| 00:02.04 | SpeedEvil | Now this might be handy for your neo. http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.3060 |
| 00:02.11 | SpeedEvil | Especially + hub |
| 00:04.03 | SuN | Now that is an awesome device. |
| 00:04.14 | SuN | Would have been cool if it included a hub though. |
| 00:04.18 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 00:04.31 | mjr | yep, I've been thinking of getting a device like that |
| 00:04.31 | SpeedEvil | Some duct tape can fix that though. |
| 00:05.01 | mjr | duct tape and a three-way USB cable with power coming from that and data coming from Neo |
| 00:05.50 | balrog-kun | enough duct tape will fix anything |
| 00:15.33 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 00:16.15 | mjr | an solar charging battery, with usb interfaces in/out as well |
| 00:16.23 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I missed that |
| 00:16.45 | mjr | though dealextreme's one isn't overly tempting yet: http://dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.2575 |
| 00:16.58 | mjr | have seen others around somewhere |
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| 00:22.35 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2090 10/trunk/oe/packages/settings-daemon/settings-daemon_svn.bb: |
| 00:22.35 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * settings-daemon recipe does not set PV and so get only build once even if |
| 00:22.35 | CIA-23 | openmoko: upstream changes code. Also some depends and cosmetic changes. Patch from |
| 00:22.35 | CIA-23 | openmoko: Marcin Juszkiewicz <openmoko@hrw.one.pl>. This close #566 |
| 00:22.36 | mjr | this was a bit more flexible if larger: http://www.cetsolar.com/sc150.htm |
| 00:22.39 | mjr | though also more cell area |
| 00:23.16 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. If the ratings of the DX one were the truth, it's a 0.5W solar cell or so.l |
| 00:34.34 | mjr | and then there's the serious and huge one: http://www.amazon.com/Brunton-Solarport-Foldable-Charger-Battery/dp/B0007U9CZ2#moreAboutThisProduct |
| 00:35.20 | mjr | though that doesn't even apparently have internal battery |
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| 00:35.48 | mjr | internal is essential, solar charging is just a bonus ;) |
| 00:38.18 | Vegar | can't you use that one to charge the USB thing that did have a battery? |
| 00:38.28 | mjr | hehe |
| 00:38.29 | mjr | yes |
| 00:39.43 | mjr | I'll probably buy some small one though, even if it doesn't get power that fast. Yes, I'm going be in sunny places during the summer. |
| 00:40.09 | Vegar | during the winter, I don't see the sun at all |
| 00:40.25 | Vegar | so solar charging is just a waste of money |
| 00:41.05 | mjr | yeah it isn't gonna be very useful year-around here either |
| 00:41.30 | mjr | 's why one wants it to double as simply an extra battery |
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| 00:57.43 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Specs and Docs |
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| 02:32.43 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/es]] |
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| 04:32.43 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction/es]] |
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| 06:42.15 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:05.37 | Rakshasa | Morning |
| 07:10.10 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@147.162.137.9) |
| 07:17.07 | Rakshasa | Darn. If the p1+ has a gpu, I've gotta wait for it too. =( After all I am a graphics and game programmer at heart. |
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| 07:29.09 | antenagora | counter |
| 07:29.10 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 02:15:36 (2.094 +-2.1 days) (1301;215) |
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| 08:24.16 | PBeck | hi :D |
| 08:32.22 | LuitvD | hi |
| 08:32.25 | LuitvD | counter |
| 08:32.25 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 2 days 01:43:58 (2.072 +-2.1 days) (1302;215) |
| 08:32.46 | LuitvD | meh, 8 hours ago it was 2 days and 6 hours |
| 08:37.04 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@ppp-82-135-81-239.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 08:37.12 | CM | And FIC is as quiet as always.. :( |
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| 08:43.14 | LuitvD | CM: alals |
| 08:43.17 | LuitvD | -l |
| 08:43.46 | LuitvD | CM: though Sean is pretty helpful on the mailing lists lately |
| 08:44.09 | CM | Yes, I've nocticed the increase in mails from him :) |
| 08:44.22 | CM | Just hope to hear something about the production run.. |
| 08:44.46 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 08:45.15 | ozamosi | Well.. If he has time to write emails, he probably doesn't have anything really nasty to fix at the moment. |
| 08:47.23 | *** join/#openmoko vrt (n=vrt@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 08:49.45 | CM | He always seem to say that he wants to wait with any real anouncement until he has something finished or complete. At least that's what the last announce mail said.. |
| 08:53.10 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 08:53.44 | LuitvD | he told us he wanted to keep his (public) mouth shut, to avoid having to talk about delays |
| 08:54.23 | LuitvD | well, now there's still a delay, but this time he doesn't talk about it :P |
| 08:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@pd956a57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:54.49 | CM | Hehe.. I think that's worse than just saying what's going on |
| 08:55.05 | LuitvD | aloril's counter actually is quite optimistic... in my opinion |
| 08:55.24 | CM | It's always been optimistic ;) |
| 08:55.32 | LuitvD | true |
| 08:58.05 | Rakshasa | It's about time to add another two weeks. |
| 08:58.34 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 08:58.38 | aloril | well.. it has different counters to eternity, only first one is shown though ;-) |
| 08:58.46 | ewon | we should probably change the topic to "it'll be ready when it's ready, you god-damned hippies!", or something to that effect |
| 08:58.57 | aloril | (here that is, others are at webpage and not really as counters) |
| 08:59.27 | Rakshasa | No-one reads the topic anyway, so what's the use? |
| 08:59.53 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@adsl-d124.84-47-51.t-com.sk) |
| 09:00.04 | Rakshasa | They'll all just ask wether it's ready, or where they con order one. |
| 09:00.20 | Rakshasa | s/con/can/ |
| 09:01.01 | ewon | it that automagic? |
| 09:01.05 | ewon | foobar |
| 09:01.09 | ewon | s/bar/foo/ |
| 09:01.12 | ewon | nice |
| 09:01.22 | CM | apt: botsnack :) |
| 09:01.22 | apt | :), CM |
| 09:01.30 | ewon | is apt a blootbot? |
| 09:01.40 | CM | apt: What are you? |
| 09:01.52 | apt | I am a blootbot. For more info see <blootbot> |
| 09:01.56 | ewon | bingo |
| 09:05.41 | LuitvD | :P |
| 09:07.04 | LuitvD | ewon: you could have seen that in his /whois |
| 09:08.31 | aloril | still optimistic, but.. in theory it could happen quite fast I think: |
| 09:08.33 | aloril | counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) |
| 09:08.34 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) |
| 09:09.18 | LuitvD | aloril: it's getting less likely? why? |
| 09:09.29 | LuitvD | why that 5% less now? |
| 09:09.34 | aloril | well.. no news -> maybe problems? |
| 09:10.03 | aloril | been reducing by 5% everytime I have reduced ;-) |
| 09:10.19 | aloril | though I guess will reduce faster in next 4 days |
| 09:10.20 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 09:10.53 | buz | i think its somewhat to be all gung hoo about being open and htings and then just shut up about the delays |
| 09:11.36 | aloril | if they produce it today and then takes day or few for quality test: ordering could still be in May ;-) |
| 09:12.12 | LuitvD | buz: well, knowing WHY there is a delay won't make us shut up, but will comfort us a bit, yes |
| 09:12.23 | LuitvD | buz: I prefer openness too... |
| 09:12.59 | *** join/#openmoko zipher (n=erik@81-229-150-38-o1124.telia.com) |
| 09:13.02 | buz | and creating patches for new devices without telling people what it is creates rumors |
| 09:13.10 | buz | some might say rumors are good, but i doubt it |
| 09:13.31 | LuitvD | aloril: why would you need 'a few' days for quality test? you can do a 100% test on 50 devices in a day... |
| 09:13.40 | LuitvD | (with the right equipment) |
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| 09:14.03 | LuitvD | buz: nah, this HXD8 think is quite nicely done... acutally |
| 09:14.05 | aloril | LuitvD: umm.. if they have 2000 devices, then that is a bit slow ;-) |
| 09:14.13 | LuitvD | s/acutally/actually/ |
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| 09:14.32 | CM | I also wonder what't to secret about how the first production run is going, and if it's even started at all |
| 09:14.54 | LuitvD | aloril: yes, but with a production line that has continuous quality/yield, you don't have to test 100% on every single device |
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| 09:15.33 | LuitvD | aloril: you can do LCD, NAND, RAM test on everything and 100% test on 1 in 200 devices, for example |
| 09:15.39 | aloril | maybe good assumption is that is has not started or it going today, ie.. wonder if we could assume there would be some news after successful run |
| 09:15.58 | aloril | LuitvD: OK |
| 09:16.33 | CM | aloril: Probably. Maybe they're wating to be able to say that they've actually produced some phones |
| 09:16.42 | LuitvD | seen quite some nice things last wednesday, on the Electronics and Automation exposition :P |
| 09:17.14 | LuitvD | quite an amount of machines that would be great for quality control in production runs |
| 09:17.53 | buz | fic probably has those you know |
| 09:17.59 | buz | testing mainboards by hand would kinda suck |
| 09:19.12 | LuitvD | buz: ever seen a flying probe? |
| 09:19.14 | LuitvD | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:19.16 | ewon | I remember seeing a tv show about mobo manufacturing |
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| 09:19.23 | ewon | interesting method of soldering stuff to the boards |
