| 00:14.08 | *** join/#openmoko inz (i=inz@maemo-hackers.org) |
| 00:17.30 | ebel | I want to install xoo, but I'm using powerpc linux. How do I change the "build/conf/local.conf"? |
| 00:18.04 | ebel | 'ppc' or 'powerpc' give an error about the target arch/machine/distro. |
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| 00:18.52 | ebel | Probably a uncommon problem... :) |
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| 00:37.42 | cjb | weird. usb0 disappears adter the moko finishes booting here |
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| 00:43.03 | Dtu3ZOhtln | holy crap, lots of ppl here |
| 00:47.16 | cjb | so, I'm trying to update the modules for the installed kernel |
| 00:47.26 | cjb | and I want to use the micro-SD card to do so |
| 00:47.54 | cjb | how do I mount the micro-SD? does it require something that isn't built into the kernel? (in which case, how *am* I supposed to upgrade modules in userspace?) |
| 00:50.31 | balrog-kun | i was wondering the same |
| 00:50.49 | cjb | looks like I use usb networking to scp it. |
| 00:51.25 | balrog-kun | what i did now, was make a new partition in the flash, where i programmed the modules tarball from u-boot |
| 00:51.32 | cjb | hah |
| 00:51.39 | cjb | I think scp is easier :) |
| 00:51.45 | balrog-kun | as i don't have bt or usb |
| 00:52.01 | cjb | ah |
| 00:59.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
| 01:08.55 | rwhitby | cjb: you're supposed to use ipkg upgrade to update modules in userspace. |
| 01:09.27 | rwhitby | (rsync your OE tmp/deploy/ipk dir to the machine that has usbnet connectivity to the neo, then change /etc/ipkg/base.conf on the neo to install packages from there.) |
| 01:21.10 | *** join/#openmoko s34n (n=chatzill@ip-206-159-190-125.mvdsl.com) |
| 01:22.05 | s34n | I hope FIC pays attention to discussions like http://ask.slashdot.org/askslashdot/07/03/30/2059243.shtml |
| 01:23.25 | s34n | What is in place to allow the device to be used completely blind? |
| 01:27.05 | rwhitby | s34n: the device isn't useable by sighted persons yet ... |
| 01:27.17 | CoreDump|afk | =D |
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| 01:28.59 | s34n | it looks like all touch screen controls |
| 01:29.45 | CoreDump|afk | s34n: it is |
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| 01:34.21 | zecke | hey |
| 01:34.34 | zecke | LaF0rge: thanks for installing svn |
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| 01:55.13 | peepsalot | I think it's kind of silly that people keep mentioning how a blind person will use the Neo1973. The hardware is just not conducive to that sort of use. As OpenMoko progresses there will hopefully be many more devices made to run it |
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| 01:55.44 | peepsalot | including ones with tactile buttons, etc. until then, if you are blind, uh, don't get a neo |
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| 02:21.39 | DukeOfURL | http://levelstar.com/ |
| 02:21.49 | DukeOfURL | Their next mod is a GSM chip. |
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| 02:42.32 | cjb | the usb0 interface is being extremely flaky. |
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| 03:24.08 | cjb | Hmph. Scheduling while atomic: klogd. |
| 03:31.46 | Moo^^ | any hope that ne could run mono apps on openmoko? |
| 03:32.01 | Moo^^ | that would ease app development when you don't need to have ugly c code :) |
| 03:32.33 | cjb | *shrug* sure, if you have the disk space. |
| 03:32.50 | Moo^^ | I was thinking that MS has .Net ported to Windows phones |
| 03:32.59 | Moo^^ | how they managed to shrink footprint? |
| 03:33.11 | mjr | well, there's the memory limitations too, but I suppose one can fit some mono stuff in that too... |
| 03:33.38 | Moo^^ | good morning mjr :) |
| 03:33.40 | mjr | I'd rather just python |
| 03:34.00 | Moo^^ | that was what I thought |
| 03:34.01 | Moo^^ | first |
| 03:34.45 | cjb | hm, I should find a kernel that doesn't crash |
| 03:35.08 | Moo^^ | but then, I realized that if we can compile python to CLR and make CLR work on the phone 1) the platform becomes language neutral 2) we get all those .net goodies 3) mono project benefits 4) microsoft has done it already |
| 03:35.13 | dho | then don't use linux! *rimshot* |
| 03:35.34 | Moo^^ | another choice would be romify .net code, maybe use GCC to compile it to native? |
| 03:35.37 | Moo^^ | or pypy |
| 03:35.38 | dho | isn't there already a python to il compiler? |
| 03:35.47 | Moo^^ | dho: ironpython |
| 03:35.53 | mjr | well, yeah, ironpy... right |
| 03:36.09 | mjr | 'course, there's also jython ;P |
| 03:36.12 | Moo^^ | instead of going CPython runtime, I'd go for Mono |
| 03:36.35 | Moo^^ | I worked on Tao platform which compiles Java to native embedded runtime |
| 03:36.47 | Moo^^ | not that glorious thing, but it might "thight loops" as one could say |
| 03:36.59 | Moo^^ | you had full J2SE run-time in 64 mbit rom |
| 03:37.03 | Moo^^ | + phone stuff too |
| 03:37.16 | Moo^^ | and kernel, and others |
| 03:41.13 | unknown_lamer | common lisp is nicer ;-) |
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| 04:01.29 | cjb | anyone know how to get into u-boot with the latest u-boot? |
| 04:01.54 | cjb | when I just tap the button it turns itself back off again immediately, when I hold it down it boots, but it boots in such a way that doesn't let me drop to the u-boot prompt. |
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| 05:36.38 | Mandarino | Hi |
| 05:36.40 | Mandarino | counter |
| 05:36.40 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 15:11:40 (6.633 +-6.6 days) (694,132) |
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| 06:40.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] |
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| 07:02.49 | Mandarino | Somebody awake? |
| 07:15.06 | rwhitby | Mandarino: somewhere in the world ... |
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| 07:21.02 | Mandarino | w0w |
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| 07:21.11 | Mandarino | How are you rwhitby ? |
| 07:21.39 | rwhitby | good. yourself? |
| 07:22.12 | Mandarino | Today is saturday and I'm working... It's not good... |
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| 07:23.49 | Mandarino | I hate eclipse :( |
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| 07:26.22 | ewanm89mob | counter |
| 07:26.23 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 14:16:48 (6.595 +-6.6 days) (695,132) |
| 07:28.28 | Mandarino | Next friday |
| 07:31.50 | ewanm89mob | yep, can't wait. Got to find some funding though! |
| 07:33.26 | ewanm89mob | bye |
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| 08:16.29 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1585 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/files/uboot-20070311-tools_makefile_ln_sf.patch: add uboot patch required for building (sorry for missing it) |
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| 08:22.26 | _ASK_ | do they have a set of standards for openmoko? |
| 08:26.45 | _ASK_ | for example, how multitasking is supposed to work? |
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| 08:35.54 | Mandarino | _ASK_: no idea... |
| 08:36.31 | _ASK_ | that's the problem, they are repeating the mistakes of desktop linux |
| 08:37.20 | Speedy2 | It'll end up another Zaurus. |
| 08:37.47 | _ASK_ | and that means? |
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| 08:38.05 | koen | that lots of people start cl0ning and install debian in a chroot |
| 08:39.10 | _ASK_ | no, i mean, there are too many things stacker on top of each other |
