| 00:00.18 | andylockran | and if so, can openmoko have a go at contacting the UK mirror service.. what's the protocol for getting a mirror set up? |
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| 00:00.35 | SpeedEvil | UKMS is closing |
| 00:00.39 | SpeedEvil | as I understand it |
| 00:00.50 | jseghers | andylockran: I have successfully built using MokoMakefile many times now... today I've been having problems...sometimes just getting through make update and mostly when trying make openmoko-devel-image |
| 00:01.42 | CoreDump|home | lol http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic |
| 00:01.43 | andylockran | jseghers: yeah, tis annoying.. but probably good too |
| 00:01.51 | arachnid | Can the Neo do USB2 as a _device_? |
| 00:01.58 | arachnid | I know its host port is only 1.1 |
| 00:02.23 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 00:02.25 | SpeedEvil | 1.1 only |
| 00:02.36 | jseghers | andylockran: are you failing in the quilt task for one of the tasks? |
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| 00:02.51 | andylockran | jseghers: no, uboot at the moment |
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| 00:03.20 | andylockran | cleared my cache - redownloaded and still failing... |
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| 00:03.52 | jseghers | andylockarn: mine is failing in Uboot...../log.doquilt.32328 |
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| 00:04.57 | jseghers | or not.... it seems actually to get to different stopping points |
| 00:05.16 | andylockran | yeah, each time is different |
| 00:06.01 | jseghers | well... my carpool is here... off I go. |
| 00:06.10 | andylockran | my last one got part way thru the compile... strange behaviour |
| 00:06.13 | andylockran | bye! |
| 00:06.16 | *** part/#openmoko jseghers (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 00:07.05 | tuukkah | could it be simply because the build process relies on the servers, which are now under stress |
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| 00:16.17 | juri_ | so.. i'm sure everyone is just waiting to support the hundreds of newbies (myself included) who'll be asking for help as soon as their openmoko arrives. :) |
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| 00:21.22 | Psi_ | juri_, hehe |
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| 00:22.12 | Psi_ | unfortunately i imagine there will be a lot of people asking, why doesn't software (X) work when they get their phone :( |
| 00:22.24 | juri_ | "why can't i make a phone call?" "wheres the organizer?" "how do i file 300 feature requests?" "whats C?" |
| 00:22.30 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 00:22.39 | Psi_ | i think you can make phonecalls |
| 00:22.47 | tuukkah | i suggest everybody work on the wiki a bit in advance |
| 00:23.20 | SpeedEvil | I'd further suggest that everyone has to confirm their order. |
| 00:23.34 | SpeedEvil | After getting a message detailing what the phone won't do in its current state. |
| 00:23.38 | juri_ | my confirmation mail still has t shown. |
| 00:23.42 | Psi_ | that would be a very good idea |
| 00:23.52 | SpeedEvil | No confirm, no phone. |
| 00:24.04 | Psi_ | juri_, did you get the auto reply? |
| 00:24.16 | juri_ | negative. |
| 00:24.28 | SpeedEvil | Hold back some of the phones for people who say 'oops, I really want one'. |
| 00:25.11 | juri_ | i got the "congratulations, you will get a confirmation mail" page, but no mail. |
| 00:25.28 | summatusmentis | they obviously had more phones purchased than were available right? |
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| 00:27.51 | Psi_ | so you dont know your ticket number ie #2120 etc? |
| 00:27.52 | Psi_ | juri_, you should get an email within say 30 minute of placing the order (most people get it instantly), its NOT an order confirmation just an 'auto reply' that your order was received |
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| 00:28.26 | Psi_ | summatusmentis, i dont know what the count is at now |
| 00:28.28 | juri_ | i'm still checking with my mail admin. i'm just hoping a spam blocker got it. |
| 00:29.22 | __alurdun | Can anyone else get on the site right now? I'm trying to place my order, and suddenly the site no wrokee. |
| 00:30.46 | Psi_ | juri_, i think roh is the one to talk to if you really didnt get the autoreply email |
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| 00:40.35 | idarwin | __alurdun: no, the .com site seems to have gone down or be rebooting, i get connection refused when trying from various places on the internet. I hope it's a sign of just too much buying activity, not anything sinister or serious, and that the ones who slashdotted it don't give up because they crashed it :-) |
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| 00:49.24 | notserpe | ah man, somebody has registered asterisk on openmoko as a project... |
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| 00:50.30 | Beastlykings | excuse me, but, where do I buy an OpenMoko, and what is its relation to the Neo1973? |
| 00:50.30 | aloril | Beastlykings: See https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:50.52 | summatusmentis | Beastlykings: openmoko is the software on the neo1973 |
| 00:50.55 | notserpe | openmoko is the platform, neo1973 is a specific phone for the platform made b FIC |
| 00:51.02 | summatusmentis | you don't buy 'openmoko' per se |
| 00:51.18 | Beastlykings | ohic, they should probably be more clear of this, no? |
| 00:51.52 | summatusmentis | I'll agree openmoko and neo1973 tend to be interchangable in the press, yes |
| 00:52.03 | summatusmentis | but it's pretty clear |
| 00:52.05 | Aria | Indeed. I've done it too, *guilty* |
| 00:52.14 | summatusmentis | me too |
| 00:52.19 | don-o | me three |
| 00:52.23 | Beastlykings | so... can I buy a Neo1973 yet? |
| 00:52.30 | Beastlykings | like, is it for sale anywhere? |
| 00:52.31 | summatusmentis | you can buy the dev version, yes |
| 00:52.31 | don-o | give me all the openmokos! |
| 00:52.36 | summatusmentis | www.openmoko.com |
| 00:52.36 | Aria | GTA01v4 model is out, the dev version |
| 00:52.53 | Beastlykings | ahh, dev version? |
| 00:53.08 | Beastlykings | I are stupid lol |
| 00:53.11 | summatusmentis | yeah, software is nowhere near ready for consumers |
| 00:53.13 | Psi_ | Beastlykings, yes, stuff doesnt work, its not a usable phone yet, its for people to develop stuff on |
| 00:53.28 | don-o | Beastlykings: let me put it this way, its fairly certain but not completely certain you'll be able to _make calls_ |
| 00:53.42 | Psi_ | hehe yeah ^^ |
| 00:54.17 | Psi_ | Beastlykings, the hardware is all good, its just the software that still being created/debugged etc. |
| 00:54.21 | Beastlykings | oh I see, so, pretty much its still being developed and it might be awhile before its an actul mainstream type phone? |
| 00:54.37 | Psi_ | correct |
| 00:54.47 | Beastlykings | cool, thanks guys |
| 00:54.49 | summatusmentis | currently, it's supposed to be october, but we don't know when the 'consumer' version will be ready |
| 00:54.55 | Psi_ | but you could buy it if you wanted to, nothing stopping you |
| 00:55.15 | Psi_ | it just wouldnt work correctly |
| 00:55.30 | summatusmentis | well, it'll do what it's supposed to at this point... |
| 00:55.39 | Beastlykings | hmm.. |
| 00:55.46 | Psi_ | true, but some software is still got bugs |
| 00:55.58 | Beastlykings | I'm no programmer so it'd wouldn't be the best idea for me lol |
| 00:56.02 | Psi_ | it could crash right in the middle of a phonecall etc.. |
| 00:56.04 | Demitar | Also, you may want to wait until the mass market release for the updated hardware. |
| 00:56.22 | Beastlykings | k, will do, thanks agin |
| 00:56.42 | Psi_ | the updated hardware is has some good stuff :) |
| 00:56.46 | Psi_ | -is |
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| 01:09.09 | osmosis | how many phones have been ordered so far? |
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| 01:16.01 | notserpe | i wish the lists were up. |
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| 01:18.34 | notserpe | osmosis: someone mentioned ~500 so far |
| 01:18.48 | orzo | ~500 what? orders? |
| 01:18.50 | aloril | orzo: See https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 01:19.19 | SpeedEvil | orzo: yes |
| 01:19.20 | summatusmentis | orzo: yeah, phones |
| 01:19.25 | SpeedEvil | orzo: possibly more than that phones |
| 01:19.58 | orzo | i just placed an order |
| 01:20.29 | orzo | by the website problems, i might have guessed more than 500 |
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| 01:21.36 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GSM]] [[Neo1973]] [[Gsmd]] [[Hardware:AT_Commands]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware]] |
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| 01:26.17 | notserpe | orzo: nobody really knows since we're talking order confirmation numbers (guesses) and not units. |
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| 01:27.52 | notserpe | actually I mean "order tracking numbers"... has anyone got a confirmation yet? |
| 01:28.02 | orzo | not me |
| 01:28.44 | Aria | No, everything's still in shipment to the US of A |
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| 01:28.55 | notserpe | shortly after your order submission you should receive an email giving you some receipt with a number like #1880 |
| 01:29.22 | orzo | hasnt come yet |
| 01:29.33 | notserpe | speedevil mentioned that there should be another round of confirmation that you confirm that you know that this is a developer device and not a functioning retail phone. |
| 01:29.51 | SpeedEvil | Should be - I have no idea if there will be. |
| 01:30.04 | notserpe | I agree. I mean boingboing is covering this |
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| 01:30.09 | orzo | hm, im having email problems |
| 01:31.17 | sparq | notserpe: The article on BoingBoing does say, at least, 'It's still in "developer preview," but this might just be my next phone.' |
| 01:31.40 | orzo | damn |
| 01:32.06 | orzo | im not receiving a test message to myself |
| 01:32.08 | notserpe | yep. I was glad to read that. I'm worried that alot of wind will be taken out of the sails with complaints about the developer models regular users might receive. |
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| 01:35.20 | notserpe | there was a page recently added to the wiki mentioning how the phones were shipping from the factory probably with a factory testing type firmware and not even a recent openmoko build (which ofcourse is understandable) but that would make my mom upset and take away the warm and fuzzies quick. |
| 01:37.13 | daMaestro | http://boingboing.net/images/iphone600talk.jpg awesome |
| 01:37.37 | orzo | does the confirmation email need responding to? |
| 01:37.55 | orzo | i dont think i'll receive it, the email i gave isnt working |
| 01:39.15 | *** part/#openmoko opampca (n=opampca@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
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| 01:41.21 | myk | have folks been receiving their confirmation mails? i have received my auto reply but not the confirmation that was supposed to follow within 24 hours |
| 01:41.23 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. http://www.globallocate.com/NETWORK/NET_AGPS_SERVER_Frameset.htm |
| 01:41.35 | SpeedEvil | They don't provide a free AGPS server. |
| 01:41.39 | SpeedEvil | Bastards! |
| 01:42.47 | happycube | myk - not yet and remember that time works slightly differently in openmokoland ;0 |
| 01:42.48 | happycube | ;) |
| 01:43.26 | daMaestro | http://www.mobilewhack.com/reviews/fic_neo1973_smartphone.html "developed with the chinese gov. for a windows based..." |
| 01:43.32 | daMaestro | is this still happening? |
| 01:43.56 | happycube | it dosen't sound like they're ramping up for xxxK units |
| 01:44.36 | SpeedEvil | happycube: they have done the first K, they are probably pulling the trigger on the next few K as we speak. |
| 01:44.44 | SpeedEvil | This version is _not_ mass-market. |
| 01:44.52 | SpeedEvil | Or at least it's not meant to be. |
| 01:45.09 | happycube | indeed |
| 01:45.09 | idarwin | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:45.32 | myk | happycube: k, thanks, i'll try to remember ;-) |
| 01:45.34 | Skwid_ | lol |
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| 01:46.22 | happycube | i think they were experimenting with speeding up time but their machine went backwards by mistake |
| 01:46.31 | happycube | hence the long delay of gta001 |
| 01:46.55 | notserpe | idarwin: I know. I was being sarcastic. the point being someone who is relatively tech saavy and opensource friendly might read the press and jump too early. |
| 01:47.26 | happycube | seriously at least for the delay it's $50 cheaper and has bluetooth now... |
| 01:50.17 | SpeedEvil | Bluetooth - and has no horrible, horrible power problems. |
| 01:50.24 | SpeedEvil | Though bluetooth over USB sucks. |
| 01:50.49 | SpeedEvil | The CPU has to be kept running nearly full speed to talk to it at all. |
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| 01:52.13 | idarwin | sorry notserpe, my sarcast detector was offline temporarily. |
| 01:53.26 | happycube | speedevil - ouch |
| 01:53.33 | happycube | what's a better way of wiring bt up? |
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| 01:53.46 | SpeedEvil | SPI would have worked. |
| 01:53.58 | SpeedEvil | Problem is available modules. |
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| 02:05.16 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, are we able to easily turn on/off bluetooth? |
| 02:05.27 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, save power when not needed? |
| 02:05.37 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 02:05.46 | SpeedEvil | Bluetooth needs little power compared to the CPU |
| 02:06.23 | daMaestro | but i assume it would also free up the usb stuff? |
| 02:06.32 | daMaestro | or would we only see trivial power saving? |
| 02:06.44 | SpeedEvil | There isn't much saving turning off USB if I remember right. |
| 02:06.54 | SpeedEvil | The CPU core is the big draw - even in idle mode. |
| 02:07.00 | sublime | on every cell phone ive ever had bluetooth is a power hog and destroys battery life |
| 02:07.12 | sublime | cant speak about the 1973 though, dont have one yet |
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| 02:07.45 | SpeedEvil | On the Neo - bluetooth means keeping the CPU on at high speed. |
| 02:08.03 | SpeedEvil | This will kill battery life - you're looking at some 6-8 hours. |
| 02:08.24 | SpeedEvil | Maybe 10-12, if idle mode is fully implemented |
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| 02:09.08 | SpeedEvil | At least at the moment - this may change if hardware changes. |
| 02:12.15 | idarwin | wiki is back up now |
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| 02:17.26 | doc|home | 10-12 per charge, even with bluetooth off? |
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| 02:20.59 | bmk789 | whats with the website? |
| 02:21.29 | bmk789 | is it acting up for anyone else? |
| 02:21.35 | happycube | 10-12 w/bluetooth on |
| 02:21.39 | happycube | and the website got /.'d and dugg |
| 02:22.13 | bmk789 | just overloaded? |
| 02:22.28 | doc|home | happycube: how long with bt off? |
| 02:22.40 | sublime | the wiki has been down almost all day for me |
| 02:22.53 | sublime | the shop has been intermitent |
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| 02:25.20 | LetoTo | there are proxies... |
| 02:25.39 | happycube | doc - beats me |
| 02:25.48 | doc|home | ok, thanks |
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| 02:28.25 | LetoTo | the slashdot didnt create that much extra traffic |
| 02:28.29 | bmk789 | im assuming its charged via the miniUSB port? |
| 02:28.32 | LetoTo | http://cricket.xtdnet.nl/cgi-bin/mini-graph.cgi?type=png;target=%2Frouter-interfaces%2Frmon_port_25_on_unit_1;inst=0;dslist=ifInOctets%2CifOutOctets;range=151200;rand=907 |
| 02:28.39 | LetoTo | that;s for one of the mirror sites :) |
| 02:29.11 | LetoTo | though it's a few virtual servers combined, but I'm sure most of it was from openmoko |
| 02:29.59 | orzo | do you work for the company? |
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| 02:33.08 | paulproteus | Wow, openmoko.com is slow. |
| 02:33.17 | ExxonValdeez | really? |
| 02:33.29 | ExxonValdeez | it must be the traffic hitting the site |
| 02:33.32 | paulproteus | Well, I'm still waiting for it to load. |
| 02:33.33 | ExxonValdeez | it wasnt that bad yesterday |
| 02:33.39 | paulproteus | I think the mysqld is dead. |
| 02:34.46 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:35.13 | ExxonValdeez | thats interesting |
| 02:35.25 | ExxonValdeez | whoa, yeah |
| 02:35.31 | bmk789 | can any of you see EDGE or 3G being implemented anytime soon? |
| 02:36.01 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 02:38.41 | ExxonValdeez | i dont think so |
| 02:38.55 | ExxonValdeez | wifi isnt coming out till the retail version |
| 02:39.14 | orzo | the retail version is still set for october? |
| 02:39.25 | bmk789 | thats what i heard |
| 02:39.32 | ExxonValdeez | yes it is |
| 02:40.34 | sublime | X = 1/2at^2 + V0t + X0 |
| 02:40.38 | sublime | dammit |
| 02:40.49 | sublime | writing my diff eq notes in irc ftl |
| 02:41.02 | ExxonValdeez | smooth |
| 02:41.39 | sublime | word |
| 02:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeeti1 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 02:42.53 | ExxonValdeez | but hey, if you are logging the conversation just print out the log |
| 02:43.17 | *** join/#openmoko sagaci1 (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 02:44.28 | ExxonValdeez | hello sagaci1 |
| 02:44.35 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:45.24 | sagaci1 | Good evening |
| 02:45.33 | sagaci1 | at least to me |
| 02:45.34 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 02:47.24 | ExxonValdeez | has anyone ordered a phone? |
| 02:47.30 | sublime | i have |
| 02:47.33 | gerikes | yes |
| 02:47.36 | orzo | ya |
| 02:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko kiney_ (n=kiney@p54882564.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:48.07 | orzo | wish i could change the email on my order |
| 02:48.18 | myk | orzo: perhaps you can reply to the autoreply requesting that your email be changed |
| 02:48.22 | sublime | wish they would charge my card already and let me know what color im getting |
| 02:48.34 | sublime | suprise suprise the shop didnt work right |
| 02:48.36 | orzo | myk, i did not receive the autoreply or any other mail to the address i used |
| 02:48.48 | myk | orzo: ah, hmm |
| 02:48.49 | gerikes | I'm curious about that too. I saw a black and an orange. Are they faceplates or what? |
| 02:48.53 | galexande | so, suppose you have an active phone conversation going on, and you press "2". Does the phone use the sound chip to generate a DTFM tone which is fed to the gsm instead of the microphone, or does it just send ATD2 to the GSM which does it all somehow? |
| 02:49.39 | ExxonValdeez | hey galexande! as to your question, idk |
| 02:49.42 | galexande | gerikes, use the 'comment' field to select your preference (black/silver vs. orange/white) |
| 02:50.02 | galexande | and if you're lucky and don't pick black/silver, you're sure to get what you want |
| 02:50.30 | galexande | lo exxon |
| 02:50.32 | galexande | still leaking? |
| 02:50.35 | ExxonValdeez | ? |
| 02:50.42 | sublime | anyone know how many orders theyve logged? |
| 02:50.46 | ExxonValdeez | leaking? |
| 02:51.10 | ExxonValdeez | nope, but sublime do you do a lot of programming? |
| 02:51.12 | galexande | exxon, off the alaska coastline, no? |
| 02:51.20 | galexande | sublime, a bunch. |
| 02:51.28 | sublime | yeha i figured a bunch |
| 02:51.37 | galexande | i'm just guessing but i think about 600-700 units |
| 02:51.49 | sublime | im in my 4th year of comp engineering school |
| 02:52.05 | sublime | done some C, lots of java and a little verilog |
| 02:52.11 | sublime | verilog doesnt count though |
| 02:53.06 | ExxonValdeez | verilog? |
| 02:53.19 | galexande | ugh, i think i interrupted a download with mokomakefile, it seems to be missing most of uboot |
| 02:53.28 | galexande | but i can't find the tarball to delete to make it refetch it. |
| 02:53.51 | sublime | verilog is hardware design code |
| 02:54.04 | sublime | circuit design i should say |
| 02:54.17 | ExxonValdeez | oh, galexande, yeah, still leaking, although its not as bad was what is pumped into the rain forest, and sublime, interesting, |
| 02:54.53 | sublime | i hate electricity |
| 02:55.40 | sublime | so it wasnt interesting for me, it was painful |
| 02:56.00 | orzo | can device drivers be auto generated from verilog code? |
| 02:56.08 | sublime | no idea |
| 02:56.19 | galexande | orzo, not generally |
| 02:56.23 | sublime | most i did with verilog was code a basic calculator |
| 02:56.40 | ExxonValdeez | ah |
| 02:56.49 | galexande | orzo, verilog tells how the device works, whereas the device driver just has to interface with the periphery of the device, and the periphery of the OS |
| 02:57.15 | ExxonValdeez | i made a basic program to do stoichiometry |
| 02:57.19 | *** join/#openmoko NoelCower (n=dsoapjd@host-64-139-238-2.nctv.com) |
| 02:57.39 | orzo | yes, well itd be nice to have a description of the perifery from which we could generate a driver for whatever OS we want |
| 02:57.58 | galexande | i guess now's as good a time as any to learn how the hell to use bitbake |
| 02:58.07 | sublime | i hate stoichiometry |
| 02:58.09 | sublime | with a passion |
| 02:58.15 | sublime | more than i hate electricity |
| 03:00.05 | *** part/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:00.23 | ExxonValdeez | its not that bad, esp when you have a the calc there to check you answers on the test |
| 03:00.24 | orzo | hey |
| 03:00.34 | orzo | others who placed orders, do they charge the card fairly quickly? |
| 03:00.50 | orzo | maybe i can verify it went through from my bank, since the email doesnt work |
| 03:00.56 | sublime | i ordered mine yesterday morning, they still havent charged my card |
| 03:01.05 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-237-093.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:01.10 | orzo | but you got a confirmation? |
| 03:01.19 | orzo | its still the 9th for me |
| 03:01.21 | gerikes | Same here, ordered last night and still no word. Got a confirmation of my order, but no acceptance of the order. |
| 03:01.33 | hads | They'll just be busy. |
| 03:01.33 | sublime | i got an email saying theyve recieved my order, yet they havent processed or even ccepted it yet |
| 03:01.59 | gerikes | Which works for me, I haven't played around enough with building anything on it yet :P |
| 03:02.13 | SpeedEvil | I've rewritten http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_GPS can anyone spot any stupidos? |
| 03:02.53 | aloril | duh, it was useless to provide https links (back to normal) |
| 03:03.56 | hads | https appears to be borked at the moment. |
| 03:04.50 | aloril | ditto for http: |
| 03:05.09 | aloril | and ... everything? |
| 03:05.10 | sublime | class is out, later guys |
| 03:05.27 | hads | Bummer. I was just trying to place the group order we organised. Oh well, I'll put it through a bit later on. |
| 03:05.51 | aloril | well, this delays it 'outselling' ;-) |
| 03:06.26 | galexande | well, i think i convinced it to refetch uboot, but ... am i the only one of the opinion that the svn server is down?+ |
| 03:07.06 | gerikes | I'm experiencing problems too, but can't tell if it's just 'cuz I'm doing the wrong commands because the wiki is down :P |
| 03:07.26 | galexande | i think teh svn is hit-or-miss, probably nearing some connection limit |
| 03:07.51 | *** join/#openmoko MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) |
| 03:08.13 | aloril | if you didn't get "AutoReply: OpenMoko direct order" mail soon after ordering, then your order was probably lost (based on talks on IRC) |
| 03:08.14 | ExxonValdeez | ah, the main site is down or slow so i figure its prbly slow all around |
| 03:08.39 | gerikes | Yeah, I just kept running it until it eventually would work. I'm sure they appreciate that right now :P |
| 03:08.45 | orzo | aloril, well, i'm not getting any email to the address i indicated |
| 03:08.53 | *** join/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:08.57 | galexande | well, if i use http instead of https it works. https says: svn: PROPFIND of '/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches': SSL negotiation failed: SSL disabled due to library version mismatch (https://svn.openmoko.org) |
| 03:09.01 | *** join/#openmoko khester_ (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:09.13 | aloril | orzo: there are reports that greylisting and initial rejection == no order |
| 03:09.44 | orzo | i mean, mail i send myself at that address doesnt work, so i just dont know |
| 03:09.49 | SpeedEvil | orzo: they are going through them manually. |
| 03:09.55 | aloril | greylisting and having mailed already to list or some other way host known already and thus mail gets trough in first try == OK |
| 03:10.15 | aloril | SpeedEvil: are they stored somewhere? |
| 03:10.36 | SpeedEvil | orzo: reportedly at least. Add a note saying "Don't process this order if you have recieved an earlier one' should work. |
| 03:10.52 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-30-64.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 03:11.03 | aloril | SpeedEvil: I just remember that roh didn't find anything about order placed by xkr47 (but this is day old information) |
| 03:11.40 | *** join/#openmoko SuN (i=unices@ip5652ade4.speed.planet.nl) |
| 03:11.41 | aloril | ie.. at least its not in rt.internal.openmoko.org, but maybe they are in some other logs? |
| 03:12.30 | *** part/#openmoko mrfeeti1 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:12.31 | aloril | or my information is simply 1 day old |
| 03:13.28 | *** join/#openmoko barf (n=barf@2001:388:c1c7:0:20d:61ff:fe1c:ba33) |
| 03:13.39 | aloril | anyway, if no kind of mail after ordering -> then there could be problems is probably safe thing to say |
| 03:15.33 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 03:15.59 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:18.12 | *** join/#openmoko opampca (n=opampca@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:18.31 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko ATravelingGeek (n=atg@pdpc/supporter/student/ATravelingGeek) |
| 03:19.11 | *** part/#openmoko opampca (n=opampca@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 03:20.14 | *** part/#openmoko sagaci1 (n=mark@cpe-76-185-118-188.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko wizdumb (n=wizdumb@adsl-71-132-140-179.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 03:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 03:21.35 | wizdumb | hey everyone |
| 03:21.42 | ExxonValdeez | wow, where are to many people coming and going |
| 03:21.43 | wizdumb | congrats on the device launch |
| 03:21.53 | ExxonValdeez | wizdumb: hello |
| 03:22.03 | wizdumb | one thing though, its really damn tough to find the link to get to where you actually buy the phone |
| 03:22.10 | anrp | topic? |
| 03:22.11 | wizdumb | and also, it looks like openmoko.com is down |
| 03:22.19 | anrp | ... |
| 03:22.39 | wizdumb | anrp, I mean from the site, openmoko.org it would be nice ot have a link on the homepage |
| 03:22.43 | anrp | i will admit that noone ever does read the topic.. |
| 03:22.44 | anrp | o |
| 03:22.58 | *** join/#openmoko cibomahto (n=metsmatt@ip215.coronado-crossing.phx.ygnition.net) |
| 03:23.19 | wizdumb | people will hear about this from the web, not irc most likely. and you really have to dig to find where to buy the thing |
| 03:23.28 | anrp | true |
| 03:23.36 | wizdumb | I think the only reference I foudn was some wiki page with the lin kbeing a "1" reference |
| 03:24.21 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 03:24.22 | wizdumb | yeah i cant get to the store link |
| 03:24.28 | wizdumb | unable to connect |
| 03:24.36 | wizdumb | could be /.ed as well perhaps |
| 03:24.51 | ExxonValdeez | i read the topic |
| 03:24.58 | ExxonValdeez | didnt change much from yesterday |
| 03:25.15 | anrp | heh ya |
| 03:25.49 | wizdumb | additionally, anyone who has linked to your site before is still pointing to openmoko.org, which again has no link to the store.. so that is sort of a way you are going to lose/confuse people |
| 03:26.00 | wizdumb | jsut trying to help, I think this project is awesome :) |
| 03:28.17 | aloril | wizdumb: well... overloaded :-( |
| 03:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko snappy (i=naveen@zerowing.calpop.com) |
| 03:29.02 | aloril | wizdumb: and at Germany people are sleeping I guess, maybe in few hours? (unless traffic is just too much) |
| 03:29.06 | wizdumb | (a nice button for the store would be great on teh landing page in the lower right corner of that intro paragraph box next to the phone image :) |
| 03:29.31 | wizdumb | is it being hosted with ze germans? |
| 03:29.32 | aloril | wizdumb: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:29.36 | aloril | wizdumb: in what page? |
| 03:29.57 | wizdumb | on http://www.openmoko.org/ |
| 03:30.07 | wizdumb | the page everyone is going to go to first, since its been around the longest |
| 03:30.14 | ExxonValdeez | not in germany |
| 03:30.15 | cibomahto | the wiki has been down for a while :-/ |
| 03:30.17 | ExxonValdeez | prbly taiwan |
| 03:30.21 | aloril | oooh its back up! |
| 03:30.37 | aloril | ah, not wiki :-( |
| 03:30.39 | hads | Not https |
| 03:30.50 | ajmitch | hads: no joy yet? |
| 03:31.02 | hads | ajmitch: Na, not yet. |
| 03:31.13 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:31.46 | aloril | wizdumb: yeah, there probably should be link (though it would be useless now) |
| 03:32.25 | wizdumb | a link and maybe a sorry we are slashdotted page :) |
| 03:32.40 | wizdumb | seriously though, go to .org and try to find a link to the store |
| 03:32.45 | wizdumb | you have to really dig |
| 03:33.19 | aloril | but then first link in www.openmoko.org is to wiki.openmoko.org where you could fix it yourself (if its not already in frontpage) (later though) |
| 03:33.40 | aloril | wizdumb: how did you find here? |
| 03:33.51 | wizdumb | aloril, find the irc page? |
| 03:33.53 | wizdumb | er shit |
| 03:33.54 | notserpe | I'd love to see some bandwidth graphs for wiki and .org |
| 03:33.55 | wizdumb | channel |
| 03:34.12 | wizdumb | I guessed.. I thin KI saw it on the wiki page before though |
| 03:34.31 | aloril | where did you find irc page? |
| 03:34.43 | aloril | ah, OK, that explains ;-) |
| 03:34.56 | aloril | maybe its in google cache too |
| 03:35.06 | wizdumb | I'd offer to help with the site, but my contract with work restricts me :| |
| 03:35.27 | notserpe | first hit for google with keywords openmoko irc :-) |
| 03:35.33 | aloril | well, I think problem is that people able to do something about stuff are sleeping :-( |
| 03:35.45 | wizdumb | doh |
| 03:36.04 | wizdumb | it would have been nice if you had google anayltics on the site so you could watch your traffic |
| 03:42.52 | aloril | latest number is about 500 (50%) sold before slashdotted? |
| 03:44.49 | wizdumb | I'd lke to order one, but I cant get to the page hah |
| 03:45.04 | aloril | yeah, I bet same holds for many other |
| 03:45.59 | aloril | about %30 was sold first 10h |
| 03:46.48 | aloril | then maybe 20% more until it was slashdotted too badly |
| 03:48.55 | hads | Sounds about right, maybe a little under. |
| 03:49.16 | SpeedEvil | I wouldn't be entirely surprised if they are all sold nowish. |
| 03:49.28 | SpeedEvil | Or in a few hours. |
| 03:49.40 | aloril | well.. order page is not working, so... |
| 03:50.03 | SpeedEvil | I do hope someone pulls the trigger on the next batch tomorrow. |
| 03:50.03 | aloril | if they didn't sell it out before it did go out of order, then there are some |
| 03:50.20 | cibomahto | yikes! will there be another round before the next hardware version? |
| 03:50.23 | aloril | yeah, they won't put order page down, they will just make more |
| 03:50.30 | cibomahto | good, good |
| 03:50.38 | aloril | cibomahto: parts are ready for next manufacturing round |
| 03:50.58 | gerikes | wiki seems to be slowly getting off the floor. |
| 03:51.07 | aloril | cibomahto: I think manufacturing is fast, at least several hundred / day |
| 03:51.19 | aloril | getting it trough customs is slow thing maybe |
| 03:52.11 | aloril | oooh, order page loads now! |
| 03:52.24 | happycube | woot |
| 03:53.35 | aloril | irc logs are available in 2 places (didn't check now): http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/ http://ibot.rikers.org/%23openmoko/ |
| 03:54.19 | aloril | wizdumb: wiki main page has direct link to shop |
| 03:54.35 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:54.49 | aloril | summatusmentis: hehe, ditto similarly using local logs |
| 03:55.19 | summatusmentis | :-D |
| 03:55.23 | *** part/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=Josh@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 03:56.02 | happycube | heh |
| 03:56.09 | xkr47 | morning! |
| 03:56.24 | happycube | i think production speed depends on how many units are kitted |
| 03:56.33 | happycube | there's a 6 week lead time if there aren't enough components ready, iirc |
| 03:57.02 | aloril | yeah, I have no idea for how many units they have screens in stock |
| 03:57.04 | hads | Bah, I added *.openmoko.(com|org) to my whitelist but the hostname is just openmoko.com so my confirmation mail got caught in greylist :( |
| 03:57.38 | xkr47 | :/ |
| 03:57.39 | aloril | hads: try again (and note that you tried earlier and also select color) |
| 03:58.00 | xkr47 | heh that's how the 1000 phones will sell fast.. everyone orders double :D |
| 03:58.04 | cibomahto | thanks aloril |
| 03:58.05 | Agrajag- | eheh.. greylisting is freakin stupid |
| 03:58.27 | hads | aloril: Yeah, might do that. I select color already but I'll put a note about duplicate order. |
| 03:58.34 | aloril | you should get autoreply about instantly |
| 03:59.19 | hads | Agrajag-: It helps a lot with spam and shouldn't be a problem with compliant MTAs |
| 03:59.51 | hads | I'm guessing there's something weird with RT if the tickets aren't getting created just because the confirmation maildidn't go through. |
| 04:00.13 | aloril | hads: yeah, but .. I have suspicion that it tries to mail only once (based on experience by xkr47 and others) |
| 04:00.27 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 04:00.36 | hads | aloril: Yup, I saw the same conversations |
| 04:01.54 | crunchywelch | i submitted an order earlier today and never got an email, just resubmitted with a note and got an email instantly, so things are probably working again |
| 04:02.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 633 has been created by thkruege(AT)googlemail.com |
| 04:02.02 | cdbot2 | * * javascript-disabled webpage version looks very broken |
| 04:02.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=633 |
| 04:03.15 | aloril | this is guess (based in discussion): if (try_mailing()==goes_trough) {create_rt_ticket();} else {} |
| 04:03.51 | *** join/#openmoko gerikes (n=mhildret@pool-72-70-245-142.spfdma.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:05.16 | *** join/#openmoko alanleung (n=alanleun@pool-70-19-52-219.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 04:08.43 | crunchywelch | ah oops, just got a second confirmation with different order ID |
| 04:09.34 | crunchywelch | and only 30 numbers between them, guessing i got my order in right before things went down |
| 04:09.43 | aloril | crunchywelch: ouch (well if you don't cancel maybe you get double fun ;-) |
| 04:09.52 | aloril | crunchywelch: yeah, sounds like that |
| 04:09.55 | crunchywelch | fine with me :) |
| 04:10.08 | hads | I got connects from two different servers, both look like exim so maybe it's just being slow at retries. |
| 04:10.26 | aloril | maybe they fixed it now |
| 04:10.51 | hads | Yup, a big bunch of maybes :) |
| 04:11.16 | aloril | so... if(mail_in_queue()) {create_rt_ticket();} // this now? |
| 04:12.14 | aloril | crunchywelch: what is you number? |
| 04:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 04:12.39 | crunchywelch | aloril: 2565 and 2589 |
| 04:12.44 | crunchywelch | er, 2598 |
| 04:12.53 | Aria | Goodness. |
| 04:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@s15244973.onlinehome-server.info) |
| 04:13.08 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfUrl (n=chatzill@c-75-71-41-233.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 04:13.15 | aloril | 779 orders or so? |
| 04:13.21 | Aria | Yeah. |
| 04:13.38 | crunchywelch | they have 1k units ready to go out? |
| 04:14.01 | aloril | first ticket number is 1820 (though I think every mail increases it by one, so anybody mailing that they forgot to specify color and specifying it increases number?) |
| 04:14.13 | aloril | yes, 1000 units |
| 04:14.33 | aloril | but then other hand there are orders with more than 1 unit .. |
| 04:14.53 | Agrajag- | when replying to an RT ticket it doesn't increase because it's related to the same ticket (as long as the subject and stuff remains the same) |
| 04:14.57 | hads | aloril: The ticket id will only increase if the mail doesn't have an RT id already |
| 04:15.20 | aloril | hads: ah, OK, in that case I guess its quite good indication of number of orders |
| 04:15.34 | hads | But according to roh it's a global RT id, not just for the orders, so can be effected by spam to other addresses, etc. |
| 04:15.56 | aloril | ok |
| 04:16.18 | aloril | its close to being sold out quite likely then (if not already) |
| 04:18.04 | summatusmentis | are there really 1000+ people planning on dev'ing? |
| 04:18.31 | crunchywelch | wouldnt surprise me |
| 04:18.35 | SpeedEvil | I suspect a lot may get pushed to the back of desks. |
| 04:18.49 | SpeedEvil | 'I have this cool phone, I'm gonna develop for it tomorrow' |
| 04:18.59 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: :-) always the optimist |
| 04:19.09 | *** join/#openmoko SchwarzeSchwuler (n=Schwarze@c-71-59-220-219.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:19.09 | *** part/#openmoko SchwarzeSchwuler (n=Schwarze@c-71-59-220-219.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 04:19.54 | aloril | summatusmentis: hard to say, but yeah many probably order just for coolness factor |
| 04:20.17 | aloril | summatusmentis: but then, this is really only option for really open phone: there is no competition at all |
| 04:20.25 | happycube | indeed |
| 04:20.26 | summatusmentis | greenphone? |
| 04:20.28 | SpeedEvil | Trollphone sort-of |
| 04:20.38 | happycube | twice as expensive and at least partially locked down |
| 04:20.44 | aloril | yeah, but that is "not phone" ;-) |
| 04:20.52 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 04:21.01 | aloril | or I have heard it says so on bootup |
| 04:21.27 | summatusmentis | hrm... so if there are 1000+ people doing dev work, GTA02 could actually happen in october |
| 04:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 04:21.50 | Rince | summatusmentis: don't think that these 1000+ people who buy the gta01 will do development work |
| 04:21.59 | cesarb | summatusmentis: not if it goes in several random directions. herding cats, etc |
| 04:22.04 | aloril | summatusmentis: yeah, but there are probably quite differences in how much each dev does |
| 04:22.06 | Rince | I know already one person who thinks he can use the gta01 in daily work |
| 04:22.16 | summatusmentis | Rince: slap him |
| 04:22.27 | Rince | even when I told him that's a _developer_ toy,l not a phone |
| 04:22.42 | summatusmentis | :-/ |
| 04:22.52 | daMaestro | i'll be using it in my daily work |
| 04:23.09 | daMaestro | aloril, 1/totalnumbersold .... |
| 04:23.09 | Rince | daMaestro: your daily work is programming openmoko? ;) |
| 04:23.26 | daMaestro | Rince, if something b0rks.. i'm going to check the code |
| 04:23.33 | daMaestro | Rince, if i can patch it, i will |
| 04:24.01 | cesarb | I intend to use it as my main phone. If to get the features I want I have to code them, so be it. At least I *can* code them. |
| 04:24.04 | daMaestro | aka, i'm going to do what a good developer does: eats their own dogfood (aka... use the device for everything; and when something doesn't work.. fix it) |
| 04:24.26 | Rince | well - since I don't know C I won't be able to do so ;) |
| 04:24.46 | Rince | *g* |
| 04:24.49 | cesarb | (in fact, that's why I made sure to fix mokomakefile so it compiles without having to do the silly /bin/sh -> bash dance) |
| 04:25.03 | Psi_ | aloril intents to code even *in* it ;-) <-- HAHA |
| 04:25.15 | *** join/#openmoko overseer (n=overseer@dsl092-044-123.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 04:25.26 | ajmitch | cesarb: good, reverting to bash shouldn't be needed |
| 04:25.36 | aloril | Psi_: ;-) well, it is fairly powerful computer, I did code in past in much weaker computers |
| 04:25.47 | cesarb | Psi_: why not? when you are bored on the bus, you can code... isn't it a good thing? |
| 04:26.03 | flingpoo | I hope the battery life is good enough for development. |
| 04:26.09 | Psi_ | i just had a mental pic of you typing code using the stylus |
| 04:26.12 | anrp | keyboard? |
| 04:26.15 | daMaestro | lol |
| 04:26.17 | anrp | tapping is hard enough... |
| 04:26.22 | daMaestro | stylus based bug fixing... nice |
| 04:26.25 | Psi_ | yeah, a BT kbd would make it much better :) |
| 04:26.26 | anrp | and what do you do when X crashes? D: |
| 04:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.41 | aloril | difference between Greenphone and Neo1973 is that Neo1973 is intended to be used as daily phone too |
| 04:26.50 | anrp | and it's not green! |
| 04:26.52 | cesarb | Psi_: why not invent some sort of touchpad-friendly code representation? isn't the whole fun of openmoko that the possibilities are endless? |
| 04:26.53 | anrp | that's worth something |
| 04:26.57 | daMaestro | i didn't want to spend any money on the greephone |
| 04:27.01 | daMaestro | hmm greenphone |
| 04:27.05 | overseer | a motion-sickness aptitude test |
| 04:27.06 | daMaestro | i wanted a touchscreen |
| 04:27.10 | cesarb | anrp: I'd get a neo even if it was OLPC-green |
| 04:27.14 | anrp | the d-link clone is more worthy of buying |
| 04:27.17 | anrp | black D: |
| 04:27.22 | cesarb | anrp: it's worth even that level of embarrassment (sp?) |
| 04:27.23 | daMaestro | hey now.. olpc green is sexy ;-) |
| 04:27.26 | anrp | megabucks though |
| 04:27.29 | blindcoder | moin |
| 04:27.41 | anrp | iphone level D: |
| 04:27.45 | aloril | so I would say Neo1973 is actually first freed phone (even if you include partial freeing, also if manufacturer doesn't support: those phones don't count either) |
| 04:28.08 | anrp | oh, and about the t-mobile wifi thing, apparantly that's also a public ETSI standard as well |
| 04:28.12 | anrp | so if that gets implemented it should work |
| 04:28.20 | anrp | although the standard was long, 100+ pages... |
| 04:28.37 | cesarb | anrp: is it the UMA thing I saw on wikipedia once? |
| 04:28.48 | anrp | yeah |
| 04:28.49 | anrp | that's it |
| 04:29.04 | cesarb | anrp: cool, didn't think I'd see it implemented this decade |
| 04:29.11 | anrp | :? |
| 04:29.18 | anrp | samsong implemented it very recently for t-mobile |
| 04:29.24 | anrp | *sung |
