| 00:01.48 | Linux_Galore | They should give out awards for people who figure out git heh |
| 00:03.34 | Linux_Galore | Mozilla 3 will be using sqlite, many Linux apps (amarok is one) us it |
| 00:03.42 | Linux_Galore | use* |
| 00:08.43 | Elrond | Well, sqlite doesn't do api controlled record level locking. |
| 00:11.04 | Elrond | It's only table level locking. |
| 00:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 00:13.43 | SpeedEvil | Has any thought been give to screen readers? |
| 00:14.40 | SpeedEvil | Being able to read SMS and do 'stuff' just using bluetooth voice, with it in the pocket would be nice. |
| 00:15.33 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: is there even anything with that functionality available for any OS? |
| 00:15.43 | SpeedEvil | Sort-of. |
| 00:15.54 | summatusmentis | Readers yes, but I didn't know there was voice-activated commands |
| 00:15.56 | SpeedEvil | There are linux distributions available for screen readers |
| 00:16.11 | SpeedEvil | Windows has voice commands. |
| 00:16.35 | SpeedEvil | google windows voice virus |
| 00:17.00 | SpeedEvil | Free speech recognition under linux, well, it's lagging a bit. |
| 00:17.28 | Linux_Galore | Elrond: thought they enabled that in Ver 3.0 |
| 00:18.30 | Linux_Galore | yeah, if i was going to pick something that Linux really lags on right now it would be speech recognition |
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| 00:18.51 | summatusmentis | worse than OS flashplayer? |
| 00:20.23 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: yeah well at least it "plays some things", with speech recognitions its a desert |
| 00:20.52 | SpeedEvil | There are some interesting projects on sourceforge. |
| 00:21.10 | summatusmentis | so there may be a need for a ground-up solution? |
| 00:21.18 | Elrond | Linux_Galore - 2.x: whole db level locking. Version 3.x: table level locking. |
| 00:21.27 | Linux_Galore | I remember going to a talk done by a visually disabled person and its only then you start to see some of the problems |
| 00:21.41 | SpeedEvil | And there are pay-lots-for server stuff, aimed at telephone automation of switchboards |
| 00:22.05 | SpeedEvil | 'tsp' uses a speech reader and a conventional keyboard. |
| 00:22.14 | SpeedEvil | The speech reader going at 600wpm or so |
| 00:24.20 | Linux_Galore | Microsoft has a workshop project it sponsors to create software add ons for disabled people (Microsoft makes a total loss on the venture) |
| 00:24.39 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: http://software.newsforge.com/article.pl?sid=05/01/13/1445211 |
| 00:24.50 | Linux_Galore | very little if any equivalent for FOSS |
| 00:25.21 | Elrond | Linux_Galore - The best way to make windows useable for me: Set the screen resolution to 800x600. ;o) |
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| 00:25.48 | SpeedEvil | lappy |
| 00:26.05 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: looks like it's... rough, to say the least, but there might be something to build off of |
| 00:26.12 | Linux_Galore | Elrond: well the only really redeeming feature for Linux and the visually disabled is you can do just about everything at the command line |
| 00:26.28 | Elrond | Right. |
| 00:26.56 | Elrond | Guess what my screen looks like? Right: bunches of 80x24 xterms with a diagonal of about 15". ;-) |
| 00:27.00 | Linux_Galore | Elrond: but visually disabled people dont like being isolated in that manner and do like using a UI |
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| 00:28.23 | Linux_Galore | it amusing to watch a visually disabled person using the Gnome UI with its built in speech reader that doesnt work really well for all the menu's |
| 00:28.34 | Elrond | I have a few UI applications, I use: firefox, gimp, openoffice. |
| 00:28.45 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: if it can't do speech recognition in a timely manner on a 1500Mhz processor, ... |
| 00:28.58 | SpeedEvil | (going from the page comments) |
| 00:29.12 | summatusmentis | ew... ok, I didn't read the comments |
| 00:29.32 | summatusmentis | so perhaps it's bad coding, or perhaps it needs high CPU |
| 00:30.36 | Elrond | There were some university research projects, and they even tried to create a version for handheld devices... |
| 00:31.17 | SpeedEvil | It's a shame IBM pulled viavoice |
| 00:31.24 | Linux_Galore | Elrond: there was an IBM project for speech recognition but they seem to have dropped it |
| 00:31.24 | summatusmentis | Elrond: any idea as to which universities? or projects? or something? |
| 00:31.45 | Elrond | summatusmentis - Not really. :-| |
| 00:32.21 | Linux_Galore | always ask MIT, speech recognition would be something they would be into |
| 00:32.23 | summatusmentis | Linux_Galore: good point |
| 00:33.12 | Linux_Galore | s/has/had/ |
| 00:33.56 | summatusmentis | I think I saw a video of that |
| 00:34.15 | SpeedEvil | Viavoice was a commercial, widely sold product |
| 00:35.12 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: yeah, someone released a howto last year ie build your own touch interface table then Microsoft runs around a few weeks ago saying "ooh look what we created isnt it innovative" |
| 00:36.06 | summatusmentis | Linux_Galore: you're not bitter or anything huh? |
| 00:36.10 | Linux_Galore | even the whole methodlogy of the UI was a rippoff of the MIT/Apple demo's |
| 00:36.18 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: I think I've got an old windows version of viavoice |
| 00:36.35 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: no I just hate people who try sell someone elses idea's as their own |
| 00:37.18 | summatusmentis | yeah, I get it |
| 00:37.58 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: apples did a demo last year and they admited openly they got the idea from MIT, but not a word from Microsoft |
| 00:39.11 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: have you seen the Microsoft Surface parody video, ie "Big assed desktop" |
| 00:40.04 | summatusmentis | I haven't |
| 00:40.55 | Linux_Galore | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZrr7AZ9nCY |
| 00:43.54 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: I'm not seeing much from preliminary googling |
| 00:46.51 | summatusmentis | Linux_Galore: :-P |
| 00:47.53 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: heh quote "Take that Apple" |
| 00:48.10 | summatusmentis | lol, it's true |
| 00:49.30 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: if you think about it the whole logic of the thing is 1990's and doesnt take into consideration that everything is wireless now and has a fully functional OS so why do you need a big assed table |
| 00:50.41 | summatusmentis | well, interfacing |
| 00:50.49 | summatusmentis | things like most phones interfaces are terrible |
| 00:53.34 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: be honest would you spend money on something that will always cost more than a laptop (even a good one) just to read maps and transfer files |
| 00:54.42 | summatusmentis | no, of course not, but if for instance stores had something similar, a kiosk of sorts, quick access to your phone(which had a maps app installed) could be beneficial |
| 00:54.53 | Linux_Galore | if I really needed that type of functionality I would buy a nice laptop with Wimax |
| 00:54.54 | summatusmentis | a public 'monitor' for the phone so to speak, or even just a thumb drive |
| 00:56.11 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: yeah, finding a shop that will pay $$$$$ for it with low returns will be fun to see |
| 00:56.31 | summatusmentis | well obviously not now, tha makes no sense |
| 00:56.45 | summatusmentis | but if the technology became more widespread, the cost would go down |
| 00:57.16 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: if it gets under US$4k it may work |
| 00:57.36 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: yuppie bars will use it to order drinks |
| 00:58.25 | summatusmentis | lol, I'm not saying it's perfect technology, but it's feasible |
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| 01:01.53 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: I must admit my inner geek goes ooooh |
