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| 00:16.31 | aevin | SpeedEvil: «Orange World»? |
| 00:20.41 | SpeedEvil | Data service from the mobile provider 'orange'. |
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| 00:25.32 | aevin | SpeedEvil: okay. that's not a world I'm familiar with. |
| 00:27.11 | SpeedEvil | Just trying to work out if it's a walled garden or not - it's not clear. |
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| 01:31.35 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1611 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/callbacks.c: Bug 348 "openmoko-messages crashes in 'New SMS' dialog" patch. |
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| 02:33.25 | DukeOfURL | counter |
| 02:33.25 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 16:43:17 (5.697 +-5.7 days) (717,139) |
| 02:37.47 | jaebird | :) |
| 02:43.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Template:Languages]] [[User:Myoldryn]] [[Translation]] |
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| 03:08.35 | ping_tu | how can i get sha256sum? |
| 03:09.48 | rwhitby | you host distribution should have it in one of it's packages. |
| 03:10.44 | ping_tu | i run makefile, it prompt no this file |
| 03:11.51 | ping_tu | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:12.00 | rwhitby | http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro should have been updated by the OE core team to identify which package is required on each distro to get that. |
| 03:12.18 | rwhitby | If not, please research that for your distro and update that wiki page. |
| 03:12.34 | ping_tu | OK, thanks |
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| 03:32.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction/ee]] [[Main_Page/ee]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[User:Barnasc]] [[User_talk:Barnasc]] [[Wishlist:Mesh_Networking]] [[Wish_List]] |
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| 03:41.50 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r64 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/series: Removed openmoko-mirrors (already done upstream) and silence-retrieved-versions (henryk is going to commit that upstream) patches in an attempt to stop the bitbake cache rebuild on update |
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| 04:29.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/ee]] [[Introduction/ee]] |
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| 04:38.25 | cw666 | counter |
| 04:38.25 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 15:40:47 (5.653 +-5.7 days) (718,140) |
| 04:39.08 | empty_mind | are we on time for phase zero phone ? |
| 04:40.17 | cw666 | those are gone ages ago |
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| 05:44.56 | Rakshasa | Mornin' all. |
| 05:52.44 | CM | Morning :) |
| 05:52.52 | Rakshasa | Hummmm.. Is the price for neo1973 in Europe going to be just ~260 euros? Or is there going to be some custom currency conversion from 350 USD -> XXX EUR? |
| 05:52.54 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 05:53.40 | CM | I haven't heard anything besides $350, so I hope it will be a fair exchange into euros |
| 05:55.01 | Rakshasa | Kewl.. ^^ I first feared it was going to be some 350 euros before checking the exchange rate and that sounded a bit expensive. |
| 05:57.21 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 06:26.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-community: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> An Update |
| 06:29.12 | Vitaly | counter |
| 06:29.12 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 14:45:24 (5.615 +-5.6 days) (719,140) |
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| 06:35.28 | aloril | (script) openmoko-announce: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> [openmoko-announce] An Update |
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| 06:39.27 | koen | http://people.openmoko.org/sean/pictures/gta01b_v4_front.png |
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| 06:44.54 | Rakshasa | darn delays. =/ |
| 06:45.09 | Rakshasa | s/hos/his/ |
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| 06:51.47 | rwhitby | (if there is a hardware problem that requires a respin) |
| 06:54.22 | Rakshasa | Must be an april fool's joke... Aren't the images named the wrong way round - Front is back and vice-versa. XP |
| 06:54.38 | rwhitby | Rakshasa: no, they are the correct way around. |
| 06:55.08 | rwhitby | oh, no, you're right - they are the wrong way around. |
| 06:55.15 | Rakshasa | lol |
| 06:55.43 | rwhitby | I guess it depends whether you're taking a "packaged phone" point of view or a "PCB" point of view. |
| 06:55.52 | rwhitby | the names are correct from a PCB point of view. |
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| 06:59.05 | Rakshasa | True, although a bit fuzzy, it being printed on both sides... |
| 07:04.31 | rwhitby | mickeyl: ping - can you remove the 'oa' stuff from site.conf? Harald said in the bugzilla entry that it shouldn't be there, but he didn't remove it. |
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| 07:09.45 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1612 10/trunk/oe/conf/site.conf: |
| 07:09.45 | CIA-16 | openmoko: oe/conf: remove OpenAlchemy out of public repository |
| 07:09.45 | CIA-16 | openmoko: NOTE: reverted this locally on buildhost |
| 07:10.44 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1613 10/trunk/oe/conf/site.conf: oe/conf: remove unused stuff from site.conf |
| 07:11.43 | mickeyl | rwhitby: sure thing, sorry. |
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| 07:16.51 | aloril | hmm.. counter already had a bit 'extra' time at upper limit ;-) |
| 07:17.28 | rwhitby | mickeyl: thx |
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| 07:19.04 | Psi_ | personally i feel that if they said "screw it, well just merge phase 1 and phase 1+ together" i would be fine with it |
| 07:21.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 07:21.32 | Psi_ | *we'll |
| 07:22.51 | Psi_ | yes, we all agree, i think, that we are happy to wait until they fix the bugs |
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| 07:24.14 | balrog-kun | i think we all agree that we have no other choice :p |
| 07:24.23 | Psi_ | hehe |
| 07:25.01 | Psi_ | yeah, but we aren't upset about the delays, we all want a stable phone :) |
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| 07:26.56 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 07:27.08 | Psi_ | TRIsoft, checked your email? |
| 07:27.35 | TRIsoft | Psi_: Not yet, just booting the company :-) |
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| 07:32.02 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1614 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/ (moko-gsm-conn.c moko-gsm-conn.h openmoko-panel-gsm.c): put gsm gprs signal status image into GtkHbox, which use to realize dynamic image show. |
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| 07:38.51 | WiggleCat | counter |
| 07:38.51 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 14:10:34 (5.591 +-5.6 days) (720,140) |
| 07:39.11 | CM | Guess that one needs to be updated a bit.. |
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| 07:44.28 | _ASK_ | does someone know what the overall goal of the project is? |
| 07:44.35 | _ASK_ | what a 1.0 openmoko will have? |
| 07:46.58 | mickeyl | the goal is a complete mobile phone software stack.... |
| 07:47.05 | mickeyl | including a comprehensive set of apps |
| 07:47.13 | _ASK_ | but the specification sof such stack are... |
| 07:47.22 | CM | In the wiki? |
| 07:47.55 | mickeyl | well, we are not interested in GSM specs |
| 07:48.03 | mickeyl | as long as we have access to AT commands |
| 07:48.07 | mickeyl | so don't misinterpret that |
| 07:48.30 | _ASK_ | no, i mean |
| 07:48.40 | _ASK_ | is there a plan to sync information with a desktop pc? |
| 07:48.53 | mickeyl | i think so |
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| 07:48.57 | mickeyl | synching is an important field |
| 07:49.00 | _ASK_ | things like that |
| 07:50.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1615 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/ (moko-gsm-conn.c openmoko-panel-gsm.c): whitespace changes |
| 07:50.19 | _ASK_ | but is there something written? |
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| 07:52.07 | mickeyl | text in the wiki |
| 07:52.09 | mickeyl | code in svn |
| 07:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549b9f26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:52.26 | mickeyl | it's not a speciifcations project |
| 07:52.29 | mickeyl | it's more about coding :) |
| 07:53.25 | _ASK_ | please... that's the biggest mistake in open source; to code just to see what happens... |
| 07:54.07 | _ASK_ | open sorce != chaos. |
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| 07:55.14 | mickeyl | well |
| 07:55.21 | mickeyl | please do a bit more research about the OpenMoko project |
| 07:55.37 | _ASK_ | i'm asking, because i don't see much in the wiki |
| 07:55.37 | mickeyl | you will learn how the project runs then |
| 07:55.50 | mickeyl | see openmoko.org |
| 07:56.00 | mickeyl | see openmoko.com |
| 07:58.28 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 07:58.39 | xkr47 | hi mickeyl |
| 07:58.48 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1616 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/src/openmoko-panel-gsm.c: gtk warning fix |
| 07:59.34 | mickeyl | cheers XorA, hi xkr47 |
| 08:00.12 | _ASK_ | i really feel sick sometimes; when people forgets the past and repeat the same mistakes. |
| 08:00.32 | rwhitby | _ASK_: do you really think that attitude is the best way to influence people running this project? |
| 08:01.10 | _ASK_ | not the best, bur certainly the most clear |
| 08:01.37 | rwhitby | Perhaps a better way would be to create skeleton wiki pages with the specifications you are looking for, and help the developers to agree on and fill in and comply with such specifications? |
| 08:01.54 | _ASK_ | i'm doing exactly that |
| 08:02.01 | _ASK_ | i just don't complain, i work |
| 08:02.23 | rwhitby | excellent. glad to see you're part of the solution. |
| 08:03.20 | *** join/#openmoko bh1 (n=bh1@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 08:03.22 | rwhitby | can you point me to the pages? I'm interested in seeing what level of specifications you're looking at ... |
| 08:03.52 | rwhitby | (or just give me your WikiName and I can search for myself) |
| 08:04.01 | _ASK_ | this project is very important because a) it's the first time handheld devices get truly open and b) because working in a new platform is an opportunity to build things right from the ground up |
| 08:04.37 | rwhitby | Yep, that's a statement that I doubt anyone would argue with. |
| 08:06.07 | _ASK_ | so my point is very simple: just give it an structure, a set of clearly defined standards that people will need to follow; i know it's limiting, but without standarization software never becomes a finished product |
| 08:07.20 | rwhitby | I'm not sure anyone would disagree with that either. The point is which standards are the most important to do first, given the limit developer resources? |
| 08:07.56 | _ASK_ | well, i was wondering if a proposal for the GUI is already done |
| 08:08.08 | _ASK_ | it's something I would like to work in |
| 08:08.30 | koen|lab | it's in the wiki |
| 08:08.36 | rwhitby | _ASK_: there seems to be plenty of GUI design pages on the wiki, in great detail, including widget operations and layout. |
| 08:08.40 | koen|lab | how many more times do we have to repeat that!?!?!? |
| 08:08.46 | _ASK_ | where? |
| 08:08.46 | koen|lab | wki |
| 08:08.47 | koen|lab | wiki |
| 08:08.56 | koen|lab | it has a search field |
| 08:09.05 | _ASK_ | oh, not at widget level |
| 08:09.10 | _ASK_ | but more on a system level |
| 08:09.53 | rwhitby | _ASK_: you're looking for something higher level than http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel I guess |
| 08:10.41 | rwhitby | _ASK_: have you read the archives of the mailing lists where dbus and corresponding system-level things have been discussed? Perhaps you can summarise that to a wiki page if that's the level of standardisation you are looking for? |
| 08:11.22 | _ASK_ | oh, I really think we have very different things in mind |
| 08:11.49 | _ASK_ | i'll set an example |
| 08:12.02 | rwhitby | ok, a pointer to that skeleton page you said you'd already started working on would be good at this point then ... |
| 08:12.45 | _ASK_ | palm os has a "launcher", which is something like the window manager, a command bar, a preferences panel |
| 08:13.04 | _ASK_ | an application can either be part of the launcher, or can be hidden from it and reside on the preferences panel |
| 08:13.11 | rwhitby | ("system" means something to everyone at every level of the design hierachy. the guy who designed the GSM chip designed a "system", as did everyone else at each level above him. |
