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| 01:41.37 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 01:45.00 | poffy | About how much will the discount f or Phase 1+ devices be, if you purchased a Phase1 device? |
| 01:45.39 | hads | Unknown yet I believe. |
| 01:45.49 | poffy | alright |
| 01:47.41 | poffy | I'm just trying to decide if I want a Phase1 or wait for a Phase1+ phone (with WiFi and such) |
| 01:49.14 | hads | I'm in the same boat. |
| 01:49.43 | poffy | I have a lot of great ideas for OpenMoko, and I'm really excited about developing for it |
| 01:49.59 | hads | I think on the Neo1973 page on the wiki it says that the discount will be announced when Phase1 is available. |
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| 03:19.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1925 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (4 files): |
| 03:19.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: add unfinished code for |
| 03:19.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * GTA02v1 support |
| 03:19.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * S3C2443 support |
| 03:19.50 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * SMDK2443 support |
| 03:27.22 | aloril | poffy: that will be known when its possible to buy P1 |
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| 03:43.37 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Advanced_End-user]] [[Basic_End-user]] [[Main_Page]] [[Running_OpenMoko_on_PC]] |
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| 03:59.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1926 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-backlight.patch: |
| 03:59.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: * fix GTA01 backlight driver on 2.6.21 kernels |
| 03:59.33 | CIA-24 | openmoko: (BACKLIGHT_DEVICE has been replaced by BACKLIGHT_CLASS_DEVICE) |
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| 04:51.01 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1927 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/environment.in: mount root-fs as read-only when booting from SD (since our default init script expects it read-only to be able to do fsck before mounting it read-write) |
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| 05:26.12 | billl_ | counter |
| 05:26.12 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 6 days 18:33:55 (6.774 +-3.5 days) (1112;198) |
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| 05:42.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 07:14.04 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:14.53 | thresh | moroning |
| 07:16.01 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2F8F1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:16.04 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:16.12 | CM | ello :) |
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| 07:52.12 | quitte_ | hmm. just had a look at the s3c2443 manual. very nice. I hope that if it gets used they won't let any features of it be unused. |
| 07:57.58 | keesj | hi |
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| 08:31.23 | SpeedEvil | diffs? |
| 08:31.27 | SpeedEvil | quitte_ |
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| 08:39.09 | quitte_ | SpeedEvil: cam interface. ddr ram. cf/ata interface. usb2 device mode. |
| 08:39.24 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@120.Red-88-5-76.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 08:41.49 | quitte_ | oh and pccard. |
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| 08:44.02 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 08:44.15 | SpeedEvil | I _really_ doubt pccard, cf/ata will be used. |
| 08:44.31 | SpeedEvil | USB2 device mode only. |
| 08:45.01 | SpeedEvil | s/./?/ |
| 08:46.11 | mjr | apparently device mode only; bummer |
| 08:46.19 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 08:46.39 | mjr | wonder if it's even high-speed |
| 08:46.42 | koen | usb "2" |
| 08:46.50 | quitte_ | hmm why not cf? |
| 08:46.52 | drath | could be full-speed, too |
| 08:46.57 | SpeedEvil | CF is rather large. |
| 08:46.59 | mjr | drath, yeah |
| 08:47.35 | SpeedEvil | Especially once you take into account the size of the socket, the ejection button, and the cover for the outside slot. |
| 08:47.35 | quitte_ | i dont mind if most ofthe cf card goes beyond the phones case. |
| 08:47.48 | drath | The controller supports both High and Full speed mode. |
| 08:47.52 | SpeedEvil | And CF is nowadays on the _fast_ decline. |
| 08:47.52 | drath | from 2443 UM |
| 08:48.15 | mjr | drath, ok. Well, still a bother that high speed host isn't |
| 08:48.46 | SpeedEvil | As in prices going up not down in general. |
| 08:48.49 | drath | yeah, but do you really need HS host on a mobile? |
| 08:49.00 | SpeedEvil | drath: Sometimes. |
| 08:49.05 | drath | heh, when? |
| 08:49.05 | SpeedEvil | Plug into a USB hard drie. |
| 08:49.18 | SpeedEvil | Plug into a nice USB2 webcam. |
| 08:49.27 | koen | usb2 device mode? |
