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| 00:52.27 | noidd | software defined radio rocks |
| 00:52.40 | noidd | i've been looking at buying one for the house to do work on the HF amateur bands |
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| 00:59.29 | mrcucumber | that would be nifty |
| 01:01.15 | noidd | all your encoding and decoding is done in software\ |
| 01:01.39 | mrcucumber | so your talking like gnuradio |
| 01:02.08 | noidd | I saw a case where the guy recorded the sound from one particular data source that he thought he heard a signal from and couldn't extract it from the noice |
| 01:02.10 | noidd | noise |
| 01:03.57 | noidd | they optimised the recieve algorithym, re-loaded that saved file and pulled the data signal out of the nboice |
| 01:03.59 | noidd | noice |
| 01:04.00 | noidd | noise |
| 01:04.02 | noidd | ugh |
| 01:04.05 | noidd | yeah, like gnuradio |
| 01:04.35 | mrcucumber | sweet |
| 01:04.59 | mrcucumber | I definitly think it's cool, kit's to expensive tho :) |
| 01:05.10 | noidd | http://www.flex-radio.com is closer to what i was thinking tho |
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| 01:45.13 | mrcucumber | any developers here? |
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| 01:49.17 | mrcucumber | hello |
| 01:51.12 | roh | mrcucumber whats your question? |
| 01:51.42 | mrcucumber | I'm trying to do the first task on the "Freshman toodo task" http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Freshman_todo |
| 01:52.00 | mrcucumber | and it asks to create a version flag, I don't know how these things are usualy handeled. |
| 01:52.28 | mrcucumber | should I just create a static output portion? or do you use some kind of macro to pull the version |
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| 01:54.11 | roh | mrcucumber http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=249 has some more details. svn revision is what laf0rge asks for |
| 01:58.00 | mrcucumber | roh:the bug report is pretty slim, I realize that it want's svn revision.. but it doesn't say any more than that, should it figure it out at compile time from some C macro? |
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| 01:59.52 | roh | morning LaF0rge |
| 02:00.45 | roh | mrcucumber yep. i think it should be figured out on compiletime. via macro is propably the cleanest solution |
| 02:02.01 | mrcucumber | okay dokey |
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| 02:14.27 | mrcucumber | roh:this is actually kind of tricky :P |
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| 02:19.57 | roh | mrcucumber i know. but there are other projects out there who do that. take a look at uboot. it also outputs a revision including svn on startup |
| 02:20.34 | sunrises | hi all, does openmoko uses loadkmap? |
| 02:20.35 | aloril | sunrises: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:21.34 | roh | sunrises dunno. look at the busybox config if its compiled in |
| 02:22.28 | sunrises | roh: my problem is where to find the binary kmap files |
| 02:22.37 | sunrises | to use with loadkmap |
| 02:22.52 | roh | uh. that should be in the busybox docs |
| 02:23.00 | sunrises | huh |
| 02:23.06 | roh | i need to move.. bbl. |
| 02:23.09 | sunrises | so it seems i have to build them |
| 02:23.15 | sunrises | i'll take a look at doc, thanks |
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| 03:25.38 | baird | Attempting to build OpenMoko on a PPC Gentoo system (that's a lot faster that the 800MHz MiniITX..) All's going well, although #include<asm/page.h> had to be hacked out of build/tmp/work/ppc-linux/perl-native-5.8.7-r3/perl-5.8.7/ext/IPC/SysV/SysV.xs to get that package to build. |
| 03:26.36 | baird | (with MokoMakefile, that is) |
| 03:36.03 | cjb | baird: is it Apple hardware? |
| 03:36.20 | cjb | not that this helps with your problem, I'm just interested in PPC. |
| 03:45.08 | summatusmentis | trying to decide if it's worth wiping AIX, and if it is, whether or not I should put a GUI on it |
| 03:45.19 | baird | cjb: yup. My 14" G4 iBook |
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| 04:00.35 | roh | baird hm.. interresting |
| 04:03.43 | roh | baird i know there are some endian issues with dfu-util, but perl is plain like oe builds it.. that should error the same with every OE |
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| 04:12.14 | encompass | hello everyone! |
| 04:12.31 | encompass | I am a python programmer... is there room for me in the Open Moko phone? |
| 04:12.31 | aloril | encompass: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 04:12.51 | encompass | thanks aloril |
| 04:12.55 | encompass | :P |
| 04:13.16 | aloril | there is room for every developer ;-) |
| 04:13.38 | encompass | does it run python now? |
| 04:14.11 | aloril | yes |
| 04:14.22 | mickey|fic | <---- Mr. Python |
| 04:14.23 | aloril | (not in default image, but you can install it) |
| 04:14.27 | mickey|fic | you bet it runs on the Neo |
| 04:14.35 | encompass | fancy that |
| 04:15.54 | encompass | how do I get started with one of these phones? Is purchasing a non working phone neccessary? |
| 04:16.10 | aloril | current state of OpenMoko specific bindings: http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/06/state-of-bindings.html |
| 04:16.37 | aloril | encompass: see MokoMakefile link from FAQ, you can use QEMU |
| 04:17.09 | encompass | I jsut read this post :P |
| 04:17.19 | encompass | I never finished it :/ |
| 04:17.22 | encompass | cool |
| 04:18.37 | encompass | When is the scheduled release date date for this phone. Do we ahve one yet? |
