| 00:05.33 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@85-211-173-18.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:13.17 | Moo^ | how dependencies are defined in oe? openmoko-panel-battery build is failing and it has been stated that it is due to missing apmd dependency |
| 00:13.23 | Moo^ | i'd like to fix this for my local build |
| 00:18.21 | yacc | Moo^: Just update it, Mickey fixed it already. |
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| 00:32.18 | CoreDump|home | is anyone here running an image from the OM buildhost and could pastebin their /etc/ipkg/*feed.conf? |
| 00:34.01 | CoreDump|home | nm, got it |
| 00:35.15 | rwhitby | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/rootfs/etc/ipkg/ |
| 00:35.27 | rwhitby | (for others looking for stuff from official builds) |
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| 00:40.01 | CoreDump|home | FYI, the the feed.conf isn't working in any case ;) |
| 00:43.40 | CoreDump|home | http://rafb.net/p/rtLwCz26.html <- fixed feeds |
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| 01:34.16 | Readon | ../setup-env ;bitbake openmoko-devel-image |
| 01:34.17 | Readon | NOTE: Not using a cache. Set CACHE = <directory> to enable. |
| 01:34.27 | Readon | strange problem |
| 01:38.45 | rwhitby | Readon: source ../setup-env |
| 01:38.56 | rwhitby | or . ../setup-env |
| 01:39.14 | rwhitby | it needs to affect the current environment, not that of a sub-shell. |
| 01:39.44 | rwhitby | Readon: where are the incorrect instructions, so I can fix them? |
| 01:40.00 | Readon | i got it |
| 01:40.11 | Readon | . ../setup-env could work |
| 01:40.53 | Readon | which file does CACHE directory is assigned? |
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| 01:52.10 | rwhitby | that's a red herring cause by the other variables not being set |
| 01:52.17 | rwhitby | where is the incorrect information you were following? |
| 01:52.35 | pjz | is there a way to get a qemu instance on-net? |
| 01:53.33 | Readon | the problem was solved, i am just interest about that. |
| 01:55.44 | pjz | wow, doing an update was apparently a bad idea; I'm getting brokenness about /home/pj/moko/qemu/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c:24:32: linux/usb_gadgetfs.h: No such file or directory |
| 01:56.32 | rwhitby | Readon: you still haven't said where the incorrect information was that you were following ... we need to fix it before others have the same problem. |
| 01:57.17 | rwhitby | pjz: mokomakefile qemu target? |
| 01:57.22 | pjz | rwhitby: yup |
| 01:57.32 | pjz | rwhitby: well, build-qemu, but yeah |
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| 01:58.24 | rwhitby | yep, same here. |
| 01:58.51 | rwhitby | I need to add that to my autobuild list |
| 01:58.57 | pjz | I should set up CruiseControl using MokoMakefile and ... |
| 01:59.02 | pjz | heh |
| 01:59.11 | pjz | I see you already have :) |
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| 01:59.25 | rwhitby | what's CruiseControl? |
| 01:59.38 | pjz | continuous-build tool |
| 01:59.50 | Readon | rwhitby, it is my fault, it's not a bug. i use ../setup-env but . ../setup-env. it's the point |
| 02:00.10 | pjz | rwhitby: usually used for java projects |
| 02:00.20 | rwhitby | Readon: ok, we need to highlight that in the doco then |
| 02:00.39 | rwhitby | pjz: I just have a Makefile in my home directory, that makes all the projects that I work on. |
| 02:00.47 | pjz | rwhitby: http://cruisecontrol.sf.net |
| 02:01.11 | pjz | rwhitby: you set it up and it monitors your scm and does a rebuild if it changes and emails you if the build fails |
| 02:01.22 | rwhitby | ah, I'll just add build-qemu to the all target in MokoMakefile |
| 02:01.53 | pjz | rwhitby: also has a web status page and logs the failure to a file so you can peer at it later and etc |
| 02:02.00 | pjz | rwhitby: we use it at work, it's quite nice |
| 02:02.31 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r92 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added build-qemu to 'all' target. |
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| 02:04.17 | pjz | rwhitby: is it possible to do builds with two different build/conf/local.conf files in the same tree safely? or will they step on each other? |
| 02:04.49 | rwhitby | pjz: I believe it should be fine, if you are only changing MACHINE |
| 02:05.08 | rwhitby | (due to OE's multimachine support) |
| 02:05.32 | pjz | rwhitby: yeah, I'm mainly hoping to save update/download time |
| 02:05.48 | pjz | rwhitby: well, and disk space :) |
| 02:06.29 | rwhitby | pjz: update and downloads would be shared. disk space is better saved using rm_work |
| 02:08.05 | rwhitby | which reminds me, I should do an x86 build now that the battery bug has been fixed |
| 02:08.15 | Readon | rwhitby, do you know which viariable set CACHE directory? |
| 02:08.22 | pjz | rwhitby: and build-qemu and openmoko-devel-image can definitely exist in the same dir? |
| 02:08.41 | rwhitby | Readon: not off the top of my head. |
| 02:08.55 | rwhitby | pjz: build-qemu happens in a separate subdir of build |
| 02:09.33 | pjz | rwhitby: right, I was thinking of flash-qemu-local |
| 02:09.54 | pjz | rwhitby: which, for all I know actually calls openmoko-devel-image itself |
| 02:10.38 | pjz | okay, nevermind, I actually bothered to read the Makefile :) |
| 02:12.05 | Readon | rwhitby, i find it myself, thanks |
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| 02:13.15 | DukeOfURL | rwhitby: I've been away for a few days. Has anyone had success on an x86_64 development host? |
| 02:14.40 | rwhitby | DukeOfURL: I've been away for 10 days, so I dunno. |
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| 02:24.47 | pjz | rwhitby: do any targets overwrite build/conf/local.conf? |
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| 02:26.29 | rwhitby | pjz: no, once it's setup, it's under the user's control only |
| 02:26.40 | rwhitby | that's a key point |
| 02:27.06 | pjz | rwhitby: I was just trying to figure out the best way to add a pc/neo switch into MokoMakefile |
| 02:28.12 | pjz | rwhitby: so 'make setup' doesn't overwrite it? |
| 02:31.03 | rwhitby | pjz: not if it already exists. see the setup-config target. |
| 02:32.26 | rwhitby | pjz: yeah, I'm wondering how to do that to be able to build both. I'll need to ask koen how he does his multimachine builds. |
| 02:32.45 | rwhitby | I suspect you leave MACHINE out of local.conf and then provide it on the bitbake command line |
| 02:33.02 | pjz | rwhitby: oh, I was just thinking of a 'switch' that would put the right thing in local.conf |
| 02:33.19 | pjz | rwhitby: using sed or something |
| 02:34.42 | pjz | rwhitby: so 'make setup-pc ; make openmoko-devel-image' would build you a pc version and 'make setup-neo ; make openmoko-devel-image' would build you neo software |
| 02:34.59 | rwhitby | yeah, something like that could be done |
| 02:38.43 | rwhitby | setup-machine-* which sets MACHINE=<value provided> |
| 02:39.50 | pjz | rwhitby: want the diff? :) |
| 02:40.30 | rwhitby | I'm thinking of a pattern rule, which can be extended automatically when new devices are added. |
| 02:40.46 | rwhitby | pastebin the diff anyway |
| 02:41.05 | pjz | rwhitby: oh, good idea |
| 02:42.04 | pjz | http://www.pastebin.ca/462154 |
| 02:43.15 | rwhitby | pjz: nah, that changes the order and surprises the user. |
