IRC log for #openmoko on 20070326

00:02.23ElrondYeah, law-stuff via irc is always "no warranty". I know.
00:03.09ElrondWell, I'm in the black box reverse engeenering business for 7 years now. I don't need to disassemble. :)
00:04.17rwhitbymorning
00:04.34Moo^^Elrond: so you're a hacker :)
00:08.48ElrondMoo^^ - developer/maintainer/... ;)
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00:17.48rohElrond ;) nice to hear
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01:07.05roh*sigh* ... why does it build cups now?
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01:39.35DukeOfURL\
01:39.42DukeOfURLback up?
01:40.19rohpress [AUX] to select, [POWER] to execute. ;)
01:42.45DukeOfURLcounter
01:42.45alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 10:17:15 (11.429 +-7.0 days) (627)
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01:56.39aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:Messages]]
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03:22.28peepsalotcounter
03:22.28alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 08:37:31 (11.359 +-7.0 days) (628)
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03:57.39aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
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04:17.16JasonBBBhttp://www.TheTruthAtLarge.com  <---Site based on the discussion of Philosophy, Religion, War, and the like.  Please join the forum and speak your mind.
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05:18.49MarkFIs anyone in here participating in the google summer of code?  (mentor or student?)
05:18.49alorilMarkF: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
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05:56.40aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]]
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06:22.57CIA-16openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1494 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-appmanager/ (16 files in 3 dirs): Add new status pictures to the project.
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06:35.40aloril(script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: agpsd status
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06:51.17MarkFIs anyone here participating in the google summer of code?  (Mentor or student).  I'm applying for the mythtv remote, and i'm looking for any other students or mentors working on other projects (http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code#MythTV_Advanced_Remote_Control)
06:52.04CIA-16openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1495 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-appmanager/ (6 files in 3 dirs):
06:52.04CIA-16openmoko: Use the action pixtures instead of the texts for the
06:52.04CIA-16openmoko: buttons on the tool box.
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06:56.40aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Press_Coverage]]
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07:11.18balrog-kunMarkF: i am, but in a different project
07:12.22MarkFWhat project?
07:13.00balrog-kunhandhelds.org
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07:17.35MarkFcool
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07:22.49balrog-kunwell, i gotta run, i will bbl
07:31.22mikeshcounter
07:31.22alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 04:28:37 (11.187 +-7.0 days) (629)
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07:46.02MarkFWhat is the bluetooth range with a Neo phone?
07:49.00rohMarkF  like normal bluetooth
07:50.38MarkFfrom what i'm reading bluetooth can go 30-300 (http://www.thetravelinsider.info/roadwarriorcontent/bluetooth.htm)
07:50.49MarkF30-300 ft*
07:51.03koendepends on your bluetooth class
07:51.11koenI suspect the neo will have the 10m one
07:51.35MarkFok
07:51.42MarkFthanks
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07:56.40aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers]]
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08:04.40Hopscotchgood morning
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08:08.34alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 03:51:25 (11.161 +-7.0 days) (630)
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08:24.41rwhitbyhttp://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/03/25#20070325-returning_from_taipei
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08:26.47rwhitbyaloril: your bot needs to monitor the openmoko planet rss feed too :-)
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08:39.16alorilrwhitby: hmm.. yeah
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09:15.09prayaghi guys can anyone here help me with bluetooth development for openmoko ??
09:15.09alorilprayag: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
09:15.22CM:)
09:15.57madwootalol
09:16.03prayag:)
09:16.05CMprayag: I don't know much, but my bet would be to get to know the bluez utils
09:16.27CMEven if they seem to be rewriting a lot right now
09:17.07CIA-16openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1496 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/ (9 files in 2 dirs): add stylus style menu object to openmoko-panel-mainmenu
09:17.09prayagi did go to blueZ site ... its not exactly a very help site :)
09:17.26rwhitbyprayag: if we knew what you wanted to do with bluetooth on openmoko, we might know how to help you.  on IRC, you don't ask to ask, you just ask.
09:18.22prayagwell, i don;t know how muchsense i might be making... i want to know if OBEX or any other profile is *as yet* supported for openmoko
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09:19.12rwhitbyprayag: there are obex utilities in OpenEmbedded, so the base OBEX functionality will be available to ipkg install at least.
09:19.50inzSCREWYOUGUYSIMGOINGHOME
09:19.58inzOoops, wrong channel
09:20.05rwhitbyprayag: look in http://www.openembedded.org/filebrowser/org.openembedded.dev/packages for the set of packages that potentially work on OM
09:20.32prayagok thanks... i would have a look
09:22.20rwhitby(e.g. obexftp, obexpush, and bluez)
09:22.46rwhitbythere is no UI written for that stuff yet.
09:22.50rwhitby(as far as I know)
09:23.02hrwprayag: want sdptool output?
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09:23.45TRIsoftmorning
09:24.03hrwhi Mac
09:24.57hrwbattery in bv3 is flat again...
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09:25.10SpeedEvil:(
09:25.42hrw~hail fic for using nokia bl-5c
09:25.53aptACTION bows down to fic for using nokia bl-5c and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
09:26.00hrwI just replaced FIC battery with 3rd party one
09:26.47XorAhrw: I managed to get out of the bv3 flat battery problem using a bv2 to charge the battery, so that bug is wierd
09:27.08hrwXorA: I have external charger for bl-5c batteries ;d
09:27.16hrwless then 2 EUR for charger
09:28.06hrwor rather: <2 eur for stand used to charge bl5c batteries. as it need nokia charger
09:34.11hrwneo respond to l2ping but not to sdptool ;(
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09:34.45CIA-16openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1497 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-mainmenu/src/stylusmenu.c: small modify
09:36.39CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1498 10/trunk/doc/hardware/GTA01Bv4/: start with GTA01Bv4 as copy of GTA01Bv3
09:36.59CMBv4 :)
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09:39.25rwhitbyI guess LaF0rge brought a GTA01Bv4 back from Taiwan
09:40.21rwhitbyhrw: I found I had to add a "discovto 0" to hcid.conf to make it discoverable.
09:40.31hrwhx
09:40.54hrwoptions or device part?
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09:41.11rwhitbyoptions, just under the pscan iscan stuff is where I put it
09:41.21hrwok
09:42.07rwhitby(I was able to get the Treo650 to pair with it, and ssh'd into the Neo from the Treo)
09:42.24rwhitby(using dund and ppp on the Neo)
09:46.03hrwbt looks unstable...
09:46.28hrwonce it gives me name from bluez.. once 'CSR - bc4'...
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09:56.56koen|labhrw: marcel should be aback from brazil, so he has time (and neo!) to work on bluetooth
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09:58.29hrwbv3 has to be usb connected to host anyway so no rush
09:59.18rwhitbyhrw: I was able to keep an ssh session from Treo to Neo going for at least an hour
09:59.28rwhitby(not much traffic, but it stayed up)
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10:06.46koen|laball bv3 devices have the same BT mac....
10:07.37hrw;D
10:11.04CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1499 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/Makefile.am):
10:11.04CIA-16openmoko: * src/Makefile.am: Change binary name to openmoko-today to be more
10:11.04CIA-16openmoko: consistent with other openmoko applications
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10:51.03CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1500 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/ (9 files in 3 dirs): * Rename today.png to openmoko-today.png
10:58.55CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1501 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-ui.c):
10:58.55CIA-16openmoko: * src/contacts-ui.c: (contacts_setup_ui): Make sure we always create an
10:58.55CIA-16openmoko: initial Groups menu. Fixes OpenMoko bug 314.
10:59.42*** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)
11:00.08floriangood monring
11:00.39*** join/#openmoko em_a (n=em@130.192.76.236)
11:00.51ewanm89mobGood day!
11:11.28aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]]
11:12.47*** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco)
11:18.21parag0n_counter
11:18.21alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 00:41:38 (11.029 +-7.0 days) (631)
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11:18.38parag0n_is it just me, or has the counter started increasing?