| 04:20.18 | encompass | The reason I ask, is I am trying to find something a little more different then the ever popular nokia in Finland. |
| 04:21.03 | aloril | date not yet knows, but we should have news soon |
| 04:21.07 | aloril | counter |
| 04:21.07 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (75% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 2 days 15:49:26 (2.659±2.7 days) (1545;233) |
| 04:27.20 | Ycros | is there a counter that counts how many times the counter has been wrong? :) |
| 04:30.23 | aloril | hehe, eventually it hopefully is right ;-) |
| 04:31.45 | aloril | which reminds me to adjust P1+ counter ... |
| 04:32.54 | Ycros | eventually, yes. :P |
| 04:33.25 | aloril | also if you count all counters, then they together are right ;-) |
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| 04:36.08 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at Vanille.de> Re: Help.. How to apply patch to BitBake recipe file? |
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| 04:55.23 | aloril | fudged P1+/P2, maybe now too conservative but .. we will see ;-) |
| 04:55.56 | MacNorthXP | counter |
| 04:55.57 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (75% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 2 days 15:32:01 (2.647±2.6 days) (1546;234) |
| 04:56.31 | aloril | P1+/P2 only visible with "/msg counter aloril?" or at web page |
| 04:57.18 | encompass | I wonder what this sound card is capable of... |
| 04:59.39 | encompass | has anyone played sounds such as an encoded file... like ogg? |
| 05:01.05 | aloril | IIRC what was talked floating point ogg codec was too slow, but integer codec was OK |
| 05:02.35 | encompass | ogg takes more the interprete than mp3 am I correct? |
| 05:04.20 | aloril | difference between integer codecs of ogg and mp3 wasn't that big, but I guess mp3 was faster (I might remember wrong or maybe even there was not real test) |
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| 05:56.31 | Gunshard | /channels |
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| 06:28.59 | schurig | [06:56] <aloril> P1+/P2 only visible with "/msg counter aloril?" or at web page |
| 06:29.10 | schurig | s/counter aloril/aloril counter/ |
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| 07:00.11 | sunrises | hi all, a question about busybox...do you know if mount accept the -U option? |
| 07:01.28 | sunrises | seems not |
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| 07:48.19 | kaktuspalme | where can i buy an FIC NEO1973? |
| 07:48.20 | aloril | kaktuspalme: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 07:49.57 | kaktuspalme | thx :) |
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| 07:52.26 | schurig | so many people here asked where to one that I guess two things will happen: a) one third of the people won't actually buy one |
| 07:52.47 | schurig | b) another third of them buys them, but are highly dissatisfied, becuase of it's development status |
| 07:53.01 | schurig | c) another third doesn't get a phone, because FIC will run out of phones |
| 07:53.10 | koen | c) they all complain about VAT and duty |
| 07:53.30 | schurig | that leaves no d) no more phones for real developers :-) |
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| 07:56.56 | kaktuspalme | :) |
| 07:57.21 | kaktuspalme | Perhaps i want to try developing apps for it |
| 07:58.36 | kaktuspalme | so im interested to buy one |
| 08:01.12 | roh | schurig i don't really see a problem there. when we really sell so many develphones so we run out of them we can just make more. |
| 08:01.51 | schurig | roh: hey, that a) b) c) thing was not meant tooo seriously, althought I guess b) will happen |
| 08:02.03 | roh | schurig its mp now, so its just another run and voila. could take a bit but is no problem. problems you have to get to that point :) |
| 08:02.16 | schurig | roh: "we can just make more" ... if you have enought all parts, e.g. LCDs, on stock |
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| 08:02.35 | dotx | hello |
| 08:02.41 | schurig | roh: what means "its mp now"? What is "mp" ? |
| 08:02.52 | schurig | management problem? |
| 08:02.55 | roh | schurig i don't think too many people will buy it too fast. i think we have warned enough that its a devel device. |
| 08:03.00 | roh | schurig mass production |
| 08:03.04 | schurig | ah |
| 08:04.38 | schurig | I'd buy one and look a) into the phoning app and b) into GPS stuff |
| 08:06.07 | roh | hehe... gps is 'there is a gpsd which you can talk to' and phoning... i'm glad if we have software which is able to make a call after inserting a sim when we ship them. propably you will have to update the software first anyways |
| 08:06.37 | roh | so its still work to be done to get to the point where its a enduser device |
| 08:06.44 | hrw | 10:06 hrw@home:~$ cd devel/openmoko/ |
| 08:06.44 | hrw | 10:06 hrw@home:openmoko$ make update-makefile;make update;cd build/; . ../setup-env;nice bitbake openmoko-devel-image |
| 08:06.49 | hrw | time to refresh phone |
| 08:07.07 | koen | you're using the makefile wrong |
| 08:07.28 | hrw | koen: maybe - but this works |
| 08:07.33 | Rince | roh: where is your problem? The first shipment is for developers and they should be able to upgrade everyhting |
| 08:07.54 | roh | Rince no problem. just a comment |
| 08:09.13 | roh | hrw you could do a make update-makefile;make update-openmoko; make openmoko-devel-image also.. should save some seconds since the oe does not need to be updated at the current setup |
| 08:10.19 | roh | koen correct me if i'm wrong here.. but when oe would be updated another make setup run would be a good idea right? |