| 02:43.37 | rwhitby | sed -i |
| 02:43.44 | pjz | oh, so swap the order :) |
| 02:44.10 | rwhitby | ah, but the user may put something before MACHINE ... |
| 02:44.11 | pjz | I didn't feel like constructing the right regexp to get rid of ^MACHINE=.* |
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| 02:44.27 | pjz | good point |
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| 02:49.51 | rwhitby | pjz: http://www.pastebin.ca/462163 |
| 02:52.42 | pjz | http://www.pastebin.ca/462165 |
| 02:52.44 | pjz | heh, I lose |
| 02:53.11 | rwhitby | never duel me on Makefiles ... |
| 02:53.36 | rwhitby | I'll add a setup-machine-neo convenience target too, which will track the latest neo released. |
| 02:54.28 | pjz | ooh, yours is pretty |
| 02:55.54 | pjz | you assume they don't change the spacing around the =, which I guess is fine. I just replaced lines that started with MACHINE. Probably should have made that 'MACHINE[= ]' |
| 02:56.16 | pjz | I don't know how flexible the local.conf file is |
| 03:00.03 | rwhitby | yeah, I was going to work out how to do variable whitespace in sed |
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| 03:01.52 | pjz | looks like it's just s/foo \+/foo/; |
| 03:03.52 | pjz | \+ is one-or-more, and there's no whitespace convenience char so if you want spaces-or-tabs you have to do [ \t]\+ |
| 03:07.32 | rwhitby | http://www.pastebin.ca/462179 |
| 03:08.24 | rwhitby | people can also use this for make setup-machine-qemuarm too |
| 03:09.33 | rwhitby | (I'll take out the pattern rule restriction) |
| 03:10.54 | pjz | looks cool |
| 03:10.57 | pjz | yeah, I was wondering about that |
| 03:11.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r93 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added setup-machine-* targets to support switching builds for different MACHINE values |
| 03:13.29 | pjz | woo, cool |
| 03:13.41 | pjz | I can get rid of my metamakefile that does that now :) |
| 03:13.53 | pjz | I had a MetaMokoMakefile :) |
| 03:16.13 | rwhitby | pjz: thx for the original idea. |
| 03:17.27 | rwhitby | 3030 unique IP downloads of MokoMakefile |
| 03:19.13 | pjz | rwhitby: np, happy to help |
| 03:19.33 | rwhitby | heh - 499 IP addresses that have downloaded more than once. |
| 03:20.16 | rwhitby | 121 more than twice |
| 03:21.38 | rwhitby | I wonder how many people have downloaded more than once, but have a changing IP address ... |
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| 03:25.32 | pjz | I dunno, I let my router handle getting my IP from the cableco :) |
| 03:26.21 | pjz | wow, it was unhappy when I moved the directory it was in |
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| 04:56.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hammerhead_protocol]] |
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| 05:08.32 | bhima | counter |
| 05:08.33 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 18:51:27 (16.786 +-3.5 days) (1035;184) |
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| 06:33.00 | simon_ | counter? |
| 06:33.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; 2 weeks, 2 days 17:26:59 (16.727 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, 2 weeks, 4 days (141.227 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1036;184) |
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| 06:56.10 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] |
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| 07:07.27 | i386 | hey what happened to those folks doing moko on ipaq's? |
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| 07:11.19 | koen | rwhitby: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/talks/ELC2007.pdf , slide 6 thru 10 |
| 07:11.24 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:15.54 | koen | hey Hopscotch |
| 07:26.38 | Sup3rkiddo | how do i get the shell on the qemu build...nothing happens when i click "Terminal" from the Menu |
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| 07:49.57 | Readon | how to get which dir does the stamps would be in? for example linux-xxx.do_fetch |
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| 08:41.49 | Elrond | Is it me, or is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges and http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Special:Recentchanges&limit=25&feed=rss desync'd ? |
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| 08:55.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973/de]] |
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| 09:20.32 | yacc | That's incredible, mtn db regenerate_caches is running now for over 12hours :( |
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| 09:34.46 | GoGi | What u-boot sources do the patches apply to? |
| 09:38.39 | falls_huang | --> /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/ |
| 09:39.00 | falls_huang | GoGi, take a look at here |
| 09:39.11 | GoGi | aha |
| 09:39.33 | GoGi | does the MokoMakefile build it? |
| 09:39.54 | falls_huang | I don't use MokoMakefile |
| 09:39.59 | falls_huang | OE will build it |
| 09:40.15 | GoGi | ah ok |
| 09:40.24 | falls_huang | maybe MokoMakefile will build it , I will try it later :) |
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| 09:52.47 | GoGi | is it normal that "mtn checkout" runs for hours? |
| 09:54.24 | GoGi | or pull |
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| 09:59.26 | yacc | GoGi: yes. |
| 09:59.45 | GoGi | argh |
| 09:59.53 | yacc | GoGi: my db reconstruct_caches runs over 12 hours now, and it's basically the same work that mtn pull does. |
| 10:00.22 | GoGi | isn |
| 10:00.27 | GoGi | isn't that a problem |
| 10:00.32 | GoGi | ? |
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| 10:41.35 | daxxar | counter? |
| 10:41.36 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; 2 weeks, 2 days 13:18:24 (16.554 +-3.5 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-13); 4 months, 2 weeks, 4 days (141.054 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (1037;184) |
| 10:41.57 | daxxar | :-| |
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| 10:53.26 | yacc | GoGi: No => you need to mtn pull really really seldom. |
| 10:53.33 | GoGi | ok |
| 10:53.45 | Nebukadneza | hi |
| 10:54.09 | Moo^^ | does openmoko have trac? |
| 10:54.21 | rwhitby | no. bugzilla. |
| 10:54.30 | Moo^^ | ah. there is is. |
| 10:54.46 | Moo^^ | my old eyes are failing me |
| 10:55.10 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FIC/de]] [[Hammerhead_protocol]] [[Press_Coverage]] |
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| 11:35.27 | Moo^^ | has anyone done x86 build lately? |
| 11:35.31 | Moo^^ | libelf seems to be failing |
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| 11:46.45 | abraxa_ | Moo^^: What error? |
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| 11:50.54 | Moo^^ | found the solution: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=264 |
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| 11:53.24 | abraxa_ | Ah okay |
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| 11:55.05 | tgr_ | hi, which is better to build openmoko? scratbox or open embedded? |
| 11:55.06 | aloril | tgr_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:57.25 | rwhitby | tgr_: only supported way is OpenEmbedded. What made you think you could use scratchbox? |