| 09:19.36 | LuitvD | ewon: which of the 20 methods? :P |
| 09:19.37 | ewon | they literally have a standing wave of solder that they slosh the undersides of the board with |
| 09:19.38 | buz | LuitvD: i have different concepts of that in my head |
| 09:19.45 | buz | wave soldering then |
| 09:19.51 | ewon | impressive stuff |
| 09:19.54 | LuitvD | ewon: oh yeah, seen those machines last week too |
| 09:20.03 | LuitvD | ewon: there are nicer machines in production lines |
| 09:20.07 | ewon | my instinct would tell me it would make a gigantic mess, but it actually works |
| 09:20.20 | LuitvD | buz: http://youtube.com/watch?v=-_c1zd-LGdQ |
| 09:20.33 | LuitvD | those machines probe 100+ connections per second |
| 09:20.38 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:20.40 | buz | yeah seen those on tv |
| 09:21.09 | LuitvD | (prototyper) |
| 09:21.29 | ewon | s/decv/dev/ |
| 09:21.31 | LuitvD | buz: I'm telling you, in real life, those things are even more amazing :P |
| 09:21.57 | buz | thats a comparably small one i think |
| 09:22.48 | LuitvD | hehehe |
| 09:23.22 | buz | ewon: google for lina ;9 |
| 09:23.38 | buz | maybe lina vm or something like that |
| 09:23.57 | buz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS6279947776.html |
| 09:23.58 | ewon | found it |
| 09:24.01 | ewon | christ on a bike |
| 09:24.15 | buz | not entirely sure htf this is supposed to look native though |
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| 09:24.39 | LuitvD | lina is great :P |
| 09:24.43 | buz | then again |
| 09:24.49 | buz | simply using qt might be easier |
| 09:25.21 | ewon | hah, qt |
| 09:25.41 | ewon | "use us, but your first born child belongs to us if you even think about selling anything" |
| 09:25.56 | buz | i dont think its that expensive really |
| 09:26.13 | buz | if you really want to do cross platform stuff, its dirt cheap |
| 09:26.34 | buz | and unlike swing, it actually works |
| 09:27.54 | ewon | we looked at using QT in my last job |
| 09:28.00 | ewon | we ended up doing the GUI in Java |
| 09:28.03 | ewon | oh, the pain |
| 09:28.40 | buz | i had to do a gui in java once |
| 09:30.00 | buz | painful is very much understating it |
| 09:30.00 | ewon | a bastard marriage twixt c, c++, inline asm (oh yes), and some java for the gui, written by someone who has never done java before. absolutely positioned GUI objects! yes! |
| 09:30.00 | CM | Hehe |
| 09:30.01 | ewon | "but it looks ok on my workstation" |
| 09:31.30 | ewon | "yes, but the indians on 800x600 can't even see the OK and Cancel buttons" |
| 09:31.30 | ewon | "oh" |
| 09:31.31 | ewon | "can we get them to increase their resolution?" |
| 09:31.47 | LuitvD | lol |
| 09:31.59 | guaqua | "the right way (tm)" |
| 09:32.09 | buz | well using 800x600 should be illegal |
| 09:32.30 | guaqua | yeah, we gotta skip 800x600 on the next neo |
| 09:32.31 | buz | especially for the "but otherwise the fonts are too small" reason |
| 09:32.37 | guaqua | cos it should be illegal |
| 09:32.42 | buz | on a desktop |
| 09:32.47 | ewon | lol |
| 09:33.09 | ewon | that quote would probably have got me sent to "sensitivity training" in my last job |
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| 09:33.12 | guaqua | buz: here we get to the fact that there is no default platform anymore |
| 09:33.13 | buz | some would say that's actually promoting java |
| 09:33.35 | buz | there's actually a 7" lcd with 1920x1080 from samsung |
| 09:33.51 | Ganneff | nono, not 7", thats too small :) |
| 09:33.52 | LuitvD | buz: waah, how many DPI is that? |
| 09:34.04 | kiney | counter |
| 09:34.04 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 2 days 01:13:09 (2.051 +-2.1 days) (1303;215) |
| 09:34.09 | buz | dunno |
| 09:34.17 | buz | i think its main use is for lcd projectors |
| 09:34.21 | buz | to do 1080p |
| 09:34.22 | Rakshasa | Ganneff: a phone with a projector and a backbag for the whitescreen? |
| 09:34.39 | LuitvD | ewon: it's stupid that motorola makes linux phones and forces software devs to make programs using j2me :P |
| 09:34.55 | buz | moto is stupid. fullstop |
| 09:35.07 | LuitvD | their hardware is superb |
| 09:35.10 | ewon | LuitvD: my primary reason for wanting a moko is so I can just write apps in common or garden C, as God intended |
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| 09:35.50 | LuitvD | ewon: yeah, that's why I want moko on a moto :P |
| 09:35.53 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 09:35.57 | ewon | heh :) |
| 09:36.07 | LuitvD | C programming, and a very nice device |
| 09:36.12 | ewon | I like my Nokia 6230i, but I can't bring myself to write for j2me |
| 09:36.30 | LuitvD | ewon: then just don't :P it's better this way |
| 09:36.31 | buz | no wlan on moto |
| 09:36.35 | ewon | i tried once, and it took me a whole day just to get the dev environment operational |
| 09:36.37 | LuitvD | buz: so what? :P |
| 09:36.50 | buz | 6230i has a totally broken j2me implementation anyway |
| 09:36.54 | LuitvD | ewon: and the day after to catch breath? |
| 09:37.23 | LuitvD | :P |
| 09:37.47 | ewon | the day after to rm -rf the entire thing and go back to enjoying unemployment |
| 09:37.48 | hrw | morning |
| 09:37.53 | LuitvD | I actually do wonder what Java FX is like... but somehow I don't think I'll ever try |
| 09:38.09 | ewon | we had a graphics module back in college.. taught in Java3D |
| 09:38.10 | ewon | madness |
| 09:38.25 | LuitvD | madness? |
| 09:38.32 | LuitvD | this is JAVA :P |
| 09:38.35 | ewon | what freaking use is java3D? |
| 09:38.42 | ewon | I had to go and learn openGL on my own |
| 09:38.46 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 09:38.51 | LuitvD | as if that's hard... |
| 09:38.58 | LuitvD | GL is 'normal' ... |
| 09:39.12 | ewon | the lecturer's reasoning for teaching java3D was that some of the year would find it easier than coding in C |
| 09:39.25 | ewon | imho, such mouth-breathing retards don't deserve to pass |
| 09:39.52 | ewon | "hands up who prefers Java to C" |
| 09:39.54 | ewon | "get out" |
| 09:40.00 | LuitvD | XD |
| 09:40.27 | mmp | ewon: don't be that radical; every language has its pros, even java... |
| 09:40.47 | mmp | although /me can't remember any right now:) |
| 09:41.00 | ewon | mmp: yes, but people who cannot grasp the concept of a pointer don't deserve a comp sci degree |
| 09:41.30 | mmp | ewon: just classic "javistic" argument - pointers tend to be source of hard-to-find errors... . |
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| 09:41.47 | ewon | they're also one of C's main strong-points |
| 09:42.05 | ewon | and they're only hard-to-find without a decent memory debugger |
| 09:42.17 | LuitvD | damn, I'm glad I'm only 17 :P |
| 09:42.21 | mmp | yes. It depends whether you put the sword to the hands of Jack the Ripper or king Arthur :) |
| 09:42.41 | LuitvD | lol |
| 09:42.45 | ewon | granted, badly written C is a true horror to behold, but well-written C is... at one with the universe |
| 09:43.10 | LuitvD | ewon: baldy written anything is horror to dig into |
| 09:43.12 | buz | with 95% of the coders out there, i rather have them write java than c |
| 09:43.14 | buz | much rather |
| 09:43.22 | ewon | buz: this is sadly true |
| 09:43.43 | LuitvD | maybe lina can change that... |
| 09:43.46 | ewon | I tend to write better C than I do Java, as with Java I don't have to be careful |
| 09:43.58 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 09:44.01 | ewon | I just write any old tat, and let the java interpreter wipe my arse for me |
| 09:44.24 | LuitvD | damn, I'm glad I never learned java yet :) |
| 09:45.00 | Rakshasa | I'm glad I've allready almost forgotten all the java I've ever learned. |
| 09:45.13 | mmp | now |
| 09:45.16 | CM | Garbage collection rocks. |
| 09:45.46 | CM | Makes you lazy, I know, but it's quick and easy |
| 09:47.17 | ewon | mmp: go stand in the corner |
| 09:47.37 | buz | i actually like java syntax |
| 09:47.39 | Rakshasa | catch (IrcException ie) { cerr << "ie has bugs. Don't throw it"; } |
| 09:47.39 | mmp | :) |
| 09:47.46 | buz | its just sun's apis that are braindead |
| 09:48.06 | CM | ewon: Well, I'm actually writing some VBA now so I should just leave the whole planet :P |
| 09:48.27 | buz | vba is possible the worst language i ever came across |
| 09:48.35 | buz | causes physical pain |
| 09:48.36 | mmp | ewon: not mentioning that my early programs were written in ATARI BASIC :) |
| 09:49.07 | CM | buz: It's second to APL and slightly worse than VHDL I think ;) |
| 09:49.12 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 09:49.40 | Rakshasa | And first time I ever wrote code for commondore 64 was 2004. =P |
| 09:51.12 | *** join/#openmoko bh1 (n=bh1@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:51.48 | ewon | I remember we had work placement back in the middle of the degree |
| 09:51.59 | ewon | I was put in this publishing house |
| 09:52.06 | ewon | that processed XML in VBA |
| 09:52.20 | LuitvD | eek |
| 09:52.43 | ewon | I rewrote this 1000line VBA monstrosity in around 50 lines of perl |
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| 09:58.28 | buz | iiik perl |
| 09:58.46 | ewon | it beats freakin VBA |
| 09:58.56 | ewon | and well-commented, it's quite maintainable |
| 09:58.57 | buz | yeah |
| 10:00.35 | Rakshasa | ewon: But you've got to be a bit masochist to actually code perl. I've done a few scripts... I've also hit my fist to trees until they bleed a few times... |
| 10:00.56 | buz | perls syntax is about as bad as it gets |
| 10:01.19 | buz | htf thought it was a good idea to have variables like ä_ |
| 10:01.22 | buz | uhm $_ |
| 10:01.23 | ewon | I like perl... |
| 10:01.46 | ewon | I use it for random stuff that needs to be written quick and doesn't require lightning execution speed |
| 10:02.11 | ewon | ooperl is worse than paedophiles though |
| 10:03.07 | buz | 1gb of ram for 30eur or 2gb for 90eur |
| 10:03.09 | buz | mhh |
| 10:03.19 | buz | what kind of pricing is that, anyway |
| 10:04.24 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg__ (n=thomasg@p57AFFF68.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:06.57 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44b1fc.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 10:07.30 | Rakshasa | buz: It's for getting rich by selling memory to the random idiot with a media pc which has one memory slot and vista pre-installed. All the others can get by with 1gbs... |
