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| 00:01.59 | *** join/#openmoko kensan (n=ken@gw.ptr-80-238-133-63.customer.ch.netstream.com) |
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| 00:16.37 | Elrond | BTW: I remember, that the P0 had problems when the battery was completely exhausted. It could not even recharge it. Is that a hardware problem? Or has it been fixed in u-boot? |
| 00:16.58 | CoreDump|home | the latter |
| 00:17.44 | *** join/#openmoko merriam__ (n=merriam@85-211-245-180.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 00:19.07 | Elrond | So I can use a completely empty battery and charge it using the neo? |
| 00:19.21 | Elrond | s/neo/neo P0 |
| 00:25.08 | CoreDump|home | yeah |
| 00:25.29 | CoreDump|home | assuming you've updated u-boot |
| 00:28.57 | Elrond | Good! |
| 00:44.01 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72.173.29.109) |
| 00:45.07 | Elrond | Any news on gsm firmware updates? |
| 00:45.35 | Elrond | (for p0) |
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| 03:10.50 | Low-Fi | Anyone alive here? |
| 03:10.51 | aloril | Low-Fi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:11.03 | aloril | hi Low-Fi |
| 03:11.35 | Low-Fi | hi aloril - This is my first time in the channel... |
| 03:12.10 | Low-Fi | Is there a lot of dev talk here or general chat or what? |
| 03:12.44 | aloril | both |
| 03:12.52 | Low-Fi | I'm interested in getting a dev unit but I thought I'd ask what everyone else thought first |
| 03:12.58 | aloril | but right now its quiet ;-) |
| 03:13.06 | aloril | counter |
| 03:13.06 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 3 days 04:23:32 (3.183 +-3.2 days) (1150;201) |
| 03:13.26 | aloril | not yet really available :-( |
| 03:13.35 | aloril | hopefully soon though |
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| 03:13.47 | Low-Fi | Hmm didn't they originally say March? |
| 03:14.49 | aloril | yes, there were hardware bugs and then there were screen availability problems: together delay until possibly next week |
| 03:15.20 | Low-Fi | I about killed my SE w600 today and I'm itching to get this thing... guess I need to find another gsm phone to get me by |
| 03:16.12 | Low-Fi | Any word on if it'll be functional as a phone out of the box? |
| 03:16.13 | aloril | should be |
| 03:17.31 | Low-Fi | I noticed a strong resemblance to the new Helio Ocean, I wonder if anyone else noticed that |
| 03:25.10 | aevin | Low-Fi: url for pics? |
| 03:25.20 | Low-Fi | h/o |
| 03:25.38 | aevin | i got them :) never mind. |
| 03:25.53 | Low-Fi | http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/26/the-helio-ocean/ |
| 03:25.55 | Low-Fi | k |
| 03:26.01 | aevin | that Ocean got buttons. lot's of them. |
| 03:26.34 | Low-Fi | yeah but if you took that away, there's a striking resemblance if ya ask me |
| 03:26.35 | aevin | but when it's closed, I guess there's quite some resemblence, yes. |
| 03:27.16 | aevin | that oval form. with the "ears" on both ends of the screen. |
| 03:27.54 | Low-Fi | yes |
| 03:28.21 | aevin | i guess it wont be as hackable as the neo, so it's an easy choice for me :) |
| 03:28.26 | Low-Fi | Is there any external memory support (hardware wise) on the moko? |
| 03:28.42 | Low-Fi | SD card slot? |
| 03:29.07 | aevin | there's one for mini-SD, i htink |
| 03:29.36 | aevin | located underneath the battery though (if that's what you meant by "external") |
| 03:29.58 | Low-Fi | yeah thats good enough |
| 03:30.37 | Low-Fi | I can't decide if I want to jump on the initial bandwagon or wait till the hardware refresh |
| 03:31.49 | aevin | if you can't make up your mind atm, don't worry. |
| 03:32.18 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-76-204-94-2.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 03:32.55 | aloril | micro-SD |
| 03:33.07 | aevin | there'll be more info about a possibly upgrade deal for early buyers when the sale starst, so there'll be more info around making it perhpas easier to decide then. |
| 03:33.23 | aloril | 4GB is untested yet, nobody has been able to buy one yet |
| 03:33.35 | aevin | aloril: ah, yes. that's the name of the dog. i'm not that into the terminology. |
| 03:35.08 | *** join/#openmoko Richard (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 03:35.17 | aevin | *plow through that huge homr-brew IR thread on the dev ML* |
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| 04:31.29 | Richard | Hi, How to convert .dot files to image files using dot? |
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| 05:26.38 | bill_gates | Hey there. |
| 05:30.50 | aloril | hi bill_gates |
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| 06:27.18 | dotmef | counter |
| 06:27.18 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 3 days 02:46:26 (3.116 +-3.1 days) (1151;201) |
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| 07:59.26 | PBeck | hi |
| 08:03.17 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:03.29 | sannes | morning :) |
| 08:04.05 | xkr47 | hewwo |
| 08:05.09 | roh | morning |
| 08:07.55 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (i=Mac@p57A2BCC6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:08.00 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 08:15.48 | keesj | Hi |
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| 08:58.47 | CoreDump|home | DHL was here a few minutes ago =) |
| 08:59.33 | TRIsoft | Nice. Looks like you'll have some fun for the weekend ;-) |
| 08:59.37 | CoreDump|home | indeed |
| 09:09.04 | noidd | grats coredump |
| 09:09.22 | CoreDump|home | noidd: thanks |
| 09:10.50 | noidd | I left my G4 at work "charging" |
| 09:11.15 | noidd | I may have to do the hour and a half drive to go retrieve it |
| 09:11.22 | CoreDump|home | :\ |
| 09:11.34 | noidd | I was having charging issues the last few days. |
| 09:11.44 | CoreDump|home | My notebook resets the USB ports randomly while charging neo :\ |
| 09:11.47 | noidd | probably because I couldn't leave it alone long enough for it to get a full charge :-D |
| 09:15.23 | noidd | I need to change the uboot setting for charging is what i need to do |
| 09:15.30 | noidd | anyways - gotta finish that build machine |
| 09:15.33 | noidd | ho hum |
| 09:19.54 | Hopscotch | has anybody of you with a device ever had a gps lock? |
| 09:20.45 | CoreDump|home | there is no GPS driver yet, so I really doubt it |
| 09:21.25 | Hopscotch | on the p1 is a directory DM2 in /root which contains the gllin |
| 09:21.30 | koen | right |
| 09:21.42 | koen | and the 'DM' apps has a GPS test field |
| 09:22.48 | koen | but uboot on my p1 doesn't erase NAND properly when reflashing, so I need to fix that first before continueing the gps efforts |
| 09:23.18 | Hopscotch | ah, so you're working on gps then? |
| 09:24.03 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:24.13 | koen | yes |
| 09:24.35 | Hopscotch | ah, ok |
| 09:24.35 | koen | but I first wanted to get rid of that buggy piece of crap that's called 'official firmware' |
| 09:24.41 | Hopscotch | :) |
| 09:24.53 | Hopscotch | yeah, i need to rebuild the dev environment as well |
| 09:28.48 | Elrond | koen - The images have those DM apps? |
| 09:29.04 | koen | afaik now not |
| 09:29.12 | koen | but that's where 'tar' comes in |
| 09:29.22 | Elrond | Huh? |
| 09:29.43 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.161.147) |
| 09:31.59 | Hopscotch | hmm |
| 09:32.05 | Hopscotch | i don't think gps does work |
| 09:32.10 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: The image that came pre-installed on P1 had the DM stuff, the regular images do not |
| 09:32.46 | balrog-kun | can the DM stuff be downloaded somewhere? |
| 09:33.35 | *** join/#openmoko hugo_nz (n=hugo@132.181.52.15) |
| 09:33.36 | CoreDump|home | not unless someone uploads it first =) |
| 09:34.13 | balrog-kun | and the license on it is unknown? |
| 09:37.12 | _buz | Reuters reported that the handset Nokia 1100 has claimed the title of the most popular device throughout the history of consumer electronics: since its official launch in 2003, more than 200 million units have been sold world-wide |