| 08:50.12 | quitte_ | it is not a usb2 hci, but can be a usb2 device |
| 08:57.10 | aloril | 2 days to go until manufacturing starts, announce list is still quiet |
| 08:58.04 | quitte_ | weird bot |
| 08:58.12 | hads | Not a bot. |
| 08:58.15 | mjr | aloril, in Unix tradition, that must mean everything's going swell |
| 08:58.25 | aloril | mjr: hehe |
| 08:58.36 | aloril | quitte_: cyborg ;-) |
| 08:58.40 | hads | heh |
| 08:59.00 | quitte_ | ah |
| 08:59.22 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 09:03.29 | aloril | maybe they first want to see how manufacturing and QA goes |
| 09:06.43 | *** join/#openmoko tigert_ (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 09:19.25 | CIA-24 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1928 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-backlight.patch: * make backlight driver compile with 2.6.21 backlight API changes |
| 09:22.32 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@x-net.hu) |
| 09:25.15 | quitte_ | at once? |
| 09:26.04 | quitte_ | I hope there will be the white/orange option. I like those colors |
| 09:26.08 | guaqua | there's gonne be *buzz* here |
| 09:26.14 | CM | I want the black one |
| 09:26.21 | guaqua | white/orange for me too |
| 09:26.22 | CM | silver/black |
| 09:26.52 | CM | I'm sure the ppl here will notice quite quickly when they can be ordered |
| 09:26.55 | aloril | probably openmoko.com changes first, then announce mailing list (unless there is non order stuff in announce list) |
| 09:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|mis (n=rob_w@p549ba0b1.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:28.42 | aloril | within 15 minutes of openmoko.com changing (script) should announce it here (hopefully no bugs in it), also announce mails should be announced here too, so should not take long before buzz starts here ;-) |
| 09:29.25 | quitte_ | counter |
| 09:29.25 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 6 days 14:30:42 (6.605 +-3.5 days) (1113;198) |
| 09:31.10 | quitte_ | is wince stll an option? |
| 09:32.04 | aloril | quitte_: I suspect not (unless somebody else does it) |
| 09:32.24 | aloril | quitte_: it was planned, but I think they dropped it at some point |
| 09:33.02 | *** join/#openmoko Kensan (n=ken@zux006-004-203.adsl.green.ch) |
| 09:34.18 | quitte_ | hmm i'm not sure that is good. might have helped getting my family and grandparents get one too and lt hem decide by direct comparison that opnmoko is better |
| 09:34.31 | aloril | quitte_: hehe |
| 09:35.21 | quitte_ | what is this hole in the bottom of the phone good for? seems to be wasted space to me. |
| 09:35.30 | quitte_ | close it and put cf there ;) |
| 09:35.33 | guaqua | once we get up to a point where the community is content with thet operating system - there's no match :) |
| 09:36.53 | quitte_ | oh there will be complaints. latest idiocy i was faced with was "I want a screensaver to slideshow my photos - windows does that - windows is better" |
| 09:36.58 | aloril | quitte_: lanyard hole ;-) |
| 09:37.15 | guaqua | "screensaver" |
| 09:37.17 | quitte_ | to convince such morons it has to do _everything_ ce does and more |
| 09:37.28 | quitte_ | no matter how useless that ce feature seems |
| 09:37.30 | koen | quitte_: ce crashed every 5 minutes |
| 09:37.40 | quitte_ | so om has to crash more often |
| 09:37.40 | koen | I don't think we want to do that ;) |
| 09:37.45 | guaqua | running screensaver on a cell phone :D |
| 09:37.46 | SpeedEvil | koen: But we can! |
| 09:37.55 | guaqua | it's just so ridiculous |
| 09:37.57 | aloril | quitte_: oh, have you tried other way around: "can win(ce) do this?" |
| 09:38.03 | guaqua | you keep it in your pocket |
| 09:38.18 | SpeedEvil | Screensaver on a black and white LCD isn't so insane. |
| 09:38.23 | SpeedEvil | As it uses almost no power. |
| 09:38.45 | SpeedEvil | On a colour phone, it's going to take the battery life down to a few hours. |
| 09:38.52 | quitte_ | aloril: it was on a desktop. insalled compiz and asked can xp do that. now a lot of apps dont work properly but once the worms were out the can... |
| 09:40.35 | quitte_ | has anyone tried scummvm with monkey island 3,yet? |
| 09:41.23 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 09:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 09:42.25 | aloril | * * * * * /usr/local/bin/crash #crash content: dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/mem |
| 09:42.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] |
| 09:42.29 | aloril | should work ;-) |
| 09:45.00 | quitte_ | im curious to see the power management in action. I have never seen s3 actually work. so i still expect that to create quite some craashes |
| 09:47.14 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 09:48.03 | quitte_ | kensington style lanyard hole should do the trick. and it's way more space efficient. |
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| 09:55.07 | CM | quitte_: The antenna is in that loop, otherwise I guess it's just a design choice |
