| 00:00.21 | summatusmentis | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/openmokos-neo-1973-open+source-smartphone-ships-in-october-at-450-to-600-275414.php |
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| 00:08.21 | mortimus | what gentoo packages do i need for qemu to work with graphical |
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| 00:18.06 | BlackBsd | emerge -pv ... |
| 00:18.49 | galexande | i think a highly configurable interface that comes default in the most dumbed-down iphone-alike mode is the thing to do |
| 00:19.03 | galexande | i wonder if i worked on it full time if fic would be so kind as to let me quit my day job :) |
| 00:21.13 | roh | galexande hehe.. that depends.. nobody blocks you to send in a cv ;) on the contrary. were still hiring |
| 00:21.58 | galexande | i hadn't thought of that, but all my paper trail is compilers, not UI, so if I get in it will be only by the merits of my as-yet-to-be-determined contributions :) |
| 00:25.28 | mortimus | I got it it the gentoo package you want is sdl-gfx |
| 00:25.51 | roh | to be exact.. im quite puzzled about the amount of support from the opensource world and the ideas which people send in as mail, compared to the amount of people asking for paid work *g* |
| 00:27.01 | miip | you guys get paid for this? ;) |
| 00:27.08 | woglinde | lol |
| 00:31.01 | roh | miip you see.. were forced to do that.. else people working that hard like harald, sean and the rest of the team all over the world would starve... they have hardly enough time to sleep and eat, not for a second job ;) |
| 00:32.55 | roh | if we could pay somebody to make days 36 hours long we really would need to think about a corporate account |
| 00:34.24 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A578D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:39.51 | mortimus | is the qemu emulation speeds accurate to the speed of the device ? |
| 00:40.21 | roh | nope... qemu runs a bit faster on recent computers |
| 00:40.29 | SuN | Depends on your system :D |
| 00:42.58 | mortimus | the qemu emulation is slow |
| 00:43.32 | mortimus | then again im not used to the mouse only thing |
| 00:43.47 | mortimus | BTW how do you get the keyboard |
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| 00:54.38 | mortimus | getting used to it |
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| 01:11.43 | MacNorthXP | man, i love that 'get back in the drivers seat' spot |
| 01:12.39 | linux_galore | just saw a Video on youtube of a Chinese made iPhone clone, looks pretty similar, the screen isnt as clear and the sounds seems to be from Windows XP |
| 01:13.00 | linux_galore | AU$250 |
| 01:14.29 | linux_galore | search for iphone unbox |
| 01:15.43 | linux_galore | its branded as a tphone |
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| 01:31.56 | mortimus | in mokomake file how to i get it to compile using alsa and not oss? |
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| 01:50.30 | fo0bar | hmm, 400 neos monday, and 248 people in here. stretching it thin ;) |
| 01:55.06 | ynezz | they're already sold out :p |
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| 01:57.34 | Ycros | don't suppose anyone has a time? ;) |
| 01:59.50 | ynezz | as PayPal seems to be lagged, I think, that everybody is just logged in and waiting for a moment to send money :p |
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| 02:02.13 | aloril | fo0bar: I suppose this has already happened, so total of maybe 1000: "Another 600 will be ready before next week." |
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| 02:03.47 | MagicFab | I just noticed the openmoko videos - are they available in Ogg Theora somewhere ? |
| 02:04.12 | fo0bar | aloril: ahh, neat |
| 02:04.18 | MacNorthXP | not that i'm aware of, MagicFab |
| 02:04.44 | MagicFab | is it OK if I download + convert them ? |
| 02:05.02 | aloril | fo0bar: dunno if that helps much, but I hope it delays them running out of Neos enough long so that I get one ;-) |
| 02:05.11 | MacNorthXP | why wouldn't it be? |
| 02:05.17 | MagicFab | ...and are the original files available to do that |
| 02:05.37 | MacNorthXP | you'll have to ask the guy who made them for the 'source' -- there's a thread on the ml |
| 02:05.58 | MagicFab | MacNorthXP, ok tx |
| 02:07.50 | Agrajag- | MagicFab: you can just get them off youtube and convert them yourself |
| 02:08.24 | MacNorthXP | sure, if you don't mind the re-encoding quality hit |
| 02:08.34 | MagicFab | MagicFab, precisely |
| 02:08.46 | MagicFab | oups |
| 02:09.03 | MagicFab | Agrajag-, yes, but I'd rather convert from the original files |
| 02:09.08 | MacNorthXP | can't be too autocomplete lazy here ;-) |
| 02:09.12 | Agrajag- | yeah fair enough |
| 02:11.17 | MagicFab | :) |
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| 02:33.18 | linux_galore | got one of these sitting about 3 feet from my window at work here in Sydney http://blogs.warwick.ac.uk/images/rjhayes/2005/05/24/parrot.jpg |
| 02:34.35 | linux_galore | Crimson Rosella |
| 02:35.41 | sixfeet | ^^ |
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| 02:36.19 | sixfeet | linux_galore, nice view |
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| 02:45.26 | hozer | I suppose you get asked this all the time, but is anyone working on a cdma version? |
| 02:45.32 | __brandon__ | random question: the a680 supports edge for the cingular networks, is there any way to hack in code from that device or does edge require some hardware to operate? |
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| 02:47.16 | galexande | hozer, i think g3 is on the roadmap, but it's a long way off |
| 02:47.23 | galexande | and edge and all that |
| 02:48.31 | arw | hello galexande |
| 02:48.35 | hozer | galexande: is that on the wiki somewhere? |
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| 02:48.43 | __brandon__ | much rather have g3 than edge any day of the week, browsing on my a680 is painful sometimes. |
| 02:48.43 | arw | :) |
| 02:48.59 | galexande | hozer, i'm not sure. it's certainly not official. they've only officially speced out gta01 (next week) and gta02 (like november) |
| 02:49.46 | galexande | lo arw |
| 02:49.51 | arw | :) |
| 02:50.17 | arw | galexande: what time is.. |
| 02:50.26 | galexande | arw, i'm in indiana not belgium :) |
| 02:50.56 | arw | indiana.. u.s.a ? |
| 02:50.59 | galexande | yeah |
| 02:51.07 | arw | good... |
| 02:51.07 | galexande | it's in the middle |
| 02:51.11 | hozer | galexande: .. is g3 another name for gen3 cdma/EVDO ? |
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| 02:52.26 | arw | indiana... indianĂ¡polis |
| 02:52.30 | galexande | hozer, beats me. |
| 02:53.15 | galexande | hozer, i think it's safe to assume that it will be at least a year before it's anything but gsm |
| 02:54.02 | hozer | blarg. As near as I can tell Sprint is the only carrier with a decent EVDO deployment in Iowa |
| 02:54.22 | hozer | I have no idea what the GSM broadband deployments are like |
| 02:57.42 | galexande | i think at&t has gprs data over a lot of the nation, but i don't think it's fast |
| 02:57.47 | galexande | well, of usa |
| 03:04.37 | aloril | hozer: haven't heard anything about cdma version but who knows |
| 03:05.17 | aloril | __brandon__: there was maybe for EDGE in GTA02, but in latest news there was no mention |
| 03:05.20 | MagicFab | I am kind of in a hurry to send those videos around, so I am going to go ahead and d/l them from YT and convert them |
| 03:05.42 | arw | good night to all |
| 03:05.45 | aloril | __brandon__: even if it was just software update, you can't update GSM part (its closed separate modem) |
| 03:06.02 | arw | everybody have a sweet dreams |
| 03:06.11 | arw | :) |
| 03:06.19 | arw | see you |
| 03:06.27 | *** part/#openmoko arw (i=familia@190.24.90.148) |
| 03:17.19 | __brandon__ | so there is a potential update via software to allow edge over gsm? where was there mention of this? do you have a link? |
| 03:18.25 | aloril | user can't update gsm firmware |
| 03:18.57 | aloril | well, in tossug video EDGE was mentioned as *maybe* for GTA02, but latest announcement has no mention |
| 03:20.03 | aloril | __brandon__: basically for now consider no EDGE, no 3G this year |
| 03:20.11 | aloril | next year should be different thing |
| 03:20.41 | __brandon__ | but i have already been waiting over a year to buy one of these bad boys :( |
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| 03:21.46 | aloril | there is wifi in GTA02 though |
| 03:21.50 | __brandon__ | i was considering buying one of the developer phones on jul 9th (if they're not sold out) just to support the project (and play with it of course :) ) and buying one when they come out offically in oct. |
| 03:22.18 | aloril | that is one plan: then you can also do Neo1973 <-> Neo1973 fun |
| 03:22.35 | aloril | or sell GTA01B_b04 at eBay ;-) |
| 03:23.15 | __brandon__ | hmmm... i've been privately been scheming for an excuse to make some of my clients purchase large numbers of them :) |
| 03:23.52 | aloril | hehe |
| 03:24.19 | MagicFab | 'night |
| 03:24.29 | __brandon__ | one of them already use windoze mobile devices to count inventory, if i could have it connect to their wireless network (GTA02) and have it do the same thing... but interfacing w/ a m$ environment can be a pain w/ linux sometimes |
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| 03:49.07 | linux_galore | hozer: from what Im seeing 3G GSm networks uses CDMA for the connection but GSM for the software stack |
| 03:50.42 | linux_galore | __brandon__: samba |
| 03:52.30 | linux_galore | tempted to just buy a NEO as a collectors item then update to a gta02 later |
| 03:54.10 | linux_galore | FIC will have to be careful when pricing the GTA02 though because you also have the Motorola Ming selling for around $500 |
| 03:54.42 | linux_galore | and that has a cam |
| 03:54.48 | linux_galore | and runs Linux |
| 03:55.15 | summatusmentis | but just as a kernel? everything on top of it is closed right? |
| 03:55.27 | rwhitby | hozer, linux_galore: 3G is WCDMA, a completely separare and incompatible protocol from CDMA/EVDO |
| 03:56.23 | rwhitby | If you're comparing GTA02 against a closed Ming, then you're missing the whole point of OpenMoko (unless you're intending to port OpenMoko to the Ming hardware) |
| 03:56.32 | linux_galore | rwhitby: telstra here in AU shut down the CDMA network and updated it as the new 3G network, I know the old CDMA phones are now all bricks |
| 03:57.20 | rwhitby | linux_galore: I'm in AU too. |
| 03:57.21 | linux_galore | rwhitby: yeah thats another issue, people may port the openmoko software to other Linux phones |
| 03:57.48 | rwhitby | linux_galore: OpenMoko specifically want people to do that. |
| 03:58.17 | linux_galore | rwhitby: yeah but it could white ant their hardware market |
| 03:58.19 | rwhitby | OpenMoko is about a whole new paradigm in mobile communication, it's not about a single FIC GTA01/02 phone. |
| 03:58.59 | rwhitby | when you open up a whole new market space, it's actually beneficial to have competitors who help you advertise the new market area and therefore grow the pie for everyone. |
| 03:59.09 | rwhitby | (the same is not true in a mature market space) |
| 04:01.26 | linux_galore | rwhitby: there is a FOSS project for running Linux on a treo apparently they got it booting |
| 04:01.52 | Agrajag- | im a bit confused because i thought i had read that the gta02 will have the faster processer - but now i can't find anything that says that? i must've been imagining it? |
| 04:01.54 | rwhitby | yes, I'm following that closely (my current phone/PDA/internet platform is a Treo650). |
| 04:02.04 | summatusmentis | someone put openmoko on the treo..., afaik |
| 04:02.38 | rwhitby | they have no phone functionality yet, and openmoko has a long way to go before it begins to rival the treo in usability (I'm here to help openmoko bridge that gap) |
| 04:03.12 | rwhitby | (i.e. they have booted openmoko, but it cannot talk to the gsm part, so it's a PDA rather than a phone) |
| 04:03.17 | linux_galore | be funny if Openmoko does turn into a software virus distro for other phones |
| 04:03.41 | rwhitby | it will be ideal for the goals of OpenMoko if indeed that does happen |
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| 04:04.25 | rwhitby | remember that the money is made by sales to millions of Joe Random Users, not to the relatively small number of people who have the technical ability (or desire) to install openmoko on a different phone |
| 04:05.11 | rwhitby | so the act of techo people showing joe random user a better, more open, phone OS will only increase the sales of FIC phones. |
| 04:05.25 | summatusmentis | how many Joe Random Users are gonna buy it? I mean... particularly if the selling point is a completely open phone... most users don't care about that |
| 04:05.47 | summatusmentis | and the ones that do, already buy unlocked phones |
| 04:05.48 | rwhitby | user's don't care about the openness, that's only a means to an end |
| 04:05.52 | rwhitby | users care about applications |
| 04:06.01 | __brandon__ | linux_galore: I have done samba before, it's other aspects of native windows applications that i haven't dealt w/ and would just be a pain for me to deal with (and get support calls on), when it works most of the time with the software from the vendor. think proprietary 3rd party code doing hot syncs and stuffing code into a massive database |
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| 04:06.38 | rwhitby | we have to get past the initial step of an open phone to the next step of brand new application spaces that can *only* be done on open phone which cause joe random user to choose that platform cause they just gotta have that application |
| 04:07.22 | summatusmentis | so... GTA02 is the initial step, and the other devices are the killer apps? |
| 04:08.37 | rwhitby | GTA02 is just a hardware platform |
| 04:08.59 | rwhitby | devices are not important. it's the applications that those devices enable that will grow the market |
| 04:09.14 | rwhitby | have a read of Sean's initial slide set from mid last year. |
| 04:09.23 | summatusmentis | I think i've seen that |
| 04:10.03 | rwhitby | he doesn't talk about having the best hardware, he talks about a completely new mobile communications software platform |
| 04:10.52 | __brandon__ | rwhitby: agreed. opening up the phone to allow developers to develop for the sake of creating killer apps instead of for the sake of lining the the carriers pockets is a much more worthy goal imho |
| 04:10.55 | rwhitby | (of course you need good hardware to enable the best applications, but not hardware just for hardware's sake) |
| 04:11.11 | rwhitby | __brandon__: absolutely |
| 04:11.28 | summatusmentis | FIC still has to make money for this to be feasible |
| 04:12.36 | rwhitby | yep, and they do that initially by selling the phone to developers at a reasonable price |
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| 04:12.51 | rwhitby | (which is why people trying to push down the price is counter-productive to the project as a whole) |
| 04:12.56 | summatusmentis | right, then again when GTA02 comes out |
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| 04:13.27 | summatusmentis | I guess.. it seems like, once openmoko hits the point of having the killer app, FIC is either out of luck, or something will need to be changed up |
| 04:14.46 | rwhitby | even if FIC only get 70% of the open phone market and their competitors get the other 30%, that will still be a huge win compared to the low margins they currently get making hardware that is rebranded by Nokia. |
| 04:15.39 | Agrajag- | summatusmentis: i guess FIC will have then have the initial advantage of having the hardware that all works _now_ |
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| 04:16.37 | rwhitby | Agrajag-: and the reputation of being the company that started it all, and the brand recognition of the "OpenMoko" name |
| 04:17.22 | rwhitby | and the goodwill with the development community so that they get the best apps earlier than people who ignore the development community and only take stable mature baselines. |
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| 04:20.14 | summatusmentis | Agrajag-, rwhitby: that's true... hmm |
| 04:21.38 | __brandon__ | I for one can't wait. 4 days and counting. I've considered hacking my a780 but don't want to be left w/ a brick. I'm seriously considering getting one just to play with and support FIC for being the first to do the right thing in the mobile market where sharks swim |
| 04:22.27 | summatusmentis | if i had more(read: any) disposable income, I'd purchase in 4 days |
| 04:22.35 | summatusmentis | but I'm gonna wait till GTA02 |
| 04:23.15 | __brandon__ | i used to work for a company that developed software for mobile phones, and believe me, developing a piece of software that will run on more than a handful of phones is next to impossible |
| 04:23.25 | Agrajag- | summatusmentis: im with you on that one.. im not sure if it was a mistake at all to announce the better hardware model at the same time |
| 04:24.14 | summatusmentis | well, I'm not sure the dev model was 'announced' exactly, except to the community |
| 04:24.19 | summatusmentis | and lurkers like myself :-) |
| 04:25.02 | __brandon__ | anyhow, that's my 2 cents, i'm no guru by any means but i enjoy my play time :) i'm off for |
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| 04:25.14 | Agrajag- | i guess so. it seems like a fair bit more hardware to have to support though, im not sure how that's going to work since the dev models won't have that hardware |
| 04:25.34 | MagicFab | The videos just finished converting/uploading |
| 04:25.36 | MagicFab | http://people.ubuntu.com/~magicfab/video/openmoko/ |
| 04:26.40 | __brandon__ | ok, maybe i'll stay for the videos :) |
| 04:27.01 | summatusmentis | Agrajag-: it's not support really, as most of the apps being used aren't related to the hardware at all |
| 04:27.44 | summatusmentis | MagicFab: what are these videos of? |
| 04:28.08 | Agrajag- | summatusmentis: i was thinking of the accelerometers mainly - they're not much use without software support. i suppose wifi bit won't need much more once the kernel driver is there |
| 04:28.54 | aloril | Agrajag-: see http://openmoko.com |
| 04:29.04 | aloril | (about CPU and other updates) |
| 04:29.09 | MagicFab | Agrajag-, see http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-July/006340.html |
| 04:29.27 | summatusmentis | Agrajag-: I guess the accelerometers do need to be taken into account. from what I've heard, it won't be terribly difficult to code for them, so I'm assuming it'll be ready for the mass market release |
| 04:31.46 | Agrajag- | aloril: yeah i think i just got confused with the messages about the HXD8 processor and teh announces |
| 04:41.10 | linux_galore | anyone got the link for GTA02 hardware specs Im just checking that gizmodo.com has everything right |
| 04:41.49 | Agrajag- | openmoko.com |
| 04:42.10 | linux_galore | yeah if you go to the openmoko home page there is nothing regarding the GTA02 |
| 04:42.38 | linux_galore | I know its there but I dont want to spend 5 minutes digging |
| 04:43.20 | Agrajag- | man you're lazy.. just scroll down - where there's the bullet points - that's the specs of the gta01 and gta02 |
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| 04:45.39 | aloril | http://www.openmoko.com/ or http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (later one more pruned) |
