| 00:01.10 | Elrond | Night people. :) |
| 00:15.04 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 00:15.04 | pavelm | Elrond: It did not dial at the other side. |
| 00:15.10 | pavelm | ...will debug that later. |
| 00:15.13 | pavelm | good night! |
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| 01:10.52 | cjb | hrr, we got half way through dfu nand upload, u-boot turned the phone off, and we can't get it back up :/ |
| 01:11.00 | cjb | openocd says to check JTAG connection. |
| 01:11.32 | rwhitby | cjb: unplug/replug usb cable to phone and debug board |
| 01:11.38 | rwhitby | turn phone back on |
| 01:11.53 | rwhitby | start again, and press the AUX button every now and then if you're being slow :-) |
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| 01:14.21 | cjb | rwhitby: done all that, nothing seems to get me JTAG back. |
| 01:14.35 | cjb | sometimes when I hit the power button the screen flashes white for like 200ms |
| 01:14.42 | cjb | never get anything over serial, from uboot |
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| 01:41.15 | Speedy2 | Hey all. Anyone have an OpenMoko phone? |
| 01:41.15 | aloril | Speedy2: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 01:59.48 | cjb | hm, I'm getting the partial openmoko splash screen |
| 02:00.00 | cjb | but even now, jtag isn't working, openocd says |
| 02:00.07 | cjb | Error: jtag.c:1181 jtag_examine_chain(): JTAG communication failure, check connection, JTAG interface, target power etc. |
| 02:00.10 | cjb | so how can I proceed? |
| 02:02.14 | *** join/#openmoko phpaprendiz (n=chatzill@201.79.117.239) |
| 02:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa[AwAy] (n=sajt@53d82bea.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 02:06.28 | phpaprendiz | Im from Brazil, how to I do to buy fic1973? |
| 02:06.29 | aloril | phpaprendiz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 02:27.59 | sumasuma | counter |
| 02:28.00 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 09:32:00 (7.397 +-7.0 days) (677,131) |
| 02:29.02 | cjb | huh, u-boot prints "poweroff" and shuts down the phone straight away |
| 02:33.31 | rwhitby | cjb: it's not a low battery charge is it? |
| 02:34.30 | rwhitby | when I got into that situation, I put a jumper across pins 15 and 16 on the jtag jumper (which is the reset button) and let it charge for a couple of hours |
| 02:34.57 | rwhitby | you really need a full battery before attempting flashing or openocd |
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| 02:35.54 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 02:42.11 | cjb | rwhitby: I was powering it externally, so didn't think the battery mattered. |
| 02:42.25 | cjb | but I looked at u-boot code, and it turns out it only does the poweroff if you aren't holding down the power button |
| 02:42.50 | cjb | so I did that, and it booted, but now it's sitting at the kernel saying "hub: Cannot enable port 1. Maybe the USB cable is bad?" |
| 02:42.53 | cjb | and not doing anything |
| 02:43.17 | rwhitby | cjb: powering externally doesn't help if the battery is low, cause the charging circuit only kicks in at 100mA by default unless you tell it to fast charge in u-boot or you get into linux userland |
| 02:43.45 | cjb | rwhitby: the battery wasn't inserted. |
| 02:44.12 | cjb | I had an adjustable power supply attached to the battery clips. |
| 02:44.16 | rwhitby | ah |
| 02:44.42 | rwhitby | scratch everything I've said above then :-) |
| 02:44.47 | rwhitby | next thing would be seating of the FPC then |
| 02:44.47 | cjb | :) |
| 02:44.54 | cjb | ooh. what's the FPC? |
| 02:45.10 | rwhitby | the flexible plastic cable |
| 02:45.27 | cjb | hm, what's that got to do with usb? |
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| 02:45.27 | rwhitby | ("Flexible Printed Cable/Circuit") |
| 02:45.31 | cjb | oh, or you mean as the reason it was powering off? |
| 02:45.45 | rwhitby | no, the reason that jtag wasn't working |
| 02:45.51 | cjb | the cable must be working, because I get serial over it |
| 02:46.15 | rwhitby | but the serial and jtag are over different lines on the FPC |
| 02:46.42 | rwhitby | one guy had a single bent pin on the FPC connector which was stuffing everything up |
| 02:46.51 | cjb | ooh. |
| 02:47.08 | rwhitby | are you running devirginator to control all this? |
| 02:47.27 | rwhitby | (oh, and the FPC connectors apparently only have a rated life of 20 insertions or something) |
| 02:51.19 | aevin | wasn't it koen talking about having issues with his FPC connector only after like 3 insertions ? |
| 02:51.39 | aevin | anyways, seems to be really fragile. |
| 02:53.20 | cjb | yeah, using devirginator. it all succeeded, eventually, but I get the kernel hang I just mentioned at the end. |
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| 02:54.11 | rwhitby | kernel hang or u-boot hang? |
| 02:55.00 | rwhitby | let's check some basic things: you're using the gta01_B_v3 version of everything right? (some people have got caught by using the gta01v3 without the 'b') |
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| 03:01.45 | cjb | rwhitby: Well, it's actually some kind of init hang. The kernel boots, init boots, starts up udev, bluetooth stuff, everything like that |
| 03:01.59 | cjb | and during all that, it's printing "hub: Cannot enable port 1. Maybe the USB cable is bad" |
| 03:02.15 | cjb | and eventually init stuff stops happening, and I'm just left with that message repeating |
| 03:02.28 | cjb | I'm using the 20070303 devirginate stuff, nothing else |
| 03:02.31 | rwhitby | ah, dunno then. |
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| 03:16.06 | Sanjeewa | Hi all, Im new here.. what new features can I expect from the openmoko ? |
| 03:16.06 | aloril | Sanjeewa: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:16.25 | Sanjeewa | cheers |
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| 03:39.34 | cjb | d'oh! I upgraded kernel without upgrading modules. What's the normal way to upgrade modules? |
| 03:41.37 | init_alx | make modules_install |
| 03:41.43 | init_alx | oh |
| 03:41.49 | init_alx | no idea about openmoko |
| 03:41.50 | init_alx | hahaha |
| 03:42.04 | init_alx | that'd work on regular linux, should work... :) |
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| 03:48.18 | cjb | yeah, different story. for one thing, I need to get the modules tarball to the device.. |
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| 03:53.20 | cjb | anyone know how to get a terminal in latest nand images? |
| 03:56.01 | aloril | nice, last 3 faq triggers where spot on |
| 03:57.38 | cjb | huh? why isn't there a prompt on u-boot or a getty on serial anymore? |
| 03:59.50 | pjz | !counter |
| 03:59.54 | pjz | counter |
| 03:59.54 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 08:00:06 (7.333 +-7.0 days) (678,132) |
| 04:04.02 | *** join/#openmoko mwester_ (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 04:06.17 | rwhitby | cjb: getty on serial conflicts with gsm uart |
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| 04:06.38 | rwhitby | cjb: only way to get a terminal is to ssh in via usbnet and start rxvt |
| 04:07.15 | init_alx | rwhitby: you mean someone hasn't made a menu icon for that yet? |
| 04:08.23 | rwhitby | init_alx: not in the standard image, no. |
| 04:08.28 | init_alx | wow |
| 04:08.30 | init_alx | ;) |
| 04:08.35 | init_alx | y'all are slow |
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| 04:09.05 | pjz | i |
| 04:09.27 | rwhitby | init_alx: no, we all just ssh in - using a touchscreen terminal for development is crazy |
| 04:10.11 | init_alx | rwhitby: well still, it'd be cool to be able to ssh from it |
| 04:10.22 | init_alx | or does ip routing over gsm/gprs not work yet? |
| 04:10.39 | rwhitby | gprs isn't up yet |
| 04:10.46 | init_alx | awww |
| 04:10.57 | rwhitby | it's bluetooth or usbnet at the moment. |
| 04:11.02 | init_alx | hehe |
| 04:11.29 | rwhitby | I use the keyboard on the Treo650 to ssh into the Neo via bluetooth and start rxvt if I need to. |
| 04:11.37 | init_alx | :D |
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| 04:42.10 | MacNorth | night all :) |
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| 05:21.24 | dilinger | cjb: where are you building openmoko kernels? |
| 05:21.28 | dilinger | cjb: grinch? |
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| 05:50.10 | Mandarino | Hi :) |
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| 06:01.26 | rwhitby | uboot build is broken |
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| 06:09.37 | rwhitby | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=331 |
| 06:11.43 | _ASK | rwhitby: a keyboard is a must, isn't it? |
| 06:12.32 | rwhitby | it is for me, for other's it's not. it's an individual choice I think. |
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| 06:41.37 | helb | counter |
| 06:41.38 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 05:18:22 (7.221 +-7.0 days) (679,132) |
| 06:42.30 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 06:43.50 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 06:44.35 | ynezz | what does (679,132) means? it's a phone number for orders? |
| 06:45.00 | Hopscotch | i think, it's a broken counter |
| 06:45.58 | rwhitby | total and unique requests for the counter |
| 06:58.46 | ynezz | ok |
| 07:04.34 | buz | counter |
| 07:04.34 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 04:55:25 (7.205 +-7.0 days) (680,132) |
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| 07:09.02 | TRIsoft | morning |
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| 08:16.43 | hrw | morning |
| 08:20.13 | Rakshasa | Morgen alle. =P |
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| 08:27.06 | ninHer | hi all |
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| 08:36.56 | Stephmw | mornin' |
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| 08:44.01 | antenagora | counter |
