| 00:00.30 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - BTW: From where in .de are you? |
| 00:01.02 | CoreDump|home | cologne |
| 00:01.18 | Elrond | Ahh :) |
| 00:03.19 | Elrond | Hmm, a second reason to go to linuxtag... mickey will be there. :) |
| 00:05.06 | CoreDump|home | ;) |
| 00:05.17 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9bea363.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 00:05.26 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3FCC4.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 00:06.28 | Elrond | I guess, many german p0 people will also be there? |
| 00:06.52 | rwhitby | shenki: ping |
| 00:08.12 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I know at least 3. ;) |
| 00:08.13 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: I dunno. I for one won't be there |
| 00:08.39 | balrog-kun | what was the first reason? :-) |
| 00:08.44 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - Oh. |
| 00:09.13 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - the Braunschweig-connection? |
| 00:09.21 | *** join/#openmoko bhima (n=gopi@adsl-10-37-196.mia.bellsouth.net) |
| 00:09.23 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh, 100 points :) |
| 00:10.05 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: We decided to make it to the embedded day only. To much other stuff. |
| 00:10.13 | Elrond | Can I exchange those 100 points into half a neo? ;o) |
| 00:11.19 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - I still don't know, when/if/how I will come. |
| 00:11.40 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh, which half? Top or bottom? |
| 00:12.06 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Let us know. Perhaps we can have a real life chat. |
| 00:12.10 | Elrond | The one with the gps. ;o) |
| 00:12.23 | Elrond | Yeah, I will. |
| 00:12.58 | bhima | If it has trouble grabbing my email, it decides that I must have mis-configured my POP settings. |
| 00:13.02 | bhima | and disables auto-downloads. |
| 00:13.47 | bhima | It doesn't ask me, it just tells me. |
| 00:13.51 | abraxa_ | Elrond: Lemme know, too - maybe we can go together :) |
| 00:13.52 | balrog-kun | well, if you growl at it regularly |
| 00:14.26 | Elrond | abraxa_ - :-) I will likely take the train. ;) |
| 00:14.47 | bhima | The fact that most commercial phones are just filled with simple, easy to fix stupid shit is one of the reasons I want an open source phone. |
| 00:15.21 | abraxa_ | Elrond: Ouch... that's like 200 bucks right there |
| 00:16.56 | Elrond | abraxa_ - Huh, I haven't yet checked the train prices. But it shouldn't be that hard. I travel for 60 bucks to/from viena. :) |
| 00:18.06 | abraxa_ | Elrond: Well, if you take the ICE it's 180 bucks at least (roundtrip) =x |
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| 00:23.49 | Elrond | abraxa_ - Ich hab' 95Euro. |
| 00:23.55 | Elrond | ... einfach mal durchgeklickt. ;) |
| 00:24.11 | Elrond | Huh, excuse me for german ;) |
| 00:24.17 | abraxa_ | Elrond: Did you make use of some special ticket? :o |
| 00:24.22 | abraxa_ | hehe ;) |
| 00:26.33 | Elrond | abraxa_ - Yep, "Sparpreis 50" ;) |
| 00:29.11 | abraxa_ | Interesting, I didn't know such a thing existed |
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| 00:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko drWyrM (n=wyrm@201.2.68.83) |
| 00:30.47 | Elrond | Bahn is close to the roulette game of flying. ;) |
| 00:32.44 | drath | heh, guess planes are more reliable |
| 00:33.11 | Elrond | drath - I meant the price-game. |
| 00:33.25 | Elrond | If you book 5mins later, it's 30% cheaper, and stuff. |
| 00:33.35 | drath | ah, yeah |
| 00:34.19 | abraxa_ | Makes me wonder how much a trip to Berlin would end up being - including lodging and attendance fees (if any) |
| 00:36.01 | Elrond | attendence fee: If you know someone who already has a ticket, they might invite you (not me. I don't have a ticket either). |
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| 00:36.55 | Elrond | abraxa_ - depends on how long you want to stay, and how good food you want ;) |
| 00:39.42 | abraxa_ | True that... I do kinda want to go but then again I know I should save up. I hate making that kind of decision |
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| 00:48.27 | Elrond | I'm getting into my bed now. Good night people. |
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| 00:58.20 | MindUs | Free phone calls all around the world - http://callfree.point-serv.com/en/ |
| 00:58.22 | *** part/#openmoko MindUs (n=10373019@84.228.72.55) |
| 00:59.19 | abraxa_ | Kind of ironic to advertise that here... |
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| 01:01.29 | Cyphi^ | y |
| 01:09.32 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenEmbedded]] [[Talk:OpenEmbedded]] |
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| 02:22.30 | charkins | i'm trying to build qemu with MokoMakefile but its not finding a header file: linux/usb_gadgetfs.h: No such file or directory |
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| 02:23.15 | cjb | charkins: perhaps your kernel version is too old to have that header |
| 02:23.52 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1882 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c2410_udc-vbus_draw_pdata.patch: |
| 02:23.52 | CIA-16 | openmoko: vbus_draw now has 'unsigned' parameter 'ma', alter s3c2410 udc driver to comply |