| 09:57.52 | quitte_ | CM yes. but thats the gsm antenna, isn't it? it's huge. almost all space of the hole and the antenna could be used for something else. |
| 09:58.31 | quitte_ | otoh it's great to have the antenna asfar away from the brain as possible |
| 09:58.32 | CM | Sure. I think they wanted it oval to look different |
| 09:58.32 | SpeedEvil | Smaller the antenna, poorer GSM performance. |
| 09:58.49 | SpeedEvil | Shorter battery life. |
| 09:59.07 | quitte_ | what is the black thing of the antenna? just plastic? |
| 09:59.12 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 09:59.23 | CM | The head absorbs a lot of the radiosignal, so better reception too when it's far away |
| 09:59.26 | SpeedEvil | And no, you can't trivially ram circuitry in there. |
| 09:59.40 | SpeedEvil | As the circuitry will 'short out' the antenna to a degree. |
| 10:00.17 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@owla-gw.cust.eunet.fi) |
| 10:00.26 | CM | koen: Antennas can look totally weird and still work perfectly :) |
| 10:01.50 | CM | It's just easier to calculate on straight dipoles and coils and loops |
| 10:01.57 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@78-226.adsl.lpoy.dnainternet.fi) |
| 10:01.59 | SpeedEvil | The 'next big thing' will be multiple antennas on a phone. |
| 10:02.05 | SpeedEvil | To do beamforming. |
| 10:02.28 | koen | phased array :) |
| 10:02.36 | SpeedEvil | Well - beamforming may be a bit elaborate, more just increasing the fraction of the power hitting the tower. |
| 10:02.37 | CM | SpeedEvil: Or antennas that has wider band reception |
| 10:02.47 | SpeedEvil | UWB = evil. |
| 10:02.57 | koen | "we don't use phased array for rader because otherwise the mechanical engineers would be out of business" |
| 10:03.15 | CM | Well, it's not easy to get radio, gps, bluetooth and gsm in the same antenna |
| 10:03.25 | SpeedEvil | Oh - that, yes. |
| 10:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@148.81.191.193) |
| 10:04.59 | quitte_ | i'm surprised fm radio still exists. should be switched off in favour of dab just like terrestrial tv, imho. |
| 10:05.21 | CM | One of my best friends did 2 years post grad studies on antennas and is now designing antennas for Nokia. He always have arguments with the design people who makes such "un-functional" shells |
| 10:05.59 | CM | quitte_: I totally agree, fm is a waste |
| 10:06.08 | quitte_ | can we expect anonymous design poposals from him? |
| 10:06.46 | CM | quitte_: Hehe.. I can always ask. |
| 10:07.27 | CM | They do a lot of test of signal strenth and such on all competitors phones, so maybe I should make sure he gets a Neo to test things on |
| 10:10.39 | webjames | just built openmoko and the task bar has gone! |
| 10:12.28 | SpeedEvil | DAB is shit. |
| 10:12.32 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately. |
| 10:12.38 | SpeedEvil | Lower quality than FM. |
| 10:12.53 | SpeedEvil | And OFCOM recently relaxed the requirement to broadcast at 128K. |
| 10:13.11 | SpeedEvil | So broadcasters can drop the bitrate as far as they like. |
| 10:13.22 | webjames | that's stupid! |
| 10:13.26 | SpeedEvil | And it's not even mp3. |
| 10:13.29 | SpeedEvil | It's mp2. |
| 10:13.38 | SpeedEvil | Which sounds even worse at lower bitrates. |
| 10:13.40 | thresh | we don't have any dab stations here |
| 10:13.56 | webjames | i'm going to check what bitrate i receive for the stations |
| 10:14.03 | SpeedEvil | It's also got _horrible_ spectral efficiency. |
| 10:14.24 | SpeedEvil | webjames: R2/3 tend to be put out at high bitrate. |
| 10:15.26 | SpeedEvil | (I'm speaking of the DAB system currently deployed in the UK) |
| 10:15.58 | SpeedEvil | FM is also - at the moment - considerably lower power to recieve. And much smaller receivers. |
| 10:18.29 | webjames | SpeedEvil, well R2 was 128, so was R1, R3 was 192, classic was 160, the jazz was 92Mono |
| 10:19.12 | quitte_ | heh. just improve dvb-s receivers. |
| 10:21.41 | webjames | trouble is with dvb-s is that you cannot have video on demand services, like virginmedia currently offer |
| 10:21.49 | webjames | who are cable suppliers |
| 10:23.10 | quitte_ | i doubt thats a technical limitation. skydsl manages to push internet down there after all |
| 10:24.25 | webjames | yeah, but that's so poor as most people only get 1meg out of the 8 theoretically possible with perfect lines, if sky use that to stream their on demand it would have to be so compressed the quality would be awful |
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| 10:29.03 | Hopscotch | and dvb-s doesn't work when you're mobile |
| 10:29.20 | Hopscotch | not to forget that dvb-s needs a streight line of sight without any reflections |
| 10:29.43 | hrw | dvb-t works nice in Berlin - I saw it on benq not-released handheld |
| 10:30.12 | webjames | dvb-t works well in the UK aswell |
| 10:30.20 | webjames | even on trains and the like |
| 10:30.50 | Hopscotch | yes, dvb-t copes very good with multipath propagation |
