| 00:04.23 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-167-23.cust.wildblue.net) |
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| 00:34.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03stefan * r2032 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-startup/ (ChangeLog src/openmoko-panel-startup.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 00:34.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-05-19 Stefan Schmidt <stefan@openmoko.org> |
| 00:34.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/openmoko-panel-startup.c: |
| 00:34.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (show_hourglass): |
| 00:34.12 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (hide_hourglass): |
| 00:34.14 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (monitor_event_func): |
| 00:34.15 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (applet_main): |
| 00:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
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| 01:51.09 | Richard | Hi, Is there someone developing openmoko in shanghai,china? |
| 02:08.24 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
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| 02:19.16 | bluelightning | hmm, that's weird... the task manager bar appeared at the top of the screen this time |
| 02:21.09 | balrog-kun | happened to me a couple of times too |
| 02:21.35 | balrog-kun | other things also work randomly (desktop backgrounf and the task manager background, some top bar applets) |
| 02:21.46 | bluelightning | it's also not having much luck getting on the gsm network :( |
| 02:21.48 | balrog-kun | i've seen the same happen under Familiar |
| 02:22.00 | balrog-kun | on other ARM devices |
| 02:22.07 | bluelightning | annoyingly that seemed to be working before I reflashed |
| 02:22.20 | bluelightning | (the network thing) |
| 02:22.35 | bluelightning | at least the dialer doesn't crash on making a call now though |
| 02:26.40 | alphaone | bluelightning: That's the new bar? The one that looks nice, or are you using an older version? |
| 02:28.24 | *** join/#openmoko alphatwo (n=alphaone@134.169.172.64) |
| 02:31.11 | alphaone | bluelightning: Do you have some way of reproducing that bug? |
| 02:31.16 | *** join/#openmoko jamesbeebop (n=jcb1710@dpc6746180134.direcpc.com) |
| 02:31.41 | bluelightning | alphaone: I don't think so, it just did it once on boot... I'm rebooting now and I imagine it will not do it this time |
| 02:31.52 | bluelightning | I imagine it has something to do with the order that apps are loading |
| 02:32.07 | alphaone | I think it could be related to the footer starting too early sometimes. |
| 02:32.12 | bluelightning | yeah |
| 02:32.27 | bluelightning | yep it went in the right place this time |
| 02:32.48 | bluelightning | (this is with the 20070517192145 image) |
| 02:33.40 | alphaone | bluelightning: Maybe you could play around with the script that starts the apps a little and see if it happens more/less often if you move it back in the startup process. |
| 02:33.54 | alphaone | Ah, okay. Then the footer still looks strange. |
| 02:34.04 | bluelightning | alphaone: ok |
| 02:34.15 | alphaone | I fixed that a couple of hours ago. |
| 02:34.44 | alphaone | bluelightning: Thanks. If you find something significant please file a bug. |
| 02:35.44 | alphaone | good night |
| 02:35.47 | bluelightning | night |
| 02:37.09 | balrog-kun | alphaone: you can reproduce it in qemu, it happens every 1/10 times in my experience |
| 02:37.36 | DukeOfURL | \ |
| 02:37.39 | balrog-kun | and the bottom bar also changes background pattern randomly |
| 02:37.51 | bluelightning | argh no sshd running in this image :/ |
| 02:37.59 | bluelightning | or even installed |
| 02:38.00 | bluelightning | wtf |
| 02:39.46 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2033 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/gta01-kernel_2.6.bb: update default kernel to 2.6.21.1 |
| 02:42.06 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2034 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/defconfig-2.6.21.1-fic-gta01: enable GTA01 backlight and HXD8 light sensor driver |
| 02:43.46 | bmidgley | bluelightning: i've noticed no gsm working but i'm also disappointed bluetooth won't come up |
| 02:44.48 | bmidgley | i tried the 5/17 image and also a custom image |
| 02:47.12 | bluelightning | bmidgley: things still seem to be rather broken atm |
