| 00:00.52 | SpeedEvil | It is good in some cases, which may overlap the OLPC considerably. |
| 00:00.52 | josh__ | 802.11s is completely a new one to me... interesting. |
| 00:00.52 | cjb | you do lose a lot of bandwidth for each mesh hop. |
| 00:00.52 | cjb | other than that I don't see that it's overhyped. |
| 00:00.53 | cjb | especially when you have a chip like ours, which stays on and routing layer2 when the main CPU is off. |
| 00:00.54 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that you have no collision avoidance on distant nodes. |
| 00:01.15 | cjb | what kind of collision? |
| 00:01.20 | SpeedEvil | And in places where there are many nodes close together, you get cocktail party effects drowning out local signals. |
| 00:01.30 | SpeedEvil | Like ethernet. |
| 00:01.30 | cjb | yeah. that's why the bandwidth drops. |
| 00:01.54 | SpeedEvil | You can't tell when a far transmitter transmits, so you can't avoid transmitting at the same time. |
| 00:02.12 | SpeedEvil | So you inherently interfere with it once you get a bit out of normal range. |
| 00:02.33 | cjb | but surely the mesh node that actually communicates with that far away node could know? |
| 00:02.37 | SpeedEvil | But the number of sources rises as fast as the signal drops off (given sources distributed evenly over a plane) |
| 00:03.01 | SpeedEvil | Mesh routing works for 'small' meshes. |
| 00:03.24 | cjb | we're using a moderately large one at OLPC hq fine :) |
| 00:03.26 | SpeedEvil | When the mesh starts to get large - say >10 hops, you start to need to split frequencies. |
| 00:03.35 | SpeedEvil | >1000 nodes? |
| 00:03.37 | cjb | doesn't that happen automatically? |
| 00:03.38 | cjb | nah. |
| 00:03.40 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 00:04.05 | cjb | you're right that such a huge mesh would suffer. I don't know that OLPC is creating any that large, though. |
| 00:04.20 | SpeedEvil | I don't think it's a direct problem for OLPC. |
| 00:04.39 | SpeedEvil | It's a problem for those proclaiming that mesh routing will solve everything. |
| 00:05.01 | SpeedEvil | Consider an infinite plane of evenly distributed transmitters. |
| 00:05.20 | SpeedEvil | As you go out from the origin, the signal strength falls off by 1/r^2 |
| 00:05.25 | SpeedEvil | (per transmitter) |
| 00:05.42 | SpeedEvil | but the number of new transmitters increases as r |
| 00:06.04 | mjr | bah, it's a technical problem; we just need to have the underlying network use auto-directed point-to-point infrared lasers! |
| 00:06.06 | SpeedEvil | This means that eventually, you hit infinite noise. |
| 00:06.48 | SpeedEvil | Absorbing atmosphere (60Ghz frequency) could fix this. |
| 00:07.13 | SpeedEvil | Pointing links at each other helps a little too - but only by a factor of several. |
| 00:07.18 | roh | heh... slowly i'm gaining speed *install* |
| 00:09.00 | SpeedEvil | cjb: What's the largest mesh so far? |
| 00:10.05 | roh | SpeedEvil here in berlin and in a lot of other cities throughout europe the 'freifunk' community is quite strong |
| 00:10.34 | cjb | SpeedEvil: Your IRC client is sending ANSI codes that my client doesn't understand, |
| 00:10.39 | roh | SpeedEvil a few hundred nodes in one cloud, and they tunnel the clouds together also |
| 00:11.08 | SpeedEvil | cjb: odd. |
| 00:11.37 | SpeedEvil | roh: True - there is at least a modicum of network planning in some of that though. |
| 00:11.50 | roh | SpeedEvil i think its the fat ':' your client emits |
| 00:11.57 | cjb | SpeedEvil: I think it's trying to make the : bold, |
| 00:12.02 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
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| 00:14.13 | SpeedEvil | speedevil: test |
| 00:14.34 | mjr | seems to have done it |
| 00:14.40 | cjb | SpeedEvil: it only does it for tab-completed colons, |
| 00:14.57 | cjb | so try one of those :) |
| 00:15.00 | SpeedEvil | Actually - seemingly not. I rarely use the feature. |
| 00:15.14 | SpeedEvil | I generally simply type the name followed by a colon. |
| 00:15.26 | cjb | Ah, okay. |
| 00:16.32 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:16.45 | parag0n | counter |
| 00:16.45 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 6 days 05:51:37 (13.244 +-13.2 days) (920,167) |
| 00:16.50 | parag0n | :'< |
| 00:17.06 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:17.08 | SpeedEvil | AIUI |
| 00:18.12 | roh | man, this ibm factory-reset-all procedure takes ages |
| 00:18.43 | SpeedEvil | What are you trying to do? |
| 00:19.26 | roh | i have to give back the t60 to the last company i worked for and migrate my setup to the new t60p |
| 00:20.47 | roh | meaning copying a few hundred gig of data and wipeing the disk afterwards and then recover the old winxp install (thats what i'm watching right now... 7th reboot or so without any key press needed) |
| 00:21.12 | SpeedEvil | Ah. I was thinking it was something PDA like. |
| 00:21.55 | roh | 8th reboot X-) |
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| 00:22.55 | openstandards | i can't wait to see the integration between evolution and openmoko |
| 00:23.36 | openstandards | a phone that will actually be easy to sync up and manage contacts, appointments |
| 00:24.00 | orospakr | openstandards: I totally dig it. :) |
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| 00:24.29 | openstandards | that would be nice wouldn't it orospakr? |
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| 00:28.54 | josh_ | so basically youre saying that 802.11s could work for this application... although the standard is not yet approved... |