| 10:30.57 | Hopscotch | but has problems with doppler |
| 10:31.57 | koen | dvb-t also works in a car :) |
| 10:32.18 | webjames | hopscotch, aslong and your not giggling the receiver and i think it's safe to assume that the transmitter isn't moving then it's fine |
| 10:32.31 | webjames | koen, that's quite impressive |
| 10:32.52 | Hopscotch | koen: every had a look at an automotive dvb-t tuner? |
| 10:33.55 | Hopscotch | diversity, multiple demodulators, doppler compensation, ... |
| 10:34.04 | Hopscotch | nothing you want to carry around in your pocket |
| 10:34.42 | koen | Hopscotch: no, I just stuck the antenna on the roof :) |
| 10:35.01 | webjames | koen, nice so no special receiver? |
| 10:35.29 | koen | just the elgate DTT stick + included antenna |
| 10:35.33 | Hopscotch | koen: standard dvb-t stick? |
| 10:35.34 | koen | elgato* |
| 10:35.41 | Hopscotch | how fast did you drive? |
| 10:35.50 | koen | 120km/h |
| 10:36.06 | webjames | what's that, 80mph |
| 10:36.13 | koen | (.nl is flat and I drove from 1 transmitter to another) |
| 10:36.45 | Hopscotch | hmmm... that's pretty good... |
| 10:36.58 | webjames | actually ~75 |
| 10:37.03 | koen | it surprised me as well |
| 10:37.12 | Hopscotch | no chance here - to many hills... |
| 10:37.14 | Hopscotch | +o |
| 10:37.37 | hrw | ~convert 120 kmh to mph |
| 10:37.41 | webjames | and too many black spots |
| 10:37.53 | webjames | hrw:74.5 |
| 10:37.53 | hrw | ~convert 120 kph to mph |
| 10:37.54 | koen | a tiny bird told me FIC is shipping phones right now |
| 10:38.10 | hrw | nice |
| 10:38.20 | webjames | koen, where to? |
| 10:38.31 | koen | to people |
| 10:38.41 | Hopscotch | hehe |
| 10:38.54 | webjames | obviously not to me then.. unless they are surprising me |
| 10:39.52 | Hopscotch | afaik nobody has received a notice yet |
| 10:41.18 | *** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org) |
| 10:41.59 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181222091.pp.htv.fi) |
| 10:42.04 | XorA | koen: does that mean you phone arrived a week earlier than everyone elses like last time > |
| 10:42.06 | XorA | ? |
| 10:42.48 | koen | XorA: no, I heard UPS called someone to talk about customs |
| 10:43.40 | koen | I'll believe that it's shipping once I get the tracking number :) |
| 10:47.47 | *** join/#openmoko dwery (n=dwery@nslu2-linux/dwery) |
| 11:02.20 | robster | Magon: just a simple line at the top of the C file where that code is used. |
| 11:02.24 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:05.18 | Magon | robster: ok, and thanks |
| 11:08.43 | CM | SpeedEvil: AM radio has one cool thing at least, you can drive the headphones with the current induced recieving the radiosignal ;) |
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| 11:17.40 | Zenton | hi all |
| 11:17.55 | Zenton | is openmoko only related to Neo1973 phone? |
| 11:18.08 | Zenton | are anyone working in ports to other hardware? |
| 11:18.51 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178251178.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 11:19.25 | balrog-kun | Zenton: it works on different devices too |
| 11:26.00 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@5ac62f7b.bb.sky.com) |
| 11:29.21 | aloril | koen: cool (wondering if it will include GPS binary library or if that is left later) |
| 11:31.40 | balrog-kun | they would have to make some hack for this because the buildsystem doesn't have the GPS library and it's not in official images |
| 11:33.18 | hrw | balrog-kun: no hack needed |
| 11:33.45 | hrw | balrog-kun: internal repo will have recipe to build it. public repo will have recipe to fetch binaries |
| 11:34.30 | balrog-kun | hrw: will it be legal to distribute the binary separate from the phone? |
| 11:35.53 | hrw | no idea |
| 11:39.55 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=rac0r@win3173d.informatik.uni-wuerzburg.de) |
| 11:42.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
| 11:45.38 | mjr | I wouldn't delay for that but that's just me. That is, unless they haven't managed to test that the GPS chip is in any way functional :] |
| 11:46.50 | stefan_schmidt | aloril: No, GPS software has nothing to do with it |
| 11:49.02 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 11:49.06 | aloril | stefan_schmidt: OK, do you know why P1 has not been shipped for P0 devs yet? (announce said there were ready <2007-04-25) |
| 11:50.02 | aloril | mjr: yes, it doesn't make sense, P0 devs can surely update themself, for P1 it might make sense though because many clueless people will order it and bemoan lack of GPS .. |
| 11:50.41 | stefan_schmidt | aloril: Here are the facts: No shipping mail to P0 devs until now. Some people get called about custom thing from UPS. We will see the next days. |
| 11:50.55 | aloril | if needed: if GPL arrives faster and is enough good, no sense to put binary blob ;-) |
| 11:51.52 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
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| 11:58.49 | Kljaver | hello! |