| 02:47.59 | bmidgley | yeah everybody is so uptight about hardware release schedules when there's so much more to the story |
| 02:48.30 | bmidgley | i'm trying to help with the bluetooth audio |
| 02:48.40 | bluelightning | I'd love to help but I'm not really sure where to start... ie, who is working on what... |
| 02:48.46 | bmidgley | i also hacked together a gps repeater over bluetooth that would be nice |
| 02:48.48 | bluelightning | some "junior jobs" would probably be useful |
| 02:49.03 | bluelightning | cool :) |
| 02:49.03 | bmidgley | (i hacked it together on gumstix) |
| 02:50.11 | *** join/#openmoko ocibu (n=littlej@cpe-70-124-64-240.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 02:50.21 | bluelightning | ah, silly me, of course no sshd, it's dropbear or similar |
| 02:50.31 | bmidgley | until power management works, it always has to be tethered |
| 02:50.33 | bmidgley | not as fun |
| 02:50.43 | bluelightning | yeah that is a problem |
| 02:51.33 | bmidgley | I hope they put a umts radio in the next rev. i don't care so much about wifi |
| 02:52.48 | bluelightning | I'm just glad bluetooth made it in :) |
| 02:53.53 | bmidgley | oh yes that would be a dealbreaker |
| 02:54.27 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_OpenMoko_working_on_host_with_Xephyr]] |
| 02:54.47 | bmidgley | my 1gb card is working... would be nice to try some of the bigger cards |
| 02:55.46 | bluelightning | hmm, I haven't even tried that yet |
| 02:56.09 | bmidgley | you have to modprobe s3cmci |
| 02:58.21 | bluelightning | hmm, it tells me "invalid argument" when I try to mount it |
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| 03:02.03 | bmidgley | vfat is not being built into the modules |
| 03:02.11 | bmidgley | i had the same problem until i formatted it ext3 :) |
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| 03:07.52 | empty_mind | whn will the phone arrive ? |
| 03:09.12 | bmidgley | counter |
| 03:09.12 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: a week, a day 08:51:03 (8.369 +-5.0 days) (1217;209) |
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| 03:42.18 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting perhaps late May. <> Mass market in September. |
| 03:45.01 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-a519553ada0315ba) |
| 04:19.30 | mrcucumber | Does OpenMoko use GPE? |
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| 04:35.54 | crackfiend | "Perhaps late May"... pshhh (the sound of vapor). Man I wish these guys were a little more upfront about it. I'm betting that I won't see one until at least July at this rate |
| 04:38.33 | rwhitby | "a little more upfront about it" - heh, what an idiot. |
| 04:39.13 | roh | hrr... crack, yeah.. |
| 04:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
| 05:09.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2035 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: put config.tmp into the correct directory (board/neo1973/gta01 rather board/neo1973) |
| 05:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2036 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: |
| 05:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: u-boot DFU trailer support for bootloader partition. This prevents the |
| 05:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: flashing of data into the bootloader partition, that is either not a u-boot |
| 05:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: image, or not for the matching device and/or hardware revision. |
| 05:12.03 | CIA-24 | openmoko: To achieve this, we add a 16byte trailer at the end of u-boot.bin. The trailer |
| 05:12.05 | CIA-24 | openmoko: can be added using 'tools/mkudfu'. A new makefile target for u-boot.udfu can |
| 05:12.07 | CIA-24 | openmoko: do this for you. |
| 05:16.55 | aloril | well.. if this was ordinary commercial product we would not hear about these delays and would instead get buggy product at September |
| 05:19.35 | billl_ | true |
| 05:20.09 | billl_ | question is, when is the optimal time |
| 05:20.21 | billl_ | too late and you miss out on the resources of others that would help |
| 05:20.36 | billl_ | too early and the community gets frustrated and leaves |
| 05:20.44 | billl_ | hopefully that day is soon ;-) |
| 05:21.02 | billl_ | (the release day) |
| 05:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko tholin (n=tholin@85.8.6.155.se.wasadata.net) |