| 09:37.16 | _buz | thats quite a mark to beat ;) |
| 09:37.30 | Hopscotch | i don't think that the hardware testapp will do anything useful in the emu |
| 09:37.32 | CoreDump|home | impressive |
| 09:38.51 | _buz | fic definitely needs a cheap lowend moko device ;) |
| 09:39.04 | _buz | the 100$ neo ;) |
| 09:39.35 | balrog-kun | Hopscotch: it would be useful for me to point me out places where the emulator needs more work |
| 09:39.46 | _buz | (which then goes on sale at 175$ of coursE) |
| 09:40.08 | Hopscotch | hmmm... true... |
| 09:40.32 | Hopscotch | but i signed the nda and i guess it would not be a good idea to upload the stuff without asking someone from core first |
| 09:43.25 | balrog-kun | that's no problem, already resolved :) |
| 09:45.48 | SpeedEvil | I want a $100 neo. |
| 09:46.26 | SpeedEvil | b+w 256*256 display, numpad + joystick, GSM, SD slot |
| 09:47.08 | SpeedEvil | The nk1100 is an awesome device. |
| 09:51.29 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I could imagine something like that coming up. The neo was probably designed for geeks. They love (as most humans are eye centric) nice displays (and I guess, that's one of the expensive parts of the Neo). ;-) |
| 09:51.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 09:53.06 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=rd@segfault.net) |
| 09:53.22 | _buz | the problem is tha tmost software probably wont run on 256pixel very well |
| 09:53.32 | SpeedEvil | True - ATM. |
| 09:56.28 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 09:57.38 | CoreDump|home | s/slimmed down/uglyfied ;) |
| 09:58.21 | _buz | that screen amazes me everytime i see a photo |
| 09:58.47 | Elrond | _buz - Yeah. |
| 09:59.21 | Elrond | koen - What is the cable going to the right? |
| 09:59.36 | CoreDump|home | _buz: The screen is an absolute dream |
| 09:59.38 | koen | the cable to the GPS antenna |
| 10:00.01 | koen | the picture is rotated 90 degrees :) |
| 10:00.08 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081EA71.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:00.14 | SpeedEvil | koen: V3 or V4? |
| 10:00.28 | SpeedEvil | If it's V4, can we have a close-up of the back of the PCB ? |
| 10:01.52 | koen | v3 |
| 10:02.04 | webjames | i always thought that the 1100 was a good idea, but i never knew how popular is was! |
| 10:02.42 | balrog-kun | o_O the -moko9 kernels still report -moko8 through "uname -r" |
| 10:03.05 | koen | balrog-kun: see my remarks about buggy crap called openmoko svn |
| 10:03.19 | balrog-kun | *nods* |
| 10:03.29 | koen | balrog-kun: in OE .dev I keep the .config in sync with the correct moko<number> |
| 10:03.37 | CoreDump|home | koen: come on, it ain't _that_ bad |
| 10:03.39 | Elrond | koen - Did you get anywhere using the dm apps and the gps? |
| 10:04.12 | koen | heh |
| 10:04.21 | koen | the rats are a big big to serve as a mouse |
| 10:04.48 | SpeedEvil | No. Think TeleTubby. |
| 10:07.50 | Elrond | koen - Did you get anywhere using the dm apps and the gps? |
| 10:08.09 | koen | not yet |
| 10:08.32 | Elrond | So the power_up sequence is still borked? |
| 10:09.01 | koen | no, uboot is broken |
| 10:09.03 | koen | *again* |
| 10:09.20 | Elrond | Huh, what's the relation between u-boot and the gps? |
| 10:09.41 | koen | I wanted to flash a sane image instead of that broken crap it came with |
| 10:09.56 | koen | having every app segfault is not good |
| 10:10.05 | Elrond | yuck. |
| 10:10.25 | *** join/#openmoko Herod2k (n=herod@82.84.27.137) |
| 10:11.33 | Elrond | koen - The standard images on the buildhost are also b0rked? |
| 10:11.45 | koen | dunno |
| 10:11.47 | Herod2k | some one can help me? |
| 10:11.54 | koen | or rather "most likely" |
| 10:12.06 | koen | since buildhost still uses that crappy svn overlay |
| 10:12.06 | Herod2k | where are pot files? |
| 10:12.09 | Elrond | Herod2k - just ask and hope. |
| 10:12.15 | Herod2k | asd |
| 10:12.36 | Elrond | Herod2k - Hmm, you checked the Trnaslation HOWTO on the wiki? |
| 10:12.48 | Herod2k | yes |
| 10:13.08 | Elrond | I never looked into translation at all. I just hoped the HOWTO would be any good. |
| 10:13.26 | Herod2k | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Translation_HOWTO |
| 10:13.30 | Herod2k | this.. |
| 10:13.35 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k957.webspeed.dk) |
| 10:13.36 | Elrond | Yep, that. |
| 10:13.45 | Herod2k | First of all package creator/maintainer have to create *.pot file with all messages included. Search for this files in source tree and you can edit them. |
| 10:14.19 | Herod2k | ok Elrond |
| 10:14.27 | Herod2k | thanks |
| 10:16.00 | Elrond | Herod2k - Hmm, I guess, you have to use the gettext-tools to extract a *.pot from the sources yourself. Could that be possible? |
| 10:17.01 | Herod2k | I don't know |
| 10:17.05 | Herod2k | i can try |
| 10:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@7.Red-88-24-249.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 10:18.12 | Elrond | Hmm, I just on "good luck" chedked the sources of openmoko-today... I couldn't find any tagged strings. |
| 10:19.08 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62f91.bb.sky.com) |
| 10:20.03 | Elrond | Ahh, the rssreaders has some strings tagged. |
| 10:20.37 | *** join/#openmoko ossman (n=drzeus@85.8.24.16.se.wasadata.net) |
| 10:22.37 | Herod2k | I'm downloading OpenMoko sources from svn |
| 10:22.38 | Elrond | Yep, the rssreader has some strings. |
| 10:22.43 | Elrond | Hi ossman |
| 10:23.10 | ossman | morning |
| 10:23.15 | Herod2k | hi ossman |
| 10:23.26 | ossman | yo :) |
| 10:23.30 | ossman | cheerful bunch |
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| 10:32.25 | balrog-kun | out of curiosity does someone remember roughly what transfer rates they get when scp'ing files to the neo over usb? |
| 10:32.32 | ossman | has anyone poked greg about adding the debug board id to the ftdi_sio driver? |
| 10:42.08 | balrog-kun | nice, they included the "berry_charge" module in the modules tarball :) |
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| 11:21.44 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1949 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2440.patch: S3C2440/SMDK2440/HXD8: to support resume logic (Matt Hsu) |
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| 11:23.26 | rwhitby-n800 | morning |
| 11:23.27 | CoreDump|home | hey rwhitby-n800 |
| 11:23.27 | XorA | yoyoyo |
| 11:23.35 | CoreDump|home | morning XorA |
| 11:24.29 | CoreDump|home | rwhitby-n800: cool! |
| 11:24.34 | XorA | rwhitby-n800: sneaking in to steal some P1 phones? |
| 11:25.11 | rwhitby-n800 | on the way back home |
| 11:25.48 | rwhitby-n800 | (where my P1 is waiting) |
| 11:26.50 | rwhitby-n800 | gadget shopping at HK airport is pathetic |
| 11:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178222049.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:30.21 | Hopscotch | balrog-kun: i get exactly 700kbyte/s |
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| 11:33.47 | CoreDump|home | rwhitby-n800: why is that? |
| 11:34.43 | rwhitby-n800 | can't even buy a n800 here - had to get it in London |
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| 11:41.15 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (i=muciipec@p54951FC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:44.09 | balrog-kun | Hopscotch: not bad |
| 11:44.38 | balrog-kun | i'm getting only 120kbytes/s in the emulator on a 2.4 GHz cpu |
| 11:44.50 | Hopscotch | much more is not possible with usb1.1 |
| 11:47.52 | guerby | rwhitby-n800, I assume the n800 can connect to the net via bluetooth/openmoko? |
| 11:48.17 | rwhitby-n800 | should be so |
| 11:48.49 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 11:49.01 | guerby | rwhitby-n800, thx |
| 11:49.11 | mjr | Just requires OpenMoko to support BT DUN. Dunno if it does yet, but not a problem. |
| 11:50.47 | rwhitby-n800 | It does support DUN - I've tested with a Treo650 |
