| 00:00.41 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 00:00.43 | rwhitby | [lankester]: apologies - just caught up on the backlog :-) |
| 00:01.00 | [lankester] | np :) |
| 00:01.10 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 00:01.37 | [lankester] | I was ironic .. and english is not my first language .. so it was hard maybe to see it :) |
| 00:02.07 | webjames | night all |
| 00:02.16 | webjames | :) |
| 00:02.48 | rwhitby | [lankester]: no, your english was fine. my not reading the backlog before commenting wasn't :-) |
| 00:18.37 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@85-211-239-240.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:18.45 | noidd | http://www.google.com/accounts/VE?c=3944209141247777535&hl=en |
| 00:18.57 | noidd | Parody or Hate speech, Polls at 11. |
| 00:19.05 | noidd | mis-paste - soz |
| 00:28.35 | *** part/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-60-204.net.novis.pt) |
| 00:37.16 | *** part/#openmoko dotx (n=dotX@log77-4-82-246-228-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 00:37.28 | *** join/#openmoko overseer (n=overseer@dsl092-044-123.lax1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@205.233.53.236) |
| 00:53.43 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@204.101.149.3) |
| 00:57.16 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@c220-237-49-140.dandn2.vic.optusnet.com.au) |
| 01:00.08 | *** join/#openmoko [cc]smart (n=[cc]smar@gw.ptr-62-65-142-223.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 01:00.21 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=lardman@138.38.65.111) |
| 01:01.41 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 01:03.42 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 01:06.59 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhang (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 01:08.55 | *** join/#openmoko arw (i=familia@201.244.107.129) |
| 01:08.59 | *** part/#openmoko AlexZhang (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 01:14.00 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-160-189.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 01:24.08 | overseer | yay- the counter is gone |
| 01:25.36 | empty_mind | i dont think counter is gone |
| 01:25.42 | empty_mind | counter |
| 01:25.42 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 3 days 10:34:17 (10.440±1.0 days) (1641;242) |
| 01:28.35 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhan1 (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 01:33.47 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@66.135.114.72) |
| 01:35.03 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-137-208-23.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 01:37.17 | *** join/#openmoko idarwi1 (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 01:39.27 | *** join/#openmoko lengau (n=lengau@c-76-22-213-228.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 01:42.48 | *** part/#openmoko AlexZhan1 (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 01:43.05 | *** join/#openmoko AlexZhang (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 01:43.17 | bartel | http://pastebin.osuosl.org/1631 |
| 01:43.23 | bartel | anyone know whats up? ^ |
| 01:44.13 | *** part/#openmoko AlexZhang (n=alexzhan@58.61.45.63) |
| 01:45.02 | roh | bartel something with x11.. is it running in at least 16bit mode? |
| 01:45.13 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D8758.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:46.04 | bartel | roh: DefautDepth is set to 24. Do you know how I could check? |
| 01:46.22 | roh | sorry.. no. |
| 01:46.39 | roh | i have also 24bit (fglrx) and it works.. how did you compile qemu? |
| 01:46.49 | bartel | make qemu |
| 01:47.02 | bartel | MokoMakefile |
| 01:47.14 | roh | ok.. on which distro are you? |
| 01:47.20 | bartel | Debian etch testing |
| 01:47.37 | roh | sounds all fine so far...*sigh* |
| 01:47.53 | bartel | hrm, strange. I'll look into it |
| 01:47.55 | bartel | thanks! |
| 01:48.15 | bartel | xinerama? |
| 01:50.39 | roh | try googeling for single lines from the error.. like the one with the ids in are you on amd64 or on regular i386? |
| 01:51.44 | roh | http://www.winehq.org/pipermail/wine-users/2006-December/023956.html |
| 01:52.51 | roh | and these guys have another (not helping us here in detail) solution http://grass.itc.it/faq/xcolormap.html |
| 01:53.37 | bartel | roh: 1386, thank you |
| 02:08.25 | roh | i think we need someone with deeper x11-knowledge |
| 02:09.09 | bartel | heh, agreed |
| 02:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@66.135.114.72) |
| 02:12.26 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 02:12.28 | roh | heh... trolltech seems to be concerned http://www.golem.de/0706/53162.html |
| 02:13.56 | ph|ber | hey guys.. is the nokia e90 released yet?? i have seen a ton on ebay and around other websites. |
| 02:14.24 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@66.135.114.72) |
| 02:23.18 | bartel | roh: so, I changed video drivers from the nvidia binary to nv, dpkg-reconfigured xserver-xorg and am now running fine |
| 02:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 02:23.37 | bartel | i believe it had something to do with glx but it is beyond me |
| 02:25.47 | unknown_lamer | roh: the greenphone is neat ... but $700 ... no |
| 02:28.38 | roh | bartel eek... yeah.. binary x11-drivers are crap |
| 02:32.44 | *** join/#openmoko peterw (n=peterw@dsl092-166-013.wdc2.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 02:40.38 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9bea0e0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 02:51.15 | bartel | roh: fwiw, it was: Option "xinerama" "on" in the xorg.conf that causes this |
| 02:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54882319.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:55.02 | bartel | xinerama not playing nice |
| 02:56.10 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 03:07.25 | *** part/#openmoko idarwi1 (n=ian@207.81.133.5) |
| 03:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:08.40 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 03:10.43 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@acrux.theinternetco.net) |
| 03:18.30 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-away (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 03:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=nnrwhitb@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 03:26.54 | roh | bartel thanks for the info.. we should put that into the wiki i think |
| 03:45.06 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@66.135.114.72) |
| 03:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 03:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:48.37 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko _schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 03:51.56 | *** join/#openmoko _sbeh (i=sbeh@serverstaff.de) |
| 03:56.21 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (i=Cyphi_@a91-153-113-230.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 04:02.41 | mrfeetio | from what i understand the 1.5 will not have multitouch, are there plans to add it to v2? |
| 04:03.47 | aloril | would it be wrong to say this: |Connectors |
| 04:03.47 | aloril | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:03.47 | aloril | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:03.48 | aloril | ? |
| 04:04.01 | aloril | debug board itself is not connector ;-) |
| 04:04.54 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 04:06.12 | *** join/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-75-14.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 04:07.01 | linux_galore | YO YO |
| 04:07.39 | aloril | "2IC, SPI and Debug board connector" I gues |
| 04:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:15.04 | aloril | mrfeetio: don't think touch screen will change in GTA02, no idea about GTA03 (next year model) |
| 04:17.06 | linux_galore | heh, Microsoft research comment on /. .. Bears are Catholic. The Pope shits in the woods. |
| 04:18.09 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 04:24.58 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@66.135.114.72) |
| 04:32.58 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 04:36.52 | *** join/#openmoko crackfiend (n=chatzill@adsl-69-225-132-55.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 04:39.21 | aloril | in case you haven't noticed (from ML or from digg): http://digg.com/linux_unix/OpenMoko_the_Anti_iPhone |
| 04:43.17 | aloril | comment from digg: "I was about to buy a iphone then I remembered this project. I think I know a better way to spend my 300 dollars" |
| 04:44.50 | summatusmentis | aloril: that's the truth |
| 04:46.18 | aloril | another one: "Talk about a Iphone deflater with this on the main page of Digg." |
| 04:46.51 | aloril | surprisingly positive so far |
| 04:51.48 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 04:52.10 | summatusmentis | aloril: some of it can be quite negative... ugly, iPhone will be better done, etc. etc. |
| 04:52.27 | summatusmentis | also, you have to take into account that it's digg, how many non-techy users read digg? |
| 04:52.59 | aloril | yeah, but in past I have seen a lot negative comments ... |
| 04:53.24 | summatusmentis | you know.. openmoko should talk to mozilla... they've got $$$, they've got a product that they could, potentially, use to provide a browser for openmoko... |
| 04:53.49 | summatusmentis | even if it was just advert dollars in the NYT(similar to what they did w/ firefox) |
| 04:54.09 | summatusmentis | that's really what openmoko needs(once supply is available), they need to get heard of |
| 04:56.49 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:57.44 | juri_ | they just need to ship something. i'm sure all their current product inventory is spoken for. |
| 04:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko jonesy8 (n=asldkfj@ip68-103-129-157.ks.ok.cox.net) |
| 04:58.09 | summatusmentis | juri_: that's true... |
| 04:58.23 | jonesy8 | will the developer's version have the built in phone? |
| 04:58.23 | aloril | jonesy8: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 04:58.55 | jonesy8 | thanks |
| 04:59.16 | summatusmentis | jonesy8: yep, phone will work, _basic_ gps is available... I think not much else though |
| 04:59.17 | LittleIdiot | *gnaah* how i hate these neo vs iphone articles... |
| 04:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 04:59.34 | LittleIdiot | ...iphone isn't open, period. |
| 05:00.01 | summatusmentis | LittleIdiot: true... interfaces, etc.(stuff that the general public cares about) are very similar |
| 05:00.05 | aloril | hehe, just added answer for that question into faq ( Q: What kind of connectivity? ) |
| 05:00.05 | aloril | A: GSM, GPRS 2.5G (Not EDGE), Bluetooth 2.0 EDR, USB in all versions. WiFi: Atheros AR6K in GTA02. (No 3G in year 2007 models) |
| 05:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-223-007.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 05:01.09 | aloril | LittleIdiot: that's why many call it Anti iPhone ;-) |
| 05:04.43 | LittleIdiot | yeah, thats how flamewars start ;) |
| 05:06.03 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 05:08.27 | aloril | LittleIdiot: anyway, its annoying to see time after time that OpenMoko + Neo1973 is a copy of iPhone .. |
| 05:10.38 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-140-5.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 05:11.02 | *** join/#openmoko bprice20 (n=bprice20@cpe-74-67-57-122.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 05:12.29 | roh | its a single machine slice and a lot of people klicking atm |
| 05:14.28 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484CA0F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:14.55 | roh | uh.. shouldnt be so slow |
| 05:18.55 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 05:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 05:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko ray (i=ray@freenode/helper/ray) |
| 05:21.14 | *** join/#openmoko [psy] (n=psy0rz@lounge.datux.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:21.16 | *** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@89.98.218.127) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:21.19 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@mpd.laptop.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:21.37 | *** join/#openmoko ag (n=ag@fedaykin.roxor.cx) |
| 05:21.39 | *** join/#openmoko hypa7ia (i=hypatia@judecca.aculei.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:21.41 | *** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46) |
| 05:22.31 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe29dd00-231.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:22.40 | *** join/#openmoko FuzzyCat (n=andy@81.187.78.218) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:23.33 | ColdFyre | * You have been invited to #mIRCSetUp by corka (irc.SHOUTcast.com) does anyone else get that daily? |
| 05:24.02 | *** join/#openmoko esden`away (n=esden@repl.esden.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.08 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-223-007.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:24.49 | *** join/#openmoko hrw|gone (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:26.08 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 05:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko _llll_ (i=llll@unaffiliated/llll/x-000002) |
| 05:28.10 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 05:31.23 | hrw | morning |
| 05:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger_ (n=dilinger@mpd.laptop.org) |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko schurig_ (n=schurig@pD95F8928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484CA0F.dip.t-dialin.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko SP-8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-223-007.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@66.135.114.72) |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko sbeh (i=sbeh@serverstaff.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko _schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54882319.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9bea0e0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko erik (n=erik@gw.sbg.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko niki (n=niki@0x5553169c.adsl.cybercity.dk) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko high-rez (n=gus@carrera.bourg.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko paulproteus (i=paulprot@29.145.221.202.bf.2iij.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@18.85.46.35) |
| 05:32.15 | *** join/#openmoko hrw|gone (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 05:32.21 | *** join/#openmoko _sbeh (i=sbeh@serverstaff.de) |
| 05:32.23 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 05:32.24 | *** join/#openmoko niki (n=niki@0x5553169c.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 05:32.28 | linux_galore | hmm digg effect ? |
| 05:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko erik (n=erik@gw.sbg.se) |
| 05:32.46 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484CA0F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:33.07 | *** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 05:34.10 | aloril | from digg: "500 digs this fast?! Oh NOES! They only have 1000 of the version for sale on the 9th, and now I'll never get one. I hate digg." |
| 05:34.17 | happycube | lol |
| 05:34.40 | CM | Hehe |
| 05:35.10 | hrw | ;) |
| 05:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko high-rez (n=gus@carrera.bourg.net) |
| 05:35.44 | aloril | another comment: "from the actual consumer standpoint... yawn." |
| 05:36.12 | aloril | well.. (s)he is right at the moment, but in future hopefully not |
| 05:36.28 | aloril | (of course right, its not meant for consumers currently ;-) |
| 05:36.51 | pjz | yah, I'm saving my pennies for a GTA02, which should be out around christmas |
| 05:37.21 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54882319.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9bea0e0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 05:38.22 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 05:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X0f20.x.pppool.de) |
| 05:39.53 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 05:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 05:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.57.97) |
| 05:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.55.236) |
| 05:59.14 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 05:59.15 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 06:03.19 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 06:07.18 | *** join/#openmoko fiberspy (n=Livingst@24-119-98-240.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 06:07.47 | fiberspy | Hello all |
| 06:12.23 | fiberspy | so, what kind of software will the moko ship with? |
| 06:12.24 | aloril | fiberspy: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 06:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 06:14.43 | *** part/#openmoko fiberspy (n=Livingst@24-119-98-240.cpe.cableone.net) |
| 06:15.07 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@130.60.39.67) |
| 06:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko paulma (n=paul@dsl-245-134-142.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 06:25.36 | linux_galore | fiberspy: technically you should be able to run any Linux apps that are designed to work with small screen devices, there are tons of alternate browser, media players etc |
| 06:26.56 | *** join/#openmoko hermann (n=c102152@c102-hs.uibk.ac.at) |
| 06:27.21 | linux_galore | anyone get Dilo (browser) working on the GTA01 ? http://www.dillo.org/ |
| 06:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 06:34.40 | *** join/#openmoko Hokky (n=hokky@195.1.22.156) |
| 06:39.43 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 06:42.09 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 06:47.32 | linux_galore | openmoko is on the front page of digg |
| 06:49.11 | linux_galore | dont you hate the article discription "iPhone killer", to be honest its nothing like the iPhone |
| 06:51.14 | linux_galore | like calling a new breed of German Shepard a Terrier killer because they are both dogs, the openmoko is a totally different idea that is a mobile phone and thats as close as it comes to an iPhone |
| 06:51.17 | aloril | well, it says 'Anti iPhone' and it is many ways opposite ;-) |
| 06:51.45 | linux_galore | aloril: Im reading another article not the digg one |
| 06:51.47 | aloril | but it should be: iPhone is anti OpenMoko ;-) |
| 06:52.18 | hrw | anyway iPhone is released when Neo1973/OpenMoko is not. |
| 06:52.26 | linux_galore | sorry just realised I didnt mention it |
| 06:52.38 | hrw | so for media OpenMoko is 'anti iPhone' instead of vice versa |
| 06:53.18 | aloril | hrw: yeah, missed by few weeks |
| 06:53.26 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 06:53.41 | hrw | aloril: nearly 4 months |
| 06:54.02 | hrw | aloril: developer phones was first announced to be available in March |
| 06:54.07 | linux_galore | to me an iPhone is a pretty looking device with lots of consumer lockin that the Telco's like but its not a good consumer device in my books |
| 06:54.44 | hrw | linux_galore: atleast it does not have so thick case |
| 06:54.59 | aloril | hrw: well, I remember January myself ;-) (but I was referring to getting it shipping for money) |
| 06:55.10 | linux_galore | hrw: aah thats a scam. its very wide thats why it can be thin |
| 06:55.39 | hrw | linux_galore: did you had opened neo in hands? |
| 06:56.48 | *** join/#openmoko wehttamb_ (n=wehttamb@CPE-124-184-184-163.nsw.bigpond.net.au) |
| 06:56.50 | linux_galore | hrw: no I have seen the measurements. the moko is thick but the iPhone gets aways with it by making it thin and wide instead or narrow and thick, also the difference isnt as much as you think |
| 06:57.17 | linux_galore | hrw: its an illusion in a way |
| 06:57.20 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:57.22 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:57.29 | hrw | aloril: I am talking about this |
| 06:57.45 | hrw | linux_galore: I have 2 neos here |
| 06:58.01 | wehttamb_ | counter |
| 06:58.01 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 3 days 05:01:58 (10.210±1.0 days) (1642;242) |
| 06:58.46 | aloril | hrw: yeah, I guess that was first announcement with dates |
| 06:58.49 | linux_galore | hrw: yeah, you could make the neo thin like an iPhone by making it wider thus you get more space for parts |
| 06:58.58 | *** join/#openmoko ahuang (n=ahuang@218.241.86.114) |
| 06:59.39 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[IPhone]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[FAQ]] |
| 07:00.25 | linux_galore | hrw: only thin I dont like is they should have used a flat face instead of the recessed setup |
| 07:00.29 | linux_galore | think* |
| 07:00.49 | *** join/#openmoko nmathew (n=nmathew@60.243.235.7) |
| 07:01.10 | linux_galore | thing* |
| 07:01.12 | linux_galore | grr |
| 07:01.13 | wehttamb_ | can you order the neo1973 yet? |
| 07:01.24 | linux_galore | wehttamb_: July 9 |
| 07:01.58 | wehttamb_ | so u cant order before then |
| 07:04.01 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 07:04.41 | linux_galore | wehttamb_: note unless unless your a developer |
| 07:04.56 | linux_galore | Im out my brain is fried |
| 07:04.56 | wehttamb_ | k |
| 07:05.09 | linux_galore | wehttamb_: migh want to wait for the GTA02 |
| 07:05.13 | linux_galore | might* |
| 07:05.29 | hrw | linux_galore: anyone can order |
| 07:05.53 | wehttamb_ | yea im just interisted in seeing them actually available to be bought though |
| 07:06.14 | linux_galore | hrw: yeah but you wotn be able to till July 9, I asked yesterday |
| 07:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest54.crihan.fr) |
| 07:06.22 | hrw | linux_galore: sure |
| 07:06.47 | linux_galore | hrw: Im saying the only people getting any from what I can see before that date are developers |
| 07:07.44 | hrw | linux_galore: where it was told? and by who? |
| 07:08.20 | linux_galore | hrw: well all the images Im seeing with people with one are dev's |
| 07:08.54 | hrw | linux_galore: ah. |
| 07:09.36 | hrw | linux_galore: from your talk I got version more like "anyone can order from 9th july, but devels can order sooner' |
| 07:09.40 | hrw | ;DD |
| 07:09.49 | linux_galore | ah |
| 07:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-away (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 07:10.07 | linux_galore | no I didnt say the word "order" |
| 07:10.24 | hrw | 29 09:04 < wehttamb_> so u cant order before then |
| 07:10.25 | hrw | 29 09:06 < linux_galore> wehttamb_: note unless unless your a developer |
| 07:10.51 | hrw | 'can I order before 9th? no, unless you are developer' |
| 07:11.06 | linux_galore | hrw: I just saw order and own in the same context |
| 07:11.20 | hrw | English is different in misc parts of world:D |
| 07:12.55 | linux_galore | hrw: Im still flipping a coin when it comes to the GTA01 because I need wifi |
| 07:13.09 | hrw | ;) |
| 07:13.55 | linux_galore | hrw: its pretty cheap but I cant really do much with it because all my gear is wifi based |
| 07:14.57 | linux_galore | be fun to hack though and I expect thats the general idea |
| 07:15.25 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 07:16.32 | *** part/#openmoko linux_galore (n=Richard@dsl-220-253-75-14.NSW.netspace.net.au) |
| 07:22.33 | wehttamb_ | counter? |
| 07:22.33 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 3 days 04:37:26 (10.193±1.0 days) (1643;242) |