| 00:29.44 | cjb | I'm not actually saying that. 802.11s chips are too expensive for the Moko, I bet. |
| 00:30.06 | cjb | And you need to have other .11s chips around to talk to. So, no, it's an awful idea. |
| 00:30.16 | josh_ | something def intersting for the future. |
| 00:30.19 | roh | cjb besides that i'd like to see any mobile mesh which really works first ;) |
| 00:30.20 | openstandards | cjb, how did olpc get away with having them? |
| 00:30.40 | josh_ | was going to ask that |
| 00:30.48 | cjb | openstandards: it is a requirement. the developing world does not contain ethernet. :) |
| 00:31.53 | cjb | they're not outrageously expensive (I don't know how much OLPC pays), but I imagine it's too much for the consumer moko, in the quantities they're building in. |
| 00:31.53 | openstandards | fair enough, good enough reason |
| 00:31.59 | josh_ | and wimax was supposed to be the last mile.. lol |
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| 00:32.49 | openstandards | i wonder if we'll see nokia supporting openmoko as a framework in years to come |
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| 00:37.54 | mjr | we'll see, I rather think they'll try and do something semi-open in-house first. Like Maemo ;] |
| 00:38.37 | josh_ | just throwing this out.. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ZigBee |
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| 00:41.02 | roh | josh_ its dead already |
| 00:41.24 | josh_ | oh ok |
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| 01:23.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:Video_Player]] [[Talk:Music_Player]] |
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| 01:26.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r1802 10/developers/werner/usb-pullup/ (gates.fig npn-pnp.sch two-diodes.sch): |
| 01:26.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: two-diodes.sch: QUCS schematic and simulation of dual diode design |
| 01:26.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: npn-pnp.sch: QUCS schematic and simulation of NPN/PNP pair |
| 01:26.57 | CIA-16 | openmoko: gates.fig: schematic (XFig) for solution using 74AUP1Gxx or 74AHC1Gxx gates |
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| 05:03.04 | bhima|n800 | counter |
| 05:03.04 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 6 days 03:28:28 (13.145 +-13.1 days) (921,167) |
| 05:03.22 | kmeyer | ooh |
| 05:03.24 | kmeyer | < 2 weeks now |
| 05:03.34 | kmeyer | means in a week and 4 days, it'll be pushed back another two :P |
| 05:05.20 | bhima|n800 | cingular rep told us first iPhone allocation is 1m units |
| 05:06.35 | bhima|n800 | and they don't get any sort of employee priority for them, first come first served |
| 05:07.36 | bhima|n800 | Now I have to choose, iPhone, neo1973, or s60 phone with US 3g... |
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| 06:37.00 | sumasuma | bhima|n800: don't buy anything, since US mobile network is very poor |
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| 07:01.17 | kiney | counter |
| 07:01.17 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 6 days 02:29:21 (13.104 +-13.1 days) (922,167) |
| 07:07.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Higher_level_language_options]] [[Higher_level_language_options]] [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
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| 07:22.24 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Power management concept... |
| 07:23.29 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 07:23.59 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@212.12.163.101) |
| 07:24.05 | Rakshasa | 'lo |
| 07:29.49 | kelvinn | morn |
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| 07:43.54 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1803 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (4 files): |
| 07:43.55 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * remove mmc_partition_fix since it is now in mainline u-boot |
| 07:43.55 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * make sure uboot-s3c2410_udc and uboot-dfu still apply (makefile hunk update) |
| 07:43.55 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * actually copy descriptor in DFU rather than assigning pointers |
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| 08:03.24 | aloril | (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Pingwinaria 2007 http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/04/19/pingwinaria-2007-2/ |
| 08:06.00 | Rakshasa | Hmm. Maybe someone could translate that blog entry... =P |
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| 08:09.36 | hrw | morning |
| 08:09.50 | hrw | Rakshasa: if I will find time I will translate presentation ;) |
| 08:10.29 | Rakshasa | hrw: Thanks. (In advance) ^^ |
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| 08:25.46 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1804 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): |
| 08:25.46 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * merge dynpart-absorb-bad.patch into nand-dynamic_partitions.patch |
| 08:25.46 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * introduce new CONFIG_NAND_DYNPART to [de]activate dynpart feature |
| 08:25.46 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * modularize dynpart partition size and names into per-board data structures |
