| 00:00.01 | SpeedEvil | they don't do incoming |
| 00:00.05 | cb22 | linux_galore, well, if they use an atheros chipset |
| 00:00.15 | andylockran | SpeedEvil: surely that's a simple hack? |
| 00:00.19 | pavelm_away | speed: They do |
| 00:00.39 | pavelm_away | speed: Ask your network provider to tear down the firewall for you. |
| 00:00.43 | SpeedEvil | I mean most providers don't allow incoming connections over GPRS |
| 00:00.46 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hmm, the neo could do a ping outside, and then tunnel back? :-) |
| 00:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko _alcik_ (n=kahuna@chello089078040207.chello.pl) |
| 00:00.56 | linux_galore | if the GTA03 has a digicam then we now have a serious spy tool |
| 00:01.23 | Elrond | linux_galore - *G* Yeah. |
| 00:01.26 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: that works |
| 00:01.40 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - And you can trigger the neo by sms ;-) |
| 00:01.44 | pavelm_away | speed: O2 czech does, if you ask them nicely. |
| 00:01.55 | _alcik_ | Hi guys... anyone of you ordered P1? |
| 00:02.01 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: unless you've got an unlimited contract - you really don't want botnets/... scanning you. |
| 00:02.08 | pavelm_away | speed: Of course, you want unlimited data for _that_. |
| 00:02.31 | pavelm_away | good night, everyone! |
| 00:02.42 | linux_galore | heh, biggest purchaser of the moko is "the company" |
| 00:02.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, as I said: sms-to-neo "hi neo, please create tunnel home, I want to ssh to you" ;) |
| 00:02.56 | andylockran | pavelm_away: night! |
| 00:03.00 | linux_galore | Im out |
| 00:03.15 | pavelm_away | linux: the Kompany? |
| 00:03.22 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. 385 bytes/sec is 1G/mo |
| 00:04.13 | ferric | _alcik_: i did |
| 00:04.22 | pavelm_away | was the "dumb usb charger" problem solved somehow? Will it at least charge with 100mA? |
| 00:04.49 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it not with the default software. |
| 00:04.50 | _alcik_ | did U get some confirmation? or do U know that anybody did? |
| 00:04.55 | Elrond | pavelm_away - It should charge at 100mA in "off mode". |
| 00:05.07 | SpeedEvil | The supplied charger has a resistor added, which the neo can sense somehow |
| 00:05.09 | ferric | _alcik_: did you get an rt email? |
| 00:05.24 | _alcik_ | yeah... and thats it.... |
| 00:05.27 | pavelm_away | elrond: aha.. but if I leave it booted in gui in dumb charger, it will just drain the battery? Bad :-( |
| 00:05.38 | ferric | _alcik_: as far as i know that's all you're supposed to get... |
| 00:05.47 | ozzloy | Elrond: i've already looked at the wiki, it says any gsm should be compatible. does "compatible" mean "will provide me with service"? |
| 00:05.50 | Elrond | pavelm_away - The cpu/lcd will eat more than 100mA ;-) |
| 00:05.51 | ferric | (but i may have heard that some people got another email confirming their order) |
| 00:06.05 | pavelm_away | elrond: Bad... |
| 00:06.10 | pavelm_away | good night! |
| 00:06.28 | Elrond | ozzloy - That's the idea, yes. But nobody will give you a 100% guarentee. :-) |
| 00:06.30 | _alcik_ | 'Please keep in mind that this message does not imply that we accept your order, but thats we have received it. |
| 00:06.30 | _alcik_ | You will receive another message as order confirmation after our staff has accepted it. |
| 00:06.48 | Elrond | ozzloy - There's a list of tested / should-really-really work provicers on the wiki. |
| 00:07.17 | ferric | _alcik_: that would the message then. what rt id are you? |
| 00:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko mil_ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 00:07.31 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 00:07.37 | ferric | :/ |
| 00:07.58 | Elrond | ferric - They will produce more, if people ask. At least they keep telling that. |
| 00:08.13 | _alcik_ | 2048 but they realy started counting from 1? |
| 00:08.35 | Elrond | 2<<11 ;) nice |
| 00:08.38 | ferric | _alcik_: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006757.html |
| 00:08.42 | Elrond | s/2/1 |
| 00:09.00 | ferric | Elrond: they've ben... unreliable in the past :) |
| 00:09.08 | andylockran | started from 1820 we guess |
| 00:09.19 | andylockran | I'm 1879 :p - really hope I get one |
| 00:10.20 | ferric | heh |
| 00:11.29 | Elrond | 1820 - 2712... about 900 already... hmm. |
| 00:11.40 | _alcik_ | DAMN... i have missed that post |
| 00:12.01 | Elrond | I need to go to bed now. |
| 00:12.13 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=federico@dsl-245-180-153.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 00:12.49 | _alcik_ | in fact I have not received any mail from any of list for about 16 hours.... |
| 00:13.05 | andylockran | night everyone |
| 00:13.17 | Elrond | Yes: Night everyone. |
| 00:14.54 | _alcik_ | ferric did U get some emails from community list today? |
| 00:15.11 | ferric | _alcik_: no, i haven't gotten any emails |
| 00:15.17 | ferric | _alcik_: that is strange, yes |
| 00:16.17 | _alcik_ | ferric how about this link above... its from today, 9pm.... :) |
| 00:16.53 | ferric | _alcik_: something funny is going on |
| 00:18.09 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-30-64.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:18.38 | mil_ | hi. "Please keep in mind that this message does not imply that we accept your order, but thats we have received it. |
| 00:18.38 | mil_ | You will receive another message as order confirmation after our staff has accepted it" did anyone get the order confirmation yet? |
| 00:19.16 | _alcik_ | mil_ I did not :( |
| 00:19.31 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@84-12-20-189.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:19.34 | ferric | neither did I |
| 00:19.45 | ferric | andylockran: did you get 2 messages or 1? |
| 00:19.54 | _alcik_ | ANYONE did? |
| 00:20.54 | mil_ | but did you get the auto reply? only got that one. |
| 00:22.03 | _alcik_ | mil_ autoreply yes... order confirmation no... Im really hoping that is because OM guys went to sleep and not because I have ordered too late... |
| 00:22.33 | _alcik_ | or too celebrate ;-) |
| 00:22.37 | _alcik_ | to |
| 00:24.04 | _alcik_ | mil_ how early, and what order no U got? |
| 00:24.24 | mil_ | 2097 |
| 00:25.31 | _alcik_ | well Im just before U... Please keep in mind that this message does not imply that we accept your order, but thats we have received it. |
| 00:25.32 | _alcik_ | You will receive another message as order confirmation after our staff has accepted it. |
| 00:25.40 | _alcik_ | sorry for that |
| 00:30.40 | *** join/#openmoko spinexorz (n=spine@c-67-191-33-21.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 00:31.16 | *** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 00:31.47 | spinexorz | anyone know if the neo can play FLVs, or is it that all video is slow on it? |
| 00:31.47 | aloril | spinexorz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:32.59 | SpeedEvil | There is no flash player from macromedia |
| 00:33.05 | SpeedEvil | so it's open source only |
| 00:33.34 | spinexorz | you dont need flash player to play an FLV file though |
| 00:33.48 | spinexorz | mplayer plays them |
| 00:33.54 | spinexorz | so does gstreamer |
| 00:34.37 | SpeedEvil | mplayer doesn't play youtube |
| 00:34.51 | SpeedEvil | Says 'no compressed flv' recently for me |
| 00:35.16 | _alcik_ | it plays it for me... |
| 00:35.29 | spikebike | er much of mplayer is propietary |
| 00:35.37 | spikebike | depends on which codecs you have |
| 00:35.43 | spinexorz | i dont care about youtube, i just figured a movie in FLV format would probably play better |
| 00:36.02 | spikebike | so it works in mplayer != works with opensource |
| 00:36.22 | zecke | night |
| 00:36.38 | spikebike | requireing apt-get install win32codecs is a bad sign |
| 00:36.45 | spinexorz | lol |
| 00:36.51 | _alcik_ | spikebike U could be right:-) i cant remember now what i have installed... |
| 00:37.41 | spinexorz | so theres no way to make the current model play any video at full speed in fullscreen? |
| 00:37.44 | *** part/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-23-24.net.novis.pt) |
| 00:37.48 | mil_ | SpeedEvil: did the playback video used a compressed codec? tought it was only some kind of uncompressed avi due to the speed issues |
| 00:38.00 | SpeedEvil | spinexorz: yes, you can |
| 00:38.10 | SpeedEvil | spinexorz: there is a QVGA mode for the |
| 00:38.12 | SpeedEvil | LCD |
| 00:38.22 | SpeedEvil | At that, the CPU can easily do the decoding. |
| 00:38.31 | spinexorz | oh yea |
| 00:38.37 | spinexorz | i hadnt thought aboutt that |
| 00:38.56 | spinexorz | i really want a neo but im going to wait for the next model |
| 00:39.03 | SpeedEvil | Personally - unless you are going to jam the phone in your eye, eveh 320*240 may be overkill. |
| 00:39.31 | SpeedEvil | It's 140DPI. That's better than all desktop monitors. |
| 00:40.44 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfUrl (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 00:40.53 | spinexorz | so in qvga i CAN play video at full speed? can X be backgrounded? |
| 00:41.46 | SpeedEvil | yes, dunno exactly how it's done. |
| 00:42.14 | SpeedEvil | It may even be a seperate x server or something silly. |
| 00:43.13 | SpeedEvil | Eventually it'll be made nice |
| 00:43.31 | galexande | speed, you know not of which you speak |
| 00:43.31 | galexande | you'll see |
| 00:43.39 | galexande | well maybe with luck you'll never actually use a qvga palmtop :) |
| 00:43.50 | spinexorz | http://youtube.com/watch?v=yjhzm_hpEbo |
| 00:43.53 | galexande | (i'm excited) |
| 00:44.01 | spinexorz | im not, not for this version |
| 00:44.30 | SpeedEvil | galexande: For average video. Not for text |
| 00:44.34 | galexande | speed, oh |
| 00:44.35 | galexande | :) |
| 00:45.01 | spinexorz | the thing is playing like 1 frame every 5 seconds |
| 00:45.41 | delinka | 0.2FPS! w00t! |
| 00:45.47 | spinexorz | lol |
| 00:46.03 | spinexorz | i hope the nect model comes with 3d acceleration |
| 00:47.20 | SpeedEvil | spinexorz: what are you playing |
| 00:47.40 | SpeedEvil | And on what? |
| 00:47.51 | spinexorz | what do you mean? |
| 00:48.00 | SpeedEvil | to get 1 frame/5s |
| 00:48.10 | spinexorz | http://youtube.com/watch?v=yjhzm_hpEbo |
| 00:48.12 | spinexorz | not me |
| 00:48.17 | spinexorz | i dont have a neo yet |
| 00:48.25 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A5725F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:48.58 | spinexorz | thats straight out of FICs headquarters |
| 00:50.53 | anrp | that's ... pretty terrible |
| 00:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@144.90.11.17) |
| 00:51.11 | anrp | but then again 461mhz pxa255 is barely enough for 320x240 anyway |
| 00:51.23 | anrp | 266mhz arm9 is probably going to fare far worse |
| 00:51.44 | SpeedEvil | At what codec? |
| 00:51.45 | spinexorz | i wouldnt mind playing really low quality video in a format that doesnt strain the proc much |
| 00:51.53 | anrp | h.263 |
| 00:51.54 | SpeedEvil | You're not talking mpeg4 |
| 00:51.55 | spinexorz | i was thinking FLV |
| 00:52.00 | SpeedEvil | but mpeg1 |
| 00:52.16 | SpeedEvil | h.263 - no way |
| 00:52.21 | anrp | its still a lot of bits to move around without hardware assist |
| 00:52.28 | anrp | even just the video stream is a lot of memory bandwidth |
| 00:52.36 | SpeedEvil | It's not really. |
| 00:52.47 | anrp | ? |
| 00:52.52 | SpeedEvil | I've played mpeg1 video on a P100 |
| 00:52.59 | SpeedEvil | which is around the same class of hardware |
| 00:53.03 | anrp | simple codecs you can do... |
| 00:53.32 | anrp | at least that smedia chip has h/w mpeg assist |
| 00:53.40 | spinexorz | huh? |
| 00:53.46 | anrp | for gta02 |
| 00:53.46 | spinexorz | is that in the current model? |
| 00:53.54 | anrp | no :/ |
| 00:54.00 | SpeedEvil | Some tests with a 2.8" video indicated that 200kbits/s at 120*160 was pretty much OK. |
| 00:54.02 | spinexorz | *sadface* |
| 00:54.09 | SpeedEvil | On my desktop display |
| 00:54.13 | anrp | 120x160 though... |
| 00:54.23 | anrp | it is only 2.7" across, true, but still |
| 00:54.29 | SpeedEvil | You may want more |
| 00:54.45 | anrp | may? ;/ |
| 00:54.56 | spinexorz | yea thats not a lot of definition |
| 00:55.01 | SpeedEvil | 210*160 or so is pretty much OK unless you hold it very close. |
| 00:55.07 | anrp | i have realistic expectations, audio at least will be fine |
| 00:55.16 | anrp | and i'm not really going to be watching video on a 2.7" screen regardless |
| 00:55.18 | SpeedEvil | MP3 reportedly takes 25% CPU |
| 00:55.35 | anrp | that's believable |
| 00:55.43 | SpeedEvil | Which is annoying. |
| 00:55.51 | anrp | libmad? |
| 00:56.01 | SpeedEvil | Because even with the next gen hardware accel, it'll mean that you can't slow the CPU down |
| 00:56.24 | SpeedEvil | (there is a 12Mhz mode which uses very little power) |
| 00:56.31 | anrp | not continuously, true, but you can cycle speeds |
| 00:56.43 | SpeedEvil | anrp: maybe. |
| 00:56.57 | anrp | and you can also do dynamic frequency scaling on the s3c2410 |
| 00:56.59 | SpeedEvil | anrp: There is no buffering in the ADC. |
| 00:57.03 | anrp | so you could clock it to 60mhz for instance |
| 00:57.31 | SpeedEvil | anrp: have you actually done this/ |
| 00:57.44 | spinexorz | anyone here know long would the battery last playing 128kb MP3? |
| 00:57.44 | anrp | i was looking at the datasheet, the PLL is configurable |
| 00:57.50 | anrp | but no i have not |
| 00:57.53 | anrp | i have no hardware D: |
| 00:57.56 | anrp | someone should fix that! |
| 00:57.59 | SpeedEvil | spinexorz: At least 6 hours. |
| 00:58.10 | galexande | my ipaq with famplayer and 300x225 mpeg2 at 240kBits/sec...can decode about 7fps |
| 00:58.11 | spinexorz | cool |
| 00:58.12 | spinexorz | thx |
| 00:58.14 | SpeedEvil | spinexorz: it's almost certainly going to be less than 12. |
| 00:58.16 | galexande | it's a 206mhz strongarm |
| 00:58.21 | anrp | 266 D: |
| 00:58.37 | anrp | if you run the core at 2V then it's guarenteed to operate normally at 266 |
| 00:58.45 | anrp | they only allow up to 206 when Vcore is 1.8 |
| 00:59.04 | rwhitby | root |
| 00:59.19 | SpeedEvil | I _think_ the core voltage can be fiddled with on the fly. |
| 00:59.34 | anrp | if the plc51??? allows it; is it switching? |
| 00:59.39 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 00:59.49 | anrp | then you can do all sorts of crazy stuff |
| 00:59.51 | SpeedEvil | I need to do more reading on that bit. |
| 00:59.54 | galexande | star trek is totally watchable, but famplayer sucks |
| 01:00.35 | galexande | i think if you reencode stuff specifically for it, it will be a perfectly enjoyable experience. i don't know how many consumers want to do that |
| 01:00.52 | anrp | if you wrap it in a nice interface, no biggie |
| 01:01.07 | anrp | lavc/mencoder can deal with almost everything so its very possible |
| 01:01.24 | galexande | consumers will have a gfx accelerator anyways |
| 01:01.28 | linux_galore | there are a few Linux UI based tools for re-encoding video file that are very easy to use |
| 01:01.34 | linux_galore | ie dvdrippomatic |
| 01:01.44 | galexande | someone, i think mickey, said that the video is actually quite fast, so the s3c may be faster than the ipaq. |
| 01:01.56 | SpeedEvil | Look on video_player |
| 01:01.58 | SpeedEvil | on the wiki |
| 01:02.03 | anrp | for a specific application, you can make a simple app that takes anything and downcodes it to something small |
| 01:02.09 | SpeedEvil | someone said that it got to 23fps QVGA |
| 01:02.26 | anrp | eh? |
| 01:02.28 | SpeedEvil | But that was completely unoptimised |
| 01:02.34 | anrp | Vcode default is 2.1V |
| 01:02.38 | anrp | *core |
| 01:02.45 | linux_galore | I use a GP2X to watch video files on the move because you dont have to re-encode it will resize on the fly just about anything |
| 01:03.14 | linux_galore | they are pretty cheap to buy too only about AU$200 |
| 01:03.15 | SpeedEvil | I would have bought a GP2X. |
| 01:03.37 | SpeedEvil | But lack of wifi killed it |
| 01:03.38 | SpeedEvil | for me |
| 01:04.04 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: you can use a wifi usb dongle with it just fine |
| 01:04.11 | SpeedEvil | Well - yes. |
| 01:04.18 | SpeedEvil | That's not really portable though. |
| 01:04.37 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: there is even a company that has made a break out IO board for the things |
| 01:05.10 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@CPE001a70d1de84-CM0019474a8676.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:05.54 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: I have a short lead -> usb wifi dongle and that sits happily inside its case |
| 01:06.04 | linux_galore | leather case* |
| 01:06.12 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 01:06.15 | SpeedEvil | Anyway. |
| 01:06.24 | SpeedEvil | I have no money for the Neo |
| 01:06.33 | SpeedEvil | I also have no money for the Neo + GP2X |
| 01:06.48 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: buy a Nokia N770 on ebay |
| 01:06.57 | linux_galore | or a Zaurus 560 |
| 01:06.58 | SpeedEvil | Again, no money. |
| 01:07.00 | linux_galore | 5600 |
| 01:07.03 | SpeedEvil | And I'd buy a new 770 |
| 01:07.13 | anrp | 5600 was pretty weak |
| 01:07.14 | SpeedEvil | As they are the same price as on ebay, plus warranty |
| 01:07.20 | SpeedEvil | (or were last time I looked) |
| 01:07.22 | anrp | the c???? series was a lot better form factor |
| 01:07.46 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: there is this weird thing called "selling stuff" you buy something cheap then sell it to make money |
| 01:08.13 | SpeedEvil | linux_galore: problems obtaining stuff to sell. Lack of cash at the moment. |
| 01:08.21 | SpeedEvil | Bits fell off my house. |
| 01:08.33 | SpeedEvil | I had to replace them as water was getting in. |
| 01:08.34 | spinexorz | QVGA on 2.7" FTW lol |
| 01:09.04 | SpeedEvil | Hence no money for neo, though I've already bought the bits to add hardware onto it and possibly sell. |
| 01:09.11 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: I have to buy a new TV, so my budget is blown |
| 01:09.23 | unknown_lamer | have to buy a tv |
| 01:09.23 | anrp | have to? |
| 01:09.27 | SpeedEvil | But I can't sell them as I can't design/test with the Neo I don't have. |
| 01:09.32 | linux_galore | yeah its dying |
| 01:09.37 | unknown_lamer | tv is lame |
| 01:09.53 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: my wife watches TV |
| 01:09.59 | linux_galore | I dont |
| 01:10.01 | anrp | the truth emerges |
| 01:10.06 | anrp | figured it would be for the missus |
| 01:10.09 | SpeedEvil | Well - wife is a handy thing to have :) |
| 01:10.20 | unknown_lamer | books! |
| 01:10.29 | linux_galore | if she doesnt have a TV then I have to listen to her crap |
| 01:10.36 | unknown_lamer | time to get a new wife |
| 01:11.03 | linux_galore | heh |
| 01:11.23 | SpeedEvil | Done right, GPS personals could be interesting. |
| 01:11.34 | SpeedEvil | Done wrong - Stalking time! |
| 01:11.55 | linux_galore | I actually have another TV in the bedroom so Im not bothered much but its nice to watch a DVD on a large screeb |
| 01:11.58 | linux_galore | screen |
| 01:12.04 | unknown_lamer | that's what the 24" crt is for |
| 01:12.27 | linux_galore | she wants a 80cm + LCD unit |
| 01:13.02 | linux_galore | I have a 22" LCD on the computer of course (always look after No# 1) |
| 01:13.30 | linux_galore | Dell have the 27" high res LCD's on special I noticed |
| 01:13.59 | linux_galore | wonder if I can find a digital set top box with DVI output |
| 01:14.54 | linux_galore | Im out shit to do |
| 01:15.21 | DukeOfUrl | I have a USB TV tuner, but it really heats-up my Mac Powerbook. |
| 01:15.35 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host81-153-25-122.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:18.06 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@CPE001a70d1de84-CM0019474a8676.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:22.29 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. When downloaded does http://youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA&mode=related&search= - the AGPS/drop-test play for anyone in mplayer? |
| 01:22.35 | SpeedEvil | just makes strange noises for me. |
| 01:23.59 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host81-153-25-122.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:24.33 | galexande | it works great for me speedevil |
| 01:24.59 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@CPE001a70d1de84-CM0019474a8676.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:25.28 | *** part/#openmoko jseghers (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 01:26.39 | galexande | it seems to use libavformat to decode it |
| 01:26.57 | galexande | the ffflv codec in ffmpeg |
| 01:27.33 | anrp | it looks like you could get power consumption in middle speed normal mode down to 81mW at 67MHz with Vcore = 1.5 |
| 01:27.41 | anrp | with back of envelope calculations |
| 01:27.59 | anrp | probably less |
| 01:28.41 | anrp | also the 33mW figure would be scaled by 1.5/1.8 if you do voltage control |
| 01:29.16 | anrp | the pcf50606 has this huge hole in the middle of the voltage range though, that's a real shame |
| 01:29.30 | anrp | goes 1.475-1.5-1.8-2.1 (?) |
| 01:29.38 | anrp | with 25mV steps below 1.5 -_- |
| 01:30.29 | anrp | sadly min spec voltage is 1.5 for the processor |
| 01:30.54 | SpeedEvil | galexande: misdetects format here |
| 01:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko riot (n=wntrmut@krombacher-pils.oph.RWTH-Aachen.DE) |
| 01:31.25 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host81-153-25-122.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 01:31.29 | riot | hi :) |
| 01:31.34 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-90-105.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 01:32.12 | SpeedEvil | anrp: are you counting PLL power? |
| 01:32.26 | anrp | for the 87mw figure? |
| 01:32.30 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 01:32.48 | anrp | yes, that number is derived from the worst case normal mode power figure |
| 01:33.02 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 01:33.07 | anrp | 297 * (1.5/1.8)(voltage control) * (67/203)(downclock) |
| 01:33.20 | anrp | power is proportional to both of those numbers so... |
| 01:33.25 | SpeedEvil | The PLLs use a constant amount of power |
| 01:33.28 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it. |
| 01:33.39 | SpeedEvil | It's not really proportional to frequency |
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| 01:34.01 | anrp | the pll is very little though from what I understand, since the outputs aren't that much |
| 01:34.09 | anrp | a bit of capacitive loading but that's all |
| 01:34.18 | SpeedEvil | I remembered it as 30mA |
| 01:34.24 | anrp | 30mA? no way |
| 01:34.28 | anrp | thats obscene.. |
| 01:34.33 | SpeedEvil | I agree. |
| 01:34.39 | SpeedEvil | I don't have the datasheet here. |
| 01:34.40 | riot | has anyone experience in getting a provider (say eplus) to subsidize a neo? |
| 01:34.40 | aloril | riot: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:34.49 | SpeedEvil | riot: unlikely. |
| 01:34.52 | anrp | ? |
| 01:34.57 | anrp | http://web.mit.edu/anrp/www/s3c/ |
| 01:34.59 | SpeedEvil | riot: it's not even a functional phone at the moment. |
| 01:35.04 | anrp | that's the latest processor datasheet, if you want it |
| 01:35.04 | hads | riot: It's not a phone yet |
| 01:35.40 | anrp | p495 has the breakdowns |
| 01:35.52 | anrp | 30mA on the PLL would put it at more than all of the other peripherals combined |
| 01:35.59 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 01:36.14 | anrp | maybe it was 30mW? |
| 01:36.18 | anrp | or 30uA .. |
| 01:36.19 | SpeedEvil | Maybe. |
| 01:36.23 | SpeedEvil | not uA |
| 01:36.27 | SpeedEvil | not for a 266Mhz PLL |
| 01:36.34 | riot | ok, so i'd rather take some "expensive" phone to my extension of contract and sell that on ebay? |
| 01:36.39 | SpeedEvil | You're looking at several mA at least. |
| 01:36.48 | SpeedEvil | riot: that's probably the only way it'll work. |
| 01:36.55 | riot | interesting info in the wiki :) |
| 01:36.56 | SpeedEvil | riot: call them - you never know. |
| 01:37.25 | riot | SpeedEvil: yeah, had that in mind. I'd probably want to lease a mobile data flat - they shall pay me to do so >;) |
| 01:38.07 | riot | Interesting project.. veeery interesting :D |
| 01:38.22 | anrp | it doesn't go into detail about the pll power consumption anywhere, afaict |
| 01:38.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Alternate_colours/materials]] [[Scroll-wheel]] [[Removal_of_free_space]] [[Hardware_keyboard_docking_station]] [[Analogue_gaming]] [[Square_case]] [[Digital_gaming]] and other changes |
| 01:39.03 | anrp | should be easy enough to figure out with hardware though, use the pll and enter 11.289mhz mode and compare against slow mode |
| 01:39.19 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 01:39.29 | SpeedEvil | This isn't the version I remember. |
| 01:39.34 | anrp | there are two |
| 01:39.40 | anrp | the earlier one talks about the 266mhz part |
| 01:39.42 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 01:39.43 | anrp | the newer one doesn't |
| 01:39.45 | SpeedEvil | I remember. |
| 01:39.56 | SpeedEvil | It was a posting about the bugs in the P0 on the phone. |
| 01:40.09 | anrp | since the arm IP isn't designed for that speed, it's just samsung testing above what the arm design is guarenteed for |
| 01:40.14 | anrp | maybe arm got annoyed so they stopped doing that? |
| 01:40.37 | anrp | 495 has the V-vs-speed graph though |
| 01:40.47 | anrp | p495 |
| 01:40.51 | SpeedEvil | Something along the lines of 'due to a hardware error, the PLLs don't turn off properly, this means that it uses 30mW extra |
| 01:40.54 | SpeedEvil | or somthing like it. |
| 01:41.00 | anrp | oh. design error |
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| 01:41.06 | anrp | they needed the pll to stay on to supply a clock |
| 01:41.11 | anrp | that was fixed for v4 |
| 01:41.30 | anrp | ...i think |
| 01:42.15 | anrp | you could probably even run the core below 1.5V at a slow speed |
| 01:42.22 | anrp | but it looks like samsung doesn't test that |
| 01:43.03 | SpeedEvil | anrp: Hmm - what speed can USB work down to. |
| 01:43.06 | anrp | you could also go the other direction and run at 280mhz with vcore=2.1, since that vcore is the default anyway ~_~ |
| 01:43.10 | anrp | 48MHz min |
| 01:43.16 | SpeedEvil | Somewhere it said something like clock E needs to be over 20Mhz |
| 01:43.32 | SpeedEvil | where do you get that figure from? |
| 01:43.50 | anrp | p243 |
| 01:44.06 | anrp | upllcon is the usb clock |
| 01:44.12 | anrp | er upll |
| 01:44.16 | anrp | upllcon is the contorl reg ~_~ |
| 01:44.38 | anrp | it has its own clock so it can stay at that frequency any time the core isn't in slow mode |
| 01:44.45 | anrp | or off |
| 01:44.55 | anrp | s/clock/pll/ |
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| 01:45.41 | anrp | well, its not really 48mhz min, more like 48mhz any time its enabled |
| 01:46.04 | anrp | most of the usb1.1 device datasheets i've looked at use some integral division from 48MHz as their clock |
| 01:46.22 | anrp | usb2 is 480mbps.. there's probably a relation there D: |
| 01:46.33 | SpeedEvil | So there is a seperate USB PLL? |
| 01:46.35 | anrp | yes |
| 01:46.44 | SpeedEvil | Missed that. |
| 01:47.01 | anrp | it's not that obvious, upllcon is only mentioned 4 times in the entire document |
| 01:47.42 | anrp | well. actually.. |
| 01:47.46 | anrp | p224, paragraph 2 |
| 01:47.57 | anrp | also p230 |
| 01:48.51 | SpeedEvil | Ah - right. |
| 01:49.00 | SpeedEvil | Is the 48Mhz outputted... |
| 01:49.07 | anrp | its only to the usb block |
| 01:50.20 | anrp | so i do think that getting audio mode power consumption maybe 2x above slow is possible |
| 01:50.20 | anrp | well, 2-4x |
| 01:50.25 | anrp | at least for the cpu... |
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| 01:51.55 | SpeedEvil | Looks like not |
| 01:52.32 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering as I'm interested in adding another USB device inside the case, and losing the xtal would be nice. |
| 01:52.59 | anrp | also there may be ultra optimized codecs available for arm, since arm is The Embedded Platform(tm) |
| 01:53.23 | anrp | a lot of USB devices take 12MHz in and have an internal pll |
| 01:53.25 | anrp | does yours? |
| 01:53.27 | SpeedEvil | Pulling the bluetooth module, jamming in a hub chip into that port between the BT module and the socket, and then a port coming out to the back of the phone. |
| 01:53.31 | anrp | (the board crystal is 12MHz) |
| 01:53.37 | SpeedEvil | Oh - that might work. |
| 01:53.48 | SpeedEvil | IIRC it can use 12 or 48 |
| 01:53.56 | anrp | then you're golden |
| 01:53.58 | SpeedEvil | Small 4 port hub |
| 01:54.02 | anrp | just have to watch capacitive loading |
| 01:54.05 | SpeedEvil | Yeah |
| 01:54.39 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 01:54.49 | anrp | there are microscopic 12MHz resonators, i don't know if they're accurate enough for USB though.. |
| 01:54.52 | SpeedEvil | 60Mhz might just be fast enough to do mp3 |
| 01:54.56 | anrp | cstce series from murata |
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| 01:55.14 | codyl | I know this is the wrong place to ask, but does anyone know who I can talk to about my order from direct.openmoko.com ? |
| 01:55.15 | SpeedEvil | You have hardware? |
| 01:55.27 | SpeedEvil | codyl: you can talk to anyone here. |
| 01:55.30 | anrp | i have usb design experience D: and some other misc electronic design |
| 01:55.34 | anrp | but no neo |
| 01:56.01 | SpeedEvil | anrp: oh - I thought you meant that was on the neo |
| 01:56.12 | anrp | oh, no, the one in the neo is a normal quartz crystal |
| 01:56.33 | codyl | SpeedEvil, I placed an order- i got no confirmation for a day, then i got two confirmations with different ticket numbers |
| 01:56.36 | SpeedEvil | Found a funky design using a small atmel chip to bit-bang slow USB |
| 01:56.46 | anrp | bitbanging usb? |
| 01:56.47 | anrp | eww ... |
| 01:57.02 | SpeedEvil | codyl: email a response to one saying 'I only want one' |
| 01:57.06 | codyl | anrp, in regards to the atmel bit-banged usb- it sucks USB 1.0 |
| 01:57.09 | SpeedEvil | They are manually processing theml. |
| 01:57.17 | codyl | SpeedEvil, ive gotten no responses from anybody |
| 01:57.19 | SpeedEvil | USB1 is quite fine for some things. |
| 01:57.21 | anrp | well low speed devices it might be ok |
| 01:57.24 | anrp | sensors, hid, etc |
| 01:57.30 | SpeedEvil | codyl: you won't. |
| 01:57.33 | anrp | like that touch sensor :o |
| 01:57.42 | SpeedEvil | codyl: prolly wait a day or two. |
| 01:57.44 | anrp | but there are small micros with real usb interfaces now, so :/ |
| 01:57.46 | codyl | SpeedEvil, and sales@openmoko.com bounced |
| 01:58.09 | SpeedEvil | anrp: actually. I'm planning on doing the touch sensor over SPI :) |
| 01:58.18 | anrp | quantum chip? |
| 01:58.20 | SpeedEvil | codyl: was that the reply-to on the email? |
| 01:58.22 | anrp | or analog devices? |
| 01:58.24 | SpeedEvil | anrp: analog |
| 01:58.32 | anrp | mm |
| 01:58.37 | anrp | well the spi bus is there to be used |
| 01:58.52 | SpeedEvil | anrp: I have silly ideas about a PIC hooked up to the SPI bus, doing 'stuff'. |
| 01:59.01 | anrp | that's not really silly D: |
| 01:59.17 | SpeedEvil | Primarily reading 2 3-axis accels |
| 01:59.30 | anrp | cant wait eh |
| 01:59.33 | *** part/#openmoko spinexorz (n=spine@c-67-191-33-21.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 01:59.50 | anrp | i did a pic implementation of an i2c-readable adc |
| 01:59.52 | SpeedEvil | anrp: well - unfortunately. I've got all the hardware to start hacking on it. |
| 01:59.54 | anrp | pic16f88? |
| 01:59.58 | anrp | i think that comes in micro packages now |
| 02:00.06 | SpeedEvil | anrp: but no cash to do an order. |
| 02:00.13 | anrp | yeah, $ is always an issue :\ |
| 02:01.16 | SpeedEvil | Bits of my house fell off, had to stop rain getting in. |
| 02:01.17 | anrp | you can always play with a breadboard and the accelerometers |
| 02:01.24 | anrp | hooked to a computer, to play with filters.. |
| 02:01.32 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 02:01.34 | anrp | duct tape D: |
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| 02:02.08 | SpeedEvil | Having high winds here and rain was forecast at the time - it needed fixed properly unfortunately. |
| 02:02.38 | anrp | too bad about that |
| 02:02.41 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 02:02.57 | SpeedEvil | Even got the stuff required to make the flex-PCBs. |
| 02:03.20 | anrp | mm? |
| 02:03.32 | anrp | you were going to make a flex pcb? |
| 02:03.37 | anrp | those are obscenely expensive... |
| 02:03.59 | anrp | unless you meant flex cables? |
| 02:04.11 | SpeedEvil | Nope - I mean for mounting accels. |
| 02:04.17 | SpeedEvil | And stuff. |
| 02:04.21 | anrp | stuff D: |
| 02:04.24 | anrp | better be good stuff |
| 02:04.27 | anrp | like.. lights! |
| 02:04.28 | SpeedEvil | I _think_ I can get it working - if not, well. |
| 02:04.29 | anrp | all around the case |
| 02:04.35 | SpeedEvil | Magnetometers. |
| 02:04.38 | SpeedEvil | Maybe |
| 02:04.49 | anrp | that's a big maybe, there's large current pulses from the gsm module |
| 02:05.02 | SpeedEvil | Filters...? |
| 02:05.08 | anrp | you could, i guess |
| 02:05.28 | SpeedEvil | It may not work. But would be nice. |
| 02:05.39 | anrp | and its shielded, although i have no idea if the shield is ferromagnetic or just aluminum |
| 02:05.43 | SpeedEvil | GPS + accels give a reasonably nice position solution. |
| 02:05.55 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 02:06.09 | SpeedEvil | accel + magnetometer gives a nice orientation solution I mean |
| 02:06.13 | anrp | ah |
| 02:06.19 | anrp | yeah i was confused there for a sec D: |
| 02:06.25 | anrp | gyros help out a lot, but they |
| 02:06.29 | anrp | 're $$$ |
| 02:06.34 | SpeedEvil | At the moment. |
| 02:06.35 | galexande | does GPS give compass heading? |
| 02:06.36 | anrp | and big |
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| 02:06.39 | anrp | gps can't |
| 02:06.40 | SpeedEvil | galexande: no |
| 02:06.44 | anrp | it can give you a moving heading though |
| 02:06.46 | galexande | but it does give time, though? |
| 02:06.47 | SpeedEvil | anrp: it can. |
| 02:06.55 | anrp | so if you walk 1m, it can tell you what direction you walked |
| 02:06.58 | anrp | but it can't give static heading |
| 02:07.07 | SpeedEvil | anrp: but only on multiple antenna solutions. Or ones with nulling antennas. |
| 02:07.11 | galexande | given time and location you can draw a line on the screen and hold a pen over it and use the shadow as a sundial |
| 02:07.14 | anrp | neo is not that fancy D: |
| 02:07.24 | DukeOfUrl | my Garmin has a compass--to calibrate you rotate the device 720 degrees |
| 02:07.29 | DukeOfUrl | how does that work? |
| 02:07.32 | anrp | it probably has a magnetometer |
| 02:07.33 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfUrl: that's a magnetometer |
| 02:07.34 | anrp | those are cheap |
| 02:07.49 | DukeOfUrl | not GPS? |
| 02:07.52 | anrp | ... |
| 02:07.54 | anrp | it has both |
| 02:08.00 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfUrl: it's a little chip that varies in resistance when exposed to magnetic field |
| 02:08.05 | SpeedEvil | A compass essentially |
| 02:08.08 | DukeOfUrl | oh |
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| 02:09.26 | bharath | hi all |
| 02:09.43 | bharath | anyone knows when the second gen. openmoko phone might come out? |
| 02:09.43 | aloril | bharath: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:09.51 | SpeedEvil | bharath: Oct |
| 02:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 02:10.00 | anrp | for once that damn greeting knows the answer D: |
| 02:10.05 | SpeedEvil | Might |
| 02:10.08 | bharath | thanks speedevil |
| 02:10.16 | SpeedEvil | Hardware - probably. |
| 02:10.21 | SpeedEvil | Software may be lagging hten |
| 02:10.38 | bharath | hmm... so is there a site that explains the improvements over the current phone? |
| 02:11.01 | SpeedEvil | yes - the FAQ above I think |
| 02:11.06 | SpeedEvil | Or the Neo1973 page on the wiki |
| 02:11.36 | bharath | okay |
| 02:11.39 | riot | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973#.22Phase_2.22_.28GTA02.2C_.22Mass_Market.22.29 |
| 02:11.39 | bharath | thanks |
| 02:12.02 | riot | quite interesting. |
| 02:12.19 | bharath | wow... looks like the basic version alone will be 450 bucks for the second version |
| 02:12.31 | anrp | yep |
| 02:12.37 | riot | what are the current problems? Why is it not a "working phone"? Is that mentioned in the wiki? |
| 02:12.43 | SpeedEvil | Software |
| 02:12.49 | arachnid | riot: Most of the software isn't written |
| 02:12.50 | galexande | riot, no text messages, the UI is pretty unusable |
| 02:12.52 | SpeedEvil | there is a barely functioning dialer app. |
| 02:12.52 | anrp | there's no usable phone software |
| 02:12.54 | SpeedEvil | And that's about it |
| 02:13.15 | galexande | riot, it's basically a set of APIs waiting for nirvana |
| 02:13.29 | bharath | so they're basically waiting for the open source community to do the whole usable software thingy? |
| 02:13.34 | doc|home | erm, need I point out that mr cobain is no longer with us? :/ |
| 02:13.34 | riot | is it able to give me a gprs-network connection? |
| 02:13.41 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much |
| 02:13.42 | ferric | riot: yes |
| 02:13.51 | ferric | doc|home: what?!!! |
| 02:14.05 | anrp | who? |
| 02:14.15 | bharath | hmm.... would be interesting to see how it turns out |
| 02:14.16 | anrp | oh. him |
| 02:14.16 | ferric | chuckle |
| 02:14.19 | riot | ferric: now.. ok. means i can run a jabber-client?? and write email? (at least, if i write meself a nice gui or use a bluetooth keyboard?..) |
| 02:14.31 | doc|home | ferric: :) |
| 02:14.39 | riot | does it sport python? |
| 02:14.41 | ferric | riot: if you port a jabber client to openmoko, sure |
| 02:14.44 | anrp | it can |
| 02:14.46 | ferric | riot: check the wiki |
| 02:14.47 | galexande | riot, you are able to give it a gprs-network connection |
| 02:14.51 | anrp | its basically a linux machine |
| 02:14.54 | doc|home | ferric: would a vanilla gtk one not work? |
| 02:14.55 | anrp | to do whatever you want with |
| 02:15.01 | anrp | right now at least |
| 02:15.14 | ferric | doc|home: not sure. you could be right. |
| 02:15.15 | galexande | vanilla gtk would work, you jus have to deal with build environment issues, and integrating it into their hacked matchbox panel. |
| 02:15.21 | anrp | now, it doesn't actually *do* much, but it certainly can |
| 02:15.31 | riot | if i can have python and network and can phone with people - then i'm all set - not much more required... |
| 02:15.40 | riot | oh yes, lots of mp3. |
| 02:15.44 | ferric | i wish someone would give more clarity on # of orders, when they're shipping etc. |
| 02:16.02 | anrp | i'm just happy they committed to a sale date and kept with it |
| 02:16.03 | hads | Why? Have some patience, they're busy. |
| 02:16.03 | anrp | ;/ |
| 02:16.04 | bharath | so does anyone here already have the fone? |
| 02:16.10 | anrp | some early devs do |
| 02:16.12 | galexande | ferric, july 16th |
| 02:16.19 | bharath | oh 16th.. ok |
| 02:16.20 | ferric | hads: haven't we been patient enough? :) |
| 02:16.21 | riot | a friend of mine developed an mpd-touchscreen-interface just some weeks ago (using python and pygame ;) |
| 02:16.29 | anrp | mpd? |
| 02:16.37 | ferric | galexande: so they say |
| 02:16.38 | riot | musicplayerdaemon :) |
| 02:16.46 | riot | http://musicpd.org/ |
| 02:16.50 | bharath | amarok will rule on the fone!! |
| 02:16.50 | bharath | :D |
| 02:17.02 | riot | bharath: uh oh. no, please not. |
| 02:18.03 | riot | could it be nice to irc on the phone, using a bt-keyboard? |
| 02:18.11 | galexande | riot, ircII would be easy to build |
| 02:18.27 | riot | galexande: naaah. no way. i ssh into some other (BIG) box with irssi running ;) |
| 02:18.37 | anrp | it does have a display but you have to realize how high the DPI is |
| 02:18.40 | anrp | its really tiny... |
| 02:18.44 | riot | ahh. gotta check software ports.. |
| 02:18.55 | anrp | so 80x25 would be hard to read |
| 02:19.04 | anrp | that's under 0.1" height per line |
| 02:19.05 | riot | anrp: yeah, i'm asking myself exactly that question.. will i need glasses? 8) |
| 02:19.12 | ferric | you could up the font size though |
| 02:19.19 | anrp | then you get less data... which may be ok |
| 02:19.22 | ferric | pavel did that today |
| 02:19.26 | riot | gotta try that out here.. |
| 02:19.27 | galexande | i'm thinknig 60x40 makes more sense, anyways |
| 02:19.36 | galexande | :) |
| 02:19.48 | riot | oh, wait, its rotated.. :) |
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| 02:20.49 | riot | eek. quite tiny. My statusbar is _far_ too big :D |
| 02:21.19 | riot | i'm fascinated. What intriguing possibilities that phone offers.. |
| 02:21.27 | anrp | get one D: |
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| 02:25.08 | juri_ | so, any word about what the ID# means? |
| 02:25.34 | galexande | juri, it's an RT tracking number, it started at 1820 and includes several miscellaneous streams of information, but is mostly orders. |
| 02:25.50 | anrp | ...mostly orders starting from around 1820 |
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| 02:29.10 | NeoStrider | hello folks |
| 02:29.37 | arw1 | hello NeoStrider |
| 02:30.04 | NeoStrider | whats up with that great phone? |
| 02:30.04 | aloril | NeoStrider: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