| 11:51.04 | Hopscotch | works perfectly :) |
| 11:51.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Ethiopia]] [[Translation]] |
| 11:51.47 | mjr | good |
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| 11:53.08 | mjr | (still, for connecting OpenMoko to the network at large BNET is cleaner, but offering DUN service is clearly a must) |
| 11:53.22 | guerby | rwhitby-n800, mjr, I looked up DUN on the openmoko wiki without results, thanks for the confirmation :) |
| 11:53.55 | rwhitby-n800 | mjr: agreed |
| 11:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 11:54.55 | ossman | Hopscotch, oh? So you're supposed to be able to make calls on it? |
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| 11:55.36 | Hopscotch | ossman: well - dun-calls into opentom, yes |
| 11:56.05 | ossman | from the console, or is the gui supposed to work? |
| 11:56.12 | Hopscotch | no gui - console only |
| 11:56.15 | ossman | ah |
| 11:56.16 | ossman | :) |
| 11:56.19 | guerby | mjr, what's BNET? (google is kinda polluted on this word :) |
| 11:56.47 | Hopscotch | ossman: just connect the phone to your pc's usb |
| 11:56.56 | Hopscotch | ossman: and type "ifconfig usb0 192.168.0.200 up" |
| 11:57.02 | mjr | guerby, it's wlanish except over bluetooth |
| 11:57.07 | Hopscotch | ossman: after that ssh root@192.168.0.202 |
| 11:57.10 | Hopscotch | password is empty :) |
| 11:57.13 | ossman | Hopscotch, it's from lack of time, not lack of trying :) |
| 11:57.18 | mjr | guerby, (whereas BT DUN is PPP over a BT link) |
| 11:57.24 | Hopscotch | ossman: ah, ok :) |
| 11:57.53 | guerby | mjr, advantage is more efficient bandwidth use, or simpler to setup or both? |
| 11:58.25 | mjr | and actually, sorry, BNEP |
| 11:59.36 | Hopscotch | should be a bit more efficient, but mostly interesting is that it uses ethernet encapsulation |
| 11:59.40 | mjr | setups are a matter of software really in any case |
| 11:59.47 | guerby | mjr, ah ok google looks better now :) |
| 11:59.56 | mjr | I mostly like it better because it's conceptually cleaner :] |
| 11:59.58 | Hopscotch | so you can add it to a bridge like wlan |
| 12:00.05 | mjr | Hopscotch, yeah |
| 12:05.58 | *** part/#openmoko keesj (n=keesj@ip49-193-210-87.adsl2.versatel.nl) |
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| 12:35.15 | TRIsoft | gtg cu |
| 12:36.36 | woglinde | lumdidum |
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| 12:47.52 | CoreDump|home | note to future self: Never ever try to gzip 6Gb on a Zaurus ever again |
| 12:48.20 | SpeedEvil | CoreDump|home: Use bzip - smaller. |
| 12:48.30 | CoreDump|home | yeah right |
| 12:48.46 | CoreDump|home | but would probably take a year or so |
| 12:49.05 | CoreDump|home | its gzip'ping for ~2hrs now |
| 12:51.08 | SpeedEvil | Do it now. |
| 12:51.18 | SpeedEvil | Or is it an image backup? |
| 12:51.22 | SpeedEvil | In which case, don't. |
| 12:52.05 | CoreDump|home | it is |
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| 13:15.49 | Elrond | woglinde - BTW: Any result on your charger research? |
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| 13:38.29 | filippo | counter |
| 13:38.29 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 23:10:50 (2.966 +-3.0 days) (1152;201) |
| 13:40.17 | DukeOfURL | Is the SIM card identifier called the "IMSI"? |
| 13:40.31 | Hopscotch | no, that's the phone identifier |
| 13:40.37 | drath_ | isn't there something like IMSI catcher? |
| 13:40.53 | drath_ | used to track down mobiles? |
| 13:41.20 | DukeOfURL | what abour "ICCID"? |
| 13:41.43 | DukeOfURL | s/abour/about/ |
| 13:42.14 | Hopscotch | seems that i was talking trash |
| 13:42.20 | Hopscotch | it's stored in the sim |
| 13:42.43 | balrog-kun | does current kernel correctly detect the SD card size? |
| 13:43.31 | CoreDump|home | ~praise netcat |
| 13:43.43 | apt | All hail netcat! |
| 13:43.43 | DukeOfURL | is there a GSM AT command to retrieve the SIM identifier? |
| 13:51.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Wishlist:Silent_mode_timeout]] [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] |
| 13:54.13 | XorA | DukeOfURL: IMSI is for SIM, IMEI is for Mobile Equipment |
| 13:55.20 | DukeOfURL | is there an AT command to retrieve IMSI? |
| 13:56.16 | DukeOfURL | I need to know if the user has replaced the SIM card in the Neo... |
| 13:56.34 | XorA | DukeOfURL: no idea, thats a google question :-) |
| 13:57.24 | DukeOfURL | I see an AT command that locks a SIM card to the device, but I don't know if I want to go that far. |
| 13:57.58 | XorA | AT+CIMI? |
| 13:59.27 | DukeOfURL | XorA: yes! |
| 13:59.31 | DukeOfURL | thx |
| 13:59.42 | XorA | http://www.westermo.com/dman/Document.phx/Manuals/GSM/GD+AT+commands+manual+ENG.pdf?folderId=%2FManuals%2FGSM&cmd=download |
| 14:00.55 | DukeOfURL | XorA: what is the GD-01? |
| 14:01.26 | XorA | bugger knows, and there is a GSM spec detailing all the commands, but that was the first sensible hit I got on google |
| 14:02.23 | DukeOfURL | can we assume the TI calypso? or do other GSM chips use a similar AT command set? |
| 14:02.59 | XorA | as I said they all use variations on same GSM spec |
| 14:04.04 | XorA | http://www.ctiforum.com/standard/standard/etsi/0707.pdf I think |
| 14:12.15 | DukeOfURL | Annex E shows a very non-trivial voice/data alternation. YIKES! |
| 14:15.02 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1950 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (14 files in 4 dirs): Take into account some Bv3 -> Bv4 changes (aim for Bv4 compatibility now). Make the USBPAD bit verbose. |
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| 15:30.35 | Mandarino | AmĂşn! |
| 15:31.14 | Elrond | Hi Mandarino |
| 15:32.08 | Mandarino | somebody wants bet for the day of Phase 1.5 ? ;P |
| 15:33.17 | Elrond | *lol* |
| 15:35.17 | buz | so the day is set |
| 15:35.27 | buz | now we must kidnap and torture hrw ;) |
| 15:35.33 | Mandarino | xDDD |
| 15:35.34 | hrw | haha |
| 15:35.34 | stuhood | counter |
| 15:35.35 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 22:12:18 (2.925 +-2.9 days) (1153;201) |
| 15:35.38 | hrw | buz: it is not set |
| 15:35.46 | buz | then why cant you bet |
| 15:36.02 | Mandarino | I want to drive the kidnap car :P |
| 15:36.20 | buz | lol |
| 15:36.20 | roh | re |
| 15:36.21 | SpeedEvil | I vote for kidnap, and feed cookies. |
| 15:36.32 | buz | until he goes boom |
| 15:36.47 | Hopscotch | i hope you know that hrw is deeply into s&m :) |
| 15:37.06 | buz | in that case we will simply take p1 from him |
| 15:37.09 | buz | that should go some way |
| 15:37.17 | hrw | buz: I know more then normal developers so... |
| 15:37.31 | Hopscotch | ah, this is not laforge |
| 15:37.33 | Hopscotch | sorry :) |
| 15:37.34 | buz | well at least you're being fair ;) |
| 15:37.56 | Hopscotch | *wirr* |
| 15:40.08 | Elrond | The p1.5 date anyone knows is wrong by pi/2 anyway. ;o) |
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| 15:51.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 15:52.35 | buz | if it's pi/2 days thats good enough |
| 15:52.39 | buz | now if its years... |
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| 16:19.20 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1951 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/hw/ (neo1973.c s3c.h s3c2410.c): Implement the S3C2410 watchdog timer. Clean-up the machine reset code and make it work. |
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| 17:38.58 | Nebukadneza | counter |
| 17:38.59 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 21:10:36 (2.882 +-2.9 days) (1154;201) |
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| 17:56.42 | Elrond | koen - Can you put http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/494571426/ in the openmoko pool? |
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| 18:03.02 | poffy_ | Neo1973 looks like the perfect size for a side-ways thumb keyboard |
| 18:03.13 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 18:05.02 | poffy_ | What is the current input method in OpenMoko? |