| 01:02.08 | summatusmentis | agreed, agreed :-P |
| 01:02.56 | Linux_Galore | bet many people get a openmoko just so they can go, pffft bet you cant do this on an Iphone |
| 01:03.30 | summatusmentis | lol, I wish it were further along, but I'm just impatient |
| 01:04.20 | Linux_Galore | I wonder if you can do remote x sessions on an openmoko heh play Quake 4 lol |
| 01:05.19 | don-o | Linux_Galore: lol |
| 01:05.28 | don-o | Linux_Galore: there is always text-mode quake. |
| 01:05.33 | sbeh | hm, maybe with some magic of nxClient :) |
| 01:06.18 | summatusmentis | Linux_Galore: X11 forwarding |
| 01:06.53 | Linux_Galore | someone turns up at the office with his iPhone so you pull out your openmoko and start doing remote X sessions stuff, ie Play Quake run Openoffice lol |
| 01:07.17 | summatusmentis | that would rock |
| 01:07.23 | Linux_Galore | what you can even run an office suite on it pffft |
| 01:07.26 | summatusmentis | I get people amazed w/ my Zaurus |
| 01:07.27 | Linux_Galore | cant* |
| 01:08.45 | Linux_Galore | the real power with the openmoko is if you could get a remote X sessions because then you basically have all the grunt of a PC in your hand |
| 01:09.38 | summatusmentis | I don't see why you couldn't do remote X sessions, assuming you have a decent net connection |
| 01:09.48 | summatusmentis | gprs prob. wouldn't cut it |
| 01:10.05 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: I do the same with my 5600 (zaurus) I even got a remote Wine MSOffice session going once lol |
| 01:10.52 | summatusmentis | lol, seriously? I don't even have to do anything w/ my 3200, I open it up and people go "oooh... that's SO cool!!!" |
| 01:10.54 | summatusmentis | :-P |
| 01:11.16 | summatusmentis | my ISP blocks all incoming connections, so... |
| 01:11.56 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: yeah, well one of the guys showed how he could open a doc file, I just decided to see if I could do a remote Wine session from my desktop machine as I was within range and fsk me it worked |
| 01:12.56 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: sorry.. how he could open a doc file on his WM6 PDA Phone |
| 01:14.01 | summatusmentis | abiword ftw |
| 01:14.32 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: yeah but having Office2000 running looks more impressive |
| 01:14.34 | *** join/#openmoko summatus|PDA (n=jake@72.168.202.219) |
| 01:14.45 | summatusmentis | true |
| 01:14.45 | Linux_Galore | heh |
| 01:15.31 | Linux_Galore | summatus: Im pretty limited to what I can run on a 5600 |
| 01:16.04 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: do you have one of the clamshell units ? |
| 01:16.18 | summatus|PDA | the neo just needs to be done already, then we can start putting apache and stuff on it :-P |
| 01:16.33 | summatus|PDA | Linux_Galore, yeah, 3200(terrier), 6gb hdd |
| 01:16.50 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: you suck |
| 01:16.57 | Linux_Galore | :-P |
| 01:17.08 | summatus|PDA | lol... my 18th b-day present |
| 01:17.48 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: I looked at getting one but decided to get a new laptop |
| 01:18.28 | summatus|PDA | I need one of those too, sometime this summer, college |
| 01:19.03 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: they are not cheap either, about the same price as a core2 laptop |
| 01:19.37 | summatus|PDA | the 3200? I go mine for about $550 |
| 01:19.37 | aloril | summatus|PDA: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:19.41 | summatus|PDA | USD |
| 01:19.56 | summatus|PDA | aloril, huh? |
| 01:20.00 | Linux_Galore | summatusmentis: you can get a core2 for under $500 |
| 01:20.26 | summatus|PDA | oh, core2 yes, not c2d |
| 01:25.25 | Linux_Galore | summatus|PDA: I might wait for the improved version if the wait isnt too long |
| 01:26.37 | summatus|PDA | yeah, I know... I'll need a new phone around sept., maybe I can delay it a bit... |
| 01:26.50 | summatus|PDA | I still think it needs 3G |
| 01:27.05 | Linux_Galore | summatus|PDA: I have a N95 already so Im in no real rush |
| 01:27.48 | summatus|PDA | thats the nokia smartphone(Q,blackjack looking thing)? |
| 01:28.22 | SpeedEvil | 3G is very localised though |
| 01:28.35 | SpeedEvil | there are several standards worldwide |
| 01:28.45 | SpeedEvil | (in the generic 'faster than GSM' sense) |
| 01:28.55 | summatus|PDA | I suppose thats true |
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| 01:35.37 | empty_mind | what is causing this error http://pastebin.com/934958 |
| 01:36.22 | cjb | empty_mind: could be the sh != nash thing. |
| 01:37.00 | empty_mind | cjb, where do i fix this ? |
| 01:37.10 | empty_mind | cjb, or how do i fix this ? |
| 01:37.23 | cjb | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile at the Before you begin |
| 01:38.37 | empty_mind | cjb, two things. First i am not building image for first time. Second i am not on ubuntu |
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| 01:39.03 | cjb | ok, then it could be a bug in that source package |
| 01:39.25 | cjb | (openmoko-tasks) |
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| 01:54.14 | empty_mind | anyone else facing problems in compiling openmoko ? |
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| 03:07.52 | summatus|PDA | what is the screen on the neo made out of? |
| 03:09.21 | Marex | summatus|PDA, plush |
| 03:09.56 | summatus|PDA | Marex, :-P so no fingerprints then? |
| 03:10.21 | Marex | and no possibility of breakage ;-] |
| 03:10.38 | summatusmentis | lol |
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| 03:53.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 619 has been created by autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org |
| 03:53.03 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko-tasks-0.1+svnnow-r0_230-do_compile |
| 03:53.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=619 |
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| 04:30.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Calculator]] |
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| 05:22.57 | wehttamb_ | counter |
| 05:22.57 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 15:18:31 (1.638±1.6 days) (1567;237) |
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| 07:11.42 | empty_mind | why am i getting this error during make openmoko-devel-image http://pastebin.com/934958 |
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| 07:27.24 | rwhitby | empty_mind: you're not alone - I get the same error. |
| 07:27.51 | empty_mind | rwhitby, looks like problem in source code |
| 07:27.53 | rwhitby | looks like the autobuilder did too. |
| 07:28.36 | rwhitby | cdbot2 reported it here 3.5 hours ago |
| 07:28.39 | empty_mind | i think problem is in koto-field-editor-factory.c file |
| 07:29.15 | empty_mind | hmm, so lets wait untill the bug is fixed |
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| 08:54.48 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:55.36 | ewon | greets |
| 08:58.55 | xkr47 | counter |
| 08:58.55 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 13:30:32 (1.563±1.6 days) (1568;237) |
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| 09:06.48 | usagi_ | Anyone awake? |
| 09:09.32 | xkr47 | I'm awake but unimportant |
| 09:14.09 | hads | heh |
| 09:18.36 | usagi_ | hi :) |
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| 09:20.17 | usagi_ | Does anyone know if it's possible to run an ssh server on the neo? |
| 09:20.34 | hads | I don't see why not. |
| 09:22.39 | aloril2 | you can ssh into default image already |
| 09:23.30 | hads | There you go then |
| 09:24.16 | hads | I haven't even built an image yet. Tried once but it didn't build and I didn't have 'me time' to play with it. |
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| 09:59.03 | apic | Hi. |
| 09:59.27 | apic | Will openmoko be ported to Nokia E61 any time soon? |
| 09:59.27 | aloril | apic: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 09:59.37 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 09:59.38 | apic | Okay. |
| 10:01.02 | apic | Well... |
| 10:01.10 | apic | FAQ doesn't answer it. :-P |
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| 10:07.53 | seemant | er, available to buy any week now? |
