| 00:00.06 | Speedy2 | angstron, handheld.org, familiar, intimate, openembedded... |
| 00:00.09 | summatusmentis | reinventing infrastructure? |
| 00:00.15 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A0C21D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:00.23 | summatusmentis | angstrom is using openembedded, just like openmok |
| 00:00.25 | summatusmentis | openmoko* |
| 00:00.26 | Speedy2 | opie |
| 00:00.43 | notserpe | speedy2: do you write code, are you going to make "the software good"? |
| 00:00.47 | summatusmentis | there's opie in angstrom(tm issues, but yes) |
| 00:00.57 | Elrond | Speedy2 - Well... I think, openmoko has a better chance of getting more usable. |
| 00:01.11 | Speedy2 | notserpe: No, I'm not going to make the software "good" . I tried that with Zaurus, it was a waste. |
| 00:01.20 | Elrond | Speedy2 - But yes: I have my own "switch off phone" *.desktop, because the standard power-off is b0rked. ;-) |
| 00:01.40 | notserpe | was zaurus dev hardware ever $300? |
| 00:02.30 | summatusmentis | notserpe: zaurus wasn't built in a community like openmoko |
| 00:02.45 | *** join/#openmoko SBKch (n=SBKch@088156224081.sta.vectranet.pl) |
| 00:02.48 | notserpe | summatus: yep. I know. |
| 00:02.48 | summatusmentis | you had to buy the zaurus itself, w/ the sharp rom on it, then hack a different rom on yourself |
| 00:03.04 | Speedy2 | summatusmentis: No? What was OpenZaurus then? |
| 00:03.22 | *** join/#openmoko __k-s__ (n=gustavo@20150221010.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 00:03.30 | summatusmentis | Speedy2: it was not sanctioned by sharp in anyway, unlike openmoko |
| 00:03.31 | obscurite | zaurus was too fragmented - i was a moderator on oesf.org for openbsd for a while. there were too many distros and toolchains |
| 00:03.36 | duffyd | Speedy2: just the name of the distro that ran on top |
| 00:03.53 | obscurite | openmoko has a shot because it's homogeneous |
| 00:03.59 | obscurite | god help us if multiple distros start coming up |
| 00:04.06 | obscurite | :) |
| 00:04.17 | arachnid | Seems unlikely - that happened in response to having no 'official' distro |
| 00:04.25 | arachnid | And even if it does happen, they'll be niche. :) |
| 00:04.27 | summatusmentis | the issue, partially, was that the sharp rom blew |
| 00:04.49 | roh | obscurite i don't fear that.. on the contrary.. eventually universitys have other interrests than endusers, so it even would make sense |
| 00:05.04 | roh | obscurite but anyways.. the people who use it and code for it decide |
| 00:05.05 | summatusmentis | if openmoko is done right(which, at this point, it seems to be) everyone will be happy |
| 00:05.17 | summatusmentis | the hackers will have a distro they want, which will be the same as the end-user distro |
| 00:05.19 | obscurite | roh - i'm partly joking, but it'd be nice for all the work to be usable by all :) |
| 00:05.43 | Elrond | roh - I hope so (that the people who code for it, will be heard.) |
| 00:06.01 | roh | Elrond they are already. |
| 00:06.16 | Elrond | (Yes, I had too much experience with Not-Invented-Here projects...) |
| 00:07.21 | notserpe | i think werner and harald give alot of cred to the project. |
| 00:07.35 | roh | Elrond good parts of the staff who made this possible so far are recruited from various embedded linux projects and were always keeping our eyes open for new ideas and projects |
| 00:07.57 | Elrond | roh - Great. :-) |
| 00:08.05 | roh | Elrond thats a part of my job. keeping eyes and head open for other peoples ideas and opinions |
| 00:08.26 | *** part/#openmoko k|to_ (n=kito@dslb-084-063-062-097.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:08.28 | Elrond | roh - Super. :-) |
| 00:08.28 | roh | notserpe yeah. harald, sean and werner are the kick-ass-heros of the day |
| 00:09.22 | Elrond | roh - It's really one of the parts, why I like this project so much. People are just nice to each other. :-) |
| 00:10.41 | arachnid | roh: Can we expect much application software development from FIC? |
| 00:10.48 | arachnid | Or will it be an all-community effort? |
| 00:11.16 | roh | Elrond ive seen too many commercial projects who said they want to collaborate with opensource fail after the community gave up on it because they either pulled the funding or were 'evil'... thats why i started at openmoko. to once have the experience to do an opensource project together with others _right_. as it should be. open by heart not just by a licensing-sidenote |
| 00:11.52 | roh | arachnid openmoko will continue to develop on the applications. of course. |
| 00:12.33 | notserpe | roh: without those three, I'm not sure I would have tossed the money to FIC for the Adv and Base today but would have watched in the wings for a while. |
| 00:12.36 | roh | arachnid this is not intended as the usual 'build hardware, let the community do the job of the engineers'-scheme. there does not come any good out of that, just grief |
| 00:13.12 | summatusmentis | notserpe: you just bought both models? |
| 00:13.28 | roh | arachnid this means: the basic phone apps, pim etc will be developed further fully funded. of course we take patches, but we will not force the community to do the engineers tasks |
| 00:13.39 | notserpe | yep: one for another developer friend. |
| 00:13.54 | rwhitby | morning |
| 00:14.01 | roh | morning rwhitby |
| 00:15.08 | summatusmentis | notserpe: I see |
| 00:15.33 | notserpe | not sure I need the debug board but it will be nice to have. |
| 00:15.50 | Elrond | notserpe - the box looks fun. :-) |
| 00:16.14 | Elrond | Also *I* miss the pouch on my Bv03. ;-) |
| 00:16.38 | duffyd | hi roh, you may or may not be able to answer my question but I've placed 2 orders on openmoko.com and haven't received a confirmation email for either of them :-( |
| 00:17.43 | Elrond | duffyd - I'd (unoofficially!) say "give them a day to work through the myriad of orders". |
| 00:17.45 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@84-12-20-189.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:17.56 | roh | duffyd i can look it up if you tell me the email addr. you used |
| 00:17.56 | duffyd | ok |
| 00:18.16 | duffyd | roh: thanks! duffyd -at- kokorice.org |
| 00:18.42 | cesarb | rwhitby: you missed the madness |
| 00:19.24 | rwhitby | cesarb: I read the backlog :-) |
| 00:19.53 | xkr47 | :) |
| 00:20.01 | Elrond | Do we know, which u-boot is on the shipped phones? |
| 00:21.07 | roh | duffyd hm.. i cannot find the ticket. how long ago was it? |
| 00:21.35 | duffyd | roh: first order was at 6am (Taiwan time) second was at about 7am |
| 00:22.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Main_Page]] [[User:EsbenDamgaard]] [[Group_Order]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[PIM_Storage]] [[Bluetooth_Connection_Status]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:HadleyRich]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] and other changes |
| 00:22.08 | roh | duffyd did you get through to the 3rd page? |
| 00:22.15 | duffyd | roh: yes |
| 00:22.36 | duffyd | both times |
| 00:23.13 | duffyd | roh: I placed the order with Opera both times as FF seemed to have issues |
| 00:23.27 | duffyd | I can place another order with FF if you like |
| 00:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko brian__ (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 00:24.01 | duffyd | roh: I didn't put a ZIP code in, though, as I don't think there are any in Taiwan? |
| 00:24.06 | duffyd | I don't know what it would be anyway |
| 00:24.19 | roh | duffyd aaah... that could explain |
| 00:24.50 | roh | yeah.. error handling is quite .. eeeh.. ruff atm |
| 00:25.06 | duffyd | roh: what should I put for a ZIP code? |
| 00:25.14 | duffyd | as I don't think there are any here in Taiwan |
| 00:25.24 | Elrond | Apropos browser: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GPS seems to crash my FF 2.0.0.4... does that happen for anyone else? |
| 00:25.28 | Elrond | (OT) |
| 00:25.32 | roh | duffyd arent there destrict numbers? |
| 00:25.50 | cesarb | Elrond: opens fine for me |
| 00:25.54 | duffyd | not that I can see |
| 00:26.05 | Elrond | cesarb - strange. |
| 00:27.27 | obscurite | Elrond - works ok on my osx 2.0.0.4 |
| 00:28.02 | Elrond | Hmm, I'll update some libraries then... strange. |
| 00:28.18 | Elrond | Thanks for testing. :-) |
| 00:28.39 | duffyd | roh: ahhh, found them on a govt website |
| 00:28.43 | duffyd | I'll chuck it in now |
| 00:31.00 | obscurite | Man, choice between orange and silver is difficult. |
| 00:31.20 | roh | duffyd i can only guess when it comes to taiwanese addresses ;) when i was in taipeh i was using paper cards with chinese prints on it to let the cabdriver find out what i want |
| 00:31.39 | cesarb | not for me... orange is too visible, and it's not good to call attention to your gadgets |
| 00:31.40 | xkr47 | good night and thanks to anyone who helped P1 come true |
| 00:32.34 | *** part/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 00:32.49 | roh | cesarb eheh.. tell that to an apple customer with a shiny macbook under its arm and a iphone in the hand |
| 00:33.09 | duffyd | roh: 3rd order placed |
| 00:33.29 | duffyd | roh: I understand the language problem ;-) |
| 00:34.11 | duffyd | roh: btw do you know if it's true that if you're in Taiwan you can pick up a Neo direct from the Taipei offices? |
| 00:34.36 | cesarb | roh: I don't see anyone with a shiny macbook under its arm on the street, and it would be a rather foolish thing to try |
| 00:34.52 | cesarb | roh: of course, laptop carrying cases are less of a problem |
| 00:35.21 | obscurite | I use my extremely expensive macbook pro in public all the time. Then again, I have a deathwish. |
| 00:35.55 | duffyd | roh: are you able to confirm if that order went through? |
| 00:35.56 | mosno | obscurite: admit it, you just want to start fights :P |
| 00:35.57 | roh | duffyd dunno. you could ask in the comment field or via mail. i'm in germany right now... |
| 00:35.59 | duffyd | plz |
| 00:36.31 | roh | duffyd yeah. i see it |
| 00:36.48 | duffyd | great! |
| 00:36.58 | duffyd | roh: do you think I'll miss out because of the delay? |
| 00:37.28 | Psi_ | duffyd, wtf, you ordered again? |
| 00:37.38 | roh | duffyd nooo.. there are still enough as far as i can see |
| 00:37.42 | obscurite | roh, just submitted another order for you. :) |
| 00:37.57 | duffyd | Psi_: yeah, according to roh my previous orders didn't get through :-( |
| 00:38.18 | obscurite | roh - how many were made and how many are left? can you release that info? |
| 00:38.20 | Psi_ | ah, well if you know that, then thats ok :) |
| 00:38.24 | LetoTo | | tic: symbol lookup error: tic: undefined symbol: _nc_check_termtype |
| 00:38.36 | LetoTo | blech |
| 00:39.08 | Psi_ | roh, do you know whats happening with the colors? |
| 00:39.12 | Psi_ | ie who gets what? |
| 00:40.10 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 00:42.32 | borg_ | mh |
| 00:42.35 | Psi_ | just wondering if there is a definite color people get when they dont specify one |
| 00:42.40 | borg_ | i just ordered 2 neos |
| 00:42.49 | Psi_ | not that it matters for me, i put black/silver in the comments :) |
| 00:42.50 | borg_ | is there any possibility to choose the color? |
| 00:42.56 | *** part/#openmoko jHoNDoE (n=irc@ip70-162-61-201.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 00:43.13 | Psi_ | borg_, ya put it in the comments section |
| 00:43.18 | borg_ | ah |
| 00:43.19 | borg_ | uh |
| 00:43.21 | borg_ | :P |
| 00:43.23 | Elrond | Psi_ - Just state the color wish in the comment field. |
| 00:43.31 | Psi_ | yeah i did |
| 00:43.40 | borg_ | mh |
| 00:43.45 | Psi_ | i was just wondering what people who dont specify it get |
| 00:43.56 | Psi_ | if its random or always one color |
| 00:43.57 | borg_ | can i send an email or something like this? |
| 00:44.03 | Elrond | Psi_ - I hope they get soem email asking for color. ;-) |
| 00:44.05 | obscurite | wonder if I can use the neo toolchain on vmware on my mac... |
| 00:44.20 | obscurite | sorry, openmoko toolchain |
| 00:44.43 | roh | Psi_ yeah. big fuckup the color thingie.. just specify it in a reply on the ticket or the comment field if you havent ordered |
| 00:45.13 | roh | Psi_ we fscked up the form and i do not want to touch it now *watching the counter* |
| 00:45.17 | cesarb | roh: any chance the currently self-signed certificate could be changed to a cacert certificate on direct.openmoko.com? A self-signed certificate doesn't protect against MITM, while a cacert one does |
| 00:45.21 | galexande | omg what if i get a gray one!! |
| 00:45.38 | roh | Psi_ worldwide shipping, billing and CC handling is so much pain we just wanted to get it done and totally forgot about colors |
| 00:45.48 | Elrond | roh - Can you make sure, that people, who haven't specified a color, get asked for the color? :-) |
| 00:45.56 | Psi_ | roh, its ok, we forgive you :) |
| 00:46.16 | roh | cesarb its not cacert? we will fix that of course |
| 00:46.17 | Psi_ | Elrond, yes, that would be a good idea |
| 00:46.40 | cesarb | roh: it's self-signed... else my firefox wouldn't warn (I have the cacert root) |
| 00:46.57 | roh | Elrond yes. propably we will mail these people as soon as we see any land.. currently the rt is generating tickets faster than i can click on next |
| 00:47.07 | galexande | mokomakefile gives me: | ----------- ERROR ----------- | Cannot find/read SableVM classes. Please report. | | make[4]: *** [gnu/gettext/GettextResource.class] Error 1 |
| 00:47.20 | cesarb | roh: demand greater than expected? ;-) |
| 00:47.44 | Elrond | roh - I just wanted to make sure, it's not getting lost in the chaos. :-) |
| 00:48.03 | cesarb | (just wait until slashdot hears about it...) |
| 00:48.57 | Elrond | Anyway. Good night people. :-) |
| 00:49.18 | obscurite | Where can I grab the toolchain, etc? |
| 00:50.08 | arachnid | Psi_: You gave in and ordered? |
| 00:50.12 | obscurite | I guess I just want OE. |
| 00:50.16 | Psi_ | arachnid, yes |
| 00:50.26 | Psi_ | because its actually still cheaper than i budgeted |
| 00:50.33 | Psi_ | because of the US-NZ exchange rate atm |
| 00:51.27 | arachnid | Yeah, nice exchange rate. :) |
| 00:51.31 | Psi_ | yep |
| 00:52.08 | rwhitby | obscurite: mokomakefile |
| 00:52.40 | arachnid | Still going to have to pay GST and handling (and worse, wait longer) unless they'll mark it as a sample or gift for me. :) |
| 00:53.27 | Psi_ | i put something like "please indicate its a linux phone development kit" in the comments section |
| 00:53.43 | Psi_ | ie. on the customs form |
| 00:53.49 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 00:54.10 | arachnid | I asked if they could mark it as a gift or otherwise discount the price. |
| 00:54.17 | Psi_ | dad does some work out in the NZ intl mail center on the xray machines and said it may help them to ignore it |
| 00:54.27 | arachnid | Asking for it to be marked as a sample or, as you said, development kit, would've been better. :/ |
| 00:54.37 | arachnid | The delay bothers me more than the price. :P |
| 00:55.47 | Psi_ | apparently at the akl mail center they just ignore everything unless it looks like it may have drugs in it, then they open it, if no drugs they charge gst cos they may as well since they have already half processed it |
| 00:56.03 | arachnid | heh |
| 00:56.14 | arachnid | I thought they always charged on stuff costing more than $400 |
| 00:56.17 | arachnid | (More than $50GST) |
| 00:56.35 | Psi_ | but he said they are often letting stuff go through that's over a grand without charging gst simply because of whats in it (xray) and who its from |
| 00:56.53 | arachnid | huh. |
| 00:56.59 | hads | Depends how it gets shipped. We've had probably around 5 boxes a year opened and inspected. |
| 00:57.01 | arachnid | One can only hope. :) |
| 00:57.02 | Psi_ | well, this is the AKL mail centre, your one may be more picky, maybe they dont have as much stuff to process so have more time to check it all |
| 00:57.23 | arachnid | From looking at trakcing on stuff I've ordered in the past, I think all intl mail goes through the akl mail center for customs anyway |
| 00:57.33 | Psi_ | hads out of how many? |
| 00:58.04 | hads | Psi_: Probably a couple of hundred or so. |
| 00:58.12 | Psi_ | thats pretty good odds |
| 00:58.26 | hads | Yeah, actually that's probably an overestimate. |
| 00:58.36 | Psi_ | the ones that got inspected, anything odd about them? |
| 00:58.37 | hads | Maybe 100-150/year |
| 00:58.52 | *** join/#openmoko xanalogica (n=jeff@adsl-68-95-135-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 00:59.02 | arachnid | Hm. I have renewed hope. :) |
| 00:59.17 | hads | Nope, nothing interesting about any of the shipments. |
| 01:00.07 | hads | The benefit of importing is having accounts so the GST gets charged and it doesn't hold up the shipment :) |
| 01:00.08 | Psi_ | dad said hand written address get more attention than printed ones |
| 01:00.18 | ajmitch | hads: got any more interested in a group order? |
| 01:00.38 | Psi_ | since they get a lot of people trying to send over stuff like food, to family members etc.. |
| 01:01.02 | hads | ajmitch: Not so far, waiting on a group of 4 others who expressed interest 6 months ago. |
| 01:01.21 | arachnid | Huh, I only just noticed how fancy the stylus is. :) |
| 01:01.28 | Psi_ | url? |
| 01:01.56 | arachnid | http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-00-stdkit.html |
| 01:01.59 | arachnid | Click on 'stylus' on the left |
| 01:02.22 | obscurite | arachnid - yah, laser pointer ;) |
| 01:02.28 | Psi_ | nice |
| 01:02.39 | Psi_ | i forgot about the laser pointer |
| 01:02.40 | arachnid | Pretty darn fancy. |
| 01:02.43 | Psi_ | that was in one of the videos |
| 01:02.43 | ajmitch | hah, nice |
| 01:02.47 | arachnid | I was expecting a bit of cast plastic. :) |
| 01:02.52 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 01:03.07 | obscurite | if only it were controllable via bluetooth |
| 01:03.10 | Psi_ | what are those 3 bits do you think? |
| 01:03.14 | obscurite | you could have a moko-laser-light-show |
| 01:03.18 | Psi_ | haha |
| 01:03.24 | arachnid | Psi_: batteries |
| 01:03.32 | Psi_ | oh, yeah just read it |
| 01:04.02 | ajmitch | powerful, "266HZ Samsung" |
| 01:04.08 | obscurite | Is anyone doing data calls on it yet? |
| 01:06.25 | summatusmentis | I've seen ideas for an alternate casing, removing the big hole in the bottom. Could that space be occupied by an extended screen, if one were to purchase it? |
| 01:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@64.241.37.140) |
| 01:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s_ (n=gustavo@20150221010.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
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| 01:18.25 | DukeOfUrl | there's a mic somewhere in that hole... |
| 01:19.02 | _alcik_ | and the gsm antenna i think... |
| 01:20.40 | summatusmentis | really? the pictures of the board looks like there's nothing below the upper edge(the flat part) |
| 01:21.23 | arachnid | No, not really. It's a cellphone without a microphone. |
| 01:21.46 | arachnid | You listen to people and type your responses back. They get synthesized using festival. |
| 01:22.30 | _alcik_ | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 4th and last picture |
| 01:22.39 | summatusmentis | arachnid: :-) I'm just a newb, no worries |
| 01:22.51 | arachnid | don't worry, I'm just being facetious. ;) |
| 01:23.14 | summatusmentis | arachnid: I know, and _alcik_ just showed me that I'm wrong, so... |
| 01:24.44 | arachnid | I meant to say that I'm being facetious, not sarcastic. :) |
| 01:26.22 | summatusmentis | damn, the mic is in the way. if it weren't, you could still use a larger screen... |
| 01:27.17 | *** part/#openmoko _alcik_ (n=kahuna@chello089078040207.chello.pl) |
| 01:27.33 | ajmitch | the cost of getting a larger screen manufactured for a (potentially) small userbase could be a lot |
| 01:28.01 | summatusmentis | ajmitch: true, but I'm sure someone is already selling some form of larger screen |
| 01:28.30 | arachnid | For the openmoko? I doubt it. |
| 01:28.41 | summatusmentis | w/ some standard connector? |
| 01:28.47 | arachnid | oh |
| 01:28.51 | ajmitch | you'd also need to have everything else built around the larger screen |
| 01:28.59 | arachnid | USB or bluetooth would be the only candidates |
| 01:29.08 | arachnid | And there's no standard way to address such an external display, so I doubt it |
| 01:29.44 | ajmitch | unless there was some small DVI connector, which would be rather unlikely |
| 01:29.54 | summatusmentis | arachnid: it'd be a replacement screen, as compared to an external one |
| 01:30.10 | summatusmentis | and ajmitch, yes, I realize the casing, etc. would need to be rebuilt |
| 01:30.17 | arachnid | summatusmentis: Then you'd have to - somehow - unsolder the existing screen to replace it |
| 01:30.23 | arachnid | Hardly a practical procedure for most |
| 01:30.31 | summatusmentis | is it soldered? |
| 01:30.55 | summatusmentis | there are pics of the GTA01 device where someone is holding the screen above the board |
| 01:31.47 | arachnid | I could be wrong - perhaps it has a ribbon connector |
| 01:31.58 | arachnid | But it seems to fit into the board pretty snugly |
| 01:32.12 | arachnid | I think a different device (they are planned) would be a more practical solution |
| 01:32.12 | summatusmentis | this is all purely hypothetical... hrm |
| 01:32.44 | summatusmentis | I'll probably have to wait for the next gen of devices anyway(locked into a cdma contract, college student, etc.) |
| 01:33.36 | ajmitch | a good thing that telecom in NZ are moving towards GSM |
| 01:33.36 | summatusmentis | the cell providers in US are stupid |
| 01:34.17 | unknown_lamer | t-mo is the least retarded and they are still pretty stupid |
| 01:34.32 | ajmitch | arachnid: so do I, but it means more people able to use this |
| 01:34.42 | arachnid | true |
| 01:35.07 | summatusmentis | thanks guys, be back later, maybe |
| 01:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 01:35.56 | galexande | the screen does have a ribbon cable |
| 01:39.03 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-214.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:46.43 | Jason1 | Anybody have any idea on how many Neos have been ordered? |
| 01:47.01 | Psi_ | we know how many orders have been made |
| 01:47.09 | arachnid | (roughly) |
| 01:47.10 | Psi_ | but we dont know how many phones |
| 01:47.22 | Jason1 | how many? |
| 01:47.37 | galexande | well, we know at least 130 orders |
| 01:47.43 | galexande | assuming they aren't being funny with the numbers |
| 01:48.13 | Jason1 | I think I got darn near the first one. Whats the highest order number you have seen? |
| 01:48.24 | DukeOfUrl | 1970 |
| 01:48.25 | Psi_ | 2019 |
| 01:48.40 | galexande | so is there java on openmoko, or is java just needed by mokomakefile 'just because'? |
| 01:48.52 | galexande | wow, that would be 200 psi |
| 01:48.58 | Psi_ | yep |
| 01:49.07 | roh | galexande the ticket ids are not saying anything. they are just unique, incremental and not only used for orders/shipping |
| 01:49.16 | Psi_ | and some people will have order 2 or more |
| 01:49.34 | Jason1 | Psi_: it should still give us a rough idea. |
| 01:49.40 | *** part/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@64.241.37.140) |
| 01:49.55 | DukeOfUrl | what is the ship date for US orders? |
| 01:50.07 | Psi_ | if you import the buying interest list into excel you could get an avg for the number of phone per order |
| 01:50.19 | galexande | psi, but there's hardly any data there |
| 01:50.47 | Jason1 | according to the community list it may be as late as the 16th |
| 01:51.00 | Psi_ | galexande, there is 342 entries |
| 01:51.25 | galexande | i guess i don't know what you're talking about :) |
| 01:51.32 | galexande | jason, as early as the 16th :) |
| 01:51.43 | Psi_ | galexande, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List |
| 01:51.46 | roh | Jason1 japp.. shipping can take a few days |
| 01:51.54 | Psi_ | unoffical list of what people intended to buy |
| 01:52.23 | Jason1 | Yeah. I understand that the units are still in China. sitting in customs waiting to be airmailed to California |
| 01:52.25 | Psi_ | it will be pretty close to 1 per order |
| 01:52.33 | Psi_ | maybe 1.1 or 1.05 |
| 01:53.01 | galexande | wow, so it might actually sell out |
| 01:53.04 | galexande | thank god i'm like 20 in line |
| 01:53.25 | DukeOfUrl | a better question is: how many orders are from users v. how many from people trying to build a business with this phone... |
| 01:53.34 | Jason1 | galexande: always an optimist |
| 01:54.01 | Psi_ | i doubt anyone will do mass business orders of the development version |
| 01:54.45 | DukeOfUrl | that's not what I asked. how many here have ordered a phone to serve as a prototype for some business. |
| 01:54.46 | arachnid | Yeah, I don't think anyone is going to be selling these retail |
| 01:54.49 | Jason1 | DukeOfURL: could be |
| 01:54.55 | arachnid | DukeOfUrl: What sort of business,exactly? |
| 01:54.58 | Psi_ | galexande, afaik they have like 1000 phones |
| 01:55.03 | DukeOfUrl | any business |
| 01:55.08 | Psi_ | so 200/1000 is still fine |
| 01:55.18 | arachnid | can you think of any sort of business you'd found based on buying a phone? |
| 01:55.29 | arachnid | If you're planning on writing software for it, you can use emulators etc |
| 01:55.31 | Jason1 | arachnid: Lots of business potential here... GPS related services, etc |
| 01:55.46 | DukeOfUrl | location aware apps., etc. |
| 01:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484D54F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 01:55.52 | arachnid | Jason1: Sure, but they don't require buying a phone, and they'll be mostly from existing companies adding a new platform |
| 01:55.56 | DukeOfUrl | vehicle tracking |
| 01:55.56 | Psi_ | alot of potential, but high risk in using a development version |
| 01:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:56.28 | DukeOfUrl | you're missing the point. who here plans to make a business using the Neo? |
| 01:56.30 | Psi_ | id imagine some business might be ordering a few phones to start development on |
| 01:56.35 | Jason1 | arachnid: true, Although I would imagine you might want a few development/test units. |
| 01:56.48 | arachnid | true |
| 01:57.21 | arachnid | But I don't think it terribly likely that many are going to start a business based on one device |
| 01:57.45 | arachnid | Porting a commercial package to this device, certainly, but not starting one based on it, given its unknown market potential, and the huge number of mobile devices out there |
| 01:57.49 | DukeOfUrl | on a Linux-based cell phone? |
| 01:58.16 | arachnid | Why restrict your business to one linux based cellphone when you can make your product work on many and just port it to OpenMoko? |
| 01:58.21 | DukeOfUrl | I plan on starting a business using the Neo as a vehicle to sell services |
| 01:58.23 | galexande | psi, but my name isn't on the list of 342 buyers...so there's no good way to estimate how many people like me will buy it without anouncing our intentions |
| 01:58.46 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 01:58.52 | Psi_ | very true, i was just saying it could give an average |
| 01:58.59 | Jason1 | galexande: shame on you for not adding yourself to the list |
| 01:59.01 | galexande | heh |
| 01:59.14 | cesarb | Jason1: some people are shy... |
| 01:59.27 | arachnid | DukeOfUrl: I wish you luck. I think, though, that services are far more useful when they're not restricted to a single device, no matter how good that device is |
| 01:59.37 | Psi_ | then ya can apply that avg to the current number of orders and take an educated guess at the number of phones sold |
| 02:00.03 | DukeOfUrl | fine. wha other device allows access to GPS? GPRS? WiFi? |
| 02:00.06 | galexande | wow so today a bunch of nerds spent like $60-90k on phones |
| 02:00.12 | galexande | pretty awesome, a force to be reckoned with |
| 02:00.17 | arachnid | Any number of CE based devices |
| 02:00.40 | Jason1 | galexande: correction: A bunch of COOL nerds, spent |
| 02:00.52 | galexande | jason, speak for yourself |
| 02:00.56 | arachnid | Many cellphones, though you'll have to go through the manufacturers and/or networks to get it deployed |
| 02:01.00 | Jason1 | galexande: LOl |
| 02:01.00 | arachnid | s/nerds/geeks ;) |
| 02:01.31 | Jason1 | roh: may have already passed |
| 02:01.43 | roh | Jason1 nope. |
| 02:01.48 | DukeOfUrl | CE devices? |
| 02:01.56 | DukeOfUrl | are you kidding? |
| 02:01.57 | roh | Jason1 i have exactly 199 tickets in front of me |
| 02:02.13 | Jason1 | rih: ohh. Didnt realize you were someone important :) |
| 02:02.14 | ajmitch | DukeOfUrl: not really, I've done coding for one of those |
| 02:02.24 | galexande | roh, you've always been important to me |
| 02:02.33 | Psi_ | haha |
| 02:02.49 | ajmitch | DukeOfUrl: though it did involve writing to various serial ports to access the devices |
| 02:02.54 | Jason1 | roh: what number did hte tickets start at? |
| 02:03.04 | Psi_ | roh, 1 ticket per phone or per order? |
| 02:03.06 | DukeOfUrl | anyhow, the Neo is only the first of many devices... |
| 02:03.09 | roh | Jason1 i'm not important ;) im just glad to work here on this cool project |
| 02:03.15 | roh | Psi_ per order |
| 02:03.21 | arachnid | Psi_: He did say 200th customer, not 200th order :) |
| 02:03.41 | arachnid | DukeOfUrl: Yup, and I hope they do very well indeed, but they still have totally unproven market potential |
| 02:03.55 | roh | Jason1 its just our normal RT ticketnumber. given out for every mail. so it also increments when spam enters a unrelated queue |
| 02:04.09 | DukeOfUrl | and that's what this community needs to do--open new markets |
| 02:04.10 | galexande | i think this phone could really be superior, for the end user, compared to iphone |
| 02:04.14 | carrar | rt rocks |
| 02:04.26 | Jason1 | roh: I know... I just wanted to see how close I was to the first order, roughly speaking |
| 02:04.30 | arachnid | Linux phones could become the dominant type of phones, with everyone owning one - I hope so - but they might not, and I wouldn't want to found a business based on a development release of a phone with unknown potential, personally. |
| 02:04.30 | roh | DukeOfUrl no hurries.. were on it |
| 02:04.52 | arachnid | That is, a business depending on those phones, not even manufacturing them |
| 02:04.54 | DukeOfUrl | why do you want to compete with iPhone? let's innovate new stuff... |
| 02:05.00 | Jason1 | roh: I think you will find my order very close to the top of the list |
| 02:05.12 | happycube | i hope i'm not actually #2047... i'd be waiting a while! |
| 02:05.15 | happycube | ;) |
| 02:05.32 | arachnid | Hey, that's a lucky number. ;) |
| 02:05.41 | roh | Jason1 whats your ticketnumber? |
| 02:05.41 | happycube | moto is moving to linux phones this year but they're not so open |
| 02:05.42 | Jason1 | arachnid: :) |
| 02:05.46 | galexande | i don't think features are the problem with smart phones, i think it's the fact that the obvious flaws amke you want to fling the thing across the room |
| 02:05.50 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gopi@64.213.69.62) |
| 02:05.54 | Jason1 | roh: 1820 |
| 02:05.58 | Psi_ | 2048 would be a geek lucky number :P |
| 02:06.02 | bhima | Wow, you can buy it! |
| 02:06.12 | ajmitch | Psi_: count from 0 :) |
| 02:06.16 | roh | Jason1 then you really got the first order through |
| 02:06.25 | galexande | bhima, you might be order 200 if you move quick |
| 02:06.29 | Psi_ | ajmitch, hehe |
| 02:06.31 | Jason1 | WOW! Awesome!!! |
| 02:06.32 | arachnid | Psi_: Well, 2047 is too - largest number representable in 10 bits. :) |
| 02:06.34 | roh | too late.. 202 now |
| 02:06.45 | bhima | I have an iPhone already. :/ |
| 02:06.55 | Jason1 | bhima: :( |
| 02:07.28 | roh | bhima you can still start reverse engineering it ;) |
| 02:07.37 | bhima | start? |
| 02:07.43 | roh | its just much more work |
| 02:07.47 | tuukkah | bhima, buy an openmoko to be its friend and you get a mobile dual-screen setup :-) |
| 02:07.54 | bhima | I'm only poking around a little bit. |
| 02:07.57 | roh | bhima ok.. propably someone else already started |
| 02:08.44 | tuukkah | bhima, see you can have lots and lots of nice toys :-) |
| 02:08.48 | DukeOfUrl | do you have a GI-issue pistol belt to carry all those phones? |
| 02:08.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03werner * r2373 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: |
| 02:08.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: - bumped PR |
| 02:08.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: - use "find" to locate lowlevel_foo, instead of trying to predict path name |
| 02:08.59 | bhima | DukeOfUrl: Cargo shorts. |
| 02:09.14 | DukeOfUrl | w/ big pockets :-) |
| 02:09.39 | bhima | My pen has two processors. |
| 02:09.58 | DukeOfUrl | bhima: when you want to make a call, how do you decide which phone to use??? |
| 02:10.09 | jaebird | bhima: you should still have time to return the iphone! |
| 02:10.15 | bhima | DukeOfUrl: Nokia 770 and N800 aren't phones.... |
| 02:10.21 | arachnid | roh: So do you have your own one to play with yet? ;) |
| 02:10.24 | DukeOfUrl | oh |
| 02:10.30 | bhima | The iPhone, UI-wise, blows away everything else I've ever touched. |
| 02:10.36 | bhima | And its browser is astoundingly good. |
| 02:11.03 | arachnid | If it weren't for the huge number of drawbacks (and lack of availablilty over here), I'd be tempted |
| 02:11.07 | roh | arachnid of course ;) |
| 02:11.10 | Jason1 | bhima: Give us a little time. and you will be sayign the samething about OpenMoko and its familtyof devices |
| 02:11.12 | bhima | I think I will get a wifi enabled openmoko device when it ships. |
| 02:11.24 | arachnid | But the iPhone is less open than your average closed phone. |
| 02:11.34 | happycube | i think steve's tivoizing his own mac line... look at appletv too |
| 02:11.38 | galexande | i must confess, mokomakefile is pretty slick. |
| 02:11.43 | roh | arachnid an older prototype with broken bt... hopefully i will get a release one soon also |
| 02:11.49 | arachnid | roh: cool |
| 02:12.08 | bhima | Jason1: I think you'll have the feature part down, but, please don't take this the wrong way. The UI on the iPhone is more polished and effective than _any_ other UI, with lots and lots of engineers on their projects. |
| 02:12.11 | happycube | there's really no reason iphone couldn't also be macphone |
| 02:13.00 | bhima | I think that Apple set out a specific, minimal list of features for the iPhone and said "nothing but those, period. Finish them and then keep polishing them over and over" |
| 02:13.04 | arachnid | bhima: We can be 'inspired' by the iPhone, an advantage no previous cellphone developer has had ;) |
| 02:13.12 | obscurite | funny, iphone discussion here, meanwhile i started an openmoko discussion on the iphone hacking channel ;) |
| 02:13.20 | happycube | the whole network security thing... if that was true there'd be wince apps that would've blown open the cell networks already |
| 02:13.30 | happycube | bhima - yeah... |
| 02:13.36 | Jason1 | bhima: I agree, it is VERY slick. of course as close as I have come to it is the TV ads and YouTube. However, I dont know that more engineers = better product |
| 02:13.58 | Jason1 | arachnid: true, true |
| 02:14.08 | bhima | Jason1: UIQ doesn't have many engineers. Their UI sucks. :) |
| 02:14.18 | bhima | But, more engineers, yeah. Not a good idea. |
| 02:14.24 | bhima | Network security is a silly excuse. |
| 02:14.32 | roh | happycube you can ignore the network security stuff. its just FUD from people who seem not to have a clue about the technology (regardless of politics) |
| 02:14.44 | bhima | Network traffic however, given the initial sales volume, would be an issue. |
| 02:15.24 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: Werner Almesberger <werner at openmoko.org> Re: why no lowlevel_foo for gtaXX ? |
| 02:15.24 | bhima | I'd like to pair an iPhone with an openmoko wifi enabled device. |
| 02:16.39 | bhima | When I'm travelling internationally, I would _really_ like the flexibility to do bizarre stuff. |
| 02:16.50 | bhima | Like having a phone with a VoIP interface at my hotel room. |
| 02:17.05 | bhima | Dial a number on my phone, route the call over mobile-mobile to the room, dial over VOIP |
| 02:20.45 | linux_galore | yeah, allot of airport lounges now have wifi |
| 02:21.01 | galexande | a lot of them charge a ton for it too |
| 02:21.04 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@Mc441.m.pppool.de) |
| 02:21.13 | bhima | How easy is it to use fingers on the neo1973 screen? |
| 02:21.13 | linux_galore | meh..claim it back on tax |
| 02:21.41 | galexande | bhima, there are two sets of openmoko gui widgets, one is oriented for finger use and it is used in apps like the dialer |
| 02:21.55 | myk_ | obscurite: what's the general reaction to openmoko on the i phone hacking channel? |
| 02:22.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] |
| 02:22.20 | bhima | Physically? |
| 02:22.46 | linux_galore | galexande: when your an exec or engineer on $200p/hr paying $$$ for wifi at the airport in not a big deal |
| 02:22.58 | weez | obscurite: what server is that channel on? |
| 02:23.11 | linux_galore | is* |
| 02:23.42 | happycube | i wonder how many phones have been ordered (i'd be shocked if everyone ordered just 1) |
| 02:23.47 | obscurite | myk_ - no general consensus, but some prefer the reverse engineering of the iphone and the fact that it already works well |
| 02:23.57 | obscurite | weez - irc.osx86.hu #iphone |
| 02:24.17 | obscurite | there are a few other iphone hacking channels, that's a general discussion one |
| 02:24.24 | weez | ahhhh |
| 02:24.32 | weez | thanks |
| 02:24.52 | bhima | Other than the explicit locks in place, I think the iPhone is, from a user layer standpoint, probably one of the most open phones out there. |
| 02:25.08 | bhima | It looks like it has a fairly standard UNIX implementation + custom GUI frameworks. |
| 02:25.23 | linux_galore | heh, hacking the iphone is like hacking a safe with a drill then saying, ooh look how much better my swiss cheese safe is |
| 02:25.48 | bhima | And unlike the motorola Linux phones, it doesn't have everything strangely implemented within entire apps rather than with APIs. |
| 02:26.13 | galexande | bhima, i had a samsung palmos phone, and the palmos side of it was as open as can be, but the dialer app was closed, and so you couldn't do anything about the factt that it was a shitty cellphone |
| 02:26.20 | obscurite | i'm sure the iphone will be a nice hacking platform with all the developers on the project. there's a lot of passion for apple hardware :) |
| 02:26.52 | galexande | obscurite, yeah if they bother to run linux on the ipod :) |
| 02:26.58 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 02:27.04 | linux_galore | obscurite: its still a crippled platform with apple doing firmware updates to stuff up any hacks |
| 02:27.07 | obscurite | galexande - exactly... a million monkeys on typewriters ;) |
| 02:27.07 | arachnid | bhima: All of that is totally irrelevant - yes, it's based on open technologies, but it's closed up tight |
| 02:27.45 | arachnid | All of that low-level stuff is no use, because you can't actually do anything with any of that short of hacking the phone |
| 02:27.47 | bhima | arachnid: People can write to arbitrary files on the file system right now... |
| 02:27.56 | linux_galore | obscurite: the iphone has the same logic to it as the Sony PSP, Sony "yes everyone is welcome to hack it until we say no" that didnt last long |
| 02:28.12 | arachnid | bhima: Only by hacking it and exploiting bugs. That's not 'open' |
| 02:28.20 | obscurite | I have a feeling the iphone will have a nice toolchain and a larger dev community than openmoko |
| 02:28.25 | galexande | bhima, but can they call gsmd_dial("18001234567"); or do they have to hack Dialer.app ? |
| 02:28.29 | obscurite | But openmoko is a different animal, and one I prefer |
| 02:28.32 | bhima | arachnid: Oh, yes. I'm not trying to say that it's open. |
| 02:28.54 | linux_galore | obscurite: you mean with its none existent SDL lol doubt it |
| 02:29.00 | bhima | I'm saying that if it gets hacked in the way that I think it will, it will be pretty decent. |
| 02:29.07 | obscurite | linux_galore - with that many obsessed hackers it's a matter of time :) |
| 02:29.31 | carrar | bhima, people already have shell on the iPhone |
| 02:29.40 | arachnid | < bhima> Other than the explicit locks in place, I think the iPhone is, from a user layer standpoint, probably one of the most open phones out there. |
| 02:29.43 | arachnid | What was that? :) |
| 02:29.58 | linux_galore | obscurite: Apple has never been pro third party, Apple have always had a "do it our way or take the high road" they are worse than Microsoft on this |
| 02:30.00 | bhima | carrar: They have limited bootloader access.... |
| 02:30.04 | galexande | arachnid, i thhink he was comparing it to wince phones :) |
| 02:30.06 | *** part/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:30.07 | arachnid | bhima: If you have to hack it, it's not open, though |
| 02:30.09 | obscurite | linux_galore - time will tell I suppose |
| 02:30.10 | myk_ | i'm actually pretty happy that apple released the iPhone, because i think it's the best possible competition for openmoko |
| 02:30.19 | roh | please.. come down a bit |
| 02:30.24 | carrar | bhima, pretty good for the time it's been in the public I would say |
| 02:30.32 | roh | its not pro or con iphone or moko |
| 02:30.43 | arachnid | galexande: I would call a wince phone more open. Neither one gives you legitimate access to the kernel or the source, but at least the ce phone lets you write software for it. |
| 02:31.10 | galexande | god once i got a palmtop, and the linux kernel supported it but there was no bootloader, so all i had to do was write a wince bootloader, maybe 20 hours of work |
| 02:31.14 | obscurite | linux_galore - now osx can even run my sony ux280p (http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3611592967008496528) |
| 02:31.15 | myk_ | it not only inspires openmoko development, its development model provides the starkest contrast to openmoko's |
| 02:31.18 | galexande | but i couldn't stand to write for wince, even that long |
| 02:31.21 | bhima | arachnid: I stand by my statement....Motorola's Linux phones had device drivers built into the applications that used them, iirc. |
| 02:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko ExxonValdeez (n=Josh@cpe-76-186-34-249.tx.res.rr.com) |
| 02:31.38 | bhima | A policy decision by Apple would make the iPhone one of the easiest to develop for IMHO. |
| 02:31.39 | linux_galore | obscurite: there are some pretty powerful HTC/Toshiba WinCE phones out now ie Toshiba G900 |
| 02:31.43 | roh | just think about redistribution of binarys a moment.. how are the libs on both systems licenced? and what is with code which links against them. so even if you open some closed device and get a toolchain to work it does not mean you can redistribute every thing you build everywhere |
| 02:32.01 | arachnid | Possibly, but they didn't make that decision, and don't look likely to |
| 02:32.16 | obscurite | linux_galore - yeah, I'm a big fan of HTC |
| 02:32.24 | arachnid | You could say the same for any other phone with software written by the manufacturer, too. |
| 02:33.07 | arachnid | An iPhone is open in the same sense that your chest is open - it requires a surgeon and a whole lot of tools, and isn't tenable for most people. ;) |
| 02:33.14 | linux_galore | obscurite: the HTC phones Ive seen are pretty amazing (3D graphics) and have a pile more options that the iphone |
| 02:33.27 | bhima | arachnid: That's not true, though. The UIQ phone I developed for, SE P800, integrated its WAP stack with the browser, so you couldn't actually get access to any WAP calls. You needed to write your own WAP stack, for example. |
| 02:33.50 | arachnid | bhima: You can't get access to any of that on the iPhone either, because you can't write software for it at all! |
| 02:34.03 | happycube | bhima - that's nuts! |
| 02:34.26 | bhima | arachnid: Please pay attention to what I am saying. Policy vs. technical. |
| 02:34.39 | arachnid | bhima: Both are policy. |
| 02:34.44 | linux_galore | I think there are two major stuff ups though with the iphine 1. AT&T 2. Battery and maybe 3. camera with no flash or focus |
| 02:34.56 | bhima | arachnid: One _was_ policy that became technical. |
| 02:35.05 | roh | arachnid bhima is right. in theory and while completely ignoring licensing issues in theory its possible |
| 02:35.05 | arachnid | The iPhone is closed by policy, and I'm sure integrating the wap stack into the app wasn't purely technical |
| 02:35.17 | obscurite | linux_galore - no point in discussing the iphone drawbacks. everyone acknowledges it's got limited features, but the prettiness makes up for it. |
| 02:35.21 | roh | its just not feasible due to the amount of reverse-engineering needed |
| 02:35.23 | arachnid | At least when the restrictions is technical you can legally get around them |
| 02:35.29 | arachnid | roh: I'm not arguing it can't be done. |
| 02:35.34 | arachnid | I'm saying that it's not open if you have to pry it open |
| 02:35.43 | roh | same as with openezx. its easier to build a new phone than to reverse one where the manuf. does not help you |
| 02:35.49 | arachnid | And especially not if the result of your work is, at the end of the day, of dubious legality. |
| 02:35.54 | bhima | arachnid: I poked around the phone enough that I don't think they intended to do silly things like putting the WAP stack in the browser to make my life harder. |
| 02:36.08 | *** part/#openmoko xanalogica (n=jeff@adsl-68-95-135-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 02:36.20 | arachnid | bhima: No, but they didn't have to - by closing it to 3rd party developers, you can't develop software (legitimately, and in a supported manner) at all |
| 02:36.26 | linux_galore | arachnid: HTC actually has the same prettiness with some funky 3D effects ie menu swapping is just amazing |
| 02:36.37 | arachnid | linux_galore: Cool |
| 02:37.05 | arachnid | How much harder can they make your life than by prohibiting 3rd party apps altogether? |
| 02:37.13 | roh | let me say it this way: i life in germany where reverse engineering is legal as long as it was neccessary to archieve compatibility and even i would not put binarys linked agains libs on the iphone on my site |
| 02:37.16 | obscurite | At the end of the year I will have to face a touch decision. Upgrade to a new HTC or buy the next gen openmoko. We'll see how the next four months of hacking go. |
| 02:37.21 | roh | same with game consoles. |
| 02:37.23 | arachnid | roh: Exactly. :) |
| 02:37.32 | linux_galore | arachnid: firmware updates the stuff up any new hacks |
| 02:37.40 | linux_galore | that* |
| 02:37.56 | bhima | roh: There have been some pretty good legal decisions in the use allowign reverse engineering. |
| 02:38.05 | arachnid | yup |
| 02:38.12 | linux_galore | Sony did that with the PSP, firmware updates removed allot of the ability to hack the thing |
| 02:38.17 | arachnid | another example of "it's not open if you have to pry ie open" |
| 02:38.31 | roh | bhima yeah.. its one of the last nice places on earth when it comes to that |
| 02:38.49 | obscurite | openmoko will always be the ugly sister, but hopefully also the smarter sister ;) |
| 02:38.52 | ExxonValdeez | yeah, they pretty much have pried the psp totally open though, in terms of downgrading and running apps |
| 02:38.52 | bhima | I _vastly_ prefer the openness of the neo1973. Please don't misunderstand me. I know how fragile cracks are. |
| 02:39.14 | bhima | I meant to write, in the USA there have been some nice decisions. |
| 02:39.29 | bhima | sony v. connectix, the lexmark DMCA case. |
| 02:39.35 | linux_galore | Im hoping there is a case hacking community for the openmoko |
| 02:39.53 | linux_galore | Im going to make my own case out back in the lab when i get mine |
| 02:40.03 | roh | bhima could be,, but still you need some war money before leaning so much out of the window in the us. |
| 02:40.27 | bhima | roh: At least we have jurisdictional consolidation rules :P |
| 02:40.40 | roh | linux_galore if there is someone with a 3d cnc mill and a lot of time and money.... |
| 02:40.52 | obscurite | roh - can you release any figures, like how many units you're trying to sell? |
| 02:40.53 | linux_galore | give it a few months for the Chinese to start making alternate cases for the openmoko |
| 02:41.02 | linux_galore | or even cloning the thing |
| 02:41.10 | happycube | the psp firmware war is amusing |
| 02:41.20 | happycube | sony in their infinite stupidity didn't use an mmu ;) |
| 02:41.32 | roh | bhima hehe.. i still will not enter the us, uk or some other contries which have similar policies.. same with .au, sadly |
| 02:41.47 | bhima | They didn't use an mmu to be cheaper. |
| 02:41.57 | linux_galore | lookup the "tphone" its a iphone clone, it was released before apple even released the original item |
| 02:42.14 | roh | obscurite sorry, no.. i only know how many tickets there are, but not how many pieces per ticket there are without opening them one by one |
| 02:42.27 | bhima | In Germany, somebody can sue you in multiple jurisdictions, and keep the lawsuits going. You can't really force them to merge them into a single suit. Every country has its problems. |
| 02:42.38 | arachnid | Why do you need an mmu on something with no multi-tasking and no need for virtual memory? |
| 02:42.46 | roh | linux_galore will not happen so soon. chinese manufs have only a interest in stuff with _huge_ piececounts |
| 02:42.56 | obscurite | roh - will hundreds of people have the neo? thousands? trying to figure out how big the potential community is? |
| 02:43.22 | ExxonValdeez | its sucks that they didnt put an mmu in it, if they did there would be a much larger community around it because you would be able to run linux |
| 02:43.23 | *** join/#openmoko gresh_ (n=christop@Me059.m.pppool.de) |
| 02:43.40 | linux_galore | hmm openmoko could also sell "alternate case themes" for the users openmoko |
| 02:43.51 | arachnid | ExxonValdeez: Yeah, but Sony has made it clear that they want to actively discourage that. |
| 02:43.56 | bhima | iPhone clones as a concept amuse me. If you haven't tried an iPhone, you won't be able to actually properly clone it. |
| 02:43.59 | linux_galore | phone* |
| 02:44.04 | roh | obscurite as sean already said in the mails.. we now have about 400 + 600 or so till we restart the factory |
| 02:44.16 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 02:44.18 | obscurite | roh - thanks |
| 02:44.38 | *** join/#openmoko davi (n=davi@107.Red-88-14-161.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 02:44.39 | linux_galore | bhima: bet there is some chinese engineers pulling one apart as we sit here |
| 02:44.46 | roh | obscurite if we really run out of devices fast we can build more. just takes a bit of lead time but not as much as the inital runs took |
| 02:44.55 | anrp | theres nothing innovative hardware wise about the iphone |
| 02:45.01 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@67.Red-88-27-160.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 02:45.06 | anrp | except maybe the display, which if they wanted to clone they'd just look up patents |
| 02:45.14 | galexande | anrp, except the multitouch screen |
| 02:45.15 | arachnid | The display is pretty innovative |
| 02:45.19 | bhima | linux_galore: heh. Of course. And that will help them clone the iPhone as well as disecting Da Vinci will help you clone him. |
| 02:45.30 | linux_galore | galexande: multitouch screens are not actually new |
| 02:45.53 | galexande | sure, but, i've never seen one |
| 02:45.55 | arachnid | bhima: 'cept you can read an iPhone's memory, but you can't read Da Vinci's brain. :) |
| 02:46.02 | bhima | You've really go to spend some time with an iPhone in your hands to figure out how innovative and interesting it is. |
| 02:46.14 | linux_galore | galexande: I saw a multi touch sample in the lab about 3 years ago |
| 02:46.20 | arachnid | Anyway, using one and doing it black-box is probably a better approach for them |
| 02:46.31 | galexande | galore, see, they're bringing things from the lab to the marketplace. |
| 02:46.38 | galexande | that's more innovative than not doing that |
| 02:46.39 | roh | bhima the devil is in the detail.. also apple will need a few updates to get it right |
| 02:46.42 | anrp | doesn't really matter wrt patents :/ if its the same implementation, apple will sue |
| 02:46.56 | obscurite | Aside from multi-touch the other really new thing is adaptive UI. The boundaries of buttons actually dynamically grow or shrink appropriately given the context of your input. |
| 02:47.01 | galexande | like, there's nothing really innovative about the neo's hardware, but i'm still crazy about it |
| 02:47.11 | bhima | If you look at the basic goals of the device, the iPhone tries to do the same thing that many other phones have tried for many years. |
| 02:47.16 | obscurite | And apparently, the UI can learn your preferences passively. |
| 02:47.25 | roh | bhima but i must say i have deep respect for the userinterface they chose. the whole haptic stuff with slider and so. they dont use multitouch really, but hey.. thats for later ;) |
| 02:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko Skwid_ (n=Skwid@bas1-montreal42-1178046979.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:47.56 | roh | people should not see that as a war or fight. they do their thing, we do ours. |
| 02:47.56 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p548826D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:48.10 | ExxonValdeez | does anyone here have an iphone? |
| 02:48.18 | arachnid | Apple is definitely very good at UI |
| 02:48.29 | bhima | roh: I don't know how much multi-touch they can _really_ do, but they definitely are beyond what some people speculated, which was "size and center of all appendages onthe screen" |
| 02:48.32 | arachnid | And in fact, I like Apple a lot in general, since they switched to OSX |
| 02:48.36 | bhima | ExxonValdeez: I do. |
| 02:49.03 | ExxonValdeez | did you buy it on launch day? |
| 02:49.03 | roh | bhima what counts more is real-world usability. |
| 02:49.06 | arachnid | I just really dislike how closed (and exploitative, if you look at the AT&T end of things) the iPhone is |
| 02:49.12 | ExxonValdeez | yeah |
| 02:49.14 | hads | All the comparisons aren't really that interesting, just be happy that you can have an OSS phone, that's the cool bit. |
| 02:49.20 | bhima | roh: For example, I can scroll the way you could twist a wheel, one finger pushing, then touch the bottom with a second finger, then remove first, slide, etc. |
| 02:49.30 | roh | bhima thats why multitouch is overrated. who wants to have 2 hands on his phone or spread fingers to do stuff? |