| 08:39.14 | _ASK_ | stacked |
| 08:39.35 | _ASK_ | providing people with all the functionality thei might dream about |
| 08:39.48 | _ASK_ | but without really meeting end user expectations |
| 08:40.20 | koen | I'm not affraid of that |
| 08:40.24 | _ASK_ | i just saw a movie about the neo making a call |
| 08:40.35 | _ASK_ | andand it's awful slow |
| 08:41.04 | _ASK_ | and i was wondering why do people want X gui_over_network. |
| 08:41.10 | koen | if you use the default theme, yes |
| 08:41.20 | koen | _ASK_: over network? |
| 08:41.27 | _ASK_ | X protocol |
| 08:41.54 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu2y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 08:42.13 | koen | I know what the X protocol is and how it work, but I think you don't quite get it |
| 08:42.13 | Speedy2 | _ASK_: With the Zaurus Sharp figured they could ride "the Linux wave" and make a PDA out of it. Instead they made a half PDA. In typical Liunx fasion a lot of disjoint things were thrown together and it had/has issues. |
| 08:42.35 | _ASK_ | exactly |
| 08:42.52 | _ASK_ | it's different to throw a lot of things than to make an OS |
| 08:43.20 | _ASK_ | i was studying PalmOS in detail |
| 08:43.22 | koen | the zaurus was hilarious |
| 08:43.34 | Speedy2 | As opposed to PocketPC / WINCE which seems consistent, but it just behaves terribly. |
| 08:43.38 | _ASK_ | for a mobile OS it's pertty well designed |
| 08:43.57 | koen | you hire a million monkeys (lineo) hoping to get a kernel and install a half finished product (qt/e2) against the advice of the creators (TT) |
| 08:43.58 | Speedy2 | _ASK_: Original PalmOS "executive" was purchased / licensed. |
| 08:44.19 | _ASK_ | most of its problems are due to lacking memory protection and emulating motorola 68k |
| 08:45.12 | _ASK_ | but, for example, in the preferences panel, there is an area for custom applets |
| 08:45.21 | koen | As for your X FUD: "A common misconception is that X's network features result in excessive complexity if only used locally, and that X's network capabilities cause an undesirable performance hit; modern X implementations use local sockets and shared memory, requiring very little overhead." |
| 08:45.51 | Speedy2 | I used an HTC Wizard today. The hardware is impressive. The slowness of the GUI is amazing. |
| 08:45.59 | _ASK_ | the problem is not only how much CPU it consumes |
| 08:46.03 | _ASK_ | but also how much RAM |
| 08:46.59 | koen | 70MB of ram free on my neo with the dialer opened |
| 08:47.20 | _ASK_ | so 128-70 = 58mb just idle |
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| 08:48.28 | koen | including caches and stuff |
| 08:48.29 | _ASK_ | man, palm os ran on 2MB devices. |
| 08:48.34 | koen | so? |
| 08:48.42 | koen | DOS ran on 512K devices |
| 08:48.51 | _ASK_ | i doubt it gives you 30 times more functionality |
| 08:49.51 | _ASK_ | i would not mind, at all, if they manage to standarize things |
| 08:50.01 | _ASK_ | but i have the feeling that it won't happen |
| 08:50.18 | CM | I had X and fluxbox, 4 terms and dillo in 28mb ram on my old laptop |
| 08:50.20 | Speedy2 | _ASK_: Building a phone on top of something like eCos would be more like what you are suggesting. |
| 08:50.51 | _ASK_ | i wonder |
| 08:51.17 | _ASK_ | why people is against distributing binaries, for example? |
| 08:51.50 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 08:51.50 | Speedy2 | "because". |
| 08:52.26 | _ASK_ | if you have a precompiled program, then you get rid on the geeky mind. thing is, the OS must be able to run it, point. |
| 08:53.05 | sannes | _ASK_: there is nothing stopping anyone from distributing binaries, most distros does this? |
| 08:53.48 | balrog-kun | so does omoko |
| 08:54.52 | _ASK_ | linux, in general, is built upon the idea that you configure and compule |
| 08:54.54 | _ASK_ | compile |
| 08:55.23 | _ASK_ | most unix software in fact |
| 08:55.26 | _ASK_ | many paths are hardcoded |
| 08:55.45 | sannes | _ASK_: the correct question would be why are geeky people so pro distributing the code :) |
| 08:56.14 | balrog-kun | _ASK_: i think this is not anything to do with linux, |
| 08:56.43 | balrog-kun | software in general is built upon the idea that what's easiest for the author of the software is also easiest for the users |
| 08:57.15 | _ASK_ | i'm going to order my ideas and write a document later |
| 08:57.57 | _ASK_ | i don't know, i've seen the development of linux over time and it never feels really integrated |
| 08:58.37 | _ASK_ | there are like 1000 versions of a program that do 90% of the same work |
| 08:58.48 | koen | yes, all the bits of the kernel are scatter all over the room |
| 08:59.04 | _ASK_ | peole pulling to different directions |
| 08:59.12 | koen | linus should really glue them together for more 'integration' |
| 08:59.20 | _ASK_ | nah |
| 08:59.34 | koen | Or he should hire one of the Riemann heirs to do proper integration |
| 08:59.41 | _ASK_ | it's a psychological problem, i think |
| 08:59.53 | _ASK_ | people confuses political liberty with liberty on informatics |
| 09:00.06 | koen | people confuse the kernel with the userspace apps |
| 09:00.31 | _ASK_ | i know linux is just the kernel, but linux is marketed as a whole OS |
| 09:00.52 | koen | no, people confuse the kernel with the userspace apps |
| 09:00.54 | _ASK_ | probably that's the problem |
| 09:01.02 | _ASK_ | as long as linux is just the kernel and not an OS... |
| 09:02.23 | balrog-kun | the OS is redhat or debian, and they're fully based on binaries and the idea that you *shouldn't* configure and compile yourself |
| 09:02.44 | _ASK_ | tell me a single distro that does it |
| 09:02.47 | koen | gentoo ruined it for everyone ;) |
| 09:03.29 | koen | balrog-kun: and more important, debian/freebsd and nexenta (ubuntu on solaris kernel) exist |
| 09:03.30 | _ASK_ | one distro which allows you to install it, to configure it, without having to download anything from internet, without installing a patch, touching a text file or anything |
| 09:04.50 | _ASK_ | i once read an article about social development; they mention a case about weapons and war in general |
| 09:05.43 | _ASK_ | they say "why if there are better weapons we keep using the old ones?" |
| 09:06.13 | _ASK_ | "because in the army what matters is logistics; if we changed weapons and calibers each week, we could not fight at all" |
| 09:07.11 | Speedy2 | "linux" does not have a consistent or unified vision. It's one million people doing one million things and sometimes their goals align. |
| 09:07.25 | _ASK_ | well, that's my point |
| 09:08.27 | _ASK_ | we should try to convince people that they are not just coding a few lines, but contributing to a much higher goal |
| 09:09.49 | _ASK_ | it's a responsibility |
| 09:10.13 | sannes | _ASK_ : show me the code :P |
| 09:10.33 | balrog-kun | i code for fun and i don't want to be convinced that i should align to something |
| 09:10.44 | balrog-kun | (unless when i code for money) |
| 09:10.54 | _ASK_ | mmm, how bad |
| 09:10.57 | sannes | or the money, time and effort .. |
| 09:11.23 | _ASK_ | developers make a community, with or without a board of directors. |
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| 09:14.10 | _ASK_ | "Only too often on meeting scientific men, even those of genuine distinction, one finds that they are dull fellows and very stupid. They know one thing to excess; they know nothing else. Pursuing facts to doggedly and unimaginatively, they miss all the charming things that are not facts. Such scientists are responsible for the poor name which science so frequently carries among plain men. ... |