| 11:57.46 | rwhitby | (sure you could build a toolchain, but the distro is much more than just a toolchain) |
| 11:59.15 | tgr_ | If I compile a single package, perhaps it's better to use scratch. |
| 12:00.38 | tgr_ | I'm new to the both, I fine OE is a little complicat |
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| 12:27.39 | yacc | tgr_: yes it's complicated, but to be truthful, it's still nicer than some other buildenvironments, ... |
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| 12:35.48 | woglinde | counter |
| 12:35.48 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 11:24:11 (16.475 +-3.5 days) (1038;184) |
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| 12:42.49 | Nebukadneza | woglinde: :/ |
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| 12:56.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FIC/de]] |
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| 13:05.26 | Moo^^ | dear lord |
| 13:05.29 | Moo^^ | i got xoo running |
| 13:05.31 | Moo^^ | !!! |
| 13:05.38 | woglinde | wow |
| 13:06.21 | Moo^^ | it really does't work. all panels and fonts are missing. but it runs. |
| 13:06.38 | Moo^^ | maybe I have earned a two days worth of may day holiday |
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| 13:33.31 | yacc | Just wondering, the MokoMakefile builds OpenMoko for IA32 (host) or for the Neo? |
| 13:36.40 | abraxa_ | yacc: Both, you can decide |
| 13:36.58 | yacc | abraxa_: how do I decide? |
| 13:37.11 | yacc | Guess build-img or so does the Neo build, right? |
| 13:38.19 | yacc | abraxa_: the Wiki doesn't document more targets it seems. |
| 13:38.29 | abraxa_ | The MACHINE variable in build/conf/local.conf: x86, fic-gta01 is the Neo |
| 13:38.40 | abraxa_ | x86 is host, I mean |
| 13:38.55 | abraxa_ | Then just build openmoko-devel-image as usual |
| 13:40.20 | yacc | abraxa_: do I need to run some clean-target after changing MACHINE? |
| 13:42.29 | abraxa_ | I don't know of any particular make target for that but I'm quite confident that a "rm -rf build/tmp" does the trick |
| 13:43.09 | abraxa_ | Maybe a "make setup" is in order after that but I never tried so I don't know |
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| 13:46.17 | Magon | balrog-kun: hi, are you there? |
| 13:47.02 | balrog-kun | Magon: hi, yep |
| 13:47.36 | balrog-kun | what's up? |
| 13:47.44 | Magon | balrog-kun: i have a slight problem with your qemu |
| 13:47.55 | Magon | it cannot find linux headers |
| 13:48.08 | Magon | building with makefile from openmoko tree |
| 13:48.33 | balrog-kun | Magon: which header for example? on gentoo? |
| 13:48.39 | Magon | and btw: do you still have photos from prague from towers ? I would like to get some |
| 13:48.43 | Magon | on gentoo |
| 13:48.53 | Magon | /opt/openembedded/tree/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/usb-linux-gadget.c:24:32: error: linux/usb_gadgetfs.h: No such file or directory |
| 13:48.58 | balrog-kun | strange, gentoo should have all the headers |
| 13:48.59 | balrog-kun | oh |
| 13:49.05 | Magon | i have it |
| 13:49.14 | Magon | just no -I mentionted |
| 13:49.23 | balrog-kun | maybe i should make gadgetfs optional, |
| 13:49.47 | balrog-kun | older kernels didn't have this file i think, i had to copy it manually on my computer, too |
| 13:49.50 | yacc | Just wondering, the bitbake on subsequent calls won't take that long? |
| 13:50.07 | Magon | i have it in my kernel..but i dont know which kernel it takes |
| 13:50.49 | balrog-kun | /usr/include/linux should theoretically be in sync with the kernel that is running |
| 13:50.57 | balrog-kun | but it is never in sync on any distribution |
| 13:51.42 | balrog-kun | i'm gonna make ./configure autodetect gadgetfs support |
| 13:52.20 | Magon | problem is that i have /usr/src/linux/include/linux/usb-gadgetfs.h |
| 13:52.21 | balrog-kun | Magon: i can post the pictures to ftp at the moment, but they are still not reoutched and segregated :/ |
| 13:53.10 | balrog-kun | /usr/src/linux/include/linux/ should be same contents as /usr/include/linux, but it is never the same |
| 13:53.20 | balrog-kun | you can just copy it over |
| 13:54.12 | Magon | balrog-kun: can you try to pack it? i dont want to drain your outbound traffic limit |
| 13:54.19 | Magon | balrog-kun: ok..will just copy it |
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| 13:55.05 | balrog-kun | i don't have limits (i think), just a slow connection, i'm gonna put them on the ftp and tell you the numbers |
| 13:55.35 | balrog-kun | btw i passed through prague last week (just entered and left at 110 km/h) |
| 13:56.21 | Magon | balrog-kun: where were you going? |
| 13:56.44 | Magon | updating linux-headers |
| 13:57.24 | balrog-kun | i was coming back from easter in italy, retouching the pictures now :) |
| 13:57.33 | Magon | balrog-kun: thx |
| 13:57.40 | Magon | nice holiday probably |
| 14:01.02 | balrog-kun | try ftp://83.31.85.212/ , numbers 1502 to 1523 are from that tower |
| 14:01.39 | balrog-kun | you're on one of them, heh |
| 14:01.54 | Magon | thx |
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| 14:03.09 | Magon | /opt/openembedded/tree/openmoko/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/target-arm/op.c:1374: error: unable to find a register to spill in class 'GENERAL_REGS' |
| 14:04.20 | balrog-kun | are you sure you're using gcc 3.x and don't have "-march=athlon something" in you CFLAGS? |
| 14:05.18 | Magon | ok..checking |
| 14:05.55 | Magon | ok..it says gcc32 |
| 14:07.18 | balrog-kun | people posted tips here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU |
| 14:07.28 | Magon | ok |
| 14:07.34 | Magon | thx |
| 14:07.44 | balrog-kun | np |
| 14:11.59 | Magon | ok...it was gcc4 |
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| 14:13.05 | Magon | going to try official image and than my :-) |
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| 14:28.41 | Magon | balrog-kun: i have the photos..thx much |
| 14:29.53 | yacc | Just wondering, what do I really need to build to develop apps for OpenMoko on the host? |
| 14:30.05 | woglinde | yacc a cross compiler |
| 14:30.11 | woglinde | oh ups |
| 14:30.16 | woglinde | a recent compiler |
| 14:31.11 | yacc | Yes, but I mean, I somehow wonder if compiling the OE/OM version of "file" is really needed, ... |
| 14:32.15 | balrog-kun | Magon: ok, taking them down |
| 14:33.04 | Magon | booting openmoko in qemu..great work balrog |
| 14:33.12 | balrog-kun | :) thanks |
| 14:33.39 | Magon | now just need to finish my app, get it compiled and try |
| 14:34.07 | balrog-kun | do you have screenshots? :) |
| 14:34.10 | balrog-kun | what will the app do? |
| 14:34.22 | Magon | no screenshots yet |
| 14:34.28 | Magon | or you have them already |
| 14:34.35 | balrog-kun | okay :p |
| 14:34.41 | Magon | i am refactoring finger wheel and toolbox |
| 14:35.19 | Magon | daniel want them in separate app as a service |
| 14:35.55 | balrog-kun | and what are they now? |
| 14:36.38 | Magon | library functions |
| 14:36.47 | Hopscotch | q |
| 14:37.17 | balrog-kun | Magon: ah okay, nice project |
| 14:37.32 | Magon | balrog-kun: no project...fixing bug :-) |
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| 14:51.24 | yacc | <PROTECTED> |
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| 14:54.13 | abraxa_ | yacc: It's in trunk/src/target/gsm |
| 14:56.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo]] |