| 02:49.40 | arachnid | However, it's a lot easier to clone Apple's UI genius by cloning an iPhone than it is to be as smart as their engineers and do it in the first place ;) |
| 02:49.55 | orospakr | yeah, multitouch has limited usefulness on a phone. A desktop is another story. |
| 02:50.05 | bhima | I think you can get 80% of the iPhone without multi-touch. |
| 02:50.07 | ExxonValdeez | bhima: do you plan on getting a neo? |
| 02:50.07 | linux_galore | arachnid: OSX is both good and also a failing 1. they are restricted by the failing of a micro kernel architecture, people are starting to get bored with the same theme after 6 years |
| 02:50.09 | bhima | Easily. |
| 02:50.22 | bhima | ExxonValdeez: With wifi, yes. If I had a spare SIM, probably sooner. :) |
| 02:50.29 | arachnid | I haven't seen any significant issues with OSX |
| 02:50.38 | orospakr | I have a old-arsed Nokia candybar. I intend to order a Neo this week. |
| 02:50.42 | *** join/#openmoko Chairboy (n=chatzill@c-24-22-81-82.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 02:50.44 | linux_galore | failings* |
| 02:50.48 | anrp | but.. shiny! and blue! |
| 02:50.51 | arachnid | And... getting sick of the same theme? Anyone that chooses their OS based on the theme probably isn't a very valuable customer anyway. |
| 02:50.53 | anrp | and .. yeah, thats how its been for a while |
| 02:50.55 | roh | bhima not that i wouldnt like the hw-feature, but i are not really sad about it. 3g, a solid case and a long living battery are much more important than multitouch or soft sliding animations |
| 02:51.10 | arachnid | I'd choose OSX Expose over XP or Vista any day, all else being equal. |
| 02:51.26 | Skwid_ | arachnid: you haven't used compiz :) |
| 02:51.28 | roh | and i think most of our customers agree with me on that when talking about where we want to go |
| 02:51.32 | anrp | i'd choose multi desktops ;/ |
| 02:51.40 | arachnid | roh: From what I've heard, both might be doable, if multitouch really is a driver issue. :) |
| 02:51.42 | orospakr | I can't remember, is 3g on the neo roadmap? |
| 02:51.46 | anrp | expose is neat but it only really works when you can visually identify windows |
| 02:51.48 | bhima | roh: The iphone's scase is very very solid. |
| 02:51.52 | ExxonValdeez | arachnid: yes, obviously you have not used compiz |
| 02:51.52 | anrp | so for a large number of terminals it doesn't help |
| 02:51.56 | linux_galore | Apple will soon have to have it own hybrid kernel same as Microsoft/Apple because sticking to a pure BSD kernel will cause some nasty restrictions |
| 02:52.10 | roh | arachnid no its a hw-feature and even apple has only pseudo-multitouch |
| 02:52.11 | linux_galore | grr |
| 02:52.21 | ExxonValdeez | bhima: yeah, i wish it had wifi, i understand why it didnt make it into the dev model |
| 02:52.28 | orospakr | linux_galore: ... they don't have a "pure BSD kernel". |
| 02:52.35 | arachnid | What's required in the hardware to support multitouch? |
| 02:52.44 | orospakr | They have a BSD emulation layer on top of Mach. |
| 02:52.56 | linux_galore | orospakr: its not a hybrid either |
| 02:52.59 | roh | arachnid they cannot detect 4 points where 3 are aligned to one axis of the screen and one is on the 90 degree line to one of the other 3 |
| 02:52.59 | galexande | arachnid, multitouch is like touchpads, a capacitive sensor... usually touch screens are two thin layers of plastic or glass which actually bend to touch eachother |
| 02:53.04 | arachnid | ExxonValdeez / Swkid: What does a linux window manager have to d owith my preference between windows and OSX? |
| 02:53.18 | linux_galore | Solaris/Microsoft have shifted to a hybrid kernel |
| 02:53.21 | ExxonValdeez | i have no idea, i wasnt really following the conversation |
| 02:53.27 | arachnid | roh: Sure - like ghosting in keyboards - it's a scan matrix |
| 02:53.34 | arachnid | But two touches is enough for most stuff |
| 02:53.38 | ExxonValdeez | arachnid: i was just making a comment |
| 02:53.53 | ExxonValdeez | linux_galore: what distro? |
| 02:53.54 | galexande | they gave up being able to use a stylus for that |
| 02:54.00 | galexande | i am not convinced it was worth it |
| 02:54.04 | Chairboy | Perfect is enemy of good enough, the scan-matrix model for multi-touch is fine for a phone, I'd argue. |
| 02:54.12 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: ?? |
| 02:54.15 | roh | arachnid yes. real multitouch is usually a IR-flooded glass with a beamer as display beyond and a camera capturing the leaking ir where you touch it |
| 02:54.22 | bhima | galexande: Have you used an iPhone...? |
| 02:54.38 | orospakr | roh: frustrated total internal reflection. or something. |
| 02:54.40 | roh | arachnid completely independant from scanlines and the number of simultaniously touches |
| 02:54.41 | galexande | bhima, no |
| 02:54.44 | arachnid | roh: hm, okay. I read on the list somewhere that the manufacturer of your touch screen had said it might be possible with new drivers |
| 02:54.54 | bhima | galexande: Try one before questioning the trade off. It's really much snazzier than you would expect. |
| 02:54.55 | Chairboy | Here: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000576.html |
| 02:55.03 | ExxonValdeez | linux_galore: i was just interested in what distro you run |
| 02:55.09 | galexande | bhima, i'm a strict functionalist, and it seems like a poor tradeoff. |
| 02:55.10 | linux_galore | anyway openmoko will be an interesting experiment |
| 02:55.17 | arachnid | roh: But it's a case of diminishing returns - two-touch is more useful than one touch, but 3 isn't that much more useful, and so on |
| 02:55.32 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: varies, right now Im using ubuntu gutsy and fedora 7 |
| 02:55.47 | bhima | galexande: So, 5 functions are better than 3, you mean? |
| 02:55.58 | orospakr | http://www.openmoko.com/uploaded_images/28.png <-- I'm really not satisfied by the on screen keyboard. I think the buttons should be quadrilaterals and the keyboard should actually fill the bottom part of the display, not be round tiny things with large gaps in between. |
| 02:56.07 | roh | arachnid we will see. |
| 02:56.16 | orospakr | I want to actually use the Neo for texting. :) |
| 02:56.26 | roh | orospakr forget that keyboard |
| 02:56.37 | arachnid | orospakr: The joy of an OSS project... It can be fixed. :) |
| 02:56.38 | orospakr | roh: I figured it was going to change. :) |
| 02:56.40 | orospakr | Yes! |
| 02:56.43 | ExxonValdeez | linux_galore: yeah, gusty looks nice, tried to get it installed on my laptop but the installer froze, fedora 7 is pretty neat to but unfortunately it doesnt have non-free wifi drivers in it |
| 02:56.45 | Chairboy | If it doesn't support infinite points on a hyperdimensional matrix, it's worthless! C'mon, set a goal that's achievable both technologically and resource-wise. |
| 02:56.50 | orospakr | If no one does it, I might make the patch myself if I can find the time. :P |
| 02:56.55 | galexande | bhima, i think that the ability to indicate a precise point using a fingernail or stylus is more valuable than the ability to indicate two points with less precision |
| 02:57.06 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: it does but you have to add them |
| 02:57.21 | ExxonValdeez | yes, i know |
| 02:57.28 | roh | orospakr that keyboard has neither esc not tab and is thus not acceptable at all ;) |
| 02:57.31 | galexande | bhima, of course, i also want my phone to run rxvt :) |
| 02:57.32 | Chairboy | Has anyone seen the onscreen keyboard method that puts two letters on each key and uses dictionary logic to figure out what the right word is? |
| 02:57.33 | aloril | Chairboy: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:57.40 | orospakr | roh: definitely. |
| 02:57.43 | bhima | galexande: I think that the ability to navigate the UI and interact with apps is the goal... |
| 02:57.50 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: try Gutsy Tribe 2 |
| 02:58.09 | galexande | bhima, sure, but i like to be able to interact with text-mode apps, and i like things like using the matchbox panel to change tasks |
| 02:58.12 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: it was recently released |
| 02:58.25 | ExxonValdeez | linux_galore: but that means i have to connect it via Ethernet and that is inconvenient, i have tried tribe 2, the installer froze up |
| 02:58.33 | bhima | galexande: Right. You need the correct UI for the hardware and form factor. |
| 02:58.56 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: I have pure intel machines so hardware issues are a now brainer |
| 02:59.01 | linux_galore | no* |
| 02:59.19 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: ie I have none |
| 02:59.46 | galexande | bhima, if you saw how i used my ibook you'd understand :) |
| 02:59.49 | bhima | galexande: I prefer my bluetooth folding keyboard. :) |
| 03:00.10 | happycube | ditto |
| 03:00.55 | ExxonValdeez | linux_galore: yeah, the wifi card i just bought because we moved where the computer was, ubuntu runs fine, i might try installing tribe 2 on there instead of the laptop, the desktop has xp for my family, simplymepis and fedora 7 |
| 03:00.56 | linux_galore | yeah, Ive tried one of those built in keyboard with the mobile phones, bugger that give me a BT fold-up unit any day |
| 03:01.05 | ExxonValdeez | that would be nice |
| 03:01.38 | galexande | i'm still intrigued by the lack of a d-pad |
| 03:01.39 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (n=8472@dslb-084-056-251-004.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 03:01.57 | linux_galore | yeah, d-pad would be nice |
| 03:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko chx (n=chx@pdpc/supporter/professional/chx) |
| 03:02.21 | arachnid | The annoying thing about input on small devices is that there are many possibilities for better input methods, but they require users to learn, eg, a new keyboard layout |
| 03:02.26 | arachnid | Which people are very reluctant to do |
| 03:02.35 | linux_galore | galexande: with the GTA02 you could replace the d-pad with a tilt action |
| 03:02.42 | arachnid | Two characters per key, as Chairboy suggested, for example |
| 03:02.43 | happycube | iirc gta01 was piggybacked off a prospective chinese design - i wonder whatever happened to that version |
| 03:02.45 | chx | hi. I read "USB 1.1, switchable between Client and Host (unpowered)" on openmoko.com does this mean that I can attach, say, a keyboard to it? |
| 03:02.57 | bhima | chx: with a power supply for the USB IF, yes. |
| 03:02.59 | happycube | chx - you need a power sour... |
| 03:03.07 | happycube | like a powered usb hub |
| 03:03.07 | chx | ah. i see. |
| 03:03.10 | aloril | chx: or you can get bluetooth keyboard |
| 03:03.17 | chx | hmmmm |
| 03:03.18 | chx | good. |
| 03:03.19 | galexande | aren't there keyboards that don't draw power? |
| 03:03.21 | ExxonValdeez | like ryan block i really think the tactile touch of actual buttons is better than a touch screen |
| 03:03.24 | happycube | targus should make a self-powered usb kbd too |
| 03:03.25 | anrp | inductors are relatively large for doing voltage boost |
| 03:03.28 | galexande | like, ps/2 keyboards these days don't need the +5V rail to operate |
| 03:03.30 | anrp | so getting the 5v is hard ;/ |
| 03:03.37 | happycube | then again logitech should make a bluetooth kbd and they've never done that |
| 03:03.45 | happycube | *bluetooth trackball - tired! |
| 03:03.47 | linux_galore | galexande: wireless usb keyboard |
| 03:03.49 | bhima | Will the neo1973 turn on its USB IF without getting 5v? |
| 03:03.49 | ExxonValdeez | i cant image how disgusting the screen would get, i would have to carry around a cleaning pad |
| 03:04.08 | chx | stowaway sierra for example is a nice foldable keyboard... |
| 03:04.11 | bhima | I like tactile buttons. |
| 03:04.12 | galexande | bhima, i think software could make that decision arbitrarily. |
| 03:04.34 | bhima | But....tactile buttons the size of most cellphones are usually not very good. |
| 03:04.39 | bhima | My E70 is not bad. |
| 03:04.43 | bhima | I don't like treo buttons. |
| 03:04.46 | linux_galore | ExxonValdeez: yeah that one issue a reviewer had with the iphone, smudges on the phone |
| 03:04.54 | anrp | bhima probably, its just up to the device to not sense 5v |
| 03:04.56 | roh | bhima the only reason for not beeing able to provide power usb is that there is nothing the the phone which has 5V |
| 03:04.58 | anrp | some don't, most do |
| 03:05.09 | ExxonValdeez | bhima: how are the sudges? |
| 03:05.16 | roh | we need a step-up converter for that. hopefully gta02 will have one |
| 03:05.29 | anrp | inductors are physically large ;/ |
| 03:05.46 | obscurite | someone should make some "i'm an iphone, i'm a neo" videos |
| 03:05.47 | anrp | there's a bit of space freeing up from the cpu transition but i think its all going to the video accelerator and accelerometer |
| 03:05.49 | bhima | ExxonValdeez: Better than most of my other devices, and the screen is very physically tough so you can just rub it off. |
| 03:06.12 | bhima | ExxonValdeez: Also, the entire front of the device is flat, so you don't have to worry about rubbing grit off the side of the screen into the housing. |
| 03:06.44 | ExxonValdeez | bhima: thats nice, did you watch the systm episode where they dropped it and opened it? |
| 03:06.46 | aloril | not /. yet |
| 03:06.58 | anrp | why not?! |
| 03:07.07 | bhima | obscurite: Good idea. :) |
| 03:07.53 | ExxonValdeez | obscurite: that would be awesome |
| 03:08.09 | bhima | Anybody in SE FLorida or Pittsburgh with a Neo? |
| 03:08.20 | arachnid | That's been discussed on the list a fair bit :) |
| 03:08.29 | anrp | almost noone has a neo yet, save for phase0 devs ;/ |
| 03:10.23 | bhima | Oh, ok. when do peons get the ones they're ordering online? |
| 03:10.26 | ExxonValdeez | has anyone already placed an order? |
| 03:10.35 | anrp | 16th+shipping time, probably |
| 03:10.51 | *** join/#openmoko gresh_ (n=christop@Me059.m.pppool.de) |
| 03:10.57 | anrp | maybe earlier |
| 03:11.03 | anrp | maybe.. |
| 03:11.06 | *** part/#openmoko chx (n=chx@pdpc/supporter/professional/chx) |
| 03:13.14 | ExxonValdeez | aacs, the good old days with digg riots |
| 03:15.28 | happycube | that was epic copypasta |
| 03:15.42 | Chairboy | I drew up a real quick onscreen keyboard idea based on a memory of a tech demo I saw a few months ago that I can't find: http://hallert.net/images/moko-keyboardidea.GIF |
| 03:15.49 | anrp | i thought the proper adjective was delicious copypasta |
| 03:16.01 | happycube | it was delicious too |
| 03:16.11 | Chairboy | The idea was "fingers are big and going to mash, so take away the stress of trying to hit the target exactly", kinda like the iPhone, but with visual cues to. |
| 03:16.12 | aloril | hehe: http://traviswellman.com/2007/07/openmoko |
| 03:16.17 | happycube | but seeing digg flooded like that was just something else |
| 03:16.19 | empty_mind | counter |
| 03:16.19 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 21:30) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order at http://openmoko.com (1719;247) |
| 03:16.32 | empty_mind | intelligent counter |
| 03:17.20 | bhima | It's going to be interesting to see if Apple releases a native devkit. The iPhone feels so feature-limited to me that I don't think they had the time for a devkit. |
| 03:17.48 | galexande | chairboy, i bet it works pretty well for typing english text |
| 03:18.01 | bhima | So I'm hoping that it's on their agenda. Hopefully a great batch of openmoko apps will prod them too. |
| 03:18.03 | galexande | bhima, i don't think apple wants you to develop for it |
| 03:18.35 | galexande | the iphone hardware really is quite cute |
| 03:18.59 | obscurite | it's damned sexy :) |
| 03:19.04 | anrp | that's what apple does best |
| 03:19.20 | anrp | i'm partial to industrial ibm black as well though.. too bad its not really ibm anymore |
| 03:19.31 | bhima | galexande: I don't know. I can't tell. A good devkit takes a lot of time and people. |
| 03:19.54 | doc|home | will there be another shell design any time soon? |
| 03:20.05 | obscurite | doc|home - faq says next rev has the same case |
| 03:20.25 | doc|home | ok, thanks |
| 03:20.44 | bhima | Oh, I forgot, the neo1973 has GPS too, doesn't it? Hrm. It's sounding more and more attractive. |
| 03:20.54 | bhima | When is the wifi one coming out...? |
| 03:20.57 | doc|home | bhima: the full production ones in oct |
| 03:21.05 | doc|home | iirc |
| 03:22.00 | ExxonValdeez | aloril: we should make a fake Sean Moss-Pultz blog, in line with the rumor wiki you showed there |
| 03:22.11 | ExxonValdeez | he is the openmoko Program Manager |
| 03:22.15 | ExxonValdeez | if you didnt know |
| 03:22.25 | anrp | i would bet that he did .. D: |
| 03:22.36 | rwhitby | aloril knows all |
| 03:22.47 | anrp | he knows sed! |
| 03:22.52 | aloril | yeah, he is Steve Jobs of Neo1973/OpenMoko ;-) |
| 03:23.12 | galexande | i can't wait til mine comes in the amil |
| 03:23.34 | galexande | maybe by then mokomakefile will be done :) |
| 03:24.02 | ExxonValdeez | aloril: thats what i was thinking, galexande: did you order one? |
| 03:24.22 | ExxonValdeez | has anyone gotten the qemu stuff running? is there the actually gui? |
| 03:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8EB0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:24.43 | galexande | exxon, of course :) |
| 03:24.57 | aloril | ExxonValdeez: you don't need to compile everything if you just want to look at it, just qemu + download images takes only minutes |
| 03:25.42 | aloril | seems they have additional week to produce more, I guess after day or 2 they know a lot more about demand |
| 03:26.19 | ExxonValdeez | ooh, i cant wait, yeah, i saw it on the wiki but was confused as to if you could interact with the gui, unfortunately i am in vista right now and not ubuntu, ugh, converting audible audio, actually recording it with audacity, really annoying |
| 03:26.30 | rwhitby | galexande: mokomakefile is simply a test to see if you have enough patience to be an openmoko developer ... |
| 03:26.56 | galexande | i think i can i think i can |
| 03:27.44 | ExxonValdeez | galexande: do you have kqemu installed? |
| 03:27.52 | galexande | exxon, no |
| 03:28.10 | galexande | honestly i'm not excited about the emulator, i just want to be able to cross-compile and run on the neo when it gets here |
| 03:28.35 | galexande | because i want to work with the gps and the dialer...everythhing else i'd just develop as a gtk app |
| 03:29.02 | ExxonValdeez | it gives a pretty big performance boost, did you already order one? i think i am going to wait for the wifi version since i dont have much experience coding |
| 03:29.36 | *** part/#openmoko Speedy2 (n=Javier_6@cpe-66-75-4-134.san.res.rr.com) |
| 03:30.26 | galexande | yeah i've got one coming. i want to write a parallel application stack that looks like star trek |
| 03:30.49 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@s15244973.onlinehome-server.info) |
| 03:30.56 | ExxonValdeez | that sounds really cool, what is your development background? |
| 03:31.13 | galexande | compilers :) |
| 03:31.52 | galexande | the phone looks so small in sean moss-pultz's hands |
| 03:31.57 | galexande | i can't believe it's 640x480 |
| 03:32.26 | ExxonValdeez | where is that pic? |
| 03:32.36 | ExxonValdeez | you write compilers? |
| 03:32.41 | bhima | Phones with insanely high density pixels are getting more common. 220 dpi on the Nokia 770. |
| 03:32.51 | summatusmentis | you WRITE compilers? |
| 03:32.53 | galexande | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRvtAAXTIlg |
| 03:32.57 | summatusmentis | now I feel completely stupid :-) |
| 03:33.05 | Agrajag- | hey that ninja video where they're (trying) to play a video - that's not the new processor is it? |
| 03:33.05 | galexande | mostly i maintain them. |
| 03:33.31 | summatusmentis | Agrajag-: that's the GTA01b4, iirc |
| 03:33.33 | galexande | agrajag, that's with the gta01 hardware...i imagine the gta02 with its accelerator won't have any trouble with it |
| 03:33.41 | Agrajag- | yeah, hope so :) |
| 03:34.10 | summatusmentis | galexande: well, regardless, I can't even write a patch to fix a segfault :-P |
| 03:34.26 | ExxonValdeez | thats really cool, maintaining compilers, how did you learn programming? (sorry if it seems like i am interrogating you, i am just interested) |
| 03:34.40 | ExxonValdeez | summatusmentis: i feel completely stupid as well |
| 03:34.44 | summatusmentis | I'm with him ^ |
| 03:34.46 | summatusmentis | :-) |
| 03:35.00 | galexande | i am mostly self-taught. i just landed in compilers because some compiler-obsessed professor took me under his wing |
| 03:35.18 | summatusmentis | can I ask where at? |
| 03:35.20 | galexande | they're just software like anything else. 90% of the time you are not working on something that is even an interesting algorithm |
| 03:35.35 | galexande | i work for dignus.com. everyone's gotta have a niche :) |
| 03:36.30 | anrp | os/390... |
| 03:36.34 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: college is often overrated |
| 03:36.41 | ExxonValdeez | ***is wanting to go to college because high school has really crappy programming classes |
| 03:36.49 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: if you're doing CS and not at CMU, Berkeley, or MIT you are probably wasting your time |
| 03:36.51 | galexande | you know, compiling doom for the neo wouldn't even be a joke, it is totally capable |
| 03:36.56 | ExxonValdeez | agh, how do you do the star thing? |
| 03:36.57 | galexande | except for ... damn multitouch would be nice for doom :) |
| 03:36.59 | summatusmentis | unknown_lamer: well, perhaps, but training is good |
| 03:37.05 | unknown_lamer | training is worthless |
| 03:37.10 | anrp | worthless? |
| 03:37.11 | summatusmentis | ExxonValdeez: /me |
| 03:37.14 | anrp | i wouldn't put it that strongly |
| 03:37.20 | unknown_lamer | *learning* is useful, training is useless |
| 03:37.40 | anrp | if you're not learning from training its not training |
| 03:37.51 | summatusmentis | ok, minutae, but regardless, having an environment in which to learn is still a good idea |
| 03:37.54 | galexande | probably only two classes from college are factually relevant to me but it was still a great experience that improved me |
| 03:38.02 | ExxonValdeez | galexande: well, yeah, doom would easily run, it runs on my sisters sansa e250 |
| 03:38.18 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: I found the University hampered me from learning; the pointless busy work really ate into the time I could spend doing stuff like building Lisp compilers |
| 03:38.23 | galexande | my ipaq h3765, doom would fill all my free memory |
| 03:38.39 | ExxonValdeez | ah, well hopefully by college i will be motivated enough to actually learn how to code |
| 03:38.42 | summatusmentis | unknown_lamer: which Universtiy? |
| 03:38.49 | unknown_lamer | ExxonValdeez: htdp.org start NOW |
| 03:38.50 | galexande | motivation is much more important than education |
| 03:39.00 | summatusmentis | ExxonValdeez: I did a couple of science fair projects to learn to code |
| 03:39.03 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: umbc.edu ... crappy little place in Baltimore that *used* to have a decent cs program |
| 03:39.09 | anrp | and I hated mit ;/ |
| 03:39.16 | summatusmentis | unknown_lamer: I see |
| 03:39.21 | unknown_lamer | *sniff* I wish I had been there in the 90s when the ex-bell labs folks were there and a lisp course was required to graduate |
| 03:39.23 | summatusmentis | anrp: I've heard mixed things about MIT |
| 03:39.26 | galexande | anrp, i'm glad, because i couldn't get in :) |
| 03:39.32 | galexande | good to know it sucks anyways :) |
| 03:39.41 | anrp | mit is a good place to do things |
| 03:39.44 | anrp | not as a student... |
| 03:40.04 | galexande | yeah i realized all the cool people at mit that i respected were dropouts or perpetual students |
| 03:40.18 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 03:40.24 | anrp | really :S |
| 03:40.29 | summatusmentis | it's an interesting way to look at it |
| 03:40.52 | summatusmentis | I'll be attending a small liberal arts college in western MN(US) in the fall |
| 03:41.14 | summatusmentis | for CS of all things, hopefully the liberal arts aspect doesn't hamper me too much |
| 03:41.43 | galexande | arts are great, a class where you can',t figure everything out by rtfm |
| 03:41.47 | bhima | CMU is better. MIT sucks. |
| 03:42.03 | galexande | heh |
| 03:42.03 | summatusmentis | ExxonValdeez: expect to pay $$$$$$ at the end |
| 03:42.04 | unknown_lamer | summatusmentis: I suggest majoring in one of the liberal arts and at most minoring in CS and learning it in your free time |
| 03:42.08 | anrp | i would tend to agree with half that statement |
| 03:42.19 | anrp | mit is >$17k/semester, so be warned |
| 03:42.26 | anrp | they do have lots of assistance though |
| 03:42.29 | unknown_lamer | if you enjoy programming at all school will more than likely turn into a review of what you already had to teach yourself, and then it just becomes painful |
| 03:42.33 | bhima | CMU is quite expnesive too. |
| 03:43.13 | doc|home | a nick like that and you don't have tonnes of money? :) |
| 03:43.24 | bhima | I found that I learned a lot in classes at CMU, but my first ~2 years afterwards I learned more. |
| 03:43.29 | summatusmentis | ExxonValdeez: lol, same here. I'll be paying 14.5k/year :-) |
| 03:43.34 | ExxonValdeez | oh, right, yeah, you know, i just have gobs of oil, i wish |
| 03:43.41 | bhima | However, I wouldn't have learned as much later without what I did at CMU. |
| 03:43.46 | ExxonValdeez | summatusmentis: nice |
| 03:43.49 | bhima | Apply and then deal with financial aid. |
| 03:43.59 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 03:44.00 | summatusmentis | ^that I agree w/ |
| 03:44.01 | bhima | There is a lot of aid available. |
| 03:44.04 | summatusmentis | keep options open, definitely |
| 03:44.04 | ExxonValdeez | unknown_lamer: thanks for the link, btw, what do you do with coding? |
| 03:44.15 | unknown_lamer | ExxonValdeez: lisp consulting |
| 03:44.17 | bhima | Don't reject a school because of perceived cost. |
| 03:44.20 | ExxonValdeez | ooh, interesting |
| 03:44.36 | ExxonValdeez | bhima: thats true, and being mexican american doesnt hurt |
| 03:44.40 | bhima | I didn't do any LISP at all. I did a fair amount of SML. |
| 03:44.47 | unknown_lamer | ExxonValdeez: I'm working on a long-term project now that I *really* hope I can get funding for (a notebook-style notebook computer) |
| 03:44.56 | unknown_lamer | sml is nice too |
| 03:45.00 | summatusmentis | ExxonValdeez: yeah, consider all options, apply where you want to go, then weigh options |
| 03:45.10 | unknown_lamer | I just like to do funky metaprogramming more than crazy formal math programming |
| 03:45.19 | unknown_lamer | my head was wired for symbolic computation and not category theory |
| 03:45.45 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order http://openmoko.com ; Shipping 60% in |
| 03:45.45 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order http://openmoko.com ; Shipping 60% in |
| 03:45.46 | ExxonValdeez | unknown_lamer: i have read some lisp in the hacker's quarterly, interesting language |
| 03:46.09 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order http://openmoko.com ; Shipping 60% in |
| 03:46.09 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order http://openmoko.com ; Shipping 60% in |
| 03:46.21 | galexande | i used to be crazy about forth |
| 03:46.23 | *** part/#openmoko elliotf_ (n=elliotf@c-24-23-128-172.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 03:46.37 | aloril | (just added guesses about shipping, no real new info) |
| 03:46.38 | unknown_lamer | ExxonValdeez: I like to think of it as a metalanguage |
| 03:46.49 | unknown_lamer | ExxonValdeez: sufficient use of the MOP and Macros can make it do anything you want |
| 03:47.12 | unknown_lamer | It is rather nice because you can factor mapping decisions out into metacode and then have your main code be phrased in terms applicable to the domain |
| 03:47.17 | *** part/#openmoko cowbud (n=fuas@76.2.24.70) |
| 03:47.19 | anrp | anything? including make openmoko take over the world(tm)? |
| 03:47.22 | aloril | counter |
| 03:47.22 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order http://openmoko.com ; Shipping 60% in a week, 3 days 08:12:38 (10.342±3.0 days) (1720;246) |
| 03:47.23 | *** join/#openmoko gresh_ (n=christop@Me3dd.m.pppool.de) |
| 03:47.30 | unknown_lamer | if you need to adjust the mapping for performance or something you just change the metacode and life goes on |
| 03:47.43 | aloril | counter runs out really when I have one in my hand ;-) |
| 03:47.46 | galexande | unknown lamer, you should learn forth and enjoy immediatewords :) |
| 03:47.47 | unknown_lamer | anrp: I'm going to get clisp on the openmoko |
| 03:47.53 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:47.58 | anrp | lua! |
| 03:48.00 | unknown_lamer | anrp: dunno if I can do gui programming (istr that uffi/cffi don't work on ARM) |
| 03:48.04 | anrp | learn lua, its very light |
| 03:48.06 | unknown_lamer | I may get to learn arm assembly and make them work now |
| 03:48.14 | anrp | asm... |
| 03:48.16 | unknown_lamer | lua is less good than Common Lisp or Scheme |
| 03:48.35 | anrp | but lua has enough in common with standard imperative to be comfortable to lots of people |
| 03:48.47 | unknown_lamer | eww imperative programming |
| 03:48.47 | ExxonValdeez | is python going to be easy to work with on the neo? and yeah, asm, hardcore, too bad i cant code asm then i could code for my 89 titanium |
| 03:48.56 | unknown_lamer | ExxonValdeez: python is very slow. guile is faster. |
| 03:49.01 | unknown_lamer | and guile is *slow* |
| 03:49.16 | unknown_lamer | The solution clearly |
| 03:49.24 | unknown_lamer | is to use defs files and let everyone use his favorite language :-) |
| 03:49.28 | ExxonValdeez | unknown_lamer: python seems the easiest to learn and with gtk bindings easy to dev apps for |
| 03:49.50 | unknown_lamer | ExxonValdeez: oh, it's a reasonable end-user scripting language but its æsthetic offends me |
| 03:50.10 | ExxonValdeez | what do you mean by that? |
| 03:50.17 | unknown_lamer | whitespace has meaning |
| 03:50.17 | galexande | exxon, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Higher_level_language_options |
| 03:50.23 | galexande | unknown lamer, amen |
| 03:50.32 | unknown_lamer | and it's really nothing revolutionary |
| 03:50.51 | ExxonValdeez | JIT? |
| 03:50.56 | galexande | exxon, in short, you can install python or perl or whatever no problemo, but for developing apps to be included in the stock rom, you probably won't be able to use it |
| 03:51.31 | ExxonValdeez | and yes, thank you, i had seen that page but been consfused about it, hadnt really looked much at the matrix, i read the discussion about scripting languages |
| 03:51.42 | ExxonValdeez | galexande: i see |
| 03:52.06 | ExxonValdeez | lua is available for the psp, anyone do any scripting in that? |
| 03:52.56 | ExxonValdeez | lua i mean, not for the psp |
| 03:53.17 | ExxonValdeez | yay! |
| 03:53.28 | galexande | does lua have convenient gtk bindings? |
| 03:53.46 | ExxonValdeez | i made an alarm clock and metronome in lua for the psp, not very good |
| 03:54.14 | anrp | lua has some development direct gtk bindings |
| 03:54.23 | anrp | once through gtk-server, and one more native |
| 03:54.34 | anrp | gtk-server seems a bit more mature |
| 03:54.44 | aloril | random "bought Neo1973" -blog: http://substitute.livejournal.com/1630683.html |
| 03:54.50 | anrp | http://luaforge.net/projects/lua-gtk/ |
| 03:54.57 | anrp | not that i've ever used it |
| 03:55.13 | anrp | the whole idea of GTK rubs me the wrong way, at least in its native use |
| 03:55.19 | anrp | reimplementing C++.. |
| 03:55.57 | ExxonValdeez | interesting blog |
| 03:56.14 | ExxonValdeez | yay! audio is about finished recording |
| 03:56.48 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 03:56.49 | galexande | anrp, or is it c++ reinventing oop :) |
| 03:57.00 | anrp | c++ implements oop... |
| 03:57.03 | anrp | reinventing? |
| 03:57.03 | ExxonValdeez | okay, good talking to you guys, gtg to bed, sadly |
| 03:57.07 | anrp | that's an odd way to describe it |
| 03:57.28 | summatusmentis | goodnight ExxonValdeez |
| 03:57.29 | galexande | anrp, gtk just has an oop framework...c++ also has an oop framework, but c++'s sucks :) |
| 03:57.32 | anrp | i'm not going to argue it does it well but it definately does it |
| 03:57.53 | anrp | yes, gtk has twisted C into providing a oop framework |
| 03:58.01 | galexande | C is perfectly capable of providing an oop framework |
| 03:58.21 | ExxonValdeez | gn! :) |
| 03:58.32 | anrp | bai D: |
| 03:59.05 | anrp | like i said it just rubs me the wrong way |
| 04:01.07 | summatusmentis | someone here is gonna have to post a review of the neo when they get theirs |
| 04:01.22 | galexande | i'll make a youtube!! |
| 04:01.33 | anrp | "it turns on! and shows pretty pictures! I even managed to make one phone call before it crashed!" |
| 04:01.37 | anrp | careful what you wish for |
| 04:02.00 | anrp | not that that'll happen, but its for devs so far |
| 04:02.00 | summatusmentis | anrp: lol, ok, so a forward looking review :-) of things yet to come |
| 04:02.13 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=mike@poolofdespair.net) |
| 04:03.09 | linux_galore | do the whole UI in c# heh |
| 04:03.17 | galexande | hah, hah |
| 04:03.25 | linux_galore | that will make em spit out their wheaties |
| 04:03.29 | anrp | i haven't used c# so I dunno how good it is |
| 04:03.38 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 04:03.42 | Chairboy | So, this probably won't be too popular to suggest, but considering that the iPhone seems to be the yardstick everyone is using, what are the chances that the most succesful OpenMoko implementation will be heavilly inspired along those directions instead of the Windows Mobile flavor it seems to have now? |
| 04:03.44 | anrp | but basing off microsoft's work doesn't seem like a good idea, at best |
| 04:04.02 | hads | *yawn* |
| 04:04.06 | *** part/#openmoko opampca (n=richardl@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 04:04.37 | linux_galore | Im finding the Toshiba G900 is the yardstick now, the iphone is just a pretty toy |
| 04:04.49 | linux_galore | or even the HTC Advantage |
| 04:04.54 | anrp | let me tell you why you're wrong |
| 04:04.57 | anrp | "the what?" |
| 04:05.02 | anrp | everyone knows the iphone |
| 04:05.13 | summatusmentis | I was just gonna ask what the G900 was |
| 04:05.17 | Chairboy | Never heard of it |
| 04:05.30 | Chairboy | I've seen HTC's previous phone, but haven't seen the Advantage yet. |
| 04:05.33 | linux_galore | lots of reviews on youtube |
| 04:05.47 | linux_galore | dito the htc phone |
| 04:05.56 | Chairboy | Ah, didn't realize the G900 and Advantage had sold 700,000 on their first three days, my bad. :D |
| 04:06.10 | linux_galore | G900 is going gang busters |
| 04:06.14 | ajmitch | linux_galore: not that it'd be hard to do the whole UI in C# these days |
| 04:06.29 | summatusmentis | will the neo have mono? |
| 04:06.31 | anrp | and what has the iphone sold? |
| 04:06.35 | anrp | summatusmentis: if you compile it for it |
| 04:06.41 | anrp | i do think mono has been run on arm before |
| 04:06.52 | summatusmentis | anrp: apparently it's a bit rough for the Z |
| 04:06.56 | galexande | summat, not by default |
| 04:07.00 | galexande | but of course it'll install |
| 04:07.02 | anrp | the Z is getting a bit old |
| 04:07.04 | anrp | i have two of them.. |
| 04:07.05 | summatusmentis | galexande: right, ok |
| 04:07.47 | Chairboy | I'm not saying that the consensus reflects the technically superior, just that the consensus seems to be that the iPhone is The Phone right now. |
| 04:08.15 | anrp | apple is above all a marketing company |
| 04:08.18 | linux_galore | Chairboy: just as many people hate the iphone as like it, |
| 04:08.36 | summatusmentis | anrp: I'm worried that the neo will obsolete the zaurs, I love me 3200. 5500 is old, yes |
| 04:08.43 | anrp | worried? |
| 04:08.44 | Chairboy | If I thought it was the end-all, I wouldn't be here and on the list to get a production 1973. The iPhone does a lot of things better than any other phone so far, usability-wise. |
| 04:08.46 | ajmitch | linux_galore: sure, but at least people have an opinion of it |
| 04:08.47 | anrp | why be worried? its not a bad thing |
| 04:09.20 | Chairboy | It has problems, lots of them, and I'm betting the 1973 or its ilk will be the right platform to take some good ideas Apple started and make them perfect for my needs. |
| 04:09.22 | anrp | they're both ARM, both similar specs (although Z has more storage) |
| 04:09.26 | summatusmentis | anrp: well, no, not exactly, but I invested ~$500 on the 3200 about 6-10 months ago |
| 04:09.30 | anrp | and the Z has a kbd |
| 04:09.31 | anrp | oh, heh |
| 04:09.54 | summatusmentis | but then again, I'm not gonna be able to use the neo for another year and a half, so... |
| 04:10.22 | linux_galore | the iphone will see fine to the Paris Hilton idiots who think owning a phone hides the fact their fat ugly and stupid but many will see the lack of a keypad and the user lock-ins as being a no go |
| 04:10.25 | anrp | i haven't even installed graphical stuff on my z yet.. flashed it with the base image and just installed mplayer |
| 04:10.30 | linux_galore | s/see/sell/ |
| 04:10.37 | anrp | neo has no keypad either |
| 04:10.42 | Chairboy | Linux_Galore: As clever as you are, I don't think that's a realistic assessment. |
| 04:11.13 | anrp | and ... in america (tm), noone cares about lockin. it's expected |
| 04:11.23 | anrp | thankfully there is a device for all the noones out there |
| 04:11.25 | anrp | (this) |
| 04:11.30 | summatusmentis | anrp: which is one of two things I'm not sure I like about the neo, lack of kbd, and no cam |
| 04:11.37 | anrp | z has a cam? |
| 04:11.39 | anrp | since when o_O |
| 04:11.40 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 04:11.43 | summatusmentis | no, it doesn't |
| 04:11.44 | linux_galore | anrp: your thinking telco lockins Im talking about everything is locked in |
| 04:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 04:11.49 | summatusmentis | but phones do |
| 04:11.56 | anrp | ah |
| 04:12.02 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: seen a VZW phone recently? |
| 04:12.05 | Chairboy | Prediction: Every major smart phone review in the next 6 months will compare against the iPhone. |
| 04:12.13 | anrp | yes, phones are locked in |
| 04:12.19 | anrp | but .. i stand by my original statement |
| 04:12.55 | bmidgley | MS still sells a horrible UI on their smartphones... the iphone should help people see that |
| 04:13.18 | anrp | i think a lot of users already know that winmobile is pretty terrible |
| 04:13.21 | anrp | it's also the only choice |
| 04:13.22 | linux_galore | I will be interested what LG's update to the Prada (the original iphone) will be later this year |
| 04:13.29 | anrp | for them |
| 04:13.35 | Chairboy | Agreed. Based on what I've seen in screenshots and movies so far, it seems like OpenMoko is very mobile-like in UI. |
| 04:13.53 | Chairboy | That's why I was asking above about the direction it was heading. |
| 04:13.57 | bmidgley | openmoko has a lot of rough edges in the ui still |
| 04:14.11 | anrp | and in the hw integration.. |
| 04:14.23 | anrp | as has not been made evident enough on the website it's not a finished device |
| 04:14.28 | linux_galore | Ive seen Vista Mobile, its very pretty |
| 04:14.34 | bmidgley | anrp: we know they will get the drivers etc right, but it's too easy to release bad ui |
| 04:14.37 | anrp | its finished enough for all the noones here |
| 04:14.38 | bmidgley | and think it's finished |
| 04:14.58 | linux_galore | I think giszmodo did a review of a phone running Viata Mobile |
| 04:15.00 | anrp | i do half expect that to happen, i'd like to be wrong though |
| 04:15.14 | linux_galore | Vista* |
| 04:15.43 | bmidgley | i just reflashed my neo with the latest... do you think the broken images will be fixed? |
| 04:15.54 | bmidgley | ... drum roll... |
| 04:16.29 | linux_galore | I cant wait till the phones start being delivered, wall to wall "my [whatever] doesnt work" |
| 04:16.39 | bmidgley | well the bluetooth icon is back but the home screen icons are all broken images |
| 04:16.47 | anrp | it's going to happen |
| 04:16.52 | anrp | :/ sadly |
| 04:17.18 | linux_galore | always be some idiot who "doesnt read the warning" |
| 04:17.19 | bmidgley | I've noticed a lot of regressions... |
| 04:17.20 | anrp | what, bmidgley? just use the terminal, marked WORKSFORME </sarcasm> |
| 04:17.27 | summatusmentis | I hope people understand it's a dev version... I hope too many people didn't jump the gun.... |
| 04:17.40 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: Im waiting for GTA02 |
| 04:17.56 | bmidgley | audio stopped working for a while, icons come and go, dialer won't launch in some snapshots |
| 04:17.57 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: me too, at least, maybe longer |
| 04:17.57 | linux_galore | summatusmentis: even then I may wait for a few firmware cycles |
| 04:18.10 | anrp | sounds killer |
| 04:18.33 | summatusmentis | linux_galore: yeah, I'm probably waiting 1.5 years |
| 04:18.38 | linux_galore | heh |
| 04:18.39 | anrp | at least there's time to improve it before the proper release |
| 04:18.50 | anrp | who's to say it will be, though |
| 04:18.55 | anrp | :/ |
| 04:19.00 | galexande | we are |
| 04:19.12 | linux_galore | I might see if I can get my hands on a trial Toshi G900 |
| 04:19.24 | anrp | good luck then D: its hard work |
| 04:19.26 | bmidgley | anrp: they will fix the obvious bugs, especially when developers have them in hand |
| 04:19.44 | anrp | but ui niggles will be left alone, since devs will easily get used to terrible interfaces |
| 04:19.50 | anrp | and not even notice them |
| 04:19.54 | anrp | i certainly don't |
| 04:19.56 | galexande | anrp, i think i disagree on that point |
| 04:20.05 | anrp | mm? |
| 04:20.19 | galexande | anrp, especially on a portable device, horrible interface decisions piss me off |
| 04:20.42 | galexande | and the fact that all these open source programmers will be pissed off at the same bugs, that gives me hope that they'll get fixed and it won't turn into yet another unusabble smartphone |
| 04:20.50 | anrp | well then you would be a good UI design red team guy D: |
| 04:20.59 | galexande | we'll find out if i'm right :) |
| 04:20.59 | anrp | all of them? |
| 04:21.21 | anrp | i don't really see it a smartphone, not yet.. more of a platform |
| 04:21.24 | galexande | my ipaq has lots of awful UI issues that I just don't care about. But for my phone, I wouldn't put up with it |
| 04:21.31 | bmidgley | galexande: I am bugged by poor UI but a lot of developers learn it and put up with it |
| 04:21.32 | *** join/#openmoko freelock_ (n=john@foraker.freelock.com) |
| 04:21.55 | linux_galore | I agree, people are not very tolerant with UI bugs on phones |
| 04:22.07 | linux_galore | so much so the company I work for keep it simple |
| 04:22.26 | galexande | like just looking at the youtube videos that are up of the phones... right away i am blown away by how unusable all of the apps look |
| 04:22.39 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[Wish_List]] [[User:Chairboy]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Talk:Current_events]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 04:22.40 | anrp | however, the only people targeted with the phone until the actual mass marketing are developers |
| 04:22.47 | anrp | which is why I think it might not get that much better |
| 04:23.00 | bmidgley | on a phone with only one (stealthy) hardware button, ui will be even more important |
| 04:23.01 | anrp | unless there's some effort to get ui feedback from non-devs |
| 04:23.10 | galexande | well these will be developers who are actually clicking three times on microscopic buttons each time they hang up the phone |
| 04:23.17 | galexande | so they'll hopefully make the buttons bigger and more streaoomlined |
| 04:23.19 | galexande | i sure will :) |
| 04:23.33 | khester | i agree on the horrible ui. hopefully some UI types get involved and help fix things. I'm a kernel type guy and my main moko software will be a vario/gps app, hopefully I'll keep the UI not too bad |
| 04:23.40 | bmidgley | galexande: the dialer app itself is not bad, but switching apps needs improvement |
| 04:23.44 | anrp | major issues will be fixed, most likely (not necessarily) |
| 04:23.46 | summatusmentis | phone/contacts should be all finger based |
| 04:23.49 | anrp | but minor ones... |
| 04:23.55 | anrp | apple is known for polish |
| 04:24.08 | anrp | yes, x/y/z smartphone does all the iphone does + more |
| 04:24.11 | anrp | but it lacks polish |
| 04:24.18 | galexande | i have lots of ideas for streamlining existing UIs but i get gridlocked easily if i get to make too many decisions from the ground up |
| 04:24.19 | galexande | i'm excited :) |
| 04:24.48 | linux_galore | yeah, If i was going to bag Linux and FOSS and point out were Apple apps (even the freeware stuff) snots on Linux is how refined OSX UI stuff is |
| 04:25.33 | Chairboy | The fact that things like Beryl exist is what give me hope for this project, heh. |
| 04:25.34 | galexande | i'm also concerned about how they'll come up with a consistent UI across applications |
| 04:25.47 | linux_galore | you cant get that type of dedication without a reward ie $$$ |
| 04:25.52 | galexande | that's traditionally accomplished through a monolithic power structure |
| 04:26.11 | bmidgley | I borrowed a sim but could never figure out what magic I needed to do to place a call |
| 04:26.12 | anrp | which doesn't exist here, so it'll have to rely on something else |
| 04:26.12 | cjb | linux_galore: hm? there are thousands of people paid to hack on Linux. |
| 04:26.16 | anrp | ...or be fragmented |
| 04:26.30 | galexande | i'm likely to help make it more fragmented :) |
| 04:26.33 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.37 | cjb | (ie. more than are paid to work on OS X) |
| 04:26.54 | anrp | bmidgley: simple, printf 'ATD66655512121;\r' > /dev/ttySAC0 |
| 04:27.04 | linux_galore | cjb: yeah but if you look at the small foss apps on Linux the refinement isnt like the small $ stuff on Apple hardware |
| 04:27.08 | galexande | what about turning on the speaker, anrp |
| 04:27.16 | anrp | good question |
| 04:27.20 | anrp | but why would you need a speaker? |
| 04:27.28 | cjb | linux_galore: yes, because there's no central authority to say "this is the one true FOSS style guide". |
| 04:27.29 | anrp | only testing the ability to make a call ;) |
| 04:27.31 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 04:27.33 | linux_galore | cjb: they both do the same job but the over all refinement isnt there |
| 04:27.35 | cjb | it's not that people aren't committed to their work. |
| 04:28.09 | cjb | it's that if Apple wants to make everything look the same they can just command it, and if FOSS does you need to convince everyone that your toolkit/style guide is way better than all the others. |
| 04:28.25 | bmidgley | FOSS has no UI tzar so it will never be as polished as OSX |
| 04:28.27 | cjb | we're sort of getting there. I think KDE is becoming less and less relevant. |
| 04:28.27 | anrp | which is why linux still often looks fragmented from the outside |
| 04:28.34 | galexande | well if they have the design/UI staff then they can have a UI czar at FIC |
| 04:28.35 | anrp | ooh flamewar time D: |
| 04:28.35 | *** join/#openmoko xanalogica (n=jeff@adsl-68-95-135-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 04:28.46 | cjb | and GNOME has a style guide and cuts down options to nearly the same extent as OS X |
| 04:28.51 | galexande | and in september when all the apps start to get hacked into a final configuration, they can come in and replace all our UI elements |
| 04:28.59 | cjb | I don't think there's really a flamewar here. :) |
| 04:29.16 | galexande | but it's a difficult use of open source energy. i keep waffling on whether the final release will be cool or not |
| 04:29.19 | galexande | but i know i'll love playing with it :) |
| 04:29.25 | anrp | considering that the other major open source phone platform contender is Qt/Embedded, i think you might |
| 04:29.36 | anrp | not that I really care either way, i just want it to work |
| 04:29.50 | linux_galore | cjb: not according to SUSE last public question-air, over 70% of users prefered KDE as their default desktop |
| 04:29.57 | anrp | see? |
| 04:30.07 | cjb | linux_galore: they asked SUSE users, who *already use KDE*. |
| 04:30.15 | linux_galore | cjb: and thats from a Gnome based company |
| 04:30.27 | cjb | SUSE is historically the only mainstream KDE distro |
| 04:30.35 | cjb | so no, I don't think it's a GNOME company. |
| 04:30.38 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:30.56 | cjb | and, you know, it's just a poll. maybe someone rigged it. |
| 04:30.59 | linux_galore | cjb: no they asked "anyone" its a open public none distro specific question-air is was also posted on /. |
| 04:31.17 | anrp | this is why its best to stay out of those type of statements |
| 04:31.21 | anrp | blanket X > Y |
| 04:31.31 | cjb | but it's very obvious that >90% of Linux users use GNOME. |
| 04:31.37 | galexande | see, gtk reinvents OOP within C, but Qt reinvents OOP within C++, it really rubs me the wrong way :) |
| 04:31.41 | cjb | because that's what every distro ships with, including Sun etc. |
| 04:31.42 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 04:31.49 | anrp | i don't like Qt either |
| 04:31.56 | anrp | double compiling, wtf? |
| 04:32.04 | anrp | wx is alright, fltk also ok (but fltk looks terrible) |
| 04:32.06 | linux_galore | cjb: nope, every questionar/census I have ever seen shows kde is more in use than gnome |
| 04:32.12 | hads | This conversation is hardly relevant. |
| 04:32.15 | cjb | linux_galore: that is wack |
| 04:32.26 | anrp | hehe |
| 04:32.29 | anrp | sparks! |
| 04:32.34 | anrp | i see the beginnings of a flame |
| 04:32.39 | galexande | i won't develop for qt, so i'm just lucky they standardized on gtk :) |
| 04:32.51 | unknown_lamer | I demand CLIM |
| 04:32.53 | galexande | | /media/3/moko/build/tmp/cross/bin/arm-linux-as: unrecognized option `-Qy' |
| 04:33.04 | anrp | clim? |
| 04:33.17 | unknown_lamer | anrp: common lisp interface manager |
| 04:33.24 | anrp | it'll probably compile |
| 04:33.46 | linux_galore | cjb: go look it up, the Novell one is on line all the numbers are their, think about it, Novell have tied their boat the the Gnome desktop so why would they say that over 70% of users that filled in the online form said they run KDE |
| 04:34.01 | unknown_lamer | gtk is ok gnome sucks |
| 04:34.04 | linux_galore | s/the the/to the/ |
| 04:34.10 | anrp | :( |
| 04:34.23 | anrp | cmon, lets stop with blanket statements |
| 04:34.25 | gcb77 | does this error ring a bell to anyone: gadget_ep_parse: failed to configure gadgetfs: -16 |
| 04:34.30 | cjb | linux_galore: if it's on 70% of desktops, why isn't there a single distro that ships it? why do they ignore their users and bundle a desktop that no-one likes? |
| 04:36.00 | cjb | it's just a ridiculous thing to say. |
| 04:36.23 | anrp | there's no distro that ships kde? |
| 04:36.29 | anrp | i find that .. hard to believe |
| 04:36.33 | cjb | I can't think of one that ships it by default. Can you? |
| 04:36.37 | anrp | kubuntu? |
| 04:36.39 | linux_galore | cjb: like Kubuntu or Simply Mepis there are heaps, also your thinking Red Hat and Novell, its all to do with GTK stuff having a LGPL license thus allowing the companies to link their closed source application sake to the desktop libs for free, you cant do that with KDE because QT is GPL |
| 04:36.39 | cjb | .. |
| 04:36.47 | cjb | that's a small spinoff of Ubuntu, which ships GNOME. Try again. |
| 04:36.53 | cjb | Mepis! |
| 04:37.09 | cjb | I see we're down to distros with numbers of users that you can count on one hand :) |
| 04:37.11 | anrp | what's your definition of a distribution? |
| 04:37.13 | hads | Can we have this conversation somewhere else? It's pretty irrelavant here. |
| 04:37.15 | bmidgley | battery meter doesn't show the charge level now |
| 04:37.42 | linux_galore | s/application sake/ applications stack/ |
| 04:37.44 | anrp | even better, let's not have it at all |
| 04:37.46 | anrp | its counterproductive |
| 04:37.46 | cjb | anrp: Fedora, SuSE, Ubuntu, Gentoo, Debian.. that's about it. The distros that provide millions of users. |
| 04:38.07 | linux_galore | cjb: they all offer KDE |
| 04:38.08 | cjb | linux_galore: wait, now you're saying that GNOME's license isn't free enough? this whole conversation is backwards. :) |
| 04:38.18 | cjb | linux_galore: but not by default. |
| 04:38.21 | cjb | linux_galore: because no-one wants it. |
| 04:38.24 | anrp | ugh |
| 04:38.28 | unknown_lamer | in conclusion windowmaker is the best desktop environment qed |
| 04:38.41 | linux_galore | cjb: why do they all offer kde, could it be because people actually prefer is as Novell census shows |
| 04:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko mil__ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 04:39.07 | cjb | ... |
| 04:39.09 | mil__ | happy 9th :} |
| 04:39.15 | cjb | if they preferred it, it would be the default. |
| 04:39.19 | anrp | yes, its finally available for sale! |
| 04:39.24 | anrp | a lot of people have been waiting |
| 04:39.25 | happycube | my order's in |
| 04:39.49 | anrp | still will probably be another week before the people who ordered it actually get it |
| 04:39.53 | anrp | but.. hey, that's ok |
| 04:40.08 | CM | happycube: Add yourself if you feel like it :D |
| 04:40.14 | anrp | that's a number of days coutable with appendages, not quite a when it's ready thing |
| 04:40.19 | anrp | direct.openmoko.com |
| 04:41.41 | *** part/#openmoko soccerpirate4 (n=x97269@70-101-190-205.dsl2.mon.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 04:42.21 | linux_galore | cjb: no it wouldnt, your forgetting those companies also make "binary only" applications and you can do that with QT |
| 04:42.25 | mil__ | great! a shell on my phone. gonna love it.. ncurses your phone! ;) |
| 04:42.36 | anrp | mobile platform, not phone |
| 04:42.38 | carrar | PINE on a CELLPHONE |
| 04:42.39 | anrp | for now D: which is ok |
| 04:42.43 | carrar | thats heaven! |
| 04:42.53 | cjb | linux_galore: wow, you KDE guys have this massive conspiracy about why KDE isn't used by anyone. That's so cute. |
| 04:43.02 | anrp | yes pine ftw! ... err, no blanket statement there |
| 04:43.32 | anrp | a condescending attitude helps noone |
| 04:43.39 | linux_galore | cjb: no your ignoring the point, GTK allows comercial resellers of linux to link their "proprietry code" to GTC libs you cant do that with QT |
