| 00:00.40 | sparq | bmidgley: I'm pretty sure that the "speed limit" on GPS devices has nothing to do with weapon systems. |
| 00:01.19 | pavelm_away | cworth: Just hit the submit button :-) |
| 00:02.28 | SpeedEvil | sparq: it explicitly does. |
| 00:02.49 | sparq | SpeedEvil: If you've got a reference, I'd love to see it |
| 00:02.55 | SpeedEvil | sparq: it's in the ITAR legislation right after kick motors that can drop satellites out of orbit, and right before nuclear weapons test equipment |
| 00:03.06 | SpeedEvil | Yes, it's silly. |
| 00:03.14 | Vegar | it's not silly, it's american |
| 00:03.40 | SpeedEvil | Oh - it's patriotic, and in aid of democracy then. I forgot. |
| 00:05.19 | bmidgley | SpeedEvil: you just tripped a spook filter |
| 00:05.36 | sparq | Ah. The limit is 1000 knots, which is well above mach 1. |
| 00:06.14 | bmidgley | sparq: oh surprising it's so high |
| 00:06.14 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - you won't hit it on normal gliders. |
| 00:06.29 | SpeedEvil | You could hit it on concorde. |
| 00:06.35 | bmidgley | I thought that limit was why my bt gps stopped working on a commercial flight |
| 00:06.40 | bmidgley | just a crappy gps :( |
| 00:07.28 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 00:08.06 | sparq | Given that GPS often doesn't work in a car, with giant windows, it's not *that* surprising it won't work in an airplane. |
| 00:08.25 | SpeedEvil | giant - often metal coated for heat reflection - windows. |
| 00:08.36 | SpeedEvil | Or window heaters. |
| 00:08.38 | sparq | Point. |
| 00:08.52 | SpeedEvil | It works just fine in my small car. |
| 00:08.59 | SpeedEvil | Even inside the glove box. |
| 00:09.31 | bmidgley | sparq: it's an itrek m3 (sirf iii) and it had a 3d fix while the plane was stationary |
| 00:10.31 | bmidgley | I figured it would be ok to turn on my bt gps on a flight while they were running free wifi |
| 00:10.41 | sparq | bmidgley: I'd blame the receiver before blaming the speed limit, though. ^_^ |
| 00:11.57 | sparq | bmidgley: the cuising speed of a 747 is about 500 knots, so it's below the limit by about a factor of two |
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| 00:14.09 | bmidgley | sparq: yeah, I think they like to charge more for something that will run at higher speeds. could even be the marketing department setting that artificial limit |
| 00:14.20 | bmidgley | "for aviation" |
| 00:14.51 | sparq | This is why I want a software radio. |
| 00:15.07 | SpeedEvil | No, you don't. |
| 00:15.17 | sparq | Oh? |
| 00:15.20 | SpeedEvil | Unless you want to change the battery every 7 minutes. |
| 00:15.37 | sparq | Ha ha! No, I didn't mean in the Neo. I mean generally. ^_^ |
| 00:15.44 | bmidgley | I really can't wait to try out the gps. I don't even have the binary-only driver ;( |
| 00:16.37 | bmidgley | I wonder if this one will be on par with sirf iii |
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| 00:19.17 | SpeedEvil | In theory - if the specs can be believed - it may be better. |
| 00:19.38 | SpeedEvil | Tehre are indications that the driver shipped may not exploit the hardware to its limits. |
| 00:22.21 | CoreDump|home | to put it mildly |
| 00:22.33 | CoreDump|home | IOW the driver is crap ;) |
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| 02:00.41 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] [[Action_Button]] |
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| 02:10.41 | SpeedEvil | Finally. Annoying webmailer timed out while I was writing the accelerometer email. Thankfully I'd copied it to wiki. |
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| 02:23.48 | srbaker | heya folks |
| 02:23.48 | srbaker | i can't find the link to buy an openmoko phone |
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| 02:23.49 | Clint | which link is that? |
| 02:23.58 | srbaker | dunno. i want to buy a neo1973 |
| 02:24.07 | SpeedEvil | Me too! |
| 02:24.08 | SpeedEvil | Alas. |
| 02:24.12 | SpeedEvil | No linkey yet. |
| 02:24.18 | srbaker | and at one point, i got to a page where i could buy one. i can't find it now |
| 02:24.19 | srbaker | damnit |
| 02:24.25 | SpeedEvil | No, you diddn't. |
| 02:24.51 | SpeedEvil | You may be thinking of the buying interest list. |
| 02:24.55 | srbaker | ? |
| 02:24.56 | srbaker | oh |
| 02:24.57 | SpeedEvil | But that's not a preorder list. |
| 02:24.57 | srbaker | sigh |
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| 02:28.37 | srbaker | damn. oh well |
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| 02:58.11 | summatusmentis | I'm not very familiar w/ the neo1973, it will be fully functional as a mainstream phone in sept. right? |
| 02:59.19 | hads | That depends on the developers |
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| 03:05.58 | SpeedEvil | summatusmentis: that was the initial plan. However. |
| 03:06.10 | SpeedEvil | The initial timeline had 9 months - Jan-Sep before launch. |
| 03:06.25 | SpeedEvil | Now-Sep - well, it's doubtfull. |
| 03:06.47 | SpeedEvil | The _hardware_ should be available. |
| 03:07.01 | SpeedEvil | The software should work as a basic phone, with some more less-basic apps in there. |
| 03:07.14 | SpeedEvil | And probably some quite polished apps. |
| 03:07.43 | SpeedEvil | Oh - and finished the 0th cut of |
| 03:07.43 | SpeedEvil | Neglecting roll for the moment. |
| 03:07.43 | SpeedEvil | 1mG is an accelleration of 1cm/s^2. |
| 03:07.43 | SpeedEvil | If the accelerometers are spaced 10cm apart, then the radius between each and the center is 5cm, meaning the circumference of the circle is 30cm. |
| 03:07.44 | SpeedEvil | Integrating over 1s, noise is around 3cm/s^2. |
| 03:07.45 | SpeedEvil | After 1s, if you happen to hit an average noise peak in each accellerometer at the opposite point - something that'll happen once every 5-10 seconds or so, (absolute peaks are much worse) what happens to the pointing? |
| 03:07.48 | SpeedEvil | Well - the velocity reads out as 6cm/s^2 wrong, which means that the position is now out by 3cm, or 10 degrees. |
| 03:07.51 | SpeedEvil | gah |
| 03:08.09 | SpeedEvil | of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Accelerometer_Fundamentals |
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| 03:10.49 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: ok... so a final, fully polished product is a ways out yet? |
| 03:14.31 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 03:14.47 | SpeedEvil | I'd say probably december earliest. |
| 03:14.53 | SpeedEvil | But there have been no announcements. |
| 03:15.10 | SpeedEvil | The hardware works fine. |
| 03:15.29 | SpeedEvil | So if all you want is a pocket linux X box, with a touchscreen, GPS, ... then it'll work for you now. |
| 03:15.40 | SpeedEvil | (well - in a coupleo f weeksish) |
| 03:15.50 | SpeedEvil | The software will carry on being updated. |
| 03:18.12 | summatusmentis | nope, I've got a Zaurus, so that provides mostly what I need in that arena |
| 03:18.51 | summatusmentis | I'm on CDMA right now, and i"ll be moving to an area this fall for college that doesn't have good cdma reception, so I'm looking for a functional phone |
| 03:19.09 | summatusmentis | preferably doing everything my Z can, and more :-P |
| 03:25.49 | hads | Get in there and help out then :) |
| 03:29.40 | summatusmentis | hads: if I had any coding experience, and vast amouts of monetary funds, I would be |
| 03:29.59 | summatusmentis | but as it is, I have no money, and no GSM service, and minimal coding experience |
| 03:30.28 | SpeedEvil | You _can_ code without the phone. |
| 03:30.44 | SpeedEvil | You don't even need an emulator for much stuff. |
| 03:31.02 | SpeedEvil | As it's basically a conventional X box, just pocket-sized. |
| 03:31.09 | summatusmentis | xorg? |
| 03:31.10 | SpeedEvil | And touchscreen. |
| 03:31.21 | SpeedEvil | Yes, it's basically a 'normal' linux distribution. |
| 03:31.24 | SpeedEvil | Just for phones. |
| 03:31.56 | SpeedEvil | The idea is to leverage all the nice desktop stuff. |
| 03:32.07 | SpeedEvil | Rather than having to write it all from scratch. |
| 03:32.34 | CoreDump|afk | summatusmentis: *cough* angstrom runs on it just fine *cough* |