| 18:05.43 | Nebukadneza | onscreen keyboard with stylus or finger based |
| 18:06.29 | Elrond | Nebukadneza - does the finger based thing work yet? |
| 18:06.34 | Nebukadneza | dunno ;P |
| 18:06.39 | Nebukadneza | i'm waiting for p1 :P |
| 18:07.17 | poffy_ | Finger based keyboard maybe be kinda cramped holding the Neo vertical |
| 18:08.39 | poffy_ | It would be perfect horizontally, though |
| 18:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
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| 18:14.37 | Elrond | poffy_ - The neo can be used horizontally. |
| 18:15.10 | poffy_ | I know. But is finger keyboard input planned to be horizontal? |
| 18:15.57 | Elrond | poffy_ - No idea. |
| 18:15.59 | Elrond | poffy_ - http://www.flickr.com/photos/ph5/417853278/in/photostream/ |
| 18:16.28 | poffy_ | Sweet |
| 18:16.47 | poffy_ | It uses the touchscreen in place of a mouse, right? |
| 18:16.56 | poffy_ | The mouse driver is replaced by the touchscreen driver, in the kernel? |
| 18:17.30 | Elrond | poffy_ - basicly yes. |
| 18:17.45 | poffy_ | Awesome |
| 18:17.54 | Elrond | poffy_ - 2.6 has a generic input event thingy. So you could in theory connect a second mouse and use both. |
| 18:17.59 | koen | actually no, you just tell X11 to use a touchscreen instead of a mouse |
| 18:18.08 | poffy_ | oh ok |
| 18:19.11 | Elrond | koen - Huh, is it really different to X11? |
| 18:19.17 | koen | yes |
| 18:19.37 | koen | for X11 apps it isn't different, but to the xserver it is |
| 18:19.50 | Elrond | Okay. |
| 18:20.06 | koen | since you need to signal recalibration, presure, etc |
| 18:20.11 | balrog-kun | for Kdrive + tslib yes, for normal Xorg 7.1 it wouldn't make a difference |
| 18:20.32 | koen | 'normal' xorg doesn't even have a touchscreen driver :) |
| 18:20.56 | balrog-kun | Xorg 7.1 reads evdev devices that report absolute coordinates just fune |
| 18:20.58 | balrog-kun | *fine |
| 18:21.10 | balrog-kun | and ignores what it doesn't understand |
| 18:21.16 | Elrond | Wait... "pressure"? Do we get pressure? |
| 18:21.21 | balrog-kun | (i.e pressure, which tslib also doesn't use) |
| 18:35.04 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 18:40.09 | SpeedEvil | The Gallileo positioning service got delayed till at least 2011. |
| 18:43.15 | sannes | SpeedEvil: oh noes! |
| 18:44.35 | SpeedEvil | A bit annoying - if it had gone up on schedule, and chipsets had been available, it'd have given considerably better performance in cities. |
| 18:44.42 | SpeedEvil | (GPS + gallileo) |
| 18:51.13 | SirCrow | The NEO has a GPS but what kind of navigation software runs on it? |
| 18:51.22 | SpeedEvil | None. |
| 18:51.30 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, it's just a raw GPS |
| 18:52.26 | balrog-kun | all navigation software that runs on linux runs on the Neo too |
| 18:52.50 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (i=muciipec@p54951CE6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:52.55 | SirCrow | Hope TomTom does make a port. |
| 18:53.06 | kiney_ | counter |
| 18:53.06 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 20:33:32 (2.857 +-2.9 days) (1155;201) |
| 18:53.13 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k957.webspeed.dk) |
| 18:53.14 | balrog-kun | it'd be enough if they made it opensource |
| 18:53.19 | koen | SirCrow: according to the tomtom employee I spoke with "not likely" |
| 18:53.30 | wooKieface | counter |
| 18:53.31 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 20:33:20 (2.856 +-2.9 days) (1156;201) |
| 18:53.49 | balrog-kun | wow, 12 seconds shorter |
| 18:54.34 | balrog-kun | it must be running like double or triple speed now |
| 18:54.55 | SirCrow | koen, they prefer to sell hardware I think |
| 18:55.14 | koen | SirCrow: they sell TT for wince |
| 18:55.28 | koen | SirCrow: if the neo sells well, they'll consider doing a port |
| 18:55.32 | balrog-kun | i'm sure there will be better software available in some time, and opensource |
| 18:56.10 | mjr | good software isn't the problem |
| 18:56.11 | mjr | good maps are |
| 18:57.33 | SirCrow | koen: I hope that Neo sells like hell. |
| 18:57.38 | koen | me too |
| 18:57.49 | koen | well, I hope the software improves like hell first |
| 18:58.19 | koen | not much sense in selling a gazillion neo's that can make a call |
| 18:58.30 | SirCrow | koen: o is there a delay in development. |
| 18:59.19 | koen | not that I know off |
| 18:59.25 | buz | mhh hows the legality of taking maps from a wince licensed tomtom? |
| 18:59.54 | buz | i mean after all it comes with a map license |
| 19:00.04 | mjr | buz, probably disallowed in tomtom license, enforcibility highly depends on jurisdiction |
| 19:00.20 | buz | around here its most certainly not enforcible |
| 19:00.24 | mjr | also, AFAIK the maps are in proprietary encrypted format, but no personal experience |
| 19:00.42 | buz | well the encryption is probably as laughable as your average DRM scheme |
| 19:00.54 | buz | or even more so, considering that they run it mostly on "embedded" devices |
| 19:01.03 | mjr | yeah, clauses like that are probably unenforcible in many places, and the DRM is probably possible to circumvent |
| 19:01.21 | koen | I remember seeing a parser for the tomtom maps somewhere |
| 19:01.29 | buz | but it still is kinda weird, one should convince one of the map vendors to sell just the maps |
| 19:01.45 | koen | buz: they are selling maps to everyone |
| 19:01.54 | buz | i mean endusers |
| 19:02.04 | koen | but you probably can't afford it :) |
| 19:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko ayan4m1 (n=ayan4m1@69.183.13.218) |
| 19:02.12 | buz | thinking of it, you can actually buy maps for some apps individually |
| 19:02.29 | buz | i dont htink one could prevent you from using something that is sold individually |
| 19:02.35 | buz | not in any sane jurisdiction anyhow |
| 19:03.33 | buz | koen: got any idea on the pricing of hte apps? |
| 19:03.43 | buz | maps |
| 19:05.10 | koen | I suspect a few 100$ per square km |
| 19:06.21 | koen | 50cm resolution satelite pictures are $50/km^2 iirc |
| 19:07.06 | Elrond | Hmm, garmin city navigator europe (33 countries) for 160 Euro. And I think, this is the .img format, which is now "documented". The normal license allows for using on two garmin devices... Jurisdication should probably allow for exchanging one garmin device with the neo... |
| 19:09.32 | mjr | not an unlikely case |
| 19:09.47 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A5626A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.23 | aloril2 | balrog-kun: counter runs at half speed now |
| 19:10.47 | balrog-kun | hummm |
| 19:11.01 | gtodd | is phreedom phone a competitor? |
| 19:11.29 | gtodd | it has wifi ready to go but doesn't seem to be "open architecture" (though based on linux) |
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| 19:16.24 | buz | i dont really want sat pictures, more like vector maps ;O) |
| 19:17.06 | buz | the gupp thingy is more like neo's evil step twin |
| 19:17.12 | buz | very ugly ;) |
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| 19:26.22 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=rd@vnsecurity.net) |
| 19:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gopi@64.213.69.26) |
| 19:36.03 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL_ (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 19:40.00 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A57F13.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:41.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (i=muciipec@p549527D6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:47.38 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@213-202-179-215.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 19:51.30 | *** join/#openmoko miip__ (n=miip@p54A57A4F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:51.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[User:Antono]] [[Translation]] |
