| 04:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 04:08.38 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting perhaps any week now <> Mass market perhaps in 6 months or more. |
| 04:08.49 | scuffe | all i want is a working dev enviroment is that so much to ask..... |
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| 04:26.28 | scuffe | yeah it's finally comming slowly but surely (hopefully) |
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| 05:03.36 | aloril | what about 2 options: a) "what is now at OpenMoko SVN" (like it works now) b) "last known good compile" -version |
| 05:03.40 | aloril | ? |
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| 05:23.51 | aloril | too early for my suggestion? I guess when its released there will be "known good snapshot" versions |
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| 06:15.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Dialer]] |
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| 07:25.20 | deepank__ | sorry got disconnected |
| 07:25.28 | deepank__ | how can I compile and build a program into an openmoko image |
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| 08:15.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation_HOWTO]] [[Talk:Search_Widget]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] |
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| 09:08.38 | buz | totally offtopic but since nothing's going on: are HP business notebooks any good? |
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| 09:15.37 | Tronic | buz: I think so. |
| 09:15.55 | buz | so not playmobil like their pavilions? |
| 09:16.04 | Tronic | They have strong design, very long battery life and the batteries don't seem to die quickly. |
| 09:16.14 | buz | comparable to thinkpads then? |
| 09:16.21 | Tronic | Their warranty repairs take a few days, which is not bad at all. |
| 09:16.40 | Tronic | I haven't been too impressed with Lenovo's Thinkpads. |
| 09:17.16 | Tronic | They have shorter battery life and worse features than HP. On the other hand, the switch is easy, as HP has been imitating Thinkpads for the last few years. |
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| 09:17.31 | buz | i just bought a t60, which is very impressively built but the ati vga card is unbearable under linux |
| 09:17.56 | Tronic | I wouldn't buy a Pavilion. They look and feel plastic. |
| 09:18.03 | buz | i sure as hell wont |
| 09:18.16 | buz | and lenovo switzerland can't tell me whether the US thinkpads with intel shared memory are under warranty in switzerland |
| 09:18.33 | buz | warranty upgrade for hp is expensive though |
| 09:18.46 | Tronic | Oh, HP also has good keyboard layout. Left Ctrl is below Shift. |
| 09:19.00 | buz | mhh same with my toshiba |
| 09:19.05 | buz | the lenovo had fn there |
| 09:19.09 | buz | but one adjusts very quickly |
| 09:19.14 | Tronic | The Home/End/PgUp/PgDn etc. are also fairly well positioned. |
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| 09:19.26 | buz | i must figure out where i could see one for real |
| 09:19.33 | Tronic | The problem with Fn there is that you can't press Ctrl+Shift with one finger. |
| 09:19.34 | buz | pricing itself is very competitive |
| 09:19.51 | buz | i never do that ;) |
| 09:19.59 | buz | my fingers are too small for that to work reliably |
| 09:20.07 | Tronic | And I use those combinations all the time (copy&paste in terminals, unit selections in TA Spring, etc). |
| 09:20.51 | buz | not sure if you could remap them |
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| 09:20.57 | buz | you sure as hell can remap the acpi actions |
| 09:21.00 | buz | so i guess you could |
| 09:21.00 | SpeedEvil | You generally can't. |
| 09:21.13 | buz | question is if doesnt confuse the hell out of you |
| 09:21.14 | SpeedEvil | The keys tend to be firmware assisted |
| 09:21.37 | buz | SpeedEvil: lenovo ones are mostly software driven for all i can tell |
| 09:21.48 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 09:21.55 | Tronic | I use ctrl:nocaps too, but nobody else does. |
| 09:21.59 | buz | they dont work unless ibm-acpi is loaded |
| 09:22.15 | buz | and i see events when looking at the acpi logs |
| 09:22.19 | dottedmag | buz: let me check, I have one handy :) |
| 09:22.33 | buz | dottedmag: check what? |
| 09:23.30 | dottedmag | buz: wow. really! Fn key on Thinkpad T22 is software-driven. |
| 09:24.53 | Stephmw | howdy |
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| 09:25.29 | buz | so next on my schedule is finding some store that stocks hp stuff i guess |
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| 09:41.22 | crackfiend | Sorry if this has been rehashed, but can anybody shed some light on what the hold up is? |
| 09:45.13 | crackfiend | I've been holding onto this cash since February, and I'm thinking that if the iPhone really will allow 3rd party apps, I might as well get that in a few weeks instead of waiting around for more missed release dates |
| 09:46.52 | buz | well, wait a few weeks and see if its released then |
| 09:47.08 | buz | personally i think the iphone is too big |
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| 09:47.59 | crackfiend | Hmmm... I think the Openmoko is a little portly too, but I suppose that's the price of smartphones |
| 09:48.26 | Any_Key | is anybody suffers from problems with icon in OpenMoko Today in qemu? (I'm using mokomakefile updated) |
| 09:48.41 | Any_Key | s/icon/icons |
| 09:48.47 | Shoragan | Any_Key i'm building a new image right now |
| 09:49.52 | ynezz | apple will probably go the symbian way, signed/approved 3rd apps... |
| 09:49.54 | Any_Key | Shoragan, good, tell me when you'll try it |
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| 09:54.47 | crackfiend | To the guys who have a 1973, how responsive is the UI? I have a Motorola A780, and the UI is amazingly slow |
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| 10:06.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r2200 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (configure usb-linux-gadget.c): |
| 10:06.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Check linux-headers version and include only headers appropriate for given version. |
| 10:06.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Fixes http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=592 |
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| 10:09.27 | buz | crackfiend: very slow from what we hear |
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| 10:09.41 | buz | but its not yet optimized and phase 2 device gets faster hardware |
| 10:10.19 | balrog-kun | it's not so bad in recent versions, when the folks started to take speed into account (or so it seems) |
| 10:10.40 | buz | oh so it already gets optimized |
| 10:10.42 | buz | gooood |
| 10:11.00 | balrog-kun | loading of some programs takes a couple of seconds but at least you see immediate rections to the taps |
| 10:11.21 | buz | can linux do execute in place? |
| 10:12.02 | balrog-kun | during boot? |
| 10:12.23 | balrog-kun | there's the XIP option in the config for this |
| 10:12.36 | buz | afterwards |
| 10:12.47 | buz | as long as boot doesnt take forever i dont care that much for boot time |
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| 10:13.41 | balrog-kun | execute in place of normal programs? how would that work? |
| 10:13.55 | buz | dunno, palm supposedly does it though |
| 10:14.02 | balrog-kun | i mean it does support it but only if the programs are already in ram |
| 10:14.10 | balrog-kun | i.e. and ext2 filesystem in ramdisk |
| 10:14.18 | balrog-kun | only some filesystems have support for that |