11:19.30StephmwI remember it at a week 5 days yesterday... so it's just you :D
11:27.47XorAhmm, dont try and write a 60meg file via usb to neo
11:28.20parag0n_no mms support!
11:28.38parag0n_looks like i know what i'll be implementing!
11:29.24parag0n_wait a secons... we already have email mode.... its pretty much the same thing!
11:31.42parag0n_the more i look at it, the more openmoko isn't great for the UK market
11:31.51koen|lunchor an openmoko polymer frontend
11:31.56parag0n_reliance on mobile data, no mms
11:32.15XorAparag0n_: Im pretty sure it will have mms by P2 release
11:32.22ElrondHi guys.
11:32.23Robot101parag0n_: MMS? I've never sent or received one, and I can't name any of my friends who have...
11:32.23Stephmwparag0n_: the UK market is shit for data
11:32.35parag0n_Stephmw, that was my point
11:32.41Robot101parag0n_: and data is coming, t-mobile have tarrifs with unlimited data
11:32.47parag0n_thank god
11:32.53Elrondcounter
11:32.53alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 4 days 00:27:06 (11.019 +-7.0 days) (632)
11:32.57Stephmwshame about t-mobile's coverage
11:32.58Robot101and I've got a vodafone 3G card which is unlimited too
11:33.03parag0n_if thats a sensible price, i'll be switching right off
11:33.05Robot101so it won't be long
11:33.27Robot101parag0n_: yeah it's reasonable, web'n'walk tarrifs from t-mobile. they've been around for ages
11:33.32koen|lunchRobot101: good morning!
11:33.41Robot101I'm a bit of a vodafone junkie though because their coverage totally dominates everyone else's
11:33.48Robot101and I find myself in silly places like up mountains
11:33.49koen|lunchparag0n_: €10/month
11:33.50parag0n_the thing that annoys me about mms is that i did a load or mms-based programming last year for work, so i know how EASY it is ;)
11:34.06StephmwI used to be on voda... but their customer service really pissed me off
11:34.33Stephmwkoen|lunch: hehe
11:34.39Robot101I had a bit of an effort scoring an E60 from my local vodafone shop
11:34.41Stephmwkoen|lunch: the UK pretends to have hills
11:34.47Stephmwkoen|lunch: they're just roadhumps
11:35.00Robot101they found one for me, but claimed that they were discontinued and there was only 1 in the whole of vodafone UK
11:35.07Robot101when their website actually sold them
11:35.09Robot101*hmm* :D
11:35.12Robot101koen|lunch: moin
11:35.18Robot101(delayed reactions :D)
11:35.38StephmwRobot101: to be fair to their sales staff, it wouldn't be the first time a site sold stuff that was out of stock
11:35.50Robot101:)
11:36.17parag0n_18 month contract!
11:36.20parag0n_jees :/
11:36.23Stephmwwtf?
11:36.36Stephmwmy god, that's back to the stoneage
11:36.37parag0n_on web & walk
11:37.05parag0n_back in the day contracts used to be 6-12 months :<
11:37.24koen|lunchyou can get it as 'data-only', which is nice for USB UMTS cards and stuff
11:37.39parag0n_i'd need it for both
11:37.46parag0n_anyway, uni time
11:37.48parag0n_laters guys
11:37.58Stephmwparag0n_: bah, some people have all the luck
11:38.05*** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549299d3.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:38.48vradovicbut you need also to think about 802.16e Mobile wimax better then wi-fi or 3g
11:40.58ElrondOr IrDA or {what was this other BT like thingy?}
11:41.28Elrond... or DvEaF ;)
11:42.12vradovicno trust me 802.16e (mobile wimax) + BT + GSM will be exacly what people need (2008-2009)
11:43.41hrw802.73y will rule
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11:44.57SpeedEvilWimax is _vastly_ over-hyped.
11:45.04ElrondIs that like 803.85v? ;)
11:45.26vradovic:)
11:45.39inz803.1337z
11:45.48vradovicno you are not right wimax is very good open technology
11:46.05vradovicwe will got MOBILE BROADBAND like wi-fi today
11:46.07vradovicto each device
11:46.15vradovicfor each device
11:46.31SpeedEvilBandwidth is limited.
11:46.38*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net)
11:46.38vradovicno it is not
11:46.39Elrondvradovic - Not where I live.
11:46.41SpeedEvilyou will always get collisions and interference.
11:46.51SpeedEvilHow is bandwidth unlimited?
11:46.59vradovicWiMAX can use 3.5 GHz (europe) and 5.8 GHz (europe)
11:47.09SpeedEvilAnd how is that unlimited?
11:47.12Stephmwthat's still a limited resource
11:47.15vradovicthere is not interference because 3.5 is licenced
11:47.21Stephmwand what about the gateways?
11:47.24vradovicand on 5.8 you have 60 channels
11:47.26SpeedEvilYou will still - when many people start to use it - get interference.
11:48.02koen|lunchwinet ftw!
11:48.02SpeedEvil60 channels - with a 'long distance' transport method is not future-proof.
12:43.29*** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
12:43.29*** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> {www|wiki|bugzilla|planet|projects|lists|svn|svnweb } .openmoko.org | You can buy it around the end of this month for $350, see the wiki. Mass market in September.
12:45.25*** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-151-185-92.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)
12:45.56buzw000t
12:45.57CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1503 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: add print-out when enabling/disabling fast charge
12:51.12*** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@141.60.168.3)
12:54.17koen|labOcibu: the autotools stuff doesn't build shared libraries....
12:54.37koen|labOcibu: for gpstk to work on the neo someone needs to update the autofoo
12:54.49koen|labthe jam stuff is *not* suited for crosscompiling
12:55.15ocibuYea, jam is great for some stuff; Not for crosscompilling
12:55.25koen|lab(nor for compiling with a prefix, but that's another story)
12:56.31ocibuI am not overly automake literate but will work on it this evening (UTC-6)
12:56.54*** join/#openmoko Any_Key (n=Any_Key@sedova.highlink.ru)
12:57.20koen|labI also put in a call for volunteers at openmoko-devel :)
12:57.38koen|lab(m4 makes my eyes bleed, so I can only complain instead of helping)
13:01.54*** join/#openmoko l (n=root@61.141.186.197)
13:03.06koen|labk-s[WORK]: LaF0rge (in case you didn't get my privmgs)
13:03.21k-s[WORK]koen|away: ok
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13:08.20*** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46)
13:12.14aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Talk:IM]]
13:13.59CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1504 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410_udc.patch: add GTA01Bv4 support to UDC driver
13:18.51*** join/#openmoko ljp_ (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46)
13:21.02*** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host86-151-100-239.range86-151.btcentralplus.com)
13:21.03buzis next major revision 1.5 or 2008 device?
13:23.55*** join/#openmoko jgoo (n=e4b80e21@ktsivran.static.otenet.gr)
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13:26.43jgoohey there. great sounding project, can I ask, is this planned to be adopted by manufacturers, and released on new phones?
13:26.43aloriljgoo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
13:26.56jgootriffic.
13:27.00*** join/#openmoko WiggleCat (n=ScaredyC@81.187.78.218)
13:27.41WiggleCatanyone here?
13:27.42alorilWiggleCat: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
13:27.51WiggleCatwtf!
13:28.01Dodjirwhitby, ping
13:28.01Fletch:)
13:28.05*** join/#openmoko em_a (n=em@130.192.76.236)
13:28.28Any_KeyWiggleCat: no, only bots like me
13:28.37WiggleCatare the dev versions actually available now?
