| 00:00.07 | Stephmw | yeah, custom images are my interest too |
| 00:00.20 | robster | daMaestro: the problem is the memory allocator |
| 00:00.39 | schonstal | python++ |
| 00:01.12 | daMaestro | robster, thanks for the details, i'm going to do this stuff with my qemu device ;-) |
| 00:01.23 | daMaestro | my real device will only get the love of the community |
| 00:01.34 | daMaestro | i'm going to love my virtual device and try to commit bits for review |
| 00:01.48 | robster | i'm really not sure why people are not keen on C |
| 00:01.56 | daMaestro | C is great |
| 00:02.07 | summatusmentis | I prefer C++, cleaner |
| 00:02.11 | daMaestro | the point, is it will be fun to hack around with python on such limited hardware |
| 00:02.32 | Stephmw | robster: it's just too damn easy to fuck up in C |
| 00:02.33 | *** join/#openmoko vclark (n=vclark@c-24-9-155-147.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 00:02.52 | schonstal | C is nice, and it's fast, but it's not as easy to write |
| 00:03.06 | daMaestro | no, but that is why it's nice and fast |
| 00:03.06 | daMaestro | lol |
| 00:03.11 | robster | Stephmw: how? |
| 00:03.18 | daMaestro | not everyone and their "sams learn in 5 minutes" can write usable code |
| 00:03.30 | schonstal | tru |
| 00:03.55 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 00:04.02 | Stephmw | robster: because even with linting, purify/etc and great QA, it's still fairly easy to make mistakes |
| 00:04.33 | Stephmw | robster: and the place I work in we have a boatload of QA |
| 00:04.47 | Stephmw | robster: it just removes the simple fuckups :) |
| 00:04.48 | zecke | Stephmw: hehe, purify... this nice rational/IBM software |
| 00:05.02 | Stephmw | robster: whatever is left is a headache to deal with |
| 00:05.15 | Stephmw | zecke: it's a pretty gui :) |
| 00:05.46 | Stephmw | zecke: we use the tools mendated by the company in the end... and it sure isn't OSS |
| 00:05.52 | Stephmw | *mandated |
| 00:06.24 | daMaestro | well, they mandate them because they paid for them.. it doesn't mean there isn't something better ;-) |
| 00:06.25 | Stephmw | one day I should run sloccount on the codebase |
| 00:06.34 | zecke | it makes sense to use such a software, I prefer valgrind |
| 00:06.57 | Stephmw | daMaestro: it's also tightly integrated into all our processes, almost painless (if slow) to use |
| 00:07.36 | daMaestro | Stephmw, i just take every chance i get to stab at using software because you had to pay for it |
| 00:07.36 | daMaestro | lol |
| 00:08.12 | Stephmw | only takes 45mins these days |
| 00:09.03 | daMaestro | ok.. i'll ask more direct questions.. and hope some random hacker is listening |
| 00:09.11 | daMaestro | has anyone been able to build 2352? |
| 00:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-252-059.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 00:09.58 | daMaestro | it fails to build for me on x86 but builds on x86_64, however creating the NAND just runs away |
| 00:10.56 | daMaestro | 2344 built on x86 also, but building the NAND just ran away |
| 00:11.02 | daMaestro | or flashing it.. i should say |
| 00:11.48 | Stephmw | daMaestro: nah, I completely understand your stabs - I make them internally too. Corporations just have insanely irrational fears... that and it's much easier to authorise purchases rather than in-house development time... |
| 00:11.58 | Stephmw | ... but I'll stop moaning, 6 weeks and I'll be a free FREEE man |
| 00:15.34 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 00:17.27 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@85-211-239-240.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:20.39 | Stephmw | g'night! |
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| 00:23.16 | summatusmentis | anyone on at&t in the US? |
| 00:23.35 | Q_Continuum | I am |
| 00:23.44 | Q_Continuum | don't use data though |
| 00:23.52 | Q_Continuum | too expensive |
| 00:24.05 | summatusmentis | Q_Continuum: oh, ok |
| 00:24.22 | daMaestro | yeah, i might go data only and then try doing tunneled voip |
| 00:24.23 | summatusmentis | I'm wondering about the MEdia bundles |
| 00:24.36 | daMaestro | but i will end up doing two prepay plans to start... ;-) |
| 00:24.37 | schonstal | I guess I am now; I had cingular but I think they're switching |
| 00:24.43 | Q_Continuum | they did |
| 00:24.56 | daMaestro | one, a real number.. and then another data plan I know i am going to be banned from |
| 00:24.57 | daMaestro | lol |
| 00:25.00 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: why two prepay? |
| 00:25.02 | schonstal | But I also don't have data, it's really expensive |
| 00:25.03 | summatusmentis | oh |
| 00:25.11 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, most likely try att and tmobile |
| 00:25.25 | summatusmentis | daMaestro: yeah |
| 00:25.30 | schonstal | Yeah, I also went AT&T -> Cingular -> AT&T |
| 00:25.55 | summatusmentis | at&t just bought one of the companies that provides service where I'll be going to college, so I might be able to get 'native' coverage out there |
| 00:27.17 | daMaestro | is anyone using the qemu build with gcc> 3.4.4 |
| 00:27.28 | daMaestro | err s/>// |
| 00:28.20 | schonstal | I'm using 4.1.1, but I haven't gotten it to build yet |
| 00:28.45 | schonstal | Oh |
| 00:28.57 | daMaestro | it is known not working with 4.x |
| 00:29.11 | daMaestro | at least that is what i take from http://wiki.openmoko.org/Qemu |
| 00:29.40 | daMaestro | schonstal, do you do any packaging? (taking into account you are active with OLPC) |
| 00:30.09 | daMaestro | afaik, OLPC uses rpm (from observations with regards to yum on OLPC and the fact revisor is being looked at) |
| 00:30.25 | schonstal | I haven't built any rpms, no |
| 00:30.30 | daMaestro | darn |
| 00:30.46 | daMaestro | ok, i'm trying to square away what i have going on.. but yeah, afaik: gcc 4.x wont work |
| 00:31.02 | schonstal | Activities have their own bundle format, but I wasn't the one who made the bundle |
| 00:31.04 | daMaestro | oops, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu |
| 00:31.20 | daMaestro | schonstal, yea.. activities are brilliant |
| 00:33.04 | schonstal | Oh, it does say GCC 3.x is required :/ |
| 00:33.14 | schonstal | I guess I'll try that next |
| 00:35.18 | summatusmentis | any of you at&t users(I know not data) do you know if the MEdia bundles are wap? |
| 00:35.28 | daMaestro | WAP ... yuck |
| 00:35.35 | daMaestro | WAP-- |
| 00:41.54 | *** join/#openmoko veiset (n=veiset@route66.mikke-mus.com) |
| 00:45.25 | daMaestro | ooops.. and i'm using gcc 3.4.6 |
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| 01:00.11 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: is it patched with something like selinux maybe? |
| 01:00.25 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: any error messages? |
| 01:00.36 | balrog-kun | how does the flashing fail? |
| 01:00.42 | daMaestro | it might be selinux |
| 01:00.48 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, it times out... |
| 01:00.50 | daMaestro | thus never finishes |
| 01:01.00 | daMaestro | qemu just runs and runs and runs |
| 01:01.14 | balrog-kun | hmm, i had one more report of qemu stalling, i think, without even starting the emulation |
| 01:01.16 | daMaestro | i left it for ~30 minutes on a 3.2GHz dual core x86_64 |
| 01:01.22 | balrog-kun | but i'm unable to reproduce it |
| 01:01.31 | balrog-kun | to even see a backtrace or anything |
| 01:01.58 | balrog-kun | it was not qemu-neo1973 specific |
| 01:02.00 | daMaestro | well i have it built.. and it "runs" but when i get to the point where i need to flash the virtual NAND.. it seems to just not work |
| 01:02.25 | balrog-kun | yeah, that's where it should emulate the neo1973 for the first time |
| 01:02.47 | daMaestro | is there any way i can test that the qemu "stuff" is working? |
| 01:02.57 | balrog-kun | and a person reported that it stalls somewhere, but i have no machines on which this could be reproduced |
| 01:03.22 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: hmmm does simply running arm-softmmu/qemu-system-arm print the help message and exit? |
| 01:03.34 | balrog-kun | that would be the most basic functionality :p |
| 01:03.37 | daMaestro | well.... i've package stuff |
| 01:03.41 | daMaestro | i'll test if it works |
| 01:03.51 | balrog-kun | ok |
| 01:04.02 | daMaestro | [jon@damaestro ~]$ qemu-neo1973-system-arm |
| 01:04.02 | daMaestro | QEMU PC emulator version 0.9.0, Copyright (c) 2003-2007 Fabrice Bellard |
| 01:04.02 | daMaestro | usage: qemu [options] [disk_image] |
| 01:04.09 | daMaestro | [...] etc |
| 01:04.12 | balrog-kun | you that looks okay |
| 01:04.43 | daMaestro | if you have a serious interest in this.. i can get you access to the build machine |
| 01:05.11 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 01:05.34 | balrog-kun | does qemu-system-arm -kernel /bin/ls do something sensible or just stall too? |
| 01:05.46 | balrog-kun | possibly with -M neo |
| 01:06.04 | daMaestro | testing |
| 01:06.48 | daMaestro | jon@damaestro ~]$ qemu-neo1973-system-arm -M neo -kernel /bin/ls |
| 01:06.48 | daMaestro | Could not initialize SDL - exiting |
| 01:06.56 | daMaestro | i guess i need to do x11 forwarding |
| 01:06.59 | daMaestro | give me a moment |
| 01:07.36 | balrog-kun | ah, yes, unless you pass -nographic too |
| 01:07.41 | summatusmentis | I have never been able to get x11 forwarding up |
| 01:07.52 | balrog-kun | summatusmentis: with qemu or generally? |
| 01:08.01 | daMaestro | This platform requires 134221824 bytes of memory |
| 01:08.11 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: oops, right "-m 130" |
| 01:08.19 | summatusmentis | balrog-kun: generally |
| 01:08.26 | daMaestro | Segmentation fault |
| 01:08.39 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: that's interesting |
| 01:08.41 | summatusmentis | never tried qemu, and hearing all the issues people are having, i don't think I"m gonna try soon |
| 01:08.51 | daMaestro | summatusmentis, ssh -Y |
| 01:09.00 | daMaestro | some use ssh -X |
| 01:09.09 | daMaestro | -X is more secure, but works less often |
| 01:09.17 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: ah did you use -nographic this time? |
| 01:09.24 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, yes |
| 01:09.31 | daMaestro | i don't need to... |
| 01:09.34 | daMaestro | i'm forwarding xll |
| 01:09.37 | daMaestro | x11* |
| 01:09.38 | balrog-kun | can you try without it, with some kind of Xserver? |
| 01:09.53 | daMaestro | doing so now |
| 01:09.55 | balrog-kun | SDL does deal very well with normal X forwarding for me |
| 01:10.18 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, seg fault again |
| 01:10.29 | bluelightning | is buildhost.openmoko.org down atm? |
| 01:10.37 | *** join/#openmoko wbx_ (n=wbx@xdsl-87-78-67-168.netcologne.de) |
| 01:10.46 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: ouch, do you have gdb handy, and an unstripped qemu? |
| 01:11.02 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, i could install it |
| 01:11.10 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, or i could just give you access ;-) |
| 01:11.36 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: is that machine running selinux? i'm wondering if that may have been the reson for the other person too |
| 01:11.45 | daMaestro | yes, i'm running selinux |
| 01:11.48 | balrog-kun | selinux generally doesn't allow SMC, and that's what qemu is about |
| 01:11.50 | daMaestro | i can set it to permissive |
| 01:12.06 | balrog-kun | but i don't know how it inflences the compiler, if at all |
| 01:12.06 | daMaestro | well.. f7 is KVM focused... and kvm works |
| 01:12.14 | daMaestro | oh, i build with mock |
| 01:12.17 | daMaestro | which is basically chroot building |
| 01:12.26 | balrog-kun | ah okay |
| 01:12.43 | balrog-kun | i'm not sure about KVM, i think it bypasses the SMC |
| 01:13.41 | daMaestro | do you want access to this machine? |
| 01:13.44 | daMaestro | i just need your ssh key |
| 01:13.50 | daMaestro | *pub key |
| 01:13.57 | balrog-kun | though i would expect selinux to print something like "permission denied, this attempt will be reported to x@y.z" rather then send a SIGSEGV |
| 01:14.24 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: well, yes, that would be interesting, give me a moment |
| 01:14.35 | balrog-kun | and appreciated, too |
| 01:14.39 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 01:14.58 | daMaestro | well.. i would love to get these packages done, so i can get the packages into fedora and start to recruit more devs |
| 01:15.31 | balrog-kun | can i paste it to you in /msg? |
| 01:15.48 | daMaestro | sure |
| 01:15.55 | daMaestro | $ sudo qemu-neo1973-system-arm -M neo -m 130 -kernel /bin/ls |
| 01:15.55 | daMaestro | Segmentation fault |
| 01:16.05 | daMaestro | with selinux permissive.. sooo.. i don't blame selinux |
| 01:16.12 | daMaestro | audit log looks clean too |
| 01:16.24 | balrog-kun | i don't have much idea about selinux |
| 01:18.01 | daMaestro | it's not getting in the way |
| 01:18.39 | balrog-kun | i'm in, thanks, i will checkout the SVN and try to build it |
| 01:18.46 | daMaestro | well |
| 01:18.49 | daMaestro | ok |
| 01:18.52 | daMaestro | you wont be able to |
| 01:19.19 | daMaestro | i build in chroots for a reason.. so i don't litter the system with random packages |
| 01:19.48 | daMaestro | /var/lib/mock/fedora-7-x86_64/result/*.log will have what i think you are looking for |
| 01:19.59 | daMaestro | along with the packages... |
| 01:20.16 | daMaestro | it is installed too, rpm -ql qemu-neo1973 |
| 01:20.18 | *** join/#openmoko Placid (n=placid@83.223.110.122) |
| 01:20.22 | balrog-kun | it shouldn't need to touch anything outside a single subdirectory |
| 01:20.23 | balrog-kun | ah okay |
| 01:20.38 | daMaestro | well.. none of the needed libs, etc are available on the main system |
| 01:20.54 | daMaestro | you are welcome to pull svn, though |
| 01:21.03 | daMaestro | compat-gcc is not installed so i doubt it will build |
| 01:22.46 | *** join/#openmoko _CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 01:23.31 | balrog-kun | what is compat-gcc for? |
| 01:24.57 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 01:30.47 | daMaestro | for gcc 3.4.6 |
| 01:30.52 | daMaestro | the system gcc is 4.1 |
| 01:31.09 | daMaestro | if it would help to have all the tools installed, i can install them |
| 01:31.19 | daMaestro | yum logs, so it's not like i can't remove them |
| 01:31.43 | daMaestro | or if you want access to mock... you'd have to log back in but i can give you access to mock.. so you can fire off chroot builds of the packages i have |
| 01:32.08 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, up to you |
| 01:32.17 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, i prefer chroot building (it is just so much better) |
| 01:32.26 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: the rpm with the debuginfo should be enough |
| 01:32.38 | balrog-kun | is there some easy way to only unpack the file from an rpm? |
| 01:32.43 | balrog-kun | *files |
| 01:32.51 | daMaestro | well.. they are installed |
| 01:33.04 | daMaestro | rpm -ql qemu-neo1973 shows you where they are |
| 01:33.14 | balrog-kun | ah, thanks |
| 01:33.19 | daMaestro | basically, you should be able to: openmoko-download |
| 01:33.24 | daMaestro | and then: openmoko-flash |
| 01:33.39 | daMaestro | openmoko-flash is what runs and runs and runs |
| 01:33.44 | daMaestro | and then eventually hits the timeout |
| 01:34.12 | balrog-kun | it's not the debuginfo one that's installed, is it? |
| 01:34.15 | daMaestro | do you want me to install qemu-neo1973-debuginfo? |
| 01:34.34 | balrog-kun | yes, that would be helpful |
| 01:34.57 | daMaestro | ok.. installed |
| 01:35.16 | balrog-kun | thanks |
| 01:35.18 | daMaestro | just let me know what other tools you might want installed |
| 01:35.25 | daMaestro | i am going to setup the rpmbuild root in your /home |
| 01:36.06 | daMaestro | ok.. in ~/rpmbuild is all that actually builds the rpm |
| 01:36.19 | daMaestro | including my patches to download.sh and flash.sh |
| 01:37.17 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@xdsl-87-78-110-34.netcologne.de) |
| 01:37.31 | balrog-kun | the debuginfo package doesn't have the qemu-neo1973-system-arm executable accoring to rpm -ql |
| 01:37.59 | daMaestro | i'm firing off a x86 build for you ... the results (which fail) will be in /var/lib/mock/fedora-7-i386/result/ |
| 01:38.01 | balrog-kun | i will scp an u-boot image over becaue the buildhost seems to be down at the moment |
| 01:38.07 | dilinger | have 4gb microsd cards been tested in the openmoko yet? |
| 01:38.16 | balrog-kun | thanks |
| 01:38.30 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, 2344 builds for x86... 2352 doesn't |
| 01:38.42 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, both 2344 and 2352 seem to build on x86_64 |
| 01:38.53 | Linux_Galore | hmm new video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5D6i6vLlhGA |
| 01:39.00 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: with that "bp" error? |
| 01:39.03 | balrog-kun | i test only on x86_64 locally |
| 01:39.16 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, qemu-neo1973-system-arm is provided by qemu-neo1973 |
| 01:39.34 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: yes, and this binary is stripped of debugging symbols |
| 01:39.38 | balrog-kun | *off |
| 01:39.48 | daMaestro | which should be installed with the debug info? |
| 01:40.09 | daMaestro | hmm it seems it didn't? |
| 01:40.38 | daMaestro | that might be a packaging error... i'll just install the build requires |
| 01:40.49 | balrog-kun | at least "file" says it's stripped :p |
| 01:41.30 | daMaestro | ok.. build deps are being installed now |
| 01:41.37 | daMaestro | so you can build from an svn checkout |
| 01:41.39 | daMaestro | however you want |
| 01:42.02 | daMaestro | unless you are skilled with rpm... then i can just give you mock access (skilled with rpm being spec design) |
| 01:42.10 | daMaestro | ok, build requires are installed |
| 01:42.23 | daMaestro | you should be able to checkout from svn and build |
| 01:43.01 | balrog-kun | i'm not at all skilled with rpm, i'm afraid |
| 01:43.02 | daMaestro | yeah.. buildhost seems down |
| 01:43.18 | balrog-kun | i think i last had redhat on my computer about 8 years ago :) |
| 01:43.19 | daMaestro | openmoko-download is failing |
| 01:43.39 | Basheri | rpm is lame |
| 01:43.53 | daMaestro | yeah yeah, how about #distro-wars for a while |
| 01:43.58 | Basheri | :DDD |
| 01:44.10 | daMaestro | this is #openmoko.. and i'm trying to enable our userbase to add dev effort ;-) |
| 01:44.50 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 01:45.19 | balrog-kun | btw. the other person who's qemu wasn't working was on Ubuntu |
| 01:45.41 | balrog-kun | ok, i scp'ed over an u-boot and a kernel for Neo |
| 01:46.20 | *** join/#openmoko wbx__ (n=wbx@xdsl-87-78-111-96.netcologne.de) |
| 01:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:48.22 | daMaestro | well.. building from svn checkout works |
| 01:48.30 | daMaestro | just prefix to your ~ |
| 01:51.18 | balrog-kun | i'm building :-) |
| 01:53.48 | balrog-kun | oh damn, this was so simple |
| 01:54.24 | balrog-kun | (that is, the segfault, i still not sure why it would stall at flashing) |
| 01:55.38 | daMaestro | so, is the segfault a real bug? (per checkout 2352? |
| 01:55.40 | daMaestro | ) |
| 01:56.23 | balrog-kun | yes, but it's exposed only when runing without -usb |
| 01:56.27 | *** part/#openmoko arw (i=familia@201.244.107.194) |
| 01:56.29 | daMaestro | ahh |
| 01:57.02 | Linux_Galore | got a sample of the GTA02 -> http://www.milradio.com/Pictures/WW11/BC-611.jpg |
| 01:57.09 | Linux_Galore | :-P |
| 01:57.17 | daMaestro | Linux_Galore, MAhahahahahwhhwhw |
| 01:57.20 | aevin | no way! |
| 01:57.20 | daMaestro | Linux_Galore, nice |
| 01:57.23 | aevin | that's GTA03! |
| 01:57.32 | daMaestro | that is hot.. |
| 01:57.36 | CoreDump|home | lol |
| 01:57.55 | daMaestro | you know.. the first question i got about the neo1973 was if the user could use ham waves for transit |
| 01:58.08 | CIA-17 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2353 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/neo1973.c: Don't try to attach a Bluetooth dongle with USB disabled globally. |
| 01:58.58 | daMaestro | i expect you should be able to |
