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| 02:27.13 | RichK | maaaan i want this phone =) |
| 02:27.52 | RichK | put pebble on the platform =P |
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| 03:02.57 | thomasg_ | coutner |
| 03:03.01 | thomasg_ | counter |
| 03:03.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 08:56:58 (10.373 +-7.0 days) (610) |
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| 03:45.30 | aloril | hmm... http://www.hrw.one.pl/2007/03/23/neo1973-and-wifi/ |
| 03:45.40 | aloril | and http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/03/24/things-falling-into-place-for-p1/ |
| 03:47.30 | aloril | 2 weeks yesterday..., thats 4 days forward compared to current counter, hmm.. uncertainty though already includes that |
| 03:54.12 | aloril | is this correct? (articles, asking to avoid grammar edits in wiki): "This would be end of the first week of April." |
| 03:55.04 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Mickey]] |
| 03:57.31 | dotmef | counter |
| 03:57.31 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 3 days 08:02:28 (10.335 +-7.0 days) (611) |
| 03:57.40 | dotmef | cool |
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| 04:06.19 | aloril | counter |
| 04:06.19 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 07:53:40 (13.329 +-7.0 days) (612) |
| 04:06.56 | aloril | +3 days (early week -> near end of week) |
| 04:09.37 | dotmef | meh - I'm not fussed |
| 04:10.10 | dotmef | it'll probably take ages to come out to Sydney anyhoo :) |
| 04:10.18 | aloril | well.. I should probably have that change some time ago ;-) |
| 04:10.52 | aloril | first week == middle of week, not start of week ;-) |
| 04:12.07 | dotmef | I'm happy that it's soon |
| 04:12.24 | dotmef | not some kind of Duke Nuke 'em deadline |
| 04:12.43 | dotmef | and my first environment make hasn't even finished yet |
| 04:12.55 | dotmef | might be complete by the time I get the handset :D |
| 04:14.48 | dotmef | I should check on the Sydney LUG mailing list if anyone else is planning on getting a P1 |
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| 04:16.01 | aloril | hardware being OK and ready sounds promising and software almost there too |
| 04:17.15 | aloril | sounds like it could even arrive if you include uncertainty too ;-) |
| 04:20.11 | dotmef | :D |
| 04:22.10 | aloril | P0 devices arrived in about 2 days |
| 04:23.04 | dotmef | within Europe? |
| 04:23.26 | dotmef | I guess Sydney won't be a problem |
| 04:23.58 | dotmef | if the phones are coming from Taiwan, then there should be no hassle getting them here |
| 04:24.25 | dotmef | soooo much stuff comes from Taiwan to here, I believe |
| 04:24.38 | aloril | from Taiwan to Europe |
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| 04:24.56 | aloril | it was 2 or 3 days to Australia |
| 04:25.19 | dotmef | oh? who's in Oz? |
| 04:26.56 | aloril | they should be shipped from EU too, dunno if that means at same time as from Taiwan or a bit later |
| 04:29.30 | dotmef | fair enough. doesn't sound like there'll be much delay for most folk then. |
| 04:29.52 | dotmef | that's nice to know that rwhitby is in Oz |
| 04:30.07 | dotmef | I thought the majority of people were in Europe |
| 04:30.27 | ozamosi | dotmef: nice, so you can pay him a visit when you break your phone? :) |
| 04:31.18 | dotmef | osamosi: screw that! I'll just steal his! ;) |
| 04:31.33 | ozamosi | Right... |
| 04:32.17 | dotmef | one of the reasons that it's good to know about people in Oz is that they're in the same time zone |
| 04:35.06 | rwhitby | morning |
| 04:35.36 | aloril | morning |
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| 04:35.54 | dotmef | g'day |
| 04:35.55 | rwhitby | dotmef: 2 days DHL from Taiwan to Adelaide |
| 04:36.17 | dotmef | sweet. |
| 04:36.17 | rwhitby | TWN->HKG->SIN->ADL |
| 04:37.24 | dotmef | and I guess I can track via DHL in case anything goes funny en-route |
| 04:37.41 | dotmef | seeing as you've had no trouble, I can't think I would have any |
| 04:38.09 | rwhitby | yeah, it was marked "Engineering Sample" and it's less than AUD$1K anyway, so no duty payable. |
| 04:38.25 | dotmef | right |
| 04:40.45 | dotmef | I guess the P1 phones are still development class items, so they may still be marked as samples too |
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| 04:52.09 | dotmef | rwhitby: ta for the info on delivery. |
| 04:52.19 | dotmef | time for me to go vote. |
| 04:52.27 | dotmef | cheers all |
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| 04:54.35 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973]] |
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| 05:54.36 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
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| 07:49.29 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 08:21.11 | superman_scott | wow real quite for a irc room of 221 users |
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| 09:37.38 | Elrond | counter |
| 09:37.39 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 02:22:21 (13.099 +-7.0 days) (613) |
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| 09:52.22 | ewanm89 | you know -7 days ago it wasn't released |
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| 10:07.09 | SpeedEvil | +-7 days is the uncertainty |
| 10:08.00 | ewanm89 | Yeah but -7 uncertanty didn't happen! |
| 10:08.14 | mjr | umm |
| 10:08.16 | zod | http://www.vanille-media.de/site/index.php/2007/03/24/things-falling-into-place-for-p1/ |
| 10:08.23 | zod | entry from today says two weeks |
| 10:08.27 | mjr | look again at the where the uncertainty is centered |
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| 10:10.28 | ewanm89 | I'm just saying that now we ae looking more at +7 -5 uncertainty |
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| 10:11.08 | Mandarino | Hi ppl |
| 10:11.10 | Mandarino | counter |
| 10:11.10 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 01:48:49 (13.076 +-7.0 days) (614) |
| 10:11.27 | SpeedEvil | I really think arguments over 2 days are kind of pointless. |
| 10:12.04 | Stephmw | but people soooooo enjoy them! |
| 10:12.23 | koen | arguments? where? |
| 10:14.15 | ewanm89 | The script could have been coded the script to adjust the figure. |
| 10:14.57 | SpeedEvil | A week, 6 days = 13 days |
| 10:14.59 | ewanm89 | s/ the script // |
| 10:15.19 | ewanm89 | Thanks apt |
| 10:15.37 | Stephmw | ~botsnack |
| 10:15.37 | apt | Stephmw: aw, gee |
| 10:16.28 | ewanm89 | You would need two figures a minimum bound and a maximum bound. |
| 10:17.05 | SpeedEvil | which can also be expressed as a target + uncertainty - as it does. |
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| 10:49.21 | koen | " Many more things *cant* be done with SVG that can be done with flash. actionscript, video, audio [..]" |
| 10:49.44 | koen | svg supports scripting via javascript and embedding of objects |
| 10:50.37 | ewanm89 | svg is xml based! |
| 10:50.55 | koen | correct |
| 10:51.22 | ewanm89 | I always use svg where I can. |
| 10:51.28 | abraxa_ | Personally I think the audiences are too different to try comparing those two anyway |
| 10:51.59 | ewanm89 | Agreen, svg is for scalable graphics like logos! |
