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| 00:33.33 | empty_mind | how do i add a package to openmoko-devel-image i.e how do i ensure a package is built when someone types openmoko-devel-image |
| 00:36.53 | rwhitby | do you want to add it to *your* openmoko-devel-image, or *everyone's* openmoko-devel-image? |
| 00:39.38 | empty_mind | rwhitby, to *my* openmoko-devel-image to start with |
| 00:40.13 | empty_mind | rwhitby, once i feel package is stable will release it through projects.openmoko.org or however community feels |
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| 00:43.30 | rwhitby | empty_mind: just modify tasks/task-openmoko.bb |
| 00:43.39 | rwhitby | (don't forget to bump the PR) |
| 00:44.10 | empty_mind | rwhitby, sure |
| 00:44.40 | empty_mind | rwhitby, is tasks dir a subdir for build ? |
| 00:45.22 | rwhitby | It's in /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb |
| 00:45.45 | rwhitby | Note that if you are using mokomakefile, it will revert your changes forcibly on the next make update (it does a recursive svn revert) |
| 00:45.58 | theholyduck | :P |
| 00:46.03 | theholyduck | tg starts "today" |
| 00:46.12 | theholyduck | muhahaah |
| 00:46.29 | rwhitby | what really needs to happen is to work out how to add packages by a variable setting in your local.conf, so it doesn't get overwritten. |
| 00:46.59 | rwhitby | most of the other OE distros have a way to do that - I can't see a way in OpenMoko at the moment, but one of the OE experts might be able to tell you a way. |
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| 01:07.32 | rwhitby | CoreDump|home: I just set bootdelay to 5, and then get it via the ttyACM0 device over usb ... |
| 01:07.43 | rwhitby | (can even do this without debug board) |
| 01:08.11 | CoreDump|home | rwhitby: right, but "catching" the blasted u-boot prompt can be annoying ;) |
| 01:08.28 | CoreDump|home | with u-boot on serial you get to see the countdown of "bootdelay" |
| 01:08.45 | rwhitby | that's why you set bootdelay to a big number :-) |
| 01:09.18 | CoreDump|home | Hit any key to stop autoboot: 10 |
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| 03:51.44 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1649 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-taskmanager/ (5 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-taskmanager: use GtkIconView widget to show task list in a 3 colums style, still have some small bugs(show the items which are hidden by moko figner wheel and toolbox) |
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| 04:19.04 | anticw | counter |
| 04:19.05 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 07:40:54 (11.320 +-10.0 days) (749,148) |
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| 05:22.59 | pjz | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:23.56 | pjz | breaks because it's somehow (silently) failing to get portmap_5-26.diff.giz |
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| 05:37.30 | CM | pjz: I'll try to build it for x86 now and see how it goes |
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| 05:39.37 | rwhitby | pjz: you could download that file by hand |
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| 06:00.22 | CM | I got past the libelf bug(#264) manually, but stuck at ltrace(#397) |
| 06:00.47 | CM | Because it can't find -lelf |
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| 06:15.54 | mikesh | counter |
| 06:15.55 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 05:44:05 (11.239 +-10.0 days) (750,148) |
| 06:16.25 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] |
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| 06:32.08 | Any_Key | hi all |
| 06:32.11 | Any_Key | o improbability factor increased... |
| 06:37.59 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 06:38.24 | Any_Key | morning indeed |
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| 06:44.06 | rwhitby | CM: I rebuild openmoko from scratch on CentOS 4.4 just yesterday. And incremental builds on Debian Etch. |
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| 06:59.58 | rwhitby | koen: what's the recommended way to add packages to rootfs of an openmoko-devel-image? DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS or BOOTSTRAP_EXTRA_RDEPENDS? Is the bootstrap one deprecated, or is it used for a different purpose than the distro and machine and machine_essential one? |
| 07:00.20 | koen | it should be deprecated |
| 07:00.46 | rwhitby | so {distro,machine,machine_essential}_extra_rdepends are the set to use then. |
| 07:01.01 | koen | yes(*) |
| 07:01.19 | koen | (*) unless they only belong in one type of image (e.g. super-duper-wifi-image) |
| 07:01.23 | rwhitby | (only if the distro uses task-base, of course) |
| 07:02.01 | rwhitby | right - this is for an end-user to add to their local generated image via a setting in their local.conf |
| 07:02.37 | koen | in that case DISTRO_EXTRA_RDEPENDS would be the most fool-proof way |
| 07:02.58 | koen | (unless openmoko resets that somewhere....) |
| 07:03.28 | koen | brb |
| 07:10.12 | CM | rwhitby: I'm guessing it's because I'm on amd64 |
| 07:11.07 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57a2d86c.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:11.10 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:11.54 | CM | rwhitby: I've managed to build the fic-gta01 machine, but not x86 |
| 07:12.26 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] |
| 07:15.36 | hrw | morning |
| 07:17.50 | xkr47 | morning |
| 07:21.25 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at sunbeam.franken.de> Re: Access to some neo1973 hardware |
| 07:26.08 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1650 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-taskmanager/src/ (8 files): openmoko-taskmanager: delete some useless codes, and whitespace change |
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| 07:46.03 | sannes | counter |
| 07:46.03 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 04:13:56 (11.176 +-10.0 days) (751,148) |
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| 07:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko psokolovsky (n=psokolov@82.193.98.4) |
| 07:54.50 | _ASK | in english it is correct to say: |
| 07:55.13 | _ASK | The engine is composed, in general terms, of a ring-shaped sleeve, ** whose ** ends are joined to make a circular chamber, throughout which a curve piston moves. |
| 07:55.23 | _ASK | is it |
| 07:56.04 | bluelightning | _ASK: I think so |
| 07:56.11 | _ASK | thanks |
| 07:56.19 | bluelightning | if you aren't happy with it you could just say "with ends joined" |
| 07:57.00 | _ASK | well it's a pain in the ass to translate my patent to english not being a native english speaker... |
| 07:57.35 | bluelightning | I'm sure... English is a very silly language sometimes |
| 07:57.49 | bluelightning | plus with patents I've no doubt you have to be extremely careful about wording |
| 07:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 07:58.13 | _ASK | where are you from, by the way? |
| 07:58.20 | bluelightning | New Zealand |
| 07:58.26 | _ASK | so your native =) |
| 07:58.37 | bluelightning | I was born in the UK, moved here when I was 7 |
| 07:58.39 | bluelightning | so yes :) |
| 07:59.05 | bluelightning | where are you from? |
| 07:59.06 | _ASK | nice... mind if i give you a copy to get your opinion later? |
| 07:59.09 | _ASK | Mexico |
| 07:59.22 | bluelightning | sure, no problem |
| 08:00.41 | *** join/#openmoko em_a (n=em@130.192.76.236) |
| 08:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko Jeroen (i=jeroen@neonescio.viaisn.org) |
| 08:02.13 | kelvinn | bluelightening: where in NZ? |
| 08:02.41 | kelvinn | (I used to live in AKL) |
| 08:03.11 | hrw | kelvinn: New Zealand |
| 08:03.21 | hrw | ah ah |
| 08:03.27 | hrw | sorry |
| 08:04.20 | kelvinn | hrw: yea, variables tend to look the same when you get tired, don't they? :) |
| 08:06.16 | bluelightning | kelvinn: I'm in Auckland |
| 08:07.21 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178236249.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 08:08.33 | koen|lab | coffee?!? |
| 08:08.48 | koen|lab | they killed the watersupply to this building so we don't have any coffee |
| 08:09.11 | bluelightning | noooooo |
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| 08:09.28 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:10.13 | kelvinn | that's rough |
| 08:10.31 | koen|lab | (and no working toilets) |
| 08:11.31 | koen|lab | guess why I hate the CS building |
| 08:11.48 | koen|lab | the EE building has coffee and working toilets :) |
| 08:12.07 | XorA | koen|lab: thats coz EE people are cooler |
| 08:12.22 | bluelightning | input *and* output... ;) |
| 08:13.54 | WiggleCat | counter |
| 08:13.55 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 03:46:05 (11.157 +-10.0 days) (752,148) |
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| 08:22.28 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r1651 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/env_nand_oob.patch: common/Makefile: updated patch for latest upstream changes |
| 08:23.50 | *** join/#openmoko kart_ (n=kart_@59.161.36.96) |
| 08:24.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03werner * r1652 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: |
| 08:24.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Makefile: prepend "sh" to execution of board/neo1973/split_by_variant.sh to |
| 08:24.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: prevent recurrent permission issues |
| 08:26.22 | koen|lab | where 'recurrent permission problems' read 'noexec bit set' |
| 08:29.26 | mickeyl | 'orning |
| 08:29.43 | hrw | hi mickeyl |
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| 08:37.09 | _ASK | http://www.geocities.com/mikemex_ask/otros/torres_en.pdf |
