| 00:00.28 | ayan4m1 | balrog-kun: Well add me to the list of "not working" |
| 00:00.40 | balrog-kun | oh i was to check something :p |
| 00:00.45 | balrog-kun | ayan4m1: are you on a 32bit system? |
| 00:00.50 | ayan4m1 | Umm sec |
| 00:00.54 | ayan4m1 | lol I don't know how it's compiled |
| 00:01.12 | ayan4m1 | I have a 64-bit proc... I believe this is 32-bit though |
| 00:02.48 | balrog-kun | root@fic-gta01:~$ echo 0 > /sys/bus/platform/devices/gta01-pm-gsm.0/power_on |
| 00:03.09 | balrog-kun | <6>gta01-pm-gsm gta01-pm-gsm.0: powered down GSM, thus enabling serial console |
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| 00:07.08 | bmidgley | Psi: the dialer never contacts the gsm network so I was going to make sure the radio powered up |
| 00:07.38 | bmidgley | the gsm icon always has a ? by it and the popup menu for power up and autoregister doesn't do anything |
| 00:09.48 | ayan4m1 | balrog-kun: Yeah it's 32-bit |
| 00:10.10 | balrog-kun | ayan4m1: ok |
| 00:10.27 | balrog-kun | well, it may be this or may be something else |
| 00:10.32 | balrog-kun | i will check that some day |
| 00:12.30 | balrog-kun | ayan4m1: are you using MokoMakefile too? |
| 00:12.43 | balrog-kun | that may have something to do too |
| 00:15.15 | ayan4m1 | balrog-kun: Yes, I can try it straight from source if you want |
| 00:16.41 | balrog-kun | ayan4m1: i'll be going to sleep already |
| 00:16.45 | balrog-kun | but thanks |
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| 00:20.09 | ayan4m1 | balrog-kun: Alright |
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| 01:55.55 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 02:09.09 | aloril | counter_msg http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) |
| 02:09.09 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) |
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| 02:40.29 | aloril | a bit old mail, but ..: |
| 02:43.24 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: sean at openmoko.org How many FOSS developers & users Worldwide? |
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| 05:07.57 | bmidgley | is there a way to make ubuntu populate the ip address of usb0 when it comes up? |
| 05:08.12 | bmidgley | i have to ifdown/ifup in order for the settings in /etc/network/interfaces to take |
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| 06:01.25 | CM | bmidgley: Maybe this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Networking#Automatic_method |
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| 06:30.37 | XorA | morning |
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| 06:50.42 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:57.37 | Rakshasa | Mornin |
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| 07:18.38 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 07:26.19 | Psi | ya know the planed price discount for the P1+ for those who buy a P1. Ya think that will be a 1:1 relationship? ie buy one P1 and get one cheaper P1+ ? or ya reckon we will be able to get more than one at the cheap price if we got only one P1? |
| 07:28.12 | TRIsoft | Sounds like a nice question for the mailinglist *hint* |
| 07:28.12 | Psi | yeah |
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| 07:52.14 | Flo | counter |
| 07:52.14 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 02:03:59 (2.086 +-2.1 days) (1168;203) |
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| 08:02.29 | Herod2k | o gente |
| 08:02.33 | Herod2k | doh |
| 08:02.37 | Herod2k | hi guys |
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| 08:20.52 | quitte | counter |
| 08:20.52 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 01:49:39 (2.076 +-2.1 days) (1169;203) |
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| 08:22.18 | XorA | anyone tried usbhost mode on neo? |
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| 08:23.35 | ColdFyre | wow this place has grown.,. |
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| 08:37.30 | *** join/#openmoko Pengu1n_ (n=yanghong@210.76.114.170) |
| 08:38.39 | Pengu1n_ | It's mid May now, :) |
| 08:39.06 | XorA | everyone waits in hope |
| 08:39.07 | Pengu1n_ | where I can buy a neo1973 ? |
| 08:39.07 | aloril | Pengu1n_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 08:39.14 | XorA | Pengu1n_: not yet |
| 08:40.01 | Pengu1n_ | mid May means May 10~20 :) |
| 08:40.30 | XorA | Pengu1n_: there will be a massive announcement when it goes for sale |
| 08:41.34 | Pengu1n_ | I want to buy it as developer. |
| 08:41.51 | ynezz | we don't |
| 08:43.23 | Pengu1n_ | I'm eager for such a OPEN phone. |
| 08:46.19 | XorA | Pengu1n_: watch for announcement |
| 08:46.32 | XorA | Pengu1n_: like everyone else :-D |
| 08:47.30 | XorA | Im sure channel will errupt all over the internet when it does :-D |
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| 08:57.51 | florian | good morning |
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| 09:10.46 | SpeedEvil | good morning florian. |
| 09:11.42 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 09:12.23 | mjr | "Give me freedom or give me death!" |
| 09:14.39 | KragenSitaker | supposedly the first run should have been four days ago, but there's nothing on the announcement list yet |
| 09:17.08 | SpeedEvil | And no significant leaks. |
| 09:17.30 | Psi | they did say that the first run will goto p0 ppl + their design staff etc. and that there may not be many left after that |
| 09:17.34 | SpeedEvil | When was the second run due? |
| 09:17.59 | Psi | may 20 or something |
| 09:18.03 | SpeedEvil | IIRC, no. They said the run that has been done a couple olf weekls ago will be |
| 09:18.04 | Psi | but im not sure if that was the start or end of the run |
| 09:18.13 | SpeedEvil | The 150 |
| 09:18.40 | Psi | ah, i probably have my runs confused |
| 09:19.13 | Psi | do we know how many phones were made in the latest run? |
| 09:19.14 | KragenSitaker | yeah, that was the run of 200 from last month |
| 09:19.16 | KragenSitaker | no |
| 09:19.22 | KragenSitaker | well, not in the announce mailing list post. |
| 09:19.28 | KragenSitaker | maybe somebody in channel knows something more :) |
| 09:19.57 | XorA | KragenSitaker: Im afraid we all in the dark |
| 09:20.17 | Psi | hopefully there were no problems with this run |
| 09:20.28 | roh | KragenSitaker its beeing worked on, really hard. just be patient |
| 09:20.29 | SpeedEvil | I expect given the delays that the first (10th) run was to checlk out the production line, and the 20th will be the volume one in that case. |
| 09:20.40 | SpeedEvil | delays as in no announce |
| 09:21.34 | *** join/#openmoko write_erase (n=olivier@81.80.156.36) |
| 09:21.56 | amarsh04 | so dont |
| 09:23.40 | write_erase | Hi, I just found your project, and I'd like to join the dev community. Are the phones available now ? |
| 09:23.41 | aloril | write_erase: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 09:23.53 | XorA | write_erase: not yet |
| 09:23.54 | SpeedEvil | write_erase: Not quite yet. |
| 09:23.58 | SpeedEvil | Any day probably. |
| 09:24.12 | SpeedEvil | This week or next seems likely. |
| 09:24.25 | SpeedEvil | And you won't get a free phone unless you're special. |
| 09:24.32 | XorA | SpeedEvil: Id go for next, we know how openmoko works :-) |
| 09:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:24.41 | write_erase | SpeedEvil, I can pay for a dev kit |
| 09:24.52 | SpeedEvil | We're all waiting on the announcement. |
| 09:25.23 | write_erase | What's the best channel for anouncements ? |
| 09:25.23 | SpeedEvil | There are some 300 people already put themselves on the interested in buying it list on the wiki - which has no official force. |
| 09:25.30 | SpeedEvil | This one. |
| 09:25.34 | write_erase | :-) gine |
| 09:25.36 | SpeedEvil | Or join the announce mailing list |
| 09:25.36 | write_erase | fine |
| 09:25.49 | XorA | write_erase: what do you develop BW |
| 09:25.50 | XorA | BTW |
| 09:25.52 | XorA | ? |
| 09:26.22 | write_erase | XorA, I mostly work on AVR32 Atmel boards .. for in-car systems |
| 09:26.31 | Psi | nice |
| 09:26.59 | XorA | write_erase: cool |
| 09:27.29 | XorA | write_erase: I havent done in car stuff since reverse engineering the sony headset->multichanger protocol and writing PIC code to translate it |
| 09:27.35 | alphaone | write_erase: Nice. I want to get my hands on one of these soon. |
| 09:27.57 | SpeedEvil | I'm planning to use the Neo for controling my ECU in-car, and reading out problems. |
| 09:28.06 | write_erase | At the moment, I use T2 project for build system ... It supports AVR32 |
| 09:28.11 | SpeedEvil | With the http://megasquirt.info/ ECU |
| 09:29.08 | SpeedEvil | And perhaps for a complete dashboard, depending on how well the dashboard reacts to removing the ECU :) |
| 09:29.43 | write_erase | SpeedEvil, You can read most of interesting datas with simple CANbus tranceivers |
| 09:29.56 | write_erase | Speed / Comfort equipements .... |
| 09:30.20 | alphaone | Airbags :-) |
| 09:30.45 | write_erase | Hehe |
| 09:34.46 | *** join/#openmoko Pengu1n_ (n=yanghong@210.76.114.170) |
| 09:35.42 | CM | SpeedEvil: megasquirt just doesn't sound tight to me.. |
| 09:35.54 | SpeedEvil | write_erase: No CAN. |
| 09:36.02 | SpeedEvil | 1994. |
| 09:36.07 | SpeedEvil | CM: Why not? |
| 09:36.18 | CM | I mean the name sounds weird |
| 09:36.23 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 09:36.58 | CM | Either I get association with someone stepping on a huge toothpaste tube, or something much nastier.. |
| 09:37.30 | SpeedEvil | It's controlling petrol injection. |
| 09:37.48 | CM | Ah, ok. :) |
| 09:38.02 | SpeedEvil | Or diesel, alcohol, nitromethane, ... |
| 09:38.12 | SpeedEvil | Even water in some cases. |
| 09:38.40 | CM | I know they put some water in dragsters when racing |
| 09:39.30 | CM | I wonder what all the FIC people are up to.. |
| 09:39.57 | CM | Sure they're extremely busy, but just some kind of brief announcement would be nice |
| 09:40.16 | roh | CM the same every linux developer wants... world domination ;) |