| 08:25.47 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * use CONFIG_NAND_DYNPART and per-board data from qt2410 and neo1973 |
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| 09:00.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Power_Management]] |
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| 09:06.24 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1805 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/openmoko/flash.sh: |
| 09:06.24 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Avoid "stat" in scripts as it doesn't even pretend to be cross-platform |
| 09:06.24 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (see BSD), and "gstat" is too risky. |
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| 09:11.03 | Stephmw | mornin' |
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| 09:29.55 | deepank | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:30.18 | hrw | welcome deepank |
| 09:30.33 | deepank | I will be doing the project on ad-hoc communication via bluetooth |
| 09:31.13 | hrw | deepank: with Werner? |
| 09:31.23 | deepank | yes |
| 09:31.41 | XorA | deepank: is that meaning being able to setup tcp/ip pipes to people who happen to walk past, or being able to easilly build scatternets |
| 09:33.20 | deepank | I will aim at building a scatternet .I do not know about TCP/IP pipies as such in detail |
| 09:33.46 | XorA | deepank: ah cool, I always liked the idea of scatternets when I was working on reference BT designs, but no-one seems to use them |
| 09:34.48 | XorA | scatternet + free GPRS on a couple of devices and suddenly an office of phones can become internet connected |
| 09:34.58 | XorA | call centers tremble in fear :-) |
| 09:35.07 | deepank | :) |
| 09:35.39 | deepank | please tell me about the way to implement it in more detail and your past experience |
| 09:36.03 | ewon | morning |
| 09:36.05 | XorA | deepank: I didnt ever actually build one as back in those days devices couldnt master and slave at the same time |
| 09:36.23 | XorA | deepank: but I spent many hours reading the specs in preperations |
| 09:36.48 | deepank | great ... can u guide me furthur |
| 09:37.02 | XorA | deepank: after 7 years I forget all the details |
| 09:37.19 | parag0n | deepank, i have a friend who has just finished building a bluetooth gaming-network-layer for his dissertation, you may be interested in talking to him |
| 09:37.49 | XorA | deepank: but from what I remeber contructing the net shouldnt be hard, its just making a service that will make use of it. I would suggest something like zeroconf for BT scatternet |
| 09:38.07 | deepank | [paragOn]yes I would love to |
| 09:38.45 | deepank | yes even i was planing to do so ... i was also recommeneded to use BlueZ-utils for the task |
| 09:39.19 | XorA | deepank: anyway it will be an interesting 3 months for you and I really hope you make something interesting |
| 09:39.28 | deepank | paragon: can u give me his contacts |
| 09:39.47 | deepank | yes ... I plan to learn and do wonders in these 3 months |
| 09:40.52 | deepank | wish me luck ... |
| 09:41.38 | parag0n | deepank, i've PM'd them to you |
| 09:42.04 | deepank | thanks XorA :) |
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| 09:42.39 | _ASK | hello |
| 09:43.35 | hrw | deepank: read about bnep, PAN |
| 09:43.57 | deepank | Ok, wat is the full form of bnep |
| 09:44.33 | deepank | got it |
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| 09:47.36 | *** join/#openmoko bgeradz (n=gena@212.98.169.206) |
| 09:48.09 | deepank | can I have more advices regarding the way in which I must proceed .. |
| 09:48.37 | bgeradz | hi everyone! buy in a couple of week from which date?? |
| 09:48.37 | aloril | bgeradz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 10:05.03 | parag0n | bgeradz, try counter |
| 10:05.06 | parag0n | counter |
| 10:05.07 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 6 days 00:57:26 (13.040 +-13.0 days) (923,167) |
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| 10:28.03 | Herod2k | hi guys |
| 10:34.26 | peepsalot | allo |
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| 10:54.24 | aloril | (script) planet: Marcin "hrw" Juszkiewicz: Feel the power of USB http://blog.haerwu.biz/2007/04/19/feel-the-power-of-usb/ |
| 10:54.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 11:09.10 | woglinde | counter |
| 11:09.11 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 6 days 00:25:24 (13.018 +-13.0 days) (924,167) |
| 11:10.57 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
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| 11:11.42 | zecke | can anyone verify that http://downloads.openmoko.org/sources/git_www.denx.de.git.u-boot.git..tar.gz is corrupted? |
| 11:11.56 | zecke | fatal: corrupted pack file .git/objects/pack/pack-a146bcbc18f4826d6bf2a7f63be5dd77bbb5b2f5.pack |
| 11:12.15 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 11:12.55 | hrw | file itself is correct |
| 11:13.06 | hrw | unpacks ok |
| 11:13.31 | zecke | hrw: do a git pull |
| 11:13.44 | zecke | git pull git://www.denx.de/git/u-boot.git/ |
| 11:13.55 | hrw | Already up-to-date. |
| 11:14.02 | zecke | git --version |
| 11:14.10 | hrw | 1.5.1 |
| 11:14.55 | kiney | counter |
| 11:14.55 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 6 days 00:22:32 (13.016 +-13.0 days) (925,167) |
| 11:15.02 | hrw | will check with 1.4.2.3 on ltg |
| 11:15.20 | hrw | fatal: corrupted pack file .git/objects/pack/pack-a146bcbc18f4826d6bf2a7f63be5dd77bbb5b2f5.pack |
| 11:15.38 | zecke | hrw: should OE switch to git? :} |