| 08:39.12 | _ASK | (I would appreciate opinions on the translation quality of the document from native english speakers) |
| 08:42.11 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@achn-4db48c23.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 08:42.28 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1653 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/moko-digit-button.c: bug362,363,365,386, they are one bug. |
| 08:45.06 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 08:45.22 | _ASK | it's midnight here, but morning =) |
| 08:45.46 | Stephmw | it's _always_ morning when someone logs on, and goodnight when they log off :D |
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| 08:47.11 | _ASK | how sweet =) |
| 08:48.12 | Stephmw | it's certainly easier to remember than everyone's timezone |
| 08:48.34 | hrw | ~ugt |
| 08:48.45 | apt | extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 08:49.30 | _ASK | aha, mipslinux. |
| 08:50.22 | guaqua | ugt also applies to normal student time here where i live |
| 08:50.36 | guaqua | we always say good morning, regardless of the time of the day ;) |
| 08:50.40 | xkr47 | universal german time |
| 08:50.40 | xkr47 | ;) |
| 08:54.14 | _ASK | except that i'm not a newcomer by any means, i've been using IRC for more than 10 years; but i must admit, english networks are very different compared to spanish networks. |
| 08:55.06 | guaqua | english networks are pretty much the same as the finnish speaking networks :/ |
| 08:55.33 | koen|lab | hey mickeyl |
| 08:56.31 | *** join/#openmoko mattions_ (n=mattions@nat9054.ebi.ac.uk) |
| 08:56.42 | _ASK | anyway, i would be very grateful if someone checked this document for errors in translation (original is in spanish). it's very short and probably interesting. |
| 08:56.48 | _ASK | http://www.geocities.com/mikemex_ask/otros/torres_en.pdf |
| 08:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko Vitaly (n=vlrubtso@unaffiliated/vitaly) |
| 08:57.17 | mickeyl | woo |
| 08:57.21 | mickeyl | you're filing a patent |
| 08:57.25 | mickeyl | scary :) |
| 08:57.42 | _ASK | i already filed it |
| 08:57.55 | _ASK | it's just that i need to submit it to english speaking people |
| 08:58.11 | *** part/#openmoko mattions_ (n=mattions@nat9054.ebi.ac.uk) |
| 08:58.27 | Vitaly | counter |
| 08:58.27 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 03:01:32 (11.126 +-10.0 days) (753,148) |
| 08:59.13 | mickeyl | while I'm not a native speaker, I have written a lot of english material and to my eyes it looks pretty well! |
| 08:59.24 | mickeyl | (just read a couple of sections though) |
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| 09:02.21 | *** join/#openmoko LaF0rge (n=laforge@sunbeam.ipv6.gnumonks.org) |
| 09:03.23 | xkr47 | yo mickeyl, LaF0rge |
| 09:03.52 | koen|lab | hey LaF0rge |
| 09:04.07 | koen|lab | LaF0rge: did you see http://article.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.kernel/30907 ? |
| 09:07.25 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[Wishlist:PersonalWiki]] [[Template:Improve]] |
| 09:07.31 | mickeyl | hmm could that have any impact to our GSM connection? |
| 09:07.38 | mickeyl | (over serial) |
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| 09:09.04 | woglinde | counter |
| 09:09.04 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 02:50:55 (11.119 +-10.0 days) (754,148) |
| 09:11.21 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1654 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (history.c openmoko-dialer-window-history.c): bug405 |
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| 09:19.34 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-20-70.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:21.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1655 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (sms-contact-window.c sms-contact-window.h): |
| 09:21.38 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Use synchronized function to load contacts. |
| 09:21.39 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Get selected contacts by uid. |
| 09:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 09:28.20 | *** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 09:30.10 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1656 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/moko-digit-button.c: bug395 |
| 09:34.40 | *** join/#openmoko borg__ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
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| 09:39.29 | Any_Key | _ASK, interesting design, have you made a prototype? |
| 09:39.47 | _ASK | nope, i'm looking for funding |
| 09:40.33 | _ASK | this makes it easier to understand: |
| 09:40.35 | _ASK | http://mikemex.t35.com/anim.gif |
| 09:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 09:41.00 | Any_Key | it easy enough in description |
| 09:41.47 | CM | _ASK: Cool idea :) |
| 09:42.26 | CM | Will be a lot of war and tear on that spring thing though.. |
| 09:42.28 | _ASK | well, i'm pushing it because it can be a good part of the solution for global warming |
| 09:44.13 | CM | _ASK: I like this "project" better.. http://mikemex.t35.com/socionics/set22_14.jpg |
| 09:44.48 | _ASK | =) |
| 09:44.53 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (i=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 09:45.06 | pavelm | Heya, everyone. |
| 09:45.31 | pavelm | Is there any reason why openmoko-kernel@lists.openmoko.org is not mentioned on mailinglists page? |
| 09:46.17 | mickeyl | no, probably just overlooked |
| 09:46.20 | mickeyl | LaF0rge ? |
| 09:47.32 | pavelm | I guess I can just add it :-) |
| 09:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko Rince (i=rince@auf.der.geekcouch.de) |
| 09:50.48 | Rince | morning |
| 09:53.41 | pavelm | hello, rince |
| 09:54.24 | Rince | I am quite sad that the neo is not yet for the mass market since I lost my smartphone lsat week ;) |
| 09:56.21 | pavelm | Rince: You'd not want to replace your phone with neo. |
| 09:56.34 | pavelm | (not _yet_, anyway) |
| 09:57.48 | pavelm | openmoko needs to fix its certificates :-( |
| 09:57.50 | pavelm | Connecting to svn.openmoko.org|88.198.124.203|:443... connected. |
| 09:57.50 | pavelm | ERROR: certificate common name `sita.openmoko.org' doesn't match requested host name `svn.openmoko.org'. |
| 09:57.50 | pavelm | To connect to svn.openmoko.org insecurely, use `--no-check-certificate'. |
| 09:57.50 | pavelm | Unable to establish SSL connection. |
| 10:00.50 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 10:05.16 | Rince | pavelm: well - right now I need another mobile anyway, the questionn is just what kind of ;) |
| 10:06.35 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Development_resources]] [[Kernel]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Yeager]] |
| 10:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-162-087.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:08.51 | pavelm | rince: Siemens sx1; that runs linux, too :-) |
| 10:09.44 | Rince | doens't have umts ;) |
| 10:11.36 | pavelm | rince: nor does openmoko. |
| 10:11.41 | Rince | pavelm: I know |
| 10:11.44 | Rince | (not yet ;) |
| 10:12.15 | Rince | I guess within 18 months or so it will.. ;) |
| 10:13.02 | pavelm | rince: Get nokia 6233, then. Openmoko will connect to umts over bluetooth. |
| 10:13.19 | pavelm | rince: or get samsung i600 smartphone, and let's put linux to that. |
| 10:13.25 | pavelm | rince: It has hdspa, keyboard and is cheap. |
| 10:15.55 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg__ (n=thomasg@p57AFCBAF.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:16.42 | Rince | well - right now I am just looking for options (since I know I will buy a neo later), so I am just cruising around in ebay ;) |
| 10:21.14 | *** join/#openmoko elfstone (n=kvirc@ppp-82-135-72-46.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 10:22.50 | Psi_ | the neo fully supports the nokia batteries doesn't it? |
| 10:23.09 | *** join/#openmoko friede1 (n=fwolff@dsl-242-238-242.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 10:23.59 | mickey|bbl | only one |
| 10:24.01 | mickey|bbl | BL-5C |
| 10:24.10 | mickey|bbl | at least that's the only confirmed |
| 10:24.11 | mickey|bbl | one |
| 10:25.44 | Psi_ | damn, i have lots of them but i don't think i have any of that type |
| 10:25.50 | Stephmw | you can probably _fit_ a BL-4C in there... it's just a little thinner |
| 10:26.15 | Psi_ | i have lots of BL-C1 |
| 10:26.33 | Psi_ | and a BL-B2 |
| 10:28.57 | hrw | I use 3rdparty bl-5c in neo |
| 10:30.11 | pavelm | Wow, I got my own kernel bootingon neo, good. |
| 10:31.34 | pavelm | psi: I'd not dare charging nokia battery in openmoko. |
| 10:31.40 | pavelm | psi: temp sensor definitely is not compatible. |
| 10:31.48 | Psi_ | ah, hehe |
| 10:32.07 | pavelm | psi: That means it will _usually_ charge fine :-) |
| 10:32.58 | Stephmw | oh dear |
| 10:41.46 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lab (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
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| 10:46.12 | pavelm | Okay, bye for now. |
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| 11:03.25 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 11:09.57 | *** join/#openmoko RedDog (n=reddog@mastersword.de) |
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| 11:24.09 | elfstone | just a question.. the neo1973 already is produced and shipped to some developers, right? |
| 11:24.09 | aloril | elfstone: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:25.16 | guaqua | elfstone: right |
| 11:25.20 | zod | elfstone: some developers got phase 0 devices |
| 11:25.36 | elfstone | cool, so its not vapoware :) |
| 11:26.31 | elfstone | will the phase1-phone be able to run qtopia apps? |
| 11:26.57 | guaqua | not out of the box |