| 09:40.18 | CM | Waiting is fine, as long as you get some trickle of news |
| 09:40.25 | CM | roh: Hehe |
| 09:47.27 | KragenSitaker | roh: heh, no problem --- i know the guys at FIC are hard working and competent :) |
| 09:47.32 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k957.webspeed.dk) |
| 09:54.59 | XorA | why do terminal reactor overlaods always have a complex sequence to fix instead of a big red button saying Fix Overload? |
| 09:56.20 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 09:57.53 | Rakshasa | XorA: They make better puzzles in games that way... |
| 10:04.00 | philippe | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:05.30 | barf | hey SpeedEvil, what are you putting the megasquirt into? |
| 10:05.30 | aloril | barf: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 10:05.46 | koen | philippe: http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/repo/?action=details&pnm=powertop http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-commits/2007-May/005477.html :) |
| 10:09.56 | xkr47 | nice |
| 10:10.17 | holtmann | koen: Around? |
| 10:10.33 | koen | holtmann: yes |
| 10:10.50 | holtmann | Last week, I finally got bluez-utils-3.10 released. |
| 10:11.15 | koen | cooool! |
| 10:11.15 | roh | holtmann congrats ;) |
| 10:11.38 | holtmann | roh: Took us five month. Don't ask :( |
| 10:11.44 | xkr47 | sing the bluez :) |
| 10:12.04 | philippe | koen: nice :-) |
| 10:12.14 | holtmann | koen: We need to fix the package recipe. Can you point me to the OE one. I like to review it. |
| 10:12.34 | holtmann | koen: I changed a lot and now have to step-by-step clean the distros for it. |
| 10:13.07 | koen | holtmann: they are in http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages/bluez |
| 10:14.29 | holtmann | koen: The new bluez-libs-3.10 should be straight forward. |
| 10:15.19 | koen | NOTE: package bluez-libs-3.10-r0: task do_configure: started |
| 10:16.06 | koen | Packaged contents of bluez-libs into /data/build/koen/OE/build/tmp/angstrom/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/libbluetooth2_3.10-r0_armv4t.ipk |
| 10:16.13 | holtmann | # Almost all serial CF cards w/ manfid 0x0000,0x0000 seem to use the bcs protocol # Let's default to that instead of 'any' until further notice... SRC_URI += " file://default-manfid-0x0-to-bcps.patch;patch=1" |
| 10:16.29 | holtmann | That is crap. The protocol is called BCSP and you can't assume that. |
| 10:16.39 | holtmann | From bluez-utils.inc |
| 10:17.45 | holtmann | It should also only depend on bluez-libs and dbus by default. No dependency on cups. cups support is really optional. |
| 10:18.22 | roh | holtmann it breaks because of cups if its missing |
| 10:18.23 | koen | the cups plugin gets packaged seperately, so bluez doesn't depend on cups in runtime |
| 10:18.51 | koen | roh: nonsense |
| 10:19.04 | holtmann | You should not even depend on it at compile time. Mainly since it is not needed at all. |
| 10:19.42 | roh | koen did here on my machine a few weeks ago. and no i did not explicitly enable it. |
| 10:20.01 | roh | i had to build cups by hand to get it building through |
| 10:20.21 | holtmann | roh: I always test with --disable-cups. |
| 10:20.34 | roh | holtmann yeah.. you.. tell that the OE guys |
| 10:20.51 | koen | roh: so the openmoko OE tree is broken, what else is new |
| 10:20.52 | roh | thats why we again fixed the OE revision we use in OM |
| 10:21.29 | holtmann | Sorry. The compilation with --enable-cups and --disable-cups works perfectly fine. |
| 10:21.35 | koen | "had to build cups by hand" == broken tree |
| 10:21.55 | koen | IOW, a problem with the openmoko stuff |
| 10:22.00 | roh | koen we cannot just stay on head of OE as long as it breaks all the time. and no i will not discuss that. that was discussed in a lot of detail with harald and others before |
| 10:22.00 | holtmann | And default cups support is off. |
| 10:22.58 | holtmann | koen: Anyway. Please don't depend on cups by default. Not even at build time. |
| 10:23.19 | roh | holtmann thanks, anyways :) |
| 10:23.40 | roh | koen s/breaks/breaks OM/g |
| 10:24.12 | koen | roh: 90% of the breakage is caused by the openmoko svn overlay |
| 10:24.26 | koen | roh: if you delete teh overlay those problems dissappear |
| 10:24.35 | koen | and bugs get fixed much sooner! |
| 10:24.57 | SpeedEvil | barf: megatunix |
| 10:24.59 | roh | koen it breaks because nobody of the OE guys seems to have any respect for overlays which are NEEDED to have the same results for all developers working on such a project. |
| 10:25.20 | roh | koen if you cannot accept that you should better leave. thanks |
| 10:25.21 | hads | heh |
| 10:25.26 | koen | roh: overlays aren't needed, all openmoko stuff is already in OE |
| 10:25.32 | SpeedEvil | barf: it's an existing package. After that, I may write a custom little app of sorts. |
| 10:26.20 | roh | rwhitby no need to. i will neither discuss this nor am in any position to change that. (or want that) if it was after me we would not use OE anyways. |
| 10:26.21 | koen | roh: the only thing NEEDED to have the same results is that all developers have the same tree |
| 10:27.14 | roh | koen not every developer is a OE and bb guru nor has he to be. if you want to enforce that by constantly breaking other peoples work they will leave and use other buildsystems. your decision |
| 10:28.13 | koen | roh: hey, I don't break openmoko SVN, the openmoko team is doing a good job of that themselves |
| 10:29.19 | roh | koen you break it by breaking the overlay. and no. i will not discuss that any further. accept it |
| 10:29.20 | alphaone | Guys, I don't think this is leading anywhere we haven't already been... |
| 10:29.45 | roh | alphaone thanks. i will go smoking now ;) |
| 10:29.49 | koen | roh: how did I break the overlay? the openmoko team made the broken .21 kernel the default |
| 10:30.19 | roh | koen you did not update it seems. 2.6.20 is used currently. the .21 is not default |
| 10:30.20 | XorA | seeing as the "overlay" requires a version of OE in the past, I dont see how the OE team can break it |
| 10:30.31 | koen | XorA: exactly |
| 10:30.42 | roh | XorA yep. since we fixed on that again |
| 10:30.52 | koen | roh: updating!?!?!? that breaks!!! updating is evil!!!! |
| 10:31.28 | roh | XorA we just do not have the ressources to constantly patch behind the flow of oe changes and keep up working forward. |
| 10:31.31 | holtmann | koen: I am just thinking about adding a --disable-mapages switch. |
| 10:32.00 | koen | roh: you could have had the resources, I and others offered to do that |
| 10:32.48 | roh | koen thats not my decicion at all. as i said i would never have used oe anyways. but thats only my personal opinion, not that of my 'bosses' |
| 10:33.45 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@194.65.5.235) |
| 10:33.59 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 10:34.20 | roh | koen so lets please cool down, the fixed version will stay for obvious and already discussed reasons and go smoke a cigarette and drink some iced tea :) |
| 10:38.47 | xkr47 | the fixed version smokes cigarrettes and drinks iced tea ?-) |
| 10:39.23 | Hopscotch | !sandbox |
| 10:39.23 | barf | SpeedEvil, sorry, i meant what car? =) |
| 10:40.05 | balrog-kun | ayan4m1: ping. current qemu svn is working for me, on a random 32bit machine in the lab |
| 10:41.20 | balrog-kun | it's just extremely slow here |
| 10:42.30 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1953 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-contact-pane.c): |
| 10:42.30 | CIA-24 | openmoko: Patch by: Neil J Patel <njp@o-hand.com> |
| 10:42.30 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (field_focus_in), (field_focus_out), |
| 10:42.30 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (make_widget): Remove frames from entry boxes when not focused in edit mode |
| 10:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 10:43.07 | koen | holtmann: could you hop over to #oe ? |
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| 11:11.10 | roh | bbl. food calls |
| 11:11.18 | SpeedEvil | OMG |
| 11:11.29 | SpeedEvil | They've done transgenic food with GSM. |
| 11:11.35 | SpeedEvil | That's what the next OM device is. |
| 11:12.07 | roh | :) |
| 11:12.50 | Elrond | *G* |
| 11:15.09 | holtmann | roh: Do you wanna maintain a separate recipe of bluez-utils for OpenMoko? |
| 11:15.24 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62feb.bb.sky.com) |
| 11:15.58 | loufoque | SpeedEvil: it's a weapon now? |
| 11:24.36 | alphaone | loufoque: It's been a weapon all along. That's what you need for world domination nowadays. |
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| 11:32.36 | Elrond | [OT] Can modern desktop usb hosts meaure the current they give to a port? (and can I get that measurement?) |
| 11:32.41 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 11:32.46 | SpeedEvil | Almost without exception. |
| 11:33.17 | loufoque | alphaone: violence is for the weak |
| 11:33.24 | SpeedEvil | Which week? |
| 11:33.27 | loufoque | alphaone: there is no need to have a weapon to dominate the world |
| 11:34.33 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - hehe. :-)) I already found the extended version of the knife-meaurement tool: http://www.ultramobilegeek.com/2007/02/measuring-power-on-peripherals-usb.html ;o) |
| 11:35.28 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I had hoped to get something for free ;o) |
| 11:35.46 | SpeedEvil | You don't have a multimeter? |
| 11:36.33 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I have one. Just I'm not good at those soldering / small cables things. |
| 11:36.47 | SpeedEvil | Who said anything about soldering. |
| 11:36.57 | SpeedEvil | Chop off the insulation outside the cable. |
| 11:37.16 | SpeedEvil | Move the shieldig mesh to one side, and cut away the foil. |
| 11:37.25 | SpeedEvil | Expose 2" or so of the cable. |
| 11:37.36 | SpeedEvil | Cut the red wire |
| 11:37.50 | SpeedEvil | Strip ends, wrap round multimeter probes, tape on. |