| 14:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@owla-gw.cust.eunet.fi) |
| 14:56.53 | yacc | Yeah, I already found it. |
| 15:01.37 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu_ (n=sayamind@59.93.193.229) |
| 15:01.55 | Nebukadneza | hey guys |
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| 15:02.18 | Nebukadneza | any estimates when phase1 will be available? |
| 15:05.47 | madwoota | counter |
| 15:05.48 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 08:54:12 (16.371 +-3.5 days) (1039;185) |
| 15:06.10 | abraxa_ | I'd say somewhere between mid-May and early June |
| 15:06.25 | Nebukadneza | aah, okay ;P |
| 15:06.26 | Nebukadneza | thanks |
| 15:06.30 | abraxa_ | Welcome |
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| 15:23.03 | *** join/#openmoko adam_ (n=adam@c-66-229-213-213.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 15:23.22 | adam_ | why |
| 15:23.24 | adam_ | is this phone |
| 15:23.31 | adam_ | coming out 'next month' |
| 15:23.34 | adam_ | for the last 6 months? |
| 15:23.34 | aloril | adam_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:23.42 | woglinde | adam what? |
| 15:23.59 | adam_ | the developer release |
| 15:24.06 | adam_ | has been announced 'next month' since december |
| 15:24.59 | woglinde | adam read the openmoko-announce |
| 15:25.01 | woglinde | list |
| 15:25.04 | adam_ | ... |
| 15:25.30 | Clint | counter |
| 15:25.31 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 08:34:29 (16.357 +-3.5 days) (1040;185) |
| 15:26.15 | yacc | Where do I look for Xoo? |
| 15:26.17 | adam_ | thanks for the pointer. |
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| 15:27.59 | woglinde | yacc apt-cache search Xoo? |
| 15:28.28 | adam_ | wow. |
| 15:28.38 | adam_ | And then starting in June, things can run full speed. |
| 15:28.43 | adam_ | totally gonna get an iphone first. |
| 15:28.54 | adam_ | :/ |
| 15:29.03 | woglinde | hm then neo isnt something for you |
| 15:29.09 | woglinde | iphone ist totally closed |
| 15:29.13 | adam_ | yeah |
| 15:29.14 | adam_ | like um |
| 15:29.15 | adam_ | itv? |
| 15:29.16 | adam_ | lol |
| 15:29.18 | woglinde | no 3rd part aplication |
| 15:29.23 | yacc | woglinde: found it, but my display is to small for it anyway. Xnest pure for yacc ;) |
| 15:29.47 | Clint | and xoo for bison |
| 15:29.59 | yacc | adam_: like, you can operate it in just one network? |
| 15:30.12 | adam_ | ? |
| 15:30.23 | yacc | adam_: it's a mobile service contract with an expensive addon hardware. |
| 15:30.25 | adam_ | you referring to cingular? |
| 15:30.30 | yacc | adam_: yeah. |
| 15:30.30 | woglinde | iphone is cingular only |
| 15:30.36 | adam_ | i mean |
| 15:30.47 | woglinde | 500$ the cheapest |
| 15:31.01 | adam_ | all i said |
| 15:31.05 | adam_ | was im going to get an iphone first |
| 15:31.11 | yacc | adam_: if you want a nice phone, ready to use, go with a Nokia E61i for example. |
| 15:31.14 | adam_ | because theyre going to hardware delay this thing until july |
| 15:31.15 | adam_ | ;p |
| 15:31.28 | woglinde | so bye for now |
| 15:31.36 | woglinde | we are going shopping |
| 15:32.00 | adam_ | mm |
| 15:32.06 | adam_ | e61 is sybmian no? |
| 15:32.36 | adam_ | anyway |
| 15:32.44 | adam_ | its just annoying |
| 15:32.53 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@176.84-48-210.nextgentel.com) |
| 15:32.53 | adam_ | when people keep telling you your toy will be out soon |
| 15:32.59 | yacc | adam_: yes. completly loaded hardware-wise, and a S60 Symbian. |
| 15:32.59 | adam_ | and its the same soon, every time. |
| 15:33.00 | adam_ | ;p |
| 15:33.11 | yacc | adam_: you want solid hardware? |
| 15:33.21 | yacc | adam_: that's as hard it sounds, a feature. |
| 15:33.22 | adam_ | id be happy with a buggy one |
| 15:33.23 | adam_ | ;) |
| 15:33.38 | yacc | adam_: Had enough mobiles that had certain misfeatures hardware wise, ... |
| 15:33.49 | yacc | adam_: buggy hardware == you cannot fix it yourself. |
| 15:34.17 | yacc | adam_: buggy hardware == throw away your phone. |
| 15:34.22 | adam_ | humm |
| 15:34.25 | adam_ | so they didnt boot?: |
| 15:34.26 | adam_ | ;p |
| 15:34.26 | yacc | adam_: that's not let's reflash the thing. |
| 15:34.41 | yacc | adam_: no, but some parts had a high failure rates, etc. |
| 15:34.46 | adam_ | something like intermittent gprs failure |
| 15:34.48 | adam_ | thats ok |
| 15:34.50 | adam_ | its a test machine ;p |
| 15:35.06 | yacc | adam_: broken software builds are standard in the mobile world, but broken hardware is bad. |
| 15:36.00 | adam_ | well |
| 15:36.04 | adam_ | im excited still. |
| 15:36.20 | adam_ | if not a little forlorn. |
| 15:36.21 | adam_ | ;p |
| 15:36.29 | yacc | adam_: I remember my first Communicator, which crashed everytime it faxed. I hated that Nokia service person, "Well, things do crash, why do you complain?" => "you know I sell Unix based solutions, and yes, usually every 2 years our customers need to replace mice" *shudder* |
| 15:37.21 | adam_ | yeah |
| 15:37.25 | adam_ | if i get something |
| 15:37.38 | adam_ | its gonna be an 8800 |
| 15:37.42 | adam_ | by my girlfriend is strongly against me spending 1500$ on 3 phones in a 3 month period. |
| 15:37.42 | adam_ | ;p |
| 15:37.55 | yacc | The repairshop returned his 9500 as so broken that it wouldn't allow flashing, ... |
| 15:38.17 | yacc | Well, the E61 did cost me 180EUR on ebay. |
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| 15:38.55 | yacc | The Neo is $350 ~ EUR 250. That's not so bad. |
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| 15:39.56 | SpeedEvil | Indeed, compared to comparable phones. |
| 15:39.57 | yacc | That makes EUR430 for me. Painful but somehow manageable, ... |
| 15:40.06 | SpeedEvil | Not tne Nokia 1110 :) |
| 15:40.38 | SpeedEvil | I would actually be interested in a low end OM phone too. |
| 15:40.57 | SpeedEvil | 100Mhz ish processor, black and white reflective 128*128 display or so. |
| 15:41.01 | bhima_ | The Neo1973 will cost €430? That's more than I was expecting. |
| 15:41.18 | SpeedEvil | It's 350 dollars US |
| 15:41.20 | yacc | bhima_: My new Nokia E61 + the Neo will cost me ~430. |
| 15:41.22 | SpeedEvil | convert from that. |
| 15:41.33 | bhima_ | yacc: ahh, ok. |
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| 15:42.25 | yacc | For private users it will be about EUR 300. Depends slighty which VAT you'll catch. (Or where the European distributor will be located). |
| 15:44.05 | yacc | Oh, Xoo fails if there is already running something on 6001 ;) |
| 15:47.23 | yacc | Hmm, what's the right bugtracker for xoo? *wonder* |
| 15:47.52 | yacc | Oh right it has an option for specifying the display manually. |
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| 16:09.43 | aloril2 | adam_: hardware problems like: bluetooth not working, subcontractor not getting required cable, high battery drain (empty in few hours, not fixable in software), loud sidetone, 15% yield on displays |
| 16:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@87.110.198.224) |
| 16:11.16 | aloril2 | and every hardware revision (or waiting for parts do be OK) seems to be month wait or almost that long |
| 16:11.55 | aloril2 | current hardware should be OK (knock on the wood) |
| 16:12.31 | bhima | 15% yield on displays doesn't sound very good. |
| 16:12.47 | bhima | Is that based on dead pixel tolerance, or where they actually totally failing? |
