| 00:00.08 | strtok | 5/names |
| 00:00.11 | *** part/#openmoko strtok (n=strtok@thales.strtok.net) |
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| 00:01.26 | ljp | anyone building with oe? bluez-utils is failing |
| 00:03.27 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wish_List]] [[Advertising]] |
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| 00:26.39 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: I think the wap thing they have depends on what sort of 'browser' you're using... |
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| 00:35.45 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, WAP-- |
| 00:36.12 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: I know, but it's not wap if the browser on the phone isn't written for wap |
| 00:36.23 | summatusmentis | I'm using opera mini on my current phone over a wap service |
| 00:36.26 | summatusmentis | and DUN |
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| 01:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko nil (n=nico@bethuel.ann.jussieu.fr) |
| 01:07.58 | nil | hi! |
| 01:08.22 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^ (n=moo@gw1.panoulu.net) |
| 01:08.31 | nil | is ther an iptable module package for (armv5te) Zaurus spiptz? |
| 01:08.31 | aloril | nil: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:08.56 | summatusmentis | nil: sorry, I pointed you in the wrong direction, I think you may have misunderstood |
| 01:09.07 | nil | summatusmentis: hehe |
| 01:09.12 | nil | sorry : |
| 01:09.14 | nil | ;) |
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| 02:03.47 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Accessories]] [[Main_Page]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wishlist:Accessories]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 03:56.53 | Aria | Moin! |
| 03:59.18 | Linux_Galore | heh @ http://www.totalueberwachung.de/blog/files/canihasaneo1.jpg |
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| 04:49.26 | MrKeuner | How can i preorder one? |
| 04:49.26 | aloril | MrKeuner: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 04:51.40 | mjr | MrKeuner, by getting your wallet ready for monday, when the orders start |
| 04:52.50 | MrKeuner | if I buy a developer version, will I be able to upgrade it to mass market version later? By upgrading the firmware? |
| 04:53.20 | aloril | mass market has different hardware, but software (firmware) you can update at any time |
| 04:53.33 | aloril | or make your own firmware |
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| 05:02.21 | MrKeuner | OK thanks |
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| 06:21.41 | Sup3rkiddo | awfully quiet in here |
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| 06:57.29 | aloril | Sup3rkiddo: everybody is holding breath ;-) |
| 06:57.39 | Sup3rkiddo | aloril, :P |
| 06:59.25 | Sup3rkiddo | anticipation builds character |
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| 07:00.40 | daMaestro | i did some research on carriers today.... i'm not at all impressed with data plan pricing |
| 07:01.47 | daMaestro | sooooo i hope bluetooth networking works pretty well |
| 07:01.57 | daMaestro | or some sort of tethering |
| 07:03.08 | mjr | no reason it shouldn't, or usb networking |
| 07:03.23 | mjr | where do you live? |
| 07:04.02 | daMaestro | mjr, Colorado, USA |
| 07:04.06 | mjr | righto |
| 07:04.14 | daMaestro | so i get to pick between tmobile and att |
| 07:04.18 | mjr | US carriers aren't the most user-friendly ones |
| 07:04.24 | daMaestro | no, not at all |
| 07:04.27 | mjr | especially data price wise |
| 07:04.44 | daMaestro | they are more about "canned" service |
| 07:05.18 | daMaestro | aka... video on demand from the publishers willing to subsidize the costs of higher bitrates |
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| 07:14.45 | Basheri | how do i start the openmoko image - i built with mokomakefile - with qemu? |
| 07:15.46 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177561208.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 07:15.54 | rwhitby | make qemu |
| 07:16.35 | rwhitby | actually, make flash-qemu-local then make run-qemu |
| 07:17.20 | Basheri | hmm.. |
| 07:17.21 | Basheri | Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in $PATH. |
| 07:17.21 | Basheri | make: *** [flash-qemu-local] Error 255 |
| 07:19.39 | rwhitby | yep, you need to read the MokoMakefile page on the wiki first, and install all the prerequisites listed there. |
| 07:19.56 | Basheri | ok, thx =) |
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| 07:24.32 | Basheri | i didn't have lynx and netpbm installed.. Now it should work. Thanks again :P |
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| 08:04.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] |
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| 08:06.18 | Basheri | \o/ it's working! :D |
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| 08:25.49 | PBeck | ahoi |
| 08:26.20 | buz | mhh are n800 images available freely? because if they are, here's arm skype and arm flash 9 http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6698414012.html |
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| 08:40.52 | dennda | Hi. I wonder whether or not I will be able to buy and use this phone in Europe, especially Germany. (Being able to call people over the local phone-net-providers) Anybody knows? :) |
| 08:40.52 | aloril | dennda: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 08:41.35 | aloril | yes, faq has links |
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| 08:43.09 | dennda | I am currently reading it. Didn't discover it yet. Sorry. :) |
| 08:43.21 | dennda | and thanks |
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| 08:54.00 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_providers_provide_the_GSM_required_for_Neo1973.3F |
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| 08:59.00 | dennda | heck I am looking forward on seeing the mass market device being released |
| 09:02.28 | Basheri | damn... for me, openmoko under qemu is very slow |
| 09:02.41 | Basheri | Any tricks to make it faster? :P |
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| 09:05.22 | Basheri | works like vista on a pIII |
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| 09:10.33 | CM | Basheri: It's slow for me too on an amd64 3000+ |
| 09:10.56 | Basheri | ok |
| 09:11.08 | Basheri | I wish i had intel =) |
| 09:11.28 | CM | Core2 rocks :) |
| 09:12.52 | rwhitby | Basheri: that's intended to get you ready for the speed of the real device. |
| 09:12.52 | *** join/#openmoko lrg_ (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 09:13.04 | CM | Hehe |
| 09:13.25 | Basheri | :P |
| 09:14.27 | Basheri | is there some way to allow it to use more memory or something? |
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| 09:25.50 | wigyori | hi |
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| 09:53.56 | ScaredyCat | counter |
| 09:53.56 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 02:06:03 (2.088±1.0 days) (1692;246) |
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| 10:05.08 | Basheri | is there a way to adjust the qemu window to be the same size as the neo screen |
| 10:05.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List]] |
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| 10:10.42 | Stephmw | howdy |
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| 10:23.28 | kiney | counter |
| 10:23.29 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 01:36:31 (2.067±1.0 days) (1693;246) |
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| 10:26.48 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: SMedia 3362 Graphics Accelerator |
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| 10:52.49 | ScaredyCat | koen|train, you're going the wrong way :) |
| 10:53.17 | ScaredyCat | .nl is +1 hour... ;) |
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| 10:58.40 | ScaredyCat | ^^^ somone playing Monkey Island too much ;) |
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| 11:07.13 | lynx | ^^ |
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| 11:26.37 | Elrond | Hi people. |
| 11:26.55 | apic | Hi you. |
| 11:27.05 | Elrond | Hi apic |
| 11:28.08 | SpeedEvil | hi |
| 11:30.16 | ScaredyCat | lo |
| 11:30.20 | ScaredyCat | bugger.. |
| 11:30.21 | ScaredyCat | hi |
| 11:30.31 | *** join/#openmoko sarpc (n=dost@88.233.25.129) |
| 11:31.00 | Elrond | up, down? ;o) |
| 11:31.37 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 11:31.48 | ScaredyCat | and then I drove all night.... |
| 11:32.43 | ScaredyCat | i resized mine with rm :) |
| 11:33.06 | Elrond | hehe. ;o) |
| 11:33.44 | Elrond | The only thing I have to complain yet: xfs can't be shrunken. |
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| 11:38.32 | ScaredyCat | I really wish I had a laptop with dual drives... |
| 11:43.18 | thomasg_ | there are laptops with 2 hd's, a bluray-rw and a dvd-rw drive :) |
| 11:43.33 | thomasg_ | with 20" and about 20 pounds -.- |
| 11:44.15 | Elrond | *G* |
| 11:47.55 | Stephmw | and of course, you'd want to hook that up to the Neo, right? |
| 11:48.16 | ScaredyCat | of course..... |
| 11:48.47 | ScaredyCat | and the battery needs to last at least 24 hours |
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| 11:50.08 | ScaredyCat | counter |
| 11:50.09 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 00:09:50 (2.007±1.0 days) (1694;246) |
| 11:50.22 | ScaredyCat | oooooooooeeeeeee ooooooo |
| 11:53.10 | Basheri | when people start to receive their neos, i demand videos of neo running |
| 11:53.21 | Basheri | Since i don't have the money to buy one :P |
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| 11:53.57 | LittleIdiot | i get one from my employer ;) |
| 11:54.40 | Basheri | 8o |
| 11:55.20 | Basheri | well, actually i do have the money, but i have to buy the gta2 and a laptop |
| 11:56.04 | SpeedEvil | Basheri: bluetooth keyboard, and a magnifying glass. |
| 11:56.16 | Basheri | :D |
| 11:56.27 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 11:56.48 | Basheri | not quite enough horse power i'm afraid :P |
| 11:56.55 | ScaredyCat | big fresnel lens |
| 11:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55FBC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:57.09 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: how did you know that's what I just got? |
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| 11:57.21 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: and why I don't have enough for a Neo? :) |
| 11:57.24 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Magnifying glass like in this old scify movie? I try to remember the name.. |
| 11:57.43 | rwhitby | Brazil |
| 11:57.44 | SpeedEvil | 1984? |
| 11:57.49 | SpeedEvil | yeah - that |
| 11:57.54 | Elrond | Yeah, Brazil! |
| 11:58.28 | SpeedEvil | Where can you get an old-typewriter style bluetooth keyb though. |
