| 00:00.20 | robtaylor | happycube: yeah, they're using hildon |
| 00:05.46 | adhoc_ | rwhitby: that would be a shame, if they do intel mobile internet devices only. |
| 00:08.17 | SpeedEvil | looks ok |
| 00:13.27 | xl0 | adhoc_: Imho the ubuntu mobile/embedded was initially about UMPCs and not the real embedded arm/ppc devices. |
| 00:14.46 | adhoc_ | xl0: ok |
| 00:16.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Popup_Menu]] [[Connecting_GTA01Bv2_with_Debug_Board]] [[Talk:Search]] [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Clock]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] [[Talk:Unit_Converter]] [[Media_Content]] [[Talk:Auto-complete]] and other changes |
| 00:19.23 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-245-180.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 01:06.06 | holtmann | What is the easiest way to install python and python-dbus to an official OM build. |
| 01:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko aesci7E (n=aesci99@221.221.134.148) |
| 01:37.10 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 01:38.04 | holtmann | LaF0rge: What is the easiest way to get python and python-dbus on the phone? |
| 01:38.47 | holtmann | And I think about flashing it with the latest build. Do you have a link for me? |
| 01:40.48 | *** join/#openmoko mickey|fic (n=mickey@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
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| 01:54.39 | LaF0rge | hi holtmann |
| 01:54.56 | LaF0rge | holtmann: please msg your cellphone number, will+willie will need to find you there ;) |
| 01:55.10 | LaF0rge | holtmann: pythond and python-dbus, I can build it on buildhost, give me a minute |
| 01:58.32 | holtmann | You have my cell phone number and I sent it to Sean via email. |
| 01:59.03 | LaF0rge | holtmann: I should have it, but somehow it's not in my phonebook. Don't really know why... |
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| 02:01.37 | mickey|fic | morning holtmann |
| 02:01.51 | holtmann | Morning. |
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| 02:14.07 | LaF0rge | holtmann: python is now available as ipk's from buildhost (http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/python-*.ipk) |
| 02:14.16 | LaF0rge | holtmann: python-dbus will needs some more time |
| 02:14.30 | hads | Cool |
| 02:17.15 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@toi.yeu.phu.nu) |
| 02:17.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Media_Content]] [[Calculator]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Talk:Picture_Viewer]] [[Application_Menu]] [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Talk:Style_Sheet]] [[Dfu-util/bg]] [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC]] |
| 02:20.51 | mickey|fic | holtmann: python-dbus is on buildhost now |
| 02:22.18 | holtmann | URL please. And do you have new image build from today or so? |
| 02:26.47 | mickey|fic | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/python-dbus_0.71-ml0_armv4t.ipk |
| 02:26.59 | mickey|fic | i'll launch a build, should be ready in a couple of minutes |
| 02:27.29 | *** join/#openmoko keithp (n=keithp@home.keithp.com) |
| 02:27.42 | LaF0rge | hi keith ;) |
| 02:28.08 | LaF0rge | holtmann: though the image does not contain python... |
| 02:28.32 | LaF0rge | holtmann: is there anything else you need? |
| 02:28.41 | LaF0rge | holtmann: we can generate a custom image with all the packages you need |
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| 02:34.15 | wehttamb | counter |
| 02:34.15 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 04:42:52 (4.196±4.2 days) (1433;229) |
| 02:34.21 | wehttamb | counter? |
| 02:34.22 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 04:42:49 (4.196±4.2 days) (1434;229) |
| 02:35.01 | wehttamb | "/msg aloril counter?" |
| 02:35.12 | holtmann | LaF0rge: I will get back to you on that. |
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| 02:41.01 | holtmann | Traceback (most recent call last): |
| 02:41.01 | holtmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:41.01 | holtmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:41.01 | holtmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:41.01 | holtmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:41.03 | holtmann | ImportError: No module named weakref |
| 02:41.17 | holtmann | Any ideas. I not a Python guru, but it seems that some module is missing. |
| 02:41.52 | mickey|fic | weakref sounds like it should be in python-lang or python-lowlevel |
| 02:41.55 | mickey|fic | let me look it up for ya |
| 02:43.24 | madewokherd | um, why wouldn't it just be in python? |
| 02:43.27 | mickey|fic | yes, python-lang is it |
| 02:43.37 | mickey|fic | madewokherd: welcome to fine granular packaging for embedded systems |
| 02:44.02 | madewokherd | I see |
| 02:44.04 | mickey|fic | a lot of programs can do without weakref, that's why it didnt make it into python-core |
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| 02:55.48 | Sup3rkiddo | morning |
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| 03:17.51 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2213 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: remove (some) debug output |
| 03:28.14 | LaF0rge | holtmann: do you have all you need now? |
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| 04:11.12 | holtmann | /image//usr/lib/python2.4/site-packages/dbus/introspect_parser.py", line 1, in ? |
| 04:11.12 | holtmann | ImportError: No module named libxml2 |
| 04:11.27 | holtmann | This is still strange. So python-xml seems not to be libxml2 based. |
| 04:11.31 | holtmann | Can someone build that. |
| 04:17.08 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Footer]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] [[Talk:Finger_Toolbar]] [[Supported_microSD_cards]] [[IPhone]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:ETel]] [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[Talk:Templates]] [[User_talk:HaraldWelte]] and other changes |
| 04:19.15 | mickey|fic | uhm |
| 04:19.25 | mickey|fic | ok, that needs tweaking our libxml2 build |
| 04:19.37 | mickey|fic | currently it doesn't build the python extension |
| 04:21.25 | mickey|fic | neither python-xml nor python-pyxml is build on libxml2 btw. |
| 04:21.35 | mickey|fic | looks like we have too many xml libs arond... |
| 04:22.14 | holtmann | Actually only libxml2 should be needed at all. Even for BlueZ, we don't use expat if GLib is available. |
| 04:23.09 | holtmann | Can we build a python-dbus with expat support? |
| 04:25.25 | mickey|fic | might be possible |
| 04:25.30 | mickey|fic | know the config options offhand? |
| 04:29.34 | holtmann | No? Never compiled that by myself. |
| 04:31.34 | mickey|fic | hmm can't find any sign of expat in 0.71 |
| 04:31.43 | mickey|fic | then again, 0.81.1 is current |
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| 04:33.34 | mickey|fic | urhm |
| 04:33.35 | mickey|fic | ok |
| 04:33.40 | mickey|fic | expat came in dbus in v. 08 |
| 04:33.52 | mickey|fic | let me see whether i can add 0.81.1 quickly |
| 04:36.24 | mickey|fic | bbiab, lunch time |
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| 05:43.02 | Sup3rkiddo | hey everyone, i wrote a python extension..its getting built and all...but when i try to import it, its telling me that the module couldnt be found...the ipk has been created although i dont find my modules getting installed properly..anyone know whatsup? |
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| 05:52.28 | mickey|fic | ~lart python extensions using autotools |
| 05:52.28 | apt | brandishes Excalibur! "With this sword, I vanquish thee, python extensions using autotools!" and lops off python extensions using autotools's head |
| 05:52.51 | mickey|fic | holtmann: try 0.81.1 which is now in the same directory |
| 05:53.01 | mickey|fic | that one should be using expat |
| 05:53.05 | sannes | Sup3rkiddo: Do the extension work if you do it manually? Is it only the installation that fails? |
| 05:54.06 | Sup3rkiddo | sannes, only the installation...works if i do it manually on my machine with "python setup.py install" |
| 05:55.19 | sannes | Sup3rkiddo: ah, well I havn't done any ipkg python module installation so I can't help you with that .. heh |
| 05:55.26 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2214 10/trunk/oe/packages/python/ (. allow-older-autotools.patch python-dbus_0.81.1.bb): |
| 05:55.26 | CIA-24 | openmoko: oe/python-dbus: add 0.81.1 as per Marcel Hotmanns request |
| 05:55.26 | CIA-24 | openmoko: NOTE: ~lart python extensions switching from distutils to autotools |
| 05:56.20 | Sup3rkiddo | sannes, ah well... |
| 05:57.06 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 05:57.08 | mickey|fic | Sup3rkiddo: attach your bb to the bugtracker and I'll have a look at some point of time |
| 05:57.40 | Sup3rkiddo | mickey|fic, sure..thanks...but normally inherit distutils is all you need...isnt it |
| 05:58.40 | mickey|fic | yep |
| 05:58.47 | mickey|fic | at least that works for quite a lot of exts |
| 05:59.29 | Sup3rkiddo | weird... |
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| 06:03.56 | Rakshasa | morning |
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| 06:09.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 602 has been created by sudharsh@gmail.com |
| 06:09.02 | cdbot2 | * * Python extensions not getting installed |
| 06:09.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=602 |
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| 06:17.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Expansion_Back]] [[Talk:Debug_Board_v1]] [[Calendar]] [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] [[Footer]] [[Media_Player]] [[Toolbar]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] |
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| 06:29.41 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:31.09 | *** join/#openmoko vanhoofp (n=pvanhoof@62.237.12.2) |
| 06:31.21 | ewanm89 | Morning |
| 06:46.18 | Rince | for the keyboard: I am used to have touch-keyboards like the Tungsten T5 one and from Sony Ericsson the one for the P990i |
| 06:46.29 | Rince | not to mention the Nokia 77 one; so I am used to such keyboards |
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| 07:05.19 | holtmann | This python-dbus dependencies are so ugly. |
| 07:05.37 | holtmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:05.38 | holtmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:05.38 | holtmann | ImportError: No module named cStringIO |
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| 07:06.38 | mickey|fic | holtmann: python-io |
