| 00:18.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] |
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| 00:23.50 | rwhitby | rwhitby.net should be up again now - we had a router hardware failure |
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| 00:42.38 | jadams | how could I find a list of known-working applications on OpenEmbedded? |
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| 00:57.35 | galexande | jadams, openembedded.org |
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| 01:39.47 | ChooseOpen | . |
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| 02:18.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
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| 04:18.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_Local_Groups:_Detroit]] |
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| 04:27.13 | ferric | moo. |
| 04:28.48 | Linux_Galore_ | meow |
| 04:32.07 | ferric | what's new on the neo side of things? |
| 04:32.17 | SpeedEvil | Litle. |
| 04:32.21 | SpeedEvil | Since when? |
| 04:32.49 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ChooseOp@m0d5e36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 04:33.05 | ferric | last night, I guess. :) |
| 04:33.35 | ferric | I got the YES_I_DO email. is this because there's not enough phones to go around for the first batch any info on that? |
| 04:34.38 | happycube | no |
| 04:35.01 | ferric | ah |
| 04:35.04 | happycube | it's because they wanted to warn people about it's software status |
| 04:35.10 | happycube | i.e. not ready for end-users |
| 04:35.10 | Jason1 | no more like they want to sure you know what you are getting into |
| 04:35.10 | SpeedEvil | It's as there were not enouvh cautions on the page saying 'this isn't a working phone'. |
| 04:35.41 | happycube | yup |
| 04:36.01 | ferric | yeah, I think all that iPhone killer BS from slashdot etc. drove too many idiots to the phone. |
| 04:36.08 | daMaestro | lol |
| 04:36.45 | summatusmentis | there's absolutely nothing wrong with hype, although it is pretty premature |
| 04:37.59 | ferric | what's wrong with hype is the fact that now the FIC team is busy dealing with telling 75% of people that plonked down $300 that the phone isn't ready |
| 04:38.14 | ferric | as oppposed to shipping phones to people who knew what they were getting. |
| 04:38.23 | SpeedEvil | It's an automated email. |
| 04:38.33 | SpeedEvil | The phones ar enot ready for shipping anyway. |
| 04:38.38 | SpeedEvil | There is no extra delay. |
| 04:38.47 | *** join/#openmoko ChooseOpen (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 04:38.49 | ferric | SpeedEvil: i was just talking about the overload due to wayyy too many orders. |
| 04:38.58 | ferric | SpeedEvil: what extra delay? |
| 04:40.10 | holycow | you can't control the slashbots, diggiots, redidiots |
| 04:40.22 | holycow | you release a piece of news you run the risk of running into those crowds |
| 04:40.38 | ferric | no, but you can control sean going to major press peeps and touting the iPhone iller. :) |
| 04:41.27 | holycow | well if you mean the attention will mess up your chances of getting onein time |
| 04:41.28 | holycow | sure |
| 04:41.49 | holycow | but we can always say, goddamn any attention paid to a trully open platform is a good thing |
| 04:43.00 | holycow | i think when i get the one being released in sept or whatever |
| 04:43.19 | holycow | the first thing i'm doing is cracking open the case and remounting the innards in a clamshell dealie with a keyboard |
| 04:44.18 | ferric | hmm. |
| 04:45.16 | ChooseOpen | holycow: do you have a clamshell case in mind? |
| 04:46.25 | holycow | ChooseOpen, i did find some places that do custom things like that on the wiki, i was thinking of mounting it sideways so that you can thumbtype |
| 04:46.43 | SpeedEvil | A custom case is half the battle. |
| 04:46.56 | SpeedEvil | The rest of the problem is the keyboard. |
| 04:47.00 | holycow | yeah |
| 04:47.08 | ChooseOpen | holycow: Sounds interesting. Yeah the stuff in the Wiki about custom case manufacturing is very interesting |
| 04:47.10 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: how so? |
| 04:47.14 | holycow | there is another option to sorta fake it without having too much custom stuff to build |
| 04:47.30 | holycow | sec lemme find the smartphoen i was looking at the other day |
| 04:47.33 | ljp | can always use cardboard |
| 04:47.35 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: keyboards aren't quite trivial. |
| 04:47.45 | holycow | ljp, actually indeed you can. |
| 04:47.47 | holycow | even wood |
| 04:47.50 | summatusmentis | ah, I see |
| 04:47.55 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: and the rubber bits are not quite as easy to make. |
| 04:48.10 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: oh, yeah, I guess that makes sense |
| 04:48.11 | ChooseOpen | You would need to find someone selling a embedded keyboard as a component. |
| 04:48.13 | SpeedEvil | I'm planning on adding buttons inside the case - using capacitive touch sensors |
| 04:49.08 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: insdie the case? |
| 04:49.21 | summatusmentis | s/insdie/inside/ |
| 04:49.22 | holycow | okay i know i COULD build this even from wood if i had a kb |
| 04:49.26 | holycow | http://www.amazon.co.uk/i-mate-K-JAM-Pocket-Mobile-Phone/dp/B000B838H8/ref=pd_sxp_grid_pt_0_1/026-4497544-1829248 |
| 04:49.34 | holycow | in that type of design you don't need to take the moko apart |
| 04:49.34 | summatusmentis | s/DT/EDT/ |
| 04:49.46 | holycow | you just create a 'housing' for the moko and its housing |
| 04:49.58 | holycow | and the housing wraps around the moko, the kb is just underneath it |
| 04:50.07 | ChooseOpen | holycow: I have that phone. At T-mobile its called the "T-Mobile MDA" |
| 04:50.10 | holycow | it would double the depth of the thing but i wouldn't care |
| 04:50.26 | holycow | oh and the neat thing would be you could swap kb's |
| 04:50.32 | holycow | like you could have a qwerty |
| 04:50.37 | holycow | and then you could have a bamer pad |
| 04:50.38 | holycow | lol |
| 04:50.43 | holycow | ChooseOpen, googling |
| 04:50.47 | Linux_Galore_ | Asus eee http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsid=13177 |
| 04:51.07 | holycow | ChooseOpen, aha! nice :) |
| 04:51.13 | holycow | yeah thats exactly wha ti was thinking |
| 04:51.24 | holycow | and since moko is using x, getting x to swap layout should be simple no? |
| 04:52.09 | holycow | ChooseOpen, oh you know what? |
| 04:52.10 | holycow | ha! |
| 04:52.12 | ChooseOpen | holycow: I wanna see how the Neo comapares in size to this device. It is already very thick as it is |
| 04:52.14 | *** part/#openmoko mil_ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 04:52.15 | holycow | i'll buy one of those on ebay |
| 04:52.20 | holycow | and put the guts of moko into it! |
| 04:52.42 | holycow | *oood* |
| 04:52.44 | holycow | *ding* |
| 04:52.49 | ChooseOpen | holycow: What? |
| 04:52.50 | holycow | i think we have just solved that issue |
| 04:53.02 | holycow | ChooseOpen, yeah i will by one like yours off of ebay for cheap |
| 04:53.10 | holycow | and put the guts of the moko into that |
| 04:53.13 | ChooseOpen | holycow: good idea. |
| 04:54.11 | ChooseOpen | holycow: I just dont know how the dimensions compare. Is the Neo screen bigger that the MDA? |
| 04:54.31 | holycow | not exactly sure |
| 04:54.39 | holycow | we'll cross that bridge when we get there |
| 04:55.13 | ChooseOpen | holycow: :) Im sure you can cram it in there one way or another. No one said it had to look pretty :) |
| 04:55.34 | holycow | totally |
| 04:55.40 | holycow | dremmel solves all problems |
| 04:55.41 | holycow | lol |
| 04:55.59 | ChooseOpen | holycow: You are going to be one of those guys with a bunch of Neo parts duck-taped together :) |
| 04:56.06 | holycow | rofl :) |
| 04:56.17 | holycow | frankly i like my gadgets look used |
| 04:56.20 | holycow | i hate posers |
| 04:56.21 | holycow | :) |
| 04:56.24 | ChooseOpen | LOL |
| 04:56.37 | holycow | *ding* |
| 04:56.44 | holycow | and i just figured out the iphone allure |
| 04:56.46 | holycow | posers |
| 04:56.56 | holycow | oh thats a perfect way to position moko or open source platforms |
| 04:57.05 | holycow | the anti poser slant |
| 04:57.06 | holycow | sweet |
| 04:57.48 | ChooseOpen | hehe |
| 04:58.33 | Linux_Galore | its going to be hard for me to move to an openmoko from my N95, todays a good example I took half a dozen pictures |
| 04:59.01 | holycow | i bought my motorola 620 because of the camera and quad band |
| 04:59.08 | holycow | i never take photos anymore |
| 04:59.16 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: Carry a real camera if you want to take pictures... |
| 04:59.18 | Linux_Galore | the iPhone wont cut it for me either the DC is a lower quality unit with no focus or flash |
| 04:59.57 | *** part/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 05:00.12 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: I have a Nikon D80 but thats serious kit and is far from pocketable |
| 05:00.27 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: LOL, details.... |
| 05:00.44 | holycow | rofl @ details comment |
| 05:02.00 | holycow | for me interactivity with the unit is important + open platform |
| 05:02.20 | Linux_Galore | I cant wait till the yuppie clubbers who purchased a iPhone find out they cant take any pictures at parties because there is no flash |
| 05:02.31 | Linux_Galore | to find* |
| 05:02.37 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: All is not lost, the next gen devices from FIC *may* include a camera... |
| 05:02.58 | holycow | i need a kb and other types of interfaces but those that exist now are on closed platforms on which you can't do anything |
| 05:03.33 | holycow | having python around on it at minimum will superb. i don't know if any sort of shell will be accessible, i imagine yes |
| 05:03.39 | Linux_Galore | holycow: my N95 works with just about everything so far, I have a BT fold up keyboard |
| 05:03.47 | holycow | if so having ssh to log into networks will be great for when i'm on the road |
| 05:03.59 | Linux_Galore | holycow: and I have putty |
| 05:04.00 | holycow | Linux_Galore, *nod* i'm googling it now |
| 05:04.14 | holycow | well the fact you are running putty means its running windows mobile |
| 05:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 05:04.20 | holycow | which is offensive just to think about |
| 05:04.34 | Linux_Galore | holycow: no simbian has a putty client |
| 05:04.42 | holycow | ah it does? |
| 05:05.02 | holycow | aha i see the nokia n95 |
| 05:05.06 | Linux_Galore | yep, someone posted the sourceforge link to me in here about 3 weeks ago |
| 05:05.10 | holycow | what kind of kb do you have for it? |
| 05:05.20 | ChooseOpen | holycow: Put your Neo in this: |
| 05:05.20 | ChooseOpen | http://www.drs-ts.com/scorpion-htu-ek.htm |
| 05:05.21 | Linux_Galore | holycow: I have the Nokia unit |
| 05:05.31 | holycow | see with the nokia usb port i can even put a usb to ethernet adapter and diagnose network issues |
| 05:05.45 | ChooseOpen | "most cost-efficient solution for the battlefield" |
| 05:05.48 | holycow | chose haha! |
| 05:06.46 | holycow | Linux_Galore, url? i'm not googling anything on it |
| 05:06.51 | holycow | on kb i mean |
| 05:06.58 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 05:07.31 | Linux_Galore | holycow: http://770.fs-security.com/maemo-bt-plugin/770keyboard-small-white.jpg |
| 05:07.41 | ChooseOpen | holycow: There are a bunch of them...."Portable Bluetooth Keyboard" |
| 05:07.45 | Linux_Galore | su-8w keyboard |
| 05:07.48 | holycow | aha like that |
| 05:07.51 | holycow | gotcha |
| 05:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 05:08.09 | Linux_Galore | holycow: no drivers needed they are loaded by defaut |
| 05:08.22 | holycow | i had one like that for my old ipaq i never used |
| 05:08.51 | ChooseOpen | http://www.mobiletechreview.com/tips/freedom-bluetooth-keyboard.htm |
| 05:09.29 | holycow | speaking of mobile units i just ordered this: |
| 05:09.30 | holycow | http://www.geekstuff4u.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=521 |
| 05:10.05 | ChooseOpen | wow. 1.28 pounds! |
| 05:10.30 | ChooseOpen | that thing is HOT! |
| 05:10.45 | Linux_Galore | holycow: Im waiting for the Toshiba R500 to come out |
| 05:10.52 | codyl | holycow, cool shit! |
| 05:11.00 | codyl | "LINUX/PACK OS" ..? |
| 05:11.11 | holycow | yeah the cpu is only 800 mhz but next year intel will have true 45 nanometer cpus for the umpc market at much better performance/heat dissipation ratio |
| 05:11.14 | holycow | codyl, yup |
| 05:11.19 | holycow | no FUCKING microsoft anymore |
| 05:11.31 | codyl | holycow, what comes on it? suse? ubuntu ? |
| 05:11.34 | holycow | Linux_Galore, googling, never heard of that |
| 05:11.44 | holycow | codyl, nothing it comes with a mandriva pack but its all intel chipset |
| 05:11.47 | Linux_Galore | http://www.mobilewhack.com/toshiba-r500-portaga---worlds-thinnest-notebook-series/ |
| 05:11.49 | holycow | any distro will install by default |
| 05:12.05 | holycow | i don't know what issues i will have with the touchscreen however |
| 05:12.15 | holycow | and i expect the thumbscanner not to work but i'm not going to use it |
| 05:12.21 | holycow | everything else will work by default for sure |
| 05:12.34 | Linux_Galore | holycow: there are companies who make dedicated Linux UMPC touch screen systems |
| 05:12.49 | holycow | Linux_Galore, oh thats a neato laptop |
| 05:12.50 | codyl | holycow, wacom drivers are good on linux |
| 05:12.59 | Linux_Galore | holycow: one is based in the USA too, someone did a demo of one at our LUG about 3 years ago |
| 05:13.02 | holycow | i actually wanted to buy this laptop but i got tired of carying laptops around: |
| 05:13.21 | holycow | http://www.mobilewhack.com/toshiba-r500-portaga---worlds-thinnest-notebook-series/ |
| 05:13.24 | SpeedEvil | 6 hour life. |
| 05:13.26 | holycow | look at the bettery life |
| 05:13.29 | holycow | 14 hours |
| 05:13.33 | SpeedEvil | Not bad. |
| 05:13.48 | holycow | oh sorry wrong link |
| 05:13.48 | holycow | sec |
| 05:13.51 | Linux_Galore | SpeedEvil: also has a built in optical drive |
| 05:13.52 | holycow | http://www.dynamism.com/t5/main.shtml |
| 05:14.19 | Linux_Galore | most of the small portable stuff around 1kg Ive been seeing has no optical drive |
| 05:14.34 | holycow | panasonic t5 ... my boss has a w5 with cdrom but its still too big so i decided on the fujitsu |
| 05:14.52 | Linux_Galore | thats why I like the r500, its around 1kg and has a optical drive |
| 05:14.59 | holycow | Linux_Galore, well i use linux exclusively, there is no need for a cdrom anymore, its a dead technology imho |
| 05:15.17 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 05:15.21 | holycow | i don't really remember the last time i used a cdrom unit except to watch a dvd |
| 05:15.23 | Linux_Galore | holycow: I always carry a bootable cd for when things break |
| 05:15.42 | holycow | i use usb memory sticks for that, but i know what you mean |
| 05:15.46 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: linux doesnt break :) |
| 05:15.50 | Linux_Galore | holycow: watch a dvd movie while on the move |
| 05:16.06 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: Ive had linux break on me a few times now |
| 05:16.07 | holycow | well that the thing, i don't care about dvds on cdrom media |
| 05:16.12 | holycow | i can find any movie i want online for free |
| 05:16.29 | ChooseOpen | Linux_Galore: Must be a problem between the seat and the keyboard... j/k |
| 05:16.31 | holycow | but even that is too boring ... |
| 05:16.33 | codyl | holycow, all hail the mighty powerful tubes |
| 05:16.35 | Linux_Galore | holycow: its a dvd rom in the r500 |
| 05:16.51 | holycow | codyl, yup |
| 05:16.58 | Linux_Galore | ChooseOpen: no ext3 file corruptions |
| 05:17.06 | holycow | heh |
| 05:17.11 | holycow | funny you mention ext3 |
| 05:17.16 | holycow | i've read for years its a great fs |
| 05:17.22 | holycow | i've beein using reiser forever |
| 05:17.27 | Linux_Galore | holycow: it is untill things break |
| 05:17.33 | holycow | so hans gets nabbed and i switched to ext3 |
| 05:17.41 | holycow | i swear its a total piece of crap |
| 05:17.53 | Linux_Galore | holycow: I prefere xfs personally, I havent had on machine corrupt yet |
| 05:17.59 | holycow | completely unreliable ... obviously i go through a lot of power shutdowns :) |
| 05:18.45 | holycow | yeah i just didn't realise how good reiser is, i've put machines through most horrendeous power shutdowns, you know hit a power switch and go home and not a single problem in at least 5 years |
| 05:18.47 | Linux_Galore | one* |
| 05:18.55 | holycow | today i had a powersurge here and this box needed an fsck |
| 05:19.21 | holycow | but now i need to find another fs, xfs looks good, so does jfs |
| 05:19.32 | Linux_Galore | holycow: all my servers run xfs, had a few go down during brown outs without any issues |
| 05:19.38 | holycow | there is a new fs by oracle that is starting to mature, btrfs or something |
| 05:19.51 | holycow | Linux_Galore, *nod* i'll research that some more |
| 05:20.06 | holycow | ext3 needs to simply die :) |
| 05:20.07 | Linux_Galore | holycow: xfs is very mature |
| 05:20.25 | Linux_Galore | holycow: ext4 is on the horizon |
| 05:21.13 | holycow | yeah, i'm not holding my breath tho |
| 05:21.19 | Linux_Galore | SGi created xfs and the fs has been used on big iron systems for over 14 years |