| 11:27.43 | *** join/#openmoko zween__ (n=zween@ASt-Lambert-153-1-93-13.w86-205.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 11:29.13 | kelvinn | I wonder if I could go down to FIC's headquarters and beg them for a neo... |
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| 12:01.25 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
| 12:03.08 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=sajt@dsl51B69EB0.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 12:07.07 | Any_Key | i'm running now openmoko on qemu as described in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_under_QEM under Debian Sid. I have to change slightly openmoko/env and openmoko/download.sh to make it run on Linux |
| 12:07.34 | Any_Key | in openmoko/env s/make=gmake/make=make |
| 12:09.42 | Any_Key | in download.sh changed line 34 to files=`lynx -dump $download_dir | grep http | sed "s,[0-9 \t\.]*$download_dir\([a-zA-Z0-9_\.-]\)[ \t]*,\1,"` |
| 12:10.51 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
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| 12:16.41 | roh | Any_Key yep.. that change for gmake is needed |
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| 12:22.15 | *** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.7.217) |
| 12:25.27 | Any_Key | roh, and lynx dont have -listonly option |
| 12:25.40 | Any_Key | onmy mashine of course |
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| 12:39.31 | pavelm | Bye for now... |
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| 12:59.25 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] |
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| 13:05.45 | xkr47 | http://mokki.dyndns.org/~mtiihone/nouveau-remember.png |
| 13:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 13:06.33 | mjr | :D |
| 13:06.46 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@sedova.highlink.ru) |
| 13:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 13:07.50 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 13:07.55 | koen|lab | "Intel denkt dat embedded systemen met een verbruik tot 200W gretig aftrek zullen vinden" |
| 13:08.09 | woglinde | koen yes |
| 13:08.24 | koen|lab | translation: "intel thinks that embedded system with a power usage of 200W will be very popular" |
| 13:08.34 | koen|lab | ugh, I can't type |
| 13:08.41 | Any_Key | concerning wheel in call history it may be better to reverse it behavior, scroll down - selection moves down |
| 13:08.57 | pH5 | wow, power saver. |
| 13:09.04 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 13:11.31 | koen|lab | now we know what mickey|bbl meant with "awesome power" in the new neos |
| 13:11.40 | koen|lab | a quadcore Xeon in your phone :) |
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| 13:20.11 | mikesh | counter |
| 13:20.11 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 22:39:48 (10.944 +-10.0 days) (755,148) |
| 13:20.29 | WiggleCat | cheese counter |
| 13:20.50 | antenagora | ^_^ |
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| 13:56.25 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] |
| 13:58.11 | koen|lab | "A camera is MUSTHAVE no matter what the resolution is (I prefer 2MP at least)" |
| 13:58.19 | koen|lab | how to contradict yourself, lesson 1 |
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| 14:00.07 | WiggleCat | s/TH/TNOTH/ |
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| 15:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko emacsen (n=serge@pdpc/supporter/sustaining/emacsen) |
| 15:27.02 | emacsen | I've heard that the GPS software on openmoko is non-free. What part is non-free? |
| 15:28.56 | aloril | binary library that deciphers stuff coming from chip (trough UART) |
| 15:29.10 | aloril | no doubt it will be reverse engineered (chip itself is dump) |
| 15:29.19 | emacsen | that seems crazy... |
| 15:29.29 | emacsen | it's just a library of a serial data stream? |
| 15:29.49 | XorA | the A part on AGPS is basically what it may do |
| 15:29.52 | emacsen | because it looks like the gps deamon itself is gpsd |
| 15:30.32 | aloril | yes, it just uses binary module to calculate chip raw data into actual positions |
| 15:30.47 | emacsen | that's truely stupid |
| 15:31.18 | aloril | chip gets just raw doppler or something like that |
| 15:31.58 | emacsen | that's really frustrating |
| 15:32.05 | Moo^^ | i assume binary blob has some optimized hyper secret algorithms ten |
| 15:32.07 | Moo^^ | then |
| 15:32.12 | Stephmw | makes it more easily replaceable though |
| 15:32.14 | aloril | yes |
| 15:32.23 | mjr | yes, it's a bit annoying, and may or may not have to do with US ITAR regs and stuff |
| 15:32.31 | aloril | Stephmw: yes, just decipher stream |
| 15:32.41 | mjr | anyway, I too expect it to be re'd |
| 15:33.12 | aloril | and use existing libre software to calculate position from doppler data |
| 15:33.50 | emacsen | well if it's about purposeful munging data by the satelites, those are "correctable", but it takes time to do |
| 15:35.07 | mjr | that's a different thing |
| 15:35.42 | aloril | emacsen: this is just raw data in unknown format (if dump chip, why add crypto?, doesn't make sense ;-) |
| 15:36.22 | mjr | yeah I find it unlikely too that the stream would be especially garbled, just in unknown format |
| 15:36.24 | emacsen | wow... that's all it is? oh, that shouldn't be hard to reverse engineer. just need someone a little smarter than me to examine the memory |
| 15:36.45 | mjr | (even if it is garbled somehow, then you just debug the library) |
| 15:36.49 | Stephmw | aloril: s/dump/dumb/ |
| 15:37.20 | emacsen | how's the phone otherwise? |
| 15:37.27 | emacsen | I mean, clear sounding, etc? |
| 15:37.37 | emacsen | (for those 10 people who have one) |
| 15:37.46 | aloril | emacsen: actually you can capture data going from/to chip too (just normal serial) |
| 15:38.31 | mjr | emacsen, heh, the p0 phones actually have a sidetone bug that'll reduce the aural experience quality ;) |
| 15:38.45 | mjr | should be fixed though |
| 15:39.15 | emacsen | "We expect our users to find the quality is quite high once their eardrums are used to the peircing noise." |
| 15:39.24 | mjr | and yeah, since it's a serial interface controlled by our completely free kernel, no problem snooping on the traffic |
| 15:39.48 | emacsen | I don't remember hearing much about the bug on the planet feed. oh well |
| 15:39.51 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 15:41.37 | mjr | well, at least it's just in firmware |
| 15:41.51 | mjr | though the gsm chip closed firmware, which is harder to upgrade |
| 15:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 15:43.21 | emacsen | the gsm chip firmware sucks but it's a different issue |
| 15:43.34 | emacsen | the binary driver is worse IMHO |
| 15:44.19 | mjr | it's a bit worse and a bit better in ways |
| 15:44.30 | emacsen | how is it better? |
| 15:44.43 | XorA | emacsen: I have phones and they sounds OK, but sound system is still in testing/tweaking |
| 15:44.45 | mjr | very much easier to replace with free code :] |
| 15:46.10 | pH5 | XorA: btw, I have a buzzing noise from the LCD in the left earphone speaker. I such a thing known from other p0 / pre-p0 devices? |
| 15:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko kart_ (n=kart_@59.161.7.226) |
| 15:47.25 | XorA | pH5: I didnt get a buzzing, but I do get a bit of static from the board |
| 15:47.42 | XorA | pH5: but I dont have very good method of plugging in headphones |
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| 15:53.43 | pH5 | I can slightly change the pitch and volume by drawing different things onto the frame buffer :) |
| 15:54.20 | emacsen | LOL |
| 15:54.36 | XorA | pH5: sounds like pretty much every PC I ever owned/used :-) |
| 15:54.42 | XorA | pH5: well ones with onboard sound |
| 15:55.12 | emacsen | XorA, have you ever seen a Sinclair computer from the 80s? |
| 15:55.27 | XorA | emacsen: my nick should give that clue |
| 15:55.54 | emacsen | just checking :) Remember how it used the same memory for video as I/O |
| 15:56.07 | emacsen | that was so odd... |
| 15:56.17 | XorA | emacsen: yup, slowed RAM access while drawing the frame :-) |
| 15:56.50 | XorA | anyway time for train |
| 15:56.52 | emacsen | wow I didn't realize that. that's sad |
| 15:57.17 | XorA|gone | emacsen: zx81 used the z80 to output the video, that was sick :-) |
| 16:03.58 | TRIsoft | gtg cu |
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| 16:16.02 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
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| 16:26.06 | robtaylor | emacsen: the Spectrum had an asic for drawing the screen, which was the major innovation.. |
| 16:26.25 | hrw | ULA |
| 16:27.04 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1177611784.dsl.bell.ca) |
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| 16:33.01 | robtaylor | hrw: i've never been clear on what the actual difference is |
| 16:34.03 | hrw | between? |
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| 16:44.28 | *** join/#openmoko tuxmaniac (n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac) |
| 16:44.38 | tuxmaniac | counter |
| 16:44.38 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 19:15:21 (10.802 +-10.0 days) (756,148) |
| 16:46.35 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@84-74-83-99.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:49.39 | Elrond | On what posting/mail is the current counter based? |
| 16:50.09 | MacNorth | i think it was sean's 'An Update' mail |
| 16:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko cjb_au (n=cjb@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 16:51.11 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 16:51.31 | Elrond | MacNorth - That mail AFAIK has no timeframe i nit. |
| 16:51.41 | MacNorth | yep, but the counter changed the same day :) |
| 16:51.50 | Elrond | ;) |
| 16:52.11 | Elrond | So aloril has some private infos. ;o) |