| 19:56.53 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 19:58.39 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9beaedb.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 20:09.52 | Elrond | ~change 300 usd to eur |
| 20:10.10 | Elrond | !google exchange 300 usd to eur |
| 20:10.11 | cdbot2 | Did you mean: exchange 300 usd to euro ? | deviza kártyák @ http://english.pszaf.hu/resource.aspx?ResourceID=cons_table_fxcards%20class=l | Bull & Bear - Servizi Finanziari - Servi @ http://www.bullbear.it/site/english/servizi_dati/baseit.asp%20class=l |
| 20:10.27 | Elrond | !google exchange 300 usd to euro |
| 20:10.29 | cdbot2 | Bull & Bear - Servizi Finanziari - Servi @ http://www.bullbear.it/site/english/servizi_dati/baseit.asp%20class=l | deviza kártyák @ http://english.pszaf.hu/resource.aspx?ResourceID=cons_table_fxcards%20class=l | OANDA FXTrade - Introduction to Currency @ http://fxtrade.oanda.com/currency_trading/intro_currency_exchange.shtml%20class=l |
| 20:13.37 | ynezz | !google 300 usd to eur |
| 20:13.38 | cdbot2 | 300 U.S. dollars = 222.419929 Euros |
| 20:15.42 | minime | !google 350 usd to eur |
| 20:15.44 | cdbot2 | 350 U.S. dollars = 259.489917 Euros |
| 20:15.47 | minime | :) |
| 20:18.40 | *** join/#openmoko miip (n=miip@p54A55426.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:22.06 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 20:22.40 | pavelm | Hello, everyone |
| 20:23.16 | pavelm | Any news about GPS? Binary driver to try? |
| 20:24.21 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:29.55 | pH5 | pavelm: there is a gllin binary shipped with the P1 devices that talks to the gps, but I couldn't get NMEA readings out of it's other end. |
| 20:30.07 | pH5 | so I can now talk to the GPS (http://linuxtogo.org/~ph5/tmp/hhtest.c) but I don't know what to say. |
| 20:30.47 | DukeOfURL | will we receive elevation data from GPS? |
| 20:30.48 | Elrond | pH5 - Wait! You get some bits from the chip now? |
| 20:30.57 | Elrond | DukeOfURL - yes. |
| 20:30.59 | pH5 | Elrond: yes |
| 20:31.01 | SpeedEvil | pH5 : lo9ok at the hammerhead_protocol page on the wiki |
| 20:31.10 | SpeedEvil | and throw the strings that tomtom sends at it |
| 20:31.13 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: yes |
| 20:31.14 | pH5 | Elrond: on the p1 device with the shipped kernel at least |
| 20:31.23 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: Full position solution |
| 20:31.59 | Elrond | pH5 - Great! :-) |
| 20:32.46 | pavelm | Is there way to flash p1 kernel/filesystems on p0? Can I download it somewhere? |
| 20:34.24 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@adsl-82-141-127-121.kotinet.com) |
| 20:35.02 | pH5 | pavelm: I'm not sure. I suspect the shipped kernel has changes that are not yet in svn, no idea about the images. |
| 20:35.45 | pavelm | ph5: does calling actually work on phase1? |
| 20:36.37 | balrog-kun | pavelm: i think you can flash current kernel and rootfs on p0 just fine |
| 20:37.20 | pavelm | balrog: Ok.. when do I get current kernel/rootfs? |
| 20:37.38 | Elrond | pavelm - Try the one from the buildhost? |
| 20:37.38 | pH5 | pavelm: afaict it works as well as on p0 with current software |
| 20:37.39 | balrog-kun | from http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ ? |
| 20:38.49 | pavelm | balrog: Last ones I can see there are from 1-may... and did not work too well when flashed. I did not notice gllin binary there.. but I was not really looking. |
| 20:39.42 | balrog-kun | aloril: i was told gllin was not supposed to be on the phones and was only put there by someone's mistake or something |
| 20:40.03 | pH5 | heh. 'accidentaly'? |
| 20:40.05 | balrog-kun | oops, sorry that was for pavelm |
| 20:41.11 | pavelm | could someone accidentally mail me copy of gllin? |
| 20:41.12 | pavelm | :-) |
| 20:42.19 | *** join/#openmoko bhima_ (n=gopi@64.213.69.26) |
| 20:45.11 | ynezz | whats 'gllin' ? |
| 20:45.12 | Elrond | pavelm - I would be curious on the "license" for gllin ;) |
| 20:45.28 | ynezz | anyway I want it too :) |
| 20:46.47 | pavelm | Thanks :-) |
| 20:47.39 | koen | Elrond: the gllin binary says that the code and output are company secrets and can't be distributed |
| 20:47.46 | koen | note the 'output' |
| 20:47.52 | koen | you position is pwned |
| 20:48.05 | Elrond | *arg* |
| 20:48.18 | Elrond | Wait... Does that mean, I can't use gllin for osm?! |
| 20:49.11 | koen | Elrond: correct |
| 20:49.12 | *** join/#openmoko wooKieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k957.webspeed.dk) |
| 20:49.19 | Elrond | balrog-kun - To get the protocol. |
| 20:49.24 | koen | balrog-kun: to strace it :) |
| 20:49.26 | mjr | balrog-kun, they want to study and replace it :) |
| 20:49.28 | Elrond | balrog-kun - black box analytics. |
| 20:50.01 | Elrond | balrog-kun - I do black box wire protocol analytics for 7 years now. :) |
| 20:50.07 | pavelm | elrond: No matter what the binary says... just ignore it. |
| 20:50.16 | *** join/#openmoko heikkit (n=chatzill@c-67-169-183-182.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:50.17 | balrog-kun | hmm okay, but there's no device that it runs on currently? |
| 20:50.24 | pavelm | elrond: Copyright only goes so far, and btw reverse engineering for compatibility is legal. |
| 20:50.33 | balrog-kun | other than the TomTom, but the TomTom version of gllin is different |
| 20:50.33 | pH5 | i wish that disassembly wasn't 18mb |
| 20:51.43 | Elrond | I don't care for disassembly. |
| 20:53.27 | koen | My upstairs neighbour was telling about how he wanted gpsd support for the hammerhead in his HTC phone |
| 20:53.29 | pH5 | I was hoping that it'd be a quick way to give the packets names. |
| 20:54.24 | koen | I'm hoping for gpsd support before GL GL/FIC publish their closed version :) |
| 20:54.56 | Elrond | koen - I doubt we're that fast. |
| 21:00.32 | Elrond | So to use the neo for osm, we definitely need an foss driver? |
| 21:01.00 | pavelm | elrond: No. Your position is your, and it is not copyrightable, so you can use it for whatever you want. |
| 21:01.01 | mjr | Elrond, I really doubt that |
| 21:01.04 | mjr | yeah |
| 21:02.43 | Elrond | pavelm - unless you lived in .ru some years ago. ;-) (I hear, that using gps or other devices to determine your own position was not legal at that time ;o) ) |
| 21:03.03 | webjames | Elrond, no way |
| 21:03.07 | Elrond | So the "output is copyrighted" is a hoax, basicly. |
| 21:03.13 | mjr | yeah |
| 21:03.23 | pH5 | The binary says "Source code and produced output information contains company confidential and proprietary information and can not be disclosed to any unauthorized individual." |
| 21:03.30 | pH5 | it's not even clear what they mean by that. |
| 21:04.19 | webjames | pH5, that's not clear is it |
| 21:04.21 | pavelm | ph5: Have you signed any agreement with them? I did not. |
| 21:04.33 | pH5 | me neither |
| 21:05.05 | pavelm | ph5: So just ignore whatever it says. You still have to respect copyright, etc. |
| 21:05.46 | pavelm | ph5: And you can ignore copyright for reverse engineering purposes in many states. |
| 21:08.00 | Elrond | Well, for cleanness, if we want to disassemble stuff, we should apply "clean room reverse engeneering". |
| 21:08.42 | webjames | elrond what's that? |
| 21:09.02 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@bas3-toronto06-1177890668.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gopi@64.213.69.26) |
| 21:10.32 | Elrond | webjames - Basicly one person reads assembler and writes a spec, _other_ person implements code from that spec. |
| 21:10.53 | Elrond | webjames - The person coding should not see the disassembled code. |
| 21:11.07 | webjames | elrond, i see, i had to write assembler once, man it's hard work |
| 21:11.32 | mjr | you don't have to reimplement in assembly... and you don't want to |
| 21:11.40 | pH5 | Elrond: was that really ever needed outside of the us of a? |
| 21:11.52 | mjr | anyway, doesn't seem to me that disassembly would be required in this case but *shrug* |