| 10:52.13 | koen | not really |
| 10:52.28 | ewanm89 | s/Agreen/Agreed/ |
| 10:52.46 | abraxa_ | I more meant that lots of artsy people who do Flash would be overwhelmed by having to do their effects using JavaScript |
| 10:53.00 | koen | ITC demo-ed a vector map browser that was svg with embedded scripting |
| 10:53.20 | koen | abraxa_: that's why GUI's and IDE's exist |
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| 10:55.40 | abraxa_ | There's an IDE that lets you create Flash-like embedded SVGs? |
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| 10:56.15 | PBeck | tag |
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| 10:56.29 | koen | abraxa_: sort of, the big GIS apps allow export to svg (or svgtiny) |
| 10:56.35 | abraxa_ | Heya PBeck |
| 10:57.19 | abraxa_ | Hm... not quite what I had in mind but ok :) |
| 11:01.11 | Mandarino | Somebody knows dedicated server? |
| 11:01.38 | Mandarino | a good dedicated server |
| 11:01.42 | Mandarino | fucking keyword |
| 11:02.02 | buz | depends on the country |
| 11:03.00 | Mandarino | it doesn't matter |
| 11:03.09 | buz | germany: hetzner.de |
| 11:03.18 | Mandarino | danke :) |
| 11:03.20 | buz | switzerland: nine.ch (disclaimer: i occasionaly work for them) |
| 11:03.50 | cedric | french low cost: http://www.dedibox.fr/ |
| 11:04.44 | Mandarino | I got a good feeling with french people :P |
| 11:04.56 | Mandarino | thanks buz & cedric :) |
| 11:05.16 | buz | i can vouch for both |
| 11:05.36 | buz | besides, iirc openmoko is hosted at hetzner ;) |
| 11:05.52 | loufoque | Mandarino: french people are annoying |
| 11:06.04 | cedric | loufoque: thanks :) |
| 11:06.05 | loufoque | I know that well, since I'm French myself. |
| 11:06.12 | Mandarino | My last girlfriend was french :P I know :P |
| 11:06.46 | Mandarino | buz I'm looking for a dedicated server for openmoko.es :) |
| 11:06.50 | ewanm89 | count |
| 11:06.57 | ewanm89 | counter |
| 11:06.57 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 00:53:02 (13.037 +-7.0 days) (615) |
| 11:07.06 | buz | Mandarino: hetzner should be fast all over europe |
| 11:07.20 | buz | and 50? for a machine with RAID1 is a very good deal |
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| 11:07.35 | loufoque | koen: according to my tests, flash is more efficient than svg. |
| 11:08.00 | loufoque | that may be more a quality of implementation issue though |
| 11:08.06 | buz | yeah, 3d stuff with canvas is unbearably slow |
| 11:08.31 | loufoque | I didn't even try 3D, I'm talking about 2D |
| 11:10.50 | buz | i hope specs for 1.5 will be out at the time we can order P1 devices |
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| 11:21.13 | SpeedEvil | It's been stated that they will. |
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| 11:32.54 | philippe | grrr.. Anybody here who has successfully build and flashed a rootfs on the Neo? |
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| 12:17.05 | LarstiQ | mickey|zzZZzz: thanks for that blog post |
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| 12:29.10 | *** join/#openmoko wzkfmmly (n=Morten@ti500720a080-6120.bb.online.no) |
| 12:30.25 | wzkfmmly | Hi |
| 12:32.31 | wzkfmmly | Anyone here got any info on thw hardware revision between phase1 and two? I'd like to see wifi, it'd make the phone so much more versatile. |
| 12:32.31 | aloril | wzkfmmly: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 12:35.29 | mjr | there's no info yet if wifi is feasible in that timeframe |
| 12:36.54 | wzkfmmly | Hmm.. you see, the thing that sparked my hopes for wifi was this blog post: http://www.hrw.one.pl/2007/03/23/neo1973-and-wifi/ |
| 12:38.37 | mjr | yesyes, they're trying |
| 12:39.05 | PBeck | more flash, faster cpu and wifi would be great :D |
| 12:39.34 | PBeck | with this specs the neo would be a sucess i think :) |
| 12:39.37 | wzkfmmly | Yeah, but it's all uncertain, and we'll never get everything at the same time. |
| 12:40.24 | wzkfmmly | But, i've been thinkning, it we don't get embedded wifi, there's still ways to implement it |
| 12:41.31 | wzkfmmly | Even thoug the usb is unpowered, you could use a usb powerinjector, and a usb laptop wifi adapter |
| 12:41.39 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.99.50) |
| 12:41.56 | PBeck | thats not very mobil ... |
| 12:42.08 | wzkfmmly | Naa, but it's somthing |
| 12:42.10 | PBeck | i think wifi would have the first priority |
| 12:42.34 | PBeck | than can comes a faster cpu and a bigger flash ram |
| 12:42.59 | *** join/#openmoko _MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 12:43.28 | PBeck | wzkfmmly: i hope they will find a company :) |
| 12:44.05 | buz | the faster cpu is already for sure IIRC |
| 12:44.26 | wzkfmmly | I agree. There is also the segate D.A.V.E mobile phone hdd. It has wifi and bluetooth, and a open source linux kernel (I think) So if som clever guys could route tha wifi from the dave to bluetooth and then over to the neo, it's a possebility |
| 12:44.26 | mjr | yes, that's what they say |
| 12:45.07 | PBeck | buz: thats still better :) |
| 12:45.25 | wzkfmmly | As abnother benefit you'd get 20gig more hd space =) |
| 12:48.51 | wzkfmmly | Here's a little post about it, it hasn't released yet though =/ http://www.wirelessly.org/entry/segate-launches-dave-technology-for-mobile-phones/ |
| 12:49.40 | buz | i just hope we will know details about P2 when P1 starts |
| 12:50.27 | buz | i somehow dont see the case for dave though, not in the days of 8Gb sd cards |
| 12:50.45 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k334.webspeed.dk) |
| 12:51.28 | wzkfmmly | I thought the neo only supported 2gig sd? |
| 12:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@70-41-160-127.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 12:52.38 | mjr | it's been a bit unclear to me. At this point apparently 2 gigs at least, but the final word, AFAIK, on if larger ones are just a software update away, hasn't arrived |
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| 12:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 12:53.41 | buz | mjr: thats what i understand, too |
| 12:54.03 | buz | supposedly, nobody is able to track down 4gb microsd |
| 12:54.26 | wzkfmmly | Would be great to get that clarifyed, if we can use 8gig cards, I don't se storage as a problem. It's been said that there will be 32gig sd cards at the end of the year. That will clearly be enough |
| 12:54.39 | buz | wzkfmmly: we can only use microsd |
| 12:54.55 | wzkfmmly | Oh, my bad |
| 12:55.11 | buz | but sandisk has the 4G microsd announcced |
| 12:56.10 | buz | 2GB is now about 20EUR |
| 12:56.14 | wzkfmmly | OOT: what's the change nick command, never used IRC before :S |
| 12:56.24 | buz | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:57.11 | *** join/#openmoko Zenton (n=Zenton__@8.Red-80-34-35.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 12:57.40 | wzkfmmly | 4 gig micro sd: http://prisguide.hardware.no/product.php?productId=52052 (norwegian) price under about 90$ |
| 12:58.17 | wzkfmmly | Thanks |
| 13:01.11 | buz | can you actually order those from stock? |
| 13:01.20 | buz | i cant find any 4G ones in switzerland |