| 05:21.35 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 05:22.00 | holycow | thing about big iron is it doesn't live in a power unstable environment |
| 05:22.04 | Linux_Galore | holycow: zfs is the one to keep an eye on, its very hard to corrupt the data |
| 05:22.08 | holycow | big iron has lots and lots of power backups |
| 05:22.25 | codyl | copy-on-write ;-) |
| 05:22.44 | holycow | i gotta find a fs that can work under unstable power conditions |
| 05:23.07 | holycow | Linux_Galore, heh it will be interesting to see what happens if it is licenced under gpl3 |
| 05:23.09 | Linux_Galore | I like how with zfs you can just add a drive and its added to the system on the fly |
| 05:23.15 | holycow | that could screw up linus a bit :) |
| 05:23.25 | Linux_Galore | scalable drive poling |
| 05:23.29 | Linux_Galore | pooling* |
| 05:23.36 | holycow | yeah thats neat, kind of like ram |
| 05:23.42 | holycow | no one partitions ram :) |
| 05:23.45 | myk_ | Linux_Galore: what's the status of ZFS on Linux? last i heard it's been controversial |
| 05:23.57 | holycow | scalable pooling will be great on raid setups |
| 05:24.06 | Linux_Galore | myk_: you can use it only in user space (fuse) |
| 05:24.06 | Ycros | I hear there's a somewhat working FUSE implementation |
| 05:24.17 | Linux_Galore | its working but isnt mature |
| 05:24.27 | holycow | yeah i read that too Ycros |
| 05:24.55 | Linux_Galore | zfs will never be fully ported to Linux because its not like a normal file system, its a complete drive software stack from top to bottom |
| 05:24.59 | holycow | its done over fuse because of licencing issues |
| 05:25.06 | holycow | or so i thought |
| 05:25.18 | holycow | Linux_Galore, ah really? |
| 05:25.33 | Linux_Galore | holycow: yeah, the way Linux works and solaris are very different |
| 05:26.07 | holycow | i remember the reiser discussions, lkml people don't like to think of the fs as a simple layer |
| 05:26.15 | Linux_Galore | holycow: imagine a single bit of software that replaces everything the kernel needs to manage a hardisk |
| 05:26.22 | holycow | they really hated reisers ability to extend via plugins |
| 05:26.46 | holycow | Linux_Galore, *nod* gotcha |
| 05:26.51 | holycow | thats very interesting indeed |
| 05:27.17 | Linux_Galore | holycow: all the scsi ide stuff not needed |
| 05:27.40 | holycow | lol |
| 05:27.45 | quinton | holycow, you actually switched filesystems because Reiser got accused? |
| 05:27.49 | holycow | replacing that would be a bonus i think :) |
| 05:28.05 | holycow | quinton, yep, if hans aint working on it, no one is working on it |
| 05:28.08 | wiml | wait, so zfs doesn't run on top of a generic block-device abstraction?? |
| 05:28.12 | Linux_Galore | holycow: to be honest that would be a good thing, Linux ide, scsi managment is piss poor |
| 05:28.27 | holycow | reiser is a very peculiar project, its the result of one very unique genious |
| 05:28.39 | Ycros | zfs is awesome |
| 05:28.46 | quinton | oh, i didn't realize he was so important to it |
| 05:28.52 | Ycros | holycow, reiserfs is awesome in some ways |
| 05:29.02 | Linux_Galore | quinton: yeah Hans is reiserfs |
| 05:29.23 | Linux_Galore | reiserfs 4 though is a dog, its too cpu intensive |
| 05:29.25 | holycow | Ycros, i think reiser really had a huge potential, but the thing about hans is kind of like the thing about linux |
| 05:29.32 | holycow | both are geniouses in their own right |
| 05:29.43 | holycow | and both are extremely smart probably smarter than most people |
| 05:29.50 | Ycros | heh |
| 05:30.17 | holycow | but what happens in hanses case from someones descritptions ... is that because he is smarter than most people |
| 05:30.17 | holycow | most people cannot really understand what he is saying |
| 05:30.17 | myk_ | Linux_Galore: might linux be modified to accommodate zfs's different model? |
| 05:30.20 | Ycros | that could be true |
| 05:30.44 | Ycros | is zfs living out in user space such a bad thing? |
| 05:30.47 | Linux_Galore | holycow: Hans did a really good article about file systems and how they work, its a must read for compsc people |
| 05:30.48 | holycow | so he ended up as a result having free reign to have opinions on things where he really didn't have any expertice in and kinda floated into the 'jerk zone' where its just hard to communicate with him |
| 05:31.03 | holycow | so hans really created an amazing product but alienated pretty much everyone |
| 05:31.08 | holycow | thus if hans is gone, so is reiser |
| 05:31.15 | holycow | its based on ideas and insights only he had |
| 05:31.53 | Linux_Galore | myk_: its very complex and also the way Linus and his crew view how Linux should work (flat system space not stacked like zfs) I doubt we will see it properly ported |
| 05:31.57 | holycow | Linux_Galore, i really wish none of the horrible nina reiser happend for altruistic and self serving reasons |
| 05:32.01 | Ycros | he's might come back |
| 05:32.04 | Ycros | he's not gone gone |
| 05:32.21 | holycow | true innocent until proven guilty |
| 05:32.23 | daMaestro | wow, this channel was dead for about 2-3 hours |
| 05:32.27 | daMaestro | nice to see there are actually people again |
| 05:32.37 | Linux_Galore | yeah, I came home lol |
| 05:32.38 | Ycros | but he's in jail anyway |
| 05:32.51 | Ycros | nevermind the other guy involved confessed to murdering a few people |
| 05:33.04 | Linux_Galore | Hans could still work on the project from jail |
| 05:33.07 | holycow | Linux_Galore, right *nod* i think i understand the architectural problems |
| 05:33.12 | holycow | i thought it was mostly a licencing issue |
| 05:33.17 | holycow | Linux_Galore, lol! |
| 05:33.20 | sparq | Linux_Galore: Not in California jails |
| 05:33.23 | holycow | if only they woul dlet him ... |
| 05:33.23 | holycow | lol |
| 05:33.37 | Linux_Galore | Reiserfs 4, Jail house edition |
| 05:33.54 | Ycros | that wired article about him recently was really interesting |
| 05:33.57 | daMaestro | sparq, no... only if you are paris |
| 05:34.11 | holycow | daMaestro, lol |
| 05:34.21 | sparq | Heh. |
| 05:34.34 | Ycros | for anyone who hasn't read it: http://www.wired.com/techbiz/people/magazine/15-07/ff_hansreiser |
| 05:34.49 | sparq | daMaestro: Actually, I would be happy if LA had let her buy her way out of jail. The city could use the money. |
| 05:34.52 | daMaestro | it's true.. they'd lock away Einstein; but not a pop-sexy blonde with money |
| 05:35.09 | daMaestro | sparq, yeah.. sadly she will make a lot of 0's from this |
| 05:35.12 | daMaestro | that is more what makes me sick |
| 05:35.27 | holycow | already did |
| 05:35.35 | holycow | that larry king interview was millions from what i read |
| 05:36.21 | sparq | holycow: You know how Lee Baca balanced the budget for LA County Corrections, right? |
| 05:36.32 | Linux_Galore | there is a really interesting book out, The blonding of society , or something, talks about how science etc is more aimed at the bonde idiot culture and basic research is suffering |
| 05:36.38 | holycow | is this the story about raising youth to adult court? |
| 05:36.44 | sparq | holycow: After Bush took away all the federal support |
| 05:36.59 | holycow | probably not, how was it done? |
| 05:37.03 | sparq | holycow: Nope. He just started letting people go. |
| 05:37.16 | holycow | well the u.s. has a big problem |
| 05:37.28 | holycow | and its a cultural problem, you guys will throw anyone into jail |
| 05:37.31 | sparq | He took a random selection of inmates, and just let the walk away because there weren't enough beds. |
| 05:37.36 | holycow | per capita only china has you guys beat |
| 05:38.07 | sparq | holycow: Indeed. Actually, I think per capita, we have more prisoners than China. They have more executions. |
| 05:38.09 | holycow | i would say that yeah you guys won't have a choice soon *nod* |
| 05:38.09 | Linux_Galore | government research agencies have trippled their middle management in 10 years with basic research halving, go figure |
| 05:38.27 | ChooseOpen | Neo on Ebay already: |
| 05:38.28 | ChooseOpen | http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170129612124&ru=http://search.ebay.com:80/170129612124_W0QQ_trksidZm37QQfromZR40QQfviZ1 |
| 05:38.34 | holycow | sparq, thats an interesting solution, i like it actually ... as long is not murderers and child molesters |
| 05:39.29 | wiml | yeah, I kind of like it too. anyone who's not likely to be a violent repeat offender, maybe. |
| 05:40.15 | Linux_Galore | Just realised you can get a Toshiba Libretto cheap right now, the things are tiny |
| 05:40.17 | holycow | ChooseOpen, lol @ ebay no kiddin? |
| 05:40.21 | holycow | 416$ |
| 05:40.35 | Linux_Galore | they run Linux fine |
| 05:40.40 | ChooseOpen | they didnt even ship yet, and people are already selling them |
| 05:40.52 | holycow | Linux_Galore, how tiny? googling |
| 05:41.58 | Linux_Galore | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Libretto_(notebook) |
| 05:42.34 | daMaestro | umm that seller is shady |
| 05:43.05 | holycow | http://www.pcmag.com/slideshow_viewer/0,1205,l=150285&s=1565&a=150314&po=3,00.asp?p=y |
| 05:43.11 | holycow | ah yeah its pretty tiny indeed |
| 05:43.28 | holycow | the reason i ordered the fujitsu is it also has that tablet mode |
| 05:43.38 | wiml | daMaestro: why are they shady? (curious) |
| 05:43.44 | Linux_Galore | you can pick up a Libretto (old stock) U100-2** series for less than US$400 |
| 05:43.52 | holycow | i'm going to be going to my fav sushi restaurant and instead of reading a paper using blender via stylus instead |
| 05:43.58 | holycow | thats pretty darned cool tho |
| 05:44.03 | daMaestro | if you track their feedback.. it's for thinks like $1.75 grandcentral invite |
| 05:44.09 | daMaestro | things* |
| 05:44.17 | daMaestro | feedback from users that don't exist anymore |
| 05:44.24 | ChooseOpen | daMaestro: I submitted a question asking how he knows that FIC is going to ship his phone. |
| 05:44.34 | daMaestro | etc... that level of feedback could easily be 'spoofed' or 'netted' |
| 05:44.51 | Linux_Galore | holycow: the US$400-500 price laos includes a DVD/Docking station |
| 05:44.57 | Linux_Galore | also* |
| 05:46.10 | daMaestro | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,1676362,00.asp ... now this is cool |
| 05:46.35 | holycow | daMaestro, yes EXCEPT |
| 05:46.37 | holycow | i tried that |
| 05:46.40 | holycow | i also tried this: |
| 05:47.04 | holycow | http://www.geekstuff4u.com/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=&products_id=455 |
| 05:47.06 | holycow | same specs |
| 05:47.08 | Linux_Galore | Linux toshi 2.6.22-7-generic #1 SMP Mon Jun 25 17:33:14 GMT 2007 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 05:47.19 | holycow | the problem with BOTH of those is the goddamned kb |
| 05:47.23 | Linux_Galore | dam Im liking Gutsy |
| 05:47.30 | holycow | i was gonna buy the sony first and wing it but i can't use the kb |
| 05:47.46 | holycow | its just bloody impossible to even type one word without a typo :/ |
| 05:47.59 | holycow | both really great umpc platforms tho, just not terribly usefull |
| 05:48.08 | Linux_Galore | holycow: OQO though I though was a Windows Vista Portable Edition machine |
| 05:48.13 | holycow | the fujitsu actually had a kb you can thumb type with or scratch type iwth |
| 05:48.16 | Linux_Galore | thought* |
| 05:48.24 | holycow | well the sony one runs vista too |
| 05:48.39 | holycow | it was actually fairly responsive, apps just loaded slowly |
| 05:49.25 | Linux_Galore | holycow: some pretty kick as dual-core 1-1.3kg machines abut to hit the shelves |
| 05:49.25 | daMaestro | yeah.. if i was going to buy something that ultra mobile i'd want the solid state disks |
| 05:49.28 | kiney | counter |
| 05:49.29 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in 2 days 06:10:30 (2.257±1.0 days) (1741;246) |
| 05:49.36 | holycow | Linux_Galore, yeah *nod* |
| 05:49.55 | holycow | daMaestro, *nod* totally |
| 05:50.13 | holycow | the problem with solid state disks is you gotta get the os to keep everything in ram all the time |
| 05:50.16 | Linux_Galore | holycow: dual core cpu in a machine around 1Kg, that is serious grunt in your hand |
| 05:50.25 | holycow | which is a special config i don't want to deal with |
| 05:50.37 | holycow | i'm waiting for the ibm permanent ram stuff they are working on |
| 05:50.48 | holycow | once that happens no ram or hds, just solid state storage |
| 05:50.56 | daMaestro | http://www.hardwarezone.com/news/view.php?id=7470&cid=9 is something i had taken a look at |
| 05:50.56 | holycow | Linux_Galore, *nod* |
| 05:51.13 | holycow | yeah totally, that would rock. you could like do serious 3d rendering on that or video editing or whatever |
| 05:51.20 | daMaestro | target price range is ~$400 for that |
| 05:52.01 | Linux_Galore | daMaestro: wont see it will 2006 though |
| 05:52.05 | Linux_Galore | 2008* |
| 05:52.11 | holycow | yeah but again its flash solid state, you gotta watch the writes and your swap has to be in ram at all times |
| 05:52.31 | sagacis | the three "e's" |
| 05:52.40 | Linux_Galore | daMaestro: Im getting a N800 bugger it lol |
| 05:52.43 | sagacis | Easy, Excellent and Excellent |
| 05:53.17 | holycow | sagacis, hehe |
| 05:53.28 | Linux_Galore | must admit the asus eee is allot of machine for the price |
| 05:53.34 | holycow | well with openmoko in that kb pullout clamshell we talked about, i will get decent smartphone capability |
| 05:53.44 | sagacis | That's from the website |
| 05:53.47 | holycow | and with a umpc like the fujitsu that will replace my desktop for about 98% of all things |
| 05:54.16 | daMaestro | is anyone serious about doing the hardware mods? |
| 05:54.24 | holycow | i will have one 10 tb fileserver at work and at home for massive storage and such and other things but i don't think ill have a desktop any more |
| 05:54.26 | daMaestro | i've not been a huge hardware hacker.. but this might be fun |
| 05:54.30 | holycow | daMaestro, i'm 100% serious |
| 05:54.34 | holycow | i will spend money on it |
| 05:54.38 | daMaestro | and i have a few people i'm willing to work with here in town |
| 05:54.43 | holycow | i want it because it will make my job easier |
| 05:54.46 | daMaestro | we all are getting the gta01 |
| 05:55.01 | Linux_Galore | holycow: you dont really need a big assed machine if you run Linux as a portable, if it runs X11 you can just export everything from another machine in the house or office (thats what I will be doing with the N800) |
| 05:55.23 | holycow | i'm really only interested in the formfactor of the case daMaestro the guts can be as is for my needs. what kind of things are you interested in? |
| 05:55.59 | holycow | Linux_Galore, yeah thats what i will be experimenting with ... the superb thing about x11 protocol is all of a sudden the difference between a desktop/server and local/remote dissapear |
| 05:56.12 | Linux_Galore | holycow: dont forget with Linux you can EXPORT_CPU -> Hand_Held |
| 05:56.25 | holycow | the n800 is a really cool device i'd love to get one eventually |
| 05:56.31 | daMaestro | something that i can irc and troubleshoot with completely mobile... i might end up just getting a cloth bluetooth keyboard.. but it would be nice to have a single unit |
| 05:56.45 | daMaestro | i also want to be able to run mame... |
| 05:56.51 | daMaestro | and doom... and most likely quake |
| 05:56.52 | holycow | daMaestro, did you see my post about what i wanted to do? |
| 05:56.57 | daMaestro | no |
| 05:57.02 | holycow | oh sec |
| 05:57.08 | daMaestro | i'm not on the mailing lists.. if that is where you sent it |
| 05:57.20 | holycow | no no here |
| 05:57.29 | holycow | this channel this conversation a while back :) |
| 05:57.30 | holycow | sec |
| 05:57.41 | Linux_Galore | the N800 for me wlll be a big assed fancy remote control for all my Linux box's so i dont have to keep running back to my main machine at home or work |
| 05:58.04 | holycow | Linux_Galore, right |
| 05:58.10 | holycow | thats exactly what i was tinking for the neo |
| 05:58.12 | holycow | :) |
| 05:58.23 | holycow | and the fujitsu too |
| 05:58.29 | holycow | daMaestro, here is what i'm going to do: |
| 05:58.32 | holycow | http://www.amazon.co.uk/i-mate-K-JAM-Pocket-Mobile-Phone/dp/B000B838H8/ref=pd_sim_dbs_ce_4_img/026-4497544-1829248 |
| 05:58.38 | holycow | i'm going to buy one of those on ebay used |
| 05:58.38 | Linux_Galore | you can imagine me sitting on the can playing a youtube videos lol |
| 05:58.47 | holycow | and stick the moko guts into it and hook up the kb |
| 05:59.28 | holycow | Linux_Galore, i play games on my cel while on the can ... its not that radical of an idea |
| 05:59.29 | holycow | hehe :) |
| 05:59.39 | Linux_Galore | i-mate is pretty small and the screen sux, next door neighbour has one |
| 05:59.52 | holycow | well that style of phone |
| 05:59.59 | Ycros | anyone in here could be IRCing while on the can, and you'd never know |
| 06:00.00 | Ycros | >.> |
| 06:00.04 | daMaestro | holycow, yeah... i want to actually spec out some hardware for a post-market retro of the neo case |
| 06:00.05 | holycow | i gotta check out the sizes, i just got the idea while talking to you :) |
| 06:00.05 | holycow | lol |
| 06:00.32 | holycow | Ycros, and WE DON'T WANT TO KNOW |
| 06:00.33 | holycow | lol! |
| 06:00.45 | Linux_Galore | holycow: wife busted me the day I got my N95 sshing into one of the machines at work and patching a perl script lol |
| 06:00.54 | holycow | Linux_Galore, ha! |
| 06:00.55 | Linux_Galore | while in the can |
| 06:00.59 | holycow | true g33k :) |
| 06:01.04 | holycow | thats uber l33t |
| 06:01.21 | daMaestro | hacking on perl does make the stool loose |
| 06:01.21 | daMaestro | lol |
| 06:01.28 | holycow | hehehe |