| 21:13.17 | Elrond | pH5 - Probably not. But we should be really safe on this side. (This was a long discussion on ReactoS [windows OS clone]. And I think, they had good reasons to decideo so, despite most developers are in europs) |
| 21:13.34 | pH5 | mjr: We could need it for anything that doesn't have corresponding NMEA output. Maybe there are power management commands. |
| 21:14.24 | Elrond | mjr - See pH5. And I'm just saying "we should be safe there". |
| 21:15.37 | mjr | mm, righto |
| 21:15.44 | mjr | and yeah, clean-room if disassembling |
| 21:16.19 | webjames | ReactoS, why would you want that... |
| 21:17.52 | Elrond | webjames - to be able to run device drivers for windows on a free os. |
| 21:18.51 | pavelm | well, reactos people have really the nastiest enemy around :-) |
| 21:19.22 | webjames | pavelm, who would that be? |
| 21:19.48 | webjames | i would hate to be between the the two sides |
| 21:19.54 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gopi@64.213.69.26) |
| 21:20.09 | Elrond | pavelm - (reactos) Well, the problems, that I heard: Some people stealing their code, compiling it and claiming they did it. Completely violating the GPL. |
| 21:23.05 | pavelm | webjames: I believe they are called Micro$oft. |
| 21:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-36-228.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 21:25.41 | Elrond | I think, ms ignores them for now. Half a year ago, it was tricky enough to get a stable svn revision for running under qemu. |
| 21:26.02 | Elrond | at least their networking was starting to work at that time. |
| 21:26.23 | webjames | it's quite an impressive feat |
| 21:26.33 | koen | "if you discover a bug in windows, are you going to implement the same bug in ReactOS?" |
| 21:27.20 | Elrond | hehe. I remember an alike question on samba. The base answer was "yes". |
| 21:27.32 | balrog-kun | they did already on a couple occasions and they did implement the bugs :) |
| 21:27.34 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 21:27.56 | Elrond | :-) |
| 21:28.17 | koen | when applications (e.g. MS office) depend on the bugs, you are basically forced to implement them |
| 21:28.32 | webjames | koen, that's so bad |
| 21:29.51 | Elrond | That's closed source reality. |
| 21:31.04 | Elrond | And sometimes we have it in FOSS too. Guess why libc6 has hundreds of old hidden ABIs. |
| 21:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko quitte_ (n=quitte@stgt-d9beaedb.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 21:33.22 | webjames | watched bbc news tonight 'click' had mark shuttleworth on it, mr ubuntu open source for africa |
| 21:34.10 | webjames | and he was saying about his ubuntu mobile platform |
| 21:34.45 | ynezz | yea, millions linux distributions |
| 21:35.14 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 21:35.19 | webjames | ubuntu mobile initial release in October 2007 |
| 21:35.53 | webjames | aparently it's been backed by intel, but as openmoko has the neo1973 has a massive advantage |
| 21:36.20 | koen | ubunty mobile will only support x86 cpus |
| 21:36.32 | koen | which the vast majority of mobile devices don't have |
| 21:36.56 | Elrond | how stupid them. (SCNR) |
| 21:37.52 | webjames | aparently it might use a chip codenamed Silverthorn |
| 21:38.09 | ynezz | ah that PXB line |
| 21:38.11 | ynezz | :p |
| 21:38.36 | webjames | the chips will be one-seventh the size of conventional processors and consume just 10% of the power, Intel said. |
| 21:38.53 | koen | as someone said "x86 using 90% less power still means 6.5 watts" |
| 21:39.00 | Elrond | 10% of 70W are still 7W. Way too much. |
| 21:39.44 | Elrond | And that sounds just like one of those "bare bone"/"book-pc" CPUs. |
| 21:40.14 | webjames | yeah i beleive it's not a smartphone more of a pda |
| 21:40.56 | Elrond | Even for a PDA 7W are too much. |
| 21:41.32 | webjames | yeah i guess they'll have to work on that |
| 21:41.33 | XorA | Zaurus 3200 takes 2.5W |
| 21:41.33 | Elrond | Hmm. s/are/is/ ? (I'm not a native speaker) |
| 21:41.57 | Elrond | XorA - How large is the battery / how long does it last? |
| 21:42.00 | XorA | well actually I suspect its nearer 3W a lot of the time |
| 21:42.19 | XorA | Elrond: this is based on it takes 5V at 500mA and slighly above |
| 21:42.38 | koen | that's 3W including backlight, right? |
| 21:42.46 | XorA | koen: yes |
| 21:42.57 | XorA | the C860 takes less than the 3200 |
| 21:43.14 | XorA | all that spinning the HD I suppose |
| 21:44.06 | Elrond | 3W for all? |
| 21:44.37 | Elrond | In the x86 case we're talking about 7W for just the CPU |
| 21:44.48 | XorA | Elrond: yes |
| 21:45.47 | koen | and the xscales aren't the most frugal ARMs around for that performance class |
| 21:46.32 | Elrond | Yep. |
| 21:52.35 | SpeedEvil | X86 diddn't used to be that bad. |
| 21:52.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 21:59.25 | pavelm_away | ...actually, recompiling ubuntu for _anything_ should be trivial. |
| 21:59.52 | koen | actually, no |
| 21:59.55 | pavelm_away | ...but I guess they are targetting _way_ larger machines than gta01 |
| 22:00.12 | chadp | yeah - something like the q1 without windows |
| 22:00.14 | koen | lots of software needs patches for !x86 archs |
| 22:00.14 | pavelm_away | koen: trivial as in one man-month |
| 22:00.34 | chadp | remember those micro-laptop things that ran wince... MS failed that and killed the segement |
| 22:00.41 | chadp | intel dosen't want to see the same happen to UMPC ;) |
| 22:00.44 | unknown_lamer | koen: debian already patched all of them ;-) |
| 22:01.12 | koen | unknown_lamer: I know, I helped with the debian/EABI port |
| 22:01.26 | unknown_lamer | nic |
| 22:01.26 | unknown_lamer | e |
| 22:01.53 | chadp | some of the n770/n800 hw is closed so an Ubuntu MID port might be tricky :( |
| 22:02.04 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@20150139192.user.veloxzone.com.br) |
| 22:02.47 | pavelm_away | chadp: only charger is closed, iirc |
| 22:02.56 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3E348.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:03.13 | koen | and wifi |
| 22:03.19 | koen | and dsp |
| 22:03.21 | koen | and ... |
| 22:03.23 | koen | and ... |
| 22:07.19 | pavelm_away | koen: really? Nokia people were telling me only charger is closed-source. |
| 22:07.37 | pavelm_away | kone: Of course, it will have GSM firmware somewhere, and maybe wifi firmware...? |
| 22:07.47 | koen | GSM? |
| 22:07.56 | koen | it has no GSM radio |
| 22:08.35 | pavelm_away | koen: Right, sorry. |
| 22:08.44 | pavelm_away | koen: So what do you mean by dsp, then? |
| 22:09.01 | koen | the dsp |
| 22:09.52 | pavelm_away | in n770? |
| 22:09.56 | pavelm_away | what is it used for? |
| 22:10.10 | koen | for signal processing |
| 22:10.29 | pavelm_away | ..obviously, but what signal processing do you do on internet tablet? |
| 22:10.44 | koen | do I hear google calling? |
| 22:10.50 | pavelm_away | ..there are no dsp-s in Zauruses, and iirc n770 was pretty much Zaurus. |
| 22:11.00 | mjr | apparently it can be used to slightly boost eg. media decoding |
| 22:11.14 | pavelm_away | voip can be done on main CPU. |
| 22:11.22 | koen | pavelm_away: you do not IIRC |
| 22:11.22 | pavelm_away | Are you sure n770 has dsp? Do you have some reference? |
| 22:11.33 | koen | djeez, is googling that hard? |
| 22:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:13.09 | pavelm_away | koen: I did not hear google calling :-). (I did not understand your remark). |
| 22:13.56 | pavelm_away | koen: Ok, wikipedia claims it does have a DSP. I guess that one can be ignored. |
| 22:14.22 | pavelm_away | koen: And nokia should be sued if it includes binary kernel module. But I guess they must drive it from userland somehow... |
| 22:14.42 | koen | no, it's a binary module |
| 22:14.57 | koen | umac.ko has no source |
| 22:17.21 | pavelm_away | I thought nokia was more clever then that. Either their people were lying to me, or this got added after I talked with them :-( |
| 22:17.25 | pavelm_away | someone should sue them. |