| 10:14.33 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Dialer]] [[GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] [[Translation_HOWTO/ru]] |
| 10:14.52 | balrog-kun | on PalmOS if you execute from an SD card or HD it will also first copy to RAM storage |
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| 10:25.40 | Shoragan | crackfiend, are you using the openmoko ui on the a780? |
| 10:27.38 | crackfiend | Shoragan: nope. I was just trying to see how quick the UI is on the 1973... I didn't realize that openmoko was available for the A780 |
| 10:28.16 | Shoragan | ah, then which UI is slow on the A780? |
| 10:28.46 | crackfiend | The UI it comes with :D |
| 10:29.18 | Shoragan | heh |
| 10:30.04 | Shoragan | there is the openezx project, which is working on making the A780 (and other phones) work with openembedded |
| 10:31.16 | crackfiend | The hardware of the A780 is actually pretty nice. I love that it has real keys on the outside and a touchscreen under the flip. I just wish Motorola would've given it a little more love on the software side |
| 10:31.54 | crackfiend | When openmoko is a little further along i wouldn't mind trying it out |
| 10:32.51 | ynezz | motorola allows you to write 3rd party apps in j2me only? Or is it possible in C also?' |
| 10:33.11 | ynezz | i don't take openezx into account |
| 10:33.37 | crackfiend | Motorola only allows j2me officially I believe |
| 10:34.23 | crackfiend | And some of the fun api's (like JSR 179) are not available |
| 10:35.23 | ynezz | whats jsr179? |
| 10:35.28 | crackfiend | Although it seems like some people have gotten it to work |
| 10:35.33 | crackfiend | Location API (GPS) |
| 10:35.37 | ynezz | ah |
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| 10:42.12 | Stephmw | ynezz, Nokia S40 is pretty much the same, J2ME is the 3rd-party extensability of choice |
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| 11:16.21 | Shoragan | Any_Key, i'm currently unable to boot the image in qemu :/ |
| 11:16.47 | Any_Key | Shoragan, funny... |
| 11:17.29 | Any_Key | Shoragan, I'll build tomorrow I think |
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| 11:30.56 | nobody96 | moin |
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| 11:33.23 | PBeck | hi |
| 11:35.47 | mickey|teipei | heya |
| 11:37.57 | Shoragan | greetings to teipei! |
| 11:40.20 | Shoragan | SpeedEvil, how do you easily revert spam in the wiki/ |
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| 11:47.16 | Stephmw | Shoragan: there's a history tab iirc |
| 11:47.21 | nobody96 | does anyone know how to get arround this error: |
| 11:47.22 | nobody96 | /opt/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/pulseaudio-0.9.6-r1/temp/run.do_install.26809: line 701: do_install: command not found |
| 11:47.23 | nobody96 | ? |
| 11:47.40 | nobody96 | happen during a make openmoko-devel-image |
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| 12:00.11 | aloril | mickey|teipei: seen piles of Neo1973s yet? ;-) |
| 12:00.58 | mickey|teipei | no. they're in china |
| 12:01.27 | mickey|teipei | besides, I'm in the hotel feeling like a zombie ;) |
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| 12:10.53 | quinton | hey guys, there are a couple of things i could do with clarification on |
| 12:13.12 | quinton | it looks like SIM related functions are to be handled by the gsmd, does this mean that the sim card is on the gsm side of the UART line? |
| 12:13.12 | quinton | would it be impossible for openmoko to communicate with it except through at commands? |
| 12:14.05 | quinton | sorry if this is dumb question, i don't know a great deal about this stuff, it's just something i'm curious about |
| 12:14.15 | pH5 | quinton that's correct |
| 12:14.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction/it]] [[User_talk:HlqY9p]] [[Media_Player]] |
| 12:14.42 | quinton | thanks |
| 12:15.59 | *** join/#openmoko Clint (n=Clint@thumb.scru.org) |
| 12:16.48 | quinton | also, would it be possible (or easy?) to have the phone pretend to be, say, a mass storage device or a hid through usb? |
| 12:16.52 | quinton | i saw something which seemed to suggest that, but i wasn't sure if i understood it correctly |
| 12:19.19 | pH5 | quinton: should be easy (if the drivers work) - for storage there is the g_file_storage driver in linux. |
| 12:19.44 | pH5 | I don't know if there is a generic hid gadget driver somewhere. |
| 12:20.36 | quinton | excellent, thanks pH5 |
| 12:21.22 | quinton | btw, does anyone know what kind of backlight it has? |
| 12:22.24 | pH5 | led, same as everyone |
| 12:23.19 | quinton | this is an awesome project |
| 12:23.27 | pH5 | yes :) |
| 12:23.36 | quinton | i can't wait to get one of these things |
| 12:24.14 | quinton | i have great appreciation for everyone working on this |
| 12:25.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 599 has been created by ruediger@blueboot.org |
| 12:25.02 | cdbot2 | * * pulseaudio compilation fails |
| 12:25.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=599 |
| 12:25.09 | nobody96 | cool :) |
| 12:25.19 | nobody96 | nice bot |
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| 12:40.50 | mickey|teipei | hmm |
| 12:40.54 | mickey|teipei | pulseaudio compiles for me |
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| 12:50.05 | nobody96 | i compiled here several times to |
| 12:50.08 | nobody96 | +o |
| 12:50.20 | nobody96 | thought there have been recent changes |
| 12:50.29 | nobody96 | but mtn says otherwise |
| 12:50.41 | nobody96 | stange |
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| 12:54.28 | nobody96 | oh, svn says something changed |
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| 13:16.20 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2201 10/trunk/oe/packages/pulseaudio/pulseaudio_0.9.6.bb: oe: improve pulseaudio packaging |
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| 13:20.09 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2202 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (2 files in 2 dirs): oe/openmoko-sound-system: catch up with corrected module/lib naming in pulseaudio |
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| 13:25.07 | nobody96 | same error |
| 13:25.37 | nobody96 | it tries |
| 13:25.38 | nobody96 | cd /opt/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/pulseaudio-0.9.6-r1/pulseaudio-0.9.6 |
| 13:25.38 | nobody96 | do_install |
| 13:25.42 | nobody96 | and crashes |
| 13:25.57 | nobody96 | with: do_install: command not found |
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| 13:28.02 | mickey|teipei | hmm |
| 13:28.10 | mickey|teipei | you're building for i486 |
| 13:28.13 | mickey|teipei | interesting |
| 13:28.57 | nobody96 | i wondered also |
| 13:29.12 | mickey|teipei | oh, so it's not what you wanted to do? |
| 13:29.16 | nobody96 | but the wiki dosnt say anything about this |
| 13:29.23 | mickey|teipei | then you might have some wrong environment variables |
| 13:29.26 | mickey|teipei | BBPATH |
| 13:29.29 | mickey|teipei | for one |
| 13:29.39 | mickey|teipei | and/or your local.conf |
| 13:29.45 | mickey|teipei | is missing DISTRO and MACHINE |
| 13:30.30 | nobody96 | MACHINE = "x86" |
| 13:30.30 | nobody96 | DISTRO = "openmoko" |
| 13:30.57 | nobody96 | but there is no BBPATH in my local.con |
| 13:30.59 | nobody96 | +f |
| 13:31.30 | mickey|teipei | aha, so you're deliberatly building for x86 |
| 13:31.45 | mickey|teipei | BBPATH is an environment variable |
| 13:31.52 | mickey|teipei | see wiki for how to set this |
| 13:32.11 | nobody96 | found it in the setup-env script |
| 13:32.35 | nobody96 | its correct |
| 13:33.10 | mickey|teipei | try attaching your log.do_install._<number> and run.do_install.<number> to the bugreport |