13:28.50jgooHey guys :) this project is great, kudos to FIC
13:28.57Fletchcounter
13:28.58alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 22:31:02 (10.938 +-7.0 days) (633)
13:29.01jgooI hope the hardware is a little open in design too... anyway
13:29.38jgooI'd just say that Java should be right up there as a priority. I'd even be willing to help out. But I am a Java developer, not a JVM developer
13:29.55WiggleCat*blink*
13:30.07Any_KeyWiggleCat: I'm THE RED Any key don't try your luck again
13:30.13jgoooooh. I have an ipaq 4700... or a 5200? hrm.
13:30.17jgooI must try this.
13:30.47WiggleCatthat just makes it worse Any_Key
13:31.53Any_KeyWiggleCat : you're been warned
13:32.52Dodjianybody understand why omoko build would fail like here http://pastebin.ca/410515 ?
13:32.53jgoobuz: the same reason that every phone has java is the same reason that every phone implements it different
13:33.10DodjiI am trying to build a qemux86 image with mokomakefile
13:33.16buzjgoo: yes but on this phone, you should be able to run bog standard J2SE
13:33.42jgooif there is a JVM written for this processor, then yes
13:33.44WiggleCatanyway... when where how can I get one then ..
13:34.04Any_Keyplease hand me spellchecker too
13:34.08buzi would venture to say there are ARM jvm
13:34.35jgoolicense issues? I can't even get a free JVM for my PDA :p
13:34.48balrog-kunthere are
13:34.54jgoodo tell
13:35.17balrog-kunhandhelds.org will have a summer of code project about adapting one of the general use jvm's to linux on PDA
13:35.20jgooI use superwaba right now... there was another VM from IBM that I cannot find... and PJava which I also cannnot find a download for
13:35.30buzif you skip the JIT, you might not even need arm specific code
13:35.30jgoobalrog-kun: aaah. so I can't use it today
13:35.36buzof course it'll be dog slow
13:35.53balrog-kunjgoo: i guess you could, if you just recompiled *the* JVM for arm
13:36.25SpeedEvilJIT would be nice of course.
13:36.28jgooafaik openmoko isn't tied to one CPU, and the neo#### runs on a samsung S3....
13:36.30jgoois that ARM?
13:36.30*** join/#openmoko prpplague^2 (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com)
13:36.37buzyes
13:36.45balrog-kunjgoo: yes, but that matters only for the kernel
13:36.49buzyou'd be hard pressed to find many phones that arent ARM
13:37.07buzbut of course arm!=arm
13:37.11balrog-kunjgoo: you can run debian or familiar or openzaurus userspace on it without any modifications
13:37.25jgoonice
13:37.27WiggleCat...mmmmm
13:37.30buzyeah but you cant run a x86 JIT on arm
13:37.56jgoook, I am back to the big wide world of the web. viel spass
13:37.58*** part/#openmoko jgoo (n=e4b80e21@ktsivran.static.otenet.gr)
13:38.06WiggleCatso that should mean you could run tomtom navigation s/w too then balrog-kun
13:38.12buzmaybe
13:38.30buzit could certainly be made to run by tomtom quite easily
13:39.09balrog-kunWiggleCat: is it even linux?
13:39.17WiggleCatthe Go is yes...
13:39.28balrog-kunwhoah, i didn't know about it
13:39.31*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)
13:39.42balrog-kunbut if they are using a sane normal then yes
13:39.44Any_KeyDodji: cd  /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i586-linux/libelf-0.8.6-r0/libelf-0.8.6/ ; ./configure --enable-compat
13:39.47WiggleCatand TT provide pretty much everything you need (other than the ttn app and maps ; )
13:39.55Any_Keyif I recall right
13:40.06hrwbalrog-kun: people started tomtom software on zaurus
13:40.09Any_Keythen do make again
13:40.20WiggleCatbalrog-kun, http://www.tomtom.com/page.php?Page=gpl
13:40.24DodjiAny_Key, okay will try
13:40.25balrog-kunhrw: awesome, i thought they were all proprietary
13:40.39*** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46)
13:40.46WiggleCatnaaa.. been hacking mine for years :)
13:41.12WiggleCatI've just completed an sqlite app too ...
13:41.19*** join/#openmoko Syg (n=zip@pixfw.ent.ncsu.edu)
13:41.40WiggleCatAll your POI are belong to me
13:42.04SygI'm going to guess the Mar 25 date wasn't firm. :)
13:42.12WiggleCathehehe
13:42.39Any_KeyDodji, if I was wrong ask quagua he helped me then I had such a problem
13:42.45CMcounter
13:42.45alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 22:17:14 (10.929 +-7.0 days) (634)
13:43.03DodjiAny_Key, woot, it worked perfect
13:43.14CMSyg: That's Phase 1 in about 11 days
13:43.15DodjiAny_Key, how do I properly fix that ?
13:43.35DodjiAny_Key, I mean, I guess some bb file needs patching or something
13:43.42Any_KeyDodji, Good, It may work from now
13:43.59koenDodji, Any_Key: update your .dev checkout and rebuild libelf
13:44.47Dodjikoen, you mean the openembedded directory ? I just did a mtn pull/update of it this morning
13:45.08Dodjikoen, when this thing got fixed ?
13:45.43*** join/#openmoko nm_ (n=hongtd@58.187.131.212)
13:46.16koenhttp://www.openembedded.org/viewmtn/revision.psp?id=846bde67b99146677600ce9b3ee03f06d8c764c3
13:46.38hrwbalrog-kun: they are propertiary ;D
13:47.30hrwSpeedEvil: 2G are confirmed working
13:47.38*** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
13:49.02koen122.5MB of gprs data last month
13:49.34balrog-kunhrw: only in part, as i understand
13:49.42prpplaguekoen: so how much is that going to cost you on your bill?
13:53.58XorAkoen: Why the insane padding in fic-gta01.conf in OE?
13:55.40*** join/#openmoko MortenLysgaard (n=Morten@ti500720a080-6120.bb.online.no)
13:55.51pH5XorA: Because old u-boot versions didn't erase the rest of the partition when updating via dfu-util. I think it shouldn't be needed anymore?
13:56.15XorApH5: did anyone actually tray and flash the 60Meg image?
13:56.24XorApH5: because it just crashes the phone here
13:57.00pH5XorA: I didn't. My first self-built openmoko-devel-image just finished building...
13:58.22MortenLysgaardHi guys =)
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14:00.14*** part/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net)
14:02.48PBecktag
14:02.52koenprpplague: €17.50, flatrate
14:06.30alorilbuz: I suspect laforge was talking about 2008 device in blog
14:06.50*** join/#openmoko eshep (n=eric@x024012.ppp.asahi-net.or.jp)
14:08.06*** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-24-1-39-131.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
14:09.57buzwell i just hope we get wifi in summer ;)
14:10.08buzafter that they can have all time they want to come up with the uberdevice
14:11.52WiggleCatI can't really see why there's no wifi...
14:12.08SpeedEvilBecause FIC are evil, and hate you.
14:12.52WiggleCatthat's probably true... I slept with their cats
14:12.59*** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@c-68-42-68-205.hsd1.mi.comcast.net)
14:13.18aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Main_Page/nl]] [[Template:Languages]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]]
14:13.34buzi think we have intact chances for wifi in summer-fall
14:13.40SpeedEvilInded.
14:13.46SpeedEvils/e/ee/
14:14.09buznow cue the "i want a cam" whining
14:14.20WiggleCateeewww
14:14.29SpeedEvilI want a V12, with race cams.
14:14.34WiggleCathow about - I really really DON'T want a cam
14:14.48SpeedEvilI find it handy.
14:14.55SpeedEvilNot so much for 'pictures of vomit'
14:15.01StephmwSpeedEvil: meh, they moved the V12 wish item to the 'never' list on the wiki
14:15.02WiggleCats/V12/hybrid
14:15.12CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1505 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410_udc.patch: fix compilation
14:15.20SpeedEvilmore for taking notes of stuff that would take ages to note down by hand.
14:15.32SpeedEvilFor example - dissasembly information from my car.