| 11:37.54 | alphaone | loufoque: Of course you're right. I wasn't serious :-) |
| 11:38.04 | Elrond | Okay: Small cables, etc. :) |
| 11:38.29 | Elrond | :-) |
| 11:38.57 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d5152D19B.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:39.05 | SpeedEvil | I'll mail you a pre-done cable with a couple of croc-clips for the plugs, for 5 quid via paypal :) |
| 11:40.18 | Elrond | hehe, okay, I'll do that, when/if I need it. :-) |
| 11:46.17 | CoreDump|afk | hmmm the box looks like a nifty little toy |
| 11:49.37 | Elrond | CoreDump|afk - Huh, what are you gonna do? |
| 11:49.43 | XorA | ahah P1 phone arrives |
| 11:49.57 | Elrond | XorA - the .tw one? |
| 11:50.00 | CoreDump|afk | Elrond: the box, for fun =) |
| 11:50.10 | XorA | Elrond: yeah |
| 11:50.11 | Elrond | CoreDump|afk - Ahh ;) |
| 11:51.28 | *** join/#openmoko cbrake (n=cbrake@oh-69-34-21-229.sta.embarqhsd.net) |
| 11:51.43 | Elrond | XorA - Test the charger, please. woglinde's one did not like him. (I do not make any further claims to what was wrong.) |
| 11:53.03 | Elrond | XorA - adult safety? ;o) |
| 11:53.58 | Elrond | How's the english name for those thingies (like on drugs, or for car doors), so children should not be able to open it? |
| 11:54.07 | Elrond | (We call it "Kindersicherung" ;) ) |
| 11:54.25 | XorA | Elrond: no charger |
| 11:54.51 | XorA | Elrond: Childproof |
| 11:55.20 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Text_Input]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 11:55.31 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 11:55.48 | Elrond | So the neo box is adultproof. ;o) |
| 11:57.05 | Elrond | Hmm, "no charger". I thought, Bv4 would come with a new charger with some trickery so the neo would nknow it's allowed to take 500mA. |
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| 12:21.19 | Mukunda | Is the Neo1973 available yet? |
| 12:21.22 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@cpc1-oxfd9-0-0-cust930.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
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| 12:22.08 | hads | not yet |
| 12:22.09 | webjames | no news then i take it |
| 12:22.19 | hads | Join the announce list. |
| 12:27.23 | webjames | balrog-kun: i see no luck with the changes yet, no matter, message me if i can be of any help |
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| 13:55.21 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]] |
| 14:07.52 | *** join/#openmoko GaKkGaKk (i=Viko@vpn-22240.vpn-s.ntnu.no) |
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| 14:08.07 | GaKkGaKk | counter |
| 14:08.07 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 22:56:02 (1.956 +-2.0 days) (1170;204) |
| 14:08.16 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:08.18 | GaKkGaKk | a day?! |
| 14:08.29 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 14:08.53 | SpeedEvil | Maybe a day, maybe a week. |
| 14:09.03 | LittleIdiot | my bet is +14d |
| 14:09.07 | Vegar | I bet two |
| 14:09.09 | SpeedEvil | It's looking like a month is less probable at this point |
| 14:09.11 | Vegar | (weeks that is) |
| 14:09.48 | GaKkGaKk | Good... I?m in the hospital with a broken ankle and no internet... and I would hate for something to happen without me seeing it :) |
| 14:10.22 | Vegar | did you go skiing? |
| 14:10.34 | SpeedEvil | Ah - you're using the psychic internet gateway to IRC I guess then. |
| 14:10.39 | GaKkGaKk | football... (or soccer). |
| 14:10.49 | SpeedEvil | Badly broken? |
| 14:10.55 | GaKkGaKk | I am using my magic WLAN enabled Neo1973 |
| 14:11.06 | Vegar | a time traveller! |
| 14:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 14:11.13 | GaKkGaKk | More pulverized than broken really |
| 14:11.18 | SpeedEvil | Ow. |
| 14:11.34 | GaKkGaKk | Three bones in the joint, foot and leg brken |
| 14:11.38 | GaKkGaKk | joint crushed |
| 14:11.48 | Vegar | are you sure it was football? |
| 14:11.52 | SpeedEvil | Did you get run over by the bus? |
| 14:12.01 | roh | re |
| 14:12.01 | SpeedEvil | Containing the other team? |
| 14:12.21 | GaKkGaKk | Never underestimate the power of taking speed into a tackle :) |
| 14:12.23 | guaqua | GaKkGaKk: ouch |
| 14:12.35 | SpeedEvil | GaKkGaKk: Can they rebuild you? |
| 14:12.46 | guaqua | make update && make setup && make |
| 14:12.54 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 14:13.19 | GaKkGaKk | They will make me ok, by the cunning use of nuts, bolts and metal plates. |
| 14:13.44 | GaKkGaKk | I'll never get trhough airport security again... |
| 14:14.03 | roh | Elrond when you speak about the black plastic cases... it propably helps to loose the small plastic covered screw near the handle. that would allow air in and ease the opening |
| 14:14.16 | Vegar | GaKkGaKk: will you have them there for the rest of your life? |
| 14:14.27 | SpeedEvil | They don't take plates like that out. |
| 14:14.29 | SpeedEvil | Generally. |
| 14:14.34 | Vegar | oh |
| 14:14.43 | SpeedEvil | Unless it's a child, and they have to, to allow growth |
| 14:14.58 | GaKkGaKk | Vegar: Probably, I can have them removed after 1,5 years or so if they annoy me, but then I have to let the leg grow again... Not sure I want that. |
| 14:15.17 | SpeedEvil | Or if it causes problems of course. |
| 14:15.24 | Vegar | let it grow? |
| 14:15.29 | Vegar | in length? |
| 14:15.29 | DukeOfURL | GaKkGaKk: airport security is going to be a problem: "Oh my god, another shoe bomber" |
| 14:15.41 | GaKkGaKk | To remove the plates... They have to like... open the leg. |
| 14:15.54 | GaKkGaKk | To close the leg... |
| 14:16.03 | SpeedEvil | They can't just use keyhole surgery, and extract them through the nostril? :) |
| 14:16.03 | GaKkGaKk | grow / heal |
| 14:16.22 | Vegar | that's not so bad, is it? |
| 14:16.37 | SpeedEvil | The bone grows to a sufficient strength as it heals to support the body, with the plates present. |
| 14:16.49 | GaKkGaKk | DukeOfURL: -"Ofcourse there is no giant metal knife in my sock..." |
| 14:16.58 | SpeedEvil | If you then remove the plates, the bone is still not quite at adequate strength, so it takes a bit of time |
| 14:17.06 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 14:17.37 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: sound similar to what i've done to myself about a year back, it was called something fancy in hospital but it meant i broke all the bones around the ankle joint. the plates/rods/etc are all still there, and the only problem i have flying is the lack of leg space. |
| 14:17.58 | GaKkGaKk | lack of? |
| 14:18.42 | webjames | insufficient leg space, i don't have any problem with the sensors although i was warned i might |
| 14:19.19 | GaKkGaKk | webjames: insufficient as in, no space for the stuff inside the foot? |
| 14:19.29 | webjames | it gets stiff if i don't move it for a while, and in cold weather it aches |
| 14:19.48 | GaKkGaKk | webjames: Good thing I live in norway then :\ |
| 14:19.48 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: no just not enough room to stretch my leg out and move it around |
| 14:20.22 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: my guess is the metal gets colder quicker thus the aching |
| 14:20.34 | DukeOfURL | I broke the top corner off of my talus--I still get periodic pain. Recommendation : if the docs say no weight on the foot then don't even toe touch. |
| 14:21.47 | webjames | DukeOfURL: yeah, i was told when i got out of hospital i could walk on it, so i got wheeled to my mates car in a chair and got driven home then walked out of the car to my house and around a bit, and then i was in agonny |
| 14:22.19 | GaKkGaKk | I'm told absolutely no walking for 6 weeks. |
| 14:23.06 | GaKkGaKk | Then walking and no running or such... And i have already waited two weeks for the operation, which is on friday. |
| 14:23.13 | webjames | i was in hospital lying on my back with my leg up in the air to stop the swelling, then when they made my ankle i was told although the bones were not healed i didn't need them to be |
| 14:23.46 | DukeOfURL | NHS? |
| 14:24.06 | GaKkGaKk | NHS? |
| 14:24.12 | webjames | yeah, i was waiting 2weeks well 13 days before they could operate |
| 14:25.27 | GaKkGaKk | Guess I'll be around 17 - 18... I really hate this swelling :D |
| 14:25.41 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@c-24-3-50-207.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 14:25.58 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: they cannot operate till it's down |
| 14:26.16 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:26.23 | GaKkGaKk | Anyway, I should get back to the hospital bed to avoid it swelling even more... Right now I'm in the hospital library... |
| 14:26.36 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: i hope you're taking full advantage of the morphine |
| 14:26.45 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: feel better matey |
| 14:27.02 | GaKkGaKk | I only got morhine once.. |
| 14:27.18 | DukeOfURL | GaKkGaKk: I hope you have your foot propped-up on the monitor... |
| 14:27.20 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: the trick is to say you're in pain |
| 14:27.54 | GaKkGaKk | webjames: The morphine only makes me sleepy :\ |
| 14:28.12 | webjames | GaKkGaKk: all the time your foot is below you the swelling wont go down very quickly |
| 14:28.26 | *** part/#openmoko dotmef (n=mef@mx1.bitwise.org) |
| 14:28.30 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:29.14 | GaKkGaKk | webjames: It's on the other table, but still it should be higher... So I'll leave... See you all later! There will be enough time for IRC when I get back home :) |
| 14:29.38 | DukeOfURL | GaKkGaKk: good luck with the surgery! |
| 14:29.44 | GaKkGaKk | thnx |
| 14:30.08 | DukeOfURL | bummer |
| 14:30.14 | guaqua | :( |
| 14:30.24 | guaqua | sounds bad |
| 14:30.49 | DukeOfURL | you don't realize how dependent you are on your feet until something happens... |
| 14:31.11 | guaqua | i've only broken my toe, but that was bad enough |
| 14:31.23 | guaqua | took over a year to heal |
