| 00:06.45 | Elrond | Anyone a nice webpage, where I can put gps coords and it tells me visible SVs? |
| 00:07.01 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hammerhead_protocol]] |
| 00:07.11 | Elrond | s/visible // superflous. |
| 00:10.16 | cjb | so, I have one of these P1 things. Should I use dfu or uboot to upgrade to a latest build, and can anyone recommend one, and should I upgrade uboot or just the NAND image and kernel? |
| 00:10.54 | Elrond | cjb - What exactly do you want to do? |
| 00:11.15 | cjb | get an image where making calls has a slight chance of working :) |
| 00:11.51 | Elrond | Ahh. Don't update u-boot then. P1 should have a reasonable u-boot. |
| 00:12.00 | cjb | ok |
| 00:12.06 | balrog-kun | in my experience current images are not better at making calls than the ones shipped with P1, but they have a chance of working |
| 00:12.26 | cjb | if I do dfu, can I send a file over USB? I'd rather not use SD. |
| 00:12.39 | cjb | that would be a reason for me to do dfu upgrade over uboot. |
| 00:12.39 | Elrond | DFU is exactly for that. |
| 00:12.50 | cjb | great. |
| 00:13.05 | balrog-kun | cjb: DFU is a part of USB standar :) |
| 00:13.07 | Elrond | cjb - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 00:13.20 | Elrond | (skip the u-boot part!) |
| 00:13.58 | balrog-kun | personally i'd upgrade u-boot too, after seeing that kernel flashes correctly |
| 00:14.07 | balrog-kun | and upgrade rootfs after u-boot |
| 00:15.03 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Well, I'm only upgrading u-boot to versions, that are tested. I don't have a debug board. |
| 00:16.21 | cjb | hm, the latest buildhost uImage is older than the latest zImage. What's the difference? |
| 00:16.37 | Elrond | cjb - Let me look. |
| 00:17.06 | balrog-kun | the u-boot build 2134 works for at least one person (me) |
| 00:17.39 | balrog-kun | err, wrong |
| 00:17.46 | balrog-kun | :p this is 2238 |
| 00:18.16 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-180-104.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:18.20 | Elrond | cjb - *arg* The images are again b0rked up. Don't upgrade. |
| 00:18.45 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: how did you get dfu speed to increase - it currently takes a number of hours to reflash my P1 by dfu, whereas on P0 it took minutes. |
| 00:18.46 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Well, on P1. I have P0. ;) |
| 00:19.00 | KragenSitaker | yay there are P1s |
| 00:19.03 | Elrond | rwhitby - Update u-boot. |
| 00:19.19 | Elrond | rwhitby - It has been fixed lately. |
| 00:19.26 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: hours? i think it took about 30 minutes even with the slow version of u-boot |
| 00:19.37 | Elrond | rwhitby - Of course the usual u-boot-precautions apply. ;-) |
| 00:19.38 | rwhitby | is dfu of u-boot safe these days? |
| 00:19.56 | balrog-kun | but, yes, current u-boot takes like 5 minutes for me to flash the rootfs |
| 00:20.49 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: 2238 recent enough for u-boot? |
| 00:20.59 | Elrond | rwhitby - Well, there are still nand erasing issues with rootfs via dfu. :-| |
| 00:21.00 | rwhitby | oh, yes, you already said that :-) |
| 00:21.19 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: yes, this is the version that takes about 5 minutes here when i flashed the rootfs using it |
| 00:22.55 | rwhitby | ok, now to reset the neo (with is 15km away) via a serial controlled relay and dfu download to it from the nslu2 sitting next to it ... |
| 00:23.44 | Elrond | rwhitby - Is it connected to the debug too? |
| 00:23.52 | balrog-kun | Elrond: i also don't have a debug board but i have seen several HOWTOs for building JTAG connectors at home |
| 00:24.18 | rwhitby | Elrond: yes - I have serial control of the reset switch on the debug board |
| 00:24.28 | rwhitby | (remote serial control) |
| 00:24.35 | Elrond | rwhitby - Ahh. |
| 00:24.54 | rwhitby | so I can reset, then minicom to ACM0 to stop the boot, then dfu |
| 00:25.16 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Hmmm... with the pin layout of the fic-proprietary jtag port on the phone... you could be lucky. ;-) |
| 00:25.48 | cjb | Elrond: Crap. I just did upgrade :) |
| 00:25.51 | Elrond | rwhitby - ssh'ing into phone and doing "reboot" should also get you to reboot, then miniocom. |
| 00:25.56 | cjb | Elrond: but only uImage/rootfs |
| 00:26.11 | Elrond | cjb - The modules might not match 100% ;o) |
| 00:26.11 | cjb | how are they borked? |
| 00:26.16 | cjb | d'oh. |
| 00:26.21 | rwhitby | Elrond: yeah, but the reset switch on the debug board works even if the kernel or u-boot is borked :-) |
| 00:26.34 | Elrond | rwhitby - Ahh :) |
| 00:26.34 | cjb | what's the deal with a separate modules tarball, anyway? why? |
| 00:27.04 | Elrond | This is just for convenience. ;-) |
| 00:27.56 | balrog-kun | i think they started installing some basic modules into the rootfs by default now? |
| 00:28.27 | balrog-kun | i may be wrong but i've seen the audio modules being loaded in qemu somehow, and i never installed the modules tarball into qemu |
| 00:28.28 | Elrond | balrog-kun - They did. But most likely they just again do not match with the latest uImage. ;-) |
| 00:28.37 | balrog-kun | Elrond: ah i see :) |
| 00:29.02 | Elrond | balrog-kun - They will still load, just the svn-rev will be wrong. |
| 00:29.26 | cjb | bah, kernel panic. |
| 00:29.49 | balrog-kun | with the 2134 uImage build, the audio seemed to work in qemu |
| 00:30.06 | cjb | No init found. Do I need the modules to be able to boot or something? |
| 00:30.09 | Elrond | balrog-kun - ipkg list_installed | grep module |
| 00:30.21 | Elrond | cjb - In theory not. |
| 00:30.39 | Elrond | cjb - Did you really flash the rootfs? |
| 00:30.39 | cjb | Any idea why it wouldn't be able to find /sbin/init? |
| 00:30.47 | balrog-kun | cjb: nope, means that rootfs didn't somehow make it way into the right partition |
| 00:30.52 | cjb | % sudo ./dfu-util -a 5 -R -D ./openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070612040932.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 00:30.59 | cjb | Starting download: [##################################################] finished! |
| 00:30.59 | cjb | state(2) = dfuIDLE, status(0) = No error condition is present |
| 00:31.17 | cjb | Found Runtime: [0x1457:0x5119] devnum=15, cfg=0, intf=0, alt=5, name="rootfs" |
| 00:31.25 | balrog-kun | this looks correct |
| 00:31.34 | balrog-kun | cjb: did you flash uImage first or second? |
| 00:31.41 | cjb | first |
| 00:31.48 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Shouldn't make a difference. |
| 00:31.58 | balrog-kun | okay, then that should be a problem |
| 00:32.14 | balrog-kun | Elrond: theoretically it shouldn't, but there's a small chance it would if uImage was written second |
| 00:32.29 | Elrond | balrog-kun - yuck. |
| 00:33.11 | balrog-kun | oops s/should/shouldn't/ |
| 00:33.30 | cjb | perhaps this jffs2 image is broken. any recent known good? |
| 00:34.25 | balrog-kun | cjb: the 20070609142537 works for me on the Neo |
| 00:34.44 | balrog-kun | cjb: but the one you used works for me in qemu, i'm pretty sure it is also okay |
| 00:36.00 | cjb | huh, |
| 00:36.03 | Elrond | cjb - I never was brave enoug to do a "nand erase rootfs" before the dfu... but it might help. |
| 00:36.10 | balrog-kun | hmm, 20070609142537 is not on the buildhost, i wonder if it has been removed? |
| 00:37.44 | Elrond | Good night people. |
| 00:37.45 | cjb | if I set console to usb, will that give me kernel boot messages over usbserial? |
| 00:38.02 | cjb | (the uboot Set console to USB, that is.) |
| 00:38.08 | balrog-kun | cjb: no, it won't |
| 00:38.25 | cjb | curses. makes sense, I guess. |
| 00:38.25 | nox-Hand | Life? =) |
| 00:38.42 | cjb | I was wondering if uboot might do something funky like emulate a serial port for it. |
| 00:38.57 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@32.235.125.209.transedge.com) |
| 00:39.25 | balrog-kun | that would assume u-boot is still running during the kernel initialisation |
| 00:40.18 | balrog-kun | hmm you could probably make a serial driver for linux that writes the output to SD or nand |
| 00:40.50 | cjb | or hack u-boot to be persistent :) |
| 00:41.02 | cjb | yeah, we're working on an SD serial card for OLPC |
| 00:41.24 | stefan_schmidt | Better hack up the usb gadget serial driver for this. Makes it usable on other systems too |
| 00:41.33 | balrog-kun | u-boot can't do multitasking because it can't even handle interrupts :p |
| 00:41.37 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: which? |
| 00:41.59 | cjb | balrog-kun: neither does open firmware, and OLPC keeps that resident |
| 00:42.30 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: The linux usb gadget serial driver |
| 00:42.35 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-142-235.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 00:42.40 | balrog-kun | apart from the fact that Linux boot specification for ARM explicitely says that interrupts must be diabled and the cpu must be in USR32 mode when control is passed to the zImage |
| 00:42.40 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (i=andreas@091-141-064-182.dyn.one.at) |
| 00:43.04 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: /usr/src/linux/drivers/usb/gadget/serial.c |
| 00:43.06 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: I mean, to achieve which of the things we were talking about? |
| 00:43.21 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: having uboot emulate serial, or the SD stuff? |
| 00:43.38 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: ah :) Early serial output over usb that is |
| 00:44.04 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: yeah, I'd enjoy doing that. do you think it would work? |
| 00:44.47 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: It should. Need to make sure usb is ready early. |
| 00:45.30 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: But I never though that much about it. |
| 00:46.52 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: Is early serial access the only reason for the SD->serial card for OLPC? |
| 00:47.27 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: yes; we could use usb-serial otherwise. |
| 00:48.39 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: That'S the point. You never though about the idea of the early usb gadget driver? I mean making new hardware is _way_ harder then hacking a driver |
| 00:49.47 | rwhitby | stefan_schmidt: gadget requires usb device hardware, right? (thinking about whether this would help nslu2 early serial access) |
| 00:49.58 | rwhitby | (nslu2 only has host usb) |
| 00:50.12 | stefan_schmidt | rwhitby: yes, gadget is usb device |
| 00:50.24 | *** join/#openmoko Linux_Galore (n=logan1@60-242-20-212.static.tpgi.com.au) |
| 00:50.33 | Linux_Galore | hai folks |
| 00:50.46 | Linux_Galore | funny iPhone parody http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MRlASCZ6hx0 |
| 00:51.02 | stefan_schmidt | hi Linux_Galore |
| 00:52.34 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: BTW; i still have hope to be able buying a OLPC in europe within the next two years. My god child gets older every day and if not OLPC I need to get her an classmate pc or something similar. ;) |
| 00:52.44 | Linux_Galore | although the one with a pretty girl is nicer http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o1A_h6Iwyrk&mode=related&search= |