| 01:59.00 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: that's how i imagine the 1973 phone, heh |
| 01:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 01:59.27 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, ok.. so i should checkout this fix.. and rebuild? |
| 01:59.46 | Linux_Galore | dont laugh I typed openmoko GTA02 into google images and thats what it gave me heh |
| 02:00.01 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: i will first try to reproduce the stall during flashing, unless you want to try anyway |
| 02:00.12 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: i wonder if it runs java games |
| 02:00.14 | daMaestro | you are welcome to reproduce the issue |
| 02:00.22 | daMaestro | it's not like we can't both work at the same time |
| 02:01.00 | Linux_Galore | balrog-kun: naw thats the russian hardened version of the openmoko heh |
| 02:01.32 | balrog-kun | heh |
| 02:01.45 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: that's a phone with which you could kill |
| 02:02.18 | aloril | (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: WebKit progress http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/webkit-progress.html |
| 02:02.18 | Linux_Galore | yeah, if you run out of ammo you can beat them to death with your phone |
| 02:02.50 | *** join/#openmoko idarwin (n=ian@69-17-146-104.kingkom.com) |
| 02:04.29 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: it didn't stall, it flashed the images ok |
| 02:04.54 | balrog-kun | it's diplaying the pretty openmoko logo and the boot menu too :) |
| 02:05.09 | daMaestro | hmmmmm |
| 02:05.28 | daMaestro | then will you look at what i have wrong with openmoko-flash? |
| 02:06.11 | balrog-kun | okay, where does it expect the downloaded files to reside? |
| 02:06.23 | daMaestro | pwd |
| 02:06.59 | daMaestro | ok, updating qemu-neo1973 to 2353 |
| 02:07.14 | balrog-kun | ah, this indeed locks up |
| 02:07.42 | daMaestro | ok, if you make what changes are needed, that would be sweet |
| 02:07.51 | daMaestro | i'll generate my patches again and build 2353-2 |
| 02:07.57 | daMaestro | 2353 was just updated |
| 02:08.12 | balrog-kun | ok, it works if u-boot.bin is present in the current directory |
| 02:08.22 | daMaestro | hmm is that hardcoded somewhere? |
| 02:08.30 | balrog-kun | this might have been not the best idea but it was supposed to be temporary |
| 02:08.41 | balrog-kun | yes, it is hardcoded, unfortunately |
| 02:08.45 | daMaestro | ahhhh |
| 02:08.54 | daMaestro | i tried to patch away all the nastyness |
| 02:08.55 | daMaestro | lol |
| 02:09.10 | balrog-kun | you've got one more nastiness to patch :) |
| 02:09.26 | balrog-kun | or you can use a wrapper script that cd's to the right directory, but that's uglier |
| 02:09.41 | daMaestro | ok, do you have a proposal? |
| 02:09.50 | balrog-kun | it's hardcoded in hw/neo1973.c |
| 02:10.18 | balrog-kun | you can rehardcode it to maybe /usr/share/something, but that's also slightly ugly |
| 02:10.35 | daMaestro | yeah, the goal is to not ship and of the stuff that openmoko-download does |
| 02:10.47 | daMaestro | just so i don't have to deal with pushing out updates ~daily |
| 02:11.39 | balrog-kun | if you change the path to be /usr/share/qemu-neo1973/u-boot.bin that should do it |
| 02:12.11 | balrog-kun | and make openmoko-flash produce an apropriate symlink (like the svn version does) |
| 02:12.46 | balrog-kun | or you want it to be runnable by non-root? |
| 02:13.13 | daMaestro | non-root would be great |
| 02:13.23 | daMaestro | that is why i switched to doing `pwd` stuff |
| 02:14.12 | daMaestro | so i just need to symlink u-boot? |
| 02:15.02 | balrog-kun | in current directory, yes |
| 02:15.35 | balrog-kun | i'm thinking that the option_rom global could be reused for pointing at the u-boot image |
| 02:16.27 | daMaestro | so.. just for now i'll symlink $uboot_image to u-boot.img |
| 02:17.07 | daMaestro | ln -sf $uboot_image u-boot.bin |
| 02:17.34 | balrog-kun | sorry for the long paste |
| 02:18.04 | daMaestro | sok |
| 02:18.15 | daMaestro | i prefer going upstream with changes like that |
| 02:18.20 | balrog-kun | ah okay |
| 02:19.02 | balrog-kun | i'm not sure, perhaps not now, but generally the u-boot.bin hardcoded name was going to be replaced with something |
| 02:19.20 | daMaestro | and thus, upstream ;-) |
| 02:19.32 | daMaestro | you all will find a good solution |
| 02:20.03 | balrog-kun | i guess we should do what the PC does, i.e there's a small BIOS image in /usr/share/qemu that's never updated, and this one is loaded at start |
| 02:20.45 | daMaestro | ahh stupid rsync eating bandwidth |
| 02:20.45 | balrog-kun | for neo this would be the lowlevel-foo file that's found on the buildhost |
| 02:20.52 | balrog-kun | it never changes and its task is loading the u-boot from the Flash, rather than passing an external u-boot everytime |
| 02:21.25 | daMaestro | anyone have any idea when buildhost is going to be back up? |
| 02:22.09 | daMaestro | does kernel need to be symlinked also? |
| 02:22.16 | daMaestro | i see that is what you have done |
| 02:22.31 | balrog-kun | no, although openmoko/flash.sh does that for convenience |
| 02:23.11 | daMaestro | yeah.. and i had patched that away |
| 02:23.12 | daMaestro | lol |
| 02:23.35 | balrog-kun | and this one wasn't my idea :p |
| 02:24.15 | balrog-kun | it was suggested by the MokoMakefile maker to make things easier |
| 02:26.07 | daMaestro | should i also add -usb to: qemu="qemu-neo1973-system-arm -M neo -m 130" ? |
| 02:26.25 | daMaestro | or will >2353 deal with no -usb? |
| 02:27.19 | daMaestro | ahh the emu() call adds it anyways |
| 02:28.33 | balrog-kun | yeah, that's why i never hit it |
| 02:29.57 | balrog-kun | basically without -usb the hardware configuration is different from that of a real Neo, because the real Neo always has USB disabled, that's why i thought i would attach the dongle anyway, except that arch code doesn't expose any USB host ports to connect the dongle to when this happens |
| 02:30.13 | balrog-kun | s/disabled/enabled/ |
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| 02:30.46 | SpeedEvil | apt: not when the CPU is in slow mode. |
| 02:30.53 | apt | SpeedEvil: okay |
| 02:31.15 | balrog-kun | :) |
| 02:32.09 | daMaestro | ok, any word on when buildhost will be back? so i can test everything? |
| 02:32.49 | balrog-kun | it's 4:35 AM at the buildhost's administrator's place |
| 02:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko Mortimus (n=mortimus@cpe-74-65-204-12.nyc.res.rr.com) |
| 02:34.05 | daMaestro | oops balrog-kun i ran my cleanup scripts |
| 02:34.23 | daMaestro | i just deleted what you have open (i didn't think to check to see if you were still logged in) |
| 02:34.25 | daMaestro | sorry |
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| 02:34.39 | balrog-kun | oops, i forgot i was on a remote computer heh |
| 02:34.57 | balrog-kun | well, i didn't have any useful changes |
| 02:35.06 | daMaestro | ok, good... sorry |
| 02:35.12 | balrog-kun | i logged out, you can remove the login |
| 02:35.12 | bonan | Where does the buildhost administrator live? |
| 02:35.19 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, will do |
| 02:35.26 | daMaestro | (the user stays.. i just remove the auth key) |
| 02:35.48 | bonan | (Just wondering since it's 4:35AM here too ;) |
| 02:36.16 | balrog-kun | bonan: afaik, in Germany, but don't take my word for it |
| 02:37.14 | bonan | Ah, okay |
| 02:40.44 | daMaestro | cool, well once i can get some images to test flashing with.. i think these packages might be off for review |
| 02:41.49 | daMaestro | ok, i'm off for dinner ... it's ~9pm here |
| 02:41.55 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, thanks much |
| 02:42.06 | balrog-kun | daMaestro: thanks, too |
| 02:42.09 | daMaestro | i'll be back in a little while |
| 02:42.24 | daMaestro | balrog-kun, i'm going to push openmoko in the #fedora world.. so umm... we need it yum'able |
| 02:42.26 | daMaestro | ;-) |
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| 03:53.22 | CIA-17 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2354 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-footer/ (ChangeLog src/taskmenu.c src/taskmenu.h): |
| 03:53.22 | CIA-17 | openmoko: * src/taskmenu.c (moko_window_filter),(moko_taskmenu_init): |
| 03:53.22 | CIA-17 | openmoko: * src/taskmenu.h: |
| 03:53.22 | CIA-17 | openmoko: Implement window_filter; taskmenu is now updated on changes |
| 03:56.48 | *** join/#openmoko darwin81 (n=juliosr@100.138.202.68.cfl.res.rr.com) |
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| 04:05.13 | ravan | is OE failing for anyone else with sh: ipkg-build: command not found |
| 04:18.32 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 04:25.58 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: New Oceans |
| 04:27.31 | ravan | i got the ipkg-build error with NOTE: package linux-libc-headers-2.6.18-r1: task do_package_write: failed |
| 04:40.43 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 04:49.50 | *** join/#openmoko cmgannon26 (n=cgannon@61-pool1.ras01.jfk01.dial.cogentco.com) |
| 04:50.41 | cmgannon26 | I just wanted to ask a quick question. Is the openmoko phone expected to be a stable enough release for daily use as of the July 9th launch? |
| 04:50.41 | aloril | cmgannon26: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 04:52.01 | *** join/#openmoko AntonTakk (n=mike@poolofdespair.net) |
| 04:53.30 | AntonTakk | would running openmoko under qemu give a reasonable environment to try building apps? |
| 04:53.30 | aloril | AntonTakk: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 04:56.12 | AntonTakk | buildhost.openmoko.org seems down, can anyone verify? |
| 05:00.35 | bluelightning | AntonTakk: yep, down for me also |
| 05:00.37 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
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| 05:06.38 | aloril | (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> [openmoko-announce] Re: New Oceans |
| 05:08.32 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
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| 05:19.03 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@222.190.111.98) |
| 05:19.28 | jackey | what is going on? |
| 05:19.50 | jackey | OpenMoko is a company inside FIC |
| 05:20.44 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 05:26.24 | raster | jackey: openmoko is its own company |
| 05:26.26 | raster | spun off |
| 05:26.32 | raster | owned by fic (i assume) |
| 05:26.37 | jackey | so? |
| 05:26.48 | jackey | lay off lots of people? |
| 05:27.00 | jackey | raster, where i can get neo advanced |
| 05:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 05:27.32 | jackey | i am writing email to Sean right now. |
| 05:28.05 | raster | jackey: dunno any details - see sean's "new oceans" email |
| 05:28.27 | *** join/#openmoko dav7 (i=x@unaffiliated/dav7) |
| 05:28.35 | jackey | will OpenMoko be able to mass production? |
| 05:28.40 | Linux_Galore | heh very funny, wonder of we can hire them for a openmoko add http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=aae_1183244227 |
| 05:29.31 | Linux_Galore | jackey: FIC the people making the openmoko already mass produce phones |
| 05:29.54 | ravan | where does bitbake store it's resume information? |
| 05:30.29 | jackey | Any way to get a debug board? |
| 05:30.35 | ravan | and other info like which packages are installed and which aren't |
| 05:30.54 | ravan | jackey: you can order it on july 9th from openmoko.com |
| 05:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-160-76.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 05:33.09 | jackey | i was on hold a project |
| 05:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155) |
| 05:33.36 | jackey | i am from mobile enterprise. would like to promote NEO |
| 05:34.11 | jackey | but, according to the "new oceans", I am thinking about drop this project. |
| 05:34.42 | jackey | OpenMoko inside FIC, sounds a little bit wried too me. |
| 05:36.03 | raster | where else would openmoko be then? |
| 05:36.07 | ravan | i think it's a good thing that they have a seperate company in the FIC group |
| 05:36.11 | raster | you would need funding to run such an operation |
| 05:36.17 | raster | makign phones isnt cheap or easy |
| 05:36.28 | raster | fic basically are no different tyo an "investor" |
| 05:36.30 | raster | to |
| 05:36.48 | raster | spinning it off as its own company is a great show of support and faith in the project |
| 05:38.09 | jackey | what is OpenMoko target at right now? |
| 05:38.21 | AntonTakk | raster: you might get asked this alot, but, have any idea if/how well e17 would run on a neo? |
| 05:38.26 | jackey | a product or just some hacking toy? Open a retail store for fun? |
| 05:39.49 | raster | AntonTakk: it should run ok. |
| 05:40.04 | raster | jackey: a product |
| 05:40.17 | raster | jackey: not vast quantities at the moment |
| 05:40.22 | raster | its just starting |
| 05:40.53 | jackey | using community to build a product? |
| 05:41.44 | raster | some parts are developed by openmoko |
| 05:41.49 | raster | others by community |
| 05:42.00 | raster | not any different to redhat, suse, ubuntu etc. |
| 05:42.14 | raster | the difference is that openmoko ALSO make hardware |
| 05:42.20 | raster | unlike redhat/ubuntu/suse etc. |
| 05:42.20 | jackey | come on, develop a product without a promised time. |
| 05:42.38 | raster | they do have a promised release date |
| 05:42.40 | *** join/#openmoko fastPrint (i=fastPrin@59-115-231-197.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 05:42.41 | raster | july 9th |
| 05:43.03 | hads | Why does this channel attract so many trolls. |
| 05:43.17 | jackey | i am not talk about BSP ready product. I am talking about real phone product. |
| 05:43.41 | SpeedEvil | There is a release date in october for that too. |
| 05:43.42 | raster | july 9 is a real phone |
| 05:43.46 | raster | not a developer board |
| 05:43.54 | SpeedEvil | For end users. |
| 05:44.03 | raster | the software may be primitive |
| 05:44.05 | madwoota | thats mass market |
| 05:44.09 | jackey | SpeedEvil, nice to meet you again. |
| 05:44.12 | raster | but its not a pcb with danglign wires etc. |
| 05:51.43 | jackey | I had a Neo BV4 |
| 05:51.50 | jackey | just do not have a debug board |
| 05:51.58 | jackey | the software stack on it is so buggy |
| 05:52.18 | jackey | won't make a call, SD slot broken and so on. |
| 05:53.11 | raster | hmmm |
| 05:53.13 | raster | sd card works |
| 05:53.20 | raster | maybe your unit wasn |
| 05:53.23 | raster | maybe your unit wasn't good |
| 05:53.25 | jackey | We are planning to order at least 5 Neo Advanced and 5 Neo basic |
| 05:53.27 | raster | or the card was dud? |
| 05:53.33 | raster | software is indeed buggy |
| 05:53.50 | raster | but that is a matter of time, effort and testing |
| 05:53.53 | jackey | the project time is critical for us. |
| 05:54.03 | raster | more concerned about its limited functionality and looks myself |
| 05:54.10 | jackey | I may have to drop this project, could be a big customer for openmoko, damn it |
| 05:54.11 | raster | because it looks .. well.. not so hot |
| 05:54.12 | raster | :) |
| 05:54.33 | raster | maybe you need to wait until its more mature? |
| 05:54.54 | jackey | i wrote an email to Sean for help. Ask him to deliver some NEO advanced to me before July 12th,2007 |
| 05:55.03 | jackey | hope he can help me. |
| 05:55.08 | raster | that would be possible |
| 05:55.28 | raster | 01's will be available july 9 |
| 05:55.57 | raster | http://www.openmoko.com/ |
| 05:56.00 | raster | has all the details |
| 05:56.21 | jackey | u do not get it right? I have a project evaluation schedule here, if we can not show a demo to our customer. There is no way to go. |
| 05:56.58 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: New Oceans |
| 05:57.12 | jackey | i just send him an email |
| 05:58.01 | raster | Starting July 9th, we will launch openmoko.com and start taking orders. We're going to have two configurations: |
| 05:58.06 | raster | योु ासकेद ्ोर ा दे्िनिते तिमे्रामे |
| 05:58.08 | raster | oops |
| 05:58.10 | jackey | Let me give you more credit here to let you believe me. |
| 05:58.13 | raster | you asked for adefinite timeframe |
| 05:58.31 | raster | i am wondering what else you need? |
| 05:58.39 | raster | you need al tyhe software finished and working by then too? |
| 05:58.42 | mmp | jackey: you are speaking about buggy software stack - yes, it is buggy, because is simply is _not complete_ yet - the time when it should be usable is time of official Nie1973 release for end users |
| 05:59.39 | kiney | counter |
| 05:59.40 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-30T13:10) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, a day 06:00:19 (8.250±1.0 days) (1657;242) |
| 06:00.19 | raster | the soiftware definitely wont be ready by then |
| 06:00.23 | raster | (july 9) |
| 06:00.31 | jackey | Honestly, I do not believe that community will be able to make a software stack ready. |
| 06:00.44 | raster | by july 9 - no. |
| 06:00.57 | mmp | I meant september release date :) |
| 06:01.06 | jackey | BSP ready is not that hard. I just want to let our engineer to promote the OpenMoko in enterpise way. |
| 06:01.12 | mmp | jackey: communitiy is highly motivated, and that's time when wonders happen:) |
| 06:01.58 | jackey | come on, make a real phone product is not just say it. Sorry about my honesty. |
| 06:02.03 | mmp | I'm not telling you to rely on wonders, though, these are just my opinions |
| 06:02.28 | raster | jackey: the phone hardware works. it has some kinks right now - the software needs work |
| 06:02.36 | raster | the problem is that they are BUILDING an OPEN platform |
| 06:02.38 | raster | it doesnt exist |
| 06:02.41 | raster | it has to be created |
| 06:02.54 | raster | other "phone software platforms" for linux are not open |
| 06:02.54 | jackey | yes, i am agree. |
| 06:03.05 | raster | or not compatible with standard desktop development |
| 06:03.14 | jackey | let me ask one question |
| 06:03.22 | raster | (you need to write everything in c++/qt for example for specialised windowing systems etc.) |
| 06:03.32 | jackey | will openmoko be able to have a real phone in Q2, 2008? |
| 06:03.43 | raster | ok first |
| 06:03.47 | raster | lets stand back |
| 06:03.51 | jackey | sure |
| 06:03.52 | raster | what do you mean by "real phone" |
| 06:04.00 | jackey | hardware and software |
| 06:04.00 | raster | so we know exactly what we are talking about :) |
| 06:04.11 | raster | by software - what do you mean? |
| 06:04.18 | jackey | and pass CA test or even Operator test |
| 06:05.03 | jackey | i mean a realy smartphone like Moto 2100 |
| 06:05.34 | raster | don't know |
| 06:05.40 | raster | most of the work to be done is in software |
| 06:05.48 | raster | and it depends how fussy you are in terms of usability |
| 06:05.49 | raster | quality |
| 06:05.51 | raster | etc. |
| 06:06.53 | raster | i don't work for fic or openmoko - so i can't give anything official beyond what i do know that is public knowledge |
| 06:07.12 | raster | and where i think, as a software engineer, it is right now and where it can/will go |
| 06:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 06:08.08 | raster | as an average consumer i would be disappointed with the neo right now |
| 06:08.15 | raster | as a developer i think its fantastic |
| 06:08.40 | ravan | raster: is that because it doesn't run e17 :P ? |
| 06:08.55 | raster | given enough time and resources it will improve |
| 06:08.59 | raster | ravan: of course! :) |
| 06:09.13 | raster | ravan: actually no - software will crash at the slightest provokation |
| 06:09.18 | raster | like just tapping the power button |
| 06:09.20 | AntonTakk | ravan: that was actually my intention for trying to get it running in qemu tonight |
| 06:09.29 | raster | visuals-wise its very rough and "barely functional" |
| 06:09.33 | jackey | let me ask my question in another way |
| 06:09.49 | jackey | How many peope in OpenMoko did a mobiel product before? |
| 06:10.01 | raster | it doesnt have anything remotely functional as an addressbook - cant do sms - haven't tried phone calls at all yet - but unsure what will happen there |
| 06:10.32 | raster | jackey: openmoko is being spun off from FIC |
| 06:10.46 | raster | its the old "mobile phone" division |
| 06:11.03 | raster | the current neo is a product that WAS going to be a windows mobile phone |