| 16:52.51 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:53.17 | MacNorth | heh, we all have our unique abilities to channel. i have a direct line with tesla, but he's pretty quiet these days |
| 16:53.38 | Elrond | :) |
| 16:55.09 | Hadaka | counter? |
| 16:55.10 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review; a week, 3 days 19:04:50 (10.795 +-10.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-14); 5 months, a week, 4 days (164.795 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (757,148) |
| 16:57.10 | tuxmaniac | Hello All. I get this error while building openmoko-devel-image. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13899/ |
| 16:57.13 | tuxmaniac | Any pointers? |
| 16:57.21 | koen | 0x3232343 |
| 16:57.31 | MacNorth | heh |
| 16:58.31 | koen | tuxmaniac: read line 26 thru 35 again |
| 16:58.51 | koen | the error message is *very clear* |
| 17:00.12 | tuxmaniac | koen, thanks |
| 17:06.02 | tuxmaniac | Installing cogito , git-core packages and doing a update alternatives does not solve the issue. |
| 17:06.16 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@53d82bea.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 17:06.30 | PBeck | hi |
| 17:07.10 | koen | apt-get remove git --purge? |
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| 17:10.19 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@87.76.43.115) |
| 17:10.40 | tuxmaniac | koen, nw this error. http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13900/ |
| 17:12.00 | koen | that looks like a bug in the openmoko files |
| 17:14.20 | tuxmaniac | koen, I will try make update , make setup and then see |
| 17:15.24 | thomasg | hm, I'd like to see a comparison photo of the neo and a modern nokia phone. does somebody have one? |
| 17:17.14 | thomasg | koen, I have see your flickr gallery. dont you have another phone? :) |
| 17:18.54 | koen | thomasg: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/356833001/ :) |
| 17:19.01 | hrw | thomasg: I compared to old nokia6210 and newer SE k750i |
| 17:19.44 | hrw | my friends can think. so they do not use nokia phones but phones |
| 17:19.55 | thomasg | koen, wheres the neo here? :) |
| 17:20.09 | koen | there's a little neo in all of us |
| 17:20.32 | hrw | thomasg: http://farm1.static.flickr.com/178/413643600_63c1b539fc_m.jpg |
| 17:20.46 | hrw | or better: http://flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/413643600/ |
| 17:20.52 | thomasg | hrw: thx |
| 17:22.25 | *** join/#openmoko cydork (n=vihang@unaffiliated/cydork) |
| 17:29.54 | MetaBookfoziS | hmm |
| 17:29.56 | MetaBookfoziS | cool photo |
| 17:30.02 | *** join/#openmoko Laster (n=Laster@103.Red-88-0-145.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 17:31.38 | SrRaven | im seriously wondering how you are gonna be able to protect the screen efficiently |
| 17:31.55 | hrw|gone | cu |
| 17:32.08 | SrRaven | I think the guys should pack in a bag that fits the neo1973 form pretty well so screen cant get scratches |
| 17:33.46 | pH5 | SrRaven: they already do. |
| 17:33.59 | SrRaven | serious ? Got a picture !? |
| 17:34.56 | pH5 | http://flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/in/set-72157594573486523/ |
| 17:35.35 | SrRaven | oh must have missed that |
| 17:36.16 | SrRaven | though I do not want to know of the hardcore geeks wearing it with a lanyard |
| 17:40.31 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:40.50 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1657 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (4 files in 3 dirs): |
| 17:40.50 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (set_type), (get_type), |
| 17:40.51 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (compare_types), (set_type_cb), (field_button_add_cb), |
| 17:40.51 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (field_button_remove_cb), (make_widget): Save VCARD specification type |
| 17:40.51 | CIA-16 | openmoko: parameters. Partly fixes Bug 400. |
| 17:41.06 | aloril2 | Elrond: I basically increased uncertainty, that how I read Sean's mail |
| 17:42.06 | aloril2 | either soon or several weeks |
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| 17:45.36 | *** join/#openmoko mindCrime (n=chatzill@216.187.233.42) |
| 17:46.25 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Hardware]] |
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| 17:48.55 | Sufflope | Hi everyone ! |
| 17:49.21 | Sufflope | any hint on how much the discount on P1 revision will be, for P1 buyers ? |
| 17:49.29 | *** join/#openmoko fjjfjf (n=fjjfjf@mauve.plus.com) |
| 17:49.57 | Sufflope | and when is it supposed to occur ? because if it's early June and if P1 is late April, I might hang on 1 more month :) |
| 17:54.23 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=fjjfjf@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 17:56.52 | mjr | Sufflope, yes well, p1 was supposed to be January :] |
| 17:57.29 | SpeedEvil | I think mid-late april is prolly best guess now. |
| 17:58.14 | mjr | he was wondering about p2 discount for p1ers and when p2 will come out |
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| 18:24.14 | Sufflope | neither in fact :D |
| 18:24.30 | Sufflope | I was wondering about P1+ (notation from wiki) |
| 18:24.38 | Sufflope | I won't wait till P2 :) |
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| 18:28.07 | loufoque | P1+ should be the same hardware anyway |
| 18:28.30 | loufoque | modulo bug fixes |
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| 18:37.38 | Sufflope | but the wiki talks about possible wifi ? that would be a killer feature |
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| 18:49.24 | SrRaven | how is wifi nowadays a killer feature ? Most modern mobiles come with wifi |
| 18:50.00 | roh | SrRaven but on most mobiles you cannot do really useful things with it |
| 18:50.10 | SrRaven | for example? |
| 18:50.32 | roh | syncml for example |
| 18:51.04 | SrRaven | which is what? |
| 18:51.06 | roh | on my moto they even closed bt down so i can only do syncml via gprs ... which is like the carriers want it. |
| 18:51.53 | roh | syncml is for syncing calender entries and contacs |
| 18:52.15 | SrRaven | yeah but thats for the buisness people |
| 18:52.24 | thomasg | does openmoko support standard vcards for managing contacts? |
| 18:52.31 | SrRaven | at least I know nobody who cares about such features |
| 18:52.44 | *** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de) |
| 18:53.29 | roh | SrRaven i really would like to have a reasonable way to sync and manage contacts on all my devices. which is not possible if they are closed down for the gain of big business |
| 18:53.58 | roh | re prom |
| 18:54.06 | prom | hey roh |
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| 18:54.20 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 18:54.34 | SrRaven | like im a 18 year old dude,the younger group of people that buy stuff.And I just compare what the openmoko delivers with what the Nokia N93 delivers....and I still dont see much of a use if your need the hardcore buisness man. |
| 18:55.11 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-162-087.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:55.48 | SrRaven | even the n93 has more usefull stuff like a easy access mini sd cartd slot,not like the damn openmoko |
| 18:56.02 | roh | SrRaven moko is mainly for people who recognize that they need more flexibility in their devices than any vendor currently delivers. e.g. you will have an app-manager where you can update and install applications to your phone for free and add own ones |
| 18:56.13 | DukeOfURL | I'd call myself hardcore, and I have no use for either a camera or video on my phone... |
| 18:57.08 | thomasg | roh, on all my nokias I have also an application manager, and can update and install applications for free |
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| 18:57.35 | thomasg | thats not the reason why I want to have the neo :) |
| 18:57.40 | prom | thomasg: but coding for symbian is a huge PITA. |
| 18:58.00 | SrRaven | well roh,the problem with that is that the Openmoko wont be mainstream enough to really become usefull |
| 18:58.05 | thomasg | prom, new versions of symbian are posix compatible |
| 18:58.07 | SrRaven | it may die such as other open source plattforms |
| 18:58.24 | thomasg | SrRaven, I'm pretty sure it wont. |
| 18:58.33 | prom | thomasg: that doesnt fix the bugs. the current devices still have bugs from two generations ago. ;) |
| 18:58.38 | roh | thomasg could be. but you have no source to the apps to update them with features YOU want ;) |
| 18:58.38 | thomasg | and does it really have to be "mainstream"-compatible? |
| 18:58.42 | Stephmw | SrRaven: that's a very harsh point of view considering the vastly different amount of time spent on application development between openmoko and * |
| 18:58.53 | SrRaven | well no offense,but I dont want to spend a load of cash on a device that may sometime become useless because of the lack of support |
| 18:59.03 | thomasg | prom, yeah, symbian is not as bad as windows mobile, but it isn't really good, too. |
| 18:59.17 | roh | SrRaven from the response we get i have more fear that we will have less problems selling it than producing enough in time |
| 18:59.18 | thomasg | and does it really have to be "mainstream"-compatible, SrRaven? |
| 18:59.21 | Stephmw | SrRaven: hmmm... so you've never had a win98 machine? |
| 18:59.29 | SrRaven | I did |
| 18:59.32 | DukeOfURL | I sat in a meeting this am and listened for 20min to people bitch and moan about Windows and Windows Mobile. If that's mainstream then leave me out. |
| 18:59.34 | thomasg | even nokias communicators or the blackberry devices are not mainstream... |
| 18:59.44 | Stephmw | SrRaven: or OS2.. or... or... face it, our society is comoditised... everything stops being supported eventually |