| 13:01.30 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 13:02.42 | MortenLysgaard | Thos "Kjøp" (means "Buy") buttons are links to norwegian webshops who sell them, and have them on stock |
| 13:03.45 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB08D93.ipt.aol.com) |
| 13:04.06 | MortenLysgaard | So there are atleast 8 weboshops in norway who have them, sounds to strange that you don't have any in switserland? |
| 13:04.07 | aloril | MortenLysgaard: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:05.19 | buz | yeah its weird |
| 13:05.29 | buz | then again i wont buy it for over 50$ anyway |
| 13:06.11 | MortenLysgaard | No, but still, you should have them in switserland? |
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| 13:11.43 | MortenLysgaard | Question: 2gig cards are so much less expensive, can i hotswap cards on the neo, so i could have on with music and one with eg. programs. Then just change them when i wanted to do something different? |
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| 13:21.42 | parag0n | MortenLysgaard, those are minisd, not microsd |
| 13:21.47 | parag0n | they wont fit |
| 13:22.07 | MortenLysgaard | Aww.. =S |
| 13:22.33 | vmaster | iirc you wont be able to hot-swap, as the slot is behind the battery |
| 13:23.38 | MortenLysgaard | Hmm.. =/ what to do |
| 13:24.09 | summatusmentis | I'd get a bigger card |
| 13:24.34 | vmaster | there'll certainly be larger cards available by the time the neo1973 hits the mass market |
| 13:24.35 | MortenLysgaard | But they don't exist |
| 13:25.12 | MortenLysgaard | True, but right now, the limit is 2gig |
| 13:25.16 | summatusmentis | oh really? I'm not all that up on microsd cards, or even minisd cards for that matter |
| 13:26.42 | buz | 4gb microsd will be available in sept for sure |
| 13:26.45 | buz | maybe even 8gb |
| 13:27.08 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@212.41.157.237) |
| 13:27.12 | buz | microsd cards are pain to handle though |
| 13:27.27 | MortenLysgaard | Btw. Will the cpu be fast enough to handle video? the screen is so bright and has so high res. that it may actually be watchable? |
| 13:28.00 | buz | the current cpu no |
| 13:28.04 | buz | new one maybe |
| 13:28.43 | mjr | there's been speculation on the subject |
| 13:28.53 | MortenLysgaard | Would be a shame to waste such a good screen! |
| 13:29.29 | buz | can anyone comment as to readability of the screen in bright sunlight? |
| 13:29.36 | *** join/#openmoko `k (n=k@lambda.cultofray.net) |
| 13:29.48 | koen | send me bright sunlight |
| 13:30.02 | buz | i thought you had been in brazil |
| 13:30.02 | MortenLysgaard | =D |
| 13:30.03 | parag0n | wont the 4db and 8gb be microsdhc? |
| 13:30.12 | buz | parag0n: yes they will |
| 13:30.25 | parag0n | does the miki support that? |
| 13:30.28 | parag0n | *moko |
| 13:30.31 | MortenLysgaard | ko |
| 13:30.33 | parag0n | i thought not |
| 13:30.41 | mjr | "it's been a bit unclear to me. At this point apparently 2 gigs at least, but the final word, AFAIK, on if larger ones are just a software update away, hasn't arrived" |
| 13:30.43 | MortenLysgaard | Koen: do you have the phase0 phone? |
| 13:30.52 | koen | yes |
| 13:32.02 | MortenLysgaard | How cool, I'm just a 17 years old student who discovered this project som months ago, You're doing a great job! I'm soo going to buy the phase1 phone |
| 13:33.00 | parag0n | according to the wiki, mickeyl should be getting the first batch of phase 1 phones today |
| 13:33.31 | buz | for testing or for selling |
| 13:33.34 | MortenLysgaard | Serious? Have i missed somtihing? |
| 13:33.58 | Stephmw | I'd rather he used them for testing :D |
| 13:33.59 | parag0n | for testing |
| 13:34.14 | parag0n | then hase 1 *should* start in 2 weeks |
| 13:34.24 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 13:34.36 | SpeedEvil | Is this the first of ongoing production. |
| 13:34.45 | koen | if they go *poof* on boot..... |
| 13:34.52 | SpeedEvil | or is it another test batch, and another one will be along if this one is OK in several months. |
| 13:34.53 | MortenLysgaard | Hehe :P |
| 13:34.57 | SpeedEvil | s/months/weeks/ |
| 13:35.25 | koen | I suspect they have a pretty quick turnaround for p1 phones |
| 13:35.53 | buz | at most 6weeks |
| 13:36.02 | buz | (lead time for lcd according to sean) |
| 13:36.42 | SpeedEvil | yeah - but that doesn't hold it up if you have committed to make the phones. |
| 13:36.54 | SpeedEvil | you can leave the LCDs on the sheld |
| 13:37.58 | MortenLysgaard | Anyone of you know how the market is for the neo? I'm willing to buy one whatsoever, but how is it with the rest of the world. Poeple who don't program, or have linux, Is the interest big? |
| 13:38.06 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 13:38.09 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, no. |
| 13:38.15 | SpeedEvil | because it's almost useless. |
| 13:38.25 | SpeedEvil | it's a basic - probably a bit buggy - touchscreen phone. |
| 13:38.42 | koen | multiple usb gadget on one interface: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-usb-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg51998.html |
| 13:38.53 | buz | with a gps that doesnt have drivers and insane screen resolutio |
| 13:38.54 | buz | n |
| 13:39.00 | SpeedEvil | The time to start thinking about how large the market is, is probably a month or two before september. |
| 13:39.23 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, it's a very small touchscreen PC, with some prototype phone apps of marginal functionality. |
| 13:40.18 | MortenLysgaard | Ok, I'm hoping noe will be a hit. So that those big bad phone companies get a wakeupcall. They've been standing still for years. |
| 13:40.24 | SpeedEvil | Hopefully, come Indeed. |
| 13:40.30 | SpeedEvil | Indeed rather. |
| 13:41.02 | SpeedEvil | The hardware hasn't - which is the shame. |
| 13:41.18 | SpeedEvil | There are some _really_ cool phones out there. |
| 13:41.23 | SpeedEvil | That are totally locked down. |
| 13:41.37 | koen | even if it isn't a success, we'll still get to 'keep' the openmoko stack to use on other devices |
| 13:41.38 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-027.eplus-online.de) |
| 13:41.43 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 13:41.48 | MortenLysgaard | Yes, i would never buy one of them. |
| 13:42.00 | SpeedEvil | FIC's motivation is at the moment they are a contractor to nokia et al. |
| 13:42.14 | SpeedEvil | They make the phone for (comparatively) tiny profits. |
| 13:42.33 | SpeedEvil | If they can sell direct to end users instead, then they get a much bigger slice of the pie. |
| 13:42.48 | SpeedEvil | Even if the phone becomes a commodity, like the PC. |
| 13:42.58 | MortenLysgaard | Yes, the neo is supercheap, it costs about half of what a simular phone would cost in norway |
| 13:43.14 | buz | SpeedEvil: in some sense, low end phones are much more of a commodity than even pc |
| 13:43.22 | koen | I'm curious about v2 |
| 13:43.25 | SpeedEvil | Though I think all the phones at the price point have wifi or camera. |
| 13:43.30 | koen | it will atleast have EDGE :) |
| 13:43.51 | buz | there were some rumours about faster radio in v1.5 too |
| 13:44.03 | SpeedEvil | That may simply be firmware. |