| 04:43.45 | anrp | ... |
| 04:43.49 | linux_galore | GTK* |
| 04:43.54 | cjb | linux_galore: do any of the distributions I named actually do that? |
| 04:44.01 | linux_galore | cjb: you bet |
| 04:44.04 | cjb | does Ubuntu? does Fedora? does Debian? |
| 04:44.20 | anrp | and ... not to fan the flame, but qt is also very available for commercial use |
| 04:44.33 | anrp | how do you think TT stays in business |
| 04:44.34 | linux_galore | cjb: go put hooks into the desktop for Oracle,,,,oops need LGPL |
| 04:44.38 | mil__ | are orders for europe taken as well? |
| 04:44.38 | aloril | mil__: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 04:44.42 | anrp | yes |
| 04:44.46 | anrp | however they ship through america |
| 04:44.53 | anrp | so shipping would likely be close to $100 |
| 04:45.24 | anrp | see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Group_Order |
| 04:45.26 | *** join/#openmoko crackfiend (n=chatzill@ppp-69-233-0-245.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 04:45.27 | anrp | maybe you can join in |
| 04:45.45 | summatusmentis | goodnight all |
| 04:45.51 | anrp | nite D: |
| 04:45.56 | mil__ | :( but i wannted the debug board.. 550 is pretty high for developing. thanks for the grouporder link |
| 04:46.15 | anrp | you don't need the debug board unless you brick the bootloader |
| 04:46.24 | anrp | which, admittedly, may happen, but it shouldnt(tm) |
| 04:46.32 | hads | You only need the debug board if you want to do uboot stuff or other very low level things. |
| 04:46.47 | linux_galore | cjb: Red Hat, Novell have hooks in their enterprise stuff for database integration, Ubuntu went with GTK because "they do have none free projects" |
| 04:47.06 | happycube | any idea why the phones are all FOB US? |
| 04:47.10 | linux_galore | cjb: you need GTK to do that |
| 04:47.14 | anrp | debug board also makes the flex cable signals easily available |
| 04:47.22 | anrp | so if you want to integrate it into something else you'd want it |
| 04:47.23 | mil__ | hopefully some neo's are offered at the ccc camp. that would be a nice shipping saver |
| 04:47.30 | anrp | ccc camp? |
| 04:47.43 | anrp | happycube: FIC is shipping them to their american branch which is handling distribution |
| 04:47.48 | anrp | it probably simplifies logistics |
| 04:47.54 | happycube | yeah |
| 04:47.56 | mil__ | anrp: events.ccc.de/camp/2007/ |
| 04:48.10 | happycube | i'm wondering why fic europe isn't involved as well though |
| 04:48.13 | happycube | ;) |
| 04:48.24 | anrp | i dunno ;/ |
| 04:48.41 | cjb | linux_galore: I just don't know of a single piece of software that distributions ship that is non-free and linked to GTK. Can you name one? |
| 04:49.19 | anrp | ... |
| 04:49.26 | anrp | this is pointless |
| 04:49.40 | linux_galore | cjb: Ubuntu have in house software they may want to distribute, I even went to a lecture and talked about it, if you want to link between oracle stuff and the desktop you cant use QT |
| 04:49.45 | anrp | mm, that ccc camp looks cool |
| 04:49.52 | anrp | too bad i'm nowhere near europe ;/ |
| 04:49.53 | cjb | "may want to ship" |
| 04:49.56 | cjb | so, you can't. |
| 04:50.33 | mil__ | anrp: ;) |
| 04:50.36 | linux_galore | cjb: no they can but when they went with Gnome one of the selling points was the LGPL license so if at a later date they want to sell none free enterprise stuff they can |
| 04:50.41 | anrp | and yes, you can link commercial code with QT |
| 04:50.47 | anrp | but i didn't say that |
| 04:51.24 | hads | anrp: Don't get sucked in by the trolls! :) |
| 04:51.33 | anrp | er, ccc camp is redundant |
| 04:51.44 | anrp | i meant, "ccc looks cool" |
| 04:51.48 | anrp | its hard work |
| 04:51.51 | anrp | misinformation and all D: |
| 04:52.05 | cjb | linux_galore: so, the reason every distribution with meaningful marketshare ships GNOME is that they don't ship non-free software, but they might eventually, and then they might need GNOME. |
| 04:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko ibnjam (i=cab96403@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-6e587343d1e10bcf) |
| 04:52.19 | cjb | linux_galore: you can understand that this doesn't sound at all convincing. |
| 04:52.39 | linux_galore | anyway, I have an easy nothing to do with me bit of hard to avoid evidence that people prefer kde called "Novells 2007 on line questionaire" |
| 04:53.51 | linux_galore | cjb: in the case of Red Hat and Novell yes they work with proprietary software so they cant use QT without paying for a per desk license |
| 04:54.11 | cjb | dude, proprietary software *already* involves paying for a per-desk license. |
| 04:54.36 | linux_galore | cjb: yes but when you "link" the code to GPL thats no allowed |
| 04:54.45 | linux_galore | not* |
| 04:54.53 | cjb | actually, it's distribution of linked code that's disallowed. |
| 04:55.15 | linux_galore | cjb: and what do Red Hat and Novell do, ooh yes distribute code |
| 04:56.19 | linux_galore | cjb: Red Hat have big deals with both Oracle and IBM |
| 04:56.38 | cjb | and is there some fantastic GTK Oracle frontend that ships with RHEL? |
| 04:56.40 | linux_galore | hmm hail |
| 04:56.52 | cjb | because, I haven't even heard of anything like that. |
| 04:56.57 | linux_galore | cjb: they have enterprise tool sets yes |
| 04:57.09 | linux_galore | cjb: you need to get out more |
| 04:57.12 | anrp | oi |
| 04:57.14 | anrp | you two |
| 04:57.34 | anrp | there is no way oracle is going to run on openmoko (is there even an arm version?) |
| 04:57.40 | anrp | so this is the wrong place |
| 04:57.41 | cjb | first you say proprietary code is evil and the reason everyone's being forced to use GNOME, then you say I need to get out more when I don't know anything about it (and use GNOME) :) |
| 04:58.04 | anrp | oracle on openmoko though, mmm |
| 04:58.09 | anrp | that would make some people drool |
| 04:58.13 | anrp | portable enterprise sql server |
| 04:58.34 | anrp | would it make the neo1973 a munition? D: |
| 04:58.34 | unknown_lamer | except that oracle is pretty bad |
| 04:58.38 | unknown_lamer | why not postgres instead? |
| 04:58.45 | anrp | i do agree, but thats it's reputation |
| 04:58.46 | cjb | Debian popularity figures for packages: |
| 04:58.55 | cjb | GNOME: 39911 |
| 04:58.56 | linux_galore | cjb: at the end of the day all i have to say is, show me "any" on line study showing gnome is that dominant with the end users |
| 04:58.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Group_Order]] [[User:Soccerpirate4]] [[P1_Owners]] |
| 04:59.04 | cjb | KDE: 16963 |
| 04:59.12 | cjb | linux_galore: I just did |
| 04:59.13 | anrp | postgres is a very good oss enterprise-ish sql solution |
| 04:59.20 | linux_galore | cjb: thats not a study |
| 04:59.47 | cjb | linux_galore: dude, yours was a web poll, which are notoriously reliable |
| 04:59.57 | cjb | linux_galore: mine was a list of how many individual computers have which packages installed |
| 05:00.01 | anrp | and would be more than enough as a storage backend |
| 05:00.02 | cjb | linux_galore: which of these shall we trust more? |
| 05:00.08 | linux_galore | cjb: the last open questionaire i saw showed KDE was the most used |
| 05:00.11 | anrp | although i think openmoko settles on libdb? |
| 05:00.14 | anrp | or was it sqlite? |
| 05:00.58 | cjb | linux_galore: it was wrong, HTH, HAND. |
| 05:01.06 | anrp | cmon guys help me out here ~_~ |
| 05:01.14 | anrp | drown them out D: |
| 05:01.14 | linux_galore | cjb: also gnome apps are not as integrated as kde stuff, often kde packages also include allot of built in support were with gnome its more spread out |
| 05:01.36 | cjb | linux_galore: isn't that a reason that the KDE numbers should have been *higher* than they were? |
| 05:01.40 | cjb | I don't understand what your point is. |
| 05:02.08 | aloril | OpenMoko hits /.: http://developers.slashdot.org/developers/07/07/09/0049249.shtml |
| 05:02.20 | aloril | or should I say Neo1973 ;-) |
| 05:02.20 | anrp | about time |
| 05:02.36 | anrp | well.. not necessarily a good thing in terms of expectations |
| 05:02.38 | linux_galore | cjb: ok KDE has a think called "core applications" you dont install these seperately like with Gnome they are all packed into a handful of packages |
| 05:02.39 | anrp | but publicity is good |
| 05:02.45 | linux_galore | thing* |
| 05:03.04 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@M506e.m.pppool.de) |
| 05:03.15 | cjb | linux_galore: the Debian figures are from the base packages |
| 05:03.40 | cjb | linux_galore: so all you're doing is suggesting that the GNOME numbers should be *higher* than they are already, because people in GNOME install individual packages separately. |
| 05:03.42 | linux_galore | cjb: yes but your ignoring the fact gnome breaks up its core apps into seperate packages kde doesnt |
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| 05:04.28 | cjb | ... |
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| 05:05.19 | galexande | you know, one real innovation in the iphone is the screen which is level with its bezels, so there isn't some ridge around it, it slopes away smoothly to become the edge of the phone |
| 05:05.27 | linux_galore | cjb: all the fsking plugins in gnome are rediculous kde = 1 package the whole lot |
| 05:05.29 | anrp | yeah |
| 05:05.31 | galexande | every reviewer mentions it, and it's (so far as i know) totally original, you don't even see that on star trek |
| 05:05.36 | anrp | that's hard to do with a touchscreen |
| 05:05.39 | cjb | linux_galore: I no longer know what point you're trying to make. |
| 05:05.43 | galexande | like, you do on the control panels, but not on their handheld devices :) |
| 05:05.48 | anrp | since you need to integrate the screen with whoever's making the case |
| 05:05.55 | anrp | instead of seperate source |
| 05:05.57 | cjb | galexande: That provides very little shielding against a drop. |
| 05:06.08 | galexande | anrp, yeah, it's an honestly difficult thing to do |
| 05:06.12 | galexande | cjb, true but |
| 05:06.21 | cjb | with the Neo, dropping it on the TFT side down will not break the TFT. |
| 05:06.23 | pa-ching | Cool, how is it connected? |
| 05:06.25 | cjb | bet it would if it were flush. |
| 05:06.43 | galexande | only time will tell |
| 05:06.45 | anrp | anyone dropping the neo on purpose to test that deserves to be shot |
| 05:06.46 | anrp | ;/ |
| 05:06.56 | anrp | in the foot, but shot nonetheless |
| 05:06.58 | galexande | it's a cellphone, it's lucky if it doesn't get thrown |
| 05:06.59 | pa-ching | Just really nice tolerances... a little epoxy...? |
| 05:07.21 | anrp | clear epoxy with the right index of refraction is likely impossible to find |
| 05:07.23 | linux_galore | cjb: ok lets compare gstreamer 187 packages kde =2 phones + phonon-extraplugins |
| 05:07.25 | galexande | pa-ching, beats me, the only takeapart i saw didn't get to removing the PCB from the display |
| 05:07.38 | linux_galore | s/phones/phonon/ |
| 05:07.38 | anrp | actually.. |
| 05:07.43 | anrp | you know what, now that i think about it |
| 05:07.49 | cjb | linux_galore: .. I just don't understand what you think the comparison means. |
| 05:07.51 | anrp | there's no reason it can't be seperate source |
| 05:08.03 | anrp | iphone uses a capacitive display, which works through acrylic or lexan, etc |
| 05:08.04 | cjb | How did we end up debating the aesthetics of package management? Why is it relevant? |
| 05:08.29 | linux_galore | cjb: because Gnome stuff has 10 packages were 1 is only needed in KDE |
| 05:08.33 | cjb | ... |
| 05:08.38 | anrp | most touchscreens (almost any for a dead stylus) are resistive and need the special outside layer |
| 05:08.39 | linux_galore | for exactly the same thing |
| 05:08.44 | cjb | that doesn't answer why it's relevant. why does it matter? |
| 05:08.49 | anrp | but a capacitive display can be flush easily (i have a tablet pc that's so) |
| 05:09.04 | linux_galore | cjb: means counting packages means nothing |
| 05:09.10 | cjb | I wasn't counting packages |
| 05:09.13 | cjb | you misunderstood |
| 05:09.22 | cjb | I was counting the number of *users* that have the *core package* for each desktop installed |
| 05:09.23 | anrp | capacitive is harder to get right, and also needs integration into the display |
| 05:09.31 | anrp | but it doesn't have the sensitive outside layer |
| 05:09.37 | anrp | and allows seperate source case |
| 05:09.43 | cjb | ie. twice as many people use GNOME as use KDE |
| 05:09.46 | cjb | under Debian |
| 05:10.01 | cjb | and we know this because there's a tool to report which packages you have installed, and lots of people use it |
| 05:10.09 | linux_galore | cjb: this is for debian who historically have always been shite for KDE, wow how am I suprised |
| 05:10.33 | unknown_lamer | uh that hasn't been true since kde2 was released |
| 05:10.41 | unknown_lamer | I know I've been using debian since ~2000 |
| 05:10.51 | unknown_lamer | and I used to use kde before becoming a real nerd |
| 05:10.59 | anrp | don't get sucked into the trap !! |
| 05:11.01 | unknown_lamer | or rather a very strange nerd |
| 05:11.01 | linux_galore | unknown_lamer: Im using debian and kde their setup is just rubbish |
| 05:11.08 | cjb | ooh, subtle put-down comparison, awesome. |
| 05:11.13 | unknown_lamer | /ignore troll |
| 05:11.20 | Clint | linux_galore: did you file bugs about it? |
| 05:11.39 | anrp | ... |
| 05:11.49 | linux_galore | Clint: yes as in my knetwork manager isnt working, konqueror crashes on flash |
| 05:12.20 | fo0bar | linux_galore: perhaps someone messed up your local installation |
| 05:12.22 | unknown_lamer | one app and a proprietary plugin that is known to be filled with bugs |
| 05:12.29 | cjb | linux_galore: you think networkmanager works for the rest of us? :) |
| 05:12.38 | Chairboy | From the slashdot thread: "Wake me when it syncs with iTunes and automatically pulls my contacts, music, movies, TV shows, and calendar." While some of these might seem dumb to us ("He's totally ignoring the fact that you can use apt-get from YOUR PHONE!"), it's an example of the kind of things that folks might want that aren't on the radar. Just a blip from /. |
| 05:12.41 | unknown_lamer | too hard to use on lsd |
| 05:12.53 | linux_galore | Clint: I must have posted half a dozen bug for kontact now some are so stupid ie icons not setup properly causing things to crash |
| 05:13.02 | anrp | lol |
| 05:13.02 | unknown_lamer | Chairboy: my neo will pull my cal automagically from emacs |
| 05:13.05 | anrp | lsd, eh |
| 05:13.10 | galexande | the only thing you need to operate on lsd is a bong, though |
| 05:13.11 | anrp | few phones cater to that market |
| 05:13.16 | pa-ching | Less GUI, more DWIM! :) |
| 05:13.19 | linux_galore | Clint: Kubuntu = everthing works |
| 05:13.22 | unknown_lamer | Chairboy: once I get one a few weeks in and bbdb import and such should be supported |
| 05:13.53 | unknown_lamer | anrp: all it needs is a command line. It is easy to tell the machine what to do |
| 05:13.54 | anrp | will it be easy to use? will it work? is it tested? supported? </devils-advocate> |
| 05:13.58 | unknown_lamer | xmms -e /music/... |
| 05:14.04 | unknown_lamer | versus click shit the mouse just moved on its own |
| 05:14.26 | Clint | linux_galore: i don't see your bug reports |
| 05:14.29 | anrp | the neo1973 probably can do everything listed there |
| 05:14.33 | Chairboy | Unknown_lamer: Good strategy, ignore "flash in the pan" apps like iTunes and Outlook and stick with time tested apps like emacs. |
| 05:14.34 | anrp | ...but! it lacks polish |
| 05:14.42 | Chairboy | :D |
| 05:14.54 | unknown_lamer | Chairboy: they are useless to me because I use emacs |
| 05:14.59 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 05:15.04 | linux_galore | anyway Im off |
| 05:15.04 | unknown_lamer | Chairboy: I enjoy being able to keep the same setup everywhere and use my desktop remotely |
| 05:15.05 | anrp | and if it doesn't work with windows well, it won't have mass market appeal as a smartphone |
| 05:15.08 | anrp | as a normal phone... maybe |
| 05:15.10 | unknown_lamer | the whole "never have to quit emacs" is nice too |
| 05:15.18 | unknown_lamer | especially with multitty and emacsclient that you can eval code with |
| 05:15.23 | anrp | an emacs user! kill im! |
| 05:15.31 | anrp | *cough* |
| 05:15.35 | unknown_lamer | that = emacs in screen + script to make-frame-on-display if I want to attach over the lan |
| 05:15.38 | Chairboy | UL: That's great for you, but just a thought, the more people that can use it out of the box, the more likely it is to sell well. |
| 05:15.49 | unknown_lamer | Chairboy: other people can hack on that? |
| 05:15.55 | unknown_lamer | I'm interested in making it work for me :-) |
| 05:15.56 | anrp | no |
| 05:15.59 | anrp | you're missing the point |
| 05:16.09 | anrp | other people *won't* hack on the mass market version |
| 05:16.15 | anrp | so it has to work out of the box |
| 05:16.22 | Chairboy | Yep |
| 05:16.24 | Chairboy | anrp++ |
| 05:16.30 | cjb | unknown_lamer: fwiw, I'm also using emacs/multitty right now :) |
| 05:16.35 | cjb | but anrp is correct. |
| 05:16.39 | unknown_lamer | I'm guessing someone else will make that work then |
| 05:16.48 | anrp | and that's the attitude that will cause it to fail |
| 05:16.48 | poffy | I was hoping on getting polishing stuff done too. Too bad I don't have 300 right now :( |
| 05:16.51 | unknown_lamer | but you can't force me to hack on unfun things :-) |
| 05:16.51 | anrp | cmon, seriously! |
| 05:17.05 | unknown_lamer | ok I should volunteer my time to a. learn apps I don't use b. write code to support apps I don' |
| 05:17.05 | unknown_lamer | t use |
| 05:17.15 | anrp | you can do whatever you want with it |
| 05:17.18 | anrp | that is the point after all |
| 05:17.27 | unknown_lamer | I'm fairly certain other people will add support for the fancy stuff |
| 05:17.34 | anrp | i'm just saying it won't have much appeal to non hackers if noone does the "fancy stuff" |
| 05:17.43 | anrp | which is considered basic functionality by the nonhackers |
| 05:17.57 | Chairboy | With volunteer projects, there's no way to force anyone to do anything. My concerns are from the project management standpoint, I just hope that the folks setting project priorities are aware of these things and ocnsidering them when suggesting priorities. |
| 05:18.14 | aloril | last night nick count record in this channel: 318 nicks, previous was 289 nicks at 2007-07-06 |
| 05:18.17 | unknown_lamer | cjb: heh I think it is time for emacs23 almost :-) multitty + xft + unicode-2 is a *lot* of new stuff already |
| 05:18.32 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:18.43 | linux_galore | theres a question, I wonder if FIC have got the phones approved ie to pass the WEEE regs for consumer goods |
| 05:18.55 | anrp | its probably rohs compliant |
| 05:19.01 | anrp | its hard not to be unless you build in the US |
| 05:19.35 | linux_galore | we had to swap all our production over last year, serious pain the the rear to do |
| 05:19.37 | anrp | not that i agree with rohs, lead in solder was put there for a reason |
| 05:19.53 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 05:20.38 | linux_galore | yeah, flux/lead being changed/removed has lead to some nasty problem, ie XBOX360's high failure rate is a direct consequence |
| 05:20.50 | anrp | lead is ductile, tin is not |
| 05:20.54 | anrp | its' pretty simple |
| 05:21.10 | anrp | sn/ag/cu mixes can do alright, but sn/pb really worked well |
| 05:21.17 | Chairboy | Also delicious. |
| 05:21.24 | anrp | lead is sweet from what i hear |
| 05:21.26 | linux_galore | anrp: we dont use tin, we use some silver stuff |
| 05:21.31 | anrp | no experience there though |
| 05:21.32 | anrp | uh.. |
| 05:21.42 | anrp | yes you use tin, lead free solder is almost always tin base |
| 05:21.48 | linux_galore | Im trying to remember he name of the stuff we use |
| 05:21.56 | anrp | you can get exotic mixes that use bismuth.. maybe |
| 05:22.07 | linux_galore | its got a weird name |
| 05:22.08 | anrp | but every single lead-free solder 75%+ tin |
| 05:22.12 | anrp | *is |
| 05:22.21 | linux_galore | we tried tin but is causes allot of problems |
| 05:22.26 | linux_galore | it* |
| 05:22.36 | anrp | well. alright, there are likely non tin workflows |
| 05:22.37 | carrar | that ccc camp looks fun, too bad I don't speak german |
| 05:22.45 | anrp | but they're probably even more problematic than lead-free |
| 05:22.55 | anrp | yeah, it does look neat |
| 05:23.05 | carrar | would totally be a hit here in the states |
| 05:23.11 | linux_galore | anrp: no our faulure rates have been the same as the lead stuff |
| 05:23.17 | linux_galore | failure* |
| 05:23.18 | carrar | geek version of burning man |
| 05:23.21 | anrp | then you're doing it right |
| 05:23.30 | anrp | do you deploy to below freezing environments? |
| 05:23.33 | linux_galore | anrp: took them 14 months to get it right |
| 05:24.45 | linux_galore | anrp: we have installs in Northern Russia and high humidity places like pacific resorts |
| 05:24.50 | anrp | i meant the operating temperature |
| 05:25.11 | linux_galore | anrp: its pretty wide but not much beyond -15 |
| 05:25.11 | anrp | i'm sure there are datacenters in singapore (1deg north) that are very cold, but that doesn't really mean anything |
| 05:25.21 | linux_galore | C |
| 05:25.22 | anrp | what is it? |
| 05:25.26 | anrp | environmental sensing? |
| 05:25.30 | linux_galore | let me look it up |
| 05:25.39 | anrp | probably a sensor of some sort.. |
| 05:25.46 | linux_galore | anrp: ooh our kit is telecomunications |
| 05:26.02 | linux_galore | ie telephones, repeaters etc |
| 05:26.10 | anrp | mm |
| 05:26.17 | anrp | i'd be interested in knowing what solder blend you're using |
| 05:26.29 | anrp | but..! again, this has no relation to openmoko :-) |
| 05:26.53 | linux_galore | anrp: doubt they will tell me Im in marketing and around here its a need to know thing |
| 05:26.58 | anrp | figures |
| 05:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko gresh_ (n=christop@M5dcf.m.pppool.de) |
| 05:28.12 | roh | carrar there will be many international visitors on the camp. the ccc wants it to be international and thus if possible also workshops and speeches are english. only in some cases its really better someone speaks native languanges before nobody understands it |
| 05:28.31 | linux_galore | anrp: al I know is they used Germany as the experimental base for installs because they had already enforced a defacto weee-like standards environment |
| 05:28.38 | anrp | heh |
| 05:29.16 | anrp | weee... sounds like wiiii! |
| 05:29.18 | anrp | yes, i know |
| 05:29.49 | anrp | roh: true, but it's still far away from the us :/ europe has an actual rail system that doesn't suck |
| 05:30.02 | linux_galore | stupid name I must agree, some swedish pen pusher on crack must have created that name |
| 05:30.03 | anrp | so its more accessible to you |
| 05:30.27 | anrp | japan has an amazing rail system but that's japan |
| 05:30.33 | carrar | so far to pack all my stuff :) |
| 05:30.35 | anrp | italy's is pretty good |
| 05:30.41 | mil__ | you can fly there by plane :D but the camp 3 years ahead in the netherland would also worth the trip, maybe even more ;) |
| 05:30.44 | carrar | I love Japan |
| 05:30.49 | carrar | was just there not long ago |
| 05:31.01 | anrp | yeah, i went some time ago, about a month |
| 05:31.03 | linux_galore | anrp: fastest train in the world in Japan, ie the meglev |
| 05:31.10 | anrp | also went to singapore .. holy christ, humid |
| 05:31.17 | linux_galore | +500km/h |
| 05:31.19 | carrar | going again in 6-12 months |
| 05:31.23 | anrp | lucky D: |
| 05:31.31 | anrp | i had business in sg, so i stopped in japan on the way |
| 05:31.38 | anrp | its halfway around the world for me |
| 05:31.44 | anrp | a bloody long trip |
| 05:32.00 | carrar | <- seattle |
| 05:32.02 | carrar | same here |
| 05:32.07 | anrp | that would make you 5 hours closer :P |
| 05:32.08 | linux_galore | there is a video on youtube of someone taking ride on the Japanese maglev |
| 05:32.11 | carrar | long flight |
| 05:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-217-101.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 05:32.20 | carrar | less long :) |
| 05:32.28 | anrp | i had a 24 hour trip to go from boston -> sg |
| 05:32.30 | anrp | that truly sucked |
| 05:32.48 | carrar | 11 hour flight from seattle |
| 05:32.52 | carrar | err 10 |
| 05:32.53 | anrp | i guess i could have gone to australia ... |
| 05:32.55 | anrp | that would be a bit worse |
| 05:32.56 | carrar | somewhere in there |
| 05:33.10 | linux_galore | trans-pacific flights seriously suck |
| 05:33.29 | carrar | All I remember is 4 in flight movies |
| 05:33.32 | carrar | heh |
| 05:33.55 | linux_galore | I go nuts after 4 hours so I take sleeping pills |
| 05:34.15 | anrp | i took a half kilowatt hour of lithium |
| 05:34.20 | anrp | that worked for me |
| 05:34.26 | linux_galore | yeah |
| 05:34.31 | linux_galore | lol |
| 05:35.01 | linux_galore | anrp: your ahir not growing for weeks must be a downer |
| 05:35.04 | linux_galore | hair* |
| 05:35.10 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 05:35.11 | anrp | D; |
| 05:36.05 | linux_galore | well I went from Sydney to London last feb, god I hate that more than going to USA |
| 05:36.42 | linux_galore | Sydney to HK is about my mental limit for sitting in a metal tube |
| 05:42.25 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:43.29 | linux_galore | that and the weather was miserable in London |
| 05:44.09 | linux_galore | I better go just got a call |
| 05:44.11 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 05:44.15 | *** part/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-67-149.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 05:46.58 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-84-75.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 05:47.14 | daMaestro | wow.. the site is still getting pounded |
| 05:47.26 | anrp | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:49.02 | *** join/#openmoko darwin81 (n=chatzill@100.138.202.68.cfl.res.rr.com) |
| 05:51.05 | daMaestro | yeah. |
| 05:51.08 | daMaestro | i just read |
| 05:51.16 | daMaestro | the only thing that is online is the mailing list archive :-) |
| 05:51.41 | daMaestro | it seemed to me that the openmoko.com site was static, so i figured it would perform as well as, say, a mailman archive |
| 05:51.56 | daMaestro | the wiki is pounded too right now |
| 05:52.41 | daMaestro | oh well... we can still use the https://direct.openmoko.com/ ... so if anyone knows about this channel.. they can still buy |
| 05:53.13 | mil__ | how many are sold allready? |
| 05:56.51 | darwin81 | Holy Crap! This project is gaining a lot of momentum. I hope by the time the mass market version is released the general public will realize that this is the true revolutionary phone , not the HypePhone. |
| 05:58.08 | mil__ | darwin81: arm os10 holy crap :/ |
| 05:58.52 | darwin81 | huh? |
| 05:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8A4E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:00.37 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B8DC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:01.17 | *** join/#openmoko juri_ (i=[wY6aLvR@volumehost.com) |
| 06:02.01 | juri_ | so, openmoko.com is out. ;) |
| 06:02.11 | xkr47 | aloril, I think /. also hit openmoko :) |
| 06:02.28 | aloril | xkr47: yup (already noticed if you scroll up;-) |
| 06:02.53 | xkr47 | yeah except you said openmoko it /. :) |
| 06:03.00 | hads | See topic if you want to buy. |
| 06:03.02 | aloril | and it shows: site doesn't load now (myself of course made it now once/h instead ofevery 5 minutes) |
| 06:03.37 | aloril | yeah, that link works still |
| 06:03.58 | hads | xkr47: It might just be slow. |
| 06:04.17 | xkr47 | it sent the first attempt (seen in the syslog) immediately.. |
| 06:04.29 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@adsl-89-217-134-207.adslplus.ch) |
| 06:04.30 | aloril | hads: well, he ordered several hours ago, it wasn't /.: at that time (though I think it had hit digg at that point) |
| 06:04.44 | hads | I've only ever had exchange not retry for greylisting, but some others can take hours. |
| 06:04.51 | xkr47 | hads, yeah I ordered 6 hours ago |
| 06:05.17 | hads | aloril: It's been slow since 9am this morning (UTC+12) |
| 06:05.18 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d5152D19B.access.telenet.be) |
| 06:05.19 | xkr47 | hads, ok let's hope they don't have some too hacky perl script there :) |
| 06:05.41 | daMaestro | that's sure what it looks like |
| 06:05.54 | aloril | hads: hmm... OK, but I got my confirmation mail quite fast |
| 06:05.59 | hads | xkr47: It's RT that's sending them so it could be unless it passes off to a mail server first :) |
| 06:06.01 | daMaestro | returning blank pages if you don't use two capital letters for a state |
| 06:06.03 | daMaestro | lol |
| 06:06.16 | hads | daMaestro: Yeah the error checking is dodgy. |
| 06:06.26 | daMaestro | oh well.. i got my order in ;-) |
| 06:06.26 | xkr47 | :) |
| 06:06.27 | daMaestro | lol |
| 06:06.42 | xkr47 | NOQUEUE: reject: RCPT from internal.openmoko.org[88.198.93.220]: 450 .... |
| 06:06.49 | ljp | lets hope the openmoko developers arent the ones that also develop the web site |
| 06:07.05 | anrp | aren't? |
| 06:07.13 | aloril | will it take day or week before 1000 units have sold? (I guess they will start producing more so maybe it doesn't actually run out if it takes a week to sell 1000 units) |
| 06:07.17 | xkr47 | anyway, they have my information, and I don't think my order will get rejected even if the email doesn't show up |
| 06:07.22 | anrp | actually, i would almost argue otherwise, the website is well presented |
| 06:07.32 | anrp | it may be slow but most things are with a /. |
| 06:07.33 | *** join/#openmoko gresh__ (n=christop@M525e.m.pppool.de) |
| 06:07.48 | daMaestro | i thought the openmoko.com site looked great |
| 06:08.02 | xkr47 | the web site is very nicely done, I agree |
| 06:08.18 | anrp | there are a couple polish things that i noticed... but since i'm a dev, i don't care D: |
| 06:08.33 | hads | xkr47: roh was kind enough to check the order list manually for someone earlier today so he may do the same for you if you catch him when he's around. |
| 06:08.58 | daMaestro | the one thing that i really would have liked to see is a non-self signed cert |
| 06:09.13 | daMaestro | even a CACert.org signed cert would have been better |
| 06:09.39 | ynezz | wiki seems to be on same server like moko.com :p |
| 06:09.51 | hads | daMaestro: roh was also going to sort out a CACert cert for the site I believe as someone else brought it to his attention. |
| 06:10.01 | aloril | hmm.. same IP for openmoko.com and direct.openmoko.com but direct is still faster? |
| 06:10.05 | xkr47 | I have my phone number listed as well and I checked all addresses and credit card info as well.. so they should be able to get it done.. and after all if they try sending mail with any normal mail client, it will come through.. |
| 06:10.28 | xkr47 | daMaestro, true |
| 06:10.37 | ynezz | whats the latest # ? |
| 06:10.40 | ynezz | +- |
| 06:10.55 | roh | ouchies... |
| 06:11.15 | hads | Ouch, good luck roh |
| 06:11.20 | daMaestro | aloril, normally the https and http daemons have their own resources |
| 06:11.35 | aloril | daMaestro: I guess that explains it then |
| 06:11.45 | daMaestro | roh, just have it kill threads very, very often.... and use mod_cache with mod_mem_cache enabled |
| 06:12.01 | daMaestro | roh, ooorrrrr.... bring a squid up.. and then just use mod_proxy to the squid |
| 06:12.01 | aloril | (note missing M) |
| 06:12.41 | daMaestro | roh, are you seeing more RAM usage per thread? or more CPU? what threading model is in use? |
| 06:12.58 | daMaestro | we managed to not go down for the f7 release |
| 06:14.50 | anrp | what? |
| 06:14.56 | daMaestro | who? |
| 06:15.01 | anrp | you dare question the power of /.!? |
| 06:15.15 | daMaestro | no, not at all |
| 06:15.26 | daMaestro | i was more offering up my help; but take it as you wish |
| 06:15.40 | anrp | ;/ |
| 06:15.43 | Stephmw | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:16.00 | anrp | its 2am est, 11pm pst... not too many usians awake |
| 06:16.43 | daMaestro | my point is that it is obviously not a networking issues |
| 06:16.46 | daMaestro | issue* |
| 06:17.00 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in |
| 06:17.00 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in |
| 06:18.30 | xkr47 | nice, I didn't know a stylus was included int he base kit |
| 06:18.46 | daMaestro | yeah, it's got a nice pimp'n case too |
| 06:18.47 | daMaestro | lol |
| 06:19.01 | daMaestro | the lanyard is a nice touch too |
| 06:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@M5c3c.m.pppool.de) |
| 06:20.49 | anrp | shipping prob? |
| 06:21.50 | *** join/#openmoko florit (n=florit@adsl-074-236-077-040.sip.bct.bellsouth.net) |
| 06:21.58 | florit | good evening |
| 06:22.19 | aloril | anrp: for that week, it could be earlier or later |
| 06:22.52 | aloril | counter |
| 06:22.52 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, 3 days 05:37:07 (10.234±3.0 days) (1721;246) |
| 06:23.14 | aloril | see londerings page for *guesses* |
| 06:23.17 | anrp | ... |
| 06:23.28 | anrp | probabilities, heh |
| 06:24.55 | *** join/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 06:25.34 | *** join/#openmoko hoschi (n=arndt@dslb-084-061-131-061.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 06:25.37 | florit | anyone play with a OM yet? |
| 06:25.38 | aloril | florit: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 06:25.44 | *** part/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 06:26.54 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 06:27.03 | aloril | florit: many, with Neo1973 less but still probably more than 10 persons present of those too |
| 06:27.35 | florit | probably a repeat/dumb question, but how does it compare to an iphone? |
| 06:27.45 | anrp | it fails, utterly |
| 06:27.49 | anrp | thats where the devs come in |
| 06:27.51 | anrp | to make it great |
| 06:27.57 | florit | *nod* |
| 06:28.02 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 06:28.21 | aloril | or for current version actually: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone_%28GTA01%29 |
| 06:28.45 | xkr47 | anrp, allow me to be subjective on that one :) |
| 06:28.57 | anrp | mm? |
| 06:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B8DC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:29.30 | aloril | anrp: umm.. you mean iPhone fails utterly ;-) |
| 06:29.35 | anrp | it will |
| 06:29.38 | anrp | but that's future |
| 06:29.43 | anrp | first we have to get better |
| 06:29.53 | aloril | its already better for me ;-) |
| 06:30.24 | anrp | for the devs, it is |
| 06:30.41 | anrp | i also think its better than the iphone, but i am not typical, and neither are most of us |
| 06:31.20 | florit | I'm a linux user and fan, but I've not done dev in a while, and doubt i'll have the time to roll my own os for the phone (unfortunately) |
| 06:31.45 | daMaestro | filing bugs needs to be done too ;-) |
| 06:31.46 | aloril | anrp: yeah, for end user iPhone is better now |
| 06:32.42 | florit | hehe :) |
| 06:32.57 | ozamosi | aloril: which end user? :P |
| 06:33.00 | florit | wifi not available on the current pass? :) |
| 06:33.24 | aloril | ozamosi: somebody who has never used computers and has not used mobile phones too and is scared |
| 06:33.26 | anrp | sadly |
| 06:33.28 | aloril | ;-) |
| 06:33.42 | aloril | wifi? |
| 06:33.42 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 06:34.00 | florit | bummer. |
| 06:34.29 | mil__ | a usb dongle? |
| 06:34.52 | CM | mil__: It's an unpowered usb host on the neo |
| 06:34.53 | anrp | that woudl be the epitome of bizzare |
| 06:35.08 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 06:35.25 | anrp | "Here's a wifi enabled mobile phone... and by wifi enabled, we mean you can plug in a usb card half the size of the device" |
| 06:35.40 | anrp | itll be hard to really develop wifi apps without wifi |
| 06:35.43 | anrp | but there you go :/ |
| 06:35.51 | mil__ | CM: got a battery powered usb hub installed in my bag :) |
| 06:36.03 | CM | mil__: Oh, cool :D |
| 06:37.00 | florit | hrm. OK. I'm a fan, but there is plenty left to do before this is consumer level.. |
| 06:37.19 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness (n=koen@host86-131-236-115.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 06:37.34 | florit | i appreciate the info... thank you. :) Good luck! |
| 06:37.48 | guerby | hmm no email with order number after 10 hours, I guess something went wrong with my order... |
| 06:37.55 | lindi- | the non-free gpsd was the first negative thing that caught my eye :( |
| 06:38.18 | anrp | unsurprising really |
| 06:38.21 | *** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=admin@209.80-202-220.nextgentel.com) |
| 06:38.22 | anrp | not that that's a good thing |
| 06:38.24 | CM | guerby: I got the automatic store confirmation mail within a minute last night |
| 06:38.36 | anrp | but to get to the same level as the gsm hardware, the gps chipset would need to be bigger |
| 06:38.46 | anrp | since it would have to have its own processor to extract pvt |
| 06:38.50 | guerby | CM, on the wiki page nearly everyone has the number |
| 06:38.55 | mil__ | florit: there's a shell + usb, bluetooth and wifi. do you need more? ;) |
| 06:39.25 | CM | guerby: xkr47's mail didn't arrive either. Probably stuck in some mail filter |
| 06:39.30 | anrp | it would also consume more power |
| 06:39.37 | guerby | CM, I'll wait a bit more |
| 06:39.43 | jonkristian | Hmm, I wonder, will there be an upgrade option when the mass market model comes out in october? |
| 06:40.02 | CM | jonkristian: No, you'll have to buy the next version of the phone |
| 06:40.19 | xkr47 | I'm guessing the default notification mail sending is not very robust :P |
| 06:40.28 | aloril | so if you were really fast or slightly slow you got mail just fine |
| 06:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 06:41.33 | jonkristian | CM: ok, thanks. |
| 06:41.44 | aloril | lindi-: hopefully GPS part will be reverse engineered, efforts are progressing |
| 06:42.26 | lindi- | aloril: i'm just wondering why gps was included in the first place if no free solution was found :/ |
| 06:42.36 | aloril | jonkristian: well, there *might* be option to buy GTA02 without case and display ... but that is just *might* |
| 06:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-0ad2d75d9187f4f5) |
| 06:43.04 | xkr47 | how is the display connected, can one "easily" remove it ? |
| 06:43.13 | xkr47 | or is there 200 soldered pins ? |
| 06:43.17 | *** join/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 06:43.19 | aloril | lindi-: its user space library, not kernel module so I guess it was not showstopper for laforge |
| 06:43.22 | anrp | fpc iirc |
| 06:43.25 | jonkristian | aloril: Only thing that stops me from buying it now is the lack of wifi |
| 06:43.38 | lindi- | aloril: it doesn't really matter to me where it is :) |
| 06:43.52 | Tronic | hi lindi- |
| 06:44.01 | lindi- | Tronic: evening, er, morning |
| 06:44.33 | jonkristian | And $140 shipping to norway, wow, hehe |
| 06:44.54 | aloril | lindi-: just wait until its reverse engineered or some future device with free GPS driver |
| 06:44.55 | *** join/#openmoko gaboo (n=gaboo@62.147.138.178) |
| 06:45.06 | xkr47 | editing wiki is slow.. :) |
| 06:45.29 | CM | aloril: Koen said that gta01 hw design was outsourced, but gta02 was done all in-house |
| 06:45.54 | CM | aloril: And I guess LaF0rge was involved a lot in that |
| 06:46.12 | aloril | CM: yes, but hammerhead comes from gta01 ;-) |
| 06:46.22 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 06:46.27 | CM | aloril: Heh, true.. |
| 06:46.32 | aloril | CM: and if rumors are true, then GTA02 actually might have free driver |
| 06:46.41 | CM | Would be great |
| 06:46.43 | aloril | (or is it about GTA03?) |
| 06:47.26 | aloril | hopefully not much difference in chip itself (claims are that hh is quite good) |
| 06:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2C7A7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:47.48 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 06:47.57 | aloril | morning TRIsoft |
| 06:48.03 | dkirker | Hi. It seems that there is some misinformation on the wiki. |
| 06:48.14 | aloril | dkirker: where? |
| 06:48.20 | dkirker | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Can_PalmOS_apps_applications_be_ported_to_run_on_OpenMoko.3F |
| 06:48.34 | dkirker | Regarding the Foleo and "POSE" in ALP. |
| 06:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko cschep (i=42e01272@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-9d73a2648fc31b5d) |
| 06:49.04 | aloril | dkirker: feel free to fix it (I don't know about those) |
| 06:49.30 | dkirker | AFAIK, the Foleo will *NOT* run Palm applications and ALP will use GHost |
| 06:49.41 | dkirker | but yeah, I'll edit |
| 06:50.04 | roh | For the prefork MPM, this directive sets the maximum configured value for MaxClients for the lifetime of the Apache process. For the worker MPM, this directive in combination with ThreadLimit sets the maximum configured value for MaxClients for the lifetime of the Apache process. Any attempts to change this directive during a restart will be ignored, but MaxClients can be modified during a restart. |
| 06:50.13 | roh | eek..,. sorry |
| 06:51.11 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A34ADD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 06:51.18 | *** join/#openmoko mashi99 (n=alanleun@pool-70-19-90-161.ny325.east.verizon.net) |
| 06:51.40 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-67c8078222cba8de) |
| 06:51.55 | mashi99 | what is the difference between base model and advance model ? |
| 06:51.55 | aloril | mashi99: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 06:52.12 | CM | mashi99: It says in the store |
| 06:52.41 | aloril | and FAQ too should answer which one you need |
| 06:53.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:54.14 | mashi99 | errr.. advance come with jtag I guess.. |
| 06:54.29 | mashi99 | 640x480 sound promising |
| 06:54.59 | CM | mashi99: It's the same phone in both, but yes, a jtag debug board |
| 06:55.24 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 06:55.32 | mashi99 | CM : I know same phone.. but I think advance come with jtag. that's how u can unbrick your phone |
| 06:56.14 | CM | mashi99: Yes. But unless you really screw up uboot, you won't brick it :) |
| 06:56.42 | mashi99 | yeah.. the developer version really barebone compare to the mass market :( |
| 06:56.50 | CM | I'm sure there will be loads of bricked phones anyway |
| 06:57.06 | mashi99 | lol |
| 06:57.11 | CM | Wouldn't be suprised if I managed to brick mine too some time. :P |
| 06:57.23 | mashi99 | the cpu is 266 or 400MHz ? |
| 06:57.34 | CM | 266 in these p1's |
| 06:57.47 | sixfeet | moin ihrz |
| 06:57.49 | CM | And no wifi or accelerometers |
| 06:57.55 | mashi99 | i know.. |
| 06:58.05 | mashi99 | that's what i concert.. |
| 06:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db518f7.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 06:59.16 | mashi99 | btw i don't have linux box anymore.. running OSX. damn |
| 06:59.17 | hads | mashi99: Debugboard, 2 x battery, 2 x SD card, Toolbox, tools. |
| 06:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mib (n=rob_w@p549B8DC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:59.53 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 07:00.01 | *** join/#openmoko aesci99 (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 07:00.35 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:01.22 | roh | >250 <300 tickets. |
| 07:01.41 | hads | That was quick :) |
| 07:01.41 | aloril | woah, they are indeed going quite fast |
| 07:02.02 | aloril | 1000 could be gone today |
| 07:02.02 | mashi99 | the production version will be 400MHz ? |
| 07:02.13 | roh | could |
| 07:02.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone_%28GTA01%29]] [[P1_Owners]] [[IPhone]] [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 07:02.25 | xkr47 | does the openmoko team want bug reports for web page bugs ? |
| 07:02.27 | roh | mashi99 gta02 will |
| 07:02.42 | roh | xkr47 we do :) |
| 07:02.45 | xkr47 | the developers kit Hardware section says "as a bonus, we ship _a_ 512 MB card" but while it clearly contains 2 |
| 07:03.04 | xkr47 | I guess it shows the same hardware page for both kits |
| 07:03.09 | mashi99 | roh : I think GTA02 is 266 ? |
| 07:03.24 | xkr47 | roh, so there's my report :) |
| 07:03.37 | aloril | mashi99: no, thats 400Mhz |
| 07:03.40 | buz | GTA02 is 400mhz at least |
| 07:03.42 | mashi99 | oh.. sorry.. that's GTA01 |
| 07:03.59 | buz | woah they could really buy a ssl cert for that site ;) |
| 07:04.16 | hads | CACert would be fine. |
| 07:04.29 | hads | It goes with the open theme :) |
| 07:04.31 | buz | does the site calculate shipping costs somehow |
| 07:04.42 | mashi99 | sigh... if I get GTA01 and production version come out.. i wonder if i want to get production version :( |
| 07:04.52 | xkr47 | roh, if you can be bothered, I heard you may have the possibility to verify the orders.. my mail server has greylist filtering and it seems the confirmation mail got lost.. |
| 07:04.53 | *** join/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:05.10 | mashi99 | any word how big microsd it will support ? |
| 07:05.22 | gamin | I just get a blank page in step two |
| 07:05.23 | xkr47 | mashi99, 2MB confirmed for GTA01, 8MB unconfirmed for GTA02 |
| 07:05.29 | mashi99 | ok |
| 07:05.30 | mashi99 | thanks |
| 07:05.35 | hads | s/MB/GB/ |
| 07:05.36 | buz | xkr47: GB |
| 07:05.42 | xkr47 | lol :DD |
| 07:05.46 | xkr47 | thx hads & buz |
| 07:05.50 | buz | we assume 4GB and 8GB will work |
| 07:05.54 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 07:06.15 | buz | but we dont know for sure yet |
| 07:06.15 | aloril | mashi99: unknown whether 4GB and bigger work on GTA01B_04 |
| 07:06.15 | xkr47 | gamin, 09:06 < daMaestro> returning blank pages if you don't use two capital letters for a state |
| 07:06.17 | mashi99 | i have few 2G |
| 07:06.34 | aloril | nobody with Neo1973 has managed to get hold of 4GB microSD |
| 07:06.39 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 07:06.46 | mashi99 | damn.. i want neo1973. but i want GTA02 |
| 07:06.47 | buz | 8G doesnt currently ship |
| 07:06.52 | xkr47 | aloril, well news will get out in a week or so I suppose :) |
| 07:06.58 | buz | but if 4G works, so should 8-32G |
| 07:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko homyx (n=homyx@ppp-88-217-12-201.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 07:07.21 | mashi99 | i wonder if they will give discount to developer when GTA02 release |
| 07:07.33 | xkr47 | gamin, saw my comment there ? |
| 07:07.43 | buz | mashi99: not announced so far |
| 07:07.50 | drkludge | mashi99, the discount is now with the gta01 |
| 07:07.54 | sannes | mashi99: they already gave a discount on gta01 so .. |
| 07:07.57 | buz | but if you publish something good, chances are you could get a free one ;) |
| 07:08.02 | sannes | mashi99: probably not |
| 07:08.04 | mashi99 | sannes : I know |
| 07:08.13 | xkr47 | I just hope openmoko can manage financially |
| 07:08.24 | buz | i would expect them to hand out a few more free units to select people |
| 07:08.28 | mashi99 | hmm.. any of you guys used iphone ? |
| 07:08.29 | buz | so get busy developping ;) |
| 07:08.47 | xkr47 | I hope they don't sell GTA01 cheaper than they cost to manufacture |
| 07:09.01 | gamin | thanks xkr47 |
| 07:09.02 | buz | if that costs 300$ to make something's very wrong |
| 07:09.08 | xkr47 | gamin, did it help? |
| 07:09.15 | gamin | yes |
| 07:09.22 | buz | then again, with bad yield it might cost that much |
| 07:09.35 | xkr47 | there should be someone updating the sale page to add that note about the states then |
| 07:09.39 | mashi99 | in some way. iphone is really nice. anyone could use it.. but i played with my friend's moto's linux base phone.. it sucks.. i think it is the gui |
| 07:09.43 | gamin | what is the difference between the first three shipping options? they are all more or less the same |
| 07:09.49 | xkr47 | it's nuts if many people just get a blank pag |
| 07:09.50 | xkr47 | e |
| 07:09.57 | CM | THat's a serious bug |
| 07:09.59 | buz | mashi99: it's moto, they cant do phone gui for their lifes |
| 07:10.00 | xkr47 | gamin, delivery speed |
| 07:10.08 | CM | xkr47: The capital letter I mean |
| 07:10.09 | mashi99 | buz : i know.. |
| 07:10.14 | xkr47 | CM, exactly |
| 07:10.25 | mashi99 | buz : they already improved a lot.. lol |
| 07:10.43 | xkr47 | oh, it is |
| 07:10.46 | buz | NFW i would voluntarily use a moto phone |
| 07:11.03 | buz | as for mass market phones, s60 is about the only bearable platform |
| 07:11.21 | mashi99 | buz: S60 sucks |
| 07:11.22 | daMaestro | xkr47, or just fix the bug ;-) |
| 07:11.29 | aloril | mashi99: GTA01B_v04 price already includes $50 discount |
| 07:11.30 | xkr47 | I don't have access :) |
| 07:11.39 | xkr47 | it's not a wiki :) |
| 07:11.44 | buz | some people i know have nokia e series phones |
| 07:11.50 | buz | easily the best thing thats widely available imho |
| 07:11.55 | xkr47 | (inaw) |
| 07:12.06 | mashi99 | buz : I play with E61i today |
| 07:12.41 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 07:13.05 | buz | realistically, there are 3 smart phone platforms around these days: s60, winmobile and uiq |
| 07:13.13 | buz | uiq3 crashes even more than winmobile |
| 07:13.15 | buz | leaves slow s60 |
| 07:13.30 | jeddy3 | and both uiq and s60 build on symbian right? |
| 07:13.34 | mashi99 | buz : N95 is fast |
| 07:13.44 | mashi99 | it is depend on the phone's cpu |
| 07:14.14 | buz | well the n95 costs more than many a laptop |
| 07:14.35 | mashi99 | jeddy : Symbian S60. UIQ is like subset of symbian |
| 07:14.41 | mashi99 | buz : yeah.. and it sucks |
| 07:14.50 | jeddy3 | mashi99, right |
| 07:15.00 | buz | symbian is the os, uiq the gui |
| 07:15.05 | mashi99 | buz : i used N95 for 1 day. the GPS is slow |
| 07:15.06 | buz | think off it like linux and gnome/kde |
| 07:15.20 | aloril | buz: well, motorola uses Linux, actually I recall seeing that Linux has bigger % on smartphones than winme (but I might rememeber wrong though) |
| 07:15.26 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@M5511.m.pppool.de) |
| 07:15.45 | buz | aloril: i dont consider closed moto crap as smartphones, that category by definition must run native apps |
| 07:16.00 | buz | and j2me!=native |
| 07:16.00 | mashi99 | aloril : winmobile is better than those moto linux phone right now |
| 07:16.01 | aloril | buz: OK ;-) |
| 07:16.23 | buz | winmobile has very sweet hardware |
| 07:16.43 | buz | htc makes some damn nice gear |
| 07:16.47 | mashi99 | i have palm, winmobile and iphone now. i just stay away with moto linux and symbian |
| 07:16.58 | mashi99 | but neo1973 is difference story |
| 07:17.06 | buz | palm is ridiculous, that os can't even do tcp/ip right |
| 07:17.31 | buz | (they main reason that treo dont have wifi, besides telcos, is that palm os simply cant handle more than one upstream) |
| 07:17.36 | mashi99 | since moto linux is just the base. nothing really can related to linux |
| 07:17.48 | mashi99 | buz: right.. palmos sucks |
| 07:17.57 | jeddy3 | anyway, i have a e61...and it's a quite impressive display on how crippled you could make a toy with so much hardware possibilities |
| 07:18.26 | buz | jeddy3: well its supposed to compete with blackberries |
| 07:18.28 | mashi99 | jeddy : I just don't like symbian. after I use SE P910(UIQ) |
| 07:18.34 | buz | and as far as that goes, i like it much more than crackberry |
| 07:18.59 | mashi99 | buz : I like my blackberry :P good email machine |
| 07:19.14 | mashi99 | all i can say. email. that's it |
| 07:19.14 | buz | too big, useless as phone |
| 07:19.27 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 07:19.31 | mashi99 | buz : I am using pearl |
| 07:19.46 | buz | is that keyboard usable? |
| 07:19.49 | jeddy3 | buz, yeah, and i have never owned a blackerry...but still... |
| 07:19.58 | mashi99 | buz : it's ok.. can't compare with full keyboard |
| 07:21.04 | jeddy3 | quite big awesome screen, full qwerty keyboard, wifi, etc....nah!, well just make a halfassed port from some of our other phones os |
| 07:21.11 | buz | i would get a htc device over a blackberry anytime |
| 07:21.24 | mashi99 | buz : I think why neo1973 can't play video now.. coz cpu and GPU have no acceleration |
| 07:21.40 | buz | you might be able to play 320x240 video |
| 07:21.50 | buz | i hear different stories about that |
| 07:22.01 | mjr | yeah, there was some encouraging stuff on the wiki about video |
| 07:22.04 | mashi99 | buz : well.. for battery life. blackberry is way better than htc |
| 07:22.18 | mjr | 'course, the mass market model should be much better |
| 07:22.35 | buz | yeah but htc is half the size |
| 07:22.53 | mashi99 | buz : which one ? |
| 07:22.58 | buz | s620 |
| 07:23.01 | buz | or if you really want small, samsung has some very tiny qwerty winmobile |
| 07:23.16 | mashi99 | i know.. |
| 07:23.35 | mashi99 | treo750 battery life sucks |
| 07:23.49 | buz | heck, if it would run linux, i'd get a ubiquio 501 any day |
| 07:24.26 | mashi99 | buz : lol |
| 07:24.59 | sannes | Does the neo1973 have different speakers for ringtone and voice ? |
| 07:25.00 | aloril | btw.. is that "need 2 letter uppercase" for USA order fixed yet? |
| 07:25.26 | mashi99 | this one have touch screen right ? |
| 07:25.45 | buz | mashi99: nothing to be said against a qwerty phone with qvga touchscreen, wifi and 2mp cam for roughly 300EUR |
| 07:26.12 | roh | uffff |
| 07:26.17 | mashi99 | but 200Mhz.. you will know how slow it is.. |
| 07:26.34 | *** part/#openmoko xanalogica (n=jeff@adsl-68-95-135-33.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
| 07:26.45 | mashi99 | buz : 200MHz winmobile phone.. slow |
| 07:27.08 | aloril | sannes: its stereo (don't think there is anything special for voice) |
| 07:28.10 | *** join/#openmoko hoschi (n=arndt@dslb-084-061-142-081.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 07:28.11 | sannes | aloril: okay, so the volume levels are just different from when the phone is ringing and when making a call? |
| 07:28.26 | aloril | sannes: that is all software issue I think |
| 07:28.44 | roh | xkr47 youve asked something earlier.. sorry.. i was busy kicking apache to spin faster |
| 07:28.46 | aloril | heard that its quite loud though if you want it to be ;-) |
| 07:29.12 | sannes | hehe, goodie :) |
| 07:29.26 | mashi99 | how much is the shipping to US ? |
| 07:29.29 | buz | so neos come from the us??? |
| 07:30.06 | aloril | mashi99: less than $20 I think, but you can check it yourself: just to step 1/3 of order ;-) |