| 07:09.38 | holtmann | Finally. After another two packages, I have the Python D-Bus working. |
| 07:10.42 | mickey|fic | holtmann: cool. please send me a list of all deps, so i can add the appropriate RDEPENDS to the package |
| 07:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-216-157.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:12.39 | holtmann | python-threading python-io python-stringold python-logging |
| 07:12.42 | mickey|fic | thanks |
| 07:13.01 | holtmann | However that python-dbus depends on dbus-dev is wrong. It pulls into libc6-dev. That is bad. |
| 07:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@alcatraz.cendio.se) |
| 07:13.13 | holtmann | Only python-dbus-dev should depend on dbus-dev. |
| 07:13.18 | mickey|fic | sure thin |
| 07:13.18 | mickey|fic | g |
| 07:13.26 | holtmann | And I might missing some dependencies. |
| 07:13.42 | holtmann | python-lang python-re |
| 07:13.52 | holtmann | Are also needed, but dragged in by other python-* packages. |
| 07:14.27 | holtmann | Maybe. At least I think. |
| 07:14.51 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 07:21.58 | Vegar | oh |
| 07:22.03 | Vegar | mickey @ fic? |
| 07:22.04 | Vegar | interesting |
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| 07:36.27 | mickey|fic | ya. working in Taipei atm. |
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| 07:43.47 | ossman | holtmann, ping |
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| 07:58.07 | holtmann | ossman: Hey. What's up. |
| 07:58.50 | ossman | well it's monday, so mostly down ;) |
| 07:59.01 | *** join/#openmoko aimka (n=aimka@my.boss.is.tramber.org) |
| 07:59.13 | ossman | I just wanted to tell you that the SDIO stuff is finally on track, in case you're still interested |
| 08:02.55 | Stephmw | heya |
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| 08:11.24 | holtmann | ossman: Sounds great. I was talking to Intel about and we need it. Especially interfacing also the Bluetooth chips over SDIO might make sense in the future. |
| 08:11.33 | holtmann | Do you have a public git tree for testing? |
| 08:12.46 | ossman | yup, http://git.kernel.org/?p=linux/kernel/git/drzeus/mmc.git;a=summary |
| 08:12.52 | ossman | I do not keep a clean history at this point though, so use with care |
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| 08:14.05 | ninHer | hi all |
| 08:14.29 | holtmann | Do you have a skeleton driver. I might start with the Bluetooth SDIO driver soon. Just finished cleaning the Bluetooth USB driver. |
| 08:15.13 | ossman | not yet, no. the driver matching is still missing |
| 08:15.31 | ossman | also, I don't have any hw with specs, so rev.eng. the cards is eating a lot of time :/ |
| 08:15.56 | ossman | but nicolas pitre has written some CIS parsing, so driver matching should be close by |
| 08:16.44 | ossman | interrupts are also still missing |
| 08:17.55 | *** join/#openmoko summatus[GRAD] (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
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| 08:19.00 | holtmann | I have the Bluetooth cards with documentation. So that should be easy. |
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| 08:19.56 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2215 10/trunk/oe/packages/python/ (4 files in 2 dirs): oe/python-dbus: add some RDEPENDS |
| 08:21.05 | hrw | BT USB.. I have to check my logitech hid bt dongle one day again |
| 08:21.48 | Sup3rkiddo | doesnt gsmd run in qemu? |
| 08:28.21 | *** join/#openmoko aesci99 (n=aesci99@221.221.134.148) |
| 08:29.20 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2216 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe/openmoko-sound-system: set alsa fragment_size and use trivial resampling method |
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| 08:47.03 | *** join/#openmoko Nix- (n=Nix@opensuse/developer/nix) |
| 08:47.46 | Nix- | nix: who are you and why are u using my acocunt? |
| 08:47.46 | aloril | Nix-: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 08:53.26 | holtmann | Do we have a DHCP client in one of the packages. |
| 08:53.52 | koen | holtmann: udhcpc -i <interface> |
| 08:54.07 | koen | should be installed by default (being part of busybox) |
| 08:55.23 | Vegar | Nix-: use /msg nickserv ghost |
| 08:55.42 | Nix- | yes. I know.. |
| 08:56.04 | Nix- | This guy is really annoying me though |
| 08:56.23 | sxpert-work | ok. I have both gcc-4.x and 3.4.6 installed on my system. would there be a way to specify using 3.4.6 for the mokomakefile ? |
| 08:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko infernixx (n=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 08:56.44 | CM | sxpert-work: Gentoo? |
| 08:57.08 | sxpert-work | CM: yes |
| 08:57.50 | CM | sxpert-work: I'm in the same situation. Needed 3.x for qemu. Shouldn't just using gcc-config work? |
| 08:57.56 | CM | And then source the profile again |
| 08:58.22 | sxpert-work | CM: using gcc-config modifies the compiler for the entire system. that's bork |
| 08:58.39 | sxpert-work | as gcc4 has much better c++ support |
| 08:58.56 | sxpert-work | qemu should probably be fixed instead |
| 08:58.57 | CM | Sure, but just turn it on while compiling with the makefile |
| 08:59.03 | CM | Definitely.. |
| 08:59.32 | holtmann | root@fic-gta01:~$ avahi-autoipd bnep0 |
| 08:59.32 | holtmann | socket() failed: Address family not supported by protocol |
| 08:59.43 | holtmann | This is bad. No idea why. Maybe our avahi packages are too old. |
| 08:59.55 | koen | af_packet? |
| 09:00.23 | holtmann | No idea? |
| 09:00.50 | koen | kernel hackers like to make that a module, while it is needed for virtually everything |
| 09:00.57 | sxpert-work | CM: switching to 3.4.6 requires recompiling monotone |
| 09:00.57 | koen | and since harald is a kernel hacker.... |
| 09:01.12 | CM | sxpert-work: Argh.. |
| 09:01.27 | roh | sxpert-work nobody suggested switching gcc. just add 3.4 additionally to your system |
| 09:01.45 | sxpert-work | roh: yes, but it still can't find it, apparently |
| 09:02.01 | roh | the buildsys of qemu will take 3.x by choise, if installed correctly |
| 09:02.10 | roh | eh choice |
| 09:02.18 | sxpert-work | http://rafb.net/p/DgmCFP96.html |
| 09:02.27 | roh | sxpert-work eh.. does your gcc also respond to gcc32? |
| 09:02.30 | Sup3rkiddo | just wondering doesnt the gsmd daemon run in the qemu build..i tried running the libgsmd-tool sample app, but exits complaining that it couldn connect to gsmd...or do i need a device to test libgsmd out? |
| 09:02.48 | ewanm89 | sxpert-work: What distro is it? |
| 09:02.49 | Sup3rkiddo | sxpert-work, using gentoo? |
| 09:02.52 | sxpert-work | yes |
| 09:02.55 | roh | *sigh* |
| 09:03.06 | Sup3rkiddo | sxpert-work, use gcc-config to switch the compiler |
| 09:03.14 | sxpert-work | I have "gcc", "gcc-3.4.6", "gcc-4.1.2" |
| 09:03.30 | sxpert-work | Sup3rkiddo: no, that would force me to recompile monotone too. |
| 09:03.35 | sxpert-work | this is b0rk |
| 09:03.54 | Sup3rkiddo | sxpert-work, i had to do that btw.. |
| 09:04.03 | sxpert-work | there has to be a way to tell the stupid qemu makefile to search for gcc-3.4.6 or somethign |
| 09:04.17 | roh | gcc3_list="gcc-3.4 gcc34 gcc-3.3 gcc33 gcc-3.2 gcc32" |
| 09:04.25 | roh | thats the names it tries. |
| 09:04.26 | ewanm89 | I probably will later today as well. |
| 09:05.15 | roh | gentoo seems to name its gcc out of default |
| 09:05.25 | CM | roh: Ah, should do an ln -s gcc-3.4.6 gcc-3.4 then |
| 09:05.32 | Sup3rkiddo | sxpert-work, try changing the gcc4 symlink to gcc3 just for a while |
| 09:05.39 | rwhitby | roh: except on gentoo I think gcc32 is the 32-bit version of a different gcc version :-) |
| 09:05.48 | sxpert-work | ok. added a link from 'gcc-3.4.6' to 'gcc-3.4', which worked |
| 09:06.07 | roh | rwhitby even worse ;) |
| 09:06.24 | ewanm89 | monotone will probably still needed to be compiled with that version of gcc too to get it to link properly. |
| 09:06.29 | sxpert-work | but of course, it stopped working after a while; this thing doesn't appear to be 64 bit friendly |
| 09:06.37 | roh | sxpert-work eventually you will need to do that for more binaryanames |
| 09:06.46 | holtmann | koen: Thanks. Just putting the bits and pieces together. |
| 09:07.03 | sxpert-work | http://rafb.net/p/FqeC5H10.html |
| 09:07.11 | rwhitby | 64-bit gentoo seems to be the anathema of most build systems :-) |
| 09:07.33 | holtmann | Can someone also build bridge-utils. |
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| 09:07.46 | holtmann | And the bridge kernel module :) |
| 09:07.48 | sxpert-work | rwhitby: more like "64 bit gentoo is a good test to ferret out b0rk build systems" :D |
| 09:07.57 | koen | holtmann: I've had enough boards that were useless since af-packet was a module and needed a network to install ... |
| 09:08.11 | CM | sxpert-work: I think we need a vmware image with a complete buildsystem in |
| 09:08.15 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: that too - depends if you want to get something done, or fight with build systems :-) |
| 09:08.35 | koen | 64bit gentoo on a bigendian system |
| 09:08.36 | Sup3rkiddo | can anyone please take a look at bug #602, and tell me whatsup...need to get some sleep once its fixed |
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| 09:09.10 | sxpert-work | CM: vmware is evil proprietary crap. don't want to touch that thing with a 10 foot pole |
| 09:09.25 | holtmann | koen: Do you know if that is fixed with the OpenMoko kernel or do I have to install a kernel package? |
| 09:09.42 | CM | sxpert-work: Well, xen then. :) |
| 09:10.17 | koen | CONFIG_PACKET=m |
| 09:10.31 | koen | holtmann: looks like you need to install extra modules :( |
| 09:12.03 | holtmann | Crap. This is bad. |
| 09:14.22 | bluelightning_ | sxpert-work: vmware's a good product. if you want an open alternative, qemu also works (IIRC it even supports vmware images) |
| 09:15.18 | hads | It is a good product |
| 09:15.49 | rwhitby | but I wouldn't suggest packaging the openmoko build system in vmware, cause that would force my choice on others which is not what freedom is all about. |
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| 09:16.58 | sxpert-work | bluelightning_: that requires compiling it first :D |
| 09:17.23 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: there are binaries available for windows ;-) |
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| 09:18.23 | bluelightning_ | rwhitby: a live CD image would be another possibility... you could use that from any vm system or even on a real box |
| 09:18.48 | rwhitby | yeah, a debian or ubuntu live cd would probably be best |