| 13:33.23 | mickey|teipei | that usually sits in $WORKDIR/temp/ |
| 13:33.35 | nobody96 | ok |
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| 13:37.21 | nobody96 | ok, added |
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| 14:14.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:EahV7x]] [[Guitar_Tuning]] |
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| 14:32.52 | nobody96 | mickey|teipei, with MACHINE = "fic-gta01" it works |
| 14:35.45 | kiney_ | counter |
| 14:35.46 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 22:42:07 (4.946±4.9 days) (1423;227) |
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| 15:08.55 | Sup3rkiddo | anyone getting errors with pulseaudio-server not being satisfied? |
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| 15:14.22 | mickey|teipei | might need svn update; bitbake -c rebuild pulseaudio |
| 15:15.27 | Sup3rkiddo | mickey|dinner, did that... |
| 15:17.08 | mickey|teipei | and is pulseaudio-server in ipk/armv4t? |
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| 15:19.55 | Sup3rkiddo | nope... |
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| 15:20.40 | Sup3rkiddo | updating again just in case |
| 15:20.52 | mickey|teipei | strange. i get the package |
| 15:21.56 | Sup3rkiddo | will pastebin the errors if it comes |
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| 15:23.00 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|teipei: Current update breaks for me, too. No time for an analyze, have to go for dinner with my family. |
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| 15:23.43 | mickey|teipei | ok |
| 15:23.45 | mickey|teipei | bon appetit |
| 15:23.54 | mickey|teipei | i'm building from scratch currently to check |
| 15:24.03 | mickey|teipei | but will probably need to go to bed before it completes |
| 15:24.07 | mickey|teipei | will see tomorrow then |
| 15:26.00 | Sup3rkiddo | bye! :D |
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| 15:55.06 | SpeedEvil | I've now setup something that barks on changes to the wiki. |
| 15:55.16 | SpeedEvil | Polling every minute. |
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| 15:57.14 | mickey | cool |
| 15:57.18 | mickey | ~lart vandalism |
| 15:57.18 | apt | changes vandalism's permissions to 0777 and tells the world |
| 16:01.09 | hrw | Sup3rkiddo: Packaged contents of pulseaudio-server into /home/hrw/devel/openmoko/build/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/pulseaudio-server_0.9.6-r1_armv4t.ipk |
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| 16:02.43 | Sup3rkiddo | hrw, ls pulse* returns nada |
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| 16:09.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2203 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (configure.ac src/buttonactions.c src/buttonactions.h): openmoko-panel-mainmenu: play sounds using pulseaudio |
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| 16:12.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2204 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/buttonactions.c: openmoko-panel-mainmenu: make MOKO_POWERSAVE opt-in again |
| 16:15.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[Talk:Main_Page]] |
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| 16:17.06 | aloril | SpeedEvil: have you watched video linked from http://codicesoftware.blogspot.com/2007/05/linus-torvalds-on-git-and-scm.html ? (or otherwise familiar with ideas behind git) |
| 16:17.34 | aloril | SpeedEvil: I don't think there is *that* much difference between code and English text, so I think similar things apply to wiki too |
| 16:18.36 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 16:19.14 | SpeedEvil | The current deletor would be quite easy to catch though. |
| 16:19.17 | aloril | how he describes distributed development sounds similar to how I envisioned distributed wiki editing (well there are some differences, but more similarities than compared to how wiki is done currently) |
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| 16:28.32 | webjames | ./moko |
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| 16:31.56 | webjames | hi, does the 'Messages' app work for anyone under qemu? |
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| 16:33.41 | balrog-kun | it looks like a dummy menu entry |
| 16:35.30 | webjames | ah right, and what's with the weird noise now looping in qemu? |
| 16:35.54 | webjames | sounds like something is trying to play |
| 16:36.02 | Sup3rkiddo | webjames, yeah the startup sound |
| 16:36.43 | webjames | nice, sounds like analogue tv reception interference - looping! |
| 16:37.07 | Sup3rkiddo | it aint too bad...cant be used to scare away neighbours |
| 16:37.28 | webjames | i mean i don't think mine is playing right |
| 16:37.29 | Sup3rkiddo | *can |
| 16:37.47 | Sup3rkiddo | mine too... |
| 16:38.09 | webjames | oh right.. thats cool, seems to have stopped now |
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| 16:38.27 | webjames | things are really coming on, i like the apps so far |
| 16:39.31 | webjames | only thing when adding then editing a contact the little picture is really small, a tiny square between Name and Organisation |
| 16:39.45 | webjames | well okay, that's not the only thing but it's looking really good! |
| 16:40.17 | SpeedEvil | There needs to be a 'bugzilla' app of some sort. |
| 16:40.28 | SpeedEvil | So your mom can report problems. |
| 16:40.59 | webjames | @ bugzilla idea: yeah, that'd be good |
| 16:41.33 | webjames | i'm guessing not like that, nor looping 6 or so times |
| 16:43.11 | webjames | anonymous usage data could be sent whenever in wifi range, including bugzilla log files etc |
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| 16:44.00 | SpeedEvil | I was more meaning voicemail type things. |
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| 16:44.10 | webjames | thing is bugzilla only pops up when an app crashes, we want some way of allowing the user to create a bug for other minor things |
| 16:44.24 | SpeedEvil | For example - 'I can't work out how to add a contact I don't know the name of" |
| 16:44.28 | SpeedEvil | or something similar |
| 16:44.31 | webjames | SpeedEvil: so the user could describe the bug |
| 16:44.35 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 16:44.45 | SpeedEvil | misfeatures too. |
| 16:44.50 | webjames | nice |
| 16:45.49 | webjames | could be a app, 'bug report' allowing the user to send images, sound and text describing a bug or problem |
| 16:45.56 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A54474.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:46.08 | SpeedEvil | Yeah |
| 16:46.28 | webjames | if only i could program |
| 16:51.39 | webjames | SpeedEvil: your from the UK arn't you? which mobile provider provides the best contract Internet usage? |
| 16:53.37 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 16:53.45 | SpeedEvil | At the moment I have major credit problems. |
| 16:53.51 | SpeedEvil | Plus, I don't actually make many calls. |
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| 16:54.08 | webjames | same here.. to both that is |
| 16:54.11 | SpeedEvil | So, it looks like I'm going to be going with t-mobiles PAYG option - plus 1 pound/day internet. |
| 16:54.21 | webjames | web 'n' walk? |
| 16:54.53 | SpeedEvil | the web+walk thing - plus the 20 quid/month contract is the cheapest I've seen |
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| 16:55.39 | webjames | this seems pretty cheap and includes 'unlimited web surfing' - http://www.t-mobile.co.uk/eshop/personal/price-plans/plan-details.do?cpc=FLX20WNW&tariffFamilyId=22&menuId=tariff.postpaid&paymentTypeId=1&bundleTypeGroup=0 |
