irclog2html for #openmoko on 20070321

00:01.34pavelm<PROTECTED>
00:03.39*** join/#openmoko toko123 (n=toko123@c-JKS-72-28-62-38.echoes.net)
00:04.26toko123please vote for Ellen Reavey        http://www.wvia.org/education/AoW06-07/index.shtml         Thanks for your gnerousity of spirit in advance
00:08.10Elrondhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Battery/de%26action%3Dedit
00:08.15ElrondWhat's that for a crap?!
00:08.25ElrondI mean the title.
00:08.55mickeylheh
00:08.57mickeylsounds like a mistake
00:09.47ElrondYeah.
00:11.14ElrondI'll fix it.
00:12.10*** part/#openmoko toko123 (n=toko123@c-JKS-72-28-62-38.echoes.net)
00:12.36Elrondwhere's the rename-button in the wiki?!
00:12.42ElrondOr the delete-button?!
00:14.06SpeedEvil'move'
00:14.17SpeedEvilIIRC it's on the left
00:14.20SpeedEvildunno about delete
00:15.00Elrond*looking*
00:16.34mickeylhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Introduction#Videos
00:18.11mickeylhmm wait
00:18.12mickeylcan't do that
00:21.24Elrondmickeyl - Where's the move or delete button on the wiki?!
00:21.41mickeyltop row
00:22.22mickeylguess you need to be logged in to see that row
00:22.30ElrondI'm logged in.
00:22.39mickeylhmm odd
00:22.42mickeyli can see it here:
00:22.47ElrondI've switched it to "use no style" to see all and everything. Still nothing.
00:22.48mickeylarticle discussion edit history protect delete move watch
00:23.03stefan_schmidtmickeyl: admin privs...
00:23.05mickeylok, the video is here
00:23.07mickeylhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Introduction#Videos
00:23.11mickeylstefan_schmidt: hmm possible
00:23.15mickeylshould i do something for ya?
00:23.49mickeylMove page
00:23.49mickeylFrom OpenMoko
00:23.49mickeylMove succeeded
00:23.49mickeylJump to: navigation, search
00:23.49mickeylPage "Battery/de&action=edit" moved to "Battery/de".
00:23.52mickeylok?
00:26.12*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
00:26.30Elrondmickeyl - Yeah, exactly that.
00:26.40Elrondmickeyl - But you need to kill the empty Battery/de first.
00:27.01mickeylseems to have worked
00:27.41ElrondYeah, cool!
00:28.26mickeylto put an end w/ all those charging problems
00:30.43ElrondThanks for fixing it, anyway. :)
00:30.58parag0nit can't be good that it doesnt charge properly after the p0 guys have had it for 2+ weeks
00:31.36mickeylwell, apparantly not all people have problems w/ charging
00:31.37ElrondHuh? What?
00:31.54*** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177)
00:31.55mickeylperhaps it's an isolated problem due to my USB configuration
00:33.28empty_mindguys, there is a goof up while mucking around with code a n00b deleted a directory from /home/openmoko/build/tmp/work/armv4t-linux . Now the system is not building. How can this be fixed ?
00:35.02mickeylif you remember what has been removed, then just rebuild that
00:35.12mickeylif not, you probably need to rebuild the whole distro
00:35.16mickeylg'night now
00:35.21empty_mindmickeyl, yaa i know what has been deleted
00:35.28empty_mindlogs show the package name
00:35.30mickeylthen bitbake -c rebuild <foo>
00:35.41empty_mindmickey|zzZZzz, thnxs
00:50.56aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Introduction]]
00:52.44*** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@84-12-81-29.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk)
00:57.04*** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@81.193.133.225)
00:57.56*** part/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@81.193.133.225)
00:59.31CIA-16openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1450 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/ (callbacks.c fingermenu.c): make figner wheel and toolbox show
01:08.58*** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z4b7e.z.pppool.de)
01:15.47*** join/#openmoko kW__ (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
01:32.15*** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net)
01:40.49*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)
01:47.56*** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@84-12-81-29.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk)
01:54.09*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
02:01.56*** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com)
02:06.11*** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@mnc04.mei.co.jp)
02:07.01*** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-29-168.cust.wildblue.net)
02:08.08*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net)
02:09.04*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
02:10.06*** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net)
02:24.19*** join/#openmoko nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@nslu2-linux/dyoung)
02:28.55*** join/#openmoko wiljo (n=vtervo@vipunen.hut.fi)
02:29.01*** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamin1 (n=danieber@72-173-29-168.cust.wildblue.net)
02:29.15*** join/#openmoko Mirv (n=tajyrink@vipunen.hut.fi)
02:30.29*** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)
02:39.07*** join/#openmoko Readon (n=xydarche@218.194.60.208)
02:39.07*** join/#openmoko Moo^ (n=moo@owla-gw.cust.eunet.fi)
02:40.06Readonwhen would openmoko release its first edition?