| 00:53.50 | Linux_Galore | stefan_schmidt: actually just about every PC maker now has a small form factor entry level PC project, some make the OLPC & Classmate look pretty basic |
| 00:54.32 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: I don't have any inside knowledge, but I hope that'll happen too. |
| 00:54.49 | cjb | Linux_Galore: I bet they don't have sunlight readable screens, human power or mesh networking.. |
| 00:54.58 | stefan_schmidt | Linux_Galore: The point is that I like to support the right thing (TM) |
| 00:56.56 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: yeah, I will wait and drink tea. I it does not happen I get her one of our new secret OpenMoko products. ;) |
| 00:57.51 | cjb | Elrond: nand erase rootfs and re-dfu worked. |
| 00:58.03 | Linux_Galore | cjb: they all run Linux without any issues as far as I can see and have wifi so they can run all the same software as the OLPC |
| 00:58.36 | stefan_schmidt | Linux_Galore: cjb talked about hardware features... |
| 00:58.36 | Linux_Galore | asus eee (easy) small form factor laptop -> http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2007/06/asus_eee_pc_gets_pricing_and_r.html |
| 00:59.03 | Linux_Galore | stefan_schmidt: the ere is nothing really that spectacular about the OLPC hardware |
| 00:59.53 | stefan_schmidt | Linux_Galore: Sunlight readable display and wifi hardware with firmware mesh support is not bad, or? |
| 01:00.31 | Linux_Galore | stefan_schmidt: sunlight readable LCD's with poor colour reproduction isnt exactly what I call steller |
| 01:00.52 | Linux_Galore | stefan_schmidt: the mesh thing is just a wifi app |
| 01:00.56 | cjb | Linux_Galore: the asus laptop's CPU has no cache (!). |
| 01:01.26 | stefan_schmidt | Linux_Galore: a wifi app in the firmware running without CPU running |
| 01:01.56 | stefan_schmidt | Linux_Galore: And the display is a matter of taste. I like the idea about color and b/w in one. |
| 01:01.57 | cjb | there's also the olpc suspend stuff, with the screen and wireless staying on while the cpu is off |
| 01:02.06 | cjb | which gives us tens of hours of battery life. |
| 01:02.14 | cjb | compared to the classmate's 40W power supply. |
| 01:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko crackfiend (n=chatzill@adsl-69-225-134-216.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 01:02.36 | stefan_schmidt | I would not say that OLPC is the greatest stuff outside but they definitely have some nice ideas and features |
| 01:02.45 | Linux_Galore | dont get me wrong Im not saying the OLPC is rubbish but if you have a bit of $$$ look around first |
| 01:03.08 | balrog-kun | and the manufacture costs of OLPC hardware also beat most manufacturers |
| 01:03.40 | stefan_schmidt | Linux_Galore: I'm not interested how much it is but the idea behind it. :) |
| 01:04.08 | Linux_Galore | stefan_schmidt: Im fine with that but dont become blind to anothers idealism |
| 01:04.10 | mjr | I'll certainly buy a laptop from OLPC if they start selling to us better-off people too at some point |
| 01:04.32 | cjb | Linux_Galore: why does idealism have to be blind? :) |
| 01:04.55 | Linux_Galore | last I heard the people behind OLPC are looking at producing a comercial variant |
| 01:05.08 | cjb | yeah, no concrete plans yet. |
| 01:05.10 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: Never done. I heard a lot keynotes, read about it and spoke with cjb about his work :) |
| 01:05.50 | Linux_Galore | cjb: one word "stanalism " |
| 01:05.51 | stefan_schmidt | s/cjb/Linux_Galore/ |
| 01:06.41 | Linux_Galore | idealism can blind one from seeing reality |
| 01:07.56 | Linux_Galore | I love OSS to death but at the same time Im always aware of reality and try to balance my beliefs |
| 01:08.38 | cjb | you aren't balancing your beliefs: you have a *belief* that OSS is somehow incompatible with reality. |
| 01:08.47 | mjr | indeed |
| 01:08.48 | cjb | that's as much a belief as the idea that it isn't. |
| 01:09.02 | Linux_Galore | mjr: ah so you dont want to argue the point so you just attack the spelling, that makes you look better does it ? |
| 01:10.08 | mjr | certainly better than someone apparently trying to go for invoking Godwin |
| 01:10.17 | Linux_Galore | cjb: no following another beliefs without looking at reality is a dangerous path |
| 01:10.22 | Linux_Galore | anothers* |
| 01:10.25 | stefan_schmidt | *sigh*, why need we to discuss this here? |
| 01:10.39 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway, time for bed. Night all. |
| 01:11.51 | Linux_Galore | mjr: Im not invoking anyone, its just a comment |
| 01:12.01 | cjb | Linux_Galore: .. you're ignoring what I said. You assume that we aren't looking at reality; that is a belief you are following. |
| 01:12.33 | *** part/#openmoko mwester (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 01:12.35 | Linux_Galore | cjb: I dont assume anything its just a comment |
| 01:16.41 | Linux_Galore | mjr: aaah sorry I didnt make a spelling mistake to keep you amused, I must work harder |
| 01:16.59 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2283 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (s3c2410.c wm8753.c): Rewrite DMA queuing. Enhance buffering of audio data in WM8753. |
| 01:17.00 | cjb | mjr: or just not full of well-formed ideas yet. |
| 01:17.00 | mjr | actually, you're making them all the time |
| 01:17.05 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 01:17.19 | mjr | I just don't get into the habit of pointing out every last one |
| 01:17.43 | balrog-kun | roh: now with ultimate sound quality :-) |
| 01:18.01 | mjr | cjb, true, I suppose |
| 01:18.03 | balrog-kun | at least when using aplay (madplay is a bit slow) |
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| 01:24.52 | cjb | what's the easiest way to get modules.tgz onto the phone? I see there isn't enough disk space to copy it and then unpack. |
| 01:26.25 | balrog-kun | cjb: perhaps choosing only the ones you need and scp'ing |
| 01:26.40 | balrog-kun | cjb: i chose to use non-modular kernels |
| 01:28.01 | cjb | oh! how can I do that? |
| 01:28.04 | cjb | that sounds much more sensible. |
| 01:29.46 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1096745510.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:30.18 | balrog-kun | you compile the kernel using the patches from svn, or probably there's a way to get OE or MokoMakefile to do that for you |
| 01:30.34 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning1 (n=blueligh@222-155-141-79.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 01:30.36 | balrog-kun | you'll likely also need to enlarge the kernel partition in the NAND because it's only 2MB |
| 01:30.43 | cjb | I see. |
| 01:31.50 | balrog-kun | my current kernel is 2.8MB but it has debugging symbols |
| 01:32.23 | cjb | it would be pretty cool to put up a static kernel that was <2M. |
| 01:33.28 | balrog-kun | i already removed most of the exotic USB or Bt or other devices that the defconfig has enable "just in case" (some of them there's completely no way there will ever be used on the Neo) |
| 01:33.45 | balrog-kun | i mean, i disabled the drivers for those devices in my config |
| 01:34.06 | balrog-kun | also all the IP or IPv6 funky protocols and filters |
| 01:36.56 | cjb | odd that the uImage doesn't contain MMC, it's only 500K. |
| 01:37.11 | cjb | I guess it's easier to debug it as a module, or something? |
| 01:37.44 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: my dfu slowness must be the nslu2, cause even with that latest u-boot it's still taking a very long time to flash |
| 01:37.51 | balrog-kun | cjb: i don't know, i guess the person that made the defconfig went with the defaults |
| 01:37.54 | cjb | rwhitby: for me too |
| 01:38.23 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: in orders of hours? |
| 01:39.05 | cjb | balrog-kun: pullcord:cjb~/openmoko % history -D | grep dfu |
| 01:39.11 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:39.33 | cjb | (so, order ten minutes for 30M) |
| 01:39.42 | balrog-kun | cjb: that's not so bad i think |
| 01:40.08 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: it's taken one hour so far just for the kernel |
| 01:40.19 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: ouch |
| 01:40.34 | rwhitby | I wonder if it's the client side ... |
| 01:40.51 | Linux_Galore | jffs2 is pretty neat |
| 01:41.03 | rwhitby | (this is the first time I've used dfu-util since receiving the P1) |
| 01:41.11 | balrog-kun | i guess that would be the nslu2 then.. usb does strange things sometimes |
| 01:41.23 | cjb | jffs2 is pretty old :/ |
| 01:41.26 | rwhitby | Linux_Galore: squashfs+mini_fo jffs2 overlay is even better :-) |
| 01:41.36 | cjb | you need to read every inode every time you mount jffs2 |
| 01:41.50 | cjb | which is only a few seconds on moko, but for OLPC's 1G flash, it's more like fifteen seconds |
| 01:41.53 | balrog-kun | cjb: yeah, this is a pretty bad design |
| 01:41.58 | cjb | and you can't do it in the background |
| 01:42.20 | rwhitby | cjb: has olpc looked at squashfs+jffs2 overlay (mini_fo or unionfs)? |
| 01:42.27 | cjb | rwhitby: yes |
| 01:42.37 | cjb | rwhitby: we're probably going to just wait for logfs and use that |
| 01:42.41 | cjb | (logfs == jffs3) |
| 01:42.54 | balrog-kun | cjb: and it locks an amount of RAM proportional to the number of file on the whole os, for the whole time that until umount |
| 01:42.57 | cjb | rwhitby: but we're also leaving some unpartitioned space on our NAND to store the kernel, possibly |
| 01:43.04 | balrog-kun | s/os/fs/ |
| 01:43.07 | cjb | rwhitby: and then we can get to the kernel, at least, without this delay |
| 01:45.41 | cjb | how do I get the "+" symbol in the dialer? |
| 01:45.49 | rwhitby | cjb: sounds like you're turning it into an nslu2 flash layout :-) |
| 01:45.54 | Linux_Galore | is the logfs overhead worse of better than JFFS2 i wonder |
| 01:46.07 | cjb | Linux_Galore: massively better. |
| 01:46.12 | balrog-kun | Linux_Galore: it's supposed to be much better |
| 01:46.17 | cjb | Linux_Galore: takes 65ms to mount on OLPC, barely any RAM. |
| 01:46.35 | cjb | even the jffs2 author thinks it does the right thing :) |
| 01:46.40 | Linux_Galore | cjb: woth waiting for then |
| 01:46.59 | cjb | well, for olpc we don't have a choice; we have to ship in three months. |
| 01:47.05 | cjb | but for the next release, sure. |
| 01:47.10 | Linux_Galore | worth* |
| 01:48.06 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 01:48.19 | Linux_Galore | says on the above article JFFS has less overhead than logfs |
| 01:48.58 | Linux_Galore | logfs is more future proof though |
| 01:49.20 | cjb | CPU overhead, perhaps? |
| 01:49.59 | cjb | hm, still can't get a "+" out of the dialer. |
| 01:51.22 | balrog-kun | cjb: afaik + is only a shortcut for 00 in some mobile phones dialers |
| 01:51.27 | Linux_Galore | sorry I mean cpu overhead |
| 01:51.45 | cjb | balrog-kun: no, the number that + maps to is country-dependent. |
| 01:51.51 | balrog-kun | my phone doesn't have the + at all |
| 01:52.01 | cjb | it's the international code for "whatever prefix means dial internationally". |
| 01:52.08 | cjb | and that prefix changes country to country. |
| 01:52.10 | balrog-kun | cjb: ah i see |
| 01:52.52 | balrog-kun | cjb: then FIC would have to have figured out that local code for everyone they sent the P1 to |
| 01:53.26 | balrog-kun | i think there's currently no way for openmoko-dialer to know what country it is in |