| 16:56.01 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - 1G |
| 16:56.04 | SpeedEvil | IIRC quota |
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| 16:58.10 | webjames | the 'terms and conditions' certainly don't sound "Unlimited" |
| 16:58.10 | SpeedEvil | I intend to phone them and see if the 'sim only' - 7.50/mo can have web and walk added. |
| 16:58.21 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - 1G/mo |
| 16:58.41 | SpeedEvil | Advertising standards agency have decided that it's OK to lie about unlimited. |
| 16:58.54 | webjames | that and 'fair usage' - "We do not permit use of this service to provide modem access for a computer or for peer to peer file sharing, internet phone calls or instant messaging. Roaming charges apply." |
| 16:58.58 | CoreDump|home | hi |
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| 16:59.07 | webjames | Hello |
| 16:59.28 | SpeedEvil | Well - I'm not going to be doing that. |
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| 16:59.37 | SpeedEvil | I'm going to be using it for ssh'ng from my phone. |
| 16:59.44 | SpeedEvil | Or other VPN stuff. |
| 16:59.51 | SpeedEvil | Let them eat AES. |
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| 17:00.29 | webjames | haha, yeah then how would they know what it was |
| 17:01.01 | zecke | mickey|dinner: can't global locate link statically with uclibc? |
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| 17:03.59 | PBeck | re |
| 17:05.09 | SpeedEvil | webjames: if you are going to be making very few calls - then PAYG + 1 quid a day may be better value. |
| 17:05.44 | SpeedEvil | webjames: Or the 7.50/mo SIM-only contract + 1 quid/day |
| 17:05.53 | SpeedEvil | webjames: especially if you don't use data every day. |
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| 17:11.35 | SpeedEvil | 'new' breadmaker from ebay. |
| 17:11.58 | SpeedEvil | One appliance readily available. |
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| 17:15.34 | aloril | (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Small does not mean powerless http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/06/09/small-does-not-mean-powerless/ |
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| 17:34.51 | webjames | yeah, that's true, thing is i'm paying 35 a month to o2 and i get nothing, and i don't use anything either |
| 17:34.58 | webjames | SpeedEvil: yeah, that's true, thing is i'm paying 35 a month to o2 and i get nothing, and i don't use anything either |
| 17:36.57 | BrianHV | I'm trying to build the apps as described in the wiki, and it's complaining about not having libgsmd |
| 17:38.07 | zecke | BrianHV: update the wiki, build libgsmd? |
| 17:38.32 | SpeedEvil | oops - mischan - about breadmaker |
| 17:38.37 | BrianHV | from where? |
| 17:38.52 | zecke|studying | BrianHV: go to svn.openmoko.org and browse for the dir? |
| 17:39.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03mickey * r2205 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe/openmoko-sound-system: add basic init script |
| 17:40.05 | BrianHV | src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd? |
| 17:40.59 | zecke|studying | BrianHV: I would checkout the dir that contains a autogen.sh and configure.ac |
| 17:41.25 | zecke|studying | so src/target/gsm would be what I would download |
| 17:41.32 | BrianHV | I have the whole tree already |
| 17:42.00 | Sup3rkiddo | BrianHV, you should have DEPENDS+="libgsmd" in your recipe..works for me |
| 17:42.18 | BrianHV | my recipe? |
| 17:42.32 | zecke|studying | BrianHV: don't forget to update the wiki |
| 17:42.41 | Sup3rkiddo | BrianHV, yup, for your app |
| 17:43.10 | BrianHV | I don't have an app; I'm trying to build the apps in openmoko's svn |
| 17:43.25 | *** join/#openmoko tri__ (n=tri@p57ad8af7.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:43.54 | Sup3rkiddo | BrianHV, oh ok... |
| 17:43.58 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:47.58 | BrianHV | lovely... the example apps are segging |
| 17:49.58 | kiney_ | counter |
| 17:49.59 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 21:05:00 (4.878±4.9 days) (1424;227) |
| 17:54.47 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@48.pool85-50-125.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 17:54.54 | Mandarino | counter |
| 17:54.54 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 21:02:33 (4.877±4.9 days) (1425;227) |
| 18:02.05 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-b70ee02eb53e1bb0) |
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| 18:16.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Applications]] [[Bug_Report]] |
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| 19:13.52 | buz | An interesting rumor is floating in the Internet that soon we?ll see a new Sony Ericsson phone with a unique capability: the user can change the music track by shaking the phone. The source suggests that when you shake it forwards it goes to the next track and when you fling it back it goes to the previous one. For the random playback you have to shake it side to side. |
| 19:13.56 | buz | that's something for GTA02 |
| 19:14.42 | zecke | buz: have seen it in 1999 on the itsy (well I only saw a video) |
| 19:15.19 | CoreDump|home | gta02 is going to rock |
| 19:15.26 | zecke | http://www.hpl.hp.com/techreports/Compaq-DEC/WRL-2000-3.pdf |
| 19:15.45 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 19:21.37 | SpeedEvil | Wow - wikipedia is dated. |
| 19:21.40 | SpeedEvil | (om) |
| 19:21.56 | SpeedEvil | It's not using a novell email client is it? |
| 19:27.06 | buz | not sure i like tilt scrolling so much |
| 19:27.46 | buz | seems like it could have a life of its own |
| 19:28.14 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 19:28.31 | SpeedEvil | However - shake-scroll is more reasonable. |
| 19:28.54 | SpeedEvil | As it's possible to reasonably determine when it's stationaryish |
| 19:29.18 | webjames | CoreDump|home: or rather you shall rock the gta02 and it shall... |
| 19:29.35 | Ycros | ugh, so I really want one of these openmoko phones - but now I'm not sure if I should get one or wait for the next revision |
| 19:29.46 | buz | shake scroll seems like even worse |
| 19:29.57 | SpeedEvil | Well - are you actually wanting a phone. |
| 19:30.01 | webjames | Ycros: i think you should get both |
| 19:30.11 | buz | Forces your eyes to refind the point where you were even more than traditional scorlling |
| 19:30.26 | SpeedEvil | Or are you wanting a nice small touchscreen X box, with some slightly broken phone apps in. |
| 19:30.27 | SpeedEvil | I eas more meaning for the media player |
| 19:30.27 | SpeedEvil | was |
| 19:30.41 | buz | for video it would kinda suck too ;) |
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| 19:30.46 | buz | but for mp3 is would be great |
| 19:30.55 | buz | especially if you could manage to do it WHILE in the pocket |
| 19:31.04 | Ycros | webjames, maybe, but at what cost? |
| 19:31.25 | Ycros | webjames, I heard there would be a deal for early adopters - but I have heard nothing more |
| 19:31.28 | SpeedEvil | 'no, no, I'm not masturbating!' |
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| 19:31.55 | webjames | Ycros: yeah, i'm sure ebay would also give you a return on your redundant hardware |
| 19:31.56 | SpeedEvil | Ycros: not been revealed. |
| 19:32.31 | webjames | Ycros: hink os the Neo as an investment rather than a cost ;) |
| 19:33.01 | webjames | mwester: are you thinking of the wii controlers? |
| 19:33.48 | mwester | Both the "flying device" syndrome, and the generally-bad things that happen when one shakes, strikes, or tosses electronic equipment equipped with heavy internal part (battery) and delicate glass parts (LCD). |