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| 09:20.06 | sxpert-work | rwhitby: yeah, riiiight ! |
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| 09:22.48 | TRIsoft | morning all |
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| 09:24.31 | sxpert-work | imho, fixing qemu would probably be more useful |
| 09:25.15 | rwhitby | does qemu run on non-x86 hosts? |
| 09:25.30 | Shoragan | rwitby, yes |
| 09:25.38 | sxpert-work | does qemu *requires* x86 ? |
| 09:25.45 | sxpert-work | 32 bits that is ? |
| 09:25.49 | Shoragan | http://fabrice.bellard.free.fr/qemu/status.html |
| 09:25.58 | sxpert-work | in which case, I'm losing my time here |
| 09:26.29 | sxpert-work | ok. I'm losing my time according to this chart |
| 09:26.38 | CM | No.. Why? |
| 09:27.05 | sxpert-work | CM: well, that thing doesn't compile, period. |
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| 09:27.39 | CM | sxpert-work: Yes, failed for me too. |
| 09:27.42 | Shoragan | sxpert, on which architecture? |
| 09:27.52 | sxpert-work | gentoo-x86-64 |
| 09:27.59 | hrw | rwhitby: it does |
| 09:28.12 | hrw | rwhitby: I use qemu on x86-64, people use it on ppc |
| 09:28.50 | sxpert-work | mebbe on debian or something, but it doesn't work on other distributions, hence it is b0rk |
| 09:29.13 | Shoragan | debian has qemu packages for amd64 i386 and ppc |
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| 09:29.38 | sxpert-work | see, there you go. forcing people into using distros they don't want to use |
| 09:30.21 | Shoragan | huh? if it builds on debian, it should also be possible to compile it on gentoo |
| 09:30.49 | Shoragan | debian may have some compatibility patches... |
| 09:31.07 | CM | I think it's the combination of 64-bit and gcc-4.x that is messing things up |
| 09:31.20 | rwhitby | gentoo is a multiverse of distros, all compiled slightly differently :-) |
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| 09:33.24 | balrog-kun | sxpert-work: it is being developed on a x86_64 gentoo |
| 09:34.00 | antenagora | counter |
| 09:34.01 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 01:12:59 (4.051±4.1 days) (1435;229) |
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| 09:40.06 | LuitvD | buz: looks like e28 didn't release the e2881 yet :P |
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| 09:44.01 | holtmann | So is there an easy way to get AF_PACKET support without building a new kernel. |
| 09:45.25 | hrw | "ipkg install kernel-module-af-packet" probably |
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| 09:54.55 | holtmann | So why is kernel-module-af-packet not installed with the default devel image? |
| 09:57.49 | balrog-kun | for me though it had more networking stuff enabled than i needed |
| 09:59.22 | hrw | holtmann: basically do "ipkg install kernel-modules" to get all of them. I do not know why openmoko guys configured kernel that way |
| 10:00.44 | koen | hrw: the problem I had a few months ago was a rootfs without af-packet, ide-cs and mmc-block driver |
| 10:16.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Pander]] |
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| 10:34.32 | fledermaus | aloril: counter |
| 10:34.33 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 00:42:43 (4.030±4.0 days) (1436;229) |
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| 12:23.24 | fish_ | re |
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| 12:41.59 | fledermaus | is there any news about the availability of the moko? |
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| 12:57.11 | CM | counter |
| 12:57.11 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 23:31:24 (3.980±4.0 days) (1437;229) |
| 12:57.45 | aloril | fledermaus: haven't heard any |
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| 13:10.39 | daxxar | Is there any ML I can subscribe to for announce about preorder and order? |
| 13:14.16 | sannes | daxxar: yes, the annoncement mailing list |
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| 13:46.55 | cheesy | counter |
| 13:46.55 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 23:06:32 (3.963±4.0 days) (1438;229) |
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| 13:49.01 | xl0 | They's better say it will be released in september, and come with a release in a week. ;) |
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| 14:17.08 | aloril | hehe, actually there is *no* date at all |
| 14:17.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FOSDEM_2007]] |
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| 15:01.00 | kiney_ | counter |
| 15:01.00 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 22:29:30 (3.937±3.9 days) (1439;229) |
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| 15:28.07 | LuitvD | http://news.yahoo.com/s/infoworld/20070611/tc_infoworld/89251 |
| 15:28.12 | LuitvD | looks promising |
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| 15:40.26 | Tronic | Is that related to this project? |
| 15:43.53 | florian | Tronic: hum well... not directly, but it should maybe ;) |
| 15:45.09 | Tronic | At least they chose GTK :) |
| 15:45.21 | Tronic | I don't like Qt's license options. |
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| 15:55.26 | CoreDump | hi |
| 15:55.39 | mickey|fic | ho |
| 15:58.26 | fledermaus | who are you calling a ho? |
| 15:59.06 | Elrond | Hi CoreDump and mickey|fic :) |
| 16:01.27 | *** join/#openmoko sleon (n=sleon@87.139.119.123) |
| 16:01.29 | sleon | hi all |
| 16:01.37 | sleon | can you already buy openmoko in europe ? |
| 16:01.37 | aloril | sleon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 16:01.47 | SpeedEvil | No. |
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| 16:01.54 | SpeedEvil | Nor anywhere. |
| 16:02.15 | sleon | SpeedEvil: do you know when it would be possible ? |
| 16:02.26 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:02.35 | SpeedEvil | I would guess it's a couple of weeks out at least. |
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| 16:04.07 | alUrdun | Is there a waiting list for orders for the neo? |
| 16:04.11 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:04.20 | *** part/#openmoko sleon (n=sleon@87.139.119.123) |
| 16:04.37 | Sup3rkiddo | everyone does *sigh* |
| 16:04.52 | SpeedEvil | There is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List |
| 16:04.57 | SpeedEvil | but... |
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| 16:06.21 | don-o | ive actually stopping thinking about openmoko as a hardware project. |
| 16:06.37 | don-o | i ran the emulator last night. found out my laptop is too slow to run it. :( |
| 16:06.45 | happycube | ouch |
| 16:06.56 | don-o | so i just think of openmoko as a software project (which it is of course) |
| 16:07.11 | don-o | happycube: 800mhz apparently doesnt cut it. |
| 16:07.23 | Elrond | don-o - Yeah. Rince (I think, he has a fast laptop) told me, that the P0 is even faster than the enulation... which is... hum. |
| 16:07.24 | happycube | nod* |
| 16:07.52 | SpeedEvil | Qemu has a big slowdown. |
| 16:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 16:09.01 | alUrdun | It'll be interesting to see if the initial run produced is going to be sufficient to meet demand. Currently just over 300 folks have expressed interest, but I'd guess that # will go up quickly when the release is announced. |
| 16:09.07 | *** join/#openmoko _ASK_ (n=chatzill@189.146.139.22) |
| 16:09.09 | Elrond | Hmmm.... http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#Bluetooth says, that the BT module is class 2. Class2 is 60m or so, right? |
| 16:09.15 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 16:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.38.171) |
| 16:09.23 | SpeedEvil | class 2 is the short range one. |
| 16:09.24 | SpeedEvil | 10m |
| 16:09.41 | Elrond | Hmm. |
| 16:09.54 | mjr | as long as I get inttahweb from my couch |
| 16:09.57 | Elrond | In my test, the Neo could not connect to a nokia at 5m. |
| 16:10.08 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 16:10.47 | Elrond | s/nokia/nokia and other smartphone thingy |
| 16:11.00 | Elrond | We had to put them next to each other to play a little with BT. |
| 16:11.48 | don-o | alUrdun: it will be interesting. im #97 on the list although i dont know if that makes a difference. |
| 16:11.51 | cheesy | wifi will be great :) |
| 16:12.25 | don-o | the accelerometers will be fun. |
| 16:12.32 | *** join/#openmoko agoode (n=agoode@64.252.123.102) |
| 16:12.33 | alUrdun | I have wifi on my current handset, and I love it. The coolest part is being able to pull it out and kill off a couple of RSS feeds whenever I have a spare moment. |
| 16:12.35 | fledermaus | accelerometers? |
| 16:14.19 | don-o | fledermaus: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-June/005512.html |
| 16:14.20 | alUrdun | Is anyone here interested in mentoring a complete n00b who's interested in getting involved in the project? |
| 16:14.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - While you're here: (I'm considering to put up a wishlist entry) What's a nice english polite term for "low budet". (I don't need wifi or acceloremeters, or 3d games). |
| 16:14.20 | cheesy | i truly look forward to that moment i could do some lightsaber sounds with my neo |
| 16:14.21 | don-o | cheesy: ha. |
| 16:14.21 | mjr | what's wrong with "low budget"? |
| 16:15.11 | Elrond | mjr - I'm not a native english speaker. So I don't know, if it's a good term. |
| 16:16.01 | koen | low bidet |
| 16:16.37 | mjr | I see. Well, me neither, but I don't see anything wrong in wishing for a "low budget" version |
| 16:16.38 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 16:16.43 | fledermaus | the "low" is surplus to requirements. You can just say "budget" |
| 16:17.33 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@220.Red-83-32-166.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 16:17.41 | mjr | Yeah, that's okay too |
| 16:17.43 | Elrond | koen - *giggle* |
| 16:17.43 | _llll_ | hmm, i'd prefer "low bugdet" to just "budget" |
| 16:18.04 | _llll_ | a budget is just how much money you have available |
| 16:18.15 | fledermaus | I am well aware of the meaning of the word. |
| 16:18.24 | ninHer | hi all |
| 16:18.36 | Elrond | Hi ninHer |
| 16:18.41 | fledermaus | however in the context in which it is being used, a native speaker would expect to see the word budget used on its own as a modifier. |
| 16:18.47 | ninHer | hi Elrond |
| 16:18.57 | _llll_ | this native speaker would not |
| 16:19.10 | _llll_ | i would probably understand it tho |
| 16:19.26 | Elrond | "non bloated" ;o) |