| 11:15.56 | hrw | ;D |
| 11:21.53 | *** join/#openmoko Dodji (n=dodji@torimasen.com) |
| 11:25.42 | zecke | LaF0rge: mickey|zzZZzz: please take a look at #476 I have stopped the incremental build due this |
| 11:26.17 | zecke | hrw: with out luck only 'odd' version numbers of git will work |
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| 11:31.27 | bgeradz | parag0n: what's "counter" ? |
| 11:34.34 | hrw | counter |
| 11:34.34 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 6 days 00:12:43 (13.009 +-13.0 days) (926,167) |
| 11:34.38 | hrw | this is counter |
| 11:34.58 | hrw | counter? |
| 11:34.58 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 6 days 00:12:31 (13.009 +-13.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-30); 4 months, 3 weeks, 6 days (150.017 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (927,167) |
| 11:35.20 | hrw | this is script which try to guess when phones will be available |
| 11:36.49 | parag0n | yes |
| 11:37.24 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Power management concept... |
| 11:37.45 | bgeradz | sorry, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 is another page, what's the url of the script? |
| 11:37.59 | bgeradz | or am I blind or something |
| 11:40.04 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:46.03 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1806 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-contact-pane.c): |
| 11:46.03 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (make_widget), (update_ui): |
| 11:46.04 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - Add support for internally tagging multi line fields |
| 11:46.04 | CIA-16 | openmoko: - Add address, birthday and notes fields |
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| 12:10.19 | kiney | counter |
| 12:10.20 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 5 days 23:54:50 (12.996 +-13.0 days) (928,167) |
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| 12:48.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
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| 13:03.16 | cheesy | counter |
| 13:03.16 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 5 days 23:28:22 (12.978 +-13.0 days) (929,167) |
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| 14:32.06 | asdfadf | counter |
| 14:32.08 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 5 days 22:43:56 (12.947 +-12.9 days) (930,167) |
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| 14:42.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Web_Browser]] |
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| 14:43.54 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:46.53 | fledermaus | semi-topical: http://tglx.de/private/tglx/celf2007/celf-2007-keynote.pdf |
| 14:47.08 | *** join/#openmoko GaKkGaKk (n=Viko@93.80-202-221.nextgentel.com) |
| 14:52.44 | hrw | fledermaus: great ;) |
| 14:55.10 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:56.11 | stefan_schmidt | Nice artwork :) |
| 14:57.04 | koen | thomas gave a nice speech :) |
| 14:57.44 | stefan_schmidt | koen: You know if videos are available? |
| 14:57.51 | koen | the mobile phone day is today at CELF |
| 14:57.56 | koen | stefan_schmidt: later on |
| 14:58.07 | stefan_schmidt | koen: both cool |
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| 15:12.20 | dho | a bit off topic |
| 15:12.32 | dho | but, does anybody know of any small ARM-based systems with an MMU that cost around $75 - 100 and can be plugged into (US) power |
| 15:16.28 | hrw | dho: linksys nslu2? |
| 15:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko chiahsin (n=chiahsin@125-229-201-225.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 15:16.46 | hrw | its ~100 eur |
| 15:17.05 | fledermaus | dho: simtec may do something along those lines. |
| 15:17.13 | fledermaus | hang on I'll ask one of their devs. |
| 15:17.36 | XorA | waking the fluff :-D |
| 15:17.54 | dho | ethernet (10/100 minimum) is a requirement as well, which may put the price out of that range, but i dont' have to buy a bunch at once |
| 15:18.14 | XorA | dho: nslu2 still meats that |
| 15:18.16 | dho | OOH |
| 15:18.17 | hrw | dho: nslu2 has ethernet and 2xusb 2.0 |
| 15:18.22 | dho | Amazon has NSLU2 for $86 |
| 15:19.31 | XorA | sucks with current GB rate that would only be about 42 quid |
| 15:19.37 | XorA | but postage would kill |
| 15:19.42 | koen | I think walmart has them for $90 |
| 15:19.43 | *** join/#openmoko Yogesh (i=yogesh@nat/codito/x-5875369b44497f1f) |
| 15:20.00 | dho | I think I'm going to buy 2 of them to start off with. |
| 15:20.05 | dho | New platform for Plan 9 I guess, heh. |
| 15:21.33 | *** join/#openmoko deepank (n=deepankg@59.178.44.84) |
| 15:22.34 | fledermaus | dho: http://www.simtec.co.uk/products/ |
| 15:23.15 | fledermaus | may have something that meets your needs. |
| 15:23.31 | fledermaus | of course with the current $/£ rate it'll be expensive. |
| 15:23.47 | LetoTo | gumstix? |
| 15:24.02 | fledermaus | LetoTo: ? |
| 15:24.13 | dho | gumstix are like $180 each |
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| 15:34.14 | Yogesh | is there any interface between framebuffer driver and jbt6k74.c lcd driver |
| 15:34.17 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@60.231.234.161) |
| 15:35.24 | Yogesh | Can anybody tell me , is there any interface between framebuffer driver and jbt6k74.c lcd driver |