| 08:44.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 03:16:18 (7.136 +-7.0 days) (681,132) |
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| 08:56.04 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Wifi |
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| 08:57.45 | rwhitby | Q4/2007 |
| 09:01.05 | roh | hey rwhitby |
| 09:01.16 | hrw | so wifi in v2 |
| 09:01.20 | roh | hm.. build is broken by haralds new uboot patches |
| 09:01.48 | rwhitby | roh: yeah, I've submitted a bug on it |
| 09:02.03 | rwhitby | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=331 |
| 09:03.05 | roh | heh |
| 09:03.21 | roh | somehow this autobuilder spamming the bugzilla must be workaroundable |
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| 09:37.00 | hrw | !ombug 333 |
| 09:37.02 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 333, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 09:37.03 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko(AT)hrw.one.pl: OM-messages 20070330 does not build |
| 09:37.04 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=333 |
| 09:39.58 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lab_ (n=koen@wlan137166.mobiel.utwente.nl) |
| 09:42.39 | pH5 | heh. NetworkManager on my laptop drops my wlan connection when I plug in the neo1973 because it favours the usb network connection. |
| 09:43.10 | CM | Hehe |
| 09:44.45 | roh | *g* ... nm is somehow still unusable for geek-computers (which have more than one ip-connection to the outside more than not) |
| 09:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:46.28 | hrw | so not for laptops at all... |
| 09:50.30 | roh | hmmm... i run out of usbports |
| 09:51.00 | roh | especially ones which allow to supply 500mA ;) |
| 10:00.01 | _ASK | i hate closed source devices |
| 10:00.09 | _ASK | i have a CDMA treo 650 that is locked |
| 10:00.29 | parag0n | pH5, if you add the usb connection to /etc/network/interfaces , networkmanager shouldnt be able to see it |
| 10:01.20 | pH5 | parag0n: thanks, I know. |
| 10:02.14 | _ASK | i'm cracking the code, but have no idea how resources are saved on a PRC |
| 10:03.00 | parag0n | nm is useless to me, it refuses to support WPA on my rt61 card |
| 10:03.24 | SpeedEvil | Just do the VPN thingy, |
| 10:03.25 | parag0n | i had to write a bunch of pre-up scripts to connect :< |
| 10:05.53 | balrog-kun | _ASK: part of the treo650 drivers have been reverse engineered already |
| 10:06.12 | balrog-kun | _ASK: check the linux drivers and the hackdev.org wiki |
| 10:06.19 | balrog-kun | *hackndev.org |
| 10:06.20 | _ASK | oh no, the problem is the master subsidy lock |
| 10:06.29 | balrog-kun | ah ok |
| 10:07.53 | _ASK | i bet it's embeded in the CDMA module |
| 10:07.53 | _ASK | it's locked and I'm trying to modify the phne application in palm os to reset it |
| 10:07.53 | balrog-kun | i think it would be in some pdb |
| 10:07.54 | balrog-kun | btw there are programs for browsing the non-code resources embedded in prc and pdb files |
| 10:07.54 | _ASK | it's just a matter fo "NOP" the routine which cheks the code |
| 10:08.28 | _ASK | it's not in any PDB, i checked already |
| 10:08.37 | _ASK | i'm almost certain that it's inside the CDMA module |
| 10:09.16 | balrog-kun | isn't it different on every phone? |
| 10:09.24 | balrog-kun | the code i mean |
| 10:09.30 | _ASK | yes |
| 10:09.48 | _ASK | MSL is generated by ESN number and some random algorithm |
| 10:10.03 | balrog-kun | so they would sheep a different prc with each single device? |
| 10:10.27 | _ASK | nope. what they do is to lock the phone manually before shipping it |
| 10:10.58 | _ASK | software is the same in each phone, it's just some piece of ROM which contains the lock code |
| 10:11.13 | _ASK | the configuring application needs the proper code to change settings |
| 10:11.36 | _ASK | that the code is valid or not is irrelevant; what matters is that the application can change the settings |
| 10:12.16 | _ASK | i already found the program which does the check, i dissasembled it, extracted resources |
| 10:12.30 | _ASK | i even found the exact resource which contains the "not valid" string |
| 10:12.31 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-13-26.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:12.43 | _ASK | what i have no idea is how to NOP |
| 10:14.15 | _ASK | i must find the procedure call which shows the dialog on the screen |
| 10:14.32 | _ASK | and trace backwards to find the instruction which compares the codes |
| 10:16.13 | _ASK | oh, I'm getting old; I used to do this all the time. |
| 10:19.14 | SpeedEvil | You're assuming it's a simple code, and not a way to answer a challenge from the network though. |
| 10:19.34 | _ASK | it's a simple code |
| 10:19.41 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 10:19.43 | _ASK | you can get it activating passtrough |
| 10:19.50 | _ASK | but i don't have the cable |
| 10:20.01 | _ASK | and i'm trying to disable the code just by software |
| 10:22.35 | SpeedEvil | If it was me, I'd put the comparison in the network, and the dialog simply prints the result of the comparison in the network. Anyway, we have no CDMA here. |
| 10:24.32 | _ASK | if it was you phones would run linux =) |
| 10:25.44 | _ASK | we are talking about lazy private company coders |
| 10:25.55 | _ASK | they simply put a number expecting nobody will ever know |
| 10:27.44 | *** join/#openmoko tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 10:30.44 | _ASK | and in fact, i don't think there is so much people out there with the knowledge to crack such codes |
| 10:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko bh1 (n=bh1@zux006-058-029.adsl.green.ch) |
| 10:48.25 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-238-242.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 10:49.55 | hrw | if someone built openmoko packages yesterday or today - prepare for break |
| 10:50.12 | _ASK | damn, I'm stuck. |
| 10:50.13 | hrw | if you built 2 days ago then you will not notice |
| 10:52.09 | *** join/#openmoko tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 10:57.12 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
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| 10:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54929e71.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:58.31 | sannes | counter |
| 10:58.31 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week 01:01:28 (7.043 +-7.0 days) (682,132) |
| 10:59.16 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-185-053.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:59.48 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lab_ (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 11:01.04 | aloril | (script) openmoko-neo1973: Sean Moss-Pultz <sean at openmoko.com> Re: Wifi |
| 11:01.19 | koen | hrw: what kind of break? |
| 11:01.52 | koen | ah, nm |
| 11:01.59 | koen | splitting out of -journal |
| 11:09.19 | *** join/#openmoko kart_ (n=kart_@202.141.96.29) |
| 11:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-008.eplus-online.de) |
| 11:10.10 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-140-111.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:12.00 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@m26.net81-64-228.noos.fr) |
| 11:18.24 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r61 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (series uboot-remove-extra-boards.patch): Remove extra uboot boards which don't build properly yet |
| 11:19.15 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r62 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added setup-openmoko-developer target. |
| 11:24.06 | *** join/#openmoko kart_ (n=kart_@202.141.96.29) |
| 11:24.16 | rwhitby | NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svnnow-r4_6db7d0af2336c126e4d4b2f248cc23516bdd46a8_1557: task do_build: completed |
| 11:24.39 | hrw | what changed since 1511? |
| 11:24.58 | roh | rwhitby :) |
| 11:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-001.eplus-online.de) |
| 11:25.59 | rwhitby | hrw: that reminds me, I need to set up RSS from cia.vc openmoko project |
| 11:26.36 | roh | sigh svn: Can't connect to host 'svn.berlios.de': Connection refused |
| 11:26.59 | rwhitby | http://cia.vc/stats/project/openmoko/.rss |
| 11:28.40 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03dodji * r1567 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-events-area.c): |
| 11:28.40 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Fix a potential crasher when calendar or adressbook could not be open. |
| 11:28.40 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * applications/openmoko-today/src/today-events-area.c: |
| 11:28.40 | CIA-16 | openmoko: (today_events_area_set_events_auto): don' t g_object_unref() NULL |
| 11:28.40 | CIA-16 | openmoko: objects. |
| 11:28.42 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03dodji * r1568 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/ (ChangeLog configure.ac libmokojournal/moko-journal.h): |
| 11:28.44 | CIA-16 | openmoko: Started the libmokojournal API draft |
| 11:28.46 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * openmoko-libs/configure.ac: add libecal as a dependency. |
| 11:28.48 | CIA-16 | openmoko: This is used by libmokojournal. |
| 11:28.50 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * openmoko-libs/libmokojournal/moko-journal.h: started to draft the |
| 11:28.52 | CIA-16 | openmoko: obvious part of the API. |
| 11:29.01 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 11:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:44.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:AGPS]] |
| 11:50.25 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 11:56.55 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@12.150.184.170) |
| 11:57.07 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lab (n=koen@wlan138149.mobiel.utwente.nl) |
| 11:57.15 | *** join/#openmoko Char80 (n=ircap8@pc-102-248-83-200.cm.vtr.net) |