| 13:44.07 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 13:44.13 | koen | SpeedEvil: you mean the pricepoints after subsedized |
| 13:44.20 | SpeedEvil | koen: no. |
| 13:44.37 | koen | buz: FIC is meeting up with TI next week about the NEPTUNE chip |
| 13:44.57 | SpeedEvil | I mean that the exact feature set is hard to hit. |
| 13:45.20 | SpeedEvil | because GPS tends not to get into phones without camera and wifi |
| 13:47.26 | buz | i still wonder why the camera was left out. seems like a comparatively simple module |
| 13:47.36 | MortenLysgaard | What's the NEPTUNE? |
| 13:47.42 | buz | yeah i cant find it |
| 13:47.52 | koen | the gsm modem used |
| 13:48.07 | SpeedEvil | The camera pretty much needs the full case depth. |
| 13:48.17 | koen | or rather, the one fic wants to use :) |
| 13:48.26 | koen | p1 has the calypso |
| 13:48.26 | SpeedEvil | so it's actually quite hard to add without making the phone larger. |
| 13:48.41 | buz | SpeedEvil: well there are 1cm thick phones with cam |
| 13:48.44 | buz | there are thin modules |
| 13:48.56 | buz | the cam could easily have gone where the hole is |
| 13:48.56 | MortenLysgaard | Ok, and the neptune's better than the calypso? |
| 13:49.05 | buz | i suppose it has edge |
| 13:49.43 | SpeedEvil | There is SPI just next to the hole too... |
| 13:50.02 | MortenLysgaard | That's somthing, but I will never use gprs, nor edge. It costs 3$ a mb in norway! |
| 13:50.58 | buz | we know there wont be a cam in 1.5 |
| 13:51.07 | koen | â¬20/GiB/month here |
| 13:51.57 | buz | i can now get flat rate GPRS/UMTS for 2? a day here. |
| 13:52.03 | buz | and you only pay for the days where you use it |
| 13:52.09 | SpeedEvil | buz: UK? |
| 13:52.15 | buz | SpeedEvil: switzerland |
| 13:52.19 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 13:52.23 | buz | but not with prepay cards |
| 13:52.29 | buz | only with contract |
| 13:52.29 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 13:53.10 | mjr | buz, hm, not bad for many uses, though if you use it daily, adds up |
| 13:53.19 | buz | mjr: yeah |
| 13:53.26 | buz | for 1? i'd probably use it daily ;) |
| 13:53.45 | koen | IIRC the moto a780 uses the neptune radio as well |
| 13:54.09 | buz | WTF does TI hide that chip |
| 13:54.09 | SpeedEvil | For t-mobile - UK - unlimited GPRS is 7.50 pounds (13$us or so) /mo on t-mobile, |
| 13:54.32 | SpeedEvil | but you need a contract, for a minimum of 22.50 with an 18 month contract. |
| 13:54.36 | mjr | buz, incidentally, you said "1?" |
| 13:54.54 | buz | mjr: i said 2E above |
| 13:54.58 | SpeedEvil | TI doesn't bother putting much on their mobile stuff on the web. |
| 13:55.00 | buz | for 1E i'd probably use it |
| 13:55.24 | SpeedEvil | As all the interested players read the industry magazines, or more likley, have a TI rep calling them about it. |
| 13:55.27 | mjr | buz, oh, I meant the ? part, charset trouble |
| 13:55.39 | buz | mjr: that whas supposed to be an EUR sign |
| 13:55.51 | mjr | yes, I assumed that |
| 13:56.46 | buz | samsung should sell wifi chipsets, t hose would probably have gpl drivers |
| 13:56.55 | buz | (then again, their printers dont have them either) |
| 13:57.19 | MortenLysgaard | But those wifi chips, are they small en power efficient? |
| 13:58.17 | buz | some very small ones around |
| 13:58.18 | buz | as for power efficient, not very |
| 13:59.50 | buz | i would totally get that |
| 14:00.38 | parag0n | mjr, bastard! |
| 14:00.41 | buz | heck even at 64kbit |
| 14:00.55 | parag0n | that much would get me about 5mb in the UK :< |
| 14:00.55 | buz | with constant connectivity it be more than enough for my uses |
| 14:01.45 | SpeedEvil | I think t-mobile is the least-worse solution in the UK. |
| 14:02.01 | SpeedEvil | 22.50/mo for unlimited (1G fair use/mo) GPRS |
| 14:02.02 | MortenLysgaard | mjr: where do you live, I whis ther was deals like this in Norway too |
| 14:02.17 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 14:02.28 | parag0n | aye, orange flat rate is £45 :< |
| 14:02.46 | SpeedEvil | Deeply annoyingly. |
| 14:02.52 | SpeedEvil | That's the 18month contract. |
| 14:02.52 | mjr | Morten, in your slightly neighbouring mobile phone country, Finland |
| 14:03.12 | SpeedEvil | for which you get for 9.99 a MDA - which looks to be worth around at least the same amount as a neo. |
| 14:03.14 | SpeedEvil | on ebay |
| 14:06.24 | MortenLysgaard | The best i can find is 100 nok. (ca. 13eur) for 20mb/month. after those 20mb you pay 0.7 eur/mb |
| 14:08.06 | mjr | Bummer. It's been fluctuating here too. First, a few years ago, I had flat at 20â¬/month. Then they changed that to max. 100m/month (for private customers). But now again two providers are giving out reasonable flat deals. |
| 14:08.35 | MortenLysgaard | If you want free connectivity over gprs, you have to pay 60eur a month :S |
| 14:13.26 | parag0n | GPRS on o2 used to be completely free |
| 14:13.52 | parag0n | they put a stop to it as soon as they found out :< |
| 14:19.32 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 14:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko Moo^^ (n=moo@owla-gw.cust.eunet.fi) |
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| 14:27.34 | MortenLysgaard | Me want o2 free gprs! |
| 14:28.32 | SpeedEvil | I want free wi-hype. |
| 14:28.50 | SpeedEvil | This is gigabit ethernet speed wireless that works everywhere, even in caves. |
| 14:29.24 | MortenLysgaard | Yeah, that'd be the best, but I don't think I can wait for the possible hw refresh. i'm to impatient |
| 14:29.39 | MortenLysgaard | Haha |
| 14:30.10 | MortenLysgaard | Escpecially in "Secret underground lairs" ^^ |
| 14:30.11 | [g2] | SpeedEvil, and it's free :) |
| 14:30.34 | [g2] | just a little imagination required :) |
| 14:32.11 | MortenLysgaard | Think of how it would be if the phone net was like p2p, that ecery phone acted as a node and that you packets just "jumped" from phone to phone till it reaced it's target |
| 14:32.47 | [g2] | MortenLysgaard, it's be a poor network |
| 14:33.21 | [g2] | variable latencies so voice quality would suck |
| 14:34.02 | [g2] | it'd be great for just packet data (like sms or web browsing) |
| 14:34.46 | MortenLysgaard | Yes, i ment for data not analog signals. But thinkgs like IM |
| 14:36.27 | MortenLysgaard | The closest you could come would probably be a bluetooth network, that routed the packets. But bluetooth has way to inferior range, wifi too |
| 14:37.23 | daniel_bergamini | MortenLysgaard: that is commonly referred to as mesh networking |
| 14:37.40 | mjr | it would be cool, but the phone batteries wouldn't like it ;) |
| 14:37.42 | daniel_bergamini | OLSR (#olsr) is one of the better protocols available now, I've played with it on openwrt |
| 14:39.07 | *** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu) |
| 14:39.23 | daniel_bergamini | basically finds neighbor nodes and works like RIP to update the routing tables to inform all the other neighbors it can get through it |
| 14:40.14 | MortenLysgaard | Cool, there actually is somthing that is like that? What net does it use, wifi, bluetooth? |
| 14:40.38 | daniel_bergamini | any interface that can run IP |
| 14:41.07 | daniel_bergamini | v4 or v6 I believe |
