| 00:02.34 | alphaone | CoreDump|home: np |
| 00:02.55 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 00:04.48 | pavelm_afc | elrond: Ok, better than nothing :-) |
| 00:04.58 | pavelm_afc | elrond: You need to take it to a trip outside.... |
| 00:05.06 | CoreDump|home | alphaone: thank you! |
| 00:05.11 | CoreDump|home | oops |
| 00:05.30 | pavelm_afc | good night... |
| 00:05.40 | alphaone | CoreDump|home: Keep going. I can't get enough of that :-) |
| 00:05.49 | CoreDump|home | hehe |
| 00:05.56 | mickeyl | heh |
| 00:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:06.48 | alphaone | Yay! I'm finally in sync again with my tax declaration, etc. |
| 00:07.05 | bonan | :) |
| 00:07.40 | *** join/#openmoko fearphage (n=fearphag@xbmc/user/fearphage) |
| 00:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko kalikiana (n=kalikian@xdsl-87-78-20-154.netcologne.de) |
| 00:08.54 | kalikiana | Will openmoko have an xml library onboard? |
| 00:08.55 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:11.33 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. |
| 00:12.45 | Elrond | kalikiana - my neo is just downstairs, trying to get a gps fix. If it's connected back to my box, I can tell you, what libraries are on there by default. |
| 00:13.23 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 00:13.49 | kalikiana | Elrond, Ah, nice :) |
| 00:15.29 | kalikiana | In fact knowing what *will* be there is also fine. I'm mainly interested in what you could expect to work with in the long term. |
| 00:16.05 | SpeedEvil | kalikiana: Almost nothing is set in stone at this point. |
| 00:16.25 | SpeedEvil | Come up with better alternatives to even core software, and it could well get changed. |
| 00:16.35 | mikeleib | kalikiana: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMokoFramework |
| 00:16.42 | mikeleib | see libexpat at the bottom |
| 00:17.00 | mikeleib | in fact, double the fun-- see libxml2 |
| 00:17.39 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@84-12-20-189.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.21 | kalikiana | mikeleib, Thank you. So it has expat and xml2? Isn't that kind of strange? |
| 00:19.30 | kalikiana | Well, I'm happy to see libxml2:D |
| 00:19.43 | mikeleib | the world of free software is that there are at least two of everything.. usually both half done |
| 00:19.53 | kalikiana | *lol |
| 00:20.44 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 00:20.54 | mikeleib | as you can see, fontconfig and dbus use expat and gtk uses libxml2 |
| 00:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko catchjosh_ (n=josh@cpe-24-162-127-162.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 00:23.21 | fearphage | can anyone confirm that moko is booger in chinese or japanese? |
| 00:24.05 | catchjosh_ | Hey, so does anyone know what Harald meant in his blog post on the Planet today? |
| 00:25.43 | MrFeetio | seems like he is stressed |
| 00:26.35 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@201.244.111.1) |
| 00:26.53 | catchjosh_ | Well, I caught that... :) I was just wondering if there is some internal friction that anyone is aware of (other than the normal...:)) |
| 00:29.12 | *** part/#openmoko mikeleib (n=ike@jffwpr03.jf.intel.com) |
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| 00:39.31 | *** join/#openmoko jargonjustin (n=justin@c-24-5-197-55.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 00:40.49 | jargonjustin | Hi all, I'm trying to set up an emulation environment for the OpenMoko (Neo1973 under QEmu) but ran into some problems building from SVN. |
| 00:41.24 | *** part/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:41.28 | jargonjustin | It seems gnokiigsm/device.h uses a __ptr_t macro type but is undefined (line 49 and 50) |
| 00:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur^ (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 00:43.16 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall_ (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-96.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 00:45.19 | jargonjustin | It looks like adding "#define __ptr_t void *" to gnokiigsm/device.h fixed the build issue, is this something I should file a bug for? |
| 00:45.20 | aloril | jargonjustin: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:51.01 | anrp | robots; helpful as always |
| 00:51.08 | anrp | sadly i can't be any more help than him |
| 00:52.40 | don-o | jargonjustin: grep -r shows __prt_t only in the gnokiigsm directory. i figured it was a rather basic macro that would be defined elsewhere. |
| 00:52.53 | don-o | jargonjustin: although i can say my openmoko build completed without any .h patching |
| 00:53.12 | jargonjustin | don-o: I'm on Mac OS X so that may have something to do with it |
| 00:54.07 | don-o | josh_marshall: possibly. im on ubuntu (inside parallels on OS X :) |
| 00:54.52 | don-o | /usr/include/sys/cdefs.h: #define __ptr_t void * |
| 00:55.18 | anrp | maybe one is supposed to use ptr_t |
| 00:55.32 | anrp | __* is generally not supposed to be exported |
| 00:55.39 | don-o | jargonjustin: os x has the same definition: /usr/include/sys/cdefs.h:#define __ptr_t void * |
| 00:55.56 | *** join/#openmoko bharath (n=bharath@c-24-11-216-155.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 00:56.43 | *** join/#openmoko trains (n=chatzill@80.243.90.2) |
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| 01:01.25 | linux_galore | sings "Im a little moko nut as happy as can be" |
| 01:01.47 | linux_galore | :-P |
| 01:01.52 | SpeedEvil | linux_galore: Youtube! |
| 01:05.18 | *** part/#openmoko ^leo^`` (n=user@201.221.33.113) |
| 01:05.51 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 01:05.56 | linux_galore | "every time I make a call I know my phone free" |
| 01:06.05 | linux_galore | is free* |
| 01:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-235.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:09.09 | codyl | linux_galore, you actually manage to call people with it..? |
| 01:11.53 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@bbclaptop.student.umd.edu) |
| 01:11.58 | anrp | hard to without hardware |
| 01:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@144.90.11.17) |
| 01:12.58 | codyl | hopefully mine will show up soon |
| 01:13.58 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 01:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit_ (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:15.10 | codyl | anyone know how I specify color now that they have added it as an option ? :-P |
| 01:15.37 | SpeedEvil | Put it in the comments box |
| 01:15.45 | SpeedEvil | If you're talking of ordering |
| 01:16.09 | codyl | SpeedEvil, already ordered- still no response |
| 01:16.25 | codyl | i think i talked to you two days ago |
| 01:16.37 | sublime | if youve already ordered and recieved an autoresponse message respond to that saying what color you want |
| 01:16.44 | codyl | haha |
| 01:16.46 | codyl | okay then |
| 01:17.06 | codyl | so when will it *actually* ship ? |
| 01:17.27 | sublime | yeah i didnt know to put your color choice in the comments box so i just sent them an email |
| 01:17.44 | sublime | no response about the color choice but hopefully theyll get it |
| 01:17.52 | sublime | and its the best you can do at this point |
| 01:18.46 | codyl | sublime, did you do the order page ? |
| 01:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko mil_ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 01:19.33 | sublime | yeah i did the order page |
| 01:19.43 | codyl|dinner | it was very..rushed :-P |
| 01:20.02 | codyl|dinner | sublime, so do you know when they will actually be shipped ? |
| 01:20.04 | sublime | my order was 1843 which gives me the 23 ordered neo |
| 01:20.16 | sublime | the 16th i believe |
| 01:20.26 | codyl|dinner | ouch |
| 01:20.29 | sublime | theyre on their way from taiwan to cali now |
| 01:20.31 | codyl|dinner | i am 25 96 |
| 01:20.34 | codyl|dinner | * 2596 |
| 01:20.48 | codyl|dinner | how many are there? |
| 01:20.52 | sublime | 1000 |
| 01:21.01 | codyl|dinner | phew |
| 01:21.10 | SpeedEvil | codyl|dinner: people can order up to 11 |
| 01:21.14 | SpeedEvil | in one order. |
| 01:21.14 | don-o | 0penm0k0 |
| 01:21.31 | codyl|dinner | where in cali? |
| 01:21.41 | SpeedEvil | 2596 is really close to the border. |
| 01:21.48 | don-o | fremont, ca. (san francisco bay) |
| 01:21.50 | sublime | yeah and hopefully they made like 90% black/silver becuase the white/orange is freekin ugly if you ask me |
| 01:21.54 | codyl|dinner | SpeedEvil, im scared now |
| 01:22.00 | SpeedEvil | They will make more. |
| 01:22.01 | sublime | and i dont want to be stuck with that color |
| 01:22.02 | codyl|dinner | white/orange is icky |
| 01:22.06 | don-o | white/orange looks like a gradeschool toy |
| 01:22.11 | sublime | it does |
| 01:22.12 | codyl|dinner | sublime, fremont is about 15 minutes from me! |
| 01:22.20 | sublime | tight |
| 01:22.24 | SpeedEvil | It's only $14 to ship. |
| 01:23.01 | SpeedEvil | Not like outside the US. |
| 01:23.01 | sublime | yeah it was 15 three day for me |
| 01:23.01 | SpeedEvil | where it can be $140 |
| 01:23.01 | don-o | i would Love it if someone with a machineshop turned out sweet custom moko cases. |
| 01:23.01 | codyl|dinner | i paid $20 ish |
| 01:23.01 | SpeedEvil | which is insane. |
| 01:23.01 | codyl|dinner | probably no way to just * go get it * right? |
| 01:23.15 | sublime | yeah fkn ~100 to ship to europe is completey outragious |
| 01:23.18 | idarwin | i am getting the orange because it will get people's attention - no point keeping a low profile if you want a revolution :-) Ugly or not. |
| 01:23.22 | sublime | i bet you could just go get it |
| 01:23.31 | codyl|dinner | sublime, who would i contact |
| 01:23.32 | SpeedEvil | I can make a couple of days after obtaining a neo a quality metal case. Only $20. |
| 01:23.37 | sublime | i dont know |
| 01:23.52 | codyl|dinner | sublime, okay- thanks for your help |
| 01:23.54 | sublime | look in the phone book for the FIC building and just show up |
| 01:24.00 | anrp | lol |
| 01:24.04 | don-o | SpeedEvil: that'll be cool |
| 01:24.07 | SpeedEvil | Made from finest quality lead. |
| 01:24.11 | codyl|dinner | sounds like a waste of time |
| 01:24.18 | anrp | what, no cadmium? D: |
| 01:24.31 | don-o | who said there's an FIC building in fremont? its probably some guy's garage. |
| 01:24.33 | SpeedEvil | I actually do have some cadmium. |
| 01:24.35 | anrp | you can get ultra low melting point metals, they just have about 4 different toxic metals in them |
| 01:24.37 | SpeedEvil | And some bismuth. |
| 01:24.39 | anrp | lowest i've seen is 118 F |
| 01:24.46 | anrp | cerrolow? |
| 01:24.54 | SpeedEvil | NaK has melting point of -20C IIRC |
| 01:24.55 | anrp | then of course there's mercury and gallium and such |
| 01:25.04 | SpeedEvil | Of course, it does burst into flames in air. |
| 01:25.07 | sublime | well they said FIC America but i wouldnt doubt it if it is just some dude's mom's basement |
| 01:25.09 | anrp | how cool would that be D: |
| 01:25.26 | don-o | ah so it is. google maps says 5070 Brandin Ct, Fremont Ca. |
| 01:25.40 | don-o | sublime: some dude's mom's basement would be much more l33t |
| 01:25.41 | sublime | MOOOOOOOMMMMMMMMMM WE NEED MORE MEATLOAF THE PHONES JUST CAME IN |
| 01:25.45 | anrp | they don't even have the phones there yet, i think |
| 01:25.47 | don-o | ROTFL |
| 01:26.03 | SpeedEvil | 'The ship carrying the phones sunk'. Oops. |
| 01:26.14 | don-o | ha. they're flying. |
| 01:26.27 | sublime | hey if anyone here works with harrald i think he needs a hug |
| 01:26.37 | sublime | dude sounds like hes gonna flip |
| 01:26.43 | idarwin | stressomatic |
| 01:26.59 | don-o | good thing FIC makes phones and not tasers. |
| 01:27.28 | sublime | funny you should say that, tazer headquarters is in my hometown |
| 01:28.09 | *** join/#openmoko kalikiana__ (n=kalikian@xdsl-84-44-154-27.netcologne.de) |
| 01:35.47 | SpeedEvil | Meatloaf? |
| 01:36.05 | SpeedEvil | Objects in a 2.8" TFT display may appear closer than they are? |
| 01:36.30 | *** join/#openmoko arw_ (i=familia@201.244.109.56) |
| 01:39.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Myfanwy]] [[User:Agent_X]] [[Removal_of_free_space]] [[Digital_gaming]] [[Torch]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Solar_power]] [[Ambient_light_sensor]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_Gentoo]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_Gentoo]] and other changes |
| 01:40.48 | kalikiana__ | SpeedEvil, Typical IT joke, eh? Kind of hard to laugh if you're not a geek :P |
| 01:41.16 | SpeedEvil | It's not especially funny even if you are :) |
| 01:41.49 | bonan | agreed |
| 01:41.50 | bonan | :> |
| 01:43.10 | bonan | Just got home from working for 14 hours :\ |
| 01:43.21 | bonan | Think I'll go to bed too. |
| 01:43.34 | sublime | im at 8 and a half hours with another 3 to go |
| 01:43.51 | sublime | i got locked in the receptionists office for 30min today |
| 01:44.33 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 01:44.34 | sublime | i was trying to decide whether i should call the cops and risk embarrasment or stay the night and start eating my clothes |
| 01:44.50 | sublime | then the janitor walked in when i had my shirt in my mouth |
| 01:44.50 | Marex | sublime, bonan , nothing can be worse than hacking in opie for 8 hours straight |
| 01:44.52 | Marex | :T |
| 01:44.54 | bonan | hehe :) |
| 01:45.13 | Marex | sublime, :D |
| 01:45.44 | sublime | you guys think im joking, im fkn serious |
| 01:45.52 | *** join/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net) |
| 01:50.10 | *** part/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 01:52.38 | *** join/#openmoko kalikiana__ (n=kalikian@xdsl-84-44-178-174.netcologne.de) |
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| 02:01.52 | *** part/#openmoko MrFeeti1 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeeti1 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:03.00 | *** join/#openmoko kalikiana_ (n=kalikian@xdsl-84-44-155-180.netcologne.de) |
| 02:03.11 | MrFeeti1 | i want to see a version/add-on/mod for the neo that jives me some gaming buttons |
| 02:05.39 | Marex | MrFeetio, connect bt keyboard to it :B |
| 02:07.43 | anrp | a bluetooth connected input controller might not be so bad but that doesn't even approach integrated |
| 02:08.54 | MrFeetio | im sure someone will make a small game control add-on for the neo |
| 02:09.00 | cibomahto | a Nintendo Wiimote could work as well... |
| 02:09.25 | arachnid | Hm, that's a good thought :) |
| 02:09.31 | MrFeetio | except you need hands to hold the neo |
| 02:09.49 | arachnid | Well, you could hold them one in each hand if you're just using the accelerometers and buttons. :) |
| 02:09.57 | daMaestro | MrFeetio, i hope so also |
| 02:10.04 | MrFeetio | true |
| 02:10.07 | daMaestro | MrFeetio, i've see some feedback about "where is the keyboard" |
| 02:10.20 | daMaestro | MrFeetio, so i expect someone to do some hardware hacking and come out with a new case |
| 02:10.23 | cibomahto | or you could always get some tape :-) |
| 02:10.34 | daMaestro | MrFeetio, a gaming keyboard sounds awesome |
| 02:10.57 | MrFeetio | the "neo-GP2X-1973" |
| 02:11.10 | MrFeetio | tape fixes everything |
| 02:11.15 | orzo | phone and say "hello?" I answered back "hello." And then he said "can you hear me?" And I said "yes, can you hear me?" And he said "yes" and then I said, I need some help activating my iPhone and then he say "Oh, man, I'm a customer too. I thought you answered to help me!" |
| 02:11.20 | daMaestro | MrFeetio, the *great* part about the neo... you *can* make such changes |
| 02:11.31 | orzo | (just thought that was funny) |
| 02:11.52 | arachnid | yeah. AT&T.competency < 0 |
| 02:12.56 | doc|home | orzo: they connected two customers together? o.O |
| 02:13.19 | happycube | lol! |
| 02:14.11 | MrFeetio | what i want to see is a hard case(the PSP has one) that is a clamshell and the part the covers the creen flips up and has a keyboard |
| 02:14.24 | doc|home | it has usb, you can just connect a usb game pad to it :) |
| 02:14.28 | daMaestro | MrFeetio, spec out some hardware ;-) |
| 02:14.37 | daMaestro | doc|home, more for on-the-go gaming |
| 02:14.41 | doc|home | ah, ok |
| 02:15.11 | daMaestro | MrFeetio, i think there is a request page on the wiki |
| 02:15.50 | MrFeetio | it would be after market and it wouldnt involve any form of modding |
| 02:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko kalikiana (n=kalikian@xdsl-84-44-177-59.netcologne.de) |
| 02:16.33 | MrFeetio | there is a unpoweredmicrousb(1.1) on the neo right? |
| 02:17.04 | daMaestro | yes |
| 02:17.08 | MrFeetio | but it would make the neo larger |
| 02:17.12 | MrFeetio | and tougher |
| 02:17.26 | cibomahto | it might be easier to tap into the I2C or SPI bus and a small microcontroller to handle the buttons |
| 02:18.10 | MrFeetio | does that involve opening case? |
| 02:18.41 | arachnid | yes |
| 02:18.53 | MrFeetio | i want to use the usb so i dont have to open the case |
| 02:19.10 | cibomahto | were you thinking about making something to clip onto the current case? |
| 02:19.10 | MrFeetio | yes |
| 02:19.10 | cibomahto | ok, understood |
| 02:19.20 | arachnid | You'd need an external power source |
| 02:19.20 | cibomahto | I believe you would need to provide your own power source then as well |
| 02:19.32 | MrFeetio | for buttons? |
| 02:19.42 | MrFeetio | and a joystick |
| 02:19.43 | arachnid | To provide power to the USB controller |
| 02:20.02 | MrFeetio | what is an unpowered USB port good for? |
| 02:20.21 | happycube | plugging into a powered hub |
| 02:20.27 | *** join/#openmoko James|24 (n=Allo@bas7-montreal28-1178023179.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:20.33 | MrFeetio | it should be powered |
| 02:20.35 | happycube | if it *was* powered it would wipe the battery out incredibly fast |
| 02:20.36 | orzo | is teh difference between usb 1.1 and usb 2.0 the power? |
| 02:20.39 | MrFeetio | ohhh |
| 02:20.46 | happycube | 2.0 adds 480Mb/sec support |
| 02:20.47 | MrFeetio | no |
| 02:20.52 | arachnid | MrFeetio: USB requires 5v. No other component of the Neo does |
| 02:20.53 | MrFeetio | its the data tranfer rate |
| 02:20.54 | orzo | oh |
| 02:20.59 | arachnid | So it'd have to have a 5v line just for the USB port |
| 02:21.06 | happycube | you can have 12Mb/sec USB 2.0 compliant devices |
| 02:21.07 | arachnid | And all the relevant power-consuming circuitry |
| 02:21.09 | happycube | and hence a ... |
| 02:21.26 | happycube | the battery would also have to be xbox hueg |
| 02:21.28 | MrFeetio | what kind of battery would be needed? watch? |
| 02:21.42 | MrFeetio | (for the attachment) |
| 02:21.48 | arachnid | If you wanted it to last any time at all, I think you'd need at least one AAA |
| 02:21.57 | orzo | is there a cord that adapts an ordinary power socket to be a usb port for charging the phone? |
| 02:21.58 | happycube | probably 3-4 of them really |
| 02:22.02 | arachnid | But you'll need space for the buttons and to grip it anyway, right? |
| 02:22.10 | happycube | 1 AAA would last <1hr |
| 02:22.25 | MrFeetio | damn |
| 02:22.30 | arachnid | happycube: Eh? Just to power a single USB controller? I don't think so. |
| 02:22.30 | happycube | with a 2.5W (max allowed!) device |
| 02:22.42 | happycube | the controller's active you just need to feed the 5v |
| 02:22.45 | orzo | an AAA is 1.5 volts |
| 02:22.57 | arachnid | orzo: You can get pretty efficient inverting regulators these days |
| 02:22.57 | orzo | you'd have to transform it to 5 |
| 02:23.04 | arachnid | Esp. if you're happy with an external inductor |
| 02:23.11 | happycube | a low power device might last ok |
| 02:23.28 | happycube | but 4 AA's would be a lot better |
| 02:23.33 | MrFeetio | i just plan on making some 3d models of the attachment |
| 02:23.38 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 02:23.39 | *** join/#openmoko donut (n=donut@c-24-6-151-58.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:23.40 | MrFeetio | so i should make space for four? |
| 02:23.41 | arachnid | It's a USB device controller, not a host, so all it needs is enough power for the logic |
| 02:23.57 | arachnid | I think 1 or at most 2 AAAs would probably be fine, personally |
| 02:24.02 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@208-78-103-131.slicehost.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:24.05 | MrFeetio | ok |
| 02:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko schonstal (n=schonsta@ash.osuosl.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:24.09 | orzo | will usb 1.1 be good enough to support typical mass storage devices? |
| 02:24.11 | arachnid | But your best bet would be to look up the power consumption requirements on a USB device controller |
| 02:24.14 | *** join/#openmoko bartel (n=bartel@ash.osuosl.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:24.18 | *** join/#openmoko schula (i=uli@dino.spamt.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:24.19 | arachnid | orzo: Only if you don't mind slow transfer rate |
| 02:24.33 | MrFeetio | where can i find 3-d rendered models of the neo? |
| 02:24.35 | arachnid | And then factor in about 80% efficiency for the inverting regulator |
| 02:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko cdbot2 (n=cdbot2@hentges.net) |
| 02:25.51 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 02:25.59 | arachnid | It's just a shame the neo doesn't (AFAIK) have any external connectors that can export power |
| 02:26.23 | orzo | the audio jack |
| 02:26.25 | orzo | heh |
| 02:26.36 | arachnid | heh |
| 02:26.50 | arachnid | "This game adaptor will only work if you have the volume up loud" |
| 02:27.07 | MrFeetio | that was what i was thinking |
| 02:27.38 | orzo | what are we discussing? |
| 02:27.44 | orzo | the gamepad case idea? |
| 02:27.48 | MrFeetio | yea |
| 02:28.04 | arachnid | MrFeetio wants to make one that doesn't require modifying the existing case |
| 02:28.10 | arachnid | And just plugs into the USB |
| 02:28.14 | orzo | couldn't you just make leads from the battery? |
| 02:28.15 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 02:28.23 | orzo | oh |
| 02:28.45 | MrFeetio | my current idea is to have a protective case(clamshell) over the entire phone |
| 02:28.46 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 02:28.51 | orzo | well thats fine |
| 02:28.58 | orzo | just add some extra batteries with it |
| 02:28.58 | MrFeetio | the part that covers the phone, flips down |
| 02:29.07 | MrFeetio | *phone=screen |
| 02:29.15 | orzo | maybe one of those flat calculator type batteries |
| 02:29.40 | arachnid | We were discussing that |
| 02:29.48 | MrFeetio | no AAA for grip, cause you will be holding the add-on case not the neo |
| 02:29.59 | MrFeetio | im open to ideas |
| 02:30.08 | orzo | what does AAA have to do with grip? |
| 02:30.10 | arachnid | I doubt a button cell would have enough power for a USB device controller for long |
| 02:30.27 | arachnid | MrFeetio: Won't you have a whole lot of unused space required to fit all the buttons in comfortably anyway? |
| 02:30.28 | orzo | well, are we modifying an existing usb controller? |
| 02:30.30 | MrFeetio | because it will need batterys for power |
| 02:31.23 | MrFeetio | how much power does a small BT keyboard use? |
| 02:31.24 | orzo | seems like you'd have plenty of space |
| 02:31.45 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 02:31.52 | MrFeetio | im just trying to figure out how to power this thing |
| 02:32.01 | *** join/#openmoko kalikiana__ (n=kalikian@xdsl-213-168-120-34.netcologne.de) |
| 02:32.11 | arachnid | Like I said, best bet is to find a suitable usb controller and look up its power consumption specs |
| 02:32.53 | orzo | old fassioned analog pc gamepads could run off of whatever was provided on the serial game ports |
| 02:33.52 | arachnid | Indeed, but they didn't need any circuitry |
| 02:34.20 | arachnid | They just closed circuits on certain pins with switches |
| 02:35.03 | orzo | probably could use the audio jack |
| 02:35.40 | orzo | for data and power both |
| 02:35.43 | orzo | heh |
| 02:35.55 | orzo | along with audio too |
| 02:36.50 | orzo | iduno |
| 04:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 04:22.22 | *** topic/#openmoko is wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later |
| 04:22.22 | spikebike | tilt tilt tilt |
| 04:22.30 | spikebike | bang bang bang |
| 04:22.32 | spikebike | reload! |
| 04:22.47 | *** part/#openmoko opampca (n=opampca@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 04:22.53 | galexande | i still am not seeing convincing circle-strafe |
| 04:23.05 | spikebike | there's TWO 3d acceleratomers right? |
| 04:23.13 | galexande | um, i'm not sure, i do think all 3 axes are covered |
| 04:23.20 | galexande | they're supposedly as low-end as accelerometers come |
| 04:23.31 | spikebike | still |
| 04:23.35 | spikebike | so are the wii's |
| 04:23.42 | galexande | yeah, that's what i was thinking too |
| 04:23.51 | spikebike | pretty sure there are TWO |
| 04:23.53 | galexande | but it definitely does not have a gyro |
| 04:23.58 | spikebike | so you get more than x,y, and z |
| 04:24.12 | galexande | i think it is two 2-d ones so one axis is covered twice, but not well enough really to detect rotation orthogonal to it |
| 04:24.24 | spikebike | specs claim 2 3'd |
| 04:24.27 | spikebike | 2 3d's |
| 04:24.28 | galexande | ok :) |
| 04:24.40 | spikebike | although there was a mention of not picking the exact chip so maybe it will change |
| 04:25.02 | spikebike | I suspect 99% of folks will be happy if the screen rotates when you rotate it |
| 04:25.13 | galexande | yeah, i think it can be used for control too though |
| 04:25.41 | spikebike | in any case I'd skip the GPS...seems kinda silly |
| 04:25.53 | spikebike | but the gta02 is pretty close to the mark and if it works out well I'll get one |
| 04:27.01 | galexande | i got it!!! fundamentally to circle-strafe you need 3 axes... turn (rotate), slide (strafe), and run (forward/back), so you can do one pair on the touch screen, and the remaining axis can be the pitch of your voice! |
| 04:27.06 | galexande | so you would be singing into the microphone :) |
| 04:27.13 | galexande | and the mic would also pick up taps on the case to fire! |
| 04:27.42 | galexande | i'm crazy about the GPS, I'd never thought about it before but now i can't imagine getting a device without it |
| 04:28.04 | spikebike | dunno, a gps is so easy to add |
| 04:28.12 | spikebike | I keep one in my fanny pack |
| 04:28.21 | spikebike | anything with bluetooth can connect |
| 04:28.30 | spikebike | it's 10 times better then the one in any cell phone |
| 04:28.35 | spikebike | and lasts 300 hours in a charge |
| 04:28.38 | spikebike | on |
| 04:28.49 | galexande | it's never seemed worth it to me, i travel so light, but if there's no size penalty, i'll gladly carry it inisde another device |
| 04:28.59 | Aria | Ditto. |
| 04:29.23 | spikebike | any additional chip = more design time, more expensive, more weight/thickness, delay for delivery etc. |
| 04:29.35 | galexande | yeah, if it had been my choice, i wouldn't have done it. :) |
| 04:29.49 | spikebike | so I use my nokia 770 heavily |
| 04:29.54 | galexande | i'm just excited to be getting my first gps device, coincidentally it runs linux and makes phonecalls too |
| 04:30.09 | spikebike | it's thin (thinner the the new) about the same weight, has a much better screen, wifi, and no gps |
| 04:30.11 | galexande | does the n770 talk bt? |
| 04:30.14 | spikebike | s/new/neo/ |
| 04:30.34 | spikebike | heh |
| 04:30.47 | spikebike | yeah the 770 talks bt |
| 04:30.51 | galexande | it seems you are living the dream with your personal area network :) |
| 04:31.01 | spikebike | oh and less than 1/2 the price |
| 04:31.17 | galexande | yeah i almost bought an n770 before i learned about the neo because it is so cheap! |
| 04:31.18 | spikebike | what would totally rock would be a bt GSM device |
| 04:31.34 | spikebike | so you could add cellular to any bt device |
| 04:31.38 | spikebike | like say a $129 770 ;-) |
| 04:31.52 | Ycros | there are cheap phones that do BT |
| 04:31.54 | linux_galore | just saw a Nokia 6300, sweet phone for the price, very thin |
| 04:32.04 | galexande | i'm addicted to having everything in one device, though. i only carry one thing around, and for now that means the cellphone comes with and the pda stays home |
| 04:32.12 | spikebike | nah I want a gsm device just like my gps |
| 04:32.23 | galexande | i hate camera phones, but someday i'll have one and it'll change my life |
| 04:32.26 | spikebike | cheap, awesome battery life, durable, small, can hide it anywhere |
| 04:32.33 | linux_galore | makes mt N95 look like a brick |
| 04:32.38 | linux_galore | my* |
| 04:32.45 | spikebike | like say where it gets better reception |
| 04:32.50 | spikebike | like against a high window |
| 04:33.43 | linux_galore | galexande: closest I have come is either a Toshiba G900 or a Nokia N95 with a bluetooth keyboard |
| 04:33.57 | spikebike | cheap sell phones are a pain in the ass to use, have a lousy gui, fragile, and have terrible batteries |
| 04:34.06 | spikebike | cell phones |
| 04:34.52 | spikebike | not to mention I don't particularly want to irradiate my head with gsm all the time |
| 04:34.53 | *** join/#openmoko pmhaddad (i=phaddad@dialup-4.229.207.149.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) |
| 04:34.54 | linux_galore | If Nokia made a phone that was like the N800 it would be dead on for me |
| 04:35.02 | galexande | well, my cheap cell phone looks like and is as fragile as a brick :) |
| 04:35.08 | spikebike | heh |
| 04:35.12 | spikebike | gal mine as well |
| 04:35.13 | galexande | i walked half a mile in the pouring rain and talked on it, in the pouring rain, and it still works great |
| 04:35.28 | spikebike | 6 year old monochrome ummm t42 or something |
| 04:35.47 | galexande | heh sanyo scp4700, even cheaper :) |
| 04:35.52 | spikebike | ah siemens |
| 04:36.09 | linux_galore | my none company phone (personal weekend and family unit) is a crappy Sony/Ericsson unit with bugger all features but the battery lasts for ages |
| 04:36.15 | spikebike | I've dropped it at 15mph onto the street several times |
| 04:36.22 | linux_galore | I found it thrown out lol |
| 04:36.33 | galexande | spike, shouldn't talk while you're biking |
| 04:37.04 | spikebike | I'm not usually |
| 04:37.13 | spikebike | doesn't keep it from jumping out of a shirt pocket |
| 04:37.28 | spikebike | and when I do I'm usually alone on a bike path (not in traffic) |
| 04:37.38 | linux_galore | but that brings up another issue, all these media/pda/phones are nice but the battery just doesnt last |
| 04:37.55 | linux_galore | N95 = 2 days |
| 04:38.06 | galexande | heh, i had one hand on a shipping box and one hand on a cellphone and thank god for the uphill or i'd have had no brakes |
| 04:38.19 | linux_galore | crappy 4 year old Sony/Ericsson = 6 days |
| 04:38.33 | spikebike | my gps 10+ days ;-) |
| 04:38.42 | galexande | galore, i hope we can hack the neo to last... |
| 04:38.53 | spikebike | if there was a $50 gps modules I'd leave one at work and home |
| 04:39.03 | spikebike | and incoming/outgoing calls would use whichever is within range |
| 04:39.03 | galexande | i get the impression in gta01bv3, it leaked current like crazy, so gta01bv4 is an untried experiment in power saving |
| 04:39.26 | *** join/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@216.184.49.11) |
| 04:39.27 | linux_galore | spikebike: N95 has GPS |
| 04:39.27 | spikebike | btw the gta02 battery sounded pretty large |
| 04:39.45 | blindcoder | moin |
| 04:39.52 | spikebike | 1700 mah? |
| 04:39.58 | blindcoder | CM: stop poking me while I enjoy my intelligence-sleep :P |
| 04:40.28 | linux_galore | spikebike: yeah it is considering I have seen PDA/Phones with 850-1100mah |
| 04:40.33 | spikebike | then again I guess with a 640x480, 400 Mhz cpu, graphics accelerator, gps, 2 acceleromters, wifi, bluetooth etc... |
| 04:40.53 | spikebike | hmm my nokia 770 is prolly the closest.. I'll check the battery |
| 04:41.54 | linux_galore | hmm put a solar collector on the rear of the NEO |
| 04:41.55 | *** part/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@216.184.49.11) |
| 04:42.12 | spikebike | can't tell it says only 3.7V |
| 04:42.50 | linux_galore | spikebike: its 1100 mah |
| 04:43.00 | spikebike | ah, pretty sure my gps is as well |
| 04:43.23 | spikebike | ah 1000 even |
| 04:43.59 | spikebike | I'm hoping the neo feels... like a phone... I don't mind it's a big bigger/thicker than others |
| 04:44.15 | linux_galore | spikebike: you can get a 1500mah unit from the n800 on ebay |
| 04:44.45 | spikebike | interesting, I'm really happy with the n770 battery life |
| 04:45.13 | spikebike | even after 3 hours with the display on and the gps going I usually arrive with a fully battery |
| 04:45.16 | linux_galore | spikebike: makes you wonder how long the neo will last with some decent power management |
| 04:45.38 | ferric | we can hack the power mgmt |
| 04:45.51 | ferric | make it last forever |
| 04:46.08 | linux_galore | ferric: yeah, 2 weeks on a single charge in wait stait |
| 04:46.12 | linux_galore | state* |
| 04:46.17 | ferric | yea |
| 04:46.50 | linux_galore | right now many of the PDA phones just dont last |
| 04:46.53 | spikebike | kinda surprised they went with a video accelerator |
| 04:47.13 | spikebike | especially with video accel on the cpu so common.. not to mention the faster cpu |
| 04:47.17 | linux_galore | if we can get the neo working for a week it would be a major bonus |