| 02:23.52 | CIA-16 | openmoko: with this. Also make sure our vbus_draw function always returns something, even |
| 02:23.52 | CIA-16 | openmoko: if there is no machine/platform-specific vbus_draw callback. |
| 02:24.00 | pjz | cjb: does the new qemu have usb support!? |
| 02:26.22 | charkins | cjb: thanks, i'll dig around (i'm on fc6 with 2.6.20 kernel, so maybe its packaged separately) |
| 02:28.02 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1883 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (9 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 02:28.02 | CIA-16 | openmoko: major 2.6.21 sync cleanup: |
| 02:28.02 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * consistently rename MACH_GTA01 to MACH_NEO1973_GTA01 throughout code |
| 02:28.03 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * fix asoc kconfig/makefile integration |
| 02:28.03 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * fix pcf50606:free_irq() to free the IRQ that was requested, rather than |
| 02:28.03 | CIA-16 | openmoko: constant IRQ number |
| 02:28.06 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * automatically select SND_SOC_UDA1380 when building for smdk2440 |
| 02:29.27 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1884 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (2 files in 2 dirs): bump mokoversion of 2.6.21 kernel to moko10 to reflect major bugfixes |
| 02:32.19 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1885 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/defconfig-2.6.21.1-fic-gta01: new defconfig for moko10 version |
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| 02:45.24 | kito_ | Is linuxtag in Berlin? |
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| 03:02.37 | Richard | openmoko build error, http://pastebin.ca/466643 |
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| 03:09.32 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Pj]] |
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| 04:57.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1886 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: * make pcf50606 driver irq save by local_irq_{save,restore}() calls, which fixes the 'i2c timeout' problems |
| 05:09.32 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]] |
| 05:24.39 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 05:26.42 | DukeOfURL | sitting here with my new 22" LCD display. Would rather have spent the money on a Neo |
| 05:27.54 | DukeOfURL | counter |
| 05:27.55 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week, 6 days 18:32:07 (13.772 +-3.5 days) (1059;191) |
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| 05:35.49 | aloril | 1 week 2 days to manufacturing start (counter counts last possible times, while manufacturing is at Asian time) |
| 05:40.37 | aloril | it feels closer than at any earlier time ;-) |
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| 05:45.56 | wehttamb_ | counter? |
| 05:45.57 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 6 days 18:14:04 (13.760 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, 2 weeks, a day (138.260 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1060;191) |
| 05:46.00 | wehttamb_ | counter |
| 05:46.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week, 6 days 18:14:00 (13.760 +-3.5 days) (1061;191) |
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| 07:36.07 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:37.23 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1887 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-omoko.c): |
| 07:37.23 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-omoko.c: (create_contacts_list): Change "Cell Phone" to more generic "Mobile" |
| 07:37.23 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (create_main_window): Set application name to "Contacts". Fixes bug 490. |
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| 08:34.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1888 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (5 files in 2 dirs): (log message trimmed) |
| 08:34.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-callbacks-ebook.c: (contacts_added_cb): |
| 08:34.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-callbacks-ui.c: (contacts_delete_cb): |
| 08:34.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-main.c: (main): |
| 08:34.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-utils.c: (contacts_string_list_as_string): |
| 08:35.00 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Merge in changes from mainline Contacts, including: |
| 08:35.02 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - Miscellaneous memory fixes |
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| 08:55.53 | Magon | mickey|zzZZzz: Hi, I need a little help from you. Is it possible to make non-fullscreen window? |
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| 09:06.41 | yacc | Magon: What for? |
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| 09:12.23 | Magon | yacc: parent of finger wheel |
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| 09:17.14 | yacc | Magon: override redirect? |
| 09:20.15 | Magon | yacc: redirect of what? |
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| 10:05.30 | buz | off topic question: is 1st of may a holiday in germany? |
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| 10:06.08 | pH5 | buz: yes |
| 10:06.17 | Magon | buz: good question |
| 10:06.18 | buz | pH5: thx |
| 10:06.32 | buz | that explains why i cant seem to reach anyone at the company i want to call ;) |