| 12:15.10 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p213.54.175.38.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 12:15.26 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 12:17.41 | aloril2 | counter |
| 12:17.41 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:51:09 (6.994 +-7.0 days) (683,132) |
| 12:19.28 | hrw | !ombug 335 |
| 12:19.28 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 335, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown |
| 12:19.29 | cdbot2 | * * openmoko(AT)hrw.one.pl: Annoying typo in dfu-util |
| 12:19.30 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=335 |
| 12:19.45 | aloril2 | in about 4.5 hours uncertainty should be 6.9 days ;-) |
| 12:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 12:43.42 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.211) |
| 12:51.15 | Elrond | counter |
| 12:51.15 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:34:22 (6.982 +-7.0 days) (684,132) |
| 12:56.56 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@xdsl-87-79-242-239.netcologne.de) |
| 12:58.32 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@p85.212.72.20.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 12:59.45 | *** join/#openmoko pavelm (i=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz) |
| 13:03.35 | pavelm | Hello, everyone |
| 13:06.23 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=deluxe@p213.54.4.155.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 13:06.32 | quickdev | counter |
| 13:06.33 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:26:43 (6.977 +-7.0 days) (685,132) |
| 13:06.37 | pavelm | Hello, quickdev |
| 13:06.43 | quickdev | hello :) |
| 13:07.02 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 13:07.26 | pavelm | It seems pretty empty here... |
| 13:07.39 | pavelm | ...was there any success with GPS on openmoko? |
| 13:07.44 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 13:07.48 | SpeedEvil | Not as yet. |
| 13:08.03 | SpeedEvil | Global Locate are still being slow apparently. |
| 13:08.32 | pavelm | Too bad. Thanks for info, speed. |
| 13:08.45 | SpeedEvil | No further delay information. |
| 13:09.04 | SpeedEvil | I suspect they are concentrating on getting them shippable. |
| 13:09.24 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.144.231) |
| 13:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:10.23 | SpeedEvil | AIUI, just slow at actually generating the binary blob. |
| 13:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 13:10.42 | mjr | ok |
| 13:10.57 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:13.03 | pavelm | Hello, magon, send greetings to Troja |
| 13:13.16 | hrw | hi pavelm |
| 13:13.35 | pavelm | Hi, hrw! |
| 13:13.57 | Magon | pavelm: ? |
| 13:14.25 | pavelm | I got dialer somehow working, by using snapshot from buildhost |
| 13:14.27 | Magon | pavelm: are you going to matrix? |
| 13:14.31 | pavelm | magon: Yes. |
| 13:14.46 | Magon | pavelm: maybe see you there :-) |
| 13:14.46 | pavelm | magon: Not sure if I want to carry openmoko with me, though. |
| 13:14.53 | Magon | pavelm: you have already one? |
| 13:14.54 | pavelm | magon: Which team? |
| 13:15.04 | Magon | pavelm: Brumici |
| 13:15.05 | pavelm | magon: Yes. |
| 13:15.07 | Magon | grr Medici |
| 13:15.14 | pavelm | magon: Sedma beruska z deviti. |
| 13:15.27 | Magon | i have seen you there |
| 13:15.56 | Magon | pavelm: how have you got neo? |
| 13:16.26 | pavelm | magon: They were sending out few of them as "phase 0". But it has some severe hw problems... |
| 13:16.53 | Magon | pavelm: i know..but it was quite hard to be one of them |
| 13:17.04 | pavelm | magon: I made it ;-) |
| 13:17.18 | Magon | you are hacking kernel on it? |
| 13:17.45 | pavelm | ...no wonder dialer does not work on it... gsmd asks for pin, and apparently there's no gui for that. |
| 13:18.15 | hrw | pavelm: disable pin or write script which will echo pin to gsm modem |
| 13:18.35 | pavelm | magon: I was getting tui to work on that, because kernel was actually pretty usable |
| 13:18.41 | pavelm | hrw: I was able to enter pin from gsmd |
| 13:18.43 | Magon | ok |
| 13:18.55 | pavelm | hrw: But then gui got confused, and I stare at blank screen. |
| 13:19.22 | Magon | pavelm: if everything goes well i will write the Footer app |
| 13:19.54 | pavelm | hrw... ok, I ran another dialer, and this one asks for pin. ... but I entered pin already. |
| 13:20.33 | pavelm | is gsmd expected to handle commandline client (libgsmd-tool -m shell) and graphical fronend at same time? |
| 13:21.02 | hrw | no idea |
| 13:22.28 | pavelm | hrw.. it seems to somehow work. But still no sound, and alsamixer complains alsamixer: function snd_mixer_load failed: Inappropriate ioctl for device |
| 13:22.39 | pavelm | ...which probably means mismatched kernel and userland. |
| 13:22.49 | pavelm | magon: Footer is status bar? |
| 13:22.58 | *** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:23.29 | rwhitby | libgsmd-tool and gui dialer do work at the same time |
| 13:23.50 | Magon | pavelm: yes |
| 13:24.03 | pavelm | ...wow, now I got gsm call working. But still no sound. |
| 13:24.34 | hrw | pavelm: you need proper alsa config for it |
| 13:25.11 | rwhitby | e.g. http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmhandset.working.state |
| 13:25.19 | rwhitby | or http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/neo1973/gsmheadset.working.state |
| 13:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko quickdev (n=deluxe@p213.54.4.155.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 13:29.06 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@84-72-54-173.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:30.00 | pavelm | I tried playing with alsa, but no luck yet. |
| 13:32.09 | XorA | pavelm: sounds like OABI alsa running on EABI kernel |
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| 13:37.29 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 13:38.55 | pavelm | xora: Hopefully not. |
| 13:41.36 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1569 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-license.patch): add patch to display license (GPLv2) at commandline prompt |
| 13:43.36 | pavelm | What is the best way to get gsmd/dialer/etc sources? Should I pull them from svn? |
| 13:45.03 | hrw | yes |
| 13:45.06 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu2y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 13:45.52 | pavelm | Are there svn pull instructions somewhere? I do not see them in the wiki :-( |
| 13:47.10 | hrw | use OE |
| 13:47.12 | hrw | ;D |
| 13:47.37 | pavelm | hrw: I'd acutally like to get it working on PC, for debugging. |
| 13:47.44 | pavelm | hrw: And OE scares me ;-) |
| 13:48.09 | prpplague | hehe |
| 13:48.16 | florian | pavelm: you are not alone ;) |
| 13:48.22 | SpeedEvil | There needs to be an OE chrootable image for the scared. |
| 13:48.46 | pavelm | Where are gpsd sources? Not in projects.openmoko... |
| 13:49.59 | SpeedEvil | gpsd.sourceforge.org IIRC |
| 13:50.23 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 13:50.29 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=ClaudioT@200.184.118.141) |
| 13:52.00 | pavelm | Oops, sorry. I meant gsmd... and did wrong search, too. |
| 13:52.17 | pavelm | ...but neither gsmd is on projects.openmoko |
| 13:53.00 | SpeedEvil | dunno |
| 13:53.09 | *** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@194.65.5.235) |
| 13:53.21 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: svn.openmoko.org |
| 13:53.56 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: projects... is for projects around openmoko not the base system |
| 13:54.25 | DukeOfURL | counter |
| 13:54.25 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 23:02:47 (6.960 +-7.0 days) (686,132) |
| 13:55.30 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
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| 13:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@m26.net81-64-228.noos.fr) |
| 13:57.08 | pavelm | stefan: What is the magic command for pulling svn repository? |
| 13:57.24 | pavelm | ..aha, I know now. |
| 13:57.55 | pavelm | ...svn checkout http://svn.openmoko.org/ |
| 13:58.26 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3FC10.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:59.14 | *** join/#openmoko Matt__x (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-154-65.burl.east.verizon.net) |
| 14:03.42 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 14:05.56 | pavelm | ...I created the page on openmoko svn. |
| 14:06.49 | *** join/#openmoko primz (n=primz@e178010100.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 14:07.23 | primz | is the openmoko purchasable at the end of march? |
| 14:07.24 | aloril | primz: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:08.11 | pavelm | primz: Probably not. |
| 14:11.46 | aloril2 | counter |
| 14:11.47 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 22:54:06 (6.954 +-7.0 days) (687,132) |
| 14:11.58 | *** join/#openmoko yonibear (n=yonibear@p54A960D6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:12.29 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 14:13.34 | PBeck | hi |
| 14:13.44 | primz | cool, six days |
| 14:15.33 | XorA | six plutonian days :-) |
| 14:16.08 | SpeedEvil | It's one-faced with Charon IIRC |
| 14:16.16 | SpeedEvil | couple of days? |
| 14:16.28 | XorA | 153 hours |
| 14:16.35 | primz | sucks there is no wifi yet |
| 14:17.16 | *** part/#openmoko yonibear (n=yonibear@p54A960D6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:17.47 | pavelm | primz: Wifi is cool but this is supposed to be a phone... And it has bluetooth. |
| 14:20.02 | init_alx | yeah. i think of it as more of a blackberry type thing |
| 14:21.23 | guaqua | i think of it as the future |
| 14:21.44 | guaqua | the public transport is installing wlan here in helsinki, finland |
| 14:21.58 | guaqua | so the opportunities to use it are increasing all the time |