| 16:13.52 | SpeedEvil | No revealed details AIUI. |
| 16:13.54 | aloril2 | bhima: no idea, I think problem has been fixed now (display problem is not by FIC, new product and no real alternatives) |
| 16:16.15 | aloril2 | without these problems (and maybe others?) it would have been January |
| 16:19.05 | Elrond | BTW: Is there any quick intro to this "mesh networking" for the olpc? And can any wlan-chip do that? |
| 16:22.11 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:22.25 | SpeedEvil | It's ideally done in firmware of the chip itself. |
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| 16:22.38 | SpeedEvil | AIUI - the 802.11s standard isn't published. |
| 16:22.57 | SpeedEvil | Which is a problem. |
| 16:23.34 | Elrond | So it's a) a non-published standard as of now b) need's special firmware support ? |
| 16:23.42 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it. |
| 16:23.48 | Ycros | I think the 802.11s guys are actually looking at what the olpc is coming up with |
| 16:24.19 | SpeedEvil | AIUI - the firmware in the marvel chip implements the protocol as 802.11s is currently specified. |
| 16:25.13 | SpeedEvil | OLPC I imagine is the vastly most deployed 802.11s prototype net. |
| 16:26.40 | Elrond | Yep. |
| 16:27.13 | Elrond | I wonder, if it would be useful (or even possible) for the neo / ar6k. |
| 16:27.30 | SpeedEvil | That's part of it - AIUI. |
| 16:28.07 | Elrond | aloril2 - That would suggest, that it can be done on the main cpu, if wanted to. |
| 16:28.44 | buz | should work |
| 16:28.58 | buz | if you want to do it as sort of WDS you might need hostap like features though |
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| 16:29.42 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@56.pool85-50-112.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 16:29.54 | buz | in an adhoc sort of way it should work on any chipset i believe |
| 16:29.56 | Mandarino | Hiz :) |
| 16:30.26 | buz | now that wifi seems to be settled i wonder about the cpu in 1.5 ;( |
| 16:36.16 | Elrond | buz - What about the guess of 244[03] ? |
| 16:36.29 | buz | thats the best guess yes |
| 16:37.02 | buz | but thats just that, a guess |
| 16:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-243-114-200.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 16:43.53 | Elrond | Well, I don't care too much for the CPU. For me battery life is more important. |
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| 16:53.15 | woglinde | re |
| 16:55.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Current_events]] |
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| 17:16.40 | cga | hi all i want to help with translation (italian) , i added my name on the wiki page , should i register to any mailing list??? will conversation about translation go on there? |
| 17:18.07 | _minime | cga, you can join the community-mailinglist, there is a regular discussion going on |
| 17:18.30 | _minime | cga, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-April/thread.html |
| 17:18.54 | *** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de) |
| 17:18.58 | cga | _minime, thanks , may i add that " you should join the community ml if you want to talk with othe4r translators" or something likely to the wiki? |
| 17:19.26 | cga | i think is an important notice for newcomers like me |
| 17:20.53 | CoreDump|home | is anyone here building OM w/ bitbake 1.8? |
| 17:21.17 | *** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host81-159-22-139.range81-159.btcentralplus.com) |
| 17:21.27 | _minime | hm, i think there was a wiki page concerning this, hang on |
| 17:22.11 | cga | _minime, ok |
| 17:22.18 | _minime | cga, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Translation |
| 17:23.10 | cga | minime_, that's exactely where i did add my name and would add the abovementioned notice |
| 17:23.18 | cga | stop changing your nick! :P |
| 17:23.31 | cga | brbr |
| 17:25.09 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 17:26.08 | minime | finally:) |
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| 17:36.18 | CoreDump|home | heh |
| 17:36.25 | CoreDump|home | the finger-wheel _does_ work |
| 17:37.00 | CoreDump|home | it's just inverted |
| 17:37.01 | cga | minime, don't you think we should have a specific ml for translators? (community would be fine for now but i think it should exist one) |
| 17:38.06 | *** join/#openmoko shenki (n=shenki@ppp46-54.lns10.adl2.internode.on.net) |
| 17:38.06 | CoreDump|home | the traffic regarding translations on the ML is rather low. A dedicated ML would be overill at this point IMO |
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| 17:41.29 | cga | CoreDump|home, well you are right but it is a good idea to keep for the future, don't you think? beside there are some contraddiction in the traslation pages on the wiki. one says "community mailing list" the other suggest the dev ml as a place for translators. that's why i proposed this idea. |
| 17:41.54 | cga | that are translation and translation howto 8in this order) |
| 17:42.11 | CoreDump|home | right |
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| 17:46.50 | cga | CoreDump|home, as i was saying to minime , we should add a notice on thee translation pages on which ml to join (i guess community for now) -- beside the low traffic could be good for creating a translation ml , just think of "porting" all the previous mail about translation once you have high traffic. |
| 17:47.22 | cga | sorry if i seem fussy but i like to be construtive |
| 17:47.47 | CoreDump|home | you should post an email w/ your thoughts on the community list |
| 17:48.08 | cga | ok |
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| 17:49.54 | cga | last but not least (and then i'll go to post it on community): think of translators that for whatever reason don't want community ml high traffic, so focusing on translators-ml would be better. |
| 17:50.31 | CoreDump|home | cga: I hear you =) |
| 17:51.08 | bhima | It's kinda funny. I have a cellphone with wifi, but I almost never use it. But I really want wifi on an OS phone, because I'll be able to customize its network behaviour enough for wifi to actually be _useful_. |
| 17:51.56 | bhima | Apparently the iPhone will actually hunt and use wifi when it's there and switch back when it's not, seamlessly. Instead of current devices that always seem to use one, or the other. |
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| 17:53.36 | CoreDump|home | this could of course be hacked into the neo as well ;) |
| 17:53.46 | bhima | Precisely! |
| 17:55.05 | CoreDump|home | neo can be made to totally and completly own all the other "smart" phones out there. All it takes is a large community |
| 17:57.07 | bhima | I hope so. But from the UI perspective, there really aren't many good open source projects. None of the UI people I know seem to be very interested in free software. |
| 17:58.11 | CoreDump|home | from an UI standpoint, neo _really_ _urgently_ _needs_ a way faster CPU and gfc acceleration :\ |
| 17:58.21 | CoreDump|home | s/gcf/gfx |
| 17:59.23 | bhima | Which UI platform would you like to see running that can't now? |
| 17:59.59 | CoreDump|home | its current gtk theme for one |
| 18:00.48 | CoreDump|home | it's dog-slow right now but looking beautyful |
| 18:02.52 | CoreDump|home | oh well, they said neo gets a CPU upgrade in P1.5 |