| 18:59.55 | SrRaven | I dont need it to be mainstream compatible,i just dont want to invest so much money for a 18 year old that may end being not very well supported |
| 19:00.11 | thomasg | SrRaven, you dont have to buy it. |
| 19:00.17 | SrRaven | I know |
| 19:00.36 | Stephmw | SrRaven: you'd be better off coming back in 18 months |
| 19:00.37 | thomasg | and maybe 18 years old guys who have not enough money to buy it are not the target group :) |
| 19:01.00 | cjb- | The big attraction for me with the Moko is the fact that it's opensource-ness is a good defence against becoming 'unsupported'-- /I'll/ be able to support it, at the very least. :) |
| 19:01.02 | DukeOfURL | heh |
| 19:01.02 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: with a live feed? :D |
| 19:01.03 | thomasg | and imho the price for the neo is very good. |
| 19:01.20 | SrRaven | well stephmw the thing is that I want to buy a new mobile around the time of september-december |
| 19:01.29 | prom | thomasg: actually i liked the windows mobile stuff. but i dont have more than playtime experience with it, so it might be just as buggy. |
| 19:01.39 | Stephmw | SrRaven: then you really ought to go for a more mature product |
| 19:01.47 | Stephmw | SrRaven: in the end you'll have to compromise on something |
| 19:01.51 | thomasg | another thing: a devices with an open os, well-documented and known hardware and no limitations is much more safe for future as any other device. |
| 19:02.00 | roh | thomasg yep. we should not compare to featurephones for kids and housewives. we are building a smartphone so wince/mobile and symbian are the competition |
| 19:02.02 | DukeOfURL | It's about control. Who here likes walking into a Cingular store and being told what you want? |
| 19:02.03 | SpeedEvil | SrRaven: IMO. Look over the wiki. Comment on any missing applications, or application features. Go away and check back in 4 months or so. |
| 19:02.36 | thomasg | roh, the focus of openmoko seems to be the phone functions, as they are in symbian |
| 19:02.46 | SrRaven | Well I guess only time will tell what kinda mobile I will buy |
| 19:02.57 | thomasg | I own a win mobile device (for work), and it isnt really concepted to be a phone. |
| 19:03.30 | thomasg | the old name for windows mobile (win ce) devices was "pocket pc". and they still are (well, pc is wrong ^^) |
| 19:03.39 | SrRaven | well than let me ask you guys,what do you want to do with openmoko? |
| 19:03.51 | roh | thomasg thats a thing about priorities. besides that we have already a lot of people wanting to write all kinds of apps for it |
| 19:04.00 | thomasg | SrRaven, I want to have an open os on an open platform, so I can do with it what I want. |
| 19:04.08 | SpeedEvil | SrRaven: Personally - I want a commoditised phone platform. |
| 19:04.27 | SpeedEvil | SrRaven: So that I can buy a phone, any phone, and install the same apps on it, from source. |
| 19:04.37 | SrRaven | hmm k |
| 19:04.42 | SpeedEvil | SrRaven: Some may not work on all phones, like on PCs. |
| 19:04.44 | thomasg | at moment I miss some connectivity in the neo, but there will be wifi, and hopefully there will be edge, too. |
| 19:04.45 | DukeOfURL | SrRaven: I want to develop apps for a niche market--apps that nobody else would be interested in. |
| 19:04.47 | Stephmw | To have a phone I can customise all the way down to the kernel |
| 19:04.50 | prom | SrRaven: what i hope to find in moko and the neo is a customizable phone platform. i want to be able to sync with linux, code apps for my personal use, adjust the interface to my personal preference... |
| 19:05.03 | thomasg | the p1 device I'll only buy for fun, for testing, etc. |
| 19:05.47 | thomasg | the connectivity and the speed of the p1+ devices will give much more opportunities |
| 19:05.54 | roh | thomasg you want to know what i want? a phone that just does the main app right for starters. phoning. which even is a problem it seems for most vendors. show me one phone which is not buggy and you are able to do anything against that |
| 19:06.12 | SpeedEvil | roh: Nokia 3330. |
| 19:06.23 | SpeedEvil | 'Works for me', pretty bug-free. |
| 19:06.36 | SpeedEvil | Of course, it doesn't do much else. |
| 19:06.43 | thomasg | yeah, the old series40 devices cannot have much bugs :) |
| 19:06.46 | roh | nope.. crappy ui, crappy hf (rf amp dies afaik, happend to some friends) |
| 19:06.47 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@168-103-68-55.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 19:07.15 | thomasg | but roh, its the same for me, I want to be able to do anything I want with my smartphone (the smart is important, because phoning is not all I want) |
| 19:07.22 | prom | as much as i enjoy the techsmalltalk.... i have a technical question for you guys. is anyone of you building on ubuntu edgy and has problems building glibc-intermediate? it complains about `pwd` being in LD_LIBRARY_PATH. and i didnt put it there. |
| 19:07.23 | roh | SpeedEvil besides that i cannot live with arbitrary limits on count of stored numbers, sms, length of strings and such |
| 19:07.37 | SrRaven | I guess i really comes down to what your standarts are |
| 19:07.45 | thomasg | and I fear, that the neo will have to stay my 2nd device, because I have to use my phone very often |
| 19:07.46 | roh | even a bug-free phonebook isn't there yet |
| 19:07.50 | SpeedEvil | roh: yeah. |
| 19:08.38 | thomasg | roh, do you know the Motorola Motofone F3? |
| 19:08.56 | thomasg | maybe the name is different outside of europe |
| 19:08.58 | roh | thomasg nope.. i have a v3i atm as main phone |
| 19:09.16 | thomasg | well, the motofone has a pimped 7-segment-display :) |
| 19:10.01 | thomasg | 3 functions: phoning, sms, contacts (or better: space for saving phone numbers) |
| 19:10.41 | thomasg | most digital watches have more functions |
| 19:10.44 | roh | thomasg seems to be the incarnation of featurephone |
| 19:10.44 | *** join/#openmoko telephono (n=telephon@p54b57f77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:10.53 | roh | http://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_motofone_f3-1794.php you mean, yeah? |
| 19:10.55 | thomasg | and I'm sure there will not be much bug |
| 19:10.58 | thomasg | *bugs |
| 19:11.10 | thomasg | yes, thats it |
| 19:11.35 | SrRaven | btw what about the typing on the openmoko (neo1973) ? Any solutions to speed it up software wise ? I read something about dragger or something like that yesterday |
| 19:11.50 | thomasg | SrRaven, you mean Dasher I guess |
| 19:11.56 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3ee3dec3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:12.38 | thomasg | dasher hasn't been ported to openmoko yet, but I'm pretty sure, that it will be available until the start of p1+ |
| 19:13.26 | SrRaven | yeah I meant htat |
| 19:13.28 | SrRaven | *that |
| 19:13.34 | thomasg | first it looked a bit ugly for me, but after some training it's really great. I'm looking forward typing my mails with dasher on the neo |
| 19:13.42 | SrRaven | because if the openmoko supports wifi so I can get my emails in school,I dont want to use a virtual keyboard |
| 19:14.11 | prom | SrRaven: then youre gonna have to use a bluetooth keyboard. |
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| 19:14.36 | prom | SrRaven: or use another phone. moko or not. ;) |
| 19:14.46 | SrRaven | :P |
| 19:15.21 | SrRaven | my friend has a mobile with keyboard and it has a word database and if you type a word it asks you if you mean that word and auto completes it,would be a solution just dont know if that exists open source |
| 19:15.49 | prom | SrRaven: that would be easy to do, no matter if there is something like that out there. |
| 19:16.03 | thomasg | dasher has a similar feature |
| 19:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5b07fc04.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:16.42 | SrRaven | yeah I saw that |
| 19:17.14 | thomasg | dasher has word databases for many langues and if you start typing a word, it sorts the following letters for the words you might mean |
| 19:17.32 | thomasg | and it works really good |
| 19:18.22 | prom | thomasg: do you know if it tracks your personal word usage? |
| 19:18.41 | thomasg | prom: it doesnt |
| 19:18.53 | thomasg | but if you write a text U can save the words you typed to the database |
| 19:19.13 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-notebook (n=marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 19:19.48 | thomasg | if dasher gets ported to openmoko (and I'm sure it will) there could be a feature which does that automatically, but its only one click at moment. |
| 19:20.07 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 19:20.34 | prom | thomasg: hm. actually, this might not be a good idea after all. the key locations would become more dynamic and it might be confusing. |
| 19:21.10 | thomasg | no, its alphabetical, not dynamic |
| 19:21.16 | pH5 | hmm. the dasher in OE is the cvs version from 20040828. I wonder if that still compiles... |
| 19:21.30 | thomasg | only the size of the following keys changes |
| 19:21.35 | koen | pH5: it didn't last year |
| 19:22.00 | koen | pH5: 'regular' dasher just sits there taking 100% cpu |
| 19:22.04 | thomasg | pH5, dasher site "Site last modified Tue Mar 6 15:38:30 GMT 2007" |
| 19:22.45 | thomasg | running dasher at full speed it takes 15% cpu here. |
| 19:22.50 | pH5 | koen: I guess then it is safe to assume that it won't work out of the box now :) |
| 19:22.58 | pH5 | thedaniel: 15% of what cpu? |
| 19:23.07 | thomasg | athlon64 at 1 GHz |
| 19:23.25 | pH5 | hehe. I have to see what this does to the 200MHz s3c2410. |
| 19:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 19:23.55 | thomasg | pH5, firefox takes 30% cpu at 1,8 GHz (full speed) sometimes on my machine. |
| 19:24.15 | thomasg | and I have firefox running on 233 MHz machines. |