| 04:48.04 | *** join/#openmoko pmhaddad (i=phaddad@dialup-4.229.207.161.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) |
| 04:48.12 | linux_galore | spikebike: there are up and down sides with set chipsets also some have poor FOSS drivr support |
| 04:48.16 | linux_galore | ups* |
| 04:48.19 | *** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 04:48.25 | spikebike | set chipsets? |
| 04:48.36 | galexande | spike, did you order a gta01? |
| 04:48.46 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=jelwell@12.167.160.5) |
| 04:48.49 | linux_galore | yeah, some restrict you to certain io stuff others dont then you have the cost |
| 04:49.01 | spikebike | nah, thinking of waiting to the gta02 |
| 04:49.07 | spikebike | or at least a more mature/reviews gta01 |
| 04:49.27 | linux_galore | yeah. GTA01 barely dial right now |
| 04:49.31 | galexande | oh well, i was looking forward to seeing what kind of hacks you would do to one :) |
| 04:49.32 | linux_galore | dials* |
| 04:49.50 | linux_galore | galexande: anything you want |
| 04:49.54 | spikebike | I don't really need much more than dials |
| 04:50.00 | spikebike | my current phone does little else |
| 04:50.16 | spikebike | but I'd want decent battery life, reliability, etc. |
| 04:50.17 | ferric | i think there's a huge market for a cheap phone that dials, and has a sane UI |
| 04:50.59 | spikebike | I was hoping the motorola electronic ink phone was cool for $50 |
| 04:51.02 | spikebike | not being sold here |
| 04:51.04 | linux_galore | ferric: yeah, I have a feeling one of the big three makes a phone with a big screen large text and basically dials and thats it, its sold on Europe |
| 04:51.14 | linux_galore | in* |
| 04:51.15 | spikebike | very simple, great battery life, great loudness, great reception, not much else |
| 04:51.22 | ferric | that's the hard part to do |
| 04:51.27 | ferric | good reception |
| 04:51.35 | ferric | nokia does a fairly good job, actually |
| 04:51.42 | Jason1 | ferric: I think LinuxDevices had an article on a Motorola that featured a black/white e-paper display, and had a very streamlined feature set |
| 04:51.56 | spikebike | yup, same one |
| 04:51.59 | ferric | yeah the e-ink phone |
| 04:52.01 | spikebike | the nokia 770 has amazing wifi |
| 04:52.09 | spikebike | laptops usually get 2-3 aps |
| 04:52.15 | linux_galore | Jason1: yeah, the standby time on it is huge too |
| 04:52.16 | spikebike | 770 gets a dozen or more in the same place |
| 04:52.36 | linux_galore | e-ink can run for nearly a month |
| 04:52.51 | spikebike | I think it's zero |
| 04:52.58 | spikebike | only for chances |
| 04:53.09 | spikebike | er changes |
| 04:53.15 | Jason1 | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5567800205.html |
| 04:53.35 | linux_galore | spikebike: its funny one of the main complaints with the n770 was poor wifi performance |
| 04:53.49 | spikebike | really? |
| 04:53.53 | spikebike | never heard that |
| 04:53.57 | linux_galore | yeah, they fixed it in the n800 |
| 04:53.59 | codyl|dinner | it sucked .. |
| 04:54.10 | spikebike | about 6 friends got em with the last price drop, all seem amazed |
| 04:54.13 | CM | spikebike: AFAIK, the battery life is horrible on the Neo |
| 04:54.14 | spikebike | as have I |
| 04:54.39 | spikebike | CM not to surprising, hopefully the gta02 is better |
| 04:54.51 | spikebike | is teh gta01 the same battery? Hell it might not even be sleeping |
| 04:54.52 | linux_galore | spikebike: n800 has a faster cpu bigger battery and new wifi setup and the screen is brighter |
| 04:55.05 | codyl|dinner | i thought it had a 1200mAh Li-Ion |
| 04:55.06 | CM | A faster processor and gpu will surely help |
| 04:55.18 | spikebike | linux_galore: yeah, and is more fragile, somes with no screen protection, and doesn't sleep as well |
| 04:55.20 | codyl|dinner | which should be plenty with no wifi |
| 04:55.32 | spikebike | I think the n770 has a beautiful screen |
| 04:55.41 | spikebike | I usually run it at fairly low brightness |
| 04:55.42 | CM | codyl|dinner: It has, but the P0 guys says worst case it's only lasting a few hours |
| 04:55.51 | CM | The screen sucks a lot of battery |
| 04:56.06 | spikebike | 770 allows for one second access, slip off, wake up, usable. |
| 04:56.07 | codyl | CM, something sounds HORRIBLY wrong with that |
| 04:56.13 | spikebike | one second sleep |
| 04:56.16 | spikebike | can leave it for days |
| 04:56.22 | codyl | needs dynamic tick patch |
| 04:56.28 | spikebike | n800 = play with a zippered bag that doesn't protect that well |
| 04:56.32 | codyl | is suspend/resume working? |
| 04:56.54 | linux_galore | spikebike: you can get a fold out wallet cover |
| 04:57.13 | spikebike | n800 = laptop durability |
| 04:57.26 | spikebike | n770 = better than most cell phones |
| 04:57.44 | linux_galore | n770 is pretty good for the price |
| 04:57.47 | CM | codyl: No, the power management is still bad at the neo |
| 04:57.49 | spikebike | I wish nokia upgraded the n770 with the n800 cpu/dsp/ram/flash |
| 04:57.58 | codyl | CM, sad.. |
| 04:58.02 | linux_galore | find a cheap mobile with wifi and a n770 and your have everything |
| 04:58.04 | CM | Yes, that worries me |
| 04:58.05 | spikebike | cm why would faster cpu/gpu help? |
| 04:58.32 | CM | spikebike: Because it can do what it's supposed to do faster, then go back to sleep again |
| 04:58.48 | spikebike | linux_galore, hmm, I thinking gta02, or maybe a theoretically future nokia n series with gsm |
| 04:58.48 | CM | It needs to be sleeping a lot more of the time |
| 04:59.00 | spikebike | seems like the graphics accel might suck way too much power |
| 04:59.22 | spikebike | seems like many of the CPUs have video accell, seems WAY lower power for the simple stuff like bitblt |
| 04:59.23 | linux_galore | did someone see the video were they themed a n770 to have the GUI setup and sounds of a startrek data entry pad |
| 04:59.32 | linux_galore | on youtube |
| 04:59.36 | spikebike | sounds vaguely familar |
| 05:00.10 | LetoTo | cool. xoo package got approved on fedora. I've build it for devel. F-7 failed to koji build with a timeout |
| 05:00.16 | linux_galore | spikebike: well dont get a N95 unlesss you dock it every night to retrieve podcasts |
| 05:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 05:00.24 | spikebike | or maybe a razr2 or z6 if motorola catches a clue |
| 05:00.53 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 05:00.55 | LetoTo | now i just need harald/sean to approve the use of the nei/openmoko skins |
| 05:01.02 | linux_galore | spikebike: Z6 is locked in though, may aswell get a A1200 ming pda/phone and save $300 |
| 05:01.21 | spikebike | yeah the 1200 looks pretty nice as well |
| 05:01.37 | spikebike | there's rumors of a usa version so you don't have to hack it to be able to read the menus |
| 05:01.38 | CM | LetoTo: stefan_schmidt did the qemu Neo skin, I think |
| 05:01.39 | linux_galore | spikebike: ive used a ming its actually really nice for the money |
| 05:01.43 | spikebike | yeah |
| 05:01.47 | spikebike | looks that way. |
| 05:01.50 | spikebike | Have you used the 1200? |
| 05:01.55 | linux_galore | yes |
| 05:01.57 | codyl | A1200 ROCKS |
| 05:01.58 | LetoTo | cm: but he doesnt own the copyright :) |
| 05:02.09 | CM | Hehe, true true :) |
| 05:02.13 | spikebike | so if I buy one and it shows up, what do I have to do to make it useful? |
| 05:02.18 | spikebike | Isn't it in chinese or something? |
| 05:02.24 | linux_galore | spikebike: for the money you pay for a ming its actually very good and it runs Linux |
| 05:02.34 | codyl | spikebike, takes two seconds to change the language |
| 05:02.44 | spikebike | from the phone or reflashing it? |
| 05:02.54 | LetoTo | cool, someone bid on my parawireless phone. So in a week I'll have the money and got rid of it and will be able to get the openmoko instead :) |
| 05:02.55 | codyl | settings -> language -> english |
| 05:02.56 | linux_galore | spikebike: looks very techie too so you get geek points |
| 05:02.56 | spikebike | runs linux... but can I actually program it? |
| 05:03.10 | spikebike | codyl wow, had no idea |
| 05:03.24 | codyl | hahaha |
| 05:03.39 | codyl | spikebike, if you would like to know that in chinese- i can help |
| 05:03.40 | spikebike | I see giant discussions about hacked firmware, etc. |
| 05:03.45 | linux_galore | I dont like the name though "Ming" sounds like "minge" |
| 05:03.56 | codyl | i hacked mine to turn on the EDGE radio |
| 05:04.02 | spikebike | motorola announced a quad band version for the english market with edge |
| 05:04.08 | spikebike | codyl where are you |
| 05:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 05:04.14 | LetoTo | fc6 xoo build is queued up too |
| 05:04.17 | codyl | spikebike huh .. ? |
| 05:04.30 | spikebike | where are you physically? |
| 05:04.35 | linux_galore | spikebike: no its pretty locked up, there are people hacking the A1200 though |
| 05:04.48 | codyl | spikebike, Mountain View, CA |
| 05:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 05:04.59 | spikebike | ah, I'm in davis, ca |
| 05:05.00 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 05:05.08 | codyl | im near google |
| 05:05.25 | spikebike | sad that the a1200 is locked down |
| 05:05.34 | codyl | (actually more important, im near castro street- yummy chinese food) |
| 05:05.48 | codyl | spikebike, you can still run apps on it- not that hard |
| 05:06.04 | codyl | and personally and I use so many java apps on it |
| 05:06.11 | codyl | which seamless work as if they were Qt apps |
| 05:06.13 | linux_galore | spikebike: well it does everything you want though, they put tons of software on the thing |
| 05:06.13 | Jason1 | codyl, How durable is that clear plastic cover? |
| 05:06.24 | codyl | Jason1, still unscratched after a year |
| 05:06.40 | spikebike | thats sounding tempting, where would you buy a ming? |
| 05:06.55 | linux_galore | spikebike: heard someone has got a terminal working on a ming |
| 05:07.00 | Jason1 | codyl: I was looking at the a1200 for a while... that was my biggest concern. Then, I found openmoko, and I have been waiting for it for 6 months :) |
| 05:07.34 | codyl | spikebike, various webshops mostly in LA |
| 05:07.48 | linux_galore | spikebike: they sell the thing all over the world, just googe it ie motorola ming best price |
| 05:08.38 | linux_galore | they cost about US$200 |
| 05:08.52 | spikebike | http://www.cell2get.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=228 $269 |
| 05:09.16 | linux_galore | spikebike: I pay about that in AUD lol |
| 05:09.30 | spikebike | I guess gen 2 of that phone is just hitting... the JUIX platform |
| 05:09.48 | spikebike | rokr e2, e6, z6, razr 2 v8 |
| 05:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-71-225.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 05:09.58 | xkr47 | I have a new hobby this week |
| 05:10.00 | spikebike | well only the z6 v8 = juix |
| 05:10.10 | xkr47 | every morning I get up, I check my mailbox for mail from openmoko :) |
| 05:10.19 | duffyd | xkr47: lol |
| 05:10.51 | Jason1 | xkr47: I wish I only checked mine in the morning :) |
| 05:11.22 | xkr47 | Jason1, yeah ok.. I have new hobbies.. :) |
| 05:11.29 | xkr47 | Jason1, cg on being nr 1 :) |
| 05:11.32 | Jason1 | xkr47: LOL |
| 05:11.37 | codyl | spikebike, yupp - fuck iPhone :-P |
| 05:11.49 | Jason1 | xkr47: thanks, it took alot of work :) |
| 05:11.49 | xkr47 | codyl, only until it runs openmoko :) |
| 05:12.01 | codyl | xkr47, it will boot new kernels..worth a shot |
| 05:12.04 | xkr47 | Jason1, a perl script and huge bandwidth for reloading the front page ?-D |
| 05:12.14 | linux_galore | spikebike: just checked that not a bad price |
| 05:12.18 | ChumleyEX | well honestly I'm worried that the /bin won't fully work with the dev on a true and full flavored foundation. Of course this is in regards to the total lack of scalable streams that belong to the 8602 chip that is attached to the larger chip with the you know what |
| 05:12.27 | linux_galore | thats* |
| 05:12.31 | spikebike | one of my favorite nokia 770 aps is maemo mapper |
| 05:12.43 | spikebike | awesome maps, tricorder style... without a net connection |
| 05:12.53 | spikebike | I guess I could write it in java |
| 05:12.54 | xkr47 | yeah |
| 05:13.06 | xkr47 | java rules except if you have to do gui stuff ;-) |
| 05:13.09 | spikebike | just need 500-1024 MB of local storage |
| 05:13.13 | *** join/#openmoko gerikes (n=mhildret@pool-72-70-245-142.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:13.15 | linux_galore | spikebike: I think the Nokia N series will set the new standard for PDA's |
| 05:13.22 | ChumleyEX | yes Java is the answer |
| 05:13.25 | ChumleyEX | I'm so blind |
| 05:13.32 | ChumleyEX | :=) |
| 05:13.40 | spikebike | n series = 770/800? |
| 05:13.40 | linux_galore | heh, run java on the NEO |
| 05:13.42 | xkr47 | ChumleyEX, that's why openmoko has audio output as well :) |
| 05:13.44 | spikebike | or n seris = 75/95? |
| 05:13.54 | ChumleyEX | hehe |
| 05:13.57 | linux_galore | spikebike: 770/800 |
| 05:14.08 | xkr47 | have you gotten emails on the mailing list lately ? |
| 05:14.18 | spikebike | I hope so... after all the palm totally ruled the pda market |
| 05:14.21 | spikebike | mostly because of apps |
| 05:14.22 | Jason1 | xkr47: nope, not one |
| 05:14.23 | xkr47 | think it's been silent for over a day for me |
| 05:14.23 | linux_galore | Sun have a java sdk for mobile phones |
| 05:14.30 | gcb77 | I got 3 about an hour ago |
| 05:14.30 | spikebike | being open and devel friendly |
| 05:14.34 | xkr47 | :/ |
| 05:14.38 | gcb77 | then nothing |
| 05:14.44 | spikebike | is every other pda/cell phone/mp3 player open/devel friendly.... NOOOOOO |
| 05:14.48 | xkr47 | we should collect money so they get new servers |
| 05:15.01 | Jason1 | xkr47: just gave 'em all our money :) |
| 05:15.10 | xkr47 | I mean it just sucks if we can't discuss openmoko on the ml now at it's greatest moment |
| 05:15.10 | CM | I want some reply saying my order is shipped... :P |
| 05:15.19 | xkr47 | Jason1, ok but where do I send them :) |
| 05:15.22 | Jason1 | CM: amen |
| 05:15.59 | linux_galore | Im suprised they didnt just distribute through a third party company that specialises in this type of thing |
| 05:16.52 | Jason1 | CM: soon enough hopefully. Are they still projected to be shipped the 16th? |
| 05:16.57 | daMaestro | FIC is not small company |
| 05:17.02 | daMaestro | not a* |
| 05:17.05 | codyl | CM, ME TOO |
| 05:17.11 | Jason1 | daMaestro: Do they still sell motherboards? |
| 05:17.22 | xkr47 | Jason1, I got some mail from the sales team that some issue I talked about on the ml will not be handled until.. friday I think it was |
| 05:17.26 | linux_galore | daMaestro: fic arent distributing it though openmoko in ca are |
| 05:17.38 | daMaestro | http://giyf.us/fic |
| 05:17.40 | xkr47 | so I guess they're all taking a week off :) |
| 05:17.43 | daMaestro | still |
| 05:18.25 | daMaestro | http://finance.google.com/finance?q=FIC LOL |
| 05:18.26 | linux_galore | I better go stuff to finnish of |
| 05:18.33 | daMaestro | "for ubercool"... |
| 05:18.36 | Jason1 | xkr47: LOL Im sure thats not the case, but the soon I get my phone, the better :) |
| 05:18.43 | daMaestro | "For the ubercool interactive charts, you need to install the Macromedia Flash Player |
| 05:18.44 | daMaestro | Tip: You can drag the chart. " |
| 05:19.17 | xkr47 | daMaestro, google is not afraid of being teeny |
| 05:19.22 | xkr47 | :) |
| 05:19.54 | xkr47 | heh everybody should get one share of FIC with their purchase ;-) |
| 05:20.02 | linux_galore | the NEO will need a flash plugin |
| 05:20.21 | xkr47 | I will do fine without flash |
| 05:20.30 | daMaestro | is it even possible? |
| 05:20.34 | xkr47 | but I do hope somebody works on it tho, flash is good for the masses |
| 05:20.35 | linux_galore | daMaestro: yeah but many media sites now use flash |
| 05:20.41 | daMaestro | is it even possible? |
| 05:21.01 | xkr47 | "how do you feel today?" "puky" |
| 05:21.05 | linux_galore | daMaestro: simbian has it |
| 05:21.30 | xkr47 | "symbia" sounds like an african country or something :) |
| 05:21.39 | daMaestro | ahh there is an ARM port it seems |
| 05:21.52 | CM | The N800 has flash, doesn't it? |
| 05:22.05 | linux_galore | daMaestro: yeah, Im sure you can do flash on the n800 |
| 05:22.19 | spikebike | n800 got flash9 like this week |
| 05:22.26 | spikebike | had flash 7 or something previously |
| 05:23.03 | daMaestro | http://www.windowsfordevices.com/articles/AT2364930496.html |
| 05:23.05 | spikebike | seems like the n800 is on the hairy edge of usable with flash 9 |
| 05:23.14 | linux_galore | yeah n800 got flash and skype |
| 05:23.16 | spikebike | I think they had to squeeze a bit and use the on board dsp |
| 05:23.27 | *** part/#openmoko Jason1 (n=jelwell@12.167.160.5) |
| 05:23.28 | spikebike | flash 7 + youbut + n800 kinda sucked |
| 05:24.03 | linux_galore | N800 update -> http://www.gadgetell.com/2007/07/nokia-n800-update-gives-skype-and-flash-support/ |
| 05:26.27 | spikebike | N800's a really cool box |
| 05:26.35 | spikebike | but at $400 ish is hard to justify over the $129 770 |
| 05:26.58 | spikebike | engadge recently posted pics of a possible nokia successor |
| 05:27.05 | spikebike | not even a hint of gsm support 8-( |
| 05:27.23 | spikebike | some really cool hacks for the nokia 800 |
| 05:27.29 | spikebike | someone hacked a /dev/mp3 |
| 05:27.41 | spikebike | that used the dsp for decode and has almost zero cpu overhead |
| 05:28.09 | codyl | spikebike, how could they sell you a phone if it had a gsm transceiver ? |
| 05:28.50 | spikebike | they might not |
| 05:29.00 | spikebike | alas afaik gsm tranceivers don't exist 8-( |
| 05:29.14 | codyl | radio..? |
| 05:29.27 | spikebike | n800 actually has a fm radio afaik |
| 05:29.36 | spikebike | it wasn't announced with the original releases |
| 05:29.41 | spikebike | a cute secret ;-) |
| 05:29.45 | codyl | whats wrong with the word "transceiver" ? |
| 05:30.22 | spikebike | er |
| 05:30.39 | spikebike | I meant my wished for gps like bt widget (that adds gps to any bt device) doesn't exist for gsm |
| 05:30.53 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 05:31.02 | codyl | you could build one |
| 05:31.14 | spikebike | I wish that a similar gsm device could add voice/data via cellular to bt devices |
| 05:32.15 | codyl | spikebike, if only..that would require a much more open economy |
| 05:32.54 | spikebike | nah, just someone hungry enough with some knowledge of bluetooth/gsm bits |
| 05:33.06 | spikebike | much easier then say designing a neo1973 ;-) |
| 05:33.48 | codyl | so basically, a box with a phone in it..except it exports the phone functionality over bluetooth ? |
| 05:34.03 | spikebike | right |
| 05:34.12 | spikebike | so small, cheap, light, no buttons, no display |
| 05:34.31 | spikebike | maybe a led to say on, and a led to say has a gsm connection |
| 05:34.37 | spikebike | maybe a 3rd for has bt connection |
| 05:34.44 | spikebike | much like the 3 lights on my gps |
| 05:35.01 | codyl | spikebike, go for it - http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=478# |
| 05:36.18 | spikebike | cool |
| 05:36.34 | spikebike | I've got an EE friend that just bought a nokia 770 |
| 05:36.41 | spikebike | I'm prod him with that url |
| 05:37.30 | codyl | spikebike, you could do it- just hook that up to an AVR or something, the marry it to a serial bluetooth module |
| 05:38.08 | spikebike | sure |
| 05:38.14 | spikebike | but I'm not a hardware guy |
| 05:38.46 | *** join/#openmoko khester_ (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:39.01 | codyl | spikebike, ahh- okay then, well then i could do it :-P |
| 05:39.05 | spikebike | I'll happily write the contact manager/dialer ;-) |
| 05:39.33 | codyl | python + gtk , couple hours ;-) |
| 05:40.10 | spikebike | echo "atdt 555-1212" | /dev/bt |
| 05:40.13 | spikebike | ;-) |
| 05:40.51 | cibomahto | that would be loads of fun for remote sensor projects |
| 05:40.58 | spikebike | yeah |
| 05:41.07 | spikebike | actuall a 2 way pager is pretty damn close |
| 05:41.30 | spikebike | battery, power management, 2 way data |
| 05:41.44 | spikebike | is there such a thing as a gsm pager? |
| 05:42.12 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 05:42.15 | *** join/#openmoko georg__ (n=georg@port-213-160-14-146.static.qsc.de) |
| 05:42.25 | codyl | spikebike, if you are cocaine dealer , sure |
| 05:42.31 | codyl | :-P |
| 05:43.15 | codyl | nah..they still make them |
| 05:44.52 | *** join/#openmoko echoline (n=eli@lgdppp205-34.eoni.com) |
| 05:46.13 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall__ (n=josh@cpe-24-162-127-162.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 05:46.16 | spikebike | http://histon.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008824838331/pdtl/Mobile-wireless/1003278142/GPRS-GSM-Wireless-Modem.htm |
| 05:47.19 | codyl | spikebike, im digging the usb modem |
| 05:47.47 | codyl | its CMDA :-( |
| 05:48.10 | spikebike | seems like allowing gsm voice/data for all bt pdas and laptops would be a decent size market |
| 05:49.39 | spikebike | ah, tehre's a bunch, but they all assume usb |
| 05:50.50 | spikebike | http://estonwireless.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008826068010/pdtl/GSM-CDMA/1003378806/HSDPA-Wireless-Modem.htm |
| 05:50.52 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:50.57 | spikebike | looks slick, but I've no idea how you connect to it |
| 06:04.13 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.38) |
| 06:04.50 | *** join/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 06:06.42 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 06:10.16 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 06:10.47 | *** join/#openmoko josh_marshall__ (n=josh@cpe-24-162-112-96.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 06:16.21 | blindcoder | okay, added 'HowTo add a package to the openmoko distribution' to MokoMakefile page. |
| 06:17.37 | blindcoder | no idea if it's the 'right' way or anything, but it works |
| 06:17.43 | CM | :) |
| 06:17.57 | CM | blindcoder: Thanks, I'll try it out as soon as I can |
| 06:19.59 | gcb77 | blindcoder: thank you, will give it a try too as soon as I get my env working again |
| 06:24.57 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:29.52 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-74-132.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 06:34.10 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 06:37.23 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 06:39.22 | vlo | openmoko even made it into the swiss free newspaper (bad quality article, but at least they talk about it): http://www.20min.ch/ro/life/lifestyle/story/12441465 |
| 06:40.08 | cibomahto | cool :-) |
| 06:40.17 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 06:42.42 | linux_galore | yeah saw a video on youtube showing a Sth American IT show talking about the openmoko yesterday |
| 06:43.27 | *** join/#openmoko rtp (i=rtp@orfeo.duckcorp.org) |
| 06:46.18 | linux_galore | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8x2It_rHdY |
| 06:47.34 | ScaredyCat | no audio ? |
| 06:50.31 | CM | Off topic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GhnLZ3Ryccg |
| 06:51.08 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 06:52.39 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 06:54.59 | *** join/#openmoko Fatal_ (i=fatal@debian.as) |
| 06:55.03 | linux_galore | aloril: 40 millione Linux geeks and 1 phone lol |
| 06:56.09 | linux_galore | be funny if FIC have serious production shortfalls filling the orders |
| 06:57.01 | linux_galore | and this is just the GTA01, imagine how big the 02 will be |
| 06:57.47 | CM | How many of the P1 ppl plan to buy a P2? I'm quite sure I will.. |
| 06:58.01 | blindcoder | all of them, probably |
| 06:58.09 | aloril | linux_galore: FIC can reportedly produce 100K phones/month ;-) |
| 06:58.32 | linux_galore | aloril: that all |
| 06:58.44 | blindcoder | minus the ones that didn't see the "DEVELOPER PREVIEW" - "NOT MASS MARKET" - "VIRTUALLY NO APPS FOR DAY-BY-DAY USE" signs |
| 06:59.31 | linux_galore | well I can see a heap of 01's hitting ebay when the 02 comes out |
| 07:00.05 | CM | I think I'll keep mine, and have it in the car or something as a gps |
| 07:00.20 | linux_galore | CM: keep it as a collectors item |
| 07:00.32 | Ycros | yeah, I'm not selling mine |
| 07:01.26 | linux_galore | either way if openmoko fails or does a blazing business the 01 will be a serious geek collectors item in years to come |
| 07:01.49 | aloril | linux_galore: I guess FIC could subcontract if 100K/month is not enough ;-) |
| 07:02.53 | linux_galore | so "dont lose the receipt,manual, anything that came with the phone" the more you have the more it will be worth as a collectors item |
| 07:03.02 | aloril | (as SpeedEvil proposed when I said something similar for later times) |
| 07:03.13 | aloril | linux_galore: hehe |
| 07:03.33 | aloril | also, lower the serial number, more valuable it is |
| 07:03.53 | cibomahto | haha, i can put it on display next to my NeXTstation |
| 07:04.33 | *** join/#openmoko Gwaihir (n=Gwaihir@ubuntu/member/gwaihir) |
| 07:05.08 | linux_galore | aloril: dont laugh I collect PDA's I have the complete collection of Apple newtons, my pride and joy is a Apple newton emate 300 with its packaging,manuals carry case the works even has all the cables |
| 07:05.26 | CM | aloril: I sure hope they send them out accorting to orders placed.. ;) |
| 07:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko Gwaihir (n=Gwaihir@ubuntu/member/gwaihir) |
| 07:05.43 | CM | *according to.. |
| 07:05.56 | linux_galore | cost me $80 from a teacher who never used it (teachers all got one as part of an IT training program here in the 90's) |
| 07:06.35 | linux_galore | last i looked the things are worth over US$1200 mint |
| 07:07.00 | Fatal_ | www.wegenermedia.com/emate.htm |
| 07:07.45 | cibomahto | cool |
| 07:07.47 | CM | linux_galore: That's crazy.. I've never understood these collectors. The only thing I somewhat collect is music, an barely that lately. Don't have time.. :( |
| 07:08.13 | linux_galore | Fatal_: thats used no box ofen no manuals and they are scratched |
| 07:08.22 | Fatal_ | ok |
| 07:08.41 | linux_galore | Fatal_: mint means "as you got it in the shop" |
| 07:09.46 | linux_galore | CM: well I chose PDA's to collect versus PC's because they are pretty small and easily displayed on a wall |
| 07:09.56 | Fatal_ | linux_galore: yeah |
| 07:10.04 | Fatal_ | I do know what mint means :) |
| 07:10.18 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 07:10.40 | linux_galore | Fatal_: you can get plenty of scratched up units cheap, education depts baught them by the boat load |
| 07:10.52 | linux_galore | bought * |
| 07:11.09 | CM | linux_galore: A friend of mine had 119 Smashing Pumpkins cd's on a wall. All they ever released in all countries except 2 or 3.. |
| 07:11.58 | linux_galore | CM: well collecting is a bit like hunting in a way, you often have to travel around to find stuff |
| 07:12.35 | CM | I know.. And a bit like a puzzle too, finding the missing piece. I'm really trying not to get stuck in that. |
| 07:12.45 | linux_galore | Ive got some TI stuff from the 70's (one even has a printer that works) |
| 07:12.45 | Gwaihir | does somebody here have access to openmoko' s SVN? |
| 07:12.45 | CM | I know I have it in me.. :P |
| 07:12.45 | aloril | Gwaihir: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:13.06 | CM | Cool. I just have a TI82 calculator |
| 07:13.29 | linux_galore | CM: lol I used an 82 in school |
| 07:13.33 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2E7CC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:13.35 | CM | Same here |
| 07:13.47 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:13.50 | linux_galore | man those were the days |
| 07:13.53 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:14.09 | CM | linux_galore: Programming Snake on it, or Tetris.. |
| 07:14.23 | linux_galore | CM: I liked the artillery game |
| 07:15.13 | *** part/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 07:17.28 | linux_galore | CM: I used to work for an Apple dealer on Saturday in the early 80's to make some extra cash and someone traded in a TI calculator for a ][C, the ][ is now worth bugger all but that calculator is hard to get |
| 07:18.17 | CM | linux_galore: Nice deal :) |
| 07:19.03 | linux_galore | no actually I had a casio fx82 in school |
| 07:20.00 | *** part/#openmoko Gwaihir (n=Gwaihir@ubuntu/member/gwaihir) |
| 07:20.16 | spikebike | hp48! |
| 07:21.32 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 07:22.06 | linux_galore | first TI I used was a 55 |
| 07:23.01 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:23.57 | linux_galore | my mum has a Casio A1 then she gave it to me, like an idiot I threw it in the bin |
| 07:24.02 | linux_galore | had* |
| 07:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko taneli (i=[U2FsdGV@shell.hiit.fi) |
| 07:25.05 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-214-229.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:28.06 | cibomahto | anyone know if the list servers are operational? I subscribed to the gsmd one a number of hours ago and haven't received a conformation email yet. |
| 07:28.44 | *** join/#openmoko slytherin (n=root@203.199.147.101) |
| 07:29.11 | notserpe | cibomahto: I received a subscribe from about 3 days ago just recently |
| 07:29.15 | CM | cibomahto: The lists have all been quiet for over a day now |
| 07:29.16 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:29.23 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 07:29.56 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:30.10 | slytherin | Can anyone advise me regarding an idea about an application. I just want to know if it will be feasible to implement using existing APIs |
| 07:31.28 | CM | I'm sure someone here knows, so just ask :) |
| 07:32.53 | cibomahto | msg CM thanks, I guess I'll just have to wait it out then |
| 07:32.56 | cibomahto | oops |
| 07:33.08 | CM | np :) |
| 07:34.11 | slytherin | I plan to make a bluetooth control application which will make use of HID profile of bluetooth standard. It will basically send some key codes to the destination PC so that you can control a specific application. I just want to know if this is feasible. |
| 07:34.38 | buz | should be |
| 07:34.40 | CM | slytherin: Without any problems. OpenMoko has the full bluez libs |
| 07:35.33 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 07:36.08 | slytherin | buz: CM: The idea is taken from similar software in Sony Ericsson phones. I just hope they have not patented it. ;-) |
| 07:37.10 | cibomahto | is it possible to make the bluez library *act* as an HDI device though? |
| 07:37.19 | CM | I'm not sure how well the j2me <-> bluetooth integreation works, considering that j2me doesn't even work yet |
| 07:38.18 | slytherin | CM: I don't think it needs J2ME. cibomahto: It should be possible. That is what I will try to explore. |
| 07:38.31 | ewanm89_laptop | the bluez libs handle my bluetooth keyboard and mouse just fine (HID). |
| 07:38.59 | CM | And obex filetransfers from my phone :) |
| 07:39.14 | ewanm89_laptop | And all you would be doing is transmitting rather than recieving them. |
| 07:39.46 | slytherin | ewanm89_laptop: Yes, all I need to do is transfer some key codes to the target PC. |
| 07:40.41 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X066e.x.pppool.de) |
| 07:41.38 | cibomahto | Interesting way to go about that... can the HID profile do bidirectional communication? |
| 07:42.09 | slytherin | cibomahto: don't think so. It is basically for input devices, so uni directional. |
| 07:42.18 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 07:43.45 | cibomahto | ok, fair enough. I was marginally successful at setting up a simple remote control using the serial profile and a palm pilot device, but HDI would make for a super easy solution |
| 07:44.23 | CM | Would be fun to support bluetooth printers too |
| 07:44.46 | slytherin | cibomahto: Yes, and there won't be any need of server part on target PC as long as it supports bluetooth HID. |
| 07:45.46 | slytherin | CM: I plan to make it configurable through some remote control profile. The implementation will be similar to SE phones. |
| 07:45.47 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 07:46.01 | CM | slytherin: Nice :) |
| 07:46.40 | slytherin | CM: Forgot to mention. It is one of best feature of SE phones and might prove to be a killer app for openmoko. :-) |
| 07:47.14 | CM | slytherin: What app is that btw? I have a W610i right now |
| 07:47.26 | *** join/#openmoko xanalogica (n=jeff@adsl-68-95-135-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 07:47.36 | slytherin | CM: Let me check if it has it. |
| 07:47.41 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=vicente@212.166.192.135) |
| 07:48.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/it]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[P1_Owners]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Category:Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[Torch]] and other changes |
| 07:48.34 | slytherin | CM: It is called as remote control. Should be somewhere in Entertainment or Connectivity. |
| 07:48.49 | CM | Ok :) |
| 07:48.59 | slytherin | CM: For further reference, check https://help.ubuntu.com/community/BluetoothRemoteControl |
| 07:49.56 | Stephmw | hi guys |
| 07:51.07 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 07:51.30 | ewanm89_laptop | Hi |
| 07:51.34 | slytherin | CM: your phone is supported. :-) |
| 07:51.40 | slytherin | Stephmw: hi |
| 07:52.51 | ynezz | what's with mailing lists? |