| 11:58.37 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw, you must have got it as a gift for me.... |
| 11:58.50 | ScaredyCat | steampunk lad |
| 11:58.58 | ScaredyCat | s/lad/labs/ |
| 11:58.59 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=CanonAdvantageTopicDtlAct&id=2632 |
| 11:59.17 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: and more precisely... http://www.usa.canon.com/consumer/controller?act=ModelInfoAct&fcategoryid=150&modelid=9996 |
| 11:59.52 | ScaredyCat | ouch |
| 12:00.02 | Basheri | what's the average price for a reasonable bluetooth keyboard? |
| 12:00.33 | ScaredyCat | 35quid |
| 12:00.35 | Elrond | Basheri - For a typewrite one? ;o) |
| 12:01.15 | Basheri | just some nice and small |
| 12:02.16 | ScaredyCat | usb one, small enuff? http://linitx.com/viewproduct.php?prodid=10779 |
| 12:02.18 | ScaredyCat | :P |
| 12:03.11 | ScaredyCat | I bet that lens cost an arm and a leg Stephmw |
| 12:03.14 | Basheri | hehe, indeed :P |
| 12:04.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Gadfly]] |
| 12:04.50 | *** join/#openmoko nm__ (n=nm@58.187.120.191) |
| 12:06.27 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: yeah, £550 2ndhand |
| 12:06.37 | ScaredyCat | oh my... |
| 12:07.02 | ScaredyCat | that's like, and openmoko dev unit, *and* a consumer unit |
| 12:07.22 | Stephmw | yup, no sweeties or gadgets for the rest of the year |
| 12:07.26 | Stephmw | had to prioritise |
| 12:07.33 | Basheri | my friend's dad just spent ~1000e for a camera |
| 12:08.44 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw, ahh but how do you take the photo of the camera |
| 12:09.06 | Elrond | mirror ;o) |
| 12:09.12 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 12:09.21 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.120) |
| 12:09.25 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: point'n'shoot camera... or a mirror I guess :D |
| 12:09.48 | ScaredyCat | but then the insurance company might think they were insuring Stephmw, Elrond |
| 12:10.01 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 12:11.30 | ScaredyCat | I used to really like quavers... so I got some for my trip last night.... |
| 12:11.39 | ScaredyCat | ... I don;t like them any more... |
| 12:11.43 | ScaredyCat | too much salt :( |
| 12:14.40 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@dsl82-163-60-155.as15444.net) |
| 12:15.29 | Basheri | http://www.expansys.com/p.aspx?i=124250 |
| 12:15.33 | Basheri | that seems nice =) |
| 12:16.24 | ScaredyCat | nokia 770 are only 75 quid |
| 12:16.28 | ScaredyCat | on expansys |
| 12:16.59 | Stephmw | Basheri: you know you're a photogeek when your lenses start costing more than your cameras :) |
| 12:17.03 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: yeah, saw that |
| 12:17.08 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: very tempting |
| 12:17.28 | Stephmw | yikes... that BT keyboard's pricy at £60 |
| 12:17.32 | ScaredyCat | they pushed back the delivery date |
| 12:17.56 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw, "<Stephmw> yup, no sweeties or gadgets for the rest of the year" |
| 12:18.07 | Stephmw | caught. |
| 12:18.08 | ScaredyCat | hehehe |
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| 12:31.28 | Elrond | Okay... unplugging the battery for days helped the "put battery in, plug usb in, neo boots immediately" thing to work again. But still the gps chip doesn't work the first time, just the second. very strange. |
| 12:32.49 | Elrond | Hi mickeyl! :-) |
| 12:33.01 | Stephmw | Elrond: maybe only starts 'working' after it's acquired a lock? |
| 12:33.06 | Stephmw | hey mickeyl |
| 12:33.18 | mickeyl | morning |
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| 12:34.14 | Elrond | Stephmw - I'm talking lowlevel to the chip. "My" neo never saw gllin. ;-) |
| 12:34.43 | Elrond | Or maybe it saw gllin in the construction plant. ;-) |
| 12:34.59 | Elrond | But I doubt it. gllin would not have worked at that time. Kernel bugginess. |
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| 12:44.25 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: you might appreciate this one, http://blog.tangency.co.uk/2007/07/common-sense.html |
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| 12:56.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2368 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (alsa/oe-sync oe-to-verify): oe: sync alsa with org.openembedded.dev |
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| 13:11.54 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2369 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (oe-to-verify uboot/oe-sync): oe: uboot has been already merged w/ org.openembedded.dev |
| 13:13.08 | Elrond | mickeyl - What I meant about review yesterday was: With a certain amount of people, a more structured review process might help. Or some "okay, you really think, that this code is crap, and you're devoting your time for reviewing not fixing, then please put your note <here>" |
| 13:15.14 | Stephmw | Elrond: we have a structured review process at my place, informally: quick/1-2 day change, 1 reviewer |
| 13:15.19 | mickeyl | Elrond: that's what i meant as well |
| 13:15.25 | mickeyl | this is one of the assets of an open source process |
| 13:15.32 | Stephmw | 2-5 day change, 2 reviewers. More --> sub team review |
| 13:15.37 | mickeyl | in almost all oss projects i was part of it worked like that |
| 13:15.39 | mickeyl | peer review |
| 13:15.55 | mickeyl | but since we had not enough people familiar with this way of working, it didn't happen |
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| 13:16.11 | mickeyl | even worse, changes were overwritten, things changed without communicating etc. |
| 13:16.20 | mickeyl | and this -- like i said -- will change |
| 13:16.23 | mickeyl | with the new team |
| 13:18.23 | gunny01 | Hi all. I'm trying to get openmoko running under QEMU, following the instructions on the wiki. Everything works well until the "openmoko/flash.sh" stage, where I get a long error message: http://pastebin.com/943831 |
| 13:18.28 | gunny01 | Can anyone help? |
| 13:18.29 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) |
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| 13:26.06 | ScaredyCat | counter counter couner |
| 13:26.13 | ScaredyCat | or something |
| 13:26.16 | ScaredyCat | counter |
| 13:26.17 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 22:33:43 (1.940±1.0 days) (1695;246) |
| 13:26.48 | ScaredyCat | ...action |
| 13:26.59 | ScaredyCat | s/action/ation/ |
| 13:27.09 | ScaredyCat | uggered that up didn;t I |
| 13:27.13 | ScaredyCat | +b |
| 13:33.54 | Elrond | mickeyl - Ahh, okay. :-) |
| 13:34.55 | Elrond | mickeyl - Well, it depends on the project. I know FOSS projects, where no review happens. ;) |
| 13:35.17 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@a178.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 13:36.15 | mickeyl | Elrond: sure thing. this is giving away a possibility to learn and improve the quality then |
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| 13:44.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 631 has been created by <Elrond> |
| 13:44.03 | cdbot2 | * * gfault when dbus not running |
| 13:44.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=631 |
| 13:44.26 | Elrond | mickey|bbq - Yeah. I gave up working with them. And I'm trying to drop any dependencies I have on their code. ;o) |
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| 13:53.10 | galexande | it looks like this mailing list loopis actually inside of gmail |
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| 14:05.35 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] |
| 14:07.34 | galexande | this movie would suck without audience partici |
| 14:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeeti1 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
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| 14:17.43 | arnath | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:17.51 | arnath | but gotta save up for the octobre one ;) (i _need_ wifi) |
| 14:19.57 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:26.54 | summatusmentis | so... the devices that are supposed to be after GTA02... should we expect at least a year turn around from when they're announced to when they go on sale? |
| 14:27.34 | SpeedEvil | the implication ahs been that they are going to be announced soon |
| 14:27.37 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 14:27.41 | SpeedEvil | after Oct |
| 14:28.25 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: right, so then, there's gonna be a dev time after the announcement, correct? or are they already being dev'd out, and should be available for sale? |
| 14:28.28 | SpeedEvil | or maybe at the same time that it goes on sale |
| 14:28.46 | SpeedEvil | There is stuff going on in development reportedly |
| 14:29.07 | Elrond | But I think, most devel goes into GTA02 currently. |
| 14:29.43 | summatusmentis | I guess I'm just wondering(I realize this is all speculation) the time from annoucement to availability for purchase |
| 14:29.45 | rwhitby | the thing about open source development of commercial products is that there is going to be a long time between announcement and sale, since you can't keep the announcement secret when svn checkins are happening ... |
| 14:30.04 | summatusmentis | ah.. that's true |
| 14:30.52 | SpeedEvil | But, simply checking in drivers of stuff that may be in future devices doesn't always imply that it'll be in any deviece. |
| 14:31.40 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: true, but in most cases it's pretty good indicator that would probably force an announcement earlier rather than later. |
| 14:31.52 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 14:32.31 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@141.144.217.87.dynamic.jazztel.es) |
| 14:33.11 | rwhitby | at the other end of development, it will be hard for openmoko to do the mass market release earlier than when it really is ready, cause they will have many eyes looking at the "finished" product before it is shipped, and giving feedback on whether it really is finished or whether it needs more work. |
| 14:33.42 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 14:34.05 | Elrond | And the current thing needs lots of work. |
| 14:34.49 | summatusmentis | so I should expect quite a bit of turn around? |
| 14:34.58 | summatusmentis | turn aroun time* |
| 14:35.18 | SpeedEvil | There will be a long time between forseeable announcements and stuff for sale. |
| 14:35.34 | SpeedEvil | Unless it's simple hardware mods. |
| 14:35.35 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: alright, thanks |
| 14:35.54 | goodfoot | how many units will be produced? |
| 14:35.56 | summatusmentis | there's apprently 3 devices likely to be announced? |
| 14:36.00 | SpeedEvil | For example, swapping out the NAND for one twice the size. |
| 14:36.11 | SpeedEvil | goodfoot: 1000 of the current batch are ready |