| 15:38.44 | Yogesh | I assume that in normal case all the operation like lcd start / lcd stop should be called through framebuffer driver so there should be communication or interface between frambuffer driver and LCD driver |
| 15:39.13 | Yogesh | But i didnt get it from code |
| 15:39.23 | Yogesh | Can anybody clear my point |
| 15:39.31 | Yogesh | thanks in adavance |
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| 15:45.36 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1807 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (3 files in 2 dirs): |
| 15:45.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-callbacks-ebook.c: (contacts_added_cb), |
| 15:45.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (contacts_changed_cb): |
| 15:45.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (field_changed), (make_widget): |
| 15:45.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Plug some leaks and other potential problems |
| 15:48.21 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 15:50.38 | Rakshasa | Hmm. parallel fetch (pardon my gentooish dialect) would be a nice feature in mokomakefile... |
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| 16:07.53 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1808 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2440.patch: * add S3C2440 NAND driver support |
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| 16:09.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1809 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-hxd8.patch: |
| 16:09.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * use correct serial UART (3) for HXD8 |
| 16:09.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * add lowlevel_foo.bin building for HXD8 |
| 16:09.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * only use 300MHz core frequency due to PLL capacitor bug in early hardware |
| 16:09.28 | hrw | Rakshasa: telll openmoko coreteam to update bitbake to 1.8 ;D |
| 16:11.53 | LarstiQ | ehm, cpu core? |
| 16:12.11 | hrw | cu |
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| 16:36.14 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
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| 16:37.11 | Stephmw | koen: nice touch |
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| 16:37.39 | Stephmw | koen_: nice touch |
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| 17:24.32 | PupenoR | Hello. |
| 17:25.56 | PupenoR | I'll have to buy a cell phone in a month or so... I know that OpenMoko is not open to mass-market yet, but if I can qualify as a dev I'd like to try (after all, I am a developer and I'd like to get into the embedded market, just didn't have the chance yet). |
| 17:26.28 | stefan_schmidt | PupenoR: You can even buy if you are not a dev. |
| 17:26.38 | PupenoR | cool! :) |
| 17:26.52 | PupenoR | Would the phone work in Ireland? |
| 17:26.52 | aloril | PupenoR: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:26.53 | stefan_schmidt | PupenoR: But keep in mind that is under development. Not a finished product. |
| 17:27.09 | stefan_schmidt | PupenoR: It's a standard GSM phone |
| 17:27.16 | PupenoR | stefan_schmidt: ok, it'll be unstable like everything around me where I can install software ;) |
| 17:27.49 | thresh | too bad there would be problems on getting the device to Russia |
| 17:28.02 | *** join/#openmoko Gebly (i=hagay@bzq-84-108-160-232.cablep.bezeqint.net) |
| 17:28.05 | stefan_schmidt | thresh: Why? |
| 17:28.24 | thresh | it isnt certified by 'rostest' |
| 17:28.38 | thresh | already had the problem with nokia n770 :/ |
| 17:29.08 | stefan_schmidt | thresh: hmm, already added this to the wiki? |
| 17:29.16 | thresh | hmm, no |
| 17:29.36 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.161.147) |
| 17:29.38 | stefan_schmidt | thresh: Wouls be good to let people know about the problem. Perhaps they are able to care about it. |
| 17:30.21 | thresh | right. |
| 17:30.56 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=guest@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 17:31.09 | stefan_schmidt | PupenoR: So if you have all that in mind the phone would be fine for you. Even if it not always useable as phone. ;) |
| 17:31.39 | PupenoR | stefan_schmidt: Ok for me... let's see if I can convince my wife. :P |
| 17:31.48 | stefan_schmidt | PupenoR: heh |
| 17:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=guest@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 17:38.45 | GaKkGaKk | PupenoR: If she doesn't agree, you might be able to exchange her for at least two phones.. |
| 17:39.49 | PupenoR | GaKkGaKk: what do you mean? the problem is not buying her an OpenMoko, the problem is that I have an OpenMoko and I arrive home to find her: I've been calling you for two hours, where have you been, I needed you to buy milk on your way home. I pick up the phone to find a kernel panic. |
| 17:41.12 | GaKkGaKk | PupenoR: What I really meant was... If she doesn't "let" you get this phone... You might be able to trade her away, and get one anyway :) |
| 17:41.36 | PupenoR | hehehe. What a wife... she's already making excuses for me to buy it anyway :) |
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| 17:56.02 | poffy__ | Is the GTK lib that OpenMoko uses "complete"? Does it have all functions and such that normal GTK has? |
| 17:56.11 | poffy__ | or have some functions or filetypes been removed? |
| 17:56.39 | balrog-kun | afaik it's complete, |
| 17:56.41 | balrog-kun | but applications should never rely on that |
| 17:56.41 | *** join/#openmoko simon___ (n=simon@h98n2fls301o1032.telia.com) |