| 10:07.58 | ewon | hahaaa, vista |
| 10:07.58 | buz | actually, i need 2GB in my machine, at least |
| 10:07.58 | ewon | yeah, but you have >1 slot I presume |
| 10:08.03 | buz | i'm often running two vm on my thinkpad |
| 10:08.07 | buz | 1G of ram just doesnt cut it |
| 10:08.09 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@achn-4db497bd.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 10:10.02 | rd_ | counter |
| 10:10.03 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 2 days 00:55:10 (2.038 +-2.0 days) (1304;216) |
| 10:17.35 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-125-193-181.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
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| 10:29.13 | MetaBookfoziS | p1+ is the last version of neo1973 uh? SO is there hw changing between p2 and p1+(070630)? |
| 10:29.51 | hrw | MetaBookfoziS: phase0 devs got gta01bv3 in phase0, then in phase1 they got gta01bv4 |
| 10:30.02 | hrw | so called p1+/p2 device is gta02 |
| 10:30.29 | hrw | how much changes will be before p1+ and p2? I think that mostly small fixes |
| 10:31.03 | MetaBookfoziS | i just asking because if i order that after p1+ came out, what happens if after that the hw changed? |
| 10:31.03 | MetaBookfoziS | i need to buy again? |
| 10:31.47 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-60-231-230-108.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 10:32.10 | hrw | no idea |
| 10:32.17 | MetaBookfoziS | :/ |
| 10:33.45 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Tia1982]] [[Translation]] [[Neo1973]] |
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| 10:44.17 | MetaBookfoziS | anybody? |
| 10:45.07 | aloril | MetaBookfoziS: I think we will know more once P1 becomes available for ordering |
| 10:47.31 | Elrond | I thought, GTA02 would be the next year thingy? |
| 10:47.49 | Elrond | I would have guessed for GTA01BWv01 for thw wifi version? |
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| 11:08.54 | kiney | counter |
| 11:08.54 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: 2 days 00:25:44 (2.018 +-2.0 days) (1305;216) |
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| 11:33.50 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 11:34.08 | PBeck | re |
| 11:37.24 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@5ac62f8c.bb.sky.com) |
| 11:45.53 | Elrond | Hi PBeck |
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| 12:08.45 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@222.94.61.126) |
| 12:08.53 | jackey | hey guys |
| 12:09.05 | LuitvD | hello |
| 12:09.10 | jackey | finally, I got a Neo1973 |
| 12:09.38 | CM | Lucky you :) |
| 12:09.43 | jackey | Hello LuitvD |
| 12:09.47 | jackey | thx |
| 12:10.03 | jackey | it has wifi, bluetooth and GSM |
| 12:10.10 | buz | wtf? |
| 12:10.16 | CoreDump|home | !slap jackey |
| 12:10.21 | CM | Hehe |
| 12:10.35 | SpeedEvil | wifi? |
| 12:10.36 | aloril | P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K): http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000012.html http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) |
| 12:10.45 | LuitvD | jackey: how did you get wifi? |
| 12:10.46 | buz | lol |
| 12:10.48 | LuitvD | usb? |
| 12:11.01 | SpeedEvil | I've got a neo, and it's got wifi, bluetooth, GSM, FPGA, and a pony! |
| 12:11.12 | jackey | i was told by my engineer, it has a wifi |
| 12:11.23 | jackey | did not check the detail, may be not. |
| 12:11.28 | SpeedEvil | Doubtfull. |
| 12:11.31 | CM | lspci? :) |
| 12:12.09 | jackey | yes, usb |
| 12:12.15 | SpeedEvil | Or if so, you're the first person to report such, and the prevailing opinion is that it's going to be months. |
| 12:12.32 | jackey | quite |
| 12:12.35 | buz | maybe thats is a prototype GTA02? |
| 12:12.43 | SpeedEvil | The thing connected via USB is the bluetooth module. |
| 12:12.53 | jackey | i just received it couple days ago |
| 12:12.56 | SpeedEvil | The thing connected via a grey wire is a GPS antenna. |
| 12:13.23 | SpeedEvil | If this is the same version that everyone else has. |
| 12:13.45 | jackey | maybe i should take some pictures |
| 12:13.49 | buz | look for a chip that says atheros on it |
| 12:14.04 | CM | Or just at the sticker in the back |
| 12:14.06 | jackey | there is a little spot for antenna on the side of the phone |
| 12:14.12 | buz | yeah thats for gsm |
| 12:14.48 | jackey | I am here to ask questions |
| 12:14.58 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 12:15.01 | LuitvD | well ask them then XD |
| 12:15.10 | jackey | I only have a USB power charger and the Neo |
| 12:15.22 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 may be of use jackey. |
| 12:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg_gpm (n=thomasg@p57AFF7CA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko Bish (n=arne@pD9E54C42.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:17.16 | Bish | woohoo the gpu news are great ! |
| 12:17.19 | hrw | jackey: boot it and look into /proc/cpuinfo |
| 12:17.29 | PBeck | bollywood auf rtl2 :D |
| 12:17.36 | PBeck | upps wrong channel ;) |
| 12:17.50 | Bish | :P bollywood & rtl2 suck |
| 12:18.00 | CoreDump|home | tv in general sucks |
| 12:18.02 | hrw | german lang suxx |
| 12:18.10 | Bish | xD |
| 12:18.17 | buz | dubbed tv sucks especially bad |
| 12:18.17 | hrw | or rather germanlangsuxx |
| 12:18.19 | PBeck | hrw: hrhr ;) that says a german, right? :P |
| 12:18.21 | CoreDump|home | Bish: what GPU news? |
| 12:18.33 | hrw | PBeck: nein |
| 12:18.38 | buz | http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/post/jan/2007-05-27/next-neo1973-revision-may-use-smedia-glamo3362-gpu |
| 12:18.39 | PBeck | rofl |
| 12:18.42 | buz | those |
| 12:18.42 | CoreDump|home | no, the german says polish sucks =) |
| 12:18.44 | SpeedEvil | I'm not in favour of a GPU, unless it uses no power. |
| 12:19.02 | Bish | öhm: May use the SMedia Glamo3362 GPU [15] |
| 12:19.17 | Bish | im half polish , but im unable to speak it |
| 12:19.26 | PBeck | all sucks expecting german :> |
| 12:19.43 | SpeedEvil | Especially if it costs money. |
| 12:19.59 | Bish | :/ i will pay anything for openmoko xD |
| 12:20.01 | hrw | I wondered when someone will notice smedia |
| 12:20.12 | SpeedEvil | I'm one sixteenth french. Can't speak it though. |
| 12:20.27 | Bish | sixteenth xD |
| 12:20.40 | PBeck | i cant speak german and english ;) |
| 12:20.50 | jackey | hey, any one has a black NEO, mine is black |
| 12:20.51 | Bish | cant? -_-- |
| 12:20.53 | PBeck | and write is the same ;) |
| 12:20.56 | CoreDump|home | buz: thanks |
| 12:21.17 | PBeck | Bish: right ;) |
| 12:21.17 | buz | still cant say i know any ;) |
| 12:21.19 | jackey | it looks much better than http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 |
| 12:21.23 | CoreDump|home | jackey: most pre-p1 neos appear to be black (thank $deity!) |
| 12:21.39 | buz | better like what |
| 12:21.57 | jackey | haha, i am a newbie |
| 12:22.03 | PBeck | hm give it news to the mass production? |
| 12:22.58 | Bish | < hrw> I wondered when someone will notice smedia <- why? |
| 12:23.00 | SpeedEvil | There is to be no mass production. It's all assembled by magic elves, in their cottages. |
| 12:23.04 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:23.07 | Bish | lol ! |
| 12:23.13 | SpeedEvil | The delay is in shipping the parts to Narnia. |
| 12:23.15 | jackey | the battery only last for two hours |
| 12:24.39 | CoreDump|home | sounds like a p0 =D |
| 12:24.58 | jackey | recharing will take about 20 hours |
| 12:25.24 | Bish | oO what? |
| 12:25.24 | jackey | i think so, it is p0 |
| 12:25.31 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 12:25.33 | CoreDump|home | jackey: hook up your neo to a laptop via USB and forget the wall charger |
| 12:25.58 | jackey | ok, let me give a try tomorrow |
| 12:26.02 | CoreDump|home | charger == 100mA max, USB == 500mA max |
| 12:26.10 | jackey | i c |
| 12:26.15 | [ryd] | counter |
| 12:26.15 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: a day 23:47:03 (1.991 +-2.0 days) (1306;217) |
| 12:26.46 | CM | CoreDump|home: Are you sure all laptops give 500mA? |
| 12:26.52 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 12:27.50 | CoreDump|home | CM: well not really. All that I have access to work |
| 12:27.50 | CM | CoreDump|home: Ok, just know some who have had problems with that |
| 12:27.50 | jackey | hey, Do I really need the development board for JTAG and Serial for debugging? |
| 12:27.50 | CM | Only getting 100mA from it |
| 12:28.05 | CoreDump|home | jackey: yes |
| 12:28.22 | CoreDump|home | CM: :\ Guess I'm just lucky then. |
| 12:28.24 | *** join/#openmoko mattzerah (n=matt@121.50.222.55) |
| 12:28.32 | mattzerah | join #centos-social |
| 12:28.38 | jackey | anyway, that I glue one myself? |
| 12:28.53 | jackey | is that possible for me to glue one myself? |
| 12:29.15 | *** join/#openmoko fijal (n=fijal@host-53-19.compi.net.pl) |
| 12:29.30 | fijal | hi |
| 12:29.49 | jackey | CoreDump, you mean i can use USB? |
| 12:30.11 | CoreDump|home | jackey: for charging w/ 500mA, yes |
| 12:31.09 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p54a35c8d.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:31.21 | jackey | misunderstand here. I want to do everything from scratch. My question is that do i need extra equipment to do that |
| 12:32.01 | jackey | such an extra development with JTAG and Serial cable |
| 12:32.09 | CoreDump|home | jackey: you need the debug board to access the serial console and JTAG. |
| 12:32.39 | jackey | How do i get one? |
| 12:32.48 | jackey | or i can glue one myself |
| 12:32.54 | jackey | Can I? |
| 12:33.00 | fijal | is developement release planned to ship also in the EU? |
| 12:33.00 | aloril | fijal: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:33.02 | CoreDump|home | I doubt it |
| 12:33.23 | CoreDump|home | jackey: contact FIC to get one, they are not available for sale yet |
| 12:35.20 | fijal | albino: ok, thx :) |
| 12:35.25 | fijal | sorry, aloril: |
| 12:35.46 | Bish | <3 openmoko |
| 12:36.17 | fijal | anyway, web page says |