| 16:19.42 | alUrdun | Budget as a merketing term has a connotation of 'low budget'. As in 'Buy this if you're on a budget.' |
| 16:19.46 | fledermaus | budget airlines. budget car rentals. suitable for a customer on a budget. |
| 16:20.11 | *** join/#openmoko lrak (n=kbeldan@def92-4-82-224-196-1.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:21.12 | Elrond | Hmm, the connotation I'm looking for is "less features, but still high qiality". |
| 16:21.28 | Elrond | s/qiality/quality |
| 16:21.41 | SpeedEvil | Economy version - is an option. |
| 16:21.51 | SpeedEvil | Or 'less fully featured'. |
| 16:22.14 | fledermaus | Neo DX and Neo SX :) |
| 16:22.33 | Elrond | *G* :-) |
| 16:22.41 | SpeedEvil | I'd like a version with a 128*160 or so b/w display, BT only, accel, no GPS, GSM |
| 16:23.07 | SpeedEvil | And keypad and track-point not touchscreen. |
| 16:23.12 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - usb for charging? |
| 16:23.19 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 16:24.00 | cheesy | ok after waiting so long everybody should get a costumized version |
| 16:24.07 | Elrond | Yeah, something like this is also closer to what I might buy. :) |
| 16:24.22 | Elrond | cheesy - *G* Like D*ll ? ;o) |
| 16:24.47 | *** join/#openmoko nox-Hand (i=johnhand@unaffiliated/nox-hand) |
| 16:24.50 | SpeedEvil | inexpensive is also a commonly used term. |
| 16:25.03 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh. :) |
| 16:25.33 | cheesy | Elrond: you are confusing me with * and || ;) |
| 16:25.56 | *** join/#openmoko fix_ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-178.upc.chello.be) |
| 16:26.03 | Elrond | cheesy - [X] BT [X] USB (X) 240x320 ( ) 480x640 [ ] wifi |
| 16:26.04 | Elrond | ;o) |
| 16:26.09 | mickey|fic | hehe |
| 16:26.25 | cheesy | :D |
| 16:26.35 | alUrdun | The hardware doesn't so much matter to me. What matters to me is being able to get a terminal on my phone. |
| 16:26.51 | mwester | alUrdun: like you can with a Treo? :) |
| 16:27.35 | Elrond | slider - I tried to use the Terminal and the openmoko-keyboard (on screen) in the train. It took me 1/4 eternity to get BT up. ;o) |
| 16:27.41 | *** join/#openmoko etank (n=etank@ubuntu/member/etank) |
| 16:28.17 | Elrond | mwester - *lol* My mum said, that it looks like some soap. ;o)) |
| 16:29.02 | Elrond | cheesy - Yeah, I like it quite from a design point of view. |
| 16:29.38 | Elrond | cheesy - But my Siemens ME45 is really better for writing SMS ;o) |
| 16:30.41 | cheesy | Elrond: i would really like to have a little qwerty behind that display |
| 16:30.53 | *** join/#openmoko Consty (n=grimlock@user-24-214-96-196.knology.net) |
| 16:31.07 | cheesy | talking about terminal with no keyboard |
| 16:31.18 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:31.40 | cheesy | so you can slide it out |
| 16:31.50 | Elrond | mickey|fic - If I would like to see something on buildhost as ipk, should I just file a wishlist bug? |
| 16:32.32 | cheesy | maybe i should photoshop something like that and everyone gets hot about it and fic will build it ;) |
| 16:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:32.51 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54929A2A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:32.54 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@61-217-193-173.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 16:33.02 | Elrond | Hi LaF0rge :) |
| 16:33.23 | cheesy | hi Elrond |
| 16:33.38 | cheesy | hi cbrake |
| 16:33.43 | cbrake | cheesy: hello |
| 16:34.12 | Elrond | cheesy - (I meant "dell" with the * thingy) |
| 16:34.57 | mickey|fic | Elrond: yeah |
| 16:35.06 | Consty | So when the Neo1973 comes out I can simply pop my Cingular SIM card into it and begin using it? Or will it require some sort of cooperation with them? |
| 16:35.06 | aloril | Consty: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 16:35.19 | mickey|fic | Consty: if it's GSM, it should work |
| 16:35.25 | mickey|fic | s/GSM/GSM SIM card/ |
| 16:35.27 | cheesy | you just dont wanted to name a big company? |
| 16:35.43 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 16:35.44 | Elrond | cheesy - Right. |
| 16:35.54 | SpeedEvil | none are involved ATM |
| 16:36.00 | Consty | How can I tell if it's a GSM Sim card? |
| 16:36.16 | mickey|fic | from the advertising material |
| 16:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:36.39 | mickey|fic | i don't know whether cingular operates gsm or cdma networks |
| 16:36.50 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@141.60.168.3) |
| 16:36.59 | Elrond | LaF0rge - JFI: I tried http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/tmp/neo1973_ethernet.inf on windows xp. I even fixed up the USB-IDs. But it still error'd out. At least it started charging after the half-broken install. ;-) |
| 16:37.03 | cheesy | Elrond: finally i got it |
| 16:37.15 | tholin | I did not know cdma och gsm have different sim cards. |
| 16:40.45 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
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| 16:52.17 | *** join/#openmoko freax (n=pvanhoof@cs78157149.pp.htv.fi) |
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| 16:58.30 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=nm@222.252.39.75) |
| 16:59.14 | alUrdun | Most CDMA carriers don't use SIM cards. |
| 17:00.58 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 17:01.01 | *** join/#openmoko BK (n=chatzill@69-179-106-134.dyn.centurytel.net) |
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| 17:03.59 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-73-66-71.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:04.16 | BeastlyKings | Sup all? |
| 17:04.17 | aloril | BeastlyKings: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@X164f.x.pppool.de) |
| 17:06.05 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics |
| 17:06.05 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Concern for usability and ergonomics |
| 17:09.07 | Elrond | <-- heading home. |
| 17:14.01 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 17:17.25 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.161.147) |
| 17:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 17:18.07 | *** join/#openmoko alurdun_ (n=jordan@64.180.94.253) |
| 17:19.06 | *** join/#openmoko tknudsen (n=tknudsen@c-76-19-173-194.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 17:19.34 | tknudsen | hola. when can I buy an openmoko and leave phone misery behind? |
| 17:19.34 | aloril | tknudsen: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:20.48 | tg | counter? |
| 17:20.48 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 3 days 21:19:36 (3.889±3.9 days) (1439;227) |
| 17:23.26 | aloril | counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) |
| 17:23.26 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) |
| 17:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.123.177.53) |
| 17:29.28 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 17:33.01 | fledermaus | ? |
| 17:37.23 | SpeedEvil | Wiki Vandalism. |
| 17:37.45 | fledermaus | oic. |
| 17:38.53 | SpeedEvil | ~50 spam edits in the last day |
| 17:39.18 | DukeOfURL | I saw those. What does he change? |
| 17:40.02 | SpeedEvil | hundreds of links |
| 17:40.09 | SpeedEvil | free viagra, cialis, ... |
| 17:40.39 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p5481C021.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:40.40 | DukeOfURL | time for invitation-only users on the wiki |
| 17:40.57 | SpeedEvil | The right solution is the anti-spam plugin for mediawiki. |
| 17:41.22 | SpeedEvil | But it has dependancies that the wiki server can't have with the current policy. |
| 17:41.27 | balrog-kun | there should be one person delegated to blocking uncooperative users and doing not much more on the wiki |
| 17:41.37 | balrog-kun | i'm sure there will be plenty of volunteers to do that |
| 17:41.55 | SpeedEvil | Me and one other largely it seems. |
| 17:42.07 | SpeedEvil | I've got a little script that barks when there is an edit. |
| 17:42.29 | balrog-kun | yeah, but instead of reverting the the edits indefinitely, just blocking the authors |
| 17:42.40 | balrog-kun | that requires admin access though |
| 17:42.43 | SpeedEvil | The authors simply make new accounts |
| 17:42.52 | SpeedEvil | they aren't reusing them |
| 17:43.11 | balrog-kun | aham.. |
| 17:43.33 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=data@h-193-67.A148.cust.bahnhof.se) |
| 17:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko slider_ (n=sebastia@d119045.adsl.hansenet.de) |
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| 17:53.30 | *** part/#openmoko etank (n=etank@ubuntu/member/etank) |
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| 17:56.32 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
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| 18:00.49 | LuitvD[eating] | buz: are ya there? |
| 18:00.55 | buz | yes |
| 18:01.10 | buz | aiming cruise missiles at a certain computer maker |
| 18:01.51 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:02.40 | buz | why |
| 18:02.51 | buz | heard from e28? *EG* |
| 18:03.22 | LuitvD[eating] | buz: I know something about it |
| 18:03.34 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.38.171) |
| 18:03.40 | buz | shoot ;) |
| 18:03.46 | buz | i'm all ears |
| 18:03.48 | LuitvD | looks like e2881 won't be out until Q3 |
| 18:04.22 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485C250.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:04.32 | buz | well not much difference to GTA02 then ;) |
| 18:04.37 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 18:04.46 | buz | found anything about the os? |
| 18:04.48 | LuitvD | it was on their timeline for some time |
| 18:05.17 | LuitvD | buz: not really, I guess I should look at e2831's OS |
| 18:05.25 | buz | got one? |
| 18:05.37 | LuitvD | no, but that's one that's already released XD |
| 18:05.53 | buz | well i somehow doubt you will get the os without the phone |
| 18:06.29 | LuitvD | well, I should first look at some user reviews |
| 18:07.23 | buz | you mean people actually buy those? |
| 18:07.32 | LuitvD | I don't know |
| 18:07.38 | buz | somehow, i doubt t |
| 18:07.49 | buz | that would require e28 to actually answer to inquiries |
| 18:08.16 | LuitvD | well, it's a GSM/GPRS phone with cam and wifi |
| 18:08.41 | LuitvD | (and bluetooth) |
| 18:09.13 | buz | its also omap |
| 18:09.14 | tknudsen | all I want is to use my phone as a network interface. I would spend $350 for that. |
| 18:09.37 | buz | make sure to wait until wifi isa vailable then, tknudsen |
| 18:09.42 | buz | and, so would i ;) |