| 06:11.07 | jackey | each a product phone must pass at least 20k test cases. Who will do that? |
| 06:11.07 | raster | but now is linux |
| 06:11.17 | raster | before that fic has produced several models of mobile phone |
| 06:11.28 | ravan | i should probably ditch my project and try helping with the openmoko software |
| 06:11.57 | jackey | Ravan, I am trying to do the same thing. |
| 06:11.57 | ravan | i've been trying to get qtopia to work on the emulator |
| 06:12.33 | jackey | how is going? |
| 06:12.38 | jackey | ravan, that sounds my idea |
| 06:12.51 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 06:13.00 | jackey | r u trying to run 4.x? |
| 06:13.08 | ravan | jackey: yes. 4.3 |
| 06:13.14 | jackey | forget about it |
| 06:13.30 | jackey | qtopia 4.3 is heavy |
| 06:13.48 | raster | it isnt too hard to build a set of basic ui's to do what is needed |
| 06:13.57 | raster | the problem is building something that will last through multilpe models |
| 06:14.04 | raster | multiel generatiosn and different hardware setups |
| 06:14.10 | jackey | i am using "heavy" instead of "slow" |
| 06:14.13 | raster | and be able to be expanded in the future |
| 06:14.33 | raster | i am adding stuff to e17 toi make it more "mobile friendly" |
| 06:15.09 | madwoota | e17 ? isnt that a myth ? like duke nukem forever ? :) |
| 06:15.09 | jackey | u are still making toy not a product. |
| 06:15.21 | raster | madwoota: :-P |
| 06:15.31 | raster | jackey: how do u know that? |
| 06:15.47 | ravan | raster: any work for someone with no graphics programming experience? |
| 06:16.06 | raster | ravan: ummmmmmm |
| 06:16.09 | raster | gees |
| 06:16.11 | raster | thats a hard q |
| 06:16.15 | raster | as its all gui |
| 06:16.21 | jackey | that is a very good question |
| 06:16.22 | raster | but the gui is driven by code... |
| 06:16.39 | raster | u dont need to be a gui expert to work with it |
| 06:16.42 | raster | but it always helps |
| 06:16.48 | ravan | i have done some gui programming with qt and some in java |
| 06:16.50 | raster | i guess there is work |
| 06:16.52 | raster | actually |
| 06:16.52 | jackey | come on, mobile phone is all about user experience |
| 06:17.02 | raster | hooking battery module to use dbus's power management api |
| 06:17.41 | raster | fixing up some of the last touches on dbus hal support for removable de3vices |
| 06:17.41 | jackey | e17 is for desktop, without a nice easy UE/UI design, end user will not pick you for sure |
| 06:17.41 | raster | jackey: sorry. i will disagree with you there. |
| 06:17.46 | raster | i've been on this "linux for mobiles" bandwagon for years |
| 06:17.54 | raster | i've been preparing for it |
| 06:18.06 | raster | u dont think i have all the hooks and bits in e17 just waiting to be plugged in? |
| 06:18.07 | raster | :) |
| 06:18.13 | jackey | show me, then i believe you |
| 06:18.28 | mmp | jackey: lots of people have great experience with linux on handhelds/mobile devices |
| 06:18.29 | raster | i need to plug things IN |
| 06:18.36 | jackey | i use e17 on my Gentoo |
| 06:19.08 | jackey | i knew, Do u think that current Samsung chip is too weak? |
| 06:19.23 | raster | for fancy stuff - yes |
| 06:19.25 | raster | for basics |
| 06:19.26 | raster | no |
| 06:19.31 | raster | e17 runs on my n800 |
| 06:19.35 | raster | almsot the same cpu |
| 06:19.40 | raster | (266vs300mhz) |
| 06:19.41 | raster | same ram |
| 06:19.46 | raster | similar flash storage |
| 06:19.56 | raster | in fact i suspect the samsung might be better off |
| 06:19.56 | jackey | my experience with Neo Basic tell me that |
| 06:20.03 | raster | as the n800 has an anemic video bus |
| 06:20.18 | raster | the neo also has 640x480 not 800x480 to fill |
| 06:20.22 | jackey | maybe it is software stack, not the cpu, my mistake |
| 06:20.35 | raster | the software stack on the neo uses gdk-pixbuf, cairo and gtk |
| 06:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-213-191.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 06:20.42 | raster | that isnt knownm for being a speed demon |
| 06:20.51 | jackey | ravan, any luck for 4.3 on Neo? |
| 06:21.00 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 06:21.31 | jackey | glitz too? |
| 06:21.40 | raster | glitz is useless |
| 06:21.47 | raster | 1`. no accelerated rendering on the neo |
| 06:21.48 | jackey | i agree |
| 06:22.02 | jackey | may be next version |
| 06:22.02 | raster | 2. glits requires a fairly high powered 3d chip to be useful for 2d |
| 06:22.12 | raster | (eg rectangular textures etc.) |
| 06:22.22 | raster | and in the end |
| 06:22.27 | raster | with an open gfx chip and driver |
| 06:22.33 | raster | xrender itself should just be sped up directly |
| 06:22.40 | raster | without having to go via opengl |
| 06:22.59 | jackey | haha, now i am start to believe u |
| 06:23.14 | raster | evas alreayd has opengl, xrender etc. engines |
| 06:23.23 | daMaestro | raster, P2 is going to have a gpu, yes? |
| 06:23.26 | raster | but software is the best one to rely on as it works everywhere |
| 06:23.28 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:23.32 | raster | in fact there is a new software-16 engine |
| 06:23.43 | jackey | but current NEO is so slow and UE is not friendly |
| 06:23.50 | raster | specifically for 16bpp displays local to the process (no support for working over a network - pointless anyway) |
| 06:23.52 | mmp | daMaestro: yes |
| 06:23.56 | daMaestro | cool |
| 06:23.59 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: the wiki seems to indicate the mass market version will have 2d and 3d accel |
| 06:23.59 | raster | daMaestro: yes. |
| 06:24.01 | daMaestro | is the buildsys back online? |
| 06:24.09 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, !!! |
| 06:24.17 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, :-D ... good to see you here |
| 06:24.21 | AntonTakk | you too |
| 06:24.24 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, how long have you lurked here? |
| 06:24.33 | daMaestro | or has my endless "look at this" paid off? |
| 06:24.33 | AntonTakk | uh, couple hours now |
| 06:24.34 | ravan | jackey: still working on it.. spent the whole of yesterday learning about OE and bitbake |
| 06:24.41 | daMaestro | nice... |
| 06:25.24 | jackey | ravan, let me know if you need some help. jackey.yang at archermind.com |
| 06:25.41 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: actually, have a popular science mag on my desk, has an article about openmoko/neo1973, looked it up, thought it was cool, and now i'm considering a neo instead of a treo |
| 06:25.55 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, nice! press is always good |
| 06:26.08 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, i've got the qemu-neo1973 stuff packaged up |
| 06:26.11 | daMaestro | i could use another fedora tester |
| 06:26.19 | raster | jackey: http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem-live.avi |
| 06:26.21 | daMaestro | there seems to be a limited fedora presence here |
| 06:26.26 | raster | http://www.rasterman.com/files/eem.avi |
| 06:26.30 | raster | for a "cleaner" version |
| 06:26.40 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: i have the binaries built, but if you have an rpm, i'll gladly test |
| 06:26.49 | raster | but theres a live vide4o of a quick and dirty phone menu i did a few years back |
| 06:26.55 | raster | runing on an ipaq 3660 |
| 06:26.56 | daMaestro | i have to fix one mistake from earlier |
| 06:27.07 | raster | its perfectly possible to do a nice ui |
| 06:27.09 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: happen to have the files to build the image to run in qemu? |
| 06:27.10 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, i also have to see if the buildsys is back up |
| 06:27.12 | raster | that consumers will like |
| 06:27.16 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, yup :-) |
| 06:27.20 | raster | just need to put the time and effort in |
| 06:27.24 | raster | all the nuts and bolts are there |
| 06:27.27 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: buildsys wasn't up 15 mins or so ago |
| 06:27.33 | daMaestro | grrr |
| 06:27.34 | cworth | raster: hi there |
| 06:27.41 | raster | cworth: yo carl! |
| 06:27.42 | raster | :) |
| 06:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 06:28.03 | jackey | no debug board here. Noone can really help. |
| 06:28.16 | cworth | For what it's worth, I totally agree with raster about glitz, (just ignore it and speedup Render instead). |
| 06:28.26 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: i actually started off tonight trying to get it running to see about building a few things to see how it came out |
| 06:28.27 | raster | cworth: yup |
| 06:28.31 | jackey | cworth, wow |
| 06:28.36 | raster | cworth: if u are stuck with "closed drivers" like nvidia |
| 06:28.41 | raster | or new ati cards |
| 06:28.43 | raster | then u need glitz |
| 06:28.47 | raster | if its open |
| 06:28.51 | raster | just fix the x drivers |
| 06:28.55 | raster | xrender speeds up in the x core |
| 06:28.58 | raster | everyone wins |
| 06:29.02 | cworth | raster: Did you see these benchmarks that Jeff Muizelaar ran a few months ago? |
| 06:29.07 | raster | doing composite managers becomes easy and fast |
| 06:29.08 | cworth | http://people.freedesktop.org/~jrmuizel/composite-bench/over-no-oil-cheat-comparison.png |
| 06:29.16 | cworth | http://lists.freedesktop.org/archives/cairo/2007-March/009907.html |
| 06:29.19 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, well.. we need access to the buildsys or the packages are usesless |
| 06:29.28 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: how so? |
| 06:29.42 | raster | cworth: no.. i didnt! |
| 06:29.57 | raster | cworth: i was looking into liboil but i couldnt find out how to use it nicely |
| 06:29.59 | raster | so i gave up |
| 06:30.00 | cworth | raster: Oh, sorry---I really should have pointed them out to you sooner. |
| 06:30.02 | raster | :/ |
| 06:30.12 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, i'm not including images in the packages |
| 06:30.14 | raster | i thought liboil would be nice |
| 06:30.23 | raster | thats pretty good |
| 06:30.24 | raster | i must say |
| 06:30.25 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, just "openmoko-download" and "openmoko-flash" |
| 06:30.50 | cworth | raster: Yeah, David's code looks extremely impressive in that chart. |
| 06:30.54 | raster | yup |
| 06:30.55 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: ah |
| 06:31.04 | raster | cworth: so thats liboil based compositing? |
| 06:31.16 | cworth | raster: Yeah. |
| 06:31.16 | raster | (i assume he ripped the codee out of evas) |
| 06:31.22 | raster | to do the testing |
| 06:31.25 | raster | thats pretty nice |
| 06:31.28 | raster | x86 i assume tho? |
| 06:31.44 | raster | i'm impressed |
| 06:31.47 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: does your rpm intigrate with the virt mach man in f7? |
| 06:31.49 | raster | credit where credit is due |
| 06:31.51 | raster | he beat me |
| 06:31.52 | raster | crap |
| 06:32.02 | cworth | raster: The email has the code for the benchmark, so knock yourself out. |
| 06:32.06 | raster | must...fix...code... have...been...beaten!!!! :) |
| 06:32.35 | jackey | out of here. bye guys |
| 06:32.47 | cworth | Yes, x86: "Intel(R) Xeon(TM) CPU 2.80GHz." |
| 06:32.48 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, they don't conflict, but they don't take advantage of KVM |
| 06:33.06 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: more interested in starting the vm from that gui |
| 06:33.22 | raster | cworth: very nice |
| 06:33.32 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, hmm... it's possible we could add it to virt-manager |
| 06:34.02 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: if it gets added in to qemu upstream, it will probably be added anyways thou |
| 06:34.02 | raster | cworth: although recently i focused on scaling out more - evas has a SIMD multi-threaded rendering engine now |
| 06:34.06 | raster | has for a while |
| 06:34.11 | raster | so if you have 4 cores... |
| 06:34.18 | cworth | raster: Cool. |
| 06:34.21 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, yes.. and that is the goal |
| 06:34.21 | raster | evas will kindly soak up as much of all 4 cores as it can |
| 06:34.31 | raster | splits the renderign up between them |
| 06:34.36 | raster | i managed to do ti with only 1 mutex |
| 06:34.42 | raster | on font structs |
| 06:34.50 | raster | i am burning to get rid of that mutex |
| 06:34.57 | raster | i hates me mutexes |
| 06:35.04 | cworth | raster: I've got an MS student working on a jit-based replacement for pixman. I'm hoping it will pan out and let us easily include the fastest software available for cairo's rendering. |
| 06:35.11 | raster | the only problem goign simd was |
| 06:35.27 | raster | complex ops (interpolated scaling, super sampling etc.) got good speedups |
| 06:35.30 | cworth | (It's sad that even 3 months after Jeff's benchmark, we're still shipping cairo with the same old slow software.) |
| 06:35.32 | raster | almost 2x speedup on a dual core |
| 06:35.34 | raster | other ops |
| 06:35.43 | raster | like blitting or even just blending actualyl slow down |
| 06:35.44 | raster | :( |
| 06:36.00 | daMaestro | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/ <---- nooooooo |
| 06:36.06 | daMaestro | does anyone have a mirror of the buildhosts? |
| 06:36.11 | raster | cworth: a jit enigne would be nice |
| 06:36.12 | cworth | raster: Yeah, that kind of thing will happen with SIMD. |
| 06:36.17 | daMaestro | just something i can pull the 3 latest images from? |
| 06:37.28 | raster | cworth: have u heard of that complete software direct3d implementation? |
| 06:37.36 | raster | its even meant to be usabel on a fast cpu |
| 06:38.04 | raster | its built on softwire |
| 06:38.09 | cworth | raster: Yeah, I'm hoping something will appear soon. We did a proof-of-concept thing in 1 day, and now Daniel Amelang has been doing all the hard work. You can see his progress in one-post-per-month updates here: |
| 06:38.11 | raster | whihc is kind of a jit for gfx ops |
| 06:38.11 | cworth | http://vpri.org/pipermail/jitblit/ |
| 06:38.28 | cworth | No, I hadn't heard of that. |
| 06:39.05 | *** part/#openmoko bluefir (n=dave@milligan.bluefir.org) |
| 06:39.11 | ravan | bitbake never seems to resume from failed packages... always restarts from gnu-config-native :( |
| 06:39.15 | raster | its been around for years now |
| 06:40.15 | raster | cworth: i might need to do a libpixman evas engine |
| 06:40.17 | raster | that might be useful |
| 06:40.25 | raster | as it will be easy to hack pixmap outside of x |
| 06:40.28 | raster | no need to restart |
| 06:40.37 | raster | and then that filters back to x |
| 06:40.48 | raster | and technically |
| 06:40.53 | raster | that means the jit stuff or liboil |
| 06:40.53 | cworth | raster: Yeah---the X server depends on an external libpixman now, which is nice. |
| 06:40.59 | raster | etc. work goign into pixman would be useful |
| 06:41.02 | raster | yup |
| 06:41.08 | raster | that was a great move recently |
| 06:41.11 | raster | thus why i am considering it |
| 06:41.19 | raster | though i would personalyl want to extend libpixman |
| 06:41.27 | raster | i will NEEd filtered downscaling |
| 06:41.31 | raster | can't live withotu that |
| 06:41.33 | raster | its uuuuugly |
| 06:41.38 | cworth | Right, and if/when Daniel's stuff becomes "real" then pixman should get a _lot_ more interesting. |
| 06:41.42 | raster | and need to throw in yuv->rgb |
| 06:42.10 | cworth | Oh, you would make a *lot* of people happy if you added reasonable downscaling to pixman. |
| 06:42.41 | raster | :) |
| 06:42.56 | raster | xrenders current "nearest" downscaling makes me... want.. too.... vomit |
| 06:42.58 | raster | :) |
| 06:43.03 | raster | now |
| 06:43.10 | raster | all i need is that crucial ingedient - TIME |
| 06:43.21 | raster | also a custom 16bpp enigne would be ncie |
| 06:43.35 | raster | though not sure how well that would work with pixman |
| 06:44.48 | cworth | It should be doing bilinear downscaling, (that is, you get filtering only as long as you're scaling down by a factor of 2 or less). |
| 06:45.34 | cworth | Again, the jit work has the potential to make it easy to support 16bpp, (and floating-point formats, and anything else crazy people want to do...). |
| 06:45.37 | raster | cworth: problem with that is - its limtied range |
| 06:45.48 | raster | and even there my experience is that the quality is dubious |
| 06:46.14 | raster | 16bpp is a bit tricky to support |
| 06:46.17 | cworth | raster: Anyway, good to catch up with you a bit---I should really go get some sleep now. |
| 06:46.18 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, neo > treo |
| 06:46.24 | raster | because you need to pick a format for pixels thats efficient |
| 06:46.34 | raster | i went for a 16bpp 565 + alpha plane |
| 06:46.36 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, neo > treo^9999999 |
| 06:46.42 | raster | where alpha is 0->32 (not 0->31) |
| 06:46.51 | raster | to avoid needing corrections in the over blend math |
| 06:47.01 | raster | cworth: ok- go snooze man |
| 06:47.19 | raster | i should really dig into pixman now that its going to be useful |
| 06:47.19 | raster | :) |
| 06:49.54 | daMaestro | darn... et.1.16.rs3k47.rz6.hetzner.de is telling me that buildhost is down |
| 06:51.46 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: yes, and no, that full qwerty kb built in to the treo and the digital cam are nice features to have |
| 06:52.02 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: especially since part of it's use would be for e-mail |
| 06:52.42 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, why would you want a shit keyboard? |
| 06:52.53 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, just pickup a sweet bluetooth keyboard |
| 06:53.42 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: i can imagine it would be slightly clumsy to hold the moko and a usb kb |
| 06:54.13 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: now, if a touch screen kb could be implimented on openmoko with reasonable acuracy, that would be just as well |
| 06:54.20 | AntonTakk | er |
| 06:54.23 | AntonTakk | bt kb |
| 06:54.39 | daMaestro | well.. there is a touch keyboard |
| 06:54.43 | AntonTakk | but it seems the screen size would somewhat limit that |
| 06:54.52 | daMaestro | but i think it is stylus based.. not finger based |
| 06:55.00 | AntonTakk | especially since i don't have small thumbs |
| 06:55.03 | AntonTakk | ah |
| 06:55.06 | *** join/#openmoko ferret_0567 (n=ferret_0@cpe-72-183-231-110.satx.res.rr.com) |
| 06:56.43 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel |
| 06:56.58 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Stylus_06_input_keypad_dock.png |
| 06:59.05 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: see, with the accelerometers, wouldn't it be easy enough to detect the phone being flipped sideways in relevant apps and display a longer, mode finger friendly on screen kb? |
| 06:59.19 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, i expect so |
| 06:59.22 | AntonTakk | with a line or two for text at the top |
| 06:59.28 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, i'm most likely going to also get: http://www.pdalive.com/forums/attachment.php?s=39a7403e6f4c57ac8241a95d0f4c4cd4&postid=49522 |
| 06:59.47 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, the great part: it's open.. so you can make it do that! ;-) |
| 07:02.43 | AntonTakk | i'm no programmer thou |
| 07:03.09 | AntonTakk | oh, a plushy keyboard |
| 07:03.11 | AntonTakk | :) |
| 07:04.26 | *** join/#openmoko intarwebz (n=intarweb@unaffiliated/intarwebz) |
| 07:05.22 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, yeah.. it's not for ultra mobile typing.. (like on the bus/train) .. i'll use the stylus for that |
| 07:05.33 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, i'm expecting to be able to irc over vpn |
| 07:06.13 | AntonTakk | yeah |
| 07:06.30 | intarwebz | will i be able to get one of these developer phones and use it on cingular? |
| 07:06.30 | aloril | intarwebz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:07.14 | daMaestro | intarwebz, it should work on "cingular" (which is now att) |