| 18:06.14 | balrog-kun | i hope they are rather going to optimise the software |
| 18:07.33 | balrog-kun | the CPU speed is just fine for an UI like this |
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| 18:15.02 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 18:15.02 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting around mid May. Mass market in September. |
| 18:15.07 | yacc | Furthermore the connection managed needs to understand that there are different destinations => e.g. I might have a CSD connection that dials directly a company server, which might not provide Internet at all, ... |
| 18:15.10 | Ycros | sure |
| 18:15.23 | bhima | And then I'd tell people writing apps that wanted short connections to special-case it. |
| 18:16.05 | yacc | bhima: Thats a policy questions. That strongly depends upon the price of the GPRS. I'm lucky, I can get a flatrate in Germany and Austria. |
| 18:16.08 | bhima | Is there any way you can make a specific binary behave that way? Hmm. |
| 18:16.39 | bhima | yacc: Very true. That's the policy behaviour for "I always have GPRS and sometimes wifi" :) |
| 18:16.43 | yacc | bhima: Other people might want to default to Wifi/BT, and only allow specific apps to use GPRS. |
| 18:17.19 | yacc | bhima: If you pay EUR8 per MB for GPRS, the "I always have GPRS" becomes hollow. |
| 18:17.39 | bhima | yacc: When I go to Europe, I pay ~$20 :( |
| 18:17.49 | bhima | I can get a satellite connection for less. |
| 18:17.56 | ewon | I pay .08c/kb here, it sucks |
| 18:18.13 | bhima | Here in the US I get unlimited for $20 for phones, $60 laptops. |
| 18:18.27 | yacc | Well, Symbian displays a popup asking which connection to use, for (almost) all apps, and gives the user also the option to abort the connectivity .... |
| 18:18.28 | ewon | one of the many reasons I'm moving to the US in August :) |
| 18:18.45 | Ycros | here in australia I pay AUD 2.2c/KB |
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| 18:19.08 | yacc | bhima: I can get "unlimited" GPRS for EUR10 (well, it's 250MB at UMTS speed, and AFAIK one.at is not yet throttling users at all). |
| 18:19.33 | bhima | What's the interface between my app and sockets? shared library? |
| 18:19.42 | yacc | bhima: Well, I guess you should have a function like "openmoko_bind_client_socket_ask_user(...)"? |
| 18:20.06 | yacc | The technical part is really not that hard, the IP address hopefully will be different. |
| 18:20.10 | bhima | I'd like to do this totally transparently from the app's standpoint. |
| 18:20.14 | bhima | For ease of porting. |
| 18:20.17 | yacc | Or if it is not, you've got trouble no matter what. |
| 18:20.27 | yacc | bhima: intercept connect(). |
| 18:20.48 | yacc | That's something that could be hacked with LD_PRELOAD stuff, see tsocks ;) |
| 18:20.51 | bhima | ack. I gotta run. |
| 18:21.01 | bhima | LD_PRELOAD is used on maemo to make apps prompt for connection. |
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| 18:21.27 | yacc | bhima: it's the logical point to intercept, ... |
| 18:21.34 | bhima | but maemo doesn't do multiple concurrent, and I haven't yet poked to understand how it works. |
| 18:21.54 | bhima | The "easy" way to do this is to have a VPN... |
| 18:22.32 | cga | CoreDump|home, done =) (community ml and wiki) |
| 18:22.40 | yacc | bhima: I know how it would work, I've done some work with LD_PRELOAD like that for debugging ;) |
| 18:24.09 | yacc | The problem is, what happens if you've got two VPNs that both assign you 10.0.0.1 as a IP. For that you need some additional routing massaging. (Basically you would need to use iptables to mark connection from a given port, and use source based routing based on that marks to choose the right connection). |
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| 18:26.51 | bhima|n800 | a vpn would mean no need for apps to be smart. |
| 18:28.27 | bhima|n800 | obviously not a general purpose consumer solution since you need a server |
| 18:28.50 | yacc | bhima|n800: Well, => VPNs would mean exactly that. E.g. AFAIK, all networks assign 10/8 addresses to GPRS/UMTS clients. Now the ugly part comes here. You might need to connect to multiple APNs (Internet, MMS, other special apps). |
| 18:30.21 | yacc | bhima|n800: The problem is, that you might have a VPN where you have no control over the server => E.g. I have multiple customers, who luckily are unlickely to fusion. Well, should the companies ever fusion, it would involve some NAT magic and/or a huge renumbering of IPs. 10/8 and 192.168/16 are popular choices, ... |
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| 18:31.09 | bhima|n800 | vpn to my home server, ipmasq out from there |
| 18:33.16 | bhima|n800 | just to let tcp migrate across links |
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| 18:49.20 | yacc | bhima|n800: that does not work for all cases. |
| 18:50.09 | yacc | bhima|n800: I really have cases where I need to decide on my laptop if I do work for client X or client Y at this time, because both VPNs give me a 10.0.0.x IP address, and conflicting routes, ... |
| 18:55.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation_HOWTO]] [[User:Cga]] [[Talk:Translation]] [[Wish_List]] [[Translation]] |
| 18:56.30 | bhima|n800 | oh, I get it. right. then set up two or three ip ranges at home :) |
| 19:00.30 | yacc | bhima|n800: that assumes that I've got a static IP at home. Or I need to use some dyndns stuff. Or worse, the IT dept needs to setup special server to support the users. Not really useful. => see email to openmoko-devel. |
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| 19:01.46 | yacc | bhima|n800: Furthermore, some router further downstream (at home) has no application context to decide if 10.0.2.19 is the database server of company A or the mail server of company B. The only thing that might know that would be app, .. |
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| 19:02.30 | bhima|n800^ | oops. GPRS died. |
| 19:02.47 | bhima|n800^ | I advocate for 10.rand.rand.* at work due to conflict problems. |
| 19:03.14 | bhima|n800^ | ok, driving time. |
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| 19:05.14 | *** join/#openmoko TheFool (n=newguy@c-66-229-96-180.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 19:06.08 | TheFool | So...the website says this phone is going on sale "late march or early april" Is it on sale yet? If not is there an ETA? It looks really interesting |
| 19:06.09 | aloril | TheFool: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:06.10 | pjz | I use one of the lesser-known blocks for my homenet to keep from having problems |
| 19:07.06 | TheFool | ah so september now...ok tehre goes the whole before the iphone thing... |
| 19:07.56 | woglinde | jesus what they all have with iphone |
| 19:08.26 | TheFool | it is an interesting looking unix based phone... |
| 19:09.01 | pjz | it's not really unix based |
| 19:09.01 | woglinde | yes with no 3rd party application |
| 19:09.12 | pjz | or at least, not where you can get at it |
| 19:09.16 | TheFool | If it weren't for openmoko I would be going for it |
| 19:09.37 | pjz | ick. Get an E680 or an A780 |
| 19:09.45 | pjz | and support the openezx project |
| 19:09.50 | TheFool | I wouldn't buy it the day it came out or aything, but I am sure in a few weeks time there will be a whole community writing software for it |
