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| 02:22.39 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]] |
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| 03:18.11 | aloril | counter_msg http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) |
| 03:18.11 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) |
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| 03:31.46 | aloril | still week left in May, should be enough to produce & test & make available for ordering (or at least first 2 ones) |
| 03:32.01 | aloril | or at least for first one ;-) (supposedly takes a day) |
| 03:33.50 | aloril | that is of course "everything goes well" -scenario |
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| 04:02.43 | bmidgley | if I change bluez-utils.inc, will bluez-utils get rebuilt by mokomakefile |
| 04:02.50 | bmidgley | or do I need to clean something out |
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| 04:22.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] [[User:2luxe]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 04:35.24 | chreekat | what are the last numbers displayed on the counter? |
| 04:35.27 | chreekat | counter |
| 04:35.28 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 15:42:26 (3.654 +-3.7 days) (1272;212) |
| 04:35.32 | chreekat | the 1272;212 |
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| 04:36.14 | aloril | chreekat: see http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter#About_counter |
| 04:36.27 | chreekat | aloril: ah, oops, hadn't scrolled to the bottom |
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| 04:56.58 | Ohmm | Hello everyone |
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| 05:06.27 | guaqua | haven't seen him here |
| 05:06.49 | guaqua | or maybe he is, but hasn't been taking part in the conversation |
| 05:08.00 | Ohmm | I understand, thank you.. my voip provider wont let me call out to taiwan.. hehe so trying an alternative method :) |
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| 05:12.36 | aloril | sean did visit here twice I think, second time talked shortly too |
| 05:13.07 | Ohmm | ok, i'll find him somehow :) |
| 05:17.14 | guaqua | if you really have to get a hold of hime you probably should e-mail him |
| 05:17.31 | Ohmm | we have been keeping in touch for the last little while actually, its just he had personally requested that I contact him... having a challenge making an international call from here... :/ |
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| 05:29.40 | Rakshasa | morning |
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| 06:19.52 | gasofred | Hi, I've download and compile qemu-neo1973, but after execute the flash.sh, what script should I use to start the qemu? |
| 06:19.52 | aloril | gasofred: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 06:23.46 | gasofred | Hi, I've download and compile qemu-neo1973, after execute the flash.sh, what script should I use to start the qemu? |
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| 07:01.32 | dottedmag | virtuoso: ÎÁÓÞ£Ô wmii'ÝÉËÏ×: * John-Galt holds to his contention that sleep is for suckers |
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| 07:14.51 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 07:20.10 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:38.16 | hrw | morning |
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| 08:44.23 | Fletch_work | counter |
| 08:44.23 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 13:37:58 (3.568 +-3.6 days) (1273;212) |
| 08:44.54 | pvanhoof | mickey|lunch, ping :) |
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| 09:33.29 | Stephmw | hey guys |
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| 09:40.38 | Stephmw | who headed Angstrom again? |
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| 09:59.16 | cheesy | counter |
| 09:59.16 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 13:00:32 (3.542 +-3.5 days) (1274;212) |
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| 10:01.33 | cheesy | the dazs are so long |
| 10:01.40 | cheesy | days |
| 10:02.51 | LuitvD | on this counter, some days take -48 hours :P |
| 10:03.14 | LuitvD | and some days come by twice :P |
| 10:04.44 | sparq | Anything interesting happen in the last couple of days? I've been trapped under a rock with a textbook for most of the week. |
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| 10:10.07 | Sufflope | counter |
| 10:10.07 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 12:55:06 (3.538 +-3.5 days) (1275;212) |
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| 12:12.18 | kiney_ | counter |
| 12:12.19 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 11:54:00 (3.496 +-3.5 days) (1276;212) |
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| 12:23.13 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2086 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: openmoko-dialer: use correct gsm event for when an outgoing call is rejected |
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| 12:26.25 | ar1 | helo/hello |
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| 12:52.11 | aloril | LuitvD: half of time is used for reducing uncertainty and another half for decreasing time |
| 12:54.54 | ewon | counter |
| 12:54.55 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 11:32:42 (3.481 +-3.5 days) (1277;212) |
| 12:55.44 | aloril | (and every day without news I consider it less probably for counter to be correct) |
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| 13:11.16 | bmidgley | no soundcards found! argh |
| 13:11.33 | bmidgley | I figured out how to build the bluetooth audio server in, how to route gsm to it... |
| 13:11.43 | bmidgley | and now the soundcard has disappeared entirely :( |
| 13:13.49 | XorA | bmidgley: oops forget about your email |
| 13:14.12 | bmidgley | ? |
| 13:14.48 | XorA | bmidgley: you are Brad? |
| 13:14.56 | bmidgley | yeah |