| 07:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko kerthale (n=kerthale@g223161.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 07:54.26 | Kensan | Steohmw: Do you know who is working on integrating a JVM in Openmoko? |
| 07:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko Monex (n=Monex@dslb-084-059-113-104.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:54.43 | Kensan | s/Steohmw/Stephmw/ |
| 07:54.53 | Stephmw | Kensan: there's a couple of separate endeavours that I know of atm |
| 07:55.07 | Stephmw | Kensan: alas, most don't really chat about what they're up to |
| 07:55.10 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 07:55.30 | Stephmw | Kensan: I'm working on getting http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Java up with that kind of info |
| 07:56.27 | ynezz | did harald killed sysadmins? :p |
| 07:57.12 | Kensan | Stephmw: did you read http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001055.html ? |
| 07:57.30 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2379 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (3 files in 2 dirs): Only power the modem up/down if it's there. |
| 07:57.57 | Stephmw | Kensan: yeah, I know about jamvm+classpath being in the OE repo |
| 07:58.21 | CM | Kensan: I think woglinde is one of them, but there's more people on the mailinglists |
| 07:58.32 | CM | The phoneme guys for example |
| 07:58.35 | Kensan | Stephmw: Is it being considered by any of the projects? |
| 07:58.55 | ewanm89_laptop | I'm a little behind the mailing lists. |
| 07:58.57 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 08:00.37 | Stephmw | aye, woglinde is getting phoneme (cacaoVM+cldc) into OE |
| 08:00.50 | Stephmw | there's also MIDPath, built on top of phoneME and GNU Classpath |
| 08:01.10 | Stephmw | the problem is that none of these efforts is yet far enough along to need coordination |
| 08:01.21 | Stephmw | for inclusion into OpenMoko that is |
| 08:01.40 | Stephmw | (the individual projects are certain to welcome contributors *g*) |
| 08:02.03 | Kensan | Stephmw: ah. I've seen the prototype that the poster was refering to and the memory footprint was very small. |
| 08:02.32 | Stephmw | Kensan: that's typical of J2ME VMs |
| 08:02.58 | Kensan | Stephmw: JamVM compared to other VMs. |
| 08:03.15 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 08:03.33 | Stephmw | Kensan: I think you need to be careful when you say footprint though... RAM or ROM? Which class set? Are you comparing to JIT-enabled VMs? |
| 08:03.56 | *** join/#openmoko dneary_ (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:04.07 | Kensan | Stephmw: both actually. Runtime memory and filesize. |
| 08:05.14 | Kensan | Stephmw: but Java is not my primary interest ;) |
| 08:05.56 | Stephmw | Kensan: it is mine ;-) my paid work is J2ME API development |
| 08:06.13 | Stephmw | Kensan: ... but I can't start hacking on OpenMoko's Java until I quit my current job |
| 08:06.23 | Stephmw | ... so I work on the Wiki in the meantime |
| 08:06.28 | slytherin | Stephmw: Isn't Sun's official J2ME distribution now GPL? |
| 08:06.44 | Stephmw | slytherin: sure is |
| 08:07.32 | Stephmw | slytherin: I'm not allowed to touch it atm |
| 08:07.36 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@X17e7.x.pppool.de) |
| 08:07.43 | slytherin | Stephmw: So isn't any working on getting it on openmoko? |
| 08:08.03 | keesj | what is J2ME api development? |
| 08:08.13 | Stephmw | slytherin: scroll up. phoneME is exactly what you're asking about |
| 08:08.22 | slytherin | Stephmw: Ok. :-) |
| 08:08.42 | Stephmw | keesj: somebody's got to actually write the code to implement the APIs, Java and native ;-) |
| 08:09.01 | Stephmw | keesj: Sun's reference implementation isn't particularly good code |
| 08:09.23 | Stephmw | keesj: so people either just use the specs (and that's really not enough) or they start with Sun's and hack it |
| 08:09.36 | keesj | Stephmw: neither are vendor implementations |
| 08:09.52 | Stephmw | keesj: I wouldn't dream of stating otherwise :) |
| 08:10.04 | Stephmw | keesj: J2ME is a mess |
| 08:10.41 | slytherin | Stephmw: I guess that is why there are so many of the VM implementations. :-) |
| 08:11.23 | Stephmw | slytherin: aye, another issue is the vague specs (too many optional items) and the plethora of JSRs (feature specifications) |
| 08:11.28 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 08:11.34 | Stephmw | but not to worry, it'll get there |
| 08:12.31 | slytherin | Stephmw: May be I will help you some day. For now I will concentrate on the remote control thing. :-) |
| 08:13.50 | slytherin | Stephmw: Quit from what? |
| 08:13.58 | Stephmw | slytherin: my current job |
| 08:14.43 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 08:14.47 | slytherin | Stephmw: I don't know when I will dump software as a mean to earn a living and start working on FOSS as hobby. :-( |
| 08:15.42 | keesj | slytherin: it's quite possible to do booth |
| 08:16.16 | mdt | keesj, tell us more... |
| 08:16.21 | Stephmw | Aye, it sure is, but can be warying. |
| 08:16.40 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 08:17.04 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 08:17.05 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 08:17.51 | ewanm89_laptop | Surely it depends on your employer? |
| 08:18.21 | CM | I wish the neo touch screen could do multiple finger input: http://wearables.unisa.edu.au/mpx/?q=node/86 |
| 08:18.27 | Stephmw | depends on the employer, the work you do, the OSS work you want to do, your wife... your kids... |
| 08:18.32 | Stephmw | etc ,etc |
| 08:18.47 | Stephmw | One size doesn't fit all |
| 08:19.27 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:20.26 | *** part/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net) |
| 08:21.08 | keesj | mdt: are you serious? |
| 08:22.00 | mdt | keesj, shure... |
| 08:26.29 | keesj | first off all I guess that any company that uses open-source has to "give" back a minimum ,so that is the least open-source envolvement you can have. there are so many companies living from servicing open-source that I can't imagine it was a really question. |
| 08:28.48 | keesj | I have spend the 6 of the last 8 years developing open-source software for money(I must confess it was mostly java). |
| 08:29.00 | *** join/#openmoko goloo (n=goloo@host3-194-dynamic.17-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:29.31 | keesj | perhaps it's different in the US? |
| 08:30.47 | Stephmw | keesj: I'll have to take your details for when I start looking for work at the end of the year :) |
| 08:30.57 | Stephmw | the US is weird in so many ways... |
| 08:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 08:32.25 | keesj | if I was not happy at my current jobs I would try the nokia osso, I really hope that the openmoko also will take off. |
| 08:32.44 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.103.255) |
| 08:33.27 | keesj | speaking of openmoko. I was wondering if there are docs about running on the smdk2440? |
| 08:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko codyl (n=codyl@adsl-71-142-69-224.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 08:34.12 | slytherin | Can anyone guide me to get the development environment setup on Windows? |
| 08:34.20 | *** join/#openmoko zxmbi77 (n=zxmbi77@u-173-c112.cs.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 08:34.22 | slytherin | buz: There are many. |
| 08:34.25 | codyl | thats a good one .. |
| 08:34.50 | buz | so wheres the code? |
| 08:35.05 | slytherin | buz: Java is still preferred (over .NET) when it comes to business critical server applications. |
| 08:35.21 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@ppp59-167-90-108.lns1.mel6.internode.on.net) |
| 08:35.31 | slytherin | buz: The code is buried under NDA. :-) |
| 08:35.49 | keesj | buz: working "on java" as on the java specs etc? |
| 08:36.25 | buz | keesj: as on getting java to openmoko |
| 08:36.35 | Stephmw | slytherin: hmmm? what NDA? |
| 08:36.37 | darmou | A really cool application would be to view mobile tv but I suspect that won't happen for a while. |
| 08:36.44 | darmou | Non Disclosure Agreement |
| 08:36.49 | keesj | Stephmw: have you done stuff with jazelle? |
| 08:36.58 | Stephmw | darmou: re-read my question :) |
| 08:37.11 | Stephmw | keesj: only as far as knowing the platform I work on uses it |
| 08:37.14 | darmou | Stephmw: oops sorry my bad |
| 08:37.17 | drath | don't you have to sell your soul to get a look at jazelle docs? |
| 08:37.21 | Stephmw | keesj: I don't work on the VM itself |
| 08:37.33 | slytherin | Stephmw: He asked me where is the code. The project for which I was working until recently is not open source. :-) |
| 08:37.36 | buz | s3c doesnt have jazelle right? |
| 08:37.57 | Stephmw | slytherin: ah ok. Not specifically about Java the runtime/language then :) |
| 08:37.58 | drath | there are S3Cs based on the ARM926EJ-S, those have Jazelle |
| 08:38.13 | slytherin | Stephmw: No |
| 08:38.19 | drath | but both the GTA01 and GTA02 come with an ARM920T |
| 08:38.27 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe_ (n=eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 08:38.56 | Stephmw | drath: and yes, you have to sell your soul to get Jazelle docs |
| 08:39.13 | spikebike | not to mention the jazelle docs |
| 08:39.15 | spikebike | er license |
| 08:39.32 | spikebike | sad |
| 08:39.38 | Stephmw | Aye, Jazelle isn't worth the hassle for an open source solution. |
| 08:39.40 | spikebike | you'd think they'd use it to just sell more CPUs |
| 08:39.49 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A34E2F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:40.05 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 08:40.05 | ewon | mornin |
| 08:41.52 | buz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS5947466557.html but pxa WTF ? wonder what it costs |
| 08:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 08:44.08 | drath | heh, amazing how fast everyone is at pointing out that openmoko isn't free enough (in their opinion) |
| 08:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 08:45.11 | Stephmw | what are they complaining about now? Can't flash the DSP? The GSM chip? |
| 08:45.16 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 08:45.20 | drath | "I suspect [the Goliath boards] will be attractive to hobbyists who want more control/openness/flexibility than something like OpenMoko [story] might give. |
| 08:45.29 | spikebike | heh |
| 08:45.35 | spikebike | marketing at it's finest |
| 08:45.50 | wibbit | Hmmm, I'd be curious to know which bits of the openmoko is not open. |
| 08:45.57 | zecke | the good 'old' mc75... |
| 08:46.04 | spikebike | ummm gpsd |
| 08:46.16 | spikebike | thats about all that I can think of off hand |
| 08:46.26 | wibbit | spikebike: is that the GSM module? |
| 08:46.27 | spikebike | not sure if thats requires for gps or just agps |
| 08:46.30 | wibbit | Are developers not provided with an incredibly detailed API was provided. |
| 08:46.39 | Kero | drath: "I bet most if not all the OpenMoko software could be made to work pretty easily on the Goliath." |
| 08:46.45 | Stephmw | wibbit: no, it's something else |
| 08:46.49 | Kero | just below the "it is too closed!" |
| 08:46.50 | spikebike | can't have it both ways ;-) |
| 08:46.51 | Stephmw | wibbit: look it up on the wiki |
| 08:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 08:46.56 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 08:47.08 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 08:47.08 | drath | Kero: heh, yeah, i was just about to mention that |
| 08:47.18 | slytherin | bedboi: hi |
| 08:47.21 | Kero | drath: so clearly the person has no idea what he is talking about |
| 08:47.24 | tuukkah | the openness they refer to must be how you can order the parts and build your own design |
| 08:47.43 | drath | explaining how their cto failed to see that OpenMko perfectly fits its role, being the software platform for a multitude of devices, once there are sufficiently open hardware platforms |
| 08:47.56 | Kero | and obviously, you talk AT commands to the gsm module. right. |
| 08:48.09 | Kero | well, could be fun to play with :) |
| 08:48.22 | Kero | but I'll have enough fun playing with a P1 for a while :D |
| 08:48.50 | mjr | spikebike, the closed gpsd is needed for non-assisted gps as well, it's the one that does all the gps claculations. Hence reverse-engineering |
| 08:49.12 | spikebike | or just waiting for the hardware to rev to a full GPS chip |
| 08:49.19 | spikebike | I'm not offended by it |
| 08:49.25 | spikebike | just mentioning the only non-open part I know |
| 08:49.37 | tuukkah | the more hardware the merrier is what we're supposed to say :-) |
| 08:50.45 | tuukkah | with them, you get EDGE and WLAN in this month, but no hope of getting a phone case etc. |
| 08:52.05 | ewon | so what temps do you people have your offices at? |
| 08:52.06 | ewon | I find 21degC is nice t-shirt temperature, the boss reckons 23-24deg is better, but that makes me sweat |
| 08:52.46 | Hopscotch | gsm is also not open |
| 08:52.55 | spikebike | well sort of |
| 08:52.58 | Hopscotch | ah, you had that already |
| 08:53.02 | spikebike | it's just a different chip you talk AT to |
| 08:53.07 | Hopscotch | right |
| 08:53.25 | spikebike | well you don't have the source code to the CPU design either |
| 08:53.39 | spikebike | but there's a doc on how to program both... seems plenty open |
| 08:53.50 | tuukkah | if you can't flash it yourself, then non-free firmware isn't non-free =) |
| 08:54.07 | CM | ewon: About 20 here, perfect t-shirt temp :) |
| 08:54.41 | notserpe | gpsd will never be open (officially) due to ITAR, no? |
| 08:54.58 | spikebike | whatever |
| 08:55.08 | spikebike | plenty of other gps chips allow you to talk NMEA |
| 08:55.33 | Hopscotch | this one does as well - but only on a pipe to the gpsd |
| 08:55.50 | Hopscotch | so from the application perspective it is really no different to a "normal" gps |
| 08:56.21 | Hopscotch | just change the name of the device from /dev/ttySsomething to /var/run/gpsd and don't try to set a baudrate :) |
| 08:57.25 | spikebike | dunno seems like the driver and chip are justified by agps |
| 08:57.30 | spikebike | and agps seems pretty lame |
| 08:59.11 | anrp | how cool would that be D: |
| 09:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 09:00.09 | spikebike | when GPS sucked, tracked few sats, and took forever to sync AGPS sounded great |
| 09:00.11 | ScaredyCat | gpsd needs to be like gpsd... |
| 09:00.40 | spikebike | then GPSs got better, 32 channels, much lower power, much better sensitivity, and much better time to lock |
| 09:00.43 | aloril | Goliath is a bit different market, I would say Neo1973 and it complement each other (and yeah, they could use OpenMoko as article talks about) |
| 09:01.07 | spikebike | so now sub 40 second cold boot to lock is standard |
| 09:01.08 | aloril | sure its allow easier hardware hacking, but Neo1973 is more ready for consumers |
| 09:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 09:01.50 | spikebike | heh gumstix and friends are for robotis and deeply embedded stuff |
| 09:02.02 | spikebike | not for things you carry every day |
| 09:02.15 | spikebike | not to mention they are pretty damn pricey |
| 09:02.27 | slytherin | Is there any list of softwares available on Neo1973 for current version? |
| 09:02.29 | spikebike | I think the phone + gps + cpu + display equiv is like 1k |
| 09:02.39 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.153.5.221) |
| 09:02.52 | aloril | hehe and even links to viral OpemMoko add: http://www.neoseeker.com/news/story/6892/ |
| 09:02.53 | spikebike | still leaves you without a case, battery, or buttons |
| 09:03.09 | aloril | spikebike: ouch |
| 09:03.37 | spikebike | they are just leaching on the publicity... not competing in any way |
| 09:04.26 | buz | i wonder what resolution the gumstix lcd is |
| 09:04.33 | buz | 4.3" sounds neat |
| 09:04.52 | spikebike | competitors are things like the iphone (not really a smart phone), green phone (programmable but not as open) and things like the new motorola linux/JUIX phone |
| 09:05.04 | buz | gumstix are probably mostly worried because openmoko might sell the board alone |
| 09:05.29 | buz | i'd love a neo with 4" vga screen |
| 09:05.41 | Stephmw | spikebike: I wouldn't place the Moto as competition really... the linux/JUIX aspect isn't really accessible |
| 09:06.03 | buz | yeah moto could be any number of embedded os instead, wouldnt be much different |
| 09:06.50 | spikebike | Stephmw:agreed... at least you can devel java for it... as you can for many phoens |
| 09:06.55 | spikebike | phones |
| 09:07.14 | spikebike | so at least for today openmoko is pretty unique |
| 09:07.34 | spikebike | dunno, closest might actually be the nokia 770/800 |
| 09:07.37 | spikebike | no gsm of course |
| 09:07.49 | ScaredyCat | buz: that'll be in the media player device... |
| 09:07.52 | spikebike | but at least you can emulate them, all apis are documented, they run linux, etc. |
| 09:07.58 | ScaredyCat | </rumour mongering> |
| 09:08.24 | buz | unless the media players have gsm i dont care |
| 09:08.32 | buz | essentially a neo with larger screen would be nice |
| 09:08.38 | buz | more screen, less case ;) |
| 09:09.09 | ScaredyCat | well, let's get these ones delivered first, eh... |
| 09:09.29 | buz | i guess you could add a bigger screen to neo? |
| 09:10.08 | slytherin | Is there any list of softwares available on Neo1973 for current version? |
| 09:13.52 | dcorking | the nokia N800 is more complementary than competitive with the Neo |
| 09:13.54 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@3e70c97c.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 09:14.34 | buz | http://www.tpo.biz/ENG/business-eng/products&applications-PDA-2.htm the 800x480 would be particularly tasty |
| 09:14.40 | buz | if the hardware could drive it :( |
| 09:15.01 | anrp | mm got me t-mobile gprs working again |
| 09:15.06 | anrp | last time i used that was ... years ago |
| 09:15.11 | buz | who makes the neo screens anyway |
| 09:16.52 | madwoota | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#LCD_Module_.28LCM.29 |
| 09:18.49 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@host-88-217-199-211.customer.m-online.net) |
| 09:20.07 | buz | oh thats the small brother of the one above |
| 09:20.33 | buz | for the people who were complaining about it not bein transreflective, it looks to me as if there are entirely comparable transreflective ones at tpo |
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| 09:21.44 | anrp | transflectives are dimmer |
| 09:21.54 | anrp | but who knows.. the display may be obscenely bright to begin with |
| 09:23.59 | slytherin | Who is currently using actually phone and tell me good it is. :-) |
| 09:25.14 | Psi | what do you mean by *good* |
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| 09:30.01 | buz | it is obscenely bright but still barely readable in sunlight |
| 09:33.35 | anrp | probably not that much more than the one in there |
| 09:33.49 | anrp | however if there's any physical differences it would be problematic |
| 09:33.50 | taneli | Psi: do these work: sms send/rcv, dial out/in? |
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| 09:34.03 | anrp | no sms yet afaik |
| 09:34.06 | tuukkah | the 480x640 transreflective from that manufacturer is 3,5" |
| 09:34.06 | Psi | as far as i know there is no SMS application at all |
| 09:34.08 | anrp | the dialer supposedly works |
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| 09:34.42 | buz | tuukkah: they have 2.8" but not under phone |
| 09:34.55 | buz | oh wait |
| 09:34.57 | buz | i'm stupid |
| 09:35.10 | buz | i skipped cplumns ;) |
| 09:35.53 | slytherin | Psi: Overall performance |
| 09:36.04 | Psi | i dont have a phone yet |
| 09:36.27 | tuukkah | search in the wiki isn't returning results anymore :-( |
| 09:38.28 | tuukkah | basicly if there's any SMS app for Linux it could be used on the Neo too |
| 09:39.58 | slytherin | tuukkah: how about gnome-phone-manager? |
| 09:41.35 | tuukkah | slytherin, if it's not too resource intensive |
| 09:42.18 | dcorking | i imagin gnokii would work fine for sms - but there must be dozens of others |
| 09:42.19 | mjr | sending and receiving sms in a quick and dirty way isn't hard via the passthrough mode of the gsmd, if quick and dirty is what you want |
| 09:42.30 | slytherin | tuukkah: Can't say. I have used it sometimes. |
| 09:42.53 | hads | Yeah, what mjr said. |
| 09:43.21 | taneli | so all that is missing is a nice gui? |
| 09:44.26 | ScaredyCat | http://www.jankratochvil.net/project/mdsms/ |
| 09:45.13 | tuukkah | this diagram shows 16 virtual serial ports to the GSM modem, so i wonder if that means we can use 16 GSM apps at the same time: http://people.openmoko.org/sean/specifications/images/gsm_interface.png |
| 09:45.31 | ScaredyCat | Text SMS is sent through general AT command-compatible GSM modems (like the Siemens M1/M20, etc.)..... |
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| 09:47.04 | jgm | tuukkah: that reminds me of a question that I had. If someone is on a call can the Neo still pick up a second incoming call and answer it automatically (with a voicemail prompt or similar) |
| 09:47.11 | jgm | I think that it can, just not sure |
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| 09:47.17 | jgm | (Oh to have a 'phone to be able to play with this stuff) |
| 09:47.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Milo/en]] [[User:Milo]] [[Translation_HOWTO/it]] [[Talk:P1_Owners]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Translation]] [[Development_resources/it]] [[Advanced_End-user/it]] [[Basic_End-user/it]] [[Java]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/it]] |
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| 09:48.02 | tuukkah | "voicemail prompt" sounds problematic as that would mean handling the audio of two calls at the same time |
| 09:49.23 | taneli | will the operator give you two calls at the same time? |
| 09:49.56 | tuukkah | well, can't you normally put calls on hold and switch between them? |
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| 09:51.56 | mjr | only one active call at a time, one would think |
| 09:52.28 | hads | Why would one think that? |
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| 09:53.37 | mjr | that's how it usually goes, and there's no reason to think the gsm chipset in neo is twice as capable |
| 09:54.06 | mjr | hell, it isn't even class a gprs |
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| 09:54.50 | hads | I don't quite follow what you are referring to as 'active call'? I can't juggle two calls with call waiting etc. normally. |
| 09:55.16 | hads | sorry, s/can't/can/ |
| 09:55.18 | mjr | active as in voice being transmitted |
| 09:55.48 | hads | Ah OK, then yeah I can't see that happening, or see a need. |
| 09:55.54 | Stephmw | mjr: multiple PDP contexts are becoming common nowdays though |
| 09:57.25 | tuukkah | jgm, perhaps you were thinking of how it normally works. if the phone is busy, callers are directed to the voicemail at the operator |
| 09:57.51 | hads | tuukkah: Not nessecarily, there's call waiting. |
| 09:58.34 | tuukkah | hads, i mean, that's how voicemail is normally implemented |
| 09:58.43 | tuukkah | and not in the phone |
| 09:59.18 | hads | OK sure, agreed, I must be having difficulty understanding people tonight :) |
| 10:00.46 | tuukkah | what we need in openmoko is a nice gui for configuring the settings :-) |
| 10:01.54 | ScaredyCat | any news on the customs clearance? |
| 10:01.55 | Stephmw | tuukkah: what? echo "5000" > /dev/net/gprs/timeout isn't usable enough? |
| 10:02.51 | tuukkah | Stephmw, i didn't mean to talk about gprs, i meant the setting of what happens if someone tries to call you |
| 10:03.22 | Stephmw | tuukkah: I was kidding... echo "redirect" > /dev/callhandling/busyaction |
| 10:03.24 | tuukkah | but, i imagine no command is usable enough as the phone doesn't have a keyboard ;-) |
| 10:04.03 | Stephmw | the running joke is that diehard Linux enthusiasts would die rather than use a GUI for anything.. |
| 10:04.06 | tuukkah | Stephmw, i'm afraid at the moment some special AT command is needed |
| 10:04.08 | mjr | does too a virtual one :รพ |
| 10:04.26 | tuukkah | a *real* keyboard =) |
| 10:04.38 | tuukkah | one which you touch-type |
| 10:04.46 | mjr | what self-respecting geek thinks virtual things aren't real? :รพ |
| 10:05.13 | Stephmw | Bwahaha |
| 10:05.26 | tuukkah | yeah, i've noticed we like to speak of things being "physical" |
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| 10:08.32 | Stephmw | mjr: not a great deal more info, but for multi-party, call holding, waiting, etc, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_services#Supplementary_Services |
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| 10:11.53 | mjr | Stephmw, yeah, those things sure |
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| 10:13.13 | tuukkah | but you don't implement the features in the phone, you just use these "secret" codes to tell the operator what to do: http://www.geckobeach.com/cellular/secrets/gsmcodes.php |
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| 10:14.36 | anrp | those just configure the gsm part |
| 10:14.48 | anrp | they don't actually handle dealing with the situations |
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| 10:15.16 | tuukkah | isn't that what i'm saying? |
| 10:15.37 | anrp | well you need out of band signalling to actually put a call on hold for instance |
| 10:16.17 | tuukkah | ok, so that's yet another use case :-) |
| 10:16.27 | anrp | actually, this is all kind of out of band anyway |
| 10:16.27 | mdt | didn't get the beginning of the discussion, but are you talking about gsm0710? |
| 10:16.43 | tuukkah | mdt, these stuffs yes |
| 10:16.52 | anrp | when you dial a number that would use the same channels as the gsm control anyway |
| 10:16.58 | mdt | i have a daemon for that - interested? :) |
| 10:17.05 | anrp | gsmd? |
| 10:17.09 | mdt | noe |
| 10:17.20 | mdt | gsmd is a gsm0707 thing |
| 10:17.24 | anrp | mm? |
| 10:17.30 | anrp | oh, thats right, its supposed to be a kernel driver |
| 10:17.34 | mdt | gsm0710 is about multiplexing |
| 10:17.49 | mdt | that's a aproach i would not like |
| 10:17.56 | anrp | i strongly agree |
| 10:18.00 | anrp | but who knows how itll work out |
| 10:18.25 | tuukkah | mdt, can you explain the 0710 part of this image: http://people.openmoko.org/sean/specifications/images/gsm_interface.png |
| 10:18.45 | mdt | there is a lot things todo, timeout, reconn etc, etc... this is better done in user space. linux has /dev/pty for that... |
| 10:18.54 | anrp | 07.10 is a protocol for muxing multiple pseudo-serial streams into one serial stream |
| 10:19.09 | anrp | yeah thats why i think it doesn't belong in kernel space |
| 10:19.14 | anrp | its more than just a driver, its also an app |
| 10:19.15 | mdt | agree |
| 10:19.46 | anrp | you know what speed the gsm modem is running at (configurable)? |
| 10:19.46 | tuukkah | what does the number 16 limit there? |
| 10:19.52 | anrp | 16 channels top |
| 10:20.06 | tuukkah | and what things would tie up a channel? |
| 10:20.08 | mdt | you don't need 16 - 4 areenough for mostly all cases |
| 10:20.26 | mdt | gprs is one |
| 10:20.30 | anrp | command channel (AT), gprs network data, voice data (PCM) if you route from the cpu |
| 10:20.34 | mdt | sms write/receive another |
| 10:20.47 | anrp | you can have a number of at channels for things like mms/sms/dialing/phonebook |
| 10:20.52 | tuukkah | one for accessing via gnokii on the desktop computer? |
| 10:20.59 | anrp | gnokii? |
| 10:21.07 | mdt | tuukkah, wouldn't do that, but if you like, yes |
| 10:21.23 | mdt | tuukkah, i would do that on the phone and speak sync ml |
| 10:21.26 | tuukkah | or would gnokii need the unmultiplexed channel? |
| 10:21.42 | anrp | nothing needs the unmultiplexed channel unless it does its own muxing |
| 10:21.53 | mdt | tuukkah, no it gets one channel |
| 10:22.20 | tuukkah | ok so i think i understand this at least somewhat right |
| 10:23.05 | mdt | strange - on the pic there is no ppp for gprs using a channel - so no ip? |
| 10:23.05 | ScaredyCat | syncml + funambol |
| 10:23.14 | ScaredyCat | would be nice... |
| 10:23.16 | anrp | ppp is in there |
| 10:23.25 | anrp | not shown, would be beneath gprs0 |
| 10:23.41 | anrp | well.. more precisely, would *be* gprs0 |
| 10:23.53 | mdt | so they do ppp in the kernel too?? |
| 10:24.01 | anrp | ... ppp needs kernel support |
| 10:24.02 | anrp | lol >_> |
| 10:24.10 | mdt | but pppd is user space |
| 10:24.19 | tuukkah | anrp, gprs0 opened by pppd providing ppp0, right? |
| 10:24.27 | anrp | it has a lot of hooks into the kernel for handling the actual network interface |
| 10:24.31 | anrp | its both |
| 10:24.45 | mdt | okay... |
| 10:24.45 | anrp | gprs0 is probably someone doing s/ppp%d/gprs%d/g |
| 10:25.09 | mdt | but will openmoko have a user space pppd? |
| 10:25.16 | anrp | i'd be surprised if it didn't |
| 10:25.22 | anrp | i suppose it isn't strictly necessary |
| 10:25.33 | anrp | but that would be a lot of logic in the kernel |
| 10:25.34 | tuukkah | anrp, oh right, they say "gprs0 network device", the character device has a different name |
| 10:25.52 | mdt | okay, i have to leave - see you |
| 10:25.53 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 10:26.05 | anrp | ;/ |
| 10:26.06 | tuukkah | you can see here /dev/ttySAC0 here: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS |
| 10:26.10 | anrp | yeah |
| 10:26.15 | anrp | SAC0 is the actual serial port |
| 10:26.31 | anrp | then there's (supposed) to be an in-kernel multiplexer that exports multiple virtual serial ports |
| 10:26.38 | anrp | and takes over SAC0 |
| 10:27.20 | tuukkah | now /dev/ttyS1 is of course the physical serial port |
| 10:27.49 | tuukkah | and /dev/ttyTSn are the multiplexed serial ports |
| 10:27.52 | anrp | ya |
| 10:28.25 | tuukkah | so /dev/ttySAC0 is like one of the ttyTS's but with some grps magic applied |
| 10:28.33 | anrp | er |
| 10:28.47 | anrp | not quite.. |
| 10:28.54 | tuukkah | oh |
| 10:29.08 | anrp | on x86 /dev/ttyS? are the physical serial ports, on this platform they happen to be /dev/ttySAC? |
| 10:29.35 | tuukkah | oh, so the diagram has the wrong name |
| 10:29.43 | anrp | it would appear |
| 10:30.55 | jgm | tuukkah: sorry was afk. Reason I was thinking about multiple incoming calls at the same time is to allow things like conference calling, the Neo handling multiple incoming callers in different ways, etc |
| 10:31.18 | anrp | you can't do software conference calling (two active calls to the phone at the same time) |
| 10:31.31 | anrp | you can command the network to bind the two into one phone call though |
| 10:31.50 | anrp | if all the bits along the way support it |
| 10:32.36 | tuukkah | anrp, can we get a notification of another incoming call and decide whether to give the busy signal, direct to voicemail or bind? |
| 10:32.43 | anrp | you do |
| 10:32.54 | anrp | er. you can't send a busy signal |
| 10:33.01 | anrp | you can ignore or put current on hold and accept |
| 10:33.07 | anrp | or join into conference (iirc) |
| 10:33.20 | anrp | but these are all things you ask the network to do |
| 10:33.31 | tuukkah | yep |
| 10:34.35 | jgm | Pah so basically we can't get the Neo to handle the call itself if we're already on a call |
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| 10:34.47 | anrp | not in fun ways |
| 10:34.48 | anrp | only in basic ways |
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| 10:36.54 | anrp | i'm vaguely interested in finding out what happens if 3 people call the same phone at once |
| 10:36.57 | anrp | only vaguely though |
| 10:37.38 | Stephmw | anrp: race condition iirc, one will get through |
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| 10:38.36 | woglinde | hi |
| 10:38.43 | Stephmw | hey woglinde |
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| 10:51.06 | kristian-m | anrp shouldn't that be specified in the gsm protocol? |
| 10:51.28 | SpeedEvil | It is. |
| 10:51.40 | SpeedEvil | It's upstream of the phone though |
| 10:51.49 | SpeedEvil | So we never see it. |
| 10:52.28 | SpeedEvil | The first connection attempt to hit whatever synchronisation mechanism is used gets through. |
| 10:54.05 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil right and the other connections will get a busy tone from the carrier |
| 10:54.14 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 10:54.29 | SpeedEvil | Or a call waiting indication |
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| 10:55.07 | kristian-m | SpeedEvil there is no way to prevent this from happening. maybe you would have to take the first call at once or put it to hold asap, to handle the others |
| 10:55.26 | SpeedEvil | Not without the cooperation of the network. |
| 10:56.12 | SpeedEvil | Or asterisk running on your own phone system somewhere |
| 10:57.16 | *** part/#openmoko mil_ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 10:57.46 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right, you've gone over this, just backscrolled |
| 10:58.26 | kristian-m | oh, me too |
| 10:58.58 | SpeedEvil | What would be really nice is having the option for it to put both calls through to you using half-rate codecs. |
| 10:59.23 | SpeedEvil | But most phones would get slightly confused :) |
| 10:59.49 | Robot101 | 8000, the one true bitrate! |
| 11:00.03 | Robot101 | uh, clock |
| 11:00.11 | Robot101 | not had any coffee today ;) |
| 11:00.19 | woglinde | lol |
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| 11:02.22 | Robot101 | mm... coffee ready :) |