| 19:25.33 | thomasg | maybe dasher can be more optimized. we'll see. |
| 19:25.46 | thomasg | but it is a very interesting concept imho |
| 19:25.56 | thomasg | and its touchscreen optimized. |
| 19:26.00 | *** join/#openmoko apol (n=apol@62.57.53.57) |
| 19:26.12 | thomasg | qwerty keyboards aren't |
| 19:26.21 | thomasg | even if they are on-screen |
| 19:26.41 | koen | qwerty keyboards are designed to slow down typing |
| 19:28.09 | thomasg | and typing with dasher is definately faster than using an on screen keyboard or a handy keyboard with t9 |
| 19:29.18 | thomasg | I'm getting a new one, too (conctract), but I dont know what to take. maybe I'll get the new nokia e65, and maybe I will sell it then :) |
| 19:29.46 | *** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de) |
| 19:29.53 | *** join/#openmoko cjb- (n=cjb@brushtail.apana.org.au) |
| 19:29.53 | thomasg | will wait for the neo and see if its good enough to be my primary phone |
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| 19:31.23 | *** join/#openmoko hoepen (n=hoepen@thor.hrz.uni-oldenburg.de) |
| 19:31.40 | philippe | thomasg: that's nothing. In my case all gecko based browsers lock up and go to 100% cpu... |
| 19:31.46 | prom | yeehaw. found my LD_LIBRARY_PATH fuckup. |
| 19:31.53 | philippe | seems gecko does not like mulithreaded machines |
| 19:32.07 | thomasg | single core, single thread here |
| 19:32.27 | thomasg | gecko doesnst lock up, but it uses too much cpu. |
| 19:33.33 | *** join/#openmoko telephono (n=telephon@p54b57f77.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 19:35.53 | thomasg | I wonder how long the battery of the neo will last while phoning (and having bluetooth activated, standby) |
| 19:39.25 | *** join/#openmoko billl_ (n=bill@iris.t-s.net) |
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| 19:44.20 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 19:55.43 | SpeedEvil | You mean actually on a call with a bluetooth headset? |
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| 20:25.17 | _ASK | I/O is *badly* written on gecko browsers |
| 20:25.33 | _ASK | for example, some days ago i couldn't download any file |
| 20:25.46 | _ASK | i closed the browser, restarted the machine |
| 20:25.51 | _ASK | nothing worked |
| 20:26.19 | DukeOfURL | make update-makefile; make update aborts: error: sqlite error: SQL logic error or missing database |
| 20:26.19 | _ASK | it ended up being that i had many entries in downloads.rdf |
| 20:26.27 | _ASK | and it couldn't add annother entry to the list |
| 20:26.38 | koen | _ASK: mozilla stuff is badly written <period> |
| 20:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 20:27.19 | _ASK | i just deleted the file and voila, problem fixed. |
| 20:28.18 | guaqua | do you know where the konqueror devs hang out? |
| 20:28.34 | guaqua | i have a few ideas for it..so i can leave opera behind :/ |
| 20:29.16 | koen | guaqua: #webkit? |
| 20:29.20 | _ASK | have you considered freebsd for openmoko? |
| 20:29.37 | guaqua | koen: webkit? |
| 20:31.15 | roh | _ASK i don't know if anybody has. but since its clearly not as portable and you would need to put a lot of work which is done already for linux again like building sth like jffs2 for example .oO(or a working arm port) |
| 20:31.35 | roh | besides that the most devs are more gnu than bsd people as far as i know |
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| 20:32.30 | guaqua | koen: i thought webkit and khtml were two separate projects |
| 20:32.50 | _ASK | bsd seems far better structured than linux; or at least less chaotic |
| 20:33.28 | guaqua | structured? |
| 20:33.35 | guaqua | isn't openmoko structured? |
| 20:33.45 | LarstiQ | counter |
| 20:33.46 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 15:26:14 (10.643 +-10.0 days) (758,148) |
| 20:33.59 | nbd | _ASK: i hope you're not talking about their kernels' structure |
| 20:33.59 | cjb- | Maybe relevent: Jim Getty's smackdown of the idea of using BSD in the OLPC: http://mail-index.netbsd.org/netbsd-advocacy/2005/12/08/0002.html |
| 20:34.10 | prom | _ASK: depends on how you look at it. also, in what way would you like BSD considered? as the OS for the device? this would be hard. the BSDs dont even have a flash-friendly filesystem. |
| 20:34.13 | nbd | _ASK: because i think that's complete and utter chaos |
| 20:34.18 | cjb- | (nothing like jffs2 in BSD, etc.) |
| 20:34.20 | _ASK | the development framework; freebsd is centralized |
| 20:34.50 | guaqua | _ASK: and openmoko isn't? |
| 20:34.59 | _ASK | openmoko is a layer |
| 20:35.02 | guaqua | no |
| 20:35.08 | guaqua | it's an operating system |
| 20:35.08 | thomasg | maybe the bsd (which one?) your talking about is more structured, because there are much less devices and other things supported and so the codebase is smaller |
| 20:35.30 | guaqua | there is a fundamental difference between "linux" and *bsd |
| 20:35.38 | guaqua | linux is a kernel |
| 20:35.44 | guaqua | bsd is an operating system |
| 20:35.57 | _ASK | yeah, it would just be a matter of adding the GUI |
| 20:36.02 | guaqua | or choose one flavor, doesn't make a big difference |
| 20:36.35 | guaqua | _ASK: no |
| 20:36.36 | thomasg | thats not correct. bsd is a licence and a synomym for a group of unix operation systems |
| 20:36.47 | _ASK | yes, but freebsd in particular is a software product |
| 20:36.49 | thomasg | and in the other way it might be an bsd kernel (e.g. freebsd) with the bsd tools |
| 20:37.14 | _ASK | with standarized releases and such |
| 20:37.14 | guaqua | _ASK: most of the work being done now involves the hardware - that would have to be done in *bsd too. same applies to the gui |
| 20:37.29 | thomasg | linux is only a kernel, and GNU/Linux is the gnu userland with the linux kernel. so its relatively similar to the free unices like freebsd, openbsd, solaris... |
| 20:37.41 | high-rez | was the gpio/irq problem worked out? |
| 20:38.00 | guaqua | thomasg: relatively similar if you want meanings for words |
| 20:38.04 | roh | regardless how you call it, bsd is and was aas far as i can see no real option |
| 20:38.18 | guaqua | very different if you want actual meanings and philosophies |
| 20:38.19 | cjb- | thom: "..." Solaris on an embedded device... >_> |
| 20:38.26 | thomasg | guaqua, correct :) |
| 20:38.49 | thomasg | cjb, well, solaris is available as the free opensolaris kernel, maybe someone might try it :) |
| 20:38.59 | thomasg | but I guess solaris wouldnt run on arm, would it? |
| 20:39.16 | LarstiQ | thomasg: tsk, what's a small hurdle? :) |
| 20:39.17 | mjr | not without work |
| 20:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 20:39.45 | _ASK | yes, linux and freebsd are like comparing roman law with common law |
| 20:39.59 | _ASK | in linux anything that gets thrown and wins acceptance becomes law |
| 20:40.06 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 20:40.33 | thomasg | well, ihmo the GPL is the "better" license for a kernel if there is a "better" licence. |
| 20:41.50 | thomasg | but thats definately the category: philosophy |
| 20:42.33 | _ASK | the problem is that there is a big difference between a professional judge and an amateur jury. |
| 20:42.52 | Sufflope | SrRaven : I didn't talk about wifi being a killer feature compared to other phones, but compared to phase 0/1 Neos |
| 20:43.02 | mjr | (to BSD) |
| 20:43.13 | thomasg | Sufflope, imho wifi on an opensource phone is a killerfeature :) |
| 20:43.20 | Sufflope | (sorry to talk again about this but I was away for awhile :)) |
| 20:44.13 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:44.28 | Sufflope | I definitely prefer having Wifi on that phone with that huge screen (almost no need for a laptop :D) rather than having a cheap camera to take lame pictures |
| 20:44.33 | high-rez | I think 850/1900/2100mhz HSDPA would be the killer feature. WiFi on a phone doesn't bring much advantage. |
| 20:44.51 | Sufflope | I am often in wifi-able areas :) |
| 20:45.49 | ewon | screw the camera, give me wifi any day |
| 20:46.09 | high-rez | Also people have to make a distintion between geeks and those who actually buy products. ;) Geeks like to war-drive. That's cool. Find an open AP yadda yadda. Average user says "i want to send this funny video to some pretty girl." - and not think about wether or not there is an AP close by. |
| 20:46.22 | _ASK | nope because in some places, like here in Mexico, data connection is not an option for most people |
| 20:47.47 | _ASK | my treo is running over a prepaid SIM and we don't even get the GPRS service |
| 20:48.20 | LarstiQ | high-rez: wardriving? Rather the wireless networks in hotels I stay in. |
| 20:48.20 | Sufflope | high-rez : won't you rather send this funny vid via wifi than via GPRS ? :) |
| 20:48.26 | guaqua | LarstiQ: so you are a konqeror dev? :) |
| 20:48.45 | LarstiQ | guaqua: no, what makes you think that? :) |
| 20:49.01 | guaqua | : |
| 20:49.03 | guaqua | :) |
| 20:49.05 | guaqua | okay |
| 20:49.31 | high-rez | _ASK: I bet you're in the minority of cellphone users in Mexico - in terms of how much you are willing to pay for a phone. In places where people can't easily get access to data services because of cost of availability, the chances are that the market in that area does not have substantial funds to justify users buying $350 phone. |
| 20:49.39 | thomasg | Sufflope, I'd also like to have EDGE, but we will see what the future brings |
| 20:49.55 | high-rez | LarstiQ: Point well taken. But you're on your laptop when in the hotel room anyways. ;) |
| 20:50.01 | _ASK | that's not the problem |
| 20:50.01 | guaqua | high-rez: bad arguments |
| 20:50.20 | _ASK | the problem is that most people runs on prepaid services |
| 20:50.20 | guaqua | high-rez: you are leaving geographical facts out of the equation |
| 20:50.20 | high-rez | Sufflope: Notice I said that I'd prefer 850/1900/2100mhz hsdpa over WiFi. I'm not talking GPRS. |