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| 02:31.12 | kalikiana | Cool, many people in here. |
| 02:31.46 | Aria | Indeed. |
| 02:32.43 | juri_ | oh good. then i can expect to actually get a neo. : |
| 02:32.47 | juri_ | :) |
| 02:32.48 | NeoStrider | does the Neo 1973 got any preview? |
| 02:32.56 | kalikiana | I came here to see if openmoko is popular. I wonder if I should fetch the theme and see how my alpha version app would look in openmoko. :P |
| 02:32.57 | NeoStrider | preview no |
| 02:32.58 | NeoStrider | reviewe |
| 02:33.00 | NeoStrider | review |
| 02:33.14 | NeoStrider | whats app, kalikiana? |
| 02:33.31 | galexande | kalikiana, imho the devkit is kind of a pain, i wouldn't bother unless i were to eventually get the phone |
| 02:33.48 | galexande | it's pretty much the same as any other OE platform |
| 02:34.00 | kalikiana | NeoStrider, I'm makin a web browser with webkit and somebody suggested openmoko would need one :) |
| 02:34.10 | galexande | and how! |
| 02:35.10 | NeoStrider | cool! |
| 02:35.11 | riot | hmm.. should i wait for GTA02 or order now? |
| 02:35.21 | NeoStrider | but the Neo doesnt have a browser?! |
| 02:35.29 | kalikiana | So I looked in the wiki. I think if I really make a moko version, I should find out how you use a browser in a portable way because I don't have the money to test my gprs that much ;) |
| 02:35.47 | kalikiana | NeoStrider, According to the wiki, it shall have one |
| 02:36.21 | NeoStrider | thats bad! |
| 02:36.42 | NeoStrider | i want to port my games to open moko too |
| 02:36.51 | NeoStrider | but this OE scheme seems to complicated |
| 02:36.54 | galexande | riot, you've probably missed the first round of gta01s, i'd wait until they get the first batch shipped and find out what the realistic time is for the second batch |
| 02:36.58 | NeoStrider | Im very used to scratchbox already |
| 02:37.06 | kalikiana | Yep, as far as I don't overdo it I'm using mobile Opera. Could be hard to compete :P |
| 02:37.30 | galexande | kalikiana, if you're really working on a webkit browser, talk to zecke, because i think he is also. |
| 02:37.35 | galexande | i don't think he's made it terribly far |
| 02:38.12 | kalikiana | galexande, I have been talkin to him already, he's fixed some bugs for me :) |
| 02:38.18 | galexande | sweet, then |
| 02:39.14 | kalikiana | Didn't know he was so popular here. *g |
| 02:39.32 | *** join/#openmoko psyphen (n=gavin@gir.slampt.net) |
| 02:39.44 | galexande | i just remembered reading his blog, it gave me hope that i wouldn't have to build my own web browser or use dillo :) |
| 02:39.53 | riot | hmm. i definitely need python on the platform.. |
| 02:40.11 | galexande | +++++ |
| 02:40.13 | galexande | oops |
| 02:40.14 | riot | and preferably twisted |
| 02:40.45 | galexande | riot, you are free to install python, and it is trivial, but it is not part of the openmoko "platform" |
| 02:40.48 | galexande | (may change+{ |
| 02:41.14 | riot | galexande: does it work? I'm unsure, the wiki doesn't explicitly mention the fact. |
| 02:41.16 | galexande | so distributing python software may be a nuissance, or may not, depending on how well ipkg works out. |
| 02:41.24 | galexande | riot, it sure does, and there is at least a good start on gui bindings for it |
| 02:41.29 | riot | yay! |
| 02:41.51 | riot | i'm ordering.. |
| 02:43.00 | *** part/#openmoko kalikiana (n=kalikian@xdsl-84-44-154-242.netcologne.de) |
| 02:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-30-64.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 02:43.50 | NeoStrider | its so funny to see all this iPhone vs OpenMoko |
| 02:43.59 | NeoStrider | I never saw that comming |
| 02:44.07 | NeoStrider | and yet, its very good for us |
| 02:44.14 | galexande | strider, a fluke of release dates. the iphone reminds us all of what we hate in a mobile platform |
| 02:44.16 | riot | hmhmm.. i'm already developing a jabber client. I wonder, how hard it is to implement a good touch-screen interface. |
| 02:44.24 | galexande | riot, very :) |
| 02:44.26 | ajmitch | obviously the iphone is a better choice right now for consumers :) |
| 02:44.37 | galexande | but it's more a design problem than a programming one |
| 02:44.39 | NeoStrider | not always, ajmitch |
| 02:44.45 | galexande | this consumer wants a canvas more than a phone ;) |
| 02:44.46 | riot | galexande: yeah, for typing messages on such an inputdevice.. uh oh. |
| 02:45.04 | galexande | riot, i'm not sure the status, but there's going to be a basic text input device, like a pop-up keyboard or so on |
| 02:45.13 | NeoStrider | galexandre, sure...but , if you like the jail, welcome to iPhone |
| 02:45.19 | galexande | i suspect it will be able to use several, such as a pop-up keyboard, or a pop-up pie menue system, or xstroke drawable screen.. |
| 02:45.27 | riot | ah.. ok, failsafe, if you forgot your bt-keyboard.. oh, btw. what about these? do they work? |
| 02:45.28 | NeoStrider | iPhone==iCuffs ;-) |
| 02:45.37 | galexande | riot, they will |
| 02:45.52 | riot | (first user-interface for my client is urwid - a textmode and http interface. |
| 02:46.02 | SpeedEvil | Some police forces _do_ use white plastic cuffs. |
| 02:46.10 | galexande | i think someone ought to do the "i'm an iphone/i'm a neo" youtube but it's hard to be perfectly snarky when you're advocating a canvas ;) |
| 02:46.14 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 02:46.30 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p548826E8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:47.16 | SpeedEvil | To the tune of "I'm a red toothbrush...?" |
| 02:47.36 | NeoStrider | brazillian police doesnt use cuffs at all |
| 02:47.52 | NeoStrider | the use bullets on the damn bastards =-P |
| 02:50.29 | *** join/#openmoko rudi_ (n=rudi@p508D809C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:53.36 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 02:58.27 | BlackBsd | so how is sales going for the device? |
| 02:58.45 | NeoStrider | (nice site) |
| 02:58.51 | BlackBsd | probally pretty good.. |
| 02:59.25 | NeoStrider | let me tell you guys something |
| 02:59.35 | galexande | black, there are at least 1000 RT tickets, so a good number of orders |
| 02:59.36 | NeoStrider | there is something wrong with www.openmoko.org |
| 03:00.03 | NeoStrider | there is no easy, flashing neon lights saying "developers, download the SDK HERE!" |
| 03:00.03 | BlackBsd | RT?? |
| 03:00.32 | galexande | RT is used to track orders and some other things, so some % of those 1000 tickets are orders |
| 03:00.36 | galexande | probably most of them, but you never know |
| 03:00.48 | BlackBsd | Neo, i think the sdk is the subversion tree |
| 03:00.54 | galexande | strider, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 03:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-249-183.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:01.06 | BlackBsd | so look on the openmoko.org for MokoMakefile |
| 03:01.09 | BlackBsd | :-) |
| 03:01.14 | NeoStrider | I tried that once |
| 03:01.30 | NeoStrider | the checkout halted halfway trought the process |
| 03:01.32 | BlackBsd | svn co /path/to/tree |
| 03:02.36 | ajmitch | then building it is half the fun |
| 03:03.14 | BlackBsd | i heard it will all build on a standard linux pc?? |
| 03:03.29 | BlackBsd | assuming you have the right versions of build deps.. |
| 03:03.39 | ajmitch | so they say :) |
| 03:04.18 | BlackBsd | well, i wanted to try doing that and holding off till october for the other device... |
| 03:05.04 | galexande | ajmitch, it might work with dash now |
| 03:05.27 | ajmitch | galexande: that's good |
| 03:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 03:05.42 | BlackBsd | dont the /bin/sh command link to bash anyways?? |
| 03:05.44 | ajmitch | only way to know is to try |
| 03:05.53 | ajmitch | BlackBsd: not necessarily |
| 03:06.12 | NeoStrider | not on ubuntu liveCD , as the wiki states |
| 03:06.14 | ajmitch | and too many scripts assume that POSIX-compliant means bash-compliant |
| 03:06.22 | BlackBsd | on gentoo its bash |
| 03:06.27 | BlackBsd | on freebsd is sh |
| 03:06.28 | ajmitch | NeoStrider: s/liveCD// |
| 03:06.48 | NeoStrider | but my ubuntu install seems to be using bash anyway |
| 03:06.50 | BlackBsd | ajmitch, right, and sh is not bash |
| 03:07.18 | NeoStrider | ajmitch: sorry, I cant undertand this notation you used |
| 03:07.21 | ajmitch | NeoStrider: how recent? |
| 03:07.35 | galexande | the only bummer part is #!/usr/local/bin/bash vs #!/bin/bash |
| 03:07.45 | galexande | so i still use #!/bin/sh for my bash scripts :) |
| 03:07.49 | NeoStrider | 7.04 |
| 03:07.59 | NeoStrider | now this is confusing: |
| 03:08.00 | NeoStrider | 2 - Create your $OMDIR directory: |
| 03:08.01 | NeoStrider | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:08.28 | NeoStrider | this means creating a directory side-by-side your personal directory or inside it? |
| 03:08.35 | NeoStrider | my home is /home/daniel |
| 03:08.44 | NeoStrider | should it be /home/daniel/moko or /home/moko? |
| 03:08.45 | ferric | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:08.50 | ferric | erk |
| 03:09.00 | NeoStrider | Not Found |
| 03:09.01 | NeoStrider | The requested URL /wiktree was not found on this server. |
| 03:09.11 | BlackBsd | it can probally be whatever, just point the environment var to the right spot |
| 03:09.24 | BlackBsd | unless there is a need for the moko user |
| 03:09.30 | NeoStrider | i see |
| 03:09.54 | NeoStrider | you guys need more "idiot's guide to openmoko developement" |
| 03:10.13 | NeoStrider | I came from a Series60 world where everything was graphical and easy |
| 03:10.19 | BlackBsd | do you know gtk? |
| 03:10.28 | NeoStrider | Im currently wth Maemo, but getting spanked too |
| 03:10.29 | NeoStrider | no |
| 03:10.33 | NeoStrider | I use SDL with Maemo |
| 03:10.41 | daMaestro | eww |
| 03:10.45 | NeoStrider | I hope I can use SDL on moko too, right? |
| 03:10.54 | NeoStrider | ????????????/ |
| 03:11.00 | NeoStrider | what wrong, daMaestro? |
| 03:11.08 | BlackBsd | im not sure, i heard so. i also heard qt apps would run.. |
| 03:11.19 | daMaestro | sure, if you install SDL/qt |
| 03:11.31 | NeoStrider | now its my turn: |
| 03:11.32 | NeoStrider | qt? |
| 03:11.35 | NeoStrider | eww |
| 03:11.36 | NeoStrider | =-P |
| 03:11.45 | NeoStrider | I dont like qt visual style |
| 03:11.46 | ajmitch | daMaestro: great way to fill up that microSD |
| 03:11.58 | daMaestro | yeah, might as well right? |
| 03:11.58 | BlackBsd | i wanna know if this phone is going to have a leather cover case with something to cover/protect the face.. |
| 03:12.00 | NeoStrider | but qtopia is admirable as a plataform |
| 03:12.48 | daMaestro | BlackBsd, http://openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html |
| 03:13.02 | daMaestro | i've wondered if we get a tickless kernel |
| 03:13.08 | daMaestro | or if there is work to make the kernel tickless |
| 03:13.22 | BlackBsd | tickless?? |
| 03:13.26 | daMaestro | i'm not sure if arm can even run tickless |
| 03:13.27 | BlackBsd | as is the cpu tick? |
| 03:13.32 | daMaestro | yes |
| 03:13.45 | BlackBsd | isnt that what everthiing is based on... |
| 03:13.57 | BlackBsd | i know the scheduler need the tick |
| 03:13.57 | daMaestro | fedora 7 has a tickless kernel |
| 03:14.01 | ajmitch | in terms of a regular interrupt that runs & wakes up various bits in the kernel |
| 03:14.15 | NeoStrider | c ya fellows! |
| 03:14.19 | daMaestro | the concept was pioneered in the OLPC kernel (for fedora usage at least) |
| 03:14.32 | ajmitch | cuts down on power usage a bit |
| 03:15.08 | BlackBsd | daMestro, that is just a pouch. i mean a case that i dont have to take on and off |
| 03:15.19 | BlackBsd | but the pouch is a nice idea.. |
| 03:15.27 | ajmitch | it could be a bit hard with a touchscreen |
| 03:15.47 | BlackBsd | the touchscreen is porbally pressure sensitive. |
| 03:15.57 | BlackBsd | so it wont matter if something covers it |
| 03:16.10 | BlackBsd | a think piecs of see through plastic |
| 03:16.12 | BlackBsd | thin |
| 03:16.17 | ajmitch | but you may not get pressure in a precise place, depending on the plastic |
| 03:16.29 | BlackBsd | good point. |
| 03:16.35 | summatusmentis | why case? |
| 03:16.45 | BlackBsd | so when i drop it.. |
| 03:16.56 | *** join/#openmoko rudi (n=rudi@p508D809C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:16.57 | summatusmentis | what's the point? i mean... the casing on the neo is plastic, how is another layer going to affect that? |
| 03:17.00 | BlackBsd | i just like a leather case on all my phones. |
| 03:17.08 | summatusmentis | mm |
| 03:17.14 | BlackBsd | keeps the phone looking like new. |
| 03:17.20 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 03:17.20 | summatusmentis | I'm sure _someone_ will make a case |
| 03:17.31 | daMaestro | i'm sure you could find some company that will make a pleather case for the neo |
| 03:17.57 | summatusmentis | there are companies selling leather cases for the Zaurus |
| 03:18.17 | BlackBsd | krusell is good for making cases for everything... |
| 03:18.19 | BlackBsd | who knows |
| 03:20.16 | daMaestro | mmm pleather |
| 03:20.33 | Jason1 | I would like to see a holster for the Neo |
| 03:21.00 | Jason1 | Not too sure about the whole lanyard thing. |
| 03:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1088826441.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:21.10 | daMaestro | Jason1, i had a t-mobile sales person showing off the blackberry pearl (trying to tell me i should get one) ... and it has a "sward" sound effect that you have to download (and thus pay for) |
| 03:21.11 | riot | lol.. the german distributor of fic is here in town... *bg* |
| 03:21.20 | *** part/#openmoko gerikes (n=mhildret@pool-72-70-245-142.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 03:21.27 | daMaestro | Jason1, so he was making it make noise when using it as a sword |
| 03:21.33 | riot | i should go there and grab a phone... hehehe |
| 03:21.51 | daMaestro | Jason1, in the sense.. literally pressing the button (at least trying to) at the right time |
| 03:21.56 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:22.24 | Jason1 | LOl |
| 03:22.52 | daMaestro | so.. the first thing i am going to do when the gta02 comes out.. is write a shit prog. to take the accelerometer data and make a sword sound at the right time based on movement :-D |
| 03:23.01 | daMaestro | and then go *stab* him with it |
| 03:23.29 | Jason1 | daMaestro: awesome |
| 03:23.40 | notserpe | make the screen go to a saver of a picture of a sword too. |
| 03:24.01 | daMaestro | random tangent.. i imagined also getting a holster for it for when i go to stab him |
| 03:24.05 | daMaestro | notserpe, +1 |
| 03:24.30 | daMaestro | i guess it would be call a sheath? |
| 03:24.34 | daMaestro | called* |
| 03:25.04 | daMaestro | this was also a person that was telling me that t-mobile is going to enter the G3 market! |
| 03:25.05 | daMaestro | lol |
| 03:25.16 | daMaestro | i corrected him 5 times before giving up |
| 03:25.37 | daMaestro | he also told me i would have to unlock the neo to be able to use it on tmobile's network |
| 03:25.45 | ajmitch | heh |
| 03:25.49 | ajmitch | unlock what? :) |
| 03:25.55 | daMaestro | exactly. |
| 03:25.55 | Jason1 | daMaestro: Tmobile only hires the best |
| 03:26.04 | daMaestro | oh, it's amazing. |
| 03:26.12 | ajmitch | crap, ubuntu gutsy has an uninstallable monotone, need to get that fixed |
| 03:26.20 | BlackBsd | i heard their mesh network anoucement.. |
| 03:26.23 | daMaestro | i know regional managers that don't know what GPRS is |
| 03:26.26 | BlackBsd | sounds like good tech. |
| 03:26.33 | daMaestro | mwahahah |
| 03:26.40 | daMaestro | the didn't do shit to design it |
| 03:26.43 | Jason1 | daMaestro: Do you work for them, or do you just hang out at the cell phone store alot? |
| 03:26.47 | daMaestro | they bought it pre packaged from another company |
| 03:27.01 | BlackBsd | well the other company has a good idea |
| 03:27.05 | daMaestro | no, they own a clothing company i've done work for |
| 03:27.10 | ajmitch | isn't GPRS some thing with maps? :) |
| 03:27.21 | Jason1 | ajmitch: doh! |
| 03:27.22 | daMaestro | ajmitch, that is almost exactly what i got |
| 03:27.24 | BlackBsd | global positioning .... system |
| 03:27.32 | BlackBsd | ? |
| 03:27.37 | ajmitch | BlackBsd: retard |
| 03:27.44 | BlackBsd | radar |
| 03:27.45 | BlackBsd | ? |
| 03:27.46 | daMaestro | ajmitch, really. oh.. no our network doesn't support GPRS |
| 03:27.47 | ajmitch | heh |
| 03:28.01 | ajmitch | BlackBsd: nah, doesn't quite fit |
| 03:28.03 | daMaestro | ajmitch, you need satellites for that |
| 03:28.07 | daMaestro | lol |
| 03:28.17 | BlackBsd | reference3 |
| 03:28.24 | ajmitch | daMaestro: did you cringe in pain? |
| 03:28.27 | *** join/#openmoko Devestate (n=Devestat@75.129.163.123) |
| 03:28.31 | daMaestro | if they weren't buying me drinks... i my jaw would have hit the ground.. yes |
| 03:28.33 | Jason1 | I get frustrated when nobody can tell the difference between tZone, tMobileWeb, and Total Internet |
| 03:28.33 | BlackBsd | global positioning reference syste. |
| 03:28.58 | daMaestro | BlackBsd, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Packet_Radio_Service |
| 03:29.11 | BlackBsd | wow, i was way off |
| 03:29.18 | BlackBsd | :-P |
| 03:29.49 | Jason1 | daMaestro: of course, the other carriers are no better |
| 03:30.03 | ajmitch | Jason1: I have no idea of the difference, but my defence is living outside the US |
| 03:31.15 | Jason1 | Jason1 <-- wishes he had his Neo already |
| 03:31.21 | daMaestro | BlackBsd, the "mesh" network is a total rip off |
| 03:31.33 | BlackBsd | really? |
| 03:31.45 | daMaestro | it's neat technology... but they are basically offloading their onnet traffic to another carrier at the CPE level |
| 03:31.56 | daMaestro | it's like the ultimate hot potato routing |
| 03:31.59 | BlackBsd | i would think using tcp would help reduce airtime use |
| 03:32.04 | daMaestro | exactly. |
| 03:32.33 | BlackBsd | maybe even give better performance.. |
| 03:32.34 | daMaestro | the carrier is still making money when you pay your bill, however you are using a different transit path |
| 03:32.39 | daMaestro | you are hurting my brain |
| 03:32.45 | daMaestro | you are paying twice... that is the issue. |
| 03:32.57 | BlackBsd | i understand.. |
| 03:33.39 | daMaestro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot-potato_routing |
| 03:33.47 | arw1 | see you tomorrow |
| 03:34.06 | *** part/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@201.244.109.78) |
| 03:34.21 | summatusmentis | http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070710/tc_usatoday/newrulescouldrockwirelessworld;_ylt=An5cgjylvXnoY0k6HpGF7dLMWM0F |
| 03:34.38 | summatusmentis | what is the 700Mhz band used for in europe and non-US countries? |
| 03:36.23 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, afaik TV |
| 03:37.00 | summatusmentis | UHF/VHF? |
| 03:38.05 | daMaestro | http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/700lower.pdf |
| 03:38.13 | BlackBsd | if anyone cares... http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/07/10/2335217&from=rss |
| 03:38.42 | BlackBsd | a new scheduler is on the horizon |
| 03:38.54 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Stylus_mount]] [[Category:Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[Ruggedized]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Tamper-proof]] [[Group_Order]] [[Alternate_colours/materials]] |
| 03:41.53 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: hrm... so I assume that won't be the case anymore |
| 03:42.06 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:42.40 | *** join/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:42.49 | Psi | so, do we know if the first 1000 have sold yet? |
| 03:42.55 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, 2009 |
| 03:43.12 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, we (yea... sure) should have access to 700MHz |
| 03:43.55 | summatusmentis | well, according to this FCC guy... but that'll like change in 2008, w/ the administration(at least the person in that position will) |
| 03:44.31 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, well a quick google shows that EU also uses ~700MHz for UHF/VHF (it looks like ~900Mhz is the ceiling on that) |
| 03:44.42 | BlackBsd | lol, some dudes car just got jacked up by a wecking ball. |
| 03:44.47 | BlackBsd | http://news.yahoo.com/photo/070710/480/b7338d3aa3e04c52863761ed5195dd96 |
| 03:44.56 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: I think the US cancelled UHF/VHF, right? |
| 03:45.00 | BlackBsd | and he was in the ride |
| 03:45.16 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, not yet (afaik) |
| 03:45.27 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, that is what the fcc auction is about |
| 03:45.52 | sublime | hey ive got a video for everyone |
| 03:46.01 | sublime | think everyone will get a kick out of this |
| 03:46.03 | sublime | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qg1ckCkm8YI |
| 03:46.20 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: I see, hrm |
| 03:46.40 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: hopefully it works in the consumers favor, as per that link suggests |
| 03:47.04 | summatusmentis | aloril: calling what P2+? |
| 03:47.18 | summatusmentis | the 'end user device' that may take 6 months or more? |
| 03:47.38 | aloril | GTA02 with firmware that is "Mom and Dad" -ready |
| 03:47.43 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, the band will still end up being regulated.. but it should allow for us (as consumers) to get more wireless solutions |
| 03:47.52 | daMaestro | however, that doesn't mean we wont continue to be ripped off |
| 03:48.11 | daMaestro | it just means they (carriers) will have more frequencies with better service options to sell us |
| 03:48.13 | aloril | P2 is GTA02 (I would not call this massmarket device, more like mass market for advanced users) |
| 03:48.17 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: it means that, according to this article the bad itself will be open |
| 03:48.41 | daMaestro | my understanding is no, the band is just for sale |
| 03:48.48 | summatusmentis | yes, costs will probably be high, but the 'owner' of this band will have to rip us off on pricing, not scams like the subsidized phones etc. |
| 03:48.48 | daMaestro | it will still be regulated |
| 03:49.40 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: FCC director is calling for an 'unlocked' band |
| 03:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko sublime (n=richard@ip70-162-246-65.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 03:49.50 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, and sells us all brain implants: "google; search the world. really." |
| 03:50.09 | daMaestro | lol |
| 03:50.21 | daMaestro | well.. maybe i should read about the current directory |
| 03:50.23 | daMaestro | err |
| 03:50.25 | daMaestro | director* |
| 03:50.35 | daMaestro | 2.4GHz is getting nasty |
| 03:50.46 | summatusmentis | lol, google's got all this dark fiber all over the country, maybe they turn this band into a wireless connection to the dark fiber... |
| 03:51.12 | daMaestro | well.. no google doesn't have any dark fiber (that i know of) |
| 03:51.30 | daMaestro | it's all lit |
| 03:51.45 | summatusmentis | what? since when? |
| 03:51.53 | daMaestro | i'd love to read some of the google peering agreements |
| 03:52.04 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, find me an article that says it's not |
| 03:52.33 | summatusmentis | I was under the impression that google had bought a bunch of dark fiber, and hadn't done anything with it |
| 03:52.45 | daMaestro | buying the fiber is the expensive part.. lighting it is cheap (because you have the revenue to offset the overhead of lighting it) |
| 03:53.13 | daMaestro | i would not expect google to buy dark fiber and not light it |
| 03:53.27 | daMaestro | google has to do something to offset their peer load |
| 03:53.51 | daMaestro | i can't imagine what kind of bits the google bots eat for meals (24 hours a day) |
| 03:53.56 | ferric | daMaestro: how do you get revenue off lit fiber if there isn't demand for that kinda bandwidth? |
| 03:54.34 | daMaestro | ferric, with google.. they eat large amounts of bandwidth.. they drive carrier revenue... if not industry revenue |
| 03:54.51 | daMaestro | people need to be able to find things.. both the act of finding and the act of directing users eats bits |
| 03:55.01 | ferric | hm. |
| 03:55.13 | ferric | so they're using the fiber between their own dc's |
| 03:55.17 | ferric | not selling bw |
| 03:55.18 | daMaestro | google has got to have some serious peering agreements (aka... we get to eat all your bits.. and you get transit over our links) |
| 03:55.49 | daMaestro | well.. it's nice to move data on-net between DCs |
| 03:55.59 | daMaestro | but google doesn't make it's money indexing itself ;-) |
| 03:56.07 | summatusmentis | newest i can find is a year old, but you'd think we would've heard something |
| 03:56.23 | daMaestro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peering |
| 03:56.32 | summatusmentis | sleep* |
| 03:57.11 | BlackBsd | anyone running gentoo? |
| 03:57.22 | BlackBsd | what port is libecal? |
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| 03:57.49 | daMaestro | i think google put an ace up it's sleeve when building a network that could sustain a very high level peering arangement with all of the long haul carriers... and thus.. they basically will get global transit for next to nothing (well.. the amount of running all their on-net systems.. which is what google does anyways! :-D) |
| 03:58.02 | daMaestro | sorry. |
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| 04:17.36 | ajmitch | heh, "Linux-powered iPhone killer goes on sale" |
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| 04:36.29 | blindcoder | moin |
| 04:40.56 | galexande | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZmMh7VSFhnM <--- linux iphone killer video |
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| 04:57.50 | blindcoder | hey guys, I get an error building blueprobe 0.18-r1 using the mokomakefile. how would I go about fixing that myself? |
| 04:58.30 | blindcoder | can I just edit 'build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/blueprobe-0.18-r1/blueprobe-0.18/Makefile' and rerun make openmoko-devel-image? |
| 05:00.36 | galexande | blindcoder, i don't know. in my experience that sort of approach hasn't worked. |
| 05:00.52 | galexande | mokomakefile or bitbake or something doesn't reward ignorance :) |
| 05:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 05:01.35 | aloril | gnu_: there is rumor that GTA02 will have GPS with free drivers |
| 05:01.37 | blindcoder | great :( |
| 05:01.47 | galexande | blind, but you can still try it :) |
| 05:02.02 | aloril | gnu_: and yeah, personally I agree about "making mountain of molehill" |
| 05:02.11 | blindcoder | galexande: okay, I could edit the Makefile and it worked |
| 05:02.21 | blindcoder | galexande: now I still stand at it complaining about missing 'de.mo' file |
| 05:02.31 | blindcoder | po/de.mo that is |
| 05:03.08 | aloril | gnu_: could just add those speed/height restrictions in free driver -> shipped product works according to regulations |
| 05:06.17 | blindcoder | \o/ |
| 05:06.29 | blindcoder | touch'ing all the missing .mo files made it finish :) |
| 05:06.44 | blindcoder | no idea what that will lead to, but the build continues for now :) |
| 05:07.06 | galexande | blind, oo i'll ekep that one in mind :) |
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| 05:36.46 | anrp | gps is hard to deal with |
| 05:37.03 | anrp | the best approach is probably the same as the approach for the gsm module, well documented serial interface |
| 05:37.14 | anrp | well reasonably well |
| 05:38.06 | anrp | an open source satellite tracker with the height and speed restriction in software |
| 05:38.10 | anrp | where it's removable |
| 05:38.14 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Neo1973]] [[Removal_of_free_space]] [[Image_talk:Icon-Style1.png]] [[General-purpose_buttons_%28side-mounted%29]] [[Category:Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[Side-mounted_touch_strip_sensor]] [[Scroll-wheel]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] and other changes |
| 05:38.16 | anrp | would make it classified as a munition... |
| 05:38.35 | anrp | specifically missile guidance |
| 05:38.49 | anrp | and that, is Bad(tm) |
| 05:38.52 | aloril | anrp: I remember all that hullabaloo about encryption software export ;-) |
| 05:38.59 | anrp | its never changed for gps |
| 05:39.01 | anrp | and its unlikely to |
| 05:39.51 | aloril | there was guy from EFF here some hours ago that thinks "<gnu_> SpeedEvil: The problem is that you're making amountain from a molehill. The ITAR bureaucrats really are focused on controlling things that are real weapons -- not consumer cellphones." |
| 05:40.12 | anrp | it doesn't matter, if the restriction is removable it makes it a controlled military device in the US |
| 05:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 05:40.54 | aloril | anrp: its already removable in current Neo1973 ;-) (just need to finish reverse engineering) |
| 05:41.07 | anrp | well i wish whoever doing it the best of luck |
| 05:41.12 | anrp | and that they don't live in the us... |
| 05:41.17 | aloril | 1) replacing floss driver with proper restrictions with unrestricted floss driver |
| 05:41.30 | aloril | 2) replacing blob with unrestricted floss driver |
| 05:41.37 | anrp | fic is almost certainly not going to ship it |
| 05:42.16 | anrp | if the restriction is removable by the end user (open source), it gets caught in regulations |
| 05:42.45 | anrp | you can do it, it's not like it's that hard to figure out |
| 05:42.50 | anrp | that's just how the law in the US is |
| 05:43.02 | aloril | you didn't read what I said, both are just "cp few files to Neo1973" |
| 05:43.11 | anrp | hm? |
| 05:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:43.34 | anrp | well both are illegal |
| 05:43.41 | anrp | 1) because it has no restriction |
| 05:43.44 | anrp | 2) because it enables it |
| 05:43.46 | aloril | cp unrestricted_floss_driver closed_gps_driver |
| 05:43.47 | anrp | sound liek drm? |
| 05:44.07 | aloril | cp unrestricted_floss_driver floss_gps_driber_observing_limits |
| 05:44.18 | anrp | if its open source -> user modifiable -> removable restrictions |
| 05:44.20 | anrp | same end game |
| 05:44.45 | aloril | yes, there is *nothing* stopping you from copying over current binary blob! |
| 05:44.52 | anrp | correct |
| 05:44.54 | anrp | it is also illegal |
| 05:44.59 | anrp | that's what im trying to say |
| 05:45.26 | anrp | fic would be liable if they shipped something like that |
| 05:45.27 | aloril | so? if they ship with restricted floss it exactly same situation! |
| 05:45.35 | anrp | it won't be floss... |
| 05:45.41 | anrp | it's not now |
| 05:46.21 | anrp | and if it gets reverse engineered (likely) then whever wants to can install it |
| 05:46.21 | anrp | but that is illegal in the us |
| 05:46.24 | anrp | not the re bit, the restrictions removal |
| 05:46.26 | aloril | anrp: yeah, but I don't see difference between shipping closed *binary blob* and restricted floss *binary blob* |
| 05:46.42 | anrp | define floss binary blob |
| 05:46.43 | anrp | gpl? |
| 05:47.05 | aloril | could be BSD ;-) |
| 05:47.13 | anrp | mm that might be passable |
| 05:47.23 | anrp | but only if the source is not distributed |
| 05:47.33 | anrp | ...which makes it non floss |
| 05:47.49 | aloril | no doubt free reverse engineered source will be distributed ;-) |
| 05:47.54 | anrp | true |
| 05:48.02 | anrp | i just hope whoever dealing with it doesn't live in the us |
| 05:48.32 | CM | pavelm is in poland I think |
| 05:49.44 | anrp | hope their govts aren't in bed with the us |
| 05:49.46 | anrp | like aus |
| 05:49.47 | anrp | and uk D: |
| 05:49.48 | aloril | both in Germany I think |
| 05:50.18 | anrp | actually, i wonder if it's in itar or if its us-specific |
| 05:50.20 | anrp | hmm |
| 05:50.33 | anrp | er, itar is us law |
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| 05:53.37 | anrp | CFR 22 121.1 Category XV (c) |
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| 05:53.53 | anrp | that's the itar specific one for gps |
| 05:55.11 | anrp | christ there's a lot of laws |
| 05:55.19 | aloril | anrp: it sounded like guy from EFF had worked on ITAR, ie involved with crypto lawsuit too |
| 05:55.45 | anrp | restriction (2) is the big one |
| 05:55.47 | anrp | (2) Designed for producing navigation results above 60,000 feet altitude and at 1,000 knots velocity or greater; |
| 05:55.56 | anrp | that's the restriction that makes it non-controlled |
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| 05:56.15 | aloril | anyway, he can refer to good ITAR lawyers if FIC needs consultation |
| 05:56.16 | anrp | "or producing" is the problem |
| 05:56.25 | anrp | its really very simple, if it's removable it's controlled |
| 05:57.03 | aloril | its not "Designed for producing" when it ships with binary blob with those restrictions |
| 05:57.12 | anrp | correct |
| 05:57.50 | aloril | binary blob (complied either from closed source or free source) |
| 05:58.08 | anrp | shaky, but still good assuming a non-gpl-type free license |
| 05:58.47 | aloril | anyway, we have to see what are FIC's plans for GTA02 GPS and also see what happens with reverse engineering ;-) |
| 05:59.01 | anrp | gta02 gps is likely to be a fully integrated system like the gsm module |
| 05:59.09 | anrp | with an internal gps processor outputting nmea strings |
| 05:59.10 | aloril | could be |
| 05:59.13 | anrp | that way there's no problem with this |
| 05:59.55 | anrp | this is limiting the capabilities of what one can do with an open phone, sadly, since this kind of integration allows lower power consumption |
| 06:00.01 | anrp | instead of having 3 processors talking with serial |
| 06:00.58 | anrp | of course there are truly microscopic gps modules out there now , so its not as bad |
| 06:01.11 | anrp | gsm is a bit harder |
| 06:02.17 | anrp | CFR 22 121.1 Category XV (f) also presents a problem) |
| 06:02.33 | anrp | since it restricts "technical data" w.r.t. the restrictions listed in category XV |
| 06:02.49 | anrp | and that is about as open ended as you can get |
| 06:03.28 | anrp | software radios are possible |
| 06:03.34 | anrp | practical ... probably not wideband |
| 06:03.39 | anrp | but narrowband probably |
| 06:03.46 | aloril | yes, but they require quite amount of power compared to hardware |
| 06:03.51 | anrp | true |
| 06:04.25 | anrp | http://www.u-blox.com/products/ubx-g5010.html < there's one micro fully integrated gps |
| 06:04.32 | anrp | in 1cm x 1cm |
| 06:04.40 | anrp | probably the same size as the solution in there now |
| 06:04.55 | anrp | the gap will probably remain |
| 06:05.00 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galor1 (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 06:05.00 | anrp | the overall scale will go down though |
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| 06:07.44 | anrp | if you're interested in playing around with a SDR GPS, you may want to consider buying http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/product_info.php?products_id=8238 |
| 06:07.59 | anrp | its gps specific but reasonable cost |
| 06:09.08 | aloril | anybody gotten this mail (or other recent mails) from community mailing list?: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006757.html |
| 06:09.49 | anrp | i can't say.. not subscribed |
| 06:10.41 | aloril | anrp: hehe, if that has no problem with ITAR, then why should Neo1973 have? |
| 06:11.44 | anrp | if it worked in realtime, it would |
| 06:12.14 | anrp | as it is it's just a sensor |
| 06:12.44 | blindcoder | anrp: I've noticed the mailinglists being a bit... jumpy |
| 06:12.47 | anrp | if you took that and mated it to a high power computer able to output a realtime fix with open source code, then you'd have issues |
| 06:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 06:12.51 | CM | I aloril I haven't gotten any mail yet. |
| 06:13.04 | CM | s/I // |
| 06:13.21 | Shoragan | anrp, did i miss some announcement about the gps? |
| 06:13.21 | aloril | anrp: you mean you can't replace that "windows based capture program" with your own real time driver? |
| 06:13.30 | anrp | you can |
| 06:13.37 | anrp | if it's useful though it becomes controlled |
| 06:13.44 | anrp | Shoragan: just a bunch of speculation |
| 06:13.45 | aloril | CM: OK, I guess at some point we will get spammed from ML then ;-) |
| 06:14.07 | aloril | anrp: yeah, but isn't that same stuff as Neo1973 with binary blobb ? ;-) |
| 06:14.21 | anrp | now we're back at the user modifiable bit |
| 06:14.21 | blindcoder | aloril: I've not received it, either. but yesterday I suddenly received a batch of around 20 mails all at once from a period of about 14 hours |
| 06:14.21 | anrp | ~_~ |
| 06:14.22 | apt | :/ |
| 06:15.01 | anrp | if you distributed a binary blob with the restrictions its just a normal gps |
| 06:15.15 | anrp | if you enabled end user modification... |
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| 06:15.27 | aloril | yes and that is my point, no matter where source code for that blobb comes |
| 06:15.28 | anrp | noone is saying this makes sense |
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| 06:16.33 | blindcoder | yay, mokomakefile still building ;) |
| 06:16.35 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: Will be interesting to see your number |
| 06:16.40 | blindcoder | only one thing to fix manually so far ;) |
| 06:17.14 | Sup3rkiddo | CM: actually i dont have a card....made someone else to order it...and number? |
| 06:17.21 | aloril | Sup3rkiddo: got rt tracking mail "AutoReply: OpenMoko direct order" ? |
| 06:17.24 | anrp | you get an email |
| 06:17.29 | anrp | with a number |
| 06:17.31 | anrp | eventually... |
| 06:17.41 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: I meant ordernumber |
| 06:17.45 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, yeah...but not me, my mentor |
| 06:18.11 | *** join/#openmoko cninja (n=cninja@n219079169201.netvigator.com) |
| 06:18.11 | aloril | ah, can you ask him/her for rt number? 1820 is first number btw.. |
| 06:18.23 | aloril | (would tell something about number of orders) |
| 06:18.36 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, sure....hang on a second |
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| 06:20.23 | CM | Jason1: I moved you to the top on the P1_Owners wiki page ;) |
| 06:20.31 | CM | First is first.. :D |
| 06:20.43 | notserpe | anyone get anything from the mailing lists lately? |
| 06:21.04 | blindcoder | notserpe: not since 09:20 yesterday |
| 06:21.30 | blindcoder | soooo... not for the last 23 hours |
| 06:22.03 | paulproteus | counter |
| 06:22.04 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, a day 05:37:56 (8.235±3.0 days) (1729;246) |
| 06:22.05 | paulproteus | (-; |
| 06:22.41 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 06:22.57 | aloril | paulproteus: in theory it could ship before lower limit of above range too |
| 06:23.10 | paulproteus | aloril, I'm joking, for me, the counter has already been reached! |
| 06:23.22 | paulproteus | Meaning, like, we can all stop worrying it's vapor now. |
| 06:23.33 | aloril | hehe |
| 06:23.48 | paulproteus | I also happen to have one because of rejon@CC, but even then, they're kicking ass and accepting credit cards. |
| 06:23.52 | aloril | for me counter stops when I have installed first application on it ;-) |
| 06:24.09 | Kain | How is the current 1973 with pre rotated video? |
| 06:24.24 | CM | Kain: Slow, there's videos of it on youtube |
| 06:24.33 | anrp | prerotated simplifies processing on the s3c2410 |
| 06:24.36 | anrp | it doesn't have hw rotation |
| 06:24.42 | anrp | ..i think? |
| 06:24.57 | Kain | No I am pretty sure it does not |
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| 06:25.16 | anrp | then it should provide a sizeable speedup |
| 06:25.35 | anrp | yeah its just a framebuffer.. harder to get any simpler |
| 06:25.41 | aloril | Kain: suitably encoded video at 320x240 should play OK |
| 06:25.57 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, is this what you were looking for rt.internal.openmoko.org #3054? |
| 06:25.58 | aloril | (hardware can do that resolution full screeen) |
| 06:26.12 | Kain | Aloril, well that settles it. |
| 06:26.26 | anrp | hm? |
| 06:26.31 | anrp | it doesn't have hw scaling either... |
| 06:26.34 | aloril | Sup3rkiddo: yes, 1235 order (and spam and other) ticket numbers |
| 06:26.41 | ajmitch | nice |
| 06:26.50 | Kain | I was itching for a platform to get hacking on, it was between this, the greenphone, and the gp2x |
| 06:26.59 | anrp | greenphone is megabucks |
| 06:27.02 | anrp | and .. it's green |
| 06:27.05 | Kain | Yea |
| 06:27.14 | aloril | so.. Neo1973's sold could be higher (more than one in some orders) or it could be lower (spam) |
| 06:27.16 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, so the 1000 initial devices are sold out..awesome |
| 06:27.17 | blindcoder | Kain: go the software route as I do and wait for october :) |
| 06:27.25 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 06:27.30 | CM | Yea, in 2 days |
| 06:27.53 | anrp | i do wish the v02 hardware was out sooner |
| 06:27.55 | notserpe | any more TT blog bitterness lately? |
| 06:27.59 | anrp | since the 3d accel and mpeg accel would be very nice |
| 06:28.04 | aloril | Sup3rkiddo: yeah, so don't be surprised if there is some additional delay (hopefully they have already pulled trigger for additional manufacturing run) |
| 06:28.12 | ajmitch | aloril: well I know I'm in for part of a group order, I suspect there are a number of those to cut on shipping costs |