| 07:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:24.06 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=nnnrwhit@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 07:29.26 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-210-164.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 07:30.14 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 07:41.53 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-136-40.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:43.28 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0FAF2.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:45.20 | *** join/#openmoko XorA (n=xora@www.xora.org.uk) |
| 07:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 07:46.35 | *** join/#openmoko some1___ (n=some1@p54A0CB6E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:47.14 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-77-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 07:50.34 | aloril | hi XorA |
| 07:51.28 | XorA | yo aloril |
| 07:51.47 | FuzzyCat | bleh |
| 07:52.23 | *** part/#openmoko XorA (n=xora@www.xora.org.uk) |
| 07:55.01 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 07:59.16 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:59.49 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0E797.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:59.59 | aloril | morning Hopscotch |
| 08:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@X0f20.x.pppool.de) |
| 08:14.42 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485C9D3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:15.13 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@158.195.103.52) |
| 08:18.04 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:19.53 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:26.13 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 08:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko ahuang (n=ahuang@218.241.86.118) |
| 08:32.53 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz_ (i=inezz@195.113.97.158) |
| 08:33.22 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 08:33.37 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@static-b5-252-25.telepac.pt) |
| 08:34.02 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 08:35.35 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-210-164.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 08:35.49 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.9) |
| 08:38.45 | *** join/#openmoko Elleo (n=Elleo@unaffiliated/elleo) |
| 08:39.40 | Elleo | hi; as far as I understand gsmd communicates using standard protocols over UART to the GSM chip which itself is relatively independant of the operating system, is this correct? |
| 08:39.40 | aloril | Elleo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 08:41.05 | aloril | yes |
| 08:41.10 | Elleo | great thanks |
| 08:41.22 | aloril | (basically modem using AT commands) |
| 08:41.32 | Elleo | I'm considering trying to port gsmd and libgsm to run on the Treo, which has a very similar hardware setup |
| 08:44.22 | *** join/#openmoko dergringo (n=dergring@alpha.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 08:45.25 | dergringo | hello |
| 08:45.34 | pH5 | Elleo: have a look at the patches on the gsmd-devel list (or in openembedded), maybe they are interesting for you. we have gsmd already running on some different htc devices. |
| 08:45.54 | dergringo | Wow! I've been waiting for a open smartphone for ages! |
| 08:46.54 | Tjikkun | dergringo: i think everybody was waiting, now finally some people are doing :) |
| 08:48.31 | dergringo | does anybody know what the wifi chipset will be? |
| 08:48.31 | aloril | GTA02 (P1+/P1.5) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 08:48.36 | Elleo | pH5: great, thanks |
| 08:48.56 | dergringo | Atheros :) Great! |
| 08:49.34 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 08:51.50 | *** join/#openmoko njpatel (n=njp@5ac04797.bb.sky.com) |
| 08:54.23 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.78.239) |
| 08:58.39 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 09:01.54 | *** join/#openmoko Mark__T (i=86630288@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-085d8382ea9711e1) |
| 09:04.43 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@e064.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 09:05.25 | ynezz_ | wtf wifi? |
| 09:05.32 | ynezz_ | wifi |
| 09:05.32 | aloril | GTA02 (P1+/P1.5) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 09:05.35 | ynezz_ | ah |
| 09:05.39 | ynezz_ | nice :) |
| 09:06.46 | oelewapperke | aloril: will it have extra buttons ? |
| 09:07.29 | dergringo | oelewapperke: aloril seems to be a bot (girl?) ;) |
| 09:07.33 | oelewapperke | ah |
| 09:07.47 | Kero | part-time bot :) |
| 09:07.52 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mib (n=rob_w@X0695.x.pppool.de) |
| 09:08.00 | oelewapperke | does anyone know if the buttons suggestion will be implemented ? with 2x 4 buttons on either side of the screen |
| 09:08.13 | oelewapperke | I'd really love a device like that |
| 09:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@X0695.x.pppool.de) |
| 09:08.35 | oelewapperke | and I do wonder what the difference between "base" and "advanced" is |
| 09:09.42 | oelewapperke | 2 3d accelerometers rocks as well |
| 09:09.50 | aloril2 | cyborg actually |
| 09:10.11 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 09:11.08 | Elrond | oelewapperke - Let's see, how good they are. |
| 09:11.40 | Elrond | BTW: Do we have any info on how long the GTA01 will be available for $300? |
| 09:13.02 | oelewapperke | I guess there won't be any buttons :-( reading the page |
| 09:13.32 | oelewapperke | I hate these types of guys, with just a touchscreen |
| 09:14.11 | oelewapperke | and it's 640x480 hmmmm |
| 09:14.25 | oelewapperke | will make a great platform to play leisure suit larry :-p |
| 09:14.50 | Elrond | oelewapperke - two buttons: Power and AUX. ;o) |
| 09:15.10 | Elrond | How much disk space does "leisure suit larry" take? ;) |
| 09:15.15 | ynezz | 2GB |
| 09:17.45 | Elrond | That's a big microsd. ;) |
| 09:18.12 | oelewapperke | ynezz: depends on what version |
| 09:18.18 | oelewapperke | version 1 is 360 kilobyte I believe |
| 09:18.30 | oelewapperke | and lsl6 is still only 50 or so megabytes |
| 09:18.40 | xkr47 | counter |
| 09:18.40 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 3 days 02:41:19 (10.112±1.0 days) (1644;242) |
| 09:19.08 | oelewapperke | if you buy the $300 version, do you get an updated phone later ? |
| 09:19.17 | xkr47 | for 450 yeah |
| 09:19.22 | xkr47 | :) |
| 09:19.32 | oelewapperke | see topic ? |
| 09:19.39 | oelewapperke | or do you mean you gotta pay twice ? |
| 09:21.26 | Stephmw | howdy |
| 09:21.50 | Stephmw | oelewapperke: you get to pay once per device you buy |
| 09:21.57 | Stephmw | oelewapperke: pretty straightforward really ;-) |
| 09:24.51 | dergringo | has the phone vibration alarm? |
| 09:25.13 | Elrond | dergringo - It has a vibrator, yes. The rest is up to the software. ;) |
| 09:25.41 | dergringo | nice! where do i have to sign to buy that masterpiece? :D |
| 09:26.03 | alphaone | dergringo: The question is when. |
| 09:26.10 | alphaone | July 9th |
| 09:26.40 | oelewapperke | but it's the GTA01 model ? |
| 09:26.43 | alphaone | Or as soon as the shop goes online on www.openmoko.com |
| 09:26.49 | alphaone | yes |
| 09:27.07 | ynezz | it'll be sold out in 1 hour anyway... :p |
| 09:27.27 | Elrond | ynezz - *G* |
| 09:27.42 | Elrond | oelewapperke - Hmm, so lsl6 will fit on the included microsd. ;o) |
| 09:28.02 | oelewapperke | actually all lsl games except 7 will |
| 09:28.12 | oelewapperke | but without buttons not many other games will be playable |
| 09:28.20 | oelewapperke | say you want something like mario, or a racing game |
| 09:28.23 | oelewapperke | you NEED buttons |
| 09:28.54 | oelewapperke | can the phone be fully usb powered ? |
| 09:29.03 | oelewapperke | also for charging etc ? |
| 09:29.16 | dergringo | integrate bluetooth and usb2! So I can build up an remote game controller |
| 09:30.34 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 09:30.44 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62f33.bb.sky.com) |
| 09:33.29 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 09:34.07 | oelewapperke | you know they have a type of fluid keyboard in the colruyt (dept store), I wonder if I can cut out 2x4 buttons and glue them to the neo |
| 09:34.13 | oelewapperke | then interface it *somehow* |
| 09:34.55 | dergringo | :D |
| 09:35.23 | oelewapperke | this debug connector has enough lines, but only 1 gpio pin |
| 09:36.34 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 09:37.12 | *** join/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-2157.bb.online.no) |
| 09:38.42 | oelewapperke | I guess at 1 gpio pin to 1 key should be easy to interface |
| 09:39.01 | oelewapperke | it's jtag connector, so it should go directly to pins on the processor, right ? |
| 09:39.09 | oelewapperke | perhaps they can be reset to also be gpio pins ? |
| 09:39.18 | hrw | oelewapperke: 8 keys == 3 lines |
| 09:40.00 | oelewapperke | yeah but still only have 1 |
| 09:40.20 | *** part/#openmoko Mark__T (i=86630288@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-085d8382ea9711e1) |
| 09:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 09:42.20 | rwhitby | oelewapperke: jtag pins are usually dedicated |
| 09:44.56 | oelewapperke | rwhitby: the chip has 130 gpio ports configureable |
| 09:45.02 | oelewapperke | so probably there is a way to choose |
| 09:45.30 | rwhitby | oelewapperke: I design these chips. You never make the JTAG pins configurable. |
| 09:46.08 | oelewapperke | do you think then perhaps the 9 serial lines can be reconfigured ? |
| 09:46.26 | rwhitby | serial pins often are multi-purpose |
| 09:47.12 | rwhitby | just get the data sheet for the device and look. |
| 09:47.45 | oelewapperke | working on it :-p |
| 09:48.05 | oelewapperke | but with the serial pins you have much more chance of lines being interconnected in strange ways |
| 09:48.43 | rwhitby | oelewapperke: http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/MobileSoC/ApplicationProcessor/ARM9Series/S3C2410/2410UserManual.pdf |
| 09:49.07 | oelewapperke | I've got that one |
| 09:49.22 | oelewapperke | I wonder if they're using the FBGA version |
| 09:49.36 | rwhitby | page 9-1 to 9-6 |
| 09:50.14 | rwhitby | (note the JTAG pins are not shared with GPIO) |
| 09:50.45 | oelewapperke | where do you think the 9-pin serial is connected ? |
| 09:50.52 | *** part/#openmoko dergringo (n=dergring@alpha.tat.physik.uni-tuebingen.de) |
| 09:50.55 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley (n=bmidgley@c-24-2-92-215.hsd1.ut.comcast.net) |
| 09:51.46 | oelewapperke | perhaps GPH0-9 ? |
| 09:52.19 | rwhitby | again, look to the doco on the wiki: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA01Bv3/gpio.txt |
| 09:52.29 | rwhitby | (that's v3, v4 may be different) |
| 09:52.48 | rwhitby | there's v4: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA01Bv4/gpio.txt |
| 09:53.14 | rwhitby | You can find all this yourself on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#Processor |
| 09:55.45 | oelewapperke | I guess it should be doable to use the SPI debug interface |
| 09:55.59 | oelewapperke | has 3 lines, that can be reconfigured to be GPIO input/output pins |
| 09:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.23.56) |
| 09:57.22 | oelewapperke | I wonder if they are directly forwarded to the debug port or if there are components in between |
| 09:57.37 | *** join/#openmoko andi (n=andi@pD9E244BC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:57.46 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 10:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@oul110-gw4.netplaza.fi) |
| 10:03.54 | SpeedEvil | It's easy to just add a GPIO chip to the SPI bus. |
| 10:03.56 | SpeedEvil | Job done. |
| 10:05.42 | *** join/#openmoko jgoo (n=e4b80e21@ktsivran.static.otenet.gr) |
| 10:06.05 | jgoo | It has been so long since I last checked this project, I was very suprised to see so much progress |
| 10:07.06 | rwhitby-n800 | and you saved yourself all that senseless waiting too :-) |
| 10:07.19 | jgoo | I did check java-pkg subproject, is that alive? I didn't see much activity - will need to grok the wiki now |
| 10:07.22 | SpeedEvil | Not all. |
| 10:07.33 | SpeedEvil | still got 11 days. |
| 10:07.47 | jgoo | yep, now I am more anxious about this then the iPhone |
| 10:08.10 | jgoo | *than. Hrm. still, working on some ui threading issues, so back to work! |
| 10:08.21 | xkr47 | so you are standing in the iPhone queue and when you reach the point where you can get one you say "naah, I'll get a neo instead" :D |
| 10:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFF39A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:12.16 | jgoo | xkr47: You get to the front of the line and ask for a PS3 - then realising your mistake punch the engadget bloggers in the face, and run out screaming. |
| 10:12.20 | jgoo | or is that just me |
| 10:13.01 | xkr47 | maybe the entire line |
| 10:13.11 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 10:13.28 | jgoo | haha. go into apple store, come out with a PS3, and shout 'yes finally'. Yeah, I hate engadget too. They link*uckers |
| 10:13.44 | xkr47 | :D |
| 10:15.58 | *** join/#openmoko Gybrush (n=Gybrush@port-87-234-84-205.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 10:26.14 | jgoo | as in Threepwood? |
| 10:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko musicoliv (n=Administ@LSt-Amand-152-32-50-92.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:27.48 | *** part/#openmoko musicoliv (n=Administ@LSt-Amand-152-32-50-92.w193-252.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 10:29.57 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 10:32.39 | *** join/#openmoko xeon_ (n=xeon@d57-2-134.home.cgocable.net) |
| 10:38.43 | *** join/#openmoko _llll_ (i=llll@unaffiliated/llll/x-000002) |
| 10:38.49 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=ubuntu@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:41.20 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.78.239) |
| 10:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko andi (n=andi@pD9E244BC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:44.11 | jgoo | since I have been out of the loop - can I get a quick poll, what are most people eagrely awaiting out of openmoko? i.e., for people in here, what is the key feature, or killer in built component, or is it the potential? |
| 10:44.24 | *** part/#openmoko xeon_ (n=xeon@d57-2-134.home.cgocable.net) |
| 10:45.03 | SpeedEvil | Able to do custom stupid apps. |
| 10:45.19 | SpeedEvil | For example, a trivial GPS track + bluetooth voice logging |
| 10:45.22 | jgoo | also, I am looking at the next 'killer' mobile phone being an ultra portable, with output or host capabilities to 'run desktop apps' on the processor, when connected to a hub (like an OQO2) |
| 10:45.31 | SpeedEvil | For use with http://www.openstreetmap.com/ |
| 10:45.36 | SpeedEvil | Unlikely. |
| 10:46.09 | jgoo | SpeedEvil: I like that idea, and open streetmap is great, however, I can do that with my SE (Java + bluetooth GPS + GPRS) Still, it is a much nicer looking platform for it |
| 10:46.11 | SpeedEvil | Expense, connector problems, power problems, ... |
| 10:47.06 | jgoo | SpeedEvil: it will have a sync / power dock right? From here, it could host an x server - I don't know, I am just thinking that phones could 'morph' into ultraportables one day |
| 10:47.26 | SpeedEvil | It has a USB dock, and yes in principle you can connect it to an xterm. |
| 10:47.49 | SpeedEvil | Practically, the amount of processing power you can fit into a mobile is small. |
| 10:48.14 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@e084.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 10:48.37 | SpeedEvil | It's generally cheaper just to jam it in the terminal device nowadays. |
| 10:48.50 | SpeedEvil | What might work moderately well is portable storage. |
| 10:49.00 | *** part/#openmoko Cairdazar (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) |
| 10:49.30 | *** join/#openmoko Cairdazar (n=Cairdaza@hd5e24dca.gavlegardarna.gavle.to) |
| 10:53.58 | *** join/#openmoko ubuntu_ (n=ubuntu@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 10:55.07 | GaKKGaKk | I thought the Neo didn't have "multi-touch" :\ |
| 10:55.24 | jgoo | SpeedEvil: I am thinking, map ~ to the device, carry your shell setup, files, and that... portable home / office |
| 10:56.38 | Stephmw | GaKKGaKk: iirc it averages the pressure points |
| 10:56.54 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 10:56.58 | jgoo | Stephmw: surely that could be changed to get raw pressure points? |
| 10:57.21 | Stephmw | jgoo: depends on where the averaging occurs I imagine |
| 10:57.25 | jgoo | or is that a feature of the touch surface itself (it can only register one point, from one signal, and work out the closest point) |
| 10:57.53 | jgoo | Stephmw: something to look at, I need to catch up on this, any browsable svn / code maps? =) |
| 10:59.03 | GaKKGaKk | So it will some kind of virtual multi touch then? With software saying: "If we have the touch point moving quickly to another position, without releasing pressure completely, we have another finger on the screen" :\ |
| 10:59.08 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@c115.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 10:59.31 | SpeedEvil | basically. |
| 10:59.39 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Minimo/it]] [[Wishlist_-_Hardware_-_Novel_Devices]] [[Minimo]] [[Application_Developer/it]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] |
| 10:59.53 | Stephmw | jgoo: should be linked to from the wiki |
| 10:59.55 | jgoo | GakKGaKk: touch screens work in many ways, this one (don't know what it is) might not be able to sense > 1 contact, only that there is a contact, and the center of the signal is around x,y |
| 10:59.57 | SpeedEvil | When you press this sort of toucscreen, the output point is somewhere in the bounding box of all touches. |
| 11:00.42 | SpeedEvil | You do not get pressure as such. |
| 11:01.15 | jgoo | hey, you can't have everything, if this had pressure sensitivity, I'd buy 10 |
| 11:01.48 | *** join/#openmoko friede1 (n=fwolff@dsl-241-150-179.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 11:01.55 | SpeedEvil | what is it? |
| 11:02.03 | GaKKGaKk | It would be nice if it could indeed sense more than one contact, or you end up with the same thing as the laptop touchpad.... Not nearly multitouch... |
| 11:02.09 | ewon | target shooting performance analysis |
| 11:02.12 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 11:02.28 | SpeedEvil | GaKKGaKk: yeah - not this version though. |
| 11:02.45 | jgoo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#LCD_Module_.28LCM.29 |
| 11:02.55 | ewon | basically, you have a target on the screen, same as the one you are shooting at. Hit on the target with the stylus where the arrow / bullet impacted on the real target, and it will show you over time the trends in your shot groups |
| 11:02.59 | *** part/#openmoko friede1 (n=fwolff@dsl-241-150-179.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 11:03.13 | SpeedEvil | Fun. |
| 11:03.28 | jgoo | GakKGaKk: I don't think laptop touchpads are multitouch though, they just know the center of the touch... I think (unless you can hack them) |
| 11:03.29 | ewon | I wrote a prototype in java a few years back, but I didn't have the sheer bloodymindedness to keep writing it |
| 11:03.37 | SpeedEvil | Add a couple of servos, and a camera, and you could add an aimbot! :) |
| 11:03.44 | jgoo | GakKGaKk: ignore what I said, I realised you said the same thing |
| 11:04.27 | jgoo | ewon: this is basically a heat map application for shooting? |
| 11:05.15 | jgoo | ewon: If you want I'll write one up tonight on superwaba... should be pretty easy (if you don't want features like undo and that, just plain 'keep adding until you manually delete the db file' :-) |
| 11:06.05 | ewon | jgoo: no thanks, half the fun is in writing it myself :) |
| 11:06.06 | Stephmw | jgoo: you're involved in superwaba? |
| 11:06.24 | jgoo | hm. openmoko case mods. DIY LED / cathode tube flashing phone on ring |
| 11:06.30 | ewon | o0 |
| 11:06.46 | jgoo | Stephmw: only as an end developer (3.5 full apps) |
| 11:07.19 | Stephmw | ahh, 'k |
| 11:07.31 | jgoo | have submitted some code back to the main branch, some popup code |
| 11:07.37 | jgoo | and some color pallete code |
| 11:07.47 | jgoo | s/color/colour ;-) |
| 11:08.19 | Stephmw | s/pallete/palette/ no worries :) |
| 11:10.06 | jgoo | heh. usb host seems great, I can plug in my cuecat ;-) or perhaps some other smaller barcode / rfid scanner |
| 11:11.37 | jgoo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/thumb/e/e6/Gta01b_v3_bottom.jpg/400px-Gta01b_v3_bottom.jpg |
| 11:11.52 | jgoo | is that the total footprint of the device, including microphone and speakers? |
| 11:12.50 | hrw | jgoo: mic and speakers are on other side of PCB |
| 11:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 11:13.27 | jgoo | I guess battery etc, just looking at these pics, and seeing the 'pill shape' case of it, looks like a lot of empty space in those circular extensions |
| 11:14.23 | hrw | jgoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/8/82/Gta01b_v3_top.jpg - look at this |
| 11:14.35 | hrw | jgoo: black circle on right is mic |
| 11:15.20 | hrw | jgoo: but where exactly speakers connects I do not remember and do not want to disassemble my neos |
| 11:16.03 | hrw | jgoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 is also worth read |
| 11:16.37 | jgoo | wow, hang on, the neo was a released device right? |
| 11:16.41 | hrw | jgoo: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_pcb_lifted.jpg show pins for speakers |
| 11:17.03 | hrw | jgoo: in March first (selected) developers got phones |
| 11:17.11 | ynezz | jgoo: i think, that you can't power devices from neo over USB |
| 11:17.24 | hrw | then we got current version of phone. |
| 11:17.47 | jgoo | aaah. ok. I see the GSM antenna is in the top rounded loop |
| 11:18.40 | mmp | hmm, still no e-mail about neo distribution channels? |
| 11:18.53 | Rince | mmp: wait until July 9th? |
| 11:18.57 | jgoo | hrw: thanks those high res shots are great |
| 11:19.01 | mmp | Rince: not really |
| 11:19.02 | Rince | where is the problem in buying online? |
| 11:19.20 | thresh | russia |
| 11:19.28 | mmp | Rince: Sometime later |
| 11:19.28 | mmp | today or early tomorrow we're going to make another announcement asking |
| 11:19.28 | mmp | for some advice. |
| 11:20.00 | Stephmw | I have heard that there are problems importing into Russia (laws on one side, and corrupt customs on the other) |
| 11:20.04 | mmp | Rince: the problem is that you still can't download your Neo using internet connection, it has to be shipped from somewhere:) |
| 11:20.05 | Rince | well - I'd just wait until Jul 9th and ask _then_ wether openmoko has an idea |
| 11:21.09 | mmp | Basically, I will wait too (as there is no other option), but I would like to know how much will I have to pay for shipment etc. |
| 11:22.43 | Rince | mmp: I guess this will be settled then - FIC seems to have experience in that field. I'd just wait until the official opening |
| 11:23.11 | mmp | let's hope so:) |
| 11:23.57 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-178-245.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:25.25 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 11:29.02 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.188.238) |
| 11:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko felipe (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se) |
| 11:32.04 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_1aptop (n=ewanm89@host86-152-204-166.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 11:32.46 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 11:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:37.28 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:40.29 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A56EE1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:43.16 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 11:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:44.38 | *** join/#openmoko mitsuhiko (n=blackbir@ubuntu/member/mitsuhiko) |