| 19:10.01 | TheFool | it's OS X essentially they can't keep it closed |
| 19:10.06 | pjz | TheFool: what part of 'no 3rd party apps' don't you understand? |
| 19:10.11 | *** join/#openmoko trangarfi (n=chatzill@85.103.98.162) |
| 19:10.17 | pjz | TheFool: sure they can |
| 19:11.02 | TheFool | anyways...so what are the E680 and A780? |
| 19:11.55 | pjz | TheFool: motorola phones; they run linux internally, but Moto doesn't support dev of native apps |
| 19:12.43 | pjz | TheFool: the openezx project is a project to put a fully opensource distro on them - right now there's several closed-source apps and device drivers |
| 19:13.44 | TheFool | interesting as that may be they are both truly ugly devices... |
| 19:14.17 | TheFool | and being motoralla phones the price I am sure is crazy |
| 19:14.17 | pjz | I don't think the E680 is ugly; the A780 is a bit larger, but it's got a built-in screen protector |
| 19:14.29 | TheFool | ooh didn't notice that... |
| 19:14.45 | pjz | the A780 is a flip phone with the touch screen protected by the flip |
| 19:15.03 | pjz | quarter VGA (320x240) screen |
| 19:15.21 | CoreDump|home | that's half-vga ;) |
| 19:15.39 | TheFool | so what are your thoughts on the Neo1973? |
| 19:15.48 | CoreDump|home | it rocks |
| 19:15.58 | pjz | it looks good; I'm looking forward to the hardware |
| 19:16.04 | TheFool | hehe I remember that nick from the OZ chat room :) |
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| 19:16.26 | CoreDump|home | =) |
| 19:16.52 | TheFool | ah I see openmoko uses ipkg... :) |
| 19:17.11 | CoreDump|home | it's build using OE, just like OZ |
| 19:18.09 | TheFool | now that is good to hear, makes my life easy if I get opne |
| 19:18.10 | pjz | which is the Right Thing... no re-inventing the wheel! |
| 19:18.15 | TheFool | one* |
| 19:18.33 | TheFool | how large of an SD card can I use in it? |
| 19:19.11 | CoreDump|home | I dunno about any limits, I'm using a 1Gb right now |
| 19:19.15 | yacc | TheFool: It's based on an Operating System that happens to be named after a Mach-based BSD? |
| 19:19.26 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:19.30 | woglinde | micro sd |
| 19:19.52 | TheFool | ack wait it uses micro sd? not normal SD? or are you just using an adapter? |
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| 19:20.06 | pjz | I wish there was an external (micro)SD slot |
| 19:20.30 | yacc | pjz: the problem is that you cannot avoid IP collisions sometime. OTOH, one could leave it out for a starter, that leaves still the need for a way to choose which connection to use for a given connection. |
| 19:20.54 | yacc | TheFool: MicroSD, and no, it's not hotpluggable. |
| 19:21.55 | pjz | yacc: I use 172.31/16 for my homenet; people never remember that it's also rfc1918 space |
| 19:21.55 | CoreDump|home | handling these small micro SD cards is a pain |
| 19:22.37 | pjz | CoreDump|home: if you're worried, just keep them in the case with the adapter that they come with |
| 19:22.52 | CoreDump|home | or in the phone |
| 19:22.57 | TheFool | what made them choose micro SD? I figured SD would be a lot cheaper and more standard |
| 19:22.58 | pjz | that too :) |
| 19:23.08 | CoreDump|home | I don't think I'll ever fill up the 1Gb heh |
| 19:23.18 | pjz | I'd guess physical size |
| 19:23.20 | CoreDump|home | thedaniel: size I guess |
| 19:23.44 | mjr | they figured microsd would gain ground a bit faster than it did |
| 19:23.58 | SrRaven | if the openmoko will be able to do video,Ill have at least one 2 gig card filled 24/7 |
| 19:24.02 | mjr | still, 2 gig cards are available so it's okay... |
| 19:24.22 | TheFool | anyone try to get wifi with these? I was thinking a driver for one of those SD wifi cards would have been possible, but I have never heard of a micro sd wifi card |
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| 19:26.20 | yacc | TheFool: If you want Wifi fast, your best guess is the USB port, but it's not powered, ... |
| 19:26.56 | yacc | pjz: I do remember these, but yes, I usually need to look them in the rfc ;) |
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| 19:28.56 | TheFool | hey coredumb I just looked at the OpenZaurus page. Am I reading this right? collie is going to be able to run Ångström? |
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| 19:35.08 | TheFool | um I meant CoreDump|home the coredumb thing was entirely a typo... |
| 19:35.47 | CoreDump|home | =) |
| 19:35.48 | TheFool | well considering the distance of the d and b keys...it was a mispelling not a typo... |
| 19:36.00 | CoreDump|home | I didn't check myself, but it sounds like it, yes |
| 19:36.23 | TheFool | That is welcome news considering OZ 3.5.5 never gotr released |
| 19:36.35 | CoreDump|home | indeed |
| 19:37.51 | TheFool | http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/collie/ :) |
| 19:38.05 | woglinde | oz is dead |
| 19:38.17 | woglinde | long live angstroem |
| 19:38.19 | woglinde | *g* |
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| 19:39.14 | TheFool | Now if only there were clear detailed installation instructions like the ones CoreDump|home wrote... |
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| 20:36.52 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 starting around mid May. Mass market in September. |
| 20:56.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Input_Method]] |
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| 21:32.22 | _Sticky_ | hay all |
| 21:32.50 | _Sticky_ | im having trouble getting the emulator to compile. anyone able to help? |
| 21:32.50 | aloril | Commands: counter (see estimated time until P1), counter_msg (set message for counter), faq (link to FAQ in wiki) |
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| 21:34.22 | _Sticky_ | quiet in here |
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| 21:37.12 | _Sticky_ | linux/usb_gadgetfs.h: No such file or directory |
| 21:37.22 | _Sticky_ | opps |
| 21:39.43 | balrog-kun | _Sticky_: update your kernel headers |
| 21:40.01 | _Sticky_ | hmm |
| 21:40.15 | _Sticky_ | im at 2.6.17-11 too old? |
| 21:40.23 | balrog-kun | those in /usr/include/linux, they are probably outdated |
| 21:40.43 | balrog-kun | _Sticky_: yes, on my system 2.6.18 didn't have this file |
| 21:40.50 | balrog-kun | okay, okay... i'm going to make it optional |
| 21:41.46 | ewon | counter |
| 21:41.47 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 : >= 2007-05-10 (uncertainty is a guess) P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 02:18:13 (16.096 +-3.5 days) (1041;185) |
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| 22:13.03 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1864 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (configure usb-linux-gadget.c): |
| 22:13.04 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Detect <linux/usb_gadgetfs.h> in configure. It's not present in too many |
| 22:13.04 | CIA-16 | openmoko: distros to make it a hard dependency. |
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| 22:56.09 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hammerhead_protocol]] |
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| 23:09.03 | *** join/#openmoko Richard_ (n=tgr@221.137.146.122) |
| 23:09.50 | Elrond | Did anyone of the P0 people try anything from the hammerhead_protocol page? |
