| 00:07.47 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=huhh@53d82c5b.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 00:08.01 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 00:09.42 | cjb | gah, the openmoko X terminal doesn't wrap lines! |
| 00:09.49 | cjb | so I have half a GPS reading :) |
| 00:09.57 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:10.10 | SpeedEvil | Copy paste may take it |
| 00:10.33 | SpeedEvil | If it'll do that - dunno |
| 00:10.48 | cjb | nope |
| 00:18.38 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-180-104.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:20.00 | cjb | $GPRMC,001701.68,A,4221.746559,N,07105.124072,W,000.0,000.0,180607,,,A*45 |
| 00:23.59 | cjb | .. seems to be in the middle of the mediterrean. ;-) |
| 00:25.44 | SpeedEvil | I assume it's bogus then? |
| 00:26.20 | cjb | I think I'm just decoding it incorrectly. |
| 00:27.17 | SpeedEvil | That's 42 north, 71 degrees west |
| 00:27.17 | cjb | here's a full stanza: http://pastebin.ca/573125 |
| 00:27.31 | cjb | is there a web form or something that'll decode it for me, or a unix app? |
| 00:33.33 | cjb | oh! -71. |
| 00:33.46 | cjb | I bet the leading 0 means "-" or something? |
| 00:35.23 | cjb | huh, it's close but not exact. |
| 00:36.22 | SpeedEvil | No - the trailing 'W' means 'west' |
| 00:36.30 | cjb | ok |
| 00:36.33 | cjb | why's the leading 0 there? |
| 00:36.36 | SpeedEvil | And it's decimal degrees |
| 00:36.39 | SpeedEvil | fixed width |
| 00:36.46 | SpeedEvil | goes to 18000 |
| 00:36.53 | cjb | righto. |
| 00:37.32 | cjb | so, what's the full lat/long? I tried: |
| 00:37.49 | cjb | Latitude: 42.2174655 |
| 00:37.50 | cjb | Longitude: -71.0512407 |
| 00:38.28 | cjb | and that's maybe 20 miles away |
| 00:39.34 | SpeedEvil | 4221 is 42.21 degrees, or 42 degrees (21/.6) = 35 min north |
| 00:39.49 | cjb | oh! |
| 00:39.51 | cjb | that explains it. |
| 00:41.18 | cjb | Thanks, I'm very new at GPS. :) |
| 00:42.34 | cjb | I guess I'm having trouble finding a mapping site that lets me enter that much precision. |
| 00:43.26 | SpeedEvil | Middle of boston? |
| 00:43.44 | SpeedEvil | Enter 42.35n 71.08w into google-maps |
| 00:44.19 | cjb | nope, that's a few km away. |
| 00:44.48 | cjb | on that google map, I'm just north of the river, near the Main and Vassar labels. |
| 00:44.55 | balrog-kun | i wonder if there's a way to use the cdbot2's google features to translate from coordinates to city names |
| 00:47.58 | SpeedEvil | Go into google map |
| 00:48.05 | SpeedEvil | click 'link this location' |
| 00:48.09 | SpeedEvil | go to the URL |
| 00:48.17 | SpeedEvil | you'll see a ll= pair of numbers |
| 00:48.33 | SpeedEvil | paste the numbers from the GPS here after moving the decimal point |
| 00:48.39 | SpeedEvil | two points left |
| 00:49.06 | cjb | hm, just a q=, no ll=, on that last url. |
| 00:49.16 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 00:49.17 | cjb | wait, I got one. |
| 00:55.46 | *** join/#openmoko unknown_lamer (n=clinton@c-68-49-173-78.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:56.00 | SpeedEvil | Ok - I guess I may have gotten somthing wrong - unless you're near a cemetary |
| 00:57.36 | cjb | nope. :) |
| 00:57.56 | SpeedEvil | Ah - right, sorry. |
| 00:58.00 | cjb | I'm at (google maps): 1 Cambridge Center, Cambridge, MA 02142 |
| 00:58.02 | SpeedEvil | That is not decimal degrees |
| 00:58.21 | SpeedEvil | 4221 is 42 degrees, 21 minutes |
| 00:58.27 | cjb | yeah |
| 00:58.39 | SpeedEvil | 3600)+(m*60)+s,ndeg,nmin,wdeg,wmin, ndeg+(nmin/60),wdeg+(wmin/60), $10,$9,herr+0 |
| 00:58.41 | SpeedEvil | ,err+0,v |
| 00:58.49 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:58.49 | SpeedEvil | 3600)+(m*60)+s,ndeg,nmin,wdeg,wmin, ndeg+(nmin/60),wdeg+(wmin/60), $10,$9,herr+0 |
| 00:58.50 | SpeedEvil | ,err+0,v |
| 00:59.15 | SpeedEvil | Err - no |
| 00:59.32 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I'm too tired for this. |
| 01:00.10 | SpeedEvil | 4221.4444 is 42 degrees 21.4444 degrees |
| 01:00.25 | cjb | can I plot that with Google? I think I need the extra precision; mapquest lets me plot deg/min/sec, but only two digits of sec. |
| 01:00.33 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 01:00.34 | cjb | no problem, you're doing better than I am :) |
| 01:00.37 | SpeedEvil | but you need to convert |
| 01:00.39 | cjb | k |
| 01:00.48 | SpeedEvil | 4221.746559,N,07105.124072,W |
| 01:01.32 | SpeedEvil | 21.746559/.6 = 36.244265 |
| 01:02.02 | SpeedEvil | So the decimal degree figure is 42.36.244265 |
| 01:02.07 | SpeedEvil | err - without the extra . |
| 01:02.37 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:02.41 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:02.46 | cjb | :) |
| 01:05.14 | SpeedEvil | http://maps.google.co.uk/maps?ie=UTF8&om=0&ll=42.362442650,-71.0854012&spn=0.007779,0.01914&z=15 look more like it? |
| 01:05.47 | cjb | perfect :) |
| 01:06.00 | cjb | thanks! |
| 01:06.09 | SpeedEvil | Glad it's working at least. |
| 01:06.32 | SpeedEvil | My nice scripts all got eaten by a laptop drive. |
| 01:06.42 | cjb | yeah :) It took a long time to lock, but it looks like it was spitting out new reads every two seconds after that. |
| 01:06.43 | SpeedEvil | car-gps logging ones |
| 01:06.47 | cjb | Aw, suck. |
| 01:06.59 | SpeedEvil | I needed to rewrite them anyway. |
| 01:07.10 | SpeedEvil | Part of them was doing real-time signal processing in awk. |
| 01:07.14 | cjb | :) |
| 01:07.25 | SpeedEvil | sox|hexdump |
| 01:07.36 | SpeedEvil | (logging data from injectors) |
| 01:07.38 | cjb | wacky. what was the signal? |
| 01:07.43 | cjb | ah, neat. |
| 01:09.27 | SpeedEvil | One of the apps I'm planning on 'porting' (it has an X version) is an engine tuner for an open-source ECU |
| 01:13.16 | *** join/#openmoko clinton_ (n=clinton@c-68-49-173-78.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:21.26 | cjb | hmph, still no mic working on p1. |
| 01:21.56 | [lankester] | cjb: does p1 is a usable phone |
| 01:22.03 | [lankester] | or a beta one |
| 01:22.21 | cjb | right now, more beta than useful. |
| 01:22.25 | cjb | but all the hardware clearly works. |
| 01:22.32 | [lankester] | ohh ok |
| 01:22.32 | cjb | except the microphone, here :) |
| 01:22.35 | [lankester] | great |
| 01:22.42 | [lankester] | so when new firmware |
| 01:22.50 | [lankester] | will be available .. it will be usable ! |
| 01:22.54 | cjb | yeah. |
| 01:22.59 | [lankester] | ok thx a lot |
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| 03:56.11 | daMaestro | counter? |
| 03:56.11 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 04:01:54 (2.168±2.2 days) (1502;232) |
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| 04:50.43 | cjb | http://gpsvisualizer.com/display/1182142053-02914-151.203.11.103.html # my public transit ride home, as recorded by openmoko :) |
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| 06:12.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2290 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (s3c24xx-nand-largepage.patch series): Add Ben Dooks' 244x large page NAND support |
| 06:12.55 | *** join/#openmoko jsmanrique (n=jsmanriq@cme-212-89-8-169.telecable.es) |
| 06:14.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2291 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/smedia-glamo.patch: first intermediate core driver snapshot. now VRAM access works. still very unfinished |
| 06:26.27 | mickey|fic | CM: dunno about availability, however I'm pushing OpenMoko to release an announcement while I'm still here. |
| 06:26.53 | CM | mickey|fic: Thanks, any news is better than nothing. :-) |
| 06:26.57 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@62.237.12.2) |
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| 06:37.30 | wehttamb | counter |
| 06:37.31 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 02:41:14 (2.112±2.1 days) (1503;232) |
| 06:43.53 | aloril | mickey|fic: how long are you going to be there? |
| 06:45.04 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 06:45.26 | ynezz | i wonder, if I'll be the lucky one to order one of the first 500 Neos ;-) |
| 06:46.38 | mickey|fic | aloril: leaving on 23th |
| 06:47.42 | aloril | hmm.. sounds like this week is unlikely then |