| 10:08.53 | hads | OK |
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| 10:21.26 | oversee1 | ,counter |
| 10:23.22 | SpeedEvil | apic: provide full hardware specs, and the answer is probably! |
| 10:23.22 | SpeedEvil | apic: in reality though. |
| 10:23.30 | apic | I don't have theam either. |
| 10:23.32 | apic | -a |
| 10:23.38 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, more important things are being done - like for example, getting the contacts app coded |
| 10:23.58 | apic | Actually if I had them I'd play with Linux on my phone myself. |
| 10:24.01 | apic | Okay... |
| 10:24.26 | apic | When I get out of mental hospital i might help too. :-P |
| 10:24.29 | apic | Maybe... |
| 10:24.58 | SpeedEvil | The chained-down side, or the side where they just trust you to stay there? |
| 10:26.25 | apic | Well, I'm not fixated. |
| 10:26.29 | apic | But trapped anyhow. |
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| 10:27.14 | apic | I'm glad they let me use my mobile phone (with which I can IRC and stuff :-) |
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| 12:17.25 | Kero | counter |
| 12:17.26 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 11:51:17 (1.494±1.5 days) (1569;237) |
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| 12:41.15 | thomasg_gpm | hm, somehow I can't believe that there will be an announce tomorrow :) |
| 12:43.02 | Linux_Galore | might get a final release date |
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| 12:48.49 | Linux_Galore | wonder if the next version will have an external sd slot |
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| 13:27.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2338 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: * Let openmoko-tasks build again. Workaround until #619 is fixed upstream. |
| 13:27.44 | koen | contacts/02 looks really nice |
| 13:27.55 | koen | or rather, actually useable on the neo :) |
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| 13:53.40 | Savenger | hi all, i want to develop for the neo. i already installed everything described on the openmoko wiki, but when i try to change the root, i get the error: "chroot: cannot run command `/bin/sh': Exec format error" |
| 13:54.39 | Savenger | i'm using ubuntu 7.04 with Kernel 2.6.20-16 |
| 13:56.21 | stefan_schmidt | Savenger: ubuntu uses dash instead of bash as shell |
| 13:57.05 | stefan_schmidt | Savenger: COnfigure it to use bash |
| 13:57.49 | stefan_schmidt | Savenger: dpkg-reconfigure dash and then choose bash as link to /bin/sh |
| 13:58.16 | Savenger | i thought, i already did that |
| 13:59.01 | Savenger | my "ls -l /bin/sh" says "-> bash" |
| 13:59.17 | Savenger | so, that might be ok |
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| 13:59.47 | Savenger | do you have any other idea? |
| 14:00.19 | stefan_schmidt | Savenger: hmm, that kicks me out of ideas |
| 14:00.26 | Savenger | :-( |
| 14:02.10 | drath | what does "file /bin/bash" say? |
| 14:02.36 | Savenger | /bin/bash: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped |
| 14:04.23 | drath | is this a 64 or a 32 bit machine? |
| 14:04.52 | Savenger | a 32bit, i think :-) i have a intel core 2 duo. |
| 14:05.03 | summatusmentis | iirc, that's 64bit |
| 14:06.45 | Savenger | ah ok, what can i do now? |
| 14:12.36 | Savenger | do you think that this is a problem? i have NOT installed a 64-Bit Ubuntu |
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| 14:42.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2339 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (17 files in 2 dirs): |
| 14:42.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-24 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 14:42.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Copy most of the files from openmoko-mainmenu to the panel applet. |
| 14:42.29 | CIA-24 | openmoko: First step to obsolete openmoko-mainmenu. The finger menu functionality |
| 14:42.31 | CIA-24 | openmoko: will be merged into the applet and started with tapn-and-hold. (See |
| 14:42.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: #121) |
| 14:45.39 | bmidgley_ | roh: is there a software override so neo will charge from a generic cigarette-lighter-to-mini-usb adapter? |
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| 15:03.11 | bmidgley_ | or can we buy a car adapter charger for neo?? |
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| 15:09.08 | Kensan | bmidgley_: see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_How_much.3F |
| 15:10.08 | bmidgley_ | Kensan: doh, I searched for "auto" and "cigarette" (lighter) |
| 15:10.09 | Kensan | stefan_schmidt: any news on bug #599? I saw it being mentioned on openmoko-devel. |
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| 15:12.13 | stefan_schmidt | Kensan: It's some time a chatted with mickey the last time. He must be on the way back from .tw So I had no time to ask him. It's still on my todo. |
| 15:13.21 | Kensan | stefan_schmidt: just checking *hehe* |
| 15:13.41 | stefan_schmidt | Kensan: Jup, poking is fine. :) |
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| 15:30.16 | empty_mind | $200 for debug board is high |
| 15:31.07 | CoreDump|afk | I don't think so. The board is not limited to the neo. I've heard reports from people using it to JTAG other stuff |
| 15:34.35 | roh | bmidgley: you can lookt at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader there a description of the bootloader commands is listed. you can add an entry to the bootmenu activating fast charge which ignores the usb handshake |
| 15:34.40 | roh | -t |
| 15:35.40 | roh | bmidgley: or add an resistor like described here http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger |
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| 15:49.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2340 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (ChangeLog src/buttonactions.c): |
| 15:49.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-24 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 15:49.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/buttonactions.c: |
| 15:49.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (panel_mainmenu_input_dispatch): |
| 15:49.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Comment out some noisy debug statements. |
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| 15:53.35 | SrRaven | so im outta the loop,did new neo1973 get send out? |
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| 16:19.15 | nobody96 | moin |
| 16:21.21 | MDK | hey, is openmoko nowadays using any hildon/maemo code? |
| 16:21.27 | roh | no |
| 16:22.13 | MDK | how about the hildon patches to gtk? (tap and hold, touchscreen stuff) |
| 16:22.37 | roh | dunno. afaik not. |
| 16:22.38 | MDK | so it's being redone from scratch? |
| 16:23.06 | roh | what we do is thought to go upstream. so no senseless and unmergeable patching to things like gtk |
| 16:23.23 | MDK | hmm |
| 16:23.35 | MDK | you realize that 80% of the hildon patches are already upstream? |
| 16:23.43 | MDK | and the rest is following |
| 16:24.05 | nobody96 | i think its easier to maintain a special "mouse" driver for the openmoko touchscreen |
| 16:24.07 | roh | you can watch all the source beeing used in svn and take a look at the patches |
| 16:24.24 | roh | nobody96 no. a mouse is something totally different from a touchscreen |
| 16:24.36 | nobody96 | there u can emulate an 2d scrollwheel ore something like this |
| 16:24.46 | nobody96 | why? |
| 16:25.34 | roh | nobody96 emulating other inputdevices makes zero sense. a touchscreen is an absolute input medium. a mouse is relative for example |
| 16:26.08 | MDK | nobody96: also, how would you emulate tap and hold? |
| 16:26.34 | nobody96 | just thought that this would be the right place for an emulated scrollwheel |
| 16:27.28 | nobody96 | dont thought that tab and hold would be a problem because i dont get the differences between a touchscreen/pad and a mouse |
| 16:27.45 | MDK | roh: I know I can follow, I was just having this impression a lot of work is duplicated |
| 16:27.50 | roh | MDK see http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/gtk+/ |