| 08:10.56 | koen | you're wrong |
| 08:11.08 | koen | using the makefile is a bad idea for *developers* |
| 08:11.41 | kaktuspalme | hmm oh i've seen, i can develope apps using qemu |
| 08:11.52 | kaktuspalme | perhaps this is the better way at the moment |
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| 08:12.55 | hrw | koen: its one cd + one ctrl-r operation |
| 08:14.04 | hrw | roh: I avoid using make openmoko-devel-imag because with my way I end in shell which can run bitbake directly |
| 08:14.24 | roh | koen its about getting reproducable builds for people not familiar with oe. the make setup was needed everytime the oe-om moko changed afaik |
| 08:14.45 | roh | hrw mokomakefile does exactly the same |
| 08:15.26 | hrw | roh: I used bitbake before it was named bitbake so I prefer to use bitbake |
| 08:15.49 | roh | hrw :) n.p. |
| 08:16.15 | roh | hrw then you can ignore it completely and just do svn up in openmoko/ |
| 08:18.23 | kaktuspalme | how fast does openmoko run in QEMU? Fast like on the phone? |
| 08:18.33 | roh | even a bit faster |
| 08:18.38 | hrw | roh: openmoko is one of things which I do in spare time (which is limited) so I prefer to use as simple way as possible |
| 08:18.43 | hrw | kaktuspalme: depends on hardware |
| 08:19.03 | hrw | kaktuspalme: on some of my machines it will be slower on some faster.. |
| 08:19.12 | kaktuspalme | hrw: ah cool ok :) |
| 08:19.35 | kaktuspalme | is the processor in Neo a x86 arm or ppc processor`? |
| 08:19.43 | roh | arm9 |
| 08:20.09 | hrw | s3c2410 == arm920t == armv4t |
| 08:20.19 | kaktuspalme | thx |
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| 08:22.58 | koen | arm9 is a useless denominator |
| 08:23.11 | koen | you want to now the instructionset |
| 08:25.19 | hrw | there is arm3/4/5/6/7/9/11 numbering, there is arm3/4/5/6 (with variants), then goes cores like arm920t,arm926t,arm1136-f etc |
| 08:25.24 | hrw | arm naming is mess |
| 08:26.08 | koen | and then you encounter the intel ARMs which are an even bigger mess |
| 08:26.18 | hrw | arm920t is armv4t but arm926t-ejs/arm926t-es are armv5te or armv4t? |
| 08:26.42 | hrw | o yes.. |
| 08:27.26 | drath | armv5te |
| 08:27.28 | hrw | strongarm, pxa21x/25x/26x/27x/32x (last ones released by Marvell), iop2xx/3xx, ixp42x/43x/4xx... |
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| 08:32.18 | rwhitby | hrw: re . ../setup-env - mokomakefile is explicitly designed so that developers can get to bitbake directly like that. it is not an incorrect use as koen states. |
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| 08:45.12 | bedboi | hi there. |
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| 09:18.56 | kaktuspalme | bedboi: |
| 09:19.02 | bedboi | hi kaktuspalme |
| 09:19.17 | bedboi | is there any fresh news? |
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| 09:24.07 | pH5 | Elrond: the clock bit (0x2000 in 0x08 on channel 0) not only enables the timestamp counter, but also the functionality of registers 0x20,0x21,0x23 and 0x2c on channels 1-8 |
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| 09:29.51 | hrw | IOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/hrw/devel/openmoko/oe/packages/openocd/./openocd-link-static.patch' |
| 09:29.54 | hrw | ;( |
| 09:31.06 | Stephmw | hi guys |
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| 09:40.03 | pH5 | Elrond: further, on channel 1, the word at 0x01 needs to be set up before 0x23 can be used. |
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| 09:44.16 | pH5 | Elrond: bit 0x8 in register 0x01, more specifically |
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| 10:04.30 | zecke | mickey|fic: I'm back later BUT can you explain me the moko-gsmd-connection.h and the methods you have declared as 'signals' |
| 10:04.55 | zecke | mickey|fic: they are not defined anywhere and I wonder why you don't have the signals in the Class (signals in GObject are still black magic to me) |
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| 10:12.09 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|fic: openocd-native build is broken. Applying the patch does not work. |
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| 10:13.35 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 10:13.36 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|fic: oh, and my nightly rebuild from scratch has also problems with lbftdi-native |
| 10:13.39 | stefan_schmidt | hi TRIsoft |
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| 10:15.05 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|fic: http://pastebin.ca/583369 |
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| 10:19.46 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, the libftdi problems smells like a do_patch problem as we have a patch to disable doxygen |
| 10:20.02 | mickey|fic | stefan_schmidt: i probably broke something during the oe update. |
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| 10:20.09 | mickey|fic | let me check openocd and libftdi |
| 10:20.53 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|fic: That's my guess, too. |
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| 10:21.52 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|fic: indeed. A -c rebuild shows that the patch applying fails for libftdi |
| 10:22.10 | Placid | Morning all |
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| 10:27.00 | mickey|fic | CIA3: fix libftdi-native |
| 10:27.05 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, CIA is on holiday |
| 10:27.08 | mickey|fic | CIA21: fix openocd-native |
| 10:27.15 | mickey|fic | all done. any more problems? |