| 04:48.11 | linux_galore | 2 3D Accelerometers, is that two accelerometers or just 2D 3D ? |
| 04:49.42 | Agrajag- | two 3d accelerometers |
| 04:50.24 | aloril | 2x "3D accelerometers" |
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| 05:10.13 | linux_galore | put my comment on gizmodo |
| 05:10.34 | linux_galore | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/openmokos-neo-1973-open+source-smartphone-ships-in-october-at-450-to-600-275414.php |
| 05:11.50 | aloril | it looks that at least gizmodo would not review GTA01B_v04 as finished phone |
| 05:13.21 | linux_galore | they should do a tungsten version of the GTA02 |
| 05:13.29 | linux_galore | ie the colour |
| 05:16.59 | linux_galore | aloril: being FOSS technically it will neve be a finished product heh. there will always be someone hacking on a new feature |
| 05:17.32 | aloril | linux_galore: right, I wonder if they will get that too ;-) |
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| 05:20.14 | linux_galore | aloril: Im imagining a shark with a openmoko on its head with a big assed laser canon |
| 05:20.42 | linux_galore | the Dr Evil Openmoko kit |
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| 05:25.18 | Richard | Hi, IS FIC developing a commerial mobile phone using openmoko? |
| 05:25.43 | linux_galore | Richard: yep |
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| 05:26.49 | Richard | Which company? and where? |
| 05:27.04 | linux_galore | Richard: FIC are making it |
| 05:28.47 | Richard | But I heard a company of FIC group, called Xinzhong, that's making cell phone, was down. |
| 05:28.47 | linux_galore | Richard: www.openmoko.org |
| 05:29.10 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@s15244973.onlinehome-server.info) |
| 05:30.13 | linux_galore | Richard: the first early adopters version will be on sale this July 9th but you would be wise to wait till October for the better features GTA02, more details openmoko.com |
| 05:30.26 | linux_galore | featured* |
| 05:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 05:32.09 | Richard | Is GTA02 for users or just for developers? |
| 05:32.26 | Agrajag- | users |
| 05:33.15 | Richard | Great, finally there will be a commerial product using open linux solution. |
| 05:33.33 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 05:35.10 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 05:35.14 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.54) |
| 05:41.13 | linux_galore | Richard: there are many Linux mobile phones out already, this one is just completely open |
| 05:42.52 | Ycros | how does the greenphone compare? |
| 05:43.49 | *** join/#openmoko juco (n=vickeryj@12.38.10.116) |
| 05:43.58 | linux_galore | Ycros: well the greenphone is a Trolltech unit and very expensive to develop on (QT Licensing up the wahzu) |
| 05:44.08 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
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| 05:44.24 | Ycros | ah. |
| 05:44.35 | Ycros | unless you write your apps under GPL? |
| 05:44.41 | linux_galore | Ycros: yep |
| 05:44.49 | Ycros | fair enough. |
| 05:45.05 | linux_galore | Ycros: then you have all the linking headaches because its pure gpl not lgpl |
| 05:45.11 | Ycros | I'm surprised the nokia tablets aren't phones |
| 05:45.33 | linux_galore | Ycros: they are when you put skype on them |
| 05:46.00 | aloril | Richard: where did you hear "called Xinzhong, that's making cell phone, was down." ? |
| 05:46.26 | aloril | part of software stack used in greenphone is closed too |
| 05:46.37 | aloril | also its not X11 AFAIC |
| 05:47.05 | *** join/#openmoko duffyd (n=tim@220-131-85-64.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 05:47.34 | Ycros | linux_galore, yeah, but then you need wifi access |
| 05:48.20 | linux_galore | yeah I looked at the greenphone and ignoring the bizaar price (buy three GTA01's for the price) I didnt like the very commercial aspect of it |
| 05:49.22 | Ycros | fair enough, I haven't really looked into it much |
| 05:50.09 | Ycros | so who's buying a gta01, and who's waiting for gta02? |
| 05:51.59 | aloril | Ycros: probably both |
| 05:52.03 | linux_galore | Im waiting because I need wifi |
| 05:52.07 | rwhitby | linux_galore: you don't put Skype on a nokia internet tablet, cause Skype don't exist for them. You do put Gizmo (which is an open standard, using SIP protocols, compared to Skype which is a closed proprietary protocol that interoperates with nothing else) |
| 05:52.16 | aloril | definitely GTA01B_v04 |
| 05:52.40 | linux_galore | rwhitby: there is a skype beta rig for the Nokia N800 |
| 05:52.43 | rwhitby | Skype is to Gizmo as Greenphone is to OpenMoko |
| 05:52.53 | rwhitby | linux_galore: URL? |
| 05:53.22 | linux_galore | rwhitby: Gizmo isnt open either |
| 05:53.23 | rwhitby | (it must have come out in the last few days if there is - there is Skype under development and a video, but no download that I've seen) |
| 05:53.26 | Ycros | the problem is that everyone uses skype |
| 05:53.36 | rwhitby | Gizmo is closed source for an open protocol. |
| 05:53.53 | linux_galore | rwhitbythe Gizmo guys just use open standards ie VoIP |
| 05:54.02 | rwhitby | linux_galore: that's exactly the point |
| 05:54.05 | Ycros | ie. most of my friends and family, and extended family |
| 05:54.19 | rwhitby | Ycros: they could use open standards and Gizmo just as easily. |
| 05:54.28 | rwhitby | (or any other free SIP client0 |
| 05:54.45 | linux_galore | yeah, to be honest gizmo is better for a office setup that way it can work with your VoIP routers etc |
| 05:54.51 | rwhitby | linux_galore: got that Skype beta download URL yet? or is it still vapourware? |
| 05:55.16 | rwhitby | (as it has been since the release of the Nokia N800 many months ago) |
| 05:55.28 | Ycros | rwhitby: perhaps, but then how will they call their friends? |
| 05:55.35 | Ycros | rwhitby: they already have skype |
| 05:56.04 | linux_galore | http://share.skype.com/sites/skypegear/2007/01/the_nokia_n800_skypeenabled_so.html |
| 05:56.06 | rwhitby | Ycros: I'm not a zealot - you use what you choose to use. I'm just pointing out the difference between an open protocol and a closed protocol. |
| 05:56.45 | rwhitby | I can run a SIP client on the OpenMoko and talk to someone running Gizmo. You can't do the same with Skype, and you *never* will be able to do the same unless Skype decides to support the OpenMoko platform. |
| 05:56.48 | linux_galore | I know some N800 dev's have the beta copies of skypes software on test the final release is for July 2007 |
| 05:57.31 | rwhitby | linux_galore: right - still vapourware :-) That article is from January. |
| 05:58.12 | rwhitby | Ycros: so you are at the mercy of Skype, just like you're at the mercy of your existing mobile phone supplier. |
| 05:58.54 | rwhitby | Skype is not compatible with the philosophy of OpenMoko. A SIP client (like Gizmo as an example, but you can just as easily use an open source one) is compatible with the OpenMoko philosophy. |
| 05:59.07 | linux_galore | rwhitby: look at the picture and weep http://jkontherun.blogs.com/.shared/image.html?/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/27/skype_on_nokia_n800.jpg |
| 05:59.08 | rwhitby | But I stand by your right to choose whichever you want to choose :-) |
| 05:59.38 | rwhitby | linux_galore: not arguing that it's in beta. But *I* can't download it now. |
| 06:00.01 | rwhitby | So Gizmo has beaten it by months, with an open protocol to boot. |
| 06:00.23 | linux_galore | rwhitby: vapourware means it doesnt exist even for testing, beta just means its not ready for general use by "normal user" |
| 06:00.44 | rwhitby | (Of course Skype has the marketing power, so there will be more Skype installations than Gizmo installations after it's released. |
| 06:00.54 | rwhitby | linux_galore: yes, it's not vapourware. |
| 06:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 06:01.04 | CM | rwhitby: Do you have a hint on what's going wrong with the qemu flash timeout 300s for me with the latest makefile: http://pastebin.ca/604637 |
| 06:01.06 | linux_galore | rwhitby: Im not saying one is better than the other, to be honest i dont like either they are not truly FOSS |
| 06:01.32 | CM | I've tried updates and rebuilds and all, but not sure where it's going wrong. Do I really have to "make clobber"? |
| 06:01.47 | rwhitby | linux_galore: agreed - the thing about Gizmo is that it uses an open standard, so you *can* replace it with an FOSS alternative. The same it not true for Skype. |
| 06:02.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] |
| 06:02.19 | rwhitby | CM: sorry, no idea about that one. |
| 06:02.33 | rwhitby | I doubt a make clobber would fix it. |
| 06:02.47 | linux_galore | rwhitby: skype has a big problem though, many companies and government departments (universities) block skype but not VoIP |
| 06:02.52 | CM | Ok, I'll wait and see. It's happened before for some people, butnever for me |
| 06:03.20 | rwhitby | linux_galore: the EULA for Skype says that you explicit permit Skype to use *your* computer to route *other* people's calls. That is not acceptable to many people. |
| 06:03.39 | CM | And it really sucks bandwidth and cpu |
| 06:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko aesci99 (n=aesci99@125.33.225.203) |
| 06:04.01 | rwhitby | (but then most people don't even read that EULA, so Skype has free reign on their computer and there is nothing they can do about it) |
| 06:04.16 | linux_galore | rwhitby: skype although a major player is pretty small compared to VoIP |
| 06:04.43 | CM | Made Niklas Zennström pretty rich too |
| 06:04.56 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54928D39.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:04.59 | rwhitby | linux_galore: so let's keep it that way by promoting VoIP solutions for the N800 instead of Skype :-) |
| 06:05.09 | linux_galore | rwhitby: i sell bith skype and VoIP enabled telephones and I have sold thousands of VoIP units but not one skype unit |
| 06:05.13 | linux_galore | both* |
| 06:05.36 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 06:06.18 | linux_galore | rwhitby: i find companies or government view skype as some kids toy and not a serious business solution |
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| 06:08.34 | CM | Phone comments: http://jwz.livejournal.com/777621.html |
| 06:08.55 | CM | I totally agree on nr 3. |
| 06:09.08 | CM | Seems to be that way on almost all phones |
| 06:10.04 | rwhitby | ah Jamie Zawinksi. |
| 06:10.17 | CM | *nod* |
| 06:10.47 | rwhitby | I worked with him on some XEmacs stuff |
| 06:10.49 | rwhitby | good guy |
| 06:10.57 | CM | Heh, cool |
| 06:11.26 | CM | I just know of him from the mail thread thing, netscape and such |
| 06:11.36 | rwhitby | he's a Treo owner too, like me :-) |
| 06:11.59 | CM | I wonder a bit what typing on the neo will be like too |
| 06:12.17 | CM | I mean, how to make it as fast and accurate as we can |
| 06:12.34 | rwhitby | I need a physical keyboard like the Treo650. |
| 06:12.49 | rwhitby | I can't type anywhere near as fast on the virtual keyboard on the Nokia N800. |
| 06:12.51 | linux_galore | if the GTA03 has a fold out keyboard that would be cool |
| 06:13.03 | CM | Nr 4 on his list would be possible with OpenMoko :) |
| 06:13.04 | rwhitby | It's like a 10:1 difference in speed and the same in accuracy too. |
| 06:13.15 | CM | Ouch |
| 06:13.32 | CM | Hmm.. Maybe a small bluetooth kb is the solution then |
| 06:13.46 | rwhitby | I can't carry two devices. |
| 06:13.47 | linux_galore | rwhitby: on my N95 I use a bt keyboard as a work around, works pretty well as I also frind the treo keyboard too small |
| 06:14.44 | rwhitby | anyway, that's just my preference. I won't force it on anyone else. I hope FIC brings out phones with and without keyboards. |
| 06:14.50 | linux_galore | I have a three axis foldup keyboard, its very small and came with a pouch |
| 06:16.10 | linux_galore | I would love something like my N95 running Linux |
| 06:16.26 | linux_galore | but I now have putty running so Im not too fussed |
| 06:17.28 | Richard | I think it'better to have a number keypad. people can type messages without staring on it. |
| 06:18.30 | linux_galore | a bluetooth cord keyboard with 5 buttons would be ideal, type super fast with one hand |
| 06:19.09 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-759bed69022ec13a) |
| 06:20.52 | CM | linux_galore: Bluetooth cord? |
| 06:21.12 | Richard | I like feature phone keypad :) |
| 06:22.34 | aloril | nobody reverse engineered skype protocol? answer: there seems to be at least one reverse engineered program: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skype_Protocol |
| 06:24.25 | CM | aloril: I assume it's the same as with the MSN protocol, that they can change it as they please, and start using hidden extensions and such |
| 06:24.37 | mikesh | counter |
| 06:24.37 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 3 days 05:35:22 (3.233±1.0 days) (1683;246) |
| 06:25.42 | aloril | rwhitby: what is your speed with Treo650? |
| 06:26.03 | rwhitby | fast enough to use it to type long emails. |
| 06:26.14 | aloril | CM: yeah, but still would make client implementing SIP and skype protocol superset |
| 06:26.20 | rwhitby | and to converse on IRC without it being painful. |
| 06:26.25 | linux_galore | CM: there was a kayboard made in the 80's called a cord keyboard because it was just 5 button in a row connected by a cord |
| 06:26.31 | linux_galore | keyboard* |
| 06:26.36 | rwhitby | (IRC typing on Nokia N800 is painful) |
| 06:26.43 | CM | linux_galore: Aha, that explains it :) |
| 06:27.35 | CM | And to sip.. |
| 06:27.44 | linux_galore | CM: Im just saying a simple solution would be a bluetooth unit ie 5 buttons in a row no wires, that can be held in one hand for sms etc |
| 06:28.15 | CM | linux_galore: Tried to type on such a thing? How fast is that? |
| 06:28.32 | CM | I think there's several such gadgets though.. |
| 06:28.50 | rwhitby | I have trouble enough typing on a real keyboard (I use about 3 fingers on each hand) - I doubt I could learn a chording keyboard. |
| 06:29.06 | aloril | rwhitby: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shorthand claims 60-200 wpm |
| 06:29.21 | linux_galore | CM: I actually owned one when I worked for a company called Wordplex in the 80's, I got up to 60WPM |
| 06:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko jonkristian (n=admin@209.80-202-220.nextgentel.com) |
| 06:29.50 | CM | linux_galore: Wow, nice. Hmm.. |
| 06:29.57 | linux_galore | CM: takes allot of practice though |
| 06:29.58 | aloril | thus I believe its possible to implement fast input on touch screen too; also shorthand does not use timing information which is possible on touch screen |
| 06:30.20 | rwhitby | aloril: I don't claim to type quickly compared to someone else using some other technology. I only claim that a physical Treo keyboard is 10 times faster for me personally compared to a virtual on-screen keyboard on a Nokia N800. |
| 06:30.48 | linux_galore | rwhitby: lol, you only use one hand, its a bit like a weird version of morse code |
| 06:31.44 | aloril | linux_galore: looked at http://www.handykey.com/site/twiddler2.html ? |
| 06:31.50 | linux_galore | I saw a video on yourtube a few weeks back were they chalanged two teenagers to beat a couple of guys using more code, the more code guys wiped the floor with the teenagers |
| 06:32.00 | linux_galore | morse* |
| 06:32.27 | linux_galore | aloril: yeah saw that |
| 06:33.14 | aloril | rwhitby: yes, but on screen keyboard is suboptimal (except for small initial learning curve) |
| 06:33.23 | linux_galore | single button more code bluetooth keyboard hack for the NEO, now I have an itch lol |
| 06:33.30 | linux_galore | morse* |
| 06:33.39 | aloril | rwhitby: I suspect that with suitable program and enough learning touch screen could rival your Treo650 speed |
| 06:34.20 | rwhitby | aloril: trouble is that life is too short for me to do that learning |
| 06:34.33 | linux_galore | hmm use a BT headset circuit with a simple tone insert muawahaha |
| 06:34.38 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 06:34.55 | aloril | rwhitby: that might be very well the case also Neo1973 doesn't yet have suitable program IMHO |
| 06:35.23 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:35.32 | linux_galore | some people can type really bloody quick with a normal mobile phone keyboard |
| 06:35.35 | aloril | ideal one would be where you can easily start and soon achieve better speed than traditional on screen keyboard and then gradually increase speed without special stufy |
| 06:35.47 | aloril | s:stufy:study: |
| 06:36.44 | rwhitby | aloril: I can also do quite a bit of typing on the Treo without looking. Difficult to do that on a virtual keyboard. |
| 06:36.57 | rwhitby | muscle memory needs physical cues |
| 06:37.19 | linux_galore | hmm how about this for an idea for single hand typing -> http://xaphoon.com/dataegg/Mykel_Image.jpg |
| 06:37.23 | rwhitby | again, other's mileage may vary :-) |
| 06:37.54 | aloril | rwhitby: I see 2 solutions for that: 1) place independent gestures (except screen edge which you can feel) 2) vibrator feedback |
| 06:38.29 | linux_galore | I like this concept http://xaphoon.com/dataegg/ |
| 06:38.34 | rwhitby | aloril: for me personally, I don't see either of those working. |
| 06:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=chatzill@ip43071.stuwe.fh-schmalkalden.de) |
| 06:39.08 | linux_galore | single handed data entry devices |
| 06:39.08 | aloril | why? circle is circle no matter where on the screen |
| 06:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko alech (n=klink@IP-213188106106.dialin.heagmedianet.de) |
| 06:40.00 | rwhitby | aloril: cause I then need to learn the gestures, instead of just typing on a qwerty keyboard that I've spent 20 years learning. |
| 06:40.20 | rwhitby | (probably 28 actually) |
| 06:40.34 | aloril | true, you would initially need to look at screen, no matter how easy system it would be to start with |
| 06:42.15 | rwhitby | but more power to those who can use complex schemes to type faster on a virtual keyboard. it just ain't me :-) |
| 06:43.35 | aloril | well.. virtual *keyboard* is maybe wrong idea, anyway I suspect there huge amount of research to do |
| 06:44.04 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 06:44.07 | aloril | (though I guess there is something to learn from shorthand guys, albeit that has reportedly quite amount of learning curve) |
| 06:45.32 | linux_galore | aloril: did you look at the NASA data egg link I just posted for a single handed data unput device, the way they do it is interesting but simple |
| 06:45.59 | linux_galore | the keybaord is built into the side of the device |
| 06:46.06 | linux_galore | keyboard* |
| 06:46.55 | linux_galore | they use a method of typing called chord typing |
| 06:47.12 | linux_galore | bit like a guitars notes |
| 06:47.40 | aloril | linux_galore: interesting, sounds similar to twiddler |
| 06:48.41 | aloril | linux_galore: case mod for Neo1973? ;-) |
| 06:48.47 | linux_galore | yep |
| 06:49.09 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549B9C33.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:49.28 | linux_galore | ad 5 buttons to the side of the neo |
| 06:49.42 | aloril | and few to top |
| 06:49.53 | aloril | (for thumb) |