| 08:13.44 | _ASK_ | it can also be configured in such a way it can be launcher from the command bar |
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| 08:14.03 | _ASK_ | those details might sound simple |
| 08:14.17 | _ASK_ | but a handheld is a different concept compared to a desktop computer |
| 08:14.27 | rwhitby | those sound like the top panel area and footer area, plus some conventions for use? |
| 08:15.01 | _ASK_ | yes, it's just a matter to reach and agreement and write it down |
| 08:15.28 | _ASK_ | but i feel the project largely lacks an end user "vote" in the election |
| 08:16.33 | rwhitby | _ASK_: when you start the conversation with a confrontational "you guys are doing it all wrong" approach, you're bound to get the type of response that koen gave you. if you started with that example, and asked where you could help write down the current decisions and move forward from there, you're likely to get a better response ... |
| 08:16.57 | _ASK_ | well, sorry, i don't wish to be arrogant |
| 08:17.46 | rwhitby | "when people forgets the past and repeat the same mistakes" can be taken that way - since IRC text lacks the other 80% of communication subtlety. |
| 08:18.02 | Magon | mickeyl: is there any Dbus concept or we yet have to develop one |
| 08:18.16 | _ASK_ | i just want to call attention to important things, because there are a lot of developers, and i've seen lots of examples for years, who focuse too much on technical stuff forgoting about more general things |
| 08:18.29 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page/ee]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Introduction/ee]] |
| 08:19.16 | _ASK_ | just yesterday i remember someone on the channel saying "i don't want to align with any rules, i just want to code" |
| 08:19.25 | rwhitby | _ASK_: here's the thing about developers - you need to gain their trust/respect first, and then influence them with reasoned discussions. |
| 08:19.43 | mickeyl | Magon: dunno what you mean with concept, however we want to supply anything where it makes sense with a dbus interface to make things scriptable and remote controllable. the most interesting part of the dbus interface is the forthcoming neod (neo daemon). i expect to start with working on the API next week |
| 08:20.21 | rwhitby | _ASK_: you also need to be able to distinguish between the people who are leading this project (like mickeyl, who give very rational responses), and other people on IRC who give cowboy developer responses like the one you just quoted. |
| 08:20.44 | _ASK_ | ok |
| 08:21.20 | rwhitby | (no offence to the person you quoted intended - coding for coding's sake has it's place too, but not in a commercial development like openmoko) |
| 08:21.32 | Magon | i wanted to start writting footer, but first I need to know how it is supposed to work so I need to know dbus interface |
| 08:21.53 | mickeyl | ah, right |
| 08:22.01 | mickeyl | there has been some discussion about that last weekend |
| 08:22.05 | Magon | i have been looking for dbus spec and dbus in code yeaterday and spec are good, and there is nearly no dbus in code |
| 08:22.22 | mickeyl | yes, we don't make use of dbus yet |
| 08:22.27 | mickeyl | except via eds |
| 08:22.47 | mickeyl | what we expect from the footer API will soon be documented by alphaone |
| 08:22.52 | mickeyl | (hopefully) |
| 08:23.04 | mickeyl | also, I need to go over the GSoC proposals |
| 08:23.13 | mickeyl | this is on my agenda for this week as well |
| 08:23.26 | mickeyl | (contains also a footer application, i guess that's yours?) |
| 08:23.42 | Magon | I want to help do build the dbus interface |
| 08:23.45 | Magon | yes that is mine |
| 08:24.40 | Magon | but there is not yet anything to build on, and building from scratch is not wise idea without discusion |
| 08:25.11 | rwhitby | _ASK_: my suggestion would be to create a wiki page with examples of the types of standards you would like to see put in place, with examples perhaps from PalmOS (cause it seems you're familiar with that), and then read the archives of the mailing list to see what decisions have been made at that level already, and then open up the other questions for discussion on the mailing lists (pointing to the wiki page you've created). |
| 08:27.27 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:29.22 | _ASK_ | well, now that you're suggesting things |
| 08:29.37 | _ASK_ | what's the easiest way to create dummy apps? |
| 08:29.44 | _ASK_ | like Visualbasic on windows |
| 08:29.51 | _ASK_ | just to demonstrate concepts |
| 08:30.11 | rwhitby | pygtk+? dunno - I'm not a gui expert. |
| 08:30.28 | *** join/#openmoko PBeck|off (i=PBeck@yourse.de) |
| 08:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko filippo (n=filippo@host160-145-dynamic.2-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it) |
| 08:35.04 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1617 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/openmoko-libs_svn.bb: oe/openmoko-base: grab latest openmoko-libs from OE upstream |
| 08:36.24 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 08:39.29 | *** join/#openmoko Georg_Miersch (n=Georg@243-58-60-212-pool.cable.fcom.ch) |
| 08:40.49 | Georg_Miersch | i am very surprised by the today's mail of Sean Moss: Citation: My original plan was to announce that Harald convinced us all |
| 08:40.49 | Georg_Miersch | to turn OpenMoko into a closed source distribution --ClosedMofo. |
| 08:41.03 | Georg_Miersch | What does that means? no openmoko any more? |
| 08:41.30 | Magon | Georg_Miersch: yesterday was the first of april |
| 08:42.03 | mickeyl | hahaha |
| 08:42.05 | Georg_Miersch | :-) So is this also a joke: "we're accepting orders?" |
| 08:42.18 | mickeyl | where is this annoncement? |
| 08:42.36 | Georg_Miersch | on announce lists of yesterday |
| 08:42.36 | CM | Announce mail |
| 08:42.39 | ozamosi | Georg_Miersch: it was supposed not to be |
| 08:42.50 | Magon | on openmoko-something..discussion ? |
| 08:43.01 | Magon | or announce... |
| 08:43.01 | mjr | it's not so much of a joke as it is a description of a joke |
| 08:43.34 | ozamosi | mickeyl: he sent it to the community list too, so you should get it anyway :P |
| 08:43.43 | mickeyl | right |
| 08:43.49 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 08:43.52 | Georg_Miersch | Well phase 1 phone seems onway. Sean Moss included two hardware pictures in his mail in announce mail. very cool. |
| 08:43.53 | mickeyl | wow |
| 08:43.56 | mickeyl | nice unshielded phone pictures |
| 08:44.35 | Georg_Miersch | I notice more samsung hardware components than before, true? |
| 08:44.36 | rwhitby | aloril's bot is our announce list ... |
| 08:45.48 | mickeyl | Georg_Miersch: shouldn |
| 08:45.48 | mickeyl | t be. probably just reseating on the PCB |
| 08:45.48 | mickeyl | i.e. moving |
| 08:45.49 | mickeyl | we still have no SMP phone |
| 08:45.49 | mickeyl | heh |
| 08:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 08:45.49 | ozamosi | say that the reason for the instability is the hardware, and the problem is discovered now - how long does it take to create a new hardware revision? |
| 08:45.49 | Georg_Miersch | SMP? |
| 08:45.55 | mickeyl | symmetrical multi processing |
| 08:46.10 | Georg_Miersch | but there is basic phone capability |
| 08:46.19 | XorA | mickeyl: you do have AMP though |
| 08:46.23 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 08:46.29 | mickeyl | XorA, yeah, but hardly controllable ;) |
| 08:46.37 | mickeyl | or at least... very limited |
| 08:46.38 | Georg_Miersch | Does SMP means you can phone and game at the same moment? like multitasking? |
| 08:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 08:46.50 | mickeyl | no no, SMP would mean putting more CPUs into the phone |
| 08:46.51 | mickeyl | it's nuts |
| 08:46.52 | florian | good morning |
| 08:46.56 | mickeyl | (at this point of time) |
| 08:47.00 | mickeyl | cheers florian |
| 08:47.03 | XorA | already got 2 cpu's in the phone |
| 08:47.11 | mickeyl | ya, but AP/BP doesn't really count |
| 08:47.20 | pH5 | puny arm7tdmi |
| 08:47.45 | Georg_Miersch | AP/BP that is not AC/DC :-)? What is this processor for? |
| 08:48.24 | XorA | AC/DC does that mean we all have to get into our schoolboy outfits? |
| 08:48.49 | Georg_Miersch | I am looking AP/BP on wiki... |
| 08:49.15 | Georg_Miersch | not found on the wiki. what the heck is ap? |
| 08:49.24 | mickeyl | AP = Application Processor |
| 08:49.28 | mickeyl | BP = Baseband Processor |
| 08:49.39 | mickeyl | AP runs our shiny apps |
| 08:49.44 | mickeyl | BP runs the GSM stack |
| 08:50.03 | Georg_Miersch | Thanks! And there are not a third cpu? |
| 08:50.19 | mickeyl | not at this point of time |
| 08:50.33 | mickeyl | perhaps some GP later |
| 08:50.57 | Georg_Miersch | :-) |
| 08:51.14 | mjr | the bluetooth chip? |
| 08:51.17 | ozamosi | GP? What happened to CP, DP, EP and FP? :) |
| 08:51.27 | mickeyl | :D |
| 08:51.43 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-64-132.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 08:52.17 | Magon | mickeyl: is neod supposed to be point controlling all dbus communication? |
| 08:52.59 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 08:53.44 | mickeyl | not controlling everything (dbus daemon does that actually), but probably having the largest dbus API |
| 08:53.53 | koen|lab | the bt is likely arm7 as well |
| 08:54.20 | Georg_Miersch | Well, I have another issue. Sean Moss wrote yesterday he's accepting orders though there is some delay. So WHERE can you place an order? |
| 08:54.47 | Georg_Miersch | I mean if it's not a 1st april joke... |
| 08:55.22 | mjr | Georg_Miersch, he was describing what he would've liked to have done as an April Fool's joke |
| 08:55.54 | Georg_Miersch | Okey, thanx for clarification... |
| 08:56.25 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 08:57.34 | Georg_Miersch | So basically Sean Moss gave us the message that there will be more weeks delay because of some hardware issues still not resolved. It's better to have a good hardware than a flawed one. |
| 08:58.26 | XorA | best April fool would have been "openmoko sold to microsoft" |
| 08:59.14 | Georg_Miersch | :-) or the hardware for free.. |
| 08:59.26 | rwhitby | I was considering sending an email with some fabricated u-boot patches which implemented a new GTAPR01 device, where 'P' was for performance (400MHz) and 'R' was for radio (wifi). |
| 08:59.43 | drath | hehehehe |
| 08:59.48 | XorA | rwhitby: :-D |
| 09:00.00 | koen|lab | gsmd patches for umts |
| 09:00.01 | rwhitby | but I took my son bowling instead :-) |
| 09:00.19 | XorA | a boot over WiFi patch |
| 09:00.24 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-147-237.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:00.42 | mjr | rwhitby, the joke's on him then ;) |
| 09:00.56 | pH5 | gsmd umts patches wouldn't be that much of a joke, now that gsmd runs on htc universal |
| 09:00.59 | rwhitby | nah, he loved it (he's 6). got a strike and a spare. |
| 09:02.04 | mickeyl | actually last weekend on the openmoko devel meeting we talked about april jokes as well |
| 09:02.10 | mickeyl | "OpenMoko bought by MontaVista" |
| 09:02.19 | mickeyl | "OpenMoko bankrupt" |
| 09:02.20 | mickeyl | and stuff |
| 09:02.22 | mickeyl | :D |
| 09:02.34 | mickeyl | but we rather worked instead of formulating something |
| 09:02.35 | xkr47 | "openmoko will be based on qt after all" |
| 09:02.36 | xkr47 | :D |
| 09:02.40 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 09:02.42 | mickeyl | right |
| 09:04.31 | Rakshasa | "windows 95 source code released to public by microsoft -- Openmoko will be based on it." |
| 09:05.30 | TRIsoft | Psi_: OMG, what a morning... Checked all the mails. What do i have to look for ? |
| 09:05.31 | mickeyl | scary :) |
| 09:05.47 | rwhitby | I think the best april fools jokes are those that are believable, and you can't quite work out whether it's a joke or not. Pity Slashdot has no idea about it. Google's attempts were too far-fetched as well. |
| 09:06.37 | ozamosi | rwhitby: google always do two way too far-fetched, where one of them is actually true |
| 09:07.13 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1618 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (9 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 09:07.13 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Do some clean work |
| 09:07.13 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 1.free used strings |
| 09:07.13 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 2.remove comments and functions which will not be used any more |
| 09:07.13 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 3.clean some definitions |
| 09:07.14 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 4.review detail-area and rewrite member definition |
| 09:07.17 | rwhitby | so which of the google paper or toilet broadband is the true one this year? |
| 09:07.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 5.move page enum from main.h to detail-area.h |
| 09:07.48 | ozamosi | "we will be doing webmail. the standard 5 meg was not enough, so we'll give you 1 GB each instead" |