| 13:15.17 | bmidgley | oh about routing system audio to bluetooth? |
| 13:15.23 | XorA | bmidgley: then you sent me a mail about bluethooth stuff |
| 13:15.35 | bmidgley | ok |
| 13:15.45 | XorA | bmidgley: feel free to make new state files, audio system is out of my control now its in mainline |
| 13:16.31 | bmidgley | I could make one but I'll need to study how things work first |
| 13:16.39 | bmidgley | might be a guess |
| 13:17.28 | XorA | bmidgley: just grab the datasheet for 8753 |
| 13:17.59 | bmidgley | ok... |
| 13:18.27 | bmidgley | so it makes sense to call it "capturebluetooth.state"? |
| 13:18.42 | XorA | bmidgley: I named the orinigal states by random |
| 13:19.37 | nnpiggy | counte |
| 13:19.41 | nnpiggy | counter |
| 13:19.41 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 11:20:19 (3.472 +-3.5 days) (1278;212) |
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| 13:25.29 | bmidgley | XorA: ok |
| 13:26.20 | bmidgley | is there a workaround for broken audio in recent images? |
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| 13:30.29 | XorA | bmidgley: wait a minute Ive just realised what you said, a bluetooth to VOIP wouldnt go anywhere near the codec anyway |
| 13:30.40 | XorA | bmidgley: broken audio? works for me |
| 13:31.13 | bmidgley | XorA: my mokomakefile-built image when booting says "no soundcards found" |
| 13:32.11 | Elrond | bmidgley - What kernel do you use? |
| 13:32.46 | bmidgley | 2.6.21-1-moko10 |
| 13:32.49 | Elrond | .oO(I'll update the kernel wiki page this evening, I think) |
| 13:33.02 | Elrond | bmidgley - Built your own, or downloaded? |
| 13:33.14 | bmidgley | home built mokomakefile |
| 13:35.24 | Elrond | Hmm, assuming it's identical to the downloadbale kernel: You need to add the appropiate moudles to your rootfs _and_ modprobe them. |
| 13:35.45 | Rince | Hm. MokoMakefile stops with an error here. |
| 13:36.36 | Elrond | Rince - Works for me to the point that I get a arm cross compiler (which is all *I* need) |
| 13:37.02 | Rince | okay, my cc has a bug: |
| 13:37.15 | Rince | (gcc that is) |
| 13:37.25 | Rince | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:38.42 | hrw | Rince: Getötet... that tells everything... |
| 13:39.09 | hrw | or in other words - was ist getötet? |
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| 13:40.00 | Elrond | hrw - "killed" ;) |
| 13:40.25 | XorA | sounds like OOM |
| 13:40.28 | Rince | oom? |
| 13:40.33 | XorA | Out Of Memory |
| 13:40.34 | hrw | out of memory |
| 13:40.44 | Rince | hm |
| 13:41.12 | Elrond | XorA - Rince usually has more RAM than I (in my home box), so I don't think, it's OOM. |
| 13:41.40 | Rince | well, that machine has 1gb ram right now |
| 13:41.50 | Rince | free 350M |
| 13:41.51 | Elrond | I guessed right. ;) |
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| 13:42.03 | XorA | should be enough as long as you close the pr0n borwser :-) |
| 13:42.16 | Elrond | My box at home has 256MB. And arm-linux-gcc could happily built libc6. |
| 13:42.18 | Stephmw | XorA: hey, that's a vital work tool! |
| 13:42.21 | Rince | XorA: that is my mailserver; most of the ram is exim |
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| 13:42.24 | Stephmw | XorA: for err... working. |
| 13:42.40 | XorA | Stephmw: keyboard environment testing :-) |
| 13:42.43 | Rince | (or used by mailman/python) |
| 13:42.56 | Elrond | Rince - angua? |
| 13:43.01 | Rince | Elrond: angua is dead; luggage |
| 13:43.08 | Elrond | Yeah, right. ;-) |
| 13:43.09 | Rince | but you know that machine anyway :) |
| 13:44.29 | Elrond | It's 64bit, right (I usually don't care too much for arch ;o) ). In the past, openmoko did not like 64bit host machines. ;o) |
| 13:44.29 | Stephmw | XorA: it's a good way to practice ambidextry |
| 13:44.30 | XorA | everything apart from qemu should run fine on 64bit |
| 13:44.37 | bmidgley | Elrond: which modules do I need to add? we need this in the wiki :) |
| 13:45.01 | XorA | shouldnt need any audio is built into kernel |
| 13:45.01 | Elrond | bmidgley - I posted the list days ago... it's on my home box (which is off ;) ). |
| 13:45.15 | Elrond | XorA - No. audio is now in modules. ;-) |
| 13:45.30 | jeddy3_ | can anyone build qemu from mokomakefile? |
| 13:45.31 | Elrond | 4 or 5 modules. |
| 13:45.37 | XorA | Elrond: genius sounds like someone forgot to update the modules.conf files then |
| 13:46.02 | bmidgley | and the required modules should be in the default rootfs |
| 13:46.11 | bmidgley | shouldn't have to be copied over |
| 13:46.21 | Elrond | bmidgley - They are... for the bit older kernel-image. ;o) |
| 13:48.18 | Elrond | bmidgley - If you can wait 2 hours: I'm going home soon (want to buy some ice cream first), then I'll give you the list and put it on the wiki. |
| 13:48.18 | bmidgley | Elrond: excellent |
| 13:49.08 | Vegar | yes, do it |
| 13:49.12 | Vegar | do it now |
| 13:49.17 | Elrond | (I have it with me at work. ;) ) |
| 13:49.46 | mitsuhiko | new bad news i don't know so far? |
| 13:50.00 | Elrond | mitsuhiko - Huh, why? |
| 13:50.37 | mitsuhiko | just asking :) |
| 13:50.43 | mitsuhiko | i have a highlight on worse :) |
| 13:51.17 | Elrond | mitsuhiko - *lol* No new bad news. :-) |
| 13:51.50 | Elrond | bmidgley - Does the brightness control work on your Bv04? |
| 13:52.13 | bmidgley | Elrond: how does the brightness control work |
| 13:52.55 | Elrond | cd /sys/class/backlight/gta01-bl && echo 1000 >brightness |
| 13:53.20 | Elrond | (works only, if the backlight is already on) |
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| 14:00.50 | Elrond | Okay, I'm going home now. :-) |
| 14:01.00 | Elrond | 'll be back in two hours. |
| 14:02.26 | Rince | see you Elrond |
| 14:03.29 | bmidgley | Elrond: fwiw, brightness control doesn't work |
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| 14:08.00 | XorA | bmidgley: hmmm, modules are missing from rootfs |