| 14:37.15 | summatusmentis | or at least a refresh to the neo |
| 14:38.53 | summatusmentis | my current provider(CDMA) won't let me out of contract when I move to an area that's not covered by them, and I'll be going to college, so I probably can't swing the cancellation fee |
| 14:39.08 | summatusmentis | so it's looking like I won't be getting the GTA02 either :-/ |
| 14:40.35 | SpeedEvil | how is the frequency set? |
| 14:40.37 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 14:41.20 | summatusmentis | CDMA, no gsm, so there's no way to even use the GTA02 |
| 14:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko koen|train (n=koen@host86-131-242-139.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 14:42.36 | summatusmentis | hi koen |
| 14:43.55 | galexande | i'm almost intimidated by the large number of decisions that haven't even been made yet |
| 14:44.52 | summatusmentis | such as? I'm sure FIC has a plan, they're just not discussing them |
| 14:45.13 | koen|inverness | hey summatusmentis |
| 14:45.32 | galexande | well, almost none of the applications have been written yet, and they're building the APIs for interapplication interaction with the applications |
| 14:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko marsan (n=marsan@ti500720a080-2350.bb.online.no) |
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| 14:46.18 | galexande | so, it is possible i could get the default software to be something which would handle whatever pecuiliarities of my network setup |
| 14:46.20 | summatusmentis | I'm not a dev, but that seems to be the smart way to do things... that way it's known how the apps need to be written |
| 14:46.31 | galexande | whereas ordinarily i would just throw away the (already written) default software and write my own network configurators :) |
| 14:46.50 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 14:47.15 | marsan | hello, when do the openmokophone with wifi hit the stores? |
| 14:47.16 | aloril | GTA02 (P2) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 14:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 14:47.23 | galexande | for example i'm going to use bluetooth for internet, and try not to spend any gprs money. so everything i touch will need off-line and on-line modes |
| 14:47.45 | galexande | marsan, october at the earliest. |
| 14:48.29 | marsan | kewl..i just saw this phone on a article on the net today..looks good and i love open source |
| 14:49.15 | galexande | my guess is that by beginning of august we'll know how realistic the october date looks |
| 14:49.23 | galexande | because we'll see how much still needs to be written and debugged :) |
| 14:49.53 | summatusmentis | well start writing then! |
| 14:49.55 | summatusmentis | :-) |
| 14:50.02 | marsan | hehe |
| 14:50.58 | rwhitby | galexande: I have the same philosophy using my Treo650. BT at home and office, and reading/writing everything offline in betweeen. |
| 14:51.43 | arnath | how do you contact the dev team see if you can pitch in? |
| 14:52.26 | rwhitby | arnath: write to coreteam@openmoko.org with your previous work. or check out the code, fix something, and attach a patch to the bugtracker. |
| 14:52.38 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness_ (n=koen@vpn006144.vpn.utwente.nl) |
| 14:53.27 | rwhitby | s/.org/.com/ |
| 14:53.34 | lrg_ | koen|inverness; hows the weather ? |
| 14:53.58 | koen|inverness_ | lrg_: blue skies for the first time when we left edinburg, inverness is a bit grey |
| 14:54.22 | koen|inverness_ | lrg_: we packed raingear and brought lots of goretex :) |
| 14:54.38 | lrg_ | koen|inverness: cool ;) btw, can you email me your contact number if possible. |
| 14:54.39 | koen|inverness_ | and bought an umbrella |
| 14:54.39 | minime | arnath, concerning the money-issue: there was some discussion on the community list about selling only the gta_02 board. so you keep the case and the touchscreen, etc. and only swap the main board |
| 14:54.53 | koen|inverness_ | lrg_: +31619260390 |
| 14:54.55 | thomasg_ | question to the touchscreen. I'm writing an ap with a button with a mouse-out signal. will mouse-out will get activated when you move the stylus away from the screen? |
| 14:55.05 | koen|inverness_ | lrg_: my mailserver at home went down |
| 14:55.24 | lrg_ | koen|inverness: thanks. I'll give you a call on Monday |
| 14:55.46 | koen|inverness_ | ok |
| 14:58.24 | galexande | thomas, yeah the stylus generates usual "mouse down" on impact and "mouse up" on release |
| 14:59.10 | galexande | but if by "out" you mean, exiting the window, i don't think it'll generate focus change events unless you use the windowmanager |
| 14:59.12 | thomasg_ | galexande, thx for the answer, perfect! |
| 15:00.13 | *** join/#openmoko death-row (n=pierre@217.20.125.101) |
| 15:01.58 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2370 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/openmoko-footer-background.png: theme: Ugly hack to fix landscape styling issues (bug #595) |
| 15:04.10 | buz | how hard would it be to swap mainboards |
| 15:04.20 | buz | i.e. how are battery, lcd and antennas connected |
| 15:04.46 | galexande | lcd is probably the hard one, i bet that it is mounted with a bunch of superfine zebra strips directly onto the board |
| 15:05.05 | galexande | i bet enterprising hobbyists have correctly mounted lcds before, but it intimidates me |
| 15:05.21 | galexande | like surface mount soldering, best done by robots :) |
| 15:05.45 | buz | i know people have taken it apart... |
| 15:05.57 | buz | not sure wheter anyone put it back together ;) |
| 15:05.58 | galexande | usually when you take it apart the lcd comes off as part of the logic board |
| 15:06.15 | buz | i think its sandwiched |
| 15:06.22 | buz | i have seen pictures of lcd outside the case |
| 15:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko exe_ (n=exe@dslb-088-064-234-249.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:07.41 | galexande | it looks like you're right, the photos of the display side of the board make it look like the lcd interfaces through one of those little ribbons |
| 15:07.50 | galexande | like a laptop keyboard |
| 15:08.22 | buz | yeah |
| 15:08.26 | buz | just not sure how it is fastened |
| 15:09.26 | galexande | i'd sure love to get inside the DSP on the GSM chipset |
| 15:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 15:09.42 | buz | i'm quite sure thats not entirely legal |
| 15:10.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2371 10/trunk/oe/packages/db/oe-sync: * This Bug is fixed in OE, too. |
| 15:10.41 | galexande | yeah, and to top it off, i am sure the DSP has lots of designed protection |
| 15:10.59 | galexande | those things are always made so you can flash it with an encrypted key |
| 15:11.09 | buz | i was going to say ;) |
| 15:11.27 | buz | tgo in some way i dont udnerstand why people bother with that |
| 15:11.47 | galexande | it always seems like a waste, even moreso when it's between you and having a really cool toy |
| 15:12.02 | Elrond | galexande - It's an arm7tdmi on the gsm modem. |
| 15:12.06 | galexande | buz, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v4_back.png |
| 15:12.14 | galexande | elrond, there's a TI chip in there too |
| 15:12.20 | galexande | unless that's the gps |
| 15:12.27 | buz | TI makes the gsm module |
| 15:12.32 | buz | so there would be TI hardware in there, yes |
| 15:12.34 | Elrond | No, the gps is global locate/infineon. |
| 15:12.46 | *** join/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:12.52 | galexande | buz, see the connector in the lower-right corner? I can't think of anything there that would connect to the LCD but that one. |
| 15:13.00 | Elrond | Ahh, yeah, the module has parts, right. base band something. |
| 15:13.18 | buz | there was a pic with the lcd and a ribbon cable |
| 15:14.36 | galexande | i would assume the DSP is mostly for the gsm vocoding compression crap |
| 15:14.38 | buz | actually i think thats the debug connector |
| 15:14.44 | buz | http://www.flickr.com/photos/rwhitby/420848206/ |
| 15:14.49 | galexande | buz, there's a similar connector on the othher side that i assumed was the debug connector |
| 15:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 15:15.03 | buz | seems like the debug connector is on the lcd side |
| 15:15.20 | galexande | oh, i probably just had them backwards, you can see the ribbon folding over in other pictures |
| 15:15.29 | galexande | my point is, it's an easy connector one way or the other :) |
| 15:16.07 | galexande | it's not a damn zebra strip |
| 15:16.33 | buz | gps antenna seems manageable |
| 15:17.16 | buz | that case sure is a waste of space |
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| 15:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 15:22.51 | galexande | the only thing i think is wasteful, is they could have used a skinnier battery and only one speaker and made the device skinnier, i suspect |
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| 15:25.40 | Stephmw | iirc the battery isn't really all that fat |
| 15:25.49 | buz | there's kinda wasted space at the top, no? |
| 15:25.56 | buz | plus the hole ;) |
| 15:26.02 | buz | then again, the size isnt that bad |
| 15:26.22 | buz | it's thinner than my p900 and i can comfortably carry that in my pocket |
| 15:27.28 | Stephmw | I carry my p910 the same way |
| 15:27.32 | buz | its kinda heavy though |
| 15:27.57 | galexande | well, all i know is the iphone is like 0.3in thinner, and the only way i can see to save that kind of space is to use a battery that is a third the thickness. |
| 15:28.22 | galexande | they make batteries that are shaped more like the lcd than like the nokia batt |
| 15:29.05 | buz | well the iphone prolly uses custom components |
| 15:29.10 | buz | the neo is pretty off the shelf |
| 15:29.13 | galexande | yeah, exactly |
| 15:29.23 | galexande | i'm not saying it's not a great tradeoff, to get cheaper batteries, and replacable batteries |
| 15:30.07 | *** part/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-028-152.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:30.19 | galexande | i have a size fetish though, everything should be as thin as the plam vx |
| 15:30.55 | buz | if only they added a dpad and 4 buttons |
| 15:31.02 | buz | then it would be rather similar to an oversized snes controller |
| 15:31.13 | Basheri | :P |
| 15:31.19 | buz | which i still consider to be one of the saner joypads out there |
| 15:31.37 | buz | pluspoints for hiding the buttons and the dpad under a removeable cover |
| 15:32.50 | Stephmw | I'm looking forward to seeing casemods... maybe integrats tiny keypads |
| 15:33.08 | buz | no whole a lot in the area of sane tiny keypads |
| 15:33.15 | buz | frogpads are $$$ |
| 15:33.37 | buz | and custom building one is probably out of question |
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| 15:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8713.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:37.33 | buz | http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/478 i wonder how thick that one is without its casing |