| 11:46.46 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@c206.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 11:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:15.38 | *** join/#openmoko yurenju (n=yurenju@cs185.csie.ncyu.edu.tw) |
| 12:15.54 | Linux_Galore | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0RcCFrf-NW0 |
| 12:16.00 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 12:16.20 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE537.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:17.30 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreira (n=rmoreira@87-196-60-204.net.novis.pt) |
| 12:17.57 | Linux_Galore | Im actually running kubuntu from a usb thumb drive on a VoIP telephone that I have on test and chatting in here |
| 12:20.28 | Linux_Galore | its running a Via Eden 400mhz cpu 129mb ram |
| 12:20.45 | Placid | seriously?... |
| 12:20.48 | Linux_Galore | yes |
| 12:20.53 | Linux_Galore | 128* |
| 12:21.12 | Placid | You're running Kubuntu on a VoIP telephone... |
| 12:21.16 | Linux_Galore | yep |
| 12:21.27 | Placid | That totally rocks. |
| 12:21.28 | GaKKGaKk | Does it still do VoIP? |
| 12:21.29 | aloril2 | that connect 100 text terminals to Neo1973 has quite amount of publicity potential |
| 12:21.34 | Placid | Yeah, good question |
| 12:21.36 | Linux_Galore | its basically just a very small x86 fanless pc |
| 12:21.46 | Placid | Can we see some pics? |
| 12:21.50 | rxr | Linux_Galore: which company / product ? |
| 12:22.06 | Placid | Are you talking to us now via the VoIP phone? |
| 12:22.07 | Linux_Galore | Placid: Interquartz |
| 12:22.23 | Linux_Galore | Placid: not for release till late 2008 |
| 12:23.07 | rxr | aha |
| 12:23.07 | aloril2 | something like: take image from old times with big mainframe + many text terminals connected to it |
| 12:23.07 | Placid | model? |
| 12:23.12 | Linux_Galore | its one of a few units on test, this one has the most over kill |
| 12:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko rrripley (n=Randy@user-3cf8av2.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 12:23.48 | Placid | counter |
| 12:23.49 | Linux_Galore | enough overkill to run ubuntu usb |
| 12:23.49 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 2 days 23:36:11 (9.983±1.0 days) (1645;242) |
| 12:24.01 | aloril2 | then same, but replace mainframe with Neo1973 (have actual 100 text terminals in hall and people using them and stuff happens inside Neo1973) |
| 12:24.49 | Linux_Galore | I doubt we will release this unit its way too expensive as a business unit |
| 12:25.33 | Linux_Galore | also uses way too much power, nearly 23W |
| 12:26.20 | Linux_Galore | wonder if you can cluster some GTA01's lol |
| 12:26.54 | Linux_Galore | guys over at folding going wtf is a moko cluster |
| 12:26.54 | Placid | aloril2: will your counter predict P1.5 release too? |
| 12:28.20 | Linux_Galore | Placid: it doesnt have a model number we use drawing numbers in the early stages |
| 12:28.52 | Linux_Galore | ie model==drawing version |
| 12:29.14 | Linux_Galore | or schemetics version if it makes you happy |
| 12:29.23 | Placid | I see |
| 12:29.30 | Placid | Still cool though :) |
| 12:30.22 | Linux_Galore | Placid: yeah, there is another company called Zulty that already makes Linux VoIP stuff |
| 12:30.42 | Linux_Galore | stuff = telephones/router |
| 12:31.16 | Placid | Yeah i'm sure there is |
| 12:31.28 | Placid | Just interested in the kubuntu via usb on a voip phone |
| 12:31.35 | Placid | Hilarious almost |
| 12:31.41 | aloril2 | Placid see counter web page |
| 12:32.01 | Linux_Galore | Placid: no biggie its basically a compact x86 PC |
| 12:32.32 | Placid | ja |
| 12:32.41 | Placid | OK aloril2 |
| 12:32.55 | *** join/#openmoko yacc_ (n=andreas@85.127.78.239) |
| 12:33.05 | Linux_Galore | Placid: even more funky is I just got flash working and Im now watching openmoko video on it |
| 12:33.31 | Placid | lol! |
| 12:33.32 | rwhitby | hrw: for some reason I always thought mickey would look like harald, and harald would look like mickey. no idea why - that's just the first thing I thought when I saw them both together for the first time. |
| 12:33.44 | hrw | rwhitby: ;) |
| 12:33.50 | Linux_Galore | had to manually install the plugin |
| 12:33.56 | hrw | rwhitby: I met mickeyl already |
| 12:35.43 | Linux_Galore | if you come into our place it looks all tidy like FIC foyer and then you walk into the lab and go oooh my god what hit this place heh |
| 12:36.02 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz (i=inezz@195.113.97.158) |
| 12:36.05 | rwhitby | Linux_Galore: it's the same in every company I've worked for |
| 12:37.22 | Linux_Galore | rwhitby: not always, the first company I worked for was all tidy and everything was put in a set place, company went broke 8 weeks after I left and the place I work for now has been running for 21 years |
| 12:37.31 | rrripley | When is the Neo1973 going to be available to the public...? |
| 12:37.31 | aloril | rrripley: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:37.59 | ruimoreira | can anyone post the url fot the counter please? |
| 12:38.07 | Linux_Galore | rrripley: July 9 aprox |
| 12:38.15 | rrripley | thanks |
| 12:39.06 | Placid | You should see my desk |
| 12:39.13 | Linux_Galore | Im on this stupid phone because my laptops hardisk fs just went south |
| 12:39.21 | Placid | Paper,disks, tea... |
| 12:39.31 | Placid | Not as much hardware as my home desk though |
| 12:39.44 | Placid | monitors & a second box that's tidily concealed though |
| 12:39.48 | Linux_Galore | Placid: theres a funny saying, a tidy desk is a sign or a empty mind |
| 12:39.56 | Linux_Galore | of a* |
| 12:40.08 | Placid | Linux_Galore: hehe indeed. I always thought it was "tidy desk, dirty mind" :) |
| 12:40.25 | Placid | Linux_Galore: doesn't quite work though, as my desks a pig sty |
| 12:40.58 | Linux_Galore | Placid: there is a funny sign on the back of the lab door, We don't believe in miracles we depend on them. |
| 12:41.27 | aloril2 | ruimoreira: |
| 12:41.27 | aloril2 | counter |
| 12:41.28 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 2 days 23:18:32 (9.971±1.0 days) (1646;242) |
| 12:41.49 | Linux_Galore | Placid: we dont allow food in the lab it attracts wildlife as we site right next to a national forrest |
| 12:41.56 | Linux_Galore | sit* |
| 12:42.44 | Linux_Galore | looks like I may have to go get a new hardisk for my lappie, pisses me off |
| 12:43.00 | Linux_Galore | fsck has been going for hours |
| 12:43.45 | *** join/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-24-190.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 12:45.33 | Placid | Linux_Galore: LOL |
| 12:50.00 | xkr47 | maybe it's ch*ating on you |
| 12:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 12:58.48 | Linux_Galore | now this has to be nuts, I now have a usb2 hub plugged into a VoIP phone and a external usb burner is now burning a copy gutsy |
| 12:59.08 | Linux_Galore | of* |
| 12:59.33 | Linux_Galore | got a permissions problem with cdroa but I fixed that |
| 13:00.06 | SpeedEvil | It's only nuts if it doesn't work satisfactorily. |
| 13:00.18 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 13:00.39 | Linux_Galore | well it initially didnt want to work but i tracked it down to an hal bug |
| 13:01.07 | Linux_Galore | yay its finnished |
| 13:01.31 | Linux_Galore | god I luv Linux |
| 13:02.26 | Linux_Galore | so I now just need to get a new hardisk and install gutsy and Im back in action |
| 13:05.46 | Linux_Galore | anyway Im out getting late |
| 13:06.38 | Linux_Galore | have a good weekend everyone |
| 13:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest54.crihan.fr) |
| 13:12.05 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 13:12.50 | Placid | gutsy? |
| 13:14.38 | inz | Placid, I'm guessing next ubuntu |
| 13:14.42 | *** part/#openmoko freskog (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 13:15.21 | inz | Placid, Ubuntu 7.10 aka "Gutsy Gibbons" |
| 13:16.19 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:16.38 | Placid | Thanks |
| 13:16.42 | Placid | Yeah it is, just Googled |
| 13:17.13 | *** part/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-2157.bb.online.no) |
| 13:22.49 | *** join/#openmoko torpor (n=torpor@ip.tech.t-mobile.at) |
| 13:22.50 | kiney | counter |
| 13:22.50 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 2 days 22:37:09 (9.942±1.0 days) (1647;242) |
| 13:22.58 | torpor | hiya |
| 13:23.14 | torpor | folks - is it possible that there is a way to buy an openmoko right now in europe (austria) and if so, how? |
| 13:23.15 | aloril | torpor: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:23.32 | torpor | anyone got one to sell? |
| 13:24.01 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@wlan-client-130.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 13:24.49 | rwhitby | torpor: got one in Australia, but not Austria. |
| 13:24.52 | hrw | openmoko or neo? |
| 13:25.07 | rwhitby | hrw: sell him an svn checkout? |
| 13:25.10 | torpor | rwhitby: thats no use, though i am an australian living in austria. ;) |
| 13:25.16 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-151-185-14.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 13:25.43 | torpor | i guess i'll wait until july 9th and buy the Neo Advanced package then .. but i was hoping to replace my current cell phone this week .. |
| 13:26.26 | hrw | torpor: it is not yet ready to replace cellphone |
| 13:26.33 | torpor | oh? |
| 13:26.42 | torpor | i thought it was a working cell phone that needed apps built for it .. |
| 13:26.46 | torpor | but i've got some reading to do, i see .. |
| 13:27.02 | hrw | torpor: it powers up, it allow to call/receive call. |
| 13:27.16 | torpor | thats what i need right now |
| 13:27.21 | hrw | it lack sms/mms handling, can crash in any time etc |
| 13:27.26 | *** part/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@wlan-client-130.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 13:27.29 | torpor | just a working cell phone. and i want to hack apps for it. |
| 13:27.46 | Placid | Read the FAQ & Wiki, torpor |
| 13:27.52 | Placid | It'll save you typing these questions :) |
| 13:28.04 | torpor | i'll just go do that then. |
| 13:28.17 | torpor | sorry for bothering you folks, i'll be back when ican actually write some code for the thing .. |
| 13:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@ppp-82-135-81-239.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 13:28.31 | *** join/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-2157.bb.online.no) |
| 13:34.43 | jgoo | I haven't even read what SIP clients might run on this phone... any yet? |
| 13:35.17 | jgoo | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=SIP&go=Go :/ |
| 13:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@150.243.206.128) |
| 13:35.31 | *** part/#openmoko shipman (n=jon@150.243.206.128) |
| 13:36.48 | jgoo | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-March/004188.html > I see |
| 13:37.09 | Dvalin | '/wigoto 26 |
| 13:38.19 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:39.19 | jgoo | asterisk comtrol panel built into this, see all extensions, visual voicemail, looks like it could be a great sip client platform (since you can call GSM, or wifi to the local PBX) |
| 13:39.36 | jgoo | I am looking on the site - where are the specs for this July 9th device? |
| 13:39.40 | jgoo | WiFi? |
| 13:39.40 | aloril | GTA02 (P1+/P1.5) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 13:39.55 | jgoo | Yes I saw the Atheros, but it was so recent I wasn't sure |
| 13:40.44 | hads | That's an automated response in case you didn't know. |
| 13:40.56 | jgoo | so Phase 1+/1.5 (GTA02) is the July 9th availability? |
| 13:41.07 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 13:41.09 | jgoo | aaah I see |
| 13:41.11 | jgoo | my stupidity |
| 13:41.12 | SpeedEvil | GAT02 is October |
| 13:41.19 | hads | Nope, Phase 1 is soon. |
| 13:41.21 | SuN | What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi... hmm... WhyNoWiFi would have sufficed :) |
| 13:41.24 | SpeedEvil | The July 9 one is the current P1 ones |
| 13:41.40 | jgoo | so no 3d accellerometer? |
| 13:41.48 | SpeedEvil | Not in the stock one, no. |
| 13:41.59 | jgoo | ok\ |
| 13:41.59 | SpeedEvil | Unless you send your P1 to me for a $40 upgrade. |
| 13:42.09 | *** join/#openmoko iniduoh (i=azts@gateway/tor/x-b21b16d13fa2c42a) |
| 13:42.12 | SpeedEvil | Which may include other stuff, and may not be that price, and may not be available. |
| 13:42.30 | hads | Ahmhm |
| 13:42.32 | ph|ber | hey.. |
| 13:42.36 | ph|ber | when is the launch ?? |
| 13:42.50 | jgoo | So the idea is, get the hardware together, make sure it 'gels' and then keep improving and flashing the device |
| 13:42.54 | iniduoh | Is there a development program that I can try out? |
| 13:43.08 | SpeedEvil | iniduoh: what do you mean? |
| 13:43.12 | hads | ph|ber: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/announce |
| 13:43.22 | SpeedEvil | ph: July 9 it goes on sale |
| 13:43.29 | SpeedEvil | ph: development continues. |
| 13:43.40 | Stephmw | The Turtle Moves! |
| 13:43.48 | ph|ber | wait.. july 9th is the release. or the release of the development one. |
| 13:43.55 | SpeedEvil | Development. |
| 13:43.57 | hads | ph|ber: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/announce |
| 13:44.00 | SpeedEvil | No wifi, no accel, ... |
| 13:44.10 | SpeedEvil | But $300, not $450 |
| 13:44.16 | ph|ber | bleh.. |
| 13:44.28 | iniduoh | Is there a development environment for the phone. One that simulates the phone. |
| 13:44.34 | mmp | I wonder what will be specs for GTA03 :) |
| 13:44.36 | hads | iniduoh: Yes |
| 13:44.50 | iniduoh | I'm interested |
| 13:45.33 | ph|ber | geez. i know when i buy an iphone today, i will probally return it. |
| 13:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F72C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:48.08 | jgoo | ph|ber: put it on ebay, wait 3 hours, if it don't sell for 300% (someone might be stupid) return it |
| 13:48.20 | xkr47 | heh |
| 13:48.20 | jgoo | if they sell out (I think they will) there may be ebay demand |
| 13:48.40 | ph|ber | personally .. i think they will sell out. |
| 13:48.47 | ph|ber | to mac people. |
| 13:48.48 | ph|ber | heh |
| 13:48.53 | ph|ber | and people who want the latest. |
| 13:48.58 | ph|ber | but look at the facts. |
| 13:49.04 | ph|ber | no 3g, no tethered modem. |
| 13:49.04 | jgoo | OMG <caps> then why are you here and not waiting in line with Packer? </caps> |
| 13:49.05 | jgoo | :-) |
| 13:49.44 | ph|ber | i would like a nokia e90 |
| 13:49.52 | jgoo | ph|ber: EDGE is classified as 3G, WiFi is untethered access... (I think wifi will make real 3G redundant for most people within the next 12-24 months |
| 13:50.24 | ph|ber | no i mean, connecting my laptop through bluetooth and using the internet through the phone. |
| 13:50.52 | ph|ber | no gps, |
| 13:51.00 | ph|ber | and the list goes on.. in what i want in a phone. |
| 13:51.22 | jgoo | so when you haev to use EDGE. Why is gps a factor? seperate gps devices are $50 for bluetooth, and you don't have that extra component inside |
| 13:51.38 | ph|ber | it is just another thing to have on me. |
| 13:51.44 | ph|ber | when it should be included in the phone. |
| 13:51.52 | jgoo | (okokok GTA01 will have gps...) |
| 13:51.56 | ph|ber | i think im going to get a n95.. |
| 13:52.06 | ph|ber | i know. |
| 13:52.26 | jgoo | should is arguable - it would be an amazing GPS device with google maps built in. worldwide gps map coverage. |
| 13:52.31 | ph|ber | but even the n95 will only take the 2gig medias. |
| 13:52.38 | jgoo | there is no way of nowing if it will even work with gps for now.. I hope so |
| 13:52.40 | *** join/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:52.46 | hrw | device which use only 2G cards is crap |
| 13:52.56 | hrw | 8GB cards for everyone :D |
| 13:53.15 | jgoo | on the apple site it mentions that the web2.0 apps written online for the iphone will be ableto make use of the address book, make calls, and use multitouch. I don't know what they are smoking, but... how? |
| 13:53.28 | ph|ber | yea. |
| 13:53.37 | ph|ber | and! no 3rd party apps for the iphone |
| 13:53.40 | jgoo | unless they mean the multitouch zoom will work, and a callto:// protocol will work... |
| 13:53.40 | ph|ber | which means, no ssh client. |
| 13:53.48 | jgoo | ph|ber : wrong (kinda) |
| 13:54.00 | jgoo | unless you have an online ssh client... which... is... online.. |
| 13:54.00 | ph|ber | ? |
| 13:54.21 | jgoo | you can write apps on sites for it. I agree it would be nice to 'install' stuff to it |
| 13:54.46 | ph|ber | i really dont want to load a website just to use an app |
| 13:54.59 | jgoo | google maps? |
| 13:55.09 | jgoo | admittedly they took that and went somewhat native with it |
| 13:55.31 | Stephmw | Oooo, kinky |
| 13:55.48 | Stephmw | jgoo: we do that a lot at work too... going native that is :) |
| 13:55.54 | *** join/#openmoko some1__ (n=some1@p54A0FF11.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:56.26 | xkr47 | wireless terabyte storage in your backpack and a few megs on the phone :) |
| 13:56.50 | Stephmw | and a trailer for the batteries? :) |
| 13:57.06 | xkr47 | a small suitcase nuclear plant |
| 13:58.10 | iniduoh | Can openmoko run regular apps? |
| 13:58.13 | iniduoh | Such as emacs? |
| 13:58.14 | aloril2 | iniduoh: see MokoMakefile linked from FAQ |
| 13:58.39 | aloril2 | yes |
| 13:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 13:59.46 | jgoo | Stephmw: are you an undercover trying to infiltrate an underground street racing gang involved with hijacking DVD players from trucks? |
| 13:59.57 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:00.09 | Stephmw | jgoo: hahaha |
| 14:00.12 | jgoo | :-) |
| 14:00.30 | ph|ber | thinking about it.. i dont think there will be a boom on ebay. |
| 14:00.35 | Stephmw | jgoo: I'm a J2ME core api developer having to dip into native far too frequently for his own liking |
| 14:00.36 | ph|ber | bc apple.com is selling them too.. |
| 14:01.06 | jgoo | emacs... on openmoko...my little finger just cried for joy (or winced in pain). |
| 14:01.17 | jgoo | aaaah I see |
| 14:01.31 | jgoo | Stephmw: you are a develop for j2me on dev.java.net? |
| 14:01.41 | Stephmw | jgoo: no, I work at a manufacturer |
| 14:01.45 | Stephmw | jgoo: Sun licensees |
| 14:01.46 | jgoo | oh. which one? |
| 14:02.01 | Stephmw | (mumble)(mumble)[NDA] |
| 14:02.13 | Stephmw | I'll let you know after I've quit... leaving on 10th August :) |
| 14:02.53 | unknown_lamer | jgoo: what's wrong with emacs on openmoko? It was my intended use for the device :-) |
| 14:03.23 | Stephmw | unknown_lamer: hahaha |
| 14:03.25 | unknown_lamer | jgoo: emacsserver + bt net pipe to my workstation + small program to forward elisp to emacs = remote media library control |
| 14:04.01 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:04.05 | jgoo | unknown_lamer: nothing, far from it, being able to ctrl+c+s+f+x+v+c+x+q+esc+q+g+m+x without growing two new fingers will be wonderful! |
| 14:04.15 | *** part/#openmoko mrfeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:04.19 | Stephmw | jgoo: and no, you can't guess from my ip ;) |
| 14:04.23 | jgoo | :-) |
| 14:04.23 | unknown_lamer | jgoo: my plan is to experiment with non-keyboard interfaces to emacs |
| 14:04.25 | jgoo | busted |
| 14:04.28 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 14:04.29 | unknown_lamer | at least for things like planner and w3m |
| 14:04.32 | Stephmw | jgoo: work -> ssh -> SCREEN -> irssi ;) |
| 14:04.42 | *** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-223-007.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 14:05.20 | Stephmw | jgoo: just me being paranoid really... publicly logged channels and all that ;) |
| 14:05.43 | jgoo | oh yeah. |
| 14:05.53 | not_jgoo_honest | I have a plan |
| 14:06.27 | Stephmw | does it involve a rubber chicken, two measures of vodka and a looooong elastic? |
| 14:06.42 | jgoo | nickserv identify hhhaiiwagomp |
| 14:07.00 | Stephmw | time to change that password... |
| 14:07.17 | jgoo | Ha Ha Ha As If I Would Accidentally Give Out My Password |
| 14:07.23 | jgoo | Sometimes I just like to bait |
| 14:07.52 | Stephmw | I've seen it happen |
| 14:08.09 | jgoo | I sometimes paste code to dev chanels, and rather than change passwords to 'LOLZ' I change them to something more realistic, and wait to see the failed logins appear :-) |
| 14:08.42 | *** part/#openmoko iniduoh (i=azts@gateway/tor/x-b21b16d13fa2c42a) |
| 14:08.44 | jgoo | actually not a bad password... add a few letter/number changes |
| 14:09.11 | *** join/#openmoko Ryback_ (n=ulisses@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:12.08 | ph|ber | i think im going to buy a n95 |
| 14:12.27 | jgoo | mmm. apt-get install openstreetmap-moko.... drive drive, walk... |
| 14:12.40 | jgoo | I wonder if iphones unlimited data plans are going to be commonplace now? |
| 14:12.57 | aloril | ph|ber: I saw some review of 4GB microSD which mentioned that only N95 takes those |
| 14:13.09 | andi | lol |
| 14:13.31 | ph|ber | hrm.. i believe it only takes up to the 2gig.. |
| 14:13.33 | ph|ber | i thought. |
| 14:13.38 | ph|ber | from nokias website. |
| 14:13.39 | aloril | (and possibly Neo1973, but microSD and Neo1973 have not yet met) |
| 14:13.57 | aloril | s/microSD/4GB microSD/ |
| 14:13.59 | Stephmw | jgoo: you forgot the quotes.... AT&T's 'unlimited' dataplan |
| 14:14.03 | jgoo | apt-get install youtube-moko pr0n-tube-moko lol-tube-moko - hey gotta get value for money from the data plan. |
| 14:14.55 | jgoo | aaah. yeah. I can imagine. is there any discussion on if it will be limited somehow? I can imagine some people using 24/7 data streaming access, why not... speaking of which |
| 14:15.32 | jgoo | I wonder if the reason for no 3rd party apps is just that... 3rd party apps == much data streaming, such as 24/7 life streaming from iphone (although sprint sell that plan I believe I read it on justin.tv) |
| 14:15.47 | Stephmw | fair usage policies and all that rubbish |
| 14:15.55 | Stephmw | ... not that you can really pull that much over EDGE |
| 14:16.35 | jgoo | exactly. and I can imagine 24/7 for some people who really want it. I don't know, putting an iphone connected to youtube / trailers in your taxi |
| 14:16.35 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.9) |
| 14:17.20 | jgoo | its just a screen with a data plan, playing video... that is quite unique today though, the sheer comoditisation of it |
| 14:18.20 | ph|ber | aloril: straight from the tech specs on the n95: |
| 14:18.22 | ph|ber | Memory card slot supporting up to 2 GB microSD memory cards |
| 14:19.40 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-178-245.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:20.16 | aloril | ph|ber: this claims otherwise: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/06/12/review_sandisk_4gb_microsdhc/ |
| 14:21.04 | ph|ber | ]http://www.nseries.com/nseries/v3/media/sections/products/tech_specs/en-R1/tech_specs_n95_en_R1.html |
| 14:21.30 | ravan_ | is anyone else not able to do ---> mtn --db=OE.mtn pull monotone.openembedded.org org.openembedded.dev |
| 14:21.55 | jgoo | are all gps antennas created equal, or are some created more equal than others? |
| 14:22.05 | zecke | ravan_: use a mirror? |
| 14:22.21 | aloril | ph|ber: it might be just case that 4GB was not available at the time nokia spec page was written |
| 14:22.27 | zecke | our beloved OE server is heavily overloaded by the moko fanboys |
| 14:22.36 | ph|ber | aloril: true |
| 14:22.39 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.102.189) |
| 14:22.47 | aloril | ph|ber: nobody with Neo1973 has managed to get hold of 4GB card, so we don't know ;-) |
| 14:23.22 | aloril | ph|ber: in theory Neo1973 should support 4GB |
| 14:23.30 | jgoo | so, they both use the same microsd chipset? |