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| 14:08.55 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2087 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): |
| 14:08.55 | CIA-23 | openmoko: openmoko-dialer: |
| 14:08.55 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Remove threads init from dialer-main.c |
| 14:08.56 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Update journal entry on incoming CLIP |
| 14:08.56 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Commit journal after incoming call |
| 14:16.14 | bmidgley | XorA: I'm not sure whether to file a bug or just document the workaround on the mokomakefile page |
| 14:16.16 | bmidgley | maybe both |
| 14:19.35 | XorA | bmidgley: file a bug |
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| 14:24.41 | aloril | (script) planet: Holger "zecke" Freyther: RSS Reader updates http://zecke.blogspot.com/2007/05/rss-reader-updates.html |
| 14:25.18 | ewon | counter |
| 14:25.18 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 10:47:31 (3.450 +-3.4 days) (1279;212) |
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| 14:56.25 | CoreDump|home | hi |
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| 15:06.00 | thomasg_ | yeah, now a on screen keyboard module is available for enlightenment dr17. I'm really looking forward to see e17 running on *my* neo (which I hopefully will own soon) |
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| 15:06.16 | guaqua | e17 would be way cool |
| 15:06.22 | guaqua | all that eyecandy ;) |
| 15:09.21 | SpeedEvil | Can enlightenment run on P100 class unaccellr1;2cate hardware though. |
| 15:09.33 | SpeedEvil | s/r.*a// |
| 15:11.33 | balrog-kun | yes it can |
| 15:12.01 | balrog-kun | *looking for an URL* |
| 15:13.02 | balrog-kun | dang, angstrom-distribution.org is not responding - but i've seen screenshots of e17 running on low end handhelds there |
| 15:14.29 | balrog-kun | ok, low-end compared to the Neo :-P |
| 15:15.50 | Vegar | is the neo lower than low-end? |
| 15:17.30 | Magon | Vegar: it is slower than slow |
| 15:17.39 | Vegar | oi |
| 15:17.41 | Vegar | ok* |
| 15:20.16 | balrog-kun | Vegar: it's very high-end |
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| 15:21.14 | balrog-kun | Neo hardware is pretty fast and has plenty of RAM compared to normal handhelds |
| 15:21.19 | Vegar | and yet it can't play full-screen video? |
| 15:21.36 | guaqua | it can |
| 15:21.40 | balrog-kun | who said it can't? |
| 15:22.02 | Vegar | I remember reading something about it in the wiki or on the mailinglists |
| 15:22.04 | guaqua | it just doesn't have a special chip to do it so it has to do it with the cpu |
| 15:22.35 | balrog-kun | what makes the Neo look like bad hardware is comparing it to PC hardware, and people do that a lot |
| 15:23.36 | guaqua | or comparing it to the very high end phones that cost double the amount a neo costs |
| 15:23.47 | SuN | Playing video in real time is one of the hardest things for a computer to do correctly, I guess. |
| 15:23.59 | SuN | Especially one that's < 300 MHz |
| 15:24.35 | Stephmw | well, it's not really the playing, it's the timely decoding and playback of split audio/video |
| 15:24.40 | ewon | my 6230i can play video |
| 15:24.43 | ewon | and it's a heap of shit |
| 15:24.52 | ewon | it just needs to be encoded correctly |
| 15:25.13 | SuN | Correctly being "very low quality" :) |
| 15:25.24 | hrw | wm_eddie: pxa255 with 160x160 screen iirc |
| 15:25.36 | ewon | SuN: it only has to fill the moko screen :) |
| 15:25.40 | SuN | I'm sure the Neo will be perfectly capable of playing a 160x120 3gp movie in full screen. |
| 15:25.47 | wm_eddie | 144MHz ARM. |
| 15:26.16 | SpeedEvil | It needs to do the expansion in hardware of course. |
| 15:26.36 | loufoque | what's 3gp ? |
| 15:26.39 | ewon | depends on the intruction set of the cpu |
| 15:26.47 | ewon | loufoque: video standard used on mobile phones quite a bit |
| 15:26.49 | balrog-kun | i believe Treo has an at least 320x320 screen |
| 15:26.50 | SpeedEvil | (from 160*120 to 320*240) the hardware handles 320*240 mode (on the neo) |
| 15:27.04 | wm_eddie | balrog-kun: not the Treo 600 |
| 15:27.15 | ewon | would be handy if there were some vectorised opcodes on the arm in the neo, but it's unlikely |
| 15:27.22 | balrog-kun | wm_eddie: ok, i see |
| 15:27.53 | loufoque | doesn't ARM have a few SIMD instructions? |
| 15:28.15 | ewon | I like vector programming |
| 15:28.21 | balrog-kun | xscale does, not generic ARM |
| 15:28.29 | SpeedEvil | However, playing 320*240 video even is possible on the class of CPU that the neo is. |
| 15:28.46 | SpeedEvil | It's broadly similar to a pentium 100. |
| 15:28.56 | SuN | Depends a lot on the encoding. |
| 15:28.59 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 15:29.00 | ewon | indeed |
| 15:29.06 | SuN | But mpeg1 should be possible. |
| 15:29.07 | SpeedEvil | You don't get h.264. |
| 15:29.09 | SuN | :) |
| 15:29.11 | SpeedEvil | mpeg1 is trivial. |
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| 15:29.24 | ewon | I presume 3gp is designed for computational economy |
| 15:29.26 | SpeedEvil | IIRC I've played 120*160 or so mpeg1 on a 486/75 |
| 15:29.30 | SpeedEvil | which is much slower. |
| 15:29.58 | loufoque | does the processor used in the neo even have a MMU ? |
| 15:30.05 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 15:30.10 | SpeedEvil | No FPU though. |
| 15:30.16 | SpeedEvil | If you mean memory managment |
| 15:30.23 | SpeedEvil | No MMXy stuff |
| 15:30.33 | ewon | it would need an MMu, or the kernel would have a hard time of it :) |
| 15:30.38 | SuN | No MMU = very tricky to run Linux. |
| 15:30.45 | SpeedEvil | You _can_ emulate an MMU. |
| 15:30.54 | SpeedEvil | Does rather slow things down of course. |
| 15:30.54 | loufoque | well, there is a version of linux for stuff without mmu |
| 15:30.57 | ewon | SpeedEvil: if you have the cycles, which we don't :) |
| 15:30.59 | SuN | Though people have tried it on the old palm dragonballs. |