| 19:34.41 | webjames | mwester: haha, yeah, not to mention the law suit: "he then through his mobile at me, striking me in the temple" |
| 19:34.43 | SpeedEvil | Shaking shouldn't really cause issues. |
| 19:34.46 | SpeedEvil | Moderately. |
| 19:35.57 | mwester | Agreed. Provided the battery is adequately restrained, and the battery-circuitry connection is able to handle the stresses. But you know that if one person shakes gently, someone else will grasp the phone and see what happens if you shake it harder... Human nature. |
| 19:36.16 | webjames | shaking implies to me an action that you would do to for example a can of spray paint. shouldn't it be more of a tilting action? |
| 19:36.19 | SpeedEvil | Make it scream. |
| 19:36.33 | SpeedEvil | Tilting has problems - when is it being put away |
| 19:36.41 | Ycros | webjames, SpeedEvil: I just want one already ;_; |
| 19:37.00 | mwester | webjames: tilting happens when I lean over to pick up my car keys -- I don't want response to slow gentle movement, so must be a quiker (i.e. more violent) movement, or not useful. |
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| 19:37.29 | webjames | SpeedEvil: that why it should have a locking function, with a similar unlocking as the Touch |
| 19:37.43 | webjames | finger swiping across the screen |
| 19:37.50 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 19:38.03 | SpeedEvil | I want to be able to do a limited number of actions when unlocked |
| 19:38.09 | SpeedEvil | locked |
| 19:38.10 | mwester | In general, any UI that would regularly (i.e. more than a few times a day) require someone to lock/unlock is a bad gui. |
| 19:38.32 | webjames | SpeedEvil: the tilt would surly be 'locked out' whilst locked anyway |
| 19:38.56 | SpeedEvil | I want it to respond to shakes on the media player when locked |
| 19:39.39 | mwester | Motion sensitivity should be external - a bluetooth "motion device". This solves the problem for everyone nicely. |
| 19:40.20 | webjames | mwester: also you think of any phone you press a series of at least two key to unlock the device, and you do that regularly, swiping ones finger across the screen is easy, also voice unlock could be enabled aswell |
| 19:40.36 | mwester | The only motion sensitivlty any phone should have is to detect if it has been struck or dropped hard enough that it is no longer considered under warranty. |
| 19:40.49 | webjames | the 'magic word' |
| 19:41.12 | mwester | webjames: I prefer phones that do not unlock at all, or the unlock in implicit in the preparation for operation (i.e. the opening of a flip). |
| 19:41.16 | webjames | mwester: of course that could be overridden |
| 19:41.30 | webjames | mwester: yeah, but this aint a flip phone |
| 19:42.11 | mwester | magic words are bad - consider a conference room, and the "magic word" being detected when I speak to a crowd. Now my phone activates in my pocket. Not what I want at all. |
| 19:43.31 | mwester | How about a classroom -- triggered by something during a final exam? There is far too much noise in the world, and tuning that noise out by tightening the "detection filter" results in the inability of the user to unlock when the most need the phone (when under stress when voice changes, or in high noise environment) |
| 19:45.24 | mwester | BTW, yes, I'll accept a swipe or an unlock button if necessary because the device lacks a flip -- I currently use a "swipe" hack on my Treo 650 for exacltly that reason. But I don't like it - it requires an extra hand that I may not have at the time. |
| 19:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:46.06 | webjames | mwester: that just shows lack of imagination of the magic word, what about "baneful" how often do you use that? |
| 19:46.11 | SpeedEvil | Voice unlock is a possibility. |
| 19:46.20 | woglinde | hihi |
| 19:46.49 | mwester | webjames: And what if my presentation includes the word "painful"? |
| 19:47.04 | webjames | p and b differ enough |
| 19:47.10 | SpeedEvil | Voice unlock - shake phone and talk unlock phrase |
| 19:47.18 | mwester | Not really - consonants are the first things lost in high noise. |
| 19:47.23 | webjames | SpeedEvil: don't forget swipe |
| 19:47.37 | SpeedEvil | I don't wanna swipe if I've got muddy hands. |
| 19:48.07 | webjames | what about radiocommunications? |
| 19:48.15 | webjames | tinpot? |
| 19:48.50 | buz | voice activation is stupid |
| 19:49.03 | webjames | ungovernability? |
| 19:49.04 | buz | and i'd guess it takes a lot of cpu |
| 19:49.06 | mwester | Best to choose something longer. How about singing "eeeeiiiiiiieeeeeeiiiiioooooooohhh" very loudly? |
| 19:49.10 | SpeedEvil | Voice activation should be an option. |
| 19:49.25 | seemant | I would name my phone "Kitt" if it was |
| 19:49.26 | webjames | webjames stand behind SpeedEvil |
| 19:49.37 | SpeedEvil | 'Enterprise' |
| 19:49.41 | SpeedEvil | and tap-unlock. |
| 19:49.43 | buz | i vote for sexual noises |
| 19:49.46 | SpeedEvil | Wear it like a combadge. |
| 19:49.47 | webjames | Kitt was awesome |
| 19:49.48 | seemant | haha, yes, or "Computer" |
| 19:50.39 | mwester | bad voice recognition is the fast path to a bad reputation -- people want that so desperately that when it fails, (as it always does), they are more disappointed than if the device did not claim such difficult features in the first place. |
| 19:51.29 | mwester | Read the forums for feedback on any of the late cell phones that have voice-dail features. A few supporters, but most people complain that it doesn't work. |
| 19:51.56 | seemant | mwester: which forums? |
| 19:52.16 | mwester | In any case, a great feature for the experimenters, but I certainly hope it doesn't enter the retail channels (if it ever does) with voice recognition listed as a feature. |
| 19:52.17 | webjames | come on voice activation is purely down to the user, with a word like "Zafferana" how is it oging to unlock? |
| 19:52.43 | mwester | seemant: any of the forums for mobile devices. the recent ones I've been viewing have been about the Treos. |
| 19:52.51 | seemant | mwester: aha, thanks |
| 19:53.24 | Tronic | mwester: WTF? I have been successfully using voice commands (dialing, mostly) for five years or so. |
| 19:53.31 | mwester | webjames: have you tried voice-dial from a cell phone, in places like an automobile, office, and a commuter train? |
| 19:53.39 | Tronic | Works very well, even in noisy environments. |
| 19:53.55 | webjames | *stands behind Tronic |
| 19:54.27 | seemant | webjames: discover /me |
| 19:54.27 | webjames | mwester: only thing is it takes battery.. |
| 19:54.33 | Tronic | The trick is to say the word in the same way as originally. Just saying the same word (or even less someone else saying it) doesn't work too well. |
| 19:54.50 | seemant | actually, my wife has voice recognition in her Prius, and it's basically useless |
| 19:54.52 | SpeedEvil | webjames: not with a trigger action. |
| 19:55.07 | Tronic | webjames: Does it? How much battery can it use in the two seconds that it runs? |
| 19:55.17 | webjames | SpeedEvil: yeah but that mean, lets say if you are driving it's no good |
| 19:55.18 | SpeedEvil | webjames: I need to work out more about my PIC+analog digital accelerometer |
| 19:55.18 | mwester | Tronic: there's one of the big problems. Try to say the word "in the same way as originally" when you are in the corner of a conference room trying to dial a number without disturbing the room. |
| 19:55.27 | seemant | "Quick One" gets the response "Turning radio on" instead of switching to the "quick1" route on the nav |
| 19:55.36 | Tronic | mwester: The volume does not matter, and I have done that. |