| 14:41.24 | MortenLysgaard | Ah, i missunderstood, so you still need somthing to run it over. |
| 14:42.18 | mjr | rather "you _can_ run it over anything existing" |
| 14:42.21 | *** join/#openmoko koen|away (i=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 14:42.33 | daniel_bergamini | it is just the routing protocol but designed and tuned for wireless networks |
| 14:43.27 | daniel_bergamini | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:43.32 | daniel_bergamini | hope that didn't flood |
| 14:43.44 | *** join/#openmoko koen_ (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 14:44.08 | daniel_bergamini | http://www.olsr.org |
| 14:44.25 | MortenLysgaard | Ok, sounds cool, but wifi on phones today is to actually make it functoning, and you've still got the problem that everybody has to have it before it works |
| 14:44.52 | daniel_bergamini | yes absolutely, but with a device like this it is possible |
| 14:44.58 | daniel_bergamini | for all users of this device anyway |
| 14:45.29 | daniel_bergamini | but unless all the WM5 users install a daemon for it, it will be limited to these devices (and other linux machines that run it) |
| 14:45.34 | MortenLysgaard | Yes, I just every mobilephone in the world was a neo, then this would be possible |
| 14:45.55 | MortenLysgaard | If* |
| 14:46.14 | parag0n | whyt does the US have really cheap gprs, but ridiculously locked down phones? |
| 14:46.24 | parag0n | its odd, when the rest of the workd has the opposite |
| 14:46.28 | daniel_bergamini | parag0n: a fantastic question |
| 14:46.32 | koen | because the have the right to arm bears ;) |
| 14:46.51 | parag0n | the right to have a pair of bear arms mounted on their walls? |
| 14:47.03 | daniel_bergamini | with t-mobile over here the mobile web thingy ($6 mo) is wide open right now |
| 14:47.13 | MortenLysgaard | Why does norway have ridiculously locked down phones, and superexpensive gprs |
| 14:47.33 | daniel_bergamini | I think the unlimited internet is $20 and includes the hotspot functionality |
| 14:47.35 | mjr | because the US happened to get the "operators give you a 'free' phone that you pay for in service fees" culture |
| 14:48.08 | daniel_bergamini | and while unlreated, the right to have firearms is nice too |
| 14:49.47 | daniel_bergamini | it's not nice that it's turned us into world-wide bullies, but I digress |
| 14:50.03 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 14:50.11 | daniel_bergamini | so has the neo been released? |
| 14:50.14 | daniel_bergamini | I know it's close |
| 14:50.28 | summatusmentis | release to masses in sept. |
| 14:50.44 | daniel_bergamini | I'm trying to decide if I'm going to make the plunge for the dev kit or just wait until the next gen comes out |
| 14:51.01 | summatusmentis | I'd wait, personally, but I can't even get GSM, so... |
| 14:51.01 | daniel_bergamini | if I knew what the discount structure for early adopters was, I'd be more likely to jump right in |
| 14:52.07 | daniel_bergamini | I'm pretty happy we get 1-2-3 bars of local EDGE signal at the house |
| 14:52.21 | daniel_bergamini | and we're out in the middle of nowhere, no home phone, no power but we get EDGE |
| 14:52.36 | daniel_bergamini | what kind of latency are people seeing to the first hop over EDGE? |
| 14:52.58 | koen | google.com over edge is ~300ms |
| 14:53.01 | daniel_bergamini | I'm starting to wonder how far away the tower is though, I want to say last I tried I was getting something like > 1k ms |
| 14:53.23 | koen | upto 30000ms on a busy link |
| 14:53.29 | daniel_bergamini | I did borrow a diffferent phone from work this weekend I'll see what kind |
| 14:53.35 | daniel_bergamini | ok maybe it's just flooded then |
| 14:53.37 | koen | (using ping) |
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| 14:59.32 | daniel_bergamini | summatusmentis: so you would recommend wait? |
| 15:00.02 | daniel_bergamini | I wish I just knew how well this would take off or not. this has the potential to make a large impact on the mobile market |
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| 15:05.06 | summatusmentis | daniel_bergamini: yeah, I'd wait, the current version, from what I've read, really isn't usable as a phone. I(if I had GSM) would wait for the final product |
| 15:05.48 | daniel_bergamini | alright, I'll keep up on the project then |
| 15:06.00 | daniel_bergamini | maybe start developing if I get a bigger disk for this machine |
| 15:11.04 | SpeedEvil | It is _usable_ as a phone - nothing else though. |
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| 15:18.13 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: ok, fair, not as a consumer product, at all |
| 15:22.38 | daniel_bergamini | how about as a modem? |
| 15:23.34 | daniel_bergamini | and you can use it as a phone and modem at the same time? my old motorola, my wife's motorola and our old (CDMA) LG phones could work as a phone and modem at the same time, but my t-mobile MDA (HTC wizard) can't |
| 15:24.23 | koen | SpeedEvil: paperweight, doorstop, etc ;P |
| 15:24.29 | koen | s/P/)/ |
| 15:26.30 | mjr | daniel_bergamini, a voice call will put a gprs connection on hold |
| 15:28.18 | daniel_bergamini | is that something in the physical architecture or something that just needs work driver wise? |
| 15:29.48 | mjr | it's a limitation of the GSM chip; most GSM phones are that way |
| 15:30.13 | daniel_bergamini | well at least it will let the call through |
| 15:30.41 | daniel_bergamini | I'm going to have to retest the wifes phone and see if I'm just making it up then |
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| 15:31.24 | quickdev | When you connect a digital camera to the neo - is it possible to transfer the images from the camera? |
| 15:31.36 | SpeedEvil | Meaningless question. |
| 15:31.48 | SpeedEvil | At the moment it's a linux PC |
| 15:31.59 | SpeedEvil | It has some marginal phone software on there. |
| 15:32.10 | daniel_bergamini | quickdev: I would guess it depends if the camera requires a powered usb connection or not |
| 15:32.15 | SpeedEvil | Asking about final features at the moment isn't really relevant. |
| 15:32.16 | quickdev | I was thinking that there might be problems because of the unpowered usb |
| 15:32.44 | quickdev | daniel_bergamini: that was what I wanted to know ;) |
| 15:32.47 | SpeedEvil | You will - at least for P1, probably P1+ too need a little adaptor with a battery. |
| 15:33.21 | mjr | not completely necessarily, but likely with at least some (most?) models |
| 15:34.05 | SpeedEvil | I'd say most. |
| 15:34.32 | daniel_bergamini | I'm guessing the usb host functionality is going to be pretty limited without a powered bus |
| 15:34.33 | SpeedEvil | Most of the devices that have internal power seem not to work at all if the host is unpowered. |
| 15:34.46 | SpeedEvil | This is trivial to test. |
| 15:34.50 | SpeedEvil | Take a USB cable. |
| 15:34.56 | SpeedEvil | Cut off the outer insulation. |
| 15:34.57 | mjr | ok, I've been wondering about that but don't have any anecdotal evidence even |
| 15:35.00 | SpeedEvil | Snip the red wire. |
| 15:35.04 | SpeedEvil | Try stuff. |
| 15:35.15 | mjr | true |
| 15:35.35 | SpeedEvil | My belkin tetrahub doesn't work, nor does the printer or camera I tried. |