| 12:00.14 | Kljaver | what about translating openmoko`s software in to russian language? |
| 12:00.15 | aloril | Kljaver: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:00.42 | Kljaver | aloril ^^ |
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| 12:26.48 | aloril | hmm.. FIC reportedly sells millions of phones, so .. is this each year? then 2 days of production would be several thousands |
| 12:27.19 | aloril | (though I guess could be just part of those 2 days ;-) |
| 12:27.40 | koen | they even have their own GSM network :) |
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| 12:34.18 | *** join/#openmoko DigeratiX (n=Digerlap@24.117.58.241) |
| 12:34.18 | MrFeetio | does anyone know how hard it is to make a GSM phone work with Cingular(AT&T), how many hoops will they make me jump through? |
| 12:34.21 | DigeratiX | not sure its hard at all since they sell tons of em |
| 12:34.31 | DigeratiX | with the neo be able to do EDGE ? |
| 12:34.32 | aloril | DigeratiX: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:34.41 | DigeratiX | clever bot |
| 12:37.17 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
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| 12:45.52 | CM | DigeratiX: No edge on the Neo1973, at least not the current version |
| 12:47.08 | DigeratiX | well im still excited, looks like a wonderful cellie |
| 12:47.19 | DigeratiX | would love to have edge capability |
| 12:47.36 | CM | Wifi is more exciting I think |
| 12:47.51 | DigeratiX | yes thats a good thing as well |
| 12:48.38 | CM | Will be interesting to see what people will do with the gps |
| 12:52.57 | *** part/#openmoko DigeratiX (n=Digerlap@24.117.58.241) |
| 12:53.04 | XorA | CM: 1800-DIALASHAG |
| 12:53.19 | CM | XorA: Hehe |
| 12:54.08 | XorA | actually will be bloody usefull for finding lost wifes/gfs on the road |
| 12:54.35 | XorA | get the phone to tell us where they are, rather than a naff description of the road like "Well its got signs" |
| 12:54.35 | Zenton | thanks balrog-kun (with a little lag :) |
| 13:00.01 | CM | XorA: A friend of mine who has no sense of direction at all takes his tomtom from the car after saving the parking position, then uses it to find the car again. ;) |
| 13:00.14 | CM | I mean after been around town or so |
| 13:00.44 | XorA | CM: at DNSCon in blackpool one of the guys entered all the strip clubs into his tomtom before getting drunk so he could find them in the dark while drunk |
| 13:01.02 | CM | Hehe, that's planning ahead! |
| 13:01.42 | XorA | that was an expensive night though :-D |
| 13:03.14 | CM | I'll use my Neo to log my biking. Moving closer to work now, so only 7 instead of 12k to bike each morning. |
| 13:05.24 | CM | I wonder how long the battery will last when used as an mp3-player, also having the gps on at the same time |
| 13:05.49 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@ppp215-239.lns1.hba1.internode.on.net) |
| 13:06.43 | koen | CM: the screen will be off, so it shouldn't be too bad |
| 13:07.51 | CM | Hope so. How many mAh is the battery? |
| 13:08.04 | CM | Ah, 1200 |
| 13:11.17 | guaqua | what's the battery voltage? |
| 13:11.23 | CM | 3.7 |
| 13:11.39 | guaqua | and what kind of threshold is there for the voltage? |
| 13:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:13.45 | drath | guaqua: isn't the battery max more like 4.[12]? |
| 13:14.26 | drath | d'oh, CM, not guaqua |
| 13:14.56 | guaqua | so there's no putting 3 1,5V cells? |
| 13:19.34 | CM | I just read what's on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery |
| 13:19.38 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 13:25.33 | CM | koen: http://apcmag.com/6041/firefox_will_move_to_mobile_phones_mozilla_ceo |
| 13:25.34 | CM | "But yes I think it's fair to say that the actual and better piece - it's called WebKit by Apple - that particular piece is easier to work with currently than our analogous technology." (Mozilla Foundation CEO Mitchell Baker) |
| 13:28.56 | koen | CM: funny, seeing how horrendously broken mozilla is on arm |
| 13:29.02 | guaqua | err |
| 13:30.07 | koen | just look at what kind of patches are needed: http://lists.debian.org/debian-arm/2007/05/msg00039.html |
| 13:30.07 | guaqua | does that mean he just means that gecko isn't good right now and they are going for webkit or that they need to work on gecko to beat webkit? |
| 13:30.17 | CM | I guess she ment the later, improve gecko |
| 13:30.35 | guaqua | she? |
| 13:31.10 | CM | Looks a lot like a she.. :) |
| 13:31.20 | CM | Check part1 |
| 13:31.36 | guaqua | mitchell is a she :F |
| 13:32.21 | XorA | gecko is a pile of monkey poo!!!! |
| 13:32.27 | CM | Well, Asa is a guy, but it sounds lika Åsa to me (Common swedish girl name) |
| 13:32.37 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@sedova.highlink.ru) |
| 13:33.52 | guaqua | Åsa spelled wrong, yes :) |
| 13:34.57 | CM | There's many names that are confusing.. |
| 13:35.23 | XorA | just get less choosy and it matters little |