| 09:08.03 | ozamosi | Well... I doubt the toilet broadband is true :) |
| 09:09.05 | Georg_Miersch | joke: you now can use the neo to switch traffic light phases to green.. |
| 09:09.11 | paulproteus | ozamosi, Yeah, I thought Gmail was a joke too... )-: |
| 09:09.30 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-38-186.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 09:12.19 | ozamosi | Didn't they put up that taxi tracking gmap system another year on 1st of april? |
| 09:15.38 | *** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@sedova.highlink.ru) |
| 09:16.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Msquared]] [[Main_Page/ee]] |
| 09:18.52 | Georg_Miersch | If you look the picture of gta01b_v4 and ..v3 there is a big layout chance! |
| 09:20.45 | hrw | Georg_Miersch: its a result of pressing 'reroute' button after making some changes |
| 09:22.07 | *** join/#openmoko wildfire (n=wildfire@203.7.227.146) |
| 09:22.43 | Georg_Miersch | the processor seems to be the same S3C2410... C0649 |
| 09:22.58 | hrw | Georg_Miersch: gta01bv5 will get faster |
| 09:23.17 | Georg_Miersch | yeah! that is phase 1.5? |
| 09:23.45 | hrw | bv5? yes |
| 09:24.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r65 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (7 files): Remove all un-needed patches |
| 09:24.35 | Georg_Miersch | I think so they are same. I was referring to the wiki announcement that there will be a phase 1.5 device in June, with a faster cpu and possibly a wifi functionality |
| 09:25.32 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 09:25.49 | rwhitby | openmoko may well build with no patches right now - need to rebuild from scratch to confirm. |
| 09:27.19 | Georg_Miersch | how realistic is the neo 1973 mockup (debian packages) to the real device? Differences? |
| 09:27.45 | hrw | Georg_Miersch: ? |
| 09:29.31 | Georg_Miersch | I thought you can install openmoko in ubuntu and also run a neo device mockup on the pc screen using the mouse to simulate a touchscreen? |
| 09:29.31 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@xdsl-87-78-147-105.netcologne.de) |
| 09:29.50 | hrw | ah.. you mean xoo with neo1973 skin? |
| 09:29.51 | Georg_Miersch | using the mouse to imitiate a touch screen? |
| 09:30.04 | Georg_Miersch | yes xoo |
| 09:30.46 | Georg_Miersch | you bastard... Im still waiting... :-) |
| 09:33.36 | Georg_Miersch | hrw: can the touchscreen detect multi touch? two fingers touching the screen at the same time? |
| 09:33.42 | ozamosi | yeah... I almost had a match in my hand, ready to burn my current phone once and for all, before I realized there would be more delays :( |
| 09:34.41 | Georg_Miersch | nooo better collect them and plaster your living room like stuffed wildlife animal heads |
| 09:35.17 | Georg_Miersch | XorA - I have pity with you, only 3 --- how is this possible? |
| 09:35.49 | XorA | although first one is very non working as a phone :-D |
| 09:35.55 | hrw | Georg_Miersch: yesterday I would tell you that it can detect all 5 fingers |
| 09:36.08 | Georg_Miersch | :-) |
| 09:36.09 | hrw | Georg_Miersch: today I will point you to wiki and faq |
| 09:36.10 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 09:36.40 | Georg_Miersch | Im reading hardware details on the second screen... |
| 09:36.49 | Georg_Miersch | in openwiki |
| 09:41.19 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 09:42.30 | Georg_Miersch | Yes neo 1973 has a touchscreen capable of multitouch. citation from openwiki: The Neo1973 has a screen that is capable of multitouch, only the driver is missing. If multitouch is available, then pressure sensitivity may be possible: The harder you press the finger, the bigger the area your finger covers. |
| 09:42.40 | TRIsoft | Pinging Psi_ again |
| 09:46.56 | Georg_Miersch | I will plan my application for Neo 1973 using multitouch even if the driver is missing. Well it seems that general system-level multitouch behavior still has to be established. Like pressing thumb in the lower left corner and using another finger to move a map image = grab function. if the thumb is not on the screen, a finger tap will activate a map zoom. |
| 09:47.42 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3F956.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:48.12 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 09:51.10 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@ppp167-236-180.static.internode.on.net) |
| 09:51.47 | i386 | hey |
| 09:52.00 | i386 | just got openmoko working on a HTC Magician |
| 09:52.12 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@194.65.5.235) |
| 09:52.12 | pH5 | hey i386, congrats |
| 09:52.26 | hrw | I wonder why people insist on multitouch when screen has 2.8" only |
| 09:52.26 | i386 | http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Magician |
| 09:52.36 | i386 | pH5: ty |
| 09:52.43 | XorA | hrw: apple PR monster |
| 09:52.46 | i386 | Im just having a little bit of trouble though |
| 09:53.35 | i386 | I assume the screen on the neo is much larger than the htc magician |
| 09:53.46 | i386 | is there anyway to rescale the ui? |
| 09:53.57 | hrw | i386: neo has 2.8" vga. magician has qvga iirc? |
| 09:54.36 | pH5 | i386: there a qvga theme in the svn |
| 09:54.46 | i386 | right |
| 09:54.47 | pH5 | i386: but unfortunately a lot of the apps still hardcode ui sizes |
| 09:55.03 | pH5 | I have working patches for the guitar app and half of the dialer. |
| 09:55.05 | i386 | is that going to change? |
| 09:55.14 | pH5 | i386: sure! |
| 09:55.15 | i386 | oh rock! |
| 09:55.15 | Georg_Miersch | multitouch makes sense!!! the iphone is designed with multitouch, you can access application and function faster |
| 09:55.39 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 09:55.44 | i386 | pH5: right |
| 09:55.48 | hrw | Georg_Miersch: show me *working* iphone then I will maybe understand |
| 09:56.03 | i386 | To tell you the truth ive hacked a recent openmoko root image |
| 09:56.19 | i386 | with the right kernel and driver loading info for the htc magician |
| 09:56.20 | pH5 | Georg_Miersch: proper gesture support will be much more useful. I usually only have the thumb on the touchscreen. |
| 09:56.23 | Georg_Miersch | multitouch; one finger is working as "shift" the other can select another functions. |
| 09:56.45 | i386 | is there anyway to get pimped out on powerpc linux for openmoko development? |
| 09:57.13 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:57.22 | Georg_Miersch | I am pretty sure you won't miss multitouch. I am not against singletouch. I advocate the using of both possibilities. |
| 09:58.07 | i386 | apple are experts at the vulcan nerve pinch |
| 09:58.25 | Georg_Miersch | multitouch watch the amazing movie! http://cs.nyu.edu/~jhan/ftirtouch/ |
| 09:58.47 | i386 | better |
| 09:58.52 | i386 | hrw: you were right |
| 09:58.56 | i386 | :) |
| 09:59.33 | i386 | pH5: could I get a look at those patches? |
| 10:00.33 | Georg_Miersch | multitouch: to enlage a thumbnail image put two fingers on screen and move the fingers in opposite directions (one finger to the left other finger to the right), then you will zoom in the picture accordingly. |
| 10:01.14 | pH5 | i386: sure, pretty much WIP: http://en.pastebin.ca/420682 |
| 10:01.24 | guaqua | Georg_Miersch: i think the people here are familiar with that |
| 10:03.37 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 10:04.18 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-238-242.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 10:04.32 | Georg_Miersch | about the half yes - the other cannot imagine multitouch possibilities. |
| 10:05.11 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@ppp167-236-180.static.internode.on.net) |
| 10:05.18 | i386 | sorry what was that url again? |
| 10:05.26 | pH5 | http://en.pastebin.ca/420682 |
| 10:05.32 | i386 | ta |
| 10:05.42 | i386 | Just had my Xserver crapout :/ |
| 10:06.17 | guaqua | Georg_Miersch: yes they can, they just don't see a reason to put their time and effort on the issue, since it's not a priority one |
| 10:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549b9f26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:12.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Calculator]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 10:14.56 | i386 | where can I find it in svn? |
| 10:14.57 | i386 | (the gvga theme) |
| 10:16.07 | ping_tu | anyone can tell me url of download sha256sum |
| 10:17.09 | Georg_Miersch | yes. but anyway for my application I already plan and design multitouch capability for the future while providing singletouch capability. This will save me some time to implement multitouch user input, if a driver is ready. |
| 10:17.11 | hrw | ping_tu: newer coreutils have it |
| 10:17.12 | rwhitby | ping_tu: for the slugosle distro, you should look in ipkg.nslu2-linux.org - does that help? or was there some other distro you were interested it? |
| 10:18.35 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-137-093.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:20.50 | i386 | pH5: do you perhaps have a binary of that fix? |
| 10:22.03 | pH5 | i386: trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard-qvga |
| 10:22.06 | pH5 | i386: only on the phone |
| 10:22.15 | i386 | pH5: ahh bugger |
| 10:22.30 | i386 | pH5: dont have my dev enviroment setup here :P |
| 10:23.45 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@agw.turkuamk.fi) |
| 10:24.38 | i386 | pH5: thanks anyway :) |
| 10:25.00 | *** part/#openmoko Georg_Miersch (n=Georg@243-58-60-212-pool.cable.fcom.ch) |
| 10:25.18 | pH5 | i386: np, let me know if you find time to do further qvga-ification :) |
| 10:26.11 | SpeedEvil | ping_tu it's in slackwares coreutils ftp.slackware.com in the source dirs |
| 10:26.20 | i386 | pH5: hey |
| 10:26.27 | i386 | I just got the themes now |
| 10:26.29 | i386 | and its working |
| 10:26.36 | i386 | s/working/booting/ |
| 10:27.05 | i386 | so ill let you know when its all done... |
| 10:27.14 | pH5 | i386: cool |
| 10:27.46 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 10:29.41 | i386 | pH5: right |
| 10:29.46 | i386 | that looks much better |
| 10:29.47 | i386 | although |
| 10:29.58 | i386 | the keyboard pixmap looks like its missing from the top left |
| 10:30.11 | i386 | the desktop items are rather large |
| 10:30.29 | pH5 | re kb pixmap, It's the same on vga. don't get me started about mb-panel2 |
| 10:32.13 | i386 | pH5: mb-panel2? |
| 10:33.33 | pH5 | matchbox-panel-2, the top panel app. |
| 10:34.31 | i386 | pH5: without the patches I suppose I cant dial anything? |
| 10:34.59 | pH5 | well, the 'dial' button is off-screen. you could navigate there with the d-pad, I guess :) |
| 10:35.48 | rwhitby | (as an alternative to the touchscreen only device) |
| 10:36.03 | i386 | pH5: no dpad on the magician :) |
| 10:36.48 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 10:37.12 | rwhitby | (except for that speed thing, of course - maybe a turbocharged Treo650v12) |
| 10:37.36 | pH5 | i386: what magician are you talking about? |
| 10:37.38 | pH5 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/7337648@N08/415587809/ |
| 10:40.21 | _ASK_ | oh i love the old dell keyboard |
| 10:40.35 | _ASK_ | newer models have a filmsy one... |
| 10:41.55 | i386 | pH5: HTC Magician |
| 10:42.05 | i386 | pH5: sold as O2 XDA Mini |
| 10:42.13 | pH5 | so you have direction keys below the screen, right. |
| 10:42.18 | i386 | yeah I do |
| 10:42.20 | pH5 | ok |
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| 10:48.28 | _ASK_ | nite |
| 10:54.14 | rwhitby | _ASK_: night - I look forward to seeing your specifications wiki page ... |
| 10:55.18 | *** join/#openmoko wbx_ (n=wbx@xdsl-87-78-228-37.netcologne.de) |
| 11:01.00 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1619 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (sms-contact-window.c sms-contact-window.h): |
| 11:01.01 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Change contact-window parent from MokoWindow to GtkWindow |
| 11:01.01 | CIA-16 | openmoko: For reason that MokoWindow will automatically add window to MokoApplication, so there would be a warning 'window added twice'. |
| 11:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@dhcp-245-122-nwap-zm-kol.unizh.ch) |
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| 11:08.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 11:23.46 | kiney__ | counter |
| 11:23.46 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 12:18:07 (5.513 +-5.5 days) (721,140) |
| 11:26.40 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
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| 11:46.10 | PBeck | tag |
| 11:48.18 | mickeyl | morsche |
| 11:48.23 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lab (n=koen@wlan137116.mobiel.utwente.nl) |
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| 11:56.13 | Hadaka | so, have people already analyzed all the changes in the new to be released hardware? |
| 11:56.24 | Hadaka | based on the couple pictures, I mean ;) |