| 14:31.30 | guaqua | fully, that is |
| 14:31.33 | SpeedEvil | I poured boiling water over one of mine. |
| 14:31.36 | SpeedEvil | That wasn't fun either. |
| 14:31.40 | SpeedEvil | (accidentally) |
| 14:31.46 | guaqua | :D |
| 14:31.46 | webjames | burns have got to be the worst |
| 14:31.56 | SpeedEvil | It wasn't a bad burn fortunately. |
| 14:32.22 | webjames | SpeedEvil: that is fortunate |
| 14:33.26 | webjames | i still cant get qemu working since that update on friday |
| 14:34.35 | *** join/#openmoko calvin_ (i=calvin@nat/novell/x-32d15bb82ee2eef0) |
| 14:34.47 | DukeOfURL | Heh. Here in the states it's pretty much illegal to deliver a baby by yourself. |
| 14:36.20 | DukeOfURL | Or any other medical procedure. |
| 14:36.21 | SpeedEvil | There are generally exceptions for 'when it's not possible to get to a doctor, and the life is in danger'. |
| 14:36.22 | SpeedEvil | Of course, if it's later found that the life was not in danger, you're screwed. |
| 14:36.23 | DukeOfURL | yup |
| 14:36.24 | hypa7ia_ | i guess midwifery hasn't made much of a comeback in the US yet eh |
| 14:36.37 | *** part/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:36.44 | DukeOfURL | pretty much illegal unless a doctor is advising |
| 14:36.59 | hypa7ia | wow |
| 14:37.11 | hypa7ia | up here we have licensed midwives |
| 14:37.15 | SpeedEvil | Midwives have legal standing here (UK) |
| 14:37.28 | hypa7ia | the govt is trying to encourage people to use midwives because it's cheaper :) |
| 14:37.35 | DukeOfURL | doctors have a very good lobbying organization called the AMA. |
| 14:37.46 | hypa7ia | yeah :/ |
| 14:38.34 | webjames | just watching Lawrence of Arabia is it any good? |
| 14:38.39 | hypa7ia | we have the CMA but for some reason they didn't get in the way of midwives as much |
| 14:39.13 | DukeOfURL | classic |
| 14:39.13 | DukeOfURL | hypa7ia: canada? |
| 14:39.38 | hypa7ia | DukeOfURL: yup |
| 14:41.06 | DukeOfURL | I would have to say that the root problem is with lawyers/prosecutors. A prosecutor is an elected position, so he has to constantly demonstrate he's "tough on crime". |
| 14:41.33 | DukeOfURL | There is much prosecutorial misconduct here. |
| 14:41.34 | hypa7ia | here we don't elect judges or prosecutors |
| 14:41.38 | hypa7ia | it seems to work pretty well |
| 14:41.42 | SpeedEvil | That's an evil influence. |
| 14:41.47 | SpeedEvil | As is plea bargaining. |
| 14:42.37 | DukeOfURL | So if a mother loses her baby in a doctor-less birth, the prosecutor will step in and charge child abuse. |
| 14:42.39 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention non-reciprocal extradition treaties. |
| 14:42.41 | hypa7ia | plea bargaining can go pretty wrong |
| 14:43.03 | hypa7ia | DukeOfURL: wow, that would never happen here |
| 14:43.35 | DukeOfURL | because the law states a doctor must be advising |
| 14:44.15 | hypa7ia | which is kind of crap |
| 14:44.16 | hypa7ia | i mean |
| 14:44.27 | hypa7ia | a doctor doesn't need to advise on taking a crap |
| 14:44.35 | hypa7ia | which is about as natural a funcion as giving birth :p |
| 14:44.35 | DukeOfURL | let's throw it all out the window and start over |
| 14:45.00 | hypa7ia | lol |
| 14:45.07 | hypa7ia | a friend of mine is giving birth in june |
| 14:45.20 | hypa7ia | she's an advocate of "unassisted childbirth" |
| 14:45.37 | hypa7ia | i'm kinda nervous for her but she's pretty set on going alone! |
| 14:46.27 | DukeOfURL | does she have a hottub handy? |
| 14:46.45 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 14:47.40 | koen | all 3 mothers I know that went for "unassisted childbirth" needed to be rushed into the hospital due to complications |
| 14:47.59 | zecke | koen: that is a dutch habbit :) |
| 14:48.17 | hypa7ia | DukeOfURL: a bathtub, anyway :) |
| 14:50.00 | koen | none, since we're men :) |
| 14:51.13 | hypa7ia | koen: really? |
| 14:51.14 | aloril | hypa7ia: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:51.30 | hypa7ia | ha |
| 14:51.37 | koen | hypa7ia: I would have been killed twice if my mother had followed the advice of the midwive to "take an aspirine" |
| 14:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 14:52.16 | hypa7ia | ouch |
| 14:52.29 | koen | probablyt the exception to the rule, though |
| 14:52.33 | hypa7ia | aspirin is a blood thinner |
| 14:52.47 | hypa7ia | i don't know why anyone would give that to a labouring woman :p |
| 14:52.52 | hypa7ia | koen: probably |
| 14:53.09 | hypa7ia | the US has the highest rate of death in childbirth of any industrialized country |
| 14:53.13 | koen | labour hadn't happened at that point, though |
| 14:53.22 | hypa7ia | ah |
| 14:53.39 | koen | I'm also biased because most of my family works or has worked in a hospital :) |
| 14:54.10 | hypa7ia | hehe, here a lot of the midwives work in / from hospitals |
| 14:56.54 | DukeOfURL | hypa7ia: rate of death for the mother or the child? |
| 14:57.13 | hypa7ia | DukeOfURL: both |
| 14:57.37 | hypa7ia | infant mortality and maternal death |
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| 15:03.51 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 15:04.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1954 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: openmoko-panel-battery: don't print out debug messages every five seconds |
| 15:06.08 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gopi@server1.mdsamerica.com) |
| 15:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 15:07.01 | LuitvD | counter |
| 15:07.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 22:26:36 (1.935 +-1.9 days) (1171;204) |
| 15:08.58 | LuitvD | any more info on the P1 release yet? |
| 15:09.46 | hads | No, it will be on the announce list. |
| 15:09.54 | ynezz | when? |
| 15:09.55 | ynezz | :) |
| 15:10.10 | hads | When it's ready. |
| 15:10.31 | don-o | i was excited to see the JavaFX announcement use the neo as one of its supported platforms. |
| 15:10.51 | LuitvD | don-o: really? :D |
| 15:11.03 | LuitvD | that's cool |
| 15:11.25 | don-o | LuitvD: yeah, its got to be encouraging to FIC to see Sun show interest in their phone. |
| 15:12.03 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-190-120.cust.broadway.se) |
| 15:12.40 | don-o | LuitvD: http://blogs.sun.com/jonathan/entry/when_not_where |
| 15:13.54 | LuitvD | very slow website... |
| 15:14.23 | webjames | yes... |
| 15:15.09 | LuitvD | youtube was like this yesterday |
| 15:15.37 | don-o | hmm. the neo isnt actually named in the article, but there is a big beautiful photo of it with some java desktop thing on it. |
| 15:15.57 | LuitvD | aww |
| 15:16.18 | rd_ | http://www.pikesoft.com/blog/index.php?itemid=174 |
| 15:16.42 | LuitvD | ah, now I see :) |
| 15:16.44 | LuitvD | nice |
| 15:17.44 | LuitvD | how did he get one? :| |
| 15:18.20 | koen | probably by asking for it |
| 15:18.26 | rd_ | LuitvD, good question, im wondering too :D |
| 15:18.46 | LuitvD | koen: didn't work for me though :P |
| 15:19.07 | LuitvD | koen: most likely I haven't been asking the right person |
| 15:26.49 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_moo (n=moo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 15:30.55 | *** join/#openmoko simon__ (n=simon@h98n2fls301o1032.telia.com) |
| 15:33.34 | simon__ | counter? |
| 15:33.34 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a day 22:13:19 (1.926 +-1.9 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-15); 4 months, a day (124.852 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1172;204) |
| 15:35.02 | pjz | LuitvD: are you a major Sun exec? :) |
| 15:35.28 | *** join/#openmoko shenki_ (n=shenki@ppp36-188.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 15:35.29 | LuitvD | depends on who's asking ;) |
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| 15:53.59 | TRIsoft | gtg, cu |
| 15:54.29 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:55.20 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 16:13.44 | mjr | a bit layout finetuning needed, but works, and isn't too cumbersome to type on if one isn't going for fine literature |
| 16:14.04 | mjr | (or well, any long piece of writing ;) |
| 16:16.30 | SpeedEvil | The credit card one? |
| 16:16.34 | SpeedEvil | 2AAA |
| 16:16.51 | mjr | yeah this one: http://gtbleds.up.seesaa.net/image/P1000677.JPG |
| 16:17.53 | ynezz | nice |
| 16:18.24 | mjr | the handy hinge at the back seems like it should be able to support a Neo nicely, but I'll have to wait to verify :] |
| 16:19.16 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 16:20.11 | mjr | (a spring-loaded hinge to squeeze another device on the keyboard so you can manipulate them kinda as a unit) |
| 16:20.42 | Elrond | Evening poeple. :-) |
| 16:21.23 | SpeedEvil | Afternoon. |
| 16:21.47 | Elrond | It's feeling more like evening. ;) |
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| 16:26.26 | *** join/#openmoko arw (i=root@gateway/tor/x-691bf56319e0d550) |
| 16:27.02 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 16:27.15 | don-o | its evening somewhere :) |
| 16:27.46 | *** join/#openmoko Hovy (n=lynx@port-87-234-114-48.dynamic.qsc.de) |
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| 16:28.15 | arw | don-o: here is morning .. |
| 16:28.17 | arw | :) |
| 16:28.59 | balrog-kun | webjames: i haven't made any changes related to that problem but it's working on 32bit systems when built the using the instructions from the wiki - checked today at school on a random computer |
| 16:29.25 | webjames | balrog-kun: cool, i'll try that, thanks |
| 16:29.49 | Elrond | balrog-kun - How large is the diff to a standard qemu? |
| 16:30.01 | balrog-kun | webjames: ok, lemme find a link to the wiki page |
| 16:30.09 | balrog-kun | Elrond: i estimate around 500kB |
| 16:30.17 | Elrond | Huh, that's a lot. Hmm. |
| 16:30.34 | Elrond | Are you trying to push things upstream? |
| 16:30.53 | balrog-kun | at the moment there's some 100kB of code that's not ours in this tree and that is also not in the standard qemu |
| 16:31.03 | balrog-kun | Elrond: i'll be trying when it's more mature |