| 17:56.50 | poffy__ | I understand |
| 17:56.57 | balrog-kun | or rely on GTK at all |
| 17:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47^ (i=xkr47@a88-112-19-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:57.49 | simon___ | counter? |
| 17:57.49 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 5 days 21:01:13 (12.876 +-12.9 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-05-01); 4 months, 3 weeks, 5 days (149.752 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (931,167) |
| 17:58.01 | *** join/#openmoko stratus (n=stratus@201.53.55.52) |
| 17:59.35 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=deluxe@p85.212.58.180.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 17:59.38 | quickdev | Hello :) |
| 18:00.39 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 18:01.11 | quickdev | Would it be possible to transfer data from one neo to another using a gsm connection? |
| 18:01.50 | cjb | you mean gprs, I guess? |
| 18:02.10 | quickdev | Isn't it also possible over gsm? |
| 18:02.17 | balrog-kun | *possible* yes |
| 18:02.28 | quickdev | balrog-kun: but? :) |
| 18:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko openstandards (n=vir@ACCF4C86.ipt.aol.com) |
| 18:02.44 | balrog-kun | like you could connect two computers through soundcard jacks in good old days |
| 18:03.41 | quickdev | would the transfered data be corrupted in some way? would it be possible to transfer some text data? |
| 18:04.11 | cjb | I'm not sure it's possible when you just have AT commands for operating GSM. Dunno. |
| 18:04.17 | balrog-kun | with enough error checking, it would be possible and very impractical |
| 18:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@2001:638:602:af01:219:d2ff:fe05:bdce) |
| 18:04.37 | balrog-kun | i mean connecting through your GSM operator |
| 18:04.38 | quickdev | gprs is the more elegant way? ;) |
| 18:04.48 | balrog-kun | not like ad-hoc |
| 18:04.57 | cjb | yes, 5 |
| 18:05.05 | cjb | I'm having trouble thinking of a reason not to use GPRS |
| 18:05.08 | cjb | a/5// |
| 18:06.50 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:11.48 | high-rez | Anyone with a prototype device have news on what the battery is looking like? |
| 18:12.05 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 18:12.42 | high-rez | I'm so far, far from impressed with the < 12 hours of standbye from the qtopia device. ;) |
| 18:13.05 | cjb | then you won't like this phone much |
| 18:13.15 | cjb | well, it'll be better when suspend/resume works |
| 18:13.53 | high-rez | Yeah, I don't think this device that I'm playing with now has any sort of concept of suspend, it's just eating power all day. |
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| 18:18.27 | quickdev | Would gprs be enough for simple chatting with your friends? |
| 18:18.45 | cjb | voice or text? |
| 18:18.50 | quickdev | text ;) |
| 18:18.56 | cjb | of course |
| 18:19.15 | quickdev | ping of ~1 second? |
| 18:19.58 | cjb | less. |
| 18:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@64-172-16-225.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 18:25.07 | zecke | koen: hi, how was your talk? |
| 18:25.15 | zecke | koen: is anyone from Trolltech present at all? |
| 18:25.47 | Stephmw | high-rez: fwiw, power management always seems to be the last thing on any oem's mind when it comes to prototypes |
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| 18:29.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Shipping_Notes]] |
| 18:34.38 | koen | zecke: noone from TT |
| 18:34.43 | koen | and the talk went *really* well |
| 18:40.08 | koen | lots of MV people, though |
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| 18:46.23 | MetaMorfoziS | hi all |
| 18:46.27 | MetaMorfoziS | i have played with my sdcard, i have partitioned etc... |
| 18:46.29 | MetaMorfoziS | but actually i want to get back to work with my digital camera, how can i rastore that? i tryed with mkfs.vfat |
| 18:46.40 | MetaMorfoziS | but actually not too many good happenned... |
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| 18:56.21 | pjz | koen: what do you think of the gnome announcement? |
| 18:57.18 | koen | pjz: it is a nice statement |
| 18:57.24 | aloril | (script) planet: Koen Kooi: GNOME Mobile & Embedded Initiative http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/gnome-mobile-embedded-initiative |
| 18:57.57 | koen | but it basically is "ln <stuff>.tar.bz2 GMAE/" at release time |
| 18:57.58 | *** join/#openmoko atla_ (n=atla@p3EE3F954.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:59.35 | pjz | I see |
| 19:00.35 | Stephmw | koen: did I mention I've handed my notice in? |
| 19:01.15 | Stephmw | koen: just have to wait out the notice period and then I can finally hack on some OSS j2me stuff |
| 19:01.34 | koen | Stephmw: cool |
| 19:01.44 | koen | I hope you enjoy your new job |
| 19:01.53 | Stephmw | I'm taking a break from work ;-) |
| 19:02.01 | Stephmw | ... starting mid-August |
| 19:02.34 | koen | later all |
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| 19:22.39 | ljp | high-rez: flash to the latest 4.2.1 for the greenphone if you want better standyby time |
| 19:22.54 | *** join/#openmoko jjongsma (n=jjongsma@69.211.177.8) |
| 19:24.10 | jjongsma | I'm trying to setup a dev environment with MokoMakefile - in openmoko-devel-image it is failing trying to unpack the uboot-gta01 git archive with the following message: "fatal: corrupted pack file .git/objects/pack/pack-a146bcbc18f4826d6bf2a7f63be5dd77bbb5b2f5.pack" |