| 04:29.47 | anrp | probably to snag some of the cell phone news from apple; i don't blame em |
| 04:30.13 | cesarb | anrp: I didn't believe any carrier would take the initiative that soon... |
| 04:30.18 | anrp | heh |
| 04:30.20 | overseer | a self-signed-cert for the secure ordering website? |
| 04:30.32 | anrp | well ive liked tmobile for a while D: they seem to be a bit more on top of tech |
| 04:30.36 | anrp | imho |
| 04:31.03 | anrp | and gsm was a must for me, since i do travel a bit |
| 04:31.18 | daMaestro | overseer, it's intended to scare away users that have no idea what a self-signed cert is |
| 04:31.18 | anrp | ...too bad about japan |
| 04:31.19 | daMaestro | ;-) |
| 04:31.24 | daMaestro | overseer, just kidding, though |
| 04:31.34 | anrp | what, don't you trust openmoko? D: |
| 04:31.37 | cesarb | Around here 3 of the 4 carriers are GSM, or at least that was the case... the only CDMA carrier now is switching to GSM too |
| 04:31.40 | overseer | i kinda believed it |
| 04:31.48 | anrp | here = ? |
| 04:31.55 | cesarb | Rio |
| 04:32.01 | cesarb | Rio de Janeiro |
| 04:32.10 | anrp | well gsm is a standard |
| 04:32.48 | daMaestro | you can have higher density with cdma... i think that is why most of the ripoff us carriers use it |
| 04:32.55 | daMaestro | gsm is tdma based |
| 04:32.56 | anrp | they're cheap, surprise |
| 04:33.15 | cesarb | The problem with a self-signed cert is that it's vulnerable to MITM. Even a simple cacert one isn't. |
| 04:33.21 | *** part/#openmoko acidjazz_ (i=acidjazz@notchill.com) |
| 04:33.25 | anrp | true |
| 04:33.47 | daMaestro | yes, i already made the flame a cacert should have been used |
| 04:34.02 | daMaestro | it's what? $20 for a year cert from the little guys? |
| 04:34.19 | notserpe | overseer: yep |
| 04:34.38 | anrp | i thought there was still a longstanding bug about distributing cacert's cert with the default gecko though? |
| 04:34.49 | daMaestro | oh.. it's not there |
| 04:34.54 | daMaestro | you have to still import it |
| 04:34.58 | anrp | oh :/ |
| 04:35.06 | daMaestro | but it would give you a way to verify the cert |
| 04:35.16 | anrp | but... extra work! |
| 04:35.18 | daMaestro | so you could eliminate MITM attacks |
| 04:35.28 | cesarb | daMaestro: IIRC ubuntu comes with it by default |
| 04:35.38 | daMaestro | i don't believe it |
| 04:36.01 | overseer | i wish i saved the description differences between the two kits. |
| 04:36.20 | cesarb | Hm, no, on my firefox it's been imported, together with ICP-brasil |
| 04:36.35 | overseer | that's called the browser-in-the-middle attack |
| 04:36.36 | alanleung | who cares about CDMA ? |
| 04:37.27 | daMaestro | cedric, it *is* included in the root ca package, however |
| 04:37.35 | daMaestro | cedric, this is not the case with, for example, fedora |
| 04:37.41 | cesarb | mashi: people who alreay have a CDMA carrier as their carrier |
| 04:38.10 | cesarb | mashi: unless they are with Vivo, which is the carrier I mentioned who is changing from CDMA to GSM ;-) |
| 04:38.14 | mashi | cesarb : I never use CDMA myself. used TDMA once |
| 04:38.22 | anrp | once? |
| 04:38.23 | anrp | ... |
| 04:38.25 | anrp | what do you use now? |
| 04:38.26 | daMaestro | umm.. with gsm.. you use tdma |
| 04:38.27 | anrp | nothing? |
| 04:38.29 | daMaestro | lol |
| 04:38.36 | anrp | hot air, i guess |
| 04:38.41 | gcb77_ | overseer: do you have the announce e-mail with the specs? |
| 04:38.42 | mashi | anrp : well few year ago |
| 04:38.53 | anrp | gsm = tdma |
| 04:38.57 | daMaestro | +1 |
| 04:39.06 | mashi | i been using GSM for years |
| 04:39.12 | daMaestro | then you use tdma |
| 04:39.25 | mashi | anrp : tdma is close to GSM |
| 04:39.33 | anrp | gsm uses tdma in the radio layer |
| 04:39.41 | anrp | tdma is just a multiplexing sceme |
| 04:39.42 | daMaestro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_division_multiple_access |
| 04:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-67-149.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 04:39.43 | anrp | liek cdma |
| 04:39.43 | overseer | gcb77_: only saw it when it became the website opening page a few days ago. never signed onto the mailing list. |
| 04:39.53 | daMaestro | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CDMA |
| 04:39.55 | anrp | single channel per station is the 0g/1g standard |
| 04:40.18 | daMaestro | i hurt my brain and read every single link (that i didn't already know) from those two pages |
| 04:40.34 | anrp | COFDM! |
| 04:40.36 | anrp | 16-QAM |
| 04:40.37 | anrp | QPSK! |
| 04:40.54 | anrp | GFSK! |
| 04:41.13 | overseer | what's standard channel bandwidth 96kbit? 9.6kbit? |
| 04:41.18 | anrp | 64kbit |
| 04:41.38 | daMaestro | yes, 64kbit is standard voice |
| 04:41.42 | daMaestro | same with POTS lines |
| 04:41.54 | anrp | usable on pots is 56kbit |
| 04:41.59 | anrp | 8kbit for signalling |
| 04:42.06 | gcb77_ | overseer: http://pastebin.osuosl.org/1689 (Neo1973 kits info from announce e-mail) |
| 04:42.52 | overseer | gcb77_: thanks |
| 04:42.59 | linux_galore | hmm iPhone nano http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19682602/ |
| 04:43.32 | anrp | lol @ breaking news |
| 04:43.37 | anrp | China executes ex-head of food and drug agency |
| 04:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 04:43.47 | anrp | i bet they poisoned him |
| 04:43.55 | anrp | .. |
| 04:44.55 | blindcoder | what is the estimated delivery time to germany? |
| 04:45.04 | anrp | what shipping did you order? |
| 04:45.05 | blindcoder | starting from $topic_date I'm away for a week |
| 04:45.10 | mashi | iphone nano |
| 04:45.13 | blindcoder | anrp: I _will_ order worldwide express |
| 04:45.24 | anrp | what, you haven't done it yet? |
| 04:45.33 | blindcoder | nope |
| 04:45.41 | linux_galore | anrp: been allot of stuff on www.technocrat.net about the USA having serious problems with food products from China being contaminated, there was something on the Chinese saying it was because of official corruption |
| 04:45.48 | blindcoder | because I don't want it to be at my door while I'm gone and the have it sent back |
| 04:45.52 | anrp | :/ |
| 04:45.54 | aloril | overseer: I think they have intention to fix "self-signed-cert" |
| 04:45.56 | cibomahto | ive been trying to order for a while, but it stops after the first step |
| 04:46.00 | anrp | it's probably not going to sell out |
| 04:46.05 | anrp | so if you waited it's probably ok |
| 04:46.44 | blindcoder | okay |
| 04:46.57 | blindcoder | I was just hoping to get it to time with my returning home :) |
| 04:47.20 | aloril | cibomahto: USA? use 2 letter uppercase |
| 04:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 04:48.12 | anrp | express looks like 2 business day shipping |
| 04:48.16 | anrp | internationally |
| 04:48.19 | mil_ | is zlib and openssl allready in the build? |
| 04:48.31 | anrp | may be less if they get it into the system on friday before shutdown |
| 04:48.45 | anrp | i.e. next monday |
| 04:48.55 | anrp | er.. sorry. 16th is a monday |
| 04:48.58 | anrp | that would be wed then |
| 04:49.11 | blindcoder | hmm |
| 04:49.17 | anrp | if they ship early you might get it monday |
| 04:49.20 | cibomahto | aloril: Thanks! that works |
| 04:49.24 | anrp | but .. *cough* *wheeze* early? |
| 04:49.43 | blindcoder | or to workplace |
| 04:49.43 | linux_galore | anrp: dare say this is the government sending a message to the USA, ok we killed him for you are you now happy heh |
| 04:50.09 | anrp | ;/ |
| 04:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:54.55 | blindcoder | speaking of work, guess I should head there now |
| 04:54.56 | blindcoder | bbl |
| 04:58.52 | cibomahto | so, has anyone looked into simple apps like a calculator or a unit converter? |
| 04:59.19 | gerikes | I'm looking to try to get openmoko to compile. That's my goal before passing out tonight :P |
| 05:02.41 | linux_galore | aloril: we ship over 400 items a day with only three people |
| 05:02.54 | *** join/#openmoko procto_ (n=procto@groucho.unet.brandeis.edu) |
| 05:02.58 | aloril | linux_galore: ok |
| 05:03.11 | daMaestro | gerikes, what distro? |
| 05:03.36 | linux_galore | aloril: oops, the company I work for ships over 400 items a day with only three people |
| 05:04.03 | aloril | cibomahto: somebody made at least calculator |
| 05:04.40 | daMaestro | hrmmmm |
| 05:04.53 | gerikes | daMaestro: debian. I'm clearing the tmp files right now and am gonna' start again, I think I might have messed up some of the file access rights. |
| 05:04.56 | linux_galore | Im surprised they are shipping via Taiwan not China |
| 05:05.03 | daMaestro | gerikes, meh.. sok |
| 05:05.12 | daMaestro | gerikes, i've got it packaged for fedora, is why i asked |
| 05:05.13 | cibomahto | aloril: ok, thanks |
| 05:05.18 | anrp | they're shipping via california.. |
| 05:05.22 | anrp | from taiwan |
| 05:05.27 | daMaestro | anrp, yeah.. that is awesome |
| 05:05.36 | anrp | for the usians, ya |
| 05:05.39 | daMaestro | anrp, so when they get state side i should get a tracking number? |
| 05:05.43 | anrp | for everyone else.. |
| 05:05.46 | aloril | anrp: from China via California actually |
| 05:05.57 | aloril | they are manufactured in China |
| 05:06.04 | anrp | alright |
| 05:06.11 | anrp | still, though, they're all going through th eus |
| 05:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 05:06.13 | linux_galore | yeah, I thought they were made in China (Taiwan is more expensive now) |
| 05:06.40 | aloril | China -> Taiwan -> USA would not make much sense I think ;-) |
| 05:06.48 | daMaestro | so, when did the neo get it's fcc approval? |
| 05:06.57 | linux_galore | why the USA ?, the USA isnt well known for GSM |
| 05:07.00 | anrp | china -> us -> eurpoe doesn't make much sense either |
| 05:07.11 | anrp | *europe |
| 05:07.17 | anrp | folks, i think it's time for bed for me |
| 05:07.20 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Openmoko site off-line? |
| 05:07.38 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 05:08.19 | linux_galore | anyway I have to go take some pictures of a telephone for the engineers |
| 05:08.34 | *** join/#openmoko alanleung (n=alanleun@pool-70-19-34-180.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:08.41 | overseer | any bets that the US will settle on GSM after playing games with selling spectrum instead of setting interop standards? |
| 05:08.47 | mil_ | aloril: do you think ruby can performe well on gta01? would be nice to write plugin with ruby while still using the openmoko native trough ruby c extentions.. |
| 05:08.53 | aloril | yeah, kind of 'happy' problem being overloaded ;-) : http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006690.html |
| 05:09.12 | anrp | two? |
| 05:09.37 | aloril | mil_: I don't know |
| 05:09.37 | linux_galore | overseer: 3G here in Australia uses CDMA for the RF but the GSM stack for the network |
| 05:09.39 | xkr47 | my first order that I made 29 hours ago came only now !! |
| 05:09.44 | daMaestro | roh, ping |
| 05:09.52 | xkr47 | and it has a ticket #2602 |
| 05:09.57 | aloril | xkr47: from your first order? oh... so it was in queue, but there was some problem ... |
| 05:10.18 | anrp | 2602? |
| 05:10.20 | anrp | ... oi |
| 05:10.34 | aloril | 783 ... hmmm in that case there could be many double orders .. |
| 05:10.42 | xkr47 | it seems as they had a big queue somewhere that got flushed |
| 05:10.57 | xkr47 | or well, I'm just guessing |
| 05:11.03 | gcb77_ | Still no confirmation here, and I was 183x :( |
| 05:11.04 | linux_galore | xkr47: make an unboxing video and put it on youtube |
| 05:11.07 | aloril | xkr47: yeah, but then your 'second' order that got trough first is now earlier ;-) |
| 05:11.26 | xkr47 | yeah... |
| 05:11.49 | xkr47 | seems as the mailing lists are alive again too |
| 05:11.50 | linux_galore | no one has done a neo unxoing video yet that I can see |
| 05:11.59 | linux_galore | unboxing* |
| 05:12.00 | xkr47 | linux_galore, :) |
| 05:12.36 | xkr47 | linux_galore, prolly I won't be getting the phone first of all people :) |
| 05:12.43 | gerikes | I'd be happy with a boxing video from FIC to savor my appetite. :P |
| 05:13.08 | linux_galore | the unboxing video can become very addictive |
| 05:13.13 | Rakshasa | mornin' |
| 05:13.16 | linux_galore | sort of like geek porn |
| 05:13.32 | happycube | and then there's video of the 'lunchbox' too |
| 05:13.47 | *** join/#openmoko writeonlymemory (n=akemp@adsl-209-167-98-177.kwic.com) |
| 05:14.05 | writeonlymemory | i have been trying all day to order a phone but the order page doesn't work |
| 05:14.06 | xkr47 | lol.. "Geek porn shop" |
| 05:14.08 | gerikes | I think the unboxing video should just be a person taking it out, and then going off and playing with it, forgetting about actual fact they're making a video. |
| 05:14.12 | writeonlymemory | is everyone having this problem? |
| 05:14.12 | aloril | writeonlymemory: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ http://tinyurl.com/2dalyb (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 05:14.15 | Rakshasa | Of course the phone had to be released now. I've already used all my monies buying a new laptop. =/ |
| 05:14.16 | xkr47 | "Adu^H^H^HGeek Videos" |
| 05:14.28 | xkr47 | gerikes, :) |
| 05:14.41 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 05:14.48 | xkr47 | Rakshasa, maybe you wait for 02 then.. |
| 05:14.49 | aloril | writeonlymemory: if you are from USA, use 2 letter uppercase |
| 05:14.55 | notserpe | writeonlymemory: common problem was needing 2 digit code. |
| 05:14.58 | writeonlymemory | aloril: canada |
| 05:14.59 | Rakshasa | xkr47: Most likely. |
| 05:15.02 | anrp | even if you're not, make it uppercase anyway |
| 05:15.10 | linux_galore | I need wifi so Im stuck till the 02 is released |
| 05:15.16 | anrp | canadia seemed to need it too |
| 05:15.17 | notserpe | notserpe: I'm montreal and had the problem. Needed QC and not Quebec in both fields. |
| 05:15.26 | notserpe | er s/notserpe/writeonlymemory/ |
| 05:15.35 | writeonlymemory | notserpe: ok trying |
| 05:16.06 | linux_galore | Im thinking of case hacking thr GTA02 and adding a digicam |
| 05:16.19 | linux_galore | ie add a usb digicam |
| 05:16.20 | writeonlymemory | oh ffs |
| 05:16.25 | writeonlymemory | :) that's silly |
| 05:16.28 | gerikes | lol |
| 05:16.30 | writeonlymemory | i just kept getting back a blank page |
| 05:16.30 | linux_galore | nope |
| 05:16.57 | writeonlymemory | will "standard" shipping get it to me in canada or do i need worldwide do you think? |
| 05:18.11 | notserpe | I see fedex as a possible shipping option. Ground UPS (if that is the 15.00 option, i dunno) will end up with hefty UPS customs brokerage fees at your door. Somewhere around an extra 50.00 |
| 05:18.53 | aloril | so it was: while(!mailing_succeeded()) {}; create_rt_ticket(); |
| 05:19.00 | writeonlymemory | hmm... so i have "standard", "worldwide_expedited", "saver" and "worldwide_expeditied_plus" |
| 05:19.02 | notserpe | FedEx air is what I'm hoping for shipping to Canada. |
| 05:19.08 | anrp | its ups |
| 05:19.09 | writeonlymemory | perhaps worldwide_expedited is the correct choice |
| 05:19.10 | anrp | all the way |
| 05:20.32 | writeonlymemory | anrp: so for canada should i pick the "world wide expedited" option to be safe? |
| 05:20.45 | anrp | it'll definately work, it's not that cheap tho |
| 05:21.02 | anrp | i can't say for a fact if it shows valid-for-canada options |
| 05:21.05 | notserpe | wiki shipping notes correctly state Fedex air is best for canada. I choose Express from the store since I want the least grief. only time will tell... |
| 05:21.37 | writeonlymemory | notserpe: it's not clear to me which one is fedex air from the list though -- none of them say fedex only |
| 05:21.47 | writeonlymemory | s/only$// |
| 05:21.58 | notserpe | I don't think there is a fedex type option on the direct...com site. |
| 05:22.12 | |R | notserpe : know anyone else in mtl calling one? |
| 05:22.16 | |R | (mtl here too ;) |
| 05:22.26 | writeonlymemory | ok well i wll just go with the worldwide expedited -- that should get it done |
| 05:22.33 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Openmoko site off-line? |
| 05:22.57 | notserpe | |R: nope. not at the moment. |
| 05:23.48 | aloril | above: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006708.html |
| 05:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@80.122.23.18) |
| 05:23.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[P1_Owners]] [[Wish_List]] |
| 05:24.02 | |R | Now we need to convince Ile Sans Fil to make a mesh for these phones too hook up to ;) |
| 05:24.09 | |R | s/too/to/ |
| 05:24.15 | aloril | "It's just really slow. We're trying to increase our capacity but please give us some time. Our system admin / gsmd architect is passed out from exhaustion. He just landed in Taiwan. ;-)" |
| 05:24.47 | CM | Sounds like it |
| 05:25.01 | notserpe | |R: no wifi yet so no mesh :] |
| 05:25.35 | notserpe | anyhow mesh on these phones is impractical no? |
| 05:25.48 | aloril | hopefully after this initial rush he can allows himself to rest a bit |
| 05:25.57 | *** join/#openmoko Tjikkun (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl) |
| 05:27.01 | *** topic/#openmoko by aloril -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later |
| 05:27.29 | aloril | (wiki seems responsive now) |
| 05:28.04 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 05:34.27 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe_ (n=Eric@67.55.26.38) |
| 05:37.03 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@80.122.23.18) |
| 05:37.30 | daMaestro | sp, who is in charge of figuring out what prepay + data access plan is the best? |
| 05:37.52 | daMaestro | at least in the US... on the other side of the pond.. they let you people do what you want |
| 05:37.53 | daMaestro | lol |
| 05:38.34 | *** join/#openmoko _notserpe (n=eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 05:46.19 | aloril | hmm... could you terminate contract for free by using VOIP or prohibited usage (instead of $175 termination fee)? ;-) http://www.broadbandreports.com/shownews/ATTs-iPhone-Fine-Print-85598 |
| 05:50.03 | alanleung | aloril : that full of shit |
| 05:50.34 | hads | Ya what? |
| 05:50.41 | mashi | iphone's mail support attachments |
| 05:51.49 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:51.59 | __alurdun | openembedded.org is toast. |
| 05:52.13 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: why no lowlevel_foo for gtaXX ? |
| 05:52.57 | xkr47 | daMaestro, do most states in the US have the same kind of data access plan etc offers available? |
| 05:52.57 | daMaestro | pretty much |
| 05:52.59 | daMaestro | and they all suck |
| 05:53.19 | __alurdun | You think US plans suck? Try a Canadian plan. |
| 05:53.25 | mashi | damaestro : i am using cingular 3G. it's ok |
| 05:53.32 | mashi | alurdun : even worst ;) |
| 05:53.34 | xkr47 | daMaestro, doh |
| 05:53.43 | daMaestro | mashi, ok.. well 3g does no good with the moko |
| 05:53.51 | daMaestro | mashi, and you should be saying att |
| 05:53.59 | mashi | right.. att now |
| 05:54.14 | mashi | the broadband reports reporter is moron |
| 05:54.42 | daMaestro | i'm thinking of trying to do prepay sim with a the wap access for $5.95/m to start |
| 05:54.43 | mashi | all carrier have fix ETF now |
| 05:54.45 | happycube | i think sprint has the best 3g data right now, but it's cdma :P |
| 05:54.52 | _notserpe | __alurdun: depressing, eh |
| 05:55.14 | happycube | verizon's is TOS'd into uselessness |
| 05:55.17 | daMaestro | according to a few forums.. you can proxy out of the tmobile network |
| 05:55.21 | happycube | yeah |
| 05:55.27 | happycube | and i think t-zones is part of prepaid... |
| 05:55.34 | happycube | ;) |
| 05:55.39 | mashi | happycube : some of them are |
| 05:55.46 | mashi | depend on how lucky you are |
| 05:55.54 | happycube | ahhh |
| 05:56.05 | *** join/#openmoko Tjikkun (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl) |
| 05:56.17 | xkr47 | daMaestro, maybe you should start a page on the wiki for finding out the best offers in US.. to me it sounds like a good idea? |
| 05:56.28 | mashi | seriously.. the guy put article in broadband reports may never use cellular phone |
| 05:56.31 | xkr47 | maybe it could list the top 3 alternatives |
| 05:57.05 | mashi | for ATT. you pay $20 mediamax. you can use video streaming no problem |
| 05:57.33 | mashi | sprint just send out 1000 letter to customer and terminate their contract |
| 05:57.56 | blindcoder | re |
| 05:57.58 | mashi | tmo just cancelled my friend's family share. since her father use too much on night/weekend mins |
| 05:58.27 | CM | xkr47: Or just list them all without ranking them ;) |
| 05:58.40 | xkr47 | yeah why not :) |
| 05:58.54 | xkr47 | tmo? trackmania original ?-D |
| 05:59.02 | CM | s/cea/chea/ |
| 05:59.23 | mashi | lol. t-mobile |
| 05:59.27 | daMaestro | mashi, happycube well everything i have read states "tmobile, by default, leaves gprs enabled on their prepaid sims.. for billing purposes" |
| 05:59.52 | mashi | damaestro : I have t-mobile prepaid sim also.. no t-zone |
| 05:59.54 | daMaestro | up until about may of this year, i've read that they have had *free* gprs access for any autorized sim |
| 05:59.58 | blindcoder | *shudder* gprs |
| 06:00.12 | blindcoder | had to pay >400 EUR for 12 MB some time ago... |
| 06:00.17 | daMaestro | then they stuck a proxy in front of that |
| 06:00.21 | blindcoder | because they charged me old prices instead of current ones |
| 06:00.24 | daMaestro | but you can still connect to the proxy and get out |
| 06:00.55 | mashi | i tried. not even work with t-zone |
| 06:00.59 | hads | GPRS is 10c/kB here |
| 06:01.16 | blindcoder | hads: was 27 EUR / MB back then :/ |
| 06:01.51 | hads | Ouch |
| 06:01.59 | mashi | this guy post in broadband report is dumb. he point out all the issue with ATT is standard to other carriers also |
| 06:03.26 | mashi | anyway.. bed time.. take care everyone |
| 06:03.32 | blindcoder | boost fails again :( |
| 06:03.32 | aloril | mashi: not here |
| 06:03.47 | mashi | i wish GTA02 is out.. |
| 06:04.09 | mashi | GTA01 is little bit under power |
| 06:04.31 | aloril | 1) usually only caller billed (except when roaming) |
| 06:05.00 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 06:05.04 | aloril | 2) no termination fees (except those 3G bundles, but those are also always available with bundling) |
| 06:05.09 | mashi | alroil : that's in EU. most carrier have mobile to mobile free(same carrier) |
| 06:05.17 | aloril | and for non 3G phones bundling is illegal |
| 06:05.20 | mashi | in US |
| 06:06.14 | aloril | call price/minute is not expensive even when over quota, data however could be 5EUR/1MB (but there are flat rate 10 EUR plans that are actually unlimited) |
| 06:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B97DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:06.33 | aloril | not aware of forbidden usages for data |
| 06:06.55 | aloril | mashi: so, yeah you need to add "in US" as you did ;-) |
| 06:07.19 | aloril | (there is quite amount of competition in Finland between carriers) |
| 06:07.20 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 06:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.77.154) |
| 06:08.47 | daMaestro | yesss... the wiki is back online |
| 06:09.03 | mashi | aloril : not only in fi.. everywhere in the world ;) |
| 06:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 06:09.42 | mashi | oh yeah.. SE W950 is damn cheap now |
| 06:09.49 | mashi | US$240 |
| 06:10.12 | daMaestro | darn.. but openmoko.com isn't up |
| 06:12.03 | xkr47 | daMaestro, so go add a page for available data plan options etc :) |
| 06:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko _leo__` (n=user@201.221.35.150) |
| 06:14.26 | aloril | 'Linus Torvalds' and 'Steve Jobs' commenting ;-) http://blog.wired.com/monkeybites/2007/07/the-linux-power.html |
| 06:14.32 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-213-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:15.56 | xkr47 | daMaestro, it loaded for me, but very slow |
| 06:16.21 | xkr47 | (after 3 minutes it still has 3 images of 22 not finished loading) |
| 06:19.31 | *** join/#openmoko fearphage (n=fearphag@xbmc/user/fearphage) |
| 06:23.59 | blindcoder | okay, now forced boost to use g++-34 |
| 06:24.02 | blindcoder | let's see if that works |
| 06:24.33 | CM | blindcoder: Are there any bug reports about building boost? |
| 06:24.51 | CM | What dist? Gentoo x86? |
| 06:25.10 | blindcoder | CM: ROCK Linux Crystal |
| 06:25.32 | CM | blindcoder: :D That's one I've never even heard of! |
| 06:25.33 | blindcoder | CM: from internal working, I guess you could compare it to gentoo x86 |
| 06:25.51 | blindcoder | CM: it's a distribution build kit, and crystal is the example distribution |
| 06:26.18 | blindcoder | CM: right now I get a few 'failed' with boost 1.34 and gcc 4.0.3 |
| 06:26.18 | CM | Ok. Cool. I'm on gentoo 64-bit |
| 06:26.18 | blindcoder | CM: so I'm trying 3.4 |
| 06:26.53 | blindcoder | still fails :( |
| 06:26.59 | blindcoder | ...failed gcc.link.dll bin.v2/libs/serialization/build/gcc-3.4/debug/threading-multi/libboost_serialization-gcc34-mt-d-1_34.so.1.34.0... |
| 06:27.07 | blindcoder | that's all that is wrt. messages :( |
| 06:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko gremlin[it] (n=gremlin@host209-103-static.32-85-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 06:27.36 | blindcoder | me neither |
| 06:27.36 | gremlin[it] | hi all |
| 06:28.02 | daMaestro | xkr47, i'm not going to add anything until i finish my research |
| 06:28.06 | CM | blindcoder: I've build boost-1.34.0 with gcc-4.1.2 and no trouble |
| 06:28.22 | daMaestro | xkr47, and, sadly, i'm only going to put forth the effort for carriers in my area (including the rebrands) |
| 06:28.27 | blindcoder | CM: just noticed tons of assembler errors earlier in the build process |
| 06:29.14 | daMaestro | xkr47, i'm also battling the concept that if we disclose what carriers you can circumvent (ab)use ... we might end up shooting ourselves in the feet |
| 06:29.52 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker_ (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:30.08 | xkr47 | true |
| 06:31.14 | blindcoder | CM: http://pallas.crash-override.net/foo.txt |
| 06:31.19 | blindcoder | CM: that's the errors |
| 06:31.29 | aloril | quote: <Stephmw> orospakr: can you imagine your 8yr old mashing the on-screen buttons to get Mario to jump? |
| 06:32.04 | CM | blindcoder: Doesn't really say much :( |
| 06:32.09 | aloril | Stephmw[away]: there is simple way around that problem in GTA02: if too much acceleration, make it react more slowly ;-) |
| 06:32.15 | blindcoder | great :( |
| 06:35.43 | gremlin[it] | just an info, the openmoko phone now on sell have the wifi or not ? as the final consumer should have ... |
| 06:35.44 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 06:36.30 | CM | blindcoder: What flags are you using to gcc btw? |
| 06:36.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:36.48 | blindcoder | CM: just found what that is. It's a "Won't fix" bug in gcc 3.4 |
| 06:37.10 | aloril | gremlin[it]: now: not, October: yes |
| 06:37.10 | CM | Ok, maybe that's why it works with gcc-4.1.2 |
| 06:37.13 | blindcoder | CM: see bottom of: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16276 |
| 06:37.34 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@202.140.50.194) |
| 06:37.51 | blindcoder | CM: I'll try 4.0.3, don't have any other gcc on my system |
| 06:39.14 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness (n=koen@host86-131-229-131.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-84-75.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 06:39.56 | blindcoder | CM: okay, it got past the point where 34 broke, now crossing fingers |
| 06:40.19 | CM | blindcoder: IIRC it takes a while to build |
| 06:40.22 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 06:40.25 | blindcoder | ooooh, signedness errors :) |
| 06:40.31 | blindcoder | CM: yeah, around 90 minutes on my machine |
| 06:41.43 | ewanm89_laptop | blindcoder: can you give the whole error message? |
| 06:41.56 | blindcoder | ewanm89_laptop: http://pallas.crash-override.net/foo.txt |
| 06:42.14 | blindcoder | ewanm89_laptop: that's the whole output of the g++ call |
| 06:42.52 | blindcoder | ewanm89_laptop: reload, I've added the g++ call to the top of the file |
| 06:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 06:44.19 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.79.62) |
| 06:44.32 | ewanm89_laptop | blindcoder: Does bin.v2/libs/serialization/build/gcc-3.4/debug/threading-multi/basic_oarchive.o exist? |
| 06:45.01 | blindcoder | ewanm89_laptop: yes |
| 06:45.37 | ewanm89_laptop | Try asking on #boost |
| 06:45.56 | blindcoder | ewanm89_laptop: I found that it is a gcc-3.4.x bug |
| 06:46.04 | ewanm89_laptop | Ah |
| 06:46.10 | blindcoder | ewanm89_laptop: 08:37 < blindcoder> CM: see bottom of: http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=16276 |
| 06:46.27 | CM | blindcoder: But your signedness errors was something else? |
| 06:46.33 | blindcoder | CM: that's just warnings |
| 06:46.46 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 06:46.46 | CM | ok :) |
| 06:47.55 | xkr47 | #2686 latest ticket in P1_Owners |
| 06:48.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 634 has been created by inksmithy(AT)gmail.com |
| 06:48.03 | cdbot2 | * * Cannot target United Kingdom with Country Drop Down |
| 06:48.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=634 |
| 06:48.46 | blindcoder | okay, now going over to company logistics and inquire them about handling of UPS |
| 06:49.00 | blindcoder | so far, that's the best way to have it shipped to me |
| 06:49.11 | xkr47 | yeah, me too |
| 06:49.22 | xkr47 | don't have to be at home when it arrives |
| 06:49.45 | CM | I'll go home when mine comes ;)= |
| 06:49.51 | *** join/#openmoko ferric (n=aditya@balance.wiw.org) |
| 06:49.52 | xkr47 | :) |
| 06:49.56 | blindcoder | xkr47: I'm not anywhere near where it ships when it arrives :( |
| 06:50.07 | xkr47 | doh |
| 06:50.21 | hads | I have #2672 |
| 06:50.35 | blindcoder | 2672? |
| 06:50.36 | ferric | does anyone know if there will be a board option to upgrade GTA01 to GTA02 so that we can get wifi without paying anohter $450? |
| 06:50.37 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 06:50.43 | blindcoder | aren't there only 1000 units anyway? |
| 06:50.55 | xkr47 | blindcoder, ~1802 was the first |
| 06:51.03 | xkr47 | (should have been 1973 ;) |
| 06:51.06 | blindcoder | ./boost/regex/icu.hpp:22:28: error: unicode/utypes.h: No such file or directory |
| 06:51.09 | blindcoder | fun |
| 06:51.14 | hads | blindcoder: Those order IDs don't start from 0 and aren't nessecarily sequential. |
| 06:51.15 | aloril | 853 tickets now |
| 06:51.26 | blindcoder | why do I even specify -sHAVE_ICU=0? |
| 06:51.26 | aloril | (dunno how many double tickets though) |
| 06:51.39 | blindcoder | hads: ah |
| 06:51.49 | xkr47 | aloril, how do you get 853? :) |
| 06:51.59 | aloril | xkr47: oh, 1802? I remember 1820 being first |
| 06:52.07 | xkr47 | sorry, maybe :) |
| 06:52.08 | hads | Yeah, it was I think |
| 06:52.19 | xkr47 | 2686 was the latest I saw |
| 06:52.32 | blindcoder | okay, off to logistics |
| 06:52.33 | blindcoder | bbl |
| 06:52.48 | aloril | <Jason1> roh: 1820 <roh> Jason1 then you really got the first order through |
| 06:52.50 | xkr47 | hads, add yourself to the P1_Owners page ?-) |
| 06:53.10 | xkr47 | :) |
| 06:53.19 | ferric | does anyone actually have one here? |
| 06:53.30 | xkr47 | CM came second, go sweden! :) |
| 06:53.37 | hads | xkr47: It's not confirmed yet so I don't own one :) |
| 06:53.48 | gremlin[it] | aloril, what is now on sell is P1 or P2 ? |
| 06:53.54 | aloril | P1 |
| 06:54.13 | aloril | what is sold NOW does NOT have wifi |
| 06:54.17 | xkr47 | me neither, I just got the "internet is working" confirmation |
| 06:54.40 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=zhaoshic@222.66.81.98) |
| 06:55.16 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 06:56.05 | gremlin[it] | thanks aloril ... really a shame ... |
| 06:56.13 | aloril | gremlin[it]: for really detailed information: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware |
| 06:56.29 | Richard | Doesn't esd support adjust volume during play? |
| 06:56.52 | aloril | well.. this is pretty good summary page ;-) http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone_%28GTA01%29 |
| 06:57.16 | ferric | aloril: do you know if it'll be possible to upgrade the board on the GTA01? |
| 06:57.17 | CM | Richard: esd? |
| 06:57.32 | aloril | ferric: don't know, it might be |
| 06:57.33 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Group purchase/shipping generally |
| 06:58.10 | ewanm89_laptop | ferric: sean said he liked the idea in a mailing list post. |
| 06:58.12 | ferric | aloril: hm... |
| 06:58.22 | ferric | ewanm89_laptop: yes, i read that but he hasn't confirmed |
| 06:58.22 | Richard | CM: yes, esound |
| 06:58.39 | CM | Richard: OpenMoko use alsa and pulse audio |
| 06:59.04 | CM | Or were you just asking in general? :) |
| 06:59.11 | Richard | also esd protocol? |
| 06:59.32 | linux_galore | pulse is pretty cool |
| 06:59.38 | aloril | about upgrading board: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006108.html |
| 06:59.41 | linux_galore | still needs work though |
| 06:59.55 | aloril | and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-July/000016.html |
| 07:00.00 | Richard | pulse is cool for what? |
| 07:00.12 | blindcoder | meh, can't grab anyone from there right now |
| 07:00.18 | ferric | aloril: cool, thx |
| 07:00.32 | CM | Richard: Lennard did a good summary of it, I'll find the slides |
| 07:00.57 | Richard | CM: thanks |
| 07:01.02 | linux_galore | grr now getting spam with an attached pdf, <sigh> |
| 07:01.06 | aloril | a bit confused at: http://www.boingboing.net/2007/07/09/openmoko_linuxbased_.html |
| 07:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko beirut (n=ryan@c-71-56-136-241.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 07:01.26 | aloril | quotes: " Integrated AGPS" and then 'Gabriel sez, "The current version of the Neo1973 has built-in GPS too,' |
| 07:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:01.48 | CM | Richard: http://0pointer.de/public/pulseaudio-presentation-lca2007.pdf |
| 07:01.49 | linux_galore | ferric: wait till the GTA02 comes out, hardware is miles better and you get wifi |
| 07:02.12 | CM | Richard: "Drop in replacement for ESD" :) |
| 07:02.53 | xkr47 | nice, 304 users on this channel :) |
| 07:02.55 | Richard | CM: thanks a lot! |
| 07:03.00 | jeddy3 | linux_galore, hardware is miles better? |
| 07:03.02 | blindcoder | if you can get the new board for a reasonable price, there's no need to wait :-) |
| 07:03.19 | linux_galore | jeddy3: better cpu and a 3D graphics processor |
| 07:03.38 | jeddy3 | linux_galore, still, miles? :P |
| 07:04.01 | jeddy3 | linux_galore, software is miles better :) |
| 07:04.04 | ferric | linux_galore: but if the board is replaceable that makes it ok, yes? |
| 07:04.06 | linux_galore | jeddy3: well wifi for me is a must, bluetooth is like a poor mans wifi to me |
| 07:04.09 | notserpe | linux_galore: assuming P2 hits October milestone... also |
| 07:04.37 | ferric | which is highly suspect, given P1 delays |
| 07:04.43 | *** part/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 07:04.50 | linux_galore | well I can wait, I wouldnt be suprised if jan 08 is the release date |
| 07:04.59 | aloril | sounds like direct only until October: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006704.html |
| 07:05.05 | hads | Such negativity. |
| 07:05.33 | notserpe | same here. October to January is a long way away. |
| 07:05.37 | daMaestro | and i wanted to put my money where my mouth has been and come out in support of FIC |
| 07:05.46 | notserpe | daMaestro: we think alike! |
| 07:05.51 | daMaestro | ;-) |
| 07:05.59 | linux_galore | Ive got a N95 (Toshiba G900 on order for testing) so I can wait |
| 07:07.03 | linux_galore | ferric: go look at the G900 on youtube , makes the blackberries look like a toy |
| 07:07.43 | ferric | er, anything that runs windowsmobile needs to be destroyed |
| 07:08.08 | ferric | i suppose waiting for a few days as people get their phones might make sense. |
| 07:08.11 | linux_galore | nothing is worse than Simbian |
| 07:08.13 | xkr47 | er, doesn't all phones look like toys :) |
| 07:09.00 | linux_galore | Ive crashed my N95 a few times now |
| 07:10.37 | linux_galore | one of the reasons I really like the idea of a Linux mobile phone is you can just remove the crap thats making it crash |
| 07:11.01 | linux_galore | or patch it |
| 07:11.12 | linux_galore | nope Im stuck till Nokia give me an update |
| 07:11.45 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host86-147-20-165.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:12.50 | linux_galore | xkr47: HTC have a phone with a 7" LCD and a keyboard, hard put to call that monster a toy |
| 07:13.10 | xkr47 | :) |
| 07:13.55 | linux_galore | xkr47: I found it amusing that Apple releases the iPhone and HTC/Microsoft release the "big assed phone from hell" about the same time |
| 07:14.26 | xkr47 | and openmoko.. :) |
| 07:14.28 | linux_galore | goes quite well with their big assed table |
| 07:14.51 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-07-10 07:11) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in |
| 07:14.51 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-10 07:11) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in |
| 07:15.15 | aloril | (just added Sean's mail about distributed shipping at October which I linked above) |
| 07:15.18 | linux_galore | ie Microsoft touch sensitive table |
| 07:16.23 | linux_galore | aloril: yeah I saw something on planet moko about FIC saying they are on schedule for october |
| 07:16.47 | linux_galore | ie GTA02 |
| 07:18.28 | aloril | linux_galore: don't see anything except initial announcement (from 2007-06-27) |
| 07:19.27 | Tronic | Is the display of OpenMoko multitouch-compatible? |
| 07:19.32 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.79.105) |
| 07:19.38 | ferric | Tronic: no |
| 07:19.43 | Tronic | Too bad :/ |
| 07:19.50 | barf | no apple logo either |
| 07:20.04 | Tronic | Does it have high enough resolution for drawing (writing letters, mostly)? |
| 07:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=vicente@212.166.192.135) |
| 07:20.42 | ferric | yeah, the display is mad good. |
| 07:20.49 | ferric | read the comparison with the iPhone |
| 07:21.38 | CM | Tronic: The resolution of the touch scren is supposed to be very good, but I Haven't tried it so I don't know for sure |
| 07:22.01 | hads | VGA |
| 07:22.01 | aloril | what I have heard about display here is along lines "You have to see it to believe how good it is" ;-) |
| 07:22.07 | linux_galore | aloril: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 |
| 07:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:23.20 | linux_galore | ferric: I though the screen they selected could do multitouch just its not setup |
| 07:23.24 | linux_galore | thought* |
| 07:23.29 | aloril | linux_galore: that is based on 2007-06-27 mail |
| 07:23.40 | ferric | linux_galore: possiblty |
| 07:23.47 | aloril | linux_galore: it could happen, but don't be surprised if its delayed |
| 07:24.19 | linux_galore | aloril: also a mention in June 02 |
| 07:24.25 | linux_galore | on planet |
| 07:24.38 | rwhitby | neo1973 screen cannot do multi-touch. full stop. |
| 07:25.48 | rwhitby | and there has been no talk (or svn checkins) about a different screen for GTA02, so one would expect it's the same screen used again. |
| 07:25.49 | aloril | linux_galore: first prototype of GTA01 was 2006 |
| 07:25.49 | notserpe | anyone have any thoughts on SELinux on OpenMoko? |
| 07:26.04 | aloril | linux_galore: though now I except things to move much faster ;-) |
| 07:26.21 | *** join/#openmoko danilo_ (n=danilo@212.200.65.19) |
| 07:26.26 | ferric | so wait, assuming the board is upgradeable in october - does that mean you could pay $120 and get the wifi/accelerometers/3d aceelerator? |
| 07:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.78.51) |
| 07:26.55 | aloril | GTA01B_v04 hmm.. was it late March or early April? |
| 07:26.59 | rwhitby | that's a pretty wild assumption that the board will be upgradeable. |
| 07:27.08 | *** part/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-67-149.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 07:27.17 | ferric | rwhitby: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006108.html |
| 07:27.53 | rwhitby | ferric: yes, I've read that too. |
| 07:28.02 | ferric | ...and you still think it's wild? |
| 07:28.05 | rwhitby | yep |
| 07:28.10 | ferric | or, is sean over-promising as usual? |
| 07:28.13 | rwhitby | yep |
| 07:28.26 | aloril | Sean is optimistic ;-) |
| 07:28.34 | ferric | heh |
| 07:28.53 | ferric | i guess i'll sleep on it, hopefully there will still be some neo's tomorrow. |
| 07:29.12 | blindcoder | ferric: same thoughts I had yesterday :) |
| 07:29.13 | aloril | ferric: they will make more... |
| 07:29.17 | hads | There will be more |
| 07:29.17 | blindcoder | still no real decision today |
| 07:29.23 | ferric | lol blindcoder |
| 07:29.28 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2EAC6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:29.31 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:29.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Group_Order]] [[Wish_List]] [[Steampunk]] [[Category:Neo1973_alternate_cases]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Category:Neo1973_case_mods]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[User:Dux]] |
| 07:29.46 | blindcoder | ferric: if it's not upgradable, there's no reason for me to spend 700 usd on an inferior product |
| 07:29.57 | aloril | TRIsoft: I recall you had plans to resell Neo1973? |
| 07:30.00 | hads | It'd be hard to say whether there'd be any of the first 1k left tomorrow. |
| 07:30.18 | ferric | 700!?!!! |
| 07:30.24 | rwhitby | ferric: I've held an open neo1973 in my hands, and looked at how i would go removing the lcd and stuff. |
| 07:30.28 | blindcoder | ferric: shipping and import VAT |
| 07:30.30 | rwhitby | (I have two of them) |
| 07:30.40 | TRIsoft | aloril: Not just plans. Talking with FIC/OM since the last 6 months ;-) |
| 07:30.46 | hads | aloril: I do if/when that is an option. |
| 07:30.49 | ferric | rwhitby: so upgrading woill be hard? |
| 07:31.11 | aloril | TRIsoft: yeah, but have you already ordered bundle of them? ;-) |
| 07:31.11 | ferric | blindcoder: ouch |
| 07:31.23 | rwhitby | upgrading which consists of replacing the *entire* internals (board, screen, etc as one unit) is easy. but that would cost the same as a new unit basically |
| 07:31.23 | ferric | i was going to whine about $15 ground shipping but i'll pass :) |
| 07:31.30 | CM | I'm expecting to buy a GTA02 later on |
| 07:31.37 | ferric | rwhitby: not if the board is $150/ |
| 07:31.50 | rwhitby | who said the board is $150? |
| 07:31.53 | CM | Highly doubtful that it's just a quick swap upgrade |
| 07:31.59 | blindcoder | ferric: heh, 115 USD shipping :( |
| 07:32.01 | TRIsoft | aloril: It's not that easy. Last info is that they want direct shipping for at least the first month. |
| 07:32.14 | aloril | well.. I guess http://www.trisoft.de/en_index.html will be updated once you have some concrete... (assuming I recall correctly that you and this site belong together) |
| 07:32.21 | aloril | ah, ok |
| 07:32.37 | ferric | rwhitby: ah, right. not sean, it was someone else. |