| 03:33.05 | summatusmentis | CoreDump|afk: :-) |
| 03:33.43 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: yeah, sounds extremely interesting, but I don't want to plunk down $350 for a phone that isn't... polished, you know? |
| 03:33.51 | SpeedEvil | Fair enough. |
| 03:34.02 | summatusmentis | I don't want my contact list crashing on me, and so forth :-P |
| 03:34.54 | SpeedEvil | Personally - the nice stuff it can do - I'm interested in GPS logging with voice tags over bluetooth - for example - is useful enough to me. |
| 03:35.23 | summatusmentis | in case you didn't make the connection, I run Angstrom on my Zaurus, so I'm no stranger to OE and bugreports :-P |
| 03:35.47 | summatusmentis | yeah, I'd just prefer my phone to Just Work(tm), you know? |
| 03:36.09 | summatusmentis | then, once it does, then I can start hacking it >_> |
| 03:36.47 | SpeedEvil | It is real close to working as a 'normal' basic phone - more advanced apps are some way off. |
| 03:37.00 | summatusmentis | advanced apps meaning? |
| 03:38.53 | SpeedEvil | media player, picture viewer, IM, ... |
| 03:40.13 | summatusmentis | oh, I see |
| 03:40.19 | summatusmentis | what about tethering? |
| 03:40.46 | SpeedEvil | tethering? |
| 03:40.56 | summatusmentis | sorry, using the phone as a modem |
| 03:41.09 | SpeedEvil | You can do that now - but it's not polished. |
| 03:41.24 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it. |
| 03:43.35 | summatusmentis | oh cool, ok. I'm not terribly concerned about the 'polishedness' of that... that's one of the key things I want working though |
| 03:44.06 | SpeedEvil | I've not actually used it though. |
| 03:44.09 | SpeedEvil | So... |
| 03:45.00 | summatusmentis | mm, yeah |
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| 03:58.17 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting perhaps any day now <> Mass market in September. |
| 03:58.28 | summatusmentis | bmidgley: slow as in? |
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| 03:58.44 | summatusmentis | not to be annoying, but slow is subjective |
| 03:59.23 | bmidgley | 40kbps, 1000ms round trips |
| 03:59.49 | bmidgley | I've seen 600kbps using umts but the neo is only gprs |
| 04:00.40 | bmidgley | that was 600kbps using bluetooth 1.1 so it might go higher w usb or bt2 |
| 04:00.51 | bmidgley | DUN |
| 04:00.53 | summatusmentis | ok, so not terribly bad, but by no means 'broadband' |
| 04:00.55 | summatusmentis | ok, thanks |
| 04:03.41 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] |
| 04:05.58 | summatusmentis | thanks for the answers bmidgley, and SpeedEvil |
| 04:06.14 | summatusmentis | now, I've gotta sleep, but I'll probably be lurking for a while :-) |
| 04:10.15 | happycube | i wonder what gprs class the neo's modem can do |
| 04:11.46 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 04:12.11 | SpeedEvil | I need to do a little animation of a Neo, dancing in accordance with simulated noise on the acellerometers. |
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| 06:19.44 | wehttamb_ | counter |
| 06:19.49 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week 05:40:11 (7.236±6.0 days) (1401;225) |
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| 06:24.09 | sparq | I forgot the Neo had accelerometers! I could probably hack together a scrolling interface that way... |
| 06:24.59 | sparq | I guess I have an excuse to play with a Wii now. ^_^ |
| 06:26.12 | agui | Hi. If I want to run qtopia-free on neo1973, how to do it? |
| 06:27.11 | aloril | agui: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 06:27.54 | agui | ok, thanks |
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| 06:28.33 | sparq | agui: I think it's technically possible, but you'd be in for a fair bit of work |
| 06:32.15 | sparq | I imagine that someday, there will be enough mobile Linux devices that there will be distributions targeting multiple hardware platforms, but at the moment, each device basically requires a custom distro. |
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| 06:40.55 | wehttamb_ | where does it say that the neo has accelerometers? |
| 06:41.58 | koen | linuxtag presentation, slide 21 |
| 06:42.55 | wehttamb_ | where is this presentation |
| 06:43.40 | koen | on the internet |
| 06:45.04 | wehttamb_ | yea i figured that |
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| 06:48.36 | wehttamb_ | hey i found it :) |
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| 06:59.47 | wehttamb_ | are the accelerometers 3 axis? |
| 07:00.02 | guaqua | 2 2-axis to do 3-axs |
| 07:00.08 | guaqua | 2x2-axis that is |
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| 07:07.31 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 07:18.45 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Accelerometer in next hardware revision? |
| 07:19.12 | sparq | SpeedEvil: Drat. The Wiki doesn't seem to support equations. |
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| 07:36.22 | LuitvD | counter |
| 07:37.13 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week 04:22:54 (7.183±6.0 days) (1402;225) |
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| 07:52.36 | hrw | morning |
| 07:52.42 | buz | http://news.com.com/Via+trots+out+mini+notebook,+mobile+motherboard/2100-1041_3-6188565.html via wants to put x86 chips into phones??? |
| 07:53.14 | hrw | why not? |
| 07:54.36 | buz | so far they dont really have any that dont suck oodles of power |
| 07:54.36 | *** join/#openmoko simon__ (n=simon@h98n2fls301o1032.telia.com) |
| 07:58.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2170 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c): |
| 07:58.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_infoline_new), (child_setup), |
| 07:58.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (today_launcher_clicked_cb), (create_ui): |
| 07:58.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Use argv array to start applications. Open the dialer with --show-missed when |
| 07:58.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: missed call info is clicked |
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| 08:19.34 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:19.34 | lrak | yeah .. but the phones arent supposed to be turned on |
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| 08:23.08 | tri | hi |
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| 08:36.31 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 08:39.05 | LuitvD | morning |
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| 08:47.56 | TRIsoft | Something from Computex: http://www.texyt.com/FIC+OpenMoko+$350+open+Linux+mobile+phone+launch+00100 |
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| 08:49.36 | Moo^^ | digg'ed it! :) |
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| 08:58.27 | lrak | The topic has been updated |
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| 09:08.52 | cheesy | counter |
| 09:09.01 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: a week 02:51:04 (7.119±6.0 days) (1403;225) |
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| 09:37.17 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2171 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-history.c dialer-window-outgoing.c): Fix call ordering in history; Clean up journal code for outgoing calls |
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| 09:44.08 | nobody96 | moin |
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| 10:03.10 | nobody96 | has anyone encounterd a missing asm/page.h error during the perl-native build? |
| 10:03.22 | nobody96 | and got it fixed? |
| 10:03.41 | nobody96 | argl... denglisch |
| 10:03.45 | nobody96 | fixed ist? |
| 10:03.56 | nobody96 | i need more coffe, sry |
| 10:04.00 | nobody96 | -t |
| 10:04.00 | Placid | heh |
| 10:04.05 | Placid | +e |
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| 10:05.20 | hrw | nobody96: openmoko use old OE snapshot. this bug was fixed in OE |
| 10:06.43 | nobody96 | and what am i supposed to do now? :) |
| 10:07.05 | nobody96 | im not used to the devel enviroment yet |