| 16:31.15 | balrog-kun | Elrond: at the moment it's still evolving very quickly |
| 16:32.06 | balrog-kun | Elrond: i do work with upstream and posted information about our tree to qemu-devel |
| 16:32.31 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Ahh, great. :) |
| 16:33.06 | Elrond | balrog-kun - If you feel the diff to be good enough, I can try to get it (the diff) into debian's qemu. |
| 16:33.47 | balrog-kun | there are parts that are not strictly related to Neo emulation and i try to commit them to qemu mainline CVS (when they're clean enough :p) |
| 16:34.19 | Elrond | You have commit access to upstream's cvs? |
| 16:34.23 | balrog-kun | Elrond: ah, nice |
| 16:34.32 | balrog-kun | Elrond: yep, since not too long ago |
| 16:35.07 | Elrond | Ahh, good. |
| 16:37.00 | balrog-kun | i can now more easily make a diff because our tree is in sync from last friday, and it's also starting to look clean to me |
| 16:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:37.43 | balrog-kun | this was possible cause the svn.openmoko.org tree was not based on mainline, but on a different tree that had over 1MB of changes and i only committed it all last week |
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| 16:39.13 | parag0n | hmm, is p1+ still planned ofr june? |
| 16:39.22 | *** join/#openmoko vaiursch (n=erwin@84-72-190-106.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:39.23 | parag0n | because at ths point, i might just wait :P |
| 16:39.28 | happycube | depends on how the first version of gta02 works |
| 16:39.40 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 16:41.13 | Elrond | Ahhh. |
| 16:41.29 | Elrond | balrog-kun - If you need someone to review small parts, let me know. :) |
| 16:41.47 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 16:42.40 | balrog-kun | Elrond: ok, thanks :) |
| 16:42.52 | balrog-kun | webjames: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup this is the instructions that worked for me |
| 16:43.00 | balrog-kun | sorry it took so long :p |
| 16:43.12 | webjames | balrog-kun: np. thanks, ill try that out |
| 16:43.17 | kiney_ | counter |
| 16:43.17 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 21:38:27 (1.902 +-1.9 days) (1173;204) |
| 16:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 16:56.41 | Sufflope | if P1 won't take place Wednesday, it is quite sadistic to let the counter tell us so :p |
| 16:56.49 | webjames | balrog-kun: yeah thanks for that worked like a charm, although seems alot slower than before, maybe i'm doing my om my computer |
| 16:58.43 | balrog-kun | webjames: i.e. it takes longer to boot OpenMoko? |
| 16:59.00 | webjames | balrog-kun: yeah so far about 10x longer |
| 16:59.59 | balrog-kun | hummm, on that 32bit machine i tested it was also extremely slow, i will need to check that |
| 17:00.13 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@85-124-82-240.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 17:00.19 | balrog-kun | i notice no difference on my desktop |
| 17:00.29 | *** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de) |
| 17:01.37 | webjames | balrog-kun: your desktop is 64bit, i'm waiting to buy a amd quad core thing |
| 17:02.10 | balrog-kun | yeah, but a 10x difference would be noticeable nevertheless :p |
| 17:03.52 | webjames | okay i'll do the same |
| 17:05.02 | balrog-kun | 61 seconds here (i thought it was going to be less) |
| 17:05.27 | balrog-kun | this is assuming the touchscreen is calibrated already etc |
| 17:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3ee3fa35.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:07.31 | balrog-kun | i wonder what maybe slowing it down so badly on 32bits, - i also noticed that erasing the flash with the "scrub" command in u-boot took unproportionally long compared to other flash operations on that 32bit machine |
| 17:08.44 | webjames | okay timings: 1.47 to get the X i nthe middle of the screen, 2.37 to the first signs of gui, 2.46 till i saw icons, and 2.56 untill fully loaded |
| 17:10.10 | SP8472 | seconds or minutes? ;-) |
| 17:10.12 | happycube | 64-bit mode has many more registers than 32-bit mode |
| 17:10.17 | webjames | minutes |
| 17:10.19 | balrog-kun | or hours? :p |
| 17:10.26 | happycube | so 32-bit may be thrashing to L1 cache a lot more |
| 17:10.27 | balrog-kun | that sounds bad |
| 17:10.31 | webjames | balrog-kun: thats a fresh build |
| 17:10.44 | balrog-kun | webjames: and it was faster before that, right? |
| 17:10.51 | balrog-kun | i mean last week |
| 17:11.01 | webjames | i would say loaded fully in ~12seconds |
| 17:11.11 | webjames | maybe 15 |
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| 17:18.00 | Nebukadneza | hi |
| 17:27.04 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
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| 17:38.03 | SpeedEvil | Something that could be shipped with the neo, to improve reception: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/devon/6654955.stm |
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| 17:39.44 | LuitvD | that's odd... |
| 17:43.50 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@vnsecurity.net) |
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| 17:54.33 | d4rkm3n | hi guys |
| 17:55.21 | aloril | (script) planet: Michael "mickeyl" Lauer: OpenMoko conquers Opie http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/05/14/openmoko-conquers-opie/ |
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| 17:57.23 | d4rkm3n | the first version of neo1973 is not very useful |
| 17:58.01 | d4rkm3n | it has a too small display for touchscreen |
| 17:58.02 | *** join/#openmoko jick (n=jick@222.92.90.170) |
| 17:58.51 | d4rkm3n | and a camera is very important in these days |
| 17:59.22 | d4rkm3n | the second release of neo1973 are planed for 2008? |
| 17:59.26 | drath | guess there are quite a few people here who disagree ;) |
| 17:59.29 | stefan_schmidt | mobile phone cameras are for kids not for business. ;) SCNR |
| 17:59.54 | stefan_schmidt | d4rkm3n: If the first goes well there will be others |
| 18:00.13 | d4rkm3n | stefan_schmidt: do you habe a neo1973? |
| 18:00.16 | d4rkm3n | have |
| 18:00.29 | stefan_schmidt | d4rkm3n: two :) |
| 18:00.50 | d4rkm3n | stefan_schmidt: ca you give me some personal impressions of the display size? |
| 18:00.57 | d4rkm3n | is it too small? |
| 18:01.02 | balrog-kun | the screen is for people with very thin fingers |
| 18:01.12 | d4rkm3n | balrog-kun: :D |
| 18:01.30 | stefan_schmidt | d4rkm3n: what do you mean with small, not the size itself 2,8" I guess |
| 18:01.48 | stefan_schmidt | d4rkm3n: You mean the font on the screen or the resolution? |
| 18:02.05 | d4rkm3n | stefan_schmidt: can you join #openmoko.de ? |
| 18:02.34 | stefan_schmidt | d4rkm3n: why? Splitting channels sounds a bit wired to me |
| 18:02.53 | SpeedEvil | I'd assume it's for people that only speak .de |
| 18:02.55 | d4rkm3n | stefan_schmidt: yeah its hard for me to explain it in english |
| 18:03.09 | stefan_schmidt | d4rkm3n: ok |
| 18:03.10 | d4rkm3n | and your name sounds very german ;D |
| 18:07.11 | aloril2 | Sufflope: ;-) (actually up to 3.8 days) |
| 18:07.59 | buz | is it just me, or is the idea to get discount on more than on p1.5 devices kinda weird= |
| 18:08.23 | SpeedEvil | Where? |
| 18:08.27 | SpeedEvil | New announce? |
| 18:08.53 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
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| 18:12.28 | don-o | counter |
| 18:12.29 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 20:53:52 (1.871 +-1.9 days) (1174;204) |
| 18:12.49 | don-o | wow the counter is really close to zero. someone better reset it for a couple weeks pretty soon and dash all my hopes :) |
| 18:12.52 | SpeedEvil | gg zigbee switch current average freescale |
| 18:12.59 | SpeedEvil | sigh |
| 18:13.08 | don-o | opera user? |
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| 18:17.02 | SpeedEvil | No |
| 18:17.14 | SpeedEvil | I have a tiny bash script to launch lynx |
| 18:17.51 | SpeedEvil | And my laptop was lagging as I was routing a PCB |
| 18:18.03 | LuitvD | pcb for what? |
| 18:18.25 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 18:18.31 | SpeedEvil | ECU |
| 18:19.12 | koen | still no working car? |
| 18:20.21 | LuitvD | what brand of car is it? |
| 18:20.22 | SpeedEvil | I've got a working car. This is for my backup car. |
| 18:20.29 | SpeedEvil | Renault Laguna - 1994 |
| 18:20.40 | SpeedEvil | Backup larger car with tow hook |
| 18:21.25 | SpeedEvil | For sticking in the garage, and insuring only on days I go out with it basically. For towing stuff. |
| 18:22.01 | LuitvD | nice car |
| 18:22.46 | SpeedEvil | Well - no :) |
| 18:22.51 | LuitvD | I can see a silver one from here :P |
| 18:23.17 | LuitvD | it's not ours though... |
| 18:23.41 | LuitvD | my dad has a Volvo 440 :) |
| 18:24.00 | LuitvD | love that car, old and decent |
| 18:24.00 | SpeedEvil | It's got rather more rust than I'd like. |
| 18:24.13 | SpeedEvil | This is old and not especially decent - lots of corrosion on the offside underside |
| 18:24.13 | LuitvD | oeh, that's bad |
| 18:24.57 | LuitvD | that doesn't happen all by itself, or does it? :P |
| 18:25.17 | SpeedEvil | Salt on road. The offside gets more salt spray |
| 18:25.40 | SpeedEvil | OTOH - I can practice welding. And if I kill it, I can scrap it for 2/3 of the buy price |
| 18:26.05 | LuitvD | I don't think we've ever lost a car to rust... |
| 18:26.24 | LuitvD | I don't recall having rust on any car we had actually... |
| 18:27.02 | SpeedEvil | This was a car from the seaside |
| 18:28.09 | buz | SpeedEvil: actually, some guy on the mailing list asks about the discount |
| 18:28.21 | SpeedEvil | Ah |
| 18:28.39 | LuitvD | the only rust we had was on the car that got hit by an iron frame that flew off a roof in a storm :P |
| 18:28.42 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.161.147) |
| 18:29.05 | LuitvD | the place that got hit had a little :P |
| 18:29.24 | mjr | buz, it is weird. Could've been weirder, but then he'd have to have asked Sean for a handjob or something |