| 06:48.22 | *** join/#openmoko [cc]smart (n=[cc]smar@gw.ptr-62-65-142-223.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 06:48.48 | aloril | (for ordering unless announcement and ordering are close to each one) |
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| 06:55.31 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@84.163.76.52) |
| 06:55.48 | aloril | ynezz: it could be 700 or 1000 before we can actually order items in stock (next 2 weeks 500 more being produced) |
| 06:55.57 | *** join/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8E58.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:58.09 | aloril | thanks for info about potential news |
| 06:58.47 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 07:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:05.28 | mickey|fic | bu yong xie |
| 07:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
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| 07:07.06 | *** join/#openmoko ColdFyre (n=coldfyre@c-67-170-236-73.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:07.11 | Vegar | guten tag |
| 07:07.23 | ColdFyre | guten nacht |
| 07:07.31 | mickey|fic | :D |
| 07:07.38 | Vegar | it's gute nacht |
| 07:07.50 | ColdFyre | mein beine tut mir vieh |
| 07:07.58 | ColdFyre | missed the e |
| 07:08.08 | mickey|fic | s/vieh/weh/ |
| 07:08.11 | ColdFyre | i'm sore and dying, gimme some credit :) |
| 07:08.16 | mickey|fic | hehe |
| 07:08.22 | mickey|fic | that always works |
| 07:08.30 | mickey|fic | talking about a good night.... |
| 07:08.46 | Vegar | wie spät ist es in taiwan? |
| 07:09.00 | mickey|fic | Vegar: 15:08 |
| 07:09.13 | aloril | 4 days only, 40% is too big for that (especially when there are no news yet) |
| 07:09.24 | aloril | counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for |
| 07:09.24 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for |
| 07:09.37 | Vegar | my german has been fading |
| 07:09.39 | Vegar | quite a bit |
| 07:09.54 | Vegar | I used to be able to make reasonable sentences |
| 07:10.03 | ColdFyre | i can... |
| 07:10.05 | ColdFyre | ...somewhat |
| 07:10.24 | ColdFyre | wer haben sie deutsch gelernt? |
| 07:10.40 | Vegar | Sie* |
| 07:10.45 | ColdFyre | i know |
| 07:10.49 | ColdFyre | too lazy for caps |
| 07:11.46 | Vegar | in die Schule |
| 07:11.51 | aloril | actual shipping date is probably still quite hard to predict for anybody, including Sean, but pre-ordering date is possible I guess |
| 07:12.32 | Vegar | oh crap |
| 07:12.41 | Vegar | it's 9.12 and I haven't gone to bed yet |
| 07:12.42 | ColdFyre | no die |
| 07:12.53 | ColdFyre | oo |
| 07:12.57 | ColdFyre | 00:12 here |
| 07:14.13 | Vegar | been fishing all night |
| 07:14.49 | *** join/#openmoko zipher (n=erik@gw.sbg.se) |
| 07:15.36 | ColdFyre | sounds fun :) |
| 07:16.21 | chreekat | ColdFyre: heyy that's my latitude |
| 07:16.34 | chreekat | longitude rather |
| 07:16.42 | ColdFyre | since i went out all weekend i never got a chance to cross compile crap for my hpone :( |
| 07:17.00 | Vegar | for your what? |
| 07:17.00 | ColdFyre | transedge |
| 07:17.02 | ColdFyre | lol i'm sorry |
| 07:17.06 | ColdFyre | phone* |
| 07:17.10 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-132-22.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:17.17 | Vegar | the question is still valid |
| 07:17.26 | Vegar | what phone? |
| 07:17.39 | ColdFyre | compile ... for my cell phone moto a780 |
| 07:17.49 | Vegar | ah |
| 07:18.11 | Vegar | I once had a motorola |
| 07:18.42 | ColdFyre | where did it go? |
| 07:18.45 | Vegar | the answer/hang up buttons were.. uhm.. swapped |
| 07:18.49 | Vegar | so I got rid of it |
| 07:18.53 | ColdFyre | ha |
| 07:19.09 | Vegar | and now it doesn't work, complains about SMS memory being full when it's empty |
| 07:19.31 | ColdFyre | i'm trying to convince all my freinds to give up those ugly treos/windows mobile POS phone for when the neo comes out |
| 07:19.43 | ColdFyre | what model was it? |
| 07:19.56 | schurig | ColdFyre: german "Vieh" is english "Beast" :-) |
| 07:20.25 | ColdFyre | schurig: that just added a whole twist on what i said |
| 07:20.27 | Vegar | ColdFyre: not quite sure, it doesn't say |
| 07:20.28 | Vegar | let me check |
| 07:20.51 | Vegar | hey.. my old SIM card is in it |
| 07:21.02 | schurig | Hehe, the weirdest translation error is one that I once heard from a missionary |
| 07:21.54 | ColdFyre | you opened the door...what was it? |
| 07:22.01 | schurig | He was in some arab country and wanted to say "I have Jesus in my heart". The word for heard sounds however very similar to the word for "dog" ... and dogs are seen as unclean animals in that social context |
| 07:22.18 | schurig | ColdFyre: what was it? A long sentence to type :-) |
| 07:22.37 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549BA5F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:23.00 | ColdFyre | "I have Jesus in my dog" |
| 07:23.43 | mickey|fic | heh |
| 07:23.45 | mickey|fic | why not |
| 07:23.55 | mickey|fic | everywhere |
| 07:24.51 | schurig | mickey|fic: in german pronounciation "chalb" vs. "kalb". The first one actually almost swiss-german spoken |
| 07:24.58 | cjb | hm, anyone able to tell me how to rebuild a familiar ipkg for openmoko? there's a "gpe-go" app; I can install the familiar ipkg, and it starts up, but crashes with SIGILL pretty soon, so I guess it was compiled for the wrong arm |
| 07:25.13 | cjb | so I just need to know how to take a familiar ipkg and recompile it for the openmoko target |
| 07:25.28 | Vegar | ColdFyre: I believe it might have been T191 |
| 07:25.31 | ynezz | mickey|fic: do they have some local brand of beer over there? |
| 07:25.52 | ColdFyre | never heard of that model |
| 07:25.54 | mickey|fic | ynezz: yah, i forgot how it's called, but i had one last week. not bad |
| 07:26.01 | schurig | cjb: you should use OpenEmbedded for that. The easiest start is maybe the MokoMakefile (see Wiki) |
| 07:26.11 | mickey|fic | cjb: find the corresponding .bb, then build it with OE. |
| 07:26.34 | mickey|fic | if it's not too old, then you may find a bb. Recent familiar builds use OE |
| 07:26.41 | Vegar | ColdFyre: http://www.motorola.com/rtte/PCS/MEdocs/AC2-41A.html |
| 07:27.11 | ColdFyre | ahh holy crap dude |
| 07:27.15 | Vegar | hehe |
| 07:27.30 | ColdFyre | http://www.phonescoop.com/phones/phone.php?p=590 <--min |
| 07:29.17 | *** join/#openmoko codeit (n=abrar@61.17.193.222) |
| 07:30.27 | ColdFyre | goodnight all |
| 07:30.48 | Vegar | night |
| 07:30.52 | cjb | mickey|fic: thanks, will take a look. |
| 07:37.53 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:38.31 | k|to_ | Sprechen wir jetzt Deutsch? |
| 07:40.28 | mickey|fic | no, #openmoko.de is still a bit away |
| 07:41.00 | k|to_ | heh |
| 07:41.30 | k|to_ | I saw the R&TTE declarations of conformity, and thought that it was a sticker that certified your phone as boring |
| 07:41.37 | k|to_ | I mean, look at those phones |
| 07:42.35 | Stephmw | heya |
| 07:43.02 | Vegar | Nein, wir sprechen English |
| 07:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mib (n=rob_w@p549BA5F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:44.40 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@leemanpe.ugent.be) |
| 07:45.09 | Stephmw | entshuldigung(sp?), ich spreche nicht sprechen deutsches... I'm ok in French or English though ;) |
| 07:45.35 | mickey|fic | i had 7 years of french in scool |
| 07:45.39 | mickey|fic | nothing left |
| 07:45.42 | mickey|fic | forgot anything |
| 07:45.44 | mickey|fic | never practiced |
| 07:45.52 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:45.56 | Stephmw | I'm quickly losing mine, and I'm a native |
| 07:45.57 | Vegar | I had german for five years |
| 07:46.06 | Stephmw | spent 20 years in the UK |
| 07:46.36 | *** join/#openmoko Vitaly (n=vlrubtso@unaffiliated/vitaly) |
| 07:46.42 | k|to_ | I've had german for two years, and it's doing almost nothing for me here :( |
| 07:47.16 | k|to_ | I can order food and get train tickets, but I can't hold a conversation to save me |
| 07:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549BA5F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:49.46 | CM | I had german for 5 years too, but that's 10 years ago |
| 07:50.17 | CM | Ich verstehe, aber Ich konnte nichts schreiben oder sprechen. |