| 01:53.54 | Linux_Galore | with laptops heading towards using flash based hardisks logfs will become very important to OSS |
| 01:55.51 | cjb | Linux_Galore: I agree. |
| 01:56.02 | cjb | balrog-kun: hm, yeah, perhaps so |
| 01:57.16 | balrog-kun | i hope logfs will have all the features that ext2/ext3/reiserfs absorbed over the years, if logfs is to be used on laptops |
| 01:58.25 | balrog-kun | but for me it looks like it's starting from the ground and the author is way too optimistic about things like debugging |
| 01:58.32 | cjb | balrog-kun: whoa, steady :) |
| 01:58.48 | cjb | balrog-kun: flash is *very* different to a hard disk. it has separate write/erase operations, etc. |
| 01:58.58 | cjb | you're never going to see a general purpose fs on there. |
| 01:59.28 | cjb | hm, speaker works but mic doesn't, for me. |
| 01:59.33 | cjb | is there something I need to do to set up mic? |
| 02:00.18 | balrog-kun | cjb: yeah, but on a device used as rootfs for a laptop i'd like to see all the features like ACL, in-place execution, journalling and other things that reiserfs has |
| 02:00.42 | balrog-kun | cryptoloop, volume managers support |
| 02:01.44 | balrog-kun | (okay, the in-place execution doesn't apply here) :p |
| 02:03.23 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@rrcs-24-106-187-29.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:04.04 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: + is part of GSM standard |
| 02:04.12 | rwhitby | it must be supported by all carriers |
| 02:04.30 | rwhitby | (specifically so the phone *doesn't* need to know the prefix for all countries) |
| 02:04.39 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: oh? can you issue "ATD+44xxxxxxx"? |
| 02:04.43 | rwhitby | yes |
| 02:04.55 | balrog-kun | i didn't know about that |
| 02:04.56 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime_ (n=chatzill@rrcs-24-106-187-29.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:06.23 | balrog-kun | my reasoning was that tone dialling has no frequency for a '+' |
| 02:06.33 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime__ (n=chatzill@rrcs-24-106-187-29.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 02:06.43 | balrog-kun | but obviously there's no reason to use tone dialling in GSM |
| 02:06.52 | roh | exactly |
| 02:07.08 | roh | gsm is more like isdn than like anything pots-like |
| 02:07.57 | roh | some equipment is supporting dtmf as feature, not because its needed ;) |
| 02:08.39 | balrog-kun | i see |
| 02:21.15 | cjb | neat, just got a call on openmoko :) |
| 02:21.22 | cjb | but sound didn't work, even though aplay works |
| 02:21.28 | cjb | any idea what's up with that? |
| 02:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-182-92-187.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 02:26.18 | *** join/#openmoko kiney (n=kiney@p54883326.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 02:29.55 | Linux_Galore | voice mail still needs dtmf |
| 02:29.56 | high-rez | counter |
| 02:29.57 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 16:45:01 (2.698±2.7 days) (1492;230) |
| 02:32.20 | cjb | sweet! this time I received the call and could hear the other person |
| 02:32.26 | cjb | but they couldn't hear me |
| 02:38.20 | cjb | anyone know how to get the mic working? |
| 02:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 02:47.24 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
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| 02:56.18 | NineTeen67Comet | I've been reading around, but can't see if OpenMoko will be available in Japan any time soon (I'm a Linux using American in Okinawa JP)... |
| 02:56.32 | cjb | NineTeen67Comet: yes, it will be sold worldwide, soon |
| 02:56.58 | *** join/#openmoko smark (n=mud@69.5.35.18) |
| 02:57.00 | cjb | d'oh; I reflashed my NAND, and apparently the binary-only gllin was on there. where do I get a replacement from? |
| 02:57.06 | NineTeen67Comet | Awesome, can't wait.. I'm pretty sick of my traditional phone, and do not wanna hang with an iPhone .. |
| 02:59.47 | *** part/#openmoko smark (n=mud@69.5.35.18) |
| 03:05.49 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-125-230-222.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 03:13.49 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|fic (n=mickey@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
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| 03:31.43 | nox-Hand | counter |
| 03:31.43 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 16:14:08 (2.676±2.7 days) (1493;230) |
| 03:31.46 | nox-Hand | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:51.10 | cjb | sweet, xrandr works fine |
| 03:58.22 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2284 10/trunk/oe/packages/libxosd/ (files/use-sane-default-font.patch libxosd_svn.bb): oe/libxosd: refresh patch |
| 04:09.44 | nox-Hand | cjb: Please clarify "has his screen rotated" |
| 04:10.25 | mickey|fic | landscape |
| 04:10.32 | mickey|fic | you can use xrandr to change the X server |
| 04:10.35 | mickey|fic | orientation |
| 04:10.39 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 04:10.43 | nox-Hand | Oh =] |
| 04:10.45 | mickey|fic | however, the theme is not yet well prepared for that |
| 04:10.52 | mickey|fic | so it looks kind of wrecked :) |
| 04:10.55 | nox-Hand | mickey|fic: Was just about to ask for that |
| 04:13.20 | mickey|fic | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/56329df942eab83c0db07dcdf252535c.png |
| 04:13.36 | mickey|fic | actually it looks quite good |
| 04:13.43 | mickey|fic | just the footer needs adjustment |
| 04:14.00 | mickey|fic | and the background image |
| 04:14.45 | nox-Hand | Copes fairly well |
| 04:15.14 | nox-Hand | Just the gradien image-based menu bars that need to conntinue at the end instead of suddenly starting at light |
| 04:15.30 | nox-Hand | (( goes from light silver to darker, but after buttons it returns to light )) |
| 04:16.48 | mickey|fic | yea |
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| 04:22.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2285 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/ (Makefile.am libmokoui.pro moko-ui.c): libmokoui: put ui convenience functions into moko-ui.c |
| 04:25.44 | Linux_Galore | mickey|fic: the second icon across seems to be out of place |
| 04:26.26 | Linux_Galore | all the icons are orange accept that one |
| 04:27.06 | Linux_Galore | other than that it looks pretty good |
| 04:28.30 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 04:29.42 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2286 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-ui.h: move... |
| 04:34.39 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-125-230-243.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 04:52.17 | cjb | mickey|fic: ping? |
| 04:52.51 | mickey|fic | pöng |
| 04:53.31 | cjb | heh :) |
| 04:54.35 | cjb | (sent a /msg.) |
| 04:57.44 | mickey|fic | oki |
| 04:58.00 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@168-103-68-55.hlrn.qwest.net) |
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| 06:31.21 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
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| 07:25.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2287 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: check pulseaudio context before issueing a play command |
| 07:35.09 | *** part/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@194.152.122.177) |
| 07:44.56 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:47.57 | nox-Hand | Hopscotch: Good day |
| 08:02.22 | nox-Hand | Oh dear.. it's 10am and I am about to doze off already :( |
| 08:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
| 08:11.36 | Hopscotch | hehe |
| 08:14.41 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (i=andreas@091-141-101-167.dyn.one.at) |
| 08:15.15 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. Accelerometer with phone in pocket might be usable as a doze alarm |
| 08:15.37 | SpeedEvil | Chest pocket of course |
| 08:23.25 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@ACB1BCA7.ipt.aol.com) |
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| 08:43.55 | nox-Hand | SpeedEvil: What if the phone got a call (if it got that thing where you flip the phone up to your ear and it answers call, what happens if you are out jogging whilst it calls I wonder? |
| 08:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko Herod2k (n=herod@82.84.47.27) |
| 08:51.06 | SpeedEvil | nox-Hand: Stationary - or more or less stationary, and moving after it starts ringing may be an option. |
| 08:51.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2288 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta02-core.patch: |
| 08:51.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * use correct 12MHz clock setting for GTA02 |
| 08:51.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * don't export platform devices globally, but mark them static |
| 08:51.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * temporarily 'fix' the bluetooth power platform device (ugly hack) |
| 08:51.45 | SpeedEvil | You can easily tell when the phone is picked up in the hand, turned over so it's face out if needed, then rotated in the arm up to the head |
| 08:51.56 | SpeedEvil | Quite distinctive I suspect |
| 08:52.34 | pH5 | yay, acceleration pattern recognition. |
| 08:52.37 | guaqua | maybe a distict shaking motion to answer a call? |
| 08:52.49 | pH5 | I wonder if you could make it count steps from the movement pattern in your pocket while jogging. |
| 08:52.55 | guaqua | regular acceleration expression interpretor? :D |
| 08:53.06 | guaqua | s/interpretor/interpreter/ |
| 08:54.28 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 08:55.08 | nox-Hand | SpeedEvil: Can't wait ;) |
| 08:55.21 | guaqua | i hope it works well though |
| 08:55.33 | guaqua | i.e. it doesn't break down easily |
| 08:57.09 | nox-Hand | guaqua: Don't you worry, for that price, you can just buy two and have a backup :D |
| 08:57.12 | nox-Hand | ;) |
| 08:57.16 | guaqua | haha |
| 08:57.30 | guaqua | double precision with two phones taped into one |
| 08:57.48 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 08:57.57 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 08:58.02 | nox-Hand | guaqua: :O |
| 08:58.02 | guaqua | or even implement a gps compass...fixed distance between and bluetooth communication between :) |
| 08:58.16 | guaqua | same here |
| 08:58.31 | guaqua | my current phone is breaking down a bit too fast at the moment... |
| 08:59.08 | guaqua | i'd like to know about the discounts to determine if i can afford a P1 :/ |
| 08:59.18 | nox-Hand | guaqua: I have a Sony Ericsson W810i which works fine apart from RANDOM reboots :( |
| 08:59.39 | nox-Hand | guaqua: The discount work something like this: |
| 08:59.44 | nox-Hand | You buy a phone for 350 dollars |
| 09:00.01 | nox-Hand | Then when the V2 comes out, you can plausibly buy that one cheaper |
| 09:00.06 | nox-Hand | The first one is regular price |
| 09:00.11 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 09:00.13 | guaqua | yeah, i know... |
| 09:00.21 | nox-Hand | Right =) |
| 09:01.06 | nox-Hand | guaqua: Though having two would be incredible :P |
| 09:03.08 | guaqua | wlan and more processing power & more ram to get python working properly are the two main things i'm after in P2 |
| 09:03.36 | SpeedEvil | I don't think there is more RAM |
| 09:03.47 | SpeedEvil | More flash, yes. |