| 06:01.29 | holycow | i hate perl |
| 06:01.35 | *** part/#openmoko ChooseOpen (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 06:01.36 | Linux_Galore | php is evil |
| 06:01.44 | holycow | indeed it is |
| 06:02.14 | daMaestro | i think a considerable amount of the reason i don't care for php is because of the code that people create with it |
| 06:02.27 | daMaestro | i don't know enough about the language; but it's easy to write shit code with it |
| 06:02.31 | holycow | kids learn to code with php, indeed |
| 06:02.47 | Ycros | well, it's easy |
| 06:02.49 | Linux_Galore | daMaestro: or , you can write a 5 line function in perl that needs 40 in php |
| 06:02.53 | Ycros | and has good documentation |
| 06:03.11 | holycow | Linux_Galore, sure, and only the author will ever understand it :) |
| 06:03.13 | holycow | i kid! |
| 06:03.14 | Ycros | I don't know. heh. |
| 06:03.24 | Ycros | yeah, perl is pretty write-only |
| 06:03.25 | Ycros | :P |
| 06:03.47 | Linux_Galore | I hate to be the poor bastard who has to fix the servers Ive been working on when I leave |
| 06:03.53 | holycow | heh |
| 06:04.06 | holycow | i hope you document everything? |
| 06:04.07 | Ycros | where do you work so I know not to get a job there |
| 06:04.15 | holycow | hehe |
| 06:04.24 | Linux_Galore | holycow: doc...um-ment what is this word |
| 06:04.41 | holycow | oopsie! |
| 06:04.47 | daMaestro | most every time i've worked with perl in a corp env. it's been nasty.. "it needs to be done yesterday" scripts |
| 06:04.50 | Linux_Galore | holycow: Im a comment nazi to be honest |
| 06:05.08 | daMaestro | so i've almost always moved to porting everything over to HTML::Mason and just calling it good |
| 06:05.08 | daMaestro | lol |
| 06:05.09 | Ycros | Python is my favourite general-purpose programming language |
| 06:05.15 | Linux_Galore | I comment everything |
| 06:05.32 | daMaestro | yes, python has become my number two language; only because CPAN still rocks python |
| 06:05.37 | holycow | Ycros, mine too, hard core c people seem to hate python but its easy to get thinggs done in it |
| 06:05.46 | Linux_Galore | Im starting on ruby |
| 06:05.48 | daMaestro | CPAN owns all |
| 06:06.00 | Linux_Galore | yeah but CPAN is fsking awsome |
| 06:06.09 | holycow | ruby = pythonized perl |
| 06:06.15 | holycow | not sure what the benefits are :) |
| 06:06.23 | Ycros | python has the cheese shop |
| 06:06.32 | Ycros | and easy install |
| 06:06.35 | Ycros | ruby has gems |
| 06:06.39 | xkr47 | holycow, :) |
| 06:06.49 | holycow | oh there you are xkr47 |
| 06:06.50 | holycow | lol! |
| 06:06.54 | Linux_Galore | one thing Python doesnt have that Perl has and thats CPAN, the amount of stuff in there is just amazing |
| 06:06.55 | xkr47 | what ?-) |
| 06:07.02 | Ycros | yeah, I don't see that much difference between ruby and python, except ruby is much more perlish |
| 06:07.06 | holycow | i wondered where your python bashing went :) |
| 06:07.13 | Ycros | I've done ruby programming as wel |
| 06:07.21 | xkr47 | lol |
| 06:07.23 | daMaestro | Linux_Galore, oh.. i want to do this insane "thing"... 5 minutes later.. "it's working" |
| 06:07.28 | Ycros | Linux_Galore, python does have a lot of stuff as well though |
| 06:07.43 | daMaestro | aka... i needed to write a fully threaded recursive download monster |
| 06:07.58 | Linux_Galore | Python is catching up |
| 06:08.04 | daMaestro | use Thread::Pool; [...] done. |
| 06:08.05 | daMaestro | lol |
| 06:08.10 | Ycros | Linux_Galore, probably nowhere near as much though |
| 06:08.21 | xkr47 | use White::Space; |
| 06:08.33 | Linux_Galore | Ycros: naaw, I know allot of server geeks and they all mainly use perl |
| 06:08.40 | Ycros | Linux_Galore, aye |
| 06:08.57 | Ycros | but I know many who use python now |
| 06:08.58 | holycow | python really needs an optimized interpreter tho |
| 06:09.05 | Ycros | and yet others who use ruby |
| 06:09.12 | daMaestro | yes, i hope we get something that runs well on the neo |
| 06:09.33 | xkr47 | choosing a language is about who you are, not about what would suit the purpose best :-) |
| 06:09.33 | Ycros | holycow, it sucks that psyco only runs on i386, and is unmaintained these days |
| 06:09.41 | Linux_Galore | see who is the first to run Apache on his phone |
| 06:09.46 | Ycros | holycow, hopefully the pypy project is going to produce something awesome though |
| 06:10.00 | Linux_Galore | then ring up for support from Apache |
| 06:10.11 | holycow | python 3 is being contemplated i understand so until that has a few revisions i doubt anyone will spend time on a new python runtime |
| 06:10.25 | Ycros | python 3k is awesome |
| 06:10.31 | holycow | Ycros, never heard of pypy, googling |
| 06:11.15 | Linux_Galore | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pypy |
| 06:11.20 | wiml | I keep looking at Io (www.iolanguage.com) and thinking "man, this has GOT to be good for some sort of small-device work..." |
| 06:11.32 | Linux_Galore | all praise the great wiki gods |
| 06:11.35 | holycow | wiml, thats an interesting thought |
| 06:11.37 | holycow | *hmm* |
| 06:11.41 | Ycros | I've been looking at ocaml recently |
| 06:12.36 | Ycros | holycow, pypy can translate into native code, and has a JIT that they're working on |
| 06:13.03 | Ycros | io seems cool |
| 06:13.05 | *** part/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 06:13.14 | Ycros | lua is also popular on the lightweight languages front |
| 06:13.22 | Ycros | and/or embeddable languages |
| 06:14.09 | Ycros | stackless python is also used in quite a few games and such, because it too is lighter (and has awesome microthreading capabilities) |
| 06:15.45 | holycow | Ycros, pypy seems interesting |
| 06:16.04 | holycow | i wouldn't be surprised if we see tcl show up again for embedable stuff |
| 06:16.14 | wiml | a friend of mine has been into Squeak for the last few years ... a Squeak-based phone would be another interesting idea |
| 06:16.19 | Ycros | yeah, pypy is very interesting, and has potential |
| 06:16.19 | holycow | xotcl even has object orientedness |
| 06:16.34 | Ycros | espacially now that they've secured funding from the EU |
| 06:17.17 | holycow | wiml, i'm bookmarking io once again |
| 06:17.25 | wiml | heh |
| 06:17.25 | Ycros | someone even wrote a javascript translator for pypy for fun, so you have a python interpreter that runs on javascript code |
| 06:17.31 | holycow | anything that has lisp listed as an influence is good in my book |
| 06:17.41 | holycow | Ycros, oh cool, hehe |
| 06:18.26 | happycube | dang that must be a ton of javascript |
| 06:18.35 | Ycros | probably |
| 06:18.36 | happycube | can any browser actually run such a thing? |
| 06:18.50 | happycube | (seriously i know it's intended for recompiling python apps) |
| 06:18.53 | Ycros | it was a "just because we can" exercise |
| 06:19.12 | happycube | an interesting one too |
| 06:19.26 | Ycros | meanwhile guido and the rest of the python dev team seem content to stick with their C implementation |
| 06:19.53 | holycow | linus seems to think c is the hammer of the gods |
| 06:19.54 | holycow | :) |
| 06:20.10 | happycube | and on the seventh day the gods created dynamic languages |
| 06:20.20 | Ycros | I wouldn't mind if something like D replaced C |
| 06:20.23 | happycube | and then rested on the eighth. they ran a day late. |
| 06:20.53 | Ycros | (D is pretty awesome, and allows for inline asm/playing with pointers (optionally!), and has C-like performance) |
| 06:20.56 | holycow | on the ninth he created richard stallman, gcc and emacs |
| 06:21.26 | happycube | nah gcc came earlier, they needed it. |
| 06:21.40 | Ycros | python with a really nice jit would be awesome |
| 06:21.41 | happycube | had to port their code to run Suns. |
| 06:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko Mozillero (n=Moziller@190.36.207.249) |
| 06:22.04 | holycow | ah |
| 06:22.06 | happycube | hopefully the pypy jit'll grow up for that |
| 06:22.14 | Ycros | yep |
| 06:22.15 | *** part/#openmoko Mozillero (n=Moziller@190.36.207.249) |
| 06:22.27 | happycube | do they have more eu funding coming up? i thought it ended |
| 06:22.49 | Ycros | the whole point of the pypy project, is that if it's all written in Python, it's easy to mess with writing your own gc/jit/memory allocators |
| 06:23.11 | happycube | yeah :) |
| 06:23.33 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 06:23.54 | Ycros | yeah, but they had a review, and the project was "accepted" |
| 06:24.02 | Ycros | I don't know if that means more funding or what |
| 06:24.34 | Ycros | I've been playing with erlang, common lisp, and ocaml recently |
| 06:24.35 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@static-87-79-68-60.netcologne.de) |
| 06:24.36 | Ycros | all nice languages |
| 06:24.59 | Ycros | the thing I like about python is that for me it strikes a balance in between the worlds of functional, imperative and OO programming |
| 06:25.26 | Linux_Galore | I see asian people in my swiming pool http://curiousphotos.blogspot.com/2007/07/curious-add-on-07-14-07.html |
| 06:25.26 | holycow | i'm not a programmer i just hack away at stuff, i like python for a really stupid reason |
| 06:25.29 | holycow | i can read it |
| 06:25.37 | Ycros | YES! |
| 06:25.41 | Ycros | and that was my next point |
| 06:25.43 | holycow | not well versed on intricacies of language design tho |
| 06:25.49 | Ycros | the syntax is awesome, and there isn't much of it |
| 06:26.01 | holycow | yeah its just readable, it makes sense to me visually |
| 06:26.14 | Ycros | lisp is filled with parens, erlang has horrible prolog-inspired syntax, and OCaml has way to much of it imo |
| 06:26.29 | holycow | actually i also love list for the same reason |
| 06:26.42 | holycow | the perens really don't bother me thats just something that is taken care of by the ide |
| 06:26.50 | sparq | holycow: Try learning Scheme. It's not especially useful, but it's simple, and it will teach you a lot of the formal thinking in language design and CS. |
| 06:26.53 | Ycros | taking away braces, and letting indentation that programmers put there _anyway_ be meaningful was a brrilliant idea |
| 06:27.15 | Ycros | yeah, lisp is awesome |
| 06:27.21 | holycow | sparq, yeah its on the todo list *nod* i've been told the same |
| 06:27.29 | Linux_Galore | dont blink another slim Linux laptop rears its head http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5060055175.html |
| 06:27.34 | holycow | Ycros, actually thats not a bad idea |
| 06:27.34 | holycow | lol |
| 06:27.36 | Ycros | sparq, I avoided scheme because everyone told me it was useless for getting anything done |
| 06:27.43 | holycow | if one could take away perens in lisp and use indentation |
| 06:27.44 | holycow | *hmmm* |
| 06:27.56 | Ycros | holycow, I was talking about Python, but anyway :P |
| 06:27.59 | sparq | holycow: http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/BTLS/ |
| 06:28.05 | sparq | (good place to start |
| 06:28.10 | holycow | Ycros, i know, its still an interesyting idea for lisp :) |
| 06:28.27 | holycow | sparq, danke btw :) |
| 06:28.32 | holycow | *bookmark* |
| 06:28.40 | wiml | I don't think scheme/lisp is as useless as all that |
| 06:28.59 | Ycros | ocaml has vaguely lispish syntax, except you don't need parens around a toplevel expression, and it has an ; operator which joins expressions together (thus giving you imperative programming!) |
| 06:29.00 | wiml | but on the other hand I do use other languages most of the time, so who knows |
| 06:29.09 | Ycros | I thought the ; operator was pretty clever. |
| 06:29.15 | sparq | Ycros: It is useful, but it's not conventional. Scheme will not get you many jobs as a skill in itself. But it will teach you about CS. |
| 06:29.36 | holycow | lisp in general seems to be growing tho |
| 06:29.43 | Ycros | sparq, aye |
| 06:29.50 | holycow | all my coder friends have rediscoverd it in the last 4 or 5 years in some way |
| 06:29.58 | holycow | even as *oh cool* kind of thing |
| 06:30.09 | Ycros | I'm pretty attached to cl's loop macro though :P |
| 06:30.33 | holycow | Linux_Galore, yeah i saw that dealie from palm, its an interesting device, but i'm not exactly certain what problem they are solving with those |
| 06:30.45 | sparq | I learned it because I wanted emacs to do something. I don't remember what it was, though... ^_^ |
| 06:30.53 | holycow | Linux_Galore, palms biggest problem right now is tha tpalm os sucks but it has a bazillion legacy apps |
| 06:31.29 | holycow | Linux_Galore, i hear this fall linux kerenel is s upposed to be underpinning their new devices giving them multitasking and such finally, and running some kind of palm emu environment for their palm legacy apps, not sure |
| 06:31.47 | Linux_Galore | video of the same machine -> http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13139 |
| 06:32.30 | holycow | lisp has a bunch of bindings for things like gtk and qt, i wouldn't eventually mind learning it |
| 06:32.43 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 06:32.48 | Linux_Galore | holycow: notice now that Microsoft is moving into the hardware space more and more that companies are looking at Linux because they are just realising they have created a monster |
| 06:33.05 | Linux_Galore | Microsft is making PC's in India now |
| 06:33.11 | holycow | Linux_Galore, yeah they are learning that you haveto control the whole stack to maintain control |
| 06:33.27 | holycow | yeah i read about that, linux was making inroads and no one wanted to pay for win |
| 06:33.55 | Linux_Galore | lest all be honest the xbox is also a PC |
| 06:34.01 | Linux_Galore | lets* |
| 06:34.04 | holycow | yeah |
| 06:34.09 | Linux_Galore | thats what pissed Dell off |
| 06:34.09 | holycow | they want to stream tv and movies through that |
| 06:34.36 | Linux_Galore | the week Microsoft released the XBOX36 Micheal Dell purchased a big chunk of red hat |
| 06:34.46 | holycow | Linux_Galore, what kind of os does that palm thing run? |
| 06:34.52 | holycow | that is not appealling to me at all on any level |
| 06:35.06 | wiml | holycow: the palm thing is linux underneath |
| 06:35.12 | holycow | wiml, oh really? |
| 06:35.17 | Linux_Galore | yeah the Foleo runs Linux |
| 06:35.24 | holycow | its got that damned nipple mouse |
| 06:35.25 | holycow | wow |
| 06:35.47 | Linux_Galore | Palm have been working on a Linux solution for a few years now |
| 06:35.47 | holycow | okay it runs linux its gone up one poitn for that, but lost one poitn for the nipple mouse |
| 06:35.48 | holycow | lol |
| 06:36.19 | Linux_Galore | PalmOS just doesnt cut it anymore |
| 06:36.45 | holycow | yeah from what i've read it crashes all the time on treos |
| 06:36.48 | holycow | totally unstable |
| 06:36.48 | wiml | yeah, palmos was a pretty good fit for the old 1998-era palms |
| 06:37.02 | wiml | but not so great for modern hardware |
| 06:37.09 | holycow | oh okay i get what the foleo is |
| 06:37.31 | holycow | its basically a large palm device with apps running full time in the background, simplified to keyboard shortcuts |
| 06:37.32 | Linux_Galore | its getting to the stage were it will be Linux Hardware makers v Microsoft |
| 06:37.39 | holycow | i hope some |
| 06:37.55 | holycow | my next mobo is a gigabyte |
| 06:38.04 | holycow | appearently they have a model that officially support linux bios |
| 06:38.10 | holycow | so even there its getting interesting |
| 06:38.17 | Linux_Galore | LG,Sony,Nokia,IBM just to name a few have jumped onto the Linux bandwagon |
| 06:38.20 | holycow | tyan ships some models with linuxbios preinstalled |
| 06:38.42 | Ycros | I have a friend that loves his treo and palmOS |
| 06:38.51 | Ycros | he doesn't want to go anywhere near windows mobile |
| 06:39.11 | Linux_Galore | ooh looks the Sony PS3 tuns Linux wonder why,oooh right the XBOX360 made by Microsoft runs windows also made by Microsoft |
| 06:39.18 | holycow | Ycros, i'm exactly the same |
| 06:39.30 | holycow | i litterally feel sick when i haveto use an ms product of any kind |
| 06:39.31 | holycow | i'm not kidding |
| 06:39.36 | holycow | my stomach starts to turn |
| 06:39.52 | Linux_Galore | I wish the PSP ran Linux |
| 06:39.57 | Ycros | Linux_Galore, the PS3 can run linux, but not as it's main OS |
| 06:40.08 | Linux_Galore | Ycros: yeah I know |
| 06:40.08 | holycow | what does the ps3 run as the main os? |
| 06:40.17 | Ycros | custom sony thing |
| 06:40.25 | holycow | ug |
| 06:40.30 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:40.31 | Ycros | but it's awesome that sony let you install other operating systems on it |
| 06:40.36 | Linux_Galore | Ycros: yeah but 8 of the 9 cpu cell cores will run Linux |
| 06:40.38 | holycow | actually i saw that demo |
| 06:40.43 | Ycros | there's an "other OS" option in the menu |
| 06:40.43 | holycow | it is a neat thing |
| 06:40.52 | holycow | it would of been cooler if it was linux |
| 06:41.02 | Linux_Galore | Ycros: the Sony os will be just running as a hypervisor |
| 06:41.13 | Ycros | buying a PS3 is much cheaper than buying a dedicated cell thing |
| 06:41.17 | holycow | well actually no it wouldn't, you can't really port apps from the cel processor to x86 |
| 06:41.20 | Ycros | if you want to run/devel on the cell |
| 06:41.28 | holycow | i bet the sony os is a linux kernel |
| 06:41.35 | Ycros | it probably isn't |
| 06:41.42 | holycow | i know that ibm submitted cel process patches to linux |
| 06:41.52 | Ycros | I think their devkits are based around gcc though |
| 06:42.03 | holycow | you think they made an os specifically for gameplaying on the cel? |
| 06:42.18 | Ycros | yes |
| 06:42.21 | holycow | oh btw if anyone here from moko is listening |