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| 10:07.20 | buz | ah so it's much the same as in zurich ;) |
| 10:08.10 | Stephmw | likewise in France |
| 10:08.23 | Stephmw | note that in the UK it's next Monday |
| 10:09.56 | Magon | does anyone have idea how to get finger wheel on screen without window under it? |
| 10:10.21 | Magon | I still cannot find the way |
| 10:12.04 | thresh | yeah, holidays here too |
| 10:12.06 | thresh | (ru) |
| 10:12.18 | Magon | holidays everywhere :-) |
| 10:13.05 | buz | actually parts of switzerland dont have holiday |
| 10:13.16 | thresh | well, it doesnt seem so in london :) |
| 10:13.17 | Magon | that is sad |
| 10:14.25 | jserv2 | Ahh?! |
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| 10:20.00 | kiney | counter? |
| 10:20.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 6 days 13:40:01 (13.569 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, 2 weeks, a day (138.069 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1062;191) |
| 10:22.04 | *** join/#openmoko barmeier (n=barmeier@dslb-088-072-009-077.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:22.07 | barmeier | hi |
| 10:24.14 | *** join/#openmoko bhimasleep (n=gopi@64.213.69.24) |
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| 10:41.53 | Fletch | counter |
| 10:41.53 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week, 6 days 13:18:08 (13.554 +-3.5 days) (1063;191) |
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| 10:43.52 | fledermaus | aloril: counter |
| 10:43.52 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week, 6 days 13:16:09 (13.553 +-3.5 days) (1064;191) |
| 10:44.08 | fledermaus | it's gone up :/ |
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| 10:48.05 | quitte | is the neo hardware capable of push to talk? |
| 10:48.45 | zecke | quitte: do you live in a country were push to talk is actually used? |
| 10:49.23 | quitte | yes. the same country you live in. a frind just asked. i have no idea why anyone would want that,though |
| 10:49.50 | zecke | quitte: not having used it, I think the hardware doesn't need special support for it? Just a guess |
| 10:50.23 | Stephmw | PTT afaik is mostly a software thing |
| 10:50.24 | quitte | i have absolutely no idea. but i mightbe abl to convince him of implemenmting it if the hardware suppored it |
| 10:50.34 | Stephmw | all the hardware needs is a button |
| 10:51.03 | quitte | thesoftware might be needed in the gsm module,though? |
| 10:51.38 | Stephmw | I don't _think_ so |
| 10:51.48 | Stephmw | but best to investigate that |
| 10:52.03 | yacc | Magon: that's the way application signal the window manager should not manage the window. |
| 10:52.18 | XorA | the hardware could quite easilly manage a SCO connection to a local device |
| 10:52.26 | yacc | Even more interesting, is May 1st a holiday in California? |
| 10:52.30 | XorA | so at least over BT talking directly should work |
| 10:52.49 | zecke | quitte: go to OMA and check the spec |
| 10:53.37 | quitte | OMA? |
| 10:53.47 | quitte | she doest know anything about phones |
| 10:54.14 | zecke | quitte: OpenMobileAlliance, there is a working group for Push To Talk |
| 10:54.43 | quitte | ok. maybe after tomorrows hangover |
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| 10:55.50 | koen | isn't PTT just gsm-over-gprs? |
| 10:56.06 | zecke | koen: half duplex whatever this means |
| 10:56.17 | koen | yes, to paper over the huge lag |
| 10:56.41 | zecke | seing it is specified at OMA, it is likely to only be a software thing |
| 10:58.08 | zecke | koen: "Hey lets allow VoIP in a way people don't use it. And then we can claim people don't want VoIP" - Operators master plan |
| 10:58.17 | koen | :) |
| 10:58.34 | koen | (the neo has buttons in awkward places anyway) |
| 11:04.43 | bhimasleep_ | OMA is GSM over IP, right? |
| 11:04.43 | aloril | bhimasleep_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:11.54 | Elrond | zecke - Didn't you already lart it yesterday? |
| 11:12.35 | Elrond | gsm over ip?! What happened to sip? |
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| 11:17.50 | zecke | Elrond: yes, and I find new things annoying me. I should checkout guilt soon |
| 11:19.05 | Elrond | zecke - What exactly are you working on? |
| 11:19.56 | zecke | WebKit patches. As svn wc's operations so slow I have used git-svn. And to manage my patch-set I try to use stg-it. But it is worse than early quilt versions |
| 11:22.50 | Elrond | You create patchsets for the official webkit? |
| 11:23.05 | zecke | i try to |
| 11:24.32 | Elrond | Have you tried to contact upstream, if they accept patches? |
| 11:24.48 | Elrond | (that way your local patchset will hopefully slowly shrink) |
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| 11:26.10 | zecke | Elrond: I can't stand people not working with upstream, and hopefully I won't commit this crime |
| 11:26.34 | Elrond | Okay. :-) |
| 11:27.22 | Elrond | I use plain git for alike things, but I'm very used to git anyway, so it's no problem for me to just change a patch in the middle. ;) |
| 11:27.58 | zecke | Elrond: well, I would have difficulties in git-format-patch and git rebase on review cycles |
| 11:29.06 | zecke | at least stgit promises to ease such things |
| 11:29.37 | Elrond | Huh, what difficulties? |
| 11:30.29 | zecke | Elrond: imagine I have one file |
| 11:30.38 | zecke | Elrond: and I do two actions to it. Cleanup and Extend |