| 19:24.12 | ljp | high-rez: also, you have to go into power settings and set 'back to home screen' to get better power savings |
| 19:24.22 | jjongsma | I tried re-downloading several times, so it's probably not a corrupted download |
| 19:24.29 | jjongsma | any ideas what could be happening? |
| 19:24.30 | aloril | jjongsma: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:31.19 | roh | jjongsma you git seems to old |
| 19:31.31 | jjongsma | i'm running 1.4.1 |
| 19:31.34 | jjongsma | what is recommended? |
| 19:31.49 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44a7d9.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:32.25 | roh | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=476 |
| 19:32.34 | roh | 1.4.4 or higher it seems |
| 19:32.43 | jjongsma | ok, thank you! |
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| 19:42.24 | jjongsma | looks like it's working now, thanks |
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| 20:02.57 | kiney | counter |
| 20:02.57 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 5 days 19:58:31 (12.832 +-12.8 days) (932,167) |
| 20:20.29 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:22.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[User:Sleepless]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 20:24.43 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@adsl-75-30-116-94.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:28.03 | quickdev | On the Power Management Page is written, that the standby time rises significantly, if the cpu is off. Will the phone still be able to receive calls in this mode? |
| 20:28.27 | cjb | yes |
| 20:28.47 | cjb | it would be sensible to have a signal going from the GSM module to the embedded controller that makes it wakeup on demand. |
| 20:29.01 | cjb | that's probably what they're doing. |
| 20:29.04 | quickdev | ah..very nice :) |
| 20:29.25 | quickdev | so standby time wil me earlier or later more than 4 days? :) |
| 20:29.34 | cjb | dunno. |
| 20:32.10 | quickdev | 350$ is about 260 euro? |
| 20:34.17 | atla_ | hopefully |
| 20:34.17 | LarstiQ | quickdev: yes, but usually shipping/import/taxes raises that a bit for me |
| 20:34.17 | atla_ | http://www.google.de/search?q=350%24+in+euro&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=com.ubuntu:en-US:official&client=firefox-a |
| 20:35.07 | quickdev | ah..thx |
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| 21:07.45 | Mandarino | Hiz |
| 21:07.48 | Mandarino | counter |
| 21:07.48 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 5 days 19:26:06 (12.810 +-12.8 days) (933,167) |
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| 21:31.05 | Sufflope | OMG |
| 21:31.39 | Sufflope | started using MokoMakeFile 4 hours ago, to see how OpenMoko looks for now and if there are some translatable progs :) |
| 21:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@189.11.20.98) |
| 21:31.54 | Sufflope | how many hours left ? :( |
| 21:33.26 | rycuda | !counter |
| 21:35.42 | GaKkGaKk | What is the counter based on? |
| 21:37.19 | balrog-kun | eruptions on sun activity |
| 21:37.32 | roh | Sufflope depends on your machine and the speed of the web.. with 2-4mbit sdsl and a core duo 2ghz its about 6hours for the first build |
| 21:38.06 | roh | fast disks help... lots of configure runs which take longer than the actual compile |
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| 21:50.09 | thomasg_gpm | does openmoko (on the neo) support xrandr and randrrotation? |
| 21:51.06 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 21:51.58 | hrw | yes |
| 21:52.47 | woglinde | its kdrive so it should |
| 21:57.12 | roh | thomasg_gpm jap |
| 21:57.14 | thomasg_gpm | ok, I just was wondering, why on all picutures in landscape-view the menu-bars were at left and right side (short sides), although using randrrotation would make it possible to have the bars top and down sided in landscape mode as well |
| 21:57.41 | *** join/#openmoko koen_ (n=koen@64-172-16-225.ded.pacbell.net) |
| 21:57.46 | woglinde | re koen |
| 21:58.04 | woglinde | hi roh |
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| 21:58.44 | roh | thomasg_gpm the application sw is whats the most work will be in the future. till soon ago most work is gone into system level and nongui |
| 21:59.12 | roh | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:00.19 | thomasg_gpm | hope the neo will be released soon, so I can test all the things I'd like to know by myself :) |
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| 22:02.00 | balrog-kun | in landscape the menu-bars would be taking more screen space |
| 22:02.22 | thomasg_gpm | balrog-kun, thats true |
| 22:02.25 | balrog-kun | and you don't have like a whole lot of content on them now |
| 22:02.55 | thomasg_gpm | so a function could be added to reduce the bars to a single one in landscape mode. but we'll see :) |
| 22:04.10 | thomasg_gpm | but thats not my problem. like I said, I was wondering why there is a landscape mode, but not with randrrotation. |
| 22:04.13 | hrw | panels are on top/bottom in landscape |
| 22:04.23 | hrw | but loose applets ;( |
| 22:04.35 | thomasg_gpm | hrw, not in here: http://sicherheitsschwankung.de/gallery2/gallery/d/5705-1/IMG_8396.JPG (btw. is this minimo?) |
| 22:05.09 | hrw | http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/56329df942eab83c0db07dcdf252535c.png is what I have on device |
| 22:05.10 | balrog-kun | would be fun to see the screen rotate smoothly instead of entire 90 deg in one step like with randrrotation |