| 15:35.41 | mjr | bummer |
| 15:35.56 | SpeedEvil | I may have just gotten unlucky. |
| 15:36.25 | daniel_bergamini | would be nice to have a few watts of power for the bus, should keep most devices from charging but might provide basic functionality |
| 15:36.50 | SpeedEvil | you can tell devices you plug in you only have 100mA available. |
| 15:37.02 | SpeedEvil | Some don't respect that though. |
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| 15:37.27 | daniel_bergamini | that would be a problem |
| 15:37.42 | daniel_bergamini | could always add an auto-latching current sensor to the bus power |
| 15:38.10 | SpeedEvil | It's got to be a seperate current converter. Nothing else in the phone uses 5V |
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| 15:39.03 | daniel_bergamini | if it draws more than it can provide it trips a relay that cuts power until the device is removed. yeah ou' |
| 15:39.26 | daniel_bergamini | you'd need to put something in there like a PWM to step it down to 5v |
| 15:39.37 | daniel_bergamini | for something that small there should be plenty of options. |
| 15:40.10 | mjr | up to |
| 15:40.50 | daniel_bergamini | but it needs to be decided what exactly what the phone is going to be used for |
| 15:41.05 | mjr | umm, no ;) |
| 15:41.51 | daniel_bergamini | what does the battery run at? |
| 15:43.16 | mjr | 3.3V |
| 15:43.36 | daniel_bergamini | ok, up to |
| 15:43.41 | daniel_bergamini | but not PWM then |
| 15:44.16 | daniel_bergamini | might just be time to get a sony ux |
| 15:47.23 | daniel_bergamini | alright gents, back in a while time to work on the laundry room |
| 15:49.06 | sannes | counter |
| 15:49.06 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 20:10:53 (12.841 +-7.0 days) (616) |
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| 15:52.32 | quickdev | Are there already gps drivers? |
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| 15:55.37 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:Parag0n]] [[Talk:GSM_%26_GPRS_Connection_Status]] |
| 15:58.09 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 15:58.18 | SpeedEvil | week or several. |
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| 16:01.19 | quickdev | SpeedEvil: the P1 phones are at the moment only phones, nothing more - but it will be probably a usable phone in some months? |
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| 16:02.18 | SpeedEvil | The aim is to have it a working consumer device by September. |
| 16:03.34 | quickdev | But the software will still work for P1? |
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| 16:04.26 | mjr | should, modulo speed issues with the older, slower soc |
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| 16:06.41 | quickdev | mjr: soc = processor? |
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| 16:08.34 | thomasg__ | system on chip |
| 16:09.12 | thomasg__ | means the main processor and some special processors on a single chip |
| 16:09.32 | thomasg__ | e.g. main processor, gsm-module, bluetooth chip or something like this |
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| 16:12.28 | balrog-kun | right, although gsm and bluetooth happen to be external chips :p |
| 16:16.14 | thomasg__ | hm, why the date for phase2 is exactly september 11? :) |
| 16:21.15 | mjr | :D |
| 16:22.01 | mjr | and yeah, in this case the soc has at least the cpu, video and usb functionality |
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| 16:32.12 | thomasg__ | mjr: what video capabilities does the used samsung soc provide? |
| 16:32.28 | thomasg__ | mpeg4 decoding? |
| 16:32.31 | balrog-kun | an LCD controller |
| 16:32.31 | koen | a framebuffer |
| 16:32.35 | balrog-kun | nope, bare framebuffer |
| 16:32.37 | thomasg__ | ah, ok |
| 16:32.45 | thomasg__ | what a pitty, that would be nice on this display, too |
| 16:33.40 | koen | most mpeg4 accel in chips is "IPR", so unusable with an opensource kernel |
| 16:34.01 | thomasg__ | I'm anxious to see how that soc performs in the neo |
| 16:34.22 | thomasg__ | koen, IPR="intellectual property"? |
| 16:34.25 | koen | as well as you'd expect from a 266MHz arm arm9 cpu |
| 16:34.28 | koen | thomasg__: yes |
| 16:34.32 | koen | aka "nonsense" |
| 16:34.51 | thomasg__ | because of that I used the "" :) |
| 16:36.22 | thomasg__ | and well, ok, It will perform like a 200/266MHz arm9, thats sure. but I had several arm9 chips in several mobile phones and I have seen that only the software plattform really matters. |
| 16:37.27 | thomasg__ | speaking of smyian UQI1/2/3, series60-1/2/3, series90, series80 and windows mobile/ce |
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| 16:54.40 | LarstiQ | koen: are you going to be near the randstad sometime during the next weeks? |
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| 17:08.24 | koen | LarstiQ: not really |
| 17:08.38 | koen | either enschede or california :) |
| 17:08.41 | LarstiQ | heh |
| 17:09.04 | LarstiQ | I don't think I'll visit either anytime soon. |
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| 17:48.26 | thresh | hi guys |
| 17:48.33 | thresh | and girls, if any |
| 17:48.41 | combr- | thresh: hi |
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| 18:06.11 | helb | counter |
| 18:06.12 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 17:53:49 (12.746 +-7.0 days) (617) |
| 18:06.17 | helb | =)) |
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| 18:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko flowhase (i=flowhase@hadince17.hadiko.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 18:13.44 | flowhase | hi there |
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| 18:16.35 | flowhase | i would like to know if it is still possible to participate on the openmoko project in googles SoC |
| 18:17.20 | balrog-kun | you can still submit ideas/applications until Monday afaik |
| 18:17.21 | LarstiQ | flowhase: the gsoc deadline is the 26th |
| 18:18.30 | flowhase | yeah, i just wanted to verify that this extended deadline applies here too |
| 18:19.07 | flowhase | and i wanted to ask for some directions on where to submit my application to |
| 18:19.14 | LarstiQ | flowhase: it extends for all of gsoc |
| 18:19.55 | flowhase | so i just upload my application to the gsoc student dashboard and will get notified? |
| 18:19.56 | aloril | flowhase: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:21.48 | thomasg__ | is doom 1 already running on the neo? :) |
| 18:22.01 | flowhase | hmm :> |
| 18:22.23 | flowhase | how would the input-problem be solved? |
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| 18:22.38 | thomasg__ | onscreen keys? |
| 18:22.42 | flowhase | i think 3d shooters on touchscreens is a bit ... awkward ;> |
| 18:23.03 | flowhase | hmm |
| 18:23.21 | summatusmentis | they have doom running on an iPod, which would be awkward too |
| 18:23.50 | flowhase | summatusmentis: well ... a friend of mine had it on his ipod nano |
| 18:23.53 | thomasg__ | holding the phone in hands like a psp and two buttons on each side (on the display). e.g. forward and left on the left side and backward and right on the right side. |
| 18:24.01 | flowhase | it was damn awkward ;> |