| 11:31.00 | Elrond | In two git-commits, yeah. |
| 11:31.02 | zecke | Elrond: I want to have a Cleanup and Extend patch falling out, even after review cycles |
| 11:31.34 | zecke | Elrond: so I would have m commits and a chain like this a->b->c->d->e->f |
| 11:31.46 | Elrond | Right. |
| 11:31.47 | zecke | Elrond: I want a,e,f in the Cleanup patch and b,c,d in the extend patch |
| 11:31.53 | Magon | yacc: ok, but how to get GdkWindow from GtkWindow? |
| 11:32.15 | zecke | Elrond: I don't know if git-format-patch ranges can do that |
| 11:32.16 | Elrond | Magon - C or python? In python GtkWindow.window |
| 11:32.27 | Magon | C |
| 11:32.37 | Magon | I cannot find it in man |
| 11:32.59 | Elrond | Magon - GtkWindow should have a "window" attribute. |
| 11:34.07 | Magon | just screen |
| 11:34.58 | Magon | at least that says GTK+ ref man |
| 11:35.09 | Elrond | Magon - GtkWidtet hat "window". |
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| 11:35.48 | Elrond | zecke - git-format-patch should do it, I think. |
| 11:36.00 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1889 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (6 files): openmoko-dialer: Add static declarations and remove unnecessary/unused code |
| 11:36.07 | Magon | Elrond: ok, lets try |
| 11:36.44 | Elrond | zecke - Yep, git-format-patch does it. git-rebase uses it internally, and I use git-rebase so often. |
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| 11:37.03 | PBeck | hi |
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| 12:02.23 | balrog-kun | hrw|gone: ping |
| 12:08.05 | loufoque | are people happy of their phase 1 phone? |
| 12:13.07 | koen | loufoque: you're living in the future |
| 12:14.10 | loufoque | it's not out yet? |
| 12:15.16 | loufoque | hmm, only mid may |
| 12:15.22 | loufoque | I thought it was scheduled for april. |
| 12:17.29 | mjr | it was |
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| 12:30.52 | thomasg_ | but the first 150 devices should be gone out, shouldnt they? |
| 12:31.42 | Elrond | Magon - BTW: Why do you need to access the window of a GtkWindow? |
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| 12:33.24 | Magon | Elrond: I need to draw finger Wheel on screen |
| 12:33.33 | Magon | and cannot figure out how to do it |
| 12:33.55 | Elrond | Magon - a) Use a GtkDrawingArea. b) Check out cairo |
| 12:34.22 | Elrond | Magon - There's a tutorial on using cairo with gtk. |
| 12:34.23 | Magon | there is cairo on OpenMoko? |
| 12:35.09 | Elrond | Magon - http://gnomejournal.org/article/34/writing-a-widget-using-cairo-and-gtk28 |
| 12:35.11 | mjr | thomasg_, seems like it |
| 12:35.31 | Elrond | Magon - Gtk uses cairo for most widgets now, I hear. |
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| 12:36.26 | mjr | slashdot talking encrypted mobile calls, made a short note on how openmoko would make a good platform for such: http://it.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=232941&threshold=1&commentsort=0&mode=thread&pid=18938889#18939107 |
| 12:36.32 | Magon | Elrond: ok..will consider that |
| 12:37.32 | Elrond | Magon - If you can't use cairo (which I highly doubt, OpenMoko's idea is to use desktop technology on the handset), the tutorial might still be worth looking at. |
| 12:37.56 | Magon | yes thx |
| 12:38.39 | Magon | I need to do exactly what openmoko-keyboard does, but i have to do it in GTK |
| 12:38.42 | Elrond | How to dissect a jffs2 on a desktop? |
| 12:38.53 | zecke|food | Elrond: use mtdram |
| 12:39.03 | zecke|food | Elrond: and then dd the jffs2 into it |
| 12:39.26 | Elrond | zecke|food - That's a fake-mtd device for my kernel? |
| 12:39.38 | zecke|food | Elrond: right modinfo mtdram |
| 12:40.52 | Elrond | zecke|food - Is there anything, that works only in userspace? |
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| 12:54.55 | balrog-kun | i'd use qemu for that but that might not be the shortest path |
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| 12:56.08 | balrog-kun | if you knew what the content is you wouldn't have to dissect it :) |
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| 13:03.38 | Elrond | koen - See balrog-kun ;-) |
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| 13:12.17 | koen | ok, kernel 2.6.21.1 works now |
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| 13:13.27 | Elrond | koen - What did you do? |
| 13:13.38 | koen | file a bug and wait for harald to fix it |
| 13:13.49 | Elrond | Ahh :) |
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| 13:14.09 | Elrond | So the average-time-to-fix just got smaller? ;) |
| 13:14.18 | koen | sort of |
| 13:14.30 | koen | the patches got fixes, but the defconfig is broken |
| 13:14.40 | koen | so I fixed the defconfig in OE :) |
| 13:14.48 | Elrond | hihi ;) |
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| 13:16.32 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:BuiltInScriptingLanguage]] [[Main_Page]] |
| 13:19.19 | Magon | Elrond: found a way..probaly...gtk_window_set_type_hint |
| 13:25.12 | Vegar | koen: it works now? |
| 13:25.49 | Elrond | koen - Let us know, what you find. :-) |
| 13:25.51 | koen | I can power it on |
| 13:27.35 | MetaBookfoziS | is there any existsing navigation software for linux? (or specially oe?) |
| 13:27.58 | koen | maemo-mapper |
| 13:28.19 | MetaBookfoziS | i check, thanx:) |
| 13:28.34 | Elrond | MetaBookfoziS - maemo-mapper (but I consider it a mess from an internal point of view), gpsdrive. |
| 13:28.43 | Elrond | MetaBookfoziS - Also a few others. |