| 06:28.24 | aloril | CM: could have been in 1 day if web shop had handled /. |
| 06:28.35 | blindcoder | anrp: I wish I could get around 250 bucks shipping and import costs, nevermind the hardware :) |
| 06:28.42 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, yeah then 6 weeks from today, baby enters my household |
| 06:28.42 | anrp | ;/ |
| 06:28.56 | CM | aloril: True. Good thing anyway, FIC should be pleased with OM |
| 06:29.00 | anrp | you will have zero time |
| 06:29.02 | anrp | hack fast D: |
| 06:29.29 | aloril | anrp: no hw scaling, but LCD can reportedly be at 320x240 mode (no driver written yet I think) |
| 06:29.35 | anrp | mm maybe |
| 06:29.44 | anrp | there aren't any datasheets at all for the display |
| 06:29.51 | anrp | or display controller |
| 06:29.58 | Kain | blindcoder, yea no wifi on this version makes having a physical device not super benificial, so maybe your method is the sane one. |
| 06:29.59 | anrp | well display-internal controller |
| 06:30.24 | anrp | ... of course its the same for the smedia chip, but at least that one has some features |
| 06:30.53 | aloril | CM: they are, see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006690.html |
| 06:30.54 | anrp | more than "here's a block of memory. here's some registers that setup the display. enjoy" |
| 06:31.28 | aloril | Sup3rkiddo: congrats |
| 06:31.33 | CM | :) |
| 06:31.57 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, thank you man... |
| 06:32.21 | Kain | So has anyone snatched skype out of the n800 yet? |
| 06:33.44 | blindcoder | gtk+ currently compiling |
| 06:34.02 | blindcoder | it's times like these that I wish I had a better number-crunching machine. |
| 06:34.26 | CM | blindcoder: What computer are you building on? |
| 06:34.38 | blindcoder | CM: model name : AMD Athlon(tm) XP 2000+ |
| 06:34.41 | blindcoder | CM: with 512 MB RAM |
| 06:35.08 | CM | blindcoder: Ok. As I said before, 7.5h on my 3000+ 64-bit with 1gb |
| 06:35.42 | blindcoder | CM: yeah, roughly 20 hours now here :) |
| 06:35.58 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic_ (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 06:36.00 | blindcoder | CM: with a break waiting for uboot fix and a break tonight after blueprobe failed. |
| 06:36.07 | aloril | so 151 orders in last 12h or 13 order/h |
| 06:37.04 | blindcoder | CM: blueprobe was missing a bunch of .mo files which I just touch'ed and then the build continued 90 minutes ago |
| 06:37.09 | aloril | 1235/60 is about 21 order/h since opening |
| 06:37.34 | CM | blindcoder: I saw that. Weird.. I'll try an updated build now and see if it works |
| 06:38.09 | aloril | 200/day for week would be another 1000 orders |
| 06:38.35 | anrp | i dunno if that's a sustainable rate.. would be neat if it was |
| 06:39.14 | Sup3rkiddo | is the factory at FIC huge |
| 06:39.34 | aloril | it would be 8 orders/h, 60% of last 12h rate |
| 06:39.44 | anrp | oh they could definately build em fast enough |
| 06:39.48 | anrp | i was talking about the buy rate |
| 06:39.50 | aloril | Sup3rkiddo: they can reportedly produce 100k units/month |
| 06:39.56 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, shows you rock at math |
| 06:40.01 | Sup3rkiddo | cool |
| 06:41.12 | aloril | anrp: we will see, also there is 11 unit limit in orders at the moment ;-) |
| 06:41.30 | anrp | how many people ordered the limit D: |
| 06:41.35 | aloril | anrp: no idea ;-) |
| 06:41.50 | anrp | i need ... 11 phones! no, really! |
| 06:41.59 | anrp | i uh wear them down fast |
| 06:42.02 | aloril | actually, I guess if you talk with Sean you can order more probably |
| 06:42.28 | anrp | nah .. not yet |
| 06:42.39 | blindcoder | okay, I need 11 units for me |
| 06:42.41 | blindcoder | 11 for my brother |
| 06:42.46 | blindcoder | 11 for both parents each |
| 06:43.06 | blindcoder | and uh... wait, maybe I can find some more family :) |
| 06:43.20 | anrp | 11 for each of your 1 million best friends, p2p style |
| 06:43.21 | linux_galor1 | yeah but can you have a beowulf of NEO phones |
| 06:43.26 | aloril | anrp: yeah, might need to wait for a month before can order bunch of them for resale |
| 06:43.46 | aloril | at least it sounded that way from what one guy from Germany that wants to resale them said |
| 06:44.53 | Linux_Galore | hah MPIAA try track me now with my prepaid NEO running bittorent |
| 06:45.01 | aloril | Linux_Galore: hehe, that is way to import more of them "create beowulf cluster of neos" ;-) |
| 06:46.30 | Linux_Galore | neocluster |
| 06:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 06:47.58 | Linux_Galore | aloril: the first ever portable cluster, Imagine some pasty faced basement dweller with 12 phones on his belt lol |
| 06:48.26 | aloril | hehe, though better idea to have connection to real cluster ;-) |
| 06:48.40 | blindcoder | flashmob cluster, make a neocluster from every neo in range :D |
| 06:48.45 | aloril | Linux_Galore: that joke was just to get around "personal import" stuff ;-) |
| 06:49.22 | aloril | "no really, I'm not importing bunch of neos, I'm importing one beowulf cluster" |
| 06:49.34 | aloril | personal one also, not for sale |
| 06:49.47 | Linux_Galore | blindcoder: thats actually a good idea, have an app that shares cpu time between neo's |
| 06:50.40 | Linux_Galore | play Q3 and flatten the battery in every neo within 1km |
| 06:50.55 | blindcoder | hehehe |
| 06:51.08 | blindcoder | that reminds me |
| 06:51.31 | blindcoder | I guess there should be an app querying you for a root password/pin |
| 06:51.35 | blindcoder | upon first powerup |
| 06:51.50 | blindcoder | otherwise I'll just look for neos with open wifi and ssh into them as root |
| 06:51.53 | blindcoder | --> mega-pwn |
| 06:52.23 | Linux_Galore | blindcoder: should have a startup like the Nokia N800 thats goes through a set of questions |
| 06:52.54 | Linux_Galore | including setting the default master password |
| 06:53.17 | Linux_Galore | hmm always nick the startup program from the N800 heh |
| 06:53.27 | blindcoder | yeah |
| 06:53.44 | Linux_Galore | its all gtk |
| 06:53.50 | doc|home | mwahaha: http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone |
| 06:53.56 | doc|home | iphone: 0 blender: 1 |
| 06:53.59 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 06:55.08 | Linux_Galore | Ive decided to start a new scheduler post CFS, I call it Ludicrously Fair Scheduler! |
| 06:55.30 | Kain | Is there any chance of using the wifi from a usb dongle? |
| 06:55.31 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 06:55.42 | CM | doc|home: Hehe |
| 06:56.21 | anrp | he didn't take out the lithium battery? |
| 06:56.27 | anrp | that's .. a bad idea |
| 06:56.52 | aloril | Kain: yes, you need (battery) powered USB hub |
| 06:56.58 | blindcoder | tehy put an iphone into the blender? |
| 06:57.16 | CM | Kain: Yes, with a powered usb hub |
| 06:57.21 | Kain | Thanks |
| 06:57.49 | ajmitch | hey BenC |
| 06:58.08 | BenC | hey |
| 06:58.19 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: Feel like adding yourself? Highest known order number at least... ;) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 06:59.07 | Kain | Hopefully My name will be on that list by tomorrow |
| 06:59.25 | Linux_Galore | I must admit the startup program on the N800 is very well done |
| 06:59.43 | doc|home | blindcoder: yep, turned it to dust |
| 07:00.07 | cninja | uh look at the P1_Owners page, you can actually specify the colors of the phone? |
| 07:01.08 | Linux_Galore | doc|home: How to get make your iPhone open like the openmoko, 1 stick phone in blender |
| 07:01.55 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 07:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@dslb-088-064-013-226.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:02.47 | blindcoder | doc|home: ouch |
| 07:02.48 | CM | cninja: Yes, you can at least request a color |
| 07:03.07 | doc|home | Linux_Galore: "all warranties are void if ..." |
| 07:03.08 | doc|home | ;) |
| 07:03.24 | cninja | CM: I see, the colors must be Black/Silver/Orange... emailing orders@openmoko.com... :) |
| 07:03.33 | CM | cninja: They forgot to put the option on the page, but you can also mail to order@openmoko.com with your ordernumber in the subject and ask for it |
| 07:04.11 | cninja | splendid, will do so, can't wait to get our hands on our order of 2. |
| 07:04.13 | CM | cninja: Heh, exactly. If you use the ordernumer as the automatic mail said, your mail will be attatched to the same ticket and they'll know |
| 07:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:07.48 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:07.50 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko nosys (n=thomas@grincheux.griotte.com) |
| 07:15.08 | nosys | hi |
| 07:15.57 | nosys | does anyone have problems with openmoko mailling list ? I don't receive msg anymore |
| 07:16.29 | blindcoder | nosys: yeah same here |
| 07:16.33 | blindcoder | no mails in last 24 hours |
| 07:16.49 | nosys | so I'm not alone ;-) |
| 07:17.05 | nosys | is the guy at openmoko aware of this ? |
| 07:17.20 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 07:17.57 | CM | They've had mail issues before also |
| 07:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko jeff__ (n=jeff@71-82-26-57.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com) |
| 07:18.29 | CM | roh: How's it going with the webservers and mailinglists? |
| 07:18.54 | nosys | ok, so I can hope they will fix this, and don't worry about not receiving mail for my neo commands |
| 07:19.19 | ScaredyCat | CM: what f$%$ing timezone are you in ? |
| 07:19.21 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2DAFE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:19.27 | ScaredyCat | and do you ever slep |
| 07:19.32 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:19.43 | CM | ScaredyCat: GMT+1, and only about 5h/night |
| 07:20.34 | ScaredyCat | ouch |
| 07:21.32 | CM | Longer on the weekends, thankfully :D |
| 07:22.15 | TRIsoft | CM: 6 hours on WE ? |
| 07:22.49 | CM | TRIsoft: I'd say everything from 4 to 12h. I'm flexible ;) |
| 07:23.02 | TRIsoft | CM: lol |
| 07:24.06 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 07:25.10 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 07:26.08 | *** part/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 07:30.30 | jeff__ | I gotta a technical question |
| 07:30.30 | jeff__ | it's been bothering me for weeks... |
| 07:30.30 | jeff__ | I'm hoping someone can answer it |
| 07:30.58 | jeddy3 | shoot |
| 07:31.03 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@219-89-47-172.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:31.09 | doc|home | no need, the answer is 42 |
| 07:31.20 | jeddy3 | :) |
| 07:32.03 | jeff__ | lol.. but I'm wondering how to include my own app in the image using bitbake? |
| 07:32.28 | jeff__ | and by image I mean the image I use to run the QEMU emulator |
| 07:34.01 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 07:34.24 | *** part/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 07:34.31 | CM | jeff__: This was mentioned before: http://bec-systems.com/web/content/view/59/9/ |
| 07:34.41 | jeff__ | from what I understood, I'm suppose to write my own bb file, but don't I need to modify some other bb files that builds the image? |
| 07:35.25 | jeff__ | thanks, I'll take look at that website |
| 07:35.29 | *** join/#openmoko lalo (n=lalo@sourcemage/mage/lalo) |
| 07:35.36 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:35.38 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 07:35.41 | *** part/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:35.46 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:35.49 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 07:36.16 | CM | jeff__: I haven't tried it myself yet, but it looks like a good start at least. :) |
| 07:36.40 | jeff__ | yep looks like just what I need |
| 07:37.54 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] [[IPhone]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Using_Subversion]] [[User:Cninja]] [[Group_Order]] |
| 07:38.22 | jeff__ | awesome some changes to the wiki :) |
| 07:39.18 | blindcoder | well, a simple example on how to create and add a new package would certainly be nice |
| 07:40.02 | jeff__ | my thoughts exactly :) |
| 07:40.29 | jeff__ | actually that's what I've been working on for past few weeks.. just trying different things and get a simple app running |
| 07:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning1 (n=blueligh@219-89-46-39.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:40.56 | jeff__ | hopefully I can get some results to share |
| 07:41.34 | *** join/#openmoko cassidy (n=cassidy@158.93-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:42.04 | jeff__ | btw, how do you set your country in IRC? :D |
| 07:44.47 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-71-248.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 07:51.17 | doc|home | oh. well done, now he knows we're here |
| 07:51.52 | *** part/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net) |
| 07:52.53 | CM | doc|home: :P :D |
| 07:53.33 | doc|home | :) |
| 07:58.05 | mdt | oh, neo is in spiegel (a big german magazine) today: http://www.spiegel.de/netzwelt/mobil/0,1518,493595,00.html |
| 07:59.59 | ecraven | been on slashdot and heise too |
| 08:00.19 | Rince | really? |
| 08:00.20 | Rince | kewl! |
| 08:00.26 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 08:02.04 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@219-89-44-147.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 08:04.06 | mdt | ecraven, heise and slashdot are for nerds. spiegel is different ;) |
| 08:04.17 | CM | mdt: Can you have three of the same letter next to each other in german words? "Missstände" Didn't know that.. |
| 08:04.32 | mdt | that's new.... |
| 08:05.09 | CM | It's in the first paragraph after Kulturrevolution |
| 08:05.10 | mdt | if you concat two words like bett (bed) and tuch (blanket) you got bettuch in the past, betttuch now |
| 08:05.11 | ecraven | it's only new for consonant groups between vowels |
| 08:05.21 | CM | Ah, ok. |
| 08:05.31 | CM | I only learned the old german in school |
| 08:05.37 | ecraven | missstände used to be mißstände |
| 08:05.40 | mdt | CM, more than enough ;) |
| 08:06.00 | ecraven | bett + truhe always was betttruhe, iirc |
| 08:06.06 | CM | Ich verstehe ein bißchen, oder sagt man bisschen? |
| 08:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning2 (n=blueligh@219-89-48-209.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 08:06.40 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-214-229.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:06.41 | ecraven | i'd say bißchen, not sure about the correct writing nowadays |
| 08:06.53 | ecraven | it keeps changing.. reforms, reforms of reforms, reformed reforms.. |
| 08:07.15 | blindcoder | it's bisschen, the ß is gone nowadays |
| 08:07.20 | blindcoder | mostly, that is |
| 08:07.35 | mdt | whatever, what comes out is that the spiegel is critizing the iphone as too closed ;) |
| 08:08.14 | blindcoder | yeah, the spiegel is a 'linkes kampfblatt' these days anyways ;) |
| 08:08.32 | CM | Hehe |
| 08:09.02 | CM | I should read more german.. 10 years since I had it in school |
| 08:09.15 | ecraven | (i'd actually say "bisserl" ;) |
| 08:09.58 | mdt | but they say, that the neo may be purchased with contract & subvention from a provider... didn't know that |
| 08:10.03 | blindcoder | ecraven: a kumm, de boarische bleschl is fei eh ned guad fueas schreim, de is fueas sprecha gmacht woan |
| 08:10.13 | CM | mdt: Just read that too |
| 08:10.24 | CM | I haven't heard anything about that |
| 08:10.34 | mdt | would be interesting to know which one... |
| 08:10.34 | ecraven | oba österreichisch komma jo nu fü schena schreim ois wia redn |
| 08:10.40 | blindcoder | guass that's just guesswork at spiegels part |
| 08:11.02 | CM | ecraven: I've been in Wien, Salzburg and Bad Gastein.. Very nice country! :D |
| 08:11.16 | ecraven | it is ;-) nice cities, nice nature.. i like it a lot here |
| 08:11.50 | CM | The latest mail I saw from Sean said that they'll have resellers for the P2, that's all I remember |
| 08:11.57 | blindcoder | I've just been driving through austria on my way to italy a few weeks ago |
| 08:12.04 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 08:12.08 | CM | But since the phone isn't locked, how are they supposed to sell it with a plan? |
| 08:12.49 | ecraven | can't they lock it? |
| 08:13.01 | mdt | they don't need to |
| 08:13.08 | mdt | you sign a contract for 2 years |
| 08:13.23 | CM | True.. |
| 08:13.25 | mdt | you have to pay anyway however u use your mobile |
| 08:13.31 | CM | I don't know how the locking works anyway |
| 08:13.47 | mdt | the phone does not accept sims from other providers |
| 08:14.02 | mdt | it should be in the chip so it should be possible |
| 08:14.02 | blindcoder | mdt: or any other sim, for that matter |
| 08:17.54 | ynezz | i don't think that they actualy locks any phones here in .cz (they used to before) |
| 08:18.50 | ynezz | would be fun to see unlockers flashing "unlocked" linux to neo :) |
| 08:18.58 | ynezz | for $20 |
| 08:19.32 | mdt | the linux is not locked, the gsm chip is |
| 08:20.09 | ynezz | it's done in firmware, not in gsm chip |
| 08:20.20 | ecraven | isn't it possible to lock a phone to only one sim chip? |
| 08:20.52 | ynezz | it is |
| 08:21.22 | ynezz | if you change it, you've to enter security code to unlock phone |
| 08:21.55 | ynezz | mdt: I don't think there is a phone which have a carrier lock inside gsm chip |
| 08:22.37 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@251.9.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 08:22.42 | mdt | ynezz, where else? but: not all phones have a sep. gsm chip |
| 08:22.50 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 08:22.55 | ynezz | system |
| 08:22.59 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 08:23.02 | blindcoder | yay, another 'missing mo files' error |
| 08:23.24 | ynezz | mdt: in system (let it be symbian, wince...) |
| 08:23.43 | mdt | ynezz, i'm not shure, i will check that ;) |
| 08:24.00 | ynezz | in some cases there is some special IC just for that |
| 08:24.44 | *** part/#openmoko jeff__ (n=jeff@71-82-26-57.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com) |
| 08:30.52 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@kendall.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 08:35.20 | tuukkah | can we estimate how long the battery lasts with always-on gprs? |
| 08:35.58 | woglinde | 6 hours? |
| 08:36.18 | nohar | ouch |
| 08:36.46 | mjr | tuukkah, soon I can ;] |
| 08:36.55 | tuukkah | oh, so i won't be able to remain connected to irc all the time |
| 08:37.11 | mjr | depends on how much data you transfer, surely |
| 08:37.13 | tuukkah | mjr, do you have experience from other platforms? |
| 08:37.39 | woglinde | tuukah probalzy more if bt is off and backlights |
| 08:37.45 | mjr | not really had reason to try that with my n-gage |
| 08:38.10 | woglinde | but I thing yous either have bt enabled or display to be useful |
| 08:38.10 | mjr | yeah and bt=off -> cpu can be in low-power mode |
| 08:38.18 | tuukkah | i'm interested in gprs on *without* network activity as that can be kept to minimum |
| 08:38.21 | mjr | woglinde, no you don't |
| 08:39.02 | mjr | it's a bit of a shame that bt requires the cpu to be properly running |
| 08:39.07 | woglinde | mjr the only reason for always gprs on is push services |
| 08:39.17 | mjr | but tradeoffs, tradeoffs |
| 08:39.24 | woglinde | but that can be handled in otherways |
| 08:39.25 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 08:39.57 | mjr | I would like my always-on chat presence as well |
| 08:40.19 | mjr | also at times location updates to the net |
| 08:40.31 | mjr | but that can be not-quite-real-time |
| 08:41.34 | mdt | how long would it take to reestablisch a gprs connection - seconds? i don't think only push-services require always on |
| 08:41.44 | tuukkah | always-on chat can send updates only if someone pings you or you open the display |
| 08:42.08 | tuukkah | mdt, yeah, a few seconds |
| 08:42.16 | mdt | see |
| 08:42.21 | mdt | no option |
| 08:42.29 | Elrond | aloril - Yes, ph5 and me are in Germany. pavelm is in Czech AFAIK. |
| 08:43.50 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 08:44.34 | tuukkah | mdt, i don't know. i might be able to wait for the seconds |
| 08:44.53 | mdt | in a irc chat? :D |
| 08:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko _alcik_ (n=kahuna@iv-nat.matrix.pl) |
| 08:45.20 | hrw | pavelm is Czech |
| 08:45.22 | tuukkah | mdt, yes, *when* i haven't been chatting for a long time and the display is off |
| 08:45.40 | _alcik_ | hi all... |
| 08:45.45 | woglinde | tukkah wahah use a bouncer |
| 08:45.47 | nosys | and in standard idle mode (just waiting for incoming call) how does the battery last ? |
| 08:46.08 | woglinde | nosys cant say I have powermanegment problems |
| 08:46.10 | woglinde | or the hw |
| 08:46.36 | nosys | ok, I will see when I receive mine... |
| 08:46.56 | tuukkah | woglinde, of course i use, but i want notifications when someone pings me |
| 08:46.57 | _alcik_ | have U seen last openmoko planet entry? http://planet.openmoko.org/ |
| 08:47.39 | mjr | yeah, what's the use of a phone if you can't use irc/IM as an SMS replacement :] |
| 08:47.47 | woglinde | ouch |
| 08:48.45 | mjr | poor stressed-out Harald |
| 08:48.51 | notserpe | _alcik_: wow. |
| 08:49.44 | Elrond | Huh. |
| 08:49.50 | Elrond | What's up with Harald there? |
| 08:50.15 | woglinde | I hope nothing thats let the project down |
| 08:50.16 | mjr | well, at least I hope it's stress |
| 08:50.17 | hrw | too much work, too much figthing with .tw/.cn people |
| 08:50.21 | woglinde | or let quit him |
| 08:50.29 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@achn-4db49db0.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 08:50.39 | mjr | and not Sean and cmpny deciding to put proprietary advertising modules in the kernel |
| 08:51.27 | Elrond | a) (I personally think, that people are more important than projects, but that's another thing) |
| 08:51.44 | Elrond | b) The project will go on, I'm quite sure. |
| 08:51.55 | mjr | Elrond, hear, hear |
| 08:52.01 | woglinde | elrond as long as sean is there zeah |
| 08:52.07 | blindcoder | people are replacable |
| 08:52.19 | woglinde | blindcoder "sure" |
| 08:52.40 | CM | blindcoder: I just rebuilt with the latest makefile updates, no problems |
| 08:52.53 | Elrond | woglinde - Exactly. And if I read Sean lately correctly, FIC has reorganized itself for better openmoko support. So I don't think, that they will return quickly. |
| 08:52.54 | woglinde | blindcoder thats whe we have consultans |
| 08:53.02 | Elrond | s/return/change 180 degree/ |
| 08:53.08 | woglinde | why |
| 08:53.13 | aloril | (script) planet: Harald "LaF0rge" Welte: Insanity http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11#20070711-insanity |
| 08:53.36 | blindcoder | CM: quite strange. I did an update-makefile setup openmoko-image-devel and got the problem everytime. is there anything else I should have done? |
| 08:54.10 | _alcik_ | I think this is the stress/fight regarding some ordering stuff... |
| 08:54.11 | CM | blindcoder: Haven't heard about that mo file issue before, so no clue |
| 08:54.15 | blindcoder | woglinde: from my official card, I'm one of those consultants. I'm here at my current position for 3 years now. |
| 08:54.35 | blindcoder | CM: okay, thanks. I'll see what happens later on |
| 08:54.48 | ynezz | nice blog post :p |
| 08:56.53 | CM | I really hope Harald gets a real break now. I'm amazed he lasted that long with the non-stop working |
| 08:57.31 | _alcik_ | CM how long? |
| 08:57.47 | Elrond | 4 weeks at least. |
| 08:57.56 | woglinde | blindcoder and you can easily be exchanged? |
| 08:58.01 | woglinde | I guess no |
| 08:58.06 | CM | Well, he's been on the project from start |
| 08:58.11 | blindcoder | woglinde: sure, my contract is quittable within four weeks. |
| 08:58.27 | blindcoder | woglinde: then they'll hire someone lese to do the job |
| 08:58.38 | CM | blindcoder: I've been almost 2 years on the same assignment, but there's no way in hell the can replace me.. :P |
| 08:58.50 | _alcik_ | Elrond now I understand him better..... |
| 08:58.53 | *** join/#openmoko elliotf_ (n=elliotf@adsl-71-134-236-171.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 08:58.57 | blindcoder | CM: why shouldn't they? |
| 08:59.10 | Elrond | _alcik_ - hmm? |
| 08:59.55 | CM | blindcoder: Because they would get too much trouble finding out how all the programs and things work. We're already understaffed, and there's zero time for documentation or any kind of redundancy |
| 09:00.21 | CM | blindcoder: They were nervous as hell when I was away 2 weeks for vacation. Things almost grinded to a halt. |
| 09:00.50 | *** join/#openmoko mikini (i=c026c50e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-6476f8b9d4d02a96) |
| 09:01.31 | CM | Ford sucks, they're refusing to spend any money at all at useful things, like people who do work. All they think of is SOX and Securtiy Reviews that hinders everyone! |
| 09:01.34 | blindcoder | CM: that's why we work in three-person-teams. for every job, there's at least three people that know how to do it. |
| 09:01.40 | _alcik_ | 4 weeks of non-stop working.... well, something like this turn your patience totaly off :-) |
| 09:01.40 | CM | </endrant> |
| 09:02.13 | Elrond | _alcik_ - more like 10 months of non-stop working. |
| 09:02.41 | CM | _alcik_: Yes, exactly. Every day, including weekends, since last autumn |
| 09:03.08 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-064-121-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 09:03.24 | *** join/#openmoko irix (n=irix@gnu/translator/irix) |
| 09:04.40 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A35723.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko pygi (n=mario@155-29.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 09:05.30 | _alcik_ | CM I have marathons like this in my life, but never longer than 2 maybe 3 months... and I was total wreck... |
| 09:06.05 | _alcik_ | CM like Elrond said, people are most important... |
| 09:07.40 | _alcik_ | anyway.... anyone received ordering confirmation? |
| 09:07.40 | CM | For sure |
| 09:07.53 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:07.57 | CM | Not yet. Not a sound, besides the automatic reply |
| 09:08.42 | Elrond | They're totally busy. Give them time. |
| 09:09.31 | morricone | what does http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11/#20070711-insanity mean? |
| 09:09.43 | _alcik_ | ELROND that is easy to say... :-) Im so close to hold neo in my hands and waiting so long... |
| 09:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 09:10.16 | buz | mhh that post is slightly disturbing |
| 09:10.18 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@dyn1240-141.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
| 09:10.29 | CM | morricone: I guess Burnout, outstressed and frustrated having to do everything but what he's supposed to work with |
| 09:10.36 | woglinde | morricone we can only guess |
| 09:11.01 | woglinde | maybay its mean harald is frustaed that he didnt programm a long time |
| 09:11.20 | woglinde | because of managing other stuffs |
| 09:11.58 | CM | He complained a lot about that in a previous post http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/28/#20070628-openmoko_update |
| 09:12.19 | notserpe | imho, laforge is anything but "just replaceable"... his participation and reputation are part of why I've such a keen interest in OM. |
| 09:12.30 | buz | maybe taiwanese are driving him crazy |
| 09:12.51 | woglinde | or chinese mainland |
| 09:13.17 | buz | i think i could understand, when i was in HK i wondered about it myself often enough |
| 09:13.59 | _alcik_ | or both... :-) totaly diffrent attitude to different stuff... |
| 09:14.27 | _alcik_ | than western people |
| 09:15.08 | buz | which often leads to the feeling that people around you somehow lack common sense |
| 09:15.22 | buz | (which is true even in a totally neutral way) |
| 09:15.46 | _alcik_ | buz exactly... because they think sometimes totaly different |
| 09:16.15 | buz | then again, the same can happen in some countries generally subsumed to be western too |
| 09:17.09 | *** join/#openmoko zxmbi77 (n=zxmbi77@u-173-c114.cs.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 09:17.31 | _alcik_ | buz o yeah.... |
| 09:17.32 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77_ (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 09:18.10 | woglinde | so communication must forced every time |
| 09:19.36 | Elrond | Anway, I need to go to work. |
| 09:19.45 | _alcik_ | me too |
| 09:19.50 | _alcik_ | by |
| 09:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko mikini (i=c026c50e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-fe468bc159e4d36a) |
| 09:25.23 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@149.254.192.192) |
| 09:27.02 | mikini | Insanity |
| 09:27.02 | mikini | By Harald "LaF0rge" Welte |
| 09:27.02 | mikini | If you want a status update on OpenMoko: I'm at a point where I won't go to the office again because I know the agression inside myself will turn into physically hurting someone there. |
| 09:27.13 | *** join/#openmoko goodfoot (i=user@gateway/tor/x-286dbde00af93206) |
| 09:27.19 | mikini | anyone know what this is about? |
| 09:28.03 | jgm | No idea, but it's somewhat worrying |
| 09:28.21 | goodfoot | What are you talking about? |
| 09:28.34 | Agrajag- | whoa, crazy |
| 09:28.47 | Agrajag- | goodfoot: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11#20070711-insanity |
| 09:29.08 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:29.30 | hrw | I wonder how many people will share that post with us here today |
| 09:29.38 | woglinde | hrw all |
| 09:29.41 | jgm | Probably most of them :) |
| 09:29.48 | woglinde | fear of not getting a moko |
| 09:29.52 | woglinde | aeh neo |
| 09:30.01 | jgm | More fear of not having any decent software to run on it |
| 09:30.14 | goodfoot | Does the current version of neo have wifi? |
| 09:30.22 | woglinde | goodfoot no |
| 09:30.22 | Fatal | no |
| 09:30.29 | hrw | wifi? |
| 09:30.30 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 09:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:30.38 | goodfoot | thanks |
| 09:32.32 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:33.26 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-180-153.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 09:35.03 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host8-57-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:36.33 | jpcass | anyone know if that wifi chipset can act as an accesspoint, or is it just a station? |
| 09:38.02 | CM | My guess is that it depends on the drivers, but I don't know |
| 09:38.07 | woglinde | jpcass becaus the driver is gpl guess |
| 09:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko jg1 (n=jgm@149.254.192.192) |
| 09:38.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:CathodioN]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Translation]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Ruggedized]] [[Gsmd/ru]] [[Media_Content/ru]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] |
| 09:39.00 | mjr | the driver is but the chip itself has got a huge firmware that may restrict some things; in short, I dunno |
| 09:39.02 | stefan_schmidt | IIRC you need also firmware support for master mode |
| 09:39.09 | stefan_schmidt | Not sure though |
| 09:39.13 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:39.22 | woglinde | stefan_schmidt hm okay |
| 09:40.54 | mjr | so it's not a given that you can turn it into a gprs-sharing wifi ap :] |
| 09:41.08 | stefan_schmidt | We will see |
| 09:41.14 | mjr | that we will |
| 09:41.29 | jpcass | ive been using openwrt on my router for ages; it uses atheros chips (not sure which code) and uses madwifi driver to offer access and station... |
| 09:41.56 | hrw | jpcass: you have older atheros chips |
| 09:41.57 | mjr | totally different atheros |
| 09:42.15 | jpcass | just checked the router, its an atheros AR5213A chip... |
| 09:42.33 | mjr | and madwifi, relying on binary kernel modules, wouldn't have been an option |
| 09:42.53 | woglinde | jipp |
| 09:44.01 | *** join/#openmoko zxmbi77 (n=zxmbi77@u-173-c114.cs.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 09:44.43 | mjr | (not that the laptop/base station wifi chips would be appropriate for a device like this in any case) |
| 09:44.47 | andylockran | I got past the uboot problem in the mokomakefile only to hit another one with freetype - anyone having the same? |
| 09:45.05 | *** join/#openmoko tom_____ (i=tom@ares.opintanner.fi) |
| 09:46.13 | ToM- | Hi, I tried to compile moko from sources. When I try to do as described in the Zephyr tutorial, I get lots of errors. Most of the graphics are missing etc. |
| 09:47.55 | Shoragan | andylockran, i'll try to build it... |
| 09:48.05 | jpcass | mjr: thanks for the heads-up on the atheros chipset... |
| 09:48.54 | andylockran | Shoragan: it takes about 4 hours to get to where I'm currently at (and that's with a 24MBs connection) |
| 09:49.38 | Shoragan | andy, i've built it yesterday and there shouldn't be that many changes |
| 09:50.19 | goodfoot | Anyone got emacs working? |
| 09:50.38 | woglinde | lol |
| 09:50.39 | *** join/#openmoko niels_ (n=niels@2610ds3-fb.0.fullrate.dk) |
| 09:50.43 | woglinde | we already have an os |
| 09:53.46 | ewon | goodfoot: emacs - on a touch screen - are you psychotic? |
| 09:54.19 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=langenbu@malve.informatik.uni-bonn.de) |
| 09:54.27 | hrw | on SMALL touchscreen |
| 09:54.59 | woglinde | lol |
| 09:55.08 | woglinde | emacs with gesturee controll |
| 09:55.23 | woglinde | that would be nasty |
| 09:55.28 | univac | libstroke ;d |
| 09:56.12 | woglinde | coding and simluate lightsabre fight at the same time |
| 09:56.47 | ewanm89_laptop | I would prefer have vim. |
| 09:57.10 | Tob1 | does anyone know what's up with the newest planet.openmoko message? |
| 09:57.13 | Tob1 | " If you want a status update on OpenMoko: I'm at a point where I won't go to the office again because I know the agression inside myself will turn into physically hurting someone there." |
| 09:57.28 | woglinde | someone should change tob1 |
| 09:57.34 | woglinde | tob1 you are number 6 |
| 09:57.38 | woglinde | ups topic |
| 09:57.41 | moo_tang_clan | that doesn't sound good. |
| 09:58.52 | niels_ | Perhaps they should have time to sort it out themselves without too much community fuzz. |
| 10:00.42 | CM | andylockran: Have you tried to just restart it? |
| 10:01.12 | CM | andylockran: My first build failed 3 times, but all I had to do was restart it manually |
| 10:01.25 | ScaredyCat | lseems like a grossly immature thing to post.. if he has issues, deal with them internally... |
| 10:01.44 | ScaredyCat | I got my build down to 308 minutes |
| 10:01.47 | andylockran | CM: ctrl-c and start again? |
| 10:02.08 | CM | andylockran: bitbake didn't fail and stop? |
| 10:02.17 | woglinde | more orange |
| 10:02.19 | woglinde | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2806053950.html |
| 10:02.25 | andylockran | don't think so |
| 10:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko neonum6 (n=neonum6@2001:4b88:7000:f1ca:c0ca:1d3:14fd:1112) |
| 10:02.35 | ScaredyCat | if it didn't top... how do you know it's a problem ;) |
| 10:02.37 | CM | If it's just warnings, don't worry :) |
| 10:03.08 | andylockran | it stops |
| 10:03.09 | CM | There's plenty of warnings and "missing this and that" all over |
| 10:03.26 | andylockran | do_compile fails |
| 10:03.32 | CM | :-( |
| 10:03.34 | CM | Log? |
| 10:03.38 | ScaredyCat | with what error? |
| 10:04.09 | ScaredyCat | it's empty ;) |
| 10:04.14 | CM | :P |
| 10:04.18 | andylockran | how do I use pastebin? |
| 10:05.02 | andylockran | or shall I just post 7 lines in here? |
| 10:05.22 | hrw | ~pastebin |
| 10:05.23 | apt | rumour has it, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well |
| 10:05.32 | ScaredyCat | but only one... |
| 10:05.33 | hrw | andylockran: if you want to die then post here |
| 10:05.34 | ScaredyCat | not all :) |
| 10:05.49 | CM | hrw: Hehe |
| 10:06.07 | andylockran | ok, on pastebin.ca |
| 10:06.17 | andylockran | http://www.pastebin.ca/614066 |
| 10:06.48 | andylockran | hrw: I'm too young to die yet.. |
| 10:07.21 | woglinde | looks like path error |
| 10:07.25 | woglinde | somewhere |
| 10:07.33 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:07.46 | Placid | morning |
| 10:10.42 | woglinde | hm is gtk the reason why moko uses such old freetype version |
| 10:11.13 | woglinde | hm oh in oe too |
| 10:11.44 | Shoragan | andy, it compiles ok for me |
| 10:12.08 | andylockran | can I compile it individually.. |
| 10:12.28 | woglinde | bitbake freetype |
| 10:13.13 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFCE52.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:13.14 | *** join/#openmoko Hantilles (n=hantille@dslb-084-056-099-248.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:13.21 | andylockran | hmm... I don't appear to have a bitbake binary.. |
| 10:13.58 | CM | andylockran: http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/PossibleFailures |
| 10:15.11 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0FE40.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:15.40 | andylockran | ta |
| 10:18.10 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 10:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A5725F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:20.48 | ewanm89_laptop | How do I implement this patch for mokomakefile?: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=444 |
| 10:21.45 | Hantilles | I'd also be interested in this |
| 10:22.18 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, anyone running a fairly recent kernel would be. |
| 10:22.55 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 10:23.21 | Hantilles | hm, ok :) I just tried to build openmoko for the very first time, to have a look at the current status... |
| 10:23.23 | woglinde | ewan98 are you willing to understand openembedded? |
| 10:23.33 | woglinde | donwload the patch |
| 10:23.48 | woglinde | put in oedir/packages/perl/files |
| 10:23.57 | ewanm89_laptop | Done that, and I need to put it somewhere in the tree, thanks. |
| 10:24.03 | woglinde | edit packages/perl/perl-bla.bb |
| 10:24.10 | woglinde | to use the patch |
| 10:24.19 | woglinde | that is selfexplained |
| 10:24.32 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, makes sense (same as a gentoo ebuild). |
| 10:24.51 | woglinde | beware that you have problems when the oe tree is merged |
| 10:25.40 | ewanm89_laptop | so I need to put it in oe/ or openembedded/ ? |
| 10:25.46 | woglinde | install kdiff for 3 way merge if oe changes go to the moko branch |
| 10:26.11 | woglinde | dontknow how your oedir is named |
| 10:26.18 | woglinde | didntlook at mokomakefile |
| 10:26.31 | ewanm89_laptop | openembeded/ |
| 10:26.39 | ewanm89_laptop | openembedded/ |
| 10:26.42 | woglinde | yeah than packages/perl |
| 10:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko saaib (n=saaib@adsl-75-11-169-4.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 10:31.14 | *** join/#openmoko cninja_ (n=cninja@pcd266231.netvigator.com) |
| 10:38.19 | aloril | there has been worries about burnout for a while: I think laforge should get vacation and they should hire somebody to do admin/etc.. non GTA* driver stuff he has been doing |
| 10:38.37 | woglinde | aloril yes |
| 10:40.39 | ajmitch | yay, another build failure |
| 10:41.17 | blindcoder | hehe |
| 10:41.29 | blindcoder | I got some unique failures here, too :-) |
| 10:42.44 | Sup3rkiddo | can anyone point me to openmoko banner buttons..etc..i would love to have em in my blog |
| 10:44.23 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@M46aa.m.pppool.de) |
| 10:47.17 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: You can circumvent it by a symlink to /usr/src/linux/include/asm/page.h |
| 10:49.41 | aloril | mickeyl: laforge especially and you and all in core team have done incredible amount of stuff |
| 10:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@59.Red-83-42-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:51.25 | aloril | mickeyl: what about finding some really good admin to do various admin/etc.. non GTA* driver stuff LaF0rge has been doing? |
| 10:51.35 | aloril | and vacation too |
| 10:52.37 | mickeyl | nod thanks. laforge is in a critical situation. the best is to leave him alone when for a while. I have been working with him now for quite a while and the best thing is to allow him to focus on one task which then he is going to do 110% professional. This project has overmaxed him since all his skills were sucked by OM.... |
| 10:53.29 | aloril | mickeyl: right, I have been worried about burn-out for a while |
| 10:55.17 | CM | aloril: Yes, many have said it here too. ("Don't burn out" I mean) |
| 10:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@host86-138-108-235.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:56.02 | aloril | its important project and he wants it to succeed, but .. there is only so much one person can do |
| 10:56.46 | blindcoder | NOTE: package openmoko-devel-image-1.0-r0: task do_rootfs: started |
| 10:56.49 | blindcoder | is that good? |
| 10:56.49 | aloril | sure, might need more than 10 persons to do same job, but .. if you burn out that 10persons_in_one_body then you lose quite a lot |
| 10:56.56 | woglinde | yes |
| 10:57.02 | ajmitch | blindcoder: you've got further than I have |
| 10:57.11 | blindcoder | ajmitch: I ran into three problems on the way there |
| 10:57.18 | blindcoder | ajmitch: a) uboot (was fixed yesterday) |