| 18:29.43 | LuitvD | XD |
| 18:30.10 | buz | lol, or ask fic to bundle a fleshlight |
| 18:30.27 | LuitvD | aaaah |
| 18:30.30 | LuitvD | that's bad :P |
| 18:30.32 | SpeedEvil | It's got a flashlight |
| 18:30.42 | buz | flEshlight |
| 18:30.48 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: is the screen that bright? |
| 18:31.02 | *** join/#openmoko rboehme (n=rboehme@dsl001-156-033.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 18:31.15 | buz | NSFW, but see www.fleshlight.com |
| 18:31.41 | buz | oh its not so bad |
| 18:31.47 | LuitvD | I just KNOW what it is :P that's the bad part |
| 18:31.56 | buz | ah you got one, then? |
| 18:32.05 | LuitvD | XD nah, it's not that bad |
| 18:32.41 | buz | if you could buy these in normal stores i might give them away for birthday presents |
| 18:33.15 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: No - the stylus has a LED |
| 18:33.31 | LuitvD | which version? "you're an ass, have an ass" :P |
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| 18:33.43 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: ah, right |
| 18:34.00 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: LED and laser? |
| 18:34.06 | LuitvD | or just LED? |
| 18:34.17 | koen | both |
| 18:34.24 | buz | LuitvD: ROTFL |
| 18:34.55 | LuitvD | buz: even funnyer: "you kick ass" |
| 18:35.25 | LuitvD | I don't see why people would want a fleshlight... |
| 18:35.57 | buz | you don't? seems obvious to me |
| 18:35.57 | SpeedEvil | Random (also NSFW) http://www.breastimplants4you.com/glowing_breast_implants.htm |
| 18:36.04 | XorA | laser that goes over 100 yards |
| 18:36.30 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: OMFG, that's nice :P |
| 18:36.49 | buz | i was thinking something much further out |
| 18:37.02 | buz | say filled with glowing stuff or something like that |
| 18:37.42 | LuitvD | like fluorescent additives in the implants? |
| 18:37.45 | XorA | SpeedEvil: so some ultrabright LED's in bra would rock for halloween |
| 18:37.48 | buz | yea hsomething like that |
| 18:37.58 | SpeedEvil | XorA: Only with implants. |
| 18:38.02 | buz | preferably green |
| 18:38.26 | LuitvD | or like those emergency sticks, which you break |
| 18:38.34 | LuitvD | punch-a-breast |
| 18:38.37 | buz | well breat implants should break |
| 18:38.39 | buz | not |
| 18:39.10 | buz | somehow i doubt punch a breast would go over well |
| 18:40.10 | LuitvD | ya think I'm being serious at all? :P |
| 18:40.20 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@84.165.68.123) |
| 18:40.54 | buz | who knows |
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| 19:37.17 | guaqua | testing? |
| 19:38.30 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 19:40.36 | buz | that must be some serious testing then |
| 19:40.54 | guaqua | well how big of a production run was it? |
| 19:41.15 | buz | well not sure, but i'd expect them to have testing capacity for whatever they make |
| 19:41.26 | guaqua | yeah :( |
| 19:41.27 | buz | the fab would be kinda useless if not |
| 19:41.29 | guaqua | err :/ |
| 19:41.42 | guaqua | maybe they had some problems with the run |
| 19:41.50 | buz | whats the use of making stuff if you cant test if its working, after all |
| 19:42.51 | Elrond | *duck* Aren't customers doing that nowadays? ;o) |
| 19:43.07 | buz | well we are supposed to test the software |
| 19:43.13 | buz | that is public knowledge |
| 19:43.30 | Elrond | Right. |
| 19:43.36 | Nebukadneza | counter |
| 19:43.37 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 20:08:17 (1.839 +-1.8 days) (1175;204) |
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| 19:56.21 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[Accelerometer_Fundamentals]] |
| 20:04.09 | don-o | buz: i assumed the production run happened because of the various reports from developers saying they got a neo. it would be interesting to know how many were made and how many will be made on the 20th |
| 20:04.53 | buz | those were from an earlier run |
| 20:04.59 | buz | some time late april |
| 20:11.58 | koen | developers should have taiwanese phones |
| 20:12.10 | koen | customers get chinese phones |
| 20:13.08 | *** join/#openmoko slider (n=sebastia@e182042110.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
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| 20:15.54 | *** part/#openmoko Nebukadneza (n=daddel9@HSI-KBW-085-216-122-115.hsi.kabelbw.de) |
| 20:16.28 | rillian | what regions does the gsm modem support? |
| 20:16.29 | aloril | rillian: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:16.36 | XorA | good news on Neo speed, just installed Angstrom-x11-image and it flies |
| 20:17.33 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 20:17.55 | rillian | wow, the bot was actually right |
| 20:17.58 | rillian | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers |
| 20:28.10 | pjz | XorA: cool; I'm kind of scared that the default image is going to be slow |
| 20:28.39 | koen | XorA: so the overlay is making it slow? |
| 20:28.56 | robtaylor | XorA: what changed? |
| 20:29.25 | Elrond | koen - *lol* |
| 20:29.42 | Elrond | We need a automatic popcorn supply in here. ;o) |
| 20:30.42 | Hopscotch | alphachannel? *ducksandcovers* |
| 20:33.01 | Elrond | Hopscotch - Huh? |
| 20:33.07 | loufoque | anyone has been running python on the neo 1973? |
| 20:34.06 | balrog-kun | the qtopia source tarball has some input methods for phones plugins under GPL |
| 20:34.12 | Elrond | loufoque - If not, I'll be the first. ;-) |
| 20:35.17 | balrog-kun | hmm one of these plugin directories contains a couple of popular books texts from project gutenberg |
| 20:36.12 | Hopscotch | Elrond: i guess most of the slow graphics is because of the transparency effects... |
| 20:36.28 | Hopscotch | Elrond: but most of this has been talked over and over |
| 20:37.06 | webjames | there was talk of having a seperate grfx chip, but i don't think that's happening now, well not yet at least |
| 20:37.08 | koen | Hopscotch: and odd sized pixmaps |
| 20:37.08 | Elrond | Hopscotch - Ahh. I haven't followed all those discussions. |
| 20:37.48 | Hopscotch | webjames: yeah, harald was doing some conspirative negotiations |
| 20:38.07 | Hopscotch | koen: don't wanna think about it - i have my own toolkit here which performs pretty fast |
| 20:38.16 | Hopscotch | koen: sadly it's not client/server |
| 20:38.34 | Hopscotch | Elrond: you don't want to :) |
| 20:38.57 | webjames | Hopscotch: good luck harald |
| 20:39.08 | Hopscotch | :) |
| 20:39.21 | Elrond | Well, a leaner GUI would be nice somtimes, but that's me. |
| 20:40.03 | Hopscotch | Elrond: the gui is very nice - but it's too heavy for the neo... |
| 20:40.15 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 20:40.45 | Elrond | Well, my current phone has a b/w GUI. Very good for reading. |
| 20:42.01 | webjames | i have aD500, bit old now i suppose but very responsive |
| 20:42.30 | pjz | the A780 is fairly decent, but it's only got 1/4 the pixelcount |
| 20:42.44 | pjz | and it does get slow sometimes, though it's mostly decent |
| 20:42.56 | Hopscotch | i have a nokia 9500 with "§&%§$/&§ symbian - which is also slooooooow |
| 20:43.00 | Hopscotch | but still usable |
| 20:43.33 | pjz | wow, is www.angstrom-distribution.org on the moon or something? sloooow site |
| 20:51.20 | *** join/#openmoko BenC_ (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
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| 21:00.36 | Elrond | Hi woglinde! |
| 21:01.33 | woglinde | hi elrond |
| 21:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko fix__ (n=fix@cable-87-244-191-199.upc.chello.be) |
| 21:01.48 | rillian | I was running 'make' with MokoMakefile, but mtn failed to complete an update. What can I do to restart things? |
| 21:01.59 | zecke | make? |
| 21:02.05 | rillian | mtn: misuse: no such revision 'f499733e6db527846e1a48cf70f9862d6b3798ae' |
| 21:02.05 | rillian | make: *** [openembedded/_MTN/revision] Error 1 |
| 21:02.19 | zecke | while true; make; |
| 21:02.39 | zecke | rillian: well, did it work before? |
| 21:02.50 | rillian | this is the first time I've run it |
| 21:03.21 | zecke | rillian: what is the first error you get? |
| 21:03.37 | rillian | zecke: $ make |
| 21:03.38 | rillian | [ -e openembedded/_MTN/revision ] || \ |
| 21:03.38 | rillian | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:03.38 | rillian | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:03.38 | rillian | mtn: misuse: no such revision 'f499733e6db527846e1a48cf70f9862d6b3798ae' |
| 21:03.38 | rillian | make: *** [openembedded/_MTN/revision] Error 1 |
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| 21:06.43 | zecke | rillian: monotone.ca and consider doing a pull? |
| 21:10.41 | webjames | rillian follow the manual setup on the wiki, make file doesn't work with qemu any more |
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| 21:22.19 | rillian | well, 'make update-makefile' did something, but now it's downloading OE.mtn.bz2 again :( |
| 21:28.14 | webjames | rillian: yeah, it doesn't work. i have tried, if you goto http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEMU#Manual_setup and just input the 3or so commands into terminal you will have it up and running |
| 21:28.42 | webjames | rillian: don't forget the openmoko/download.sh and then openmoko/flash.sh |
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| 21:30.13 | webjames | rillian: also with mokemakefile you need to run 'make setup' with the manual way it is much faster |
| 21:30.24 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@pd956a57b.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:32.12 | XorA | robtaylor: gtk+ 2.10.12 and no alpha blended theme |
| 21:32.33 | webjames | rillian: not to mention makemakefile doesn't work, but the manual way does |
| 21:33.52 | *** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 21:35.22 | robtaylor | XorA: ah, cool, so is sapwood on the menu? |
| 21:35.30 | robtaylor | *again |
| 21:38.19 | XorA | robtaylor: sapwood? |