| 14:23.57 | aloril | well, I might be wrong, but I think its more like software change |
| 14:24.03 | jgoo | in this channel, are there mostly developers, or the people who actually string the hardware specs together for this device? |
| 14:24.05 | jgoo | I see |
| 14:24.07 | ph|ber | aloril: the neo is linux.. it supports everything |
| 14:24.08 | ph|ber | ! |
| 14:24.25 | ewon | jgoo: mostly software side of it, AFAIK - the actual hw is controlled by FIC |
| 14:24.29 | ewon | *hw design |
| 14:24.31 | jgoo | oh. apt-get install mame-moko |
| 14:24.36 | ph|ber | aloril: puzzling.. |
| 14:24.37 | ph|ber | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/05/01/review_nokia_n95/page5.html |
| 14:24.47 | ph|ber | here says 2 gig too.. the review of the n95 on the same website.. |
| 14:24.54 | aloril | there are people from OpenMoko company (part of FIC) |
| 14:25.03 | hrw | ph|ber: n95 takes sd or microsd? |
| 14:25.39 | aloril | ph|ber: yeah, I guess at that time they didn't have 4GB and nobody else either ;-) |
| 14:25.51 | ph|ber | cool |
| 14:25.53 | SpeedEvil | 4G is basically unavailable still. |
| 14:25.54 | ph|ber | hrw: mirco |
| 14:25.58 | SpeedEvil | (in microSD) |
| 14:26.28 | hrw | ph|ber: microSD 4GB will be SHDC only probably so thats why it is limited to 2G |
| 14:26.32 | thomasg_ | 4gb is unavaiable since the announcement (which was early 2007) |
| 14:26.39 | ph|ber | and the review said a small battery charge time.. nokia says upto 225 hours |
| 14:26.41 | SpeedEvil | SDHC is >1G |
| 14:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 14:27.03 | thomasg_ | erm, no, sdhc is over 2gb. 2gb microSDs are available |
| 14:27.06 | SpeedEvil | Pre-SDHC is <=2G |
| 14:27.10 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:27.12 | thomasg_ | sure? |
| 14:27.17 | ph|ber | only question is, can you use the n95 as a tethered modem. |
| 14:27.23 | SpeedEvil | I'm pretty sure 1G SDHCs are out there. |
| 14:27.38 | SpeedEvil | I haven't actually researched it much though. |
| 14:28.11 | SpeedEvil | And I did say >1G :) |
| 14:28.15 | SpeedEvil | I dunno though. |
| 14:28.21 | SpeedEvil | The largest one I have on hand is 512M |
| 14:28.26 | thomasg_ | would that make sense? sdhc = sd high capacity. 1 gb is not high capacity :) |
| 14:28.29 | SpeedEvil | I've been putting off purchasing. |
| 14:28.41 | SpeedEvil | Well - SDHC doesn't make much sense. |
| 14:28.49 | aloril | pretty recent review: SanDisk 4GB Micro SDHC memory card 12th June 2007 10:02 GMT |
| 14:28.51 | SpeedEvil | The capacity limit of SDHC is 32G IIRC |
| 14:28.56 | thomasg_ | and all 2 gb microSDs that are available (and this are many) are normal SD |
| 14:29.14 | SpeedEvil | It's 32, or 64. |
| 14:29.18 | SpeedEvil | Either way insane. |
| 14:29.30 | thomasg_ | its 32 |
| 14:29.51 | thomasg_ | and wikipedia says SDHC = all SD starting at 4 GB and ending at 32 GB |
| 14:30.00 | SpeedEvil | It can start earlier |
| 14:30.06 | Stephmw | Oooh, interesting... http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2288025838.html |
| 14:30.12 | SpeedEvil | 4G is the 'must be SDHC' range |
| 14:30.18 | ravan_ | zecke: mtn: misuse: database /home/chetan/openmoko/OE.mtn is laid out according to an old schema |
| 14:30.20 | SpeedEvil | http://www.theonion.com/content/news/construction_worker_still_hasnt?utm_source=onion_rss_daily |
| 14:30.22 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 14:30.55 | zecke | ravan_: well, monotone.ca and happy reading |
| 14:32.36 | thomasg_ | SpeedEvil, ok, I looked and it's all about standards. there might be 8 gb normal SD cards, but that woulndt be ok according to the SD-standard |
| 14:33.03 | Sup3rkiddo | ravan_: mtn db migrate --db=OE.mtn |
| 14:34.44 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 14:34.55 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@xdsl-87-78-65-52.netcologne.de) |
| 14:34.58 | *** join/#openmoko mrfeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:35.05 | SpeedEvil | And hence they may not work on some stuff. |
| 14:36.17 | hrw | 4G can be normal SD too |
| 14:41.04 | ravan_ | Sup3rkiddo: thanks |
| 14:41.39 | Sup3rkiddo | np |
| 14:42.35 | ravan_ | Sup3rkiddo: do you do any openmoko development? |
| 14:45.02 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:45.08 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D848A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:49.03 | *** part/#openmoko mrfeetio (n=david@c-71-230-5-247.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:51.20 | *** join/#openmoko andi (n=andi@pD9E244BC.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:52.04 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 14:54.37 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 14:59.58 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Minimo]] [[Minimo/it]] |
| 15:00.45 | aloril | this claims that openmoko was at 52. place in most searched google words: http://www.ezineblog.org/?p=87 |
| 15:01.28 | aloril | (not that surprising considering digg links to fake redirection page now, seems it was too much traffic for that blog) |
| 15:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko daftman (n=huy@60-241-227-110.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 15:09.54 | daftman | hi |
| 15:10.01 | daftman | can anyone tell me where I can get the virtual machine and sdk for linux debian? |
| 15:10.01 | aloril | daftman: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:10.04 | *** join/#openmoko ruimoreir1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-90-155.net.novis.pt) |
| 15:10.23 | *** join/#openmoko cajun (i=816a6266@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-0339773c09674845) |
| 15:10.57 | ravan_ | anyone here getting in queue for an iphone? |
| 15:11.13 | daftman | I am |
| 15:11.19 | daftman | i want one |
| 15:11.42 | daftman | but I need some info on how to buy it |
| 15:12.14 | ravan_ | ok.. just wanted to know how long the queues build up to |
| 15:12.57 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-67-167-90-105.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:17.30 | aloril | hmm.. HMD could be connected to USB2 in some future OpenMoko supporting hardware ( like but different interface, etc.. http://www.aeinnovations.com/projects/ ) |
| 15:19.12 | summatusmentis | aloril: HMD? |
| 15:19.36 | alphaone | yay, now we're talking :-) |
| 15:19.44 | alphaone | summatusmentis: Head mounted display |
| 15:19.45 | aloril | summatusmentis: head mounted display |
| 15:19.48 | aloril | hehe |
| 15:19.54 | summatusmentis | lol, that would be cool |
| 15:20.01 | aloril | (see above link) |
| 15:20.35 | aloril | it doesn't need to be VGA, monochrome QVGA would be useful too (if you want more, then take device out of pocked and stare at its screen like you do now) |
| 15:22.12 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85.127.102.189) |
| 15:22.35 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:22.41 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 15:22.56 | summatusmentis | see... that's the sort of thing I could see myself wearing... alot of these things are just stupid looking |
| 15:22.57 | aloril | + http://www.handykey.com/site/twiddler2.html and you can keep device most of time in pocket |
| 15:24.05 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@205.233.53.236) |
| 15:24.20 | SpeedEvil | There have been mostly covert displays built into glasses. |
| 15:24.45 | SpeedEvil | Of course - there is the fundamental - and often misunderstood limitation that light does not work like it does in star trek. |
| 15:24.53 | aloril | hmm.. monochrome QVGA might work on USB1.1 too .. |
| 15:25.02 | don-o | SpeedEvil: sunglass-looking HMD would rule. |
| 15:25.09 | SpeedEvil | So you need some sort of mirror/lens in the field of view where you want the 'monitor' to appear. |
| 15:25.20 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 15:25.43 | SpeedEvil | It would be so nice if holograms did what they do in star trek. |
| 15:26.56 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, I just wonder why nobody is mass producing stuff like that guy has done |
| 15:30.38 | SpeedEvil | If light worked like on star-trek, my first wish would be a nice big 8'*4' display. |
| 15:30.44 | SpeedEvil | As a window. |
| 15:32.44 | summatusmentis | so these HMDs... are they still sunglasses? that is, can you still see through them? |
| 15:32.58 | summatusmentis | or is that what you're saying SpeedEvil |
| 15:33.24 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 15:33.40 | summatusmentis | on? |
| 15:33.53 | SpeedEvil | Basically you need some sort of thing in front of your eye that reflects/emits light into the eye at the appropriate place. |
| 15:34.10 | SpeedEvil | The thing has to entirely cover the visible display. |
| 15:34.21 | SpeedEvil | (with minor caveats on pupil diameter) |
| 15:34.53 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: glass covered with microprism array and beans coming from the glass stem? |
| 15:34.57 | Stephmw | *beams |
| 15:35.04 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 15:35.10 | SpeedEvil | Yes, you can do that sort of stuff. |
| 15:35.10 | Stephmw | ... not exactly see-through though |
| 15:35.11 | summatusmentis | ok, but this 'thing' makes the glasses themselves no longer transparent enough? |
| 15:35.16 | SpeedEvil | Generally, with existing devices. |
| 15:35.26 | summatusmentis | I see |
| 15:35.37 | SpeedEvil | You have a 'blob' of monitor somewhere in your visual field, that's not transparent. |
| 15:35.45 | summatusmentis | so you're either looking at the display, or you're walking down the street, not both |
| 15:36.04 | SpeedEvil | If however you use a mirror as the optical element that relays into your eyes, you can in principle have a 'transparent' display |
| 15:36.46 | SpeedEvil | But making it large - so that it covers the whole visual field even when you scroll your eyes up and down tends to make it very very bulky for basic optical reasons. |
| 15:36.47 | aloril | not a new thing ;-) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann |
| 15:36.47 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I'm thinking the only way to properly display something like that without having something in the eye's field of view is some type of direct excitation of the retina |
| 15:36.59 | summatusmentis | how so? I suppose you could mount a small camera, and have whatever the camera 'sees' as the background to the display? |
| 15:37.06 | SpeedEvil | Direct excitation pretty much means that you have something in the eye. |
| 15:37.23 | SpeedEvil | yes - you can do that too - completely virtual. |
| 15:37.24 | Stephmw | sure - I was thinking of a microwave active chemical... |
| 15:37.31 | Stephmw | and excite it externally |
| 15:37.38 | SpeedEvil | Microwave can't work. |
| 15:37.42 | Stephmw | but yeah.... bodymods are out of the question |
| 15:37.45 | SpeedEvil | It's not high enough resolution. |
| 15:37.48 | aloril | summatusmentis: I think its like some monitor hovering (and it does hide what is behind) |
| 15:38.08 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: running out of things that can penetrate the skull though |
| 15:38.14 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: practical ones that is |
| 15:38.16 | SpeedEvil | Imagine basically strapping a neo display to your head with a coathanger, with a lens to focus it. |
| 15:38.26 | *** join/#openmoko sudharsh_ (n=sudharsh@59.92.23.56) |
| 15:38.31 | *** join/#openmoko xaaax (n=seinfeld@bl4-233-65.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 15:38.51 | SpeedEvil | Basically in reality, there are very limited options. |
| 15:39.09 | aloril | anyway, unobtrusive sun glass looking HMD was possible about 10 years ago ... maybe its now possible to mass produce same thing that was possible to make 10 years ago .. |
| 15:39.24 | SpeedEvil | Either - direct brain interface. Interface to the optic nerve. Interface to the retina. All of these are in the future, with the possible risk of blindness/insanity for the early adopters. |
| 15:39.24 | aloril | maybe those that try to produce are making them: |
| 15:39.27 | alphaone | I read about a laser once that painted the display onto your retina |
| 15:39.35 | ewon | sounds healthy |
| 15:39.42 | aloril | 1) too cyborg looking (not sun glass looking like it should) |
| 15:40.00 | SpeedEvil | alphaone: there has been lots of crap spouted unfortunately. Lasers are just ordinary light. |
| 15:40.01 | aloril | 2) are obsessed with resolution, etc.. while QVGA monochrome would already be useful |
| 15:40.09 | gamin | wow, the french mobile operators are real bastards. data is pretty much only available with a separate sim card, unless paying impertinent prices. |
| 15:40.16 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 15:40.22 | SpeedEvil | You cannot scan directly onto the retina, because the lens is in the way. |
| 15:40.55 | SpeedEvil | This means that you need the display final optic to be the same visual size as the virtual display as you see it. |
| 15:40.55 | gamin | like 0,50EUR for every GPRS data call in tranches of 20 minutes... |
| 15:41.49 | gamin | that is very well an attack on phones like the neo |
| 15:41.57 | aloril | gamin: 0.5EUR every 20 minutes? |
| 15:42.13 | gamin | I wonder how long it takes until the eu commission is going to stop that |
| 15:42.17 | SpeedEvil | If you try a pin-sized object 1cm from the eye that 'scans' an image onto the pupil, then all you end up with is a blurry image as if you hold a slide 1cm from the eye. |
| 15:42.18 | gamin | aloril: yes |
| 15:42.27 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:42.34 | aloril | about 5EUR / month ;-) |
| 15:42.44 | gamin | aloril: they just stopped that on the 14th of june... |
| 15:43.15 | aloril | oh |
| 15:44.41 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: Well, the article sounded rather convincing at that time... |
| 15:44.43 | gamin | internet-wise france is great: I pay 30EUR/month for 20Mbit and 100 tv channels and free calling into 49 countries and video on demand... |
| 15:44.55 | *** part/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8928.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:44.59 | gamin | but mobile is the most expensive crap of europe |
| 15:45.08 | Sup3rkiddo | gamin, show off!! |
| 15:45.30 | SpeedEvil | alphaone: There are physical devices out there. But I was interested in the field when this sort of hype was coming out, and asked over in sci.optics saying 'is this bullshit'. |
| 15:45.44 | SpeedEvil | And the consensus was basically yes. |
| 15:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko buz_ (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:46.01 | gamin | Sup3rkiddo: no, everybody here and his grandma does have that. It just shows what the industry is capable of |
| 15:46.07 | SpeedEvil | You don't need a working product - or a possibly working product - just enough to convince a venture capitalist. |
| 15:46.23 | Sup3rkiddo | :( |
| 15:46.24 | aloril | SpeedEvil: what about Sun Glass HMD like in those 2 links a gave? they seem to use it, one even all the time |
| 15:46.56 | gamin | I start to wonder if italian phones/sim-cards will be cheaper than french ones... |
| 15:47.38 | SpeedEvil | hang on - missed the links |
| 15:47.41 | SpeedEvil | a gave? |
| 15:47.52 | alphaone | Hmm, well I fear I'll have to wait some more before HMD become serious (and affordable) products. |
| 15:49.06 | gamin | in italy you can get 9GB for 25EUR... |
| 15:49.17 | aloril | SpeedEvil: http://www.aeinnovations.com/projects/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann |
| 15:49.27 | SpeedEvil | Oh right. |
| 15:49.49 | SpeedEvil | Yes, you can get small virtual monitors into a covert package. |
| 15:50.24 | aloril | Steve Mann seems to have used since late 1990 sun glass looking HMD |
| 15:51.06 | SpeedEvil | There are lots of compromises meaning it may not be a viable commercial product. |
| 15:51.09 | aloril | SpeedEvil: see any reason why not mass produce something like that? (dunno what resolution is, maybe QVGA monochrome) |
| 15:51.17 | SpeedEvil | No, I don't. |
| 15:51.23 | SpeedEvil | Other than the possibly small market. |
| 15:51.23 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest54.crihan.fr) |
| 15:52.03 | SpeedEvil | What it really needs is a low power CPU/Bluetooth, and do X or something over the link. |
| 15:52.08 | SpeedEvil | To lose the wire. |
| 15:52.41 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest54.crihan.fr) |
| 15:53.04 | SpeedEvil | Add a couple of cameras - even tiny ones to track gaze direction, and it could be very handy. |
| 15:53.13 | SpeedEvil | IMO - the wire makes it non mass market. |
| 15:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 15:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 15:54.21 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A360D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:54.52 | aloril | so its either few made by hand or millions (or at least 10000nds), between those things don't work? |
| 15:57.01 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A56EE1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:58.00 | aloril | s/things/thinks/ |
| 15:58.15 | SpeedEvil | To an extent. |
| 15:58.23 | SpeedEvil | There is an awkward spot. |
| 15:58.41 | SpeedEvil | If you can make a million of something, the cost may drop to a quarter of the cost at 100. |
| 15:59.10 | SpeedEvil | quarter/half/third, depending on the product of course. |
| 15:59.32 | aloril | yeah, thus $400-$600 in small production maybe, but $100-$150 in mass production, quite a difference |
| 15:59.55 | SpeedEvil | In mass production, 200-250 would get you a pretty awesome device. |
| 16:00.13 | SpeedEvil | Comparatively that is. |
| 16:00.29 | thomasg_ | imho $350 for gta02 would be a really good price |
| 16:00.43 | aloril | hmm.. not that expensive, but these are not sun glass looking like ;-) http://www.i-vue.net/i-vue.html |
| 16:00.47 | SpeedEvil | Wireless display with eye-mouse, ... |
| 16:01.27 | SpeedEvil | Yes, ideally I'd like devices that would not make others point and laugh :) |
| 16:02.26 | *** join/#openmoko bonan (n=bonan@h129n2fls33o865.telia.com) |
| 16:02.37 | aloril | well.. maybe one unit |
| 16:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko nm_ (n=hongtd@58.187.120.191) |
| 16:03.47 | SpeedEvil | Doing the 'million' thing also means that you can custom design stuff. |
| 16:03.53 | SpeedEvil | Which is nice. |
| 16:05.56 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 16:06.41 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:07.01 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:07.58 | aloril | yeah, anyway I would say again 2 keywords: cheap and covert (drop requirement for high resolution, etc..) |
| 16:08.21 | SpeedEvil | I'd like QVGA or better |
| 16:08.22 | aloril | current systems are expensive and quite visible |
| 16:08.22 | SpeedEvil | It would _need_ wide variation of brightness. |
| 16:08.47 | SpeedEvil | I want it to work in daylight and moonlight. |
| 16:08.48 | aloril | well.. it seems goal is SVGA and $600 ... and quite visbile ;-) |
| 16:09.13 | SpeedEvil | What goal? |
| 16:09.30 | aloril | those that produce HMD's currently |
| 16:09.49 | aloril | ie.. for professional work, like at storehouses, etc.. |
| 16:09.59 | juri_ | i was recently at SID2007. emagine has it right. |
| 16:10.18 | juri_ | i've got a development kit already ordered. |
| 16:10.36 | juri_ | its just too bad i've got to order a quantity of a thousand to do buisness with them. :) |
| 16:11.51 | SpeedEvil | I wish e-ink weren't bastards to deal with. |
| 16:12.06 | SpeedEvil | They are utterly un-interested in small quantities (thousands). |
| 16:12.41 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering about a simple printer for e-ink. |
| 16:13.15 | SpeedEvil | Basically a simple roll of e-ink, with a printer 'wand' that slips over the paper, and writes it. |
| 16:14.09 | aloril | juri_: cool! |
| 16:14.35 | SpeedEvil | juri_: details? |
| 16:14.43 | SpeedEvil | Or brief sentance. |
| 16:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:15.42 | aloril | juri_: what their website shows is quite big, but I guess you are talking about something different unobtrusive |
| 16:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@guest54.crihan.fr) |
| 16:17.01 | aloril | hmm.. I think I would be willing to pay $600 for QVGA monochrome or better that looked just ordinary sun glasses and could be used with some future (or even current) OpenMoko device |
| 16:17.42 | aloril | (but to be viable for mass market I think price should be <= $200 ?) |
| 16:18.11 | SpeedEvil | Something like http://www.emagin.com/products/OLEDMD/OLED-XL.php for example I think is what he's meaning I think. |
| 16:18.18 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:18.36 | SpeedEvil | Mechanical Envelope: 19.78 x 15.2 x 5 mm |
| 16:18.38 | juri_ | speed: yepyep. they had a smaller/lighter prototype to work with at SID. |
| 16:19.06 | juri_ | and its not viable for mass market. yet. plus, my interface ideas have to wait for the next openmoko anyways. |
| 16:19.14 | SpeedEvil | That's not really covert sized. |
| 16:19.18 | SpeedEvil | Was there a smaller one? |
| 16:19.26 | SpeedEvil | You really want 5mm or so diagonal |
| 16:19.40 | *** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@89.98.218.127) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:19.41 | juri_ | i also got to play with micro-projectors in a pair of sunglasses. what you're really looking for. ;) |
| 16:20.00 | aloril | cool!! |
| 16:20.05 | juri_ | unfortunately, they were going for arround $10K a pair. ;P |
| 16:20.12 | SpeedEvil | Micro projectors? |
| 16:20.12 | aloril | ouch |
| 16:20.19 | mjr | 10K is a bit much still |
| 16:20.28 | mjr | you know, for personal use ;) |
| 16:20.57 | aloril | hmm.. so.. 2-10 years away for mass market then |
| 16:21.13 | juri_ | the technology exists, its just not cheap enough... yet. i'm part of a venture to develop the UI/OS for such a system before the system becomes viable... and i think thats about the end of what i can talk about. :P |
| 16:21.36 | aloril | juri_: USB2? |
| 16:21.50 | aloril | hehe |
| 16:22.49 | aloril | juri_: why something like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann etc.. have done is not yet viable in mass market, only when done individually? |
| 16:23.27 | *** join/#openmoko greggypoo (n=greg@shed.goonies.be) |
| 16:23.28 | juri_ | really, i think thats about the end of my conversation keeping abilities. ;P |
| 16:23.37 | aloril | ok ;-) |
| 16:23.51 | aloril | juri_: very cool to hear that there are plans |
| 16:23.54 | Vegar | aren't HMDs very eye-straining? |
| 16:24.10 | mjr | sure, if they suck |
| 16:25.36 | SpeedEvil | Not inherently. |
| 16:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko bonan (n=bonan@h129n2fls33o865.telia.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:25.40 | SpeedEvil | Done wrong, they can be. |
| 16:26.56 | Vegar | wouldn't you have to keep focus very close to the eye? |
| 16:26.56 | aloril | Vegar: no, optics make it look like it farther |
| 16:26.59 | Vegar | ah |
| 16:27.00 | Vegar | ok |
| 16:27.17 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081DE78.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:27.25 | aloril | hmm.. I think OpenMoko is really good thing for wearable development |
| 16:28.00 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@e208.lmu.vpn.lrz-muenchen.de) |
| 16:29.31 | mjr | may well be |
| 16:29.34 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 16:30.05 | mjr | I was looking hard at wearables a few years back but too little, too expensive, too much work |
| 16:30.44 | SpeedEvil | I was looking at them way back when. |
| 16:31.06 | SpeedEvil | I had 90% of a 386/20 wearable designed, and then ran into supply problems. |
| 16:31.20 | SpeedEvil | AMD based. |
| 16:31.59 | SpeedEvil | 1*PCMCIA slot, 4 lithium AA cells (tadiran) buttons round the edge to do 'chording' |