| 13:29.01 | MetaBookfoziS | uhum |
| 13:29.06 | balrog-kun | there's also the tomtom software, iirc the license on it is unknown and there's no source |
| 13:29.26 | Elrond | If I have too much time, a friend and I might write some python-gtk based thingy. |
| 13:29.57 | Elrond | koen - Did you try feeding it witht the init-sequence from the wiki? |
| 13:30.22 | MetaBookfoziS | cool. |
| 13:32.18 | koen | Elrond: someone removed the sequence from the wiki |
| 13:32.33 | Elrond | koen - *arg* Why did they do that?! |
| 13:32.48 | koen | check http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hammerhead_protocol |
| 13:32.53 | Stephmw | will it be in the diffs? |
| 13:33.48 | Elrond | Stephmw - It should. |
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| 13:35.21 | rmt2 | Hmm.. is there some consensus on whether encrypting voice comms will be possible? Direct access to microphone & speaker + data access would be the requirement, I guess. |
| 13:35.21 | aloril | rmt2: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:35.52 | Elrond | fresh from the strace: |
| 13:35.57 | Elrond | 1) "\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80\x80" |
| 13:36.22 | Stephmw | that seems a bit repetitive :) |
| 13:36.33 | SpeedEvil | It's to autobaud the UART |
| 13:36.55 | Elrond | 2) "\xff\x0c\xfd\xc0\x00\xfc\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00\x00" |
| 13:36.55 | SpeedEvil | rmt2: basically - not. |
| 13:36.56 | koen | 0x80, isn't that ascii "." ? |
| 13:37.09 | Elrond | koen - No. |
| 13:37.13 | SpeedEvil | rmt2: you have no raw access to the datastream. |
| 13:37.39 | rmt2 | Hrmph. Mobile voice encryption is a $$$ business, it would seem. |
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| 13:38.18 | SpeedEvil | There are possible hacks like using data mode, which is usually very expensive, GPRS, which is hopelessly laggy, or the most insane, and probably would actually work ish: |
| 13:38.25 | Elrond | ASCII 8/0 is decimal 128, hex 80, octal 200, bits 10000000: meta-^@ |
| 13:38.56 | SpeedEvil | A vocoder excited by a datastream, and speech recognition on the other end. |
| 13:39.05 | koen | http://www.openembedded.org/~koen/hammerhead.txt should do the trick, right? |
| 13:39.10 | SpeedEvil | Apparently, you can get 1.5kbits/sec or so by this method. |
| 13:40.09 | XorA | rmt2: yes |
| 13:40.12 | Elrond | koen - for the fist init. But you need the seconf too. :) |
| 13:40.13 | rmt2 | SpeedEvil: Hehe. Ok.. pity, though.. I guess we always have SMS' when we need to issue death orders. :) |
| 13:40.30 | XorA | SpeedEvil: yes you do |
| 13:40.36 | Elrond | <-- gets some icecream. :) |
| 13:40.39 | XorA | encryption is very possible |
| 13:41.14 | XorA | just only via GPRS |
| 13:41.15 | SpeedEvil | Encryption is the trivial part. |
| 13:41.23 | SpeedEvil | The hard part is the data transfer cheaply. |
| 13:41.30 | rmt2 | Having worked at telcos, SMS' are the most sensitive to interception (and general interception for purposes of humor - you'd be surprised what a search for "anal" in the SMS queue turns up) |
| 13:41.36 | SpeedEvil | But, you can do vocoder over the 1kbit+ link. |
| 13:42.18 | SpeedEvil | Push to talk via GPRS should work just fine encrypted. |
| 13:42.47 | XorA | you can also encrypt in the analogue domain :-) |
| 13:42.52 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 13:43.04 | rmt2 | Has there been any luck finding a WiFi model that could be included in future versions? |
| 13:43.08 | SpeedEvil | Doing that _securely_ in a manner that will survive GSM is non-trivial. |
| 13:43.10 | SpeedEvil | rmt2: yes. |
| 13:43.55 | koen | Elrond: like http://www.openembedded.org/~koen/hammerhead2.txt ? |
| 13:44.06 | rmt2 | Ah, I see.. The FAQ is useful. :-) Atheros might be it.. |
| 13:44.15 | XorA | SpeedEvil: Id just do something based on time division, Im betting if a snooper is already jacked into the GSM network to that level he has probably already bugged your car and office |
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| 13:48.25 | baird | XorA: the FPGA-based software radios are 'off the shelf' these days.. (Ettus' Gnuradio modems, WinRadio, etc..) They'll become more common with time.. |
| 13:48.54 | XorA | baird: still none of them can realtime crack the GSM stream |
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| 13:53.56 | Elrond | koen - Yep, hammerhead2.txt looks good. |
| 13:55.25 | Stephmw | rmt2: IPoSMS is the solution |
| 13:55.43 | koen | Elrond: the uart seems to stay silent |
| 13:56.35 | Elrond | koen - You've put it into 8n1? |
| 13:57.37 | rmt2 | Stephmw: :-P |
| 14:02.06 | Elrond | koen - stty -F /dev/ttyS1 raw speed 115200 -crtscts cs8 -parenb -cstopb |
| 14:02.17 | Elrond | koen - stty -F /dev/ttySAC1 raw speed 115200 -crtscts cs8 -parenb -cstopb |
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| 14:46.45 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1890 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/defconfig-2.6.21.1-fic-gta01: this is moko10, not moko8 (copy mistake) |
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| 15:16.32 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 16:48.12 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1891 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/dialer-window-outgoing.c: openmoko-dialer: Use MokoMessageDialog for window-outgoing |
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| 18:49.17 | Sufflope | counter? |