| 11:02.47 | woglinde | its silent today |
| 11:02.52 | zecke | woglinde: hi |
| 11:02.59 | woglinde | hi zecke |
| 11:05.10 | *** part/#openmoko empty_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 11:05.11 | mjr | Robot101, "moka" = screwup, in Finnish :] |
| 11:05.25 | Robot101 | lol |
| 11:05.37 | Robot101 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moka_Express |
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| 11:33.53 | ScaredyCat | *blink* |
| 11:34.05 | anrp | more netsplits, wee |
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| 11:40.45 | Slaytani1 | Hi people.. Has anyone tried today to build openmoko-devel-image today? It fails on compiling u-boot, because of the following error: "/home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r11_239f05ee4dd4cfe0b50f251b533dcebe9e67c360_0_2375/git/include/environment.h:107: error: โCFG_ENV_SIZEโ undeclared here (not in a function)".. Excuse me if this is not the right way of asking help here... but it's the first time I come on this cha |
| 11:40.45 | aloril | Slaytani1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:41.19 | CM | Slaytani1: I built it about 1h ago without any problems |
| 11:42.08 | CM | Slaytani1: And yes, this is the right place unless you can already find the problem mentioned in http://bugzilla.openmoko.org |
| 11:42.19 | CM | ~pastebin |
| 11:42.19 | apt | somebody said pastebin was a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 11:42.30 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tiger_zs@222.66.81.98) |
| 11:42.36 | Slaytani1 | mmm... what a strange thing... it's the first time I'm trying to build it and so I have no idea of what I should do now.. |
| 11:42.57 | Richard | How long will it take after I order neo base? |
| 11:43.14 | CM | Slaytani1: Have you tried to just restart the build? Sometimes it's an svn problem |
| 11:43.21 | CM | Richard: Until you get it? |
| 11:43.29 | Richard | CM: yes |
| 11:43.30 | CM | Or do you mean the automated mail? |
| 11:43.46 | Richard | CM: until I touch it :) |
| 11:43.54 | CM | Think it was mentioned somewhere that they'd start shipping them on the 16th |
| 11:44.14 | CM | And then it should take 2-5 days or so depending on what shipping you chose |
| 11:44.42 | Slaytani1 | CM: I tried "make update setup openmoko-devel-imahe" and failed.. more than once.. then i tried "make clean-package-uboot-gta01" and "make build-package-uboot-gta01", same problem |
| 11:45.04 | Richard | Good, I will get it after a week. |
| 11:45.12 | CM | Richard: That's best case. The manual packing can take a while.. |
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| 11:46.07 | CM | Slaytani1: Ok, strange. Look around in the bugzilla, and if you can't find it there, post the full log in a bug |
| 11:46.24 | Richard | CM: if it's more than 3 months, I will order mass product neo :) |
| 11:47.11 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 11:48.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:P1_Owners]] [[Java]] [[User:Micktaiwan]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]] [[Main_Page/de]] |
| 11:48.37 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:49.11 | *** join/#openmoko soccerpirate4 (i=8f450331@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-b698a9262fd3cc75) |
| 11:56.22 | anrp | huh |
| 11:56.29 | anrp | cingular doesn't support csd by default |
| 11:56.32 | anrp | ?? |
| 11:57.34 | anrp | well, that fucking sucks |
| 11:58.46 | tuukkah | what's good in csd? |
| 11:59.13 | *** join/#openmoko HWiz (n=ulrik@cpe.atm2-0-1141069.0x50a37492.albnxx15.customer.tele.dk) |
| 11:59.25 | anrp | phone to phone data |
| 12:00.09 | HWiz | Hey, Is everyone here having problems receiving email from lists.openmoko.org? |
| 12:00.11 | tuukkah | better than GPRS since there both the sender and receiver pay for each byte? |
| 12:00.40 | anrp | nah, its just latency is much lower |
| 12:00.51 | anrp | maybe ill go buy one of those prepaid cards to try it out with |
| 12:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tiger_zs@222.66.81.98) |
| 12:01.05 | anrp | seriously though -_- annoying |
| 12:01.28 | tuukkah | do you have interesting applications for it in mind? |
| 12:01.34 | Stephmw | anrp: there are a number of operators in the EU that don't allow phone-phone comms (not even ip) |
| 12:01.44 | anrp | vaguely |
| 12:01.46 | anrp | hm, why not? |
| 12:01.58 | Stephmw | because they're annaly retentive. |
| 12:02.01 | Stephmw | *anally |
| 12:02.06 | anrp | that's .. not much of a reason ~_~ |
| 12:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-139.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:02.18 | Stephmw | anrp: it's alas enough of a reason for managers |
| 12:02.28 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw: so put a server in the way :) |
| 12:02.30 | anrp | why disallow it though? |
| 12:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 12:02.51 | Stephmw | I'm guessing they don't want IM or VoIP |
| 12:03.16 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: it's a hassle, and has scalability problems |
| 12:03.19 | anrp | anyone crazy enough to do im with csd is filthy rich |
| 12:04.19 | taneli | symbian phones would be owned in a sec |
| 12:04.50 | tuukkah | if you have a public ip the internet can own you anyway |
| 12:04.54 | anrp | hey i've got an n80 here that has software disabled csd |
| 12:04.57 | anrp | way to go nokia! |
| 12:05.00 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-139.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:05.22 | anrp | i have a way old siemens c60 and samsung e715 that work with csd though |
| 12:05.40 | Stephmw | anrp: no sense blaming the ODM... either the soft isn't ready, or the original client operator asked for it |
| 12:05.43 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0CEC1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:05.54 | anrp | the phone supports it, some branded ones have it enabled |
| 12:06.01 | anrp | so .. fucking cingular D: |
| 12:06.48 | Stephmw | there's no end of 'customisations' that operators ask for that make us go WTF? |
| 12:08.45 | jgm | So something that would be very interesting to see on a Wiki page would be the limits of our freedom with Neo. What would we still not be able to do even with with complete control of the 'phone itself? |
| 12:09.04 | Richard | dos people program in oop manner but in c alway extend GObject types? I'm a c++ programmer, I really cannot unstand it. |
| 12:09.22 | jgm | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:09.35 | anrp | whatever the network limits us to |
| 12:09.35 | taneli | tuukkah: can you get public IP? |
| 12:09.39 | anrp | really.. |
| 12:10.16 | tuukkah | taneli, you can, and some applications need it. but then again, then the internet can ping you for a large gprs transfer bill |
| 12:10.25 | HWiz | taneli: I don't think you necessarily get a public IP per phone.. The service provider may just NAT you through their proxy anyway |
| 12:11.02 | tuukkah | with my operator it depends on the APN you connect to with GPRS |
| 12:11.29 | anrp | usually you pay for the privledge of a public ip but i guess some allow it for any plan |
| 12:11.43 | tuukkah | this is finland :-) |
| 12:12.20 | notserpe | wow the order page has colours now. |
| 12:12.33 | HWiz | I'm in Denmark, and if I recall correctly, I even had problems connecting to other ports than port 80 once... That may be because I had a broken phone API though |
| 12:13.31 | taneli | what, there are non-broken apis? |
| 12:13.41 | HWiz | :) |
| 12:13.43 | *** join/#openmoko morten_ (n=morten@ti500720a080-3363.bb.online.no) |
| 12:14.02 | morten_ | Hi =) |
| 12:14.13 | jgm | anrp: okay so I'm thinking there are two sets of limits. The first are the limits based on the technology (e.g. earlier we were discussing that you can't run two separate calls to the 'phone at the same time) and the other are limits based on what the operators may or may not allow us to do |
| 12:14.31 | jgm | The former would be an easier list as there is only one of them whereas the latter will be operator-specific |
| 12:14.35 | jgm | But still very interesteing to know |
| 12:14.49 | taneli | documenting the latter would be a really good thing |
| 12:15.19 | andylockran | at least we'll be able to connect the wifi more than 150 times a month... that's a terrible development |
| 12:15.36 | tuukkah | jgm, third group is limitations by current neo hardware and fourth is limitations by current openmoko software |
| 12:15.50 | *** join/#openmoko mib_force (i=mib_forc@2001:1638:17a5:0:0:0:0:20) |
| 12:16.19 | morten_ | The latter will not be the biggest of problems |
| 12:16.25 | jgm | tuukkah: true, although the fourth one is more of a generic TODO list for the software and so covered elsewhere |
| 12:17.29 | tuukkah | i agree that some of the software todo's can be solved with enough hackers. but some might just be too much work and never realized |
| 12:17.50 | jgm | Just as an example, I was thinking about making the Neo its own voicemail server so that it could store all voicemails locally, but to do that it would help a lot if it could open up a separate voice channel whenever someone was leaving a message (or was retrieving a message from the network's vmail system) and it sounds like we couldn't do that |
| 12:18.37 | jgm | So one section that would be handy would be 'communications limitations' that spells out exactly what can run simultaneously over a single link |
| 12:18.39 | tuukkah | jgm, what you can do is download the vmail from the network when the phone is idle :-) |
| 12:18.43 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 12:19.39 | jgm | tuukkah: agree, but like I say it's just an example |
| 12:20.02 | morten_ | Sorry to bust in like this, but anyone got their phone or gotten to know hen it'll arrive? |
| 12:20.22 | tuukkah | jgm, care to start http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Limitations |
| 12:20.23 | jgm | (the same restriction may matter for call prioritisation, or may not, depending on what information we do get when a second person attempts to call you while you are on the 'phone) |
| 12:20.29 | *** join/#openmoko kalikiana_ (n=kalikian@xdsl-87-78-115-216.netcologne.de) |
| 12:20.53 | jgm | It's really an idiot's guide to the operation of GSM in relation to software development, perhaps the equivalent of a GSM API and state machine |
| 12:21.01 | jgm | Yeah could do except I'm extremely unqualified :) |
| 12:21.43 | Stephmw | that's never stopped GWB from running a country... |
| 12:21.52 | Stephmw | get started, someone will cleanup your mistakes :) |
| 12:21.55 | jgm | Not someone I would want to model myself after |
| 12:22.15 | morten_ | *laughing |
| 12:22.55 | jgm | Given that I'm more of an application dev and the lowest I've ever gone is some minor kernel patching it's way from my area, that said I'll nose around Wikipedia and see if there is any useful information there that I can crib |
| 12:23.11 | Stephmw | best way to get started |
| 12:23.34 | Stephmw | I never got round to even thinking of submitting kernel patches... I'm must happier in app land |
| 12:24.00 | jgm | It wasn't so much something I Wanted to do as something that I needed fixed, it was in the early days of 2.5 |
| 12:24.31 | DukeOfUrl | Got some spam from Perfectone--they're advertising a GSM desk phone. One of the "features" is that the network operator can change parameters from remote. |
| 12:24.58 | DukeOfUrl | What parameters could the network operator change? |
| 12:26.02 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:27.07 | Stephmw | DukeOfUrl: all your firmwares are belong to us |
| 12:27.19 | Stephmw | depending on brand... conceivably anything |
| 12:27.41 | tuukkah | mjr, you complain about GRPS Class B so do you know about "dual transfer mode" pseudo-Class A? |
| 12:28.08 | HWiz | I can't even see why you'd want a GSM desk phone in the first place? I mean, it's not like it's meant to be portable anyway |
| 12:28.32 | Sup3rkiddo | something wrong with the mailing lists? |
| 12:28.41 | HWiz | Apparantly yes |
| 12:29.10 | mjr | tuukkah, actually I wasn't as much complaining than pointing it out to the guy who wanted two voice channels |
| 12:29.31 | buz | HWiz: the telco might want it |
| 12:29.36 | buz | means they dont have to lay copper to you |
| 12:29.54 | tuukkah | mjr, i thought you complained earlier. not that i'm complaining about that, just mentioning |
| 12:29.59 | mjr | though I suppose it might've looked much like ocmplaining :] |
| 12:30.03 | HWiz | Ah, from that point of view, it's a good reason then :) |
| 12:31.02 | mjr | well, I have commented on it before, but I wouldn't classify my comments as complaints, but ymmv |
| 12:31.18 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 12:32.00 | tuukkah | mjr :-) anyway, do you know about dtm? it sounds like it could be implemented in software as long as the network supports it |
| 12:32.03 | mjr | anyway, no I don't know pseudo-class A |
| 12:32.15 | tuukkah | wikipedia mentions it |
| 12:32.51 | tuukkah | class a requires two gsm radios, pseudo-class a doesn't |
| 12:33.01 | mjr | *nod* |
| 12:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 12:35.13 | mjr | well, the neo's gsm chip is class b. Might be physically dtm-capable, but will be up to the manufacturer to provide firmware if it is so :I |
| 12:36.02 | tuukkah | i was hoping we just send some AT command at that's it =) |
| 12:36.31 | anrp | eh it is class b? |
| 12:36.37 | anrp | that's interesting |
| 12:36.43 | mjr | anrp, most devices are |
| 12:37.03 | anrp | er, whoops |
| 12:37.08 | anrp | mentally reversed what was read |
| 12:37.23 | anrp | getting up at 3am = bad idea |
| 12:38.15 | kinlo | The gsm chip, does it do everything up to audio decoding? |
| 12:38.17 | sagaci1 | Does anybody here know how much HDD space I need for the devel environment? |
| 12:38.23 | mjr | kinlo, yes |
| 12:38.24 | anrp | i've heard up to 10gb |
| 12:38.32 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 12:38.36 | ScaredyCat | sagaci1: ~7-10gb |
| 12:38.53 | ScaredyCat | mine peaked at 7.9GB |
| 12:39.09 | hrw|gone | I had 40GB once |
| 12:39.10 | sagaci1 | Thanks. I guess it won't work on my 9GB laptop then |
| 12:39.18 | kinlo | so having a openmoko won't allow me to do special things compared to a regular mobile in terms of what you can do with the gsm network, as the entire logic is seperated in a different chip... |
| 12:39.25 | hrw|gone | and was able to fit in 3GB too |
| 12:39.27 | sagaci1 | Time to upgrade my WinXP pc to Linux |
| 12:39.39 | mjr | kinlo, correct |
| 12:39.57 | kinlo | I'm a bit dissapointed :p |
| 12:40.11 | mjr | that's your prerogative |
| 12:40.18 | kinlo | :) |
| 12:40.48 | wibbit | kinlo: Just to give a bit more info, this is a regulatory requirement I believe |
| 12:40.51 | ScaredyCat | that would require an open gsm network kinlo.. |
| 12:41.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 635 has been created by autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org |
| 12:41.03 | cdbot2 | * * uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r11_4ef218f6fdf8d747f4589da5252b004e7d2c2876_0_2348-do_quilt |
| 12:41.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=635 |
| 12:41.22 | kinlo | no seriously, I was wondering if you could for example read out things such as the technical details about your connection... |
| 12:41.31 | *** join/#openmoko emre (i=c38ee9c2@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-01d879c269ecc946) |
| 12:41.35 | ScaredyCat | cell id etc? |
| 12:41.47 | wibbit | kinlo: only if it is available from the API to the GSM module |
| 12:41.52 | kinlo | stuff like that yes |
| 12:41.55 | wibbit | I'd have thought |
| 12:42.00 | hrw | kinlo: netmonitor stuff? |
| 12:42.07 | kinlo | stuff like that |
| 12:42.15 | emre | Hi, got a question for one of the FIC folks. Anyone available? |
| 12:42.16 | aloril | emre: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:42.25 | kinlo | and playing with the values, but I guess that would indeed go against regulations... |
| 12:42.30 | hrw | kinlo: you need gsm modem datasheet for it. and this is available only under NDA |
| 12:42.31 | mjr | if it's available via AT commands, it's available, otherwise no |
| 12:42.38 | kinlo | is there a techdoc about the chip? |
| 12:42.46 | hrw | kinlo: only under NDA |
| 12:42.47 | ScaredyCat | take a look at the gsmd library... |
| 12:42.52 | kinlo | that sucks... |
| 12:42.57 | hrw | ScaredyCat: gsmd is simple |
| 12:43.06 | hrw | kinlo: thats how GSM vendors works |
| 12:43.35 | tuukkah | kinlo, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM |
| 12:43.38 | hrw | kinlo: you gave access to internals or you are allowed to connect to gsm |
| 12:44.27 | anrp | or you spend far too long with an SDR trying to reverse it D: |
| 12:44.37 | mjr | kinlo, annoying but not much good to cry about currently |
| 12:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-69-213.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 12:44.48 | emre | aloril: Are you talking about my last mail? |
| 12:45.01 | anrp | aloril knows not of what he speaks |
| 12:45.05 | anrp | i.e. script |
| 12:45.09 | hrw | bye |
| 12:45.20 | aloril | emre: its just autotrigger when new nick asks question during first 15 minutes |
| 12:45.42 | emre | hehe. |
| 12:46.33 | ScaredyCat | well it looks like you can get that, etc... looking at page 107 |
| 12:47.22 | LuitvD | what happened to the list? I get about a dozen messages at once... |
| 12:47.49 | aloril | (script) http://openmoko.com changed: sizeof(diff -u)=967 |
| 12:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-66-83.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 12:48.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 636 has been created by gianni.costanzi(AT)gmail.com |
| 12:48.02 | cdbot2 | * * MokoMakefile fails to build uboot-gta01 package |
| 12:48.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=636 |
| 12:48.19 | LuitvD | 20 new messages now... |
| 12:48.27 | LuitvD | as if they were queued |
| 12:49.13 | HWiz | Hey, so the list is working again? |
| 12:49.15 | mjr | yeah, it was down for a while |
| 12:49.18 | HWiz | It's been down for two days |
| 12:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@p7423e3d4.np.gmx.net) |
| 12:49.22 | mjr | it's expected that they burst out |
| 12:49.23 | aloril | above change is minor: one letter made upper case |
| 12:50.45 | andylockran | who just got all the backlog from the mailing lists in their inbox |
| 12:51.34 | LuitvD | I've received ~25 messages now, in the last 10 minutes |
| 12:51.44 | buz | same here |
| 12:52.06 | buz | the mailserver must be doing heavy duty rihgt now ;) |
| 12:52.55 | HWiz | Sigh.. And I just disabled all my filters because I thought that was the fault :( |
| 12:54.00 | andylockran | aww |
| 12:54.08 | andylockran | servers have been under alot of stress |
| 12:54.09 | CM | Slaytani1: Looks like you added a bug. :9 |
| 12:56.16 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 12:56.41 | CM | Slaytani1: The developers usually prefer that you add the log as an attatchment to the bug though, so they get it in the mail automaticly. Looks like some dependancy issue |
| 12:57.10 | tuukkah | could it be the same as the previous bug from autobuilder? |
| 12:57.59 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-71-206-249-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 12:58.37 | CM | tuukkah: Hmm.. looks like it could be |
| 12:59.12 | *** part/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 13:02.31 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 13:02.34 | tuukkah | in the emulator i can see there already is a gui for writing sms |
| 13:03.11 | CM | I think it's libgsmd that's missing some implementation of it |
| 13:03.26 | tuukkah | yeah |
| 13:04.01 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:04.06 | tuukkah | i would like to see a status / todo which would tell this kind of things |
| 13:04.18 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:05.57 | *** join/#openmoko Moriarty_ (n=jv@adsl-146-83-154.mco.bellsouth.net) |
| 13:06.13 | Slaytani1 | CM: should I add an attachment to the bug now? |
| 13:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko arbitrarystring (n=arbitrar@74-132-184-230.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 13:07.20 | CM | Slaytani1: No need to I think, the pastebin is permanent. Besides, the bug just before (#635) could be the same problems as tuukkah noticed |
| 13:07.37 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:07.51 | Slaytani1 | Sorry, I noticed it just after having committed the BUG :-/ |
| 13:07.55 | CM | Slaytani1: Just mentioning it for next time, since I got told to do that last time I linked in a bug |
| 13:08.18 | CM | Better twice than not at all, and your pastebin is more detailed |
| 13:09.02 | Slaytani1 | CM: ok, thanks :) |
| 13:09.04 | *** join/#openmoko Tjikkun (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl) |
| 13:10.15 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw: have you looks at icecream ?# |
| 13:11.28 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 13:11.37 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: sounds familiar... similar effort to icedtea? |
| 13:12.30 | ScaredyCat | no, compile cluster |
| 13:12.53 | Stephmw | ah, then no |
| 13:13.58 | SpeedEvil | Is anyone offering shells on a Neo? For benchmarking. |
| 13:14.09 | *** join/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 13:14.55 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:16.39 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I can offer to run anything you want me to run. And if you keep asking me, I can create a forward for its ssh. :) |
| 13:16.56 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: naah. I'm not at that stage yet. |
| 13:17.05 | SpeedEvil | Idly wondering. |
| 13:17.33 | *** join/#openmoko slytherin (n=root@203.199.147.101) |
| 13:17.48 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 13:17.59 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh. :-) |
| 13:18.16 | slytherin | Does anyone know if it is possible to use GTK+ sock icons in applications running on/in openmoko? |
| 13:18.34 | ScaredyCat | sock ... hheehe |
| 13:18.47 | Elrond | slytherin - sock icons are great. ;-)) |
| 13:18.59 | Elrond | slytherin - But anyway: Yes, they should work IMHO. |
| 13:19.45 | Elrond | slytherin - If you give me some python-gtk code, I can test easily at home. |
| 13:19.48 | slytherin | ScaredyCat: Elrond: Sorry, I meant stock icons. |
| 13:19.56 | ScaredyCat | I can't get any graphic in Xnest at all ... so erm i dunno |
| 13:20.30 | Elrond | Just the colors for "ssh -X" forwarded icons look very strange. |
| 13:20.39 | slytherin | Elrond: Can't do it right now. I am homeless currently and my PC is packed in box. Don't have access to any *nix installation from office. |
| 13:21.12 | ScaredyCat | shouldn't you look for somewhere to live ? |
| 13:21.16 | Elrond | slytherin - Well, no problem. My neo is on the desk at home, off, unconnected to usb. ;) |
| 13:21.17 | slytherin | Elrond: Do you own a phone currently? |
| 13:21.46 | Elrond | slytherin - My previous statement should answer that. ;-) |
| 13:22.00 | slytherin | ScaredyCat: I am expecting possession of new home in 15-20 days. I am living with my friend currently. :-D |
| 13:22.21 | ScaredyCat | ahh, ok... so long ats you're not in a cardboard box somehwere.. |
| 13:22.24 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@bbclaptop.student.umd.edu) |
| 13:22.32 | ScaredyCat | although, that'd mean you had wifi :) |
| 13:23.47 | ScaredyCat | I'm pretty sure I ordered some sunshine |
| 13:24.03 | ScaredyCat | .. maybe it'll ship on the 16th |
| 13:24.14 | freskog_work | could be stuck in customs... |
| 13:24.23 | anrp | think positive |
| 13:24.25 | anrp | !! |
| 13:24.32 | ScaredyCat | probably, :( |
| 13:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:24.40 | slytherin | ScaredyCat: Wasn't Neo supposed to end the war? I guess it will happen on 16th and then clouds will go away. :-) |
| 13:25.06 | anrp | and cure world hunger |
| 13:25.07 | anrp | and ... |
| 13:25.10 | ScaredyCat | I have no recollection of that at this time |
| 13:25.22 | freskog_work | has anyone tried to build their own packages for openmoko? |
| 13:25.34 | slytherin | ScaredyCat: Neo is in Matrix trilogy. :-) |
| 13:25.36 | mmazur | Neo was supposed to destroy the matrix. |
| 13:26.07 | freskog_work | I looked through a lot of the sources/packages yesterday, seems as if openmoko-libs is somewhat incomplete at the moment. |
| 13:26.08 | ScaredyCat | the Ma..what ..ix ? |
| 13:26.21 | slytherin | mmazur: Wrong. He was supposed to end the war. :-) |
| 13:26.27 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=daniel@pd95b5e66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:26.58 | freskog_work | ScaredyCat: I found some interesting tidbits in openmokoui, but that was pretty much it. |
| 13:26.58 | mmazur | And bang trinity. |
| 13:27.03 | wibbit | I thought the computers and squigy things were meant to live in harmony |
| 13:27.34 | ScaredyCat | that was ebony and ivory... |
| 13:28.10 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 13:28.16 | ScaredyCat | freskog_work: I guess there's lots to do :) |
| 13:28.37 | ScaredyCat | so who was having build issues? |
| 13:28.42 | ScaredyCat | just built fine here |
| 13:29.05 | *** join/#openmoko dtx (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 13:29.07 | freskog_work | scaredycat: seems as if they intend to create the api as they go, i.e., when an application needs a feature they'll implement it. |
| 13:29.41 | dtx | hi everybody! |
| 13:30.04 | freskog_work | Which is both good and bad ... good because maybe the api will be sane (implement stuff that people actually use) bad because it makes it difficult for us early adopters :) |
| 13:30.36 | ScaredyCat | yeah, freskog_work .. the problem is if you implement a function yourself, getting it into the tree would be nice |
| 13:30.56 | freskog_work | exactly. |
| 13:31.06 | slytherin | freskog_work: Are you looking for any particular thing? |
| 13:31.17 | freskog_work | Also having a nice API+documentation would have been sweet, from my point of view... |
| 13:32.34 | ScaredyCat | well, not you get to write bits of the api ;) |
| 13:32.40 | ScaredyCat | s/not/now/ |
| 13:32.46 | freskog_work | but to be honest, it's better that they have the underlying stuff working before the commit to the API. |
| 13:33.26 | freskog_work | I believe that they where going to have most applications implemented by their lab in Shanghai (?) |
| 13:33.47 | freskog_work | and whenever two applications required an api addition, they'd implement it. |
| 13:35.00 | freskog_work | BTW: are they mailinglists working today (as you probably guessed I'm at work and can't check my mail from here). |
| 13:35.46 | SpeedEvil | Seem to work |
| 13:36.08 | SpeedEvil | I just posted a comment after a batch came through. |
| 13:36.15 | SpeedEvil | (I'm not subscribed in digests) |
| 13:36.22 | SpeedEvil | and it went through immediately. |
| 13:36.34 | freskog_work | that's good. |
| 13:37.05 | freskog_work | Unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much activity on the framework-devel list (at least not lately). |
| 13:37.29 | freskog_work | do the core devs have their own private mail list/irc channel? |
| 13:37.47 | jgm | There is an #openmoko-devel not sure who is in it though |
| 13:38.03 | freskog_work | aha, maybe I should start lurking in there. |
| 13:38.04 | tuukkah | https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Development_resources#Internal_resources |
| 13:38.06 | *** join/#openmoko alech (n=alech@IP-213188106106.dialin.heagmedianet.de) |
| 13:38.21 | SpeedEvil | It's private |
| 13:38.30 | freskog_work | damn. |
| 13:38.55 | freskog_work | I'd be content if it was open for browsing, but eveyone except devs have been muted. |
| 13:39.03 | jgm | Agree |
| 13:39.23 | tuukkah | "The reason they are internal is either because they deal with information under NDA, or about business strategy." |
| 13:39.27 | freskog_work | s/have/had/ |
| 13:39.59 | freskog_work | Ok, well I suppose that makes sense. |
| 13:40.59 | jgm | Suppose that means that when the non-core development starts taking off we'll just form an #openmoko-hackers |
| 13:41.00 | freskog_work | Wow, you know you're addicted when reading the commit logs isn't enough :) |
| 13:41.12 | freskog_work | haha :) |
| 13:41.32 | tuukkah | jgm, #openmoko-dev |
| 13:41.59 | alech | any news on the mailserver issues? |
| 13:42.01 | freskog_work | well actually that's not a bad idea, but there's always the issue of administering it ... who gets to speak and so on ... |
| 13:42.22 | freskog_work | but having a channel dedicated to actually discussing development would be nice. |
| 13:42.35 | tuukkah | freskog_work, never had a lot of such issues on public channels |
| 13:42.57 | freskog_work | (I'm not complaining, just pointing out that people have different interests) |
| 13:43.08 | alech | I still haven't received my order confirmation nor any reply on my request for black/silver ... |
| 13:43.18 | alech | :( |
| 13:43.21 | freskog_work | Ok, I'm pretty new at IRC:ing (maybe it shows :) |
| 13:43.56 | *** part/#openmoko slytherin (n=root@203.199.147.101) |
| 13:46.44 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D84BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:46.44 | jgm | Well as we get more (some) users of OpenMoko there will be more people asking non-dev questions, at the moment it doesn't really matter because everyone here seems to want to help out on 'development' of OpenMoko in some shape or form |
| 13:47.28 | freskog_work | I've not really been on this channel for very long, so I guess I just came in at a bad time the last time. |
| 13:47.49 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU/it]] [[SH1_FAQ]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Main_Page/ro]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[Category:Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[Gsmd]] [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC/it]] [[Running_OpenMoko_on_PC/it]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] and other changes |
| 13:48.05 | freskog_work | Then again, there's not that much to discuss about development for the moment either (atleast if you're an application developer) |
| 13:48.47 | tuukkah | freskog_work, remember that you don't need a phone for openmoko |
| 13:48.57 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:49.20 | Stephmw | freskog_work: there's always usability discussions, phone usecases, etc |
| 13:50.02 | freskog_work | That's true. |
| 13:50.22 | freskog_work | But actually having the phone would probably not hurt :) |
| 13:50.30 | *** join/#openmoko _kryoko_ (n=kryoko@60-241-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 13:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 13:50.51 | freskog_work | How many people here, that plan on doing application development, have already ordered the P1 ? |
| 13:51.24 | freskog_work | I actually held of for P2 |
| 13:52.36 | freskog_work | My guess is that until the openmoko-libs are in a more complete state, there's not that much I can contribute (which is a shame). I'm afraid I just don't have the skills for the underlying stuff. |
| 13:53.34 | jgm | If time permits, but who knows on that one? |
| 13:53.39 | CM | freskog_work: I think quite a few here has ordered the phones, even if they're in early alpha state software wise |
| 13:54.03 | wibbit | CM: to be honest, the only reason I've not, is I'd want the inbuilt wifi |
| 13:54.11 | freskog_work | I think I would have aswell if I could afford to buy both. |
| 13:54.32 | CM | wibbit: I'd really like that too, but I'll save for a P2 phone too :D |
| 13:54.44 | freskog_work | I've seen people say that a lot. For me the most interesting feature is the 3D-support. |
| 13:55.12 | *** join/#openmoko untwisted_work (n=bam33@cnr00258.nursing.pitt.edu) |
| 13:55.17 | untwisted_work | mornin |
| 13:55.27 | freskog_work | And the increased performance will hopefully make sure that the interface is snappy. |
| 13:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:56.12 | freskog_work | I have this nagging sensation that the performancce is at best tolerable right now (ofcourse this would have improved over time anyway, with optimizations and what not) |
| 13:56.23 | *** join/#openmoko fralef (n=fralef@dsl-152-42.aei.ca) |
| 13:56.39 | SpeedEvil | Snappy shouldn't be a problem. Hopefully. |
| 13:56.51 | SpeedEvil | My 486/75 with 640*480 was plenty snappy. |
| 13:57.06 | freskog_work | I'm all for snappy :) |
| 13:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F154.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:57.14 | *** join/#openmoko jonwil (n=jonwil@220-245-194-178.tpgi.com.au) |
| 13:57.29 | anrp | your desktop probably had a display that was measured with more than one digit of unit... |
| 13:57.40 | SpeedEvil | laptop actually |
| 13:57.43 | SpeedEvil | unit? |
| 13:57.50 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-11e39287ac2308de) |
| 13:57.51 | anrp | inches or cm, your choice D: |
| 13:57.58 | SpeedEvil | Actually not. |
| 13:58.03 | SpeedEvil | It was 9.5" |
| 13:58.08 | anrp | ooh, close! |
| 13:58.11 | SpeedEvil | Or was it 9. |
| 13:58.43 | SpeedEvil | I have used desktops that slow, but it's been a while logner than the last time I used the lappy. |
| 13:58.47 | freskog_work | Another interesting question is whether GTK is the most appropriate GUI... What about the Enlightment libraries? |
| 13:59.05 | untwisted_work | anyone here developing for openmoko using Ubuntu 7.04? |