| 06:50.06 | linux_galore | yeah, tabbing can be the thumb |
| 06:50.19 | *** join/#openmoko ericjames (i=ericjeld@dynamic-acs-24-144-138-13.zoominternet.net) |
| 06:51.05 | linux_galore | it fixes all the limitations of the other input methods |
| 06:53.38 | ericjames | how much would the hardware difference between the the GTA01 and the GTA02 effect an end user? |
| 06:53.39 | aloril | ericjames: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 06:54.17 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 06:54.35 | linux_galore | ericjames: it would depend on the users needs |
| 06:54.37 | aloril | faster CPU + GPU -> more glitz and still faster |
| 06:54.42 | aloril | wifi -> many want it |
| 06:55.12 | aloril | accelerometer -> allow various stuff, no doubt new ideas not even expressed yet |
| 06:55.32 | aloril | (simple idea: rotate screen as device is rotated) |
| 06:55.40 | linux_galore | yeah the GPU and the accelerometer's open up a whole new world of hacks |
| 06:56.01 | linux_galore | aloril: use the accelerometers as a key input method |
| 06:56.09 | linux_galore | heh |
| 06:56.32 | linux_galore | now that would take skill |
| 06:57.06 | linux_galore | anyway Im out. |
| 06:57.09 | *** part/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-67-149.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 06:58.16 | *** join/#openmoko __law__ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 06:58.33 | CM | It's like that hack to use the harddisk accelerometer on the macbooks to shift virtual keyboard when you whack it on the side |
| 06:58.46 | aloril | (maybe with sound for output too) |
| 06:58.57 | CM | s/keyboard/desktops/ |
| 06:59.23 | CM | apt_: Change your name |
| 06:59.27 | aloril | actually it might not be hard to write using accelerometer: just draw letter in the air ;-) |
| 06:59.35 | CM | hehe |
| 07:00.52 | aloril | add wand to Neo1973, then make various spell casting gestures and Neo1973 intones spells and sound effects ;-) |
| 07:01.58 | CM | I bet the macbook lightsaber program is soon on the neo |
| 07:03.59 | aloril | what is so cool about Neo1973 compared to Greenphone is that Neo1973 *is* meant to be used as phone/etc.. too not only as development platform |
| 07:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 07:08.32 | aloril | with multitouch screen could implement dataegg in software |
| 07:08.47 | daxxar | Dataegg? |
| 07:09.05 | jonkristian | If im getting the Neo1973 on the 7th july, can i upgrade the parts, f.ex. wifi, when GTA02 comes? |
| 07:09.19 | daxxar | Btw, does the GTA01Bv04 (or whatever it is) have multitouch? |
| 07:09.42 | jonkristian | Srry, July 9th |
| 07:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko Cyph3r-g[_]y (n=Cypher@65.218.234.35) |
| 07:10.00 | aloril | http://xaphoon.com/dataegg/ |
| 07:10.23 | aloril | daxxar: no multitouch (but some of it might be possible to fake) |
| 07:11.12 | aloril | jonkristian: not easy to replace parts, probably easiest just to replace whole PCB (which *might* be possible) |
| 07:11.31 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 07:11.33 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | Wow i just heard about this project and im so psyced about it. I did notice one thing tho, the website says that developers should contact the core team if they want to contribute. Is an SDK going to be released along with a toolchain ? |
| 07:11.33 | aloril | Cyph3r-g[_]y: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:12.19 | aloril | already released months ago (as you can see from FAQ) |
| 07:13.35 | CM | Cyph3r-g[_]y: Just follow the instructions in the wiki and you'll have everything working as soon as you want. :) |
| 07:15.29 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | CM: I feel like a moron for asking that now seeing as its ALL in the FAQ |
| 07:15.30 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | sorry |
| 07:16.20 | CM | Cyph3r-g[_]y: Don't worry, and ask at any time if there's something you can't find in the wiki |
| 07:17.56 | aloril | Cyph3r-g[_]y: I assume you looked at openmoko.com (it doesn't have link into openmoko.org so no surprise you didn't see it) |
| 07:18.34 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | CM: Thanks! I can't express how excited i am that i found this, ive been looking non-stop for a phone like this. |
| 07:19.00 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | aloril: Yes thats excatly what it was, i saw the freenode chanell listing and thought maybe id check here! |
| 07:19.24 | CM | Cyph3r-g[_]y: Good timing then, since the developer version is released next week |
| 07:19.24 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:20.54 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | CM: Yes it is and i plan on grabing it as soon as i can, do you know if possibly there may be backorder issues (so i can be shure to make the purchase as the site goes live) |
| 07:22.12 | CM | Don't think so and I guess they'll underestimate how many they will sell |
| 07:22.40 | CM | I'm hoping I'll be able to order one as soon as the store comes online |
| 07:24.09 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | CM: Hrmm the 9th is now on my todo list. |
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| 07:27.30 | rwhitby | linux_galore, CM: Funnily enough, the new firmware for N800 which includes Skype has *just* been released in the last hour or so. |
| 07:28.21 | CM | rwhitby: Heh, talk about the devil.. ;) |
| 07:33.52 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | CM: Im unshure of if you would know this or not but im shure it wont be in the wiki. The Neo doesnt ship with devices like say a camera, if somone were to develop such a device do you think that OpenMoko would distribute the device ? |
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| 07:35.40 | CM | Cyph3r-g[_]y: I doubt they would.. But I never know. There's some OpenMoko-people in the channel too, they might know what policy they have with these things |
| 07:35.55 | aloril | better mail to mailing list or contact OpenMoko for that question |
| 07:36.09 | CM | Definitely |
| 07:36.45 | CM | Cyph3r-g[_]y: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/ |
| 07:36.59 | CM | Community has a lot of traffic.. |
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| 07:37.39 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:37.44 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | Awsome thankgs guys |
| 07:37.49 | CM | Hello :) |
| 07:37.56 | Cyph3r-g[_]y | Have a good night and ill see you all in the morning! |
| 07:38.07 | CM | Bye |
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| 08:03.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Advertising]] |
| 08:03.30 | aloril | SpeedEvil: assuming we can find out what coded is used in each call, then: take arbitrary cipher data and wrap it and then feed it to decoder and feed resulting voice to encoder and then compare data |
| 08:03.59 | aloril | combined with knowledge of exact algorithm used in decoding and encoding might allow some nifty solution |
| 08:04.53 | aloril | still leaves problem of dropped packets, but maybe that is easier after this much is known and anticipated by adding some additional data to make it easier to decode |
| 08:05.31 | aloril | yeah, still just vague hand waving, but maybe there it could spark usable idea somewhere |
| 08:07.40 | pa-ching | I wonder... I saw that OM is theoretically supported under several Canadian carriers, but can they still restrict its use? Or could I just plug in a SIM card? |
| 08:07.52 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2361 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: * Pin down openmoko-applet-mainmenu to have it buildable during bigger changes. |
| 08:09.14 | aloril | later should be possible |
| 08:09.45 | pa-ching | Cool :) |
| 08:10.11 | pa-ching | Just wondering what sort of response carriers will have to such a phone... |
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| 08:14.44 | wibbit | good day all |
| 08:14.56 | aloril | unless they have blacklists or whitelists: what can they do? |
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| 08:18.38 | pa-ching | I've always thought they have elaborate systems for locking phones and making sneaky contracts with people etc. so I assume the worst :) |
| 08:20.18 | aloril | well, if you buy Neo1973 from elsewhere, how are they going to lock it? ;-) |
| 08:20.38 | aloril | (unless there is backdoor in GSM module, but still can have only effect on it) |
| 08:21.31 | pa-ching | Well yeah, I mean that they seem to be pretty uptight about that thing so maybe they'll just refuse to provide service if you don't use an "approved" phone or something.. *shrug* Yeah, basically a whitelist I guess. |
| 08:21.38 | pa-ching | sort of thing* |
| 08:22.01 | pa-ching | Guess I'll have to look into it locally~ |
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| 08:25.54 | wibbit | I may be wrong, but I got the impression that the mobile operators are able to tell what phone your using, as a lot of the details of the phone are published to the network. |
| 08:26.08 | wibbit | How else are they able to "disable" stolen phones? |
| 08:26.08 | aloril | wibbit: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 08:26.43 | wibbit | If they are able to do it to disable phones reported as stolen I see no reason why they could not expand it to band entire makes/models. |
| 08:26.50 | aloril | wibbit: yes, that is what I refer with white/black list |
| 08:27.05 | wibbit | okie :) |
| 08:28.04 | aloril | there is one phone company that black lists all phones that are not 3G phones and there might be some other company that whitelists phones, but other than that I haven't heard |
| 08:28.13 | aloril | (and stolen phones) |
| 08:28.37 | wibbit | The point is though, that it is technically possible, just not really "rolled out" to it full extent yet. |
| 08:28.53 | wibbit | Ultimately the mobile operators own their networks and can do what ever they like with them :( |
| 08:31.49 | wibbit | I'm assuming the Neo1973, would include pim functionality, I was wondering what was being planned regarding integration with the linux desktop? |
| 08:33.32 | ewanm89_laptop | wibbit: I'm sure we can garantee compatibility. |
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| 08:34.09 | aloril | wibbit: I'm not worried, but then I live in Finland |
| 08:34.44 | aloril | and GSM part is closed part, so there is nothing unusual from mobile operators viewpoint |
| 08:35.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2362 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/openmoko-session/session: |
| 08:35.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * Make sure libgtkstylus.so gtk module is loaded to have tap'n'hold |
| 08:35.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: functionality. |
| 08:37.13 | wibbit | ewanm89_laptop: I was wondering if any one was working with people from the libopensync project, to provide a module for the OpenMoko/ Neo 1973. |
| 08:37.36 | wibbit | aloril; I take it that the finish operators would not restrict access? |
| 08:38.06 | aloril | bundling is forbidden by law here for non 3G phones (which Neo1973 is) |
| 08:38.10 | wibbit | aloril, The GSM module may be closed, but it also removes their ability to control what is bundled (or disabled!) on the phones. for example SIP functionality. |
| 08:38.15 | stefan_schmidt | wibbit: openmoko just uses EDS so the EDS plugin for opensync should work |
| 08:38.16 | wibbit | aloril; ahh, gotcha |
| 08:38.19 | aloril | and for 3G phones they must always offer unbundled version too |
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| 08:38.31 | pa-ching | Interesting... |
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| 08:38.49 | stefan_schmidt | wibbit: Evolution Data Server |
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| 08:39.09 | aloril | wibbit: umm.. why would GSM module have effect on SIP? just use WiFi + your favorite SIP software == no control by carriers |
| 08:39.17 | *** part/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@a064.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 08:39.27 | wibbit | stefan_schmidt: AHHHH, most excellent, that should garentee a reasonable amount of interaction between the OpenMoko and Evolution ;) |
| 08:39.48 | aloril | (wifi for GTA02, not GTA01B_v04) |
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| 08:40.29 | wibbit | aloril: I took your statement regarding the GSM module being closed, to suggest that the mobile operators would have no issue with the phones. However, my point is, that they are also (in the UK at least) concerned about the software that comes ont he phones, and their capabilities. |
| 08:41.23 | wibbit | aloril: For example, Vodafone in the UK, disabled ALL of the VoIP functionality in the Nokia Series 60 phones, preventing third party companies from using the inbuilt functionality (like TruPhone). |
| 08:41.36 | aloril | wibbit: yeah, but GSM is standard: just put your SIM |
| 08:41.59 | aloril | wibbit: well, I assume those phones are bought *from* Vodafone? |
| 08:42.02 | wibbit | aloril: Unless they start blocking phones. But I don't want to be a doom and gloom person, so I'm going to drop it |
| 08:44.17 | ScaredyCat | wibbit, you can still buy unlocked nokia series 60 phones and use them on the vodafone netwrok, they don;t care... |
| 08:44.27 | ScaredyCat | in the uk |
| 08:44.30 | aloril | wibbit: there is light ahead for that kind of stuff, kind of operator supported VOIP (their own type): http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/05/technology/circuits/05pogue.html?ei=5090&en=39e3cc8226651f90&ex=1341288000&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss&pagewanted=print |
| 08:44.33 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: yet... |
| 08:45.18 | ScaredyCat | if they start caring people will move to a different provider... |
| 08:45.44 | ScaredyCat | if I buy an unlocked phone, I want to use it where ever, and in whatever country ... |
| 08:46.07 | ScaredyCat | iff i buy one in the uk and go to .nl i want to be able to put a local provider sim in.... |
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| 08:47.12 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: I'm fairly certain, that you'll find the majority of people don't care :\ And the ones that do will be in the extreme minority. we shall see though. As I said I don't want to be doom and gloom, Even though I jost bot an E70, I'm looking forward to the Neo 1973 hitting the shelves, and being able to buy one. |
| 08:48.15 | ScaredyCat | I'm pretty sure Nokia would make vodafone's life miserable if they stopped unlocked phones being used :) |
| 08:49.37 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: I'd like it if they could, and that is a small saving grace. |
| 08:50.07 | wibbit | I honestly couldn't say where I thought the balance of power sat, with the operators, or people like Nokia |
| 08:51.47 | PMT | I just got a new CDMA phone, but I might buy a Neo1973 just as a cool dev platform. :) |
| 08:52.07 | ScaredyCat | well, tbh I don't think vodafone would see much of a benefit in stopping people... |
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| 08:52.37 | Richard | Does openmoko still need kernel developer? |
| 08:53.07 | Rince | I guess yes, but ask Harald (LaF0rge) |
| 08:53.54 | Richard | Thanks |
| 08:54.06 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: Best is to write to coreteam@openmoko.org with references. |
| 08:54.20 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: Answer can take some time though |
| 08:55.29 | Richard | ok, I will look at hardware infomations and write to coreteam. |
| 08:55.52 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: great |
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| 08:58.01 | wibbit | ScaredyCat: I think if it became "easy" for users to send SMS messages avoiding the costs to the operator, then they may start seeing a bit of a drop in revenue |
| 08:58.34 | wibbit | I have to say, I'm relieved the Neo 1973 won't have a camera |
| 08:58.35 | wibbit | :) |
| 08:59.27 | ScaredyCat | well, sms costs them nowt, so i guess they'd squeel a lot.. |
| 08:59.48 | ScaredyCat | but then with a wifi device you could bypass them anyway |
| 09:01.09 | wibbit | Wifi is good, but it isn't the same, I am only in a wifi enabled area a fraction of the time I use my phone. |
| 09:02.07 | aloril | (script) planet: Daniel Willmann: Can I has a Neo? http://www.totalueberwachung.de/blog/articles/2007/07/06/can-i-has-a-neo |
| 09:04.56 | CM | Hehe (blog post) |
| 09:05.27 | PMT | pic is amazing |
| 09:05.34 | buz | for reasons beyond my understanding, i have several patched rj45 at work, but no wifi |
| 09:05.48 | PMT | Conveniently, you can transform one into the other. |
| 09:05.55 | buz | i could |
| 09:06.08 | buz | policy says only central IT may add wlan coverage |
| 09:06.21 | PMT | buz, so rename your department. |
| 09:06.23 | buz | (but nobody gives a shit about hooking up other stuff, go figure) |
| 09:06.37 | PMT | (it's because wifi is a gaping anus of a security hole) |
| 09:06.49 | buz | not if done right |
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| 09:07.05 | buz | most of the campus has public wlan that only lets you connect to the vpn concentrators |
| 09:07.26 | PMT | That's wifi plus some routers and custom firmware. |
| 09:07.36 | PMT | Whereas plugging wifi into that RJ-45 would just radiate your internets outward. |
| 09:07.54 | buz | dumb simple to emulate that on a wrt54g |
| 09:08.00 | PMT | "Fairly." |
| 09:08.10 | buz | firewall everything except vpn hosts |
| 09:08.13 | buz | takes 1min or so |
| 09:08.32 | buz | oh and to top it off, a lot of uni sites are accessible even without vpn |
| 09:08.41 | buz | so technically, anyone could dos the uni servers from the street |
| 09:08.50 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@host-88-217-199-211.customer.m-online.net) |
| 09:09.02 | PMT | buz but then you need a vpn server |
| 09:09.09 | buz | those exist |
| 09:09.12 | PMT | i know |
| 09:09.27 | PMT | i'm just observing that it's possible to secure it, but most people who "added wifi" would just plug and run. |
| 09:09.51 | buz | yeah |
| 09:09.58 | buz | but then again, you cant really stop people from doing it anyway |
| 09:11.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2363 10/trunk/ (4 files in 4 dirs): |
| 09:11.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * Completely remove openmoko-mainmenu. The finger menu is now merged in |
| 09:11.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: openmoko-applet-mainmenu and started by tap'and'hold on the applet. |
| 09:11.27 | buz | i guess neo needs rj45 then ;) |
| 09:15.18 | wibbit | buz: does the new support USB? |
| 09:15.29 | buz | the old one does |
| 09:15.33 | wibbit | but not the new one? |
| 09:15.35 | buz | so i guess the new one does too |
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| 09:15.45 | wibbit | okie |
| 09:15.53 | buz | you just dont get any power on the port |
| 09:15.59 | buz | so you need to get power elsewhere |
| 09:16.01 | wibbit | I'd rather see a usb based ethernet ability |
| 09:16.07 | ScaredyCat | there is |
| 09:16.20 | buz | usb ethernet is cheap |
| 09:17.25 | wibbit | cheap as in crap, or cheap as in good that it doesn't cost much :) |