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| 15:39.50 | Stephmw | buz: I'd say 1/2 the thickness shown here, http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/input-devices/41136-very-mini-keyboard-solution-cheap-4.html |
| 15:40.40 | buz | http://www.nyko.com/nyko/products/?i=13 now THAT is neat |
| 15:41.50 | Stephmw | looks a little bulky :) |
| 15:41.51 | *** join/#openmoko Tjikkun (n=tjikkun@82-204-54-115.dsl.bbeyond.nl) |
| 15:42.27 | buz | i wonder if you could remove the casing and somehow mod neos case to get a treo'esque thing |
| 15:43.03 | Elrond | buz - Probably yes... well, larger of course. |
| 15:43.11 | buz | how wide is that thing |
| 15:43.15 | buz | no dimensions anywhere |
| 15:43.33 | buz | 8x5x1 |
| 15:43.35 | buz | cm |
| 15:43.50 | buz | but hey it's even rounded ;) |
| 15:44.06 | *** join/#openmoko Aria_ (n=aredride@224x152.ouraynet.com) |
| 15:45.17 | buz | http://mobile-review.com/pda/review/cherry-kb-en.shtml that aint so bad either |
| 15:45.20 | buz | needs power thoug |
| 15:46.47 | buz | take thin cheap digicam, remove case, add qwerty, get ultimate neo companion? |
| 15:47.22 | Elrond | hehe ;) |
| 15:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@86.154.5.252) |
| 15:48.17 | buz | http://www.frogpad.com/information/iFrogWearable.asp for the truly geeky |
| 15:48.28 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 15:48.29 | buz | the thing is huge though |
| 15:50.32 | buz | a treo neo would be best |
| 15:51.57 | koen|inverness_ | without the retro antenna |
| 15:52.20 | koen|inverness_ | so it would look more like a crackberry |
| 15:52.41 | buz | crackberries are too big to comfortably carry |
| 15:53.15 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 15:54.02 | Viko | Hello Guys |
| 15:54.24 | Viko | And/or girls |
| 15:54.59 | Elrond | BTW: Is it intended, that the displayed phone number hops up and down while taping on the number buttons to add more numbers (in the dialer)? |
| 15:55.09 | ewanm89_laptop | Viko: Are you the only one who recognises that the female of the species use irc? |
| 15:55.27 | madewokherd | there's no such thing as gender on irc |
| 15:55.28 | madewokherd | usually |
| 15:55.41 | ewanm89_laptop | Agreed |
| 15:55.42 | Viko | ewanm89_laptop, I forgot I was on irc... hello guys then.. |
| 15:55.48 | Viko | :) |
| 15:55.58 | *** part/#openmoko Tyrael (n=tyrael@213-140-6-114.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 15:56.16 | buz | my gf used to use irc |
| 15:56.49 | ewanm89_laptop | used to? |
| 15:57.02 | Elrond | My gf still does. |
| 15:57.27 | Viko | Irc had a lot more girls before msn messenger, myspace and facebook, no? |
| 15:57.46 | buz | ewanm89_laptop: these days she doesnt even use IM anymore |
| 15:57.49 | buz | not entirely sure why |
| 15:58.40 | Stephmw | madewokherd: sure there's gender on IRC: guys admiting they're guys, guys pretending to be gals, and guys that say they say a gal on irc... |
| 15:58.56 | Stephmw | s/say/saw/ |
| 15:59.02 | Stephmw | lol |
| 15:59.06 | Stephmw | ok... you get the idea |
| 15:59.41 | ewanm89_laptop | buz: The only girls I know, use MSN (eugh!), I only use jabber and irc. |
| 16:00.13 | buz | i also use icq, for historical reasons |
| 16:00.31 | Aria | I use only Jabber and IRC, but set up gateways to deal with my technically inept friends. |
| 16:00.44 | Stephmw | yahoo, jabber, msn and err... aim, that's it |
| 16:01.02 | ewanm89_laptop | buz: I have an icq account, can't remember the number and password though. |
| 16:02.14 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 16:02.36 | buz | i once had a 6 digit number |
| 16:02.43 | buz | but forgot the pw |
| 16:02.46 | buz | now i have 7 digit ;) |
| 16:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness (n=koen@host86-131-242-139.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 16:05.15 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Mesh_Networking]] [[Advertising]] [[User_talk:Leoc]] |
| 16:06.11 | *** part/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@64.241.37.140) |
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| 16:42.19 | Basheri | is there some way to type in the emulated openmoko? :P |
| 16:43.38 | Sup3rkiddo | Basheri, click on the beige patch next to the menu at the top |
| 16:43.53 | Basheri | ok, thanks |
| 16:46.33 | cesarb | This seems to be becoming a FAQ... |
| 16:46.45 | cesarb | (I also came here to ask the same question some days ago) |
| 16:46.53 | Basheri | :P |
| 16:47.18 | woglinde | hm |
| 16:47.19 | woglinde | doch |
| 16:47.24 | woglinde | ups |
| 16:47.25 | woglinde | sorry |
| 16:47.25 | cesarb | There's no way one can guess the beige patch is supposed to be a keyboard, viewed from 15m and compressed with JPEG ultra-low-quality ;-) |
| 16:48.39 | Sup3rkiddo | i just randomly clicked here and there..and it took me a day to realise that the beige patch should be clicked, instead of random clicks |
| 16:49.37 | Basheri | hmm, i can see nothing beige |
| 16:51.36 | cesarb | Basheri: it's on the top bar, to the right of the menu thingy on the left |
| 16:52.10 | cesarb | (for some bizarre reason, I also couldn't see until I asked here and people told me it existed, and then the next time I started the emulator somehow it was there) |
| 16:53.03 | Basheri | strange, it's not there... I clicked the whole top bar threw |
| 16:53.23 | Basheri | thru |
| 16:54.07 | Sup3rkiddo | Basheri, just keep restarting the thingy till you get it |
| 16:54.12 | Basheri | ok |
| 16:54.13 | Sup3rkiddo | i meant the qemu |
| 16:54.34 | Basheri | yeh |
| 16:55.11 | Sup3rkiddo | cesarb, happens sometimes, when you are having a bad day you have to restart many times |
| 16:55.41 | cesarb | Sup3rkiddo: it NEVER appeared for me until I asked here, and then the VERY NEXT time I started the emulator it was there, just to make me look dumb |
| 16:55.44 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 16:56.04 | cesarb | Sup3rkiddo: and every other single time I opened the emulator, even after reflashing, it was there |
| 16:56.06 | Sup3rkiddo | cesarb, lol... |
| 16:56.52 | Basheri | cool, it worked now |
| 16:56.56 | Basheri | thx |
| 16:56.58 | Sup3rkiddo | CoreDump|home, expect iMoko next time |
| 16:57.54 | Sup3rkiddo | alright that was lame |
| 16:58.37 | CoreDump|home | I'm expecting to run OpenMoko on the iPhone sooner or later ;) |
| 16:59.05 | mjr | I'm expecting that OpenMoko will run on the iPhone sooner or later. |
| 16:59.19 | woglinde | hehe |
| 16:59.20 | woglinde | lol |
| 16:59.28 | bonan | Would be nice :) |
| 16:59.34 | mjr | I'm not particularly expecting that I will be buying one of those abominations though |
| 16:59.41 | keesj | what kind of hardware is in the iphone? |
| 17:00.06 | woglinde | arm |
| 17:00.26 | woglinde | and one new chip from infion |
| 17:00.36 | woglinde | there was a site who looked which hw is in there |
| 17:00.52 | cesarb | Is there any smartphone which isn't arm nowadays? |
| 17:00.55 | woglinde | and mesaured up how much profit apple made with hw |
| 17:01.04 | woglinde | mesuared |
| 17:02.11 | madewokherd | but will openmoko take advantage of multi-touch? |
| 17:02.29 | keesj | http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/01/iphone-processor-found-620mhz-arm/ |
| 17:02.32 | woglinde | depend on the patents I guess |
| 17:04.57 | keesj | woglinde: there it's also talking about the s3c6400 , I will search some more |
| 17:05.58 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 17:06.31 | Basheri | damn |
| 17:06.59 | Basheri | i was kinda hoping that it'd have some lame processor |
| 17:07.51 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
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| 17:19.55 | aloril | (script) planet: Stefan Schmidt: Conferences ahead. Going to RMLL and GUADEC. http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/weblog/archives/2007/07/#e2007-07-07T19_02_08.txt |
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| 18:04.59 | sarpc | aloril is a bot right? which software is it using does anyone know? |
| 18:05.44 | Elrond | aloril is both: a human (well, or some _very_ good AI druid) and some scriptlets running in his client. |
| 18:05.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Tetraden]] [[User_talk:Leoc]] |
| 18:05.58 | CoreDump|home | it's probably an MIRC or Xchat script |
| 18:06.27 | sarpc | I'm trying to find a bot that would output new posts from an rss feed |
| 18:07.01 | CoreDump|home | most "bots" in existence ca probably do that |
| 18:07.23 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - (bad memory) Are you behind cdbot2? You know, that it cuts the subject of bugs it posts? |
| 18:07.41 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: I thought I fixed that |
| 18:07.49 | CoreDump|home | got a timestamp? |
| 18:08.16 | CoreDump|home | or a sample bug |
| 18:08.30 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - 5 hours, 24 mins ago. |
| 18:08.41 | Elrond | (15:44 MEST) |
| 18:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 18:08.49 | CoreDump|home | well,m |
| 18:08.58 | CoreDump|home | I kinda lost my backlog =) |
| 18:09.14 | Elrond | 15:44 <cdbot2> * * OM Bug 631 has been created by <Elrond> |
| 18:09.15 | Elrond | 15:44 <cdbot2> * * gfault when dbus not running |
| 18:09.21 | Elrond | 15:44 <cdbot2> * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=631 |
| 18:09.42 | CoreDump|home | ah thanks |
| 18:09.56 | CoreDump|home | that is a regexp problem w/ the [] in the subject |
| 18:10.13 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 18:10.14 | CoreDump|home | I'll look into it, thanks |
| 18:10.27 | *** join/#openmoko V0sen[nL]` (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 18:10.42 | CoreDump|home | bbiab |
| 18:10.51 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - later :-) |
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| 18:28.38 | ScaredyCat | counter |
| 18:28.39 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 17:31:21 (1.730±1.0 days) (1696;246) |
| 18:41.45 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.48.180) |
| 18:44.41 | *** join/#openmoko encompass (n=encompas@dsl-hvkgw1-fe6ffa00-119.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 18:45.13 | encompass | they say that the phone will have motion sensors... but without devs having it how can you program for it? |
| 18:46.14 | *** join/#openmoko lynx (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 18:46.18 | encompass | I have some ideas. for example... you could have it detect being placed upside-down in the pocket to auto-hangup |
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| 18:46.44 | Elrond | encompass - "devs"? What do you mean? |
| 18:46.51 | encompass | they should have a wiki to let people add there ideas to, or perhaps a site, like launchpad to post blueprint to. |
| 18:47.01 | encompass | Elrond: those that program for the device. |