02:40.31cjbReadon: say something else with a question mark on the end
02:40.44*** join/#openmoko renihs (n=penguin@83-65-34-34.arsenal.xdsl-line.inode.at)
02:40.57sumasumaReadon: Readon further .... there is no release to openmoko, only devel version always
02:41.05*** join/#openmoko MagicFab_ (n=magicfab@modemcable178.77-70-69.static.videotron.ca)
02:42.26sumasumaReadon:  there are already motorola linux phone available in the market, you can really put the linux into it and develop your own apps
02:42.40sumasumai bought on costed $150
02:43.19sumasumaopenmoko is $350, will take time to revisit it sometime, when the costs reduces
02:45.27balrog-kunthere are $70 devices that can run openmoko natively too
02:45.34balrog-kunold Palms and iPaqs
02:47.42balrog-kun(not natively as from factory, but natively as in no emulation)
02:48.32Readonsumasuma, but i can't compile openmoko-devel-image totally.
02:49.05Readoni think it would have a relatively stable one, isn't it?
02:51.30*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
03:03.46*** join/#openmoko renihs (n=penguin@83-65-34-34.arsenal.xdsl-line.inode.at)
03:03.52*** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177)
03:15.43*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668682.dsl.bell.ca)
03:17.13*** join/#openmoko disguy__219 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-c8dcc48e75d76d6c)
03:18.24*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-fa120e4381fd1874)
03:32.12*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net)
03:39.50*** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-41-124-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
03:42.28CIA-16openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1451 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (detail-area.c detail-area.h main.c): Fix gtk critical in detail area.
03:43.20alorilempty_mind: cyborg
03:51.56aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[File_Open_Dialog]]
03:53.36*** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)
04:02.45*** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@65-78-28-38.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com)
04:03.45*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-205-23.sa.bigpond.net.au)
04:10.59*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)
04:12.31paulproteussumasuma, What model?  (URL?) re: Motorola phone
04:18.30*** join/#openmoko jebba (n=jebba@200.89.179.220)
04:19.59*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
04:20.39*** join/#openmoko nbd (i=root@nbd.name)
04:20.48*** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-138-217-200-102.sa.bigpond.net.au)
04:21.50*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.75.4)
04:23.11*** join/#openmoko kari21 (i=opera@c207.134.50-182.clta.globetrotter.net)
04:23.49*** part/#openmoko kari21 (i=opera@c207.134.50-182.clta.globetrotter.net)
04:29.35*** join/#openmoko kart_ (i=kartik@202.141.96.29)
04:33.46empty_mindaloril,
04:34.23*** join/#openmoko unmadindu (n=sayamind@gnu-india/admin/unmadindu)
04:39.35*** join/#openmoko Elixir- (i=mixed@cpe-66-68-172-127.austin.res.rr.com)
04:44.03*** join/#openmoko kW__ (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
04:52.16*** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p5495234c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
05:13.35*** join/#openmoko LWT001 (n=LWT@219.134.75.193)
05:17.30*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
05:21.43LWT001Hi
05:29.49*** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161)
05:30.39*** join/#openmoko ping_tu (n=ping_tt2@61.185.246.242)
05:46.49*** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@125-237-66-156.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
06:02.55*** join/#openmoko cworth (n=cworth@208.252.229.195)
06:34.14*** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at)
06:37.46*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
06:41.52*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko ping_tu (n=ping_tt2@61.185.246.242) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko nbd (i=root@nbd.name) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko renihs (n=penguin@83-65-34-34.arsenal.xdsl-line.inode.at) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@geoshell/dev/eikonos) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko buckrey (n=buck@218.111.232.41) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-183-175.cust.broadway.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko shres (n=shreyas@omega.picopeta.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko NatureTM (n=theking@unaffiliated/naturetm) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko dwery (n=dwery@nslu2-linux/dwery) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko jave (n=user@ua-83-227-131-3.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko dmp (n=dmp@unaffiliated/dmp) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko BrianHV (n=bhv1@copland.brianhv.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:41.53*** join/#openmoko voidans (i=adam@dieor.freelive.org) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]
06:42.13*** join/#openmoko _k-s[WORK]_ (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)
06:42.55*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@vnsecurity.net)
06:42.56*** join/#openmoko _Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info)
06:43.29*** join/#openmoko dmp (n=dmp@suita.chopin.edu.pl)
06:43.35*** join/#openmoko nbd (i=root@nbd.name)
06:44.08*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
06:44.23*** join/#openmoko tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi)
06:45.08*** join/#openmoko renihs (n=penguin@83-65-34-34.arsenal.xdsl-line.inode.at)
06:45.43*** join/#openmoko nab (n=nab@209.34.254.62)
06:47.20*** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@a88-112-19-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi)
06:50.11sannescounter
06:50.12alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 05:09:48 (13.215 +-7.0 days) (582)
06:52.59orospakrtick, tock.