| 13:36.15 | CM | Quinn Storm, the beryl leader, surely confused me.. |
| 13:36.22 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@132.213.238.4) |
| 13:36.47 | guaqua | she's the first female mitchell i've seen |
| 13:36.53 | CM | Hehe |
| 13:37.05 | guaqua | i think i knew a male megan when i was in the states |
| 13:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko gdiebel (n=gdiebel@adsl-69-217-146-185.dsl.mdsnwi.ameritech.net) |
| 13:40.15 | guaqua | if firefox doesn't roll out a mobile browser, they have already lost the war on that front |
| 13:41.59 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 13:42.25 | guaqua | she goes on to explain how firefox is something else than a browser |
| 13:42.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC]] [[User:Elhaard]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Wish_List]] |
| 13:42.30 | guaqua | which is wrong |
| 13:42.47 | guaqua | firefox is a nice piece of software, but far from perfect |
| 13:43.46 | koen | guaqua: like minimo? |
| 13:44.48 | XorA | did they decide yet whether minimo was dead or not? |
| 13:45.08 | koen | XorA: yes, they are reviving it |
| 13:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 13:45.42 | XorA | we just need Gonqueror |
| 13:45.50 | Stephmw | .. isn't this the neo? http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/technology/08sun.html?ex=1336276800&en=904f6a9e916d77f1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss |
| 13:46.21 | SuN | Doh! They stole it :D |
| 13:46.26 | *** join/#openmoko RbdPngn__ (n=ningerso@uslink-66.173.44-135.uslink.net) |
| 13:46.32 | guaqua | koen: my point is that what she is telling in that interview is crap |
| 13:46.39 | guaqua | none of the things she talks about really matter |
| 13:46.48 | guaqua | people want a browser, not a product |
| 13:46.49 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck (n=PBeck@HSI-KBW-091-089-102-236.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 13:46.53 | koen | mozilla doesn't really matter anymore |
| 13:47.02 | PBeck | hey |
| 13:47.48 | XorA | s/be/buy/ |
| 13:47.49 | gdiebel | guaqua: if your standards for software are perfection, you need to reconsider what you do for a living. firefox is the best there is, by quite a large margin |
| 13:47.55 | ynezz | elinksmobile |
| 13:47.58 | guaqua | gdiebel: err? |
| 13:48.00 | SuN | Opera is absolutely awesome, but proprietary. |
| 13:48.28 | XorA | funny the only thing I can get opera to do is crash spectacularly :-) |
| 13:48.36 | SuN | Hm |
| 13:48.45 | SuN | On your cellphone? |
| 13:48.50 | thresh | firefox is a nice piece of software ?!?! |
| 13:48.50 | guaqua | gdiebel: what i meant was that if they get lazy and try to do something else than a browser, they will be doomed |
| 13:48.54 | thresh | you're kidding ?? |
| 13:48.56 | XorA | SuN: on my cellphone and on my linux desktop |
| 13:49.20 | ynezz | opera never crashed on my cellphone |
| 13:49.23 | SuN | Weird... haven't had it crash a single time on my cellphone, and it crashes maybe once a month on my desktop. |
| 13:49.39 | XorA | are you guys talking Opera, or OperaMini? |
| 13:49.44 | SuN | Which is acceptable, since I use it daily and it has had session management for ages. |
| 13:49.51 | CM | I like OperaMini |
| 13:49.52 | drath | heh, it crashes every now and then here (desktop), but still a lot less than firefox |
| 13:49.56 | SuN | Opera Mobile, haven't tried OperaMini yet. |
| 13:49.58 | guaqua | gdiebel: and i disagree on firefox being the best. it's usability is nowhere near opera's on desktop and they don't even have a browser for mobiles |
| 13:50.08 | CM | Sufing with it actually works, even over gprs on my k750i |
| 13:50.29 | XorA | CM: Opera Mini is a nice bit of work, main opera is a pile of junk |
| 13:50.32 | SuN | Firefox has a fairly clumsy interface compared to Opera, but it's hard to tell that to Firefox-biased people :D |
| 13:50.40 | CM | XorA: Agreed :) |
| 13:51.07 | gdiebel | guaqua: show me usabilty on opera that can't be easily achieved with a ff extension. also opera is off my rader, because of license |
| 13:51.11 | CM | SuN: You use those fancy gestures and all? |
| 13:51.18 | SuN | CM: yes, a lot. |
| 13:51.19 | koen | guaqua: a browser like minimo? |
| 13:51.35 | ynezz | gdiebel: there is no minimo for s60 3rd phone so... |
| 13:51.37 | guaqua | koen: that's win ce, for a nokia there's no mozilla option |
| 13:51.45 | ynezz | true |
| 13:51.51 | ynezz | there is webkit |
| 13:52.06 | koen | it does run on mobile phones |
| 13:52.06 | ynezz | but didn't tried it yet |
| 13:52.06 | guaqua | gdiebel: extension? it's crappy by default - with a dozen extensions and it still doesn't match opera |
| 13:52.09 | guaqua | opera is faster and leaner |
| 13:52.12 | ynezz | koen: there is no minimo port for symbian OS |
| 13:52.22 | SuN | So does FIrefox finally have a hotkey for clearing the address bar now? Or even a button? :D |
| 13:52.26 | koen | ynezz: and symbian is the *only* os? |