| 10:07.20 | hrw | complain to bugtracker |
| 10:08.42 | nobody96 | ok... |
| 10:10.21 | nobody96 | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=444 already there |
| 10:11.01 | nobody96 | nice, i have to use 2.6.21 to build qemu properly but than i cannot build the devel-env |
| 10:11.40 | nobody96 | nice, i have to use 2.6.21 to build qemu properly but than i cannot build the devel-env |
| 10:11.41 | nobody96 | hu |
| 10:11.43 | nobody96 | sry |
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| 10:19.04 | SpeedEvil | sparq: the neo - the to be released in a couple of weeks model - doesn't. |
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| 10:19.26 | Placid | wow nobody, you really need coffee :P |
| 10:19.35 | SpeedEvil | sparq: and the equations were just typed as x * y - I don't know if it does or doesn't. |
| 10:21.13 | sparq | SpeedEvil: I tried retyping them using the MediaWiki math format used on WikiPedia, and it doesn't seem to know what to do with it |
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| 10:32.31 | SpeedEvil | sparq: Oh |
| 10:34.13 | nobody96 | Placid, now i got one :) |
| 10:34.23 | Placid | nobody96: grats :D enjoy! |
| 10:34.28 | nobody96 | i doo |
| 10:34.36 | nobody96 | -o |
| 10:35.18 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2172 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c src/today-main.c): |
| 10:35.18 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/today-events-area.c: (get_property), (init_left_hand_side): Add icon to |
| 10:35.18 | CIA-24 | openmoko: events area |
| 10:35.19 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/today-main.c: (today_launcher_button_new): Fix launchers |
| 10:37.57 | sparq | SpeedEvil: There's probably a plugin or something. |
| 10:38.42 | SpeedEvil | Or there is always the 'little gif' solution. |
| 10:38.51 | SpeedEvil | But they are not that important. |
| 10:39.12 | SpeedEvil | The important demo I suspect is a graphical one. |
| 10:39.19 | SpeedEvil | Show a stationary neo. |
| 10:39.55 | SpeedEvil | Now, compute random noise on the accelerometers, and integrate it so that it gives an apparent position. |
| 10:40.12 | SpeedEvil | Turn the neo into this position - and continue as an animation. |
| 10:40.59 | SpeedEvil | To give an idea of the fake motion that you have to ignore. |
| 10:42.01 | SpeedEvil | With gravity, it'll basically be a slow random spin about the gravity axis - increasing the more the phone is tilted vertical |
| 10:43.41 | Placid | :O |
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| 11:23.46 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering why the accelerometer Harald posted that they were considering had no stated noise figure in the datasheet. That'd be because it's a 7 bit ADC that can't resolve the noise... |
| 11:25.25 | SpeedEvil | This makes it essentially useless for anything but detecting the pitch/yaw of the phone now. You can't do meaningful dead reckoning even in a car, with it strapped down. |
| 11:26.09 | ewon | why would you want to do dead reckoning with it when we have a gps receiver? |
| 11:26.20 | SpeedEvil | GPS recievers don't work so well in tunnels. |
| 11:26.54 | ewon | ah |
| 11:26.57 | SpeedEvil | With the accelerometer in the Wii - used optimally - you get about 30-60s of useful information. |
| 11:27.10 | SpeedEvil | And a bit more than that of rough heading information. |
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| 11:28.26 | SpeedEvil | I need to do some actual sums and research. |
| 11:28.50 | cheesy | so maybe in the future i can use my phone as wiimote ;) |
| 11:28.54 | SpeedEvil | That one harald linked to is comparatively expensive - it may be possible to get cheaper and better at the same time with a two-chip solution. |
| 11:29.09 | SpeedEvil | It'd need a camera. - generally. |
| 11:29.29 | SpeedEvil | The wiimote has a little few thousand pixel camera that picks up the 'sensor bar'. |
| 11:30.34 | cheesy | ok..i just play..i don't know exactly how it works..but you can replace the sonsor bar with two candles |
| 11:32.15 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - they emit enough IR that it's picked up. |
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| 11:34.57 | cheesy | ok! now I learned something! thx SpeedEvil |
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| 12:12.36 | sxpert-work | having the following problem with mokomakefile / mtn: 37.7 M | 1.9 M | 23,398/23,398 | 5,785/5,785 |
| 12:12.36 | sxpert-work | mtn: error: I/O failure while talking to peer monotone.openembedded.org, disconnecting |
| 12:12.36 | sxpert-work | make: *** [setup-mtn] Error 1 |
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| 12:13.00 | zecke | sxpert-work: retry? |
| 12:13.01 | sxpert-work | apparently running "make setup" again downloads the whole .bz2 file again... |
| 12:13.10 | sxpert-work | which is rather useless :'( |
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| 12:13.50 | jsmanrique | hi |
| 12:13.57 | sxpert-work | retying downloads the OE.mtn.bz2 file again and spews : |
| 12:13.59 | sxpert-work | bunzip2: Output file OE.mtn already exists. |
| 12:13.59 | sxpert-work | make: *** [setup-mtn] Error 1 |
| 12:14.02 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: so look in the Makefile and run the commands it would run |
| 12:14.07 | sxpert-work | ok |
| 12:14.51 | rwhitby | and then think of how it could be written differently, but not fail in the case where the file is only half downloaded ... |
| 12:15.09 | sxpert-work | heh |
| 12:15.33 | sxpert-work | guess it should test for an existing OE.mtn file ... |
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| 12:17.22 | SpeedEvil | How does it try to download? |
| 12:17.54 | sxpert-work | with wget or somethign. |
| 12:18.00 | SpeedEvil | add the -c flag? |
| 12:18.06 | SpeedEvil | wget -c url |
| 12:18.15 | sxpert-work | thing is, bunzipping the file gives a OE.mtn file only. |
| 12:18.15 | rwhitby | already has it |
| 12:18.17 | SpeedEvil | if the file is up to date just does nothing |
| 12:18.21 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 12:18.42 | SpeedEvil | Add the -k flag to bzip |
| 12:18.45 | SpeedEvil | Add the -k flag to bzip2 |
| 12:18.53 | SpeedEvil | to make it not delete the file |
| 12:18.54 | sxpert-work | yeah. |
| 12:19.48 | sxpert-work | and bunzip2 fails if OE.mtn is already there, duh ! |
| 12:20.34 | SpeedEvil | Adding -f will force bzip to overwrite |
| 12:20.55 | sxpert-work | yeah, but that would overwrite all monotone modifications |
| 12:21.01 | SpeedEvil | Hmm |
| 12:21.24 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r96 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Made bunzip2 keep the original file until the mtn operations are completed, and also made it overwrite an existing file. |
| 12:21.57 | rwhitby | sxpert-work, SpeedEvil: thanks for the input |
| 12:22.14 | sxpert-work | rwhitby: no problem :D |
| 12:23.44 | sxpert-work | rwhitby: well bunzip2 should only be run if the OE.mtn file is not there |
| 12:23.50 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 12:24.27 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, please please add an option like so "make qemu-run-vnc"...and thanks for the mokomakefile |
| 12:25.52 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: have to run bunzip2 again, in case you run out of disk space half-way through decompressing, and then free up some place, and then run this again without removing the half-written output file |
| 12:26.13 | rwhitby | s/place/space/ |
| 12:27.09 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: what would 'qemu-run-vnc' do? |
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| 12:29.31 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, it would redirect the display over vnc session, just add '-vnc localhost:1 -monitor stdio' as an option |
| 12:31.11 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: does it do that instead of the normal display, or as well as the normal display? |
| 12:31.46 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, i guess instead..you use a vncviewer, to get the display.. |