| 11:57.30 | SpeedEvil | what pictures? |
| 11:57.43 | Hadaka | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-April/000011.html |
| 11:58.16 | roh | Hadaka since i can go over to harald and just touch the pcb... ;) |
| 11:58.46 | Hadaka | roh: heh, well, so, what's different from phase0? :) |
| 11:58.47 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 11:59.13 | SpeedEvil | It's naked. |
| 12:00.10 | roh | Hadaka mostly minor changes like pins on flatcables or single gpio reorderings |
| 12:00.14 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 12:00.21 | SpeedEvil | Debug connector has moved. |
| 12:00.27 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 12:00.31 | SpeedEvil | no, never mind. |
| 12:01.10 | roh | the parallel bus on the debug connector is gone (did more harm than use) and a i2c is added there |
| 12:03.30 | SpeedEvil | What are the pads next to the vibrator? |
| 12:03.53 | Stephmw | headers for the remote-control dongle for the japanese market |
| 12:03.56 | Stephmw | j/k |
| 12:05.09 | Hadaka | roh: okay, thanks |
| 12:05.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] |
| 12:05.45 | Hadaka | are there sensors in the phone? temperature? something else? |
| 12:06.22 | roh | Hadaka not that i know of.. and if they would be unpractical for external use |
| 12:09.25 | SpeedEvil | It was stated somewhere earlier that SPI would be brought out to solderpads. Did that end up happening? |
| 12:09.49 | roh | SpeedEvil i2c |
| 12:10.32 | SpeedEvil | Sigh - I always get those confused. |
| 12:12.41 | Hadaka | roh: thanks |
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| 12:47.23 | i386 | bahahhh |
| 12:47.31 | i386 | ppc crash in monotone! |
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| 12:52.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03dodji * r1620 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (3 files in 2 dirs): |
| 12:52.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Went forward with the mokojournal API mockup |
| 12:52.06 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/moko-journal.[c|h]: went forward |
| 12:52.06 | CIA-16 | openmoko: with the API proposal |
| 12:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 12:54.55 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1621 10/trunk/ (2 files in 2 dirs): |
| 12:54.55 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * switch vibrator pin into GPIO OUTPUT mode by default |
| 12:54.55 | CIA-16 | openmoko: ** this prevents vibrator from being default-on at boot time |
| 12:54.55 | CIA-16 | openmoko: ** kernerl driver needs to switch from GPiO output to TOUT3 function mode |
| 12:59.09 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 13:04.04 | Hadaka | hmmh, am I the only one who thinks that by-nature extensible stuff, such as the 'journal' for calls and stuff, should not be coded in C - or atleast there should be a framework for memory management and datatypes, such as APR? |
| 13:04.40 | hrw | Hadaka: we all should write in BASIC |
| 13:04.57 | robtaylor | hrw: noo! FORTH! |
| 13:05.16 | XorA | robtaylor: dont be stupid, COBOL |
| 13:05.36 | SpeedEvil | awk. |
| 13:06.16 | XorA | a friend of mine once wrote a java optimiser in awk, when he was illegally fired from company I was only man who could decode it :-) |
| 13:06.28 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 13:06.37 | robtaylor | XorA: that's truly sick |
| 13:07.28 | SpeedEvil | Awk is very nice for what it's good at. |
| 13:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko Yogesh (n=yogesh@203.193.154.202) |
| 13:07.48 | SpeedEvil | I've even done realtime DSP in it. |
| 13:07.57 | greghunt | the only awk i know is '{print $2}' |
| 13:08.02 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3F956.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:08.11 | SpeedEvil | awk '$0=$2' is faster. |
| 13:08.11 | *** join/#openmoko ewon (n=ewan@skynet.skynet.ie) |
| 13:08.13 | ewon | greets |
| 13:08.19 | Yogesh | from where i can be able to get the source code of openmoko |
| 13:08.20 | Hadaka | perhaps I'm just not thinking in phone terms, but if adding, for example, jabber messages to journal requires changing libopenmoko C-API and coding C, that sounds very unextensible |
| 13:08.45 | XorA | its amusing how much of a speed inscrease you can gain from java with a few regexps |
| 13:09.03 | robtaylor | Hadaka: i think you're confusing code and data |
| 13:09.20 | ewon | java.util.regex++: |
| 13:09.23 | Hadaka | robtaylor: am I? |
| 13:09.26 | ewon | s/\:/\;/ |
| 13:09.44 | robtaylor | Hadaka: well, if the api sucks, then the api needs fixing |
| 13:09.49 | XorA | ewon: nah, just fixing some fundamental mistakes in the Java VM |
| 13:09.56 | robtaylor | Hadaka: thats completely orthogonal to which language to us |
| 13:10.01 | robtaylor | *e |
| 13:10.10 | ewon | is the openmoko gpu / cpu quick enough to decode a stream of jpegs in realish time? |
| 13:10.10 | aloril | ewon: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:10.19 | ewon | nice :) |
| 13:10.42 | XorA | weeble? |
| 13:10.52 | Hadaka | robtaylor: well yeah, I'm bundling those two things only because C-code requires recompilation and API changes are nasty when trying to keep binary compatibility in a library |
| 13:11.35 | robtaylor | api will always be hard |
| 13:11.55 | robtaylor | dealing with abi changes is a pretty well understood technique ;) |
| 13:12.09 | Hadaka | robtaylor: the fact that C is the language is of no importance, except if using C means manual memory management |
| 13:12.32 | ewon | it would be nice to have a phone I can write C for |
| 13:12.33 | robtaylor | Hadaka: ok, you try writing something that runs fast on Neo hardware using another language.. |
| 13:12.46 | ewon | everytime I have to write something in j2me I die a little bit inside |
| 13:12.54 | guaqua | haha |
| 13:13.05 | Hadaka | robtaylor: yeah, abi changes can be handled - but it's really was a pain when developing subversion for example |
| 13:13.11 | SpeedEvil | It's a relatively slow processor. You have to be _reasonably_ efficient. |
| 13:13.22 | ewon | currently have a 6230i, and pretty much the only option is j2me |
| 13:13.23 | Hadaka | well yeah, perhaps I'm just not thinking in phone terms then |
| 13:13.24 | guaqua | how does j2me compare to j2se? |
| 13:13.35 | SpeedEvil | Especially when in future cases we may be able to use the display in slow mode (12Mhz) |
| 13:13.44 | ewon | it's like j2se's retarded cousin that touches people inappropriately. |
| 13:14.04 | guaqua | ewon: :D |
| 13:14.05 | robtaylor | Hadaka: feel free to code in any language you want, you don't need to use libopenmoko |
| 13:14.24 | Hadaka | robtaylor: yeah, ofcourse, I just thought it was a bit odd |
| 13:14.26 | ewon | I write C for a living, having to use j2me to get use out of my phone causes me physical pain |
| 13:14.28 | robtaylor | its soemthing very specifically for a phone platform |
| 13:14.44 | robtaylor | Hadaka: you thought using C on a slow, memory constrained embedded platform was odd? |
| 13:14.52 | robtaylor | interesting |
| 13:15.12 | Hadaka | robtaylor: I've used python programs on N770 which use GTK and all - they are not unusable at all |
| 13:15.25 | Hadaka | robtaylor: and python is about the slowest language one could imagine running on that |
| 13:15.29 | robtaylor | Hadaka: N770 is about 4 times faster than Neo, iirc |
| 13:15.49 | robtaylor | Hadaka: and import python-glib still takes 30 seconds on a N770 |
| 13:16.06 | guaqua | that's bad |
| 13:16.10 | Hadaka | robtaylor: is it? I thought they were somewhat comparable? I tried asking around for that information earlier |
| 13:16.11 | ewon | lads, why is the micro-sd slot under the battery? is this not what killed the n-gage? |
| 13:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 13:16.25 | SpeedEvil | ewon: cheapness. |
| 13:16.38 | SpeedEvil | It's more expensive to move it off the combined slot. |
| 13:16.38 | robtaylor | Hadaka: no, the samsung processor is really quite slow for its clock speed |
| 13:16.44 | ewon | I see |
| 13:16.49 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu2y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 13:16.55 | ewon | I'd sacrifice speed for battery life any day |
| 13:16.59 | SpeedEvil | In future, other devices may be better. |
| 13:17.13 | Hadaka | robtaylor: ah, okay, well then it is getting a bit tricky |
| 13:17.16 | robtaylor | Hadaka: starting udev taks 44s on the neo hardware, about 4 n N770 |
| 13:17.16 | SpeedEvil | and have for example SD or microSD slots. |
| 13:17.43 | robtaylor | Hadaka: i'm not really sure whats so slow though, I don't have one myself |
| 13:17.45 | guaqua | Hadaka: i'm all for python use too |
| 13:17.58 | zecke | robtaylor: we suspect the OE mount script to be guilty |
| 13:18.06 | Hadaka | robtaylor: I just tried python on N770 - 2-3 seconds for start up, 4-5 second for import glib - and not sure if this xterm lags or not |
| 13:18.12 | robtaylor | Hadaka: also mono's looking quite good on N770/N800 too |
| 13:18.35 | robtaylor | Hadaka: hmm, thats quite interesting, is that python2.5? |
| 13:18.38 | Hadaka | mono on openmoko would be really nice |
| 13:18.43 | Hadaka | robtaylor: 2.4.2 |
| 13:18.45 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@owla-gw.cust.eunet.fi) |
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| 13:19.35 | Hadaka | robtaylor: I'm not sure what you mean by importing glib - do you mean starting the main loop as well? I just did 'import glib' |
| 13:20.03 | robtaylor | Hadaka: no i mean import glib, but maybe armeabi has helped with the speed there |
| 13:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 13:20.51 | robtaylor | Hadaka: and perhaps InDt have applied their glib linking speedups (breaks abi, but doenst really matter on this platform) |
| 13:21.02 | robtaylor | Hadaka: anyhow, its good to hear its a lot faster than it was |
| 13:21.03 | Hadaka | robtaylor: I don't know enough of the subject anyway - but the point is that I can start a python program on my N770 that uses GTK - and it starts under 10 seconds and is usable |
| 13:21.41 | robtaylor | Hadaka: how much memory does something that just imports and runs the mainlooop take? |
| 13:21.47 | Hadaka | but yeah, if the processor one quarter of the speed, then that is a problem |
| 13:21.55 | robtaylor | (i guess you don't have exmaps installed?) |
| 13:23.20 | Hadaka | robtaylor: I don't know how this is possible - but 2.8M resident |
| 13:23.44 | Hadaka | robtaylor: if exmaps is a separate installation on top of the default firmware, then I probably don't have it installed |
| 13:24.12 | robtaylor | Hadaka: try http://floopily.org/~robtaylor/memstats-busybox.py |
| 13:24.38 | robtaylor | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:25.41 | Hadaka | hrm, something iffy with the wlan, will take a moment |
| 13:25.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:27.12 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 13:30.17 | ewon | I presume if you guys go for a wifi chip in $NEXT_VERSION, it will support such useful things as monitor mode, and maybe an external antenna connection? |
| 13:31.23 | roh | ewon we will see. since we want competely opensourced drivers and i know no hardware which cannot do that i hope so ;) |
| 13:32.00 | ewon | excellent :) |
| 13:32.16 | guaqua | i'd love to see the mesh option :) |
| 13:32.29 | Hadaka | robtaylor: os.getlogin raises no such file on this installation, I'll try hardcoding that |
| 13:32.42 | Hadaka | (no idea what might be wrong, this device is up for reinstallation soon anyway) |
| 13:32.43 | ewon | I'm looking forward to a phone I can do useful things with :) |
| 13:32.58 | guaqua | ewon: useful? what's that? ;) |
| 13:33.06 | roh | guaqua i'd love to see any mesh protocol that is not complete and utter crap.. but besides that there is still hope |
| 13:33.17 | ewon | guaqua: something I can write apps for without selling my soul to j2me |
| 13:33.32 | robtaylor | Hadaka: ah, yeah, i think i've seen that issue too |
| 13:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko matrx (n=matrix@spic.net) |
| 13:36.16 | Hadaka | robtaylor: heap 380KB, stack 64 |
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| 13:37.36 | DukeOfURL | sha256sum is missing in the current build |
| 13:37.40 | buz | counter |
| 13:37.40 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 11:11:10 (5.466 +-5.5 days) (722,140) |
| 13:37.51 | buz | i think that counter should list something else |
| 13:39.20 | Stephmw | ewon: hang on... I sold my soul when I started working with j2me? wtf? I never got a dollar for it! |
| 13:39.47 | ewon | Stephmw: welcome to the dark side |
| 13:40.14 | matrx | gayness |
| 13:40.32 | matrx | misfire |
| 13:40.40 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:41.54 | robtaylor | Hadaka: hmm, its not too bad. i'd guess the same thing in c would probably be about 16,16 |
| 13:43.08 | SpeedEvil | why? |
| 13:44.13 | Stephmw | ewon: what's your objection btw.. Sun's phoneME? Would you use a GNU Classpath-based J2ME implementation? |