| 15:31.40 | balrog-kun | loufoque: yeah but it doesn't do multitasking afaik and all programs need to be recompiled |
| 15:31.43 | ewon | I presume these people don't have girlfriends |
| 15:32.02 | balrog-kun | i.e. OE and all the standard distros wouldn't run |
| 15:32.49 | loufoque | wow, no FPU |
| 15:34.16 | ewon | question of cost I suppose |
| 15:34.27 | ewon | guess it's a phone, what do we need floats for :) |
| 15:34.32 | loufoque | doesn't GDK use doubles to calculate its rendering or stuff like that? |
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| 15:35.19 | SpeedEvil | You can do software FPU. |
| 15:35.24 | balrog-kun | i don't think it's a question of cost |
| 15:35.27 | balrog-kun | none of the popular arm SoCs has an fpu |
| 15:35.41 | balrog-kun | they would have to use something totally non-standard if theyu wanted FPU |
| 15:36.16 | loufoque | software FPU is slow |
| 15:36.25 | balrog-kun | and it would probably be a waste of space as the FPU would be mostly useless |
| 15:37.07 | SpeedEvil | You can do software FPU of course. |
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| 15:37.10 | Vegar | useless? |
| 15:38.35 | SpeedEvil | Comparatively useless. |
| 15:38.40 | SpeedEvil | Tehre is a tradeoff. |
| 15:38.48 | SpeedEvil | Silicon area/power consumption/features. |
| 15:38.59 | SpeedEvil | For a given clock speed, idle bits of the chip waste power. |
| 15:39.19 | SpeedEvil | If you delete the FPU, then the whole chip can go faster at the same power. |
| 15:41.26 | don-o | counter |
| 15:41.27 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 10:09:26 (3.423 +-3.4 days) (1280;212) |
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| 15:43.01 | ewon | the counter amuses me |
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| 15:48.40 | SuN | ewon: in that it is not really a counter but just a source of false hope? ;) |
| 15:49.43 | aloril | eventually it will be right (or there won't be Neo1973) |
| 15:49.45 | aloril | ;-) |
| 15:52.22 | SuN | :D |
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| 15:54.08 | SpeedEvil | !falsehope |
| 15:55.56 | don-o | if the confidence falls below 50/50, it might as well not report a date |
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| 16:20.35 | pjz | aloril: btw, thanks for making the counter toy :) |
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| 16:21.26 | aloril | pjz: welcome ;-) |
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| 16:27.24 | loufoque | aloril: how is the probability guess deduced? |
| 16:28.09 | aloril | just guessing ;-) |
| 16:28.43 | aloril | basically, less time left without any news -> more likely there are untold problems (see last 2007-05-10 run that didn't happen) |
| 16:29.09 | webjames | i bet we hear something on monday! if not the neo release, news of why - that would be fair |
| 16:29.21 | aloril | and other numbers are just gut feeling, if somebody has actual experience with hardware design/production and can produce better guesses: I would like to see those |
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| 16:31.42 | Stephmw | Elrond: hmm, looking at the packages, it doesn't add up to 7mb on disk that I can see. xserver-kdrive-fbdev is 445K, only the dbg version is 8.5MB... where does the extra size come from? |
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| 16:32.54 | CIA-23 | openmoko: 03thomas * r2088 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/ (25 files): |
| 16:32.54 | CIA-23 | openmoko: theme: |
| 16:32.54 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Remove unimplemented recolourable option |
| 16:32.54 | CIA-23 | openmoko: * Remove gtkwidget.png from being loaded in every GtkRcStyle |
| 16:37.42 | zecke | mickey|lunch: ping |
| 16:39.15 | aloril | also I think most here consider P1+ at June unlikely, also maybe same for mass market being at September (or this is impression I have gotten) |
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| 16:55.07 | kiney_ | counter |
| 16:55.08 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 09:32:36 (3.398 +-3.4 days) (1281;212) |
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| 17:01.33 | aloril2 | in latest mail about week ago Sean didn't sound very sure about May |
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| 18:00.17 | PBeck | hi |
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| 18:11.44 | LuitvD | aloril2: well... he still has 5 days to fix his prediction |
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| 18:12.02 | *** join/#openmoko herbyle (n=pascal@p57a53c0f.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:19.16 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:19.41 | aloril2 | LuitvD: a week if we count until last point in Earth moves to June |
| 18:20.24 | SpeedEvil | Are we sure that the fab is on earth time? |
| 18:20.37 | LuitvD | aloril2: true... though I expect it before that :P |
| 18:20.51 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: good question... |
| 18:20.56 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:21.14 | SpeedEvil | I'm betting it's due well before 7 venusian days. |
| 18:21.43 | LuitvD | is venusfaster or slower? |
| 18:21.58 | LuitvD | s/venus/venus' rotation/ |
| 18:22.12 | SpeedEvil | Venus has a rotation of some 270 earth days. |
| 18:22.16 | LuitvD | XD |
| 18:22.47 | LuitvD | then I think 'whithin 7 days' is a fair guess :P |
| 18:24.34 | LuitvD | wow, I've just found the notebook of my dreams... |
| 18:24.40 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-203-209.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 18:24.41 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 18:24.50 | aloril2 | SpeedEvil: hehe |
| 18:25.13 | SpeedEvil | The notebook of my dreams is basically like my current PC. |
| 18:25.22 | SpeedEvil | But with wifi. |
| 18:25.26 | SpeedEvil | laptop rather. |
