| 00:00.39 | balrog-kun | sargas: are you using MokoMakefile now? |
| 00:01.18 | balrog-kun | never seen this error, looks like something got #defined to an empty value |
| 00:01.35 | sargas | its from compiling qemu using mokomakefile |
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| 00:06.39 | sargas | its weird, i can't find the equivilant file in the offical qemu sources |
| 00:08.10 | balrog-kun | op.h is generated by dyngen |
| 00:08.16 | sargas | o |
| 00:09.39 | balrog-kun | what is CC and HOST_CC set to in config-host.mak? |
| 00:11.22 | sargas | both are set to gcc |
| 00:11.40 | sargas | i recently downgraded from gcc4 to gcc34 to get this to work, so thats probably causing issues |
| 00:12.17 | balrog-kun | what does gcc -dumpversion say? |
| 00:12.38 | sargas | 3.4.6 |
| 00:12.43 | balrog-kun | you don't have to downgrade, you can have both gcc's on the system |
| 00:12.49 | balrog-kun | hmm, 3.4.6 should be okay |
| 00:13.08 | sargas | yea, i no, i got gentoo |
| 00:13.47 | sargas | could it cause a problem if ARCH in config-host.mak is set to i386 and my CHOST is i686? |
| 00:14.27 | balrog-kun | no, this is correct |
| 00:16.44 | ciacon | folks - I have yet another Q. I have just run throu the automake, pase the "make openmoko-devel-image", have run "make run-qemu" but the konsole tells me the following: |
| 00:16.46 | ciacon | Could not configure '/dev/rtc' to have a 1024 Hz timer. This is not a fatal |
| 00:16.47 | ciacon | error, but for better emulation accuracy either use a 2.6 host Linux kernel or |
| 00:16.47 | ciacon | type 'echo 1024 > /proc/sys/dev/rtc/max-user-freq' as root. |
| 00:16.47 | ciacon | qemu: could not open Flash image openmoko/openmoko-flash.image |
| 00:17.41 | ciacon | any hints how to proceed? |
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| 00:18.25 | sargas | ciacon: i'd do wat it says about the max-user-freq, then run file on openmoko/openmoko-flash.image (did u compile it as root and ur trying to run it as a user?) |
| 00:18.45 | sargas | (then again, i can't even get qemu to compile) |
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| 00:19.17 | balrog-kun | ciacon: MokoMakefile has some target that you need to run before "run-qemu" iirc |
| 00:19.24 | balrog-kun | ro make the actualy image |
| 00:20.25 | ciacon | sorry... I can't quite follow |
| 00:20.50 | ciacon | I compiled it as normal user |
| 00:21.32 | ciacon | I hope that's not a problem, as no error occured and it compiled (I hope) correctly |
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| 00:23.35 | sargas | ciacon: does that file they mention exist? |
| 00:24.01 | balrog-kun | i mean you missed some target |
| 00:24.04 | balrog-kun | lemme look it up |
| 00:24.17 | ciacon | nope -.- |
| 00:24.23 | ciacon | no file =( |
| 00:24.51 | balrog-kun | according to the wiki, the file is created during "make flash-qemu-local" |
| 00:24.55 | balrog-kun | did you flash it? |
| 00:26.01 | sargas | hey, can u have functions in an enum? |
| 00:26.08 | ciacon | males scense |
| 00:26.12 | ciacon | makes* |
| 00:26.37 | balrog-kun | sargas: functions in an enum? i don't thinks so |
| 00:26.56 | sargas | nvm, i'm misreading hte code |
| 00:27.26 | balrog-kun | :) |
| 00:27.36 | balrog-kun | i wouldn't mind if C allowed funky stuff like that |
| 00:27.43 | balrog-kun | like perl does |
| 00:27.50 | ciacon | sorry... was snoring... it's still working on "make flash-qemu-local" |
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| 00:28.34 | sargas | ever read higher order perl? |
| 00:29.43 | balrog-kun | i don't really know perl :p but i wish C could do some things that perl does |
| 00:31.42 | sargas | ah |
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| 01:29.07 | mickey|fic | morning |
| 01:29.55 | sargas | anyone know how to switch to gcc34 in debian after installing it? |
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| 03:02.20 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2305 10/trunk/oe/packages/python/ (5 files in 2 dirs): oe: add python-pygtk2, 2.6.3, for usage with gtk+ 2.6.x |
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| 03:54.06 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2306 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (10 files in 10 dirs): mark as sync'ed w/ org.openembedded.dev |
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| 04:17.51 | aloril | that double battery idea is much better to implement in software ( http://crave.cnet.co.uk/mobiles/0,39029453,49291004-5,00.htm ) |
| 04:18.52 | aloril | basically at certain level (configurable) you make it warn before user starts music player, takes images, browses web, etc.. battery draining stuff |
| 04:19.02 | aloril | (to save power for calls) |
| 04:24.54 | aloril | dual screen idea is interesting though, small b&w stripe could display various status information and be quite readable in sunlight (or alternatively something like OLPC uses) |
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| 05:41.02 | jouston | LaF0rge: Hello |
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| 06:13.57 | wehttamb_ | counter |
| 06:13.58 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, 2 days 02:53:01 (9.120±9.1 days) (1524;234) |
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| 07:03.37 | schurig | aloril: nice reading about the DUB :-) |
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| 07:04.27 | schurig | aloril: an OLPC-like screen would be nice, too. It's almost-B&W in bright sun, but readable. And color inside. And it doesn't use too much power. |
| 07:05.17 | aloril | between these 2 would be thumb keyboard, but .. I believe its possible to have fast touch screen input (and there is always bluetooth keyboard option) |
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| 07:15.06 | tr1 | moin |
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| 07:24.08 | aloril | was even affected by it for some minutes, then saw specs and that they were not that special (especially screen less resolution) |
| 07:24.56 | aloril | next I noticed "patented" stuff and thought, "oh no, they have patented all kinds of nifty inventions we were going to do (and already had talked about)" |
| 07:25.37 | aloril | final bubble bursting was of course "no 3rd party apps" -> not interested at all now |
| 07:26.47 | Tronic | But hey, you can develop with JavaScript! |
| 07:27.26 | Tronic | I wonder how Apple manages to do that. |
| 07:27.57 | Tronic | They omit features that everybody else has and then market that as a new feature. |
| 07:29.32 | CM | Tronic: I thought omitting features was Apples trademark ;) |
| 07:29.43 | CM | "We know better what you want than you do yourself" |
| 07:30.41 | aloril | zaurus was mentioned yesterday, but is that really phone? (I guess with suitable sleeve?) |
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| 07:35.05 | aloril | so I guess its fair to say that Neo1973 is first phone with firmware where its easy to add capability to compile programs for phone in phone itself |
| 07:35.26 | aloril | (and it might very well include python, so you can script in inside even in default firmware) |
| 07:36.34 | aloril | number_of_users(something being factory installed) > number_of_users(user install new different unsupported firmware) (example of later is HTC devices) |
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| 07:37.35 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 07:38.44 | aloril | another first I think is that you can ssh into Neo1973 in default image |
| 07:39.01 | aloril | or can you ssh into greenphone? |
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| 07:41.11 | ljp | greenphone has ssh and telnet |
| 07:42.04 | ynezz | counter |
| 07:42.04 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, 2 days 02:08:58 (9.090±9.1 days) (1525;234) |
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| 07:42.14 | Mandarino | hello |
| 07:42.16 | Mandarino | counter |
| 07:42.17 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, 2 days 02:08:51 (9.089±9.1 days) (1526;234) |
| 07:42.35 | Mandarino | somebody alive? |
| 07:42.53 | aloril | an the other hand, greenphone is not really consumer phone, its development platform |
| 07:43.15 | aloril | hmm.. I guess you could install gcc too into greenphone too? |
| 07:43.33 | ljp | if you are insane |
| 07:43.34 | aloril | ljp: it has sshd too and not only ssh? |
| 07:43.46 | ljp | sshd, rather |
| 07:43.56 | ljp | scp |
| 07:44.26 | Mandarino | How can I contacto to Sean :? |
| 07:45.04 | ljp | memory is the real issue with gcc |
| 07:45.21 | aloril | ljp: 128MB should be enough for a lot of stuff |
| 07:45.57 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:46.46 | amarsh04 | at least I didn't have to compile Firefox and Openoffice.org (-: |
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| 07:48.20 | aloril | yeah, gcc, firefox, oo, kernel, etc.. compilations are better to do on desktop and just transmit results |
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| 07:54.08 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2307 10/trunk/oe/packages/flite/ (8 files in 2 dirs): oe: add flite speech synthesizer |
| 07:55.45 | aloril | then gcc would be handy, though transmitting source and binary over GPRS should take more than few seconds either for that |
| 07:56.11 | aloril | but compiling locally should take long either and I don't think you want to run it remotely and transmit screens ;-) |
| 07:58.38 | ynezz | i wonder how long the battery will last... |
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| 08:25.24 | schurig | ljp: sshd? Or dropbear? :-) |
| 08:26.16 | schurig | aloril: use rapid-prototyping languages to test ideas, e.g. python or boo |
| 08:26.56 | schurig | aloril: and compiling locally create lot's of CPU un-idle-ness, which drains your battery |
| 08:27.02 | aloril | schurig: sometimes those are just too slow, C is 100-1000x faster for some stuff |
| 08:27.26 | aloril | schurig: compiling is minor compared to runtime ;-) |
| 08:28.39 | schurig | aloril: hehe, maybe. Create gcc with OE, put it into the QEmu and observe how fast/slow it is |
| 08:29.13 | schurig | aloril: at home I still have an ancient PC, AMD 1 GHz. QEMU is so slow there emulating the Neo that it makes no fun at all |
| 08:29.40 | aloril | with 1/10 memory too ;-) |
| 08:29.46 | schurig | aloril: I think so. GCC development started when even some Workstations where slower :-) |
| 08:29.55 | schurig | aloril: GCC 1.x :-) |
| 08:30.36 | schurig | aloril: anyway, from the QEMU image I saw that neo doesn't right now try to save boot time |
| 08:30.59 | aloril | hmm.. yeah 2.X something probably at the time |
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| 08:34.41 | baird | I have gcc-2.7.2.2 compiling kernels on an old 386 laptop w/ only 2MB of RAM... |
| 08:35.17 | baird | "Just stay away from C++" :) |
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| 08:45.25 | [psy] | lol baird |
| 08:45.39 | [psy] | you manage to get a full kernel compile? |
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| 08:50.24 | baird | Yup-- although for a custom 2.0.39 kernel, and it took about 7 times longer than normal (~14 hours) because of swapping. "But Linux didn't crash." |