| 10:57.31 | blindcoder | ajmitch: b+c) missing xx.mo files |
| 10:57.43 | blindcoder | uhh, coreutils |
| 10:57.46 | blindcoder | gotta love those |
| 10:57.57 | blindcoder | running their freshly compiled programs immediately after compiling |
| 10:58.06 | blindcoder | great for cross-compiling errors and glibc incompatibilities |
| 10:58.12 | ajmitch | yeah, conflicting type declaration with headers in /usr/include, pretty special |
| 10:58.30 | woglinde | hihi |
| 10:58.33 | aloril | 2007-02-14 02:49:06 <LaF0rge> sorry guys, I'm almost completely burned out. Haven't found time for the hairdresser, tax declarations, gpl enforcement, social life or anything. So please don't ask me to do anything but the bare mimimal absoulte neccessarry. |
| 10:58.46 | blindcoder | ah, yeah, and I also had a problem with a missing #define CHAR_BIT somewhere |
| 10:58.51 | aloril | incredible that he has lasted this long |
| 10:59.00 | woglinde | aloril oh thanks for the backlog |
| 10:59.20 | blindcoder | ajmitch: I'm running on 2.3.6 |
| 11:00.09 | woglinde | I should check if uclibc works with gtk |
| 11:00.13 | woglinde | and x |
| 11:00.21 | blindcoder | NOTE: build 200707111102: completed |
| 11:00.24 | blindcoder | YAY \o/ |
| 11:00.37 | ajmitch | I see that it's a fairly old copy of coreutils, too |
| 11:00.56 | ewanm89_laptop | woglinde: Patch didn't seem to work. |
| 11:01.08 | woglinde | ewan98 than do it bz hands |
| 11:01.16 | woglinde | the symlink |
| 11:01.26 | blindcoder | now let's find out how to put that into qemu |
| 11:01.40 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 11:01.46 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 11:01.52 | woglinde | blincoder that should be easy now |
| 11:01.56 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1988 |
| 11:01.57 | ewanm89_laptop | Um, it removed the changes from the file (monotone). |
| 11:02.19 | CM | (I reported the bug in the wrong bugzilla back then) |
| 11:02.24 | blindcoder | woglinde: yeah, if one knows how ;) |
| 11:02.25 | *** join/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 11:02.47 | CM | blindcoder: If you use the makefile, it's truly easy :D |
| 11:02.59 | blindcoder | CM: ah, yeah, just found it further down on the wikipage :) |
| 11:03.41 | blindcoder | just wondered, because I already have a qemu-neo1973 installed in /opt/openmoko/ |
| 11:03.58 | aloril | burnout worries: 2007-03-11 00:32:45 <CM> 2007-03-29 00:22:57 * CM 2007-05-31 19:00:49 * aloril2 2007-06-13 16:06:06 * aloril 2007-07-11 12:10:28 <CM> |
| 11:04.10 | CM | aloril: Heh |
| 11:04.32 | aloril | anyway, I guess '/.:ing' was last straw |
| 11:04.54 | aloril | (he flied to Taiwan at Monday) |
| 11:04.59 | CM | Or something more personally internally that we don't know of |
| 11:05.11 | blindcoder | or maybe he just got asked about 'openmoko status' by every f'ing blogger out there |
| 11:05.17 | CM | Internally at fic that is |
| 11:05.42 | blindcoder | one mail each, plus one mail ten minutes later by every tenth because there was no reply yet |
| 11:07.57 | aloril | is there a way to buy virtual beer? |
| 11:08.12 | SpeedEvil | virtual paypal? |
| 11:08.31 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: Wouldn't the same fix they are using in gentoo work? |
| 11:08.53 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: Can't see why it shouldn't.. :) |
| 11:09.09 | ewanm89_laptop | They have a working patch in the ebuilds. |
| 11:09.34 | blindcoder | okay, gotta use the one in /opt/openmoko/ manually or it won't start |
| 11:10.38 | mjr | yah, kudos to LaF0rge, and speedy but unhurried recovery |
| 11:11.11 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: I'll diff it against this patch: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=444 |
| 11:11.35 | woglinde | blindcoder you know laforge lives in berlin |
| 11:11.47 | blindcoder | woglinde: yeah |
| 11:12.15 | blindcoder | woglinde: and according to evoc and unicorn- my 'stammkneipe' is very good :) |
| 11:12.28 | saaib | arachnid, Nick have you started anything related to that gps app? let me know. |
| 11:12.29 | woglinde | I need lunch |
| 11:12.37 | woglinde | bye |
| 11:12.38 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: It just drops the include <asm/page.h> line |
| 11:12.42 | blindcoder | woglinde: an guadn |
| 11:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko Baptiste (n=Baptiste@gra94-3-81-56-80-13.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:13.11 | Baptiste | hi |
| 11:13.18 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: So it's not actually needed, there seems to be a change in th kernel. |
| 11:14.12 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: You saw the comment from Jamie Lenehan in the oe bugzilla? |
| 11:14.18 | CM | "We could patch the include of asm/page.h out of perl but I'd be worried that |
| 11:14.20 | CM | maybe this really is needed for older glibc/kernel-headers?" |
| 11:14.55 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, I'll see what the gentoo patch does. |
| 11:15.42 | ajmitch | yay, I get a build failure of coreutils (6.0) completely separate from openmoko, so it's an even better problem |
| 11:15.58 | Clint | was coreutils 6.0 ever released? |
| 11:16.19 | ajmitch | not sure, I'm using the version from debian experimental |
| 11:16.37 | Clint | you might want to go with 6.9 instead |
| 11:17.23 | blindcoder | heh, screen calibration in qemu ;) that amuses me to no end |
| 11:17.50 | ajmitch | right, 6.0 looks a bit old there |
| 11:19.04 | Clint | embarrassingly old |
| 11:20.31 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tiger_zs@222.66.81.98) |
| 11:20.36 | aloril | 2007-07-11 11:33:07 <-- LaF0rge has quit ("**** ***") 2007-07-11 11:46:57 <_alcik_> have U seen last openmoko planet entry? http://planet.openmoko.org/ |
| 11:21.01 | SpeedEvil | virtual paypal? |
| 11:21.15 | Sup3rkiddo | lol? |
| 11:22.04 | Richard | Hi, I use madplay to play mp3 music, and find it uses 58% of cpu. any patches to impove the performance? |
| 11:22.14 | blindcoder | this may sound like a bit of a stupid question now, but... is the on-screen keyboard already implemented? |
| 11:22.21 | Richard | My cpu freq is 200M HZ |
| 11:22.22 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 11:22.40 | hrw | blindcoder: it is |
| 11:22.45 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: okay, so, how do I get it to show up in qemu? |
| 11:22.52 | SpeedEvil | Richard: there were reports that mplayer uses 25% |
| 11:23.08 | CM | blindcoder: Click on the light gray box upper left |
| 11:23.38 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: This is the gentoo bugreport on the issue: http://bugs.gentoo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=168312 |
| 11:23.48 | blindcoder | CM: ah! great, thanks :) |
| 11:23.50 | Richard | SpeedEvil: does mplayer also use libmad? and what is the cpu freq under test? |
| 11:23.52 | Baptiste | someone has received its openmoko ? |
| 11:23.53 | aloril | Baptiste: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:24.38 | SpeedEvil | Richard: it was similar to the neo. And apparently the default mp3 codec. |
| 11:24.48 | SpeedEvil | Baptiste: not yet. |
| 11:24.53 | SpeedEvil | It's going to be some days. |
| 11:24.58 | Baptiste | SpeedEvil, okay |
| 11:25.06 | Baptiste | just wanted to have some feedbacks ;) |
| 11:25.16 | blindcoder | okay, the first thing I need to do now is teach dvorak to that keyboard |
| 11:25.32 | *** part/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 11:27.40 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Which leffe do you prefer? Blonde or brune? |
| 11:27.51 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Should I bring some for you from .fr? |
| 11:27.53 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: They just take out that section too. |
| 11:28.00 | mickeyl | blonde |
| 11:28.05 | mickeyl | just like girls |
| 11:28.07 | mickeyl | cough |
| 11:28.09 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: I know, that's what I said ;) |
| 11:28.09 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: yes, please! :) |
| 11:28.16 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: How many? |
| 11:28.25 | blindcoder | mickeyl: ground up and stored in the freezer? *cough* |
| 11:28.26 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: one 6-pack will do |
| 11:28.28 | Baptiste | the question "why is the openmoko so... not sexy/ugly" has already been discussed ? (osrry for troll but I have not found that on the wiki) |
| 11:28.30 | blindcoder | ah no, that was coffee ;) |
| 11:28.34 | mickeyl | blindcoder: hehe |
| 11:28.36 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ok |
| 11:28.49 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: cool, thanks! |
| 11:29.30 | Sup3rkiddo | mickeyl, question, i saw that mokoninja video on youtube...what kinda keyboard was that..was dreaming about it all night |
| 11:29.32 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: pas de probleme |
| 11:29.51 | Fatal | alan cox talk? where? |
| 11:30.10 | stefan_schmidt | Fatal: http://www.rmll.info/article179.html?lang=en |
| 11:30.18 | Fatal | thank you |
| 11:30.48 | zecke | mickeyl: ? |
| 11:30.52 | mickeyl | Sup3rkiddo: hehe, that's the Microsoft Natural Keyboard 4000 |
| 11:30.56 | ScaredyCat | that was a horrible keyboard |
| 11:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko slider_ (n=foo@pD957768B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:31.03 | Sup3rkiddo | mickeyl, you evil...grrrr |
| 11:31.17 | mickeyl | ms makes fine hardware |
| 11:31.23 | Fatal | meh, live streaming page switched to french on me :P |
| 11:31.25 | mickeyl | using their keyboards and mice since years |
| 11:31.40 | Sup3rkiddo | ScaredyCat, i liked that...might help me to *ahem* attract some females |
| 11:31.49 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: As long as they stay for keyboards and mice... |
| 11:31.52 | ScaredyCat | the natural kb is the mist unnatural thing |
| 11:32.21 | ScaredyCat | sometimes I can type too... |
| 11:32.24 | Fatal | god, I love my MSNK4k |
| 11:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5725F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:32.58 | *** join/#openmoko kerthale (n=kerthale@g223161.upc-g.chello.nl) |
| 11:33.52 | ScaredyCat | :o lol : http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone |
| 11:34.56 | *** join/#openmoko jens_ (n=q@C2836.c.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 11:38.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_Events]] [[Community_Events/it]] [[Coding_Guidelines]] [[Coding_Guidelines/it]] [[Templates]] [[Templates/it]] [[IPhone/it]] [[Group_Order]] [[Talk:Neo1973]] |
| 11:41.43 | alphaone | morninig |
| 11:41.53 | alphaone | s/ig/g/ |
| 11:42.21 | alphaone | Does anyone receive mails from openmoko? |
| 11:43.08 | alphaone | If I compare my inbox to the web archives there is a slight discrepancy... |
| 11:44.26 | aloril | alphaone: nope (and many others have said this too a while ago) |
| 11:45.21 | alphaone | Okay, so I shouldn't bother subscribing again. I'll just wait |
| 11:50.50 | slider_ | maybe there's a connection between haralds blog entry and the ml-problems ;) |
| 11:51.19 | aloril | slider_: more like he has had not time to fix it ... |
| 11:51.28 | andylockran | yeah, the lists have been a bit tempremental of the last few days |
| 11:51.35 | ewon | http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone |
| 11:51.41 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@87.224.31.38) |
| 11:51.51 | SpeedEvil | Anyone in the EU still doing a group buy? |
| 11:52.21 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:52.26 | SpeedEvil | Just managed to get money together for a neo - but not the full shipping too. |
| 11:52.49 | SpeedEvil | And I've got all sorts of hardware plans, which are kind-of-stalled. |
| 11:53.11 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-180-153.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 11:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@omsk.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 11:56.25 | *** part/#openmoko Baptiste (n=Baptiste@gra94-3-81-56-80-13.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:57.53 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.103.255) |
| 11:58.02 | blindcoder | hmm |
| 11:58.06 | blindcoder | I fail at quilt :( |
| 11:58.17 | blindcoder | I did quilt add blafasel.patch |
| 11:58.21 | blindcoder | err |
| 11:58.25 | blindcoder | quilt new blafasel.patch |
| 11:58.32 | blindcoder | quilt add some/file |
| 11:58.35 | blindcoder | vim some/file |
| 11:58.53 | blindcoder | quilt refresh |
| 11:59.03 | blindcoder | and the patch now just diffs against /dev/null |
| 11:59.18 | woglinde | why you dont di quilt edit? and set EDITOR var to vim |
| 11:59.49 | blindcoder | woglinde: err.. because that's not in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 11:59.58 | nohar | if the file is created it's normal |
| 12:00.11 | woglinde | quilt help |
| 12:00.50 | blindcoder | nohar: the file exists |
| 12:01.01 | blindcoder | nohar: --- some/file and +++ /dev/null |
| 12:01.04 | CM | blindcoder: Please update the wiki if you figure out how it should be |
| 12:01.09 | blindcoder | CM: will do |
| 12:01.28 | SpeedEvil | What is the weight of the Neo package? |
| 12:01.32 | SpeedEvil | and size? |
| 12:01.40 | SpeedEvil | (the shipped box - not the phone) |
| 12:01.49 | ynezz | SpeedEvil: where are you from? |
| 12:01.52 | SpeedEvil | approx is OK if anyone knows |
| 12:01.54 | SpeedEvil | UK |
| 12:02.10 | ynezz | hm, it makes no sense then to order with .cz guys :) |
| 12:02.35 | woglinde | bye again |
| 12:04.09 | CM | SpeedEvil: Just guessing, I'd say a bit over 1kg. (Trying to remember the weight of previously recieved packages..) |
| 12:04.22 | SpeedEvil | I'm just trying to work out shipping options. |
| 12:04.43 | CM | Got a box with 1hd, 1 grapics card and a tv card yesterday, and that was 2.3kg |
| 12:05.20 | TRIsoft | CM: Remember that "real" weight doesn't interest much for airfreight. Always check the dimensional weight too. |
| 12:05.48 | CM | TRIsoft: True. I'm guessing they'll chose the smallest possible box |
| 12:06.22 | TRIsoft | CM: But beside from the hackers lunchbox, the volume weight is higher. |
| 12:06.31 | blindcoder | ah |
| 12:06.32 | blindcoder | got it |
| 12:06.45 | blindcoder | CM: I used absolute paths, that confused quilt |
| 12:06.54 | blindcoder | CM: now I used relative paths, and it works |
| 12:06.58 | blindcoder | will add the wiki accordingly |
| 12:07.06 | CM | blindcoder: Ah, great :) |
| 12:09.14 | CM | OpenMoko menu that is |
| 12:09.30 | blindcoder | CM: there's not, but there's a 'Terminal' |
| 12:09.41 | CM | I've used the terminal |
| 12:10.02 | *** join/#openmoko evanpro (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 12:10.07 | CM | But sometimes you'd like something quicker to just "Run" |
| 12:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 12:10.34 | blindcoder | yeah |
| 12:10.36 | evanpro | So, when I submit my form to direct.openmoko.com, I just get a blank page back. |
| 12:10.43 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 12:10.48 | CM | evanpro: There |
| 12:10.56 | CM | s beem seveal issues with the store |
| 12:11.02 | evanpro | OK |
| 12:11.03 | blindcoder | now let's see if my gtk knowledge and understanding is sufficient... |
| 12:11.10 | evanpro | Is there another way to make an order? |
| 12:11.19 | CM | Usually it's the State name, that needs to be capitalized |
| 12:11.36 | evanpro | Actually, I'm in Canada, so it's a province |
| 12:11.36 | CM | Or use a two-letter name |
| 12:11.43 | evanpro | OK, let's see if that works |
| 12:11.53 | jpcass | evanpro: I ordered a couple of days ago and got a blank email reply with an RT number (~2200) - no update yet on whether my order got through ;-( |
| 12:12.01 | *** join/#openmoko slux (n=slux@host32-233-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:12.08 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it. |
| 12:12.15 | evanpro | Oh, sweet |
| 12:12.15 | SpeedEvil | _nobody_ has further confirmations. |
| 12:12.19 | SpeedEvil | Only that email |
| 12:12.24 | evanpro | Quebec -> QC worked |
| 12:12.31 | CM | evanpro: Good :) |
| 12:12.52 | CM | SpeedEvil: I haven't heard of anyone getting any mail either |
| 12:12.56 | *** join/#openmoko Chairboy (n=chatzill@c-24-22-81-82.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 12:13.31 | ScaredyCat | which one did you go for SpeedEvil? base or advanced? |
| 12:13.56 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@87.224.31.38) |
| 12:14.05 | blindcoder | CM: after I've done 'quilt refresh' will a 'make clean-package-openmoko-messages' suffice or do I have to make known the existence of my patch anywhere? |
| 12:14.07 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: at the moment, I'm trying to arrange group buys or things so I can. |
| 12:14.33 | ScaredyCat | ahh, but are you going for the advanced |
| 12:14.36 | CM | blindcoder: I'm not sure, but I think quilt should handle that |
| 12:14.37 | ScaredyCat | weight wise |
| 12:14.49 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: prolly not. |
| 12:14.51 | CM | blindcoder: Try and see :) |
| 12:14.56 | slux | hi guys! where i can find some info about openmoko smartphone? :) |
| 12:14.57 | aloril | slux: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:15.03 | SpeedEvil | slux On the wiki! |
| 12:15.09 | SpeedEvil | (above) |
| 12:15.22 | slux | :o thanks! |
| 12:15.24 | *** part/#openmoko Hantilles (n=hantille@dslb-084-056-099-248.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:15.43 | slux | but what about the integration with my linux box? :) |
| 12:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 12:15.51 | *** part/#openmoko rd__ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 12:16.13 | slux | :) ok, im reading all FAQ! i love this! |
| 12:16.23 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 12:16.34 | slux | i'm italian and im waiting! |
| 12:19.21 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@bbclaptop.student.umd.edu) |
| 12:22.30 | hrw | slux: and you are shouting? ah those italians.. |
| 12:23.06 | hrw | ;) |
| 12:23.12 | slux | :o tutti italiani? |
| 12:23.18 | hrw | no |
| 12:24.51 | blindcoder | it's not applying my patch :( |
| 12:26.46 | slux | nice! qemu can emulate this xD |
| 12:27.31 | CM | slux: Fetch the MokoMakefile and follow the instructions in the wiki |
| 12:27.43 | CM | slux: Takes a while to build it all though... |
| 12:27.53 | slux | :) it's fantastic! |
| 12:27.56 | Sup3rkiddo | looong while |
| 12:29.20 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 12:34.29 | saaib | Is anywhere on the wiki tips to speedup the startup of qemu> |
| 12:34.30 | saaib | ? |
| 12:35.44 | CM | saaib: It's awfully slow.. I'd like a tip too :) |
| 12:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-114-114.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:36.23 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: I linked page.h in the end. |
| 12:36.27 | zecke | get a faster CPU? |
| 12:36.30 | CM | OM in MAKE and Hackzine: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/07/openmoko_300_linuxpowered.html?CMP=OTC-0D6B48984890 |
| 12:37.21 | CM | Huge ammount of publicity :) |
| 12:37.39 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 12:37.52 | ewanm89_laptop | I suppose kqemu wouldn't work as it's emulating a different arch? |
| 12:39.48 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: Everyone is having trouble with quilt. We need a good tutorial in the wiki, oe or om doesn't matter. |
| 12:41.09 | blindcoder | CM: I managed to get a .patch from quilt, but I'm not entirely sure if it has been applied. |
| 12:41.18 | blindcoder | CM: I'm currently booting qemu to see if anything changed |
| 12:42.23 | hrw | re |
| 12:42.34 | hrw | ewanm89_laptop: right - kqemu will not help |
| 12:43.09 | ewanm89_laptop | Yes a quilt tutorial is needed. |
| 12:43.37 | nohar | in debian /usr/share/doc/quilt/quilt.html |
| 12:44.15 | blindcoder | I only got a quilt.pdf here :-( |
| 12:44.29 | nohar | same thing |
| 12:44.32 | blindcoder | I'm currently only ssh'd into the machine I'm developing on |
| 12:48.17 | blindcoder | nope, doesn't look like it's been applied |
| 12:48.25 | CM | :( |
| 12:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 12:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko wibbit (n=douglasf@SAGW-PRIMARY.ARC.COM) |
| 12:50.04 | ewanm89_laptop | pdftohtml ? |
| 12:50.12 | ewanm89_laptop | or pdftotext ? |
| 12:50.38 | blindcoder | pdfroff? |
| 12:50.42 | blindcoder | pdf2ps? |
| 12:51.34 | wibbit | You know, comments like LaF0rge's make me wonder what is going on over at OpenMoko offices |
| 12:51.41 | mmazur | blitzkrieg |
| 12:51.47 | mmazur | Or a ninja attack by the competition. |
| 12:51.58 | ewanm89_laptop | Yeah, pdf3ps will work better, as long as you have a cosole based ps viewer. |
| 12:51.58 | summatusmentis | wibbit: comments? |
| 12:52.12 | wibbit | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11#20070711-insanity |
| 12:53.04 | summatusmentis | I would assume just stress |
| 12:53.29 | wibbit | summatusmentis: I would hope so. |
| 12:53.33 | blindcoder | *grr* I hate programs not output stuff to stdout but to an arbitrary file of their choice |
| 12:53.39 | wibbit | summatusmentis: I am glad though, that the phone costs as much as it does |
| 12:54.10 | wibbit | summatusmentis: it significantly reduces the dummies that go and buy it and then complain it's "broke", you know like all the people who complain about "test" linux releases being broken :) |
| 12:54.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r2376 10/trunk/oe/packages/gpsd/ (gpsd.inc gpsd_2.34.bb): |
| 12:54.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Solve gpsd build error by backporting fix from OE |
| 12:54.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2531). |
| 12:54.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Keep oe-sync because this fix is already in OE. |
| 12:54.32 | blindcoder | hmm, ps2ascii does nothing at all :( |
| 12:54.48 | summatusmentis | wibbit: I'm sure there will be plenty of that... in the scheme of phones it wasn't _that_ pricey |
| 12:54.49 | SpeedEvil | xpdf? |
| 12:55.04 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: no X right now, no way to get the pdf from the computer either |
| 12:55.05 | wibbit | summatusmentis: Yah, this is true |
| 12:55.10 | stefan_schmidt | Shoragan: Welcome on board :) |
| 12:55.14 | Shoragan | :) |
| 12:55.18 | wibbit | It's kinda being stuck between a rock and a hard place. |
| 12:55.30 | SpeedEvil | pdftotext? |
| 12:55.41 | wibbit | On one hand, putting it out there for development, but not "tarnishing" it's name from a consumer perspective. |
| 12:55.52 | CM | blindcoder: Just download it to your local comp and open in acrobat or evince or whatever :) |
| 12:56.00 | wibbit | I wonder if the sales team, who process the orders could go back to the buying going "erm, you do realise...." |
| 12:56.34 | SpeedEvil | blindcoder: scp? kermit? |
| 12:56.48 | summatusmentis | wibbit: I feel like the need to release these machines for dev work was potentially overdone |
| 12:56.52 | ewanm89_laptop | scp host:/path/to/source/ host:/path/to/target/ |
| 12:57.06 | ewanm89_laptop | Ignore host: if local :) |
| 12:57.09 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: some developers will be spurred on by hardware. |
| 12:57.21 | summatusmentis | from what I understand(I'm not a dev), most of it can be done in the emulator |
| 12:57.22 | mickeyl | (re. Laforge) i don't know whether i should recommend to write him some "keep up buddy, you're doing cool stuff" mail or whether this will put even more pressure on him shrug |
| 12:57.25 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: you think so? |
| 12:57.46 | summatusmentis | mickeyl: it's stress then? |
| 12:57.52 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: and then there are those working on hardware, for which in some cases it's required. |
| 12:57.59 | wibbit | summatusmentis: I suppose if there is not that greate a developer community, and/or you can do almost as much development from within a virtual environment, then you'd be right |
| 12:58.05 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: well of course, yes |
| 12:58.15 | mickeyl | stress + not being able to control everything in a large company as FIC |
| 12:58.36 | mickeyl | friction losses. the whole shipping process is incredibly complicated |
| 12:58.41 | wibbit | Though I'm a total stranger to this community, I would like to second SpeedEvil's sentiments |
| 12:58.53 | SpeedEvil | Is it basically that you used to be a more or less isolated team, and now are not, though there may be more 'support |
| 12:58.54 | SpeedEvil | '? |
| 12:59.28 | summatusmentis | mickeyl: I see, well, if you see him, and if it's opportune, I'm sure the entire comunity echoes the "keep up the good work" sentiments |
| 12:59.34 | CM | mickeyl: Be careful you too, and the rest of the OM guys. We know you're all under a lot of pressure. |
| 12:59.40 | mickeyl | with all the side firefighting that distracted us from doing our work, it's that the more people are interested in the Neo the more depressed we are that we could deliver so few |
| 12:59.50 | CM | Hope Sean is keeping up too, he seems totally relentless |
| 13:00.03 | mickeyl | few, as in software and hardware platform maturity |
| 13:00.11 | mickeyl | well, Sean is Mr. optimism |
| 13:00.17 | mickeyl | Harald is Mr. pessimism |
| 13:00.20 | mickeyl | i'm mr. stable |
| 13:00.24 | CM | Hehe |
| 13:00.26 | mickeyl | so that's a fairly good match |
| 13:00.34 | mmazur | Having a public press release was probably a bad idea :) |
| 13:00.40 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: IMO - at this hardware launch personally I wasn't expecting much more than an X box, with some partially working software. |
| 13:00.52 | SpeedEvil | Which it looks like it pretty much is. |
| 13:00.54 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: good. that's because you understand |
| 13:00.56 | *** part/#openmoko freskog_work (n=fredriks@hst3.eget.fi) |
| 13:00.57 | SpeedEvil | So I'm happy. |
| 13:01.00 | blindcoder | CM, SpeedEvil: like I said, currently not possible |
| 13:01.03 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: i'm afraid you are a minority :) |
| 13:01.05 | blindcoder | but I have the patches |
| 13:01.06 | CM | blindcoder: http://balloonboard.org/balloonwiki/QuiltHowto |
| 13:01.17 | blindcoder | now I just need to have them applied during make openmoko-devel-image |
| 13:01.26 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-90-105.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 13:01.29 | CM | blindcoder: That guide is totally unrelated to om/oe, but it's a guide with steps at least :) |
| 13:01.32 | mmazur | Well, the hardware is supposed to be fully functional sans those few pieces it'll be missing, right? |
| 13:01.53 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: I suspect so. I hope the majority of people buying phones don't have expectations of getting a working phone. |
| 13:02.14 | mickeyl | i sincerely hope so |
| 13:02.20 | mickeyl | that's why i put up the blog entry |
| 13:02.21 | CM | blindcoder: Ah.. Hmm.. Maybe something more is needed in bitbake then, if you have all the patches in. |
| 13:02.23 | blindcoder | CM: yeah, I got that all done already |
| 13:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 13:02.32 | wibbit | SpeedEvil: One thing having done it this way, is that the OpenMoko lads (ladets?) are also able to flesh out the rest of the infrastructure, not just the actual phone. Though, I am some what surprised that more of this not actually being done from within FIC, it begs the question what help they are giving. Though I am sure there also a hell of a lot of the behind the scenes work that they can helpw ith. |
| 13:02.35 | blindcoder | CM: exactly, that's what I'm currently searching for |
| 13:02.58 | SpeedEvil | wibbit: they are providing open hardware. With actual kernel drivers. |
| 13:03.04 | mickeyl | anyway, I'm going to grab something for lunch. thanks for your support, guys! |
| 13:03.06 | SpeedEvil | wibbit: and a basic collection of APIs. |
| 13:03.10 | CM | blindcoder: Wait.. You might have to do a complete rebuild somehow, or did you try that? |
| 13:03.12 | SpeedEvil | This is _important_ |
| 13:03.20 | CM | bb -c or something like that |
| 13:03.41 | SpeedEvil | Having to hack on hardware and reverse-engineer, wastes lots and lots of dev time. |
| 13:03.45 | CM | mickey|bbl: Enjoy a long and peaceful lunch! :D |
| 13:03.51 | summatusmentis | CM, afaik it's bitbake -c rebuild |
| 13:04.21 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: very true. Dev time that can be used to 'polish' on the end project |
| 13:04.22 | CM | summatusmentis: Sounds right, thanks |
| 13:04.32 | hrw | fsck. my neo booted into simple shell |
| 13:04.53 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 13:05.16 | wibbit | SpeedEvil: Yah, I appreciate the significance of open hardware, and where not possible, open API's, one of the reason I am really looking forward to the phone, when a more consumer orientated phone is out. |
| 13:05.22 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: and some overall vision of what it should look like. Which helps to avoid people going off at wild tangents. |
| 13:05.23 | sannes | Anyone heard anything about sales numbers? as in: is it over or under FICs openmoko/neo1973s teams estimates for developer phones? |
| 13:05.39 | SpeedEvil | sannes: reportedly they are all sold out for the first batch. |
| 13:05.51 | SpeedEvil | sannes: So will need to kick off a new batch soon. |
| 13:06.06 | wibbit | I'd be curious to see the server load graph's for yesterday :) |
| 13:06.27 | blindcoder | CM: I did make clean-package-openembedded-messages |
| 13:06.40 | blindcoder | CM: and then make openmoko-devel-image |
| 13:06.45 | blindcoder | CM: and it did rebuild -messages |
| 13:06.47 | sannes | I have a couple of (nondevs) friends that I have been telling about all the cool stuff that is going on.. they just can't wait until october :) |
| 13:07.04 | summatusmentis | at least they're waiting till october :-) |
| 13:07.05 | SpeedEvil | 'October' - it may be a codename :) |
| 13:07.27 | sannes | SpeedEvil: for march 2008 :P |
| 13:07.35 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: get coding, then it won't be :-D |
| 13:07.44 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: I plan to. |
| 13:08.07 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: and making hardware add-ons, to get people able to code for GTA02 |
| 13:08.35 | summatusmentis | are the addons really necessary to code for it? |
| 13:08.52 | SpeedEvil | No - but to code for accelerometers, it helps to have them in the phone. |
| 13:09.00 | sannes | summatusmentis: well, gta01 is worth little to them without any software and wifi... I mean users, what are they any good for? :P |
| 13:09.20 | hrw | ~users |
| 13:09.22 | apt | so this is what we get for sharing our unpaid volunteer work with you? complaints and accuses? <irony> well done, this clearly supports our motivation to continue working on open source projects. </irony> |
| 13:09.43 | CM | Hehe |
| 13:10.09 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 13:10.22 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: that makes sense |
| 13:10.34 | sannes | summatusmentis: only way to get coding experience is to code you know :P |
| 13:10.44 | summatusmentis | sannes: I know, I know |
| 13:10.54 | *** join/#openmoko mario_ (n=mario@132-222.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 13:11.01 | summatusmentis | but I feel like in a project trying to move quickly, my newb questions would get in the way |
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| 13:12.04 | Viko | Uhm... I think the first person to blend his Neo might get more enemies than the iPhone blender... |
| 13:12.10 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: if they are newb coding questions, they may or may not be better answered in the appropriate channel. |
| 13:12.13 | SpeedEvil | blend? |
| 13:12.23 | SpeedEvil | #c or whatever |
| 13:12.36 | wibbit | Viko: Well the iPhone guy, probably realised he just gone done :) and did it out of frustration |
| 13:12.38 | Viko | SpeedEvil: *willitblend* |
| 13:12.49 | SpeedEvil | Viko: ? |
| 13:12.59 | CM | SpeedEvil: http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone |
| 13:13.00 | juco | http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone |
| 13:13.12 | Viko | SpeedEvil: You might like it :D |
| 13:13.13 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 13:13.22 | SpeedEvil | Hardware destruction. |
| 13:13.46 | CM | I like the black smoke comming out of the blender afterwards... |
| 13:13.47 | sannes | summatusmentis: most answers lies with the code, start small .. I mean, I havn't looked at any of the neo specific code at all and when I do it will always be hard in the beginning .. |
| 13:14.04 | Viko | I think "destruction" might be to weak a word... |
| 13:14.16 | Viko | s/to/too |
| 13:14.38 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: well, they'd be newb OSS coding questions. I have minimal C/C++ coding experience, and I can read most code, and figure it out. It's the _writing_ of the code, and the whole GTK/dbus/etc. stuff that I have no experience in |
| 13:14.43 | summatusmentis | sannes: fair enough |
| 13:15.04 | sannes | maybe we should get fic to put in a steel plate or something so it can't be put in a blender :P |
| 13:15.14 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 13:15.22 | CM | summatusmentis: You're not alone with that, and there's plenty of simple tutorials just to get started. :) |
| 13:15.31 | Viko | :D |
| 13:16.11 | summatusmentis | CM: true... |
| 13:16.49 | CM | summatusmentis: I haven't done any c coding in gtk in the last 4 years, I'll start simple too :) |
| 13:17.10 | summatusmentis | my experience in #angstrom has been though, when I start looking at a problem(bug, etc.) someone fixes it before I even fully understand where the problem is occurring |
| 13:17.50 | ewanm89_laptop | summatusmentis: We all need to learn something in some area, I haven't coded to much gtk for a while now either. |
| 13:18.13 | summatusmentis | yeah, but you all consider yourselves competent coders :-) |
| 13:18.37 | ewanm89_laptop | I'm good at core aglorithms but not at all the gui stuff. |
| 13:18.51 | Viko | summatusmentis: I think *not* considering yourself a competent coder is a great way to start elarning :) |
| 13:19.20 | summatusmentis | Viko: :-D |
| 13:21.10 | summatusmentis | Once I get my MacBook(hopefully soon), then I'll setup OE/OM |
| 13:21.25 | summatusmentis | and see what I can do, for now, I'll be a cheerleader |
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| 13:23.13 | ewanm89_laptop | So what text editor do people here prefer? |
| 13:23.37 | madwoota | copy con: |
| 13:23.48 | summatusmentis | ewanm89_laptop: in general? vim |
| 13:23.54 | inz | ewan, trying to start a religious war? |
| 13:24.02 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 13:24.16 | wibbit | ewanm89_laptop: vim, but I'm not a developer |
| 13:24.22 | blindcoder | *grrrr |
| 13:24.29 | blindcoder | how the fuck is this supposed to be done? |
| 13:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-129-200.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 13:24.31 | summatusmentis | ewanm89_laptop: actually, let me rephrase that, I like vim for general use |
| 13:25.12 | ewanm89_laptop | inz: No, just asking, as I'm a vim guy but some freinds got me learning emacs. I still type vim out of instinct. |
| 13:25.41 | ewanm89_laptop | And I prefer vim. |
| 13:25.57 | inz | ewan, those are no friends, fiends would be more the word |
| 13:26.04 | inz | friends don't let friends use emacs |
| 13:26.10 | hrw | vi is by default (busybox version) |
| 13:26.12 | madwoota | i always wondered if people simply force themselves to use vim because its 'l33t' |
| 13:26.32 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 13:26.51 | empty_mind | we got order id of 3054, what is the actual order id |
| 13:26.59 | thomasg_ | I use gvim because it's as easy to use as nano is, but with some shortcuts (dd,...) it's very cool and fast to use |
| 13:27.03 | ewanm89_laptop | "I tried both at first, I couldn't work out how to quit emacs, so I use vim" |
| 13:27.35 | thomasg_ | but on terminals I still use nano, for basic editing. |
| 13:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko Terinjokes (n=spader@wikinews/Terinjokes) |
| 13:27.50 | ewanm89_laptop | hrw: So it wouldn't be difficult to get full vim running? |
| 13:28.15 | saaib | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:28.36 | ewanm89_laptop | saaib: But that is a java editor? |
| 13:28.55 | ewanm89_laptop | s/editor/IDE/ |
| 13:29.00 | saaib | ewanm89_laptop, eclipse can work as an IDE also with help of some plugins |
| 13:29.17 | ewanm89_laptop | saaib: even with c? |
| 13:29.21 | wibbit | madwoota: I would have thought emacs was more "l33t" that vim. |
| 13:29.32 | ewanm89_laptop | vim can be quite an IDE. |
| 13:29.34 | hrw | ewanm89_laptop: ipkg install vim usually will be enough |
| 13:29.35 | saaib | apt, java based, but can code on C, C++, Python, Perl, etc |
| 13:29.36 | apt | Exception in thread "main" java.lang.NoClassDefFoundError: based, but can code on C, C++, Python, Perl, etc |
| 13:29.39 | inz | saaib, when eclipse (finally) starts up, I've already finished the changes with vi |
| 13:29.45 | ewanm89_laptop | hrw: Great :) |
| 13:30.42 | saaib | inz, that's why i'm saying that only with complex projects. It realy helps to locate methods of libraries that you're not very familiar with |
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| 13:31.02 | ewanm89_laptop | thomasg_: Once you learned a bit more of it gvim will work as vim if you ignore the GUI. |
| 13:31.29 | Skwid_ | are there any plans to have pidgin on the openmoko ? since it's gtk it shouldnt be too hard ? |
| 13:31.48 | Terinjokes | is it possible to run openmoko on a palm? |
| 13:31.49 | aloril | Terinjokes: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:32.05 | SpeedEvil | Terinjokes: no |
| 13:32.25 | SpeedEvil | Terinjokes: Maybe in a year or two. |
| 13:32.34 | Terinjokes | SpeedEvil: i see on the front page of the wiki, it working (somewhat) on a Treo 680... |
| 13:32.56 | Terinjokes | SpeedEvil: in that case, should i just get a Neo1973? |
| 13:33.05 | aloril | mickey|bbl: I know its basically just X box and still very happy that I got reasonably small ticket number ;-) |
| 13:33.06 | ewanm89_laptop | Skwid_: Well finch would give you the core functionality even quicker. |
| 13:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Terinjokes: It can basically be run on any platform with enough ROM and RAM, and CPU, that you have a linux kernel on. |
| 13:33.18 | SpeedEvil | And enough hardware drivers. |
| 13:33.32 | aloril | mickey|bbl: I can kind of relax now having reserved place, no matter how long actual shipping takes ;-) |
| 13:33.39 | Skwid_ | ewanm89_laptop: yeah but you'd have to rewrite the front end |
| 13:33.52 | SpeedEvil | Terinjokes: Openmoko is _NOT_ end-user ready. The dialer app barely works. That's about it. |
| 13:34.06 | ewanm89_laptop | Skwid_: As you said it wouldn't be to problematic. |
| 13:34.12 | wibbit | SpeedEvil: That sounds like it would run on the old Sharp Zauruses? |
| 13:34.21 | SpeedEvil | Terinjokes: all effort is going into getting more working, rather than putting it onto more devies. |
| 13:34.30 | wibbit | Just not as a phone obviously |
| 13:34.41 | Skwid_ | ewanm89_laptop: is someone working on it ? |
| 13:34.43 | SpeedEvil | wibbit: it's resource heavy - it's going to require 64M RAM at least prolly |
| 13:34.49 | aloril | mickey|bbl: what about "you have done great work, please relax and do some fun stuff now for a while"? |
| 13:35.03 | wibbit | SpeedEvil: I was thinking more the C3xxx models |
| 13:35.18 | ewanm89_laptop | Skwid_: not yet, basic phone functionality is top priority first. |
| 13:35.31 | Skwid_ | ewanm89_laptop: im sure :) |
| 13:35.32 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 13:35.33 | SpeedEvil | wibbit: In principle - if it's got enhough ROM and RAM, CPU, and drivers, sure. In practice, ... |
| 13:35.48 | Skwid_ | ewanm89_laptop: thanks for the info, it would be awesome though ! |
| 13:35.50 | mjr | aloril, hear hear |
| 13:35.51 | wibbit | SpeedEvil: is a totally different thing |
| 13:36.04 | *** join/#openmoko Hadaka (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 13:36.04 | Skwid_ | being able to do irc, aim, ym, msn, icq, gtalk, directly on the phone |
| 13:36.11 | Skwid_ | that alone would blast all the other phones :P |
| 13:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfUrl (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 13:37.03 | saaib | gotta sleep something, c'ya all... |
| 13:37.06 | summatusmentis | Skwid_: I think a shrunk down version of pidgin might work out.... |
| 13:37.19 | *** part/#openmoko saaib (n=saaib@adsl-75-11-169-4.dsl.sndg02.sbcglobal.net) |
| 13:37.21 | thomasg | ewanm89_laptop, yes, I hop I will ignore the gui :) |
| 13:37.40 | thomasg | but in fact I like to use a mouse for marking and so on, not for klicking buttons in the gui |
| 13:38.16 | Skwid_ | summatusmentis: i wish i could help, but i think that would be a little too involved for me |
| 13:38.20 | hrw | summatusmentis: I hope that empathy will be used rather or other telepathy based app |
| 13:38.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr/it]] [[Running_OpenMoko_on_PC/it]] [[Main_Page/nl]] [[User:Tetraden]] [[Main_Page/es]] [[Neo1973_host_software/it]] [[Neo1973]] [[Gsmd/it]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Steampunk]] [[Group_Order]] and other changes |