| 18:47.12 | Elrond | encompass - And s/motion sensors/accelarometers/ |
| 18:47.25 | Elrond | encompass - There are people programming for it. |
| 18:47.25 | encompass | well yeah, those :P |
| 18:47.32 | encompass | cool |
| 18:47.53 | Elrond | Even you can program for it, if you want ti. |
| 18:47.55 | Elrond | to. |
| 18:48.02 | encompass | not sure how durable they will be but we could have hang up or pick up by give it a little shake that it can remember |
| 18:48.42 | encompass | I have lots of ideas. I hear there are images or something I can use? (I am a python programmer) |
| 18:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 18:49.31 | SpeedEvil | pick up is possible. |
| 18:49.42 | SpeedEvil | For example, the phone pretty much can sense 'down. |
| 18:49.57 | SpeedEvil | Now, consider the movement from 'in hand with phone at side' |
| 18:50.01 | koen|inverness | just abstract the acceleration with something like get_orientation() or bool isupsidedown() |
| 18:50.03 | encompass | I noticed on the site, that he didn't mention the GPS feature in the phone. Has it been taken out? |
| 18:50.07 | SpeedEvil | to phone next to ear |
| 18:50.16 | SpeedEvil | no, it's just not new in the new version |
| 18:50.32 | koen|inverness | the 'new' features are a diff of the old and new phone |
| 18:50.54 | koen|inverness | the new phone also doesn't have a display if you read it your way :) |
| 18:51.36 | Elrond | Who needs a display anyway? ;o) |
| 18:52.04 | encompass | I have another idea... you couldhave the unit ring louder when there is alot of movement... (I am jogging or on my bike) |
| 18:52.44 | encompass | no you shake it... 1 shake... pause 2 shakes... pause... etc |
| 18:53.28 | gcb77 | echo |
| 18:53.29 | encompass | or we coudl flip it in the are for speed dial :D (Actually that would be cool... jsut give it a flip to call the wife!) |
| 18:54.10 | encompass | you guys really need to get a wiki for this! I would love to post ideas about it. |
| 18:54.21 | koen|inverness | like wiki.openmoko.org? |
| 18:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 18:54.41 | encompass | (I am one of those nokia dudes from finland, we finns know our phones!) |
| 18:54.51 | SpeedEvil | http://youtube.com/watch?v=aXdtUISSHuo - on movement. |
| 18:54.52 | encompass | woop |
| 18:54.55 | SpeedEvil | for dialing. |
| 18:55.07 | SpeedEvil | encompass wiki.openmoko.org |
| 18:55.20 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 18:55.25 | SpeedEvil | In practice. |
| 18:55.40 | SpeedEvil | You don't want to move it around too much - as that leads to accidental throws. |
| 18:56.11 | SpeedEvil | Yellow pages - in some ares. |
| 18:56.32 | Viko | s/you/use |
| 18:56.34 | encompass | SpeedEvil: hehe that's like... an international number |
| 18:56.50 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:57.25 | Stephmw | encompass: Oooo, so you must be on your month-long holiday :) |
| 18:57.38 | encompass | Stephmw: you got it |
| 18:57.45 | encompass | :D |
| 18:58.41 | *** join/#openmoko flatline5 (n=simon@modemcable030.131-57-74.mc.videotron.ca) |
| 18:59.46 | flatline5 | hi! anyone can tell me the model name of the device that was just made available? |
| 18:59.47 | aloril | flatline5: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:00.02 | Aria | GTA01_v4 |
| 19:00.14 | flatline5 | ok thanks |
| 19:00.21 | Aria | Otherwise known as the developer version of the Neo1973 |
| 19:00.33 | Aria | Which the retail version of will be the GTA02 |
| 19:00.43 | flatline5 | ok |
| 19:00.48 | mjr | what, was made available? |
| 19:00.56 | Aria | Well, will be made available on the 9th |
| 19:00.58 | Aria | Or so |
| 19:01.06 | mjr | that's what I thought |
| 19:01.19 | flatline5 | also, a friend of mine tells me i would have to "unlock" that phone, but i don't think so, what's true? |
| 19:01.27 | SpeedEvil | what phone? |
| 19:01.34 | SpeedEvil | The Neo is supplied SIM-free |
| 19:01.40 | SpeedEvil | you put your GSM SIM into it. |
| 19:01.42 | SpeedEvil | And it just works. |
| 19:01.51 | flatline5 | SpeedEvil, free! |
| 19:01.54 | flatline5 | lol |
| 19:02.02 | flatline5 | ok, thanks |
| 19:02.34 | flatline5 | ok, the most imporant question, does it sells in canada? 8) |
| 19:02.44 | SpeedEvil | Sells direct anywhere. |
| 19:02.51 | flatline5 | perfect |
| 19:03.19 | flatline5 | i'm not paying any bills this month! lol ;) |
| 19:04.01 | Aria | Me either. |
| 19:05.34 | encompass | So eventually will we have like... model GTA Vice City right? (Sorry I am sure the dumb joke has come up but I had to say it:P) |
| 19:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 19:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@ACB2659B.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:12.04 | encompass | very cool phone guys... I am so pumped to be a part of it! |
| 19:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 19:12.31 | ScaredyCat | well, just be aware it's not ready for joe average, yet |
| 19:13.13 | encompass | can you recorde a sim and reuse it on this phone? |
| 19:13.22 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 19:13.22 | SpeedEvil | Umm - no. |
| 19:13.25 | ScaredyCat | wtf |
| 19:13.32 | SpeedEvil | SIM is Subscriber Identity Module |
| 19:13.57 | SpeedEvil | it's a little bit of plastic your GSM provider gives you to identify you to the network |
| 19:14.01 | SpeedEvil | you can't clone them. |
| 19:14.07 | encompass | SpeedEvil: I ask because MANY people here in finland would go nuts for it... they have to care around 2 phones all the time one for work and one for home |
| 19:14.23 | encompass | SpeedEvil: I know :P |
| 19:14.25 | SpeedEvil | No, you can't do trivially multiple SIMs. |
| 19:14.44 | Basheri | wtf encompass |
| 19:14.52 | encompass | SpeedEvil: I don't think there is a model out there of any brnad that does that now is there. |
| 19:15.04 | encompass | Basheri: seriously... finns love there phones |
| 19:15.15 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, one could clone them, just the amount of work/money needed is in no relation to the gain. ;-) |
| 19:15.31 | Basheri | encompass: I suggest you /whois me |
| 19:15.36 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: is it possible practically to clone them? |
| 19:15.46 | koen|inverness | Elrond: walk into a university and find the EE department |
| 19:15.52 | encompass | I'll guess |
| 19:16.00 | Elrond | koen|inverness - exactly. :-) |
| 19:16.34 | SpeedEvil | It's not possible to clone all electronics - there can be effective protections. |
| 19:16.36 | Elrond | Well, the EE department will still be challenged, but IMHO it's doable. |
| 19:16.52 | SpeedEvil | Do you base this on supposition, or knowing that it's been done? |
| 19:17.05 | ScaredyCat | there are some dual sim capable phones.... |
| 19:17.05 | Elrond | More the first. |
| 19:17.07 | encompass | wasn't there a model of phone that took two at once? |
| 19:17.08 | ScaredyCat | use those |
| 19:17.19 | encompass | bingo |
| 19:17.52 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - protecting electronics is quite tricky. You can proetect against the standard attack vectors. |
| 19:18.02 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: and the non-standard ones. |
| 19:18.22 | ScaredyCat | http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/dualsim/dualsimcovers.htm |
| 19:18.29 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: it's possible to protect against people willing to open up your device and use electron microscopes and stuff on it. |
| 19:18.57 | encompass | ScaredyCat: thanks |
| 19:19.34 | ScaredyCat | the dual ghost thingy |
| 19:20.19 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I know. But are standard SIMs protexted like this? |
| 19:21.02 | SpeedEvil | It's not especially hard to protect the few dozen bits you need to protect - given that the devices are sold in the tens of millions. |
| 19:21.30 | Elrond | Doing it for real takes some money. |
| 19:21.34 | SpeedEvil | You do stuff like burying the memory cells in question under an extra layer of metallisation, ... |
| 19:21.42 | SpeedEvil | Not really - if you're making ten million. |
| 19:21.55 | ScaredyCat | the statium is totally empty |
| 19:21.57 | SpeedEvil | Katie Melua? |
| 19:22.10 | ScaredyCat | think so |
| 19:22.16 | ScaredyCat | tunstal |
| 19:22.17 | SpeedEvil | This concert has made me reconsider my view of global warming. |
| 19:22.24 | SpeedEvil | I think it's now a good thing. |
| 19:22.31 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, people are working on advanced non-invasive analytics for this sort of stuff. :-) |
| 19:22.37 | ScaredyCat | ... how do they think their amps are powered? |
| 19:22.44 | SpeedEvil | Biofuel. |
| 19:23.40 | ScaredyCat | well - if you go to the nyc concert, you'll get a good seat... |
| 19:23.47 | ScaredyCat | it's cruel I know... |
| 19:26.49 | ScaredyCat | anyhoo... |
| 19:27.01 | ScaredyCat | counter |
| 19:27.02 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a day 16:32:58 (1.690±1.0 days) (1697;246) |
| 19:27.09 | ScaredyCat | tick tick tick tick tick tick |
| 19:27.30 | ScaredyCat | on target? |
| 19:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@86.154.5.252) |
| 19:29.24 | don-o | openmoko.com looks the same. |
| 19:29.57 | ScaredyCat | Monday... |
| 19:30.22 | don-o | We shall see.... <strokes chin> |
| 19:30.25 | don-o | :) |
| 19:30.46 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Oh, and add "time" to the needed stuff. ;-) |
| 19:31.06 | don-o | i wonder how the neo will fare going through customs into the USA |
| 19:31.31 | galexande | is a crate being shipped to america and then split up, or is it uh "drop shipped"? |
| 19:31.35 | galexande | direct from taiwan or whereever |
| 19:31.46 | don-o | galexande: i havent heard either way |
| 19:32.02 | flatline5 | the phones are faxed |
| 19:32.12 | don-o | that'll speed things up |
| 19:32.27 | Elrond | galexande - rumours tend to make us believe, that it's "one by one, direct from .tw". But I repeat: There is NO INFO yet. |
| 19:33.21 | galexande | forget the info i just want my phone :) |
| 19:33.26 | Stephmw | Elrond: my rumour-mill said they'd have at least one shipping source within the EU :D |
| 19:33.35 | ScaredyCat | :o |
| 19:34.09 | mjr | yes there has been talk about an EU-shipper, not sure at this point if that'll be there on P1... |
| 19:34.21 | Stephmw | yeah, it might be a little tight |
| 19:34.39 | Elrond | Stephmw - I also heard that rumour a while back. ;-) |
| 19:34.44 | ScaredyCat | oooeerr misssus |
| 19:34.56 | ScaredyCat | it's on the wiki |
| 19:35.09 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 19:35.16 | ScaredyCat | i mean it's in the email |
| 19:35.23 | ScaredyCat | on the wiki |
| 19:35.28 | Elrond | Huh? |
| 19:36.53 | ScaredyCat | somone copied an announce email |
| 19:36.57 | ScaredyCat | to the wiki.. |
| 19:37.00 | ScaredyCat | I know I read it |
| 19:37.19 | galexande | so we don't have any fic employees here to shine on our parade? |