| 13:59.07 | freskog_work | Rasterman had a quite convicing demo at linux conf australia. |
| 13:59.09 | SpeedEvil | If GTK is uncurably slow, it's likely to expect it to go away. |
| 13:59.29 | anrp | enlightenment... eye candy for all |
| 13:59.37 | freskog_work | Indeed. |
| 13:59.48 | CM | freskog_work: mickeyl is an enligtment guy |
| 13:59.49 | jonwil | Just wanted to say that I LOVE what FIC are doing with the NEO phone |
| 13:59.55 | CM | freskog_work: And the main developer.. |
| 14:00.07 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: :) |
| 14:00.11 | CM | freskog_work: He met with raster in .tw not long ago |
| 14:00.12 | freskog_work | so it's not completely impossible in other words :) |
| 14:00.16 | SpeedEvil | I have some minor criticisms, but... |
| 14:00.29 | CM | freskog_work: He's already started with it ;) |
| 14:00.32 | jonwil | With the right applications on it, the new hardware revision with WiFi could easily be the cell carriers worst nightmare IMO |
| 14:00.49 | Kensan | freskog_work: It's actively being pursued. Rasterman has been spoted in this channel too. |
| 14:00.53 | freskog_work | To be honest I haven't really looked at the API, so I should probably be quiet :) |
| 14:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko uber_mort (n=uber_mor@c-67-163-203-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:01.00 | freskog_work | (of enlightenment) |
| 14:01.15 | SpeedEvil | freskog: Come up with some nice javascript based interfaces on a fast enough FF with all the apps as extensions, and it could work even. |
| 14:01.17 | freskog_work | That is _awesome_ news! |
| 14:01.48 | SpeedEvil | Anything can be done. And if it gets popular enough, it may even be chosen as the primary interface. |
| 14:01.58 | freskog_work | SpeedEvil: I try to stay away from javascript... |
| 14:02.15 | SpeedEvil | That was more in the way of an example, than a design suggestion :) |
| 14:02.24 | freskog_work | :) |
| 14:02.34 | Kensan | freskog_wirk: see http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/05/efl-related-work/ |
| 14:02.59 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 14:03.05 | freskog_work | Kensan: thanks! |
| 14:03.38 | freskog_work | I need to go (quitting time, yay!) see you guys later! |
| 14:03.47 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 14:04.08 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178086080.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:04.21 | jonwil | Is there any kind of wiki page or info on what apps FIC and the OpenMoko team are looking at including on the GTA02 "end user" phone? |
| 14:04.39 | alech | anyone with any insight on laforge's latest blog post? |
| 14:05.18 | untwisted | jonwil, theres some information on the comparison page between the GTA02 and iPhone |
| 14:05.23 | Slaytani1 | CM: can you tell me what should be the value of CFG_ENV_SIZE so that I can specify it by hand within the environment.h file (which is the cause of the problem I've told you above) and go on compiling the rest of the packages that make openmoko-devel-image? |
| 14:05.40 | CM | Slaytani1: I can see if I can find it |
| 14:05.41 | untwisted | jonwil, errr nevermind didn't read application information the first time around |
| 14:05.47 | jonwil | ok |
| 14:05.48 | *** join/#openmoko r4kY (n=Ladder_@ws42127.studby.hig.no) |
| 14:05.51 | untwisted | CM: how was the show? |
| 14:05.52 | Slaytani1 | CM: thanks |
| 14:06.09 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: |
| 14:06.11 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 14:06.12 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 14:06.40 | CM | untwisted: Great, and loud! :D |
| 14:07.11 | untwisted | CM: Nice :D |
| 14:07.51 | daMaestro | counter/ |
| 14:07.53 | daMaestro | counter/? |
| 14:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko Kryoko (n=kryoko@180-244-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 14:07.56 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 14:07.56 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in 6 days 21:52:03 (6.911ยฑ3.0 days) (1732;246) |
| 14:08.22 | jonwil | oh ok, the main phone apps are not yet usable so they havent decided what non-phone apps will be included on GTA02 yet |
| 14:08.25 | |R | http://www.mokoapps.org/ <- there is this that could become an app portal.. |
| 14:08.33 | |R | nothing much there right now though :) |
| 14:08.41 | aloril | alech: no doubt part of story is that he has been overworked, close to burning out at February |
| 14:09.08 | aloril | alech: also see his previous blog entries |
| 14:09.54 | untwisted | so I've decided to whore myself out for a developer moko. Who wants a codemonkey! |
| 14:10.53 | alech | aloril: ok, that sounds reasonable ... |
| 14:11.18 | *** join/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 14:11.27 | alech | aloril: I was just wondering if it was something worse, like production or shipping problems or something alike |
| 14:11.30 | jonwil | I think the real answer for "what apps will be included" depends on what apps people actually want to write |
| 14:11.37 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:11.49 | aloril | alech: no free time at all maybe for 10 months .. also doing most of time other stuff than what he was hired to do |
| 14:12.01 | jonwil | Personally I think the #1 and #2 |
| 14:12.04 | untwisted | all I know is that when the GTA02 comes out I'm turning mine in to a wiimote! P |
| 14:12.08 | thomasg | whats up with the mailinglist? it's really quiet at moment |
| 14:12.16 | CM | Slaytani1: Hmm.. Not that easy :( |
| 14:12.30 | aloril | thomasg: got now bunch of mails |
| 14:12.32 | alech | thomasg: mails end up in the archive, though. several people seem to have the same problem. |
| 14:12.43 | CM | Slaytani1: I greped in /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches and there's all kinds of values |
| 14:12.51 | alech | thomasg: I'd guess mailserver problems, not having received either mailing list posts nor my order confirmation either |
| 14:12.54 | thomasg | lol |
| 14:12.58 | thomasg | just asking, now I got a bunch of mails, too |
| 14:13.07 | jonwil | "killer apps" for the GTA02 would be a usable VoIP app (one that lets you call normal phones as well as other VoIP users) and an IM app that does all the main IM/chat protocols |
| 14:13.08 | thomasg | to be correct: 32 threads ^^ |
| 14:13.36 | untwisted | a port of pidgin called, finch :P would be cool as the chat app ;) |
| 14:13.38 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - we pretty much know that jonwil. |
| 14:13.40 | Slaytani1 | CM: I saw :'( |
| 14:13.54 | SpeedEvil | jonwil: First SMS and the contacts app need finished :) |
| 14:13.59 | jonwil | yes, they do |
| 14:14.12 | jonwil | MMS also if the hardware can do it :) |
| 14:14.37 | jonwil | for the IM, a port of the Pidgin client would probobly work :P |
| 14:14.45 | SpeedEvil | untwisted: It can be a wiimote without the equivalent of a sensor bar. |
| 14:14.54 | jonwil | If I had the money, I would buy a NEO and write some code myself |
| 14:15.12 | SpeedEvil | You can code on emulators. |
| 14:15.14 | untwisted | SpeedEvil: Oh man, yah, the gps :P |
| 14:15.19 | SpeedEvil | Or even on native apps. |
| 14:15.32 | SpeedEvil | Native X11 that is. |
| 14:15.33 | jgm | jonwil: a port of an existing app isn't what I had in mind, more thinking of something that could also handle SMS, voicemail and whatever else came along (email)? |
| 14:15.34 | jonwil | well the money and the linux programming skills :) |
| 14:15.40 | jgm | Some sort of centralised messaging center/interface |
| 14:15.51 | jonwil | that would work great. |
| 14:15.53 | jgm | Because at the moment telephone interfaces suck for messaging, they're all over the place (literally) |
| 14:16.54 | untwisted | So hard do we think porting Pidgin would be? Anyone actually looked at the source before? |
| 14:16.57 | Slaytani1 | CM: running openmoko with qemu and executing printenv I can see "mtdparts=mtdparts=neo1973-nand:0x00050000(u-boot),0x00004000(u-boot_env),0x00208000(kernel),0x00010000(splash),0x039a4000(rootfs)", so maybe I should set CFG_ENV_SIZE to 0x4000, what do you think? |
| 14:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-056-252-242.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:17.09 | jonwil | Even if not pidgin for the interface, the pidgin messaging subsystem and libraries could probobly be reused to do the IM stuff |
| 14:17.15 | jgm | Because if we're looking for a killer app for 'phones it is making the damned things much more intuitive to use |
| 14:17.25 | CM | Slaytani1: Yes, it looks like that's an ok value. Worth trying ;) |
| 14:17.27 | untwisted | jonwil: I agree |
| 14:17.27 | jgm | jonwil: I think that telepathy/empathy would be the beasts to look at |
| 14:17.40 | CM | Slaytani1: Can't say I know where to set it correctly though... |
| 14:17.58 | jonwil | aah yeah jgm, that does look like it could work |
| 14:18.07 | *** join/#openmoko robbt (n=robbt@198.234.198.35) |
| 14:18.08 | dtx | Just port Evolution over |
| 14:18.29 | CM | dtx: It's running eds-dbus already |
| 14:18.44 | jonwil | the important thing is that OpenMoko and the FIC phone can be phones built to have what the USERS want/need and not the what the carriers insist on |
| 14:18.56 | Slaytani1 | CM: I'll try setting it before the line that gives the error :), include/environment.h:107 |
| 14:19.17 | untwisted | does empathy have support for everything pidgin does? |
| 14:20.30 | jgm | Think it's missing a few plugins |
| 14:20.34 | jgm | But they're relatively easy to write |
| 14:21.01 | jonwil | Are there any plans for OpenMoko email client to support talking to Exchange? Or is it a case of "if you want that, write the code"... |
| 14:21.04 | jgm | The trick will be first to write the useful-for-phone plugins (sms, voicemail, perhaps even phone calls) |
| 14:21.29 | jgm | jonwil: probably over IMAP but can't see them putting anything else in place (although as you say...) |
| 14:22.02 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:22.34 | *** part/#openmoko fearphage (n=fearphag@xbmc/user/fearphage) |
| 14:23.12 | juco | yeah, talking to exchange over anything but imap is a headache |
| 14:23.44 | juco | I thought about writing an exchange to ical convertor at one point |
| 14:23.53 | Slaytani1 | CM: now uboot is compilinig (it did not fail on the previous error, obviously..).. The strange thing is that other people have built it today (it seems) without having this problem with CFG_ENV_SIZE.. BTW, let's see if everything will work at the end of the compilation :) Thank you for the support! (the GTA02 release seems so far :'(, I can't wait for it! :) ) |
| 14:24.14 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon_II (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 14:24.24 | untwisted | it looks like the pidgin libraries will work out well, we can just jack libpurple and write a new UI for it |
| 14:24.25 | CM | Slaytani1: I just synced and it's building right now |
| 14:24.52 | ScaredyCat | do you want it to talk to exchange or do you want to sync messages? |
| 14:25.48 | juco | I dug into the evolution exchange support code |
| 14:25.54 | Slaytani1 | CM: I don't understand how it can be only my problem, since it's something fully automated (I did not change anything..).. btw, uboot finished compiling now and MokoMakefile is going on building the remaining stuff :) |
| 14:25.56 | jonwil | I was thinking of whatever it is that Windows Mobile phones have that let them talk to corporate email clients |
| 14:26.01 | jonwil | I mean email servers |
| 14:26.02 | juco | its not bad, but its all webdav based |
| 14:26.07 | juco | undocumented |
| 14:26.09 | juco | and it changes |
| 14:26.14 | ScaredyCat | using somehtng like funambol, and a some of their gpl code, the mail clinet ould support push email too |
| 14:26.35 | untwisted | jonwil: Are you looking for just push mail or full featured stuff like synching your outlook calendar? |
| 14:26.46 | *** part/#openmoko mikini (i=c026c50e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-91a4917e4e7663ca) |
| 14:26.52 | CM | jonwil: http://www.funambol.com/partners/ |
| 14:27.11 | Slaytani1 | CM: actually, I changed one thin, I've added -cc=/usr/bin/gcc-3.4.6 to the ./configure invokation for the qemu MokoMakefile target (otherwise it tries to use gcc32 and fails), but this has nothing to do with uboot building.. |
| 14:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 14:27.47 | CM | Slaytani1: My build just finished, flashed qemu build that is |
| 14:28.05 | *** part/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 14:28.36 | Slaytani1 | CM: ok, thanks.. |
| 14:28.48 | jonwil | I wasnt thinking for myself personally, just thinking that having such functionality would mean that all the people who are told by work "you can have any cellhpone you like as long as it talks to corporate email" would be able to pick OpenMoko/NEO |
| 14:28.54 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r2380 10/trunk/oe/ (classes/base.bbclass conf/site.conf): Use archive.apache.org only as a fallback. |
| 14:28.59 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:29.24 | jonwil | but yeah, I can see why talking to the most usefull and important bits of exchange is a nightmare |
| 14:29.41 | Slaytani1 | CM: they've told me to move the bug.. http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=636 |
| 14:30.24 | CM | Slaytani1: Ok. I know Harald doesn't like the makefile much |
| 14:30.34 | CM | Just leave it resolved |
| 14:30.48 | Slaytani1 | CM: ok |
| 14:31.56 | CM | s/daking/taking/ |
| 14:32.40 | jonwil | I aggree with the idea of making the phones easier to use |
| 14:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 14:34.05 | jonwil | One area all phones I have seen to date fail in terms of ease of use is loading ringtones onto the phone. |
| 14:34.09 | CM | galexande: Not while he's coding on u-boot! :P |
| 14:34.09 | ScaredyCat | only an ounce... |
| 14:34.48 | Stephmw | jonwil: hardly surprising, operators and content owners _don't_ want you to use your own ringtones |
| 14:34.55 | jonwil | yeah |
| 14:34.59 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:35.02 | galexande | free your ringtone! |
| 14:35.14 | galexande | i'm looking forward to like /etc/phone.d/ringer |
| 14:35.21 | woglinde | lol |
| 14:35.22 | galexande | and if you want to put cat /dev/urandom > /dev/audio there, that's your own problem |
| 14:35.30 | *** join/#openmoko SBKch (n=SBKch@088156224081.sta.vectranet.pl) |
| 14:35.40 | galexande | (I used to wake up every morning to vmlinuz) |
| 14:36.23 | *** join/#openmoko webjames_ (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:36.25 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:36.28 | anrp | libc sounds a lot like a modem |
| 14:36.50 | CM | galexande: I'm waking up to Jr Ewing (Norwegian band). Not that far from vmlinuz some times.. ;) |
| 14:37.26 | ScaredyCat | wget |
| 14:37.33 | ScaredyCat | errm... |
| 14:37.50 | anrp | wget: missing URL |
| 14:37.50 | anrp | Usage: wget [OPTION]... [URL]... |
| 14:37.55 | anrp | try again? ;/ |
| 14:38.33 | jonwil | Does the FIC phone have the hardware power to do video playback? |
| 14:38.41 | anrp | possibly |
| 14:38.45 | alphaone | anrp: Thou shalt not execute commands from IRC |
| 14:38.48 | CM | Barely in P1 |
| 14:38.55 | alphaone | Could lead to data loss |
| 14:39.08 | alphaone | :-) |
| 14:39.15 | anrp | i refuse to run perl though, all sorts of nasties in there |
| 14:39.58 | jonwil | I do like the idea of being able to set whatever app you want as the ringtone app. |
| 14:40.13 | jonwil | Done right you could have fancy stuff like video ringtones |
| 14:40.21 | jonwil | and different tones for different people :) |
| 14:40.24 | untwisted | anyone interested in helping with the port of pidgin? I'm registering a new project on openmoko.org, but would like to know if others would want to help. Not sure I'll have the time to do this myself in any reasonable timeframe. |
| 14:40.59 | buz | untwisted: i'm not sure whether a port really is that helpful |
| 14:41.05 | buz | on the small screen, some things may need changing |
| 14:41.09 | alphaone | jonwil: Every program should be able to get incoming call events via dbus |
| 14:41.14 | buz | for starters, openmoko doesnt really have windows |
| 14:41.19 | buz | just fullscreen |
| 14:41.21 | anrp | bah, details |
| 14:41.31 | buz | unless by port you mean totally new ui ;= |
| 14:41.36 | untwisted | buz: Well it wouldn't be a fullon port, mostly a rewrite of the gui while using their libpurple backend. |
| 14:41.48 | jgm | untwisted: might be a better idea to try to port gossip (although again a very different UI would be a good thing here) |
| 14:42.05 | buz | does telepathy have any code these days? |
| 14:42.10 | jgm | That's what I'll be spending some of my (non-existent) development time on |
| 14:42.23 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 14:42.29 | CM | telepathy seems very promising |
| 14:42.32 | jonwil | Is there a web browser that can run on such a low power hardware yet? |
| 14:42.33 | jgm | buz: seems to, there is a version of gossip that uses telepathy exclusively and seems to work okay (I'm using it now, for example) |
| 14:42.54 | buz | i think telepathy would likely be the best way to get IM |
| 14:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD795.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:43.12 | MrFeetio | im a fan of libpurple |
| 14:43.17 | untwisted | Is the API better? What are the advantages? More lightweight? |
| 14:43.29 | jgm | Telepathy has the right split |
| 14:43.39 | untwisted | MrFeetio, have you used libpurple before? |
| 14:44.06 | jgm | It modularises everything and uses DBus to move stuff around, just seems to make a lot more sense than having a monolithic piece of code to do everything |
| 14:44.22 | jonwil | Maybe I should pull out some of these linux/unix books from my shelf and do something usefull (for example, maybe a ffmpeg port to OpenMoko with a new OpenMoko app to provide a UI) |
| 14:44.30 | jgm | And also allows us to integrate more cleanly (e.g. in to eds-dbus for contacts) |
| 14:44.44 | MrFeetio | out of all the chat programs i have used(for unix) libpurple seems the most robust |
| 14:44.46 | untwisted | jgm, those all sound like good reasons to me |
| 14:45.31 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 14:45.37 | MrFeetio | he smarter them me go with what he says |
| 14:45.48 | untwisted | Well, I guess its time to take a look at the telepathy libraries |
| 14:45.58 | mdt | did someone notice that sun presented JavaFX on JavaOne on a Neo1973? (just because we discussed java on neo yesterday...) |
| 14:46.22 | MrFeetio | is there a video? |
| 14:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 14:47.05 | mdt | yes, wait a second, a college will send it to me. it is also on the newspaper 'java one today'... |
| 14:47.19 | jgm | http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/ has a bunch of info and there is also a presentation on there (slides plus a video) that gives a good overview of what's going on |
| 14:47.39 | untwisted | jgm: thanks for the info :) |
| 14:48.01 | jgm | Also worth checking out empathy (on live.gnome.org) to see what they're doing, they are integrating telepathy and mission control to provide a new API (although it is still very early days) |
| 14:48.22 | buz | mdt: did they really present it |
| 14:48.26 | buz | or did they just show mock ups |
| 14:48.57 | buz | if they really presented it, they are rather idiotic about not releasing the jvm for openmoko |
| 14:48.58 | mdt | i don't know. but it crashed as my college says |
| 14:49.02 | mdt | so it may be real ;) |
| 14:50.05 | MrFeetio | i want to see liquid war ported for the neo |
| 14:50.05 | mdt | and it is propabl SE not ME. FX is implented for SE only for now |
| 14:50.14 | mdt | what's that? |
| 14:50.35 | bedboi | time has come to try openmoko framework |
| 14:50.49 | jonwil | Give me a good Tetris clone on OpenMoko and thats games enough for me :P |
| 14:50.58 | untwisted | openmoko uses D-Bus already jgm? |
| 14:51.01 | mdt | Jonbo, same to me |
| 14:51.10 | MrFeetio | battle for wesnoth! |
| 14:51.42 | jgm | untwisted: for bits, yep (e.g. they use EDS-DBus for their main data store) |
| 14:51.55 | bedboi | untwisted: even if i do not know very well the internals of openmoko I'm quite sure dbus is a central block for openmoko |
| 14:53.06 | untwisted | anyone here happen to use jedit ? |
| 14:53.18 | bedboi | what's up with this: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11#20070711-insanity |
| 14:53.57 | jonwil | can the hardware of openmoko do MMS? |
| 14:54.05 | woglinde | ???? |
| 14:54.27 | woglinde | jonwill why is MMS a hardware problem? |
| 14:54.51 | jonwil | I mean the GSM/GPRS hardware |
| 14:54.54 | jonwil | and interfaces |
| 14:55.11 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:55.25 | dtx | So why is Harald Welte all pissed off? |
| 14:55.49 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 14:55.58 | CM | MrFeetio: http://www.flickr.com/photos/7337648@N08/417853278/ |
| 14:56.01 | wibbit | dtx: from a discussion yesterday, I understood it to be pretty much stress related, more than any thing else |
| 14:56.21 | wibbit | CM: Now that just rocks |
| 14:56.29 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:56.39 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:56.49 | buz | too little sleep can easily give such results, too |
| 14:56.53 | wibbit | CM: Even though I'd like a bigger screen, the fact that this one has such a high resolution is nice. |
| 14:57.13 | wibbit | buz: true, though, I must be honest, I don't think comments like that are entirely appropriate... |
| 14:57.19 | CM | wibbit: Yes, we should really put all those pixels to good use ;) |
| 14:57.27 | buz | not really, no |
| 14:57.28 | dtx | So can talk of needing to contact an expensive lawyer about the legality of open GPS hardware in the US |
| 14:57.46 | buz | especially not on a syndicated blog |
| 14:57.55 | buz | it would be another thing if it was said in irc or so |
| 14:58.00 | jonwil | if I have the money when they are made available, I will seriously consider buying a wifi NEO phone |
| 14:58.06 | buz | we all know irc is to be taken with giant grains of salt |
| 14:58.09 | wibbit | buz: quite |
| 14:58.15 | bedboi | wibbit: hey this is opensource :) |
| 14:58.22 | bedboi | wibbit: opensource is nothing without flames |
| 14:58.39 | buz | bedboi: it's a difference between cursing at people and talking about killing |
| 14:58.43 | wibbit | buz: also comments are less likely to be as "public" as a blog, or accessible to general joe public (though that could be a duplicate of the original part of my statement, hehe) |
| 14:58.52 | buz | yeah |
| 14:58.59 | bedboi | buz: i think that it could be a metaphor |
| 14:59.00 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 14:59.02 | buz | in some jurisdictions that post could get you into real trouble even |
| 14:59.23 | bedboi | buz: maybe in china. |
| 14:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 14:59.30 | buz | of course it could be a metaphor, even likely so, still it's a bad post on a public blog of a high profile project |
| 14:59.38 | Slaytani1 | CM: wow... it just failed on bluez-utils-3.9-r2.... :-/ |
| 14:59.53 | bedboi | in my country Silvio Berlusconi said that people that are left party are assholes |
| 14:59.56 | bedboi | :) |
| 15:00.02 | CM | Slaytani1: What distro are you on? |
| 15:00.07 | bedboi | now go and sue him :) |
| 15:00.09 | Slaytani1 | CM: Gentoo |
| 15:00.18 | CM | Slaytani1: Same as me then :) |
| 15:00.51 | bedboi | buz: I agree that it is not so good for marketing purposes... |
| 15:00.59 | dtx | Is your country the same as the one in this video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkDp-6t-keA |
| 15:01.11 | buz | well berlusconi does a lot of weird things |
| 15:01.36 | Kensan | buz: Consider that Laforge knows that all to well and he still decided to make that post. That should give a scale of how frustrated/annoyed he must be... |
| 15:01.39 | Slaytani1 | CM: I have no ideas about the possible causes of such errors... same distro as you, you can compile it, I can not :-/ |
| 15:01.55 | wibbit | LMFAO |
| 15:01.59 | buz | Kensan: obviously, yes |
| 15:02.02 | wibbit | dtx: That is fucking hillarious |
| 15:02.04 | bedboi | dtx: that's a fake |
| 15:02.11 | dtx | a fake? |
| 15:02.12 | bedboi | dtx: btw he did worse than that |
| 15:02.14 | bedboi | yep it is |
| 15:02.26 | dtx | is it? |
| 15:02.32 | jonwil | btw, is FIC phone legal to use in australia? |
| 15:02.43 | ScaredyCat | only by kangaroos |
| 15:02.56 | jonwil | lol |
| 15:02.57 | dtx | I meanoh ok |
| 15:02.57 | mdt | for jvm on neo see http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/when_not_where and http://java.sun.com/javaone/sf/media_shell.jsp?id=193609 |
| 15:02.58 | bedboi | dtx: he is a Berlusconi clone |
| 15:02.58 | dtx | I C |
| 15:03.05 | dtx | yeah |
| 15:03.06 | dtx | haha |
| 15:03.07 | *** join/#openmoko mccarthy_ (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 15:03.10 | bedboi | dtx: i doubt he is worse than him. |
| 15:03.13 | dtx | I guess I should read the comments |
| 15:03.58 | dtx | Can't be worse than this though: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAcVZsYkspA |
| 15:04.00 | buz | Kensan: did you order a neo, btw? |
| 15:04.00 | buz | just wondering what shipping to ch costs |
| 15:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:04.11 | CM | Slaytani1: It's some bug with recent kernels btw.. Not sure why I haven't gotten it. |
| 15:04.22 | buz | grrrr 5th downtime today |
| 15:04.32 | buz | not sure whether my last messages made it |
| 15:04.34 | *** part/#openmoko mccarthy_ (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 15:04.50 | Kensan | buz: I did put in an order for Neo Base with Express (not Saver - only those 2 choices). Shipping added ~80$. |
| 15:05.05 | buz | oh ok |
| 15:05.15 | buz | i hope they will ship gta02 from europe |
| 15:05.34 | buz | (i'll be in the us in late august but sadly gta02 wont be ready then) |
| 15:05.35 | Kensan | buz: I assume they will have their own distribution channels by then. |
| 15:05.51 | CM | buz: I think they will, sounded like that |
| 15:06.00 | buz | yeah the ypromised they would have them |
| 15:06.02 | dtx | How many of the current model of Neo have been produced? |
| 15:06.07 | Slaytani1 | CM: I'll try correcting the problem again by-hand.. |
| 15:06.18 | buz | UPS might be one of the more expensive carriers though |
| 15:06.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> FAQ in progress |
| 15:06.37 | buz | i've found TNT to be quite reasonable compared to FedEx and UPS |
| 15:06.46 | *** join/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 15:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 15:07.01 | buz | (last package was 1/3 of price with tnt comapred to fedex) |
| 15:07.05 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ |
| 15:07.27 | Slaytani1 | CM: I think it's better if I'll stop here for the moment... another issue "/home/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/lib/libusb.so: could not read symbols: File in wrong format" :-/ |
| 15:07.51 | aloril | from http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006804.html |
| 15:08.08 | CM | Slaytani1: Are you trying to build native, or the qemu image? I'm on ~amd64 btw |
| 15:08.11 | Kensan | buz: Do you know of any other people from CH interested in this project? |
| 15:08.32 | buz | not sure |
| 15:08.46 | buz | i know a few linux users here and there but most say it's too big for their uses |
| 15:09.09 | buz | occasionally a .ch email hits the ml |
| 15:09.09 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-90-105.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:09.18 | buz | ~s/occasionally/rarely/ |
| 15:09.26 | Slaytani1 | CM: I'm not sure to understand.. I'd like to build everything and run the resulting image on Qemu.. I've run make openmoko-devel-image on my x86 Gentoo |
| 15:09.40 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=banyourm@dsl51B6AB6D.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:09.44 | *** join/#openmoko Gwaihir (n=Gwaihir@ubuntu/member/gwaihir) |
| 15:09.54 | buz | Kensan: did you figure out how to get openexpo tickets? |
| 15:10.12 | Kensan | buz: did not look further into that... |
| 15:10.14 | CM | Slaytani1: Should work, I've built it several times. I have both gcc-4.1.2 and 3.4.6 installed |
| 15:10.48 | Slaytani1 | CM: but is this correct? OE Build Configuration: |
| 15:10.48 | Slaytani1 | BB_VERSION = "1.6.9" |
| 15:10.48 | Slaytani1 | OE_REVISION = "<unknown>" |
| 15:10.48 | Slaytani1 | TARGET_ARCH = "arm" |
| 15:10.48 | Slaytani1 | TARGET_OS = "linux" |
| 15:10.49 | Slaytani1 | MACHINE = "fic-gta01" |
| 15:10.51 | Slaytani1 | DISTRO = "openmoko" |
| 15:10.53 | Slaytani1 | DISTRO_VERSION = ".dev-snapshot-20070712" |
| 15:10.55 | Slaytani1 | TARGET_FPU = "soft" |
| 15:11.07 | CM | Slaytani1: Please use pastebin for these things |
| 15:11.13 | Slaytani1 | CM: sorry for "polluting" the chat :-/ |
| 15:11.42 | buz | Kensan: i'd sure like to see mickey's presentation |
| 15:11.48 | *** join/#openmoko Gualti (n=kvirc@host209-225-dynamic.12-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:12.20 | Kensan | buz: yeah would be cool to meet other people hacking openmoko. |
| 15:12.46 | CM | Slaytani1: And yes, I'm building with the exact same config |
| 15:12.52 | buz | Kensan: if other events like iEX are any indication, tickets will be thru the roof |
| 15:13.15 | Slaytani1 | CM: ok, thanks again... I'll give up for the moment :-/ |
| 15:13.26 | Kensan | buz: hm... there's nothing on the website as far as I can tell. |
| 15:13.30 | buz | oh, nnice "Hinweis: Kostenloser Eintritt zu Referaten, Projektausstellung und Specials" |
| 15:14.01 | Kensan | buz: ah great. I thought it was open. |
| 15:15.41 | buz | dooh, kde is missing |
| 15:18.16 | Slaytani1 | CM: one last thing... as you can notice in the last 10 lines here http://www.pastebin.ca/616238 it fails linking libusb.so, because it says it is in the wrong format.. in fact, it is an "ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386" as "file" says.. isn't this wrong, since it should be compiled for the ARM architecture? |
| 15:19.28 | kiney_ | counter |
| 15:19.28 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in 6 days 20:40:32 (6.861ยฑ3.0 days) (1733;246) |
| 15:19.53 | kiney_ | hmm, it would be nice if someone would add GTA02 to the counter |
| 15:20.06 | *** join/#openmoko DeeQx (n=Zwain@85-156-56-59.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 15:21.09 | ScaredyCat | Slaytani1: have you compiled it for 86 before? |
| 15:21.15 | ScaredyCat | s/86/x86/ |
| 15:21.27 | dtx | I plan on getting one |
| 15:21.34 | dtx | whoops |
| 15:21.38 | dtx | I was reading history |
| 15:21.57 | Slaytani1 | ScaredyCat & apt: no, its' the first time I'm trying to compile it |
| 15:22.02 | ScaredyCat | dtx well, you can't read the future. |
| 15:22.15 | dtx | yeah, but I can attempt to be more modernist |
| 15:22.17 | dtx | ;-) |
| 15:23.35 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 15:25.30 | dtx | So can this run any GTK app? |
| 15:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko Q_Continuum (n=Q@rrcs-67-52-219-78.west.biz.rr.com) |
| 15:25.37 | dtx | Does it just skin it and run it full screen? |
| 15:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko p4tux (n=p4tux@189.169.78.75) |
| 15:28.39 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 15:28.56 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 15:29.15 | galexande | can the skins alter the size of buttons? |
| 15:29.24 | galexande | i guess i just asked a software = no question |
| 15:29.55 | aloril | kiney_: see web page for GTA02 |
| 15:30.01 | mjr | dtx, it can run any X app |
| 15:30.23 | aloril | (or you could "/msg aloril counter?") |
| 15:30.54 | galexande | why does thhe counter suggest shipping on jul 18, but i've only seen 16? |
| 15:31.04 | *** join/#openmoko blindcoder (n=blindcod@pallas.crash-override.net) |
| 15:31.23 | dtx | Is it using GPE? |
| 15:31.35 | galexande | wow, the mailing lists came back with a vengeance |
| 15:31.41 | galexande | dtx, roughly |
| 15:31.46 | blindcoder | goddamn incompetent server-housing-companies |
| 15:32.02 | dtx | So a highly modified GPE? |
| 15:32.21 | dtx | I thought it was using Enlightenment for some reason. |
| 15:32.32 | mickeyl | OpenMoko is not using GPE. |
| 15:32.42 | mickeyl | It just happens to share the same window manager |
| 15:32.46 | mickeyl | which is Matchbox |
| 15:33.04 | untwisted | mornin' blindcoder :) |
| 15:33.19 | mickeyl | We are closely watching the Enlightenment Foundation Libraries for future platform releases |
| 15:33.33 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 15:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@Yc9df.y.pppool.de) |
| 15:33.50 | dtx | For like the drawing lib and stuff? |
| 15:33.51 | blindcoder | moin untwisted :) |
| 15:34.06 | untwisted | has anyone here used the telepathy library before? There doesn't seem to be much easily found information on it, or I'm just not good at this google game ;) |
| 15:34.23 | Robot101 | untwisted: it's not just a library... |
| 15:34.26 | Robot101 | untwisted: see #telepathy :) |
| 15:34.27 | mickeyl | dtx: for the complete UI. |
| 15:34.50 | mickeyl | dtx: but not E as in the window manager, just the libraries |
| 15:35.16 | jpcass | Im trying "make openmoko-devel-image" for the first time and its falling over with "package linux-2.6.20-r2: task do_unpack: failed" - anyone else see this problem |