| 13:38.50 | summatusmentis | hrw: empathy? |
| 13:39.26 | summatusmentis | oh wait, telepathy.... that's a joke :-) |
| 13:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 13:42.18 | hrw | summatusmentis: no - there are projects with that names |
| 13:42.21 | slider_ | summatusmentis: no..empathy is a im-client which uses the telepathy-framework :) |
| 13:42.35 | summatusmentis | lol, oh |
| 13:42.48 | mmazur | And psychopaty would probably be the multichat plugin. |
| 13:42.51 | blindcoder | okay, I finally found out why the patches don't seem to work |
| 13:43.08 | blindcoder | because bitbake extracts the downloaded tar.gz and builds in there |
| 13:43.22 | blindcoder | instead of using the modified version at openmoko/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages |
| 13:44.43 | blindcoder | I also found a thread on openmoko-devel with this exact problem from two days ago |
| 13:44.45 | summatusmentis | hrw: can I ask why you'd pick that over gaim(etc.)? |
| 13:44.47 | blindcoder | with no reply |
| 13:44.50 | summatusmentis | s/gaim/pidgin |
| 13:44.58 | summatusmentis | s/gaim/pidgin/* |
| 13:45.06 | blindcoder | seriously, how are (potential) developers supposed to do anything like this |
| 13:45.13 | hrw | summatusmentis: smaller, easier to integrate in own projects |
| 13:45.14 | blindcoder | sorry, I'm a bit pissed right now |
| 13:45.23 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:45.35 | summatusmentis | hrw: I see |
| 13:45.37 | hrw | blindcoder: thats how bitbake works |
| 13:46.08 | blindcoder | hrw: good and fine, but I want to have my changes to openmoko-messages applied |
| 13:46.14 | blindcoder | hrw: how do I do that? |
| 13:46.37 | blindcoder | I found only this so far to explain anything: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-July/001038.html |
| 13:46.47 | blindcoder | but it doesn't actually explain it |
| 13:47.27 | fearphage | wifi is coming or already functional? i looked and did a little searching but is there a full feature list somewhere? |
| 13:47.28 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 13:47.39 | hrw | blindcoder: one way: bitbake -cunpack openmoko-messages; do changes, bitbake -ccompile openmoko-messages |
| 13:47.40 | fearphage | ok, one answer |
| 13:48.32 | blindcoder | hrw: will try |
| 13:48.33 | Skwid_ | hrw: do they support as many clients ? |
| 13:50.09 | hrw | Skwid_: telepathy? no idea |
| 13:50.15 | aloril | wifi |
| 13:50.15 | aloril | Currently sold Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 (P1) doesn't have WiFi, GTA02 (P2) which is scheduled for October will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 13:51.08 | fearphage | is there a full feature list in an easily readable format? |
| 13:51.17 | slider_ | Skwid_: jabber,aim,msn and irc from what i know |
| 13:51.45 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:52.04 | blindcoder | hah, looking good |
| 13:52.12 | blindcoder | hrw: this actually works :-) |
| 13:52.16 | blindcoder | hrw: so what is 'trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/' for? |
| 13:52.29 | hrw | blindcoder: to see what is in code? |
| 13:52.47 | hrw | blindcoder: mokomasterfile fetch whole trunk but use only trunk/oe/ dir |
| 13:52.58 | blindcoder | hrw: I see |
| 13:53.18 | blindcoder | so, just let me get this straight so I can write something in the wiki about it |
| 13:53.28 | blindcoder | to change an existing app |
| 13:53.33 | blindcoder | you would do the bitbake -c unpack |
| 13:53.38 | blindcoder | edit stuff |
| 13:53.41 | hrw | blindcoder: check OE wiki first |
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| 13:54.19 | blindcoder | run bitbake pkg until satisfied and then use whatever means the package devs want to submit patches back to openmoko? |
| 13:54.36 | *** join/#openmoko michaelpo (n=presario@60.53.35.80) |
| 13:54.53 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07EAB9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:55.36 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DBF14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:56.08 | michaelpo | hi.. i'm surfing the openmoko website.... i am trying to find the page if exists, list of mobile handset provider who are in the openmoko project panel and which provider will adopt openmoko soon... nokia? motorola? etc |
| 13:56.08 | aloril | michaelpo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:57.40 | SpeedEvil | None yet. |
| 13:57.49 | SpeedEvil | Just FIC is making hardware. |
| 13:59.03 | michaelpo | aloril: it's not in the faq |
| 13:59.26 | aloril | empty_mind: 3054? somebody else said same number (or was he talking about same order?), anyway, answer is this: 3054-1820+1 = 1235 th rt ticket number that has some relation to order numbers |
| 13:59.49 | aloril | michaelpo: well.. in this case faq non answer is also answer: there is no publicly known answer ;-) |
| 14:00.53 | aloril | ie.. nobody is aware of somebody else adopting OpenMoko (except of course free software hackers which have (partially) ported/compiled it for some devices |
| 14:02.39 | michaelpo | i read newsletter like saying motorola or samsung using linux? this is not openmoko? |
| 14:03.14 | ynezz | no |
| 14:03.32 | ynezz | its openrola and opensung :) |
| 14:03.59 | *** part/#openmoko nosys (n=thomas@grincheux.griotte.com) |
| 14:04.14 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko mario__ (n=mario@133-102.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 14:04.45 | michaelpo | i see.. will definitely buy a openmoko phone if its around usd100 |
| 14:05.09 | blindcoder | guess tehy'll never get down there |
| 14:05.21 | blindcoder | since the current one is at 300 and the p2 will be 450 |
| 14:05.22 | michaelpo | usd450 is not much cheaper than usd500 iphone |
| 14:05.52 | michaelpo | what u mean current and pentium2? |
| 14:06.01 | drath | Phase1 |
| 14:06.02 | blindcoder | phase 2 |
| 14:06.11 | jeddy3 | michaelpo, usd100? are you serious |
| 14:06.14 | drath | GTA02 |
| 14:06.23 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 14:06.33 | michaelpo | jeddy3: yes serious |
| 14:06.55 | blindcoder | oh, and a nvidia 8800 for 50$ for me, please |
| 14:07.27 | CM | blindcoder: Good work struggling all the way with quilt and bitbake and not giving up :) |
| 14:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-214-229.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:07.51 | blindcoder | CM: I'm almost at the point of succes |
| 14:07.56 | blindcoder | CM: currently qemu is booting |
| 14:08.01 | CM | :) |
| 14:08.07 | blindcoder | CM: although I find the whole build process _very_ confusing |
| 14:08.09 | michaelpo | motorola and nokia have lots of usd100 phones... why openmoko cost so much? |
| 14:08.20 | CM | blindcoder: Me too |
| 14:08.24 | blindcoder | I'd really love a good ROCK envirnment, but mostly because I know my way through that one |
| 14:08.27 | pygi | michaelpo, because openmoko isn't only a simple phone? :) |
| 14:08.43 | hrw | openmoko is not phone |
| 14:08.46 | Shoragan | michaelpo, because they are subsidized by the operators |
| 14:08.50 | hrw | it is software |
| 14:09.01 | CM | michaelpo: Because they manufacture millions of phones, and they don't have a 480x640 touchscreen, lots of ram and a decent processor |
| 14:09.29 | summatusmentis | michaelpo: also, in the US, carriers subsidize phone coest w/ a two year contract |
| 14:09.37 | summatusmentis | s/coest/cost/ |
| 14:09.43 | blindcoder | CM: actually, my patch is already applied in the current build :) |
| 14:09.52 | michaelpo | hmm... i've never bought phones more than usd100... i'm in malaysia... |
| 14:09.53 | blindcoder | CM: I tried by inserting a #error "blafasel" into a .c file |
| 14:09.56 | jeddy3 | michaelpo, there are tons of phones for much less than $100 also |
| 14:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-214-229.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:10.11 | jeddy3 | michaelpo, whitout any features that is |
| 14:10.38 | jeddy3 | s/whitout/without |
| 14:10.42 | michaelpo | hmm.. ok... i will read more on openmoko.org |
| 14:10.50 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 14:10.52 | blindcoder | YES! |
| 14:10.55 | blindcoder | and my change also works! |
| 14:11.05 | blindcoder | hrw: thanks for the help earlier |
| 14:11.05 | hrw | blindcoder: what you changed? |
| 14:11.14 | blindcoder | hrw: the font color in the sms reader |
| 14:11.23 | blindcoder | hrw: because white on light grey is total bs |
| 14:11.29 | hrw | e.. I was thinking that something better |
| 14:11.42 | hrw | colors should be only in theme anyway |
| 14:11.46 | blindcoder | hrw: making the text readable is something good in my book |
| 14:12.21 | *** join/#openmoko devestate (n=devestat@r02amsdm2.desktop.umr.edu) |
| 14:12.28 | blindcoder | also, there seems to be no functionality in the 'appearance' app yet |
| 14:12.44 | michaelpo | maybe this page http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone can include comparison with featureless phone too... |
| 14:13.31 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:13.50 | CM | michaelpo: Maybe we should add a "Why does the Neo cost 300USD" page |
| 14:14.07 | Darkfang | i want a neo phone :'( |
| 14:14.41 | michaelpo | CM: yes please... and why some phone cost usd50 page... |
| 14:14.41 | CM | It's the cheapest phone I've bought in the last 10 years though (Since Nokia 3110) |
| 14:15.33 | Darkfang | you should add a page with owner's comments on Neo |
| 14:15.45 | CM | michaelpo: The USD 50 phones either come with some expensive one or two year plan, or they're shite, like Nokia 1120 or hat it's called. |
| 14:15.56 | CM | s/had/what/ |
| 14:16.06 | CM | s/hat/what/ |
| 14:16.32 | ossman | Darkfang, I'd say it's too early to review it as a phone. just a dev platform for now :) |
| 14:16.49 | Darkfang | yeah but i mean even the look |
| 14:16.53 | Darkfang | it looks good |
| 14:17.11 | Darkfang | but sometimes when you have it in your hands it's not so great anymore |
| 14:17.33 | michaelpo | i know many ppl buy expensive phones, and only use the voice and sms, mp3 functions only... nothing else.. |
| 14:18.07 | ossman | Darkfang, it delivers what it promises in that regard. the screen is fantastic up close |
| 14:18.18 | Darkfang | it's good |
| 14:18.26 | Darkfang | but it should be better to write it somewhere |
| 14:18.30 | Darkfang | ^^ |
| 14:18.30 | summatusmentis | michaelpo: it's likely your $50USD phones are pretty subsidized then |
| 14:18.42 | Darkfang | anyway i'll be waiting for GTA02 to buy it |
| 14:18.56 | Darkfang | i want 802.11 support |
| 14:19.02 | michaelpo | my usd50 phone is 2110 |
| 14:19.08 | michaelpo | nokia2110 |
| 14:19.21 | *** join/#openmoko VladoK (n=vlado@adsl-dyn38.91-127-103.t-com.sk) |
| 14:19.30 | michaelpo | in malaysia, cheap phones are unlocked, unsubsidised |
| 14:19.34 | aloril | there are 35 EUR Nokia and 800 EUR Nokias too in Finland ;-) |
| 14:19.43 | aloril | so there is quite a price scale |
| 14:19.49 | summatusmentis | fair enough |
| 14:19.49 | blindcoder | CM: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Developing_with_MokoMakefile |
| 14:20.03 | ossman | aloril, unfortunately, both ends disappoint ;) |
| 14:20.16 | aloril | ossman: hehe, thus Neo1973 |
| 14:20.17 | Darkfang | my phone is something like 30 euros. It can't send MMS :p |
| 14:20.23 | ossman | aloril, indeed |
| 14:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 14:20.49 | blindcoder | anyway, I'm going home for the day |
| 14:20.50 | blindcoder | bbl |
| 14:21.14 | summatusmentis | hrm... do most jobs let you spend your time working on something presumably unrelated? |
| 14:21.26 | summatusmentis | if so, I want a job like that :-) |
| 14:21.32 | CM | blindcoder: Nice! I'll replace root@pallas with ~ though ;) |
| 14:21.59 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
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| 14:22.38 | aloril | michaelpo: so they don't sell expensive Nokia's there? like E90 or N95? |
| 14:23.31 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 14:23.38 | michaelpo | yes they do.... but ppl still just use voice and sms mostly..... |
| 14:24.07 | michaelpo | oh.. and camera... |
| 14:24.10 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@modemcable049.94-82-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 14:25.18 | jeddy3 | michaelpo, i don't quite get what you are suggesting...you just need a cheap simple phone? |
| 14:26.17 | *** join/#openmoko sjoerd (n=sjoerd@tunnel3460.ipv6.xs4all.nl) |
| 14:26.40 | aloril | michaelpo: how much do E90 and N95 cost there? |
| 14:27.00 | michaelpo | i mean, most ppl dont use many features... just voice, sms, camera.... |
| 14:27.27 | jeddy3 | ok, those ppl shouln't get a more expensive smartphone then |
| 14:27.55 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:28.30 | michaelpo | e90 in malaysia is about usd1000 |
| 14:29.12 | CM | michaelpo: How much for the iPhone? |
| 14:30.13 | michaelpo | n95 in malaysia is about usd400 |
| 14:30.20 | michaelpo | iphone is not selling yet in malaysia |
| 14:30.54 | pygi | well, openmoko is 300$ + 100$ shipping + tax |
| 14:31.14 | SpeedEvil | pygi: less shipping if you group buy of course. |
| 14:31.36 | pygi | SpeedEvil, ofcourse =) |
| 14:32.01 | SpeedEvil | I wonder what a minimal phone would be. |
| 14:32.03 | pygi | SpeedEvil, tax would be 22% or so on the value |
| 14:32.41 | SpeedEvil | Say 32M NAND, microSD slot, 64M RAM, 160*200 B+W display, no GPS. |
| 14:32.54 | michaelpo | i dont mind paying laptop price if full laptop features are squeeze into phone size |
| 14:33.43 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: what is the value of having an open phone if it is too small to do anything but voice sms and camera ? |
| 14:33.43 | michaelpo | usd500 is okay for laptop features in phone size... |
| 14:34.22 | Darkfang | dcorking : code your own pong or pac man to play on it? :p |
| 14:34.25 | dcorking | yes - Neo1973 is a tiny tablet pc with a built-in phone |
| 14:35.20 | SpeedEvil | dcorking: sync to PC, ... all other things included. |
| 14:35.27 | ewon | anyone from fic on channel? |
| 14:35.31 | dcorking | Darkfang: sure - I have a J2ME phone in my pocket, on which *no* downloadable games I tried work! |
| 14:35.47 | flingpoo | Shipping is $100? |
| 14:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko mangojambo (n=mangojam@r83-pw-sucuriu.ibys.com.br) |
| 14:36.06 | SpeedEvil | Can be |
| 14:36.07 | aloril | n95 at $400, that is quite cheap if true |
| 14:36.12 | SpeedEvil | In the US it's $14 or so |
| 14:36.29 | flingpoo | Oh, okay. |
| 14:36.36 | SpeedEvil | UPS is horribly expensive outside the US |
| 14:36.49 | dcorking | aloril: I think that price for N95 is subsidised by the network - you need to find retail price for a 'SIM free' N95 |
| 14:37.22 | dcorking | (and the developer price for Neo1973 is subsidized by FIC :) ) |
| 14:37.23 | michaelpo | it shouldnt need to dock to a pc.... it should be a pc itself... can connect to an external hdd, or connect to an external, external lcd monitor.... |
| 14:38.09 | Darkfang | michaelpo: there's a linux.. Add your own stuff and make it possible? :) |
| 14:38.32 | SpeedEvil | There are no USB 1.1 ->VGA adaptors |
| 14:38.40 | aloril | michaelpo: with (battery) powered USB it can connected to external hdd |
| 14:39.16 | aloril | michaelpo: and you can display apps running on Neo1973 on nearby PC or display apps running on PC in Neo1973 |
| 14:39.43 | aloril | s:powered USB:powered USB hub: |
| 14:40.00 | Darkfang | USB to DVI ? |
| 14:40.08 | michaelpo | i mean, having a laptop, that needs to sync to a desktop for installation of software is a bit silly.... |
| 14:40.26 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeeti1 (n=david@c-69-249-179-35.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:41.00 | *** part/#openmoko MrFeeti1 (n=david@c-69-249-179-35.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:41.05 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeeti1 (n=david@c-69-249-179-35.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:42.07 | aloril | michaelpo: you can install over GPRS too or use any USB device with powered USB hub |
| 14:43.30 | MrFeeti1 | how fast is gprs, can it be used to surf the net? at decent speeds? |
| 14:43.59 | CM | MrFeeti1: Only at indecent speeds.. :P |
| 14:44.56 | MrFeeti1 | so it is mainly for, updating information for programs(like weather) |
| 14:45.00 | CM | MrFeeti1: Seriously though, with OperaMini on my SE W610i it works ok. It's useable for text, but not much more |
| 14:45.12 | MrFeeti1 | ok |
| 14:45.20 | CM | IRC works fine |
| 14:45.29 | CM | ssh ok too |
| 14:45.29 | MrFeeti1 | and chat |
| 14:45.50 | mjr | it's usable for web browsing in a pinch, but not a pleasure |
| 14:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko untwisted (n=bam33@cnr00258.nursing.pitt.edu) |
| 14:46.41 | untwisted | mornin' fellas |
| 14:47.04 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-214-229.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:47.29 | untwisted | anyone around? |
| 14:47.47 | aloril | hi untwisted |
| 14:47.51 | MrFeeti1 | hi |
| 14:48.17 | summatusmentis | hi unarzna |
| 14:48.30 | summatusmentis | s/unarzna/untwisted/ |
| 14:48.40 | summatusmentis | sorry unarzna |
| 14:48.47 | MrFeeti1 | so does openmoko have a working GUI? |
| 14:50.33 | untwisted | I believe it does |
| 14:50.44 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD781.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:50.47 | untwisted | it runs X and a GTK based gui I believe |
| 14:50.53 | MrFeeti1 | what phones are known to run openmoko?(other then the neo) |
| 14:51.03 | untwisted | so little time, haven't been able to run it and play with it myself :( |
| 14:51.06 | ewon | it's been haxed to run on a treo, iirc |
| 14:51.20 | untwisted | yah, I'm considering trying it with my treo ;) |
| 14:51.21 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 14:52.10 | MrFeeti1 | i think the openmoko.org needs to start listing the openmoko capable phones |
| 14:52.36 | summatusmentis | MrFeeti1: only one known right now is the neo |
| 14:52.43 | summatusmentis | kind of the treo |
| 14:53.00 | SpeedEvil | And it's in the first para of the wiki. |
| 14:53.09 | SpeedEvil | Well - second |
| 14:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:54.06 | SpeedEvil | MrFeeti1: as of GPRS - think dialup. Rather laggy dialup. |
| 14:54.18 | michaelpo | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:56.52 | *** join/#openmoko |mperitus (i=user@198.173.8.69) |
| 14:57.14 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X066e.x.pppool.de) |
| 14:58.43 | *** part/#openmoko VladoK (n=vlado@adsl-dyn38.91-127-103.t-com.sk) |
| 14:59.18 | |mperitus | Is the version of the neo 1973 that's for sale actualy usable as a phon, or is it purely for developers at this point? |
| 14:59.26 | untwisted | just devs |
| 14:59.31 | |mperitus | K. THanks. |
| 14:59.34 | untwisted | october will be the release of the consumer version |
| 14:59.35 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@AMarseille-153-1-34-240.w86-197.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:59.46 | untwisted | or rather, thats when its slated for |
| 15:00.31 | |mperitus | and it will work on any service that uses a gsm system with sim chips? |
| 15:01.05 | juco | unless the carrier starts blocking them |
| 15:01.22 | |mperitus | heaven forbid. |
| 15:01.26 | untwisted | I believe it can work with non-sim chip systems as well, can it not? |
| 15:01.27 | CM | MrFeeti1: One problem they're working on is the qvga resizing. Not many phones have 480x640 screens |
| 15:01.30 | |R | anyway, we have to kill the carriers ;) |
| 15:02.01 | untwisted | If they block it, I guarentee that hackers will work around it within days of them blocking |
| 15:02.48 | devestate | as long as you pay your bill I'm sure that they don't really care what phone you are using |
| 15:02.51 | juco | the gsm portion of neo1973 is a closed system |
| 15:03.07 | juco | if a carrier bans a phone, it will be based on the gsm radio |
| 15:03.35 | |mperitus | Yeah, I just have to start looking for a good data plan on another carrier, sprint won't have anything liek openmoko for a long long time. |
| 15:03.58 | juco | no, they use brew phones |
| 15:04.16 | juco | well, for the most part |
| 15:05.02 | *** part/#openmoko mangojambo (n=mangojam@r83-pw-sucuriu.ibys.com.br) |
| 15:05.03 | |mperitus | when I got my plan sprint had the latest and greatest, but in the past few years they have been the last to get anything new. I could qq all day about that. |
| 15:06.36 | |mperitus | I just don't get why it's so hard for the big companies to realize that the ther are consumers who want a nice high rez screen on their mobile devices. |
| 15:06.44 | MrFeeti1 | are carriers allowed to block phones |
| 15:06.53 | juco | in the US they are |
| 15:07.13 | |mperitus | hell sprint cancelled contracts cause peopel called to complain to much... they can do what ever they want in the US it seems. |
| 15:07.14 | juco | the AT&T contract reserves the right to block non AT&T approved devices from their network |
| 15:07.24 | LarstiQ | |mperitus: more that they think the market is too small to recouperate costs. |
| 15:07.48 | juco | |mperitus, if you go with a GSM carrier you can buy your own phones |
| 15:07.55 | |mperitus | I know. |
| 15:07.56 | juco | including OpenMoko |
| 15:07.57 | MrFeeti1 | the iphone will change that(it has a high res screen) |
| 15:08.05 | juco | or, if you like, the N95 |
| 15:08.10 | juco | now that's a fancy phone |
| 15:08.17 | juco | with a fancy pricetag |
| 15:08.23 | juco | $650 US |
| 15:08.25 | |mperitus | but back when I got my plan I didn't know the difference, and now I don't want to give up my realy nice deal. |
| 15:09.45 | CM | mrfeetio-away: 320x480 at 160 ppi for the iPhone vs 2.8" 480x640 at 285 ppi for the Neo1973... |
| 15:10.23 | thomasg | and my about 2 years old nokia has touchscreen with a much higher res then the iphone |
| 15:10.59 | juco | really? what model? |
| 15:11.37 | dcorking | untwisted: i don't understand you - what 'non-sim chip systems' do you have in mind? |
| 15:11.40 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:12.04 | |mperitus | I don't knwo much about gsm, how does the speed of data on something liek the neo compair to other phones? |
| 15:12.05 | *** join/#openmoko Monex (n=Monex@dslb-088-068-206-116.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:13.06 | flingpoo | dcorking: CDMA |
| 15:13.08 | untwisted | dcorking: I'm not too up on cell technologies, I know verizon doesn't use the sim chip, or is it just built in? I assumed you would be able to use the moko with a carrier like verizon? |
| 15:13.59 | ewon | no |
| 15:14.08 | ewon | they're CDMA, probably. different tech to GSM. |
| 15:14.11 | michaelpo | what's the diff btw ubuntumobile and openmoko? |
| 15:14.16 | dcorking | untwisted - flingpoo - if you can get open hardware like the Neo1973 for CDMA then I am sure you could run openmoko on it |
| 15:14.18 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 15:14.18 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:14.51 | summatusmentis | untwisted: Verizon is CDMA, so is Sprint, and US Cellular |
| 15:14.59 | dcorking | untwisted - flingpoo but since Neo1973 is the first open phone - then for now you will have to move to GSM - |
| 15:15.20 | dcorking | - until the concept is proven and a CDMA open phone clone appears |
| 15:15.28 | untwisted | I use AT&T anyway :) |
| 15:15.37 | untwisted | or I'd buy a prepaid SIM if I had to |
| 15:15.56 | dcorking | CDMA phones and networks normally lag GSM tech by several years as it is by far the minority platform |
| 15:16.04 | |mperitus | doesn't att have a realy nice unlimited data plan for iphones? anyone know if it's possible to get hat plan without the iphone? |
| 15:16.10 | untwisted | yea |
| 15:16.14 | untwisted | I have that plan with the treo |
| 15:16.23 | untwisted | its unlimited data & 200 text messages for $20 |
| 15:17.21 | dcorking | untwisted: it sounds like you are good to go - I hope you get a neo and enjoy hacking it! |
| 15:17.29 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 15:17.43 | untwisted | dcorking: me too! I've picked up extra work to afford one, however I'm not sure when I'll see the light of that payday |
| 15:18.03 | untwisted | quite a bummer actually :P |
| 15:18.23 | |mperitus | still not as good as my sprint plan, but add in the opetion of better phones and a sim card and its tempting. |
| 15:18.44 | untwisted | I have a buddy who worked for radio shack and got a NICE sprint plan |
| 15:18.54 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-147-079.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:19.00 | untwisted | he gets like $50 in download credit, unlimited data, and lots of minutes for like $50 a month |
| 15:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-146-3-117.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 15:19.09 | dcorking | untwisted: i am in kind of the same boat - my eyes are bigger than my waller |
| 15:19.14 | dcorking | s/waller/wallet |
| 15:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko Plouj (n=Plouj@207.112.66.5) |
| 15:19.16 | Plouj | hi |
| 15:19.18 | Kensan | Does anybody know the reason behind Laforge's latest blog post? |
| 15:19.29 | Plouj | is there any proprietary software on these phones? |
| 15:19.34 | |mperitus | I have the ancient grandfathered unlimited data umlimited text for 10 a month. |
| 15:19.53 | untwisted | dcorking: Haha, I know how that is. Working 3 jobs right now so I can pay for all sorts of fun things, but with all of the work I have no time for the fun things :P |
| 15:20.28 | CM | Plouj: Only for the gsm modem, that you access via at commands, and a binary blob for the AGPS that's being re-engineered slowly |
| 15:20.50 | CM | s/re-/reverse / |
| 15:21.07 | dcorking | untwisted: why not wait for an old Neo1973 on ebay - when it goes commercial the real hackers may want rid of the old ones |
| 15:21.11 | untwisted | I'm glad you guys use regex to correct yourselves |
| 15:21.25 | michaelpo | what does grandfathered mean? i read this alot regarding gpl3 and novell.... |
| 15:21.35 | untwisted | dcorking: my intentions are to buy the 1973, and the consumer release in october :P |
| 15:21.47 | |mperitus | well in my case it means you can't get the plan any more but they can't take it away from me. |
| 15:22.07 | CM | untwisted: I sense a hint of sarcasm there.. ;) |
| 15:22.17 | untwisted | cm: none at all actually :P |
| 15:22.29 | dcorking | CM: do those binary blobs need to be flashed into the NAND memory (by USB) or are they in unchangeable firmware ? I did not see mention of how the blobs are maintained in the wiki |
| 15:22.36 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 15:22.39 | untwisted | Money burns a hole in my pocket. |
| 15:22.43 | SpeedEvil | The GSM blob is internal. |
| 15:22.46 | untwisted | CM, enjoy! <3 Flogging Molly |
| 15:22.47 | SpeedEvil | it's got its own flash |
| 15:22.52 | SpeedEvil | which you can't touch. |
| 15:22.59 | SpeedEvil | The GPS blob is a binary app |
| 15:23.01 | CM | untwisted: Me too, I've seen them twice live :D |
| 15:23.09 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 15:23.13 | untwisted | CM: Never missed them in Pittsburgh since 1999 |
| 15:23.19 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: ta |
| 15:23.32 | CM | Well, they don't come often to Göteborg Sweden ;) |
| 15:23.38 | untwisted | CM: Met Dropkick once, the guys were dicks, but the music is good ;) I also <3 Street Dogs :P |
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| 15:23.54 | untwisted | CM: Man... I wanna go to sweden. |
| 15:24.02 | untwisted | CM: but I'll let you go, eat :) enjoy! |
| 15:24.06 | CM | untwisted: Saw Streetdogs 2 months ago at a small club |
| 15:24.33 | dcorking | untwisted: well you could always sell your pc and any music players you have (in theory you won't have time for them - and the neo ought to be a decent mp3 player) :( |
| 15:24.34 | CM | We were maybe 200ppl, and they came down after the show to have some beers and chat a bit. Nice guys for sure |
| 15:25.06 | untwisted | CM: Thats AWESOME, I was at a show where I went out with the Tossers after the show for drinks. |
| 15:25.20 | Plouj | apt: why wasn't this AGPS stuff made as free software right away? |
| 15:25.22 | CM | :D |
| 15:25.34 | untwisted | CM: Actually, the drummer from FM passed out from food poisoning during a show, Dave King (the singer) invited me to go to the hospital with him since we had been having a conversation :P |
| 15:25.43 | dcorking | untwisted: you in the US or Canada? |
| 15:25.48 | untwisted | dcorking: US |
| 15:26.00 | CM | Plouj: NDAs from the manufactures of the AGPS chip didn't allow it |
| 15:26.11 | untwisted | dcorking: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania |
| 15:26.43 | dcorking | untwisted: then for goodness sake keep some money around for deductibles/copays in case you get sick - not good to work 3 jobs and have no savings (but I am both old and oldfashioned) |
| 15:27.01 | untwisted | CM: Next on my shows list is warped tour, Bad Religion and Flogging Molly (and I may have backstage passes coming!) |
| 15:27.17 | CM | untwisted: Sweet :) |
| 15:27.58 | untwisted | dcorking: Well I have a steady job, and I'm working 2 side projects really. Web design. One of them is actually taking off, and may allow me to quit the others ;) I have a rainy day fund, and I always put money in to my IRA first before anything else, so I should be OK. |
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| 15:28.28 | orzo | anybody got their order accepted? |
| 15:28.38 | untwisted | dcorking: My dad beat the idea of retirement money in to my head at an early age :P |
| 15:28.48 | dcorking | btw Pennsylvania is cool - I lived in Delaware a while but I am in Europe now (national health and welfare if I need it, but no steelers nicks or radio shack) |
| 15:29.36 | dcorking | untwisted: ok - I will stop being your dad again |
| 15:30.01 | untwisted | dcorking: Haha, a Stillers (Pittsburghese) fan eh? Whereabouts in Europe are ya? I took a trip to Europe 2 years ago, and I want nothing more to go back. |
| 15:30.14 | dcorking | er s/nicks/69ers/ |
| 15:30.26 | untwisted | dcorking: Haha, no worries, can never have too many people lookin out for ya ;) |
| 15:30.29 | orzo | we are supposed to get two emails from openmoko, right? |
| 15:31.04 | untwisted | orzo: Not having ordered one, I can only say from what I've heard floating around that yes, you're supposed to get two, but that it can take as long as 24 hours, and that a lot of other people seem to be waiting. |
| 15:31.17 | dcorking | untwisted: no actually i am a radio shack fan - but I also miss OLN ... |
| 15:31.26 | notserpe | orzo: nobody's got 2 yet apparently. |
| 15:31.52 | dcorking | ... I bet if I had a Neo1973 I would be watching video podcasts from Bob Roll or George Hincapie or someone on it |
| 15:32.22 | untwisted | haha |
| 15:32.43 | untwisted | When the v2 comes out, I want to make a Wiimote out of it :P |
| 15:32.54 | untwisted | bluetooth + 2 accelerometers = wii control |
| 15:33.18 | dcorking | untwisted: Bath http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=Mozilla-search&q=BA1 |
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| 15:38.53 | dcorking | OFF-TOPIC untwisted: you know what sucks about the UK - the Tour de France was here at the weekend but unlike the US (where you have VERSUS channel) we can't get live coverage of the race - not even on cable or satellite |
| 15:39.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo/it]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr/it]] [[Input_Method]] [[Talk:Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[MokoMakefile]] [[Wish_List]] [[Press_Coverage/it]] [[Press_Coverage]] |
| 15:40.26 | don-o | woah, anyone have more details on the "Insanity" post at planet.openmoko.org? |
| 15:40.31 | drath | dcorking: huh? it's on two freetv channels here... |
| 15:41.25 | drath | dcorking: including the "first" programme, i.e. the one that's available really everywhere, no matter if terrestrial, satellite or cable |
| 15:41.45 | ewon | don-o: la-forge sounds pissed |
| 15:41.52 | notserpe | did OLN become VERSUS? |
| 15:43.05 | notserpe | anyhow looks like oln is now versus and their website has lots of tour video |
| 15:43.07 | dcorking | notserpe: AFAICT |
| 15:43.29 | dcorking | the video is in flash - so I guess it won't work on the neo after all ... |
| 15:43.42 | notserpe | which you can grab from your "cache" as well... I played it on mplayer like that last year |
| 15:43.55 | dcorking | ... but thanks to untwisted for reminding me about it - I am watching the vids on my laptop |
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| 15:45.23 | michaelpo | how does ubuntumobile compare with openmoko? |
| 15:45.42 | hrw | michaelpo: its for other targets |
| 15:46.03 | michaelpo | what other targets? |
| 15:46.04 | orzo | hm |
| 15:46.05 | hrw | michaelpo: ubuntu mobile targets UMPC, openmoko targets phones |
| 15:46.20 | michaelpo | UMPC cant make calls? |
| 15:46.39 | hrw | you know what UMPC is? |
| 15:46.45 | orzo | a tablet pc? |
| 15:46.58 | michaelpo | ultramobilepc... ms origami... |
| 15:47.13 | hrw | then compare their tech specs with neo1973 |
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| 15:47.42 | michaelpo | will umpc ever make calls? never? |
| 15:47.55 | |mperitus | skype style calls maybe. |
| 15:47.59 | orzo | are you saying that ubuntumobil is too demanding for a phone? |
| 15:48.16 | hrw | orzo: for such phones are the one targetted by openmoko? yes |
| 15:48.31 | untwisted | sorry, coworker came in |
| 15:48.36 | untwisted | looks like they're back |
| 15:48.44 | untwisted | whats the map for there dcorking? |
| 15:49.15 | untwisted | Ahhh, where you're from! |
| 15:49.25 | michaelpo | can we ever make calls on laptops? plug in a pcmcia gsm card... use builtin mic and builtin speakers or external headset? |
| 15:50.46 | orzo | what is sacrificed on a umpc, if you have openmoko with a lot of aps instead of ubuntomobile? |
| 15:50.46 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:50.49 | michaelpo | or can we ever make landline calls on laptops? using the builtin modem? |
| 15:51.30 | michaelpo | we can fax using the builtin modem in the laptops... there should not be problems to make calls right? |
| 15:51.59 | SpeedEvil | michaelpo: in principle you can. |
| 15:52.16 | SpeedEvil | michaelpo: it depends on all the software supporting it, and the hardware. |
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| 15:54.41 | mjr | yeah voice modems should be available, dunno about linux drivres i nthis winmodem era |
| 15:55.22 | tuukkah | actually the modem on this laptop is supported by alsa as a sound device =) |
| 15:55.41 | tuukkah | never tried to generate dial tones though :-) |
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| 16:00.58 | Sup3rkiddo | whats the difference between world expedited and saver with regards to shipping..saver costs more |
| 16:01.28 | SpeedEvil | UPS shipment options |
| 16:01.31 | TRIsoft | Sup3rkiddo: Expedited takes a few days longer. Express / Express saver is one / two day service |
| 16:01.41 | mjr | tuukkah, you'd generally want to be able to use at commands for dialing and answering, then send/receive audio |
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| 16:01.50 | Sup3rkiddo | TRIsoft, oh.. |
| 16:01.54 | Sup3rkiddo | thank you |
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| 16:02.07 | ewon | has anyone had any further contact from sales@openmoko re. shippign? |
| 16:02.10 | thomasg | hm, harald seems to be angry ( http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/ ) - someone knows the reasons? |
| 16:02.18 | SpeedEvil | ewon: none reported |
| 16:02.41 | ewon | k |
| 16:02.56 | TRIsoft | Sup3rkiddo: one / two day depends on location. Difference between Express and Saver is the guaranteed delivery time. Express is mostly delivery until 10am, Saver is during the day. |
| 16:03.19 | tuukkah | mjr, that might be possible with the non-free daemon that implements modem functionality |
| 16:03.26 | Sup3rkiddo | TRIsoft, oh ok.... |
| 16:04.29 | galexande | oh nos! drama! |
| 16:04.30 | TRIsoft | gtg, cu |
| 16:04.51 | galexande | well, luckily, gta01 is the pinnacle to me, so if it ships and then they all kill eachother then i'm fine |
| 16:05.25 | |R | y'a des GL qui se flashent pas ?! :/ |
| 16:05.27 | |R | oops |
| 16:05.39 | tuukkah | "flashent" =) |
| 16:05.56 | |R | hehe |
| 16:06.01 | |R | fren-glish ;) |
| 16:06.13 | tuukkah | indeed ;-) |
| 16:06.45 | |R | québec is very good with frenglish ;) |
| 16:06.49 | mjr | tuukkah, but of course... |
| 16:06.51 | tuukkah | |R, do you still pronounce like english "flash"? |
| 16:07.09 | |R | yeah... i try to pronounce everything in their original language sounding... |
| 16:07.44 | tuukkah | mjr, that we'd want that doesn't mean it's actually implemented in the non-free stuff |
| 16:08.03 | |R | it's hard to use french words for everything... even though we do create a lot of new words ;) |
| 16:08.11 | mjr | you mean non-proprietary, methinks |
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| 16:09.04 | Sup3rkiddo | is this what is called as a pidgin/ |
| 16:09.24 | tuukkah | |R, what about, do you inflect "nous flashons"? |
| 16:09.57 | tuukkah | Sup3rkiddo, no, this is just using a lot of loan-words afaik |
| 16:10.12 | Sup3rkiddo | loan-words..hahah |
| 16:10.32 | galexande | my favorite is 'die jeans' |
| 16:10.34 | |R | tuukkah : yeah, you keep the root of the word and adapt the rest :) |
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| 16:11.00 | Sup3rkiddo | i use tanglish in that case..tamil + english |
| 16:11.09 | tuukkah | mjr, nope, i was talking about the limitations inflected on the users of the non-free implementation that is available |
| 16:11.28 | |R | you speak a bit of french? |
| 16:12.08 | tuukkah | moi? un peu |
| 16:12.49 | |R | from school? travel? :) |
| 16:13.04 | tuukkah | yeah, five years at school |
| 16:13.51 | tuukkah | mais, il n'est rien en pratique |
| 16:14.22 | |R | i wouldn't be able to give you a word of finish so you're better off already ;-) |
| 16:14.38 | tuukkah | sauna ?-) |
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| 16:14.54 | |R | haha |
| 16:15.36 | tuukkah | what about the expression molotov cocktail, would you know that one? |
| 16:16.17 | |R | yep, so you're in the resistance too? ;P |
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| 16:16.33 | Placid | lol |
| 16:18.18 | tuukkah | wikipedia has the story behind the expression :-) |
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| 16:19.09 | Placid | molotov cocktail isn't an expression, it's a toy! ffs! |
| 16:19.48 | |R | haha |
| 16:19.50 | dcorking | michaelpo: you said"or can we ever make landline calls on laptops? using the builtin modem?" i have done this with PCI/ISA modem on a linux desktop - so no reason why not on a laptop |
| 16:20.04 | |R | interesting history :) |
| 16:20.58 | dcorking | michaelpo: but i don't know if GSM modem cards or a tethered GSM phone can do the same thing - they are designed for data :) |
| 16:21.37 | Placid | lol, cool pic too, |R |
| 16:21.48 | galexande | i would guess that a gsm modem card has the analog pins but they are n/c |
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| 16:22.30 | SpeedEvil | It would need 'voice modem' functionality in most cases. |
| 16:22.44 | |R | http://fukung.net/v/4799/IMG_5894.JPG |
| 16:22.53 | |R | see... molotov _is_ a toy ;) |
| 16:22.54 | galexande | you could probably open it up and solder a headphone jack to the appropriate pins, and run that around to the laptop sound card |
| 16:23.35 | Placid | hahah |
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| 16:23.53 | Placid | holy crap that picture's f-cked up! |
| 16:24.13 | Placid | That site is NSFW I bet |
| 16:24.37 | |R | depending of your definition of work and safe yes ;) |
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| 16:25.18 | galexande | it won't raise very many kilograms very many meters... |
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| 16:28.04 | Placid | lol |
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| 16:28.27 | Sup3rkiddo | netsplit pwns |
| 16:28.27 | jens_ | nice |
| 16:28.27 | galexande | did i do that? |
| 16:28.27 | woglinde | yes ;) |
| 16:28.27 | galexande | damn, still a ton of people here so i can't split in with ops :( |
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| 16:28.29 | Placid | aaaahaha |
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| 16:28.29 | |R | would that make a new OpenMoko Slogan: Take Over freedom? ;P |
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| 16:28.30 | galexande | freedom to rule! |
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| 16:30.42 | galexande | someone ought to make an irc-compatible server that has a non-retarded network topology |
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| 16:31.54 | tuukkah | galexande, yeah like if it was an actual *network* it wouldn't matter each time a link goes down |
| 16:32.11 | blindcoder | okay, why does my local qemu only give me a black screen? |
| 16:32.18 | dcorking | lots of netsplits on freenode the last few days :( |
| 16:32.47 | woglinde | dcorking the running joke is, that we have now holdiays in germany |
| 16:32.57 | woglinde | so kids have time for dos attacks |
| 16:33.09 | *** join/#openmoko Fatal (i=fatal@debian.as) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:33.14 | blindcoder | I rsync'ed opemnmoko-{kernel,flash}.image to local host, built qemu and only get blank screen :( |
| 16:33.29 | woglinde | blindcoder sorry cant help |
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| 16:37.51 | dcorking | woglinde: i thought only nice people used freenode :) |