| 18:49.17 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 6 days 05:10:45 (13.216 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, 2 weeks (137.716 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1065;191) |
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| 19:06.32 | Elrond | koen - Did you get any further with the gps? |
| 19:06.48 | koen | nope |
| 19:07.56 | *** join/#openmoko kpanic (n=kpanic@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/kpanic) |
| 19:08.34 | Elrond | This thing starts to feel a bit borked. |
| 19:09.14 | roh | the gps ;) hahaaa |
| 19:11.11 | koen | if anyone has suggestions on what command to run.... |
| 19:11.49 | koen | commands* |
| 19:14.51 | *** part/#openmoko kpanic (n=kpanic@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/kpanic) |
| 19:15.52 | k-s | koen: did you see that rasterman announced his new software_16 engine for evas? |
| 19:16.17 | k-s | koen: unfortunately it didn't run as fast as we want, at least on n800... |
| 19:16.32 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Community_Events]] |
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| 19:17.04 | k-s | koen: our tests showed it sould improve it a lot, more than 50%... but after integrating into the platform it was no more than 10% in most cases |
| 19:17.21 | koen | k-s: still 10% |
| 19:17.25 | k-s | koen: so now we have to figure out where we're wasting time |
| 19:18.19 | k-s | koen: and until we know it, he'll probably won't touch the 16bpp code... he really love the 32bpp... damn, it's highly optimized |
| 19:19.15 | k-s | koen: and I have 2 python bindings ready: evas and ecore (ecore.evas too)... I'm hoping to have edje done today |
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| 19:19.54 | koen | k-s: I read your mails on the bindings |
| 19:20.19 | k-s | :-) |
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| 20:19.23 | chihchun | anyone who is in Taiwan ? |
| 20:19.36 | chihchun | we will have a meeting next Tuesday |
| 20:19.49 | chihchun | Sean Moss-Pultz and Harald Welte will give a talk on openmoko |
| 20:20.13 | chihchun | people who is interesting to join us, please visit the link http://wiki.tossug.org/SignUp%3a2007-05 |
| 20:26.24 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe29dd00-231.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:38.57 | yacc | Just wondering, why the Neo won't have WAP nor MMS? |
| 20:39.26 | Rince | WAP is just the thing of the browser, but why mms? |
| 20:39.29 | koen | who needs wap if you can have the real internet |
| 20:39.40 | Rince | *nod* |
| 20:39.42 | CoreDump|home | indeed |
| 20:40.09 | yacc | koen: E.g. mobile ticketing systems, say the German Railways? |
| 20:40.27 | Rince | yacc: there you can use pdf too |
| 20:40.45 | Rince | fetch the pdf, show the 2d-barcode with that |
| 20:40.47 | yacc | Rince: Well, for the PDF you need to print it. |
| 20:40.52 | Rince | nmp |
| 20:40.55 | Rince | no |
| 20:41.01 | Rince | the pdf also contains the 2d-barcode |
| 20:41.04 | yacc | Rince: I carry a mobile, but no printer on my body. |
| 20:41.08 | Rince | you just zoom to the barcode |
| 20:41.19 | zod | Rince: but the pdf says that you have to print it |
| 20:41.52 | Rince | zod: they don't expect mobiles with a pdf-reader ;) |
| 20:42.03 | Rince | you could ask one of these guys to scan your mobile in general wether it works or not, but it shouldn't be a problem |
| 20:42.04 | yacc | Rince: Well, they explicitly tell you so that the PDF is invalid if displayed on a display. |
| 20:42.43 | Rince | well - I already did it once and they accepted it |
| 20:43.35 | yacc | Rince: And MMS is a standard feature, and people expect you to be able to view it. |
| 20:43.45 | TimRiker | how does the wap version work? no barcode there. |
| 20:44.00 | zod | TimRiker: there is a 2d Barcode |
| 20:44.04 | yacc | TimRiker: It sends an MMS at the end of the transaction. |
| 20:44.18 | TimRiker | in the WAP? so they want the barcode on the display there? |
| 20:44.20 | Rince | yacc: well - I never needed mms except for that railway-thingie, bjut there I prefer original tickets or the printed pdf |
| 20:44.32 | minime | yacc, well if someone gets operamini running then you can use wap pages too |
| 20:44.41 | minime | or any other browser that can wap |
| 20:44.59 | minime | i think theres a thunderbird fork for pdas |
| 20:45.08 | minime | that 'd do too |
| 20:45.13 | TimRiker | might be some wap->html gateways around that would work. |
| 20:45.15 | Rince | and if you need mms then program something to accept them ;) |
| 20:45.17 | yacc | minime: Not really, because Harald also claimed that it's of no importance to support different networks (WAP APN != Internet APN) ;) |
| 20:45.30 | TimRiker | if they are open source, you could run the gateway on the phone itself. :) |
| 20:46.10 | yacc | Openmoko won't support multiple concurrent network connections ;) |
| 20:46.33 | minime | yeah but i reckon most of the internet service-whatever-wap-sites don't care about your apn |
| 20:46.35 | yacc | So when accessing the WAP APN, it will drop the Internet connection ;) |
| 20:46.53 | yacc | minime: Only if you use the pay services of a given network operator I guess. |
| 20:46.54 | TimRiker | ouch. that's all I have is a WAP APN. |
| 20:47.11 | minime | yacc, just whjat i wanted to say right now ;) |
| 20:47.47 | yacc | Basically, some useful services are hidden inside the WAP APNs, in the private walled gardens of the network operators. |