| 07:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@achn-4db4812c.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 07:54.11 | cjb | (the backspace button produces something other than backspace.) |
| 07:55.22 | mickey|fic | try switching to the matchbox keyboard |
| 07:55.38 | mickey|fic | will bring sanity into the omkeyboard hopefully soon |
| 07:55.45 | mickey|fic | it looks cool, but is hardly usable |
| 07:55.50 | mickey|fic | mb-keyboard vice versa :) |
| 07:55.51 | cjb | ah, I see :) |
| 07:55.58 | mickey|fic | one of us working on merging back |
| 07:56.06 | mickey|fic | (because essentially om-keyboard is a fork of mb-keyboard) |
| 07:57.20 | *** join/#openmoko Vegar_ (i=vegar@51-142-151-213.mtulink.net) |
| 07:57.42 | cjb | hm, how do I switch? |
| 07:58.23 | *** join/#openmoko ml8128 (n=ml8128@86.73.139.236) |
| 07:58.42 | cjb | mickey|fic: I thought it might be holding down over the white panel area, but doesn't seem to be. |
| 07:58.54 | mickey|fic | it is |
| 07:59.00 | mickey|fic | but you need to find the right spot |
| 07:59.05 | mickey|fic | it's the rightmost part |
| 07:59.51 | cjb | huh, backspace doesn't work in matchbox's keyboard either |
| 08:00.34 | cjb | oh. it works, but the terminal doesn't understand the escape sequence it produces |
| 08:00.55 | mickey|fic | ah |
| 08:01.00 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 08:01.01 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 08:01.02 | mickey|fic | interesting. we might miss some terminal setup then |
| 08:02.47 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:04.49 | cjb | seems to happen whatever $TERM is set to -- xterm, ansi, vt100. |
| 08:08.25 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@dhcp-245-139-nwap-zm-kol.unizh.ch) |
| 08:09.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 08:17.05 | bedboi | cool, I saw that the neo release is near |
| 08:20.08 | mickey|fic | some cool events will happen |
| 08:20.17 | mickey|fic | one i'm looking forward to is friday |
| 08:20.26 | Stephmw | end of the week is always nice |
| 08:20.29 | mickey|fic | friday, rasterman comes from tokyo for a meeting |
| 08:20.30 | mickey|fic | heh |
| 08:21.26 | rwhitby | s/expresses/confesses/ |
| 08:23.10 | mickey|fic | heh |
| 08:23.20 | mickey|fic | the driving force of graphics in linux |
| 08:23.27 | mickey|fic | s/graphics/eye candy/ |
| 08:23.37 | mickey|fic | rasterman did enlightenment window manager back in the 90s |
| 08:23.53 | mickey|fic | and nowadays is working on a set of really cool libraries for all kinds of next-gen UIs |
| 08:23.57 | mickey|fic | "fluid UIs" |
| 08:24.02 | bedboi | cool |
| 08:24.12 | bedboi | mickey|fic: do you have some pointers? |
| 08:24.43 | mickey|fic | rasterman.com/files |
| 08:24.48 | mickey|fic | all kinds of videos and images |
| 08:27.38 | bedboi | thanks |
| 08:27.50 | mickey|fic | if you're more into reading, i recommend |
| 08:27.52 | mickey|fic | http://homepages.pathfinder.gr/kazanaki/contrib/concepts.pdf |
| 08:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko greentux__ (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:31.05 | thresh | ahah. if only those next-gen UIs are usable... |
| 08:31.12 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 08:31.17 | thresh | seriously, E is completely unusable. |
| 08:32.16 | bedboi | thresh: i never used it |
| 08:32.16 | mickey|fic | possible. not talking about E here |
| 08:32.23 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2C7F7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:32.27 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 08:32.33 | mickey|fic | i'm rather into EFL than E |
| 08:32.37 | mickey|fic | morning TRIsoft |
| 08:32.42 | bedboi | i've tried wmii... That's love at first sight |
| 08:33.26 | thresh | mickey|fic: well, as the only window manager + apps utilizing those "candy eye omg it's moving" widgets.. |
| 08:33.28 | bedboi | i've come to conculsion that UIs are just for PDA and stuff like that. On my laptop && desktop i don't want UIs |
| 08:33.37 | Tv | i'm a long term ion user |
| 08:34.18 | *** join/#openmoko crackfiend (n=chatzill@adsl-69-225-134-216.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 08:34.19 | bedboi | wmii rocks, have you tried it? |
| 08:34.30 | Tv | bedboi: i stil prefer ion ;) |
| 08:34.49 | bedboi | why's that? |
| 08:34.55 | Tv | wmii was missing something, but i forget what it was |
| 08:35.14 | bedboi | i have to admit that i still have not tried it |
| 08:35.39 | Tv | oh and don't judge ion by the default keybindings, i don't like them at all |
| 08:35.53 | bedboi | well same thing applies to wmii |
| 08:35.58 | bedboi | default settings is shitty |
| 08:36.07 | bedboi | brb (coffee) |
| 08:36.12 | Tv | i have bindings like f1/f2 goes to prev/next tab, f3/f4 to prev/next "desktop" |
| 08:36.32 | schurig | mickey|fic: I'd certainly fancy writing more something in efl than in gtk |
| 08:37.03 | mickey|fic | schurig: *nod*. lately there are even python bindings. |
| 08:37.09 | mickey|fic | although pretty early and rough for now |
| 08:37.30 | mickey|fic | and a couple of years ago, i did some c++ bindings |
| 08:38.23 | schurig | mickey|fic: so it scales down on how rought EWL is ... ?!? |
| 08:38.37 | *** join/#openmoko k|to (n=kito@141.26.94.148) |
| 08:39.55 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.75.130) |
| 08:39.59 | mickey|fic | rought? |
| 08:40.09 | mickey|fic | rough or right? ;) |
| 08:41.27 | mickey|fic | doing a product w/ EFL has been breeding in my head for quite a while. now the time seems right that I can inject this into the OpenMoko platform -- unclear as to where, when, and how though |
| 08:47.10 | aloril | with GTA02? |
| 08:47.15 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 08:49.08 | Sup3rkiddo | mickey|fic, did you happen upon "clutter"..looks similar to efl...but efl in g ta01 instead of gtk would have been awesome...flames away ;) |
| 08:49.42 | aloril | maybe its "as soon as feasible" |
| 08:50.08 | thresh | i wonder if horsepower would be enough to draw all ponies and stars |
| 08:50.16 | mickey|fic | yes. it's not like we don't have enough construction sites at this point of time |
| 08:51.45 | mickey|fic | so current focus is getting people to work on making the platform work at all |
| 08:52.12 | mickey|fic | that doesn't stop me from doing R&D re. next gen though |
| 08:52.23 | mickey|fic | :) |
| 08:53.57 | LaF0rge | as long as it's not RnB ;) |
| 08:54.14 | mickey|fic | heh |
| 08:54.18 | mickey|fic | no way |
| 08:56.50 | thresh | research and bankruptcy? |
| 08:57.29 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe29dd00-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 08:58.44 | rwhitby | Rhythm and Blues? |
| 08:59.07 | rwhitby | or Research and Break ;-) |
| 09:00.01 | mickey|fic | neither one sounds very appealing |
| 09:00.09 | mickey|fic | to me |
| 09:00.27 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:05.10 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62f60.bb.sky.com) |
| 09:07.55 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 09:15.36 | florian | good morning |
| 09:18.04 | mickey|fic | heya florian |
| 09:23.53 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
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| 09:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko nop_ (n=nop@p54A0B7F7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 10:07.30 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=hongtd@58.187.121.245) |
| 10:08.09 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 10:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549BA5F6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:10.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] |
| 10:18.18 | nox-Hand | Morning OMKers! |
| 10:18.28 | nox-Hand | counter |
| 10:18.28 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: 2 days 00:50:46 (2.035±2.0 days) (1504;232) |
| 10:19.28 | nox-Hand | Thankyou for that, aloril, I have now been supplied with my daily dose of ideas! |
| 10:20.22 | aloril | welcome |
| 10:22.06 | nox-Hand | .. a robot just talked to me.. |
| 10:22.20 | LuitvD | lol |
| 10:22.54 | aloril | hehe |
| 10:22.57 | LuitvD | don't forget the klingon greeting pose |
| 10:23.02 | nox-Hand | aloril! Welcome to Earth! We live in peace! Please help us estimate OpenMoko release times! |
| 10:23.14 | nox-Hand | LuitvD: I just did it |