| 07:07.21 | intarwebz | oh heh right |
| 07:07.26 | daMaestro | intarwebz, att has support for GSM... so you should be able to |
| 07:07.29 | mjr | yeah, should, given that att is GSM |
| 07:07.31 | madwoota | not sure why you'd expect anything to work to be honest |
| 07:07.34 | AntonTakk | intarwebz: i don't think the dev phones will be quite ready for general use, you might want to wait for tyhe final product in october |
| 07:07.35 | madwoota | its a dev phone |
| 07:07.37 | madwoota | heh |
| 07:07.50 | daMaestro | well that is why i want it |
| 07:07.51 | intarwebz | no i know i have another phone but i mean for testing purposes does the gsm radio work i guess was my question |
| 07:07.53 | daMaestro | ;-) |
| 07:08.30 | intarwebz | so there are only 1000? |
| 07:09.01 | intarwebz | i've gotta get one; i'd have gotten an iphone if there were any app dev entry point other than opera :P |
| 07:09.37 | daMaestro | intarwebz, +1 |
| 07:10.00 | raster | you had bettre line up outside fi'cs offices |
| 07:10.06 | raster | to get one |
| 07:10.13 | raster | then buy them all and sell them on ebay |
| 07:10.14 | raster | :) |
| 07:10.28 | AntonTakk | heh |
| 07:10.42 | daMaestro | wait? raster ? |
| 07:11.23 | daMaestro | raster, are the first 1k accounted for already? |
| 07:11.39 | daMaestro | i really hope not |
| 07:11.40 | raster | i have no idea |
| 07:11.46 | raster | i was making an iphone-joke |
| 07:11.48 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 07:11.57 | raster | with all the peolpe camping outside apple stores etc.; to get one |
| 07:12.01 | intarwebz | yeah, the iphone finder's pretty much showing that nobody sold out |
| 07:12.12 | raster | really? |
| 07:12.18 | madwoota | hah |
| 07:12.26 | madwoota | *fizzle* |
| 07:12.40 | raster | really? |
| 07:12.51 | raster | man the press must be soooo overhyping it |
| 07:12.53 | daMaestro | no, apple was just better prepared then sony (aka ps3) |
| 07:12.59 | raster | as all u read is "iphone this.. ip[hone that" |
| 07:13.44 | daMaestro | it's too expensive for a random splurge |
| 07:13.56 | intarwebz | yeah, i think the iphone's pretty cool except that it doesn't actually do any of the things i need a device to do |
| 07:14.07 | AntonTakk | yeah, the iphone struck me as getting far more attention than it deserved |
| 07:14.15 | intarwebz | it's cooler than walking around with a nokia n800 tethered via bluetooth but i can do my job from the n800 |
| 07:14.26 | mindCrime | iWhat? |
| 07:14.30 | intarwebz | and i guarantee the iphone would get me more booty |
| 07:14.43 | intarwebz | which i think is a good sign of the times; gadgets attracting ladies, that i can get behind |
| 07:14.55 | daMaestro | intarwebz, yuck |
| 07:14.56 | daMaestro | lol |
| 07:15.03 | madwoota | no iphones on ebay yet ... must be pretty bad |
| 07:15.14 | mindCrime | I dunno... the kind of girls that care about trendy status symbols like that... probably not exactly the cream of the crop. |
| 07:15.29 | daMaestro | intarwebz, those are the girls that bought every RAZR, even when all that changed was the color |
| 07:15.34 | intarwebz | madwoota i saw iphones on ebay |
| 07:15.40 | daMaestro | no, not at all, intarwebz |
| 07:15.47 | madwoota | er, wrong cat :P |
| 07:15.50 | intarwebz | no?? |
| 07:15.53 | daMaestro | but you will at least know if you take them home you're getting ****ed |
| 07:15.53 | daMaestro | lol |
| 07:15.56 | intarwebz | maybe it was the tPhone :P |
| 07:16.16 | madwoota | $1k+ |
| 07:16.17 | madwoota | rofl |
| 07:16.25 | AntonTakk | it's a smart phone, but get this: it plays music! and video!, and a bunch of other stuff that every other smart phone in existance does, and it only costs a few hundred more for a shiny plastic case that will get scratched up in three months!!! *chirp* *chirp* *chirp* |
| 07:16.44 | daMaestro | and wait: you have to use carrier XYZ |
| 07:16.53 | AntonTakk | oh, yeah, that too |
| 07:17.00 | ravan | http://www.smashsworld.com/2007/06/10-things-that-absolutely-suck-about.php |
| 07:17.13 | intarwebz | yeah, that's my biggest beef; att can slob my--wait i'm not sure if irc etiquette permits |
| 07:17.28 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 07:17.31 | madwoota | only a couple of bids on them, hardly a rush .. i saw ps3's with dozens of bids |
| 07:17.55 | intarwebz | someone needs to find out the default user so we can start ssh-ing INTO the iphones |
| 07:18.57 | intarwebz | but i don't mean to be so off topic |
| 07:21.22 | raster | i doubt u can ssh in |
| 07:21.29 | daMaestro | yeah.. i really doubt it |
| 07:21.41 | daMaestro | my understanding is there is *no* shell.. of any kind |
| 07:22.54 | intarwebz | what happened to "it's a full osx?" |
| 07:23.04 | madwoota | Our Deity who is Jobs says you dont need a shell |
| 07:23.09 | intarwebz | was that marketing speak back before att asked what that actually entailed?' |
| 07:23.12 | raster | under all the ui there probbly is one |
| 07:23.16 | raster | but not as if they let u get to it |
| 07:23.41 | intarwebz | i'm sure there's a way to remote in for admin purposes |
| 07:24.29 | raster | i doubt it |
| 07:24.47 | raster | i bet u its a "must plug it into special debugign board" and u get a serial console |
| 07:24.59 | raster | but not over a network |
| 07:25.05 | raster | or anything "advanced" |
| 07:25.05 | treYdt | yeah thats what i was thinking |
| 07:25.39 | intarwebz | hmmm.....i dunno....i don't see the advantage for apple to be restrictive, though i defs see one for att |
| 07:25.54 | intarwebz | as i see it, any dumbing down was done for contractual reasons on using the network |
| 07:26.13 | intarwebz | that opinion is largely based on the ex att ceo talking about how it's his damn internet and we shoudln't get to use it for free |
| 07:26.31 | intarwebz | may his activex be sploited |
| 07:26.45 | AntonTakk | raster: the wiki has screen shots and such showing sshing in via ethernet over usb as root |
| 07:27.21 | treYdt | antontakk: link? |
| 07:27.29 | AntonTakk | knew that was coming |
| 07:27.32 | AntonTakk | let me find it |
| 07:27.34 | treYdt | hhahaa kk |
| 07:27.50 | raster | AntonTakk: to the iphone? |
| 07:29.05 | AntonTakk | oh, no, the neo |
| 07:29.09 | treYdt | oooo |
| 07:29.10 | treYdt | kk |
| 07:29.17 | treYdt | no link necessary then |
| 07:29.18 | treYdt | :) |
| 07:29.20 | AntonTakk | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973#Getting_shell_access_on_the_phone btw |
| 07:29.35 | raster | ooh |
| 07:29.40 | raster | we were talkign about the iphone |
| 07:29.43 | raster | the neo is open |
| 07:29.46 | raster | of course |
| 07:29.48 | raster | :) |
| 07:29.49 | AntonTakk | yeah |
| 07:30.02 | AntonTakk | been away reading ravan's earlier link |
| 07:30.06 | raster | i have my little ssh prompt sittin on another desktop |
| 07:30.12 | AntonTakk | nice |
| 07:30.47 | AntonTakk | i think i'm going to wait for the consumer version, as i want to actually use it while I take my time trying to build apps for it |
| 07:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:31.38 | raster | u'll get more flash , accelerometers and gfx accel |
| 07:31.44 | raster | that should open up a lot of potential |
| 07:31.53 | intarwebz | AntonTakk: i think you may have the right strategy |
| 07:31.57 | raster | just reading this "what sucks about the iphone" thing |
| 07:31.58 | daMaestro | hmm buildhost is still down |
| 07:32.04 | raster | amusing... |
| 07:32.12 | intarwebz | raster: i didn't think the 10 things were too bad except the no tethering |
| 07:32.14 | intarwebz | that's totally bogus |
| 07:32.53 | daMaestro | and not being able to buy music from the phone |
| 07:32.55 | daMaestro | that is just stupid |
| 07:33.17 | raster | intarwebz: that do seem l;ike major ui blunders to me |
| 07:33.29 | raster | for someone like apple |
| 07:33.31 | raster | its bad |
| 07:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:34.46 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: thou, you wouldn't want to type in your account info or credit card info with that phone anyways :) |
| 07:35.37 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, it can easily be attached to your account |
| 07:35.45 | AntonTakk | .... |
| 07:35.47 | daMaestro | you think that att doesn't know who is on their network when? |
| 07:35.48 | AntonTakk | no thanks |
| 07:35.51 | daMaestro | it makes no sense to me |
| 07:36.23 | AntonTakk | i prefer to remember my cc numbers/etc my self, don't want a website or app to do it for me |
| 07:36.27 | daMaestro | if apple was going to get into bed with att... i don't see why they didn't at least make it so they make more money |
| 07:36.32 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 07:36.34 | daMaestro | no, no CC info |
| 07:36.35 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62f33.bb.sky.com) |
| 07:36.42 | daMaestro | it's just attached to your "iTunes" account |
| 07:36.51 | daMaestro | all you have to do is login to "iTunes" |
| 07:36.57 | AntonTakk | ah |
| 07:37.00 | daMaestro | via your phone.. and it buys your music |
| 07:37.02 | AntonTakk | still thou |
| 07:37.04 | daMaestro | anyways.. stupid. |
| 07:37.51 | AntonTakk | if you think about it, any device that supports data networking can probably be broken in to by anyone with enough desire/means |
| 07:37.56 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 07:38.06 | empty_mind | will openmoko support this http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/30/iphone-pottymouth-friendly/ |
| 07:38.37 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, if you think about it.. there would be no need to have any private information when "buying" music |
| 07:38.49 | mjr | (hahaha no tethering on the iphone) |
| 07:38.50 | AntonTakk | true |
| 07:38.54 | daMaestro | the carrier already knows who you are.. all they do is tell iTunes.. you attache your phone to your iTunes account... and boom |
| 07:39.02 | AntonTakk | yeah |
| 07:39.05 | daMaestro | it's a stupid thing... (not that i really care) but still |
| 07:39.11 | daMaestro | common apple... what tools |
| 07:39.11 | daMaestro | lol |
| 07:39.20 | daMaestro | annnyways.. this is why i'm all about the openmoko |
| 07:39.32 | daMaestro | if there is something i don't like.. i can fix it.. and show others how to fix it :-0 |
| 07:39.34 | raster | empty_mind: well if we just use ispell/aspell |
| 07:39.36 | raster | it would |
| 07:39.38 | daMaestro | grrrr ;-) |
| 07:40.06 | *** join/#openmoko nsirota (n=nsirota@denali.ccs.neu.edu) |
| 07:40.23 | raster | daMaestro: indeed |
| 07:40.29 | raster | u cant complain (as much) |
| 07:40.32 | daMaestro | lol |
| 07:40.33 | raster | as u can always fix it |
| 07:40.38 | raster | if u create somethnig cool |
| 07:40.48 | raster | it likely will get rolled into the next product/firmware revision |
| 07:40.50 | nsirota | Hey guys, does anyone know if Neo1973 is still on schedule for next weeks release? |
| 07:40.51 | aloril | nsirota: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:40.53 | raster | so it will become standard |
| 07:40.55 | empty_mind | raster i ave heard you tested efl on openmoko |
| 07:41.03 | raster | empty_mind: no - i havent |
| 07:41.08 | raster | i was building all of OE yesterday |
| 07:41.17 | empty_mind | raster, ok |
| 07:41.23 | raster | and today i started fioxing up e17 to be more "moko friendly" |
| 07:41.38 | raster | (ie i added a small hook and a module that forces windows to maximize always) |
| 07:41.46 | raster | but dialogs are centered with a border |
| 07:42.35 | empty_mind | do we have any notes app for openmoko ? |
| 07:42.54 | nsirota | I've been checking the wiki, but I dont quite understand if I will be able to order on the 9th of this month if I have to wait until october |
| 07:43.16 | empty_mind | nsirota, are you a developer interested in hacking phone ? |
| 07:43.24 | nsirota | yes |
| 07:43.39 | empty_mind | nsirota, then order on 9th else wait till october |
| 07:44.03 | empty_mind | mickeyl, there ? |
| 07:44.09 | nsirota | I'm going crazy with everyone talking about the iphone as if its the second coming of jesus |
| 07:44.40 | empty_mind | nsirota, that marketing hype. See apple has more money than all of us collective |
| 07:45.03 | nsirota | empty_mind, I apologize for asking so many questions, but do you know if I will be able to order directly from openmoko.com? |
| 07:45.28 | empty_mind | nsirota, i think so. |
| 07:45.30 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host86-152-200-148.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:45.36 | nsirota | Also, will it be able to interface with AT&T's GSM network? |
| 07:45.48 | ravan | nsirota: http://youtube.com/watch?v=xgZKjJt-TkU might cheer you up |
| 07:46.11 | empty_mind | nsirota, i saw a working phone in april and it worked with Indian GSM network. I even made a phone call with Indian sim card |
| 07:46.13 | nsirota | =D |
| 07:46.38 | ravan | empty_mind: where?!! |
| 07:46.46 | raster | nsirota: behold! the iphone! worship no false idols! love your god and father, steve, and accept his blessings (after handing out lots of cash to him). |
| 07:47.00 | nsirota | haha |
| 07:47.51 | empty_mind | ravan in Bangalore, when Harald and Sean visited Bangalore on 10th APril |
| 07:47.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Openstreetmap]] |
| 07:48.53 | ravan | empty_mind: :( i would have gone if i knew about it |
| 07:49.36 | *** join/#openmoko andi_ (n=andi@pD9E27C4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:49.39 | empty_mind | ravan, well if you dont hang out on #linux-india this will happen |
| 07:50.21 | empty_mind | btw anyone knows the proessor speed of iphone ? |
| 07:50.24 | nsirota | Oh man, now I know how people felt waiting for the iPhone! I really dont know what to do with myself until the 9th =D |
| 07:50.51 | ravan | nsirota: you aren't going to get it on the 9th.. it'll take time to ship :P |
| 07:50.56 | daMaestro | nsirota, yeah.. but we don't have to sign away our mobile freedom for 2 years |
| 07:51.18 | empty_mind | nsirota, hehe lucky you. Delay in lauch of neo has costed me this device atleast. I am out of money to buy such devices |
| 07:51.35 | nsirota | nor conform to the hundreds of thousands of people who dont quite know better |
| 07:51.47 | empty_mind | anyone will ing to sponsor a device for me ? |
| 07:52.39 | nsirota | haha |
| 07:53.03 | daMaestro | is there any pre-order? |
| 07:53.14 | nsirota | I'll have to get my hands on the official release also |
| 07:53.29 | AntonTakk | empty_mind: take the money from something less important, like food, or health care ;) |
| 07:53.40 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p54953C45.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:54.04 | empty_mind | AntonTakk, hehe even then it will out of my pocket and by the time i get money, phone will be out of stock |
| 07:54.30 | nsirota | who needs health care when you're coding in a room all day =P |
| 07:55.58 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, well.. the buildhost is still down.. so i don't think we will get to the testing today |
| 07:57.19 | nsirota | You think they will give "beta" testers a break when it comes to buying the retail version of the phone? |
| 07:57.33 | daMaestro | no, we are getting the price break on the first device |
| 07:57.39 | daMaestro | and we don't have send it back (so you end up with 2) |
| 07:57.49 | daMaestro | nsirota, http://openmoko.com/ |
| 07:57.52 | nsirota | true |
| 07:57.55 | empty_mind | i think they will give a discount to those who buy devel version of the phone |
| 07:58.00 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=richard@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 07:58.06 | daMaestro | no, we are all going to get the discount |
| 07:58.14 | daMaestro | empty_mind, see above link |
| 07:58.16 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 07:58.29 | empty_mind | Linux_Galore, howdy |
| 07:58.52 | Linux_Galore | heh, just trying to fix a Gutsy bug in the boot process |
| 07:59.26 | *** join/#openmoko raster_ (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 07:59.52 | daMaestro | Zoolooc, do you know who runs the buildhost (lol... i just notice you are de) |
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| 08:00.54 | AntonTakk | oh, wow |
| 08:00.56 | AntonTakk | 2 am |
| 08:01.02 | daMaestro | yup |
| 08:01.03 | daMaestro | lol |
| 08:01.03 | AntonTakk | i am way late for bed |
| 08:01.24 | AntonTakk | by, like.........5 hours |
| 08:01.42 | daMaestro | my command and conquer 3 download just finished (ealink was slow... and the download was 5.2GB) |
| 08:01.51 | AntonTakk | ack! |
| 08:02.05 | Zoolooc | daMaestro don't know, I'm just occasionaly reading this channel, to try to get a feeling when some decent linux pda-phone hits the market :-) |
| 08:02.23 | daMaestro | ahh, cool.. i just noticed you are .de and i know the buildhost is in .de |
| 08:02.29 | AntonTakk | Zoolooc: October ;) |
| 08:03.25 | Zoolooc | hmm, nice to hear |
| 08:03.51 | Zoolooc | yeah, I'm living in .de |
| 08:03.58 | AntonTakk | anyways, night all |
| 08:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host52-123-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:06.44 | daMaestro | AntonTakk, i'll ping you when the buildhost is back up and you can test the build |
| 08:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko wilsoniya_ (n=wilsoniy@66-188-106-255.dhcp.mdsn.wi.charter.com) |
| 08:08.30 | wilsoniya_ | hello |
| 08:09.53 | AntonTakk | daMaestro: cool, thanks |
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| 08:20.50 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:21.01 | wilsoniya_ | hi |
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| 08:25.53 | waecky | hey |
| 08:26.27 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 08:26.30 | PBeck | hi |
| 08:26.42 | PBeck | hi |
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| 08:42.48 | aloril2 | he is not here, but I think jackey doesn't need new hardware (2007-07-09 is GTA01B_v04 which he already has), he needs to install new software |
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| 09:48.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] |
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| 10:07.31 | mjr | the iphone bash of the day: http://www.essistme.com/2007/06/27/20-real-downsides-of-apple-iphone/ |
| 10:08.44 | zell1983 | oh my god |
| 10:08.47 | zell1983 | incredible |
| 10:09.24 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFD5A4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:09.55 | _buz | it has a few totally ridiculous facts there |
| 10:10.13 | _buz | it being an ipod but not playing mp3 ringtones is uhm pure rip off |
| 10:10.31 | _buz | Even though it has a 2 Megapixel camera, you CANNOT SEND PICS TO OTHER CELL PHONES VIA MMS PICTURE MESSAGING. |
| 10:10.33 | _buz | thats weird |
| 10:11.03 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081D043.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:11.23 | ynezz | you've to write app for it in javascript :p |
| 10:11.56 | zell1983 | hey! you can make a lot of stuff with javascript |
| 10:12.06 | zell1983 | for example............ |
| 10:12.33 | zell1983 | nothing usefull for a phone ... |
| 10:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 10:14.56 | ynezz | alert(); is cool! |
| 10:24.42 | Linux_Galore | some has done some Nokia N95 v iPhone spoofs -> http://www.youtube.com/profile_videos?user=Rcadden&p=r |
| 10:24.49 | Linux_Galore | someone* |
| 10:28.27 | Linux_Galore | heh iPhone "I have to go back to China to get my battery replaced" |
| 10:28.45 | Stephmw | _buz: did you read theregister review? |
| 10:29.04 | _buz | no |
| 10:29.05 | _buz | why |
| 10:29.14 | Stephmw | "the phone ended up tossing all my mail into a single container. Received messages. Sent messages. Everything." |
| 10:29.41 | Stephmw | he was pulling it from gmail over pop |
| 10:30.05 | _buz | very useful indeed |
| 10:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:30.18 | _buz | i wonder if it might be a gmail issue though |
| 10:30.34 | _buz | technically, sent messages shouldnt even live in pop |
| 10:31.12 | _buz | (besides, kmail can be told to save sent messages in the same folder as the messages they reply to which is quite useful to me, gives true threading) |
| 10:32.04 | *** join/#openmoko bonan (n=bonan@h129n2fls33o865.telia.com) |