| 18:09.53 | LuitvD | e2831 can do that... |
| 18:10.14 | tknudsen | no, not wifi, that's insecure. I want a wire. |
| 18:10.21 | buz | you know somehing i dont? |
| 18:10.26 | LuitvD | buz: you thought the e2881 would be nice... the e2882 will be wonderful |
| 18:10.40 | buz | any info on that one? |
| 18:10.45 | buz | like uhm vga screen? |
| 18:10.53 | LuitvD | buz: nah, some other nice specs :) |
| 18:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@24-136-28-68.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 18:11.01 | LuitvD | don't know about the screen |
| 18:11.14 | goxboxlive | it's qvga |
| 18:11.27 | buz | got an url? |
| 18:11.33 | goxboxlive | hold on |
| 18:11.36 | LuitvD | it's on the portfolio |
| 18:11.40 | LuitvD | http://www.e28.com/e28mobile/mobile_protfolio.htm |
| 18:11.56 | tknudsen | is e28 different than openmoko? |
| 18:12.02 | buz | yes |
| 18:12.07 | buz | tho we dont really know what it is ;) |
| 18:12.08 | tknudsen | how so? |
| 18:12.18 | LuitvD | 2,8" LCD and keypad, 3G and WiMAX, GPS :) |
| 18:12.56 | buz | what use is a Q3 2008 device |
| 18:13.01 | tknudsen | will phones no longer suck? please leave that memo on my grave. |
| 18:13.03 | LuitvD | meh |
| 18:13.09 | LuitvD | that's the bad part |
| 18:13.16 | buz | what about seans post from today |
| 18:13.17 | DukeOfURL | What is the price of the e2881? |
| 18:13.23 | buz | about those mysterious other devices |
| 18:13.33 | buz | DukeOfURL: nobody knows, e28 wont respond to email |
| 18:13.52 | DukeOfURL | bluesky? |
| 18:13.58 | buz | not entirely |
| 18:14.04 | buz | e28 did ship phones in the past |
| 18:14.24 | balrog-kun | perhaps a pen that explodes, etc |
| 18:15.01 | tknudsen | is the e28 open source? |
| 18:15.09 | buz | i doubt it |
| 18:15.13 | LuitvD | tknudsen: they should be ... |
| 18:15.23 | buz | LuitvD: a lot of devices should be |
| 18:15.42 | goxboxlive | i read somewhere that it was based on the motorola kernel, so i guess it's not. |
| 18:15.48 | tknudsen | I'd rather spend my $350 to solve the long term problem |
| 18:16.01 | LuitvD | buz: well, even motorola releases kernel patches |
| 18:16.14 | buz | motorola STILL didnt release a wifi phone |
| 18:16.18 | buz | they're a hopeless case |
| 18:16.41 | buz | if motorola went bankrupt tomorrow i sure wouldnt care |
| 18:16.53 | LuitvD | yeah, well, the RAZR2 looks nice |
| 18:17.03 | LuitvD | the HSDPA version that is |
| 18:17.25 | buz | HSDPA - so you can get broke even faster |
| 18:17.51 | LuitvD | yeah :) |
| 18:18.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:AGPS]] [[OpenMoko:Community_Portal]] [[Main_Page/ru]] [[Talk:Buying_Interest_List]] [[Wish_List_UserProfile_Geek]] [[Talk:Development_resources]] [[Talk:Main_Page/zh_cn]] [[Talk:Look_%26_Feel]] |
| 18:18.06 | LuitvD | unlimited traffic plan ;) |
| 18:18.58 | aloril2 | at the moment there is only one open source/free software phone and its not yet generally available (Neo1973) |
| 18:19.17 | buz | that's not strictly true |
| 18:19.30 | buz | htc universal can run a fully open stack from what i understand |
| 18:20.00 | buz | (but that only barely qualifies as phone, i admit) |
| 18:20.01 | LuitvD | and more EZX based motorola phones can run a 2,6 kernel |
| 18:20.07 | aloril2 | buz: you can make/receive calls with it? |
| 18:20.16 | buz | aloril2: not entirely sure about that |
| 18:20.31 | buz | lemme check |
| 18:20.43 | mjr | How free is greenphone btw nowadays? I have the impression that the Qtopia stack was changed to proprietary+GPL licensing at least... Not that I'm as excited about that particular project anyways. |
| 18:21.07 | LuitvD | mjr: a full sdk is 800 bucks |
| 18:21.40 | high-rez | counter |
| 18:21.40 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 20:49:10 (3.867±3.9 days) (1440;227) |
| 18:21.53 | high-rez | man - this counter is moving closer to the never point. |
| 18:21.56 | buz | GSM/GPRS/UMTS is tested and works |
| 18:22.27 | mjr | LuitvD, http://trolltech.com/products/qtopia/greenphone/greenphone_pricing "Greenphone Community SDK" says that $695 for the device, no licensing costs (under GPL v2.0) |
| 18:22.51 | buz | mjr: i think qtopia phone itself is not gpl |
| 18:22.57 | LuitvD | mjr: but that's just the community SDK |
| 18:22.58 | buz | only plain qtopia |
| 18:22.58 | alurdun_ | 3rd party development for iPhone will be web-based apps only. |
| 18:23.03 | alurdun_ | Just announced. |
| 18:23.12 | buz | lol |
| 18:23.13 | mjr | buz, I see. |
| 18:23.15 | alurdun_ | Weak. |
| 18:23.26 | buz | so before, they blocked web apps in the browser? |
| 18:23.26 | happycube | we can add that to openmoko! |
| 18:23.33 | zecke | buz: because they didn't build the hardware (trolltech) |
| 18:23.44 | mjr | LuitvD, well, I'm basically trying to find out what isn't in the Community SDK, 'cause if it's just the permission to create proprietary apps, that wouldn't be a big deal... |
| 18:23.52 | aloril2 | mjr: not sure, but I think calling part ('gpsd') is closed in greenphone |
| 18:23.59 | buz | zecke: even you source phones from odm, you can generally get features |
| 18:24.02 | happycube | gsmd? |
| 18:24.13 | buz | http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Universal |
| 18:24.20 | buz | sounds like universal is the first fully open phone |
| 18:24.24 | mjr | aloril2, right |
| 18:24.27 | zecke | buz: well it is a phone as sold in China with a green case |
| 18:24.37 | happycube | also isnt iphone 'only' 480x272? |
| 18:24.51 | buz | you mean they force people to use the reportedly very crashy thing? |
| 18:25.00 | buz | heck it says dont use this as phone upon boot |
| 18:25.00 | tknudsen | how come no shopping cart for the dev phone? |
| 18:25.13 | LuitvD | goddammit, every current device is useless for my needs |
| 18:25.31 | tknudsen | openmoko could sell a lot of dev phones if there was a shopping cart!! |
| 18:25.33 | pH5 | buz: htc magician is at about the same level as htc universal. I can make and receive calls with openmoko-dialer as long as it doesn't segfault. |
| 18:25.43 | goxboxlive | :-) |
| 18:26.05 | LuitvD | EDGE is useless here :( |
| 18:26.17 | balrog-kun | h5400 can also make and receive calls under linux afaik |
| 18:26.26 | SpeedEvil | gg virgin edge |
| 18:26.28 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 18:26.28 | buz | how about tytn? |
| 18:26.29 | pH5 | unfortunately we don't boot either of them from mtd yet. |
| 18:26.43 | baird- | Apple's iPhone is going to use AJAX 'applications'... Doable here? |
| 18:26.54 | pH5 | tytn is needs more work, I think the flash and sd-on-ati-chip are major hurdles. |
| 18:26.59 | buz | mhh magician is 500EUR without contract here |
| 18:27.16 | pH5 | oy, that's way too much. |
| 18:27.21 | buz | ati? NFW that gets near me |
| 18:27.35 | zecke | pH5: did you try to debug gsmd crashes yet? |
| 18:27.48 | alurdun_ | buz: re iPhone -- the Safari they're running will do ajax, etc., so they're trying to emphasize the fact that the web apps it will run will be more impressive than what the average handset will do. Of course, they're glossing over the fact that there will be no true 3rd party apps, which makes it even more closed that Win Mobile. |
| 18:28.06 | aloril2 | happycube: its calles that way in OpenMoko, no idea what it is called in qtopia+whatever SDK |
| 18:28.50 | buz | win mobile |
| 18:28.57 | buz | is in some way less closed than symbian 9 |
| 18:28.59 | LuitvD | buz: stop swearing |
| 18:29.03 | pH5 | zecke: I've never seen gsmd segfault here. though it likes to hang in certain situations. |
| 18:29.04 | LuitvD | :P |
| 18:29.17 | buz | but symbian9 beats the living shit out of winmobile |
| 18:29.35 | LuitvD | N95 has symbian9? |
| 18:29.56 | alurdun_ | buz: At least as a developer with free (thru work) access to Microsoft development tools I can write my own apps for it. |
| 18:30.13 | alurdun_ | Not that I'm defending proprietary platforms, mind you. |
| 18:30.30 | buz | i think symbian sdk is free for download even |
| 18:31.01 | alurdun_ | Perhaps. An API is not source code, however. |
| 18:31.19 | *** join/#openmoko dennisharrison (n=dennisha@68-114-124-171.dhcp.slid.la.charter.com) |
| 18:31.23 | LuitvD | hmm, symbian9 is quite nice indeed |
| 18:31.26 | dennisharrison | ok .. wow |
| 18:31.37 | dennisharrison | I can't believe I didn't hear about this until today |
| 18:32.12 | dennisharrison | the mailing list subscription links are borked on the gforge site projects.openmoko.org |
| 18:32.44 | dennisharrison | who is working on what? |
| 18:32.44 | aloril | dennisharrison: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:32.48 | alurdun_ | I'm gonna put out the same question I did a while ago -- anyone wanna be a resource to help a total n00b (me) to get involved in the project? |
| 18:32.49 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki) |
| 18:33.04 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p5481C021.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:33.12 | dennisharrison | alurdun_, what do you want to do? |
| 18:33.26 | dennisharrison | I am looking for whoever started the asterisk implementation |
| 18:33.38 | dennisharrison | I see it is only in planning right now, and I am sure it will stay that way for a while :) |
| 18:33.58 | dennisharrison | but I have a lot of time/code to add to that project |
| 18:34.07 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 18:34.42 | aloril2 | tknudsen: Neo1973 not yet available, hopefully soon (some guesses: |
| 18:34.51 | aloril2 | counter |
| 18:34.51 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 3 days 20:42:34 (3.863±3.9 days) (1441;227) |
| 18:34.56 | aloril2 | ) |
| 18:35.01 | Sup3rkiddo | alurdun_, i am a n00b as well..am writing python bindings for openmoko |
| 18:35.06 | LuitvD | http://developer.symbian.com/main/tools/sdks/index.jsp |
| 18:35.12 | LuitvD | symbian SDKs |
| 18:35.45 | LuitvD | symbian9 is S60 |
| 18:35.53 | Elrond | Good evening. |
| 18:36.40 | LuitvD | evenin' |
| 18:36.55 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, what functionality are you focusing on for your pybindings? |
| 18:37.40 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, right now..libgsmd, my team leads into doing some hacks to the runtime |
| 18:37.58 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@24-136-28-68.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 18:38.07 | Sup3rkiddo | *my team lead is into.. |
| 18:38.26 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, what are you guys hacking on? |
| 18:38.40 | pH5 | hi Elrond |
| 18:38.58 | dennisharrison | like, I know libgsmd but what functionality is the goal? |