| 12:32.17 | sxpert-work | rwhitby: ah yeah, that. you need some way to note that the bunzip2 process was successful so that you don't run over an already successful one |
| 12:33.23 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: starting to get a bit too complex, just to save the time of the bunzip2, on a target which should only ever be run once if it works. |
| 12:33.57 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: if you give the -vnc option, does it do that as well as the normal window? If so, I can just add it to the normal target. |
| 12:34.39 | sxpert-work | rwhitby: it's more like saving the time of doing monotone work that re-running bunzip2 would undo |
| 12:35.36 | rwhitby | ok, that's true. |
| 12:36.06 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, no...with a -vnc option set, you wont get a display unless you use some vnc viewer..so i dont think there would be many happy faces if you append the options to the existing target |
| 12:36.31 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: that's why I was asking :-) |
| 12:37.08 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, :), i guess the closest analogy is that of xoo...but man, thanks for the script...will buy you a pint someday |
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| 12:40.18 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: I'm splitting setup-mtn into two targets |
| 12:40.49 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Address_Field]] [[Screen_Grabber]] [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] |
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| 12:44.18 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r97 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Split the downloading of OE.mtn.bz2 from the monotone migrate and pull, to save doing things twice if something fails. |
| 12:44.36 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: take a look at that one |
| 12:46.58 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r98 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added run-qemu-vnc target |
| 12:47.06 | rwhitby | Sup3rkiddo: please test that |
| 12:50.00 | Sup3rkiddo | rwhitby, yup..works..thanks |
| 12:51.28 | rwhitby | sxpert-work: success? |
| 12:52.54 | sxpert-work | looks good |
| 12:54.04 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: What does that target do? |
| 12:54.26 | rwhitby | abraxa_: look up a page or two |
| 12:54.34 | abraxa_ | I just joined the chan :) |
| 12:54.36 | rwhitby | oh, you just joined |
| 12:54.42 | rwhitby | ask Sup3rkiddo :-) |
| 12:54.46 | abraxa_ | hehe okie |
| 12:55.06 | abraxa_ | Sup3rkiddo, mind enlightening me? |
| 12:55.17 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, redirects the display over a vnc session,,, |
| 12:55.59 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, you have been enlightened |
| 12:56.11 | abraxa_ | Indeed ;) |
| 12:56.31 | abraxa_ | I take it you don't use it when running qemu locally, so what do you use it for? |
| 12:57.18 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, i was having troubles with certain key combinations...running it over vnc solved it |
| 12:57.33 | abraxa_ | Interesting... |
| 12:57.46 | rwhitby | ~emulate rwhitby |
| 12:58.01 | apt | Another Satisfied Customer! |
| 12:58.02 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, dont ask me how..i havent got an idea |
| 12:58.03 | Sup3rkiddo | :| |
| 12:59.10 | kiney | counter |
| 12:59.11 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 6 days 23:00:49 (6.959±6.0 days) (1404;225) |
| 13:00.52 | Sup3rkiddo | abraxa_, ask empty_mind..he might know whatsup |
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| 13:08.32 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2173 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-history.c dialer-window-outgoing.c): Added some printf's for outgoing calls, to detect segfault |
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| 13:17.48 | aloril | seems counter page (and counter probability needs updating, later today or tomorrow) |
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| 13:44.11 | zecke | abraxa_: just ask here :) |
| 13:44.34 | abraxa_ | zecke: Oh, it's about how you set up your development environment and all |
| 13:44.51 | zecke | abraxa_: it is best suited here :) |
| 13:44.57 | abraxa_ | okie then |
| 13:45.04 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 13:45.12 | zecke | abraxa_: I have a Feisty Fawn, develop against gtk+ 2.10 |
| 13:45.16 | abraxa_ | Do you test it by running it directly under X or do you use Zephy/qemu/whatever? |
| 13:45.30 | zecke | abraxa_: I use remote X to the Xserver on my mac |
| 13:45.44 | abraxa_ | And how do you resolve the dependencies on the openmoko libs? |
| 13:45.56 | abraxa_ | Did you compile and install them locally? |
| 13:46.26 | zecke | abraxa_: I have /space/zecke/private/openmoko/install and install everything there (--prefix the_dir) |
| 13:46.41 | zecke | abraxa_: this includes deps of the RSS Reader itself, EDS and openmoko-libs |
| 13:46.52 | abraxa_ | As in configure --prefix foo? |
| 13:47.02 | zecke | abraxa_: and then you simply set PKG_CONFIG_PATH to the right spot and everything should be fine |
| 13:47.05 | zecke | abraxa_: yes |
| 13:47.16 | abraxa_ | Ah okie |
| 13:47.41 | abraxa_ | I tried that but I couldn't get all openmoko libs to compile on my system because they themselves had dependencies I couldn't resolve |
| 13:47.49 | abraxa_ | I'll give it a shot again later, though |
| 13:47.49 | aloril | near end of http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8574715471341709984 Sean talks availability for GTA01Bv4 (if I understood it correctly) |
| 13:48.20 | aloril | date mentioned is late June or very early July, but I didn't get whether he mean Taiwan only or whole world |
| 13:48.26 | abraxa_ | I figured it would be easier to use the bitbake system and test under qemu but that was not so successful... |
| 13:48.54 | aloril | anybody else watched that? |
| 13:49.13 | abraxa_ | Not me, aloril :) |
| 13:49.15 | DukeOfURL | yes, very interesting |
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| 13:52.37 | *** join/#openmoko nroej (n=joern@heaven.cyphertext.de) |
| 13:52.39 | nroej | hi |
| 13:53.05 | abraxa_ | Hewwos |
| 13:54.09 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2174 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: More debugging |
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| 13:54.32 | cheesy | is the whole video in a language i don't understand? |
| 13:55.12 | slider_ | after 5 minutes or so ist english |
| 13:55.19 | slider_ | *its |
| 13:55.25 | abraxa_ | What is it before that? |
| 13:55.47 | cheesy | thank you slider :) |
| 13:56.01 | cheesy | something from asia |
| 13:56.04 | abraxa_ | oh |
| 13:56.26 | cheesy | chinese japanese or smthg like that |
| 13:57.13 | aloril | cheesy: most of it is in English (didn't understand anything about that start part, don't ever recognize who is talking) |
| 13:58.12 | cheesy | i'm in the english part now ;) |
| 13:59.39 | abraxa_ | zecke: Thanks for the input - and the RSS reader fails to compile here btw with an implicit declaration of mrss_parse_url_and_transfer_buffer |
| 13:59.42 | abraxa_ | Is this known to you? |
| 13:59.50 | ewon | has anyone ported a media player to the moko yet? |
| 14:00.14 | abraxa_ | ewon: Not yet, though I'm working on the music player |
| 14:00.21 | pH5 | mplayer :) |
| 14:02.28 | Placid | Please don't tell me the Neo will be capable of running mplayer... |
| 14:02.54 | ewon | *shrugs* |
| 14:03.02 | ewon | if a palm zire71 can play video... |
| 14:03.10 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:03.10 | ewon | and that had a shitty dragonball cpu |
| 14:03.13 | zecke | abraxa_: sure, you need a patch for libmrss |
| 14:03.49 | pH5 | Placid: sure, why not? I only really used it to play ogg vorbis files though. |
| 14:03.51 | zecke | abraxa_: this is a shortcut und I'm not yet certain I want to send this method upstream. |
| 14:03.54 | Placid | Jesus if it can use mplayer (my favourite media player), then i'm going to wet myself |