| 14:22.05 | aloril2 | still no preorders |
| 14:22.07 | guaqua | there are city-wide networks aswell |
| 14:25.23 | primz | wifi is good for finding hotspots and skyping off of them |
| 14:25.32 | hrw | ok. my neo will get simcard |
| 14:25.46 | primz | i pine for the day when phones dont have simcards or need carriers. they'll just be wimax handsets :) |
| 14:26.02 | SpeedEvil | Wimax is unfortuantely hyped. |
| 14:26.40 | SpeedEvil | If everyone used it, you'd get horrible interference between the AP you want to talk to, and the hundreds you diddn't. |
| 14:27.33 | guaqua | primz: i'm waiting for the day we are all in huge wireless meshes and the ap's move according to the meshes ;) |
| 14:28.33 | SpeedEvil | Meshes don't work very dense at 2.4Ghz. |
| 14:28.56 | SpeedEvil | The basic problem is that as you go out, the sum of distant nodes have a noise sum that goes to infinity. |
| 14:29.23 | SpeedEvil | You need some sort of absorbance - which works very well at 60Ghz for example. |
| 14:29.58 | nibbler_de | nothing wrong with properly deployed umts networks ;) |
| 14:30.24 | SpeedEvil | And meshes have the fundamental problem that if you have an average path length of 100 nodes, the best-case bandwidth is 1% of the nominal bandwidth, due to the other nodes. |
| 14:30.30 | SpeedEvil | And it never gets that good. |
| 14:30.35 | pjz | SpeedEvil: yeah, a friend of mine woeked at Vivato, who did phased-array antennas for wifi, and the protocol actually broke down once the ranges got big because of the number of nodes that could be seen |
| 14:30.53 | SpeedEvil | 60Ghz is an interesting case. |
| 14:31.02 | SpeedEvil | As it's half absorbed in 400m. |
| 14:31.16 | SpeedEvil | so you can get a finite number of nodes in distant view. |
| 14:31.29 | SpeedEvil | phased array - properly done - helps too. |
| 14:31.59 | pjz | SpeedEvil: I don't think that's a fundamental problem of meshes; I mean, what you said is true of course, but a smarter mesh would cut out intermediate nodes, and it seems unlikely to me that it'd take 100 hops to get to a hardwire |
| 14:32.08 | pavelm | speed: 10% of 54Mbps wifi is still 540kbps. Thats very good. |
| 14:32.55 | SpeedEvil | The problem then arises that the nodes next to hardwires get swamped. |
| 14:33.20 | pavelm | speed: That "noise background" in wifi. ... I don't think thats big problem. |
| 14:33.31 | SpeedEvil | Umm - yes, it is. |
| 14:33.42 | SpeedEvil | It raises the power needed to talk to your local AP. |
| 14:33.47 | SpeedEvil | or nearby node. |
| 14:33.54 | pavelm | speed: people are not distributed evenly over earth |
| 14:34.01 | SpeedEvil | which means that everyone else needs to raise power to be still able to talk. |
| 14:34.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_svn]] [[Gsmd]] [[Manually_using_GPRS]] |
| 14:34.12 | SpeedEvil | No, it's only a town/city problem. |
| 14:34.36 | SpeedEvil | And only then if you try to swap all wired for wireless - as some without understanding advocate. |
| 14:35.11 | SpeedEvil | There simply isn't the bandwidth over the air to cope with demands. |
| 14:35.25 | SpeedEvil | Unless it's managed carefully. |
| 14:36.03 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=ClaudioT@200.184.118.141) |
| 14:36.38 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that for 'nearby' nodes - you can do the collision avoidance thing. But once a node gets over a certain distance, you can't recieve it, so can't avoid collisions. It's just noise to you. |
| 14:37.00 | pavelm | Keeping some wires certainly makes sense. |
| 14:37.17 | pavelm | ...but these days my country is pretty well covered with wifi. |
| 14:37.36 | pavelm | Unfortunately most of that is not publicly available |
| 14:38.05 | SpeedEvil | The problem only really arises when you get it publically available, and used. |
| 14:38.50 | pavelm | speed: people are still limited by battery power of their gadgets. |
| 14:39.38 | pavelm | speed: so I do not think people away from home can consume any big ammount of bandwidth. |
| 14:40.08 | SpeedEvil | Wifi at the moment consumes some 10-20 times more than it could with more evolved hardware. |
| 14:40.15 | SpeedEvil | for the same power out. |
| 14:41.14 | SpeedEvil | The problem only gets very bad when you try to connect many fixed points with wifi. |
| 14:41.14 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-238-242.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 14:41.30 | DukeOfURL | Has there been any discussion about which web browser would be appropriate for the Neo? |
| 14:41.55 | pjz | anyone else having problems getting to svn.berlios.de? |
| 14:42.10 | pjz | er, getting svn access to it? |
| 14:42.42 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: Firefox! :) |
| 14:44.33 | pavelm | speed: you want something smaller.minimo? |
| 14:49.22 | DukeOfURL | I wonder if FIC should send Mozilla Foundation a P1 phone? |
| 14:50.38 | stefan_schmidt | DukeOfURL: Why? Firefox needs 1GB RAM at least for working. :) |
| 14:51.00 | DukeOfURL | Not Firefox, Minimo. |
| 14:51.22 | stefan_schmidt | Still developed? |
| 14:51.23 | DukeOfURL | We don't need all the XUL stuff on the Neo... |
| 14:51.33 | XorA | minimo is dead anyway |
| 14:51.40 | DukeOfURL | why? |
| 14:53.04 | XorA | oh, looks like someone woke the project again cool |
| 14:53.44 | *** join/#openmoko mwester_ (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 14:54.34 | Elrond | XorA - My home box used to have 128MB, worked with firefox and seamonkey. |
| 14:54.44 | SpeedEvil | To be semi-serious, I've actually used FF for some months on 128M |
| 14:54.55 | SpeedEvil | And still use 1.5 on 196 |
| 14:55.16 | Elrond | I use 2.* on 256 and run lots of other stuff in paralell. |
| 14:55.36 | SpeedEvil | And with 'mousegestures' it even will work fairly well with a touchscreen. |
| 14:55.49 | koen|lab | webkit ftw! |
| 14:56.06 | stefan_schmidt | Ok guys 1GB was unfair, but it still sucks a lot of ram. :) |
| 14:56.10 | XorA | it makes my eyes bleed |
| 14:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=cworth@66-191-21-16.dhcp.lncn.or.charter.com) |
| 14:57.55 | SpeedEvil | Fundamentally - it's not a bad idea - a JS browser. |
| 14:58.06 | SpeedEvil | The problem is there are no working dev tools. |
| 14:58.18 | hrw | does someone got imei from his neo? |
| 14:58.29 | SpeedEvil | you can't find out how much memory your change is actually using. |
| 14:58.40 | SpeedEvil | hrw: most phones have it under the battery cover |
| 14:58.47 | SpeedEvil | dunno... |
| 14:59.00 | Elrond | Isn't there an AT-command for it? |
| 14:59.47 | guaqua | and again, more about the mesh idea. i believe it will be done in the future, and it will be the standard. the technology just isn't there yet. and also, i'm not saying it's done with any specific technology |
| 14:59.50 | pavelm | bye, heading for matrix. |
| 15:00.44 | *** join/#openmoko mwester__ (n=mwester@nslu2-linux/mwester) |
| 15:01.43 | hrw | Elrond: it is. |
| 15:01.59 | hrw | Elrond: but I'm getting "<serial number>" instead of imei |
| 15:02.16 | Elrond | hrw - *ARG* |
| 15:02.41 | XorA | hrw: well that stops someone cloning it :-) |
| 15:02.41 | Elrond | hrw - *duck* Get a 10GHz logic analyser ;o) |
| 15:02.59 | hrw | hmm.. someone remember AT to set pin? |
| 15:03.03 | SpeedEvil | of the form 350600/80/338251/7? |
| 15:04.42 | hrw | nice.. |
| 15:04.48 | hrw | AT+CFUN=1 |
| 15:04.48 | hrw | +CME ERROR: 10 |
| 15:05.00 | hrw | CME ERROR 10 == Sim not inserted |
| 15:05.22 | Elrond | Huh. |
| 15:05.25 | Elrond | What's CFUN? |
| 15:06.09 | hrw | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM |
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| 15:17.39 | hrw | hmm.. I need gammu on neo ;) |
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| 15:24.31 | Chapay | hello, who from russia !? |
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| 15:31.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo/ru]] |
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| 15:31.52 | Chapay | aloril :) It`s my work ") |
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| 16:17.32 | seemant | ,/48 |
| 16:17.44 | TRIsoft | gtg cu |
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| 16:28.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC/ru]] [[Main_Page/ru]] |
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| 17:06.19 | aloril2 | counter |
| 17:06.20 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 21:26:50 (6.894 +-6.9 days) (688,132) |
| 17:09.10 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
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| 17:15.41 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@1cc-dhcp-174.media.mit.edu) |
| 17:19.23 | CM | Quiet eve here today |
| 17:28.31 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:29.24 | *** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 17:31.31 | aloril2 | ETA==uncertainty (uncertainty just has less digits ;-) |
| 17:33.54 | CM | counter |
| 17:33.54 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 21:13:02 (6.884 +-6.9 days) (689,132) |
| 17:35.21 | gonnafail | i assume counter means how long until the phone is released? |
| 17:35.21 | aloril | gonnafail: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:35.22 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 17:35.22 | SpeedEvil | In theory. |
| 17:35.39 | gonnafail | now thats a release only for testers and programmers correct? |
| 17:35.57 | SpeedEvil | Anyone can buy it. |
| 17:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54950DFD.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:36.22 | CM | gonnafail: It will be possible to call with it, but it will be far from finished |
| 17:36.29 | ninHer | it is not still deployed for mass market |
| 17:36.51 | gonnafail | oh i am fine with that, i am basically looking for a dev platform to play with |
| 17:37.06 | CM | Same here :) |
| 17:37.17 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 17:37.25 | gonnafail | is it going to be sold off the site? or where? |