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| 05:27.48 | roh | billl_ we are somehow bothered and frustraded ourselves by all the delays, but we are really trying to give you as much information as possible at the current time. |
| 05:28.10 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2037 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (4 files): make smdk2440, smdk2443, hxd8 and gta02 support work with new udfu handling |
| 05:29.32 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2038 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-mokoversion.patch: update to moko9 to reflect udfu handling |
| 05:29.43 | billl_ | oh, I'm not frustrated |
| 05:30.00 | billl_ | it's a complicated widget |
| 05:30.07 | billl_ | new ground is being covered |
| 05:30.23 | roh | billl_ its on the way, it just needs some time. its a mobile phone, with a immensive packaging density and a really freaking complex pcb which takes a lot more time than everybody i know of who does hardware engineering would have imagined. given all this were fairly confident that we will be able to deliver some stuff soon |
| 05:30.29 | billl_ | if it was opensource software only, I'd say no schedule at all |
| 05:30.35 | billl_ | it's done when it's done |
| 05:30.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2039 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: prefer udfu to regular bin images |
| 05:30.45 | billl_ | but having a hardware pipeline kinda forces things |
| 05:31.10 | roh | billl_ yeah.. thats how i like it. do it right, no matter if it takes longer... sadly you cannot do hardware that way ;) |
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| 05:34.26 | billl_ | right |
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| 05:53.55 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2040 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: get_board_rev() is not universally present, this patch fixes the dfu dependency on it |
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| 06:39.27 | pjz | billl_: as soon as 1) the hardware is stable and 2) the software can be updated other than via JTAG, ship it! |
| 06:40.01 | pjz | roh: as soon as 1) the hardware is stable and 2) the software can be updated other than via JTAG, ship it! |
| 06:40.09 | pjz | then you get maximal developer time |
| 06:40.38 | pjz | you MUST of course make it clear that the software is alpha quality |
| 06:41.44 | LaF0rge | pjz: this is exactly what we are doing ;) |
| 06:42.47 | LaF0rge | pjz: the problem is you only learn about all possible hardware bugs as the software evolves ;) |
| 06:45.25 | tholin | how much can you do without a jtag. Is it required if you only want to develop some high level stuff and don't care about the low level stuff or the hardware. |
| 06:50.31 | rwhitby | tholin: not required for anything above the bootloader |
| 06:51.20 | rwhitby | (can be handy for debugging stuff, but not required to operate or reflash above bootloader, and you can even reflash bootloader without it if you're careful) |
| 06:51.56 | tholin | sounds good. Then I get one when or if I need one. |
| 06:52.16 | tholin | or I could just borrow my friends. |
| 06:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Pander]] [[ChangeLog]] [[USB_Product_IDs]] [[Wish_List]] |
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| 07:42.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r2041 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410_udc.patch: |
| 07:42.28 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * fix STALL case, i.e. actually stall the USB bus if usb stack asks the |
| 07:42.29 | CIA-24 | openmoko: driver to send a stall packet. This also means that dfu-util will return a |
| 07:42.29 | CIA-24 | openmoko: proper error message in case DFU has some error (such as 'file not targeted for |
| 07:42.29 | CIA-24 | openmoko: this device') and recovers properly after it. |
| 07:42.31 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * use our own debug macros to prevent reentrance (Closes: #420) |
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| 08:05.15 | PBeck | tag |
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| 08:55.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Pander]] |
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| 10:56.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 11:56.28 | buz | osnews has an article about logfs |
| 11:58.04 | buz | http://www.osnews.com/comment.php?news_id=17939 |