06:54.05nab:-)
06:54.42orospakrwhat I'm hoping for is wifi in Phase 1+.
06:54.50nabIt will be nice to be able to add auto reconnect GPRS functionality for the IP storage bit.
06:55.12nabI have not quite figured out how to do that with the Rokr E2.
06:56.04nabAlso the 128 MB of system memory means you can actually many more things than compared to 48 with the Rokr E2 as well.
06:56.32nabPlus a Linux v2.6 kernel helps alot. :-)
06:56.49CMI guess we'll get some info about possible wifi very soon
06:57.19nabAlthough the 64 MB on the 770 pretty much sucks unless swap on the MMC is used.
06:57.27nabs/770/Nokia 770
06:58.06*** join/#openmoko SuN (i=unices@ip5652ade4.speed.planet.nl)
06:58.06CMapt: morning
06:58.08aptGood morning!
06:59.40nabSo lets see..
06:59.58nabI think I would most like to see a camera and voice recording.
07:00.53nabBut unless the device is plugged in with usbnet the entire time, you will probably want wifi with that.
07:01.08SpeedEvilThere is only one sane add-on.
07:01.11SpeedEvilA pony.
07:01.15CMHehe
07:01.34SpeedEvilYou can put lead-acid batteries in the saddlebags, and a USB hub with everything hanging off.
07:01.39nabI think a kick-ass media player that is "optimized" to play over both GPRS and Wifi speeds.
07:01.57nabReally this is just pre-buffering magic for the most part from the player.
07:02.09CMSpeedEvil: Saw an article about a family here in Sweden who had 2 cats, 3 dogs and a pony in their 3-room apartment. ;-)
07:02.09SpeedEvilAh yes.
07:02.17SpeedEvilGPRS mp3.
07:02.24SpeedEvilthat's gonna be a winner :)
07:02.44nabHaving a 128 MB system memory and optional SD swap will also the buffer cache to do its job.. :-)
07:02.46nabActually.
07:03.15nabOne of the biggest things I have noticed from working with iSCSI on the Rokr is the need for progress bars on everything related to struct file.
07:03.33*** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2)
07:03.50nabFor example, sometime there are long delays with the EZX filemanager when it does a stat() on each file in the framebuffer (typically six)
07:03.50CMDoes the gps on the P1 neos work at all?
07:03.59SpeedEvilYes.
07:04.02SpeedEvilHowever.
07:04.09SpeedEvilthe maker is anal.
07:04.14SpeedEvilAnd won't release source.
07:04.20nabSo over tri-band GPRS speeds this can back a bit..
07:04.23CM:(
07:04.28SpeedEvilSo, they are having to work it out themselves.
07:04.41SpeedEvilThey allegedly have had the hardware working on P0.
07:05.02CM~lart sneaky hardware vendors
07:05.03SpeedEvilHowever, nobodies worked out how to turn it on by themselves.
07:05.08nabHaving a progress bar within the filemanger and all of the typical image, audio, video players and recorders will really help the end user to use these services.
07:06.09SpeedEvilMost stuff will simply not usually be used over the network.