| 13:45.06 | ewon | Stephmw: I wouldn't use any j2me implementation at all... |
| 13:45.14 | ewon | I'd use a C crosscompiler, like God intended. |
| 13:45.29 | drath | hehehe |
| 13:45.39 | Stephmw | ewon: I see |
| 13:46.35 | ewon | java on something like the openmoko is, IMO, wrong. |
| 13:46.40 | ewon | we _know_ the hardware. |
| 13:46.42 | ewon | use C. |
| 13:47.05 | ewon | well, you guys know the hardware, I'm sure I'll poke it with a stick when the consumer version comes out |
| 13:47.29 | Stephmw | So you don't want to have access to existing mobile phone games? |
| 13:47.37 | SpeedEvil | Java - for end-user apps isn't silly. |
| 13:47.41 | ewon | for my uses, not really |
| 13:47.58 | Stephmw | ewon: ok, now that makes more sense |
| 13:48.41 | ewon | If I want to bum a few instructions off something in C, I can, with the java VM I'm stuck with whatever the VM implementer thought was sane at the time |
| 13:49.05 | ewon | I'm not saying there should not be a java VM for the openmoko, I'm stating that it shouldn't be the defacto choice for new userspace development. |
| 13:49.30 | ewon | that said, I've been here around 10 mins, so feel free to ignore. |
| 13:49.54 | Hadaka | I think no language which has manual memory management and is trivially crashable by typos should be the defacto choice for new userspace development |
| 13:50.43 | ewon | depends how you handle userspace crashes |
| 13:50.45 | drath | sure... let's put that Core2Duo in the phone, to be able to run all those shiny java apps ;) |
| 13:51.03 | ewon | and with limited hardware, manual memory management is possibly a necessity |
| 13:51.05 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 13:51.21 | SpeedEvil | drath: there are recently developed batteries that may work for that. |
| 13:51.24 | Hadaka | but, we'll how everything develops - it's ofcourse nice if the basic functionality of the phone is as fast and hand tuned as possible |
| 13:51.35 | SpeedEvil | drath: they can completely discharge in around 2 minutes. |
| 13:51.40 | drath | hehehehehe |
| 13:51.54 | Hadaka | but, have to jet now, ta ta |
| 13:52.00 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 13:52.07 | drath | guess you could also start a car engine with one of those batteries then :) |
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| 13:58.16 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1622 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/examples/openmoko-panel-demo/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am): openmoko-panel-demo: fix dependencies, closes #351 |
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| 14:00.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[UI_Improvements]] |
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| 14:07.36 | *** part/#openmoko concept10 (n=concept1@ppp-70-251-155-248.dsl.rcsntx.swbell.net) |
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| 14:10.48 | Stephmw | drath: you're obviously referring to desktop Java, ie J2SE. |
| 14:10.49 | Stephmw | drath: J2ME is more performant than that |
| 14:10.49 | Stephmw | drath: as well as being quite happy within a 2mb heap |
| 14:10.49 | ewon | it's still a VM, doing its own garbage collection / hand-holding / ass-wiping |
| 14:10.57 | Stephmw | which is exactly what you want for untrusted code |
| 14:11.24 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549b9f26.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:11.45 | guaqua | i think it would be a nice to have |
| 14:12.04 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure if chroot might not be a better option. |
| 14:12.26 | SpeedEvil | Or similar. |
| 14:12.27 | guaqua | there are a lot of devs who only have experience from java - and they would be a nice addition |
| 14:13.26 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: that's a valid point - I'm still uneasy with the ability of a native process to potentially block emergency calls |
| 14:13.36 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: something trivial to avoid in Java |
| 14:13.42 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: at least, at the vm level |
| 14:14.01 | drath | heh, always thought one of the points of having free software is that i can actually /trust/ the code |
| 14:14.24 | SpeedEvil | Umm - how can a native process block emergency calls? |
| 14:14.32 | SpeedEvil | If gsmd says no. |
| 14:14.48 | Vegar | it can kill gsmd |
| 14:14.49 | Stephmw | by blocking user interaction |
| 14:14.54 | koen|lab | fuser -k /dev/ttySAC0 |
| 14:15.12 | ewon | surely this could be implemented like the magic sysreq key in the kernel? get-through-at-all-costs kind of thing? |
| 14:15.13 | SpeedEvil | It can't kill gsmd if it's running as an untrusted process in a chroot. |
| 14:15.33 | Stephmw | no, but it can startve other processes: excessive IO, etc |
| 14:15.39 | Stephmw | *starve |
| 14:15.49 | koen|lab | just open an unclosable system modal dialog |
| 14:15.52 | ewon | so have the gsm handling as a kernel module? |
| 14:15.54 | SpeedEvil | There are existing solutions for that though. |
| 14:15.55 | koen|lab | full screen |
| 14:16.19 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I'm happy to cross that hurdle when we come to it though |
| 14:16.19 | SpeedEvil | The trivial option would be not to allow untrusted applications fullscreen. |
| 14:16.29 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 14:16.33 | SpeedEvil | keep the header/footer always. |
| 14:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko matrx (n=matrix@spic.net) |
| 14:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu2y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
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| 14:28.14 | *** join/#openmoko cydork (n=vihang@unaffiliated/cydork) |
| 14:34.40 | cydork | counter? |
| 14:35.08 | cydork | bahh .. |
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| 14:37.51 | *** join/#openmoko thomasg__ (n=thomasg@p57afd136.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:39.28 | aloril | cydork: |
| 14:39.29 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 10:40:17 (5.445 +-5.4 days) |
| 14:39.42 | cydork | aloril: ahh thanks. :) |
| 14:40.51 | aloril | cydork: it didn't like extra space at end (and it gives shorter version without '?') |
| 14:40.52 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lab (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 14:40.55 | cydork | aloril: oh ok.. didn't knew that :) |
| 14:44.40 | thomasg__ | is there already handwriting recognition in openmoko (or will there be in near future)? |
| 14:46.09 | ewon | depends if there is an opensource handwriting recog solution - maybe something ripped from the 770? |
| 14:46.40 | hrw | there are |
| 14:46.51 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1623 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-appmanager/openmoko-appmanager.pro: openmoko-appmanager: repair qmake building |
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| 14:51.37 | koen | did someone mention 'open source' and 770 in the same sentence? |
| 14:52.02 | ewon | I did |
| 14:52.06 | ewon | *hangs head in shame* |
| 14:52.29 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1624 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/inputmethods/: add inputmethods directory, this is where the openmoko-inputmethods should reside |
| 14:54.24 | koen | mickeyl: you noticed openmoko-keyboard_svn.bb in OE? ;) |
| 14:54.33 | mickeyl | sure thing :) |
| 14:54.49 | mickeyl | took a look aet? |
| 14:54.50 | mickeyl | yet |
| 14:55.02 | koen | not yet |
| 14:55.02 | mickeyl | om-keyboard is a good start, far from what we'd like, but not bad imo |
| 14:55.18 | koen | I'd like to have it as a patch to matchbox-keybaord |
| 14:55.43 | koen | openmoko wont have a zillion chinese code slaves in the future to maintain all forks |
| 14:55.50 | *** join/#openmoko jebba_ (n=jebba@220-179-89-200.fibertel.com.ar) |
| 14:56.07 | mickeyl | well |
| 14:56.07 | mickeyl | ya |
| 14:56.15 | mickeyl | i told that |
| 14:56.19 | mickeyl | "do it as a patch" |
| 14:56.30 | koen | I know how stuff like that goes |
| 14:56.40 | mickeyl | some engineers keep ignoring me |
| 14:56.43 | mickeyl | we will change that |
| 14:56.54 | koen | you don't want to see the 'utils' repo at the university |
| 14:56.57 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu2y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 14:56.59 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 14:57.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] |
| 14:57.29 | koen | s/<name>/UTwente <name>/g |
| 14:57.44 | koen | and hacks to keep it working with gcc 2.95.3..... |
| 14:57.54 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03www-data * r1625 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/ (2 files in 2 dirs): move openmoko-keyboard to inputmethods directory. NOTE: need adjusting OE recipes |
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| 15:01.30 | koen | mickeyl: FIC isn't sponsering GUADEC? |
| 15:01.42 | mickeyl | no idea |
| 15:01.53 | mickeyl | that's business issues |
| 15:03.27 | koen | mickeyl: could you ask the ipkg engineers to split up the is-processing patch? |
| 15:03.37 | mickeyl | i can try... |
| 15:05.14 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1626 10/trunk/oe/ (3 files in 2 dirs): oe: catch up w/ renaming openmoko-keyboard location in SVN |
| 15:06.23 | *** join/#openmoko isr (n=isr@ppp206-51.adsl.forthnet.gr) |
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| 15:10.23 | roh | oeeeh... where does the oe get "sha256sum" from? |
| 15:10.39 | zecke | I hate SHA :) |
| 15:10.58 | zecke | roh: coreutils of debian and ubuntu feature sha256sum |
| 15:11.04 | roh | it complains about missing it after i removed build/tmp since it was grown too much |
| 15:11.14 | roh | zecke i havent removed packages |
| 15:12.17 | zecke | roh: a couple of options: a) wait b) remove conf/checksums.ini and remove the checksums c) alias sha256sum="shasum -a256 -p" and install the perl module d) ... |
| 15:12.49 | koen | ok, diffsplit works as advertised, but is not what I want |
| 15:13.20 | zecke | koen: use mc to edit patches |
| 15:13.47 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (i=Cyphi_@a91-153-118-240.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:14.11 | koen | zecke: that, or I send you some frikandellen ;) |
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| 15:15.36 | koen | mickeyl: the best example of stubborn engineers was when the uni website framework needed an update and one engineer did everything in ASP .NET while the framework was in php |
| 15:15.56 | koen | (and ASP .NET doesn't work to well on apache 1.3.x) |
| 15:17.39 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 15:18.22 | ewon | yeah, back in college we had the token db-driven-website project... 90% of the class did it in ASP with an Access backend... 2 teams (including the one I was on) did it in PHP / MySQL - the ASP server used to die twice a day due to the sheer volume of atrocious code running on it |
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| 15:48.36 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 15:48.39 | plaes | hi! |
| 15:48.47 | plaes | in the Wiki, there is Estonian translation... |
| 15:48.57 | plaes | but the language code is mistakenly "ee" |
| 15:49.05 | plaes | it should be "et" instead... |
| 15:49.24 | ewon | enemy-territory? |
| 15:49.50 | plaes | well, was for 50 years.. in 91 we declared our independence |
| 15:49.51 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1627 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (openmoko-session_svn.bb openmoko-theme-standard-qvga_svn.bb): oe: actually package the proper theme |
| 15:50.25 | hrw | plaes: ISO language codes does not match other tables |
| 15:50.43 | hrw | plaes: .uk is United Kingdom or Ukraine? |
| 15:50.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:51.24 | plaes | united Kingdon is en_GB, ukraine is uk or ukr |
| 15:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 15:54.51 | koen | pH5: your gsmd now has vendor and machine plugins? |
| 15:56.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:57.06 | pH5 | koen: yes, tested on magician and neo, goxboxlive will test universal. |
| 15:57.20 | pH5 | I'll wait what LaF0rge has to say about that patch. |
| 15:58.56 | koen | people got the bluetooth working on ax80 and a1200 |
| 16:00.38 | koen | mickeyl: isn't that change to openmoko.bbclass superfluous? |
| 16:00.51 | mickeyl | is it? |
| 16:00.54 | koen | + elif section == "inputmethods": return "inputmethods" |
| 16:00.54 | mickeyl | let me check again |
| 16:00.54 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:00.59 | mickeyl | uah |
| 16:01.06 | mickeyl | ~lart me |
| 16:01.06 | apt | runs at mickeyl with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut |
| 16:01.23 | mickeyl | that's what i get for doing too many things in parallel |
| 16:01.27 | koen | That's why I didn't change it :) |