| 07:32.43 | rwhitby | exactly. |
| 07:32.50 | aloril | ferric: that is just educated guess by outsider |
| 07:32.52 | TRIsoft | aloril: Definitely. We're just waiting for the "GO" signal from Sean... |
| 07:33.04 | ferric | i guess i'll wait, then. |
| 07:33.04 | rwhitby | lots of people post wrong information based on no knowledge of how much is costs to make stuff |
| 07:33.11 | ferric | for gta02 till jan08 or whenever :) |
| 07:33.44 | hads | There's plans to distribute Phase 2 through resellers right? |
| 07:33.49 | ferric | rwhitby: economies of scale help, but i doubt this is going to sell as much as the iphone :D |
| 07:34.04 | aloril | hads: it sounds like that |
| 07:34.14 | Richard | any reason that open use jiff2 instead of yaffs2? |
| 07:34.19 | *** part/#openmoko overseer (n=overseer@dsl092-044-123.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 07:34.24 | hads | I was planning on talking to them about that since we run a telephony related store here. |
| 07:34.50 | Richard | any reason that openmoko use jiff2 instead of yaffs2? |
| 07:35.00 | TRIsoft | hads: Phase 2 phones should be available in almost every store... |
| 07:35.17 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B97DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:35.35 | rwhitby | ferric: economies of scale kick in when you sell millions, not hundreds. |
| 07:35.41 | *** join/#openmoko olv (n=olvaffe@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 07:36.04 | hads | TRIsoft: Cool, as I suspected. Probably not every store over here though, stuff like this doesn't get sold much locally. That's why I got into it :) |
| 07:36.24 | rwhitby | Richard: probably cause openembedded is already set up to produce jffs2 images, but is not set up to produce jaffs2 images |
| 07:36.45 | CM | Richard: Hopefully logfs can be used soon :) |
| 07:36.59 | aloril | but.. then I don't know about that stuff, just doesn't feel like it |
| 07:37.07 | rwhitby | aloril: absolutely no chance - the board (and everything attached to it) is at least $80 of the material costs |
| 07:37.14 | TRIsoft | hads: FIC/OM will make the Neo available through "normal" distribution channels. So every shop should be able to sell them like any other product |
| 07:37.14 | blindcoder | okay, I've decided. Until there's a decision on upgrade boards made, I won't order. I'll develop stuff in qemu until then. |
| 07:37.24 | aloril | rwhitby: good to know |
| 07:37.47 | rwhitby | the plastic costs nothing (relatively speaking) per unit (once the tooling is done - the tooling itself is very expensive) |
| 07:37.56 | hads | TRIsoft: What does "normal" distribution channels mean? That would be different in every country. |
| 07:37.57 | *** part/#openmoko mil_ (n=nimmer@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 07:38.01 | rwhitby | and there's not much else to the phone which is not attached to the main PCB |
| 07:38.13 | *** join/#openmoko cassidy (n=cassidy@146.82-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 07:38.15 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 07:38.43 | TRIsoft | hads: At least one large distributor for every region. Otherwise you'll never get "mass market" access |
| 07:38.46 | rwhitby | blindcoder: I think you can assume that board upgrade plans (even if the did make sense) would be way down the list of priorities ... |
| 07:39.06 | TRIsoft | hads: But Phase 2 is far away :-( |
| 07:39.24 | blindcoder | rwhitby: yeah, probably. It just doesn't amke sense to pump out 700 usd now just to pump out another 600 usd when phase 2 starts. |
| 07:39.40 | blindcoder | rwhitby: I'm not exactly shitting gold bricks :-) |
| 07:39.44 | rwhitby | blindcoder: yep, that the decision that each person needs to make. |
| 07:39.45 | aloril | rwhitby: yeah, I guess its basically just screen price that could be reduced |
| 07:40.17 | hads | TRIsoft: Yeah, "normal" is relative :) I deal with distributors all over the show because of weird distribution schemes. |
| 07:40.41 | rwhitby | aloril: I'd like to see even 1 out of 10 geeks be able to remove the screen from the PCB and attach a new one without breaking something. |
| 07:40.49 | TRIsoft | hads: That's all still in planning stage |
| 07:41.08 | hads | TRIsoft: But good to know. I'll be there to import them into NZ when it happens from whereever the closest distribution point is. |
| 07:41.15 | ajmitch | hads: so I might see one in a local shop one day? :) |
| 07:41.17 | aloril | blindcoder: where do you get $700? |
| 07:41.34 | blindcoder | aloril: 450 USD dev kit + 115 USD shipping + 19% import VAT |
| 07:42.06 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest18.crihan.fr) |
| 07:42.16 | CM | I wonder if there's any chance to avoild the import tax.. |
| 07:42.30 | hads | ajmitch: :) I'll import them and sell them as long as it has a decent distribution arrangement and it's financially viable. |
| 07:42.36 | aloril | fly to USA, buy one, fly back? ;-) |
| 07:42.45 | blindcoder | CM: only by picking it up personally |
| 07:43.14 | blindcoder | sadly, I don't have anyone going to the US anytime... |
| 07:43.21 | hads | ajmitch: My mission is to sell open source related intering stuff :) |
| 07:43.36 | CM | blindcoder: A shame that tickets to Taiwan is more expensive than the VAT. I'd gladly travel some ;) |
| 07:43.50 | ajmitch | hads: looking forward to it :) |
| 07:43.51 | blindcoder | CM: yeah |
| 07:44.03 | *** join/#openmoko kensan (n=rueegseg@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 07:45.03 | blindcoder | CM: in theory, if you declare a value of 0 you don't pay income tax |
| 07:45.07 | blindcoder | CM: becasue 19% of 0 is 0 |
| 07:45.17 | blindcoder | CM: the question is whether customs believe that |
| 07:45.29 | blindcoder | import tax |
| 07:45.38 | CM | blindcoder: Yes, mark it as "Gift". But it's fraud, even if I wouldn't care... |
| 07:45.39 | *** join/#openmoko goodfoot (i=user@gateway/tor/x-e9775a90d7a84c23) |
| 07:46.00 | *** part/#openmoko goodfoot (i=user@gateway/tor/x-e9775a90d7a84c23) |
| 07:46.00 | blindcoder | CM: depending on local law... since I'm not going to _resell_ it, it has a market value of 0 |
| 07:46.16 | blindcoder | damn, I need one of our logistics guys! now! |
| 07:46.23 | blindcoder | where is everyone when you need them |
| 07:46.27 | wizdumb | hey the site is back up :) |
| 07:47.09 | wizdumb | I have a question, will the current dev model be upgradable to the new specs for the next hardware revision? |
| 07:47.29 | blindcoder | wizdumb: that's what everybody wonders and noone really knows |
| 07:47.40 | wizdumb | FIC isnt telling eh? |
| 07:48.05 | aloril | CM: fly to California, create Beowulf cluster from Neo1973's and then import that as personal item ;-) |
| 07:48.12 | blindcoder | ah, a logistics guy |
| 07:48.15 | blindcoder | brb |
| 07:48.16 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.77.122) |
| 07:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko LarstiQ (n=larstiq@cust.7.157.adsl.cistron.nl) |
| 07:49.30 | aloril | wizdumb: they don't have resources to evaluate that question |
| 07:50.02 | wizdumb | fair enough |
| 07:50.45 | wizdumb | some friends are curious why gtk library was chosen over qt? |
| 07:50.52 | wizdumb | if anyone knows? |
| 07:50.59 | CM | aloril: Hehe |
| 07:51.00 | aloril | guess: LGPL vs GPL |
| 07:51.08 | koen|inverness | wrong |
| 07:51.27 | koen|inverness | QToptia wasn't GPL at the time, it was closed & proprietary |
| 07:51.49 | aloril | koen|inverness: umm.. isn't QT!=QTopia? |
| 07:52.07 | CM | wizdumb: I (and rwhitby) highly doubts that you will be able to update the GTA01 to a 02 |
| 07:52.24 | aloril | with GTK vs QTopia its also former being just X11, later being special stuff |
| 07:52.33 | blindcoder | okay, it seems it's possible |
| 07:52.52 | blindcoder | basic idea is to mark it as 'development sample' to get around most customs hassles |
| 07:53.00 | aloril | there is simple way to upgrade GTA01 to GTA02: ebay GTA01, buy GTA02 |
| 07:53.12 | wizdumb | CM, is that true of all the hardware updates? for example, could the wifi or the tilt accelerometers be added? |
| 07:53.32 | aloril | that probably gets all price reduction any board update could get |
| 07:53.36 | wizdumb | i suppose thats a tough call if they dont have it finished yet |
| 07:54.02 | notserpe | wizdumb: speedevil mentioned that he might make some debug port 3d accel |
| 07:54.58 | aloril | difference between: 1) buy GTA01 later buy GTA02 board |
| 07:55.09 | aloril | 2) buy GTA01 later buy GTA02 |
| 07:55.16 | aloril | and sell GTA01 |
| 07:55.27 | wizdumb | fair enough |
| 07:55.30 | blindcoder | aloril: who's gonna buy a gta01 when the 02 is available? |
| 07:55.53 | Kero | blindcoder: for which country/ies does that 'dev sample' help? |
| 07:56.00 | aloril | difference between 1) and 2) is that with 1) you have board left without case and screen, but otherwise I suspect with 2) you get more reduction in price |
| 07:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 07:56.10 | wizdumb | so does anyone know if its possible to use qt on the device? or is it limited to gtk only? |
| 07:56.25 | aloril | blindcoder: price difference between new GTA02 and used GTA01 is quite nice ;-) |
| 07:56.30 | blindcoder | Kero: germany here |
| 07:56.43 | koen|inverness | wizdumb: the device is open, it runs anything you compile |
| 07:56.50 | blindcoder | Kero: still waiting for confirmation from logistics though |
| 07:57.02 | notserpe | aloril: my plan is perhaps a) buy GTA01, hope upgrade path b) buy P2 c) mount P1 on my bike as dumb AGPS until I crash, d) add data to openstreetmap ;-) |
| 07:57.25 | xkr47 | d) before you crash :) |
| 07:57.35 | wizdumb | koen|inverness, but you couldnt just make use of qt "instead of" gtk, since matchbox relys on it, is that correct? |
| 07:57.49 | koen|inverness | incorrect |
| 07:58.01 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 07:58.14 | Kero | blindcoder: ok, I'm in .nl chances are, works similar here. lemme know what your logistics guy tells you |
| 07:58.21 | blindcoder | notserpe: c) is actually an interesting idea |
| 07:58.24 | notserpe | okay, c) pt II have it bluetooth gps data to my pc when in range until I crash it. |
| 07:58.33 | aloril | blindcoder: I would almost surely buy used GTA01 for $100 ... ;-) |
| 07:58.47 | blindcoder | notserpe: if I could combine that gps data with a camera and a map... |
| 07:59.32 | notserpe | blindcoder: I'll build a streaming bike video app once a camera model is available. 100%! |
| 07:59.46 | blindcoder | notserpe: I'm not interested in _any_ mobile phone with a camera |
| 07:59.46 | aloril | wizdumb: OpenMoko is just normal Linux distribution |
| 07:59.54 | blindcoder | notserpe: too much hassle in the corporate world |
| 08:00.17 | *** join/#openmoko danilo_ (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 08:00.18 | aloril | albeit quite stripped down, but .. |
| 08:00.28 | blindcoder | notserpe: I got a realy nice cam with a sweet IEEE1394 interface and a standart tripod mount |
| 08:00.37 | CM | blindcoder: I agree, corporate securtiy ppl is a pain! :P |
| 08:00.37 | blindcoder | notserpe: which I'm going to mount on my motorbike |
| 08:01.12 | blindcoder | CM: yeah, so currently I'm stuck with crappy phones because good ones without cameras just aren't made anymore |
| 08:01.12 | wizdumb | aloril, right, so i guess what I'm trying to understand is how much of it was designed specifically around the use of GTK, so if someone wanted to use QT exclusively instead on theirs, how difficult would that be? |
| 08:01.58 | notserpe | blindcoder: someone has a cool fw 360 degree camera system for sale... out of Vancouver or westcoast someplace. I'd love to mount something like that... |
| 08:02.08 | aloril | wizdumb: actually with microSD you can probably install a bit tweaked Debian, etc.. (has anybody done this yet?) |
| 08:02.24 | CM | wizdumb: THe OpenMoko distribution is based on gtk, but I'm sure there's people interested in both qt and enlightment gui's on the Neo |
| 08:02.44 | blindcoder | notserpe: sounds sweet |
| 08:03.10 | CM | That's not even a lie |
| 08:03.32 | blindcoder | CM: indeed. |
| 08:04.04 | aloril | its sold as "Developer preview" |
| 08:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@mail.limespot.co.in) |
| 08:05.02 | aloril | wizdumb: install qt and try some qt apps yourself on Qemu? I don't see any reason why that wouldn't work |
| 08:05.18 | wizdumb | awesome, thanks guys :) |
| 08:05.24 | ajmitch | aloril: I suspect that within a few days/hours of getting a GTA01, people will have debian on it |
| 08:06.10 | ferric | rwhitby: so you think it makes more sense to wait for GTA02? |
| 08:06.42 | mjr | though, having qt apps will eat some more precious memory unnecessarily |
| 08:06.47 | mjr | should work, of course |
| 08:07.01 | mjr | (and there's the moko theming and gui guidelines...) |
| 08:07.54 | blindcoder | okay, I just might have someone going to the states... |
| 08:08.27 | ferric | blindcoder: where are you located? |
| 08:08.31 | blindcoder | ferric: berlin |
| 08:08.35 | ferric | ah |
| 08:08.52 | ferric | i have a feeling shipping will come down in a few week |
| 08:08.53 | ferric | s |
| 08:09.12 | blindcoder | ferric: if I can get my hands on a phone without shipping and income tax, I'll buy now and buy later |
| 08:09.21 | blindcoder | ferric: otherwise I'll wait for october |
| 08:09.54 | ferric | wow. |
| 08:09.57 | ferric | that's almost $1k |
| 08:10.07 | blindcoder | I just got a raise :) |
| 08:10.10 | ferric | haha |
| 08:10.20 | ferric | maybe that's what i should do, go ask for a raise |
| 08:10.23 | blindcoder | also, I sold my car (unrelated to the phone) |
| 08:10.50 | ferric | lol |
| 08:11.13 | blindcoder | it's not! |
| 08:11.18 | blindcoder | I sold it because I got a motorbike |
| 08:11.29 | blindcoder | I neer really needed the car in the last 12 months |
| 08:11.36 | CM | aloril: I mailed orders@openmoko.com and asked about having it maked "Development preview" |
| 08:11.36 | blindcoder | drove it about a half dozen times |
| 08:11.56 | blindcoder | all but one time without anything in it besides me |
| 08:11.58 | notserpe | at least you won't run me over talking on your moko while driving your car! |
| 08:12.20 | blindcoder | notserpe: right, I'll run you over looking at my mokos GPS while driving my bike :D |
| 08:12.54 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0F95E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:12.56 | notserpe | and we'll both capture it all on video ;-) |
| 08:13.10 | blindcoder | hehehe |
| 08:15.42 | *** join/#openmoko kensan (n=rueegseg@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
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| 08:20.05 | bedboi | hi there |
| 08:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-87-136.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 08:20.38 | hrw | ho |
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| 08:21.18 | ferric | can u choose the color f the phone? |
| 08:22.03 | Rince | blakc or white |
| 08:22.19 | mjr | ferric, put it in the comment textbox |
| 08:22.32 | *** join/#openmoko kensan (n=rueegseg@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:22.33 | ferric | what are the colors? |
| 08:22.55 | ferric | black/orange and white/orange? |
| 08:23.20 | hrw | black/silver and white/orange |
| 08:23.35 | hrw | there was also white/red but only in prototypes |
| 08:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko crunchywelch (n=welch@ool-18b9456b.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 08:25.22 | ferric | ok i guess i'll have to email them with my color preference |
| 08:27.34 | Stephmw | howdy |
| 08:28.22 | FuzzyCat | who broke uboot |
| 08:29.17 | Stephmw | FuzzyCat: thanks for the ccache info... I'd assumed it could keep them separate |
| 08:30.09 | FuzzyCat | I thought htat too.. until i tried to compile for arm ... then I kept getting errors about libs being in the wrong format |
| 08:30.35 | FuzzyCat | cleared the cache, and it worked fine |
| 08:31.42 | FuzzyCat | actually Stephmw ... |
| 08:31.55 | FuzzyCat | my own stupidness has just struck me |
| 08:32.22 | FuzzyCat | spot the error: "ccache gcc" |
| 08:32.31 | FuzzyCat | when compiling for arm.... |
| 08:32.45 | Stephmw | bwahahaha |
| 08:33.11 | Stephmw | mind you, I've seen toolchains that symlinked arm-gcc to gcc in the past |
| 08:33.15 | Stephmw | esp in a chroot |
| 08:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B97DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:33.34 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 08:33.57 | FuzzyCat | :) |
| 08:38.09 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 08:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko mikini (i=c026c50e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-9d947313c239d2a9) |
| 08:39.50 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 08:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:43.39 | bedboi | hrw: do you think that if I place the order today the neo will arrive until 5 august in italy? I know you don't have psychic powers :) |
| 08:44.20 | bedboi | (do you?) |
| 08:45.45 | ScaredyCat | depends if you select 'ship by donkey' or not.. |
| 08:46.50 | hrw | bedboi: I am not part of openmoko coreteam |
| 08:47.02 | ScaredyCat | shipping should start around 16th, if you select the express option, ups say something like 2 buisness days to main hub, then depending on where you are +1 or +2 |
| 08:48.07 | ScaredyCat | so in *theory* it is possible for it to arrive the week of the 16th |
| 08:48.41 | ScaredyCat | that is of coruse provided they have some ready made... |
| 08:48.41 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-170-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 08:48.50 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 08:48.58 | ScaredyCat | there's no indication of stock level on the site, sadly |
| 08:49.16 | andylockran | ScaredyCat: nor an indication of the well-being of their donkeys |
| 08:50.26 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@147.162.137.87) |
| 08:50.31 | CM | bedboi: The UPS shipping is fairly quick. I think the actual order handling at FIC will be the bottle neck |
| 08:53.39 | ScaredyCat | true andylockran |
| 08:54.35 | hrw | CM: true |
| 08:57.18 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 08:58.22 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@host-88-217-199-211.customer.m-online.net) |
| 08:58.28 | *** part/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 08:58.40 | CM | Seems to be around 700 orders placed, guessing from the order numbers. Will take a while to send |
| 09:02.35 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@a178.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 09:03.40 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 09:03.56 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:06.47 | *** join/#openmoko jouston (n=jouston@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 09:09.11 | ScaredyCat | yes, but they have to to then by order id right :D |
| 09:09.20 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 09:09.21 | ScaredyCat | s/then/them/ |
| 09:09.30 | Stephmw | I'd love to eventually see a chart of orders/time |
| 09:10.07 | ScaredyCat | I think I was 6th |
| 09:10.10 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 09:11.32 | ScaredyCat | of course, it sort of went to pot not long after that |
| 09:11.39 | CM | ScaredyCat: #1826? |
| 09:11.52 | CM | No, 25 |
| 09:12.16 | Fatal | I'm probably 4783 |
| 09:12.35 | Fatal | had to wait for two collegues to find it in their heart that they are geeks |
| 09:12.58 | CM | Fatal: But you've placed an order now or? |
| 09:13.02 | Fatal | yes |
| 09:13.11 | Fatal | did it last night, ~12 hours ago |
| 09:13.21 | CM | And no confirmation email? |
| 09:13.36 | CM | The automated one that says the order registered? |
| 09:13.37 | Fatal | oh, sorry, yes, I got a confirmation email |
| 09:13.40 | Fatal | aye |
| 09:13.40 | *** join/#openmoko rhelmer (n=rhelmer@people.mozilla.com) |
| 09:13.42 | CM | Ah, good :) |
| 09:13.55 | ewon | or any replies to my emails to sales@openmoko |
| 09:13.57 | CM | Exactly, some didn't get it |
| 09:14.07 | mmazur | Some? |
| 09:14.12 | mmazur | And for those that do: what's the from address? |
| 09:14.14 | CM | xkr47 had to redo his order |
| 09:14.16 | ScaredyCat | cm yes 1826 |
| 09:14.26 | ewon | so do I have to resubmit my order? |
| 09:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 09:14.39 | hads | CM: xkr47 now has two confirmations now though... |
| 09:14.43 | mmazur | And what emails are you talking about? The instant one or the final one with 'transaction approved'? |
| 09:14.44 | CM | ScaredyCat: Then you're 7, Jason1 was first with 1820 according to roh |
| 09:14.48 | CM | hads: Heh |
| 09:14.57 | ScaredyCat | :O |
| 09:15.24 | Fatal | ouch |
| 09:15.30 | ScaredyCat | I thought you were first with 1821 .. bah 7 thet's just so unlucky |
| 09:15.31 | hads | CM: Not nessecarily, maybe another mail went into the RT queue that wasn't an order, or whatever. |
| 09:15.46 | blindcoder | okay, at least there's no further customs tax on importing mobile phones, just VAT |
| 09:15.52 | Fatal | we're #760 in that case :X |
| 09:16.11 | CM | mmazur: I haven't gotten a "Transaction approved" mail yet |
| 09:16.14 | Fatal | I'm going to stab my collegues :) |
| 09:16.15 | hads | They aren't nessecarily sequential... |
| 09:16.24 | ScaredyCat | mmazur: trasaciton approved? I haven't had that |
| 09:16.47 | CM | hads: roh said they are squential, but not all are orders. :) |
| 09:16.53 | aloril | CM: got that AutoReply mail for first order today |
| 09:17.10 | hads | CM: hah, yeah, you got me there. |
| 09:17.12 | aloril | s:got:xkr47 got: |
| 09:17.38 | ScaredyCat | " |
| 09:17.38 | ScaredyCat | Please keep in mind that this message does not imply that we accept your order, but thats we have received it. |
| 09:17.38 | ScaredyCat | You will receive another message as order confirmation after our staff has accepted it. |
| 09:17.39 | ScaredyCat | " |
| 09:18.08 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host8-57-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 09:18.15 | aloril | mmazur: talking about automatic mails, I don't think anybody has gotten second actual confirmation mail |
| 09:18.17 | CM | Not feeling very focused at work today.. :P |
| 09:18.19 | ScaredyCat | are they not dealing with them by order id? |
| 09:18.35 | CM | They will |
| 09:18.44 | aloril | maybe all forces are focused on keeping site running? ;-) |
| 09:19.16 | mmazur | ScaredyCat, well, I assume they'll actually *send* something ones they'll get around to like, actually figuring out that mam CC info is ok and that they really want to send me a phone. |
| 09:19.20 | ScaredyCat | peddal faster mickey_away |
| 09:20.14 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I'm sure they want to check, but they could a at least do pre auth on the card... |
| 09:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 09:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 09:20.55 | aloril | also some orders have more than one Neo1973, dunno what rt ticket numbers is == first 1000 units gone, there will be some additional delay now |
| 09:22.15 | ScaredyCat | yeah, bu unless the 6 people before be purchased all 1000, I don;t care :) |
| 09:22.21 | ScaredyCat | s/bu/but/ |
| 09:22.28 | ScaredyCat | me |
| 09:22.32 | ewon | really would appreciate some kind of response from them |
| 09:22.48 | ScaredyCat | gah, type properly finger, or I'll cut you off |
| 09:22.49 | ewon | giving ppl my cc number and then not hearing anything makes one nervois |
| 09:22.54 | blindcoder | yay! boost finally compiled :D |
| 09:23.09 | hads | ewon: Patience, they're busy. |
| 09:23.10 | CM | blindcoder: Congratulations ;) |
| 09:23.22 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@leningrad.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 09:23.33 | mdt | at what moment the creditcard will be charged? know? when shipping? |
| 09:23.46 | CM | ScaredyCat: The maximum you can order on the page is 11 phones. More than that, you'll have to mail Sean |
| 09:23.53 | hads | mdt: Patience, they're busy. |
| 09:24.03 | ScaredyCat | then, I'm safe.. |
| 09:24.05 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 09:24.08 | woglinde | hehe |
| 09:24.11 | woglinde | hi |
| 09:24.28 | jpcass | i ordered a neo yesterday and got a reply e-mail but it was blank - is that everyone else's experience? Anyone got a reply that confirms the order or an order number? |
| 09:24.43 | mdt | jpcass, yes, i did |
| 09:24.53 | ScaredyCat | you just get an rt ticket number |
| 09:25.00 | CM | jouston: Yes, order number and the address info I submitted |
| 09:25.01 | aloril | ScaredyCat: not 'possible', there is 11 unit limit ;-) |
| 09:25.40 | ScaredyCat | aloril: unless CM preordered them all |
| 09:25.40 | CM | :P |
| 09:25.49 | jpcass | scaredycat: yes it looks like an "rt ticket number" - what is that? does that mean Im on a waiting list or something? |
| 09:25.51 | CM | ScaredyCat: I wish I was a filthy rich bastard, but unfortunatley I'm not ;) |
| 09:26.02 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 09:26.19 | ScaredyCat | jpcass: the ticket number is you order number |
| 09:26.32 | ScaredyCat | but the mail should have had your details in it.. |
| 09:26.36 | jouston | CM: What? Order number? |
| 09:26.51 | CM | jouston: #1821 |
| 09:27.09 | jouston | CM: Let me check... XD |
| 09:27.25 | jpcass | scaredycat: thanks, I'll write back. my rt number >2000 so probably Im waiting till october ;-( (thought I was pretty fast) |
| 09:27.25 | aloril | jpcass: it should have ticket number, your address, what you ordered, etc.. |
| 09:27.26 | CM | jouston: Oh, sorry, I meant jpcass |
| 09:27.47 | CM | jouston: Pressed jo <tab> instead of jp. Sorry |
| 09:27.51 | aloril | jpcass: they will manufacture more |
| 09:28.02 | notserpe | anyone have mbox format archives of the various lists? |
| 09:28.08 | ScaredyCat | jpcass: the order number doesn't mean too much, because all email to the rt system is allocated a number, even spam. |
| 09:28.14 | aloril | guess: 0-3 weeks of additional delay |
| 09:28.56 | *** join/#openmoko aa_ (n=ali@pida.vm.bytemark.co.uk) |
| 09:29.13 | ScaredyCat | ... and they only started at 1820 (afaik) |
| 09:29.59 | ScaredyCat | CM: have you replied to your ticket? |
| 09:30.14 | aa_ | hi, can I generally run any pygtk application on an openmoko system? |
| 09:30.15 | aloril | aa_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 09:30.23 | CM | ScaredyCat: Yes, once. To ask if they could label the package Development Sample :D |
| 09:30.25 | mmazur | Yeah, the giving ppl my cc part I didn't actually like either. |
| 09:30.27 | jpcass | scaredycat: ok, good! might be in luck...I replied to that blank email asking for a confirmation, is that mail address monitored by someone or automatic? |
| 09:30.34 | ScaredyCat | I replied to mine requesting a colour choice, but got nothing back.. |
| 09:30.40 | aloril | notserpe: looked at http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/ (those Gzip'd text links) |
| 09:30.41 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:30.48 | ScaredyCat | it should be automated jpcass |
| 09:30.48 | CM | ScaredyCat: Didn't get any reply either |
| 09:30.51 | ScaredyCat | CM: did you get an autoreply ? |
| 09:31.04 | aloril | aa_: yes, but you need to install python and other libraries |
| 09:31.07 | blindcoder | aloril: those aren't mbox format |
| 09:31.13 | jouston | CM: I did make an test order. I thought I didn't delete it yet... :D |
| 09:31.14 | blindcoder | aloril: at least mutt doesn't recognize it as sich |
| 09:31.15 | blindcoder | such |
| 09:31.33 | CM | No, when you mail to oder@om I think it's roh or someone else going through it |
| 09:31.35 | blindcoder | aloril: although for the gsmd-devel I did some manual tweaking |
| 09:31.35 | notserpe | aloril: wow, I can't believe I didn't notice that. thanks. |
| 09:31.36 | aa_ | aloril: and will it look like other openmoko platform applications? |
| 09:32.16 | aloril | aa_: I think python bindings are done for openmoko libraries too |
| 09:32.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[USB/it]] [[Neo1973_Hardware/de]] [[FIC/it]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Digital_gaming]] [[Meet_the_Core_Team/it]] [[Steampunk]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 09:32.46 | aloril | blindcoder: ah, ok (they do have "From " -line so thought they would be...) |
| 09:33.09 | blindcoder | aloril: yeah, but it must be a "From <valid mail address> <date in UTC>" for it to be mbox |
| 09:33.18 | aloril | jpcass: I haven't heard anybody getting black mail |
| 09:33.22 | aa_ | aloril: ok thanks |
| 09:33.24 | *** part/#openmoko aa_ (n=ali@pida.vm.bytemark.co.uk) |
| 09:33.51 | *** join/#openmoko Paladine (n=Paladine@paladine.org.uk) |
| 09:33.53 | cesarb | blindcoder: IIRC, to be a mbox file you only need "From " |
| 09:34.00 | cesarb | blindcoder: what follows varies |
| 09:34.08 | blindcoder | cesarb: not according to mutt and file |
| 09:34.15 | blindcoder | cesarb: file then just says "ASCII english text" |
| 09:34.19 | Paladine | hey, just wanted to congratulate the community on the developer release also the viral ads are pretty cool :) |
| 09:34.33 | *** join/#openmoko ChuckSmith (n=chatzill@gtw.i3g.fh-heilbronn.de) |
| 09:35.12 | aloril | blindcoder: hmm.. maybe some small sed/script job needed: "From arachnid at notdot.net Sun Jul 1 11:33:35 2007" |
| 09:35.17 | blindcoder | cesarb: from 'man mbox': "A postmark line consists of the four characters "From", followed by a space character, followed by the message’s envelope sender address, followed by whitespace, and followed by a time stamp. This line is often called From_ line." |
| 09:35.34 | blindcoder | aloril: yeah, and sometimes it's just random a-z0-9 characters |
| 09:35.42 | woglinde | he blindcoder |
| 09:35.45 | blindcoder | hey woglinde :) |
| 09:36.00 | woglinde | blindcoder do you want play with the neo? |
| 09:36.07 | blindcoder | woglinde: sure |
| 09:36.20 | woglinde | okay let us meeting somewhere |
| 09:36.21 | blindcoder | woglinde: but not willing to pump out 700 USD now and then again in october :( |
| 09:36.29 | aloril | ah, yes simple sed job should be, they have s/@/ at / ;-) |
| 09:36.42 | CM | Paladine: Ordered one yet? ;) |
| 09:36.52 | blindcoder | woglinde: #neo1973-germany |
| 09:37.02 | woglinde | *sigh* |
| 09:37.03 | blindcoder | woglinde: or do you already have one o_SO |
| 09:37.12 | woglinde | I have one ;) |
| 09:37.15 | jpcass | aloril: thanks, i'll chase it up and hope my order was registered... |
| 09:37.16 | blindcoder | WAH |
| 09:37.21 | Paladine | CM, no I am not a developer, I will be getting one in October though when the main release happens |
| 09:37.32 | CM | :) |
| 09:37.41 | Paladine | have been following the "project" for a long time though and promoting it to as many people as I can :) |
| 09:37.51 | blindcoder | woglinde: okay, name the time and place :) |
| 09:38.05 | CM | Paladine: I know, I've seen you in here before |
| 09:38.39 | Paladine | I loved the iPhone viral ad for openmoko :) |
| 09:38.46 | Paladine | the rotting apple |
| 09:38.47 | Paladine | classic |
| 09:39.46 | Paladine | I hope all you dev types have a lot of fun with the first release, seems to be a lot of energy around the project at the moment |
| 09:41.21 | CM | Paladine: Not sure exactly how many orders have been placed at the store, but it's over 500 for sure |
| 09:41.22 | Paladine | I saw a post somewhere on the world wide wonder where someone suggested developing some code to make the phone vibrate when the touchscreen keyoard is used, excellent idea I think |
| 09:41.42 | Paladine | CM, the .com website is very slow obviously getting masses of traffic |
| 09:41.50 | CM | Paladine: Got a link to that rotting apple ad? |
| 09:41.53 | woglinde | paladine you can make a lot of crazy thinks |
| 09:41.57 | woglinde | things |
| 09:42.07 | Paladine | sec cm Iwill find it again |
| 09:42.20 | Paladine | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=POiNqP4savI |
| 09:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:43.04 | *** part/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:43.46 | CM | Paladine: Hehe |
| 09:43.48 | Paladine | but in all serious, this is a great day for open source and indeed for consumers, I think FIC and OpenMoko (the company) are going to go from strength to strength |
| 09:43.52 | CM | Thanks btw |
| 09:44.15 | Paladine | np, I am a staunt apple hater (apple products are banned from my house) so that ad really appealed to me :) |
| 09:45.25 | Paladine | Ithink in October, there are going to be a lot of worried companies out there. I expect they thought it would be a project that bore no fruit, now they are going to be worried about just popular it might be |
| 09:45.27 | Stephmw | Even if you dislike Apple the company and the products, you do have to admit that their UI usability if very good. |
| 09:45.38 | Stephmw | *is |
| 09:45.41 | woglinde | paladine we will see |
| 09:46.00 | woglinde | paladine there are more devices planned beside the neo |
| 09:46.01 | Paladine | Stephmw, yeah but they stole that originally from Gem ;) |
| 09:46.07 | Stephmw | woglinde: I noticed a few more J2ME queries overnight, thanks for helping to answer them :) |
| 09:46.21 | Paladine | woglinde, yeah I know, I am looking forward to it, hoping they move onto other platforms too and not just phones |
| 09:46.28 | Stephmw | Paladine: meh, who cares? :D I like stuff that's easy to use |
| 09:47.32 | woglinde | stephmw hm there are now serval people who wants put afford in the gtk port of phonme |
| 09:47.43 | woglinde | and midp too |
| 09:47.58 | aloril | blindcoder: this should work: sed 's/^From \(.*\) at \(.*\)$/From \1@\2/' |
| 09:48.09 | CM | Paladine: The next device is probably some kind of mediaplayer |
| 09:48.10 | webjames[bed] | i like the compiz fusion interface, although it looks showy, it also adds some helpful use ability features |
| 09:48.21 | aloril | (not tested) |
| 09:48.31 | Paladine | CM, yeah that would be the logical step forward and a valuable one too |
| 09:49.23 | CM | Paladine: Shouldn't say "probably", LaF0rge is already putting code and kernel patches in the svn repo for it :) |
| 09:49.32 | Stephmw | woglinde: I think it's worthwhile starting a wiki topic on Java and/or J2ME |
| 09:49.34 | Paladine | hehehe |
| 09:50.21 | Stephmw | woglinde: did you want to, or shall I? |
| 09:50.33 | Paladine | there is so much good about this project, it makes me very happy :) I have been fighting corporate megalomaniacs for years |
| 09:50.44 | Paladine | even the decision to have an international price, great news for us brits |
| 09:51.04 | Paladine | we are sick of paying 2x as much for our devices compared to north america and europe |
| 09:51.07 | webjames | Paladine, here here |
| 09:51.10 | CM | Paladine: Did you read that OpenMoko is it's own company now, allthough still owned by FIC? |
| 09:51.17 | woglinde | stephmw go on ;) |
| 09:51.21 | Paladine | CM, yeah I read about it last week |
| 09:51.28 | CM | Good news too |
| 09:51.31 | Paladine | thats what I meant above by OpenMoko (the company) |
| 09:51.59 | woglinde | stephwm I am thinking about to help the phoneme gtk port too |
| 09:52.25 | Paladine | hopefully some of the guys who have put so much work into it from the community will have some job opportunities coming in soon |
| 09:53.17 | Paladine | andI won't have to camp outside an Apple store like an idiot for a week before release ;) |
| 09:53.54 | woglinde | paladine and than pay 2500 bucks? |
| 09:54.00 | woglinde | thats idiotic |
| 09:54.02 | woglinde | *g* |
| 09:54.17 | Paladine | wog, yeah I tried to point that out to several iBoys but they didn't get it |
| 09:54.37 | Paladine | "Its only 600 bucks blah blah blah..." |
| 09:54.42 | Paladine | some people eh? |
| 09:55.22 | Paladine | I love the packaging for the Neo Advanced definitely has geek appeal to it :) |
| 09:57.04 | blindcoder | 'only' 600 bucks |
| 09:57.27 | *** join/#openmoko kmshanah (n=kmshanah@ppp235-99.static.internode.on.net) |
| 09:57.43 | Paladine | blindcoder, yeah I was trying to explain to them that with the minimum cost of contract with AT&T made that $2500 but they just didn't seem to understand that part |
| 09:57.48 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.116.3) |
| 09:58.13 | blindcoder | Paladine: yeah, andy ou can't put your own programs on it, too :) |
| 09:58.35 | woglinde | blindcoder he ajax priogramms are great programms |
| 09:58.56 | blindcoder | woglinde: can't say I'm much of a friend of ajax |
| 09:59.02 | Paladine | blind, the only program Iwould want to put on an iPhone would be one that is showing on 50 32" widescreen CRT TVs dropped onto the iPhone from a great height ;) |
| 09:59.17 | blindcoder | Paladine: hehehe |
| 10:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 10:00.23 | woglinde | stephmw hm oh the first gtk patches are from the openmoko-java-project guys |
| 10:01.20 | Paladine | well I better go, I have a 19 month old son demanding my attention. Just wanted to pop in and congratulate you all on a job well done, long may it continue :) |
| 10:01.34 | woglinde | bye paladine |
| 10:01.40 | Paladine | have fun :) |
| 10:01.49 | *** part/#openmoko Paladine (n=Paladine@paladine.org.uk) |
| 10:02.22 | *** join/#openmoko rschuste2 (n=rob@vpn.tarent.de) |
| 10:02.38 | rschuste2 | hi all |
| 10:03.23 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B97DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:03.23 | rschuste2 | which uboot revision is known to accept the current set patches and what do I need to add to my local.conf in order to use a certain uboot revision? |
| 10:03.25 | aloril | rschuste2: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:03.33 | andylockran | are people having more luck with the mokomakefile today? |
| 10:04.03 | CM | andylockran: Build for me yesterday, but I haven't tried today |
| 10:04.15 | CM | s/ild/ilt/ |
| 10:04.16 | rschuste2 | with 4ef218f6fdf8d747f4589da5252b004e7d2c2876 it does not work |
| 10:04.56 | CM | rschuste2: They discussed this in #oe a while ago |
| 10:05.24 | Stephmw | hey rschuste2 |
| 10:05.42 | Stephmw | woglinde: nice :) |
| 10:05.58 | Stephmw | woglinde: which mailing list? |
| 10:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:08.29 | woglinde | http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/java-pkg/ |
| 10:08.42 | woglinde | http://forums.java.net/jive/thread.jspa?threadID=21591&tstart=0 |
| 10:09.49 | Stephmw | cheers |
| 10:10.13 | woglinde | hm I looked a the patches |
| 10:10.23 | woglinde | I think I have done more |
| 10:10.28 | woglinde | but have to check at home |
| 10:10.30 | woglinde | *g+ |
| 10:10.34 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 10:10.47 | Stephmw | I'd love those developers to be a little more vocal on irc |
| 10:11.52 | aloril | sizeof(P1_Owners)/rt_ticket_numbers > 20 |
| 10:13.10 | jgm | aloril: shouldn't that be the other way around? |
| 10:13.18 | blindcoder | yeah, thought so, too |
| 10:13.26 | aloril | jgm: hehe, yeah |
| 10:13.52 | jgm | I can see everyone fighting over their 5% of their Neo :) |
| 10:14.03 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFD3A7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:14.04 | Stephmw | woglinde: no trace of java posts on the openmoko-specific lists :( |
| 10:15.08 | woglinde | stephem hm |
| 10:15.13 | woglinde | ;) |
| 10:15.20 | woglinde | they aare a little bit shy |
| 10:15.44 | Stephmw | :) |
| 10:16.24 | *** join/#openmoko _diego__ (n=diego@host-84-223-73-120.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 10:18.20 | ScaredyCat | is it me or is that a pretty freaking obvious error? |
| 10:18.22 | ScaredyCat | #ifndef __USBDCORE_H__ |
| 10:18.23 | ScaredyCat | #define __USBDCORE_H__ |
| 10:18.36 | ScaredyCat | no endif? |
| 10:18.49 | jgm | ScaredyCat: check the end of the file |
| 10:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko pengwen (n=pengwen@117.80-203-38.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:19.18 | ScaredyCat | k... |
| 10:19.25 | jgm | It's commonly used to avoid problems where you include the same file multiple times in different .c files, so you only really include it once regardless of how many times it turns up in #include |
| 10:19.28 | ScaredyCat | but it's still in error |
| 10:20.20 | jgm | In that case you'd better get re-writing pretty much every .h out there :) |
| 10:20.30 | pengwen | sup with openmoko.com? |
| 10:20.43 | Stephmw | pengwen: heavy load since Monday :) |
| 10:21.08 | pengwen | and its not even on slashdot :) |
| 10:21.16 | Stephmw | it was yesterday |
| 10:22.08 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0DB02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gw.aurisp.de) |
| 10:23.16 | ScaredyCat | jgm: the compile not the .h |
| 10:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko Dvalin (i=hawkeye@terror.sintrax.net) |
| 10:25.40 | jgm | ScaredyCat: not sure what you're saying. The #ifdef/define combo ensure that the entire .h file is only parsed once during compilation, so things like typedefs are only actioned once (otherwise it would through a compiler error) |
| 10:25.55 | jgm | s/through/throw/g |
| 10:26.02 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:26.02 | ScaredyCat | | /home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r11_4ef218f6fdf8d747f4589da5252b004e7d2c2876_0_2348/git/include/usbdcore.h:680:2: error: #endif without #if |
| 10:26.02 | ScaredyCat | | make[2]: *** [../common/udc.o] Error 1 |
| 10:26.20 | ScaredyCat | that's what I'm on about... |
| 10:26.33 | woglinde | put #endif in the end |
| 10:26.55 | Stephmw | I'm betting on a mismatched #if/#endif in the source somewhere |
| 10:27.01 | ScaredyCat | yes... |
| 10:27.03 | ScaredyCat | I know |
| 10:27.11 | jgm | But it isn't the one that you pointed out |
| 10:28.19 | jgm | That stuff compiled fine for me, what are you compiling on? |
| 10:28.29 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 10:28.45 | ScaredyCat | it's an extra #endif at the end methinks |
| 10:29.00 | ScaredyCat | void udc_ctrl(enum usbd_event event, int param); |
| 10:29.01 | ScaredyCat | #endif |
| 10:30.20 | ScaredyCat | on x86 for arm |
| 10:30.50 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@129.Red-83-32-167.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:31.08 | jgm | Interesting, the end of that file for me is like this: |
| 10:31.14 | jgm | enum usbd_event { |
| 10:31.16 | jgm | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:31.18 | jgm | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:31.20 | jgm | }; |
| 10:31.25 | jgm | void udc_ctrl(enum usbd_event event, int param); |
| 10:31.27 | jgm | #endif |
| 10:31.29 | jgm | i.e. only one #endif |
| 10:31.58 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore_ (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:32.03 | andylockran | just had an idea - want to hear your views on it. |
| 10:32.33 | andylockran | How easy would it be to make a repo of openmoko software, so that you could clone your phone apps to be the same as another user. (or to be used as a bcakup) |
| 10:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora_study (n=antenago@147.162.137.87) |
| 10:32.43 | ScaredyCat | yes, just took the other one out jgm .. but svn needs updating |
| 10:33.04 | jgm | Odd thing is that it looks like I have the same repo version as you |