| 10:32.14 | Stephmw | I think it's just a statement on the expected level of usability fom an Apple application... the iphone's email client doesn't quite match the expectation |
| 10:33.28 | _buz | no wonder really. mail.app isnt useable at all |
| 10:33.35 | _buz | as is most stuff that apple ships with osx when you get down to it |
| 10:34.15 | _buz | safari? worst browser ever. finder? not sure what it does, really (not find files, in any case). iphoto? useless. |
| 10:34.49 | webjames | isn't there some problem with sms? |
| 10:35.40 | Elleo | are there precompiled images for openmoko anywhere? The wiki mentions buildhost.openmoko.org, but that's down |
| 10:36.15 | *** join/#openmoko Hamburger1984 (n=andreas@e177232119.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:36.49 | _buz | whats the state of gnash these days? |
| 10:36.56 | _buz | flash would be a nice way to one up the iphone |
| 10:37.12 | Stephmw | webjames: apart from requiring tiny fingers to type, I wasn't aware of sms problems |
| 10:37.57 | webjames | maybe it was the email, combining the sms or something |
| 10:38.46 | Stephmw | not thinking of the lacking mms? |
| 10:40.39 | *** join/#openmoko JJJh (i=money@85-255-49-104.kis.user.lt) |
| 10:40.52 | mjr | _buz, good point :) |
| 10:41.01 | *** part/#openmoko JJJh (i=money@85-255-49-104.kis.user.lt) |
| 10:41.10 | _buz | mhh gnash is said to be able to do youtube now |
| 10:41.12 | mjr | gnash could actually play youtube once I checked, though the playback was jerky |
| 10:41.34 | mjr | gnash I think renders with opengl, so the GPU could be required... |
| 10:41.38 | _buz | on a phone youtube might actually be bearable |
| 10:41.47 | _buz | i doubt you need OGL for video? |
| 10:41.52 | _buz | that would be some seriously bad engineering |
| 10:42.30 | _buz | besides we should get ogl ES in gta02 |
| 10:42.41 | _buz | Gnash uses OpenGL for rendering the graphics on the desktop, and AntiGrain (AGG) for embedded framebuffer only devices. |
| 10:42.54 | _buz | (whatever AGG may be) |
| 10:43.07 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@p549612C5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:43.31 | _buz | "Gnash uses OpenGL for rendering the graphics on the desktop, and AntiGrain (AGG) for embedded framebuffer only devices." |
| 10:43.33 | _buz | oops |
| 10:43.42 | _buz | "Gnash supports the viewing of streaming video from popular video sharing sites like Lulu.tv or YouTube.com." |
| 10:44.42 | _buz | and with the work on webkit gtk, we just might get something very similar to iphone's browser |
| 10:45.58 | _buz | http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/07/webkit-progress.html |
| 10:46.16 | mjr | righto |
| 10:46.36 | mjr | (and yeah, ogl es was why I mentioned the GPU) |
| 10:49.45 | _buz | if openmoko sells pcb only |
| 10:51.01 | webjames | Stephmw, i think i was thinking of the lacking mms |
| 10:51.51 | _buz | barcode recognition? yeah thats gonna be reeeeeally useful without cam |
| 10:52.55 | *** join/#openmoko ketut (n=ketut@202.75.101.130) |
| 10:53.05 | _buz | not sure how OCR would be useful, either |
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| 10:58.05 | CIA-17 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2355 10/trunk/oe/ (3 files in 3 dirs): update kernel to 2.6.21.5 |
| 10:59.46 | ravan | anyone else get an error like this ---> mount: unknown filesystem type 'gadgetfs' |
| 11:02.57 | balrog-kun | ravan: make sure the module is loaded |
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| 11:08.13 | ravan | balrog-kun: yes, gadgetfs, usbnet and cdc_ether are loaded. dummy_hcd seems to be compiled in (i'm trying to confirm (kubuntu fiesty)) |
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| 11:10.05 | balrog-kun | ravan: does /proc/filesystems have anything with "gadget" in it? |
| 11:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
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| 11:10.33 | balrog-kun | here it says "nodev gadgetfs" |
| 11:10.37 | ravan | balrog-kun: nodev gadgetfs |
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| 11:10.57 | ravan | balrog-kun: it's there on my machine too |
| 11:11.24 | balrog-kun | i'm not sure what it might be then |
| 11:11.29 | ravan | balrog-kun: what kernel are you using? |
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| 11:12.16 | balrog-kun | 2.6.20-rc3-omap1 (from git) |
| 11:12.57 | ravan | i'm using 2.6.20-16 (default of kubuntu fiesty) |
| 11:13.51 | balrog-kun | maybe their "mount" binary hardcodes the filesystem names somehow |
| 11:14.11 | balrog-kun | is "unknown filesystem" the only message it prints? |
| 11:14.37 | ravan | yes |
| 11:14.39 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 11:15.53 | ravan | i'll try rebooting |
| 11:17.11 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 11:17.54 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p5489138C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 11:21.45 | *** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@88.134.98.156) |
| 11:21.47 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@202.140.50.194) |
| 11:21.57 | ravan | no luck |
| 11:22.54 | *** join/#openmoko longshot (n=gl@CPE-58-161-49-60.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 11:25.15 | balrog-kun | ravan: what's the exact mount cmdline you gave? |
| 11:25.55 | ravan | balrog-kun: mount /dev/gadget |
| 11:26.52 | ravan | do i have to load any of the other gadget drivers? g_ether? |
| 11:27.08 | balrog-kun | ravan: no |
| 11:27.18 | balrog-kun | ravan: and /dev/gadget is in your fstab? |
| 11:27.36 | ravan | yes.. the line as copied from the qemu wiki page |
| 11:28.01 | balrog-kun | i'd try the full command, i.e. mount -t gadgetfs g /dev/gadget |
| 11:28.29 | balrog-kun | also, /dev/gadget is a directory? |
| 11:29.26 | ravan | yes, it is a directory with rwxr-xr-x perms |
| 11:30.27 | ravan | is there any other way to get a connection between host and target in qemu? |
| 11:31.16 | *** join/#openmoko Bryan_Dort (n=chatzill@24-236-230-251.dhcp.trcy.mi.charter.com) |
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| 11:31.54 | balrog-kun | qemu can emulate a usb NIC, but it is said to not work very well |
| 11:32.32 | balrog-kun | it's enabled with -usbdevice net:blah |
| 11:32.59 | ravan | balrog-kun: thanks |
| 11:33.51 | balrog-kun | http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/qemu-devel/2006-11/msg00044.html |
| 11:35.42 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 11:36.30 | ravan | coredump :) |
| 11:36.52 | balrog-kun | hmm |
| 11:36.56 | balrog-kun | did you use -usb too? |
| 11:37.16 | ravan | yes.. tried both ways |
| 11:39.07 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@p5497E066.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:40.57 | ravan | aah.. this is frustrating.. so close |
| 11:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 11:42.27 | balrog-kun | -net user -net nic,model=usb -usbdevice net:0 is working here |
| 11:42.56 | balrog-kun | meaning that it boots, not that i can use the network |
| 11:43.21 | balrog-kun | ifconfig shows the usb0 interface |
| 11:44.12 | balrog-kun | oh, did you type "blah" literally? :p |
| 11:44.43 | ravan | balrog-kun: *embarassed* yes |
| 11:44.50 | balrog-kun | ;) |
| 11:47.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone/de]] |
| 11:47.34 | ravan | is there a way to connect the host's physical keyboard to qemu? so that i can type instead of using the keyboard app |
| 11:49.11 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@p54B30492.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:49.34 | SpeedEvil | Umm |
| 11:49.45 | balrog-kun | ravan: -usbdevice keyboard |
| 11:49.45 | SpeedEvil | there are keyboard relayer apps over X |
| 11:49.52 | SpeedEvil | or that |
| 11:50.42 | balrog-kun | alternatively, if you have a physical USB keyboard you can connect it to the VM, but you won't get it back ;) |
| 11:51.10 | balrog-kun | unless you replug it |
| 11:51.33 | kiney | counter |
| 11:51.34 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-30T13:10) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, a day 00:08:26 (8.006±1.0 days) (1658;242) |
| 11:52.50 | ravan | balrog-kun: -usbdevice keyboard works perfectly |
| 11:53.25 | balrog-kun | :) |
| 11:54.33 | SpeedEvil | http://sourceforge.net/projects/xkbdrelay/ |
| 11:54.35 | SpeedEvil | forex |
| 11:54.41 | ravan | SpeedEvil: i'm not using X |
| 11:55.11 | SpeedEvil | I mean connect to the X running on the neo. |
| 11:55.18 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 11:55.20 | SpeedEvil | I see. |
| 11:55.23 | ravan | SpeedEvil: i have no X on neo |
| 11:55.24 | SpeedEvil | Sorry. |
| 11:55.28 | balrog-kun | aaaand it would need a reliable networking first |
| 11:55.49 | ravan | :) |
| 11:56.03 | SpeedEvil | What are you doing if you've got no X? |
| 11:56.27 | ravan | i'm trying to get get a qtopia app to work |
| 11:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:56.46 | balrog-kun | ewwww |
| 11:57.10 | *** join/#openmoko fastPrint (i=fastPrin@61-216-215-130.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 11:57.20 | ravan | balrog-kun: why? |
| 11:58.00 | balrog-kun | qtopia -> qt -> C++, no X, and other nastiness :) |
| 11:58.49 | ravan | balrog-kun: i thought qtopia -> qt -> C++ => good, no X => fast ? |
| 11:59.54 | balrog-kun | that's relative i guess |
| 12:01.01 | Stephmw | lack of X is mostly a space saving IMO |
| 12:01.17 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@189.13.180.22) |
| 12:02.08 | ravan | i just wanted to try.. only because i use kde and have done a little qt programming |
| 12:03.03 | ravan | btw, gadgetfs didn't work on debian etch 2.6.18 either |
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| 12:08.10 | ravan | aah... if DUMMY_HCD is marked as development, maybe the distro disabled it.. will have to recompile my kernel |
| 12:09.04 | balrog-kun | i use it as a module |
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| 12:28.26 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: hi |
| 12:28.56 | Stephmw | hey jserv2 |
| 12:29.27 | jserv2 | Stephmw: hi |
| 12:30.11 | balrog-kun | jserv2: hiya |
| 12:30.37 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: how can I get usb0 working inside qemu emulation? |
| 12:30.56 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: I meant that in the moment. |
| 12:31.22 | balrog-kun | jserv2: with -usbdevice net: or with -usbgadget? |
| 12:31.55 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: ok, I know the later works, but for former, I have no idea. |
| 12:32.28 | balrog-kun | jserv2: i don't know how to get the former to work reliably |
| 12:32.42 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: ok, thanks :-) |
| 12:33.13 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: By the way, do you accept the Win32 patch against virtual modem for qemu-neo1973? |
| 12:33.15 | balrog-kun | it was written by tomas sailer and i think he never finished it |
| 12:33.31 | balrog-kun | jserv2: for the asprintf() stuff? |
| 12:33.49 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: no, at least for passing compilation. |
| 12:34.26 | jserv2 | -- |
| 12:34.27 | jserv2 | #include <sys/socket.h> |
| 12:34.27 | jserv2 | #include <sys/wait.h> |
| 12:34.27 | jserv2 | #include <sys/uio.h> |
| 12:34.27 | jserv2 | #include <sys/param.h> |
| 12:34.29 | jserv2 | -- |
| 12:34.46 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: they are absent for MinGW/Win32. |
| 12:35.04 | balrog-kun | jserv2: maybe a patch for this should go to gnokii |
| 12:35.36 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@62.147.230.26) |
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| 12:40.39 | balrog-kun | jserv2: btw. there's a qemu tree at http://hackndev.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/hackndev/qemu/ which supposedly builds on win32 |
| 12:41.12 | mjr | max |
| 12:41.14 | mjr | oops |
| 12:41.53 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: yes, I know. but it disabled Win32 build of virtual modem. |
| 12:42.09 | balrog-kun | ah ok |
| 12:42.42 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: I just have fixlet in my svn mirror - https://opensvn.csie.org/openmoko_addons/openmoko-emulator/ |
| 12:43.02 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: so it works on Win32 as far as I know. |
| 12:45.50 | *** join/#openmoko Viko (n=Viko@ti121210a080-10443.bb.online.no) |
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| 13:09.24 | _buz | http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/129463895/article.pl uhm lol? |
| 13:10.23 | Viko | Oh, thought that said -"No 64-bit windows for iPhone"... Which wouldn't really be news... |
| 13:12.25 | _buz | another reason not to buy an iphone |
| 13:12.30 | _buz | who in their right mind would use itunes |
| 13:14.23 | veiset | soo true:-) |
| 13:14.42 | veiset | foobar2000 is a good music player for windows |
| 13:15.31 | Basheri | but amarok > * |
| 13:20.42 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@p5485D280.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:25.01 | *** part/#openmoko petecat3 (n=petethec@c-69-253-246-202.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
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| 13:30.53 | white_gecko | hey folks |
| 13:30.55 | white_gecko | ;-) |
| 13:32.49 | _buz | amarok is being ported to win |
| 13:32.55 | _buz | i think there are even screenshots of it running around |
| 13:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko mosno (n=bmc@c220-237-32-201.brasd1.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
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| 13:35.19 | white_gecko | there ist also a portation to MacOSX |
| 13:35.41 | white_gecko | I think it is easyer with QT 4 |
| 13:36.01 | ewon | anyone else put off the iphone by the whole webapp-only thing? |
| 13:36.09 | summatusmentis | white_gecko: yeah, I think there are plans for many of the 'kde' apps to be cross platform, once qt4 is available |
| 13:36.10 | summatusmentis | ewanm89_laptop: yes |
| 13:36.19 | summatusmentis | crap... ewon, yes |
| 13:36.23 | summatusmentis | sorry ewanm89_laptop |
| 13:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 13:44.31 | galexande | i guess with 512MB flash there's no reason not to install kde too |
| 13:45.04 | white_gecko | lol |
| 13:45.16 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust41.tnt13.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
| 13:45.32 | galexande | it will be so neat to have a palmtop and not go through contortions to get gcc and libc-lite headers and so on onto it |
| 13:45.33 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 13:45.53 | galexande | i think i'm used to 120dpi qvga |
| 13:45.57 | SpeedEvil | Make a 2.4" window on your desktop display. |
| 13:46.43 | SpeedEvil | You don't have to back off far before you can't see the pixels |
| 13:47.00 | ewanm89_laptop | summatusmentis: I'm put off by it too. |
| 13:47.22 | summatusmentis | :-) stupid nick complete |
| 13:48.06 | Basheri | :OOO 8 GB microSD available |
| 13:48.13 | _buz | price? |
| 13:48.17 | Basheri | wonder how much it costs |
| 13:48.22 | _buz | i will still have to try kde on neo ;) |
| 13:48.35 | _buz | just to see what happens ;) |
| 13:48.37 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07D17D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:48.38 | thomasg_ | I really think you wont :) |
| 13:48.46 | _buz | why |
| 13:48.47 | ewanm89_laptop | summatusmentis: What client are you using? |
| 13:48.54 | summatusmentis | ewanm89_laptop: Xchat |
| 13:49.14 | Basheri | does anyone know the price for the 8 GB microSD? |
| 13:49.27 | _buz | Basheri: where do you see those |
| 13:49.30 | thomasg_ | Basheri, there's no price because theres no 8gb microSD |
| 13:49.35 | _buz | i cant find anything but vapor announcements |
| 13:49.48 | ewanm89_laptop | summatusmentis: Ah, irssi tabcompletion cycles through if you press tab again. |
| 13:50.18 | _buz | 4gb is now roughly 40EUR |
| 13:50.20 | summatusmentis | ewanm89_laptop: well, so does xchat, I just tend to assume the computer can read my mind, and pick the correct person :-P |
| 13:50.51 | Basheri | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/IPhone |
| 13:50.55 | miip | xchat cycles through? |
| 13:51.00 | thomasg_ | _buz, in the stores it is 40 €, but it isn't available |
| 13:51.03 | Basheri | see storage section |
| 13:51.06 | thomasg_ | so the price is totally useless |
| 13:51.14 | Basheri | eat-> |
| 13:51.21 | summatusmentis | miip: yeah, hit tab again, if you get the wrong one |
| 13:51.31 | _buz | mhh some online shops claim to have it on stock |
| 13:51.44 | miip | hmm my xchat shows a list of all matching nicks |
| 13:51.45 | _buz | some serious one, too |
| 13:51.56 | summatusmentis | miip: really? hrm.. maybe it's a setting hold on |
| 13:51.59 | _buz | http://www.architronic.ch/?id=000902215 claims to have 27 on stock |
| 13:52.36 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 13:53.01 | _buz | (and their stock data usually is correct) |
| 13:53.52 | summatusmentis | miip: I can't find a specific setting, I've seen xchat do that too, so it must give a setting somewhere |
| 13:54.19 | miip | summatusmentis: maybe i should update... |
| 13:54.38 | summatusmentis | maybe, I don't know... I'm just using what gentoo give me :-) |
| 13:57.01 | ewanm89_laptop | iPhone || neo, || Opening case sources voids warranty || Advanced version comes with guitar tick and Torx T6 screwdriver so you can open case. |
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| 14:17.50 | Elleo | sweet |
| 14:17.57 | Elleo | I now have openmoko running on my Palm Treo 650 :) |
| 14:18.42 | *** join/#openmoko FuzzyCat (n=andy@81.187.78.218) |
| 14:18.47 | ewon | Elleo: madness |
| 14:18.54 | ewon | how mature is Linux on such hardware? |
| 14:19.32 | koen | palm linux people == the knights of NIH |
| 14:19.45 | Elleo | well, one some of the palm devices it's pretty well established now (life drive, etc.) |
| 14:19.57 | Elleo | but I think I'm only something like the 5th or 6th person to get it running on a Treo |
| 14:20.11 | mmp | koen: what is NIH? |
| 14:20.39 | koen | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Not_Invented_Here |
| 14:20.52 | koen | "Not Invented Here (NIH) is a term used to describe a persistent sociological, corporate or institutional culture that avoids using already existing products, research or knowledge because of its different origins. " |
| 14:21.20 | Dvalin | the redhat syndrome ;p |
| 14:21.22 | _buz | mhh what does a treo 650 retail for these days |
| 14:21.33 | _buz | (are they even available retail ?) |
| 14:21.47 | koen | wasn't the 650 EOL's 2 years ago? |
| 14:22.05 | ewon | heh :) |
| 14:22.10 | _buz | still being sold it seems |
| 14:22.11 | ewon | redhat people are not _that_ bad |
| 14:22.16 | _buz | but 350EUR is crazy |
| 14:22.37 | ewon | I've been drinking with Alan Cox before, apart from his penchant for wearing bright red hats, he's a pretty cool guy |
| 14:22.41 | Dvalin | ewon: no, I know they're not that bad, and it's mostly not even intentional |
| 14:23.12 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0C450.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:23.12 | mosno | redhat do pretty damn well from an ethics pov |
| 14:23.26 | mosno | compare suse, caldera (!), etc. |
| 14:23.32 | balrog-kun | ewon: afaik redhat's aiming for the opposite |
| 14:23.33 | ewon | heh, caldera |
| 14:23.33 | mosno | s/suse/novell |
| 14:23.37 | Dvalin | also I'm having a hard time believing redhat rpm vs jbj rpm is not related to NIH |
| 14:23.58 | mosno | jbj? |
| 14:23.59 | ewon | I try to stay out of the poltical side of Linux |
| 14:24.05 | ewon | I used What Works(TM) |
| 14:24.06 | Dvalin | ie. rh & novell is the only ones who aren't using jbj rpm |
| 14:24.06 | ewon | *use |
| 14:24.17 | ewon | hence, I use Debian most of the time :) |
| 14:24.25 | drath | hehehe |
| 14:24.25 | Dvalin | mosno: jeff b. johnson, rpm author, rh ex-employee |
| 14:24.46 | drath | friend of mine keeps telling me to use suse... but then he works there, so his opinion might be biased |
| 14:24.48 | _buz | 260$ for treo 650 on ebay |
| 14:24.50 | Kero | debian is very political :) |
| 14:25.05 | ewon | sure it is, but I have nothing to do with it :) |
| 14:25.12 | Kero | true (same here) |