| 16:01.32 | mickeyl | right |
| 16:01.46 | koen | OTOH, it marks it as a valid section |
| 16:02.00 | mickeyl | note to self: don't make conference calls while coding |
| 16:02.16 | *** join/#openmoko etf|work_away (n=etf|work@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 16:02.19 | mickeyl | yeah, i want to change it to a dictionary anway soon |
| 16:02.26 | koen | mickeyl: http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?thread_name=460F8B38.50704%40iki.fi&forum_name=gtk-webcore-devel |
| 16:02.33 | koen | (in case you didn't see that yet) |
| 16:07.19 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 16:15.44 | mickeyl | koen: I didn't! Thanks |
| 16:16.26 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@168-103-68-55.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 16:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar__ (n=demitar@c-212-031-183-175.cust.broadway.se) |
| 16:16.53 | Vegar | does openmoko support scandinavian characters (æøåäö)? |
| 16:17.14 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 16:17.28 | hrw | koen: so gtk-minibrowser can be better now? |
| 16:17.38 | hrw | Vegar: on screen and on keyboard |
| 16:17.49 | Vegar | cool |
| 16:20.46 | thomasg__ | hm, I'd like to see a picture of the HTC Universe and the Neo1973 |
| 16:27.38 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@251.9.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) |
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| 16:33.30 | loufoque | Vegar: the locale is utf-8 |
| 16:36.21 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:37.02 | philippe | hrw: gpe-mini-browser you mean? |
| 16:37.07 | hrw | yes |
| 16:37.51 | philippe | Yep, gtk-webcore seems to work a lot better. I ironed out some last issues with Kimmo after that commit and updated the svn stuff in OE |
| 16:39.59 | *** join/#openmoko SrRaven (n=SrRaven@xion.phxhost.net) |
| 16:42.03 | philippe | I also added a patch that silences the gtk-webcore output so that we save some cpu cycles. I'll try it out on the openmoko soon. |
| 16:42.42 | hrw | ~lart mb-panel2 in openmoko |
| 16:42.42 | apt | send killer squirrels to attack mb-panel2 in openmoko |
| 16:43.19 | koen | ~lart in process plugins |
| 16:43.19 | apt | beats in process plugins into protomatter with the andromeda galaxy |
| 16:43.32 | koen | ~lart non executable plugins |
| 16:43.32 | apt | pours gasoline all over non executable plugins, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze |
| 16:43.53 | koen | ~lart panels that don't allow runtime loading plugins |
| 16:43.53 | apt | pries panels that don't allow runtime loading plugins's back open with a screwdriver and flashes a new bootldr to panels that don't allow runtime loading plugins |
| 16:45.17 | *** join/#openmoko Graf_Ithaka (n=georg@unixboard/users/graf) |
| 16:45.39 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1628 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/inputmethods/ (inputmethods.pro openmoko-keyboard/openmoko-keyboard.pro): add qmake build support for openmoko-keyboard |
| 16:46.18 | philippe | hmm, koen seems to be full of rage :-) |
| 16:46.37 | hrw | I do not remember when last time I had mb-panel2 running on neo |
| 16:47.26 | koen | .dev should have it sorted out right now |
| 16:47.49 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 16:48.48 | hrw | koen: I just upgraded |
| 16:49.23 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3ee3f956.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:51.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Phlash]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Introduction/ee]] |
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| 17:08.28 | thomasg__ | counter |
| 17:08.28 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 09:25:46 (5.393 +-5.4 days) (723,141) |
| 17:11.09 | *** join/#openmoko tuxmaniac (n=aanjhan@unaffiliated/tuxmaniac) |
| 17:11.19 | tuxmaniac | good evening all |
| 17:12.32 | tuxmaniac | I get this error when I run make openmoko-devel-image http://paste.ubuntu-nl.org/13542/ |
| 17:13.45 | zecke | tuxmaniac: yes? check line 11? |
| 17:20.04 | noidd | damn, that was a hard few days. |
| 17:20.46 | *** join/#openmoko bh1 (n=bh1@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
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| 17:25.34 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:26.05 | koen | The neo doesn't have hardware problems, they are just waiting for OSM to be usable in taipei! |
| 17:27.00 | *** part/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:28.05 | tuxmaniac | zecke, whats sha256sum coreutils contains only sha1sum |
| 17:28.30 | koen | coreutils 6.0 has sha256sum |
| 17:29.58 | roh | koen i have 5.93-5ubuntu4 which doesnt |
| 17:30.10 | koen | and? |
| 17:30.15 | koen | I said 6.0 does have it |
| 17:30.29 | koen | mplayer 4.5 also doesn't have sha256sum |
| 17:31.23 | tuxmaniac | My edgy machine also does not have sha256sum |
| 17:31.39 | roh | koen *sigh* then note it somewhere that anybody can recompile their distro and do not just say '$revision which most people do not use has it' |
| 17:31.53 | Elrond | counter |
| 17:31.53 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 09:14:03 (5.385 +-5.4 days) (724,141) |
| 17:32.05 | koen | roh: coreutils-6.0-native is in OE... |
| 17:32.17 | koen | roh: engage brain before commenting |
| 17:32.58 | roh | koen then the makefile is broken for not building it? |
| 17:33.06 | koen | makefile? |
| 17:33.16 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1629 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-pcf50606.patch: |
| 17:33.16 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * resolve mutex deadlock in suspend path |
| 17:33.16 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * disable interrupt until we've been scheduled to serve last one |
| 17:33.16 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * make sure we cannot disable IOREG, since that powers PCF50606 I2C interface |
| 17:33.16 | koen | what's a makefile? |
| 17:33.45 | roh | which one... just guess.. youre in #openmoko |
| 17:33.46 | noidd | its a perl thing /nod |
| 17:33.47 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1630 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: * Ask PCF50606 to not disable CORE_1V8. The PMU will do this as final step in hardware |
| 17:33.52 | noidd | Makefile.PL |
| 17:34.17 | koen | roh: every channel has a makefile? |
| 17:36.05 | *** join/#openmoko Graf_Ith1ka (n=georg@83-65-233-189.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 17:37.35 | roh | koen: your comments are neither helping nor compliant with any documentation which we have out there. we HAVE the mokomakefile and atm it seems broken. atleast thats my view of it. (reproducable here) |
| 17:38.37 | tuxmaniac | koen, should nt the makefile download and get the sha256sum instaleed? |
| 17:38.42 | koen | I wish people would use their common sense instead of starting each sentence with "the makefile is <something> and I have <problem>" |
| 17:42.13 | *** join/#openmoko KimuSan^ (n=kimusan@ip205.tankegang.dk) |
| 17:44.18 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 17:44.24 | LuitvD | hello :) |
| 17:44.43 | LuitvD | counter |
| 17:44.44 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 09:07:38 (5.380 +-5.4 days) (725,141) |
| 17:45.34 | zecke | koen: but the Makefile says I don't think |
| 17:46.04 | koen | zecke: that'd be it |
| 17:46.29 | philippe | grr.... u-boot-gta01v3-r4_6db7d0af2336c126e4d4b2f248cc23516bdd46a8_0_1621.bin seems not to work |
| 17:47.05 | philippe | guess there is no way to recover without the debug board? |
| 17:48.22 | LuitvD | how's the software developement going? |
| 17:48.42 | LuitvD | is openmoko coming together yet? |
| 17:48.43 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1631 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/ (8 files in 8 dirs): update .pro file |
| 17:49.08 | mickeyl | philippe: PLEASE NOT YOU! |
| 17:49.15 | roh | zecke since i get the same error with and without the makefile... ;) |
| 17:49.28 | mickeyl | philippe: gta01v3 is not Bv3 :/ |
| 17:49.41 | mickeyl | philippe: you now got a fancy doorstopper until you find someone w/ a debug board |
| 17:49.45 | roh | zecke and cannot build coreutil-6.0-native with bb erroring before |
| 17:50.35 | *** join/#openmoko elektrolott (n=Lothar@gw.sdforum.org) |
| 17:51.00 | philippe | mickeyl: OH FUCK! |
| 17:51.32 | mickeyl | ya |
| 17:52.01 | philippe | mickeyl: guess I'll see if I can get the Lauterbach at work fired up |
| 17:52.18 | mickeyl | ok |
| 17:52.23 | zecke | roh: I just checked in a mini sha256sum which is trustworthy to sum degree |
| 17:52.35 | zecke | roh: RP and me will check that it works with bitbake1.6 and 1.8 |
| 17:52.38 | mickeyl | philippe: if not, we can get you a debug board. in Braunschweig the guys have one spare |
| 17:52.44 | koen | philippe: and when you get it working again, flash a angstrom-x11-image to test webcore :) |
| 17:54.48 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178110112.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:54.53 | woglinde | counter |
| 17:54.53 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 09:02:33 (5.377 +-5.4 days) (726,141) |
| 17:55.32 | LuitvD | :) |
| 17:56.10 | philippe | mickeyl: seems I will have some trouble connecting the JTAG... |
| 17:56.46 | mickeyl | if you have a debug board, it's fairly easy |
| 17:57.26 | LuitvD | meh, still don't think I'd want openmoko on a FIC Neo1973... |
| 17:57.58 | LuitvD | still looking for a potential openmoko-device... |
| 17:58.11 | LuitvD | think the Motorola E690 would work? ROKR E6? anyone? |
| 17:58.32 | philippe | mickeyl: if you can get me one that would be great. |
| 17:59.04 | philippe | in the meantime I om decoding the OOCD link schematics |
| 17:59.50 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: hi, have you heard about the neo1973 emulation under qemu stuff? |
| 18:00.27 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: we would really like to make the code public and i was told to ask you for some place to post it osmewhere in openmoko's repos |
| 18:01.34 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: /src/host/qemu-neo1973 |
| 18:01.47 | mickeyl | balrog-kun: please mail LaF0rge for an account |
| 18:01.48 | mickeyl | bbiab |
| 18:02.07 | balrog-kun | mickeyl: ok, thanks for the suggestion |
| 18:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko behda1 (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 18:02.17 | balrog-kun | i'm gonna mail him right away |
| 18:03.32 | philippe | mickeyl: btw should I open a bug for the fact that the GPS antenna cable could get damaged during assembly? Mine has two nice marks on it from the cover... |
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| 18:04.12 | *** join/#openmoko mjm (n=mjm@hotel.sierrabravo.net) |
| 18:04.53 | mjm | havent kept up on the progress of this phone much lately. Is it for sale yet? |
| 18:05.03 | LuitvD | does anyone have info about what is needed for a device to run moko? like the ROKR E6 |
| 18:05.42 | woglinde | mjm counter |
| 18:05.58 | koen | LuitvD: touchscreen and a recent linux kernel |
| 18:06.06 | woglinde | koen *g* |
| 18:06.17 | zecke | mickeyl: poor boy. Do you know if projects.om gets fixed anytime soon? |
| 18:06.38 | koen | http://www.core77.com/blog/object_culture/cmmn_the_worlds_first_opensource_car__5847.asp |
| 18:06.38 | mjm | woglinde: counter? |
| 18:06.52 | woglinde | counter |
| 18:06.53 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 08:56:33 (5.373 +-5.4 days) (727,141) |
| 18:06.57 | LuitvD | koen: so the ROKR E6 should somewhat be a guaranteed moko-device? it's QVGA touchscreen and runs linux from the box |
| 18:07.21 | mjm | woglinde: im not pickin up wht your throwin down |
| 18:07.45 | woglinde | mjm type counter in your irc-client |
| 18:07.48 | LuitvD | mjm: look at what aloril did after woglinde said counter |
| 18:07.53 | LuitvD | counter |
| 18:07.53 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 08:56:03 (5.372 +-5.4 days) (728,141) |
| 18:07.55 | woglinde | than you get the status for p1 phase |
| 18:08.12 | koen | LuitvD: I said 'recent linux kernel' |
| 18:08.13 | LuitvD | or type /msg aloril counter? to get more details |
| 18:08.18 | koen | LuitvD: that means 2.6.19 or newer |
| 18:08.25 | koen | LuitvD: not 2.4.1.montevista |
| 18:08.34 | LuitvD | koen: hmm, meh, have to find out the kernel on the ROKR :P |
| 18:08.54 | xkr47 | 1.2 !! |
| 18:08.55 | koen | motorola only ships 2.4 kernels |
| 18:08.59 | LuitvD | :( |
| 18:09.11 | woglinde | sucky montevista |
| 18:09.16 | koen | MVMD! |
| 18:10.56 | mjm | wtf |
| 18:10.56 | LuitvD | but it's possible to get a 2.6.19 running, with the right attempts ... right? |
| 18:10.58 | LuitvD | with the right hacking... |
| 18:10.58 | koen | LuitvD: ask the people on #openezx |
| 18:10.59 | mjm | counter |
| 18:10.59 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 08:54:40 (5.371 +-5.4 days) (729,142) |
| 18:10.59 | mjm | woglinde: ty |