| 19:56.15 | mwester | Tronic: then you have the fortune of a phone that has broken the barrier and solved the problem that has never been solved before!! Who has done this incredible thing, may I ask? |
| 19:56.27 | Tronic | Siemens and Nokia. |
| 19:56.30 | webjames | Tronic: cos it has to listen for the word, whereas normally it wouldn't activate such a function un less requested |
| 19:56.33 | mwester | Model number please? |
| 19:56.50 | Tronic | Siemens ME45 and Nokia 6230 (S40). |
| 19:56.55 | mwester | thanks! |
| 19:59.20 | webjames | mwester: maybe your right, i bet it differs from person to person on how much their voice changes due to stress, excitement, fear etc.. |
| 20:01.11 | webjames | how about multilingualism as a word.. |
| 20:02.10 | webjames | SpeedEvil: a tap on the screen followed by the magic word could work |
| 20:02.15 | mwester | :-D How about I just turn it off, as I end up doing on all the phones I've had, and just use the old-fashioned way instead ;-) |
| 20:03.10 | webjames | the tap activating the mic etc then the voice activating the phones voice commands "dial work" -=> "calling work..." |
| 20:04.13 | SpeedEvil | webjames: yeah. |
| 20:04.13 | webjames | mwester: you cant say it would hurt having it on there for the people who want to put up with it, or for those who find it does actually work |
| 20:04.30 | SpeedEvil | Exactly like they do on star-trek, some series :) |
| 20:04.33 | buz | add it as optionally installable app |
| 20:04.37 | woglinde | hihi |
| 20:04.39 | buz | then nobody can complain about it not working |
| 20:04.50 | webjames | buz, yeah. |
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| 20:05.29 | mwester | webjames: goodness no, it should be there for people to work on the problem. But I think it would be a bad idea to advertise it as a core function of the phone when it enters retail channels. |
| 20:05.31 | webjames | SpeedEvil: also for changing tack, a tap then "next" -=> plays next track |
| 20:05.49 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 20:08.04 | webjames | the feature list by launch is going to be massive i bet, and the point is it will evolve with the users comments and bug reports |
| 20:08.05 | webjames | voice activation is not flawed in theory just in practice, so surly it could be done right |
| 20:08.05 | SpeedEvil | VOIP to india. |
| 20:08.13 | SpeedEvil | Person in india presses button, when you say word. |
| 20:08.28 | SpeedEvil | Naah. |
| 20:08.32 | SpeedEvil | Go to speaker mode. |
| 20:08.36 | webjames | SpeedEvil: haha |
| 20:08.37 | woglinde | lol |
| 20:08.40 | mwester | hehe! |
| 20:08.51 | buz | htf would it know that it is a rest room |
| 20:08.56 | SpeedEvil | Databases. |
| 20:09.04 | buz | noises |
| 20:09.09 | SpeedEvil | You could even add it to a 'dating' app. |
| 20:09.20 | webjames | yeah, openstreetmap would have a map of restrooms across the globe |
| 20:09.24 | mwester | GPS accuracy might be a problem if one's office was close to a restroom, though. |
| 20:09.40 | webjames | mwester: what about if ones office is the restroom? |
| 20:10.51 | webjames | how about ambient noise detection? that tinkle is a dead give away |
| 20:11.23 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-treo (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 20:11.28 | mwester | In general, though, the GPS could be useful to solve some of the UI problems. Perhaps the GPS could tell the unit to switch from an MP3-player-friendly UI mode to a business-cell-phone-and-pda mode when one arrives at the train station near work each morning... |
| 20:12.05 | SpeedEvil | with the GPS, and near-ultrasound, you should be able to build up a 2D map |
| 20:12.13 | SpeedEvil | as you walk along a line |
| 20:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko Twey (n=twey@cpc1-brig1-0-0-cust733.brig.cable.ntl.com) |
| 20:15.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:PipBoy2000]] [[Translation]] |
| 20:16.37 | CoreDump|home | probably a geek-only tool. Until OM has matured _a lot_ that is =) |
| 20:17.38 | Vegar | it's supposed to be end-user quality in six months or so |
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| 20:21.56 | buz | the phone is way too big for your average end user |
| 20:22.07 | buz | i've been carrying a p900 for 3,5 years so i wont mind |
| 20:22.09 | buz | but most will |
| 20:23.17 | mwester | Agreed. The size is more suited for a smartphone/PDA replacement than for competing with the RAZR, for example. |
| 20:23.26 | CoreDump|home | exactly |
| 20:23.55 | mwester | On the other hand, the shape and color choice indicates that somebody didn't do any market research on the typical PDA/Smartphone purchaser. |
| 20:24.11 | buz | yeah i wonder about the shape too |
| 20:24.22 | *** join/#openmoko bengl (i=bengl@bas10-ottawa23-1088819533.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:24.28 | buz | (and thats from someone who doesnt care for thinkpads look ;) |
| 20:24.37 | buz | s/for/about/ |
| 20:24.39 | mwester | All black or silver, squarish -- i.e. business-conservative would make more sense considering the $$$$$$ on the price tag. |
| 20:24.54 | buz | no hole for chrissakes |
| 20:25.01 | mwester | Exactly! |
| 20:25.21 | mwester | Makes it look like something you hang around the neck of a little child at the swimming pool with their locker keys in it. |
| 20:25.44 | buz | and considering how much they spend on development, one would think a few 10K for a new case wouldnt be THAT bad really |
| 20:26.13 | mwester | Squaring it up, and getting rid of the hole would probably make placing the components easier, too, I would think. |
| 20:26.37 | *** part/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 20:26.41 | buz | yeah and leave space for a camera |
| 20:26.52 | buz | mwester: actually no |
| 20:26.55 | buz | vaio is muuuuch worse |
| 20:27.00 | mwester | Really? |
| 20:27.09 | buz | color in a laptop? awful |
| 20:27.14 | buz | a laptop should be black |
| 20:27.16 | buz | or metal |
| 20:27.21 | SpeedEvil | Unless it's pink. |
| 20:27.29 | buz | ehehe |
| 20:27.40 | buz | if specs are good enough, i might buy pink notebook |
| 20:27.54 | buz | the shock factor alone would be worth it |
| 20:27.55 | mwester | only if I had money left over for a can of spray paint. |
| 20:28.58 | buz | stay away from my notebook with any sort of paint |
| 20:29.02 | SpeedEvil | And an oven set at the wrong temperature to bake the paint on. |
| 20:29.10 | buz | ROTFL |
| 20:29.15 | Twey | Hahahaha |
| 20:29.18 | SpeedEvil | Metal laptops pretty much have to be painted |
| 20:29.36 | mwester | Metal laptops do not work well with bluetooth and wifi. |
| 20:29.37 | SpeedEvil | Fortunately, it was only the top of the inside next to the keyb |
| 20:29.48 | SpeedEvil | so I replaced it with some cardboard. |
| 20:29.53 | SpeedEvil | Diddn't look quite so good. |
| 20:30.29 | buz | wtf would you paint metal notebook |
| 20:31.08 | SpeedEvil | It was a plastic one. |
| 20:31.21 | SpeedEvil | Almost all metal laptops are painted. |
| 20:31.31 | buz | not sure about macbook pro |
| 20:31.36 | SpeedEvil | The Toshiba 3110CT I have, for example. |
| 20:31.46 | buz | and not too many truly metal notebooks out there |
| 20:31.50 | SpeedEvil | It's got a Mg/Al case. |
| 20:32.12 | buz | panasonic dont seem painted either |
| 20:32.16 | SpeedEvil | Which unfortunately corrodes under the paint. |
| 20:32.33 | SpeedEvil | Where it's exposed to sweat for a long time. |
| 20:32.51 | mwester | palmrest area, for example? |
| 20:32.55 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 20:33.03 | buz | i wonder if you could get thinkpad shells |
| 20:33.05 | buz | to paint pink |
| 20:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 20:33.13 | SpeedEvil | Ebay the guts. |