| 22:05.25 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=sajt@3e44a7d9.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 22:05.56 | thomasg_gpm | balrog-kun, but every animation takes some time. I dont like to wait until the device switches into landscape mode |
| 22:06.18 | balrog-kun | well, yes, this would be very heavy computationally |
| 22:06.32 | thomasg_gpm | hrw: you could do a video of your neo in action, I'd like to see the speed :) |
| 22:07.15 | thomasg_gpm | I haven't found a good "in action"-vid right now (in the wiki there's the a780/neo dial vid, but nothing else) |
| 22:08.27 | hrw | thomasg_gpm: its slow |
| 22:09.00 | thomasg_gpm | because of the slow processor? slow software? less optimized? |
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| 22:11.30 | hrw | slow cpu gives slow gfx |
| 22:11.43 | hrw | and theme use many pixmaps |
| 22:12.10 | *** join/#openmoko GvzEvxre (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 22:16.49 | thomasg_gpm | hrw: there is no coprocessor available (in the samsung bga package) for graphics? so all rendered in software, correct? |
| 22:17.24 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
| 22:17.41 | filippo | http://dev.eclipse.org/newslists/news.eclipse.dsdp.tml/msg00020.html |
| 22:18.27 | balrog-kun | thomasg_gpm: correct |
| 22:19.10 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:19.21 | hrw | thomasg_gpm: looks like gta01bv5 (so called p1.5) will have s3c2440/2442/2443 instead of s3c2410 so it will be faster |
| 22:22.45 | thomasg_gpm | yes, I read this. but 266 MHz seems to be realtively much (have a symbian device with a 220 MHz ARM and 640x320), so I ask if the software shouldnt be more optimized to the current hardware base |
| 22:22.57 | koen_ | naive |
| 22:24.11 | hrw | thomasg_gpm: ARM != ARM |
| 22:24.16 | hrw | some ARM cpus have better gfx, some have extra dsp unit... |
| 22:24.26 | hrw | some devices has extra gfx chips |
| 22:24.31 | *** join/#openmoko MrStaticVoid (n=jlee@resnet-237-154.resnet.umbc.edu) |
| 22:25.16 | hrw | for example older VGA zaurus models have ATI W100 or Toshiba for gfx |
| 22:25.20 | thomasg_gpm | hrw: but it is an arm9 which supports co-processors, so a additional graphics processor should be possible, or am I wrong? |
| 22:25.39 | koen_ | a co-processor and a gpu are 2 different things |
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| 22:26.17 | thomasg_gpm | not if the co-processor is a gpu (dont know what kinds of co processors are available) |
| 22:26.42 | koen_ | my statement covered that |
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| 22:27.53 | hrw | koen_: ~17 at your place? |
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| 22:28.02 | koen_ | 15:27 |
| 22:28.16 | koen_ | PDT iirc |
| 22:28.35 | balrog-kun | thomasg_gpm: it's possible to add a gpu coprocessor *for samsung* |
| 22:28.41 | balrog-kun | not for the board designer though |
| 22:29.00 | balrog-kun | unless some common bus is used |
| 22:29.45 | thomasg_gpm | balrog-kun, yes, I know. but the board designer could buy the soc with that gpu coprocessor |
| 22:30.05 | thomasg_gpm | shouldnt be sooo expensive, but would be useful |
| 22:30.11 | koen_ | it wouldn't |
| 22:30.17 | thomasg_gpm | why not? |
| 22:30.23 | koen_ | since you wouldn't have drivers |
| 22:30.36 | thomasg_gpm | ok, thats an argument |
| 22:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07EB89.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:34.26 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-152-060.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 22:38.36 | Sufflope | I am currently at ncurses compilation stage, 5 hours of build :D |
| 22:39.20 | Sufflope | but monotone push (or wathever the source sync is called) alone took 3-4 hours ! |
| 22:39.35 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 22:39.38 | Sufflope | (I have a 4mbps ADSL line) |
| 22:40.02 | woglinde | sufflope hehe |
| 22:40.18 | Sufflope | I hope there is some work for non-english translations so I didn't wait for nothing :) |
| 22:40.40 | koen | I can do a Engrish translation if you want |
| 22:40.51 | Sufflope | ? |
| 22:41.22 | Sufflope | I mean, I am willing to help translating OpenMoko in French, since it is the only way I can help Neo/OpenMoko |
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| 22:52.48 | *** part/#openmoko Utah_Dave (n=boucha@72-166-51-162.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 23:06.03 | *** join/#openmoko ghostisgray (n=grayghos@ool-43534734.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 23:06.25 | ghostisgray | still no release? |
| 23:06.36 | woglinde | counter |
| 23:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@vpn006049.vpn.utwente.nl) |
| 23:06.37 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1 guess: a week, 5 days 18:26:41 (12.769 +-12.8 days) (934,167) |
| 23:15.21 | *** join/#openmoko MindCrusher (n=chatzill@82.76.176.152) |
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| 23:51.23 | pjz | anyone know if the same hacker kit will work with future openmoko products? |
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| 23:55.15 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps not fully. |
| 23:55.20 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps not at all. |
| 23:55.31 | SpeedEvil | Some of them may not even be the same CPU family. |
| 23:55.41 | SpeedEvil | AIUI, they've said that as much as possible, yes. |