| 18:11.11 | LuitvD | koen: oeh, thanks for mentioning openezx :D that's what I was looking for |
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| 18:11.59 | koen | LuitvD: http://poh9.blogspot.com/2007/03/openmoko-dialer-ngstrm-magician.html |
| 18:13.32 | mickeyl | zecke: i'll repush the ones responsible :/ |
| 18:13.40 | LuitvD | koen: this was the info I was looking for :) http://wiki.openezx.org/Rokr_E6 |
| 18:13.53 | zecke | mickeyl: rate my GSoC proposal :) |
| 18:16.02 | *** part/#openmoko mjm (n=mjm@hotel.sierrabravo.net) |
| 18:16.59 | dyrne | d/topic |
| 18:17.06 | dyrne | hmm |
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| 18:21.53 | buz | LuitvD: you buying an E6? |
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| 18:25.14 | LuitvD | buz: I think I actually will yes |
| 18:25.30 | buz | but no wifi and qvga? that's sooo 2005 |
| 18:25.30 | LuitvD | buz: if e28 ain't responding, I'll go for moto |
| 18:25.36 | LuitvD | heheheh |
| 18:25.50 | LuitvD | bluetooth and 2MP cam is good enaugh |
| 18:26.09 | LuitvD | GPRS + 1GB data bundle :) |
| 18:26.14 | LuitvD | don't need wifi for that |
| 18:26.45 | buz | i wont support moto |
| 18:27.00 | buz | all phones i've seen from them were truly crappy quality |
| 18:28.48 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 18:29.04 | LuitvD | which ones have you tried? |
| 18:29.37 | buz | rarzs, v3i, v360 |
| 18:29.45 | buz | no candybar though |
| 18:29.54 | SpeedEvil | Anyone comment on the UK 'Orange World' service? |
| 18:31.49 | buz | if its anything like the swiss one consider it useless |
| 18:32.19 | SpeedEvil | It's unclear if it's a walled garden or not. |
| 18:32.26 | SpeedEvil | At least from the webpage. |
| 18:32.26 | LuitvD | if it's anything like the dutch one consider it useless too |
| 18:32.37 | buz | its a walled garden |
| 18:32.43 | buz | supposedly it can send email |
| 18:32.47 | buz | but thats it |
| 18:33.01 | SpeedEvil | I was worried by 'It's like the internet in your pocket' being used often. |
| 18:33.11 | SpeedEvil | rather than 'it is' |
| 18:33.23 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 18:33.27 | buz | in switzerland the page explicitely states different traffic rates for inet and orange word |
| 18:33.30 | buz | world |
| 18:34.04 | SpeedEvil | What I'm annoyed about is that at the moment I have credit rating problems. |
| 18:34.33 | SpeedEvil | So possibly may not be able to get a pay-monthly contract, for reasonable priced data. |
| 18:34.54 | SpeedEvil | Even though I could actually pay upfront for 12 or 18 months. |
| 18:35.30 | buz | some of my usually near bankrupt friends always managed to get postpaid contracts |
| 18:36.30 | buz | around here they usually actively push away from prepaid |
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| 18:47.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] |
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| 18:53.40 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1632 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-calculator/ (18 files in 4 dirs): initial import of openmoko-calculator 0.0.3 courtesy Rodolphe Ortalo <rodolphe.ortalo@free.fr> |
| 18:53.59 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1633 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/applications.pro: add openmoko-calculator to applications.pro |
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| 19:04.02 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1634 10/trunk/oe/packages/ (2 files in 2 dirs): oe: add recipe for openmoko-calculator |
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| 19:05.41 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1635 10/trunk/oe/packages/ipkg/ (5 files in 2 dirs): oe: reintroduce our ipkg overlay to make the updated patch sitting in files/ effective |
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| 19:07.33 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1636 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-inputmethods/openmoko-keyboard_svn.bb: oe: bump openmoko-keyboard recipe to make overlay active |
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| 19:28.06 | philippe | are there sources for libgsmd or some development headers somewhere? |
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| 19:30.05 | pH5 | philippe: either bitbake libgsmd or look in openmoko svn src/target/gsm |
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| 19:30.14 | philippe | ok. just found |
| 19:30.18 | philippe | thanks pH5 :-) |
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| 19:44.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[UI_Improvements]] [[Applications]] |
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| 20:05.21 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1637 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-core.patch s3c_mci_platform.patch): extend the per-platform set_power() function of s3mci to also be able to send 'power off' events to the per-platform callback function. |
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| 20:19.26 | dho | counter |
| 20:19.26 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 07:50:17 (5.327 +-5.3 days) (730,143) |
| 20:19.30 | dho | yay :) |
| 20:21.04 | CM | I just hope they find whatever bug there is in the hardware or software |
| 20:21.26 | LarstiQ | likewise I hope it's a bug in the software |
| 20:21.54 | koen | 3 days later and harald pulls a mosquito out of the assembly machine |
| 20:22.01 | CM | But, personally, I don't care if it's a month late.. I'll be on vacation almost all of April, then moving to a new apartment May 1:st ;) |
| 20:22.03 | LarstiQ | koen: heh :) |
| 20:22.19 | CM | :-P |
| 20:22.25 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:22.40 | LarstiQ | koen: I suppose that means you're not willing to transfer it to me? ;) |
| 20:22.59 | woglinde | hehe |
| 20:24.23 | dho | I care if it's a month late. |
| 20:24.26 | SpeedEvil | Personally - P0 wouldn't be very interesting to me. P0, with GPS driver, maybe. |
| 20:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p549506c8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:24.41 | dho | My student's SoC project likely can't complete if it's a month late |
| 20:24.47 | dho | :( |
| 20:25.10 | dho | I mean, I guess we could do reference implementation work, but that's kinda lame :\ |
| 20:25.18 | CM | dho: I don't think it will be that late even if there's some hardware bug |
| 20:25.24 | *** join/#openmoko Hiimmoe (i=bella@c-68-34-153-73.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 20:25.35 | SpeedEvil | Worst case, it could be a reroll. |
| 20:25.48 | CM | dho: What SoC project? |
| 20:25.52 | SpeedEvil | If for example it's a misroute under a BGA, and can't be wired round. |
| 20:25.56 | dho | Porting Plan 9 to the Neo1973 |
| 20:26.09 | CM | SpeedEvil: (I don't think he means System on a Chip) ;) |
| 20:26.12 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-113-224.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:26.29 | CM | dho: Cool :) |
| 20:26.44 | SpeedEvil | CM: I was talking of your comment. |
| 20:27.08 | CM | SpeedEvil: I know, i refered to last time SoC was mentione here :) |
| 20:27.12 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
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| 20:42.16 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1638 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/: Neo1973 emulator (Initial import). |
| 20:42.41 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] [[Wishlist:PilotDB]] [[Wishlist:PersonalWiki]] [[Wishlist:EggTimer]] |
| 20:46.38 | dho | er |
| 20:46.44 | dho | ok |
| 20:47.05 | dho | Including devices? |
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| 20:50.39 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1639 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (101 files): Populate qemu-neo1973 main directory. |
| 20:50.56 | dho | er |
| 20:51.10 | dho | But I'm not seeing that directory? :S |
| 20:52.05 | dho | Oh, I had some screwed up svn settings |
| 20:52.11 | balrog-kun | dho: https://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ |
| 20:52.20 | balrog-kun | hmm, it seems my svn is also screwed |
| 20:52.33 | balrog-kun | it won't add subdirectories for some reason |
| 20:54.58 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-114-172.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 20:55.32 | dho | I just blew it away and tried again |
| 20:55.47 | dho | jesus |
| 20:56.27 | dho | Which code is the neo code? |
| 20:57.28 | roh | ? |
| 20:57.56 | dho | I'm assuming the point of this is to have neo1973 drivers in there :) Was wondering if any of that was already there. |
| 20:58.50 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: how long would such a reroll take? |
| 20:59.05 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 20:59.36 | SpeedEvil | Physically if you order a large quantity of boards, and get them assembled, you can probably get them out the door in a couple of weeks absolute minimum. |
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| 20:59.55 | balrog-kun | dho: still committing, i made a stupid error and the subdirectories didn't get in yet |
| 20:59.56 | SpeedEvil | However, that would be with absolutely no testing other than 'it boots'. |
| 21:00.03 | dho | balrog-kun: ah ok |
| 21:00.23 | balrog-kun | i'm a noob :( |
| 21:00.23 | dho | balrog-kun: you're andrew@ then? |
| 21:00.26 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: so a month at least then |
| 21:00.31 | balrog-kun | dho: yes, that's me |
| 21:00.31 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 21:00.58 | SpeedEvil | If the problem with this version can be fixed in software... |
| 21:00.59 | dho | balrog-kun: good to know :) |
| 21:01.16 | SpeedEvil | then they may feel confident enough to order a large batch of V4 |
| 21:01.23 | balrog-kun | this upload will take a while on my cable |
| 21:01.42 | dho | balrog-kun: So is this inclusive of neo device emulators? |
| 21:02.10 | SpeedEvil | there are halfway houses, for example, you can order 500 PCBs, 500 sets of components, and then only stick components on 50 of them, until you've tested them. |
| 21:02.11 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: oh sure, I meant in case of a reroll as you described |
| 21:02.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03andrew * r1640 10/trunk/src/host/qemu-neo1973/ (405 files in 24 dirs): |
| 21:02.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Import all of the hardware emulation. |
| 21:02.18 | CIA-16 | openmoko: The qemu tree should be buildable and usable from this point. |
| 21:02.27 | balrog-kun | dho: yes, although there is no BT (yet), no GSM and no GPS (for obvious reasons) |
| 21:02.54 | SpeedEvil | That cuts costs as you then only have to eat the costs of 50 sets of hardware and 500 PCBs, rather than 500 of both, but if it works, you can make 500 without waiting for the PCB. |
| 21:02.59 | dho | balrog-kun: Having a serial device that says ``you poked bit abc'' for implementing the other end of the GSM and GPS serial spec should be ok for that though. |
| 21:03.06 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: right |
| 21:03.15 | dho | balrog-kun: What's BT? And is there anything I can do to help out with this? This is extremely useful for me. |
| 21:03.22 | SpeedEvil | BlueTooth |
| 21:03.25 | dho | Ok |
| 21:03.48 | SpeedEvil | For GPS emulators, you don't need it. |
| 21:03.52 | balrog-kun | dho: well, you can see what's being output on the serials by the OS and you can type from keyboard a fake response from the "hardware", or you can have a serial console |
| 21:03.55 | SpeedEvil | gpsd already has a 'fake' mode. |
| 21:04.00 | balrog-kun | dho: bluetooth |
| 21:04.07 | dho | Right |
| 21:04.27 | SpeedEvil | And the gps on the neo doesn't output serial. |
| 21:04.35 | SpeedEvil | Well - not 'normal' serial. |
| 21:04.44 | balrog-kun | hmm right |
| 21:04.56 | dho | Explain? |
| 21:05.05 | SpeedEvil | It talks to a binary plugin which talks to gpsd |
| 21:05.11 | dho | Oh. |
| 21:05.13 | SpeedEvil | the rest of the software talks to gpsd |
| 21:05.21 | dho | Reversing that should be simple. |
| 21:05.21 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-114-172.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:05.23 | SpeedEvil | gpsd is a standard bit of software. |
| 21:05.24 | balrog-kun | dho: i think everyone is welcome to help adding more hardware, and otherwise i think there's not much to do, i'd be happy to here if it works for anyone, and perhaps a good howto on the wiki would be good to have as qemu has *tons* of options |
| 21:05.32 | balrog-kun | *hear |
| 21:05.40 | dho | balrog-kun: Well I'll try to get it building on FreeBSD |
| 21:05.48 | dho | balrog-kun: This will be amazingly useful for the Plan 9 port. |
| 21:06.29 | balrog-kun | dho: it's not guaranteed to build ok under FreeBSD, i think the ports version has some custom patches |
| 21:06.34 | SpeedEvil | user-mode-plan9? |