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| 08:53.34 | baird | The 386 laptop was an old Compaq that I was using for 'my Linux fix' when I was marooned in the Australian Outback for a month with my then-girlfriend's parents.. -_- .. Emacs18, Gcc-2.7.2.2, and I was writing and compiling code. :) |
| 09:00.10 | schurig | baird: recently I started to use gcc-4.2 with Qt 4.x and precompiler headers. It was almost as fast as gcc. WOOOT! :-) |
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| 09:21.56 | buz | schurig: that's because gcc got a lot slower over time ;) |
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| 10:12.59 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 10:21.38 | nox-Hand | counter |
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| 10:21.38 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, 2 days 00:49:11 (9.034±9.0 days) (1527;234) |
| 10:24.43 | Kero | where did that extra week (in the counter) come from... |
| 10:25.21 | Agui | The Gta01b v4 powered off several seconds later automaticly if I do input anything, can somebody tell me how to disable it? It' s a trouble when i transfer file to u-boot |
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| 10:34.10 | aloril | can you see what kind of amperage you get from USB inside Neo1973? |
| 10:34.41 | aloril | if yes, then could use Neo1973 to measure actual AA battery capacity by seeing when amperage drops |
| 10:34.54 | aloril | (using something like http://www.ladyada.net/make/mintyboost/ ) |
| 10:35.34 | buz | Kero: the usual increment ;) |
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| 10:36.36 | aloril | Kero: see page, I just combined 2 counters (probability for short term counter was too low) |
| 10:36.37 | SpeedEvil | The USB supplies no power. |
| 10:36.44 | SpeedEvil | What do you mean aloril? |
| 10:37.15 | aloril | SpeedEvil: charge Neo1973 from external source, notice when external source can't anymore supply much amperage |
| 10:37.45 | SpeedEvil | Umm - You can't really do that meaningfully. |
| 10:37.56 | SpeedEvil | The input voltage is supposed to be a regulated 5V |
| 10:38.04 | SpeedEvil | So it either charges or not |
| 10:38.40 | aloril | yes, but amperage can be 100mAh or 500mAh: so what happens when battery runs low? |
| 10:39.03 | SpeedEvil | Why would you want to? |
| 10:39.18 | SpeedEvil | Measure the capacity that is. |
| 10:40.20 | SpeedEvil | Also - as far as I'm aware, there is no way to measure the input current on the USB |
| 10:40.25 | SpeedEvil | You'd have to guess. |
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| 10:41.24 | aloril | OK, so what happens if you try to draw 500mAh and it won't supply it (battery low for example)? |
| 10:41.48 | SpeedEvil | It'll stop charging. |
| 10:42.34 | aloril | OK, so simply read "charging" flag in Neo1973 and see how long its in effect -> calculate rough battery capacity from that |
| 10:42.50 | SpeedEvil | It's probably easier for the user just to input it. |
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| 10:43.18 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I'm not seeing what you're trying to do. |
| 10:43.55 | aloril | just want to see for individual batteries when to throw them away ;-) |
| 10:44.15 | SpeedEvil | Then it's useless - as you can only measure several cells at once. |
| 10:44.39 | SpeedEvil | Unless you're doing the step-up one cell to 5V thing. |
| 10:45.00 | SpeedEvil | Tehre are nice battery chargers that give capacity readouts. |
| 10:45.04 | aloril | earlier: s:mAh:mA: |
| 10:45.28 | aloril | yes, but following things are not useful: |
| 10:45.52 | aloril | drain at 100mA: won't tell how useful battery is at 500mA load |
| 10:46.19 | aloril | charge first and then drain: battery is warm, won't tell how useful battery is at 500mA load starting from cold battery |
| 10:46.26 | SpeedEvil | google impedance spectrometry |
| 10:50.13 | aloril | "Is this battery useful for charging Neo1973 using something like MintyBoost?" answer can be answered probably by using extra dummy battery and see how long it actually charges Neo1973 .. |
| 10:50.48 | SpeedEvil | In practice. AA cells will usually supply 500mA or 100mA perfectly well - the degradation that happens at higher charge rates only occurs at higher discharge rates. |
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| 10:51.53 | SpeedEvil | If the cell won't support 500mA discharge rates, then it's toast - 500mA is a very slow discharge. |
| 10:52.37 | aloril | probably, but it can still support 100mA discharge rate for total of 1500mAh for example |
| 10:52.44 | SpeedEvil | Um, no. |
| 10:52.58 | SpeedEvil | AA batteries don't degrade that way. |
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| 10:53.10 | aloril | hmm.. maybe battery tester I used is deficient in some way then |
| 10:53.25 | SpeedEvil | It may be that if you change the numbers to be 5A and 1A, you may get the effect you suppose. |
| 10:53.58 | aloril | maybe reason is that voltage drops more with 500mA and it declares it empty while its not really yet empty |
| 10:54.13 | SpeedEvil | But with a charged battery, it can support either, unless it's actively useless. |
| 10:54.28 | SpeedEvil | Is it an alkaline battery tester? |
| 10:54.38 | SpeedEvil | And was the cell fully charged? |
| 10:54.50 | SpeedEvil | I'm talking of NiMH cells here. |
| 10:55.01 | aloril | its MiNH charger/tester and yes it was charged with it first |
| 10:55.17 | aloril | and testing == drain it until below certain voltage |
| 10:55.37 | aloril | ie.. testing at 100mA can take 15h |
| 10:55.45 | SpeedEvil | A usable cell will not have a significant voltage drop at 500mA. |
| 10:56.10 | SpeedEvil | hang on - I'll get some graphs |
| 10:56.26 | aloril | maybe tester is deficient some way, but I have seen this often with older batteries: |
| 10:56.42 | aloril | charge it first, let it sit for some hours or days |
| 10:56.50 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - it's just that if it won't support 500mA discharge rate, it's on its last legs. |
| 10:57.00 | aloril | draining it at 100mA it tests it for > 10h |
| 10:57.24 | aloril | but if I select 500mA drain, voltage drops fast it it stops test in few seconds or minutes |
| 10:58.10 | SpeedEvil | That is one indication of a fairly dead cell - it should easily support drains of 'C' - the capacity in one hour. |
| 10:58.15 | aloril | (cutoff voltage seems to be something like 0.9V) |
| 10:58.50 | aloril | yeah, but 100mA * 10h is still 1000mAh ;-) |
| 11:00.43 | SpeedEvil | http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=114943&highlight=eneloop+discharge may be of interest. |
| 11:01.05 | SpeedEvil | 1000mAh is a _Very_ low capacity for a modernish cell, indicating large capacity loss from new. |
| 11:02.38 | aloril | original for those was 2000mAh or more |
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| 11:04.53 | SpeedEvil | http://www.candlepowerforums.com/vb/showthread.php?t=79302&highlight=eneloop+discharge - may be of interest too |
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| 11:11.31 | gamin | now that http://webshop.openmoko.com is open and ordering is possible, would somebody change the topic, please? |
| 11:12.59 | Sup3rkiddo | gamin, hmm..it doesnt open up. |
| 11:13.12 | zecke | mickey|fic: hi |
| 11:13.15 | SpeedEvil | Not here. |
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| 11:13.26 | mickey|fic | hey zecke |
| 11:13.49 | zecke | mickey|fic: I had some spare time and read about python 3000 |
| 11:13.52 | gamin | Sup3rkiddo: was just wishful thinking... :p |
| 11:15.02 | aloril | SpeedEvil: interesting, so it seems there is about 250kWh / battery before its time to throw it away |
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| 11:18.19 | SpeedEvil | Umm - no. |
| 11:18.23 | SpeedEvil | At least not for AA cells. |
| 11:18.48 | SpeedEvil | That'd be some 100K charges |
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| 11:19.07 | SpeedEvil | It's more like - at best - 3000Wh or maybe a little better. |
| 11:19.22 | Sup3rkiddo | guys, should i do a build from scratch or is the problem known http://pastebin.ca/578714 |
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| 11:22.48 | aloril | SpeedEvil: of course, why did I add that k ;-) |
| 11:24.01 | SpeedEvil | 250Wh is only really if you need a battery within a few percent of its maximum. Most quality cells are performing quite usably at 100 cycles. |
| 11:24.31 | SpeedEvil | Unless you are really abusing them - and charging/discharging extremely fast, or storing them at high temp. |
| 11:25.47 | aloril | anyway, seems like 30 cents / day to use Neo1973 reasonably heavily without wall socket |
| 11:27.17 | aloril | 250e3/(0.2*5*3600) -> 70h / each AA battery (not counting voltage conversion losses, but I guess additional cycles could cover it) |
| 11:28.14 | Tv | webshop.openmoko.com doesn't resolve for me.. |
| 11:29.06 | aloril | Tv: I think he was just joking |
| 11:29.52 | Tv | joke about a topic like that |
| 11:30.00 | Tv | he should expect to be trampled by the masses ;) |
| 11:30.27 | Tv | my nokia6600 heard rumors and is failing a lot more often these days |
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| 11:30.36 | guaqua | Tv: same here :/ |
| 11:31.09 | aloril | SpeedEvil: that page also has hill in first diagram at cycle 150: I guess this is "must be warm/hot or use slow discharge" |
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| 11:35.36 | SpeedEvil | It's not a steep dropoff in capacity with cycles - but generally slow |
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| 12:24.22 | LoDown | how would i make a suggestion for a UI change? |
| 12:24.58 | Elrond | a) Tey the community ml |
| 12:25.03 | Elrond | b) Try some more appropiate ML |
| 12:25.40 | Elrond | c) If you think, it's really 200% important NOW, then file a bug. |
| 12:26.26 | Elrond | b) The "framework-devel" ML might be more appropiate. |
| 12:27.03 | Elrond | If you want more general discussion on it, to make sure, that there is some need for it, etc. choose (a). |
| 12:27.44 | zecke | LoDown: implement it, write a paper why it is a better approach and attach the paper+patch to the bug tracker |
| 12:28.16 | LoDown | zecke: don't know if I'm all that good ::grin:: |
| 12:28.18 | Elrond | hehe... the killer-statement "send patch" ;o) |
| 12:28.33 | LoDown | most definitely |
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| 12:29.02 | Elrond | One project pissed me completely away with that statement. They couldn't say anything else. |
| 12:33.02 | SpeedEvil | Even just a mockup, in animated GIF, flash, or interpretive dance can be worthwhile. |
| 12:33.42 | Tv | interpretive dance given deeper meaning by wild gesticulation over a whiteboard with mystic runes |
| 12:33.47 | Tv | that's my favorite |
| 12:34.25 | rwhitby | Youtube demo of the new UI in operation is a must, of course. |
| 12:34.26 | SpeedEvil | The altar of the god P'wah Poiintus. |
| 12:34.44 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A093B4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:35.21 | Elrond | *G* |
| 12:36.25 | SpeedEvil | It's not that bad to fake up an interface in javascript + browser or something though. |
| 12:40.01 | kiney | counter |
| 12:40.01 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 23:39:59 (8.986±9.0 days) (1528;234) |