| 07:30.35 | mashi99 | buz : do you have nick like buggz before ? |
| 07:30.35 | aloril | buz: seems they are all shipped in bundle to US and then shipped from FIC USA elsewhere |
| 07:30.40 | xkr47 | roh, I asked if you could be bothered to check my order.. my mailserver has greylist filtering and it seems the confirmation mail got lost due to that.. no resend attempts in 7 hours |
| 07:30.41 | *** join/#openmoko sadiq (n=sadiq@z42.219-121-95.ppp.wakwak.ne.jp) |
| 07:30.41 | drkludge | mashi99, +$26 for two day air |
| 07:30.47 | mashi99 | drk : ok |
| 07:31.14 | sadiq | Just a quick question... has anyone experimented with the tickless patch for the OpenMoko kernel? |
| 07:31.14 | aloril | sadiq: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:31.15 | xkr47 | roh (someone rumoured that you were able to check such a thing) |
| 07:31.19 | roh | xkr47 whats your email? |
| 07:31.19 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest14.crihan.fr) |
| 07:31.25 | xkr47 | roh, xkr47@outerspace.dyndns.org |
| 07:31.52 | buz | no i never had nick like buggz |
| 07:31.57 | sadiq | (as I notice we're using 2.6.20, when tickless only got merged in to the mainline in 2.6.21) |
| 07:32.02 | mashi99 | i wish openmoko work with OSX. that's make my life easier :P |
| 07:32.27 | xkr47 | roh, thanks :) |
| 07:32.30 | buz | sadiq: afaik, arm has been tickless for a while |
| 07:32.34 | mashi99 | buz : ok.. coz I used to hangout in #linux channel. someone from .ch have name like that. |
| 07:32.53 | aloril | sadiq: 2007-07-01 13:58:05 <CIA-17> openmoko: laforge * r2355 /trunk/oe/ (3 files in 3 dirs): update kernel to 2.6.21.5 |
| 07:33.27 | mashi99 | how easy to kill uboot ? |
| 07:33.58 | sadiq | buz: oh. Didn't realise that. Seems I was only following the x86 work. :-S |
| 07:33.59 | aloril | mashi99: I think shipping phone has some checks against flashing wrong version of u-boot |
| 07:34.07 | sadiq | aloril: nice. |
| 07:34.12 | mashi99 | ok |
| 07:34.17 | roh | xkr47 hm. i see your mail, but not the order.. is that the mail Âyou used in the orderform? |
| 07:34.25 | aloril | mashi99: however, if you flash wrong u-boot -> brick |
| 07:34.41 | xkr47 | yes.. what mail do you see ? |
| 07:34.42 | mashi99 | aloril : need jtag :P |
| 07:34.46 | xkr47 | (roh) |
| 07:34.57 | xkr47 | roh, (yes, that's the mail) |
| 07:35.14 | xkr47 | "Jonas Berlin" is the name |
| 07:35.55 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:36.26 | mashi99 | i read something about neo1973 few months ago. it said it is triband not quad before |
| 07:36.40 | xkr47 | roh, I still have the browser open if you want some more info from the forms I filled. |
| 07:36.52 | mjr | mashi99, mmh, article must've gotten it wrong |
| 07:36.54 | mjr | aloril, yeah |
| 07:37.08 | mashi99 | mjr : I read it in phonescoop |
| 07:38.59 | mashi99 | for the advance. it got jtag cable or special board ? |
| 07:40.03 | *** part/#openmoko drkludge (n=drkludge@ip68-231-40-97.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 07:40.38 | buz | special board |
| 07:40.38 | mashi99 | buz : no wonder $150 more |
| 07:41.31 | *** join/#openmoko clarity (n=clarity@adsl-66-127-222-66.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 07:41.33 | xkr47 | 1.185 if you trust the P1_Owners page :) |
| 07:41.38 | *** join/#openmoko miki (i=c026c50e@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-1a00dd106c802d31) |
| 07:41.41 | CM | xkr47: HEhe |
| 07:41.46 | clarity | is the phone fast enough to play videos? |
| 07:41.46 | aloril | clarity: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:42.07 | CM | clarity: Not really, in this Phase 1 version |
| 07:42.21 | ScaredyCat | not really, well not this version.. October should do better |
| 07:42.28 | aloril | mjr: you said "the Neo should really have an all-LCD cover so you could skin it in software" remember talks from back about that? ;-) |
| 07:43.20 | aloril | clarity: maybe if you encode them suitably and use 320x240 reslution |
| 07:43.22 | mashi99 | CM : what the status of neo1973 now ? can make/receive call ? |
| 07:44.20 | CM | mashi99: It can, supposedly. I know people have called on it, but I don't think it's usable for daily use as a phone yet |
| 07:44.53 | mashi99 | CM : ok.. coz i can just pop a prepaid and test it. |
| 07:45.13 | CM | That's what I'm planning to do |
| 07:45.52 | mashi99 | CM : actually i have spare line also.. but if it screwed up keep the GPRS on.. i will be in big trouble |
| 07:46.24 | clarity | have you guys had a rush of people since the slashdot post? |
| 07:46.29 | roh | xkr47 nope.. i cannot find your order |
| 07:46.42 | *** join/#openmoko Morglet (n=morgaine@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust961.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 07:46.57 | *** join/#openmoko gresh_ (n=christop@Mc6d1.m.pppool.de) |
| 07:47.00 | mashi99 | clarity : well.. at least who read /. is not those morons :) |
| 07:47.33 | mashi99 | well.. maybe i should dual boot my thinkpad |
| 07:47.45 | xkr47 | roh, doh!! what should I do ? |
| 07:47.47 | ScaredyCat | naaa - just get rid of windows |
| 07:47.50 | Morglet | No morons on Slashdot? You haven't been on there in recent years then ... :-) |
| 07:47.57 | mashi99 | i haven't use it for long time.. i am using osx for few months |
| 07:48.03 | CM | xkr47: Try to order 3 phones again? |
| 07:48.18 | xkr47 | roh, what mail did you say you saw? |
| 07:48.21 | mashi99 | scaredy : some stuff i use must use windows |
| 07:48.33 | mashi99 | scaredy : that's why I have parallels on my mac |
| 07:48.45 | xkr47 | CM, I don't want 6 of them by accident :/ |
| 07:48.52 | clarity | woa, it has a usb host in it? |
| 07:48.55 | CM | xkr47: Of course not. |
| 07:49.00 | clarity | so i can use it to charge my ipod in theory? |
| 07:49.00 | roh | xkr47 the one where you ask the same as you ask me atm |
| 07:49.01 | clarity | lol :-) |
| 07:49.03 | CM | clarity: Yes, but you need a powered hub |
| 07:49.07 | ScaredyCat | xkr47: yes, you do, you just don;t want to *pay* for 6 |
| 07:49.27 | xkr47 | lol |
| 07:49.30 | CM | clarity: Its a host, but unpowered because of battery constraints |
| 07:49.32 | mashi99 | lol |
| 07:49.37 | clarity | hrm, so is it mostly just for like removable drives? |
| 07:49.41 | clarity | like usb thumbs? |
| 07:49.48 | ScaredyCat | or dongles... |
| 07:49.51 | mashi99 | xkr47 : that's ok.. if you don't want 6. send those you don't want to me |
| 07:49.54 | roh | xkr47 order again and add that you only want one and the color into the comment field |
| 07:50.06 | xkr47 | I ordered three, so.. |
| 07:50.20 | clarity | xkr47: rock on |
| 07:50.30 | clarity | props on the 640x480 resolution |
| 07:50.31 | clarity | :-) |
| 07:50.33 | roh | xkr47 then write three... as long as there is no ticket noone will send you stuff or bill it ;) |
| 07:50.34 | CM | roh: What if you didn't request any special color? |
| 07:50.43 | ScaredyCat | although... I've not seen a battery powered hub yet |
| 07:50.51 | xkr47 | roh, wonder if other orders got lost as well if mine did too |
| 07:50.53 | mashi99 | 640x480 is what i want to see |
| 07:50.59 | *** join/#openmoko Oizo2nuit_ (n=Oizo2nui@LAubervilliers-153-52-18-180.w217-128.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 07:51.11 | roh | CM were still discussing that. but if you want to play shure just reply to the ticket you got with the color your want |
| 07:51.31 | CM | roh: Ok. I'm fine with anything, it's a dev toy anyway. ;) |
| 07:51.31 | ScaredyCat | that's what I did :) |
| 07:51.34 | clarity | isn't the screen pretty small compared to the iphone? |
| 07:51.47 | roh | xkr47 i can only imagine your mail is gone lost or the http ate it while beeing restarted due to load-fixes |
| 07:51.49 | ScaredyCat | dpi |
| 07:51.50 | mashi99 | clarity : iphone scren is huge |
| 07:51.52 | jeddy3 | shrug...first comment on engadget: iPhone rippof! :P |
| 07:52.03 | ScaredyCat | muppets |
| 07:52.12 | mashi99 | since neo1973 got 640x480 and dpi is higher also |
| 07:52.17 | clarity | hmm... i read about this phone about a year or more ago |
| 07:52.23 | clarity | the devel phone was too much for me though |
| 07:52.24 | jeddy3 | ripoff even* |
| 07:52.36 | clarity | so the iphone is a neo ripoff :-) |
| 07:52.44 | mashi99 | jeddy : i have one :P it's ok. |
| 07:52.51 | jeddy3 | doesn't really matter to those fanboys |
| 07:53.14 | clarity | i'll probably wait until the oct version |
| 07:53.22 | clarity | how are you guys doing about developers? |
| 07:53.26 | clarity | do you have enough help? |
| 07:54.06 | xkr47 | roh, well I got the page 3 with "Your Order request has been processed." when I did it.. |
| 07:54.10 | mashi99 | my another thought is. using neo1973 as GSM monitor |
| 07:54.18 | xkr47 | hope others orders have gone through 100% :) |
| 07:54.36 | mashi99 | like engining mode on some phone |
| 07:54.55 | mashi99 | engineer |
| 07:55.11 | Morglet | To compete against the iPhone, it needs to run OpenHype, not OpenMoko :-) |
| 07:55.51 | roh | xkr47 i just walked through the process and it works fine. email is there in seconds |
| 07:55.52 | clarity | i think the open source philosophy is what matters |
| 07:55.57 | mashi99 | morglet : lol.. well.. a lot of people don't understand about iphone |
| 07:56.02 | clarity | even if it's not 100% better right now |
| 07:56.08 | darwin81 | How long until Doom is ported to OpenMoko? |
| 07:56.17 | clarity | how are you guys doing about developers? |
| 07:56.24 | xkr47 | roh, used a different email now |
| 07:56.39 | mashi99 | Morglet : the main selling point of iphone is easy to use. ipod feature.. |
| 07:57.04 | mashi99 | morglet : you can't classified iphone as pda phone really |
| 07:57.19 | xkr47 | roh, is the order cancelled if the mail cannot be delivered? |
| 07:57.33 | xkr47 | anyway, got a ticket now, #2176 :P |
| 07:57.45 | ScaredyCat | who got ticket 1973? |
| 07:57.49 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 07:57.56 | roh | xkr47 i know about your issue, so if you get a second confirmation later just tell me an i'll fix it |
| 07:58.15 | xkr47 | roh, thank you very much! |
| 07:58.34 | Morglet | mashi99: two of my friends have iPhones, I've played with it, and it's extremely well presented. But it's closed, so it's not what I want. However, in Neo's mass-market phase on GTA-02, it *HAS* to compete with iPhone. If it doesn't, it won't sell. |
| 07:58.38 | clarity | i'm def waiting until oct for it i think :-) |
| 07:59.01 | clarity | gta-02 ? |
| 07:59.12 | CM | ScaredyCat: I wonder about that too :D |
| 07:59.15 | mashi99 | morglet : yeah. i have iphone also.. iphone is eye candy |
| 07:59.26 | Morglet | clarity: Next gen Neo |
| 08:00.10 | CM | mashi99: Good to have to compare gui's and functionality :) |
| 08:00.15 | mashi99 | morglet : a lot of review saying iphone this and that. but they don't understand. apple just rush the product out. |
| 08:00.22 | Morglet | mashi99: which means, we can't ignore the iPhone, if FIC intends to sell to mass market. |
| 08:00.36 | aloril | so 356 orders now in |
| 08:00.51 | aloril | (with unknown amount of units) |
| 08:01.16 | *** join/#openmoko siti (n=siti@clix-jaquesmartin-nz.cpe.clix.net.nz) |
| 08:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko _leo__ (n=user@r190-64-7-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 08:01.45 | CM | aloril: They're selling at quite a good rate :) |
| 08:01.53 | mashi99 | morglet : my gf's mom play with my iphone.. she can handle it well also.. apple know how to make thing easy for people |
| 08:01.53 | clarity | i think a lot of people have been waiting for an open source phone right now :-) |
| 08:02.03 | clarity | i hope you guys are making a lot of money off of this |
| 08:02.04 | clarity | :-) |
| 08:02.04 | Morglet | mashi99: yeah |
| 08:02.05 | aloril | if [[P1_Owners]] page ratio holds, then > 400 units sold |
| 08:02.18 | clarity | i think the iphone probably helped you guys out a bit |
| 08:02.32 | clarity | looking at iphones price tag and the neo... |
| 08:02.36 | clarity | neo looks cheap :-) |
| 08:02.42 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 08:03.01 | mjr | aloril, 2176 order number gotten on the other channel, so several hundred orders at least |
| 08:03.25 | mashi99 | morglet : a lot of review just care about the function and complain. they only think of experienced user |
| 08:03.34 | aloril | mjr: saw that same number in this channel too ;-) |
| 08:03.47 | mjr | so it seems |
| 08:04.01 | daxxar | Meh. :-( |
| 08:04.14 | daxxar | My server greylisted the openmoko.com confirmation 10 hours ago. |
| 08:04.18 | daxxar | Not been resent yet. :-( |
| 08:04.21 | aloril | 356 * (5+27)/27 is about 420 |
| 08:04.28 | aloril | 421 |
| 08:04.29 | mjr | Owners page is corrupted in that homyx bought "3x" and his group order buddies listed themselves separately as "1x" :] |
| 08:04.45 | aloril | ah |
| 08:05.13 | CM | Well, they have listed the same order number :) |
| 08:05.14 | Morglet | clarity: well in theory FIC has a larger profit margin on Neo/OM than other manufacturers, because they don't have huge software development costs to amortize. However, their h/w costs are quite a bit higher, since they're not manufacturing in half-million batches. |
| 08:05.14 | aloril | at most 11 orders / ticket, so less than 3916 ;-) |
| 08:05.14 | xkr47 | daxxar, maybe ask roh about your order then, he can check it (maybe) |
| 08:05.34 | xkr47 | daxxar, my order got lost, I had to place a new one |
| 08:05.46 | mashi99 | morglet : some people claim iphone only cost $220 ;0 |
| 08:05.47 | xkr47 | daxxar, I used a non-greylisted address the second time, it worked :P |
| 08:06.06 | clarity | so this isn't usable as a regular phone yet? |
| 08:06.19 | daxxar | I think the order is OK, because the mail.info-log lists it as tried delivered. |
| 08:06.20 | Morglet | mashi99: yeah, I saw that. I wonder if Sean would confirm that that is possible, at high-volume. |
| 08:06.37 | mashi99 | Morglet : well.. those people never think of R&D cost |
| 08:06.38 | ScaredyCat | clarity: this is a developer release... |
| 08:06.53 | clarity | ah okay |
| 08:07.01 | mashi99 | Morglet : just like how much money you can build a car |
| 08:07.05 | Morglet | mashi99: the $220 was Bill of Materials cost, exclusive of dev cost. |
| 08:07.16 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:07.32 | mashi99 | Morglet : R&D is where money goes |
| 08:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 08:08.50 | mashi99 | Morglet : ok.. this is what I can say.. iphone = easy to use. palm = stable. winmobile = more toys |
| 08:09.43 | clarity | Remember, "If you can't open it, you don't own it". We're giving you a Torx T6 screwdriver and a guitar pick to bust open your Neo and get at the PCB. Call us crazy, but openess for us goes far deeper than software. <-- i love you guys |
| 08:09.57 | Morglet | mashi99: yep. But in its mass-market phase, Neo still has to sell to those other people, who want ease of use and eye candy. It can't be ignored, just because techies don't care for it. |
| 08:09.59 | mashi99 | if i have neo1973. i would use it as a GSM monitor :P |
| 08:10.25 | mashi99 | morglet : right. i want phase 2 neo :) |
| 08:10.27 | aloril | clarity: calling/receiving call should work |
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| 08:11.17 | mil__ | aloril: sms? |
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| 08:11.38 | *** part/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 08:11.41 | aloril | mil__: don't think current hardware has support for that, but I suspect it will appear soon once phones are in wild |
| 08:11.49 | *** join/#openmoko __brandon__ (n=cafebabe@ip70-176-192-121.ph.ph.cox.net) |
| 08:11.51 | aloril | s/hardware/firmware/ |
| 08:12.02 | clarity | hmm, i think what i'll do is think about it for a week and perhaps buy it if I can figure out how to put aside enough money :-) |
| 08:12.11 | clarity | i wanna help you ugys out even if i'm just a patch monkey |
| 08:12.12 | clarity | :-) |
| 08:12.20 | __brandon__ | can i order through openmoko.com yet? i'm getting a blank page on the order.cgi |
| 08:12.34 | mashi99 | lol.. i still remember when I am running linux in 1990/91. i call asus or some motherboard manufacture support about CPU and such. they said they don't support hobbies OS |
| 08:12.39 | aloril | __brandon__: upper case 2 letter code if you order from USA |
| 08:13.31 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@219-89-44-229.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
| 08:13.41 | __brandon__ | was using lowercase, didn't know it was that sensentive |
| 08:13.52 | __brandon__ | ty |
| 08:13.55 | *** join/#openmoko cybaea (n=cybaea@83.104.193.12) |
| 08:13.57 | *** part/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:14.24 | hads | Yeah the error checking isn't particually fancy at present. |
| 08:14.28 | mashi99 | anyway.. nice to talk to you guys.. i will make up my mind tomorrow if i want to get neo1973. it is 4:14am here.. take care everyone |
| 08:14.42 | darwin81 | What's a good way to get rid of those Windows OEM stickers that come on the side of cases? |
| 08:14.47 | aloril | roh: I guess you know about above bug? (needing uppercase 2 letter code for USA orders) (just verifying) |
| 08:14.53 | clarity | mashi: i feel the same :-) |
| 08:14.59 | clarity | good night mashi |
| 08:15.08 | Morglet | darwin81: napalm |
| 08:15.12 | aloril | __brandon__: got order trough now? |
| 08:15.18 | mashi99 | if it is GTA02. i will buy it right the way :P |
| 08:15.21 | kristian-m | got #2179 |
| 08:15.31 | __brandon__ | placing order now. trying to decide how much i want to spend on shipping :) |
| 08:15.32 | roh | aloril could be. but the perl script handling that is highly fragile and i do not want to touch it atm |
| 08:15.38 | mashi99 | for hardware wise.. GTA02 is good |
| 08:15.44 | Psi_ | __brandon__, you mean you have a choice? |
| 08:15.59 | __brandon__ | 7 choices |
| 08:16.15 | cybaea | __brandon__: Wow. We only get 3 in Europe |
| 08:16.16 | aloril | roh: maybe add mention to web page that it needs to be uppercase 2 letter code for USA orders? |
| 08:16.18 | aloril | (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: Congratulation OpenMoko.com http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/congratulation-openmokocom.html |
| 08:16.20 | kristian-m | how many can be delivered? |
| 08:16.26 | cybaea | (And they all cost pretty much the same :-D ) |
| 08:16.28 | Psi_ | count yourself lucky, quite alot of use only get 1-3 and they are all the same $50-$100 US :( |
| 08:16.42 | Psi_ | some more than $100US |
| 08:16.54 | __brandon__ | if they leave this on my doorstep while i'm at work i'm going to be pissed |
| 08:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@d142.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 08:17.13 | aloril | kristian-m: so 359 order is latest count now (* average number of orders) |
| 08:17.17 | clarity | i think i need to get back to homework |
| 08:17.27 | clarity | good luck with everything guys :-) |
| 08:17.51 | cybaea | sannes: Ouch! |
| 08:17.54 | aloril | __brandon__: it won't ship today |
| 08:17.56 | kristian-m | aloril so ids != order count? |
| 08:17.57 | xkr47 | roh, the moko online store link in the mail I got after the order points to direct.openmoko.org but it should be .com |
| 08:17.57 | aloril | counter |
| 08:17.57 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, 3 days 03:42:03 (10.154±3.0 days) (1722;246) |
| 08:17.59 | clarity | where do you guys live? |
| 08:18.10 | __brandon__ | i'm going for the 2ND_DAY_AIR mail for 26.67 |
| 08:18.14 | Psi_ | sannes, that makes me feel a little better |
| 08:18.16 | aloril | kristian-m: lowest reported order id is #1821 |
| 08:18.36 | Morglet | $127 shipping???? OMG |
| 08:18.41 | clarity | hrm... anyone shipping to cali? |
| 08:18.43 | Psi_ | yeah, its insane :( |
| 08:18.45 | CM | aloril: Still think it's weird if they started on that number :) |
| 08:18.54 | cybaea | $77.46 shipping |
| 08:18.55 | __brandon__ | for $127 god himself bettter bless my phone and hand deliver it :) |
| 08:19.01 | Psi_ | they should have started at 1973 |
| 08:19.06 | cybaea | (to the UK) |
| 08:19.07 | kristian-m | __brandon__ why don't you order to the office? |
| 08:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77_ (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 08:19.12 | sannes | __brandon__: that is what I'm expecting aswell :P |
| 08:19.23 | CM | Psi_: Well, someone did get a 1973 order now |
| 08:19.25 | aloril | CM: I think its internal bug tracker number, yeah maybe -7 is earliest? |
| 08:19.27 | __brandon__ | kristian-m: that's a good idea :) |
| 08:19.33 | Psi_ | CM, hehe cool |
| 08:19.36 | cybaea | (Running MokoMakeFile now....) |
| 08:19.47 | jeddy3 | CM, do you expect to pay tax on that? |
| 08:20.34 | aloril | __brandon__: latest guess is that it clears customs at 2007-07-16 |
| 08:20.35 | CM | jeddy3: I don't know. Hope not.. I haven't had to before with stuff ordered from abroad |
| 08:20.48 | Stephmw | hi guys |
| 08:21.10 | jeddy3 | CM, hopefully not |
| 08:21.14 | __brandon__ | they will be in fremont right? |
| 08:21.32 | CM | cybaea: Well, I guess I live in the country with the highest taxes of all |
| 08:21.35 | __brandon__ | i'm going to be in california next week anyhow, could i go pick it up in person? |
| 08:21.43 | clarity | fremont? |
| 08:21.44 | cybaea | CM: Where? |
| 08:21.50 | CM | Sweden |
| 08:22.01 | clarity | whos going to be in fremont? |
| 08:22.03 | __brandon__ | i read somewhere that it was being delevered to fremont CA and would be shipped |
| 08:22.06 | Morglet | WTF. I just got my first spam fax on my ex-directory fax number. I'm pissed off. |
| 08:22.09 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=daniel@pd95b5e66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:22.18 | cybaea | CM: I left Denmark because of the taxes. |
| 08:22.23 | CM | We have 25% vad, and I pay between 33 and 56% of my wage in tax (Higher the higher your pay is) |
| 08:22.25 | kristian-m | __brandon__ they don't ship from taiwan? |
| 08:22.29 | cybaea | CM: Scandinavians of the World, Unite! |
| 08:22.31 | CM | s/vad/VAT/ |
| 08:22.38 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 08:22.39 | CM | Hehe |
| 08:22.42 | bedboi | ok, time has come. |
| 08:22.51 | __brandon__ | well they do, but i remember reading that a bunch were being delevered to fremont, i'll try & find where i read that |
| 08:22.57 | bedboi | anyone knows the shipping time? |
| 08:22.58 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 08:23.14 | bedboi | any FIC-guy here? |
| 08:23.40 | __brandon__ | from the newsletter |
| 08:23.41 | __brandon__ | Neos are waiting in customs just outside our factory in SuZhou. Early |
| 08:23.41 | __brandon__ | this week, they will start their journey to FIC America in Fremont, |
| 08:23.41 | __brandon__ | California. |
| 08:24.14 | clarity | oh crap fremont is by me |
| 08:24.25 | __brandon__ | so, does anyone know where, or if I could just drop by while i'm there and pick one up? |
| 08:24.25 | clarity | hmm... i think i can get there from the subway |
| 08:24.35 | __brandon__ | you mean bart ;) |
| 08:24.38 | Morglet | I sure hope a European distribution point is set up soon. Direct air freight from Taiwan is just lunacy. Our money badly spent. |
| 08:24.50 | Psi_ | CM, is that for us to add too? |
| 08:25.00 | clarity | __bradon__: yeah i wasn't sure if people would know what i'm talking about if i said bart :-) |
| 08:25.31 | __brandon__ | clarity: kinda figured as much. but i had pressed enter |
| 08:26.50 | __brandon__ | so, anyone know where or if direct pickup is possible? |
| 08:26.56 | __brandon__ | i found 2 addresses via google |
| 08:27.21 | aloril | Morglet: actually I suspect its from "FIC America" for Europe too .. |
| 08:27.50 | aloril | Morglet: they are going directly from China to USA, not trough Taiwan (that is how I read above mail) |
| 08:27.51 | bedboi | 75$ for shipping here in italy... |
| 08:28.19 | bedboi | i will be in the US next month, so i'm thinking about getting it there. |
| 08:28.20 | roh | xkr47 ive fixed the link in the mail i think |
| 08:29.03 | Morglet | aloril: OK, US better than far east at least. Although west-coast US is still almost the other side of the world. |
| 08:30.18 | Morglet | Aye, since China doesn't want Taiwan to exist :-) |
| 08:30.29 | aloril | though it would have been nice to have "China -> USA and EU" -> etc.. |
| 08:31.02 | aloril | but.. having limited numbers and .. no doubt shipping from EU will happen sooner or later |
| 08:31.09 | roh | Morglet distributing will be much improved before we sell gta02 |
| 08:31.35 | cybaea | Does anybody know the weight of the Neo 1973? |
| 08:31.42 | bedboi | Btw, if i known that the shipping time is less than 3 weeks, i would buy one from here (italy) |
| 08:31.52 | __brandon__ | well knowing that the clearing of customs won't happen for another week, i'll try & get it while i'm in california. thx the the info aloril |
| 08:31.55 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-104-134.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:32.11 | cybaea | bedboi: I don't think there are _any_ official shipping estimates yet... |
| 08:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 08:32.37 | ScaredyCat | shipping isn't supposed to start until at least the 16th afaik... |
| 08:32.38 | bedboi | cybaea: ok, so I'll definitely place an order when in New Mexico |
| 08:32.46 | bedboi | i'll be there for two months. |
| 08:32.49 | aloril | mail about custrom clearance at 2007-07-16 or later: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006633.html |
| 08:32.50 | ScaredyCat | from a messsage from mickey_away |
| 08:32.52 | cybaea | Plus God only knows how long the customs take |
| 08:33.00 | aloril | (this is repeat link for those who have not seen it yet) |
| 08:33.54 | cybaea | I wonder what the tax is on importing mobile phones here. Presumably "just" the VAT? |
| 08:34.16 | Morglet | Noddy comparison against (sigh) the iPhone .... http://aptustech.com/?q=node/9 |
| 08:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko Tronic (i=tronic@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe30fa00-139.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:35.32 | cybaea | Morglet++ |
| 08:36.02 | *** topic/#openmoko by aloril -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300, from www.openmoko.com; Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later |
| 08:36.13 | cybaea | "geek port" !? :-D |
| 08:38.20 | bedboi | FLASH: 4GB? |
| 08:38.20 | __brandon__ | ya, reading that, didn't know that the neo had that much better rez than theh iphone, that's awesome |
| 08:38.29 | bedboi | is it true? |
| 08:38.30 | daMaestro | aloril, you should fix my oops |
| 08:38.30 | cybaea | Is build/conf/local.conf documented anywhere? |
| 08:38.34 | bedboi | or is it an hd? |
| 08:38.39 | daMaestro | aloril, www.openmoko.com; sucks |
| 08:38.47 | clarity | the screen looks pretty small though brandon |
| 08:38.53 | Psi_ | i thought the iphone had GPS, but look like it doesn't |
| 08:38.55 | clarity | amazing res though |
| 08:38.59 | __brandon__ | 320x480 vs 640x480 ... no contest |
| 08:39.04 | daMaestro | aloril, s/www.openmoko.com;/www.openmoko.com -/ |
| 08:39.26 | *** topic/#openmoko by aloril -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later |
| 08:39.26 | clarity | but with the slow processor and whatnot it's going to be hard to take advantage of that screen |
| 08:39.31 | daMaestro | yessss... |
| 08:39.38 | daMaestro | now i can open that link from xchat |
| 08:40.05 | pa-ching | Oh well, video accelerators coming this Fall :)? |
| 08:40.06 | aloril | bedboi: microSD 2GB has been tested, maybe 4GB works too |
| 08:40.11 | daMaestro | an ... gah, it's 3am.. time for zZZZZ |
| 08:40.18 | __brandon__ | interesting point. but the 02 release should make that better |
| 08:40.21 | bedboi | aloril: i'm talking about iPHone |
| 08:40.32 | Morglet | The crucial difference will come later though: Number of apps: iPhone = 15, Neo/OM = 5,000 |
| 08:40.46 | nohar | how does it stand wrt video playback ? |
| 08:40.57 | *** join/#openmoko gresh__ (n=christop@M547a.m.pppool.de) |
| 08:40.59 | bedboi | what about battery life comparison? |
| 08:41.13 | cybaea | But people will say that the quality matters and Apple devotees will argue that there is not contest on that score ;-) |
| 08:41.24 | bedboi | IMHO it's one of the most important features |
| 08:41.24 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 08:41.32 | clarity | yeah it is |
| 08:41.38 | aloril | bedboi: yeah or 8GB and that's it no cards |
| 08:41.40 | clarity | well if you're blasting everything it's 4 hours |
| 08:41.56 | clarity | but depends on how you use it |
| 08:42.06 | aloril | Morglet: umm.. OM already has that many apps, just that they are not optimized for this screen size / touch screen input ;-) |
| 08:42.33 | Morglet | Will kernel 2.6.22+ DynTicks allow the battery drain to be reduced even further? |
| 08:42.39 | clarity | so that sounds like easy shit i can do :-) |
| 08:42.49 | clarity | is it pretty easy to help develop on |
| 08:42.51 | bedboi | aloril: in a cellular phone the application start-up time is very important |
| 08:42.59 | clarity | i just want to do bug testing/patching |
| 08:43.07 | aloril | bedboi: agree |
| 08:43.28 | aloril | pa-ching: gestures? |
| 08:43.30 | bedboi | aloril: i'm not that into openmoko internals (pity), but i guess that the most important applications are in memory |
| 08:43.48 | pa-ching | aloril: Yeah, for movement I suppose :) |
| 08:43.49 | cybaea | What is tthe deal on not being able to use the Neo when it is connected to the USB (because it draws more current than the 100 mA standard USB)? Must trash the battery life....... |
| 08:44.01 | cybaea | pa-ching++ |
| 08:44.04 | cybaea | nethack++ |
| 08:44.41 | pa-ching | (Don't hold your breath, I'll probably get the phone in the fall ;) |
| 08:44.58 | jeddy3 | Morglet, dyntick are highly archtecture-specific and IIRC build for x86 in latest kernel |
| 08:44.59 | *** join/#openmoko BlackFog (n=office@lehrer.lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 08:45.00 | aloril | pa-ching: I mean different gesture for each different command |
| 08:45.15 | pa-ching | aloril: Too many commands D: |
| 08:45.17 | aloril | or just get bluetooth keyboard ;-) |
| 08:45.24 | BlackFog | hi |
| 08:45.29 | Morglet | The USB is unpowered, but what about in the other direction? Can you charge it through the USB? |
| 08:45.38 | Morglet | jeddy3: kk |
| 08:45.45 | aloril | Morglet: that is basically only way to charge Neo1973 |
| 08:45.51 | cybaea | Morglet: I think you can _only_ charge it through the USB |
| 08:45.58 | *** join/#openmoko Nalim (n=Miranda@195.39.60.86) |
| 08:46.01 | Morglet | Cool |
| 08:46.21 | schurig | extract the battery and charge the battery directly with some Nokia charger |
| 08:46.23 | aloril | other way is to take battery out and charge it in some no name charger that charges certain Nokia batteries |
| 08:46.41 | bedboi | yep, good point |
| 08:47.18 | jeddy3 | Morglet, BUT Nokia has made some nice powersaving work with n800 (linux-based, arm) i think, maybe we could benefit from that |
| 08:48.03 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 08:50.22 | clarity | man... i don't think i can afford it :-( I'll have to see if i can get some food stamps. I'm on a pretty tight budget right now |
| 08:50.26 | clarity | <- college student |
| 08:50.46 | ewanm89_laptop | clarity: I know how it feels. |
| 08:51.53 | ewanm89_laptop | cybaea: Leave it running a day or 2. |
| 08:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 08:53.42 | CM | Psi_: Sure, feel free to add yourself :) |
| 08:54.29 | CM | cybaea: A complete build took about 7h on my amd64 3000+ with 1gb ram |
| 08:54.38 | cybaea | Eeeeek |
| 08:55.39 | cybaea | And it downloads a gazillion files.... |
| 08:56.09 | Stephmw | cybaea: be sure to have ccache installed too :) |
| 08:56.21 | cybaea | What is ccache? |
| 08:56.25 | Stephmw | and if you can set up some machines with distcc, you'll be happier still |
| 08:56.39 | CM | cybaea: Did you follow the wiki and add INHERIT += "rm_work" to the config file? |
| 08:56.48 | cybaea | I am just following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile (sans the parallel instructions - missed those) |
| 08:56.49 | ScaredyCat | I wondered avbout that Stephmw... |
| 08:56.57 | CM | Otherwise it takes over 7gb disk to build |
| 08:57.01 | clarity | cybaea: it's like a temp holding place for stuff |
| 08:57.18 | cybaea | Stephmw: not the INHERIT - I have 1 TB free disk |
| 08:57.29 | clarity | cybaea: your browser has web site cache so you don't have to download stuff as often |
| 08:57.44 | clarity | holy shit... |
| 08:57.47 | Stephmw | cybaea: http://ccache.samba.org/ - pre-processing cache, speeds up some compilation ops |
| 08:57.55 | clarity | 7gb to build for a 64meg device? |
| 08:58.07 | clarity | lool :-) |
| 08:58.10 | clarity | lol* |
| 08:58.12 | Stephmw | clarity: that's not so surprising |
| 08:58.13 | cybaea | yeah, I have it |
| 08:58.19 | cybaea | Was part of the yum install command |
| 08:58.22 | clarity | really? |
| 08:58.28 | Stephmw | clarity: at work I have about the same for a 16MB device :) |
| 08:58.38 | clarity | where do you work? |
| 08:58.41 | cybaea | Aborting build to do the parallel stuff |
| 08:58.44 | CM | clarity: It keeps all temporary files and all sources unpacked and so on |
| 08:58.50 | Stephmw | clarity: that would be telling :D |
| 08:59.08 | ewanm89_laptop | And I'm stuck with not being able to install monotone. |
| 08:59.29 | daxxar | Anyone know the difference between WORLDWIDE_EXPEDITED and SAVER for shipping? |
| 08:59.53 | clarity | has there been a huge surge since slashdot/ |
| 08:59.57 | clarity | in this chan? |
| 09:00.31 | aloril | probably most nicks at this time of day |
| 09:00.42 | ewanm89_laptop | clarity: Slight surge, usually we don't talk much, but today is a big day. |
| 09:01.00 | clarity | wanm89: are you a developer? |
| 09:01.07 | clarity | ewanm89* |
| 09:01.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Milo/en]] [[User:Milo]] [[SH1]] [[Main_Page/bg]] [[Main_Page]] [[P1_Owners]] [[FIC]] [[User:Amire80]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[FAQ]] |
| 09:01.59 | ScaredyCat | cybaea: you now need to wait an ageand a half.... |
| 09:02.05 | ScaredyCat | approx 7 hours |
| 09:02.28 | cybaea | yeah, I kind of figured that. Presumably depends on your network speed as well.... |
| 09:02.39 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: any idea how much of a speedup ccache/distcc would bring? |
| 09:02.48 | Stephmw | (quantitatively) |
| 09:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko SBKch (n=SBKch@088156224081.sta.vectranet.pl) |
| 09:03.11 | ScaredyCat | no idea.. but I would like to try at some point.... |
| 09:03.29 | ScaredyCat | just looking at ccache first |
| 09:03.30 | cybaea | Do I need to do anything to use ccache? |
| 09:03.37 | ScaredyCat | then will look at distcc... |
| 09:03.50 | ScaredyCat | just dl it copmile and install.. |
| 09:03.58 | ewanm89_laptop | monotone ./configure: checking boost version 1.33.0 or newer... yes |
| 09:03.58 | ewanm89_laptop | checking for the boost_filesystem library... no |
| 09:04.07 | Psi_ | is there a page that list exactly what software is/is not working on the neo at present? |
| 09:04.11 | ScaredyCat | then you can use either symlinks or CC=ccache gcc |
| 09:04.26 | Stephmw | ewanm89_laptop: boost is a beast, it may not have been compiled with everything you need on your distro |
| 09:05.02 | ewanm89_laptop | Stephmw: I grabbed the tarball, and compiled it from there. |
| 09:05.09 | cybaea | SHould I worry about messages like "NOTE: preferred version 2.4 of glibc not available" ? |
| 09:05.20 | ewanm89_laptop | And I'm using 64bit gentoo. |
| 09:06.15 | bedboi | is the weight of neo written somewhere? |
| 09:06.34 | Stephmw | ewanm89_laptop: 64bit && gentoo? |
| 09:06.43 | cybaea | I was wondering about the weight too. Couldn't find it |
| 09:06.49 | SpeedEvil | yes - [[Neo1973]] bedboi |
| 09:06.51 | Stephmw | ewanm89_laptop: I tried that, it felt too painful |
| 09:06.54 | bedboi | ok |
| 09:06.55 | bedboi | thanks |
| 09:08.28 | SpeedEvil | Odd |
| 09:08.30 | SpeedEvil | it's not there |
| 09:08.37 | cybaea | No weight anywhere? |
| 09:08.38 | SpeedEvil | 184g |
| 09:09.24 | cybaea | Where did you find that? |
| 09:09.34 | ewanm89_laptop | Stephmw: Any ideas on getting it to work without changing distro? |
| 09:09.40 | bedboi | in the hardware stuff |
| 09:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko ambros (n=ambros@AC9EF67A.ipt.aol.com) |
| 09:10.02 | cybaea | I see it here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 09:10.02 | SpeedEvil | Also FAQ |
| 09:10.06 | SpeedEvil | 'how heavy is it' |
| 09:10.40 | Stephmw | ewanm89_laptop: no idea tbh. I'd be tempted to set up a 32bit chroot (docs on gentoo wiki) and working from there |
| 09:10.48 | CM | cybaea: I also get that glibc warning since I have a newer version, but it's not a problem. :) |
| 09:11.00 | cybaea | Thanks, CM |
| 09:11.06 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: I'm on 64 bit gentoo too |
| 09:11.35 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: I had some trouble in the beginning to get it working under qemu. Had to install gcc-3 |
| 09:12.10 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: But I'm having problem with Boost and monotone. |
| 09:12.31 | aloril | SpeedEvil: FIC/OpenMoko is much more behind Neo1973/OpenMoko than Sharp with Zaurus (at least it sounds that way) |
| 09:13.33 | ScaredyCat | real 0m1.476s |
| 09:13.33 | ScaredyCat | user 0m0.428s |
| 09:13.33 | ScaredyCat | sys 0m0.084 |
| 09:13.36 | *** join/#openmoko drear|laptop (n=drear@nblzone-208-36.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 09:13.47 | ScaredyCat | time for cccache gcc on cccache |
| 09:14.01 | ScaredyCat | real 0m2.939s |
| 09:14.01 | ScaredyCat | user 0m1.856s |
| 09:14.01 | ScaredyCat | sys 0m0.136 |
| 09:14.12 | ScaredyCat | time for gcc of ccache |
| 09:14.14 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: I'm on ~amd64. Have dev-embedded/bitbake-1.8.4 dev-libs/boost-1.34.0 dev-util/monotone-0.35 emerged |
| 09:14.14 | hrw | hi |
| 09:14.48 | hrw | CM: bitbake 1.8.6 suggested |
| 09:14.48 | CM | ewanm89_laptop: After that, the makefile worked fine |
| 09:14.54 | ewanm89_laptop | CM: the monotone ./configure is giving me an error about boost. |
| 09:15.14 | CM | hrw: Ok, I'll see if I can update the ebuild or if there is one already |
| 09:15.40 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 09:16.02 | *** join/#openmoko neocoretech (n=neocoret@gw.transporeon-hq.com) |
| 09:16.17 | aloril | 28 names on [[P1_Owners]], but at least 359 orders in |
| 09:17.08 | Psi_ | heh Sorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties. |
| 09:18.12 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:18.51 | cybaea | Which site? |
| 09:19.01 | hrw | I wonder do I have to add myself to P1_Owners ;D |
| 09:19.50 | cybaea | What's with the '75 dpi' reported by xdpyinfo? |
| 09:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.153.4.137) |
| 09:20.03 | cybaea | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001353.html |
| 09:22.01 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-52.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:22.22 | CM | Psi_: :D |
| 09:22.33 | ynezz | anybody received order confirmation yet? |
| 09:22.46 | CM | Nothing since that automated reply |
| 09:22.56 | Psi_ | same |
| 09:22.56 | tuukkah | cybaea, don't trust X on 75 dpi, that's an uninformed default value |
| 09:23.16 | xkr47 | roh, thanks :) |
| 09:23.37 | cybaea | Yeah, I realize it is more, but lots of apps use that value. Sigh. I guess that is why we get the *developers" version ;-) |
| 09:24.18 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B8DC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:24.20 | aloril | cybaea: well, I think that is minor issue compared to other stuff (like segfaults in some apps) |
| 09:24.36 | andylockran | anyone find out who got order 1973? |
| 09:25.34 | andylockran | MYSQL just died on the wiki? |
| 09:25.41 | CM | hrw: 1.8.6 works fine, I added a bug to gentoo to update it. Thanks |
| 09:25.59 | Psi_ | andylockran, its just overloaded |
| 09:26.13 | Psi_ | i got that, but after a few refreshes it came up |
| 09:26.31 | SpeedEvil | Wohoo! I has a package! |
| 09:26.52 | SpeedEvil | Alas, it's just accelerometers and assorted other stuff to go in a Neo. |
| 09:27.21 | Psi_ | from who? digikey? |
| 09:27.32 | SpeedEvil | No, freescale |
| 09:27.38 | roh | andylockran works here... just a bit slow, but i feel good it survives at all |
| 09:27.46 | SpeedEvil | with the 'buy onlune' thing |
| 09:27.51 | aloril | oh, 1820 is earliest known number (one less than at P1_Owners page) |
| 09:30.55 | *** part/#openmoko lindi- (n=lindi@kulho150.adsl.netsonic.fi) |
| 09:31.38 | *** join/#openmoko rgl (n=Rui@84.90.10.107) |
| 09:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 09:33.02 | andylockran | so is everyone waiting for a confirmation email then? |
| 09:33.11 | Psi_ | yep |
| 09:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 09:33.57 | SpeedEvil | So that's what - over 200 orders, in 10 hours |
| 09:34.05 | hrw | hej mmazur |
| 09:34.07 | aloril | andylockran: that should happen quite fast |
| 09:34.09 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 09:34.35 | aloril | andylockran: it might be that you didn't get order trough if you are still waiting |
| 09:34.50 | SpeedEvil | aloril: the 'we received your form' is not a confirmation mail. |
| 09:34.54 | mmazur | hrw, me buy. mine mine mine :) |
| 09:35.04 | SpeedEvil | They still need to check the CC number validates |
| 09:35.06 | mmazur | What is the number of produced phones? |
| 09:35.13 | SpeedEvil | Around a thousand |
| 09:35.19 | aloril | hour ago it was 360 ticket numbers (==orders?) |
| 09:35.25 | mmazur | Ok crap. |
| 09:35.28 | mmazur | Gotta hurry then. |
| 09:35.31 | SpeedEvil | So it's likely a third to a half have sold. |
| 09:35.37 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:35.40 | *** part/#openmoko mil__ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 09:35.49 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, true, I though he was talking about that mail |
| 09:35.51 | mmazur | aloril, when did taking orders start? |
| 09:36.15 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: last night - 1AM or so BST |
| 09:36.21 | SpeedEvil | 10 hours ago? |
| 09:36.39 | mmazur | Ok, so I'm safe to place my order in an hour or two, at the present rate. |
| 09:37.03 | ewanm89_laptop | 1AM == 9.5 hours ago. |
| 09:37.07 | Psi_ | i doubt we will hit 1000 for atleast a day or two |
| 09:37.19 | SpeedEvil | The rate early on was 1/minute |
| 09:37.24 | aloril | 2007-07-08 22:35:17 <Jason1> GOT MINE ORDERED!!!!!!! |
| 09:37.47 | aloril | for first order, now here is 12:37 (about 14h later) |
| 09:38.08 | hrw | mmazur: I have two on desk |
| 09:38.12 | SpeedEvil | It seems to have dropped to around 15/hour now. |
| 09:39.02 | SpeedEvil | (some may be ordering 11, which will screw the numbers. I don't know if you can order 11 of each) |
| 09:39.21 | SpeedEvil | (11 is the max) |
| 09:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko hardskinone (n=hardskin@host16-142.pool8252.interbusiness.it) |
| 09:40.50 | aloril | SpeedEvil: nope, it counts them together |
| 09:42.37 | SpeedEvil | roh: any word of a new run being contemplated? |
| 09:42.46 | *** join/#openmoko jean (n=jean@85-18-201-163.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 09:42.49 | xkr47 | is somebody collecting coverage links ?-) |
| 09:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@e008.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 09:44.06 | tuukkah | isn't it a bit bad for getting news stories that the press release isn't there? |
| 09:44.17 | rgl | at http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-04-software.html there is a block diagram that separates the finger from stylus applications, does that mean I can't use my fingers in the stylus applications, like the contacts? |
| 09:44.33 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 09:44.48 | SpeedEvil | It means that some applications will not meaningfully be usable in some applications. |
| 09:44.53 | SpeedEvil | At least for all applications. |
| 09:44.55 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 09:45.05 | SpeedEvil | for all actions in that application. |
| 09:45.19 | Stephmw | tuukkah: hopefully it'll follow later |
| 09:45.25 | hads | You also get shocks if you try to use your finger in a stylus application :) |
| 09:45.34 | mmazur | Yup. |
| 09:45.36 | mmazur | That'll teach'em. |
| 09:45.43 | SpeedEvil | Expect more apps to be fingerable as time goes on. |
| 09:46.19 | rgl | I see. /me likes to use is fingers! |
| 09:48.38 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 09:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 09:48.59 | mdt | hi everybody! |
| 09:50.22 | miki | have we got confirmation that there's no ac charger in the delivery? |
| 09:51.15 | CM | miki: Didn't Seans mail last week say that a charger was included? |
| 09:52.43 | emdete | can't the phone be charged via usb? |
| 09:52.43 | aloril | emdete: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 09:53.26 | aloril | it is charged via USB |
| 09:54.04 | Morglet | Well remember that USA hasn't got to work yet, so the real Slashdot effect is still to be felt. |
| 09:54.39 | Psi_ | hehe forgot about that |
| 09:55.20 | Morglet | And west coast USA still not for another 6h. |
| 09:57.39 | Morglet | If FIC sales/marketting are any good, they'll have negociated with Fender or Gibson to send out branded guitar picks for opening the case ... brand placement. :-))) |
| 09:58.17 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:59.01 | cybaea | Oh, build failed :( |
| 09:59.06 | tuukkah | Morglet, a bunch of openmoko picks that you can share with your guitar-playing friends, even |
| 09:59.22 | Psi_ | heh |
| 09:59.29 | cybaea | Anybody seen: tic: symbol lookup error: tic: undefined symbol: _nc_check_termtype |
| 10:02.38 | hardskinone | hi, I'm trying using OpenMokoMakefile but I get this message: (Nopaste) http://rafb.net/p/S0CioG81.html |
| 10:03.45 | hardskinone | Do the error reffers to a missing "fstats" package in my distro (Ubuntu 7.04)? |
| 10:04.38 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.116.3) |
| 10:04.55 | Morglet | tuukkah: ah yes, emphasis on sharing, pick the right pick, pick the right music, share the music :-) |
| 10:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko ibnjam (n=ibnjam@203.92.154.36) |
| 10:05.35 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:05.35 | Morglet | tuukkah: this is why one needs marketting people --- total lack of logic. As techies, we can't do marketting, we're too logical :-))) |
| 10:08.04 | ewanm89_laptop | boost+monotone still not playing: http://pastebin.ca/610203 ?? |
| 10:08.06 | miki | CM: yes, the announcement said ac adapter was included but it isn't on the package coentents list at .com |
| 10:11.03 | miki | hardskinone: maybe, or it is missing a bitbake/oe package. Maybe a make update will help you? I've done a Feisty build without any problems (just takes loooong) |
| 10:13.26 | hardskinone | miki, thx. I'll try a make update, if fails i'll check for missing packages. |
| 10:14.04 | cybaea | Has anybody compiled on Fedora 7 x86_64? |
| 10:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gw.aurisp.de) |
| 10:15.32 | daxxar | omg, 7GB for MokoMakefile? o.0 |
| 10:16.00 | cybaea | daxxar: Disk is cheap. ;-) And there is an option to reduce the space it uses. |
| 10:16.19 | cybaea | (apparently. I can't compile) |
| 10:16.20 | hardskinone | daxxar, check the "Tips" section on wiki :) |
| 10:16.21 | SpeedEvil | daxxar: consider it's got source trees for X, ... |
| 10:16.39 | daxxar | SpeedEvil: Ah. :-) |
| 10:16.45 | daxxar | But is that needed for Xephyr/x86? |
| 10:17.02 | SpeedEvil | Possibly not. |
| 10:17.19 | SpeedEvil | If you just wanted to build software that wasn't present on the host. |
| 10:17.21 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 10:17.28 | SpeedEvil | But that's a whole new level of complexity |
| 10:17.34 | daxxar | Hehe, okay |
| 10:17.35 | daxxar | I'll skip it :-P |
| 10:18.21 | daxxar | cybaea: 'tis for my laptop, where it's more of a hassle with diskspace. ;-) |
| 10:18.30 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@a178.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 10:18.36 | daxxar | And I've got a dualboot, plus a vendor-specific recovery-partition, so they're hogging their share. |
| 10:18.46 | SpeedEvil | Quick straw-poll: Hardware. Who would be interested in a 3-axis accellerometer add-on for their P1 phone. Plug into the debug port. Cost maybe $40. |
| 10:18.52 | cybaea | I feel your pain. Use the magic local.conf option |
| 10:19.12 | cybaea | SpeedEvil: not me |
| 10:19.14 | SpeedEvil | With kernel driver, reporting accel events over a mouse-like interface |
| 10:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-32-60.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:19.58 | SpeedEvil | Internal to the phone. |
| 10:20.41 | Psi_ | seems like a lot of work to go to when you could just wait a few months and get the neo with one built in |
| 10:21.14 | cybaea | The Neo is 2 axis? |
| 10:21.30 | SpeedEvil | Not really for users. Undo a couple of screws, plug in, job done. |
| 10:21.31 | Psi_ | afaik the next model is 3-axis |
| 10:21.39 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A848E4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:21.46 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness (n=koen@host86-131-236-115.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:22.11 | Psi_ | SpeedEvil, i was more meaning the software to use it |
| 10:22.15 | notserpe | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:22.17 | SpeedEvil | 3 axis with possibly very bad accelerometers, if the ML post was accurate and they haven't changed which one they were planning. |
| 10:23.18 | SpeedEvil | notserpe: just got the bits today - have to prototype first. Probably going to be delayed till I get a neo - maybe till the next run, it's quite likely they'll run out before I can get cash - couple of weeks. |
| 10:24.27 | cybaea | Psi_: you are right. There are two of them, which is why I got confused. Happens easily to me these days.... ;-) |
| 10:25.04 | *** part/#openmoko ibnjam (n=ibnjam@203.92.154.36) |
| 10:25.50 | roh | aloril: the ticketnumbers have no direct correlation to the number of orders. its a RT-id which means its rising, unique, but this includes all queues, not only oders |
| 10:25.55 | roh | eh orders |
| 10:26.34 | roh | aloril: its about a bit < 350 tickets now, which means atleast that much mokos |
| 10:28.11 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@157.Red-88-9-88.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:28.41 | SpeedEvil | roh: any feeling as to how long a new run might take? |
| 10:29.16 | roh | SpeedEvil nope.. but when its clear that its needed it will be ran asap afaik |
| 10:29.47 | SpeedEvil | Well - I'd say 1/3+ sold in 10 hours pretty much means they'll be gone in a week. |
| 10:29.54 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 10:29.56 | roh | SpeedEvil due to the complicated delivery via us it takes a few days, so if we hurry it should be nearly seemless |
| 10:30.14 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 10:30.25 | roh | SpeedEvil eh. 350 is the number of tickets, not mokos. some people want more than one or group-order |
| 10:30.43 | ewon | so, as it currently stands, can one make and receive calls with the moko? |
| 10:30.50 | SpeedEvil | roh: yes - 1/3+ |
| 10:31.15 | SpeedEvil | roh: is there an actual counting process, or do you say 'oops' if there are lots of people ordering 10? |
| 10:31.18 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: why no lowlevel_foo for gtaXX ? |
| 10:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko drear|laptop (n=drear@nblzone-208-36.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 10:31.46 | roh | SpeedEvil the funny bet would be if of if not were sold out via 24hours ;) |
| 10:32.17 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_gpm (n=thomasg@p57AFF86C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:33.02 | cybaea | how many did they produce in the first batch? |
| 10:33.05 | tuukkah | Morglet, well techies can be good at priming the market by selling to other techies. then to make the rest logical, you indeed need to understand something illogical :-) |
| 10:33.10 | roh | SpeedEvil we will not shut down the shop, no. we will just send a mail that it takes longer. its not that bad as initially, now when the process is set up |
| 10:33.18 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 10:34.04 | ewanm89_laptop | boost+monotone still not playing: http://pastebin.ca/610203 ?? |
| 10:35.32 | Psi_ | ok, i dunno if anyone has already done this, but i adding up the 'P1 buyers interest list' and the 'P1 owners list'. The avg number of phones per user is 1.102425876 |
| 10:35.55 | Psi_ | so say 1.1 |
| 10:36.51 | Psi_ | so at 350 tickets that's something like 385 phones |
| 10:36.52 | roh | Psi_ which is totally bogus because there is a huge number of people who would never put their name into a wiki for such a reason ;) |
| 10:37.39 | Psi_ | roh, they didnt put their name in the list because they didnt want me to avg them ? |
| 10:38.26 | Psi_ | and i know its not a real value, its an educated guess based on the data available |
| 10:39.10 | cybaea | how do I apply a patch in openembedded/ and not have it go away in the future? |
| 10:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-153-90-52.range86-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:39.27 | cybaea | Can I just dump it in openembeded/patches? |
| 10:40.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:40.20 | ewanm89_laptop | did someone reply to my last post? |
| 10:41.00 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 10:41.18 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 10:41.19 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03werner * r2374 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/oe-sync: - removed to avoid confusing merge work |
| 10:41.26 | ewon | wooo, ordered |
| 10:41.36 | Psi_ | what number? |
| 10:41.51 | ewon | haven't got the email yet |
| 10:41.56 | CM | cybaea: I didn't need any extra patches |
| 10:42.17 | cybaea | CM: I need the one from http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2553 |
| 10:42.19 | *** join/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 10:42.25 | CM | cybaea: I did need to symlink some page/asm.h or something like that, but I can't remember exactly |
| 10:42.26 | sannes | Psi_: My reason for not putting myself of any of the lists is because it really doesn't make a difference :) |