| 13:52.30 | XorA | yup, its quicker to crash opera than firefox :-D |
| 13:52.43 | *** join/#openmoko madewokherd (n=urk@VRP5000.rhbd.psu.edu) |
| 13:52.44 | koen | ynezz: my point was that "they don't even have a browser for mobiles" is nonsense |
| 13:52.50 | ynezz | ok |
| 13:52.51 | ynezz | ic |
| 13:53.07 | guaqua | java os for neo, interesting |
| 13:53.07 | gdiebel | SuN: uh just hit ctrl+l the current contents will be selected. |
| 13:53.36 | SuN | Ok, sufficient. |
| 13:53.37 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn) |
| 13:53.39 | SuN | Paste and go? |
| 13:53.44 | CM | and ctrl+k to go to the search field |
| 13:54.28 | guaqua | koen: what they offer for mobiles doesn't match the stuff opera offers. my comment was linked to that. if we wanna go literal there's something for practically every platform, but nothing you can actually use |
| 13:54.34 | SuN | Nice one, though I'm used to keyword search (as in "g <keyword>" in the address bar, I'm sure there's a FF extension for that. |
| 13:54.39 | CM | SuN: I think they removed that but I'm not sure.. I used to mark an url, then just middle click in the browser window to go there. Since 2.0 it just scrolls around |
| 13:54.46 | guaqua | i tried minimo on win ce, and it doesn't do it. ie is better there |
| 13:55.08 | CM | SuN: No extention, it works in the addressbar too. And "wp <text> to search wikipedia |
| 13:55.37 | SuN | Ahh cool, they finally copied that :) |
| 13:55.43 | guaqua | gdiebel: also, opera's fast forward is handy, didn't find stuff like that in firefox |
| 13:55.48 | SuN | I don't mind though, the more people can use that sort of stuff, the better. |
| 13:55.52 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:56.08 | gdiebel | SuN: paste and go can be set with a about:config string |
| 13:56.17 | SuN | In, say, 10 years, when FF has integrated all that stuff, I might switch. |
| 13:56.23 | SuN | Oh great, an about:config string. |
| 13:56.41 | gdiebel | guaqua: many ways to achieve, greasemonkey script can be more powerful than fast forward is in opera |
| 13:57.05 | ynezz | on wince I would rather see just gecko wrapped into native wince interface |
| 13:58.16 | koen | guaqua: and opera doesn't offer anything on the platforms I run, so that's useless as well |
| 13:58.44 | SuN | It used to run on Openzaurus Opie. |
| 13:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9beb5c0.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 13:59.18 | gdiebel | right as koen indicates and oh I don't know the channel name being OPENmoko, opera is off many peoples radar. try reading some materials on fsf.org |
| 13:59.32 | guaqua | koen: that's another thing |
| 13:59.46 | SuN | Open like the GPS driver? ;) |
| 13:59.49 | koen | gdiebel: I am not allowed to install proprietary software?!??! |
| 14:00.02 | ynezz | :) |
| 14:00.13 | SuN | Dillo was nice until people started using CSS. |
| 14:00.17 | zecke_ | XorA: poor boy |
| 14:00.18 | ynezz | elinks on wince/symbian would be dope |
| 14:00.21 | SuN | A CSS+javascript engine in Dillo would rock. |
| 14:00.41 | XorA | zecke_: wazzup? |
| 14:00.56 | guaqua | i think i just like the philosophy behind opera's user interface better. they incorporate new stuff by default and you don't have to go bleeding edge on some exotic extensions to have a modern browser |
| 14:01.07 | CM | It's a shame it died before the conversion to FLTK |
| 14:01.08 | zecke_ | XorA: You should not prefer dillo over WebKit |
| 14:01.23 | XorA | zecke_: get webkit browsers working then :-) |
| 14:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko webjames (n=james@cpc1-oxfd9-0-0-cust930.oxfd.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:01.50 | zecke_ | XorA: thanks to alp the GdkLauncher works (somehow) |
| 14:02.03 | XorA | zecke_: cool, so there is forward progress |
| 14:02.32 | gdiebel | koen: allowed? of course you can do what you want. this just seems like an odd conversation for the openmoko channel. I mean what got you interested in the platform in the first place? in my case, the nearly total lack of proprietary software. |
| 14:02.47 | koen | heh |
| 14:03.14 | guaqua | gdiebel: you should get a rash from openmoko |
| 14:03.28 | guaqua | look at gps, gms and all that proprietary stuff |
| 14:03.41 | guaqua | and they have the nerve to call it open! |
| 14:03.43 | XorA | oh well time to quit /. says Ubuntu Embedded is gonna end OpenMoko :-D |
| 14:04.13 | quitte | hehe |
| 14:04.18 | koen | heh |
| 14:04.27 | quitte | it might emdebian,though |
| 14:04.34 | quitte | uhm end emdebian |
| 14:04.38 | CM | How does GMAE fit into everything? |
| 14:04.52 | CM | I do see a Neo at http://www.gnome.org/mobile/ |
| 14:05.12 | gdiebel | I will reiterate, nearly total lack. besides oss purity aside, the major software components such as browser are vastly more important than gps driver which will not really benefit from more eyeballs/hands hacking |
| 14:05.18 | Robot101 | CM: same way as GNOME fits in on desktop Linux atm |