07:06.24nabAnd of course, it will be less problematic on the buffer cache page eviction on the Phase1 with the extra memory it has.
07:06.58CMI'll get the biggest uSD card I can (2 or 4 GB?) and fill half with mp3's
07:06.58SpeedEvilIf only as it all must be isolated as much as possible. I don't want apps touching the outside world unless they have to at a couple of pounds a meg.
07:06.59nabSpeedEvil: Yep, I remember alot of the early commerical stuff was based on the speed of the CD-ROM.
07:06.59nab:-)
07:07.44nabBut actually, as long as a media player can accept the # of seconds to prebuffer and do its thing, things go quite well.
07:08.02nabEspically when we are talking about the wifi and usbnet cases.
07:08.18CMnab: File transfer over gprs just sucks
07:08.36nabCM: I am not talking about file transfers
07:09.04nabThis is block level storage access over multiple communication links forming a multiplexing nexus.
07:09.05nab:-)
07:09.05CMnab: Then what? :)
07:09.11CMAha
07:09.19CMHehe
07:09.30nabIn the typical general purpose GPRS usage case, the user has read-only filesystem mounts.
07:09.39SpeedEvilNo he doesn't.
07:09.43nabFor thinks like the pre-indexed audio library, etc.
07:09.46SpeedEvilNot unless he's barking mad.
07:09.50nabs/thinks/things
07:10.11SpeedEvilCaching metadata off a read-only filesystem is an insane solution.
07:10.22nabNono, that is just for your media library.
07:10.41SpeedEvilIt's a nasty workaround to simply getting the file over an efficient streaming protocol from a server on the machine.
07:10.43nabThere are smaller R/W filesystem mounts used for different purposes.
07:11.03nabNasty workaround..?
07:11.21*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch)
07:11.32nabHow else do you suppose to move packets effitively for dataout operations..?
07:11.41SpeedEvilA nasty workaround to the sillyness of pretending you've got a local block device when you are really connected to it over a very slow link.
07:12.19nabThink about it, if you want to get the photos off of the device over the GPRS, what other protocol would be used to safely get data on a remote host.
07:12.33nabAnd which point said photos can be uploaded to a hosting site.
07:12.47nabFTP, HTTP..?
07:12.53nabWhat happens with the GPRS link goes away..?
07:13.03*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B9C14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
07:13.05SpeedEvilIt retries.
07:13.15SpeedEvilIt goes over a different route to the VPN server.
07:13.16nabWhat happens when the device's wifi PHY comes online..?
07:13.23nabIt retries?
07:13.31nabHow?
07:13.38nab:-)
07:13.39SpeedEvilMultiple IP routes to a VPN server.
07:13.57SpeedEvilThe route that is preferred is chosen on a metric of cost and reliability.
07:14.08*** join/#openmoko Longfield (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch)
07:14.10nabSo the application saving said photo is expected to make HTTP or FTP retry?
07:14.18nabNono.
07:14.39SpeedEvilYou don't do insane things like save photos remotely.
07:15.21SpeedEvilYou save them locally unless you have a high speed link.
07:15.21nabI am talking about on the client side for resuming interrupted transfers of data and/or taking advantage of wifi and usbnet when available.
07:15.21nabSpeedEvil: Who doesnt?
07:15.22nabSpeak for yourself. :-)
07:15.48nabThe point is that you want the application to not have to worry about taking care of any of that stuff.
07:16.11nabIt just makes things harder for the application developers to get their own pieces up and running.
07:17.07nabHaving a standardized protocol that defined things like multiple communication paths (MC/S) and active-active connection recovery (ERL=2) and being able to put this on an open platform is where the real benefit lies.
07:17.10SpeedEvilI have to go to sleep now anyway.
07:17.18SpeedEvilFeel free to code.
07:17.19nabNice talking with you again
07:17.42nabSpeedEvil: That is what is happening.
07:18.08nabProgress is happening on linux-iscsi.org
07:18.26CMHehe
07:18.36CMSo you're the iscsi guy :)
07:18.43nabThe Phase1 software package for IP services will be located at this page.
07:18.53nabCM: Hello
07:18.55nab:-)
07:19.06CMnab: I've heard you mentione before
07:19.20nabCM: It is fun to get back on IRC!
07:19.43nabIt is great to see so much progress and interest is being made.