| 10:42.49 | andylockran | was the vmware image of teh dev environment ever completed? |
| 10:42.51 | cybaea | I am not quite sure how this build system works yet.... |
| 10:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko aLeSD (n=alex@153.Red-88-0-12.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:43.38 | aLeSD | hi all |
| 10:43.41 | cybaea | (Or a version of that patch) |
| 10:44.19 | aLeSD | I have a i386 ... I 'd like to port some software on the openmoko system .. does exist a simulator ? |
| 10:44.19 | aloril | aLeSD: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:44.36 | CM | cybaea: I haven't added any patch manually either, but there's been descriptopns on how to do it on the mailinglist. |
| 10:45.13 | aLeSD | :) |
| 10:45.20 | notserpe | what does everyone think of Java on the Neo? |
| 10:46.07 | dcorking | does the photo at the top right of this http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-advanced-00-develkit.html show a dashboard mount holster? |
| 10:46.38 | notserpe | mmazur: are you only a Java programmer? ;-) |
| 10:46.47 | mmazur | Just kidding :) |
| 10:46.55 | bedboi | notserpe: i like the "only" :) |
| 10:47.06 | mmazur | One think wonders me though -- is there a free version of the embedded java platform to use? |
| 10:47.09 | mdt | notserpe, i dont think java is needed on an phone with am open development environment - you don't have the problem that java solves. |
| 10:47.23 | ewon | mmazur: superwaba can probably be made to work on it. It's not Real Java(tm) though. |
| 10:47.41 | hrw | mdt: I have one important for me javaME app on my current phone |
| 10:47.52 | mdt | :D google maps? |
| 10:47.55 | ewon | mdt: yes, but it allows easy porting of java apps. For instance, I've written a superwaba app I'd really like to see run on my openmoko |
| 10:47.57 | CM | notserpe: There's many people interested in getting the open j2me jre working on the neo |
| 10:48.01 | univac | polakow coraz wiecej |
| 10:48.03 | univac | ;] |
| 10:48.06 | ewon | univac: english pls |
| 10:48.11 | univac | yhy. |
| 10:48.13 | Kero | ha, I want Ruby on my Neo :) |
| 10:48.22 | tuukkah | j2me is free and open source, right? |
| 10:48.34 | hardskinone | +1 for j2me on Neo. |
| 10:48.38 | CM | Kero: Heh, I think it's available in opennembedded already |
| 10:48.39 | mdt | but java is a sandbox env, you don't reach all the nice features of a phone |
| 10:48.51 | Kero | CM: I think so, too (saves me the work! :) |
| 10:48.58 | hrw | mdt: no, local public transport stations schedule |
| 10:49.01 | CM | tuukkah: It is, but last I checked it was a real pain to even build it |
| 10:49.25 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 10:49.36 | tuukkah | mdt, depends on the primitive classes you implement natively |
| 10:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 10:49.45 | mmazur | Shipping cost |
| 10:49.49 | mmazur | $96.99 USD |
| 10:49.54 | mmazur | $146.42 USD |
| 10:49.56 | mmazur | Ouch. |
| 10:50.01 | mdt | tuukkah, yes, but there is no JEP for the interesting stuff right now |
| 10:50.07 | *** join/#openmoko _leo__` (n=user@r190-64-7-240.dialup.adsl.anteldata.net.uy) |
| 10:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko jdav (n=james@d142-179-3-51.bchsia.telus.net) |
| 10:50.26 | tuukkah | mmazur, order with some other people together |
| 10:50.26 | CM | cybaea: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile#Developing_with_MokoMakefile |
| 10:50.49 | CM | cybaea: That's how to use quilt to add the patch |
| 10:50.55 | cybaea | thanks CM |
| 10:51.25 | tuukkah | mdt, you don't need to standardize everything. it won't be write-once-run-anywhere but it will make porting from other platforms a lot easier |
| 10:52.28 | tuukkah | for example the vast amount of j2me games is nice to have on a platform |
| 10:52.42 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@219-89-44-229.dialup.xtra.co.nz) |
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| 10:52.54 | mdt | okay, for games. this is not of interest for me ;) |
| 10:52.55 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 10:53.02 | tuukkah | mdt, it's of interest to the users :-) |
| 10:53.03 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@omsk.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 10:53.45 | notserpe | I'm not sure we need J2ME to enable $10 cell games market on Moko. |
| 10:53.58 | woglinde | phoneme |
| 10:54.11 | mdt | tuukkah, there would be more impartent stuff to do before ;) |
| 10:54.12 | tuukkah | need vs. nice to have |
| 10:54.18 | mdt | :) |
| 10:54.20 | woglinde | but you must port the gtklib to gtk 2.0 |
| 10:54.43 | woglinde | and midp support is not it |
| 10:55.10 | mdt | how about svg/js? |
| 10:55.20 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 10:55.20 | rd_ | any idea why the shipping cost is too expensive? |
| 10:55.27 | woglinde | hm any info how much orders till now? |
| 10:55.32 | andylockran | rd_: everything goes through the us |
| 10:55.47 | rd_ | 120USD for shipping in my case |
| 10:55.58 | ewon | superwaba should be easily portable to the moko |
| 10:56.41 | *** join/#openmoko jb_vlc (n=a4810129@poy.chewa.net) |
| 10:57.24 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 10:58.13 | mdt | does the phone use gsm0710 (i read so) and is there already a daemon for that? i implemented one recently - any interests? |
| 10:59.12 | jb_vlc | Hello. |
| 10:59.53 | woglinde | whats gsm0710? |
| 11:00.00 | andylockran | where will the repo of dev apps be? |
| 11:00.01 | jb_vlc | Where do I start to port an application to the phone ? |
| 11:00.02 | aloril | jb_vlc: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:00.05 | Morglet | 234 comments on Slashdot, so it's already a big league thread even though it's still 2h before east coast USA gets to the office. |
| 11:00.55 | mdt | 0710 is a muxer protocol used with gsm modems |
| 11:01.37 | mdt | which gsm chip is used in the phone? |
| 11:01.48 | woglinde | look at wiki side |
| 11:01.52 | Morglet | mdt: can you GSM mux through the AT commandset? |
| 11:01.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Miki]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[FAQ/de]] [[Group_Order]] [[Introduction/de]] [[Template:Languages]] [[Translation_HOWTO/ro]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[Talk:Main_Page/it]] [[Main_Page/it]] and other changes |
| 11:02.38 | mdt | Moriarty_, for 0710 you switch on the muxer with AT+CMUX - after that the communication is binary |
| 11:03.01 | Stephmw | woglinde: J2ME support isn't that far away really. there's MIDPath available that should really only need a little work (it already has GTK support) |
| 11:03.06 | mdt | Moriarty_, but in the channels you have AT commands again, shure |
| 11:03.32 | mmazur | Hmmm. Why isn't the order filling fully online? |
| 11:03.56 | woglinde | stephmw hehe phoneme is opensource too, but gained not much attention |
| 11:03.59 | mmazur | (that is -- I get an immidiate response) |
| 11:04.35 | Stephmw | woglinde: if you have a look at the MIDPath site, you'll it's based on phoneME sources |
| 11:04.44 | Stephmw | *see |
| 11:04.58 | woglinde | ah right that was the fork |
| 11:04.59 | roh | mdt its a ti calypso |
| 11:05.07 | Morglet | LOL, phoneme is so different to phoneME :-) |
| 11:05.10 | SpeedEvil | rd_: it's pretty much on the normal line for UPS |
| 11:05.19 | mdt | roh, any link to some docs? |
| 11:05.24 | SpeedEvil | rd_: UPS is annoyingly expensive. |
| 11:05.33 | roh | mdt afaik harald has some half-ported code for the kernel from openezx for ts0710 |
| 11:05.34 | SpeedEvil | mdt: TI mostly NDA it |
| 11:06.01 | mdt | okay... i am out for lunch... see you |
| 11:06.05 | SpeedEvil | mdt: you might wander round the ti.com site and see what you can find |
| 11:06.26 | roh | mdt nope.. for the ti stuff we cannot give out documentation. but what do you want to knowm exactly? |
| 11:07.12 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@e021.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 11:08.36 | dcorking | I think the car kit in the Hackers Lunchbox was quietly dropped - the pic at http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-advanced-00-develkit.html seems to show a dashboard mount, but it is not listed in the inventory below. Am I right? |
| 11:09.09 | daxxar | http://rafb.net/p/IEaKag14.html -- anyone know what causes this error when building for x86? |
| 11:09.09 | SpeedEvil | The dashboard mount is nothing special AIUI. |
| 11:09.12 | jb_vlc | Can I develop an application with the standard version ? |
| 11:09.15 | SpeedEvil | No power or GSM antenna |
| 11:09.18 | SpeedEvil | jb_vlc: yes |
| 11:09.28 | SpeedEvil | jb_vlc: almost nobody actually needs the debug board |
| 11:09.30 | daxxar | The only thing I can understand is an 'error' is "read jobs pipe: No such file or directory. Stop." - which makes no sense to me. |
| 11:09.57 | jb_vlc | SpeedEvil: any advice to start porting an application to it ? |
| 11:10.20 | andylockran | is anyone going to the openstreetmap conference? |
| 11:11.05 | CM | daxxar: Never seen that error before, but it looks like a missing file or something |
| 11:11.21 | woglinde | stephwm ah cacao opened already the mips and arm port |
| 11:12.56 | SpeedEvil | jb_vlc: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMokoFramework may be of use |
| 11:13.06 | SpeedEvil | jb_vlc: it's basically X. |
| 11:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 11:14.58 | SpeedEvil | jb_vlc: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_Where_can_I_find_some_type_of_tutorial_for_a_.27Hello.2C_world.27_on_OpenMoko.3F basically |
| 11:15.08 | jb_vlc | I'll give an eye on it, then, if it is not too complicated |
| 11:15.21 | jb_vlc | well, Hello World might be too easy :D |
| 11:15.53 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-242-225.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 11:15.55 | jb_vlc | It'll depend on the toolchain I guess :D |
| 11:18.28 | SpeedEvil | jb_vlc: Initially, you can pretty much compile for your normal computer, just using GTK |
| 11:18.43 | *** join/#openmoko Fatal (i=fatal@debian.as) |
| 11:19.00 | jb_vlc | SpeedEvil: and command line too ? |
| 11:19.15 | ewon | does the 1973 ship with openmoko installed? |
| 11:19.30 | woglinde | ewon yes |
| 11:19.34 | ewon | cool. |
| 11:19.41 | ewon | can it make and receive phone calls? |
| 11:19.45 | sannes | probably already outdated ? :P |
| 11:19.57 | woglinde | that I dont know |
| 11:20.01 | woglinde | roh knows maybee |
| 11:20.11 | roh | not really |
| 11:20.13 | *** join/#openmoko _leo__` (n=user@201.221.39.243) |
| 11:20.24 | roh | propably you have to do an update first. |
| 11:20.46 | roh | and its develversion. i dunno if the dialer is working atm |
| 11:21.08 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@85.127.79.179) |
| 11:22.49 | jb_vlc | SpeedEvil: thanks. I'll give an eye on OE and the cmpiler things. And I'll wait october :D |
| 11:23.42 | woglinde | lol 20 comments more in 5 minutes on heise.de |
| 11:24.52 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 11:27.54 | Viko | Will GTA02 have USB2? |
| 11:27.59 | jeddy3 | how about non-international characters in adress fields anyone, can i use that without order form going crazy? :) |
| 11:28.02 | SpeedEvil | No. Viko |
| 11:30.15 | mmazur | What's the max speed of usb1? |
| 11:30.21 | mmazur | In openmoko? |
| 11:30.28 | CM | cybaea: Sometimes when the build fails it's just to restart it and then everything magically works. Happened a 2-3 times when I've built from scratch, usually because of failing svn checkouts |
| 11:30.36 | SpeedEvil | mmazur a megabyte/second or so |
| 11:31.13 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: call it 20 minutes to load 1 gig. |
| 11:32.03 | hardskinone | I still get the same error :*( http://rafb.net/p/BJDONJ64.html |
| 11:32.16 | jeddy3 | CM, there? |
| 11:32.24 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 11:32.24 | hardskinone | I double check installed packages.. al ok. |
| 11:32.26 | CM | jeddy3: As always ;) |
| 11:32.32 | jeddy3 | CM :) |
| 11:32.53 | jeddy3 | CM, har du några åäö som blev manglade i formuläret? :) |
| 11:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 11:33.30 | CM | jeddy3: Ja, jag skippade alla åäö. Räknade med att de hade något fult perl-script och att åäö skulle sabba det. ;) |
| 11:33.39 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, more then enough for gprs then. |
| 11:33.54 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. Or it's got bluetooth. |
| 11:34.47 | jeddy3 | CM, mmm, det blev ä osv...funderade på att det är bättre att bara göra om dom till aao |
| 11:34.57 | *** join/#openmoko batti112 (n=batti@blfd-4db518f7.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 11:35.04 | jeddy3 | CM, precis |
| 11:35.10 | *** join/#openmoko rzr (i=rzr@lav35-1-82-236-136-171.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:35.27 | rzr | hi |
| 11:35.47 | rzr | too bad that there is no camera on '73 |
| 11:35.57 | woglinde | jesus |
| 11:36.03 | *** join/#openmoko Cred (n=teemu@temuli.utu.fi) |
| 11:36.06 | woglinde | bad bad bad |
| 11:36.56 | *** join/#openmoko nosrednaekim (n=michael@01-103.200.popsite.net) |
| 11:37.28 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 11:39.14 | Sup3rkiddo | can anyone please tell me if the devices are sold out? |
| 11:39.22 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:39.58 | SpeedEvil | Not yet. |
| 11:40.06 | SpeedEvil | Probably around 1/3-1/2 sold |
| 11:40.09 | CM | Sup3rkiddo: If they are, roh said they'll just manufacture more and you'll be notified of the delay in the order confirmation mail |
| 11:40.14 | SpeedEvil | And that. |
| 11:40.23 | CM | The shop will remain open |
| 11:40.41 | Sup3rkiddo | CM, ok cool..so i guess i can squeeze out a day |
| 11:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko _leo__ (n=user@201.221.39.243) |
| 11:41.15 | Psi_ | hehe |
| 11:41.20 | SpeedEvil | andylockran: they are readily available on ebay for cheap |
| 11:41.57 | andylockran | SpeedEvil: I don't know how I'm so out of it considering I've been reading all emails on the list since january,,, |
| 11:42.21 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@e043.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 11:42.39 | SpeedEvil | andylockran: it may simply have been mentioned on IRC |
| 11:42.41 | SpeedEvil | dunno |
| 11:42.56 | andylockran | yeah, there does seem to be a lot more going on in here |
| 11:43.11 | andylockran | only been on irc for 5 days now though, so good to be here.. |
| 11:43.50 | Sup3rkiddo | i heard that the shipping + advanced kit = 569$... |
| 11:44.04 | Sup3rkiddo | frigging card allows 500$ per transaction |
| 11:45.47 | ewanm89_laptop | Anyone know shipping to the UK? |
| 11:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M87f9.m.pppool.de) |
| 11:45.48 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: $80 |
| 11:45.48 | SpeedEvil | ewanm89_laptop: wander over to [[Group Order]] on the wiki |
| 11:46.20 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: Yeah, but I have a slight problem with who has a credit/debit card |
| 11:46.56 | Sup3rkiddo | in india? |
| 11:47.47 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone know shipping to india? |
| 11:47.48 | ewanm89_laptop | 7 UK |
| 11:47.48 | ewanm89_laptop | Organiser: |
| 11:50.10 | *** part/#openmoko Cred (n=teemu@temuli.utu.fi) |
| 11:52.41 | ewanm89_laptop | Is that $80 without group order? |
| 11:52.46 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 11:52.57 | ewanm89_laptop | Thanks |
| 11:53.07 | ewanm89_laptop | Any taxes to worry about? |
| 11:53.14 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 11:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host81-153-25-122.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:53.31 | SpeedEvil | You will probably be hit with VAT and import duty |
| 11:54.04 | ewanm89_laptop | SpeedEvil: That was my guess, know the current rates for import duty? |
| 11:54.14 | SpeedEvil | probably around 50 quid total. |
| 11:54.27 | SpeedEvil | VAT at 17.5%, and import duty at 6% |
| 11:54.40 | daxxar | I get the same error (http://rafb.net/p/IEaKag14.html) after I did rm -r on everything except local.conf and Makefile, then make setup && make openmoko-devel-image |
| 11:54.43 | SpeedEvil | I think - I haven't looked up for special rates on phones |
| 11:55.28 | roh | daxxar on which distro are you? |
| 11:55.41 | daxxar | Ubuntu |
| 11:55.44 | daxxar | Feisty Fawn |
| 11:56.05 | roh | is your /bin/sh linked to dash? |
| 11:56.51 | daxxar | daxxar@unsane:/home/moko$ ls -l $(which sh) |
| 11:56.51 | daxxar | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 9 2007-07-09 12:09 /bin/sh -> /bin/bash |
| 11:57.00 | daxxar | I changed that manually as per the instructions |
| 11:57.02 | Sup3rkiddo | 19,40 ? in INR |
| 11:57.04 | roh | ok |
| 11:57.04 | *** join/#openmoko fralef (n=fralef@142.92.41.245) |
| 11:57.08 | Sup3rkiddo | oops |
| 11:57.47 | *** part/#openmoko nosrednaekim (n=michael@01-103.200.popsite.net) |
| 11:58.23 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, in the event of selling out soon, and if i order it after that, how delay do you reckon?... |
| 11:58.33 | Sup3rkiddo | it = neo |
| 11:58.37 | roh | Sup3rkiddo i really dunno |
| 11:58.42 | jeddy3 | what was the story on the previous shipping occations?, DHL versus UPS, one charged for VAT and one didn't am i right? |
| 11:59.24 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, oh..sorry, but i take it that devices will be manufactured as and when orders pour in |
| 11:59.38 | SpeedEvil | Sup3rkiddo: yes. |
| 12:00.01 | Sup3rkiddo | SpeedEvil, :P ok |
| 12:00.02 | ben_goodger | I have a question concerning pricing: why is this device suddenly going to rocket seventy quid when it's released on the mass market? |
| 12:00.19 | pjz | ben_goodger: because it's gaining wifi and some other thardware features |
| 12:00.36 | roh | Sup3rkiddo i think when its obvious we run out soon that whole process will take only a few weeks |
| 12:00.38 | SpeedEvil | wifi, hardware acceleration, accelerometers. |
| 12:00.51 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, right... |
| 12:00.55 | ben_goodger | oh, I see. I missed that |
| 12:00.56 | ben_goodger | thanks |
| 12:01.28 | guillaum1 | hi all |
| 12:01.34 | Stephmw | hey guillaum1 |
| 12:02.03 | guillaum1 | direct.openmoko.com seems still down ... |
| 12:02.04 | Stephmw | ben_goodger: there's also the coolness factor |
| 12:02.21 | Stephmw | ben_goodger: extra tax :D |
| 12:02.40 | Stephmw | guillaum1: currently working for me |
| 12:02.44 | Fatal | "I used my openmoko phone when it was underground" ? |
| 12:02.52 | Stephmw | guillaum1: at least, it's loading the page |
| 12:02.55 | ben_goodger | guh |
| 12:02.59 | ben_goodger | damn this government |
| 12:03.14 | guillaum1 | Stephmw, I can't go to the second step |
| 12:03.22 | guillaum1 | blank page |
| 12:03.23 | Stephmw | ben_goodger: I'm going to wait for WiFi + .eu shipping source |
| 12:03.30 | Stephmw | ben_goodger: to avoid that damned VAT |
| 12:03.41 | ben_goodger | mmm, gotta love the EU |
| 12:03.42 | Stephmw | guillaum1: ah |
| 12:03.47 | mmazur | 1337 |
| 12:03.55 | CM | guillaum1: There's some bug with that if you dont have a capital letter on State |
| 12:04.04 | Stephmw | guillaum1: I'd try it... but I'm not allowed another gadget this year... already spent my cash :( |
| 12:04.12 | ben_goodger | then again, £225 seems a little steep anyway, but I suppose it's really a PDA |
| 12:04.25 | SpeedEvil | ben_goodger: compare with similar phones. |
| 12:04.26 | mmazur | It is. |
| 12:04.29 | guillaum1 | CM, ah ok. thanks for the infos |
| 12:04.32 | mmazur | PDA/gps device |
| 12:04.36 | mmazur | Quite cheap as both I believe. |
| 12:04.39 | SpeedEvil | ben_goodger: It's pretty much on a par, or a little cheaper. |
| 12:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko neuro` (n=neuro@real.men.use.stunnel.and.7el.net) |
| 12:04.57 | neuro` | Hello |
| 12:05.10 | ben_goodger | ho hum |
| 12:05.13 | ben_goodger | neuro`: hello |
| 12:05.26 | ewon | good question - when my moko arrives here in the EU, am I going to get hit for customs / vat? |
| 12:05.39 | cybaea | ewon: almost certainly |
| 12:05.49 | ewon | ah _shit_ |
| 12:05.52 | neuro` | Does the phone already have WIFI ? Can't find anything bout this on the shop |
| 12:05.52 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 12:06.11 | neuro` | This was quick |
| 12:06.17 | roh | guillaum1 is your ZIP correct and complete? and did you enter a province/state and if yes in what format? |
| 12:06.51 | guillaum1 | CM, roh, I fill the state field with "PARIS" , zip is 75031 |
| 12:07.14 | Placid | Don't suppose there's any stats on how many have been sold are there? :D |
| 12:07.22 | Placid | 'tis and exciting day man! |
| 12:07.37 | roh | guillaum1 because we have a similar problem in US where they need to put in a 2 letter abbreviation of the state |
| 12:07.57 | roh | you could try an abbr. or leaving state empty |
| 12:08.37 | guillaum1 | roh, an empty state field doesn't work too |
| 12:09.00 | ben_goodger | I really hope this will be localised. I don't wish to call Cornwall a state |
| 12:09.14 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-065-151-253.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:09.34 | roh | ben_goodger thats a maze the ups xml api has left us with *sigh* |
| 12:09.40 | ewanm89_laptop | ewon: Don't you hate the european governments sometimes. |
| 12:09.49 | ben_goodger | oh, lovely |
| 12:09.51 | Placid | lol ben_goodger |
| 12:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko wbx_ (n=wbx@gw.aurisp.de) |
| 12:09.58 | roh | till 10 minutes ago i though it only hits the us |
| 12:10.14 | ben_goodger | and I suppose I'll have PL220LB rejected on the grounds of improper formatting too? |
| 12:10.59 | roh | i dunno that encoding |
| 12:11.26 | ben_goodger | postcode |
| 12:11.44 | jeddy3 | CM, NU såg jag att det inte kom fram något till dig...får inte skicka till dig som oreggad på freenode :P |
| 12:11.47 | *** part/#openmoko neuro` (n=neuro@real.men.use.stunnel.and.7el.net) |
| 12:11.47 | ben_goodger | some things demand a five-digit zip code, a la US |
| 12:12.03 | CM | jeddy3: Aha, men registrera då din latmask ;) |
| 12:12.41 | *** part/#openmoko pa-ching (i=pa-ching@nanoeng.ca) |
| 12:13.29 | guillaum1 | CM, you have typed VA, do you ? |
| 12:13.54 | CM | guillaum1: What do you mean? |
| 12:14.13 | guillaum1 | CM, Vastra Gotaland = VA :-D |
| 12:14.18 | CM | I did put State: Vastra Gotaland and Zip 41456 |
| 12:14.23 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host8-57-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 12:15.41 | CM | ben_goodger: You're the Firefox guy btw? |
| 12:16.38 | ben_goodger | nope |
| 12:16.40 | ben_goodger | I wish I was |
| 12:16.53 | CM | Hehe. Just recognized the name |
| 12:16.58 | ben_goodger | but I just share his name and certain left-wing tendencies |
| 12:19.49 | ewon | don't suppose the people shipping the moko are open to marking the thing as "GIFT"? |
| 12:20.00 | SpeedEvil | That'd be fraud. |
| 12:20.07 | ewon | true |
| 12:20.29 | SpeedEvil | And would actually leave FIC open to lawsuits |
| 12:20.34 | guillaum1 | CM, roh, doesn't work... I tried Vastra Gotaland and Zip 41456, changed my name, removing spaces. nothing ... arggggggh |
| 12:20.36 | Stephmw | and anyway... you haven't sent us any "GIFTs" |
| 12:20.38 | ewon | it is a gift, in a way. I sent them some money out of the goodness of my heart, and now, due to them liking me so much, are sending me a moko |
| 12:20.46 | mdt | as far as i know something like 'sample' would work... |
| 12:20.59 | ewon | mdt: no |
| 12:21.01 | Viko | With it being an open phone, it should be possible to get it shipped in modules with low enough value to avoid VAT :D |
| 12:21.09 | Stephmw | ewon: which country are you in? |
| 12:21.13 | CM | guillaum1: Maybe it's getting stuck on something else. I have a lot of åäö in my address, but changed them to aao |
| 12:21.22 | mdt | ewon, any better idea? |
| 12:21.34 | CM | guillaum1: Maybe if you have some ô or ' or such you can try without them? |
| 12:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko ajmitch (n=ajmitch@ubuntu/member/ajmitch) |
| 12:22.22 | guillaum1 | CM, I just have letters and numbers |
| 12:22.29 | CM | Weird |
| 12:22.33 | ynezz | marking it as "non-working developer sample" is ok i think |
| 12:22.39 | ynezz | and it's true... |
| 12:22.52 | mdt | ynezz, which country? |
| 12:23.12 | ynezz | whole EU? |
| 12:24.31 | ynezz | well it have value, because you've bought it for $350 |
| 12:24.40 | ynezz | so you should pay a VAT |
| 12:25.15 | ynezz | but it's still developer, non-working device |
| 12:25.24 | ynezz | shouldn't be charged as working phone |
| 12:25.39 | *** join/#openmoko arw (i=root@gateway/tor/x-3cac01d882525b06) |
| 12:25.51 | ynezz | i would tell the custom, ok if you claim it's working, there is a sim-card and call me... |
| 12:25.54 | SpeedEvil | Go through the legislation, and find out if engineering samples have 0% CAT |
| 12:26.07 | SpeedEvil | ynezz: that should actually be possible |
| 12:26.10 | SpeedEvil | - if charged |
| 12:26.20 | ben_goodger | ynezz: you can achieve the same results with my nokia 3100 and a fake battery |
| 12:26.44 | ynezz | it's nokia, it won't work :) |
| 12:26.58 | guillaum1 | CM, roh, found the problem. In the list of country, I have to choose France and not France, Metropolitan. doesn't work with the latter |
| 12:27.17 | ynezz | and i would charge the battery for him |
| 12:27.21 | ynezz | that's not problem |
| 12:27.27 | roh | ouch |
| 12:28.00 | ben_goodger | why is metropolitan france considered a separate country? |
| 12:28.26 | mdt | roh, again about gsm0710, do you think harald would be interested? (btw is harald here?) |
| 12:28.31 | CM | I guess it shouldn't be in that listbox, since it doesn't work |
| 12:28.49 | ynezz | hope there will be a invoice stating it's "developer preview" |
| 12:28.58 | ynezz | +point for me when talking to custom |
| 12:29.05 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfUrl (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 12:29.05 | Stephmw | ben_goodger: parisians are a different type of French :D |
| 12:29.07 | CM | ynezz: I hope so too. |
| 12:29.15 | ben_goodger | Stephmw: aha |
| 12:29.31 | ben_goodger | sorry, the only experience I have of france is driving through it on the way to spain |
| 12:29.49 | ben_goodger | peugeots seem ridiculously popular there |
| 12:30.03 | Stephmw | what, you mean like Astras used to be here? |
| 12:30.14 | ben_goodger | I wouldn't know about that |
| 12:30.23 | Stephmw | ben_goodger: you're in the UK, no? |
| 12:30.28 | ben_goodger | I can't even drive yet :P |
| 12:30.35 | ben_goodger | well, not legally |
| 12:30.43 | ben_goodger | yes, I am |
| 12:30.50 | Stephmw | ahhhhhhh |
| 12:31.07 | Stephmw | no wonder, yeah, Astras were a fad a bit before your time :D |
| 12:31.15 | guillaum1 | ben_goodger, some french territories are in the pacific for example |
| 12:31.32 | ben_goodger | peugeots seem to outnumber the cars here, but I barely see anything else in france |
| 12:31.49 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@Mb846.m.pppool.de) |
| 12:31.59 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-242-225.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 12:32.48 | ben_goodger | guillaum1: yes, and French Polynesia deserves its own country entry, but not the built-up areas. it'd be like listing Plymouth as a county |
| 12:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host86-152-203-130.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:33.29 | guillaum1 | ben_goodger, right |
| 12:34.08 | mmazur | Anybody got that confirmation email? |
| 12:34.14 | mmazur | What's the From: address in it? |
| 12:34.18 | mmazur | (you know, spameaters) |
| 12:34.33 | Fatal | I'm still waiting for my collegue to decide if he wants one bad enough :) |
| 12:35.23 | ynezz | mmazur: i think nobody got confirmation yet |
| 12:35.33 | Stephmw | guillaum1: so... does that mean you've successfully ordered? |
| 12:35.49 | CM | mmazur: or do you mean the automatic one that your ticket is registered? |
| 12:35.57 | ewon | Stephmw: Im in Ireland |
| 12:36.06 | mmazur | CM, there's an automatic one? |
| 12:36.33 | CM | mmazur: Yes, got it as soon as I had placed the order (after step 3) |
| 12:36.52 | CM | mmazur: From: Web Shop via RT <orders@openmoko.com> Jul 8 (16 hours ago) |
| 12:38.21 | Stephmw | ewon: hmmm, as in the UK it's declared value (insurance purposes means it should be accurate) that dictates tax+duty... nothing else |
| 12:38.25 | mmazur | Ok, thx, just fished it out of spam folder. |
| 12:39.03 | ewon | Stephmw: apparently it it's deemed to be a computer I don't pay tax... do you think I can convince FIC to put "COMPUTER" on the package? |
| 12:39.12 | ewon | that's not fraud |
| 12:39.40 | mmazur | CM, someone should add info about that email to the website. |
| 12:39.44 | Stephmw | ewon: well, maybe not duty... but still vat |
| 12:39.55 | ewon | Stephmw: I know, but anything to reduce the cost :) |
| 12:40.04 | guillaum1 | Stephmw, yes ! right now |
| 12:40.16 | andylockran | so theres no clue as to when they'll actually be shipped yet? |
| 12:41.04 | ben_goodger | andylockran: did you even read the subject? |
| 12:41.08 | guillaum1 | CM, roh, thanks for your help ! It's ok now |
| 12:41.10 | ben_goodger | "http://cvcl.mit.edu/hybrid_gallery/tatcher_blair.html" |
| 12:41.12 | ben_goodger | oops |
| 12:41.16 | ben_goodger | Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later |
| 12:41.31 | *** part/#openmoko notserpe (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 12:41.40 | ewon | where are the phones shipped from? A friend of mine in LA is coming over to see me, could get it shipped to her... would that work out cheaper? |
| 12:41.43 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 12:41.48 | andylockran | ben_goodger: ..no .. sorry.. how do I read it? |
| 12:42.08 | ben_goodger | ..look at the top of this window? |
| 12:42.54 | andylockran | ben_goodger: using irssi chat client on my server @ home.. can only see <>Buy now for $3000 from openmoko.com |
| 12:43.12 | ben_goodger | Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later |
| 12:43.19 | Stephmw | andylockran: type /topic |
| 12:43.24 | andylockran | just have done :p |
| 12:43.33 | andylockran | Stephmw: thanks.. |
| 12:43.59 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A571C8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:44.24 | Stephmw | andylockran: np, irssi always seems to have hidden nuggets |
| 12:44.26 | *** join/#openmoko moo_tang_clan (n=nnnnmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 12:44.39 | ewon | so is the phone shipped from the US or from Taiwan? |
| 12:45.01 | SpeedEvil | US |
| 12:45.57 | SpeedEvil | ewon: IIRC shipping in the US can be $14 |
| 12:46.04 | roh | ewon from california. |
| 12:46.17 | roh | shipping inside us is much cheaper |
| 12:46.20 | ewon | SpeedEvil: interesting... so if I get the phone shipped to someone in CA, and they bring it over to me, I avoid this whole problem> |
| 12:46.29 | SpeedEvil | ewon: many countries will charge duty and taxes on devices they find |
| 12:46.43 | ewon | SpeedEvil: if it's brought in on her person as a personal device, they won't charge for it |
| 12:46.50 | ewon | she's visiting for a week to Ireland |
| 12:46.51 | SpeedEvil | ewon: Yeah |
| 12:46.57 | roh | SpeedEvil not for one phone |
| 12:47.04 | ewon | sweet |
| 12:47.08 | ewon | better get in touch with her so :) |
| 12:47.20 | ewon | need to email them and get the delivery address changed so |
| 12:49.10 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0FA67.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:51.14 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@sflc/staff/conservancy.president.bkuhn) |
| 12:52.54 | *** join/#openmoko BlackFog (n=office@lehrer.lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 12:53.28 | *** join/#openmoko jcouture (n=jcouture@142.213.178.125) |
| 12:54.10 | ewon | hmmm.. so I've submitted my credit card details - how long does it take to get the confirmation email? |
| 12:54.29 | juco | what's with the self signed cert on https://direct.openmoko.com ? |
| 12:54.39 | mmazur | ewon, nobody got one, so we don't know :) |
| 12:54.44 | roh | ewon seconds if it works |
| 12:54.52 | ewon | roh: shit - I got nothing |
| 12:55.05 | roh | ewon antispam technology? |
| 12:55.19 | ewon | roh: greylisting, but it should have come through by now if it was going to |
| 12:55.33 | roh | eek. yeah.. there is a problem with that |
| 12:55.34 | juco | hmm, perhaps they are sold out |
| 12:55.46 | mmazur | ewon, confirmation email as in that your card transaction went fine? |
| 12:55.52 | mmazur | ewon, then afaik nobody got one yet. |
| 12:56.22 | *** join/#openmoko BobOfDoom (i=nobody@210-9-141-139.netspeed.com.au) |
| 12:56.54 | juco | oh, I see |
| 12:56.55 | juco | slashdot |
| 12:56.58 | *** part/#openmoko mrfeeti1 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 12:59.30 | mdt | openmoko is compared with the iphone always, what do you think of the greenphone? |
| 12:59.42 | SpeedEvil | Expensive. |
| 12:59.47 | Stephmw | Expensive. |
| 12:59.53 | Stephmw | Restricted :( |
| 12:59.58 | XXLT | lame |
| 13:00.00 | CM | fugly |
| 13:00.10 | XXLT | :) |
| 13:00.12 | Fatal | green |
| 13:00.14 | mdt | :D |
| 13:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.87) |
| 13:00.19 | arw | nice |
| 13:00.24 | arw | :=) |
| 13:00.32 | StylusEater_Work | what carriers will openmoko run on in the US? |
| 13:00.35 | mdt | anyone expirience with qtopia? |
| 13:00.35 | ben_goodger | it looks suspiciously like a fatter, shorter, unbendable Moto_razr |
| 13:00.45 | hrw | StylusEater_Work: any GSM |
| 13:00.46 | ben_goodger | StylusEater_Work: anything with a SIM |
| 13:00.54 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 13:01.04 | StylusEater_Work | awesome |
| 13:01.25 | XXLT | is it possible to do speed measurement with that agps sensor? |
| 13:01.26 | cybaea | ROFL: Is 'moko' really slang for snot or sperm in Spanish? :-D |
| 13:01.32 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 13:01.38 | ben_goodger | moco, actually |
| 13:01.39 | arw | yes |
| 13:01.42 | cybaea | haha |
| 13:01.44 | SpeedEvil | XXLT: it's GPS |
| 13:01.46 | cybaea | too funny |
| 13:01.49 | SpeedEvil | XXLT: yes |
| 13:02.09 | XXLT | fine, you already did it? |
| 13:02.15 | SpeedEvil | Last couple of minutes for this batch, given /. |
| 13:02.31 | SpeedEvil | XXLT: no - it gives NMEA output though, and I've done that with a GPS |
| 13:02.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation_HOWTO/de]] [[Translation]] [[Wishlist:Wikipedia_Mirror]] [[IPhone]] [[Talk:IPhone_%28GTA01%29]] |
| 13:03.28 | ben_goodger | is there going to be a proper GPS application with route finding and such? |
| 13:03.28 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-90-105.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 13:04.07 | ben_goodger | methinks one could write a cheap hack to constantly refresh a google maps URL with new coords, but that'd be expensive and shoddy |
| 13:04.14 | SpeedEvil | ben_goodger: the problem is the maps. |
| 13:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko opampca (n=opampca@modemcable054.139-81-70.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 13:04.25 | ben_goodger | indeed |
| 13:04.31 | SpeedEvil | ben_goodger: license to store maps runs into the millions of dollars. |
| 13:04.33 | CM | ben_goodger: I think cooperation with maemo mapper and open street map guys is the way to go :) |
| 13:04.52 | ben_goodger | you can't use openstreetmap for a real GPS |
| 13:04.57 | andylockran | yeah, there's an openstreetmap conference in manchester on the 14th 15th July I might go to] |
| 13:04.58 | mmazur | Hmmm. |
| 13:05.03 | SpeedEvil | ben_goodger: sure you can. |
| 13:05.07 | mmazur | Does the hardware allow to fully turn of a chip? |
| 13:05.11 | SpeedEvil | ben_goodger: it just sucks in some areas. |
| 13:05.16 | SpeedEvil | mmazur which chip? |
| 13:05.17 | ben_goodger | SpeedEvil: yes, it does |
| 13:05.21 | mmazur | gps/bluetooth particulary |
| 13:05.26 | CM | ben_goodger: Was some talk about a commercial gps-map program for the Neo on the dev mailinglist today and yesterday |
| 13:05.26 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: sure |
| 13:05.28 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:05.32 | cybaea | ben_goodger: you'd have to cache the maps. It seems to be what http://www.tegmento.org/gpsylon/ does |
| 13:05.41 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, as in zero power consumption? |
| 13:05.52 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: essentially zero |
| 13:05.53 | ben_goodger | openstreetmap sucks majorly |
| 13:05.57 | SpeedEvil | Not actually xero. |
| 13:06.10 | ben_goodger | it'll be good in two or three years, but it's totally unsuitable for a commercial-grade application |
| 13:06.18 | SpeedEvil | Umm - no. |
| 13:06.25 | SpeedEvil | decade at least IMO. |
| 13:06.32 | ben_goodger | heh |
| 13:06.37 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 13:06.56 | SpeedEvil | I write this from the perspective of someone who's mapped my local town roughly. |
| 13:07.14 | ben_goodger | I'd like to do that, but I only have access to a tomtom |
| 13:07.18 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@88.9.88.157) |
| 13:07.21 | SpeedEvil | 40K population - at least 400Km of driving/biking is involved, and around 20000 nodes or so |
| 13:07.42 | mmazur | Well, was thinking if it'll be usable as a base phone, but if it'll last not more then a day... |
| 13:07.55 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: last less? |
| 13:08.05 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s_ (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:08.12 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: with the processor off and just waiting for calls, it should last a week or so. |
| 13:08.16 | SpeedEvil | Maybe more. |
| 13:08.20 | ben_goodger | god, even the postcode map is off by thirty miles |
| 13:08.36 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 13:10.12 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, but with the processor off I wouldn't even be able to make phone calls? :) |
| 13:10.47 | ben_goodger | http://img151.imageshack.us/my.php?image=screenshotopenstreetmapqm8.png -- I live half-way between St Austell and Liskeard |
| 13:11.12 | Viko | Will it be possible to turn down the brightness of the screen to save power? |
| 13:12.11 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: you get interrupts when the power button is pushed |
| 13:12.21 | SpeedEvil | Viko: not meaningfully |
| 13:12.38 | Viko | SpeedEvil, so, either off or on then? |
| 13:12.46 | SpeedEvil | Viko: broadly - Screen uses 0.5W, CPU uses another 0.7W or so. |
| 13:13.04 | SpeedEvil | You have to have the CPU running to have the screen on. |
| 13:13.11 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, ok, but I'd like to type in a phone number and have it (a) display the number and (b) just work. |
| 13:13.16 | SpeedEvil | So though you can dim the screen so it uses 0.1W, ... |
| 13:13.28 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, I assume that's also done 100% in software, so I'd have to have cpu on. |
| 13:13.50 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: there are also touchscreen interrupts, so it can be in suspend-RAM till you touch the screen |
| 13:14.36 | Viko | SpeedEvil, how about speed modulation of the CPU.. I am thinking to play music while it is in the pocket or something. 1.2W to 0.7W seems ok. Throttling of a CPU -> 0.3W seems even better :) |
| 13:14.41 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 13:14.45 | SpeedEvil | Well - sort of. |
| 13:14.49 | SpeedEvil | It goes to 12Mhz. |
| 13:14.57 | SpeedEvil | But that's not enough to play music. |
| 13:15.18 | mmazur | Suspend to ram? Interesting. |
| 13:15.22 | SpeedEvil | It _may_ be possible to swap between 266 and 12Mhz fast enough to play audio seamlessly. |
| 13:15.42 | SpeedEvil | Basically, compute several seconds, then slow down and play it out |
| 13:15.49 | mmazur | So it'd boot up in a fraction of a second and still use little power. |
| 13:16.11 | Viko | But still. turning off the screen would still save 0.5W while playing music in the pocket... |
| 13:16.11 | SpeedEvil | That's the idea. |
| 13:16.18 | SpeedEvil | Viko: sure. |
| 13:17.24 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management according to this page slow mode is 50mW and the battery is roughly 3500mWh. That's not a week, that's less then three days. |
| 13:17.44 | SpeedEvil | off != slow mode |
| 13:17.53 | SpeedEvil | And I wrote much of that page. :) |
| 13:18.16 | SpeedEvil | CPU actually off, stopped, with just the RAM and GSM modem alive |
| 13:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 13:18.28 | mmazur | Oh. |
| 13:18.34 | SpeedEvil | with it setup to turn power on on touchscreen or power button interrupt |
| 13:18.48 | mmazur | or gsm stimuli? |
| 13:18.48 | SpeedEvil | And it then resumes from suspend-RAM |
| 13:18.54 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 13:19.02 | mmazur | And the lcd is fully off also? |
| 13:19.07 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 13:19.12 | mmazur | Hmmmm. |
| 13:19.17 | SpeedEvil | Much of this is not actually coded, but the hardware permits. |
| 13:19.24 | mmazur | Yes, I understand. |
| 13:19.44 | mmazur | So there's a real chance that in a few months time it'll have a really long battery life along with all those toys, ay? |
| 13:20.03 | SpeedEvil | Standby battery, perhaps. |
| 13:20.04 | *** join/#openmoko MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) |
| 13:20.07 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.77.154) |
| 13:20.16 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, yes, that's what I mean. |
| 13:20.57 | MagicFab | The " Openmoko goes lives" press release link at http://www.openmoko.com/press-index.html links to the html page itself, not to any press release |
| 13:21.16 | *** join/#openmoko slider_ (n=foo@e182045066.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:21.27 | SpeedEvil | In 'slow mode' doing stuff in the background, it's probably not going to be more than a day battery life. |
| 13:23.00 | mmazur | Hmmm. |
| 13:23.02 | ewon | emailed sales@ to see if they'll allow a change in delivery address |
| 13:23.23 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, considering that the whole phone is a one big touchscreen, won't it eat away at power when I just carry it around? |
| 13:23.32 | andylockran | hmm.. shipping date is from 'ys' |
| 13:23.33 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, you know, the cpu waking up all the time? |
| 13:23.37 | andylockran | 'us'^ |
| 13:23.38 | *** part/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.87) |
| 13:23.57 | ben_goodger | andylockran: add six to eight months for international shipping |
| 13:24.12 | mmazur | Six to eight? |
| 13:24.15 | mmazur | Are you kidding? |
| 13:24.15 | andylockran | ben_goodger: please be jokingme... |
| 13:24.17 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A848E4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:24.23 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 13:24.34 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: could be set to only turn on by pressing a button. In a case, that may not be an issue. |
| 13:24.34 | ben_goodger | well, judging on my experience with amazon.com as opposed to amazon.co.uk :) |
| 13:24.43 | mmazur | And I believe you were thinking 'weeks'. |
| 13:25.09 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, oh, so the 'wake up on what' thing is fully configurable? |
| 13:25.23 | SpeedEvil | yes, the wake interrupts are settable. |
| 13:25.53 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, so can have 'travel mode' with wake only on button, normal sleep mode with 'wake also on touchscreen' and full off mode with 'don't wake on gsm'. |
| 13:25.58 | ben_goodger | my final question before lunch: are there going to be any nice iconsets? the screenshots on the website remind me of e17 |
| 13:26.36 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: pretty much. |
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| 13:28.18 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, and even 'I'm weird mode' with 'don't wake on button or touchscreen and only on incoming gsm call'? :) |
| 13:28.42 | SpeedEvil | I think so - I haven't studied the interrupt controller. |
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| 13:30.51 | mdt | how does x on the neo access the graphic? is it a linux framebuffer? |
| 13:31.00 | SpeedEvil | Native driver. |
| 13:31.21 | mdt | SpeedEvil, a native x11 driver? |
| 13:31.24 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 13:31.34 | SpeedEvil | it's at the moment basically a dumb framebuffer |
| 13:31.38 | SpeedEvil | that's all the hardware can do |
| 13:31.59 | mdt | would it be possible to use directfb on the device? |
| 13:32.16 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it, nobodies written that yet |
| 13:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:32.37 | SpeedEvil | But, the CPUs integrated display is well explained in the datasheet |
| 13:32.51 | mdt | SpeedEvil, what do u think - would that be compicated? |
| 13:33.06 | SpeedEvil | mdt: the display controller is not complicated |
| 13:33.14 | SpeedEvil | It's really about the simplest it can be. |
| 13:33.38 | mdt | backround is, i am about writing a phone software. very, very simply. no x, no gtk. it uses directfb. |
| 13:33.54 | SpeedEvil | Just open an xterm, and use curses. |
| 13:34.07 | mdt | ? |
| 13:34.08 | SpeedEvil | Poke pavelm for some prototype source. |
| 13:34.09 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 13:34.24 | SpeedEvil | Text-mode GUI |
| 13:34.35 | mdt | no it's no text ui. |
| 13:35.23 | mdt | what do yo mean with Poke pavelm? |
| 13:35.26 | SpeedEvil | I don't really see the benefit over a simple X app. |
| 13:35.36 | mdt | it's instead of x11 |
| 13:35.38 | SpeedEvil | Pavelm has some text-mode source |
| 13:35.39 | anrp | less overhead, for one |
| 13:35.50 | mdt | what /is/ pavelm? |
| 13:35.57 | SpeedEvil | Pavel MAchek |
| 13:35.58 | anrp | thats probably a who |
| 13:36.13 | SpeedEvil | He's occasionally on here under the username pavelm |
| 13:36.20 | SpeedEvil | Personally. |
| 13:36.30 | SpeedEvil | I find the whole 'speed' thing bogus. |
| 13:36.41 | SpeedEvil | I used to use a P100 laptop. |
| 13:36.51 | SpeedEvil | With 640*480 screen. |
| 13:36.56 | ben_goodger | I had a P75 desktop... |
| 13:36.59 | SpeedEvil | It was quite fast enough to do everything. |
| 13:37.00 | ben_goodger | cost £1200 in 1995 |
| 13:37.32 | SpeedEvil | And that was with X. |
| 13:37.54 | SpeedEvil | You don't ahve to use GTK if you don't want to. |
| 13:38.01 | SpeedEvil | You can just use a native X11 app. |
| 13:38.04 | mdt | SpeedEvil, but no animations in any way as used today... |
| 13:38.18 | mdt | SpeedEvil, i don't like that idea on a phone |
| 13:38.35 | Stephmw | wha? |
| 13:38.53 | Stephmw | you don't like X11 on a phone, it's a tried and tested method |
| 13:38.56 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 13:39.12 | mdt | stefan_schmidt, maybe, but i try another aproach |
| 13:40.03 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
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| 13:41.16 | roh | mdt atm its a standard framebuffer driver with kdrive on it. |
| 13:41.45 | roh | mdt when you want to try directfb-gtk on it, have fun... and please make some benchmarks ;) |
| 13:41.56 | mdt | stefan_schmidt, i am playing around with the greenphone. the neo was not avaiable when i started. started with qtopia, but qtopia sucks. so i looked for other ways. directfb is very nice. |
| 13:42.15 | mdt | no i dont use gtk. i implemented a own graphic library |
| 13:42.22 | mmazur | ouch |
| 13:42.55 | roh | mdt the graphics accel in gta02 also will get fully opensource drivers which means you would have to code a directfb userspace driver for the accel, additional to the fbdev which we will provide |
| 13:43.09 | Stephmw | mdt: was it fun? |
| 13:43.20 | roh | mdt you mean a toolkit? directfb is a graphic lib |
| 13:43.21 | MagicFab | The " Openmoko goes lives" press release link at http://www.openmoko.com/press-index.html links to the html page itself, not to any press release |
| 13:43.36 | Fatal | btw, where are they shipped from? |
| 13:43.38 | mdt | stefan_schmidt, yes. i normaly don't like gui programming. this changed it |
| 13:43.58 | Stephmw | mdt: good :) no sense reinventing the wheel unless you're having fun |
| 13:43.58 | roh | MagicFab thats no error. |
| 13:44.00 | mdt | roh, if you like call it toolkit, yes. but very, very basic |
| 13:44.21 | roh | mdt why did you not take lite and extend that? |
| 13:44.34 | mdt | stefan_schmidt, i don't think one need a full blown tk on a phone |
| 13:44.52 | mdt | roh, yes, i did that i.e. for text entry |
| 13:44.56 | MagicFab | roh, I' d love to hear how not getting an actual press release is not an error ;) |
| 13:45.59 | *** join/#openmoko goodfoot (i=user@gateway/tor/x-6a903e36784644ce) |
| 13:46.12 | mdt | is there information on software architecture of open moko? |
| 13:46.22 | *** join/#openmoko noidd (n=red@thievery.criticalintegration.com) |
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| 13:46.26 | roh | MagicFab its just a link to make the design happy |
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| 13:46.41 | ben_goodger | eek |
| 13:46.44 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 13:46.54 | ben_goodger | where's debhelper when you need him? |
| 13:47.02 | bmidgley | blindcoder: we're back |
| 13:47.18 | roh | mdt there is a scetchy graphic here http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-04-software.html and a lot of info in the wiki |
| 13:47.20 | blindcoder | whoah, what a netsplit |
| 13:47.43 | roh | mdt what exactly do you want to know? |
| 13:48.13 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@86.154.5.165) |
| 13:49.25 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 13:49.32 | blindcoder | anyway, I've been playing with the qemu image and stuff, currently working on setting up a development environment |
| 13:49.54 | blindcoder | question: is it possible for someone only needing phone and sms capabilities to use the neo1973 as a day-to-day phone? |
| 13:49.55 | aloril | blindcoder: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:49.56 | mdt | as you may imagine i have the same problem when dropping qtopia. qtopia is a non-unix aproach. no deamons, everything in a big blob. i tried another aproach with some small daemons with a special function. now you have the problem of ipc. i played around with d-bus. how is openmoko implemented regarding this? |
| 13:50.09 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@bbclaptop.student.umd.edu) |
| 13:50.13 | blindcoder | gee it didn't really, unfortunately |
| 13:50.20 | switch3r | Hi there :) |
| 13:50.22 | anrp | afaik sms isn't implemented yet |
| 13:50.27 | anrp | so.. not yet |
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| 13:51.19 | blindcoder | anrp: yeah, I've read on the gsmd-devel list that it is being worked on, was hoping for someone from that list being here and could tell me if it'll be ready within - say - two weeks or so? |
| 13:51.23 | *** join/#openmoko ozzloy (n=ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy) |
| 13:51.28 | CM | blindcoder: It's barely possible to even call with it in the current state |
| 13:51.30 | blindcoder | (that's the time I give my current phone until it'll probably die) |
| 13:52.01 | blindcoder | CM: barely is enough for me, that means it works :-) |
| 13:52.12 | blindcoder | CM: I'm really not expecting much at the moment |
| 13:52.18 | CM | It's enough for me too :) |
| 13:52.40 | blindcoder | CM: but if I buy another phone now I fear I won't buy a neo anytime within two years |
| 13:52.59 | blindcoder | and since there is progress going on I'm sure it'll get better :) |
| 13:53.29 | switch3r | I'm in the same situation as you, blindcoder :) |
| 13:53.48 | switch3r | But I was asking myself on the security capabilities of the phone |
| 13:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E9C1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:54.02 | switch3r | sounds like the atheros chipset is ready for wep and wpa, but what about the battery ? |
| 13:54.03 | aloril | switch3r: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:54.08 | mdt | roh, another question is how about security? are there sandboxes for apps? is everythin run as root (as with qtopia) |
| 13:54.39 | CM | ben_goodger: This might become available for OpenMoko, if the mailinglist is anything to go by: http://www.navigon.com/site/us/en |
| 13:54.42 | SpeedEvil | mdt: there is no reason you couldn't run arbitrary apps in chroot. |
| 13:54.44 | switch3r | why everything should run as root ? |
| 13:54.57 | SpeedEvil | mdt: as unprivelidged users, ... |
| 13:55.02 | CM | mdt: Currently everything is root |
| 13:55.08 | mdt | switch3r, qtopia does so... :( |
| 13:55.13 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: you're really to be found _anywhere_ on this network, aren't you? :) |
| 13:55.19 | switch3r | for conveniance reason or design choice ? |
| 13:55.39 | SpeedEvil | blindcoder: No :) Just select places. I'm only in 7 channels ATM. |
| 13:55.46 | mdt | switch3r, qtopia starts to use lids but hasn't right now |
| 13:55.58 | ben_goodger | CM: thanks |
| 13:56.13 | SpeedEvil | I'd hope that security gets better. |
| 13:56.21 | CM | Commercial app, but it seems nice |
| 13:56.35 | SpeedEvil | I'd like it in such a state that I can give my employee a phone, and they can't crack it. |
| 13:56.54 | switch3r | there's nothing on the FAQ about security, I just discovered the phone today and I searching for informations on that aspect of the project.... |
| 13:57.08 | SpeedEvil | Basically none at the moment. |
| 13:57.14 | ben_goodger | heh, let's port sabayon to openmoko.. |
| 13:57.34 | switch3r | hu :( |
| 13:57.36 | mmazur | I'd go with kde. |
| 13:57.42 | SpeedEvil | Security, SMS, ... all are still needing implemented. |
| 13:58.15 | switch3r | That not a really good news, regarding the fact that security is better when implemented from the root, but I'll take a look to the framework |
| 13:58.23 | switch3r | perhaps I can help ;) |
| 13:58.44 | *** join/#openmoko goodfoot (i=user@gateway/tor/x-dd8b987b68a76420) |
| 13:58.46 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps. |
| 13:59.19 | ben_goodger | is there going to be theming support? |
| 13:59.24 | ben_goodger | I can't stand the current look |