| 06:42.24 | Ycros | just like with the PSP |
| 06:42.32 | Linux_Galore | there is a thing on youtube were a guy is running Linux and three PS3's as a cluster and has real time vector graphics rendering, 10 years ago you would have needed a $10mill supercomputer |
| 06:42.35 | holycow | you guys might want to market your moko at some point in time as a gaming platform |
| 06:42.39 | holycow | seriously |
| 06:42.44 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:43.06 | holycow | i'm sure thats on the drawing board ... the wiki says something about other models considered for later |
| 06:43.23 | Linux_Galore | Im talking 100% vector not partial like some graphics cards fo |
| 06:43.25 | Linux_Galore | do* |
| 06:43.42 | holycow | Linux_Galore, the big problem with the ps3 is a) you are doing clustering over tcp/ip and second ram is miniscule |
| 06:43.47 | holycow | *nod* |
| 06:43.57 | Sup3rkiddo | Linux_Galore, care to give the link? |
| 06:44.06 | Linux_Galore | Sup3rkiddo: hmm let me look |
| 06:44.20 | Ycros | yeah, I'm surprised at the amount of RAM they have |
| 06:44.32 | Ycros | then again, really lightweight OS |
| 06:44.33 | holycow | who gave me that little schemer link? |
| 06:44.39 | holycow | it turns out ther eis a little lisper book as well |
| 06:44.40 | holycow | lol |
| 06:44.45 | holycow | i think i'll be getting both |
| 06:45.24 | *** join/#openmoko drear|laptop (n=drear@nblzone-208-36.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 06:45.24 | Ycros | what was the link? |
| 06:45.24 | holycow | the iolanguage.com faq is very interesting |
| 06:45.38 | holycow | http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/matthias/BTLS/ |
| 06:45.38 | Ycros | the ram in the ps3 is supposed to be very fast though |
| 06:45.53 | holycow | also video ram is miniscule too |
| 06:46.13 | holycow | *hmmm* |
| 06:46.17 | Linux_Galore | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oLte5f34ya8&mode=related&search= |
| 06:46.25 | holycow | io could be an interesting thing to think about in a lot of applications |
| 06:46.25 | holycow | wow |
| 06:46.52 | Linux_Galore | ddr4 ram |
| 06:47.34 | Linux_Galore | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eEg7q2lk3QM |
| 06:47.48 | Linux_Galore | another example |
| 06:49.13 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 06:51.13 | *** join/#openmoko phrozen77_ (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77) |
| 06:51.17 | holycow | io has gtk bindings too *hmm* |
| 06:51.36 | aloril | (script) openmoko-gsmd: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: GSM modem documentation |
| 06:53.07 | holycow | Linux_Galore, okay that is bloody cool |
| 06:53.08 | holycow | wow |
| 06:53.46 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:55.29 | Sup3rkiddo | ok so my sponsor replied the YES_I_DO thingy, but as with all mail clients "Re" was prepended to the subject..will it cause problems |
| 06:56.20 | sparq | holycow: I think the Little Schemer is the revised edition of the Little Lisper |
| 06:56.32 | holycow | ah! |
| 06:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-130-186.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:57.03 | sparq | Supposedly, Scheme is the heir to the house of Lisp |
| 06:58.01 | holycow | well not in my book :) |
| 06:58.08 | holycow | professors seem to think so |
| 06:58.09 | holycow | hehe :) |
| 06:59.10 | holycow | Linux_Galore, that real time rendering of the street is VERY impressive |
| 06:59.31 | holycow | i used to do 3d animation, that takes A LOT of hardware to pull off |
| 06:59.40 | ynezz | what's so impresive about it? |
| 06:59.41 | holycow | appearently not any more |
| 06:59.54 | ynezz | it's slow as hell :) |
| 06:59.58 | holycow | soft shadows and light bouncing off of surfaces |
| 07:00.40 | ynezz | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:01.14 | holycow | not antialiased |
| 07:01.25 | holycow | true i can't tell if thats antialiased |
| 07:01.26 | ynezz | :) |
| 07:03.33 | ynezz | i would be impresed if neo could do that even in 320x200 |
| 07:04.20 | Linux_Galore | ynezz: most of the new graphics card can only do "partial" vector rendering |
| 07:05.22 | ynezz | ok |
| 07:05.46 | Linux_Galore | ynezz: some parts of the screen are and some isnt, doing the whole screen takes allot fo grunt |
| 07:06.00 | Linux_Galore | for games would be overkill |
| 07:06.29 | wiml | does anyone know much about the graphics accelerator in the GTA02? the SMedia 3362? |
| 07:07.38 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492806A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:09.37 | Ycros | yeah, I'd be interested in know it's capabilities |
| 07:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko ravan_ (n=ravan@59.93.87.225) |
| 07:09.46 | Ycros | it's probably on the wiki somewhere |
| 07:10.50 | ynezz | i think it's another part with nda |
| 07:11.00 | ynezz | but specs should be available |
| 07:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:12.07 | ynezz | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001074.html |
| 07:12.21 | ynezz | "open" :) |
| 07:12.41 | wiml | phooey, I was hoping they'd found an open gpu |
| 07:12.49 | wiml | super-skimpy info from the mfr: http://www.smediatech.com/product3362.htm |
| 07:13.40 | ynezz | well at least there will be sources so you can use them |
| 07:13.55 | ynezz | hope without some binary part :) |
| 07:14.55 | ynezz | anyway I don't get it why smedia can't make some censored version of their docs for distribution without nda |
| 07:15.15 | Ycros | so the next one up does h264 |
| 07:15.18 | Ycros | that would have been nice |
| 07:15.57 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492806A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:16.35 | Linux_Galore | shame intel dont have a bigger footprint on mobile devices |
| 07:16.57 | Linux_Galore | ie 3d mobile graphics |
| 07:16.57 | ynezz | they had |
| 07:19.31 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 07:20.15 | happycube | and are planning on it again... sorta |
| 07:20.30 | happycube | they want to get 10-20% of the cell phone market with silverthorne |
| 07:20.57 | ynezz | ddon't know why they sold pxa over to nda kingdom^W^Wmarwell |
| 07:21.01 | happycube | an x86 openmoko, assuming silverthorne's power consumption would be low enough would be interesting |
| 07:21.13 | happycube | because they figured out just how well the pentium-m core dieshrinks |
| 07:21.26 | happycube | it's insanely small at 45nm |
| 07:22.02 | happycube | and what is *with* marvell and their ndas anyhow? |
| 07:22.12 | holycow | yeah their new santa rosa platforms is a push in that direction |
| 07:22.34 | holycow | i think its a simultaneous lower power, lower die size plus faster gfx all in one |
| 07:22.42 | happycube | actually the first bit is a100/a110... rebadged dothan at <5w |
| 07:23.07 | happycube | paired up with a downclocked i915 |
| 07:23.22 | holycow | the fujitsu i ordered is just a 90nm dothan downscaled to 800mhz and a tiny cache, the next intel cpu chipset +cpu are supposed to 45nm and theoretically kick some serious butt |
| 07:23.35 | holycow | happycube, right thats what the fujitsu is *nod* |
| 07:24.05 | happycube | yup, that's it |
| 07:24.23 | happycube | i bet the 3g iphone will have it |
| 07:24.29 | happycube | ok, not much, but still |
| 07:24.49 | holycow | yeah totally |
| 07:24.55 | holycow | i'm sure openmoko will be able to use it too |
| 07:25.11 | happycube | it'd mean more for openmoko than the iphone |
| 07:25.42 | holycow | totally |
| 07:26.42 | happycube | more speed, portability, 3d with fragment shaders... |
| 07:27.05 | holycow | the only problem you run into then is windows |
| 07:27.21 | holycow | people will just be running vista or whatever on them and co's will get the gaming stuff to run on phones |
| 07:27.35 | holycow | which would negate moko trying to go for that niche |
| 07:27.49 | happycube | i don't think vista'd actually do well on these |
| 07:28.12 | holycow | it already runs well on whatever the sony ux90 is running ... |
| 07:28.14 | happycube | depends on if the 45nm chipset is i915 or 945... the latter would support aero glass |
| 07:28.34 | holycow | well vista is just a royal fuckup bad example |
| 07:28.40 | happycube | *nod* |
| 07:28.49 | happycube | the baseline a1xx is expected to be paired up with 915 |
| 07:28.50 | holycow | i mean beryl does 1000 times more things than vista and cpu doesn't budge so ... |
| 07:28.52 | happycube | so no aero glass |
| 07:28.52 | Linux_Galore | http://tunteella.xerc.biz/1309.gif |
| 07:28.59 | holycow | bery would run on i915 |
| 07:29.06 | happycube | yup |
| 07:29.28 | holycow | but either capable of ogl or directx makes games companies salivate |
| 07:29.30 | happycube | glass ran on the i915 in beta and then supposedly microsoft demanded something |
| 07:29.50 | happycube | and they couldn't make 915 work with it anymore |
| 07:30.00 | happycube | incredibly arbitrary since 915/945 are so similar |
| 07:30.06 | holycow | Linux_Galore, funny you posted that. did you see the project where they take garfield comics and remove all the dialog? |
| 07:30.11 | holycow | they are VERY FUNNY without dialog |
| 07:30.26 | happycube | heh |
| 07:30.28 | holycow | happycube, the ways of microsoft are a mystery tome |
| 07:31.08 | happycube | indeed |
| 07:31.23 | holycow | i wish we could rip the gaming support out from under them somehow, i was hoping a micro platform like moko might restart the race ... |
| 07:31.34 | holycow | but now that we have been chatting up about the next cpus and chipsets ... |
| 07:32.11 | holycow | the fredom thing is a very important and good sell |
| 07:32.30 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 07:32.33 | holycow | but the shallow self interest of game addicts is far easier a sell |
| 07:33.44 | happycube | well if openmoko had a lot of free games they'd just be enjoying the freedom in a different way |
| 07:34.06 | happycube | and the 915 opens some doors graphicswise too |
| 07:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-151-188-111.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:34.34 | holycow | we would need a few things to happen at the same time i think |
| 07:34.48 | holycow | some sort of ogl wrapper environment to rival the ease of use of dx |
| 07:35.16 | holycow | well that would be the main one for anything beyond tetris on steroids |
| 07:35.17 | holycow | heh |
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| 07:41.51 | Sup3rkiddo | or nethack |
| 07:42.43 | holycow | damn so then we have the same sales job as we have now |
| 07:42.45 | holycow | *hmmm* |
| 07:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 07:44.00 | ynezz | or j2me lol |
| 07:45.57 | ynezz | i think, that first we need to port moko into ncurses so it would be usable/fast :) |
| 07:46.15 | *** join/#openmoko pubbie (n=pubbie@81-229-124-104-no50.tbcn.telia.com) |
| 07:46.19 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 07:46.20 | ynezz | and find some good ascii artist for icons |
| 07:46.47 | holycow | hehehe :) |
| 07:48.47 | ynezz | i think it would looks nice in 640x480 on such small screen |
| 07:49.53 | *** join/#openmoko Gorth (n=gorth@0x5551d1e2.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 07:51.34 | holycow | oh and these are the people i keep on wanting to convert to an open and free : |
| 07:51.36 | holycow | http://wcbstv.com/seenon/local_story_193212517.html |
| 07:51.38 | holycow | *sigh* |
| 07:51.41 | holycow | humanity needs a reboot |
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| 08:00.27 | CM | morning :) |
| 08:01.55 | ewanm89_laptop | morning |
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| 08:05.24 | ewanm89_laptop | :( gadgetfs network emulation is still not working, could it be interfering with this usbfs mount? |
| 08:07.12 | pubbie | can the AR6K inject packets? |
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| 08:19.17 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] |
| 08:19.30 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, great drives, I can't decompress the tarballs. |
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| 08:33.29 | gcb77 | YES!!!! ssh into qemu neo emulator: pwned! |
| 08:34.06 | CM | gcb77: Nice work :) |
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| 09:21.28 | ewanm89_laptop | I'm still having trouble with gadgetfs, so no ssh into emulator :( |
| 09:24.28 | ewanm89_laptop | gcb77: Did you see what the "gadget_ep_parse: failed to configure gadgetfs: -16" meanss? |
| 09:25.35 | codyl | how do I make the kernel ignore the machine id ? |
| 09:29.57 | *** join/#openmoko write_erase (n=olivier@bon13-2-82-237-125-220.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:30.39 | write_erase | Seems the moko phone have no Wifi chipset yet ? right ? |
| 09:30.51 | mjr | *sigh* |
| 09:31.20 | codyl | mjr, seems like tons of people have started coming to openmoko channel now that it is "real" |
| 09:33.01 | mjr | yeah, and asking the same questions everyone who isn't doing anything for the platform asks first |
| 09:33.12 | mjr | !wifi |
| 09:33.23 | mjr | or what was the trigger |
| 09:33.27 | Rince | !wlan |
| 09:33.36 | Rince | mjr: gta02 will have. |
| 09:33.38 | mjr | anyway, no, wait until the mass market release |
| 09:33.42 | mjr | I KNOW |
| 09:33.48 | codyl | mjr, ya..*sigh* which is hilarious considering you have to use the wiki to get the irc channel |
| 09:33.51 | Rince | mjr: sorry, you were the wrong recipient |
| 09:34.09 | Rince | write_erase: gta02 will have as is to be read on the webpage and in the announcements |
| 09:34.35 | pubbie | but that wlan chipset cant do injection right? |
| 09:34.36 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 09:35.13 | mjr | the question of the chips capabilities is a more interesting one and I haven't seen definitive answers, though haven't looked very hard myself |
| 09:35.26 | pubbie | Ive googled a bit |
| 09:35.45 | codyl | also, power consumption was a factor iirc |
| 09:35.45 | pubbie | apparently the chipset is used in wlan-cf cards |
| 09:35.49 | write_erase | great... I'll wait fot the GTA02 as I don't have much money |
| 09:36.08 | pubbie | thats prolly why its power consumption is good |
| 09:36.17 | write_erase | I'd like to have atheros chipset in it ... |
| 09:36.39 | pubbie | it is |
| 09:36.49 | mjr | "Atheros AR6K" |
| 09:36.58 | mjr | if you mean the ones driven by madwifi, no you don't |
| 09:37.14 | mjr | they take too much power, and besides, no binary kernel modules for our phone thanks |
| 09:37.22 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:37.53 | write_erase | Ok... |
| 09:38.20 | write_erase | Someone made measurements of Neo1973 authonomy in GSM mode, with bluetooth ? |
| 09:38.29 | write_erase | and in stanby |
| 09:39.00 | pubbie | there were some numbers in the wiki |
| 09:39.45 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host209-161.pool8252.interbusiness.it) |
| 09:40.45 | pubbie | I'll buy a gta02 in an instant if wlan packet injection works |
| 09:41.06 | pubbie | have to wait untill people get their hands on them and hack them or something |
| 09:41.41 | mjr | I can certainly see innocent uses for that, but I wonder |
| 09:42.27 | aloril2 | mjr: trigger is without '!' |
| 09:42.33 | mjr | wifi |
| 09:42.34 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi with free (libre) drivers (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 09:42.37 | mjr | righto |
| 09:43.39 | pubbie | hehe :) |
| 09:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko tim (n=tim@d515323B9.access.telenet.be) |
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| 09:47.05 | aloril2 | with generic '?' I mean that lone ? (or maybe !) in line would search few previous lines and search various faq pages and respond with most appropriate one |
| 09:48.27 | aloril2 | wifi trigger has quite good hit rate though |
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| 10:10.22 | Linux_Galore | Nokia N95i with 8Gb of storage seen in the wild -> http://i166.photobucket.com/albums/u117/Gizza22/NokiaN953.jpg |
| 10:11.44 | Linux_Galore | actually 8GB |
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| 10:20.00 | Linux_Galore | another pic of the same phone http://www.intomobile.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/n.jpg |
| 10:23.42 | hardskinone | does someone had problems a "fstests" problem building openmoko? |
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| 10:27.24 | ewanm89_laptop | hardskinone: What error did you get (pastebin). |
| 10:28.40 | hardskinone | http://pastebin.com/m5f7be48b |
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| 10:29.08 | hardskinone | I got this error on both Fedora 7 and Ubuntu 7.04 |
| 10:30.23 | ewanm89_laptop | Oh, it can't find it. |
| 10:31.15 | ewanm89_laptop | hardskinone: make setup was successful? |
| 10:31.32 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@host-82-135-95-87.customer.m-online.net) |
| 10:31.51 | hardskinone | yes, |
| 10:32.40 | hardskinone | that error come launching make openmoko-devel-image |
| 10:33.40 | ewanm89_laptop | Could you run openembedded/packages/fs* and see if fstest is in the output please? |
| 10:34.15 | rwhitby | hardskinone: build fstests manually, then try again |
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| 10:35.31 | rwhitby | make build-package-fstests |
| 10:36.30 | hardskinone | mm, it runs w/o issue but looks like it does nothing... |
| 10:36.41 | ewanm89_laptop | "cd build; . ../env-update; bitbake fstests" should work also. |
| 10:38.17 | hardskinone | . ../env-update fails |