| 16:32.27 | *** join/#openmoko MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) |
| 16:34.06 | aloril | add powered USB2 to Neo1973 and it should be enough, so its really now practically only missing covert HMD's that is holding up |
| 16:35.45 | SpeedEvil | That's really mass market only though. |
| 16:35.59 | SpeedEvil | Or a much longer dev time/effort. |
| 16:36.05 | Elrond | hmd? |
| 16:36.13 | SpeedEvil | Head Mounted Display. |
| 16:36.13 | mjr | true |
| 16:36.30 | mjr | I'd settle for a wired one |
| 16:36.47 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: from things that make you look like a low-budget borg, to ones that are almost invisible in sunglasses. |
| 16:37.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh. |
| 16:37.59 | Elrond | Nothing for me ;) |
| 16:38.52 | SpeedEvil | Implants like 7 of 9? |
| 16:38.55 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 16:40.00 | aloril | Elrond: see http://www.aeinnovations.com/projects/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann |
| 16:40.49 | Elrond | BTW: Is bugzilla a little slow currently? |
| 16:41.40 | aloril | covert HMD would be nice with some speech recognition: if new word heard, show wikipedia + google for it |
| 16:42.06 | aloril | or live translation or ... |
| 16:42.07 | SpeedEvil | Naah. |
| 16:42.14 | SpeedEvil | That too maybe. |
| 16:42.28 | SpeedEvil | Glance recognition would be _ultimately_ cool. |
| 16:42.29 | aloril | *recognition* part? |
| 16:42.34 | SpeedEvil | Add in face recognition. |
| 16:42.42 | aloril | yeah, that too |
| 16:42.48 | SpeedEvil | Little tags hovering over peoples heads. |
| 16:42.59 | SpeedEvil | Never forget a name again. |
| 16:43.01 | aloril | record 24h and then "where I have seen this person, etc.." |
| 16:43.09 | Elrond | *G* |
| 16:43.09 | aloril | and place, etc.. |
| 16:43.21 | mjr | yes, our reality needs augmenting |
| 16:43.27 | *** join/#openmoko strtok (n=strtok@thales.strtok.net) |
| 16:43.31 | SpeedEvil | And a 'what I did when I was drunk' log. |
| 16:43.39 | Elrond | *lol* |
| 16:44.11 | mjr | there was actually a very good sketch about a drunk-log in one of the finnish comedy series once |
| 16:44.26 | aloril | low quality recording is possible now: 5KB/s for something like 160x120 video |
| 16:44.28 | Elrond | So next time Speedevil gets drunk, we'll put some other stuff in his "drunk log" ;-) |
| 16:44.35 | SpeedEvil | Alas. |
| 16:44.37 | SpeedEvil | I'm boring. |
| 16:44.43 | SpeedEvil | I don't drink alcohols. |
| 16:44.59 | aloril | or 500MB/day or 200GB/year |
| 16:45.22 | mjr | "jurrikamera", it was called; showed the guy ending up eventually against a table surrounded by fetishists and rocking rhythmically back'n'forth |
| 16:45.22 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, choose another target ;) |
| 16:45.22 | aloril | even that could be surprisingly useful "where did I put that?" |
| 16:45.27 | SpeedEvil | A gig a day is 11K |
| 16:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A568A8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:45.49 | SpeedEvil | aloril: combine with a tiny UV flash, and UV barcodes. |
| 16:45.58 | SpeedEvil | Barcode everything you own. |
| 16:45.59 | aloril | still fits on one hard disk this year |
| 16:46.42 | SpeedEvil | And a memory card come 2015 or so. |
| 16:47.14 | Elrond | Is {wiki,bugzilla}.openmoko.org slashdotted? |
| 16:47.49 | SpeedEvil | not talking to me |
| 16:47.58 | aloril | well.. in 2-5 years you could up quality to 0.5G/h or 10G/day or 4TB/year which allows reasonable quality |
| 16:48.03 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 16:48.23 | aloril | question is more how much you want to pay for complete memory/year |
| 16:48.48 | aloril | 4TB is now about 1000 EUR |
| 16:49.35 | aloril | Elrond: it was at least digged |
| 16:49.53 | aloril | http://digg.com/linux_unix/OpenMoko_the_Anti_iPhone |
| 16:54.57 | Vegar | will there still be a P1.5? |
| 16:55.13 | aloril | Vegar: it looks like P1.5 and P2 have merged |
| 16:55.29 | aloril | Vegar: hardware was planned to be same all the time I think |
| 16:55.31 | SpeedEvil | Yep. |
| 16:55.38 | SpeedEvil | Looks so ratehr. |
| 16:55.43 | SpeedEvil | P1.5=P2 |
| 16:55.50 | thomasg_ | concerning the hardware: yes |
| 16:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 16:56.16 | Vegar | what about software? |
| 16:56.51 | thomasg_ | they may change, because p1.5 will be sold for developers/interested people and p2 will be mass market and maybe come a bit later |
| 16:57.21 | thomasg_ | and as the software is opensource, the changes steadily |
| 16:58.46 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (i=behdad@nat/redhat-ca/x-0ec9279df1b30459) |
| 16:58.48 | *** join/#openmoko miclevles (n=miclevle@121.1.53.10) |
| 16:58.52 | Elrond | I hope it gets way more stable for mass market.. |
| 17:00.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:00.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Neither would I. |
| 17:02.00 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.9) |
| 17:02.06 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16) |
| 17:02.10 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 17:02.21 | aloril | neither me: |
| 17:02.23 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:02.25 | aloril | counter |
| 17:02.25 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 2 days 18:57:34 (9.790±1.0 days) (1648;242) |
| 17:02.29 | aloril | (see page ;-) |
| 17:02.38 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 17:08.53 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@wlan-client-132.informatik.uni-bremen.de) |
| 17:11.42 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 17:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 17:12.48 | LuitvD | good afternoon |
| 17:13.00 | Elrond | Hi LuitvD :-) |
| 17:13.09 | LuitvD | :) |
| 17:13.22 | Elrond | Ha, running the Neo at 1.66*default-dpi makkes it nice to read for me :-) |
| 17:13.44 | greggypoo | i'm trying to figure out if there are any providers that will give a voice+data plan for a reasonable price |
| 17:13.56 | LuitvD | Elrond: what do you mean? |
| 17:13.59 | high-rez | What's reasonable to you? |
| 17:14.04 | LuitvD | Elrond: smaller fonts? |
| 17:15.46 | Elrond | LuitvD - I've increased the dpi, that the sxserver tells to apps. And as apps think "Oh, the screen has higher resolution", they nneed to put more pixels to achieve the same "size on screen" ;-) |
| 17:16.24 | *** join/#openmoko Aria (n=aredride@betelgeuse.theinternetco.net) |
| 17:16.41 | LuitvD | Elrond: so you fool your software to get your graphics bigger? |
| 17:17.04 | Elrond | LuitvD - Right. ;-) |
| 17:17.12 | LuitvD | why bigger? |
| 17:17.21 | Elrond | LuitvD - Nott to mention, that the default-dpi is way off. |
| 17:17.32 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host52-123-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 17:17.33 | Elrond | LuitvD - Because I have bad eyes. |
| 17:17.58 | LuitvD | I'd like 16px fonts on that 300dpi I guess... |
| 17:18.24 | Elrond | You mean "unreadbale"? ;o) |
| 17:18.28 | LuitvD | I'm near-sighted :) |
| 17:18.55 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:18.56 | LuitvD | and I've got quite a good level of detail |
| 17:19.20 | Elrond | Well, the default is unreadable. So exactly, what you want. ;-9 |
| 17:19.32 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 17:19.32 | LuitvD | yay :) |
| 17:19.45 | Elrond | Hi koen |
| 17:19.59 | LuitvD | VGA screen really would be something for me ... though I don't think I'm gonna buy one... |
| 17:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:20.41 | LuitvD | huh? now it's $300? :| |
| 17:20.47 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 17:20.54 | LuitvD | wow |
| 17:20.58 | LuitvD | how did that happen? |
| 17:21.18 | SpeedEvil | I made them do it. |
| 17:21.28 | LuitvD | heh |
| 17:21.34 | LuitvD | thanks :) |
| 17:21.41 | SpeedEvil | With my little dolls, and the special needles with hot-sauce on. |
| 17:22.04 | LuitvD | you did a helluva job then |
| 17:23.10 | LuitvD | hm, is that debug board, extra battery and 2 extra cables really worth 150 bucks... :S |
| 17:23.27 | LuitvD | (oh wait, and an extra miroSD card...) |
| 17:23.44 | SpeedEvil | case |
| 17:23.53 | LuitvD | what is that 'toolbox' ... |
| 17:23.55 | LuitvD | how big is it? |
| 17:24.13 | GaKKGaKk | Short recipe for HMD: Take small LCD, remove backlight. Now you can see the images only in daylight... Which doesn't matter since at night you don't see anything else than the screen anyway, so you could use the Moko screen :) |
| 17:24.24 | aloril | LuitvD: instead of keeping track who bought GTA01B_v04 and give discount to GTA02 buyers they decided to give discount for all GTA01B_v04 buyers |
| 17:24.43 | GaKKGaKk | Since the light goes trough the lcd, you will get darker image of teh world => built in sunglasses :P |
| 17:24.45 | LuitvD | aloril: smart :) |
| 17:24.45 | juri_ | lcd isn't worth it. oled is where its at. :) |
| 17:25.01 | GaKKGaKk | oled has built in light, no? = no see trough. |
| 17:25.08 | Aria | Right. |
| 17:25.36 | LuitvD | aloril: I wonder how this price compares to the real value ... |
| 17:27.00 | SpeedEvil | GaKKGaKk: need two neos |
| 17:27.07 | GaKKGaKk | My friend burned a hole in his laptop screen... The backlight was toast, but the lcd itself worked fine, so i removed everything else (including the back of the screen), and the screen works very nice as long as there is light behind it. (in front of a window, or outside)... Very Minority report :P |
| 17:27.30 | GaKKGaKk | SpeedEvil: If you want stereovision :D |
| 17:27.33 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:28.02 | LuitvD | GaKKGaKk: nice :) |
| 17:29.03 | LuitvD | wow, july 9 is right after my second payday :) |
| 17:29.53 | LuitvD | the amount of money I get by then is enaugh to get one :) |
| 17:30.07 | LuitvD | now I'm really unsure about what phone to buy :P |
| 17:30.30 | Aria | I've been holding out for a Moko |
| 17:31.24 | Kero | hi Aria, also in this channel? :) |
| 17:31.34 | Aria | Indeed. |
| 17:32.15 | SpeedEvil | np: Bonnie Tyler - Holding on for a Moko. |
| 17:34.16 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@unaffiliated/sudharsh) |
| 17:34.23 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D848A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:35.03 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 17:40.51 | GaKKGaKk | Huhm... seems like OLED is old news... TOLED is the new black... Or rather, the new transparent. |
| 17:41.17 | Kero | what's the T stand for? |
| 17:41.26 | *** part/#openmoko guillaum1 (n=gzba4143@AMontsouris-153-1-24-190.w86-212.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:41.31 | GaKKGaKk | Transparent. |
| 17:41.32 | Aria | Transparent. |
| 17:41.41 | GaKKGaKk | FTOLED was even better :D |
| 17:41.54 | Kero | Flexible :) |
| 17:42.33 | GaKKGaKk | You learn fast :D |
| 17:43.17 | LuitvD | why transparent oled? |
| 17:43.19 | GaKKGaKk | When they increase the resolution, we will get HDFTOLED... Try saying that fast! |
| 17:43.25 | LuitvD | oled transmits light... |
| 17:43.28 | Kero | on glass ? |
| 17:43.33 | Aria | On flexible plastic. |
| 17:43.47 | LuitvD | oh, wait, never mind :) transparent oled is great XD |
| 17:43.51 | LuitvD | I've seen it |
| 17:43.53 | GaKKGaKk | LuitvD: it emitts light, only where there is something to show :) |
| 17:43.59 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist_-_Hardware_-_Novel_Devices]] |
| 17:44.05 | LuitvD | GaKKGaKk: or blocks light |
| 17:44.16 | GaKKGaKk | or even MAKES it... woa! |
| 17:44.17 | LuitvD | GaKKGaKk: some OLED types can block light too |
| 17:44.25 | LuitvD | most just transmit |
| 17:44.37 | LuitvD | transmit and block |
| 17:44.43 | Aria | Real-life alpha compositing ;-) |
| 17:44.44 | GaKKGaKk | Well... if they block light.. they will not be "Light Emitting Diodes" |
| 17:44.57 | GaKKGaKk | OLBD? |
| 17:45.17 | Aria | DED |
| 17:45.21 | Aria | Darkness emitting diodes. |
| 17:45.23 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 17:45.24 | Kero | block and emit, why not? |
| 17:45.25 | GaKKGaKk | heh |
| 17:45.30 | LuitvD | that's just plain wrong, DED |
| 17:45.32 | Elrond | 1.66*defaultdpi appmanager (dialer and terminal to the left/right): http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/663016576/ |
| 17:45.39 | Aria | Yeah, I hear the prototypes suck. |
| 17:45.45 | Kero | blacklight. holy grail of lighting |
| 17:45.46 | Aria | (cue the booing) |
| 17:46.15 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@roa76-7-88-167-36-36.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:46.23 | LuitvD | Elrond: do you really like that size? |
| 17:46.56 | Kero | prototypes always suck. for one thing they're not for sale :) |
| 17:47.26 | *** join/#openmoko some1___ (n=some1@p54A0D0F1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:47.32 | GaKKGaKk | HMHDFTOLODED - "Head Mounted High Definition Flexible Transparent Organic Light Or Dark Emitting Diode"... Coming to your Moko... in 3.46 days +/- eternity |
| 17:47.49 | happycube | lol |
| 17:48.20 | Elrond | LuitvD - The layout is b0rked, I know. It was a "for fun experiment". |
| 17:49.04 | Elrond | LuitvD - But the menu font (on the appmanger): I can read it using my normal glasses, instead of using the microscope. |
| 17:49.19 | LuitvD | Elrond: how's the performance? |
| 17:49.41 | Elrond | LuitvD - You mean compared to default_DPI? No noticeable change. |
| 17:49.53 | LuitvD | Elrond: nice |
| 17:50.05 | LuitvD | Elrond: but I mean, is it faster then some early demos? |
| 17:50.09 | LuitvD | overall speed |
| 17:57.09 | *** join/#openmoko gcb77 (n=gbarta@67.96.209.70) |
| 17:57.35 | *** join/#openmoko antimoof (n=dogcow@veal.babymeat.com) |
| 17:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0CA9A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:59.23 | antimoof | so, there's lots of goo about the studly specs for the inside of the 1973 (although wtf you'd need a graphics accelerator, I have no idea) - but wtf are the details for the actual _cellphone_ bit? or hell, what the display resolution is going to be? |
| 17:59.24 | aloril | antimoof: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:59.54 | SpeedEvil | look at the neo1973 page on wiki |
| 17:59.59 | antimoof | yeah, reading it now. |
| 18:01.10 | Elrond | LuitvD - It feels a bit faster than when I got the toy (hmm, less then a month, I think). But maybe I just have accustomed to the slowness ;o) |
| 18:02.34 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:07.39 | antimoof | oho, it's got an arm920t core. |
| 18:07.55 | Elrond | antimoof - Yep. |
| 18:07.58 | antimoof | (and thank god it's not using an intel part.) |
| 18:08.15 | antimoof | even with the errata, they were so. amazingly. painful. |
| 18:11.28 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@202.140.50.194) |
| 18:11.49 | ravan | where is task-openmoko-linux package located? |
| 18:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-77-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:14.25 | antimoof | is there an actual pinout of the debug port? granted, the pcb silkscreen has most of the essentials (along with the ncie large harness test points.) |
| 18:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko FourDollars (n=FourDoll@59-104-128-153.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 18:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora-study (i=matteo@147.162.137.9) |
| 18:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-77-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 18:18.48 | antimoof | or perhaps more importantly: is there a on-flash version of devirginate that can repopulate a mostly-bricked phone from SD? |
| 18:21.21 | aloril | as long u-boot is OK you can use USB-DFU |
| 18:21.26 | *** join/#openmoko jserv2 (n=jserv@linux3.cc.ntu.edu.tw) |
| 18:21.31 | cjb | antimoof: it's a little hard to imagine a bricking scenario that wouldn't take that functionality out too. |
| 18:22.20 | antimoof | I'm mostly thinking of a situation where I've got my laptop and for some inexplicable reason I'm trying to flash a new image where I've fucked up the kernel, but still have minimal functionality. |
| 18:23.37 | antimoof | typical stupid developer tricks, in other words. |
| 18:24.16 | cjb | then you just use dfu to flash a new kernel/root image |
| 18:24.21 | cjb | don't even need the debug board. |
| 18:24.28 | Elrond | antimoof - Just but u-boot, use DFU to upload a new kernel/rootfs. |
| 18:24.52 | Elrond | I use DFU regularly to load a kernel into RAM and boot it there. |
| 18:24.52 | antimoof | 'k, that's what I wanted to know. cool. |
| 18:25.16 | cjb | antimoof: the debug board is basically for firmware developers |
| 18:25.57 | aloril | u-boot developers that is |
| 18:26.21 | Elrond | And for people who absolutely need serial console for hardcore kernel development. |
| 18:26.24 | aloril | (and you get console for kernel too or something like that) |
| 18:26.34 | Elrond | ... I hope g_serial will once support console. |
| 18:27.31 | Elrond | antimoof - u-boot running, kernel loaded into RAM via USB: http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/523490336/in/set-72157600292781326/ |
| 18:28.32 | antimoof | presumably, the kernel/apps are pretty thumb-heavy? |
| 18:29.47 | strtok | anyone have any idea how fast the developer phones are going to sell? |
| 18:31.06 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 18:31.22 | Elrond | antimoof - You mean the UI? |
| 18:31.48 | antimoof | no, I mean the ARM THUMB instructions. |
| 18:32.19 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 18:32.31 | Elrond | I'm not very sure. But I doubt it. |
| 18:32.52 | antimoof | really? huh. it's one of the canonical ways to save lots of space for little performance penalty. |
| 18:33.17 | antimoof | (but that said, I've never dealt with ARM on leenooks, so I don't know how nicely the two play together.) |
| 18:33.30 | galexande | i assume it all depends on whether or not gcc or gas is smart about using thumb alternatives |
| 18:33.36 | Elrond | "leenooks"? |
| 18:33.39 | galexande | i'm guessing not :) |
| 18:33.59 | Elrond | galexande - Exactly my conclusion. |
| 18:34.02 | antimoof | well, you can -mthumb or something like that. (and 'leenooks' is how linus pronounced linux.) |
| 18:34.05 | galexande | at any rate, the neo1973 has a ton of memory for such a tiny little device |
| 18:34.20 | SpeedEvil | My lappy has the sama amount ATM. |
| 18:34.22 | antimoof | well, more importantly, it fits more nicely inside the cache. |
| 18:34.37 | SpeedEvil | And Ive got 8 xterms open, and 30 windows open in FF |
| 18:35.00 | SpeedEvil | 30 tabs in 2 windows rather |
| 18:35.08 | thomasg_ | firefox is totally fucked up here |
| 18:35.25 | thomasg_ | at 10 tabs and some sites with java script etc. it sucks 80% cpu (athlon64) |
| 18:35.32 | SpeedEvil | 18777 root 15 0 159m 67m 12m S 0.3 54.3 112:27.09 firefox-bin |
| 18:35.40 | thomasg_ | oh, gentoo :) |
| 18:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-2eb8bc5f9120fc35) |
| 18:35.47 | SpeedEvil | Though root isn't root here for historical reasons |
| 18:36.08 | SpeedEvil | flashblock works largely for me. |
| 18:36.37 | antimoof | xul extensions can eat lots o' cpu time. |
| 18:36.44 | antimoof | but animated gifs are the worst. |
| 18:36.58 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 18:37.05 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:37.23 | SpeedEvil | Well - flash is worst. |
| 18:37.26 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 18:42.12 | thomasg_ | the biggest problem for me is a site with a bittorrent-tracker-interface (should be javascript and so on) |
| 18:50.13 | aloril | strtok: depends on when /., digg notice (but I guess it could sell out before that even) |
| 18:51.22 | aloril | strtok: there will be more later, FIC supposedly can produce as many phones as we can buy, but there will some delay: week(s) (to even months if demand is big) |
| 18:52.09 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 18:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 18:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko thor^^ (n=Thor@216-27-138.0512.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 18:53.29 | thor^^ | hi |
| 18:53.57 | aloril | it could be that it takes week or few for 1000 units to sell, but I think most except it to happen in a day (at least I will try to order as fast as possible ;-) |
| 18:53.59 | ravan | where is task-openmoko-linux package located? |
| 18:56.30 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-151-185-14.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 18:56.32 | aloril | FIC is big company, it can produce millions of them if there is demand ;-) |
| 18:56.37 | alphaone | ravan: in oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb |
| 18:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko bhima|n800 (n=bhima@mobile-166-214-126-029.mycingular.net) |
| 18:59.08 | antimoof | is it known what gsm signaling protocols the calypso stuff can do? CDMA? CDMA2000? W-CDMA? |
| 18:59.08 | galexande | so, is there a list of services/providers that work with the gsm/gprs in the openmoko? |
| 18:59.09 | aloril | what do others think: how long it takes to sell out or is 1000 units even enough to meet demand? |
| 18:59.16 | aloril | faq? |
| 18:59.16 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 18:59.28 | aloril | galexande: that was for you |
| 18:59.32 | ravan | alphaone: thanks |
| 18:59.32 | antimoof | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_compatible_cellphone_providers |
| 18:59.41 | galexande | aloril, thanks i was looking through that yesterday but somehow missed the relevant one |
| 18:59.42 | buz | i think i wait for gta02 |
| 18:59.58 | buz | and i suspect plenty of people will |
| 19:00.19 | thor^^ | is it possible to install openmoko on my pocket pc? |
| 19:00.19 | aloril | thor^^: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:00.27 | thomasg_ | I cannot wait, so gta01 will be mine :) |
| 19:00.34 | aloril | buz: yeah, but still I except it to sell out |
| 19:00.44 | buz | paying 300$ for a device already known to be obsolete somehow doesnt seem so tempting |
| 19:01.12 | buz | until someone ports openmoko to the ihphone, i dont give a ratsass about the iphone |
| 19:01.40 | aloril | buz: I don't consider it obsolete and besides I would like to have 2 devices anyway (for neo<->neo fun) |
| 19:02.03 | buz | well i wanted wifi from the begin |
| 19:02.04 | aloril | for example: 2 player Go game with each one having Neo1973 |
| 19:02.14 | buz | plus its said that gta01 is dog slow rightnow |
| 19:02.49 | aloril | buz: there has not been much optimization, so I except it to get faster eventually |
| 19:03.09 | LuitvD | this monday apple will announce their european iPhone ... |
| 19:03.09 | galexande | i guess what i'm trying to find out is which plans you need...because on at&t i am seeing like $30 (300 voice minutes) + $60 (unlimited data) = $90, but they have a special plan for the iphone that will be $65 for all that and a bag of chips |
| 19:03.20 | buz | yeah but once it's supplanted by gta02 offering both faster cpu AND gpu, optimization might not be very tempting for many |
| 19:03.42 | buz | i suggest you dont eat chips when using a touchscreen SCNR |
| 19:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X02ed.x.pppool.de) |
| 19:03.50 | *** join/#openmoko some1_ (n=some1@p54A0CA9A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:03.50 | galexande | buz, it's not an obsoleted device, it's your first chance to have a convenient overpowered unix computer in your cellphone |
| 19:04.09 | buz | overpowered? i find my pentium m 1.6ghz to be sorely lacking |
| 19:04.16 | galexande | picky picky |
| 19:04.25 | Basheri | lol |
| 19:04.27 | aloril | buz: slow -> fast on GTA01 would be acceptable -> fluid on GTA02 |
| 19:05.09 | buz | suppose the ui goes towards 3d stuff. you're SOL with gta01 then |
| 19:05.28 | galexande | i'm guessing that the graphics accelerator is aimed at mpeg, not 3d |