| 10:27.22 | stefan_schmidt | let me check |
| 10:29.19 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|fic: both fine now |
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| 10:30.38 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, our OM-bug bot is also on holiday. |
| 10:31.02 | stefan_schmidt | OM-bug: Close #617 |
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| 10:38.04 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: fetching of openocd is broken |
| 10:39.00 | roh | hrw i just build openocd and libftdi.. works |
| 10:39.24 | hrw | I faked stamps for openocd-native to skip it |
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| 10:50.05 | zecke | mickey|fic: got a second? |
| 10:50.45 | zecke | mickey|fic: can you explain how the 'signals' functions in http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokogsmd/moko-gsmd-connection.h are supposed to work? |
| 10:50.56 | mickey|fic | i could, but not now. doing a video in a second |
| 10:51.04 | mickey|fic | will catch you later |
| 10:51.06 | mickey|fic | (hopefully) |
| 10:54.15 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: Are you sure? I just rebuild all from scratch and it works after mickey|fic fix |
| 10:55.35 | schurig | kaktuspalme: on a 1.00 GHz AMD, it qemu runs VERY slow, slower than my (PXA255, 400 MHz) based devices |
| 10:55.38 | hrw | ok then - I will not retest as I do not need it |
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| 10:59.03 | schurig | pH5: if the clock bit enables 0x20,0x21,0x23 and 0x2c and being 0x23 is a larger memory that you can access after pointing 0x20 to it, then maybe some other bit let's the chip update this 4kB large buffer automatically. Maybe this 4kB range is some history log buffer |
| 10:59.52 | schurig | aloril: ^^^ mickey does a video, so I guess they announce something with a video PR event |
| 10:59.55 | kaktuspalme | schurig: i've got an AMD X2 3800+ |
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| 11:00.13 | schurig | kaktuspalme: yea, that's something more decent :-) |
| 11:00.36 | schurig | kaktuspalme: but it let's you code worse (slow computers tend to make the programmer spend more time on fast algorithms) |
| 11:00.42 | schurig | :-) |
| 11:01.18 | kaktuspalme | schurig: yes i know |
| 11:01.21 | kaktuspalme | :) |
| 11:01.33 | kaktuspalme | hmm, i can use an old pentium 3 with 450 Mhz :) |
| 11:01.58 | kaktuspalme | i always try to make a program fast as i can at the moment |
| 11:02.10 | kaktuspalme | I'm learning C now |
| 11:06.59 | ynezz | i don't care about some announcement, just open that damn webshop |
| 11:07.53 | ewon | how about I just type my cc details onto the channel here, and someone can bill me and send me a phone when it comes out |
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| 11:07.59 | ewon | I can trust you guys, right? |
| 11:08.04 | ynezz | no |
| 11:09.13 | pH5 | schurig: sometimes 0x20 is increased by 2*(number of words read from 0x23), sometimes it's increased by 2*(number of words read from 0x23)+2. I haven't figured out how this depends on the register setup of 0x00-0x07, but it doesn't seem as simple as a bit switch for that behaviour. |
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| 11:09.23 | aloril2 | ynezz: what if that announcement is just that (open web shop)? ;-) |
| 11:09.36 | ynezz | don't think so :p |
| 11:11.16 | schurig | aloril2: *IF* this video is an announcement and *IF* I'd be responsible for PR in such a big company like FIC, *THEN* I'd announce more than just a web shop on a video |
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| 11:13.31 | aloril2 | schurig: sure, but it could still be part of it |
| 11:13.46 | schurig | aloril2: yes, it could be mentioned |
| 11:14.00 | schurig | ewon: please give me your cc defails |
| 11:14.14 | schurig | ewon: and thanks, that I can order one Neo and you'll pay for that ! :-) |
| 11:15.01 | aloril2 | all speculation of course until actual news, but else we have now ;-) |
| 11:17.07 | kaktuspalme | can i Order a neo too? :D |
| 11:17.26 | bedboi | so the time has come |
| 11:17.55 | bedboi | do you think the neo will work in USA? |
| 11:18.03 | bedboi | i'll be in USA for two months |
| 11:18.12 | rwhitby | no, the electrons go the wrong way in the USA |
| 11:18.23 | hads | heh |
| 11:18.45 | rwhitby | It's GSM. it works anywhere there is GSM. That's the "global" part of GSM :-) |
| 11:18.52 | bedboi | rwhitby: well you should know that there are different bands all over the world |
| 11:18.53 | drath | rwhitby: only when looking at them from where you are |
| 11:19.19 | drath | but then you're standing upside-down anyway... ;) |
| 11:19.21 | bedboi | rwhitby: if you go with dual-band phone it won't work in usa |
| 11:19.36 | roh | please read the faq. of course its quad-band |
| 11:19.41 | bedboi | ok |
| 11:21.13 | bedboi | so i need it :) |
| 11:21.59 | rwhitby | bedboi - it's quand band - so it will work on just about any gsm network anywhere in the world. |
| 11:22.33 | rwhitby | I'm sure you can probably find some obscure operator in upper whoop whoop who uses a fifth band, but no-one ever uses their phone there. |
| 11:22.39 | bedboi | ahha |
| 11:22.56 | bedboi | I really need to get a neo. |
| 11:23.12 | bedboi | just before leaving italy |
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| 11:37.08 | Morglet | Always be careful to speak in a monotone when using Neo in the US though ... otherwise the RIAA will classify it as copyrighted music and SoundExchange will collect performance royalties. ;-) |