| 16:27.59 | MDK | a lot of stuff we do in hildon/maemo could be prolly reused |
| 16:28.36 | MDK | I know how much time we spent getting this stuff right, and how much more time was spent correcting it to integrate upstream |
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| 16:29.49 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: This stuff is best discussed with mickey as he is the architecture guy. On the home back from .tw right now IIRC. |
| 16:29.57 | stefan_schmidt | hi zecke |
| 16:30.01 | zecke | hi |
| 16:30.31 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: There were already some discussion between the maemo gang and Sean/mickey IIRC |
| 16:30.34 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: we met with mickey on fosdem and had a discussion about sharing |
| 16:30.41 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: but it kinda ended there |
| 16:30.49 | roh | MDK as far as i understood it we layer our widgets on gtk, not modify it massively |
| 16:31.17 | roh | MDK but i have not looked at our gtk patches or the maemo ones in detail |
| 16:31.22 | MDK | roh: well, we do similiar thing |
| 16:31.23 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: So we need to renew it. :) |
| 16:32.02 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: busy studying? |
| 16:32.46 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Battery_Charger]] |
| 16:33.09 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: The discussion I mean |
| 16:33.19 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: yeah, I know, hence asking |
| 16:33.30 | MDK | are you using 2.6 still? |
| 16:34.01 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: Yes, but with newer cairo going to a more recent version should be possible in some time. |
| 16:34.29 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: yes, we're using 2.10 now, with similiar perf |
| 16:34.46 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: Once mickey showed up again, after yet leg I guess, I'll point him to you. |
| 16:34.50 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: we optimized the cairo-pango to be as fast as xft |
| 16:35.04 | MDK | since we're using cairo only to draw text |
| 16:35.07 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: That sounds promising. |
| 16:35.20 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: ross already mentoined something like this to me. |
| 16:35.35 | MDK | what kind of theme engine openmoko uses? |
| 16:35.35 | stefan_schmidt | mentioned |
| 16:35.53 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:36.01 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: gtk-engine? |
| 16:36.07 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: yes, gtk-engine |
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| 16:36.10 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: not sapwood. :) |
| 16:36.21 | MDK | pixbuf I guess? |
| 16:36.29 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: yes |
| 16:36.48 | borg_ | counter |
| 16:36.49 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 09:41:35 (1.404±1.4 days) (1570;238) |
| 16:36.54 | MDK | well, than sapwood really makes sense |
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| 16:37.08 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: Not with our current theme. |
| 16:37.18 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: alpha? |
| 16:37.25 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: Yes |
| 16:37.35 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: At least we hope to have it in the end |
| 16:37.48 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: sapwood is only 1 bit alpha, right? |
| 16:37.53 | roh | MDK atm there is nearly no optimization done. yes.. theres a lot of potential |
| 16:38.13 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: yes, only 1bit alpha |
| 16:38.26 | MDK | but pixbuf engine is a huge memory hog |
| 16:38.56 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: indeed |
| 16:39.19 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: But we want both: Fast/lean and eye-candy :) |
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| 16:39.33 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: GTK makes our life not easy for this :) |
| 16:39.34 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: but ie. in sardine we have transparency for home applets using client-side compositing |
| 16:39.52 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: sardine? |
| 16:40.16 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: our unstable distribution (latest and greatest of everything, not shipped yet) |
| 16:40.23 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: ah |
| 16:40.52 | stefan_schmidt | I was not that hyped by the N770 |
| 16:41.22 | MDK | well, depends why you were not hyped... |
| 16:41.27 | roh | stefan_schmidt i had one on my hands in taiwan.. nice to see and play with but i wouldn't buy it. |
| 16:42.01 | MDK | if you didn't like it because it was too slow, then n800 might make sense to you |
| 16:42.25 | MDK | but if you didn't like the concept, then n800 will disappoint you too |
| 16:42.34 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: heh, faster is always good. |
| 16:42.43 | MDK | roh: too expensive? |
| 16:43.10 | roh | MDK no real usecase for me. and i also do not like binary components |
| 16:43.40 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: But I indeed had a problem with the concept. Having another device in my pocket for web browsing... |
| 16:43.49 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: but anyways, there are also the intel guys now, they're going to use hildon and have some full-time engineers to work/contribute to it |
| 16:43.53 | roh | MDK i also have a simpad flying around which i do not use |
| 16:44.01 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: so I think it makes sense to align somehow on this thing |
| 16:44.08 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: The device itself is pretty neat. But same as roh, no real use case for me. |
| 16:45.20 | MDK | stefan_schmidt, roh: I must admit, I'd prefer it to be a phone/more pim-alike too |
| 16:45.25 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: What's the goal for hildon in the end? Pushing all back to gtk and just have a widget set? |
| 16:45.54 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: hildon is a lot of components |
| 16:46.16 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: gtk, hildon desktop, hildon widgets and hildon file management being the main ones |
| 16:46.25 | roh | MDK thats not it.. but what to use a device like that for? as a big-ui remote-controll for digital television at the sofa.. yeah.. but for browsing? no. |
| 16:46.29 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: I'm not that deep in this. Is there somewhere a overview chart or something similar? |
| 16:47.10 | roh | MDK i used the simpad as wlan-measuring device once.. with a directional panel antenna taped to the back... what else.... |
| 16:48.27 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-mobile/2007-May/000098.html |
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| 16:50.05 | dottedmag | counter |
| 16:50.05 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 09:34:57 (1.399±1.4 days) (1571;238) |
| 16:50.21 | dottedmag | lol |
| 16:50.34 | dottedmag | counter? |
| 16:50.35 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 09:34:42 (1.399±1.4 days) (1572;238) |
| 16:52.41 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: Nice overview. But definitely something for mickey as I came to OpenMoko long time after all the architecture discussions were done. Just playing code monkey here right know. :) |
| 16:53.10 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: I'll point him to you once I can catch him. Hanging in this channel all the time? |
| 16:53.19 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: yep |
| 16:53.29 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: good |
| 16:53.39 | Gybrush | stefan_schmidt, on which parts are you working? |
| 16:55.17 | stefan_schmidt | Gybrush: Panel applet atm. Remove some duplicated code, clean up, push upstream. But also a bit OE stuff. (If it is broken) Why? |