| 14:25.13 | mosno | http://www.redhat.com/archives/fedora-advisory-board/2006-August/msg00108.html |
| 14:25.30 | Dvalin | Kero: letting bureuacracy getting in the way of actual technical achievements.. |
| 14:26.00 | Dvalin | no wonder ubuntu made success of forking debian and solve those problems.. |
| 14:26.02 | drath | have a look at Joomla to see what you get if you care too little about politics |
| 14:26.55 | Stephmw | mosno: interesting post |
| 14:27.03 | *** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 14:27.07 | mosno | Ubuntu haven't forked Debian per se |
| 14:27.21 | Dvalin | mosno: rpm didn't do anything on rpm after jbj left untill they started in december and there's has been very puny developments compared to jbj rpm, and most other rpm distros use jbj rpm.. |
| 14:27.26 | Dvalin | mosno: semantics |
| 14:27.35 | mosno | Dvalin: use what you like. i dont use either. |
| 14:27.57 | mosno | well, whatever Debian package in their rpm*.deb |
| 14:28.29 | mosno | Stephmw: thanks |
| 14:28.48 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:28.49 | mwester-laptop | _buz, if one looks hard, one can get a working treo 650 on ebay for less than $200 USD. |
| 14:29.04 | _buz | well for 240$ you can get brand new ones |
| 14:29.20 | _buz | i like the treo form factor |
| 14:29.24 | _buz | but not so much their hardware |
| 14:29.28 | mwester-laptop | The 680 and 700p are just not as good as the old 650 ;-) |
| 14:29.32 | _buz | (and the bloody antenna is so 1995) |
| 14:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-088-064-123-023.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:31.00 | mwester-laptop | I have hopes of replacing my 650 with a Neo some day... but you can't drop the neo on a conference room table -- it looks too much like a pool toy. !! |
| 14:31.15 | mwester-laptop | The Treos still look professional, even though they are dated. |
| 14:31.42 | SuN | They look... dated if you ask me. |
| 14:31.52 | summatusmentis | agreed |
| 14:32.00 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@pd956a57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:32.06 | summatusmentis | although, the neo doesn't look the most 'enterprise'y either |
| 14:32.14 | mwester-laptop | Mine looks both dated, and well-worn. |
| 14:32.17 | _buz | neo looks like a kids toy |
| 14:32.37 | _buz | once i get one, i might look into doing a custom case |
| 14:32.39 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__23 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-546746363b6b9922) |
| 14:32.56 | summatusmentis | _buz: then selling it right? |
| 14:33.01 | _buz | maybe |
| 14:33.06 | summatusmentis | :-D |
| 14:33.53 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi_ (n=cktakaha@189.13.152.180) |
| 14:34.08 | mwester-laptop | I suspect it'll be a while before the software is ready for that; by then hopefully someone will have a less "pool toy" looking version. |
| 14:34.11 | _buz | a good prototyping company would help |
| 14:34.51 | mwester-laptop | Until then, I'll be happy hacking on it whatever the case (although I sure hope they adequate quantities of any color except that orange!) |
| 14:34.52 | SuN | I think the available pictures overemphasize things though. |
| 14:34.59 | SuN | I bet it looks better in reality. |
| 14:35.19 | summatusmentis | SuN: have you seen the flickr pictures taken? |
| 14:35.25 | summatusmentis | it doesn't look terrible |
| 14:35.33 | _buz | weird in any case |
| 14:35.51 | ewon | in fact, my boss gives me abuse for wearing shirts to work |
| 14:36.07 | summatusmentis | ewon: what in the world do you do? |
| 14:36.40 | _buz | who would wear shirts voluntarily??? |
| 14:36.42 | mwester-laptop | ewon, I find that the suits have money. Therefore, despite my own misgivings about wearing a suit, there is some reason to sit at a conference table with them :-D |
| 14:37.24 | _buz | and they generally dislike the idea of giving money to non suits |
| 14:37.28 | _buz | hence you need a suit too |
| 14:37.39 | ewon | summatusmentis: I'm a C++ coder, I work in the games industry |
| 14:37.51 | summatusmentis | and they don't care if you wear a shirt? |
| 14:37.55 | raster | personally i have found that level of clue/smartness etc. is inversely proportional to how fgormal a "suit" people wear |
| 14:37.59 | ewon | most of them wear t shirts |
| 14:38.00 | raster | the more dressed up they are |
| 14:38.02 | ewon | half of them barefoot |
| 14:38.05 | mwester-laptop | Suit lesson #1: do NOT take a Nokia cell phone to a meeting with Motorola suits. (Don't ask me how I learned this lesson, though!) |
| 14:38.08 | raster | the less the chance of there being solid clue |
| 14:38.24 | ewon | I find it easier to get into "work mode" if I wear a shirt |
| 14:38.29 | raster | other than that - i think its quite silly to focus on what you wear |
| 14:38.29 | ewon | guess that's due to my time with IBM |
| 14:38.34 | raster | when your job is not client-facing |
| 14:38.40 | koen | mwester-laptop: or have the operator logo in your phone when visiting their competitor |
| 14:39.00 | koen | mwester-laptop: that cost an accounting firm their contract with the biggest telco in .nl |
| 14:39.03 | _buz | for some reason, people seem to be more friendly when you walk around in a suit |
| 14:39.12 | raster | mwester-laptop: take a neo1973 :) |
| 14:39.12 | _buz | not that i terribly care for them being friendly |
| 14:39.22 | Stephmw | mwester-laptop: yeah, some people are just too anal |
| 14:39.28 | ewon | I've found people assume your a Senior Person(tm) if you wear a shirt |
| 14:39.36 | ewon | can be useful for getting people to do your bidding :) |
| 14:39.41 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE09C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:39.47 | ewon | *you're |
| 14:39.51 | mwester-laptop | raster: there are some non-suits there who would very much love to see the Neo for real... I will be bringing it in when I get one. |
| 14:39.54 | *** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 14:40.00 | *** part/#openmoko disguy__23 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-546746363b6b9922) |
| 14:40.28 | raster | ewon: i find smiling and asking nicely works |
| 14:41.04 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 14:41.20 | Elleo | http://blog.mikeasoft.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/treo-openmoko.jpg :) |
| 14:43.01 | ewon | Elleo: nice |
| 14:43.27 | _buz | somehow, i expect rapid prototyping cases to be hideously expensive |
| 14:43.33 | raster | mwester-laptop: dicing with death! :) |
| 14:44.09 | SpeedEvil | Naah. |
| 14:44.16 | SpeedEvil | Really cheap. |
| 14:44.53 | _buz | somehow i doubt that a steel case would do much good to rf |
| 14:45.09 | SpeedEvil | Meh. |
| 14:45.31 | summatusmentis | Elleo: that's cool |
| 14:45.36 | SpeedEvil | That's what the external head-mounted antenna is for. |
| 14:45.40 | SpeedEvil | There are four options. |
| 14:45.48 | SpeedEvil | Tinky Winky, Dipsy, Lala and Po. |
| 14:45.52 | Elleo | going to have a go at hacking support for the treo's gsm chip in to gsmd when I get some more free time |
| 14:45.52 | _buz | wood might work |
| 14:46.09 | _buz | and is comparably easy to deal with |
| 14:46.18 | _buz | it wouldmake for a thick phone though |
| 14:46.22 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: I fail to see what the teletubbies have anything to do w/ the neo? |
| 14:46.32 | _buz | teletubbies have antenna |
| 14:46.32 | summatusmentis | oh, hrr.. nvm |
| 14:46.35 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: head mounted antenna for a steel cased neo. |
| 14:46.49 | summatusmentis | yeah, I'm terrible at life today. minimal sleep last night |
| 14:46.57 | summatusmentis | nvm, just ignore me :-) |
| 14:46.58 | SpeedEvil | Wood has problems though. |
| 14:47.08 | SpeedEvil | It is _Very_ soft. |
| 14:47.12 | ewon | and she compiles \o/ |
| 14:47.15 | SpeedEvil | (comparatively) |
| 14:47.18 | _buz | that depends on the wood really |
| 14:47.21 | SpeedEvil | (to metal) |
| 14:47.27 | SpeedEvil | At least the finish is. |
| 14:47.31 | _buz | yeah |
| 14:47.37 | _buz | but metal is not interesting |
| 14:47.42 | _buz | polymers are |
| 14:47.44 | SpeedEvil | If you expect a nice glossy waterproof surface, then wood is hard to do. |
| 14:47.58 | _buz | i DONT want glossy |
| 14:48.06 | *** join/#openmoko ignas (n=ignas@office.pov.lt) |
| 14:48.10 | _buz | ideally i would want softtouch plastic |
| 14:48.14 | SpeedEvil | If you accept that it will mark and have usage marks, then oiled wood works very well. |
| 14:48.31 | _buz | yeah but you need thick walls for it to be stable |
| 14:48.45 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D9393.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:49.24 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 14:50.48 | _buz | ideally you'd have a very rigid internal case and a soft outer case |
| 14:50.49 | AntonTakk | ooh, buildhost is back up |
| 14:51.11 | SpeedEvil | _buz: Talk to the nice people at realdoll! |
| 14:51.34 | _buz | never seen one in real, but i imagine that would do ;) |
| 14:51.48 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484FFE2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:51.55 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@pd956a57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@20132173149.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 14:52.24 | sixfeet | re |
| 14:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:53.15 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE09C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 14:53.29 | mwester-laptop | ewon: very nice indeed! (If I didn't rely on my Treo for everything, I'd be interested in trying that!) |
| 14:53.59 | SpeedEvil | Is the Treo modem an 'external' or a 'winmodem' ? |
| 14:55.34 | Elleo | SpeedEvil: it's a chip that runs independant of the OS |
| 14:55.39 | SpeedEvil | K |
| 14:55.49 | Elleo | you can send AT commands to it, although you have to do a little fiddling to get it in to AT mode |
| 14:55.49 | SpeedEvil | That's not so bad. |
| 14:55.56 | Elleo | (PalmOS talks to it in a binary mode) |
| 14:56.13 | SpeedEvil | The 'winGSM' ones may be nearly impossible to get working. |
| 14:56.24 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention illegal to do in some places. |
| 14:56.29 | ewanm89_laptop | Will openmoko/oe work without psyco (to compile it). |
| 14:57.03 | Elleo | ewanm89_laptop: as far as I know psyco just speeds up bitbake somewhat |
| 14:57.11 | Elleo | but it'll work find without it |
| 14:57.31 | ewanm89_laptop | Elleo: Thanks, as I thought, psyco doesn't work on 64bit. |
| 14:57.41 | Elleo | ah, right |
| 14:58.08 | AntonTakk | ewanm89_laptop: you don't have 32 bit libs installed? |
| 14:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 15:01.28 | ewanm89_laptop | AntonTakk: You have to compile the python interpreter in 32bit for 32bit compatibility too, (which I do not want to do for other reasons). |
| 15:04.27 | SpeedEvil | I note that sparkfun sells AT commandable GSM modems. |
| 15:04.48 | SpeedEvil | Are there any AT commandable 3G/... modules sold anywhere in ones? |
| 15:06.10 | ewon | any superwaba heads awakw? |
| 15:06.14 | ewon | *awake |
| 15:06.47 | summatusmentis | the superwaba gnomes haven't deemed you worthy |
| 15:07.00 | ewon | it appears so. |
| 15:07.35 | ewon | it appears the superwaba vm uses a bytecode spec that's older than death |
| 15:07.57 | AntonTakk | oh, neat, it chooses what icons to put on the main menu by usage |
| 15:08.28 | *** join/#openmoko DynWind (n=vikas@zresearch.com) |
| 15:08.52 | ignas | what is the shortest path to getting an OpenMoko helloworld running on an ubuntu box? |
| 15:09.30 | parag0n | http://blog.mikeasoft.com/2007/07/01/openmoko-on-a-treo-650/ |
| 15:09.55 | ignas | I am trying MokoMakefile but i am not sure i need all that stuff to just try developing a small gtk app |
| 15:11.13 | AntonTakk | ignas: the wiki covers getting openmoko running in emus, and i believe you also need to setup OpenEmbedded |
| 15:11.34 | ignas | MokoMakefile is doing that just now |
| 15:12.03 | ignas | the wiki covers more than one different option and i am not sure how they relate one to another |
| 15:12.40 | ignas | QEMU, MokoMakefile, Xoo, Xephyr and OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC :/ |
| 15:13.21 | AntonTakk | qemu - emulates the neo1973's hardware and runs openmoko on it |
| 15:13.38 | AntonTakk | xoo ans xephyr are other EMUs |
| 15:13.56 | AntonTakk | open moko on pc is just that |
| 15:14.02 | AntonTakk | compiling it all for pc |
| 15:14.47 | ignas | so it seems that apps on a pc should be the one with least dependencies |
| 15:15.01 | ignas | but it starts at: Set up the environment |
| 15:15.20 | ignas | without any explanation where should i get the "<svn-checkout>/src/target/OM-2007" from |
| 15:15.33 | balrog-kun | technically one of (or both) Xoo and Xephys, i don't remember which, is not an emulator, but that's just semantics |
| 15:16.03 | ignas | i think they are just 2 different ways of running a nested Xserver for openmoko applications running on a PC |
| 15:16.08 | AntonTakk | balrog-kun: ah, i had never heard of either until last night, so :) |
| 15:16.18 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Advertising/hype |
| 15:16.28 | balrog-kun | ignas: right, that's why |
| 15:17.03 | galexande | for most apps, it's not too unsatisfying to develop it in a regular PC environment |
| 15:17.07 | galexande | (imho) |
| 15:17.17 | ignas | yep, but how do i set one up? |
| 15:17.43 | ignas | OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC instructions start somewhere where i have something set up already... |
| 15:18.17 | *** join/#openmoko `k (i=glitch@lambda.cultofray.net) |
| 15:18.18 | galexande | i don't know anything about the openmoko apps :) I assumed you were developing from scratch |
| 15:18.35 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-b1f6dc381e8bd628) |
| 15:18.41 | galexande | I'm so excited about the possibility of totally not using any openmoko UI elements |
| 15:19.42 | DynWind | I'm so excited about the phone itself, and have been for months. Too much excitement :| |
| 15:19.45 | ignas | i am the lazy type - the less i have to do myself, the more time i can spend doing something i want to |
| 15:19.49 | DynWind | ;) |
| 15:19.59 | galexande | i'm so fortunate to have only learned about it a couple weeks before release |
| 15:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.39.143) |
| 15:20.47 | raster | having a special version of gtk for moko app dev is sucky :( |
| 15:20.55 | raster | must fix... |
| 15:21.39 | galexande | raster, special in what way? |
| 15:21.54 | raster | needing extra widgets |
| 15:22.02 | raster | i guess they come from extra libs... |
| 15:22.08 | AntonTakk | i wonder how dificult it would be to create a mobile-friendly ui for pidgin |
| 15:22.13 | galexande | oh yeah, like the finger stuff |
| 15:22.16 | raster | thats mostly maemo stuff that needs a really specialised gtk |
| 15:22.33 | galexande | maybe i should make my lcars hack on top of gtk, i think it contains most of the same graphical elements as a finger ui |
| 15:22.59 | raster | AntonTakk: the problem is mostly in the typing |
| 15:23.09 | raster | and that means a mobile friendly vkbd |
| 15:23.17 | raster | right now mokos vkbd is not very friendly |
| 15:23.34 | galexande | maemo is for the nokia770? |
| 15:23.41 | raster | 770/800 |
| 15:23.42 | raster | yes |
| 15:23.54 | raster | we need to bridge some gaps |
| 15:24.01 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 15:24.05 | raster | and make sure maemo and openmoko do not diverge too much |
| 15:24.18 | raster | they should at least remain as compatible as possible for normal windowed apps |
| 15:24.24 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon_II (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
| 15:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 15:24.36 | AntonTakk | raster: true, that's actually my single biggest gripe with the neo, no reasonably useable (with fingers) keyboard, unfortunately, i'm not much of a programmer |
| 15:25.00 | raster | AntonTakk: i am actually struggling to think of how u can have a usable kbd on the screen of the neo |
| 15:25.09 | raster | well one that u can use with thumbs/fingers |
| 15:25.12 | galexande | i developed a stupid little pda input program, but "reasonably usable" is always a compromise |
| 15:25.14 | raster | the screen is so small |
| 15:25.46 | raster | i think -on a god day |
| 15:25.51 | raster | you can fit 5 buttons hotizontally |
| 15:26.01 | raster | that u have a chance of pressing right with your thumbs or fingers |
| 15:26.16 | raster | maybe 2 or 3 rows of these at best |
| 15:26.21 | raster | 4 if u make the kbd really tall |
| 15:26.21 | AntonTakk | raster: my initial thoughts was use the accelerometer(s) (in the final version) and display a larger on screen kbd in appropriate areas when it is flipped on it's side |
| 15:26.21 | summatusmentis | raster: so... landscape? |
| 15:26.24 | galexande | it takes some training but i can be almost as good with my fingernail as with the stylus |
| 15:26.26 | raster | thats still not even the alphabet |
| 15:26.39 | raster | summatusmentis: doesnt matter |
| 15:26.41 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 15:26.43 | raster | then u get fewer rows |
| 15:26.47 | ignas | who needs full alphabet, alternative input methods FTW |
| 15:26.48 | ignas | ;) |
| 15:26.49 | galexande | have you all seen xstroke? graffiti-like on X, and plays well with matchbox |
| 15:26.49 | ewon | a slide out keyboard like the HTC one would do the job |
| 15:27.00 | ewon | although it's too late for such a large change to GTA02 |
| 15:27.06 | raster | galexande: some peole like draweing |
| 15:27.07 | raster | but |
| 15:27.10 | raster | it requres a stylus |
| 15:27.20 | galexande | nah i do it with my fingernail all the time :) |
| 15:27.20 | summatusmentis | I'd much prefer something as 'finger-oriented' as possible |
| 15:27.22 | raster | also i think there is a genral trend away from handwriting inpuit |
| 15:27.25 | raster | as its complex |
| 15:27.26 | AntonTakk | raster: with a line or two for text entry/editing |
| 15:27.29 | raster | and generally inaccurate |
| 15:27.37 | raster | note that palm have moved to kbd's |
| 15:27.49 | raster | on most pdas and phones if they support handwriting |
| 15:27.51 | galexande | yeah...i don't know about you, though, i'm bucking the trend away from running shells on phones :) |
| 15:27.51 | raster | at all |
| 15:28.00 | raster | it is normally a secondary input now |
| 15:28.15 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 15:28.36 | galexande | between all the input strategies, it's like 20wpm vs 18wpm, painful |
| 15:29.22 | raster | there has to be a better way |
| 15:29.24 | DynWind | just carry a USB keyboard around :P |
| 15:29.25 | galexande | i'm dreaming of hooking a keyboard up to mine, and training myself to be able to read 80x25 at 285dpi :) |
| 15:29.33 | SpeedEvil | IMO - finger letter entry has a place. |
| 15:29.44 | ignas | are sources of the keypad available in the development package? |
| 15:29.49 | raster | galexande: reading a terminal of 80x60 or so |
| 15:29.52 | raster | on the neo is eays |
| 15:29.55 | raster | its the input |
| 15:30.07 | galexande | hahaha awesome, i'm excited then |
| 15:30.09 | SpeedEvil | For example - I'm interested in position independant glyph entry. |
| 15:30.16 | raster | i think the neo will need something closer to a normal numberpad input |
| 15:30.18 | ignas | you press the number |
| 15:30.19 | SpeedEvil | Where you can enter a glyph anywhere on the display. |
| 15:30.22 | raster | where u just have fewer buttons on screen |
| 15:30.23 | ignas | and drag up or down |
| 15:30.28 | raster | and need to press them multiple times |
| 15:30.30 | SpeedEvil | ratehr than having to press potentially small buttons. |
| 15:30.31 | ignas | until the letter you need is selected |
| 15:30.34 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 15:30.38 | raster | and have a guesser based on dictionaries |
| 15:30.39 | galexande | speed, have you played with xstroke? |
| 15:30.49 | SpeedEvil | galexande: no |
| 15:31.37 | galexande | ignas, if i understand you correctly, that's how my input works... it shows you a 3x3 grid, and you click on one grid element (category) and it shows you another set, and you drag to where you want in teh second set and release and iyou get a keypress |