07:20.20nabI am really getting excited to get my hands on the Phase1 devices, and have a long list of work items for improvements to the research with the Rokr E2.
07:21.00CMThe more open the phone is, the easier it is to do something really interesting and new :)
07:21.04nabThere are also a few other devs working on a GTK based UI on the maemo.org platform, and are planning on getting this up on the Phase1 devices as well.
07:22.34nabThere will also be instructions posted for developers on how to build the software for their devices, as well as using other open source iSCSI target software for their development environments.
07:23.26nabBeing able to access lots and lots of storage over usbnet, and being able to manage a smaller amount for typical daily usage is one of the key goals.
07:23.39Sup3rkiddonow..i happen to see the page at downloads.openmoko.org/sources...whats apps like abiword doing there...and do i have to build it as well for my toolchain?
07:24.17nabOne of the very first milestones will be breaking the typical 32-bit LBA addressing limitation of 2 TB on a block device.
07:24.33nabAnd go from there. :-)
07:25.26nabThe key piece to make the software usable by everyone will be the integration of human readable iSCSI aliases into the filemanager and application framework.
07:25.53nabAs well as a simple to use iSCSI and iSNS software interface written in GTK.
07:26.50nabI looking to spend time on mockups for these pieces
07:27.29nabActually, we should probably setup a mailing list for this.
07:27.32nab:-)
07:28.02nabThere has been updates to the iSCSI/GSM and Rokr_E2 entries on linux-iscsi.org
07:28.47nabEspically on the former, there are a bunch of Q/A items for those folks interested.
07:29.14nabcounter
07:29.15alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 04:30:45 (13.188 +-7.0 days) (583)
07:29.19nabVery exciting. :-)
07:32.10nabI am thinking that the first openmoko.org / linux-iscsi.org project could be mobile audio library and GPS map import using iSNS and SLP discovery.
07:32.38alorilCM: hmm..did that screen have touch recognition or did it have camera too?  (referring to "With all your spell weaving handwaving talk you must love this screen: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6jLmwjN4wwE ;)  ")
07:33.09nabFor the former, the question really becomes tuning on the application side and enough virtual memory to make the whole thing work.
07:33.56nabAnd when we are talking mp3 or equivant audio, this is not a huge requirement to play successfully.
07:34.20nabEspically when the media player can prebuffer up next audio tracks in the playlist continiously.
07:34.35CMaloril: I don't really know how it works, but it's "touch" senstitve within 15cm or sor
07:34.45CMs/sor/so./
07:35.48*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
07:36.27Tvnab: I think yacc did the math and ended up saying that gprs as in neo1973 can't stream mp3 fast enough
07:38.12yaccTv: that's right ;)
07:38.17alorilCM: there was no multitouch demo, anyway could be interesting start
07:38.30yaccTv: basically, the best you can expect is a slow POTS-style modem performance.
07:38.38nabCorrect
07:38.45yaccTv: That's to slow for mp3.
07:38.54nabI have seen 3k on tri-band GPRS with the Rokr E2.
07:39.01Tvso all you can do is ipod-like sync when home
07:39.14yaccCombined with the small built-in flash, you cannot even buffer enough to make sense.
07:39.19Tvdoesn't need plugging in, just bt
07:39.36yaccnab: I've seen up to 5K download in perfect conditions.
07:39.38Tvwell the SD can do 2GB, right
07:39.41nabyacc: That is where the players come in.
07:39.41nab:-)
07:39.58nabAs long as you can wait for the first track, and the players can keep buffering, you are good to go
07:40.16nabWe are only talking a few MB of buffer cache here.
07:40.49nabKeep in mind again, the audio case is one that does require a fair amount of tuning.
07:41.15nabBut it has been done already on the Rokr E2.
07:41.16nab:-)
07:41.19yaccnab: Well, 5KB/s is in perfect situations. And mp3 are usually encoded at 128kbps == 16KB/s or more.
07:41.50nabThe only problem with that platform is that: Their player (at least as far as I can tell) based on Helix cannot change its 'seconds of prebuffer'
07:42.06yaccSo even with a perfect download which you won't have if you start moving around downtown, you'll still need 2.5 real-life seconds to fetch one second of music.