| 16:55.46 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: Is there #hildon somewhere? |
| 16:57.43 | MDK | no, not really. Only #maemo |
| 16:57.54 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: but we plan to make hildon a more upstream project |
| 16:58.03 | MDK | stefan_schmidt: we're moving it to gnome |
| 16:58.10 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: ok |
| 16:58.45 | MDK | the idea is to separate it from #maemo, and manage in a more sane way |
| 16:58.52 | MDK | with normal releases and so forth |
| 16:59.11 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: And put all together for a release again... |
| 16:59.59 | koen | MDK: I told all that to mickeyl last week :) |
| 17:00.03 | MDK | normal releases = upstream releases synced with gnome |
| 17:00.46 | koen | complete with bogus version numbers like 2.20.5? |
| 17:01.37 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p5481D09B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:01.43 | stefan_schmidt | heh, seems koen has a hildon/maemo keyword trigger ;) |
| 17:02.14 | koen | I want maemo-mapper working with a non-forked gtk :) |
| 17:02.57 | MDK | koen: yes, we suck in some areas, but we're learning |
| 17:03.05 | MDK | slowly, but learning ;) |
| 17:03.21 | koen | yeah |
| 17:03.48 | koen | I discussed all that at ELC with quim and carlos |
| 17:04.45 | koen | that reminds me, I should test k-s' latest work on a neo |
| 17:05.27 | koen | my guinnea pigs fell asleep so I can focus on other things now :) |
| 17:05.44 | *** join/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:06.19 | *** part/#openmoko cga (n=cga@213-140-6-101.ip.fastwebnet.it) |
| 17:06.33 | koen | MDK: when will hildon be put in gnome svn? |
| 17:06.53 | MDK | btw, are you guys coming to guadec? That would be a good opportunity to discuss things |
| 17:07.13 | MDK | koen: I have no clue, but soon I hope |
| 17:07.22 | koen | yes, we'll be at guadec |
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| 18:18.51 | stefan_schmidt | MDK: Yes, mickey, alphaone and me will be there also. |
| 18:20.35 | nox-Hand | counter |
| 18:20.35 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 08:49:42 (1.368±1.4 days) (1573;238) |
| 18:23.25 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484FC9F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:23.57 | sixfeet | search phone shop ;) |
| 18:27.05 | *** part/#openmoko dottedmag (n=mag@dottedmag.net) |
| 18:27.26 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
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| 18:32.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 18:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 18:40.51 | Elrond | Just for fun (I have not tried to reproduce it, so I don't call it a bug): http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/613636578/ |
| 18:44.37 | guaqua | i wonder what kind of changes would it require to get all apps to support rotating the screen? |
| 18:45.38 | *** join/#openmoko jipp (n=jip@kwark.org) |
| 18:45.52 | cjb | It should just work; when it doesn't, the app has sizes hardcoded. |
| 18:46.16 | guaqua | oooh |
| 18:48.37 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 18:48.59 | Elrond | cjb - This one is an app bug http://www.flickr.com/photos/elrond/509749982/ |
| 18:54.52 | cjb | Elrond: Yeah, seen that one. |
| 19:02.30 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=huhh@3e44bbfc.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:08.54 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
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| 19:28.18 | Marex | hi, hmm ... any idea about iwmmxt support in qemu/omoko? |
| 19:29.06 | roh | is not there |
| 19:29.20 | roh | its a samsung arm9 cpu, no fpu |
| 19:30.44 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE682.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:30.58 | roh | Marex i hope i understood your question right |
| 19:31.22 | Marex | ah ... I thought its pxa |
| 19:31.29 | Marex | oh .. ok then :] thanx |
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| 19:36.41 | *** join/#openmoko guest__ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 19:37.36 | aloril2 | has been pretty quiet today, hopefully that is calm before storm |
| 19:38.17 | summatusmentis | which storm? |
| 19:38.22 | summatusmentis | release storm? |
| 19:38.44 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-159-107-233.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:39.01 | aloril2 | discussion storm following release ;-) |
| 19:39.11 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 19:40.23 | aloril2 | 2-9 month wait |
| 19:41.03 | summatusmentis | yeah, no kidding |
| 19:41.11 | summatusmentis | Hopefully 2 months |
| 19:41.26 | summatusmentis | if not, I'll go GTA01 in 2 months, or w/e |
| 19:41.33 | summatusmentis | need a new phone for college |
| 19:43.21 | MeTa[AwAy] | Is there any idea, when the latest revision of hardware releases before the mass market, that as i see is adjourned |
| 19:43.23 | MeTa[AwAy] | ? |
| 19:43.46 | MeTa[AwAy] | or that is the above discussed gta02? |
| 19:44.47 | guaqua | MeTa[AwAy]: could you rephrase that? |
| 19:45.14 | MeTa[AwAy] | erhm:) So i waiting hard for the last revision of neo1973 |
| 19:45.30 | MeTa[AwAy] | and i hope i didn't needed to wait a half year. |
| 19:45.47 | summatusmentis | there should ba GTA01 being available for sale soon |
| 19:45.56 | roh | the last revision of gta01 is what the first one you can buy is |
| 19:46.02 | guaqua | gta01 which will be released during this summer is a developer phone |
| 19:46.21 | roh | gta02 will be _sold_ also only when all bugs are out |
| 19:46.21 | guaqua | you can get one, but it is not a ready phone |
| 19:46.50 | roh | we cannot take money for hardware we would need to exchange out of gurantee reasons. just makes no sense at all |
| 19:47.33 | Elrond | roh - Will GTA01 be available after GTA02 selling starts? |
| 19:47.44 | MeTa[AwAy] | If the sw is not the latest and fullest working thing is not problem, but i want the "stable" version of the phone |
| 19:48.04 | MeTa[AwAy] | when that is become possible? |
| 19:48.07 | Elrond | MeTa[AwAy] - I think, you should read up on the wiki a bit. |
| 19:48.17 | MeTa[AwAy] | ok |
| 19:48.40 | roh | Elrond dunno. i see no real reason to build new gta01 ones when gta02 is in MP (beeing sold) since they share the same case and features |
| 19:48.45 | aloril2 | MeTa[AwAy]: last hardware revision before mass market: supposedly GTA02 , but I guess its possible bugs are discovered after developer GTA02 release |
| 19:50.13 | Elrond | roh - The GTA01 might be cheaper. :-) |
| 19:50.41 | MacNorth | maybe by parts, but maybe not by process |
| 19:51.07 | roh | Elrond only when running at the same volumes, and i do not believe that |
| 19:52.06 | Elrond | roh - Ahh. |
| 19:52.26 | Elrond | So is there any news on GTA02 pricing? |
| 19:52.31 | roh | nope |
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| 19:58.55 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=erdinger@f048011105.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:59.06 | dcordes | where can I download openmoko? |
| 20:00.22 | Elrond | dcordes - What exactly do you want to download? |
| 20:00.38 | dcordes | Elrond, don't know what you have there. Images? |
| 20:00.45 | dcordes | rootfs |
| 20:00.53 | dcordes | the system?? |
| 20:00.59 | Elrond | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ |
| 20:01.11 | dcordes | Elrond, thanks |
| 20:01.26 | Elrond | Of course the images wont make much sense without qemu-neo1973 ;) |
| 20:01.53 | Elrond | dcordes - I suggest you check wiki.openmoko.org |
| 20:02.05 | dcordes | Elrond, are there images for h6300? |
| 20:02.55 | aloril2 | roh: of course you won't sell buggy versions, but there is always small possibility that bugs are discovered later |
| 20:04.26 | roh | aloril2 thats what the betatests are for. exchanging hardware is expensive |
| 20:04.43 | Elrond | dcordes - Not officialy. |
| 20:04.55 | Elrond | roh - But in the worst case fic would do that? |
| 20:05.29 | dcordes | Elrond, that's a pitty. I would like to try it on a friend's device |