14:15.43SpeedEvilStephmw: Actually - that was me.
14:15.50Stephmwwile driving!
14:15.52SpeedEvilAlong with the teleporter.
14:16.02Stephmwand the perpetual motion device?
14:16.37StephmwSpeedEvil: and here I felt the description was subtle enough to allow it to survive a bit longer
14:16.52SpeedEvilI find the most misguided one is the request for 800*600
14:16.57SpeedEvilOn a phone.
14:17.00SpeedEvilON A PHONE!
14:17.02SpeedEvilsigh.
14:17.09vmasterheh
14:17.11Stephmwthey want sub-micron pixel accuracy :)
14:17.17hrwSpeedEvil: Toshiba has phone with 800x480
14:17.17SpeedEvilActually.
14:17.24CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1506 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch:
14:17.24CIA-16openmoko: Add support for GTA01Bv4 (make gta01bv4_config)
14:17.24CIA-16openmoko: * 266MHz PLL initialisation (instead of 200MHz)
14:17.24CIA-16openmoko: * GPIO changes
14:17.24CIA-16openmoko: * SYSTEM_REV 0240 is used for GTA01Bv4
14:17.24CIA-16openmoko: * Fix Vibrator pulse for GTA01v4/GTA01v3
14:17.34buzoh THAT is good thing
14:17.39CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1507 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-mokoversion.patch: bump mokoversion to indicate GTA01Bv4 support
14:17.45StephmwSpeedEvil: I think the outrageous ones were never intended to be anything but funny
14:17.54hrwLaF0rge: does 266MHz in Bv4 works with debug board?
14:18.04buzi could see SVGA on a slightly bigger screen
14:18.17CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1508 10/trunk/oe/packages/uboot/uboot-gta01_svn.bb: add gta01bv4 build support
14:18.17SpeedEvilIMO - funny has a place on a small page.
14:18.24SpeedEvilOn a large page, it just bloats it.
14:18.33Stephmwfair enough
14:18.40SpeedEvilIf you could do 16M*16M pixels, that could be interesting.
14:18.47*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)
14:18.50SpeedEvilAs you could do proper diffraction.
14:19.02Elrond*G*
14:19.30Elrondbuz - Yeah, a handheld gps I was looking at, had 3.5" display. :)
14:19.44buzi think the toshiba one is 3"
14:20.02buzheck gimme iphone with sliding qwerty and svga
14:20.06SpeedEvilIMO.
14:20.14buzrunning on CortexA8
14:20.33SpeedEvil800*600 only really has a point if it's >4" or so.
14:20.44buzmore pixel==better
14:20.49SpeedEvilWell...
14:20.54koenA8?
14:20.59buzsamsung has a 7" 1080p
14:20.59SpeedEvilMore pixel = more CPU to push the pixels around.
14:21.00ElrondI still like this 3.5" thingy. Except the closed firmware that uses extra heavy obfuscated data stuff.
14:21.00koenwow, that's a pretty beefy cpu
14:21.20Stephmwmore pixels... more power too
14:21.28SpeedEvilNot inherently.
14:21.32*** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3CFFB.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:21.42SpeedEvilOnly if you write out the display linearly.
14:21.43buzmwester: should be easy to have two version
14:21.48alorilkoen: I suspect v2 will have that in core
14:21.49SpeedEvilthere are other ways to access screens.
14:22.13WiggleCatbesides, if I wnat pics I'll use my tie-pin camera ;)
14:22.14mwesterbuz: if unit sales are strong enough to justify two hardware versions
14:22.17SpeedEvilthe AMD geode has an interesting idea that way too.
14:22.28SpeedEvilIt compresses the video buffer.
14:22.41hrwyesterday I used my phone to take photos in ikea
14:23.09SpeedEvilOn a read from the framebuffer, it reads from the compressed cache - unless it's marked as dirty for that line.
14:23.25buzmwester: that mostly depends on the pricing
14:23.25SpeedEvilIf it's dirty, it compresses, and writes back the compressed, and then displays.
14:23.26SpeedEvilIIRC
14:25.14SpeedEvilhrw: I find cameras useful for that too - when you have some ideas about what you want to buy, but are not sure.
14:25.14SpeedEvilTake piccys of the price labels so you don't forget.
14:25.14buzuse gprs to check if prices online are better ;)
14:25.15koenaloril: cortexa8 is a pretty bare core, and the only SoC I know of that uses it is the omap3
14:25.15SpeedEvilFor the sort of stuff I was buying - it was heavy non-deliverable stuff.
14:25.15Stephmwmwester: tbh, I much prefer the idea of (say) a SLR being controlled by a neo
14:25.46koen(see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture)
14:25.47koenaloril: and I now for sure v2 isn't using omap yet
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14:29.23alorilkoen: maybe rumored unreleased i.MX33 is another option?
14:29.54buzsome claim that imx33 uses cortex
14:30.11balrog-kuni heard they were rather considering the PXA cpus for future versions
14:30.15buzi think neo needs cortex. just to be able to call it NeoCortex of course
14:30.31buzPXA? they must know something about batteries that we dont
14:31.14balrog-kunthe PXA320 are supposed to be better than 270 in this regard
14:31.47buzit would probably help to buy from marvel to get gpl wifi chips, too
14:32.32CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1509 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: raise battery voltage monitor threshold from 2.8V to 3.3V (might solve looping)
14:33.04vmasterwith Marvell's policy on datasheets I doubt a PXA suits the needs of a open platform
14:33.34buzfreescale is good there
14:33.40buz1500pages of sheet available for anyone
14:33.47buzand so is samsung, in fairness
14:34.23balrog-kunsamsung is not bad, they just need higher clocking :p
14:34.45hrwiirc s3c are maxed at 400MHz?
14:35.02koenmarvell doesn't even give out a product list without an NDA
14:35.10vmasterwhat do you need the high clock for?
14:35.21koen"what chips do you have?" "please fax this NDA and we'll answer your question"
14:35.21hrwkoen: gtk 2.10.11 is in poky ;D
14:35.37koenhrw: .10 -> .11 is just a fix for tabs in epiphany
14:36.03koenhrw: level(bugfix) < threshold(laziness)
14:36.57buzsamsung needs a dieshrink first
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14:37.48balrog-kunhrw: 266MHz according to the product page
14:38.08balrog-kunthe new PXAs were supposed to be able to go above 1GHz iirc
14:38.12CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1510 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-omoko.c):
14:38.12CIA-16openmoko: * src/contacts-omoko.c: (create_main_window): Use correct icons on
14:38.12CIA-16openmoko: action buttons
14:38.36ElrondInstead of faster CPU, I want longer battery live.
14:38.49SpeedEvilI want the choice.
14:38.57SpeedEvilIf possible.
14:39.10buzi think omap3 is at 65nm now
14:39.21buzthat could help
14:39.25hrwEten X500 Samsung S3C 2442 400MHZ
14:39.26ElrondYeah, choice would even be better.
14:39.33CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1511 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch:
14:39.33CIA-16openmoko: * de-assert NAND write protection signal
14:39.33CIA-16openmoko: FIXME: we might do this only during nand write, rather than globally
14:42.16balrog-kunwhy would they really want a different CPU if not for the clocking?
14:42.47Elrondbalrog-kun - Less power consumption? ;)
14:43.00koenbalrog-kun: better instruction set?
14:43.06koene.g armv5 or armv6
14:43.16hrwarmv12
14:43.42balrog-kunElrond: s3c is supposed to be power efficient (i don't know how it compares to the alternatives)
14:43.58balrog-kunafaik linux on armv6 is not even all functional yet
14:44.01balrog-kunsame with gcc
14:44.51hrw<PROTECTED>
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14:46.04balrog-kun:)
14:46.21hrwhi greentux
14:46.47univac^^
14:47.06greentuxhi hrw.