| 18:39.29 | dennisharrison | I have been developing call center solutions for about a decade |
| 18:39.39 | dennisharrison | and this is a very exciting project to me |
| 18:39.46 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, you are a demi god then.. |
| 18:39.57 | Elrond | Hi pH5! |
| 18:40.12 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, lol, I wish more people felt that way :) j/k |
| 18:40.32 | alurdun_ | dennisharrison: Thing is, my coding skills are infantile, at best. I'm a DB developer, and have done very little else. I need an easy path to start getting up to speed. Other than that, I'll do the sh!t work -- the project equivalent of digging ditches. |
| 18:40.55 | dennisharrison | alurdun_, what is your interest? I will help you. |
| 18:41.36 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, you guys have a mailing list ? |
| 18:41.48 | alurdun_ | dennisharrison: What do you work on? |
| 18:42.13 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, not yet...developement started 2 days ago :)...and team lead is kinda missing in action...he is sick |
| 18:42.26 | dennisharrison | I am going to build on top of the stack at the lowest level I can to help create an asterisk interface api using python and zope |
| 18:42.41 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, cool.. |
| 18:42.53 | buz | zope? |
| 18:42.56 | buz | oh please no |
| 18:43.14 | dennisharrison | lol, you don't like z3 eh? :) |
| 18:43.26 | dennisharrison | the zope will be on the asterisk server and not the phone |
| 18:43.41 | buz | yeah i kinda figured that ;) |
| 18:43.41 | dennisharrison | lol |
| 18:44.07 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, maybe this might help http://www.vivekkhurana.com/pymoko/2007/03/19/preparing-for-takeoff/ |
| 18:44.35 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, thanks, reading now |
| 18:44.41 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@141.60.168.3) |
| 18:44.55 | dennisharrison | buz, you could use another db if you wanted very easily I am sure |
| 18:45.01 | dennisharrison | but my personal project will be zope |
| 18:45.08 | buz | if oyu use zope as db only, somethings wrong |
| 18:45.23 | dennisharrison | well thats the point :) |
| 18:46.01 | dennisharrison | our current project is zasterisk (original ... I know ...) |
| 18:46.42 | dennisharrison | its using z3 mostly as a call center tool |
| 18:46.54 | dennisharrison | with an admin interface for asterisk config |
| 18:47.26 | dennisharrison | but the main focus of the project is to give legs to asterisk in a wider world of decentralized solutions |
| 18:47.45 | dennisharrison | the crm aspect is based on the core system in use at rackspace currently |
| 18:47.53 | dennisharrison | in methodology only |
| 18:47.57 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB4CF1C.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:49.36 | buz | well asterisk is overkill for me anyhow |
| 18:49.39 | dennisharrison | I want to use these phones as a remote extension of the call center / customer support / sales aspects of a medium to large business |
| 18:50.05 | buz | WTF |
| 18:50.10 | buz | safari for windows??? |
| 18:50.35 | buz | on the plus side, no more need to grab a mac to test sites in safari |
| 18:51.11 | happycube | :) |
| 18:51.50 | cxreg | buz: that's what you think |
| 18:51.56 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=webjames@82-46-37-48.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:51.57 | cxreg | buz: what it really means is now you have to test *both* |
| 18:52.02 | cxreg | :) |
| 18:52.05 | buz | point |
| 18:52.09 | buz | or ignore i |
| 18:52.10 | buz | t |
| 18:52.13 | cxreg | touche |
| 18:52.16 | buz | because only total masochist will use it |
| 18:52.29 | webjames | Hello! |
| 18:52.31 | *** join/#openmoko esden_ (n=esden@141.60.168.3) |
| 18:54.13 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:54.42 | dennisharrison | well |
| 18:54.43 | dennisharrison | I mean |
| 18:54.44 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 18:54.48 | dennisharrison | ok, so yeah, thats windows |
| 18:54.55 | dennisharrison | great |
| 18:55.13 | dennisharrison | guess thats another piece of software on the vm's :) |
| 18:55.20 | buz | yes |
| 18:56.31 | alurdun_ | dennisharrison: I'm not yet knowledgeable enough to know what I want to do, other than I want to do something. |
| 18:57.28 | dennisharrison | alurdun_, what problems do you see abroad that can be solved with this? And out of those, which are you most passionate about? |
| 18:59.16 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, well, I would love to talk to you guys about the project |
| 18:59.27 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, I will stay idle here |
| 18:59.51 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, hmm...cool..my team lead's name is empty_mind |
| 18:59.59 | Sup3rkiddo | i meant nick |
| 19:00.07 | dennisharrison | understood |
| 19:00.52 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@141.60.168.3) |
| 19:01.09 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, its around 1230 mdnight here..so i doubt if he will turn up..can i pm you his email id.. |
| 19:01.19 | Sup3rkiddo | besides he is sick for some time |
| 19:01.30 | alurdun_ | dennisharrison: It may sound trite, but what I'm most passionate about is having open access to the software I use. The reality of my life includes a cell phone, and as a linux user I'm used to having freedom with the software I use daily. |
| 19:01.48 | *** join/#openmoko andrer (n=andrer@200.130.18.1) |
| 19:02.12 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, yes please :) |
| 19:02.23 | andrer | is there a list of already available apps for the moko platform? |
| 19:02.23 | aloril | andrer: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:02.50 | alurdun_ | dennisharrison: I also wouldn't mind having a good excuse to learn python. |
| 19:02.57 | SpeedEvil | andred_: the 'applications' page on the wiki. |
| 19:03.13 | SpeedEvil | Besically, very few completed or semi-working apps. |
| 19:04.33 | *** join/#openmoko ahbritto (n=guest@adsl-64-161-117-110.dsl.snfc21.pacbell.net) |
| 19:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@141.60.168.3) |
| 19:06.46 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@p5485C250.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:06.55 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, got it? |
| 19:07.11 | dennisharrison | yep sent an email |
| 19:07.23 | dennisharrison | thanks Sup3rkiddo |
| 19:07.50 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, no problem...happy to do my part |
| 19:08.20 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, what are you working on in the project? |
| 19:09.16 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, more like working and learning on the go...my goal is to create bindings for openmoko...am starting with libgsmd and hopefully do some gui stuff later on |
| 19:10.05 | dennisharrison | yeah well we have a gtk guy in house |
| 19:10.11 | dennisharrison | so he can help with that for sure |
| 19:10.21 | dennisharrison | I mean .. obviously he does more then just gtk :) |
| 19:10.26 | dennisharrison | but ... its something else he is very good at |
| 19:10.38 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, :D, cant wait.. |
| 19:11.55 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, the real problem i am facing now is this weird bug, where my extesnions arent getting installed...pretty much stuck there |
| 19:12.45 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, what is the install method? |
| 19:13.02 | dennisharrison | Sup3rkiddo, I have known about openmoko for about an hour now :) |
| 19:13.07 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, from the bitbake recipe.. |
| 19:13.10 | dennisharrison | so, I still don't know what the dev tools look like |
| 19:13.20 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, ah ok |
| 19:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485C250.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:13.48 | dennisharrison | I will catch on fast , so give me the lowdown :) |
| 19:14.01 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, we have some links put up at the forums in out project page...might be useful |
| 19:14.07 | Sup3rkiddo | *our |
| 19:14.19 | dennisharrison | hehe |
| 19:14.22 | dennisharrison | some go juice :) |
| 19:14.33 | dennisharrison | I am checking it out now Sup3rkiddo |
| 19:14.48 | Sup3rkiddo | dennisharrison, right |
| 19:22.05 | *** join/#openmoko digVer_ (n=digger@pool-71-242-85-211.phlapa.east.verizon.net) |
| 19:26.37 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-226-174.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
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| 19:41.19 | SrRaven | so hows the development of the openmoko plattform going ? |
| 19:41.33 | SpeedEvil | Seems solid. |
| 19:41.46 | SrRaven | :P |
| 19:41.56 | SpeedEvil | I suspect development will speed up once more people get hardware. |
| 19:41.59 | seemant | except on the northwest corner |
| 19:42.20 | *** join/#openmoko zell1983 (n=zell1983@host85-123-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 19:42.28 | SrRaven | so im wondering,is it more focused to be used with fingers or with a stylus |
| 19:43.08 | SpeedEvil | It seems that a moderate amount will need the stylus. |
| 19:43.24 | SpeedEvil | There is no text entry method at the moment for fingers, for example. |
| 19:43.41 | SpeedEvil | I'm working on several ideas for that - but... |
| 19:44.18 | SrRaven | because currently I always compare the Iphone and openmoko and wonder if you will be able to use the openmoko so smoothly |
| 19:44.55 | Elrond | smoothly? |
| 19:45.02 | SpeedEvil | Probably not - at least for phase 1. (the one that will be available in a few dawy/weeks) |
| 19:45.10 | SrRaven | yeah elrond |
| 19:45.12 | SpeedEvil | Tehre is no hardware graphics accellerator |
| 19:48.01 | Elrond | (running gdb on a phone feels... funny) |
| 19:48.26 | SpeedEvil | http://www.3g.co.uk/PR/June2007/4755.htm (not related) the worlds first voice automatic handover of multi-mode TD-SCDMA and GSM/GPRS/EDGE in a handset. |
| 19:49.40 | dennisharrison | SpeedEvil, thats been done before as demo tech a few times, but I like to see more of it :) |
| 19:50.47 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 19:51.12 | dennisharrison | their method is heavy, and not something the antiquated american cellular companies will be able to implement in any decent fashion... but very intelligent design on their part none the less! :) |