| 18:24.04 | koen | check the doom version the indt people did |
| 18:24.11 | thomasg__ | I had doom an nearby all of my devices ^^ |
| 18:24.13 | koen | it had a stylus navigation mode |
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| 18:24.17 | summatusmentis | flowhase: I'm sure it was |
| 18:24.31 | thomasg__ | all symbian phones (except the series90 one), the iAudio, ... :) |
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| 18:25.01 | flowhase | besides the touchscreen the neo does not have any additional buttons, does it? |
| 18:25.10 | balrog-kun | i have doom running on a Palm too |
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| 18:25.19 | balrog-kun | flowhase: it has two hardware buttons |
| 18:25.26 | flowhase | hmm |
| 18:25.48 | balrog-kun | 911 key and HOLD key |
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| 18:27.27 | thomasg__ | openmoko is still lacking a terminal emulator, isn't it? |
| 18:27.45 | summatusmentis | what??? embedded linux and no term? |
| 18:27.56 | balrog-kun | rxvt is installed by deault |
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| 18:28.18 | thomasg__ | then I am wrong. thx |
| 18:28.23 | balrog-kun | but there's no terminal with a nice openmoko theme yet (afaik( |
| 18:28.34 | summatusmentis | oh, well, at least there's a terminal |
| 18:29.09 | balrog-kun | even gnome-terminal should run (haven't tried) |
| 18:29.17 | thomasg__ | summatusmentis, there are dozens of devices running embedded linux and having no terminal |
| 18:29.33 | summatusmentis | I know, and it's blasphemy :-D |
| 18:29.44 | thomasg__ | it definately is :) |
| 18:29.59 | summatusmentis | heh |
| 18:30.05 | koen | balrog-kun: gnome-terminal requires 3MB of gnomelibs to do stuff like url highlighting |
| 18:30.56 | balrog-kun | i though there may something like --without-gnome in its configure |
| 18:31.17 | balrog-kun | it for sure needs gtk and vte |
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| 18:31.51 | thomasg__ | I really look forward to have enlightenment (0.17) and many etk-based applications on the neo |
| 18:32.17 | thomasg__ | the enlightenment foundation libraries seem to be perfect for this device |
| 18:32.23 | koen | vte drags in lots of crap |
| 18:32.46 | koen | thomasg__: from a speed POV, yes |
| 18:33.07 | koen | thomasg__: but none of the e apps currenty available are usuable with a touchscreen |
| 18:33.13 | koen | (except canola) |
| 18:34.09 | thomasg__ | koen, why not? are special functions needed for interaction with a touchscreen? is there no mouse-emulation or something like this? |
| 18:35.56 | koen | thomasg__: try using your desktop with no keyboard |
| 18:36.13 | koen | that gives you a hint about the challenges |
| 18:36.36 | summatusmentis | meh, keyboards are overrated :-D I use my computer with my mind! |
| 18:37.25 | thomasg__ | koen: but it should be possible to run etk-apps and push buttons e.g., correct? |
| 18:37.30 | koen | yes |
| 18:37.36 | koen | tiny etk buttons |
| 18:37.40 | thomasg__ | hehe |
| 18:37.45 | koen | since everyone assumes 75DPI |
| 18:38.09 | summatusmentis | I asked this a couple of days ago, and mickey|zzZZzz didn't know, but does FIC have any plans to do CDMA? |
| 18:38.33 | koen | I suspect not |
| 18:38.38 | summatusmentis | bummer |
| 18:39.00 | koen | CDMA is pretty much dying |
| 18:39.12 | thomasg__ | I read, that it is hard to find cdma chips with open and good documentation. even it is very complex. |
| 18:39.15 | SuN | That is quite the implication. |
| 18:39.26 | summatusmentis | well, one of the largest cell providers in the US is CDMA |
| 18:39.36 | summatusmentis | and it's all I can get w/ reliable service where I'm at |
| 18:39.44 | koen | The US cellphone market is not a good example |
| 18:40.03 | thomasg__ | well, except the states normal CDMA doesnt really matter. |
| 18:40.05 | summatusmentis | no, I'm not saying it is, but it's not likely to die here anytime soon |
| 18:40.11 | koen | OTOH, w-cdma is very alive |
| 18:40.16 | thomasg__ | others have WCDMA or EDGE |
| 18:40.45 | summatusmentis | thomasg__: can't get any of that either |
| 18:40.46 | thomasg__ | in germany theres a 98% EDGE availability |
| 18:40.56 | summatusmentis | rural US sucks |
| 18:42.31 | thomasg__ | hm, yes, there are too less people in too big areas, so putting mobile basestations wouldnt make sence here |
| 18:43.22 | koen | and gsm max range is 30km.... |
| 18:44.02 | koen | (physical, speed of light limit, not a power limit) |
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| 19:04.26 | woglinde | counter |
| 19:04.26 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 16:55:33 (12.705 +-7.0 days) (618) |
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| 19:18.34 | PBeck | hoi |
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| 20:00.06 | MetaBookfoziS | how can i get what is the nearest store for my home where i can buy openmoko? |
| 20:00.11 | MetaBookfoziS | neo* |
| 20:00.12 | MetaBookfoziS | :) |
| 20:00.32 | woglinde | metabook it will happen soon |
| 20:00.41 | MetaBookfoziS | ? |
| 20:00.59 | koen | the nearest store is openmoko.com |
| 20:01.00 | woglinde | the moko isnt now in the market |
| 20:01.23 | MetaBookfoziS | yes, but that company that sales it in the future is only in america |
| 20:01.24 | MetaBookfoziS | ? |
| 20:01.51 | MetaBookfoziS | no branch office? |
| 20:01.54 | balrog-kun | rather Asia |
| 20:01.58 | woglinde | hm I should keeping learn for operating systems exam instead of writing bad english |
| 20:02.52 | MetaBookfoziS | and if i'm in the middle of europe, what way can get neo before september? |
| 20:03.25 | balrog-kun | there's some FAQ entry about this... |
| 20:04.44 | philippe | koen: have you already reflashed your Neo? |
| 20:04.53 | MetaBookfoziS | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page#FIC_.2F_OpenMoko_at_Events |
| 20:05.13 | MetaBookfoziS | wrong anchor, but in this page:) |
| 20:05.50 | koen | philippe: it has been running angstrom since I received it |
| 20:05.58 | koen | I updated uboot last week |
| 20:06.10 | philippe | koen: good! |
| 20:06.25 | philippe | so no problems with jffs2? |
| 20:06.46 | koen | I did an erase before flashing |
| 20:07.06 | philippe | koen: great idea! I hadn't tought of that yet. |
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| 20:08.10 | MetaBookfoziS | is that possible to attach a webcam to openmoko? |
| 20:08.43 | MetaBookfoziS | not the attaching is the question, the using (has that enough cpu power for that?) |
| 20:08.46 | koen | if you have a powered usb hub |
| 20:08.48 | MetaBookfoziS | i know the usb isunpowered |
| 20:08.53 | MetaBookfoziS | yes... but other things? |
| 20:09.07 | MetaBookfoziS | has it enough power in cpu for that? |
| 20:09.24 | koen | to do what? |
| 20:09.30 | MetaBookfoziS | to do photo... |
| 20:10.04 | MetaBookfoziS | the currently phones can do 1.3mpx photos, but thats isn't webcams... it's specialised cameras, so thats why i asked |
| 20:10.08 | koen | define 'photo' |
| 20:10.26 | MetaBookfoziS | like with a normal mobilephone |
| 20:10.32 | MetaBookfoziS | but with a webcam. |
| 20:10.34 | aevin | i htink he means record a video |