14:48.06XorAhrw: 2443 goes to 533Mhz
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14:48.45buzwhich is why i believe that we might see it in p1.5
14:50.33XorAbuz see what?
14:50.42buzs3c2443
14:51.13XorAbuz: no chance, mainstream kernel barely supports it at moment
14:51.15buzmhh someone claimed p1.5 would run at 533
14:51.24quickdevI downloaded the rootfs build and build it manually, too - but always this error: http://rafb.net/p/qJvlg244.html
14:51.37buztho i believe 2440 also goes to 533
14:52.21quickdevanyone knows a solution?
14:52.50buzyeah 2440 goes to 533 too
14:53.38hrwXorA: with 'Nomad' name on it?
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14:54.23XorAhrw: nah. Meritch
14:55.30XorAalthough one quick solder job :-D
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15:05.42MortenLysgaardhttp://planet.openmoko.org/ does this mean that there are bright chances for wifi?
15:05.43prpplagueLaF0rge: the atheros gpl drivers you refered to in your post, have you got a url for it? the only one i have is for david singletons pages which doesn't have any
15:06.25buzprpplague: theresa a link on the wifi page in the wiki
15:06.36buzlives at SF
15:06.49*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net)
15:07.02prpplaguebuz: thanks, i think we have just about had all we can stand of marvell
15:07.44buzi think the drivers actually live in atheros sdio stack
15:08.50buzhttp://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=186068
15:08.51prpplaguebuz: well as long as the code is open and GPL, shouldn't be a problem to hack
15:09.06buzfrom all i know it is
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15:09.34prpplaguebuz: thanks
15:10.05buzyou're welcome
15:10.40prpplaguebuz: i've been working on the marvell libertas SDIO stuff for about 3 weeks, and there is simply not enough information available to complete a working sdio driver. marvell simply isn't interested in working with anyone who isn't purchasing more than 100,000 chips
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15:13.20aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Neo1973]]
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15:19.39SpeedEvilI'm going to do more tonight.
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15:39.08koenXorA: lots of red
15:39.18codeshepherdguys.. can I buy openmoko in singapore ?  does it have any limitations on the region where  you use it ?
15:39.18alorilcodeshepherd: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
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15:42.37SpeedEvilanywhere
15:42.43SpeedEvilas long as you have a GSM network.
15:42.48SpeedEvilWell, even if you don't.
15:42.55SpeedEvilbut it won't be as much use.
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15:46.56hrwARGH..
15:47.11SpeedEvilbattery?
15:47.13hrwmy Bv3 has serious problems with charging
15:47.21SpeedEvil:(
15:47.22*** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn)
15:47.45codeshepherdbut who is going to sell it it in Singapore ? are there people already doing it ?\
15:47.47hrwit is non-stop connected to usb host (so 500mA) but from time to time it just reboots
15:48.21SpeedEvilHave you got a voltmeter? IOW - what's the battery voltage.
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15:49.07MacNorth_codeshepherd: FIC will sell it directly, worldwide
15:49.58koenhrw: my v3 seems pretty stable (no reboots)
15:50.31Elrondhrw - *duck* So your bv3 could take part in SpeedEvil's drop tests.  *run* ;o))
15:51.59hrwroot@neo:~$ cat /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/battvolt
15:51.59hrw3503
15:52.22SpeedEvilShould be OKish.
15:52.26koenroot@fic-gta01:~$ cat /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/battvolt
15:52.27koen4212
15:52.46SpeedEvilI wouldn't expect it to drop out before 3V.
15:52.48Elrond4.2V? Wee. I thought, the batt was spec'd at 3.7V?
15:52.52SpeedEvilno.
15:52.58SpeedEvil3-4.2V
15:53.02SpeedEvil0-100% charge
15:53.45koentemp is '48'
15:54.40prpplagueElrond: the 3.7v for battery spec is a "nominal" voltage
15:55.01Elrondprpplague - Ahh.
15:55.26ElrondHow does one get from the current voltage the charge level?
15:55.35SpeedEvilthe discharge curve
15:55.40SpeedEvilbroadly
15:56.08SpeedEvilit dips sharply to around 4.1 or so, then is flattish to 3.5 or so, then falls quite rapidly.
15:56.27SpeedEvilIIRC 4.1=90%, 3.5=10%
15:56.28SpeedEvilish
15:56.38SpeedEvilit's more or less linear between them.
15:57.23hrwI hope that one day we will get level of chage even during charging
15:57.28ElrondSo hrw's is at 10%? ;)
15:57.28hrwroot@neo:~$ apm
15:57.28hrwOn-line, battery charging
15:57.45hrwroot@c7x0:~# apm
15:57.45hrwOn-line, battery status high: 88%
15:57.48SpeedEvillevel of charge when charging is problematic.
15:57.56koenhrw: annoying
15:58.01TRIsoftgtg cu
15:58.12hrwkoen: my current phone show charge level during charging
15:58.16koenkoen: I guess RP spent more time doing apm emu
15:58.17Elrondgrw - I think, you can query the charging current.
15:58.29koenroot@fic-gta01:/sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008$ cat chgcur
15:58.29koen0
15:58.41SpeedEvilyou need to have a semi-accurate battery model to go from charge voltage - charge state.
15:58.50hrwkoen: thats 0/100/500mA status iirc
15:59.28koenso my battery is being charged with 0 mA :)
15:59.51Elrondhrw - What does it show on your neo?
16:00.02hrwkoen: like everyone ;)
16:00.43koenheh
16:00.43hrwkoen: chgmode is a bit more useful probably
16:00.55koenroot@fic-gta01:/sys/devices/platform/s3c2410-i2c/i2c-0/0-0008$ cat chgmode
16:00.55koenfast_cccv
16:01.13koenso 500mA
16:01.34hrwhmm.. idle here
16:01.52Elrondcccv = constant current, then constant voltage.
16:02.01hrwidle and 3486mV
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16:02.16Elrondhrw - kick it.
16:02.40ElrondIs chgmode writable?
16:02.43hrwecho fast_cccv>chgmode == no change
16:03.06Elrondhmpf.
16:03.15ElrondYou might try u-boot charging.
16:03.24mjrhrw, try echo -n
16:03.35mjrI seem to recall that sysfs was fussy about that
16:03.51hrwmjr: same
16:04.02mjrack, just a thought
16:05.04*** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-220-232.telkomadsl.co.za)
16:05.28hrwnewer uboot released...
16:05.44koenI have the uboot with the 64MB bix
16:05.45koenfix
16:05.57hrwu-boot 1511 starts only when 3.3V is present instead of 2.8V which was before
16:06.10koenu-boot-gta01bv3-r3_0_0_1364.bin
16:06.29hrwu-boot-gta01bv3-r3_0_0_1511.bin
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16:07.49Elrondhrw - u-boot lets you change charging.
16:07.57SpeedEvilcounter
16:07.58alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 19:52:02 (10.828 +-7.0 days) (635)
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16:09.25Elrondhrw - Maybe starting the chargin in u-boot persists into linux. :)
16:09.29hrwflashed
16:09.49ElrondHuh, that was quick.
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16:12.06hrwok, newer uboot on device.
16:12.20aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[Wishlist:Unlikely]] [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]]
16:12.31hrwcu
16:12.50Elrondhrw - Is it now charging from u-boot?
16:12.57ElrondHuh, later then. :)
16:13.44hrw|goneElrond: hard to tell because neo lack any leds
16:13.46hrw|gonebye
16:14.25ElrondThe u-boot serial/usb console has commands to check charger.
16:14.29ElrondBye.
16:14.45koenjust set neo1973 charge fast :)
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16:15.05SpeedEvilJust put jump cables onto it from your car.
16:15.22koen12V ftw!
16:15.30koen(or 48 if you have a fancy car)
16:15.44SpeedEvilI thought it was 36 generally.