| 12:05.03 | koen | logfs is the future |
| 12:05.11 | koen | jffs2 can't do >4GB |
| 12:05.21 | koen | and takes eons to mount |
| 12:15.15 | buz | no wonder it takes forever if you scan the whole fs at mount |
| 12:17.00 | koen | right |
| 12:17.01 | xkr47 | :) |
| 12:17.10 | koen | that also explains why 'fsck.jffs2' doesn't exist |
| 12:17.11 | xkr47 | wonder when logfs will be ready |
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| 12:36.33 | Kero | openmoko uses jffs2 for now, no? |
| 12:37.10 | koen | seems that way |
| 12:37.40 | koen | yaffs2 is turned on in the defconfig, but I wouldn't dare to use that |
| 12:38.12 | Kero | but on an always-on device, who needs reboots? :) I think the mount-time is not too bad. |
| 12:38.13 | CoreDump|home | !lart openmoko bugzilla |
| 12:38.29 | zecke|study | CoreDump|home: hey, it is debian stable |
| 12:38.39 | CoreDump|home | zecke|study: it is ancient |
| 12:38.53 | CoreDump|home | oe bugzilla == perfect =) |
| 12:39.38 | mjr | how long is the mount time on the neo, btw? |
| 12:39.42 | zecke|study | I don't like bugzilla 3.0 it looks unpolished |
| 12:40.55 | CoreDump|home | it is easier to work with with 3rd-party apps |
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| 12:42.26 | tholin | I'm more interested in the total boot time of the neo |
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| 12:43.49 | tholin | My current nokia 3330 boots in 1 sec. |
| 12:44.06 | tholin | It needs that time to heat up it's vacuum tubes I think |
| 12:45.38 | buz | if qemu is any indication, boot time takes forever |
| 12:46.09 | zecke|study | buz: no indication but OE's boot-time is bad and it is something that needs to be optimized |
| 12:46.33 | buz | so how long does a real neo take? |
| 12:46.56 | zecke|study | i didn't measure it, but it can and should be optimized |
| 12:47.08 | buz | more like 30s or 2min? |
| 12:47.19 | buz | 30s is acceptable for me, but much more is not |
| 12:48.02 | zecke|study | see you use words like acceptable for a not yet finished product. I don't feel like answering such questions |
| 12:48.40 | buz | well in order to finish a product you'd usually have some target values |
| 12:49.57 | zecke|study | buz: well take a look at the celf wiki and see what is possible |
| 12:56.38 | tholin | which stance does the openmoko project take on propritary formats? Will mp3 decoding work out of the box? |
| 12:59.09 | CoreDump|home | buz: the current P1 phone w/ default P1 image takes 1:45m from power-on to desktop |
| 12:59.23 | buz | thx ;) |
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| 13:00.24 | CoreDump|home | it is no indication of the finished product of course =) As zecke|break said, there is a lot of room for optimisation |
| 13:04.56 | buz | well at least it's not THAT much off |
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| 13:06.01 | CoreDump|home | but who reboots his phone anyway? apm suspend/resume is very fast |
| 13:06.17 | buz | well occasionally people turn them off |
| 13:06.37 | buz | and definitely when the battery is empty ;) |
| 13:07.38 | zecke|break | ~botmail for koen page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~zecke/autobuild-openmoko.tar.gz |
| 13:15.15 | guaqua | tholin: good question. mp3 support - anyone? |
| 13:17.19 | tholin | the user could manually add support if need be. |
| 13:17.43 | tholin | But my grandmother could probably not do it herself... because she is dead. |
| 13:18.02 | unknown_lamer | 1:45 is faster than my s60 phone boots |
| 13:18.19 | unknown_lamer | and I have to reboot that three or four times a day |
| 13:18.21 | guaqua | unknown_lamer: which phone? |
| 13:18.24 | unknown_lamer | 7610 |
| 13:18.28 | unknown_lamer | worst firmware ever |
| 13:18.41 | guaqua | 6600 takes some time to boot aswell |
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| 13:19.16 | parag0n_ | i see it something like the gp2x, originally it took like a minute to start up, by firmware 2.0 it was down to like 4 seconds :D |
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| 13:57.22 | DukeOfURL | It's a lovely morning |
| 13:58.45 | thomasg_ | it's a lovely afternoon :) |
| 13:59.17 | DukeOfURL | spring was a long time coming this year... |
| 13:59.41 | DukeOfURL | my aspen trees are just now leafing out |
| 14:00.17 | thomasg_ | spring began in february. than it ended for some time and just started again :) |
| 14:00.36 | DukeOfURL | de? |
| 14:00.48 | CoreDump|home | hah |