| 10:40.02 | ewanm89_laptop | s/env-update/setup-env/ |
| 10:40.21 | hardskinone | http://pastebin.com/m3c1c3fb <-- make build-package-fstests |
| 10:41.30 | ewanm89_laptop | hardskinone: It has done it then. |
| 10:42.19 | ewanm89_laptop | try openmoko-devel-image again. |
| 10:43.03 | hardskinone | I launch it. |
| 10:45.06 | hardskinone | :( same error |
| 10:45.45 | rwhitby | the build-package-fstests didn't do anything |
| 10:46.10 | ewanm89_laptop | no, as it though it was already built. |
| 10:46.29 | hardskinone | fstets looks part of a openmoko-debug package, there is a way to exclude it from build? |
| 10:46.40 | rwhitby | sure, edit the recipe |
| 10:47.53 | ewanm89_laptop | hardskinone: Are you compiling for an actual neo, or emulator? |
| 10:49.41 | hardskinone | I don't own neo, I trying setting up the environment (like desribe here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo) |
| 10:49.45 | rwhitby | edit oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb and remove fstests if you don't want it in |
| 10:49.51 | rwhitby | (note that make update will put it back) |
| 10:50.48 | ewanm89_laptop | rwhitby: Shouldn't we try removing the stamp first? |
| 10:51.12 | rwhitby | ewanm89_laptop: which stamp? |
| 10:51.50 | rwhitby | it's unlikely that it's built but not deployed the package for do_rootfs to find. |
| 10:52.33 | ewanm89_laptop | The compile stamps, bitbake thinks it's compiled it, but can't find the file, but it won't try again because it created the stamp to say it did it. |
| 10:53.36 | rwhitby | just do a make clean-package-fstests in that case and then rebuild it |
| 10:53.36 | *** part/#openmoko elisa (n=janne@kl-tre-fec3dd00-81.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 10:55.31 | hardskinone | so, I make openmoko-devel-image but still fails in same way. Now I launch make-clane-package-fstests ; make openmoko-devel-image |
| 10:57.40 | ewanm89_laptop | hardskinone: You have to increase the PR number by one in that task-openmoko.bb file. |
| 11:01.43 | hardskinone | wow, no works. |
| 11:01.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (i=bedboi@151.83.2.187) |
| 11:02.11 | hardskinone | no, sorry :) noW works. |
| 11:03.04 | hardskinone | I excluded fstests from task-openmoko.b; increased PR number; and I re-launched make openmoko-devel-image. |
| 11:04.08 | hardskinone | thanks for your help. |
| 11:04.34 | ewanm89_laptop | np |
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| 11:22.52 | MangoFusion | hi there |
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| 11:54.57 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 11:55.08 | SpeedEvil | Someone actually added FPGA to the wishlist. |
| 11:55.18 | Stephmw | ~v12 |
| 11:55.19 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, v12 is the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ |
| 11:55.38 | Stephmw | I stand by my wishlist item. It just needs a little time for miniaturisation. |
| 11:55.54 | SpeedEvil | Though there were actually several other sane comments by the user. |
| 11:56.35 | SpeedEvil | A .049' V12 could be made around the same size as the phone. |
| 11:57.56 | MangoFusion | fgpa? |
| 11:58.21 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 11:58.31 | SpeedEvil | Field Programmable Gate Array |
| 11:58.35 | MangoFusion | ah right |
| 11:58.54 | jgm | I'm getting an error cannot find dbus-binding-tool when attempting to build the dialer, any ideas? |
| 11:59.11 | SpeedEvil | Basically a generalised 'sea' of logic, which can be customised into everything from processors to special purpose logic. |
| 11:59.31 | MrFeetio | i hope fic makes some more models soon |
| 11:59.33 | jgm | FPGA: a hardware version of software |
| 11:59.43 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much. |
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| 12:00.36 | Stephmw | fpga's have a place... a phone isn't it. |
| 12:00.55 | Stephmw | MangoFusion: with the v12, power wouldn't be a problem :D |
| 12:01.05 | MangoFusion | haha |
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| 12:03.35 | tim | what version are we now? |
| 12:03.44 | SpeedEvil | version? |
| 12:04.41 | tim | what kernel is included at this moment |
| 12:04.44 | Stephmw | tim: dunno about you, but I'm still good ol' v1.0 |
| 12:05.00 | Stephmw | tim: the day that my wife opts for v2.0 is the day I look for another home.. |
| 12:05.05 | SpeedEvil | 2.6.20 IIRC |
| 12:05.19 | tim | did you already own a neo |
| 12:05.28 | tim | orders from 16/7 |
| 12:05.36 | SpeedEvil | 100ish people do. About 12 in this channel. |
| 12:05.49 | SpeedEvil | Of varying hardware versions. |
| 12:05.49 | tim | with shipment from monday |
| 12:06.10 | baze | does anyone know if the new mutli-touch implementation in mpx needs a multi-touch hardware aswell, or if it could be used to have multi-touch on the neo aswell? |
| 12:06.10 | tim | what processor ?200MHz |
| 12:06.19 | tim | like the htc touch 3450 |
| 12:06.48 | tim | will the october device have a 400 Mhz processor? |
| 12:07.11 | koen | baze: the trick with multitouch is that is uses multuple pointers, so you could simulate it with mpx + 2 (usb/bt) mice |
| 12:07.11 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 12:07.11 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) |
| 12:07.43 | SpeedEvil | koen: reportedly, someones pushing multiple pointer - mpx into X |
| 12:08.02 | koen | right |
| 12:08.13 | koen | Peter Hutterer |
| 12:08.20 | koen | see http://planet.freedesktop.org/ for cool demos |
| 12:08.20 | MangoFusion | i'm kindof half tempted to get the developer phone now... |
| 12:08.22 | MangoFusion | but i'm kind of torn between the question of "do i wait and get the faster more stable version with wifi" or "do i get the slower current version which isn't quite ready yet but i could always just use the cool bluetooth instead" |
| 12:08.30 | baze | koen: but you can't use gestures with 2 fingers on the touchscreen, right? |
| 12:08.33 | SpeedEvil | The hardware is stable. |
| 12:08.47 | bedboi | damn, it's a shame that the GtkFileChooser widget is this slow |
| 12:08.51 | SpeedEvil | baze: the current screen is signletouch. |
| 12:08.51 | bedboi | imho it should spawn a thread |
| 12:08.51 | MangoFusion | doesn't quite help that i have been disappointed with devices with everything (i.e. bluetooth + wifi + kitchen sink) before |
| 12:08.54 | MangoFusion | ;) |
| 12:08.56 | koen | baze: not with this hardware, it will even out the to touches |
| 12:09.04 | baze | ok, thanks |
| 12:09.27 | SpeedEvil | baze: you get a reported touch somewhere in the bounding box of the touches on the display. |
| 12:09.38 | SpeedEvil | Computing exactly where is a little tricky. |
| 12:09.47 | bedboi | the stuff I'm very eager of are the two accelerometers |
| 12:09.59 | baze | then let's hope that future versions will feature a multi-touch screen ;) |
| 12:10.13 | SpeedEvil | bedboi: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals |
| 12:10.27 | bedboi | it will be very cool to play with'em |
| 12:10.46 | SpeedEvil | Many people think they can do more than they can. |
| 12:15.27 | MangoFusion | what are you saying? i can't answer my email, develop software, read my rss feeds, play counterstrike, do the washing, juggle some balls, and save the planet all at the same time? |
| 12:15.45 | SpeedEvil | The accelerometers. |
| 12:15.55 | SpeedEvil | You can't for example do inertial navigation with them. |
| 12:16.05 | SpeedEvil | Well - not generally. |
| 12:16.14 | MangoFusion | oh right ;- |
| 12:16.16 | MangoFusion | :) |
| 12:18.13 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 12:18.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[General-purpose_buttons_%28side-mounted%29]] [[Extra_battery]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Protocols]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] and other changes |
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| 12:20.25 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 12:20.26 | MangoFusion | the only useful thing i see an accelerometer doing is |
| 12:20.48 | MangoFusion | switching from landscape -> portrait and portrait -> landscape when you tilt the phone |
| 12:20.50 | MangoFusion | haha |
| 12:20.58 | SpeedEvil | There are many more. |
| 12:21.28 | SpeedEvil | Consider for example the movement starting with the phone in its holster, and ending up at your ear in the correct orientation to talk. |
| 12:21.56 | SpeedEvil | It's quite plausible that it might be distinctive enough to work as 'answer phone'. |
| 12:22.12 | SpeedEvil | Also - light-sabre noises. |
| 12:22.19 | MangoFusion | yes that too |
| 12:22.20 | MangoFusion | :) |
| 12:23.23 | MrFeetio | i swear i could cry, im looking at AT&T 3g coverage area |
| 12:23.53 | MrFeetio | and it begins just a half mile from my house and goes all the way to my school |
| 12:24.03 | dilinger | ossman: are you conscious? |
| 12:24.28 | MrFeetio | how much does a 3g laptop modem cost? |
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| 12:25.46 | ossman | dilinger, somewhat. vacation. higher brain functions will return in four weeks :) |
| 12:26.27 | ossman | isn't ungodly early/late over there, btw? |
| 12:26.42 | dilinger | ossman: nothing requiring higher brain functions; i was just curious if you had an openmoko, and if so whether SD actually worked for you |
| 12:27.01 | dilinger | yea, it's also ungodly humid and warm; i can't sleep in this kind of weather |
| 12:27.12 | ossman | yes, and yes |
| 12:27.20 | dilinger | ok, perhaps not ungodly warm, but uncomfortably so |
| 12:27.29 | ossman | haven't tested the latest build though |
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| 12:27.45 | dilinger | ossman: do you remember which kernel? |
| 12:28.05 | ossman | uImage-2.6.21.1-moko10-r0_0_1883_0-fic-gta01.bin |
| 12:28.23 | dilinger | ok, so fairly recent |
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| 12:28.34 | ossman | I have only tested the card I got with it though |
| 12:28.44 | ossman | I don't have that large collection of microsd |
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| 12:29.35 | dilinger | we have one or two others at the office, but the one that came with it is giving me trouble; in uboot, it spit out some read errors when i was reading a rootfs.jffs2 off of it, and in linux mount is failing |
| 12:29.59 | ossman | might just be a bad card |
| 12:30.06 | ossman | what error do you get in dmesg? |
| 12:30.22 | MangoFusion | something i just noticed, is there any way to explicitly clear the whole entered number on the dialer? i can only seem to clear 1 digit at a time |
| 12:31.54 | tim | hi all what is the status of the dialer? can i dial yet or receive a call? |
| 12:31.56 | dilinger | <6>yaffs: dev is 266338305 name is "mmcblk0p1" |
| 12:31.56 | dilinger | <4>yaffs: Attempting MTD mount on 254.1, "mmcblk0p1" |
| 12:31.59 | dilinger | nothing really useful there |
| 12:32.07 | dilinger | mount: Mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /t failed: No such device |
| 12:32.41 | ossman | you trying to go via block-to-mtd? |
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| 12:33.31 | MangoFusion | tim: i'm just using the emulator, so i don't know if it fully works properly. though it seems to be dialing - but since nobody is there its not very useful - haha |
| 12:34.11 | dilinger | ossman: mount /dev/mmcblk0p1 /t -t ext2 |
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| 12:34.45 | ossman | dilinger, I'm off to congratulate my brother on being one year closer to being an old fart. I'll be back later if you're unable to sort it out yourself |
| 12:35.04 | dilinger | ossman: ok, enjoy |
| 12:36.06 | dilinger | i suppose setting up a toolchain and sprinkling some printks around would help immensely |
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| 12:40.02 | zecke | mickey|slides: master? |
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| 12:43.12 | dilinger | huh, that worked |
| 12:43.41 | dilinger | interesting. attempting to mount as ext2 doesn't work, ext3 is required (i just added a journal) |
| 12:47.09 | MangoFusion | speaking of mounting and sd cards and whatnot, has anyone made an OpenMoko media player yet? ;) |
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| 12:49.23 | buz | is there no linux driver at all for the smedia or just a closed source one available right now? |
| 12:49.46 | dilinger | MangoFusion: aplay'ing stuff off the SD card works ;p |
| 12:50.17 | SpeedEvil | NDAd |
| 12:50.23 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 12:50.40 | MangoFusion | neat |
| 12:50.47 | SpeedEvil | The only driver available is an internal FIC one - they've just got it acting as a dumb frabebuffer as of last reports. |
| 12:51.02 | SpeedEvil | framebuffer |
| 12:51.05 | buz | so there is no driver right now |
| 12:51.37 | buz | i had been wondering whether there would be a stop gap closed source one until fic get theirs up to speed but apparently, no |
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| 12:53.03 | dilinger | is there some sort of special dance i should be doing to make the mic work? i'm testng it out with arecord, but it doesn't seem to be capturing anything |
| 12:53.07 | SpeedEvil | I don't know - it's just what - IIRC - ro h - said on IRC. |
| 12:53.21 | SpeedEvil | dilinger: the magic setting of the eleventy-one mixers. |
| 12:53.45 | buz | SpeedEvil: well maybe smedia intended it to tbe a winmobile part and figured fic would write a linux driver for them for free ;) |
| 12:53.53 | SpeedEvil | dilinger: /etc/sound/alsa* or somewhere may have the appropriate mixers. |
| 12:53.57 | SpeedEvil | settings |
| 12:54.04 | SpeedEvil | It's in the wiki somewhere. |
| 12:56.20 | buz | mhh mark shuttleworth is looking at building a free software laptop. another project for fic, maybe... |
| 12:56.40 | pygi | ah :) |
| 12:58.54 | SpeedEvil | I'm surprised that nobody has looked up the feedback of the ebay-neo1973 seller. |
| 12:58.58 | SpeedEvil | _run_away_ |
| 12:59.02 | SpeedEvil | Yes - it's 100% |
| 12:59.18 | SpeedEvil | But, the only recent transactions are in the last week or two. |
| 12:59.24 | SpeedEvil | And there are only two of them. |
| 12:59.32 | SpeedEvil | And they are for a total value of $40 |
| 12:59.43 | SpeedEvil | With a two year gap since the last activity. |
| 13:00.10 | SpeedEvil | IOW - very, very likely to be a taken-over-account. |
| 13:01.51 | MangoFusion | thus why i never use ebay |
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| 13:02.59 | dilinger | SpeedEvil: i'm assuming you're referring to one of the /etc/alsa/capture{head,hand}set.state files? i'm having no luck with either of those |
| 13:03.15 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:03.24 | SpeedEvil | I dunno - I've not got hardware. |
| 13:03.52 | MangoFusion | free software laptop? neat |
| 13:04.33 | dilinger | alright, thanks anyway |
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| 13:10.58 | SpeedEvil | MangoFusion: Ebay is just a venue. |
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| 13:11.03 | SpeedEvil | You have to be careful as you would with any. |
| 13:11.43 | SpeedEvil | The tools ebay has - feedback, communication with seller, all help if used properly. |
| 13:13.18 | SpeedEvil | I've got around 250 transactions on ebay - mostly buys - and have had one problem - and that was with someone I let use my account to buy stuff not being careful. (and that was resolved by paypal refunding). |
| 13:14.40 | bedboi | a friend of mine lost 1000 eur or something |
| 13:14.51 | bedboi | i bet he won't use ebay anymore |
| 13:15.24 | SpeedEvil | On what? |
| 13:15.42 | SpeedEvil | There are riskier categories. |
| 13:16.03 | SpeedEvil | Buy new shiny expensive stuff, and you're where all the fraudsters are. |
| 13:16.11 | SpeedEvil | Buy old sofas and it's less risky. |
| 13:19.40 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_2aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-210-181.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:20.36 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: well, that didn't take long |
| 13:21.03 | *** join/#openmoko jpozlovsky (n=jindra@rb5cc115.net.upc.cz) |
| 13:22.10 | SpeedEvil | above is about the ebay sale. |
| 13:24.05 | MrFeetio | what kind of 3g is most common? |
| 13:24.14 | MrFeetio | UMTS(#GSM)? |
| 13:24.22 | MrFeetio | UMTS(3GSM)? |
| 13:25.00 | *** join/#openmoko tomeff (n=tomas@r5bo104.net.upc.cz) |
| 13:25.25 | tomeff | hello |
| 13:25.38 | tomeff | pls. help me with qemu on ubuntu 4.04 CZ |
| 13:26.09 | MangoFusion | SpeedEvil: true, though a bit too dodgy for me ;) |
| 13:26.24 | pygi | tomeff, 4.04?!?! |
| 13:26.32 | tomeff | ssry 7.04 |
| 13:26.37 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 13:27.21 | tomeff | *pls. help me with qemu on ubuntu 7.04 CZ |
| 13:27.59 | MangoFusion | got it working fine on qemu here |
| 13:29.19 | MangoFusion | albeit slow |
| 13:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@86.154.6.108) |
| 13:29.27 | MangoFusion | (hope it isn't that slow on real hardware) |
| 13:29.46 | tomeff | make send err |
| 13:30.05 | tomeff | .... |
| 13:30.09 | tomeff | block-qcow2.c:2250: warning: excess elements in struct initializer |
| 13:30.13 | tomeff | block-qcow2.c:2250: warning: (near initialization for ‘bdrv_qcow2’) |
| 13:30.13 | tomeff | block-qcow2.c:2251: error: unknown field ‘bdrv_get_info’ specified in initializer |
| 13:30.13 | tomeff | block-qcow2.c:2251: warning: excess elements in struct initializer |
| 13:30.13 | tomeff | block-qcow2.c:2251: warning: (near initialization for ‘bdrv_qcow2’) |