| 20:33.20 | *** join/#openmoko pipomolo42 (n=alex@ALille-152-1-48-69.w83-198.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 20:33.21 | buz | but i want the guts |
| 20:33.32 | buz | and a spare shell |
| 20:33.46 | buz | maybe i can get a salvage thinkpad somewhere |
| 20:33.48 | mwester | I just bought a new shell for a Dell laptop (Daughter dropped it)... I expect you could get one for a Stinkpad too. |
| 20:33.49 | buz | paint it pink |
| 20:33.53 | SpeedEvil | Proper swappable covers for laptops would be nice. |
| 20:34.24 | buz | mwester: looking at how much trouble it is to remove the palmrest to plug in ram, i'm not quite sure i want to dissassemble the whole thing |
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| 20:34.41 | buz | WTF you put ram below the palmrest i dont understand anyway |
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| 20:35.00 | Ycros | a standard form factor for laptops would be awesome |
| 20:35.22 | mwester | You did that too? yeah, what a way to upgrade the ram, huh! (I did it in a hotel room, with a screwdriver for eyeglasses, because airline security won't let me fly with a proper toolkit). |
| 20:35.41 | hrw|gone | mwester: which dell? |
| 20:35.47 | mwester | C640 |
| 20:35.54 | buz | mwester: on a T60 yes |
| 20:36.06 | buz | on monday, so memory is fresh ;) |
| 20:36.21 | buz | at first i didnt belive the manual |
| 20:36.28 | hrw | one slot on bottom of laptop, seconf under keyboard |
| 20:36.29 | buz | you even have to detach the touchpad cabling |
| 20:36.46 | mwester | Clearly not intended for end-users to expand memory. |
| 20:37.01 | buz | not sure |
| 20:37.12 | buz | has neat howto with pics on lenovo site |
| 20:37.25 | buz | and it even eats generic cheap kingston ram |
| 20:37.28 | mwester | The Dells are better; but IBM has done this for years. The one I upgraded is an old one - Thinkpad T42. |
| 20:37.30 | buz | cant beat 1G at 30EUR |
| 20:38.05 | CoreDump|home | dell....right |
| 20:38.16 | buz | we can |
| 20:38.24 | buz | (not sure what would stop you ;) |
| 20:39.07 | hrw | uf.. my d400 has empty slot on bottom |
| 20:39.18 | hrw | no need to dissasemble half of laptop to add ram |
| 20:39.22 | buz | hrw: true for my toshiba too |
| 20:39.25 | *** join/#openmoko DeVol (n=DeVol@dD5E04076.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:39.39 | hrw | buz: but other slot is under keyboard ;( |
| 20:39.42 | mwester | hrw: I think only the IBMs have the slot under the keyboard as far as I know. |
| 20:39.51 | hrw | mwester: dell d400 too |
| 20:39.53 | CoreDump|home | s/some/came |
| 20:40.04 | hrw | CoreDump|home: my is 2 years old |
| 20:40.05 | buz | CoreDump|home: which one |
| 20:40.14 | CoreDump|home | buz: Samsung R55 |
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| 20:41.31 | buz | that one is not on sale in switzerland i think |
| 20:42.33 | buz | wtf arent any sane laptops on sale here, anyway |
| 20:43.06 | CoreDump|home | well, twice |
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| 20:43.41 | noon | hello |
| 20:43.43 | buz | i live quite near to zurich |
| 20:44.21 | CoreDump|home | I stayed in a hotel called "Sonnental" |
| 20:44.28 | buz | finding a linux notebook with 1680*1050 is nigh impossible here |
| 20:44.37 | buz | never heard of |
| 20:44.51 | CoreDump|home | buz: that's quite a bad-ass rez |
| 20:45.01 | buz | lowest i can accept in 15.4 |
| 20:45.13 | buz | i would get 1920x1200 but thats even more rrare |
| 20:45.43 | buz | the more pixels the better |
| 20:45.48 | CoreDump|home | true |
| 20:46.09 | buz | only dell and lenovo z series have 1920x1200 |
| 20:46.12 | buz | and i dont like either one |
| 20:47.54 | CoreDump|home | lenovos linux support should be ok-ish as they come from IBM I guess |
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| 20:49.46 | quitte | counter |
| 20:49.47 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 4 days 19:35:07 (4.816±4.8 days) (1426;227) |
| 20:49.47 | buzco | CoreDump|home: technically yes |
| 20:49.57 | buzco | practically all neat thinkpads here have ati chipsets |
| 20:50.00 | quitte | wow that still works |
| 20:50.02 | buzco | and that ones are unusable |
| 20:50.08 | CoreDump|home | buzco: ugh =( |
| 20:50.10 | buzco | it's even so bad, that i just sold mine at a slight loss |
| 20:50.24 | buz | wtf happend with my nichk anyway |
| 20:50.54 | buz | the t60 was less than a month old, aside of the ati chip it was by far the best notebook i ever came across |
| 20:51.00 | buz | *sigh* |
| 20:51.20 | hrw | ati chipsets are OK. ati graphics cards suxx |
| 20:51.42 | buz | well its not really a graphic card in a notebook |
| 20:51.47 | buz | more like a chip ;) |
| 20:52.04 | buz | might be set of chips (not sure if dram is on chip or not) |
| 20:52.32 | quitte | seems it's a good time to ask for help buying a new desktop system? I'm looking for a good socket 479y board with dvi out |
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| 20:52.50 | buz | 479? |
| 20:52.54 | buz | hows that new? |
| 20:53.01 | quitte | core2duo mobile |
| 20:53.13 | buz | mhh htpc? |
| 20:53.21 | quitte | ht? |
| 20:53.33 | buz | home theater |
| 20:53.48 | quitte | no. I just want it to be energy efficient |
| 20:53.56 | buz | (personally i dont think i'd bother with mobile cpu in desktop, the boards are just too expensive) |
| 20:54.23 | quitte | my machine runs 24/7. it definately pays within one year |
| 20:54.24 | buz | and rare |
| 20:54.41 | buz | it's easier with amd |
| 20:54.53 | buz | there's standard socket low voltage cpu |
| 20:55.18 | buz | and i think they have nforce boards with dvi |
| 20:55.26 | quitte | maybe but how would I get a decent gfx card with free drivers then? |
| 20:55.36 | buz | you dont ;) |
| 20:57.07 | quitte | basically I want what the imac provides but about half the price. I found a lot of similar boards but they always are slightly of my wishes |
| 20:58.27 | buz | get the mac mini |
| 20:58.38 | buz | i dont think you can really get any cheaper with that specs |
| 20:59.59 | quitte | yes you can. the mac mini is core duo. so i'd need a new cpu to get 64bit. |
| 21:00.24 | buz | oh i never cared for 64bit |
| 21:01.17 | quitte | i'm completely sick of all the trouble you run into with more than a gig of ram. don't want hat ever again. |
| 21:01.27 | hrw | I have to admit that dell service manual is good |
| 21:01.40 | hrw | and openmoko screwdriver fits dell screws :) |
| 21:01.51 | buz | wtf? i never had any issues with 2GB ram |
| 21:02.30 | buz | with >3GB maybe |
| 21:02.31 | hrw | buz: some people does not like that lowmem/highmem things |
| 21:02.34 | quitte | i even had trouble with xen and just 1G of ram |
| 21:02.39 | CoreDump|home | quitte: lol? I've been using 2Gb for _years_ w/o problems |
| 21:02.54 | buz | yeah me too |
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| 21:03.28 | buz | even on really cheap desktop boards |
| 21:03.49 | Psi_ | i had 2gb for quite a while with no problems too |
| 21:04.00 | CoreDump|home | while we are so obviously off-topic: did anyone here try running a Core 2 Quad in a Shuttle barebone? |
| 21:04.12 | CoreDump|home | the psu's look quite under-powered for that |
| 21:04.13 | buz | i have bad experiene with shuttle |
| 21:04.27 | buz | they are noise, mainboards and psu fail all the time |
| 21:04.34 | CoreDump|home | buz: =\ |
| 21:05.01 | buz | core 2 quad is way overpriced anyway |
| 21:05.09 | CoreDump|home | ~500€ |
| 21:05.33 | buz | i dont think i ever paid more than 150EUR for a cpu in the past 7 years |
| 21:05.44 | buz | (maybe aside of notebooks, where it's not always clear just how much the cpu really costs) |