07:42.28yaccnab: yeah, you can try reencoding with something more aggressive than mp3 ;)
07:42.45nabThat combined with the fact that the Rokr E2 only has the 48 MB of system memory, so the buffer cache page eviction gets triggerd very fast, not to mention with the overhead of having to keep opera open for the GPRS link, et al.
07:42.46Tvbut at that point I'm just going to use my ipod..
07:42.51nabyacc: :-)
07:43.06nabyacc: That would be an ideal solution as well.
07:43.29CMI'll use the Neo instead of an iPod
07:43.40nabBut that might be hard for non-tech folks unless the software package does all of this for them.
07:43.55nabSo I think that we need to plan for worst case with mp3s and go from there.
07:44.17yaccnab: Worse the package must support MacOS, Windows and Linux for an reencoding host, PLUS you might have to watchout for patents that are dense in this area :(
07:44.51nabyacc: Yikes, it would have to be a better iTunes than iTuns.
07:44.59naber iTunes, tough act to follow.
07:45.08Tvwhat I see could happen
07:45.14nabLets see, what else.
07:45.26Tvis a 500MB song library that automatically changes all the time
07:45.29Tvslower than realtime
07:45.38Tvbut still nicer than having to sync an ipod all the time
07:46.02nabTv: The device would be updating its media index when it is plugged at home.
07:46.07yaccTv: that persumes an MicroSD add-on, plus a data flatrate.
07:46.25Tvyacc: both doable for me at least in .fi, dunno about US
07:46.27yaccTv: you do know that you can count the countries with data flatrates available on the fingers of your hand?
07:46.34Tv.fi!
07:46.36Tv10 EUR/mo!
07:46.41Tvall move in ;)
07:46.46yacc.de: 39EUR/mo.
07:47.04yaccbtw, I had the impression that you are building yourself a flat in ca? *g*
07:47.14Tvyah
07:47.17nabYes. ;_0
07:47.32nabOtherwise development would be going alot slower.
07:47.41yaccOTOH there seems to be flatrates in the US too, see the mailing list ;)
07:47.52buz.ch now has data flats too, 2EUR for every day you transfer any data
07:48.25buzif you dont transfer any, you dont pay
07:48.32buzsort of day flat ;)
07:48.48nabSo lets see..
07:49.22buzas for interface, amarok 2.0 will run on win,osx,linux
07:49.42buzand easily talks to just about every mp3 player i have seen
07:50.00nabThe original iSCSI tests used a 60 second Nopout + NopIn keep alive mechinism containg 48 byte header + 4 byte payload and 48 byte header respectively.
07:50.12*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)
07:50.16yaccWell, you should start first with an encoder that can give you sensible sound with say 3-5KB/s.
07:50.29buzthere is no such encoder
07:51.03nabTake into account the realtive response, and you have 200 bytes transfered of application later traffic per second with no active data IO.
07:51.04yaccbuz: Really? Define "sensible" as on-the-run headphones quality in a busy subway
07:51.14CMFor voice only there is, but not music I think..
07:51.23buzeven 128kbit mp3 sounds lousy
07:51.38*** join/#openmoko Dodji_ (n=dodji@torimasen.com)
07:51.43yaccbuz: Well, that depends upon your encoder, and probably on your hearing.
07:51.48nabI imagine when you are not using the iSCSI storage, some logic could be added for 'on-demand' usage to save on the packet cost.
07:51.55buzyacc: well i have sennheiser deep in ear headphones, they just about halve the outside noise
07:51.58*** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-208-132.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)
07:52.24yaccbuz: yeah, but I'll do a bet: These won't come with the standard Neo package ;)
07:52.26buzeven at best lame settings, 128kbit sounds somehow i don't know, unsharp?
07:52.36buzyacc: actually they have insulating ones on the pic
07:53.08yaccok, guys, I still need to pick up my laptop now, and drive to BMW ;)
07:53.33yaccAnd that means a 400km drive :(
07:54.08buzi thought BMW - "Freude am Fahren"
07:54.18nabyacc: Have a good one!
07:54.30nabActually, I suppose it is getting late here on the west coast..
07:54.46yaccbuz: Well, first I drive a Passat. ;)
07:55.46yaccSecond: the weather is not perfect. (yacc, world champion in understatements, excluding Politicians ;) )
07:56.03yaccWell, bye for the moment.
07:57.06buzgood trip then
07:57.30buzi wonder if expansys, purveyor of all things mobile, might be EU distributor?