| 14:05.43 | *** join/#openmoko MrFeetio (n=david@c-69-248-212-153.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:05.54 | quitte | XorA: qtopia? |
| 14:06.08 | XorA | quitte: no, just KDE |
| 14:06.11 | guaqua | gdiebel: so you'd be willing to use any proprietary operating system if there was no need to hack operating system? |
| 14:06.44 | hrw | XorA: and Ångströmoko |
| 14:07.05 | XorA | hrw: and KÅngströmoko |
| 14:07.12 | guaqua | enlightenment would have the eye candy |
| 14:07.25 | aloril | GPL GPS driver will likely happen soon anyway ;-) |
| 14:07.40 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 14:08.16 | webjames | aloril: exactly, the closed source is not a permanent solution |
| 14:08.19 | gdiebel | nobody addressed my question, what got you interested in openmoko/open embedded in the first place? |
| 14:08.39 | quitte | ~poll |
| 14:08.53 | apt | Script for automating Fidonet polls. URL: http://www.drmach.demon.co.uk/vashti/software/index.html |
| 14:08.54 | guaqua | because with openmoko there's hope of getting things done right |
| 14:08.54 | mjr | same thing that got to you |
| 14:08.54 | hrw | gdiebel: Zaurus SL-5500 with OpenZaurus 3.3.5 |
| 14:09.10 | koen | with openmoko there was hope of things done right |
| 14:09.28 | mjr | As aloril said, gps can be freed. GSM isn't really a part of openmoko, just a part of a device that includes openmoko. It would be nice to have a free GSM stack too, sure, but willing to wait on that. |
| 14:09.29 | guaqua | was? :< |
| 14:09.44 | Stephmw | koen, hrw: did you read my nytimes link? |
| 14:09.45 | webjames | also, have you seen the orange, it's a must for any man about town |
| 14:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe29dd00-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 14:10.03 | gdiebel | webjames: too true my good man |
| 14:10.05 | koen | Stephmw: I read a few nytimes links today, which one? |
| 14:10.16 | aloril | its basically Linux distribution with source of almost everything and thus can change/add anything I want |
| 14:10.22 | Stephmw | koen: the one with the Neo1973 and Sun's JavaFX |
| 14:10.28 | koen | yes |
| 14:10.31 | koen | hilarous |
| 14:10.34 | koen | +i |
| 14:10.36 | aloril | Stephmw: yeah, that is interesting screenshot |
| 14:10.55 | Stephmw | obviously a mockup, but I'm curious about the Sun MicroSystems caption on it |
| 14:11.26 | mjr | well, certainly they _can_ put their javafx or whatever on a neo if they wish (once available) :] |
| 14:11.39 | hrw | Stephmw: no |
| 14:12.03 | Stephmw | mjr: yeah, I wondering whether they've bothered to tell anyone at FIC this :) |
| 14:12.41 | guaqua | is this just basically a gui made with web scripting technology? |
| 14:13.18 | Stephmw | I'd say that's likely for the user-changeable portions |
| 14:13.27 | Stephmw | I don't see the rest of the UI being dones that way |
| 14:13.52 | guaqua | it's an interesting idea |
| 14:16.19 | quitte | could someone give me a link? |
| 14:16.31 | ynezz | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:16.45 | ynezz | http://www.nytimes.com/2007/05/08/technology/08sun.html?ex=1336276800&en=904f6a9e916d77f1&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss |
| 14:16.50 | Placid | XorA: The 'end' section of that post was a question, not a statement :) |
| 14:17.49 | quitte | ynezz: if i didn'T step on the power switch that might have worked |
| 14:18.13 | XorA | Placid: I know I was kidding :-D |
| 14:18.37 | ynezz | quitte: what? |
| 14:18.41 | Placid | XorA: phew :D |
| 14:18.52 | Placid | (I wrote the article) |
| 14:19.23 | XorA | quick lynch Placid |
| 14:19.56 | Placid | lol |
| 14:20.15 | Placid | For the record, I would prefer openmoko & the Neo |
| 14:20.24 | Placid | Hence the reason i'm in here, and not in #ubuntu or #intel :) |
| 14:20.38 | Placid | I'd prefer a truely open solution |
| 14:20.58 | koen | for ubuntu 'embedded' means 'laptop with 10" screen' |
| 14:21.14 | Placid | heh |
| 14:21.30 | koen | 'only 20GB HD' |
| 14:21.41 | ynezz | there is arm port of ubuntu? |
| 14:21.43 | guaqua | openmoko is as close as you can get to mobile phone with debian on it |
| 14:22.01 | guaqua | if not running debian that is |
| 14:22.12 | alphaone | Placid: You wrote that article? Where is that picture from? |
| 14:22.19 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 14:23.20 | Placid | alphaone: What picture? I meant the /. article |
| 14:23.28 | alphaone | ah, okay |
| 14:23.43 | alphaone | Placid: I thought the nytimes one. |
| 14:24.03 | Placid | alphaone: lmao |
| 14:26.38 | *** join/#openmoko shenki (n=shenki@ppp44-233.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 14:29.43 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (i=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 14:29.47 | amarsh04 | apt - I still run 3:800/812 |
| 14:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko trivex (n=trivex@yukon.ncct.uottawa.ca) |
| 14:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko nm_ (n=nm@203.210.199.62) |