| 09:04.09 | SpeedEvil | 128M should be plenty IMO. |
| 09:04.11 | guaqua | okay...the flash isn't such an issue |
| 09:04.17 | SpeedEvil | I've got 128M at the moment. |
| 09:04.34 | nox-Hand | SpeedEvil: You have a Neo1973? |
| 09:04.36 | guaqua | the processor however is an issue |
| 09:04.38 | SpeedEvil | 14 xterms open, and 30 odd firefox tabs in a couple of windows |
| 09:04.50 | SpeedEvil | nox-Hand: no - old laptop |
| 09:05.09 | nox-Hand | SpeedEvil: ;) |
| 09:05.27 | SpeedEvil | On the other hand, it's 1.1Kg, and has an uptime of 6-8 hours. |
| 09:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_laptop (n=ewanm89@host81-151-184-4.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 09:09.13 | nox-Hand | SpeedEvil: perfect |
| 09:18.17 | *** join/#openmoko Herod2k (n=herod@82.84.61.212) |
| 09:21.06 | nox-Hand | counter ! :D |
| 09:21.11 | nox-Hand | counter |
| 09:21.11 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 13:19:24 (2.555±2.6 days) (1494;230) |
| 09:24.34 | aloril2 | well, maybe new numbers are more realistic, I have been too optimistic (probably still too optimistic) |
| 09:25.34 | pH5 | rwhitby: are you underclocking your neo? |
| 09:27.50 | rwhitby | pH5: nope |
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| 09:57.25 | kiney | counter |
| 09:57.26 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 13:01:17 (2.543±2.5 days) (1495;230) |
| 10:07.22 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p5495194B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:07.51 | *** join/#openmoko phed_ (n=phed@obg2.rits.idcomnet.no) |
| 10:08.07 | phed_ | hi |
| 10:09.01 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 10:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_ (n=thomasg@p57AFE4C8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@gw1.panoulu.net) |
| 10:10.10 | phed_ | Just learnt about this project from my non techie brother. I am amazed that I havent learnt about this before |
| 10:10.14 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host166-57-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 10:10.30 | CM | phed_: You found it at the right time :) |
| 10:10.33 | phed_ | Ie. I have been a fan of the N-series phones because they don't take money for the SDK. But this is even better :) |
| 10:11.05 | phed_ | There was a very good norwegian article about it |
| 10:11.11 | CM | The Phase 1 dev-phones will probably be ready for ordering soon |
| 10:12.04 | phed_ | oh, nice. how many will be produced? |
| 10:12.05 | aloril | phed_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:14.36 | *** join/#openmoko maydaytx (i=johndoe@cpe-72-178-87-147.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 10:14.40 | CM | phed_: Also look at: http://planet.openmoko.org/ |
| 10:14.51 | phed_ | well, I'd love to do graphics programming on it since its been ages since computers were slow enough that coding software rendering was fun :) |
| 10:15.02 | CM | Hehe |
| 10:15.48 | *** join/#openmoko icman (n=icman@123-240-172-33.cctv.dynamic.lsc.net.tw) |
| 10:16.17 | phed_ | also, porting our synthesizis package to it (zzub) would be fun. it is damn fast, so it should be usable on the device. |
| 10:16.26 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 10:16.31 | phed_ | because making music on a touchscreen just must be fun :) |
| 10:16.53 | CM | phed_: I'm sure mickeyl would like that too :) |
| 10:16.55 | phed_ | thanks for the links |
| 10:17.32 | CM | The wiki is a good place to look, and hanging around here also |
| 10:17.34 | CM | counter |
| 10:17.34 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 12:51:12 (2.536±2.5 days) (1496;230) |
| 10:17.57 | CM | There's the latst rumours about the phone availability |
| 10:20.38 | phed_ | :D |
| 10:24.21 | tigert | you mean openmoko has a PHONE? :) |
| 10:24.33 | phed_ | ooo, the phase 0 phone included a guitar pick :D |
| 10:26.52 | *** join/#openmoko ewon (n=ewan@skynet.skynet.ie) |
| 10:27.33 | ewon | dear good God above, j2me gives me the rage. |
| 10:27.58 | ewon | bring on the openmoko, so I can write some decent god-damned software, in C, like God intended. |
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| 10:48.47 | buz | neat, 4gb microsdhc for 40E |
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| 10:52.14 | guaqua | we can beat ipod soon ;) |
| 10:52.39 | buz | i think 8G cards recently were announced |
| 10:53.55 | buz | then again there arent even 8G minisd yet |
| 10:54.37 | guaqua | :) |
| 10:55.59 | buz | http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=13040 |
| 10:57.46 | buz | announcing that it has managed to pack a full eight gigabytes into the microSD form factor for mid-2008 production |
| 10:57.49 | buz | ok that doesnt really help |
| 10:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 10:58.25 | *** join/#openmoko coryb (n=cory@208.75.98.239) |
| 10:59.41 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB36911.ipt.aol.com) |
| 11:12.39 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
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| 11:13.48 | phed_ | oh, if the phone can use sidmusic for dialphones it is a dream come true :D |
| 11:18.30 | buz | i wonder if neo is fast enough to decode 256kbit AAC? |
| 11:18.38 | buz | (i.e. drm free itunes stuff) |
| 11:18.48 | Kero | :) |
| 11:19.40 | buz | i guess it wouldnt hurt being able to say that you can use some well known music store with neo |
| 11:19.48 | Kero | for address books. add an mp3 title or something and read it from the xGB SD card.. |
| 11:20.19 | Kero | no more puny ringtones ! |
| 11:20.24 | buz | lol |
| 11:20.29 | mjr | one would think 256kbit AAC should be playable |
| 11:20.35 | buz | my nearly 4 year old phone can do that ;) |
| 11:20.51 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@238-222-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 11:21.28 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
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| 11:21.41 | Kero | 'course it can (mine can't, btw) |
| 11:23.15 | Kero | but does the openmoko addressbook dataformat carry a "play this song as 'ringtone'" entry ? |
| 11:23.49 | phed_ | buz: there is an mp3 music store that is legal, isnt it? |
| 11:24.02 | Kero | (and can I get to it from the app that receives the gsm-event?) |
| 11:24.07 | buz | magnatune but the selection is ridiculous |
| 11:24.21 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 11:24.39 | Kero | things I'll find out when I have a P1... (any day now? :) |
| 11:26.52 | nox-Hand | Kero: Plus shipping queue ;) |
| 11:27.19 | Kero | i know, i know... |
| 11:27.30 | nox-Hand | Kero: I would expect 2-3 weeks after ordering |
| 11:28.09 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-166-242.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 11:28.23 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-115-228.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 11:29.09 | nox-Hand | Kero: Shaddup, at least you are going to order one ;) |
| 11:29.34 | Kero | if I'm quick enough... |
| 11:30.21 | nox-Hand | Kero: Just get trigger happy |
| 11:31.00 | nox-Hand | If I was buying one here at P1, I'd have gotten a bot programmed to check release every 10 mins and then page me when its released ;) |
| 11:31.04 | nox-Hand | Or just sit about all day for a week |
| 11:35.06 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-156-126.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:36.22 | Kero | :) |
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| 11:44.44 | phed_ | as for marketing the openmoko: I think viral marketing will be its blessing. since I think the youtube videos of people playing with the neo will be faaaar cooler than any iphone video |
| 11:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning2 (n=blueligh@222-155-133-109.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:46.11 | nox-Hand | phed_: ++ |
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| 11:47.33 | ecraven | counter |
| 11:47.33 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 12:06:13 (2.504±2.5 days) (1497;230) |
| 11:47.52 | nox-Hand | ecraven: 2 days :o |
| 11:47.53 | nox-Hand | ;) |
| 11:49.12 | ecraven | i want p1+ with wifi ;) |
| 11:50.03 | nox-Hand | Because: 1, higher specs. 2, I can put money aside then :D |
| 11:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 11:51.26 | ecraven | oh, p2 will be different from p1+? i'd like the end model hardware-wise, i don't care much about software, as i can update that later.. |
| 11:52.26 | nox-Hand | ecraven: Oh yeah, the p1+ will probably be the same ask +2 |
| 11:52.30 | nox-Hand | Note _probably- |
| 11:52.37 | nox-Hand | They don't rightly know yet ;) |
| 11:53.13 | CM | They have prototypes of gta02 at fic already |
| 11:53.22 | CM | Check the hardware part of the wiki :) |
| 11:55.20 | nox-Hand | CM: I know =) |
| 11:55.22 | nox-Hand | It's awesome ;) |
| 11:59.45 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 12:05.26 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
| 12:08.02 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 12:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p549517D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:12.32 | nox-Hand | Anyone heard *anything* about spare battery pricing? |
| 12:12.55 | nox-Hand | And how does one charge them? I suppose they can only be charged through the Neo1973 |
| 12:15.58 | parag0n | the batteries are identical to the one used in some nokias |
| 12:16.59 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp121-44-221-90.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 12:18.42 | nox-Hand | parag0n: Will look more into it in September :) |
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| 12:26.11 | phed_ | are there API docs for libmoko* available? |
| 12:26.17 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.48.212) |
| 12:27.31 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
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| 12:46.41 | SpeedEvil | parag0n: the batteries are similar - not identical. |
| 12:47.05 | SpeedEvil | parag0n: the Neo1973 will run from charged Nokia bats, but it won't charge them |
| 12:48.51 | phed_ | hmm sorry to ask again, but are there any openmoko documents available? |
| 12:48.55 | phed_ | api documents i mean |
| 12:49.29 | SpeedEvil | Use the source phed_. |
| 12:49.43 | SpeedEvil | What do you mean by API? |
| 12:50.02 | balrog-kun | mine charges the Nokia battery |
| 12:50.26 | balrog-kun | i have no other battery than the Nokia one and no other way to charge it than inside the Neo |
| 12:50.31 | phed_ | ie a reference for the different libraries provided by libopenmoko |
| 12:51.01 | SpeedEvil | balrog-kun: Hmm - IIRC someone had noted that on the battery page. |
| 12:51.53 | balrog-kun | only strange thing i noticed is the green batt. life inidicator applet never goes above some 60% |
| 13:05.09 | Tronic | Being able to use Nokia batteries is a big advantage. |
| 13:05.17 | SpeedEvil | Yep. |
| 13:05.34 | SpeedEvil | I noted that 3 AAA batteries would also fit, in an adaptor. |
| 13:05.49 | SpeedEvil | Or did I mean AAAA |
| 13:06.04 | Tronic | AAAA is not a standard size. |
| 13:06.23 | Tronic | AAA is the smallest one that is available in all stores. |
| 13:06.33 | SpeedEvil | AAAA is a standard size. |
| 13:06.34 | Tronic | ... and it seems quite big for a cellphone. |
| 13:06.49 | SpeedEvil | But, admittedly, not comparatively available. |
| 13:07.45 | phed_ | very available around here tho |