| 09:14.11 | _ASK_ | ...They radiate the impression that its service is dehumanizing — that too much learning, like too little learning, is an unpleasant and dangerous thing. " |
| 09:14.35 | _ASK_ | having too much knowledge about computers and too little about politics is a bad thing. |
| 09:18.11 | _ASK_ | have a nice day/night guys. |
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| 09:32.08 | rwhitby | didn't realise this channel had turned into #openmoko-philosphy ... |
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| 09:32.24 | rwhitby | ..sophy |
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| 09:34.29 | buz | if he hates linux so much, why does he even care about an open phone |
| 09:34.30 | buz | idiot |
| 09:35.15 | koen | more like #openmoko-trolling |
| 09:35.23 | buz | yeah that seems more fitting |
| 09:35.25 | buz | counter |
| 09:35.25 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 13:12:17 (6.550 +-6.6 days) (696,132) |
| 09:35.33 | balrog-kun | i understand that the STANDBY mode (enabled in pcf50606) doesn't preserve ram contents? |
| 09:35.50 | koen | that would be weird |
| 09:36.08 | balrog-kun | it's the mode that u-boot switches to when you choose power-off in boot menu |
| 09:36.18 | koen | ah |
| 09:36.28 | madwoota | trolls, gotta love em |
| 09:36.39 | balrog-kun | it doesn't poke the cpu, and i think you need to talk about the modes to the cpu first if you want to preserve ram |
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| 09:43.35 | PBeck | hi |
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| 09:58.55 | Mandarino | Darkness surrounding my life... |
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| 11:43.28 | PBeck | hm i have a question => is it possible to ask tomtom to port it on the neo? |
| 11:43.48 | PBeck | i think tomtom run on a linux device, right? |
| 11:44.35 | CM | They do |
| 11:44.36 | mjr | always possible to ask |
| 11:45.03 | PBeck | i will be the first to buy the software :D |
| 11:45.12 | CM | PBeck: You mean a binary blob program, and then pay for their maps and such? |
| 11:45.31 | PBeck | i think they have a good gui and the maps are good, so we can have a good navi software |
| 11:45.41 | CM | I like TomTom too |
| 11:45.54 | CM | But what hw do they need for those nice 3D maps? |
| 11:46.28 | PBeck | CM: tomtom is no opensource so we only can get a binary ;) |
| 11:46.35 | PBeck | *not |
| 11:46.53 | PBeck | but i dont think we can get a good opensource alternative |
| 11:46.59 | buz | tomtom should not have to do much porting |
| 11:47.02 | PBeck | create maps is hard work |
| 11:47.06 | CM | I think we can, but not as quickly |
| 11:47.08 | buz | they already run their devices on linux |
| 11:47.11 | PBeck | buz: yes i think so too |
| 11:48.05 | PBeck | buz: but we musst assure tomtom, that it will be a good idea to sell it for the neo ;) |
| 11:48.33 | buz | i wonder if you could get it to run right away maybe |
| 11:48.50 | buz | not sure how their gui works |
| 11:49.00 | PBeck | buz: how you mean? |
| 11:49.14 | buz | well maybe you could take the binary from some device and run it on neo :) |
| 11:49.20 | buz | i think they are using arm too |
| 11:49.34 | buz | MPF why can't i get thinkpads with intel950 in switzerland... |
| 11:49.38 | buz | only that ati crap |
| 11:49.45 | PBeck | buz: oh ok |
| 11:50.17 | PBeck | buz: but i think that would not be so easy ;) |
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| 11:50.29 | buz | in the us they ship the very model i want |
| 11:50.31 | buz | just not here |
| 11:51.28 | PBeck | buz: hm how should we ask tomtom? |
| 11:51.36 | buz | i dunnop |
| 11:51.46 | PBeck | sean or fic will be the best idea ;) |
| 11:52.09 | buz | probably |
| 11:52.21 | buz | but interest from community probably wouldnt hurt either |
| 11:52.34 | PBeck | with a car navi would the neo perfect |
| 11:52.41 | PBeck | *will |
| 11:53.12 | PBeck | hm should i ask on the mailinglist? |
| 11:53.17 | SpeedEvil | Why not. |
| 11:53.21 | SpeedEvil | OSM is cool. |
| 11:53.29 | PBeck | OSM? |
| 11:53.34 | SpeedEvil | But it's a _LONG_ way off production. |
| 11:53.40 | SpeedEvil | openstreetmap.org |
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| 11:54.00 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: yes you are right, but i think its not a alternative .. |
| 11:54.04 | buz | i doesnt even list major highways in switzerland |
| 11:54.07 | buz | much less other roads |
| 11:54.15 | PBeck | a company behind the software, maps and so on are besser |
| 11:54.18 | PBeck | *better |
| 11:54.31 | buz | yeah its too boring to draw maps |
| 11:54.41 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i will be very hard work |
| 11:54.45 | PBeck | *it |
| 11:54.58 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 11:55.04 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: and OSM have not very many maps |
| 11:55.23 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i would pay for a good software |
| 11:55.33 | PBeck | and i think tomtom is a good software |
| 11:56.07 | PBeck | we have not many options for a opensource navi software ;) |
| 11:57.16 | SpeedEvil | http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html?lat=56.19321236291454&lon=-3.165765060997736&zoom=12 is what I've done (click the + on the right then select osmarender for most of it. |
| 11:57.22 | SpeedEvil | tomtom is good. |
| 11:57.30 | PBeck | and we know why => it is hard work to create a map |
| 11:57.38 | SpeedEvil | The routing is the easy part. |
| 11:57.43 | SpeedEvil | It's the map that's hard. |
| 11:57.51 | PBeck | yes |
| 11:58.41 | SpeedEvil | There are _very_ few hotspots in OSM that are adequately mapped, by any stretch of the imagination. |
| 11:59.03 | SpeedEvil | It's only in the last week that all the trunk roads in scotland have been added. |
| 11:59.19 | SpeedEvil | There are places of 150K population with one road in them, ... |
| 11:59.27 | PBeck | hm tomtom on a microsd card will be a good idea, or? |
| 11:59.35 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 11:59.41 | SpeedEvil | If they'll play. |
| 11:59.58 | Mandarino | His Speedy :P |
| 12:00.00 | PBeck | if they'll play? |
| 12:00.10 | SpeedEvil | If they will cooperate. |
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| 12:00.17 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: ok |
| 12:00.29 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i write now a post for the mailinglist ;) |
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| 12:03.44 | Mandarino | SpeedEvil: do you know how works internally OSM? |
| 12:03.53 | Mandarino | How are adding maps... |
| 12:04.49 | Mandarino | I got an idea for Neo with OSM |
| 12:04.52 | pH5 | an easy to use osm map editor on the openmoko would be terrific. |
| 12:05.14 | pH5 | using josm is painful. |
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| 12:06.12 | SpeedEvil | It's not _that_ bad. |
| 12:06.18 | SpeedEvil | It could be a whole lot better. |
| 12:06.26 | SpeedEvil | recent versions are almost usable. |
| 12:06.51 | erdinger | you should remove the point in front of openmoko.org in your topic guys |
| 12:07.16 | SpeedEvil | Even an option to simply contribute GPS traces to OSM after a delay, anonymised. |
| 12:07.26 | SpeedEvil | erdinger: it's there for a point |
| 12:08.01 | SpeedEvil | The intention is to make it clear that you can pick one of the preceeding names - wiki, www, ...) and add it |
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| 12:08.11 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I don't think that's very clear. |
| 12:08.13 | erdinger | ah i see :) |