| 18:25.39 | SpeedEvil | But with the ability for me to sit on it, and ideally roll it up. |
| 18:26.17 | LuitvD | the laptop/notebook of my dreams is actually a tablet pc :P |
| 18:26.25 | LuitvD | so I'm not sure what to call it |
| 18:27.40 | LuitvD | my ideal laptop: 12" widescreen (fair resolution), 1GB ram or more, AMD TL-50 or better, GeForce6100 graphics or better |
| 18:27.58 | SpeedEvil | I'm not that bothered about processor. |
| 18:28.01 | LuitvD | and the HP tx1127 is all of that, AND it's touchscreen |
| 18:28.10 | SpeedEvil | I'm not finding my PII/300 too slow for most stuff. |
| 18:28.45 | LuitvD | I do think 1GHz is too slow for my use |
| 18:29.17 | LuitvD | plus: tablet PC is a great feature :p |
| 18:30.41 | LuitvD | and 12.1" widescreen is the ideally portable laptop size... |
| 18:31.09 | Elrond | Good evening. |
| 18:31.28 | LuitvD | hi Elrond |
| 18:36.27 | SpeedEvil | I'm not sure. |
| 18:36.41 | SpeedEvil | I think roll-up, or folded is ideal display size. |
| 18:36.57 | Elrond | BTW: Any idea how one gets openembedded to show the compiler calls, while compiling? |
| 18:45.53 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 18:46.48 | Cyphi^ | Hey guys |
| 18:47.08 | Cray | Hi |
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| 18:57.19 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178074138.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:57.20 | woglinde | hi |
| 18:57.47 | *** join/#openmoko Zword_ (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:08.25 | webjames | LuitvD, SpeedEvil i'm looking at the T42 laptop |
| 19:08.26 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 19:09.30 | LuitvD | webjames: T42? |
| 19:09.44 | LuitvD | thinkpad |
| 19:09.48 | LuitvD | not? |
| 19:09.56 | webjames | yeah Toshiba thinkpad |
| 19:10.33 | LuitvD | isn't "Thinkpad" an IBM brand? |
| 19:10.56 | LuitvD | IBM or Lenovo |
| 19:11.13 | guaqua | thinkpad is ibm/lenovo |
| 19:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host86-152-202-89.range86-152.btcentralplus.com) |
| 19:11.32 | bmidgley | Elrond: you have that audio modules list? :) |
| 19:11.45 | webjames | LuitvD: i think you're right, IBM |
| 19:12.18 | LuitvD | webjames: toshiba has 'sattelite' and 'tecra' (old) |
| 19:12.31 | Mr_You | when I checked on openmoko last, it seemed like it wasn't close to being ready.. but I see images are available.. is it possible to run OpenMoko on x86 yet? |
| 19:12.33 | webjames | ..but anyway that what i'm going for, fairly fast and you can put 2gb of ram in it |
| 19:12.56 | bmidgley | My_You should be able to using qemu |
| 19:12.59 | bmidgley | haven't tried that |
| 19:13.07 | webjames | Mr_You: qemu is your answer |
| 19:13.14 | LuitvD | webjames: I'm going for a 12" MSI barebook, or 12" HP tablet pc, you can put 2GB in those babies too :) |
| 19:13.24 | Mr_You | I understand your comment, but no, I'm wondering if I can run it standalone on x86. |
| 19:13.38 | webjames | Mr_You: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Qemu#Manual_setup |
| 19:13.53 | balrog-kun | Mr_You: yes, it is possible to run OpenMoko on x86 |
| 19:13.57 | LuitvD | Mr_You: you can compile the programs for x68, if that's what you mean |
| 19:13.59 | balrog-kun | without an emulator too |
| 19:14.08 | LuitvD | s/x68/x86 |
| 19:14.32 | *** join/#openmoko jzs (n=jzs@217.116.232.184) |
| 19:14.38 | Mr_You | well I'm wondering if it could be used as an embedded OS for x86. |
| 19:14.57 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 19:15.05 | SpeedEvil | It's just another linux distribution. |
| 19:15.41 | Mr_You | and its been ported to other CPUs besides Arm or whatever? |
| 19:15.52 | balrog-kun | well written software needs no porting |
| 19:15.54 | Mr_You | OpenMoko linux kernel. |
| 19:16.00 | LuitvD | Mr_You: if you can get someone to add your embedded device to OE, then it's done in the blink of an eye |
| 19:16.02 | Mr_You | whatever |
| 19:16.06 | balrog-kun | no, the kernel is not a part of the distro |
| 19:16.12 | SpeedEvil | There is no openmoko kernel |
| 19:16.24 | SpeedEvil | openmoko is a _distribution_ like redhat, or debian. |
| 19:16.31 | Mr_You | with no kernel? |
| 19:16.33 | SpeedEvil | It's optimised for mobile phones is all. |
| 19:16.37 | LuitvD | there is the FIC Neo1973 kernel, on which openmoko can run |
| 19:16.39 | SpeedEvil | It uses the linux kernel. |
| 19:16.45 | Mr_You | I see. |
| 19:16.46 | balrog-kun | kernel is quite cross-platform and it runs very well on x86 already, not need to port anything |
| 19:17.10 | LuitvD | if you use OpenEZX to patch a vanilla kernel on a motorola phone, then that can run openmoko too |
| 19:17.16 | Mr_You | umm.. I'm assuming there are hardware specific tweaks to the Linux kernel for a mobile phone. |
| 19:17.24 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 19:17.31 | webjames | LuitvD: can't find much info on the barebook |
| 19:17.40 | Mr_You | LuitvD just answered my question somewhat. |
| 19:17.42 | LuitvD | webjames: it's X262 |
| 19:17.57 | LuitvD | s/X262/S262/ |
| 19:17.57 | balrog-kun | Mr_You: no, it's simply whether the kernel supports a given platform or not |
| 19:18.01 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-209-223.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 19:18.19 | LuitvD | Mr_You: on what device would you use it? |
| 19:19.23 | Mr_You | balrog: right.. thats what I'm asking, but I get it a little. |
| 19:19.27 | Mr_You | luitvD: laptop. |
| 19:19.48 | Mr_You | or a "ultra-mobile" |
| 19:20.04 | LuitvD | Mr_You: like an UMPC? |
| 19:20.42 | Mr_You | sorta, but really I'm just interested in a new OS that supports Java apps.. |
| 19:20.54 | Mr_You | thats low power. |
| 19:21.54 | webjames | LuitvD: have a look at this, http://www-307.ibm.com/pc/support/site.wss/document.do?sitestyle=lenovo&lndocid=MIGR-57838 |
| 19:22.03 | LuitvD | well, I think you'd have to wait a while for openmoko to be an option for that... the main target for now is to get it running and stable on the FIC Neo1973 |