| 20:05.51 | roh | Elrond we are forced to. take a look at what law in a lot of countrys enfoces whan it comes to gurantee |
| 20:05.58 | dcordes | I read in the news that neo will be rleases in september. motd says perhaps any week. Who can I trust :-)? |
| 20:06.16 | aloril2 | dcordes: you could always build one yourself |
| 20:06.19 | summatusmentis | dcordes: final customer release was supposed to be in sept. |
| 20:06.33 | summatusmentis | dev release, non customer should be soon |
| 20:06.35 | roh | e.g. here in germany the manuf has to gurantee 2 years of manufacturing errors |
| 20:06.56 | summatusmentis | final customer release apparently won't happen in sept. but in 6 months instead |
| 20:07.26 | dcordes | summatusmentis, http://www.vnu.co.uk/vnunet/news/2192036/first-open-source-mobile-phone |
| 20:07.27 | Elrond | roh - I don't know exactly, how that applies, if germans order there stuff straight from .tw. ;-) |
| 20:07.45 | dcordes | Elrond, no, it doesn't in that case |
| 20:07.54 | dcordes | depending on where you bought |
| 20:07.57 | drath | roh: not the manufacturer but the dealer |
| 20:08.06 | roh | good question. depends on the country propably |
| 20:08.13 | roh | drath in case of import, yes |
| 20:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 20:08.22 | aloril2 | roh: ah, yeah of course: what is better GTA02 beta test that giving them free like you did with GTA01Bv[34] |
| 20:08.32 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@82.23.185.180) |
| 20:08.32 | Elrond | So I should buy from a german dealer. ;o) |
| 20:08.40 | dcordes | iirc the two years of guarantee thing applies to many euorpean countries |
| 20:09.04 | Elrond | dcordes - Yes. |
| 20:09.08 | dcordes | Elrond, maybe |
| 20:09.32 | dcordes | summatusmentis, I don't know where they got that information |
| 20:09.59 | summatusmentis | dcordes: it's still loading, my computers building a collie angstrom image :-P |
| 20:10.05 | dcordes | but will the dev version you just mentioned contain that same hardware? |
| 20:10.18 | dcordes | :) |
| 20:10.24 | nox-Hand | Bleh |
| 20:10.39 | summatusmentis | dcordes: that's the GTA02, not available yet |
| 20:10.40 | nox-Hand | Just been watching a bit of stuff about how columbine and other violent things happened |
| 20:10.46 | nox-Hand | People blame guns for the violence |
| 20:10.52 | nox-Hand | Blaming guns for violence is like blaming spoons for fat people. |
| 20:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko xipietotec (n=jackfros@cpe-67-49-247-144.dc.res.rr.com) |
| 20:11.16 | summatusmentis | dcordes: currently available is the GTA01, no wifi, smaller battery, etc. which is what will be available soon |
| 20:11.27 | Elrond | "columbine"? |
| 20:11.27 | drath | while there are certainly valid reasons for having spoons, i doubt average people have valid reasons for guns... |
| 20:11.27 | dcordes | as soon as they not blame OE it's fine |
| 20:11.29 | dcordes | lol |
| 20:11.30 | drath | comubine massacre |
| 20:11.37 | xipietotec | ....gah....still not available. |
| 20:11.50 | drath | the shooting at a high school |
| 20:11.55 | drath | in 98? 97? |
| 20:11.57 | nox-Hand | 1999 |
| 20:11.59 | drath | ah, ok |
| 20:12.03 | summatusmentis | Elrond: a school shooting in the US, in Columbine Ohio(I think) |
| 20:12.06 | guaqua | nox-Hand: restricting the access to guns does have an effect |
| 20:12.24 | xipietotec | I'm tired of hearing about the iPhone. I want my openmoko :( |
| 20:12.36 | dcordes | summatusmentis, help I'm getting a bit confused. So what will be available soon? |
| 20:12.40 | summatusmentis | xipietotec: I agree completely |
| 20:12.52 | summatusmentis | dcordes: available soon will be GTA01(dev phone) |
| 20:13.05 | summatusmentis | the mass market version(GTA01) is the one mentioned in that article |
| 20:13.14 | nox-Hand | guaqua: Slightly - but banning guns also means it will fuel the black market |
| 20:13.16 | summatusmentis | sorry, mass market version(GTA02) |
| 20:13.17 | dcordes | which will be able in 20 years or so? |
| 20:13.18 | dcordes | :P |
| 20:13.30 | summatusmentis | no, according to topic, 6 months |
| 20:13.38 | nox-Hand | Anyway, I gotta go..... bed :D |
| 20:13.41 | nox-Hand | Night yall |
| 20:13.47 | Elrond | nox-Hand - Night. |
| 20:13.58 | summatusmentis | goodnight nox-Hand |
| 20:13.59 | nox-Hand | Night Elrond |
| 20:14.01 | aloril2 | summatusmentis: I would not be surprised if dev GTA02 release took 6 months and mass market took year |
| 20:14.01 | nox-Hand | ight summatusmentis |
| 20:14.16 | xipietotec | the dev phone was supposed to be available months ago >:( |
| 20:14.40 | summatusmentis | aloril2: NO!!! DON'T SAY THAT!!! |
| 20:15.05 | xipietotec | I want a phone to haxx0r. :( |
| 20:15.13 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M87a5.m.pppool.de) |
| 20:15.23 | summatusmentis | all the hardware will be outdated by that point aloril2 :'-( |
| 20:15.24 | mmp | xipietotec: basically yes, but it's still better to have phone few months later than to have a phone with hw manufacture errors |
| 20:15.41 | xipietotec | mmp, true |
| 20:15.58 | guaqua | i'm thinking it depends mostly on the pace they get the software developed |
| 20:16.09 | xipietotec | however, it's also good to have a phone at all, since there's still no carrier and they've still not shipped anything...future of phone in doubt |
| 20:16.10 | guaqua | or not as much they, moreso us |
| 20:16.42 | guaqua | xipietotec: the phone is not limited to one carrier |
| 20:16.49 | guaqua | it's a simple gsm device |
| 20:16.49 | Elrond | "carrier"? |
| 20:16.52 | roh | xipietotec its not beeing sold via carriers |
| 20:17.06 | xipietotec | guaqua, the commerical version would more or less need carrier support, etc. |
| 20:17.08 | guaqua | Elrond: telco, operator |
| 20:17.18 | xipietotec | subsidy price. |
| 20:17.25 | Elrond | It should just work with any gsm network. |
| 20:17.30 | roh | xipietotec its beeing sold directly. carriers can resell them if they want. but we will not cripple the phone just to please them |
| 20:18.01 | *** join/#openmoko ich__ (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 20:18.15 | guaqua | nokia is selling more and more directly to customers even in the us |
| 20:18.18 | xipietotec | roh, ....I dunno, Nokia has tried for 20 years to get a direct relationship with the customers. |
| 20:18.38 | guaqua | xipietotec: your view on the whole issue is very limited |
| 20:18.50 | guaqua | you can only see the american market, i'm guessing |
| 20:18.50 | Elrond | hehe... I already considered going in a local telco shop and playing games with them "Hi. I lended this phone. Can I buy it together with a contract here?" ;o) |
| 20:19.14 | zecke | hi |
| 20:19.42 | guaqua | hey, z |
| 20:19.42 | roh | xipietotec subsidaries can also be done via the reselling dealer, regardless of the model or manuf. atleast thats how it works in a lot of countrys and with a lot of carriers. i dunno about the us though |
| 20:19.42 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 20:19.42 | xipietotec | roh, I hate the U.S. telco market. |
| 20:19.58 | summatusmentis | me too |
| 20:20.03 | xipietotec | there's no "net neutrality" of our phone systems... it's effing annoying |
| 20:20.11 | xipietotec | and one of the reasons we're ages behind europe. |
| 20:20.24 | xipietotec | in broadband access, cellphone access, etc. |
| 20:20.38 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: so mickey is on the way back home? |
| 20:20.54 | summatusmentis | xipietotec: take me w/ you! :-) |
| 20:21.03 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 20:21.48 | mjr | ahh, japan, home of the completely proprietary cellular systems |
| 20:22.06 | summatusmentis | mjr: it's pretty close in the US too |
| 20:22.18 | aloril2 | counter |
| 20:22.18 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 07:48:50 (1.326±1.3 days) (1574;238) |
| 20:22.22 | guaqua | summatusmentis: err? |
| 20:22.34 | xipietotec | mjr, all I need really is a cheap cheap data plan and SIP to run on the open-moko |
| 20:22.36 | summatusmentis | guaqua: ? |
| 20:22.56 | guaqua | have you actually seen the way the japanese build the services and the deals? |