| 19:51.41 | SpeedEvil | Was googling to see if my potential provider had EDGE |
| 19:51.47 | SpeedEvil | (though the neo doens't) |
| 19:51.56 | Elrond | Can someone please clue me on using the -dbg packages? |
| 19:52.29 | zecke | Elrond: ipkg install -dbg? |
| 19:52.41 | dennisharrison | SpeedEvil, it supports evdo though correct? |
| 19:52.57 | zecke | Elrond: we use objdump to place debug (dwarf2 IIRC) symbols into a different binary |
| 19:53.07 | Elrond | zecke - I tried "gdb /usr/bin/.debug/thingy" which didn't like me. But seems "just working", when I use the normal binary. :-) |
| 19:53.47 | zecke | Elrond: right objdump removes the debug symbols from the original binary, places them into a new one and remembers the location of the debug symbols in the original binary |
| 19:54.04 | zecke | Elrond: e.g. I think this is used by Ubuntu's crash reporting system as well |
| 19:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-13078.bb.online.no) |
| 19:54.26 | zecke | Elrond: you can ship stripped binaries but then get a proper stacktrace |
| 19:54.31 | dennisharrison | zecke, yes it is |
| 19:54.56 | Elrond | Cool. :-) |
| 19:55.22 | Elrond | Now it looks like I need to get nfs working to mount my desktops sources. ;o) |
| 19:56.29 | Sup3rkiddo | night all |
| 19:57.19 | zecke | Elrond: do you know gdb-server? |
| 19:59.44 | Elrond | zecke - In theory I do. In practice I haven't used it. ;o) |
| 20:00.19 | Elrond | And things start to feel strange. |
| 20:00.28 | zecke | Elrond: before you are going to use nfs, try gdb-server |
| 20:02.36 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
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| 20:04.57 | Elrond | zecke - I used scp for the single file, that is currently of interest. ;o) |
| 20:05.32 | zecke | Elrond: my approach to debugging is: Rule 0.) Write perfect code |
| 20:06.00 | koen | isn't rule 0 "don't talk about debugging"? |
| 20:06.31 | zecke | koen: you like to get choked by a sith lord, don't you? |
| 20:06.38 | koen | yes |
| 20:06.54 | koen | your jedi tricks don't work on me |
| 20:08.54 | Elrond | What's a "sith lord"? |
| 20:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p549541BA.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:09.16 | zecke | nothing that exists |
| 20:09.31 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:09.37 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:09.47 | Elrond | Who wrote this duplicate? ;o) |
| 20:09.53 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.36.239) |
| 20:10.01 | ynezz | just to be sure... |
| 20:11.08 | Elrond | ynezz - There should be some moko_mainmenu_app_new() anyway. |
| 20:11.24 | Elrond | Or well. anyway. Not the bug I'm hunting... |
| 20:14.26 | Elrond | zecke - "perfect code"... well. I'm not going to comment on "perfect code" and "some of the current openmoko developers" ;o) |
| 20:14.26 | Elrond | *installing more -dbg* |
| 20:14.52 | zecke | Elrond: ulimit -c unlimited to make it core dump? |
| 20:15.06 | Hopscotch | ohoh |
| 20:15.12 | zecke | Elrond: and use addr2line on the host? |
| 20:15.34 | zecke | Elrond: or my favorite tool called catchsegv (best glibc tool ever) |
| 20:15.39 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@84.165.68.105) |
| 20:16.06 | Elrond | zecke - Hmm... coredump sounds like another nice idea. |
| 20:16.30 | Elrond | zecke - But the backtrace looks bad anyway. I guess, something smashes the stack... So I need to step through it anyway. |
| 20:17.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Main_Page]] |
| 20:18.03 | zecke | Elrond: at that point I would valgrind on another architecture (x86) and check if I can replicate it (it is just a shortcut) |
| 20:19.44 | Elrond | zecke - Well, I don't have that "broken" combination of components on the hosts... The thing works for most others, just not for me. I'm suspecting some missing tests or so. And so I have to debug on the thing. ;-) |
| 20:19.45 | zecke | Elrond: yeah, still it might be corrupt for everyone but only crashing for you |
| 20:19.49 | zecke | but good luck |
| 20:20.43 | Elrond | Thanks. :-) |
| 20:20.54 | Elrond | Yeah, running valgrind on the host might generally be a good idea. |
| 20:21.02 | Elrond | I fear getting flooded. ;o) |
| 20:21.16 | *** join/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCC86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:21.46 | tri | re |
| 20:21.49 | zecke | Elrond: Don't use -v and let it generate a suppresion file |
| 20:23.45 | Elrond | :-) |
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| 20:28.21 | GaKKGaKk | Oh no! The iPhone had third party applications. Written in AJAX, how, oh how, will the OpenMoko survive :D |
| 20:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 20:30.37 | ynezz | that's crazy |
| 20:32.38 | *** join/#openmoko baze (n=baze@p5481C021.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:41.05 | nox-Hand | Eeek! =D |
| 20:42.48 | xkr47 | lol.. 3rd party applications in AJAX.. that's like "you can surf the web"! wow! they've really done it! |
| 20:43.24 | LuitvD | "best things in life are free" s/things/phones/ |
| 20:46.13 | *** join/#openmoko _alcik_ (n=kahuna@chello089078035076.chello.pl) |
| 20:46.25 | pjz | tanstaafl |
| 20:46.44 | LuitvD | pjz: what? :| |
| 20:46.58 | pjz | There Ain't No Such Thing As A Free Lunch |
| 20:47.05 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 20:47.14 | LuitvD | free as in beer ;) |
| 20:47.17 | xkr47 | we're not talking about food on this channel |
| 20:47.21 | xkr47 | at least not very often :) |
| 20:47.27 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 20:47.37 | LuitvD | well, actually quite regularly |
| 20:47.48 | LuitvD | actually, quite often |
| 20:47.57 | LuitvD | yeah, always :) |
| 20:48.02 | xkr47 | "openmoko is free as in free speech - iphone is free as in a free lunch" ;-) |
| 20:48.24 | nox-Hand | A question that I am not sure whether anyone actually knows the answer to...: If one craps up this software on the phone, is there some sort of a "reload" tool? ;) |
| 20:48.41 | nox-Hand | And is this "geek but not coder" friendly? :D |
| 20:49.01 | mjr | if you screw up the bootloader, you will need the debug board or something similar |
| 20:49.05 | SpeedEvil | not at the moment |
| 20:49.08 | mjr | if you don't, you can fix the rest |
| 20:49.15 | SpeedEvil | however, you don't need to play with the bootloader |
| 20:49.29 | xkr47 | yeah, so if you can manage to avoid that, you're safe! |
| 20:49.37 | xkr47 | (i.e. you can "reload" stuff) |
| 20:49.48 | nox-Hand | xkr47: Excellent =) |
| 20:49.58 | nox-Hand | Which Linux is it built on? Completely custom? |
| 20:50.10 | mjr | I think it's mostly Linus's Linux... |
| 20:50.19 | Vegar | 2.6.21.3, isn't it? |
| 20:50.23 | nox-Hand | mjr: Yeah, but perhaps a distro or something also |
| 20:50.31 | nox-Hand | Like, a skimmed down Debian |
| 20:50.36 | nox-Hand | Which I would NOT expect |
| 20:50.40 | Vegar | openembedded |
| 20:50.56 | nox-Hand | Excellent |
| 20:52.33 | xkr47 | nox-Hand needs the "free as in beer" openmoko version ;) |
| 20:52.50 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@pd956a57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:52.50 | mjr | that's the "sell your soul to Cingular for all eternity" version with a locked-down GSM chip firmware ;) |
| 20:52.59 | xkr47 | locked and glued :) |
| 20:53.15 | nox-Hand | xkr47: Yeah, I hate being broke :( I already awe 1500 USD away :o |
| 20:53.19 | high-rez | Your soul selling pays my bills, thanks. |
| 20:53.27 | nox-Hand | Damn me going to australia on holiday for six weeks this summer ;) |
| 20:53.43 | xkr47 | nox-Hand, you working? |
| 20:53.53 | xkr47 | high-rez, ;) |
| 20:53.54 | mjr | high-rez, are you with the devil or Cingular, or are they the same thing? |
| 20:54.00 | xkr47 | nox-Hand, heh :) |
| 20:54.06 | high-rez | mjr: I'm officiall the New AT&T! |
| 20:54.07 | high-rez | ;) |
| 20:54.46 | nox-Hand | xkr47: I am indeed |
| 20:55.00 | nox-Hand | Taking time to earn cash though :| |
| 20:55.15 | pjz | wait til you have kids |
| 20:55.21 | xkr47 | well I wish you luck with that :) |
| 20:55.36 | *** part/#openmoko tri (n=tri@p57ADCC86.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:55.36 | xkr47 | pjz, and wait til they all want an openmoko ;) |
| 20:55.37 | nox-Hand | xkr47: Think anyone might be happy to work on the "donate an OpenMoko to the guy who is 100% fluent in Danish and English so he can translate it for ya" |
| 20:55.41 | nox-Hand | ;) |
| 20:56.10 | high-rez | Bah, even by the time your kids are old enough to want a cool phone, they openmoko won't be released. |
| 20:56.10 | high-rez | ;) |
| 20:56.11 | pjz | not when all ya need to do the translations is qemu |
| 20:56.34 | nox-Hand | pjz: For testing :D |
| 20:56.43 | nox-Hand | pjz: Find me an excuse for me to get one cheaper ;) |
| 20:56.45 | nox-Hand | XD |
| 20:56.46 | xkr47 | nox-Hand, well you could contact openmoko team to see if they are working with any danish operators, maybe they could be interested in case there are some? |
| 20:57.00 | xkr47 | high-rez, heh you optimist! |
| 20:58.04 | nox-Hand | xkr47: Clarify please =) |
| 20:58.57 | xkr47 | I have heard openmoko works with operators to promote openmoko phones |
| 20:59.17 | xkr47 | so maybe they have been in contact with some danish ones that could appreciate a danish translation being available |
| 20:59.29 | xkr47 | or maybe you can help them with that :) |
| 21:00.44 | Vegar | do I need to set up a build environment to test translations? |
| 21:00.45 | nox-Hand | xkr47: I'd be interested, though although the Open Soure Movement often tells how age is unimportant, and as long as you are a responsible person, I severely doubt they would want me, a 16 year old person, no matter how high grades I get in *.linguistics and how nerdy I am (though I can't code yet :() |
| 21:01.21 | *** join/#openmoko alurdun_ (n=jordan@64.180.94.253) |
| 21:01.55 | xkr47 | well.. I was just shooting ducks here, and my aim is not always so good :) |
| 21:02.11 | xkr47 | (== just wanted to help) |
| 21:02.20 | nox-Hand | xkr47: I will sniff about for a way to contact the OpenMoko team :) |
| 21:02.35 | nox-Hand | Thanks a lot, and don't worry, I will be in this channel non stop for weeks now :) |
| 21:03.11 | xkr47 | don't let it ruin your job performance tho :) |
| 21:03.36 | xkr47 | I don't know if my idea was realistic, I lack skill for that kind of analysis |
| 21:03.40 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 21:03.48 | nox-Hand | xkr47: I run screen + irssi on a dedicated web server so I have chat all the time :) |
| 21:04.12 | LuitvD | screen? |