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| 13:12.09 | pH5 | Elrond: stupid readline console for hh in c: http://www.pastebin.no/2130 |
| 13:19.58 | Lorphos | so, how good is the GPS in real life testing? |
| 13:20.18 | Lorphos | have you compared it to other receivers? |
| 13:22.45 | guaqua | neo's gps isn't working yet |
| 13:24.10 | *** join/#openmoko raster (n=raster@p2141-ipbf2304marunouchi.tokyo.ocn.ne.jp) |
| 13:26.30 | mjr | people have gotten locations out of it using the binary provided, though? |
| 13:26.48 | pH5 | guaqua: that's not entirely true. the p1 devices were delivered with a diagnostic program of some sort that ... |
| 13:26.54 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 13:26.55 | pH5 | mjr: right, what you said. |
| 13:29.11 | koen | pH5: where are the OE recipes to build ipks(TM) for sphydra? |
| 13:29.12 | koen | ;) |
| 13:30.46 | guaqua | pH5: oh...didn't realize that |
| 13:34.14 | juco | the gps is lacking a driver? |
| 13:35.34 | koen | no, it's lacking an open source protocol parser |
| 13:35.53 | Placid | is the implementation of such a parser a big task, koen? |
| 13:36.13 | koen | ask the http://projects.linuxtogo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=sphyrna guys :) |
| 13:36.59 | juco | oh, that makes more sense |
| 13:37.00 | *** join/#openmoko roh (n=roh@yamato.hyte.de) |
| 13:37.19 | juco | I thought that the gps available over rs232 |
| 13:37.37 | *** join/#openmoko Richard_ (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 13:37.54 | koen | juco: it is |
| 13:38.34 | juco | but the manufacturer hasn't or won't provide the protocol spec? |
| 13:38.37 | Tv | but it's not just NMEA |
| 13:39.59 | guaqua | what is the exact problem with the binary module? or have they not provided one? |
| 13:40.40 | Placid | it's proprietory |
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| 13:41.05 | guaqua | i know that... |
| 13:41.07 | juco | koen, do you know if someone is in the process of reversing the protocol using the binary? |
| 13:41.17 | guaqua | juco: yes there is someone doing it |
| 13:41.21 | koen | scroll up 5 minutes |
| 13:41.33 | Placid | <koen> ask the http://projects.linuxtogo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=sphyrna guys :) |
| 13:41.39 | Placid | :D |
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| 13:43.04 | juco | http://projects.linuxtogo.org/projects/sphyrna/ |
| 13:43.42 | Richard_ | Does openmoko consider to use pulseaudio to control audio status? |
| 13:44.08 | mickey|fic | yes, we are toying around with it atm. |
| 13:44.55 | raster | pulse audio looks decent |
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| 13:47.34 | mickey|fic | i agree |
| 13:49.49 | raster | cwabs! |
| 13:49.53 | raster | i likes me kwabs |
| 13:50.45 | koen | crabs like your camera as well |
| 13:51.56 | Placid | heh, "cwabs" |
| 13:56.04 | raster | me gots ma kwabz |
| 13:58.14 | Sup3rkiddo | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:58.55 | mickey|fic | yes, these libraries are on our radar... |
| 13:59.12 | Sup3rkiddo | kewl |
| 14:00.12 | koen | mickey|fic: does expedite work for you? |
| 14:00.27 | koen | mickey|fic: for sirfred and me it just draws wrongly coloured pixels |
| 14:01.30 | mickey|fic | koen: i had it working on the Neo a couple of days ago |
| 14:02.34 | *** join/#openmoko yerga (n=yerga@87.223.204.134) |
| 14:03.51 | raster | koen: which engine? |
| 14:04.00 | koen | x11 |
| 14:07.52 | gamin | what library is the email part of the messages application based on? |
| 14:08.31 | gamin | the stuff that is in svn is only about sms.. |
| 14:08.34 | mickey|fic | i'm afraid there is no functionality behind email yet, however it's supposed to use libcamel -- in either of the two incarnations |
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| 14:08.57 | raster | koen: interesting/ that should work. |
| 14:08.57 | gamin | is o-hand working on that? |
| 14:09.58 | koen | raster: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/expedite.png |
| 14:10.54 | koen | tapping on the screen leads to weirdly coloured pixels |
| 14:11.29 | zecke | koen: using eabi? |
| 14:11.50 | koen | zecke: what else? |
| 14:11.59 | raster | koen: hmm - thats probably because it can't find its data? |
| 14:12.06 | koen | raster: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/expedite2.png <- weird pixels |
| 14:12.11 | raster | it needs to find its images - u need to "make install"? |
| 14:12.22 | raster | almost certainly not able to load images |
| 14:12.25 | raster | so either |
| 14:12.29 | koen | I did 'ipkg install expedite' |
| 14:12.31 | raster | png loader moduel is not compiled |
| 14:12.35 | raster | or not installed |
| 14:12.43 | raster | or the expetdite install is missing image data |
| 14:12.47 | raster | or its in the wrong place |
| 14:12.48 | raster | or both |
| 14:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko phed (n=phed@obg2.rits.idcomnet.no) |
| 14:12.59 | koen | root@hx4700:/usr/share/expedite/data# ls -la |
| 14:13.00 | koen | drwxr-xr-x 2 root root 0 Jun 16 14:59 . |
| 14:13.00 | koen | drwxr-xr-x 3 root root 0 Jun 19 18:45 .. |
| 14:13.01 | koen | root@hx4700:/usr/share/expedite/data# |
| 14:13.14 | raster | nada |
| 14:13.18 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A57481.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:13.44 | raster | i didnt put error checking into the image loads |
| 14:13.47 | raster | didnt see the point :) |
| 14:13.57 | raster | evas can do it |
| 14:13.59 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Voice_Mailbox]] [[Image_talk:GTK-OM-widgets.jpg]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 14:14.04 | raster | you just need to check the laod error status |
| 14:14.22 | raster | really expedite's data goes with expedite |
| 14:14.25 | raster | it relies on it |
| 14:14.28 | *** part/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:14.31 | raster | in fact as a benchmark tool |
| 14:14.40 | raster | its essential the data is identical in all installs |
| 14:14.47 | raster | also for correctness checks |
| 14:15.08 | koen | raster: I compiled evas for avr32 and hoping to test it tomorrow |
| 14:15.20 | raster | :) |
| 14:15.21 | raster | nb |
| 14:15.27 | raster | disabling dithering will look uglier in 16bpp |
| 14:15.29 | raster | but be faster |
| 14:15.40 | raster | also there is a small dither mask option which is faster than the large ones |
| 14:15.41 | raster | still nice |
| 14:15.46 | raster | but not quite as smooth |
| 14:15.51 | raster | but still good |
| 14:16.00 | raster | k-s[WORK] added the no dither option |
| 14:16.33 | raster | the software-16 engine k-s[WORK] has been working on is a "yet even faster just for 16bpp display on a LOCAL xserver" engine that sacrifices some display quality for speed |
| 14:17.23 | k-s[WORK] | raster: I want to add dither on image load |
| 14:17.39 | k-s[WORK] | (add it BACK, but at image load instead of blit) |
| 14:17.55 | koen | raster: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/~koen/expedite3.png |
| 14:18.14 | k-s[WORK] | koen: cool! |
| 14:18.24 | mickey|fic | that looks better |
| 14:18.28 | k-s[WORK] | koen: yestereday night I've submitted font_draw support for software_16 |
| 14:18.33 | k-s[WORK] | koen: please test :-) |
| 14:19.11 | raster | k-s[WORK]: yeah. i want to too - but that can wait |
| 14:19.12 | Lorphos | regarding the gps - does it work with the proprietary driver yet? |
| 14:19.26 | raster | k-s[WORK]: workies! |
| 14:19.32 | raster | problem is its too wide for the 640x480 |
| 14:19.44 | raster | i need to make expedite handle a range of resolutions better |
| 14:19.53 | k-s[WORK] | raster: yes :-P |
| 14:20.07 | raster | expedite is a work in progress as far as a benchmark squite goes |
| 14:20.12 | k-s[WORK] | raster: maybe improve cmdline parsing to get a WxH |
| 14:20.15 | raster | but its not a bad start as you can isolate tests |
| 14:20.34 | raster | k-s[WORK]: no. i want to have a universal way of benchamrkign evas across all ranges of devices and resolutions |
| 14:20.43 | raster | i probably need to have multiple benchmarks |
| 14:20.44 | raster | like |
| 14:20.47 | raster | QVGA |
| 14:20.49 | raster | VGA |
| 14:20.55 | raster | WVGA |
| 14:20.57 | raster | etc. |
| 14:21.11 | koen | portrait qvga, portrait vga, etc |
| 14:21.11 | raster | and expedite just takes an option as to which one u are doing |
| 14:21.15 | raster | yup |
| 14:21.36 | raster | so a device with a high res screen (eg n800) can run ALL benchmarks |
| 14:21.40 | raster | form QVGa up |
| 14:21.47 | koen | EVAS: error: viewport size != output size! |
| 14:21.53 | raster | a QVGA ipaq 3660 can only run the WVGa benchmark |
| 14:22.04 | raster | but the idea is that there will always be some common benchmark between all devices |
| 14:22.16 | raster | koen: yeah. it doesnt like that matchmox resized the window |
| 14:22.22 | raster | matcbox |
| 14:22.31 | raster | expedite does set min size to bigger than your vga |
| 14:22.34 | k-s[WORK] | raster: we could have Evas to test different engines and provide summary at the end |
| 14:22.37 | k-s[WORK] | :-) |
| 14:22.50 | koen | something like cairo-perf would be neat to spot regressions |
| 14:23.03 | raster | k-s[WORK]: you want expedite to be able to run the test on several engines in one go? |
| 14:23.10 | raster | (instead of runing it multiple times)? |
| 14:23.23 | raster | koen: expedite is meantt to be that |
| 14:23.37 | raster | koen: for now i'm just adding tests - but eventually every time someone spots an issue i will add a test to expedite |
| 14:23.51 | k-s[WORK] | raster: yes, also spoting winners and doing gains from one to other |
| 14:24.29 | raster | i actually was wanting to add a full stat gathering AND display part of expedite |
| 14:24.30 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 14:24.35 | raster | every time u run something it saves the result to a file |
| 14:24.43 | raster | and it has a menu option to "display stats" |
| 14:24.49 | raster | and it will draw the perf graphs for you |
| 14:24.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2308 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: |
| 14:24.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * actually transition to the new state, if state change was successful |
| 14:24.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * fix parsing of state name if presented from userspace via sysfs |
| 14:24.52 | raster | over time |
| 14:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@194.65.5.235) |
| 14:27.59 | koen | 10.37 , EVAS SPEED |
| 14:28.19 | koen | 624MHz ARMv5te |
| 14:28.33 | raster | wow |
| 14:28.37 | raster | thats one fast arm |
| 14:28.57 | koen | no, it's an intel one |
| 14:29.06 | koen | OMG MHZ!!!!!!! |
| 14:29.10 | raster | hahahahhaa |
| 14:29.15 | raster | 31337 MHZ |
| 14:29.32 | koen | it feels fast because it has a 200MHz memory bus |
| 14:29.32 | raster | let me rebuild efl for the n800 with the new software-16 engine |
| 14:29.38 | raster | aaah |
| 14:29.42 | raster | fast mem bus is good |
| 14:29.46 | raster | slow mem busses SUCK |
| 14:30.05 | raster | everyone always goes OMFGZ!!! 2387902mhz! |
| 14:30.11 | raster | but they forget the memory bus still runs at 2mhz |