| 14:01.17 | CoreDump|home | I can live without this awful death-star in the sky |
| 14:01.24 | DukeOfURL | s/de/northern Europe/ |
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| 14:02.05 | DukeOfURL | CoreDump|home: death star? |
| 14:02.15 | CoreDump|home | aka sun =) |
| 14:02.41 | DukeOfURL | I couldn't live without the sun (or the ocean) |
| 14:03.14 | DukeOfURL | Does anyone know about XForms on a handheld? |
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| 14:09.44 | miip | hi |
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| 15:18.56 | quickdev | Hello |
| 15:20.56 | quickdev | Was already thought about a rotation sensor? For implementing some similar functions the iphone has |
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| 15:22.28 | madwoota | ?! |
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| 15:24.48 | quickdev | madwoota: I'm thinking of the function of the iphone where you can change to landscape mode(cross display) through rotate the phone |
| 15:25.05 | quickdev | Or is it covered by the accelerometer wikipage? |
| 15:25.38 | LuitvD | quickdev: the device has an SPI and I2C bus accessible, so you can add your own orientation sensor if you'd like one... |
| 15:26.05 | LuitvD | there's yet no plan for implementing one in the standard design |
| 15:26.18 | LuitvD | though you're free to do whatever you like :) |
| 15:27.38 | quickdev | LuitvD: Yes - but couldn't it be integrated for all users - in the next hardware model? I think it's possible to implement it very simple |
| 15:28.01 | quickdev | And if it's implementable very easy - why not using the sweet feature in the phone? ;) |
| 15:28.22 | LuitvD | well... the phone already has plenty of sweet features |
| 15:28.46 | quickdev | of course - but adding one without much effort would make it even better ;) |
| 15:28.57 | guaqua | n+1 small extra features adds many more hardware bugs to solve |
| 15:29.03 | LuitvD | plus: it's not up to us to decide about the device. The Neo1973 is a product made by FIC |
| 15:29.20 | guaqua | and at this point the core team isn't looking for (n+1)^2 bugs to fix :) |
| 15:29.24 | quickdev | yeah - but it would be suggestable :P |
| 15:29.52 | guaqua | quickdev: just add it to the wishlist in wiki and write good enough description with use cases and it might have a chance |
| 15:30.04 | quickdev | yeah - I will :) |
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| 15:30.58 | LuitvD | well, that's up to FIC to decide about that. If you'd really like an orientation sensor, you can build one yourself, and connect it to the serial interfaces available as solder-pads on the mainboard of the neo |
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| 15:32.10 | LuitvD | I bet there are plenty of people who would love to have some other feature in that device, and the housing simply can't have them all |
| 15:34.59 | Bish | riiight |
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| 15:36.09 | quickdev | LuitvD: but if they are features requiring almost nothing housing space - then there's no prob ;) |
| 15:36.38 | LuitvD | if there's a million of those features, there is a problem |
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| 15:37.29 | LuitvD | and, like guaqua said: adding something isn't done just like that. It needs a complete revision of the main PCB of the device |
| 15:37.45 | LuitvD | and for software, adds a handfull of bugs for each new feature |
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| 15:39.50 | guaqua | LuitvD: even if it didn't need a complete revision - it's going to take more work to get everything done |
| 15:40.09 | quickdev | of course |
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| 16:32.26 | roh | re |
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| 16:56.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:USB_Product_IDs]] [[Wish_List]] |
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| 17:17.48 | serzholino | counter |
| 17:17.49 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: a week 18:42:27 (7.779 +-5.0 days) (1217;209) |
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| 18:10.14 | keitsi | how much is the price on neo1973 expected to drop on mass market phase? |
| 18:10.14 | aloril | keitsi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:10.59 | LuitvD | keitsi: I think the target is to keep the price at 350 |
| 18:11.06 | LuitvD | not sure though... |