| 09:18.26 | ScaredyCat | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#By_using_Ethernet_emulation_over_a_USB_cable |
| 09:18.55 | buz | wibbit: both i guess |
| 09:22.21 | ScaredyCat | plus iirc you can use it in host mode, so as long as you have a driver.... |
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| 09:28.25 | dfsmith | Hi, has anyone here solved a problem with x86/Xephyr and icons not being found? |
| 09:28.26 | aloril | dfsmith: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 09:31.07 | Stephmw | mornin' |
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| 09:47.11 | Richard | It seems NEO1973 phon call recording is sampling from analog signals. what's the quality? |
| 09:51.36 | Richard | and can neo1973 play phone background music? |
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| 09:52.11 | ScaredyCat | without looking, I'd presume it would be gsm |
| 09:52.17 | ScaredyCat | ie no reencoding |
| 09:52.51 | ScaredyCat | you sure it is using the analog signals? |
| 09:53.00 | ScaredyCat | seems a little odd... |
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| 09:53.29 | Richard | because gsm modem don't have digital interface of voice. |
| 09:53.57 | ScaredyCat | :( |
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| 09:56.05 | Richard | Ti Calypso doesn't have pcm or i2s interface. |
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| 10:03.27 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Camera]] [[Talk:Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr]] [[Shipping_Notes]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] |
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| 10:43.02 | Richard | Hi, where can I find NEO1973 sch? |
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| 10:43.25 | woglinde | sch what? |
| 10:43.38 | woglinde | you mean the counter? |
| 10:43.41 | woglinde | !counter |
| 10:43.51 | woglinde | ~counter |
| 10:44.05 | tg | counter |
| 10:44.06 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 3 days 01:15:54 (3.053±1.0 days) (1684;245) |
| 10:44.08 | Richard | schematics |
| 10:44.19 | woglinde | you mean blueprints? |
| 10:44.48 | Richard | schematic circuit diagram |
| 10:44.52 | stefan_schmidt | Schematics are not public yet. we hope to change this in the future... |
| 10:45.02 | woglinde | stefan oh really? |
| 10:45.18 | woglinde | didnt know fic will go so far |
| 10:45.24 | Richard | oh, so people cannot hack drivers |
| 10:45.36 | woglinde | ????? |
| 10:45.45 | stefan_schmidt | woglinde: We hope so. Still much work to do before we can go so far. |
| 10:45.59 | woglinde | what drivers? |
| 10:46.07 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: Why not? It's more about data-sheets as of schematics mostly |
| 10:46.09 | woglinde | the drivers are open beside of the gsm.modul formware |
| 10:46.38 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: And most of the driver are ready with code in svn. |
| 10:46.39 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 10:46.47 | woglinde | speedevil pfff ;) |
| 10:47.09 | Richard | It's not clear how they are connected. |
| 10:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-204-148.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 10:47.22 | woglinde | but I am sure fic hasnt the right to open the schematocs for the gps modul |
| 10:47.30 | SpeedEvil | Probably not. |
| 10:47.44 | mjr | anyway, scematics aside (which indeed aren't that important for driver hacking, really), many of the datasheets are under NDA, even if FIC's drivers will be open. So there's some obstacles here, due to NDA-happy industry practices. |
| 10:48.13 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: It's in the driver code already and if you have a specific question openmoko-kernel should help |
| 10:50.00 | Richard | Thank you ,stefan. will FIC consider to open sch in future? |
| 10:50.11 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@host86-138-106-167.range86-138.btcentralplus.com) |
| 10:51.01 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: There is hope. But that one is more political. More like changing mind and culture in a big company. |
| 10:51.17 | stefan_schmidt | Richard: Be assured we work on this. :) |
| 10:51.35 | Richard | :) |
| 10:52.08 | Richard | another question, what is phone call recording quality? |
| 10:52.17 | SpeedEvil | Richard: as high as you like |
| 10:52.38 | SpeedEvil | Richard: basically, no reason it can't be as high quality as a normal call. |
| 10:52.47 | Richard | and can do phone background music? |
| 10:52.52 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 10:52.55 | SpeedEvil | In principle. |
| 10:53.01 | SpeedEvil | None of this software has been written |
| 10:53.21 | SpeedEvil | However, the incoming and outgoing audio can be effectively be routed through the CPU |
| 10:53.47 | Richard | but in principle, the recorder is smapling analog signals. |
| 10:53.50 | SpeedEvil | so you can do whatever you want - add music, change voices, ... |
| 10:54.13 | SpeedEvil | Well - yes. The quality loss there is zero. |
| 10:54.28 | SpeedEvil | The loss is the horrible GSM codec - due to the low bitrate. |
| 10:57.02 | Richard | ok, I thought it's a problem, but It seems ok now :) |
| 10:57.23 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 10:57.38 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492A8B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 11:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko Richlv (n=rich@81.94.235.186) |
| 11:08.35 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 11:08.41 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
| 11:08.53 | Linux_Galore | hai |
| 11:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0C67B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:09.22 | Richlv | hi. just wanted to wish you all good luck with openmoko - i've never had a phone that would not have some huge problems, thus i hope that this project will be successful :) |
| 11:10.32 | *** join/#openmoko DevonSnow (n=devon@host126-49-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 11:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 11:11.41 | Viko | The terminal under openmoko is just like ny regulr terminal, right? So any console programs could be ran? |
| 11:11.55 | CM | Viko: Yes |
| 11:12.09 | mickeyl | Viko: yes. we may miss some terminal configuration (i.e. backspace doesn't work yet), but it should behave like a stock terminal |
| 11:12.16 | mickeyl | morning, btw |
| 11:12.26 | CM | Morning and wb ;) |
| 11:12.57 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 11:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 11:13.10 | stefan_schmidt | Ah, mickeyl is alive |
| 11:13.12 | stefan_schmidt | :) |
| 11:13.35 | CM | stefan_schmidt: I think he's finally swimmed out from the basement ;) |
| 11:14.06 | Viko | Good things. I want it right now. But i REALLY want WiFi to make it worth the purchase... So I'll wait till GTA2 :D |
| 11:14.44 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 11:15.18 | mickeyl | haha |
| 11:15.23 | mickeyl | i can joke again now |
| 11:15.31 | mickeyl | it wasn't funny the last week |
| 11:15.31 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 11:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@195.90.12.213) |
| 11:18.32 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Can you enlight me about #599? |
| 11:18.38 | stefan_schmidt | !ombug 599 |
| 11:18.38 | mickeyl | let me look |
| 11:18.39 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 599, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 11:18.40 | cdbot2 | * * ruediger(AT)blueboot.org: pulseaudio compilation fails |
| 11:18.41 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=599 |
| 11:18.44 | mickeyl | oh, 599 |
| 11:18.59 | mickeyl | well, the short story is, it works for MACHINE!=x86 |
| 11:19.13 | stefan_schmidt | uh |
| 11:19.38 | mickeyl | the long story is, there are some oddities when building for x86, it's probably not set at alland this makes pulseaudio break |
| 11:19.41 | mickeyl | so we could try |
| 11:19.43 | Kensan | mickeyl: the "fix" in openembedded is quite hackish. |
| 11:19.50 | mickeyl | TARGET_FPU ?= "" |
| 11:19.54 | mickeyl | in pulseaudio |
| 11:20.07 | mickeyl | Kensan: how did they fix it? |
| 11:20.22 | Kensan | mickeyl: introduce yet another variable. |
| 11:20.38 | mickeyl | ah right |
| 11:20.42 | mickeyl | i don't like that |
| 11:21.09 | Kensan | "export TARGET_PFPU = "${TARGET_FPU}"" |
| 11:21.21 | Kensan | see http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/pulseaudio/pulse.inc |
| 11:23.19 | Kensan | mickeyl: imho the export statement is not needed since that variable is defined if the architecture has an fpu |
| 11:23.34 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck41 (n=Miranda@host-88-217-199-211.customer.m-online.net) |
| 11:24.19 | mickeyl | agreed. i'll launch an x86 build soon and then tweak that. |
| 11:25.22 | Kensan | mickeyl: it is only needed in do_install_append and when the FPU is "soft". |
| 11:25.44 | *** part/#openmoko Richlv (n=rich@81.94.235.186) |
| 11:27.05 | ScaredyCat | counter |
| 11:27.06 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 3 days 00:32:54 (3.023±1.0 days) (1685;245) |
| 11:28.17 | Kensan | mickeyl: btw, I think you should disregard the second patch I submitted. The string equality tests make sense for some (very rare) cases on old systems and specific shells. |
| 11:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 11:29.32 | mickeyl | Kensan: ah, so you're adrian |
| 11:29.57 | mickeyl | Kensan: will you be at openexpo in zurich? |
| 11:30.17 | Kensan | mickeyl: I have no idea so far :) |
| 11:31.04 | mickeyl | fair enough. |
| 11:31.22 | Kensan | mickeyl: could very well be. Have not considered it up until now. |
| 11:31.24 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ah, and another enlightenment (heh): bug 126 |
| 11:31.27 | buz | oh another swiss ;) |
| 11:31.31 | stefan_schmidt | !ombug 126 |
| 11:31.32 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 126, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 11:31.33 | cdbot2 | * * sean_mosko(AT)fic.com.tw: Remove back functionality from Main Menu |
| 11:31.34 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=126 |
| 11:31.39 | stefan_schmidt | What does Sean mean here? |
| 11:31.45 | Kensan | mickeyl: some openmoko guys are going to be there? |
| 11:32.08 | stefan_schmidt | Kensan: mickeyl will give a talk IIRC |
| 11:32.13 | buz | mhh sept 19th, maybe we can see GTA02 prototypes ;) |
| 11:32.35 | buz | yeah mickey is even listed on the frontpage ;) |
| 11:32.45 | Kensan | oh ok cool. Then I will seriously consider :) |
| 11:34.07 | Kensan | ah talking right after Chris Dibona. |
| 11:34.19 | buz | now if i could figure out how to get tickets? |
| 11:35.08 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Basically when you are in mainmenu root and press the black part of the fingerwheel the main-menu shouldn't close |
| 11:35.19 | alphaone | That's what I read out of it anyways |
| 11:35.30 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: Hide you mean |
| 11:35.45 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: So toogle with tap'n'hold on the applet? |
| 11:35.49 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Hide, close...it's gone :-) |
| 11:36.05 | alphaone | Yeah, seems like it |
| 11:36.06 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: It just ninja hides... ;) |
| 11:36.22 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: ignore that, the main menu will be ditched anyway |
| 11:36.27 | mickeyl | hey alphaone |
| 11:36.33 | alphaone | hi mickeyl |
| 11:36.37 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt, alphaone: your presents are underway to FFM |
| 11:36.50 | mickeyl | i'll bring them to GUADEC if I have room enough in my suitcase |
| 11:36.51 | alphaone | Cool :-) |
| 11:36.51 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: (presents) great |
| 11:37.13 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: So I should ignore all other bugs about mainmenu? |
| 11:37.15 | mickeyl | (gta02) as a matter of fact, i have one here laying around |
| 11:37.21 | alphaone | mickeyl: The mainmenu will be ditched? |
| 11:37.24 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: until further notice, yes |
| 11:37.29 | Gybrush | has openmoko some patches to gtk+ included that allow true support of animations? or are the animation capibilities restricted to the current gtk hacks (as can be found in e.g. the clearlooks engine)? |
| 11:37.31 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ok |
| 11:37.55 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 11:37.56 | mickeyl | (gta02) if i don't manage to brick it, i'll present some nice demos after GUADEC |
| 11:38.27 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: So what next? Input stuff? Or should I take a look at animations during hold? |
| 11:38.31 | mickeyl | alphaone, stefan_schmidt: along with the restructuring, there has been a focus shift in the OM platform. I need to talk with you in person about that |
| 11:38.40 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: input is definitely very critical, yes |
| 11:38.47 | alphaone | mickeyl: Yeah, sounds like it. |
| 11:38.48 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ACK, GUADEC then? |
| 11:38.53 | mickeyl | yes, guadec. |
| 11:39.19 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: OK, so input stuff. |
| 11:39.20 | alphaone | mickeyl: Okay, so I should focus on the matchbox-keyboard then? |
| 11:39.44 | Gybrush | i'm just asking, because you as devs who use gtk+ on a system with limited screen size, are problably interested in the features that gtk+3 would have to provide and can contribute some good ideas: http://live.gnome.org/GTK%2B/NewThemeApi |
| 11:39.44 | mickeyl | Gybrush: no patches. patching gtk+ was one of my only-over-my-dead-body paradigms, when i joined the project. |
| 11:40.13 | mickeyl | Gybrush: interesting. I'll make a note and add to that page when i have a chance. thanks |
| 11:40.14 | Gybrush | mickeyl, ah, ok.. grat to hear! maemo instead patched a lot afaik |
| 11:40.29 | Gybrush | s/grat/great/ |
| 11:40.39 | mickeyl | alphaone: yes, please. getting this into shape would be really helpful |
| 11:41.46 | Gybrush | mickeyl, cool, thank you ;o) |
| 11:42.01 | mickeyl | np |
| 11:42.02 | Kensan | stefan_schmidt: there's bug #629 with a simple fix that is blocking mokomakefile if you have some spare time ;) |
| 11:42.45 | Gybrush | stefan_schmidt, you are studying at TU-BS, right? |
| 11:43.15 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: Yes, same as alphaone. Why? |
| 11:43.25 | stefan_schmidt | !ombug 629 |
| 11:43.27 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 629, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 11:43.27 | cdbot2 | * * karim.nassar(AT)acm.org: Berkely db recipe URL bad |
| 11:43.28 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=629 |
| 11:43.39 | Gybrush | stefan_schmidt, me, too ;-) |
| 11:43.46 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: cool |
| 11:43.49 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: What? |
| 11:44.08 | Gybrush | stefan_schmidt, we worked together at Video@Home *g* |
| 11:44.14 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: Come over to Affenfelsen. alphaone and me hacking right now |
| 11:44.34 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: ups, give me a name |
| 11:44.37 | alphaone | mickeyl: Okay. I'll focus on that. One thing that's still really painful is gsmd not receiving modem answers some of the time |
| 11:45.20 | alphaone | mickeyl: But you will be working on that with laforge, right? |
| 11:45.34 | Gybrush | stefan_schmidt, sorry, i've currently no time.. but i'm very interested in seeing your phone someday |
| 11:45.45 | Gybrush | stefan_schmidt, Werner. Who's alphaone? |
| 11:45.56 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: ah |
| 11:45.57 | Kensan | mickeyl: what's the status on speeding up init? I noticed that upstart is in openembedded and seems like a great way to speed up things. |
| 11:46.05 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: Some time real names help. :) |
| 11:46.05 | alphaone | Gybrush: Cool, one more person joining the Braunschweig connection :-) |
| 11:46.14 | Gybrush | hehe |
| 11:46.21 | alphaone | Gybrush: Daniel Willmann |
| 11:46.23 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: Just ping me and we can make a date for seeing it. |
| 11:46.32 | Gybrush | ok, cool |
| 11:48.22 | buz | Kensan: as far as i understand, upstart only helps if you resources arent fully used during load |
| 11:48.34 | buz | its not faster per se, just parallelized |
| 11:49.03 | buz | and slightly buggy i might add |
| 11:49.06 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 11:50.17 | alphaone | mickeyl: How far is OE sync coming along? Problem is bug 629 would need a newer berkley db copied into our overlay. Should we wait for OE sync or is it still a way to go? |
| 11:50.19 | Kensan | buz: yes, and IMHO the ressources are not under 100% load during the whole init process since sys-V is sequential. |
| 11:50.40 | Kensan | (io vs cpu bound processes and the such) |
| 11:51.10 | buz | well not having a neo at hand its hard to say |
| 11:51.30 | buz | it most certainly gives a giant boost on multicore systems |
| 11:52.21 | Kensan | buz: it does not need to be multicore or multiprocessor. |
| 11:52.50 | buz | of course not, but there you get a definite, noticeable boost |
| 11:53.28 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 11:53.49 | aloril | mickeyl: are GPU datasheets going to be available or do at least some of people who write 3D driver need to be under NDA? |
| 11:54.33 | mickeyl | alphaone: i want it finished before GUADEC -- which is still a couple of days away, so lets fix it in OM as well. |
| 11:54.37 | Kensan | buz: afaik you get a boost in most cases since all init processes that don't depend on eachother can start in parallel. |
| 11:54.52 | Kensan | buz: the scheduler then takes care of the rest |
| 11:55.03 | buz | yeah but at that point it does depend how much spare resources you have |
| 11:55.05 | SpeedEvil | Kensan: though for a system with no disk latency, it may not be so effective. |
| 11:55.15 | mickeyl | alphaone: (gsm modem) LaF0rge promised me to reserve one full day of gsmd hacking when he is in .tw next week. I hope we can sort everything out then :/ |
| 11:55.40 | Kensan | buz: during init most system have a very low load. |
| 11:55.55 | alphaone | mickeyl: Okay, I'll copy it then. |
| 11:56.13 | mickeyl | Kensan: like a lot of construction sites, we plan to do it but atm. have a severe resource problem (for at least 4 more weeks, I'm afraid) |
| 11:56.34 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: it's not only IO or CPU but also that some processes wait for others to finish (e.g. dhcp) |
| 11:56.37 | mickeyl | Kensan: the major problem is to find out how to a) seamlessly support both init systems |
| 11:56.45 | alphaone | (gsmd) That would be great if that problem is out of the way. |
| 11:56.46 | stefan_schmidt | robtaylor: Congrats to codethink. I wish you success and perhaps our roads will cross in the future. |
| 11:56.47 | mickeyl | Kensan: i.e. without having to duplicate all init scripts |
| 11:57.07 | Kensan | SpeedEvil: while dhclient is waiting for a response from the Server no other process can run so the init-process basically halts. |