| 13:07.48 | phed_ | since I have bought AAAA instead of AAA way too many times haha |
| 13:08.19 | CoreDump|home | morning |
| 13:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko stratus (i=stratus@conference/debconf/x-d118539bd35e5a65) |
| 13:08.57 | LuitvD | 'afternoon |
| 13:09.31 | CoreDump|home | ~ugt |
| 13:09.35 | apt | well, ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 13:14.07 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@194.152.122.177) |
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| 14:09.01 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] |
| 14:20.19 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 14:24.00 | LuitvD | well, it looks like it's sunday again... |
| 14:24.49 | LuitvD | IRC is quiet, list is quiet, small amount of news, not much to do... boring stuff... |
| 14:24.56 | LuitvD | counter |
| 14:24.57 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 10:47:31 (2.450±2.4 days) (1498;230) |
| 14:25.11 | LuitvD | I hope this is the last sunday without P1 devices |
| 14:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko mtnbkr-laptop (n=mtnbkr@c-71-235-156-61.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko chris^^ (n=kraetzi@p548AE46D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 14:49.15 | *** part/#openmoko mmazur (i=mmazur@troll.linux.net.pl) |
| 14:54.12 | loufoque | P1 isn't out yet!? |
| 14:54.20 | loufoque | but don't some people already have it? |
| 14:54.20 | ewon | nope. |
| 14:54.27 | ewon | they have the devel version, irrc |
| 14:54.28 | ewon | *iirc |
| 14:55.31 | CoreDump|home | we have a P1 |
| 14:55.54 | miip | isn't it P0? |
| 14:56.18 | CoreDump|home | the p0 devs got p1 as well due to the hardware bugs in p0 |
| 14:56.30 | miip | ahh i see |
| 14:57.49 | LuitvD | CoreDump|home: and the p1 does power management right? |
| 14:58.04 | CoreDump|home | LuitvD: as far as I can tell, yes |
| 14:58.06 | CM | But it's from a small batch of P1, not the factory made ones |
| 14:58.07 | LuitvD | CoreDump|home: if so, what's the average battery lifetime |
| 14:58.22 | LuitvD | standby/use |
| 14:58.25 | CoreDump|home | LuitvD: no idea really |
| 14:58.28 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 14:58.40 | LuitvD | never really tried? |
| 14:59.15 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (i=andreas@091-141-064-236.dyn.one.at) |
| 14:59.32 | CoreDump|home | nope |
| 15:02.33 | balrog-kun | i wouldn't say that PM is all fine now, but it's surely better than it was |
| 15:03.42 | k|to_ | counter |
| 15:03.43 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 10:28:08 (2.436±2.4 days) (1499;231) |
| 15:03.53 | k|to_ | wow, 70% |
| 15:04.05 | k|to_ | where'd all the extra confidence come from? |
| 15:04.55 | CM | Read the link in the counter, and planet.openmoko.org :) |
| 15:05.03 | balrog-kun | i see things like the phone spontaneously powering up happen sometimes, when the battery charge reaches level, but then the level is not enough to finish booting and put the device in suspend so it runs out of battery before that happens and getting out of this loop may be difficult |
| 15:07.29 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 15:07.42 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-227-94.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
| 15:08.54 | aloril2 | klto_: short range confidence is just 40% though |
| 15:09.50 | ewon | I hear the wifi chip in the P2 is to be atheros-based |
| 15:09.53 | ewon | I approve |
| 15:10.01 | ewon | packet injection capable |
| 15:10.10 | ewon | wep cracking in under 5 minutes :) |
| 15:10.52 | SpeedEvil | No - that is the allied project. |
| 15:10.56 | SpeedEvil | Evil-Neo. |
| 15:11.15 | CM | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:12.55 | mjr | well, the wifi chip sure (probably) is by atheros, but not what one's gotten used to on desk/laptops |
| 15:13.20 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@82.249.22.134) |
| 15:14.08 | loufoque | wep cracking is a must-have for the neo |
| 15:14.35 | mjr | ...not |
| 15:14.53 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADABC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:15.00 | CoreDump|home | exactly |
| 15:15.27 | loufoque | that's the only reliable way to have decent internet connection worldwide ;) |
| 15:15.46 | CoreDump|home | loufoque: it is illegal and immoral |
| 15:15.53 | loufoque | only works in urban areas though |
| 15:16.00 | CoreDump|home | open WLANs are fair game of course |
| 15:17.46 | CoreDump|home | what's the state of affairs w/ WPA btw? Is it crackable yet? |
| 15:19.02 | Stephmw | CoreDump|home: iirc open WLANs are offlimit in the UK now |
| 15:19.22 | loufoque | I never understood how law could prevent cracking. |
| 15:19.40 | loufoque | I'm just sending some waves on some given frequency |
| 15:19.54 | loufoque | they just happen to have the effect of giving me a password |
| 15:20.03 | Stephmw | loufoque: laws rarely prevent IMO... they're used to justify punishments on those caught |
| 15:20.04 | CoreDump|home | Stephmw: they are in germany as well since last month. |
| 15:20.25 | CoreDump|home | loufoque: you are trespassing, it is that simple. |
| 15:20.36 | SuN | I just happened to throw a knife through the air, and hit someone. Clearly it is not murder! |
| 15:20.41 | mjr | also if you just send electrons along the wire and just happen to root loufoque's home computer, that's okay |
| 15:20.50 | Stephmw | SuN: no, it's manslaughter |
| 15:20.51 | loufoque | how am I trespassing? It's just waves |
| 15:20.59 | SuN | (or legally: manslaughter) |
| 15:21.26 | SuN | ANd roads are just roads. And doors are just doors. |
| 15:22.45 | CoreDump|home | exactly |
| 15:23.01 | SuN | Also, zapping someone's head off with a laser is also "just sending some waves on some given frequency". |
| 15:23.08 | ewon | am I right in thinking the openmoko uses GTK or some subset of it for its GUI? |
| 15:23.20 | miip | ewon: yes |
| 15:23.43 | *** join/#openmoko thorbenk (n=thorben@kde/developer/thorbenk) |
| 15:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko phed (n=phed@obg2.rits.idcomnet.no) |
| 15:23.55 | thorbenk | Hello there :-) |
| 15:24.06 | ewon | btw, WPA isn't too crackable, you have to capture the handshake when a client connects, and then run a dictionary attack against it |
| 15:24.20 | thorbenk | Out of curiosity I'm building openmoko using MokoMakefile... |
| 15:24.21 | loufoque | so a machine that sends random waves in some range is legal, but one that happens to send the waves which make some other machine send some confidential information isn't? |
| 15:24.24 | loufoque | that's nonsense. |
| 15:24.33 | thorbenk | Could someone look at this failed configure here: http://pastebin.com/930725 What can I do about it? |
| 15:25.01 | mjr | Remember wave-particle duality, people. Firing a gun at loufoque's head is also just emitting waves on some given frequency. |
| 15:25.08 | SuN | loufoque: yes, just like throwing a knife through the air is not illegal, but throwing it at a person is. |
| 15:25.35 | SuN | The means are irrelavent, it's the intent (and proven intent). |
| 15:25.37 | MacNorthXP_ | thorbenk: you need libxosd-dev |
| 15:25.45 | loufoque | mjr: sending waves is only allowed on some given ranges. |
| 15:25.53 | loufoque | mjr: and some given frequencies |
| 15:26.05 | ewon | thinking of writing an open clone of http://www.targetplot.com.au/targplot.htm - I currently have a zaurus running GPE, so if I could write once, run on the Z and Moko without mods, that would be cool |
| 15:26.17 | loufoque | SuN: you can't prove intent. |
| 15:26.23 | ewon | currently poking Glade with a stick |
| 15:26.32 | thorbenk | MacNorthXP_: Well I've got xosd installed on my gentoo box |
| 15:26.35 | SuN | I'm inclined to say there are more free frequencies than restricted ones. |
| 15:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@209-224-dsl.kielnet.net) |
| 15:26.56 | SuN | loufoque: that's quite the implication. If that were true, no one could be convicted for murder. |
| 15:27.06 | MacNorthXP_ | apparently it doesn't have the aclocal macros |
| 15:27.19 | SuN | Since denying intent would set such a person free. |
| 15:27.20 | MacNorthXP_ | (or can't find them) |
| 15:27.39 | thorbenk | MacNorthXP_: Hmm, any ideas? |
| 15:27.40 | loufoque | SuN: even killing someone without intent is a crime. |
| 15:28.11 | mjr | loufoque, I'm curious, are you just saying whatever shit your brain comes up with without thinking, a pedantic idiot, or merely trolling? |
| 15:28.13 | SuN | loufoque: I'm not denying that. But the intent makes it murder and a more serious offence, justifying a more severe penalty. |
| 15:28.41 | loufoque | mjr: I'm saying the truth. |
| 15:28.59 | MacNorthXP_ | see if gentoo has an xosd-dev 'package' or start looking for that macro yourself and then if you find it, put where aclocal will find it |
| 15:29.06 | thorbenk | MacNorthXP_: These are the files that the xosd package installed: http://pastebin.com/930728 |
| 15:29.12 | mjr | loufoque, so all three then, kthxbye |
| 15:29.15 | loufoque | SuN: you just can't prove intent. The only thing you can do is evaluate the circumstances of the crime to know whether it was an accident or not. |
| 15:29.26 | SuN | Alright then, I'll go into Legal Mode. Can you back anything you say with specific laws or jurisprudence? |
| 15:29.43 | SuN | loufoque: eh that's pretty much the same as proving intent. |
| 15:29.56 | MacNorthXP_ | /usr/share/aclocal/libxosd.m4 is the one aclocal needs. perhaps it doesn't look there? |
| 15:29.58 | loufoque | mjr: I am indeed pedantic, and pretty proud of that. |
| 15:30.33 | loufoque | SuN: that's quite different. |
| 15:30.57 | SuN | How so? It's enough to justify a more severe penalty, obviously. |
| 15:31.49 | loufoque | SuN: see the new tarantino death proof movie for example. Stuntman Mike purposedly killed five girls, but it was filed as a car accident because of the circumstances of the deaths. |
| 15:31.58 | mjr | loufoque, so there's no fixing you then. But in the real world, we use "prove" differently than in math, HTH, HAND. |
| 15:32.03 | loufoque | so the sentence doesn't depend on intent, but rather on the circumstances. |
| 15:32.48 | SuN | It does depend on the intent, it's just that the evidence doesn't support the actual situation in this particular case. |
| 15:34.25 | SuN | Also, developing legal theories based on a Tarantino doesn't quite sound like the right path to me. |
| 15:34.34 | SuN | Tarantino movie, that is. |
| 15:35.30 | *** join/#openmoko thorbenk (n=thorben@kde/developer/thorbenk) |
| 15:36.03 | mjr | no, but I can see how that might sound like a good idea in speaking-before-thinking-pedantic-idiot-troll land |
| 15:36.07 | thorbenk | MacNorthXP_: Sorry, my IRC client just crashed... I'll look at the debug output again to see if the right include is picked up |
| 15:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 15:40.48 | thorbenk | MacNorthXP_: I just did update MokoMakefile and started make again and now xosd is downloaded from SVN... Looks much better now :-) |
| 15:41.04 | MacNorthXP_ | nice :) |
| 15:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk) |
| 15:42.06 | mjr | incidentally, should one still install moko in a 32-bit chroot (say) on a 64-bit arch? |
| 15:42.39 | *** join/#openmoko vosen (n=v0@86-63-84-163.asta-net.com.pl) |
| 15:42.56 | loufoque | mjr: I am still surprised after all those years how some people can come up with "you're an idiot" or worse, "you're a troll" as arguments. |