| 12:08.23 | erdinger | it's just that some poeple will get confused |
| 12:08.59 | erdinger | where can i buy? |
| 12:08.59 | aloril | erdinger: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:09.10 | SpeedEvil | not announced yet |
| 12:10.18 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54009E8D.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 12:10.30 | *** topic/#openmoko by SpeedEvil -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> wiki.openmoko.org <> Anyone can buy for $350 in a couple of weeks. Mass market in September. |
| 12:10.55 | *** part/#openmoko erdinger (n=erdinger@dslb-084-062-006-131.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
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| 12:11.15 | erdinger | hehe nice |
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| 12:11.54 | Mandarino | couple of weeks? |
| 12:11.56 | SpeedEvil | And the advantage is that the time in the topic stays right :) :/ |
| 12:12.10 | Mandarino | ¬_¬ counter |
| 12:12.12 | SpeedEvil | It's probably a week - though who knows. |
| 12:12.23 | Mandarino | you know :P |
| 12:12.24 | SpeedEvil | A couple of weeks is probably not a bad estimate. |
| 12:12.37 | SpeedEvil | I don't have any knowledge specifically. |
| 12:12.48 | SpeedEvil | Just that 'late march' is probably now wrong. |
| 12:21.30 | kiney_ | counter |
| 12:21.30 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 11:49:15 (6.493 +-6.5 days) (697,133) |
| 12:22.21 | buz | the interval steadily shrinks lol |
| 12:22.34 | buz | in the end it wil be today 1+- 0 |
| 12:23.31 | buz | surely fic would know by now if they planned to start shipping in a week |
| 12:25.35 | sannes | buz: I think that they are more into "it ships when it ships" instead of "it ships in a week, waaait scratch that, another week, noo .. wait scratch that again .. " atleast with P1 I guess .. heh |
| 12:26.03 | buz | well if it were to ship in a week, surely production would already have started? |
| 12:26.47 | sannes | true, but what if they had 0% yield? :P |
| 12:26.50 | SpeedEvil | Someone implied there was hardware. |
| 12:27.03 | buz | sannes: exactly |
| 12:27.08 | buz | so something could be wrong |
| 12:27.09 | SpeedEvil | 0% yield on testing would be a possibility. |
| 12:27.37 | buz | i wonder what kind of yield they'd need |
| 12:27.57 | SpeedEvil | It depends on the sort of yield too. |
| 12:28.04 | SpeedEvil | If it's 'randomly flaky' |
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| 12:28.14 | buz | well yield of perfectly working pcb's i guess |
| 12:28.20 | Psi_ | has anyone looked into using Lazarus for creating quick GUI apps for the neo? |
| 12:28.26 | SpeedEvil | then you pretty much can assume that some are flaky that you haven't noticed. |
| 12:28.34 | SpeedEvil | which will screw your P1 devs |
| 12:28.46 | buz | and create a lot of bad blood |
| 12:29.06 | mmp | Psi_: I'm just guessing, but glade might be more feasible way... |
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| 12:30.01 | sannes | heh, ugh, just realized that the hackers lunchbox is quite expensive .. heh |
| 12:30.17 | SpeedEvil | Moderately. |
| 12:30.19 | buz | sannes: basically, you dont need it |
| 12:30.23 | SpeedEvil | You should never need it. |
| 12:30.28 | buz | unless you plan on hacking uboot maybe |
| 12:30.39 | SpeedEvil | Unless you manage to screw uboot - which you should not normally need to touch. |
| 12:31.34 | SpeedEvil | Worst case, you can send it to someone to reflash. |
| 12:32.10 | PBeck | ok my mail is send ;) |
| 12:32.18 | PBeck | (omg my english ;)) ;) |
| 12:32.21 | SpeedEvil | It's almost exactly analogous to reflashing your PCs BIOS. |
| 12:33.16 | sannes | well, it is fun to make your own bootloader, maybe not so interesting .. :P |
| 12:33.36 | Psi_ | so for an app developer the lunchbox is a waste of money? |
| 12:33.48 | SpeedEvil | Prettu much |
| 12:34.05 | SpeedEvil | For a kernel developer - it may arguably have some slight point. |
| 12:34.07 | Psi_ | cool, that saves me some money |
| 12:34.14 | SpeedEvil | In that you can do JTAG debugging. |
| 12:34.29 | SpeedEvil | But given that you don't need to do that - as you can debug as you do on a PC. |
| 12:35.01 | PBeck | hm can i flash a openmokoimage without a dev-board? |
| 12:35.07 | balrog-kun | yes |
| 12:35.28 | mmp | will the lunchbox be compatible with future versions of neos? :) |
| 12:35.39 | balrog-kun | PBeck: even without rebooting sometimes |
| 12:36.02 | guaqua | balrog-kun: while making a phonecall? |
| 12:36.04 | guaqua | ;) |
| 12:36.09 | erdinger | will the power of neo's usb will be enough for a foldable mimi usb keyboard? |
| 12:36.11 | buz | does one actually need to reflash images? or can we update like we would on a normal linux? |
| 12:36.15 | sannes | uboot supports changing what kernel you boot without rewriting the bootloader, right? |
| 12:36.16 | balrog-kun | and playing mario bros on the Neo |
| 12:36.47 | guaqua | buz: i'm guessing at some point when things are stable |
| 12:37.03 | balrog-kun | buz: depends on what you mean by reflashing |
| 12:37.05 | Psi_ | hehe the appeal of the hackers lunchbox, is in the fact that you can say "I have a hackers lunchbox" and gain geek points :P |
| 12:39.20 | SpeedEvil | erdinger: no. |
| 12:39.20 | SpeedEvil | erdinger: there is _no_ power. |
| 12:39.20 | erdinger | ouch |
| 12:39.20 | SpeedEvil | At least in this version. |
| 12:39.20 | SpeedEvil | You need a battery powered hub or something. |
| 12:39.20 | balrog-kun | buz: when you modify any file that is on the rootfs mounted from flash, some part is being reflashed |
| 12:39.20 | erdinger | does it have bluetooth? |
| 12:39.20 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 12:39.21 | sannes | .. do ubuut support reading from whatever filesystem neo uses? |
| 12:39.21 | Psi_ | yes |
| 12:39.21 | Psi_ | v2 EDR |
| 12:39.21 | buz | balrog-kun: that's not what we usually refer to by reflashing i think |
| 12:39.21 | erdinger | SpeedEvil, so i could use a bt keyboard? |
| 12:39.21 | SpeedEvil | yep. |
| 12:39.21 | buz | erdinger: yes |
| 12:39.22 | Psi_ | yep |
| 12:39.22 | PBeck | balrog-kun: ok thats super, so i can build my own image |
| 12:39.22 | SpeedEvil | There are nice credit card sized keybs. |
| 12:39.22 | erdinger | i'm wondering it would be easy to have a small usb hub with a rausb :) |
| 12:39.23 | PBeck | balrog-kun: i need only the lunchbox, when i will flash the bootloader? |
| 12:39.23 | SpeedEvil | Though of course much more expensive than your average USB keyb. |
| 12:39.23 | buz | PBeck: no when you fuck up during that |
| 12:39.23 | balrog-kun | PBeck: no, only when you screw it and need to debug |
| 12:39.24 | Psi_ | id imagine that the battery in tiny bt keyboards would last a while too, since the only power consuming part would be the bt transceiver |
| 12:39.28 | SpeedEvil | 40h or so |
| 12:39.30 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 12:39.35 | buz | the two aa batteries in my wireless keyboard last for months |
| 12:39.42 | Psi_ | ^ |
| 12:39.49 | buz | thats not BT though |
| 12:39.53 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 12:40.18 | SpeedEvil | 40h active - the crediot card sized one. |
| 12:40.18 | PBeck | hm when i screw it <= that will be a problem :P |
| 12:40.23 | Psi_ | i guess its different with a device, like a wireless kdb, that only transmits when you press a key. Compared to a BT device which has to handshake all the time |
| 12:40.30 | buz | not sure why you'd need to reflash uboot though |
| 12:40.42 | buz | personally, i never reinstall grub for one |
| 12:40.49 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: url? |