| 11:57.12 | robtaylor | stefan_schmidt: hey, thanks :) |
| 11:57.38 | mickeyl | aloril: i don't really know. right now we are concentrating on writing a 2d driver. when we are finished, we will present this to SMedia and then (AFAIK) we negotiate further about 3d |
| 11:57.51 | aloril | ok |
| 11:58.05 | Kensan | mickeyl: I see. I think that upstart can also be usable beyond init since it is event-driven. |
| 11:58.21 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: it can reportedly do avi decoding of some sort, to offload the CPU. Can it also do MP3? |
| 11:58.23 | mickeyl | Kensan: full ACK. it is my favourite solution |
| 11:58.26 | robtaylor | stefan_schmidt: I hope our roads cross soon too! |
| 11:58.39 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: i don't think so. |
| 11:58.42 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: or does the CPU basically have to be on in fast mode to do that too. |
| 11:58.44 | SpeedEvil | Sigh |
| 11:58.47 | buz | i think upstart can still use oldschool init scripts |
| 11:58.53 | SpeedEvil | So that's most of the power saving gone. |
| 11:58.59 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: however... there's a variant that has a RISC machine in it. if we can get smedia to open that up... |
| 11:59.07 | mickeyl | then boom |
| 11:59.12 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: Nice - if possible. |
| 11:59.15 | mickeyl | like programming our own DSP |
| 11:59.16 | mickeyl | :D |
| 11:59.36 | SpeedEvil | If it's all got to be developed by FIC - much less nice. |
| 11:59.38 | buz | mhh at that point it does depend heavily on the speed at which you can feed data back to ram, right? |
| 11:59.43 | buz | some gpu are quite bad at that |
| 11:59.53 | Kensan | mickeyl: I want to look into that once I get hold of a Neo... Having a speedier init would help a lot. |
| 12:00.00 | aloril | counter |
| 12:00.00 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-02T06:19) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 3 days 00:00:00 (3.000±1.0 days) (1686;245) |
| 12:00.22 | buz | i wonder if you can do suspend to flash quickly |
| 12:00.36 | buz | if you basically never have to boot, init time doesnt seem to be very critical to me |
| 12:00.37 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: agreed. but you know... we want all to be open, it's just very hard to negotiate with companies that have been used to this only-closed-IP-is-protected-IP culture |
| 12:01.31 | Kensan | buz: there's the whole event-driven part. I think that will enable a lot of cool functionality. |
| 12:01.52 | mickeyl | yeah. it's not only about boot time performance |
| 12:01.54 | buz | yeah but thats partly doing what hal does i think |
| 12:01.55 | mickeyl | memory requirements |
| 12:01.59 | stefan_schmidt | robtaylor: I have such a feeling. ;) At least we will see at GUADEC I think. |
| 12:02.21 | robtaylor | stefan_schmidt: definitely, I'll be there from the core days onwards |
| 12:02.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:C7]] [[Current_events]] |
| 12:02.41 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Thanks for OE access. Will be really careful. Means perhaps some EZX changes, not more. |
| 12:03.07 | stefan_schmidt | robtaylor: 15. - 19. here |
| 12:03.12 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: don't worry. i trust you a lot, it's just the standard welcome message :D |
| 12:03.23 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: heh |
| 12:03.37 | mickeyl | aloril: Amen! |
| 12:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton_ (i=vicente@77.208.59.184) |
| 12:03.53 | buz | but theres just NFW i would buy inspiron |
| 12:04.57 | CM | buz: I'd like the xps 13.3" ones with linux.. |
| 12:04.59 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@195.221.26.67) |
| 12:05.24 | buz | i want a 15 wide with 1680x1050 |
| 12:05.31 | buz | 1280x800 is too small |
| 12:05.49 | CM | 15" is too big and heavy to drag around ;) |
| 12:05.55 | buz | 2.5kg |
| 12:06.04 | buz | it's at the edge of not being carryable |
| 12:06.13 | buz | but these days i mostly just move it from home to office and back |
| 12:06.17 | buz | no more walking around with it all day |
| 12:06.32 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host81-151-38-51.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 12:06.44 | Richard | what fs does openmoko use for readonly and read/write? cramfs and yaffs2? |
| 12:07.07 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@195.90.12.213) |
| 12:07.16 | buz | jffs2 i think |
| 12:07.18 | woglinde | richard jffs2 yes |
| 12:07.21 | alphaone | Jffs2 for flash |
| 12:07.28 | woglinde | logfs isnt ready yet |
| 12:07.43 | alphaone | whatever you want for sd card |
| 12:08.32 | Richard | what fs for u-disk(based nand)? |
| 12:09.13 | hrw | Richard: u-disk? |
| 12:09.16 | woglinde | u-boot |
| 12:09.26 | woglinde | I guess |
| 12:09.33 | Richard | usb mass storage disk |
| 12:09.45 | buz | whatever you like |
| 12:09.51 | woglinde | didnt that depends on the disk itself? |
| 12:09.52 | buz | but there is no usb storage right now |
| 12:10.02 | woglinde | buz with powered usb hub? |
| 12:10.13 | buz | yeah that should work |
| 12:10.22 | buz | but its not just connect flash drive to neo |
| 12:10.31 | woglinde | right |
| 12:10.35 | Richard | I mean use nand flash as u-disk |
| 12:10.45 | woglinde | vfat has one issue no soft links |
| 12:10.53 | buz | basically, usb storage is a block device like any other, you can format it whatever way you like |
| 12:10.58 | Ycros | why is the port unpowered? |
| 12:11.06 | ewon | battery life, most likely |
| 12:11.19 | Ycros | I have a sharp PDA that runs linux, and it has a powered port |
| 12:11.22 | woglinde | ycros???? |
| 12:11.26 | Ycros | I've run all sorts of things off it |
| 12:11.59 | Richard | fat cannot be on nand, for bad blocks. |
| 12:12.31 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0FF36.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:12.50 | buz | Richard: usb devices etc do write balancing themselves |
| 12:12.53 | buz | so should sd cards |
| 12:13.02 | buz | (basically most everyone does use vfat on flash) |
| 12:13.46 | aloril | or use ext3 for SD |
| 12:13.57 | woglinde | buz yeah becaus most digital cams use dos with fat drivers |
| 12:14.51 | Richard | fat don't have journal feature |
| 12:15.44 | Richard | it may lose data when sudden power loss |
| 12:15.46 | woglinde | you dont want journal on flash |
| 12:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko freenux_ (n=freenux@guest58.crihan.fr) |
| 12:16.28 | woglinde | bye |
| 12:16.31 | buz | a phone should generally not suffer of sudden power loss |
| 12:16.39 | buz | that would be a clear case for a an rma |
| 12:18.00 | *** join/#openmoko koen|edinburgh (n=koen@213.48.19.168) |
| 12:18.32 | buz | personally ill probably use ext2 |
| 12:19.29 | mickeyl | aaaaaaaaaaah hahahaha |
| 12:19.31 | Richard | Do you know mdoc or oneand? |
| 12:19.34 | Richard | onenand |
| 12:19.41 | mickeyl | g |
| 12:20.03 | alphaone | mickeyl: ;-) |
| 12:20.08 | mickeyl | is that wansti? |
| 12:20.25 | alphaone | mickeyl: Yup, it is |
| 12:20.27 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 12:20.28 | mickeyl | really cool |
| 12:20.29 | mickeyl | love it |
| 12:20.41 | mickeyl | Richard: stay away from mdoc. 100% proprietary |
| 12:20.46 | mickeyl | [if that matters to you] |
| 12:21.54 | Richard | I meant mdoc driver. It creates block device on a virtual layer. |
| 12:23.04 | Richard | mdoc doesn't put fat directly on nand flash. |
| 12:29.17 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 12:29.41 | mickeyl | that was a short course :D |
| 12:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@e182122175.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:30.16 | stefan_schmidt | If you understand math there is no need to learn. ;) |
| 12:30.22 | mickeyl | heh |
| 12:30.26 | mickeyl | my wife would disagree |
| 12:30.31 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 12:30.32 | mickeyl | and she knows :D |
| 12:30.49 | mickeyl | ~praise wifes with a Ph.D in math |
| 12:30.50 | apt | All hail wifes with a Ph.D in math! |
| 12:31.19 | koen|edinburgh | hey mickeyl |
| 12:31.55 | zecke | mickeyl: need to do private messages :) |
| 12:32.30 | zecke | mickeyl: is your wife organizing a math gulag? |
| 12:32.39 | ewon | *sigh* |
| 12:32.51 | ewon | irish company claiming to have developed free energy device |
| 12:32.58 | ewon | makes the entire country look like a shower of retards |
| 12:33.09 | SpeedEvil | buz: dropping it may disconnect the battery |
| 12:34.13 | buz | so the accelerometer should do an fsync |
| 12:34.17 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton_ (n=vicente@212.166.192.135) |
| 12:34.48 | mickeyl | zecke: no way ;) she's out of pure maths anyway... doing nice-and-easy statistics for a living now |
| 12:35.05 | buz | nice and easy and statistics somehow dont go in the same sentence |
| 12:35.11 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 12:35.12 | summatusmentis | statistics... :-) that class was not bad at all |
| 12:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko edistar_ (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 12:35.27 | summatusmentis | granted, I was at the high school level |
| 12:36.28 | buz | everything beyond OLS is mostly black magic to me |
| 12:36.33 | SpeedEvil | buz: that's actually a good idea - dropping a significant distance enough to damage it will take time. |
| 12:36.36 | zecke | mickeyl: too bad, now that Bjoern returned I'm homeless again and a math gulag sounded like a perfect place to stay :) |
| 12:36.53 | buz | SpeedEvil: i think hd sensors do something like that |
| 12:36.53 | mickeyl | zecke: "returned"? |
| 12:37.00 | SpeedEvil | buz: they do. |
| 12:37.07 | mickeyl | zecke: he's back in Munich? |
| 12:37.09 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: What's about the office? ;) |
| 12:38.08 | zecke | mickeyl: no, returned from holidays |
| 12:38.10 | ewon | I enjoyed discrete mathematics |
| 12:39.01 | Sup3rkiddo | ewon, you did? |
| 12:39.36 | Sup3rkiddo | i have had just one lecture, sounded easy but i was warned that it wont be easy |
| 12:39.56 | SpeedEvil | Hardware: Is the SPI bus - as exposed on the debug connector - the same bus as is connected to the microSD. |
| 12:40.03 | ewon | Sup3rkiddo: did it back in 2nd year in college, it was mostly just proofs |
| 12:40.05 | SpeedEvil | Or are they seperate. |
| 12:40.24 | Sup3rkiddo | ewon, yeah i am into my third year now.. |
| 12:40.54 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2364 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (5 files in 5 dirs): sync openmoko-base, openmoko-apps, openmoko-panel-plugins, openmoko-inputmethods w/ org.openembedded.dev |
| 12:40.58 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: this semester? isn't it a bit early? |
| 12:41.29 | buz | my semester just ended |
| 12:42.08 | summatusmentis | really? when did you start? |
| 12:42.09 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, third year, 5th sem.....started on monday, its a borked place here |
| 12:42.32 | summatusmentis | 5th sem... like a summer session? |
| 12:42.40 | summatusmentis | or do you have to go straight through? |
| 12:43.00 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, there are only two seasons here, summer and wet summer |
| 12:43.24 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: well, I have to return there :) |
| 12:43.39 | Sup3rkiddo | odd sems start around july and ends in november, even sem starts february |
| 12:43.44 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, howdy |
| 12:43.48 | summatusmentis | Sup3rkiddo: where are you at? in the US, we have a fall session, which starts august or sept, and then a spring session which starts in like jan or feb |
| 12:43.55 | ewon | saem here |
| 12:43.59 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, i am from chennai |
| 12:43.59 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: heh |
| 12:44.16 | summatusmentis | and then some colleges do a summer session, after the spring session is done, june, usually |
| 12:44.17 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Made a decision about future employment now? |
| 12:44.47 | Sup3rkiddo | summatusmentis, na...there is no "fall" here... |
| 12:45.03 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I think lazynes will win |
| 12:45.18 | *** join/#openmoko Philippe (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 12:45.42 | zecke | I won't come to GUADEC as we have a final presentation on the 12th (IIRC) |
| 12:47.09 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: hu, I have mine at 20. and fly back at 19. So what is the problem with 12.? Is |
| 12:47.18 | stefan_schmidt | Its before GUADEC starts |
| 12:47.19 | zecke | let me check dates |
| 12:48.06 | aloril | (script) planet: Jouston Huang: Second week in OpenMoko http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/000226.html |
| 12:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreir1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-52-221.net.novis.pt) |
| 12:50.57 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: presentation is on the 16th |
| 12:51.09 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: damn |
| 12:51.27 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Just say it if you don't like to meet me. ;) |
| 12:51.43 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-77-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 12:51.55 | zecke | you have that in your snail mail already just kidding |
| 12:52.43 | alphaone | zecke: It's okay. I keep telling him, but he still shows up ;-) |
| 12:53.56 | zecke | lol |
| 12:55.10 | mickeyl | heh |
| 12:55.12 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 12:55.30 | mickeyl | zecke: so you're probably too busy to see me next week? |
| 12:55.36 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@c-67-166-49-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 12:56.25 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: You know I'm just kidding. I like you :-) |
| 12:56.28 | zecke | mickeyl: why? |
| 12:56.37 | mickeyl | zecke: preparing your presentation? |
| 12:57.00 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: You just write this because I sit next to you with a knife. |
| 12:57.02 | zecke | mickeyl: we have to turn in slides this monday, and the paper next week |
| 12:57.52 | stefan_schmidt | That reminds me that I have to do two set of slides until monday. LSM and uni. :( |
| 12:58.06 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway, back to real work. |
| 12:58.38 | mickeyl | zecke: I'll try to set up a meeting w/ exactCode mid next week. |
| 12:59.05 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, fresh x86 build. http://pastebin.com/943133 |
| 12:59.13 | mickeyl | if that works, i'm in berlin on Wednesday |
| 12:59.42 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCBCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:00.19 | zecke | mickeyl: wednesday is good (like any other day) |
| 13:01.03 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: hmm, are you in the right directory when make install is called? |
| 13:01.41 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: That is an openmoko-devel-image build after rm -rf tmp/ |
| 13:02.01 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: There should be take care about everything, no? |
| 13:02.54 | zecke | it should, "No rule to install" is weird. I would assume a Makefile is missing in the directory make is getting executed in |
| 13:03.10 | aloril | sounds like things are in track for 2007-07-09 |
| 13:04.01 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I'll dig a bit |
| 13:04.39 | Basheri | I left mokomakefile to build overnight, but it failed due to some errors =( |
| 13:04.55 | Basheri | guess i just have to try again |
| 13:05.29 | stefan_schmidt | Basheri: Look up errors in the bugzilla and add new if they do not exist |
| 13:05.32 | aloril | anyway, in 2 days - 1h lower limit will be passed (actually 2h earlier for earliest place on Earth) |
| 13:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 13:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@c-67-166-49-178.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 13:11.14 | stefan_schmidt | aargh, bitbake 1.8.6 with our svn overlay sounds like a bad idea. I'll try again with the old one until sync |
| 13:11.17 | mickeyl | that's insane stuff |
| 13:11.19 | mickeyl | who did that? |
| 13:11.20 | mickeyl | :D |
| 13:11.24 | Elrond | mickeyl - Hi! :-) |
| 13:11.29 | nohar | on my system bitbake fails not finding gmp |
| 13:11.30 | mickeyl | hey Elleo |
| 13:11.32 | mickeyl | hi Elrond |
| 13:11.38 | nohar | anyone with the same problem ? |
| 13:12.17 | Elrond | mickeyl - Will a patch, that makes dialer start _somewhat_ instead of segfault on systems without dbus running be acceptable? |
| 13:12.37 | mickeyl | Elrond: absolutely |
| 13:12.53 | mickeyl | Elrond: please send it to the openmoko-apps or openmoko-devel list |
| 13:12.59 | mickeyl | thanks! |
| 13:13.26 | Elrond | mickeyl - Huh? I thought to file a bug with [Patch] on it? |
| 13:14.50 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:14.55 | *** join/#openmoko avm (n=avm@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 13:16.25 | mickeyl | sure that works as well |
| 13:16.45 | Elrond | Great. It's easier for me to track that way. :-) |
| 13:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A578D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:18.02 | Ycros | what what what? |
| 13:18.07 | Ycros | what ads? |
| 13:18.24 | aloril | counter_msg (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
| 13:18.24 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in |
| 13:18.37 | aloril | (just added "Second week in OpenMoko" blog entry) |
| 13:18.48 | aloril | (from planet.openmoko.org) |
| 13:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@3e70cb29.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 13:22.16 | mickeyl | they're really cool... if just they weren't using commercial material |
| 13:23.48 | CM | Best iPhone yet: http://daddytypes.com/2007/07/04/my_mom_handknit_an_iphone.php |
| 13:26.28 | mickeyl | heh, fun |
| 13:26.40 | mickeyl | we were first with the paper Neo's though |
| 13:29.34 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest58.crihan.fr) |
| 13:31.01 | aevin | the flow charts in the last post on the planet (by jouston) is a bit out of focus and hard to read. can anyone interpret any interesting new info from them? |
| 13:31.36 | aevin | e.g. http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/pic/%E5%9C%96%E7%89%87003_047%E6%9C%8807.jpg and http://jouston.no-ip.com/archives/pic/%E5%9C%96%E7%89%87002_047%E6%9C%8807.jpg |
| 13:32.58 | aevin | this is for keeping control of numbers of phones in production pipeline, phones available, numbers sold and payed for etc, like a back-end for their webshop? |
| 13:34.43 | drear|laptop | hh3 |
| 13:34.47 | drear|laptop | hehe i meant to say |
| 13:34.51 | Basheri | ( cd build/qemu ; openmoko/flash.sh ../../images/openmoko ) |
| 13:34.51 | Basheri | Splash needs 'pngtopnm' and 'ppmtorgb3' - make sure that they're in $PATH. |
| 13:34.52 | Basheri | make: *** [flash-qemu-official] Error 255 |
| 13:34.54 | Basheri | wtf =S |
| 13:35.08 | Stephmw | Ycros: they're on the mailing list |