| 13:30.13 | tomeff | make: *** [qemu-img] Error 1 |
| 13:30.14 | tomeff | tomas@tomas-desktop:~/qemu-neo1973$ |
| 13:30.58 | Kensan | tomeff: please use pastebin (e.g. pastebin.ca) |
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| 13:31.14 | tomeff | Kensan: ok |
| 13:34.06 | SpeedEvil | MrFeetio: depends where you are. |
| 13:34.23 | MangoFusion | are you using gcc 3.3? |
| 13:35.04 | *** join/#openmoko Tjikkun (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl) |
| 13:36.43 | tomeff | http://pastebin.ca/620389 |
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| 13:39.41 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (i=bedboi@151.83.6.104) |
| 13:39.58 | Kensan | tomeff: what's your gcc version? |
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| 13:40.34 | tomeff | Kensan: wait |
| 13:42.10 | tomeff | 4.1.2 |
| 13:44.23 | daxxar | When I send YES_I_DO, do I get a confirmation? :-/ |
| 13:44.53 | mjr | doesn't seem so |
| 13:45.26 | Kensan | tomeff: AFAIK, you need gcc 3.*. |
| 13:45.38 | daxxar | Hm, ok. :-) |
| 13:49.14 | jgm | tomeff: Yep Kensan is right you can install gcc-3 at the same time as 4 though so it isn't a problem |
| 13:49.17 | tomeff | i installing (gcc 3.3 and 3.4 |
| 13:49.21 | jgm | (I'm on Feisty as well) |
| 13:49.36 | jgm | 3.4 is all you need |
| 13:50.15 | Kensan | tomeff: for further info check the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 13:53.26 | tomeff | http://pastebin.ca/620415 |
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| 14:00.53 | Kensan | Did you "./configure"? |
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| 14:05.31 | tomeff | yes |
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| 14:10.35 | tomeff | jpozlovsky: cus |
| 14:12.28 | jpozlovsky | tomeff: hi :) |
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| 14:13.32 | tomeff | jpozlovsky: pros nejsi na icq? |
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| 14:16.15 | SiO2 | 'allo |
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| 14:44.06 | mbuf | to use the USB host mode on the GTA01B_v4, we need to connect self-powered USB devices? |
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| 14:45.09 | Vegar | yes, or you need to use a powered USB hub |
| 14:45.21 | mbuf | thanks |
| 14:45.23 | Vegar | or inject power |
| 14:45.38 | Vegar | with a special home-made cable |
| 14:47.49 | mbuf | i saw this look and feel page in the wiki, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel; is it possible to use landscape view on this application area with GTK programming? |
| 14:49.03 | bedboi | mbuf: i think this is more a xrandr stuff |
| 14:49.19 | SiO2 | i think so. in the "ninja" video was the view turned for 90degree |
| 14:49.49 | mbuf | ok |
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| 14:56.40 | SpeedEvil | Many self-powered devices will not talk to a totally unpowered host. |
| 14:57.00 | SpeedEvil | They use the 5V line - not unreasonably - to detect the presence of a host. |
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| 15:02.14 | bmidgley | neo would be a great all-in-one device with the gps and a maemo-mapper port |
| 15:02.31 | bmidgley | to take it on a trip without power handy, i wanted to use a solar panel or crank charger |
| 15:02.42 | SpeedEvil | If only openstreetmap was decent. |
| 15:02.44 | bmidgley | neo won't charge from either of those |
| 15:02.50 | SpeedEvil | It will. |
| 15:02.59 | bmidgley | 500mA? |
| 15:03.13 | SpeedEvil | If it has a USB output. It requires one line of script to get it to charge at 500mA |
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| 15:03.25 | SpeedEvil | even from non-approved chargers. |
| 15:03.38 | bmidgley | I've tried it... :) so where is this one line? |
| 15:04.04 | SpeedEvil | Sorry, I'm going by hearsay, I haven't had a device. |
| 15:04.16 | bmidgley | maemo mapper is excellent for topo and sat maps so it's perfect for hiking/camping |
| 15:04.41 | koen | maemomapper rocks |
| 15:05.17 | bmidgley | koen: howdy |
| 15:05.25 | koen | after converting its gpx to kml you can do stuff like this: http://linuxtogo.org/~koen/Edinburgh-walk.jpg |
| 15:05.31 | koen | bmidgley: hi |
| 15:06.48 | bmidgley | cool :) I did something similar with plotting out my snowboarding day |
| 15:06.59 | bmidgley | walking tour? |
| 15:07.13 | bmidgley | looks sort of off-road |
| 15:07.28 | SpeedEvil | koen: not used it - is that directly with maemo-mapper, or using google-earth or something? |
| 15:07.57 | bmidgley | maemo mapper saves in gpx... use gpsbabel to translate to kml then plot in GE |
| 15:08.05 | SpeedEvil | Right. |
| 15:08.46 | koen | bmidgley: walking tour |
| 15:08.46 | SpeedEvil | Comments on a basic tracking application page welcome. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Openstreetmap |
| 15:09.00 | bmidgley | a neo would be easier to manage on a hike than gps+n800+cell |
| 15:09.30 | SpeedEvil | This is seperate from a view map page - it's a very minimal app intended for most users to install. |
| 15:10.04 | *** part/#openmoko tomeff (n=tomas@r5bo104.net.upc.cz) |
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| 15:11.20 | CM | koen: Cool :) |
| 15:11.29 | MangoFusion | neat |
| 15:12.02 | bmidgley | koen: was the walk in just one day? you must have been tired |
| 15:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 15:17.37 | SiO2 | or stupid ;) |
| 15:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 15:19.38 | bmidgley | SpeedEvil: I'm digging around in etc/ to see if charging control happens here... nothing so far |
| 15:20.59 | bmidgley | maybe controlled through /proc |
| 15:22.51 | buz | or looking for beer |
| 15:23.22 | bmidgley | wow neo runs pulseaudio |
| 15:24.11 | *** join/#openmoko sagacis (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 15:24.35 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p57A65C37.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:27.27 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 15:27.39 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 15:27.46 | MangoFusion | pulseaudio? |
| 15:28.03 | MangoFusion | ah right |
| 15:28.21 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0F5AB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:32.30 | bmidgley | I've been wishing we could drop alsa bindings for bluetooth audio |
| 15:32.35 | bmidgley | but not everyone runs pulse |
| 15:32.40 | bmidgley | at least neo does :) |
| 15:33.49 | ewon | anyone know if there is GSM coverage in Vancouver? |
| 15:34.16 | MangoFusion | i was wondering about audio. considering there doesn't appear to be a headphone port, am i going to have to rely on bluetooth headphones? *shudders* |
| 15:34.29 | bmidgley | there is a headphone jack |
| 15:34.30 | SpeedEvil | 2.5mm headset port |
| 15:34.37 | bmidgley | 2.5mm stereo + mic (4-conductor) |
| 15:34.38 | SpeedEvil | can be converted with an adaptor. |
| 15:35.12 | MangoFusion | really? |
| 15:35.14 | bmidgley | there are two common ways to wire up the 4-conductors. neo uses the one that is different from palm |
| 15:35.15 | SpeedEvil | Which are _cheap_ on ebay |
| 15:35.18 | MangoFusion | neat |
| 15:36.13 | bmidgley | the included headset is really comfortable |
| 15:37.01 | *** join/#openmoko ravan_ (n=ravan@59.93.95.29) |
| 15:38.17 | MangoFusion | didn't quite see it on the promo shots |
| 15:38.20 | MangoFusion | ;) |
| 15:40.32 | ckuethe | ewon: yes, with rogers/fido |
| 15:40.39 | ewon | excellent |
| 15:40.51 | ewon | employer might be sending me to Vancouver instead of Los Angeles |
| 15:41.02 | ckuethe | oh? |
| 15:41.17 | ewon | I'm currently based in Ireland |
| 15:41.24 | ewon | supposed to be moving to LA next month |
| 15:41.35 | ckuethe | vancouver is nice |
| 15:41.37 | ewon | but now they're thinking of sending me to Vancouver instead |
| 15:41.49 | ckuethe | i quite like it there. |
| 15:41.58 | ewon | cool |
| 15:42.19 | ckuethe | a couple or three times a year i'm out there on business, and i always wish i could stay longer |
| 15:42.38 | ewon | it's probably less insane than LA |
| 15:42.45 | ckuethe | without a doubt |
| 15:42.54 | ckuethe | even rush hour isn't all that bad |
| 15:47.40 | jadams | ewon: where in ireland are you? I lived in Greystone (Co. Wicklow, 30m S of dublin) for eight onths |
| 15:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@ip72-213-26-114.om.om.cox.net) |
| 15:48.00 | ewon | jadams: I'm based in Drogheda, work in Dublin city centre |
| 15:48.18 | jadams | fun...I miss Ireland, planning on going back for a few months to work sometime soon |
| 15:48.25 | jadams | I'm just a programmer, so I can work anywhere... |
| 15:48.30 | ewon | me too |
| 15:48.39 | jadams | once I get this phone and a bt fabric keyboard, it'll be literally anywhere :) |
| 15:48.42 | ewon | never worked outside of Ireland before |
| 15:48.57 | Stephmw | jadams: sounds messy :) |
| 15:52.38 | MangoFusion | sounds like a great idea, except the screen's going to be too darn small ;) |
| 15:52.49 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s_ (n=gustavo@20150239155.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 15:58.58 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 15:59.57 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:02.13 | *** join/#openmoko matthew_ (n=matthew@adsl-18-111-64.sdf.bellsouth.net) |
| 16:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 16:06.10 | SpeedEvil | You need to add a loupe, and baseball cap with velcro on the front. |
| 16:06.39 | SpeedEvil | Wear the loupe, attach the neo to the front of the bill. |
| 16:07.47 | *** join/#openmoko some1___ (n=some1@p54A0F05B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:08.23 | galexande | uh |
| 16:11.25 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:13.28 | jadams | SpeedEvil: I'm there |
| 16:14.00 | jadams | I NEED a way to hook up one of the micro-optical displays |
| 16:14.09 | Qwell | SpeedEvil: perhaps said cap should also have a propeller? :) |
| 16:14.10 | jadams | I'd start wearing glasses again :) |
| 16:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@212-41-66-184.adsl.solnet.ch) |
| 16:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko lextul (n=thomas@80.64.176.30) |
| 16:18.51 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck_ (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 16:19.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Java]] [[Openstreetmap]] [[Category:GPS]] [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[Gpsd]] [[GPS_Navigation]] [[GPS]] [[GPS_Connection_Status]] |
| 16:19.41 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan_ (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 16:20.24 | galexande | this guy selling 4 neos on ebay lives just 50 miles from here |
| 16:20.27 | galexande | want i should go beat him up |
| 16:21.03 | SpeedEvil | I really doubt he does. |
| 16:21.24 | SpeedEvil | I am fairly certain that it's simply an account takeover some couple of weeks ago. |
| 16:21.25 | Kensan_ | Sounds more like a job for MokoNinja ;) |
| 16:21.26 | galexande | it's just capitalism at work, someone saw it on slashdot, predicted it would sell out and therefore that market forces dictate the price is too low, so he's trying to be a middle-man |
| 16:21.31 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0CF07.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:21.36 | SpeedEvil | Look at the single low-value probe transaction. |
| 16:21.48 | galexande | he's probably got ticket #3456 thinking he'll get them in the mail tomorrow |
| 16:21.56 | SpeedEvil | the fact that teh account has been moderately inactive. |
| 16:22.03 | SpeedEvil | That it's immediate payment only. |
| 16:22.14 | SpeedEvil | It's an account takeover. |
| 16:22.21 | SpeedEvil | He has no neos. (IMO) |
| 16:22.36 | galexande | if he had any, he wouldn't be posting the press photos |
| 16:22.53 | SpeedEvil | I mean - he hasn't even ordered them. |
| 16:24.16 | *** join/#openmoko gerikes (n=mhildret@pool-72-70-245-142.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:24.45 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Have I missed anything out of category:GPS? |
| 16:26.12 | *** part/#openmoko gerikes (n=mhildret@pool-72-70-245-142.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:28.48 | *** join/#openmoko spliffy_ (n=frost@p54B1DEFE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko BenC_ (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 16:32.48 | ossman | dilinger, *pokey* |
| 16:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing_ (n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 16:33.32 | guerby | yay I now have an order number |
| 16:35.52 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing_ (n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 16:37.20 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 16:37.20 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484D14F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:38.32 | SpeedEvil | What's it? |
| 16:40.54 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0CAAF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178083235.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 16:46.26 | *** join/#openmoko stalkerg (n=stalkerg@stalkerg.yasenevo.net) |
| 16:46.42 | stalkerg | hello all |
| 16:46.46 | matthew_ | hi |
| 16:47.18 | stalkerg | :) |
| 16:50.12 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:54.06 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@bbclaptop.student.umd.edu) |
| 16:55.36 | stalkerg | who know email DenisBY? |
| 16:55.36 | aloril | stalkerg: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 16:56.16 | *** part/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 16:56.31 | zorglu_ | q. is it possible to video a flash video thru the web on the neo1973 ? |
| 16:56.51 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@59.93.95.29) |
| 16:57.23 | zorglu_ | in fact i have other questions as well :) |
| 16:57.37 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon_II (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 16:57.46 | MangoFusion | i suspect you could run gnash on it |
| 16:58.01 | MangoFusion | which might be interesting |
| 16:58.08 | zorglu_ | ah true, the flash player is not compiled for this arch |
| 16:59.32 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@205.pool85-50-109.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 16:59.35 | zorglu_ | q. i have a program using 8mbyte of rss and 13mbyte of 'virtual memory' on linux, is that 'a lot' for a neo1973 ? |
| 17:00.11 | MangoFusion | i read in the specs that its got 128mb ram |
| 17:00.17 | MangoFusion | unless that's the flash |
| 17:00.28 | MangoFusion | all this different terminology confuses me ;) |
| 17:01.05 | stalkerg | need write more soft... maybe comercial. |
| 17:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko sunrises (n=salvator@host103-30-dynamic.57-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:01.40 | Kensan | MangoFusion: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#RAM |
| 17:02.15 | MangoFusion | yeah i didn't look at that bit |
| 17:02.21 | MangoFusion | or at least i skimmed over it |
| 17:02.22 | MangoFusion | haha |
| 17:02.24 | MangoFusion | :) |
| 17:03.03 | zorglu_ | Kensan: do you know how much is still available, once it booted and is running ? |
| 17:03.39 | sunrises | hi i'm having problems with microSD ed a usb adapter..it cant see memory stick..any hint? |
| 17:04.27 | sunrises | i have the scsi-generic and scsi-disk built-in |
| 17:08.06 | zorglu_ | stalkerg: is it possible, according to the license, to run close source code on the neo1973 ? |
| 17:08.35 | SiO2 | zorglu_, why not? you can run closed source on every box ;) |
| 17:08.35 | zorglu_ | MangoFusion: btw i just checked on gnash claims to be able to run flash video |
| 17:08.43 | stalkerg | zorglu_: LGPL? |
| 17:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko mrkiko (n=pv@adsl-51-44.38-151.net24.it) |
| 17:09.22 | *** join/#openmoko l3010o (n=leo@n219079068194.netvigator.com) |
| 17:09.23 | mrkiko | Hi all! |
| 17:09.28 | l3010o | hi |
| 17:09.47 | zorglu_ | stalkerg: ? nope i meant, suppose i do a commercial code doing things, and would like to provide it for neo1973 users. can i do it (without providing the source i mean) |
| 17:09.52 | mrkiko | I was interested in a particular manner in the openmoko project... |
| 17:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@128.238.242.251) |
| 17:10.19 | mrkiko | What about openmoko & accessibility? |
| 17:10.35 | zorglu_ | SiO2: well the license may or may not prevent it :) |
| 17:10.59 | *** join/#openmoko alech (n=alech@IP-213188106106.dialin.heagmedianet.de) |
| 17:11.26 | SiO2 | the neo has closed source, the gsm ;) |
| 17:11.30 | SiO2 | afaik |
| 17:11.34 | mrkiko | I'll need to use the phone without totally seeing what's on the screen: will I at least be able to handle it via a shell accessible from the pc with some cables ? |
| 17:11.54 | zorglu_ | SiO2: yep but it is their stuff :) |
| 17:12.45 | zorglu_ | mrkiko: out of the blue from a beginner, as the phone run linux and got ethernet wifi, i guess sshd is available |
| 17:12.46 | MangoFusion | mrkiko: thinking about it, if you are blind you won't really be able to use it as there are no physical buttons for typing in numbers, and the touch screen does not provide tactile feedback |
| 17:12.52 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@128.238.242.251) |
| 17:12.52 | SiO2 | if you have some closed source for your moko, it is no problem, and when other people install it why not. but it runs with os |