| 12:41.01 | PBeck | hm will it be possible to connect the neo with a usb printer and print any files? |
| 12:41.10 | PBeck | the printer powered the usbcable or? |
| 12:41.16 | buz | not sure |
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| 12:41.31 | buz | and likely there wont be cups |
| 12:41.32 | Psi_ | as long as the printer doesnt need any usb power, it should work |
| 12:41.38 | buz | not initially anyway |
| 12:41.38 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/product/8555.htm |
| 12:41.44 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately. |
| 12:41.57 | SpeedEvil | Some devices require some power to notice a host. |
| 12:42.02 | Psi_ | yeah |
| 12:42.21 | SpeedEvil | the printer I tried, and the belkin tetrahub both will not notice a host with absolutely no power. |
| 12:42.26 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: unavailable |
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| 12:42.51 | PBeck | buz and SpeedEvil :( |
| 12:42.56 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right, changed. |
| 12:43.02 | guaqua | got the name of it anyway |
| 12:43.03 | PBeck | perhaps my hp psc 1310 :p |
| 12:43.13 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mobilefun.co.uk/cat/Bluetooth-Keyboards.htm |
| 12:43.37 | erdinger | good old laser key was at the cebit. total crap if you ask me |
| 12:43.39 | Psi_ | if you connected the internal 3.3v through a resister to the USB plug 5v pin, it wouldnt run stuff, but it would be high enough for devices to detect that there is voltage there |
| 12:44.09 | SpeedEvil | _maybe_. |
| 12:44.27 | SpeedEvil | laser key _looks_ awesome. |
| 12:44.31 | Psi_ | id imagine most devices just tie the 5V line to a IO pin |
| 12:44.31 | SpeedEvil | I don't need to use it. |
| 12:44.33 | PBeck | Psi_: or we use a powered hub |
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| 12:44.38 | SpeedEvil | I've typed on a ZX81 |
| 12:44.40 | Psi_ | and 3.3 is enough to pull a 5v io pin high |
| 12:44.42 | PBeck | but thats not so mobile :/ |
| 12:44.55 | SpeedEvil | Not all powered hubs work. |
| 12:45.06 | erdinger | PBeck, i just was googlin for a _battery_ powered hub |
| 12:45.10 | erdinger | can't find anything |
| 12:45.14 | SpeedEvil | it's got to be one that can cope with unpowered hosts. |
| 12:45.25 | SpeedEvil | the belkin tetrahyub for example can't. |
| 12:45.31 | dcordes | a friend of mine built one of those for his zaurus |
| 12:45.44 | PBeck | dcordes: hm a battery hub will be cool |
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| 12:48.31 | guaqua | dcordes: i found one |
| 12:48.38 | dcordes | guaqua, let me see |
| 12:48.42 | guaqua | just use those exact keywords :) |
| 12:48.54 | dcordes | expansys? |
| 12:48.54 | aloril | dcordes: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:50.39 | dcordes | guaqua, any link? |
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| 12:51.14 | guaqua | dcordes: http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=10624 |
| 12:56.15 | dcordes | guaqua, looks ok |
| 12:56.19 | dcordes | not too big |
| 12:57.22 | guaqua | says...supports windows and mac |
| 12:57.43 | guaqua | might be an idea to ask them if it works with devices that don't output any power |
| 12:58.18 | dcordes | yea |
| 12:58.22 | dcordes | it is us 20$ |
| 12:58.48 | guaqua | not much at all |
| 12:59.03 | dcordes | http://www.ritzcamera.com/product/EP5439059.htm |
| 12:59.28 | dcordes | guaqua, i think there will be no compatibillity issues since it will be just a hub |
| 12:59.44 | guaqua | but the power is a question |
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| 13:01.52 | guaqua | what comes into mind when you see someone running a binary called sb and it is hogging all your cpu? |
| 13:02.02 | guaqua | can't think of the name of the program |
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| 13:04.21 | sannes | guaqua: then I think sb --help |
| 13:04.42 | guaqua | not a system binary |
| 13:05.41 | sannes | oh, well I can't imagine sb using a lot of memory? (uploading/downloading files with X/Y/Z MODEM ?) |
| 13:06.28 | sannes | guaqua: sorry read memory .. hehe |
| 13:06.38 | sannes | guaqua: I would think renice :P |
| 13:06.52 | guaqua | it's not a problem at this time on sunday, but just thinking |
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| 13:09.30 | dcordes | guaqua, http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-December/000721.html |
| 13:10.13 | guaqua | i'd like to know if someone got it working :) |
| 13:12.07 | dcordes | guaqua, http://thoughtfix.blogspot.com/2006/01/usb-power-injector-2.html see that's nice |
| 13:12.29 | PBeck | ui my mail is on the mailinglist ^^ |
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| 13:14.52 | guaqua | dcordes: that is nice |
| 13:15.08 | dcordes | i like the penguin housing :) |
| 13:16.32 | kiney_ | that device looks great.. |
| 13:16.34 | guaqua | it looks nice |
| 13:16.41 | guaqua | dremel is the key :) |
| 13:16.46 | guaqua | and hot glue aswell ;) |
| 13:18.32 | guaqua | though i'd personally prefer a device with 4xAA NiMH, just to be able to recharge them easily |
| 13:18.43 | kiney_ | wouldn't it be possible to mass-produce something similiar for FIC? |
| 13:18.54 | guaqua | sure it'd be possible |
| 13:19.14 | guaqua | but are we thinking of using batteries or usb recharge or something more exotic? |
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| 13:20.06 | guaqua | kiney_: and also, that isn't exactly legal to sell since it might actually break stuff |
| 13:20.17 | kiney_ | hmm |
| 13:20.53 | kiney_ | if you change the plug on the phone side to special not common plug and include a special cable to connect it to the Neo? |
| 13:21.33 | guaqua | that'd mess up a whole lot of other use cases |
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| 13:26.00 | guaqua | well, i'm definitely going to do something like that :) |
| 13:26.27 | kiney_ | me too.. |
| 13:26.42 | kiney_ | It shouldn't be that hard to build... |
| 13:29.55 | kiney_ | counter |
| 13:29.56 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 11:15:02 (6.469 +-6.5 days) (698,133) |
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| 13:38.13 | kiney_ | Is this chat logged somewhere? |
| 13:39.41 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 13:39.59 | kiney_ | where? |
| 13:40.10 | SpeedEvil | Dunno :) |
| 13:40.15 | kiney_ | ok |
| 13:40.17 | SpeedEvil | I suspect there is a link on the wiki. |
| 13:42.04 | kiney_ | hmm, I can't find it... anyway, it's not that important. |
| 13:42.05 | Ocibu | I haven't been online in a couple days. Any new developments WRT the GL gps plugin? |
| 13:42.22 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 13:42.26 | Ocibu | :-( |
| 13:42.32 | SpeedEvil | Well - no productive ones. |
| 13:42.58 | Ocibu | But at least now I can boot an SD image that I have built! |
| 13:43.10 | Ocibu | Thats progress for me, but not really for the project |
| 13:43.45 | pH5 | kiney_: apt's logs are at http://apt.rikers.org/%23openmoko/ |
| 13:44.59 | kiney_ | pH5: thanks |
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| 13:45.28 | SpeedEvil | Ocibu: random question - how long is the ionosphere static for? I.E. if you've got an accurate model, is it useful for minutes, hours? |
| 13:45.50 | Ocibu | That depends upon where on earth you are and what is happening in the iono |
| 13:46.02 | Ocibu | At quiet times, an iono can be good for hours |
| 13:46.17 | Ocibu | At other times, it flucuates at tens of Hz |
| 13:46.47 | SpeedEvil | How long will the data 'typically' improve a fix for? |