| 12:36.19 | fijal | "OpenMokoProjects Could Not Connect to Database:" |
| 12:36.26 | fijal | is this expected? |
| 12:36.49 | guaqua | it's been reported, but obviously not corrected |
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| 12:54.48 | simon__ | counter? |
| 12:54.48 | aloril | "/msg aloril counter?" for actual long message, giving short version here: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: a day 23:32:57 (1.981 +-2.0 days) (1307;217) |
| 12:55.44 | fijal | nice bot, may I have one? |
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| 13:01.05 | *** join/#openmoko abe (n=abe@adsl-ull-147-147.41-151.net24.it) |
| 13:01.55 | abe | hi everyone |
| 13:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178098093.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 13:02.42 | abe | any news on this phone?! |
| 13:02.42 | aloril | abe: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:04.31 | *** part/#openmoko abe (n=abe@adsl-ull-147-147.41-151.net24.it) |
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| 13:19.49 | jackey | CoreDump|home, I will do that |
| 13:20.03 | jackey | *^_^* |
| 13:23.13 | jackey | hey, which tools can create a chat like http://people.openmoko.org/sean/specifications/images/software_stack2007.png? |
| 13:27.20 | jeddy3_ | what is the best way to test recent openmoko images on pc? qemu have not build for weeks for me |
| 13:28.23 | rwhitby | jeddy3_: qemu seems to build for most other people - what error are you seeing? |
| 13:28.23 | jeddy3_ | Fatal error: can't create gnokiigsm/virtmodem.o: No such file or directory |
| 13:29.16 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:29.23 | jeddy3_ | rwhitby: (with mokomakefile's make qemu) |
| 13:29.28 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5b07cbc4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:30.26 | rwhitby | jeddy3: try removing the build/qemu directory and rebuilding |
| 13:30.52 | jeddy3_ | rwhitby, will try! |
| 13:30.56 | jeddy3_ | *building* |
| 13:32.25 | rwhitby | Don't - these things should have dependencies which fix problems like that, but in this case it didn't. |
| 13:33.01 | jeddy3_ | rwhitby, yup it works, thanks |
| 13:34.34 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
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| 13:38.51 | buz | http://rss.slashdot.org/~r/Slashdot/slashdot/~3/120255961/article.pl why would anyone buy that PoS |
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| 13:42.37 | hrw | buz: I would buy it |
| 13:42.45 | buz | for what |
| 13:42.48 | hrw | buz: it can be interesting device under linux |
| 13:42.51 | buz | hacking linux on it? |
| 13:42.54 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:42.57 | hrw | quite powerfull ARM machine |
| 13:45.36 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178098093.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 14:04.25 | LuitvD | hrw: would be great to have MS hardware run linux :P |
| 14:05.03 | hrw | cpu used in zune is one of most powerfull arm cores |
| 14:05.33 | LuitvD | nice |
| 14:06.17 | LuitvD | freescale i.MX31 |
| 14:06.27 | hrw | hardware FP unit inside |
| 14:07.26 | LuitvD | vector FP |
| 14:08.37 | LuitvD | it's strange that the Zune has the Lite version then... |
| 14:09.07 | hrw | less storage? |
| 14:09.33 | LuitvD | no, the non-L version has a GPU interface |
| 14:09.42 | LuitvD | can have peripheral GPU |
| 14:09.46 | LuitvD | the L version can't |
| 14:16.22 | buz | i thought non-l came with gpu |
| 14:16.34 | buz | at very least 2d accel |
| 14:18.11 | bmidgley | when do I get google earth on a handheld :) |
| 14:19.09 | SpeedEvil | poke the LCD out, and look through the back :) |
| 14:20.25 | bmidgley | and jump up really high? |
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| 14:20.38 | SpeedEvil | Zooming is a problem. |
| 14:21.16 | SpeedEvil | Google earth is perhaps the only app I think that'd make a real case for a GPU. |
| 14:23.16 | sannes | counter |
| 14:23.16 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: a day 22:48:33 (1.950 +-2.0 days) (1308;217) |
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| 14:32.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware/ru]] [[Bluetooth_Support]] [[User_talk:Jackey]] [[Introduction/zh_cn]] [[FAQ/zh_cn]] |
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| 15:11.56 | duffyd | hi has anyone got any updates on the scheduled 20th of May production run of Neo1973s? |
| 15:12.34 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 15:12.45 | duffyd | SpeedEvil: k, thanks :-) |
| 15:12.46 | CM | duffyd: Not a sound from anyone.. We're all waiting |
| 15:12.56 | duffyd | ok |
| 15:12.59 | SpeedEvil | Nor any info on if the 10th run was cancelled, or delayed |
| 15:13.08 | duffyd | mmmm |
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| 16:00.19 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2091 10/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb: |
| 16:00.19 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Remove matchbox-applet-startup-monitor from task-openmoko as we use |
| 16:00.19 | CIA-23 | openmoko: openmoko-panel-startup now. |
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| 16:14.08 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: great! |
| 16:17.43 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: This commit or because I commited your patch this nigth? |
| 16:19.01 | hrw | this one |
| 16:20.44 | hrw | ~curse openmoko bitbake |
| 16:20.57 | apt | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, openmoko bitbake ! |
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| 16:21.05 | ewon | harsh |
| 16:21.06 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: This was just cleanup. I commited the a working panel-2 applet some time ago. Hopefully find time this week to discuss the merge to matchbox svn. |
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| 16:34.21 | RedDog | Why OpenMokoProjects Could Not Connect to Database? |
| 16:34.21 | aloril | RedDog: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 16:35.01 | WebJames | any news? |
| 16:35.58 | Kensan | ewon: let it choose it's own faith just like DiskDoctor (http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=128404&cid=10721509) |
| 16:35.58 | Elrond | WebJames - Not really, except I can't reproduce GPS-stuff from C in python. :-| |
| 16:39.20 | stefan_schmidt | RedDog: If we would know we had fixed already. :) Just kidding. Our admin should look into this. |
| 16:39.29 | stefan_schmidt | RedDog: Already bug filled. |
| 16:39.36 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Got a longer cable? |
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| 16:52.16 | barmeier | hi |
| 16:54.05 | WebJames | Elrond, that's not so good. i thought that today would carry news of phase 1 |
| 16:56.25 | Elrond | counter |
| 16:56.25 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: a day 21:31:58 (1.897 +-1.9 days) (1309;217) |
| 16:56.39 | Elrond | Doesn't look like news. |
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| 16:59.06 | Elrond | Hi ossman! |
| 16:59.14 | ossman | evening |
| 17:00.41 | balrog-kun | ossman: hiya |
| 17:00.46 | balrog-kun | i got the SD host to work on my omap board |
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| 17:02.02 | ossman | nice |
| 17:03.39 | balrog-kun | ossman: i will CC you on one of the patches if it's ok |
| 17:03.41 | balrog-kun | tomorrow |
| 17:03.45 | ossman | sure |
| 17:05.05 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: startup-panel looks nice but it would be great to change colors |
| 17:05.36 | hrw | stefan_schmidt: now it use old colors and is nearly not visible |
| 17:05.38 | hrw | cu |
| 17:07.54 | stefan_schmidt | hrw|gone: yeah, still need to clarify if we need other hourglass icons for the panel instead of just changing colors |
| 17:07.56 | Elrond | BTW: Is the backlight control in current kernels also broken vor Bv04? |
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| 17:24.38 | LuitvD | counter |
| 17:24.38 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: a day 21:17:52 (1.887 +-1.9 days) (1310;217) |
| 17:25.21 | LuitvD | hmm, I wonder if there actually is any delay... |
| 17:26.34 | duffyd | LuitvD: that makes 2 of us :-) |
| 17:26.35 | LuitvD | maybe they're already running production on the neo and are now trying to get the hxd8 on the line too? |
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| 17:26.35 | LuitvD | would make quite a nice surprise :P |
| 17:26.35 | duffyd | yeah :-) |
| 17:26.35 | LuitvD | that the late-may release is 2 phones instead of one |
| 17:26.36 | LuitvD | would be cool :) |
| 17:26.43 | duffyd | LuitvD: very cool |
| 17:26.51 | duffyd | LuitvD: btw what is the hxd8? |
| 17:27.13 | LuitvD | duffyd: it's something that has come into vision lately |
| 17:27.15 | guaqua | i'm thinking you are delirious |
| 17:27.24 | guaqua | there is going to be one phone |
| 17:27.37 | LuitvD | guaqua: I am delirious :) always been |
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| 17:27.54 | duffyd | LuitvD: ok, do tell :-) |
| 17:28.08 | duffyd | about the hxd8 that is |
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| 17:28.21 | LuitvD | duffyd: appearately FIC is prototyping/building another OpenMoko device right now, because some hardware patches and docs appeared on the subversion repositories |
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| 17:29.35 | LuitvD | duffyd: mentioning the code-name HXD8 several times, combined with some hardware specs |
| 17:29.35 | duffyd | LuitvD: btw I'm in Taiwan at the moment. So *hopefully* closer to the 'source' :-) |
| 17:29.36 | duffyd | LuitvD: ahhh, thanks |
| 17:29.36 | LuitvD | duffyd: this weekend I gathered the info on those hardware patches and put them here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/HXD8 |
| 17:29.41 | LuitvD | duffyd: well, the production is done in mainland China |
| 17:29.42 | duffyd | LuitvD: great! |
| 17:29.43 | LuitvD | not taiwan |
| 17:30.04 | duffyd | LuitvD: yes, I know but they should eventually land back at FIC :-) |
| 17:30.15 | LuitvD | yes |
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| 18:55.05 | zipola | Is the announce list still active? I haven't received any info for ages. |