| 19:37.24 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 19:37.39 | SpeedEvil | IIRC mickey said recently on here that tehy will all direct ship |
| 19:37.41 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 19:38.09 | SpeedEvil | For P1 |
| 19:38.24 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - That's my rumour source. And mickey clearly added, that he tried to keep out of the e-commerce issues, so he doesn't know anything for sure. |
| 19:38.50 | SpeedEvil | that was later on paypal questions |
| 19:39.09 | ScaredyCat | omg ! no... |
| 19:39.11 | ScaredyCat | not paypal |
| 19:39.13 | ScaredyCat | please |
| 19:39.21 | ScaredyCat | for the love of chicken... |
| 19:39.23 | SpeedEvil | which is quite a lot deeper into it than just if they will direct ship or not |
| 19:39.24 | ScaredyCat | not paypal |
| 19:39.30 | Elrond | Well, I've read it as applying to all. |
| 19:39.35 | SpeedEvil | Paypal would be nice as an option |
| 19:39.51 | ScaredyCat | option yes, only method , no |
| 19:39.54 | Elrond | ScaredyCat - I guess, they will accept a bunch of credit cards. |
| 19:40.05 | ScaredyCat | preferably yours ;) |
| 19:40.06 | galexande | i don't care if i have to mail an international money order man |
| 19:40.10 | galexande | i just want the phone :) |
| 19:40.16 | roh | ScaredyCat we know about paypal and its inseriousness ;) be asshured |
| 19:40.37 | galexande | roh, AM or PM :) |
| 19:40.45 | ScaredyCat | paypal just isn't good for the seller at all |
| 19:40.46 | galexande | ?? |
| 19:40.52 | roh | SpeedEvil with paypal fic would propably need to fight a legal court to get out money. |
| 19:41.02 | roh | galexande ? |
| 19:41.03 | SpeedEvil | It's not that bad. |
| 19:41.07 | SpeedEvil | It _usually_ works |
| 19:41.09 | galexande | on the 9th |
| 19:41.11 | roh | SpeedEvil it is. |
| 19:41.14 | galexande | when do i start stomping on refresh |
| 19:41.21 | roh | galexande i have no clue myself. |
| 19:41.25 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil, that's cos generally people are good... |
| 19:41.27 | galexande | :) |
| 19:41.39 | roh | galexande and if i had, am or pm still says nothing without a timezone |
| 19:41.40 | ScaredyCat | but you can reverse the transaction *after* getting the goods |
| 19:41.44 | SpeedEvil | When it doesn't, there are problems getting them to admit errors. |
| 19:41.55 | galexande | roh, i know you know that so i hoped you would throw that in :) |
| 19:42.25 | ScaredyCat | do it like apple... 9am.. in each country |
| 19:42.27 | ScaredyCat | muwahahhahaah |
| 19:42.31 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: The fundamental problem is that they don't hold the item. They can't discriminate between 'he sent me a brick' and 'I sent him a laptop, he returned a brick' |
| 19:42.34 | flatline5 | hmmm, are gta01 available for purchase now? |
| 19:42.40 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 19:42.43 | ScaredyCat | flatline5, |
| 19:42.43 | SpeedEvil | flatline5: no |
| 19:42.44 | flatline5 | ahhh |
| 19:42.55 | flatline5 | we have to wait for gta02, right? |
| 19:43.17 | don-o | flatline5: gat01/P1 goes on sale monday |
| 19:43.24 | don-o | s/gat/gta/ |
| 19:43.24 | ScaredyCat | if we're lucky, monday for a dev version... october for comsumer |
| 19:43.43 | flatline5 | ok |
| 19:43.48 | ScaredyCat | s/comsumer/consumer/ |
| 19:44.01 | ScaredyCat | errm |
| 19:44.15 | flatline5 | i'll have my bank increase my credit card limit on monday then... ;) |
| 19:44.42 | don-o | i imagine the cost is $300 "plus shipping" |
| 19:44.58 | ScaredyCat | plus txes |
| 19:45.08 | ScaredyCat | s/txes/taxes/ |
| 19:45.11 | flatline5 | hmmm, us |
| 19:45.14 | don-o | plus customs/import fee |
| 19:45.25 | flatline5 | don-o, think a gran is enough? |
| 19:45.29 | don-o | (now im just making this stuff up) |
| 19:45.31 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: less taxes if it ships within .eu... for us anyway |
| 19:45.38 | ScaredyCat | plus someotherwaythegovernmentstealsourmoney |
| 19:45.58 | ScaredyCat | Stephmw, yes, but that's 'if' |
| 19:46.09 | Stephmw | ScaredyCat: it's a BIG if, but it's nice to hope |
| 19:46.52 | ScaredyCat | tis true |
| 19:49.47 | *** join/#openmoko Rince (i=rince@auf.der.geekcouch.de) |
| 19:51.56 | flatline5 | oh one last question (so i'm ready on monday), where do we buy? on fic.com.tw? |
| 19:52.06 | Rince | evening ;) |
| 19:52.11 | galexande | openmoko.com |
| 19:52.12 | Rince | openmoko,com |
| 19:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@ACAD6459.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:52.39 | flatline5 | ok, i don't see anywhere that looks like a sales page, i guess that will just show up on monday? |
| 19:54.17 | galexande | flatline5, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-June/000013.html |
| 19:54.45 | galexande | errata: only 1x 512MB microSD with neo base |
| 19:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko koen|inverness (n=koen@host86-131-242-139.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:57.49 | flatline5 | i officially can't wait |
| 20:03.06 | *** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-028-152.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:05.15 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware/de]] [[Testimonials]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:IPhone]] [[IPhone]] |
| 20:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
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| 20:17.19 | encompass | where we talking about multisim support... this is an option... |
| 20:17.27 | encompass | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bluetooth_powered_Multi-SIM_support |
| 20:18.20 | roh | encompass will not happen.. dunno who put that there |
| 20:18.54 | roh | encompass the sim is directly wired to the gsm part. access is only via the at-interpreter |
| 20:19.36 | roh | besides that its horribly insecure and i can just hope nobody is so stupid to put his sim in a phone with that feature enabled. |
| 20:21.34 | SpeedEvil | roh: How is it anymore insecure than a bluetooth headset? |
| 20:22.29 | mjr | that page reminds me of my tongue-in-cheek musics of utms for neo |
| 20:22.30 | roh | SpeedEvil not anymore |
| 20:22.41 | roh | SpeedEvil but thats also massively insecure |
| 20:22.46 | Elrond | *duck* How can anything be more insecure than gsm? ;o) |
| 20:23.09 | hena | nmt? |
| 20:23.13 | mjr | hell, you can stick your own encryption on top of bt for that if you want |
| 20:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 20:23.17 | mjr | /auth |
| 20:23.54 | roh | SpeedEvil besides that.. gsm itself is also only as secure as the key your carrier generates *couch* and the billing is proably done also by the same israeli company which nearly every carrier uses.... |
| 20:23.57 | mjr | would require good access to the slave platform as well to be workable, though |
| 20:24.16 | SpeedEvil | roh: In practice, it makes it no less secure than normally using a BT headset. |
| 20:24.37 | SpeedEvil | roh: If I'm doing stuff that requires better security than that, I'm going encrypted |
| 20:24.52 | roh | SpeedEvil your bt headset has no access to your whole phonebook and all your sms. and thats good that way |
| 20:25.27 | Elrond | "neo, read sms to me" ;o) |
| 20:26.36 | encompass | hehe |
| 20:27.15 | SpeedEvil | It would be nice if long-term, it could be used without looking at the display |
| 20:27.20 | Elrond | Or rather: "Neo, read private sms to the attacker, who has taken over the bt headset communication." ;o) |
| 20:27.33 | encompass | is there a way for me to run this phone in qemu or a virtual machine? I would like to develop for it |
| 20:27.38 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 20:27.42 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 20:27.42 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 20:27.49 | Elrond | encompass - Search the wiki for "qemu" |
| 20:27.52 | encompass | oops |
| 20:27.53 | encompass | hehe |
| 20:28.01 | Elrond | ... and read the faq. ;-) |
| 20:28.05 | *** part/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-028-152.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 20:29.35 | encompass | which emulater to you recommend me using? |
| 20:29.50 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamin1 (n=danieber@72-173-29-214.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 20:29.59 | woglinde | encompass there is only one |
| 20:30.01 | woglinde | qemu |
| 20:30.28 | encompass | not xoo? |
| 20:31.41 | woglinde | xoo is only xserver think |
| 20:32.31 | encompass | ok |
| 20:32.37 | encompass | well everyone have a good night |
| 20:32.41 | encompass | I am bushed! |
| 20:32.47 | *** part/#openmoko encompass (n=encompas@dsl-hvkgw1-fe6ffa00-119.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=ScaredyC@net-pbx.demon.nl) |
| 20:40.08 | Viko | "I ambushed!" ... |
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| 20:50.19 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A50F66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:52.47 | webjames | night |
| 20:55.21 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=banyourm@dsl54007EFE.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:56.07 | *** join/#openmoko tnb (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net) |
| 20:57.09 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia (n=truth_of@p54B928AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:57.37 | Ophelia | Hi :-) |
| 20:57.45 | Ophelia | can anyone help me with a compiler-related problem? |
| 20:57.46 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (gives this link: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ ) |
| 20:57.49 | Ophelia | please? |
| 20:58.48 | tnb | what is the preferred version of glibc-intermediate these days? My OE tree openmoko distro file has 2.4, but when I build I get 2.4 is not available, so it tries to build 2.6 and fails. |
| 20:59.45 | Ophelia | after a svn checkout (suceeded), I did a ./configure --target-list=arm-softmmu |
| 21:00.42 | *** join/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust44.tnt2.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
| 21:01.12 | white_gecko | moin Ophelia |
| 21:01.14 | white_gecko | ;-) |
| 21:01.32 | white_gecko | LOL |
| 21:01.36 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust44.tnt2.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
| 21:02.10 | Ophelia | moin ;-) |
| 21:03.05 | Ophelia | hab' eben ne schwŠche fŸr Shakespeare ;-)) |
| 21:10.47 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=banyourm@dsl51B69E0A.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 21:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia_ (n=Ophelia@p54B928AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:15.32 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=mike@poolofdespair.net) |
| 21:17.53 | Ophelia_ | Hi :-) |