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| 13:47.40 | Ocibu | Hrm. My guess is on the order of tens of minutes |
| 13:47.58 | Ocibu | But I will check with our iono experts at work |
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| 13:48.25 | Ocibu | You know that the nav message does have single frequency iono model parameters |
| 13:48.36 | SpeedEvil | Just wondering for how long a ionospheric download might help. |
| 13:48.48 | SpeedEvil | It does? |
| 13:49.00 | SpeedEvil | I thought it only had orbits and times. |
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| 13:50.43 | Ocibu | now that model is not near as good as you could do |
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| 13:53.49 | Shoragan | Ocibu, you do gps development? |
| 13:54.58 | Ocibu | yes |
| 13:56.43 | kiney_ | Someone here has a P0 device? How is the fisical quality of the housing? |
| 13:56.57 | SpeedEvil | Reportedly very good. |
| 13:56.59 | kiney_ | (I tend to be a bit rought with my phones) |
| 13:57.02 | koen | kiney_: better than I expected |
| 13:57.37 | kiney_ | that's good news |
| 13:59.02 | Shoragan | kiney, the case is very rubust |
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| 14:15.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] [[FAQ]] |
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| 14:56.45 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1586 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: openmoko-panel-battery: increase timeout to 10 seconds in DEBUG mode, add more debug output, reomve one warning |
| 15:02.19 | Mandarino | :? |
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| 15:10.01 | zecke | mickey|brunswick: it is time to ditch ksirc and either go to irssi or at least konversation ;) |
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| 15:21.22 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1587 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/src/openmoko-panel-battery.c: openmoko-panel-battery: fix display in battery charging mode |
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| 15:52.20 | DukeOfURL | main.c:46: error: redefinition of typedef GtkTreeModelFilterVisibleFunc ? |
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| 15:55.38 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: ping |
| 15:55.49 | SpeedEvil | . |
| 15:56.21 | PBeck | you are ian stirling? |
| 15:56.30 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 15:56.46 | SpeedEvil | Yup. |
| 15:56.46 | PBeck | how you mean that with OSM |
| 15:57.09 | PBeck | how should i pick "osmarender"? |
| 15:57.17 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 15:57.29 | SpeedEvil | it's an alternative view. |
| 15:57.42 | SpeedEvil | there is a little "+" on the right of the map view. |
| 15:57.54 | SpeedEvil | click that, select 'osmarender'. |
| 15:58.09 | SpeedEvil | it's an alternative - and slightly more up-to-date version of the map. |
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| 15:58.58 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: ah cool |
| 15:59.10 | PBeck | ok now i write a answer ;) |
| 15:59.16 | SpeedEvil | Normally not important, but I've been adding stuff in the last few days. |
| 15:59.23 | PBeck | of course it should a alternative feature |
| 15:59.41 | PBeck | but the first target is that tomtom sell it for the neo |
| 16:00.18 | SpeedEvil | IMO, non-free software for a platform is almost always good. |
| 16:00.23 | PBeck | i will be happy when i can track my way and can create a map |
| 16:00.29 | SpeedEvil | If free software can be implemented to do the same job. |
| 16:00.48 | SpeedEvil | If that's all you're wanting OSM for, it's simple. |
| 16:00.54 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 16:00.58 | SpeedEvil | I mean it's fine for that. |
| 16:01.14 | SpeedEvil | If you actually want it as a _map_ - at the moment, it's not. |
| 16:01.26 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: a programm to track ways and so on are good |
| 16:01.28 | SpeedEvil | on 99.999% of the earth. |
| 16:01.36 | PBeck | but i think a navi for my car would be good too ;) |
| 16:01.50 | PBeck | and for that we need complete maps |
| 16:02.04 | SpeedEvil | yeah - for that, you practically need tomtom/... ATM. |
| 16:02.10 | PBeck | i have no problem to contribute osm |
| 16:02.14 | PBeck | i like this project |
| 16:02.25 | PBeck | i would create a map of my town ;) |
| 16:02.29 | SpeedEvil | As - for example - the trunk roads in Scotland were only completed last week. |
| 16:02.43 | SpeedEvil | And there are only around 20 of them. |
| 16:03.01 | PBeck | that is the problem |
| 16:04.05 | SpeedEvil | Even 'dumb' contributors - that just submit tracklogs without doing more are of use. |
| 16:04.41 | PBeck | hm thats not good |
| 16:04.52 | SpeedEvil | Those that actually wander round intentionally even more, and those that take streetnames work. |
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| 16:05.14 | SpeedEvil | Err - rather, taking streenames is a lot of work. |
| 16:05.20 | SpeedEvil | It's quite simple. |
| 16:05.24 | koen | I bet |
| 16:05.29 | SpeedEvil | First you upload the gpx tracklog? |
| 16:05.30 | koen | but non-obvious |
| 16:05.31 | SpeedEvil | Done that? |
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| 16:05.50 | koen | the UI of josm is atrocious |
| 16:05.50 | SpeedEvil | Now, download and setup JOSM. |
| 16:06.02 | SpeedEvil | Load the GPX file into JOSM - file - open |
| 16:06.13 | SpeedEvil | this will then zoom to the extents of the track. |
| 16:06.25 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178220187.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:06.26 | SpeedEvil | Hit 'download' - the downwards arrow. |
| 16:06.42 | SpeedEvil | this will download the existing map. |
| 16:07.16 | SpeedEvil | now, the easiest way to create a way is to zoom in (the zoom tool) to one section |
| 16:07.29 | SpeedEvil | and select the 'create and link' node tool. |
| 16:07.55 | SpeedEvil | click along the route, this will create nodes, and segments joining them. |
| 16:08.34 | SpeedEvil | now, select the 'way' tool (the three crooked nodes) and select all the segments. |
| 16:08.51 | SpeedEvil | add property, name=foo st |
| 16:09.04 | SpeedEvil | add property highway=residential |
| 16:09.23 | SpeedEvil | It won't download >.4 square degrees or so. |
| 16:09.33 | SpeedEvil | It's an API limit. |
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| 16:20.38 | koen | SpeedEvil: why doesn't josm auto-add the name propertie and/or pops up a dialog? |
| 16:20.55 | SpeedEvil | Umm. |
| 16:20.58 | SpeedEvil | Because! |
| 16:21.11 | koen | ah |
| 16:21.14 | koen | it does have a dialog |
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| 16:22.00 | SpeedEvil | There are tutorial videos AIUI. |
| 16:24.57 | koen | a better UI would be more usefull than tutorial vids |
| 16:27.21 | koen | ok, the A1 highway should be complete now between my parents and my house |
| 16:27.52 | koen | . o O {google/yahoo maps underlay} |
| 16:28.00 | pH5 | an inkscape-like gui with a more osmarender or mapnik-like look would be cool. everything-is-a |
| 16:28.12 | pH5 | -path is very confusing when you have streets, rails and lakes next to each other |
| 16:28.45 | koen | or a "I'm going to draw a road" mode |
| 16:29.15 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i have answer to tomtom thread :) |
| 16:29.33 | PBeck | +the |
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| 16:30.01 | koen | PBeck: btw, I know that tomtom is open to other platforms |
| 16:30.20 | koen | PBeck: iirc they asked for a proof of concept first |