| 15:31.49 | galexande | speed, it's like palm graffiti, but you can draw anywhere on the screen |
| 15:31.55 | galexande | and it shows you what you're drawing as you draw it |
| 15:31.59 | SpeedEvil | galexande: basically the same idea. |
| 15:32.10 | koen | that's not how xstroke works |
| 15:32.12 | SpeedEvil | galexande: I have wacky thoughts about extending it for whole words. |
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| 15:32.33 | raster | maybe we just need multiple input keyboards |
| 15:32.39 | ignas | galexande: you mean like pie mouse gestures? |
| 15:32.39 | raster | and people just choose their favorite |
| 15:32.40 | raster | :) |
| 15:32.46 | koen | it segments a stroke in a 3x3 grid and tracks the sequence of grid activations |
| 15:32.47 | raster | the joys of open and choice |
| 15:32.48 | raster | :) |
| 15:32.50 | galexande | speed, that might really be enough to make it practical, but it'd be hard because if it misses a letter in the middle of the word, you don't want to reenter the whole word |
| 15:33.04 | dcordes | what is the difference between Neo Base and Neo Advanced? |
| 15:33.14 | SpeedEvil | It's nothing to do with letter. |
| 15:33.16 | raster | dcordes: basically debugging boards/utilities |
| 15:33.23 | galexande | koen, yeah, i was actually inspired from reading xstroke code, but i decided to make it explicit, so everything is from one grid coordinate to another, rather than a complicated path through several |
| 15:33.32 | galexande | and i think xstroke has newer recognition strategies which are somewhat less 'simple' |
| 15:33.45 | koen | galexande: have a look at matchbox-stroke, that's a re-implementation of xstroke |
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| 15:33.52 | galexande | ignas, pie mouse? |
| 15:34.00 | raster | tghe problem is things like xstroke rely on interpreting strokes that may aslo be drags of a scrollbar |
| 15:34.02 | raster | or other things |
| 15:34.06 | ignas | "pie menu" thingie |
| 15:34.06 | galexande | koen, will do thanks |
| 15:34.11 | SpeedEvil | galexande: I mean basically instead of 26 (ish) glyphs - you may have a few hundred, with an extra stroke or two |
| 15:34.20 | galexande | i lost track of matchbox development before this new shared-lib based panel came out, i'm excited to see how that works too |
| 15:34.26 | SpeedEvil | And hints if you stall on devices |
| 15:34.34 | ignas | galexande: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pie_menu |
| 15:34.37 | empty_mind | does openmoko has handwriting recognition ? |
| 15:34.47 | raster | no |
| 15:34.52 | dcordes | raster, is it possible to flash the device without those debugging stuff? |
| 15:34.59 | raster | dcordes: yes |
| 15:35.00 | galexande | speed, i think there's a standard shortahand used by like court recorders, i bet making a stroke app for that would be real useful for people that already know it :) |
| 15:35.02 | SpeedEvil | stall in the middle of a glyph |
| 15:35.05 | raster | u can flahs kernel and rootfs safely |
| 15:35.12 | raster | if u want to reflash the bootloader (uboot) |
| 15:35.14 | raster | you can too |
| 15:35.17 | cworth | raster: The "recognize vs. scrollbar" thing is pretty easy to deal with, actually. |
| 15:35.18 | raster | but if that goes wrong |
| 15:35.19 | empty_mind | w00t!! no handwriting recognition :-( |
| 15:35.26 | raster | you will be in trouble without the jtag debugging board |
| 15:35.38 | raster | cworth: well its a heuristic |
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| 15:35.54 | raster | cworth: now when u can scroll just by click and drag on your list... |
| 15:35.56 | ignas | can't OpenMoko just copy the iPhone keyboard? ;) |
| 15:36.00 | raster | anywhere on the screen |
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| 15:36.02 | galexande | raster, thanks i was wondering that same question (re flashing uboot) |
| 15:36.03 | raster | what is a swcroll |
| 15:36.06 | raster | and what is a stroke? |
| 15:36.07 | raster | :) |
| 15:36.07 | cworth | raster: Just keep scrollbars near the edges and make sure there's a property on them that informs the recognizer "don't do recognition for drags starting on this widget". |
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| 15:36.16 | raster | cworth: sure |
| 15:36.26 | raster | but now u assume scrollabrs/regions/gadgets are on the sides |
| 15:36.32 | raster | whihc may not be the case |
| 15:36.36 | cworth | raster: Oh sure, if you want to do click-and-drag in the middle of the list, then it's different. |
| 15:36.42 | raster | yeah |
| 15:36.59 | raster | i was just gwettign to the "if u have "xstroke" it takes way other otions for usability |
| 15:37.03 | raster | or makes them more complicated |
| 15:37.06 | raster | at any rate |
| 15:37.11 | cworth | raster: Well, rather than an assumption, I meant that one could design an entire system geared toward full-screen recognition. |
| 15:37.19 | ignas | palm has the option tu turn on/off the full screen stroke handling iirc |
| 15:37.24 | raster | sure |
| 15:37.26 | galexande | wow ignas it's kind of like pie menus...i think pie menus have a lot more things thought out, i like it. |
| 15:37.28 | raster | can do that |
| 15:38.39 | galexande | heh, does the neo really not have a "d-pad"? |
| 15:38.56 | SpeedEvil | galexande: no |
| 15:38.57 | raster | actually |
| 15:38.58 | raster | it doesnt |
| 15:39.06 | SpeedEvil | galexande: two buttons. |
| 15:39.11 | SpeedEvil | And the touchscreen is it. |
| 15:39.11 | raster | its very lean on the buttons depaertment |
| 15:39.39 | galexande | thinking outside the box :) |
| 15:39.56 | SpeedEvil | I'm thinking of adding hardware buttons. |
| 15:40.15 | ignas | as for stylus editing - would it be possible to run dasher on neo? |
| 15:40.19 | raster | maybe just make more of the surface "touchable" |
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| 15:40.23 | raster | like the front face |
| 15:40.25 | raster | back face |
| 15:40.27 | raster | sides |
| 15:40.28 | raster | etc. |
| 15:40.37 | raster | make every face a little flexible |
| 15:40.39 | raster | so if u press |
| 15:40.43 | raster | it goes "click" |
| 15:40.50 | SpeedEvil | That's not really practical. |
| 15:40.51 | raster | as some "buttons" live inder every face |
| 15:40.58 | raster | and the screen too |
| 15:41.09 | SpeedEvil | However, being able to sense touches on the case is plausible. |
| 15:41.15 | SpeedEvil | Though with no feeling. |
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| 15:41.30 | SpeedEvil | Especially in a limited number - say 32 places |
| 15:41.37 | raster | imagine |
| 15:41.38 | raster | the screen |
| 15:41.45 | SpeedEvil | The screen is a touchscreen |
| 15:41.50 | raster | was sitting on a layer of "buttons" |
| 15:41.54 | raster | or just a single button |
| 15:41.58 | SpeedEvil | The screen is a touchscreen |
| 15:41.58 | raster | when u press the screen a bit |
| 15:42.01 | raster | it goes "click" |
| 15:42.03 | raster | like any button |
| 15:42.06 | galexande | ignas, dasher is open source so if the answer today is no, tomorrow it would be yes. :) |
| 15:42.08 | SpeedEvil | It's made of glass. |
| 15:42.18 | raster | so now a touych can at least have some kind of tactile feedback? |
| 15:42.18 | SpeedEvil | So you can only press the four corners at most |
| 15:43.07 | ignas | by the way - the screen is multi touch or only single touch? |
| 15:43.11 | SpeedEvil | single |
| 15:45.08 | Basheri | and it can't be changed by software side changes? |
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| 15:45.40 | Basheri | (a.k.a. it's a hardware "problem" and not software) |
| 15:45.44 | galexande | ignas, it looks like dasher requires only gtk+, so i imagine it would be trivial to run it on the neo |
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| 15:46.04 | galexande | though it doesn't mention matchbox, it might take a little hacking to really be convenient in that environment |
| 15:46.04 | ignas | galexande: i see |
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| 15:47.15 | galexande | the thing about touch screens that people forget is that you can press a button smaller than your finger is wide, because even though you touch a large area of the screen, the touchscreen (hopefully) only registers a single point in the center of your finger |
| 15:47.16 | Tjikkun | ignas: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000576.html |
| 15:47.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Battery_Charger]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] [[FAQ]] |
| 15:47.40 | galexande | so i bet with a little practice you could use your finger on the keyboard |
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| 15:49.48 | AntonTakk | galexande: true |
| 15:49.57 | AntonTakk | hrm |
| 15:49.57 | ignas | Tjikkun: thanks |
| 15:50.12 | SpeedEvil | galexande: in theory. |
| 15:50.25 | AntonTakk | i can run a terminal in the vm running openmoko, but see no way to enter text, and the keyboard doesn't seem to do the trick |
| 15:50.36 | SpeedEvil | galexande: the problem is the resultant point when you press an area is not very defined |
| 15:51.15 | SpeedEvil | And it's hard to see where you're pointing unless you have very controlled finger orientation |
| 15:51.33 | galexande | speed, yeoah, i think you can train to it, but it is certainly touchy |
| 15:52.07 | Basheri | I demand more videos of neo running! |
| 15:52.08 | Basheri | :D |
| 15:52.19 | ignas | so iphone screen is a bit larger, but with resolution twice as low? |
| 15:52.31 | raster | galexande: true |
| 15:52.32 | raster | but |
| 15:52.40 | raster | it becomes less accurate the smaller the button |
| 15:52.45 | raster | so if the butotn is about afinger in size |
| 15:52.46 | raster | its ok |
| 15:52.48 | raster | as it gets smaller |
| 15:52.55 | raster | you have less chaznce of getting the press right |
| 15:54.08 | AntonTakk | raster: thou that could be helped some by an auto-correcting spell checker, or even a popup menu for correcting manually |
| 15:55.07 | raster | yup |
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| 15:55.16 | raster | i would assume that as a requirement actually |
| 15:55.28 | raster | partly because of typose and hitting the wrong key |
| 15:55.38 | raster | but probably more because a lot of people can't spell! :) |
| 15:58.01 | ignas | galexande: hmm, i'd still go for - 9/12 buttons, and the character changes depending on how far you drag away from the press point |
| 15:58.19 | ignas | of course with open source phone it's - "one who writes the code - makes the rules" ;) |
| 15:58.43 | raster | ighn that seems like an interesting idea |
| 15:58.54 | raster | making use of drags and not just presses |
| 15:59.06 | galexande | ignas, i'm totally adjusting my input program to play with pie menu-inspired designs :) |
| 15:59.19 | galexande | i'm also going to learn how fun dragging is with finger instead of fingernail |
| 15:59.21 | ignas | raster: differently from button presses you can go back |
| 15:59.25 | ignas | not just forward |
| 15:59.44 | raster | yup |
| 15:59.48 | ignas | so if you drag "ABC" - after hitting "C" you can just drag closer to "ABC" and get B |
| 16:00.16 | raster | and the drag can be exaggerated |
| 16:00.26 | raster | so your drag needs to actually go futher than to "c" |
| 16:00.43 | raster | add in prediction with a dictionary |
| 16:00.44 | raster | and matches |
| 16:00.50 | raster | and u are probably not too bad |
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| 16:01.32 | ignas | now if only someone would try it out on a live phone ;) |
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| 16:02.16 | raster | this is where community and open development probably will kick serious booty |
| 16:02.21 | raster | being able to try out crazy new ideas |
| 16:02.25 | raster | and have poelp actually try it |
| 16:02.30 | raster | before its "set in stone" |
| 16:02.32 | raster | in a product |
| 16:02.35 | raster | and refine it |
| 16:02.38 | raster | even include multiple ideas |
| 16:02.44 | raster | if 1 size does not fit all |
| 16:02.48 | raster | include multipel sizes |
| 16:02.48 | raster | :) |
| 16:02.59 | ignas | maybe, my experience is - you get 10x times suggestions than developing time |
| 16:03.09 | raster | yup |
| 16:03.10 | madewokherd | also not locking people out of phones helps |
| 16:03.10 | ignas | and more people are expecting features than implementing them |
| 16:03.12 | raster | worse actually |
| 16:03.29 | raster | but then its not a matter of locking out development |
| 16:03.31 | raster | or ideas |
| 16:03.36 | raster | its ONLY sa matter of demand and supply |
| 16:03.37 | raster | ie |
| 16:03.41 | raster | demand for 100 features |
| 16:03.45 | raster | supply can only create 2 |
| 16:03.51 | raster | :( |
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| 16:09.15 | galexande | i don't know if i'm useful as a programmer, i tend to write everything to run in exactly my environment. it's rare that anyone else ever gets it to build :) |
| 16:09.42 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:12.03 | Basheri | same here =) |
| 16:12.56 | Basheri | (but i'm definately not even ok programmer, so it doesn't matter, since no one misses anything) |
| 16:16.51 | AntonTakk | any place i can get a list of the features of the apps included in openmoko? |
| 16:17.42 | galexande | feature #1: full source code to everything. feature #2: permission to tear it down and rebuild |
| 16:17.47 | galexande | what more could you want to know? :) |
| 16:17.54 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi_ (n=cktakaha@189.13.173.30) |
| 16:18.24 | AntonTakk | specifically (at the moment) if there is caldav support in the calendar app |
| 16:19.15 | galexande | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Calendar |
| 16:19.38 | galexande | it kind of looks to me like the sort of thing i write before i start writing the app, so, maybe it doesn't even exist yet? |
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| 16:21.45 | koen | it uses evolution-data-server as backend, so it can do anything evo can do |
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| 16:23.00 | AntonTakk | koen: thanks |
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| 16:25.25 | Basheri | looks cool |
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| 16:50.16 | Moo^^ | what kind of storage backend openmoko contacts-app uses? |
| 16:50.52 | koen | Moo^^: why should we help you if you are too lazy to spend 2 minutes googling? |
| 16:51.12 | Elrond | Did anyone try a stock GtkSpinButton on the Neo? It seems foobar'd for me :-( |
| 16:51.31 | AntonTakk | gtkspinbutton? |
| 16:51.37 | Elrond | Yes. |
| 16:51.54 | AntonTakk | i'm not a dev, and you describe it? |
| 16:52.10 | zecke_ | Elrond: foobared as in theming? |
| 16:52.30 | Moo^^ | koen: because it takes 2 second to answer the question |
| 16:52.34 | Moo^^ | :) |
| 16:52.37 | Moo^^ | I already googled |
| 16:52.46 | koen | google harder |
| 16:53.00 | koen | you don't have a support contract with us, so stop wasting our time |
| 16:53.13 | Elrond | zecke_ - Right. |
| 16:53.24 | koen | you haven't made a reasonable effort byh yourself, so we don't return the favor |
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| 16:53.30 | Moo^^ | embedded eds |
| 16:53.48 | koen | see, it wasn't that hard |
| 16:53.56 | Moo^^ | koen: you don't need to be rude. I am interested in this project and I like to develop for OpenMoko as soon as I get P1 device. |
| 16:54.05 | koen | and now you learned a new skill called 'searching' |
| 16:54.09 | Moo^^ | koen: If you don't want to answer please don't attack against me |
| 16:54.23 | ravan | anyone else with a ----> Could not add USB device 'gadget:1' |
| 16:54.31 | zell1983 | Moo^^, this is not the best way to start :) |
| 16:54.32 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 16:54.46 | koen | if you are too lazy to mak a reasonable effort, stop insulting us by wasting our time |
| 16:54.58 | Moo^^ | koen: I will |
| 16:55.03 | Basheri | omg |
| 16:56.00 | zecke_ | Elrond: can be, if you have used the theme on the desktop you will find a couple of unthemed states, widgets |
| 16:56.20 | ravan | stat /dev/gadget/udc works |
| 16:56.30 | ravan | *dummy_udc |
| 16:57.04 | Elrond | zecke_ - Hmm, I just ran a spinbutton example... which worked, so I start to believe, that it's some size allocation problem... |
| 16:58.10 | SpeedEvil | Moo^^: You also serve the project by being a target for working off frustrations on :) |
| 16:58.20 | Basheri | koen: you wasted much more time by attacking when you could've just ignored him =) |
| 16:58.34 | Moo^^ | zell1983: this is not either best way to build open source community. I spend few minutes googling until I poked aroudn openmoko wiki few more minutes to find the answer. someone possessing this information could have typed the answer "EDS" in 0.3 seconds. Instead, being flamed as lazy really demotivates people to participant. They too, are spending their free time and share the open source goals and want to push the project forward. |
| 16:58.50 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 16:59.03 | SpeedEvil | IMO - ignore if you're not willing to spend the time answering. |
| 16:59.24 | koen | people that don't search but ask aren't going to be developers or usefull in any other kind |
| 16:59.34 | Basheri | omg |
| 16:59.41 | koen | they're the kind of trolls you find on mailinglists and IRC |
| 16:59.57 | SpeedEvil | Treat them well and they may come back in October and bring their friends. |
| 17:00.16 | unknown_lamer | koen: flamebait flamebait flamebait |
| 17:00.24 | koen | their friends asking the same questions again and again? |
| 17:00.32 | zecke_ | koen: take your medication or be cruel to your pet |
| 17:00.35 | SpeedEvil | Buying. |
| 17:00.47 | ignas | koen: you can treat people that won't really contribute much as "people who won't contribute much" or as "potential customers" |
| 17:00.56 | Basheri | i'm not a developer... maybe i'm not too good to be in the same channel that you're in |
| 17:01.45 | koen | I'm not a developer either |
| 17:01.50 | Basheri | well, guess it's wrong to be interested in the project =) |
| 17:02.00 | Moo^^ | anyways, this dicussion should not really take place here, since it has really negative tone and we could, for example, talk about the technical merits of Embedded Evolution Data Server |
| 17:02.04 | Moo^^ | ^_^ |
| 17:02.29 | Basheri | yeh, i just hate elitists |
| 17:02.32 | unknown_lamer | It better support multiple backends |
| 17:02.38 | unknown_lamer | if it can't read my bbdb ... useless |
| 17:03.07 | unknown_lamer | (support here = 'could be written') |
| 17:03.26 | Moo^^ | I was wondering how easy it would build sync support for google account. This would be interesting from my point of view. |
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| 17:07.41 | galexande | i get about 10 wpm on my stroke program :( |
| 17:07.57 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 17:08.07 | SpeedEvil | It always seems faster in memory |
| 17:08.23 | SpeedEvil | In concept rather |
| 17:08.28 | ignas | galexande: can you use it without looking at the keyboard? |
| 17:08.29 | SpeedEvil | before reducing to practice. |
| 17:09.16 | galexande | ahahha ignas no |
| 17:10.53 | ignas | galexande: can you post some screenshots? |
| 17:11.01 | ignas | or are you running it on a phone? |
| 17:11.02 | galexande | i also get 10wpm with xstroke |
| 17:11.24 | galexande | i'm running it on my ipaq. i guess i ought to get one of those things to make mpegs out of X events |
| 17:14.59 | SpeedEvil | Or a webcam |
| 17:16.38 | galexande | yeah i'm tyring to make a youtube of it :) |
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| 17:17.06 | kiney | counter |
| 17:17.06 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-30T13:10) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week 18:42:53 (7.780±1.0 days) (1659;242) |
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| 17:48.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
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| 18:01.31 | *** part/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.57) |