| 20:10.40 | koen | capturing a stream if pixels hardly needs cpu |
| 20:10.57 | mjr | you can almost certainly (if you solve the power issue) grab pics from a webcam |
| 20:11.04 | mjr | video, probably not |
| 20:11.08 | koen | s/if/of/ |
| 20:11.20 | MetaBookfoziS | not video... |
| 20:11.50 | MetaBookfoziS | but my phone with 120mhz cpu can do that... but i'm don't know how things work via usb and with a webcam. |
| 20:12.23 | Magon | it goes through in jpeg format with most webcams |
| 20:12.54 | mjr | well, a small bit of crappy quality video you could probably snatch, like in other phones ;P |
| 20:13.18 | MetaBookfoziS | cool. (I'm just designs - in head - a little expansion kit with wifi and a webcam:)) |
| 20:13.36 | MetaBookfoziS | video is not important |
| 20:13.55 | mjr | yah, put a battery-powered hub in the kit and you should be okay |
| 20:13.55 | MetaBookfoziS | but if i change my phone with openmoko, i will misses it's photos... |
| 20:14.25 | mjr | (provided the hub doesn't get confused by not getting power from the phone, apparently some do) |
| 20:15.07 | mjr | (I'd guess that battery-powered hubs would be designed not to be too fussy about it...) |
| 20:15.57 | MetaBookfoziS | yes... |
| 20:16.38 | MetaBookfoziS | so i need the world's smallest: accumulator, wifidongle and a webcam:) |
| 20:16.59 | mjr | of course, a power injector and an unpowered hub would _certainly_ work if nothing else |
| 20:17.13 | MetaBookfoziS | a little plexi and some tinkering |
| 20:17.35 | MetaBookfoziS | yep |
| 20:18.26 | mjr | basically, "make your own powered hub" |
| 20:19.21 | MetaBookfoziS | yes |
| 20:19.27 | MetaBookfoziS | that what i want:) |
| 20:19.49 | MetaBookfoziS | and an usb hub... |
| 20:19.50 | MetaBookfoziS | :) |
| 20:20.22 | mjr | keep in mind though that the usb is 1.1 and hence tops off at 11Mbps, but that probably doesn't kill your project |
| 20:22.20 | MetaBookfoziS | i need to thoughful when i bow the wires;) |
| 20:33.57 | MetaBookfoziS | so we don't know, where will be the first european distributor before it's came out in end of march... |
| 20:34.01 | MetaBookfoziS | [ http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001216.html ] |
| 20:34.12 | MetaBookfoziS | i can't wait:/ |
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| 20:37.40 | Mandarino | Hiz ppl! |
| 20:38.20 | MetaBookfoziS | hiz! |
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| 20:40.22 | Mandarino | How are you? |
| 20:52.55 | MetaBookfoziS | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/001149.html |
| 20:52.56 | MetaBookfoziS | hm |
| 20:55.37 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Main_Page]] |
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| 21:14.37 | Elrond | counter |
| 21:14.38 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 14:45:21 (12.615 +-7.0 days) (619) |
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| 21:17.45 | Elrond | Hmm, was the counter shifted a little? |
| 21:18.42 | parag0n | looks like it :( |
| 21:19.30 | zipola | The eternal counter never reaches 0 :P |
| 21:20.56 | CoreDump|home | well, it reached "0" for P0 already ;) |
| 21:25.38 | MetaBookfoziS | wh now grundig b700? |
| 21:28.26 | MetaBookfoziS | who know'?:D |
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| 21:38.04 | koen | Elrond: see planet.openmoko.org |
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| 21:52.09 | MetaBookfoziS | is there other opensource linux phone |
| 21:52.10 | MetaBookfoziS | ? |
| 21:52.26 | mjr | no |
| 21:52.35 | MetaBookfoziS | i can found many linux powered phone, but i don't think thats open like neo |
| 21:52.44 | mjr | yep |
| 21:53.29 | MetaBookfoziS | http://www.road-gmbh.de/en/unternehmen/index.html |
| 21:53.42 | MetaBookfoziS | check this, it's very simpatic, 400mhz and what you need... |
| 21:53.51 | MetaBookfoziS | but i think it's closed, and expensive as hell. |
| 21:55.10 | MetaBookfoziS | and grundig came out int the near future with linux powered phone, but no information about it's prices and opennes... |
| 21:55.37 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
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| 21:57.12 | MetaBookfoziS | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Unlikely |
| 21:57.16 | MetaBookfoziS | flux capacitor:) |
| 22:05.02 | prom | .o(would be great if someone cleaned away the (crack-)pipedreams *cough*) |
| 22:07.49 | MetaBookfoziS | what is open linux?:) |
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| 22:26.24 | abraxa_ | MetaBookfoziS: To me, that ROAD thingie looks like vaporware... |
| 22:27.43 | MetaBookfoziS | please explain the meaning of vaporware |
| 22:27.51 | MetaBookfoziS | (my translator don'T found any meaning) |
| 22:28.52 | benJIman | It's spelt vapour not vapor in English, try that. |
| 22:29.01 | abraxa_ | Vaporware means that a product is announced, advertised for but never sold |
| 22:29.14 | balrog-kun | there's a wikipedia page for vaporware |
| 22:29.18 | MetaBookfoziS | yep |
| 22:29.24 | MetaBookfoziS | i found it's meaning |
| 22:29.37 | MetaBookfoziS | yep, both like this |
| 22:29.51 | MetaBookfoziS | grundig phones (3-4-5) , h9 , road... |
| 22:30.01 | MetaBookfoziS | no price or release date |
| 22:30.05 | MetaBookfoziS | i'm annoyed:( |
| 22:30.49 | abraxa_ | Don't be, FIC came to the rescue ;D |
| 22:31.39 | MetaBookfoziS | yep, but openmoko is not too compilant for my need |
| 22:31.39 | MetaBookfoziS | or it need a lot of hacking for that... |
| 22:31.39 | balrog-kun | openmoko was also considered vaporware by some |
| 22:32.01 | MetaBookfoziS | why? |
| 22:32.07 | MetaBookfoziS | that has milestones |
| 22:32.12 | MetaBookfoziS | and the hw is exists |
| 22:32.15 | MetaBookfoziS | not? |
| 22:32.15 | abraxa_ | Hard to imagine, considering how open Sean is with everything that's going on |
| 22:32.17 | balrog-kun | MetaBookfoziS: because the release date was shited several times |
| 22:32.42 | MetaBookfoziS | yes, but because it's under hard work |
| 22:32.45 | balrog-kun | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:OpenMoko |
| 22:32.46 | MetaBookfoziS | and we know it's price |
| 22:33.48 | MetaBookfoziS | and? |
| 22:33.51 | MetaBookfoziS | is that open? |
| 22:33.54 | abraxa_ | Interesting link... thanks, balrog |
| 22:36.36 | koen | djeeez |
| 22:36.43 | koen | "It runs on the OpenEmbedded distribution of Linux and uses the ipkg package system." |
| 22:36.51 | koen | OE IS NOT A DISTRIBUTION! |
| 22:37.08 | balrog-kun | in the end only about 36 people have the working devices and 36 people could be convinced to produce fake pictures etc :P |
| 22:37.23 | abraxa_ | koen, wanna fix it then? ;) |
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| 22:37.46 | koen | abraxa_: and get in some edit-war with some ignorant wikipedia jerk? |
| 22:37.48 | koen | not again |
| 22:38.16 | abraxa_ | Wow, you already had that happen to you? I'm yet to experience it myself hehe |
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| 23:46.11 | rwhitby | morning |
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| 23:50.12 | abraxa_ | Morning... and we in Germany are yet to switch from DST - in 10 minutes, to be precise |
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