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| 11:55.18 | SpeedEvil | On capacitive sensors: See http://www.analog.com/library/analogdialogue/archives/40-10/cap_sensors.html |
| 11:55.22 | SpeedEvil | Fun. |
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| 12:15.31 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Contacts/02]] |
| 12:16.46 | hrw | Contacts/02 is nice |
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| 13:01.11 | Linux_Galore | hai folks |
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| 13:58.45 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Autobuilder timestamps 20070622102551 mean today 10:25 and 51 seconds? |
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| 13:59.01 | woglinde | jo |
| 13:59.20 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: probably |
| 13:59.50 | stefan_schmidt | So the re-open from http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=617 is already outdated? |
| 13:59.59 | zecke | woglinde: I found shelter in Bjoerns appartment |
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| 14:00.34 | woglinde | zecke hm |
| 14:00.43 | woglinde | let me ask leo what it means |
| 14:01.00 | zecke | obdach,schutz |
| 14:01.08 | woglinde | Bauhütte |
| 14:01.10 | woglinde | soso |
| 14:01.22 | woglinde | are you on the run? |
| 14:01.47 | zecke | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:03.47 | kiney | counter |
| 14:03.48 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (75% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 2 days 10:58:06 (2.457±2.5 days) (1547;234) |
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| 14:40.58 | ninHer | hi all |
| 14:41.07 | ninHer | hi all |
| 14:43.01 | Placid | hihi! |
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| 15:03.48 | Elrond | pH5 - Can you update the wiki appropiately (unless you already did)? |
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| 15:06.43 | Elrond | Nothing built on the buildhost since two days?! |
| 15:08.44 | gamin | I wonder what keeps Sean from making any kind of official statement about the state of the project... |
| 15:10.37 | aloril | maybe he wants to say "GTABv04 available for order here, GTA02 specs are these, etc.." |
| 15:10.39 | gamin | to quote one of the beloved former us-admin officials: there are the known knowns, the unknown knowns, the known unknowns and the unknown unknowns :P |
| 15:11.14 | gamin | just let us know the knowns :) |
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| 15:11.44 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:12.31 | aloril | we should know that in 5 days |
| 15:13.24 | gamin | aloril: in five days counting from perhaps any day now :)) |
| 15:13.47 | PBeck | counter |
| 15:13.48 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (75% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 2 days 10:23:06 (2.433±2.4 days) (1548;234) |
| 15:14.13 | aloril | well, it depends whether you believe Sean, he said 2 days ago that announcement in less than week |
| 15:14.14 | PBeck | gamin: a dynamic counter => any day -1 ;) |
| 15:15.31 | gamin | aloril: hmm, despite all his qualities, Sean is not really the man to look into the future *g* |
| 15:15.58 | aloril | gamin: yeah, maybe that 90% trust for "there will be news" is too high |
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| 15:17.34 | gamin | aloril - it is a bit like the south-european "manana" when you ask for getting something done... |
| 15:18.33 | koen | mañana is spanish |
| 15:18.42 | gamin | koen: I know :) |
| 15:19.56 | aloril | well, in past when it was said that there will announcement, it usually has happened (though I recall it being delayed for some days at one point) |
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| 15:21.34 | gamin | so there shall be an announcement in four days... |
| 15:22.05 | gamin | I start to understand how Moses must have felt... |
| 15:23.20 | PBeck | sean is not good at estimation ^^ |
| 15:23.53 | gamin | maybe we should nag harald instead |
| 15:23.57 | aloril | well, they can always have announcement like "announcement has been delayed" ;-) |
| 15:24.25 | PBeck | gamin: lol ;) |
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| 15:32.18 | Elrond | Why is there no .desktop file for openmoko-today? |
| 15:37.10 | hrw | Elrond: because it is autostarting instead of desktop |
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| 15:38.11 | Elrond | hrw - I thought, openmoko-mainmenu was intended to be the startup thingy? |
| 15:43.49 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: No, today is startup and mainmenu will be merged into mainmenu-applet. |
| 15:48.46 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Ahh. |
| 15:49.13 | Elrond | I'll keep mb-desktop-2 for a while ;-) |
| 15:50.05 | Rince | So... finally... to program for bmc patrol is a nightmare... |
| 15:50.37 | Elrond | bmc patrol? |
| 15:51.02 | Rince | a monitoring system |
| 15:51.12 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 15:51.15 | Rince | with it's own programming language (PSL) |
| 15:51.58 | Elrond | Yet another application defined programmling language? |
| 15:52.53 | Rince | yes |
| 15:53.10 | Rince | well - it is okay. Most of the time. but it can not do enough for me to be elegant ;) |
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| 16:12.17 | MacNorthXP_ | heh http://consumerist.com/consumer/early-termination-fees/175-fee-if-you-cancel-iphone-even-though-the-phones-cost-isnt-subsidized-271356.php |
| 16:18.47 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Contacts/02]] |
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| 16:20.43 | kdean06 | Last time I checked, only the dialer worked. How far has that come since then? |