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| 18:58.06 | duffyd | zipola: you and me both :-) |
| 18:58.28 | balrog-kun | i haven't either, but then again i'm not subscribed |
| 18:59.42 | duffyd | it appears that 'counter' is the main way to find out |
| 18:59.42 | duffyd | counter |
| 18:59.43 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: a day 20:30:43 (1.855 +-1.9 days) (1311;218) |
| 18:59.43 | zipola | Counter is all about numbers, I want something to read :) |
| 18:59.46 | stefan_schmidt | zipola: Buy a book? |
| 18:59.58 | duffyd | zipola: yes. I think it's called PR (in marketing speak) |
| 19:00.20 | balrog-kun | i want something to make calls with :) |
| 19:01.13 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: Your bv1 can already do this. :) |
| 19:01.17 | stefan_schmidt | bv4 |
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| 19:02.41 | balrog-kun | speaking of which, i need to try it harder tomorrow |
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| 19:28.21 | Fletch | counter |
| 19:28.22 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 45%) P1: a day 20:16:00 (1.844 +-1.8 days) (1312;218) |
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| 19:43.18 | buz | LuitvD: where exactly did you get the impression that hxd8 has a gsm module |
| 19:43.57 | LuitvD | err... :P |
| 19:44.11 | LuitvD | quote: |
| 19:44.12 | LuitvD | GSM/GPRS |
| 19:44.12 | LuitvD | Not much info yet. |
| 19:44.15 | LuitvD | unquote |
| 19:44.20 | LuitvD | ;) |
| 19:44.45 | buz | i thought YOU wrote that page |
| 19:46.18 | LuitvD | yes |
| 19:46.21 | LuitvD | not much info yet |
| 19:46.27 | balrog-kun | LuitvD first wrote it, then got the impression that this information was somewhere in the wiki, and indeed it was there |
| 19:46.28 | LuitvD | so I don't know |
| 19:47.04 | LuitvD | well... I simply expect it to be a GSM device.. |
| 19:47.22 | LuitvD | and it does |
| 19:47.25 | LuitvD | have |
| 19:47.26 | LuitvD | gsm |
| 19:47.27 | LuitvD | XD |
| 19:47.41 | LuitvD | damn, I'm chaotic today, ... |
| 19:47.55 | balrog-kun | but honestly i also had the impression that there was a GSM from looking at the first u-boot patches |
| 19:47.55 | LuitvD | there |
| 19:48.13 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: not the u-boot patches, the gpio.txt |
| 19:48.17 | buz | maybe fic stole a few iphone prototypes hehehe |
| 19:48.28 | LuitvD | GPH0OnCTS0MODEM_CTSGSM Modem |
| 19:48.28 | LuitvD | GPH1InRTS0MODEM_RTSGSM Modem |
| 19:48.29 | LuitvD | GPH2IRXD0MODEM_RXDGSM Modem |
| 19:48.29 | LuitvD | GPH3OTXD0MODEM_TXDGSM Modem |
| 19:48.29 | LuitvD | G |
| 19:48.29 | balrog-kun | yeah, gpio.txt has MODEM_RST and MODEM_ON too, |
| 19:48.41 | LuitvD | and modem on / rst |
| 19:48.51 | LuitvD | and there's GPS |
| 19:48.52 | balrog-kun | but i think i've seen something in the u-boot |
| 19:48.57 | buz | that seems quite clear then |
| 19:49.03 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: could be... |
| 19:49.11 | LuitvD | buz: yeah :P |
| 19:49.13 | *** part/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-021-115.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:49.34 | wiml | is the HXD8 different from the Neo1973? The comment in hxd8-core.patch implies that HXD8 is just the internal model name for the Neo1973 |
| 19:49.36 | balrog-kun | oh, gpio.txt also mentions a remote control |
| 19:49.39 | LuitvD | buz: but I put "not much info yet" there because there's no info on what brand/type modem |
| 19:49.46 | wiml | (I just googled for HXD8 and that was one of the first results) |
| 19:49.52 | balrog-kun | i wonder if the liht sensor is connected with remote control |
| 19:50.03 | LuitvD | wiml: the Neo's code name is GTA |
| 19:50.17 | wiml | hmm |
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| 19:50.50 | LuitvD | wiml: the only thing on the internet about HXD8 is about this project, because nobody has used that codename before, and the openmoko patches are the first to point at the FIC device |
| 19:51.27 | LuitvD | wiml: just like when you googled Neo1973 about 6 months ago, you could only find it, combined with "OpenMoko" |
| 19:51.35 | balrog-kun | the pins are wired to something called URSW |
| 19:51.42 | wiml | well... http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/hxd8-core.patch?rev=1931&view=markup |
| 19:51.44 | wiml | ? |
| 19:51.50 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: which pins? |
| 19:52.01 | balrog-kun | LuitvD: RXD2 and TXD2 |
| 19:52.08 | wiml | "Say Y here [to MACH_HXD8] if you are using the FIC Neo1973 GSM Phone" |
| 19:52.24 | balrog-kun | there's no description after these pins like for UART0 and UART1 |
| 19:52.36 | buz | wiml: that makes no sense |
| 19:52.44 | buz | neo1973 has s3c2410 |
| 19:52.54 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: that's odd :) |
| 19:53.00 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: I'll look it up |
| 19:53.01 | buz | i think thats a mistake |
| 19:53.38 | buz | is mach machine archictecture |
| 19:53.43 | buz | or mach as in mach kernel |
| 19:54.01 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji_ (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 19:54.28 | balrog-kun | buz: in Linux it means machine :) |
| 19:54.32 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: I wonder how much of the info on the wiki page is actually incorrect :) |
| 19:54.33 | Vegar | buz: the next neo1973 revisions are supposed to have s3c2440 |
| 19:54.35 | buz | ah right |
| 19:54.37 | wiml | so maybe HXD8 is a later phone, but still branded Neo1973 despite significant internal differences (like using the S3C2440 instead of '2410) |
| 19:54.40 | buz | Vegar: yes |
| 19:54.49 | buz | i think they should up the number on rev2 |
| 19:54.57 | wiml | Neo1974 ? :) |
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| 19:55.03 | buz | sure |
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| 19:55.23 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: 'coz I found quite a bit more information, that's not yet on the wiki, because I'm not sure :) |
| 19:55.25 | buz | but it has 480pixel screen |
| 19:55.32 | buz | i'm pissed if they degrade the scree nfor rev2 |
| 19:55.36 | webjames_ | hello everyone |
| 19:55.38 | balrog-kun | wiml: well, there is a already a couple of peripherals in HXD8 that you don't see in phones and that the initial Neo1973 specs don't talk about |
| 19:56.39 | LuitvD | buz: what do you mean, 480pixel screen? |
| 19:56.50 | buz | 480x272 |
| 19:56.55 | LuitvD | ah, the HXD |
| 19:57.18 | LuitvD | I bet the Neo will remain VGA through all hardware revisions |
| 19:57.37 | buz | i very much hope so |
| 19:57.39 | LuitvD | they'll only degrade resolution if there's some real supply problem for those VGA LCM's |
| 19:58.06 | buz | maybe hxd8 is a more phone than pda device |
| 19:58.11 | webjames_ | LuitvD: i really hope they exhaust every other possibility before degrading the res |
| 19:58.31 | LuitvD | webjames_: I bet they will... |
| 19:58.47 | LuitvD | webjames_: maybe that's why there's no announcement yet, maybe it isn't |
| 19:58.53 | buz | i think its kinda weird that 1year after they must have started planning neo the lcd makers still cant deliver volume of the lcm |
| 19:58.54 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner_ (n=ajturner@adsl-68-122-126-132.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 19:59.19 | webjames_ | buz, i'd agree with that |
| 19:59.26 | LuitvD | buz: it's a new LCM for those people ... |
| 19:59.34 | LuitvD | one of their newest |
| 20:00.02 | LuitvD | FIC chose an LCM that was still prototyping/sampling at the time of Phase0 |
| 20:00.28 | *** join/#openmoko webjames_ (n=james@82-45-1-115.cable.ubr01.nail.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:00.31 | Vegar | that's pretty cool |
| 20:01.38 | LuitvD | it's strange that so many pins (in gpio.txt) are NC (Not Connected) |
| 20:02.14 | LuitvD | all of GPJ and GPG3-7 |
| 20:02.50 | buz | why oh why no 3mpixel cam |
| 20:03.20 | wiml | I don't really care about megapixellage in a phone cam |
| 20:03.31 | wiml | I'm more interested in poor lighting / dynamic range |
| 20:03.34 | LuitvD | oh yes, that's what's gonna be on GPJ ofcourse |
| 20:03.35 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 20:03.59 | buz | megapixel is the new megahurtz |
| 20:04.05 | LuitvD | yay :) |
| 20:04.29 | webjames | a camera would be nice, although surly it would be possible to plug in a webcam? |
| 20:04.31 | LuitvD | my 5MPixel cam shoots way better pictures then my sister's 10MPixel cam |
| 20:04.45 | LuitvD | webjames: yup, via USB Host :) |
| 20:04.58 | buz | too be fair, many of the 3mpixel phone cams DO come with better optics than lower end ones |
| 20:05.04 | buz | not good, but better |
| 20:05.08 | webjames | is your sister one of these people who puts her finger over the lens? |
| 20:05.15 | webjames | @ LuitvD |
| 20:05.44 | LuitvD | webjames: yup, well, on her camera, it's over the flash :P |
| 20:07.18 | LuitvD | oh I really hope the HXD8 has an accelerometer :D |
| 20:07.37 | LuitvD | then all my predictions are correct :P |
| 20:07.42 | buz | id much prefer a place to put a stylus |
| 20:07.46 | buz | if its a touchscreen |
| 20:07.49 | LuitvD | buz: true :P |
| 20:07.57 | buz | that's pure stupidity |
| 20:08.02 | buz | and not excusable |
| 20:08.15 | buz | lack of wifi has a reason |
| 20:08.21 | buz | lack of place to store a stylus not |
| 20:08.22 | LuitvD | buz: hell, after 2,5 years whith a Palm T|E2 i never need my stylus anymore |
| 20:08.33 | buz | i still use mine daily with my p900 |
| 20:08.35 | wiml | accelerometer would be way cool (and fairly cheap AIUI) |
| 20:08.40 | LuitvD | just do everything whith a pen |
| 20:08.55 | wiml | LuitvD, but where do I keep the pen then? |
| 20:09.07 | buz | yeah |
| 20:09.10 | LuitvD | I always have a pen in my back pocket |
| 20:09.15 | buz | wtf |
| 20:09.19 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:09.20 | buz | how can one store a pen there |
| 20:09.26 | buz | i'd have blue pants every week |
| 20:09.32 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:09.40 | LuitvD | ballpoint... |