| 23:09.50 | Richard_ | There're some errors when build openmoko-devel-image using openmokomake: |
| 23:09.53 | Richard_ | NOTE: package perl-native-5.8.7-r3: task do_package_write: started |
| 23:09.54 | Richard_ | NOTE: package perl-native-5.8.7-r3: task do_package_write: completed |
| 23:09.54 | Richard_ | NOTE: package perl-native-5.8.7-r3: task do_populate_staging: started |
| 23:09.54 | Richard_ | ERROR: function do_stage failed |
| 23:09.54 | Richard_ | ERROR: log data follows (/home/tgr/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/perl-native-5.8.7-r3/temp/log.do_stage.6466) |
| 23:09.55 | Richard_ | | NOTE: make -e MAKEFLAGS= install |
| 23:09.57 | Richard_ | | make[1]: Entering directory `/home/tgr/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/perl-native-5.8.7-r3/perl-5.8.7' |
| 23:10.00 | Richard_ | | make[1]: *** No rule to make target `install'. Stop. |
| 23:10.02 | Richard_ | | make[1]: Leaving directory `/home/tgr/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/perl-native-5.8.7-r3/perl-5.8.7' |
| 23:10.05 | Richard_ | | FATAL: oe_runmake failed |
| 23:10.07 | Richard_ | NOTE: Task failed: /home/tgr/openmoko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/perl-native-5.8.7-r3/temp/log.do_stage.6466 |
| 23:10.10 | Richard_ | NOTE: package perl-native-5.8.7-r3: task do_populate_staging: failed |
| 23:10.14 | Richard_ | ERROR: TaskFailed event exception, aborting |
| 23:10.16 | CoreDump|home | WTF dude |
| 23:10.16 | Richard_ | NOTE: package perl-native-5.8.7: failed |
| 23:10.18 | Richard_ | ERROR: Build of openmoko-devel-image failed |
| 23:10.20 | Richard_ | make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 |
| 23:10.30 | Elrond | Richard_ - STOP this! |
| 23:10.45 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: I couldn't get the GPS to power up |
| 23:10.52 | Richard_ | Elrond: what's wrong? |
| 23:10.52 | CoreDump|home | didn't try too long tho |
| 23:10.53 | aloril | Richard_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 23:11.04 | balrog-kun | Richard_: ever heard of pastebin? |
| 23:11.14 | Elrond | Richard_ - Use any paste service of your choice, but don't flood people with this! |
| 23:11.45 | Richard_ | oh,sorry. |
| 23:12.09 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - You need a recent kernel with the openmoko changes, then a simple "echo power_ip" > power_cycle in /sys/something should do the trick. |
| 23:12.37 | CoreDump|home | I had some "voltage" messages in dmesg after the power_up thing |
| 23:13.25 | Elrond | Hmm, part of the power_up is to tell the PMU to give power to the gps... |
| 23:14.45 | CoreDump|home | http://rafb.net/p/sWTNxT75.html |
| 23:16.15 | Elrond | That doesn't look bad to me. |
| 23:16.32 | Elrond | Try feeding the init-sequence into the gps. :) |
| 23:16.36 | CoreDump|home | I did |
| 23:16.41 | CoreDump|home | nothing happened |
| 23:16.54 | Elrond | strange. |
| 23:17.18 | Elrond | You had ttySAC1 in 56.6 8n1? |
| 23:17.29 | balrog-kun | maybe there was no satelites near :) |
| 23:17.44 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: well, not exactly =D |
| 23:17.49 | Elrond | balrog-kun - It should still say "hi, I'm living". ;) |
| 23:18.08 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - power the gps down before retrying. :) |
| 23:18.11 | SpeedEvil | Speed is irrelevant. |
| 23:18.15 | balrog-kun | yeah, it should say something *goes to look at the wiki* |
| 23:18.16 | SpeedEvil | It's pretty flexible. |
| 23:18.38 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - But 8n1 should be it, no? |
| 23:18.42 | SpeedEvil | As long as you exceed a given baudrate - I guess 9600 |
| 23:18.52 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 23:19.20 | Elrond | If you don't do 8n1, I'd say the guessing goes wrong. ;) |
| 23:19.37 | SpeedEvil | 256 ioctl(3, SNDCTL_TMR_TIMEBASE or TCGETS, {B115200 -opost -isig -icanon -ech |
| 23:19.37 | SpeedEvil | o ...}) = 0 |
| 23:19.37 | SpeedEvil | 256 ioctl(3, SNDCTL_TMR_START or TCSETS, {B115200 -opost -isig -icanon -echo . |
| 23:19.37 | SpeedEvil | ..}) = 0 |
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| 23:21.05 | SpeedEvil | I assume that's 8n1, as that's what defaults tend to be. |
| 23:21.10 | Elrond | We need the full TCSETS, or is (-)opost, (-)isig, (-)icanon the 8n1, thingies?! |
| 23:21.59 | Elrond | But we now know, that 115200 is "preferred" by tomtom. ;) |
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| 23:23.47 | SpeedEvil | icanon is 'enable special chars' opost is postprocess output, isig is enable interrupts, echo is echo input chars |
| 23:23.55 | SpeedEvil | -foo is the opposite |
| 23:24.01 | SpeedEvil | so it's just making it binary |
| 23:24.32 | Elrond | Well, it was binary before, it seems ;) |
| 23:24.39 | SpeedEvil | prolly. |
| 23:25.09 | Elrond | So we need the full TCSETS to be sure about 8n1. ;) |
| 23:25.21 | SpeedEvil | Well - that's all the strace has. |
| 23:26.48 | Elrond | Yep. We should ask for a new one some time ;o) |
| 23:27.03 | SpeedEvil | stty stty raw 115200 </dev/ttyS0 |
| 23:27.05 | SpeedEvil | stty raw 115200 </dev/ttyS0 |
| 23:27.08 | SpeedEvil | rather |
| 23:27.12 | SpeedEvil | should pretty much do it. |
| 23:28.01 | Elrond | s/S0/SAC1/ ;-) |
| 23:28.27 | Elrond | Is 8n1 the default? |
| 23:28.33 | SpeedEvil | stty raw 115200 -ctrscts </dev/ttySAC1 maybe |
| 23:29.46 | Elrond | ${scriptlanguage}-serial for openmoko ;o) |
| 23:32.31 | SpeedEvil | stty raw 115200 -ctrscts cs8 -parity </dev/ttySAC1 maybe |
| 23:32.54 | CoreDump|home | ouch, I just "fuser -mk"'ed my machine to death |
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| 23:35.39 | CoreDump|home | so, does one of you two want to try it on the real neo? Setting up a port-forwarding wouldn't be much of a problem. |
| 23:36.11 | SpeedEvil | I'm feeling rather horribly tired ATM. Just picked up new car today. |
| 23:36.18 | SpeedEvil | Sorry. |
| 23:36.36 | CoreDump|home | =) |
| 23:37.51 | SpeedEvil | Well - for small values of new. |
| 23:37.59 | SpeedEvil | Coincidentally, exactly the same price as the neo. |
| 23:38.10 | SpeedEvil | Annoyingly, it was the money I'd put aside. |
| 23:38.21 | SpeedEvil | Hopefully I'll have more by the time. |
| 23:38.23 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - ugg. |
| 23:38.28 | CoreDump|home | ouch |
| 23:39.29 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - You could get me curious. Except I really should get into my bed so my excursion tomorrow wont be a sleep-excursion ;) |
| 23:39.45 | CoreDump|home | hehe |
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| 23:40.19 | d4rkm3n | hello |
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| 23:41.02 | Elrond | CoreDump|home - I'll come back to your offer tomorrow :) |
| 23:41.11 | CoreDump|home | sure, no hurry |
| 23:41.33 | Elrond | Great :) |
| 23:41.39 | d4rkm3n | in which phase is the neo1973 |
| 23:42.28 | CoreDump|home | 0.5-ish |
| 23:42.30 | CoreDump|home | ;) |
| 23:42.44 | Elrond | 0.7ish I'd say. ;-) |
| 23:43.07 | d4rkm3n | will there be wlan? |
| 23:43.08 | aloril | P1.5 will likely have WiFi (Atheros AR6K or Marvell 8686): http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/03/25#20070325-returning_from_taipei http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F (WiFi status for P1.5 will be known for sure when P1 becomes available and also what kind of discount for P1.5 is given for P1 buyers) |