| 17:37.57 | SpeedEvil | yes - details in the announce |
| 17:38.09 | CM | I think mickeyl or LaF0rge said they were working on the shop pages right now |
| 17:38.21 | CM | Not "they", but the web design guys |
| 17:39.22 | gonnafail | ok thanks, i first read about this probably a year or so ago and kinda forgot about it, just came back to me today so have been readin through the site for about an hour now trying to catch up on whats going on |
| 17:39.52 | CM | Was a few delays with the first hardware, but now things seem to be working ok |
| 17:40.24 | koen | http://planet.openmoko.org/ is a good news source |
| 17:40.54 | gonnafail | i coulda sworn when i first read about it there was wifi on it, but now it doesnt. did it ever have wifi or am i imagining that? |
| 17:41.14 | koen | you imagined that |
| 17:41.24 | CM | I guess they always wanted wifi, but no one wanted to sell it to them |
| 17:41.26 | koen | I think you confuse the neo with the ROAD |
| 17:41.37 | gonnafail | haha, allright thats what i figured |
| 17:41.41 | koen | since the news about the neo isn't a year old |
| 17:41.49 | CM | November last year? |
| 17:41.56 | gonnafail | the ROAD? |
| 17:41.57 | koen | e.g. nothing was know in november last year |
| 17:45.16 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@213-202-170-73.bas504.dsl.esat.net) |
| 17:45.19 | gonnafail | so anyone know why they chose to leave out wifi? |
| 17:45.57 | so_solid_moo | gonnafail: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko |
| 17:47.27 | gonnafail | thanks that answered all my questions |
| 17:48.39 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178085248.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:49.24 | woglinde | counter |
| 17:49.24 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 21:05:18 (6.879 +-6.9 days) (690,132) |
| 17:51.29 | kiney | hmm, 6.879 days with a tolerance of 6.9 days? |
| 17:51.29 | aloril | kiney: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:51.43 | kiney | that's strange |
| 17:57.27 | mwester | Not strange, just a high degree of uncertainty. |
| 17:58.35 | drath | heh, well, it's certainly not going to be 6.879 - 6.9 days ;) |
| 17:58.38 | pjz | kinda brokenish though |
| 17:58.42 | pjz | right |
| 17:58.53 | pjz | and it was originally +- 7 days |
| 17:59.34 | pjz | the problem is that it needs to recompute the +- part now that we're inside it |
| 17:59.43 | mwester | Oh come on - rounding. I'd agree it's broken if it said 6.879 +- 6.900, but it's 6.9; there's a diff. |
| 18:00.12 | kiney | but the 6.9 already is not exact |
| 18:00.25 | kiney | I think what's meant was "less than 7) |
| 18:00.43 | pjz | tomorrow it shouldn't be 6 +- 7, it should be 6.5 +- 6.5 |
| 18:01.33 | woglinde | lol |
| 18:02.02 | mwester | I guess given the tolerance is so high, one can safely argue that the precision of the fist figure is waay to high; my old engineering professor would take a letter grade off for that mistake. |
| 18:02.04 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: Asterisk on Openmoko |
| 18:02.29 | mwester | s/fist/first/ -- my english prof would have taken a letter grade off for that speeling misteak. |
| 18:03.24 | kiney | "misteak"? |
| 18:03.46 | drath | ... |
| 18:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 18:03.58 | mwester | So it should be 6.9 +- 6.9. Can we get a standard deviation with that stat? |
| 18:04.04 | *** join/#openmoko Matt__x (n=chatzill@pool-71-169-154-65.burl.east.verizon.net) |
| 18:04.46 | so_solid_moo | it probably shouldn't recalculate the error margin |
| 18:05.04 | so_solid_moo | it's not like the uncertainty is decreasing |
| 18:05.17 | woglinde | mwester at? |
| 18:05.35 | kiney | yes, the uncertainty ist decreasing |
| 18:05.54 | kiney | all the time that is passing now, for shure ist NOT the release-date |
| 18:06.04 | kiney | so the time-window is getting smaller |
| 18:06.14 | so_solid_moo | sure, but it's not like in 6.9 days the uncertainty is zero |
| 18:06.20 | kiney | no |
| 18:06.27 | kiney | then ist -0 +6.9 |
| 18:06.37 | kiney | it's not symmetrical |
| 18:06.42 | Kero | the Q is, is it really max two weeks! :) |
| 18:06.43 | mwester | woglinde: at what? |
| 18:07.25 | mwester | Kero: you are confusing statistics with reality! ;) :p |
| 18:07.30 | woglinde | mwester the spelling error |
| 18:07.47 | woglinde | hm oh okay |
| 18:07.49 | woglinde | args |
| 18:07.58 | woglinde | I dind read it proper |
| 18:08.19 | Kero | mwester: just checking my (real) expectations with some counting script :) |
| 18:09.04 | mwester | hehe -- the positive side is that there is a counter; most companies would take our orders and money, and only then would they tell us when we might see the product - maybe. |
| 18:10.56 | kiney | yes... youre right |
| 18:10.56 | kiney | they call it "preorder" an sell the product (if they ever sell it) one year later... |
| 18:11.11 | Kero | so... 6.9 + 4.75 months - 6.9 days... |
| 18:11.26 | Kero | where 4.75 months is 4.75 +/- something else... |
| 18:11.43 | kiney | 4.75 months? |
| 18:11.46 | balrog-kun | here you don't get the hardware but you get a counter :p |
| 18:12.00 | Kero | september is P2, no? |
| 18:12.16 | kiney | I guess |
| 18:12.20 | drath | should be |
| 18:12.46 | drath | but afaik P0 and P1 got delayed, so I wouldn't count on P2 either |
| 18:14.40 | mwester | If this was a typical product, there would be a strong incentive to have the P2 ready by December. |
| 18:15.04 | kiney | because of christmas? |
| 18:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178215236.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:16.24 | SpeedEvil | P1 and 2 were hardware delays though. |
| 18:16.27 | SpeedEvil | err 0 and 1 |
| 18:19.06 | parag0n_ | once p1 has been made though, p2 has the hardware site sorted |
| 18:19.09 | parag0n_ | *side |
| 18:19.16 | parag0n_ | it all depends on the software |
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| 18:20.53 | drath | SpeedEvil: heh, P1+ is still said to bring wifi, and i doubt that'll work out without hardware problems |
| 18:21.57 | Elrond | counter |
| 18:21.58 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 20:49:01 (6.867 +-6.9 days) (691,132) |
| 18:22.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC]] |
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| 18:27.11 | aevin | wow, < 1 week (+/- 1 week) left :-) |
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| 18:30.40 | kiney | the wiki says that the final version will have a faster cpu... what is the cpu-speed now, and what will it be? |
| 18:30.57 | SpeedEvil | 200Mhz/266Mhz |
| 18:31.04 | SpeedEvil | finally - who knows |
| 18:31.10 | SpeedEvil | 400 is possible. |
| 18:31.23 | kiney | so now ist has 200? |
| 18:31.28 | SpeedEvil | Think at the moment of a pentium 100. |
| 18:31.33 | kiney | ok |
| 18:31.35 | SpeedEvil | IIRC it's 200/266 switchable. |
| 18:31.39 | kiney | k |
| 18:32.21 | drath | heh, a pentium 100 should be able to do a lot more |
| 18:32.28 | drath | being fp and stuff |
| 18:33.32 | koen | a pentium 100 is as fast as a p4 10GHz |
| 18:33.39 | koen | all hail netburst! |
| 18:33.41 | drath | hehehe |
| 18:33.56 | mmp | drath: (I could not resist, sorry:) but pentium 100 doesn't have some of ARMs features, which can speed it up:) |
| 18:34.36 | mmp | but anyway, small cute fpu is always welcome:) |
| 18:34.41 | balrog-kun | yeah, and it depends on what kind of program you run, most programs don't use the fp at all |
| 18:35.10 | ebel | what's fp? |
| 18:35.13 | drath | floating point |
| 18:36.00 | drath | always want to try out that neat vfp of the lpc3180 i have on my desk, and never find time for it |
| 18:36.11 | mmp | balrog-kun: yes, but the remaining 1% of programs using it run on similar devices for quite a lot of time on normal user's devices... |
| 18:36.44 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTu1y (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 18:36.55 | balrog-kun | yea.. |
| 18:39.13 | mmp | OT: any idea, is armv5te (especially the 'e' at the end) capable of giving visible performance advantage over non '-e' one? |
| 18:39.13 | aloril | mmp: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:40.19 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:40.20 | drath | mmp: yeah, for example single-cycle multiplies in some cases |
| 18:40.25 | koen | or if you want to count leading zeros |
| 18:41.04 | mmp | yes, but it was advertised as a quite big help to particular algorithms, e.g. fft and similar... |
| 18:42.12 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 18:42.12 | drath | it also bring saturated arithmetics |
| 18:42.53 | drath | s/bring/brings/ |
| 18:43.42 | drath | and 16-bit fixed point |
| 18:43.52 | drath | though i have no idea how much impact that has |
| 18:44.39 | *** join/#openmoko pH5_ (n=ph5@e178241048.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:45.36 | mmp | hmm, maybe once I'll be able to measure it:) |
| 18:45.45 | mmp | drath, koen: thanks for answers:) |
| 18:46.14 | roh | hey pH5 |
| 18:47.38 | pH5 | hey roh |
| 18:47.42 | balrog-kun | arm also has generally more registers than a pentium, which means less storing and loading to ram (if the compiler is smart) |
| 18:49.07 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@249-116-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 18:49.46 | pH5 | roh: LaF0rge said you're located in berlin, too? what will you be working on? |
| 18:50.10 | aloril2 | mwester: digits in counter don't have any real meaning: they just give sense of movement ;-) |
| 18:50.24 | mmp | balrog-kun: not mentioning 1 cycle instructions (it's basically RISC, so I hope), smaller overhead for syscalls, ... :) |
| 18:50.48 | mwester | Ah, I get it -- like the "push to cross" button for pedestrians at busy intersections... |
| 18:50.57 | mwester | :-D |
| 18:51.48 | aloril2 | also counter is unofficial, it's based on stuff mentioned in page it refers |