| 10:33.13 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=fjfjjfjh@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 10:33.19 | jgm | /build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r11_e80955f07de03fef0196353e77534b2300193c1c_0_2348/ |
| 10:34.04 | jgm | andylockran: the repo (or distribution) idea is kicking around, the backup thing is more interesting (although if it's just packages then you're not talking much more than a dpkg -l) |
| 10:34.42 | ScaredyCat | 4ef218f6fdf8d747f4589da5252b004e7d2c2876_0_2348 |
| 10:35.03 | jgm | Isn't the repo number just the last bit though (i.e. 2348)? |
| 10:35.06 | andylockran | jgm: true - but I guess it'd be sort of like a wordpress theme - also if the devs are storming ahead with their development, i'd like to be able to quickly sync my neo with a dev whose working in the right direction for me? |
| 10:35.46 | notserpe | ls |
| 10:36.02 | *** join/#openmoko jcazor (n=manager@195.235.93.203) |
| 10:36.15 | jgm | andylockran: so per-developer repos then? |
| 10:36.26 | jgm | Trouble with them is getting the devs to keep them up-to-date, as packaging can be a pain |
| 10:37.06 | ljp | jgm: I am getting the same error |
| 10:37.27 | jgm | Let me update and see if I get it too... |
| 10:37.30 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora_3 (n=antenago@147.162.137.87) |
| 10:37.32 | andylockran | yeah, there are probably holes in my idea.. just thought it'd be a good way for fast customisation (at least for the end-user) |
| 10:38.31 | jgm | It's a good idea, you'll just need to convince the devs to build the infrastructure (or set it up yourself and let them publish to it) |
| 10:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko maxauthority (n=maxautho@193.170.48.242) |
| 10:39.04 | aloril | yesterday record: 343 nicks (318 nicks at 2007-07-08 and 289 nicks at 2007-07-06) |
| 10:39.12 | andylockran | be something good to look into |
| 10:41.32 | Agrajag- | andylockran: just get people to use git or monotone |
| 10:46.57 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=ucordes@e179099112.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:47.09 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A86ADD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:47.12 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-147-20-165.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:47.27 | aloril | SpeedEvil: I guess not much here, except talk, ordering page still up |
| 10:47.50 | andylockran | Agrajag-: I'm pretty new to environment - so am batting around ideas rather than packages - but thanks for the heads up - I'll take a look. |
| 10:48.09 | aloril | SpeedEvil: skepticism about board update idea from GTA01 to GTA02 |
| 10:48.41 | andylockran | aloril: is that probably a no-no then? |
| 10:48.56 | ScaredyCat | and free gta02's to all who have been here for over 6 hours. |
| 10:49.16 | aloril | andylockran: more like not worth of it, most of price is in board anyway (except for screen which isn't that easy to detach and attach) |
| 10:49.58 | aloril | ScaredyCat: hehe, here is better one "I received my Neo1973 already!" ;-) |
| 10:50.10 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 10:51.07 | blindcoder | /bin/sh: line 2: quilt: command not found |
| 10:51.09 | blindcoder | hmm |
| 10:51.14 | blindcoder | now wtf does that belong to? |
| 10:51.27 | woglinde | ah |
| 10:51.28 | ScaredyCat | womens institue |
| 10:51.29 | woglinde | quilt |
| 10:51.39 | ScaredyCat | institute |
| 10:51.52 | jpcass | surely board upgrade is not so expensive |
| 10:51.55 | blindcoder | eww, one of hannes' packages |
| 10:51.58 | blindcoder | probably horribly outdated |
| 10:52.30 | jpcass | would have thought board cost <30% total |
| 10:52.38 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:52.48 | blindcoder | hmm, 0.32 in repository 0.46 actual |
| 10:52.48 | aloril | ScaredyCat: actually, I have even better one: "I received my GTA02 prototype!" ;-) |
| 10:52.57 | SpeedEvil | out of order? |
| 10:53.12 | ScaredyCat | my gta01 has wifi though aloril ;) |
| 10:53.34 | aloril | SpeedEvil: latest number is 867 (2686-1820+1) |
| 10:53.53 | aloril | SpeedEvil: so could be that first 1000 phones have been sold already |
| 10:54.09 | SpeedEvil | I'd imagine it's probable. |
| 10:54.12 | ScaredyCat | don't forget that's just a ticket number... |
| 10:54.26 | SpeedEvil | :( |
| 10:54.32 | aloril | SpeedEvil: also seems that people are getting "AutoReply: OpenMoko direct order" -mails more than 24h later |
| 10:54.34 | blindcoder | so now the devs are just going to the caimans with their 300.000$ :) |
| 10:54.46 | ScaredyCat | for the rt system, any new mails sent generate a new number...even if it's not an order |
| 10:54.48 | rschuste2 | SpeedEvil: for the time being use qemu with the mokomakefile |
| 10:54.50 | SpeedEvil | I've got all the stuff to start attaching hardware to it... |
| 10:54.54 | aloril | so there are double order numbers |
| 10:55.01 | SpeedEvil | Hardware doesn't work so well with qemu. |
| 10:55.42 | woglinde | scaredycat right |
| 10:56.17 | dcordes | ScaredyCat, gta01 with wifi.. using usb? |
| 10:56.30 | aloril | ScaredyCat: how many mails outside orders though? |
| 10:56.37 | ScaredyCat | it was a joke dcordes... |
| 10:56.43 | dcordes | ah ok |
| 10:56.53 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 10:57.30 | aloril | ScaredyCat: even better but 'impossible' to be true: "I have GTA03 prototype!" |
| 10:57.41 | aloril | GTA02 prototype is possible, it exists |
| 10:57.51 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:57.52 | ScaredyCat | <ScaredyCat> and free gta02's to all who have been here for over 6 hours. |
| 10:58.00 | Stephmw | woglinde: ok, I've started, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Java |
| 10:58.12 | Stephmw | woglinde: please feel free to jump in and change things :) |
| 10:58.20 | jgm | ScaredyCat: yep so with an update for today's code that additional #endif shows up and needs to be removed before you can compile again |
| 10:58.29 | andylockran | ScaredyCat: free gta02s for the longest stayers on IRC |
| 10:58.44 | ScaredyCat | aloril: have I not shown you pictures of the gta09 umpc? |
| 10:58.52 | aloril | ScaredyCat: ah, I read that as "it has shipped or promised or .. not in as have it in hand" ;-) |
| 10:59.26 | SpeedEvil | I vote for free GTA02s for those with highest wiki edits. |
| 10:59.30 | ScaredyCat | jgm: see - I knew I wasn't mad |
| 10:59.39 | jgm | Yep |
| 11:00.19 | andylockran | uboot keeps failing, any ideas why? -originally on do_quilt, but now on do_compile |
| 11:00.20 | jgm | That said, it doesn't compile after that either. No rule to make u-boot.udfu |
| 11:00.37 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I have that too |
| 11:00.50 | ScaredyCat | just double checking I didn't cock up... |
| 11:00.57 | andylockran | jgm have you just found the solution to it- |
| 11:00.58 | ScaredyCat | .. rebuilding |
| 11:01.34 | jgm | Nope |
| 11:01.37 | ScaredyCat | this is the thing with building from trunk :) |
| 11:01.52 | Stephmw | hrw: you're welcome to edit that Java wiki topic too |
| 11:02.05 | andylockran | what version of glibc does it give you? |
| 11:02.20 | hrw | Stephmw: ? |
| 11:03.24 | ScaredyCat | I really should have done this in a vm, then I could just move it all to a better box... |
| 11:03.28 | andylockran | well that's dead then.. |
| 11:04.17 | andylockran | has anyone successfully build the mokomakefile since 1200GMT on the 10th July? |
| 11:04.34 | andylockran | i mean 9th ... |
| 11:06.30 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0CB50.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:06.53 | andylockran | ScaredyCat: at what stage does yours fail? |
| 11:07.04 | ScaredyCat | same as jpm |
| 11:07.20 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.53.56) |
| 11:07.22 | aloril | has anybody used GPRS with Neo1973 yet? |
| 11:07.37 | woglinde | aloril hm |
| 11:07.41 | hrw | aloril: pavelm long time ago |
| 11:07.49 | woglinde | hrw ah I wasnt sure |
| 11:08.00 | woglinde | that it was pavel |
| 11:08.01 | aloril | hrw: OK, thanks, either missed it or forgot it |
| 11:09.24 | aloril | found it: 2007-06-01 15:46:05 <pavelm> lrak: It can make calls, but gprs is very unreliable. |
| 11:11.30 | aloril | and: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GPRS |
| 11:12.18 | *** join/#openmoko bitplane (n=Gaz@86.158.81.66) |
| 11:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-114-114.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:13.02 | aloril | (and this too: 2007-03-19 14:38:37 <pavelm> ...I got gprs to work on openmoko.. it is now in wiki ("Manually using GPRS". ) |
| 11:15.11 | aloril | xkr47: hehe: <xkr47> neo is like buying your soul back from the devil.. you lose the "you can have anything" deal but you are free |
| 11:15.23 | woglinde | lol |
| 11:15.43 | blindcoder | hehe |
| 11:15.51 | blindcoder | sure I can have anything |
| 11:15.55 | blindcoder | just need to create it first ;) |
| 11:16.15 | Elrond | blindcoder - Exactly... |
| 11:16.19 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.53.56) |
| 11:17.02 | blindcoder | which is basically how I used to play 'clonk', 'settlers' and 'colonisation'. Play alone, just for the sake of building stuff and watching it work :) |
| 11:17.12 | bitplane | any tutorials for compiling apps for the openmoko emulator in windows? |
| 11:17.12 | aloril | bitplane: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:17.19 | Elrond | And it looks like the project gets a lot of publicity... Yesterday I was asked by a friend about what I would do in here. ;o) |
| 11:17.45 | blindcoder | Elrond: meh, I've already met two people here I know from other channels/networks |
| 11:18.03 | blindcoder | I swear, it's worse than the plague |
| 11:18.20 | Elrond | blindcoder - Well, they found my nick on some subversion repos. And asked me about it. ;) |
| 11:18.27 | blindcoder | hehe |
| 11:18.38 | woglinde | elrond *g* |
| 11:18.51 | blindcoder | Elrond: just like going to the local geekfest and suddenly having someone say: Hey, you're blindcoder? From $FOOPROJECT? |
| 11:18.57 | blindcoder | I swear, it scares the hell out of me every time |
| 11:19.05 | aloril | hehe, strong opinions: http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/07/09/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch/ |
| 11:19.14 | CM | Lots of known developers in here |
| 11:19.17 | aloril | (seen earlier in this channel already) |
| 11:19.37 | hrw | aloril: last sentence is nice |
| 11:19.45 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A3615B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:20.10 | Elrond | blindcoder - Yeah, exactly. My sedond question was: "How did you stumble across _that_ repos?" ;-) |
| 11:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko _leo__`` (n=user@r190-64-49-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 11:20.45 | Fatal | aloril: that's just sad (all the fanboy comments) |
| 11:24.22 | aloril | so... rephrasing: anybody got reliable GPRS connection? (say more than 1h and more than 1MB transmittetd) |
| 11:24.32 | blindcoder | okay, what the fuck is the greenphone? |
| 11:24.36 | blindcoder | this is the first I ever heard about it |
| 11:25.01 | Stephmw | hrw: I've added a Java section to the wiki, you'd expressed an interest in the past ;) |
| 11:25.02 | Fatal | a qtopia based phone, been around for over a year iirc |
| 11:25.08 | Stephmw | aye |
| 11:25.16 | aloril | its most open phone after Neo1973 |
| 11:25.19 | Stephmw | it was on slashdot and linuxdevices a few times |
| 11:25.30 | aloril | some parts of it are closed, see http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphonesdk |
| 11:25.30 | *** join/#openmoko fralef (n=fralef@142.92.41.245) |
| 11:26.00 | aloril | also at bootup it says reportedly something like "this is not a phone", ie. its meant as developers device, not as mass market device |
| 11:26.17 | CM | Expensive thing too, as you can see in the comments |
| 11:26.29 | aloril | while Neo1973 GTA02 is meant as mass market device (actually originally GTA01B* was meant to be mass market device too) |
| 11:26.42 | mdt | trolltech builds that device for marketing purpose. in fact they want to sell their embedded qt, called qtopia |
| 11:27.02 | aloril | can you make answering machine inside Greenphone for example? |
| 11:27.44 | aloril | (ie.. play message to caller and record message from him/her) |
| 11:27.45 | mdt | aloril you mean automatically answer calls, play audio and record? |
| 11:27.50 | blindcoder | I see |
| 11:27.57 | mdt | yes, i think you can do so. |
| 11:28.00 | aloril | that can be done in Neo1973 |
| 11:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 11:28.51 | mdt | problem with the greenphone is the hardware which is in no way documented by trolltech. they are interested in qtopia application developers only. |
| 11:29.16 | mdt | if qtopia does not support your idea you are probably lost |
| 11:30.08 | mdt | trolltech wants to sell qtopia to phone vendors. motorola already used qtopia on a phone |
| 11:30.25 | SpeedEvil | qtopia is used on several million devices |
| 11:30.30 | SpeedEvil | 15 models of phone. |
| 11:30.32 | aloril | anyway, one of main reasons for me is that its Qtopia, not X11 |
| 11:30.33 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 11:30.43 | Elrond | qtopia could be ported to the neo, right? |
| 11:30.56 | mdt | aloril, what do you mean? |
| 11:31.16 | mdt | better port openmoko to greenphone ;) |
| 11:31.29 | Elrond | ... of course not the "community edition", because it doesn't have source for the base libraries. |
| 11:31.34 | mdt | the hardware isn't that bad |
| 11:31.38 | aloril | mdt: most Linux GUI apps need porting, not just recompile (and some adjustments for small screen size/touch screen input) |
| 11:31.56 | Elrond | Anyway, I'm off for 1.7 hours, $work |
| 11:32.08 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@Mb846.m.pppool.de) |
| 11:32.16 | mdt | qoptia is a plain port of qt to small-devices. |
| 11:32.27 | mdt | i agree with you. i don't like X/gtl either |
| 11:32.32 | mdt | gtl->gtk |
| 11:32.41 | mdt | but qt isn't a better aproach |
| 11:32.43 | bitplane | is there gl support at all? |
| 11:32.55 | aloril | mdt: doesn't Qtopia bang framebuffer directly instead of using X11? |
| 11:33.08 | mdt | yes, but with a lot of overhead. |
| 11:33.23 | aloril | so any X11 app would need to be ported ... |
| 11:33.33 | mdt | if you like you can throw away x11 under gtk and use directfb. this way you have the same as qtopia |
| 11:33.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[Java]] [[Group_Order]] [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[Steampunk]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware/it]] [[S3C2410_Steppingstone]] [[S3C2410_Steppingstone/it]] [[User:Milo]] [[User:Milo/en]] and other changes |
| 11:34.07 | mdt | aloril, i dont think a simple port of a linux app to a phone will be usable |
| 11:34.31 | blindcoder | depends on the app |
| 11:34.33 | aloril | mdt: I *want* X11 ;-) |
| 11:34.45 | ewon | an awful lot of Linux apps also want X11 |
| 11:34.49 | blindcoder | I'm quite sure that gpsdrive will easily work |
| 11:35.04 | aloril | mdt: also can you install debian/ubuntu/fedora/etc.. on Greenphone? |
| 11:35.09 | mdt | aloril2, what for? |
| 11:35.12 | Fatal | I hope someone ports maemomapper <3 :) |
| 11:35.27 | mdt | aloril2, they habe ipkg on the greenphone but non-working. |
| 11:35.30 | jgm | Made a couple of hacks to the build but still can't get openmoko-devel-image up and running. Think that we'll need to wait a while for some of the additional commits to show up before it works |
| 11:35.57 | aloril | mdt: its not "what for", its "can you"? answer tells something about how open hardware is |
| 11:36.23 | blindcoder | well, you probably can't due to memore restriction |
| 11:36.36 | rschuste2 | regarding QT/Trolltech: I remember a guy running around at the OpenMoko talk at LinuxTag asking for people taking part in a lottery to win a greenphone ... |
| 11:36.40 | blindcoder | memory restrictions |
| 11:36.41 | mdt | aloril, :D you are right. i think you could put an x11 on it because it has a linux fb |
| 11:38.05 | aloril | mdt: about X11: in addition to huge potential app base, you can also display app running on phone at PC and other way around |
| 11:38.14 | mdt | aloril, but x11 is not the right question for openess. more interesting is the hardware (like gsm-chip, touch-screen, keyboard, vibrator, usb...) and the flashing process and the like |
| 11:38.26 | aloril | maybe even use PC GUI over GPRS using FreeNX |
| 11:38.54 | aloril | mdt: yes, that is about how open hardware is |
| 11:39.11 | aloril | mdt: so I see problems in both software and hardware side |
| 11:39.16 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:40.55 | mdt | aloril, for me the greenphone was the first working playground for implementing phone software from ground up with my ideas. nothing more. compared to the greenphone the neo is currently not deliverde ( :D ), has no camera and has no keypad. |
| 11:41.07 | ewon | who the hell wants a camera |
| 11:41.12 | andylockran | not i |
| 11:41.19 | andylockran | I have a camera for that :p |
| 11:41.21 | mdt | and i dont need x11 |
| 11:41.23 | Stephmw | the _option_ of a camera would be useful |
| 11:41.29 | ewon | most of us are pros, and having a camera on the moko would mean we couldn't take it to work |
| 11:41.42 | mdt | dont get lost in what you or customers want or don't want... |
| 11:41.48 | andylockran | plus - i'm sure you can get a usb camera if you're desperate |
| 11:41.53 | aloril | and I can always get bluetooth keyboard ;-) |
| 11:41.56 | andylockran | in the same way the t68i had that clip-on camera |
| 11:42.00 | Stephmw | andylockran: no, you can't. usb is unpowered |
| 11:42.04 | SpeedEvil | Camera, designed properly can be pulled. |
| 11:42.11 | Ycros | I would want a camera |
| 11:42.12 | andylockran | you can get externally powerer cameras.. |
| 11:42.13 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: yehs you can - power wedge |
| 11:42.29 | andylockran | or a big battery in a rucksack... |
| 11:42.32 | mdt | :D wow the camer question seems to be important to you ;) |
| 11:42.38 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore_ (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:42.50 | SpeedEvil | Cameras are not only for taking pictures to show people. |
| 11:42.52 | andylockran | i'd rather have a rfid sensor.. |
| 11:42.59 | aloril | touch screen is important for me |
| 11:43.08 | SpeedEvil | andylockran: there are dozens of different standards. |
| 11:43.26 | Stephmw | ~v12 |
| 11:43.35 | apt | v12 is probably the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ |
| 11:43.35 | SpeedEvil | Cameras are also useful for capturing data. |
| 11:43.46 | Stephmw | ~botsnack |
| 11:43.46 | apt | thanks, Stephmw |
| 11:43.57 | SpeedEvil | Barcodes, price-labels, stuff you're thinking of buying, ... |
| 11:44.01 | andylockran | SpeedEvil: yeah, i understand the standards thing.. I guess I'll just have to get whatever standard my local supermarket use |
| 11:44.03 | SpeedEvil | All is just fine at VGA |
| 11:44.10 | andylockran | SpeedEvil: true.. |
| 11:44.34 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: currently have an incident lightmeter idea in the works ;) |
| 11:44.46 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: not at all accurate, but ok for a quick histogram |
| 11:45.19 | rschuste2 | a camera would also be nice for taking pictures of street names while you are mapping for openstreetmap ... |
| 11:45.30 | SpeedEvil | that too. |
| 11:45.37 | blindcoder | Stephmw: I'm happy with a v2 in a 264 kg two-wheel vehicle :D |
| 11:45.44 | SpeedEvil | I found it really handy when shopping for building materials. |
| 11:45.48 | andylockran | how many people plan on mapping for openstreetmap - that's something I am _very_ interested in |
| 11:45.50 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.54.204) |
| 11:45.57 | SpeedEvil | Wander round large shed, taking pictures. |
| 11:46.03 | SpeedEvil | shed= DIY store |
| 11:46.11 | SpeedEvil | pictures include pricelabel and object |
| 11:46.26 | SpeedEvil | wander round competing shed, and directly compare. |
| 11:46.37 | rschuste2 | andylockran: OSM people will likely be interested in how good the GPS receiver is |
| 11:46.46 | blindcoder | apt: okay, now why is htere google ads for phone sex on that site? |
| 11:46.47 | apt | blindcoder: what are you talking about? |
| 11:47.01 | blindcoder | apt: http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ |
| 11:47.05 | andylockran | there's a conference about 5 minutes walk from me by openstreetmap in manchester this week or next |
| 11:47.15 | notserpe | aloril: I love the second response. |
| 11:47.16 | SpeedEvil | Even worked well when I couldn't find some mesh with a price label on it. Take pictures of label on shelf, read number off from phone at checkout. |
| 11:47.30 | Placid | i see there are a lot of people from the UK in here \o/ /o\ \o/ |
| 11:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 11:47.55 | SpeedEvil | Most US people are asleep now. |
| 11:47.58 | andylockran | this weekend.. |
| 11:48.08 | rschuste2 | andylockran: currently they prefer devices with some Sirf III chip (whatever that is) |
| 11:48.24 | Placid | SpeedEvil: indeed. thank god. :P |
| 11:48.27 | SpeedEvil | Hammerhead has the potential to be better than SiRF |
| 11:48.31 | SpeedEvil | AIUI |
| 11:48.41 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, with the current driverr, it's about the same. |
| 11:49.56 | ewon | impressive |
| 11:50.17 | SpeedEvil | I'm planning to do a bluetooth voice logger with GPS |
| 11:50.28 | SpeedEvil | which tags a gps track with voice notes |
| 11:51.03 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: I want to connect the gps output with a map and a video, all taken while riding my motorbike :D |
| 11:51.22 | SpeedEvil | That's harder. |
| 11:51.31 | SpeedEvil | To get quality video. |
| 11:51.35 | mdt | blindcoder, hopefully you bike has a usb-connector ;) |
| 11:52.00 | CM | andylockran: I'm interested in OSM as well. We need some easy to use app for it. :) |
| 11:52.00 | SpeedEvil | You really want to be able to read streetsigns. |
| 11:52.00 | blindcoder | mdt: nothing you can't do with a good soldering iron :D |
| 11:52.01 | mdt | :D |
| 11:52.03 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: that's what real cameras are for |
| 11:52.19 | *** join/#openmoko deeps (n=deepank@59.178.40.175) |
| 11:52.23 | SpeedEvil | blindcoder: it's not that simple. You really want multiple cameras to get a panorama. |
| 11:52.29 | andylockran | CM: yeah, I'd love to have the neo before the 26th july.. can't see that happening though.. going on a tour of europe so would be able to get some random mapping done.. |
| 11:52.30 | SpeedEvil | Or at least left/right/forward cameras. |
| 11:52.31 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: why? |
| 11:52.40 | SpeedEvil | To capture streetsigns to the left/right |
| 11:52.41 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: forward is enough for now |
| 11:52.58 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: simply because I only have access to one camera :) |
| 11:53.02 | andylockran | why can't google do a deal and let us have their maps... |
| 11:53.10 | blindcoder | it'd be easy to mount three cams on my bike |
| 11:53.19 | woglinde | andylockran hm I fear that before this the date no osm connector for openmoko will be available |
| 11:53.25 | CM | andylockran: Problem is that google doesn't own the maps |
| 11:53.33 | CM | They license them |
| 11:53.33 | blindcoder | mdt: I take it the battery will drain faster than a bathtub with GPS enabled? |
| 11:53.37 | andylockran | and to be honest, when the ordnance survey maps have been created using taxpayers money, I think it's only right we pay for reproduction costs only... |
| 11:53.47 | andylockran | so we should have a good UK mapping system.. |
| 11:54.03 | SpeedEvil | andylockran: NS has been spun out and is now financially self-supporting. |
| 11:54.13 | andylockran | NS? |
| 11:54.27 | Linux_Galore_ | got to give it to the yeanks they sure know how to put the most cholesterol in your mouth with every bite http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/baconator.jpg |
| 11:54.44 | *** join/#openmoko lusermgb (n=lusermgb@host217-37-238-14.in-addr.btopenworld.com) |
| 11:54.45 | Linux_Galore_ | yanks* |
| 11:55.05 | mdt | blindcoder, plus camer, plus cpu for compressing, plus storing the stuff... :) |
| 11:55.08 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 11:55.08 | SpeedEvil | OS |
| 11:55.10 | SpeedEvil | not NS |
| 11:55.24 | blindcoder | mdt: camera is external, not phone |
| 11:55.27 | andylockran | ok |
| 11:55.33 | blindcoder | mdt: I want quality pictures, thankyouverymuch |
| 11:55.41 | andylockran | you'd have thought i'd have worked that out by myself eh? |
| 11:55.42 | blindcoder | a phone with a camera built-in is of no use to me |
| 11:55.55 | lusermgb | having trouble getting to openmoko.com, does anyone know when it'll be up again? |
| 11:55.55 | aloril | lusermgb: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:56.02 | mdt | blindcoder, we are all different :D |
| 11:56.24 | blindcoder | mdt: yeah, tell that the security guys at $customers and $employee |
| 11:56.40 | SpeedEvil | blindcoder: A camera that can be pulled is quite possible. |
| 11:56.56 | mdt | shure, but what do they say to a gps? |
| 11:57.09 | SpeedEvil | Open the back, pop out the camera module. |
| 11:57.19 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: that'd be an option |
| 11:57.29 | blindcoder | mdt: what should they say to it? |
| 11:57.46 | SpeedEvil | I suspect most places don't worry about you getting coordinates to accurately lay in mortars for the first round, rather than you having to walk them onto target. |
| 11:57.47 | blindcoder | mdt: it's not like gps coordinates are company secrets |
| 11:58.12 | mdt | blindcoder, do you have to show your phone every day you come to your office? |
| 11:58.23 | blindcoder | mdt: yeah |
| 11:58.32 | SpeedEvil | mdt: in some companies, cam phone = fired. |
| 11:58.37 | aloril | does Greenphone have separate GSM modem like Neo1973 or is it in same 'space'? it does look like Greenphone does have touch screen though |
| 11:58.40 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 11:58.47 | blindcoder | mdt: they have put up compartments at the security office for mobile phones to deposit in |
| 11:58.54 | *** join/#openmoko pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) |
| 11:58.55 | mdt | aloril, no they use a broadcom 2121 |
| 11:59.20 | SpeedEvil | mdt: GSM |
| 11:59.32 | mdt | aloril, they use ts & keypad |
| 11:59.42 | mdt | SpeedEvil, ? |
| 11:59.43 | aloril | mdt: ie.. GSM runs under same OS than applications? |
| 11:59.45 | notserpe | blindcoder: if they're that concerned over a camera they should be concerned with you pod-like slurping with the usb and a big microsd card in the phone too. |
| 11:59.53 | SpeedEvil | err - ignore me. |
| 11:59.57 | mdt | aloril, no. same setup as neo |
| 12:00.26 | blindcoder | notserpe: with usb sticks they can search you and find them when leaving company ground |
| 12:00.29 | mdt | aloril, arm-cpu <-> gsm-module uses serial communication, gsm0707 & gsm0710 |
| 12:00.31 | SpeedEvil | aloril: that would actually be illegal to sell in the UK - once the first person misused the phone. |
| 12:00.43 | blindcoder | notserpe: with my phone, I make a photo of the latest car design, send it to another phone and delete the pic again |
| 12:00.49 | blindcoder | notserpe: no evidence on leaving company grounds |
| 12:01.09 | CM | blindcoder: You work with cars? |
| 12:01.15 | blindcoder | CM: my customers do |
| 12:01.22 | mdt | blindcoder, sad that companies don't trust their empoyies... |
| 12:01.35 | aloril | SpeedEvil: not with closed bits for phone ;-) (this seems to claims so: http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphonesdk ) |
| 12:01.35 | SpeedEvil | When you can get rich off one pic... |
| 12:02.00 | SpeedEvil | aloril: I mean with unified GSM and application processor with open-source |
| 12:02.05 | blindcoder | CM: I've been working at the Audi factory/technical development facilities |
| 12:02.18 | _diego__ | is www.openmoko.com crashed / slashdotted? |
| 12:02.19 | blindcoder | CM: concept cars there in storage |
| 12:02.28 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, but I was assuming greenphone is only partially open-source |
| 12:02.43 | blindcoder | CM: ccars driving around with big blankets over them to prevent overhead photograhy by airplanes and stuff |
| 12:02.44 | CM | blindcoder: Cool. I work with forecast and planning systems |
| 12:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko webjames_ (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:02.49 | blindcoder | CM: they _are_ quite paranoid there |
| 12:03.04 | woglinde | greenphone only kernelmodules and a few apps are closed |
| 12:03.21 | CM | blindcoder: For sure. I have the plans up to 2016 of all volvo cars ;) |
| 12:03.41 | blindcoder | CM: hehe, I see you feel my pain :) |
| 12:03.55 | CM | Oh yes.. ;) |
| 12:04.16 | mdt | woglinde, and a little bit more. they don't tell you, what they did to get all the gpl software up & running. |
| 12:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@162-117-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 12:04.39 | notserpe | so I guess openmoko and hardware designs need to focus on anti-corp-espionage type features? I throw my 2 cents towards even a low megapix camera is useful. |
| 12:04.40 | woglinde | mdt???? |
| 12:04.57 | aloril | why not this: Trolltech makes deal with FIC for them to produce greencased Neo1973's, then Trolltech installs Qtopia on them and sell them? |
| 12:05.19 | mdt | has anybody ever seen qtopia and worked with it? |
| 12:05.26 | woglinde | mdt asked ljp |
| 12:05.37 | blindcoder | notserpe: I guess some car magazines would pay a small fortune even for low-res pics of new car models |
| 12:05.52 | blindcoder | notserpe: that's why I hope that cams will remain optional |
| 12:05.53 | mdt | woglinde, they have done a lot of work to build their flash image. this process is closed. |
| 12:05.56 | *** join/#openmoko nodge (n=deba0x80@62.206.49.86) |
| 12:06.01 | xkr47 | \o/ |
| 12:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko www2 (n=jean_pau@cd4400448.cable.wanadoo.nl) |
| 12:06.26 | *** part/#openmoko banux (n=banux@hraesvelg.helheim.net) |
| 12:06.27 | woglinde | mdt did you try yourself? |
| 12:06.35 | mdt | woglinde, no, i didn't ment to search someone. i have some expirience with it. i asked because you are so eager to see it on the neu |
| 12:06.40 | mdt | neu -> neo |
| 12:06.48 | mdt | woglinde, yes, i did alot |
| 12:06.53 | woglinde | hm did I? |
| 12:07.10 | woglinde | I only said greephone isnt thta bad everybody makes it |
| 12:07.40 | hrw | I had greenphone in hands |
| 12:08.03 | hrw | not so bad design, but I do not like qtopia look |
| 12:08.12 | woglinde | hrw I like it |
| 12:08.32 | mdt | woglinde, no, the hardware is great, i just don't like the 'fat toolkit' aproach |
| 12:08.44 | woglinde | fat?? |
| 12:08.56 | mdt | woglinde, i don't like it in qtopia, i don't like it in openmoko |
| 12:09.14 | woglinde | mdt than provide a better approach |
| 12:09.18 | hrw | mdt: you prefer raw curses |
| 12:09.44 | mdt | woglinde, if you startup a app with qtopia on the greenpone (wich has 312MHz instead of 266of the neo) it takes more than a second to even show the wait cursor |
| 12:09.55 | mdt | hrw, no, shure not |
| 12:10.02 | mdt | woglinde, i am about to do so ;) |
| 12:10.04 | blindcoder | curses banzai! \o/ |
| 12:10.28 | mdt | woglinde, that's the cause i instantly ordered a neo yesterday |
| 12:10.34 | blindcoder | great for apps to run on ssh'd-into servers :) |
| 12:11.06 | Moo^^ | mdt: is the starting lag caused by library overhead? |
| 12:11.19 | SpeedEvil | aloril: yeah - it's possible even with fully open-source, if you have adequate hardware controls. Signed kernel and core firmware updates only. |
| 12:11.31 | mdt | moo, i don't know exaclty. |
| 12:11.33 | Moo^^ | mdt: I once was listeting to N770 developer giving a session about how they had optimized GTK app launch times |
| 12:11.39 | Viko | How many sales by now? |
| 12:11.42 | SpeedEvil | aloril: all phone apps run as the user, and you rely on normal unix security. |
| 12:12.07 | SpeedEvil | Viko: It's probable that they have sold out the initial batch. |
| 12:12.09 | mdt | moo, what they do is they start up a so called quicklauuncher. this process idles around waiting |
| 12:12.12 | CM | blindcoder: I wonder what a leaked image would cost you (or me). Probably more.. |
| 12:12.16 | SpeedEvil | Viko: Or are about to. |
| 12:12.32 | mdt | moo, if you start a app, the quicklauncher loads a shared lib with that code |
| 12:12.41 | *** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@p57BB08A0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:12.48 | barmeier | hi |
| 12:12.50 | mdt | moo, this is to prevent the load&bind time of the fat c++ libs |
| 12:12.57 | mdt | moo, anyway it is to slow |
| 12:13.15 | arw | hi barmeier |
| 12:13.22 | blindcoder | CM: probably a job and a few job opportunities, at least |
| 12:13.43 | blindcoder | CM: but great to do if you get enough money to live off of interest |
| 12:14.32 | CM | blindcoder: Not worth it for me anyway |
| 12:15.40 | mdt | moo, what did the developer tell about startup optimization? |
| 12:15.40 | SpeedEvil | For some. A) be honest B) Be dishonest, and obtain enough money to live the rest of your life without working. Is a hard choice. |
| 12:15.41 | Viko | SpeedEvil, that was quick. :) I expected max 500 sales the first day. |
| 12:15.52 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: B! B! B! B! |
| 12:15.58 | SpeedEvil | Viko: numbers are not confirmed - they are estimated. |
| 12:16.13 | aloril | why so negative about compiling inside Neo1973? |
| 12:16.20 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, yes, that's why the As work for the Bs ;) |
| 12:16.25 | SpeedEvil | aloril: it is rather slow. |
| 12:16.32 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 12:16.42 | SpeedEvil | We need some nice person to do a benchmark. |
| 12:16.52 | blindcoder | mmazur: words of wisdom, my lad. *nods sagely* |
| 12:17.08 | aloril | Neo1973 is big step up from that ;-) |
| 12:17.12 | SpeedEvil | Compile bash or something moderately reasonable-sized in Neo and desktop |
| 12:17.17 | mdt | is python ported to the neo? |
| 12:17.31 | SpeedEvil | Port is a hard word. |
| 12:17.33 | hrw | mdt: yes |
| 12:17.38 | SpeedEvil | Most linux stuff just runs. |
| 12:17.40 | mdt | nice... :D |
| 12:17.57 | mdt | python has some issues when crosscompiling |
| 12:17.59 | SpeedEvil | It may not work on a 640*480 touchscreen, but that's a seperate issue. |
| 12:18.02 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.207.150) |
| 12:18.13 | ScaredyCat | http://mingle2.com/cadaver-calculator |
| 12:18.21 | ScaredyCat | oops |
| 12:18.32 | pgas | SpeedEvil: compiling a big C++ app is really slow, compiling C not so (on another pda platform but still) |
| 12:18.40 | pgas | hrw: congrat |
| 12:18.49 | hrw | hi pgas |
| 12:18.54 | pgas | heya |
| 12:19.06 | hrw | mdt: we have python in OpenEmbedded since OE started |
| 12:19.15 | pgas | python + gtk = slow startup though :( |
| 12:19.21 | andylockran | python has issues? |
| 12:19.28 | aloril | SpeedEvil: Makefiles have been invented, no need to do full compile every time ;-) |
| 12:19.55 | blindcoder | just took 30 minutes for a full cycle :) |
| 12:20.20 | blindcoder | and KDE 2.something startup around an 15 minutes |
| 12:20.34 | blindcoder | kde 3.something was at over an hour then |
| 12:20.35 | andylockran | Linux_Galore_: fantastic! |
| 12:20.49 | andylockran | oops.. that was meant to be blindcoder .. missed the b |
| 12:21.06 | mdt | andylockran, yes, they use the compiled executables to do something. not a great idea when cross compiling |
| 12:21.21 | SpeedEvil | pgas: 128M RAM will help with that though. |
| 12:21.23 | *** join/#openmoko aric (n=aric@75.108.189.173) |
| 12:21.38 | SpeedEvil | pgas: and relatively fast swapping to SD too. |
| 12:21.53 | hrw | mdt: ever tried to build those tools with native compiler? |
| 12:22.32 | SpeedEvil | (the neo I suspect is only 2-6 times slower than my current laptop) |
| 12:22.54 | mdt | hrw, on the device... ? |
| 12:22.56 | CM | Installing gentoo from scratch on a 300MHz p2 laptop took about a week. |
| 12:23.23 | sixfeet | moin all |
| 12:23.36 | sixfeet | takes a looong time to get this phone |
| 12:24.09 | sixfeet | i hope its avaliable before my old brake down *fg* |
| 12:24.12 | pgas | SpeedEvil: hmm seems a workaround has been written for the olpc http://blogs.gnome.org/johan/2007/01/18/introducing-python-launcher/ |
| 12:24.35 | pgas | hmm maybe it exists for maemo |
| 12:24.39 | aloril | would need USB disk to do self compile in Neo1973 and it would take possibly week or month |
| 12:25.00 | hrw | mdt: on host you crosscompile XYZ. during build it builds ZXC tool to generate source from file. so to build ZXC you use host compiler and for rest you use crosscompiler |
| 12:25.03 | hrw | mdt: easy |
| 12:25.30 | pgas | aloril: an nfs drive |
| 12:25.37 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tiger_zs@222.66.81.98) |
| 12:25.37 | mdt | hrw, shure, but python does different |
| 12:25.47 | mdt | hrw, before i patched it ;) |
| 12:25.53 | blindcoder | hrw: rock linux does something like this for cross compiles. you can use a cross-compiler on a power-horse-machine and all other programs run natively |
| 12:25.58 | aloril | pgas: in that case you could as well just compile on PC ;-) |
| 12:26.09 | jgm | hrw: there are a few bugs in SVN that means that we can't compile a development image, please could you take a look? |
| 12:26.22 | aloril | pgas: I was thinking stack of batteries and somewhere in wild with only GPRS access ;-) |
| 12:26.35 | blindcoder | hrw: this is done transparently by using a binfmt_misc handler |
| 12:26.48 | aloril | would still make more sense to transmit new image over GPRS though ;-) |
| 12:26.48 | hrw | blindcoder: I am doing crosscompilations for over 3 years |
| 12:27.00 | blindcoder | hrw: your point? |
| 12:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 12:27.07 | hrw | blindcoder: and without binfmt_misc stuff |
| 12:27.11 | aric | Since openmoko build is broken right now on uboot, can anyone tell me how to compile only the kernel? |
| 12:27.11 | aloril | aric: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:27.38 | jgm | hrw: or should we be logging them somewhere? |
| 12:27.48 | blindcoder | hrw: sorry for saying something about an area that you are seeming the uber-expert |
| 12:27.49 | hrw | jgm: uboot? |
| 12:27.55 | blindcoder | I will now go hide in my cave |
| 12:28.03 | hrw | blindcoder: sorry - I did not wanted to sound like that |
| 12:28.31 | jgm | Yep there's a missing target u-boot.udfu |
| 12:28.52 | jgm | Also one too many #endif s in usbdcore.h (can't remember the exact location) |
| 12:28.54 | blindcoder | hrw: it's okay, it's always the problem with text-only communication. guess I'm also a bit wobbly today :) |
| 12:29.17 | jgm | And think there are a few other bits but that is as far as I got |
| 12:29.45 | andylockran | shall I just wait for an updated makefile? |
| 12:30.18 | CM | blindcoder: Got the developent env set up yet? |
| 12:30.21 | ScaredyCat | the last line :) |
| 12:30.22 | hrw | jgm: edit uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb and change SRC_URI to SRC_URI = "git://www.denx.de/git/u-boot.git/;protocol=git;tag=c0c292b2852a12e9d93e99b3aaf5b0dac5f36fdc \ |
| 12:30.24 | ScaredyCat | 680 |
| 12:30.35 | rschuste2 | the uboot problem is a result of the patches not being applied correctly: http://pastebin.com/m5db6ba56 |
| 12:30.44 | blindcoder | CM: it's building |
| 12:30.49 | rschuste2 | question is what SRCDATE is supposed to work? |
| 12:31.01 | blindcoder | CM: had to install git, diffstat and texi2html in addition to monotone and boost yet |
| 12:31.01 | woglinde | rschuste2 guess 3 times |
| 12:31.02 | hrw | jgm: it is workaround so do not flash resulting uboot rather |
| 12:31.16 | blindcoder | CM: woglinde has been a great help with that so far |
| 12:31.32 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@X1ec4.x.pppool.de) |
| 12:31.36 | CM | blindcoder: Good there's a lot of helpful people around :) |
| 12:31.39 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@client-81-107-216-178.glfd.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 12:31.54 | blindcoder | CM: yeah, it's almost unreal for IRC :-) |
| 12:32.04 | woglinde | blindcoder huh? |
| 12:32.13 | woglinde | why unreal? |
| 12:32.46 | blindcoder | woglinde: more often than not all I've recently got on various topics is the 'it's on google, search for it there' reply |
| 12:32.56 | blindcoder | with recently being the last 2 years |
| 12:33.00 | andylockran | hrw: which uboot file? |
| 12:33.02 | *** part/#openmoko pgas (n=user@pdpc/supporter/active/pgas) |
| 12:33.12 | hrw | andylockran: oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb |
| 12:33.17 | andylockran | hrw: ts |
| 12:35.03 | rschuste2 | thanks for the hint. mentioned the workaround here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:MokoMakefile#U-Boot_compilation_fails |
| 12:35.44 | andylockran | hrw: sorry - do i have to clear the cache? |
| 12:35.48 | hrw | no |
| 12:35.54 | andylockran | hrw: it's ok.. I'll look at the wiki |
| 12:38.40 | aric | Since openmoko build is broken right now on uboot, can anyone tell me how to compile only the kernel? |
| 12:38.41 | notserpe | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:39.02 | andylockran | aric: have a look at the wiki three up |
| 12:39.24 | aric | anylockran: I did look at the wiki. I'm already at git 1.5. |
| 12:39.51 | aloril | about Python and OpenMoko: from less than 24h ago: <zecke> procto: well openmoko-bindings has 100% coverage of openmokoui, ~80% of gsmd, and a pending patch to mokojournal to be bindable |
| 12:40.01 | andylockran | ubuoot still killing it then? |
| 12:40.16 | jgm | Hmm... adding the tag gives me a bitbake error (list index out of range) |
| 12:40.27 | blindcoder | notserpe: what now, query or public? :-) |
| 12:40.34 | aloril | and: zecke> procto: most of the C examples for openmoko have python examples as well, and there is an example stylus app written in python using the bindings |
| 12:42.21 | notserpe | blindcoder: hmm? |
| 12:42.47 | blindcoder | notserpe: just that you quoted me half in a query and half here |
| 12:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@wlan-client-357.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 12:42.54 | rwhitby | morning |
| 12:42.57 | notserpe | blindcoder: my bad paste ;-) |
| 12:43.01 | blindcoder | :) |
| 12:43.25 | aric | andylockran: I tried the other workaround that was posted recently, and uboot will still not compile. |
| 12:43.49 | andylockran | aric: yeah, I'm getting nowhere with it either |
| 12:43.54 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@c-76-30-222-129.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 12:43.59 | aric | anylockran: But that is really beside the point. Why does the package linux-gta01 have a dependency on uboot anyway? |
| 12:44.14 | aric | andylockran: sorry, I keep spelling your name wrong. :-) |