| 18:12.07 | LuitvD | the only difference will be the software support, and the ability to buy it in mobile phone stores, and via carriers |
| 18:22.10 | keitsi | can anyone confirm this? |
| 18:23.14 | keitsi | not that the $350 would be a problem in my opinion, I am just being curious. |
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| 18:54.32 | alphatwo | iirc harald wrote a mail stating that accellerometers will be considered in the next generation models |
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| 18:56.48 | quickdev | alphatwo, hrr :) |
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| 19:20.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03zecke * r2042 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (ChangeLog src/callbacks.c): (log message trimmed) |
| 19:20.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 2007-05-19 Holger Freyther <zecke@selfish.org> |
| 19:20.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Improve caching. org.openembedded.dev has a patch to libmrss |
| 19:20.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 0.17.2 to add a new method. Using this method we take over the |
| 19:20.34 | CIA-24 | openmoko: ownership of the buffer of the downloaded file. This avoid all |
| 19:20.37 | CIA-24 | openmoko: errors with mrss_write. |
| 19:20.39 | CIA-24 | openmoko: We are now caching the original file. |
| 19:21.27 | zecke|break | mickey|moving: stefan_schmidt: You will need to pick the patch to libmrss from OE |
| 19:24.36 | stefan_schmidt | zecke|break: mickey|moving job. I still have no access to the oe part of the svn. |
| 19:25.42 | stefan_schmidt | zecke|break: heh, apple pain ;) |
| 19:26.04 | *** join/#openmoko nonickatm (n=chatzill@168.226.106.196) |
| 19:26.28 | zecke|break | stefan_schmidt: badly written GNOME/KDE apps violating common HIGs |
| 19:26.41 | zecke|break | stefan_schmidt: e.g. offering the same feature in the menu |
| 19:27.29 | nonickatm | some doubt I have long time ago: will have openmoko support for non-touchscreen phones? |
| 19:27.48 | stefan_schmidt | zecke|break: Breaking HIGs is one point only have one button at the mouse another. Personally I could not live with it. |
| 19:28.17 | stefan_schmidt | nonickatm: We will work on this in the future |
| 19:28.43 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway, big headache today. bye folks |
| 19:28.52 | nonickatm | bye and thanks |
| 19:29.15 | zecke|break | stefan_schmidt: get well |
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| 20:37.04 | kiney | counter |
| 20:37.04 | aloril | http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Neo1973_counter (probability guess: 65%) P1: a week 15:23:11 (7.641 +-5.0 days) (1218;209) |
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| 20:39.29 | webjames | i guess we'll hear something monday |
| 20:40.02 | CoreDump|home | that's what we thought last week as well |
| 20:40.09 | CoreDump|home | and the week before that |
| 20:40.11 | CoreDump|home | =) |
| 20:42.08 | Elrond | Evening people. |
| 20:43.07 | CoreDump|home | hi Elrond |
| 20:43.33 | webjames | CoreDump|home: yeah, it's a shame how many projects can't keep to their schedule, it doesn't inspire great confidence |
| 20:43.46 | webjames | Evening Elrond |
| 20:45.06 | CoreDump|home | I'm surprised by the number of hardware problems they had. I mean, Taiwan beeing one of the top electronics manufacturers and all |
| 20:46.18 | webjames | i think the move to China was a good one, i've dealt with them and they are very diligent and aware of time scales |
| 20:47.14 | SuN | Yes, but at the same time you need to _exactly_ tell them what to do and don't leave anything up to their own interpretation :) |
| 20:47.57 | CoreDump|home | hehe |
| 20:48.57 | webjames | yeah |
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| 20:49.54 | Elrond | I wonder, what happened, when the P0's flash badsector markings were lost. |
| 20:50.39 | SuN | My father buys a lot of toys in China, last week, he had a toy gun he wanted to order, so he reads the product number off the package, sends it to the agency in an e-mail, they say they can't find it. They then proceed to list all the guns they think match the description, but it didn't have that particular gun. I then took a picture of the gun and sent it via e-mail. It's only then that they confirmed they had it in stock, under the exact prod |
| 20:50.39 | SuN | uct number my father initially sent, heh. |
| 20:51.17 | buz | sounds in line with a lot i hear about such deals |