| 21:18.37 | *** part/#openmoko Ophelia_ (n=Ophelia@p54B928AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:22.39 | *** join/#openmoko Ophelia_ (n=Ophelia@p54B928AA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:23.00 | Ophelia_ | Hello :-) |
| 21:23.19 | Ophelia_ | can someone please help me with a compiler-related problem? |
| 21:25.02 | Aria | Perhaps, if you ask the question |
| 21:26.57 | Ophelia_ | ok |
| 21:27.49 | Ophelia_ | after I did a svn checkout, I did a 01,00./configure --target-list=arm-softmmu |
| 21:28.23 | Ophelia_ | which resulted in two errors at the end |
| 21:28.23 | Ophelia_ | make[1]: *** [gnokiigsm/virtmodem.o] Error 1 |
| 21:28.23 | Ophelia_ | make: *** [subdir-arm-softmmu] Error 2 |
| 21:28.43 | Ophelia_ | sorry, the 'make' command resulted in these errors |
| 21:29.19 | Ophelia_ | can anyone make sense of that? |
| 21:29.41 | xkr47 | even though I will probably not be able to help you, I know that a few more lines before the lines you pasted will be needed |
| 21:30.06 | Ophelia_ | ok |
| 21:32.00 | Ophelia_ | how much more lines? |
| 21:32.01 | Ophelia_ | In file included from /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c:63: |
| 21:32.01 | Ophelia_ | make[1]: *** [gnokiigsm/virtmodem.o] Error 1 |
| 21:32.01 | Ophelia_ | make: *** [subdir-arm-softmmu] Error 2 |
| 21:32.01 | Ophelia_ | In file included from /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c:63: |
| 21:32.03 | Ophelia_ | make[1]: *** [gnokiigsm/virtmodem.o] Error 1 |
| 21:32.05 | Ophelia_ | make: *** [subdir-arm-softmmu] Error 2 |
| 21:32.14 | hads | Use a pastebin |
| 21:32.20 | Aria | Is that the top of the error? |
| 21:32.29 | Ophelia_ | top? |
| 21:32.45 | Ophelia_ | @hads: which pastebin? |
| 21:32.53 | Aria | Whichever pastebin |
| 21:33.19 | Ophelia_ | ok |
| 21:33.20 | Ophelia_ | just a sec please |
| 21:38.48 | ScaredyCat | no, the other pastebin.. :P |
| 21:39.17 | Ophelia_ | lol |
| 21:40.06 | ScaredyCat | need half a dozen lines, previous to <Ophelia_> In file included from /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/virtmodem.c:63: |
| 21:42.08 | *** join/#openmoko Rince (i=rince@auf.der.geekcouch.de) |
| 21:43.31 | Ophelia_ | ok, I'm uploading to a pastebin |
| 21:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@64.241.37.140) |
| 21:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko Philippe (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:48.10 | Ophelia_ | no, there appears to be a problem with my connection... |
| 21:48.56 | Ophelia_ | here it is :http://pastebin.ca/607754 |
| 21:49.36 | ScaredyCat | :http://pastebin.ca/607754 |
| 21:49.39 | ScaredyCat | http://pastebin.ca/607754 |
| 21:50.25 | Ophelia_ | why are you posting the link again? |
| 21:51.10 | ScaredyCat | because you put a : right in front of it... |
| 21:51.20 | ScaredyCat | xchat doesn;t see it as a url |
| 21:51.41 | ScaredyCat | /Users/hagenbecker108/Desktop/Openmoko/qemu-neo1973/gnokiigsm/device.h:49: error: parse error before "buf" |
| 21:52.18 | Ophelia_ | aha |
| 21:52.18 | Ophelia_ | ok |
| 21:52.34 | ScaredyCat | typo? |
| 21:52.50 | Ophelia_ | no, that's the exact output |
| 21:53.13 | ScaredyCat | no, I mean did you make a typo in the .h file. .. |
| 21:53.35 | Ophelia_ | I didn't touch those files |
| 21:53.42 | Ophelia_ | all I did was a svn co |
| 21:54.16 | Ophelia_ | and a ./configure with the parameters given above |
| 21:54.16 | Ophelia_ | and then a make |
| 21:54.16 | Ophelia_ | nothing more |
| 21:55.05 | ScaredyCat | k, but bear in mind if it's trunk it's current development, that might get broken ... |
| 21:55.36 | Ophelia_ | hmm |
| 21:55.53 | *** join/#openmoko onym (n=onym@81.102-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) |
| 21:55.57 | Ophelia_ | what do you suggest me to do in this case? |
| 21:56.07 | ScaredyCat | what revision was it?? |
| 21:56.46 | *** part/#openmoko onym (n=onym@81.102-84-212.ippool.ndo.com) |
| 21:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko aristos_achaion (n=jbuchana@adsl-17-137-84.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:57.43 | Ophelia_ | that was the command I issued: |
| 21:57.43 | Ophelia_ | svn co https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973 |
| 21:58.38 | ScaredyCat | you could try a previous one...what does you line 49 say |
| 21:58.46 | ScaredyCat | your |
| 22:00.03 | Ophelia_ | that's a good question :-) |
| 22:00.03 | Ophelia_ | wait a moment, please |
| 22:01.05 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@200-193-152-9.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 22:01.39 | Ophelia_ | size_t device_read(__ptr_t buf, size_t nbytes, struct gn_statemachine *state); |
| 22:01.39 | Ophelia_ | size_t device_write(const __ptr_t buf, size_t n, struct gn_statemachine *state); |
| 22:04.52 | Ophelia_ | does this help? |
| 22:05.15 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_Events]] [[Alternate_Neo1973_case_designs]] [[User:Tetraden]] |
| 22:08.06 | ScaredyCat | not really.. :/ |
| 22:08.36 | ScaredyCat | not even looked at that code as yet... |
| 22:08.43 | roh | hm.. qemu builds fine here with trunk... |
| 22:09.24 | Ophelia_ | hmm, I'm building on a Mac (PPC) |
| 22:09.42 | roh | uuuuh.. dunno if anybody tried that |
| 22:09.55 | Ophelia_ | maybe I need some special packages? |
| 22:09.56 | roh | hm. pastebin.ca is fscking slow again |
| 22:10.24 | Aria | rafb.net/paste |
| 22:10.34 | roh | Ophelia_ no different than on i386... the question is if it builds clean at all or if its working if it builds |
| 22:11.21 | Ophelia_ | building on a mac you mean? |
| 22:11.25 | roh | yep. |
| 22:12.31 | Ophelia_ | but, if it builds fine with you with trunk, then the question is why doesn't it build here |
| 22:14.18 | SpeedEvil | The google-spamming on the ML is annoying... |
| 22:17.26 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, so with the gps information.. i could write a gateway for google 411... right? |
| 22:17.54 | roh | SpeedEvil ? |
| 22:18.07 | daMaestro | aka.. we can have an app that uses google 411... and you can just browse google maps (in context of location) and then issue a call to the "closes cafe" for example |
| 22:19.13 | Ophelia_ | it's revision 2371 BTW |
| 22:19.13 | Ophelia_ | anyone got an idea what I could do now? |
| 22:19.15 | Ophelia_ | anyone got an idea what I could do? |
| 22:20.27 | SpeedEvil | roh: Google seems to be resending messages to the mailiong list. |
| 22:20.58 | daMaestro | closest |
| 22:20.58 | SpeedEvil | It's got the same originating timestamp, but is being resent at intervals by a google system to teh ML. |
| 22:21.17 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: yes, you can do that sort of thing. |
| 22:21.36 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: there is an API for that sort of thing from google. You will of course need GPS. |
| 22:22.09 | daMaestro | yeah, i've read the gapi |
| 22:22.15 | roh | Ophelia_ eh.. youre not trying trunk? |
| 22:22.49 | daMaestro | it really, really would be great to be riding my bike.. pull out my neo tap a single time and see all the cafe's that are close.. tap again and call them |
| 22:23.00 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 22:23.14 | SpeedEvil | It's not even that hard to write. |
| 22:23.31 | daMaestro | no, not at all; but to make the UI moko friendly ;-) |
| 22:23.36 | daMaestro | aka.. finger based |
| 22:23.41 | Ophelia_ | yes, this was trunk, roh |
| 22:24.01 | daMaestro | i need to figure out what kind of hooks i can use in gtk with the google maps api |
| 22:24.08 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I'm thinking of something basically like google-maps interface. |
| 22:24.48 | SpeedEvil | you have a pane showing the map, which scrolls when you touch near the edge. |
| 22:25.31 | Ophelia_ | cool. then I really have no reason to buy an iPhone ;-) |
| 22:25.46 | SpeedEvil | and then another pane - which normally shows only one of the points information, but then expands out to cover the screen if you touch it, to select a new point |
| 22:26.53 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, i plan on being able to do most of this "offline" |
| 22:27.10 | SpeedEvil | That's the annoying part about the google API. |
| 22:27.14 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, aka.. use most data local; only request listing data from the api |
| 22:27.25 | SpeedEvil | You can't and stay within the terms and conditions of the API. |
| 22:27.31 | SpeedEvil | You can't generally cache anything |
| 22:27.40 | daMaestro | what about KML? what about google gears? |
| 22:27.55 | daMaestro | http://code.google.com/apis/kml/documentation/ http://code.google.com/apis/gears/ |
| 22:27.59 | SpeedEvil | You can probably cache user-generated content. |
| 22:28.09 | SpeedEvil | but not stuff that comes from actual mapping vendors. |
| 22:28.15 | SpeedEvil | Google has a license to show maps to users. |
| 22:28.31 | SpeedEvil | The license to allow users to download and keep maps is enormously more expensive. |
| 22:29.07 | roh | Ophelia_ ok.. hm.. your dump looks like the problem is somewhere in here: "size_t device_read(__ptr_t" |
| 22:29.34 | roh | i suspect the definition of __ptr_t or size_t to be bogus somehow |
| 22:29.42 | roh | which distro are you using? |
| 22:30.13 | Ophelia_ | distro? |
| 22:30.23 | Ophelia_ | I'm building on a Mac |
| 22:30.44 | roh | uuuuh.. now i get it.. |
| 22:30.52 | Ophelia_ | therefore, MacOS X 10.4.7 |
| 22:31.07 | roh | eh.. yeah... i think that has not been tried before... |
| 22:31.14 | roh | propably will need some patching |
| 22:31.28 | Ophelia_ | nice |
| 22:31.38 | roh | try a #define __ptr_t void * |
| 22:32.15 | Ophelia_ | where? |
| 22:32.15 | Ophelia_ | in line 49? |
| 22:32.17 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, well... i guess that means it would be best to assume the device is network enabled |
| 22:32.26 | roh | just put it into device.h somewhere at the start |
| 22:32.40 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, which sucks.. because i am most likely going with a $0.01/KB plan for the phase 1 device |
| 22:32.47 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: yeah - it's not that bad - if you've got a sane dataplan. Especially as you can talk through a compressing host possible. |
| 22:32.48 | *** join/#openmoko Kljaver (n=Raven@195.225.128.22) |
| 22:33.08 | roh | e.g. line 33 |
| 22:33.15 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, do you have any recommendations for a data plan? |
| 22:33.32 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: :/ Locally, it looks like I have to pay $50/mo to get a contract with 1G/mo data. Alternatively, I can buy days at $2 per on pay as you go. I'm in the UK though |
| 22:34.00 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: I'm going to be going with pay as you go. |
| 22:34.10 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil, vodafone ? |
| 22:34.11 | daMaestro | yeah.. here in the US.. it's ~$30/m for 20MB of data |
| 22:34.21 | ScaredyCat | looked at t-mobile? |