| 12:44.17 | hrw | aric: because it need mkimage from uboot to generate kernel |
| 12:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@X1ec4.x.pppool.de) |
| 12:44.57 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mib (n=rob_w@X1ec4.x.pppool.de) |
| 12:45.18 | aric | hrw: That is broken, then. The build of the kernel should be completely independent of making an image of the kernel for uboot. |
| 12:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfUrl (n=chatzill@c-75-71-41-233.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 12:45.38 | ScaredyCat | .. but then it begs the question .. why to : "Currently OpenMoko always uses the latest U-Boot sources." |
| 12:45.59 | rschuste2 | aric: that one explains the uboot and linux kernel intermixing quite well: http://www.amazon.com/Embedded-Linux-Primer-Real-World-Development/dp/0131679848 |
| 12:46.00 | hrw | aric: then tell it to mainline kernel devs why 'make uImage' req mkimage? |
| 12:46.07 | ScaredyCat | to which it then applies patches... |
| 12:46.56 | aric | hrw: I compile kernels for ARM based devices all the time, and there is no requirement for mkimage. |
| 12:47.22 | *** join/#openmoko ravan_ (n=ravan@mail.limespot.co.in) |
| 12:47.29 | aloril | this channel quite high: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode&query=&num=10 |
| 12:47.37 | hrw | aric: uimage or (b)zimage? |
| 12:47.50 | aric | hrw: zImage |
| 12:48.05 | hrw | aric: zImage does not need mkimage |
| 12:48.19 | hrw | uImage needs it as there are some stuff for uboot written in header |
| 12:48.43 | aric | hrw: OK. But really, I'm getting off track. How can I get bitbake to make a zImage without a dependency on uboot? |
| 12:48.50 | rwhitby | edit the recipe |
| 12:49.03 | xkr47 | add two eggs and some pepper |
| 12:49.11 | *** part/#openmoko nodge (n=deba0x80@62.206.49.86) |
| 12:49.18 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 12:49.23 | blindcoder | *snrk* |
| 12:49.24 | aloril | andylockran: can't reply with google reply when problem is too recent for google ;-) |
| 12:50.04 | CM | aloril: Heh, I'm surprised #haskell is up there too |
| 12:52.36 | andylockran | aric: sorry.. |
| 12:52.49 | andylockran | aloril: what do you mean google reply? |
| 12:53.34 | aloril | andylockran: I mean that it doesn't make sense to say to you "google for your problem" when google most likely would not find any page about your problem ;-) |
| 12:54.00 | andylockran | true yeah |
| 12:54.26 | aric | rwhitby: Thanks for the suggestion. I found the .bb file and took out uboot. Compiling now. |
| 12:54.38 | ScaredyCat | is anyone running qemu with gcc 4.x ? |
| 12:55.34 | ScaredyCat | just wondered what the problems were supposed to be... |
| 12:56.04 | CM | ScaredyCat: It's not working |
| 12:56.49 | CM | ScaredyCat: I tried a lot, on 64 bit gcc-4.1.2. Never got it working so I have 3.4.6 and 4.1.2 at the same time now |
| 12:57.24 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I was just wondering if I could be arsed to install gcc 3.x |
| 12:57.36 | ScaredyCat | if I hacve to I gues I will... |
| 12:57.52 | blindcoder | ScaredyCat: I can second CM here |
| 12:57.58 | CM | It really doesn't work with 4.x |
| 12:58.00 | andylockran | third CM |
| 12:58.13 | blindcoder | ScaredyCat: we go to great lengths to ensure qemu is compiled with gcc 3.x instead of anything else |
| 12:58.45 | CM | blindcoder: You can get it to compile with gcc-4, but it won't run.. :P |
| 12:58.58 | ScaredyCat | I know, but I can disable the check... |
| 12:58.59 | *** join/#openmoko florian_ (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 12:59.00 | blindcoder | CM: yeah |
| 12:59.14 | *** join/#openmoko florian__ (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 13:00.36 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.153.196.227) |
| 13:00.59 | blindcoder | CM: compilers and optimisations are fun |
| 13:01.07 | blindcoder | CM: and get you into all sorts of trouble :) |
| 13:01.18 | CM | blindcoder: Hehe.. I've noticed |
| 13:01.40 | blindcoder | CM: compiling firefox with gcc3.x and pentium4 optimisations throws interesting assembler errors |
| 13:01.45 | blindcoder | s/firefox/mozilla/ |
| 13:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.117.84) |
| 13:03.27 | jeddy3 | does anyone have info on number of orders/tickets sold? *curious* |
| 13:03.57 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@122-124-71-248.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 13:04.21 | CM | jeddy3: Last on the P1 wiki page is #2686, but that was quite a while ago |
| 13:04.50 | CM | LaF0rge: Congratulations getting the store up :) |
| 13:04.56 | andylockran | I wish I'd waited 100 orders... |
| 13:05.03 | Rince | hoi LaF0rge, I hope you hvae a little fun here ;) |
| 13:05.05 | andylockran | I'm 1873... |
| 13:05.29 | CM | andylockran: Heh, #1973 must get something extra ;) |
| 13:05.54 | andylockran | CM: wouldn't that be nice |
| 13:06.05 | blindcoder | hehe, half a dollar rebate for P2 :D |
| 13:06.09 | bedboi | what web browser is shipped with openmoko? |
| 13:06.13 | jeddy3 | CM, my bad, didn't mean tickets....but rather processed orders |
| 13:06.31 | jeddy3 | bedboi, none yet |
| 13:07.03 | CM | jeddy3: Nothing more than the automatic reply that the order is registered, afaik |
| 13:09.00 | jeddy3 | CM, damn...yesterday people (for example roh) had figures on sold orders...for example 300/~1000 |
| 13:09.33 | CM | Haven't seen roh today, nor anyone from OpenMoko |
| 13:10.12 | SpeedEvil | IIRC he was here earlier. |
| 13:10.44 | SpeedEvil | jeddy3: these were mostly guesses from the ticket numbers produced when orders are made. |
| 13:11.02 | jeddy3 | SpeedEvil, oh ok |
| 13:11.39 | CM | Anyone ordered a Neo lately? What's the last order nr? |
| 13:11.55 | woglinde | 23xx I think |
| 13:12.07 | SpeedEvil | There can be both errors in the low direction due to spam email to the ticket generator, or |
| 13:12.19 | SpeedEvil | in the high direction by people ordering >1 phone |
| 13:13.38 | jeddy3 | obviously it's to high, right?...2300 tickets |
| 13:13.55 | jeddy3 | or where did orders start? |
| 13:14.10 | woglinde | 18xx |
| 13:14.12 | woglinde | or so |
| 13:14.15 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:14.18 | CM | jeddy3: 1820 was the first |
| 13:14.26 | *** part/#openmoko ^_leo_^ (n=user@r190-64-49-27.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 13:14.29 | jeddy3 | CM ah, right |
| 13:14.48 | mjr | 1820 or so |
| 13:14.48 | mjr | (yes, I'm laggy, gprs) |
| 13:15.35 | CM | Someone posted #2686 on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 13:15.58 | jouston | hello everyone |
| 13:16.53 | CM | And I'm guessing at least 70% of the tickets are orders, at least that was the ratio yesterday that roh stated (250/350) |
| 13:17.10 | CM | So maybe 600-800 orders |
| 13:17.18 | jeddy3 | heh, nive |
| 13:17.24 | jeddy3 | s/nive/nice |
| 13:17.42 | jouston | I guess almost 600 orders now. |
| 13:17.58 | kinlo | how many have been produced? |
| 13:18.01 | blindcoder | so with shipment and all, it'll be at probably 500.000 $ income at the thousandth device. nice sum to leave to the caimans with ;) |
| 13:18.36 | Kero | 70% of the tickets are orders? why not 100% ? |
| 13:18.54 | DukeOfUrl | is there any new information about the shipping dates? |
| 13:18.55 | jouston | Kero: People will ask what colors and that kind of stuff. |
| 13:19.05 | jeddy3 | that has to count as fairly much...wonder what the expected rate was... |
| 13:19.09 | woglinde | duek 16.7? |
| 13:19.42 | jeddy3 | Kero, every mail to the system generates a ticket |
| 13:21.08 | jeddy3 | (except those already assigned with tickets) |
| 13:21.13 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 13:21.44 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0FCCC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:21.58 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L3bbd.l.pppool.de) |
| 13:32.19 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 13:33.38 | Kero | jeddy3: ah! hence the specifc subject on reply :) some orders are >1 Neo, wonder how much that counterbalances... |
| 13:34.41 | blindcoder | judging from the spam in _my_ inbox, I'd say about 0.6 orders per ticket |
| 13:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:34.54 | blindcoder | 0.6 phones per ticket |
| 13:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 13:35.33 | aloril | (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: A lovely respond to Lorn Potter of Trolltech http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/lovely-respond-to-lorn-potter-of.html |
| 13:35.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:C7]] [[Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware/it]] [[Talk:MokoMakefile]] [[Neo1973_AUX_button/it]] [[FAQ/it]] [[Neo1973_AUX_button]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Neo1973_Power_button]] [[Neo1973_Power_button/it]] and other changes |
| 13:37.39 | *** part/#openmoko aric (n=aric@75.108.189.173) |
| 13:37.57 | *** join/#openmoko taneli (n=taneli@kivilampi-18.pc.hiit.fi) |
| 13:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guillaume.crihan.fr) |
| 13:48.27 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in |
| 13:48.27 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in |
| 13:48.44 | aloril | added old blog/news entry: http://www.mobilewhack.com/reviews/fic_neo1973_smartphone.html |
| 13:48.56 | aloril | "FIC apparently has the capacity to ship 100,000 of these phones per month. " |
| 13:49.14 | anrp | that's believable |
| 13:50.07 | aloril | that indeed sounds like 800 pound gorilla ;-) |
| 13:50.20 | mmazur | It is. |
| 13:50.25 | aloril | still, only 1.2m/year ;-) |
| 13:50.37 | mmazur | Yea, there are gonna be shortages. |
| 13:51.03 | mmazur | I can see that ;) |
| 13:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:51.37 | aloril | thats about 3000 phones/day (so far I think they have done like some hundred/day, so only partial capacity used) |
| 13:52.45 | SpeedEvil | Err - no. |
| 13:53.03 | SpeedEvil | At the most they've been producing around 50-100/day |
| 13:53.45 | SpeedEvil | They are taking 1000 orders maybe/day now, they built them over a much longer period. |
| 13:53.50 | blindcoder | "Guess: these are phones." heh |
| 13:54.02 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E201.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:54.15 | CM | SpeedEvil: Sure? I think they produced them in a "batch" pretty quick, but the Q/A took some time |
| 13:54.26 | CM | Or a few batches rather |
| 13:54.42 | SpeedEvil | CM: there were reports of 'halfway through a batch' at one point |
| 13:54.55 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-170-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:55.01 | CM | SpeedEvil: Hmm.. True. Remember that too. |
| 13:55.10 | aloril | "Today I spent at the FIC Suzhou factory, mainly doing final QA/Testing of the first 300 Neo1973 GTA01 phones. While I was doing this, another 192 phones went through assembly, resulting in a total of 492 units available at this time. " |
| 13:55.20 | aloril | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/06/15#20070615-gta01-factory-trip |
| 13:55.26 | SpeedEvil | There is a big gap between producing 100/day - and 3000/day. |
| 13:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko computerNERDie (n=Tom@ip51cc56a4.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 13:55.48 | SpeedEvil | More workers, more ... |
| 13:55.51 | CM | aloril: Thanks, was thinking of that post |
| 13:56.05 | aloril | maybe they are doing it only for part of day ... |
| 13:56.30 | CM | Sounds to me like 192 phones were produced while Harald was doing some Q/A. Not that it took all day. Anyway.. |
| 13:56.32 | aloril | so that factory could produce more / day if they wanted and also they might (probably have) have other factories |
| 13:56.42 | CM | aloril: Exactly |
| 13:57.15 | Elrond | I think, the major headache was the LCM, no? |
| 13:57.20 | SpeedEvil | A production line will have multiple channels. |
| 13:57.41 | SpeedEvil | I suspect that probably only one channel was used for the initial run. |
| 13:58.17 | SpeedEvil | If you pull the trigger on a 10K order, you may get more of the production facility dedicated to you. |
| 13:58.18 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-76-208.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 13:58.40 | aloril | hmm.. assuming some really cool phone next year and really good progress in software development they could in theory not be able to produce enough phones, but still doesn't sound likely |
| 13:59.02 | SpeedEvil | Never happen. |
| 13:59.05 | aloril | SpeedEvil: sounds sensible |
| 13:59.12 | SpeedEvil | At that point, you call in subcontractors. |
| 13:59.25 | *** join/#openmoko arw (i=root@gateway/tor/x-ebd0dd393332de04) |
| 13:59.41 | *** join/#openmoko untwisted (n=untwiste@cnr00258.nursing.pitt.edu) |
| 13:59.48 | ewon | arw: hax! |
| 14:00.05 | untwisted | mornin all |
| 14:00.29 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5720B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:00.42 | untwisted | ouch |
| 14:00.49 | untwisted | I just got pwn't |
| 14:01.00 | dff | so |
| 14:01.07 | arw | good morning to untwisted |
| 14:01.08 | dff | can i buy the phone yet? :o |
| 14:01.16 | SpeedEvil | dff: look at topic |
| 14:01.20 | untwisted | hehe |
| 14:01.24 | dff | oh yay! |
| 14:01.30 | SpeedEvil | You do know it's not a working phone? |
| 14:01.37 | dff | i do know |
| 14:01.48 | dff | im gonna make it work with lots of python code! |
| 14:01.51 | rwhitby | click that buy button then! |
| 14:01.54 | untwisted | Thats why I'm here, I'd like to know if anyone has their hands on it yet |
| 14:01.55 | SpeedEvil | There is a Group Order page on the wiki to avoid shipping costs. |
| 14:02.11 | dff | what does it have atm? |
| 14:02.33 | SpeedEvil | Basically it's a small X box, with a dialer app that works most of the time. |
| 14:02.41 | untwisted | I'd really like to putz with it, but I'm not sure if I want this version or the october release. It seems like the $150 and 4 months may be worth the new features. |
| 14:02.44 | SpeedEvil | And some prototype other apps. |
| 14:02.47 | rwhitby | dff: wiki for info, mokomakefile to "make qemu" and look |
| 14:03.00 | dff | oh ok |
| 14:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko jebba (n=jebba@220-179-89-200.fibertel.com.ar) |
| 14:03.12 | dff | iPhone vs OpenMoko? ;> |
| 14:03.19 | untwisted | OpenMoko |
| 14:03.41 | untwisted | OSS > Apple > Windows IMO |
| 14:03.52 | dff | communix! |
| 14:04.04 | Elrond | FOSS > OSS |
| 14:04.07 | Elrond | ;o) |
| 14:04.11 | untwisted | ya ya :P |
| 14:04.14 | blindcoder | I absolutely want the wifi, so I'm biding my time |
| 14:04.22 | blindcoder | FLOSS > loss of teeth |
| 14:04.25 | untwisted | yah, I think the wifi is a pretty big deal |
| 14:04.40 | untwisted | I really want to play with it though... I need a get rich quick scheme! |
| 14:05.06 | blindcoder | untwisted: grab the qemu for it and develop your snowball makememoney app :) |
| 14:05.09 | dff | mobile device hacker wants to get down and dirty with the first freed phone |
| 14:05.11 | dff | >:) |
| 14:05.13 | blindcoder | untwisted: and don't forget the 10% share for me |
| 14:05.17 | Elrond | I hope the power management on thr GTA02 will really be better. |
| 14:05.37 | blindcoder | Elrond: what's the problem with pm? |
| 14:06.09 | untwisted | how do you propose I make money with a free phone app? charge for support and include no help? :P |
| 14:06.10 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) |
| 14:06.12 | dff | 2.8" VGA TFT color display is that from corner to corner? |
| 14:06.14 | Elrond | blindcoder - Well, the CPU and LCM need a lot of power. |
| 14:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-147-20-165.range86-147.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:06.43 | blindcoder | untwisted: sounds like a good idea |
| 14:06.44 | dff | thats 7cm |
| 14:06.48 | blindcoder | Elrond: I see |
| 14:07.12 | SpeedEvil | dff: yes |
| 14:07.19 | aloril | hmm... rumor: $300 phone from Apple? http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0929372220070709 |
| 14:07.40 | Elrond | dff dff - http://www.flickr.com/groups/openmoko/pool/ |
| 14:07.45 | untwisted | maybe if I make a nice app and ask for donations to buy the phone people will send me enough to buy one |
| 14:07.48 | inz | Elrond, shouldn't that be OSS \in FOSS, > is somewhat unambiguous |
| 14:07.52 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 14:08.18 | blindcoder | untwisted: hah, good luck with that one |
| 14:08.38 | untwisted | Anyone know if the onscreen keyboard works well with thumbs, or if you'd have to tote that huge ass stylus? |
| 14:09.11 | blindcoder | huge ass styluses are called dildos |
| 14:09.14 | blindcoder | sorry for that |
| 14:09.15 | CM | Did the guy who made the calculator get a phone? I think he did.. |
| 14:09.16 | Elrond | untwisted - My friend was able to do "alsactl -f /etc/alsa/stereo* restore" using his fingernails. ;-) |
| 14:09.22 | untwisted | nice! |
| 14:09.31 | ScaredyCat | aloril: it might be $300 but it'll still be locked |
| 14:09.34 | untwisted | huzzah for sweet phones |
| 14:09.35 | Elrond | untwisted - But it took minutes! |
| 14:09.38 | untwisted | lol |
| 14:09.43 | untwisted | well thats a point to work on then |
| 14:10.11 | untwisted | *sigh* well unfortunately it looks like I'm gonna be dumping $750 in phones over the new few months. I need to get one of these suckers :P |
| 14:10.25 | untwisted | damn my inability to restrain myself |
| 14:10.59 | blindcoder | well, the first thing I'd probably write for that phone is a 'quick note keeping' app |
| 14:11.04 | Elrond | untwisted - You're well aware, that this phone targets developers (read: It's not useable by joe average consumer) |
| 14:11.10 | untwisted | aye |
| 14:11.13 | Elrond | s/not/not yet |
| 14:11.15 | blindcoder | as in 'move stylus over screen, draw aline on the canvas' |
| 14:11.15 | aloril | ScaredyCat: yup, no personal interest, just thought you might to want to be aware it |
| 14:11.20 | *** part/#openmoko computerNERDie (n=Tom@ip51cc56a4.adsl-surfen.hetnet.nl) |
| 14:12.14 | untwisted | some buddies of mine and I are working on an exo-kernel, and it would be interesting to develop it for this bugger rather than just general purpose like we were thinking |
| 14:12.28 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 14:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 14:13.05 | aloril | anybody made order recently? what is rt ticket number? |
| 14:13.23 | Elrond | untwisted - Yeah, the hardware is all documented (either in ource or real specs), so that is do-able (although writing for ARM is well.. interesting) |
| 14:13.24 | blindcoder | aloril: just send a mail to order@om and have a look at the reply :) |
| 14:13.33 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-057-241-046.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:13.43 | untwisted | hehe |
| 14:13.51 | aloril | blindcoder: hehe (don't wanna spam them) |
| 14:13.58 | ScaredyCat | that' probably the worst idea ever blindcoder |
| 14:14.06 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@s15244973.onlinehome-server.info) |
| 14:14.07 | untwisted | it can't be much worse than trying to figure out how to get in to pure 64 bit mode with nothing more than 3 AMD docs that explain little |
| 14:14.25 | blindcoder | ScaredyCat: hah, you should see some other ideas of mine and then say that again (several times, probably) |
| 14:14.48 | Elrond | untwisted - The CPU doc is 300 pages. ;-) |
| 14:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D809C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:14.59 | untwisted | I'm a 4th year CS student and this project is so far above my head I can hardly see the light anymore, but we're trudging through it! |
| 14:15.18 | ScaredyCat | for(;;) echo "that's probably the worst idea ever blindcoder"; |
| 14:15.27 | untwisted | among the linux source, the docs, and trial and error we've made a bit of progress ;) |
| 14:15.29 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (i=gabe@nat/ibm/x-f2779ef1852bbf15) |
| 14:15.46 | Elrond | untwisted - ;-) |
| 14:15.46 | *** join/#openmoko delinka (n=delinka@adsl-065-006-144-097.sip.asm.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:15.47 | blindcoder | ScaredyCat: yeah, that sounds about right. |
| 14:16.16 | untwisted | brb |
| 14:16.39 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: noooooo |
| 14:16.49 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: step away from the php man :-) |
| 14:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko untwisted (n=bam33@cnr00258.nursing.pitt.edu) |
| 14:17.03 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 14:17.04 | ScaredyCat | I have to do it ... |
| 14:17.08 | blindcoder | anyway, I'm going home |
| 14:17.08 | untwisted | back! |
| 14:17.09 | blindcoder | bbl |
| 14:17.25 | ScaredyCat | 10000 lines, and i need to review it all.... |
| 14:17.28 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: yeah we've all gotta earn a living. I'm actually a Plone dev by trade |
| 14:17.38 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: I feel for you :-) |
| 14:18.10 | duffyd | btw I noticed someone on the mailing list asking about how to get started developing on the Neo1973 - this is a question I'm interested in too |
| 14:18.12 | ScaredyCat | sometimes, it even gets 'OMFG who wrote this crap' ....'oh yeah, it was me' |
| 14:18.21 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: lol |
| 14:18.23 | *** part/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L3bbd.l.pppool.de) |
| 14:18.31 | aloril | latest number is #2686 from about 8h ago |
| 14:18.42 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: I think we're all our worst critics ;-) |
| 14:18.48 | *** join/#openmoko slider_ (n=foo@pD957450B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:18.49 | galexande | duffyd, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 14:18.54 | aloril | (from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners and its history) |
| 14:18.57 | ScaredyCat | somtimes I encrypt it as i write it ;) |
| 14:18.59 | duffyd | galexande: thanks |
| 14:19.10 | duffyd | ScaredyCat: lol |
| 14:19.15 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeeti1 (n=david@c-69-249-179-35.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:19.39 | duffyd | galexande: how easy is it to get a python environment running on the Neo? |
| 14:21.22 | CM | It's generating a lot of press: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070710-developer-models-of-openmoko-open-source-smartphone-released.html |
| 14:21.47 | duffyd | CM: cool! |
| 14:21.49 | *** join/#openmoko jonwil (n=jonwil@220-245-194-178.tpgi.com.au) |
| 14:21.55 | galexande | duffyd, i bet it's as easy as, worst case, mounting your PC HDD via NFS and downloading python source to it and running ./configure; make |
| 14:21.56 | CM | duffyd: It's already there, with bindings for the moko libs too |
| 14:22.17 | galexande | but you can probably use the cross-development tools like ./configure --target=arm-linux-elf or something |
| 14:22.36 | galexande | i'm worri.ed about all the press, a lot of the slashdot weenies will turn into major whiners. |
| 14:22.39 | duffyd | CM: cool. So after running the MokoMakeFile it should be built in? |
| 14:23.20 | rwhitby | duffyd: should be. |
| 14:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko luke-jr_work (n=luke-jr@adsl-76-194-177-181.dsl.ksc2mo.sbcglobal.net) |
| 14:23.29 | duffyd | rwhitby: grand! |
| 14:23.34 | duffyd | rwhitby: do you know which version of python? |
| 14:24.08 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 14:25.14 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@p5B005117.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:25.16 | rwhitby | duffyd: oh, it's not built into the image, but it's only a bitbake away |
| 14:25.50 | mintee | what day are they thinking it's going to ship out? |
| 14:25.50 | rwhitby | 2.4.4 is what you would get by default I think. |
| 14:26.15 | duffyd | rwhitby: great. Is bitbake a MokoMakeFile-specific command? |
| 14:26.19 | rwhitby | CM: that arstechnica article is pretty good. |
| 14:26.39 | CM | rwhitby: Yes, they usually are :) |
| 14:26.42 | rwhitby | duffyd: no, bitbake is the underlying build system for OpenEmbedded. MokoMakefile just wraps around the lot of that to make it easier to set up. |
| 14:26.56 | duffyd | rwhitby: great, thanks again! |
| 14:27.07 | CM | duffyd: rwhitby made the MokoMakefile ;) |
| 14:27.09 | rwhitby | CM: I like the way the characterise GTA01 as a prototype of GTA02, just missing some features like wifi and accels. |
| 14:27.33 | CM | rwhitby: Exactly, really got it right and in a positive way |
| 14:27.38 | slider_ | are there any functional constraints to phython on the neo if "just compile"/bitbake it? |
| 14:27.49 | Viko | rwhitby: but won't GTA02 have a faster processor? |
| 14:28.00 | *** join/#openmoko untwisted (n=bam33@cnr00258.nursing.pitt.edu) |
| 14:28.04 | rwhitby | Viko: yep |
| 14:28.21 | CM | Viko: And a graphics chip :) |
| 14:28.26 | *** part/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 14:28.28 | Viko | rwhitby: They should probably have written that too then.. |
| 14:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 14:28.33 | Viko | Since they mention the wifi. |
| 14:28.52 | rwhitby | "Unlike the final release models, which will be available in October, the prototype units lack WiFi support and don't have built-in accelerometers." is a good way to state it for people who are not familiar with the project. |
| 14:29.40 | duffyd | accelerometers? |
| 14:29.48 | *** join/#openmoko orzo (n=joe@adsl-2-231-21.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:29.48 | duffyd | excuse my ignorance ;-) |
| 14:29.53 | ewon | tilt |
| 14:29.58 | SpeedEvil | Gravity field gradient detectors. |
| 14:30.02 | orzo | how does openmoko/neo1973 compare to the trolltech greenphone? |
| 14:30.13 | jonwil | Its a lot more open for one thing IIRC |
| 14:30.13 | duffyd | orzo: it's made in Taiwan ;-) |
| 14:30.26 | CM | The mp3-player must have a random function that works by shaking it hard ;) |
| 14:30.27 | orzo | dunno why that matters |
| 14:30.28 | duffyd | well the parent company is in Taiwan anyway |
| 14:30.35 | rwhitby | both my neo's and my n800 could have used some gravity deflectors in the last month. both have been dropped onto the pavement from chest height. |
| 14:30.37 | SpeedEvil | duffyd: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals |
| 14:30.44 | duffyd | SpeedEvil: thanks |
| 14:31.06 | Viko | rwhitby: Its generally good yes, I was thinking about; "... which features a 2.8 inch touchscreen, a 266 Mhz ARM processor, and WiFi—is the fir ..." They should mention a faster processor if they mention Wifi (unless I am sadly mistaken, and 266MHz IS the faster processor) |
| 14:31.15 | orzo | is the greenphone less open? |
| 14:31.46 | rwhitby | orzo: http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/lovely-respond-to-lorn-potter-of.html |
| 14:32.00 | kensan | orzo: indeed. The whole communication stack is "closed". See also latest blog-entry from zecke |
| 14:32.16 | galexande | what is this, random debian problem day? |
| 14:32.20 | rwhitby | more green, less open :-) |
| 14:33.09 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 14:33.20 | jonwil | Is there any discussion anywhere as to why the Neo1973 does not feature a camera (either in the current version or the new final version with WiFi)? |
| 14:33.21 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 14:33.23 | ScaredyCat | CM: and a snow globe, that you shake |
| 14:34.21 | delinka | has anyone else seen problems with __ptr_t not being defined when building from the openmoko sources for the first time? |
| 14:34.43 | orzo | thanks, kensan and rwhitby |
| 14:35.05 | ScaredyCat | delinka: you on a mac? |
| 14:35.10 | delinka | yes |
| 14:35.23 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 14:35.39 | ScaredyCat | someone else had the same issue.. |
| 14:35.52 | ScaredyCat | same problem. same cause |
| 14:35.57 | ScaredyCat | iyswim |
| 14:36.16 | delinka | I added typedef void * __ptr_t to one of the seemingly appropriate header files and it's running ATM, but ... |
| 14:36.43 | delinka | I feel dirty hacking around w/o knowing *anything* about the project yet |
| 14:38.42 | noidd | man, I would love to know how many neos they sold so far |
| 14:39.10 | luke-jr_work | does the Neo1973 support prepaid plans and such? |
| 14:39.13 | delinka | If I can get some basic apps going on the emulator, I'm buying a dev kit *soon* |
| 14:39.42 | delinka | luke-jr_work: that's going to depend on the network you're on - the *phone* is just a phone |
| 14:39.52 | *** join/#openmoko Pete-J (n=Pete@71-127.lerstenen.t3.se) |
| 14:40.15 | ScaredyCat | it's not locked luke-jr_work |
| 14:40.18 | notserpe | luke-jr_work: you know this is a developer release right? |
| 14:40.20 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 14:40.24 | ScaredyCat | so any sim should work |
| 14:40.25 | andylockran | luke-jr_work: you can get really good pre-paid sim only |
| 14:40.30 | andylockran | then just stick the sim in the neo |
| 14:40.41 | kensan | luke-jr_work: as long as it is a sim-card for gsm every contract works. |
| 14:40.57 | Pete-J | Hello iam just wondering if it's possible to install OpenMoko on an iPAQ hw6910? |
| 14:40.58 | aloril | Pete-J: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:41.25 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:41.28 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:41.42 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:42.18 | delinka | ScaredyCat: there's also a problem relying on Mac OS X's 'which' command ... |
| 14:42.43 | *** join/#openmoko Sharkz (n=Miranda@31-112-124-91.pool.ukrtel.net) |
| 14:42.45 | *** part/#openmoko Pete-J (n=Pete@71-127.lerstenen.t3.se) |
| 14:43.10 | luke-jr_work | notserpe: I'm waiting for the final |
| 14:43.36 | luke-jr_work | so in practice/reality, the prepaid plans *do/will* work? |
| 14:43.56 | delinka | ok, the emulator is running ... how the hell do I "Touch the crosshairs to calibrate the screen"? mouse-clicking it doesn't seem to work :/ |
| 14:44.25 | luke-jr_work | any idea if the prepaid things generally support network access? ;) |
| 14:44.34 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 14:44.36 | aloril | camera? |
| 14:44.36 | aloril | There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware for details on what is included. Also see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (also some model next year probably will gave camera module: http://www.channelweb.co.uk/vnunet/news/2192036/first-open-source-mobile-phone ) |
| 14:44.37 | galexande | pete, probably but it's not trivial |
| 14:45.03 | delinka | ah, nevermind - double-clicking ;-) |
| 14:45.28 | aloril | jonwil: camera would basically require case modification which requires retooling which is very expensive |
| 14:45.29 | Stephmw | luke-jr_work: check with your local operator |
| 14:45.31 | delinka | can I get a Firewire port for my iSight? :P |
| 14:45.35 | Stephmw | luke-jr_work: this kind of stuff is really variable |
| 14:46.22 | jonwil | ok, thanks for the info aloril |
| 14:47.02 | aloril | jonwil: also not all can buy device with camera because its forbidden in many places |
| 14:47.05 | Stephmw | hey mickeyl |
| 14:47.15 | delinka | does anyone make a Blluetooth camera? that'd be cool |
| 14:47.16 | aloril | There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware for details on what is included. Also see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (also some model next year probably will gave camera module: http://www.channelweb.co.uk/vnunet/news/2192036/first-open-source-mobile-phone ) |
| 14:47.19 | Shoragan | hi mickey :) |
| 14:47.22 | aloril | hi mickeyl, seems to be selling quite fast |
| 14:47.52 | Elrond | Hi mickeyl! :-) |
| 14:47.55 | jonwil | I think maybe the answer is to produce a simple accessory camera module that can use the usb host of the openmoko phone. |
| 14:47.56 | Shoragan | mickeyl, stefan has arrived at RMLL at amiens |
| 14:48.10 | mickeyl | hi |
| 14:48.47 | jonwil | Such module would contain as little electrics as possible and rely on control software running on neo phone to work |
| 14:49.01 | galexande | woo mokomakefile was just stalled because my libldap spontaneously combusted |
| 14:49.08 | galexande | i lovethe easy ones |
| 14:49.10 | jonwil | Would have the advantage of not requiring any retooling of neo phone case |
| 14:49.20 | aloril | Stephmw: it has been digged at least one more time, maybe 3 total digged articles for this "its available for order" |
| 14:49.32 | Stephmw | aloril: ouch |
| 14:49.45 | Stephmw | aloril: do we have a channel membership over time graph? :D |
| 14:49.53 | aloril | Stephmw: also I think USA is starting to awake and there are continuously new news in various medias |
| 14:49.54 | CM | jonwil: Why not bluetooth? |
| 14:49.58 | galexande | jonwil, really the only reason to integrate the camera into the phone is to save pocket space...if you have to carry around a second device, it might as well be a camera |
| 14:50.21 | Stephmw | galexande: with the poor quality of cheap cameras on phones, it might as well be a camera :) |
| 14:50.22 | jonwil | Does anyone make a bluetooth camera? |
| 14:50.35 | galexande | stephmw, my thoughts exactly |
| 14:50.45 | Elrond | galexande - Exactly. I want good glas anyway. ;-) |
| 14:50.48 | CM | Not yet, that I know of.. But it's only a matter of time :) |
| 14:51.19 | Stephmw | galexande: mind you, I wouldn't mind _controlling_ my dSLR from the Neo :) |
| 14:51.27 | galexande | heh |
| 14:51.43 | aloril | Stephmw: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/details.php?room=%23openmoko&net=freenode |
| 14:51.51 | CM | There's several cameras with wifi though |
| 14:51.51 | Ganneff | 2007-01__STATUS:20-01-2007 21:57:25 (!) Irssi: New peak in #openmoko@opn : 190 |
| 14:51.59 | jonwil | good point, yeah, if you are going to have to use a seperate device to take photos, it may as well be a full camera |
| 14:52.12 | Stephmw | aloril: thanks! |
| 14:52.32 | untwisted | I like the ability to quick snap a pic, but I'll admit I often don't use the camera on my phone, and could easily do without |
| 14:53.21 | Elrond | untwisted - Right. (my phone has no camera) and in the occassions I would have liked to have a camera, I would have needed a good one. |
| 14:54.21 | notserpe | how are we gonna cool startrek videoconference each other on moko with no camera? |
| 14:54.27 | untwisted | yah, I'd be willing to sacrifice the camera for a badass phone |
| 14:54.43 | aloril | btw.. new record currently in number of nicks |
| 14:55.20 | ScaredyCat | j /#asterisk-drinkers |
| 14:55.25 | ScaredyCat | ooops |
| 14:55.45 | mickeyl | Shoragan: thanks, cool. will he go to Birmingham directly from there or come back in between? |
| 14:56.04 | galexande | ack, some mokomakefile patch set is out of date |
| 14:56.06 | Shoragan | mickeyl, he'll come back for the weekend |
| 14:56.26 | ewon | so hands up who has ordered a phone and has got some form of confirmation email, even an automagic one? |
| 14:56.35 | noidd | man, i'd love to know how many we've sold. After all, if the store melted down - that has to be a good sign right? |
| 14:56.43 | Elrond | notserpe - well, (I'm no treky) I thought, the old comminucators were voice only? |
| 14:56.55 | galexande | ewon, almost everyone has an automatic one from RT, i don't think anyonehas an actual confirmation |
| 14:57.05 | ewon | galexande: great, I got nothing :( |
| 14:57.29 | aloril | historical records (nick count date; ...): 106 2006-12-04; 201 2007-01-21; 283 2007-03-07; 288 2007-07-02; 343 2007-07-09; 347 2007-07-10 |
| 14:58.11 | untwisted | so I don't need to feel rushed to order one yet eh? ;) |
| 14:58.14 | aloril | notserpe, jonwil: I suspect there will be future models with camera |
| 14:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host8-57-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 14:58.44 | CM | ewon: Sure yours didn't get stuck in a spam filter somewhere? |
| 14:58.51 | ewon | CM: quite sure. |
| 14:58.56 | CM | :/ |
| 14:58.56 | notserpe | aloril: I'd suspect so also, seeing as consumers tend to want them... even if restricted security developers don't/can't. |
| 14:59.01 | aloril | ewon: id did melt down for some hours |
| 14:59.07 | aloril | (store) |
| 14:59.18 | ewon | I only have one spam folder, and I checked that. I do have greylisting working, but that would delay it an hour, tops. |
| 14:59.37 | galexande | ewon, their mailserver doesn't retry |
| 14:59.50 | don-o | counter |
| 14:59.51 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, a day 21:00:09 (8.875±3.0 days) (1727;246) |
| 15:00.04 | *** part/#openmoko notserpe (n=eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 15:00.08 | aloril | ewon: did you get blank page or page that says to wait for comfimation mail? |
| 15:00.22 | aloril | ewon: there are reports of confirmation mail taking more than 24h |
| 15:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfUrl (n=chatzill@70-59-219-199.clsp.qwest.net) |
| 15:02.25 | *** join/#openmoko |mperitus (i=user@198.173.8.69) |
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| 15:22.00 | untwisted | dead in here now :( |
| 15:22.19 | blindcoder | yeah, one could download the sound ofa needle falling |
| 15:22.25 | untwisted | hah |
| 15:22.41 | untwisted | I want to not be at work so I can try some openmoko dev :( |
| 15:23.11 | *** part/#openmoko rschuste2 (n=rob@vpn.tarent.de) |
| 15:23.23 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 15:23.24 | |mperitus | how is it? does it live up to expectations? |
| 15:23.36 | untwisted | no idea |
| 15:23.57 | DukeOfUrl | blindcoder: do you use a reader or braile device |
| 15:23.59 | DukeOfUrl | ? |
| 15:24.15 | blindcoder | DukeOfUrl: neither, the 'blind' does not refer to my eyes |
| 15:24.20 | DukeOfUrl | sorry |
| 15:24.36 | blindcoder | no offense taken |
| 15:25.04 | DukeOfUrl | My blind associates say the Neo will be useless because of the lack of tactile feedback |
| 15:25.09 | Compudj | hello! I wonder if there is any help I can give regarding Linux kernel support for the openmoko.. it looks like a very cool project :) |
| 15:25.33 | galexande | compudj, there are still probably bugs in the drivers |
| 15:25.39 | Compudj | oh, great :) |
| 15:25.47 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 15:25.48 | cjb | Compudj: there's an openmoko-kernel mailing list. |
| 15:25.48 | galexande | though i've been lead to believej that the kernel side is the only side that is "mostly there" |
| 15:25.56 | Compudj | I see that it runs on the ARM architecture... |
| 15:26.01 | PBeck | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison <= hum is the RAM with 256 mb on the GTA02 right? |
| 15:26.04 | Compudj | how many MB or ram/HD do you have ? |
| 15:26.39 | PBeck | i dont think so. GTA02 has 128 mb RAM? |
| 15:26.50 | untwisted | I think the 02 has 256 |
| 15:26.53 | Compudj | hum, interesting... since it is a standard kernel, my kernel tracer could probably help out (LTTng) |
| 15:27.08 | Compudj | (mostly standard) |
| 15:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0FCCC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:27.50 | thomasg_ | untwisted, PBeck, flash will be 256 mb in gta02, ram will stay at 128 mb |
| 15:27.56 | untwisted | oh my bad |
| 15:28.31 | thomasg_ | well, I whish it was the other way, but also 128 mb are huge |
| 15:28.46 | don-o | that wiki page should be updated, then. |
| 15:29.19 | PBeck | thomasg_: you confirm my guess |
| 15:29.28 | thomasg_ | oh, on the wiki is 256 mb for flash AND ram. but I never heard somebody saying that the ram will be increased |
| 15:29.33 | galexande | the s3c accesses memory in 128mb banks |
| 15:29.47 | PBeck | thomasg_: hrhr ... my words :P |
| 15:30.09 | thomasg_ | yeah, in fact sean didn't say something about the ram |
| 15:30.13 | thomasg_ | so the wiki is wrong |
| 15:30.23 | thomasg_ | I'll change that |
| 15:30.54 | PBeck | ok good |
| 15:32.19 | thomasg_ | changed |
| 15:33.08 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 15:34.53 | thomasg_ | hehe, on the P1_Owners page the highest order number is #2686 - so all 1000 neos should be sold now |
| 15:35.19 | woglinde | thomasg yes seems so |
| 15:35.23 | cjb | wow |
| 15:35.44 | don-o | sold out in 24-48 hours, just like the iPhone :) |
| 15:35.56 | ScaredyCat | eh? |
| 15:35.57 | thomasg_ | hehe. other dimensons, but very nice for FIC and for us |
| 15:36.08 | ScaredyCat | there were 1000 of them.... |
| 15:36.09 | mintee | mine is 2816 |
| 15:36.33 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 15:36.48 | thomasg_ | mintee, so I think you maybe have to wait for the next production run |
| 15:36.48 | parag0n | hahahah |
| 15:37.03 | mintee | Oh well... didn't have the time to order yesterday |
| 15:37.20 | flingpoo | I wish MicroSD cards weren't so tiny and slow. |
| 15:37.22 | thomasg_ | well, I think FIC will produce the next few hundered, soon |
| 15:37.26 | ScaredyCat | but but but |
| 15:37.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko2007/it]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973/it]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Current_events]] [[Wishlist:Expansion_Front]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware_Debugging/it]] [[P1_Owners]] and other changes |
| 15:37.35 | ScaredyCat | the number is just a ticket number.. |
| 15:37.46 | thomasg_ | ScaredyCat, but we can assume that it started at 1800 |
| 15:37.47 | ScaredyCat | anything that gets emailed in gets a ticket number |
| 15:37.53 | thomasg_ | yeah, right |
| 15:38.01 | ScaredyCat | even if its not an order |
| 15:38.07 | ScaredyCat | even if it's spam |
| 15:38.08 | ScaredyCat | etc |
| 15:38.13 | mintee | why are we assuming? |
| 15:38.32 | thomasg_ | mintee, if we don't know we only can assume or try to know :) |
| 15:38.54 | PBeck | where ist the P1-owner page? |
| 15:39.08 | don-o | PBeck: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 15:39.16 | galexande | rwhitby, there is a mismatch between uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r11_4ef.../git/patches/uboot-dfu.patch and the file a modifies (u-boot/tools/Makefile). it is ane asy mismatch, i can correct the uboot-dfu.patch file, are you interested? |
| 15:39.16 | mintee | thomasg_, yes... i guess someone with the lowest ticket number was around 1800 |
| 15:39.17 | ScaredyCat | 1800 was the lowest reported order id / ticket, from here |
| 15:39.21 | PBeck | don-o: thanks |
| 15:39.35 | ScaredyCat | 1820 wasn;t it? |
| 15:39.47 | ScaredyCat | Jason1 was the first iirc |
| 15:39.57 | ScaredyCat | then CM |
| 15:40.49 | ScaredyCat | and i think roh confirmed that Jason1 was the first |
| 15:41.06 | thomasg_ | ScaredyCat, yes, it was 1820 |
| 15:41.12 | ScaredyCat | not that it matters.. since.. |
| 15:41.21 | ScaredyCat | All your neo are belong to me |
| 15:41.50 | thomasg_ | well, all I want to know is, if I will get one of the first 1k devices, cause I don't want to wait longer :) |
| 15:42.11 | thomasg_ | but - it will be shipped at the 16th or so and I am away for a week then :( |
| 15:42.17 | ScaredyCat | if you don't Ill sell you mine... |
| 15:42.22 | ScaredyCat | at a reasonable rate, of course |
| 15:42.25 | thomasg_ | hehe |