| 20:09.47 | buz | those leak too |
| 20:09.52 | LuitvD | not really... |
| 20:09.59 | buz | one would need some sort of titanium encased uberpen |
| 20:10.02 | buz | indestructible |
| 20:10.16 | LuitvD | I never had a leaking ballpoint, ever |
| 20:10.25 | buz | i destroy EVERY pen |
| 20:10.27 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:10.38 | buz | only once destroyed a phone though |
| 20:10.44 | buz | and that one by jumping into the lake |
| 20:10.48 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 20:11.02 | LuitvD | I always empty pens completely :) |
| 20:11.19 | wiml | solution: wear blue jeans and use blue ballpoints. if they leak no one can tell ;) |
| 20:11.27 | LuitvD | I find a pen that's comfortable in my hands, use it all the time, carry it with me all the time |
| 20:11.36 | LuitvD | and when it's through, I have a new good one ready |
| 20:12.03 | buz | i've started getting the cheap 0.12EUR ones |
| 20:12.19 | LuitvD | I have a whole bunch of pens from work |
| 20:12.23 | webjames | get a fisher space pen, they don't leak and they are small |
| 20:12.33 | buz | and cost like 150us |
| 20:12.47 | *** part/#openmoko benJIman (n=bw@compsoc.sunion.warwick.ac.uk) |
| 20:12.52 | webjames | no, i got a bullet for £10 of ebay |
| 20:12.55 | LuitvD | though you buy them for 15 cents :P |
| 20:13.03 | SpeedEvil | You can get the fischer pen refils cheap. |
| 20:13.12 | SpeedEvil | Jam it into a cheap pen. |
| 20:13.22 | buz | way too much work |
| 20:13.24 | buz | best dont write |
| 20:13.42 | LuitvD | I need a stainless steel pen... |
| 20:13.49 | SpeedEvil | You can get silver pens. |
| 20:13.57 | SpeedEvil | They have a silver tip. Pure silver. |
| 20:13.59 | LuitvD | had an aluminium one once... bloody dangerous thing |
| 20:14.03 | buz | stainless ones are quite easy to find |
| 20:14.13 | buz | they just dont have the advantages of stainless |
| 20:14.24 | buz | wtf is a silver pen good for |
| 20:14.27 | LuitvD | never get an aluminium pen, they break and get absurdly sharp |
| 20:14.36 | SpeedEvil | Silver nib. |
| 20:14.46 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-509bcbaf39cc245c) |
| 20:14.52 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: silver ball you mean? |
| 20:14.57 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 20:15.02 | SpeedEvil | A solid silver cone. |
| 20:15.05 | LuitvD | ah |
| 20:15.06 | buz | its more of a pencil then |
| 20:15.07 | LuitvD | nice :) |
| 20:15.10 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 20:15.18 | LuitvD | and expensive XD |
| 20:15.21 | SpeedEvil | Really hard to break, will write on most stuff, and waterproof. |
| 20:15.26 | buz | silver is not very expensive |
| 20:15.31 | LuitvD | well... |
| 20:15.33 | SpeedEvil | No. Not now. |
| 20:15.42 | buz | well its increased steadily |
| 20:15.54 | LuitvD | titanium is cheaper right? |
| 20:15.57 | SpeedEvil | Bunker+Hunt failed. |
| 20:16.00 | buz | i doubt it |
| 20:16.06 | SpeedEvil | You want a nice soft metal. |
| 20:16.17 | buz | titanium is painful to machine |
| 20:16.19 | SpeedEvil | Pure silver is quite soft, and corrosion proof. |
| 20:16.48 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: I don't want a soft metal, because soft metal can bend... especially when the pen is in a back pocket |
| 20:17.01 | SpeedEvil | It's a cone. Of solid metal. |
| 20:17.02 | buz | you want soft metal for the tip |
| 20:17.07 | SpeedEvil | You're not bending it. |
| 20:17.13 | buz | you might |
| 20:17.16 | buz | silver IS soft |
| 20:17.47 | buz | where do you get those |
| 20:17.52 | buz | sounds like the perfect gift |
| 20:18.22 | SpeedEvil | hang on. have the link somewhere. |
| 20:18.23 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 20:18.28 | SpeedEvil | It's a keychain one. |
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| 20:19.15 | SpeedEvil | http://edcforums.com/ |
| 20:19.34 | SpeedEvil | Though that's the base site - it was a post on there. |
| 20:19.37 | SpeedEvil | Looking now. |
| 20:19.45 | wiml | http://www.grand-illusions.com/acatalog/info_48.html ? |
| 20:20.24 | buz | silver is much nicer for a gift |
| 20:22.24 | CoreDump|home | this type of pen was new to me thanks |
| 20:22.29 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 20:22.44 | SpeedEvil | Yes - probably that one. |
| 20:23.27 | buz | that one is NOT silver |
| 20:23.34 | SpeedEvil | Well - not that one. |
| 20:23.52 | SpeedEvil | there are many similar ones. there was a very small one - I'm still looking. |
| 20:25.04 | buz | basically, you want a pencil formed piece of silver |
| 20:25.23 | buz | might not be entirely practical, but the gift value is giant |
| 20:25.39 | buz | and since silver is soft, its easy to imprint with special message |
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| 20:26.31 | buz | (basket.kde.org that is) |
| 20:27.09 | wiml | I wonder if metal pens would make good touchscreen styli or if they develop burrs or edges that would damage the screen |
| 20:29.39 | buz | they are too hard for that i guess |
| 20:29.48 | buz | i for one would not want to use one on my tablet |
| 20:30.46 | CoreDump|home | talking of tablets....does anyone know any decent sub-500$ ones that run Linux natively? And the Nx00 don't count ;) |
| 20:31.07 | buz | i meant tablet as in table tpc ;) |
| 20:31.14 | SpeedEvil | http://edcforums.com/index.php?board=32.0 - the pens forum. |
| 20:31.25 | buz | but mine runs linux nearly perfectly |
| 20:31.36 | buz | the issue is just that there is barely any handwriting recognition on linux |
| 20:32.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Category:Neo1973_Hardware/ru]] |
| 20:32.50 | CoreDump|home | buz: true |
| 20:46.32 | LuitvD | buz: handwriting > mathML |
| 20:47.01 | LuitvD | I really prefer on-screen-keyboard over handwriting though... |
| 20:47.27 | LuitvD | don't care about handwriting recognition |
| 20:47.57 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:48.11 | buz | no one in their sane mind writes mathml by hand |
| 20:48.38 | LuitvD | buz: I mean a formula-recognition program... |
| 20:48.44 | buz | there is one for iwndows |
| 20:48.50 | LuitvD | found one when looking for handwriting recognition |
| 20:48.51 | buz | works very well |
| 20:48.55 | LuitvD | yeha |
| 20:48.56 | buz | but costs serious $ |
| 20:49.05 | LuitvD | there's an open source one too... |
| 20:49.11 | buz | oh really |
| 20:49.13 | buz | where |
| 20:49.18 | LuitvD | dunno |
| 20:49.22 | buz | name? |
| 20:49.30 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.125.145.19.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 20:49.33 | LuitvD | scan sourceforge, saw it there |
| 20:49.47 | LuitvD | don't know the name anymore because I didn't really care |
| 20:49.48 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:50.46 | LuitvD | I wonder... those I2C and SPI pins available on the Neo... you could hang a SID chip on that I2C bus |
| 20:50.52 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 20:51.05 | LuitvD | if you could only loop it back towards the wolfson codec for afterprocessing... |
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| 21:06.59 | Elrond | LuitvD - On the neo, the on screen keyboards aren't ... optimal so say the least. |
| 21:07.17 | *** join/#openmoko mmp (n=mmp@TheWide.ubyt.sdjls.uniba.sk) |
| 21:07.29 | LuitvD | Elrond: why? what's wrong whith it then? |
| 21:07.37 | Elrond | LuitvD - openmoko-keyboard already is better then matchbox-keyboard. If openmoko-keyboard would work in landscape mode, it would get usable. |
| 21:08.46 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: last time I checked, OM kbd was close to useless. No TAB key, god-awful switching between lowercase uppercase and symbols etc |
| 21:09.07 | woglinde | coredump yes |
| 21:09.12 | CoreDump|home | the ancient matchbox kbd was much preferred |
| 21:09.54 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Yep. But matchbox-keyboard is plain unreadable. |
| 21:10.05 | SpeedEvil | SID? |
| 21:10.09 | CoreDump|home | not to me, sorry |
| 21:10.23 | CoreDump|home | but I feel you pain =) |
| 21:10.38 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - I gave the neo with matchbox-keyboard to a guy with good eyes, he was struggling. |
| 21:10.50 | woglinde | elrond hm for me its okay |
| 21:11.02 | CoreDump|home | my eyesight sucks and I find it to be ok-ish |
| 21:11.11 | Elrond | Hmm.. |
| 21:11.44 | Elrond | Well. I personally am completely lost on the matchbox-keyboard. And yes, om-kbd isn't really good either. |
| 21:12.16 | Elrond | I should try mb-kbd in landscape mode. |
| 21:12.40 | woglinde | hm matchbox-kb has only one problem delete/backspace happend to offen |
| 21:12.48 | CoreDump|home | The only truly annoying thing about matchbox kbd is the little fact that it parses the space _between_ keys as enter. Once mis-tap and *bang* |
| 21:12.53 | Elrond | BTW: Do the current rootfs-images have a menu option for rotating? Last time, I didn't find it and used xrandr on the cmdline. |
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| 21:14.32 | LuitvD | need some rest... have my chemistry exams tomorrow |
| 21:14.34 | Elrond | Good night LuitvD |
| 21:14.40 | Elrond | Huh. |
| 21:14.43 | Elrond | LuitvD - Good luck! :-) |
| 21:14.45 | CoreDump|home | n8 LuitvD |
| 21:14.46 | woglinde | nite luit |
| 21:14.47 | LuitvD | thnx :) |
| 21:14.50 | LuitvD | good night all |
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| 21:26.24 | Elrond | Okay... someone asked for flicker... The best thing to get flicker: kill all full-screen apps, so you see the X-background, then "xsetroot -solid orange". |
| 21:27.20 | webjames | night all |
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| 22:32.44 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 22:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 22:34.32 | pavelm | Hello, everyone |
| 22:34.33 | pavelm | ...so I've created time-traveling gps from openmoko. |
| 22:34.37 | balrog-kun | turns out the sim card must sit firmly in the slot |
| 22:34.55 | balrog-kun | what is a time-travelling gps? :) |
| 22:34.55 | pavelm | balrog: Yep, the sim slot is misdesigned :-( |
| 22:35.05 | balrog-kun | pavelm: well, but it worked |