| 10:23.17 | LuitvD | ah |
| 10:23.25 | LuitvD | then you'll be fine |
| 10:24.57 | *** join/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:25.12 | LuitvD | wow, your nose must be like an elephant or something.. |
| 10:25.58 | LuitvD | s/elephant/elephant's trunk/ |
| 10:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:27.16 | gamin | morning. LuitvD, as I just joined the channel this is a very interessting comment. I just wonder what the connection between openmoko and elephants is :P |
| 10:27.38 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@194.152.122.177) |
| 10:28.07 | nox-Hand | Wow, green sofa bones |
| 10:28.12 | nox-Hand | s/sofa/monkey |
| 10:28.16 | nox-Hand | s/sofa/monkey/ |
| 10:28.20 | nox-Hand | xD |
| 10:28.21 | LuitvD | openmoko = open-source = nerds = stupid conversations :) |
| 10:28.29 | LuitvD | nox-Hand: heheheh, nice try... |
| 10:28.37 | nox-Hand | LuitvD: Missed that last / ;) |
| 10:28.49 | LuitvD | I can see that |
| 10:28.54 | nox-Hand | LuitvD: Stupid conversations, sure. |
| 10:29.04 | gamin | hmm, monkeys and elephants - seems like the zo channel *lol* |
| 10:29.36 | gamin | zoo even |
| 10:29.37 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 10:30.33 | gamin | actually I'd just like to buy one of the neo's without knowing when they will be delivered. |
| 10:30.50 | nox-Hand | gamin: That |
| 10:31.14 | nox-Hand | 'd be an awesome idea - just checking the mail EVERY day |
| 10:31.35 | gamin | I wouldn't need to stop buy and read that crap over and over again "any week now" |
| 10:31.42 | LuitvD | nox-Hand: hehehe, ' and Return are to close to eachother aren't they? |
| 10:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=webjames@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 10:32.24 | gamin | nox-Hand: I have a concierge :p |
| 10:32.42 | LuitvD | gamin: yes, that's one more advantage of pre-ordering... too bad pre-orders aren't possible |
| 10:32.44 | nox-Hand | concierge, eh? |
| 10:33.04 | nox-Hand | LuitvD: on this stupid laptop, yeah |
| 10:33.13 | LuitvD | lol |
| 10:33.39 | LuitvD | too bad backspace doesn't work on returns |
| 10:33.42 | nox-Hand | gamin: There is a mailing list that tells you when its out you know |
| 10:33.57 | LuitvD | yeah, announce list |
| 10:34.21 | LuitvD | subscribe and let your mail client be your concierge |
| 10:34.35 | nox-Hand | Yaaay! =D |
| 10:35.13 | gamin | "announce"-list. the absolutely lowest traffic list I know of :) |
| 10:35.43 | nox-Hand | gamin: haha yeah |
| 10:35.56 | gamin | stay in the info-loop, get on the announce list. |
| 10:35.56 | LuitvD | absolutely |
| 10:36.08 | gamin | we'll tell you when the revolution is over ;P |
| 10:36.14 | LuitvD | planet.openmoko.org is quite informative... |
| 10:36.14 | nox-Hand | ;D |
| 10:36.21 | nox-Hand | Be back way later |
| 10:36.23 | nox-Hand | bai! |
| 10:36.31 | LuitvD | bye |
| 10:36.47 | gamin | baye |
| 10:39.42 | *** part/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@194.152.122.177) |
| 10:41.00 | *** part/#openmoko gamin (n=m@car06-3-82-240-156-91.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:44.42 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@gw1.panoulu.net) |
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| 10:52.26 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 10:53.21 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2292 10/trunk/oe/packages/mpg123/ (. mpg123_0.66.bb): add mpg123 mpeg player |
| 10:53.40 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2293 10/trunk/oe/packages/synaesthesia/ (. synaesthesia_2.4.bb): add synaesthesia, a psychedelic media player |
| 10:55.01 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:59.25 | ynezz | svn add lsd |
| 10:59.31 | mickey|fic | :D |
| 11:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko bumm13 (n=bumm13@dialup-4.242.192.15.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net) |
| 11:10.04 | *** part/#openmoko bumm13 (n=bumm13@dialup-4.242.192.15.Dial1.Seattle1.Level3.net) |
| 11:12.43 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 11:15.02 | Elrond | Any news in here? |
| 11:16.07 | LuitvD | not really |
| 11:19.05 | Elrond | I have a very few bits on the hammerhead protcol. I'll put them in the wiki this evening. |
| 11:22.07 | LuitvD | great |
| 11:24.40 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 11:24.54 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=Richter@pd95b2df8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:25.21 | pavelm | Hello, everyone |
| 11:25.31 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2294 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/machine.c: * add GTA02 machine type definition for gsmd |
| 11:26.09 | Elrond | Hi pavelm! |
| 11:26.16 | pavelm | Hi, Elrond! |
| 11:26.30 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@241-199-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 11:26.34 | pavelm | ....did a two day trip on a horseback, but I'm in surprisingly good shape for now. |
| 11:26.47 | Elrond | :-)) |
| 11:26.50 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:26.51 | pavelm | ..does anyone have 'unlimited calls for free' type sim-card? |
| 11:27.13 | Elrond | *duck* Did you try using the eo on the horseback? ;o) |
| 11:27.19 | SpeedEvil | Those are generally illegal. |
| 11:27.49 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - It's called "flatrate" ;o) |
| 11:27.52 | pavelm | speed: No... like if you pay enough per month, you can get local calls free. |
| 11:28.16 | pavelm | elrond: I indeed did try to use neo on the horseback -- but not this weekend. Touchscreen sucks and display sucks. |
| 11:28.53 | SpeedEvil | :) I've never seen quite 'free' - I think 6000 own-network minutes is the closest I've seen. |
| 11:29.11 | pavelm | speed: Yep, that's close enough :-) |
| 11:29.16 | SpeedEvil | Or free evenings and weekends on some tarrifs. |
| 11:29.21 | SpeedEvil | (uk) |
| 11:29.24 | pavelm | speed: Free weekend is good enough :-) |
| 11:29.28 | SpeedEvil | own-network |
| 11:29.48 | Elrond | Some try really-free on own-network here. |
| 11:30.18 | pavelm | speed: I'd like to get right mixer settings ... so that speaker _and_ microphone works. |
| 11:30.33 | SpeedEvil | I don't recall any completely free own-network ones, but I do remember free 'calling group' ones |
| 11:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 11:31.04 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|fic (n=mickey@61-230-50-198.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 11:31.32 | pavelm | Hello, mickey! |
| 11:31.38 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: so what are you wanting unlimited calls for? |
| 11:31.46 | pavelm | ...and send greetings to FIC :-) |
| 11:32.14 | pavelm | speed: Well, someone to do the call and play with mixer until both speaker and microphone works. |
| 11:32.21 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@108.Red-83-54-250.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 11:32.24 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 11:32.29 | pavelm | speed: I guess unlimited calls are not really required for that. |
| 11:32.39 | SpeedEvil | Oh right :) |
| 11:33.32 | mickey|fic | hi pavelm |
| 11:33.35 | mickey|fic | pavelm: will do, thanks |
| 11:34.51 | pavelm | mickey: Now that hardware is close to ready, are there any plans to 'stabilize' software so that at least outgoing and incoming calls work? |
| 11:34.55 | roh | pavelm there are several flatrates also here in europe |
| 11:35.19 | pavelm | mickey: Or is that for september? |
| 11:36.00 | roh | pavelm e.g. the base thingie from eplus here in germany. same cell network and landlines are included the (high) base-tax and you only pay for special numbers and other cell networks |
| 11:36.09 | pavelm | roh: True, they are few in my country, too. Popular one is "make your employer pay for it" :-). |
| 11:37.00 | roh | hrhr |
| 11:37.15 | pavelm | we used to have "everything free" flatrate, extremely expensive, in days pre-NMT network could not do tarrification. |
| 11:37.34 | SpeedEvil | Best deal I recall in the UK at the moment is pay-as-you-go t-mobile. You can add a 5 pound package to your SIM, and it'll give you free same-network calls for 5 days. |