| 16:37.55 | blindcoder | ah |
| 16:38.01 | blindcoder | it needs a bunch of other files, too |
| 16:38.02 | woglinde | blindcoder? |
| 16:38.06 | blindcoder | but doesn't complain about them missing |
| 16:38.07 | woglinde | hehe |
| 16:38.15 | *** join/#openmoko WSX (i=jan@noc.xs26.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:38.17 | blindcoder | I just rsync'ed the whole build/qemu directory over |
| 16:38.23 | blindcoder | now it works |
| 16:38.34 | tuukkah | what's the point of this in the faq: "*XorA guesses that if your first question is "is there an emulator" then you're not actually ever going to do dev work :-)"? |
| 16:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178110120.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:39.22 | blindcoder | woglinde: Thou shalt not lose thy terminals! |
| 16:39.42 | blindcoder | Thou shalt put them where thou hast easy access to them! |
| 16:39.46 | galexande | tuukkah, is not snark essentiial in a wiki? |
| 16:39.51 | jedix | sometimes screen screws up |
| 16:40.43 | tuukkah | galexande, yeah but how is it supposed to even make sense? |
| 16:40.53 | galexande | sense is essential to a wiki? |
| 16:41.13 | woglinde | blindcoder kdm restart after debian unstable upgrade |
| 16:41.15 | galexande | you'd have to ask xora :) |
| 16:41.16 | tuukkah | a good signal-to-noise ratio would be nice |
| 16:41.30 | jedix | you mean noise-to-signal. |
| 16:41.33 | jedix | it's a wiki.. |
| 16:41.36 | galexande | it seems to me like a lot of emulator-users will be looky-loos "oh no, it doesn't do anything" and never touch it again |
| 16:41.51 | galexande | but i think at thisp oint the people with emulators are a lot more likely to produce code than the ones who are waiting for ups to show up |
| 16:42.17 | tuukkah | jedix, so you want the wiki to be a lot of noice? |
| 16:42.19 | happycube | at least if you've used mokomakefile to build the emu you're in a spot to compile ;) |
| 16:42.37 | galexande | i've used mokomakefile and i'm in a spot to figure out why it doesn't work :) |
| 16:42.38 | jedix | tuukkah: what I want does not change reality |
| 16:42.50 | jedix | as much as I wish it did |
| 16:42.51 | mjr | the point largely is that you don't need an emulator to develop for openmoko, you just need, say, an x86 pc |
| 16:42.58 | happycube | yup |
| 16:43.11 | tuukkah | jedix, i was talking about what would be nice, so no, what you suggest is not what i meant |
| 16:43.23 | jedix | ah, sorry. |
| 16:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@mail.limespot.co.in) |
| 16:43.39 | dcorking | michaelpo and SpeedEvil : fwiw, the GSM AT commands are described in great detail here - wget http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/07_series/07.07/0707-780.zip you just need to find out if your phone or modem card supports them ... |
| 16:44.04 | dcorking | ... however I have tried using AT commands to make a GSM phone dial a voice call - and do you know what happens? |
| 16:44.11 | tuukkah | jedix, and as it's a wiki i'm also able to do my part in making that a reality, whether that ever happens or not :-) |
| 16:44.14 | SpeedEvil | Aliens flew out your nose? |
| 16:44.27 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: :D |
| 16:44.27 | woglinde | lol |
| 16:44.44 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 16:44.45 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week 19:15:15 (7.802±3.0 days) (1730;246) |
| 16:44.52 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: the call goes through - but you have to talk on the handset, not on the PC soundcard :) |
| 16:44.55 | tuukkah | dcorking, did you remember to put a semicolon in the end of ATD line? |
| 16:45.23 | tuukkah | right =) |
| 16:45.24 | dcorking | tuukkah: no - does that route the audio over the serial cable? |
| 16:45.41 | SpeedEvil | This is what a 'voice modem' typically is. |
| 16:45.50 | SpeedEvil | It sends the data over a serial link. |
| 16:45.56 | SpeedEvil | the serial link |
| 16:46.01 | tuukkah | dcorking, no, i thought the docs say without a semicolon it will be a data call or something |
| 16:46.03 | SpeedEvil | not over seperate audio sockets |
| 16:46.11 | *** join/#openmoko ccmiracles (i=thwyg@220.171.197.159) |
| 16:46.32 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: that is the case for a POTS voice modem - is it also true for a GSM 'voice modem' if such a thing exists? |
| 16:46.44 | SpeedEvil | dcorking: yes |
| 16:46.53 | SpeedEvil | dcorking: the GSM modem on the neo can't do this. |
| 16:47.12 | SpeedEvil | You can only get the audio out via analog lines |
| 16:47.25 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: that is good to know |
| 16:47.33 | galexande | luckily the neo has the extra circuitry to be a voice mode |
| 16:47.34 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, do we have adc on the lines? |
| 16:47.50 | SpeedEvil | Lots |
| 16:47.54 | dcorking | what extra circuitry galexande ? |
| 16:48.02 | SpeedEvil | Calls can be essentially routed through the CPU |
| 16:48.03 | galexande | dcorking, the sound chip in the moko does just about everything you could imagine |
| 16:48.08 | SpeedEvil | you can do all sorts of wierdness |
| 16:48.10 | mjr | the codec can route gsm audio data to the SoC though so we can do stuff anyway |
| 16:48.15 | galexande | i wish i could remember ewhere it was documented on the wiki |
| 16:48.21 | mjr | yeah |
| 16:48.35 | mjr | (laglaglag) |
| 16:48.38 | dcorking | that is amazing - we just need to dream up wierd stuff |
| 16:49.08 | galexande | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem |
| 16:49.13 | SpeedEvil | For example - anyone you know has an annoyingly high voice? |
| 16:49.21 | dcorking | lol |
| 16:49.24 | SpeedEvil | Want to set up a per-caller pitch bender? |
| 16:49.28 | *** join/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 16:49.29 | SpeedEvil | So that they don't anymore. |
| 16:49.31 | galexande | basically, it will do dac and adc simultaneously to/from any sources you want, with pass-through between them too |
| 16:49.54 | galexande | so you can route calls to software (necessary for bluetooth), speakerphone, the little speaker by your ear, whatever.. |
| 16:49.55 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host8-57-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:50.00 | galexande | all of the above |
| 16:50.18 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, put some evilspeed on the moko shipment! |
| 16:50.18 | daMaestro | lo |
| 16:50.22 | daMaestro | grrr rofl |
| 16:50.35 | galexande | oh yeah! it's stereo! |
| 16:50.47 | galexande | and gsm isn't, so basically you can do two streams at once |
| 16:50.54 | galexande | so you can have it pitch shifting the incoming voice *and* the outgoing voice |
| 16:50.55 | galexande | i think |
| 16:51.08 | galexande | you can wreak all sorts of havoc with this chip |
| 16:51.38 | mjr | yeah you can manipulate both directions of a call independently, or at least that's been promised to us :] |
| 16:51.41 | dcorking | pitch shifting sounds fun - but it also sounds great for boring things like recording calls |
| 16:51.49 | mjr | dcorking, *nod* |
| 16:51.53 | galexande | yeah that's the more realistic thing...recording calls, pbx software, and so on |
| 16:52.07 | galexande | pitch shifting would strain its little arm :) |
| 16:52.09 | SpeedEvil | What would be _so_ cool would be voice recognition. |
| 16:52.15 | SpeedEvil | You're in a meeting. |
| 16:52.20 | SpeedEvil | You can't take the call. |
| 16:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko alUrdun_ (n=jordan@d207-216-11-165.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 16:52.26 | dcorking | pbx software -1 - that should be on a fixed line not a radio |
| 16:52.26 | galexande | "Hostname, save my calls." |
| 16:52.27 | SpeedEvil | Your phone is on the desk in front of you. |
| 16:52.40 | SpeedEvil | It prints the speech as it happens on the display. |
| 16:52.44 | galexande | name your phone something like "edda" and people will think you're talking to your secretary |
| 16:52.59 | carrar | use festival ;) |
| 16:53.02 | dcorking | for people who haven't discovered SMS yet! |
| 16:53.12 | SpeedEvil | Festival is the reverse problem though. |
| 16:53.14 | galexande | dcording, i agree entirely, but i haven't seen a day goby where asterix hasn't been mentioned here |
| 16:53.16 | galexande | asterisk? |
| 16:53.19 | ewon | "secure!" |
| 16:53.23 | ewon | *phone combusts* |
| 16:53.40 | dcorking | i think we should set up a bot to answer the asterisk question |
| 16:53.44 | galexande | "I said answer, not secure, you useless piece of brick-phone" |
| 16:53.49 | SpeedEvil | Also - what would be very good is just general text searching of incoming calls. |
| 16:54.07 | galexande | yeah, it would be awesome beyond awesome if i had a log of all my conversations to grep |
| 16:54.14 | ewon | what would be nice would be to pump incoming sms's through festival - handy whilst driving |
| 16:54.19 | galexande | god, and it could listen to the environment around it |
| 16:54.21 | galexande | i'm in love |
| 16:54.44 | SpeedEvil | Asterix is a series of french comic books... |
| 16:55.04 | dcorking | it could blend a callers voice with music, feed it back to them, and be a rather disturbing karaoke |
| 16:55.05 | galexande | i could be like "computer, where did I hear the quote ''hasta lavista'' and it would say ''2:30pm yesterday'' and i could say ''play back'' and it would play me the closing credits of terminator :) |
| 16:55.15 | carrar | hahah |
| 16:55.26 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 16:55.28 | carrar | gonna need more memory for that :) |
| 16:55.29 | don-o | did someone say *blend*? ;) |
| 16:55.30 | galexande | and i'd be like "oh yeah, i watched terminator yesterday. thanks for reminding me, my brain outside my brain!" |
| 16:55.33 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@pool-96-224-162-156.nycmny.east.verizon.net) |
| 16:55.38 | galexande | carrar, it takes microsd!! |
| 16:55.59 | SpeedEvil | For that - I want a camera, goggles, and facial recognition. |
| 16:56.00 | carrar | a continues vox recording, indexed ino a db with words |
| 16:56.06 | SpeedEvil | I'm terrible for people recognition. |
| 16:56.17 | SpeedEvil | Having their names floating above their heads would help lots. |
| 16:56.22 | galexande | and audio can easily be encoded down to 7kbytes/sec, which is only like 600MB/day |
| 16:56.47 | carrar | would love to run postgres on a cell phone |
| 16:56.57 | galexande | carrar, heh, freak |
| 16:56.59 | woglinde | carrar why? |
| 16:57.03 | woglinde | use sqlite |
| 16:57.09 | galexande | i'm sure postgres would ruun fine :) |
| 16:57.10 | carrar | cause I could!!! |
| 16:57.12 | galexande | (but i would use sqlite) |
| 16:57.20 | carrar | backup some small db's to my cell phone |
| 16:57.24 | galexande | i mean, 128MB...jeesh. for the longest time my virtual host was 128MB RAM |
| 16:57.31 | *** join/#openmoko h1pp1e (i=ganimede@unaffiliated/h1pp1e) |
| 16:57.42 | h1pp1e | hi everybody |
| 16:57.44 | galexande | and we ran mysql, apache, a dozen screens, and everything |
| 16:57.49 | carrar | put my ham radio contact logs on my cell |
| 16:57.51 | ferric | so, no news from fic regarding shipments? |
| 16:57.52 | h1pp1e | i have a question !! |
| 16:57.58 | galexande | ferric, the 16th :) |
| 16:58.08 | ferric | no new news, ie. :-) |
| 16:58.20 | ferric | has anyone received the 'second' email? |
| 16:58.30 | galexande | yeah |
| 16:58.31 | h1pp1e | i want a openmoko bot i live in mexico |
| 16:58.31 | carrar | I gave up ordering one |
| 16:58.34 | galexande | nothing new |
| 16:58.36 | carrar | tried twice |
| 16:58.47 | don-o | no news about quantity or if its sold out, either. |
| 16:59.08 | don-o | the FIC guys have gone back to radio-silence, as far as i can tell, just like before the 9th. |
| 16:59.18 | ferric | h1pp1e: so, order one? |
| 16:59.23 | galexande | yeah i think they don't like to talk when they have notihng to say |
| 16:59.28 | ScaredyCat | they're in Barbados ;) |
| 16:59.30 | galexande | they "open source" their rumor management to folks like us :) |
| 16:59.32 | SpeedEvil | micke y mentioned that they were all sold out. |
| 16:59.36 | carrar | asian culture |
| 16:59.43 | SpeedEvil | but we guessed that already. |
| 16:59.51 | carrar | they will talk when they are ready |
| 16:59.52 | ferric | SpeedEvil: all sold out at rt # what? |
| 17:00.00 | SpeedEvil | Now |
| 17:00.01 | h1pp1e | i have a few questions about openmoko cellphone GSM compatibility... |
| 17:00.02 | galexande | i'm satisfied that they announced the 9th, then didn't say anything, and released on the 9th |
| 17:00.03 | parag0n | they'll arrive and be loaded with windows CE :P |
| 17:00.07 | SpeedEvil | well - a couple of hours ago |
| 17:00.10 | carrar | hahha |
| 17:00.24 | galexande | silence so far seems to imply adherence to stated deadlines |
| 17:00.40 | mjr | h1pp1e, it's compatible with gsm, yes. Other questions? |
| 17:00.46 | dcorking | h1pp1e: then you are in the right place to ask |
| 17:00.47 | don-o | if its really sold out, that should be announced. the website doesnt say anything about it and the Shop is still open. |
| 17:00.47 | galexande | paragon, if it's wince booted by u-boot then i'm still a happy customer |
| 17:01.11 | *** part/#openmoko ccmiracles (i=thwyg@220.171.197.159) |
| 17:01.40 | h1pp1e | thanks ferric, I want to buy one, but I need to know if you could send me to Mexico |
| 17:01.59 | *** join/#openmoko soccerpirate4 (i=8f450331@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-643cc7c0775960e6) |
| 17:02.23 | h1pp1e | I didn't see in country list |
| 17:02.34 | don-o | has the community mailing list gone dead? the last post was yesterday |
| 17:03.28 | tuukkah | h1pp1e, simply go here to order, Mexico is in the list: https://direct.openmoko.com/ |
| 17:03.33 | galexande | i think we're just at the eye of the storm |
| 17:03.49 | dcorking | michaelpo: fwiw the official GSM AT command set is here http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/archive/07_series/07.07/0707-780.zip - but as SpeedEvil says, the Neo cannot be a voice modem - though the Neo could do even smarter if it had suitable open software (as galexande pointed out) |
| 17:04.00 | *** join/#openmoko taslack__ (n=taslack@umma162.dn66.umontana.edu) |
| 17:04.21 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-74-132.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 17:05.05 | mjr | "cannot be a voice modem" - highly up to interpretation; it can _do_ anything a voice modem can, really... |
| 17:05.16 | galexande | the neo can, but the gsm chipset won't |
| 17:05.21 | mjr | so I'd call it capable :] |
| 17:05.23 | mjr | yeah |
| 17:05.34 | h1pp1e | What's the difference between a $300 and $450 dlls openmoko phone (neo base) ? |
| 17:05.35 | aloril | h1pp1e: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:06.01 | galexande | hippie, the important part is the jtag debug board, which is necessary if you break u-boot, and can be handy for kernel driver development |
| 17:06.09 | galexande | most users won't need it |
| 17:06.12 | ferric | well, i can understand why they're not claiming to be sold out |
| 17:06.25 | ferric | they're just going to restart the assembly line, produce more 1713's |
| 17:06.30 | galexande | yeah |
| 17:06.37 | ferric | so there might be a 2month delay but you'll get one |
| 17:07.13 | ferric | also, i think that their cause has been helped by the iphone.... i would not have spent $300 on a phone 6 months ago (wireless carrier subisidies) |
| 17:07.46 | flingpoo | Yeah, all other phones suddenly seem a lot cheaper. |
| 17:07.56 | galexande | i'm spending $300 on a palmtop :) |
| 17:08.12 | h1pp1e | And the difference between Neo1973 GTA01B_v04 and Neo1973 GTA02? |
| 17:08.21 | ferric | h1pp1e: its on the wiki |
| 17:08.28 | galexande | spending $300 on a palmtop is normal to me, i only haven't done it because i never carry palmtops around with me |
| 17:08.33 | galexande | but if it's built into my phone, i can't leave it at home :) |
| 17:08.59 | ferric | yeah, palmtops are limited |
| 17:09.03 | ferric | i suppose with wifi they're ok |
| 17:09.05 | galexande | my creditcard is still uncharged *sigh* |
| 17:09.25 | galexande | i decided my next palmtop would have wireless and SD, and neo has both :) |
| 17:09.36 | galexande | hippie, GTA02 will be faster and add 802.11b |
| 17:10.59 | ferric | did someone say that most of the code will come out of people with emulators? |
| 17:12.15 | tuukkah | a moment ago it was said that currently more code comes from those people who set up emulators than those who wait for their phone to arrive |
| 17:12.26 | ferric | ah |
| 17:12.35 | ferric | tuukkah: that was very formal of you |
| 17:12.36 | ferric | heh |
| 17:13.01 | galexande | i just meant that i won't produce any code until i get my device :) |
| 17:13.03 | *** part/#openmoko michaelpo (n=presario@60.53.35.80) |
| 17:13.14 | ferric | galexande: really? |
| 17:13.19 | galexande | whereas if i had a woody for emulators, i could be plying with it already. |
| 17:13.33 | tuukkah | ferric, wanted to formulate it clearly indeed :-) |
| 17:13.47 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@81.198.61.143) |
| 17:13.48 | mjr | you don't need an emulator to play with it |
| 17:13.58 | ferric | so, the OS is there but the UI is missing. would that be correct? |
| 17:14.07 | galexande | mjr, does mokomakefile build all the openmoko-blah things for x86 as well? |
| 17:14.19 | ferric | mjr: what do you need then? |
| 17:14.23 | *** part/#openmoko Plouj (n=Plouj@207.112.66.5) |
| 17:14.29 | mjr | anyway, I'm waiting on the device as well, to boost my motivational levels, which aren't generally that high |
| 17:14.32 | galexande | ferric, yeah pretty close...device drivers are there...i think most of the stateful daemons are kind of there |
| 17:14.35 | Stephmw | dammit. I missed another j2me smackdown |
| 17:14.45 | woglinde | stephmw? |
| 17:15.24 | woglinde | stephmw I have now bb recpie for caco-cldc1.1 running |
| 17:15.30 | woglinde | cacao |
| 17:15.36 | *** join/#openmoko cel (n=cel@86.59.65.236) |
| 17:15.46 | woglinde | but only native so far |
| 17:15.52 | Stephmw | woglinde: someone earlier was complaining that no j2me games he'd tried would work on his (existing) phone |
| 17:15.58 | Stephmw | woglinde: great :) |
| 17:16.09 | galexande | damn, reproducable mokomakefile problem, and i'm way too lazy to grok it |
| 17:16.10 | woglinde | crosscompilig next step |
| 17:16.31 | woglinde | but it cost me some nerv with false leading docu from cacao and classpath |
| 17:16.41 | tuukkah | blindcoder, which instructions worked for you? |
| 17:18.30 | untwisted | hola friends |
| 17:18.44 | blindcoder | tuukkah: the MokoMakefile wiki page |
| 17:18.52 | blindcoder | tuukkah: although I had to fix a few things manually |
| 17:19.34 | blindcoder | currently I'm trying to get an application of my own included |
| 17:19.46 | blindcoder | with no documentation on how to do it, yay |
| 17:20.10 | galexande | blind, please use the wiki as you learn :) |
| 17:20.16 | galexande | (one bitbake noob to another) |
| 17:20.38 | blindcoder | galexande: I've seen earlier today that there is information on www.openembedded.org |
| 17:20.44 | blindcoder | galexande: too bad that site is dead right now |
| 17:21.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2377 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (2 files in 2 dirs): * Enable CONFIG_RTC_HCTOSYS option to retrieve time from the RTC on boot |
| 17:21.17 | tuukkah | blindcoder, do you meant the part about simply running "make qemu" and it try to do everything? |
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| 17:21.59 | blindcoder | tuukkah: yeah |
| 17:22.34 | blindcoder | can someone here tell me how to write a rudimentary bb file? |
| 17:22.51 | blindcoder | I edited the openmoko-stylus-demo sources to be a 'new' program |
| 17:23.00 | blindcoder | and would like to have that as a new package now |
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| 17:23.13 | guerby | hmm just got a bounce from sales@openmoko.com 'Remote host said: 451 Could not complete sender verify callout' |
| 17:23.27 | guerby | any openmoko insider around? |
| 17:23.44 | woglinde | no |
| 17:23.46 | woglinde | not atm |
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| 17:24.16 | guerby | woglinde, ok |
| 17:24.38 | guerby | gota run, c u |
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| 17:26.55 | tuukkah | blindcoder, i don't see anything about rsync'ing? |
| 17:28.15 | blindcoder | tuukkah: that was something else |
| 17:28.28 | blindcoder | tuukkah: I rsync'ed the _compiled_ version to my local desktop |
| 17:28.59 | tuukkah | are there precompiled binaries available somewhere? |
| 17:29.31 | blindcoder | good question |
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| 17:32.07 | blindcoder | hmm |
| 17:32.22 | blindcoder | 'cd build ; bitbake mokoscribble' builds it, but 'make all' doesn't :( |
| 17:32.45 | *** part/#openmoko taslack__ (n=taslack@umma162.dn66.umontana.edu) |
| 17:32.46 | CM | tuukkah: Look around http://downloads.openmoko.org/ maybe :) |
| 17:34.10 | untwisted | anyone here actually coded something for the openmoko yet? |
| 17:34.23 | blindcoder | untwisted: I'm trying to :/ |
| 17:34.24 | galexande | what have i coded not for the openmoko, man? |
| 17:34.35 | galexande | i should build our mainframe cross-compiler for openmoko :) |
| 17:34.41 | untwisted | blindcoder: whatcha workin on? |
| 17:34.42 | CM | The Calculator in the curren OM version is made by some guy on the mailinglist at least |
| 17:34.47 | blindcoder | untwisted: miserably failing to even get it to register my package, but trying |
| 17:35.04 | blindcoder | untwisted: trying to get MokoMakefile to register my package right now |
| 17:35.19 | untwisted | blindcoder: bummer, whatcha running on? |
| 17:35.28 | blindcoder | untwisted: GNU/Linux |
| 17:35.41 | blindcoder | and I have no effing clue about bitbake and openembedded |
| 17:35.48 | blindcoder | and the openembedded site has died |
| 17:35.51 | CM | untwisted: Btw, Strung Out are warming up for DKM :D |
| 17:36.11 | untwisted | blindcoder: Heard any reports of troubles with OS X? All my other boxen are gnu/linux but I like to work on my lappletop. |
| 17:36.19 | untwisted | CM: Nice! :D have fun!!! |
| 17:36.31 | blindcoder | untwisted: I don't follow macosx stuff |
| 17:37.20 | untwisted | blindcoder: Righto. I think I might give a go at a simple game. |
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| 17:38.38 | blindcoder | untwisted: tictactoe! |
| 17:38.52 | blindcoder | untwisted: to be played with another over bt! |
| 17:39.06 | blindcoder | untwisted: and then 'sink ships' (no idea of english name) |
| 17:39.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU_on_MacOSX]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU/it]] [[Neo1973]] [[FAQ]] [[Neo1973/ru]] [[Running_OpenMoko_on_PC/it]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo/it]] [[Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo/it]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr/it]] |
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| 17:42.09 | SpeedEvil | blindcoder: battleships |
| 17:42.35 | SpeedEvil | blindcoder: if 3,4,5 length ships at hidden positions on a few*few board |
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| 17:43.27 | cayco | hi everyone! does anyone experience problem with lists.openmoko.org? I did not receive any message since yesterday (it was ok for months...) |
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| 17:43.28 | aloril | cayco: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 17:43.39 | untwisted | ug |
| 17:43.42 | untwisted | pidgin died |
| 17:43.45 | galexande | why is DBUS_GLIB_BIN = $(OMDIR)/build/tmp/staging/arm-linux/bin |
| 17:43.45 | galexande | shouldn't it be $(OMDIR)/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/bin/ ? |
| 17:43.48 | galexande | blind, battleships! |
| 17:43.50 | galexande | you sank my battleship! |
| 17:43.54 | galexande | hey holy flying poop, I just edited a Makefile (not the Makefile.in or Makefile.am) in openmoko-dialer, and MokoMakefile just went with it |
| 17:43.57 | galexande | i might make it through this today |
| 17:43.59 | galexande | cayco, om.org has been way overloaded, but maybe no one is talking since there's nothing to say until it ships |
| 17:44.29 | cayco | well i check on http://lists.openmoko.org and there are some mails since yesterday |
| 17:44.32 | galexande | does sean m-p ever make an appearance on irc? |
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| 17:45.33 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: yeah, that one |
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| 17:48.39 | SpeedEvil | galexande: basically not. |
| 17:48.45 | SpeedEvil | He did once or twice. |
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| 17:59.55 | notserpe | this silence is terribe. |
| 18:00.03 | notserpe | s/terribe/terrible/ |
| 18:00.12 | MacNorth | no to mention the last planet entry :-\ |
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| 18:05.48 | galexande | there are so many possible back-stories to that entry though |
| 18:06.22 | MacNorth | same with the silence from fic :-) |
| 18:07.28 | blindcoder | ETOOMANYRUMORS |
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| 18:07.53 | galexande | heh |
| 18:07.56 | MacNorth | no rumors yet, but the abundance of unknowns is a good breeding ground |
| 18:09.31 | blindcoder | HAH! |
| 18:09.40 | blindcoder | my package is built now by MokoMakefile |
| 18:09.47 | blindcoder | and - probably - even included in the rootfs |
| 18:09.53 | don-o | blindcoder: awesome! what does the package do |
| 18:10.03 | blindcoder | don-o: currently, nothing :-) |
| 18:10.14 | blindcoder | don-o: I'm just starting to get friendly with the whole build process |
| 18:10.32 | blindcoder | don-o: so much stuff which is - from my perspective - totally braindamaged |
| 18:10.38 | blindcoder | don-o: but I slowly wrap my mind around it |
| 18:10.40 | untwisted | anyone else wonder if someone will buy them an openmoko because they're an awesome person and don't have the money atm? because I am ;) |
| 18:10.57 | don-o | blindcoder: a wiki page of 'how to start a new project and integrate it into mokemakefile' would be cool |
| 18:11.09 | blindcoder | untwisted: hah, I'll just take LaF0rge hostage once he's back in berlin :D |
| 18:11.10 | galexande | i don't think it's braindamaged, i think it's overbuilt :) |
| 18:11.23 | blindcoder | don-o: there is, on the openembedded.org site, but that's dead right now :/ |
| 18:11.40 | untwisted | blindcoder: Ok, I'll keep my mouth shut if you send me one too ;) |
| 18:11.44 | don-o | blindcoder: ok |
| 18:11.48 | blindcoder | galexande: I'm just used to another distribution build kit which I think is totally awesome, but after 5 years of working with it, I might be biased :) |
| 18:13.20 | galexande | blind, which one? |
| 18:13.26 | blindcoder | galexande: ROCK Linux |
| 18:13.34 | galexande | new to me |
| 18:14.26 | galexande | my experience is with debian, where i build just the package i need, and someone far away with a bigger computer does the batch build for all the different platforms |
| 18:14.26 | galexande | so this bitbake/openembedded mentality of every developer doing huge batch builds of everything, it is scary to me |
| 18:14.27 | galexande | and my hard disks |
| 18:14.46 | MacNorth | esp for the hard disks |
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| 18:15.29 | galexande | the neatest thing about openmoko is the cross libs are all up to date...keeping a copy of the cross libs up to date with what was on familiar was a real pain in the butt |
| 18:16.10 | MacNorth | hopefully the fic crew will find a better way to distribute the software |
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| 18:16.45 | don-o | exactly. i think a self-update tool is a big hole in the process right now |
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| 18:18.53 | blindcoder | I guess the update mechanism for non-devs will be memory flashes |
| 18:19.07 | blindcoder | for devs I think the process is okay |
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| 18:19.45 | don-o | have there been posts to the community list today? its been dead for me. |
| 18:19.45 | MacNorth | since the neo comes with a microSD card, i hope that new packages go there |
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| 18:20.12 | tuukkah | there are some binary packages here: http://downloads.openmoko.org/tmp/neo1973/ipk/ |
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| 18:21.06 | tuukkah | ipk is like deb but for embedded devices, right? |
| 18:21.14 | MacNorth | afaik, yes |
| 18:21.34 | freskog | anyone know what the status of openmoko-libs is? |
| 18:22.00 | freskog | seems like there's been some stuff done on openmokoui and openmokogsmd |
| 18:22.08 | freskog | but i can't find anything else. |
| 18:22.39 | freskog | or did i just make a mistake checking out from svn last time? |
| 18:23.09 | tuukkah | so ipkg install new-app; or ipkg update && ipkg upgrade |
| 18:23.21 | galexande | tuukkah, yup, that's how it worked in familiar |
| 18:23.40 | galexande | as i recall the .ipk packages are even packed the same, as an ar with a data.tar.gz and a control.tar.gz |
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| 18:24.00 | tuukkah | and those files on the server are a hint it could work the same way on openmoko |
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| 18:27.03 | tuukkah | oh the faq has this link: http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Ipkg |
| 18:27.51 | don-o | heh. the 'itsy' package management system |
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| 18:28.30 | tuukkah | i could practise on my wrt54gs |
| 18:28.34 | don-o | the neo is not so resource restrained. i hope it has the dependency-smarts of dpkg. |
| 18:28.49 | don-o | if not, id rather user dpkg/apt |
| 18:29.01 | blindcoder | tuukkah: no practising on devices I heavily rely on ;) |
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| 18:29.19 | galexande | i generally did not find ipkg upgrade to be as troublefree as apt-get upgrade |
| 18:29.24 | galexande | not that either is fun |
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| 18:29.40 | galexande | don-o, it does have at least some dependency smarts |
| 18:30.01 | PBeck | hi |
| 18:30.01 | don-o | galexande: thats a relief. |
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| 18:31.26 | tuukkah | whether upgrade is a pain or not depends on the quality of the packaging - this is why debian and apt shine |
| 18:31.45 | blindcoder | \o/ |
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| 18:31.49 | blindcoder | the program is on the rootfs :D |
| 18:31.50 | galexande | tuukkah, yeah, and why they've been nothing but pain for the last two years :) |
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| 18:32.27 | tuukkah | galexande, what are we thinking of now? |
| 18:33.59 | tuukkah | i remember i would've wanted dist-upgrades to be smoother than they have been, to sarge and to etch |
| 18:34.35 | cel | is it possible to use Micro SDHC Cards (>2GB) in the Neo? |
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| 18:35.41 | hozer | So when do these things ship anyway? |
| 18:36.21 | tuukkah | here's more image files: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/snapshots/2007.04/images/ |
| 18:36.59 | blindcoder | hozer: monday, we all hope |
| 18:38.14 | untwisted | blindcoder: did you order one? |
| 18:38.22 | blindcoder | untwisted: no |
| 18:38.29 | blindcoder | untwisted: shipping costs too high |
| 18:38.32 | blindcoder | untwisted: and I want wifi |
| 18:38.37 | galexande | tuukkah, i'm just whining :) for ten years i have pretty much effortlessly done whatever the least-effort upgrade path is in debian |
| 18:38.38 | untwisted | blindcoder: whats the shipping cost? |
| 18:38.43 | cel | ups stands in the wiki |
| 18:38.50 | _Qwerty_ | Whois Harald Welte, I saw the link to his blogg in here, but dident catch the context |
| 18:38.54 | possan | i have been fighting the OpenMokoMakefile for like 20h now, i finally got it to build and run with qemu, but my changes to the sourcetree is not reflected in the rootfs, i must be missing something obvious :) |
| 18:38.59 | blindcoder | untwisted: 115 + 19% VAT |
| 18:39.00 | untwisted | blindcoder: Yah, I want the wifi and the accelerometer! |
| 18:39.03 | galexande | but over the last two years, i haven't gone a week without having some huge argument with apt over whether or not i was going to spend the next three hours of my life arguing more with it |
| 18:39.26 | galexande | it's become practically routine to pull old versions of packages out of the repository by hand to satisfy bizarre dependency loops and so on |
| 18:39.37 | untwisted | blindcoder: damn! That sucks! I hope its not as expensive over here |
| 18:40.40 | tuukkah | untwisted, try to fill in the order form and you'll see |
| 18:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 18:41.54 | hozer | blindcoder: do you know where it ships from? |
| 18:41.58 | blindcoder | okay, my program is on the rootfs and can be started from the terminal |
| 18:42.03 | blindcoder | hozer: california IIRC |
| 18:42.21 | blindcoder | now to add functionality to it tomorrow ;) |
| 18:42.21 | empty_mind | blindcoder, lol |
| 18:42.47 | don-o | hozer: fremont,ca (san francisco basically) |
| 18:43.02 | mjr | blindcoder, ooh :) |
| 18:43.04 | blindcoder | empty_mind: not funny, took me all day now |
| 18:43.30 | don-o | im curious as to what version, if any, is pre-flashed to the neo |
| 18:43.32 | hozer | I have been thinking that putting an AFS (distributed filesystem) client on the phone and making the disconnected operation code in openafs would be a killer app for a phone |
| 18:43.37 | empty_mind | blindcoder, oh i was not laughing on your code but on California answer |
| 18:43.45 | hozer | err, making the disconnected operation code *work* |
| 18:43.48 | blindcoder | empty_mind: oh, sorry :) |
| 18:44.32 | blindcoder | empty_mind: also, my knowledge of US topology is... incomplete to say the least :) |
| 18:44.48 | tuukkah | empty_mind, what's funny about california ?-) |
| 18:45.33 | galexande | hozer, does afs ever work for anyone? |
| 18:46.29 | untwisted | hmmm, only $12.71 shipping :) |
| 18:46.35 | galexande | untwisted, ^5 |
| 18:46.41 | galexande | go team usa!! |
| 18:46.57 | galexande | (sorry, it is so hard to find something to justify patriotism anymore) |
| 18:47.05 | don-o | galexande: lol |
| 18:47.14 | blindcoder | hehe |
| 18:47.22 | blindcoder | 115 here for the advanced version *snif* |
| 18:47.29 | untwisted | galexande: Haha, thats a good point. GO TEAM USA :P |
| 18:47.32 | blindcoder | I'm really hoping for EU/Germany distribution for 02 |
| 18:47.49 | don-o | we rule at being the final shipping destination of a pre-production linux phone |
| 18:48.09 | SpeedEvil | Built and concieved in Taiwan :) |
| 18:48.25 | galexande | blindcoder, the news is that it won't necessarily be ready by october |
| 18:48.34 | untwisted | NOOOO! |
| 18:48.35 | SpeedEvil | Hardware - prolly will. |
| 18:48.43 | SpeedEvil | IMO |
| 18:48.47 | galexande | but i don't honestly think gta02 will be ready by october |
| 18:48.48 | galexande | sooo |
| 18:48.53 | don-o | reminds me of the quote from the movie Armageddon where the russian cosmonaut says 'Russian parts... American parts... All made in Taiwan!' |
| 18:49.02 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@x-net.hu) |
| 18:49.09 | don-o | galexande: october? you _are_ an optimist. |
| 18:49.21 | untwisted | Ho hum, well I guess I may have to buy the dev version for sure then |
| 18:49.33 | don-o | galexande: oh honestly dont think. never mind. sheesh. :( |
| 18:49.54 | blindcoder | well, 700 bucks for a sub-par phone is just too much for me |
| 18:50.02 | ferric | lol sub-par |
| 18:50.03 | blindcoder | I'll wait til january, too |
| 18:50.17 | ferric | there's a reason it's called a developer preview. |
| 18:50.25 | blindcoder | yeah, indeed |
| 18:50.41 | ferric | like they say, if you can't add signal, don't add noise. :P |
| 18:51.08 | blindcoder | and while I like programming and already have my whole dev environment set up, I'll still hold out for 02 |
| 18:51.21 | hozer | galexande: I'm running my home directory on AFS ;) |
| 18:51.27 | blindcoder | ferric: well, sorry for saying anything. guess 70% of the chatting audience sholud probably just go now, yeah? |
| 18:51.42 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 18:51.42 | hozer | and more importantly for a phone, all my music (ogg and mp3 format) is on afs |
| 18:52.16 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 18:52.23 | ferric | blindcoder: yep |
| 18:52.36 | *** join/#openmoko ChumleyEX (n=none@cpe-72-178-79-134.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 18:52.41 | myk_ | any news on order confirmations? i still haven't received mine |
| 18:52.49 | ferric | myk_: not even the rt email? |
| 18:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko alUrdun_ (n=jordan@d207-216-11-165.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 18:52.54 | blindcoder | ferric: well, tough luck. I'm here to stay :P |
| 18:53.13 | ferric | blindcoder: and if anyone asks what happened to 70% of the chatting audience, just say, ferric killed them all. |
| 18:53.13 | myk_ | ferric: i received the rt auto-reply; it said i'd get an order confirmation within 24 hours; that was 3 days ago |
| 18:53.13 | ChumleyEX | I heard that customs will hold them for a little while |
| 18:53.24 | ferric | myk_: no one has heard back afaik. |
| 18:53.26 | blindcoder | ferric: hooray, someone to blame :D |
| 18:53.29 | ferric | myk_: what was your rt#? |
| 18:53.43 | ferric | ChumleyEX: heard? from where? |
| 18:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=erdinger@e181241034.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:54.06 | ChumleyEX | it was on howardforums |
| 18:54.09 | ChumleyEX | not sure where they got that from |
| 18:54.24 | dcordes | woohoo 343 nicks popularity rising :) |
| 18:54.25 | ChumleyEX | but most things came from the freemoko org site |
| 18:54.26 | ferric | those idiots |
| 18:54.41 | ferric | dcordes: i fear this is buzz generated traffic |
| 18:54.47 | ChumleyEX | what country are you in |
| 18:55.24 | ferric | US |
| 18:55.26 | myk_ | ferric: #1987 |
| 18:55.42 | myk_ | ChumleyEX: US customs will probably want to make sure they're edible before letting them into the country |
| 18:55.50 | ChumleyEX | well I know customs between CA and US takes awhile |
| 18:55.51 | ChumleyEX | lol |
| 18:56.21 | myk_ | strangely, i haven't received any messages from the openmoko mailing lists this morning |
| 18:56.27 | myk_ | usually i'd have received dozens by now |
| 18:56.43 | galexande | yeah the ML seems to be down |
| 18:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko vedran (n=vedran@133-32.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 18:56.49 | blindcoder | myk_: I guess tehy'll do the blender test :D |
| 18:57.05 | myk_ | blindcoder: right! :-) |
| 18:59.39 | ynezz | seems like everything died, no commits... |
| 18:59.44 | ynezz | :p |
| 18:59.52 | ferric | myk_: nice. |
| 18:59.55 | blindcoder | they probably got one hell of a hangover |
| 19:00.06 | ferric | myk_: the lists are down |
| 19:00.14 | ferric | they got slashdotted. |
| 19:00.19 | myk_ | aha |
| 19:00.27 | ferric | oh wow. the howardforums thread has turned into bullshit. |
| 19:00.50 | ChumleyEX | yeah some fool went off on a guy |
| 19:00.59 | ChumleyEX | I wonder how many hours he has left |
| 19:01.08 | ferric | lol |
| 19:01.12 | *** join/#openmoko nil (n=nico@bethuel.ann.jussieu.fr) |
| 19:01.43 | ChumleyEX | it made for a good read while I was at work |
| 19:03.49 | unknown_lamer | hozer: openafs on openmoko? We're on the same page there :-) |
| 19:03.53 | unknown_lamer | mmm networking over bt2.0 |
| 19:03.57 | *** join/#openmoko guest (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 19:04.35 | don-o | unknown_lamer: yeah i want to rock the moko world with adhoc bt networking |
| 19:05.01 | don-o | CSR BlueCore. yeah! |
| 19:05.01 | unknown_lamer | don-o: I have the rough beginnings of stuff to use emacs as a control server on my workstation |
| 19:05.09 | mjr | yay for bnep pans |
| 19:05.13 | unknown_lamer | don-o: just send elisp from the phone -> emacs and let it control my entire house |
| 19:05.26 | don-o | mjr: bnep? |
| 19:05.32 | don-o | unknown_lamer: freaky. |
| 19:05.34 | unknown_lamer | once I get my hands on a neo then I can write a little ui for it |
| 19:05.42 | unknown_lamer | a grid of buttons probably |
| 19:05.52 | unknown_lamer | it helps when you use emms and such :-) |
| 19:06.14 | blindcoder | sounds fun |
| 19:06.20 | blindcoder | just need to wire my house then :D |
| 19:07.00 | unknown_lamer | I want to get some stuff set up with the phone notifying me of new IMs and such as well |
| 19:07.26 | unknown_lamer | so then I can wander about reading and such and not be tied to the workstation when I have to talk to e.g. work 'sometime today' |
| 19:07.27 | ChumleyEX | wouldn't it be better to just get the IM's? |
| 19:07.28 | aloril | ChumleyEX: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:08.01 | ChumleyEX | that just blew my mind |
| 19:08.02 | ferric | i wonder if it's easier to put that url in the topic than send it to everyone that comes in and asks a question? |
| 19:08.06 | ferric | :) |
| 19:08.26 | ferric | scratch that, i don't think anyone reads the topic |
| 19:08.34 | blindcoder | whassa to-pick? |
| 19:09.57 | galexande | i don't think anyone reads the faq either :) |
| 19:10.25 | mjr | don-o, Bluetooth Network Encapsulation Protocol |