| 13:35.33 | Stephmw | Ycros: #3 is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4qP-K1HOMHk |
| 13:35.38 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:35.50 | aevin | Ycros: they're on youtube as flash, or you can watch them here as ogg theora: http://www.openmoko.org.pl/ads/ |
| 13:35.57 | Ycros | yeah, I found them on youtube |
| 13:36.36 | Stephmw | sorry I was a little slow to answer... gotta earn a living :) |
| 13:37.34 | Basheri | i take it back |
| 13:37.51 | Basheri | everything is ok |
| 13:39.29 | Basheri | huoh |
| 13:42.07 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 13:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 13:48.02 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-100-214.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 13:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko jserv2 (n=jserv@linux3.cc.ntu.edu.tw) |
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| 13:57.15 | drear|laptop | aloril, like waiting for christmas. |
| 13:57.21 | aloril | hehe |
| 13:57.49 | alphaone | drear|laptop: Only you know when christmas is going to be :-) |
| 13:58.31 | drear|laptop | alphaone, well someone said that jesus was born on 9th july.. |
| 13:58.51 | Basheri | It's like waiting for surprice birthday party |
| 13:59.11 | drear|laptop | no offence, if someone took that as such. |
| 13:59.19 | Basheri | omg |
| 13:59.50 | Basheri | oh, no offence, if someone took that as such. :D |
| 14:00.16 | Basheri | If find it stupid to say omg, since i'm an atheist :P |
| 14:00.26 | drear|laptop | heh, just being polite. |
| 14:00.55 | Basheri | yep, it's a good thing =) |
| 14:01.40 | aloril | that was 5th comment along lines of "like waiting for Christmas" ;-) |
| 14:01.53 | ScaredyCat | ... but then people often think you have to be religious to believe in god |
| 14:01.58 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 14:02.29 | mjr | that tends to be a prerequirement |
| 14:02.36 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 14:02.43 | ScaredyCat | religion is man made.... |
| 14:02.53 | aloril | store opens at 2007-07-09T23:59 Taiwan time? ;-) |
| 14:02.57 | ScaredyCat | it's a representation/interpretations |
| 14:02.58 | drear|laptop | i hope there are enough gta01s manufactured. |
| 14:03.16 | mjr | ScaredyCat, yes, and if you believe in god, you invariably make some representations/interpretations of said entity :] |
| 14:03.38 | aloril | there will be more, but waiting yet another week or few would be depressing |
| 14:03.40 | drear|laptop | saying that without having a clue what the initial demand will be. |
| 14:03.57 | ScaredyCat | but it wouldn;t be a recognised religion... |
| 14:05.24 | ScaredyCat | isn't openmoko a religion :P |
| 14:05.31 | mjr | no |
| 14:05.35 | Stephmw | not _yet_ :D |
| 14:06.03 | mjr | true enough |
| 14:06.09 | mjr | we'll have to deify Sean |
| 14:07.12 | Stephmw | "We are not worthy!" |
| 14:07.32 | mjr | _I_ am; gimme |
| 14:09.10 | aloril | drear|laptop: yeah, but hard to believe it would not sell out soon (281 nicks here, many plan to buy; 337 nicks in buying_interest_list, probably even bigger % plans to buy and I think of those who will buy only minority is in either) |
| 14:09.58 | Stephmw | "He is not worthy!" |
| 14:10.02 | Stephmw | ... but I am |
| 14:10.12 | *** join/#openmoko eth01 (n=crash@unaffiliated/eth01) |
| 14:10.46 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest58.crihan.fr) |
| 14:10.48 | mjr | buying_interest_list and the channel probably overlap a great deal, though, and about the list being a minority, well, dunno. We'll see. |
| 14:10.56 | mjr | one would hope for insane demand, of course |
| 14:11.13 | drear|laptop | aloril, no doubt about that. and i bet those statistics greatly undermine even the very initial demand, given the broader nix*-community. |
| 14:11.33 | mjr | (however, conditioned on me getting one) |
| 14:11.55 | Moo^^ | hello mjr :) |
| 14:12.13 | aloril | question is more like: will it sell out before or after it hits {/., digg, etc.. high traffic sites} ;-) |
| 14:13.08 | aloril | mjr: many of those who would like to buy haven't even heard about it being soon available or heard at all |
| 14:13.21 | Stephmw | I _want_ one, but I've purchased my last gadget for this year |
| 14:13.52 | mjr | aloril, I just find it hard to believe that interested people would be ignorant at this point |
| 14:14.01 | zipola | I can afford only one phone upgrade so I'll wait for the mass-market one :) |
| 14:14.17 | ScaredyCat | counter |
| 14:14.17 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 21:45:42 (2.907±1.0 days) (1687;245) |
| 14:14.25 | drear|laptop | a good sign is that the pre-publicity has been rather extensive. even in quasi-mainstream media. |
| 14:14.48 | aloril | mjr: maybe for most, but at least one person came here in recent days and said (s)he had never heard about it (IIRC) |
| 14:14.53 | minime | aloril, I don't know about gta_01. after they announced gta_02 I won't be buying gta_01. I need wifi and I think a faster CPU is really handy. |
| 14:15.21 | minime | not even speaking of the accelerometers ;) |
| 14:15.25 | zipola | I guess iPhone is eating publicity. |
| 14:15.53 | drear|laptop | zipola, oh, yes. almost forgot that. |
| 14:15.54 | minime | yeah but it'll calm down. after all its way too expensive |
| 14:16.22 | mjr | minime, and retarted |
| 14:16.29 | mjr | ded... |
| 14:16.29 | minime | ;) |
| 14:16.30 | aloril | over 3000 subscribers to announce mailing list some months ago, dunno what it's now |
| 14:16.32 | mjr | *whistle* |
| 14:17.21 | aloril | anyway, I guess its probably more likely that it sells out after it hits few high traffic sites, not before |
| 14:17.21 | minime | and I think its better for openmoko to have a done product available than always announcing some feature-full device that has not hit the market yet |
| 14:17.38 | minime | yes I agree |
| 14:17.47 | aloril | would be cool though if news those sites was: "I was on sale for some hours but sold out" ;-) |
| 14:18.29 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 14:18.36 | aloril | s:I:It: |
| 14:18.38 | minime | and even if: after all the neo/openmoko right now is not very far in usability. I don't know how many people are brave enough to buy such a device |
| 14:19.03 | aloril | hopefully none that is not ready for rough ride |
| 14:19.08 | drear|laptop | minime, you undermine the people such as those on freenode. |
| 14:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko christoph_ (n=christop@Mfe80.m.pppool.de) |
| 14:19.11 | Ycros | well, maybe people don't know |
| 14:19.20 | Ycros | if it gets on a major news site |
| 14:19.36 | zipola | *cough* slashdot *cough* |
| 14:19.39 | aloril | webshop most likely will tell, but yeah, I guess many will fail to read |
| 14:19.40 | Ycros | it needs to be made clear on the purchasing form |
| 14:19.49 | Ycros | it big red letters |
| 14:19.52 | Ycros | in |
| 14:19.56 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:22.00 | alphaone | mickeyl: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=629 is also an issue in OE. I'll fix the link there, too. |
| 14:23.07 | hrw | alphaone: and it is even reported in OE bugtracker already |
| 14:23.55 | *** join/#openmoko evanpro (n=evan@pdpc/supporter/silver/evanpro) |
| 14:26.21 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 14:26.31 | *** join/#openmoko Moriarty_ (n=jv@adsl-146-83-154.mco.bellsouth.net) |
| 14:26.45 | mickeyl | alphaone: ok, cool |
| 14:27.02 | mickeyl | alphaone: please do all fixes parallel until we officially switch to OE.head |
| 14:27.12 | alphaone | hrw: Oh, thanks. I'll close that then, too |
| 14:27.17 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@conference/kde/aKademy/x-c34a3942579b07ec) |
| 14:28.30 | CoreDump|home | hey alphaone, thanks for looking into (and fixing!) my SIM issue =) |
| 14:30.13 | alphaone | CoreDump|home: np :-) I'm glad it's fixed now. |
| 14:30.14 | mickeyl | yo CoreDump|home |
| 14:30.51 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 14:30.54 | mickeyl | ~lart my buildmachine |
| 14:30.54 | apt | drops a baby grand on my buildmachine |
| 14:31.16 | mickeyl | i need something faster than a dual xeon 2.4Ghz. any recommendations? |
| 14:31.35 | CoreDump|home | dual C2D Xeons |
| 14:31.41 | guaqua | double dualcore soemthings |
| 14:32.04 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=daniel@pd95b5e66.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:32.15 | mickeyl | hmm i wonder how much of a speedup dual c2d would bring |
| 14:32.29 | guaqua | for compiling...depends |
| 14:32.47 | CoreDump|home | mickeyl: the speedup between a normal P4 and a C2D is already brutal |
| 14:33.02 | CoreDump|home | s/a/a single |
| 14:33.27 | mickeyl | CoreDump|home: hmm, yeah. thinking about an 8-core Mac and running linux in parallels |
| 14:33.33 | CoreDump|home | mickeyl: hehe |
| 14:33.46 | CoreDump|home | sounds like FIC is paying well =D |
| 14:33.50 | mickeyl | hahaha |
| 14:33.52 | mickeyl | they aren't |
| 14:33.56 | CoreDump|home | lol |
| 14:34.07 | mickeyl | but seriously, i have no time to spend my money for other things |
| 14:34.11 | mickeyl | might as well buy computers... |
| 14:34.19 | CoreDump|home | right |
| 14:34.56 | hrw | alphaone: it is not solved in OE anyway |
| 14:34.59 | CoreDump|home | my personal deal notebook/tablet is the Panasonic Toughbook CF-19 |
| 14:35.05 | CoreDump|home | s/deal/dream |
| 14:35.14 | CoreDump|home | ~6000$ |
| 14:35.31 | mickeyl | cool. that looks solid! |
| 14:35.40 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b131.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 14:35.40 | hrw | mickeyl: buy server with 8 dualcore opterons |
| 14:35.41 | CM | mickeyl: We've done some server test here at work, and a dualcore 3.6ghz P4 was one third as fast as a 2.3 GHz C2D dual |
| 14:36.01 | mickeyl | CM: really? d'oh, that's quite an improvement |
| 14:36.12 | hrw | mickeyl: or 2 dualcore xeons (I do not know can you use 4 xeons at once) |
| 14:36.12 | CM | For our load that is, integer matrix operations |
| 14:36.15 | CoreDump|home | The C2D is a beast |
| 14:37.00 | mickeyl | hrw: ya, rather 2 dualcore xeons. but then again, might as well buy the Mac which got exactly these babies in there. I don't want to have three distinct desktop computers in my office. 2 + 1 laptop is really enough |
| 14:37.10 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:37.19 | mickeyl | and i want a Mac. as soon as Apple renovates the Cinema displays, I'm in |
| 14:37.30 | alphaone | hrw: Yeah, I'll fix the oe bug, too. |
| 14:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:39.06 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:39.47 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:40.27 | *** join/#openmoko snowmoon (n=ew2193@opus.msc.albany.edu) |
| 14:42.02 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 630 has been created by bruzzone(AT)physics.umn.edu |
| 14:42.03 | cdbot2 | * * voicemail suggestion |
| 14:42.05 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=630 |
| 14:42.34 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@c-71-60-90-23.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:44.38 | summatusmentis | mickeyl: if you need someone to take the dual xeon machine off your hands, I can do that for you ;-) |
| 14:44.54 | summatusmentis | my build machines is an athlon xp-m 2800+ |
| 14:45.15 | mickeyl | well, i rather not ship this outside germany |
| 14:45.25 | mickeyl | besides, i need to have a substitute first anyway :D |
| 14:45.29 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 14:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko rabbit (n=rabbit@host.188.47.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com) |
| 14:46.09 | hrw | mickeyl: get MacPro |
| 14:46.32 | mickeyl | hrw: yeah. almost 99% decided on that |
| 14:46.35 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_gpm (n=thomasg@p57AFF554.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:46.37 | mickeyl | question is what configuration |
| 14:46.44 | hrw | mickeyl: donate dual xeon to LTG :D |
| 14:46.48 | summatusmentis | get the dual quad core |
| 14:47.02 | mickeyl | isn't that a heat and power monster? |
| 14:47.31 | summatusmentis | I don't know about heat, I would assume the power usage would be high |
| 14:47.59 | summatusmentis | but think about it this way, if it produces a lot of heat, you don't have to spend as much heating your house :-P |
| 14:48.23 | *** part/#openmoko chrisG (n=christop@Mfe80.m.pppool.de) |
| 14:48.34 | CM | mickeyl: The TDP isn't that bad: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Xeon_microprocessors#Quad-Core_Server_Processors |
| 14:48.46 | nibbo | thats the one of the upsides on running your own serverpark at your parents house, no worries about the power usage :P |
| 14:49.17 | summatusmentis | my parents get mad at me if I leave my laptop on all the time :-/ |
| 14:49.25 | mickeyl | CM: right |
| 14:49.43 | CM | Not compared to any old netburst cpu |
| 14:49.47 | mickeyl | my wife even always wants to discuss with me about tv and internet radio standby |
| 14:49.50 | mickeyl | sigh |
| 14:50.02 | mickeyl | while we have two PCs and two printers in the basemenet |
| 14:50.07 | mickeyl | 24/7 |
| 14:50.10 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 14:50.12 | guaqua | :D |
| 14:50.15 | nibbo | mickeyl: haha :P |
| 14:50.16 | CM | mickeyl: She doesn't see or hear them ;) |
| 14:50.25 | CM | Therefore they don't exist... |
| 14:50.49 | mickeyl | hehe, right |
| 14:51.20 | guaqua | mickeyl: i'm guessing that's one of the talks you have to have no matter what you do |
| 14:51.27 | hrw | mickeyl: check it in other way - how long you have to work for power bill |
| 14:51.27 | webjames | hey ho |
| 14:51.52 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@Mfe80.m.pppool.de) |
| 14:52.07 | hrw | ~lart dvd writers |
| 14:52.07 | apt | offers dvd writers some herring |
| 14:52.26 | aloril | mickeyl: have you seen this? http://xaphoon.com/dataegg/ this would be quite small footprint keyboard option for some future device (heard here at IRC from linux_galore) |
| 14:52.33 | hrw | DVD+R x16 in dvdrw x18 is burned with less then x8 speed |
| 14:52.42 | *** part/#openmoko rabbit (n=rabbit@host.188.47.23.62.rev.coltfrance.com) |
| 14:52.49 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 14:53.35 | webjames | i just had to re-install my system and now when i try to build openmoko in qemu i get this: http://dpaste.com/13713/ |
| 14:53.56 | kiney_ | counter |
| 14:53.57 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 21:06:03 (2.879±1.0 days) (1688;245) |
| 14:54.56 | mickeyl | hmm, no didn't see this. looks a bit too much Graffiti to me |
| 14:55.11 | snowmoon | Just reading up on openmoko... any idea if it will work with the gizmo project ( SIP/VoIP ) |
| 14:56.37 | hrw | CoreDump|home: from who exactly? |
| 14:56.59 | CoreDump|home | Michelle Bostock |
| 14:57.00 | CM | webjames: I've been getting that for 3 days, not able to get around it |
| 14:57.19 | webjames | CM thanks i thought i had all the correct packages |
| 14:57.23 | CM | webjames: I just removed my whole build/tmp/ and restarted |
| 14:57.33 | hrw | CoreDump|home: http://www.linkedin.com/in/bostock |
| 14:57.46 | CM | It compiled fine until wednesday evening |
| 14:58.02 | CoreDump|home | hrw: I saw that page,yeah |
| 14:58.03 | Ycros | hmm, I should setup an environment |
| 14:58.11 | webjames | CM, i'll leave it a day or two and try again then |
| 14:58.13 | CoreDump|home | but where's the bloody catch |
| 14:58.47 | hrw | CoreDump|home: google selects good developers from net and asks them to work for google |
| 14:59.40 | CoreDump|home | well, I should have gotten myself some sort of CS degree :\ |
| 14:59.59 | CoreDump|home | this is awesome in any case =D |
| 15:00.12 | mickeyl | wansti: i thought the guys in your WG have enough Neo's so they already gave you one? |
| 15:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko BlackBsd (n=brian@72.168.193.117) |
| 15:00.59 | juco | CoreDump|home, congratulations |
| 15:01.05 | CM | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/openmokos-neo-1973-open+source-smartphone-ships-in-october-at-450-to-600-275414.php |
| 15:01.15 | mickeyl | cs degrees are overrated... |
| 15:01.22 | wansti | mickeyl: they did :-) |
| 15:01.27 | summatusmentis | CoreDump|home: does that mean you don't have to go through the interview process? |
| 15:01.44 | wansti | i'm using it to test the ringtones |
| 15:01.46 | CoreDump|home | =) |
| 15:02.05 | CoreDump|home | summatusmentis: I don't think so heh |
| 15:02.06 | zecke | hrw: they don't seem to ask awesome and cute hackers |
| 15:02.21 | mickeyl | google wanted me as an admin |
| 15:02.23 | mickeyl | heh |
| 15:02.25 | hrw | zecke: or want to avoid students |
| 15:02.27 | hrw | mickeyl: me too |
| 15:02.30 | summatusmentis | CoreDump|home: working for google is my dream job, no fair! |
| 15:02.36 | juco | I got an email from a google recruiter at one point |
| 15:02.53 | ScaredyCat | was he sellling viagra? |
| 15:03.07 | mickeyl | honestly, there is hardly anything that i would rather like to do for a living than what I can do now |
| 15:03.42 | mickeyl | hahah |
| 15:03.45 | CoreDump|home | I pretty much like my current job as well.But man....GOOGLE =D |
| 15:03.46 | mickeyl | besides being a pro musician |
| 15:03.49 | mickeyl | shrug |
| 15:04.25 | juco | http://www.linkedin.com/pub/2/5b4/6a6 |
| 15:04.28 | juco | that's who emailed me |
| 15:04.36 | juco | it wasn't a job offer though |
| 15:04.41 | zecke | CoreDump|home: have fun doing the interviews ;) |
| 15:04.41 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@66.83.208.219.nw.nuvox.net) |
| 15:04.50 | CoreDump|home | heh |
| 15:05.01 | zecke | I have heard they have free food, free clothes, they might have beds as well |
| 15:05.22 | juco | the email she sent me was a request to apply to this job: http://www.google.com/support/jobs/bin/answer.py?answer=23591 |
| 15:05.36 | ScaredyCat | yeah, zecke - but the own you. |
| 15:05.43 | ScaredyCat | s/the/they/ |
| 15:05.45 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DBB04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:05.49 | juco | I think its a position that is constantly open |
| 15:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-209-76.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 15:06.32 | juco | the "qualifications" section is rather broad |
| 15:07.43 | Sup3rkiddo | CoreDump|home, you are making me jealous |
| 15:07.51 | summatusmentis | they only own you if you let them, from what i've heard |
| 15:08.14 | CoreDump|home | well, if anything, this will rise me into uber-geekdom with my friend hehe |
| 15:08.45 | summatusmentis | I'll just respect you even more :-) |
| 15:09.02 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0ED0B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:09.17 | juco | would you have to relocate for the job? |
| 15:10.08 | *** join/#openmoko christoph_ (n=christop@Mcae3.m.pppool.de) |
| 15:10.42 | summatusmentis | at least act on it first ;-) |
| 15:11.02 | *** part/#openmoko avm (n=avm@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 15:11.05 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@conference/kde/aKademy/x-edda70b4efcfbdf4) |
| 15:11.11 | hrw | bye |
| 15:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 15:11.43 | *** join/#openmoko r4kY (n=Ladder_@ws42127.studby.hig.no) |