| 22:35.13 | balrog-kun | i made my first call :) |
| 22:35.20 | pavelm | balrog: bluetooth gps that shows you where you've been 10 minutes ago :-) |
| 22:35.41 | balrog-kun | oh, that's useful |
| 22:35.46 | pavelm | balrog: Did mixers work? |
| 22:35.59 | Elrond | pavelm - *giggle* delaying gllin output for 10minutes, then feeding to bt? |
| 22:36.05 | balrog-kun | more useful would be to know where you're going to be in 10 minutes from now though |
| 22:36.23 | pavelm | balrog: Did you use Phase1 software, or something else, to do a call? |
| 22:36.26 | balrog-kun | pavelm: yes, i think they worked - i was talking to myself so can't tell very well |
| 22:36.56 | pavelm | elrond: Well, I probably overloaded cpu with strace & mmc accesses, so it ended up delaying 10+ minutes; I did not _want_ that. |
| 22:37.06 | balrog-kun | pavelm: i first used "cu" to talk to ttySAC0 raw to confirm that the SIM is properly detected now, then used gsmd+OpenMoko dialer and it worked they way it should :) |
| 22:37.19 | Elrond | pavelm - *G* |
| 22:37.25 | *** join/#openmoko baird (n=cbaird@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 22:37.26 | pavelm | balrog: "where you will be in 10 minutes" would violate some rather important laws. |
| 22:37.48 | Elrond | pavelm - I tried to rewrite ph5's hhtest.c in python. I was not successful :-( (and feeling dumb) |
| 22:37.53 | balrog-kun | pavelm: that's what laws are for :) |
| 22:38.06 | balrog-kun | i don't know if answering calls is implemented though |
| 22:38.27 | pavelm | elrond: I'd say that hhtest is the kind of code that should be written in c. |
| 22:38.36 | pavelm | balrog: I think they are. |
| 22:38.58 | pavelm | ...and the gps seems to mostly work indoors near window. Good. |
| 22:39.06 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 22:39.13 | balrog-kun | great |
| 22:39.24 | pavelm | balrog/anyone: did you try to measure standby time? |
| 22:39.32 | pavelm | ...is there good way to get current power consumption? |
| 22:40.05 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: Got a multimeter? |
| 22:40.46 | balrog-kun | i haven't yet |
| 22:40.47 | pavelm | speed: Hmm, not sure if I get multimeter with enough range.. and good way of hooking it up. |
| 22:41.05 | SpeedEvil | 10A range should generally give a resolution of 10mA |
| 22:41.09 | SpeedEvil | which is generally enough. |
| 22:41.16 | balrog-kun | i'm very surprised that the phone doesn't need to know my PIN to make calls with my sim card |
| 22:41.27 | SpeedEvil | You take two bits of copper foil - ideally, aluminium mostly works. |
| 22:41.31 | balrog-kun | but the surprise is only a result of my lack of education |
| 22:41.40 | SpeedEvil | Then put it on double sided tape. |
| 22:41.44 | pavelm | balrog: Oops, that is strange. ... that should not happen. |
| 22:41.45 | SpeedEvil | each side of. |
| 22:42.07 | SpeedEvil | Connect each bit of foil to the meter probe, and slip it in between the battery and the contact. |
| 22:42.27 | pavelm | speed: I've old analog multimeter here. 100mA is biggest range it has. |
| 22:42.31 | balrog-kun | it never asked me for the PIN, and i called my home (landline) number just fine |
| 22:42.33 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. |
| 22:42.43 | pavelm | spped: That's 300mW :-( |
| 22:42.44 | SpeedEvil | That's probably not going to work for other than 'sleep' mode. |
| 22:42.54 | Elrond | pavelm - Well, for hacking around quickly and writing "feed gps with funny byte streams", python is nice. |
| 22:43.15 | pavelm | balrog: That seriously should not happen. SIM card should force you to enter pin. |
| 22:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko hads (n=hads@reef80.anchor.net.au) |
| 22:43.41 | pavelm | balrog: ...it is possible to enter pin with libgsmtool. And I had to do that in order to register to network. |
| 22:44.00 | balrog-kun | pavelm: i never did |
| 22:44.04 | pavelm | ..wait a moment, I have _older_ analog multimeter here :-) |
| 22:44.23 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: depends whether you had the pin on the sim or on the phone on your old phone |
| 22:44.28 | SpeedEvil | Electrons are electrons :) |
| 22:44.38 | balrog-kun | i wonder if there was maybe some option to unlock the card in the older phone's menu and maybe i used it... hmm |
| 22:44.46 | balrog-kun | the phone in which i used this card before |
| 22:45.23 | pavelm | PIN Can be turned off on sim card. |
| 22:45.53 | balrog-kun | that's probably what happened, although on the older phone the PIN had to be entered everytime the device was switched on |
| 22:46.02 | wiml | if you have some resistors handy you could wire up a shunt to measure >100mA with your 100mA meter |
| 22:46.17 | SpeedEvil | Or thin wire even. |
| 22:46.24 | pavelm | speed: 2.5A range - 10W on openmoko should be good enough. |
| 22:46.28 | SpeedEvil | but - it's harder to calibrate. |
| 22:46.47 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: Sure - as long as the voltage drop isn't too much. But I can't imagine that being a problem. |
| 22:47.04 | balrog-kun | it even reports the strength of the signal :) |
| 22:47.49 | balrog-kun | i wonder if i could hack up a real working dialer that supports SMS and answering calls and display signal strength using gnokii sources, this week |
| 22:48.24 | balrog-kun | qtopia should also have some working dialer (although that will be C++) |
| 22:48.46 | woglinde | balrog not really |
| 22:48.55 | zecke | balrog-kun: yes, but not as GPL |
| 22:49.00 | woglinde | sms reading on greenphone is broken too |
| 22:49.09 | balrog-kun | the gnokii code should be easy enough to hook to an ncurses interface |
| 22:49.22 | pavelm | balrog: Actually, I started that. |
| 22:49.26 | pavelm | balrog: See tui.sf.net |
| 22:49.41 | pavelm | balrog: It can dial/answer/read sms |
| 22:49.42 | balrog-kun | pavelm: thanks, gonna try |
| 22:50.01 | pavelm | balrog: scmxx based, not gnokii based, and ncurses. |
| 22:50.15 | pavelm | balrog: I did not figure out how to do reasonable input on openmoko :-( |
| 22:50.31 | SpeedEvil | xterm + 'mouse' input |
| 22:50.37 | balrog-kun | it doesn't depend on gsmd, does it? |
| 22:50.59 | pavelm | speed: yes, that's what I did. And it worked. |
| 22:51.09 | pavelm | speed: But I'd not call it "reasonable" :-) |
| 22:51.16 | SpeedEvil | Meh :) |
| 22:51.19 | pavelm | speed: I guess the code is in tui.sf.net cvs. |
| 22:51.25 | SpeedEvil | Fun. |
| 22:51.33 | balrog-kun | maybe some T9 input method like older phones have |
| 22:51.46 | balrog-kun | i wonder if there's an opensource implementation of T9 available |
| 22:51.46 | pavelm | ...yes, called input_rxvt |
| 22:52.00 | pavelm | balrog: Problem is you can't see the buttons :-) |
| 22:52.23 | balrog-kun | unless you draw some buttons :) |
| 22:52.43 | pavelm | balrog: I'd have to do ascii art... with no space left for phone's display. |
| 22:53.12 | pavelm | balrog: So my hack is that screen contains just 9 really big buttons you don't see... and all the screen area is used for output, too. |
| 22:53.12 | SpeedEvil | The silly solution is to put it as xterm 'unreadable' font. (1x1 pix) |
| 22:53.32 | pavelm | speed: Even 8x8 font is unreadable on openmoko ;-) |
| 22:53.45 | SpeedEvil | 1*1 - treated as a bitmap display. |
| 22:54.41 | Elrond | balrog-kun - AFAIK: T9 is patented. ;-) |
| 22:54.59 | wiml | do you know what aspects are patented? |
| 22:55.00 | balrog-kun | Elrond: oh right, that's likely |
| 22:55.11 | wiml | the basic idea of it seems pretty, well, basic |
| 22:55.12 | Elrond | wiml - No. |
| 22:55.15 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (i=muciipec@p54952EBC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:55.32 | Elrond | wiml - You could try fighting it in court then. ;-) |
| 22:55.44 | Elrond | ... "inexpensively" ;o)) |
| 22:55.53 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: if you want - PM me your address, and I could mail you some copper tape. |
| 22:56.21 | wiml | heh :P |
| 22:56.40 | pavelm | wiml: or you can ignore the patents. Just move to free country ;-) |
| 22:57.07 | Elrond | old europe still is quite free. :) |
| 22:57.30 | woglinde | free? |
| 22:57.55 | Elrond | woglinde - Well, in parts more free than .us |
| 22:58.17 | pavelm | Alan Cox suggests Cuba, while I suggests Czech republic. Russia and China are very safe bets ;-) |
| 22:58.32 | woglinde | russia? |
| 22:58.40 | balrog-kun | anywhere is more free than .us |
| 22:58.52 | balrog-kun | ugh, i wouldn't say that about China |
| 23:00.00 | balrog-kun | does tui save your current alsa settings when it's overwriting them with some of the predefined ones? |
| 23:00.06 | pavelm | balrog: Well, both china and russia ignore both patents and copyrights. |
| 23:00.12 | pavelm | balrog: No saving. |
| 23:00.20 | balrog-kun | okay |
| 23:00.53 | woglinde | hm russia denies your humans right too |
| 23:00.54 | SpeedEvil | China is free - if you are in with the right people. |
| 23:00.59 | SpeedEvil | Same with russia. |
| 23:01.21 | pavelm | ugh. Me stupid. Why bother with double-sided tape when I can connect old 3.6V Battery? |
| 23:01.41 | SpeedEvil | It's simply to ensure that you don't get the wrong contact. |
| 23:01.54 | SpeedEvil | You can of course put the battery externally, and run all the wires. |
| 23:02.11 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-227.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 23:02.46 | pavelm | speed: Hmm, will it boot w/o thermistor connected? |
| 23:02.48 | Elrond | woglinde - Well, isn't Schaeuble on the "deny human rights"-trip also? ;o) |
| 23:03.00 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: I have absolutely no idea. |
| 23:03.35 | pavelm | ...will take phase _0_ openmoko for this experiment |
| 23:03.44 | aloril | (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: Connectivity Problems Sorted Out http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/05/29/connectivity-problems-sorted-out/ |
| 23:03.54 | Elrond | pavelm - If *I* would have constructed the PMU logic, I would not boot without thermistor, logic being "*arg* No signal from thermo. Better be safe, before the bnattery explodes." ;o) |
| 23:04.17 | pavelm | ...hammerhead gps travelled 0.7km ... while sitting on my table ;-) |