| 22:19.04 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 22:20.10 | pavelm_away | http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/engine?do=post_view_printable;post=21639;list=maemo :-( |
| 22:22.33 | pavelm_away | ... I guess someone should find out what inline functions their module includes, and then just send gplviolations.org on them. |
| 22:23.19 | koen | pavelm_away: at which point nokia says "sue connexant" |
| 22:24.56 | pavelm_away | koen: At that point they are barred from selling Nokia 770 in germany, right? |
| 22:25.23 | pavelm_away | koen: ..plus at that point they make it to slashdot etc ;-) |
| 22:25.53 | koen | nokia (legal dept + management) doesn't care about that |
| 22:26.07 | koen | the maemo people do, but they are only allowed to code :( |
| 22:26.20 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-76-204-94-2.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:26.44 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-76-204-94-2.dsl.mdsnwi.sbcglobal.net) |
| 22:28.22 | koen | pavelm_away: FIC should be sued as well, since they don't release the source for the kernel shipped in the p1 devices |
| 22:28.46 | borg_ | :P |
| 22:29.17 | pavelm_away | koen: Well, unlike nokia they'll probably release the sources when asked, right? |
| 22:29.33 | koen | no idea |
| 22:29.37 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB0C127.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:29.39 | koen | has anyone asked nokia via the proper channels? |
| 22:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko desowin (n=desowin@unaffiliated/desowin) |
| 22:30.13 | XorA | yeah, someone spend the 20E to send lawyers letter with stappled GPL to their legal dept asking for sources |
| 22:30.28 | koen | right |
| 22:30.41 | koen | or send harald a n800 |
| 22:31.26 | jaebird | suing is fun...especially in America! |
| 22:31.44 | jaebird | now we can try to sue you if your are NOT using DRM :) |
| 22:32.22 | jaebird | silly lawyers, trix are for kids :) |
| 22:32.36 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-36-228.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 22:32.46 | pavelm_away | koen: Yes, the thread I seen had people asking and nokia person replying that sources are not available. |
| 22:33.06 | pavelm_away | koen: I can talk to nokia people when I meet them ;-) |
| 22:33.14 | koen | nokia people also said the sources for the finger detections weren't available |
| 22:33.23 | koen | which were available |
| 22:34.30 | pavelm_away | Oops :-) |
| 22:34.55 | *** join/#openmoko stuhood (n=stuhood@c-24-127-36-235.hsd1.va.comcast.net) |
| 22:37.18 | *** join/#openmoko ruskie (i=ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 22:42.53 | Moo^^ | pavelm_away: has nokia screwed up? |
| 22:43.19 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484e980.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:43.38 | sixfeet | re |
| 22:47.19 | sixfeet | counter |
| 22:47.19 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 18:36:26 (2.775 +-2.8 days) (1157;201) |
| 22:57.08 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-179-215.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 22:57.44 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 22:57.50 | LuitvD | counter |
| 22:57.50 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 18:31:10 (2.772 +-2.8 days) (1158;201) |
| 22:58.30 | LuitvD | bugger, P1 release just when my final exames begin... |
| 22:58.47 | LuitvD | (or during my final exames, if there's more delay) |
| 23:00.11 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-36-228.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 23:03.39 | woglinde | wow |
| 23:03.46 | woglinde | after 11 years a new portmap |
| 23:04.07 | LuitvD | :P where? |
| 23:04.31 | woglinde | in my debian unstable now |
| 23:05.24 | LuitvD | hmm, should ubuntu have a new portmap then too? :P |
| 23:05.39 | woglinde | in the next release sure |
| 23:05.47 | LuitvD | (since ubuntu stable is like debian unstable) |
| 23:06.48 | LuitvD | which version is the 'new' one? ... never really looked at my portmap version |
| 23:06.58 | woglinde | portmap6 now |
| 23:07.11 | woglinde | previous was portmap5 |
| 23:07.38 | woglinde | but didnt check which patches was applied upstream |
| 23:07.52 | woglinde | the localhost bindonly |
| 23:08.15 | LuitvD | hmm, think I will have to use the CDs that arrived this morning ... my current feisty (beta) installation won't update anymore ... |
| 23:08.40 | LuitvD | or ubuntu sources are just slow :P |
| 23:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko morten (n=morten@ti500720a080-9543.bb.online.no) |
| 23:10.10 | LuitvD | wow, a 64-year old german cessna pilot flew his plane over the border towards the netherlands while being passed out... |
| 23:10.39 | Elrond | "passed out"? |
| 23:10.48 | *** join/#openmoko chreekat (n=b@adsl-71-143-20-111.dsl.scrm01.pacbell.net) |
| 23:10.56 | Mukunda | It's nearly mid May, any news yet on when the Neo1973 will be available? |
| 23:11.01 | LuitvD | Elrond: stroke or some other quite bad illness |
| 23:11.11 | woglinde | hm |
| 23:11.23 | woglinde | my phone is strange |
| 23:11.24 | LuitvD | Elrond: don't quite know the right word for it in english... it's "onwel" in Dutch |
| 23:11.34 | woglinde | I guess I never ever should turn it off |
| 23:11.44 | woglinde | its getting harder to start it evry time |
| 23:11.44 | LuitvD | the poor bloke died in the hospital later... |
| 23:12.17 | LuitvD | it's a miracle he made it to the hospital actually |
| 23:12.17 | woglinde | have you an url? |
| 23:12.18 | LuitvD | woglinde: how's it getting harder to boot? |
| 23:12.32 | Elrond | woglinde - your neo? |
| 23:12.36 | woglinde | luitvd put on an usb 2 port |
| 23:12.43 | woglinde | and hit the power button |
| 23:12.47 | woglinde | elrony yes |
| 23:12.51 | woglinde | elrond |
| 23:13.09 | LuitvD | woglinde: try typing half a nickname and pressing tab afterwards ;) |
| 23:13.23 | woglinde | I hate tabcompletion |
| 23:13.28 | LuitvD | hahahah |
| 23:13.34 | Elrond | I used to hate it. :-) |
| 23:13.40 | woglinde | I hat scripts too |
| 23:13.57 | Elrond | I used to say "if I like people, I type their whole name, otherwise they're lost and I abbreviate them anyway" ;o) |
| 23:14.08 | woglinde | whats the time after hitting power button that the neo turns on? |
| 23:14.19 | Elrond | Yep. I don't have any real scripts on this client. |
| 23:14.22 | pavelm_away | wog: You don't want to know. |
| 23:14.35 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 23:14.47 | Elrond | woglinde - About 5sec or so you have to press the power button. |
| 23:14.52 | woglinde | pavelm my is strange thats why I am asking |
| 23:15.02 | pavelm_away | elrond: and then it takes around forever to boot. |
| 23:15.07 | woglinde | elrind oh okay |
| 23:15.08 | pavelm_away | wog: You need to press it for 9-or-so seconds. |
| 23:15.12 | LuitvD | http://www.milspotters.nl/cessnaklu.jpg ... that's our royal dutch navy speeding off towards the unidentified cessna |
| 23:15.14 | pavelm_away | wog: _Long_ press. |
| 23:15.25 | Elrond | pavelm_away - Yours or woglinde's? |
| 23:15.26 | LuitvD | 9 seconds ? :| |
| 23:15.49 | pavelm_away | luitvd: Hmm, flying planes must be easier than I thought :-) |
| 23:16.04 | pavelm_away | elrond: I believe all neos take forever to boot. |
| 23:16.07 | LuitvD | pavelm_away: flying a cessna certainly is... |
| 23:16.27 | woglinde | hm |
| 23:16.33 | woglinde | dont turn even after 20 seconds |
| 23:16.41 | woglinde | let me remove the akku and try again |
| 23:17.22 | pavelm_away | wog: Software is broken. |
| 23:17.24 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@213-202-183-249.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 23:17.35 | Elrond | Software on P1?! |
| 23:17.58 | woglinde | hm there is a new uboot in the tmp dir on buildhost |
| 23:18.05 | woglinde | but I will not flash it |
| 23:18.21 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72.173.29.109) |