| 14:30.36 | raster | dual core cpu's are a little bit of a disappointment on the x86 side |
| 14:30.39 | koen | that's why the older ipaqs have such fast graphics: decent bus to the framebuffer |
| 14:30.40 | raster | they still have 1 fsb to share |
| 14:30.57 | raster | and if you do rendering wi9th 2 threads (ie play simd games - but with the cpu) |
| 14:31.02 | raster | you dont get a 2x speedup |
| 14:31.11 | raster | for plain alpha blending on x86 its 0% faster |
| 14:31.19 | k-s[WORK] | koen: are you testing with x11? |
| 14:31.20 | raster | so the code is ltierally blending at fsb speed |
| 14:31.46 | koen | k-s[WORK]: yes |
| 14:32.01 | koen | the x11-16 engine wasn't enabled |
| 14:32.04 | k-s[WORK] | ok, please send me the comparison with x11-16 |
| 14:32.17 | k-s[WORK] | yes, you need to compile evas with it (explicit) |
| 14:32.22 | k-s[WORK] | then recomplie expedite |
| 14:32.23 | *** join/#openmoko ewon (n=ewan@skynet.skynet.ie) |
| 14:33.29 | ewon | anyone tried writing anything in pygtk on the openmoko? |
| 14:33.37 | ewon | s/writing/running/ |
| 14:34.34 | raster | i do have to say |
| 14:34.39 | raster | i've fallen in love with scratchbox |
| 14:34.45 | raster | man is it ever convenient |
| 14:35.29 | k-s[WORK] | raster: sb2 will be even better |
| 14:35.53 | koen | scarebox |
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| 14:39.05 | raster | k-s[WORK]: in what way? |
| 14:39.38 | k-s[WORK] | raster: today it's a mess of scripts and environment variables, they're cleaning much stuff |
| 14:39.55 | raster | crap |
| 14:39.59 | raster | edje_cc barfed again |
| 14:41.29 | k-s[WORK] | ? |
| 14:42.38 | raster | it WAs working |
| 14:42.54 | raster | oooh |
| 14:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 14:44.03 | raster | hi res pda profile is borned for the theme |
| 14:44.05 | raster | maybe |
| 14:44.12 | raster | hmm |
| 14:44.13 | raster | no |
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| 15:45.22 | raster | koen: ok- got it going |
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| 15:45.31 | raster | teethnig issues with qemu + gcc + cflags |
| 15:45.45 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p5481C471.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:46.04 | raster | for x11-16 |
| 15:50.06 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope_ (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:53.45 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=matrix@220.224.22.5) |
| 15:53.59 | empty_mind | counter |
| 15:54.00 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 22:03:00 (8.919±8.9 days) (1529;234) |
| 15:54.44 | koen | hmmm, expedite segfaults after a few tests with x11-16 |
| 15:54.50 | koen | 13.74 , Image Quality Scale |
| 15:54.51 | koen | EVAS: error: viewport size != output size! |
| 15:54.51 | koen | Segmentation fault |
| 15:54.55 | raster | koen: not surprising |
| 15:55.00 | raster | x11-16 is nowhere near complete or stable yet |
| 15:55.21 | raster | the outbuf handling is probably wrong with the shm buffer for that |
| 15:56.09 | raster | oh bollocks |
| 15:56.12 | raster | i didnt test xrender |
| 15:56.16 | raster | will do soon |
| 15:56.17 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 15:56.25 | raster | just testign the rendering teests that software-x11 handles so far |
| 15:57.28 | raster | just getting stats |
| 15:58.13 | empty_mind | hey raster |
| 15:58.19 | raster | empty_mind: yo |
| 16:01.43 | raster | almost |
| 16:01.44 | raster | 2 tests left |
| 16:01.53 | raster | 1 |
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| 16:05.46 | ewon | is anyone aware if the moko is quick enough to run pygtk apps? |
| 16:06.01 | ewon | nothing too fancy |
| 16:07.29 | pH5 | Elrond: |
| 16:07.51 | raster | heheheh |
| 16:07.54 | raster | even with blitting |
| 16:08.02 | raster | xrender is slow |
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| 16:12.59 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Minime/sketch]] |
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| 16:15.30 | empty_mind | ewon: i had been able to run python. but yet to run pygtk apps |
| 16:15.34 | raster | koen: ok- xrender is going to be too slow to be useful |
| 16:18.01 | *** part/#openmoko mma (n=Mcken@65.223.184.242) |
| 16:20.03 | pH5 | Elrond: the 0xff packets seem really just to be some register/memory/whatever read command |
| 16:20.54 | pH5 | Elrond: try sending a "ff 04 fd c0 00 fc" packet and then increase the 5th ('CMD') byte and look what happens. try with different lengths. |
| 16:21.19 | ewon | empty_mind: thanks |
| 16:23.10 | raster | these lasts test are going to kill |
| 16:25.17 | pH5 | Elrond: at least the 'flags' are set to 4 or c |
| 16:26.14 | pH5 | s/the/when the/ |
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| 16:30.59 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> rough seas |
| 16:31.58 | Elrond | pH5 - Huh, strange. |
| 16:33.53 | pH5 | Elrond: we should be able to make a complete register/memory/whatever dump after each SEND command and see if we can find corresponding changes. |
| 16:34.17 | raster | koen: http://www.rasterman.com/files/n800-engines.pdf |
| 16:34.20 | pH5 | Elrond: any idea what the max value for the length byte is? |
| 16:35.24 | raster | koen: xrender's last 3 tests i got bored of waiting to finish |
| 16:35.29 | raster | so slow |
| 16:36.30 | raster | so the x11-16 engine definitely is showign speedups - in its preliminary state |
| 16:36.48 | pH5 | Elrond: 0x7d |
| 16:36.55 | raster | from marginal (112% of base framerate) |
| 16:37.01 | raster | so 265% |
| 16:37.11 | pH5 | most of those words returned seem to be either 00000000 or 100971f2 though |
| 16:37.14 | raster | k-s[WORK]: http://www.rasterman.com/files/n800-engines.pdf |
| 16:38.16 | DukeOfURL | does anyone know how much PCB real estate an RFID receiver would occupy? |
| 16:39.06 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: Almost a meaningless question. |
| 16:39.16 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: There are _so_ many standards. |
| 16:39.35 | DukeOfURL | is there a receiver on a chip? |
| 16:39.37 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: it's generally the transmitter coil that uses up a reasonable amount of volume. |
| 16:39.57 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: I've not seen multi-standard chips. |
| 16:40.53 | DukeOfURL | single standard chip? how much volume? |
| 16:40.56 | buz | seans mails get more and more useless |
| 16:41.11 | SpeedEvil | They are IIRC quite small. The problem is that the transmitter coil is large. |
| 16:41.12 | hrw | buz: he has less and less time to write them |
| 16:41.51 | buz | obviously, he doesn't scale |
| 16:41.53 | buz | SCNR |
| 16:41.53 | SpeedEvil | In general, the coil can pick up ID chips from 2 diameters away or so, centred on the coil, max. |
| 16:42.16 | pH5 | Elrond: we have 64 words here. after that it repeats itself |
| 16:42.42 | pH5 | and only 20 of those contain something that looks like useful data |
| 16:43.20 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 16:43.37 | summatusmentis | does the neo1973(when released to consumers) have a dock? |
| 16:43.49 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: No |
| 16:44.01 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: and the only possible dock connector won't work for it. |
| 16:44.17 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: so a dock is basically not possible, you're going to have to plug it in every time. |
| 16:44.47 | summatusmentis | just the shape of it? or dock connector proprietary-ness? |
| 16:44.47 | buz | i wonder if you could do a stupid dock with an usb plug |
| 16:44.53 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:45.05 | SpeedEvil | The tollerances you need to safely mate are too small. |
| 16:45.23 | summatusmentis | mass market in 6months?!? what happened to sept.? |
| 16:45.25 | SpeedEvil | The difference between sliding in cleanly, and buggering the connector is small. |
| 16:45.29 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: that's why the antennas at the retail stores are so large... |
| 16:45.37 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: September has been delayed. |
| 16:45.49 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: no kidding :-P why? |
| 16:45.57 | summatusmentis | software? |
| 16:46.03 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: too little time to do the software presumably. |
| 16:46.10 | buz | i somehow dont see how you can go week after week telling we will soon release info |
| 16:46.15 | SpeedEvil | Initially - it was going to be Jan-Sep to do the software. |
| 16:46.15 | buz | usually only politicians do that |
| 16:46.27 | SpeedEvil | Jul-Sep is silly |
| 16:46.33 | summatusmentis | mmm, bummer, I was sort of hpiong it'd be ready in sept. |
| 16:46.46 | SpeedEvil | Unless they actually pay lots of people, they are not going to get working stuff by Sep. |
| 16:47.00 | summatusmentis | hoping* I need a new contract/phone, and this would be ideal |
| 16:47.17 | SpeedEvil | There will be a working phone with wifi, and improving apps, come Sep. |
| 16:47.31 | SpeedEvil | It will probably not be end-user-polished. |
| 16:47.36 | buz | i believe that GTA02 will ship in sept when i hold one in my hands |
| 16:47.41 | summatusmentis | but functional at least |
| 16:47.56 | SpeedEvil | I was assuming P1+ |
| 16:48.04 | buz | GTA02 is p1+ |
| 16:48.19 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 16:48.33 | buz | unless there's another device i havent yet heard of |
| 16:48.56 | summatusmentis | P1+ will have most functionality(txt, mms, phone, gps, wifi) all available? just not... pretty-fied? |
| 16:49.08 | summatusmentis | and mobile web |
| 16:49.10 | buz | as for mms probably no |
| 16:49.21 | buz | web only if someone ports a browser |
| 16:49.27 | buz | (yes in this case it DOES mean porting) |
| 16:49.40 | SpeedEvil | I'm going to see how much I can slim down FF trivially. |
| 16:49.53 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-b65d98ffdccd4ee6) |
| 16:49.57 | pH5 | Elrond: yes, at least for FL=4 the fe packets just write to the registers/memory and the ff packet triggers a read back from that region |
| 16:50.15 | pH5 | and what we thought was the packet type / CMD is really the register offset |
| 16:51.29 | summatusmentis | buz: completely different arch? |
| 16:51.49 | buz | no different environment |
| 16:51.50 | summatusmentis | hence the porting issue |
| 16:51.57 | raster | snoozsors |
| 16:52.01 | summatusmentis | what do you mean? |
| 16:52.03 | buz | you cant just stick FF on openmoko |
| 16:52.07 | buz | you need to slim it |
| 16:52.09 | buz | way down |
| 16:52.14 | summatusmentis | minimo? |
| 16:52.15 | buz | and stick a new ui on it |
| 16:52.28 | buz | minimo currently only works on windows mobile, |
| 16:52.31 | buz | and barely o |
| 16:52.36 | woglinde | *g* |
| 16:52.50 | roh | buz do not bother. ff will not happen to end up in a mobile device. |
| 16:52.55 | woglinde | he roh |
| 16:53.02 | roh | hey woglinde |
| 16:53.04 | summatusmentis | buz: I've got minimo on my Zaurus, it's not only WIndows Mobile |
| 16:53.05 | raster | too fat |
| 16:53.08 | buz | sasy who |
| 16:53.12 | buz | says |