| 11:37.42 | pavelm | ...then someone figured out to set up special number and just leave the phone calling to it 24/7 ;-). |
| 11:37.48 | mickey|fic | pavelm: what would you expect? ;) |
| 11:38.02 | mickey|fic | pavelm: of course we want to stabilize the software |
| 11:38.17 | mickey|fic | pavelm: i hope LaF0rge finds some time for gsmd again |
| 11:38.32 | *** join/#openmoko coryb_ (n=cory@76.74.124.24.cm.sunflower.com) |
| 11:38.48 | pavelm | mickey: I guess it is september, then ;-) |
| 11:38.55 | mickey|fic | ;) |
| 11:39.20 | pavelm | Did anyone figure out how to make neo ring on incoming call? |
| 11:39.32 | SpeedEvil | mp3 to ring-speaker? |
| 11:39.59 | pavelm | mickey: Ok, I guess that means "download jun17 version". |
| 11:40.08 | SpeedEvil | Actually - there is only two speakers, so mp3 to those |
| 11:40.27 | pavelm | speed: That's the easy part. Hard part is "how to tell that call is comming" without hacking C-code. |
| 11:40.41 | SpeedEvil | Isn't there a nice cooked event? |
| 11:40.45 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. |
| 11:40.52 | SpeedEvil | I need to get looking at the software part. |
| 11:40.54 | pavelm | libgsmd-tool is not script-friendly and buffers output. |
| 11:41.04 | pavelm | speed: If there's nice cooked event, I'd like to know. |
| 11:43.47 | pH5 | mickey|fic: seconded. multi-line response support in gsmd would be terrific. |
| 11:44.19 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu_ (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-223-148.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 11:47.16 | mickey|fic | pH5: could you guys request that to gsmd list please? |
| 11:47.26 | mickey|fic | i'll try pestering LaF0rge to find some time soon |
| 11:47.44 | mickey|fic | even better, send patches ;) |
| 11:47.46 | mickey|fic | cough |
| 11:48.40 | SpeedEvil | Interesting phone bit on radio 4 now (uk) |
| 11:49.11 | pH5 | mickey|fic: I know, I couldn't figure out how to do it easily, though. And I think LaF0rge had a plan. |
| 11:50.00 | pavelm | mickey: I'd like to send a patches, but I have no easy way of compiling for neo. Is patch likely to propagate into binaries in /tmp/deploy in a few days? That would do the trick... |
| 11:50.11 | LuitvD | damnit, bbc radio 4 online is a realtime stream *pukes* |
| 11:50.26 | SpeedEvil | Nothing that interesting it turned out. |
| 11:50.49 | SpeedEvil | Just going over the current state of the market basically. |
| 11:50.54 | SpeedEvil | and it's ended. |
| 11:51.13 | SpeedEvil | 'listen again' works - after the program is over. |
| 11:53.06 | SpeedEvil | Though their streaming is a bit broken. They seem to quota channels, and reduce quality till they hit a bandwidth target on overload. |
| 11:53.19 | SpeedEvil | I've seen concerts broadcast in 20k realaudio streams |
| 11:55.32 | mickey|fic | pavelm: you want the 'patch' utility? |
| 11:56.54 | mickey|fic | pavelm: whatever ipk's you need, send us a mail to distro-devel@lists.openmoko.org, i'll find a way to build them on buildhost. |
| 11:57.51 | pavelm | mickey: Actually I want python-gtk... and perhaps recompiled gsmd if I figure out how to fix it. |
| 11:58.20 | mickey|fic | ok, like i said, just mail your requests and i'll process them asap |
| 11:58.35 | mickey|fic | pygtk is noted. will look into that tomorrow |
| 11:58.46 | mickey|fic | all will be easier once we're done with the OMOE merge |
| 11:59.53 | pavelm | thanks for pygtk :-). What is OMOE? |
| 12:00.59 | ynezz | OpenMoko OpenEmbedded I guess |
| 12:01.40 | ynezz | i wonder how fast is pygtk on neo |
| 12:01.52 | pavelm | ynezz: It is fast enough on zaurus. |
| 12:03.33 | pavelm | ynezz: I do not need much. Few buttons like "turn on GPS"... maybe "navigate to given coordinates"... |
| 12:04.56 | inz | I'd guess pygtk doesn't lose (noticably) to C programs except maybe in startup times |
| 12:06.00 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: for GPS you mean? IMO, you want several screens. Straight position and altitude, with distance and name of nearest waypoint. |
| 12:06.01 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 12:06.19 | SpeedEvil | Track screen, with your track, zoomable. |
| 12:06.33 | SpeedEvil | Navigate to waypoint, showing speed, cross-track error |
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| 12:07.14 | SpeedEvil | Those are the big ones, though other ones are needed too. |
| 12:08.35 | pavelm | speed: Yep, but I'm into geocaching, so I want an arrow and a distance :-) |
| 12:08.58 | SpeedEvil | That's what I mean more or less by navigate to waypoint |
| 12:09.41 | SpeedEvil | Speed, an arrow showing difference in track and heading to waypoint, and heading, all in really large print. |
| 12:10.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 12:10.35 | pavelm | speed: Yes, that would e ideal. |
| 12:11.32 | pavelm | ...aha, I guess I need to go to "capture" tab. Makes sense. |
| 12:12.01 | roh | pavelm get yourself the routing diagram on paper |
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| 12:14.17 | pavelm | roh: Do you have any place where that can be had? |
| 12:14.28 | pavelm | roh: I 'just" want to enable microphone... |
| 12:14.36 | roh | oeh.. let me look |
| 12:18.07 | roh | pavelm you can search "WM8753" on http://wolfson.co.uk/search/ and will get the docs |
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| 12:21.32 | phed | weee |
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| 12:22.50 | pavelm | ...actually, there's http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem ... that seems to explain a bit. |
| 12:24.21 | roh | pavelm yeah. |
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| 12:25.26 | phed__ | hmm, the audio subsystem could be very interesting when done |
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| 12:45.39 | pavelm | ...ugh, aparently i'm too stupid for that. There are 3 pages of options in alsamixer, some are toggled by space, some by M, there are few different neo modes, and it refuses to capture anything but zeros. |
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| 12:50.05 | Placid | you're in binary mode :P |
| 12:54.53 | pavelm | placid: ? |
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| 13:01.22 | zecke | hey |
| 13:02.21 | pavelm | hi, zecke. |
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| 13:05.15 | pH5 | mickey|fic: I sent a (non-working) patch to gsmd-devel as a sign of good faith :) |
| 13:06.40 | Placid | pavelm: bad joke :) |
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| 13:15.20 | cjb | pavelm: hey, let me know how you get on with mic; I'm using your alsa state and also don't get anything from the mic. |
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| 13:18.51 | pavelm | cjb: I was unable to get it to work. Alsamixer has about 1300 options, completely undocumented, and I can't make sense of the schematics, either. |
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| 13:24.27 | balrog-kun | pavelm: are you guys using arecord for recording? |
| 13:24.39 | pavelm | balrog: yes. |
| 13:25.45 | balrog-kun | i will give it a try, too |
| 13:26.29 | pavelm | I'm not audio expert, and alsamixer looks extremely confusing to me. |
| 13:26.32 | balrog-kun | just need to compile alsa into the kernel first |
| 13:26.48 | balrog-kun | pavelm: yeah, that's because the WM8753 can do lots of things |
| 13:26.58 | pavelm | it works for me with /tmp/deploy images. |
| 13:27.21 | balrog-kun | my arm toolchains always miscompila alsa for some reason |
| 13:27.49 | balrog-kun | i will use a binary toolchain in a qemu vm instead |
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| 13:40.17 | Elrond | pavelm - /etc/alsa/*capture* |
| 13:40.53 | Elrond | pavelm - "alsactl -f /etc/alsa/capture-dunno.start restore" |
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| 13:45.04 | mickey|fic | pH5: thanks :) |
| 13:45.30 | mickey|fic | hey zecke |
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| 13:48.55 | zecke | mickey|fic: master :) |
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| 13:54.57 | Elrond | pH5 - BTW: Under what conditions did you create cold2.log? |
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| 13:59.53 | pH5 | Elrond: check out the NMEA data, I think that was in the woods, at the lake. Clear skies, but some trees in the way. |