| 21:04.17 | nox-Hand | Though I shall definately try contacting - perhaps I can help in ANY way | even if it don't get me anything, I will have helped get the phone I want |
| 21:04.22 | nox-Hand | LuitvD: You run Linux? |
| 21:04.35 | nox-Hand | LuitvD: It is a terminal-based window manager |
| 21:04.44 | LuitvD | oeh, nice |
| 21:04.49 | nox-Hand | If you run a program from your terminal, you can also start it in screen |
| 21:05.04 | LuitvD | oeh, I have it already :P |
| 21:05.20 | nox-Hand | so, run screen in a terminal, you then run whatever program (say, irssi irc chat) and then press ctrl+a+d to detach the screen. |
| 21:05.32 | nox-Hand | screen -r then reattaches the screen in _any_ terminal |
| 21:05.34 | LuitvD | so just screen irssi |
| 21:05.36 | LuitvD | ? |
| 21:05.38 | Vegar | yes |
| 21:06.00 | xkr47 | that starts it up yeah |
| 21:06.25 | xkr47 | to be specific, that's Ctrl-a d |
| 21:06.25 | LuitvD | and what keeps it running? just not closing it? |
| 21:06.39 | xkr47 | you "detach" from the screen |
| 21:06.42 | LuitvD | what's ctrl-a? |
| 21:06.45 | xkr47 | then it stays running in the background |
| 21:07.00 | Vegar | it's a key combination |
| 21:09.24 | LuitvD | hmm, how do I find it agaiin? XD |
| 21:09.32 | LuitvD | it's a process already... |
| 21:09.36 | nox-Hand | LuitvD: screen -r |
| 21:09.38 | LuitvD | ah |
| 21:09.38 | nox-Hand | that opens it up |
| 21:09.39 | nox-Hand | again |
| 21:09.48 | xkr47 | and then just ctrl-a d to get out again |
| 21:09.52 | nox-Hand | You can also manually detach it from another terminal using screen -d |
| 21:10.23 | xkr47 | it's just nuts, I use ctrl-a to go to the beginning of the line all the time |
| 21:10.27 | nox-Hand | xkr47: indeed =P |
| 21:10.31 | xkr47 | so, I've reconfigured it to use ctrl-z |
| 21:10.35 | Vegar | you can do ctrl+a a do send ctrl+a |
| 21:11.03 | xkr47 | I know, but I still kept detaching screens all the time by accident |
| 21:11.04 | xkr47 | or worse, killing windows etc |
| 21:12.57 | nox-Hand | xkr47: Thanks for your help, I will see if I can't ind a way to get ahold of the team tomorrow - it's late, time for bed :) |
| 21:13.32 | nox-Hand | Night! =) |
| 21:13.46 | xkr47 | nn |
| 21:15.51 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:17.06 | Vegar | do I have to build my own rootfs images to test my translations? |
| 21:17.11 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 21:19.53 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3E7AE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:21.58 | LuitvD | blast, I think I'll just try screen and irssi again once I got either a linux smartphone, or a home server |
| 21:23.14 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 21:23.41 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54892584.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:24.39 | xkr47 | LuitvD, yeah |
| 21:24.59 | *** part/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54A35E2C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:30.44 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 21:31.47 | pavelm | Hello, everyone. |
| 21:32.04 | pavelm | I interrupted flashing of root fs on phase1 openmoko... and now kernel complains it does not find /. |
| 21:32.15 | pavelm | I tried reflashing both kernel and rootfs since that :-( |
| 21:33.51 | pavelm | is partition setup same on phase0 and phase1? |
| 21:37.57 | guaqua | oopsie |
| 21:38.15 | guaqua | can't browse the openembedded org.openembedded.dev branch on the website |
| 21:43.35 | LuitvD | (the joke, not the page) |
| 21:43.49 | LuitvD | http://burningsmell.org/man_overboard.png |
| 21:43.52 | xkr47 | I did.. I just thought rescuing a woman overboard would be even more fun ;) |
| 21:44.01 | LuitvD | heh |
| 21:44.04 | xkr47 | ah ok :) |
| 21:44.13 | LuitvD | so I was the one who didn't get ti :P |
| 21:44.17 | LuitvD | s/ti/it/ |
| 21:44.23 | don-o | LuitvD: funny. |
| 21:46.52 | pavelm | did anyone successfully flash phase1 openmoko? |
| 21:55.36 | *** join/#openmoko rox (n=rox@84-255-206-50.static.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 22:01.04 | Elrond | pavelm - flash what? |
| 22:01.04 | Elrond | pavelm - BTW: basic python stuff is on buildhost; I did not get to build pygtk for you. |
| 22:01.06 | pavelm | elrond: I noticed laforge (or someone) build python for Marcel last night. Bad no pygtk, yet :-) |
| 22:01.23 | pavelm | elrond: I flashed Bv4 neo, and now it will not find init :-( |
| 22:02.51 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177650164.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:03.35 | balrog-kun | i'm sure most Bv4 owners reflashed the rootfs until now |
| 22:03.54 | Elrond | I guess the same. |
| 22:04.03 | Elrond | ... okay... I never reflashed my Bv3 ;-) |
| 22:04.11 | Elrond | I always upgrade individual packages. |
| 22:05.27 | pavelm | balrog: Is the procedure same as in phase0? |
| 22:05.40 | pavelm | (phase0 == Bv3) |
| 22:05.41 | Elrond | It really should be. |
| 22:06.00 | balrog-kun | pavelm: i didn't have a Bv3, but it is as described in dfu-util -h |
| 22:06.04 | pavelm | I guess I should not have stopped that dfu while flashing... but I think I've done that before. |
| 22:06.51 | balrog-kun | alternatively you can use the SD or reflash from under linux |
| 22:06.55 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:07.20 | pavelm | balrog: I have two sd cards (one 128MB that came with neo) and neither works reliably :-( |
| 22:07.44 | balrog-kun | oh, i got no SD with my neo :( |
| 22:08.10 | Elrond | balrog-kun, pavelm I didn't get one either. ;-) |
| 22:08.49 | Elrond | .... but then, I'm not an official P0/P0.99 guy. ;-) |
| 22:08.49 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 22:08.50 | balrog-kun | although what i'm missing the most is the carrying poach that i've seen in koen's pictures |
| 22:10.01 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Yep. I always carry the whole box around, when I want to show around the thing. |
| 22:10.11 | pavelm | umm..well... carrying poach is useful for protecting neo, but that's about it. |
| 22:10.23 | pavelm | you can't strap it to your belt. |
| 22:10.36 | pavelm | it hurts to have it around your neck. |
| 22:10.39 | balrog-kun | it's not about being useful, but it looks cool :) |
| 22:10.52 | Elrond | Well, "my" neo just traveled about 1600km the last week. The box just took a lot of space. ;-) |
| 22:10.54 | pavelm | balrog: Yes, it does :-) |
| 22:11.38 | Elrond | But it was okay, I put all my other electronic toys in the box to the neo. ;) |
| 22:12.08 | Elrond | pavelm - Factory reset is only "boot default" ;) |
| 22:12.21 | Elrond | pavelm - Or something alike... let me reboot the neo and see. |
| 22:12.25 | pavelm | elrond: too bad. |
| 22:13.48 | Elrond | pavelm - *gna* "Factory reset" is hardcoded somewhere in u-boot. I don't want to look now. |
| 22:18.05 | *** join/#openmoko rox (n=rox@84-255-206-50.static.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 22:18.05 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ/nl]] [[Main_Page/nl]] [[Talk:Neo1973_Battery]] [[Wishlist:Determine_Position]] [[User:Coni]] [[Talk:Wishlist:Ignore_Call_Button]] |
| 22:18.13 | rox | nikol vec ati |
| 22:20.21 | pavelm | elrond: Thanks... apparently, it does not help. |
| 22:20.55 | *** join/#openmoko jessta (n=jessta@203-214-125-163.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 22:21.45 | balrog-kun | pavelm: did you download directly to the rootfs partition? |
| 22:22.04 | balrog-kun | if you downloaded to RAM first, and the used "nand write" to flash then there's a possible bug |
| 22:22.22 | balrog-kun | i've hit this bug in qemu recently |
| 22:25.21 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 22:27.36 | Elrond | Not to mention one should use write.e, I think. |
| 22:28.53 | pavelm | balrog: I just used ./dfu-util -a 5 -R -D |
| 22:29.06 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 22:29.30 | balrog-kun | okay, that's direct to flash |
| 22:30.42 | balrog-kun | Elrond: yeah, or write.jffs2, but the bug (or rather, the catch) is that the image is over 32MB since last week (it just grew), and hits the area where u-boot has its stack in memory, |
| 22:31.06 | balrog-kun | so part of the image may get overwritten and then you get mysterious missing files in the rootfs image |
| 22:31.31 | balrog-kun | and it becomes really hard to track |
| 22:32.00 | balrog-kun | took me half day to debug :) |
| 22:32.11 | pavelm | balrog: Well... that's not okay, because now it means I do not know what to do to recover it :-( |
| 22:32.29 | *** join/#openmoko bmidgley2 (n=brad@70.89.246.46) |
| 22:33.29 | balrog-kun | pavelm: i mean it's not the same issue that i've hit :p |
| 22:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@cpc2-bagu2-0-0-cust912.bagu.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:39.09 | pavelm | balrog: dfu should erase whole flash partitions, right? |
| 22:40.14 | balrog-kun | pavelm: afaik nope, only the part being overritten (rounded to nearest erase block) |
| 22:41.37 | balrog-kun | you can play with "nand dump" to see if all of it got written properly or just retry the operation |
| 22:41.45 | pavelm | balrog: Hmm, that should be enough. System mounts jffs2 successfully, that means I do have right drivers... strane. |
| 22:41.56 | pavelm | balrog: I did >3 retries. |
| 22:42.01 | balrog-kun | hmm |
| 22:42.32 | balrog-kun | btw. latest u-boot's dfu support has a patch that speeds up the download, worth upgrading |
| 22:42.57 | pavelm | balrog: Well... I'd prefer not to break it any more than it is just now. |
| 22:43.02 | pavelm | but thanks :-) |
| 22:46.56 | *** part/#openmoko GaKKGaKk (n=Viko@ti121210a080-13078.bb.online.no) |
| 23:00.43 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-53-185.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 23:06.29 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Well, I only update u-boot to versions, that others have tested. And my u-boot currently works nicely enough for me. |
| 23:13.15 | *** join/#openmoko rox (n=rox@84-255-206-50.static.dsl.t-2.net) |
| 23:19.26 | Elrond | Good night people. :) |
| 23:23.26 | pavelm | good night! |
| 23:24.25 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-69-232-204-206.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 23:24.29 | balrog-kun | i guess i'm one of the others then :) |
| 23:24.33 | balrog-kun | Elrond: goof night |
| 23:24.36 | balrog-kun | *good |
| 23:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 23:44.34 | webjames | night all |
| 23:56.54 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-n800 (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