| 19:05.48 | aloril | somebody needs to connect 100 text terminals to GTA01 make feature for TV networks in which its compared to old mainframes connected to similar number of text terminals ;-) |
| 19:05.50 | buz | s3c2442 could do mpeg4 on its own, probably |
| 19:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (i=timr@205.233.55.201) |
| 19:06.32 | galexande | i can do low-res mpeg on my ipaq (206mhz strongarm), but the neo is full vga |
| 19:06.59 | buz | practically, QVGA video is more than good enough for neo size screen |
| 19:07.08 | galexande | but i believe it has vga |
| 19:07.11 | GaKKGaKk | Think it can do Transport Tycoon Deluxe on GTA01 without the GPU? Cause then it might be worth the price... :D |
| 19:07.21 | GaKKGaKk | (open TTD ofcourse) |
| 19:07.31 | mmp | btw, any idea what codec/resolution was used on the demonstration in moko ninjutsu videos? |
| 19:07.34 | aloril | buz: in my opinion GTA01 has plenty of power (I think it has blazingly fast CPU compared to what I have now for example) |
| 19:08.50 | buz | it not that much that i cant afford the 300$, it's more of matter of not being able to justify them |
| 19:09.13 | galexande | the only part that i find hard to jsutify is paying like $600/year in excess cell phone bills for data |
| 19:09.19 | aloril | buz: it sounds very much you probably want to wait, I'm not trying to get you buy GTA01B_v04 ;-) |
| 19:09.34 | mjr | galexande, yes it has a vga screen, the point was that qvga res _video_ is good enough for the screen |
| 19:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko lengau (n=lengau@c-76-22-213-228.hsd1.tn.comcast.net) |
| 19:09.55 | aloril | buz: not so for me, GTA01B_v04 is *huge* step, GTA02 is relatively small step compared to it |
| 19:10.21 | galexande | i suspect the gpu will make the difference between resampling all your videos to qvga or lower, and just playing them directly |
| 19:10.29 | galexande | aloril, you have phase 0 device? |
| 19:10.30 | aloril | buz: basically going from "no cell phone linux box to having one" ;-) (almost from 0.0 to 1.0 ;-) |
| 19:10.38 | galexande | oh :) |
| 19:10.40 | aloril | galexande: nope, I'm waiting in line |
| 19:10.40 | galexande | amen |
| 19:10.49 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 19:10.50 | mjr | galexande, probably |
| 19:10.58 | mjr | on the gpu thing |
| 19:11.06 | mjr | at least if you're playing mpeg4 (non-h263) |
| 19:11.53 | buz | that's non h264 |
| 19:12.09 | mjr | oops |
| 19:12.16 | aloril | or.... well there is this tiny screen and shell, so not 0.0, but... say 0.2 (now) -> 0.8 (GTA01B_v04) -> 0.9 (GTA02) -> 1.0 (GTA03?) |
| 19:12.34 | aloril | GPU is interestsing for OpenGL too |
| 19:12.44 | buz | neverball ;) |
| 19:13.15 | buz | tetris maybe |
| 19:13.18 | mmp | from my PoV, GTA02 is Neo "Neverball edition" :) |
| 19:13.20 | mjr | aloril, OMG wobbly windows FTW LOL |
| 19:13.20 | buz | finally moving the damn device will do something |
| 19:13.26 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@205.233.53.236) |
| 19:13.28 | alphaone | neverball was already fun on my IBM Thinkpad X40 with accelerometer :-) |
| 19:13.30 | aloril | being able to call/answer is just excuse actually ;-) |
| 19:14.28 | buz | does the gpu have aiglx support? |
| 19:14.29 | buz | SCNR |
| 19:14.59 | orospakr | heh, you guys talking about the upcoming 3d accelerator? |
| 19:15.09 | orospakr | will it actually have a Free X driver that does GLX? |
| 19:15.09 | buz | compiz fusion on a phone now that would be nice |
| 19:15.13 | aloril | buz: I think at the moment its plain VGA support that is being coded... dunno how long before 3D related drivers .. |
| 19:15.18 | SpeedEvil | 2D accel |
| 19:15.20 | orospakr | buz: might help compete with the "iphone". :P |
| 19:15.39 | buz | i suggest to call gta02 mePhone |
| 19:15.40 | aloril | orospakr: I except it to have good 3D support (based on comments in that video) |
| 19:15.44 | buz | or myPhone maybe? |
| 19:15.48 | galexande | aloril, you have a cellphone with a shell? |
| 19:15.53 | orospakr | aloril, video? |
| 19:16.00 | aloril | galexande: midpssh |
| 19:16.05 | orospakr | someone at the conference here has a p0 |
| 19:16.12 | orospakr | I saw them on bluetooth ;) |
| 19:16.17 | galexande | heh, oh |
| 19:16.18 | aloril | counter |
| 19:16.18 | aloril | (last update 2007-06-28T13:46) http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 60% for P1 in a week, 2 days 16:43:42 (9.697±1.0 days) (1649;242) |
| 19:16.26 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@tmo-080-46.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 19:16.27 | aloril | see tossug video linked from above page |
| 19:18.42 | aloril | 1.43M triangles per second, etc.. from http://www.smediatech.com/Glamo3370_DM.pdf |
| 19:19.55 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 19:20.21 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@74-140-187-27.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 19:21.25 | aloril2 | anyway, using modfied midpssh now on low resolution screen, so reaction times not so good anymore ;-) |
| 19:21.33 | antimoof | I find it fascinating how for many people it's almost a secondary consideration that the Neo is a phone. |
| 19:21.46 | aloril2 | hehe |
| 19:22.30 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:23.26 | galexande | antimoof i don't think so....otherwise we'd be using the extant linux pdas rather than the upcoming linux phones |
| 19:24.33 | juri_ | i'm looking for a linux phone to integrate into my <content removed>. |
| 19:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 19:27.09 | *** part/#openmoko thor^^ (n=Thor@216-27-138.0512.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 19:29.01 | antimoof | never underestimate the new/shiny/leet factor, heh. (compare with chumby, meraki, etc.) |
| 19:29.38 | aloril2 | GPRS on the other hand does matter, PDA doesn't have that |
| 19:30.08 | antimoof | yeah. and why I was hoping there'd be more info on the chipset; I may be moving to japan Real Soon, and if it doesn't have the capability of UMTS 2100... :( |
| 19:31.02 | mjr | for any phone, the phoneness is for me a secondary consideration |
| 19:31.09 | mjr | antimoof, it doesn't |
| 19:31.26 | antimoof | yeah, figured as such. nobody save the japanese really use it. |
| 19:31.34 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@151.Red-83-32-165.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:31.42 | mjr | quad-band GSM |
| 19:43.19 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 19:43.35 | aloril2 | OT: Prince 'giving' away CD with newspaper and reactions to it is hilarious |
| 19:43.43 | *** join/#openmoko nosyjoe_ (n=philipp@ppp-82-135-77-194.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 19:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko macogw (n=macogw@unaffiliated/macogw) |
| 19:46.55 | *** join/#openmoko bhima|n800 (n=bhima@mobile-166-214-211-173.mycingular.net) |
| 19:49.46 | macogw | can the neo1973 sync with computers? |
| 19:50.45 | don-o | macogw: the neo1973 can speak usb |
| 19:51.54 | macogw | but is there some kind of software to make it sync with calendar, contacts, etc., and if so for what OSes? |
| 19:52.18 | macogw | my boss has been looking for a smartphone and cant find anything that'll work with her mac |
| 19:52.55 | don-o | macogw: if you're looking for reliable one-touch operation, this aint it. the software is alpha quality, beta at best. |
| 19:53.44 | don-o | macogw: i mean my god, even the hardware is beta. |
| 19:53.57 | don-o | macogw: if you're trying to help your boss, get her an iPhone. |
| 19:54.03 | *** join/#openmoko thor^^ (n=Thor@216-27-138.0512.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 19:54.14 | thor^^ | hey |
| 19:54.16 | macogw | heh |
| 19:54.30 | thor^^ | anyone know what's needed to flash a ppc rom? |
| 19:54.37 | thor^^ | with open moko ofcorse |
| 19:54.40 | macogw | i thought the hardware was done since the site says theyre orderable, but ok |
| 19:54.47 | don-o | thor^^: no but it's probably confusing to call it ROM |
| 19:55.11 | don-o | macogw: this is the first round of hardware expected to be purchased by people working on the software |
| 19:55.12 | thor^^ | ok what should i call it then? |
| 19:55.17 | macogw | i see |
| 19:55.30 | thor^^ | when i'm not calling it a rom(wich it is) |
| 19:55.48 | don-o | thor^^: how do i update the flash-ram, might be better. |
| 19:56.01 | don-o | thor^^: rom by definition cannot be updated. |
| 19:56.10 | thor^^ | it can |
| 19:56.14 | thor^^ | flashing ;P |
| 19:56.30 | don-o | thor^^: you have an interesting definition of rom. |
| 19:56.47 | thor^^ | The rom is used for the os, the ram is used for applications |
| 19:56.54 | thor^^ | that's how my ppc is build |
| 19:57.14 | don-o | thor^^: would you agree that 'flashing' is the same as 'writing'? |
| 19:57.23 | thor^^ | sort of |
| 19:57.32 | thor^^ | and don't come say it's not possible |
| 19:57.33 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@host234-74-dynamic.8-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:57.39 | thor^^ | i've done it many times before |
| 19:57.42 | bedboi | WOW!!! |
| 19:57.46 | bedboi | That's it |
| 19:57.48 | don-o | sort of contradicts the acronym, doesnt it. |
| 19:57.49 | bedboi | 9 july |
| 19:57.54 | don-o | bedboi: yup. whoho! |
| 19:57.56 | thor^^ | not really |
| 19:58.04 | bedboi | why not really? :) |
| 19:58.19 | thor^^ | cause your bios is a rom, it can be updated |
| 19:58.32 | thor^^ | and everything labled Rom is writable |
| 19:58.41 | thor^^ | it's just protected from normal writing |
| 19:58.46 | bedboi | thor^^: i thought you were talking about "9 july" |
| 19:58.53 | thor^^ | lol xD |
| 19:59.02 | bedboi | Is it true? |
| 19:59.10 | don-o | i guess if you were born after the 70s, all 'rom' is flash ram these days. |
| 19:59.25 | thor^^ | nope |
| 19:59.25 | don-o | bedboi: check out openmoko.com |
| 19:59.29 | don-o | bedboi: its pretty true |
| 20:00.13 | thor^^ | I've worked with programming a Rom, wich happends to be older than you |
| 20:00.50 | don-o | thor^^: do you mean EEPROM |
| 20:01.42 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 20:01.44 | thor^^ | idc, i did't come here to fight, i came here to get answers ^^ |
| 20:01.55 | aloril2 | don-o: hehe, in this case I can agree with iPhone recommendation ;-) |
| 20:02.20 | don-o | aloril2: :) |
| 20:02.31 | don-o | thor^^: i dont know the answer to the original question, so i'll just shut up now :) |
| 20:03.00 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (i=timr@205.233.55.201) |
| 20:03.02 | thor^^ | :) |
| 20:03.16 | happycube | i'd mind a clamshell gta01 with buttons, actually |
| 20:03.20 | happycube | *i'd like |
| 20:03.38 | don-o | i want a screen big enough to watch episodes of battlestar galactica |
| 20:03.47 | macogw | i hate the thought of having to deal with more of apple's braindead products (note: "braindead" for reasons which would label this "holy war" not for objective reasons) |
| 20:03.52 | happycube | ;) i think that's one of the three next year |
| 20:04.10 | don-o | happycube: indeed. yippe. |
| 20:04.10 | happycube | gta02 should be good for watching BSG... if you have a magnifying glass |
| 20:04.16 | don-o | lol |
| 20:04.24 | thor^^ | lol |
| 20:05.00 | thor^^ | i'm watching BSG on my k750i :P |
| 20:05.08 | don-o | thor^^: HA |
| 20:05.10 | macogw | if i ever get a smartphone, i think it'll have to be crackberry |
| 20:05.13 | macogw | they have buttons |
| 20:05.26 | juco | blech |
| 20:05.35 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 20:05.38 | don-o | oh gawd not a RIM product. those baseless-patent-enforcing beep-beeps. |
| 20:05.39 | macogw | oh great the next crackberry probably wont have buttons thanks to the current obsession with touchscreens |
| 20:06.07 | macogw | well if you can name another smartphone that uses real tactile-feedback-having buttons, let me know |
| 20:06.22 | don-o | touchscreens signal the glorious return of the PDA. |
| 20:06.33 | macogw | yuck |
| 20:06.44 | macogw | any phone that i cant dial without looking is a P.O.S. |
| 20:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.55.37) |
| 20:07.11 | juco | you dial your phone without looking? |
| 20:07.12 | don-o | macogw: i see. voicedialing over a bluetooth earpiece? |
| 20:07.42 | macogw | as far as i can see on apple's website, the iphone doesnt do voicedialing |
| 20:08.00 | don-o | macogw: yeah i was just throwing that out there. it probably will in a future update :) |
| 20:08.14 | macogw | and bluetooth earpieces make you look like a tool |
| 20:08.19 | macogw | or a crazie |
| 20:08.31 | macogw | or both |
| 20:08.33 | don-o | or super-fly |
| 20:08.55 | macogw | i generally think theyre talking to themselves |
| 20:09.11 | deepank | alphaone:around |
| 20:09.18 | macogw | at least if you have a wire hanging from your ear, people can tell you're not nuts |
| 20:09.24 | alphaone | deepank: yeah |
| 20:09.49 | Elrond | Hi alphaone! |
| 20:09.52 | deepank | alphaone:help me, still getting no device |
| 20:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178102008.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:09.58 | alphaone | Elrond: Hi |
| 20:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 20:10.52 | alphaone | deepank: Hmm, you installed bluez-utils and bluez-libs version 3.11? |
| 20:11.29 | deepank | alphaone:i installed 3.12 version form source code |
| 20:11.31 | alphaone | deepank: And you changed Autostart=true in /etc/bluetooth/network.service? |
| 20:11.37 | alphaone | okay |
| 20:12.27 | macogw | actually, the regular buttons on regular phones nowadays are rather sucky too. razrs have those lame metal plates that you cant feel if it got the press or if it took it 3x. mine i can kinda feel where buttons begin and end, but sometimes it feels like it dialed when it didnt. they should bring back the rubber ones that you could feel easily, like on a Nokia 5190 |
| 20:12.45 | deepank | alphaone:I do not have that file |
| 20:12.54 | deepank | that is the problem |
| 20:13.06 | alphaone | deepank: Maybe a configure option? |
| 20:13.31 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@3e44b7ca.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:14.25 | deepank | alphaone: I will check and tell you. What does this option do? |
| 20:15.52 | alphaone | deepank: I'm not even sure it exists. Just an idea. I |
| 20:16.20 | alphaone | I'll look into the ebuild and try to see if it does anything out of the ordinary here. |
| 20:16.36 | aloril2 | macogw: there are 3 models after GTA02: almost nothing is told about them, maybe some of them have keyboard |
| 20:16.46 | macogw | mmmk |
| 20:17.01 | don-o | there is a very small bluetooth keyboard that can be used with the neo :) |
| 20:17.24 | don-o | macogw: you could dial from your pocket-keyboard in one pocket, talking to the neo in the other pocket. |
| 20:17.44 | bedboi | talking in the pocket ? :) |
| 20:17.46 | don-o | macogw: while wearing sunglasses and looking straight up. its the ultimate :) |
| 20:17.59 | don-o | bedboi: oh good point. throw in a (wired!) earpiece :) |
| 20:18.08 | macogw | O_o |
| 20:18.08 | bedboi | Nah!!! |
| 20:18.17 | macogw | youd look like Ford Prefect |
| 20:18.17 | don-o | cant have anyone thinking macogw is some kind of freak! :) |
| 20:18.38 | bedboi | Ford Perfect rules |
| 20:19.01 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.62.226) |
| 20:19.23 | don-o | seriously though, this keyboard could be really useful. http://www.spartechnik.de/start.htm?d_Keyb_Mini_Mini_Bluetooth_Keyboard_im_Scheckkartenformat.htm |
| 20:19.36 | *** join/#openmoko ravan_ (n=ravan@202.140.50.194) |
| 20:19.57 | bedboi | A propose of Douglas Adamns...I'm reading Dirk Gentley the holistic detective.It's a good book |
| 20:20.25 | alphaone | deepank: It's probably --enable-network |
| 20:20.28 | *** part/#openmoko macogw (n=macogw@unaffiliated/macogw) |
| 20:21.07 | *** join/#openmoko macogw (n=macogw@unaffiliated/macogw) |
| 20:21.07 | macogw | wrong keyboard shortcut |
| 20:23.06 | Basheri | yeap, a keyboard would be great.. especially for irc ;) |
| 20:27.19 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.33.145) |
| 20:27.31 | thomasg_ | well, maybe there will be really cool touchscreen solutions |
| 20:27.37 | thomasg_ | in the wiki are some nice things |
| 20:27.51 | alphaone | deepank_: It's probably --enable-network |
| 20:29.05 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde_ (i=woglinde@e178075226.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:29.06 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@141.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:30.09 | *** join/#openmoko ScaredyCat (n=ScaredyC@ACD1ECB7.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:30.36 | ScaredyCat | july 9th ? |
| 20:31.02 | ScaredyCat | s/?/:O/ |
| 20:31.34 | bedboi | i fear that there will be too much orders |
| 20:32.00 | bedboi | and that neo will be sold out in 1 day |
| 20:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko ravan (n=ravan@202.140.50.194) |
| 20:32.23 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A360D7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:33.10 | ScaredyCat | yeah... |
| 20:33.17 | *** join/#openmoko deepank___ (n=deepank@59.178.34.211) |
| 20:33.20 | ScaredyCat | what about us poor europeans :( |
| 20:33.23 | Kero | "it's a totally worthless piece of hardware, without any software to run, better spend your money elsewhere" |
| 20:33.32 | Kero | if I scare you. I can buy :) |
| 20:33.51 | ScaredyCat | yeah... that's gonna work in here ... ;) |
| 20:33.59 | Basheri | yeap, poor us =( |
| 20:34.23 | Kero | perhaps I should complain om forums like /. instead :P |
| 20:34.30 | happycube | i actually think orders'll pick up over time as people buy some for embedded/special apps... i could see quantity orders later on |
| 20:34.34 | happycube | (even after gta02 comes out) |
| 20:36.10 | happycube | and unlike certain other products you could use it as a pda/remote display without activating it as a phone ;) |
| 20:36.15 | happycube | ^ more likely with gta02 |
| 20:36.17 | ScaredyCat | can we preorder? |
| 20:36.22 | Kero | Jul 9 |
| 20:36.27 | Kero | I will tell you Jul 10 |
| 20:36.29 | ScaredyCat | cos we're 'special' |
| 20:36.30 | happycube | lol |
| 20:37.29 | Basheri | That's an insult =) |
| 20:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.34.211) |
| 20:37.41 | ScaredyCat | I know :) |
| 20:37.46 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 20:37.51 | Kero | he's chasing me aaway. |
| 20:38.01 | Kero | but he's not as scary a cat as he'd wish :) |
| 20:38.05 | happycube | i wonder how many zaurus sales the neo will take away ;) |
| 20:38.09 | zecke | cworth: in which circumstances cairo_scaled_font_glyph_extents is not setting extents.x_advance? |
| 20:38.24 | happycube | because even gta02 is much cheaper than a z |
| 20:38.45 | ScaredyCat | raaaarrrrrr |
| 20:39.00 | cworth | zecke: Not setting? Or setting to 0 or some other wrong value? |
| 20:39.09 | Basheri | fuck, i need to get more money |
| 20:39.36 | Basheri | i can't afford neo and t61 |
| 20:39.47 | zecke | cworth: not writing to it. At least valgrind is not seeing a write (can be a false positive) |
| 20:39.49 | happycube | i think a lot of gta01's will be used as bt/gps/gsm modules and gta02's as linux pda's (wifi) |
| 20:39.51 | cworth | zecke: I would think the answer should be never, (excepting bugs), but you might ask in #cairo to reach people (*cough* behdad *cough) who know more about fonts than I do. |
| 20:40.20 | cworth | Oh, cool, behdad is actually in this channel too, (though #cairo is still the right place I would think...). |
| 20:40.51 | alphaone | deepank: Have you found the option? |
| 20:41.24 | zecke | cworth: okay :) |
| 20:41.27 | cworth | zecke: Oh, and it won't set it at all if the scaled font is in an error state. |
| 20:41.37 | ScaredyCat | happycube, get the t61 ... |
| 20:41.38 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 20:41.51 | cworth | zecke: Check if cairo_scaled_font_status() returns CAIRO_STATUS_SUCESS or not. |
| 20:41.53 | behdad | cworth: that's a bug then. we should fill metrics with 0 or something |
| 20:41.55 | macogw | happycube, re the comment about using it as a pda without activating the phone part: i could see a lot of people doing that because they want to keep Verizon on their cell phone. Verizon > all when it comes to service area (at least in the US) |
| 20:42.10 | deepank | alphaone:--enable-network worked. changed the file |
| 20:42.16 | macogw | but verizon doenst use GSM phones |
| 20:42.17 | cworth | behdad: Yeah, just reporting what I found in the code here... |
| 20:42.41 | alphaone | deepank: Great |
| 20:42.50 | behdad | cworth: file a bug please. I have to run out in minutes |
| 20:42.57 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@76-10-144-1.dsl.teksavvy.com) |
| 20:43.53 | cworth | behdad: I'll file a big general bug---it's probably worth auditing the getters in general. |
| 20:44.44 | behdad | cworth: yep. make sure ickle reads it ;) |
| 20:45.00 | zecke | hehe |
| 20:45.34 | behdad | cworth: the code coverage report is useful btw. now some erro paths are hard to hit, but others need tests. |
| 20:45.51 | ScaredyCat | no discount on the gta02 .. :( |
| 20:46.33 | aloril2 | macogw: 12 different gestures and different vibrator feedback with current Neo1973 |
| 20:46.34 | thomasg_ | but gta01 at $300 :) |
| 20:46.42 | *** join/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.30) |
| 20:46.49 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but no wifi... |
| 20:47.40 | cworth | behdad: Yeah, I've been meaning to put up regular coverage results for a long time. |
| 20:47.55 | cworth | behdad: So that thing you found is running regularly on cairo now? |
| 20:48.07 | mjr | ScaredyCat, umm, you wouldn't have gotten the discount anyway if you didn't buy the "yeah, but no wifi" model... |
| 20:48.19 | zecke | behdad: what do you use for coverage reports? Linux Testing Project gcov wrappers? |
| 20:48.35 | mjr | so I don't see what you're complaining about |
| 20:48.43 | *** join/#openmoko afreeman_ (n=afreeman@unallocated-63-210-246-146.cvg1.bytehosting.com) |
| 20:48.51 | behdad | cworth: yes |
| 20:49.06 | behdad | zecke: Igalia is doing GNOME builds |
| 20:49.14 | ScaredyCat | mrj .. I would but gta01 + discounted 02 |
| 20:49.14 | cworth | behdad: That's awesome. We'll need to link that in to cairo's (shiny new) wiki ASAP. |
| 20:49.23 | behdad | yep |
| 20:49.59 | cworth | behdad: Bugs filed. Go catch your flight or whatever. :-) |
| 20:50.03 | ScaredyCat | buy |
| 20:50.23 | ScaredyCat | 300.00 USD=221.619 EUR=149.364 GBP |
| 20:50.31 | ScaredyCat | actually, it doesn't sound too bad now |
| 20:50.55 | happycube | no discount on 02... they cut the price on 01 intead |
| 20:51.00 | mjr | ScaredyCat, but not discounted 01 + non-discounted 02? that makes no sense, if one doesn't assume somehow that the hypothetical 02 discount would be considerably larger |
| 20:51.01 | behdad | cworth: hehe. thanks. heading home to cook actually. have friends over for dinner. will drive early in the morning |
| 20:51.48 | koen | zecke: any definitive answer on your guadec attendance |
| 20:51.51 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.40.200) |
| 20:51.58 | Kero | ohno :) |
| 20:52.01 | koen | zecke: ? |
| 20:52.20 | deepank_ | alphaone:so how did you proceed furthur, hcitool scan isnt detecting the connection now |
| 20:52.34 | *** part/#openmoko antimoof (n=dogcow@veal.babymeat.com) |
| 20:52.44 | zecke | koen: nope, the exam was moved. But the presentation is still on the monday (17th, 18th, whatever) |
| 20:53.00 | ScaredyCat | mrj, I'd assume that the 02 would cost more, and have a bigger discount... |
| 20:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko rob_ (n=rob@ACB3186B.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:53.24 | mjr | "don't assume," etc |
| 20:53.42 | ScaredyCat | yeah, I know... |