| 19:11.04 | unknown_lamer | ChumleyEX: depends |
| 19:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko neddy (n=js152033@192.18.43.225) |
| 19:11.38 | unknown_lamer | ChumleyEX: but it's easier to get the message received notifications (gaim-dbus) and then add that later |
| 19:11.40 | galexande | holy poopsticks, batman: NOTE: build 200707111339: completed |
| 19:11.58 | blindcoder | galexande: hehe |
| 19:12.05 | possan | haha |
| 19:12.22 | blindcoder | anyway, kids |
| 19:12.23 | galexande | as muuch as i whine, building every single package for openmoko was less work than just building the arm-linux-elf gcc cross-dev tools was for familiar (handhelds.org) |
| 19:12.24 | blindcoder | naptime |
| 19:12.40 | galexande | though it took a lot more cpu time :) |
| 19:12.55 | blindcoder | galexande: now have fun editing/adding packages until I put up the steps I did tomorrow :D |
| 19:13.40 | ChumleyEX | any of you actually have one |
| 19:18.35 | *** join/#openmoko ChumleyEX (n=none@cpe-72-178-79-134.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 19:18.43 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko neko__ (n=chatzill@80.243.90.2) |
| 19:19.55 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 19:21.40 | trains | hi |
| 19:22.36 | trains | does anyone have any ideia about the meaning of the last post by Harald "LaF0rge" Welte in openmoko planet |
| 19:23.48 | galexande | trains, as tempting as it is to make up rumors, no |
| 19:24.13 | Rince | only our fantasy as always |
| 19:24.19 | galexande | presumably the stress of managing a manufacturing is getting to harald (who is, after all, a kernel hacker, not a project manager) |
| 19:24.38 | ChumleyEX | maybe even the fact that it's all starting to happen |
| 19:25.08 | *** join/#openmoko paron_work (n=user@66.100.151.132) |
| 19:25.19 | trains | i ordered a phone monday, and the strange thing is that they didn't charged my credit card yet |
| 19:25.25 | trains | is it normal? |
| 19:25.26 | aloril | trains: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:25.37 | galexande | trains, i don't think they've charged anyone yet |
| 19:25.47 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:25.55 | ChumleyEX | maybe it's all a joke |
| 19:25.57 | galexande | some people will be delayed until the second batch, and they probably won't charge them until that's actually built |
| 19:25.59 | ChumleyEX | usb on a phone |
| 19:26.00 | ChumleyEX | never |
| 19:26.25 | DukeOfUrl | FIX shouldn't charge the credit card until the phone ships |
| 19:26.32 | DukeOfUrl | s'FIX'FIC' |
| 19:26.47 | galexande | yeah, which won't happen until jul16 |
| 19:27.40 | PBeck | hum i get no mails from the mailinglist |
| 19:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko waecky (n=waecky@p549CD2E1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:28.07 | ferric | so i've lost a bunch of confidence in FIC based on harold's post. |
| 19:28.23 | trains | it's a little freaky |
| 19:28.29 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 19:28.52 | galexande | the worst case is that some western vs. eastern communications problem means none of us will get our phones |
| 19:28.57 | galexande | in the grand scheme of things, that's not too bad |
| 19:29.05 | PBeck | give it problems with the mailinglist? |
| 19:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@77.47.0.11.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 19:29.58 | ScaredyCat | ... am I missing somehting obvious with my enulation... using Xnest, but all the graphics are missing and the font used too ... |
| 19:30.15 | ScaredyCat | it's useable, proviced I'm telepathic |
| 19:30.25 | ScaredyCat | s/proviced/provided/ |
| 19:31.10 | ferric | wow, a substitution bot! |
| 19:31.18 | ferric | s/bot/apt/ |
| 19:31.24 | trains | it's nice, isn't it? |
| 19:32.00 | ferric | s/apt/bot/ |
| 19:32.12 | ferric | heh |
| 19:32.24 | paron_work | s/heh/beh/ |
| 19:32.29 | paron_work | s/s/s/ |
| 19:32.30 | orospakr | s/@#$%^&*(*&^%$#@#$%^&*(*&^%$#@!@#$%^&*()/dfghj/ |
| 19:32.35 | trains | :) |
| 19:32.36 | orospakr | PARSE THAT |
| 19:32.58 | _llll_ | presumably it only looks at the last thing you said |
| 19:33.06 | orospakr | yeah. |
| 19:33.13 | ferric | like the last thing you said? |
| 19:33.19 | ferric | s/.*/foo/ |
| 19:33.39 | trains | nice try :) |
| 19:33.49 | ferric | but is it still working? |
| 19:33.58 | ferric | s/working/alive/ |
| 19:34.01 | _llll_ | s/presumably// |
| 19:34.38 | _llll_ | s/it/apt/ |
| 19:35.00 | ferric | ah, nice. |
| 19:35.12 | ferric | i guess the future for the neo is bleak. |
| 19:35.27 | _llll_ | whyfor? |
| 19:36.04 | hozer | unknown_lamer: yeah.. have you tried building openafs yet? |
| 19:36.27 | alUrdun_ | I wouldn't yet declare the future bleak. Although, to be honest, the death of the mailing lists shortly after the thing goes on sale is a little unsettling. |
| 19:36.39 | *** join/#openmoko jeff__ (n=jeff@71-82-26-57.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com) |
| 19:36.49 | _llll_ | wait, death of the mailing lists? what happened? |
| 19:36.54 | ferric | _llll_: http://planet.openmoko.org |
| 19:36.58 | loufoque | hozer: openafs on openmoko? |
| 19:37.14 | hozer | loufoque: I have been wanting to try that |
| 19:37.15 | ferric | alUrdun_: they're still working for some people since there's activity in the archives. |
| 19:37.24 | unknown_lamer | hozer: I don't have easy access to an arm device and am down to under a gig of free disk space so no room for the openmoko full on emulation environment |
| 19:37.29 | loufoque | hozer: look into Coda rather |
| 19:37.33 | unknown_lamer | and the lack of a local afs share until I can grab my dual 500G drives |
| 19:37.44 | hozer | loufoque: I did.. |
| 19:37.51 | ferric | so has anyone used the trolltech greenphone? |
| 19:38.00 | hozer | have you tried coda? |
| 19:38.07 | unknown_lamer | I'm pretty sure coda isn't up to par yet |
| 19:38.16 | unknown_lamer | we just got afs up at hcoop and the guy who set it up works at cmu |
| 19:38.17 | high-rez | woh, aggression? what? |
| 19:38.26 | unknown_lamer | so if cmu still reccomends afs over coda still ... |
| 19:38.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Package_management]] [[User:Myfanwy]] [[Ipk]] [[Neo1973]] [[Ipkg]] [[Ruggedized]] [[Wish_List]] [[Talk:Dialer]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 19:38.33 | loufoque | hozer: no |
| 19:38.35 | hozer | and it's never going to be up to part without a larger development community |
| 19:38.48 | loufoque | hozer: there is intermezzo too |
| 19:38.52 | high-rez | ferric: i have one here |
| 19:38.58 | hozer | loufoque: go try both of those |
| 19:39.04 | hozer | then tell me if you still think so |
| 19:39.05 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake_ (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 19:39.09 | unknown_lamer | loufoque: does intermezzo do kerberos? |
| 19:39.12 | alUrdun_ | ferric: Hmmm, a gmail-only-thing? |
| 19:39.12 | ferric | high-rez: wat do you think of it? |
| 19:39.14 | ljp | i have a greenphone |
| 19:39.24 | ferric | alUrdun_: i hope not! although i'm on gmail as well |
| 19:39.32 | ferric | s/wat/what |
| 19:39.34 | ferric | s/wat/what/ |
| 19:39.44 | hozer | okay, trust me... intermezzo and coda are useless for any data you care about |
| 19:39.54 | unknown_lamer | loufoque: cross-realming with afs makes life easier a lot of the time (e.g. add your local kerberos user to an acl at your web host and then just use cp to copy stuff instead of needing to ssh in and grab tickets there and tra la la la ) |
| 19:39.58 | ferric | ljp: what do you think of it, as well? |
| 19:39.59 | loufoque | hozer: I haven't tried them because all network solutions I had to work with needed to scale to lots of computers, be stable and efficient. |
| 19:40.18 | high-rez | ferric: Well, I'm mostly disappointed. It's not a end-user device, but when I try to make a pdp context, the GPRS chip sends back an Error. It tries five times, and then qtopia crashes (i guess because they're not handling this right). |
| 19:40.19 | hozer | they are neat research projects, but NOT usefull in any real-world application |
| 19:40.46 | hozer | what they ARE usefull for is figuring out how to do disconnected operation, and then backport those concepts to the OpenAFS codebase |
| 19:40.49 | loufoque | unknown_lamer: you could use sshfs |
| 19:40.49 | ljp | i like itm, but I am biased |
| 19:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko act1v8 (n=stojance@unaffiliated/act1v8) |
| 19:41.02 | unknown_lamer | loufoque: difficult when your kerberos principles expire after an hour |
| 19:41.05 | act1v8 | Hello! |
| 19:41.15 | high-rez | ljp: Yeah you are - when you guys gonna resolve my bug? <g> ;)) |
| 19:41.16 | ljp | it is too bad gp is so expensive |
| 19:41.41 | act1v8 | Can you tell me on which networks can OpenMoko run? T-Mobile, Cosmote group ? |
| 19:41.41 | aloril | act1v8: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:41.44 | ljp | hig-rez: send example code demonstrating it to me, and I will |
| 19:42.06 | high-rez | ljp: I sent the atchat log showing that the AT command results in an error... |
| 19:42.13 | unknown_lamer | loufoque: you also still have to either login or store your password in a keytab somewhere vs simply letting the kerberos servers talk to each other and auth you with your local principle that you got from logging in |
| 19:42.29 | high-rez | activ8: It will, tmobile and cosmote are both gsm carriers. |
| 19:42.31 | hozer | unknown_lamer: I think I met one of the hcoop guys at the last afs workhsop |
| 19:42.40 | unknown_lamer | hozer: adam megacz? |
| 19:42.43 | hozer | yeah |
| 19:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (i=friedrij@c-76-25-29-162.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:42.51 | unknown_lamer | he saved us from cclausen |
| 19:43.16 | unknown_lamer | cclausen set everything up horribly non standard and then stormed out angrily because he hates free software nuts (and the coop is mostly comprised of us ...) |
| 19:43.30 | hozer | oh geez |
| 19:43.39 | unknown_lamer | it has been a very difficult seven months of setup now :-\ |
| 19:43.48 | hozer | who else do you expect would be interested in a hosting coop than a bunch of free software nuts? ;) |
| 19:44.04 | unknown_lamer | but we're *so close* (just have to get the main afs server to boot ... kerberos is unhappy when the master goes down and there isn't a slave lying around) |
| 19:44.41 | hozer | ick.. do you have an hcoop channel on here? |
| 19:44.44 | unknown_lamer | #hcoop |
| 19:45.26 | ferric | gp is $700 yes? |
| 19:45.39 | high-rez | i think 600, or 650 |
| 19:45.42 | ferric | well i'm sure the camera adds to that cost |
| 19:45.59 | ewon | heh, afs |
| 19:46.08 | ewon | I thought only IBM used that these days |
| 19:46.25 | ferric | $695+s/h |
| 19:46.40 | ljp | ferric: yes |
| 19:47.01 | loufoque | unknown_lamer: aren't there solutions to automatically renew tickets? |
| 19:47.45 | unknown_lamer | loufoque: yeah, but that involves all sorts of funky setup vs reusing the existing auth infrastructure to Just Work (tm) |
| 19:48.14 | _llll_ | ferric: as far as i can see, the mailing lists are still there, what's the actual problem? |
| 19:48.29 | ferric | _llll_: i havent' received any email in the past 2 days. |
| 19:48.48 | _llll_ | ok, but why's that a problem? |
| 19:49.02 | _llll_ | i imagine people are busy working on the neo, rather than sending out messages |
| 19:49.06 | ferric | it is a problem... because i would like to get list email? |
| 19:49.30 | _llll_ | do you *know* there is email sent to the list that you havnt received? |
| 19:49.44 | hozer | which list |
| 19:49.48 | ferric | _llll_: oh aboslutely, i wouldn't mind getting a neo even if the list remained down, someone else thought that the list ws brought down right after launch as being suspicioous |
| 19:49.48 | hozer | community? |
| 19:49.55 | ferric | _llll_: yep - the webarchive has emails |
| 19:50.03 | ferric | _llll_: the webarchive has an email saying there are no emails |
| 19:50.06 | ferric | Hadaka: yes |
| 19:50.15 | _llll_ | perhaps they have a technical issue, and no time to fix it with all the orders? |
| 19:50.22 | loufoque | unknown_lamer: by the way, would you happen to know how OpenAFS compares, in terms of performance, with NFSv4 on GNU/Linux ? |
| 19:50.29 | unknown_lamer | loufoque: significantly faster |
| 19:50.44 | ferric | _llll_: could be |
| 19:50.46 | _llll_ | it is a HUGE stretch to call it suspicious. annoying or unprofessional perhaps |
| 19:50.50 | ferric | _llll_: or they're going to fuck off and cancel all orders. |
| 19:51.02 | ferric | i'm optimistic. :) |
| 19:51.18 | _llll_ | perhaps, but until there is evidence for that i wouldnt spead such rumours |
| 19:51.38 | ferric | _llll_: i'm not spreading anything, just wondering why the lsit went down. :) |
| 19:51.54 | ferric | i said the future is bleak based on the insanity post on planet. |
| 19:52.06 | _llll_ | the insanity post seems to me to be one guy over-worked |
| 19:52.28 | _llll_ | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/28#20070628-openmoko_update seemed to be relevent |
| 19:53.19 | ferric | well, he's talking about status updates and being so frustrated that he may cause physical violence. |
| 19:53.22 | _llll_ | the fact is that they said the things would go on sale, and they started taking orders. sounds good so far |
| 19:53.23 | *** join/#openmoko nil (n=nico@bethuel.ann.jussieu.fr) |
| 19:53.36 | ferric | agreed. |
| 19:54.03 | _llll_ | that post doesnt mention any reason or the word "order", could be anything |
| 19:54.38 | tuukkah | hrm, so GPRS *does* already work: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS |
| 19:55.11 | devestate | Read: Kernel Hacker having to play the bureaucracy game... |
| 19:55.15 | ferric | yeah, maybe his wife is going to leave him |
| 19:55.25 | ferric | or maybe they've lost aircodnitioning in the fic office! |
| 19:56.21 | _llll_ | i do wonder if maybe they have slightly mishandled the pr thing, im not sure they have stressed how unready this thing is enough |
| 19:56.22 | alUrdun_ | We definitely need some reassurance in the community. |
| 19:56.44 | Rince | lll: some have, some don't |
| 19:57.11 | ferric | oh they have screwed up the pr |
| 19:57.12 | _llll_ | i just worry that all the major review sites will find it lacking and write it off too soon |
| 19:57.30 | ferric | calling it the iphone killer is waaaaay too optimistc. |
| 19:57.33 | galexande | fuck reassurance, i just need the device |
| 19:57.42 | alUrdun_ | galexande: good point. |
| 19:57.47 | _llll_ | yes, exactly |
| 19:58.17 | ferric | they can write it off, as long as there's a strong dev community. |
| 19:58.21 | ferric | we just need a hackable phone. |
| 19:58.29 | galexande | they said the orders would start jul 9, they were right. they say the devices will ship jul16, that is enough reassurance for me. |
| 19:58.45 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 19:58.47 | galexande | if i don't hear more by jul17, i'll be a little trepidated :) |
| 19:58.48 | _llll_ | a lot of people wont hack on it unless there is assurance it will actually work |
| 19:58.51 | gcb77_ | 3 |
| 19:59.05 | ferric | actually sean said that customs delays might delay it a da y or two from jul16 |
| 19:59.10 | galexande | ferric, yeah |
| 19:59.11 | paron_work | has anyone gotten their confirmation email yet? |
| 19:59.16 | galexande | but by jul 17 he should say whether it is delayed or not :) |
| 19:59.19 | ferric | paron_work: no |
| 19:59.26 | _llll_ | if it gets to end of july and no phone and no update, then you might start worrying |
| 19:59.31 | galexande | but today is jul 11, so if i were him i'd be as silent as he is :) |
| 19:59.33 | _llll_ | until then, id say things are going on target |
| 19:59.35 | ferric | but they're very overworked, so shrug |
| 20:00.15 | ferric | it would be nice to have status though. 3000 1973's ordered, 1000 in customs, meat processor running to create another 2000 phones. |
| 20:02.03 | orospakr | Harald's blog post earlier was a little worrisome. |
| 20:02.40 | ferric | the problem is that FIC has been... incommunicative in the past. |
| 20:03.13 | LarstiQ | ewon: lots of universities use afs. |
| 20:08.23 | *** join/#openmoko Kain (n=i@c-69-249-157-157.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 20:11.55 | Kain | Is there a precompiled qemu package for 32bit ubuntu? |
| 20:12.29 | loufoque | Kain: obviously, yes. |
| 20:12.49 | Kain | Well I mean the whole setup of openmoko, not just qemu |
| 20:12.56 | loufoque | LarstiQ: mine doesn't. If you give me good reasons though I might tell them to. |
| 20:13.15 | tuukkah | pretty diagrams that explain a lot: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko |
| 20:13.47 | LarstiQ | loufoque: I just notice as a student. |
| 20:13.53 | LarstiQ | never asked the admins. |
| 20:14.00 | ferric | oh shoot |
| 20:14.06 | ferric | the webshop got updated |
| 20:14.14 | ferric | now you can choose the color. |
| 20:14.18 | devestate | when building qemu I get.... |
| 20:14.36 | devestate | one sec |
| 20:14.57 | devestate | Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in $PATH. |
| 20:15.04 | devestate | has anyone seen that? |
| 20:15.40 | webjames | i think you need netpng or something like that |
| 20:15.45 | loufoque | LarstiQ: most admins I know would rather buy a black box that automatically does everything and where there is nothing to administer. |
| 20:15.51 | webjames | devestate, hold on i'll find out |
| 20:15.58 | devestate | kk thanks |
| 20:16.08 | devestate | it happens during the flash process |
| 20:16.11 | devestate | :P |
| 20:16.51 | gcb77_ | devestate: sudo apt-get install libpng netpbm |
| 20:17.06 | devestate | ahh... thanks |
| 20:17.21 | webjames | devestate, this is what i installed: sudo apt-get install netpbm |
| 20:17.41 | webjames | as above, thanks gcb77_ |
| 20:17.56 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 20:18.02 | LarstiQ | loufoque: I know zero of such admins. |
| 20:18.34 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:18.46 | woglinde | hihi |
| 20:19.37 | *** join/#openmoko trains (n=chatzill@80.243.90.2) |
| 20:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko ml8128 (n=ml8128@86.73.139.248) |
| 20:19.50 | ferric | woglinde: are you on your neo? :P |
| 20:20.51 | ljp | or maybe a 2 year old got to his keyboard |
| 20:20.58 | ferric | heh |
| 20:21.14 | woglinde | lol no my son was typing |
| 20:21.27 | woglinde | no he is 12 months |
| 20:21.38 | ljp | :D |
| 20:21.54 | webjames | haha |
| 20:22.00 | ljp | does he grab the mouse and throw it on the ground? mine does |
| 20:22.01 | woglinde | 4~3~4~30~1~13~4~1~1~~~~4~~ |
| 20:22.08 | woglinde | no |
| 20:22.14 | summatusmentis | you must not have a qwerty layout |
| 20:22.19 | woglinde | he takes the mouse in mouth |
| 20:22.29 | *** join/#openmoko trains (n=chatzill@80.243.90.2) |
| 20:23.12 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:23.21 | woglinde | original dec german keyboard |
| 20:23.27 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03shoragan * r2378 10/trunk/oe/conf/site.conf: apr-1.2.7 is no longer available on http://www.apache.org/dist/apr/ |
| 20:23.52 | woglinde | 4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~4~3~4~ |
| 20:24.45 | ferric | whoa that's the first commit in 2 days?! |
| 20:24.54 | ferric | apr-1.2.7 no longer available?! |
| 20:25.37 | *** join/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 20:28.18 | tuukkah | yet another pretty diagram: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMokoFramework |
| 20:30.26 | *** join/#openmoko ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 20:30.32 | possan | question: if i want to build a single app, say the contacts-app, and then update the root image, how do i do that, do i need to make everything for that to work or can i "just" build app/install in fs/make fs/install image/run emu ... it's taking forever to test my setup here.... |
| 20:30.34 | Stephmw | graphviz++ |
| 20:30.39 | webjames | does anyone know how to get layers onto the openstreetmap? i mean like contour lines? |
| 20:30.40 | *** part/#openmoko slux (n=slux@host32-233-dynamic.11-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:31.01 | galexande | possan, i'm convinced it's possible, but the only instructions you will find are http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile, which rebuilds the whole damn shebang |
| 20:31.04 | galexande | it's pretty slick, but it takes forever |
| 20:32.15 | possan | ok, but i've tried to make some simple/stupid changes to the contacts app and it's not visible in the emulation afterwards, do i need to clean some cache somewhere before rebuilding it? |
| 20:32.21 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:32.56 | pjz | you need to rebuild first the app, then the flash image, then you need to "reflash" the emulator |
| 20:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@port-87-234-84-205.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:33.40 | possan | ok, make openmoko-devel-image, then make flash-qemu-local, then run-qemu right? |
| 20:34.31 | ds1 | and news on color choice |
| 20:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko sarpc (n=dost@85.97.152.144) |
| 20:35.14 | galexande | ds1, put it in the comments field of the order form, or email orders@openmoko.com with your RT# in the subject and the choice in the body |
| 20:35.19 | galexande | your choices are black/silver and orange/white |
| 20:35.29 | ds1 | thx |
| 20:35.40 | ds1 | glaexande: thx -- you are always on this channel |
| 20:35.51 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@pD9E85CEF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:35.51 | ds1 | galexande: do you work for fic |
| 20:35.54 | galexande | hah no |
| 20:36.07 | galexande | my dayjob involves too much boring reverse engineering of awful ibm data formats |
| 20:38.20 | don-o | that does sound dull |
| 20:38.33 | ferric | lol |
| 20:38.45 | ferric | are you trying to make galexande feel happier? |
| 20:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@149.254.192.195) |
| 20:39.29 | don-o | ferric: im sympathising with galexande :) |
| 20:39.44 | anrp | .. |
| 20:39.59 | anrp | hmm, what's with that latest posting from laf0rge? D: |
| 20:40.10 | galexande | anrp, clearly stress is a factor |
| 20:41.42 | anrp | seems a bit .. strong |
| 20:41.55 | anrp | but then again i don't really know anything about the circumstances, so I can't comment |
| 20:42.55 | ferric | i think everything is fine. |
| 20:43.01 | ferric | they did update the orderpage as promised. |
| 20:43.53 | summatusmentis | mickey|bbl's comments early sugested stress, and just eh personality type of laf0rge |
| 20:44.02 | summatusmentis | s/eh/the |
| 20:44.07 | summatusmentis | s/eh/the/ |
| 20:44.10 | ewon | fecks sake, the main battery in my laptop has died |
| 20:44.12 | anrp | whoops |
| 20:44.14 | anrp | :F |
| 20:44.19 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon_II (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 20:44.30 | ewon | it's what I get for getting batts off ebay I suppose |
| 20:44.45 | anrp | you always want recently manuf'd lithium batts |
| 20:44.47 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes_ (n=erdinger@e181240226.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:44.54 | galexande | i think the after-market batteries on ebay may or may not be lying about their mAh, but they definitely do not usually meet the spec for continuous discharge |
| 20:45.01 | anrp | probably |
| 20:45.10 | anrp | but what phone loads it down with >=1C discharge? |
| 20:45.24 | galexande | well, these are the batteries that failed quality check, probably :) |
| 20:45.28 | galexande | so maybe >=.1C discharge :) |
| 20:45.34 | anrp | that would be a bit of a problem |
| 20:46.19 | don-o | the updated web form with color selection is nice to see. too bad the phone icon is black/silver in both cases. |
| 20:47.06 | *** join/#openmoko faded515 (n=faded515@cpc3-hatf4-0-0-cust973.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:47.46 | anrp | zilt... not reg'd with nickserv, one sec |
| 20:50.58 | webjames | join/ irc://irc.oftc.net/#osm |
| 20:51.22 | *** join/#openmoko opampca (n=opampca@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:52.04 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:53.49 | anrp | spam? |
| 20:53.51 | anrp | unpossible! D: |
| 20:54.08 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:54.17 | happycube | ok i feel better after logdiving and seeing what mickeyl said |
| 20:54.17 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:55.33 | ferric | me too |
| 20:55.33 | happycube | although i hope harold can get some rest |
| 20:55.40 | ferric | and medication. |
| 20:55.42 | ferric | (joke) |
| 20:55.50 | happycube | (i was worried that it was from internal drama that had flared up) |
| 20:55.50 | jgm | I don't have a lot, anyone have a link? |
| 20:56.06 | anrp | nothing wrong with medication |
| 20:56.10 | anrp | ethanol counts D: |
| 20:56.12 | happycube | heh |
| 20:56.20 | jgm | s/lot/log/ |
| 20:56.22 | ferric | these guys have done a good job. |
| 20:56.38 | summatusmentis | jgm: link to what? |
| 20:56.43 | *** join/#openmoko webjames_ (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:56.57 | jgm | (sigh) |
| 20:56.57 | *** part/#openmoko opampca (n=opampca@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 20:57.07 | webjames_ | Hello! |
| 20:57.07 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qdbe2.q.pppool.de) |
| 20:57.10 | jgm | mickely's comments (unless someone can summarise) |
| 20:57.15 | Tetraden | hi |
| 20:57.30 | ferric | 06:52 < mickeyl> nod thanks. laforge is in a critical situation. the best is to leave him alone when for a while. I have been working with him now for quite a while and the best thing is to allow him to focus on one task which then he is going to do 110% professional. This project has overmaxed him since all his skills were sucked by OM.... |
| 20:58.09 | summatusmentis | jgm: oh, I didn't know if you wanted what laf0rge had said. |
| 20:58.25 | jgm | ferric: ta, that was what I was after |
| 20:58.37 | jgm | I saw the blog post this morning |
| 20:58.48 | jgm | Hopefully with the 'phone out in the open more people will be able to chip in and help |
| 20:59.00 | ferric | Really, the topic should read. Don't be worried, stay patient. |
| 20:59.04 | SpeedEvil | Will be motivated to. |
| 20:59.13 | jgm | True |
| 20:59.18 | jgm | Qemu just doesn't cut it for me |
| 20:59.40 | happycube | :) |
| 21:00.13 | *** part/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 21:00.37 | ferric | haha |
| 21:00.45 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=traveler@70.89.88.195) |
| 21:00.48 | ferric | touche, SpeedEvil |
| 21:00.56 | hozer | does anyone remember the Agenda handheld? |
| 21:01.03 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=bmk789@oh-76-1-219-208.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 21:01.29 | SpeedEvil | The micowriter? |
| 21:01.36 | SpeedEvil | 256/128K? |
| 21:01.39 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 21:01.41 | SpeedEvil | Chording keyboard? |
| 21:02.03 | hozer | no, it was a MIPS -based organizer that ran linux.. open source an dall |
| 21:02.18 | SpeedEvil | Ah - I had the other agenda. |
| 21:02.22 | hozer | but it was probably 3 years head of it's time |
| 21:02.32 | hozer | s/head/ahead/ |
| 21:03.10 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCB0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:05.04 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 21:06.51 | *** join/#openmoko jg1 (n=jgm@149.254.192.195) |
| 21:07.36 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-75-240.w90-1.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 21:07.38 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:09.22 | Elrond | hmpf. That wanna-be-doppler-shift doesn't really react linearly. :-| |
| 21:09.30 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 21:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko dw (n=dw@botanicus.net) |
| 21:11.02 | tuukkah | would that be because tone is exponential to frequency? |
| 21:11.24 | tuukkah | or the other way actually |
| 21:11.25 | dw | hey guys. i just read http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/07/11/#20070711-insanity .. anyone know what's going on there? :( |
| 21:12.22 | Elrond | tuukkah - Okay... mathematically correctly: It does not react monotonically. ;) |
| 21:12.31 | Elrond | ... or more correctly. It's still wrongish. |
| 21:13.07 | Elrond | The default value (0) can't be wrong. going in one direction should make the signal better, the other direction should make it worse. |
| 21:13.12 | Elrond | Both directions make it worse. |
| 21:13.15 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 21:13.37 | Rince | dw: no one except harald knows more than that. Just wait until there come announcements |
| 21:13.38 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 21:13.41 | tuukkah | doppler shift makes signal better or worse? |
| 21:13.46 | pavelm | Hello, everyone. |
| 21:14.02 | pavelm | ...any idead what is going on with Harald? His last blog entry seemed quite...insane... |
| 21:14.10 | Rince | pavelm: no one except harald knows more than that. Just wait until there come announcements |
| 21:14.25 | dw | bleh, passionate geeks, i suppose it's a good thing really. cheers Rince :) |
| 21:14.25 | Rince | (could anyone please make a topic or so?) |
| 21:14.41 | Rince | sorry, but I think Harald _will_ tell if there are any relevant news |
| 21:14.47 | jg1 | SpeedEvil: time for your gif, methinks |
| 21:14.51 | hozer | yeah, dammit, I keep obsessing about this :P |
| 21:15.32 | Rince | so there can be thousand of reasons for this posting. Since no one knows more - just wait. We can't do anything anyway ;) |
| 21:15.36 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 21:15.36 | pavelm | I just wanted to know if I can help somehow... |
| 21:15.49 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 21:16.11 | *** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590e4098.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 21:16.20 | Elrond | pavelm - If you find out -- how to help -- let me know. |
| 21:16.39 | *** join/#openmoko mon (n=mon@co149259-b.almel1.ov.home.nl) |
| 21:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 21:17.00 | mon | Hi, ive got Yet Another ItDontWork Question :) |
| 21:17.11 | Rince | pavelm: maybe write him a mail and ask :) |
| 21:17.14 | tuukkah | let's order a phone, build openmoko in various ways, document that in the wiki, do testing, fix bugs found =) |
| 21:17.15 | Rince | but don't expect an answer soon |
| 21:17.29 | pavelm | elrond: ok |
| 21:17.41 | Rince | yeah - fill the wiki with ordered information ;) |
| 21:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.120) |
| 21:18.11 | tuukkah | Rince, ordered as in ?-) |
| 21:18.17 | mon | i got the code from svn, it build fine and all. but when i run openmoko/flash.sh i get: Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure they're in your $PATH |
| 21:18.18 | Rince | structured ;) |
| 21:18.22 | Elrond | tuukkah - My patches are already waiting in bugzilla. |
| 21:18.25 | mon | what are these and where do i get them? |
| 21:18.25 | aloril | mon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:19.03 | summatusmentis | pavelm: I'm sure most everyone here would be interested in helping if we can |
| 21:19.03 | tuukkah | Rince, working on that atm =) |
| 21:19.04 | Rince | tuukkah: last time I looked for how to build OpenMoko qwith qemu from scratch I needed thre diffferent websites |
| 21:19.04 | Rince | yes I know I could do it by myself, but right now I have no time for it |
| 21:19.30 | tuukkah | Elrond, cool. i think the best we can do is continue the work |
| 21:19.36 | *** part/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.120) |
| 21:20.14 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@86.Red-88-0-79.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:20.20 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.153.141.1) |
| 21:20.22 | hozer | so.. put *everything* needed to build into a mercurial repository ;) |
| 21:20.43 | Rince | ;) |
| 21:20.54 | jg1 | mokomakefile does a pretty good job |
| 21:20.55 | tuukkah | mon, these are programs from the netpbm package. you get them in your Linux distribution |
| 21:20.58 | ninHer | hi all |
| 21:21.24 | orzo | how is the hardware not end-user ready? |
| 21:21.33 | ewon | anyone here know of the SMV video format? |
| 21:21.43 | jseghers | mon: install the 'netpbm' package. It contains these utilities |
| 21:22.14 | jseghers | tuukkah: you beat me to it, but I didn't see you had :) |
| 21:22.57 | tuukkah | jseghers, nevermind, you gave instructions, i didn't ;-) |
| 21:23.12 | myk_ | hmm, so far i have yet to see a case where the FAQ aloril suggests actually answers the question a new person asks |
| 21:23.40 | tuukkah | myk_, could you add some of those questions to the FAQ :-) |
| 21:24.15 | ewon | http://www.aldi.ie/special_buys/product_2826.html <-- thinking of buying one of these, but it only plays .smvs |
| 21:24.21 | mon | tuukkah: jseghers: that seems to have fixed it. thanks :) |
| 21:24.24 | myk_ | tuukkah: i also have yet to see a question that is frequently asked :-) |
| 21:24.45 | myk_ | tuukkah: so far everyone's questions have been different (at least the ones they ask the first time) |
| 21:24.46 | jseghers | mon: no problem.. ran into the same problem myself initially |
| 21:24.57 | tuukkah | myk_, excluding about the blog post you mean ?-) |
| 21:25.10 | mon | jseghers: maybe an idea to add it to the wiki then? sure we're not the only ones |
| 21:25.10 | myk_ | tuukkah: guess i didn't see that one |
| 21:25.44 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@149.254.192.192) |
| 21:26.30 | jgm | (bah HSDPA not good on a train) |
| 21:26.31 | tuukkah | mon, actually it is there somewhere. but add it to the place where you looked for it and didn't find :-) |
| 21:28.29 | thomasg | ewon, and for 50 bucks you'll get what you pay for :) |
| 21:28.47 | thomasg | means: poor display, poor quality, poor soundchip |
| 21:28.56 | ewon | thomasg: indeed - think I'm going to end up writing my own smv convertor |
| 21:29.26 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCB0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko n0on3 (n=n0on3@81-208-83-247.fastres.net) |
| 21:32.36 | dcorking | anyone have a mail address for michaelpo? I misspoke earlier 0 I shoiuld have pointed him to http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/27007.htm for the AT command set - though I don't think there are many changes |
| 21:32.54 | noidd | anyone able to get to www.openembedded.org ? |
| 21:33.42 | tuukkah | dcorking, but that's 3g and neo is 2g? |
| 21:34.03 | ScaredyCat | noidd: it seems to die/get really slow about this time each night |
| 21:34.14 | noidd | ok, good to know - thx |
| 21:34.44 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=jelwell@12.167.160.5) |
| 21:34.56 | Jason1 | . |
| 21:35.14 | dcorking | tuukkah: 3g and 2g are described in the same standard |
| 21:35.18 | tuukkah | dcorking, i don't say i understand, i'm asking why the right one wouldn't be http://www.3gpp.org/ftp/Specs/html-info/0707.htm |
| 21:35.47 | dcorking | for example one of the additions in the recent is PTT |
| 21:36.18 | dcorking | Rel 7 is the latest GSM and UMTS standard |
| 21:36.24 | mon | seems a tad slow, but i'm running phone software on my mac. woohoo :) |
| 21:36.48 | dcorking | but many networks are probably on Rel-5 or Rel-6 |
| 21:37.02 | tuukkah | dcorking, what about the chip in neo? |
| 21:37.15 | tuukkah | everywhere is talk about GSM 07.07 |
| 21:37.17 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-537894b57a322e96) |
| 21:38.48 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Gaming_docking_station]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[Stylus_mount]] [[Category:Diagram]] [[Image:Openmokoframework.png]] [[Image:Debugboard_v2_diagram.png]] [[User_talk:Cayco]] [[User:Cayco]] [[Category:Software]] and other changes |
| 21:41.00 | dcorking | tuukkah: afaict TS 07.07 was only kept current up to GSM R98, and from GSM R99 on the doc changed name from "AT Command set for GSM Mobile Equipment (ME) TS 07.07" to "AT command set for User Equipment (UE) TS 27.007" |
| 21:41.43 | dcorking | if you compare the 2 with open office, you won't see much difference |
| 21:41.51 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@149.254.192.192) |
| 21:42.03 | tuukkah | i see, very good to know |
| 21:43.13 | dcorking | I don't know how well the handset/chipset manufacturers kept up with it - but in general they are fairly diligent about following recent standards |
| 21:44.27 | dcorking | which prompts me to ask - did the GSM chipset makers of Neo publish their tech manuals (esp the API) freely on the internet? if so where? |
| 21:44.41 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 21:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178069033.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:44.58 | SpeedEvil | NDA only to qualified vendors. |
| 21:45.11 | SpeedEvil | (people who are going to buy a hundred thousand or more a year) |
| 21:45.19 | dcorking | business as usual :) |
| 21:46.08 | dcorking | so the 3GPP specs are what we have to go on (and source code written by FIC employees) - but that should be a pretty good combination |
| 21:46.11 | Stephmw | dcorking: how does OOo's document compare to Word's? |
| 21:46.26 | Stephmw | err... document compare, compare to Word's |
| 21:46.55 | dcorking | Stephmw: Micro$oft Word ? dunno - don't have that on this laptop |
| 21:47.05 | Viko | ?? |
| 21:47.17 | Viko | *wrong chan* |
| 21:47.52 | Stephmw | dcorking: shame, I was curious.... I'll have a go at work tomorrow ;) |
| 21:47.52 | hozer | /m SpeedEvil so did FIC get 3GPP specs then? |
| 21:47.55 | hozer | heh |
| 21:48.00 | dcorking | Stephmw: I haven't used the two side by side on the same documents, but they seem equally fast, if the UI on OOo seems a little more clunky |
| 21:48.50 | dcorking | hozer: 3GPP specs are copyright 3GPP, but they are free to read on the web - see the link I gave above |
| 21:49.30 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 21:49.52 | hozer | right.. I was wondering more if FIC/OpenMoko had gotten the specs for the GSM modem under NDA |
| 21:49.54 | *** join/#openmoko PMT (n=rich@c-68-39-249-165.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 21:50.35 | SpeedEvil | Probably yes. |
| 21:50.49 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw: managed to cut my build time down to 308 minutes..... |
| 21:51.00 | SpeedEvil | The problem with that is that they need rewritten in a form outside teh NDA, by core staff. |
| 21:51.30 | SpeedEvil | They however do not give anyone details of the modem internals - how to flash it, for example. |
| 21:51.38 | hozer | right |
| 21:52.11 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: it'd be interesting if OE had a build logging functionality |
| 21:52.20 | dcordes | the youtube videos are fantastic |
| 21:52.37 | ScaredyCat | yes... it's somewhat annoying atm |
| 21:52.44 | woglinde | ??? |
| 21:52.45 | dcorking | so FIC don't flash it in their factory? it comes pre-flashed and can't be upgraded by FIC or a network? they must be pretty confident of not not needing to ship updates |
| 21:52.53 | woglinde | what you mean with logging? |
| 21:53.19 | Stephmw | woglinde: logging build times, host specs, etc |
| 21:53.25 | Rince | dcorking: you shouldn't need ot access the uboot-stuff, for everything else you just can use the normal upgrade-procedure |
| 21:53.28 | Stephmw | woglinde: with optional push to a public server |
| 21:53.29 | hozer | well, I expect someone would provide a binary-only GSM modem flash utility |
| 21:54.06 | woglinde | if you are python expert it should be no problem to integrate it |
| 21:54.08 | dcorking | hozer: but then that would leave a blob open to disassembly - perhaps not what the chipmaker wants |
| 21:54.20 | woglinde | in bitbake |
| 21:54.47 | Stephmw | dcorking: I don't know about this specific case, but I've known blobs to be encrypted |
| 21:54.58 | Stephmw | dcorking: and on-chip certificates used to decrypt |
| 21:55.06 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:55.25 | SpeedEvil | They reportedly don't want to release the flash. |
| 21:55.30 | SpeedEvil | flashing tool. |
| 21:55.41 | SpeedEvil | IIRC. |
| 21:55.49 | SpeedEvil | It's been stated that FIC do have a windows flashing tool;. |
| 21:55.54 | dcorking | i guess that is their perogative |
| 21:55.57 | SpeedEvil | It is _not_ for distribution though. |
| 21:56.59 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 21:57.08 | dcorking | i never heard of phones having to go back to the factory - so i don't imagine it is anything to worry about |
| 21:57.22 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1088826735.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:57.24 | SpeedEvil | One of the major makers recently had a recall IIRC. |
| 21:57.30 | SpeedEvil | I forget what it was. |
| 21:57.32 | dcorking | oh :( |
| 21:57.55 | fearphage | is there a definitive, well-formatted (possibly tabular) feature list somewhere? i haven't seen one |
| 21:58.03 | orospakr | are there pictures of the two different colours of Neo? |
| 21:58.05 | guerby | just got a bounce from sales@openmoko.com 'Remote host said: 451 Could not complete sender verify callout' |
| 21:58.08 | guerby | any openmoko insider around? |
| 21:58.10 | pavelm | Siemens allows people to flash their phones at home... including gsm chips. |
| 21:58.16 | dcorking | fearphage: features of openmoko or features of the hardware? |
| 21:58.39 | Stephmw | dcorking: there's one instance of a mass recall by Nokia... the 6600 |