16:16.06koenthe battery should do 12V
16:16.12DGMurdockIIIhttp://www.networkuptime.com/tools/voip_clients/
16:16.18*** part/#openmoko DGMurdockIII (i=dgmurdoc@64-184-11-128.bb.hrtc.net)
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16:16.46koenhttp://carman.garage.maemo.org/ <- for car geeks
16:17.19koenDGMurdockIII: http://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/
16:18.21*** part/#openmoko DGMurdockIII (i=dgmurdoc@64-184-11-128.bb.hrtc.net)
16:18.22SpeedEvilThough scottish.
16:19.49koenthe ancient greek were scottish as well
16:19.54aloril#openmoco?  ;-)  http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Talk:Summer_of_code
16:19.58koenaccording to '300'
16:20.19koenopenmoco in combination with biometrics....
16:20.34koen"please sneeze on your phone"
16:20.37SpeedEvilThe intent was clearly to paint them - the greeks - as american.
16:20.57SpeedEvilNeglecting the whole slaveowning and public homosexuality thing.
16:20.58Elrondkoen - *lol*
16:21.47koenthere's a comment on imdb about that
16:21.47SpeedEvilI'm damn surprised they diddn't tuck into some nice apple pie.
16:24.09koen"FILTHY PIERCED ANDROGYNOUS FOREIGN TYPES! YOU FACE THE NOBLE MIGHT OF WESTERN WORLD"
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16:24.49koenthat comment sums up the whole movie
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16:42.45SpeedEvilYou trying to get OM to compile on it?
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16:43.17koenSpeedEvil: no, wanting to use http://carman.garage.maemo.org/ on the neo
16:43.34koenthe carman people were excited about running it on the neo as well
16:43.53SpeedEvilYes - that wasn't _completely_ serious :)
16:44.24SpeedEvilThough port http://megasquirt.info/ to OM - and who knows.
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16:59.58CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1512 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: core support for GTA01Bv4
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17:09.14buzmhh if one would hook a neo to a v12 car with ODB-II that wishlist item might be fulfilled?
17:10.08SpeedEvilAnd, with absolute knowledge of when the ignitions are happening - as you are triggering them, you can do a better job of noise reduction for calls.
17:12.20aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[FAQ]]
17:14.14koen"max 3ft from steering column"
17:14.46SpeedEvilOk...
17:15.06SpeedEvilCan someone check on wish_list:hardware and see if I've deleted any major chunks?
17:16.07SpeedEvilI've deleted much of the explanation as what stuff is - we all know that there are different phone standards and everyone wants the one they live in, discussion of the merits of the phone standards isn't relevant.
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17:32.36CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1513 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-power_control.patch: use sysfs_{create,remove}_group() instead of consecutive sysfs_create_file()
17:32.37neclimdulAre the early April phones only for people in the development group?
17:33.07WiggleCatno, they're all mine
17:33.11koenneclimdul: for anyone with $350
17:33.22mjrneclimdul, targeted for developers, anyone can buy them but they're expected to realize it's not a final consumer product
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17:34.01koeni.e. no ringtones
17:34.14neclimdulbah, who needs ringtones ;)
17:34.18SpeedEvilWell
17:34.27SpeedEvilat the moment it is a _very_ basic phone
17:34.30SpeedEvilonly a phone.
17:34.37SpeedEvilyou can make and recieve calls.
17:34.40SpeedEvilthat's about it.
17:34.57neclimdulI /want/ to play with developing but am certain I don't have time to commit to becoming a "developer"
17:35.01SpeedEviland it's a linux touchscreen PC with some prototype other apps on it.
17:35.06neclimdulhense my question
17:35.10zipolaI've decided to wait till September (and beyond because the counter cheats :P).
17:35.15SpeedEvilWe want anyone to buy it.
17:35.29SpeedEvilwho will enjoy playing with it.
17:35.37SpeedEvileven if you're not a 'proper' developer.
17:36.04SpeedEvilThe software will hopefully rapidly improve even if you don't develop.
17:36.23SpeedEvilUmm.
17:36.23WiggleCat177.683 GBP
17:36.27neclimdulthat'd be me.  I assume there will be an announcement on the announce mailing ilst when the are available?
17:36.38koencounter
17:36.39alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 18:23:21 (10.766 +-7.0 days) (636)
17:36.50SpeedEvilIMO. A proper developer is one that writes code, or at least submits detailed accurate, reproducible bug reports.
17:37.05koenSpeedEvil: I do neither ;)
17:37.11SpeedEvilcode or psuedocode. Even docs
17:37.12CIA-16openmoko: 03laforge * r1514 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-power_control.patch: add GTA01Bv4 support
17:37.14WiggleCatdoes bad code count :P
17:37.30neclimdulthe bullets on that page make it kinda confusing as to the actually time and stuff which is why I came in here.
17:37.33SpeedEvilOr supports others that do.
17:38.01zipolaI think one of the most important part is to have good developer tools and docs for application developers.
17:42.10neclimdulthanks for the answer I was hoping for and I'll be seeing more of you guys ;)
17:42.10WiggleCatanyone know how to get qemu to accept mouse clicks for calibrating the screen?
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17:52.53vmaster19:36 < SpeedEvil> The software will hopefully rapidly improve even if you don't develop. <- heh, i'd like to see _that_ happen
17:53.32koenat least we can build it everytime ARM marketing invents a new ABI
17:53.38koens/build/rebuild/
17:54.10vmasterhehehe
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17:58.17promWiggleCat: i havent tried but think i know a way.
17:59.02promWiggleCat: ill try building a kernel with support for the qemu tablet device (-usbdevice tablet). this should work, i think.
18:00.18promWiggleCat: but you will definitely have to rebuild your kernel because the default config does not include touchscreen support.
18:00.44promWiggleCat: alternatively, you could disable the touchscreen support and thus the calibration. i didnt try to figure out how.
18:05.01promWiggleCat: i stopped experimenting with qemu. mostly because i didnt find an easy way for changing the resolution/orientation of the display.
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18:12.20aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
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18:39.28KousuHas the input widget been written yet at all, or is it still in mockup?
18:39.28alorilKousu: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
18:39.50Gatillo95alguien habla castellano??
18:39.50alorilGatillo95: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
18:40.17Gatillo95i wish download openmoko!
18:41.41Kousuhttp://svn.openmoko.org/
18:41.45promGatillo95: you need someone fluent in english and catalan then. but be warned that there is not much interesting stuff to be just downloaded and looked at.
18:41.49KousuThere's no official release yet, as far as I can see.
18:42.36KousuBut as for my question: I want to do HexInput for OpenMoko for SoC.
18:42.56KousuHexInput is simply a great idea, and it must be done somewhere to lead the charge.
18:43.18promKousu: i know there is a themed onscreen keyboard. i dont know if its extensible yet.
18:44.57KousuHmm. Is it the program in http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/tests/openmoko-keypad/src/ ?
18:45.31Gatillo95openmoko works in NOKIA phone?
18:45.44Gatillo95Nokia 5200
18:47.48KousuGatillo95: no. OpenMoko is linux. The Nokia5200 looks like just another cameraphone with a proprietary OS.
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18:48.54Gatillo95nokia=hardware openmoko=software?
18:49.14KousuYes. And the Nokia phone is not hardware that OpenMoko can run on.
18:49.33promKousu: seems so. it definitely was some variation of matchbox-keyboard.
18:50.00Kousuprom: thanks.
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18:51.04Gatillo95mmm, openmoko works only in Neo1973???
18:51.09promGatillo95: no nokia phones. only the neo1973 for now. you should definitely take a look at the FAQ.
18:51.32Gatillo95yes yes, mi english is too bad
18:51.38Gatillo95im from argentina
18:51.55Gatillo95chating is too easy
18:52.05Gatillo95reading FAQ is hard
18:53.00Gatillo95thanks!