| 19:23.08 | LuitvD | webjames: I'd still go for 12" , but that's my choice |
| 19:23.19 | LuitvD | webjames: what's the price of that T42? |
| 19:23.39 | webjames | LuitvD: yeah, spose it's more portable, going for around 300 |
| 19:24.31 | Mr_You | yeah SavaJe has been/is being ported to Linux.. and more than likely someone like Apple may provide what I'm looking for, but bloated OSs are getting on my nerves.. I'd like to eval a flash based 12"-13" LCD tablet-style, battery that last all day, mainly provide a browser, ssh/telnet, and remote desktop app. |
| 19:25.27 | Elrond | bmidgley - Ahh, wait a sec. |
| 19:25.45 | LuitvD | webjames: well, it's certainly not expensive, that thinkpad... guess a smaller device means a higher price... |
| 19:26.13 | webjames | LuitvD: yeah i guess |
| 19:26.13 | Elrond | bmidgley - snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753 snd-soc-s3c24xx-i2s snd-soc-s3c24xx snd-soc-wm8753 |
| 19:26.13 | LuitvD | though beyond 15,4" it gets more expensive :P |
| 19:26.13 | LuitvD | when bigger |
| 19:26.23 | Elrond | bmidgley - And do a modprobe for "snd-soc-neo1973-wm8753". |
| 19:26.27 | bmidgley | great thx |
| 19:27.06 | LuitvD | :P |
| 19:27.07 | woglinde | hehe |
| 19:27.12 | woglinde | there are only 3 or 4 |
| 19:27.17 | Mr_You | I also need an indoor/outdoor display. |
| 19:27.33 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: which laptop is that? a sony? |
| 19:27.33 | SpeedEvil | Toshiba 3110CT, re-celled with modern cells. |
| 19:27.38 | LuitvD | ah |
| 19:27.47 | Elrond | bmidgley - I'm updating the kernel wiki page now. |
| 19:28.02 | Stephmw | Mr_You: not openmoko related, but you might be interested in my recent proposal, http://thread.gmane.org/gmane.comp.java.openjdk.awt.devel/5 |
| 19:28.05 | LuitvD | refurbishing a battery is a good investment indeed |
| 19:28.11 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD |
| 19:28.25 | SpeedEvil | especially when the initial capacity was half of modern ones. |
| 19:28.30 | LuitvD | lol |
| 19:28.48 | LuitvD | did you change the charging circuitry too? |
| 19:29.03 | LuitvD | or wasn't that necessary? |
| 19:30.46 | Stephmw | Elrond: did you see my comment an hour or so ago? |
| 19:30.48 | Mr_You | Stephmw: sounds interesting. |
| 19:30.48 | Stephmw | Mr_You: add their lean JRE and it could do what you want... it's a big step up from J2ME |
| 19:30.53 | Elrond | Stephmw - About the 7MB, yes, basicly. Answer: This is the memory needed, which includes dynamic memory. "malloc". ;-) |
| 19:31.00 | Mr_You | Stephmw: they who? |
| 19:31.09 | Stephmw | Mr_You: Sun |
| 19:31.18 | Stephmw | Mr_You: Java7 and all that |
| 19:31.30 | Mr_You | ahh yeah cool |
| 19:31.40 | Stephmw | openjdk is their baby ;-) |
| 19:31.45 | Mr_You | Sun says they plan to port SavaJe to multiple archs. |
| 19:31.52 | Mr_You | err. JavaFX Mobile |
| 19:31.56 | Stephmw | Elrond: ok, but on disk it's just that 500kb binary? |
| 19:32.20 | Stephmw | yeah, although I'll wait to see that as a downloadable source bundle :) |
| 19:33.29 | Elrond | Stephmw - plus the shared libraries it links to. |
| 19:33.59 | Stephmw | Elrond: yeah, excluding font and auth, what else does it link? |
| 19:35.34 | Elrond | Stephmw - libz1, etc. |
| 19:38.16 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 19:44.25 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178194120.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:45.45 | Elrond | pH5 - I tried your hhtest.c on the Bv03. It only gives me a "00" :-( |
| 19:50.04 | pH5 | hi Elrond, same here. I just don't know if/how we can enable the GPS on the Bv3. |
| 19:50.18 | Elrond | pH5 - :-( |
| 19:51.01 | pH5 | Elrond: indeed :-( |
| 19:51.03 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178072051.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:52.02 | Elrond | pH5 - Do you have any info, if the gps chip could be damaged by trying various 0/1 trickeries on the on-off lines? |
| 19:53.50 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:54.57 | Elrond | bmidgley - See, if http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Prebuilt_kernel_images would have helped you, please. |
| 19:55.59 | pH5 | Elrond: no. I *believe* it won't be, but that's not what you asked :) |
| 19:57.18 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-203-209.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 19:57.44 | bmidgley | Elrond: great. I also created a bug and referred it |
| 20:00.08 | *** join/#openmoko andlo (n=andlo@cpe.atm2-0-1121035.0x50c69682.virnxx10.customer.tele.dk) |
| 20:01.52 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3ee3f801.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:06.21 | Elrond | bmidgley - You above edit ("should be copied from the generated module*.tgz file ") shouldn't be there. Check the paragraph before the Neo1973 specific one. |
| 20:06.56 | Elrond | bmidgley - And the rootfs has prebuild modules, just for the wrong second-last kernel revision. ;o) |
| 20:07.27 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@5ac62f09.bb.sky.com) |
| 20:09.03 | *** part/#openmoko wm_eddie (n=wm_eddie@icoro.wm-eddie.info) |
| 20:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:11.39 | *** part/#openmoko andlo (n=andlo@cpe.atm2-0-1121035.0x50c69682.virnxx10.customer.tele.dk) |
| 20:13.57 | *** join/#openmoko calvin_ (i=calvin@nat/novell/x-411a10096ea81cc7) |
| 20:17.46 | bmidgley | Elrond: when I build images using mokomakefile I get matching rootfs modules and kernel |
| 20:19.55 | Elrond | bmidgley - Ahh. :) |
| 20:21.06 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:21.27 | Elrond | Hi koen! :-) |
| 20:22.47 | *** join/#openmoko koen_ (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:25.41 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Kernel]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Hardware:AGPS]] |