| 21:58.50 | Stephmw | dcorking: they can't have been pleased |
| 21:58.51 | woglinde | hi pavelm |
| 21:58.52 | dcorking | pavelm: wow! i guess siemens make their own silicon |
| 21:59.00 | fearphage | openmoko |
| 21:59.03 | woglinde | siemns is dead |
| 21:59.06 | woglinde | siemens |
| 21:59.15 | ScaredyCat | Sony Erricsonshould have recalled the p910i.. |
| 21:59.18 | pavelm | wog: mostly dead by now, yes. |
| 21:59.19 | ScaredyCat | it's shite |
| 21:59.26 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: aye! |
| 21:59.31 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: the software's unstable |
| 21:59.34 | tuukkah | dcorking, added 3gpp here: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM#GSM_07.07_-_Main_AT_commands |
| 21:59.38 | woglinde | benq stealed the ip's |
| 21:59.40 | woglinde | ip |
| 21:59.48 | dcorking | siemens make a nice cordless SIP/POTS phone that I am interested in |
| 21:59.51 | pavelm | benq bought them :-) |
| 21:59.53 | ScaredyCat | I hate mine Stephmw.... |
| 22:00.18 | woglinde | pavelm not really |
| 22:00.23 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: I'm kinda surviving... PuTTY makes it up |
| 22:00.25 | ScaredyCat | I mean who in their right mind builds a phone with an os that will *require* a reboot... |
| 22:00.27 | dcorking | tuukkah: thanks |
| 22:00.44 | ScaredyCat | to cloe applications |
| 22:00.45 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 22:00.47 | ScaredyCat | close |
| 22:00.50 | pavelm | wog: I'm pretty sure benq bought their "mobile phones" division. That's why it is selling "benq siemens" phones now. |
| 22:00.56 | woglinde | no |
| 22:01.06 | woglinde | "benq siemens" is dead |
| 22:01.32 | pavelm | ok... |
| 22:01.33 | dcorking | woglinde: do new benq models use any siemens ip? |
| 22:01.40 | woglinde | benq took the intelactual property and let go the the subfirm down |
| 22:01.44 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: there's a freeware task manager around |
| 22:01.44 | pavelm | did anyone got gpsd to run? |
| 22:01.59 | woglinde | now benq produces the phones at home |
| 22:02.09 | pavelm | I'm doing some hacks with gllin, but "proper" gps support would be nice. |
| 22:02.18 | ScaredyCat | got a url Stephmw? |
| 22:02.26 | fearphage | dcorking: the phones feature list |
| 22:02.33 | woglinde | dcorking yes they do |
| 22:02.51 | SpeedEvil | fearp: Teh Neo1973 page on the wiki |
| 22:03.08 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: http://3lib.ukonline.co.uk/nonagsuiq.htm |
| 22:03.50 | dcorking | i guess benq buy chips from siemens too |
| 22:03.55 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: scroll down to TaskSpy |
| 22:04.02 | dcorking | but that is probably a trade secret |
| 22:04.28 | ScaredyCat | excellent thanks Stephmw |
| 22:05.27 | fearphage | does it have the capactiy to be gsm and cdma? |
| 22:05.48 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 22:05.54 | SpeedEvil | Not this model at least. |
| 22:05.55 | woglinde | fearphage no |
| 22:06.01 | woglinde | cdma is only US |
| 22:06.07 | woglinde | nobody other wnats it |
| 22:06.12 | noidd | not so |
| 22:06.14 | bkruse | gsm is all over everywhere else |
| 22:06.19 | noidd | cdma is also in Afganistan and Iraq |
| 22:06.23 | dcorking | according to here benq have dual-mode wifi phones on the way: http://www.umatoday.com/mobileHandsets.php |
| 22:06.27 | bkruse | they Do have cdma in EU, though its not popular |
| 22:06.29 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Currently my ideas on this gps thingy are empty... If you have some non-hardware suggestions, I'm open for most things. :) |
| 22:06.33 | woglinde | noidd hehe than go to iraq |
| 22:06.38 | MacNorth | noidd: you mean the US? |
| 22:06.41 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: /me is waiting for hardware. |
| 22:06.46 | noidd | US telcos sold their re-conditioned cdma equipment to those countries |
| 22:07.04 | dcorking | cdma also in other parts of the americas and caribbean - and a few other spots with good US connections |
| 22:07.07 | bkruse | woglinde: there are SO many other countries that do cdma, you are crazy! |
| 22:07.09 | Stephmw | love the lock-in |
| 22:07.13 | woglinde | hm wasnt siemens made the cellnet in afgahnistan? |
| 22:07.20 | bkruse | they are to lazy to change the old technology, because its expensive |
| 22:07.22 | woglinde | I wondet they took cdma |
| 22:07.27 | dcorking | but it is a tiny fraction of the 2 billion GSM handsets |
| 22:07.28 | bkruse | of course gprs is superior |
| 22:07.32 | fearphage | isn't helio cdma? its universal i thought |
| 22:07.33 | bkruse | dcorking: exactly |
| 22:07.43 | Stephmw | CDMA is useful for long distance, few masts |
| 22:07.48 | fearphage | i know helio uses sprint networks. i would assume that means cdma |
| 22:07.49 | dcorking | who is helio? |
| 22:07.58 | bkruse | the lamest company EVER |
| 22:08.06 | fearphage | http://www.helio.com/ |
| 22:08.21 | fearphage | there slogan is "don't call us a phone company. don't call it a phone" |
| 22:08.25 | fearphage | their |
| 22:08.31 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, sphyrna has some analysis tools for the strace's of gllin. ;-) |
| 22:08.41 | fearphage | they made the helio ocean which is a nice phone |
| 22:09.05 | fearphage | i was looking at the htc mogul before i heard about the openmoko http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2151150,00.asp |
| 22:09.15 | dcorking | you can get dual-mode cdma and gsm phones afaik |
| 22:09.45 | pjz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:09.53 | pjz | what's the equivalent of the GSM SIM card? |
| 22:10.32 | fearphage | i think the project would benefit from a less programmer-centered feature list like the one on that page. just straight features in a table that you can compare side-by-side with something else |
| 22:10.50 | fearphage | pjz: there is no equivalent |
| 22:10.51 | Stephmw | pjz: there isn't an equivalent |
| 22:10.51 | dcorking | on helio's website they only mention a 'nationwide network' I am guess the nation is the US |
| 22:11.29 | pjz | If there's no equivalent, what good is a dual-mode phone? or.. .how do you program a phone to use your account? |
| 22:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko Sum1 (n=Sum1@80.175.142.81) |
| 22:11.50 | dcorking | pjz - there is some stuff about that on wikipedia - but often the subscriber info is just pre-flashed into the phone before it is shipped to you |
| 22:12.10 | dcorking | pjz - a dualmode phone has a SIM slot :) |
| 22:12.15 | fearphage | helio's claim to fame is builtin myspace stuff. (which i hate) |
| 22:12.41 | pjz | ugh. sorry, I'll have to look it up later.. I"m on irc via my cheapo phone |
| 22:12.51 | dcorking | pjz: cool |
| 22:13.00 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A35723.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:13.38 | dcorking | s/there is some stuff about that on wikipedia/i am going beyond the limits of my knowledge/ |
| 22:13.45 | fearphage | pjz: cdma phones can be quad-mode. they can roam to gsm networks. i'm not sure of how the internals of that work though. they have digital and analog modes on the cdma network as well |
| 22:14.18 | pjz | ick. the thing that's coolest to me about GSM is that there's a SIM that I can move from one phone to another and the new phone becomes 'mine' |
| 22:14.23 | dcorking | which explains why north american phones are so large, with such huge batteries |
| 22:14.32 | pavelm | fear: This is programmer-centered project for now. |
| 22:14.52 | fearphage | pavelm: i see. that would explain a lot. |
| 22:15.15 | fearphage | so i can't buy this right now and use it with 0 knowledge of linux or how it works? |
| 22:15.19 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 22:15.23 | SpeedEvil | Absolutely not. |
| 22:15.25 | pavelm | elrond: |
| 22:15.29 | fearphage | ok, didn't know it was at that level |
| 22:15.37 | SpeedEvil | Look on the second paragraph of the main page of the wiki. |
| 22:15.41 | fearphage | i thought going live meant public consumption |
| 22:15.52 | SpeedEvil | It says "this is not a usable phone yet" |
| 22:15.56 | pavelm | elrond: so... are there any news on that gps thingy? |
| 22:16.00 | Stephmw | fearphage: this says it all, http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/11/neo-1973-phase-1-started/ |
| 22:16.03 | pjz | no, going live means developer-ready |
| 22:16.06 | woglinde | fearphage no but more people help getting it in shape |
| 22:16.11 | Stephmw | fearphage: there's 'public' and 'mass market' |
| 22:16.17 | orospakr | argh! is the order page coming up blank for anyone else? |
| 22:16.20 | pjz | public release is GTA02 in october |
| 22:16.24 | fearphage | ok |
| 22:17.07 | fearphage | so that changes things a lot in my decision making. i'm versed somewhat in linux but not well enough to develop for it yet.. especially not on a driver level |
| 22:17.09 | Elrond | pavelm - Only that I got a strange linear formular for deducing one param from another for the satelite-setup. |
| 22:17.22 | fearphage | public release = mass market? |
| 22:17.23 | Elrond | pavelm - But I don't know, what these params do. |
| 22:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 22:17.54 | orospakr | so yeah, order page not working. :( |
| 22:17.55 | Stephmw | fearphage: that's a problem... some people seem to use the terms interchangeably |
| 22:18.05 | pavelm | elrond: I guess I should look at wiki? |
| 22:18.06 | dcorking | fearphage: I think one of the FIC guys said recently that you should not buy the GTA01 for your main phone |
| 22:18.16 | noidd | fearphage: right now its great for development but not a functional / reliable phone. |
| 22:18.17 | Stephmw | fearphage: mass-market == non-developer specific |
| 22:18.26 | Elrond | pavelm - It's not yet in the wiki, only in the decoder sources. |
| 22:18.39 | noidd | although I did dream last night that I accidentally called 911 (112/999 etc) on it |
| 22:18.40 | fearphage | the implications are huge but i don't know what the time constraints are. i am in the market for a phone now :-\ |
| 22:18.42 | Stephmw | fearphage: hell, I'm a developer, but I'll wait for the mass-market one |
| 22:18.56 | zilt | orospakr: use 'ON' for the province |
| 22:18.58 | Stephmw | get a cheap PAYG phone in the meantime :) |
| 22:19.06 | orospakr | zilt: heh, thanks. :) |
| 22:19.11 | pjz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:19.13 | noidd | fearphage: pay as you go == no contracts. Also, any GSM network means you can switch the SIM back and forward when you want to |
| 22:19.14 | Elrond | pavelm - I was hoping for it being the dopplper shift and playing with it would make signals soo much better. But to no avail. I'm currently a bit pissed. ;o) |
| 22:19.29 | orospakr | zilt: you are clearly psychic. :) |
| 22:19.32 | fearphage | well the public is generally referring to the masses. "open to the public" - anyone can come in. "public places" - anyone can be there |
| 22:19.41 | *** join/#openmoko pdinoto (n=pdinoto@200.117.246.103) |
| 22:19.46 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:19.51 | Stephmw | noidd: yeah, that's a concern. Places that typically develop call-control software have developer-test basestations |
| 22:20.10 | fearphage | i am aware how gsm works. i've been with sprint since 2000 because for a long time they had the best phones and now my plan is just insanely good |
| 22:20.12 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej_ (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 22:20.18 | orospakr | zilt: will standard shipping be appropriate for Canada? |
| 22:20.22 | Elrond | mickeyl! :-) |
| 22:20.25 | Stephmw | hey mickeyl |
| 22:20.34 | pavelm | elrond: And do we know what the signals mean? |
| 22:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:20.39 | zilt | orospakr: I had the same problem on Sunday - tried for an hour till someone mentioned using short form and capitalized letters for the state/province. |
| 22:20.40 | pavelm | hi, mickeyl! |
| 22:21.06 | noidd | Sprint coverage in Charlotte NC is aweful. Cingular / AT&T really are the only realistic choice |
| 22:21.07 | summatusmentis | hi mickeyl |
| 22:21.10 | zilt | orospakr: dunno - $15 vs $60 |
| 22:21.29 | mickeyl | good evening |
| 22:21.29 | pjz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:21.39 | orospakr | pjz: GTA0q? |
| 22:21.52 | noidd | Greetings Dr Mickey, how goes the battle? |
| 22:21.56 | pjz | wifi is just too much to miss out on though. GTA02 |
| 22:22.05 | Elrond | pavelm - I still assume correlation data. |
| 22:23.13 | fearphage | what can the phone do without plan/activation? i'm still teetering :) |
| 22:23.14 | bmk789 | will openmoko's package manager download updates similarly to apt? |
| 22:23.18 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: any idea 'officially' of how many have been sold so far - or how many orders. |
| 22:23.31 | SpeedEvil | fearphage: it's basically a linux X box. |
| 22:23.35 | CoreDump|home | bmk789: yes |
| 22:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko mrkiko (n=pv@adsl-51-44.38-151.net24.it) |
| 22:23.43 | SpeedEvil | fearphage: GPS+bluetooth+touchscreen+USB |
| 22:23.48 | fearphage | wait, isn't this buildable/usable without the phone? |
| 22:23.51 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@adsl-69-209-209-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 22:23.54 | SpeedEvil | oh. |
| 22:23.55 | don-o | fearphage: i look at the neo as a linux PDA with a gsm module |
| 22:24.04 | fearphage | yea, i'm looking for a smart phone |
| 22:24.06 | SpeedEvil | yes, you can build it and run it on your PC. |
| 22:24.17 | fearphage | hmmm i may do that to get my feet wet |
| 22:24.18 | mrkiko | Hi all! |
| 22:24.23 | mrkiko | What about neo and accessiblity? |
| 22:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1088826735.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:24.24 | aloril | mrkiko: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:24.24 | pavelm | elrond: what correlation data? So you know where hh passes bits from sattelites? |
| 22:24.31 | SpeedEvil | mrkiko: not yet |
| 22:24.33 | fearphage | is there an emulator to get the phone-centric interface of it all? |
| 22:24.43 | SpeedEvil | fearphage: yes |
| 22:24.45 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 22:24.46 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 22:24.47 | don-o | fearphage: see the wiki. |
| 22:24.56 | fearphage | k |
| 22:24.56 | noidd | mrkiko: accessability as in sight or sound? |
| 22:24.59 | Elrond | pavelm - The bare correlation data. integrated thingies. |
| 22:25.03 | noidd | blind or deaf |
| 22:25.19 | mickeyl | noidd: ok so far |
| 22:25.21 | pavelm | elrond: Aha, basically telling you the phase of the particular sattelite? |
| 22:25.28 | pavelm | elrond: do you know where that is passed? |
| 22:25.32 | Stephmw | noidd: deaf would be a challenge |
| 22:25.34 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: i don't know the numbers |
| 22:25.37 | mickeyl | bbiab |
| 22:25.51 | pavelm | basically... gta01 display is so bad we'd better treat everyone as blind :-) |
| 22:25.52 | Elrond | pavelm - Well, I guess, it's the 23 packet data. |
| 22:25.53 | fearphage | thank you all. good day |
| 22:25.56 | noidd | Stephen: actually, deaf is really easy. You just make it the best data-phone |
| 22:26.04 | Elrond | pavelm - It just looks much like correlation data. |
| 22:26.07 | Stephmw | noidd: yeah, sorry, I meant deaf+blind |
| 22:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 22:26.22 | noidd | Stephen: Hiptop / T-Mobile "Sidekick" is by far the strongest contender in the deaf market |
| 22:26.25 | Stephmw | noidd: getting late here, and I'm still writing test specs :( |
| 22:26.42 | noidd | I could even show you the sign language sign for it - its cute since it shows the thing flipping open and closed. |
| 22:27.01 | don-o | noidd: ha. amazing. |
| 22:27.01 | Elrond | pavelm - next I'll backup the thing and then try gllin on it. |
| 22:27.10 | pavelm | elrond: Does gps chip actually talk to you? |
| 22:27.15 | Elrond | pavelm - Just to make sure, that the gps chip still works. |
| 22:27.28 | pavelm | elrond: Like, can you start scanning particular from your python code? |
| 22:27.29 | Elrond | pavelm - Yes, I get tons of data from it. |
| 22:27.45 | noidd | yeah "Sidekick" sign is pretty much the sign for data-cellphone now. In much the same way as "Kleenex" or "Xerox" is in American english. |
| 22:27.49 | Elrond | pavelm - I have a GUI to select the PRN, etc. |
| 22:28.05 | pavelm | elrond: Nice... packet 23 being correlation data... why is it variable sized? |
| 22:28.11 | pavelm | elrond: Is there the code somewhere? |
| 22:28.38 | pjz | my minor dev and debug attempts have all been pretty failurepriffic, though I did manage to get qemu up and running it using MokoMakefile |
| 22:28.41 | Elrond | pavelm - Because the software can request different lengths. Probbly to better analyse it. |
| 22:28.55 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:29.05 | *** part/#openmoko fearphage (n=fearphag@xbmc/user/fearphage) |
| 22:29.06 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 22:29.14 | aevin | i just read http://directorblue.blogspot.com/2007/07/whats-hidden-in-iphones-fine-print.html , and they seem to really bite their customers' asses really hard!! I guess the conclusion is that most people never care to read the fine print as long as they get something glossy/hyped. |
| 22:29.32 | pavelm | elrond: It is expected to have 1024 or so correlators, no? Packets seem too short for that... |
| 22:29.47 | SpeedEvil | It probably reports peaks only |
| 22:29.47 | CoreDump|home | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:29.50 | noidd | look at facebook for a good example of that |
| 22:30.05 | aevin | true. |
| 22:30.08 | dcorking | tuukkah: I notice that the openmoko sources refer to the standard as 0707 (for example developers/seanchiang/gsm/include/gsmd/ts0707.h ) and I have no idea what the relationship between 3GPP and ETSI is :) |
| 22:30.12 | pavelm | speed: Packet 23 is array of 16-bit integers. For peaks, I'd expect 10-bit integer followed by 16-bit. |
| 22:30.30 | woglinde | lol double charging wtf is this? |
| 22:30.31 | summatusmentis | noidd: how so? |
| 22:30.34 | SpeedEvil | Maybe. |
| 22:30.38 | dcorking | so I think we are better to stick with talking about 0707 - at least people will understand us |
| 22:30.45 | tuukkah | dcorking, that's what i was trying to say :-) |
| 22:30.45 | pjz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:30.47 | woglinde | in europe they would fart on apple |
| 22:31.01 | summatusmentis | pjz: nope |
| 22:31.17 | aevin | woglinde: it's crazyness! I'm so looking forward to be getting my OpenMoko-running Neo :) |
| 22:31.18 | Elrond | pavelm - These are 12 bits really. And it has a maximum. I plotted it. So the guess is: These are few values around the peak. |
| 22:31.24 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: 10 bit integer + 16 bit won't quite work - you will end up in some cases with the peak falling in between the correlators. I suspect 2048 correlators. |
| 22:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@164.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 22:31.26 | bmk789 | no 3G either i assume |
| 22:31.31 | tuukkah | dcorking, that's why put in the question |
| 22:31.32 | dcorking | tuukkah: i think that is what you wrote in the wiki too - it is all good |
| 22:31.47 | tuukkah | ok :-) |
| 22:32.03 | summatusmentis | bmk789: correct |
| 22:32.28 | dcorking | night all |
| 22:32.37 | Stephmw | see ya dcorking |
| 22:32.38 | bmk789 | whats preventing EDGE or 3G from being implemented? |
| 22:32.42 | *** part/#openmoko Jason1 (n=jelwell@12.167.160.5) |
| 22:32.49 | possan | who cares about 3G when you can run doom on it, dammit :) |
| 22:33.00 | pavelm | elrond: Wow... please write it to the wiki :-) |
| 22:33.13 | pavelm | elrond: Do you have the code somewhere? |
| 22:33.17 | dcorking | bmk789: buying and integrating a 3G chipset :) |
| 22:33.29 | summatusmentis | bmk789: cost, afaik, as well as likely drivers |
| 22:33.39 | Elrond | pavelm - My display app: Not yet. It's a horrible hack. I slowly factor it out into sphyrna code. |
| 22:33.59 | bmk789 | i know theres linux drivers for some EVDO cards |
| 22:34.07 | summatusmentis | bmk789: and the fact that 3G is pretty area-oriented, that is, different areas of the world use different 3G cards |
| 22:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:34.13 | summatusmentis | and EVDO is CDMA, not GSM |
| 22:34.16 | summatusmentis | afaik |
| 22:34.29 | Tv | yup |
| 22:34.47 | bmk789 | i know but if EVDO can be used in linux i would think some 3G chipsets would have drivers |
| 22:34.56 | dcorking | summatusmentis is right. EDGE and UMTS are the 3G evolutions of GSM - but not in Neo phones yet |
| 22:35.03 | Tv | bmk789: totally different technologies |
| 22:35.05 | dcorking | er EDGE is 2.75 G |
| 22:35.15 | woglinde | jupp |
| 22:35.25 | Tv | i used a verizon evdo pc card that was like serial via USB via PCI via PC Card |
| 22:35.25 | woglinde | GPRS->EDGE |
| 22:35.39 | don-o | id call it 2.5001 |
| 22:35.40 | woglinde | tv yes |
| 22:36.07 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:36.17 | pjz | I think all you have to say to make your iphone buddies jealous is 'open source' and 'twice the screensize' |
| 22:36.23 | dcorking | don-o: if you are egyptian that question is worth about 2 billion pounds :) |
| 22:36.54 | CoreDump|home | 'twice the screensize' <- I don't think so ;) Twice the resolution maybe |
| 22:37.18 | possan | Twice the startuptime |
| 22:37.19 | summatusmentis | well, but iphone buddies won't know the difference :-) |
| 22:37.20 | Tv | try "four times the pixels" or something like that |
| 22:37.23 | bmk789 | a vodaphone 3G card has linux drivers |
| 22:37.24 | pjz | fin, 'twice the desktop size' then :) |
| 22:37.35 | Tv | haven't checked what the actual pixel counts are |
| 22:37.43 | summatusmentis | bmk789: PCMCIA? |
| 22:37.51 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db51607.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 22:37.58 | bmk789 | summatusmentis: still looking |
| 22:38.08 | woglinde | summatusmentis its cardbus |
| 22:38.17 | summatusmentis | woglinde: ok, yeah |
| 22:38.40 | woglinde | but there is one firm it seems they have pcmcia cards |
| 22:38.48 | summatusmentis | bmk789: well, regardless, there's still a higher cost involved, and the differences in 3G solutions in different areas of the world |
| 22:38.49 | woglinde | but I dont know it anymore |
| 22:38.53 | don-o | twice the pixels, twice the fun. |
| 22:39.13 | ferric | wait |
| 22:39.18 | ferric | you can do evdo over usb! |
| 22:39.23 | pavelm | don-o: Actually, it is more than twice the fun. |
| 22:39.39 | CM | blindcoder: Nice getting the app built. :D |
| 22:39.43 | pavelm | don-o: If decoding binary protocols and hacking the phone over ssh is your idea of fun :-) |
| 22:39.52 | CM | blindcoder: Hope you updated the wiki too... *poke* ;) |
| 22:40.14 | don-o | pavelm: disneyland can't hold a candle to that kind of fun :) |
| 22:40.37 | woglinde | cm I think he is at sleep |
| 22:40.48 | pavelm | elrond: So you can produce correlation peaks using your python software? |
| 22:40.59 | pavelm | elrond: Do they go away when you tune sattelite that is not there? |
| 22:41.02 | Elrond | pavelm - Somewhat, not really. |
| 22:41.05 | bmk789 | bbl |
| 22:41.14 | Elrond | pavelm - (there's a query for you open) |
| 22:41.20 | *** join/#openmoko Dunedan (n=dunedan@phoenitydawn.de) |
| 22:41.48 | Elrond | pavelm - They've worse signal for sats, that are not there, but even that is only marginal. All that confuses me. |
| 22:42.54 | pavelm | "there's a query for you open" -- sorry, I do not understand |
| 22:43.07 | SpeedEvil | I'm almost tempted to make a GPS satellite. |
| 22:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 22:43.10 | SpeedEvil | It's not _that_ hard. |
| 22:43.22 | pavelm | elrond: That's seriously strange. I'd expect non-present sattelites to produce white noise... |
| 22:43.38 | Elrond | pavelm - Right, I do expect the same. |
| 22:43.48 | Elrond | pavelm - query == private notices on irc. |
| 22:44.02 | SpeedEvil | And it means that you can do nice things like have the thing in a screened box, with the transmitter, and sweep slowly in frequency |
| 22:44.10 | pavelm | elrond: Or maybe the receiver is so miss-tuned that we see noise for regular sattelites, too? |
| 22:44.33 | pavelm | elrond: hmm, how do I get to that query? |
| 22:44.36 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: CDMA means that regular satellites appear as broadband noise |
| 22:44.56 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: s/uncorrelated/broadband/ |
| 22:45.13 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: as does any satellite with a PRN different from the one you're looking at. |
| 22:45.43 | Kensan | This has probably been asked many times over: Any news on Laforge's blog post? |
| 22:46.16 | SpeedEvil | Micke yl commented on it. |
| 22:46.22 | SpeedEvil | He's basically been working too hard. |
| 22:46.29 | Elrond | Kensan - No. |
| 22:46.50 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: No other news. |
| 22:47.33 | ferric | Don't Panic! |
| 22:47.35 | ferric | :) |
| 22:47.46 | pjz | whoa, i musta missed that blog post |
| 22:47.56 | pjz | when did he post it? |
| 22:48.12 | Kensan | I am just a bit concerned since he is without a doubt crucial to openmoko and I thought he could get some rest now that the orders are out the door... |
| 22:48.25 | SpeedEvil | They aren't out the door. |
| 22:48.41 | SpeedEvil | The orders have been taken, but there is lots of work to actually do to get it out ht edoor. |
| 22:48.42 | don-o | they're out the FIC door, just not into the Fremont door |
| 22:48.45 | Kensan | The orders are, not the phones though ;) |
| 22:48.51 | don-o | SpeedEvil: oh rly? |
| 22:48.51 | summatusmentis | Kensan: you're not the only once concerned, belive me :-) |
| 22:48.53 | *** join/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 22:49.11 | SpeedEvil | don-o: the orders are taken - but not processed. |
| 22:49.24 | SpeedEvil | don-o: the phones have not arrived in the US ready to be shipped out. |
| 22:49.54 | don-o | SpeedEvil: right but i thought i read the phones had been shipped from FIC and are in progress to reach Fremont on the 16th |
| 22:50.06 | SpeedEvil | Something like that. |
| 22:54.46 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@adsl-69-209-209-171.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 22:56.01 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:57.57 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-69-10.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 22:58.32 | orzo | Stephmw, what is laf0rge talking about? |
| 22:58.45 | Stephmw | orzo: he's just overworked |
| 22:58.56 | Stephmw | orzo: burnout, probably |
| 23:00.44 | CM | blindcoder: Quit sleeping so much.. :P (woglinde said you were.. ;)) |
| 23:01.00 | summatusmentis | ~seen blindcoder |
| 23:01.02 | apt | blindcoder is currently on #openmoko (2d 9h 14m 38s). Has said a total of 531 messages. Is idling for 3h 48m 7s, last said: 'galexande: now have fun editing/adding packages until I put up the steps I did tomorrow :D'. |
| 23:01.26 | summatusmentis | yeah, look like he's sleeping |
| 23:02.39 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0AD7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:03.57 | galexande | still waiting |
| 23:04.19 | summatusmentis | galexande: waiting on what? |
| 23:04.23 | ExxonValdeez | what are we waiting on? |
| 23:04.52 | Stephmw | he's just deadlocked |
| 23:06.22 | *** join/#openmoko mikeleib (n=ike@jffwpr03.jf.intel.com) |
| 23:06.50 | orzo | what's RT? |
| 23:07.05 | orzo | is that open source ecommerce software? |
| 23:07.25 | mickeyl | RT may be Request Tracker |
| 23:07.57 | *** join/#openmoko pmhaddad (i=phaddad@dialup-4.225.233.133.Dial1.Detroit1.Level3.net) |
| 23:07.57 | orzo | i'm refering to the auto response from ordering a neo1973 |
| 23:08.00 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 23:08.20 | aevin | It'll be interesting to see if zecke's is able to provoke a Trolltech-ported Qtopia+libs to the Neo1973. I hope they'll do it. To me I don't understand why Trollt^HHHHHHLorn at Trolltech is complaining so much as the Neo1973 should be just a good piece of hardware to promote the use of Qtopia as the Greenphone. |
| 23:08.21 | orzo | it comes from "Web Shop via RT" |
| 23:08.33 | Kensan | mickeyl: it is. From the Email-Header: "Managed-by: RT 3.4.1 (http://www.bestpractical.com/rt/)" |
| 23:09.15 | aevin | but I guess that if Trolltech won't do it, someone else will make a Qtopia-based distro/package set for it. |
| 23:09.41 | orzo | i've nver used any open phone platform |
| 23:10.55 | aevin | s/just a/a just as/ etc. |
| 23:11.06 | ljp | maybe I have already been planning it :) |
| 23:11.23 | pmhaddad | i didn't think qtopia was totally open? |
| 23:11.23 | aloril | pmhaddad: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:11.55 | Dunedan | test? |
| 23:11.55 | ljp | only things not open DRM, SXE and phone libs |
| 23:12.18 | pmhaddad | ljp, well iirc it's not gpl'd |
| 23:12.25 | ljp | it is |
| 23:12.28 | pmhaddad | oh |
| 23:12.30 | pmhaddad | well cool then |
| 23:12.32 | ljp | just not those |
| 23:12.35 | ljp | parts |
| 23:12.37 | linux_galore | aevin: Trolltech also has a Philips WiFi phone that runs their stuff http://blog.tmcnet.com/blog/tom-keating/voip/philips-vp5500-wifi-voip-phone-launches.asp |
| 23:12.55 | CM | summatusmentis: And like he'll add the steps to the wiki tomorrow. I'll give them a try later on and see if I can get something compiled |
| 23:13.12 | pmhaddad | ljp, yeah cause i was looking at the greenphone, and you had to dl it with a license... |
| 23:13.31 | pmhaddad | which i just assumed meant it wasn't as open as i'd hoped |
| 23:13.39 | ljp | if you choose gpl, thats the license :) |
| 23:13.52 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-71-150-249-102.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 23:14.00 | aevin | linux_galore: yes, so I don't understand why they rather go with the flow and exploit the freedom and openness of the Neo hardware to push Qtopia-based solutions onto it as well. I kind of thought they wanted Qtopia to be as close to everywhere as possible. |
| 23:14.08 | ljp | there is also another qtopia voip phone. one on skypes shop |
| 23:15.08 | aevin | but I guess what they're worried about is that GTK+ and others will give them competition. |
| 23:15.20 | pmhaddad | well, openmoko and the neo1973 really make me wish i had $300 :P |
| 23:15.50 | CM | I wish they'll ship my order soon.. Still waiting for some kind of confirmation mail. |
| 23:15.54 | ljp | competition is good |
| 23:15.59 | CM | Only 2 weeks until my vacation.. |
| 23:16.21 | CM | ljp: Many people here seem to want qt running on the Neo :) |
| 23:16.22 | ljp | and the more open source, the better |
| 23:16.31 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon_II (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 23:16.37 | ljp | of course! |
| 23:17.02 | pmhaddad | meh, i've developed in QT and wasn't too impressed |
| 23:17.06 | ljp | maybe qtopia will run on openmoko |
| 23:17.20 | Stephmw | pmhaddad: depends what other stuff you've used |
| 23:17.32 | pmhaddad | now if they had a mobile version of GTK+.... :) |
| 23:18.08 | ljp | well, i personally believe it doesnt make sense to develop a gui in c... |
| 23:18.19 | ExxonValdeez | yeah |
| 23:18.34 | Stephmw | I've only used a inhouse C-with-objects UI framework... and it was absolutely terrible |
| 23:18.37 | pmhaddad | ljp, there are several language bindings for gtk |
| 23:18.42 | *** part/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=exxon@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 23:18.49 | Stephmw | Every other framework I've used has been in Java |
| 23:18.50 | aevin | luckily we got other language bindings :) |
| 23:18.52 | pmhaddad | i personally use cells-gtk a lisp binding |
| 23:19.05 | unknown_lamer | cells is dead. long live cells! |
| 23:19.08 | summatusmentis | I personally believe C/C++ are the only languages worth using :-) *ducks and runs for the hills* |
| 23:19.26 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: no need to run... you're with likeminded people in here |
| 23:19.35 | pmhaddad | every langauge has it's benefits and uses |
| 23:19.35 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: *I*'m the oddity, I'm sure :) |
| 23:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd` (n=urk@c-71-206-249-157.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:20.07 | summatusmentis | Stephmw: well, they're the only languages I 'speak' so... |
| 23:20.41 | aevin | so, for you that've ordered a P1 neo, what are you gonna hack on first after arrival? |
| 23:20.58 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: that must be painful to listen to... |
| 23:21.03 | unknown_lamer | aevin: clisp |
| 23:21.09 | summatusmentis | Stephmw: :-D |
| 23:21.11 | linux_galore | from a commercial standpoint GTK has a better license |
| 23:21.15 | unknown_lamer | alas, uffi and cffi don't work on arm so no gtk yet :-( |
| 23:21.22 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: for, open bracket, int i equals zero... |
| 23:21.28 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 23:21.30 | unknown_lamer | linux_galore: you mean a proprietary standpoint |
| 23:21.49 | Stephmw | summatusmentis: everyone who's had access to speech recog must try it at least once |
| 23:22.22 | summatusmentis | which bracket you're talking about might be difficult thought |
| 23:22.28 | summatusmentis | s/thought/though/ |
| 23:22.29 | *** part/#openmoko pdinoto (n=pdinoto@200.117.246.103) |
| 23:22.35 | linux_galore | Linux doesnt have much in the way of speech rcognition |
| 23:22.49 | linux_galore | one of those annoying things |
| 23:22.57 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: well, someone should do that for the neo |
| 23:22.58 | unknown_lamer | chimera is ok for limited vocabs |
| 23:23.06 | unknown_lamer | err |
| 23:23.07 | unknown_lamer | sphinx |
| 23:23.10 | summatusmentis | probably difficult coding |
| 23:23.11 | unknown_lamer | same thing |
| 23:23.32 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: speech recognition is very hard to do and needs some pretty specialised skills |
| 23:23.50 | summatusmentis | ah, bummer, so we're not likely to see that for the neo? |
| 23:24.12 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: not unless someone starts up a $$$ fund to pay for a researcher |
| 23:24.17 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: maybe pocketsphinx with support for operating the phone but nothing else |
| 23:25.01 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@200-193-152-9.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 23:25.09 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: if I started a speech recognition project now it would easily take 8-15 years to see any real functional results |
| 23:25.58 | summatusmentis | :-/ |
| 23:26.07 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 23:26.08 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week 12:33:52 (7.524±3.0 days) (1731;246) |
| 23:26.09 | pavelm | linux: sphinx / cvoicecontrol should interest you |
| 23:26.17 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: the problem isnt so much "recognising voice" but "understanding humans" because language is vague |
| 23:26.18 | orzo | i bet we could recognize digits fairly quickly |
| 23:26.21 | pavelm | linux: btw speech recognition is easy. |
| 23:26.24 | aevin | there must be some FOSS project already started with speech recognition to build upon. |
| 23:26.28 | daMaestro | lol |
| 23:26.41 | unknown_lamer | cmusphinx.sf.net |
| 23:26.43 | cjb | uh |
| 23:26.51 | cjb | you don't need speech recognition |
| 23:26.52 | linux_galore | pavelm: not if your dealing with cultural variations |
| 23:26.56 | cjb | you need pattern recognition |
| 23:27.12 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: yeah, that makes sense |
| 23:27.38 | orzo | linux OCR is not real good last i looked too |
| 23:27.44 | bmk789 | cept tesseract |
| 23:27.51 | pavelm | linux: You just record words from user, then recognize those. |
| 23:27.57 | pavelm | linux: that's what cvoicecontrol does. |
| 23:28.00 | pavelm | linux: try it. |
| 23:28.19 | linux_galore | cjb: if it was just a mater of having a mic and translating it into text Ericssons 20 year in house project would have got it working by now |
| 23:28.21 | pavelm | linux: sphinx is better, but i'm not sure if you can make it small enough for a phone. |
| 23:28.33 | summatusmentis | pavelm: that's a good point, similar to training a speech recog program |
| 23:28.52 | linux_galore | pavelm: thats patern matching not speech recognition |
| 23:28.57 | pavelm | linux: yes... and it is also how 'speech recog' works on most phones. |
| 23:29.00 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@modemcable049.94-82-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 23:29.04 | CM | I have yet to try a speech recognition that actually works.. |
| 23:29.12 | summatusmentis | s/speech/handwriting/ |
| 23:29.16 | pavelm | linux: Not _quite_ pattern matching, but yeah. |
| 23:29.17 | myk_ | is there a better way to figure out if an XPCOM object implements an interface besides QIing it to that interface and catching the exception, if any? |
| 23:29.17 | CM | Those recorded commands work, but that's cheeting |
| 23:29.18 | unknown_lamer | pavelm: pocketsphinx.org |
| 23:29.39 | linux_galore | pattern matching is simple but you better have tons of storage heh |
| 23:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=nrwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 23:29.53 | SpeedEvil | I have yet to try an open-source speech recognition that actually works. |
| 23:30.23 | pavelm | CM: is it? It is similar to how your dog understands you... |
| 23:30.32 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: there is a work around, put the software on the service providers servers not the phone |
| 23:30.46 | pavelm | linux: You don't needs tons of storage for this. You just need the commands recorded (.wav), twice is better. |
| 23:31.07 | SpeedEvil | linux_galore: not really if you want to do stuff like voice commands. |
| 23:31.17 | pavelm | CM: And actually look at pocketsphinx. It is _not_ cheating. |
| 23:31.24 | linux_galore | SpeedEvil: Im talking about emails etc\ |
| 23:31.32 | pavelm | linux: forget about mails. |
| 23:31.47 | SpeedEvil | I want incoming calls auto-recognised. |
| 23:31.57 | pavelm | linux: But it works well enough to say "radio" and maybe "mp3" plus "next song". |
| 23:32.05 | linux_galore | well you could do simple pattern matching for phone command yes because you would have what 20-50 of them at most |
| 23:32.15 | pavelm | linux: it is reasonably possible to recognize 10-20 phrases. |
| 23:32.40 | linux_galore | commands* |
| 23:32.56 | pavelm | I still use voice commands with dogs. They work :-) |
| 23:34.30 | linux_galore | hmm wonder if there is a FOSS wav pattern matching algorithm |
| 23:35.34 | pavelm | linux: cvoicecontrol. |
| 23:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid1 (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:35.51 | linux_galore | "stupid fsking dog" TRANSLATING..... woof woof grrrr droool grrr |
| 23:36.11 | pavelm | linux: and don't call it pattern matching, because it is not. It's "let's compute cepstral coeficient, then compute distance to recorded wavs", basically. |
| 23:36.47 | linux_galore | anyway stuff to do |
| 23:36.48 | pavelm | linux: "stupid fscking horse" would have to be translated as a kick. |
| 23:37.06 | pavelm | ...I'm not sure if I want hw capable of _that_ connected to a commputer ;-) |
| 23:37.32 | orzo | what is the counter that daMaestro pretends to hack? |
| 23:37.50 | linux_galore | !counter |
| 23:37.59 | linux_galore | counter! |
| 23:38.05 | linux_galore | bah |
| 23:38.14 | pavelm | Wow, I just got a fix on hammerhead, indoors in pretty ugly conditions. |
| 23:38.37 | pavelm | ...meter and half from a window... |
| 23:38.55 | pavelm | $GPGGA,233839.00,5006.429901,N,01434.032741,E,1,05,0.5,334.0,M,0.239001,M,-0.0020515,*64 |
| 23:39.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GSM]] [[Category:Software]] [[Neo1973_host_software]] |
| 23:40.19 | pavelm | elrond: I do not think anonymous checkout works on linuxtogo.org :-( |
| 23:44.51 | CoreDump|home | does anyone have a recent rootfs+kernel for v4b handy? |
| 23:45.16 | pavelm_afc | core: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ ? |
| 23:45.50 | CoreDump|home | pavelm_afc: the ones from buildhost are ancient ;) |
| 23:46.20 | pavelm_afc | core: Wow...? Me wants latest software |
| 23:46.41 | pavelm_afc | core: ...or is 5 days ancient these days? |
| 23:46.44 | pavelm_afc | :-) |
| 23:46.50 | CoreDump|home | it is =) |
| 23:48.44 | orzo | how many gta01bv4 phones do they expect to make? |
| 23:52.00 | Elrond | pavelm_afc - Okay, my hammerhead at least was able to find out the current time. ;o) |
| 23:53.51 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 23:54.14 | *** join/#openmoko untwisted (n=uber_mor@c-67-163-203-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:54.54 | untwisted | hola friends |
| 23:55.10 | *** join/#openmoko dataworm (n=dataworm@modemcable212.153-37-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 23:57.12 | untwisted | dead room tonight eh? |
| 23:57.50 | alphaone | CoreDump|home: http://totalueberwachung.de/~alphaone/openmoko-build/images/ |
| 23:58.25 | CoreDump|home | alphaone: thank you! |
| 23:59.51 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A09DAA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