| 15:13.16 | *** part/#openmoko christoph (n=christop@Mcae3.m.pppool.de) |
| 15:17.39 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178118070.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 15:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko drear|laptop (n=drear@nblzone-208-36.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 15:27.06 | kamathln | Hi [absolute-newbie-alert] is it possible to simulate a USB hub in openmoko ? |
| 15:27.18 | kamathln | and access all it's devices? |
| 15:27.45 | kamathln | and simulate some devices in software? |
| 15:28.05 | mjr | what do you mean "access all its devices"? |
| 15:28.08 | CoreDump|home | you can use a powered USB hub with the neo |
| 15:28.15 | woglinde | maybee you mean qemu |
| 15:28.22 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 15:28.23 | woglinde | which emulates the neo |
| 15:28.28 | mjr | anyway, yes, linux can emulate some usb devices such as a network device, block device |
| 15:28.32 | woglinde | openmoko is more software |
| 15:29.13 | mjr | so you can have your phone act as either one, probably both also at the same time but I'm not 100% certain, not having looked at those things too much |
| 15:29.52 | summatusmentis | idk, on the Z, usb host and usb networking can't happen at the same time, because of module issues, afaik |
| 15:30.01 | summatusmentis | the modules can be loaded, but are incompatible |
| 15:30.39 | mjr | yes, one would expect that the port will have to be either a host or a device at any one time |
| 15:30.45 | *** join/#openmoko r4kY (n=Ladder_@ws42127.studby.hig.no) |
| 15:30.50 | kamathln | summatusmentis: :-( thx for telling.. thats what I wanted to do . :-( |
| 15:31.55 | kamathln | more than just that, can I do networking and at the same time access neo's cam as a usb web-cam ? |
| 15:32.05 | mjr | what cam? |
| 15:32.33 | kamathln | oh.. does neo have a camera ? |
| 15:32.43 | mjr | no. |
| 15:32.48 | *** join/#openmoko ddwarf (n=ddwarf@157.159.80.153) |
| 15:32.50 | kamathln | :-( |
| 15:32.52 | kamathln | ok.. |
| 15:33.38 | kamathln | my idea was to simulate more than one usb gadgets at the same time.. |
| 15:34.07 | kamathln | like I can simulate a USB keyboard and USB mouse right ? |
| 15:34.07 | kamathln | [parellal] |
| 15:34.45 | kamathln | s/parellal/parallel |
| 15:34.49 | kamathln | ?? |
| 15:35.33 | kamathln | if we can, we can use it at emergency times when the keyboard or mouse is not available! |
| 15:36.22 | *** join/#openmoko Rotlaus (n=andre@pdbn-4db567c2.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:37.18 | *** part/#openmoko kamathln (n=kamathln@anubhav.deeproot.co.in) |
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| 15:47.44 | *** join/#openmoko fralef (n=fralef@142.92.41.245) |
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| 15:52.30 | *** join/#openmoko HeinMueck (n=Miranda@dslb-088-064-013-082.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:52.46 | unique | irc.gimp.org/ |
| 15:52.54 | unique | sry wrong window |
| 15:54.38 | Basheri | I shall never forgive you |
| 15:55.21 | CM | Hehe |
| 15:56.20 | *** join/#openmoko fralef (n=fralef@142.92.41.245) |
| 15:57.01 | *** join/#openmoko DevonSnow (n=devon@host126-49-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 15:58.54 | *** part/#openmoko DevonSnow (n=devon@host126-49-dynamic.2-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 16:01.21 | unique | *g* |
| 16:03.47 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GPS_Navigation]] [[Talk:Advertising]] |
| 16:08.55 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 16:17.58 | jedix | will there be a dev option of the version with wifi? |
| 16:18.05 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 16:18.09 | SpeedEvil | No hardware yet |
| 16:18.22 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0ED0B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:18.33 | jedix | no hardware yet? |
| 16:18.34 | SpeedEvil | well - there may be 1 or 2 units around - but it's not ready for sale. |
| 16:18.57 | Basheri | MokoMakefile is awesome <3 |
| 16:19.01 | Basheri | btw :P |
| 16:19.24 | jedix | I was asking to figure out if I should buy or wait until a wifi version is ready |
| 16:19.37 | jedix | website says oct |
| 16:20.12 | Basheri | if you want wifi, you'll have to wait |
| 16:20.29 | SpeedEvil | Or plug it in. |
| 16:20.34 | Basheri | yeh |
| 16:21.29 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177611334.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:22.55 | aloril | battery replacement for iPhone: $114.95 : http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070705/ap_on_hi_te/apple_iphone |
| 16:23.39 | Basheri | :FFFFFF |
| 16:23.50 | Basheri | They sure know how to profit =) |
| 16:24.14 | aloril | jedix: there will be advanced and base version of GTA02 (WiFi) version too (though for development advanced is rarely needed, see faq) |
| 16:25.08 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:25.30 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2365 10/trunk/oe/packages/db/ (5 files in 2 dirs): * Updated URL of packages/db/db3_3.2.9.bb (Closes bug #629) |
| 16:25.35 | *** join/#openmoko _andred (n=snatch@62.75.169.150) |
| 16:26.35 | jedix | so as long as I stay with non-kernel/uboot sutff I should be fine |
| 16:26.46 | jedix | I thought uboot was not gpl |
| 16:26.46 | Moriarty_ | non-uboot, I believe. |
| 16:27.01 | *** join/#openmoko khester_ (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 16:27.03 | jedix | iirc from a talk at OLS 2006 |
| 16:27.58 | don-o | counter |
| 16:27.58 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 19:32:01 (2.814±1.0 days) (1689;245) |
| 16:28.03 | woglinde | http://www.denx.de/wiki/UBoot/WebHome |
| 16:28.07 | don-o | omg its back and its updated. |
| 16:28.19 | woglinde | yes |
| 16:28.27 | don-o | only 60% confidence?? |
| 16:28.35 | aloril | jedix: most of kernel work OK too |
| 16:28.53 | aloril | don-o: well, 80% confidence for that week |
| 16:29.10 | aloril | don-o: it could be delayed by day for example, uncertainty range is quite small |
| 16:29.25 | don-o | aloril: ah i see. |
| 16:29.33 | jedix | aloril: I enjoy a debug console though |
| 16:29.39 | alphaone | Kensan: db3 Bug should be fixed |
| 16:29.58 | aloril | jedix: OK |
| 16:30.09 | jedix | thnaks for the info though |
| 16:30.44 | alphaone | !OMbug 629 |
| 16:30.45 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 629, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown |
| 16:30.46 | cdbot2 | * * karim.nassar(AT)acm.org: Berkely db recipe URL bad |
| 16:30.47 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=629 |
| 16:33.05 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@ACB4AA8B.ipt.aol.com) |
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| 16:52.20 | Kensan | alphaone: cool, thanks. |
| 16:53.56 | alphaone | mp |
| 16:53.57 | *** join/#openmoko lextul (n=thomas@80.64.176.30) |
| 16:54.05 | alphaone | s/m/n/ |
| 16:58.50 | Kensan | Is there some statistic about the new/fixed/closed bug ratio? |
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| 17:05.05 | PBeck | re |
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| 17:06.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2366 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/data/Makefile.am: Add dist_ to service_in_files, so it is included in tars |
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| 17:16.40 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2367 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/ (moko-message-dialog.c moko-tree-view.c): |
| 17:16.40 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-tree-view.c: |
| 17:16.40 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (moko_tree_view_size_request): Make function static |
| 17:16.40 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-message-dialog.c: |
| 17:16.42 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Prevent a segfault in moko_message_dialog_realize_cb |
| 17:17.11 | alphaone | Damnit...last one was thanks to elrond |
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| 17:21.13 | Elrond | alphaone - Hey, no problem. :-) |
| 17:21.46 | Elrond | alphaone - Well, you can a) write a reply on the commit-log ML b) I think, one can change commit messages after commiting. ;) |
| 17:24.45 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-53-134.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:28.03 | kiney_ | counter |
| 17:28.04 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 18:31:56 (2.772±1.0 days) (1690;245) |
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| 17:48.10 | alphaone | Elrond: Unfortunately b) is only possible by dumping the complete svn rep, changing the message and loading everything else back in. |
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| 17:59.27 | Elrond | alphaone - I think, it's possible using some svn-admin command or so. |
| 18:01.29 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 18:02.00 | Elrond | alphaone - It's an su*version FAQ: http://subversion.tigris.org/faq.html#change-log-msg |
| 18:04.07 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 18:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
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| 18:19.05 | alphaone | Elrond: Well, I went with a) now. |
| 18:19.48 | alphaone | Revision props are immutable on our repository. |
| 18:21.40 | thomasg_gpm | hm, how does the touchscreen differentiate between a click and positioning of the pointer? does it? |
| 18:22.24 | thomasg_gpm | I mean, if I put my finger on the touchscreen, hold it and move it around - is it like the left mousebutton was hold? |
| 18:23.44 | jeddy3 | positioning of the pointer? it's absolute positioned...it goes where you point, no need to move it around |
| 18:24.02 | Viko | It reads your mind. through your finger.. Much better than multitouch. |
| 18:24.08 | thomasg_gpm | ^^ |
| 18:24.52 | ossman | any known problems with current build? |
| 18:25.00 | ossman | touchscreen is dead :/ |
| 18:25.59 | thomasg_gpm | if Viko was right, I'd send you to a neurologist :) |
| 18:26.08 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-151-38-51.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:29.10 | Viko | How true. |
| 18:29.31 | *** part/#openmoko avm (n=avm@jabber.hst.ru) |
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| 18:46.17 | Basheri | thank god for cache <3 |
| 18:46.38 | Basheri | i ran out of disk space in the middle of building |
| 18:46.57 | don-o | Basheri: ha. been there. |
| 18:47.11 | Basheri | It would have been quite lame to start over after cleaning my hd :P |
| 18:49.01 | keesj | counter |
| 18:49.02 | aloril | (last update 2007-07-06T13:15) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in 2 days 17:10:58 (2.716±1.0 days) (1691;246) |
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| 19:02.19 | noidd | anyone got a hi-res image of the black neo? |
| 19:02.31 | noidd | I can only see the white + orange on the wiki |
| 19:03.34 | Viko | noidd: try flickr. |
| 19:03.39 | noidd | k |
| 19:03.44 | Viko | and search for the openkoko group |
| 19:03.58 | noidd | perfect |
| 19:03.58 | noidd | thx |
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| 19:41.00 | Elrond | alphaone - :-) |
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| 20:03.27 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 20:51.53 | CM | webjames: I removed my whole tmp dir and rebuilt everything and now I don't get the uboot flash timeout any more |
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| 21:12.10 | Elrond | OT: Any recommendations for a small NAS? |
| 21:12.29 | woglinde | nslu2? |
| 21:12.34 | Aria | NSLU2 ;-) |
| 21:12.44 | woglinde | ful oe support |
| 21:12.46 | woglinde | full |
| 21:15.38 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@dyn-62-56-67-29.dslaccess.co.uk) |
| 21:15.48 | PBeck | bye |
| 21:23.32 | Elrond | woglinde - Well, I'm more looking for something to put SATA or IDE disks in. Not usb connectors. |
| 21:23.44 | woglinde | oh |
| 21:23.51 | woglinde | hm |
| 21:24.08 | woglinde | there I dont know something with opensource |
| 21:24.40 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 21:25.57 | Elrond | Well, opensource isn't 100% needed. Just "nice to have". |
| 21:28.21 | woglinde | elrond let me check geizhals |
| 21:30.53 | rtp | Elrond: thecus n2100 and intel ss4000e are coming into my mind. There are others similar nas but I don't remember their name |
| 21:31.15 | woglinde | sonic something has such too |
| 21:32.33 | Elrond | rtp - Ahh. I already heard about the thecus. Just couldn't find a price in .de for them... |
| 21:33.11 | woglinde | hm |
| 21:33.18 | woglinde | which price? |
| 21:33.34 | Elrond | For the thecus n2100 for example, or n4100(+) |
| 21:34.07 | woglinde | netgear has something too |
| 21:34.09 | woglinde | http://www.hd-computer.de/detail/netgear/41591-storage-center-sc101.aspx |
| 21:35.09 | Elrond | Do the netgear thingies properly support nfs? |
| 21:35.29 | SpeedEvil | Does the NK770 have USB2 host? |
| 21:35.50 | woglinde | oh |
| 21:35.52 | woglinde | nfs |
| 21:35.55 | woglinde | thas a stopper |
| 21:38.01 | woglinde | elrond the netgear suckz |
| 21:38.06 | woglinde | http://www.netgear.de/Support/FAQ/sc101faq.html#8 |
| 21:39.42 | *** part/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 21:39.48 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 21:39.56 | woglinde | elrond hm raidsonic |
| 21:39.58 | woglinde | it was |
| 21:40.03 | woglinde | they supporting nfs |
| 21:41.39 | Elrond | woglinde - Any url? |
| 21:41.43 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 21:42.02 | woglinde | http://www.kmelektronik.de/ search NAS |
| 21:42.22 | woglinde | but they dont say about nfs amzon does, try to find the real homepage |
| 21:43.35 | woglinde | uh raidsonic seems to be a german company |
| 21:45.11 | woglinde | elrond -> http://www.raidsonic.de/de/pages/service/faq.php |
| 21:47.12 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@M4549.m.pppool.de) |
| 21:47.38 | miip | you could use some old pc and freenas... (freenas.org) |
| 21:47.46 | miip | its a lot cheaper :) |
| 21:47.53 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCBCE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:48.37 | *** part/#openmoko ruimoreir1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-52-221.net.novis.pt) |
| 21:48.42 | Elrond | miip - Well, that's exactly, what my friend wants not to do. ;-) |
| 21:49.10 | Aria | I ran into some really nice inexpensiveish iSCSI gear lately. Netgear. |
| 21:49.11 | miip | ahh ok ;) |
| 21:49.44 | woglinde | elrond seems raidsonic is a gpl violator |
| 21:51.37 | SpeedEvil | iSCSI over GPRS? :) |
| 21:51.47 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *G* |
| 21:51.54 | Elrond | woglinde - Oh, great. |
| 21:52.41 | woglinde | http://www.freelists.org/archives/nas-2000/05-2007/msg00091.html |
| 21:52.47 | Aria | Now that is evil. |
| 21:52.52 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p549531DB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 21:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko tessier_ (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) |
| 21:59.24 | tessier_ | Hello all! |
| 22:01.13 | SpeedEvil | Hello. |
| 22:02.23 | Aria | Herro |
| 22:03.47 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[S3c2410_boot_usb/it]] [[S3c2410_boot_usb]] [[Wiggler]] [[Wiggler/it]] [[Sjf2410-linux/it]] [[Sjf2410-linux]] |
| 22:04.06 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:05.54 | tessier_ | So where do I place my order on July 9th? |
| 22:06.02 | *** join/#openmoko lrg_ (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 22:06.59 | cjb | openmoko.com, at a guess. |
| 22:08.27 | ynezz | there will be just "sold out" banner :p |
| 22:08.27 | SpeedEvil | The purchasing system is reportedly complete. |
| 22:08.48 | tessier_ | Will is stop being for sale on openmoko.com for $300 in October? |
| 22:09.04 | Elrond | tessier_ - We don't know. I hope not. |
| 22:09.09 | tessier_ | Or will those "in the know" get it for the cheaper price from openmoko.com and everything else gets it from the local salesdroid for the higher price? |
| 22:09.11 | tessier_ | ok |
| 22:09.37 | Elrond | The salesdruid will sell the GTA02. |
| 22:09.46 | SpeedEvil | We don't know this. |
| 22:09.53 | Elrond | The question is, if the GTA01 will be available for $300. |
| 22:09.58 | Elrond | ... later on. |
| 22:10.03 | SpeedEvil | October is an insane schedule to expect it to be available in retail outlets IMO. |
| 22:10.35 | SpeedEvil | Because they have to have working software probably a couple of months at least before sale so a purchasing decision can be made. |
| 22:10.57 | SpeedEvil | Which, at the moment looks unlikely without alien intervention. |
| 22:11.10 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Right. Not to mention, that the hardware has to be beta tested until then... and AFAIK they only have prototypes? |
| 22:11.42 | Elrond | ... extrapolating the hardware related delays from GTA01.... well... *I* don't see the GTA02 in Octobre in a shop nearm me. |
| 22:12.17 | noidd | saying that, the have had a re-org which was designed to make that process more efficient |
| 22:12.30 | noidd | so I have faith :-) |
| 22:12.37 | SpeedEvil | More efficient doesn't mean that one coder can do the work of 100. |
| 22:12.52 | Elrond | Right, right, right. |
| 22:12.54 | Aria | But the point of a developer's release is to get some stuff developed. |
| 22:12.59 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 22:13.02 | Aria | And I for one have my toolkit ready to start developing |
| 22:13.28 | noidd | No, the point of that re-org if I read is correctly was to put more focus and effeciency on the hardware side |
| 22:13.31 | Elrond | But they can't expect us to do _all_ the work. :-) |
| 22:13.39 | noidd | which hopefully means that GTA2 will suffer from less iterations |
| 22:13.42 | SpeedEvil | But do you really expect retail-class software in 2 months Aria? |
| 22:14.00 | Aria | Okay, for the record, I have a T-mobile locked up and stupid T509. |
| 22:14.01 | SpeedEvil | Or software you can show to a shop buyer and have them say 'yes, I'd like ten thousand' |
| 22:14.02 | Aria | So yeah. |
| 22:14.07 | Aria | I have low expectations of retail. |
| 22:14.26 | noidd | heading to a show - have comedy to produce |
| 22:14.37 | SpeedEvil | I'm getting less excited with some of the GTA02 revelations. |
| 22:14.46 | Aria | Oh? |
| 22:14.47 | SpeedEvil | The video accelerator, for example. |
| 22:14.53 | noidd | Dunno how many of you guys have seen the Wierd Al Yankovitch film "UHF" |
| 22:14.54 | SpeedEvil | The current one can't do audio. |
| 22:15.09 | noidd | but I just started my own TV show on my local cable network. |
| 22:15.15 | SpeedEvil | Which means that you've got to have the CPU on all the time in high power mode to decode the audio - pretty much. |
| 22:15.20 | noidd | http://www.puppetaccess.com/ if you want to see episode 1. |
| 22:15.24 | noidd | Go on, you know you want to :-) |
| 22:15.29 | noidd | later. |
| 22:15.37 | SpeedEvil | Which means there are sharply limited gains as to how much power it can save. |
| 22:16.24 | tessier_ | So openmoko has wifi and gps? That's so gonna rock. When it gets a camera it will be even better |
| 22:16.39 | SpeedEvil | In the next version, the Neo does. |