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18:55.46buzprom: thats not strictly true
18:55.55buzopenmoko has been running on htc universal for a while
18:56.21buzbut the gist of it is correct, of course
18:58.04prombuz: true. it could also run on quite a few nokia phones without too much work. but it probably wont do so stably any time soon.
18:58.24buzit might also not be very useful on nokia phones just now
18:58.28buzwithout TS
18:59.44promyepp.
18:59.57goxboxliveare there any openmoko guidelines how to deal with auto-rotation ?
19:00.28goxboxlivei am talking about the screen
19:00.41MacNorth_is there even an accelerometer?
19:00.48MacNorth_i thought that was on the hw wishlist
19:01.39goxboxliveok, i c, thx
19:03.40buzwithout accelerometer autorotation is kinda hard
19:03.52buztho i suppose one could trigger it when switching to some apps
19:04.00buz(webbrowser springs to mind)
19:04.49promor with one of those mercury tilt sensors attached to a GPIO pin ;)
19:05.10buznot sure if that would pass RoHS
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19:05.45prombuz: hey... the device is meant to be hackable... ;)
19:05.54buzsoftware hackable
19:06.27rohnot only.. remember.. der is a jtag and gpios as well as usb reachable and solderable
19:06.39rohs/der/there
19:07.25SpeedEvilUSB isn't really easily reachable.
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19:07.46SpeedEvilJTAG/SPI - yes.
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19:12.20aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Unlikely]]
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19:17.43antenagoracounter
19:17.43alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 16:42:16 (10.696 +-7.0 days) (637)
19:31.40cw666counter
19:31.40alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 16:28:19 (10.686 +-7.0 days) (638)
19:32.21MacNorth_counter--
19:32.31cw666en counter
19:32.41cw666COUNTER
19:33.01rohSpeedEvil yep, eventually the internal usb-host which the bt is attached to could be made reachable via pads.. but only in much later revisions
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19:34.39SpeedEvilI had commented earlier that it'd have been nice to have brought interesting stuff out to a connector next to the battery.
19:34.51SpeedEvil(USB, SPI, VCC, VDD)
19:35.17SpeedEvilso that a nicer connector can be glued onto the back, for extensions.
19:35.35rohwe'll see. that can only happen in connection to other design changes since it would require a change of tooling to the case
19:35.40SpeedEvilyeah.
19:35.49rohsame for the pcb.
19:35.54SpeedEvilIt's a little bit of case, but it is tooling of course.
19:36.08SpeedEvilAnd of course there is BOM for another connector.
19:36.37SpeedEvilThis would be mainly for the [[expansion back]] stuff.
19:36.47rohthat the least i care atm ;) first we need bug-free hardware before we open new wannahave and feature-enhancements
19:36.58SpeedEvilOh - I aree.
19:37.31rohi still have a gta01bv2 here.. and hey.. does some funny things from time to time
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19:37.41don-ocounter
19:37.41alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 16:22:18 (10.682 +-7.0 days) (639)
19:38.00SpeedEvilV4 still on schedule?
19:38.10SpeedEvilAnd any news on preorders?
19:38.22rohdunno.. but i#'ll ask harald when he is done handling his jetlag ;)
19:38.24SpeedEvilOr are you not that side.
19:38.54rohi am, but i don't know everything (yet) and especially not business-stuff
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19:39.15roh;)
19:39.21SpeedEvilI don't think I've got many remaining hardware questions - other than stuff that nobody here knows. For example, how to kick off hte GPS.
19:39.41rohSpeedEvil kick off? you mean power on and so?
19:39.52SpeedEvilPower on, and get it saying something.
19:39.58SpeedEvilPower on is - apparently - simple.
19:40.05rohyep
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19:40.54SpeedEvilWhether there is a simple two or three byte init that needs thrown at it to get it to dump state is another question, or if it's a complex protocol.
19:41.42rohthen you'll need a libary/plugin/thingie in userspace which communicates with the gps-softmodem via /dev/ttySAC1 and brings it up to put demodulated stuff
19:41.50SpeedEvilNot really.
19:42.01SpeedEvilI - and others - want to take the raw position information and cook it.
19:42.09rohi know
19:42.13SpeedEvilin an opensource clone of the binary bit.
19:42.34rohbut for that we fist need the binary bit working to take a look how it is supposed to work
19:42.36SpeedEvilWorst case, strace of the binary works.
19:42.52SpeedEvilOr datasheets - which probably don't exist outside of GL.
19:43.14rohyou have the serial-driver AND its in userspace ;) so tracing/logging is real easy
19:43.28SpeedEvilIndeed. On another topic:
19:43.28rohthe datasheets will only help you a bit
19:43.54SpeedEvilIs the bluetooth module basically just USB with 3.3V?
19:44.00rohafaik yes
19:44.16rohits a small package which is mounted as bga
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19:44.32rohpulling bga'? heh... have fun
19:44.41SpeedEvilIt's not the whole rectangular board?
19:45.05SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_bottom.jpg
19:45.09SpeedEvilat the top of there?
19:45.17rohthere seems to be a module which is similar in size and adds wlan to the bt.. but there is still discussion about the driver-issue
19:45.28koenSpeedEvil: Is there any info in the wiki on how to power up the gps and set correct linespeeds?
19:45.38SpeedEvilyeah - sounds unlikely for V4 though.
19:45.40koenI know there was a magic sequence, but I couldn't find it
19:45.45SpeedEvilkoen: I don't think so.
19:45.49koen(media wiki search sucks donkey ass)
19:45.53SpeedEvilAnnoyingly, I lost my IRC logs for that time.
19:45.56SpeedEvilFrom memory
19:46.00SpeedEvilturn the GPS on.
19:46.15SpeedEvilthen send it lots of 0x80s to train the UART
19:46.16buzroh: module like from whom?
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19:46.44SpeedEvilthen cat /dev/urandom >/dev/tty should do something :)
19:46.45rohSpeedEvil eh. seems so.. as is said.. mine is a -2 and thus looks a bit different
19:46.46SpeedEvilhowever.
19:46.52SpeedEvilit doesn't actually seem to work.
19:46.54*** join/#openmoko Mark_F (n=squee@ip72-208-132-56.ph.ph.cox.net)
19:47.06SpeedEvilOr at least, not show anything.
19:47.21Mark_FDoes anyone know the range of the bluetooth in the neo phones?
19:47.21alorilMark_F: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
19:47.28rohbuz i though delta.. but i'm not shure. i haven't had time to speak with harald since his return
19:47.42rohMark_F normal bt-range.. 10-30 metres max
19:47.48Mark_Fok thanks
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19:49.48SpeedEvilI dunno - I have no logs - my ISP ate them.
19:50.02koenwhat's the besr way to send a lot of 0x80 to the serial port?
19:50.04SpeedEvilsearch for 0x80 in the logs I'd imagine
19:50.05SpeedEvilcat?
19:50.25SpeedEvilit's got to be a moderately high baudrate, say 38400
19:50.46SpeedEvilI don't remember how you turn hardware flowcontrol off with stty
19:50.50SpeedEvilor use mincom
19:50.53SpeedEvilminicom
19:50.59noiddAWAYkoen yes 0x80 >/dev/ttyS0
19:51.13noiddAWAYwell, not 0x80 but the keybinding for it
19:51.19SpeedEvilit's got to be a lot of themone probably won't do it.
19:51.34SpeedEviland all together, not spaced out I'd imagine.
19:52.04noiddAWAYstty -crtscts
19:52.15SpeedEvilThat sounds familiar.
19:52.58SpeedEvilroh: Any news on battery life in various states for V4 hardware?
19:53.33rohunknown
19:54.27rohas i said i only have a v2 here and that one cannot even disable the 2 plls which eat 15mA each.. so any prediction of battery-life would be fundamentally flawed
19:54.46SygHas any more information come out about the proposed discount for people who bought phase 1 devices when buying phase 2+ devices?