| 16:53.23 | SpeedEvil | Context is - I'm running FF on a PII/300/128M at the moment, with 30 tabs open. |
| 16:53.35 | buz | it wouldnt really be firefox, more like mobile gecko |
| 16:53.53 | summatusmentis | again, minimo works on embedded linux |
| 16:53.53 | zecke | Everybody wants a browser with three different string implementations, that makes the codebase so easy to understand |
| 16:54.02 | roh | buz tried it. mobile gecko is multiple manyears away from beeing usable in any product |
| 16:55.01 | roh | zecke hehe... do not let yourself be bothered with such a discussion ;) i think google knew why the soc was a good idea |
| 16:55.04 | summatusmentis | alright, so, unless something drastic happens, I should plan on not having P1+ available when I need new phone right? |
| 16:55.29 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much worst case, the P1 device will be available. |
| 16:55.34 | SpeedEvil | Which has no wifi/... |
| 16:55.56 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: is wifi gonna be the only improvement? |
| 16:55.56 | SpeedEvil | That's assuming the total worst case doesn't happen, and P1 doesn't ship. |
| 16:56.06 | SpeedEvil | Wifi, and more memory, and larger processor |
| 16:56.11 | SpeedEvil | more flash |
| 16:56.17 | summatusmentis | is it slow now? |
| 16:56.25 | SpeedEvil | 266Mhz isn't very slow IMO. |
| 16:56.31 | SpeedEvil | Think P100 or so class. |
| 16:56.42 | woglinde | speedevil but video decoding |
| 16:56.49 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 16:56.54 | summatusmentis | agreed, I'm just not familiar w/ it |
| 16:57.00 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: it will do decoding to QVGA of selected video |
| 16:57.14 | summatusmentis | alright, so worst case, I run angstrom on the P1 :-) thanks all |
| 16:57.34 | summatusmentis | assuming the opnemoko UI isn't ready at that point |
| 16:57.38 | koen | SpeedEvil: you can do qvga h264 decoding on a 120MHz avr32 :) |
| 16:57.48 | SpeedEvil | 'selected video' |
| 16:57.54 | duffyd | SpeedEvil: is there any indication when the wifi-capable version will be out, e.g. 6 months / longer... |
| 16:58.19 | summatusmentis | duffyd: that's P1+, and apparently current plan is sept. |
| 16:58.28 | roh | koen which you cannot compare to normal arm9 cpus which know of no float or vector... arm11 would be a closer match |
| 16:58.29 | duffyd | summatusmentis: thanks :-) |
| 16:58.51 | summatusmentis | sure thing duffyd, but I guess it's possible that may not happen, we'll see |
| 16:58.51 | duffyd | I guess I'll be opting for a P1 then ;-) |
| 16:59.01 | summatusmentis | me too, probably |
| 16:59.09 | koen | roh: avr32 doesn't have a fpu |
| 16:59.09 | SpeedEvil | Is this to measure power in something? |
| 16:59.19 | duffyd | summatusmentis: as I'm in Taiwan up until September so wanna get one before I go :-) |
| 16:59.55 | pH5 | Elrond: I think L means "read 32bit register L+1 times" and flag 0x4 is "increase offset after each read" whereas CMD is the starting offset |
| 16:59.58 | roh | koen but it can handle vector-arithmetics if i've read the docs right and thats what gived it the edge on video processing compared to traditional embedded cpus |
| 17:00.01 | summatusmentis | duffyd: :-P I'm gonna wait till I get to college(no coverage for my current phone, gsm is the only option) then probably buy a stupid little phone w/ the contract, and spend my money on the P1 |
| 17:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko k|to (n=kito@dslb-084-063-080-142.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:00.32 | summatusmentis | thanks all |
| 17:00.38 | duffyd | summatusmentis: cool |
| 17:01.16 | *** part/#openmoko k|to (n=kito@dslb-084-063-080-142.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:01.21 | pH5 | Elrond: "SEND L 02 CH 0 FL 0 CMD 08: 00002040 00002040 00002044" probably writes three times to the same register at offset 8 |
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| 17:02.01 | *** join/#openmoko KMRN (n=kumar@59.92.63.30) |
| 17:03.33 | aloril2 | summatusmentis: too early to say what will be done by September, depends on what people do with their Neos ;-) (it should have at least some kind of Go program ;-) |
| 17:05.19 | koen | pH5: so sphyrna could be 'functional' before the neo goes on sale? |
| 17:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@65-101-230-128.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 17:07.59 | pH5 | koen: if you let me play with the registers and not bother learning autoconf or distutils to write a decent .bb, maybe ;) |
| 17:08.21 | pH5 | after the initial setup, apart from the occasional read of register 0x16 (the ms counter), the only thing that happens on channel 0 is register 0x08 being switched between 00006040 and 00002040 |
| 17:10.17 | pH5 | the channels 1-8 seem to work similar. different registers and all, but length/offset/flag 0x4 work the same. |
| 17:10.35 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@cs78140146.pp.htv.fi) |
| 17:12.18 | woglinde | ph5 he autoconf |
| 17:12.45 | pH5 | Elrond: that would mean that those 0x23 packets (with the 12bit values) are readouts of the same register over time? |
| 17:13.03 | koen | s/autoconf/install -m755/ :) |
| 17:13.28 | pH5 | yeah :) |
| 17:15.14 | pH5 | bbl |
| 17:16.30 | *** join/#openmoko KMRN (n=kumar@59.92.60.67) |
| 17:18.46 | *** join/#openmoko guest_ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
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| 17:20.12 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p54951B25.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:20.13 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. I wonder if some of the 'registers' could be FIFOs. |
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| 17:27.54 | *** join/#openmoko stratus (i=stratus@conference/debconf/x-d81b4314fc2f22ee) |
| 17:28.55 | Elrond | Some of them are triggers. |
| 17:29.07 | Elrond | And I guess, some are fifos, yes. |
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| 17:48.38 | Elrond | hehe... reading from the same register works at 96kbit/s ;o) |
| 17:49.03 | Elrond | With peak of about 160kbit/s |
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| 18:12.59 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] |
| 18:16.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2309 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (gnokiigsm/at-emulator.c hw/modem.c hw/neo1973.c): |
| 18:16.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Add a GSM modem power up delay so that the modem doesn't start before gsmd (gsmd should probably be started before the power gpio asserted to avoid timing issue). |
| 18:16.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Clean up parts of the AT parser. |
| 18:16.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Disable the AT greeting, make gsmd happy. |
| 18:16.37 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 18:17.07 | Sup3rkiddo | will this revision solve the "couldnt connect to gsmd" issue? |
| 18:17.33 | Kero | :D |
| 18:17.49 | LuitvD | timer |
| 18:17.52 | LuitvD | counter |
| 18:17.53 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 20:51:03 (8.869±8.9 days) (1530;234) |
| 18:17.53 | LuitvD | XD |
| 18:18.12 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=Tetraden@Qbc3c.q.pppool.de) |
| 18:18.15 | Tetraden | hi |
| 18:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 18:24.58 | Tetraden | Im actually on my Way to get some Information about the Neo1973 and I don't find very much hard about the WLAN. Can anyone tell me if there is a WLAN chip into the Phone? |
| 18:24.59 | aloril | P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) |
| 18:25.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2310 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (sdl.c vl.c): On shutdown start the emulation if it's paused. |
| 18:25.41 | Tetraden | OMG. sorry, I have to restart my IRC client. |
| 18:25.47 | woglinde | lol |
| 18:27.23 | *** join/#openmoko Tetraden (n=FU-gibts@Qbc3c.q.pppool.de) |
| 18:27.28 | Tetraden | so, here I am again |
| 18:29.05 | Tetraden | So can anyone here tell me what sort WLAN chip is into the Neo1973 |
| 18:29.14 | woglinde | look at the wiki |
| 18:29.20 | woglinde | will be atheros |
| 18:29.40 | Tetraden | okay, thanks |
| 18:30.23 | Tetraden | summatusmentis: am I the only one who thinks the Wiki is a bit chaotic? |
| 18:31.01 | Tetraden | ooh, the nickname was automatic :S |
| 18:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB52AD4.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:31.53 | stefan_schmidt | Tetraden: If you have good idea to give the wiki a better order, go ahead. |
| 18:32.56 | woglinde | wikis always are bot chaotic |
| 18:32.59 | woglinde | bit |
| 18:33.01 | Tetraden | may I have an idea, but I don't have the leisure *gg* |
| 18:34.00 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@ASte-Genev-Bois-151-1-78-90.w81-48.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:36.34 | stefan_schmidt | Tetraden: So that could be the reason why it is chaotic. Nobody has the time take care about it after adding the valuable stuff. :) |
| 18:37.05 | Tetraden | :D may be ;) |
| 18:38.30 | Tetraden | Is the estimated release date of phase 1 really unknown? Ore are there any internal rumors? (sorry for some stupid questions but I know about the whole project since about 1 hour) |
| 18:39.09 | woglinde | the first nearly 500 are build |
| 18:39.13 | woglinde | so be patient |
| 18:39.26 | Tetraden | WHOOHOO! :D |
| 18:40.27 | juri_ | can i has free software telephone? ;P |
| 18:40.51 | woglinde | free as in free beer? |
| 18:41.03 | juri_ | don't get me started. :) |
| 18:41.31 | Tetraden | lol *signals the same as juri_* ;D |
| 18:41.36 | Tetraden | nono |
| 18:42.00 | Tetraden | the more interesting thing for me are the shipping costs |
| 18:42.30 | Tetraden | from where will it be sent? |
| 18:42.42 | woglinde | form taiwan |
| 18:43.00 | woglinde | in germany you have to pay 19% vat too |
| 18:43.23 | Tetraden | arrg |
| 18:43.55 | woglinde | in sommer, fall or winter? |
| 18:43.59 | stefan_schmidt | woglinde: Go freelance and you can get it back from your tax station |
| 18:44.05 | Tetraden | I'll buy it in Swiss and sew it into my car seat XD |
| 18:44.16 | summatusmentis | SrRaven: I was wondering the same thing earlier, apparently in 6months(according to the topic) |
| 18:44.20 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:44.32 | summatusmentis | I'm probably gonna get the 'non-final' version |
| 18:44.41 | SrRaven | oh 6 months |
| 18:44.48 | SrRaven | Ill probably have bought a other one by than |
| 18:44.56 | stefan_schmidt | woglinde: Don't remember me at university stuff. :) |
| 18:45.14 | woglinde | stefan_schmidt -> remeber |
| 18:45.14 | woglinde | stefan_schmidt -> remeber |
| 18:45.17 | woglinde | hehe |
| 18:45.43 | summatusmentis | SrRaven: that'll be when it's mass market released |
| 18:46.05 | SrRaven | I know but I doubt it will be able to keep up to my expectations |
| 18:46.22 | Tetraden | holy sh*t! more than 50 Euros of tax in Germany. That sucks! |
| 18:46.38 | summatusmentis | what sorts of expectations? you can get it soon-ish, but it's not... end-user ready |
| 18:46.52 | woglinde | tretaden yes :( for the p1 phones we had to pay vat too |