| 17:12.53 | mrkiko | If someone can give me some hints it would be very apreciated - I'm also available to stressing tests and so on to help with this project. |
| 17:13.08 | zorglu_ | SiO2: ok |
| 17:13.23 | seemant | MangoFusion: I wonder, though, if you could have it "speak" the number you dial on the dialer or something |
| 17:13.33 | MangoFusion | that would be an interesting idea |
| 17:13.44 | alech | mrkiko: ssh is possible over ethernet over usb, should be pretty out of the box (plug it in, ssh to the phone) |
| 17:13.58 | alech | MangoFusion: but what about audible feedback? |
| 17:14.14 | SiO2 | zorglu_, i am not an developer yet :(, but it is logical. you have openhardware, and you can do what you want |
| 17:14.16 | mrkiko | oh |
| 17:14.28 | mrkiko | ethernet over usb is handled with rndis or something? |
| 17:14.31 | zorglu_ | SiO2: ok :) |
| 17:14.36 | stalkerg | what soft realy need for OpenMoko?(for end users and developers) |
| 17:15.13 | SiO2 | stalkerg, good and safe one ;) |
| 17:15.23 | stalkerg | :) |
| 17:15.29 | alech | mrkiko: I remember something about usb gadget, but I am not exactly sure. |
| 17:15.52 | mrkiko | alech: mhm... |
| 17:15.59 | Mandarino | :? |
| 17:16.13 | mrkiko | alech: but if there are no buttons aniway the phone may be very harmless for me to use |
| 17:16.21 | mrkiko | *harmless=harmful* |
| 17:17.29 | alech | mrkiko: correct :( Apparently, there is only power and one 'AUX' button |
| 17:17.51 | alech | mrkiko: but that does not sound too user friendly for your scenario ... |
| 17:18.03 | stalkerg | hm... need porting python and pygtk :) |
| 17:18.05 | SiO2 | mrkiko, you can have enough "touchscreen"buttons ;) |
| 17:18.22 | mrkiko | alech: the problem is that it would be beautiful for me to try that phone: I like to understand all those mechanisms in my linux box and so... |
| 17:18.29 | SiO2 | python? for gentoo? ;) |
| 17:18.57 | stalkerg | yes! porting portage too... :)))))))))))) |
| 17:19.04 | mrkiko | alech. i was interested in understanding how the phone was organized... I would be affascinated to compile the phone's kernel :) |
| 17:20.04 | alech | mrkiko: sure, that's what's interesting for me, too ... |
| 17:20.15 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485DE22.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:20.33 | alech | mrkiko: and it would surely be quite interesting to find out if one could push accessibility better than a 'regular' phone ... |
| 17:20.55 | mrkiko | mhm.. |
| 17:21.07 | mrkiko | alech. with a keyboard probably it wouldn't be a problem. |
| 17:21.42 | alech | mrkiko: it seems to be possible to attach a bluetooth keyboard (or a USB keyboard using an active USB hub and a host cable) ... |
| 17:21.53 | mrkiko | alech: aniway I needed a phone I could fully control without having to stick with gnokii & protocols and bluetooth timeouts |
| 17:21.57 | Kensan | alech, mrkiko:please read the wiki, particularly http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch |
| 17:22.07 | alech | Kensan: for what? |
| 17:22.41 | Kensan | You both said you were interested in compiling the kernel and understanding the phone. |
| 17:23.08 | mrkiko | Kensan: thank you for the link |
| 17:23.09 | alech | Kensan: I've already successfully built it using MokoMakefile :) |
| 17:23.15 | alech | Kensan: thanks anyways ;-) |
| 17:23.44 | mrkiko | alech: did you have the phone? |
| 17:23.49 | SiO2 | alech, how many hours does it need? on my box it ist compiling since a lot of hours (2500XP) |
| 17:24.21 | alech | mrkiko: are you using a screen reader or a braille device? If the latter, I guess that could be attached to the Neo as well, making it probably pretty useful with a shell (I can now see why one would want to dial using the shell ;-) |
| 17:24.30 | zorglu_ | q. is there like an emulator of neo1973, to dev on 'normal' computer ? |
| 17:24.44 | SiO2 | neo1973-qemu |
| 17:24.47 | Kensan | zorglu_: see wiki: |
| 17:25.03 | alech | SiO2: I didn't count, but it was quite a lot, too. At least two complete nights or so (although my VM stopped during the first night, so I don't know how much of the night it took) |
| 17:25.15 | Kensan | zorglu_: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Is_there_an_emulator_available_for_OpenMoko.3F |
| 17:25.26 | zorglu_ | ok thanks |
| 17:25.40 | SiO2 | alech, :( |
| 17:25.53 | mrkiko | Yes I'm using a braille display... |
| 17:26.11 | mrkiko | but... to use the phone connecting it directly with the braille display I would need aniway to take down the X server |
| 17:26.21 | mrkiko | or at least to switch to a terminal not controlled by it |
| 17:26.32 | alech | mrkiko: right, but that should be possible ... |
| 17:26.36 | SiO2 | mrkiko, are you blind? |
| 17:26.48 | mrkiko | SiO2: yes |
| 17:27.02 | alech | mrkiko: I guess one could even have a terminal contact book that you could use to dial |
| 17:27.05 | mrkiko | alech. compiling brltty for the neo shouldn't be a problem aniway... |
| 17:27.23 | *** join/#openmoko pigpen (n=mark@fw.seamans.cc) |
| 17:27.41 | mrkiko | i have some very reduced skills of C & ncurses... |
| 17:27.47 | DukeOfUrl | mrkiko: http://www.levelstar.com/ |
| 17:27.48 | SiO2 | mrkiko, how you want use the phone? everytime with braille? |
| 17:28.24 | mrkiko | SiO2: obviously not... |
| 17:28.26 | alech | mkrkiko: I believe I've seen some terminal based contact applications, they should be pretty easy to enhance to talk to gsmd to make the call |
| 17:28.40 | mrkiko | SiO2: but... I need to use it with braille any time I want to read or send smses |
| 17:29.05 | unknown_lamer | emacs + emacsspeak + festival lite |
| 17:29.08 | SiO2 | merde, build openmoko failed :( |
| 17:29.13 | alech | anyways, I'll have to leave now. Good luck with the project, cu ... |
| 17:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:29.57 | mrkiko | bye alech |
| 17:31.11 | DukeOfUrl | mrkiko: adding GSM phone to the Icon is in the project plan. |
| 17:32.17 | mrkiko | DukeOfUrl: interesting... |
| 17:32.24 | mrkiko | DukeOfUrl: is italian supported in that product? |
| 17:32.45 | mrkiko | DukeOfUrl: Obviously icon is closed-source, right? |
| 17:32.52 | DukeOfUrl | don't know. the company is here in Louisville Colorado |
| 17:33.01 | DukeOfUrl | no! OE |
| 17:33.15 | DukeOfUrl | openembedded |
| 17:33.36 | mrkiko | oh |
| 17:33.47 | mrkiko | the girl's voice in the address book audio demo is very nice! |
| 17:33.51 | mrkiko | :) |
| 17:34.39 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 17:35.38 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-240-112.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:40.14 | zorglu_ | :) |
| 17:40.30 | zorglu_ | you buy the phone, you got the girl you know :) |
| 17:41.06 | Vegar | address book audio demo? |
| 17:41.07 | Vegar | where? |
| 17:41.44 | mrkiko | Vegar: click on the |
| 17:41.48 | mrkiko | "icon demo" |
| 17:41.50 | mrkiko | link |
| 17:41.55 | mrkiko | and then You get the lists of demos |
| 17:42.00 | Vegar | Where? |
| 17:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 17:43.11 | *** join/#openmoko calamous (n=harry@c-67-175-201-140.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 17:43.15 | mrkiko | Vegar: when you enter on the site, the default page |
| 17:43.25 | mrkiko | you should clock the "skip to content" button |
| 17:43.42 | mrkiko | then you will be put on the "Icon Audio Demo" link |
| 17:43.52 | Vegar | oh, levelstar.com |
| 17:43.55 | Vegar | I should read the backlog |
| 17:44.05 | mrkiko | ah.. |
| 17:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (i=bedboi@151.83.9.248) |
| 17:44.11 | mrkiko | the name of the site is www.levelstar.com |
| 17:44.43 | SiO2 | really nice voic. sh has to be blond ;) |
| 17:44.43 | SiO2 | +e +e |
| 17:45.17 | *** join/#openmoko soccerpirate5 (n=x97269@70-101-190-205.dsl2.mon.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 17:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko zamolxes (n=zamolxes@83.166.220.142) |
| 17:47.36 | mrkiko | aniway... |
| 17:48.04 | mrkiko | I hope some late models of the neo will have the keyboard :) |
| 17:48.10 | mrkiko | I know it's very unlikely |
| 17:48.40 | zamolxes | Hello. I understand the software is not yet usable , but is the hardware final? I mean, will there be any hardware updates any time soon? |
| 17:48.41 | aloril | zamolxes: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:48.56 | zamolxes | :) |
| 17:49.00 | zamolxes | botsnack |
| 17:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:49.08 | phrozen77_ | heh |
| 17:49.11 | phrozen77_ | but its right |
| 17:49.14 | phrozen77_ | your answer is in the wiki |
| 17:50.32 | zamolxes | i know it is, botsnack is a (acceptable) form of thank you :) |
| 17:50.53 | SiO2 | http://nopaste.info/cb1286dd1d.html how can i resolve this problem ? |
| 17:51.08 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host194-122-dynamic.14-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:51.17 | zamolxes | aha! http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 I'll wait till october then |
| 17:52.22 | riot | http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/92713 << hah.. German police officially uses (proprietary) gsm-devices to sniff and spy on citizens. Good advertizing for the neo :> |
| 17:53.18 | mrkiko | Does exist a non-proprietary gsm-device? |
| 17:53.19 | woglinde | riot yes but the more power consume is a issue |
| 17:53.33 | woglinde | riot that should warn you |
| 17:53.48 | SiO2 | riot, you will everytime read the sources? remember the problems with the javaanonymize from tu-dresden |
| 17:54.18 | *** join/#openmoko ravan_ (n=ravan@59.93.66.47) |
| 17:54.18 | phrozen77_ | ow well |
| 17:54.41 | riot | woglinde: woot? On a neo, i just turn off the gsm -> less power consumption. |
| 17:54.48 | phrozen77_ | everybody carries these devices which makes locating you 24/7 possible - at their own will |
| 17:55.00 | SiO2 | phrozen77_, ow well, or orsen wells ( or so ;) ) |
| 17:55.03 | riot | phrozen77_: right. Frightening, isn't it? |
| 17:55.17 | phrozen77_ | brainwashed, for sure |
| 17:55.28 | riot | SiO2: aah, i guess, you won't find real backdoors in a well checked linux kernel. |
| 17:55.50 | phrozen77_ | also, i wonder how ppl could survive like 15 years ago |
| 17:55.57 | phrozen77_ | without cellphones |
| 17:56.06 | phrozen77_ | *cough* |
| 17:56.13 | DukeOfUrl | there were payphones everywhere |
| 17:57.47 | SiO2 | riot, and when you use neo, you will be an "gefährder" :( |
| 17:57.57 | phrozen77_ | heh |
| 17:58.04 | phrozen77_ | schäuble will want to kill you |
| 17:58.12 | phrozen77_ | youre gonna get executed |
| 17:58.14 | phrozen77_ | publicly |
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| 17:58.17 | riot | SiO2: thats it.. :/ |
| 17:58.34 | SiO2 | phrozen77_, you understand "gefährder" ? are you german ? |
| 17:58.41 | phrozen77_ | yup |
| 17:59.09 | riot | Funny thing is, schäuble is getting kicked in his ass right now, because everyone is slowly getting convinced that he's nuts.. |
| 17:59.22 | phrozen77_ | he _is_ nuts |
| 17:59.29 | phrozen77_ | or |
| 17:59.33 | phrozen77_ | manic |
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| 17:59.50 | phrozen77_ | either way, _he_ should go to the psychic ward |
| 17:59.51 | riot | yet he became minister of interior... Tells me a lot about our funny democracy. |
| 17:59.57 | phrozen77_ | but instead hes doing politics |
| 18:00.30 | SiO2 | i was thinking long time, people with disabled bodys have a working brain, but schäuble... ( mrkiko nothing against disabled people) |
| 18:00.34 | riot | phrozen77_: have you read about the professor of psychology from TU Munich? He telediagnosed a psychosis... |
| 18:00.51 | SiO2 | riot, on schäuble? |
| 18:00.54 | riot | SiO2: yes. |
| 18:00.58 | SiO2 | merde |
| 18:01.13 | phrozen77_ | SiO2, yeah, its not about being disabled - but somehow it also does something to his brain, obviously |
| 18:01.31 | riot | SiO2: because of the strike on him, which put him into the wheelchair. |
| 18:01.44 | phrozen77_ | he's pretty manic about getting that law & trojan done |
| 18:01.44 | woglinde | riot no when you have a phone with the special police firmware |
| 18:02.03 | riot | And TU Munich (and also this particular professor) has a VERY high reputation... |
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| 18:02.32 | phrozen77_ | heh - nobody will kick his sorry ass outta the parlament, sadly |
| 18:02.40 | phrozen77_ | i dont think thats going to happen |
| 18:02.47 | SiO2 | riot, for this, you don't need to be a prof. you recognize by yourself |
| 18:02.53 | phrozen77_ | indeed |
| 18:03.09 | riot | yes.. just by reading news everyday |
| 18:03.10 | mrkiko | ehi! Listen to http://www.levelstar.net/audio/tutorials/stop_watch.mp3 |
| 18:03.14 | mrkiko | She seems really happy! |
| 18:03.16 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:03.20 | mrkiko | :) |
| 18:03.26 | mrkiko | but Now I may go :) |
| 18:03.30 | georg__ | cd SrRaven |
| 18:03.36 | georg__ | oops |
| 18:03.40 | phrozen77_ | lol |
| 18:03.44 | phrozen77_ | cu MrFeetio |
| 18:03.45 | phrozen77_ | arg |
| 18:03.48 | phrozen77_ | mrkiko |
| 18:04.08 | mrkiko | phrozen77_: :) |
| 18:04.11 | SiO2 | riot, do you have a link |
| 18:04.19 | riot | SiO2: to what? |
| 18:04.36 | SiO2 | to this " have you read about the professor of psychology from TU Munich? He telediagnosed a psychosis.." |
| 18:10.33 | georg__ | lol |
| 18:10.51 | riot | SiO2: hmmm.. i can't find it :/ perhaps our funny minister made it vanish... |
| 18:11.55 | SiO2 | :( |
| 18:13.12 | SiO2 | is ther soma page, where i can find problems with openmokomakefile? |
| 18:13.14 | SiO2 | some |
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| 18:19.36 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hammerhead/Protocol]] [[Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review]] [[BuggyOrders]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
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| 18:41.36 | rtp | ossman: hi. Are you there ? |
| 18:41.54 | ossman | yup |
| 18:42.29 | rtp | being curious, did you get any request for merging the s3cmci driver ? |
| 18:43.02 | ossman | from? |
| 18:43.12 | rtp | Thomas or Harald |
| 18:44.08 | ossman | I asked them if there was an interest, and they said there was. And that's where we still are :) |
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| 18:44.36 | ossman | Ben said he could consider taking on the role of maintainer if samsung weren't interested |
| 18:45.25 | rtp | ok. So things did not move :( |
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| 18:45.56 | rtp | the "problem" with Ben is that he's always overloaded so we won't see a request from him for 2.6.23 |
| 18:46.12 | rtp | and he's busy with sdhci stuff iirc |
| 18:46.14 | ossman | a common problem |
| 18:46.22 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.24) |
| 18:46.26 | ossman | I've been trying to clean up the driver, but time is scarce |
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| 18:47.35 | rtp | hmm. a lot of cleanup ? iirc the driver was not so bad last time I've seen it |
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| 18:49.03 | ossman | no idea, I haven't had time to study it properly. I've just done some minor things so far |
| 18:49.16 | ossman | e.g. it had a bit strange debug message handling |
| 18:49.45 | rtp | yeah, that's mainly why it's not merged yet afaik |
| 18:50.28 | ossman | that, and that noone has actually requested to have it merged ;) |
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| 18:51.07 | webjames | what is used to encrypt the neo's file system? |
| 18:51.10 | rtp | Thomas did it long time ago on rmk's pts and rmk refused it because of the debug message stuff |
| 18:51.20 | summatusmentis | neo's fs is gonna be encrypted? |
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| 18:52.08 | webjames | i thought so? |
| 18:52.18 | webjames | or at least parts of it i would hope |
| 18:53.12 | summatusmentis | what parts? why is that beneficial? |
| 18:53.35 | webjames | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko#Flash |
| 18:53.55 | webjames | because i don't want my data being looked at if my phone is stolen |
| 18:54.57 | summatusmentis | I thought there was some pretty substantial overhead for encryption? |
| 18:55.09 | mmp | Hello, is it possible to use GTA01's USB controller without having neo advanced? Any available user-made port adapter... |
| 18:56.16 | summatusmentis | webjames: looks like it's only between bootloader and flash though... |
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| 18:57.12 | webjames | summatusmentis, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/PIM_Storage#Goals_.26_Objectives |
| 18:57.26 | pH5 | mmp: I thought you just need a standard mini-usb male to usb female adapter. |
| 18:58.05 | SpeedEvil | mmp: the appropriate cable. |
| 18:58.16 | SpeedEvil | Which is not a common one. |
| 18:58.22 | mmp | pH5: ahaa, could be... . I have not looked into datasheets yet... |
| 18:58.27 | SpeedEvil | It needs to break out the 5V to a seperate supply. |
| 18:58.52 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 18:59.27 | summatusmentis | webjames: hrm.. interesting |
| 18:59.54 | mmp | SpeedEvil: hmm, sounds feasible, I guess I should blow out dust from soldering iron:) |
| 19:00.01 | webjames | i don't know if it's anything more than just an idea, i was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts on how? |
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| 19:02.42 | cesarb | webjames: encrypted loopback file on external card should be trivial |