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| 20:52.49 | webjames | yes, things are so cheap though |
| 20:53.07 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: they were? |
| 20:53.30 | SuN | True |
| 20:54.02 | buz | one of the better stories is the one of a chinese odm shipping 110v only gear to europe after having been expressly told to ship 220v |
| 20:54.33 | buz | cant remember where i read about that one |
| 20:54.36 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Category:Neo1973_Hardware#Bad_block |
| 20:55.01 | SuN | Yeah, that kind of little details, heh. |
| 20:55.24 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: ouch |
| 20:55.27 | buz | i think wrong powercords are sort of to be expected |
| 20:55.35 | buz | but wrong voltage? that sucks |
| 20:55.43 | SuN | My father always needs to explicitly state that he only wants the RED fireman helmets and not the orange and pink ones, heh. |
| 20:56.18 | Elrond | SuN - Is it worth all the trouble? |
| 20:56.40 | SuN | Oh yes, margins on that kind of products are sometimes 100% or more :) |
| 20:56.42 | buz | well you cant get toys from much other places |
| 20:57.19 | SuN | And once you learn from that kind of "beginner's mistakes", the Chinese are really quite accurate. |
| 20:57.26 | Elrond | incldugin duty, etc.? |
| 20:57.47 | SuN | And freight, etc., yes. |
| 20:58.00 | SuN | But my dad has been doing this for 30 years or so, he knows stuff. |
| 20:58.01 | buz | 100% margin is rather low for textiles, actually |
| 20:58.31 | SuN | It depends on the kind of business as well, my father is in wholesale. |
| 20:58.38 | Elrond | SuN - Yeah. I'm not too used to this stuff. |
| 20:58.40 | buz | most retailers mark up more than that after buying from local wholesale |
| 20:58.47 | SuN | Yep |
| 20:59.03 | buz | which again usually marks up chinese stuff 50-200% |
| 20:59.26 | SuN | If the world knew... they'd never buy anything from China again, heh. |
| 20:59.34 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - And i wonder, if there is a "recommended way" to mittigate this thing. |
| 20:59.42 | buz | pollution is really getting out of hand |
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| 21:00.19 | buz | (number one reason why i would turn down a china job, really) |
| 21:00.53 | Elrond | buz - political system would be number one for me, I think. |
| 21:01.03 | buz | from what i hear, that's less of an issue |
| 21:01.13 | buz | but the crowded cities can easily drive you crazy |
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| 21:14.40 | Nebukadneza | hi |
| 21:15.00 | Elrond | Hi Nebukadneza |
| 21:15.53 | Nebukadneza | are there any news on the status of the current hardware? |
| 21:16.28 | SpeedEvil | Couple of weeks or so |
| 21:17.05 | SpeedEvil | likely. |
| 21:17.05 | Nebukadneza | hm |
| 21:17.09 | buz | its always the same, really |
| 21:17.36 | Nebukadneza | seems like it ;P |
| 21:17.59 | Nebukadneza | just felt like asking becaus i thought after the production session on the 10th there could be some news ;P |
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| 21:19.15 | buz | yeah we all thought that ;) |
| 21:21.08 | Nebukadneza | :P |
| 21:21.16 | Nebukadneza | oh by the way, another question on the hardware |
| 21:21.40 | Nebukadneza | is the jtag standard jtag, or is it some weired connector? |
| 21:22.13 | Nebukadneza | i mean, i could build me a usb jtag interface |
| 21:22.13 | Nebukadneza | just the question whether i can connect it to the neo |
| 21:23.38 | Elrond | BTW: Is the pinout of the debug connector public? |
| 21:24.31 | Elrond | Nebukadneza - It's a nonstandard connector... hence I'm asking for the pinout. A friend offered me to build a jtag thingy. |
| 21:25.13 | Nebukadneza | hm |
| 21:25.19 | Nebukadneza | seems like the connector is a felxcable |
| 21:25.27 | Nebukadneza | no way to built a adaptor for *that* |
| 21:25.32 | SpeedEvil | Sure there is. |
| 21:25.53 | SpeedEvil | You can get flex cables of many sizes. |
| 21:25.58 | SpeedEvil | Or even etch them. |
| 21:26.28 | Nebukadneza | hm |
| 21:26.33 | Elrond | Isn't the connector on the phone just a standard thingy? |
| 21:26.38 | Nebukadneza | where would you get such a cable |
| 21:26.42 | Nebukadneza | Elrond: doesnt look like it |
| 21:26.46 | Nebukadneza | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v2_debugport_open.jpg |