| 18:46.54 | SrRaven | im a poor student |
| 18:46.58 | woglinde | but ups cheated |
| 18:47.00 | woglinde | some |
| 18:47.14 | woglinde | so ir ranged from nothing to 31 euros |
| 18:47.22 | Hopscotch | you just had to say that it was a nonworking prototype |
| 18:47.27 | Hopscotch | then it was for free |
| 18:47.30 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:47.31 | woglinde | Hopscotch no |
| 18:47.39 | woglinde | the german toll know this story |
| 18:47.42 | stefan_schmidt | Hopscotch: I have done this. Still 24 Eur |
| 18:47.42 | woglinde | or ups |
| 18:47.49 | woglinde | 24?? |
| 18:47.54 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:47.57 | woglinde | somewath |
| 18:48.21 | Hopscotch | here it worked... |
| 18:48.23 | stefan_schmidt | woglinde: moment let me search the invoice |
| 18:48.28 | woglinde | Hopscotch where is here? |
| 18:48.40 | Tetraden | and I live right in the Center of Germany -_- |
| 18:48.52 | stefan_schmidt | woglinde: Right, 24,41. For all three phones we got in Braunschweig |
| 18:48.55 | aloril2 | hmm. [[Neo1973]] page needs a bit updating for P1 |
| 18:49.06 | Tetraden | 250 Kilometers to any border |
| 18:49.51 | Hopscotch | woglinde: würzburg, bavaria, germany :) |
| 18:49.58 | woglinde | stefan_schmidt I got a second letter from ups which sayed I payed 33,31, which I surely not did only payed 22 |
| 18:50.03 | Tetraden | lol, so much germans here |
| 18:50.16 | stefan_schmidt | Hopscotch: Bavaria is the reason. ;) |
| 18:50.23 | stefan_schmidt | woglinde: Yeah, same here. No idea why |
| 18:50.24 | Tetraden | :P |
| 18:50.42 | woglinde | stefan_schmidt no I think I depends on the ups-agent |
| 18:50.43 | stefan_schmidt | Tetraden: .de is the secret OpenMoko headquarter |
| 18:50.55 | Tetraden | hehe |
| 18:51.22 | Tetraden | may due to the CCC... maybe |
| 18:51.30 | woglinde | hehe |
| 18:51.48 | woglinde | psst |
| 18:51.49 | stefan_schmidt | Tetraden: Yeah, some people from there, but not all. |
| 18:52.15 | stefan_schmidt | During LinuxTag we had some hacking from OM team at CCCB. Was fun. |
| 18:53.02 | Tetraden | hmm |
| 18:53.58 | Tetraden | lol, lets find some people germany beneath a border and some right behind it. ;) |
| 18:54.09 | woglinde | why? |
| 18:55.06 | Tetraden | so taking the phones over into a pocket of a jacket and spreading them in germany |
| 18:55.22 | woglinde | hm the over countryes have to pay vat too |
| 18:55.48 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:55.57 | Tetraden | not if you have it into your pocket while vacations ;) |
| 18:56.20 | Tetraden | who needs cardboards? |
| 18:56.21 | woglinde | hm maybee you can travel to taiwan, but thats expensive |
| 18:56.22 | stefan_schmidt | ~botmail zecke Feel pestered about going to GUADEC. I'm working on getting a nice 6 people apartment. :) |
| 18:56.35 | Tetraden | lol |
| 18:57.05 | stefan_schmidt | woglinde: Just calculate how much you need to bring. :) |
| 18:57.18 | Tetraden | hehe |
| 18:57.32 | woglinde | hm |
| 18:57.40 | Tetraden | but if you take to much with you, you have to pay vat. |
| 18:57.51 | woglinde | hm you can lie |
| 18:57.54 | woglinde | hehe |
| 18:58.03 | Tetraden | lol |
| 18:58.09 | Tetraden | they are all mine |
| 18:58.10 | woglinde | cheap plastic toys |
| 18:58.18 | woglinde | from china |
| 18:58.30 | Tetraden | I need them for myself XD |
| 18:58.38 | woglinde | I collect them |
| 18:58.39 | woglinde | hahah |
| 18:58.45 | Tetraden | XD |
| 18:58.55 | stefan_schmidt | They all have different serial numbers. ;) |
| 18:59.06 | stefan_schmidt | They are unique |
| 18:59.45 | buz | i still say fic should sell the phones for 100$ and force people to buy the software for 250$ then deliver software via net |
| 18:59.58 | woglinde | buz??? |
| 19:00.01 | woglinde | its gpl |
| 19:00.09 | woglinde | no one hinders you to put on webset |
| 19:00.12 | woglinde | website |
| 19:00.15 | woglinde | that wont work |
| 19:00.16 | woglinde | hehe |
| 19:01.13 | buz | well but fic online store will only sell the bundle |
| 19:01.35 | buz | selling gpl stuff is ok after all ;) |
| 19:01.39 | woglinde | yes |
| 19:01.47 | buz | of course you have to flash it yourself |
| 19:01.50 | buz | so it's a kit so to speak |
| 19:01.57 | woglinde | but its also okay to put for no cost online |
| 19:02.03 | buz | sure |
| 19:02.08 | buz | but you can only get the phone as bundle |
| 19:02.12 | woglinde | I meant someonelese |
| 19:02.23 | buz | sure but who cares |
| 19:02.26 | buz | fic still gets the money |
| 19:03.10 | buz | and you only pay tax on the device |
| 19:04.04 | woglinde | sure |
| 19:05.11 | buz | you win, fic wins, tax man loses |
| 19:05.44 | buz | i wonder what a neo costs to make |
| 19:05.57 | buz | i'm guessing below 150$ |
| 19:06.16 | woglinde | hm |
| 19:06.21 | woglinde | only material? |
| 19:06.29 | woglinde | or planing and developing too? |
| 19:06.32 | roh | its not qvga... do not forget |
| 19:06.44 | buz | material + assembly |
| 19:07.01 | woglinde | I dont know prices |
| 19:07.05 | Tetraden | hmm, soes anyone know the shipping costs to USA off the top of the head? |
| 19:07.08 | woglinde | in this quantities |
| 19:07.19 | buz | well i once read a blackberry costs 120$ to make (that was some 1 year ago) |
| 19:07.33 | buz | even allowing another 30$ for the vga display it still wouldnt cost more than 150$ |
| 19:07.50 | roh | since transportation also costs money you propably can spare more money by bulk-ordering 10 pieces instead of 10 single ones |
| 19:07.51 | buz | and obviously component prices have fallen since then |
| 19:07.55 | woglinde | blackbeery is cheaper quality |
| 19:08.07 | buz | but keyboard is more expensive to assemble |
| 19:08.56 | buz | http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=06/07/20/2336244 |
| 19:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@p54AA5DC1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.25 | roh | buz ignoring licenses and comparing with a vendor who looses money on selling phones gets us nowhere |
| 19:10.51 | buz | because fic is paying licensing fees to whom exactly? |
| 19:11.12 | woglinde | bluetooth eventually? |
| 19:11.18 | woglinde | but i didnt see the logo |
| 19:11.19 | woglinde | *g* |
| 19:11.32 | buz | might be CSR that pays for that? |
| 19:11.35 | roh | buz gsm e.g. is licensed afaik |
| 19:11.55 | buz | the gsm module comes from ti |
| 19:12.04 | buz | no need to license that if i'm not totally wrong |
| 19:12.05 | roh | buz you don't want do know how expensive 3g licenses are |
| 19:12.10 | roh | buz its not a module |
| 19:12.28 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 19:12.42 | buz | well its self contained in any case |
| 19:12.57 | roh | and even then you'ld be paying licenses via the mocule price. you cannot skip them and it does not get cheaper |
| 19:13.08 | juco | 3g licenses? |
| 19:13.13 | buz | well duh, obviously blackberry would pay for their modules as well |
| 19:13.15 | juco | as in HSDPA? |
| 19:13.21 | woglinde | juco umts |
| 19:13.23 | buz | last i heard blackberry didnt make their own gsm stack |
| 19:13.32 | roh | juco not now.. sometime later ;) |
| 19:13.33 | woglinde | or cdma2000 |
| 19:13.51 | juco | are those all qualcomm standards? |
| 19:14.03 | buz | heavily patent encumbered at least |
| 19:14.05 | roh | buz nobody did his own gsm stack. there are only 3 or 4 avail worldwide, the rest is branded/licensed |
| 19:14.10 | woglinde | qualcom is cdam200 umts is etsi |
| 19:14.13 | buz | exactl |
| 19:14.13 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 19:14.13 | buz | y |
| 19:14.22 | buz | and generally when you buy a chipset, you get the license with it |
| 19:14.45 | roh | buz which also means you do not get around the cost of it. |
| 19:14.54 | buz | the cost is in the component |
| 19:15.04 | buz | so if you add up components the cost will be included in the final price |
| 19:15.17 | roh | buz its not that easy |
| 19:15.36 | woglinde | hm only german -> http://www.golem.de/0706/52979.html |
| 19:15.38 | roh | and no i cannot discuss any details on hw-pricing |
| 19:15.48 | woglinde | roh hehe |
| 19:16.17 | roh | *sigh* |
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| 19:17.17 | roh | bbl.. need to hunt some food |
| 19:17.46 | buz | boy thats ugly |
| 19:19.12 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.98.156) |
| 19:19.17 | woglinde | re zecke |
| 19:20.50 | buz | god damn hail storm |
| 19:20.58 | buz | sounds like air gun hits at the windows |
| 19:21.11 | buz | i wonder if the car will survive that |
| 19:22.16 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X1540.x.pppool.de) |
| 19:29.45 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Got my botmail or should I pester you personally about GUADEC? |
| 19:30.05 | koen | ooooh, more fun people at guadec |
| 19:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:30.48 | stefan_schmidt | koen: yep. Where do you stay? |
| 19:31.32 | koen | the formula1 |
| 19:32.06 | SrRaven | hmm the iphone can do youtube |
| 19:32.10 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: no botmail. I have a math exam on tuesday and if I pass I will go to guadec |
| 19:32.51 | woglinde | zecke will pass |
| 19:32.53 | woglinde | I am sure |
| 19:32.55 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: What kind of math? |
| 19:33.01 | koen | zecke: http://3fm.nl/downloads/rekenvaardigheid.pdf http://3fm.nl/downloads/uitslag.pdf |
| 19:33.22 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: analysis and such |
| 19:33.30 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Noted. I'm searching for a nice 6 people apartment right now. Waiting for responses. |
| 19:33.56 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Ah, analysis is the nice math. :) |
| 19:35.04 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I also could offer Mate to get you there. ;) |
| 19:35.33 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Anyway, crossing fingers for tuesday. |
| 19:40.23 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I currently play the "Mate vs. living in absolute poverty game" and I lose too often |
| 19:41.16 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Mate goes on me. |
| 19:41.39 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I could add some more alcoholic if you like. :) |
| 19:42.11 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: well, that makes me spend more than a dollar a day ;) |
| 19:42.19 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: BTW, tried to do the initial commit to the bindings project again? ctai should have fixed something. Not sure is it was the right thing. |
| 19:43.06 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@df01t2-212-195-100-169.d4.club-internet.fr) |
| 19:43.23 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: I still don't get why you have to live in poverty. I can't count how much job offers you have. :) |
| 19:43.40 | zecke | it worked |
| 19:44.18 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 19:44.36 | stefan_schmidt | So TT pays your GUADEC trip? *caught* |
| 19:44.49 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: well, in contrast to some of my friends from school I can decide to live in poverty, others are just forced to :) |