| 16:30.36 | koen | e.g. get their linux binaries working on your pet platform |
| 16:32.41 | PBeck | ? |
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| 16:33.24 | PBeck | what is a pet plattform? |
| 16:33.34 | PBeck | *platform |
| 16:33.59 | koen | the platform you want to have tomtom on |
| 16:34.36 | koen | OT: tomtom actually responds to questions about that, opera just puts you in /dev/null |
| 16:34.53 | SpeedEvil | :) |
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| 16:35.02 | PBeck | koen: ok than i ask ;) |
| 16:35.20 | zecke | koen: luckily opera will be out of business soon(tm) |
| 16:35.44 | PBeck | koen: hm tomtom is not direct for linux avaible, right? |
| 16:36.18 | wansti | http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0019680/public_html/tmp/ringtone04.ogg |
| 16:36.59 | koen | PBeck: the tomtom GO units run linux |
| 16:37.14 | koen | wansti: 404 |
| 16:37.14 | PBeck | koen: i mean that the sell the software for linux |
| 16:37.27 | SpeedEvil | Not directly. |
| 16:37.29 | pH5 | wansti: s/public_html// |
| 16:37.33 | SpeedEvil | Only hardware with linux on. |
| 16:37.33 | guaqua | opera out of business |
| 16:37.34 | koen | PBeck: no, only coupled with their hardware |
| 16:37.41 | guaqua | what's positive about opera being out of business? |
| 16:37.55 | wansti | oops, sorry - http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0019680/tmp/ringtone04.ogg |
| 16:38.00 | SpeedEvil | Closed source - new-platform hostile. |
| 16:38.02 | PBeck | koen: thats it :P |
| 16:38.36 | SpeedEvil | koen: what's the nearest town to the bit of A1 you did? |
| 16:38.44 | guaqua | i'm all happy for another player on the browser market, just to keep things moving. opera is showing the way in innovation... |
| 16:39.01 | PBeck | wansti: nice beat ;) |
| 16:39.43 | koen | SpeedEvil: Apeldoorn, the Netherlands |
| 16:40.00 | SpeedEvil | Oh - other A1 than I was thinking of :) |
| 16:40.02 | guaqua | and i'm thinking as the only one in innovation except for konqueror...and konqueror's good points are not in it's browsing |
| 16:40.16 | koen | 52.24,6.24 |
| 16:40.21 | PBeck | koen: where you know that tomtom respond plattform question? |
| 16:40.33 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: germany? ;) |
| 16:40.44 | koen | PBeck: because some company asked me to help them get the binaries to work :) |
| 16:41.22 | PBeck | binaries for which plattform? |
| 16:41.29 | PBeck | and how you can help them? |
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| 16:45.05 | koen | tomtom told them they should demo the tomtom stuff ripped from a tomtom go 500 on their platform |
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| 16:45.30 | SpeedEvil | koen: have you been doing the bit to the west of the bit that was mapped already? |
| 16:46.06 | koen | I did the bit between 6.24 and 6.66 |
| 16:47.44 | koen | SpeedEvil: http://www.openembedded.org/~koen/josm.png |
| 16:47.45 | SpeedEvil | Just with a single road, with name= tag? |
| 16:48.01 | PBeck | koen: ok thats good |
| 16:48.14 | koen | SpeedEvil: yes |
| 16:48.48 | SpeedEvil | Download the bits at the ends, and see how they are done. |
| 16:49.21 | SpeedEvil | Ideally the track of the road should stay more-or-less within the GPS track points. |
| 16:49.45 | koen | that's josm requiring 5 clicks to add a node |
| 16:50.01 | SpeedEvil | Plus dual-lane motorways are done as seperate per-lane ways, with oneway=true on them. |
| 16:50.12 | SpeedEvil | It shouldn't be that bad. |
| 16:50.22 | SpeedEvil | you load your GPX file. |
| 16:51.05 | SpeedEvil | Now, zoom in so that you can see the spread of the GPS points, not just the line, and use the add-nodes-and join tool to click along it. |
| 16:51.26 | SpeedEvil | dragging with the right button when you run out of road to do. |
| 16:51.35 | koen | right button? |
| 16:51.39 | koen | <- on a mac |
| 16:51.43 | SpeedEvil | the right button drags. |
| 16:51.44 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 16:51.59 | SpeedEvil | maybe some sort of meta-click |
| 16:52.19 | koen | FWIW, the existing nodes only show "created_by: JOSM" |
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| 16:52.40 | SpeedEvil | Look at the existing motorway to the side. |
| 16:53.42 | SpeedEvil | It's tagged with highway=motorway, int_ref=E30 maxspeed=120 oneway=yes ref=A1 |
| 16:53.50 | SpeedEvil | for each carridgeway |
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| 16:55.04 | SpeedEvil | I don't know how you drag the map with the mouse on a mac. That'd be majorly annoying. |
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| 16:59.10 | ebel | Macs do right click with Command-Click. |
| 16:59.34 | ebel | Though if it's java there might be some difference. Maybe control-click. |
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| 17:01.08 | Georg_Miersch | Hi - anyone already has a phase1 device? |
| 17:01.19 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 17:01.25 | SpeedEvil | At least nobody reporting it. |
| 17:01.32 | SpeedEvil | they are not out yet. |
| 17:01.47 | Georg_Miersch | Well it seems that the order phase has run out. Its already march 31 |
| 17:02.18 | SpeedEvil | Latest news is a couple of week delay. |
| 17:02.39 | SpeedEvil | maybe next week, maybe a couple. |
| 17:03.10 | Georg_Miersch | So the update is End of April? Well, the mass market start will also be delayed to Q4/2007 |
| 17:03.30 | koen | SpeedEvil: what's really missing is a 'convert gps points [N] ... [M] to <feature>' |
| 17:03.32 | SpeedEvil | no - beginning of april |
| 17:03.47 | SpeedEvil | That's not completely trivial to do. |
| 17:04.04 | Georg_Miersch | no it's better that hardware issues are resolved. |
| 17:04.28 | SpeedEvil | koen: I'd try using assorted meta-keys and drag to scroll. Makes it much easier to work at high zoom. |
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| 17:06.12 | SpeedEvil | I'd expect it'd take me a couple of minutes to trace the ways, and then another minute or so to set the tags. It's not bad with practice. |
| 17:06.19 | koen | SpeedEvil: if I know that e.g. between 16:30 and 17:40 was driving on highways a OSM editor shouldn't force me to add a bazillion nodes, connect those nodes, select those nodes and convert them to a road, add a tag to mark them as highway, add a name tag, ... , ..., ... |
| 17:06.51 | koen | SpeedEvil: I don't code |
| 17:07.49 | koen | "convert gps points to nodes" would make editing so much easier |
| 17:07.52 | SpeedEvil | I don't disagree with you, but going straight from GPS - highway has the bad failure mode of drawing highway when you get on a train. |
| 17:08.03 | SpeedEvil | there is a plugin to sort-of-do that IIRC. |
| 17:08.30 | SpeedEvil | And you still need to tag as oneway, motorway, name, as there is no way to automate that. |
| 17:09.33 | SpeedEvil | Well - barring cameras/OCR |
| 17:10.06 | pH5 | hm.. ocr on a car pc that reads street signs? |
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| 17:31.56 | PBeck | hum Harald Welte is from gpl-violations.org? |
| 17:33.10 | stefan_schmidt | PBeck: yes |
| 17:33.44 | Georg_Miersch | anyone with interests in usability? |
| 17:34.25 | PBeck | stefan_schmidt: ah ok thanks. I read a article about hacking a tom tom go ;) |
| 17:34.35 | PBeck | so i read from gpl-violations too ;) |
| 17:34.58 | SpeedEvil | Georg_Miersch: Naah - we all think that vi is the best interface model for a touchscreen phone. |
| 17:35.48 | buz | speak for yourself, i want emacs as a model |
| 17:35.48 | buz | SCNR |
| 17:35.56 | unknown_lamer | I want emacs itself |