07:57.37buzafter all, they are shipping all over europe
07:58.48*** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@188-116-dyn.ipact.nl)
08:03.34*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B9C14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
08:05.41*** join/#openmoko dotmef (n=mef@mx1.bitwise.org)
08:07.11*** join/#openmoko kW__ (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
08:10.43*** join/#openmoko jebba (n=jebba@220-179-89-200.fibertel.com.ar)
08:11.08*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.75.4)
08:15.21*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B9C14.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
08:16.06Hopscotchgood morning
08:23.36*** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69)
08:23.43xkr47gug
08:28.12aevin'morning, Hopscotch
08:28.42*** join/#openmoko kW__ (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
08:28.51CIA-16openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1452 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (7 files):
08:28.51CIA-16openmoko: Create a new message membership window instread of hide the original
08:28.51CIA-16openmoko: Remove some compile warnings
08:30.09*** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz)
08:30.18hrwmorning
08:30.22hrwhi pavelm
08:30.28pavelmHello, hrw
08:30.50hrwpavelm: can you create release of tui? I will add it into OE then
08:30.57aevincounter
08:30.58alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 03:29:02 (13.145 +-7.0 days) (584)
08:31.20aevinwow. 2 weeks +/-
08:31.44hrwyeah.. 2 weeks to get neo without sidetone
08:32.47pavelmhrw: Really? I can make a tarball, but are you sure you want to make it go anywhere?
08:32.59aevinyes, that's GTA01Bv4 or whatever it's called?
08:33.05hrwaevin: yes
08:33.40hrwpavelm: so it is not usable tool?
08:34.20aevinand later there'll be GTA01BWVv1 !! -- the first Neo with bluetooth, wifi and V12!!
08:34.29hrw;DDDD
08:34.43pavelmhrw: It is usable tool -- for me anyway.
08:34.57pavelmhrw: Ok, I'll create you a tarball.
08:35.22hrwpavelm: and makefile without '-static'?
08:36.24*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-252-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
08:36.37pavelmI never compiled it without -static; but I guess that is not its biggest problem.
08:36.50*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
08:37.05pavelm...it works on openmoko, but you have to imagine rxvt screen split to 9 buttons, and control it by pressing them.
08:37.22hrwso thats how it works..
08:38.09pavelm....still interested?
08:39.50*** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl)
08:40.19hrwpavelm: first will test recent openmoko-dialer then
08:40.26hrw;D
08:41.20pavelmhrw: If you get openmoko-dialer to work, let me know. So far it crashed on me when trying to press "dial" button.
08:44.31CMpavelm: I think mickeyl used it to call yesterday
08:45.43pavelmCM: does it work with gsmd, as originally designed?
08:46.11CMI think so, but with some ugly hacks
08:48.01pavelmanyway tui is at http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pavel/outgoing/tui-0.0.tgz
08:50.55hrwpavelm: why you do not use sf.net release stuff/
08:50.57hrw?
08:51.21pavelmhrw: I have not figured out how to use it :-(
08:51.57aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[User:Mandarino]] [[FAQ/de]] [[Neo1973_Battery]] [[Neo1973_Battery/de]] [[Battery/de]]
08:53.45hrw;(
08:54.19hrwpavelm: which thinkpad you have?
08:56.42pavelmhrw: x60.
08:56.46*** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-144-227.telkomadsl.co.za)
08:58.02hrwpavelm: no one at suse.cz want to sell x31/x32? :D
08:58.55pavelmhrw: We have one nice x32 there... but it is suse's.
08:59.10pavelmhrw: but we are still searching for hackers ;-)
09:00.15hrwpavelm: I like debian
09:00.34pavelmhrw: that's okay, I run debian, too... ;-)
09:01.00pavelmhrw: (On my primary machine, anyway, but don't tell anyone :-)
09:01.15pavelmhrw: If you want _nice notebook_, get olpc.
09:01.27pavelmhrw: oe on it is going to be usable, unlike sugar.
09:03.07*** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-144-227.telkomadsl.co.za)
09:05.00*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
09:05.59hrwpavelm: too small keys
09:06.31pavelmhrw: okay, keyboard is ugly, but maybe good enough on the road.
09:06.40pavelmhrw: and you connect usb keyboard on desktop.