| 16:22.49 | pH5 | Elrond: I've put some information into svn doc/. Ideally, I'd like to convert the wiki page to the same structure. The register descriptions should really be separated from the packet protocol. |
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| 16:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 16:24.52 | SpeedEvil | The 'rough seas' subject was a clue. |
| 16:24.59 | SpeedEvil | The next product will be a lifeboat! |
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| 16:51.23 | koen | SpeedEvil: but without gps ;) |
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| 17:01.55 | high-rez | counter |
| 17:01.55 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (75% for P1<=2007-07-07) 90% for *news* in 2 days 09:29:02 (2.395±2.4 days) (1549;234) |
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| 17:40.15 | sannes | Is it just me or does other people also want to shout out parry! parry! when they see counter ? :D |
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| 17:54.06 | aloril | counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in |
| 17:54.06 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in |
| 17:55.32 | buz | it says NEWS there |
| 17:56.36 | bedboi | what's up? |
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| 18:05.00 | aloril | just getting slightly more pessimistic (about no news) |
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| 18:16.30 | aloril | (or have I missed something?) |
| 18:17.33 | *** join/#openmoko schurig_home (n=schurig@p54B2B6BE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:17.46 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/nl]] |
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| 18:19.48 | mmp | aloril: counter |
| 18:19.49 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 08:50:05 (2.368±2.4 days) (1550;235) |
| 18:20.24 | mmp | hmm, would be nice, today I learned that C65 doesn't like rain very much:( |
| 18:29.17 | buz | ~lart travel industry |
| 18:29.17 | apt | whips out a hot clue gun and makes sure that travel industry is stuck to the floor |
| 18:29.25 | buz | lol that one fits well |
| 18:33.10 | koen | pH5, Elrond: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/feed/armv4t/base/sphyrna-console_0.0+svn20070622-r0_armv4t.ipk |
| 18:34.36 | pH5 | koen: fast! |
| 18:34.57 | pH5 | :D |
| 18:37.27 | Elrond | koen - You're crazy ;) |
| 18:37.33 | woglinde | re |
| 18:38.05 | koen | pH5: I did cheat a bit by doing -c unpack, svn up, -c package_write |
| 18:38.30 | Elrond | ;) |
| 18:39.01 | woglinde | he elrond |
| 18:39.21 | koen | time to find out if 'heroes' is any good |
| 18:39.40 | Elrond | Hi woglinde |
| 18:39.58 | kiney | counter |
| 18:39.58 | schurig_home | Elrond: sphyrna already locked to 8 satellites and gave you your position with only to 2 cm difference? |
| 18:39.59 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 08:40:00 (2.361±2.4 days) (1551;235) |
| 18:40.59 | Elrond | schurig_home - 2cm? Sooo much? ;o) sphyrna can do 1nm resulution! ;o) |
| 18:41.55 | schurig_home | Elrond: no one plans to send a GPS guided rocket into Osama's left nose hole |
| 18:42.04 | pH5 | lol, and that's without having figured out the chip yet. imagine the possibilities once we understand it :) |
| 18:43.18 | webjames | my garmin gps 60 get accurate to around 3 meters, shamfull really! |
| 18:43.49 | Elrond | schurig_home - We want to do seismological analysis using the neo! ;) |
| 18:44.26 | SpeedEvil | The large amount of inaccuracy is due to ionospheric uncertainty. |
| 18:45.07 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I know. |
| 18:46.29 | SpeedEvil | Interesting possibilities arise if you have a global database. |
| 18:46.35 | pH5 | isn't there some kind of ionospheric weather forecast provided by global locate? |
| 18:46.37 | SpeedEvil | For example - log a position, or a track. |
| 18:46.43 | SpeedEvil | No - AIUI |
| 18:47.02 | SpeedEvil | then when you get home, and can download data for that time-period, the data gets better |
| 18:47.16 | SpeedEvil | From say 3m error to 1m |
| 18:47.27 | SpeedEvil | Or if you can download GPRS |
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| 18:47.39 | Elrond | We could use the hammerhead to acquire such info, right? |
| 18:47.49 | SpeedEvil | In limited cases. |
| 18:48.02 | SpeedEvil | We pretty much need a stationary neo, with a good view of the sky. |
| 18:48.10 | SpeedEvil | Or at least a decent lock. |
| 18:48.19 | Elrond | Yeah, I assumed that. |
| 18:48.23 | Elrond | Neo on the roof. ;o) |
| 18:48.30 | SpeedEvil | This could in principle be every neo on charge |
| 18:48.58 | Elrond | (last sunday "my" neo was on the roof of a car. usb cable through the door to the laptop. ;o) |
| 18:49.12 | SpeedEvil | they'd contribute the geometric inaccuracies they are recieving. |
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| 18:49.18 | Elrond | (the people on the parking place looked very strange, I guess ;o) ) |
| 18:49.36 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: no, the answer is DGPS |
| 18:49.40 | webjames | Location Games are a must |
| 18:49.47 | SpeedEvil | DGPS isn't the same thing. |
| 18:50.10 | SpeedEvil | DGPS gives a rough correction for an area. |
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| 18:50.18 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: relative local to your position (200 Meters) determine the RELATIVE velocities to all satellites in sight and compare this to with their known position |