| 20:26.37 | *** join/#openmoko atla_ (n=atla@p3ee3e1ec.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 20:51.28 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@252.pool85-50-102.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 20:51.38 | Mandarino | when when? xD |
| 20:53.43 | balrog-kun | they were being sold last week and were all sold out, you're late |
| 20:54.07 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178123136.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:55.15 | Mandarino | xDDDDDDDDDDDD |
| 20:56.14 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-104-196.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 20:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 20:57.10 | pavelm | Hello, everyone. |
| 20:57.19 | woglinde | hi pavelm |
| 20:57.19 | bkuhn | Hello |
| 20:58.41 | *** join/#openmoko homyx (n=homyx@ppp-88-217-20-208.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 20:59.36 | Elrond | Hi pavelm! :-) |
| 21:00.17 | pavelm | Hello, Elrond. Did the python finish compiling? |
| 21:02.23 | Elrond | pavelm - Not yet. ;-) gcc compiles a second time just as we talk. ;o) |
| 21:02.23 | pavelm | Elrond: Ouch, gcc is going to take a while :-( |
| 21:02.23 | pavelm | Is there any good gps software for openmoko? |
| 21:02.24 | pavelm | I guess I should try to run gpsdrive? |
| 21:03.09 | Elrond | I don't know any good gps base software. |
| 21:03.18 | Elrond | I'm trying to the the gps chip on the Bv03 up... |
| 21:03.43 | pavelm | elrond: Get old enough patches -- it should just work in some historical version :-) |
| 21:04.09 | Elrond | pavelm - Of the kernel, or what? |
| 21:05.04 | pavelm | elrond: Old enough kernel patches, yes. |
| 21:05.43 | Elrond | I think, the old patches are even more buggy. |
| 21:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko Cray (n=vhgitca@88-214-73-102.dialup.umc.net.ua) |
| 21:18.37 | bmidgley | Elrond: gpsdrive is about all there is and the UI is a wreck |
| 21:19.15 | koen | bmidgley: maemo-mapper |
| 21:19.23 | bmidgley | I LOVE maemomapper |
| 21:19.42 | bmidgley | could it be ported? |
| 21:20.13 | koen | http://home.tal.org/%7Emilang/n770/maemo-mapper-desktop-20061114-001.patch |
| 21:20.30 | koen | angstrom already has it in the feeds: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=maemo-mapper-nohildon |
| 21:20.32 | bmidgley | on my n800 I just got it working with US topo maps... very nice |
| 21:20.44 | koen | once hildon-1 matures we could even use the hildon version |
| 21:22.20 | bmidgley | koen: who maintains bluez-utils.inc |
| 21:22.57 | koen | in svn or OE? |
| 21:23.11 | koen | the one in OE has been reviewed by marcel |
| 21:23.12 | bmidgley | whatever mokomakefile gave me... |
| 21:23.19 | koen | and rewritten for 3.11 |
| 21:23.25 | koen | oh, right |
| 21:23.39 | bmidgley | can we add --enable-audio there |
| 21:23.46 | bmidgley | so I can use it unmodified |
| 21:23.56 | koen | my eyes glaze over when someone mentions 'mokomakefile' |
| 21:24.32 | bmidgley | and I've cheated by using it such that I don't understand what is going on behind the scenes :( |
| 21:24.59 | koen | If you use OE.dev you get bluez-utils 3.11 which has --enable-audio by default :) |
| 21:25.16 | koen | http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/bluez/bluez-utils_3.11.bb |
| 21:26.19 | pavelm | Is there easy way to get maemo mapper / gpsdrive on openmoko? |
| 21:26.52 | pavelm | ...I guess I could just use the "debian/arm in the chroot" trick I do on zaurus... |
| 21:27.33 | balrog-kun | if it's opensource you can just run it normally |
| 21:28.25 | koen | balrog-kun: some people have trouble typing "ipkg install bash gpsdrive" and install a debian chroot to cover up that flaw |
| 21:28.45 | pavelm | koen: Is that really as easy as ipkg install gpsdrive? |
| 21:29.05 | pavelm | koen: on current openmoko? I did not see gpsdrive in "applications" list. |
| 21:30.26 | Elrond | mokomakefile% find . -iname '*gpsdrive*' |
| 21:30.26 | Elrond | ./openembedded/packages/gpsdrive |
| 21:30.47 | Elrond | "make build-package-gpsdrive" should do the trick. |
| 21:30.56 | Elrond | ... for mokomakefile. |
| 21:31.23 | pavelm | elrond: Yes, after finding 7 free GB and few days of compiling, right? |
| 21:31.32 | pavelm | elrond: debian in chroot is easier, I guess. |
| 21:31.38 | koen | why do people find "make build-package-gpsdrive" easier than "bitbake gpsdrive"? |
| 21:32.14 | Philippe | koen: bitbake sounds like magic.... make is something people know |
| 21:32.15 | MacNorth | because it's (slightly) more documented |
| 21:32.40 | koen | MacNorth: that is actually nonsense |
| 21:32.58 | MacNorth | oh? there's a bitbake page on the wiki? |
| 21:33.12 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 21:33.14 | koen | MacNorth: there's a complete fricking bitbake manual |
| 21:33.15 | Elrond | koen - Because for "bitbake xxx" zu work, you have to have the right environment variables setup. ;-) |
| 21:33.32 | mwester | It covers bitbake, it doesn't really cover the OE recipes. |
| 21:33.56 | MacNorth | bitbake as tool may be well documented, but in relation to OM, not so much |
| 21:35.03 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 21:35.19 | koen | 129 pages of documentation how to use bitbake and OE |
| 21:35.30 | koen | minus table of contents |
| 21:35.31 | Elrond | koen - BTW: Do you know of your head, how one tells OE/bitbake to be more chatty at "do_compile" time? |
| 21:35.39 | koen | -D |
| 21:35.44 | zecke | bitbake -DDD |
| 21:36.05 | zecke | strace -f bitbake -DDD is doing wonders ;) |
| 21:36.12 | Elrond | ;o) |
| 21:36.31 | Elrond | There's no variable I can set in local.conf? ;) |
| 21:36.40 | zecke | no |
| 21:37.12 | koen | for people without access to google: http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ http://www.openembedded.org/user-manual |
| 21:37.41 | guaqua | koen: :D |
| 21:37.51 | zecke | koen: that reminds me multi threading and the task dependencies are not yet documented |