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| 14:05.42 | pavelm | elrond: Thanks, /etc/alsa/* actually works. |
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| 14:11.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Neo1973_Audio_Subsystem]] |
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| 14:30.38 | LuitvD | counter |
| 14:30.38 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: a day 22:44:41 (1.948±1.9 days) (1505;232) |
| 14:30.42 | LuitvD | meh |
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| 14:35.03 | ph|ber | mroning |
| 14:35.07 | ph|ber | er morning.. even |
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| 14:48.52 | pavelm | Bye bye, and thanks for /etc/alsa :-) |
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| 15:17.13 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2295 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ChangeLog: Forgot to update ChangeLog on 'fix stock icons' commit |
| 15:18.01 | Elrond | mickey|fic - Is #610 actually assigned to the right person? |
| 15:18.42 | mickey|fic | let me lookup 610 |
| 15:18.45 | mickey|fic | !ombug 610 |
| 15:18.46 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 610, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 15:18.47 | cdbot2 | * * <zecke>: Unable to do initial commit to the openmoko-bindings project |
| 15:18.47 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=610 |
| 15:20.05 | mickey|fic | yes, cheng-han is supposed to look at that |
| 15:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:20.48 | Elrond | Good. :-) I think, the problem affects other proctts too, butI'm not sure. |
| 15:21.37 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: hi |
| 15:21.58 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, hi :)... |
| 15:22.46 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: For the reasons already stated: Consistency with the other bindings and the ease to wrap GObjects are the main reason to use the GObject wrapper of libgsm |
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| 15:23.53 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, alright then...i will start again then.... |
| 15:25.40 | Sup3rkiddo | thank you for clearing my doubts..:D |
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| 15:55.43 | MuffY | O_o |
| 15:55.54 | MuffY | there are more people here than in #ubuntu-offtopic |
| 15:56.54 | MuffY | so, just a question |
| 15:56.55 | Rince | who cares about ubuntu? |
| 15:56.59 | MuffY | =p |
| 15:57.03 | MuffY | er, me? |
| 15:57.04 | aloril | MuffY: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:57.07 | pH5 | this is #openmoko and #openmoko-offtopic combined |
| 15:57.14 | MuffY | and there are nice people in it =) |
| 15:59.01 | MuffY | anyways, I wanted to know If you could do some light developing on the P1+ version (akin can you use the hackers lunchbox with the P1+ device?) |
| 15:59.13 | MuffY | Or is that still unknown |
| 16:01.11 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2296 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-dialer.c: openmoko-dialer: add text to delete/history/dial buttons |
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| 16:02.13 | MuffY | from what the FAQ says, I understand that the P1+ will have the same hardware as the P2, but the software isn't perfect yet in the P1+ device. |
| 16:02.54 | MuffY | But the 1+ device will ship somewhat sooner (right?), so I think I'll be confortable with the 1+ version |
| 16:05.56 | mickey|fic | ya |
| 16:06.50 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 16:07.47 | MuffY | so the hacker lunchbox will work with the P1+ - P2 devices? |
| 16:08.31 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 16:09.19 | MuffY | yay =) |
| 16:09.29 | MuffY | still some months left =( |
| 16:09.36 | don-o | id be happy with a P1. |
| 16:10.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 16:11.05 | MuffY | As I'm not that much of a programmer, the P1 wouldn't be for me, especially when I know there will be a version with pimped hardware. |
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| 16:12.12 | don-o | MuffY: since ive been waiting for the P1 since March, i'll take whatever they come up with first. |
| 16:13.03 | MuffY | don-o: ah, luckily I've known about this for two weeks or so, so at the time the waiting becomes unbearable, the P1+ will (hopefully) be out =p |
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| 16:23.24 | MuffY | are those shirts for sale? >> http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery/v/openmoko/IMG_8406.JPG.html |
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| 16:27.47 | pH5 | MuffY: http://www.spreadshirt.net/shop.php?sid=211795 |
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| 16:37.46 | don-o | MuffY: good call! cool shirt. |
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| 16:38.25 | don-o | pH5: those are close but not the same shirt |
| 16:38.52 | kiney_ | counter |
| 16:38.53 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: a day 21:40:33 (1.903±1.9 days) (1506;232) |
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| 16:42.07 | don-o | kiney_: the counter bot has been shot. it was useless. |
| 16:42.24 | don-o | kiney_: the only thing it predicted was when the counter would be reset. |
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| 16:43.09 | don-o | the community mailing list seems to be the best source of information. |
| 16:44.54 | pjz | irc is good too |
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| 16:47.14 | Rince | *nod* |
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| 16:50.34 | guaqua | any finns interested in ordering a bunch of openmoko t-shirts? |
| 16:51.14 | _alphaone | don-o: No, those are the same |
| 16:51.16 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, i now have finished wrapping up libgsmd.. would like to know your progress with python-openmoko to prevent duplication..thank you |
| 16:51.21 | _alphaone | I should know |
| 16:51.50 | guaqua | if we could order more than two we could save in shipping costs |
| 16:53.21 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: waiting to be able to commit ~four month old code :) |
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| 16:54.52 | guaqua | the situation with the svn is bad |
| 16:55.01 | guaqua | and it's making development harder |
| 16:55.17 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, :), now dont kick me or shoot me or something...but dependence on pygtk for libgsmd which doesnt use any gtk seems rather weird...sorry for bringing this up again...:P |
| 16:55.18 | guaqua | i can get an svn running elsewhere if that's needed...or someone else |
| 16:55.43 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: why do you depend on Gtk? |
| 16:55.59 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: as you link to limbmokoui (let me guess?) |
| 16:56.32 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, no...but isnt pygobject a part of pygtk? |
| 16:57.13 | don-o | _alphaone: the shirt in the photo has a large logo and 'open moko' on the back. the shirt on the e-store has "free your phone" on the back with no logo |
| 16:57.34 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: it depends on how you package things |
| 16:57.49 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: http://packages.ubuntu.com/feisty/python/python-gobject has no dep on any X11 lib |
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| 16:58.53 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: so does angstrom (http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=python-pygobject) |
| 16:58.54 | _alphaone | don-o: There's more than one shirt in the shop. And I am wearing a poloshirt, not a t-shirt there |
| 16:59.04 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, oh ok..then my gentoo box is having pygobject.h under pygtk-2.0, so I thought it came as a part of pygtk...am still reading and understanding that ross tutorial |
| 16:59.06 | zecke | and OE/LTG needs a second server badly :} |
| 16:59.42 | don-o | _alphaone: ah its on page 2 of the store. thanks. |
| 16:59.51 | _alphaone | don-o: np |
| 17:00.30 | Elrond | don-o - It can be assumed, that the neo comes in white/orange also. |
| 17:00.58 | don-o | Elrond: i mean the tshirt :) |