| 19:45.03 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: well, Knut will be offline/on the road for another two weeks |
| 19:45.41 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: So you decided to get the perspective? |
| 19:46.41 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: well, I decided to see what the offer could be. But as he is on the road we have not talked too much |
| 19:46.54 | zecke | http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=bindings yipeee |
| 19:47.08 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: ah, sorry. I meant the perspective of poverty. |
| 19:47.19 | zecke | (now I need to make it compile again) |
| 19:47.49 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: yes, but I fail most of the days |
| 19:47.56 | koen | zecke: you could sell off some of the 'embedded' processing power from all the devices you have :) |
| 19:48.39 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: do you want to join the bindings project now? |
| 19:53.10 | *** join/#openmoko _schurig (n=schurig@p54B285A2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:54.38 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 19:56.05 | noidd | anyone know the set command off the top of their head to change the boot timeout on the neo? |
| 19:56.25 | noidd | i'm on my 10th reboot trying to catch the "send something before timeout" section on /dev/ttyACM0 |
| 19:57.31 | Elrond | noidd - Press AUX button while powering up. |
| 19:58.16 | noidd | Yup, Boot, console usb, serial etc |
| 19:58.20 | Elrond | That is: hold aux, keep it holded. Press power until neo boots, take fingers from both buttons. |
| 19:58.47 | Elrond | noidd - Right. In that mode you can connect to ttyACM0 anyway. You don't have to select any option in the menu. |
| 20:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@75-164.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi) |
| 20:00.38 | Elrond | How long do I have to remove the battery to make the neo fully reset? |
| 20:01.47 | noidd | awesome, thx |
| 20:02.14 | Elrond | noidd - Of course you can set the bootdelay var to say 8 or so. |
| 20:04.19 | Elrond | ... I did that. So I can get to u-boot easily after a reboot. Without needing to physically access the neo. |
| 20:06.12 | noidd | the one thing I keep doing is "nand erase clean rootfs" |
| 20:06.15 | noidd | then flashing |
| 20:06.24 | noidd | then reconnecting and hitting "enter" to get a prompt |
| 20:06.33 | noidd | and of course it re-runs the nand erase :-) |
| 20:06.55 | Elrond | *G* |
| 20:07.12 | noidd | the main problem i'm having is taht my image won't boot X right now |
| 20:07.16 | noidd | invalid flag -pf |
| 20:07.28 | Elrond | Do some dummy command after doing the first "nand erase rootfs". |
| 20:07.31 | Elrond | Like "date" |
| 20:07.33 | noidd | so I just updated and rebuilt so going to try again before I go debugging |
| 20:07.44 | noidd | or help :-) |
| 20:07.53 | Elrond | Yeah, or "help". |
| 20:10.34 | zecke | ~lart for not updating the ChangeLog |
| 20:10.34 | apt | drops a baby grand on for not updating the ChangeLog |
| 20:13.59 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 20:14.40 | Elrond | counter |
| 20:14.41 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 19:52:39 (8.828±8.8 days) (1531;234) |
| 20:14.53 | *** join/#openmoko chris^ (n=kraetzi@p548ADD84.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:15.11 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@24-136-28-81.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 20:16.31 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: sorry to abuse as proxy: Can we get CIA integration for the stuff at projects? |
| 20:17.53 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178211133.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:19.05 | Elrond | Hi pH5 |
| 20:19.18 | pH5 | hi Elrond |
| 20:20.06 | Elrond | pH5 - My HH moved into a crazy state: After rebooting, the first call to even your old hhtest gets only a few zero bytes. I have now removed the battery for a while in the hope, that it will turn the chip back to normality. |
| 20:21.44 | pH5 | Elrond: good luck, but I still don't believe we can kill it that easily. did you play with the register readout a bit? |
| 20:22.39 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 20:22.56 | Elrond | pH5 - Yep, I did. I tried the repeated read on the clockregister (16). And thus found out, that it can read at about 96000bit/s with a shortime peak of about 150000bit/s |
| 20:24.52 | pH5 | heh. nice. |
| 20:26.53 | Elrond | This stupid chip thingy took me a while. Because I suspected a bug in my test-suite rewrite (I factored outs some hammerhead.BasePacket class for usage in sphyrna). Playing with it, always needing to reboot to get the chip into this "rebooted" state was.. not nice. |
| 20:27.52 | noidd | ok, no X for me |
| 20:28.16 | Elrond | noidd - The -pf bug was on bugzilla. You might want to check it. |
| 20:28.36 | noidd | I've not copied the modules over yet so it might be that |
| 20:28.45 | Elrond | No. |
| 20:31.10 | Elrond | noidd - (have not read it myself) http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=608 |
| 20:32.05 | noidd | I'm looking at it now, looks like its fixed |
| 20:32.58 | noidd | so I just have to update that specific package by the looks of it |
| 20:33.02 | pH5 | I wonder what's up with the 0x8 flag. |
| 20:34.08 | Elrond | pH5 - It's a bitmask. One is a fire channel measurements trigger bit. Needs an edge to fire. |
| 20:35.31 | Elrond | Another one starts the timestamping clock. |
| 20:35.55 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: CIA needs a svn post-hook, right? Sadly I don't have access to the projects machine. Like to fill an enhancement bug? I'll pester some people about it when .tw is awake again |
| 20:36.09 | pH5 | Elrond: sorry, I meant the packet flag 0x8. 0x4 I understand, and with 0x2 I see at least something change. |
| 20:36.23 | Elrond | pH5 - Ahhh. |
| 20:36.29 | guaqua | what is CIA? |
| 20:36.30 | pH5 | Elrond: already found out which bit in register 8 starts the clock? |
| 20:36.50 | pH5 | I guess the measurement trigger would be the 0x4000 bit |
| 20:36.53 | stefan_schmidt | ~cia |
| 20:36.54 | apt | from memory, cia is a CVS/Subversion commit notification bot run on #commits among other channels, originally by scanline, http://cia.vc/, or the Central Intelligence Agency, but the bot is more important. ;) |
| 20:37.14 | guaqua | okay |
| 20:37.22 | guaqua | ~apt |
| 20:37.23 | apt | methinks apt is the debian package manager and nothing to do with ibot, infobot, jbot or purl |
| 20:37.29 | guaqua | purl :D |
| 20:41.07 | pH5 | Elrond: I believe in channel 1, registers 0x20 and 0x21 are increased every time when some other register on that channel is read |
| 20:41.32 | Elrond | pH5 - Huh... |
| 20:42.08 | pH5 | and registers 0x23 and 0x2c contain a different value every time. 0x23 sounds familiar from the logs.. |
| 20:42.53 | Elrond | Yes. |
| 20:42.59 | Elrond | 0x23 are those 16bit thingies. |
| 20:43.45 | pH5 | 0x20 is increased by two every time I read 0x23 :) |
| 20:45.00 | pH5 | and 0x21 is increased by 0x200 (or the lowest byte is not used or used for something different and it's 0x2, too) |
| 20:45.42 | pH5 | stefan_schmidt: I'm happy to see you happy :) |
| 20:46.01 | _schurig | when something is automatically increasing when you read another register, then it might be the case that the increasing register is same pointer to an internal data structure |
| 20:46.33 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: okay :) |
| 20:47.17 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: We are working to get some better IT infrastructure plus administration, too. BTW :) |
| 20:47.20 | _schurig | e.g. reg 0x20 could really be a u8 *ptr; and when you read 16 bits from reg 0x23, it would increment by two |
| 20:47.49 | Elrond | _schurig - One can only read in multiple of 32bit. |
| 20:48.09 | _schurig | ah, so thrash my guessing into the wastebasket :-) |
| 20:48.11 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: admin was the job where you have little to do and can do 90% private stuff? |
| 20:48.12 | pH5 | _schurig: so it's u16 *ptr and 32 bits from reg 0x23, but this could well be the case. |
| 20:48.40 | Elrond | Hmm, yeah. |
| 20:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko buffles (n=buffles@80-44-130-204.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:49.08 | _schurig | you can verify this thesis be re-setting 0x20 and looking if you get the same sequence of data out of 0x23 after this (assuming reading from 0x23 doesn't always give you the same) |
| 20:49.48 | Elrond | _schurig - 0x23 gives a stream. |
| 20:50.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 615 has been created by <zecke> |
| 20:50.02 | cdbot2 | * * CIA Integration for repositories at projects.openmoko.org |
| 20:50.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=615 |
| 20:50.05 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Everywhere else yes, but not here. Will be a hard job if you have to help people who really know how this stuff works or even hacked on it. :) |
| 20:50.36 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Just image somebody like to tell Harald something about netfilter rules :) |
| 20:51.25 | Elrond | *G* |
| 20:51.49 | _schurig | stefan_schmidt: or mickey about wireless security (->wellenreiter) |
| 20:52.04 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: if this is a sane admin he will use *BSD and ?pf |
| 20:52.06 | stefan_schmidt | _schurig: yeah |
| 20:52.28 | guaqua | stefan_schmidt: not an easy place to do admining :) |
| 20:53.04 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Still unix. We will go on his nerves anyway. People who know the technology are the worst user of it. :) |
| 20:53.52 | Elrond | pH5 - What confuses me then: Look at the basic channel-setup sequence: It writes at register=00..07 .. then at register 05..07. |
| 20:54.22 | pH5 | _schurig: I like your theory. resetting the counter seems to cause the same values to be read from 0x23 again, and although the counter counts up happily, the values seem to wrap at 0x1000 |
| 20:55.01 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:55.10 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 20:55.43 | stefan_schmidt | guaqua: The place is bad and great at the same time. We also understand if he needs hardware, etc.. |
| 20:56.00 | _schurig | pH5: nice. The you have some internal data (RAM or so) where 0x20 is the index into it. Some network chips work this way, e.g. the SMSC91111 |
| 20:56.07 | pH5 | Elrond: the 0x05 writes have the 0x2 flag set - there something completely different happens |
| 20:56.31 | pH5 | Elrond: just take a len 0x3f memory dump at 0x00 with flags 0x4 or 0x6 to see the difference. |
| 20:57.16 | Elrond | pH5 - Ahh. Will do, when I have the battery back. ;-) |
| 20:57.17 | pH5 | I hope that each channel has its own 4k block, not that we need to start thinking about memory management. |
| 20:57.38 | guaqua | stefan_schmidt: if he needs hardware? |
| 20:58.13 | _schurig | pH5: this network chip also has 4 banks a 8 registers ... hope you don't have something similar |
| 21:10.57 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 21:10.57 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting perhaps any week <> Mass market perhaps in 6 months or more. |