| 21:38.08 | mwester | which is the item currently giving me trouble :) |
| 21:38.16 | mwester | (task dependencies, that is) |
| 21:38.18 | koen | zecke: and openmoko is still using a stoneage bitbake without that |
| 21:38.20 | Elrond | koen - google usually doesn't like me. It always tells me to buy new bitbake pr0n or so. ;o) |
| 21:38.29 | koen | zecke: so no trouble pasting the docs here ;) |
| 21:38.56 | zecke | koen: you have heard about our plans to raise money to make you more polite? |
| 21:39.11 | zecke | koen: my proposal for buying drugs wasn't accepted |
| 21:39.48 | Philippe | zecke: more Leffe 9 for Koen should be able to solve that issue |
| 21:39.50 | koen | I'm polite to people with a clue (e.g. googling before trying to waste my time) |
| 21:40.28 | zecke | Philippe: yeah, and we need to hire a nurse to feed it to him |
| 21:40.41 | koen | but since the subclass of people called 'users' never have heard of 'searching' or 'google' I might seem impolite |
| 21:40.50 | zecke | Philippe: I fear he will just code more php stuff if we do so... |
| 21:40.51 | SpeedEvil | the GSM modem on the neo can do FAX? |
| 21:40.57 | Philippe | zecke: and give him massages... |
| 21:41.09 | zecke | ;) |
| 21:41.20 | Philippe | sometimes people are even to lazy to read the error output... |
| 21:41.29 | koen | output? |
| 21:41.31 | koen | what's that? |
| 21:41.53 | koen | is that the thing I paste into IRC without reading? |
| 21:41.56 | Philippe | koen something like arm-linux-gcc: command not found |
| 21:41.58 | balrog-kun | SpeedEvil: i think it should be able to do that because FAX calls are just normal calls |
| 21:42.24 | balrog-kun | modem support shouldn't be needed for FAXes |
| 21:42.39 | *** join/#openmoko Zword (n=Zword@bos94-3-82-226-234-106.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:43.08 | balrog-kun | although i may be talking out of my arse now |
| 21:44.41 | MacNorth | hmmm..... no obvious google hits for 'bitbake example', 'bitbake primer', 'bitbake quick start', or 'bitbake tutorial' though 'bitbake hello world' gets one point. searching with make in place of bitbake yeilds better clicking |
| 21:46.16 | balrog-kun | we don't need no stinking examples :) |
| 21:46.34 | MacNorth | not when koen's around :-P |
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| 21:54.59 | billl_ | counter |
| 21:54.59 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 50%) P1: 3 days 07:02:40 (3.294 +-3.3 days) (1282;213) |
| 21:56.11 | pavelm | Are there really planes to ship phase1 in 3 days? |
| 21:56.15 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 21:56.18 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 21:56.21 | SpeedEvil | The counter lies. |
| 21:56.40 | SpeedEvil | There has been no announcement since the last 'we have the bits at the factory' post |
| 21:56.57 | MacNorth | yeah, it was just two weeks + 10 may |
| 21:57.13 | MacNorth | and round up to the following weekend |
| 22:01.29 | pavelm | ...actually, hardware seems ready... |
| 22:03.25 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200199063014.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 22:03.44 | SpeedEvil | Do you have info? Or have you heard of results of the run that was to be started. |
| 22:05.08 | pavelm | speed: I have phase1 machine on my table, and it seems pretty much working. So hardware _design_ seems ok. But I know nothing about production issues. |
| 22:07.39 | SpeedEvil | Ah. Numerous issues might delay getting working neos in boxes, even if they have the bits. |
| 22:09.07 | pavelm | Question... I guess I'm quite confused about arm 'architecture'... |
| 22:09.23 | pavelm | ...mainly because there seems to be at least arm/oabi, arm/eabi, and arm/bigendian. |
| 22:09.27 | Vegar | could this be used to speed up the boot time of the neo? http://www.linux.com/article.pl?sid=06/04/13/173227 |
| 22:09.28 | pavelm | ...openmoko is arm/eabi, right? |
| 22:10.01 | pavelm | speed: well, page in wiki would be nice ;-). |
| 22:10.20 | pavelm | ...is kernel<->user interface same in arm/oabi + arm/eabi? |
| 22:10.39 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: It depends on the bottleneck. If stuff is busy-waiting, then yes. |
| 22:10.48 | Vegar | good point |
| 22:10.57 | SpeedEvil | Vegar: If it's doing I/O, or CPU stuff, then no. |
| 22:11.06 | pavelm | vegar: probably not; paralel boot helps when you have delays from seek. |
| 22:11.13 | pavelm | vegar: we are probably cpu-limitied. |
| 22:11.25 | pavelm | speed: so what is the rest of the song? |
| 22:11.26 | Vegar | that's what I feared |
| 22:12.01 | SpeedEvil | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dem_Bones |
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| 22:22.48 | Philippe | Vegar: IO and CPU are quite quickly a bottleneck on HW like the neo |
| 22:23.37 | Philippe | You need to read from flash and decompress the jffs2 stuff. And only then you can start to excute stuff. |
| 22:24.03 | Philippe | And if flash and RAM are on the same bus it only gets worse |
| 22:24.06 | balrog-kun | one of IO or CPU is the bottleneck on practically any machine i have used :) |
| 22:24.17 | SpeedEvil | user |
| 22:24.26 | SpeedEvil | Almost always the real bottleneck. |
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| 22:25.41 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Guitar_Tuning]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Kernel]] |
| 22:26.22 | SpeedEvil | I thought they sucked at low powers though |
| 22:26.26 | SpeedEvil | oops |
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| 22:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko happycube (n=cpage@netblock-68-183-40-90.dslextreme.com) |
| 22:40.36 | pavelm | Okay, I should get some sleep. Bye bye. |
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| 23:33.00 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting perhaps late May. <> Mass market in September. |