| 17:01.27 | Elrond | Oh, okay. I don't care for tshirts. ;-) |
| 17:01.36 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, oh....ok nice then...all i did was create the .override and .defs and replaced all instances of openmokoui from your code to openmokogsmd...:P, will it work? |
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| 17:02.29 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: well, only minor things will fail but give it a try |
| 17:02.51 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, okie dokie |
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| 17:06.56 | SpeedEvil | Where is the nslu channel? |
| 17:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko phed (n=phed@obg2.rits.idcomnet.no) |
| 17:09.48 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - BTW: Do you have some docs on how important the doppler shifts are? (for catching sats at all; they're more important for calcing positions.) |
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| 17:10.52 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, i really dont think i can remove the pygtk dependency out, since we will be most likely use the pygtk-codegen, what you say we keep pygobject away from libgsmd *only*.. |
| 17:11.08 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: dejavu? |
| 17:11.23 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: e.g. this is why there is a difference between DEPENDS and RDEPENDS in OE |
| 17:11.45 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: right, you might need a tool called pygtk-codegen when compiling, you don't need it at runtime |
| 17:12.03 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: but one will have gtk anyway when building OpenMoko |
| 17:13.03 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, hmm..what if in the future, there is no gtk...some other project might use libgsmd...i really feel gtk dependency is an overkill.. |
| 17:13.15 | Sup3rkiddo | *no gtk in openmoko..that is |
| 17:13.49 | Elrond | Is it _py_gtk-codegen, or gtk-codegen? |
| 17:14.09 | Sup3rkiddo | er..py_gtk_codegen..sorry |
| 17:14.27 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: Well - it all depends... |
| 17:14.49 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: with the traditional method of tracking - quite, as you only have one correlator. |
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| 17:15.34 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: with the massively parallel ones, it gets more complex - I think you should see a signal at any doppler. |
| 17:15.45 | Sup3rkiddo | of course i am talking with regards to libgsmd although i understand the choice of GObjects for the other modules, viz, ui, core ..etc.. |
| 17:15.55 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: well, OpenMoko uses Gtk+. We target Gtk+ devs to do app development and porting. And even in two years when everybody is using FLTK using GObject is sane |
| 17:16.02 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Just the correlation function will be broader? |
| 17:16.15 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: it will of course 'move' along the correlator bin over time if it's not synced. |
| 17:16.30 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: make up your mind if Gtk+ or Gobject is your 'enenmy' and then stick to it |
| 17:16.43 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: I don't know how it'll work - if you are supposed to tell the correlator chip the doppler that you want it to look at to sharpen things up. |
| 17:16.49 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: randomly exchanging GObject with Gtk+ and Gdk, GFooBar doesn't bring this discussion very far |
| 17:16.55 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: or if you're supposed to correct it in software. |
| 17:17.28 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - The setup packet is quite long. It might well contain doppler corrections. |
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| 17:17.37 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: IIRC the GPS satellites move at most 2Km/s towards or away from you. So that's 2 parts in 300000, or 1/150000 maximum doppler. |
| 17:18.05 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: so it'll move slowly enough that correlating over one PRN period won't be much affected. |
| 17:18.36 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 17:19.04 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. The phase shift is what per millisecond then... |
| 17:19.10 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, i would rather interface with libgsmd api directly, since by doing so the use of say pygsmd can be expanded to a much broader audience..not just GTK+ devs |
| 17:19.31 | SpeedEvil | 8ns or so? |
| 17:20.36 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: by losing all Gtk+ devs already knowing GObject? Or do you want to create a new object orientated wrapper for C with a semantic different from GObject? |
| 17:20.39 | SpeedEvil | That's too much for tracking the carrier phase, but fine for anything else it looks like. |
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| 17:21.58 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: see. a device will use dbus, obex, bluez, eds all making libglib installed, libgobject adds nothing |
| 17:22.27 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, I'll be happy, if I can find sats at all. ;o) |
| 17:22.52 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: so you can decide between a sane and consistent API (even for non Gtk+ users), or creating something yourself, not as easy to use as GObject with extra costs (your development time and installation size) because you want to reimplement the wheel |
| 17:23.36 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2297 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/mokofingerbutton: theme: fix mokofingerbutton-white |
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| 17:24.03 | Sup3rkiddo | zecke, hmm...i understand...but the thought of pygtk-codegen in something that isnt remotely connected to it seems weird..thats all..i do understand the consistency part |
| 17:24.24 | Sup3rkiddo | of using GObject that is |
| 17:25.22 | zecke | Sup3rkiddo: it is a build time dependency, every desktop distro you can name will have pygobject packages and the required tools |
| 17:25.37 | Elrond | Sup3rkiddo - Is it _py_gtk-codegen, or gtk-codegen? |
| 17:25.57 | ronny | yo |
| 17:26.13 | Sup3rkiddo | Elrond, pygtk-codegen |
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| 17:26.47 | Elrond | Well, still. :-) |
| 17:27.02 | Elrond | Coukd the final dist-tatball contain the pre-generated stuff? |
| 17:27.59 | Sup3rkiddo | you mean source tarball?... |
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| 17:28.11 | zecke | (one shouldn't do that...) |
| 17:28.12 | Elrond | Right. |
| 17:29.13 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2298 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-contact-pane.c): |
| 17:29.13 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (make_widget): Add a button for telephone |
| 17:29.13 | CIA-24 | openmoko: fields that can be used to launch the dialer |
| 17:29.27 | Elrond | But anyway: Build dependencies are fine. They just represent "developer like x,y,z". |
| 17:29.41 | Elrond | Like bitbake. |
| 17:30.36 | Sup3rkiddo | hmm...i seem to get it now only now :).. |
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| 18:10.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 18:37.36 | Elrond | counter |
| 18:37.37 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: a day 20:41:11 (1.862±1.9 days) (1507;232) |
| 18:37.56 | Elrond | "a day" is very optimistic... you could merge just now. |
| 18:38.55 | Elrond | ph5 - Did you get any idea, when/how gllin decides that a sat is not there? (and jumps to searching another one) |
| 18:38.58 | aloril2 | its 3.8 days actually for upper limit, but yeah |
| 18:39.38 | pH5 | Elrond: no :( I was hoping you would figure that out :) |
| 18:39.51 | aloril2 | its just more practical tomorrow when I'm not on mobile phone ;-) |
| 18:41.17 | Elrond | aloril2 - :-) |
| 18:41.46 | Elrond | pH5 - I'm still trying. At least I found one other "byte"'s meaning in cmd00. ;-) |