| 17:36.10 | unknown_lamer | with some funky input method to make it work keyboardless |
| 17:36.20 | Georg_Miersch | :-) but what about the "mass market"? |
| 17:36.32 | unknown_lamer | they don't have to use my special setup that only I'll ever use :-) |
| 17:37.16 | wansti | http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~y0019680/tmp/ringtone05.mp3 |
| 17:37.18 | buz | Georg_Miersch: they can have wordpad |
| 17:37.51 | buz | wansti: i hate that ringtone |
| 17:37.55 | buz | sounds much to happy |
| 17:37.58 | Georg_Miersch | or notepad |
| 17:37.59 | stefan_schmidt | Georg_Miersch: For mass market we are of course interested in usability. |
| 17:38.29 | buz | but it wouldnt be bad for mass market i guess |
| 17:38.40 | buz | a signature melody would be nice of course |
| 17:38.42 | Georg_Miersch | I mean with usability - we should also collect everyday reports in a concentrated fashion |
| 17:39.04 | koen | like bugzilla? |
| 17:39.18 | unknown_lamer | so long as it isn't gnome style usability improvement |
| 17:39.30 | buz | aka remove offending feature |
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| 17:39.53 | Georg_Miersch | like bugzilla - but it's distorting the relations |
| 17:40.17 | buz | people who cant deal with bugzilla probably cant write bugreports either |
| 17:40.50 | wansti | stefan_schmidt, buz: and, for mass market, we are also interested in happy ringtones :-P |
| 17:41.02 | unknown_lamer | buz: bug reports should be generated at the source |
| 17:41.20 | buz | "Phone not call" is not useful as bug report |
| 17:41.40 | Georg_Miersch | yes that would go for technical bug reporting - but other aspects will go unnoticed |
| 17:42.01 | buz | add a forum for the users for all i care |
| 17:42.19 | Georg_Miersch | I believe a forum is the best solution |
| 17:42.20 | SpeedEvil | "phone not call", with automated dump may be of use though. |
| 17:42.23 | buz | but keep the ML now that the noise has down a bit |
| 17:42.38 | buz | SpeedEvil: like a flag that shows that there is no network or no sim inside |
| 17:43.03 | Georg_Miersch | what is ML? |
| 17:43.09 | SpeedEvil | I think that [[yeah. |
| 17:43.10 | buz | mailing list |
| 17:43.11 | SpeedEvil | Mailing list. |
| 17:43.17 | SpeedEvil | buz: yeah. |
| 17:43.35 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/My_Account is probably useful for users too IMO. |
| 17:43.42 | buz | ubuntu supposedly has an automatic crash report tool now |
| 17:43.56 | buz | not that it actually works on my machine, but that wouldn't be the worst thing |
| 17:44.01 | koen | buz: gnome has had it for ages |
| 17:44.02 | buz | just please dont submit the crashes over gprs ;) |
| 17:44.25 | buz | koen: the ubuntu one supposedly should work for plain x apps as well |
| 17:44.27 | SpeedEvil | Unless the user says OK. |
| 17:44.37 | SpeedEvil | After all, some people have free accounts. |
| 17:44.43 | buz | point |
| 17:44.45 | Stephmw | do it! send a screengrab too :) |
| 17:44.56 | unknown_lamer | the more data I use the less I paid for every bit |
| 17:44.58 | buz | and copy of the addressbook |
| 17:44.58 | Stephmw | ... and a voice print... and a system dump as well |
| 17:45.05 | Stephmw | buz: aye! |
| 17:45.11 | Stephmw | buz: remote backup, dontcha know |
| 17:45.34 | buz | and a pic of the user, so we can prioritize reports by hotness |
| 17:46.03 | buz | SpeedEvil: that feature would be good if it asked the user if he wanted to send cached reports once wifi is on |
| 17:46.13 | buz | not much use in P1 anyhow |
| 17:46.34 | SpeedEvil | It will presumably often be plugged in to the PC. |
| 17:46.45 | SpeedEvil | And have USBNET - which may be free too. |
| 17:46.46 | buz | yeah but not everyone will have usbnet configured |
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| 17:47.23 | buz | can winwoes even do that |
| 17:47.33 | buz | AND route to the net? |
| 17:47.38 | SpeedEvil | AIUI, yes. |
| 17:47.39 | fledermaus | I think I've found a bug in erc :) |
| 17:47.49 | Georg_Miersch | erc? |
| 17:47.50 | SpeedEvil | Though sometimes it prefers the usbnet interface. |
| 17:47.53 | *** part/#openmoko ersatzmaus (n=vivek@slfd01.bcnadsl.com) |
| 17:48.10 | Georg_Miersch | ah erc = irc? |
| 17:48.16 | fledermaus | no. |
| 17:48.23 | fledermaus | well, it is anirc client. |
| 17:48.38 | fledermaus | but wrong channel anyway :) |
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| 17:55.41 | wansti | http://www-public.tu-bs.de:8080/~y0019680/tmp/ringtone06.mp3 |
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| 17:55.49 | wansti | for the role-playing geeks :-) |
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| 18:03.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] [[FAQ]] |
| 18:06.58 | sbeh | counter |
| 18:06.58 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 08:56:30 (6.373 +-6.4 days) (699,134) |
| 18:07.19 | LWT001 | Whyopenmoko rootfs (not its kernel) cant boot on our s3c2410? this rootfs build with OE, I have successfully builded openmoko with MokoMakefile , using openmoko rootfs for our s3C2410 ( 2.6.8 s3c2410 ARM kernel running correctly for Qtopia) rootfs. when this sytem boot, kernel print :freeing init memory:128k,then no response,but can ping it., |
| 18:07.45 | koen | LWT001: 2.6.8?!?!?! |
| 18:07.59 | koen | LWT001: that doesn't even support a working udev |
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| 18:10.21 | LWT001 | i have trace it using wireshark, the /bin/sh of linuxrc doesn't run |
| 18:10.26 | LWT001 | but /bin/sh dependence lib have been loaded, I use NFS rootfs. |
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| 18:29.13 | zecke | mickey|brunswick: http://ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl/tinderbox/showlog.pl?machine_id=190&logfile=20070331165615.log&page=189 |
| 18:29.42 | koen | heh |
| 18:29.49 | koen | already fixed in OE :D |
| 18:30.10 | zecke | koen: well, at least this helps me to debug seppuku :) |
| 18:30.20 | zecke | koen: for some reason it stopped creating attachment... |
| 18:30.45 | koen | zecke: btw, I fixed planet on linuxtogo, so your blog is there again |
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| 18:31.46 | zecke | koen: so you know what I did yesterday :) |
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| 18:42.07 | LWT001 | koen: i have sent one email to you,about openmoko rootfs ,thanks |
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| 18:45.48 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1588 10/trunk/oe/packages/initscripts/ (94 files in 24 dirs): oe/initscripts: add own version of initscripts that works around oebug 1529 |
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| 19:57.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 20:25.33 | kiney | counter |
| 20:25.33 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 07:47:13 (6.324 +-6.3 days) (700,134) |
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| 20:53.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 21:12.50 | Elrond | counter |
| 21:12.50 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 07:23:34 (6.308 +-6.3 days) (701,134) |
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| 21:18.17 | cjb | Anyone have ideas on the latest kernel crashing after a few minutes (with "scheduling while atomic: klogd")? |
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| 21:25.54 | Elrond | cjb - No idea. |
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| 21:50.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]] |
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| 22:48.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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