| 22:34.23 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: T-mobile |
| 22:34.27 | ScaredyCat | :) |
| 22:34.28 | daMaestro | yeah, i've looked |
| 22:34.49 | daMaestro | i might see if i can do prepay minutes with an unlimited data plan |
| 22:34.50 | ScaredyCat | I thought t-mobile did 10gb/mo for 50 |
| 22:35.08 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: I'm pretty sure there are ways around the actual _WAP_ limitations of the $6 plan |
| 22:35.09 | daMaestro | yeah, but for $50.. you can get an unlimited plan |
| 22:35.13 | ScaredyCat | web n walk or something/ |
| 22:35.14 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 22:35.15 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: I'm talking about "WebnWalk' - in the UK |
| 22:35.24 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, yeah... i've wondered |
| 22:35.26 | AntonTakk | ScaredyCat: i'm pretty sure that I can add unlimited data to my current tmobile plan for $40/mo |
| 22:35.30 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, thus.. i am going 100% prepay |
| 22:35.31 | SpeedEvil | It's 7.50 extra, with any contract, and there is a fair use limit of 1G/mo |
| 22:35.42 | Ophelia_ | line 33 is empty |
| 22:35.51 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: prepay is the same sort of thing then? |
| 22:36.57 | daMaestro | well i was going to do prepay minutes... and then just figure out what i am going to do for data access at a later time |
| 22:37.00 | Ophelia_ | well, I think I will try that tomorrow. Need to go to bed now. |
| 22:37.00 | Ophelia_ | Good Night @ all |
| 22:37.07 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: had any time to look at the MokoMakefile yet? |
| 22:37.08 | ScaredyCat | ya.. i looked at tmobile, (uk) and iirc they have 3 levels, 1gb/3gb/10gb |
| 22:37.11 | daMaestro | i can just use the $0.01/KB plan for a while |
| 22:37.17 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, for what reason? |
| 22:37.37 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: is the $0.01/KB through their wap thinger? |
| 22:37.39 | AntonTakk | trying to build apps for open moko |
| 22:37.48 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, i'm not sure what you get access to with it |
| 22:37.57 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, i just want IP transit.. those bastards |
| 22:38.18 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: probably. |
| 22:38.33 | summatusmentis | well, for instace, w/ my current carrier, I pay $10/mo for unlimited easyedge(wap) access. But I put opera mini, and get full on web |
| 22:39.09 | roh | Ophelia_ yeah.. put #define __ptr_t void * in line 33 and try again |
| 22:39.54 | roh | Ophelia_ n8 |
| 22:40.02 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 22:40.02 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=banyourm@dsl54007FE3.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 22:40.09 | daMaestro | it's kinda lame.. GSM ~= dial up ... we should pay dial up rates.. *aka* $10/month for ip transit |
| 22:40.30 | woglinde | us market is crazy |
| 22:40.36 | daMaestro | very much so. |
| 22:41.29 | SpeedEvil | GSM != dialup |
| 22:41.39 | Vegar | roh: shouldn't that be a typedef? |
| 22:41.50 | SpeedEvil | with dialup, you arn't using a slice of the radio airwaves. |
| 22:41.55 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, yea yeah |
| 22:41.57 | daMaestro | lol |
| 22:42.09 | SpeedEvil | With GSM, you are. Tehre is a finite, and fairly small bandwidth/area for GSM |
| 22:42.35 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, it's only finite between you and the tower |
| 22:42.41 | daMaestro | after that.. it's open access |
| 22:42.46 | SpeedEvil | Bandwidth/area |
| 22:42.50 | daMaestro | t1 or better |
| 22:43.17 | SpeedEvil | You share it with everyone in the possibly up to 15Km diameter range of the basestation. |
| 22:43.54 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, what is the theoretical bitrate a single tower could peak? |
| 22:43.57 | ScaredyCat | t-mobile is better, but it really pisses me off when they say unlimited and then apply a fair use policy which limits you |
| 22:44.27 | SpeedEvil | daMaestro: It's on the order of a few tens of megabits/second IIRC |
| 22:44.32 | daMaestro | i'm not familiar with the band allocations of GSM/GPRS |
| 22:44.38 | daMaestro | ok |
| 22:48.02 | daMaestro | this is why i am getting a phase 1 device... try out the carriers and write all the applications i want to use on the phase2 device |
| 22:48.04 | daMaestro | :-D |
| 22:48.18 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: I'll be waiting to hear which ones are best :-) |
| 22:48.34 | daMaestro | well... here i have a whole 2 to chose from ;-) |
| 22:49.05 | daMaestro | i might manage to track down a random rebrand that has a nice data plan... but i really, really doubt it |
| 22:50.43 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: that's true |
| 22:50.51 | summatusmentis | sprint is cdma right? |
| 22:51.02 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@20150221010.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 22:51.05 | daMaestro | pcs |
| 22:51.18 | daMaestro | verizon is cdma |
| 22:51.52 | summatusmentis | pcs is another option? |
| 22:51.52 | summatusmentis | odd |
| 22:52.35 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM says a hundred or so channels at 270 kbits per, or 30 megabits/second or so. |
| 22:52.49 | SpeedEvil | Or 3 megabytes/second. |
| 22:52.58 | SpeedEvil | Per site |
| 22:53.03 | daMaestro | ahh pcs is just the band |
| 22:53.05 | SpeedEvil | Per tower rather |
| 22:53.14 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77_ (n=gcb77@c-24-16-154-132.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 22:53.36 | daMaestro | 1900Mhz.. which can be cdma, gsm and d-amps |
| 22:54.19 | roh | Vegar dunno.. i just replicated what i found in my headers and what obviously is not defined the same way on osx |
| 22:54.25 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, sprint is cdma |
| 22:54.27 | Vegar | ok |
| 22:54.45 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: ok, that's what I thought... |
| 22:55.06 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, it started as GSM.. then sold that to what has become tbmobile and went with cdma |
| 22:55.22 | summatusmentis | I see, I was probably too young to remember that |
| 23:00.09 | *** part/#openmoko ericjames (i=ericjeld@dynamic-acs-24-144-138-13.zoominternet.net) |
| 23:00.29 | daMaestro | yeah.. i could read for hours about all the carrier technology.. gah |
| 23:00.30 | daMaestro | lol |
| 23:01.27 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeeti1 (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:02.13 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: lol |
| 23:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1096658408.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 23:02.42 | daMaestro | i, for example, didn't know that gsm was a tdma technology |
| 23:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A09F6F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:02.51 | daMaestro | i don't know what i expected.. but yeah |
| 23:03.52 | woglinde | gsm is all the love from europe |
| 23:03.53 | woglinde | hehe |
| 23:04.05 | CoreDump|home | ahem |
| 23:04.23 | CoreDump|home | is anyone else getting lots of duplicated mails on the community list? |
| 23:04.26 | woglinde | i should start learning for my mobil communication course |
| 23:04.55 | daMaestro | CoreDump|home, yeah.. SpeedEvil was just talking about some gmail issue |
| 23:06.03 | CoreDump|home | daMaestro: I see, thanks |
| 23:07.33 | roh | which gmail issue? |
| 23:08.37 | daMaestro | roh, the one you were talking about with him |
| 23:08.50 | daMaestro | (assumed; him)... sorry if i'm wrong |
| 23:08.52 | daMaestro | <SpeedEvil> roh: Google seems to be resending messages to the mailiong list. |
| 23:08.52 | daMaestro | <daMaestro> closest |
| 23:08.52 | daMaestro | <SpeedEvil> It's got the same originating timestamp, but is being resent at intervals by a google system to teh ML. |
| 23:10.38 | hads | I've seen issues like that with gmail addresses on at least one other list. |
| 23:11.05 | roh | daMaestro yeah.. i just do not see them |
| 23:11.12 | roh | could it be a gmail-internal issue? |
| 23:12.07 | SpeedEvil | It is. |
| 23:12.26 | CoreDump|home | it isn't |
| 23:12.27 | SpeedEvil | The originating timestamp - which says transferred over http - is the same |
| 23:12.35 | CoreDump|home | outside users are affected as well |
| 23:12.49 | SpeedEvil | then a google mail machine sends it to the mailing list several times |
| 23:12.53 | SpeedEvil | I'm not on google mail |
| 23:13.57 | SpeedEvil | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July.txt.gz |
| 23:14.35 | roh | SpeedEvil the mails have differen message-ids |
| 23:14.38 | SpeedEvil | At the end |
| 23:14.41 | hads | It seems to happen for particular people sending from gmail for some reason. The list it happened on here banned all gmail addresses from posting for a week or so until the issue stoppped. |
| 23:14.45 | SpeedEvil | yeah - but the same originating time |
| 23:14.51 | roh | compare <27183a390707061404r310e5b44s2dd446f2d9fefab6@mail.gmail.com> and <27183a390707061355l5263c3bauf2647409f5e50c53@mail.gmail.com> |
| 23:14.56 | SpeedEvil | (which the ML archive seems to skip) |
| 23:15.14 | roh | SpeedEvil i still think its a problem on the sending side. means user or googles problem |
| 23:15.25 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - it's googles |
| 23:15.35 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 23:15.52 | SpeedEvil | Unless the ML machine is doing oddness like saying sending failed |
| 23:16.06 | hads | http://www.linux.net.nz/pipermail/nzlug/2006-January/003104.html |
| 23:16.22 | CoreDump|home | the ML could filter duped message IDs, fixing the symptoms |
| 23:17.11 | roh | CoreDump|home the message-ids are NOT dups |
| 23:17.24 | roh | dee above.. same message content, differen ids |
| 23:17.53 | CoreDump|home | heh, right |
| 23:19.13 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.120) |
| 23:19.55 | *** part/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.120) |
| 23:25.00 | Elrond | Hmm, no build on buildhost since nearly 4 days. |
| 23:30.44 | CoreDump|home | that probably means current images do not compile |
| 23:33.22 | roh | CoreDump|home they do. buildhost is not the autobuilder which sends mails |
| 23:33.29 | CoreDump|home | oh, I always thought they were one and the same |
| 23:34.36 | Elrond | roh - Ahh. |
| 23:35.09 | roh | CoreDump|home but if you need a really recent image.. i have always one here on my laptop |
| 23:36.17 | CoreDump|home | roh: thanks for the offer but I currently have a working OM build env ;) |
| 23:41.24 | Elrond | BTW: Do we know, which images/u-boot version will be on the shipped devices? |
| 23:43.24 | roh | dunno.. something which is not too old to be updated |
| 23:43.27 | roh | ;) |