| 13:59.38 | ben_goodger | perhaps some tango icons with clearlooks... |
| 13:59.45 | CM | ben_goodger: Some, but it's limited... |
| 13:59.46 | drath_ | heh, guess in it's current state the software has worse problems than its look ;) |
| 13:59.53 | Kensan | switch3r, what's your particular interest/focus? |
| 13:59.56 | ben_goodger | indeed |
| 14:00.17 | CM | ben_goodger: mickeyl has complained a lot about how gtk handles themes |
| 14:00.35 | CM | As have abock and other gnome people lately. |
| 14:00.42 | switch3r | Kensan -> mostly crypto |
| 14:01.12 | blindcoder | heh, not just the wiki it seems |
| 14:01.18 | Stephmw | CM: the US must be waking up |
| 14:01.23 | blindcoder | the mailinglist currently refuses to send me any mails since around noon |
| 14:01.25 | CM | Exactly |
| 14:01.33 | Kensan | switch3r: can you elaborate a bit? My interests lie in the same field. |
| 14:01.44 | zecke | I can complain about Gtk Themes and Gtk's drawing in general :) |
| 14:01.49 | blindcoder | cryptofon on the neo! :-) |
| 14:02.12 | Elrond | I guess, it's already know, that bugzilla is bug'd? |
| 14:02.30 | Fatal | wish my collegue could decide soon so I can place my order, heh |
| 14:02.43 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 14:03.17 | switch3r | kensan, well the problem with embedded security is usually relaying in power capabilities... if you use WPA with your PDA, for example, you'll empty your batterie in less than one hour |
| 14:03.17 | ewanm89_laptop | Fatal: Give him a time limit. |
| 14:03.31 | switch3r | that's why security is so low in the embedded world |
| 14:03.47 | switch3r | and with an open project like openmoko, i've hoped that perhaps it will improve that |
| 14:04.03 | switch3r | modifying algorithms and their implementations, for examples |
| 14:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@162-117-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 14:04.17 | switch3r | but it sounds like the project it still a bit young for that ;) |
| 14:05.02 | switch3r | what could be interesting to me is a cyphered partition to store personnal docs and a crypto capability for GSM and WiFi |
| 14:05.24 | blindcoder | switch3r: why not store the stuff on a dm-crypted sd card? |
| 14:05.29 | blindcoder | switch3r: that sounds entirely doable to me |
| 14:05.37 | Kensan | switch3r: so your focus is mainly on Wifi? |
| 14:05.38 | CM | zecke: Hehe.. I can imagine that ;) |
| 14:06.16 | blindcoder | push comes to shove I can still use the neo as a buffed-up pda :-) |
| 14:06.26 | MagicFab | http://www.fabianrodriguez.com/blog/archives/2007/07/09/openmoko-phone-now-shipping-new-web-site-launched/ |
| 14:06.34 | switch3r | yeah, I've figured it should be possible when I saw that openmoko is based on a 2.6 kernel, but I'm using dm-crypt on my laptop and, trust me, it cost a lot of power |
| 14:06.35 | MagicFab | should shortly show up on Ubuntu Planet |
| 14:06.35 | Kensan | blindcoder: afaik with jffs2 it's not straightforward as it will have negative effects on wear-leveling etc. |
| 14:06.52 | mmazur | switch3r, you're dmcrypting everything? |
| 14:06.55 | mmazur | switch3r, or just /home? |
| 14:07.05 | switch3r | nono, just /home |
| 14:07.08 | blindcoder | switch3r: same on my laptop, all of / |
| 14:07.13 | blindcoder | switch3r: well, all but /boot |
| 14:07.19 | mmazur | switch3r, how much power does it use? |
| 14:07.33 | blindcoder | Kensan: hmm, but doesn't dmcrypt just create a new block device? |
| 14:08.13 | Kensan | blindcoder: I read some thread about it on lkml. It's not that straightforward. |
| 14:08.18 | switch3r | I can't answer very precisely, cost my laptop is old and I'm always plugged, but it makes a difference on the temperature (~+ 10°F ) |
| 14:08.18 | blindcoder | Kensan: I see |
| 14:08.21 | Fatal | ewanm89_laptop: mm :) should do that |
| 14:08.33 | blindcoder | Kensan: well, just put an ext2 on the sd card |
| 14:09.05 | Kensan | blindcoder: that all works, but I think you really want wear-leveling... |
| 14:09.10 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 14:09.30 | blindcoder | Kensan: I never heard the term wear-leveling before... |
| 14:09.39 | switch3r | me too..... |
| 14:10.29 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 14:10.41 | switch3r | Wear levelling (also written wear leveling) is a technique[1] for prolonging the service life of some kinds of erasable computer storage media, such as flash memory |
| 14:10.45 | switch3r | thks wikipedia ;) |
| 14:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko wakejagr (i=cael@unaffiliated/wakejagr) |
| 14:11.07 | blindcoder | okay, I think I know what it means and understand why I want it :-) |
| 14:11.11 | Kensan | blindcoder, switch3r: here's that thread from lkml: http://lkml.org/lkml/2007/3/6/137 |
| 14:11.35 | blindcoder | since the memory type in sd cards only has a limited number of 'write' cycles |
| 14:11.40 | switch3r | arranging the data to preserve the hardware |
| 14:11.52 | drath | isn't SD supposed to do that already? |
| 14:12.20 | SpeedEvil | It's more a 'write whole block thing' when one byte has changed. |
| 14:12.28 | SpeedEvil | That impacts a little negatively. |
| 14:12.31 | SpeedEvil | In practice. |
| 14:12.43 | blindcoder | yeah |
| 14:12.54 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't matter, as a hundred thousand writes over a million blocks takes a _long_ time. |
| 14:13.25 | blindcoder | ah well, just do what I do: don't save sensitive information on a mobile phone |
| 14:13.28 | SpeedEvil | over per blobk |
| 14:13.32 | blindcoder | I've lost enough phones to know why :-) |
| 14:13.41 | SpeedEvil | Done right, it could be OK. |
| 14:13.49 | switch3r | Oops 10:13am, I have to go to work :p see you guys, and thanks for the informations ;) |
| 14:14.09 | blindcoder | heh, I need to leave work :-) |
| 14:14.14 | SpeedEvil | DM-crypt, and secured boot-flash |
| 14:14.23 | SpeedEvil | so that it can't be trojaned. |
| 14:14.32 | Kensan | switch3r, blindman: here you might find some more info: http://www.inf.u-szeged.hu/jffs2/compression.php |
| 14:14.36 | blindcoder | then sleep over and if I still want the neo tomorrow morning, I'll order :-) |
| 14:14.48 | blindcoder | SpeedEvil: which leaves the problem of passphrase entering :-) |
| 14:14.57 | blindcoder | Kensan: thanks, I'll have a look |
| 14:14.58 | SpeedEvil | blindcoder: True. |
| 14:15.02 | blindcoder | until then, see you later |
| 14:15.04 | SpeedEvil | wave |
| 14:16.13 | mmazur | Having the contacts encrypted sounds like a good idea. |
| 14:16.46 | SpeedEvil | There are a couple of options. |
| 14:16.53 | mmazur | yup |
| 14:17.05 | SpeedEvil | well - hundreds to be probably more accurate :) |
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| 14:19.33 | sixfeet | hää? |
| 14:20.18 | goodfoot | Is it possible to connect a keyboard to neo? |
| 14:20.37 | CM | goodfoot: Bluetooth would probably be the easiest |
| 14:20.38 | zecke | a bluetooth one? |
| 14:20.52 | goodfoot | yes. |
| 14:21.23 | oelewapperke | can you insert it into the usb port? |
| 14:21.29 | oelewapperke | ie is the port both host and device ? |
| 14:21.51 | CM | oelewapperke: It's both, but it's unpowered |
| 14:22.04 | mjr | yeah, you'd need external power |
| 14:22.07 | mjr | bt should be easy |
| 14:22.09 | oelewapperke | so it won't run a keyboard without a powered hub ? |
| 14:22.50 | SpeedEvil | And the wiki's died. |
| 14:23.17 | mjr | it won't |
| 14:23.20 | mjr | or a power injector |
| 14:23.27 | SpeedEvil | Or not quite |
| 14:24.54 | jeddy3 | would it be possible with some kind of simple usb cable/battery-dongle to powerize the usb? =) |
| 14:24.59 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 14:25.04 | SpeedEvil | It's a cable and a source of 5V |
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| 14:28.29 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=daniel@pd95b5e66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:30.21 | zecke | hehe |
| 14:30.32 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.87) |
| 14:30.33 | zecke | yeah, users are here but where are devs :} |
| 14:31.10 | cheesy | have to try something useless :) |
| 14:31.12 | SpeedEvil | Just deleted a software radio entry on the wiki - smaller faster, lower power, supports all standards. |
| 14:31.13 | cheesy | counter |
| 14:31.13 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, 2 days 21:28:46 (9.895±3.0 days) (1723;246) |
| 14:31.13 | weez | http://www.amazon.com/Cyberpower-CP-H420MP-USB-Hub-Battery-Powered/dp/B0002UQALQ |
| 14:31.15 | SpeedEvil | Umm - no. |
| 14:31.21 | hrw | zecke: on openmoko-devel? rather not |
| 14:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 14:31.29 | weez | there is a link to throw out when ppl ask about a keyboard |
| 14:32.30 | SpeedEvil | Sigh - deleted it, now can't add back as the wiki has DiEd! |
| 14:32.54 | SpeedEvil | It really needed to be made /. proof |
| 14:33.12 | weez | jeddy3: did you see the link i posted above? |
| 14:33.34 | jeddy3 | weez, yes, sweet |
| 14:33.51 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:35.49 | ScaredyCat | wiki seems alive here SpeedEvil, just v v sloowoowowowowowowo |
| 14:36.31 | goodfoot | So my idea is to run emacs on neo with a bluetooth keyboard. |
| 14:37.36 | mmazur | I'd go with qemu and windows :) |
| 14:38.36 | goodfoot | Its got to be possible, Someone apparently got supertux to run. |
| 14:38.39 | goodfoot | on it. |
| 14:39.42 | mmazur | Well, playing setlers or something sounds plausible. |
| 14:39.50 | mmazur | The touchscreen 'n stuff. |
| 14:40.02 | mmazur | Or mortal kombat with the accelometeres. |
| 14:40.14 | SpeedEvil | No accels till Oct |
| 14:40.34 | mmazur | I know. |
| 14:40.50 | SpeedEvil | Well - apart from selected units. |
| 14:41.04 | weez | SpeedEvil: I didn't though, so good to know |
| 14:42.52 | *** join/#openmoko MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) |
| 14:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej_ (n=alex@dyn1242-207.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
| 14:52.18 | *** join/#openmoko maxauthority (n=maxautho@193.170.48.242) |
| 14:52.45 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 14:55.22 | Sup3rkiddo | lol..openmoko.com is down? |
| 14:55.35 | Sup3rkiddo | no it aint..never mind |
| 14:55.36 | roh | Sup3rkiddo i'm working on it |
| 14:55.52 | Sup3rkiddo | roh, oh ok.. |
| 14:56.36 | Stephmw | roh: how's the load? |
| 14:57.34 | *** join/#openmoko arw (i=root@gateway/tor/x-70e81965ba17b9ec) |
| 14:59.34 | roh | Stephmw i just switched from apache to lighttpd on port 80 |
| 15:00.53 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 15:01.52 | *** join/#openmoko fresko1 (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 15:01.55 | *** part/#openmoko fresko1 (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 15:01.56 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 15:04.06 | maxauthority | haha, this ad is so great: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DCQ7dmGuAU8 - far better than any iphone ad |
| 15:04.06 | aloril | maxauthority: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:05.12 | tuukkah | "question" =) |
| 15:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko jcazor (n=juan62@185.145.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 15:05.32 | don-o | counter |
| 15:05.32 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, 2 days 20:54:27 (9.871±3.0 days) (1724;246) |
| 15:06.27 | *** join/#openmoko goodfoot (i=user@gateway/tor/x-8d87520560162157) |
| 15:08.15 | andylockran | I'm having problems compiling the mokoMakeFile.. it hangs at stamps/openembedded with a http peer timeout.. anyone else havintg these issues? |
| 15:10.03 | *** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) |
| 15:10.56 | Stephmw | roh: some assets aren't loading on .com (but no 404s that I can see) |
| 15:11.03 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@86.155.123.40) |
| 15:11.22 | *** join/#openmoko switch3r (n=switch3r@128.8.37.122) |
| 15:12.16 | Basheri | seems fine for me :O |
| 15:13.03 | Kensan | andylockran: can you provide some debug output? |
| 15:13.17 | xkr47 | jos lighttpd is nice |
| 15:13.29 | xkr47 | s/jos // |
| 15:13.51 | tuukkah | now apt is apt |
| 15:14.12 | tuukkah | s/i/wa/ |
| 15:14.25 | andylockran | [ -d stamps ] || mkdir stamps |
| 15:14.25 | andylockran | touch stamps/openembedded |
| 15:14.25 | andylockran | [ -e stamps/openmoko ] || \ ( svn co -r HEAD http://svn.openmoko.org/ openmoko ) |
| 15:14.27 | andylockran | svn: Caught signal |
| 15:14.30 | andylockran | make: *** [setup-openmoko] Error 1 |
| 15:14.33 | tuukkah | s/\//#/ |
| 15:15.33 | galexande | yay, i got to a | /media/3/moko/build/tmp/cross/bin/arm-linux-as: unrecognized option `-Qy' |
| 15:15.35 | andylockran | it keeps going up and down for me |
| 15:15.40 | galexande | i'd give anything for an http timeout by comparison :) |
| 15:15.59 | andylockran | working now |
| 15:16.15 | roh | Stephmw ram is short atm.. |
| 15:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@dyn1242-207.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
| 15:16.48 | andylockran | roh: there are known issues with the svn repo now then? |
| 15:17.39 | *** part/#openmoko mdt (n=mdt@littlelun.emdete.de) |
| 15:17.40 | roh | andylockran known issues? in what form? |
| 15:17.56 | Kensan | andylockran: is svn working for other repositories? Maybe it's being blocked. |
| 15:18.18 | andylockran | svn: REPORT request failed on '/!svn/vcc/default' |
| 15:18.18 | andylockran | svn: REPORT of '/!svn/vcc/default': 200 OK (http://svn.openmoko.org) |
| 15:18.18 | andylockran | make: *** [setup-openmoko] Error 1 |
| 15:18.22 | andylockran | that's my latest error |
| 15:18.35 | andylockran | everytime I rerun make setup I get different error outputs.. |
| 15:18.57 | galexande | oh i'm lucky i'm way past make setup :) |
| 15:19.11 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 15:19.19 | juri_ | i'm running low on cash; if i buy the base, i can at a later date (later this week) buy the rest of the addons for the "advanced" setup, right? |
| 15:19.26 | ScaredyCat | that's not just make setup galexande |
| 15:19.53 | galexande | juri, that's not offered on the store yet. if it's going to be that close, i'd wait because there is going to be at least a week's delay shipping them as well |
| 15:19.56 | ScaredyCat | you get the same for a make openmoko-devel-image |
| 15:20.15 | galexande | well, *i* get an arm-linux-as -Qy error for openmoko-devel-image :) |
| 15:20.32 | ScaredyCat | that's because you're special. |
| 15:20.39 | *** join/#openmoko juco (n=vickeryj@12.38.10.116) |
| 15:20.44 | galexande | this is the longest command i've ever seen a makefile generate |
| 15:20.54 | *** join/#openmoko _brandon_ (n=cafebabe@170.177.6.185) |
| 15:21.01 | andylockran | it's a huge make isn't it? |
| 15:21.11 | juri_ | galex: how long until these things are expected to sell out tho? |
| 15:21.19 | ScaredyCat | monster, i believe, is the correct term :) |
| 15:21.23 | SpeedEvil | juri_: tomorrow or today |
| 15:21.31 | SpeedEvil | juri_: however, a new batch will be along soon |
| 15:21.37 | SpeedEvil | a week or two |
| 15:21.48 | juri_ | so, i'll buy my base now, and an advanced later. :) |
| 15:21.49 | *** part/#openmoko _brandon_ (n=cafebabe@170.177.6.185) |
| 15:21.53 | galexande | it's like a 35 line command, but it is prefixed with an environment variable setting which stores the entire command within an env var, or something similar |
| 15:22.07 | SpeedEvil | It'll likely be a week or so till the first delivery IMO |
| 15:22.41 | juri_ | i'm patient. just worried about supply. :) |
| 15:23.43 | SpeedEvil | They will carry on making htem |
| 15:23.54 | SpeedEvil | and ramp up volume if sales carry on increasing. |
| 15:23.59 | *** join/#openmoko goodfoot (i=user@gateway/tor/x-51dc59ae4b8877ab) |
| 15:27.08 | *** join/#openmoko leonel (n=leonel@189.155.99.191) |
| 15:27.11 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 15:27.16 | *** join/#openmoko MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) |
| 15:27.22 | leonel | hello ! |
| 15:27.39 | dietricha | anyone else getting a blank page when trying to submit the form to buy a neo? |
| 15:27.41 | dietricha | known issue? |
| 15:27.44 | leonel | the openmoko has wifi ? or don't have ? |
| 15:27.46 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 15:27.55 | andylockran | leonel: nto til october... |
| 15:28.16 | leonel | andylockran: in october another version ? or in the same ? |
| 15:29.45 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.47.141) |
| 15:29.50 | juri_ | die: yepyep. |
| 15:31.12 | Sufflope | I'm also getting this blank page |
| 15:31.34 | Sufflope | it's quite frustrating after more than 6 months spent waiting |
| 15:32.53 | andylockran | leonel: the end user version is coming in october... the current version is so that developers get a chance to get to know the UI and start developing the apps that the end users will use |
| 15:33.51 | leonel | GREAT ! |
| 15:34.01 | roh | dietricha i'm working on getting it back up again |
| 15:34.21 | SpeedEvil | roh: I assume the wiki going down is to be expected? |
| 15:34.24 | galexande | dietrich, for your "state", make sure it is two uppercase letters |
| 15:34.57 | roh | SpeedEvil load issues.. same physical host |
| 15:35.24 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. T'd have been nice to have a static copy of the wiki somewhere with lots of bandwidth. |
| 15:35.50 | galexande | i'm sure whoever got you slashdotted apologizes |
| 15:35.53 | ynezz | ./ phase 2 |
| 15:36.47 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADA20.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:36.48 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.50.223) |
| 15:36.49 | SpeedEvil | I'm not saying that - I'm saying that it should have been /. resistant. Oh well. |
| 15:37.24 | SpeedEvil | A completely static copy - all the edit/special links are broken |
| 15:37.39 | galexande | speed, i agree that every website should be able to withstand slashdot, but sometimes it just doesn't matter |
| 15:37.53 | galexande | they're not intending to make their big money off of this release |
| 15:38.00 | SpeedEvil | IMO - in this case, it matters somewhat to get the word out. |
| 15:38.19 | SpeedEvil | A website that falls over doesn't help much. |
| 15:38.25 | andylockran | no, it may have been a bit premature to have such wide publicity at such an early stage... |
| 15:38.26 | galexande | *shrug* i think the people who feel affection for this idea know it and will not be deterred |
| 15:38.55 | SpeedEvil | Indeed, it's not only them that we care about - but also the ones that may buy in 'October'. |
| 15:39.24 | galexande | yeah but hype won't improve the product, i'm looking at this just as an open source exercise |
| 15:39.40 | SpeedEvil | Hype will improve the product, if it gets more devs. |
| 15:39.53 | galexande | heh |
| 15:41.05 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L3bbd.l.pppool.de) |
| 15:41.28 | orospakr | I wonder if anyone's tried Gnuboy on the Neo yet. :) |
| 15:41.40 | orospakr | I guess it would need on screen buttons. |
| 15:42.25 | Stephmw | orospakr: can you imagine your 8yr old mashing the on-screen buttons to get Mario to jump? |
| 15:42.44 | StylusEater_Work | are any developers open to a podcast interview? |
| 15:42.45 | galexande | yeah, no buttons and no multitouch is going to be a real hindrance for games |
| 15:42.52 | orospakr | Stephmw: heh. |
| 15:43.02 | orospakr | galexande: yeah, multitouch is an issue for games that require button combos. |
| 15:43.05 | StylusEater_Work | wcsb.org |
| 15:43.14 | orospakr | although |
| 15:43.15 | StylusEater_Work | it's the college radio I'm part of |
| 15:43.16 | orospakr | I wonder. |
| 15:43.48 | Viko | Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe better work... |
| 15:43.48 | orospakr | the style of touchscreen in the neo just averages out two points of pressure, and the "click" happens somewhere between the two points. |
| 15:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko jthomas (n=eljefe@hotel.sierrabravo.net) |
| 15:44.12 | orospakr | I wonder if it would be possible to design an on screen game pad that took advantage of that and "fakes" multitouch enough for button combos to work. |
| 15:44.19 | galexande | hahahahah oro i was thinking exactly that |
| 15:44.24 | orospakr | :D |
| 15:44.43 | galexande | you could have the d-pad in a little circle that you hold your stylus in when you are moving your character about |
| 15:44.52 | galexande | and when you need to fire, you touch outside the d-pad, enough to drag the center point outside of the circle |
| 15:44.59 | orospakr | oh shit. |
| 15:45.02 | orospakr | that's genius! |
| 15:45.17 | galexande | so you just stop moving right at the moment you fire, but otherwise it is fine |
| 15:45.28 | galexande | but i still don't know what to do about strafing |
| 15:45.34 | galexande | if i can't circle-strafe, it's not doom |
| 15:45.52 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:45.55 | orospakr | galexande: I was thinking more along the lines of doing what old style (NES and Genesis) gamepads could do. |
| 15:46.09 | orospakr | if you place your A and B buttons far apart enough vertically, that would work too. |
| 15:46.17 | galexande | heh yeah |
| 15:46.27 | galexande | i'm thinking doom and you're thinking ...streetfighter? |
| 15:46.38 | *** join/#openmoko unwired (n=aglienke@cm016.cablenet.de) |
| 15:46.54 | orospakr | yeah, as soon as I get my Neo I might try porting Gnuboy and making a nice on-screen pad for it. |
| 15:47.12 | Stephmw | galexande: see if you can work those (forthcoming) accelerometers into the controls :) |
| 15:47.24 | orospakr | Stephmw: oh wow, I forgot about those. :) |
| 15:47.31 | galexande | stephen, yeah that would just do it |
| 15:47.47 | galexande | you could use any number of crazy gestures for fire and strafe |
| 15:48.00 | galexande | well, that sucks, why'd i buy the one without the accelerometers :) |
| 15:48.01 | orospakr | galexande: I wouldn't use the stylus for the directional pad, though. I would just make it big enough for a finger. |
| 15:48.12 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: would the accelerometers be sensitive enough to detect a sharp 1cm pulse in a direction? |
| 15:48.24 | galexande | oro, yeah for sure, ever since i heard the stylus doesn't fit in the phone, i have tried to avoid it as a distraction |
| 15:48.31 | galexande | anything good will have to be doable with, at worst, a fingernail |
| 15:48.40 | orospakr | out of curiosity, does anyone know if OpenMoko will eventually include a MIDP JVM for compatibility with all the boring java games out there? |
| 15:48.44 | galexande | stephen, probably, accelerometers are great |
| 15:48.51 | Stephmw | orospakr: yes, guaranteed |
| 15:49.04 | Stephmw | orospakr: ... there's already been interest |
| 15:49.07 | orospakr | Stephmw: yeah, it seems pretty much a must these days. |
| 15:49.17 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gopi@server1.mdsamerica.com) |
| 15:49.17 | orospakr | even though I wouldn't touch it personally. |
| 15:49.22 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeeti2 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 15:49.31 | Stephmw | orospakr: shame, the games are good :) |
| 15:49.37 | rgl | what is AGPS? is that a GPS receiver brand? |
| 15:49.38 | galexande | does openmoko have something like ipkg? |
| 15:49.45 | orospakr | galexande: yes. |
| 15:49.47 | galexande | rgl, it's just gps with a shortcut to make it faster |
| 15:49.49 | orospakr | ipkg is there, in fact. |
| 15:49.53 | galexande | yay |
| 15:49.54 | orospakr | galexande: shortcut? |
| 15:50.04 | orospakr | galexande: look up OpenEmbedded. |
| 15:50.19 | anrp | gps needs precise satellite location information, which is transmitted through gps on a 30 second cycle |
| 15:50.27 | anrp | which causes most standalone receivers to have >30sec cold start |
| 15:50.28 | mrfeeti2 | is there any opensource voice recognition software? |
| 15:50.35 | wonderblood | rgl: agps = Assisted Global Positioning System |
| 15:50.35 | anrp | agps is jus downloading that info from anothe rsource (faster) |
| 15:50.42 | SpeedEvil | It's not quite that simple. |
| 15:50.42 | galexande | there's two bits of data and one of them is only every 12.5 minutes |
| 15:50.49 | rgl | ah. thx guys :D |
| 15:50.52 | galexande | but if you leave gps on when it's in the cradle, you can download that from the satellites for free |
| 15:50.59 | orospakr | anrp: I suppose the chip is capable of doing the cold start method, as well? |
| 15:51.02 | anrp | of course |
| 15:51.03 | galexande | orospakr, is openembedded the child of familiar? |
| 15:51.09 | galexande | or intimate? |
| 15:51.18 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 15:51.30 | SpeedEvil | I wrote this up neatly on the wiki. |
| 15:51.39 | orospakr | galexande: I'm not sure of all the details. |
| 15:51.41 | galexande | speed, i am just repeating what you wrote on the wiki :) |
| 15:51.42 | SpeedEvil | The GPS chip says it can get a position in under 1s |
| 15:51.44 | SpeedEvil | at 5m |
| 15:51.51 | anrp | with assistance or warm start |
| 15:51.53 | *** join/#openmoko tunecel (n=root@86.59.65.236) |
| 15:51.54 | anrp | it can't from cold |
| 15:52.12 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 15:52.16 | anrp | if it has precise timing available it can do fast cold start |
| 15:52.21 | anrp | does the gsm chipset provide it? |
| 15:52.25 | orospakr | hm, is leaving the GPS on during phone standby considered reasonable? or is it only powered up on demand? |
| 15:52.33 | SpeedEvil | anrp: seperate chip |
| 15:52.34 | galexande | anrp, you would presumably have to use gprs to download the assistance from somewhere else |
| 15:52.37 | galexande | so you are best waiting to get it from the gps |
| 15:52.44 | SpeedEvil | orospakr: there are two settings for the GPS. |
| 15:52.45 | galexande | unless you have unlimited data :) |
| 15:52.48 | anrp | its a very small amount of info |
| 15:52.48 | SpeedEvil | orospakr: well - three. |
| 15:52.51 | anrp | gprs would likely be faster |
| 15:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 15:53.00 | SpeedEvil | Well - four |
| 15:53.02 | SpeedEvil | Off |
| 15:53.04 | galexande | the phone needs to have high-level settings like that "i have unlimited data on: bluetooth, wifi, and/or gprs" |
| 15:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A54F0C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:53.24 | SpeedEvil | Low frequency clock only active. This is low power and has reasonable accuracy. |
| 15:53.31 | anrp | ephermis is only 50bps * 30s = 1500 bits |
| 15:53.42 | orospakr | galexande: ooh, global settings honoured by multiple features. |
| 15:53.46 | orospakr | that would be nice. |
| 15:53.48 | SpeedEvil | High frequency clock active - this is relatively high power - this is the best clock it has. |
| 15:53.52 | SpeedEvil | And active |
| 15:54.05 | anrp | so 2 of 4 are warm start, and 1 is cold |
| 15:54.07 | anrp | 1 is active |
| 15:54.08 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.50.223) |
| 15:54.13 | *** part/#openmoko unwired (n=aglienke@cm016.cablenet.de) |
| 15:54.18 | galexande | yeoah so in your map application, you can just tell it "i want to download (always), (only when i have unlimited bandwidth), (ask me) |
| 15:54.35 | galexande | otherwise it works from cache |
| 15:54.36 | anrp | which are you talking about? maps? |
| 15:54.51 | SpeedEvil | To get a position within 1s probably requires the low-frequency clock - or some other time source - and an idea of the time to within +-0.5ms |
| 15:54.55 | galexande | i want to write a map application, i'm just trying to dream up how to make the integration good ;) |
| 15:55.00 | anrp | ah D: |
| 15:55.01 | SpeedEvil | +-0.3 or so |
| 15:55.09 | anrp | yes... precise timing |
| 15:55.10 | SpeedEvil | So 5 mins or so. |
| 15:55.22 | alex-weej | Neo 1973 only has USB 1.1? :( |
| 15:55.30 | SpeedEvil | alex-weej: yes |
| 15:55.31 | wonderblood | jes |
| 15:55.37 | anrp | does the gps use a 32.768khz crystal for the low power standby? |
| 15:55.38 | alex-weej | how come? |
| 15:55.47 | wonderblood | chipset |
| 15:55.47 | anrp | and the full speed crystal for high power standby? |
| 15:55.54 | SpeedEvil | anrp: yes - IIRC |
| 15:55.54 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178093075.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:56.04 | galexande | alex, the s3c2410 or whatever integrated chip they use doesn't have usb 2.0 |
| 15:56.13 | galexande | but it has almost *everything* else so it's a good design tradeoff |
| 15:56.18 | alex-weej | galexande: i see. |
| 15:56.21 | anrp | and gta02 is even better D: |
| 15:56.24 | anrp | more gooder! |
| 15:56.27 | alex-weej | galexande: shame it's just so slow |
| 15:56.37 | galexande | alex, i'm gonna live with the bluetooth and not kid myself about speed :) |
| 15:56.38 | SpeedEvil | anrp: the full speed crystal is the best quality available (cheaply) it's used as a reference locally to time the satellites against. The 32Khz crystal is simply used to keep time. |
| 15:56.57 | alex-weej | galexande: what about transferring music and stuff? |
| 15:57.02 | galexande | alex, batch mode |
| 15:57.08 | anrp | right, but the high power standby mode may keep it engaged to keep a time available that's accurate for longer |
| 15:57.11 | anrp | i think? |
| 15:57.12 | alex-weej | galexande: que? |
| 15:57.20 | galexande | i'll just copy shit while i sleep |
| 15:57.21 | SpeedEvil | anrp: I think so. |
| 15:57.25 | juri_ | so, still no resolution to the flooded order page? :) |
| 15:57.31 | ruoso | does anyone has any info on the status of the site? |
| 15:57.33 | galexande | i used to have the newspaper downloaded to my palmtop every morning, that was pretty cool |
| 15:57.36 | juri_ | (white page) |
| 15:57.42 | SpeedEvil | anrp: the chipset is unfortunately not properly documented. |
| 15:57.48 | anrp | surprise :/ few are |
| 15:57.50 | galexande | juri, your "state" needs to be two uppercase letters |
| 15:57.52 | ruoso | I'm trying to place an order, but without success |
| 15:58.08 | SpeedEvil | anrp: werll - there is an NDA, and a 2 page sheet. Fortunately, strace + ... |
| 15:58.17 | galexande | heh speed are you the one that requested the strace |
| 15:58.28 | anrp | specially since you have the dumb IF frontend, instead of a fully integrated module |
| 15:58.30 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 15:58.30 | galexande | gps would be greek to me, if i found the numbers i wouldn't know what they mean |
| 15:58.33 | SpeedEvil | galexande: maybe |
| 15:58.56 | anrp | cheaper, lower power... but involves closed code |
| 15:59.10 | alex-weej | does it have 802.11b/g? |
| 15:59.12 | SpeedEvil | anrp: in practice. |
| 15:59.21 | galexande | alex, gta02 will in several months |
| 15:59.27 | alex-weej | galexande: what's gta02? |
| 15:59.31 | SpeedEvil | anrp: there is a closed source driver that can be put in a chroot |
| 15:59.31 | alex-weej | galexande: this interests me... :D |
| 15:59.41 | galexande | alex, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-June/000013.html |
| 15:59.44 | SpeedEvil | alex-weej: no |
| 16:00.03 | alex-weej | oh btw have you guys seen that new T-Mobile product that automatically switches you between 802.11g and GSM when making calls? |
| 16:00.13 | SpeedEvil | And the lack of the wiki makes the lack of 'This is not a functioning phone' more vital. |
| 16:00.19 | anrp | getting PVT from phase info is essentially the core part of gps, so reimplementing it is unlikely to be trivial... |
| 16:00.21 | galexande | heh speed and how |
| 16:00.23 | SpeedEvil | alex-weej: it's not that simple. |
| 16:00.23 | woglinde | alex-weej the new htc device? |
| 16:00.31 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:00.34 | anrp | and also probably why it's closed |
| 16:00.47 | alex-weej | SpeedEvil: it's not as simple as what? |
| 16:00.49 | SpeedEvil | anrp: that part is in fact trivial. |
| 16:00.52 | alex-weej | woglinde: htc? |
| 16:00.58 | anrp | hm? |
| 16:01.04 | wonderblood | is there a standby function - like a clock? |
| 16:01.04 | *** join/#openmoko astinus-work (n=alex@gentoo/developer/astinus) |
| 16:01.20 | SpeedEvil | alex-weej: T-mobile have their own protocol which is not public, and you have to be on t-mobile network |
| 16:01.24 | woglinde | alex-weej all phones dont came from vendors not from providers |
| 16:01.26 | galexande | hmmm, so, i picked the wrong instant in time to try to determine what s3c chip is in the openmoko |
| 16:01.28 | galexande | er neo |
| 16:01.33 | alex-weej | SpeedEvil: i know that, but the idea is brilliant |
| 16:01.36 | miip_ | alex-weej: you mean the TC300? |
| 16:01.36 | anrp | s3c2410 |
| 16:01.37 | anrp | ? |
| 16:01.39 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 16:01.49 | galexande | is it the 2410? i just pulled that out of my butt before |
| 16:01.49 | SpeedEvil | ga/window size 20 |
| 16:01.49 | anrp | -26 |
| 16:02.05 | alex-weej | if only it could be standardised |
| 16:02.09 | anrp | yes, 01bv4 is |
| 16:02.10 | SpeedEvil | galexande: something in that family. |
| 16:02.12 | galexande | thanks anrp |
| 16:02.29 | anrp | samsung's site has gone strange, i was unable to get the datasheet |
| 16:02.36 | anrp | i think it might have been broken on safari |
| 16:02.44 | galexande | we'll see how it works in lynx :) |
| 16:02.48 | anrp | that is .. |
| 16:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 16:03.24 | galexande | i should develop a touchscreen UI for lynx |
| 16:03.33 | galexande | god, why doesn't anyone else come up with these brilliant ideas :) |
| 16:03.35 | anrp | yeah there's some stupid navigation stuff on samsung's website |
| 16:03.40 | anrp | actually, links works with gpm |
| 16:03.45 | anrp | i think you can link gpm to a ts |
| 16:03.54 | galexande | hahahaha yeah, you can make gpm read from X, which reads from the ts |
| 16:04.05 | woglinde | *g* |
| 16:04.05 | galexande | or maybe you can make X read from gpm, one way or the other |
| 16:04.17 | anrp | and have 3 hacks stacked on top of each other! yay! |
| 16:04.53 | unknown_lamer | galexande: just run w3m in an xterm |
| 16:05.10 | galexande | i don't like w3m or links, i like lynx :) |
| 16:05.14 | *** join/#openmoko bhima_ (n=gopi@server1.mdsamerica.com) |
| 16:05.22 | galexande | i'll just use an onscreen keyboard to interact with it :) |
| 16:05.36 | unknown_lamer | yank the xterm mouse support from w3m and port it to lynx then ;-) |
| 16:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko empty_min1 (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:06.37 | galexande | i've convinced myself i'd rather use dillo :) |
| 16:06.41 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:06.45 | anrp | ... samsung's website really is terrible |
| 16:06.54 | anrp | didn't someone tell them that you can't put all your content inside flash? |
| 16:07.01 | anrp | it used to be a lot better |
| 16:07.05 | empty_min1 | hello moko |
| 16:07.16 | unknown_lamer | anrp: flash is the new web browser |
| 16:07.34 | unknown_lamer | nowadays half the web is useless to poor emacs-w3m users such as myself |
| 16:08.04 | galexande | unknown, but it's teh useless half so who cares |
| 16:08.14 | anrp | not always |
| 16:08.18 | anrp | as this example shows ;/ |
| 16:08.19 | unknown_lamer | galexande: yeah, and now I get to code instead of dick around online |
| 16:08.23 | empty_mind | guys any devices left ? |
| 16:09.01 | *** join/#openmoko tunecel (n=root@86.59.65.236) |
| 16:09.44 | galexande | that's a question no one is willing to answer anymore :) |
| 16:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 16:10.13 | pjz | Aww, they should have put some stats up onthe web page |
| 16:10.19 | pjz | like how many orders they got per hour |
| 16:10.36 | anrp | an excel product list... |
| 16:10.41 | woglinde | empty_mind dont know, the people who knows aren't here |
| 16:10.42 | anrp | wth? |
| 16:10.54 | *** join/#openmoko lynx__ (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 16:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko twt (i=twt@nat/google/x-6a1bd5fb440b116a) |
| 16:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko jpcass (n=chatzill@innovations-l22.ad.ic.ac.uk) |
| 16:13.44 | *** join/#openmoko wasabi (n=wasabi@207.55.182.70) |
| 16:14.15 | wasabi | does the moko phone thing have an accelerated ui like the iphone? |
| 16:14.37 | anrp | ) |
| 16:14.39 | galexande | wasabi, it doesn't have a ui yet |
| 16:14.45 | anrp | http://www.hhcn.org/maindoc/um_s3c2410s_rev12_030428.pdf |
| 16:14.54 | anrp | seriously. it doesn't even exist on samsung's web site |
| 16:14.58 | anrp | that one is a bit old |
| 16:15.03 | galexande | i found it on samsung with no trouble whatsoever :) |
| 16:15.05 | alex-weej | with openmoko, could i hack something to do an offline voicemail system so that i don't get extorted by network voicemail prices? |
| 16:15.06 | galexande | but i had to use firefoix |
| 16:15.12 | wasabi | ... no UI? |
| 16:15.12 | anrp | huh? |
| 16:15.22 | wasabi | So what exactly are you buying for $300? heh |
| 16:15.23 | anrp | wait, are they looking at referrer? |
| 16:15.30 | *** part/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.87) |
| 16:15.30 | alex-weej | hey wasabi :D |
| 16:15.32 | wasabi | hi |
| 16:15.35 | galexande | wasabi, it's hardware. developers can add software to it, but that hasn't happened yet. |
| 16:15.38 | wasabi | oh. |
| 16:15.43 | wasabi | oh well, n/m then heh |
| 16:15.49 | galexande | i mean, technically it can place and receive calls without going to a shell prompt |
| 16:16.03 | galexande | but if you want voicemail, you're talking gsm at commands to a serial console |
| 16:16.08 | galexande | or text messages |
| 16:16.18 | wasabi | so it's pretty far from actually something that people can use |
| 16:16.26 | galexande | wasabi, yes. |
| 16:16.32 | woglinde | wasabi yes |
| 16:16.40 | woglinde | developer can |
| 16:16.46 | woglinde | normal people no |
| 16:16.49 | wasabi | for some definition of developers, sure. =) |
| 16:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko mil__ (n=talusha@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 16:16.59 | wasabi | thanks. |
| 16:17.14 | *** part/#openmoko wasabi (n=wasabi@207.55.182.70) |
| 16:18.08 | thomasg_gpm | well, I'm not a developer, but I guess I can, too :) |
| 16:18.42 | juri_ | ok, the orders page is working in firefox, and not in mozilla, or konqueror. |
| 16:18.45 | alex-weej | so can someone answer my question? is it possible to hack something that can take voicemail on the phone itself rather than via the network? |
| 16:18.56 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 16:18.59 | alex-weej | sweet |
| 16:19.13 | alex-weej | i miss calls all the time and i hate having to pay 20p/minute! |
| 16:19.15 | SpeedEvil | the audio can be routed through the CPU for all sorts of wierd stuff |
| 16:19.27 | maxauthority | mhm, will the moko be able to grep sms messages e.g. since it has a terminal? |
| 16:19.29 | galexande | man, the s3c2410 does it all! |
| 16:19.30 | jpcass | so long as the phone is on when the call arrives you could automate answer and record to flash |
| 16:19.32 | alex-weej | btw what's all the hoo har about the FCC having a bit of a paddy about open source radios? |
| 16:19.45 | galexande | it's the same one as in the h1940, no wonder this looks familiar |
| 16:20.08 | jpcass | if someone ports asterisk to openmoko local voicemail will be a cinch |
| 16:20.10 | *** join/#openmoko Robot101 (n=robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk) |
| 16:20.17 | galexande | alex, the FCC has strict rules for all consumer devices that they can only emit on certain bands, and if they want to emit on other bands, they have to be very carefully controlled |
| 16:20.18 | alex-weej | :O |
| 16:20.34 | juri_ | i also get the white page on internet explorer... |
| 16:20.42 | galexande | alex, open software radios cannot satisfy any of those guarantees, and never will, so the FCC will never approve of them |
| 16:21.03 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16) |
| 16:21.19 | galexande | juri, are you entering your state as two uppercase letters? |
| 16:21.23 | juri_ | yes. |
| 16:21.28 | galexande | then maybe it's just fubared :) |
| 16:21.51 | roh | juri_ the shop is down atm |
| 16:22.01 | galexande | sold out? :) |
| 16:22.10 | woglinde | roh why? |
| 16:22.17 | galexande | wog, /. |
| 16:22.17 | *** join/#openmoko onispawn (n=onispawn@207.224.214.190) |
| 16:22.41 | daxxar | http://rafb.net/p/IEaKag14.html - Anyone able to help me out with this error when building? :-( |
| 16:22.55 | daxxar | make setup && make openmoko-devel-image |
| 16:23.14 | galexande | nope i didn't get those errors |
| 16:24.16 | galexande | so i heard a rumor the s3c2410 had fpu, but it doesn't look like i heard right |
| 16:24.26 | SpeedEvil | No, no FPU |
| 16:24.49 | deepank__ | daxxar:I too did not get those errors, did you install the prerequisites for OE? |
| 16:25.03 | roh | woglinde because apache sucks and eats memory |
| 16:25.03 | galexande | i can't believe it's a 266MHz processor with a 640x480 display, that's just crazy |
| 16:25.17 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> wiki.openmoko.org <> Buy now for $300 from www.openmoko.com - Direct Link to Buy: https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping date projected at 2007-07-16 or later <> Wiki slashdotted. FAQ at http://tinyurl.com/2dalyb |
| 16:25.20 | bhima_ | I wouldn't port asterisk to openmoko. If you want voicemail, writing something straightforward from scratch would be much more reasonable IMHO. |
| 16:25.21 | woglinde | roh hehe why you didnt took lighttp |
| 16:25.46 | woglinde | openmoko needs better consulting |
| 16:25.47 | juri_ | galex: my nokia 770 has less cpu, but still plays fullscreen video (800x480). |
| 16:25.53 | goodfoot | I really would like to see emacs on it. |
| 16:26.20 | zecke|work | woglinde: ? |
| 16:26.21 | jpcass | 770 has hardware pixel doubling and hardware mp3 decode... |
| 16:26.27 | woglinde | zecke yes? |
| 16:26.27 | deepank__ | goodfoot:emacs will be good but tying is still a problem |
| 16:26.37 | woglinde | that apache suckz knows everybody |
| 16:26.42 | woglinde | or not |
| 16:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:26.45 | daxxar | deepank__: I believe so. |
| 16:26.46 | woglinde | dont know ;) |
| 16:26.57 | ScaredyCat | speaking in tongues you are... |
| 16:27.03 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:27.40 | daxxar | Followed http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro for Ubuntu |
| 16:27.58 | mjr | jpcass, re. pixel doubling, the neo can do fullscreen scaled qvga |
| 16:28.30 | jpcass | mjr: neat, in hardware? |
| 16:28.33 | SpeedEvil | Yes |
| 16:28.38 | SpeedEvil | The LCD does it |
| 16:29.00 | deepank__ | daxxar:ok , then you can try this command : make clean-package-quilt-native |
| 16:29.06 | deepank__ | and try to rebuild |
| 16:29.10 | jpcass | anyone porting mplayer for neo? |
| 16:29.26 | SpeedEvil | gmplayer should just about work as a stylus app |
| 16:29.27 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-209-127.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:30.36 | roh | woglinde i AM taking lighty now. but need to complete migrate the config first |
| 16:30.37 | juri_ | yay! its up! |
| 16:30.39 | *** join/#openmoko leonel (n=leonel@189.155.99.191) |
| 16:30.44 | unknown_lamer | ruoso: now you have 15 neos |
| 16:30.59 | ScaredyCat | (advanced) |
| 16:31.08 | woglinde | roh ;) |
| 16:31.17 | ruoso | unknown_lamer, probably I have all of them, if it created an order for every blank return |
| 16:31.19 | roh | white pages usually seem to mean no order at all |
| 16:31.22 | woglinde | roh dont forget the clustering |
| 16:31.23 | galexande | jpcass, it's been run already, i don't know if it's part of openmoko |
| 16:31.51 | ruoso | I had at least 30 blank returns |
| 16:33.06 | galexande | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhzm_hpEbo |
| 16:33.11 | galexande | (mplyer on neo) |
| 16:33.48 | *** join/#openmoko macogw (n=macogw@unaffiliated/macogw) |
| 16:33.58 | *** join/#openmoko astinus (n=alex@gentoo/developer/astinus) |
| 16:34.00 | macogw | does the neo have voicedialing? |
| 16:34.07 | SpeedEvil | macogw: no |
| 16:34.12 | macogw | ok |
| 16:34.13 | SpeedEvil | It could. |
| 16:34.21 | macogw | just doesnt at teh moment |
| 16:34.21 | astinus | If you wrote it ;) |
| 16:34.26 | macogw | yeah |
| 16:34.28 | galexande | macogw, it barely has dialing |
| 16:34.29 | SpeedEvil | Basically, at the moment, the answer to any software question is no. |
| 16:34.32 | macogw | haha |
| 16:34.46 | SpeedEvil | With very, very few exceptions. |
| 16:34.50 | *** join/#openmoko duplex (n=duplex@p57A848E4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:34.52 | tuukkah | SpeedEvil, is there a roadmap ?-) |
| 16:34.54 | Basheri | SpeedEvil: u have an alias for that? :P |
| 16:34.58 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:35.19 | SpeedEvil | tunecel: yes - somewhere on the wiki |
| 16:35.21 | SpeedEvil | which is down |
| 16:35.48 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 16:35.49 | galexande | i am so excited about the specs of this thing |
| 16:36.12 | summatusmentis | I'm excited for the unannounced specs on the other openmoko machines :-) |
| 16:36.13 | SpeedEvil | A copy of the Neo1973 and FAQ pages are at the URL in the topic. |
| 16:36.21 | macogw | the old press page had a lot of info |
| 16:36.58 | galexande | my ipaq lives with a total of 36M RAM and 50M storage somehow, the neo will be monstrous by comparison |
| 16:37.05 | galexande | i won't feel like a hero just for getting gcc installed |
| 16:37.18 | SpeedEvil | Actually - it seems to be waking up now. |
| 16:37.27 | SpeedEvil | (the wiki) |
| 16:37.39 | Hopscotch | seems like some of the *openmoko*-sites have problems with their virtual servers |
| 16:38.23 | astinus | Probably a lack of memory, exacerbated by Slashdot. |
| 16:38.23 | woglinde | hopscotch yes |
| 16:38.27 | juri_ | Noooo! |
| 16:38.40 | woglinde | hopscotch was discussed here 5 minutes ago |
| 16:38.45 | Hopscotch | ah, hehe |
| 16:38.52 | Hopscotch | sorry - should have read the backlog |
| 16:38.55 | woglinde | now transition from apache to lighttp |
| 16:39.08 | juri_ | DNS error... |
| 16:39.21 | Hopscotch | lightty rocks :) |
| 16:39.22 | galexande | the s3c2410 says it is only up to 206MHz? |
| 16:39.24 | galexande | er, 203 |
| 16:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.51.170) |
| 16:40.37 | galexande | well, the older revision of the datasheet says 266, so whatever |
| 16:41.54 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@62.147.230.26) |
| 16:43.46 | galexande | hmmm, i'm real curious how active the processor is when the phone is in standby |
| 16:44.24 | *** join/#openmoko Nalim (n=Miranda@www.kwik.cz) |
| 16:45.10 | *** join/#openmoko |R| (i=bob@modemcable241.28-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 16:46.27 | anrp | you have to define what you mean by phone in standby |
| 16:46.56 | anrp | you can do dynamic frequency scaling with the s3c2410 (although linux may not support it (yet)) |
| 16:47.33 | galexande | i can't tell if there's a power-down mode at less than 10mA that keeps the lcd running |
| 16:47.44 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 16:47.44 | ScaredyCat | andylockran: did you svn up ? |
| 16:47.49 | Hopscotch | the main problem here is the backlight |
| 16:47.54 | *** join/#openmoko evanpro (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 16:48.10 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 16:50.24 | SpeedEvil | galexande: no |
| 16:50.37 | SpeedEvil | galexande: The lowest powerdown modeis 12Mhz |
| 16:50.44 | SpeedEvil | galexande: wh9ich uses 50mW |
| 16:51.00 | SpeedEvil | galexande: it needs IIRC >100Mhz to run the display at all. |
| 16:51.08 | thomasg_gpm | the power consumtion if the arm devices is rea lly impressive |
| 16:51.20 | SpeedEvil | Not in this phone alas. |
| 16:51.24 | drath | SpeedEvil: could the 2d/3d accelerator change this? |
| 16:51.37 | SpeedEvil | drath: perhaps. |
| 16:51.55 | SpeedEvil | drath: it can be used to display the image while the CPU is off or slow |
| 16:52.02 | kinlo | the screen is going to be fully powered down when the phone is idle? |
| 16:52.08 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 16:52.08 | drath | SpeedEvil: ah, nice |
| 16:52.17 | SpeedEvil | The screen is also not at all reflective |
| 16:52.23 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 16:52.27 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 16:52.28 | SpeedEvil | you can't see it at all in reflected light with the backlight off |
| 16:52.33 | anrp | shame |
| 16:52.49 | SpeedEvil | There is a tradeoff between brightness of backlight and reflection |
| 16:53.04 | SpeedEvil | if you have it somewhat reflective, you need double the power |
| 16:53.36 | anrp | true |
| 16:53.50 | anrp | but to fully side on the side of transmissive seems a bit strange, given this is a mobile device |
| 16:54.38 | SpeedEvil | Even the best reflective displays of the conventional sort are only a few % reflective |
| 16:54.55 | anrp | it only needs a few % :/ |
| 16:56.02 | SpeedEvil | But to get 5% reflection, you need 100% more backlight... |
| 16:56.25 | galexande | well, of all the gosh-darn problems. |
| 16:56.31 | anrp | i haven't seen one of the screens in real life yet so I can't really comment on it |
| 16:56.40 | astinus | I'm rather looking forward to general-availability of this kit :) |
| 16:56.51 | anrp | but it might be ok to make it dimmer... the transmissive display on my Z is stupidly bright, for instance |
| 16:56.52 | SpeedEvil | It's basically unusable in full sunlight. |
| 16:56.53 | astinus | got a lot of rather neat projects in mind, if I can dig out the $450 |
| 16:56.58 | galexande | i think it's building gcc-cross target=arm, host=i386, so it's calling the host's gcc command |
| 16:57.03 | galexande | and the host calls "as ..." |
| 16:57.24 | SpeedEvil | astinus: unless you're developing u-boot, you shouldn't need the advanced |
| 16:57.28 | galexande | and there just happens to be a script anmed "as" in the current directory |
| 16:57.32 | anrp | lol |
| 16:58.08 | Tronic | Reflective display would be nice for a mobile phone. |
| 16:58.10 | anrp | is Vcore 2.0v? |
| 16:58.14 | anrp | or 1.8? |
| 16:58.16 | Tronic | I've only seen them on GPS devices. |
| 16:58.28 | astinus | SpeedEvil: This is true :) I'm actually looking to get something like Ruby working on there, get some kind of ethernet interface working, and develop a network-accessible texting interface |
| 16:58.29 | anrp | i have a tablet with a 10" reflective display, a fujitsu one |
| 16:58.35 | SpeedEvil | B+W displays are easy to do reflective |
| 16:58.37 | anrp | its amazing in full sun |
| 16:59.20 | anrp | 24 bit color too .. |
| 16:59.46 | tuukkah | slashdot: "the price will be $450 for the Neo Base and $600 for Neo Advanced." "-really close to feature parity with the iPhone, but if you compare the two top end models, the price is the same." |
| 16:59.51 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 17:00.00 | SpeedEvil | That's for the October version |
| 17:00.15 | anrp | misinformation, too, the $600 version isn't better hardware wise than the $450 |
| 17:00.25 | tuukkah | my point is, they are thinking "advanced" means better |
| 17:00.29 | anrp | well .. it does come with a pelican case |
| 17:00.31 | anrp | but still D: |
| 17:00.37 | Rince | the hardware is the same in both models |
| 17:00.39 | ben_goodger | oh, yes, that was weird |
| 17:00.41 | tuukkah | i don't think it should be called advanced. for this reason. |
| 17:00.52 | Rince | has Sean confirmed that a manual upgrade from gta01_04 to gta02 is poossible? |
| 17:01.06 | anrp | huh? |
| 17:01.07 | SpeedEvil | He's said it's possible |
| 17:01.16 | SpeedEvil | but not confirmed if it will be offered. |
| 17:01.16 | anrp | manual upgrade.. swapping boards? |
| 17:01.22 | Rince | anrp: yes |
| 17:01.25 | galexande | yeoah everything has convenient connectors |
| 17:01.30 | Rince | SpeedEvil: that's the last thing for me to wait with the order ;) |
| 17:01.31 | anrp | talk about user friendly ~_~ |
| 17:01.34 | seemant | did they confirm that there's a discount on the gta02 if you already have the gta01? |
| 17:01.37 | SpeedEvil | The case, GPS antenna, don't change |
| 17:01.41 | anrp | confirm no discount |
| 17:01.42 | SpeedEvil | seemant: no, there is not |
| 17:01.44 | Rince | seemant: there won't be a discoun |
| 17:01.47 | Rince | +t |
| 17:01.56 | seemant | then I'll probably just wait for gta02 :( |
| 17:01.58 | *** part/#openmoko Cairdazar (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) |
| 17:02.00 | SpeedEvil | seem: the 01 is discounted instead |
| 17:02.08 | seemant | SpeedEvil: oh? |
| 17:02.36 | astinus | seemant: 01 is $300/$450 not $450/$600 |
| 17:02.55 | galexande | lynx http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-June/000013.html |
| 17:02.55 | seemant | ah |
| 17:03.01 | galexande | er you don't need the lynx part :) |
| 17:04.13 | *** join/#openmoko DynWind (n=vikas@zresearch.com) |
| 17:04.41 | seemant | thanks galexande |
| 17:04.44 | DynWind | I think I've got the perfect slogan for openmoko: |
| 17:05.01 | DynWind | "Don't question why she needs to be so free/She'll tell you it's the only way to be" |
| 17:05.04 | DynWind | :) |
| 17:05.11 | anrp | she? |
| 17:05.17 | anrp | it.. |
| 17:05.25 | anrp | but then again, i'm no marketer |
| 17:05.26 | woglinde | she == naked woman? |
| 17:05.35 | woglinde | or what? |
| 17:05.42 | anrp | ... |
| 17:05.49 | seemant | website typo: http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-04-software.html "are build" should be "are built" |
| 17:06.01 | DynWind | it's from Rolling Stones - Ruby Tuesday |
| 17:06.06 | tuukkah | what's this talk about no stereo headphones in iPhone, should we include this in https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone ? |
| 17:06.14 | DynWind | c'mon, as if you guys don't get a hard-on thinking about the phone :P |
| 17:06.54 | ScaredyCat | we're a little more grown up... |
| 17:06.58 | mil__ | anrp: when you do send out the order confirmation? only got the auto-reply since yesterday |
| 17:07.04 | anrp | :? |
| 17:07.10 | anrp | i am not the keeper of the phones |
| 17:07.24 | carrar | I didn't even get a auto-reply |
| 17:07.34 | anrp | i got the auto-reply immediately but i got my order in early too |
| 17:07.36 | ScaredyCat | from the ticket syste? |
| 17:07.38 | mil__ | oh, sry |
| 17:07.40 | anrp | thats all ive gotten tho |
| 17:07.42 | ScaredyCat | mmm.... |
| 17:07.57 | galexande | tuukkah, the iphone just doesn't fit most headphones because its connector is too deeply recessed |
| 17:08.01 | carrar | I don't even know if the order worked |