| 15:35.18 | untwisted | thanks robot101 |
| 15:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko Gualti (n=kvirc@host209-225-dynamic.12-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:36.01 | Gualti | hi at all |
| 15:36.06 | aloril | galexande: it adds uncertainty, lower limit is 16th (hmm.. actually its 16th in latest time zone... I'll change this) |
| 15:36.39 | *** join/#openmoko Longfield (n=valentin@tsf-wpa-3-096.epfl.ch) |
| 15:36.52 | Gualti | I'm an Italian translator of OpenMoko |
| 15:37.14 | Gualti | I need help, can someone hel me? |
| 15:37.16 | Gualti | help |
| 15:37.18 | freskog | mickeyl: which libraries are the most likely to be used in openmoko? |
| 15:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 15:37.20 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) |
| 15:37.48 | mickeyl | freskog: of EFL or GMAE? |
| 15:38.00 | freskog | EFL. |
| 15:38.14 | mickeyl | ah |
| 15:38.37 | mickeyl | evas,eet,ecore,edje,efreet |
| 15:38.38 | mickeyl | for sure |
| 15:38.46 | mickeyl | epsilon,epdf,emotion very likely |
| 15:38.53 | mickeyl | ewl or etk undecided |
| 15:39.01 | dtx | Is there a prebuilt qemu image for download anywhere? |
| 15:39.14 | dtx | Like a nightly or something |
| 15:39.16 | freskog | Should I start learning their API now, or should I just wait for openmoko-libs to mature? |
| 15:40.06 | Gualti | I have a preblem with the SVN repositoty, are there someone can help me? |
| 15:40.30 | mdt | Gualti, just explain the problem... |
| 15:40.40 | mickeyl | freskog: i doesn't hurt to look into their APIs now, however it'll take a while until we introduce EFL in openmoko. We will be using Gtk+ for the main apps for quite a while [perhaps indefinitely]. I'm leaning towards a mix of GTK+ and EFL -- each has its own strenghts |
| 15:41.14 | mickeyl | and thanks to X cooperation is no problem |
| 15:41.28 | xkr47 | :) |
| 15:41.30 | freskog | mickeyl: But the long term plan is to abstract those away through openmoko-libs, right? |
| 15:41.36 | Gualti | mtd: I've translated some .po file in Italian but now how can I upload them into tehe repository? |
| 15:42.03 | xkr47 | woo mailinglists! |
| 15:42.14 | mickeyl | freskog: it's more like complementing. I have always had a passion for high abstractions that introduce common behaviour, so that it's really simple to extend features of a platform in a consistent way. |
| 15:42.28 | mickeyl | so we might have some super high level EFL objects |
| 15:42.42 | mickeyl | however you can still treat them with the basic EFL low level functions |
| 15:42.43 | mdt | Gualti, if you are allowed to write there do a `svn commit`. if you created new files use `svn add` before |
| 15:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 15:43.15 | Gualti | I don't have write access to the repository |
| 15:43.38 | Slaytani1 | dtx: I think that what you need can be get with "wget http://www.rwhitby.net/files/openmoko/Makefile && make setup && make qemu".. and to update the flash image with the last built image, "make flash-qemu-official"... maybe someone with more experience than me with MokoMakefile can help you.. |
| 15:43.45 | mdt | Gualti, that answers your question ;) |
| 15:44.20 | freskog | mickeyl: Ok. I've pretty much been sitting on the fence think it would be EFL or GTK, but if it's possible to mix them in a sane way I guess that would be best (mixing developer pools and all that) |
| 15:44.26 | *** join/#openmoko Nire (n=wizdumb@adsl-71-132-153-226.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 15:44.33 | freskog | s/think/thinking |
| 15:44.51 | dtx | oh well thats simple |
| 15:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko galorin (n=chatzill@84.13.15.55) |
| 15:45.15 | untwisted | So after doing some reading, its come down to libpurple or libempathy for the basis of this chat client... |
| 15:45.19 | mdt | see you guys... |
| 15:45.24 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 15:45.32 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:45.35 | dtx | I was expecting an openembedded complex setup like when building derivatives of OpenZaurus |
| 15:45.36 | mickeyl | freskog: yeah. we definitely don't want to lock parties out. I'd even embrace Qt guys, if we manage to make these apps not look alien |
| 15:45.52 | Kensan | dtx: see http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ |
| 15:46.02 | Gualti | So, also i don't have access to the repository I can do "svn add" command", right? |
| 15:46.53 | jgm | untwisted: I'd like it to be libempathy, and if not then libtelepathy. Empathy is higher-level but not sure in which direction they are taking it because there isn't a lot there at the moment (at least in terms of docs and I haven't had a chance to check out the code itself) |
| 15:47.11 | freskog | mickeyl: how far has the integration of the EFL libs gotten? Do they build and possible even work ?-) |
| 15:48.42 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wishlist:Accessories]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU/it]] [[GPS_Navigation]] [[User:Gualti]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[I2C/it]] [[Screen_Saver]] [[Battery/it]] [[USB_Product_IDs/it]] [[WM8753L/it]] [[I2C]] [[Footer/it]] [[Widget_Inheritance_Graph]] and other changes |
| 15:48.57 | untwisted | jgm: Would we be able to use libempathy-gtk as well, or does OpenMoko use some special GTK foo? |
| 15:49.16 | mickeyl | freskog: i'm working on org.openembedded.dev again. they build and work fine on the device, but are not optimized or themed yet. once we officially announce the merge from OM svn to org.oe.dev, you should be able to build them for fic-gta01 machine. |
| 15:49.22 | mickeyl | i may even put them on buildhost then |
| 15:49.32 | *** join/#openmoko wonderbloo1 (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 15:50.10 | freskog | mickeyl: Lovely, this just keeps getting better and better! |
| 15:50.14 | mickeyl | :) |
| 15:50.28 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@modemcable049.94-82-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 15:50.35 | mickeyl | it's all about freedom. you don't like gtk? screw it and use E. or Qt. or WxWidgets. or whatever :) |
| 15:50.58 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 15:51.07 | freskog | s/nightmare/nightmares/ |
| 15:51.13 | jgm | untwisted: well that depends. If we want a traditional IM client then libempathy-gtk would be fine (And would end up in what would look like a port of gossip) but I'd be inclined to build our own GUI components on top of libempathy to create an IM client that was a lot more use for a mobile 'phone |
| 15:51.34 | blindcoder | yay, six hours of mail backlog trudging in, load skyrocketing, fun |
| 15:52.15 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D84BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:52.49 | untwisted | jgm: I'd say that would be the best route, we don't want something that doesn't feel natural. Unfortunately I guess there is no libempathy docs, just the code itself to work with. The guys in #telepathy said they'll answer questions if I update the wiki for them ;) Maybe libpurple IS the better way to go haha ;) |
| 15:53.27 | jgm | That's the problem with building on open source, the dependencies kill you |
| 15:53.35 | sixfeet | ja? |
| 15:53.56 | jgm | You start out trying to build a cool messaging app and end up writing AT code for the modem :) |
| 15:54.25 | SpeedEvil | Or importing a seventeen megabyte lib that also does dialup winmodems. |
| 15:55.11 | SpeedEvil | How accurate is GPRS accounting typically? |
| 15:55.11 | jgm | Yip |
| 15:55.54 | SpeedEvil | Can I - for example - send 2K over an hour in 80 byte packets (one every 5 min say) |
| 15:56.04 | SpeedEvil | and get it moderately accurately accounted? |
| 15:56.05 | untwisted | Well, off to lunch, be back later |
| 15:57.06 | jgm | SpeedEvil: It may depend on the network but I do remember that one of my GPRS providers charged me for the packet overhead as well as the data. If that was the case there would be an optimum size of payload but no idea what it is (or if they still do that) |
| 15:57.20 | SpeedEvil | I was assuming that the overhead would be charged. |
| 15:57.42 | SpeedEvil | And that was 40 bytes of real data. |
| 15:57.45 | *** join/#openmoko tosh54 (n=ph@e178236021.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:57.45 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 15:59.01 | SpeedEvil | But that sort of datarate is plausible for 'you have new email from foo (who is in your contact list), and the other way, GPS and activity reports. |
| 15:59.23 | jgm | Is your real question "is there a trickle rate that will go unnoticed by the network"? |
| 15:59.29 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 15:59.42 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering if it would be overcounted. |
| 15:59.53 | jgm | Ah |
| 16:00.02 | *** part/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dantaliz@n128-227-69-213.xlate.ufl.edu) |
| 16:00.20 | jgm | I think that gets very provider-dependent |
| 16:00.25 | SpeedEvil | Prolly. |
| 16:00.57 | SpeedEvil | What would be really nice would be able to sending a couple of bytes. but... |
| 16:01.32 | *** part/#openmoko wonderbloo1 (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 16:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko wonderbloo1 (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 16:03.26 | *** part/#openmoko Slaytani1 (n=gianni@brenta.dit.unitn.it) |
| 16:03.56 | zedstar | it would be interesting to know how fine grain providers GPRS charging is...i just assumed they divide the total amount of bytes by 1 kilobyte then multiple it by some cost and round up! |
| 16:04.26 | galorin | I just heard about the openmoko project, and it looks perfect for what I want. Is the platform stable enough right now, or should I wait for the GTA02 before grabbing the hardware? |
| 16:04.37 | dtx | Man I wish I had this MokoMakefile back when I was doing Zaurus dev |
| 16:05.00 | SpeedEvil | The hardware is stable. |
| 16:05.02 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. |
| 16:07.13 | *** join/#openmoko galorin_ (n=chatzill@84.13.15.55) |
| 16:07.18 | ferric | so if you want to hack it, then go for it |
| 16:07.44 | MrFeetio | the neo has a 2.8 inch screen right? |
| 16:07.58 | ferric | yep |
| 16:08.07 | ferric | 2.8 inch 640x480 183dpi |
| 16:08.09 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:09.18 | ferric | 283dpi, rather. |
| 16:09.40 | don-o | that seems insanely dense |
| 16:10.04 | galorin_ | Ruddy modem drops connections at a whim.. Don't even know if my first question was asked, or anything by way of answeres |
| 16:10.36 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:11.35 | SpeedEvil | The hardware is stable. |
| 16:11.37 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. |
| 16:11.48 | SpeedEvil | don-o: indeed |
| 16:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peeps@cpe-70-112-25-110.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 16:12.22 | hrw | with X11 set to 280dpi I had to set 'sans/5' as default font |
| 16:12.23 | wakejagr | SpeedEvil: GTA02 will have several hardware additions, right? Wi-Fi, accelerometers? |
| 16:12.27 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 16:12.35 | galorin_ | Ahh, I see. |
| 16:13.12 | wakejagr | galorin_: you're right in thinking that this looks really kick-ass |
| 16:13.20 | galorin_ | will the software be ready for GTA02, or will it still be a dev platform? |
| 16:13.38 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 16:14.26 | happycube | somewhere in the middle depending on when gta02 ships |
| 16:14.54 | galorin_ | Well, the hardware can do what I want.. it's software that's the problem... Anything that someone with little coding experience can help with, or should I just stand back and watch for a while? |
| 16:14.55 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) |
| 16:15.48 | *** join/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 16:16.22 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:16.32 | jpcass | still having problems getting mokomakefile to work - now failing on package uboot-gta01-1.2 with a "corrupted pack file" .git/objects/pack/pack-.... anyone seen this? |
| 16:16.41 | hrw | jpcass: yes |
| 16:16.50 | hrw | jpcass: upgrade git to 1.5.x and blame torvalds |
| 16:17.34 | jpcass | hrw: thanks! ok I'll update but reluctant to send too much blame at torvalds ;-) |
| 16:17.38 | unknown_lamer | galorin_: there' |
| 16:17.44 | unknown_lamer | s one way to gain experience |
| 16:19.07 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:19.21 | SpeedEvil | galorin: it's basically coding for GTK - so it's a pretty transferrable skill. Or you can do it in python. |
| 16:20.38 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r2381 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/util/shell.c: |
| 16:20.38 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Flush stdout after handling each event. |
| 16:20.38 | CIA-24 | openmoko: This should fix http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=606 |
| 16:21.31 | *** join/#openmoko mikini (n=miki@x1-6-00-50-04-32-23-2b.k94.webspeed.dk) |
| 16:23.15 | don-o | when did mokomakefile start using git? |
| 16:26.04 | Kensan | don-o: Openembedded requires git so AFAIK it has been using git from the begining. |
| 16:26.32 | don-o | Kensan: when i built openmoko a couple weeks ago, it used monotone |
| 16:26.36 | *** join/#openmoko spliff (n=frost@p54B1D850.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:26.42 | hrw | bye |
| 16:26.54 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 16:27.12 | Kensan | don-o: git is used to pull the source from git-repos as commanded by certain recipes |
| 16:28.45 | *** join/#openmoko soccerpirate4 (i=8f450331@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-414fd5f35005ce83) |
| 16:32.04 | wonderbloo1 | please update http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ChangeLog |
| 16:32.07 | *** part/#openmoko wonderbloo1 (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 16:32.17 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 16:33.45 | *** part/#openmoko [psy] (n=psy0rz@lounge.datux.nl) |
| 16:37.21 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484C6D4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko Drahkri (n=kjdfa@12.6.164.34) |
| 16:53.44 | untwisted | hello again, back from lunch |
| 16:58.09 | ferric | wow |
| 16:58.14 | ferric | did anyone see this on the wiki: |
| 16:58.14 | ferric | UPDATE neo1973 made it straight through customs with no duty, delay or costs. |
| 16:58.45 | galexande | happy happy day! |
| 16:58.53 | SpeedEvil | ferric: isn't that the P0s? |
| 16:59.14 | galexande | i hope there aren't like a couple of kernel hackers in california that are going to be responsible for ripping down the crates and putting them in shipping boxes |
| 16:59.43 | ferric | SpeedEvil: oh. yes. |
| 16:59.45 | ferric | (sorry) |
| 16:59.56 | SpeedEvil | That's OK. We'll kill you quickly :) |
| 16:59.58 | ferric | haha |
| 17:00.18 | ferric | i just looked at the edits page on 'Shipping notes' and that edit from Liane is from a long time ago |
| 17:00.35 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:00.37 | Kensan | ferric: Suzhou is an industrial park outside of Shanghai and it makes it easiert for companies in those parks to ship out products. |
| 17:00.47 | ScaredyCat | ... will ferric blend ? |
| 17:00.57 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A34E2F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:01.26 | ferric | Kensan: ah. |
| 17:02.06 | galexande | heh, i love how all of the information coming from FIC is as if the GTA01 is a regular product which is available for purchase |
| 17:02.17 | galexande | rather than something which got completelygobbled up in basically one lump of orders on one day |
| 17:02.17 | ferric | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/SH1_FAQ <- atleast that's new. :) |
| 17:02.29 | Kensan | ferric: paradoxically in some cases it is easier to ship items internationally than to the local chinese market. |
| 17:02.35 | ferric | galexande: i think there are indications that they can produce as many as you want. |
| 17:02.54 | ferric | Kensan: of course, exports bring in US $ |
| 17:03.01 | ferric | everyone loves US$ |
| 17:03.02 | ferric | :D |
| 17:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590e355e.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 17:03.19 | ferric | especially the chinese gov't since they practically own half o the US forex. :) |
| 17:04.02 | galexande | ferric, yeah but on the calendar it won't look like orders going on for months at a time, it'll look like 1000 orders on jul 9, and 1000 orders on sep 9 when the next batch is available |
| 17:04.03 | galexande | :) |
| 17:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:07.02 | ferric | does it really take two months to get a 1000 phones out? |
| 17:07.31 | galexande | ferric, i think they said they could build more on a 6 week lead time |
| 17:07.39 | ferric | ah |
| 17:07.52 | galexande | well, sean sead |
| 17:08.04 | ferric | how many P0 phones were distributed, anyone know? |
| 17:08.18 | galexande | ferric, ~30 |
| 17:08.27 | ferric | ah |
| 17:08.34 | ferric | well, i don't know how many are going to come to the US Now |
| 17:08.50 | ferric | considering the fact that there is significant interest in the phone from around the world |
| 17:09.18 | Vegar | they're being shipped from the US |
| 17:09.33 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 17:09.51 | anrp | they're all going to the us, then getting shipped back out |
| 17:09.56 | anrp | at least for the initial shipment of p1 |
| 17:10.04 | ferric | ah |
| 17:10.05 | anrp | simpler logistics |
| 17:10.22 | ferric | i wonder if that's how other bigger manufacturers do it. (apple, etc.) |
| 17:10.43 | anrp | probably? |
| 17:10.48 | anrp | i know apple definately stocks in the us |
| 17:10.56 | ferric | for international shipments? |
| 17:11.06 | anrp | oh.. that |
| 17:11.07 | ferric | i know shipments to the US ship from china |
| 17:11.10 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@74-140-187-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 17:11.18 | anrp | no, apple is across the world, although its mostly concentrated in the us |
| 17:11.19 | Kero | any status update on P1 shipment(s)? |
| 17:11.25 | mjr | others don't sell just thousands of units direct to customers |
| 17:11.38 | ferric | Kero: nothing other than the new FAQ page. |
| 17:11.43 | ferric | mjr: true |
| 17:11.46 | galexande | kero, no |
| 17:12.04 | ferric | i'm surprised that FIC is making the tech team handle shipping logistics. |
| 17:12.16 | galexande | i think that's what the openmoko company is all about.. |
| 17:12.31 | galexande | the techies realized that the way FIC typically handles shipping wouldn't work, so they lobbied to get to control it all themselves |
| 17:12.35 | galexande | FIC was totally supportive, but now it's a ton of work |
| 17:12.37 | ferric | so openmoko is not owned by FIC? |
| 17:12.53 | *** join/#openmoko wizdumbNire (n=wizdumb@adsl-71-132-131-47.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:12.54 | galexande | it is owned by FIC |
| 17:13.04 | galexande | but at least some administrative decisions are made internally to openmoko |
| 17:13.06 | ferric | oh but it is semi-autonomous |
| 17:13.12 | ferric | cool. |
| 17:13.22 | galexande | such as, presumably, how to run distribution |
| 17:13.24 | galexande | they get some staff from fic |
| 17:14.18 | Kero | ok, thx |
| 17:14.41 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
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| 17:15.36 | ScaredyCat | :o order page is different |
| 17:15.57 | Elrond | What changed? |
| 17:16.27 | ScaredyCat | there's colour choices |
| 17:17.07 | Elrond | More than two? |
| 17:17.12 | ScaredyCat | no... |
| 17:17.13 | anrp | a minor oversight from the original ordering site |
| 17:17.16 | anrp | ... |
| 17:17.18 | ScaredyCat | but you get to pick... |
| 17:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-74-132.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 17:21.21 | *** join/#openmoko tsdogs (n=tsdogs@84.18.144.39) |
| 17:21.37 | Moriarty_ | question re: openmoko building... I'm getting an error building openmoko-dialer - arm-linux-libtool can't execute dbus-binding-tool. I recall a mention of this earlier, but didn't see a fix. |
| 17:21.45 | Moriarty_ | has anyone come across this problem? |
| 17:23.23 | ScaredyCat | there needs to ne a new question on that faq... |
| 17:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko mikeleib (n=ike@jffwpr02.jf.intel.com) |
| 17:23.59 | ScaredyCat | "Once your order has been confirmed, and the credit card has been charged, " |
| 17:23.59 | galexande | moriarty, i did, and my solution was stupid, but you may use it too :) |
| 17:23.59 | ChumleyEX | anyone get the phone |
| 17:23.59 | ScaredyCat | Q. When are you going to charge my CC" |
| 17:24.00 | noidd | NOTE: package bluez-libs-3.9: started |
| 17:24.00 | noidd | oops, sorry |
| 17:24.00 | Moriarty_ | galexande: stupid solutions are fine. :) |
| 17:24.14 | noidd | that was meant to go elsewhere |
| 17:24.22 | mikeleib | wow... 347 people in channel |
| 17:24.23 | galexande | moriarty, in whatever directory openmoko-dialer is, there is a Makefile, and it has a definition for like GLIB_BIN which should be like /mokodir/build/tmp/staging/arm-linux/lib/../bin/ |
| 17:24.34 | galexande | moriarty, you need to change that arm-linux to i686-linux (or whatever your host-linux is) |
| 17:24.37 | Moriarty_ | ah. |
| 17:24.47 | *** part/#openmoko robbt (n=robbt@198.234.198.35) |
| 17:24.58 | galexande | because it should be running the host tools on the host :) |
| 17:25.00 | Moriarty_ | do you know if that needs to be fixed upstream? |
| 17:25.15 | noidd | Mike: several hundred - with varying amounts of commitment and contribution. |
| 17:25.17 | galexande | i would assume it does, but i'm totally inept at bitmake/mokomakefile/monotone/svn |
| 17:25.21 | mikeleib | zowy |
| 17:25.26 | galexande | bitbake |
| 17:25.51 | wonderblood | is there a way to browse trought newslists with thunderbird? (like a "real" newsserver?) |
| 17:26.21 | *** part/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 17:26.25 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 17:26.29 | ScaredyCat | turn threading on?? |
| 17:26.55 | unknown_lamer | use gnus? |
| 17:27.55 | wonderblood | pidgin stops working whenever I want to chat here.... :-( cu in 2 seconds |
| 17:27.55 | *** part/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 17:27.55 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 17:28.09 | ScaredyCat | whhoooaaa!!! |
| 17:28.12 | ScaredyCat | mkdir: cannot create directory `/etc/gtk-2.0': Permission denied |
| 17:28.24 | ScaredyCat | good.. wtf are you trying to do that! |
| 17:28.25 | aloril2 | galexande: they supposedly have parts ready for next patch, so they supposedly could produce it in few days once production is scheduled |
| 17:28.32 | anrp | don't make install D: |
| 17:29.02 | ScaredyCat | I didn;t |
| 17:29.03 | aloril2 | it would be separate wait for customs though |
| 17:29.52 | ScaredyCat | well it shouldn;t |
| 17:30.01 | ScaredyCat | the FCC are irrelavant |
| 17:30.07 | ScaredyCat | in the rest of the world |
| 17:30.14 | unknown_lamer | btw, opengraphics has a minimal X driver for the dev board now |
| 17:30.15 | Moriarty_ | galexande: thanks for the tip. |
| 17:30.20 | aevin | FCC is evil |
| 17:30.25 | unknown_lamer | yippe three pieces of free hardware lying about |
| 17:31.12 | galexande | aloril, neat |
| 17:31.19 | galexande | mori, did it work for you? :) my directions sucked i know :) |
| 17:32.06 | Moriarty_ | oh I followed the directions. |
| 17:32.14 | Moriarty_ | unfortunately I'm building on a really slow virtual machine. |
| 17:32.17 | galexande | heh |
| 17:32.23 | *** join/#openmoko christian_ (n=chatzill@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 17:32.23 | galexande | it doesn't get much faster on a real pc |
| 17:32.26 | galexande | maybe a modern smp box |
| 17:32.29 | Moriarty_ | if it doesn't work, I'm sure I can bodge it into functioning. |
| 17:33.03 | Moriarty_ | galexande: technically this *is* a modern smp box. It's just VM'ed into thinking it's an 8088. :P |
| 17:33.06 | ScaredyCat | took 308 minutes on a dual xeon 2.4ghz + 2gb ram |
| 17:33.25 | unknown_lamer | damn |
| 17:33.26 | galexande | heh |
| 17:33.37 | unknown_lamer | maybe my dual athlon could do in a bit less time |
| 17:33.59 | galexande | my five year old athlon with slow nfs storage took a good 12 hours of actual run-time, at least |
| 17:34.02 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 17:34.04 | Moriarty_ | I'm sure if I could run it on all the cores, it would do better. |
| 17:34.20 | unknown_lamer | I am perplexed that gcc uses more ram compiling c++ than sbcl does when compiling lisp |
| 17:34.32 | unknown_lamer | Moriarty_: make -j3 ? |
| 17:34.37 | anrp | evolution of offloading work to the compiler |
| 17:34.49 | *** part/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L0ce2.l.pppool.de) |
| 17:34.59 | Moriarty_ | unknown_lamer: the VM only has one core. :) |
| 17:35.04 | unknown_lamer | ah |
| 17:35.15 | untwisted | so whats a good name for an empathy based chat app ;) |
| 17:35.17 | SpeedEvil | I don't. |
| 17:35.25 | Moriarty_ | I didn't want to clutter up my normal world with all the openembedded packages. |
| 17:35.37 | SpeedEvil | untwisted: moody? |
| 17:35.37 | freskog | what could possibly go wrong? |
| 17:35.44 | unknown_lamer | Moriarty_: chrooted debian install? |
| 17:35.54 | Moriarty_ | almost. Full virtual machine. |
| 17:36.08 | unknown_lamer | oh, I was suggesting that instead |
| 17:36.16 | unknown_lamer | if you wanted to keep separate worlds and not lose the smp advantage |
| 17:36.25 | Moriarty_ | wouldn't help. My 'normal world' is a virtual machine too. :) |
| 17:36.29 | unknown_lamer | ah |
| 17:36.31 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:36.43 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid1 (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 17:36.52 | Moriarty_ | granted, once bitbake stops navel-gazing, it tends to move a little better. |
| 17:38.50 | untwisted | hmmm |
| 17:38.52 | untwisted | moody eh |
| 17:39.20 | unknown_lamer | stupid bitbake trying to reach enlightenment |
| 17:40.56 | untwisted | hmmm, what about sympathy, or affinity |
| 17:42.37 | freskog | untwisted: I actually quite like moody. |
| 17:43.11 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:45.58 | mikeleib | where is the keyboard widget? |
| 17:46.34 | untwisted | freskog: I suppose moody could work |
| 17:47.35 | freskog | empathy sounds a bit dorky if you ask me (wow that would sound really bad out of context), moody sounds more like a IM-client :) |
| 17:47.52 | untwisted | Well its based on the empathy libraries |
| 17:48.04 | untwisted | So I wouldn't name it empathy |
| 17:48.07 | freskog | I know, that's why I like the contrast. |
| 17:48.17 | untwisted | oh oh, I see |
| 17:48.41 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[User:Cristraum]] [[Main_Page/ro]] [[FAQ/de]] [[Group_Order]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status/it]] [[Battery_Monitor]] [[Battery_Monitor/it]] [[User:WonderBlood]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] and other changes |
| 17:49.09 | untwisted | Would you be interested in working on such a project? I want to register the project with OpenMokoProjects, but not until I have some manpower. I'm not sure how much time I'd have to dump in it :P |
| 17:49.27 | freskog | Actually, yes. |
| 17:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:49.48 | untwisted | Have you use libempathy before? I personally have not. |
| 17:49.50 | freskog | I've been looking for a first project for some time now. |
| 17:50.06 | freskog | No, but that's half the fun now, isn't it :) |
| 17:50.11 | untwisted | haha, too true |
| 17:50.30 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:50.33 | freskog | I believe they are planning a presentation of the library for guadec. |
| 17:50.57 | aevin | when's GUADEC? |
| 17:51.01 | freskog | The presentation is titled something like "how to write an IM-client in 20-lines of python" |
| 17:51.07 | freskog | starts sunday. |
| 17:51.18 | freskog | www.guadec.org |
| 17:51.19 | untwisted | yah, I saw that |
| 17:51.28 | untwisted | I'm extremely interested |
| 17:51.30 | freskog | Some really nice talks this year. |
| 17:51.59 | freskog | Usually they tape the presentations, so it possible to view (almost) all presentations afterwards. |
| 17:52.07 | freskog | (online) |
| 17:52.23 | untwisted | Oh, awesome, I was really hoping to get a transcript, but that'd be great |
| 17:52.42 | mikeleib | input-methods.. duh |
| 17:52.48 | untwisted | would you like to join me in #moody-im? |
| 17:52.54 | aevin | freskog: yeah, i was too lazy to check myself. it seems to be july 15-21. just around the corner of the weekend. |
| 17:52.56 | untwisted | we can discuss the idea a bit more |
| 17:53.44 | freskog | already there... |
| 17:54.16 | untwisted | in #moody-im ? |
| 17:54.19 | untwisted | whoops |
| 17:54.22 | untwisted | I mistyped lol |
| 18:00.14 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-78-201.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:00.33 | ChumleyEX | so are things going good with the phone |
| 18:01.09 | anrp | wish we knew |
| 18:01.25 | ChumleyEX | noone has one? |
| 18:01.33 | anrp | phase0 devs do |
| 18:01.47 | anrp | but those are only 30, and not the same hw |
| 18:02.02 | ChumleyEX | have they sent out any new newsletters |
| 18:02.15 | SpeedEvil | P1 devs have around 50 too |
| 18:02.22 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 18:02.22 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 18:02.25 | anrp | huh? |
| 18:03.51 | ChumleyEX | man I hope this works out |
| 18:05.38 | *** join/#openmoko nacer (n=nacer@l.alcolo.a.mpl.pastIX.net) |
| 18:05.47 | nacer | hi |
| 18:05.51 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0CEC1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:05.58 | ChumleyEX | howdy |
| 18:06.15 | anrp | when did p1 devs get em ~_~ |
| 18:08.34 | nacer | there is a lot of people here :) |
| 18:08.54 | ChumleyEX | yeah. not much to talk about yet |
| 18:09.26 | nacer | perhaps we can try to speak about hoe to run t he OS on qemu |
| 18:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCCB0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:11.26 | tri | hi |
| 18:11.47 | untwisted | howdy |
| 18:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 18:12.44 | nacer | the flash.sh script dont work good on ubuntu feisty |
| 18:13.26 | nacer | openmoko/flash.sh: line 88: 17296 Complรฉtรฉ $qemu -mtdblock "$script_dir/$flash_base" -kernel "$script_dir/$1" -serial stdio -nographic -usb -monitor null 0<&0 |
| 18:13.26 | nacer | U-boot failed to finish writing in 300 seconds, giving up. |
| 18:15.22 | *** part/#openmoko mikeleib (n=ike@jffwpr02.jf.intel.com) |
| 18:16.25 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 18:17.19 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 18:18.49 | nacer | my mistake script doing well |
| 18:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-17-194.net.novis.pt) |
| 18:23.59 | ruimoreira | hi folks |
| 18:23.59 | ruimoreira | :D |
| 18:24.53 | ruimoreira | anyone ... how long did it take for you guys to get the email with the order confimation |
| 18:24.59 | ruimoreira | ? |
| 18:25.29 | ruimoreira | i ordered mine today :D |
| 18:25.33 | gcb77_ | ruimoreira: I'm still waiting... ordered on Sun |
| 18:25.40 | ruimoreira | wow |
| 18:25.41 | ruimoreira | .... |
| 18:25.59 | ruimoreira | i am anxious to get mi device :P |
| 18:26.06 | spliff | just relax :) |
| 18:26.10 | mmazur | Yeah. |
| 18:26.17 | ruimoreira | easy to say :D |
| 18:26.18 | mmazur | Those two months will pass by in no time. |
| 18:27.12 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:30.42 | ruimoreira | does anyone here use Neo as primary phone ? |
| 18:32.51 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 18:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@dslb-088-065-254-049.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:33.53 | *** part/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-17-194.net.novis.pt) |
| 18:33.58 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-17-194.net.novis.pt) |
| 18:37.03 | noidd | ruimoreira: what was your order / ticket #? |
| 18:37.59 | *** join/#openmoko lal1 (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 18:38.39 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 18:38.46 | ruimoreira | noidd: checking .... plz hold :P |
| 18:39.21 | ruimoreira | 33XX |
| 18:39.34 | galexande | dear openmoko shipping department, |
| 18:39.38 | galexande | my birthday is the 19th |
| 18:39.41 | galexande | please take appropriate steps. |
| 18:39.57 | ruimoreira | :D |
| 18:40.03 | ruimoreira | galexande: mine is 17 th |
| 18:40.04 | ruimoreira | :D |
| 18:40.12 | galexande | openmoko release party babies :) |
| 18:40.20 | ruimoreira | hope they do take those steps |
| 18:40.20 | ruimoreira | :D |
| 18:41.33 | ruimoreira | noidd: got it ? |
| 18:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:46.47 | *** join/#openmoko phrozen77 (n=phrozen7@unaffiliated/phrozen77) |
| 18:46.55 | phrozen77 | hi all |
| 18:47.32 | ruimoreira | ScaredyCat: i think everyone does :P |
| 18:48.02 | Kero | deprived of even that info... |
| 18:48.56 | galexande | at least you aren't deprived of coffee :( |