| 23:04.18 | woglinde | wb mickeyl |
| 23:04.35 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: You live in a houseboat? |
| 23:04.40 | pavelm | ...actually, it would be nice if openmoko was able to boot w/o battery connected. |
| 23:04.58 | pavelm | speed: No. Apparently hammerhead is not as indoor as it claims :-) |
| 23:05.14 | wiml | some text entry links |
| 23:05.14 | wiml | http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/dasher/ |
| 23:05.15 | wiml | http://depts.washington.edu/ewrite/ |
| 23:05.15 | wiml | http://www.dcs.gla.ac.uk/~jhw/text.html |
| 23:05.15 | wiml | http://www.cs.uta.fi/~poika/g/g.html |
| 23:05.29 | SpeedEvil | It could be the hardware is perfectly able, just the software... |
| 23:05.34 | wiml | (I was looking for that first one (dasher) but the others I ran across looked interesting too) |
| 23:05.39 | SpeedEvil | Who knows. |
| 23:06.11 | SpeedEvil | I don't like dasher. |
| 23:06.16 | SpeedEvil | Oh sure, it looks cool. |
| 23:06.33 | pavelm | speed: Plus, openmoko should have "connect 3.6V here" connector somewhere. |
| 23:06.33 | SpeedEvil | But, I'd really like something that you don't need fullscreen, and constant staring to wrok. |
| 23:06.43 | SpeedEvil | For exasmple, I'm able to type this while watching TB. |
| 23:06.49 | Elrond | wiml - Can you please put the links on the wiki, if you really think, they're good? |
| 23:07.53 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: Hmm. It _might_ not use any power to charge the battery if the battery is fully charged, and it's connected to USB at full-rate. So you could put the meter there. |
| 23:08.10 | wiml | sure |
| 23:09.19 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I never saw it in "idle" mode for me... it always was charging. :-( |
| 23:09.28 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 23:09.47 | SpeedEvil | That's going to _horribly_ screw the battery if it doesn't turn off properly at 4.2V |
| 23:09.53 | SpeedEvil | And just floats it. |
| 23:10.07 | pavelm | now I know it can run w/o thermistor connected ;-) |
| 23:10.26 | SpeedEvil | pavelm: the nasty way. Connect to PC 3.3V line. |
| 23:11.06 | balrog-kun | even though they should be the same thing |
| 23:11.48 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - What does "float it" mean? |
| 23:11.59 | pavelm | balrog: Wrong. |
| 23:12.05 | SpeedEvil | If it keeps the battery voltage at 4.2V |
| 23:12.09 | pavelm | balrog: mem is s3, standby is s1. |
| 23:12.30 | SpeedEvil | rather than as it should - charge it to 4.2, keep it there for 1/2-1 hour, and then let it rest. |
| 23:12.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Hmm. It might... the mode is termed "fast_cccv", which is for "constant current, then constant voltage", I remember. |
| 23:13.01 | SpeedEvil | Keeping the battery all the time at 4.2V is quite bad for life. |
| 23:15.04 | wiml | what battery chemistry is this? LiPo? |
| 23:15.44 | SpeedEvil | Lithium-ion, and Li-Po. |
| 23:15.45 | Elrond | LiIon |
| 23:16.03 | SpeedEvil | (the effect happens on) |
| 23:17.01 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - So what exactly is the right thing to do? |
| 23:17.29 | SpeedEvil | The right thing to do is to turn off the charger after about 1/2 an hour to an hour after it's hit 4.2V |
| 23:18.02 | SpeedEvil | (which is the maximum charge voltage - the 'constant voltage' portion of the charge |
| 23:19.08 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 23:19.35 | Elrond | And then fully disconnect it and let the energy flow straight from usb to the parts, that need it? |
| 23:19.44 | SpeedEvil | Yes. Basically. |
| 23:19.53 | Elrond | I wonder, if the PMU can do that... |
| 23:20.13 | Elrond | But it really should be able to. |
| 23:22.17 | Elrond | I'll look at the kernel sources tomorrow. Maybe we can do the "turn off charging" from userspace after an hour. If that works, I'll see, if the voltage stays constant, or if the whole phone then runs from battery and the usb power is not used for anything. |
| 23:23.20 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti541210a080-5391.bb.online.no) |
| 23:24.42 | balrog-kun | wow, backing up the original flash contents was easy |
| 23:25.03 | balrog-kun | i thought i was going to have to implement writing to SD in u-boot for that |
| 23:25.29 | pavelm | balrog: How do you backup? |
| 23:25.59 | balrog-kun | pavelm: "netcat -l -p 20000 > mtdblock0" on the host |
| 23:26.14 | balrog-kun | and "cat /dev/mtdblock0 | nc 192.168.0.1 20000" on the target |
| 23:26.29 | balrog-kun | repeat for mtdblock(1-4) |
| 23:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko xl0 (i=user@80.253.205.252) |
| 23:29.18 | balrog-kun | together with a copy of the output of "mtdparts" in u-boot (or simply your dmesg) it lets you reproduce the whole flash later |
| 23:30.07 | pavelm | balrog: Aha, ok. That should go into wiki somewhere :-) |
| 23:30.36 | balrog-kun | ah, ok, i will do that |
| 23:30.39 | rwhitby | cat /dev/mtdblock* > backup.bin, then scp backup.bin ? |
| 23:30.59 | balrog-kun | the thing is where will you store backup.bin? |
| 23:31.18 | rwhitby | hmm - yeah. I'm used to flash being 8MB on the nslu2 :-) |
| 23:31.59 | balrog-kun | plus scp didn't work on the stock image, for me |
| 23:32.19 | balrog-kun | it's the dropbear implementation i think |
| 23:34.12 | pavelm | okay, so powered-off openmoko is ~.25mA, and running openmoko (screen on) is ~.25A |
| 23:34.15 | pavelm | (phase 0) |
| 23:34.38 | pavelm | sleeping openmoko (but screen still on) is ~.125A |
| 23:35.09 | pavelm | idle cpu vs. busy cpu does not seem to make much difference .. ~.02A |
| 23:35.16 | SpeedEvil | At 4.?V? |
| 23:35.36 | miip | what about backlight on/off? |
| 23:35.57 | SpeedEvil | GPS on and off. |
| 23:36.16 | pavelm | Ok, maybe 0.04A is the cpu |
| 23:36.22 | pavelm | Can't play with the backlight. GPS off. |
| 23:36.22 | balrog-kun | i expected sleeping openmoko would be more efficient |
| 23:36.29 | pavelm | at 4.1W |
| 23:36.33 | pavelm | at 4.1V |
| 23:36.44 | pavelm | balrog: openmoko currently sleeps with backlight on ;-) |
| 23:37.06 | SpeedEvil | Screen still on is that - asleep? |
| 23:37.13 | balrog-kun | more efficient compared to full running openmoko (because .125A may be good, but it's only two times less than fuly running) |
| 23:39.55 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - the CPU sucks in terms of powersaving. |
| 23:39.56 | SpeedEvil | You can't even put it in slow mode if you want the display to carry on working. |
| 23:39.56 | balrog-kun | my (ancient) palm PDA survives 2 months in idle, with RAM powered on |
| 23:39.56 | SpeedEvil | It should last a long time in suspend-RAM |
| 23:39.56 | balrog-kun | and only 4h fully up |
| 23:39.57 | Elrond | Part of the problem on the neo is the amplifier. ;-) |
| 23:40.05 | SpeedEvil | Pulling the speakers should sort that. |
| 23:40.29 | Elrond | It's connected directly to the battery... (*arg* Thinking about it, IT might drain the battery in runtime). |
| 23:40.37 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Tell the amplifiier to go off would be easier. ;-) |
| 23:40.40 | SpeedEvil | Pull the speakers, and it has nothing to really drain to. |
| 23:40.44 | SpeedEvil | That too. |
| 23:40.53 | *** join/#openmoko miip_ (n=miip@p54A57CD5.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:40.54 | pavelm | elrond: Amplifier? |
| 23:41.34 | SpeedEvil | The audio amplifier. |
| 23:41.35 | balrog-kun | gently turning off the amplifier is for sissies |
| 23:41.35 | balrog-kun | rip out the speakers |
| 23:41.35 | SpeedEvil | There have been suspicions that it's not properly turned off. |
| 23:41.47 | pavelm | speed: Phase 0 or phase 1? |
| 23:41.48 | Elrond | pavelm - stereo amplifier: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/LM4857 |
| 23:42.14 | Elrond | Both, I think. |
| 23:45.49 | Elrond | !ombug 556 |
| 23:45.51 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 556, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 23:45.51 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko(AT)robertmichel.de: After shutdown (mono) speaker is ticking like an analog watch |
| 23:45.52 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=556 |
| 23:47.16 | Elrond | and: |
| 23:47.18 | Elrond | !ombug 482 |
| 23:47.19 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 482, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 23:47.20 | cdbot2 | * * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: phone still consumes energy when powered off |
| 23:47.20 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=482 |
| 23:48.05 | Elrond | Not comment #1. This seems to affect p0 and p1. |
| 23:49.48 | Elrond | s/Not/Note/ |
| 23:51.21 | Elrond | And I guess, the gsm could also drain battery, as it seems to be also connected directly to the battery. :-| |
| 23:51.22 | wiml | is it maybe not telling the LM4857 to go into low power mode over I2C |
| 23:51.35 | Elrond | wiml - Probably. |
| 23:52.07 | Elrond | But it also should do that in standby mode. ;) |
| 23:53.16 | wiml | yeah |
| 23:54.00 | pavelm | Ok, for phase 0... it should last 20 hours suspended, with screen off. |
| 23:54.22 | pavelm | Unfortunately, it will not be able to take calls in this mode :-(. But should be usable as a gps ;-) |
| 23:54.35 | Elrond | ;o) |
| 23:54.47 | Elrond | pavelm - BTW: Does the backlight kernel problem also affect Bv04? |
| 23:55.12 | pavelm | ...actually, it has ~4h of "run" life -- where you can really use the gps. |
| 23:55.19 | pavelm | elrond: I did not test that. |
| 23:56.01 | Elrond | pavelm - I suspect that, because I looked at the backlight driver... and there is no Bv03/04 specific bit in it. I do not even understand, why it does not work any more. |
| 23:56.45 | Elrond | (crazy day... python-->gps does not work, backlight kernel thing looks like "no bug"... Stupid normal work.) |
| 23:58.33 | pavelm | elrond: phase1 kernel on phase1 openmoko => backlight control works ok. I'd prefer not to flash my phase1 for now -- I'd like to keep it working. |
| 23:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko ar2 (i=familia@201.244.109.24) |
| 23:59.47 | Elrond | pavelm - dfu allows to copy the kernel from the phone to the host. :-) |