| 14:04.06 | abraxa_ | zecke: Hmm, I'm just doing the openmoko-devel-image so I was a little surprised to see it fail |
| 14:04.17 | *** part/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@rt94.highlink.ru) |
| 14:04.21 | abraxa_ | zecke: Ah okay, so is this breakage expected behavior as of now? |
| 14:04.34 | balrog-kun | Placid: mplayers run on my 60MHz 32 MB-of-ram ARM |
| 14:04.47 | zecke | abraxa_: oh, no this is not supposed to fail |
| 14:05.01 | zecke | abraxa_: the patch is in OE and in OpenMoko's fork of the meta data |
| 14:05.12 | abraxa_ | zecke: I wonder why it fails then... |
| 14:05.18 | Placid | I JUST WET MYSELF |
| 14:05.33 | Placid | I want a neo even more now |
| 14:05.45 | hena | well, mplayer isn't that heavy app, why wouldn't it? |
| 14:05.47 | abraxa_ | Placid: Don't we all ;) |
| 14:06.00 | hena | it's them some codecs that require a lot of cpu |
| 14:06.05 | zecke | abraxa_: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showbuilds.pl?tree=OpenMoko the last nighly buuld just worked fine |
| 14:06.10 | Placid | abraxa_: quite :) |
| 14:06.12 | ewon | yeah, the video will need to be encoded with care |
| 14:06.16 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Video_Player |
| 14:06.24 | ewon | can't really fire a hidef xvid at it ors and expect 30fps :) |
| 14:06.27 | SpeedEvil | overview of likely state of decoding |
| 14:06.42 | abraxa_ | zecke: Ah okay, so I guess I'll just wipe my stuff and start the build from scratch... |
| 14:06.48 | Placid | was there a decision made on the scripting language openmoko will use/install by default? |
| 14:07.01 | zecke | abraxa_: not so drastic, just svn up the OE dir and rebuild libmrss |
| 14:07.17 | SpeedEvil | 120*160 video is probably quite adequate. |
| 14:07.21 | abraxa_ | Placid: bash? I dunno, using a high-level language for scripting might be a tad slow from what I gather |
| 14:07.52 | ewon | and I thought watching porn on my 6230i was amusing... |
| 14:08.02 | abraxa_ | zecke: I thought the MokoMakefile was doing just that with every run already? |
| 14:08.13 | SpeedEvil | abraxa_: think of it as a Pentium 100. |
| 14:08.23 | abraxa_ | zecke: Well, aside from rebuilding libmrss... which I should do first then |
| 14:08.25 | Placid | abraxa_: sure. i'd like to code some perl while i'm on the train and chatting to friends via screen running irssi on a server of mine |
| 14:08.29 | drath | uhm, wasn't there a slide that said the P1+ device would have 2D/3D and MPEG4 acceleration? |
| 14:08.32 | Placid | abraxa_: you know, general geek stuff. |
| 14:08.38 | SpeedEvil | drath: perhaps. |
| 14:08.42 | ewon | you know you're getting old when your phone is more powerful than your first x86 desktop |
| 14:08.43 | SpeedEvil | It's being evaluated. |
| 14:09.03 | Placid | lol |
| 14:09.07 | Placid | indeed ewon |
| 14:09.27 | drath | ah, just saw a picture from the slide mentioning the GTA02, and thought that was already finalized |
| 14:09.33 | abraxa_ | Placid: Ah okay then, it just seems that some people expect a little too much from this phone performance-wise so I'm a little more conservative on the expectations ;x |
| 14:09.35 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:10.08 | Placid | abraxa_: i respect that. i'm sure I come across as expecting it to be a cray, but i don't mean that. |
| 14:10.20 | ewon | PocketCray(tm) |
| 14:10.25 | Placid | hehe |
| 14:10.38 | Placid | OpenCray :P |
| 14:10.43 | abraxa_ | hehe |
| 14:11.05 | ewon | you drop it, and the flourinert leaks out... |
| 14:11.12 | abraxa_ | Placid: Yeah, I understand |
| 14:11.28 | Placid | abraxa_: :) |
| 14:11.33 | Placid | nice |
| 14:11.37 | SpeedEvil | However, it's only a PIC :) |
| 14:12.47 | SpeedEvil | (it works out cheaper to use a PIC + 3 axis accelerometer and be an I2C peripheral, rather than buy a canned one. Not to mention that it's an extra 3 bits of resolution. |
| 14:13.23 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 14:13.32 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: would there be enough space on existing boards? |
| 14:13.34 | SpeedEvil | The hardware is almost very cool. |
| 14:13.39 | hena | yup |
| 14:13.59 | aloril | counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) |
| 14:13.59 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) |
| 14:14.05 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: it's a couple of very small chips. 18 pin QFN - 4mm*4mm or so |
| 14:14.43 | aloril | (few new links (one if I already pasted here) and fudging estimates based on those, probably too optimistic) |
| 14:14.44 | hena | a device with so much potential can be ruined so amazingly well |
| 14:14.44 | hena | should be in guinness book of records or something :/ |
| 14:15.32 | SpeedEvil | hena: Open PSP, with UMD-RW would be awesome. |
| 14:16.17 | hena | yup |
| 14:16.42 | hena | actually, i'd just get rid of the UMD and put something else |
| 14:16.53 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2175 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: Show talking window before callign prepare |
| 14:16.54 | happycube | these days ya might as well use SD cards |
| 14:17.08 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:17.13 | SpeedEvil | True I suppose. |
| 14:17.20 | SpeedEvil | SD cards are getting quite cheap. |
| 14:17.21 | hena | microcards are quite enough and more handly also :) |
| 14:17.30 | SpeedEvil | Was looking at 1G microSD cards yesterday. |
| 14:17.34 | hena | memsticks |
| 14:17.36 | Placid | microSD cards are too small |
| 14:17.42 | Placid | I have a 1GB for my NDS |
| 14:17.50 | SpeedEvil | IMO - they work well for 'fixed' drives. |
| 14:17.53 | ewon | UMD is cock |
| 14:18.09 | SpeedEvil | UMD - RO is. |
| 14:18.17 | hena | dunno, i'm happy with them, they just need a proper pocket or something |
| 14:18.30 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@120.Red-83-42-149.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 14:19.04 | hena | id change the umd for MMU anytime |
| 14:19.12 | SpeedEvil | MMU? |
| 14:19.23 | hena | memory management unit |
| 14:19.32 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't have one? |
| 14:19.36 | happycube | nope |
| 14:19.51 | happycube | although if it had an mmu it'd probably be harder to hack ;) |
| 14:19.53 | SpeedEvil | Odd CPU decision. |
| 14:19.57 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 14:20.22 | abraxa_ | zecke: How do you test your application(s) regarding screen estate? The header/footer eat some of it on the phone so do you run those as well or do you set the X display size to the area that your application can actually use? |
| 14:20.33 | hena | if it had that, the hardware would be completely cool |
| 14:20.53 | zecke | abraxa_: I assume it will layout just fine :) |
| 14:21.10 | zecke | abraxa_: the only thing I sometimes try is to think how it would look like on a qvga display |
| 14:21.13 | abraxa_ | zecke: So what resolution do you use for your X server? |
| 14:21.35 | zecke | abraxa_: the sizing of the column view creates a headache... |
| 14:21.45 | zecke | abraxa_: DPI wise it is just a normal widescreen monitor |
| 14:22.36 | abraxa_ | zecke: I think I should make a wiki page about this... I'm sure it'll benefit others as well to know how to build apps this way |
| 14:27.45 | lrak | ping anybody at Taiwan |
| 14:33.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2176 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (dialer-window-outgoing.c dialer-window-talking.c): More debugging |
| 14:40.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 14:50.18 | *** join/#openmoko slider (n=sebastia@e182047115.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:51.59 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03njp * r2177 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-finger-tool-box.c: Added some error checking |
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| 14:59.08 | tri | hm that sounds nice: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Calendar |
| 14:59.12 | tri | It would be great to convince Pimlico to port their great DateBK Application to OpenMoko. It has a very rich feature list. |