| 20:53.50 | ScaredyCat | I guess I was just hoping... :) |
| 20:54.05 | don-o | cost more AND have a bigger discount. i like that reasoning. |
| 20:54.21 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 20:54.24 | don-o | as a consumer anyways. |
| 20:54.27 | alphaone | deepank_: Sorry, I have no idea how to control that new daemon. |
| 20:54.32 | ScaredyCat | discount for 01 buyers |
| 20:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko besonen_mobile2 (n=besonen_@71-220-233-253.eugn.qwest.net) |
| 20:54.41 | alphaone | deepank_: Probably via dbus |
| 20:54.46 | galexande | i think there's a big difference between people who will pay $300 for a phone and people who will pay $450 for a phone |
| 20:54.49 | don-o | ScaredyCat: oh okay that makes more sense |
| 20:55.39 | alphaone | Does anyone in here have any experience with the new bluez-utils? (The ones that start as dbus service) |
| 20:56.24 | *** part/#openmoko yveslu (n=yves@194.235.200.30) |
| 20:56.30 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg2.demon.co.uk) |
| 20:58.11 | alphaone | deepank_: Maybe you want to see if anyone in #bluez can help you |
| 20:59.17 | galexande | i'm surprised i didn't learna bout this project earlier.. openmoko.org is great like handhelds.org |
| 20:59.21 | alphaone | deepank_: Just found http://wiki.bluez.org/wiki/Architecture maybe that will help a bit |
| 21:00.09 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 21:01.04 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.43.20) |
| 21:01.09 | ScaredyCat | multi touch |
| 21:02.33 | alphaone | deepank__: Judging from the page it seems like you need some sort of dbus bluetooth setting app that doesn't yet exist |
| 21:05.54 | *** join/#openmoko sid (n=unstable@tor/regular/sid) |
| 21:06.30 | sid | http://digg.com/tech_news/iPhone_Defective_By_Design |
| 21:06.37 | sid | If anyone here cares about the cause, digg that please. |
| 21:07.10 | *** part/#openmoko Sarpedo1 (n=caj00001@d50h127.public.uconn.edu) |
| 21:07.34 | SpeedEvil | I'm pretty much assuming the cause is the leading vowel. |
| 21:08.02 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.44.200) |
| 21:09.00 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k967.webspeed.dk) |
| 21:09.47 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178073209.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:10.25 | deepank | alphaone:yes, but I am hoping something like this exists |
| 21:13.20 | SpeedEvil | galexande: Consider it. For that $150, you get accelerometers, 2D accel - which may mean better battery life as well as better video playback - a little more flash, and a faster CPU. |
| 21:14.00 | SpeedEvil | Oh - wifi too |
| 21:14.02 | bedboi | SpeedEvil: the problem is waiting 'til october :) |
| 21:14.06 | SpeedEvil | Yeah |
| 21:14.16 | Vegar | four months |
| 21:14.18 | Vegar | it's nothing |
| 21:14.20 | ScaredyCat | so I may just wait until the 9th :) |
| 21:14.38 | SpeedEvil | However. There may be people offering stuff that can be added to your neo to upgrade it. |
| 21:14.45 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 21:14.46 | bedboi | Vegar: in 4 months i will live in 3 different continents |
| 21:14.53 | bedboi | Vegar: it's a lot of time :) |
| 21:14.59 | SpeedEvil | I'm considering offering a 'Add 3 axes accels for $40 or so' |
| 21:15.04 | ScaredyCat | hardware SpeedEvil ? |
| 21:15.04 | SpeedEvil | service |
| 21:15.09 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:15.18 | galexande | speed, sure, but i'm not going to carry something in my pocket that is that expensive |
| 21:15.28 | SpeedEvil | Many phones are that expensive. |
| 21:15.34 | galexande | yeah, and i don't own them :) |
| 21:15.36 | SpeedEvil | You can get them insured. |
| 21:15.41 | ScaredyCat | fitted SpeedEvil / |
| 21:15.42 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 21:15.53 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: fitted - in the UK wouldn't be a problem. |
| 21:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko dff (n=kebab@a88-112-64-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:16.04 | SpeedEvil | Fitted - from the rest of the world probably would. |
| 21:16.07 | hrw | galexande: my previous phone was worth 1600 pln in time when I bought it for 99 pln (with 2y contract) |
| 21:16.11 | dff | So where do i buy this? |
| 21:16.12 | aloril | dff: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:16.15 | SpeedEvil | As customs and excise don't understand. |
| 21:16.16 | ScaredyCat | that's good then.. :) UK is good for me :) |
| 21:16.22 | SpeedEvil | dff: not yet announced. |
| 21:16.32 | hrw | galexande: current one costed me 199 pln and without contract it would cost >1000 pln. |
| 21:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.47.62) |
| 21:16.37 | dff | It was supposed to come at october? |
| 21:16.44 | hrw | so neo with 300$ is <1000 pln now probably |
| 21:16.49 | SpeedEvil | The upgraded version is in Oct. |
| 21:17.00 | ScaredyCat | dff - tghat's the consumer version |
| 21:17.17 | SpeedEvil | !google 320 US dollars in pln |
| 21:17.18 | cdbot2 | 320 U.S. dollars = 897.920472 Polish zloty |
| 21:17.31 | SpeedEvil | !google 300 US dollars in pln |
| 21:17.32 | cdbot2 | 300 U.S. dollars = 841.800443 Polish zloty |
| 21:17.34 | ScaredyCat | loty |
| 21:17.34 | SpeedEvil | rather |
| 21:17.49 | dff | !google 300 US dollars in Euro |
| 21:17.51 | cdbot2 | 300 U.S. dollars = 222.915738 Euros |
| 21:17.59 | ScaredyCat | 300.00 USD=221.619 EUR=149.364 GBP |
| 21:18.08 | dff | mmm |
| 21:18.15 | ScaredyCat | xe.com |
| 21:18.17 | dff | 200euros for a phone :p |
| 21:18.24 | dff | but well its the worlds best |
| 21:18.36 | SpeedEvil | dff: look at the prices of unsubsidised phones. |
| 21:18.42 | SpeedEvil | It's not in any way out of line. |
| 21:18.52 | galexande | i haven't bought a palmtop since 2003, it's time |
| 21:18.53 | ScaredyCat | yeah, dff, this isn't locked to a carrier |
| 21:19.00 | dff | thats true :-P |
| 21:19.04 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 21:19.09 | galexande | who wants my old ipaq |
| 21:19.12 | dff | so im confused, is it out yet? |
| 21:19.17 | galexande | dff, july 9 |
| 21:20.03 | ScaredyCat | no, on the 9th, developer version, october consumer version |
| 21:20.03 | galexande | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-June/000013.html |
| 21:20.03 | galexande | who cares about consumers :) |
| 21:20.03 | dff | i dont know the months in english |
| 21:20.03 | SpeedEvil | IMO, developer or consumer is misleading. |
| 21:20.03 | SpeedEvil | dff: 13 days |
| 21:20.03 | dff | woohoo |
| 21:20.07 | ScaredyCat | 3rd from last month for consumer dff |
| 21:20.19 | SpeedEvil | At least from hardware point of view. |
| 21:20.27 | dff | so can the consumer access the source code? |
| 21:20.31 | ScaredyCat | yes |
| 21:20.37 | SpeedEvil | With Octobers software, the 'current' version will be almost as capable. |
| 21:20.43 | galexande | hahaha this is awesome, they're intentionally exposing the spi and i2c buses |
| 21:20.48 | SpeedEvil | dff: Wander over the wiki. |
| 21:20.53 | ScaredyCat | it's open....dff - that;s the point :) |
| 21:21.00 | galexande | no more "solder onto the corner of this resistor" |
| 21:21.17 | dff | lol |
| 21:21.25 | SpeedEvil | galexande: One minor annoyance - I hoped for there to be an actual connecotr. |
| 21:21.27 | SpeedEvil | But... |
| 21:21.42 | SpeedEvil | That would have made external hardware add-ons _much_ simpler. |
| 21:22.07 | galexande | it sounds like teh jtag is exposed externally |
| 21:22.29 | SpeedEvil | It is. |
| 21:22.32 | ScaredyCat | yeah, bio implants |
| 21:22.55 | ScaredyCat | it'd need a backpack... |
| 21:22.57 | dff | are there any pics of the phone open? |
| 21:23.00 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back |
| 21:23.04 | SpeedEvil | dff - yes |
| 21:23.04 | hrw | galexande: you need debug board for jtag |
| 21:23.12 | hrw | dff: yes - in wiki |
| 21:23.16 | dff | good |
| 21:23.21 | ScaredyCat | SpeedEvil, gadzooks!!!!! |
| 21:23.25 | dff | and is nokia behind all of this? |
| 21:23.30 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 |
| 21:23.32 | SpeedEvil | dff |
| 21:23.47 | dff | i bet it has to be some very rich company who can buy prototypes of a mobile phone |
| 21:23.50 | dff | or design one |
| 21:23.54 | galexande | dff, FIC |
| 21:24.02 | SpeedEvil | FIC _is_ a phone maker |
| 21:24.09 | SpeedEvil | they make several million a year. |
| 21:24.21 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, they are a subcontractor largely to Nokia et al. |
| 21:24.40 | ynezz | oh, really? |
| 21:24.44 | SpeedEvil | They want to get away from being lowest bidder on a contract making a few percent to selling it to the consumer and making 50% |
| 21:24.50 | dff | well the price isn't so bad |
| 21:24.52 | thomasg_ | FIC is not only a phone producer, they are a relatively big (OEM) computers manufacturer |
| 21:25.07 | dff | are they really supporters of Open Source or do they jsut wanna make money |
| 21:25.12 | SpeedEvil | Both. |
| 21:25.23 | SpeedEvil | They are providing core team for developing OpenMoko |
| 21:25.26 | thomasg_ | like it should be |
| 21:25.30 | SpeedEvil | and they want to be a hardware supplier. |
| 21:25.34 | dff | oh |
| 21:25.42 | ScaredyCat | yeah, but orange... where's the black :) |
| 21:25.44 | SpeedEvil | However, if Nokia leaps onto the OpenMoko bandwagon, FIC benefits. |
| 21:25.53 | thomasg_ | ScaredyCat, black-silver is also available |
| 21:25.57 | thomasg_ | orange is only one color |
| 21:26.02 | dff | well anyways open source electrinics is the way to go |
| 21:26.07 | SpeedEvil | As the volume of sales go way up, and they can compete directly on hardware. |
| 21:26.14 | SpeedEvil | It's _not_ open source electronics. |
| 21:26.23 | ScaredyCat | I guess they'd be snap on/off covers thomasg_ |
| 21:26.26 | galexande | but it's closer than anything else i'm going to buy in the next month :) |
| 21:26.27 | ScaredyCat | ? |
| 21:26.29 | dff | well open source software for electrinics |
| 21:26.32 | SpeedEvil | It's open source software, which manufacturers can choose to sell hardware for. |
| 21:26.36 | thomasg_ | ScaredyCat, they have |
| 21:26.48 | ScaredyCat | ahh good move: ) |
| 21:27.06 | thomasg_ | well, there is extremely less opensource hardware |
| 21:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@166.Red-88-9-89.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:27.28 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: the black/silver case is the current one. |
| 21:27.32 | thomasg_ | as a complex opensource hardware I only know Sun's new OpenSPARC processors |
| 21:27.47 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.47.62) |
| 21:27.57 | SpeedEvil | ScaredyCat: there have been no pictures of the black/silver phone dissasembled. But it should be identical. |
| 21:28.39 | thomasg_ | imho the black-silver is very sexy (evene I I'd like to have black anodized aluminium ^^). hope also the haptics is good |
| 21:29.22 | thomasg_ | *even if |
| 21:29.25 | ScaredyCat | black silver looks better imho |
| 21:29.39 | ScaredyCat | or just black |
| 21:29.46 | thomasg_ | yes, black is the best :) |
| 21:29.58 | galexande | it runs linux it doesn't matter if it's purple :) |
| 21:30.09 | thomasg_ | saying that looking on my black happy hacking keyboard, my black thinkpad, my black iAudio X5 and all the other black devices on my desk :) |
| 21:30.16 | ScaredyCat | you get a pink on then galexande |
| 21:30.21 | ScaredyCat | one |
| 21:30.23 | galexande | can i get a discount? |
| 21:30.26 | ScaredyCat | no |
| 21:30.29 | galexande | :( |
| 21:30.30 | ScaredyCat | costs more |
| 21:32.55 | thomasg_ | well, maybe SpeedEvil will build a stainless steel cover for me :) |
| 21:33.10 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@88.128.41.233) |
| 21:33.46 | ScaredyCat | titanium |
| 21:33.49 | ScaredyCat | :D |
| 21:34.10 | thomasg_ | well, stainless steel would be expensive, but titanium -.- |
| 21:34.20 | thomasg_ | why not platinium? ^^ |
| 21:34.35 | ScaredyCat | encrusted with diamonds? |
| 21:34.49 | thomasg_ | no, diamonds are too cheap |
| 21:35.01 | don-o | rotfl |
| 21:35.05 | thomasg_ | mybe opals? |
| 21:35.18 | ScaredyCat | for the hard buttons.. |
| 21:36.10 | thomasg_ | well, it's only one |
| 21:36.16 | thomasg_ | but as every opal is unique, that could be good :) |
| 21:38.31 | SpeedEvil | Opal is _horribly_ soft |
| 21:39.08 | SpeedEvil | Synthetic gems - sapphire, cubic zirconium is nice. |
| 21:40.02 | SpeedEvil | What I really want is a neo with a diamondlike carbon glass cover, and SAW touch-sensor. |
| 21:40.37 | SpeedEvil | They produce the glass for using in barcode scanner windows where they have tins dragged over it all day |
| 21:41.03 | SpeedEvil | Rather than the fragile plastic touchscreen. |
| 21:41.37 | thomasg_ | SAW touch sensor? whats that? |
| 21:42.22 | ScaredyCat | cuts your fingers off if you misdial |
| 21:42.37 | thomasg_ | lol |
| 21:43.12 | galexande | hahaha how many arm cores will this thing have in it |
| 21:43.37 | galexande | one in the gsm, one in the bluetooth, one in the s3c, one in the 802.11b, ...gps? |
| 21:44.19 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] |
| 21:44.42 | SpeedEvil | galexande: no |
| 21:44.48 | SpeedEvil | galexande: GPS is 'dumb' |
| 21:44.54 | ScaredyCat | yeah |
| 21:44.59 | ScaredyCat | such a shame |
| 21:45.03 | SpeedEvil | SAW is 'surface accoustig wave' |
| 21:45.37 | SpeedEvil | basically, it's like all those sub-films sonar displays you've seen, but detecting fingers, not attack subs. |
| 21:45.46 | thomasg_ | hehe |
| 21:46.06 | thomasg_ | would multitouch work with SAW? |
| 21:47.08 | don-o | thomasg_: i would hope militar sonar can track multiple subs at once :) |
| 21:47.15 | don-o | s/militar/military |
| 21:47.28 | thomasg_ | well, military sonar is different :) |
| 21:48.04 | thomasg_ | if a accoustic touchscreen would work with military sonar it'd recognize mouch more than taps on the screen :) |
| 21:50.02 | don-o | ScaredyCat: Engage the caterpillar drive! :) |
| 21:53.02 | don-o | "It would be well for your government to consider that having your PDAs and ours, your smartphones and ours, in such proximity... is inherently DANGEROUS. Wars have begun that way, Mr. Ambassador. " |
| 21:55.32 | LuitvD | ~logs |
| 21:55.33 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, logs is apt/ibot/infobot/jbot/purl all log daily to http://ibot.rikers.org/<channelname>/ where channelname is html encoded ie: %23debian | lines that start with a space are not shown | some channels have stats at http://ibot.rikers.org/stats/<channelname>.html.gz |
| 21:56.03 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde_ (i=woglinde@e178092056.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:57.58 | ScaredyCat | My Morse is so rusty, I could be sending him dimensions on playmate of the month. |
| 22:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:06.08 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.11.186) |
| 22:10.47 | *** join/#openmoko ansivirus (n=ansiviru@adsl-76-225-180-38.dsl.rcsntx.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:11.33 | ansivirus | will these phones be able to be used on any wireless provider? |
| 22:11.34 | aloril | GTA02 (P1+/P1.5) will have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 22:11.55 | SpeedEvil | You mean phone provider? |
| 22:11.56 | Aria | ansivirus: Any GSM provider. |
| 22:11.59 | SpeedEvil | faq? |
| 22:11.59 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 22:12.01 | SpeedEvil | in there |
| 22:12.25 | ansivirus | cool.. thanks |
| 22:12.44 | don-o | the iPhone is for sale on the east coast. this channel is no longer relevant. |
| 22:13.03 | woglinde_ | 2000 bucks for phone yes |
| 22:13.20 | ScaredyCat | lol |
| 22:13.35 | ScaredyCat | like a kipper |
| 22:14.17 | ynezz | iphone costs $2000? |
| 22:14.28 | ScaredyCat | contract |
| 22:14.29 | cjb | over the required two years. |
| 22:14.36 | woglinde | with the highest contract vom at&t yes |
| 22:14.40 | don-o | balrog-kun: ha! |
| 22:14.56 | woglinde | from |
| 22:14.58 | cjb | $500 + (($60 * 12) * 2) |
| 22:15.06 | ynezz | ah |
| 22:15.08 | cjb | woglinde: no, that is the cheapest contract |
| 22:15.11 | cjb | $59.99 |
| 22:15.15 | LuitvD | not really, no |
| 22:15.22 | woglinde | hm oh I read 1400 |
| 22:15.24 | ScaredyCat | now we have to put up with 1000 unboxings, user reviews etc... :/ |
| 22:15.33 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:15.36 | don-o | ScaredyCat: indeed. the reviews will be endless. |
| 22:15.51 | LuitvD | ScaredyCat: I guess youtube will have to create a special channel for that... |
| 22:15.57 | cjb | http://www.wireless.att.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iPhone.jsp |
| 22:16.02 | balrog-kun | i hope it sucks :) |
| 22:16.11 | cjb | lists the plans, from $59.99 -> $219.99/mo |
| 22:16.13 | Kero | so... should I keep a blog about the Neo? ordering, receiving, hacking? |
| 22:16.18 | don-o | live 'blog' updates on people waiting outside of apple stores in various cities: http://www.engadget.com/2007/06/29/iphone-multi-city-lineblog/ |
| 22:16.24 | balrog-kun | on the other hand competition is goof |
| 22:16.26 | balrog-kun | *good |
| 22:16.29 | woglinde | balrog for apple fellowers nothing suckz from apple even it were cow-poo |
| 22:16.30 | don-o | Kero: yes and get on planet.openmoko.org |
| 22:16.33 | ScaredyCat | they'll never know if it sucks, it has brainwashing technology built in |
| 22:16.37 | SpeedEvil | Kero: Sure. Thouhg add to the wiki if there is actual stuff that isn't on there. |
| 22:16.37 | Kero | to counter those iPhone mumbling articles |
| 22:16.46 | zecke | woglinde: ;) |
| 22:16.59 | thomasg_ | well, the iPhone is more a marketing story than a real competitor as a smartphone |
| 22:17.35 | galexande | especially an open smartphone |
| 22:17.40 | ScaredyCat | so, asmartphone for the dumb then :P |
| 22:17.47 | thomasg_ | no, it's no smartphone |
| 22:18.00 | galexande | i just remember my last smartphone, i beat it to pieces because it had a buggy as hell closed source dialer app |
| 22:18.15 | thomasg_ | apple tells the world it is - but a smartphone defines through the possibility for the user to install navite(!) applications |
| 22:18.26 | galexande | navite!!! |
| 22:18.32 | thomasg_ | *native, sry |
| 22:18.33 | balrog-kun | smartphone vs. dumbphone |
| 22:18.42 | ScaredyCat | galexande, i want to do that with my p910i - worst phone i ever had. |
| 22:19.03 | galexande | it didn't make me feel better, though it did make it stop crashing when i pressed 'answer', i highly recommend it. |
| 22:19.15 | LuitvD | 450 minute plan at least? damn, that's way too much |
| 22:19.16 | Kero | SpeedEvil: I'd write a story. if I can explain (parts) of what matters in a Free phone in a bunch of blog articles... that's unlikely to work on a wiki |
| 22:19.25 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 22:19.26 | Kero | don-o: maybe |
| 22:19.36 | Kero | SpeedEvil: I'll put relevant data on the wiki, of course |
| 22:20.05 | ScaredyCat | we wouldn't read it ayway ;) |
| 22:20.30 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde_ (i=woglinde@e178112203.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:20.40 | woglinde_ | damnit |
| 22:20.45 | woglinde_ | crappy connection today |
| 22:20.55 | woglinde_ | hm my wife should check the wires |
| 22:20.56 | Kero | ScaredyCat: you wouldn't read it. especially if you didn't get a P1, huh? :) |
| 22:21.18 | ScaredyCat | I am getting one, yours. :D |
| 22:21.41 | Kero | this will get nasty at some point... >:) |
| 22:22.45 | ScaredyCat | new advertising campaign... |
| 22:22.48 | ScaredyCat | "Would you fight for your phone" |
| 22:23.00 | happycube | heh, woz is at valley fair |
| 22:23.09 | balrog-kun | woglinde_: because you don't want to get electrocuted? |
| 22:23.42 | LuitvD | hahaha |
| 22:23.47 | woglinde_ | no because my wife connect the cables comming through the wall |
| 22:23.48 | Kero | fight for freedom? yes! |
| 22:24.06 | ScaredyCat | finish him! |
| 22:24.33 | ScaredyCat | Moko Combat..... |
| 22:24.37 | ScaredyCat | fight |
| 22:24.39 | woglinde_ | lol |
| 22:25.12 | thomasg_ | SpeedEvil, do you also have access to 3d-scanners for making models of the neo's cover? :) |
| 22:25.24 | SpeedEvil | I have something better. |
| 22:25.31 | SpeedEvil | I have a digital caliper! |
| 22:25.32 | ScaredyCat | cheese? |
| 22:25.36 | SpeedEvil | And a file! |
| 22:25.46 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:27.01 | LuitvD | from now on I'm 1531708 :D |
| 22:27.50 | ScaredyCat | well, I am not number, I am a free man |
| 22:28.55 | SpeedEvil | well, I am not a number, I am a free man |
| 22:29.44 | LuitvD | That, my dear sir, whas thé right answer |
| 22:30.19 | LuitvD | I'm now a number because of college... |
| 22:30.30 | LuitvD | :) those people like numbers I guess |
| 22:30.33 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 22:30.46 | Kero | ha |
| 22:30.58 | Kero | then technology advanced |
| 22:31.10 | Kero | and I got my name back, for email |
| 22:31.14 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:31.26 | LuitvD | great development... |
| 22:31.31 | Kero | so, I got a job, and again got my name as account |
| 22:31.44 | Kero | but, since about 1.5 years, I'm a number again..... |
| 22:31.51 | LuitvD | lol |
| 22:32.13 | ScaredyCat | phjlkmn |
| 22:32.22 | Kero | it's a much bigger number, tho. |
| 22:32.36 | LuitvD | OMG, youtube just gave me a HTTP-500 response, Internal Server Error |
| 22:33.00 | LuitvD | Kero: is it the SHA-1 of your full name? |
| 22:33.50 | Kero | LuitvD: nono. smaller than your number. only 5 digits. but a three-char prefix that has some bearing on location. |
| 22:34.08 | LuitvD | lol |
| 22:34.08 | Kero | 3 digits was enough at university :) |
| 22:34.14 | LuitvD | wow |
| 22:34.23 | LuitvD | what shithole was that in? :P |
| 22:34.48 | LuitvD | 3 digits... I don't believe you |
| 22:34.49 | Kero | LuitvD: Groningen, back in 1992 |
| 22:35.00 | LuitvD | omfg |
| 22:35.10 | LuitvD | was groningen that small back then? |
| 22:35.10 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@201.32.144.210) |
| 22:35.22 | Kero | they needed four digits by the time I left |
| 22:35.29 | LuitvD | hehe |
| 22:35.34 | LuitvD | improvement |
| 22:35.48 | LuitvD | my high school needed 6 when I left it... |
| 22:35.58 | LuitvD | I started with a 5 digit student number... |
| 22:36.02 | Kero | 30CS + 30Math first year students in 1992. |
| 22:36.16 | Kero | small, I'd say |
| 22:36.27 | Kero | no idea how big they are these days |
| 22:36.29 | LuitvD | high school (middelbare school) |
| 22:36.36 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:37.00 | LuitvD | ours is about 1500 students right now... it'll be about 100 more next year :P it's growing every year |
| 22:37.56 | LuitvD | 6 digits for 1500 students and 100 other people is way overkill though |
| 22:38.17 | LuitvD | Aria: when? (or where...) |
| 22:38.26 | Kero | LuitvD: it's like ip4 addresses. you run out of preallocated chunks before you know it. |
| 22:39.20 | LuitvD | Kero: by the time that school runs out of 5-digit student numbers, their computer system will be ancient |
| 22:39.55 | LuitvD | it was only 4 years ago when they switched to windows XP... they ran 2000 before that... |
| 22:40.15 | LuitvD | they really should switch to linux....... |
| 22:40.30 | LuitvD | they pay way too much for those M$ licenses |
| 22:40.35 | Aria | LuitvD: 2000. Ridgway, Colorado. |
| 22:40.45 | *** part/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE0014bf4b2f0e-CM0011e6c3f3e9.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 22:41.28 | LuitvD | Aria: hmm, that's quite small... Our class was 25 students. 100 students on my grade, 300 total graduating students |
| 22:41.30 | LuitvD | this year |
| 22:41.41 | Aria | No kidding. |
| 22:41.46 | LuitvD | really |
| 22:42.08 | LuitvD | graduation was done in 3 'ceremonies' |
| 22:42.13 | LuitvD | one for each grade |