| 15:43.26 | loufoque | mjr: you're quite a novelty though, since you're also reproaching me of being pedantic, which is actually a Good Thing. |
| 15:44.14 | loufoque | well, it's still quite a pejorative term, but it's kinda like academic in sense. |
| 15:46.25 | robster | mjr: i think some of the tools, like devirginator/dfu-util might make 32 le assumptions. |
| 15:58.37 | CoreDump|home | ugh |
| 15:58.52 | CoreDump|home | killing "today" wasn't such a bright idea |
| 15:59.06 | CoreDump|home | there is no matchbox desktop behind it?? |
| 16:03.50 | balrog-kun | nope, only cold, black emptiness |
| 16:04.14 | CoreDump|home | I hope it's just a bug |
| 16:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 16:06.54 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1096745469.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:09.01 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 16:13.08 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X0513.x.pppool.de) |
| 16:21.28 | balrog-kun | imho it's assumed that the "today" is running |
| 16:21.50 | balrog-kun | which is not a bad assumption once it stops segfaulting |
| 16:24.45 | CoreDump|home | bad assumption, matchbox-desktop should be runnig in any case |
| 16:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.48.212) |
| 16:31.55 | nox-Hand | Ahaahahahah |
| 16:32.07 | nox-Hand | I didn't get why some people were confused about what I was talking about |
| 16:32.18 | nox-Hand | Seems I mistook #ubuntu for #openmoko ;) |
| 16:32.51 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57A510D7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:34.18 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@168-103-68-55.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 16:35.24 | phed | hehe |
| 16:35.40 | phed | seems very easy to code for |
| 16:35.50 | phed | so, now I want a phone so I can help out finalizing a lot of those apps |
| 16:36.19 | nox-Hand | phed: If there is not going to bemade one, I need to learn how to code an MPD client :] Or perhaps, even more awesome, how to port an app to OpenMoko :D |
| 16:36.32 | phed | MPD? |
| 16:36.34 | nox-Hand | MPD Remote Control over WiFi at home contorlling media server |
| 16:36.35 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 16:36.41 | nox-Hand | phed: Music PLayer Daemon |
| 16:36.45 | phed | ah |
| 16:36.52 | nox-Hand | Excuse my spelling, I forgot to go to bed last night |
| 16:36.57 | nox-Hand | So running on empty now |
| 16:37.01 | phed | well, gui-wise stuff seems very easy to do |
| 16:37.16 | nox-Hand | It's basically a light Linux, really |
| 16:37.18 | phed | and as long as you know how to do the underlying stuff it seems just a matter of doing it |
| 16:37.38 | phed | yeah, but I mean the widgets are very clean and effective |
| 16:39.00 | nox-Hand | phed: Actually held a Neo1973 yet? |
| 16:39.07 | phed | nope |
| 16:39.36 | phed | I just learnt about it, and spent some time reading up on it. and now reading through the sources that are available so far |
| 16:41.20 | nox-Hand | phed: Neat stuff |
| 16:41.29 | nox-Hand | phed: Anyway.. going to go lay down for a night ;) |
| 16:41.36 | phed | hehe probably smart |
| 16:41.47 | ynezz | you can start to devel even without neo - under qemu |
| 16:42.21 | ynezz | counter |
| 16:42.22 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 09:38:49 (2.402±2.4 days) (1500;231) |
| 16:42.30 | ynezz | 70% omg!1! |
| 16:43.00 | phed | what does the percentages mean? |
| 16:43.49 | nox-Hand | phed: Probability of release estimate |
| 16:44.04 | nox-Hand | It's an unofficial counter of when it might get released |
| 16:46.41 | nox-Hand | ynezz: relax,... breathe.. BREATHE DAMN IT!! |
| 16:46.42 | nox-Hand | ;) |
| 16:47.40 | nox-Hand | NightOM nerds =D |
| 16:49.15 | *** join/#openmoko dotx (n=dotX@log77-4-82-246-228-78.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:49.18 | dotx | hello |
| 16:52.38 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 16:53.06 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2289 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (136 files in 17 dirs): Merge last week's changes from cvs.savannah.nongnu.org:/sources/qemu |
| 16:55.53 | Sup3rkiddo | to those guys are having the device...does hanging up seg the dialer? |
| 16:56.34 | Sup3rkiddo | *who are |
| 16:57.10 | balrog-kun | Sup3rkiddo: it's been fixed already |
| 16:57.24 | xkr47 | "please don't hang up" |
| 16:57.26 | xkr47 | :) |
| 16:57.50 | balrog-kun | !bug 597 |
| 16:57.50 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, when?, acutally i have been trying to wrap libgsmd..and i found that hanging up is segging the interpreter |
| 16:58.02 | balrog-kun | hmm |
| 16:58.05 | balrog-kun | let's try again :p |
| 16:58.07 | balrog-kun | ~bug 597 |
| 16:58.25 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, i know my way to the bugzila ..:D |
| 16:59.05 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea_ (n=paroneay@216-80-91-134.grn-bsr1.chi-grn.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 16:59.27 | Sup3rkiddo | ok, it seems to be related to the GUI...hmm.. |
| 16:59.48 | balrog-kun | !ombug 597 |
| 16:59.49 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 597, Status: RESOLVED (FIXED), Created: Unknown |
| 16:59.50 | cdbot2 | * * balrogg(AT)gmail.com: openmoko-dialer segfaults on cancelling an outgoing call |
| 16:59.51 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=597 |
| 17:00.05 | balrog-kun | finally : |
| 17:00.06 | balrog-kun | ) |
| 17:00.46 | balrog-kun | Sup3rkiddo: if it's hanging libgsmd then it must be a different bug :/ |
| 17:01.33 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, hmm..ok, i dunno if i am the one messing up ...will check stuff up ;) |
| 17:05.30 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=hongtd@58.187.121.245) |
| 17:06.22 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, btw, even the demo application libgsmd-tool, says it couldn't connect to gsmd...is that a known issue with gsmd and libgsmd's inability to connect to it? |
| 17:07.30 | thorbenk | Are there any Gentoo users here? |
| 17:07.50 | Sup3rkiddo | thorbenk, me..me..me |
| 17:09.28 | thorbenk | Sup3rkiddo: I'm trying to build and run openmoko using qemu, but I gather you need gcc3 to compile qemu? How did you do it? |
| 17:10.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (i=muciipec@p5495115F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:10.28 | Sup3rkiddo | thorbenk, yes...i installed gcc3 and used gcc-config to switch my compiler, and then compiled qemu..i had to re-emerge monotone though |
| 17:11.02 | thorbenk | Sup3rkiddo: Did you switch back to gcc4 after compiling qemu? |
| 17:11.12 | Sup3rkiddo | thorbenk, yes |
| 17:11.14 | thorbenk | I don't want to switch my whole system back to gcc3 because of this |
| 17:11.32 | thorbenk | Sup3rkiddo: OK, I'll emerge a gcc3 then, thanks |
| 17:11.42 | Sup3rkiddo | thorbenk, no problem :) |
| 17:21.54 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:22.13 | tri | hi |
| 17:22.39 | tri | sync between openmoko and zimbra would be nice or is this already possible ? |
| 17:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko fresko1 (n=fredrik@213-204-48-247.bredband.aland.net) |
| 17:27.53 | phed | wee |
| 17:28.09 | phed | then I think I've run out of things to read about the neo/openmoko :| |
| 17:29.48 | SpeedEvil | You've read the wiki:Special:all_pages ? |
| 17:29.49 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 17:30.04 | Vegar | have you read all the mailing lists? |
| 17:30.15 | SpeedEvil | In practice - there isn't that much. |
| 17:30.27 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@76.201.146.195) |
| 17:31.22 | SpeedEvil | You can always ask question here. |
| 17:34.27 | Stephmw | ahh shucks. I wanted to time someone reading the lists |
| 17:35.12 | phed | haha, not all. but I did have a glance on the discussions the last months :P |
| 17:35.19 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@68.Red-88-24-249.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:37.08 | balrog-kun | Sup3rkiddo: i don't know, i think it's supposed to work |
| 17:37.43 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, its not working in qemu in my case.. |
| 17:37.57 | balrog-kun | thorbenk: you don't have to switch the whole system to gcc3 with gcc-config, it's enought o configure qemu with --cc=gcc-3.3.6 |
| 17:38.40 | balrog-kun | Sup3rkiddo: well, in qemu there's no celluular operator in range :p |
| 17:38.43 | thorbenk | balrog-kun: Great, thanks :-) gcc3 is still compiling here, after that I'll try it :-) |
| 17:39.18 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, yeah but i am not tyring to make a call..duh...so i take it gsmd doesnt run then |
| 17:39.22 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (i=andreas@091-141-064-136.dyn.one.at) |
| 17:39.26 | Sup3rkiddo | in qemu that is |
| 17:40.04 | balrog-kun | well, i don't know, try /etc/init.d/gsmd start |
| 17:40.20 | balrog-kun | and then see what's in the logs in /var/tmp/gsmd.log (or similar) |
| 17:40.27 | Sup3rkiddo | balrog-kun, tried that..shows that gsmd is starting...and even is successful |
| 17:40.34 | Sup3rkiddo | oh..ok..will take a look |
| 17:40.45 | pH5 | Sup3rkiddo: if the emulator doesn't emulate the modem, gsmd will terminate after some time if it doesn't get answers to ATE0 |
| 17:41.02 | balrog-kun | gsmd probably is unable to understand what the modem is saying and maybe exits |
| 17:41.46 | balrog-kun | pH5: there is a very primitive modem but it's totally untested and there are many features (like echo on/echo off) that it doesn't understand so it probably breaks the parser |
| 17:41.52 | Sup3rkiddo | hmm.. |
| 17:42.33 | Sup3rkiddo | pH5, so i take it, that theres no way i could test applications that are dependent on libgsmd with some device? |
| 17:42.41 | Sup3rkiddo | *real device |
| 17:43.35 | pH5 | Sup3rkiddo: well, you could try to improve the emulated modem so that it gives sane results. |
| 17:44.04 | Sup3rkiddo | pH5, vow...sounds like fun ;)... |
| 17:44.37 | balrog-kun | yeah, that would very nice |
| 17:45.51 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-154-042.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 17:45.56 | SpeedEvil | Or even ideally, so it can connect to a real GSM modem |
| 17:45.56 | aloril2 | ynezz: prob <= 2007-07-07 has been high before I added it to IRC message (prob1 + prob2; prob1: <= 2007-06-22; prob2: 2007-07-23<= <= 2007-07-07 |
| 17:46.53 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: if you have a real GSM modem connected to a serial port of your host then there's no problem for qemu to talk to it |
| 17:46.59 | aloril2 | its also 90% < 2007-09-01 ;-) |
| 17:49.20 | balrog-kun | people even use that to connect to internet with a winmodem and windows running in qemu on linux |
| 17:49.21 | loufoque | 5% never |
| 17:55.58 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.47.8) |
| 17:59.45 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 18:00.46 | DukeOfURL | Hi, any news? |
| 18:01.31 | thorbenk | OK, now I've got qemu built and flashed with the built openmoko-image |
| 18:01.39 | thorbenk | But I'm stuck in the boot menu :-P |
| 18:01.46 | thorbenk | How do I get past it? |
| 18:01.53 | Vegar | enter/space keys |
| 18:02.14 | thorbenk | Vegar: Ahh, Space, who thinks of that? I tried enter obviously... Thanks |
| 18:02.49 | Vegar | well |