| 18:54.29 | roh | pH5 i will not develop so much, i will do some testing and help all you guys get problems fixed |
| 18:57.41 | roh | but we'll see.. propably i will hack patches here and there |
| 18:58.58 | pH5 | roh: great. from what I've seen openmoko still needs a lot of testing :) |
| 18:59.40 | roh | oh yeah ;) |
| 18:59.55 | roh | btw.. the dialer dials now!!1! ;) |
| 19:00.19 | roh | pH5 you have jabber? |
| 19:00.40 | stefan_schmidt | roh: You're late. It already dial for some time. ;) |
| 19:01.00 | pH5 | stefan_schmidt: I'm currently trying to make the dialer fit on my qvga display. |
| 19:01.07 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1570 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: |
| 19:01.07 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * use sysfs_{create,remove}_group |
| 19:01.07 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * clean up some unrelated Kconfig change that should never have been here |
| 19:01.18 | pH5 | roh: pH5@jabber.org |
| 19:01.20 | roh | stefan_schmidt i know.. but now it seems to register byitself so its working without kicking the gsm(d) manually |
| 19:01.51 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: great. Less work for me on EZX later. :) |
| 19:02.02 | stefan_schmidt | roh: :) |
| 19:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-13-26.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:04.05 | *** join/#openmoko _ASK (n=chatzill@189.146.153.95) |
| 19:04.31 | roh | pH5 i have one of the armzone develboards from laforge with a qvga display here |
| 19:04.55 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: It looks good for icons and all other graphics directly from the designers. Still some time needed, but we should get a qvga theme identical to vga. |
| 19:06.01 | pH5 | stefan_schmidt: but we need to stop the gui designers hardcoding interface sizes. |
| 19:06.18 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@port-212-202-236-178.static.qsc.de) |
| 19:06.20 | pH5 | I currently don't have a better idea than scaling the values I see with the screen width. |
| 19:06.21 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: *shrug*, yes |
| 19:07.03 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: Once p1 is out the things will calm down a bit. I would suggest open bugs about this problem then. |
| 19:07.08 | pH5 | this will work for vga/qvga portrait but probably break again with square or 16:10 displays. |
| 19:07.17 | pH5 | stefan_schmidt: right |
| 19:10.47 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1571 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: * add missing NULL terminating entry to sysfs group |
| 19:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko drath_ (i=vmaster@p5B07DED3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:18.44 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1572 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: * make sure we only try to install lowlevel_foo.bin if it is actually present |
| 19:19.17 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1573 10/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb: oe/tasks: add rssreader and messages to task-openmoko |
| 19:19.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1574 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: |
| 19:19.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * print which configuration is set |
| 19:19.56 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * fix typo (Closes: #335) |
| 19:20.55 | hrw | mickeyl: openmoko use one OE revision? |
| 19:21.00 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 19:21.07 | mickeyl | let me grab it for you |
| 19:21.23 | hrw | thomas asks me from time to time to add/change something in OE |
| 19:21.38 | mickeyl | we're on e2dbb52fe39df7ef786b6068f6178f29508dfded |
| 19:21.46 | hrw | ok |
| 19:21.48 | mickeyl | g'night |
| 19:21.54 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1575 10/trunk/oe/conf/site.conf: remove openalchemy, those are local changes. |
| 19:21.55 | mickeyl | going to update next month again |
| 19:22.10 | hrw | cu mickey|zzZZzz |
| 19:22.27 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1576 10/trunk/oe/packages/upstart/upstart_0.3.5.bb: add some update-alternatives related hunks |
| 19:22.58 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@201.10.98.169) |
| 19:26.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1577 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-pcf50606.patch: |
| 19:26.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * introduce platform_data usage for pcf50606 driver |
| 19:26.05 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * this makes it less GTA01 specific and rather a more generic pcf50606 driver |
| 19:26.21 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1578 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: * make use of new pcf50606 platform_data |
| 19:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@port-212-202-236-178.static.qsc.de) |
| 19:33.35 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1579 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: * enable WDT feature of PCF50606 |
| 19:33.52 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1580 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/hxd8-core.patch: * use new configurable PCF50606 driver |
| 19:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 19:40.16 | CM | Lots of updates :-) |
| 19:40.28 | pH5 | hmm. the dialer does AT+COPS, which results in CME ERROR 3 on the htc firmware. AT+COPS=0 works |
| 19:40.51 | *** join/#openmoko drWyrM (i=c8db8414@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-711fdde09e5010ed) |
| 19:41.40 | roh | *sigh* |
| 19:42.08 | roh | pH5 i thought =0 is allowed to be left out by gsm spec? |
| 19:42.37 | pH5 | roh: if that is correct, HTC obviously didn't care about the gsm spec :) |
| 19:43.31 | roh | i'm not shure.. eventually the abbreviation is just optional |
| 19:43.48 | cjb | mornin'. |
| 19:43.51 | roh | or they don't care... regardless.. tried if it dials when you patch that? |
| 19:44.06 | pH5 | sometimes things like this happen and confuse the gsmd state machine. |
| 19:44.25 | cjb | can someone tell me how to get a terminal up? I don't seem to get prompted to interrupt u-boot, a getty on serial, or rxvt loaded by default anymore. |
| 19:44.40 | pH5 | roh: I get the SYNC PI message and then DISCONNECT, not sure what goes wrong inbetween |
| 19:44.48 | pH5 | s/PI/%CPI/ |
| 19:45.07 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@213.207.210.231) |
| 19:45.44 | roh | cjb plug it on usb and ssh on 192.168.0.202 as root with no pass |
| 19:45.44 | koen | cjb: attach usb and use ssh |
| 19:45.56 | roh | export DISPLAY=:0 and execute rxvt |
| 19:46.37 | koen | or sync back task-openmoko.bb and the matchbox session from OE |
| 19:46.50 | cjb | roh: thanks. |
| 19:46.51 | koen | gives you a .desktop for rxvt and a virtual keyboard |
| 19:47.00 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@cmi21.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 19:47.27 | cjb | any idea why the serial getty was disabled? |
| 19:47.34 | cjb | that would be most useful for me. |
| 19:47.46 | hrw | cjb: because it is same line as gsm modem |
| 19:47.55 | Elrond | cjb - Because the same serial line is connected to the gsm. |
| 19:48.04 | hrw | cjb: and serial console require neo to be connected to debug board |
| 19:48.38 | Elrond | pH5 - BTW: Can you upload the full-res pics to flickr next time? :) |
| 19:48.52 | Elrond | Guys, what's wrong with ssh? :) |
| 19:48.54 | cjb | oh. I haven't talked to a getty over serial before? Okay, must be misremembering. |
| 19:49.43 | koen | balrog-k1n: like I said, merge back the changes from OE |
| 19:49.45 | roh | recent ones start the gsmd which enables gsm power and disables the serial console in the process |
| 19:50.08 | roh | comment out the gsmd start and it could work again... but i didn't try |
| 19:50.27 | balrog-k1n | koen: yea, i'm just very lazy and will avoid installing all the OE & bitbake on my machine for as long as i can |
| 19:51.13 | koen | or install a kernel and rootfs from http://www.angstrom-distribution.org/unstable/images/20070325/fic-gta01/ and be happy :) |
| 19:52.03 | balrog-k1n | probably a good idea - although the kernels form buildhost.openmoko.org are Ok |
| 19:52.05 | roh | balrog-k1n you can do that on images which you already have. put a exit 0 near the start in /etc/init.d/gsmd |
| 19:52.27 | hrw | roh: update-rc.d -f gsmd remove |
| 19:52.54 | koen | hrw: is your SIM working yet? |
| 19:53.04 | balrog-k1n | roh: my problem is recursive: i can't get a terminal on the recent images, thus i can't run the command, thus i can't get a terminal :p |
| 19:53.11 | hrw | koen: it works |
| 19:53.13 | pH5 | Elrond: is there a way to do it that doesn't involve me having to think about it? |
| 19:53.15 | *** join/#openmoko |kris| (n=kvirc@216.249.143.62) |
| 19:53.16 | koen | hrw: cool |
| 19:53.22 | pH5 | I think flickr rescaled them for me. |
| 19:53.28 | hrw | koen: and it need pin |
| 19:53.48 | |kris| | probably a stupid question, but has anyone gotten a dev phone yet? |
| 19:53.49 | aloril | |kris|: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:54.11 | so_solid_moo | |kris|: yes, they have |
| 19:54.15 | Elrond | pH5 - Hum. Ask koen or so. ;) I haven't yet uploaded any pics to flickr. ;) |
| 19:54.16 | hrw | |kris|: p1 or p0 one? |
| 19:54.51 | |kris| | any |
| 19:55.08 | hrw | |kris|: 36 devels got p0 |
| 19:55.11 | |kris| | i read a lot on the site but didn't see anything actually saying that the phones shipped |
| 19:55.19 | |kris| | i may have missed it |
| 19:55.21 | |kris| | that is awesome |
| 19:55.23 | SpeedEvil | You did. |
| 19:55.24 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:55.39 | koen | Elrond: I use a mac :) |
| 19:55.41 | SpeedEvil | It's in [[neo1973]] IIRC |
| 19:55.42 | Elrond | Do we yet know anything about p1, except $(counter) ? |