| 18:49.50 | Kero | should buy new coffee in the little shop in the city centre sooner rather than later :) |
| 18:49.52 | ruimoreira | Kero: Hold on mate :P .... |
| 18:50.12 | Kero | still got tea, beer and stronger stuff :) |
| 18:51.24 | freskog | anybody else get a failed build with mokomakefile at coreutils? |
| 18:51.37 | freskog | coreutils-native, that is. |
| 18:53.04 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s[WORK]_ (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:53.08 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 18:54.15 | ScaredyCat | it's cold coffee from last week |
| 18:54.48 | ScaredyCat | I was seeing if I could grow something useful before my pokey mokey arrived |
| 18:55.02 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-78-201.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:55.25 | phrozen77 | is october the definitive release-date for the gta02? |
| 18:55.25 | aloril | phrozen77: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:55.52 | phrozen77 | ehehe nice script - i know the wiki inside out now already :P |
| 18:57.00 | aevin | phrozen77: no, i wouldn't look at it as a definitive release date. |
| 18:57.27 | phrozen77 | that'd make a *perfect* birthday-present, though :P |
| 18:57.34 | galexande | phrozen, i wouldn't bet on it |
| 18:57.47 | phrozen77 | yah - i never bet on announced rls-dates =) |
| 18:57.49 | *** part/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 18:57.50 | phrozen77 | thats why im asking |
| 18:58.04 | *** join/#openmoko waecky (n=waecky@p549CD270.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:58.48 | phrozen77 | i mean - the gta01 already almost sealed the deal to me - but hearing it'll support wifi in a few months makes me wish for a timemachine |
| 18:59.18 | galexande | i think the heuristic for determining whether a release date is accurate or a wild-assed-guess is: date_sub(release, interval 2 weeks) < now() ==> definitive date |
| 18:59.27 | phrozen77 | ^^ |
| 18:59.47 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:59.58 | Elrond | spliff - BTW: The sirfIII based thingy I have for comparison here is better than the Neo. :-| |
| 19:00.03 | Elrond | huh |
| 19:00.08 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - BTW: The sirfIII based thingy I have for comparison here is better than the Neo. :-| |
| 19:00.20 | phrozen77 | or checking back when the gta01 has been anounced to be released and with when we got it this time =) |
| 19:00.37 | phrozen77 | might be a good indicator too |
| 19:00.47 | Elrond | phrozen77 - it has been released. What's the problem? |
| 19:01.07 | galexande | elrond, phrozen was just suggesting the use of science to determine the precision of release date estimates :) |
| 19:01.14 | phrozen77 | thanks galexande :) |
| 19:01.17 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: 'd be interesting to do proper comparison. |
| 19:01.25 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: same antenna. |
| 19:01.38 | SpeedEvil | Ho wmuch? |
| 19:01.48 | anrp | sirf3 is a bit higher power usually |
| 19:01.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah, I of course compared complete set. ;-) |
| 19:01.58 | galexande | sirf3=gps? |
| 19:02.04 | anrp | yeah, gps chipset |
| 19:02.04 | SpeedEvil | Yes |
| 19:02.16 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: you did point GPS to sky first? |
| 19:02.18 | galexande | does sirf3 work in buildings? :) |
| 19:02.22 | SpeedEvil | the GPS antenna |
| 19:03.10 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - "How much"... well, the sirfIII gets a fix on my desk <5min. the neo can ly around for hours and doesn't get anything. Even worse: I took it outisde for 10 minutes (so it gets the almanac/ephemeris for real), while leaving it on, took it to my desk. It lost signal very quickly. |
| 19:03.21 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 19:03.24 | galexande | ohwell |
| 19:03.30 | Rince | is it possible to put an sirf3 into neo? ;) |
| 19:03.39 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:03.46 | SpeedEvil | Not practically. |
| 19:03.46 | anrp | that was an easy answer |
| 19:03.49 | galexande | something tells me "plaster and lath" will block gps completely and my phone will never know when i'm ohme |
| 19:04.00 | galexande | i guess it will ask my bluetooth for its location :) |
| 19:04.09 | *** part/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 19:04.10 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 19:04.10 | SpeedEvil | galexande: depends. |
| 19:04.11 | phrozen77 | ool |
| 19:04.13 | phrozen77 | lol |
| 19:04.20 | ScaredyCat | revert to cell id / gps lookup |
| 19:04.21 | galexande | the neo does have a semi-convenient gps antenna connector (iirc) if you want external antenna |
| 19:04.28 | SpeedEvil | galexande: the roof stucvture and the thickness. |
| 19:04.43 | SpeedEvil | Actually. |
| 19:04.49 | *** join/#openmoko V0sen[nL]` (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 19:04.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - of course the antenna on the neo might not be connected correctly, etc. So this is all "my neo", not "neo in general". |
| 19:05.09 | ScaredyCat | your p0 neo ? |
| 19:05.11 | SpeedEvil | GPS modules are small enough that you could in fact add it on inside the case. |
| 19:05.15 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yes. |
| 19:05.22 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - Yes. |
| 19:05.25 | *** join/#openmoko wakejagr (i=cael@unaffiliated/wakejagr) |
| 19:05.43 | ScaredyCat | has the h/w changed much between p0 and p1 ? |
| 19:05.51 | ScaredyCat | in real terms |
| 19:05.55 | galexande | bug fixes |
| 19:05.55 | SpeedEvil | Not much. |
| 19:05.58 | galexande | important ones |
| 19:05.59 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - Only bugs fixed, small improvements. |
| 19:06.16 | SpeedEvil | User-visible other than the bugfixes - none. |
| 19:06.49 | Elrond | I wouldn't be surprised, if P0 have been hand assembled, and thus the antenna connection isn't 100%. |
| 19:07.28 | galexande | well, the youtube video of gps looks like it's done indoors, but it could be a shed with a tarp roof :) |
| 19:07.29 | SpeedEvil | It's not impossible |
| 19:07.43 | SpeedEvil | galexande: look on the Global Locate website. |
| 19:07.50 | phrozen77 | liked the drop-test =) |
| 19:07.52 | SpeedEvil | They claim lock inside a metal filing cabinet. |
| 19:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@142.163.211.34) |
| 19:08.06 | galexande | speed, yeah a friend-of-a-friend works for them and says it should work indoors |
| 19:08.19 | Elrond | Well, my roof has lots metal in it. ;-) |
| 19:08.34 | *** join/#openmoko Moo1 (n=dgo@77.56.134.217) |
| 19:08.36 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-797b7edeb96fa476) |
| 19:08.47 | Moo1 | hi there, Is the neo 1973's CPU an ARM one ? |
| 19:08.48 | aloril | Moo1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:09.03 | phrozen77 | :P |
| 19:09.09 | SpeedEvil | (in an affirmative way) |
| 19:09.37 | Elrond | To repeat: This is anything but a citable or proper benchmark, nor does it say anything about the Bv04s sold now. |
| 19:09.42 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 19:09.51 | mjr | mool, indeed |
| 19:10.13 | galexande | as someone who likes to post diatribes on his website, i am confused about how to talk about neo |
| 19:10.31 | galexande | because i will inevitably review the included software at gta01 release and say some mean things, but i will be happy about the state of things and i don't want anyone getting the wrong idea |
| 19:10.43 | Moo1 | mjr: do you answer to my question ? |
| 19:11.10 | Elrond | galexande - Just cite mickey on the state of the software, job done. |
| 19:11.16 | phrozen77 | Moo1, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware |
| 19:11.46 | Moo1 | phrozen77: yes, I know this page but it is no specified |
| 19:12.30 | mjr | Moo1, no, I just said "indeed" for the hell of it |
| 19:12.42 | galexande | moo, you may enjoy http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware |
| 19:12.50 | galexande | that has links to all thhe detailed info you could deram of |
| 19:13.07 | galexande | oh, i'm slow |
| 19:13.21 | phrozen77 | getting older? =) |
| 19:13.27 | *** join/#openmoko chouse (n=chadh@142.163.211.34) |
| 19:13.31 | galexande | me bones, they be a creakin |
| 19:13.48 | phrozen77 | i hear you (no pun intended) :P |
| 19:16.14 | dtx | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:16.15 | dtx | | *** building glibc. Please change the environment variable |
| 19:16.15 | dtx | | *** and run configure again. |
| 19:16.25 | galexande | if my neo doesn't get here soon, i'm going to make a neo-shaped cardboard cutout and tape it to my phone |
| 19:16.26 | dtx | How should I chage this |
| 19:16.46 | ferric | dtx: exprt LD_LIBRARY_PATH? |
| 19:16.56 | galexande | dtx, do you have a manually-defined LD_LIBRARY_PATH like in your .bashrc? |
| 19:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko schurig_home (n=schurig@p54B2C388.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:17.10 | dtx | It's just /usr/local/panda3d/lib |
| 19:17.12 | dtx | nothing else |
| 19:17.18 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback__ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:17.23 | dtx | It does have a colon on the end |
| 19:17.23 | Moriarty_ | galexande: I already made a paper mockup to see how big it would be. |
| 19:17.24 | galexande | beats me, i never had that problem |
| 19:17.25 | dtx | could that cause problems? |
| 19:17.40 | galexande | heh mori i just compared the numbers to palmtops i've have known and loved |
| 19:17.41 | Moriarty_ | (waiting for an 02 unless the board swap option is available...) |
| 19:17.43 | ferric | galexande: lol @ cardboard cut-out |
| 19:18.01 | Moriarty_ | even guesstimated the screen size and drew a screen on it. :P |
| 19:18.08 | phrozen77 | lolol |
| 19:18.13 | galexande | draw a bsod on the screen :) |
| 19:18.36 | Moriarty_ | for those wondering, take a 2G ipod and add about an inch to the height. |
| 19:18.39 | Moriarty_ | that's the neo. |
| 19:18.46 | Moriarty_ | 'height' being the longest axis. |
| 19:19.13 | dtx | or take a ruler and.... |
| 19:19.15 | dtx | nevermind |
| 19:19.18 | dtx | :-P |
| 19:19.24 | jedix | what about thickness? |
| 19:19.31 | Moriarty_ | about the same, actually. |
| 19:19.34 | phrozen77 | <Moriarty_> (waiting for an 02 unless the board swap option is available...) <- will there be one? |
| 19:19.40 | Moriarty_ | I don't know. |
| 19:19.43 | Moriarty_ | that's why I'm waiting. |
| 19:19.50 | jedix | (please use measurements of number 2b pencils) |
| 19:19.54 | phrozen77 | meh, gonna sit it out too then :| |
| 19:20.02 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:20.08 | sixfeet | i hope to add a inch to whatever |
| 19:20.28 | sixfeet | my old phone sucks ... need my own neo |
| 19:20.28 | Moriarty_ | only real reason I'm waiting is a) I'm not really a mobile developer (though I would be happy to do user testing), and b) I can't justify buying two phones. |
| 19:21.04 | sixfeet | Moriarty_, nice point ;) |
| 19:21.21 | dtx | When it bombs out will make openmoko-devel-image pick up where it left off or start completely over again? |
| 19:21.40 | Moriarty_ | if you got halfway through, openmoko-devel-image should pick up where it left off. |
| 19:21.48 | dtx | awesome |
| 19:21.54 | Moriarty_ | if you do update setup openmoko-devel-image it'll pick up new stuff too. |
| 19:22.00 | Moriarty_ | (all hail make!) :P |
| 19:22.25 | dtx | ;-) |
| 19:22.38 | dtx | and bitbake |
| 19:22.48 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCCB0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:22.51 | Moriarty_ | yes, but make is the one that actually does the deps, I think. |
| 19:23.17 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 19:23.31 | dtx | I had to use it a lot when working on OpenZaurus stuff |
| 19:23.40 | dtx | fun times |
| 19:23.45 | Moriarty_ | i bet. |
| 19:23.47 | dtx | I actually kinda like it |
| 19:23.54 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 19:23.54 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in 5 days 16:36:05 (5.692ยฑ3.0 days) (1734;246) |
| 19:23.58 | daMaestro | !! |
| 19:24.15 | anrp | ? |
| 19:24.44 | dtx | I wish I would've realized that this bombed out on glibc before I went to lunch |
| 19:24.47 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFD56B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:24.54 | dtx | would have saved me a lot of time |
| 19:25.18 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 19:28.39 | phrozen77 | Moriarty_, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006108.html |
| 19:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko MISSLALYA (n=MISSLALY@mctnnbsa28w-142167123151.pppoe-dynamic.nb.aliant.net) |
| 19:29.19 | MISSLALYA | Hello |
| 19:30.51 | galexande | what a conversationalist |
| 19:30.54 | dtx | yeah |
| 19:31.00 | Moriarty_ | phrozen77: right, but I don't think it's been confirmed yet. |
| 19:31.01 | ferric | lol |
| 19:31.23 | ferric | you will not be able to hand upgrade the board, according to most sources. |
| 19:31.43 | galexande | i'm sure it's technically trivial, but distribution-wise it may be a nightmare |
| 19:31.46 | phrozen77 | why - technically, i'd think it'd be only a matter of swapping boards? |
| 19:31.48 | galexande | and they don't need more business management nightmares at openmoko |
| 19:32.00 | *** join/#openmoko paron_work (n=user@66.100.151.132) |
| 19:32.30 | phrozen77 | anyways, off to work - hf, bbl |
| 19:33.03 | *** part/#openmoko Moo1 (n=dgo@77.56.134.217) |
| 19:33.06 | Moriarty_ | well, then it's a painful six months of waiting for me. |
| 19:33.14 | Moriarty_ | and an emulator to soothe my pain. :P |
| 19:36.31 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedFire (n=SpeedFir@fedora/SpeedFire) |
| 19:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 19:43.39 | ferric | no, it's not techincally trivial - someone said earlier that it is fairly hard swapping the board out without breaking something |
| 19:43.42 | ferric | from a P0 neo |
| 19:44.04 | galexande | well, it might be hard the way laptop surgery is hard, but i know many successful laptop surgeons |
| 19:44.15 | ferric | chuckle |
| 19:44.17 | galexande | everything on the board looks like it has a detachable connector |
| 19:44.52 | galexande | and i'm just speculating from photos of prototypes :) |
| 19:45.58 | Moriarty_ | my only two wishes (quibbles, really) are EDGE support and a camera. |
| 19:46.07 | galexande | patience :) |
| 19:46.12 | Moriarty_ | I know. |
| 19:46.15 | SpeedEvil | Then rerouted the USB external connector to an internal USB hub. |
| 19:46.16 | Moriarty_ | and as I said, just quibbles. |
| 19:46.26 | SpeedEvil | then added a USB internal soundcard and wifi. |
| 19:46.35 | SpeedEvil | Fun :) |
| 19:46.36 | Moriarty_ | EDGE would be nice for mobile network in the absence of wifi. |
| 19:46.39 | galexande | wow speed, your laptop must have all sorts of spare room |
| 19:46.45 | galexande | i'm still scared to take apart my ibook |
| 19:46.49 | SpeedEvil | It's a Toshiba 3110CT. |
| 19:46.52 | SpeedEvil | 1.1Kg |
| 19:47.00 | Moriarty_ | and a camera of some kind would let me rig the phone to do fun things with UPC codes. :) |
| 19:47.03 | SpeedEvil | Battery life of 6-8 hours with upgraded cells. |
| 19:47.25 | SpeedEvil | Internal modem was huge - 5cm*6cm*0.5cm |
| 19:47.26 | galexande | google doesn't seem to know upc codes anymore, i am confused |
| 19:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_gpm (n=thomasg@p57AFD56B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:47.48 | jedix | think of tagging gift ideas |
| 19:47.51 | jedix | sweet. |
| 19:48.00 | galexande | camera could make a great UI for doom... |
| 19:48.01 | Moriarty_ | or figuring out which albums are RIAA-controlled in the store. :P |
| 19:48.19 | Moriarty_ | the accelerometers on the 02 gave me an idea for a game I might try to code up. |
| 19:48.54 | SpeedEvil | I use my camera very often. For taking pictures of price labels in shops, with the merchandise. |
| 19:48.56 | galexande | it'd be a great ui for some of the marble games |
| 19:48.58 | ScaredyCat | fvgbhnm |
| 19:49.01 | SpeedEvil | To do comparison shopping. |
| 19:49.05 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 19:49.33 | galexande | there needs to be a bluetooth heads-up-display for glasses |
| 19:49.35 | SpeedEvil | I've thought of that too. |
| 19:49.50 | galexande | and a bluetoothh mind-reading interface |
| 19:49.52 | ScaredyCat | damn my perfect eyesight |
| 19:49.52 | SpeedEvil | Marble games, multi-marbles into hole games, |
| 19:50.15 | SpeedEvil | Sliding block games |
| 19:50.23 | galexande | shaketris! |
| 19:50.39 | ScaredyCat | egg timer |
| 19:51.10 | galexande | the accelerometers excite me more than the wifi |
| 19:51.10 | SpeedEvil | Yo-yo simulator. |
| 19:51.10 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=Miranda@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 19:51.10 | SpeedEvil | galexande: fundamentally if they use the ones suggested, there is little benefit in two versus one. |
| 19:51.26 | SpeedEvil | They will be able to sense where taps on the case are. |
| 19:51.40 | dtx | Moriarty_: If you want to scan to see which albums are controlled by the RIAA, you can just make your app short circuit true |
| 19:51.57 | SpeedEvil | But not actual information on pitch or yaw. |
| 19:51.57 | dtx | Don't need a camera for that |
| 19:52.08 | Moriarty_ | heh |
| 19:52.14 | Moriarty_ | but not all labels are RIAA-affiliated. |
| 19:52.29 | SpeedEvil | Just take a list of the four that aren't :) |
| 19:52.33 | dtx | haha |
| 19:52.40 | Moriarty_ | which would those be? |
| 19:52.58 | SpeedEvil | (I do know there are probably >4) |
| 19:53.23 | dtx | Who knows, they aren't promoted by the fine folks over at the RIAA |
| 19:53.31 | dtx | :-P |
| 19:53.46 | dtx | So I'll never hear of 'em |
| 19:53.49 | Moriarty_ | heh. |
| 19:54.02 | Moriarty_ | this is what internet radio and amazon are for. :P |
| 19:54.33 | dtx | and ocremix |
| 19:55.00 | dtx | I wish mp3.com didn't go down the tubes |
| 19:55.44 | Moriarty_ | ditto. They had some awesome stuff. |
| 19:55.50 | dtx | yeah |
| 19:56.07 | Moriarty_ | including stuff by now-defunct bands that's otherwise impossible to find. |
| 19:56.16 | dtx | yea |
| 19:56.44 | dtx | I suppose a decent indy music site should be Kevin Rose's next project |
| 19:56.50 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A861B7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:57.36 | ScaredyCat | huh? |
| 19:57.48 | ScaredyCat | wtf has he got to do with indie music |
| 19:57.54 | dtx | nothing |
| 19:58.00 | dtx | he is just setting up websites left and right |
| 19:58.04 | *** part/#openmoko schurig_home (n=schurig@p54B2C388.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:58.09 | dtx | and he apparently is getting a lot of VC attention |
| 19:58.27 | ScaredyCat | yeah, it just means the VC's haven't learned anything |
| 19:58.38 | dtx | thank god |
| 19:59.07 | ScaredyCat | it's not really that much of a suprise... |
| 19:59.21 | dtx | yeah |
| 20:00.02 | Skwid1 | what's VC ? |
| 20:00.16 | zecke | Venture Capital? |
| 20:00.21 | ScaredyCat | venture cretin |
| 20:00.23 | dtx | venture capitalist |
| 20:00.25 | dtx | yea |
| 20:00.55 | galexande | more money than brains |
| 20:01.08 | Moriarty_ | galexande: looks like your hackish fix to openmoko-dialer works. |
| 20:01.13 | galexande | yay! |
| 20:01.21 | galexande | i knew it kinda worked, i just didn't know if i remembered it right :) |
| 20:01.28 | Moriarty_ | it's the Makefile in openmoko-dialer/src, to be specific. |
| 20:01.38 | alphaone | hackish? Fix? |
| 20:01.40 | galexande | the real fix is to fix Makefile.in or Makefile.am to use the host platform instead of the target one for these things |
| 20:01.47 | Moriarty_ | right. |
| 20:01.54 | Moriarty_ | I think it's Makefile.am. |
| 20:02.05 | Moriarty_ | I just need to figure out what needs to be done to test. |
| 20:02.06 | galexande | alpha, openmoko-dialer uses GLIB_BIN or DBUS_GLIB_BIN of build/tmp/staging/arm-linux/lib/../bin when it should use staging/i686-linux/... |
| 20:02.15 | galexande | mori, you can build a qemu image :) |
| 20:02.18 | Moriarty_ | (but first, let's get this thing built!) |
| 20:02.23 | Moriarty_ | that's what I'm doing actually. |
| 20:02.29 | Skwid1 | ah ok |
| 20:02.42 | Moriarty_ | I just need to figure out how to modify the build env without MokoMakefile blowing away my changes. |
| 20:02.49 | alphaone | galexande: ah, okay.. |
| 20:03.05 | galexande | yeah mori that's the big mystery for me too. you may have to follow the procedure for making a patch, it is in the wiki for mokomakefile |
| 20:03.24 | Moriarty_ | that would be fine. |
| 20:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 20:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko Heathen (i=powj@adsl-75-49-19-195.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:05.45 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 20:07.17 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid1 (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (i=friedrij@c-76-25-29-162.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:12.47 | *** join/#openmoko _fletch (n=fletch@doener.lieferservice.cc) |
| 20:13.00 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 20:13.05 | Jason1 | Hello everyone! Been away for the day. Has anyone figured out why Harald is so frustrated? http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/linux/openmoko/ |
| 20:13.17 | anrp | we have speculated! |
| 20:13.21 | Jason1 | :) |
| 20:13.23 | anrp | ...but no, no idea |
| 20:13.29 | anrp | besides overwork |
| 20:13.50 | Jason1 | hopefully thats all it is. |
| 20:14.14 | Jason1 | Its good to see that hte community list is working again |
| 20:14.15 | ruimoreira | does anyone know if is there a OpenMoko/AddressBook->Ldap AddressBook |
| 20:14.28 | ruimoreira | connector .... |
| 20:15.21 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD795.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:16.31 | *** join/#openmoko _MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-24-9-36-4.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:17.05 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-95-77.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 20:18.41 | ruimoreira | btw what disto do you people use to develop stuff for Openmoko ? |
| 20:19.49 | ScaredyCat | shouldn't matter |
| 20:20.09 | ScaredyCat | i use suse, some use debian, redhat ubuntu |
| 20:20.42 | ruimoreira | ScaredyCat: i'm using fedora 7 .... |
| 20:21.36 | ruimoreira | having a few issues building |
| 20:21.43 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (i=friedrij@c-76-25-29-162.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:22.08 | ScaredyCat | installed all the deps ? |
| 20:22.28 | ruimoreira | yeap |
| 20:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 20:23.28 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback__ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 20:24.26 | *** join/#openmoko twt (i=twt@nat/google/x-7f6469d9293c6044) |
| 20:25.20 | galexande | ruimor, what package is failing? |
| 20:25.25 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:26.18 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-139.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:26.19 | *** join/#openmoko cbalan (n=cbalan@85.204.211.10) |
| 20:26.47 | ruimoreira | galexande: 1 sec plz .... |
| 20:27.26 | possan | after rebuilding everything for like 10h i still end up with the same problem of not seeing my changes in the rootfs. damn. |
| 20:27.50 | ewanm89_laptop | How can I get mokomakefile to build vim into the image? (It's already available in openembedded tree) |
| 20:27.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p54952E20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:28.06 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@77.47.0.11.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 20:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s[WORK]_ (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 20:29.30 | ruimoreira | galexande: this will take a wile ... trying to compile as we speak .... |
| 20:30.24 | aevin | what's the approximate boot-up time on the actual hardware atm? |
| 20:30.36 | galexande | aevin, i've heard two minutes, it is not streamlined at all. |
| 20:30.52 | *** join/#openmoko Sum1 (n=Sum1@80.175.142.81) |
| 20:31.34 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, that's something that will definately needs to work on. |
| 20:31.44 | galexande | ewan, volunteering? |
| 20:31.48 | ewanm89_laptop | w/\ will// |
| 20:31.49 | aevin | okay, thanks. i was afraid it was a lot worse than 2 mins. |
| 20:32.20 | aevin | s/w/s/ ;-) |
| 20:32.22 | ewanm89_laptop | galexande: I wouldn't mind, but I would like myprevious question answered first. |
| 20:33.06 | ewanm89_laptop | s/my/my\ / |
| 20:33.38 | ewanm89_laptop | apt doesn't know about escaping? |
| 20:33.50 | aevin | seems like it doesn't want it. |
| 20:36.28 | *** join/#openmoko dt1 (n=dtx@cdf-imaging.com) |
| 20:37.24 | galexande | well, ewan, i think your first step will be to go into moko/build and run ". ../setup-env; bitbake vim" |
| 20:37.34 | galexande | as i understand it, that will build vim-blah.ipk somewhere |
| 20:38.32 | galexande | and the rootfs seems to be built in build/tmp/rootfs, and i don't know how you tell what goes in there... but you could just pput the ipk file in the rootfs, and do whatever it takes to rebuild the qemu image from the rootfs, and then you can use ipkg install vim-bblah.ipk to install it. |
| 20:39.14 | dt1 | or you can put the ipk on a SD card |
| 20:39.21 | Elrond | Can't you mount another thing inside qemu? Like the sd card? |
| 20:39.31 | dt1 | I believe so |
| 20:39.52 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, if SD card reader worked ;) |
| 20:40.03 | ewanm89_laptop | USB memory stick? |
| 20:40.17 | anrp | doesn't it? i vaguely recall sd/mmc being implemented in om's qemu |
| 20:40.25 | Elrond | I don't know, if qemu emulates an usb memory stick. |
| 20:40.46 | dtx | I thought a read just today about it supporting SD in qemu |
| 20:40.54 | dtx | mainline and OpenMoko |
| 20:41.04 | ewanm89_laptop | But it would probably see it as another mass storage device. |
| 20:41.28 | ewanm89_laptop | Any way, it's Tuesdays qemu build. |
| 20:42.20 | *** join/#openmoko arcanericky (n=rpike1@ppp-70-245-132-248.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 20:43.21 | dtx | SD card Works This part is already in mainline QEMU. Use the "-sd cardimagegoeshere" switch to point QEMU to the card image. The regular QEMU monitor commands for removable media can also be used. The card works, however the on-chip host controller gave block length errors on heavy I/O despite working as described in specification. I suspect the kernel driver. DMA operation is not tested. |
| 20:43.23 | ewanm89_laptop | Is default to run openmoko as root? |
| 20:44.10 | Elrond | ewanm89_laptop - Yes. :-| |
| 20:44.16 | ruimoreira | why ? |
| 20:44.27 | ruimoreira | btw.... |
| 20:44.29 | ruimoreira | :P |
| 20:45.11 | ewanm89_laptop | Elrond: Wouldn't password less sudo be better? |
| 20:45.33 | dtx | I don't know, but it would be cool if OpenMoko would run web browser/e-mail sudo some jailed user |
| 20:46.37 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Can you post your default software-question answer? |
| 20:47.17 | SpeedEvil | The answer to almost all software questions is 'no'. There is very little working software - the dialer just about works. |
| 20:47.48 | ewanm89_laptop | dtx: I was thinking off doing it the other way around, only use root in package manager, or when chosen on the terminal? |
| 20:47.54 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-109-6.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 20:48.04 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Thanks. :-) May I copy it? |
| 20:48.35 | ewanm89_laptop | Add to a bot? |
| 20:48.35 | SpeedEvil | sURE |
| 20:48.35 | SpeedEvil | Sure |
| 20:48.35 | Elrond | ewanm89_laptop - See SpeedEvil's standard answer. In your case: because nobody did the job. |
| 20:48.54 | ewanm89_laptop | Elrond: So it would be a good idea to me to do? |
| 20:49.02 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: In some cases, you don't even want the user to have access to root. |
| 20:49.15 | Elrond | ewanm89_laptop - If you want to care, yes. |
| 20:49.40 | SpeedEvil | Consider giving a phone to an employee - you may not want them to install stuff. |
| 20:50.19 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: Well, I was thinking that, but it would be needed for package management, isn't it supposed to be a freed phone? |
| 20:50.29 | SpeedEvil | Owner!=user |
| 20:50.44 | ewanm89_laptop | Ok, so maybe a hook for the employer. |
| 20:50.56 | SpeedEvil | Take as an extreme example someone that picks up the phone after you walk away from it for 30s. |
| 20:50.57 | cjb | SpeedEvil: owner != user is a nice idea, but the opposite philosophy to the openmoko. |
| 20:51.00 | *** join/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@131.151.32.58) |
| 20:51.12 | cjb | well. I guess I don't even think it's a nice idea. |
| 20:51.45 | dtx | Owner == Owner, meaning they want full control over it |
| 20:51.46 | SpeedEvil | I want the ability to lock a phone I buy down so hard it can't even be reflashed with the JTAG. |
| 20:51.50 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: Ok, so we use a passworded user, and full sudo? |
| 20:52.03 | cjb | SpeedEvil: obviously not possible with the moko. |
| 20:52.16 | cjb | well, you can do various things with epoxy and so on. |
| 20:52.17 | SpeedEvil | Owner gets full access to everything. If they give it to a user, they may not give all rights over. |
| 20:52.29 | cjb | but I just think it's weird to talk about them here |
| 20:52.43 | cjb | you have an entire market of unfreed phones to lock down. go play with those. :) |
| 20:52.49 | dtx | But its the owner's freedom |
| 20:53.00 | ewanm89_laptop | Soldering iron plus epoxy works very well. |
| 20:53.11 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - consider your desktop. You buy it, you can put a password on it, ... |
| 20:53.12 | dtx | The user could just go buy their own phone if they wanted |
| 20:53.16 | anrp | blowtorch! |
| 20:53.27 | SpeedEvil | Or your employer buys it, and they can lock it down. |
| 20:53.29 | anrp | nothing stands up to the mighty oxyacetylene |
| 20:53.37 | cjb | SpeedEvil: .. and if someone else is sitting at it, they can boot it init=/bin/sh. |
| 20:53.53 | SpeedEvil | cjb: not with adequately secured boot loader. |
| 20:54.01 | dtx | can you not passwd protect u-boot? |
| 20:54.09 | SpeedEvil | Even lilo can take a password before it'll let you do that |
| 20:54.26 | SpeedEvil | dtx: that's one of the things I'm thinking of trying to add. |
| 20:54.40 | dtx | I agree, I'd like to lock mine down when I get it |
| 20:54.45 | *** join/#openmoko soccerpirate4 (i=8f450331@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-78c0c0e4c82edbaa) |
| 20:54.55 | ewanm89_laptop | I'll try and get user accounts plus sudo done then? |
| 20:55.05 | dtx | :-) |
| 20:55.10 | cjb | SpeedEvil: .. ok, change "do init=/bin/sh" to "replace the hard drive with their own, then use it/mount my data". |
| 20:55.22 | SpeedEvil | That's what case locks are for. |
| 20:55.38 | dtx | haha |
| 20:55.40 | cjb | and does anyone any of us knows use all of these things? :) |
| 20:55.56 | SpeedEvil | Personally, as an experiment. |
| 20:55.58 | dtx | I use physical security, anybody messes with my computer I kick their ass |
| 20:56.10 | ewanm89_laptop | cjb: And HD encryption if you don't mind the phone being so slow it crawls and the battery only lasts ten minutes. |
| 20:56.12 | dtx | But thats just a personal policy |
| 20:56.14 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=orzo@70.89.88.195) |
| 20:56.20 | SpeedEvil | I've on this lappy got swap to AES setup, as well as encrypted suspend-disk. |
| 20:56.20 | Elrond | Well... I don't like thinking about it... but yes, in my former company we applied a case lock on one computer... for one specific employe. |
| 20:56.46 | orzo | why for just him? |
| 20:56.51 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: Where do you place the for wake-up? |
| 20:57.03 | dtx | Well, for security purposes it is necessary to physically lock down some computers |
| 20:57.03 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: - key - |
| 20:57.25 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: basically. On boot. Encrypt swapfile with a random key. |
| 20:57.39 | Elrond | orzo - He used to mess with the hardware.... and then call the admins "Heck, my cdrom does not work any more". The admins finally found out, that he exchanged the cdrom drive. |
| 20:57.55 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: then take that random key, and hash it with my passphrase, and store that on suspend. |
| 20:58.11 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: yes, but where do you store it? |
| 20:58.25 | ScaredyCat | usbkey |
| 20:58.37 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: configure loop device with hashed passphrase and stored (disk) key. |
| 20:58.55 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: then tell resume to resume from that device |
| 20:58.59 | orzo | clever |
| 20:59.03 | orzo | how come he wasnt fired? |
| 20:59.13 | orzo | he must have stole the other cdrom drive |