| 15:42.42 | thomasg_ | I have a order number <2000, so this shouldn't be a problem ^^ |
| 15:42.46 | SpeedEvil | I would not be surprised to see some popping up on ebay. |
| 15:42.53 | thomasg_ | oh, it will, I'm sure |
| 15:43.00 | untwisted | think they'll ship me one on good looks rather than money? |
| 15:43.04 | ScaredyCat | yeh... I wish they'd mentioned the 16th as the possible shipping date... |
| 15:43.10 | ScaredyCat | it's all rather vague |
| 15:43.15 | thomasg_ | I hope I get the JTAG before gta02 release on ebay (for < $150) |
| 15:43.41 | ScaredyCat | untwisted: you'll never get one then ;) |
| 15:44.40 | untwisted | you're pwobaby wight :( |
| 15:44.41 | ScaredyCat | s/bad/back/ |
| 15:45.39 | thomasg_ | the only thing I hope for is, that the costums won't get the device :) |
| 15:45.45 | thomasg_ | *customs |
| 15:46.16 | ScaredyCat | .. I'm guessing that since there's me and Eric who fancy a steampunk case... and that's all... it they wont get made? |
| 15:46.48 | ScaredyCat | I hate that... :/ |
| 15:47.07 | delinka | "If you forgot to request a special color..." Special colors? What "special" colors are available? |
| 15:47.37 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@dsl092-008-246.sfo1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 15:47.57 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 15:48.16 | ScaredyCat | although, sometimes stuff destined for europe from the us seems to go in via the uk, then on to de, and sort of gets forgotten about, in duty terms :) |
| 15:48.19 | jpcass | some people think orange is special |
| 15:48.35 | ScaredyCat | those are 'special' people jpcass ;) |
| 15:48.55 | galexande | i am special! |
| 15:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko n__alurdu (n=jordan@d64-180-118-171.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 15:49.05 | ScaredyCat | yes, yesy you are |
| 15:49.16 | jpcass | galexande: can i be your friend? |
| 15:49.24 | ScaredyCat | lol |
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| 15:50.17 | *** join/#openmoko ibnjam (n=ibnjam@203.92.154.36) |
| 15:50.47 | ScaredyCat | did anyone get anwhere with the u-boot.udfu target being missing |
| 15:51.23 | delinka | is there an OpenMoko dev channel on freenode? |
| 15:51.33 | galexande | scaredy, i'm not having a missing target, my uboot problem was uboot-dfu.patch can't apply. |
| 15:51.57 | galexande | i don't really feel the need to build uboot, i wish i could get it to skip it :) |
| 15:52.11 | mickeyl | delinka: since we are far away from a user release, #openmoko should serve as the developer's channel for now |
| 15:52.16 | ScaredyCat | | NOTE: make CROSS_COMPILE=arm-linux- u-boot.udfu |
| 15:52.16 | ScaredyCat | | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/moko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux/uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r11_4ef218f6fdf8d747f4589da5252b004e7d2c2876_0_2348/git' |
| 15:52.16 | ScaredyCat | | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `u-boot.udfu'. Stop. |
| 15:52.19 | galexande | and now there's an extra #endif, probably the result of partial compiling. |
| 15:52.33 | galexande | s/compiling/patching/ |
| 15:52.37 | delinka | "should" ... yes ... but it seems rather busy with noise :/ |
| 15:52.42 | ScaredyCat | yes, remove it from usbcore.h |
| 15:53.07 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@Yebe0.y.pppool.de) |
| 15:53.17 | aloril | 997 rt tickete numbers now, 130 new in last 8 hours (16 orders/h for last 8h), total about 22 orders / h |
| 15:53.27 | delinka | where should __ptr_t be declared/defined? |
| 15:54.01 | ScaredyCat | define it just before there, there;s a few defines... iirc it's a know issue on Macs |
| 15:54.04 | galexande | sweet, i am shutting shit down to install my new drive and i see everything spitting out ENOSPC errors |
| 15:54.08 | galexande | perfect timing |
| 15:54.42 | aloril | 1820 is lowest order ticket number |
| 15:55.08 | ScaredyCat | s/wap/warp/ |
| 15:55.11 | delinka | ScaredyCat: but that didn't really answer the question - where does it come from on other platforms? where *should* it be? Like I said, I added it (as void *) and I'm working, but what's the correct way to fix it? |
| 15:55.59 | ScaredyCat | unfortuneately my irc log doesn't go back that far... but I know it was discussed... |
| 15:56.24 | ScaredyCat | nooed to go on the wiki though |
| 15:56.41 | ScaredyCat | s/nooed/needs/ |
| 15:56.52 | ScaredyCat | ~botsnack |
| 15:56.52 | apt | ScaredyCat: :) |
| 15:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD7FD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:57.42 | aloril | ScaredyCat: catched up now, I was too fast with that 1820 line ;-) |
| 15:58.30 | *** part/#openmoko ibnjam (n=ibnjam@203.92.154.36) |
| 15:59.50 | Shoragan | ScaredyCat, there should be an update in svn soon which fixes the build-problem |
| 16:00.23 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 16:01.01 | delinka | "the build problem" - which one? |
| 16:01.15 | Shoragan | uboot-gta01 fails to patch correctly |
| 16:01.27 | delinka | ah |
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| 16:06.14 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfUrl_ (n=chatzill@71-34-153-162.clsp.qwest.net) |
| 16:06.34 | wansti | does anyone know why there's no sound with the image built from the latest revision(s)? |
| 16:07.05 | hrw | lack of sound modules in image probably |
| 16:08.52 | TRIsoft | Duck and cover :-) |
| 16:09.34 | wansti | maybe... there's no sound at all, no ringing, no startup sound, and it stays silent when you're trying to call... i don't know what's supposed to be working by now, though |
| 16:09.51 | delinka | I'm running the emulator in qemu and clicking doesn't simulate touching the touchscreen - what can I do about this? |
| 16:10.22 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-064-121-147.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:10.33 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:11.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2375 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: uboot-dfu.patch: resync with upstream, fixes #635. Thanks Jan "Shoragan" Luebbe for the patch. |
| 16:11.42 | galexande | yay |
| 16:11.44 | galexande | thanks |
| 16:11.48 | woglinde | hehe |
| 16:14.57 | ScaredyCat | yaaaay!!!! |
| 16:15.31 | wansti | hey stefan_schmidt |
| 16:15.31 | Shoragan | hi stefan |
| 16:15.39 | wansti | how's France? |
| 16:15.44 | stefan_schmidt | hi guys |
| 16:15.58 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: busy |
| 16:16.02 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: ;) |
| 16:16.08 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:16.14 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: Should be better now. Talk is done and I still have three more days |
| 16:16.53 | wansti | yay :-) |
| 16:17.02 | stefan_schmidt | My notebook did not work with the beamer and we switched the talks to get something working. |
| 16:17.39 | stefan_schmidt | I was to fast and my spoken english really needs apolish |
| 16:17.58 | *** join/#openmoko FuzzyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 16:18.00 | stefan_schmidt | But besides that it mostly went well. Some discussion afterwards. Interested people |
| 16:18.14 | happycube | cool :) |
| 16:19.04 | stefan_schmidt | BTW, it's the Jule Verne university. I love his books. Need to take a look at the JV museum though |
| 16:20.42 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54929064.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:20.44 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: How is BS? |
| 16:20.56 | wansti | stefan_schmidt: busy :-) |
| 16:21.11 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: heh, your kidding |
| 16:21.18 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: hey! how was your talk? |
| 16:21.20 | wansti | i got that big exam on thursday. i wish i was |
| 16:21.22 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: Uni or the OpenMoko sound theme |
| 16:22.14 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Could have been better. Needed another notebook because mine refused the beamer. Spoken english needs to be better too, but besides that it should was ok |
| 16:22.26 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: Crossing fingers |
| 16:22.39 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: ~lart projectors |
| 16:22.40 | wansti | stefan_schmidt: thanks. openmoko sounds is next on my agenda |
| 16:23.03 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: I'm looking forward to 3 nice days in france |
| 16:23.28 | stefan_schmidt | ~90% of the talks are in french anyway and I don't understand french. :) |
| 16:23.29 | apt | okay, stefan_schmidt |
| 16:23.42 | stefan_schmidt | ~90% |
| 16:23.42 | apt | 0.9 |
| 16:23.59 | stefan_schmidt | apt: Take a break |
| 16:24.02 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: that sucks a bit |
| 16:24.16 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: but I'd rather be there than here |
| 16:24.22 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: jup |
| 16:24.30 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Why? Busy at home? |
| 16:24.33 | stefan_schmidt | ah |
| 16:24.41 | *** join/#openmoko Husare (n=AD@stgt-590ef586.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 16:24.51 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 16:24.52 | mickeyl | busy plus kind of reluctant to work |
| 16:24.58 | mickeyl | not a good match :D |
| 16:24.59 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ieee |
| 16:25.41 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Any news on Sean about GUADEC? As zecke seems to let us hang I like to know if I should cancel the second room |
| 16:27.35 | ynezz | order ACK anyone? :) |
| 16:27.37 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 16:27.42 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: can't say for sure. the worst thing is we cancel it when we're there. might need to pay for one night, but that should be ok |
| 16:28.00 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: we have three rooms or two? |
| 16:28.46 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: We had three. One for alphaone and gf, this one I canceled already. |
| 16:28.59 | mickeyl | huh? |
| 16:29.01 | mickeyl | why thatß |
| 16:29.02 | mickeyl | ? |
| 16:29.13 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Long story |
| 16:29.14 | mickeyl | ok |
| 16:29.23 | mickeyl | anyway. so both won't come? |
| 16:29.31 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: In short both will be in the same hotel anyway. :) |
| 16:29.41 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: uh, sorry. No both will come. |
| 16:29.52 | mickeyl | ah, but they have a seperate room? |
| 16:29.53 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Just some internal problem. |
| 16:30.10 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Yes, in the same hotel. Don't ask. ;) |
| 16:30.16 | mickeyl | ok, i won't |
| 16:30.30 | mickeyl | so now it's you and me and perhaps Sean |
| 16:30.31 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 16:30.34 | mickeyl | and mega-perhaps Zecke |
| 16:30.36 | stefan_schmidt | right |
| 16:30.50 | stefan_schmidt | I think zecke already decided against it? |
| 16:31.19 | jpcass | i guess you'll be bringing some samples to birmingham? |
| 16:31.29 | Shoragan | stefan, which tty is correct for gsm? and how do i restart gsmd and verify it's working? |
| 16:31.40 | mickeyl | ttyS0 |
| 16:31.48 | mickeyl | tail -f /tmp/gsm.log |
| 16:32.03 | stefan_schmidt | jpcass: Yes, we bring our phones. |
| 16:32.08 | Shoragan | ttySAC0? |
| 16:32.38 | mickeyl | yes, sac0 |
| 16:32.51 | jpcass | excellent, it will be good to see one alive! - any possibility to buy one there and then ? |
| 16:32.55 | stefan_schmidt | Shoragan: What are you doing |
| 16:32.58 | mickeyl | i'm so busy I even had no time to play with my gta02 |
| 16:32.59 | mickeyl | sigh |
| 16:33.05 | stefan_schmidt | jpcass: sorry, no |
| 16:33.06 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 16:33.30 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: I know it would have been better to send it to me. ;) |
| 16:33.43 | Shoragan | stefan, trying to get sound while a call is connected, and now it lost contact with the gsm :/ |
| 16:34.01 | stefan_schmidt | Shoragan: :( |
| 16:34.11 | stefan_schmidt | Shoragan: No alphaone wizard around? |
| 16:34.15 | Shoragan | no |
| 16:34.41 | happycube | is fic having cert. problems getting phones from taiwan->europe for sale? |
| 16:34.44 | happycube | or is it just slow? |
| 16:34.45 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 16:34.56 | alphaone | huh? |
| 16:35.01 | Shoragan | echo 0 > /sys/devices/platform/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on and the echo 1 > ... should reboot the GSM? |
| 16:35.11 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: hehe |
| 16:35.25 | alphaone | A wizzard precisely arrives when he means to :-) |
| 16:35.35 | wansti | lol alphaone |
| 16:35.36 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: heh |
| 16:35.40 | Shoragan | alphaone, you need to look at your jabber |
| 16:35.44 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484C652.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 16:38.36 | stefan_schmidt | Shoragan: A wizzard precisely looks when he means to ;) |
| 16:38.42 | Shoragan | :( |
| 16:39.23 | Shoragan | ^_^ |
| 16:39.31 | stefan_schmidt | Wow, one day no internet and you are total uninformed |
| 16:39.44 | alphaone | Shoragan: Yeah, I know of that problem. Seems to be gsmd |
| 16:39.44 | alphaone | Shoragan: I only fixed the problem when gsm serial would not be enabled at all, the other problem still remains.. |
| 16:39.48 | alphaone | I thought about looking at gsmd, but I have work to follow up on the keyboard |
| 16:39.58 | alphaone | Shoragan: And once that keyboard ist working all you need to do to call someone is fire up that console ;-9 |
| 16:40.08 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: ? |
| 16:40.35 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: ?? |
| 16:40.52 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: I just made fun of your sentence, nothing more. :) |
| 16:40.55 | alphaone | With my gf in Flensburg I might even get some work done the next couple days :-) |
| 16:41.33 | *** part/#openmoko |mperitus (i=user@198.173.8.69) |
| 16:41.55 | mickeyl | now tell me something |
| 16:42.00 | LarstiQ | any people located in or close to the Netherlands around wanting to share shipping costs? |
| 16:42.08 | mickeyl | how did you come up with that crazy "can i has a neo" idea? :D |
| 16:42.35 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: from the loldebain on p.d.o |
| 16:42.44 | alphaone | mickeyl: Seeing loldebian got me onto it. |
| 16:42.46 | wansti | ...and a roommate without self esteem :-p |
| 16:43.05 | don-o | stefan_schmidt: the photo (especially the lower lip) looks appropriately pathetic |
| 16:43.15 | alphaone | And then I remembered wansti had killed his phone |
| 16:43.38 | stefan_schmidt | don-o: wansti is just an actor and model. ;) |
| 16:43.57 | wansti | first comment i got from a female: "you look adorable and pathetic" :-) |
| 16:44.13 | alphaone | heh |
| 16:44.18 | don-o | mickeyl: (assuming im talking to the right person :) thank you for using an episode of battlestar galactica in the youtube clip about video playback on the moko. watching BSG is my main interest in the phone :) |
| 16:45.47 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@62.147.230.26) |
| 16:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko hrw_ (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 16:47.46 | stefan_schmidt | For people not at RMLL: http://people.openmoko.org/stefan/openezx-pres.pdf |
| 16:48.18 | mickeyl | i have broken my a1200 :D |
| 16:48.26 | mickeyl | (talking about ezx) |
| 16:48.32 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: outch |
| 16:48.49 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: I was not even aware you have one? |
| 16:48.57 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Bought in .tw? |
| 16:49.18 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: i brought one with me from .tw. it might not be bricked permanently, however i tried to flash all different kinds of firmware and all act the same. battery reading and SIM not working |
| 16:49.45 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Who needs battery and SIM, cought |
| 16:49.58 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Let us take a closer look at GUADEC |
| 16:51.53 | mickeyl | nice presentation |
| 16:52.00 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: ok, i'll bring it with me then |
| 16:52.00 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 16:52.29 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: thanks |
| 16:52.56 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: (a1200) Not sure if I'm a help, but it would not hurd |
| 16:53.02 | stefan_schmidt | hurt |
| 16:54.20 | Elrond | Evening people. |
| 16:54.30 | stefan_schmidt | hi Elrond |
| 16:54.31 | alphaone | hi Elrond |
| 16:55.18 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 16:58.44 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 16:58.54 | Aria | ing, sam? |
| 17:00.22 | alphaone | warning, playing with alsamixer during phone operation may be hazardous for your health :-) |
| 17:01.19 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@67.70.212.228) |
| 17:01.27 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:01.36 | Elrond | mickeyl - I can take your gta02 too. ;o) |
| 17:02.18 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 17:02.39 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: You already took my GTA01 ;) |
| 17:03.06 | pjz | I just realized why the A1200 looks so familiar... it looks like an Agena PDA! |
| 17:03.59 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - "took" sounds like I would have stolen it. ;o) |
| 17:04.12 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh, just kidding. :) |
| 17:04.31 | devestate | With regards to the GTA02 how is the search for a wireless chip going? |
| 17:04.32 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 17:05.05 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:05.24 | stefan_schmidt | devestate: done, it's a Atheros 6000 |
| 17:05.49 | stefan_schmidt | devestate: SDIO based with complete open drivers. (Moved it into firmware) |
| 17:05.53 | devestate | stefan: sweet thanks |
| 17:06.02 | gcb77 | aloril: was that a script answer or was it you? |
| 17:06.12 | stefan_schmidt | devestate: you are welcome |
| 17:06.25 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Like I was kidding :-) |
| 17:06.36 | pjz | later stefan_schmidt |
| 17:06.39 | alphaone | bye stefan_schmidt |
| 17:06.42 | wansti | later stefan |
| 17:07.37 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 17:07.55 | Elrond | Later stefan_schmidt |
| 17:07.56 | *** join/#openmoko bartel (n=bartel@osuosl/staff/bartel) |
| 17:08.23 | bartel | wireless on gta2? |
| 17:09.16 | Elrond | bartel - Yes, 99% likelihood. |
| 17:09.20 | Aria | bartel: AR6K based |
| 17:11.53 | Shoragan | huh? my neo just switched off it's screen, while i was using it |
| 17:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 17:13.25 | gcb77 | MY Neo is just frozen... nothing works... oh wait, its just a cardboard cutout :( |
| 17:13.44 | Elrond | gcb77 - ;o) |
| 17:15.12 | galexande | shoragan, that'll show you |
| 17:15.32 | Shoragan | :/ |
| 17:15.48 | don-o | lol@gcb77 |
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| 17:35.01 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 17:38.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Terminal]] [[Terminal/it]] [[Top_Panel/it]] [[Top_Panel]] [[Wishlist:Profiles]] [[Footer/it]] [[Footer]] [[User:Freak3dot]] [[Talk:Shipping_Notes]] [[Wishlist:Human_screening]] [[Picture_Viewer]] [[Picture_Viewer/it]] [[Wishlist:Tagging]] and other changes |
| 17:43.39 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@c-68-49-173-78.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 17:45.50 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 17:48.05 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko Monex (n=Monex@dslb-088-068-203-189.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:49.52 | don-o | win 6 |
| 17:53.24 | aloril2 | gcb77: it was scripted reply (about wifi) |
| 17:55.03 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 17:55.10 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 17:55.11 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: (last update 2007-07-10 13:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, a day 18:04:49 (8.753±3.0 days) (1728;246) |
| 17:56.25 | galexande | i want a ups trackingnumber |
| 17:56.47 | daMaestro | you won't get one until they get state side |
| 17:56.48 | woglinde | hihi |
| 17:57.21 | daMaestro | i would highly doubt they are going to china -> [ups] -> CA, US -> [ups] -> you |
| 17:57.23 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 17:57.49 | daMaestro | and say: here; tracking number for all the moko's [tracknum] .... and then your's [tacknum] |
| 17:58.00 | galexande | that would be awesome |
| 17:58.03 | daMaestro | lol |
| 17:58.16 | daMaestro | yea! damnit! ... i want the tracking number to all the mokos! |
| 17:58.19 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 17:58.29 | daMaestro | just so i can call UPS every day and ask them when i can get my moko |
| 17:58.34 | galexande | it seems like all we need is someone on the inside in china customs, and we could liberate the whole batch |
| 17:58.48 | daMaestro | are we really stuck at customs right now? |
| 17:58.56 | galexande | that was the news on saturday evening |
| 17:59.08 | galexande | i bet there won't be any more news until it's actually stateside |
| 17:59.39 | daMaestro | i wonder if they will tell us when the first 1,000 are out the door |
| 17:59.54 | daMaestro | aka, "look... you have spoken; we are out of them... making more now!" |
| 18:00.04 | daMaestro | "keep ordering!" |
| 18:00.06 | daMaestro | ;-D |
| 18:00.07 | jseghers | It would be cool to know how many have been ordered |
| 18:00.35 | jseghers | my company ordered 2 advances and one base :) |
| 18:00.38 | galexande | i don't envy whoever has to go down the list dealing with duplicates and so on |
| 18:00.53 | daMaestro | considering this is just a developer device... i think FIC is going to be able to point to openmoko and just flat out say "look, here... see here... this... that *bottom line* thing.... look it's right here" |
| 18:00.54 | daMaestro | lol |
| 18:01.03 | sannes | I guess next news will be getting "your order is sent, here is the tracking number".. |
| 18:01.41 | daMaestro | so, we should setup a community based "unbrick my device" service |
| 18:02.00 | daMaestro | i'm just at a loss as to what to do if i manage to brick my device.... and i didn't buy the advanced |
| 18:02.32 | jseghers | I'm sure that someone near you with an Advance would reflash it for you. |
| 18:02.35 | galexande | daemaestro, you'll have to mail it to someone or convince fic to ship you the jtag board |
| 18:02.41 | sannes | heh, if anyone in Norway needs unbricking I actually did order the advanced |
| 18:02.58 | daMaestro | galexande, see above comment ^ |
| 18:03.13 | jseghers | I'm in Seattle |
| 18:03.14 | galexande | damaestro, my plan (shhh i don't want anyone to steal my idea) is to not brick the device |
| 18:03.28 | daMaestro | aka... a list on the wiki with "i'm willing to unbrick yer device... email me [here]" |
| 18:03.35 | *** join/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-71-234-142-158.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 18:03.45 | daMaestro | galexande, same here |
| 18:03.46 | galexande | when HP/compaq started handhelds.org, they offered to unbrick any devices for free |
| 18:04.02 | galexande | not quite as cool as selling a jtag board, but a good start |
| 18:04.06 | jseghers | galexande: Is that your super-secret plan? the one we shouldn't tell anyone? :) |
| 18:04.17 | galexande | jseghers, SHH!! stop drawing attention |
| 18:04.45 | *** join/#openmoko keesj (n=keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl) |
| 18:05.11 | galexande | anyways, i never needed it for my ipaq, and compaq's bootldr is not nearly as cool as uboot. i'm sure maybe one of us will have trouble. |
| 18:05.35 | juco | #2903 |
| 18:05.49 | juco | I'm thinking I didn't make the first round cut |
| 18:05.50 | sannes | I think it would be very unlikely for normal users to actually brick it.. |
| 18:05.53 | daMaestro | galexande, well.. i might just have to break down and buy the jtag stuff |
| 18:06.00 | galexande | juco, sorry |
| 18:06.01 | daMaestro | sannes, i'm not normal |
| 18:06.02 | malsyned | Will it be possible to give OpenMoko the ability to interface with voicemail systems like the iPhone does, or is that interface undocumented and proprietary to Apple/AT&T? |
| 18:06.02 | daMaestro | lol |
| 18:06.13 | woglinde | lol |
| 18:06.15 | daMaestro | malsyned, sure (afaik) |
| 18:06.15 | sannes | all that has to work is the bootloader to be able to restore kernel + userspace |
| 18:06.16 | juco | but that gives you an idea of how many have been ordered |
| 18:06.27 | woglinde | jucoyes thanks |
| 18:06.31 | sannes | daMaestro: hehe :) me neither |
| 18:06.51 | malsyned | daMaestro: as far as you know, the interface is documented so that other phones will be able to use it? |
| 18:06.52 | galexande | malsyned, i think it's undocumented and proprietary, but it might be decipherable |
| 18:07.11 | galexande | i'll be excited if we can even get voicemail notification to work :) |
| 18:07.32 | mjr | hmh, around here we get notifications via sms... |
| 18:07.33 | malsyned | galexande: reverse-engineering it would be nice, but that still means it would only work with AT&T. |
| 18:07.47 | juco | I don't think it will work |
| 18:07.48 | jeddy3 | ok, that makes something like 1040 tickets yet |
| 18:08.01 | juco | as it is part of "iphone service" |
| 18:08.02 | daMaestro | i thought voicemail was a standard part of gsm? |
| 18:08.10 | juco | which is somehow different than regular data service |
| 18:08.22 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 18:08.27 | woglinde | jo zecke |
| 18:08.30 | zecke | hi |
| 18:08.32 | juco | the iphone downloads voicemails as digital files |
| 18:08.38 | daMaestro | meh, i expect att to be LAME about the moko.. so i'm going with tmobile i think |
| 18:09.15 | daMaestro | att stands to make a lot of money with the iPhone... so i doubt we will be able to "freely" hack open the cool voicemail browsing, etc |
| 18:09.21 | malsyned | in the US, will we have to get some cheap "free" phone with a plan and then transfer the SIM card? I'm actually pretty new to cell phones in general, but as I understand it nobody's interested in just selling you a SIM card in this country |
| 18:09.25 | juco | someone could get the neo 1973 approved as an at&t device |
| 18:09.35 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-87-136.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:09.52 | daMaestro | malsyned, you can get an activated sim from most stores |
| 18:09.54 | juco | which would keep them from blocking the imei range |
| 18:09.56 | gcb77 | some day... not only will you get notified of voice mail... it will do speech-to-text and show you the voicemail (or so I hope) |
| 18:09.57 | galexande | malsyned, yeah...some providers will sell a sim card...like O2 will give you a naked sim for $15, but tracfone will give you a sim and phone for $10 :) |
| 18:10.08 | galexande | at&t will sell you a phone as low as $20 |
| 18:10.20 | juco | or free with a contract |
| 18:10.22 | galexande | i think if you sign a contract, they'll give you a sim no problemo |
| 18:10.35 | galexande | gcb, you're insane |
| 18:10.35 | daMaestro | i'm going prepay all the way |
| 18:10.46 | mjr | free phones are never free |
| 18:10.50 | galexande | yeah at&t's prepay specifically says it does data, so i'm excitated. |
| 18:10.54 | daMaestro | and i am going to probe the network(s) -- as much as i can -- |
| 18:11.02 | daMaestro | galexande, yeah.... i'm ... umm |
| 18:11.05 | daMaestro | galexande, torn |
| 18:11.05 | malsyned | AT&T and T-Mobile are the only nation-wide GSM providers in the US, right? |
| 18:11.12 | daMaestro | malsyned, basically.. |
| 18:11.17 | daMaestro | malsyned, all the others are just rebrands |
| 18:11.36 | daMaestro | galexande, $0.01/KB right? |
| 18:11.56 | galexande | damaestro, yeah, or $20/mo for unlimited |
| 18:12.04 | daMaestro | galexande, on prepay? |
| 18:12.15 | galexande | damaestro, they have two types of prepay...by the minute and by the month |
| 18:12.21 | mjr | that's a decent price for unlimited |
| 18:12.33 | daMaestro | galexande, this is the blackberry inet? |
| 18:12.44 | daMaestro | galexande, yea.. where you pay like $1/day when you actually use your phone? |
| 18:12.46 | malsyned | galexande: that's AT&T you're talking about? |
| 18:12.48 | juco | you have to pay $30/month to get the $20/month unlimited data |
| 18:12.50 | daMaestro | malsyned, yes |
| 18:12.54 | galexande | for $30/mo you get 200 minutes and discounted minute rate, for $20/mo you get unlimited data |
| 18:12.54 | malsyned | huh. |
| 18:12.56 | malsyned | cool |
| 18:13.17 | daMaestro | ok.. yeah.. wiki page. it seems like others have been reading anything they can find on the actual prepay plans out there |
| 18:13.28 | daMaestro | most of the "hip" prepay services are cdma in the states |
| 18:13.44 | daMaestro | aka.. the carriers that are like: "sure... use the internet... why do we care, it's not our network" |
| 18:13.44 | daMaestro | lol |
| 18:13.59 | galexande | yeah, none of the gsm ones offer anything more than the choice between $20 for 150 minutes or $40 for 300 minutes |
| 18:14.00 | galexande | what variety! |
| 18:14.24 | daMaestro | well.. go with the $100 prepay account with tmobile if you go tmobile |
| 18:14.36 | galexande | there's a sprint rebrand that offers basically the iphone plans, but a little cheaper |
| 18:15.16 | daMaestro | my understanding is that you can get WAP access for $5.95/m ... the 1000 minutes are valid for a year.. and with your WAP account you can access one of their proxy servers and tunnel to your own private proxy server ... and thus have full internet |
| 18:15.31 | galexande | heh, that's crazy |
| 18:15.33 | woglinde | damaestro hihi |
| 18:15.36 | galexande | i'd rather just get a real unlimited data plan, i think |
| 18:15.40 | daMaestro | hello woglinde |
| 18:15.49 | malsyned | daMaestro: those rebranded networks are mostly just Verizon, right? |
| 18:15.54 | woglinde | hm wap needs dns too? |
| 18:15.55 | daMaestro | verizon and sprint |
| 18:16.04 | daMaestro | which are both cdma |
| 18:16.06 | woglinde | than you can always tunnel the dns |
| 18:16.08 | daMaestro | woglinde, yes |
| 18:16.14 | woglinde | hihi |
| 18:16.16 | galexande | woglinde, i think wap essentially tunnels entire HTTP requests |
| 18:16.20 | galexande | and the proxy is responsible for name lookup |
| 18:16.25 | malsyned | how is package management handled in OpenMoko? |
| 18:16.27 | daMaestro | woglinde, correct... you basically runnel *everything* to your proxy (SOCKS( |
| 18:16.30 | galexande | malsyned, openembedded.org |
| 18:16.32 | daMaestro | hmm s/(/)/ |
| 18:16.34 | woglinde | malsyned ipkg |
| 18:16.49 | daMaestro | tunnel* |
| 18:16.52 | daMaestro | grr |
| 18:17.22 | malsyned | so the Application Manager (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Application_Manager) would interface with ipkg? |
| 18:17.47 | woglinde | hm 2 or 4 year ago you could trick out some providers in germany to get internet acces for nothing |
| 18:17.57 | woglinde | malsyned yes frontend |
| 18:18.40 | galexande | so, why are we still using scrollbars |
| 18:18.58 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@77.47.0.11.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 18:19.13 | galexande | as i see it instead of GtkList we should be using a list where if you click on an item, that's button 1. if you drag left, that's button 2, drag right = button3, drag up/down = scroll whole list |
| 18:19.39 | malsyned | does that have some kind of idea of "applications" vs "Packages" like the Ubuntu Add/Remove Applications program? I doubt end-users will want to scroll through a big list of libraries they've never heard of just to uninstall a game they were trying out. |
| 18:19.56 | galexande | i mean, thhis is a 283dpi screen, your typical 20-pixel-wide scrollbars are needle-tiny. i've watched video of the devs fumbling with their styluses... |
| 18:20.08 | malsyned | galexande: and to hell with Drag & Drop? |
| 18:20.25 | woglinde | malsyned ipkg is derivated from dpkg |
| 18:20.33 | galexande | malsyned, look at Filter Menu in the wiki |
| 18:21.02 | galexande | malsyned, does drag and drop make any sense on a phone interface? |
| 18:21.09 | galexande | on a tiny-tiny screen |
| 18:21.40 | galexande | i mean, there's no trashcan in the corner to drag an applicaiton to, from the application list |
| 18:21.56 | galexande | in other words, does the iphone have drag and drop? (for reference, os x uses drag and drop for *everything*() |
| 18:22.00 | jedix | think of how many accidental deletes there would be |
| 18:22.14 | galexande | well, drag-left is the iphone way to delete, it would pop up a modal yes/no |
| 18:22.20 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 18:22.33 | galexande | the only specific feature we're giving up is highlighting more than one entry, but in apps where that's really useful we could make checkboxes |
| 18:23.14 | galexande | i would have drag-right pop up a menu of options, and center-click just do the default action ("dial" for address book, info/select for app manager) |
| 18:23.21 | jeddy3 | i certainly wouldn't miss drag & drop, scrolling makes much more sense |
| 18:23.58 | galexande | i just saw this video of sean moss-pultz holding a phone...and maybe he has big hands, but the screen looks insanely tiny |
| 18:24.08 | galexande | i can barely use scrollbars on my 3.5" diagonal ipaq screen |
| 18:24.26 | *** join/#openmoko davi (n=davi@80.30.83.239) |
| 18:24.37 | flingpoo | Everyone wants a tiny phone with a giant screen. |
| 18:24.48 | galexande | i just want a tiny-screen realistic UI :) |
| 18:25.13 | galexande | there are just so many totally useless GUI widgets on these application mockups |
| 18:25.38 | daMaestro | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Carriers |
| 18:25.44 | daMaestro | ok... please add your information there. |
| 18:26.06 | daMaestro | i'll work to add the information i know tonight; i'm technically at work right now |
| 18:26.17 | galexande | me too |
| 18:26.24 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-efc6cc5ad46537ae) |
| 18:26.32 | devestate | that makes three of us... :P |
| 18:27.00 | galexande | i remember how frustrated i was when matchbox got so extended, but now i'm glad the restructuring got it into a cool project like this |
| 18:27.23 | malsyned | galexande: I don't know if D&D makes sense on a phone interface, I just wanted to point out that it would be lost if we give dragging over to scrolling. just to take peoples' temperature. |
| 18:27.42 | galexande | malsyned, yeah, i guess we do need to be aware of what functionality we're giving up |
| 18:27.55 | galexande | but i'm really excited at making a totally gutted UI, with none of the draggy things we're used to |
| 18:28.19 | galexande | the only reason openembedded hasn't already done this is probably that most of those devices have D-pads, so scrollies are still managable |
| 18:28.24 | jseghers | One touchpad UI gesture that is used on a lot of laptops is if you drag vertically on the right edge of the pad/screen, it scrolls. Elsewhere it moves the pointer. |
| 18:28.27 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 18:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:28.38 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan_ (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 18:28.50 | galexande | jseghers, heh another appleism :) |
| 18:28.59 | malsyned | I rarely see people use D&D even on PCs, so probably most people wouldn't even know they were missing it. I don't know if there are places where it makes sense on smartphones, but I wonder whether we'll regret having given it up in 10 years when the devices we're using are basically all-screen and have applications where D&D would be a win. |
| 18:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko uber_mort (n=untwiste@c-67-163-203-39.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 18:29.32 | jseghers | galexande... I've only ever seen it on PC's... but then I don't use Macs... so I don't know where it showed up first. |
| 18:29.34 | galexande | i'm not worried, i've been continually impressed and angered by the open source community's willingness to reinvent itself every other year |
| 18:29.48 | galexande | so we should feel confident to make mistakes that make it good on the neo, at the cost of later extensibility. |
| 18:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=Wayne@e179098085.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:30.17 | malsyned | galexande: and if it does turn out to be a mistake, we can blame apple for doing it first :P |
| 18:30.31 | galexande | smart |
| 18:30.47 | jseghers | that's the spirit! :) |
| 18:30.57 | jeddy3 | galexande, it's not even used on macs... |
| 18:31.37 | malsyned | jeddy3: what, D&D? I use it all the time on my mac. The officially-sanctioned method of installing applications includes a D&D step. |
| 18:32.08 | jeddy3 | malsyned, no, scrolling on the side of touchbar |
| 18:32.32 | jeddy3 | apple use the two-finger-scroll...on recent macs anyway |
| 18:32.34 | malsyned | oh. yeah, I don't think macs do that. Mac laptops have two-finger scrolling since the 2nd-to-last gen Powerbooks. |
| 18:33.01 | malsyned | scrolling on the side of the trackpad is a PC laptop thing. |
| 18:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:33.06 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 18:34.27 | galexande | well, i was introduced to it on the mac...i bought the last single-touch ibook |
| 18:34.46 | jeddy3 | either scrolling by dragging side of moko screen, or simply scrolling by dragging up/down anywhere on screen would be sensible i think... |
| 18:35.07 | malsyned | galexande: do you have to turn that on? my brother has one of those and I thought he was out of luck for trackpad scrolling. |
| 18:35.25 | galexande | malsyned, i don't know. i just remember reading about it when i was looking for things to improve about my mac :) |
| 18:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-112-173.w90-34.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:37.17 | malsyned | galexande: k. I'll play with it sometime. thanks for bringing it up though, I had no idea. |
| 18:37.56 | malsyned | does the scroll indicator on the right of the OpenMoko display operate as a draggable widget right now? |
| 18:38.36 | jeddy3 | maybe dragging some distance to scroll, to let you press buttons and prevent you from scrolling by mistake, would be sensible |
| 18:38.38 | galexande | malsyned, http://www.ragingmenace.com/software/sidetrack/index.html |
| 18:39.13 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 18:39.20 | galexande | i enjoy putting an idea out that i've thought about and seeing other people go through the same thoughts :) |
| 18:39.34 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:39.37 | galexande | it gives me hope that if i try to check it into svn, it might fly |
| 18:39.49 | happycube | http://news.yahoo.com/s/usatoday/20070710/tc_usatoday/newrulescouldrockwirelessworld;_ylt=An5cgjylvXnoY0k6HpGF7dLMWM0F |
| 18:40.22 | dcordes | finnaly you gave the website a new design |
| 18:40.22 | *** join/#openmoko roler (n=roler@adsl-75-31-21-97.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:40.33 | malsyned | Isn't that the same spectrum that Google is rumored to be planning to bid for? |
| 18:40.40 | dcordes | congratulations :) |
| 18:40.56 | happycube | i bet *everyone* is going to bid on it |
| 18:41.20 | happycube | except maybe verizon now. ;) |
| 18:41.25 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 18:41.41 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 18:43.55 | happycube | :) |
| 18:43.58 | galexande | maybe for $100 you could get 1Hz out of the spectrum :) |
| 18:44.21 | roler | I can't wait for revison 2 of openmoko |
| 18:44.26 | roler | been watching it for a while |
| 18:44.39 | don-o | "mark" |
| 18:44.46 | roler | will be tough to see what I want. iphone v2 (iphone v1 sucks) or openmoko 2 |
| 18:45.09 | gcb77 | Think https://www.bountysource.com/ would be a good idea for moko features? |
| 18:45.38 | galexande | gcb, you want to fund the bounties? |
| 18:46.34 | gcb77 | galexande: I'm sure there's certain features I'd be willing to put up $ for |
| 18:46.59 | gcb77 | I'd be happy to cash in for adding some features too |
| 18:47.14 | galexande | well then i'll be interested in your earfull when i get my development environment together :) |
| 18:48.16 | dcordes | where can I browser the current tree? |
| 18:48.24 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 18:48.26 | don-o | gcb77: woah, the website is an interesting concept. |
| 18:48.33 | woglinde | dcordes look at wiki? |
| 18:48.34 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 18:48.49 | zilt | |
| 18:48.58 | gcb77 | Has anyone tried a VMWare (or or other) setup for the dev environment? |
| 18:49.13 | SpeedEvil | qemu |
| 18:49.16 | woglinde | gcb77 look at wiki |
| 18:49.16 | SpeedEvil | commonly |
| 18:49.26 | galexande | dcordes, http://svn.openmoko.org/ |
| 18:49.33 | don-o | gcb77: ive built openmoko on parallels -> ubuntu |
| 18:49.52 | gcb77 | don-o: cool, does it work well? |
| 18:49.56 | galexande | gcb, it shouldn't care too much what sort of host it's running on |
| 18:50.13 | ferric | don-o: you can get the openembedded crosscompiler/toolchain working on os x, yes? |
| 18:50.26 | gcb77 | lol, I've been trying to get it running on openSuSE 10.2 |
| 18:50.30 | gcb77 | for the last 2 weeks |
| 18:50.47 | don-o | ferric: ive heard that but im more comfortable with ubuntu :) |
| 18:50.59 | galexande | ferric, it's certainly possible but it has a lot of dependencies on tools you would probably have to manually hunt down and install on os x |
| 18:51.00 | ferric | you're running parallels on windows? |
| 18:51.10 | ferric | galexande: thought as much |
| 18:51.11 | gcb77 | I finally gave in and I installed Ubuntu in VMWare, and now I'm setting up the makefile |
| 18:51.22 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=Miranda@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 18:51.30 | don-o | ferric: os x -> parallels -> ubuntu -> qemu -> openmoko. hows that for virtualization. :) |
| 18:51.44 | ferric | don-o: fucked up. :-) |
| 18:52.01 | uber_mort | why not just Q -> openmoko? |
| 18:52.18 | dcordes | galexande, I'm looking for the full oe tree |
| 18:52.31 | dcordes | with all packages that can be built for om |
| 18:52.46 | galexande | dcordes, most of the rest is on openembedded.org somewhere |
| 18:53.15 | dcordes | galexande, so I can build all OE recipes for OM? |
| 18:53.26 | galexande | dcordes, sorry i don't know :) |
| 18:53.39 | galexande | i'm still trying to figure out if openembedded is the new name of 'familiar' :) |