| 19:55.52 | |kris| | ah, k |
| 19:55.59 | |kris| | thanks |
| 19:56.19 | |kris| | i can't wait for them to come out with the version meant for consumers |
| 19:56.38 | Elrond | |kris| - That is in September. |
| 19:56.57 | |kris| | i would get a devel one if i thought anything i would write for it would be useful to anyone but myself |
| 19:57.03 | |kris| | yeah, i did see that |
| 19:57.29 | Elrond | I'm waiting for GTA01Bv05 ;) |
| 19:57.44 | |kris| | well, i am at work, have to go, thanks guys |
| 19:57.53 | *** part/#openmoko |kris| (n=kvirc@216.249.143.62) |
| 19:58.04 | koen | Elrond: HXD8? |
| 19:58.59 | Elrond | koen - I think, hxd8 is new cpu, etc. I just want GTA01Bv04 with the last hw bugs of fixed. :) |
| 19:59.27 | hrw | hxd8 is new cpu or board with gpio extender |
| 20:00.04 | koen | made by FIC |
| 20:00.46 | koen | way cooler than gta01 because it has an 'x' in its name ;) |
| 20:00.58 | balrog-k1n | well, that's about all that is publicly known about HXD8 :p |
| 20:01.25 | balrog-k1n | it's not even known if it's a phone or an internet tablet or a linux enabled fridge |
| 20:01.29 | koen | april fools joke ;) |
| 20:01.54 | koen | balrog-k1n: it has a gsm modem and gps |
| 20:02.00 | Elrond | fridge with gps... Hmm. ;o) |
| 20:02.00 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z6333.z.pppool.de) |
| 20:02.04 | balrog-k1n | linux enable + gsm + gps enabled fridge |
| 20:02.08 | hrw | koen: and some kind of sd |
| 20:02.16 | koen | yeah |
| 20:02.18 | hrw | and usb host |
| 20:02.32 | Elrond | It's a cool fridge ;o) |
| 20:02.39 | koen | hrw: and capacitators |
| 20:02.47 | hrw | and vibrator |
| 20:02.54 | hrw | so it will be good for ladies |
| 20:03.00 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@16.pool85-50-100.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 20:03.08 | Mandarino | His! |
| 20:03.09 | balrog-k1n | flux capacitors :) |
| 20:03.19 | mwester | gps on the fridge for people in areas with a high rate of continental drift. |
| 20:03.25 | hrw | balrog-k1n: o yes! |
| 20:03.51 | Elrond | mwester - No for the caravan ;) |
| 20:04.08 | Elrond | s/NO/No,/ |
| 20:04.30 | Elrond | Hi Mandarino |
| 20:06.23 | Elrond | Maybe the hxd8 really is a washing machine? ;) |
| 20:07.40 | koen | it uses the gps as a rev counter |
| 20:11.36 | Mandarino | counter |
| 20:11.36 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 19:54:12 (6.829 +-6.8 days) (692,132) |
| 20:11.43 | Mandarino | aish |
| 20:11.56 | hrw | http://www.adultswim.com/games/fiveMinutes/ |
| 20:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko gabau1 (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 20:13.02 | hrw | ~lart flash badly |
| 20:13.02 | apt | stuffs flash badly into a shiny new tin can and vacuum seals it |
| 20:14.36 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACAEB007.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:16.49 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@201.66.107.174) |
| 20:17.39 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@213.207.210.231) |
| 20:28.21 | *** join/#openmoko dirakx (n=jcortes@69.79.145.81) |
| 20:29.37 | *** part/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.211) |
| 20:29.51 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@213.207.210.231) |
| 20:31.56 | *** join/#openmoko balrog-kun (i=balrog@174-mo5-1.acn.waw.pl) |
| 20:33.22 | pH5 | http://www.flickr.com/photos/ph5/440043927/ :) |
| 20:40.15 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1581 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-pcf50606.patch: * add PWM and PWM backlight support |
| 20:40.47 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1582 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/hxd8-core.patch: |
| 20:40.47 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * remove gta01bl device (we use PMU PWM) |
| 20:40.47 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * use new PWM_BL feature of PMU driver |
| 20:41.07 | roh | balrog-kun you cannot ssh into your moko? |
| 20:49.28 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1583 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: * add platform device for vibrator (via led driver api) |
| 20:49.48 | balrog-kun | roh: nope, it's an emulator and we don't have the usb gadget implemented (it probably makes no sense to emulate usb slaves) |
| 20:52.08 | Elrond | balrog-kun - get a real phone ;o) |
| 20:52.44 | balrog-kun | Elrond: this one boots faster :p |
| 20:52.52 | balrog-kun | it's rather exact 1:1 emulation otherwise |
| 20:53.42 | balrog-kun | the openmoko kernel detects ~740 BogoMIPS on my pc |
| 20:59.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1584 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-vibrator.patch: |
| 20:59.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * make gta01-vibrator actually compile (missing Kconfig/Makefile hunks) |
| 20:59.37 | CIA-16 | openmoko: * use platform_device's resource to determine GPIO |
| 21:00.57 | dho | balrog-kun: what're you using for emulation? |
| 21:07.33 | balrog-kun | dho: like what program? it's qemu |
| 21:07.54 | dho | Oh ok |
| 21:08.53 | roh | balrog-kun ah.. i see |
| 21:09.06 | hrw|gone | balrog-kun: you have zaurus emulation, neo emulation - something more? |
| 21:09.15 | prom | balrog-kun: what do you use it for? id especially be interested in a correct resolution. ;) |
| 21:10.12 | balrog-kun | hrw|gone: :) there are very incomplete machine setups for some palms and some ipaqs for the moment |
| 21:10.48 | balrog-kun | prom: i think it can be useful for debugging the kernel etc, |
| 21:11.21 | balrog-kun | prom: also the userspace things like battery monitoring, gsmd, and yeah the resolution |
| 21:12.04 | prom | balrog-kun: yesyes. i dont doubt that. im just more interested in UI and framework. so id like graphical correctness and a usable touchscreen emulation. |
| 21:13.19 | balrog-kun | i don't know how usable the touchscreen is.. i was able to use xstroke with it, and even the finger wheel in openmoko |
| 21:13.25 | balrog-kun | it isn't very comfortable though |
| 21:13.51 | roh | isn't the fingerwheel just 2 buttons... |
| 21:14.46 | prom | balrog-kun: well, you have the obvious drawbacks. but the current solutions are worse. i tried xoo, but it propagates cursor/pointer changes. so there is no pointer. certainly fixable, but not there right now. ;) |
| 21:14.52 | balrog-kun | roh: yeah, but it looks way cooler :) |
| 21:16.45 | prom | id also prefer an emulation with a more exact runtime environment. without having a bunch of chrooted background forks for the daemons. |
| 21:17.00 | koen | like a real neo? |
| 21:18.31 | prom | koen: i have one. and i have access to some more. i still prefer emulators for appdev for a whole lot of reasons. |
| 21:18.58 | koen | why do you need an emulator for app development? |
| 21:19.06 | koen | do you like to hardcode machine specifics? |
| 21:19.16 | prom | for one, you can just instantiate another one. |
| 21:19.44 | prom | no, i dont. but a UI like this one is never completely resolution-independent. |
| 21:20.26 | balrog-kun | you can accidentally do an rm -rf / , reboot and have a new working environment :) |
| 21:21.23 | prom | that too. also, the mobile application community as it exists is used to emulators. including frameworks for SMS and cell-broadcast simulation. and for bluetooth. |
| 21:22.09 | prom | all the major players have emulators. either just for J2ME or even down to the operating system. nokia has the later. |
| 21:22.56 | prom | (major players in the phone market - ive been doing some not-too-lowly j2me for a living) |
| 21:23.41 | prom | might be just me being pretty used to the emus, but its achievable and a cool feature. so probably i should start patching instead of explaining myself. ;) |
| 21:24.31 | dho | balrog-kun: But you're not using qemu to emulate the hardware environment -- just serve as an ARM base to run OpenMoko and emulate the user environment, right? |
| 21:24.39 | prom | XorA|gone: why? i know that. ive compiled the reference implementation its based on myself and attached some testing hooks. |
| 21:25.29 | roh | dho i think noone is supposing to write a hardware-emu for moko components |
| 21:25.32 | XorA|gone | prom: well you diss Xoo which is pretty much the same, but somehow having full Java behind the J2ME emulator is ok |
| 21:25.48 | dho | roh: Just wasn't sure whether that existed or not |
| 21:25.52 | dho | (would be nice though) |
| 21:25.53 | roh | no need for that. its about shorter compile-try-edit-recompile for app development |
| 21:26.08 | balrog-kun | dho: yes, we're emulating most of the chips with very high level of detail |
| 21:26.12 | roh | dho: whould be nice, but also too much work which better goes into the real thing |
| 21:26.24 | rwhitby | I thought OpenMoko was employing someone to update qemu to support the Neo directly? |
| 21:26.25 | prom | XorA|gone: yes, because the java env is still more complete than xoo. actually, the vm used by the sun emulator is used in several phones. |
| 21:26.46 | roh | rwhitby uh? thats new to me |
| 21:27.06 | rwhitby | roh: Sean said it in an email very early on. Maybe plans have changed since then. |
| 21:27.10 | koen | rwhitby: that's what I heard, but ETA is a few months |
| 21:27.14 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: yeah, this is it |
| 21:27.56 | prom | XorA|gone: and i dont diss xoo. its great. i just want more. as i said. i should start patching. if there is noone working on it anyway. ;) |
| 21:28.04 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: is that in an accessible repo anywhere? |
| 21:28.19 | rwhitby | (the work in progress) |
| 21:28.55 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: i was told yesterday that we're only waiting for mickey|zzZZzz for a repo access to upload it |
| 21:29.06 | rwhitby | cool, thx. |