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| 21:46.58 | dt1 | Is the OpenMoko Neo1973 phone going to work in the US |
| 21:47.08 | dt1 | ? |
| 21:47.08 | aloril | dt1: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:49.16 | SpeedEvil | It's a GSM phone, some carriers offer it |
| 21:49.18 | dt1 | But doesn't US and Japanese GSM use different frequencies than the rest of the world? |
| 21:49.18 | SpeedEvil | It's a quadband phone. |
| 21:49.18 | SpeedEvil | Anywhere there is GSM |
| 21:49.18 | dt1 | Awesome |
| 21:49.48 | rillian | webjames: that worked, thanks! |
| 21:49.51 | rillian | much faster too |
| 21:49.55 | Elrond | US carriers sometime use this other thing, right? |
| 21:50.01 | rillian | and looks just like the phone, only much bigger :) |
| 21:50.08 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: yues |
| 21:50.17 | sparq | Elrond: The US has a bunch of different protocols, of which GSM is one |
| 21:50.29 | dt1 | Is it possible to get one right now? I have a lot of experience with OpenEmbedded on Zaurus's |
| 21:50.33 | Elrond | sparq - Ahh. |
| 21:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko dcorking (n=dcorking@82.152.174.246) |
| 21:50.39 | sparq | Elrond: Happily, they are slowly going away, one by one. |
| 21:50.41 | SpeedEvil | dt1: a weekish |
| 21:50.44 | SpeedEvil | maybe two. |
| 21:50.54 | dt1 | cool |
| 21:50.58 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You mean the non-gsm ones? |
| 21:51.48 | Elrond | *arg* |
| 21:51.56 | dt1 | Aren't CDMA and PCS the other two biggest American types of carrier? |
| 21:51.57 | Elrond | sparq - You mean the non-gsm ones? |
| 21:52.16 | sparq | Elrond: Yeah. |
| 21:52.43 | Elrond | Good for the neo. ;) |
| 21:53.03 | sparq | Elrond: If I remember correctly, we used to have TDMA, CDMA, PCS, GSM, and two analog protocols. |
| 21:53.06 | happycube | yeah there's basically CDMA and GSM at this point |
| 21:53.15 | happycube | tdma towers get shut down in ~march 2008 |
| 21:53.19 | SpeedEvil | And the analogue standards. |
| 21:53.22 | happycube | those too |
| 21:53.32 | robtaylor | XorA: the pixmap caching server from hildon |
| 21:53.45 | happycube | which is pretty unfortunate since there are areas that only analog reached (until recently?) |
| 21:53.48 | SpeedEvil | I think those went away in 1993ish |
| 21:53.50 | SpeedEvil | (UK) |
| 21:53.57 | XorA | robtaylor: no idea, just whatever Angstrom builds with |
| 21:54.08 | SpeedEvil | GSM has a short range - 15Km radius or diameter. |
| 21:54.13 | SpeedEvil | So you need a lot of places. |
| 21:54.16 | dt1 | Is the OpenMoko project in communications with Ubuntu, since they are attempting to establish another Portable platform |
| 21:54.35 | dt1 | ignore the caps there |
| 21:54.38 | *** join/#openmoko d4rkm3n (n=dark@blfd-4db51e46.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 21:54.49 | robtaylor | dt1: well, they're both based around the GNOME Embedded stach |
| 21:54.56 | robtaylor | *stack |
| 21:55.13 | sparq | I think PCS and CDMA are technically superior to GSM, but they shot it in the foot by making it really expensive to license and by designing it to bond the customer forever to one carrier. |
| 21:55.28 | dt1 | but Angstrom is using the pseudo Debianish tools right? Or is it going to use dpkg and apt |
| 21:55.51 | robtaylor | dt1: well, ipkg is roughly like dpkg |
| 21:56.05 | robtaylor | dt1: but the distros are completely different |
| 21:56.10 | dt1 | right |
| 21:56.29 | Elrond | sparq - Any two-sentence joe-dummy-can-understand comments why cdma/PCS are "technically superior"? |
| 21:56.30 | dt1 | Is there actually an advantage of ipkg of dpkg? |
| 21:56.47 | dt1 | I didn't think dpkg was really all that heavy either |
| 21:57.11 | robtaylor | dt1: no, it isn't, but thats not really part of the equasion |
| 21:57.16 | XorA | Elrond: well 3G is based on CDMA :-) |
| 21:57.32 | Elrond | XorA - Ahh. |
| 21:58.38 | robtaylor | dt1: debs produced from OE/Angstrom would be nothing like debs from ubuntu |
| 21:58.39 | dt1 | yeah, due to versioning differences and different configure options and stuff |
| 21:58.39 | robtaylor | dt1: also, ubuntu mobile isn't actually building on arm, or even perticularly optimised yet |
| 21:58.40 | XorA | Elrond: ETSI and 3GPP think they avoided qualcom patents, qualcom doesnt think they did, court battle is currently progressing |
| 21:58.40 | robtaylor | dt1: well, due to the packaging being completely different |
| 21:58.40 | dt1 | Do they even have a target set yet? |
| 21:58.41 | dt1 | Hardware, I mean |
| 21:58.56 | robtaylor | dt1: ubuntu? the intel thingie |
| 21:59.00 | sparq | Elrond: More calls for the same slice of bandwidth. |
| 21:59.19 | dt1 | I guess I should read up more on it |
| 21:59.38 | dt1 | I just want one or two well established open Linux platforms |
| 21:59.51 | dcorking | PCS is just a name for the digital cellular wavebands licensed in the US - including GSM 1900 - so I don't think it is superior |
| 22:00.21 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[VibratorAsKeyboardClick]] |
| 22:00.38 | dcorking | but CDMA makes more efficient use of spectrum than GSM |
| 22:00.39 | sparq | dcorking: really? I'm pretty sure that PCS is a military protocol that Sprint licensed back in the early 1990's |
| 22:00.43 | robtaylor | dt1: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS2403415870.html |
| 22:01.17 | dt1 | oh |
| 22:01.19 | dcorking | interesting - when FCC announced PCS they announced the licensing process that brought in CDMA and GSM 1900 |
| 22:01.22 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 22:01.26 | dt1 | well, not an issue then |
| 22:01.31 | dt1 | ;-) |
| 22:01.43 | dcorking | but CDMA almost certainly has military history |
| 22:01.56 | robtaylor | dt1: http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS4844817737.html |
| 22:02.35 | sparq | dcorking: Ah. I think PCS stands for a band of spectrum *and* a protocol. It's an overloaded acronym |
| 22:02.54 | dcorking | I don't think it is too important thought, as no-one outside the US uses the term PCS much ... |
| 22:03.05 | dt1 | Cool |
| 22:03.13 | dcorking | ... and I stand corrected - I didn't realise it had been overloaded like that |
| 22:03.15 | don-o | robtaylor: cool. avahi/zeroconf is part of the stack. |
| 22:04.29 | Elrond | What is all this avahi zeroconf hype about? |
| 22:04.40 | dcorking | is it polite to ask how the may 10th production run is going? |
| 22:04.40 | aloril | dcorking: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 22:04.49 | dt1 | Eh, its just for people who don't like NetBIOS ;-) |
| 22:05.12 | robtaylor | don-o: oh yes :) |
| 22:05.15 | XorA | Elrond: plug stuff in, and it announces itself, your desktop can then find it easilly |
| 22:05.26 | robtaylor | don-o: sson i expect HAL and Tinymail to be going in |
| 22:05.27 | sparq | dcorking: I'm not sure it really counts as a correction, since I bet most pop-literature doesn't realize that there is a distinction. Baah. Stupid acronyms. |
| 22:06.11 | Elrond | XorA - So the better netbios? ;o) |
| 22:06.32 | dcorking | sparq - is it true that the CDMA as used by say, Verizon, is not compatible with say, Sprint and Cingular? |
| 22:06.34 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 22:06.40 | dt1 | Yeah, service oriented anouncement/discovery |
| 22:06.49 | XorA | Elrond: oh yes |
| 22:06.53 | sparq | dcorking: yes, you are correct. |
| 22:07.15 | sparq | dcorking: Even if they use the same protocols, the handsets are permenantly bonded to the network. |
| 22:07.31 | dt1 | Does the current rev hardware have 802.11? |
| 22:07.37 | Elrond | Hmm, so I want a compile without that. ;) |
| 22:07.54 | dt1 | or is that even planned? |
| 22:09.30 | dcorking | dtl - the Phase 1+ hardware has 802.11 |
| 22:09.55 | dt1 | is that what's coming in 2 weeks or so? |
| 22:11.07 | dcorking | dtl - no |
| 22:12.36 | noidd | re |
| 22:12.42 | sparq | I see lower phone bills in my future... and possibly building a stripped-down Ekiga client |
| 22:12.52 | dt1 | When wifi is around, thats what I want |
| 22:12.59 | SpeedEvil | In hopefully under 2 weeks is the current version |
| 22:13.07 | Elrond | It has BT, that should work for "network via air at home", no? |
| 22:13.09 | SpeedEvil | the version with wifi is a couple of months out |
| 22:13.14 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 22:13.16 | dcorking | dtl - see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 "Phase 1+ details around June" |
| 22:13.22 | SpeedEvil | But the range sucks. |
| 22:13.31 | sparq | Elrond: Slowly. With crummy range and lots of fiddling. |
| 22:13.38 | SpeedEvil | And there are no real existing hubs. |
| 22:13.43 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: have you seen the WiFi chipset in action? |
| 22:13.45 | pjz | but I mostly want net on my moko when I'm near a machine anyway |
| 22:13.46 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 22:13.50 | pjz | er, fast net that is |
| 22:13.51 | SpeedEvil | I mean bluetooth. |
| 22:13.56 | Elrond | sparq - is it that bad? |
| 22:14.01 | sparq | Elrond: Sadly. |
| 22:14.08 | SpeedEvil | You may get better range with a 5m USB cable. |
| 22:14.14 | SpeedEvil | Certainly better battery life. |
| 22:14.30 | dt1 | so bluetooth range sucks, but not wifi? |
| 22:14.32 | dcorking | I will be happy with bluetooth and GPRS for the first few months |
| 22:14.37 | Elrond | I will use a 5m usb cable anyway. :) |
| 22:14.48 | SpeedEvil | wifi should be at least 30m or so. |
| 22:14.56 | SpeedEvil | In clear areas. |
| 22:14.56 | dt1 | oh, thats not bad |
| 22:14.58 | sparq | Elrond: Bluetooth is about good enough to use a wireless headset, but the protocol doesn't have any advantanges over WiFi other than that. |
| 22:15.11 | SpeedEvil | sparq: design for low power. |
| 22:15.19 | dcorking | we can also use a USB wifi dongle - if we can get power to it (I may have to learn to use a soldering iron :) ) |
| 22:15.30 | rwhitby | I use bluetooth for Treo650 access all over my house. |