| 21:06.05 | CoreDump|home | buz: I need a build machine, c2q looks like a very good choice for that |
| 21:06.59 | buz | looks memory starved to me |
| 21:07.05 | noon | is there a way to build the openmoko system for my desktop computer with the gcc and binutils from my desktop without using monotone and a crosscompiler? |
| 21:07.05 | CoreDump|home | oh well, it will have to wait a few month anyway |
| 21:07.08 | buz | opteron might be a better fit |
| 21:07.37 | CoreDump|home | buz: but C2D smokes Optereon* in each and every benchmark. |
| 21:07.48 | buz | in 2 way sure |
| 21:07.59 | buz | i wouldnt entirely bet it to be the same in 4way config |
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| 21:08.33 | CoreDump|home | buz: interesting, I shall do some research into the matter, thanks for the headsup =) |
| 21:08.47 | buz | but then again i have never needed 4way |
| 21:09.02 | buz | it's just that HT is inherently a better design for massively parallel configs than intels FSB cruft |
| 21:09.37 | buz | and who knows, maybe barcelona will be here soon |
| 21:09.58 | quitte | barcelona? |
| 21:10.09 | CoreDump|home | hmm, many things can change in a few month, that is for certain |
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| 21:11.08 | buz | barcelona is something like K9 or K10 |
| 21:11.46 | buz | tho if you really need performance, there's no way around power6 ;) |
| 21:12.38 | quitte | ah. I'm glad amd is ruled out because of the gfx. once I figured out what cpu I want I was urprised to see just how big a mess it is to decide on a chipset |
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| 21:13.52 | buz | well for a build machine gfx shouldnt matter much |
| 21:14.04 | CoreDump|home | exactly |
| 21:14.08 | quitte | that'S CoreDump|homes prblem ;) |
| 21:14.21 | CoreDump|home | gfx? I don't think so |
| 21:14.23 | hrw | speaking about gfx.. I need cheap pci-express nvidia card - what you suggest? |
| 21:14.24 | buz | it's quite simple rellay |
| 21:14.40 | CoreDump|home | hrw: the ~70€ Asus passively cooled one |
| 21:14.41 | buz | buy intel 965 with integrated graphics |
| 21:14.51 | buz | that should soon supported by any linux distro |
| 21:15.06 | hrw | CoreDump|home: I want 30-40EUR one ;) |
| 21:15.07 | quitte | buz thats santa rosa? I haven'T seen a single 975< board,yet |
| 21:15.12 | CoreDump|home | hrw: heh sry |
| 21:15.16 | quitte | s/</y |
| 21:15.17 | buz | santa rosa is for notebook i think |
| 21:15.28 | quitte | buz: yes |
| 21:15.30 | buz | 965 for desktop should have been around since a while??? |
| 21:15.37 | buz | (but i dont track desktop these days) |
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| 21:15.50 | CoreDump|home | buz: it is |
| 21:15.56 | quitte | buz: unfortunately they didn't make any 965 boards with 975y socket afaict |
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| 21:17.07 | buz | check industrial pc makers |
| 21:17.13 | buz | their boards are very expensive |
| 21:17.17 | noon | bye |
| 21:17.18 | buz | but usually come up with very exotic stuff |
| 21:17.31 | hrw | 965 boards lack DVI :( |
| 21:18.43 | quitte | bah. board manufacturers should involve the community more. seems to work very nicely for the neo |
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| 21:19.32 | buz | quitte: fic makes mainboards |
| 21:19.39 | buz | you should talk to them ;) |
| 21:20.07 | quitte | sure. once p1.5 is on sale |
| 21:22.09 | buz | maybe they could also start making high quality laptops |
| 21:22.09 | buz | with guaranteed linux support |
| 21:22.11 | buz | i would so buy that |
| 21:22.15 | CoreDump|home | same here |
| 21:22.26 | Kensan | mickey|dinner: pulseaudio reciped contains an error which breaks Mokomakefile dev-image for x86. I attached a patch to bugzilla (Bug #599). |
| 21:22.28 | buz | but it would have to thinkpad like quality |
| 21:22.57 | buz | shouldnt even be that hard |
| 21:23.06 | buz | (mkaing linux notebooks i mean) |
| 21:23.59 | quitte | and it needs a trackpoint. I don't even like using a mouse anymore. |
| 21:24.14 | buz | actually i still prefer mice to trackpoint |
| 21:24.16 | CoreDump|home | buz: yeah, with up-to-date components (BT2, 54Mbit WIFI, card reader etc) and 100% OSS drivers |
| 21:24.22 | CoreDump|home | I would _so_ buy it |
| 21:24.30 | buz | its not very hard actually |
| 21:24.36 | buz | just use all intel components and you're set |
| 21:24.42 | quitte | don't forget a free bios |
| 21:24.43 | buz | and use a sane bios |
| 21:24.47 | CoreDump|home | buz: That's why I buy samsung =) |
| 21:24.57 | buz | yeah lenovo can do that too |
| 21:25.00 | buz | they just wont sell it to me |
| 21:25.02 | buz | idiots |
| 21:25.05 | CoreDump|home | buz: only the DVB-T receiver won't work |
| 21:25.19 | buz | i dont care much for tv |
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| 21:27.53 | hrw | cu |
| 21:29.41 | CoreDump|home | cya hrw|gone |
| 21:30.33 | quitte | hmm. at 300dpi a 12.1" display would be pretty much exactly 1600x1200. |
| 21:30.33 | CoreDump|home | buz: Neither do I. I don't even know when I last turned on my TV at home. But it is a matter of principle. If I spend $$$$ for a notebook, all its components should work |
| 21:30.53 | buz | na |
| 21:30.56 | buz | only the ones i care about |
| 21:31.49 | CoreDump|home | buz: I wrote a Linux Howto about the previous Samasung I owned. Samsung poited to my homepage when you were looking for "Linux Support" hehe |
| 21:31.59 | buz | nice |
| 21:32.39 | CoreDump|home | also I wrote a nasty mail to (incompetent) german Samsung Technical Support about their shoddy VGA BIOS |
| 21:33.03 | CoreDump|home | never received an answer but the newer samsungs have a _much_ improved BIOS |
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| 21:34.35 | buz | vga bios might not even be their fault |
| 21:34.41 | buz | those can come from vga vendor too |
| 21:36.23 | CoreDump|home | true |
| 21:36.47 | CoreDump|home | but I have to say, Samsung has one of the _worst_ websites I've ever seen |
| 21:40.06 | buz | lenovo's is quite likely worse |
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| 21:41.41 | CoreDump|home | It usually takes me an hour to find the correct download site for my laptop ( there are multiple but only providing windows crap ) |
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| 22:16.34 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]] [[Community_Events]] [[Press_Coverage]] |
| 22:28.33 | rwhitby | morning |
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| 23:39.25 | LuitvD | well well, it seems like AT&T's sales guide leaked :D |
| 23:39.35 | LuitvD | info about the iPhone :) yummy |
| 23:40.47 | LuitvD | haven't seen anything really revolutionary though... |
| 23:41.40 | adhoc_ | LuitvD: you're suggesting that there will be an iPhone? |
| 23:41.50 | adhoc_ | LuitvD: from apple? or Linksys? |
| 23:42.07 | LuitvD | adhoc_: apple iphone |
| 23:42.22 | LuitvD | adhoc_: do you think there won't be one then? |
| 23:43.53 | adhoc_ | no idea, but there was a legal wrangle going on, i wasn't holding out for it tho |
| 23:44.08 | adhoc_ | so har far away, do you recon? |
| 23:44.16 | adhoc_ | s/har/how/ |
| 23:44.32 | LuitvD | adhoc_: they announced it for the 29th in the US |
| 23:45.15 | LuitvD | and AT&T salesmen (and women ofcourse) have recieved a Sales Training Workbook for the iPhone |
| 23:45.21 | LuitvD | now already |
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| 23:47.52 | LuitvD | i guess linksys' (cisco's) claims didn't stop apple from using the brand name... |
| 23:48.01 | LuitvD | isn't cisco systems canadian? |
| 23:55.44 | SpeedEvil | Apple paid cisco |
| 23:55.49 | SpeedEvil | IIRRC |
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