| 18:02.23 | galexande | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LDDXEk0dwzU - introduction to gstroke (my grid-based input hack) |
| 18:04.30 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:04.39 | ignas | galexande: seems neat |
| 18:05.28 | galexande | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YzV9QTTB6ys - and that is xstroke |
| 18:07.20 | ignas | reminds me my "palm" |
| 18:07.55 | miip | me too |
| 18:07.57 | Basheri | cool |
| 18:08.38 | webjames | xchat has got crap, what happened to open this channel at start, and why do i now have to right click links and select open in browser?! |
| 18:09.08 | Basheri | irssi <3 |
| 18:09.56 | ewon | not bad |
| 18:10.06 | ewon | still prefer a slide out keyboard though :) |
| 18:10.20 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 18:10.59 | Basheri | buy a bluetooth keyboard and attach it to neo with some cool trick |
| 18:11.03 | Basheri | :D |
| 18:11.43 | ewon | no tricks needed, really. the neo has a built in bt transceiver, iirc |
| 18:12.16 | drath | it has |
| 18:12.18 | Basheri | i mean physically attach |
| 18:13.05 | mjr | I have this thingy: http://www.pocketnow.com/html/portal/reviews/0000000725/review/freedom%20mini%20keyboard%20with%20device.jpg |
| 18:14.01 | mjr | speaking of attaching |
| 18:14.08 | Basheri | ^^ |
| 18:17.57 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:19.47 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=ScaredyC@ACD1ECB7.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:20.08 | ScaredyCat | anyone in? |
| 18:21.05 | webjames | hello? |
| 18:21.11 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 18:21.15 | SpeedEvil | Just us chickens. |
| 18:21.22 | webjames | ScaredyCat, in what? |
| 18:23.12 | ScaredyCat | ! |
| 18:23.41 | ScaredyCat | having trouble getting the dev env set up |
| 18:24.25 | ScaredyCat | whcih I thought was fairly automated... |
| 18:24.29 | ScaredyCat | but seems not |
| 18:25.31 | *** join/#openmoko thomas (n=thomas@80.64.176.30) |
| 18:26.40 | ScaredyCat | checking gelf.h presence... no |
| 18:26.40 | ScaredyCat | | checking for gelf.h... no |
| 18:26.40 | ScaredyCat | | configure: error: ***** gelf.h not found ***** |
| 18:26.44 | ScaredyCat | wtf is gelf |
| 18:28.23 | ScaredyCat | g elf,.. |
| 18:28.42 | ignas | ScaredyCat: apt-get install libelf-dev ? |
| 18:29.26 | ignas | brought to you by "apt-file search gelf.h" |
| 18:32.32 | ravan | [11991.096000] dummy_udc dummy_udc: dequeued req dbdb6d00 from ep-c, len 4096 buf ceaa4000 |
| 18:32.45 | ravan | ^^^ make sense to anyone? |
| 18:33.53 | ravan | there are like thousands of those |
| 18:35.12 | ravan | in the output of dmesg |
| 18:35.58 | ravan | and the usb networking doesn't work even though both interfaces exist have proper addresses |
| 18:36.39 | balrog-kun | ravan: i see these messages too |
| 18:36.50 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@66.135.114.72) |
| 18:36.50 | balrog-kun | but it happends to work |
| 18:37.14 | ravan | balrog-kun: phew |
| 18:37.33 | balrog-kun | ravan: i think there has been no other userspace program before qemu using the gadgetfs since the actual merging of gadgetfs into Linux which happened in 2.5 |
| 18:38.09 | balrog-kun | i had to work around a couple of completely braindead ideas that gadgetfs has before it worked |
| 18:38.23 | ravan | like? |
| 18:38.57 | balrog-kun | like no way to know whether the host actually requested any IN transfer or not, |
| 18:39.14 | balrog-kun | you have to pump data whenever you haev any data available hoping that the host will make any use of it |
| 18:39.49 | balrog-kun | also, like assuming that all guests are high-speed USB2.0 if the host is |
| 18:40.07 | ravan | balrog-kun: how do i work around those issues? |
| 18:40.20 | balrog-kun | and different node names for each host |
| 18:40.39 | balrog-kun | ravan: qemu worked around them already, you don't need to do anything |
| 18:40.45 | ravan | :( |
| 18:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko thomas (n=thomas@80.64.176.30) |
| 18:41.42 | balrog-kun | so, do you have usb0 on both sides? |
| 18:41.58 | ravan | balrog-kun: yes, with ip addresses assigned |
| 18:42.11 | balrog-kun | did the guest dmesg have information on the CDC ethernet being enabled after you plugged it in? |
| 18:42.13 | ravan | but not able to ping either |
| 18:42.19 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:42.24 | balrog-kun | what are the IPs? |
| 18:42.38 | ravan | 192.168.0.200 and 202(neo) |
| 18:42.57 | balrog-kun | does ifconfig show any error/tx/rx/frame/overrun packets or all 0s? |
| 18:43.01 | ewon | woohoo, got superwaba running |
| 18:43.04 | ravan | dmesg is filled with the dequeued req messages |
| 18:43.14 | balrog-kun | ravan: the guest dmesg, not the host one |
| 18:44.05 | balrog-kun | it will probably be filled with battery measurements |
| 18:44.31 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-189-059.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:45.04 | ravan | balrog-kun: yes, the guest has a message saying "using CDC Ethernet" |
| 18:45.39 | balrog-kun | are you sure iptables is not blocking your pings? |
| 18:45.51 | ravan | ifconfig at guest shows 0 tx/rx/erros |
| 18:47.01 | ravan | balrog-kun: yes. even if i have iptables, i should be able to ping the target right? |
| 18:47.27 | balrog-kun | ravan: i don't know |
| 18:47.34 | balrog-kun | it depends on how you configured iptables |
| 18:47.54 | ravan | balrog-kun: no.. i can ping machines and i am pingable.. i have no firewall either |
| 18:48.12 | balrog-kun | ok |
| 18:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-189-059.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:49.43 | ravan | at the host i have RX packets:0 errors:1 dropped:0 overruns:0 frame:1 |
| 18:49.54 | balrog-kun | i don't know what it may be, however if the usb0 interface appeared on the host then any problems are not qemu related and would also exists with a real Neo |
| 18:51.05 | ravan | it did appear after i did a "usb_add gadget:1" |
| 18:51.38 | balrog-kun | ok, that's like plugging in the actual cable |
| 18:52.31 | balrog-kun | ravan: btw. what cured the 'gadgetfs: unknown filesystem'? |
| 18:52.47 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 18:52.54 | *** join/#openmoko lextul (n=thomas@80.64.176.30) |
| 18:53.51 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0E092.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:54.07 | ravan | balrog-kun: i had to custom compile a kernel with DUMMY_HDC support. it still didn't work. after adding a few hundred debugging expletives to vl.c and usb-linux-gadget.c i realised that qemu was still not building with gadgetfs support |
| 18:54.45 | ravan | balrog-kun: turns out the reason was that the headers in /usr/include/linux should also be updated to point to the new headers |
| 18:54.46 | balrog-kun | ah |
| 18:55.43 | ravan | where? |
| 18:56.03 | ravan | oh :( |
| 18:56.06 | ravan | just saw it |
| 18:56.12 | ravan | it wasn't in bold but |
| 18:57.27 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE09C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE09C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:58.11 | ravan | balrog-kun: btw, the configure script in qemu-neo1973 doesn't report whether or not gadgetfs support is being built |
| 18:59.16 | balrog-kun | ravan: knowing qemu users nobody reads the messages printed by configure anyway :p |
| 18:59.24 | ravan | ok.. time to sleep in my part of the world.. balrog-kun, thanks a lot for the help. will let you know if i can solve my latest problem |
| 18:59.32 | balrog-kun | ok, see you |
| 18:59.51 | ScaredyCat | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:59.52 | ScaredyCat | | configure: error: ***** gelf.h not found ***** |
| 18:59.53 | ScaredyCat | @catnip:/home/moko> locate gelf.h |
| 18:59.53 | ScaredyCat | /usr/include/libelf/gelf.h |
| 19:01.07 | drath | libelfg0-dev: /usr/include/gelf.h |
| 19:04.41 | ScaredyCat | yeah, unfortuneately there are no packages for suse 10.2 |
| 19:05.46 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 19:08.08 | *** join/#openmoko stratus (n=stratus@201.53.55.52) |
| 19:09.10 | *** part/#openmoko stratus (n=stratus@201.53.55.52) |
| 19:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:11.48 | edistar | hey! would it be possible somehow to let the interface turn 90° whenever the phone gets turned? with the sensors in it maybe? |
| 19:12.01 | ignas | yes |
| 19:12.32 | thomasg_ | edistar, phase1 doesnt have sensors |
| 19:12.43 | thomasg_ | in gta02 it will be no problem |
| 19:13.33 | edistar | thomasg_: that would be a cool feature, but doesn't that need to be built in the basic UI? |
| 19:14.04 | edistar | cause then you could quickly turn to write an sms with two fingers and type faster and then turn back to use it normally again.. |
| 19:14.50 | edistar | my digital camera has that feature, quite funny actually ;) |
| 19:15.00 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:15.32 | mjr | depends on what you mean built-in |
| 19:16.12 | edistar | I mean that _everything_, the whole UI, gets rotated.. |
| 19:16.19 | mjr | the apps need to be written so that they scale, but if that's done, rotation is X server's problem |
| 19:16.23 | edistar | ok |
| 19:16.40 | edistar | sounds good |
| 19:16.56 | edistar | I'm not a programmer, so I don't know... |
| 19:17.20 | mjr | and with gta02's gpu, the rotation shouldn't eat up power |
| 19:17.31 | edistar | yes |
| 19:17.44 | mjr | anyway, the keyword is "xrandr" |
| 19:18.39 | edistar | ah, nice |
| 19:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko keithp (n=keithp@home.keithp.com) |
| 19:21.11 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
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| 19:27.15 | edistar | I may be stupid but I can't find information on how to build the openmoko qemu environment? can someone give me a link? |
| 19:27.41 | balrog-kun | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 19:28.21 | *** part/#openmoko Tanja (n=opera@212-200-208-225.smin.sezampro.yu) |
| 19:28.30 | edistar | thanks |
| 19:28.46 | edistar | is there anything else than qemu as an alternative? |
| 19:31.34 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:31.35 | mjr | you can build the moko software for x86 |
| 19:31.49 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:32.30 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54928813.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:33.46 | ScaredyCat | has anyone managed to build under suse 10.2 ? |
| 19:34.35 | edistar | mjr: where can I find information about that? |
| 19:34.49 | edistar | just the sources from the svn and then ./configure? |
| 19:35.09 | balrog-kun | edistar: it's linked from the qemu page |
| 19:35.27 | edistar | okey :) |
| 19:35.47 | balrog-kun | also use the search box on the left |
| 19:37.42 | ScaredyCat | .. and put away any sharp objects... cos you'll end up stabbing yourself... |
| 19:38.01 | ScaredyCat | to numb the pain |
| 19:38.47 | ewon | heh |
| 19:38.49 | ewon | could be worse |
| 19:39.06 | ewon | I once spent a solid 2 months writing pretty much nothing but automake / autoconf files |
| 19:39.28 | ewon | oh, the humanity! |
| 19:41.03 | edistar | :P |
| 19:42.01 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:48.55 | nox-Hand | Oh no, not again. |
| 19:49.01 | SpeedEvil | pentunias? |
| 19:49.06 | ScaredyCat | at least you weren't the whale |
| 19:49.21 | SpeedEvil | A five-petalled flower? |
| 19:49.47 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@s15244973.onlinehome-server.info) |
| 19:50.04 | ignas | whale (!pentunia) { |
| 19:53.04 | nox-Hand | SpeedEvil: Afraid so |
| 19:53.04 | edistar | my debian lenny doesn't want to install the openembedded-essential package.. anyone else have that problem? |
| 19:53.53 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:53.53 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 19:53.53 | SpeedEvil | Oh er... And have them REPLACED... With legs of pure gold! And I will grant you the power to fire LASERS FROM YOUR HEAD!" |
| 19:53.57 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 19:55.18 | ignas | SpeedEvil: got carried away? |
| 19:56.05 | SpeedEvil | Someone asked for the quote in another channel. |
| 19:57.00 | edistar | hehe |
| 19:57.13 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
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| 20:17.41 | juri_ | i'd vote for him, over GWB. |
| 20:17.44 | *** join/#openmoko aristos_achaion (n=jbuchana@adsl-220-214-126.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 20:18.56 | SpeedEvil | I also tend to go on about swapping out all non-mobile fossil fuel use for nuclear. For balance of trade reasons as well as energy security. |
| 20:19.52 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@s15244973.onlinehome-server.info) |
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| 21:15.42 | summatusmentis | is there any chance at all that fic will increase the size of the actual screen for GTA02? |
| 21:16.15 | thomasg_ | no |
| 21:16.37 | thomasg_ | I don't even understand why they should do that? |
| 21:17.10 | summatusmentis | just allowing for more 'finger capable' applications |
| 21:17.27 | summatusmentis | an onscreen keyboard, for instance |
| 21:17.38 | balrog-kun | the only reason i see for that is to "catch up" with the resolution which is just too good |
| 21:17.49 | balrog-kun | for a phone |
| 21:17.53 | thomasg_ | oh, maybe they should take a 15 inch widescreen, so we could watch films on it with 15 other people :) |
| 21:18.11 | summatusmentis | mostly just a curiosity, I didn't think it'd be likely to happen at all :-) |
| 21:18.24 | summatusmentis | thomasg_: lol, no, just by maybe less than an inch or something |
| 21:18.27 | thomasg_ | ^^ |
| 21:18.57 | thomasg_ | as gta02 will have the same housing, the chances to get a bigger screen are at 0% |
| 21:19.09 | thomasg_ | and imho it shouldn't be bigger than 2,8" |
| 21:19.10 | summatusmentis | thomasg_: ok, that's sort of what I assumed |
| 21:19.37 | summatusmentis | :-/. I wish the interface could be used completely w/ a finger, as compared to part finger part stylus |
| 21:19.41 | balrog-kun | how do you know it will have the same housing? |
| 21:19.56 | summatusmentis | needing to pull out a stylus to use a phone seems counter-intuitive |
| 21:20.02 | balrog-kun | i'm expecting that the formfactor change slightly before the final release |
| 21:20.06 | summatusmentis | particularly for text entry |
| 21:20.31 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p5489138C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:21.46 | thomasg_ | we were talking about this yesterday. finger is fine, but for some applications a finger is no alternative to a stylus |
| 21:22.13 | summatusmentis | I must've missed that conversation |
| 21:23.15 | Vegar | balrog-kun: final release being GTA02? |
| 21:23.17 | thomasg_ | so imho it makes sense to have both concepts |
| 21:23.33 | thomasg_ | Vegar, yes, concerning the hardware |
| 21:23.36 | summatusmentis | thomasg_: I just feel like a stylus is unwieldy |
| 21:23.36 | balrog-kun | Vegar: yes |
| 21:24.12 | balrog-kun | i don't know if there will be only one GTA02 or it will have subreleases like GTA01 |
| 21:24.20 | balrog-kun | or already has some, in the labs |
| 21:24.28 | summatusmentis | afaik, GTA02 is the 'user' version |
| 21:24.41 | summatusmentis | there will be other devices, some won't be 'phones' but yeah |
| 21:24.59 | Vegar | balrog-kun: didn't sean say there won't be any changes in housing? |
| 21:25.22 | balrog-kun | Vegar: oh, may be |
| 21:25.44 | balrog-kun | i didn't hear it if he said that |
| 21:26.00 | Vegar | it's on one of the MLs |
| 21:26.02 | Elrond | GTA0[12] will have the same housing. |
| 21:32.45 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A37784.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:33.36 | Elrond | thomasg_ - BTW, I heard you're somewhat "on duty" for the dialer GUI? Is that right? |
| 21:33.39 | SpeedEvil | This does not mean that there will not be user-supplied cases. |
| 21:33.46 | SpeedEvil | With perhaps extra buttons. |
| 21:34.06 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: well, that's true... hmm |
| 21:34.36 | summatusmentis | a 'blackberry' style scrollwheel would be cool, but I assume that requires an interface to the mobo.... |
| 21:34.57 | Elrond | SpeedEvil Inc. selling unique Neos ;-) |
| 21:35.03 | thomasg_ | Elrond, what do you mean? |
| 21:35.45 | Elrond | thomasg_ - I just wanted to ask, if it's on purpose, that the number keys behave different (from clicking) than the say "dial" or "history" buttons. |
| 21:36.27 | thomasg_ | different? |
| 21:36.55 | thomasg_ | I don't know what you're talking about :) I'm not a developer |
| 21:37.25 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:37.53 | Elrond | thomasg_ - Huh, okay. :-)) Then forget it. Then I have mistaken you for someone else. :-| |
| 21:38.09 | *** join/#openmoko andi_ (n=andi@dynamic-unidsl-85-197-25-172.westend.de) |
| 21:38.16 | thomasg_ | I think so :) |
| 21:38.20 | summatusmentis | Elrond: quit trying to assign people things :-P |
| 21:39.01 | Elrond | summatusmentis - Huh? |
| 21:39.13 | summatusmentis | nvm, bad joke |
| 21:39.24 | summatusmentis | not worth explaining at all |
| 21:41.25 | Elrond | summatusmentis - hehe, okay. |
| 21:42.08 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-160-76.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 21:43.10 | balrog-kun | heh |
| 21:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko aristos_achaion (n=jbuchana@adsl-61-136-73.bhm.bellsouth.net) |
| 21:44.10 | balrog-kun | i think thomas w. may be the other person |
| 21:45.21 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Ahh, maybe. |
| 21:46.06 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54928813.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:48.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers]] |
| 21:51.22 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.57) |
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| 22:18.05 | zecke_ | wow I love svn, projects.openmoko.org is broken again |
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| 22:26.26 | *** join/#openmoko atmaniak (n=atmaniak@nawel.plexiweb.net) |
| 22:26.33 | atmaniak | hi |
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| 22:30.06 | zecke_ | I HATE SUBVERSION |
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| 22:37.26 | SiAnDoG | sera |
| 22:38.07 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 22:44.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 623 has been created by <zecke> |
| 22:44.02 | cdbot2 | * * Subversion server refuses to accept new files |
| 22:44.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=623 |
| 22:44.05 | SiAnDoG | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:44.40 | SiAnDoG | è una figata, il sogno di una vita :) |
| 22:50.22 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB3E437.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko ayeye08 (n=wimaxlib@host108-118-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 22:51.01 | ayeye08 | hi all |
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| 23:04.40 | *** part/#openmoko ayeye08 (n=wimaxlib@host108-118-dynamic.10-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
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| 23:08.48 | *** part/#openmoko white_gecko (n=natanael@1Cust246.tnt13.ber2.deu.da.uu.net) |
| 23:09.24 | *** join/#openmoko MarkTheDaemon (n=markthed@phpbb/modifications/MarkTheDaemon) |
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| 23:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko daMaestro (n=jon@fedora/damaestro) |
| 23:21.08 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 23:21.08 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: (last update 2007-06-30T13:10) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week 12:38:51 (7.527±1.0 days) (1660;242) |
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| 23:49.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware_-_Novel_Devices]] [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 23:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 23:59.51 | *** join/#openmoko apt_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 23:59.51 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $300, starting July 9. <> Mass market in October for $450. |