| 22:42.53 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-149-183.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 22:42.57 | LuitvD | then again, it's a school with 1500 students |
| 22:44.06 | Aria | Hehe. Mine had 300. |
| 22:44.08 | Kero | groningen has 22500 students, total :) |
| 22:44.15 | LuitvD | Kero: that's univ. |
| 22:44.20 | LuitvD | Kero: not high school |
| 22:44.26 | Kero | oops :) |
| 22:44.35 | Kero | my school had about 1000 |
| 22:44.41 | Kero | too big already |
| 22:45.06 | LuitvD | there's about 5 high-schools in my town... mine has 1500 students... and the town has a population of 60.000 |
| 22:45.08 | LuitvD | XD |
| 22:45.31 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@m010f36d0.tmodns.net) |
| 22:47.03 | Kero | CS was trying to compare with CS total students in Groningen... can't find a number, tho. 200 max all current students together, I guess... |
| 22:47.28 | LuitvD | really |
| 22:47.34 | LuitvD | that's not much |
| 22:47.54 | LuitvD | that's about half of the new students influx of my former school |
| 22:47.54 | Kero | nope |
| 22:48.17 | LuitvD | what nope? |
| 22:48.23 | Kero | nope - not much |
| 22:48.25 | LuitvD | ah |
| 22:48.36 | LuitvD | that nope |
| 22:49.10 | LuitvD | and groningen is a city... zeist isn't even a city |
| 22:50.01 | LuitvD | [00:44] <Kero> too big already |
| 22:50.06 | ScaredyCat | groningen, isn't that farming uni? |
| 22:50.07 | LuitvD | anything above 400 is too much |
| 22:50.23 | Kero | hehe, apples and pears; I'm babbling about school and university alternatingly :) |
| 22:50.27 | LuitvD | ScaredyCat: depends on which univ in groningen I guess... |
| 22:50.32 | Kero | ScaredyCat: Wageningen is farming |
| 22:50.41 | ScaredyCat | yah... |
| 22:50.51 | ScaredyCat | know about waggy, ... |
| 22:51.13 | LuitvD | [00:16] <cjb> lists the plans, from $59.99 -> $219.99/mo |
| 22:51.19 | LuitvD | that's not even the most expensive |
| 22:51.24 | *** join/#openmoko rrripley (n=Randy@user-3cf8av2.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 22:51.36 | LuitvD | 339.99 is the most expensive one... |
| 22:51.38 | GaKKGaKk | What the hell makes it worth 220$ / minute? |
| 22:51.42 | GaKKGaKk | month. |
| 22:51.45 | GaKKGaKk | :) |
| 22:51.49 | LuitvD | lolz |
| 22:52.05 | LuitvD | that'd be a plan for a spoilt rich kid, 220/minute |
| 22:52.22 | GaKKGaKk | Unlimited 3G data download. (oh wait... no 3g) :P |
| 22:52.23 | LuitvD | 220/month = 6000 minutes |
| 22:52.36 | thomasg_ | sick |
| 22:52.42 | LuitvD | and 200 SMS text messages, HAWHAWHAW |
| 22:52.53 | thomasg_ | I hate text messages -.- |
| 22:53.09 | happycube | $20 for unlimited sms? wtfbbq? |
| 22:53.28 | thomasg_ | what a luck that I don't have to pay for calling :) |
| 22:53.40 | *** join/#openmoko andi_ (n=andi@pD9E24D06.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:53.54 | LuitvD | thomasg_: who does then? your employer? |
| 22:54.00 | thomasg_ | nobody :) |
| 22:54.27 | thomasg_ | my employer is a mobile provider, so he doesn't have to pay, too :) |
| 22:54.39 | LuitvD | oeh, nice |
| 22:54.42 | GaKKGaKk | Huhm... i have a free call plan... 4 numbers to call free unlimited minutes and send unlimited messages.... and 7$/month would give me free calls and SMS to everyone... |
| 22:54.43 | LuitvD | which one? |
| 22:54.47 | thomasg_ | t-mobile |
| 22:54.54 | thomasg_ | but not US |
| 22:54.58 | LuitvD | ah, deutche-telekom |
| 22:55.09 | GaKKGaKk | There seems to be to little competition in America... |
| 22:55.35 | LuitvD | thomasg_: "but not US" > no shit... t-mobile is german :P |
| 22:55.51 | GaKKGaKk | And the whole "unable to buy phones not locked to a phone company" is utter bullshit... |
| 22:55.55 | GaKKGaKk | :) |
| 22:55.59 | thomasg_ | GaKKGaKk, no, thats a world-wide phenomenon |
| 22:56.28 | thomasg_ | LuitvD, t-mobile is in many european countries and in some us-states |
| 22:56.47 | thomasg_ | one of the 10 biggest providers in the world I'd guess |
| 22:56.57 | LuitvD | thomasg_: I know, but if someone talks about t-mobile, I rather think of deutsche telekom then the US-part of t-mobile |
| 22:57.15 | LuitvD | allthough I'm dutch... |
| 22:57.20 | *** join/#openmoko rrripley (n=Randy@user-3cf8av2.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 22:57.27 | happycube | i'm on t-mo us |
| 22:57.49 | LuitvD | thomasg_: the best one to choose when you don't call much in the netherlands |
| 22:57.58 | happycube | (switched from then-at&t... their gsm here was overpriced and useless) |
| 22:58.28 | GaKKGaKk | thomasg_: That might be true, but at least I am able to buy any phone and use it with any company, and americans should be able to too.... |
| 22:58.36 | thomasg_ | I'd wish for the people in germany, that the plans in germany would be as cheap as the us-plans are |
| 22:59.06 | rrripley | =q |
| 22:59.09 | LuitvD | the biggest here are Vodafone, T-Mobile, KPN, Telfort and Hi I think |
| 22:59.20 | LuitvD | (in that order, IMHO) |
| 22:59.39 | LuitvD | Voda isn't a good market leader |
| 23:00.28 | *** join/#openmoko rrripley (n=Randy@user-3cf8av2.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 23:00.35 | LuitvD | (and will use the T-Mobile network I think...) |
| 23:00.41 | LuitvD | (soon) |
| 23:00.53 | thomasg_ | the biggest here: T-Mobile, Vodafone, O2/Telefonica, E-Plus/KPN |
| 23:01.28 | *** join/#openmoko treYdt (n=tpicou@c-69-143-215-199.hsd1.dc.comcast.net) |
| 23:01.39 | happycube | i think the us goes: at&t, verizon, sprint, t-mo |
| 23:02.12 | happycube | verizon is horrible though - bluetooth crippling, horrible 'unlimited' data tos, cdma, that kinda thing |
| 23:02.45 | happycube | sprint might be >#3 post-nextel merger tho |
| 23:03.13 | LuitvD | bluetooth crippling? how in the name of ... |
| 23:03.26 | happycube | they turn off file transfers so you have to pay to get pictures out |
| 23:03.32 | happycube | yes'rly |
| 23:03.37 | LuitvD | :| |
| 23:03.45 | LuitvD | crippled hardware? |
| 23:04.05 | LuitvD | ... damn |
| 23:04.31 | LuitvD | what can you do then? just BT headset? |
| 23:04.32 | happycube | and since it's cdma you can't BYOphone |
| 23:04.46 | happycube | and tether... although too much data and you break the TOS and they call you a pirate ;) |
| 23:05.04 | LuitvD | yarr |
| 23:05.19 | Kero | how come verizon still has customers? |
| 23:05.20 | Kero | :) |
| 23:05.32 | happycube | "Unlimited NationalAccess/BroadbandAccess services cannot be used (1) for uploading, downloading or streaming of movies, music or games, (2) with server devices or with host computer applications, including, but not limited to, Web camera posts or broadcasts, automatic data feeds, Voice over IP (VoIP), automated machine-to-machine connections, or peer-to-peer (P2P) file sharing, or (3) as a substitute or backup for private lines or |
| 23:05.35 | thomasg_ | well, many customers don't know many things |
| 23:05.38 | happycube | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:05.50 | happycube | unlimited my ass. |
| 23:05.59 | thomasg_ | lol |
| 23:06.42 | bluelightning | someone should sue them for false advertising |
| 23:07.42 | LuitvD | happycube: I can get a 1GB/month mobile internet package for 21 euros... (just a tad less then 30 dollars) |
| 23:07.49 | LuitvD | happycube: and that c |
| 23:08.12 | LuitvD | s/that c/that can be used for all of the above/ |
| 23:08.30 | Kero | LuitvD: where do you get that? |
| 23:09.01 | LuitvD | Kero: students-only I guess (wireless circle... Koen mentioned it on this channel once... I guess he uses it...) |
| 23:09.23 | Kero | ok |
| 23:09.35 | LuitvD | Kero: on the Telfort (now KPN) network. GPRS/UMTS/HSDPA access :) |
| 23:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko j_ack (n=j_ack@p508D848A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:10.12 | thomasg_ | the best you can get in germany is a data flatrate for 40 euro (about $55) on the vodafone network |
| 23:10.31 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:10.34 | thomasg_ | yes |
| 23:11.11 | SpeedEvil | I'm awaiting a response on a possible $25/mo unlimited data tarrif from t-mobile |
| 23:11.23 | SpeedEvil | it's implied but not stated on their (UK) website |
| 23:11.38 | thomasg_ | E-Plus sells there data flat for 25 euro (bit less than $35) but they combine it with a voice flat for also 25 euro. and the e-plus network sucks |
| 23:12.02 | zecke | thomasg_: it is okay in the big cities |
| 23:12.11 | thomasg_ | erm, it's ok, but still not good |
| 23:12.17 | SpeedEvil | Annoyingly. |
| 23:12.17 | thomasg_ | the have no hsdpa e.g. |
| 23:12.28 | SpeedEvil | I'm in the process of putting up foil-lined plasterboard in my house. |
| 23:12.28 | thomasg_ | and no edge, and poor gprs |
| 23:12.37 | zecke | maps.google.com works nicely with eplus and umts |
| 23:12.37 | SpeedEvil | Which will utterly screw indoor reception. |
| 23:13.14 | thomasg_ | well, surely it does, but I'd recommend the resaler on the vodafone network with that 40 euro plan |
| 23:13.44 | thomasg_ | vodafone currently has the best umts network and they have hsdpa phase2 (3.6 mbit/s) |
| 23:14.17 | LuitvD | I do want a HSDPA phone, but I don't want to spend 500+ money units on the device alone... |
| 23:14.18 | LuitvD | :( |
| 23:14.34 | LuitvD | s/money units/euros/ |
| 23:15.05 | thomasg_ | and hsdpa simply rocks. on our (t-mobile) net I got more than 3 mbit/s net, more than you can get in public wifi hotspots |
| 23:15.22 | LuitvD | thomasg_: all for free? |
| 23:15.28 | thomasg_ | noo |
| 23:15.37 | thomasg_ | we are way to expensive :( |
| 23:15.47 | LuitvD | but for you |
| 23:15.48 | thomasg_ | well, like I said, it doesn't matter for me, but for our customers it does. |
| 23:16.15 | LuitvD | I meant, can you pull 3Mbit HSDPA for free? because of your employer? |
| 23:16.22 | thomasg_ | yes |
| 23:16.25 | LuitvD | DAMN |
| 23:16.30 | thomasg_ | :) |
| 23:16.35 | LuitvD | where do I apply for a job like yours? :( |
| 23:16.48 | thomasg_ | I'm only a small technican :( |
| 23:16.56 | LuitvD | mimimi |
| 23:17.04 | thomasg_ | *technician |
| 23:17.04 | LuitvD | I want a free phone plan too |
| 23:17.18 | thomasg_ | well, to be correct, I have 4 :) |
| 23:17.19 | LuitvD | lol, thomas is a can |
| 23:17.31 | LuitvD | omfg, I'm yealous :P |
| 23:17.33 | Q_Continuum | I'm curious - how usable is the Neo right now? (Will be getting one for review purposes, plan to use it as my primary phone and replace the Treo - as the treo doesn't quite sync with the apps I use) |
| 23:17.54 | Kero | LuitvD: many employers cn provie one, if you push them (and need the phone for the job, at least part of the time) |
| 23:18.01 | SpeedEvil | It is - as I understand it - just about usable as a basic phone for inbound and outbound calls. |
| 23:18.02 | thomasg_ | Q_Continuum, afaik it's not very usable. calling is possible, but not much more :) (from the sight of an end-user) |
| 23:18.05 | Kero | downside is, they'll call you 24/7 :) |
| 23:18.11 | SpeedEvil | Much more - well no. |
| 23:18.22 | Q_Continuum | Ok |
| 23:18.27 | thomasg_ | Kero, you can turn it off :) |
| 23:18.32 | LuitvD | Q_Continuum: "doesn't quite sync" nope, it doesn't if you don't pay |
| 23:18.39 | thomasg_ | maybe thats the best on the devices :) |
| 23:18.41 | Q_Continuum | Then I guess I do some hackin, and learn code - figure out how to make TBird-lite |
| 23:18.46 | Kero | thomasg_: they'll get pissed :) |
| 23:19.10 | Q_Continuum | LuitvD, what do you mean if you don't pay? I'm not aware of any pay-for *nix apps for syncing |
| 23:19.11 | LuitvD | Kero: true |
| 23:19.22 | LuitvD | Q_Continuum: I meant your Palm device |
| 23:19.23 | thomasg_ | well, if there's an emergency they will really call you (or me ^^) |
| 23:20.05 | LuitvD | Q_Continuum: your treo can sync up with about anything you can think of, but only if you "Buy" the right apps |
| 23:20.32 | Kero | thomasg_: whose definition of emergency... |
| 23:20.44 | LuitvD | mine |
| 23:20.52 | Kero | ...depends on the job; and how much you can teach your colleagues/boss/etc |
| 23:20.53 | Q_Continuum | ah |
| 23:20.54 | thomasg_ | Kero, hehe :) |
| 23:21.16 | thomasg_ | on our network a real emergency would be if a mobile switching center or the utran crashes :) |
| 23:21.52 | LuitvD | thomasg_: then they'll need all the manpower they can get? on MSC crash? |
| 23:22.25 | thomasg_ | depends. mainly they need people who know what they do :) |
| 23:22.30 | LuitvD | :P |
| 23:22.36 | thomasg_ | I'm not a msc-pro |
| 23:22.44 | thomasg_ | so they won't call me :) |
| 23:22.48 | Kero | thomasg_: I'm in research. nothing constitutes an emergency. nearly noone has my phonenumber. and my boss does not pay my phone. I like it that way. |
| 23:22.57 | LuitvD | having people that know what they're doing is always usefull :P |
| 23:23.13 | thomasg_ | Kero, I'd like to be in research, too |
| 23:23.34 | thomasg_ | but that needs much more knowledge and qualification |
| 23:23.46 | thomasg_ | well, I'm young, should be possible :) |
| 23:24.53 | thomasg_ | yeah, I also think that'd be cool |
| 23:25.18 | Kero | dept close to ours does hardware. |
| 23:25.45 | LuitvD | my only R&D hardware project sofar didn't quite work as I hoped it would... :) |
| 23:26.03 | Kero | *grin* always tough. |
| 23:26.33 | Kero | one of our projects worked juuust fiiiine. It's called AmbiLight TV today :D |
| 23:27.02 | LuitvD | (let's just say I always start a project with good progress, and get it all messed up, and leave it to lay around in my room for some weeks, months, whatever |
| 23:27.20 | LuitvD | but then again... I |
| 23:27.22 | Kero | work on it together with someone else |
| 23:27.25 | *** part/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-2157.bb.online.no) |
| 23:27.36 | LuitvD | (damn that ' key being next to the Return key) |
| 23:27.53 | thomasg_ | Kero, you're working for Philips? |
| 23:27.59 | LuitvD | but then again... I'm just 17 years old, and far from being a certified engineer |
| 23:28.03 | Kero | thomasg_: yes |
| 23:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0B006.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:28.19 | thomasg_ | so you're dutch? |
| 23:28.23 | LuitvD | so you're in the television devision? or not anymore? |
| 23:28.27 | Stephmw | LuitvD: that's ok, at least you've got more sense than managers 3x your age already |
| 23:28.32 | Stephmw | LuitvD: you can only go up |
| 23:28.48 | Kero | yup, dutch; no, in research. |
| 23:28.49 | LuitvD | Stephmw: what exactly do you mean by 'more sense' ? |
| 23:29.12 | Stephmw | LuitvD: well, for a start, you discuss things in here... and you're here at all :) |
| 23:29.13 | LuitvD | Kero: research isn't devided? |
| 23:29.21 | Kero | the research wasy paid by lighting, and we hooked things up with a TV; so it ended up in TV business |
| 23:29.39 | Kero | it's... "structured" |
| 23:29.45 | LuitvD | Stephmw: ah, true :) most managers don't care for Open source, agreed |
| 23:29.49 | Kero | but not according to product divisions |
| 23:30.17 | Stephmw | gotta head off, the missus is making angry noises |
| 23:30.23 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 23:30.35 | LuitvD | I think I'm gonna start something small soon... something really small I hope... miniUSB > IR dongle |
| 23:30.37 | SpeedEvil | Does anyone happen to remember the LCD interface on the neo? |
| 23:31.15 | thomasg_ | he Kero, what do you think about an ambilight in the neo? ^^ |
| 23:31.35 | thomasg_ | SpeedEvil, no information on the wiki? |
| 23:31.36 | LuitvD | I'd call it "neat" :P |
| 23:31.59 | SpeedEvil | No, not that I recall. |
| 23:32.03 | LuitvD | ambilight on the neo... where would you like to get the signal? :P |
| 23:32.17 | LuitvD | and where would you like to process that signal :) |
| 23:32.26 | Kero | thomasg_: full gamut LED(s) which actually use something outside of the colors of the rainbow, would be nice in any device. |
| 23:33.24 | Kero | but to combine wih video-over-3G or some such thing? While holding the phone in your hand? not so sure... |
| 23:33.45 | LuitvD | damn I hate being 17. got a boring desk job, because I'm not qualified or certified for anything better... |
| 23:33.47 | thomasg_ | Kero, but I guess ambilight is patented by philips, isn't it? |
| 23:34.02 | thomasg_ | LuitvD, the same for me |
| 23:34.05 | cjb | LuitvD: you should try google summer of code. |
| 23:34.12 | Kero | thomasg_: not as strongly as you'd expect :) |
| 23:34.19 | LuitvD | cjb: I'm to fucking young for that |
| 23:34.26 | LuitvD | (excuse me for the swearing) |
| 23:34.28 | cjb | oh, is it university only? |
| 23:34.38 | LuitvD | no. I'm 17 |
| 23:34.43 | LuitvD | that's the bloody problem |
| 23:34.48 | cjb | it's 18+? |
| 23:34.52 | LuitvD | yes |
| 23:34.55 | LuitvD | I guess... |
| 23:34.58 | LuitvD | *checks again |
| 23:35.25 | cjb | yeah |
| 23:35.43 | cjb | next year, I guess. you need to be 18 by April 9, 2007 for this year's. |
| 23:36.01 | cjb | but you get a year to get good enough at coding to beat out the older geeks :) |
| 23:36.27 | LuitvD | uhuh |
| 23:36.38 | Kero | sure :) |
| 23:36.40 | LuitvD | still sucks |
| 23:36.51 | cjb | yeah. I had a programming job when I was 17, but I guess I was lucky. |
| 23:37.07 | cjb | (also, it was a kinda crappy programming job, looking back.) |
| 23:37.17 | LuitvD | I was the one mentioning GSoC for OpenMoko :) |
| 23:37.31 | LuitvD | s/one/first/ |
| 23:38.36 | Kero | s*cks |
| 23:38.54 | LuitvD | socks? :) |
| 23:38.56 | Kero | LuitvD: so what'll you do next year? university? |
| 23:39.08 | LuitvD | nah, 'Hogeschool' |
| 23:39.21 | LuitvD | it's college I guess.. |
| 23:39.48 | cjb | university == college, to most people |
| 23:40.12 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 23:40.28 | LuitvD | well, I mean I'm going for a Bachelor studies at first. I don't know about a Master grade yet |
| 23:40.31 | LuitvD | haven't decided |
| 23:40.36 | Kero | which subject? |
| 23:40.53 | LuitvD | Electronic Engineering and -Design |
| 23:40.53 | cjb | yeah; to most people, university is where you do the bachelor study. |
| 23:41.11 | LuitvD | I'll do my bachelor in College |
| 23:42.17 | LuitvD | because the local Univ doesn't do Electronics |
| 23:42.28 | LuitvD | strangely |
| 23:42.34 | Kero | then go to another univ :) |
| 23:42.50 | cjb | it's good to get away from home sometimes. |
| 23:42.50 | LuitvD | nah, I can't afford to live on my own |
| 23:42.56 | cjb | ah |
| 23:43.03 | LuitvD | need money to do that |
| 23:43.14 | LuitvD | that's why I've got a desk job right now |
| 23:43.20 | cjb | well, anyone would give you a student loan. |
| 23:43.44 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 23:43.46 | Kero | either way, after a few years, resist a nice job and finish as much study as you can. It's hard to return to study afterwards. |
| 23:43.47 | LuitvD | and above all, I just like it here |
| 23:43.53 | cjb | so it's not impossible. but nothing wrong with saving money, unless it means that you end up unhappy with your college. |
| 23:44.06 | Kero | 'coz if it's anything like the past years, you'll be in high demand :) |
| 23:44.44 | LuitvD | yeah, IT and Electronic Engineering is getting low lately |
| 23:45.06 | LuitvD | here in the Netherlands that is |
| 23:45.17 | Kero | but, most important: have fun! |
| 23:45.24 | LuitvD | oh I will :P |
| 23:45.34 | LuitvD | I'm having fun already |
| 23:45.41 | Kero | great :) |
| 23:46.05 | LuitvD | making money for my studies is quite fun too, actually... |
| 23:46.09 | LuitvD | :P |
| 23:47.09 | Kero | hehe |
| 23:47.11 | LuitvD | being done with high school, and finally having something touchable, something lasting, that proves I'm smart enaugh to go on by myself is quite satisfactory already :) |
| 23:47.23 | CIA-17 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2351 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: * Fix openmoko-footer version while integrating the taskmenu |
| 23:47.39 | Kero | indeed it is! |
| 23:47.39 | LuitvD | (even though my english still sucks... should have paid more attention in english class...) |
| 23:48.06 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (n=timr@h460798ad.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 23:48.20 | LuitvD | love the desk job I have right now... but not for long term assignment :P |
| 23:48.34 | LuitvD | it's for 2 or 3 weeks, and that's just perfect :) |
| 23:48.42 | Jeroen | LuitvD: do you have a VWO or HAVO diploma? |
| 23:48.48 | LuitvD | VWO :) |
| 23:49.04 | Jeroen | then I really advise you to go to university instead of HBO |
| 23:49.06 | LuitvD | since yesterday |
| 23:49.10 | Jeroen | congrats |
| 23:49.14 | LuitvD | Jeroen: why would I do that? |
| 23:49.17 | Kero | congrats! |
| 23:49.20 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 23:49.29 | LuitvD | thanks all |
| 23:49.47 | LuitvD | (I already knew I'd get it for 2 weeks) |
| 23:50.14 | LuitvD | (had to wait those 2 weeks just to get that piece of paper) |
| 23:50.42 | Jeroen | because you will probably be working beneath the level of you what you actually can do at HBO |
| 23:51.10 | LuitvD | Jeroen: not really... It's not that I got VWO with flying colors... |
| 23:51.28 | Jeroen | which subjects were the problems? |
| 23:51.41 | LuitvD | and I know many people who do Univ for 1 year, and then fall back on HBO |
| 23:51.52 | LuitvD | Jeroen: err, paying attention? :) |
| 23:52.09 | Jeroen | I'm just dropping into the middle of the chat :) |
| 23:52.12 | LuitvD | Jeroen: that, and plain learning |
| 23:52.28 | LuitvD | Jeroen: that wasn't a question, it was a statement |
| 23:52.34 | LuitvD | my problem is paying attention |
| 23:52.44 | Kero | paying attention will improve a lot when you do the thiing you chose&like to do |
| 23:52.51 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 23:52.54 | Jeroen | oh, I thought you already mentioned it before... |
| 23:52.59 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 23:53.15 | LuitvD | I can see why you're confused |
| 23:53.39 | LuitvD | my choice of words could have been better :) |
| 23:54.12 | LuitvD | Kero: exactly, but my main interest is doing things I like, not learning about them |
| 23:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-160-76.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 23:54.35 | LuitvD | and that's the main reason why I'll do HBO first (College) |
| 23:54.44 | Jeroen | anyway, I just wanted to say that "not having the money" and "just liking it here" are not that good reasons for choosing HBO instead of univ |
| 23:54.58 | LuitvD | Univ has too much focus on theory |
| 23:55.05 | *** part/#openmoko ruimoreir1 (n=rmoreira@87-196-90-155.net.novis.pt) |
| 23:55.34 | LuitvD | I like the more practical approach of things (ofcourse, with the needed technical background) |
| 23:56.04 | Jeroen | EE is most of the time quite practical |
| 23:56.25 | Jeroen | even at the university level |
| 23:56.36 | LuitvD | Jeroen: well, It's hard to explain, but I like the local College a lot. (and I've read it's one of the best locations in the netherlands to do EE) |
| 23:57.18 | LuitvD | Jeroen: I can get a Masters degree in any University after my College study, and I really like that thought... |
| 23:57.39 | LuitvD | for my HBO really is the right choise |
| 23:57.44 | LuitvD | choice* |
| 23:58.00 | Jeroen | it will probably take 2 years longer to do however |
| 23:58.05 | LuitvD | even though I did VWO, it's best for me to do HBO |
| 23:58.10 | Jeroen | ok |
| 23:58.20 | LuitvD | Jeroen: not really... Bachelor phase in Univ is 4 years too right? |
| 23:58.25 | Jeroen | nope |
| 23:58.33 | LuitvD | is it 3 years? |
| 23:58.36 | Jeroen | yes |
| 23:58.45 | Kero | assuming you discussed it with the "dekaan"(?) from highschool |
| 23:58.53 | LuitvD | well, then HBO > Master is 1 year more then Univ |
| 23:59.27 | LuitvD | Kero: our dean is useless... |
| 23:59.27 | Jeroen | abd you will probably have to a schakeljaar (whatever that is in English) before you can do the university master |
| 23:59.36 | Jeroen | +do |
| 23:59.50 | LuitvD | Jeroen: not really. HBO really is a Bachelor grade now |
| 23:59.56 | Jeroen | in theory, yes |