| 20:22.57 | mjr | xipietotec, and openmoko would run on which mobile phone that works in Japan? |
| 20:23.06 | summatusmentis | guaqua: no |
| 20:23.23 | summatusmentis | but I know the proprietary-ness of the US stuff gets in the way |
| 20:23.25 | guaqua | it's on a different planet there |
| 20:23.33 | summatusmentis | lol |
| 20:23.40 | xipietotec | mjr, nono, I'm still wanting to buy the Neo thingy, I just want the pipes and petite japanese women =P |
| 20:23.55 | guaqua | there should be standards how to provide services |
| 20:23.58 | MacNorth | yeah, jp mobile providers are pretty hardcore closed |
| 20:24.00 | summatusmentis | xipietotec: take me w/ you! |
| 20:24.21 | guaqua | there was the wap fiasco... |
| 20:24.51 | guaqua | i'm guessing we'll get actual services when the phones have good browsers, not before |
| 20:24.52 | mjr | ah yes, the stillborn wap |
| 20:24.54 | aloril2 | see above page for all kind of speculation |
| 20:25.26 | xipietotec | guaqua, ...well phones do have a good browser, it's just not open source. Opera |
| 20:25.36 | some1_ | sucks |
| 20:25.45 | some1_ | :) got to be open |
| 20:25.51 | summatusmentis | minimo |
| 20:25.52 | guaqua | opera works, yes |
| 20:25.56 | mjr | ...when phones have good browsers factory-installed |
| 20:26.50 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:26.54 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178115114.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:26.56 | guaqua | well, i'm off to sleep aswell. nighty night |
| 20:27.04 | summatusmentis | goodnight guaqua |
| 20:27.33 | rxr | xipietotec: operat a good broswer, lol |
| 20:27.49 | rxr | xipietotec: expection phones ahve a good browser called khtml err. webkit |
| 20:28.04 | xipietotec | rxr, the next version of opera is going to be the first browser to fully support CSS. |
| 20:28.31 | summatusmentis | why don't they open source opera already? |
| 20:28.42 | summatusmentis | they're giving it away anyway, it's not like they're making money from it |
| 20:28.48 | xipietotec | summatusmentis, actually because they make a ton of money selling it on phones to oems =P |
| 20:28.49 | woglinde | opera has some finacial problems |
| 20:28.58 | woglinde | the stocks lost 60% |
| 20:29.09 | summatusmentis | xipietotec: I guess that makes sense, they could do the same if it were opensource |
| 20:36.46 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 20:38.47 | summatusmentis | xipietotec: do you know of any US providers that will sell just a dataplan? |
| 20:39.10 | Elrond | BTW: What's up with buildhost? Nothing new since 20th? |
| 20:39.33 | xipietotec | summatusmentis, well you can purchase just data-plans for the cellphone laptop card thingies |
| 20:40.01 | summatusmentis | xipietotec: right... but will they give you a sim card, and just a data-plan? |
| 20:40.08 | DukeOfURL | summatusmentis: I was looking at the T-Mobile brochure--it looks like USD1.00/day for data on pay-as-you-go plan |
| 20:40.21 | DukeOfURL | unlimited |
| 20:40.32 | summatusmentis | DukeOfURL: really? that's cool |
| 20:40.38 | MacNorth | unlimited as your wallet :-) |
| 20:40.47 | summatusmentis | that's actually not bad at all($31/month) |
| 20:41.41 | DukeOfURL | I haven't spoken w/ T-Mobile about it. Cingular has a USD1.00/day charge whenever you use the phone. |
| 20:41.57 | summatusmentis | DukeOfURL: any idea on txting for T-mobile? |
| 20:42.02 | summatusmentis | on pay as you go? |
| 20:42.10 | DukeOfURL | no idea |
| 20:42.13 | MacNorth | 10c to send, 5c to receive |
| 20:42.31 | DukeOfURL | MacNorth: still in Ft Collins? |
| 20:42.44 | MacNorth | yep -- going to new york for a week, tho |
| 20:42.44 | summatusmentis | MacNorth: oh... that'd be costly |
| 20:42.45 | xipietotec | That's bloody expensive really. =( |
| 20:43.05 | DukeOfURL | MacNorth: I'll be in Key West next week for some scuba |
| 20:43.14 | MacNorth | niiiiiice :-D |
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| 20:45.00 | DukeOfURL | summatusmentis: With T-Mobile, I have to determine whether "unlimited data" is just within their walled garden. |
| 20:45.33 | MacNorth | from my reading t-mo prepaid is only walled garden (abc.com, cnn.com, and some others) |
| 20:46.09 | CoreDump | IOW: worthless |
| 20:46.25 | DukeOfURL | yup, worthless |
| 20:46.44 | MacNorth | but walled only in gprs ;-) |
| 20:47.04 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: AFAIK. At least I heard nothing that he will stay longer. |
| 20:47.10 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
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| 20:48.02 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: No more math fun today? You know it must go well tuesday as I already booked a room for you. ;) |
| 20:48.14 | zecke | lol |
| 20:48.24 | zecke | aeh, hmm |
| 20:49.20 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: psst, ein drei-koepfiger affe direkt hinter dir |
| 20:50.09 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: in this appartment I have only internet near the window. This helps to focus on studying |
| 20:51.27 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: wo? |
| 20:51.57 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: You can survive in a room without internet all the day? ;) |
| 20:52.00 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 20:52.28 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: Yes, utilizing math it is doable |
| 20:52.36 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: But I see. Normally I try to study with pc's turned off. Not always successful though. |
| 20:54.52 | zecke | koen: You can help OpenMoko as well, I consider creating php bindings ;) |
| 20:55.30 | koen | :D |
| 20:57.38 | ynezz | s/php/lua/ |
| 20:58.29 | zecke | ynezz: feel free to send a patch |
| 20:58.41 | ynezz | i will |
| 20:58.52 | zecke | awesome |
| 20:58.55 | ynezz | once i get neo... |
| 20:58.57 | ynezz | :p |
| 20:59.24 | zecke | why do you need a neo to create bindings? |
| 20:59.35 | CoreDump | yeah, well, what about some news?? |
| 21:00.12 | ynezz | zecke: why would I waste my time for not existing device? ;D |
| 21:00.26 | zecke | CoreDump: well, I'm not working at OpenMoko/FIC. So I can tell you my pants and shoes are still not dry... |
| 21:00.55 | CoreDump | that remark was pointed in no general direction ;) |
| 21:01.19 | roh | zecke i work there and mine are really not dry yet. but thats nothing fic can fix ;) |
| 21:01.22 | CoreDump | !pester Doctor Mickey |
| 21:01.24 | cdbot2 | Doctor Mickey: Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? .. Are we there yet? |
| 21:05.08 | zecke | ynezz: well, just use a HTC phone |
| 21:07.26 | aloril | (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: Creating Python Examples http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/06/creating-python-examples.html |
| 21:08.00 | ynezz | zecke: broken lcd... |
| 21:08.20 | zecke | ynezz: well, you have X, it is network transparent |
| 21:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@56.Red-88-27-161.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 21:10.00 | ynezz | true, but not for my loox 720 |
| 21:10.20 | zecke | just another excuse? |
| 21:10.25 | ynezz | no |
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| 21:31.06 | zecke | night |
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| 21:40.44 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2341 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/preferred-openmoko-versions.inc: * Closes #619. Rob Bradford fixed the problem upstream. |
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| 21:51.50 | Elrond | !ombug 619 |
| 21:51.51 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 619, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown |
| 21:51.51 | cdbot2 | * * autobuild-reports(AT)openmoko.org: openmoko-tasks-0.1+svnnow-r0_230-do_compile |
| 21:51.53 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=619 |
| 21:59.29 | Kero | counter |
| 21:59.29 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 07:00:15 (1.292±1.3 days) (1575;238) |
| 22:04.37 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-160-189.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 22:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko konqui[tm] (i=freenode@deinbnc.go4bnc.de) |