| 20:48.05 | minime | wap.bahn.de works for me in my opera too, i just don't know whether i'd be able to purchase tickets |
| 20:48.43 | minime | ... as e.g. accessing your email without entering your account name&pw |
| 20:49.08 | yacc | minime: bahn.de is an external site, so it will work via the Internet probably, but some services are provided inside these walled garden. |
| 20:49.09 | minime | your mobile service-provider-email of course... |
| 20:49.48 | minime | yacc, yeah, but just as you mentioned - mostly commercial jamba-ringtone-crap. i suppose? |
| 20:50.59 | yacc | minime: And payment services. E.g. pay your cola can via your mobile and stuff. |
| 20:51.01 | yacc | The point is that service providers assume that any users that wants to use it can use WAP/MMS. |
| 20:51.02 | mjr | yacc, on the MMS, they want to concentrate on proper internet messaging. They have indicated that if somebody does MMS support, they'll be happy ;] |
| 20:51.11 | mjr | around here payment services work via SMS generally |
| 20:51.37 | mjr | but I suppose it may vary |
| 20:51.55 | yacc | The only phones that don't do WAP/MMS are simple phones for simple people that want just to talk via their phones (e.g. my father-in-law). |
| 20:52.20 | mjr | is that an argument? |
| 20:52.40 | yacc | mjr: the point is, that this varies from country to country, from network to network. The designers of such services just assume these services to be available. |
| 20:52.41 | minime | apropos mms: i remember some statistics about half a year ago that said that about 1/10(or 1/5)th of all mms in germany contains malware :) |
| 20:53.35 | *** join/#openmoko filippo (n=filippo@host98-145-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:53.48 | filippo | counter |
| 20:53.49 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: a week, 6 days 03:06:13 (13.129 +-3.5 days) (1066;191) |
| 20:54.37 | minime | may 10th is for phase 1, not phase 1.5, right? |
| 20:54.48 | mjr | minime, correct |
| 20:55.15 | minime | ;( |
| 20:55.22 | yacc | mjr: So I'd consider it highly embarrasing if my dad came to me, and asked me how he can use that cool new mobile ticketing system (or whatever is currently advertised) on his new smartphone phone I recommended, ... |
| 20:55.36 | minime | hehe |
| 20:55.50 | minime | tell him its too sophisticated |
| 20:56.12 | mjr | tell him to use the provider's internet ticketing system ;] |
| 20:56.47 | yacc | mjr: It's the Linux problem again. It does not work with all "expected" media. With general desktop software, I cannot make his Linux PC make play ".EXE" content. But why does a Linux phone need to ignore known (if slightly uninteresting) and documented standards? |
| 20:57.02 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't. |
| 20:57.07 | mjr | anyway, adding wap browsing or MMS shouldn't be a huge task if one is interested, though not a small one certainly either. |
| 20:57.11 | SpeedEvil | There is simply a limited development effort. |
| 20:57.20 | SpeedEvil | And it's focussed on some things. |
| 20:57.22 | mjr | yeah |
| 20:57.29 | SpeedEvil | Same with any feature. |
| 20:57.35 | yacc | mjr: Again, Harald already ruled that it's not relevant to support multiple network connections (like to the MMS/WAP apns), ... |
| 20:58.06 | mjr | so give him a clean patch and change his mind ;] |
| 20:58.14 | yacc | mjr: so it will not be a trivial task, because the MMS app will have to do all the heavy lifting so that it can access the MMS APN without disturbing anything. |
| 20:58.18 | SpeedEvil | If you want a frogger game on openmoko, there is no especial reason why it can't happen, just supply source. |
| 20:58.31 | yacc | mjr: Don't think so, I need to feed my family :( |
| 20:59.07 | yacc | SpeedEvil: But if you want something that needs lowlevel support, than it will be more painful. |
| 20:59.38 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 20:59.40 | yacc | SpeedEvil: That's what I'm trying to communicate. Mobile phones are on multiple IP networks at the same time. |
| 20:59.50 | SpeedEvil | And non-IP networks |
| 21:00.38 | SpeedEvil | No time to work on openmoko - trying to work out how to get my car going again. |
| 21:00.47 | SpeedEvil | Which may involve replacing the ECU with a DIY one. |
| 21:01.31 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 21:01.40 | yacc | ECU? |
| 21:01.43 | mjr | sounds like a bit less severe stance than you painted it |
| 21:01.46 | SpeedEvil | Engine Control Unit. |
| 21:01.55 | SuN | Tunnel vision if you ask me. But I'm sure someone will implement MMS eventually. |
| 21:02.27 | SpeedEvil | Basically, I'm ripping out all of the non-functional electronics (that have the immobiliser trigggered for some reason) and replacing them with a home-rolled one. |
| 21:03.32 | yacc | mjr: Yeah, not on the requirement list, and we won't have resources in the next 6 months anyway, ... |
| 21:03.48 | yacc | Well, 6 months => that's after the massmarket launch. |
| 21:05.11 | mjr | true, still not the same as Word of God stating that we shall not have multi-apn/WAP/MMS |
| 21:06.29 | SpeedEvil | It depends on how much the dev program is taken up. |
| 21:06.37 | SpeedEvil | If they get stuff shipping... |
| 21:06.53 | SpeedEvil | And a thousand or two units out to interested devs... |
| 21:07.15 | mjr | I mean, from your wording, I was a bit worried that Harald might actually be opposed to the idea of adding support for these for some reason, but luckily your description was a tad biased |