19:55.26rohyou guys are too much panicing about dates
19:55.31SygI'm not worried about dates, I'm just curious about the discount. :)
19:55.58SpeedEvilThe 2*15mA seems a bit optimistic as an error, given that a device lasts 5.5 hours idle with display on. Unless the backlight draws significantly more than I was assuming.
19:56.17koenif anyone needs some gps tests run, mail them to the openmoko-devel list
19:56.20SpeedEvilOr the power supply is horribly inefficient.
19:56.23rohbacklight is one of the major energy eaters on mobile devices
19:56.48roheven on a notebook it can take up to 10-15% of the total
19:56.48SpeedEvilI guessed around 150mW
19:56.59SpeedEvilwhich is about equal to the CPU on idle.
19:57.09SpeedEvilon published idle.
19:58.06WiggleCat2arrrrghhh!!
19:58.10SpeedEvilOh - another possible question. Can the LCM do anything interesting over SPI - for example, draw stuff on the display, for use dimmed as a clock, as the controller can't work at low speed.
19:58.26WiggleCat2can anyone tell me how big the build environment is?
19:58.26alorilWiggleCat2: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
19:58.33SpeedEvil9G or so.
19:58.37WiggleCat2bugger
19:58.38SpeedEvilwhen all built out.
19:58.50SpeedEvilIIRC, I haven't personally done that yet.
19:58.51rohWiggleCat2 keep 10gig free when you invoke mokomakefile
19:59.15rohon ext3.. can take more on reiser as i've heard
19:59.15WiggleCat2I don;t have 10gb free :(
19:59.30WiggleCat2might have to delete some pr0n
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20:00.07rohSpeedEvil you mean the display?
20:00.18SpeedEvilThe display, yes.
20:01.23koenINHERIT += "rm_work"
20:01.23robtaylorCoreDump|home: there?
20:03.42rohSpeedEvil afaik not. its directly connected to the samsung arm afaik
20:03.54rohi don't have the schems here atm
20:06.09SpeedEvilIt's also connected to SPI - apparently.
20:06.15SpeedEvilSome displays can do both.
20:06.30SpeedEvilSPI is used - for example to turn it to QVGA mode.
20:06.33SpeedEvilAIUI.
20:07.24rohyou can switch modes and stuff like contrast over that i assume. but drawing is only been done from the cpu over the parallel bus
20:08.16SpeedEvilI know - at the moment. I'm just wondering if it's possible, or if the display doesn't support it. It'd be nice - otherwise in 'slow' mode, it goes off.
20:08.51rohfor what?
20:09.09SpeedEvilFor - for example, a clock on the display, at half brightness.
20:09.21rohto display a clock you still would need the cpu and thus could use the parallel connection
20:09.32SpeedEvilNot between updates.
20:09.37rohyou can send it to sleep, of course
20:09.42SpeedEvilOr the CPU can be in slow mode.
20:09.55SpeedEvilslow mode does not support the display controller.
20:09.55rohbut you still need it the same often as to fire on the display via spi
20:10.09rohdoes not spare any power thus, even if it would be possible
20:10.22SpeedEvilIf the display can use its own refresh, then you can leave the CPU in slow mode.
20:10.44SpeedEvilIf the display cannot, then you need to have the CPU running whenever you have anything at all on the display.
20:11.19SpeedEvilIf the display can draw using SPI - as some can - then you can do minimal updating while in slow mode, without even having to wake it up.
20:11.46rohthats right. but ido not think we spare power that way
20:11.57SpeedEvilYou do.
20:12.17SpeedEvilslow mode is 50mW according to the datasheets. half backlight is about 100mW
20:12.20rohtft draws power not only via the bg but also a lot via the matrix of transistors
20:12.40rohthats still too much for a decent stdby
20:12.51SpeedEvilThis would not be a decent standby.
20:13.14SpeedEvilIt would be a low power display mode, that you certainly wouldn't want on all the time.
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20:16.12rohSpeedEvil we will see whats possible
20:16.23SpeedEvilYeah. :)
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20:26.42alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 15:33:17 (10.648 +-7.0 days) (640)
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20:43.37MacNorth_a near miss for the core team :) http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4096586
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20:46.21prpplaguemmm, tasty
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21:10.16WiggleCat2cups! wtf ...
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21:20.31rohWiggleCat2 thats what i though... i still need to look where that dependency comes from
21:27.33promWiggleCat: did you notice koens comment on how to save space? he didnt explain it...
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21:29.39WiggleCat2no.. I missed it prom
21:30.43promWiggleCat: you can add the line  'INHERIT += "rm_work"' to your local.conf. if you do, bitbake will delete the build directory after packaging.
21:31.13prom(for every package, so it saves space)
21:31.38WiggleCat2ooooh  - that sounds like a good idea :)
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21:33.06WiggleCat2thanks for that prom :D
21:33.14promWiggleCat: and since youve been talking about qemu earlier: consider using xnest/xoo and building for x86.
21:34.39WiggleCat2ahh ok, I have qemu running but can't get past the calibration screen  - hehehehe
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21:35.21WiggleCat2I'll take a look at those...
21:35.43promWiggleCat: yes, i suggested a solution to that earlier. you seem to have missed it.
21:36.16WiggleCat2ahh that'll be on WiggleCat's screen :)
21:36.44promyepp.
21:36.44WiggleCat2I must have missed it - but you're here still - so that helps :)
21:38.06promWiggleCat: the default qemu kernel has no touchscreen support, so youll have to add that. then you have to add the driver for the tablet device that qemu can emulate (also kernel config, IIRC). finally, run qemu with "-usbdevice tablet".
21:39.22promi didnt try that because i couldnt find a quick way to change the resolution of the display. and because there is xnest.
21:39.47prombut itd probably work.
21:39.59WiggleCat2:O ahh that might explain things :)
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22:13.20aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]]
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22:38.55rohah.. i found out why it wants cups ... bt-cups printing over bluetooth
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22:47.04WiggleCat2you know,  I thought that roh - but I was too frighted to say it out loud ;)
22:48.50WiggleCat2you although, I'm not sure what you'd print from a phone :)
22:48.57WiggleCat2s/you//
22:53.23summatusmentisWiggleCat: pictures
22:54.46WiggleCat2from where? No camera.
22:54.47SpeedEvilfaxes
22:55.08SpeedEvilYour photo album
22:55.20WiggleCat2faxes is good.. although an email would be better
22:55.25SpeedEvilmaps.
22:55.43SpeedEvilstuff you might want to give people that don't have computers.
22:55.53WiggleCat2...
22:56.01WiggleCat2there are people without computers?
22:56.03balrog-kunposters, stickers, cd covers
22:57.39balrog-kunwhile we're there a built-in cd/dvd burner would be good
22:58.05SpeedEvilHey - leverage sonys investment.
22:58.11SpeedEvilUMD-RW, you know it makes sense.
22:58.20WiggleCat2I'd settle for a log burner balrog-kun
22:59.02WiggleCat2rm_work is doing the trick, I now have more disk space than when I started..
22:59.42balrog-kunwhat's a log burner?
22:59.42WiggleCat2enrico?
23:00.03WiggleCat2a thing you burn logs on, to hide evidence
23:00.11balrog-kunah okay :)
23:01.24CoreDump|homeay
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23:13.20aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]]
23:13.30CoreDump|home!ombug 111
23:13.31cdbot2* * Bug 111, Status: NEW, Created: Unknown
23:13.32cdbot2* * laforge(AT)openmoko.org: integrate agpsd in our system power management.
23:13.33cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=111
23:15.26CoreDump|home!ombug 212
23:15.26cdbot2* * Bug 212, Status: ASSIGNED, Created: Unknown
23:15.27cdbot2* * mickey(AT)vanille-media.de: Charging seems completely broken
23:15.28cdbot2* * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212
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