| 17:08.03 | *** part/#openmoko DynWind (n=vikas@zresearch.com) |
| 17:08.04 | seemant | do we know if 01 syncs contacts and calendars over bluetooth with my laptop's evolution? |
| 17:08.06 | CM | Well written: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/07/09/neo_1973_launch/ |
| 17:08.14 | galexande | seemant, software = no |
| 17:08.22 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:08.28 | ScaredyCat | lol seemant |
| 17:08.28 | galexande | CM, how's it feel to be the first one |
| 17:08.39 | tuukkah | galexande, sounds like a design point for neo then =) |
| 17:08.41 | CM | galexande: Hehe.. Lucky bastard |
| 17:08.46 | seemant | ScaredyCat: seriously? I thought that was a planned feature |
| 17:09.02 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but not yet |
| 17:09.10 | mil__ | anrp: same for me. but did you get a order confirmation? |
| 17:09.13 | CM | galexande: I just came home from a huge dinner, looked at the channel and saw some noise about the store, then ordered a phone right away. :D |
| 17:09.37 | seemant | so it really only makes calls right now? |
| 17:09.41 | galexande | wow |
| 17:09.43 | seemant | and, probably, receives them |
| 17:09.46 | CM | seemant: Barely that |
| 17:09.50 | seemant | barely? |
| 17:09.53 | CM | The dialer is a bit buggy |
| 17:10.02 | galexande | and ugly |
| 17:10.04 | CM | The software is far from finished |
| 17:10.14 | galexande | yay, i made a specs file for my gcc-i386 and that solevd it all |
| 17:10.16 | CM | galexande: Yes, awful. At least in qemu |
| 17:10.19 | seemant | right, so for 300, what are we buying exactly then? |
| 17:10.28 | *** join/#openmoko pygi (n=mario@89-172-235-136.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 17:10.44 | sannes | How many have received an order confirmation (the second message?), I was pretty early, but has received no such thing.. |
| 17:10.50 | CM | seemant: A small arm computer with a 640x480 touchscreen, gsm modem and a gps :D |
| 17:10.51 | happycube | a hackable prototype ;) |
| 17:10.57 | galexande | seemant, a PCB populated with an s3c2410, some SDRAM, flash, microSD, an LCD+touchscreen, and a USB cable |
| 17:11.00 | galexande | oh and a battery and case |
| 17:11.05 | seemant | ha, fair enough |
| 17:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko Philippe (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:11.14 | ScaredyCat | CM ... they seem to be suggesting tat the advanced kit consists of the base kit + screwdriver... |
| 17:11.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Debug_Board/it]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973/it]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Disassembling_Neo1973]] [[GSM]] [[Gsm]] [[User:Chairboy]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Hardware_Developer/it]] [[Translation_HOWTO/de]] and other changes |
| 17:11.18 | drear | seemant, a development platform. |
| 17:11.23 | seemant | ScaredyCat: and a guitar pick |
| 17:11.26 | galexande | sannes, no one yet, i think they may be waiting for the phone to clear customs before charging our cards or something |
| 17:11.31 | anrp | and a pelican case! |
| 17:11.32 | CM | ScaredyCat: The big thing is the jtag debug board |
| 17:11.34 | happycube | advanced also has the debug board... jtag! |
| 17:11.40 | happycube | usb-bridged for ease of use, too. |
| 17:11.40 | sannes | galexande: ah, so no need to worry then :) |
| 17:12.00 | CM | happycube: Hehe.. I think we're on the same wavelength, at least by looking at our answers above ;) |
| 17:12.24 | ScaredyCat | CM: yes, bu they don;t actually mention it in the article... |
| 17:12.29 | ScaredyCat | only the screwdriver |
| 17:12.45 | happycube | i actually have some odd thoughts on the gta01... very basic phone with a nice lcd, and most of the actual stuff going over usb/bt tethering |
| 17:12.45 | tunecel | sannes:i got one a minute or so after my order |
| 17:12.59 | ScaredyCat | "advanced set (with screwdriver) for $450. " |
| 17:13.00 | CM | ScaredyCat: Ah, true. The article could have been more clear on that point |
| 17:13.15 | ScaredyCat | it doesn't even mention the jtag |
| 17:13.16 | happycube | a lot of interface stuff just dosen't go touchscreen very well - i.e. text messaging. then again unlike iphone neo can deal with bt kbds ;) |
| 17:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko waecky (n=waecky@p549CEE1D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:13.41 | galexande | happy i'm real curious to see how usable we can make the UI, really |
| 17:13.45 | happycube | ditto |
| 17:13.53 | galexande | everything except games i think can be done on just a touchscreen with no multitouch or awkwardness |
| 17:13.57 | CM | I want to try HexInput |
| 17:13.59 | happycube | i wonder if gta01's 3d is fixed function or program-based |
| 17:14.02 | galexande | if you're willing to type on a virtual keyboard :) |
| 17:14.24 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 17:14.29 | ScaredyCat | or carry a full sized usb one ... |
| 17:14.29 | happycube | fragment programs are *fun*... last week i wrote a program that warped a jpg and used almost no cpu power |
| 17:14.36 | happycube | *bitmapped jpg |
| 17:14.43 | juri_ | Yay! |
| 17:14.48 | juri_ | Stage 3! :) |
| 17:14.53 | happycube | i have a targus bt keyboard already ;) |
| 17:14.58 | loufoque | happycube: how fast was it? |
| 17:15.03 | happycube | smooth |
| 17:15.20 | happycube | i was having problems with the parameter texture so it wasn't doing the inbetween frames right |
| 17:15.36 | happycube | i had to boot my macbook into macos because the dri gma950 driver was buggy - i need the latest x.org on etch somehow :( |
| 17:16.00 | happycube | and then if that dosen't work i'll turn it into a bug report for the dri ppl |
| 17:16.51 | happycube | i used sin+cos and some multiplies to non-linearly pick a bit of the texture and dri didn't care for that much |
| 17:17.18 | happycube | but anyhow... i think the ui (even with fixed function 3d) will be quite nice on gta02 ;) |
| 17:17.26 | happycube | *look |
| 17:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 17:18.23 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 17:19.25 | loufoque | why does the theme slow openmoko down so much? |
| 17:19.31 | galexande | so this new 2.6.22 kernel, does it actually not need an ypatches? |
| 17:19.47 | sannes | tunecel: so you have received two e-mails? |
| 17:20.00 | juri_ | what boot loader comes on this thing? |
| 17:20.12 | anrp | u-boot |
| 17:20.36 | anrp | where's the jbt6k74 datasheet? as far as I can tell it doesn't exist on toshiba's taec site |
| 17:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-213-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:22.10 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 17:22.16 | tunecel | sannes: one conformation mail with my number #2129 |
| 17:22.35 | tunecel | sannes:only one |
| 17:23.08 | woglinde | uh |
| 17:23.11 | woglinde | nice |
| 17:23.17 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:23.28 | woglinde | hm ups |
| 17:23.39 | woglinde | only 200 more than yesterday evening |
| 17:23.51 | tunecel | jup |
| 17:23.57 | pygi | o well |
| 17:23.59 | woglinde | but 200 more |
| 17:24.04 | woglinde | anyway |
| 17:24.05 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 17:24.22 | tunecel | i order in the morning |
| 17:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko homyx (n=homyx@ppp-88-217-12-201.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 17:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 17:25.25 | *** join/#openmoko depinko (n=depinko@nitranet1.swan.sk) |
| 17:25.26 | happycube | what's the status of web browsers on openmoko? |
| 17:25.26 | juri_ | openmoko.com is down. |
| 17:25.36 | woglinde | juri we know |
| 17:25.41 | juri_ | ah, back up. |
| 17:25.43 | tunecel | i got no cc yesterday 21:30 |
| 17:25.47 | cjb | he said web browsers, not web servers :) |
| 17:26.28 | CM | happycube: You can ask zecke what he's up to ;) |
| 17:26.28 | woglinde | happy cube minimo should work |
| 17:26.28 | happycube | nice |
| 17:26.28 | woglinde | konq_emb too |
| 17:26.31 | happycube | " |
| 17:26.33 | woglinde | and all the console based |
| 17:26.46 | woglinde | opera should work too |
| 17:26.54 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 17:26.55 | SpeedEvil | A couple of pages from wiki linked in topic |
| 17:26.59 | SpeedEvil | FAQ and Neo1973 |
| 17:27.04 | woglinde | opera mini should work if it runs with classpath |
| 17:27.05 | SpeedEvil | IMO, FF should work |
| 17:27.19 | woglinde | speedevil pff oversized |
| 17:27.20 | SpeedEvil | Some disagree. |
| 17:27.34 | SpeedEvil | My POV is that I run FF now on a PII/300, 128M |
| 17:27.39 | *** join/#openmoko pike__ (n=happy@74-140-134-102.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 17:27.44 | SpeedEvil | and an 800*600 window |
| 17:28.13 | SpeedEvil | No, it's not ideal. |
| 17:28.40 | SpeedEvil | I've currently got 20 tabs open. |
| 17:28.49 | galexande | speed, but you can swap easier on a PC than a pda |
| 17:28.55 | SpeedEvil | Not really. |
| 17:29.00 | galexande | you've *always* got 20 tabs open |
| 17:29.02 | SpeedEvil | I'm swapping - as a test - |
| 17:29.03 | zecke|work | happycube: WebKit/Gtk will be used. |
| 17:29.14 | SpeedEvil | to an AES encrypted partition. |
| 17:29.17 | happycube | cool |
| 17:29.22 | zecke|work | happycube: it uses a tenth of memory Gecko needs to render a page |
| 17:29.38 | galexande | anywys, the official openmoko web browser development is proceeding with webkit, isn't it? |
| 17:29.47 | galexande | i can't remember if webkit was part of gnome or kde or what |
| 17:29.49 | SpeedEvil | galexande: the read/write speed is comparable. And the Neo will use _much_ lower CPU to swap. |
| 17:29.51 | galexande | probably gnome :) |
| 17:30.03 | galexande | speed, i dunno, i think swapping to flash is just bad style |
| 17:30.07 | happycube | webkit was originally apple's adaption of khtml |
| 17:30.24 | woglinde | galexande dont know, the fact is that zecke works on webit as an google soc project |
| 17:30.26 | happycube | so webkit/gtk is kind of both kde and gnome based ;) |
| 17:30.27 | woglinde | webkit |
| 17:30.29 | Aria | webkit was KDE's KHTML, then ported to Cocoa, then re-ported with a compatibility layer to use GTK instead of QT |
| 17:30.39 | Aria | Freakin' bizarre but brilliant work |
| 17:30.45 | Aria | the GTK portion's a bit dodgy still though |
| 17:31.06 | galexande | that's pretty neat if it can render on both gtk and qt and aqua (or carbon or whatever) |
| 17:31.11 | happycube | zecke - ? |
| 17:31.16 | mmazur | Right. What's the browser gonna be for neo? |
| 17:31.16 | zecke|work | Aria: welcome to 2007... |
| 17:31.34 | zecke|work | mmazur: a frontend needs to be written |
| 17:31.34 | *** join/#openmoko davi (n=davi@80.30.83.239) |
| 17:31.49 | mmazur | zecke|work, for what? Webkit? |
| 17:31.53 | Aria | zecke|work: Thank you thank you. I'll have been here all year. |
| 17:32.02 | mmazur | I believe mozilla ppl are doing something portable. |
| 17:32.05 | mmazur | minimo? |
| 17:32.10 | Aria | minimoz! |
| 17:32.12 | mmazur | Firerat? |
| 17:32.13 | mmazur | Or something. |
| 17:32.14 | happycube | minimo's still larger than webkit/gtk aparently |
| 17:32.19 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 17:32.20 | Aria | Yeah |
| 17:32.21 | Aria | It is |
| 17:32.27 | galexande | is it just me or is the neo exactly twice the specs of the greenphone (except mhz) |
| 17:32.30 | mmazur | And opera? |
| 17:32.41 | happycube | galexande - also cheaper and fully open |
| 17:32.44 | zecke|work | mmazur: wasn't free software last time I checked |
| 17:32.54 | Aria | http://www.mozilla.org/projects/minimo/ |
| 17:33.17 | mmazur | zecke|work, well, you don't exactly integrate a browser with the rest of the software all that mouch, so doesn't have to be. |
| 17:33.25 | galexande | jeesh, $700! |
| 17:33.44 | galexande | hahahah software license fee!!! |
| 17:33.46 | *** join/#openmoko rillian (n=giles@rain.thaumas.net) |
| 17:34.00 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: Of course you do! |
| 17:34.06 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: Internet Explorer! |
| 17:34.13 | zecke|work | mmazur: opera will be out of busines by the time the hardware ships |
| 17:34.19 | Aria | Heh |
| 17:34.26 | happycube | heck get to a certain point and you could run the whole UI via the browser if you really wanted |
| 17:34.34 | rillian | order.cgi working for anyone else? |
| 17:34.52 | SpeedEvil | rillian: msg me your CC and I'll tell you :) |
| 17:34.52 | galexande | rillian, slashdot has been a little hard on it |
| 17:35.19 | leonel | Is J2ME working with openmoko ? or a openjava alternative ? |
| 17:35.21 | rillian | galexande: I figured when I saw it on boingboing this morning I might have trouble |
| 17:35.26 | rillian | SpeedEvil: CC? |
| 17:35.26 | Kero | how many neos have been sold so far? |
| 17:35.28 | Aria | leonel: Classpath at least |
| 17:35.34 | happycube | there've been about 300 web orders |
| 17:35.37 | rillian | SpeedEvil: oh, credit card number. hee heee |
| 17:35.38 | woglinde | leonol cacoa should classpath too |
| 17:35.48 | rillian | happycube: so still a chance to get one of this batch :) |
| 17:35.49 | happycube | zecke - is opera running out of money? |
| 17:35.55 | woglinde | leonol and phoneme can be compiled for arm |
| 17:35.57 | leonel | Aria , woglinde thanks |
| 17:36.07 | woglinde | happycube a little bit |
| 17:36.10 | zecke|work | happycube: woglinde showed their stock quotes |
| 17:36.23 | happycube | i wonder what nokia and nintendo'll do then |
| 17:36.25 | woglinde | the stockcourse gets down and the ceo was kicked out |
| 17:36.28 | happycube | wow |
| 17:36.28 | leonel | woglinde: cocoa ? |
| 17:36.34 | woglinde | cacoa |
| 17:36.42 | zecke|work | happycube: and the strategy on Opera Mini is due no one is paying them for browser integration (think of nokia series 60) |
| 17:36.43 | woglinde | cacao |
| 17:36.45 | woglinde | let me see |
| 17:36.54 | woglinde | opera mini is java thingy |
| 17:37.30 | galexande | leonel, software = no |
| 17:37.59 | kiney | counter |
| 17:37.59 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, 2 days 18:22:00 (9.765±3.0 days) (1725;246) |
| 17:38.20 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 17:38.33 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 17:38.36 | kiney | wow... now the counter is counting down until shipping... but: to what country? |
| 17:38.52 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 17:38.57 | arw | heheh |
| 17:39.04 | arw | madagascar? |
| 17:39.21 | kiney | could be |
| 17:39.21 | rillian | I get alternately timeout, 500, and order.cgi served with the wrong mime-type |
| 17:39.22 | arw | ;) |
| 17:39.46 | *** join/#openmoko aaafg (n=aaafg@82-131-133-244.pool.invitel.hu) |
| 17:40.05 | don-o | 300 phones at $300 = $90,000 of moko-loving |
| 17:40.11 | ewon | heh |
| 17:40.29 | woglinde | don-o hm 5% with debugboard? |
| 17:40.31 | daMaestro | oh noes! is the wiki down? |
| 17:40.40 | woglinde | that would be intresting |
| 17:40.43 | daMaestro | roh, ping |
| 17:40.52 | don-o | woglinde: true, im sure some people opted for the debug board. |
| 17:41.01 | pygi | daMaestro, if you try to visit some page directly then it's not |
| 17:41.03 | woglinde | better dont disturbed roh |
| 17:41.12 | arw | i like to obtain the debug board |
| 17:41.24 | roh | daMaestro |
| 17:41.30 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness (n=koen@host86-131-236-115.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:41.32 | don-o | im waiting for the first usability reports from non-core-developers before getting a P1 |
| 17:41.33 | arw | but i've to wait two weeks :( |
| 17:41.50 | galexande | heh, the usability reports from core developers should be enough to scare anyone off :) |
| 17:41.57 | don-o | galexande: lol |
| 17:42.02 | arw | :) |
| 17:42.45 | Aria | I hear "it dials and the hardware works". Good enough for me |
| 17:42.55 | don-o | my main interest in the audiovideo capabilities is to watch battlestar galactica. i was shocked to see the youtube video of mickey playing video and using a battstar episode as the example! |
| 17:42.58 | mmazur | If you like calling via AT commands :) |
| 17:43.09 | anrp | lol |
| 17:43.12 | Aria | I can deal with that. |
| 17:43.13 | don-o | mmazur: brings back memories :) |
| 17:43.15 | anrp | using mplayer? |
| 17:43.19 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@81-208-86-166.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:43.20 | Rince | Aria: well - wether it dials the correct numbers is a different question ;) |
| 17:43.22 | happycube | i'd wait for gta02 for video playback m'self |
| 17:43.23 | SpeedEvil | It's not _quite_ that bad mmazur. |
| 17:43.24 | anrp | 266 is pretty slow for video |
| 17:43.52 | don-o | ATDT for3var |
| 17:43.52 | mmazur | Aria, that'd be like uber1337, wouldn't it? :) |
| 17:43.52 | SpeedEvil | anrp: low resolution. |
| 17:43.52 | anrp | nonscaled? |
| 17:43.52 | SpeedEvil | anrp: QVGA is plenty |
| 17:43.52 | Aria | Nah, just oldschool. |
| 17:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 17:43.53 | mmazur | SpeedEvil, meaning there are a bunch of scripts with 'chat' commands inside? :) |
| 17:43.54 | don-o | then i was rather disappointed to see battlestar play back at 1 frame every few seconds. |
| 17:43.56 | anrp | or does it have hw scaling? |
| 17:43.57 | mmazur | ./call.sh |
| 17:43.57 | SpeedEvil | anrp: even 120*160 may be quite adequate. |
| 17:44.02 | SpeedEvil | On a 2.8" screen |
| 17:44.13 | anrp | that's barely video... |
| 17:44.19 | anrp | but it is small |
| 17:44.23 | happycube | gta02's video chip assuming they get access to the mpeg-4 stuff should have a much better time of things |
| 17:44.23 | SpeedEvil | 2.8" is barely a screen. |
| 17:44.32 | SpeedEvil | 160*120 is about 2.8" on most monitors |
| 17:44.34 | don-o | happycube: indeed. |
| 17:44.37 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness_ (n=koen@vpn006036.vpn.utwente.nl) |
| 17:44.42 | happycube | it's 2.8" of 2xx dpi deliciousness though |
| 17:44.49 | SpeedEvil | Well - yes. |
| 17:45.11 | happycube | the display's more cpu limited than anything else i bet |
| 17:45.11 | SpeedEvil | I don't especially care, unless they will also supply me eyes that will do 285dpi at 40cm. |
| 17:45.45 | don-o | i want my display even smaller than 2.8" and mounted on my sunglasses. |
| 17:45.54 | SpeedEvil | I can't see a case for needing more than QVGA for video. |
| 17:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness (n=koen@host86-131-236-115.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 17:46.05 | SpeedEvil | Unless you want to hold it at 10cm with a magnifying glass. |
| 17:46.16 | don-o | that would put the "Neo" in the Neo1973 :) |
| 17:46.31 | happycube | sunglasses? ha. need neural implants |
| 17:46.46 | don-o | happycube: yeah but in my lifetime would be nice. |
| 17:46.48 | happycube | ok, i really want them |
| 17:47.04 | anrp | so did the video harware scale up the video to full screen size? or was it letterboxe? |
| 17:47.06 | anrp | +d |
| 17:47.13 | happycube | no hw scaler in gta01 |
| 17:47.19 | *** join/#openmoko jens_ (n=q@C2b8b.c.strato-dslnet.de) |
| 17:47.26 | don-o | i wonder how hard it would be for a metalworking shop in my town to make a brushed-aluminum case for the neo. |
| 17:47.27 | anrp | that's what i though :9 oh well |
| 17:47.28 | SpeedEvil | The LCD can also do QVGA mode |
| 17:47.40 | anrp | there's zero specs on those parts though |
| 17:48.28 | aaafg | is there any news on when the first shipments will be shipped? |
| 17:48.35 | Rince | 16th |
| 17:48.38 | galexande | with full vga, if we do our fonts right and so on, it will look *really* slick |
| 17:48.42 | don-o | anrp: once the first units are received, it seems a micrometer is all you'd need |
| 17:48.48 | aaafg | thanks. |
| 17:49.11 | galexande | i've been using a qvga palmtop for a while and with tiny "truetype" fonts, it looks like crap |
| 17:49.26 | don-o | i groaned a little bit at the post about a ripple-wave effect in the UI. seems like it'd be asking a lot of the cpu |
| 17:49.29 | happycube | yup... the high res will be very noticable |
| 17:49.43 | SpeedEvil | The latest number on the wiki indicates possibly 460 sales. |
| 17:49.53 | mmazur | wiki? |
| 17:49.57 | happycube | ripple-wave really needsprogram-based 3d ;) |
| 17:50.00 | jeddy3 | has someone tried qvga video with some sensible codec? |
| 17:50.04 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 17:50.08 | galexande | don-o, presumably the gta02 would do it easily though |
| 17:50.17 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners mmazur |
| 17:50.22 | happycube | ok it's less smooth with fixed-function 3d |
| 17:50.22 | happycube | but still doable |
| 17:50.29 | don-o | galexande: yeah but im trying not to get too excited about that after waiting for so long for the P1 |
| 17:50.33 | galexande | jeddy, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yjhzm_hpEbo |
| 17:50.52 | galexande | though i guess that may not be what you mean by sensible codec :) |
| 17:50.55 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't require much CPU - if you're happy to freeze the spot where the ripple occurs. |
| 17:50.56 | ynezz | let's port gtk to ncurses! :p |
| 17:51.02 | jeddy3 | galexande, yes and thats VGA, 640x480 |
| 17:51.08 | galexande | don-o, yeah, i don't care at all about glitz |
| 17:51.12 | pygi | ynezz, we've already got a telepathy ncurses client :) |
| 17:51.13 | bedboi | ncurses rocks :) |
| 17:51.19 | pygi | bedboi, yay! |
| 17:51.20 | jeddy3 | galexande, or at least not QVGA |
| 17:51.22 | galexande | i just want to hack everything so all the buttons are as big as possible |
| 17:51.28 | SpeedEvil | create a square patch over the ripple, and animate that, then delete the window. |
| 17:51.32 | galexande | and let someone else draw the icons for them |
| 17:51.36 | Aria | ynezz: Already doneish, but it's scary |
| 17:51.38 | bedboi | pygi: i remember my first "GUI" |
| 17:51.47 | don-o | galexande: i agree. down with the stylus |
| 17:52.06 | galexande | well i'm not the one who decided not to put a stylus holder in the device :) |
| 17:52.16 | galexande | but i lost all my ipaq stylii so whatever |
| 17:52.26 | don-o | galexande: that speaks volumes all by itself |
| 17:52.33 | ScaredyCat | well, imgaine how big it'd have to be for the one they supply |
| 17:52.38 | SpeedEvil | don-o: not really |
| 17:52.50 | SpeedEvil | don-o: the device design started out before OpenMoko |
| 17:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko alech (n=klink@IP-213188106106.dialin.heagmedianet.de) |
| 17:53.02 | SpeedEvil | It was not envisioned to be a PDA type thing running linux. |
| 17:53.13 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D837E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:53.21 | don-o | galexande: i had a dream last night of the 'slide to unlock' action working on the neo. i wonder how well it can track finger movement as opposed to finger presses. |
| 17:53.25 | pygi | bedboi, hehe :) |
| 17:53.35 | galexande | don-o, just fine |
| 17:53.45 | galexande | though i use my fingernails |
| 17:53.56 | don-o | 'scratch to unlock'? :) |
| 17:54.10 | mmazur | don-o, I'd like to have 'hand gestures' once the accelometers are in. |
| 17:54.12 | anrp | screech.. |
| 17:54.18 | mmazur | up, up, up, left, left for answer call |
| 17:54.34 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: naah |
| 17:54.37 | jeddy3 | noone tried QVGA (320x240)?, i agree with SpeedEvil that higher than that is not necessary (like in video with BSG) |
| 17:54.39 | don-o | that'd be a weird way to answer a call. |
| 17:54.47 | mmazur | That's the point :) |
| 17:55.01 | galexande | jeddy, software = no :) |
| 17:55.02 | mmazur | AT commands anyone? :) |
| 17:55.03 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: consider the movement of starting with the phone face out in your hand next to your body, and ending up held next to your ear |
| 17:55.08 | alech | Hi, does anyone else have trouble with the openmoko.com mailserver? It apparently came to deliver my order confirmation yesterday evening (around 20:00 UTC), but was greylisted by my mailserver and never came back. Similar thing for autoreplies (RT?) for mails to sales@openmoko.com. No autoreply yet for my mail that was sent from gmail, too .... |
| 17:55.11 | SpeedEvil | mmazur: it's moderately distinctive. |
| 17:55.16 | jeddy3 | galexande, video |
| 17:55.18 | tuukkah | do w have better info of the AT commands than here: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM_07.07 |
| 17:55.24 | arw | i've a comment |
| 17:55.25 | arw | here http://www.openmoko.com , do not exist link to openmoko.org |
| 17:55.38 | woglinde | tuukkah no |
| 17:55.42 | arw | i think that must be a link |
| 17:55.46 | galexande | jeddy, my point is, if it's not hardware, kernel driver, or dialer app, then it simply hasn't been touched yet |
| 17:55.59 | anrp | gsm07.07 is the AT command spec for GSM TE |
| 17:56.04 | mmazur | Does it have iptables? |
| 17:56.05 | tuukkah | woglinde, so at least i made a start :-) |
| 17:56.10 | mmazur | I basicaly need it as a gprs modem? |
| 17:56.11 | galexande | mmazur, you could build a kernel with iptables, or load the modules |
| 17:56.20 | rillian | there, I may have ordered one |
| 17:56.22 | mmazur | Strike the question mark. |
| 17:56.25 | alech | can someone confirm they are using RT on sales@openmoko.com? |
| 17:56.34 | arw | anyone knows , why dooes not exist? |
| 17:56.38 | arw | :( |
| 17:56.43 | jeddy3 | galexande, at least one person are obviously running mplayer |
| 17:56.43 | tuukkah | andred_, did i mischaracterize on the page? |
| 17:56.53 | galexande | alech, <roh> Jason1 its just our normal RT ticketnumber. given out for every mail. so it also increments when spam enters a unrelated queue |
| 17:56.53 | anrp | also gsm07.05 has some commands |
| 17:56.54 | tuukkah | anrp, did i mischaracterize on the page? |
| 17:57.00 | anrp | 07.10 is the multiplexing bits |
| 17:57.02 | galexande | (from last night) |
| 17:57.10 | woglinde | alech can be, the p1 free developer phones were organized via rt too |
| 17:57.21 | galexande | jeddy, i have a pda with a similar processor and qvga, and it plays low-quality mpegs no problemo |
| 17:57.33 | anrp | but since it's just a standard gsm module, it implements 07.?? |
| 17:57.35 | galexande | but they may be uh, sixteethVGA |
| 17:57.38 | *** join/#openmoko |R (i=bob@modemcable241.28-203-24.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 17:58.01 | rillian | arw: there's a like from the about::resources page. probably they didn't want to advertise it more prominently because openmoko.com is about selling the hardware |
| 17:58.11 | rillian | arw: s/like/link/ |
| 17:58.27 | alech | ok, so I should probably have gotten a mail back on my gmail account ...? |
| 17:58.51 | rillian | hmm. I didn't get to pick a colour :( |
| 17:58.57 | anrp | noone did |
| 17:59.08 | arw | probably they did not... |
| 17:59.09 | arw | thak you rillian |
| 17:59.35 | anrp | er, to rillian |
| 17:59.48 | rillian | anrp: well, at least I have company :) |
| 18:00.01 | rillian | maybe we organize swaps at conferences :) |
| 18:00.23 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 18:00.43 | anrp | over 3/4 of the buying interest list was black/silver, i think i know what color most of the production will be (...assuming they looked at that list) |
| 18:01.03 | SpeedEvil | Cases are almost free. |
| 18:01.05 | galexande | i really think teh orange will look better |
| 18:01.11 | anrp | they are |
| 18:01.16 | SpeedEvil | It's the moulds that cost. |
| 18:01.19 | anrp | if they're part of a run... |
| 18:01.27 | SpeedEvil | I wouldn't be surprised if they've made a run of 10K. |
| 18:01.36 | tuukkah | anrp, i started to think i should make GSM 07.07 redirect to GSM and list the important documents there |
| 18:01.41 | SpeedEvil | As they've said that the case won't change soon. |
| 18:02.10 | anrp | gsm07.07 does refer to a specific document |
| 18:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-87-165.net.novis.pt) |
| 18:03.35 | tuukkah | anrp, yeah but does it make sense to have a separate page for it in the wiki? |
| 18:03.42 | anrp | probably not |
| 18:03.55 | tuukkah | my bad, fixing now |
| 18:04.37 | juri_ | now, switch cell carriers to AT&T... |
| 18:04.44 | anrp | or t-mobile |
| 18:05.03 | happycube | you can get a prepaid sim if you don't want to give up your current phone of course |
| 18:06.49 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 18:10.06 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-84-75.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 18:10.27 | *** join/#openmoko bkruse (i=bkruse@nat/digium/x-cf83692581ac44fb) |
| 18:13.38 | *** join/#openmoko ds3 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 18:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-213-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:16.50 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:18.12 | tuukkah | something like this: https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/GSM |
| 18:18.48 | Elrond | "Can't open file: 'logincookies.MYI'. (errno: 12) at /usr/share/bugzilla/lib/globals.pl line 284." hehe. ;o) |
| 18:18.56 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-213-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:19.01 | roh | Elrond yes.. its broken |
| 18:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko ben_goodger (n=ben@host81-153-25-122.range81-153.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:20.14 | guerby | I finally asked sales@openmoko.com about my order, still no confirmation email/number after nearly 24h |
| 18:20.23 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@p5B006A1A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:20.33 | Elrond | roh - Who broke it? |
| 18:20.45 | Elrond | ... or better: Why did he break it? :-) |
| 18:21.13 | roh | Elrond dunno what exactly. propably openvz |
| 18:21.23 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 18:22.07 | *** join/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-71-234-142-158.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 18:23.26 | ds3 | anyone noticed wiki.openmoko.org is messed up |
| 18:23.30 | ds3 | getting errors |
| 18:23.40 | ds3 | OpenMoko has a problemSorry! This site is experiencing technical difficulties.Try waiting a few minutes and reloading.(Can't contact the database server: Lost connection to MySQL server during query (localhost)) |
| 18:23.45 | roh | thats also the same error |
| 18:24.51 | Elrond | roh - Well, the timing is very "good" ;o) |
| 18:24.51 | roh | some other virtual machine or the host is eating away memory and the admin with the logins is somewhere over baghdad |
| 18:25.06 | roh | Elrond i couldnt image better |
| 18:25.36 | mmazur | Baghdad? |
| 18:25.47 | ynezz | on mission... |
| 18:25.56 | roh | transcontinental flight europe taiwan |
| 18:26.23 | Elrond | Oh, and there's exactly one admin, right? ;-) |
| 18:26.25 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p54952FE2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:26.35 | *** join/#openmoko clode (n=clode@route66.mikke-mus.com) |
| 18:26.36 | Elrond | (you better say "I'm nda'd on this part" now. ;o)) ) |
| 18:27.15 | *** join/#openmoko nobody96 (n=nobody99@p5B220BFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:27.18 | clode | Greetings, is there any country restriction on the order for the phones?:-) |
| 18:27.19 | aloril | clode: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:27.23 | Elrond | .oO(I should better shut up. It's not helping anyone.) |
| 18:27.30 | SpeedEvil | clode: probably not iran |
| 18:27.32 | nobody96 | moin |
| 18:27.33 | roh | Elrond the others are either asleep or not reachable somehow.. yeah.. mr. bad timing is also on our paylist it seems |
| 18:27.37 | SpeedEvil | clode: or Cuba |
| 18:27.43 | clode | SpeedEvil: hah. ;p |
| 18:27.50 | aloril | it seems that greylisting == no AutoReply mail (ie. it tries only once) ? |
| 18:27.55 | SpeedEvil | clode: Being shipped from the US |
| 18:28.03 | clode | Sweet :) |
| 18:28.48 | don-o | fremont, california. basically from san francisco. |
| 18:28.49 | clode | When I tried to put in an order I got a Server error, is there any technical issues at the moment? |
| 18:28.51 | Tronic | Then the system is b0rked. However, greylisting is also b0rked. And in English you don't put a space before a question mark. |
| 18:28.54 | *** join/#openmoko Cairdazar (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) |
| 18:28.55 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:29.25 | Elrond | clode - Might be possible, there are other technical problems currently. |
| 18:29.36 | clode | Alright, thanks for the information. |
| 18:29.38 | pjz | wiki is slammed today |
| 18:29.46 | don-o | its moko-mania! |
| 18:29.51 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@p54B921EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:30.31 | aloril | how many tickets now? |
| 18:30.44 | aloril | (order tickets) |
| 18:31.27 | |R | robots are people too! |
| 18:32.03 | aloril | guess: order script tries to mail directly, not trough daemon? |
| 18:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 18:32.21 | roh | don-o the bot ate too much soylent gree |
| 18:32.23 | roh | n |
| 18:32.26 | aloril | don-o: hehe, wrong classification: s/robot/cyborg/ ;-) |
| 18:32.42 | don-o | aloril: oh okay. i thought command data was pretty cool :) |
| 18:32.53 | don-o | s/command/commander/(star trek) |
| 18:32.54 | *** part/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 18:33.58 | SpeedEvil | aloril: wiki indiated 400-500 ish sold. |
| 18:34.10 | __alurdun | I'm having issues with ordering as well. Site's gimped. |
| 18:34.18 | don-o | amazingly quick sellout |
| 18:34.26 | galexande | alurdun, accurate diagnosis. |
| 18:34.29 | ScaredyCat | did I just see Tronic critisize someone for putting a space before a question mark, right after using the word b0rked, with a zero instead of an o? |
| 18:34.54 | don-o | ScaredyCat: he also started a sentance with the work And |
| 18:34.58 | bkruse | yay openmoko |
| 18:34.58 | don-o | s/work/word/ |
| 18:35.30 | __alurdun | Anyone know how many units are available. Are they gonna be sold out before I can get through? |
| 18:35.45 | aloril | SpeedEvil: in that case orders/[[P1_Owners]] ratio is clearly > 10x |
| 18:35.52 | ScaredyCat | the grammar police aren't what they used to be ;) |
| 18:35.57 | __alurdun | I'm anxious. My hacker future depends on getting my hands on one of these things (sad). |
| 18:36.14 | jedix | you could always wait for october |
| 18:36.15 | aloril | __alurdun: 1000 units, but parts are ready for additional manufacturing |
| 18:36.33 | *** join/#openmoko myk_ (n=chatzill@corp-242.mountainview.mozilla.com) |
| 18:36.36 | jedix | I want wifi, so I'm waiting |
| 18:36.40 | ScaredyCat | if your hacker future depended on it you should have been here last night |
| 18:36.46 | aloril | probably will add some delay, dunno how much (week? 2 weeks?) there is a week delay in shipping anyway ;-) |
| 18:36.53 | galexande | yeah you're just not hardcore enough!! |
| 18:36.58 | ScaredyCat | pussy |
| 18:37.00 | jedix | dunno if I want wiki $300 bad though |
| 18:37.19 | bkruse | are the units really shipping now? or is it backordered to no end :/ |
| 18:37.20 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 18:37.22 | aloril | hehe, it was announced it would be available 2007-07-09 and it was quite early in Taiwan time |
| 18:37.22 | jedix | s/wiki/wifi/ |
| 18:37.27 | bkruse | is there a "limited quantity"? |
| 18:37.31 | galexande | bkruse, shipping should begin around jul 16th |
| 18:37.36 | bkruse | galexande: great |
| 18:37.37 | galexande | bkruse, for the first 900 or so |
| 18:37.40 | __alurdun | ScaredyCat: My hacker future depends on getting enough sleep, as well. |
| 18:37.42 | aloril | bkruse: they are in China waiting for custom clearance, see topic |
| 18:37.45 | don-o | bkruse: everything is of limited quantity, except maybe hydrogen atoms :) |
| 18:37.47 | bkruse | galexande: you think the first 900 are already ordered? |
| 18:37.49 | aloril | or read whole mail at: |
| 18:37.50 | aloril | counter |
| 18:37.50 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-08 03:43) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter : Order https://direct.openmoko.com/ ; Shipping prob. 60% in a week, 2 days 17:22:09 (9.724±3.0 days) (1726;246) |
| 18:37.56 | galexande | bkruse, probably not, but it could possibly be close |
| 18:37.59 | bkruse | don-o: this is true... |
| 18:38.04 | bkruse | galexande: ahh! thank you :] |
| 18:38.06 | ScaredyCat | real hackers don't sleep, they timeslice |
| 18:38.25 | bkruse | Anyone from the asterisk and openmoko here? or anyone interested? |
| 18:38.36 | __alurdun | Yoiu're questioning my cred, aren't you ;) |
| 18:38.56 | ScaredyCat | no, just your dedication |
| 18:39.06 | *** join/#openmoko guest (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 18:39.11 | ScaredyCat | bkruse: they are 2 different projects |
| 18:40.00 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: I do not sleep either, partly because of redbull. |
| 18:40.14 | ScaredyCat | do you have wings? |
| 18:40.18 | bkruse | No :[ |
| 18:40.22 | ScaredyCat | :/ |
| 18:40.34 | bkruse | but @ 11pm tonight, wings are on |
| 18:40.38 | ScaredyCat | if you did you could fly about delivering openmoko's |
| 18:40.44 | *** join/#openmoko windpaw (n=alex@gentoo/developer/astinus) |
| 18:40.48 | bkruse | and I would without questioning a second |
| 18:40.52 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: 2 different projects? getting it running and then a "porting" project? |
| 18:41.07 | ScaredyCat | asterisk and openmoko |
| 18:41.41 | bkruse | yes, correct |
| 18:41.54 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-213-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:42.11 | Tronic | ScaredyCat: The word "b0rked" has a zero in it. I have never heard of the word "borked". |
| 18:42.13 | ScaredyCat | "<bkruse> Anyone from the asterisk and openmoko here? " |
| 18:42.28 | ScaredyCat | neither are real words. |
| 18:42.28 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 18:42.37 | bkruse | ahh, good point |
| 18:42.41 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: I am from asterisk. |
| 18:42.54 | bkruse | I meant the asterisk+openmoko "mini project" |
| 18:43.00 | bkruse | to get asterisk and openmoko to work with each other (obviously asterisk on openmoko) and I want to help :D |
| 18:43.04 | ScaredyCat | ahh k |
| 18:43.24 | ScaredyCat | ok, well... the first question ... |
| 18:43.56 | ScaredyCat | why would you want asterisk on openmoko... I can understand an iax2 phone, but asterisk? |
| 18:44.00 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-213-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:44.20 | ScaredyCat | I mean, other than "because you can" |
| 18:44.26 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: thats what I said. |
| 18:44.35 | __alurdun | Is there an additional shipping cost? I can't get to a checkout page to see a total. I need to check currency conversions for the total (I'm in Canada). |
| 18:44.36 | bkruse | obviously, you do not want to run your pbx from a 266mghz phone |
| 18:44.43 | ScaredyCat | lol, no |
| 18:44.45 | bkruse | EVEN THOUGh, you COULD probably route maybe 4 calls :D |
| 18:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-88-217-10-233.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:45.00 | bkruse | but ya, im thinking more of some cool clients........thats what i will be working on anyways... |
| 18:45.01 | galexande | alurdun, all international shipping is outrageous, like $80 |
| 18:45.03 | galexande | i think even canada |
| 18:45.08 | galexande | it ships from california via ups |
| 18:45.14 | koen|inverness | people run asterisk on 133MHz NAS devices |
| 18:45.16 | SpeedEvil | UPS is silly. |
| 18:45.19 | bkruse | I think the "devs" from that project are just going to sh configure; make;make install |
| 18:45.31 | mmazur | bkruse, asterisk on a wifi router and openmoko on a wifi-enabled phone maybe? |
| 18:45.32 | bkruse | koen|inverness: I am well aware, and for a small envirnment, it might be acceptable....maybe..... |
| 18:45.39 | bkruse | mmazur: very true |
| 18:45.46 | tunecel | we run asterisk on a wrap board |
| 18:45.52 | bkruse | openwrt has it packaged as one of their packages now, make it easily installable |
| 18:45.58 | bkruse | tunecel: right, I have done that too. |
| 18:46.02 | koen|inverness | I don't get the point of running asterisk on the neo either, but some people want it |
| 18:46.14 | koen|inverness | 'bitbake asterisk' is all you need |
| 18:46.20 | ScaredyCat | nas boxes are generally running of mains too... |
| 18:46.21 | bkruse | koen|inverness: I think it is more of a "I got asterisk on the neo" |
| 18:46.22 | tunecel | runs fine |
| 18:46.35 | __alurdun | galexande: Ouch. Plus duty, no doubt. |
| 18:46.36 | bkruse | not a production envirnment |
| 18:46.37 | tunecel | 10 calls with codec change |
| 18:46.48 | bkruse | but asterisk has PLENTY of features than could be heavily integrated to work with the neo closely |
| 18:47.07 | galexande | something tells me my decision to run mokomakefile on an nfs mount was a mistake |
| 18:47.07 | tunecel | www.asterina.at --> nano |
| 18:47.10 | bkruse | like bluetooth presence, gastman, manager control of asterisk, the asterisk GUI (just a browser...) etc etc |
| 18:47.16 | bkruse | tunecel: yep |
| 18:47.18 | galexande | since even "do_populate_staging" is taking forever |
| 18:47.21 | daMaestro | neo1973 as an asterisk client over wifi +1000 |
| 18:47.30 | daMaestro | and i really, really mean +1000 |
| 18:47.48 | ScaredyCat | bluetooth presence doesn;t need * on the phone... |
| 18:48.04 | tunecel | damaestro:or a gsm-gateway |
| 18:48.04 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: right, im talking STRICTLY about making it work well with asterisk... |
| 18:48.11 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@77.47.0.11.static.cablesurf.de) |
| 18:48.16 | bkruse | nothing is asterisk specific, but everything can be fully compatibile and easy to setup.... |
| 18:48.17 | daMaestro | tunecel, do you have to license the gsm band? |
| 18:48.21 | ScaredyCat | I'd rather build an iax client for the neo |
| 18:48.21 | bkruse | even some automatic setup between asterisk. |
| 18:48.26 | bkruse | http://www.digium.com/en/products/hardware/appliance.php |
| 18:48.29 | *** part/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-71-234-142-158.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 18:48.32 | tunecel | nope |
| 18:48.35 | daMaestro | tunecel, cool |
| 18:48.35 | ScaredyCat | to bypass all that sip/nat nastyness |
| 18:48.37 | *** join/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-71-234-142-158.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 18:48.41 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: thats what im doing :D |
| 18:48.58 | bkruse | that whole asterisk/openmoko dev call early was to state that :P |
| 18:49.01 | koen|inverness | the only thing I'd run asterisk on is a blackfin board |
| 18:49.07 | bkruse | koen|inverness: http://www.digium.com/en/products/hardware/appliance.php |
| 18:49.07 | ScaredyCat | ok, so you don;t need asterisk, just the iaxclient lib on sourceforge |
| 18:49.08 | tunecel | scaredcat:we are building one java iax client |
| 18:49.10 | koen|inverness | and only to test oslec :) |
| 18:49.16 | malsyned | When the wifi 1973 comes out, what will it take to get seamless VoIP call transfer like that new T-Mobile phone has? |
| 18:49.17 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 18:49.25 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: right! I am not saying put asterisk on there, but simply make it fully compatible with asterisk... |
| 18:49.33 | ScaredyCat | http://iaxclient.sourceforge.net/ |
| 18:49.46 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: yes. want to help? :D |
| 18:49.46 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) |
| 18:49.51 | ScaredyCat | it's basically a ready built library... |
| 18:49.56 | bkruse | malsyned: right, thats what I want. Seemless integration |
| 18:50.03 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: right, and a great library at that. |
| 18:50.19 | bkruse | we COULD do it from scratch, but for a proof of concept, do it with iaxclient |
| 18:50.21 | ScaredyCat | bkruse: I'm interested... but very busy... If I can spare the time I will |
| 18:50.34 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: I am very busy too |
| 18:50.38 | orospakr | I think integrating Telepathy with the Neo is a much more useful endeavour. |
| 18:50.41 | bkruse | I am hoping I can take work time to work on it, maybe... |
| 18:50.42 | ScaredyCat | well, we could probably cut out a lot of the librar... |
| 18:50.59 | koen|inverness | orospakr: lets make an asterisk backend for telepathy :) |
| 18:51.02 | malsyned | bkruse: asterisk is the quickest path to seamless GSM->WiFi call transfer? |
| 18:51.08 | minime | malsyned, shouldn't be to hard |
| 18:51.17 | bkruse | no, it wont |
| 18:51.19 | orospakr | koen|inverness: if you mean an IAX connection manager, it's in the works. |
| 18:51.22 | bkruse | and thats why I am doing it :P |
| 18:51.28 | bkruse | orospakr: explain? |
| 18:51.34 | minime | malsyned, after all its only checking for available internet ;) |
| 18:51.45 | orospakr | bkruse: explain what, in particular? |
| 18:51.52 | bkruse | "iax connection manager"? |
| 18:52.04 | orospakr | ah, OK. |
| 18:52.09 | koen|inverness | bkruse: http://www.gnome.org/mobile/ |
| 18:52.09 | malsyned | minime: there's nothing tricky about keeping the call up and running while transferring it? I would think you'd need cooperation from your GSM provider |
| 18:52.21 | orospakr | malsyned: yes, you would. |
| 18:52.29 | bkruse | koen|inverness: right, it might be as easy as porting an already existing softphone like ekiga, which is awesome. |
| 18:52.34 | *** join/#openmoko Triddle (n=tyler@c-67-189-71-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:52.40 | bkruse | But I do want to write one specifically for openmoko |
| 18:52.44 | koen|inverness | ekiga sucks in numeroous ways |
| 18:52.51 | orospakr | bkruse: in telepathy, things that plug it into protocols are called "connection managers" |
| 18:52.59 | koen|inverness | the most obvious is depending on p(w)(t)lib |
| 18:53.10 | orospakr | iax is hard one because it puts voice and signalling in the stream, so it needs a demuxer |
| 18:53.20 | bkruse | I realize that, trust me :] |
| 18:53.28 | bkruse | mark did it that way for a reason, nat/firewalls |
| 18:53.53 | bkruse | iax2 also supports text messaging, and video chat. |
| 18:53.54 | malsyned | bkruse: so you're working on a wifi VoIP client for openmoko, which will interact well with an asterix VoIP system? |
| 18:53.55 | ScaredyCat | iax is much better for roaming for that very reason |
| 18:53.55 | orospakr | and it doesn't fit *perfectly* with Telepathy, because it assumes that you have a separate RTP stream that gets sent to the Telepathy Stream Engine service. |
| 18:53.58 | koen|inverness | the other is piss poor integration with anything !ekiga out there for addressbook, remote operation, etc |
| 18:53.58 | orospakr | but that's getting fixed. |
| 18:54.03 | bkruse | malsyned: correct. |
| 18:54.05 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: exactly |
| 18:54.09 | *** part/#openmoko rgl (n=Rui@84.90.10.107) |
| 18:54.22 | bkruse | orospakr: well, voice/audio frames are sent on the same line, along with dtmf |
| 18:54.27 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 18:54.28 | bkruse | same port* |
| 18:54.37 | malsyned | bkruse: but it won't be able to keep a call live while transferring it from GSM to VoIP unless there is cooperation from the cell provider? |
| 18:54.51 | bkruse | malsyned: I am not SO sure about that...we will see. |
| 18:55.03 | ScaredyCat | there's no way.. |
| 18:55.04 | bkruse | that will have to be some trial and error testing |
| 18:55.07 | orospakr | bkruse: yeah, I know why IAX is the way it is. It's great from a user perspective. |
| 18:55.12 | *** join/#openmoko mintee (n=mintee@72-165-177-90.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 18:55.16 | bkruse | orospakr: correct. |
| 18:55.23 | bkruse | iax2 CAN build up packets, to burst when the connection comes back |
| 18:55.28 | malsyned | bkruse: how are you developing that without a wifi 1973? or are you an OpenMoko employee with kick ass prototypes on your desk? |
| 18:55.29 | bkruse | but that would only last so long.... |
| 18:55.36 | *** join/#openmoko cassidy (n=cassidy@146.82-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 18:55.42 | galexande | bt is fast enough for compressed audio |
| 18:55.46 | bkruse | malsyned: haha, no, i plan to develope, rather |
| 18:55.53 | bkruse | galexande: right, which it will be |
| 18:55.56 | galexande | i mean gsm is like 56kbits right? |
| 18:55.57 | koen|inverness | galexande: and uses far less power |
| 18:56.00 | ScaredyCat | the only people who can do that are the providers... simply because all the rtp/gsm traffic passesthrough them |
| 18:56.10 | bkruse | well we wouldnt be using ulaw as a codec obviously.... |
| 18:56.38 | koen|inverness | i'd go for speex, since that's optimized for just about any CPU (or DSP) you can think off |
| 18:56.41 | bkruse | ScaredyCat: kind of? I dont know, maybe we could strike a deal? maybe we could just do mass packet buffering, which is possible, and will seem like a delay in the voice, but nothing will get lost |
| 18:56.50 | bkruse | koen|inverness: good point, which is a pretty easy implementation also... |
| 18:56.51 | ScaredyCat | malsyned: usb host cable, powererd hub, wifi dongle? |
| 18:56.56 | orospakr | what I want to see on the OpenMoko UI is a common interface for making/receiving voice calls, be it by VOIP or GSM. Which, IMHO, is where I think Telepathy should come in. |
| 18:57.08 | Ophelia | does the OM really has translucent windows yet? |
| 18:57.09 | *** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-003-118.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:57.18 | koen|inverness | orospakr: will you attend guadec? |
| 18:57.35 | bkruse | orospakr: exactly, you are on the same page I am |
| 18:57.51 | malsyned | ScaredyCat: oh yeah. open platform. dur. the idea of a cell phone that can take advantage of arbitrary PC peripherals is going to take some getting used to. I haven't fully processed the implications, obviously. |
| 18:57.52 | orospakr | koen|inverness: hadn't planned on it. |
| 18:58.07 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 18:58.11 | Ophelia | VoIP? |
| 18:58.13 | Ophelia | that would be nice :-) |
| 18:58.34 | orospakr | koen|inverness: I'm not actually a Telepathy hacker, but I hang out in their IRC channel, and I've been using Telepathy for one of our projects. |
| 18:58.40 | orospakr | (our being my company) |
| 18:58.50 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@client-81-107-216-178.glfd.adsl.virgin.net) |
| 18:58.54 | koen|inverness | orospakr: I know |
| 18:59.07 | orospakr | koen|inverness: heh, your nick *is* familiar ;) |
| 18:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-170-218.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:59.37 | Kensan | bkruse: have you considered minisip? |
| 18:59.38 | ScaredyCat | he knew you were going to say that... |
| 18:59.54 | bkruse | Kensan: no, i want to do iax first.... |
| 19:00.24 | ScaredyCat | bkruse: it is a good point though, build it so you could plug in iax,sip etc. |
| 19:00.52 | ScaredyCat | or at least iax and sip.. h323 can f&*k right off |
| 19:01.11 | *** join/#openmoko hoschi (n=arndt@dslb-084-062-197-184.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:01.24 | koen|inverness | isn't minisip quite dead? |
| 19:01.30 | koen|inverness | and minisplat as well? |
| 19:01.53 | orospakr | I'm of the opinion that OpenMoko should hire Collabora to do this stuff. |
| 19:02.09 | Kensan | koen|inverness: no, minisip is still active. minisplat on the other hand might be. |
| 19:02.17 | koen|inverness | orospakr: I've been hinting at that for months |
| 19:02.33 | bkruse | h323? EWW |
| 19:02.40 | bkruse | koen|inverness: minisip is like libiax isnt it? |
| 19:02.42 | koen|inverness | Kensan: johan said something different when I last spoke to him (~march) |
| 19:02.43 | bkruse | old and barely works? |
| 19:02.51 | bkruse | oh, right, minisplat |
| 19:02.58 | bkruse | yes, so, basically, start with iax2, then do the sip integration |
| 19:03.04 | bkruse | (iax2 is going to be SO much easier, btw) |
| 19:03.16 | koen|inverness | I tried to resurrect minisip in OE, but they removed all tarballs and their svn is broken |
| 19:03.18 | bkruse | at least for me, because I know both of them pretty well, but iax2 more extensively |
| 19:03.31 | *** part/#openmoko rillian (n=giles@rain.thaumas.net) |
| 19:03.51 | Kensan | koen|inverness: there's still traffic on the dev-list. I have built minisip from svn a couple weeks ago. |
| 19:03.53 | orospakr | koen|inverness: maybe you can do apt-get source in debian and rescue the code that way. |
| 19:04.27 | koen|inverness | orospakr: too much work for an inactive project |
| 19:04.32 | jgm | Telepathy could be a really useful backend for all types of data (voice calls, SMS, 'traditional' IM etc.). I think the trick is going to be building out a suitable frontend so that it's all available without feeling like you're looking at a different interface for each |
| 19:04.38 | koen|inverness | I'd rather fix empathy in OE :) |
| 19:04.52 | orospakr | jgm: totally. :) |
| 19:05.30 | ewanm89_laptop | Mokomakefile problem: n I last spoke to him (~march) |
| 19:05.30 | ewanm89_laptop | 20:02:43 bkruse old and barely works? |
| 19:05.30 | ewanm89_laptop | 20:02:51 bkruse oh, right, minisplat |
| 19:05.51 | ewanm89_laptop | Mokomakefile problem: http://pastebin.ca/611012 |
| 19:05.59 | bkruse | ewanm89_laptop: ya, my apologies |
| 19:06.07 | jgm | orospakr, that's what I'm planning on playing with when my Neos arrive |
| 19:06.40 | ewanm89_laptop | bkruse: I think it was my mistake of using copy on select with a touchpad. |
| 19:07.20 | Kensan | koen|inverness: Just did a checkout from the minisip-repos: works fine for me. |
| 19:07.28 | *** join/#openmoko drear|laptop (n=drear@nblzone-208-36.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 19:07.33 | orospakr | jgm: :D |
| 19:07.38 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host8-57-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:08.08 | koen|inverness | Kensan: everything crosscompiles using OE as well? |
| 19:08.09 | alphaone | FYI: For anyone in the US there is now also a t-shirt shop at http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=128333 |