| 18:03.02 | Vegar | when you were done flashing, it said which key was which |
| 18:07.28 | aloril2 | DukeOfURL: not since Friday |
| 18:08.11 | DukeOfURL | ok |
| 18:11.06 | Vegar | what happened on friday? |
| 18:17.05 | cjb | 'lo all. |
| 18:17.17 | cjb | balrog-kun: hey, remind me whether you have a p1? |
| 18:21.31 | balrog-kun | cjb: yes, i have a p1 |
| 18:22.44 | deepank | I want to know about the basic structure of mokoui library |
| 18:26.45 | deepank | can anybody help me out... |
| 18:27.07 | *** join/#openmoko dkirker (n=dkirker@c-24-6-210-139.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:27.08 | cjb | deepank: there are wiki pages on it. have you read them? |
| 18:27.09 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 18:28.31 | *** join/#openmoko stratus (i=stratus@conference/debconf/x-0494284e22f1c48f) |
| 18:30.52 | kiney | counter |
| 18:30.53 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (70% for P1 <=2007-07-07) 40% for P1: 2 days 08:44:33 (2.364±2.4 days) (1501;231) |
| 18:32.45 | deepank | cjb:no I could not find a wiki page detailing that. Can you please point them out to me |
| 18:33.34 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 18:34.05 | ynezz | Nokia n800 or Zaurus CL-1000? That's a question... |
| 18:36.27 | aloril2 | Vegar: see above counter page (or planet) |
| 18:39.25 | CoreDump|afk | ynezz: the n800 is suffering from some not-so-nice details, be sure to google about its "openness" before purchasing |
| 18:40.20 | ynezz | for example? |
| 18:40.24 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.43.250) |
| 18:41.29 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 18:49.49 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178086250.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko gox (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:55.56 | *** join/#openmoko Free_maN (n=freenux@lou27-1-88-162-146-154.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:00.57 | happycube | yeah the n770 isnt open either hw-wise |
| 19:01.23 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.57.117) |
| 19:03.21 | LuitvD | happycube: no big company does open hardware... |
| 19:03.37 | LuitvD | they're all too happy with their software lock-in |
| 19:04.27 | DukeOfURL | is there any phone where GPS data can be retrieved (by say, a Java ME applet)? |
| 19:04.46 | robster | Sun distribute Verilog for their SPARC CPUs |
| 19:06.24 | cjb | LuitvD: intel? |
| 19:06.43 | cjb | robster: I was reading some worrying stuff about that. |
| 19:07.02 | phed | the n-series phones supports bluetooth gps if you use ie the contextwatcher software :) |
| 19:07.14 | cjb | robster: http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/one_plus_one_is_fifty#comment-1181726726000 |
| 19:07.55 | ynezz | CoreDump|afk: any link(s)? |
| 19:08.01 | robster | DukeOfURL: i think blackberries can |
| 19:11.36 | CoreDump|afk | ynezz: no, that's why I pointed to google |
| 19:12.13 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.60.152) |
| 19:12.27 | ynezz | I can't find something relevant |
| 19:14.45 | CoreDump|afk | both hrw|gone and koen own one. Ask them what they think about it |
| 19:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.60.152) |
| 19:21.14 | cjb | So, is the p1 microphone working for anyone else? Speakers work fine here, but mic not at all. |
| 19:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@gw1.panoulu.net) |
| 19:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:31.52 | *** join/#openmoko deepank__ (n=deepank@59.178.60.152) |
| 19:32.53 | ewon | cjb: afair, people have made phone calls, ergo the mic works |
| 19:37.35 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB3EE39.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:38.01 | cjb | ewon: I have made phone calls, but the mic didn't work. |
| 19:38.05 | cjb | :) |
| 19:38.44 | ewon | cjb: I see :) |
| 19:39.38 | cjb | and doing "arecord foo.wav; aplay foo.wav" just plays back silence, too. |
| 19:39.49 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@M9e00.m.pppool.de) |
| 19:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko paroneayea (n=paroneay@fsf/member/paroneayea) |
| 19:45.06 | CoreDump|afk | cjb: are you 100% sure that your asound.ctl is correct? |
| 19:45.16 | CoreDump|afk | *asound.state |
| 19:46.32 | cjb | CoreDump|afk: I used pavelmachek's state; that's how I got the speaker working. |
| 19:46.47 | CoreDump|afk | speaker != mic |
| 19:46.50 | cjb | but it didn't get the mic working. maybe someone can tell me which alsa devices control the mic input/volume. |
| 19:46.52 | cjb | of course. |
| 19:56.15 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@p54B29E2B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:01.15 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 20:09.01 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:LongMan]] [[User:Denis_polevoi]] [[Neo1973/ru]] |
| 20:16.24 | *** join/#openmoko deepank_ (n=deepank@59.178.56.118) |
| 20:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A359DD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:31.01 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADABC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:41.48 | ph|ber | m0o |
| 20:42.15 | SpeedEvil | B4rk |
| 20:45.23 | ph|ber | whats up |
| 20:45.59 | SpeedEvil | Shh! We are hunting release dates! |
| 20:52.01 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 20:53.41 | Elrond | *G* |
| 20:58.37 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@32.235.125.209.transedge.com) |
| 21:01.37 | SpeedEvil | Though that should have been wascally welease dates! |
| 21:04.02 | mmp | SpeedEvil: wour speech weminds me sometwing :) |
| 21:04.06 | *** join/#openmoko k3ntropy (n=k3sempro@211-74-105-62.adsl.dynamic.seed.net.tw) |
| 21:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54891640.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:06.04 | *** join/#openmoko poffy (n=poffy@cpe-70-116-144-238.houston.res.rr.com) |
| 21:06.30 | mmp | (sorry, but I could not help myself:) |
| 21:10.19 | LuitvD | :P |
| 21:11.41 | mwester-laptop | Er, what's up doc? |
| 21:11.55 | CM | mmp: Hehe.. You wascal! |
| 21:16.38 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A359DD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:19.06 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - BTW: I think, packet 23 are correlation data. Around the maximum or so. Just the scaling confuses me. ;) |
| 21:19.34 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Not to mention, that the thing creates data in the same scaling area for satelits with and without signal. ;o) |
| 21:20.12 | SpeedEvil | So, you think you are recieving output from the correlators for satellites? |
| 21:20.22 | SpeedEvil | have you decoded the format, or is it just a guess? |
| 21:20.31 | Elrond | It's just a guess. |
| 21:21.00 | Elrond | It looks like 6 (or 14, if I request 14), 12 bit readouts around the maximum. |
| 21:22.14 | Hopscotch | the a/d converters have 3bits *afair* |
| 21:22.24 | SpeedEvil | So you mean that you get 6 or 14 bins energy read out to you from the packet? |
| 21:22.55 | SpeedEvil | The bins with the highest energies? |
| 21:23.36 | Elrond | Is it really "energy"? I'd call the resukt of a correlator something like "sum" or so? |
| 21:24.08 | SpeedEvil | It's really energy, in the sense that it's integrated power. |
| 21:24.16 | SpeedEvil | Sum is also valid. |
| 21:24.54 | Elrond | So yes, the highest energy seems to centered in the readout. |
| 21:25.15 | Elrond | The correlation happens in analog space? |
| 21:25.36 | SpeedEvil | I don't know how the correlators are made. However. |
| 21:25.44 | SpeedEvil | My guesses are: |
| 21:26.08 | SpeedEvil | Take fast 3 or 4 bit A/D at several Mhz sampling the incoming signal. |
| 21:26.50 | SpeedEvil | For each signal, add or subtract this from the integrator output depending on |
| 21:26.59 | SpeedEvil | for each correlator output that is |
| 21:27.11 | SpeedEvil | depending on the PRN value at that correlator |
| 21:27.22 | SpeedEvil | It may be done in either analog or digital space. |
| 21:27.33 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 21:27.59 | SpeedEvil | SO it could be reading out either a digital counter, or a capacitor which is read by some sort of A/D |
| 21:28.25 | SpeedEvil | Not sampling the incoming GPS signal - sampling some IF signal. |
| 21:28.44 | ewon | man, fretsonfire rocks! |
| 21:28.59 | SpeedEvil | Annoyingly I've not had much time in the last few days - been concentrating on stuff to make money :( |
| 21:29.28 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yuck. You found some money sources? |
| 21:29.45 | SpeedEvil | Sort-of. Selling stuff I build on ebay. |
| 21:29.59 | SpeedEvil | Health makes full-time-job problematic ATM. |
| 21:30.54 | *** join/#openmoko guest_ (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 21:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-166-242.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 21:33.14 | Elrond | part time jobs are spare, as usual? |
| 21:33.43 | SpeedEvil | My health is unreliable, I can't say if I'm going to be feeling OK on any given day. |
| 21:33.52 | SpeedEvil | Which makes most jobs problematic. |
| 21:34.04 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 21:35.34 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: So when's the GPL'd driver scheduled for? :) (Great work!) |
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| 21:38.53 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *lol* I wont make the fic-error and name any dates. ;o) |
| 21:39.55 | LuitvD | XD |
| 21:41.14 | Elrond | Hmm, requesting 32 correlator-bins seems to also work. ;o) |
| 21:42.17 | SpeedEvil | But being able to even pick up the correlator output at all, and relate it to the real-time-clock in the GPS gives you position to a couple of kilometers or so - and accurate time. |
| 21:42.51 | SpeedEvil | Many outputs should only be needed in horrible urban canyon environments. |
| 21:43.09 | SpeedEvil | Wehre there are lots of reflections, and the prime signal may not be the largest one. |
| 21:43.25 | SpeedEvil | In an open field, it shouldn't be so important. |
| 21:43.39 | Elrond | Hmm... *WILD guessting* I think, I can see the reflections inside my house. ;o) |
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| 21:44.44 | SpeedEvil | The scaling should be around 1 microsecond a bin, so a thousand feet more or less. |
| 21:45.08 | Elrond | Okay... so that can't be reflections in my house. Good catch. :) |
| 21:45.11 | SpeedEvil | There may however be two sets of correlators. |
| 21:45.49 | SpeedEvil | One of which is a 'slow' set - which is aimed at picking up the whole bitstream. The other which is aimed at timing exactly the 'edges' of the PRN signal |
| 21:46.12 | SpeedEvil | To provide very accurate positioning. |
| 21:46.53 | Elrond | Hmm, so possibly the ones I see are the "fast ones"? |
| 21:47.00 | SpeedEvil | I don't know. |
| 21:47.05 | SpeedEvil | This is utter speculation. |
| 21:47.15 | SpeedEvil | There are a couple of possible ways it could be done. |
| 21:47.34 | Elrond | Well, a lot of this is currently speculation. :-) |
| 21:47.52 | SpeedEvil | Indeed :) |
| 21:48.20 | Elrond | I have a bunch of data from outdoor from today. I need to convert the hexdumps to usable data for handling in numpy. ;-) |
| 21:48.22 | SpeedEvil | Consider that with 'only' 1000 or 2000 correlators per signal, you ahve to _very_ accurately measure the phase between bins to get an accurate position. |