| 20:50.33 | _ASK | and they simply decided prepaid does not get data connection |
| 20:50.50 | _ASK | here it's not unusual for people to buy $350 phones |
| 20:51.09 | high-rez | ASK: Most GSM carriers who offer prepaid services offer prepaid data using platforms like Ericcson's Active Charge. |
| 20:52.04 | high-rez | guaqua: Explain. I don't understand. |
| 20:52.35 | guaqua | high-rez: a large country with bad cell coverage vs small country with good coverage |
| 20:52.58 | guaqua | you'd most definitely find more use of wifi in an area of bad cell coverage |
| 20:53.03 | high-rez | ASK: Ok, well that blows my argument away I guess. Actually, I guess I have seen this for myself. I've been to a lot of places where the GDP is relatively low, yet people always seem to have the latest gadgets (even moreso than the US where I am). |
| 20:53.33 | _ASK | put it this way |
| 20:53.51 | _ASK | 100 million country, 60 million phones |
| 20:54.01 | high-rez | guaqua: Not in my experience. :) |
| 20:54.18 | _ASK | about 50 million of those phones run on prepaid plans |
| 20:55.07 | high-rez | ASK: Just because prepaid in mexico (which seems shocking to me) doesn't offer data, that's certainly not true for the majority of large GSM markets. |
| 20:55.08 | _ASK | prepaid = no data. |
| 20:56.27 | _ASK | well, just poiting out that it varies greatly from country to country |
| 20:56.49 | _ASK | and that most consumers do not live in either europe or usa |
| 20:56.52 | Psi_ | mostly they just charge you an insane amount for the data :P |
| 20:56.56 | prom | .o(no data? that means no flashy j2me apps, no wap push.... and still expensive phones!? strange conception.) |
| 20:56.59 | thomasg | well, in europe are less prepaid users and they wouldnt use data options. |
| 20:57.19 | high-rez | Psi: No argument there. That insane amount pays my bills though :) |
| 20:57.49 | DukeOfURL | Time to talk about FSK modulation over GSM again? |
| 20:57.50 | Psi_ | heh |
| 20:58.01 | SpeedEvil | The right way isn't FSK |
| 20:58.10 | DukeOfURL | What then? |
| 20:58.15 | SpeedEvil | You take a vocoder, and drive it with a bitstream. |
| 20:58.36 | SpeedEvil | So it sounds like voice, but every phoneme packs lots of bits. |
| 20:58.58 | DukeOfURL | do you have a reference? |
| 20:59.08 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 20:59.13 | thomasg | sounds interesting |
| 20:59.14 | DukeOfURL | sorry... |
| 20:59.27 | SpeedEvil | I had complete logs of #openmoko |
| 20:59.36 | SpeedEvil | But I unfortunately lost them. |
| 20:59.46 | SpeedEvil | grep http.*pdf should find it. |
| 21:03.18 | thomasg | SpeedEvil, and its possible to recover the complete bitstream after encoding and decoding the "voice" with a codec like AMR? |
| 21:03.43 | SpeedEvil | The idea is that the codec in GSM is designed to code and decode voice. |
| 21:04.09 | SpeedEvil | So, you pretty much have to feed it a voice-like signal to not get nondeterministic behaviour in the presence of errors. |
| 21:04.17 | thomasg | but iirc AMR (which is used often) is a lossy codec |
| 21:04.41 | SpeedEvil | IIRC, they were talking about 2kbits/sec |
| 21:06.30 | cjb- | I keep confusing FSK with PSK... (PSK31/PSK63-- ham radio digital modes) |
| 21:06.34 | DukeOfURL | the codec is in the GSM chip or the radio? |
| 21:07.04 | roh | DukeOfURL in the gsm part which is capsuled |
| 21:07.22 | roh | afaik we only get the multiplexed serial and audio from the chip. no compressed audio |
| 21:07.32 | guaqua | cjb-: same here |
| 21:07.59 | mjr | yes, and the audio is even just analog, which complicates things a bit |
| 21:08.01 | roh | also makes no sense since data is much cheaper than keeping a line standing |
| 21:08.02 | SpeedEvil | You can't do PSK or FSK effectively. |
| 21:08.22 | SpeedEvil | The codec is _horribly_ lossy for them. |
| 21:08.30 | prom | roh: obviously not in some places. |
| 21:08.46 | mjr | roh, people who're insane enough to contemplate this are usually thinking of unlimited call plans between predetermined phones |
| 21:08.50 | mjr | which are available |
| 21:08.56 | mjr | locale-dependently of course |
| 21:08.59 | DukeOfURL | yup |
| 21:09.00 | SpeedEvil | Data on some prepay plans here costs 3 pounds a megabyte. |
| 21:09.04 | *** join/#openmoko T1 (n=tv@38.98.1.19) |
| 21:09.11 | SpeedEvil | And that's the average not highest prices. |
| 21:09.19 | roh | mjr even then the data rate would be extremely low such as 1200baud or less |
| 21:09.40 | prom | roh: also, voiceband modulation sounds like a nice geeky hack-feature, so i wouldnt mind someone implementing it. ;) |
| 21:09.53 | mjr | of course the rate would be small, yes |
| 21:09.54 | SpeedEvil | It's more like 2K/s, with the right codec. Annoyingly, I can't find the paper. |
| 21:10.21 | roh | prom someone could even port freebsd if they want. thats why we do open drivers and open up datasheets where possible |
| 21:10.47 | roh | ;) |
| 21:11.25 | prom | roh: yes. but that really wouldnt be good for anything. ;) |
| 21:11.34 | thomasg | its really a pitty, that the GSM part is under NDAs :( |
| 21:11.42 | guaqua | i wanna see that solaris running on neo |
| 21:11.54 | roh | prom thats why we will not trow money at it i think |
| 21:12.02 | prom | .o(OpenVMS on the moko *yummy* |
| 21:12.15 | thomasg | theres not much known about the GSM/GPRS features, is it? |
| 21:12.31 | roh | thomasg what do you wanna know? |
| 21:12.51 | thomasg | roh, well, for example which speech codecs are supported |
| 21:13.12 | prom | doesnt gsm have only one well-established codec? |
| 21:13.12 | thomasg | and monitoring features would also be nice |
| 21:13.20 | thomasg | prom, no, it doesnt |
| 21:13.32 | thomasg | there are some codecs and it depends on the phones support |
| 21:13.59 | thomasg | e.g. full rate, half rate, enhanced full rate, amr, amr-wb, ... |
| 21:14.11 | mjr | good question |
| 21:14.12 | roh | thomasg i know of no limitation there. even cheap featurephones do fr hr efr |
| 21:14.17 | mjr | but *shrug* |
| 21:14.42 | roh | i know of no amr on gsm in generic, but i can be wrong there |
| 21:14.51 | thomasg | roh, well, amr is much used in germany, and amr-wb will be this or next year |
| 21:16.27 | mjr | anyway, as for gprs, apparently class b, multislot class 10 |
| 21:16.30 | mjr | IIRC |
| 21:16.32 | thomasg | it also would be interesting if TI is able to offer an advanced chip of the one used in the neo which will be able to do EDGE |
| 21:16.40 | thomasg | mjr, I read sth. about class 12 |
| 21:17.12 | guaqua | edge would be nice |
| 21:17.12 | mjr | well, my info is not exactly first-hand |
| 21:17.15 | mjr | 12 would be nice |
| 21:17.17 | thomasg | the openmoko wiki: GPRS Class12/CS4 |
| 21:17.33 | thomasg | guaqua, edge would be perfect |
| 21:17.54 | mjr | if the wiki says so, it must be true |
| 21:17.57 | thomasg | theres no need for umts/wcdma, but at least edge should be supported in phase1+/2 |
| 21:18.54 | roh | thomasg i'm just reading about it.. i can check out if you really wanna know. but since we target markets worldwide we will propably do all we need to get it working everywhere |
| 21:19.46 | roh | thomasg we use ti calypso as you can see in the wiki |
| 21:19.53 | thomasg | roh: thats the good on edge: it of course is fully GSM-compatible |
| 21:20.11 | thomasg | roh, yes, I'm reading the TI page about it at moment |
| 21:20.21 | thomasg | and TI is offering 3 EDGE-ready chipsets |
| 21:20.44 | roh | thomasg edge is planned, but i cannot give you dates |
| 21:21.26 | thomasg | great news! |
| 21:22.01 | thomasg | because the size matters (^^): the edge ready bga-package is 12mm2, the currently used 10mm2 |
| 21:22.20 | roh | thomasg and licensing costs *cough* |
| 21:22.30 | roh | which makes edge a good next step |
| 21:22.51 | TimRiker | UMTS ? |
| 21:23.01 | thomasg | edge, wifi and maybe a multitouch will make the neo perfect :) |
| 21:23.14 | TimRiker | multitouch? |
| 21:23.15 | roh | TimRiker we will have to wait a bit for that |
| 21:23.16 | Psi_ | i camera would also be nice |
| 21:23.35 | thomasg | TimRiker, touchscreen which can recognize more than 1 touch at the same time |
| 21:23.46 | TimRiker | thomasg: funky. |
| 21:23.46 | roh | TimRiker i mean 3g |
| 21:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko Ganneff (n=joerg@kosh.ganneff.de) |
| 21:23.51 | thomasg | Psi_, camera would be definately optional for me, dont have a need for it |
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| 21:24.14 | Psi_ | im not just thinking about using it as a camera, there are other things you can use them for |
| 21:24.20 | Psi_ | like reading barcodes etc. |
| 21:24.25 | thomasg | and concerning umts: nice to have, but if edge is available not really necessary |
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| 21:25.37 | thomasg | Psi_, lets hope the neo will be successful, so we maybe can have some more and other openmoko devices by FIC :) |
| 21:25.46 | Psi_ | yep |
| 21:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko Ganneff (i=joerg@freenode/staff/debian.ganneff) |
| 21:25.50 | TimRiker | there are umts (ie: 3GSM) |
| 21:25.52 | *** part/#openmoko guaqua (i=che@lakka.kapsi.fi) |
| 21:26.04 | Psi_ | i dont expect them to cram everything into the first device :) |
| 21:26.06 | thomasg | TimRiker, what are you talking about? |
| 21:26.11 | TimRiker | devices/chipsets around. I have not yet looked at cost. |
| 21:26.15 | roh | thomasg take a look into the wiki. there will be more devices. we are just getting started |
| 21:26.20 | TimRiker | sorry, broke the line up... |
| 21:26.24 | thomasg | TimRiker, ah, now it makes sense :) |
| 21:26.28 | TimRiker | :) |
| 21:26.52 | thomasg | will, UMTS is expensive, costs much battery, costs space (additional chip required, or big bga package with gsm and umts in one chip) |
| 21:26.55 | thomasg | *well |
| 21:27.29 | TimRiker | thomasg: ugh. |