| 18:50.30 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: they can then create a correction factor for each satellite |
| 18:50.55 | SpeedEvil | Yes - if you can have a local unit to correct, that's the gold standard. |
| 18:51.01 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: and device where you have access to the rel vel per sat can utilize this info and create better accurancy |
| 18:51.13 | schurig_home | actually, the HammerHead chip would allow for this |
| 18:51.35 | SpeedEvil | If you can synthesise a local unit, through accurate real-time modelling of the ionosphere, then you can potentially get differential accuracy in much wider places. |
| 18:51.35 | schurig_home | s/200 Meters/200 Kilometers/ :-) |
| 18:52.03 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: here in germany the government and some universities have those stations |
| 18:52.11 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: it's partually even free |
| 18:52.17 | SpeedEvil | Yes, and some of them have the data downloadable. |
| 18:52.20 | SpeedEvil | Some do not. |
| 18:52.28 | SpeedEvil | And many that I've found delay the data. |
| 18:52.32 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: they broadcast this in 2m band, per GSM and also they have web servers with a low-level protocol to access this |
| 18:52.54 | SpeedEvil | per GSM? |
| 18:53.02 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: yes, per GSM |
| 18:53.19 | SpeedEvil | Do you mean over GSM? And if so, in what manner. |
| 18:53.21 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: GSM has kind of time-slots, and one time-slot is reserved for this |
| 18:53.28 | kensan | ™/part |
| 18:54.06 | SpeedEvil | It's not global though. A global free real-time model would be nice. |
| 18:54.23 | SpeedEvil | In some places there will be better solutions. |
| 18:57.21 | SpeedEvil | schurig_home: I don't suppose that you've got docs as to how it's broadcast by the GSM providers, and if the Neo radio can output the information? |
| 18:57.47 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: http://www.adv-online.de/extdeu/broker.jsp?uMen=67770f15-8e71-3c01-e1f3-351ec0023010 |
| 18:58.30 | SpeedEvil | It's in some wierd gibberish :) /me wanders off to google-translate. |
| 18:58.47 | schurig_home | "as format the international standard RTCM SC-104, Version 2.3 is used. The data is transfer in a secondly frequency" |
| 19:00.23 | schurig_home | they do this with area-correction-factors and also with virtual-reference-stations, whatever that means |
| 19:01.15 | SpeedEvil | This is not over the GSM band though |
| 19:01.34 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: than your translation is broken |
| 19:01.36 | SpeedEvil | It's another radio, which is not in the neo |
| 19:01.46 | SpeedEvil | I'm referring to the originating standard |
| 19:01.52 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: open the original page, even when you don't know german, you can Ctrl-F for "GSM" and find it |
| 19:02.03 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: the original standard just defines the data format |
| 19:04.25 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: the over protocol is NTRIP, that works via TCP/IP, so you need a GPRS connection |
| 19:04.30 | SpeedEvil | I don't read that as broadcast - I read that as dialup, or GPRS |
| 19:04.44 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: right, I'd do the same |
| 19:04.47 | SpeedEvil | Right - it's not broadcast over special timeslots |
| 19:05.01 | SpeedEvil | It's just internet. |
| 19:05.19 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: but the first version is NOT internet, it's the low-level GSM protocol |
| 19:06.09 | schurig_home | GSM is not just talk and sms, there are other data types there as well, e.g. operator initiated reconfigurations of GSM equipment. And, yes, this DGPS data |
| 19:07.04 | SpeedEvil | Yes, I know there are other data types. However, that bit - in specifying a cost at the bottom, implies to me that this is not a broadcast service |
| 19:07.48 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: for example, here is another german page: http://www.lverma.nrw.de/produkte/raumbezug/sapos/dienste/HEPS.htm |
| 19:08.04 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: here they say that they use RTCM SC-104, Version 2.3 for GSM and RTCM SC-104, Version 3.0 for NTRIP |
| 19:09.43 | SpeedEvil | 2.3/3 as I understand it is simply a data format |
| 19:10.09 | SpeedEvil | It also requires some way to insert it as a GSM message of some type. |
| 19:10.20 | schurig_home | yes, they use different data formats for the GSM transfer and for the GPRS/INTERNET/TCP/IP/NTRIP transfer |
| 19:10.25 | SpeedEvil | And a standard for that, and a GSM modem, which can recieve it. |
| 19:10.56 | SpeedEvil | And communicate that reception to software |
| 19:11.15 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: I don't think that a normal GSM modem can receive it, you need to access to the raw data frames |
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| 19:12.19 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: but then again, I can be utterly wrong :-) |
| 19:12.30 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. I'm not saying that it's not broadcast, or available in many places worldwide, at various delays and costs, just that one standard open ionospheric current weather model would be nice. |
| 19:13.26 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: I'm not sure, but I think this correction-factor devices, if realtime-operated, will also help if the US switches the jitter on again |