| 21:48.48 | SpeedEvil | As the 1 microsecond or so chip rate is a thousand feet more or less. |
| 21:49.13 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 21:49.17 | SpeedEvil | You need to get phase to within a very small part of a degree to get .5m or so resolution. |
| 21:49.37 | Elrond | BTW: Accurate time: I have not been able to see any 50Hz at all. Complete different story. |
| 21:49.52 | SpeedEvil | That will come out elsewhere. |
| 21:50.32 | SpeedEvil | It will come out in the correlators, but putting it in every measurement would generally be silly |
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| 21:53.13 | pH5 | would the GPS SPS signal specification at http://www.navcen.uscg.gov/pubs/gps/sigspec/default.htm be a good read to catch up with your knowledge a bit? I'm losing track of what you're talking about all the time :) |
| 21:53.16 | SpeedEvil | Two ways spring to mind. Obviously you don't download the bits one by one every 20ms. |
| 21:53.30 | SpeedEvil | pH5: not really - it's horrible. |
| 21:53.47 | pH5 | any tips? |
| 21:53.50 | SpeedEvil | http://www.colorado.edu/geography/gcraft/notes/gps/gps.html |
| 21:53.54 | SpeedEvil | is quite OK |
| 21:53.59 | SpeedEvil | And about as simple as it gets. |
| 21:54.35 | Vegar | do you have an SVN/CVS repository for your current work? |
| 21:54.41 | Elrond | Is that link already on the wiki? |
| 21:54.44 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 21:54.52 | Elrond | Good. :) |
| 21:55.00 | SpeedEvil | Not the official spec |
| 21:55.14 | Elrond | Vegar - Not really. This is all wild hacking. |
| 21:55.22 | Vegar | ok |
| 21:55.32 | Elrond | Vegar - My python sources are a complete hack. |
| 21:55.52 | Vegar | do they only exist on your localhost? |
| 21:56.14 | Elrond | I've started to split out "neo1973 gps-power-manangement" into its own .py, but that's about it. ;o) |
| 21:56.36 | Elrond | Vegar - They exist on the phone and as backup on my home desktop. ;) |
| 21:56.50 | Vegar | ok |
| 21:57.21 | Vegar | just wondering |
| 21:59.39 | Elrond | We could start a repos on any of those free hosting projects. But I'd currently only upload neo1973.py and unhexify.py. ;o) (while the later just turns "aa bb cc dd 12" into the right string. (I couldn't get me into always having to put \x everywhere. ;o) ) |
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| 22:02.09 | Elrond | Vegar - Having the complete stuff on the phone is nice. A friend and I were in the middle of nowhere (okay, there was a nice castle in the next village). With a laptop. ;-) We put the phone (and his sirf3 / a lended garmin navi) on the top of the car and had fun sitting inside and hacking. ;o= |
| 22:02.35 | Vegar | hehe |
| 22:02.35 | Vegar | cool |
| 22:03.23 | Vegar | doesn't the GPS work inside the car? |
| 22:03.44 | Elrond | It probably would. But I wanted _very_ good signals. |
| 22:04.24 | Elrond | ... in the hope, that I could distinguish signals from satelites, which can't be seen at all (other side of world) and sats with good signal. |
| 22:05.00 | Vegar | ok |
| 22:05.04 | Vegar | wait.. |
| 22:05.17 | pH5 | SpeedEvil: ok, I guess I'll have to get over that horrible background color after all. |
| 22:05.19 | Vegar | is it possible to receive signals from satellites you can't see? |
| 22:05.34 | Elrond | No. :-) |
| 22:05.48 | Elrond | But the chip tries anyway. |
| 22:06.10 | Elrond | And I want to be able to distinguish plain noise from real signals. |
| 22:06.20 | miip | you must have good eyes to see those satellites ;) |
| 22:06.40 | mjr | miip, he has a telescope, silly |
| 22:06.52 | ewon | in a cruel twist of fate, my house is uniquely situated in that I have zero line of sight for satellite television, and there is no cable in my area. |
| 22:06.56 | Elrond | miip - hehe. I'm just wondering, if one can see them using a good telescope. ;-) |
| 22:07.26 | SpeedEvil | Yes - but they are not easy targets. |
| 22:07.28 | miip | well if it has autotracking and can move really fast... maybe :) |
| 22:07.38 | SpeedEvil | Fairly slowly |
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| 22:07.49 | SpeedEvil | The GPS birds are in 12 hour orbits. |
| 22:07.57 | Hopscotch | Elrond: 20000km distance and 5m big... |
| 22:08.01 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Mesh_Networking]] |
| 22:08.03 | SpeedEvil | Interestingly, Iridium can be visible easily by the naked eye. |
| 22:08.12 | Hopscotch | the iss as well |
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| 22:08.20 | Stephmw | high reflectivity? |
| 22:08.21 | rwhitby | ewon: your IQ is probably 20 points higher because of that :-) |
| 22:08.31 | Hopscotch | you have to wait for the moment where it is dark on the ground but the sun still lights the sats |
| 22:08.32 | SpeedEvil | The solar cells are arranged in such a way on Iridium that they reflect light _brightly_ at the right time. |
| 22:08.52 | SpeedEvil | ISS is just visible because it's a huge sort-of-reflective orbital pork-barrel. |
| 22:09.10 | SpeedEvil | You don't usually get reflection off the solar panels. |
| 22:09.42 | Elrond | So this was some "geek"-thingy from the iridium people? |
| 22:10.01 | SpeedEvil | No - it's just the way the solar panels happen to be arranged and track the sun. |
| 22:10.13 | SpeedEvil | You get bright reflections near dawn and dusk at the right times. |
| 22:10.40 | Elrond | So they didn't arrange the panels specifically? |
| 22:11.18 | SpeedEvil | Well - nobodies said they have, and there are reasons why it's a sensible solution. |
| 22:11.34 | SpeedEvil | http://www.satobs.org/iridium.html |
| 22:13.41 | SpeedEvil | Oh - antennas, not solar panels. And 30 times brighter than venus at peak - daytime visible if you know where to look. |
| 22:14.45 | Elrond | Wee, fun. |
| 22:24.13 | cjb | hm, I must be dumb. trying to get the GPS to work, but gllin doesn't seem to be outputting anything. |
| 22:25.31 | LuitvD | 'night |
| 22:25.40 | cjb | it likes saying: |
| 22:25.42 | cjb | Stack size 8864 bytes (9 KB) |
| 22:25.45 | cjb | and then quitting |
| 22:27.49 | cjb | haha |
| 22:27.51 | cjb | *** glibc detected *** gllin: double free or corruption (!prev): 0x001ca190 *** |
| 22:31.38 | baird | I wrote a program (http://hunter.apana.org.au/~cjb/Code/predict1.shar) for tracking satellites visually once.. That could be a cool application for the phone. :) |
| 22:32.55 | baird | www.heavens-above.com does Iridum flash predictions and etc. |
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| 22:40.36 | Elrond | Hmm, any good link, where one can see the location of the gps sats for a given location? |
| 22:41.14 | SpeedEvil | heavens-above |
| 22:41.22 | SpeedEvil | I think will give positions for a subset |
| 22:41.23 | SpeedEvil | or |
| 22:41.39 | SpeedEvil | if gpgll puts out GPSSV (?) sentances |
| 22:41.58 | SpeedEvil | they have degrees and elevations of each sat |
| 22:42.08 | Elrond | You mean gllin? |
| 22:42.16 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 22:43.01 | SpeedEvil | I was suggesting bypassing the stomach entirely :) |
| 22:43.03 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:43.07 | Elrond | Hmm, I had hoped for a public service, using the almanac or so... |
| 22:43.16 | cjb | hm, gllin told me something: |
| 22:43.18 | cjb | $PGLOR,RID,GLL,182,5,023*4D |
| 22:43.24 | cjb | that doesn't look like nmea to me, though? |
| 22:43.43 | Elrond | Not like normal nmea. |
| 22:43.48 | CoreDump|afk | my gllin produces NMEA just fine |
| 22:44.16 | cjb | CoreDump|afk: what do you do to get it running? |
| 22:44.25 | CoreDump|afk | hmmm |
| 22:44.34 | cjb | I just ran "gllin" and it seems to be hanging. |
| 22:44.38 | CoreDump|afk | it did that like two month ago |
| 22:44.59 | CoreDump|afk | you need to give it an option to use a logfile IIRC |
| 22:45.04 | cjb | also, what happens when you do gllin -low 5? |
| 22:45.10 | cjb | oh, any idea what that is? |
| 22:45.27 | cjb | woot! |
| 22:45.32 | cjb | it took about five minutes, but: |
| 22:45.39 | cjb | $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78 |
| 22:45.39 | cjb | $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,1.1,0.5,1.0*34 |
| 22:45.39 | cjb | $PGLOR,IGR,91.18,7,147274734,4,4,0,8*39 |
| 22:45.45 | cjb | someone want to tell me where I am? :) |
| 22:46.24 | thresh | you're definitely on Earth |
| 22:46.30 | cjb | bonus. |
| 22:46.34 | CoreDump|afk | =) |
| 22:47.01 | SpeedEvil | GPRMC is the recommended minimum sentance |
| 22:47.13 | cjb | what does that mean? |
| 22:47.14 | SpeedEvil | when you have a real signal, it'll fill in between the ,'s |
| 22:47.34 | cjb | oh, I don't have a real signal? |
| 22:47.41 | SpeedEvil | $GPRMC,151820,A,5613.005,N,00306.715,W,000.0,360.0,120407,006.5,W*7D |
| 22:47.44 | SpeedEvil | forex |
| 22:48.00 | cjb | so, what do I have? |
| 22:48.49 | SpeedEvil | That is: time, ?, decimal latitude, N/S, decimal longitude (in hundredths of a degree), heading, date, speed over ground |
| 22:48.54 | SpeedEvil | Or somethign |
| 22:49.04 | SpeedEvil | cjb: are you indoors? |
| 22:49.06 | cjb | yes |
| 22:49.16 | SpeedEvil | Can you move the neo close to a window? |
| 22:49.54 | cjb | only if I unplug it from usb :) I got another reading: |
| 22:50.03 | cjb | $GPGGA,235946.99,,,,,00,00,0.5,,M,0.0001999,M,0.0000099,*54 |
| 22:50.03 | cjb | $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78 |
| 22:50.03 | cjb | $GPGSA,A,1,,,,,,,,,,,,,1.1,0.5,1.0*34 |
| 22:50.03 | cjb | $PGLOR,IGR,81.8,7,71514,0,4*00 |
| 22:50.23 | SpeedEvil | That's still not a valid reading. |
| 22:50.30 | SpeedEvil | Look at teh $GPRMC,235946.99,V,,,,,,,120180,,,N*78 |
| 22:50.31 | SpeedEvil | line |
| 22:50.38 | SpeedEvil | and compare with the one I pasted |
| 22:50.58 | SpeedEvil | I think the third field is a validity indicator |
| 22:51.00 | cjb | righto. |
| 22:51.13 | SpeedEvil | It'll go to 'A' and the data gets filled in if it's got a lock |
| 22:51.35 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: and I meant $GPGSV,3,1,11,02,51,269,51,04,45,202,47,06,11,332,00,07,07,344,00*75 |
| 22:51.59 | SpeedEvil | this is satellite positions and signal strengths |
| 22:53.28 | SpeedEvil | cjb: disconnecting, and moving it near a window for 1 minute should give you a position. |
| 22:54.56 | cjb | ok. since the file is a named pipe, though, I won't see it if I'm disconnected. I'll set up logging first. |
| 22:57.10 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - :-) |
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| 23:36.34 | cjb | hmph, still no gps lock, by the window. |
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| 23:37.31 | aevin | you're on the wrong planet? |
| 23:38.36 | cjb | I hate it when that happens. |
| 23:41.24 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 23:41.37 | SpeedEvil | Is it a 'normal' glass window? |
| 23:41.40 | SpeedEvil | Or a coated one. |
| 23:42.01 | cjb | we're on the 11th floor of an office building, so it's probably pretty reinforced. |
| 23:42.13 | SpeedEvil | And it's probably got solar reflective stuff on it. |
| 23:42.21 | cjb | I'll go wander around outside with an OLPC and openmoko, and see how many strange looks I get. |
| 23:42.23 | SpeedEvil | Which may well reflect all microwaves too. |
| 23:42.31 | SpeedEvil | Do you get mobile phone signal? |
| 23:42.36 | cjb | yup. |
| 23:42.48 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. Dunno. |
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