| 21:27.54 | roh | prom: how did you fix your edgy-build-problem? |
| 21:29.39 | prom | roh: oh, that was my fault. i had an "export LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/home/prom/Local/lib:$(LD_LIBRARY_PATH)" in my bashrc, and no LD_LIBRARY_PATH set. |
| 21:29.51 | roh | iek |
| 21:29.59 | prom | roh: and the configure script barfs about all relative and empty entries in the path. |
| 21:31.26 | prom | roh: eek indeed. on a real operating system, this wouldnt have happened. ;) |
| 21:31.46 | roh | prom did you build with oe head or at fixed position? |
| 21:32.09 | prom | roh: i am at the fixed revision right now. guessed this would spare me further troubles. |
| 21:32.25 | prom | roh: but this problem was the same for both. |
| 21:33.52 | prom | roh: a warning about this at some earlier stage would have been nice. |
| 21:34.38 | prom | i guess this could be done in the bbfile. |
| 21:34.46 | thomasg | roh, do you know if netmonitoring features will be available on the neo? |
| 21:35.33 | thomasg | e.g. for getting cell id's, levels, signal strength e.g. |
| 21:35.37 | thomasg | -e.g. |
| 21:36.16 | prom | thomasg: harald mentioned having this on his agenda. i dont know about the status though. |
| 21:36.38 | thomasg | I'm working for a carrier and this would be really nice |
| 21:37.03 | SpeedEvil | You do get signal levels - I'm not sure about the others. |
| 21:37.16 | DukeOfURL | whois thomasg |
| 21:37.18 | prom | thomasg: that would be nice for a lot of people. ;) |
| 21:37.32 | thomasg | if there would be (free) net monitoring features available we would buy neos for all field ops :) |
| 21:37.44 | pH5 | you get cell id's, too. |
| 21:37.59 | thomasg | nokia is offering net monitoring for the most older phones (not for series60 3rd edition afaik), but thats really expensive |
| 21:37.59 | DukeOfURL | thomasg what country? |
| 21:38.03 | thomasg | DukeOfURL, germany |
| 21:38.08 | DukeOfURL | k |
| 21:38.28 | SrRaven | <3 germany |
| 21:40.31 | prom | thomasg: yes, i still have a 6310i for that.... |
| 21:41.14 | roh | thomasg the basic things are avail in the gsmd already. i've seen events from the phone with cellids and signal levels inside |
| 21:42.00 | DukeOfURL | I didn't see any AT comands to get that info |
| 21:42.52 | prom | DukeOfURL: as far as i got told, the AT channel is only one out of severl multiplexed channels. |
| 21:42.54 | roh | *fsck* ... i killed my flash-partitiontable *sigh* need to get my debugboard tomorrow |
| 21:42.57 | prom | several even |
| 21:43.00 | pH5 | DukeOfURL: CSQ and CREG |
| 21:43.21 | prom | roh: btw... what was the problem with our bugboards? would be nice to fix them. |
| 21:43.26 | roh | prom as soon as we have the line-discipline up yes |
| 21:43.27 | prom | s/nice/cool/ |
| 21:43.41 | prom | .o(WTF!?) |
| 21:43.50 | prom | cool feat. |
| 21:44.38 | roh | prom the linux flasher garbles eeprom contents somehow and there seem to be hw-problems with some of them which lead to staying in the (default) config with ftdi-usbids |
| 21:44.43 | DukeOfURL | Will the gsmd process initialize the GSM hardware, or will that be done during init? |
| 21:45.13 | thomasg | prom, we use series60 2nd ed. with celltrack as normal phones and 6650 with nokias net monitor for testing purposes |
| 21:45.20 | roh | DukeOfURL gsmd takes care of that (not that there is much to do besides power on, and throw AT-commands at it |
| 21:45.36 | prom | roh: nkay. so there are two problems? one with ftdi_util or whatsitcalled and one with the layout? |
| 21:45.50 | DukeOfURL | is gsmd in userland? |
| 21:45.54 | prom | it is. |
| 21:45.56 | roh | i dunno if it's layout or even part-tolerances |
| 21:46.45 | roh | DukeOfURL yes. its the 'manager' of connection, state and any infos about gsm. every app which does sth. with gsm talks to it to communicate with the gsm modem |
| 21:47.04 | prom | roh: kay. is there a writeup about it or will i have to find things out myself? |
| 21:47.26 | roh | prom there is a bugtracker entry afaik.. mompls.. i'll find out |
| 21:47.57 | roh | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=321 |
| 21:48.32 | thomasg | is the bootloader of openmoko able to let the user choose between different operating systems? |
| 21:48.46 | thomasg | e.g. the openmoko on the device and a linux distro on the sd? |
| 21:49.12 | roh | prom there is a windows-tool for flashing the eeprom which should not garble the eeprom, but the issue that the ftdi somehow does not like the eeprom or resets again after reading it remains |
| 21:49.39 | roh | thomasg yes. you already can use it to do that |
| 21:49.56 | thomasg | great |
| 21:49.57 | roh | the kernel on the sd then needs support for it compiled in;) |
| 21:49.59 | prom | roh: the flashing shouldnt be a problem. i have a little tool somewhere that does this with an AVR hooked to a serial. |
| 21:50.16 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-016.eplus-online.de) |
| 21:50.28 | thomasg | thats really cool because so I will be able to use the phone "productive" and play around with the os on the SD :) |
| 21:50.29 | *** join/#openmoko Ganneff (i=joerg@freenode/staff/debian.ganneff) |
| 21:51.03 | roh | thomasg all the menuentrys are just configs which are set as 'script' of uboot-commands and a label, so you even could add a boot vxworks (since uboot can do that by default) |
| 21:51.51 | roh | prom it would be nice to fix both problems, but propably not at the same time |
| 21:52.34 | prom | roh: ill investigate that tomorrow. |
| 21:56.47 | cjb- | Are there any anti-bricking ability/features intended for the 'release' device? (..which don't need the debug board or JTAG..?) |
| 21:58.03 | prom | cjb: there is factory reset. and there will probably be flash locks. no true de-bricking. |
| 21:58.13 | roh | cjb- the debug-connector will stay, and as long as you do not brick u-boot you are fine |
| 21:59.46 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:00.20 | *** join/#openmoko zwnj (n=behnam@213.207.210.231) |
| 22:02.35 | cjb- | (take a guess at who experienced OpenWRT's kamikaze firmwire on his Linksys...) |
| 22:02.36 | prom | cjb: *cough* ;) |
| 22:03.17 | cjb- | I had to travel ~300kms by train to a friend's who had a wiggler. :/ |
| 22:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko MDK_ (n=mdk@cs181209253.pp.htv.fi) |
| 22:04.55 | prom | cjb: probably no big deal to get it working. that would indeed be cool. |
| 22:05.32 | prom | especially since the resolution is just perfect. and the scumm interfaces would seem pretty pen-friendly. |
| 22:06.33 | SrRaven | Im also thinking about opendos |
| 22:06.39 | SrRaven | but dont know how successfull that will be |
| 22:06.56 | roh | SrRaven its open.. you can do (nearly) everything you want |
| 22:07.53 | SrRaven | if you have the skills,which I dont |
| 22:08.59 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@81.198.61.143) |
| 22:10.46 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 22:17.12 | prom | SrRaven: opendos contains assembly, iirc. you could run it in qemu. ;) |
| 22:17.21 | SrRaven | me dumb |
| 22:17.23 | SrRaven | me run windows |
| 22:21.49 | thomasg | SrRaven, maybe thats the reason why you can't understand the advantages of openmoko :) |
| 22:22.49 | SrRaven | true that,Im into all the linux stuff but just didnt get to switching yet.Because of my interest in Linux I know of the openmoko. |
| 22:23.37 | thomasg | well, I have to go to bed now. gn8 |
| 22:23.45 | SrRaven | n8 |
| 22:24.19 | *** join/#openmoko dirakx (n=pilar@69.79.145.81) |
| 22:26.48 | *** join/#openmoko klam (n=vczx@s142-179-166-27.ab.hsia.telus.net) |
| 22:28.39 | klam | need these gone 2 dell xps m1710 350 for one 500 for 2, 1 apple macbook black for 600 MSN Solutions1981@hotmail.com or aim: solutions1981 |
| 22:29.23 | SrRaven | someone gline him |
| 22:31.47 | tigert | klam: throw them out of the window? |
| 22:31.59 | tigert | solves the problem nicely |
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| 23:48.49 | dho | balrog-kun: ping! |
| 23:54.55 | balrog-kun | dho: pong, hi |
| 23:55.43 | dho | balrog-kun: http://databits.net/~dho/openmoko/openmoko5.jpg |
| 23:56.05 | balrog-kun | dho: yay! |
| 23:56.05 | dho | I had do to a lot of icky hacks, echo has to be gecho and stat has to be gstat |
| 23:56.09 | balrog-kun | dho: i suspect the script malfunction on freebsd was due to "echo" working differently |
| 23:56.12 | dho | but that stat / python thing doesn't work anyway |
| 23:56.13 | balrog-kun | ah okay |
| 23:56.14 | dho | well |
| 23:56.21 | dho | Yes and no |
| 23:56.25 | balrog-kun | i never knew that "gecho" or "gstat" existed |
| 23:56.33 | dho | coreutils as a part of ports |
| 23:56.38 | dho | The uboot scripts don't all work |
| 23:56.44 | dho | the first commands are frequently truncated |
| 23:57.07 | dho | like setenv dontask y would be interpreted as etenv dontask y |
| 23:57.19 | balrog-kun | the front part is truncated you mean? |
| 23:57.19 | dho | yeah. |
| 23:57.42 | dho | So I just duplicated id. I wasn't sure if more enters in front would help, but it seemed to be largely timing related |
| 23:57.43 | balrog-kun | ah, yes i saw that too, once.. will need to think of some better way.. |
| 23:57.59 | dho | ie. sometimes it was more off than others |
| 23:58.26 | dho | also, if it should be bsd friendly, s,/bin/bash,`env bash`, |
| 23:58.29 | dho | or `which bash` |
| 23:58.43 | balrog-kun | yes, the script is not entirely safe, i need to make the shell also *read* the output of u-boot and react accordingly |
| 23:58.53 | dho | bash will be in /usr/local/bin on FreeBSD and /usr/pkg/bin in anything using pkgsrc |
| 23:59.13 | balrog-kun | uhm, right, i forgot |
| 23:59.41 | dho | There could be something like |
| 23:59.48 | balrog-kun | it would be perhaps easy to supply a separate script for *BSD and BSDmakefile |
| 23:59.54 | balrog-kun | *easier |