| 21:06.43 | dho | SpeedEvil: no |
| 21:06.46 | dho | balrog-kun: It does |
| 21:06.55 | dho | SpeedEvil: native |
| 21:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko Cyphi^ (n=cyphi@a91-153-114-172.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:09.44 | dho | balrog-kun: What version of qemu is this? |
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| 21:11.55 | balrog-kun | dho: some three weeks ago snapshot, i'm waiting for Paul Brook to merge some changes he promissed to merge before i update |
| 21:12.22 | dho | Ok. |
| 21:13.04 | dho | I'm going to try to build this now. |
| 21:13.22 | balrog-kun | thanks |
| 21:17.40 | dho | yay it's going to be a pita! |
| 21:20.22 | balrog-kun | last time i tried building undef FreeBSD, not using ports, it was just a couple of errors |
| 21:20.32 | balrog-kun | it generally worked |
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| 21:30.03 | dho | balrog-kun: So just running ``make'' in here should build neo1973 support? |
| 21:30.55 | balrog-kun | dho: provided that arm-softmmu (or was it arm-system) is in the list of targets chosen by ./configure, yes |
| 21:36.09 | dho | here we go.... |
| 21:39.30 | dho | cc -o qemu-system-arm... |
| 21:39.33 | dho | gmake[1]: Leaving directory `/usr/ports/emulators/qemu-1973/work/qemu-neo1973/arm-softmmu' |
| 21:39.36 | dho | :) |
| 21:41.49 | dho | balrog-kun: Is there a firmware image to use with this? |
| 21:42.23 | dho | (navigating around the snapshots directory, I'm not sure where to find what I'm looking for) |
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| 21:42.59 | balrog-kun | dho: well, there is an easy way to get OpenMoko up and running, and i'm writing the HOWTO on the wiki at this moment about how it works |
| 21:43.18 | dho | also http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/laforge/tmp/rootfs/rootfs.jffs2 is a 404 |
| 21:43.43 | dho | balrog-kun: Ok, I'll wait for that. |
| 21:43.54 | balrog-kun | dho: basically, in the qemu directory, where you did "make", you run "openmoko/download.sh" and then "openmoko/flash.sh", this is the easiest way as far as i can tell |
| 21:44.05 | balrog-kun | it's very much experimental but it should work |
| 21:44.16 | balrog-kun | and if it doesn't work i will be also happy to hear about it |
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| 21:50.43 | dho | BAH |
| 21:50.46 | dho | it's bash :( |
| 21:51.14 | balrog-kun | oh, right |
| 21:51.18 | balrog-kun | i don't have sh installed |
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| 21:51.51 | balrog-kun | dho: do you know which bits are the bash specific ones? |
| 21:52.05 | dho | anything [[ |
| 21:52.54 | dho | Why can't that just be if [ ] |
| 21:52.56 | balrog-kun | also the code of these scripts is extremely ugly (unlike the emulator code) |
| 21:53.08 | balrog-kun | it can |
| 21:53.54 | balrog-kun | i consider these scripts a temporary solution basically, but it would be good to get them fixed |
| 21:53.59 | dho | ok |
| 21:55.01 | dho | ./splashimg.pl System_boot.png > splash |
| 21:55.01 | dho | 480 x 640 (255) |
| 21:55.02 | dho | gzip -c < > splash.gz |
| 21:55.02 | dho | Syntax error: redirection unexpected |
| 21:55.02 | dho | *** Error code 2 |
| 21:55.18 | balrog-kun | oh, GNU make |
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| 21:55.32 | balrog-kun | the scripts should probably use "gmake" |
| 21:55.49 | dho | Ah I see |
| 21:55.57 | rwhitby | heh, any build system these days assumes gnu make :-) |
| 21:56.05 | dho | not ours :( |
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| 21:56.26 | dho | stat: illegal option -- c |
| 21:56.31 | LarstiQ | dho: please tell me it doesn't expect imake though? :) |
| 21:56.39 | dho | nah, bsdmake of course. |
| 21:56.48 | dho | Or if we're talking about Plan 9, mk |
| 21:56.59 | dho | also, ls: uImage-2.6-*-fic-gta01.bin: No such file or directory <-- where should I have gotten that from? |
| 21:57.21 | balrog-kun | dho: download.sh should have downloaded it for you |
| 21:57.36 | balrog-kun | there's an url in "openmoko/env" to some images |
| 21:57.41 | dho | Oh |
| 21:57.51 | dho | No, it downloads a bunch of index.htmls |
| 21:57.52 | dho | ah |
| 21:57.57 | dho | lynx: invalid option: -listonly |
| 21:57.57 | balrog-kun | ouch |
| 21:59.14 | SpeedEvil | How does AAC work on neo? |
| 21:59.51 | dho | Lynx Version 2.8.5rel.4 (25 Oct 2005) -> I think that should be -hiddenlinks=listonly for that version |
| 21:59.54 | LarstiQ | hmm, does the itms work without itunes? |
| 21:59.56 | dho | now it's downloading stuff. |
| 22:00.57 | dho | what's stat -c supposed to do |
| 22:01.11 | SpeedEvil | Itunes have recently announced you can now buy (some) stuff DRM free. |
| 22:01.31 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: yay, P60 time :) |
| 22:01.46 | roh | SpeedEvil i think nobody tested... i'll see if i get around to compile some command line player soon, to try out |
| 22:02.14 | balrog-kun | dho: output the filesize iirc |
| 22:02.32 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: aye, that is how I interpreted your aac question |
| 22:03.13 | LarstiQ | SpeedEvil: xmms2 supports aac, I haven't tested it but I think it shouldn't have a lot of trouble running on the neo |
| 22:04.23 | roh | SpeedEvil its only a question if its fast enough.. but it'll eat battery much faster than e.g. mp3 |
| 22:05.20 | mmp | when speaking about battery - what is estimated call time/standby time for P1 ? |
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| 22:25.09 | dho | well that failed miserably |
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| 22:25.14 | Stephmw | Wheeeeeeeeeeeeeee, love those netsplits |
| 22:25.21 | dho | yeah, that's not working at all, heh. |
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| 22:25.24 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1641 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-menu-box.c: libmokoui: force application and filter menu to always be of a certain size. closes #130 |
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| 22:25.28 | dho | balrog-kun: maybe you'll have a better idea what's goign on |
| 22:25.28 | dho | balrog-kun: http://www.databits.net/~dho/typescript.txt |
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| 22:25.31 | balrog-kun | dho: almost for sure "echo" is misbehaving |
| 22:25.31 | balrog-kun | other than that all the errors you see except the bad block ones, are part of the process and ar ok |
| 22:25.33 | balrog-kun | dho: it basically means that the emulator works :) |
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| 22:26.11 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1642 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-calculator/po/POTFILES.in: openmoko-calculator: add missing POTFILES.in. closes #380 and #384 |
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| 22:38.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_under_QEMU]] [[FAQ]] |
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| 23:02.46 | high-rez | counter |
| 23:02.46 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 06:28:37 (5.270 +-5.3 days) (731,143) |
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| 23:10.10 | SpeedEvil | The LCD, speakers, vibrator, case don't change at all. |
| 23:11.00 | SpeedEvil | If the V4 bugs aren't too bad - and they have already made some hardware, it would cost little to send out the hardware now, with V4, with the V5 board to follow. |
| 23:11.43 | SpeedEvil | As any existing V4 boards - if they are not bugfixable - will be going in the trash. (if there are lots) |
| 23:12.23 | roh | harald got his first v4 board today, so give it a few days to check for bugs before they fire up the factory again |
| 23:13.32 | high-rez | What are "the bugs"? |
| 23:13.49 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 23:13.59 | CoreDump|home | the didn't state any details in the announce mail |
| 23:14.21 | roh | high-rez mostly gpio and irq as well as pmu changes.. small things which need to be sorted out |
| 23:14.48 | SpeedEvil | So some may be 'oops''s - like the 64M bug. |
| 23:15.02 | SpeedEvil | And some may be actual hardware bugs. |
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| 23:15.43 | high-rez | Aha. |
| 23:15.47 | roh | e.g. the data and addresslines on the debug connector are gone. so the device doesn't get instable if running on 266mhz with debugboard attached |
| 23:16.10 | roh | besides we don't use em and need em. |
| 23:16.11 | CoreDump|home | neat |
| 23:17.51 | SpeedEvil | What's the leadtime between the trigger being pulled, and boxes shipping to users? |
| 23:18.12 | high-rez | Yeah, when can I put one in my lab. :D |
| 23:18.21 | roh | SpeedEvil dunno.. we'll see ;) |
| 23:18.51 | SpeedEvil | I think it's safe to assume that the counter needs put back three weeksish though. |
| 23:18.55 | SpeedEvil | :/ |
| 23:19.12 | high-rez | ouch |
| 23:19.15 | roh | who set it that way at all and why? |
| 23:19.22 | SpeedEvil | Announcements. |
| 23:19.33 | SpeedEvil | Previous announcements. |
| 23:20.06 | roh | ah... ok.. but we'll know more anyways in a week or so.. |
| 23:20.09 | high-rez | As long as the basic RF section works, that's what I want to test. ;) |
| 23:20.18 | high-rez | so send me a bad board. ;) |
| 23:20.23 | high-rez | I got a BS i can hook it upto now. |
| 23:20.53 | roh | what do you wanna do with it? |
| 23:21.35 | high-rez | roh: Play with it in the lab, test it against all of the equiptment we have. And ultimately - but not now write a custom app. |
| 23:21.37 | roh | the rf parts (gsm) are unchanged afaik. |
| 23:22.04 | roh | high-rez: you have gsm-test equipment around? |
| 23:22.09 | high-rez | roh: yeah |
| 23:22.21 | balrog-kun | i rarely use a mobile phone |
| 23:22.25 | roh | nice. i'd be glad to get your results |
| 23:23.05 | high-rez | ericsson bs's, nokia bs's, nortel bs's, a whole array of bsc's msc's etc etc etc. A bunch of HSDPA/HSUPA gear to - not that it would help with this device. ;) |
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| 23:28.44 | don-o | counter |
| 23:28.44 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 5 days 06:15:38 (5.261 +-5.3 days) (732,143) |
| 23:29.10 | SpeedEvil | high-rez: you never know, maybe you'll find the secret HSDPA jumper! :) |
| 23:29.30 | don-o | surely there is interesting stuff going on 5 days from 'launch' |
| 23:30.42 | wookieface | yes:p |
| 23:31.18 | SpeedEvil | Alas, it looks like >5 days. |
| 23:31.47 | SpeedEvil | Probably at least 14, more likely 20-30. |
| 23:31.59 | SpeedEvil | Optimistically. |
| 23:32.10 | don-o | SpeedEvil: oh yeah? could you get someone to blog about that? or are you one of the people on the planet? |
| 23:32.42 | Vegar | does the on-screen keyboard have a dvorak layout? |
| 23:33.27 | SpeedEvil | roh earlier said that there is one board, and it'll need approval before the factory makes more, so that's at least a couple of weeks delay, even if the current problems turn out to be software fixable. |
| 23:34.14 | SpeedEvil | Dvorak'd probably be easy to add if it doesn't have it. |
| 23:34.28 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[Neo1973]] |
| 23:35.07 | roh | SpeedEvil doesn't need to be. if the testing is done and no other changes are made the production can happen __very__ fast. i dunno about shipping |
| 23:35.42 | roh | don't forget that we are moving extemely fast right now. i've never seen this before... developing in hyperspace |
| 23:36.08 | SpeedEvil | yeah - if the issues get resolved in the next couple of days, and there is no need for a hardware respin, it _could_ happen in a bit over a week. |
| 23:36.59 | SpeedEvil | Assuming all the components are sitting on the shelf somewhere and it's only PCBs that are being waited on. |
| 23:37.21 | roh | SpeedEvil the parts are already there, yep |
| 23:37.48 | roh | so no panic. you will get your playthings soon enough |
| 23:38.11 | SpeedEvil | Assuming no hardware respin - which would delay a little, for another testing cycle. |
| 23:39.00 | SpeedEvil | ATM I'm just doing paper development, which isn't really constrained by lack of hardware. |
| 23:41.44 | high-rez | I wanna touch the thing. |
| 23:41.45 | high-rez | :) |
| 23:42.12 | CoreDump|home | high-rez: indeed you want. It has a special feel to it =) |
| 23:43.00 | high-rez | I'm surrounded by devices, but this one has the potential to not suck (read: not symbian or RIM). |
| 23:50.48 | _ASK | http://standardos.wikidot.com/introduction |
| 23:51.59 | don-o | roh: can you put some of that juicy info into planet.openmoko? |
| 23:52.11 | don-o | inquiring minds want to know |
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| 23:55.23 | roh | don-o planet is just an aggregator so someone needs to blog |
| 23:56.32 | don-o | roh: i assumed from your authoritatve tone you were a core dev and probably were already one of the aggregated blogs. :) |
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| 23:59.31 | roh | don-o i work for openmoko but i do not blog (and hopefully will not be forced to ;) |