| 21:26.48 | Nebukadneza | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Debug_board_connector_closed_with_cable.jpg |
| 21:26.57 | Nebukadneza | SpeedEvil: where |
| 21:27.05 | Nebukadneza | i looked for flexcables for many applications |
| 21:27.09 | Nebukadneza | never found one though |
| 21:27.21 | SpeedEvil | IIRC digikey has some. |
| 21:27.38 | Nebukadneza | thats a us company |
| 21:27.44 | SpeedEvil | So? |
| 21:27.52 | SpeedEvil | They deliver to most civilised places. |
| 21:27.53 | Nebukadneza | for the shipping i could almost order a hackers lunchbox |
| 21:28.00 | SpeedEvil | It's not _that_ bad. |
| 21:28.12 | Nebukadneza | and shipping back if it doesnt fit |
| 21:28.14 | SpeedEvil | Free over 100 quid here. (neglecting the tax) |
| 21:28.37 | Elrond | Nebukadneza - It's really not that bad. A friend ordered his sirf3 in .us (I'm in the same country as you, guessing from your hostmask) |
| 21:29.01 | Elrond | Just there's a nice chance of having fun with customs. |
| 21:29.35 | *** part/#openmoko herby (n=pascal@p54A37933.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:29.42 | Elrond | But still the question of pinlayout. |
| 21:29.54 | Nebukadneza | i also cant find information about size and how many lines the cable should have |
| 21:29.57 | Nebukadneza | yep, and that |
| 21:30.12 | SpeedEvil | Nebukadneza: there are really quite HR images of the connecotr. |
| 21:30.39 | Nebukadneza | SpeedEvil: for measuring the size? Oo |
| 21:30.42 | Elrond | Yeah, we can guess that up. |
| 21:30.50 | Nebukadneza | images cant possibly help to measure the size |
| 21:31.05 | SpeedEvil | Course they can. |
| 21:31.12 | Elrond | The size of the display is known. |
| 21:31.15 | SpeedEvil | You've got known IC pitches. |
| 21:31.22 | Nebukadneza | SpeedEvil: knowing the macro level, the magnification level and the sensor size |
| 21:31.35 | Nebukadneza | and the angel in which the photo was taken |
| 21:31.49 | SpeedEvil | It's then just a matter of orthorectification, and working it otu. |
| 21:31.56 | Nebukadneza | also on the debug board page they talk about a 20pin JTAG, i only know 5 and 8 pin jtag |
| 21:32.00 | Elrond | Nebukadneza - No need for that. We have sizes for other parts, so simple scaling will do. |
| 21:32.28 | Elrond | Nebukadneza - ARM-jtag seems to be 20pin standard. |
| 21:34.06 | Nebukadneza | Oo |
| 21:34.10 | Nebukadneza | 9 of the 20 lines are GND |
| 21:34.16 | Nebukadneza | lol |
| 21:34.41 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 21:35.08 | Nebukadneza | now thats what i call "lets just add some lines becaus the 20lines cable costs a little less than the 11lines which isnt as common" |
| 21:36.22 | webjames | SuN i hear king kong has made an appearance in the Netherlands, a gorilla called Bokito has made an escape |
| 21:36.37 | SuN | Yeah, and seriously injured a woman too. |
| 21:36.46 | Nebukadneza | ? |
| 21:37.10 | SpeedEvil | Did it carry her up a tall building, and attempt to ravish her? |
| 21:37.27 | SuN | Rumour has it this woman was in the zoo watching the gorillas almost daily, and darker rumour has it that she had been teasing the gorillas. |
| 21:37.41 | SuN | Nah he just bit her and smacked her up. |
| 21:38.40 | webjames | yeah i heard bit her as well, an 11year old gorilla suddenly realises that it can climb up the fence, what took it so long?! |
| 21:38.59 | SpeedEvil | Never wanted to sufficiently. |
| 21:39.08 | SuN | :D exactly. |
| 21:39.29 | SuN | I know what I would do if I was fed at regular times and was given a nice environment to live in. |
| 21:40.29 | SpeedEvil | Hang on IRC all day? |
| 21:40.42 | SuN | Spot on :) |
| 21:42.19 | webjames | haha nice |
| 21:42.52 | SuN | Judging from the crowd I encounter on IRC, many of them might actually be gorillas, heh. |
| 21:43.19 | SpeedEvil | '13 year old girl' (gorilla) |
| 21:47.54 | SuN | The difference is: the gorilla can handle simple tools. |
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| 22:57.16 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 22:59.26 | LuitvD | webjames: the gorilla didn't climb over a fence... It jumped over the water |
| 22:59.39 | LuitvD | which is odd.. |
| 23:07.14 | webjames | yes, i suppose it is.. maybe gorillas don't like jumping, but the women on the other side looked tasty, or was tormenting it |
| 23:08.01 | LuitvD | gorillas can jump... they're just afraid of water |
| 23:08.07 | LuitvD | somehow, Bokito wasn't |
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