| 19:13.30 | SpeedEvil | Which could use a variety of sources to generate a best-guess current model. |
| 19:13.37 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: a raw isosphere mathematical model won't do that |
| 19:14.09 | SpeedEvil | No, you consult the model, and ask it 'send me the correction factors for the satellites I have in veiw' |
| 19:14.18 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: if you are a radio amateur or visit their websites, they have actually isotrophic forecasts there, not sure if you can use it |
| 19:14.33 | SpeedEvil | s/veiw/view/ |
| 19:15.05 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: hmm, but they cannot cope with sudden outburst of sun-wind |
| 19:15.17 | schurig_home | a reference station can |
| 19:15.33 | SpeedEvil | Realtime measurements of this sort could actually be used if the US stops updating the GPS satellites, and they go into drifting clock mode. |
| 19:16.05 | SpeedEvil | You'd admittedly need to do a little more work, and require an internet connection to get a position. |
| 19:16.51 | SpeedEvil | Somewhere I found a link on minimum specs for what happens if the errors are not corrected by the people running GPS. |
| 19:19.23 | SpeedEvil | The latest satelites even have a 'fallback to intersatelite positioning' mode |
| 19:20.00 | SpeedEvil | which if there are enough of that sort up can keep themselves into a moderately coherent set, with comparatively modest positioning degradations. |
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| 20:20.06 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Hammerhead_protocol]] [[Hammerhead_protocol]] |
| 20:26.06 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: in your contacts/02, I would lower the up/down buttons. Usually people like to have the important things in the middle of the screen, and if the name/number of an important contact is larger, the up/down buttons would be in the way |
| 20:26.36 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: for me it's not clear while at the top-left the telephone symbol is glowing. Is a call currently active? |
| 20:26.53 | Elrond | contacts/02? |
| 20:27.02 | schurig_home | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Contacts/02 |
| 20:27.27 | SpeedEvil | Not mine |
| 20:27.35 | SpeedEvil | I just did minor formatting |
| 20:28.08 | schurig_home | SpeedEvil: ah, sorry |
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| 20:30.34 | Elrond | Still looks a bit better. ;-) |
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| 20:37.58 | schurig_home | Elrond: chan 0, reg 0x01 seems to be a bit field, too |
| 20:42.21 | schurig_home | Elrond: funny, channel 1, reg 0x24 is a write register, but when you read it, you see FEED DAAD :-) |
| 20:49.42 | high-rez | counter |
| 20:49.43 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (65% for P1<=2007-07-07) 70% for *news* in 2 days 07:35:08 (2.316±2.3 days) (1552;235) |
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| 21:25.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2330 10/trunk/oe/packages/libxosd/files/use-sane-default-font.patch: * Refresh patch to todays libxosd svn changes. |
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| 21:49.32 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2331 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-clock/ (ChangeLog configure.ac data/Makefile.am): |
| 21:49.32 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-22 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 21:49.32 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 21:49.32 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: |
| 21:49.32 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Fix make distcheck. Patch from Rodolphe Ortalo. Closes #540 |
| 21:50.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2332 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/ (ChangeLog configure.ac data/Makefile.am): |
| 21:50.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-22 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 21:50.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 21:50.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: |
| 21:50.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Fix make distcheck. Patch from Rodolphe Ortalo. Closes #541 |
| 21:50.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2333 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (ChangeLog configure.ac data/Makefile.am src/Makefile.am): |
| 21:50.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-22 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 21:50.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 21:50.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * data/Makefile.am: |
| 21:50.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: |
| 21:50.57 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Fix make distcheck. Patch from Rodolphe Ortalo. Closes #542 |
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| 22:45.23 | CoreDump|home | hi |
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| 22:55.50 | miip | hi |
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| 23:50.06 | Elrond | Is there some opposite tool to fbgrab? To display a png on the framebuffer? So I can display a mockup on "my" neo to see, how it looks? |
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| 23:58.03 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 23:58.22 | DukeOfURL | hi |
| 23:59.08 | DukeOfURL | I've recovered my laptop after a harddrive crash on Wednesday :-( Is ther any Neo news? |
| 23:59.29 | Rince | nothing new |
| 23:59.35 | Rince | you haven't missed anything ;) |