| 18:54.11 | dcordes | familiar is a distro for handhelds |
| 18:54.22 | dcordes | obsolete one |
| 18:54.33 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 18:54.42 | galexande | ah, debian -> familiar, debian -> openzaurus, openzaurus -> openembedded, openembedded -> openmoko |
| 18:54.42 | woglinde | galexande no |
| 18:54.42 | galexande | family tree |
| 18:54.55 | dcordes | ? |
| 18:55.36 | woglinde | galexande not really |
| 18:55.44 | galexande | i still run familiar :) |
| 18:55.48 | dcordes | :-( |
| 18:55.57 | woglinde | openembedded is a repository with recipes |
| 18:55.59 | dcordes | galexande, on what? |
| 18:56.07 | woglinde | that you can build with bitbake |
| 18:56.14 | woglinde | into serval distributions |
| 18:56.23 | galexande | ipaq h3765 circa 2002 |
| 18:56.46 | ferric | i remember hacking the ipaq using familiar 2 years ago, when the touchscreen wouldn't work and the wifi chipset kep dying |
| 18:56.48 | dcordes | galexande, you should switch to angstrom. my personal recommendation. |
| 18:57.02 | galexande | just upgrading to the "new" version of familiar is far more excitement than i desire |
| 18:57.17 | galexande | i don't have much use for a palmtop without SD :) |
| 18:57.21 | ferric | like the h5555 came out and it was all cool |
| 18:57.49 | malsyned | does the p1 that just got released on the neo dev release contain everything that the roadmap here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Applications said it would? |
| 18:58.19 | galexande | question = user-mode software? answer = no. |
| 18:58.36 | woglinde | malsyned I fear no |
| 18:58.39 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A86ADD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko Aria_ (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 18:59.06 | woglinde | malsyned from what I see it is btw. phase 0 and phase1 |
| 19:00.00 | galexande | really, i think that palmtops should act more like palmos than like X, even with matchbox |
| 19:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 19:00.26 | dcordes | galexande, use opie then |
| 19:00.32 | mjr | X doesn't act, even with matchbox |
| 19:00.37 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AD7FD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:00.39 | galexande | like, there should be no distinguishing between switch-to-appX and launch-appX |
| 19:00.56 | ferric | has anyone used the trolltech greenphone here? |
| 19:01.08 | galexande | nah, i am a developer so i'm gonna get used to the awful UI, i'm just saying, if we want to make the best smartphone :) |
| 19:01.09 | woglinde | ferric yes |
| 19:01.14 | ferric | woglinde: review? |
| 19:01.33 | *** join/#openmoko cassidy_ (n=cassidy@158.93-241-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:01.38 | woglinde | ferric it works nice |
| 19:01.46 | woglinde | do phone calls sms all the stuff |
| 19:01.55 | ferric | but it isn't as open as the neo? |
| 19:02.00 | ferric | (and no touchscreen) |
| 19:02.00 | woglinde | ferric right |
| 19:02.06 | woglinde | it has touchscreen |
| 19:02.23 | ferric | ah |
| 19:02.29 | dcordes | it has qt :/ |
| 19:02.40 | ferric | i didn't even hear as much about the greenphone and its been out for a while |
| 19:02.48 | woglinde | but today the battery was really hot and I dont know why |
| 19:02.56 | ferric | qt is much nicer than gtk as a development platform, from a licensing perspective... dunno. |
| 19:03.38 | woglinde | hm damn it |
| 19:03.42 | woglinde | now it dont turn on |
| 19:04.01 | woglinde | ah |
| 19:04.02 | woglinde | now |
| 19:04.04 | woglinde | puh |
| 19:04.06 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: got a spare battery? |
| 19:04.07 | dcordes | I don't like the colour |
| 19:04.21 | *** join/#openmoko MrKeuner (n=kudo@unaffiliated/mrkeuner) |
| 19:04.29 | woglinde | speedevil no |
| 19:04.31 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: Is this a P1 you have? |
| 19:04.45 | woglinde | speedevil a phase1 greenphone? |
| 19:04.50 | woglinde | *g* |
| 19:04.50 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: oh |
| 19:05.04 | guerby | no confirmation email after 2 days and no answer from sales@openmoko after one day, I guess no P1 for me :/ |
| 19:05.05 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: you probably shouldn't post about that on the hardware mailing list :) |
| 19:05.27 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: oh - on reflection, you should prolly mail TT about it. Hot battery = bad. |
| 19:05.31 | woglinde | speedevil about what? |
| 19:05.45 | woglinde | the neo battery gots hot too |
| 19:05.59 | SpeedEvil | depends how hot you mean. |
| 19:06.03 | woglinde | yeah |
| 19:06.13 | woglinde | greenphone was hotter |
| 19:06.45 | ferric | guerby: you'll get yours, they're probably slammed with new order |
| 19:06.46 | ferric | s |
| 19:07.09 | dcordes | I think I will get rather a neo than a greenphone because I don't like hot batteries |
| 19:07.11 | dcordes | :) |
| 19:07.13 | galexande | they're way past overloaded with new orders |
| 19:07.18 | guerby | ferric, I ordered right at the beginning, all the others got their confirmation email |
| 19:07.28 | MrKeuner | how does the sales go? |
| 19:07.29 | guerby | (sunday night) |
| 19:07.30 | ferric | guerby: the rt confirmation email? |
| 19:07.44 | guerby | ferric, yes didn't get it (so no order number) |
| 19:07.52 | woglinde | mrkeuner better than I thought |
| 19:07.55 | ferric | guerby: weird, i ordered last night and got it |
| 19:08.10 | guerby | ferric, that's why I'm worried :)* |
| 19:08.36 | ferric | yeah... well, they have capacity |
| 19:08.41 | ferric | (apparently) |
| 19:09.22 | juco | capacity? |
| 19:09.53 | dcordes | juco, maybe he means that as in there are enough phones for many poeple that want one |
| 19:10.06 | galexande | i don't think there are :) |
| 19:10.13 | juco | that would be nice, but I thought there were only 1000 produced |
| 19:10.43 | galexande | i mean, i'm sure some of the RT #s are duplicates or unrelated miscellany |
| 19:10.50 | dcordes | 1000 people are many :-) imo |
| 19:10.56 | malsyned | the debug board that comes with the Advanced kit is all that's needed to program the neo? (besides a PC and a Neo) |
| 19:10.59 | galexande | but openmoko got slashdotted all day long, i'm sure there are a lot of orders |
| 19:11.11 | juco | malsyned, the board isn't needed |
| 19:11.47 | galexande | malsyned, you don't need the debug board unless you break uboot, or need jtag for some other reason (hardware/driver dev) |
| 19:14.10 | malsyned | if I've got an AVR jtag debugger that I use on their ATmega chips, is it just a matter of wiring it to the right points on the Neo board, or is it an architecture-specific sort of thing even though they're both called "jtag"? |
| 19:15.04 | bmk789 | will AGPS offer similar functionality as any other GPS unit? |
| 19:15.17 | Aria | Yes |
| 19:15.39 | Aria | AGPS just has the ability to quickstart with data of the 'net |
| 19:15.50 | Aria | Regular GPS has to wait for the satellite loop to finish downloading to it |
| 19:16.01 | bmk789 | ah, thanks |
| 19:16.11 | mjr | well, in this case AGPS means that |
| 19:16.23 | mjr | you may find other more restricted meanings about also :] |
| 19:16.48 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 19:17.14 | SpeedEvil | I've fixed the wikipedia article, so it's more accurate :) |
| 19:17.47 | bmk789 | so say a google maps application could go straight to the current location? |
| 19:17.51 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 19:17.57 | SpeedEvil | Given a network connection. |
| 19:18.28 | bmk789 | ok maybe its time for me to learn some programming |
| 19:18.29 | wansti | argh! stupid acoustic feedback! :-/ |
| 19:19.27 | alphaone | wansti: What's the matter? |
| 19:20.06 | FuzzyCat | Aria: does that mean if it can't dl with quickstart it'll fall back ? |
| 19:20.15 | *** join/#openmoko kdean06 (n=kdean06@fsf/member/kdean06) |
| 19:20.16 | SpeedEvil | FuzzyCat: yes |
| 19:20.20 | wansti | alphaone: dropped the mic too close to my speakers and hurt my ears :-) |
| 19:20.21 | FuzzyCat | ahh good |
| 19:20.23 | SpeedEvil | FuzzyCat: see AGPS on the wiki |
| 19:20.24 | Aria | Yes |
| 19:20.35 | SpeedEvil | Or http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AGPS |
| 19:21.00 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 19:21.04 | SpeedEvil | 11th floor is for the under 10s? |
| 19:21.06 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 19:21.12 | bmk789 | how does it compare to traditional GPS, power consumption-wise? |
| 19:21.18 | FuzzyCat | ta |
| 19:21.28 | SpeedEvil | It's fairly low power. |
| 19:21.56 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D809C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:21.57 | alphaone | wansti: You know my alarm sound has to be painful. Otherwise I wont wake up :-) |
| 19:22.57 | ferric | so no one knows if it's sold out, then? |
| 19:23.08 | wansti | alphaone: should i record it for you? :-P |
| 19:23.23 | bmk789 | C is a good place to start for getting into openmoko development, right? |
| 19:23.29 | wansti | "acoustic feedback wakeup call" |
| 19:23.48 | ferric | bmk789: yes, but embedded programming is like writing super-efficient c |
| 19:23.59 | SpeedEvil | This is not embedded. |
| 19:24.04 | SpeedEvil | The Neo is a desktop. |
| 19:24.07 | galexande | uh, we're using gtk, we're hardly "super-efficient." Just learn gtk. |
| 19:24.09 | SpeedEvil | It's just a bit smaller. |
| 19:24.18 | alphaone | wansti: :-) |
| 19:24.21 | woglinde | mrkeuner seems the full first marge is s |
| 19:24.23 | woglinde | ups |
| 19:24.24 | woglinde | re |
| 19:24.25 | ferric | lol galexande |
| 19:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko wolog (n=wolog@brusc.guerrier.com) |
| 19:24.52 | galexande | heh |
| 19:31.40 | Husare | hello, i have a question, the gta02 will get 2 3d acceleartion sensors, right? |
| 19:31.50 | ferric | Husare: that's what theys ay |
| 19:32.22 | cjb | accelerometers, yes. |
| 19:33.00 | SpeedEvil | Husare: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals |
| 19:33.33 | Husare | SpeedEvil, do you know how accurate they are? |
| 19:33.58 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCB43.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:36.19 | SpeedEvil | Husare: if it's the ones mentioned on the mailing list - very bad. |
| 19:36.29 | SpeedEvil | If it's the best in class, then still quite bad. |
| 19:36.41 | SpeedEvil | The above page gives some limits. |
| 19:36.52 | *** join/#openmoko DeVol (n=devol@dD5E041D2.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:37.49 | Husare | hmm, i thought it could help the gps more accuracy |
| 19:38.01 | Husare | get more accuracy |
| 19:38.12 | buz | anyone tried nav4all.com? |
| 19:38.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware/ru]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Carriers]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Carriers/TMobile]] [[Carriers/ATT]] [[Profiles_%28Application%29]] [[Profiles_%28Application%29/it]] and other changes |
| 19:38.13 | SpeedEvil | Not really. |
| 19:38.25 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-555b71e62babb1ac) |
| 19:38.38 | Husare | *sigh* a dream is gone |
| 19:38.40 | Husare | :D |
| 19:38.51 | SpeedEvil | For _short_ periods, in some cases, yes, if it's got the best available accels. |
| 19:39.05 | SpeedEvil | For the ones mentioned on the mailing list - basically no. |
| 19:39.38 | mitsuhiko | use case for the current accels? |
| 19:39.56 | *** join/#openmoko dave_tt (n=dave_tt@port-212-202-4-247.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:40.04 | SpeedEvil | Basically, they can sense taps on the case. |
| 19:40.15 | SpeedEvil | They can sense the direction of down. |
| 19:40.26 | SpeedEvil | That's about it. |
| 19:40.29 | *** join/#openmoko lynx__ (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 19:41.12 | Husare | mitsuhiko, usecase: if you turn it in lndscape, the screen will adopt, or so. |
| 19:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 19:41.41 | mitsuhiko | well yes, but how accurate are they? |
| 19:41.50 | Husare | ehm, adapt i have meant |
| 19:41.57 | mitsuhiko | can they track the tilting of the screen? |
| 19:42.01 | mitsuhiko | for map navigation or something |
| 19:42.13 | kdean06 | I just read that a libre gpsd in the US violates a munitions law... If I'm buying the Neo1973 PURELY for hte sake of having a libre phone, does that mean I can't make use of these GPS? |
| 19:42.13 | high-rez | http://www.willitblend.com/videos.aspx?type=unsafe&video=iphone |
| 19:42.48 | galexande | kdean, fic has no interest in whether you violate the law. the gpsd built into the neo is just closed enough to not violate the law |
| 19:43.01 | galexande | mitsuhiko, yes, that affects the direction of down |
| 19:43.26 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 19:43.41 | SpeedEvil | mitsuhiko: they can accurately determine where down is. Tehy cannot detect roll around the "down" axis. |
| 19:43.58 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 19:44.05 | SpeedEvil | mitsuhiko: so if you spin round in an office chair then it won't pick up anything. |
| 19:44.29 | kdean06 | galexande, But the gpsd on the neo IS restricted, and replacing it with a libre implimentation WOULD be a violation of the law? |
| 19:44.30 | mitsuhiko | hmm |
| 19:44.39 | galexande | well, it'll pick up the centripetal force of teh circle |
| 19:44.48 | kdean06 | This is confirmed, not speculation? |
| 19:44.58 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: read the AGPS page on the wiki |
| 19:45.00 | galexande | kdean, the gpsd on the neo is restricted, but i don't know about libre gpsd. |
| 19:45.14 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: It's arms-control legislation. Which is wacky, but taken very seriously. |
| 19:45.38 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: GPS is defined right next to nuclear weapons test equipment in the relevant law. |
| 19:45.39 | thomasg | SpeedEvil, so thats mostly a US problematic? |
| 19:45.51 | thomasg | *mainly |
| 19:45.55 | mjr | kdean06, don't know of the validity of the ITAR interpretations, but you'd be in trouble at most if you travel across the US border with a Neo and the free gpsd |
| 19:46.00 | SpeedEvil | Basically means that FIC can't sell them into the US without a DOD license. |
| 19:46.05 | delinka | because GPS was once only a military application. and still has military application. |
| 19:46.13 | SpeedEvil | (which they would not get) |
| 19:46.55 | mjr | kdean06, replacing the gpsd with a free version and not traveling across the US border would be fine, however |
| 19:47.30 | kdean06 | mjr, I assume you mean "being in US controlled territory". I'm already "across" the border. :) |
| 19:47.47 | wansti | how's this for a startup sound? :-) http://wansti.homelinux.net/files/tmp/wakeup.ogg |
| 19:48.23 | mjr | kdean06, no, but I might mean transitioning between us- and non-us-controlled territory |
| 19:48.54 | mjr | kdean06, afaik you'd be fine if you install the software in the US, as long as you don't then export the combo |
| 19:49.00 | mjr | but IANAL etc |
| 19:49.08 | galexande | you'll be fine so long as you don't tell anyone |
| 19:49.14 | kdean06 | Has the FIC lawers issued a statement? |
| 19:49.25 | galexande | kdean, fic will definitely not be doing the libre gpsd |
| 19:49.50 | kdean06 | No, understandable. But the product is worthless to me if it's not libre and legal. |
| 19:49.54 | delinka | I can imagine US airport security saying "You'll need to provide us with a binary dump of your cellphone firmware before you can board the plane" |
| 19:50.17 | daMaestro | no, they'll just take it |
| 19:50.19 | galexande | bummer, i can't build openmoko-dialer because i'm missing build/tmp/staging/arm-linux/bin/dbus-binding-tool |
| 19:50.56 | kdean06 | Thanks for the input guys. :) I'll pursue this a bit more and see if it's not a huge waste of money for me. :) |
| 19:51.15 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: it's exactly the same case as any GPS device. |
| 19:51.43 | SpeedEvil | kdean06: they are _all_ like this - and in principle if you open-source the GPS microcontroller, you might hit this issue. |
| 19:51.59 | SpeedEvil | It's just that on may devices it's on another core. |
| 19:52.38 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=shark@59.176.111.177) |
| 19:53.00 | empty_mind | hello moko |
| 19:53.08 | empty_mind | any devices left ? |
| 19:53.22 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-23-24.net.novis.pt) |
| 19:53.24 | SpeedEvil | They may all be sold - but there will be another run along soon. |
| 19:53.34 | kdean06 | SpeedEvil, I understand that. I don't own a GPS device yet, and if I can't have a legal and libre one, I'll be campaigning until I can. :( |
| 19:53.39 | empty_mind | hmmm |
| 19:54.01 | SpeedEvil | You do realise that the GSM module inside the phone is not opensource either? |
| 19:54.17 | SpeedEvil | And no phone is likely to ship with an opensource GSM modem ever? |
| 19:54.31 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@Yebe0.y.pppool.de) |
| 19:54.48 | empty_mind | why no mobile ever with open GSM module ? |
| 19:55.29 | SpeedEvil | Because in many countries it's illegal to own. At least after teh first person misuses it. |
| 19:55.47 | SpeedEvil | Consider someone doing phone-phone comms without the tower int eh phone frequency band. |
| 19:55.55 | mjr | kdean06, again, it should be possible to legally use a libre gpsd also inside the developing nation of the US, if you don't export it |
| 19:55.57 | SpeedEvil | They will jam _large_ areas. |
| 19:56.25 | SpeedEvil | GSM and all phone systems work because they can coordinate to have all transmitters non-interfering. |
| 19:56.42 | SpeedEvil | When you stop doing that, ranges plummet. |
| 19:56.47 | SpeedEvil | Even in the absence of malice. |
| 19:57.27 | high-rez | Yeah, if you don't have the network dictating tdm timing and timeslot sizes youre sortta hosed. |
| 19:58.04 | thomasg | willitblend rocks :) |
| 19:58.16 | don-o | thomasg: going to blend a neo? |
| 19:58.37 | thomasg | guess not |
| 19:59.00 | thomasg | maybe I should have imported a blendtec device, too :) |
| 19:59.37 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
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| 20:06.12 | malsyned | How is transparency done on OpenMoko? with the Composite extension? |
| 20:06.36 | delinka | does the actual phone go through the same sloooooooow boot process that the emulator does? I expected emulation slowness, but this thing takes so long, I'm worred about the end user experience |
| 20:06.39 | dtx | If I get the Neo Advanced will the debug board work with the Neo Base coming out in October? |
| 20:06.40 | aloril | dtx: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:06.49 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
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| 20:11.54 | zecke | malsyned: XComposite doesn't really perform. if you see some sort of transparency it is faked |
| 20:12.19 | Kensan | delinka: yes, it takes close to 2 minutes to boot. Things will get better once the init-process gets optimized (upstart, see bugs #9,12). Also suspend will make things easier. |
| 20:12.49 | Husare | in the wiki for the accelerometer ii read "Roll about the 'down' axis cannot" as SpeedEvil mentioned. i think it is because the 2 acc.meters are in line with the down axis. an if not, the lever for the momentum would be too small, right? |
| 20:14.05 | Husare | and of course the accuracy is a factor |
| 20:14.18 | malsyned | zecke: there's transparency all over the screenshots on the wiki. are those all just mock-ups? also, will XComposite be more viable in the GTA02 because of the 3D hardware? |
| 20:15.26 | zecke | malsyned: most of the are sadly only mockups. From the specs that one can see GTA02 could be different and is promising |
| 20:15.37 | paulproteus | So does anyone who has a phone have a minute to help me out? |
| 20:16.07 | paulproteus | I plug it into USB with the battery in (but the front cover off), and it doesn't turn on, but maybe it's just out of power. |
| 20:16.15 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 20:16.39 | zecke | paulproteus: you press longer than 5 seconds? |
| 20:17.41 | paulproteus | I just tried holding it down for 5 seconds and releasing, but the screen doesn't turn on and it doesn't show in lsusb. |
| 20:18.13 | woglinde | plauproteus hm try another computer if you have |
| 20:18.23 | woglinde | I have a hp which dont charge the moko too |
| 20:18.25 | paulproteus | I do have the debug board, if that can help. |
| 20:18.33 | paulproteus | Hmm, good point woglinde, this is a Dell front port. |
| 20:18.39 | woglinde | hm |
| 20:18.40 | paulproteus | I heard that if I upgrade the software, I'm likely to have more success across the board. |
| 20:18.45 | woglinde | try the back ones |
| 20:18.47 | paulproteus | This is a 2007-04-20 V4. |
| 20:18.49 | woglinde | or the charger |
| 20:18.57 | woglinde | which came with the package |
| 20:19.08 | woglinde | wait half an hour |
| 20:19.13 | woglinde | if this dont works |
| 20:19.22 | woglinde | but the battery out for 10 seconds |
| 20:19.26 | woglinde | and try again |
| 20:20.17 | paulproteus | Pulling out the battery and putting it back in just caused the screen to go full-white. |
| 20:20.46 | woglinde | hm did you pull the usb before? |
| 20:20.47 | paulproteus | Oh, and now the screen seems to be off again. |
| 20:21.25 | paulproteus | woglinde, What I did in order was unplug front USB, plug into back USB, then check if holding power for 10s made something interesting happen. |
| 20:21.40 | woglinde | hehe okay |
| 20:21.46 | woglinde | let it load a while |
| 20:21.50 | paulproteus | Nothing interesting, so then I removed the battery for 5s while USB was still connected and then on re-inserting the battery the screen went white. |
| 20:21.59 | woglinde | args |
| 20:22.00 | paulproteus | Now it's black again and doesn't appear to be backlit, as I said. |
| 20:22.02 | woglinde | dont di this |
| 20:22.14 | woglinde | pull the usb befor removing battery |
| 20:22.20 | paulproteus | Okay, you got it. |
| 20:23.32 | dtx | Do you guys know if I get the Neo Advanced with debug board, will this debug board work if I get the Neo Base GTA02? |
| 20:23.49 | woglinde | dtx maybee |
| 20:24.17 | dtx | hmmm |
| 20:24.32 | paulproteus | woglinde, This time it never turned on at all. |
| 20:24.40 | paulproteus | As evidenced by the lack of backlight on the LCD. |
| 20:24.44 | happycube | i think debug v2 will work on gta02 - jtag is not processor specific |
| 20:24.58 | woglinde | happycube hm yes but connector |
| 20:25.16 | delinka | gah! my emulator is stuck asking me to calibrate the screen - how many times will the crosshairs run around the screen before it stops asking me? |
| 20:25.18 | happycube | it'd be more work to change the connector and make a new debug board |
| 20:26.17 | dtx | That's how I figured, it would work |
| 20:26.36 | gcb77 | delinka: once around 4 corners, once in the middle. Any more and something's not working right |
| 20:26.51 | delinka | yes, something is indeed not working :/ |
| 20:27.35 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@2001:5c0:954a:2:216:6fff:fe35:e7bd) |
| 20:28.00 | paulproteus | woglinde, Any other ideas? |
| 20:28.16 | alphaone | paulproteus: Do you have a multimeter handy? |
| 20:28.26 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 20:28.30 | paulproteus | alphaone, No, not really. )-: |
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| 20:28.34 | alphaone | Can you check the voltage of the battery? |
| 20:28.40 | Shoragan | paulproteus how long did you leave it off? |
| 20:28.40 | woglinde | paulproteus let it load half an hour |
| 20:28.41 | alphaone | paulproteus: :-/ |
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| 20:29.10 | malsyned | so the accelerometers can detect "down" pretty reliably because they're seeing a constant 1G in that direction? |
| 20:29.15 | happycube | yeah |
| 20:29.24 | spikebike | assuming it's not moving ;-) |
| 20:29.25 | paulproteus | Shoragan, I'm borring the phone from rejon (Jon Phillips), so I don't know. |
| 20:29.38 | Shoragan | i charged a battery which i forgot for some days in a v3 today, it took about 2-3 hours before it would turn on |
| 20:29.49 | paulproteus | Shoragan, Oh, that's probably what's going on. |
| 20:30.06 | paulproteus | Shoragan, So I should probably just leave it plugged into a known-powered USB port for 2-3h and then it'll probably turn on? |
| 20:30.10 | Shoragan | just leave it connected to the usb any try is every hour |
| 20:30.15 | dtx | spikebike: it could be moving at constant speed with no change |
| 20:30.20 | spikebike | sure |
| 20:30.37 | spikebike | I guess the better question is that can it measure 1G reliably |
| 20:30.57 | Shoragan | it won't necessarily turn on by itself |
| 20:30.59 | galexande | well, we can get specs for the accelerometer if anyone knows what chip it is |
| 20:31.02 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-180-153.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 20:31.07 | ScaredyCat | is monotone.openembedded.org buggered? |
| 20:31.09 | spikebike | I think the chip is still unmnamed |
| 20:31.16 | galexande | all of the little mems accelerometers i've seen offer quite a bit of precision |
| 20:31.23 | *** part/#openmoko dave_tt (n=dave_tt@port-212-202-4-247.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:31.30 | galexande | and a large range |
| 20:32.00 | spikebike | Kinda surprised they are including 2 |
| 20:32.04 | malsyned | but the ones on the GTA02 would likely be good enough for iPhone-style rotation detection? |
| 20:32.07 | paulproteus | Shoragan, Okay. Also, do you have any idea what the full-on white screen was about? |
| 20:32.20 | paulproteus | spikebike, Yeah, I was wondering what was up with the two accelerometers myself. |
| 20:32.49 | Shoragan | hmm, it could mean nothing, just wait until it's charged |
| 20:33.08 | paulproteus | Shoragan, Sounds good, I'll do that. |
| 20:33.11 | spikebike | with 2 I guess you can gauge yaw, tilt, and er umm the 3rd |
| 20:34.21 | galexande | malsyned, that much is certain |
| 20:34.53 | alphaone | http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/132387643/article.pl |
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| 20:36.44 | malsyned | galexande: nice. |
| 20:36.58 | malsyned | and xrandr is most of the rest of the heavy lifting? |
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| 20:41.34 | seemant | ok, so I just saw that iphone thing |
| 20:41.45 | seemant | I have to say, that stupid thing is beee-you-tiful |
| 20:41.48 | wansti | gah... my recording toolchain is messed up and i've got too much stuff on my mind right now :-( |
| 20:42.18 | seemant | the multitouch, the resolution, the zooming, the fonts |
| 20:42.22 | seemant | it's really crisp |
| 20:42.39 | spikebike | yeah, for what it does it's pretty slick |
| 20:42.50 | bmk789 | what package management system does openmoko use? |
| 20:42.52 | spikebike | hey speaking of which I saw the wiki mention that openmoko runs on the treo650 |
| 20:42.53 | seemant | I might wind up getting one for my wife |
| 20:43.03 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 20:43.09 | spikebike | bmk the openmoko slides mention agp-tget |
| 20:43.11 | spikebike | apt-get |
| 20:43.11 | seemant | I'm holding out for openmoko for my self though |
| 20:43.25 | bmk789 | ah, so its debain based |
| 20:43.35 | alphaone | ipk |
| 20:44.37 | devestate | is Whitby's MokoMakefile broken? |
| 20:44.41 | SpeedEvil | galexande: spikebike: paulproteus: The accels mentioned on the mailing list are _very_ insensitive compared to the optimal ones. 7 bits in a G, compared to 10-11 for the best in breed. The ones on the ML cannot tell roll, pitch or yaw. |
| 20:45.21 | SpeedEvil | The http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals |
| 20:46.08 | idarwin | "runs on the treo650" is a bit exaggerated - it is not a full install, just loaded into ram, if you soft-reset, it runs PalmOS again :-) Follow the link & read both articles fully. |
| 20:47.06 | galexande | 7 bits is still a ton |
| 20:47.16 | devestate | nm.. openembedded is just taking a long time... |
| 20:47.25 | galexande | (bit->mass conversion is a proprietary formula i'm not sharing) |
| 20:47.46 | spikebike | speedevil right, but with 2 you could derive roll pitch and yaw |
| 20:47.47 | seemant | what does 7 bits do? |
| 20:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 20:47.53 | SpeedEvil | galexande: The problem is that it works fine for orientation. But some of the nice things that you'd like to do involve second, or third derivatives |
| 20:48.01 | malsyned | seemant: represents any number between 0 and 127 ;) |
| 20:48.01 | SpeedEvil | spikebike: you can't. |
| 20:48.10 | spikebike | idarwin which link? |
| 20:48.14 | SpeedEvil | spikebike: see the above page for the limits. |
| 20:48.26 | malsyned | it's saying that you can measure with the precision of 1/127th of a G. |
| 20:48.26 | *** part/#openmoko neonum6 (n=neonum6@2001:4b88:7000:f1ca:c0ca:1d3:14fd:1112) |
| 20:48.30 | ScaredyCat | it is alive devestate? ? |
| 20:48.53 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:49.05 | malsyned | bmk789: it's openembedded based, which uses ipkg, which from what I've read is a kind of dpkg work-alike with a smaller footprint. |
| 20:49.21 | malsyned | er, 1/128th of a G. |
| 20:50.54 | delinka | I don't know if it had something to do with the read-only image (I started qemu with -snapshot), but I tried again without that switch and it asked twice for screen calibration and now it's starting the UI |
| 20:51.23 | seemant | malsyned: so it's a matter of precision of movement in the accelerometer? |
| 20:51.40 | spikebike | idarwin treo 650 link? |
| 20:52.33 | idarwin | spikebike, look on the front page of the wiki |
| 20:52.44 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCB43.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:52.49 | spikebike | idarwin thanks |
| 20:53.16 | SpeedEvil | seemant: yes |
| 20:53.19 | malsyned | seemant: almost, except that it's not measuring movement directly, it's measuring acceleration. It's a matter of how small a change in acceleration it can measure. In the case of a 7-bit reading, it can tell the difference between 1G and 129/128ths of a G. |
| 20:53.28 | idarwin | The real important question: Could the currently-planned-for-GTA02 accelerometers detect if you dropped your Neo, before it hit the floor? |
| 20:53.34 | SpeedEvil | Easily. |
| 20:53.46 | SpeedEvil | 0/128ths :) |
| 20:54.06 | idarwin | Thanks |
| 20:54.16 | malsyned | idarwin: what would it do, spin down the microSD card? :P |
| 20:54.34 | idarwin | good question. |
| 20:55.09 | malsyned | file an RMA with FIC on its way to the floor? |
| 20:55.16 | idarwin | hehe |
| 20:55.41 | ScaredyCat | openembedded.org is shafted |
| 20:56.10 | idarwin | no rma for dropping, maybe it could order its replacement? :-) |
| 20:57.06 | malsyned | oh man. it could tattle on you so you couldn't try to get an RMA later. Good think it's open-source ;) |
| 20:57.47 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@64.122.198.82) |
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| 20:58.29 | SpeedEvil | It would be reasonable to sync to the SD card/NAND |
| 20:58.37 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil needs to make a case with an airbag that deploys if you drop it |
| 20:58.47 | *** part/#openmoko alexissoft (n=alexis@robertlan.eu.org) |
| 20:58.48 | malsyned | SpeedEvil: oh, good point. |
| 20:58.48 | SpeedEvil | Naah. |
| 20:59.08 | SpeedEvil | I have also got here some protype rocket engines. |
| 20:59.15 | alex-weej | what kind of charger does the Neo1973 come with? |
| 20:59.26 | SpeedEvil | Of course, it would be bad if it went off in your pocket :) |
| 20:59.36 | galexande | alex, at least USB, and maybe AC (wall plug) |
| 20:59.54 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. I assume it's likely they'll screw up the AC. |
| 21:00.02 | ScaredyCat | is that a rocket in your pocket or are you ust pleased to see me..... err srry it is a rocket |
| 21:00.03 | SpeedEvil | And send everyone 110V plugs |
| 21:00.23 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 21:00.26 | SpeedEvil | As nothng else has been mentioned. |
| 21:01.27 | ScaredyCat | that's not going to be good :( |
| 21:02.12 | ScaredyCat | unless it's a 110->240v wit clip on heads |
| 21:02.35 | ph|ber | m0o |
| 21:02.56 | ScaredyCat | I mean, bearing in mind where they are, it's not going to be hard to source that sort of thing |
| 21:04.23 | seemant | so, what role do the accelerometers play in the neo1973 anyway? |
| 21:04.44 | seemant | it's not just for the web-page tilty thing is it? |
| 21:05.00 | bmk789 | dont forget video tilty thing |
| 21:05.05 | ScaredyCat | it could be anything... |
| 21:05.06 | CM | seemant: I suspect that they're dirt cheap, and a fun thing to play with that doesn't require much drivers or anything :) |
| 21:05.29 | ScaredyCat | CM has a good idea, shake it to shuffle palyback of songs |
| 21:05.30 | CM | So they basically said "What the heck, let's add these too" |
| 21:05.36 | ScaredyCat | s/had/had/ |
| 21:05.40 | ScaredyCat | s/has/had/ |
| 21:06.01 | malsyned | the 3D and the Accelerometers seem to have been added to make it possible to compete with the iPhone in the bling department. |
| 21:06.16 | CM | Even if it's just small things, I'm sure we can come up with fun things to do with them |
| 21:06.43 | woglinde | the accelarotrs are for rumble when you play the flipper game |
| 21:06.43 | paulproteus | Shoragan, and others - the phone booted now, sweet! |
| 21:07.12 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: I have relevant info about the ITAR issue around GPS. |
| 21:07.13 | ScaredyCat | "The file is already fully retrieved; nothing to do" ... and yet you still tried to retrieve it... |
| 21:07.29 | dtx | we all know the accelerometers will be used for porn in some fashion |
| 21:07.38 | CM | woglinde: To tilt it? |
| 21:07.44 | ScaredyCat | wank-o-meter |
| 21:07.48 | CM | dtx: Hehe |
| 21:08.03 | dtx | Leave it to porn to progress tech |
| 21:08.19 | ScaredyCat | it could be like tamagochi... |
| 21:08.36 | seemant | CM: ah I see, that makes sense |
| 21:08.47 | malsyned | if it didn't have accelerometers, how would it know when it was time to erase the virtual etch-a-sketch? |
| 21:08.48 | ScaredyCat | check your 5-knuckle-shuffle scores against complete stangers |
| 21:09.14 | CM | seemant: I'm just guessing here, so don't take it as a fact :) |
| 21:10.03 | don-o | did the neo get FCC approval? im assuming it did of course but it hasnt been announced afaik. |
| 21:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko brainey (n=brainey@64-142-39-144.dsl.static.sonic.net) |
| 21:10.58 | happycube | that's the best reason i can think of for all of them to be shipped from california |
| 21:11.33 | malsyned | don-o: does each device need to get FCC approval, or just each GSM model? |
| 21:11.36 | paulproteus | malsyned, I'm glad the virtual etch-a-sketch meme is spreading! |
| 21:11.52 | oelewapperke | perhaps we could finally make the bond car a reality |
| 21:11.53 | don-o | malsyned: i assume its by model. i cant imagine FCC workers approving every iPhone |
| 21:12.04 | oelewapperke | you know where the phone becomes the wheel of the car |
| 21:12.21 | malsyned | don-o: :P I meant specifically the GSM part on the board. |
| 21:12.46 | don-o | malsyned: oh no its the whole package. they need to test the antenna, etc. although i know fairly little about the whole process. |
| 21:15.22 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 21:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko Anon9646 (n=Anon9646@82.249.36.206) |
| 21:15.41 | malsyned | Here's a thread I just found on the subject. http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000792.html |
| 21:17.44 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope_ (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:17.50 | SpeedEvil | gnu_ What? |
| 21:17.54 | SpeedEvil | (ITAR) |
| 21:18.10 | bmk789 | how long does the prebuilt qemu/openmoko binaries take to boot? |
| 21:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177561455.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:18.24 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: We won a court case in the 1990s that software cannot be export controlled by ITAR due to the First Amendment. |
| 21:18.37 | SpeedEvil | Different part. |
| 21:18.42 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: In that case, we were suing about encryption software. |
| 21:18.52 | SpeedEvil | This is specifically software+hardware |
| 21:19.05 | SpeedEvil | software alone is not export controlled in this case. |
| 21:19.14 | seemant | CM: seems like a pretty good guess to me -- makes perfect sense, anyway |
| 21:19.35 | galexande | i bet therefore that libre gpsd is legitimate, but making a gps chipset which is designed to work with libre gpsd would be illegal |
| 21:19.35 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: There are many misconceptions in the web page on AGPS. For one thing, the phones are not being exported -- they're being imported, which is NOT controlled by ITAR. |
| 21:19.39 | *** join/#openmoko philoware (n=chatzill@88.226.152.170) |
| 21:19.52 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: It's both import and export. |
| 21:20.03 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 21:20.05 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: In what sense? |
| 21:20.51 | SpeedEvil | Hang on |
| 21:21.00 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: OK |
| 21:21.05 | galexande | gnu, at the moment at least, there is no international distribution so it is imported into the us and then re-exported |
| 21:21.25 | *** join/#openmoko pygi (n=mario@143-236.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 21:21.32 | SpeedEvil | § 120.1 -- General authorities and eligibility. |
| 21:21.33 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:21.52 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 21:22.25 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: sure, blah blah blah. I've read it. It doesn't overrule the constitution -- that's what our court decided. |
| 21:22.27 | galexande | it says the legislation allows the president to regulate both, but the president has only established a structure to regulate export? |
| 21:22.38 | malsyned | gnu_: what was the name of the case? |
| 21:22.49 | gnu_ | malsyned: Bernstein v. US. |
| 21:22.51 | galexande | gnu, "our court?" what the hell do you think this is, a democracy? |
| 21:23.19 | gnu_ | http://www.eff.org/Privacy/Crypto_export/Bernstein_case/ |
| 21:23.22 | *** join/#openmoko jeff__ (n=jeff@71-82-26-57.dhcp.mtgm.al.charter.com) |
| 21:23.53 | *** join/#openmoko Magon_ (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 21:23.54 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: software+hardware as a total device is not the same as software along. |
| 21:24.00 | SpeedEvil | alone |
| 21:24.16 | malsyned | gnu_: you're one of the founders of the EFF? |
| 21:24.19 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: I might agree. But that doesn't end the analysis. |
| 21:24.22 | gnu_ | malsyned: Yes. |
| 21:25.02 | malsyned | gnu_: Then this is a good opportunity for me to say 'thanks' |
| 21:25.08 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: The hardware you're using is consumer grade and appears in a wide variety of equipment. The ITAR is designed to control military grade GPS (in particular, for use in guided missiles). |
| 21:25.12 | gnu_ | malsyned: You're welcome! |
| 21:25.45 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: I can refer you to some very good ITAR lawyers if you'd like. |
| 21:26.20 | galexande | 5 meter accuracy is enough for a nuclear weapon :) |
| 21:26.30 | jeff__ | hello everyone |
| 21:26.40 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: Please do! |
| 21:26.40 | dtx | How many of these Phase 1 devices will there be total? |
| 21:26.40 | pygi | hey |
| 21:26.54 | SpeedEvil | gnu_ |
| 21:27.06 | SpeedEvil | read the definition of a military GPS. |
| 21:27.12 | gcb77 | any updates on order status? anyone receving confirmation e-mail? |
| 21:27.20 | jeff__ | does anyone have any experience in developing apps for OpenMoko? |
| 21:27.21 | aloril | jeff__: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:27.38 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: commercial hardware that does not implement the limits _is_ military equipment as defined in this legislation. |
| 21:27.46 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: the "designed for" part of it is key. "Designed for ... above 60,000 feet and 1000 knots velocity". Neither your hardware nor your software are designed for this. |
| 21:27.53 | jeff__ | successfully.. |
| 21:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko alUrdun_ (n=jordan@d64-180-118-171.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 21:28.29 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: The hardware will function just fine. And the software needs only one if statement altered to generate positions at 1001 knots and 61000 feet. |
| 21:28.48 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: the normal satellite velocities towards or away are >> 1000kt |
| 21:29.05 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: You actually have no idea what would happen -- have you tested the software at high velocities? |
| 21:29.11 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: All existing GPS could in theory have this problem - apart from the fact that none of these are open sourcel. |
| 21:29.36 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: If it doesn't work at 999 knots, that's a bug that should be fixed. |
| 21:30.12 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: The problem is that you're making a mountain from a molehill. The ITAR bureaucrats really are focused on controlling things that are real weapons -- not consumer cellphones. |
| 21:30.18 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: for example, my garmin GPS12 runs on a 386/16. If it had the appropriate code changes, it could do this. |
| 21:30.49 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 21:31.31 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: Certainly. I am not saying this is certainly an issue - it's certainly not until an open-source GPS driver is written - I'm saying that there needs to be consultation with actual lawyers experienced in ITAR before distributing an open-sourced GPS. |
| 21:31.41 | jeff__ | I read the FAQ page already but the documentation of the whole project really stinks especially setting up the environment and getting your app into a image |
| 21:32.31 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Talk with John R. Liebman, co-author of a main reference book on the export controls. |
| 21:32.33 | malsyned | SpeedEvil: I think gnu_'s point is that legislatures and bureaucrats don't think like programmers (a cynic might add "meaning they don't think logically"). As long as you don't put effort into making it work under the conditions they're interested in, you have the ability to plausibly argue that their regulations don't apply to you, because of the wording of the regulations. |