| 21:29.07 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=Michael_@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 21:30.26 | balrog-kun | hence why i feel i can openly mention the emulator here on irc, as earlier it was suggested that i wait until it's more mature |
| 21:30.37 | prom | cool. so ill just have to wait a little longer. :) |
| 21:31.34 | koen | heh |
| 21:31.38 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3FABE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:31.50 | koen | the indt guys found a nice bug in qemu: it only runs code compiled with gcc |
| 21:32.10 | roh | *g* ... some nice WTF ;) |
| 21:32.19 | prom | *lol* |
| 21:32.24 | koen | when they used llvm to compile stuff qemu crashed because it doesn't implement the complete armv5te instruction set |
| 21:32.35 | balrog-kun | koen: that is qemu-arm? |
| 21:32.36 | koen | and llvm uses the complete set :) |
| 21:32.40 | balrog-kun | oh |
| 21:32.52 | koen | iirc they sent the patch upstream |
| 21:33.02 | balrog-kun | koen: i run closedsource firmware in it, including PalmOS (some proprietary C++ compiler) and wince bootloader |
| 21:35.00 | koen | "Developers who are using maemo 3.0 can now upgrade to maemo 3.1 using the "dist-upgrade" method." |
| 21:35.12 | koen | it only took nokia 1.5 years to figure out how to use apt..... |
| 21:35.42 | woglinde | koen *g* |
| 21:36.21 | koen | (that's was about the SDK rootstrap, not the actual device) |
| 21:36.22 | *** join/#openmoko ebel_ (n=rory@212.2.176.164) |
| 21:36.34 | koen | (you still can't use apt to update that) |
| 21:41.53 | *** join/#openmoko init_alx (n=alx@gotnull.net) |
| 21:42.12 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 21:51.45 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 21:55.52 | rwhitby | No such file or directory: '/home/moko/oe/p\ |
| 21:55.52 | rwhitby | ackages/uboot/files/./uboot-20070311-tools_makefile_ln_sf.patch |
| 21:57.06 | rwhitby | LaF0rge: can you check that file into SVN please? |
| 21:57.49 | rwhitby | (or anyone else at OM who may have access to it ...) |
| 21:58.46 | CIA-16 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r63 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (series uboot-remove-extra-boards.patch): uboot-remove-extra-boards obsoleted by upstream fix |
| 22:00.01 | roh | rwhitby not yet |
| 22:00.07 | roh | ;) |
| 22:00.24 | rwhitby | roh: I have access to the SVN, but not the file :-) |
| 22:00.44 | Dodji | rtp, ping |
| 22:01.00 | roh | rwhitby :) |
| 22:01.16 | rtp | Dodji: pong |
| 22:16.42 | DukeOfURL | counter |
| 22:16.48 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 6 days 18:51:36 (6.786 +-6.8 days) (693,132) |
| 22:17.47 | Elrond | pH5 - BTW: My fault. high res pics are only available to pro accounts on flickr. Which of course cost money. Please excuse me. |
| 22:21.24 | pH5 | Elrond: don't worry. actually, most of my pictures are so blurred, higher resolution wouldn't have helped anyway :) |
| 22:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko Char80 (n=ircap8@pc-102-248-83-200.cm.vtr.net) |
| 22:22.21 | Elrond | pH5 - Oh. What cam do you use? |
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| 22:29.59 | LuitvD | hello there |
| 22:30.06 | LuitvD | anything new lately? |
| 22:31.09 | LuitvD | no? well I've got something nice from OCZ: http://www.ocztechnology.com/aboutocz/press/2007/207 |
| 22:31.30 | LuitvD | that'd be nice with a FIC neo don't you think? :) |
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| 22:35.21 | SpeedEvil | Personally - I've got no use for SD full-size reader - as I don't really have one. |
| 22:35.28 | SpeedEvil | So I just went for a cheap small reader. |
| 22:35.44 | SpeedEvil | microsd only reader that is. |
| 22:36.33 | SpeedEvil | Also I'm modding a 1GB key with a battery and neo-compatible plug. |
| 22:37.20 | roh | why? |
| 22:37.28 | SpeedEvil | Backup. |
| 22:38.21 | roh | i just got 1gb sandisk transflash for <18E at conrad (which is not known for cheap= |
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| 22:38.30 | SpeedEvil | Backup and a charger adaptor too. |
| 22:39.13 | DukeOfURL | I don't see the USB bit on the OCZ device... |
| 22:39.18 | DukeOfURL | bits |
| 22:39.22 | SpeedEvil | It folds down. |
| 22:39.58 | SpeedEvil | The right-hand edge folds down to expose the plastic usb-shaped bit |
| 22:40.45 | DukeOfURL | looks kinda fragile |
| 22:41.15 | SpeedEvil | '6 year warranty'... |
| 22:41.37 | SpeedEvil | Personally I prefer stuff that does not look quite that fragile. |
| 22:42.01 | DukeOfURL | yea right--it's got all my stuff and I break it off in the USB socket. warranty does me no good if my data is lost. |
| 22:42.14 | SpeedEvil | well, in that case, you don't care |
| 22:42.23 | SpeedEvil | you slide the microSD out and put it in anotehr reader |
| 22:43.02 | DukeOfURL | is SD just flash memory, or is there a processor on board? |
| 22:43.19 | SpeedEvil | There is probably a processor in there |
| 22:43.25 | SpeedEvil | it's not general purpose though. |
| 22:43.36 | SpeedEvil | It's there to do wear leveling, and talk to the NAND. |
| 22:43.56 | roh | SpeedEvil its in the transflash when i get them right |
| 22:44.04 | roh | and does usb on the same chip |
| 22:44.27 | SpeedEvil | the wear leveling stuff is in the microsd/sd/transflash |
| 22:44.52 | SpeedEvil | the OCZ thingy will just be a USB reader, and probably a seperate mechanical adaptor. |
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| 22:46.14 | SpeedEvil | mechanical as in 8 wires from the little to the big SD card |
| 22:48.04 | DukeOfURL | I'm looking at my Moto RAZR. The USB appears to have five connectors. Is the fifth a chasis ground? |
| 22:48.19 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 22:48.38 | DukeOfURL | No the outside edge is chasis ground. What is the fifth lead for? |
| 22:48.40 | SpeedEvil | VCC, data 0 and 1, GND |
| 22:48.53 | SpeedEvil | the fifth lead is for switching direction |
| 22:49.03 | SpeedEvil | google "usb on the go" |
| 22:49.09 | DukeOfURL | k |
| 22:49.26 | SpeedEvil | the four are just like they are for USB normal |
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| 22:51.09 | DukeOfURL | so the fifth is for flow control? |
| 22:51.42 | SpeedEvil | It's more direction control - it's not meant for real-time use. |
| 22:51.53 | DukeOfURL | So how does the mini-USB to USB cable work? Camera to PC? |
| 22:52.27 | SpeedEvil | It just shorts it - or is it opens. |
| 22:53.23 | DukeOfURL | got it. thanks |
| 23:06.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Hardware:AGPS]] |
| 23:10.06 | gonnafail | will the neo support sdio? |
| 23:10.31 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:10.36 | SpeedEvil | well. |
| 23:10.44 | SpeedEvil | The microSD slot is buried. |
| 23:10.59 | SpeedEvil | look at [[expansion back]] on the wiki |
| 23:12.16 | gonnafail | what do you mean by buried? |
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| 23:12.32 | gonnafail | on the pic it looks accessible from the side? |
| 23:14.00 | Elrond | You have to remove the battery to access it. |
| 23:14.01 | Elrond | AFAIK |
| 23:14.02 | SpeedEvil | It's not. |
| 23:14.25 | SpeedEvil | Well - with the case off - bottom and top - it might be. |
| 23:14.30 | SpeedEvil | But that risks shorting stuff. |
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| 23:15.29 | gonnafail | ok i see what you mean, ok well accessability aside, would it support sdio if you had access to the slot? |
| 23:16.09 | balrog-kun | yes, but the chance is very little that your SDIO card has a driver |
| 23:16.41 | SpeedEvil | Of course you could write one. |
| 23:17.32 | gonnafail | thats what i was hoping to do |
| 23:18.28 | gonnafail | thanks for the help guys |
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| 23:19.27 | Elrond | gonnafail - Don't consider this dependable info. None of us has a real phone to verify. |
| 23:20.06 | balrog-kun | if SD works, there should be no reason for SDIO to not work i guess |
| 23:20.32 | balrog-kun | hardware-wise |
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| 23:21.50 | Elrond | I have not looked at the mmc drivers. Is there something like mmc-in-hardware? |
| 23:22.45 | balrog-kun | what would mmc-in-hardware be? |
| 23:23.57 | Elrond | Something, that makes an mmc card straight look like a harddisk or so. ;) |
| 23:24.28 | balrog-kun | not in the Neo, or not in any SoC i know |
| 23:24.32 | Elrond | Heh, I'm too far away from hardware to really know. I just keep hearing of chips that even do FAT or so. |
| 23:24.49 | balrog-kun | there are the usb card readers that make them look like usb mass storage (which is scsi) |
| 23:25.06 | Elrond | Yeah, or that. |
| 23:25.52 | balrog-kun | with the MMC host in s3c24xx or PXA or OMAP, you need to use the raw mmc/sd command set to talk to the card |
| 23:26.08 | balrog-kun | this is also the case with some card readers in some laptops |
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| 23:26.30 | DukeOfURL | is BlueTooth client/server ot peer2peer? |
| 23:26.31 | balrog-kun | the difference is that they'll appear under /dev/mmcblk0 instead of /dev/sda |
| 23:26.36 | Elrond | And that "raw mmc/sd command set" is sdio? |
| 23:26.57 | balrog-kun | may be sdio |
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| 23:28.18 | Elrond | A friend told me, that sd really is spi or so... |
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| 23:29.45 | prom | Elrond: kinda. all SD cards must support an SPI mode. |
| 23:29.51 | balrog-kun | that's not truth, SD and MMC cards have something called SPI mode, but nobody uses that |
| 23:30.24 | prom | balrog-kun: some do. especially on microcontrollers. |
| 23:30.28 | balrog-kun | also you could drive an SD card if you connected the pads to a raw SPI port or even a bunch of GPIOs |
| 23:30.42 | balrog-kun | that would be kindof bitbanging |
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| 23:47.03 | Elrond | A friend plans to drive an sd card from an 8051 based uC using SPI. |
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