| 14:59.25 | abraxa_ | ...and the Braunschweig Connection joins at once :) |
| 14:59.48 | tri | :-) |
| 15:00.34 | tri | Braunschweig may only have internet a few hours every week - and no it is there ones again... |
| 15:01.20 | abraxa_ | hehe possibly |
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| 15:04.30 | alphaone | lol |
| 15:04.54 | alphaone | tri: It's more the bouncer that is problematic at times... |
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| 15:31.07 | hrw | cu all |
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| 15:49.02 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:49.14 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:49.20 | SpeedEvil | hihi |
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| 16:01.03 | LuitvD | huh? |
| 16:01.18 | *** part/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 16:01.32 | LuitvD | (that's my way of saying hi) |
| 16:03.04 | TRIsoft | hi and bye :D |
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| 16:19.26 | PBeck | hm is september a possible date for P2? |
| 16:19.57 | PBeck | i heard the interview from Michael Lauer and he mean we need 5 till 6 months after P1 |
| 16:21.00 | PBeck | November / December would be possible than |
| 16:22.12 | aloril2 | PBeck: P1+/P1.5 could be September, but I guess P2 is later (mainly software difference) |
| 16:22.49 | loufoque | do we know what's the hardware upgrade for P1.5 is? |
| 16:22.54 | loufoque | s/ is// |
| 16:22.58 | aloril2 | mainly == 'I guess there could be some minor fixes?' |
| 16:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3ee3f51c.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:23.35 | PBeck | aloril2: what is P1+ and P1.5? |
| 16:24.05 | aloril2 | GTA02v? : P1+/P1.5 and P2 |
| 16:24.09 | PBeck | ??? |
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| 16:24.42 | PBeck | GTA02 devices for developers in P1+? |
| 16:24.59 | PBeck | and for what is P1.5? |
| 16:25.05 | aloril2 | P1: GTA01Bv4: *no*, wifi, etc.: probably June for developers (not recommened for ohers) |
| 16:25.21 | aloril2 | s:oher:other: |
| 16:25.28 | PBeck | i have never heard from P1.5 |
| 16:25.45 | PBeck | i know P1 and P2 |
| 16:25.58 | aloril2 | P1+/P1.5: GTA02 for developers when its ready for mass production |
| 16:26.13 | aloril2 | P1+==P1.5 |
| 16:26.35 | PBeck | ok |
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| 16:27.01 | aloril2 | P2: GTA02 + mass market ready software which developers of course can update themself |
| 16:27.05 | PBeck | and why you call for it two names? |
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| 16:40.10 | PBeck | aloril2: ok ;) |
| 16:40.59 | robster | w/ 5 |
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| 16:53.11 | loufoque | aloril: will GTA02 have wifi? |
| 16:53.45 | loufoque | I've heard a few prototypes were showed in taiwan |
| 16:53.47 | SpeedEvil | It's been stated that it will |
| 16:54.05 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 16:54.09 | miip_ | loufoque: yes according to this -> http://www.vanille-media.de/misc/openmoko-lt2007.pdf |
| 16:56.25 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 16:57.06 | loufoque | what are Beschleuniger and Beschleunigungssensoren ? |
| 16:57.39 | MacNorthXP | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:58.16 | balrog-kun | isn't that obviouse :) |
| 16:58.26 | balrog-kun | *obvious |
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| 16:59.03 | loufoque | so Beschleuniger is acceleration? |
| 16:59.10 | miip_ | yes |
| 16:59.20 | loufoque | that means GTA02 has 3D acceleration |
| 16:59.52 | miip_ | exactly :) |
| 17:00.17 | don-o | GTA02 will have 3D accelerated graphics? ATI or NVIDIA? :) |
| 17:00.27 | *** join/#openmoko Freed (n=jecsar@mac33-2-82-225-98-209.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:00.29 | don-o | terms can be so confusing. |
| 17:01.10 | don-o | 3D accelerometers is a much better description. |
| 17:02.37 | balrog-kun | no, afaik it really means 3D graphics acceleration (apart from the accelerometer stuff) |
| 17:02.37 | loufoque | those were two distinct elements |
| 17:02.37 | guaqua | accelerator vs accelometer |
| 17:02.45 | loufoque | 2D/3D Beschleuniger |
| 17:02.50 | loufoque | Beschleunigungssensoren |
| 17:03.06 | balrog-kun | so the terms were not confused here |
| 17:03.13 | don-o | interesting. |
| 17:03.44 | guaqua | Beschleunigung = acceleration |
| 17:03.45 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 17:03.55 | guaqua | Beschleunigungssensor = acceleration sensor |
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| 17:06.26 | loufoque | that's the chip |
| 17:06.26 | loufoque | [19:02] <loufoque> 2D/3D Beschleuniger |
| 17:06.29 | loufoque | oops wrong paste |
| 17:06.35 | loufoque | http://www.smediatech.com/product3370.htm |
| 17:08.10 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A55E50.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:08.30 | SpeedEvil | Woot. Another two page meaningless datasheet. |
| 17:09.21 | orospakr | they'll need to write a Free Software DRI/Mesa/X driver for it. |
| 17:09.28 | guaqua | 1,2Mb, SpeedEvil :) |
| 17:09.45 | guaqua | err |
| 17:09.46 | guaqua | MB |
| 17:11.31 | SpeedEvil | orospakr: which of course means that it's a task only the core team can do. |
| 17:11.44 | SpeedEvil | Which will mean that there are important things that they can't do. |
| 17:11.50 | balrog-kun | unless they chose one that for some strangest reason already has a driver |
| 17:12.02 | balrog-kun | hopefully it's an open one |
| 17:12.40 | SpeedEvil | I diddn't see any mention of that the other day when someone of the core team - I forget - was asked of it. |
| 17:12.51 | SpeedEvil | maybe ro h |
| 17:15.43 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62f5f.bb.sky.com) |
| 17:18.34 | LuitvD | lolz, I guess I could have done Consumer Research at Chicago's university |
| 17:19.06 | LuitvD | ... those guys just realized consumer's choice is based on skill-based habits |
| 17:19.59 | LuitvD | and consumers see adapted habits as quality... even though those habits could be bad ones |
| 17:21.09 | LuitvD | on computers: none |
| 17:21.23 | LuitvD | that's why those people should use linux, when confronted with a pc :P |
| 17:22.16 | LuitvD | both linux' habits and windows' habits are (easily) adoptable... though switching from one to the other is the problem |
| 17:23.31 | LuitvD | that's why newcomers to smartphones should have the ability to start off on the right foot (openmoko :) ) |
| 17:28.11 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 17:39.08 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@gprs-pool-1-012.eplus-online.de) |
| 17:39.52 | woglinde | hi laforge |
| 17:41.49 | *** join/#openmoko alex-weej (n=alex@halls-129-31-82-59.hor.ic.ac.uk) |
| 17:44.09 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (i=muciipec@p54952E9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
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| 18:08.35 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2178 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (pcf50633.patch series): Add first, untested version of PCF50633 kernel driver |
| 18:08.35 | *** part/#openmoko deepank (n=deepank@59.178.49.48) |
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| 18:34.44 | pjz | PCF50633 is the PMU. cool. |
| 18:35.47 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=ncworth@c-24-21-182-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 18:36.01 | cdbot2 | * * OM Bug 596 has been created by mickey@vanille-media.de |
| 18:36.02 | cdbot2 | * * dfu transfer very slow |
| 18:36.03 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=596 |
| 18:36.16 | Vegar | the PMU in the neo? |
| 18:41.23 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[GPS_Connection_Status]] |
| 18:42.49 | pjz | Vegar: yup |
| 18:45.53 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=nncworth@c-24-21-182-25.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 18:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko noesc (n=noesc@cpe-76-172-92-85.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 18:46.29 | noesc | have all of the dev phones been shipped out? (I'm interested in developing) |