| 21:33.11 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: hang on, phone call. |
| 21:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 21:33.13 | SpeedEvil | I agree. However, in some cases legislators can be wound up to take technical infringments a lot further than would be logical. |
| 21:33.39 | SpeedEvil | And for example - to be paranoid - apple has a lot of pull. |
| 21:34.18 | galexande | any plan that relies on finding justice in an american court has a sbustantial chance for failure |
| 21:34.20 | galexande | so they use closed gpsd |
| 21:35.07 | Elrond | galexande - Who? |
| 21:35.18 | malsyned | Elrond: the OpenMoko developers. |
| 21:35.23 | galexande | fdc |
| 21:35.43 | galexande | fic grr |
| 21:35.53 | Elrond | Well, the opensource driver for the Neo1973's gps is _very slowly_ on its way. |
| 21:35.57 | SpeedEvil | Practically - for FIC - there is absolutely no risk in them distributing a closed-source GPS. |
| 21:35.58 | Viko | I for one would love to see an intercontinental nuclear missile with a touchscreen. |
| 21:36.13 | pygi | Viko, not good thinking :) |
| 21:36.15 | Elrond | galexande, malsyned - So SpeedEvil's consideration have a background. |
| 21:36.24 | galexande | or a radio control airplane with afterburners |
| 21:36.25 | galexande | and a touchscreen |
| 21:36.37 | *** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46) |
| 21:36.45 | jedix | Viko: I saw that in a movie once.. so it must be real |
| 21:37.24 | SpeedEvil | The only possible case is that if it would be likely that it was held in court that open-source GPS was an inherent unlimited GPS, due to the documented off-switch on the code. |
| 21:37.39 | SpeedEvil | And that's for a lawyer specialising in ITAR and software. |
| 21:37.51 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: http://www.mckennalong.com/people-119.html is John Liebman. He's very good. Expensive, too, but he'll probably give you a free hour to start and then you can see whether and how to proceed. |
| 21:37.53 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Press_Coverage/it]] [[User:Idarwin]] [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison/it]] [[Neo1973:_GTA01Bv4_versus_GTA02_comparison]] and other changes |
| 21:38.04 | Viko | Running Linukes...? |
| 21:38.43 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: I'm currently trying to save up $300 - for phone hardware. I really doubt I can reasonably afford consultation any time in the next few years. |
| 21:39.17 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Well, who is the point person deciding whether to use open or closed source in this product/project? |
| 21:39.29 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: (for the GPS, I mean) |
| 21:39.36 | SpeedEvil | Whoever decides to include it in the OpenMoko build shipped with the phone. |
| 21:39.44 | malsyned | gnu_, SpeedEvil: possibly someone at FIC would be interested in being included in this discussion. |
| 21:39.46 | SpeedEvil | What the users then upgrade to is not FICs problem |
| 21:39.51 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Who puts together the release? |
| 21:40.04 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: I'd imagine one of the core team. |
| 21:40.15 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: I believe this can be handled straightforwardely, rather than by evasions like "we ship it one way and then users modify it" |
| 21:40.18 | galexande | i still think fic is not interested in this problem, because they can ship the closed gpsd at essentially no costto them |
| 21:40.46 | SpeedEvil | And I've still got to (partially, in cooperation with others) write the open-source driver :) |
| 21:40.47 | malsyned | galexande: the OpenMoko team *is* bummed about having to ship closed-source GPS though. |
| 21:40.52 | galexande | the philosophy that your radio interfaces can run closed software is already assumed and applies equally well when the closed firmware runs on the host arm |
| 21:41.01 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: My point is that the person who can make the decision, is the one who should talk with the lawyer, so they can be comfortable with the results. |
| 21:41.22 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Or at least they should be involved in the discussion (along with others). |
| 21:41.26 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: Oh - I agree. |
| 21:41.34 | galexande | i really think their time is better spent elsewhere :) |
| 21:41.42 | kristian-m | aloril wie kommt das openmoo-werbe-topic zu stande? - hast du mit denen was zu tuen? |
| 21:41.47 | malsyned | gnu_: Sean Moss-Pultz (sean@openmoko.com) is the lead architect for OpenMoko at FIC, I believe. He'd be a good person to start with. |
| 21:41.49 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: I've posted the concern to the mailing list, and this is quite irrelevant till the open source driver is writtn. |
| 21:42.06 | SpeedEvil | Which is going to be at least several weeks, even in hyper-optimistic time. |
| 21:42.13 | kristian-m | aloril ah sorry, misst a screen |
| 21:42.47 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I'd say rather months, judging from current progress. |
| 21:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 21:42.54 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: By the way, shipping the closed-source code is no guarantee that they are not violating the ITAR! If they have a concern about ITAR, they would need to verify that the closed-source code doesn't meet the controlled criteria. This may be difficult if even they don't have the source for it. |
| 21:43.43 | Elrond | gnu_ - I guess, they can point to the people they got the binary from. |
| 21:43.45 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: There are GPS simulators. |
| 21:44.10 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: also - they don't need to do that. They simply need to say "those bad men said it did", and show the bit of paper. |
| 21:44.14 | gnu_ | malsyned, SpeedEvil: My concern in general is that open source folks don't limit themselves out of hysterical reactions to nonexistent issues. |
| 21:44.47 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Nope -- if you ship a product you are personally liable. There's no "he told me it was OK". |
| 21:44.49 | cjb | I agree with gnu_. |
| 21:44.49 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: Mine too - my concern is that FIC getting hit with frivolous legal action that could have been avoided, that delays phones being sold is bad. |
| 21:45.03 | malsyned | gnu_: I agree completely. |
| 21:45.28 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Generally there are no avenues to frivolous legal action here. E.g. Apple can't sue FIC or OpenMoko for possible ITAR violations. |
| 21:46.06 | malsyned | SpeedEvil: so your preferred strategy is to be comfortable with FIC shipping a closed GPS driver in order to get the hardware out the door and instead helping to develop an after-market completely free solution? |
| 21:46.09 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: no. They can get someone all excited about it thoug possibly. |
| 21:46.24 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 21:46.33 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: If the State Dept thinks there might be an issue, they generally handle it very quietly. Remember, their goal is to keep bad stuff out of the hands of irresponsible people. Trumpeting to the press that you can buy this bad product openly around the world is not a way to do that. |
| 21:46.37 | SpeedEvil | The core team has _no_ time at the moment to work on a working sybsystem. |
| 21:46.39 | raynet | wouldn't this all be just a problem from americans? |
| 21:47.07 | SpeedEvil | They are concentrating on rather more important bits - like a properly working dialer. |
| 21:47.15 | devestate | lol |
| 21:47.43 | SpeedEvil | Or scribbling labels on packages even. |
| 21:47.44 | Elrond | raynet - In the first shot: Yes. |
| 21:47.48 | gnu_ | raynet: This particular problem (ITAR) is an American regulation. There is an international control regime, the Wassenaar Arrangement, that many countries subscribe to. I don't know if it controls GPS; it did control crypto, but with significantly looser controls that exempted openly published technology and software. |
| 21:48.09 | roh | you guys worry to much about this itar stuff |
| 21:48.12 | galexande | as i see it, i think teh open source hackers shouldn't care one way or the other about the itar, code is more real than law. but the fic people, they need to worry about making money, and so their interests are legitimately different. |
| 21:48.21 | raynet | gnu_: it can always be distributed via The Pirate Bay |
| 21:48.22 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: aren't there half a dozen free GPS implementations? |
| 21:48.34 | seemant | now, this whole multi-touch buesiness |
| 21:48.35 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: Fundamentally, all I'm saying is that asking a lwayer before distributing it isn't a bad idea. |
| 21:48.39 | galexande | raynet, exactly |
| 21:48.40 | seemant | is that something we can expect, you think? |
| 21:48.44 | roh | IF the us make trouble about that, then we still can ship from some other country |
| 21:48.50 | Elrond | roh - We don't want to piss the people who work so nicely with us. |
| 21:48.58 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: it's software+hardware only that's regulated |
| 21:49.10 | galexande | this'll be the new decss as quick as you can blink once we as a community address it, but fic can't really push the ball forward without accepting more liability than they need |
| 21:49.12 | roh | Elrond ? |
| 21:49.26 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: the software is only the 'back end' bit - the front end driver is still needed. |
| 21:49.32 | seemant | wait, there's open source gps thingies? |
| 21:49.47 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: So the "front end" talks serial protocol to the GPS chipset? |
| 21:49.53 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: no. |
| 21:49.56 | raynet | FIC could add a small plastic explosive in the phone that goes off at certain speed or altitude |
| 21:50.00 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: well - technically yes. |
| 21:50.19 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: but it's talking to correlators directly. It's a raw protocol, not cooked positions. |
| 21:50.35 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Right. |
| 21:50.38 | malsyned | seemant: multitouch is not planned for the first consumer release of the Neo1973 in October, last I heard. |
| 21:50.45 | seemant | malsyned: ah ok |
| 21:50.51 | cjb | gnu_: in other words, a software-assisted AGPS. |
| 21:50.56 | SpeedEvil | Multitouch is moderately more expensive on the LCD, even in volume. |
| 21:50.58 | cjb | malsyned: no kidding. |
| 21:51.00 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Still, decoding the serial protocol (esp. if documented) is a lot less work than getting all the math right. Somebody's done the hard part already. |
| 21:51.01 | malsyned | seemant: but it's on the wishlist. they definitely know there's demand for it. |
| 21:51.09 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: it's not actually. |
| 21:51.14 | malsyned | cjb: unless I heard wrong. lemme check the wiki... |
| 21:51.15 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: the math isn't that bad. |
| 21:51.25 | seemant | malsyned: is multi-touch basically that two-finger zoom-out/zoom-in thingy on the iphone? |
| 21:51.26 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: I've done orbital simulation code before. |
| 21:51.29 | cjb | malsyned: you heard right; I'm expressing surprise that someone would think it might be present. |
| 21:51.40 | raynet | wouldn't it be just easier to disassemble the binary driver? |
| 21:51.48 | seemant | cjb: ah, I didn't think or not, I was just asking |
| 21:52.06 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: and fundamentally it's just orbital simulation + vector subtraction |
| 21:52.19 | SpeedEvil | raynet: it's a big driver. |
| 21:52.24 | malsyned | gcb77: they don't have a customer support email address? |
| 21:52.33 | cjb | yeah, the binary is 1M or something. |
| 21:52.35 | seemant | cjb: and more of a "in the future" time rather than neo1973 specific (I heard there are 3 other devices being developed) |
| 21:52.37 | SpeedEvil | raynet: perhaps. If you want to start dissasembly, the wiki is that way :) |
| 21:52.44 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: E.g. http://gps.psas.pdx.edu/ (GPL-GPS) |
| 21:52.51 | raynet | SpeedEvil: is the binary in the wiki? |
| 21:52.54 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: yes - I know of that. |
| 21:52.58 | gcb77 | I replied to the auto-reply e-mail and I'm waiting for a response |
| 21:53.13 | cjb | gnu_: that runs on eCos. |
| 21:53.14 | raynet | SpeedEvil: cannot do anything until i get my OpenMoko |
| 21:53.21 | SpeedEvil | raynet: no - I was meaning to output dissasembly notes. If you asked, I'm sure someone'd send you it. |
| 21:53.27 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@dsktop.student.umd.edu) |
| 21:53.27 | raynet | before i have it in my hand it is just vaporware |
| 21:53.29 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Note it says "It's currently positioning, with errors down in the 100's of meters.". I.e. there's a lot more work to do on the math! |
| 21:54.05 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: yep -- also it's a port of some Linux software. eCos won't affect the math, it's just the OS layer (serial port reads, etc) |
| 21:54.22 | SpeedEvil | gnu_: yes, I know. I've done orbital simulations with well under the required error. That part isn't hard. The ionospheric corrections aren't hard, nor is the reletavistic. |
| 21:54.29 | SpeedEvil | It's annoying. |
| 21:54.36 | SpeedEvil | But not fundamentally hard. |
| 21:55.21 | SpeedEvil | The fun and quite hard bit is software to get a lock within a second or two. |
| 21:55.36 | SpeedEvil | Without going to an AGPS server. |
| 21:55.59 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Yes, that's hard. But it seems to me it would be good to do the easy part first! |
| 21:56.08 | SpeedEvil | What easy part? |
| 21:56.25 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: get the chipset running with the existing (100's of meters off) free code. |
| 21:56.48 | SpeedEvil | That's not the hard part. |
| 21:57.07 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Right, it's the easy part. |
| 21:57.12 | SpeedEvil | The hard part is going from serial bytes -> meaning of serial bytes in psuedoranges |
| 21:57.33 | SpeedEvil | And the easy part is pointless until the hard part has been done. |
| 21:58.14 | SpeedEvil | There is currently no way to connect the chipset to the code - the protocol isn't known. |
| 21:58.37 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: right, so it's reverse engineering. |
| 21:58.42 | SpeedEvil | Basically. |
| 21:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko mario__ (n=mario@143-236.dsl.iskon.hr) |
| 22:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko guest_ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 22:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@adsl-074-229-245-180.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 22:02.16 | raynet | humm.. megabyte driver sounds quite big.. i wonder if it is static compile |
| 22:02.53 | CM | gcb77: I don't think anyone has gotten anything more than the automatic reply |
| 22:03.12 | CM | gcb77: No reply to my mail sent there either |
| 22:03.44 | gnu_ | raynet: Here's a block diagram of the proprietary software: http://www.globallocate.com/SEMICONDUCTORS/SEMI_DRIVER_Frameset.htm |
| 22:03.51 | gcb77 | CM: thanks, hope we hear something soon |
| 22:05.28 | roh | ah.. schonmal mickey und co besucht? |
| 22:05.48 | roh | oops.. wrong window |
| 22:07.39 | *** join/#openmoko rustalot (n=rustalot@bas9-toronto12-1088717368.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:08.27 | rustalot | so when do i get to buy one ? :) |
| 22:08.27 | aloril | rustalot: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:08.40 | SpeedEvil | rustalot: look at topic |
| 22:09.13 | rustalot | SpeedEvil: Rather, when will it be ready for consumers like me? |
| 22:09.21 | SpeedEvil | 'October' |
| 22:09.31 | SpeedEvil | With a whole heap of luck. |
| 22:09.39 | SpeedEvil | There have been doubts expressed. |
| 22:09.59 | SpeedEvil | I think it's likely the hardware will be ready. And the core phone apps will be stable by then. |
| 22:10.09 | SpeedEvil | But more, I would be pleasantly surprised. |
| 22:10.53 | gnu_ | SpeedEvil: Do you have the pmb2520 "short data sheet" ref'd in the GPSD wiki page? The link is broken now. |
| 22:11.19 | SpeedEvil | Sigh |
| 22:11.27 | malsyned | Can anyone comment on the polish of the software in the July 9th release? |
| 22:11.30 | SpeedEvil | It's basically minimal, hangon. |
| 22:11.34 | SpeedEvil | malsyned: sandpaper |
| 22:11.50 | SpeedEvil | malsyned: it will make calls - most of the time. |
| 22:11.54 | SpeedEvil | malsyned: nothing more. |
| 22:12.16 | don-o | SpeedEvil: receiving calls? |
| 22:12.16 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:13.21 | SpeedEvil | don-o: apparently again - mostly works. |
| 22:13.32 | SpeedEvil | But it's at the stage where it will crash - often |
| 22:13.50 | don-o | SpeedEvil: is there a reset button? |
| 22:13.57 | SpeedEvil | Err. |
| 22:14.03 | SpeedEvil | Funno actually. |
| 22:14.06 | SpeedEvil | dunno |
| 22:14.13 | Elrond | reset button? Huh? For what? |
| 22:14.23 | don-o | SpeedEvil: i havent seen one in the photos. to recover from a crash i assume you pop out the battery. |
| 22:14.34 | SpeedEvil | This is _NOT_ a suitable phone for end-users. |
| 22:14.37 | don-o | unless you mean a less-severe crash |
| 22:14.40 | don-o | SpeedEvil: yes yes :) |
| 22:14.57 | Elrond | don-o - Most crashes are userspace only. The OS still runs fine. |
| 22:15.00 | SpeedEvil | If you are a dev, and happy with hacking it, it might sort-of-work as an everyday phone. |
| 22:15.02 | SpeedEvil | With no SMS. |
| 22:15.14 | don-o | Elrond: ah ok. |
| 22:16.00 | Elrond | don-o - The OS feels 95% stable by now. From time to time some functions break and get fixed within weeks. ;-) |
| 22:16.10 | *** join/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:16.11 | Elrond | don-o - I have a quite stable kernel on my neo. |
| 22:16.19 | don-o | Elrond: cool thats what i was expecting. |
| 22:16.34 | don-o | Elrond: im waiting for the first 'field reports' before ordering one though. |
| 22:16.55 | Elrond | don-o - No problem. I would have done the same in your place. |
| 22:16.56 | don-o | im a developer but i want this to be my primary phone. |
| 22:17.16 | Elrond | for primary phone: It needs time. See SpeedEvil :) |
| 22:17.46 | don-o | heh. i can put up with userspace crashes and a few missed calls. i dont use a phone all that much. |
| 22:18.29 | don-o | i'll probably use some PDA-style functions more than making calls. |
| 22:18.46 | Elrond | don-o - If the OS really hangs (happened to me), you have two options: Press the power-button for 10 seconds (like with most ATX boards). If that doesn't help, you have to pop the battery out. |
| 22:18.49 | don-o | i want to read RSS feeds while in the bathroom at work, basically. |
| 22:19.14 | cjb | don-o: I use GobbleRSS |
| 22:19.18 | cjb | don-o: which is a Google Reader clone |
| 22:19.22 | cjb | that you run on your server |
| 22:19.25 | Elrond | don-o - Well, all the PDA functions are even more alpha than the dialing. |
| 22:19.35 | rustalot | no ! Akregator for the win |
| 22:19.36 | cjb | and it'll generate a static HTML page with all the RSS content on |
| 22:19.40 | don-o | Elrond: im happy with running 'more' on a text file if need me. |
| 22:19.40 | malsyned | the cellular Internet access on this is only around dial-up speeds, right? |
| 22:19.49 | cjb | so you can load that page, then go away from the network completely and read it |
| 22:19.51 | don-o | s/need me/need be/ |
| 22:19.59 | cjb | rustalot: that's a client; this is a web app |
| 22:20.25 | ozzloy | has the fic 1973 been ok'd by the fcc? |
| 22:20.34 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:20.35 | don-o | cjb: id rather sync with something. im not going to have GPRS data right away. |
| 22:20.41 | don-o | ozzloy: i just asked the list for the FCC ID |
| 22:21.22 | ozzloy | don-o: what was the answer? |
| 22:21.30 | don-o | ozzloy: it was 20 minutes ago. no answer yet. |
| 22:21.49 | Elrond | don-o - It's a basic linux toy. I have python on it, and stuff. But you shouldn't expect "useable with big thumb in the train" :-) |
| 22:22.05 | ozzloy | don-o: oic |
| 22:22.08 | cjb | don-o: right, how you get the generated HTML on to the phone is up to you. |
| 22:22.08 | don-o | an FCC web search gets too many hits on fic as it does fuzzy matching |
| 22:22.33 | Elrond | don-o - Did you try GTA01 ? |
| 22:23.05 | SpeedEvil | Neo1973? |
| 22:23.07 | SpeedEvil | FIC NEO |
| 22:23.25 | *** join/#openmoko keitsi (n=keitsi@a91-153-244-32.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 22:23.26 | don-o | there is no field for product name (!), just "applicant name" |
| 22:23.35 | don-o | https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/reports/GenericSearch.cfm |
| 22:23.36 | Elrond | hmpf. :-( |
| 22:23.42 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:23.48 | Elrond | Hi CoreDump|home |
| 22:24.08 | *** part/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 22:25.00 | don-o | googling for site:wiki.openmoko.org "fcc id" |
| 22:25.04 | don-o | turns up nothing either. |
| 22:25.20 | SpeedEvil | don-o: it's not your problem. |
| 22:25.22 | SpeedEvil | It's theirs. |
| 22:25.35 | spikebike | As long as the Z axes does not point in the same direction as gravity + current acceleration, then you can determine roll, pitch, yaw, and XYZ acceleration. |
| 22:25.50 | spikebike | ah, so you can get pitch, yaw, and roll... most of the time |
| 22:26.03 | SpeedEvil | No - that's with ideal accels. |
| 22:26.23 | SpeedEvil | With real ones it degrades to unusability fast. |
| 22:26.24 | don-o | SpeedEvil: operating an unlicenced transmitter is actually a problem |
| 22:26.40 | spikebike | ah |
| 22:26.58 | SpeedEvil | spikebike: there are some estimates of performance with real accels further down |
| 22:27.11 | spikebike | yeah, just getting to that ;-) |
| 22:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:29.38 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 22:31.02 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-87-136.w90-2.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:32.14 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:33.56 | Aria | There's an FCC ID with the right date, 'U58CC602' |
| 22:34.03 | Aria | But it's all confidential, so there's not much on it |
| 22:34.15 | carrar | UBER S3CR37 |
| 22:34.18 | Aria | Dated 4/17/07 |
| 22:37.01 | carrar | 15 Matches found for FCC ID 'U58CC602' |
| 22:38.04 | carrar | pdf schematics |
| 22:38.19 | *** part/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-71-234-142-158.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 22:38.21 | don-o | i see one match for that FCC ID. it has grant date of 4/17/2007 |
| 22:38.25 | Aria | Yep. |
| 22:38.26 | carrar | only a few are classified confidential |
| 22:38.31 | don-o | the exhibits are available, including the photo |
| 22:38.37 | don-o | its not the neo197 |
| 22:38.37 | SpeedEvil | Match 17 would be about right |
| 22:38.47 | don-o | its a CDMA phone called the "LEO" |
| 22:38.50 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 22:39.44 | don-o | searching on FIC Communications brings up two hits. |
| 22:39.54 | don-o | both 4/17/2007 |
| 22:39.59 | carrar | I show 15 |
| 22:40.14 | don-o | but the freq range is different for this other one 1851-1908mhz |
| 22:40.36 | carrar | http://ln.ooz.net/34364 |
| 22:40.52 | don-o | dou. same LEO. different band. |
| 22:41.20 | don-o | carrar: those are all elements for the same registration |
| 22:41.28 | carrar | yeah |
| 22:41.30 | Aria | Doh. Stupid site doesn't link things well |
| 22:41.42 | carrar | thats the FCC we all know andlove :) |
| 22:42.13 | mmazur | Why don't the evil ppl from the corporation send my my phone :( |
| 22:42.15 | carrar | I have to admit, they are much faster now days |
| 22:42.18 | mmazur | They're evil. |
| 22:43.33 | carrar | when do the lawsuites start? |
| 22:43.35 | carrar | heh |
| 22:43.36 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:43.50 | carrar | thats when you know it's really taking off |
| 22:44.14 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 22:44.20 | mmazur | I'll sue FIC over emotional damage for making me wait too long :) |
| 22:44.26 | carrar | haha |
| 22:44.46 | rwhitby | morning |
| 22:44.51 | carrar | Tue Jul 10 15:44:50 PDT 2007 |
| 22:44.56 | carrar | Good afternoon |
| 22:45.08 | zedstar | good evening ;) |
| 22:45.20 | hads | It's always morning on IRC |
| 22:45.36 | don-o | good morning rwhitby |
| 22:45.49 | rwhitby | hads: only when you join. it's evening when you leave. |
| 22:46.04 | hads | rwhitby: Yeah, well, you got me there :) |
| 22:46.57 | Elrond | mmazur - How common is "Mazur" as a name in Poland? Last I heard that name was in Austria (.at). |
| 22:47.14 | mmazur | Very. |
| 22:48.22 | mmazur | 14th most popular |
| 22:48.25 | *** join/#openmoko Jason1 (n=ws1@c-24-15-3-175.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 22:49.03 | Elrond | mmazur - Ahh. So the ones in .at are probably people from .pl? |
| 22:50.45 | mmazur | Dunno. Probably. |
| 22:52.53 | aloril | (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: Neo 1973 Phase 1 started http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/07/11/neo-1973-phase-1-started/ |
| 22:58.31 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A3615B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:03.22 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0AE5B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:06.47 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 23:07.03 | pavelm | Hi, everyone |
| 23:07.44 | pavelm | ...just... have you ever noticed how small/unreadable fonts on openmoko are? |
| 23:08.13 | Elrond | pavelm - Yep. I already enlarged the dpi a bit. ,o) |
| 23:08.30 | pavelm | elrond: Hmm, how do you do that? |
| 23:08.48 | pavelm | I hand-edited theme to make fonts bigger... |
| 23:09.12 | Elrond | pavelm - Wait a sec... |
| 23:09.35 | carrar | I can't seem the enlarge them on mine, OH WAIT, I don't have one yet :) |
| 23:10.09 | pavelm | I even created a bug for that ... with a patch, too (http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=571), but then I noticed it is assigned to buglog@... which I assume is "nobody" :-( |
| 23:10.33 | pavelm | carrar: I actually have two of them here... shuffless... |
| 23:10.48 | pavelm | carrar: No, two small fonts on two devices are not as good as one bigger font :-) |
| 23:10.58 | Elrond | pavelm - /etc/X11/Xserver: |
| 23:11.00 | Elrond | """ |
| 23:11.09 | Elrond | export USER=root |
| 23:11.09 | Elrond | ARGS=" -dpi 100 -br -pn -fp built-ins,/usr/share/fonts/ttf,/usr/share/fonts/truetype" |
| 23:11.12 | Elrond | """ |
| 23:11.19 | Elrond | Notice the "-dpi 100" ;-) |
| 23:13.37 | pavelm | Yeah, I thought I experimented with that, too. |
| 23:13.38 | Elrond | pavelm - Or with 125dpi: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/663016598/in/set-72157600421319415/ |
| 23:13.56 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-67-149.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 23:14.13 | pavelm | elrond: hand-editing /usr/share/themes/... , you can actually enlarge fonts in menus etc, so they are usable using finger :-) |
| 23:15.20 | Elrond | pavelm - Yeah. My 100dpi setting is useable with fingernails. |
| 23:15.36 | pavelm | what I wanted to know is... who should I ask to fix the theme upstream? |
| 23:15.40 | Elrond | pavelm - The 125dpi setting gets bad look (see other pics in the stream) |
| 23:16.27 | Elrond | pavelm - I have no idea. I'd be interested too. I hope there will be some better initiative for people with bad eyes. |
| 23:17.00 | pavelm | elrond: I'd hope dpi is set to realistic value, and then breakage is fixed. We do not want to ship neos with magnifying glasses, right? |
| 23:17.56 | Elrond | pavelm - There's already a bug on the "set dpi to realistic value"... |
| 23:18.03 | *** join/#openmoko arw1 (i=familia@201.244.109.78) |
| 23:18.56 | Elrond | !ombug 59 |
| 23:19.14 | Elrond | pavelm - http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59 |
| 23:19.16 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 59, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 23:19.18 | cdbot2 | * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: Real DPI vs. Fake DPI |
| 23:19.19 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=59 |
| 23:19.33 | Elrond | Ahh, cdbot2 woke up. ;-) |
| 23:19.49 | andylockran | any luck on the mokomakefile uboot problems? |
| 23:20.43 | *** join/#openmoko faded515 (n=faded515@cpc3-hatf4-0-0-cust973.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:20.51 | pavelm | Good morning, cdbot2, have one more cofee :-) |
| 23:20.53 | Elrond | andylockran - Is that your problem? http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=635 |
| 23:21.33 | zecke | mickey|bbl: moin |
| 23:22.18 | mickey|bbl | zecke: yawn |
| 23:22.24 | mickey|bbl | zecke: still awaken? |
| 23:22.38 | zecke | mickey|bbl: yeah, but I'm searching for a place to sleep now :) |
| 23:22.54 | Elrond | Hi mickey|bbl :-) |
| 23:23.01 | mickey|bbl | hey Elrond |
| 23:24.00 | Elrond | mickey|bbl - BTW: What do you think of an informal openmoko-meeting in FFM? ;-) |
| 23:25.02 | mickey|bbl | Elrond: sounds good! when i'm here, i'm always in the mood for a coffee and a chat. any date in mind? When I'm back from GUADEC i'll be in ffm for about 4 weeks |
| 23:25.17 | mickey|bbl | before guadec, it's a bit hectic on my end |
| 23:25.17 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 23:25.32 | Elrond | When was guadec? |
| 23:25.38 | Elrond | s/was/will be |
| 23:25.44 | mickey|bbl | this sunday |
| 23:25.46 | mickey|bbl | one week long |
| 23:25.58 | andylockran | where? |
| 23:26.01 | mickey|bbl | birmingham |
| 23:26.15 | andylockran | how much are tix? |
| 23:26.46 | mickey|bbl | for the conference? free of charge, i think. it's an oss conference after all |
| 23:26.50 | Elrond | mickey|bbl - weekend of the 28th for example? |
| 23:27.14 | pavelm | did anyone get ringing on incoming calls to work? That part is somehow important for a phone :-) |
| 23:27.28 | Elrond | I already saw oss conferences for about 400Eur for two days or so. |
| 23:27.31 | mickey|bbl | Elrond: looks good to me. I'll make a note. |
| 23:27.31 | pygi | pavelm, nah, why would you need that :) |
| 23:28.39 | *** join/#openmoko mzb (n=ubernut@ppp108-88.static.internode.on.net) |
| 23:28.45 | pavelm | pygi: I'm not good enough at telepathy, yet. |
| 23:29.08 | paroneayea | the neo advanced is really more for hardware hackers than software hackers, right? |
| 23:29.09 | pavelm | pygi: And I could use more training in "detecting radiation in 900MHz area". |
| 23:29.18 | cjb | paroneayea: firmware hackers. |
| 23:29.19 | pygi | pavelm, #telepathy might help? :) |
| 23:29.28 | cjb | you can even be a kernel hacker and not need the devel kit. |
| 23:29.46 | paroneayea | cjb: cool. Thanks for the clarification |
| 23:29.53 | SpeedEvil | Essentially. If you need to ask, you don't need it. |
| 23:29.56 | paroneayea | I don't know shit about hardware or firmware, so :) |
| 23:30.45 | pavelm | pygi: Hmm... if I spend enough time on #telepathy, will I need a phone? |
| 23:31.01 | mickey|bbl | g'night folks |
| 23:31.03 | pavelm | bye, mickey |
| 23:31.43 | pygi | pavelm, who knows :) |
| 23:32.24 | Elrond | Night mickey|zzZZzz |
| 23:32.40 | Elrond | pavelm - I don't have the debug board. ;-) |
| 23:33.24 | Elrond | cjb - the debug board could help when developing kernel though. |
| 23:33.40 | rwhitby | specially for kgdb work |
| 23:33.50 | Elrond | Hmm... or will the kernel dumb a nice ooops on the display? ;-) |
| 23:33.55 | *** join/#openmoko cb22 (n=cb22@dsl-245-180-153.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 23:34.04 | SpeedEvil | It's basically in addition to what you'd get on the PC if you have a debug board. |
| 23:34.25 | SpeedEvil | A simple 'dump over I2C to the microSD' would work |
| 23:34.29 | SpeedEvil | for oops |
| 23:34.42 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah. |
| 23:34.45 | SpeedEvil | Or dump over SMS :) |
| 23:34.50 | Elrond | *lol* |
| 23:35.06 | Elrond | Well, usbtty-console would be sooo useful. |
| 23:35.07 | ljp | build is actually building |
| 23:35.10 | rwhitby | dump over speakers, and you have to decode it like they did the ipod firmware ... |
| 23:35.17 | pavelm | ...used it exactly twice. |
| 23:35.29 | Agrajag- | something i haven't seen anyone say yet - about how long does the neo1973 currently take to boot? |
| 23:35.30 | SpeedEvil | If you need it, it's vital. |
| 23:35.55 | Elrond | Agrajag- - About a minute or so. I never timed it. |
| 23:36.05 | pavelm | speed: true. When I needed it, it was basically impossible to solve without that. |
| 23:36.50 | Elrond | Agrajag- - I'll time it for you now. But beware: I have an older image/kernel/u-boot. So the current images might be faster. |
| 23:36.56 | SpeedEvil | What was the issue? |
| 23:37.19 | pavelm | speed: Debugging low-level resume code on x86-64. |
| 23:38.31 | Aria | Wow. A minute. That's fast! |
| 23:38.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Main_Page/sk]] [[Template:Languages]] [[Main_Page/gr]] [[OpenMoko_talk:Community_Portal]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 23:38.44 | Agrajag- | Elrond: cheers. a minute sounds kind of long, especially if you're like me and often turn your phone off. i guess there's room for improvement both in the boot process and the faster processor |
| 23:38.54 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 23:39.02 | SpeedEvil | In most cases, off won't be off. |
| 23:39.06 | SpeedEvil | Off will be suspend-RAM |
| 23:39.18 | SpeedEvil | which hopefully should come back in under a couple of seconds. |
| 23:40.00 | Psi | if you do actually turn it off, does the RTC stop ? |
| 23:40.08 | Elrond | Agrajag- - Okay... timed it: 3 seconds hold the power button to actually switch on, exactly one minute for X to start, another 40 seconds for the GUI. |
| 23:40.21 | SpeedEvil | Psi: yes |
| 23:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko khester_ (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:40.40 | SpeedEvil | Psi: however, there is a 'RTC only' mode that'd normally be used |
| 23:40.52 | Agrajag- | ah ok, couple of seconds sounds fine then |
| 23:41.22 | Elrond | From suspend: Yes, few seconds. (if it works.) |
| 23:41.26 | linux_galore | my N95 takes a good 5 seconds to boot up |
| 23:42.21 | linux_galore | some of the new WinCE 6 units even with a 600mhz or more cpu take a while to boot up |
| 23:42.25 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Is the rtc in the PMU off in off-mode too? |
| 23:43.12 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 23:43.32 | *** join/#openmoko osmosis_ (n=steven@63.139.86.3) |
| 23:43.40 | osmosis_ | how come I dont see bluetooth listed? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 |
| 23:43.41 | Elrond | Aria - There's room for improvement _everywhere_. You can take nearly any cornor and do something good. :-) |
| 23:43.46 | linux_galore | I have a feeling some mobiles to a suspend to ram/flash on shutdown because when they crash and you reboot they take ages |
| 23:43.56 | linux_galore | s/to/do |
| 23:44.12 | pavelm_away | aria: I'd say the boottime is the least problem we have now. |
| 23:44.42 | pavelm_away | aria: I'd be more woried about "can I read sms" and.... |
| 23:44.43 | Aria | Oh, yeah, for sure. |
| 23:44.54 | Psi | osmosis_, that page is showing what you get, not whats in the phone |
| 23:45.05 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-30-64.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 23:45.10 | pavelm_away | ..."is resume fast enough that people won't hang up before you pick it up" :-) |
| 23:45.13 | Aria | I'll work on that as much as possible too. |
| 23:45.36 | Elrond | Aria - Well, pavelm is right, but anyway. As you're not paid (at least I assume so), you can choose any area to work on. :-) |
| 23:45.37 | Psi | except for the phase2 bit, and there is no need to mention BT there because P1 has it |
| 23:45.44 | pavelm_away | (actually good text input method would be wonderful.) |
| 23:46.08 | pavelm_away | (but we have worse problems then text input, too) |
| 23:46.10 | linux_galore | pavelm_away: case mod the phone and add a mini bt keyboard heh |
| 23:46.13 | Elrond | Aria - Or just play freeciv on the phone and do nothing on development. That's the freedom you have, when you buy hardware. ;-) |
| 23:46.36 | andylockran | freeciv working on neo now? |
| 23:46.53 | Elrond | andylockran - ph5 did it early. |
| 23:47.29 | andylockran | kewl.. |
| 23:47.31 | pavelm_away | linux: I already have my bt keyboard... |
| 23:47.35 | Elrond | andylockran - http://www.flickr.com/photos/ph5/417853278/in/photostream/ |
| 23:47.39 | pavelm_away | linux: sharp zaurus :-) |
| 23:47.47 | andylockran | I'm just setting up the dev environment to start learning how to do it all.. |
| 23:47.52 | pavelm_away | linux: bt keyboard that does ssh :-) |
| 23:47.55 | linux_galore | run one of the many games based on the free quake engine on the GTA02, now that will be fun |
| 23:47.56 | andylockran | any recommendations? |
| 23:48.22 | Elrond | andylockran - recommendations for what? |
| 23:48.26 | pavelm_away | andy: python/gtk is _very_ easy, see mokomenu.py example. |
| 23:48.32 | andylockran | thanks.. |
| 23:48.52 | andylockran | Elrond: where to start messing and learning stuff |
| 23:49.07 | andylockran | I'm just learning how to program, having only previously done linux sys admin |
| 23:49.28 | linux_galore | I like how you can do python/gtk stuff on the moko, means you can throw together a simple UI tool in a day or so |
| 23:49.30 | andylockran | I want to write a few simple apps for the neo.. so was wondering the best place to start |
| 23:49.38 | Elrond | andylockran - Just don't touch u-boot, if you get your neo. :-) |
| 23:49.46 | andylockran | tanks for the tip :p |
| 23:50.15 | Elrond | (if you break u-boot, you need the debug board to revive your neo.) |
| 23:50.27 | *** join/#openmoko bmk789 (n=Miranda@74-132-81-162.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 23:50.30 | Elrond | (everything else can be fixed without the debug board) |
| 23:50.32 | andylockran | just want to get my environment working on the laptop so I can make a very simple app |
| 23:50.35 | pavelm_away | www.sf.net/projects/tui ... mokomenu.py is useful and very simple to hack. Plus you can hack shell scripts on moko. |
| 23:50.37 | andylockran | Elrond: thanks.. |
| 23:50.42 | linux_galore | see how long it takes for someone to make a ssh UI with pygtk heh |
| 23:50.57 | andylockran | pavelm_away: thanks for the tips |
| 23:51.01 | cb22 | Python is rather fun :) |
| 23:51.02 | bmk789 | has anyone gotten a network bridge to openmoko in qemu to work? |
| 23:51.20 | andylockran | I like the idea of integrating the python jokes into the code |
| 23:51.29 | andylockran | that just made me want to learn the language |
| 23:51.30 | Elrond | Yes, python and pygtk are fun. I use that for gps analysing. |
| 23:51.46 | andylockran | Elrond: do you do anything for openstreetmap? |
| 23:52.00 | Elrond | andylockran - I was doing, yes. |
| 23:52.10 | Elrond | andylockran - I'm currently on osm-vacation. ;o) |
| 23:52.39 | andylockran | Elrond: kewl. How difficult will it be to create maps using the neo as the tracer? |
| 23:52.44 | linux_galore | when the GTA02 comes out the openmoko will be an network admins must have tool, 1001 shell/ui apps |
| 23:52.56 | cb22 | I'm just wondering here, my parents are going to the US in october, and I live in south africa, would it be worth it to get them to try and get the phone there, or am I better off ordering online? |
| 23:53.01 | andylockran | Is it a case of uploading your trace onto the site and laballing the roads? |
| 23:53.04 | linux_galore | doesnt the openmoko support X11 ? |
| 23:53.13 | andylockran | s/laballing/labelling/ |
| 23:53.21 | Elrond | andylockran - Currently... well, not more difficult then using a dumb gps mouse and your linux laptop. ;) |
| 23:54.02 | andylockran | ooh, so much more that just a phone.. |
| 23:54.05 | Elrond | linux_galore - Yes, it's all X11. |
| 23:54.34 | linux_galore | ssh+X11+wifi with access to a powerful PC = major wow factor, Yeah I play second life on my phone all the time, what you cant do that on your iphone |
| 23:54.42 | Elrond | andylockran - It's a full linux thingy. Running X11. Just only the RAM and FS are limited. |
| 23:55.23 | pavelm_away | andylock: mokomenu.py serves as a very dumb NMEA recorder... and moko is actually quite good gps. |
| 23:55.43 | pavelm_away | andy: It would be cool to add "type of road " buttons, and save position and type of button pressed. |
| 23:56.00 | linux_galore | yeah, the gps hacks will be the most fun |
| 23:56.20 | pavelm_away | andy: mokomenu currently only displays lan/lot, adding for example #of sattelites locked display would be cool. |
| 23:56.41 | Elrond | pavelm_away - Yeah and "average my current position", etc. I have seen the commercial handheld gps thingies. Oh well, I was considering to spend $$ on it. |
| 23:56.45 | linux_galore | although if you think about it the openmoko is so hackable it would be a great spy tool |
| 23:57.08 | andylockran | a mash up of all it's capabilities rolled into one app will be rather powerful |
| 23:57.32 | Elrond | linux_galore - spy tool? |
| 23:57.33 | andylockran | I like the idea of ringtone volume set on location |
| 23:58.13 | andylockran | turn it to a different ringtone in the office as compared to your home |
| 23:58.14 | linux_galore | Elrond: attach one to a car with a init script to sms the gps position back to another phone every 30 seconds |
| 23:58.32 | andylockran | linux_galore: could be expensive like that |
| 23:58.40 | cb22 | Even better, tell it to upload the data via GPRS |
| 23:58.44 | andylockran | why not just open up a gprs connection for tracking.. |
| 23:58.50 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@client-81-107-216-178.glfd.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 23:58.53 | andylockran | cb22: great minds think alike... |
| 23:58.59 | cb22 | agreed :) |
| 23:59.04 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 23:59.12 | Elrond | gprs and ssh into the phone. :-) |
| 23:59.40 | ozzloy | what providers can i use with the fic 1973? any gms? |
| 23:59.42 | linux_galore | or have a wifi scanner app looking for open routers |
| 23:59.42 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0A2E3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:59.46 | andylockran | Sorry for a n00b question, but once the mokomakefile has finished compiling - how far off will I be from loading the software as if in an emulator? |
| 23:59.49 | SpeedEvil | can't ssh into phones |
| 23:59.56 | Elrond | ozzloy - Check the wiki, please. |