| 18:42.08 | pH5 | Elrond: awesome. what is it? |
| 18:42.46 | Elrond | The L for the upcoming 23 packet. |
| 18:43.01 | Elrond | (You probably noticed, that 23 can be longer and shorter. |
| 18:43.16 | Elrond | cmd00 tells the chip, how long you want the 23 answer. |
| 18:43.36 | pH5 | yup, also in the beginning 23 are returned just like that whereas later it sends the cmd 23 and gets a 23 packet in return |
| 18:43.49 | pH5 | ah |
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| 18:44.13 | Morglet | Rasterman++. :-) |
| 18:45.20 | Elrond | Morglet - ... the Morgaine?! |
| 18:45.49 | Morglet | Elrond: hi again. It's been a few months. :-) How's things? |
| 18:45.49 | aloril | Morglet: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 18:47.32 | Elrond | *lol* |
| 18:47.38 | Morglet | LOL, no need for the automation, it's me. :-) I only popped in because I heard that Rasterman may be giving OM's GUI a push. That would be "interesting". :-) |
| 18:48.02 | Elrond | Morglet - Fine, except I should do some real work instead of starring at funny bytestreams. ;-) |
| 18:48.09 | Elrond | Morglet - How's life for you? |
| 18:48.16 | Morglet | Elrond: haha |
| 18:48.32 | Elrond | Morglet - BTW: Nice to see you back. I had stopped to hope to see you again. |
| 18:48.55 | Morglet | Well, funny bytestreams is what passes for existence these days. I'm happy with that. :p |
| 18:49.40 | Elrond | Well, I'm trying to reverse engeneer those bytestreams. ;) |
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| 18:52.55 | Morglet | I mostly hear from Phase 1 peeps directly, so don't pop in much here. But OM is still the bee's knees, and I'll get rid of my original 9210 Nokia Communicator as soon as I can. :P |
| 18:54.04 | Elrond | hehe. ;-) |
| 18:54.14 | Elrond | I have a P0 now here. ;o) |
| 18:55.28 | thomasg_ | gimme! |
| 18:55.32 | aloril2 | Elrond: how long does it take for hello world pygtk and gtk apps to start? |
| 18:55.41 | thomasg_ | is the softwarer still so slow or is it better now? |
| 18:57.17 | nox-Hand | counter |
| 18:57.17 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: a day 20:31:21 (1.855±1.9 days) (1508;232) |
| 18:57.26 | nox-Hand | Ooh |
| 18:57.30 | nox-Hand | a day 20:31:21 |
| 18:57.32 | nox-Hand | \o/ |
| 18:57.49 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03alphaone * r2299 10/trunk/oe/packages/libxosd/files/use-sane-default-font.patch: * Fix so patch applies cleanly onto latest svn |
| 18:58.28 | aloril2 | nox-Hand: unlikely this fast |
| 18:58.57 | Elrond | thomasg_ - It's still slowish. But I don't have the latest builds on it anyway. |
| 18:59.33 | Elrond | aloril2 - I don't have pygtk yet on the phone. I only have plain python on it and use it to toy with the hammerhead. |
| 19:00.29 | thomasg_ | I want to have P2 :) |
| 19:00.40 | nox-Hand | thomasg_: Agreed :D |
| 19:00.45 | aloril2 | Elrond: OK |
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| 19:00.51 | nox-Hand | aloril2: I don't expect it to ;) |
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| 19:12.21 | Elrond | pH5 - Could you verify something for me, to make sure, I'm not just seeing ghosts? |
| 19:14.41 | pH5 | Elrond: yes |
| 19:14.58 | Elrond | pH5 - You only need your logs. :-) |
| 19:15.56 | Elrond | pH5 - I think, byte 7-8 on received packet 10 (second 16bit word in the second 32bit part) is the maximum of the 16bit integers in packet 23. |
| 19:15.58 | pH5 | very good, looks like the battery is dead anyway. |
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| 19:18.10 | Elrond | Example: |
| 19:18.13 | high-rez | counter |
| 19:18.14 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: a day 20:20:53 (1.848±1.8 days) (1509;232) |
| 19:18.30 | pH5 | RECV L 03 CH 1 FL 4 CMD 10: 28 01 00 40 8e 02 bd 05 00 00 9f 0f 72 05 00 00 |
| 19:18.30 | pH5 | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.31 | Elrond | RECV L 03 CH 8 FL 4 CMD 10: 28 01 00 c0 4f 02 ff 0f 00 00 af 08 72 05 00 00 |
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| 19:19.50 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
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| 19:21.16 | Elrond | In your case: |
| 19:21.16 | Elrond | RECV L 03 CH 1 FL 4 CMD 10: 28 01 00 40 8e 02 bd 05 00 00 9f 0f 72 05 00 00 |
| 19:21.16 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:21.17 | pH5 | Elrond: circumstancial evidence points towards it. did you write a script to check if it holds true for all 10/23 combinations? |
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| 19:33.32 | pH5 | Elrond: didn't you say you have a decoder written in python now? |
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| 19:33.35 | SpeedEvil | I think it's more a bit-banger than a decoder |
| 19:33.36 | SpeedEvil | It's more to play with the hardware in a controlled manner, rather than a decoder as such. |
| 19:33.36 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
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| 19:35.17 | pH5 | I guess we should write something that is easily extensible to parse known packets. Looking at those raw bytestreams hurts my eyes. |
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| 19:38.33 | noidd | man, I just can't get this phone to reliably turn on |
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| 19:53.25 | kiney | counter |
| 19:53.25 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: a day 20:03:17 (1.836±1.8 days) (1510;232) |
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| 20:03.53 | Elrond | pH5 - I have some ideas on writing a decoder, yes. But what I currently only have is a "packet extractor". That is, it gets a big blob and cuts it into packets. Then dumps those. Basicly, what your decode.sh does. |
| 20:05.41 | Elrond | I start to think, we really should get some repos somewhere. |
| 20:05.44 | pH5 | Elrond: great. would you mind sending me a copy? Or do we have a SCM set up yet? |
| 20:05.53 | pH5 | heh, what you said :) |
| 20:06.04 | Elrond | No, we don't have an SCM yet. |
| 20:06.31 | Elrond | You already have an account on linuxtogo, it seems. Is the SCM there okay? |
| 20:06.37 | Elrond | ... or where should we go? |
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| 20:10.24 | pH5 | linuxtogo only supports cvs and svn currently |
| 20:10.53 | Elrond | Well, svn is probably okay. |
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| 20:11.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 20:11.45 | Elrond | Except for sf.net (which I don't want; personal thing), I don't have any preferences. |
| 20:26.36 | pH5 | Elrond: fine with me, shall I request a project at ltg.org? |
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| 20:26.57 | pH5 | If so, please propose nice and descriptive name. Because I would vote for "sphyrna" |
| 20:27.07 | pH5 | s/nice/a nice/ |
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| 20:39.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2300 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (12 files in 3 dirs): Add missing files (thanks to Nesquick for reporting). |
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| 21:16.31 | ph|ber | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TPhone-Screen-3-5-Mp3-Mp4-double-SIMcardin-Unlock_W0QQitemZ330133156531QQcmdZViewItem |
| 21:16.34 | ph|ber | whoaho |
| 21:16.45 | ph|ber | hehe |
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| 21:31.50 | Elrond | pH5 - (back from RL) What does sphyrna stand for? |
| 21:33.20 | pH5 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sphyrna |
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| 21:40.18 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 21:41.14 | Elrond | Okay, I think, that's nice. :-) |
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| 21:52.16 | high-rez | counter |
| 21:52.16 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 30% for P1: a day 19:03:52 (1.794±1.8 days) (1511;232) |
| 21:52.17 | high-rez | #!@ |
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| 21:58.15 | CoreDump|home | hi |
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| 22:10.03 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
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| 22:20.54 | LuitvD | 'night |
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