| 21:07.45 | SuN | Clearly out of all of those, someone will try something. |
| 21:07.45 | mjr | SuN, probably |
| 21:07.48 | mjr | of course, easy for me to dismiss the issue as I have absolutely no use for WAP or MMS :] |
| 21:08.16 | SpeedEvil | If the screens remain a problem for a couple of months... |
| 21:08.41 | SuN | The funny thing is, my uncle, not tech-savvy at all, is the only person I know of that uses MMS. I've never used it, but I can imagine it |
| 21:08.48 | SuN | s nice to send someone a picture or something. |
| 21:09.09 | SuN | But data costs + base costs for an MMS (about 0.50 eur I think) are rather prohibitive. |
| 21:09.12 | mjr | in my world, that's what the internet is for :) |
| 21:09.14 | SuN | Makes more sense to just email it. |
| 21:09.37 | SuN | Sadly, not a lot of people have email setup on their phone yet. |
| 21:10.33 | SuN | I'm still thinking about a solution, I'd like my Maildir mail available as IMAP or just new messages as pop, without interfering with my desktop email app. |
| 21:10.39 | mjr | (oh, of course there's also bluetooth when you happen to be in proximity) |
| 21:11.00 | SuN | Yeah, that I use regularly. But it's a different thing. |
| 21:11.10 | mjr | yes, yes it is |
| 21:11.11 | SuN | For instance, my uncle would use MMS to send pictures of his home in Spain. |
| 21:12.16 | SpeedEvil | Does the touchscreen work on the ffmpeg player? |
| 21:12.16 | SpeedEvil | Or can't you touch it? |
| 21:12.32 | SuN | Bluetooth isn't very fast for 6MB clips, unfortunately :) |
| 21:12.32 | SuN | It is somewhat like.. Napster. |
| 21:12.32 | SuN | In the old ISDN days. |
| 21:12.57 | SuN | I don't know, I'm only using it to convert the format. |
| 21:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@168-103-68-55.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 21:14.26 | SuN | (trying to get something to play on Realplayer *shudder* on an EZX phone) |
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| 21:18.30 | yacc | mjr: biased? Well, the point is it's an infrastructure "problem", that was declared not relevant till the phone ships, ... |
| 21:19.20 | yacc | mjr: well biased. But mostly because I see how relevant that kind of support is, from using my Communicator, day in day out. |
| 21:22.28 | SuN | Weird. No sound on my MC Hammer clip, even though it's mp3 :) |
| 21:22.47 | SuN | No hammer time :/ |
| 21:22.49 | MacNorth | could touch that |
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| 21:33.11 | abraxa_ | MacNorth: Perfect response ;D |
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| 21:36.02 | SuN | MC Hammer is really an icon. Too bad he's not popular anymore. |
| 21:39.31 | MacNorth | :^) |
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| 22:10.23 | pjz | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:10.35 | pjz | SuN: I hatehatehate Moto's windows-based tools |
| 22:14.35 | SuN | Not really, although *some* parts can be flashed by tricking the kernel flash driver into rw, after which you can simply dd stuff to it in the right format. |
| 22:14.42 | SuN | It's called "flashkit" I think. |
| 22:15.37 | SuN | The newer phones use RSDLite instead of that other program of which I forgot the name, but it's not necessarily better, I haven't tried it yet though. |
| 22:22.02 | pjz | I've got an oldish A780 somewhere, but I put some bad version of firmware on it so it's mostly unusable right now |
| 22:22.13 | SuN | Can't be fixed? |
| 22:22.23 | SuN | The A780 is... quirky, from what I've heard. |
| 22:22.38 | pjz | seems to be |
| 22:22.39 | SuN | The E680i firmware is much better, the E6 firmware is yet a step better. |
| 22:23.18 | pjz | so anyway, I'm hoping for you openezx guys to get a working open system that I can install on it so I can ignore Moto's stupid firmware |
| 22:23.29 | pjz | not in a hurry or anything though |
| 22:23.36 | pjz | just kind of "oh, someday that might work" |
| 22:23.51 | SuN | I'm quite happy with it as a daily phone, it sucks not to have any possibility of installing linux software. |
| 22:23.56 | SuN | Besides the nasty hacls. |
| 22:24.02 | pjz | yeah, some nasty hacks |
| 22:24.10 | SuN | Hacks, yes. |
| 22:24.12 | SuN | :) |
| 22:24.57 | SuN | Well, I was hoping for openezx to run on my E680, but I've had it for 2 years and it's still not really usable. |
| 22:25.20 | SuN | I bought the E6 because I find the original firmware pretty solid, even compared to Symbian and Windows Mobile. |
| 22:25.25 | pjz | .nod |
| 22:25.46 | SuN | Even if it's probably not a very proper implementation, technically. But it just works (tm) and it has some nice touches. |
| 22:25.49 | pjz | yeah, mine was pretty solid until I tried to upgrade to a version that had all the extras enabled |
| 22:26.08 | pjz | and then I found that I couldn't manage to downgrade for some reason |
| 22:26.29 | SuN | Weird |
| 22:27.29 | SuN | Success! Hammer time, baby! |
| 22:28.59 | SuN | Haha, Hammer is the man. |
| 22:30.22 | SuN | Really, I wish I could dance like that. Even if it's that really cheesy 80's hiphop style. |
| 22:33.27 | SuN | :) |
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| 23:38.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1892 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/unsolicited.c: make CLIP/COLP numbers zero-terminated (Closes: #525) |
| 23:41.32 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Please report problems with projects.openmoko.org |
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