| 19:08.51 | ScaredyCat | should you buy official merhandisE? |
| 19:09.30 | Kensan | koen|inverness: I was just checking if the svn repos was broken since you mentioned that. |
| 19:09.36 | bkruse | so ya, maybe I should make a project for this on openmoko |
| 19:10.09 | ScaredyCat | yes... |
| 19:10.58 | *** join/#openmoko lextul (n=thomas@80.64.176.30) |
| 19:11.23 | alphaone | ScaredyCat: It's not really official. And I'll take it down as soon as OpenMoko starts selling their own stuff (which probably will be much cheaper anyway) |
| 19:11.42 | alphaone | ScaredyCat: But I did get permission to use the logo |
| 19:11.52 | ScaredyCat | fair enough... |
| 19:12.02 | Aria | Man, no girly tees? |
| 19:12.20 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware_Developer/it]] [[Debug_Board/it]] [[Wiggler/it]] [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] [[Debug_Board]] [[Talk:Neo1973_and_Windows]] [[GSM_07.07]] [[GSM]] [[Press_Coverage]] [[Gsmd]] [[P1_Owners]] [[Talk:Gsmd]] |
| 19:12.23 | ScaredyCat | the only girls you see? ;) |
| 19:13.15 | alphaone | Aria: Is there demand for girly tees? |
| 19:13.23 | Aria | I demand a girly tee. |
| 19:13.24 | Aria | Er. |
| 19:14.34 | alphaone | Aria: Okay, I'm occupied atm, but I'll get to it. What/where do you want the logo? |
| 19:14.38 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:15.01 | __alurdun | Some progress on the ordering front. The site returns a 500 error now, at least, rather than just doing nothing. |
| 19:15.09 | ScaredyCat | Fewd!!! |
| 19:15.34 | Aria | alphaone: I'm half teasing at the moment, since I'm out of cash for the thing, but I'd put it dead center. Y'know, breast-center. |
| 19:15.58 | alphaone | Aria: okay |
| 19:18.41 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-213-125.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:19.30 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:20.42 | bkruse | Did I hear something about openmoko shirts? apperal? |
| 19:21.09 | Aria | http://www.spreadshirt.com/shop.php?sid=128333 |
| 19:21.16 | aloril | sounds ordering page is pretty /.:ed |
| 19:21.24 | bkruse | nice. |
| 19:21.39 | bkruse | I want all of them! |
| 19:21.46 | bkruse | we should get one with the order of a 450 dev kit :P |
| 19:22.05 | ynezz | true :) |
| 19:22.14 | Fatal | meh, what's the difference between WORLDWIDE_EXPIDITED and SAVER ? |
| 19:23.18 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 19:23.26 | aloril | hihi, kinda of current but still outdated: http://www.techworld.com/mobility/news/index.cfm?newsID=9417&pagtype=samechan |
| 19:23.31 | PBeck | hi |
| 19:24.24 | aloril | hi PBeck |
| 19:24.44 | PBeck | hey aloril |
| 19:24.48 | tuukkah | Fatal, see ups web pages |
| 19:25.16 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:26.05 | Fatal | tuukkah: thanks |
| 19:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:29.09 | aloril | wiki works with https:// |
| 19:29.11 | *** join/#openmoko cassidy_ (n=cassidy@146.82-245-81.adsl-dyn.isp.belgacom.be) |
| 19:30.15 | juri_ | so, sold out yet? :) |
| 19:32.19 | Fatal | gneh, got to love getting a blank page after submitting CC information :P |
| 19:32.43 | *** join/#openmoko Arumnus__ (n=Moray@67-135-71-242.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 19:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko procto (n=procto@groucho.unet.brandeis.edu) |
| 19:33.39 | procto | whoa |
| 19:33.55 | procto | was the channel boingboing'd or was it like this before? |
| 19:33.55 | aloril | procto: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:34.11 | orospakr | procto: hey! |
| 19:34.12 | Fatal | procto: slashdotted and others |
| 19:34.15 | procto | heya orospakr ! |
| 19:34.17 | orospakr | procto: fancy see you in here ;) |
| 19:34.22 | orospakr | s/see/seeing/ |
| 19:34.29 | aloril | record yesterday was 318 nicks |
| 19:34.30 | orospakr | hurr hurr. nice bot. :) |
| 19:34.37 | procto | orospakr: I thought you were an OLPC goon :> |
| 19:34.44 | orospakr | procto: a little. |
| 19:34.57 | aloril | https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ works better now |
| 19:36.01 | __alurdun | Just figured out that my site problems were because of an incorrectly-formatted province code. |
| 19:36.31 | *** join/#openmoko nobody96 (n=nobody99@p5B220BFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:36.35 | aloril | (and changed trigger links to https for now) |
| 19:36.35 | *** part/#openmoko pike__ (n=happy@74-140-134-102.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 19:36.48 | procto | orospakr: I was planning on either a nokia n800 or a nokia e90 in the next couple of months |
| 19:37.01 | nobody96 | re |
| 19:37.02 | orospakr | procto: I would suggest the Neo, actually. :D |
| 19:37.17 | zecke|work | mickey_away: you have to take the survey :) |
| 19:37.53 | procto | orospakr: yeah, that's why I'm here |
| 19:37.56 | procto | it's less developed, sure |
| 19:38.02 | procto | but it looks to be better for my needs |
| 19:38.45 | procto | I'm going to start developing stuff for it |
| 19:38.48 | procto | and get GTA02 |
| 19:38.49 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:38.53 | procto | because wifi is a hard requirement for me |
| 19:39.13 | aloril | well.. 'sold out' because they have parts ready to manufacture more |
| 19:39.30 | procto | looks like GTA02 will also have accelerometers |
| 19:39.36 | procto | which is really good, since I've been developing stuff for accelerometers anyways |
| 19:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 19:39.52 | *** join/#openmoko Tob1 (n=tobi@p5B006A1A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:39.52 | procto | free samples ftw |
| 19:40.01 | SpeedEvil | There may be a kit available to plug into your P1 to get accels. |
| 19:40.04 | *** join/#openmoko adjaxio (n=adjaxio@81.56.215.221) |
| 19:40.06 | procto | I believe I got these ones from transmeta |
| 19:40.20 | procto | ah, no |
| 19:40.22 | SpeedEvil | Well - not really a kit. |
| 19:40.24 | procto | one of these others companies :> |
| 19:40.27 | SpeedEvil | More just plugin. |
| 19:43.02 | orospakr | I'm having to wait a few days while I wait for money to come in -- I sure hope I don't end up waiting a lot time for the next batch of gta01s to get built. |
| 19:43.02 | orospakr | s/lot/a lot/ |
| 19:43.02 | orospakr | er. |
| 19:43.02 | jedix | hey orospakr |
| 19:43.02 | orospakr | jedix: hey! |
| 19:43.02 | orospakr | s/lot/lot of/ |
| 19:43.02 | jedix | long time no see :) |
| 19:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko banux (n=banux@hraesvelg.helheim.net) |
| 19:43.14 | galexande | hey, what about a bluetooth gamepad |
| 19:43.22 | orospakr | jedix: definitely! you coming to Linux in the Wild? |
| 19:43.38 | jedix | orospakr: probably not, I've been quite busy lately |
| 19:43.45 | orospakr | harsh. |
| 19:43.56 | jedix | I don't mind it too much |
| 19:44.07 | orospakr | jedix: you |
| 19:44.09 | jedix | I've gotten to travel a bit |
| 19:44.16 | orospakr | 're working for clusterfs now, right? |
| 19:44.19 | jedix | yeah |
| 19:44.45 | jedix | how about you? |
| 19:45.35 | juri_ | hmm. it seems the ps3 controllers have been made to work with linux, wirelessly. |
| 19:45.52 | orospakr | I'm working for a company called Infoglobe, a Free Software-only consulting firm, basically. |
| 19:45.58 | jedix | juri_: yeah, something about init over usb first though |
| 19:45.58 | orospakr | I'm quite happy. |
| 19:46.38 | jedix | juri_: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a2rM5Zy5T5Y |
| 19:46.58 | juri_ | jedix: i don't support youtube. no flash here. |
| 19:47.12 | jedix | oh |
| 19:47.44 | juri_ | hmm. but pairing is required. |
| 19:48.04 | jedix | thry this one then: http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/29/sixaxis-linux-robot-were-in/ |
| 19:48.55 | *** part/#openmoko malsyned (n=dpl@c-71-234-142-158.hsd1.ct.comcast.net) |
| 19:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0EE2F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:50.49 | pjz | Neo shpping just showed up on linuxdevices.com |
| 19:52.28 | pjz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7355980470.html |
| 19:52.41 | procto | so, what sort of development commitment gives ya a free device? |
| 19:52.42 | procto | :> |
| 19:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko C7_ (n=C7@77-56-188-114.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:53.36 | *** join/#openmoko keitsi (n=keitsi@a91-153-244-32.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 19:55.33 | galexande | procto, visa will advance you the cash |
| 19:57.11 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@dyn1241-74.vpn.ic.ac.uk) |
| 19:59.14 | procto | galexande: must it always get down to the vulgarity of monetary transactions? |
| 19:59.16 | procto | oh well :> |
| 19:59.19 | procto | I'll wait for GTA02, then |
| 19:59.28 | procto | and in the meantime make pretty softwarez |
| 20:01.56 | *** part/#openmoko Triddle (n=tyler@c-67-189-71-114.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 20:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko _sev (n=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) |
| 20:02.21 | _sev | hi guys |
| 20:02.29 | bkruse | hello! |
| 20:02.51 | __alurdun | Is there a warranty on the Neo? Am I about to spend $400 on something that can only be used as a paperweight if a solder is badly done? |
| 20:03.13 | woglinde | pay 450 |
| 20:03.18 | woglinde | than you have jtag |
| 20:03.31 | _sev | looking at your Wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Shipping_Notes I wonder, whom should I talk about as to make an experiment. I want to have Neo shipped to Ukraine |
| 20:03.35 | *** part/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L3bbd.l.pppool.de) |
| 20:03.36 | astinus | __alurdun: Well you're about to spend $400 on something that, as yet, has almost no user software :P |
| 20:03.52 | woglinde | sev isnt that the same as to russia? |
| 20:04.32 | woglinde | sev perhaps that a lot more parcel get "missed" |
| 20:04.35 | _sev | woglinde: no, since I got Nokia770 successfully |
| 20:05.01 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej_ (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 20:05.12 | woglinde | _sev ;) |
| 20:05.33 | woglinde | _sev ups isnt deliviring to ukraine? |
| 20:05.37 | _sev | which way are they ship? FedEx or usual mail? |
| 20:05.38 | aloril | _sev: See https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:05.43 | tuukkah | umm, isn't Shipping Notes for the previous version of the phone, and before the shop was launched? |
| 20:05.47 | woglinde | _sev UPS |
| 20:05.48 | _sev | woglinde: UPS? fine. they work here |
| 20:06.07 | don-o | the linuxdevices story wrong on 3 major points |
| 20:07.04 | don-o | the phones havent been 'available to developers since march', its AGPS is not an 'additional similarity with the iPhone', and OpenMoko is not 'in the process of spinning out from parent company FIC'. |
| 20:07.39 | _sev | any reason why aloril bot provides HTTPS instead of plain HTTP? SSL version doesn't work now |
| 20:07.40 | astinus | don-o: I think they were referring to the Phase 0 stuff shipped to 30-40 people |
| 20:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L3bbd.l.pppool.de) |
| 20:08.15 | don-o | astinus: yeah i think you're right but he makes it sound like they were being sold on a website |
| 20:08.32 | *** join/#openmoko pygi (n=mario@89-172-200-65.adsl.net.t-com.hr) |
| 20:08.45 | woglinde | p0 and p1 phones |
| 20:09.02 | Basheri | if it only would say base developers |
| 20:10.40 | don-o | does the base kit come with that pelican case? that looks like it would eat up the extra $150 by itself |
| 20:11.01 | don-o | s/base kit/developer kit/ |
| 20:12.52 | _sev | woglinde: still. Is there a person whom I can talk about it, or just go ahead and use the order form? |
| 20:13.16 | woglinde | _sev use the orderform when it is avaible again |
| 20:14.02 | _sev | what do you mean available again? It's up there now. Or you mean that the gadget is out of stock? |
| 20:14.36 | woglinde | sev the website had/have some problems |
| 20:15.08 | _sev | ah, that. Well, for me it was just Wiki which had (and still has) problems |
| 20:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko zedstar (n=john@82-44-202-121.cable.ubr08.haye.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:18.53 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178093075.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 20:19.54 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:21.58 | pjz | don-o: apparently so |
| 20:21.59 | tuukkah | don-o, what's happening between fic and openmoko if not spin-off? |
| 20:22.33 | don-o | tuukkah: is there something i missed? got a url? |
| 20:23.18 | tuukkah | i got that impression from the announcement |
| 20:24.21 | tuukkah | "And OpenMoko -- the project will officially become OpenMoko -- the company." |
| 20:24.55 | tuukkah | "Now that OpenMoko is officially a company inside the FIC Group" |
| 20:25.43 | don-o | that doesnt sound like a spinoff to me |
| 20:26.05 | koen|inverness | openmoko inc sounds more like via than like htc |
| 20:26.08 | don-o | certainly a reorganization |
| 20:26.12 | koen|inverness | (in relation fo FIC) |
| 20:26.39 | zecke|work | bbl |
| 20:27.45 | tuukkah | don-o, well, i'd think spin-off and spin-out can be almost any reorganization where a part of a company becomes a new company |
| 20:28.12 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:29.10 | *** join/#openmoko hoschi (n=arndt@dslb-084-061-169-067.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:30.34 | tuukkah | (even if the new company remains 100% owned by the parent company and retains close ties to it - but i may be wrong) |
| 20:32.03 | *** part/#openmoko Ophelia (n=Ophelia@p54B921EC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:34.47 | *** join/#openmoko FuzzyCat (n=andy@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
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| 21:01.25 | *** part/#openmoko wonderblood (n=christia@L3bbd.l.pppool.de) |
| 21:05.50 | FuzzyCat | Stephmw[away]: just fyi ... |
| 21:06.26 | FuzzyCat | if you use ccache, remember to clear it if you switch between arm and x86 :) |
| 21:07.20 | don-o | heehee |
| 21:08.01 | FuzzyCat | it suddenly clicked... why it wouldn't compile :) |
| 21:11.37 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:Hardware/it]] [[User:Gualti]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2/it]] [[Connecting_Neo1973_with_Debug_Board_v2]] [[Talk:Main_Page/it]] [[User:Milo]] [[Main_Page/it]] [[OpenMoko]] [[OpenMoko/it]] and other changes |
| 21:12.17 | pygi | wiki is back, yay :D |
| 21:13.17 | juri_ | hmm. still no confirmation mail. |
| 21:13.40 | juri_ | this is the complaint channel, right? no-one develops here, no sirree.. ;) |
| 21:16.30 | *** join/#openmoko HWiz (n=ulrik@cpe.atm2-0-1141069.0x50a37492.albnxx15.customer.tele.dk) |
| 21:20.13 | xkr47 | juri_, do you know if you have greylist filtering on your mail server? |
| 21:20.39 | xkr47 | I had on mine and the confirmation got lost.. |
| 21:22.32 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@132.pool85-50-120.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 21:22.55 | Mandarino | Somebody saw planet.openmoko.org ? |
| 21:24.15 | juri_ | xkr: theres spam filtering, but i don't know why it would have blocked openmoko... |
| 21:24.39 | xkr47 | did you check the logs to see if there was any mail incoming ? |
| 21:25.21 | xkr47 | Mandarino, sure :) |
| 21:26.12 | xkr47 | Mandarino, there's a link to it from www.openmoko.org, the developer portal site |
| 21:26.31 | juri_ | yay. one week into a three week long project, i'm 5 days behind, and my deadline has been pushed up a week. |
| 21:27.07 | xkr47 | sounds like 5 weeks to go |
| 21:27.13 | xkr47 | good luck juri_ |
| 21:29.50 | zedstar | anyone know if the community mailing list down or has my gmail account gone tits up? |
| 21:30.22 | *** join/#openmoko zecke|work (n=ich@88.134.98.145) |
| 21:30.58 | SpeedEvil | (from community) |
| 21:31.06 | slider_ | no mails since 10 hours or so |
| 21:31.14 | zedstar | ah similar for me |
| 21:31.18 | xkr47 | same here |
| 21:31.34 | SpeedEvil | Mon, 09 Jul 2007 10:36:00 +0000 |
| 21:31.37 | carrar | do need need email help? |
| 21:31.38 | SpeedEvil | last one |
| 21:31.39 | carrar | they |
| 21:31.40 | xkr47 | exactly! |
| 21:32.02 | xkr47 | carrar, send an email and ask *grin* |
| 21:32.09 | carrar | heh |
| 21:32.16 | carrar | I'm thinking they might take it the wrong way |
| 21:32.31 | xkr47 | I think the whole openmoko team is sleeping for 24 hours.. I assume they've been working day and night for some weeks now |
| 21:32.42 | SpeedEvil | A little list... (of people not to get Neos) |
| 21:32.49 | xkr47 | at least LaForge quit irc yesterday right after the announcement with the quit message "Zzz.." |
| 21:33.21 | xkr47 | maybe the list was flooded and crashed |
| 21:33.52 | xkr47 | anyone know if you can extend your already-placed order by a phone or two? |
| 21:34.20 | xkr47 | if you don't, then I guess I'll reply to my confirmation mail and ask.. |
| 21:34.20 | zedstar | so anybody who bought a neo and got a confirmation get another one saying order was processed? |
| 21:34.37 | xkr47 | not yet |
| 21:34.37 | carrar | I'm still waiting for my 1st email from yesterdays order |
| 21:35.04 | carrar | or anyone from sales@ to reply |
| 21:35.06 | xkr47 | carrar, you can ask roh for help.. he can check if your order came through (if you ask politely) |
| 21:35.06 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: I'd go through the order process again, and say 'if possible, can this be added to my earlier order' |
| 21:35.27 | carrar | I tried this morning but I think he left |
| 21:36.08 | zedstar | i wanted to send another email to ask for a black/silver but thought i would hold off as they are probably snowed under |
| 21:36.11 | xkr47 | well he's at least on irc now.. dunno |
| 21:36.29 | xkr47 | zedstar, :) |
| 21:36.49 | zedstar | right now ill take any colour :) |
| 21:36.52 | xkr47 | would be funny if those who didn't say get a green one :D |
| 21:37.08 | zedstar | pink! |
| 21:37.10 | carrar | forest greem would rock |
| 21:37.12 | carrar | green |
| 21:37.25 | xkr47 | I hope there'll be more options later for cheap price |
| 21:37.34 | xkr47 | maybe you can get a set of 10 colors for $20 or smth :) |
| 21:37.38 | SpeedEvil | np: BlackBox Recorder - British Racing Green. |
| 21:38.31 | zedstar | i wonder if the order id has any significance to the number ordered |
| 21:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko Suvarov[work] (n=damouj@64.129.18.10) |
| 21:39.11 | zedstar | if so i was near 2000 ;) |
| 21:39.22 | SpeedEvil | It started at 1820 |
| 21:39.32 | SpeedEvil | so 2000 was about order number 180 at least |
| 21:39.33 | zedstar | phew lol |
| 21:40.25 | summatusmentis | order id started at 1820? why/ |
| 21:40.25 | summatusmentis | testing? |
| 21:40.25 | SpeedEvil | REused old counter. |
| 21:40.31 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 21:40.44 | daMaestro | and, why would you *not* have a 1973 order number within the first 1000 devices sold? |
| 21:40.49 | daMaestro | it just makes sense ;-) |
| 21:41.06 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 21:41.12 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.77.154) |
| 21:41.13 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:41.14 | flingpoo | What's the current state of the software? |
| 21:41.22 | SpeedEvil | Rudimentary. |
| 21:41.24 | daMaestro | hopefully it is a "sign from the unknown" that order number 1973 is the "divine one" |
| 21:41.25 | daMaestro | lol |
| 21:41.27 | SpeedEvil | It's not a user phone at the moment. |
| 21:41.31 | don-o | flingpoo: steaming and moist :) |
| 21:41.42 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: it's barely even a phone, right? |
| 21:41.57 | SpeedEvil | It's an small X-windows device which happens to be shaped like a phone, and have some rudimentary phone software on it. |
| 21:42.04 | carrar | heh |
| 21:42.05 | don-o | summatusmentis: thats what 500 people are about to find out :) |
| 21:42.12 | zedstar | lol |
| 21:42.12 | carrar | can it call out and receive calls? |
| 21:42.21 | SpeedEvil | carrar: yes. Mostly. |
| 21:42.21 | *** join/#openmoko faded515 (n=faded515@cpc3-hatf4-0-0-cust973.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 21:42.23 | carrar | SOLD! |
| 21:42.31 | SpeedEvil | carrar: but no SMS, ... |
| 21:42.43 | ewon | is anyone reading sales@openmoko.com? |
| 21:42.45 | carrar | My Razer works .... mostly |
| 21:42.46 | Mandarino | SpeedEvil: !!!!! ;) |
| 21:42.54 | Suvarov[work] | Has anyone been able to display youtube movies on a Neo1973? |
| 21:42.55 | aloril | Suvarov[work]: See https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:42.57 | tuukkah | who needs sms but i would need gprs |
| 21:43.19 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, can I have that sentence on a t-shirt :) |
| 21:43.29 | carrar | will it support sms? |
| 21:43.33 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A34ADD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:43.33 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 21:43.35 | xkr47 | (the "It's a small.." =) |
| 21:43.40 | carrar | could write some app to do that |
| 21:43.41 | zedstar | gpsd running be nice also |
| 21:43.57 | roh | have fun. if the webserver burns down now.. send me a sms.. i'm having a drink |
| 21:44.04 | Suvarov[work] | aloril: many thanks! /me goes off to follow the link |
| 21:44.10 | xkr47 | roh, cheers!! |
| 21:44.41 | summatusmentis | Suvarov[work]: as in, videos from youtube.com? doubtful |
| 21:44.50 | xkr47 | if I could send you money, I'd give a free round to all moko guys at the bar :) |
| 21:44.51 | woglinde | ybye roh |
| 21:44.51 | CM | roh: Great work! :) |
| 21:45.05 | xkr47 | or maybe 20 ppl at most :) |
| 21:45.36 | Suvarov[work] | summatusmentis: actually, I'm more interested in other Flash apps, but youtube is a popular request in the gnash project |
| 21:46.09 | summatusmentis | Suvarov[work]: at this point, the neo barely is considered a phone... there's dialler, and gps |
| 21:46.17 | *** part/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@132.pool85-50-120.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 21:46.20 | summatusmentis | might be something else minimal, but pretty unlikely |
| 21:46.58 | Suvarov[work] | summatusmentis: strangely enough, I'm just looking for a handheld, wireless device that can display X (or whatever) with a fair-to-decent battery life |
| 21:47.27 | Suvarov[work] | The Neo1973 has a good form factor and display |
| 21:47.27 | xkr47 | neo is like buying your soul back from the devil.. you lose the "you can have anything" deal but you are free |
| 21:47.31 | xkr47 | :) |
| 21:47.56 | xkr47 | I could have that on a t-shirt too :) |
| 21:47.59 | *** join/#openmoko jimp (n=jim@NEUROSIS.MIT.EDU) |
| 21:48.09 | flingpoo | How does one type into the Neo? USB keyboard or is there already a touch-screen keyboard? |
| 21:48.29 | pygi | fletch, second :) |
| 21:48.42 | xkr47 | flingpoo, http://www.openmoko.com/products-neo-base-02-screenshots.html |
| 21:51.21 | happycube | speaking of it sounds like iphone is using fuzzy logic - comparing the distances between keys in querty against a dictionary |
| 21:51.43 | happycube | too bad that's probably patented up the wazoo ;) |
| 21:52.02 | sixfeet | n8 |
| 21:52.10 | thomasg_gpm | lol, trolltech fires in the direction of openmoko :) http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2007/07/09/meanwhile-back-at-the-ranch/ |
| 21:52.14 | xkr47 | n8 sixfeet |
| 21:52.17 | flingpoo | Is the Neo powerful enough to self-compile or is it mandatory to work with another machine? |
| 21:52.26 | sixfeet | ^^ |
| 21:52.29 | woglinde | flingoo you can use ahe bluetooth keyboard too |
| 21:52.52 | xkr47 | giving enough swap, any linux can build itself ?-DD |
| 21:52.54 | woglinde | flingpoo you dont want compile at the moko |
| 21:52.58 | flingpoo | woglinde: I don't trust wireless keyboards. =) |
| 21:54.14 | happycube | there's nothing really blocking a qtopia neo1973 build is there? ;) |
| 21:54.14 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, interesting |
| 21:54.16 | flingpoo | It'd be nice to compile and debug the phone program during the daily commute... "Why won't you dial?!?!" |
| 21:54.27 | thomasg_gpm | pygi, indeed it is :) |
| 21:54.31 | xkr47 | flingpoo, :) |
| 21:54.46 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, never found that greenphone too interesting tho |
| 21:54.51 | happycube | ... unless of course there were non-free bits. |
| 21:55.02 | thomasg_gpm | pygi, but also the pricing. partly proprietary sdk, partly proprietary hpone platform, completely closed hardware. $900 |
| 21:55.10 | woglinde | pygi the greenphone is nice |
| 21:55.23 | ljp | that wasnt trolltech, that was just a trolltech engineer |
| 21:55.28 | woglinde | problem is the 2.4 kernel and closed modules |
| 21:55.38 | pygi | woglinde, might be, however was never interested too much in it, so can't speak really |
| 21:55.57 | ljp | woglinde: you do kernel hacking, then? |
| 21:56.10 | thomasg_gpm | ljp, an official trolltech engineer on a official trolltech page |
| 21:56.15 | don-o | does anyone know what version of openmoko (if any) has been flashed to the shipping devices? |
| 21:56.22 | don-o | seems like the repo would be tagged for that |
| 21:56.24 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, isn't it $695 USD? |
| 21:56.37 | woglinde | lorn sorry no |
| 21:56.39 | thomasg_gpm | pygi, on the site I could only find $890 |
| 21:56.45 | ljp | one voice in manu doesnt speak for the whole company |
| 21:56.45 | thomasg_gpm | and $199 for the sdk only |
| 21:56.50 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphone_pricing |
| 21:57.16 | woglinde | hm blog is blog |
| 21:57.24 | woglinde | dont know if there is a disclaimer |
| 21:57.32 | thomasg_gpm | pygi, ok, my fault, just looked here: http://www.shoptrolltech.com/do/page/SDKLight |
| 21:57.50 | *** join/#openmoko gnu_ (n=gnu@quiet.toad.com) |
| 21:57.56 | pygi | woglinde, it's nevertheless interesting to see what others think |
| 21:57.58 | ljp | TT was also giving away greenphones to develoeprs |
| 21:58.21 | gnu_ | wiki.openmoko.org is down ("Can't contact the database server"). |
| 21:58.36 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, that's ofcourse a device with community SDK |
| 21:58.52 | don-o | flingpoo: (re: neo self-compiling) awesome idea but seeing as how my core duo machine takes 8+ hours to download/build openmoko, it doesnt seem practical |
| 21:59.05 | thomasg_gpm | pygi, yes, like I said, my fault |
| 21:59.13 | thomasg_gpm | but anyway - it's expensive. |
| 21:59.19 | thomasg_gpm | and: it's proprietary |
| 21:59.46 | thomasg_gpm | so yet another phone with a partly opensourced plattform |
| 22:00.37 | webjames | ubuntu is doing a mobile platform, but not as in mobile phone, like an Internet tablet |
| 22:00.38 | ljp | even the 1973 has closed parts to it |
| 22:01.27 | Kensan | ljp, I assume you did that blog post. Can you give some insights on the greenphone and how it compares to the neo1973? |
| 22:01.41 | cjb | greenphone isn't open at all, is it? |
| 22:01.49 | ljp | qtopia is open source |
| 22:01.58 | Suvarov[work] | webjames: have you a link to ubuntu's web tablet? |
| 22:01.59 | ljp | i dont have a neo yet |
| 22:02.09 | woglinde | cjb kernel modules and some apps are closed |
| 22:02.11 | ljp | gp has more flash and less ram |
| 22:02.18 | ljp | err vice versa |
| 22:02.32 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 22:02.41 | ljp | yes, gp got stuck with some closed kernel modules |
| 22:02.42 | webjames | Suvarov[work], https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded |
| 22:02.57 | Suvarov[work] | webjames: thank you kindly! |
| 22:03.09 | ynezz | ljp: competition is always good :) |
| 22:03.13 | webjames | Suvarov[work], that has links, it'll be released with the coming 7.10 gutsy gibbon |
| 22:03.24 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@200-193-152-9.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 22:03.31 | ljp | who says neo is competition? |
| 22:03.33 | webjames | ynezz, two different fields really |
| 22:03.45 | ynezz | openmoko |
| 22:04.10 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 22:04.21 | ljp | neo is a consumer device, gp is a developer reference board |
| 22:04.32 | ynezz | i'm talking about moko/qtopia |
| 22:04.37 | mmazur | Neo hopefully will be a consumer device :) |
| 22:04.58 | ynezz | i personaly don't like c++, so i don't use qt |
| 22:05.28 | summatusmentis | does anyone know if telcos will be selling the neo? |
| 22:05.43 | webjames[bed] | night |
| 22:05.54 | summatusmentis | goodnight webjames[bed] |
| 22:06.00 | woglinde | nite webjames |
| 22:06.08 | *** part/#openmoko Suvarov[work] (n=damouj@64.129.18.10) |
| 22:06.15 | ynezz | summatusmentis: who knows, we still don't have p1 confirmation orders :) |
| 22:06.24 | webjames[bed] | :) night |
| 22:06.27 | summatusmentis | ynezz: oh really? |
| 22:06.27 | procto | what's the progress with python? no infoz on the wiki before it went down, the projects site claims it's 0%, but I see some samples on openmoko planet |
| 22:06.43 | woglinde | procto what pyhton? |
| 22:06.49 | woglinde | pyhton in general |
| 22:06.54 | pygi | woglinde, he probably menat python :) |
| 22:06.54 | ynezz | bindings |
| 22:06.55 | woglinde | or python bindings? |
| 22:07.10 | thomasg_gpm | ljp, gp has less ram and more flash, that was correct. but the only closed part in the neo is the gps (that will change) and the gsm-core (what won't be allowed to change) |
| 22:07.13 | procto | hmm, what's the difference? |
| 22:07.13 | woglinde | zecke hacked a little bit |
| 22:07.39 | woglinde | python is python in generla the interpreted language |
| 22:07.58 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, will the gps module be changed for gta02 or later on? |
| 22:08.04 | woglinde | python bindings for openmoko is that you cann control parts of openmoko via python |
| 22:08.22 | procto | woglinde: ok, so I actually knew that :> but I was a bit confused, I'm clearer now, thanks |
| 22:08.29 | ynezz | ljp: why you personally dislike LGPL? |
| 22:08.36 | procto | what I was wondering is if I can write a .py file and have it run in openmoko |
| 22:08.45 | procto | i.e. is the interpreter ported |
| 22:08.46 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:09.02 | procto | otherwise, would bindings work? |
| 22:09.15 | woglinde | prcoto oe compiles python nicely |
| 22:09.27 | zecke | woglinde: si? |
| 22:10.11 | stefan|paris | bon soir |
| 22:10.18 | woglinde | zecke procto wants to know everything about pyhton on the neo |
| 22:10.36 | pygi | ljp, and the term "the first open source Linux phone" you used for OpenMoko would not be correct. It's not about being open source, but being free |
| 22:10.41 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=Guillaum@AMontsouris-153-1-32-60.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:10.52 | procto | ah, oe, I haven't read much about the toolchain since the wiki's barely working, but I'm reading it now |
| 22:11.17 | pygi | procto, yea, down for a long time now :-/ |
| 22:11.31 | procto | I was able to read much of the wiki earlier today |
| 22:11.33 | procto | it was pretty snappy |
| 22:11.37 | happycube | i'm in the wiki right now |
| 22:11.46 | procto | so am I, I just have to try about 2-3 times for each page |
| 22:12.16 | woglinde | pygi in the term of open source ljp is right |
| 22:12.51 | pygi | woglinde, perhaps, but nobody said openmoko phone is the first open source phone |
| 22:13.10 | SpeedEvil | It pretty much is - aimed at mass market IMO. |
| 22:13.22 | pygi | SpeedEvil, well, it's the first free phone |
| 22:13.31 | woglinde | pygi sorry but some articles do |
| 22:13.41 | pygi | woglinde, o well, articles |
| 22:13.43 | SpeedEvil | Open source + free is pretty much required IMO to be useful. |
| 22:13.56 | SpeedEvil | free without open source is substantially less useful. |
| 22:15.09 | procto | zecke: so atm oe compiled python into elf which runs on openmoko? |
| 22:15.14 | thomasg_gpm | pygi, afaik it is planned to replace the hammerhead with a gps with free drivers |
| 22:15.20 | ninHer | hi all |
| 22:15.38 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, hopefully for gta02 :) |
| 22:15.40 | zecke | procto: python is interpreted, unless you use PyPy or similiar technologies |
| 22:15.41 | pygi | just reading on it |
| 22:15.52 | SpeedEvil | thomasg_gpm: I've never heard anyone in the core team say that. |
| 22:16.05 | procto | zecke: that's what I thought, but woglinde just said "< woglinde> prcoto oe compiles python nicely" |
| 22:16.05 | SpeedEvil | thomasg_gpm: there are plans to write an open-source driver for the hammerhead. |
| 22:16.07 | zecke | procto: python works on OpenMoko just like any other platform running the CPython implementation |
| 22:16.20 | procto | ah |
| 22:16.24 | thomasg_gpm | SpeedEvil, maybe I'm wrong, or maybe the guys I heard was wrong :) |
| 22:16.29 | SpeedEvil | thomasg_gpm: and the hammerhead has cost and possible performance advantages over competitors. |
| 22:16.30 | zecke | procto: compiles the CPython implementation nicely |
| 22:16.30 | procto | zecke: so the interpreter actually runs? |
| 22:16.30 | SpeedEvil | thomasg_gpm |
| 22:16.39 | thomasg_gpm | but at least it's planned to have free drivers for the gps |
| 22:16.56 | SpeedEvil | : it's something I've heard from many sources, but none that seem connected with actually deciding that. |
| 22:17.02 | zecke | procto: sure |
| 22:17.10 | SpeedEvil | thomasg_gpm: and anyway - it doesn't matter. |
| 22:17.16 | thomasg_gpm | SpeedEvil, might be. maybe the hammerhead is a real good chip, but free drivers would be nice. |
| 22:17.19 | SpeedEvil | thomasg_gpm: it can run in a chroot |
| 22:17.27 | SpeedEvil | thomasg_gpm: as an unpriviledged user |
| 22:17.32 | xkr47 | oh no, the wiki is down |
| 22:17.34 | thomasg_gpm | everything is possible :) |
| 22:17.35 | pygi | thomasg_gpm, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS#Q:_The_chip_in_the_Neo1973_is_a_Global_Locate_AGPS._Anybody_know_what_type.3F_Hammerhead_maybe.3F |
| 22:17.56 | woglinde | oh no |
| 22:17.59 | procto | zecke: so the projects.openmoko.org site is out of date? since it states that python-opemnoko is still in planning stage |
| 22:18.01 | woglinde | 2 bad decisions |
| 22:18.07 | xkr47 | ok it works again.. temporary overload.. |
| 22:18.08 | woglinde | first apache and now mysql |
| 22:18.14 | *** join/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:20.40 | zecke | procto: well openmoko-bindings has 100% coverage of openmokoui, ~80% of gsmd, and a pending patch to mokojournal to be bindable |
| 22:20.45 | andylockran | can we get the creator of the mokomakefile to specify bash in his scripts... this dash problem has made me feel rather silly... |
| 22:21.14 | zecke | procto: most of the C examples for openmoko have python examples as well, and there is an example stylus app written in python using the bindings |
| 22:21.33 | *** part/#openmoko ds3 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 22:21.47 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:22.11 | *** join/#openmoko Hadaka (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) |
| 22:22.12 | ajmitch | zecke: very nice |
| 22:22.22 | xkr47 | yeah nice |
| 22:22.29 | Hadaka | are the lists down? |
| 22:22.37 | SpeedEvil | prolly |
| 22:22.47 | SpeedEvil | last community 11 hours ago here |
| 22:23.02 | Hadaka | rite, thanks |
| 22:23.13 | Hadaka | well then, a speculation to pass the time |
| 22:24.14 | Hadaka | when I ordered my phone, I got this in the return mail: "Your order has been assigned an ID of [rt.internal.openmoko.org #2XXX]." |
| 22:24.25 | Hadaka | (the X's are just to hide the exact number, just in case it matters) |
| 22:24.25 | SpeedEvil | It started at 1820 |
| 22:24.41 | Hadaka | ahha! okay, well that was my question :) |
| 22:24.59 | hads | Welcome to #psycics :) |
| 22:25.15 | SpeedEvil | It's probable that there have been at least n-1820 orders. |
| 22:25.20 | Hadaka | okay, mine starts 23XX, so that means probably 500 phones sold |
| 22:25.22 | SpeedEvil | But, maybe more phones. |
| 22:25.56 | SpeedEvil | hadaka: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/P1_Owners |
| 22:26.11 | procto | zecke: yup, I saw your post, and looked at the code. it looks really fucking sweet, if you don't mind my saying it :> |
| 22:26.59 | Hadaka | SpeedEvil: thanks |
| 22:27.01 | *** part/#openmoko _sev (n=sev@scummvm/undead/sev) |
| 22:30.10 | [lankester] | it's normal that I got no confirmation |
| 22:30.11 | [lankester] | ? |
| 22:31.22 | woglinde | lankester server is overloaded I guess |
| 22:34.03 | [lankester] | ok thx :) |
| 22:34.05 | flingpoo | Do the GPS and GSM chips just show up as serial devices magically, or is a separate driver needed to access them? |
| 22:34.45 | Elrond | flingpoo - They're connected to real rs232. |
| 22:35.05 | Elrond | flingpoo - the SoC really has 3 rs232 connections. |
| 22:37.09 | Psi_ | as in +12 -12? |
| 22:37.17 | Elrond | No. |
| 22:37.47 | Elrond | (0V, 3.3V) I think. I'm not 100% sure. We would need to check the CPU manual. |
| 22:38.16 | Psi_ | simple to convert though with a MAX232 :) |
| 22:38.26 | Elrond | Exactly. |
| 22:38.42 | Elrond | I don't know, if any max232 are in there. |
| 22:39.07 | Elrond | You could try to locate some on koen's pics. :) |
| 22:39.49 | SpeedEvil | I wish that the GPS was also on the SPI bus... |
| 22:40.21 | alphaone | For communication with the gsm and gps a max 232 is not necessary. |
| 22:40.50 | SpeedEvil | It is - for the GSM - if you're not using a debug board. |
| 22:41.26 | SpeedEvil | But, you can do that in software. |
| 22:41.49 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - What would be the benefit of gps-on-spi? |
| 22:42.08 | *** join/#openmoko acidjazz_ (i=acidjazz@notchill.com) |
| 22:42.18 | *** join/#openmoko intarwebz (n=intarweb@unaffiliated/intarwebz) |
| 22:42.19 | acidjazz_ | so whats w/ no data on this? its gprs? not even edge? |
| 22:42.30 | intarwebz | acidjazz_: you got one? |
| 22:42.32 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: I'm contemplating adding a PIC, some RAM on SPI, and a couple of accelerometers. |
| 22:42.47 | acidjazz_ | no i just read about how theres not even edge or anything on it |
| 22:43.10 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah... but what would you win with gps-on-spi? |
| 22:43.11 | acidjazz_ | how can this thing have AGPS but not edge or 3g? |
| 22:43.18 | astinus | . . . |
| 22:43.23 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: this would do stuff like the normal accelerometer stuff, as well as buffering audio while in slow mode, and if GPS was available on SPI, it could be logged with the CPU off. |
| 22:43.28 | astinus | i think that was adequately explained, "Keeping the costs down" |
| 22:43.31 | intarwebz | acidjazz_: yah....open source stuff is always slower hardware wise because the software genius of the community is always sapped out and applied to things like the iphone |
| 22:43.35 | SpeedEvil | acidjazz_: because it can. |
| 22:43.44 | woglinde | aidjazz because of the cellphonemodul? |
| 22:43.50 | happycube | bit late to ask but will debug board v2 work with gta02? |
| 22:43.56 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - The gps needs to be fed constantly with requests. |
| 22:43.57 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 22:45.01 | happycube | thought so |
| 22:45.01 | acidjazz_ | im talking about internet bandwidth |
| 22:45.01 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: yes - a PIC GPS driver would need to be implemented :) |
| 22:45.01 | acidjazz_ | internet over GPRS is ancient, edge is a little faster and 3g is nice, so is HSDPA, etc. |
| 22:45.01 | *** join/#openmoko fletch (n=fletch@doener.lieferservice.cc) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 22:45.01 | astinus | acidjazz_: it's almost impossible to find totally 'open' 3G or EDGE bits, and they are hella expensive |
| 22:45.01 | arachnid | That or a GPS that actually does its own work instead of making the CPU do it ;) |
| 22:45.03 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, the main cpu can do gps in slow mode, I think. |
| 22:45.03 | acidjazz_ | astinus: oh i see what you're saying |
| 22:45.03 | astinus | acidjazz_: most people don't want a $1000 phone |
| 22:45.15 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: true - but if you've got a micro that uses 1mW sitting there doing nothing... |
| 22:45.16 | acidjazz_ | well they were able to get GPS in there and have it be $300 |
| 22:45.31 | acidjazz_ | would edge or 3g cost another $700 ? |
| 22:45.46 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah. So you consider "cpu off, pic doing jobs". |
| 22:45.49 | SpeedEvil | acidjazz_: it's unfortunately not cheap. |
| 22:45.56 | woglinde | acidjazz most people dont even know what edge ist |
| 22:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko mikini (n=miki@x1-6-00-50-04-32-23-2b.k94.webspeed.dk) |
| 22:46.27 | acidjazz_ | i have yet to get a reaonsable excuse minus astinus' 'open' |
| 22:46.49 | acidjazz_ | astinus: how is it 'open' its gsm we gotta sign up w/ a phone company and cingular, at&t and soon tmobile all have 3g and all have edge. |
| 22:47.00 | unknown_lamer | are edge parts really that expensive? My last roommate had a cheapo 'free' phone that one of the slower edge classes (200some kbit/s) |
| 22:47.07 | acidjazz_ | not as expensive as AGPS |
| 22:47.16 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 22:47.17 | acidjazz_ | thats for sure |
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| 22:48.01 | SpeedEvil | acidjazz_: also - GSM is worldwide. All the faster alternatives (apart from edge) are local markets only. |
| 22:48.15 | acidjazz_ | SpeedEvil: i konw im mainly tlaking about the US |
| 22:49.33 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: pretty much. |
| 22:49.57 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 22:50.40 | anrp | i thought japan was using utms compatible w-cdma nowadays (at least softbank)? |
| 22:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish_work (n=ivan@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 22:51.06 | SpeedEvil | acidjazz_: they are more expensive, less available. |
| 22:51.08 | anrp | er make that umts |
| 22:51.12 | Elrond | acidjazz_ - Well, it's $300, because of a $50 discount. So really $350. |
| 22:51.37 | *** join/#openmoko minime (n=minime@v26038.topnetworks.de) |
| 22:51.38 | SpeedEvil | acidjazz_: 3G phones in many cases use the same chipset for the phone and the modem |
| 22:51.38 | SpeedEvil | using it as a software modem. |
| 22:51.38 | SpeedEvil | This may actually be illegal to open-source in some countries. |
| 22:51.58 | poffy | Is OpenMoko wiki down for anyone else? |
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| 22:52.19 | woglinde | poffy no try again |
| 22:52.19 | anrp | in a lot of countries... |
| 22:52.35 | woglinde | poffy the database connection seems not to be optimal |
| 22:52.37 | anrp | you can do it for 2.5g too, however, standalone serial connected gsm modules are pretty common |
| 22:52.40 | *** join/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@203-173-40-74.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:52.50 | anrp | 3g is newer -> more integrated |
| 22:52.51 | poffy | Hm. |
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| 22:53.30 | poffy | Is there a page other than the wiki that has OpenMoko documentation (structures/classes/objects)? |
| 22:53.30 | anrp | waah |
| 22:53.30 | woglinde | lol |
| 22:53.30 | woglinde | what a resplit |
| 22:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@162-117-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 22:53.43 | summatusmentis | Welcomd back all! |
| 22:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko Hadaka (i=naked@naked.iki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
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| 22:54.07 | ozamosi | idarwin: there *points* |
| 22:54.19 | summatusmentis | :-D |
| 22:54.46 | summatusmentis | I love surviving netsplits... it makes me feel all powerful |
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| 22:54.51 | idarwin | I hadda ask :-) |
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| 22:56.11 | woglinde | urgs |
| 22:56.11 | summatusmentis | WOO!!!! |
| 22:56.11 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw[away] (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 22:56.11 | woglinde | its holiday in germany |
| 22:56.11 | woglinde | days |
| 22:56.11 | cesarb | wtf |
| 22:56.12 | woglinde | kids playing with the ircnets |
| 22:56.12 | ph|ber | y0! is the 1973 out?? |
| 22:56.12 | *** join/#openmoko hypa7ia (n=hypatia@216.93.240.178) |
| 22:56.12 | Jason1 | Philippe: yup |
| 22:56.12 | Jason1 | ph| yup |
| 22:56.12 | summatusmentis | ph|ber: first off, yes, dev version |
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| 22:56.41 | anrp | ... |
| 22:56.41 | cesarb | woah |
| 22:56.41 | summatusmentis | lol, welcome back again! |
| 22:56.41 | mmazur | wtf? |
| 22:56.41 | ph|ber | so it is not production? |
| 22:56.47 | summatusmentis | ph|ber: not 'user ready' |
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| 22:57.30 | Viko | Friends! |
| 22:57.30 | cesarb | btw (offtopic), does someone know how to disable /away on konversation? just "/away" isn't working |
| 22:57.31 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@217.207.76.231) |
| 22:57.32 | summatusmentis | cesarb: try /back |
| 22:57.41 | cesarb | summatusmentis: thanks... |
| 22:58.00 | summatusmentis | '...' did I misunderstand what you were asking? |
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| 22:59.04 | mikini | Hi, anyone else having build errors in current uboot repository? : error: #endif without #if |
| 22:59.05 | aloril | mikini: See https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:59.09 | weez | summatusmentis: i am assuming if you fall victim to a net split you get some kinda feedback as that effect? |
| 22:59.25 | summatusmentis | weez: ? |
| 22:59.39 | SpeedEvil | weez: your client should inform you |
| 22:59.53 | weez | i would of thought so |
| 23:00.00 | weez | I see netsplits all the time |
| 23:00.06 | summatusmentis | weez: yeah, you'd get disconnected |
| 23:00.12 | weez | just have never been on the receiving end |
| 23:00.43 | ozamosi | Uhm... No, you don't. |
| 23:00.57 | summatusmentis | ozamosi: no? |
| 23:00.58 | ozamosi | A net split is when to servers stop communicating with each other. |
| 23:01.23 | ozamosi | In this case, our server - kornbluth - didn't want to talk to any other server. |
| 23:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko RP (i=1000@tim.rpsys.net) |
| 23:01.41 | weez | so we were sucking it then |
| 23:02.03 | ozamosi | So we got our own little irc network, and all others stayed on the "main" net |
| 23:02.11 | weez | ok |
| 23:02.18 | weez | that is more like i thought |
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| 23:16.00 | |R | Is there a SIP client in the work somewhere? (so we can forward/call by an asterisk server :) |
| 23:16.34 | fo0bar | bah, SIP |
| 23:16.40 | LittleIdiot | i'm pimping linphone for use with the openmoko |
| 23:16.43 | fo0bar | I'd kill for a decent IAX2 client |
| 23:16.53 | |R | yeah well IAX2 would do too... ;) |
| 23:17.04 | |R | but just to be more versatile :) |
| 23:17.31 | fo0bar | true |
| 23:18.05 | |R | if i can get SIP and SSH running over wifi... i really don't care for the rest right away hehe ;) |
| 23:18.35 | LetoTo | sip over ssh? |
| 23:18.53 | LetoTo | good luck with two layers of IP retransmissions on a high packet loss link |
| 23:18.54 | |R | even better if possible, but not a prerequesite :D |
| 23:19.08 | |R | but no, just sip or ssh |
| 23:19.09 | LittleIdiot | try openvpn ;) |
| 23:19.11 | LetoTo | it wasnt a good idea in 1995 and it isnt a good idea now |
| 23:19.23 | LetoTo | I'm working on getting openswan ported |
| 23:19.28 | |R | nice :) |
| 23:19.30 | LittleIdiot | or srtp, but i'd use a real vpn |
| 23:19.39 | LetoTo | but everytime i build openmoko, there is SOME issue for failing to make the base system :( |
| 23:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko Jonbo (n=Jonbo123@adsl-074-229-245-180.sip.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 23:20.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[SIM]] [[GSM]] [[GRPS]] [[SMS]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware/it]] [[GPRS]] [[Main_Page/gr]] [[Category:Hardware]] [[Category:Hardware/it]] |
| 23:22.24 | LittleIdiot | the wiki's database server isn't working... "(Can't contact the database server: Can't create UNIX socket (12) (localhost))" |
| 23:23.11 | daMaestro | yeah, known issue |
| 23:23.48 | hads | And roh is at the pub :) |
| 23:24.19 | summatusmentis | also a known issue :-) |
| 23:24.30 | tuukkah | does it mean the wiki is offline until he comes back ?-/ |
| 23:25.02 | summatusmentis | or until the webserver goes into flames. then someone is supposed to send him an sms |
| 23:25.08 | hads | heh |
| 23:25.16 | tuukkah | hmm how do we do that? |
| 23:25.22 | idarwin | unless he can ssh from his openmoko at the pub to the server, probably |
| 23:25.23 | tuukkah | slashdot done |
| 23:25.29 | tuukkah | digg done |
| 23:25.46 | tuukkah | now it worked \o/ |
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| 23:28.03 | |R | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko onispawn (n=onispawn@207.224.214.190) |
| 23:28.54 | summatusmentis | now, if it would get into the mainstream |
| 23:29.23 | summatusmentis | tuukkah: I have no idea how we send him ss... hrm |
| 23:29.47 | flingpoo | Use the Neo. |
| 23:30.06 | summatusmentis | well, sms usually requires knowing his # |
| 23:30.27 | tuukkah | program the Neo to support SMS sending and test this by sending him an SMS |
| 23:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko Tjikkun_ (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl) |
| 23:30.40 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 23:30.56 | summatusmentis | my lappy sends me sms when my emerge world is done :-) |
| 23:31.18 | don-o | if we _all_ go to a pub, then the problem will cease to exist |
| 23:31.30 | maxauthority | :) |
| 23:31.40 | arachnid | Has anyone received an order acceptance yet? |
| 23:31.49 | tuukkah | pubs not open everywhere at this time of world |
| 23:31.50 | arachnid | I only got the 'we got your order' email thus far |
| 23:32.23 | LittleIdiot | i suppose there are already more orders than neos? ;) |
| 23:32.48 | arachnid | No idea |
| 23:33.23 | hads | I don't think so. |
| 23:33.39 | *** join/#openmoko notserpe_ (n=Eric@67.55.26.33) |
| 23:38.44 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 23:39.37 | mikini | LittleIdiot : last I heard was about 350 orders (and average of 1.1 some phones pr. order), 7-8 hours ago. |
| 23:40.54 | SpeedEvil | It's up over 500 now |
| 23:41.14 | flingpoo | Mostly for the Base or Advanced? |
| 23:41.18 | SpeedEvil | well - 420 last entry in the wikiwhich wa some time ago |
| 23:41.22 | SpeedEvil | nobody knows. |
| 23:42.13 | notserpe_ | are the lists down? |
| 23:42.20 | SpeedEvil | seems likely. |
| 23:43.03 | notserpe_ | wow. |
| 23:43.11 | *** join/#openmoko Jeroen- (n=jeroen@neonescio.viaisn.org) |
| 23:43.52 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@162-117-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 23:44.33 | notserpe_ | so what have I missed in the past 12 hours? |
| 23:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=erdinger@f049168039.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:45.00 | dcordes | hi |
| 23:48.04 | *** join/#openmoko _SrRaven (i=srraven@12.164.197.88) |
| 23:48.59 | andylockran | still having issues with the mokomakefile - any idea when the servers will be back to pre-announcement levels? |
| 23:49.22 | *** join/#openmoko jseghers (n=jseghers@70.90.187.217) |
| 23:50.17 | jseghers | Hello. Is this a good place to ask a development question? |
| 23:50.17 | aloril | jseghers: See https://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:50.20 | dcordes | where can I get information on other devices supporting openmoko? |
| 23:50.37 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish_work (n=ivan@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 23:50.53 | notserpe_ | dcordes: AFAIK, just the neo1973 from FIC at the moment but someone has also put it on a treo apparently. |
| 23:51.01 | andylockran | dcordes: neo1973 is the only thing that'll support it right off |
| 23:51.04 | andylockran | hence the excitement :p |
| 23:51.28 | dcordes | but I heard there are people trying to extent gsmd to support other phone chipsets? |
| 23:52.06 | SpeedEvil | Yes - there is a difference between some parts of the hardware wortking due to having hacked drivers, and it all just working though. |
| 23:53.56 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54890C2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:54.03 | dcordes | that's what I'm looking for - attempts hacking drivers for making OM available on different hardware |
| 23:54.13 | *** join/#openmoko Placid (n=placid@83.223.110.122) |
| 23:54.26 | dcordes | or is that a wrong place to ask due to commercial reasons |
| 23:54.27 | dcordes | ? |
| 23:54.52 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@162-117-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 23:56.38 | juri_ | i would think as this is #openmoko, it makes sense to talk about the openmoko platform, whatever you're running it on. |
| 23:57.29 | andylockran | yeah, the more devices the merrier... |
| 23:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish_work (n=ivan@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 23:57.57 | jseghers | Is there someone here who could answer a question on how to add a package to the OpenMoko build, locally? |
| 23:58.27 | dcordes | jseghers, conf/local.conf? |
| 23:59.07 | *** join/#openmoko Jeroen (i=jeroen@neonescio.viaisn.org) |
| 23:59.17 | jseghers | What do I add to local.conf? I haven't been able to find anything that suggests what needs to be set? |
| 23:59.19 | andylockran | I'm trying to set up my own development environment - but the build keeps failing due to a possible network error... anyone else having the same issues? |
| 23:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A086AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:59.34 | andylockran | I'm not trying to sound naive, but is it because of the high traffic at the moment? |
| 23:59.57 | jseghers | andylockran: I'm getting the same thing at the moment... I think it might be because of server load |