| 19:03.21 | cesarb | webjames: encrypting the internal filesystem is harder, because you'd lose wear leveling if you layered anything below jffs2 |
| 19:03.54 | webjames | it's really only the ext card that data would be held on |
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| 19:07.46 | MangoFusion | shipping $70? yikes |
| 19:08.28 | cesarb | MangoFusion: be happy it's not USD 169 |
| 19:08.33 | MangoFusion | haha true :) |
| 19:09.43 | MangoFusion | in any case he requirement of a credit card has more or less hit the nail in the coffin |
| 19:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko blinkbot2k (n=chatzill@67.106.175.130.ptr.us.xo.net) |
| 19:09.54 | MangoFusion | ;) |
| 19:10.14 | cesarb | MangoFusion: you can ask a friend to pay for you, and wire transfer the amount to him when the shipping is confirmed |
| 19:10.28 | SpeedEvil | Or paypal to him |
| 19:10.30 | cesarb | MangoFusion: it's a win for both, since he would get the money in advance |
| 19:12.11 | MangoFusion | could do yes, though i am thinking now its probably just best to wait for some UK retail outlet or more payment options to arise with GTA02 |
| 19:12.23 | MangoFusion | haha |
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| 19:32.38 | sandos | ugh |
| 19:32.46 | sandos | no viewsvn, only viewcvs? :( |
| 19:33.06 | sandos | o is it called websvn |
| 19:35.56 | Kensan | webjames: about jffs2 and encryption - this might be of interest: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/3/6/137, http://www.inf.u-szeged.hu/jffs2/compression.php |
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| 19:38.10 | webjames | Kensan, thank you |
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| 20:01.52 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 20:01.52 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in a day 15:58:07 (1.665±1.0 days) (1742;246) |
| 20:02.14 | daMaestro | are we still looking at shipping tomorrow w/wait time = shipping selection? |
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| 20:11.37 | cosmin | counter? |
| 20:11.37 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in a day 15:48:22 (1.659±1.0 days) (1743;247) |
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| 20:19.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[P1_Owners]] |
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| 20:24.57 | Markinoko | wao, the dependencies to built openmoko is a steep hill to climb :-) |
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| 20:55.30 | cesarb | counter? |
| 20:55.31 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in a day 15:04:29 (1.628±1.0 days) (1744;248) |
| 20:56.24 | orospakr | is one supposed to get a confirmation once they reply YES_I_DO? |
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| 20:59.00 | galexande | orospakr, apparently not. |
| 20:59.05 | galexande | but you get an error message if you botch it |
| 20:59.11 | orospakr | galexande: ah, good. |
| 20:59.16 | orospakr | good enough, anyway. |
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| 21:04.42 | ynezz | hope they'll ship them tommorow :) |
| 21:07.25 | cesarb | ynezz: I think it's more likely they'll take the whole day actually processing the orders, and start shipping the next day... (and I hope they ship till Tuesday ;-) ) |
| 21:08.29 | Elrond | Anyone seen ph5? |
| 21:08.36 | orospakr | I wonder how long the $12 shipping will take. |
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| 21:08.47 | orospakr | can't be *that* bad, going from California to Ottawa. |
| 21:08.53 | pH5 | Elrond: yeah, occasionally |
| 21:09.51 | Elrond | Huh. |
| 21:09.54 | Elrond | pH5 - Hi! :-) |
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| 21:14.31 | woglinde | nite |
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| 21:28.41 | guerby | note that I got a non-automatic email answer on a sunday from @openmoko.com with Date: 'Sun, 15 Jul 2007 12:28:50 +0200' so there is some overtime in the order department :) |
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| 21:34.36 | aloril | (script) planet: Koen Kooi: Back from Bossaconference http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/back-from-bossaconference |
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| 21:52.02 | *** join/#openmoko superbnerb (n=superbne@CPE0080c8df7759-CM00194757e7b4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 21:52.22 | superbnerb | anyone know if rogers in canada will/can support this gsm phone? |
| 21:52.23 | aloril | superbnerb: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (and also SH1_FAQ, Neo1973, Developer_preview and Neo1973_Hardware#GTA01Bv4 pages) (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:52.53 | anrp | can? sure (gsm, after all) |
| 21:53.01 | anrp | will? they won't help you with it |
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| 21:54.00 | doc|home | superbnerb: do rogers give you sim cards? I know fido (rogers owned) do |
| 21:54.09 | doc|home | and fido have better deals anyway imo |
| 21:54.21 | doc|home | although I haven't looked at data plans |
| 21:54.55 | superbnerb | i've heard they have sim cards, from BB. i just don't know about buying a phone that isn't theirs and how "antsy" they'd be about letting me use it on their network. |
| 21:54.57 | anrp | they all suck |
| 21:55.04 | doc|home | anrp: they do :( |
| 21:55.06 | anrp | but disregarding that, gsm is very standardized |
| 21:55.16 | superbnerb | if you are a canadian, you know what i mean. |
| 21:55.30 | doc|home | telecomms providers in north america seem to suck in general. Paying to receive a call? wtf? |
| 21:55.33 | anrp | they have no say on what gsm phone you use on the network |
| 21:55.45 | anrp | i don't know of any gsm network operator that actually prohibits specific devices |
| 21:55.48 | doc|home | superbnerb: I'm not sure they'd know. |
| 21:56.07 | anrp | now cdma, sure, but thats cause they have that power over you (for activation) |
| 21:56.12 | anrp | but gsm is just the sim |
| 21:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko orino (n=orino@84-74-199-218.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:56.47 | superbnerb | anrp: ahhh, ok, i've always dealt with cdma vendors... which explains the attitude |
| 21:57.16 | Qwell | hmm, so what gets "activated" on gsm networks? |
| 21:57.29 | SpeedEvil | The SIM |
| 21:57.32 | Qwell | ie; why do I pay $35 when I buy a phone from t-mobile? |
| 21:57.41 | SpeedEvil | you can swap it between phones |
| 21:57.42 | Qwell | (besides that I'm a sucker) |
| 21:57.51 | superbnerb | so are all 338 users here developers of software for the phone? or is this mostly a user community, who is anxiously awaiting the launch of the commercial version. |
| 21:57.55 | superbnerb | Qwell: lol. |
| 21:57.59 | SpeedEvil | or you pay for the phone |
| 21:58.12 | SpeedEvil | superbnerb: ues |
| 21:58.12 | Qwell | superbnerb: some mix of both, no doubt |
| 21:58.33 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54929E0D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:59.24 | Qwell | Kero: That's what qemu is for :p |
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| 22:00.08 | Kero | technically, yes. But not enticing enough. |
| 22:00.38 | superbnerb | that's my next question. if i got this hot idea for a software that people can download for money, that is allowed on this phone correct? i.e. the licsense won't disallow capitalism will it? |
| 22:01.24 | Qwell | superbnerb: as long as you follow the licenses of everything you link against, I imagine |
| 22:04.12 | cjb | superbnerb: there is no single license. as long as you don't want to cheat the license of someone *else's* code, it's allowed. |
| 22:04.19 | cjb | (which is always the case with open source.) |
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| 22:05.00 | Qwell | hmm, what's the deal with the openmoko TM? Is there one? |
| 22:05.36 | superbnerb | say, will this box have python or something cool like that in it? |
| 22:06.11 | superbnerb | cool being ruby, python.... or will coding be limited to c or C++ to start? |
| 22:06.34 | *** part/#openmoko administrator (n=chatzill@183.242.203.62.cust.bluewin.ch) |
| 22:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko luke-jr|work (n=luke-jr@ip68-99-14-20.om.om.cox.net) |
| 22:06.58 | cesarb | Hardware question: some time ago, I saw on the mailing list someone worried that starting up the phone without anything in the SIM slot might cause a short. One of the devs said he would look at it, but I never saw a followup. |
| 22:07.32 | cesarb | Would it be possible to use the phone without a SIM (for developing without having to take the SIM off my Razr all the time)? |
| 22:07.43 | cjb | I've used mine without a SIM. Seems fine. |
| 22:07.53 | cesarb | cjb: cool |
| 22:08.28 | cesarb | (now I'm wondering whether the _Razr_ will work without the SIM...) |
| 22:08.43 | Qwell | The Razr doesn't work *with* a SIM :) |
| 22:09.55 | cesarb | Qwell: it makes and receives calls. It sends and receives SMS (already more than the neo currently does). It has J2ME (which crashes the phone a lot, true). And, most important of all, it has bluetooth and is GSM. |
| 22:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko conley (n=ibcliffo@spode.cs.vt.edu) |
| 22:10.43 | Kero | superbnerb: someone put Ruby on it; and otherwise me or someone else will do that :) |
| 22:10.54 | Kero | and I think quite a bit of Python is already being used |
| 22:11.04 | cesarb | Nah, Lua is a better choice, with its ridiculously tiny runtime |
| 22:11.23 | Qwell | sh+awk is all you need :p |
| 22:11.54 | Kero | if footprint were the only consideration... |
| 22:12.15 | cesarb | Granted, that's because we already use Lua at work (heck, we work with the guy who *named* the Lua language) |
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| 22:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust116.tnt1.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
| 22:12.45 | white_gecko | hello |
| 22:12.55 | Kero | named it? That's not Roberto? |
| 22:13.31 | white_gecko | I have OpenMoko running in QEMU |
| 22:13.56 | white_gecko | sometimes there is no clickable area to get the keyboard in the upper left |
| 22:14.03 | white_gecko | how can i get this? |
| 22:14.23 | white_gecko | or, how can i get the keyboard? |
| 22:14.37 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@U4870.u.pppool.de) |
| 22:14.44 | Qwell | if you're running it in qemu, you can add a fake USB keyboard |
| 22:15.20 | white_gecko | how? |
| 22:15.28 | superbnerb | thanks Kero, u a developer or something for the phone? |
| 22:15.34 | cesarb | Kero: I mean the guy who suggested the name "Lua" for the language |
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| 22:18.26 | white_gecko | the strange thing is, sometimes there is an area to click so i get a onscreen keyboard, sometimes it isn't |
| 22:18.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC]] [[OpenMokoFramework]] |
| 22:19.44 | Kero | cesarb: I absolutely forgot who named Lua :) |
| 22:20.49 | cesarb | counter! |
| 22:20.56 | ynezz | strange name |
| 22:21.06 | cesarb | hm, the script does not like the !... |
| 22:21.07 | cesarb | counter |
| 22:21.07 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-14 16:40) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 65% in a day 13:38:52 (1.569±1.0 days) (1745;248) |
| 22:24.12 | white_gecko | i'll tri Xoo http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo |
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| 22:33.48 | white_gecko | ok good night |
| 22:33.51 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust116.tnt1.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
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| 22:44.09 | orospakr | build exploding with this: http://pastebin.ca/621091 |
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| 22:51.30 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=erdinger@f049188078.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:52.18 | dcordes | make quemu is failing with http://www.pastebin.ca/621102 |
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| 22:59.15 | cesarb | dcordes: install lynx |
| 22:59.48 | cesarb | dcordes: the step which downloads the images needs lynx and wget |
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| 23:01.34 | linux_galore | brrr cold this morning |
| 23:01.44 | anrp | time to get an openmoko! |
| 23:01.49 | anrp | ...not that i know how that'll help |
| 23:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko IR1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-92-88.net.novis.pt) |
| 23:02.13 | orospakr | anrp: as an embedded device, I hope it *doesn't* get hot. |
| 23:02.18 | anrp | D; |
| 23:02.31 | anrp | even assuming it flattens the battery in 1 hour thats still only 5W or so |
| 23:02.34 | linux_galore | put an amd cpu in it and it will |
| 23:02.35 | Stephmw | right. there have been enough burnt crotches from overheating macbooks |
| 23:02.53 | anrp | now if it shorts the battery it might explode |
| 23:02.56 | anrp | that would get hot :o |
| 23:02.57 | *** part/#openmoko rmoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-92-88.net.novis.pt) |
| 23:03.24 | anrp | i built a simple load tester here, just a couple pieces of nichrome |
| 23:03.42 | dcordes | cesarb, cheers |
| 23:03.45 | linux_galore | overclock the GTA01 |
| 23:03.46 | anrp | but i'm pushing 25A through two of them at 12v, for 50a@12v, or 600w of heat |
| 23:04.20 | anrp | nichrome is neat stuff |
| 23:05.49 | anrp | .. it also melts the connector, but that's a minor detail |
| 23:05.51 | dcordes | can I use usb with qemu? |
| 23:05.58 | anrp | use in what way? |
| 23:06.06 | anrp | if you mean as a device, yes |
| 23:06.17 | anrp | as a host.. not so sure |
| 23:06.26 | anrp | either way though its a bit convoluted |
| 23:06.29 | dcordes | like using host attached usb device in the emulator |
| 23:06.40 | anrp | that.. not sure |
| 23:06.59 | *** join/#openmoko rmoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-92-88.net.novis.pt) |
| 23:07.52 | anrp | qemu does support it but a) afaik only tested on x86 and b) huge slowdown |
| 23:08.00 | anrp | as in x86 emulated guest |
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| 23:17.38 | superbnerb | so i have qemu, now what do i emulate inside? i.e. where' s the link to the dev kit? |
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| 23:19.32 | anrp | that is .. a very vague question |
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| 23:19.53 | superbnerb | when one doesn't know what to ask, you be vague. lol |
| 23:20.25 | superbnerb | i found the wiki entry for qemu |
| 23:20.27 | superbnerb | thanks boss |
| 23:22.51 | dcordes | the icon for the input manager is missing for me |
| 23:22.51 | anrp | ~_~ |
| 23:22.52 | apt | :/ |
| 23:24.06 | cibomahto | superbnerb: have you looked at the MokoMakefile wiki entry? |
| 23:24.45 | cibomahto | superbnerb: it explains how to get the dev environment up and running, including with qemu |
| 23:26.52 | Markinoko | superbnerb: I'm doing just that at the moment (building with MokoMakefile). As a long time LFS user I must say I find that build system very smooth ! |
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| 23:34.25 | *** part/#openmoko inazouma (n=gcasse@bdy93-1-82-67-223-79.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:36.28 | cibomahto | just out of curiosity, has anyone thought about making a livecd release of some operating system that has the openmoko development environment already set up? |
| 23:37.21 | ynezz | it makes no sense at this point i think, but feel free to make one :) |
| 23:37.58 | dcordes | cibomahto, I would be interested in such a project |
| 23:40.40 | cibomahto | I tend to agree it wouldnt be too useful, but might be useful for someone who just wants to see what the state of the system looks like. |
| 23:41.42 | cibomahto | i have a lot of studying to do just to get comfortable with the openembedded enviroment, i think i'll hold off for a while on attempting to make one |
| 23:42.40 | cibomahto | dcordes: do you have any experiance with making live cd distributions? |
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| 23:43.20 | ynezz | vmware image would be handy also |
| 23:43.20 | dcordes | cibomahto, no |
| 23:44.16 | ynezz | vmware is easier then livecd i think, but customizing knoppix for example wouldn't be hard also |
| 23:44.50 | ynezz | and vmware can be run virtualy anywhere |
| 23:46.18 | cibomahto | ynezz: I was thinking a live cd so that it could be used under qemu |
| 23:47.32 | Stephmw | problem with vmware is... no ppc support |
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| 23:49.31 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@adsl-64-165-72-146.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 23:51.34 | cibomahto | or, more to the point might be just to make some instructions on running a qemu image without setting up the rest of the environment |
| 23:51.42 | cibomahto | since the dev environment is probably going to be changing fairly rapidly |
| 23:53.21 | kristian-m | cibomahto what about providing a chroot-image? |
| 23:53.38 | kristian-m | ..which could also be build for ppc |
| 23:53.48 | cibomahto | if you want to |
| 23:54.51 | kristian-m | cibomahto right, I can get one for x86 ready until tomorrow (including webspace and bandwidth) |
| 23:54.54 | dcordes | how can I set qemu up to make openmoko use host's internet connection? |
| 23:55.34 | kristian-m | dcordes http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Setting_up_USB_connection |
| 23:55.43 | dcordes | tanks |