| 22:16.48 | SpeedEvil | Openmoko is the OS. |
| 22:16.50 | tessier_ | I want to be able to snap a pic of a place like a restaurant I am passing by, have the lat/long saved, file it under "food" |
| 22:16.51 | SpeedEvil | The neo has no wifi |
| 22:17.10 | Aria | tessier_: Moko, the platform, supports it. GTA01, the developer hardware, does not have WiFi; The GTA02, the retail hardware, will. |
| 22:17.18 | SpeedEvil | The current version to be relased in a few days |
| 22:17.23 | tessier_ | I am always seeing places I want to remember to come back to and then forgetting them |
| 22:17.35 | *** join/#openmoko pigpen (n=mark@fw.seamans.cc) |
| 22:17.37 | tessier_ | SpeedEvil: The developer hardware with no wifi will be released on the 9th? I see. |
| 22:17.54 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 22:17.54 | tessier_ | I'll still get one. Can't wait to swap out my proprietary POS which won't even use its stupid net access to backup my data to my website via webdav. |
| 22:17.59 | tessier_ | That is something I have wanted for years. |
| 22:18.14 | tessier_ | My phone is connected to a data network 24/7. WHY do I always have to lose my stuff when I change phones? |
| 22:18.25 | tessier_ | Or deal with their proprietary connectors/expensive PC interface kit, etc. |
| 22:18.29 | tessier_ | Which won't work on Linux surely. |
| 22:18.30 | Aria | ++ |
| 22:18.30 | tessier_ | blah |
| 22:18.42 | Aria | Same here. S'why I'm buying a kit and working to make it work right. |
| 22:18.46 | SpeedEvil | More importantly. In some ways. |
| 22:18.57 | SpeedEvil | You don't have to pick a phone for the software it has anymore. |
| 22:18.59 | tessier_ | And I sure hope the project will standardize on a standard power/charger/data connector for the next 10 years. |
| 22:19.02 | SpeedEvil | At leaset in principle. |
| 22:19.19 | tessier_ | I'm sick of buying a new car charger/home charger with every new phone and throwing the whole lot in the landfill in two years time. |
| 22:19.21 | tessier_ | Or sooner. |
| 22:19.21 | SpeedEvil | USB pretty much works for that. |
| 22:19.26 | SpeedEvil | TYhough not for a dock. |
| 22:19.27 | tessier_ | Awesome |
| 22:20.16 | SpeedEvil | Dock connectors are hard. |
| 22:20.24 | SpeedEvil | To do well. |
| 22:20.47 | Aria | I still say two big cone shapes to guide something down and a USB plug at the bottom would work. |
| 22:21.14 | SpeedEvil | You ideally want it to be sloppy to take misalignment, robust - to take the user slamming the phone down into them several thousand times, have good connections so data transfer can be rapid, be corrosion resistant, ... |
| 22:21.54 | SpeedEvil | Aria: it's not that simple - the USB plug chosen in this case - you pretty much need +-0.5mm and +-5 degrees to get it plugged in without damage. |
| 22:22.00 | SpeedEvil | That's quite hard to achieve. |
| 22:22.42 | Aria | Yeah. I've seen laptop docking connectors that do that similarly, though. I thought it was clever. I'd love to play with designs in my copious free time though |
| 22:23.09 | SpeedEvil | You need some fixture in addition to grab the sides of the phone and stop it hitting the connector misaligned |
| 22:23.14 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: blame SMedia, they don't have what we want :/ |
| 22:23.19 | mickeyl | the 3365 can do audio, but not vga |
| 22:23.22 | mickeyl | sigh |
| 22:23.32 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: yeah - I'm not saying that there is a good solution. |
| 22:24.11 | SpeedEvil | Though I've idly been wondering about a DSP. |
| 22:24.27 | mickeyl | we'd love to get a DSP in there. |
| 22:24.32 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 22:24.33 | mickeyl | but it has to be open. |
| 22:24.49 | mickeyl | and that's a showstopper for now. |
| 22:25.17 | mickeyl | the deal is |
| 22:25.20 | mickeyl | let us sell quantities |
| 22:25.29 | mickeyl | and then we can request what we want from the chip vendors |
| 22:25.30 | mickeyl | :D |
| 22:25.37 | mickeyl | i.e. 3365/VGA |
| 22:25.44 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - go and ask for a hundred thousand or a million, and things change. |
| 22:26.01 | mickeyl | right |
| 22:26.24 | SpeedEvil | Is the 3365 QVGA, or no video? |
| 22:26.39 | mickeyl | qvga |
| 22:26.52 | mickeyl | see http://www.smediatech.com/product3370.htm |
| 22:26.57 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 22:26.57 | mickeyl | 3362 is the only vga one |
| 22:27.01 | mickeyl | don't ask me why :D |
| 22:27.08 | SpeedEvil | Which would be fine for video, but it'd mean you'd have to drop the interface... |
| 22:27.18 | SpeedEvil | Trading off embedded memory for gate area prolly |
| 22:27.42 | SpeedEvil | Drop the use of it for the interface at high res that is |
| 22:29.08 | SpeedEvil | If large FPGA were cheap, but... |
| 22:30.53 | empty_mind | hey mickeyl |
| 22:31.02 | mickeyl | yo empty_mind |
| 22:31.19 | empty_mind | mickeyl: you said about 2 weeks ago that openmoko is going to revise tis software strategy. ANy news on that |
| 22:31.20 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@200-193-152-9.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 22:31.21 | woglinde | re coredump |
| 22:31.33 | CoreDump|home | yo |
| 22:33.22 | mickeyl | empty_mind: not yet. it is closely tied to the FIC-internal restructuration which I'm not allowed to say anything (not that I know anyway ;). We're still in transition state and after GUADEC I will release an OpenMoko software platform roadmap paper. |
| 22:33.42 | SpeedEvil | Can you comment more about the shipping plans? |
| 22:33.53 | empty_mind | mickeyl: cool |
| 22:33.55 | SpeedEvil | Is it basically going to be solely from one depot for this? |
| 22:34.02 | SpeedEvil | this round |
| 22:34.04 | mickeyl | SpeedEvil: for gta01, yes. |
| 22:34.24 | mickeyl | it will be mainly a manual process. |
| 22:34.39 | Elrond | Huh? |
| 22:34.45 | empty_mind | any information on which payment options will be accepted ? |
| 22:35.05 | SpeedEvil | I hope paypal is an option. |
| 22:35.23 | mickeyl | for gta02 it will be more automated and iirc through secondary distributors. but don't quote me on that. i tried to stay out of all the e-commerce odysee |
| 22:35.39 | Elrond | :) |
| 22:35.52 | *** join/#openmoko hugh_ (n=hugh@wifi-68.barnhard.net) |
| 22:35.58 | empty_mind | i hope paypal is not the only option |
| 22:36.25 | guaqua | what's wrong with paypal? |
| 22:36.35 | empty_mind | my account at paypal is stuck |
| 22:36.50 | empty_mind | and i have pending payments with openpcd.org |
| 22:37.04 | empty_mind | man what milo will be thinking about me |
| 22:37.24 | SpeedEvil | When paypal works - all is fine. |
| 22:37.39 | SpeedEvil | When it doesn't, they can do arbitrary things without adequate communication. |
| 22:37.42 | empty_mind | if openmoko gives paypal as only option then i will miss he device |
| 22:38.06 | woglinde | empty_mind I think they will take credit cards too |
| 22:38.14 | empty_mind | lets hope |
| 22:38.29 | Aria | I would hope so. |
| 22:38.47 | woglinde | only paypal didnt make much sense |
| 22:39.00 | woglinde | it would close out many people |
| 22:39.15 | empty_mind | well go to www.openpcd.org , only paypal option |
| 22:39.16 | SpeedEvil | They do do a nice canned 'store' |
| 22:40.05 | empty_mind | it ight be a stupid question to ask in this channel. But anyone worked on qt apps for desktop ? |
| 22:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko gresh (n=christop@Me534.m.pppool.de) |
| 22:40.36 | guaqua | i've done something small with pyqt and qt4 |
| 22:41.09 | __brandon__ | hey guys, i was wondering if the bluetooth would be able to be used w/ a pair of bluetooth headphones to play music w/? is there a pair fo specific headphones that I should get or is it more complicated than that? |
| 22:41.15 | SpeedEvil | mickeyl: I assume the microSD can't be gotten to via the debug connectors SPI bus? |
| 22:41.24 | SpeedEvil | __brandon__: software not written yet |
| 22:41.29 | guaqua | __brandon__: yes it can be used |
| 22:41.37 | empty_mind | well i need to write a qt app which will require user to autehnticate before accessing the main window. I am wondering how to do this for a desktop app |
| 22:41.58 | guaqua | use a database backend to authenticate |
| 22:42.09 | SpeedEvil | __brandon__: you can do it like you would on any bluetooth linux machine, but there isn't a nice app. |
| 22:42.10 | Aria | More specifically on __brandon__'s question, A2DP? |
| 22:42.20 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 22:42.23 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: yet ;) |
| 22:42.33 | SpeedEvil | Yet, of course. |
| 22:42.41 | SpeedEvil | We need a 'who's working on what' wiki page. |
| 22:42.42 | Aria | Woot. |
| 22:42.44 | __brandon__ | endless possibilities |
| 22:42.55 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:43.41 | *** join/#openmoko khester (n=khester@c-24-4-236-98.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:43.53 | SpeedEvil | On a slightly related topic. Anyone know of any SDIO bluetooth adaptors supported under linux? |
| 22:43.55 | __brandon__ | i'll have to do more research on that |
| 22:44.32 | Elrond | mickeyl - I hope some reviewing part will be in the new software plan. |
| 22:45.59 | woglinde | sppeedevil hm what device do you have?(not that I know any bt sdio cards) |
| 22:46.42 | Aria | __brandon__: I've a Jabra BT620 headset, with the headphones using A2DP. I did make 'em peep, but nothing more since the software's still crap. It's not far from working, but it's still work in progress. |
| 22:47.07 | __brandon__ | awesome |
| 22:47.33 | __brandon__ | i'll be getting the developer release here in a few days, is there a place you have that code to peek at? |
| 22:47.33 | Aria | So that said, that only on the neo instead of my laptop ;-) |
| 22:47.46 | Aria | Oh, it's just the stock A2DP stuff |
| 22:47.52 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: nothing - I'm wondering about purchasing somethign to enable my phone to work over BT when I pull the BT USB card. Having said that - 50 quid for a SDIO BT adaptor!!! |
| 22:47.55 | Aria | Alsa plugin bits and all that |
| 22:47.59 | mickeyl | Elrond: in what way? |
| 22:48.00 | __brandon__ | neat... never messes w/ bluetoooth before on linux |
| 22:48.06 | Aria | It's messy but it works |
| 22:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko jessta (n=jessta@203-214-4-167.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:48.48 | __brandon__ | s/messes/messed/ |
| 22:49.18 | Elrond | mickeyl - I don't know for sure. I have never done this in a bigger project. In the small projects I'm working in, people review the commits of each other very deeply and comment on them via irc. ;-) Which then helps to make the software lots better. |
| 22:49.34 | *** join/#openmoko galexande (n=greg@shed.goonies.be) |
| 22:49.54 | woglinde | brandon search after bluez which is the linux bt stack and which is opensource |
| 22:51.45 | mickeyl | Elrond: i see. let me tell you this: Previously, the platform has been written by 30% guys who know about open source and by 70% who don't. This is one of the reasons for the mess of the current platform. The ongoing restructuration is to make sure this will never happen again. Thanks to FIC we will change participants to >= 90% of people who understand how open source works. |
| 22:52.07 | mickeyl | and this is my last sentence today. i'm sleepy :) |
| 22:52.09 | mickeyl | g'night folks |
| 22:53.39 | SpeedEvil | Night |
| 22:54.39 | Elrond | Good night mickey|zzZZzz :) |
| 22:54.55 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 22:55.02 | daMaestro | is it the 9th yet? |
| 22:55.06 | daMaestro | lol |
| 22:55.13 | aevin | ;-) |
| 22:55.25 | __brandon__ | woglinde: thanks! I will be reading more on this. I have to catch a plane in 1/2 hr, maybe i'll download some docs to my a780 and read on the plane :) |
| 22:56.33 | woglinde | brandon hehe your a780 runs linux |
| 22:56.46 | __brandon__ | why do you think i own it :) |
| 22:57.03 | khester | hi ya'll. i'm a bit of an embedded kernel geek who also likes to do stuff with gpses (paragliding). i'll be buying a neo on the 9th, but i figured I'd get experience with the existing OE/openmoko by fixing a bug or two. Looking at bug 109, it seems easy-cheezy and no one is assigned to it yet. However, when I downloaded the openmoko source I don't see agpsd anywhere to be found. |
| 22:57.03 | woglinde | *g* but than you dont know about bluez |
| 22:57.15 | khester | Do any of you know where I would find this fork og gpsd? |
| 22:57.22 | khester | oops of not og |
| 22:57.24 | khester | ;-) |
| 22:58.07 | *** join/#openmoko gresh_ (n=christop@Mecf5.m.pppool.de) |
| 22:58.22 | woglinde | khester hm did you look at -> http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gpsd |
| 22:58.48 | khester | yep - but it doesn't say a whole lot |
| 22:58.49 | __brandon__ | i've never had an excuse to learn it. i'm using this as my excuse :) |
| 22:59.06 | khester | the bug makes reference to a non standard daemon called agpsd that has a bug |
| 22:59.24 | khester | apparently it doesn't have the dbus support and i figured that should be an easy way to get started |
| 23:00.29 | khester | the link on the gpsd page for the datasheet on hamerhead also appears to be broken |
| 23:00.30 | aevin | isn't the (a)gpsd supposed to be a proprietary blob? |
| 23:00.41 | aevin | "supposed" |
| 23:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko gresh__ (n=christop@Mecf5.m.pppool.de) |
| 23:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0B3A1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:01.50 | SpeedEvil | aevin: There is a 'gpgll' program that connects tot he GPS and spits out NMEA |
| 23:02.09 | *** join/#openmoko guest__ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 23:03.05 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - gllin I thought? |
| 23:03.07 | aevin | SpeedEvil: okay. i'm just trying to help khester figuring out the missing source. |
| 23:03.17 | SpeedEvil | Missing source for what? |
| 23:03.20 | SpeedEvil | It's not open source |
| 23:03.26 | aevin | exactly |
| 23:03.29 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508DBB04.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:03.34 | khester | speedevil - hmm - i think i'll just ask the fellow who wrote the bug what is up |
| 23:03.35 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: err - yes. |
| 23:03.41 | khester | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=109 |
| 23:04.20 | woglinde | khester here is the project of some people from here they are working an rev engeneering the protocol |
| 23:04.23 | woglinde | http://projects.linuxtogo.org/projects/sphyrna/ |
| 23:04.51 | SpeedEvil | There are no sources. |
| 23:04.54 | khester | woglinde - cool link thx |
| 23:05.00 | SpeedEvil | For agpsd |
| 23:06.37 | khester | woglinde - do you know anything about these folks project? just curious if it is kinda 'real.' I'll send an email to the developer as well |
| 23:06.54 | woglinde | khester one is ph5 |
| 23:07.11 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: yes - it's real. |
| 23:07.18 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: it's very prototypical though |
| 23:07.33 | woglinde | speedevil check your tabkey |
| 23:07.37 | khester | ok - cool beans - i'll send em a note to see if i can help out |
| 23:07.39 | woglinde | you meant khester |
| 23:07.41 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: it's at the poke registers on the hammerhead chip, and with the aid of a dartboard, guess what it may be. |
| 23:07.54 | woglinde | *g* |
| 23:08.44 | SpeedEvil | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead/Protocol |
| 23:08.48 | guaqua | woglinde: you are after all the first one in the alphabet ;) |
| 23:08.57 | woglinde | damnit |
| 23:09.03 | woglinde | *g* |
| 23:10.50 | *** join/#openmoko overseer (n=overseer@dsl092-044-123.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 23:11.49 | Elrond | khester - Just poke ph5 and me on irc. ;-) |
| 23:13.21 | guaqua | irc is so much faster in most cases |
| 23:13.26 | khester | se: great link! |
| 23:13.44 | Elrond | guaqua - and less spammy :) |
| 23:13.54 | woglinde | sorry elrond I forgot you there with hammerhead too |
| 23:14.01 | SpeedEvil | khester: reading the GPS tutorials would probably be a good startpoint |
| 23:14.23 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, are you speeddevel on the wiki? |
| 23:14.28 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:14.45 | daMaestro | i'm very interested in how we can chroot the binary module for the gps |
| 23:14.54 | SpeedEvil | Trivially, prolly |
| 23:15.04 | SpeedEvil | copy any libs it needs in. |
| 23:15.10 | SpeedEvil | Add a node for the tty device |
| 23:15.12 | daMaestro | hmm and it is speedevil on the wiki.. sorry |
| 23:15.15 | SpeedEvil | jobs done |
| 23:15.33 | daMaestro | SpeedEvil, i mean as a standard, documented feature? |
| 23:16.03 | SpeedEvil | Oh. I'd imagine a patch will emerge pretty soon. |
| 23:16.25 | daMaestro | i'm most likely going to just make the gps stuff ondemand for only specific applications... like google maps |
| 23:16.30 | SpeedEvil | running it chrooted as an unprivd user. |
| 23:16.39 | daMaestro | but basically... what do you lose? E911? |
| 23:16.46 | SpeedEvil | Err - no |
| 23:16.55 | SpeedEvil | E911 is not in there. |
| 23:17.04 | SpeedEvil | It's not in fact implemented AIUI. |
| 23:17.24 | SpeedEvil | The GPS program supplied _only_ does GPS. |
| 23:17.30 | SpeedEvil | And spits out NMEA sentances. |
| 23:17.34 | SpeedEvil | It does nothing else. |
| 23:17.46 | daMaestro | ideal |
| 23:18.09 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe29dd00-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 23:20.23 | CM | noidd: Stanley Spadowski's Clubhouse! :D |
| 23:20.46 | *** join/#openmoko tessier (n=treed@kernel-panic/sex-machines) |
| 23:21.44 | galexande | where is libgpsd documented? |
| 23:22.27 | SpeedEvil | gpsd.sourceforge.org IIRC |
| 23:23.38 | galexande | thanks |
| 23:25.26 | galexande | nah that's a different gps project |
| 23:26.52 | SpeedEvil | What are you looking for? |
| 23:29.14 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:35.34 | daMaestro | hmmmm |
| 23:35.46 | daMaestro | well i might be going with att until gta02 |
| 23:35.56 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 23:37.08 | daMaestro | they offer $0.01/KB for GPRS/EDGE/3G on prepay accounts |
| 23:38.01 | galexande | yeah maestro, that's what i was eyeballing too. $20 unlimited. |
| 23:38.08 | galexande | if you get the $30/mo prepaid (crazy) |
| 23:38.20 | daMaestro | grrrr... is it WAP only though |
| 23:38.27 | daMaestro | i can't find one way or another |
| 23:40.59 | Elrond | Good night people. |
| 23:41.34 | SpeedEvil | Night |
| 23:42.12 | woglinde | good night too |
| 23:42.15 | woglinde | now sleep |
| 23:42.18 | Elrond | Thanks. :-) |
| 23:44.02 | daMaestro | galexande, have you taken a look at: http://www.t-mobile.com/shop/plans/detail.aspx?tp=tb1&id=2e312055-b597-4f27-9737-4f514ea27cc7 ? |
| 23:44.25 | daMaestro | hmm... but that is still more then $20 unlimited.. grrr |
| 23:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:50.29 | daMaestro | galexande, link? |
| 23:50.45 | daMaestro | galexande, the only data plans i am finding from att are like $100/month |
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