| 22:13.28 | LuitvD | I hope sean keeps his promise |
| 22:13.49 | MacNorth | was it actually a promise? |
| 22:13.56 | CM | Heh, I've been away since wednesday and it seems like I haven't missed a thing :-( |
| 22:16.40 | SpeedEvil | In less than a week, we will update you about what's going on at FIC/ |
| 22:16.40 | SpeedEvil | OpenMoko, the status of GTA01/02, and our plans for selling these neos. |
| 22:16.53 | SpeedEvil | Date: Wed Jun 20 18:18:28 2007 |
| 22:18.08 | SpeedEvil | So, could be anything from 'we've binned the initial run, as they were all broken, and won't be selling anything for months' to 'on sale now!' |
| 22:18.30 | SpeedEvil | I hope something much more like the latter. |
| 22:19.20 | CoreDump | I personally hope they ditch P1 and start shipping P1.5 ASAP |
| 22:19.33 | SpeedEvil | Unless there was a wierd show-stopper bug found in the hardware that got past most QC. For example, the touchscreens on the new batch all die after about a week of active use. |
| 22:19.46 | SpeedEvil | I'm sure that's the plan. |
| 22:20.06 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB0DD76.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:20.13 | SpeedEvil | But there need to be at least several spins of the board for 1.5 it looks like. |
| 22:21.59 | LuitvD | wow, microsoft's marketing couldn't be more wrong |
| 22:22.34 | LuitvD | the poor basterds always point at others |
| 22:22.48 | SpeedEvil | In any specific way, or just generally? |
| 22:29.26 | LuitvD | well, the way they think they can show the good sides of their products |
| 22:29.26 | LuitvD | (especially vista) |
| 22:29.26 | SpeedEvil | They are often correct. |
| 22:29.26 | SpeedEvil | If you consider only microsoft products |
| 22:29.26 | LuitvD | and they're a star at jumping to conclusions |
| 22:29.27 | LuitvD | the nubmers they supply are correct. the conclusions they add to those are subtle, but wrong |
| 22:29.27 | *** join/#openmoko konqui[tm] (i=freenode@deinbnc.go4bnc.de) |
| 22:29.28 | LuitvD | take a look at their latest one: http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2149391,00.asp |
| 22:29.29 | LuitvD | 1: they look at only the first six months of their new and old OS versions, but only at the older version of RHEL |
| 22:29.29 | LuitvD | and the older version of Ubuntu |
| 22:29.29 | LuitvD | 2: they only look at 'critical security vurnerabilities' |
| 22:29.31 | LuitvD | (3: they most likely added security flaws in open source software added to the linux distribution, which isn't really part of a typical linux desktop/workstation, but that's not certain) |
| 22:29.36 | LuitvD | and what's their conclusion? vista has the least found (and fixed) vurnerabilities (in those first 6 months) and is therefor the safest |
| 22:29.36 | LuitvD | just plain wrong |
| 22:29.40 | SpeedEvil | Then there is the covert department injecting bugs into open-source projects. :) |
| 22:30.08 | LuitvD | it's the conclusion that upsets me |
| 22:30.31 | LuitvD | they can throw numbers as much as they like |
| 22:30.49 | LuitvD | but don't slam a conclusion like that onto it... |
| 22:31.25 | Elrond | People want to hear that crap. |
| 22:31.39 | Elrond | I have a big,big ignore filter by now. |
| 22:32.14 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention how many vulns get caught by nice people with source, and reported, vs black hats without source. |
| 22:32.50 | Elrond | Right. |
| 22:33.14 | LuitvD | Elrond: you have, but 90% of the people who use computers are brainwashed by things like this (read: microsoft ) |
| 22:34.06 | Elrond | LuitvD - Well, I have sold nearly all my missionary stocks. ;o) |
| 22:34.22 | LuitvD | and I do care about those brainwashed people |
| 22:34.41 | LuitvD | they can turn around, if they finally find out what it's all about |
| 22:34.46 | thomasg_gpm | well, the most interesting thing on this new microsoft "analysis" is, that not the number of vulnerabilities, but the number of FIXED vulnerabilities is what counts here. somehow it's ironic: for normal it is better if there are more fixes. but microsoft tells "us" that this doesnt matter and software with LESS fixed bugs is MORE secure. thats really absurd! |
| 22:34.57 | Elrond | together with any mercy-for-windows-users stocks. ;o) |
| 22:35.27 | LuitvD | thomasg_gpm: yeah, they give found and fixed numbers for all OS's but their own |
| 22:35.30 | SpeedEvil | (chicken) |
| 22:36.08 | LuitvD | that's really curious |
| 22:36.13 | LuitvD | unprofessional |
| 22:36.18 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Huh, what stocks would you have bought? |
| 22:36.34 | SpeedEvil | Chicken stock cubes. I realised I had some. |
| 22:36.54 | thomasg_gpm | so, going to sleep now (and hope for a post of sean on the announce-list ^^). gn8 |
| 22:37.10 | LuitvD | thomasg_gpm: sweet dreams ;) |
| 22:37.19 | Elrond | thomasg_gpm - Good night. |
| 22:37.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Battery_Charger]] |
| 22:37.27 | SpeedEvil | Seriously, the last one I ascually wanted to buy was google. |
| 22:37.29 | SpeedEvil | WAve. |
| 22:37.35 | LuitvD | thomasg_gpm: I hope those dreams come true |
| 22:37.44 | LuitvD | I have them myself too |
| 22:37.56 | LuitvD | (for how long? 2 months?) |
| 22:38.07 | thomasg_gpm | dreams of flying penguins, surfing on radiowaves :) |
| 22:38.14 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorthXP (n=daijobu@65-102-228-28.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 22:38.24 | LuitvD | penguins with blue tooth |
| 22:38.32 | LuitvD | teeth |
| 22:38.33 | Vegar | blue teeth* |
| 22:38.34 | LuitvD | ah heck |
| 22:38.48 | LuitvD | a blue tooth |
| 22:40.25 | LuitvD | going to sleep too |
| 22:40.32 | LuitvD | got work to do tomorrow |
| 22:41.00 | LuitvD | byebye |
| 22:54.29 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 23:01.05 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 23:01.09 | dietricha | counter |
| 23:01.09 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in a day 06:29:25 (1.270±1.3 days) (1576;238) |
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| 23:45.04 | axeeOo | hello guys, I just heard about the OpenMoko project, I think it's fantastic! Could someone shell out some advice for getting involved (software) with the project? I've checked the website, a wonderful resource! |
| 23:45.04 | aloril | axeeOo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:48.11 | *** join/#openmoko dcordes (n=ucordes@f048011105.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 23:48.22 | dcordes | would openmoko be possible on an HTC s710? |
| 23:49.08 | *** join/#openmoko Vegar (i=vegar@51-142-151-213.mtulink.net) |
| 23:49.21 | SpeedEvil | axeeOo: basically - look at the 'emulation' bit of the main page |
| 23:49.33 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0AE42.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:49.57 | SpeedEvil | axeeOo: which will tell you how to setup emulators. Or, in hopefully a few days, you can buy hardware. |
| 23:49.57 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: what's the screen res, flash, and RAM? |
| 23:50.41 | dcordes | SpeedEvil, http://www.htc.com/product/03-product_s710.htm |
| 23:50.57 | SpeedEvil | OM is basically a linux distribution, a small one, but not fittable in several meg. It leverages heavily desktop stuff, so won't fit on some phones. |
| 23:51.39 | axeeOo | cheers SpeedEvil |
| 23:52.24 | dcordes | SpeedEvil, is "TI's OMAP 850" cpu spupported? |
| 23:52.28 | axeeOo | I'm a CS student with a free summer and I need a new phone, one which I can 'hack-at' :-) |
| 23:52.49 | SpeedEvil | dcordes: basically. any CPU with GCC on it is 'supported' |
| 23:53.29 | dcordes | SpeedEvil, how about GSM.. would I be able to make phone calls with that device? |
| 23:53.38 | SpeedEvil | You also need documents, or to hack the details of all the hardware on it though. |
| 23:53.38 | SpeedEvil | And enough ROM/RAM |
| 23:55.16 | dcordes | SpeedEvil, don't you know about someone who tried OM on HTC phones? |
| 23:57.48 | stefan_schmidt | dcordes: ph5 already working on some parts of this. |
| 23:58.20 | stefan_schmidt | dcordes: Mainly HTC support in gsmd and theming for QVGA instead of VGA |