| 18:46.29 | aloril | noesc: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:51.17 | *** join/#openmoko fcarvalho (n=fcarvalh@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:56.15 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@82-45-1-115.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
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| 18:56.24 | webjames | Hello! |
| 18:57.43 | abraxa_ | 'ello webjames |
| 18:58.04 | webjames | 'ello 'ello abraxa_, any news? |
| 18:58.19 | guaqua | 'o 'l |
| 18:58.46 | abraxa_ | noesc: You won't get a phase 0 phone if you haven't already received one and the publically available phase 1 phones aren't for sale yet |
| 18:59.26 | abraxa_ | webjames: I'm making progress if that's what you mean :) |
| 18:59.28 | noesc | abraxa_: Thanks for the information. |
| 19:00.04 | webjames | abraxa_, good good :) |
| 19:01.49 | abraxa_ | noesc: So yes, you can get one as soon as they become available ;) |
| 19:01.58 | abraxa_ | We're all waiting, too, lol |
| 19:02.52 | noesc | abraxa_: I was interested in developing |
| 19:04.01 | abraxa_ | noesc: Purely software related? If so then you can already begin |
| 19:04.12 | noesc | abraxa_: redundant dialog in here is pretty pointless anyway, I already emailed the address on the site with my development background. |
| 19:04.53 | noesc | abraxa_: not purely software, I have extensive hardware / EE exp as well |
| 19:05.09 | guaqua | redundant dialog with fellow devs in an open source project |
| 19:05.14 | guaqua | am i missing something here? |
| 19:05.37 | abraxa_ | noesc: I take it you're applying for a freelancer position then? |
| 19:05.46 | noesc | guaqua: I think you misinterepreted. |
| 19:05.54 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-104-249.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:06.00 | noesc | -e* |
| 19:06.18 | noesc | abraxa_: firstly, what is your position with the project? |
| 19:06.34 | abraxa_ | I'm a hobbyist? ;) |
| 19:07.11 | noesc | abraxa_: Again then, I will wait for an official response via my email request to openmoko. :) |
| 19:07.50 | *** join/#openmoko juco (n=vickeryj@12.38.10.116) |
| 19:08.06 | abraxa_ | Welp, alrighties |
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| 19:13.12 | *** join/#openmoko penguinwhoflew (i=aaron@nts-168.154-167-216.nts-online.net) |
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| 19:21.52 | cworth | Drat. Looks like I've got 3 dead batteries and 2 phones that refuse to charge them. |
| 19:22.30 | guaqua | not very impressive |
| 19:22.57 | zecke | cworth: are you sure? mine was able to get charged |
| 19:23.36 | zecke | or let me rephrase I have seen a huge improvement |
| 19:25.13 | cworth | zecke: Well, I hadn't touched the new phone in a while, (but it had been connected by USB to my laptop), and I found it yesterday with its original shipped battery dead. |
| 19:25.49 | cworth | So I popped in the Nokia battery I had purchased when I had charging problems with the original unit, booted and left it plugged in. This morning that battery's dead too. |
| 19:25.58 | zecke | unfortunate |
| 19:26.48 | balrog-kun | mine didn't have any original battery, but the nokia one charges pretty well |
| 19:27.57 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2179 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (series smedia-glamo.patch): Add way incomplete and totally untested Smedia Glamo driver base for GTA02 |
| 19:28.03 | *** join/#openmoko KeyserSoze (n=mgazic@63.138.13.146) |
| 19:29.22 | cworth | Hmmm... I'm not getting much action on the power button---I wonder if it's stuck down. |
| 19:30.43 | *** part/#openmoko chreeka7 (n=b@74.196.177.211) |
| 19:30.58 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 19:37.15 | ynezz | I don't have neo, but if I remember it correctly this was uboot related problem, but fixed already... |
| 19:39.42 | cworth | ynezz: Yeah, that was my understanding as well. |
| 19:40.11 | cworth | I could have verified/fixed uboot if I had left one of my batteries alive... |
| 19:41.11 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2180 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/atcmd.c: |
| 19:41.11 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Ignore 1:1 echos of commands sent. This is mainly to work around modems that |
| 19:41.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: are initially in 'E1' state, i.e. have echo enabled. This means that our first |
| 19:41.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: ATE0V1 command will get echoed before we receive OK. (Philipp Zabel) |
| 19:41.15 | cworth | Too bad the device doesn't have a DC power input to operate without a battery... |
| 19:41.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2181 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-today_svn.bb: |
| 19:41.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * Copy openmoko-today again to our overlay and add the libstartup-notification |
| 19:41.48 | CIA-24 | openmoko: dependency |
| 19:43.29 | ynezz | the steps were described, search mailing list archives |
| 19:43.54 | cworth | ynezz: Yeah, but I'm stuck now with only dead batteries. |
| 19:44.37 | ynezz | there is a nokia workaround |
| 19:45.39 | zecke | LaF0rge: hey, haskell is not obscure (just watching this video on google) :) |
| 19:45.41 | stefan_schmidt | cworth: Just put the battery in the neo, plug the usb cable directly on the pc and wait two ours. I can be that it take some time |
| 19:46.01 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: You find one language obscure, right? ;) |
| 19:46.26 | cworth | stefan_schmidt: OK, will report back in two hours. |
| 19:46.52 | pjz | J is pretty obscure |
| 19:47.13 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: btw, I just added the startup-notification dep in our openmoko-today recipe. Like to add this to oe, too? Or wait for the big sync? |
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| 20:00.48 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I will look into it |
| 20:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko pdinoto (n=pdinoto@host203.190-31-75.telecom.net.ar) |
| 20:06.14 | cworth | Ooh... it doesn't actually fit per se... but if I hold it at the right angle I can get the FIC battery to make contact with an n770, (which also claims to be charging it). |
| 20:09.01 | cworth | Yeah, after a short time of that the Neo is booting. Cool. |
| 20:16.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2182 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 20:16.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-06 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 20:16.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/buttonactions.h: |
| 20:16.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/mokodesktop.c: |
| 20:16.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/mokodesktop.h: |
| 20:16.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/stylusmenu.h: |
| 20:16.04 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Add proper license header |
| 20:21.37 | cworth | stefan_schmidt: OK, that device does seem to be charging, and it's booted now. |
| 20:21.48 | cworth | So th only mystery left is why it discharged in the first place. I'll just have to keep an eye on things and see what happens |
| 20:24.13 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host81-151-185-209.range81-151.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:24.20 | stefan_schmidt | cworth: It discharges due to broken hardware. The now produced P1 should fix that all. |
| 20:24.21 | balrog-kun | it's enough that either pcf50606 or the udc driver doesn't load on boot for whatever reason for fast-charge mode to not be used |
| 20:24.49 | cworth | stefan_schmidt: So the second phone I was sent didn't have the fix? |
| 20:25.12 | stefan_schmidt | cworth: It has one, but miss one other :) |
| 20:25.21 | cworth | stefan_schmidt: Ah, I see. Thanks. |
| 20:25.37 | cworth | stefan_schmidt: So if that's just expected behavior then I won't worry about it. |