| 22:15.39 | rwhitby | (Treo650 internet access, not headset) |
| 22:15.45 | SpeedEvil | dcorking: It may be possible to pull the bluetooth module, ans substitute a wifi one. |
| 22:15.53 | rwhitby | (and also at my workplace) |
| 22:15.55 | SpeedEvil | This will hurt battery life when enabled. |
| 22:15.58 | sparq | SpeedEvil: True, but the 802.11 spec has enough flexibility to make a low power 2mbps chip that will happily interoperate with all modern hardware |
| 22:16.34 | dt1 | So how would one go about getting a unit to test out in a couple weeks? |
| 22:16.37 | SpeedEvil | Bluetooth lets you by design turn off the radio completely for long periods. |
| 22:16.40 | SpeedEvil | That helps lots. |
| 22:16.48 | SpeedEvil | dt1: save up $350 |
| 22:17.00 | SpeedEvil | Or have a very good resume of work done |
| 22:17.16 | dcorking | so no news on the May 10th run :( |
| 22:17.21 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 22:17.29 | SpeedEvil | What's it for? |
| 22:17.32 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:17.35 | dcorking | dtl - wait on the announce mailing list for the orders to be announced |
| 22:18.13 | dt1 | Eh, I've only contributed some to a few projects: inkscape, gphoto, firebird |
| 22:18.17 | dt1 | does that qualify me |
| 22:18.22 | dt1 | :-P |
| 22:18.53 | sparq | rwhitby: You must have a fantastically clean radio environment! |
| 22:19.05 | dcorking | dtl -as far as I understand you only need the cash to qualify for Phase 1 |
| 22:19.10 | dt1 | haha |
| 22:19.11 | dt1 | ok |
| 22:19.11 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 22:19.17 | dt1 | not a problem anyways |
| 22:19.36 | dt1 | My work will get it for me |
| 22:19.37 | dt1 | :-P |
| 22:19.56 | sparq | rwhitby: When I walk down the street in LA, there are so many WiFi networks chattering away in the 2.4 Ghz band that my Bluetooth headset is totally useless |
| 22:20.00 | noidd | always nice to have access to a corporate checkbook :-}) |
| 22:20.08 | dt1 | Does it have USB Host? |
| 22:20.17 | Vegar | yes, but unpowered |
| 22:20.30 | dt1 | but with a powered hub its not an issue right? |
| 22:20.49 | robtaylor | dt1: who's your work, if you don't mind me asking? :) |
| 22:21.04 | XorA | anyone played with gprs on Neo? |
| 22:21.13 | dt1 | small company called Heavenly Photos |
| 22:21.20 | arw | see you tomorrow |
| 22:21.25 | SpeedEvil | dt1: Most powered hubs will not actually talk to unpowered hosts. |
| 22:21.36 | dt1 | hmmm |
| 22:21.36 | SpeedEvil | You need a little cable to apply +5V to the hub input. |
| 22:22.04 | dcorking | how is that done SpeedEvil? |
| 22:22.07 | *** part/#openmoko arw (i=root@gateway/tor/x-691bf56319e0d550) |
| 22:22.34 | SpeedEvil | Basically, you connect the red wire of the USB cable that plugs into the host side of the hub to some source of +5V |
| 22:22.39 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: do I take a knife to a USB plug and splice in 5V and 0V from somewhere |
| 22:22.43 | dt1 | so the batter powered hub still needs the +5V? |
| 22:22.46 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: or to do a bit of soldering inside the hub |
| 22:22.48 | dt1 | battery |
| 22:22.53 | SpeedEvil | Battery powered hubs probably don't. |
| 22:23.05 | dt1 | cool |
| 22:23.07 | dt1 | not an issue then |
| 22:23.21 | XorA | The n770 guys solved the usb hub problem long ago, so google pages they wrote |
| 22:23.22 | dt1 | Is USB2 or 1.1? |
| 22:23.29 | dcorking | are the conductor colours standard in USB cables? |
| 22:23.30 | SpeedEvil | 1./1 |
| 22:23.48 | dcorking | 1.1 is fast enough for 802.11b (not g) |
| 22:23.50 | SpeedEvil | dcorking: I've only ever seen black, red, green and grey |
| 22:23.58 | SpeedEvil | black and red are +5 and 0 |
| 22:24.02 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 22:24.03 | dt1 | Man, I wish there was a decent portable USB2 High Speed host |
| 22:24.04 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: I never cut one open :) |
| 22:24.05 | SpeedEvil | otehr way |
| 22:24.30 | dcorking | green and grey are data then |
| 22:24.39 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 22:24.41 | SpeedEvil | D+ and D- |
| 22:24.53 | SpeedEvil | Shield is seperate. |
| 22:25.10 | Elrond | dt1 - The host part has not yet been test, I think. |
| 22:25.28 | dt1 | oh |
| 22:25.52 | dt1 | Well, thanks for the answers, guys, I gotta get going. later |
| 22:25.57 | SpeedEvil | Wave |
| 22:26.08 | dcorking | googling as suggested - thanks XorA |
| 22:26.28 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: shield is uninsulated? |
| 22:26.41 | SpeedEvil | No - it's connected to the shell of the connector |
| 22:27.34 | dcorking | I just looked at N770 prices - now the same as a Phase 1 Neo1973 |
| 22:28.04 | dcorking | this is a hard choice for tiny Tablet PC - do I want one with WiFi or GSM ? |
| 22:28.04 | Vegar | does the N770 have GSM? |
| 22:28.10 | robtaylor | no |
| 22:30.01 | dcorking | I won't buy one of each - I don't have the money or time to play with bothh! |
| 22:30.12 | Vegar | then wait for P1+ |
| 22:30.13 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:30.55 | dcorking | I waited for 4 months for P1 - |
| 22:32.16 | SpeedEvil | The 770 has a much better screen though |
| 22:32.17 | Elrond | Good night people. :) |
| 22:32.17 | SpeedEvil | Night |
| 22:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9bea615.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 22:33.49 | quitte | counter |
| 22:33.50 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: a day 18:43:11 (1.780 +-1.8 days) (1176;204) |
| 22:35.59 | parag0n | P1: a day 18:43:11 <- hahaha, as if |
| 22:36.21 | parag0n | i've seen that counter get to 0 too many times to trust it anymore :P |
| 22:37.12 | don-o | parag0n: amen, brother. |
| 22:38.29 | webjames | well i've got exams till thursday so i think friday would be nice if it were to carry news of the phase1 release and of the phase1+ information |
| 22:41.04 | sparq | To avoid soldering (and potentially blowing up your hub and/or Neo) : http://www.siliconchip.com.au/cms/A_102685/article.html |
| 22:41.27 | dcorking | googling suggests you can even buy a couple of cables to do the hack that SpeedEvil suggests - no home cutting and soldering of USB cables http://tabletblog.com/2006/01/no-solder-usb-host-method.html |
| 22:42.05 | Vegar | that was a very 404 URL |
| 22:42.32 | dcorking | Vegar: mine or sparq's ? |
| 22:42.41 | Vegar | your |
| 22:42.43 | Psi | dcorking, your urls works fine for me |
| 22:42.56 | Psi | *url |
| 22:43.39 | Vegar | works now |
| 22:45.51 | dcorking | anyone know if the Neo1973 will work with a USIM (apparently a lot of new 2G phones work with a USIM) or with only an old 2G SIM ? |
| 22:54.29 | don-o | oh man there are different SIM cards? |
| 22:54.51 | Vegar | I believe USIM is a UTMS SIM card |
| 22:55.15 | dcorking | right Vegar |
| 22:56.02 | dcorking | I think you mean UMTS - which is the 3G evolution of GSM |
| 22:56.15 | Vegar | yes, it was a typo |
| 22:56.53 | Vegar | that reminds me.. |
| 22:57.11 | Vegar | my provider gave me a SIM card that supports 3G |
| 22:57.28 | Vegar | I wonder what that means |
| 22:57.43 | Vegar | because I can use it with my ancient phone |
| 22:58.35 | dcorking | no - it is confusing - I think the engineers that really understand the difference are in high demand :) |
| 22:58.46 | balrog-kun | does the modem always print the greeting and the OK everytime you open /dev/ttyS0? |
| 23:02.15 | *** join/#openmoko bh1 (n=bh1@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 23:02.42 | loufoque | my provider charges a ridiculously huge amount for 3G anyway |
| 23:03.56 | dcorking | that is good to know folks - I think a will start with a PayG SIM - but as data is ridiculously expensive on that - I will also try a Hutchison contract USIM |
| 23:04.08 | SpeedEvil | dcorking: where? |
| 23:04.17 | dcorking | UK mostly |
| 23:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@lime-gw16.one.at) |
| 23:04.30 | SpeedEvil | Orange does data on PAYG for a pound a day. |
| 23:04.37 | SpeedEvil | Which isn't bad for occasional use. |
| 23:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@cpe-065-190-188-124.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:04.48 | SpeedEvil | Virgin does it for 7 quid extra a month on their contracts |
| 23:05.28 | dcorking | thanks - I hear T-Mobile do a reasonable price on contracts too. |
| 23:06.43 | dcorking | Three (Hutschision have £2.50 a month for 'mobile internet' - that means from the phone but not as modem - if that works on an open phone it will be hard to beat) |
| 23:10.01 | SpeedEvil | Three ban GSM only phones. |
| 23:10.19 | SpeedEvil | They pay roaming charges for people using GSM handsets. |
| 23:10.21 | Psi | loufoque, hm.. you made me think about sim cards, aren't there different voltage ones? |
| 23:10.35 | SpeedEvil | It may work for a while. |
| 23:11.04 | Psi | i seem to remember the old simcards were different voltage to the new ones |
| 23:11.14 | Psi | but i could be thinking of something else |
| 23:11.38 | dcorking | Maybe that is why my 3 SIM doesn't work in 2G phones |
| 23:13.12 | dcorking | I wanted to put my 3 SIM in a GSM phone because some places I work have very poor 3G coverage, yet the phone keeps trying to rove into 3G and gets disconnected. |
| 23:13.52 | SpeedEvil | 3 will eventually ban your phone AIUI. |
| 23:13.58 | dcorking | but no beef - so I am afraid it will be the same if I put my Three USIM in a Neo1973 |
| 23:14.11 | dcorking | what is an AIUI ? |
| 23:14.23 | SpeedEvil | As I Understand IT |
| 23:15.46 | dcorking | SpeedEvil: :) - I thought you meant something like an IMSI or an IMEI , hehe |
| 23:25.03 | dcorking | bye |
| 23:25.28 | loufoque | Psi: no idea |
| 23:38.58 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 23:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-109.cust.wildblue.net) |
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| 23:56.52 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ottawa-hs-206-191-56-182.d-ip.magma.ca) |