| 21:11.46 | Elrond | :-) |
| 21:14.11 | Tetraden | Did i read this right? There is no WiFi in Phase 1? :/ |
| 21:14.38 | Elrond | Tetraden - Right. |
| 21:15.03 | Tetraden | What a bummer! :/ |
| 21:15.05 | pH5 | Elrond: and this is the same with flag 0x2 set: http://en.pastebin.ca/579852 not that we have something at 0x9d, 0x9e and 0x9f |
| 21:15.23 | pH5 | s/not/note/ |
| 21:16.17 | Elrond | pH5 - Does it have anything in common with the non-0x2 set? |
| 21:16.36 | Tetraden | lol, so are there any dates when phase 1+ starts ;) |
| 21:16.40 | Tetraden | ? |
| 21:16.55 | pH5 | Elrond: no, but the 0x2 set seems to be the same (currently?), regardless what the channel is set to. |
| 21:18.13 | Elrond | pH5 - Probably, because you haven't setup and started any measurements. ;-) |
| 21:19.46 | pH5 | good point :) |
| 21:20.16 | zecke | moko_banner hardcodes x11 :( |
| 21:21.52 | Elrond | pH5 - Let me get the neo back. I have a channels_arm(), and channel_setup, channels_fire() there. |
| 21:22.58 | pH5 | example dump of channel 1: http://en.pastebin.ca/579868 |
| 21:23.03 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: did you wrap libmokogsmd yet? |
| 21:23.04 | pH5 | Elrond: looking forward to it :) |
| 21:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 21:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62fef.bb.sky.com) |
| 21:31.44 | hrw | someone with prism card? |
| 21:32.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2311 10/trunk/oe/packages/upstart/ (6 files in 2 dirs): |
| 21:32.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * Update upstart to 0.3.8. Introduces no problems as we don't use it atm and |
| 21:32.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: brings us in sync with OE.dev |
| 21:32.24 | *** part/#openmoko juri_ (i=[tNAh+GD@volumehost.com) |
| 21:32.50 | Elrond | What is "upstart"? |
| 21:33.14 | zecke | Elrond: alternative init system used by ubuntu |
| 21:34.20 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 21:34.39 | Elrond | yais. Yet Another Init System. ;o) |
| 21:34.57 | Elrond | Or yair? ... Replacement. |
| 21:35.33 | hrw | upstart has to replace sysvinit and few other components. |
| 21:35.39 | hrw | will it do? time will show |
| 21:35.58 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Some nice ideas behind. Event driven |
| 21:37.13 | guaqua | it should also replace cron one day |
| 21:37.23 | guaqua | it's a general task scheduler |
| 21:39.06 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Most of these yair have nice ideas. |
| 21:39.14 | Elrond | Even microsofrt SVC has nice ideas. |
| 21:42.00 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Not decided if we use it. At some point we need to evaluate them. |
| 21:42.07 | *** join/#openmoko Imitation (n=imitatio@W3c20.w.pppool.de) |
| 21:42.53 | Elrond | Ahh :-) |
| 21:42.55 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@gw1.panoulu.net) |
| 21:43.12 | Elrond | Well, I'm old-fashioned sysadmin. I like SysV init. |
| 21:43.32 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 21:43.36 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Fine for server but sucks on a desktop and of course on a mobile |
| 21:43.51 | Elrond | hehe :-) |
| 21:44.54 | guaqua | i like bsd style init process |
| 21:45.19 | guaqua | don't need any special scripts to maintain |
| 21:46.49 | Imitation | my n-gage just blew up, so now it has no init at all. i need a new phone! |
| 21:47.08 | guaqua | my 6600 is dying |
| 21:47.16 | guaqua | so i'm actually thinking a P1 now :D |
| 21:54.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2312 10/trunk/oe/packages/mpg123/ (mpg123_0.66.bb oe-sync): * Catch up with OE.dev. Just some meta informations added |
| 21:57.04 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-206-102.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 21:57.30 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.38.136) |
| 21:59.25 | Elrond | pH5 - http://en.pastebin.ca/579924 |
| 22:00.11 | stefan_schmidt | koen, hrw, zecke: Anyone like to have a look at this one for OE.dev? http://people.openmoko.org/stefan/memedit-07.patch |
| 22:00.48 | stefan_schmidt | Its a /dev/mem edit tool, idea is similar to devman2 but the interface is readline based. Nice to use. |
| 22:03.36 | Elrond | pH5 - Replace unhexify with unhexstr from util.yp |
| 22:04.27 | pH5 | Elrond: yes, thanks |
| 22:04.54 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: what is the checksum of it? |
| 22:05.11 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: other question (unrelated to OE): whyis memedit better than devmem2? |
| 22:05.42 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: (checksum) MD5 or SHA1? |
| 22:05.53 | Elrond | pH5 - send_data is cmd, flags, chan, buf. |
| 22:06.04 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: md5 and sha256 |
| 22:06.08 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 22:06.17 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: (better) It uses readline interface as shell. Nice for fast hacking |
| 22:06.37 | zecke | fluff :) |
| 22:06.47 | zecke | any idea why libmokojournal is not GObject baseD? |
| 22:06.58 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: MD5 3d0f372fb213e09b8d04826f3a0bc2eb memedit-0.7.tar.gz |
| 22:07.12 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:07.18 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: SHA256 9bb7412a03a76da4219215d2f92addf71305ab3fcc7d9315bb6f9c41fbe851fd memedit-0.7.tar.gz |
| 22:07.31 | zecke | let me pull OE |
| 22:07.49 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 22:07.50 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: (libmokojournal) No idea. O-hand introduced it and I never used it until now. |
| 22:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@69.Red-83-57-0.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 22:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 22:08.57 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2313 10/trunk/oe/packages/libmrss/oe-sync: * libmrrs is already in sync with OE.dev |
| 22:09.01 | ninHer | hi all |
| 22:10.48 | stefan_schmidt | hi ninHer |
| 22:11.00 | ninHer | hello stefan_schmidt |
| 22:15.23 | Elrond | Hmm. Either ph5's hhtest is not 100% correct, or my gps chip is a bit changed. After the reboot, it doesn't react the first time. |
| 22:16.11 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I will have to pull some more revs before I can commit :) |
| 22:16.29 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: heh, take your time |
| 22:17.10 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: Callbacks for removed/added. I wonder why GObject introduces Closures... |
| 22:17.37 | zecke | the only difference is: One can be easily wrapped, the other not |
| 22:19.06 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Because they don't liek you wrapping it? ;) |
| 22:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:23.43 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2314 10/trunk/oe/packages/synaesthesia/oe-sync: * Already in sync with OE.dev |
| 22:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^ (n=moo@gw1.panoulu.net) |
| 22:27.04 | stefan_schmidt | It seems no easy ones left. Rest is for OpenMoko-OE master mickeyl. :) |
| 22:27.46 | tg | counter |
| 22:27.46 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 18:46:07 (8.782±8.8 days) (1532;234) |
| 22:33.46 | *** join/#openmoko stratus (n=stratus@86.157.3.237) |
| 22:37.23 | zecke | ref. coutning is another reason to use GObject |
| 22:37.35 | zecke | ~lart mokojournal for not being a GObject |
| 22:37.35 | apt | lowers mokojournal's priority for not being a GObject |
| 22:38.26 | hrw | zecke: make a request for it then? |
| 22:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:40.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2315 10/trunk/ (7 files in 6 dirs): |
| 22:40.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * Remove our own fork of the startup panel applet. This is upstream now and |
| 22:40.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: works well. |
| 22:40.24 | LuitvD | 'night |
| 22:40.54 | high-rez | counter |
| 22:40.54 | *** join/#openmoko stratus (n=stratus@86.157.3.237) |
| 22:40.54 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 18:39:33 (8.777±8.8 days) (1533;234) |
| 22:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:47.05 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1177763773.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:48.21 | zecke | hrw: well, the mail won't be nice |
| 22:52.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2316 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/openmoko-panel-mainmenu.c): * Revert local changes commited by mistake. |
| 22:53.51 | hrw | zecke: as many others when it came to openmoko soft |
| 22:55.27 | zecke | hrw: I have not yet written a non nice mail :) |
| 22:55.36 | zecke | (never ever at least today) |
| 22:58.28 | zecke | good night :) |
| 22:58.42 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: thanks, even with author name :) |
| 22:58.55 | zecke | sure |
| 22:59.13 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I wonder where the Schmidt ended up |
| 22:59.38 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: Killed because of a space after stefan? |
| 23:00.28 | zecke | this is what I hope |
| 23:01.09 | zecke | I wonder if the core-team knows that they need to integrate display migration into the core |
| 23:01.35 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@introspect.com) |
| 23:01.45 | hrw | space kills |
| 23:01.51 | hrw | in CIA script |
| 23:03.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2317 10/trunk/oe/packages/memedit/oe-sync: |
| 23:03.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * memedit is now in OE.dev (Thanks to Holger Freyther) so we are in sync with |
| 23:03.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: this package. |
| 23:03.48 | stefan_schmidt | ok, that was the last one. Already making to much mistakes. Too late. |
| 23:04.07 | Elrond | hehe :-) |
| 23:04.16 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Don't worry. :-) |
| 23:05.29 | zecke | night guys |
| 23:06.46 | thresh | svn:externals are baaaaaad |
| 23:06.53 | thresh | you cant track them with git. :P |
| 23:07.13 | zecke | not yet |
| 23:08.01 | stefan_schmidt | night zecke |
| 23:11.20 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 23:30.08 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-181.cust.wildblue.net) |
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| 23:37.51 | cheesy | counter |
| 23:37.52 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 18:11:04 (8.758±8.8 days) (1534;234) |
| 23:39.04 | *** join/#openmoko nop (n=nop@p54A09F0F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 23:39.04 | *** join/#openmoko filippo (n=filippo@host13-82-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 23:44.01 | filippo | counter |
| 23:44.01 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter 70% for P1: a week, a day 18:07:59 (8.756±8.8 days) (1535;234) |
| 23:45.54 | *** join/#openmoko _alcik_ (n=kahuna@chello089078036223.chello.pl) |
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