| 20:26.33 | cworth | Now to figure out why I'm not getting a USB console to be able to flash uboot on the old device. |
| 20:26.45 | stefan_schmidt | cworth: Best is to have a new uboot, to be sure don't stuck in the reboot loop, and have it connected to usb during development |
| 20:27.26 | stefan_schmidt | cworth: You don't need a usb console just use dfu |
| 20:27.39 | cworth | Ah, well I just did get to a USB console. ;-) |
| 20:28.17 | cworth | dfu-util is what? an i386 linux binary? |
| 20:28.28 | woglinde | ?1? |
| 20:28.51 | woglinde | its the opensource flasher for the neo |
| 20:28.52 | cworth | Looks like it. |
| 20:29.35 | cworth | woglinde: Right. I'm just talking about the recipe here: |
| 20:29.36 | cworth | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Flashing_openmoko |
| 20:29.42 | balrog-kun | dfu-util is cross-platform |
| 20:29.44 | cworth | That points to a binary here: |
| 20:29.52 | cworth | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/dfu-util |
| 20:29.56 | cworth | Without really saying what it is. |
| 20:30.11 | zecke | OT: Is there anyway to intercept gdk_window_move? |
| 20:30.35 | SpeedEvil | Is there a way to poll the wiki for recent changes cheaper than just loading the special:recentchanges page? |
| 20:30.48 | hrw | SpeedEvil: RSS for it |
| 20:31.21 | SpeedEvil | Ah - somehow I missed that. |
| 20:31.44 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 20:31.47 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2183 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta02-core.patch series): baseic (untested) GTA02 machine support |
| 20:33.08 | zecke | cworth: but you know what it is? DFU is the USB specification for flashing firmware |
| 20:34.05 | cworth | zecke: Sure. I'm just saying that if I had been trying these instructions from my powerpc linux box I would have gotten stuck. |
| 20:34.31 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 20:34.33 | zecke | cworth: hehe |
| 20:35.47 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: btw: is projects.openmoko.org supposed to work? |
| 20:39.45 | stefan_schmidt | cworth: Just fix the wiki that it is a i386 precompiled binary and add a link to the source in our svn |
| 20:40.00 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: database seems to be fixed, why? |
| 20:40.14 | cworth | stefan_schmidt: Sure, will do. |
| 20:40.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[System_Info]] [[Talk:Wish_List]] |
| 20:41.12 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: I think I tried to check in my bindings some weeks ago and failed and I wondered if this is the usual neo incompabilities or a general failure |
| 20:42.10 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: hmm, we now have a admin looking at it. Please try it again and fill a bug if it does not work |
| 20:55.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2184 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-startup/ (ChangeLog configure.ac): |
| 20:55.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-06 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 20:55.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 20:55.16 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Fix typo |
| 20:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko mnmn (n=chatzill@213.148.30.66) |
| 21:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko jbewley (n=jbewley@88-110-2-181.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:02.05 | jbewley | anyone have any idea when this will be available in the UK??? |
| 21:02.05 | aloril | jbewley: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:03.34 | happycube | !counter |
| 21:05.55 | jbewley | anyone?? |
| 21:07.00 | Freed | jbewley: lookat topic |
| 21:07.01 | woglinde | jbewley will you developing or just phoning? |
| 21:07.04 | so_solid_moo | jbewley: when they're available, you'll be able to buy them from anywhere |
| 21:08.11 | jbewley | thanks so_solid_moo thats great but my question was when |
| 21:08.31 | hads | Patience |
| 21:08.31 | jbewley | i'll be developing |
| 21:08.43 | woglinde | maybee next week |
| 21:08.46 | woglinde | than |
| 21:15.38 | balrog-kun | next week is quite unreal |
| 21:17.43 | woglinde | balrog why? |
| 21:18.55 | balrog-kun | because it was said the the first QA run would start in the second part of june (i don't remember exactly) |
| 21:19.51 | balrog-kun | for me it sounds like still quite far from shipping |
| 21:20.35 | ynezz | so let's wait till end of july ;) |
| 21:20.47 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (i=muciipec@p54954257.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:20.55 | balrog-kun | well.. |
| 21:21.01 | balrog-kun | it's not like we have any other choice :) |
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| 21:24.57 | *** join/#openmoko dietricha (n=dietrich@c-67-166-84-16.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
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| 21:30.55 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: Harald and Mickey will do QA in .tw next week |
| 21:32.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2185 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (ChangeLog configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/stylusmenu.c): |
| 21:32.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-06-06 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 21:32.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * configure.ac: |
| 21:32.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: |
| 21:32.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/stylusmenu.c: |
| 21:32.57 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (moko_stylus_menu_activate_item): |
| 21:33.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Add launcher startup notification support. Close bug #575 |
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| 22:07.56 | CoreDump|home | hi |
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| 22:33.04 | webjames | night |
| 22:34.50 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 22:40.56 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]] [[Neo1973]] [[Flashing_openmoko]] [[Dfu-util]] [[System_Info]] |
| 22:44.44 | DukeOfURL | counter |
| 22:44.45 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 40%) P1: 6 days 13:15:15 (6.552±6.0 days) (1405;225) |
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| 23:31.56 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: UI ideas/questions or can we animate things as smooth as |
| 23:34.41 | *** join/#openmoko ar2 (i=familia@201.244.109.225) |
| 23:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko ExplodingLemur (i=rduke@chiba.halibut.com) |
| 23:41.22 | ExplodingLemur | Question regarding MokoMakefile: I'm trying to build just to play around a bit in Qemu (curious about the feel of the UI), I've downloaded the makefile and installed the appropriate dependencies. Doing a make setup now, and it's taking a very, very long time to grab "certs" and "revs" from monotone.openembedded.org. Is this normal? |
| 23:42.05 | abraxa_ | I'm not sure make setup is needed for qemu alone |
| 23:42.08 | abraxa_ | Doing a "make qemu" might already suffice |
| 23:42.27 | ExplodingLemur | ok, I'll abort this and give that a shot. |
| 23:42.45 | abraxa_ | Yeah, monotone will continue where it left off if it should indeed be necessary |
| 23:43.38 | ExplodingLemur | Ok. Assuming I know nothing of OpenMoko's build process (which would be a valid assumption ;) ) what role does monotone play? |
| 23:44.10 | ExplodingLemur | version control app for the Neo1973 CPU tools/libraries? |
| 23:44.30 | abraxa_ | monotone is the repository system OpenEmbedded uses - OpenMoko is based on OpenEmbedded so it relies on monotone to manage the local copy of the OE repo |
| 23:47.27 | ExplodingLemur | Gotcha. Thanks! |
| 23:47.57 | ExplodingLemur | hmm. make qemu launched back into monotone...guess it needs it after all. Oh well, it'll finish...someday... :) |
| 23:55.54 | rwhitby | hmm "make qemu" shouldn't require monotone - let me look into that |
| 23:56.12 | rwhitby | ah, it's due to stamps/patches |