| 20:59.22 | dtx | Hell, just put a TPM chip in there :-P |
| 20:59.27 | dtx | j/k |
| 20:59.28 | Elrond | orzo - He did not steal it. Or at least I don't know. |
| 20:59.36 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: loop-aes or dm-crypt? |
| 20:59.43 | Elrond | orzo - And there are people you can't fire ;o) |
| 20:59.55 | SpeedEvil | cryptoloop |
| 21:00.03 | Kensan | dtx: I played around with putting symmetric keys on smartcards. |
| 21:00.09 | SpeedEvil | the weaknesses don't really apply. |
| 21:00.17 | Kensan | dtx: allows you to do crypt the entire disk. |
| 21:00.35 | orzo | what's the news on the phones? |
| 21:00.42 | orzo | still no confirmation email |
| 21:00.52 | orzo | are they in the US? |
| 21:00.57 | SpeedEvil | orzo: No. |
| 21:00.59 | SpeedEvil | orzo |
| 21:01.20 | orzo | i thought they were already being shipped there |
| 21:01.28 | SpeedEvil | They are. |
| 21:01.35 | SpeedEvil | But no notes that they've arrived. |
| 21:01.36 | orzo | i thought they were going by plane |
| 21:01.43 | SpeedEvil | It's not impossible they are there. |
| 21:01.50 | dtx | How do you boot with a completely crypted HD? |
| 21:02.00 | dtx | Boot sector uncrypted I suppose |
| 21:02.01 | dtx | :-P |
| 21:02.14 | SpeedEvil | dtx: hardware encryptors and keys |
| 21:02.39 | dtx | ah |
| 21:02.47 | Kensan | dtx: during bootup you enter your passphrase -> cryptoroot gets mounted -> "normal" bootup |
| 21:03.00 | dtx | oh that would be a bitch, IMO |
| 21:03.07 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: you don't need hardware crypto |
| 21:03.12 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: that does give you virtualisation problems though. |
| 21:03.16 | gdiebel | SpeedEvil: seems like a lot of effort just to protect your porn |
| 21:03.18 | ScaredyCat | with no input ability |
| 21:03.24 | dtx | Get lots of late night calls "The server is down what's the password to bring it back up?" |
| 21:03.39 | dtx | Followed by the oblig. "Hold on I'll be there in a minute" |
| 21:04.05 | Kensan | dtx: Debian Etch let's you setup an entirely crypted install through the installer. Very comfortably, no headache at all. |
| 21:04.26 | SpeedEvil | dtx: in principle - you can do that nicely. For example, you have 12 people with keys. You need 4 of them to be there to supply the key. |
| 21:04.28 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: what problems do you mean? |
| 21:04.49 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: I boot your image in vmware, and let you enter the password to it. |
| 21:05.08 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: that's why you want smartcards. |
| 21:05.21 | SpeedEvil | Smartcards don't solve that problem. |
| 21:05.36 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: they do. All crypto-operations are done on the smartcard- |
| 21:05.40 | dtx | haha, that's not so nice for me I am 1/2 people that know anything at all about computers |
| 21:05.43 | SpeedEvil | Only hardware encryption properly done partially solves it. |
| 21:06.31 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: yes, all the crypto operations are done on the smartcard. Which doesn't help you if Bob has put your booting image in VMware, and that's talking to the smartcard, and logging keys. |
| 21:06.34 | SpeedEvil | keystrokes |
| 21:06.53 | dtx | How about a chip that stores a key, that gets wiped when the case is opened |
| 21:06.53 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: obviously you want Level3 SC-Readers with a pinpad. |
| 21:06.56 | dtx | Problem solved |
| 21:07.06 | SpeedEvil | Physical security ++ |
| 21:07.29 | anrp | we could also take the approach that it's just a phone, there's no souper seekrit data on it |
| 21:07.32 | anrp | ;/ |
| 21:07.33 | dtx | Yeah, just hope the hardware never gets messed up and you need to recover data |
| 21:07.43 | SpeedEvil | That's what backups are for. |
| 21:07.47 | dtx | true |
| 21:08.11 | dtx | Which is where people would probably steal the data from anyways. Your backups in the coat closet |
| 21:08.11 | dtx | haha |
| 21:08.21 | SpeedEvil | Encrypted backups. |
| 21:08.48 | SpeedEvil | With actual physical security for the unencrypted key. |
| 21:08.49 | dtx | and your SmartCard from your cold dead fingers :-P |
| 21:09.01 | ewanm89_laptop | night guys |
| 21:09.05 | SpeedEvil | Iris recognition. |
| 21:09.11 | dtx | and your eyeball |
| 21:09.13 | dtx | :-P |
| 21:09.17 | SpeedEvil | You can detect the pulse in the iris, so it's quite hard to fake. |
| 21:09.32 | ScaredyCat | use the 3d acc for your password... |
| 21:09.41 | ScaredyCat | shake a rythmn passwords |
| 21:10.08 | dtx | My password would be dropping the unit |
| 21:10.11 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 21:10.27 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D84BD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:10.37 | dtx | 0g for 1 second |
| 21:11.12 | dtx | net 0g |
| 21:12.10 | *** join/#openmoko _MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-24-9-36-4.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:13.16 | dtx | SpeedEvil: I would hate to have to be one of the backup admins at your place ;-) |
| 21:13.30 | SpeedEvil | dtx: I don't do this professionally. |
| 21:13.37 | dtx | Well, ok then |
| 21:13.40 | SpeedEvil | I was just talking theory. |
| 21:13.43 | dtx | Just paranoid |
| 21:13.45 | dtx | hehe |
| 21:13.53 | ScaredyCat | 31,000 tonnes - live earth carbon footprint. |
| 21:13.55 | SpeedEvil | It is theoretically possible to address pretty much all cases. |
| 21:13.56 | dtx | What do you do? |
| 21:13.58 | SpeedEvil | It is messy. |
| 21:14.22 | SpeedEvil | ATM I'm not working. Health problems. I've got unreliable health - precluding 9-5 |
| 21:14.22 | dtx | Once you address all the cases you make it very hard to do practical things like recover from disasters while in Mexico or something |
| 21:14.44 | SpeedEvil | You have to write that into the security protocols. |
| 21:14.57 | SpeedEvil | Disaster recovery seperate from crypto is not practical. |
| 21:15.40 | dtx | Right, but disaster recovery with crypto is not too fun |
| 21:15.56 | dtx | And requires lots of training of personel |
| 21:16.12 | dtx | I just prefer physical security |
| 21:16.19 | Elrond | Right. |
| 21:16.25 | dtx | But crypto would be good for a loop-back home partition on these phones |
| 21:16.47 | Kensan | dtx: You can't say just because it's locked away in a safe place you don't have to worry about anything else. That would be quite foolish... |
| 21:16.50 | dtx | But that can always be setup later |
| 21:16.59 | Elrond | Getting crypto/security right is soo heavy. |
| 21:17.18 | Elrond | I still remember this cool department nearby, where I did admin. |
| 21:17.40 | SpeedEvil | Crypto can't meaningfully be done without hardware security. |
| 21:17.46 | Elrond | They moved "my" linux boxes into their own DMZ (subnet), befause "ssh into the private high security network" was not acceptable. |
| 21:17.52 | Elrond | Guess what they do now? |
| 21:18.01 | SpeedEvil | telnet? |
| 21:18.10 | Elrond | Right... vpn for people. Everybody gets the same user/password. |
| 21:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (i=friedrij@c-76-25-29-162.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 21:18.21 | dtx | hahaha |
| 21:18.36 | dtx | jeez |
| 21:18.44 | dtx | I don't setup VPN on anything I can't lock down |
| 21:18.52 | SpeedEvil | Doing it right is hard. And it will pervade everything in the company. |
| 21:18.57 | SpeedEvil | And add cost. |
| 21:19.07 | dtx | Lots of cost |
| 21:19.17 | SpeedEvil | On the other hand - what's the cost of losing data, or having it stolen, or ... |
| 21:19.24 | dtx | To the point where it might just be better to get a damn good lock and more insurance ;-) |
| 21:20.22 | Elrond | Oh right... they use crypted harddisks in the laptops. ;-) |
| 21:20.38 | Elrond | Ohh... vpn is of course by definition secure. :-) |
| 21:20.52 | Kensan | Elrond: and the CEO's won't give up their Blackberrys ;) |
| 21:21.37 | Elrond | Kensan - Heh, the other department has berries, yes. But of course for security they have their own enterprise server. ;o) |
| 21:23.15 | Kensan | It's a good thing that Laforge is very knowledgable in this area. He has a background in security. |
| 21:23.18 | pjz | doing vpn right isn't that hard. OpenVPN works quite well. |
| 21:23.52 | Elrond | pjz - Yeah. (except I still don't like openssl/x509... but that's another story) |
| 21:24.01 | Elrond | pjz - tinc is also quite okay. |
| 21:24.16 | pjz | openvpn runs quite well on openwrt boxes |
| 21:24.36 | Elrond | Ahh. :-) |
| 21:24.49 | Elrond | Well $they have a cool l33t cisco pix. ;o) |
| 21:25.09 | pjz | enh, you just have tomake the pix port-forward to a real machine :) |
| 21:25.56 | pjz | one company I worked for, I handed out a couple of pre-set-up openwrt boxes that were openvpn clients so people coupld pulg them in in their house and then plug their voip phone in and have an office extension at home :) |
| 21:25.57 | Elrond | pjz - Well, anything, that is not on the pix is per default insecure. Only the pix is secure. ;-) |
| 21:26.14 | dtx | pjz that is a good idea |
| 21:26.17 | pjz | Elrond: laughable statement if you've read cisco's security advisories :) |
| 21:26.32 | Elrond | pjz - Don't tell that to me :-) |
| 21:26.49 | pjz | Elrond: let's just say you need to make sure your firmware's up to date |
| 21:26.50 | thomasg_gpm | hm, either the neo nor the openmoko-vkeyboard has cursor-keys - so how is it possible to navigate in a terminal? |
| 21:26.56 | dtx | true |
| 21:27.08 | Elrond | pjz - I don't think they updated in the last year. |
| 21:27.10 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: terminals didn't ahve cursor keys for years. I'm confused. |
| 21:27.19 | dtx | vim |
| 21:27.25 | dtx | hjkl |
| 21:27.32 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - There's matchbox-keyboard also. |
| 21:27.35 | thomasg_gpm | pjz, well, if you want to go 10 chars backward in a terminal, how can you do this? |
| 21:27.48 | pjz | Elrond: sure, but it doesn't matter when they updated, what matters is when your hardware provier got your pix in from cisco, and how long it sat on the shelf :) |
| 21:27.57 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - Put the stylus longer on the "show keyboard"-icon, then select the second "keyboard". |
| 21:28.08 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: depends on your shell. |
| 21:28.31 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: try ^B ten times |
| 21:28.36 | thomasg_gpm | Elrond, the matchbox-keyboad I know also doesn't have cursor keys |
| 21:28.48 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - Huh... it should... |
| 21:28.50 | Elrond | lemme check. |
| 21:28.56 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: or try ESC followed by 'h' ten times |
| 21:28.58 | *** join/#openmoko dantalizing (n=dan@wsip-70-184-147-28.ga.at.cox.net) |
| 21:29.00 | thomasg_gpm | http://matchbox-project.org/media/matchbox-keyboard.png |
| 21:29.58 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - The things at the bottom right are cursor keys. |
| 21:30.16 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: emacs bindings are: ^B/^F for left and right ('back and forward') and ^P/^N for up and down ('previous and next') |
| 21:30.23 | thomasg_gpm | pjz, you don't understand it seems. I mean, if you write in a terminal: 'echo "foo fou foo foo"' and you want to correct the "u" without writing the whole thing new - how can you do that? |
| 21:30.39 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: press ^B a few times. |
| 21:30.48 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - He understands. Most shells support Ctrl-B for cursor left. |
| 21:30.52 | thomasg_gpm | Elrond, no, this are < > signs |
| 21:30.54 | ScaredyCat | bt keyboard |
| 21:31.16 | thomasg_gpm | pjz, ah, ok, that works |
| 21:31.28 | thomasg_gpm | thanks :) |
| 21:31.36 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 21:31.57 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - You sure? My neos matchbox-keyboard is too tiny for me to be able to use it. :-| |
| 21:31.57 | thomasg_gpm | hehe :) |
| 21:31.58 | ruimoreira | galexande stil there ยป |
| 21:31.58 | ruimoreira | ? |
| 21:31.58 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: you're welcome :) most shells use emacs keybindings, so they're useful to know |
| 21:31.59 | anrp | someone say emacs? |
| 21:32.35 | pjz | anrp: yeah, emacs is a nice operating system :) |
| 21:32.40 | ScaredyCat | vt bindings surely |
| 21:32.41 | thomasg_gpm | pjz, I wish terminals would be mouse(stylus)-ready |
| 21:33.11 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - xterm has mouse stuff. w3m uses it for example. |
| 21:33.30 | dtx | so who is gonna implement graffitti writing using the accelerometers on this thing? |
| 21:33.36 | thomasg_gpm | Elrond, but you cant navigate using the mouse in a termina, can you? |
| 21:33.48 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - in w3m: Yes. |
| 21:33.52 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: nah, I hate the dang things. Keep your hands on the keyboard. |
| 21:34.06 | thomasg_gpm | pjz, well, unfortunately the neo has no keyboard :) |
| 21:34.11 | thomasg_gpm | Elrond, w3m is ncurses? |
| 21:34.15 | pjz | ScaredyCat: nah, they're emacs bindings; they can be changed to other things in other shells |
| 21:34.33 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: mine does :) I picked up a bt keyboard to use with it :) |
| 21:34.40 | thomasg_gpm | ^^ |
| 21:34.53 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - Yes. |
| 21:34.57 | pjz | thomasg_gpm: actually right now I'm using it with my Nokia 6620 |
| 21:35.01 | thomasg_gpm | the neo is big enough, a additional external keyboard isn't usable for me :) |
| 21:35.24 | pjz | it's a foldout one, so yeah, have to sit at a table or something to use it really |
| 21:35.30 | Jason1 | plz: what BT keyboard do you have? |
| 21:35.32 | thomasg_gpm | I've some nokias, including a 7710 touchscreen-only. but it has a navigation (cursor) key |
| 21:36.19 | thomasg_gpm | I wish the neo would have one, too |
| 21:36.29 | anrp | you use the nokia as a keyboard? |
| 21:36.36 | anrp | now that's a weak role |
| 21:36.39 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - cursors on the neo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#D-Pad_and_Buttons ;o)) |
| 21:36.53 | pjz | Jason1: the iGo Stowaway |
| 21:37.00 | anrp | neo uses other phones as accessories |
| 21:37.02 | anrp | ;/ |
| 21:37.18 | thomasg_gpm | well, I do not want the neo as gameboy -.- but no-multitouch and no keys isn't really the optimum |
| 21:37.25 | Elrond | anrp - hehe... pavel already uses his zaurus as BT keyboard. ;o) |
| 21:37.42 | dtx | Zaurus has BT? |
| 21:37.46 | anrp | well the zaurus has a good keyboard |
| 21:37.56 | anrp | 5600 ok, c* much nicer |
| 21:38.02 | paron_work | cry |
| 21:38.06 | paron_work | I miss my zaurus |
| 21:38.09 | pjz | Jason1: the ultraslim one |
| 21:38.13 | anrp | miss? you can still get em D: |
| 21:38.22 | dtx | I got 4 c1000's never noticed if they had bluetooth |
| 21:38.25 | paron_work | but they're too expensive, now that I just put down 300 dollars on a phone |
| 21:38.27 | anrp | they don't |
| 21:38.31 | anrp | they have a cf slot though |
| 21:38.33 | paron_work | I only had one of the crappy american 5500s |
| 21:38.34 | dtx | yeah |
| 21:38.38 | dtx | and USB Host |
| 21:38.39 | dtx | powered |
| 21:38.57 | dtx | which was the only reason I got it |
| 21:38.59 | paron_work | although pebble keyboard > touchscreen |
| 21:39.07 | dtx | yeah |
| 21:39.23 | Elrond | Hmm, I don't know, how pavel uses BT on it. |
| 21:39.30 | dtx | I could play doom on c1000 |
| 21:39.37 | dtx | very nice |
| 21:39.42 | Jason1 | pjz: wow they are proud of those things! |
| 21:39.59 | Jason1 | http://www.igo.com/product.asp?sku=2524884 |
| 21:40.04 | happycube | elrond - cf bluetooth |
| 21:41.02 | Elrond | Hmmm. How hard would it be to turn the neo into a usb-"headset"? |
| 21:41.13 | SpeedEvil | Trivial AIUI. |
| 21:41.15 | SpeedEvil | SMOP. |
| 21:41.52 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - usb, not bt. ;-) |
| 21:42.21 | happycube | you would have to have a usb audio gadget driver that hooks into the sound driver |
| 21:42.24 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 21:42.41 | happycube | no reason that couldn't be done but it might need a user space daemon to get to the audio |
| 21:42.41 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I don't think that's been done. |
| 21:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@200-193-152-9.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 21:43.17 | thomasg_gpm | why the hell openmoko needs psyco? |
| 21:43.24 | *** join/#openmoko arbitrarystring (n=Arbitrar@c-69-136-162-34.hsd1.in.comcast.net) |
| 21:43.30 | happycube | huh? pysco = x86 only |
| 21:43.33 | happycube | psyco |
| 21:43.37 | thomasg_gpm | yeah <- amd64 |
| 21:43.50 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - It doesn't need it. |
| 21:43.52 | thomasg_gpm | won't build here :( |
| 21:43.56 | thomasg_gpm | Elrond, ah, k |
| 21:44.13 | happycube | would be nice to have zippy python on the openmoko but i think psyco's considered a dead end anyhow |
| 21:44.31 | Elrond | happycube - I have normal python on my neo. :-) |
| 21:44.32 | happycube | pypy+jit (when mature) on arm... that'd be the ticket |
| 21:44.37 | happycube | :) |
| 21:45.11 | Elrond | Quite nice :-) |
| 21:47.48 | codyl|sleep | Elrond, pygtk+ ? |
| 21:49.20 | Elrond | codyl|sleep - Yes, pygtk. |
| 21:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko guest (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 21:53.20 | codyl|sleep | Elrong, nice..maybe my apps will work |
| 21:53.39 | codyl|sleep | Elrond, openmokoui isnt complete enough to wrap yet.. |
| 21:53.50 | codyl|sleep | how are the startup times ? |
| 21:54.35 | Elrond | You mean python startup times? |
| 21:54.52 | Elrond | reasonable. I don't really notice them in the console noise of my python apps. |
| 21:55.01 | Elrond | Not to mention I often run them via "ssh -X". |
| 21:55.37 | *** part/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:55.48 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 21:56.59 | dtx | l8r |
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| 22:10.56 | Kensan | Elrond: what kind of BT-Adapter does Pavel use with his Zaurus? |
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| 22:20.19 | Elrond | Kensan - I have no idea. |
| 22:22.24 | Kero | ha, I try to look at that DUtch website mentioned in community ML... |
| 22:22.28 | Kero | "The bandwidth limit for this site has been exceeded." |
| 22:22.44 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:22.57 | Kero | nm |
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| 22:23.21 | Stephmw | howdy |
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| 22:27.38 | Jason1 | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:37.47 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 22:39.57 | jseghers | Question: most of the time when I build and run QEMU, there's a blank white rectangle next to the Main Menu dropdown and if I click there I get the on-screen keyboard. Sometimes though, that rectangle isn't there and the keyboard appears to be inaccessible. Any idea why this happens? How do I invoke the keyboard when it does? |
| 22:43.24 | CM | jseghers: Don't know what's up with that. I've always had that white square there. |
| 22:43.55 | gcb77 | I've seen that happen too a few times |
| 22:44.02 | gcb77 | I just shut down and start up again |
| 22:44.15 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@corp-241.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 22:44.20 | Skwid_ | hum, im going to be in the plane for quite a while on sunday |
| 22:44.38 | Skwid_ | any way to get a cache from openmoko's mediawiki so I can do some reading ? |
| 22:45.31 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 22:45.33 | SpeedEvil | Got wget? |
| 22:46.00 | Stephmw | if you do use wget, please throttle it to be nice ;-) |
| 22:46.20 | SpeedEvil | And start it from special:all-pages |
| 22:46.26 | SpeedEvil | with a limit of 1 |
| 22:46.34 | SpeedEvil | You do not want to follow all the edit links |
| 22:46.49 | SpeedEvil | The whole wiki is still quite small. |
| 22:47.03 | Skwid_ | yeah that's what i thought |
| 22:47.10 | Skwid_ | and how do I not kill the server ? :P |
| 22:47.19 | SpeedEvil | Just set it to 1K/second |
| 22:47.29 | jseghers | gcb77: I'd seen rebooting work too... that's what I initially did... it fooled me--failed twice in a row... third time it's there. |
| 22:47.48 | *** join/#openmoko procto (n=procto@groucho.unet.brandeis.edu) |
| 22:47.55 | Skwid_ | ok, im gonna have to read wget man's :) |
| 22:48.26 | SpeedEvil | wget -k --limit-rate=1k -r -l 1 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:AllPages |
| 22:48.30 | SpeedEvil | or something |
| 22:48.49 | SpeedEvil | -k rewrites links on saving |
| 22:48.56 | SpeedEvil | So they work locally |
| 22:49.42 | SpeedEvil | Also if you've not read the mailing lists, getting them may be reasonable. |
| 22:50.03 | Skwid_ | SpeedEvil: the flight is not that long :p |
| 22:50.38 | SpeedEvil | Take a ship, and the source code :) |
| 22:50.52 | Skwid_ | haha |
| 22:53.43 | *** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 22:55.24 | *** join/#openmoko Toba (n=eastein@pysoy/developer/EricStein) |
| 22:55.56 | Skwid_ | SpeedEvil: i'm gonna grab everything with the level 1, because i start on allpages right ? |
| 22:56.03 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 22:56.20 | SpeedEvil | Go to level 2, and you run into nasty issues like it following all the histories. |
| 22:57.58 | Skwid_ | yeah ok |
| 22:58.00 | Skwid_ | hum, problem |
| 22:58.12 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ottawa-hs-206-191-39-233.d-ip.magma.ca) |
| 22:58.49 | *** join/#openmoko dirakx (n=dirakx@190.66.90.131) |
| 22:58.54 | Skwid_ | Cannot write to `wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Allpages' (Invalid argument). |
| 22:59.09 | Skwid_ | wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Allpages: No such file or directory |
| 22:59.10 | Skwid_ | Converting wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Allpages... nothing to do. |
| 22:59.22 | SpeedEvil | That was a guess |
| 22:59.26 | SpeedEvil | I forget the exact URL |
| 22:59.31 | Skwid_ | that's it |
| 22:59.35 | Skwid_ | i went and checked :( |
| 23:00.13 | *** join/#openmoko NeoStrider (n=daniel@cm-tvcidade-nri-C8B1D61B.dynamic.brdterra.com.br) |
| 23:00.15 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 23:00.46 | SpeedEvil | Seems to work for me. |
| 23:00.58 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko Heathen (i=powj@adsl-75-49-19-195.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:02.10 | Skwid_ | nope, same error :( |
| 23:02.52 | *** join/#openmoko _Heathen_ (i=powj@adsl-75-49-19-195.dsl.wotnoh.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:03.15 | Skwid_ | maybe it's permissions problems locally |
| 23:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0B5F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:04.34 | Skwid_ | hum yeah, it works now |
| 23:04.39 | Skwid_ | thanks :) |
| 23:04.42 | NeoStrider | hey |
| 23:04.46 | SpeedEvil | Oh - read it. It's the error page |
| 23:04.49 | NeoStrider | ive got a important question |
| 23:04.57 | NeoStrider | does the neo works without SIM? |
| 23:05.12 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:05.34 | SpeedEvil | Oh - no it's not, /me typoed |
| 23:05.38 | SpeedEvil | NeoStrider: yes |
| 23:05.42 | alphaone | NeoStrider: Yeah, gsm modem is just a small part |
| 23:05.48 | SpeedEvil | the modem pretty much won't though. |
| 23:05.57 | SpeedEvil | In some countries you may be able to make emergency calls. |
| 23:06.00 | NeoStrider | GREAT! |
| 23:06.05 | orospakr | NeoStrider: it'll pretty much be a PDA. |
| 23:06.28 | NeoStrider | thats exactly what I want! |
| 23:06.37 | NeoStrider | a gorgeous PDA, much like Neo |
| 23:06.44 | NeoStrider | and with a TRUE OS |
| 23:06.54 | mcclade | Hi eveyone. |
| 23:06.55 | NeoStrider | not that crap you get in usually |
| 23:07.03 | NeoStrider | hi mcclade |
| 23:07.34 | mcclade | All the docs in the Wiki mention that the GPS stuff currently doesn't work in qemu. Is that still the case or does someone have a solution in the works? |
| 23:08.43 | Vegar | if you don't have an external GPS device, it doesn't work |
| 23:09.52 | NeoStrider | be back later |
| 23:09.55 | NeoStrider | bye fellows |
| 23:09.59 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 23:10.09 | SpeedEvil | (not in that sense) |
| 23:10.18 | Skwid_ | hah |
| 23:10.45 | mcclade | Hmm, I've got a bluetooth GPS reciever but hooking that up is probably going to be a pain in the ass. I might look into writing some sort of dummy GPS device for qemu. |
| 23:10.47 | mcclade | Thanks. |
| 23:11.14 | SpeedEvil | No need. |
| 23:11.25 | SpeedEvil | GPSd does fake if you want that. |
| 23:11.50 | mcclade | Ahh, that sounds like exactly what I need. |
| 23:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko clinton_ (n=clinton@c-68-49-173-78.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 23:12.26 | SpeedEvil | Or just (while true echo \$GPGGA,`date "%....`... |
| 23:14.41 | *** part/#openmoko gerikes (n=mhildret@pool-72-70-245-142.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:14.47 | Skwid_ | SpeedEvil: hum, the links stayed as "/wiki/Page" |
| 23:15.04 | SpeedEvil | You should be able to browse if you start at the main-page link |
| 23:15.06 | Skwid_ | and firefox thinks that means filesystem/wiki/Page |
| 23:15.44 | Skwid_ | that's what I did |
| 23:15.58 | SpeedEvil | IIRC it worked last time I did it. |
| 23:16.44 | Elrond | Hmm, can't one dump out relevant parts of the wiki? I though, wikipedia did that weekly? |
| 23:16.54 | Jason1 | Im getting an errorwhen trying to build QEMU w/ MokoMakeFile: |
| 23:16.54 | Jason1 | "Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'pppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in the $PATH. Cant find those packages in the Ubuntu repos, so I guess I need to seek them out and build them from source, correct? |
| 23:17.07 | cesarb | Elrond: *weekly*? |
| 23:17.07 | SpeedEvil | Prolly |
| 23:17.11 | SpeedEvil | netpbm |
| 23:17.17 | cesarb | Elrond: it takes *ages* to compress the dumps... |
| 23:17.32 | cesarb | Elrond: it takes so long, they even made a special parallel bzip2 to speed things up |
| 23:17.50 | Skwid_ | SpeedEvil: hum all the browsers do the same thing |
| 23:17.52 | Elrond | cesarb - Heh, I'm just oudated. ;o) |
| 23:18.07 | Skwid_ | is there a way to make wget replace the /wiki with a ./wiki ? |
| 23:18.08 | cesarb | Elrond: answering the question, you need shell access to create the dump, AFAIK |
| 23:18.09 | SpeedEvil | Skwid_: odd - it seemed to wrok for me last time. |
| 23:19.07 | Elrond | cesarb - Well, some admin could create the dumps on a weekly basis (openmoko wiki should be doable on a weekly basis). |
| 23:19.16 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-212-102.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 23:20.05 | rwhitby | Jason1: netpbm |
| 23:20.14 | rwhitby | please add that to the wiki page if it's not there alread |
| 23:20.16 | rwhitby | y |
| 23:20.24 | Jason1 | speedEveil/rwhitby: that did it. |
| 23:20.31 | Jason1 | Ill updatethe Wiki |
| 23:20.35 | rwhitby | thx |
| 23:22.05 | cesarb | Elrond: it should be doable even in a daily basis... unlike the huge moster which is enwiki |
| 23:22.54 | *** join/#openmoko waldmeister (n=waldmeis@i59F744D7.versanet.de) |
| 23:24.13 | waldmeister | whois |
| 23:24.31 | waldmeister | oh |
| 23:24.33 | Elrond | cesarb - weekly would fully be sufficient. |
| 23:24.37 | waldmeister | heya! |
| 23:25.00 | waldmeister | getting some probs while making qemu. |
| 23:25.07 | waldmeister | perhaps someone can help? |
| 23:25.08 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) |
| 23:25.12 | SpeedEvil | Wiki is small. |
| 23:26.10 | Elrond | aloril - Can you add "software-bla" as a command, giving SpeedEvil's standard software-answer? |
| 23:26.54 | waldmeister | i've compiled complete image with gcc 4.1.2, then i switched to 3.4.6-r2 (gentoo versioning) and tried "make qemu" |
| 23:27.02 | waldmeister | result: mtn: /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/libstdc++.so.6: version `CXXABI_1.3.1' not found (required by mtn) |
| 23:27.16 | SpeedEvil | maybe with "it support.*?$" |
| 23:28.47 | Skwid_ | well, i can't seem to get the links working |
| 23:30.25 | ajmitch | for something like coreutils breaking, where should the patch be placed for it to build properly? |
| 23:32.46 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:33.26 | Elrond | ajmitch - bugzilla.openmoko.org can't be too wrong. |
| 23:33.40 | mcclade | waldmeister: I'd guess maybe a useflag issue? |
| 23:33.41 | Elrond | Anyway, good night people. |
| 23:33.54 | SpeedEvil | Night |
| 23:34.14 | Elrond | :) |
| 23:34.53 | ajmitch | Elrond: right, but for testing & building? :) |
| 23:35.17 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 23:37.02 | waldmeister | mcclade : in gcc or libstdc++ |
| 23:38.37 | waldmeister | mcclade : i linked the 4.1.2 libstdc++ to 3.4.6 libstc++ (libstdc++ from gcc 3.4.6 only includes v1.3 NOT 1.3.1)..strange |
| 23:38.48 | waldmeister | it starts compiling... |
| 23:38.54 | waldmeister | *confused* |
| 23:39.20 | mcclade | I'm just reading up on it now. I'm guessing you did gcc-config to select gcc-3.4.6-r2? Did you do a source /etc/profile afterwards? |
| 23:39.52 | waldmeister | yap |
| 23:40.45 | waldmeister | and i did a "strings /usr/lib/gcc/i686-pc-linux-gnu/3.4.6/libstdc++.so.6 | grep CXXABI" |
| 23:41.02 | mcclade | I'm reading a few posts on the Gentoo forums where people had similar errors, always to do with conflicts between gcc versions. |
| 23:41.07 | waldmeister | it returned CXXABI_1.3 |
| 23:41.28 | waldmeister | bit the file from gcc4 returned CXXABI_1.3 AND CXXABI_1.3.1 |
| 23:41.47 | waldmeister | so i moved the old gcc3-file and linked to the new... |
| 23:41.48 | cesarb | waldmeister: that's because that library is versioned |
| 23:41.50 | waldmeister | uhoh! |
| 23:42.02 | waldmeister | starting...booting..WHOA |
| 23:42.04 | cesarb | waldmeister: you compiled something with a newer one, which used symbols which didn't exist in the older one |
| 23:42.06 | waldmeister | hehe..works |
| 23:42.41 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:42.43 | cesarb | waldmeister: using a newer one for running will not cause problems, using it for compiling might cause problems |
| 23:42.52 | waldmeister | yeah. but compiling everything with gcc3?! |
| 23:43.02 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-161-100.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 23:43.41 | waldmeister | however: linking is a workaround. where should i place it? openmoko-wiki? gentoo wiki? |
| 23:43.51 | cesarb | waldmeister: you said you compiled the image with gcc4... it probably compiled mtn (which is not the image, but a tool used while building it) with gcc4 |
| 23:44.34 | cesarb | waldmeister: the correct solution would be to clean your build and recompile with the correct gcc/libstdc++ (you can also clean the individual package which is causing you trouble) |
| 23:45.49 | cesarb | waldmeister: linking the library of one gcc with the other might cause strange problems in the future, potentially in unrelated situations... it's bad advice, so don't add it to the wiki |
| 23:45.53 | waldmeister | eh...if correct version means gcc3 (qemu NEEDS it) ..no ;) |
| 23:46.08 | waldmeister | okay |
| 23:46.19 | waldmeister | using gcc3 with qemu only :D |
| 23:46.25 | waldmeister | but: s3c_adc_write: Bad register 0x8 |
| 23:46.36 | waldmeister | while running openmoko in qemu :( |
| 23:46.43 | cesarb | waldmeister: I compiled everyting with gcc4 here, qemu automatically uses gcc3 if it's installed, so the easier way is to have both versions of gcc in your machine and let the qemu build system pick the correct one |
| 23:46.59 | cesarb | waldmeister: ignore that bad register message, it's harmless afaik |
| 23:47.34 | cesarb | Does anyone know if the first batch is already sold out? |
| 23:47.37 | waldmeister | what do youm mean "both in the system"? is used gcc-config to change |
| 23:48.16 | Jason1 | cesarb: not for sure, but looking at the RT numbers, it as to be very, very close. |
| 23:48.41 | cesarb | waldmeister: you shouldn't need to use gcc-config, as qemu's build automatically tries to use "gcc-3.3" or "gcc-3.4" (and some other variants) if available |
| 23:49.24 | mcclade | cesarb: I don't think it's quite that simple on Gentoo, it seems to handle gcc versions in its own "special" way. (; Didn't work for me anyway. |
| 23:49.52 | cesarb | mcclade: hm |
| 23:52.04 | waldmeister | compiling on Athlon XP 2000+ (32bit) plus 2x2000MhZ on Macbook is funny :P |
| 23:57.10 | happycube | cesarb - weird... what nic is that? |
| 23:57.43 | cesarb | happycube: the one I bought was a counterfeit Encore |
| 23:57.53 | ferric | how do you counterfeit a NIC?! |
| 23:57.58 | cesarb | happycube: but I later also found it with other brands |
| 23:58.31 | cesarb | ferric: simple, get a Silan SC92031 chip, and paint a "Realtek 8139D" text on top of it (complete with the ugly Realtek crab icon) |
| 23:58.45 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-830ad9f23ecfac13) |
| 23:59.16 | *** join/#openmoko ExxonValdee1 (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