| 23:18.42 | woglinde | hm akku did the trick |
| 23:19.01 | Elrond | woglinde - no debug board --> don't touch u-boot. |
| 23:19.11 | woglinde | elrond yes thats it |
| 23:20.17 | woglinde | oh |
| 23:20.21 | Elrond | woglinde - BTW: Any result on your charger research? |
| 23:20.28 | woglinde | elrond no |
| 23:20.31 | Elrond | "oh"-what? |
| 23:20.51 | Elrond | woglinde's hardware feels a bit strange. |
| 23:21.03 | woglinde | hm battery is low but I turned it off with half full |
| 23:21.24 | woglinde | and there are two virtual keyboards |
| 23:21.33 | woglinde | one have the tab-key I searched for |
| 23:22.01 | Elrond | woglinde - BTW: Where in .de are you? |
| 23:22.10 | woglinde | berlin |
| 23:22.31 | Elrond | Okay, too far away (south of Frankfurt here) |
| 23:22.55 | woglinde | yeah but I see zecke every monday |
| 23:22.59 | woglinde | at the university |
| 23:23.05 | Elrond | Ahh ;) |
| 23:23.35 | Elrond | We should do some openmoko-de meetup some time. |
| 23:24.39 | woglinde | yeah maybee at LinuxTag |
| 23:25.45 | Elrond | LinuxTag is too expensive for me. And I don't want to go to a "Schaeuble"-conference. |
| 23:25.57 | pavelm_away | elrond: I'd guess so. It is in "early stages of development". I'd certainly not attribute _any_ problems to hw. |
| 23:26.31 | *** join/#openmoko bhima_ (n=gopi@64.213.69.26) |
| 23:26.51 | Elrond | pavelm_away - Well, hw did have problems in P0, so... ;) |
| 23:27.20 | woglinde | elrond mickeyl will be there |
| 23:28.02 | Elrond | woglinde - everybody will hang around mickeyl. ;o) |
| 23:29.18 | woglinde | elrond hehe |
| 23:29.19 | pavelm_away | elrond: Did we have serious hw problems in p0? |
| 23:29.19 | woglinde | yes |
| 23:29.35 | woglinde | pavelm the powerconsumption? |
| 23:29.37 | pavelm_away | elrond: I mean, it seems stable; it has known problems with power management, but that's pretty much it. |
| 23:29.49 | pavelm_away | elrond: Nothing causing random crashes in phase 0, is it? |
| 23:30.00 | SpeedEvil | €sidetone |
| 23:30.02 | pavelm_away | elrond: Nothing that could explain two soft keyboards, for example. |
| 23:30.18 | pavelm_away | speed: Ok, but that's not instability, either. |
| 23:30.22 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:30.24 | Elrond | woglinde - A girl -- who I want to meet for ages -- gives a talk. It just doesn't look very good to me. it will be lots of stress at work, if I take more than one day holiday, etc. and the train will be expenstive too. |
| 23:31.02 | woglinde | elrond he no problem |
| 23:32.36 | Elrond | pavelm_away - Well, lots of things in p0 should generate interrupts nd don't. ;o) |
| 23:32.47 | Elrond | But still, yes. p0 seems stable. |
| 23:33.02 | Elrond | Just woglinde's p1 (from his reporting) feels a bit strange. |
| 23:33.21 | Elrond | Yes, the two soft keyboards are software. |
| 23:33.45 | Elrond | But the wall-charger not working feels like "might be the charger". |
| 23:34.02 | woglinde | elrond yes but It can be my fault |
| 23:34.07 | LuitvD | so... there will be no pre-ordering? just ordering? |
| 23:34.11 | woglinde | by didnt handle the battery right |
| 23:34.12 | LuitvD | for P1? |
| 23:34.24 | woglinde | luitvd yes It seems so |
| 23:34.43 | LuitvD | openmoko.com is still offline |
| 23:34.53 | woglinde | I dont know if the wiki list will be used |
| 23:35.10 | woglinde | but than first comes first serve |
| 23:35.10 | LuitvD | well, not really offline, but not online either :P |
| 23:35.24 | LuitvD | yeah, most likely just that |
| 23:36.22 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 23:36.23 | SpeedEvil | Smile, I guess. |
| 23:36.40 | LuitvD | what would you do? I'd take the order for sure |
| 23:37.02 | LuitvD | hell with production capacity :P |
| 23:37.49 | LuitvD | damn, that QRA interception of the german cessna was quite a struggle... |
| 23:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@78.16.6.226) |
| 23:39.37 | LuitvD | bad weather ... not the right moment to get unwell in a plane on your own... |
| 23:40.06 | bhima_ | counter |
| 23:40.06 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a optimistic guess) P1: 2 days 18:10:02 (2.757 +-2.8 days) (1159;201) |
| 23:43.18 | pavelm_away | luitvd: Is there english coverage? |
| 23:43.27 | LuitvD | not really... |
| 23:43.29 | pavelm_away | elrond: Yes, nonworking charger seems like non-working charger :-) |
| 23:43.30 | LuitvD | it's all dutch |
| 23:43.54 | LuitvD | pavelm_away: there's the Bandbox and QRA Scramble radio transmissions |
| 23:44.04 | LuitvD | in english... |
| 23:44.10 | LuitvD | but it's long... |
| 23:44.33 | LuitvD | the complete scramble, from takeoff till crash |
| 23:44.51 | pavelm_away | luitvd: Hmm :-) |
| 23:45.10 | LuitvD | http://www.milspotters.nl/files/qra12cessna.mp3 |
| 23:45.37 | Elrond | pavelm_away - Which direction are you using? |
| 23:45.41 | pavelm_away | thanks :-) |
| 23:45.49 | pavelm_away | run pc application with display on openmoko. |
| 23:45.59 | *** join/#openmoko close2 (n=cl@85-125-148-72.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 23:46.12 | LuitvD | pavelm_away: there's some dutch in it :P when the pilots describe details... |
| 23:46.49 | pavelm_away | gnome-panel on openmoko is fun :-) |
| 23:46.57 | LuitvD | lol |
| 23:47.26 | pavelm_away | solitare works |
| 23:48.12 | balrog-kun | iirc someone ran tuxracer on the P0 devices :) |
| 23:48.16 | LuitvD | pavelm_away: the radio-transmissions are between Bandbox and the QRA planes (two F-16 Fighting Falcon) |
| 23:48.33 | pavelm_away | hehe, and unlike openmoko stuff, it has readable font size :-) |
| 23:49.05 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: did he tell how well it preformed? |
| 23:49.26 | LuitvD | balrog-kun: 'ran tuxracer' or 'played tuxracer´ ? :P |
| 23:49.35 | pavelm_away | ...can even be controlled by fingers ;-) |
| 23:50.52 | balrog-kun | LuitvD: not sure, i only saw a screenshot from the menu screen |
| 23:50.59 | pavelm_away | mplayer works remotely, at about 4 frames a second. |
| 23:51.12 | LuitvD | lol |
| 23:51.16 | Elrond | hehe :-) |
| 23:51.40 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 23:52.03 | LuitvD | aloril: errrr.... what? :) |
| 23:52.16 | pavelm_away | ...but that's actually very good news, because usb is enough to do pretty much anything if it can run mplayer. |
| 23:53.15 | pavelm_away | ...xpdf works and even looks usable. |
| 23:53.31 | LuitvD | that's nice |
| 23:54.02 | guaqua | if you can actually view pdf:s on neo it's already the best mobile on that front :) |
| 23:54.17 | guaqua | we merely need a web browser now :/ |
| 23:54.31 | pavelm_away | let me start a galeon... or xlinks? |
| 23:55.11 | guaqua | there's the webkit browser project...zecke's gsoc |
| 23:55.21 | pavelm_away | is there easy way to lie about DPI? |
| 23:55.33 | guaqua | xorg.conf? |
| 23:55.44 | balrog-kun | well, the Treo are not bad at reading PDFs either |
| 23:55.58 | guaqua | oh |
| 23:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (n=foobar@dslb-084-057-132-122.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 23:57.08 | pavelm_away | mozilla runs but has way too big toolbars. Like 1/3 of screen is toolbars. |
| 23:57.46 | pavelm_away | ...but I can read slashdot... in a pretty small font. |
| 23:58.29 | guaqua | :/ |
| 23:58.37 | SpeedEvil | Firefox may work. |
| 23:58.40 | balrog-kun | eww there are better things to read |
| 23:58.43 | SpeedEvil | Get the 'menux' extension |
| 23:58.59 | SpeedEvil | this lets you have only one toolbar. |
| 23:59.04 | SpeedEvil | with all needed stuff on it. |
| 23:59.05 | pavelm_away | (ok, the openmoko needs to be 10 centimeters from my eyes to read /.) |
| 23:59.10 | SpeedEvil | urlbar, back forward, ... |
| 23:59.28 | pavelm_away | ...aha, actually three clicks and toolbars are gone :-) |
| 23:59.33 | SpeedEvil | and then 'easygestures' to work the touchscreen |
| 23:59.33 | pavelm_away | I'll need to install that on zaurus. |
| 23:59.41 | LuitvD | 'night all |
| 23:59.45 | SpeedEvil | I'd recomment 1.5 |