09:08.44*** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at)
09:08.59*** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at)
09:13.03sumasumamokomakefile breaks when you are behind a proxy !
09:13.03pavelmI'd like to add rxvt to home screen on openmoko...
09:13.23pavelm...where do I find the file hierarchy describing it?
09:14.57pavelm...got it, /usr/share/applications/
09:15.41hrwpavelm: install gpe-terminal
09:15.56hrwsumasuma: what break?
09:16.41pavelmhrw: I do not think this openmoko is in state where installing ipkg would be good idea.
09:17.04pavelmhrw: I just installed some snapshot from downloads.openmoko.../tmp
09:17.19pavelmhrw: I wonder how wise it would be to just take spitz userland and run it there?
09:17.26*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net)
09:18.25hrwit is not wise
09:19.12koensumasuma: no it doesn't
09:19.22koensumasuma: You didn't read GettingStarted on how to use it behind a proxy
09:20.19pavelmhrw: Okay, given that I'm too impatient to wait for phase1, and not enough hacker to get mokomakefile to work... what should I do?
09:20.30*** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch)
09:20.43hrww8
09:20.51pavelm:-)
09:23.57pavelmAny idea when oz-3.5.5 is expected?
09:24.10hrwnever?
09:24.11*** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher)
09:24.55*** join/#openmoko disguy__219 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-f3a62cc95568dbcf)
09:25.32pavelmhrw: Can you elaborate? I guess someone should update http://openzaurus.linuxtogo.org/wordpress/ page, then.
09:25.45pavelmhrw: Time to update to oz-3.5.4.1 on my spitz, then...
09:28.22*** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
09:29.17hrwpavelm: due to lack of time 3.5.5 has no test release
09:30.35pavelmhrw: no test release, or you scrapped plans to do 3.5.5 altogether?
09:31.14pavelm(I guess I should say "thank you" for oz work).
09:32.21hrwshit. my neo stuck on generating key for dropbear for too long...
09:35.15*** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.99.50)
09:42.25*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-b0c004a5998d370d)
09:44.17*** join/#openmoko SP8472 (i=8472@dslb-084-056-253-148.pools.arcor-ip.net)
09:51.57aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Current_events]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
09:56.17*** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57a2fb1d.dip.t-dialin.net)
09:56.29TRIsoftmorning
09:56.40koenhey TRIsoft
09:56.44hrwhi Mac
09:57.49TRIsoftHi koen and hrw. Missed something important in the last two days ?
09:58.07koenwe can actually make phonecalls now :)
09:58.23TRIsoftFrom console or is the dialer app running ? ;-)
09:58.28koendialer
09:58.30koensee http://planet.openmoko.org/ :)
09:59.11TRIsoftHey, looks nice. Good job !
09:59.47hrwthat guy which designed power button should be shoot
09:59.49*** join/#openmoko LarstiQ (n=larstiq@cust.7.157.adsl.cistron.nl)
10:01.32*** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-125-231-250.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
10:02.37hrwkoen: with angstrom images I do not see a way to add onscreen keyboard
10:02.53koen?
10:02.57koenit's present by default
10:03.19hrwkoen: in mb-panel2??
10:03.28koenyes
10:03.42koenhrw: http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/images/neo-calling.png
10:03.47koenit's the white rectangle
10:03.53*** join/#openmoko _k-s[WORK]_ (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)
10:04.07hrwkoen: not here ;(
10:04.23hrwmatchbox-panel --start-applets=showdesktop,systray,windowselector --end-applets=openmoko-panel-demo-simple,openmoko-panel-battery,o
10:04.32hrwthats what I got
10:04.43hrwmatchbox-panel --start-applets=showdesktop,systray,windowselector --end-applets=openmoko-panel-demo-simple,openmoko-panel-battery,openmoko-panel-clock,openmoko-panel-gsm &
10:04.46hrwto be exact
10:04.49koenscroll down a bit in the session file
10:04.57koenmbinputmgr &
10:05.16hrwit does not work here
10:05.44koen*lightbulb*
10:05.50koendo you have matchbox-keyboard installed?
10:06.22hrwnope
10:06.31hrwit was not present in tasks
10:06.50koenRDEPENDS_task-openmoko-demo = "\
10:06.50koen<PROTECTED>
10:06.50koen<PROTECTED>
10:06.54*** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-159-22-229.range81-159.btcentralplus.com)
10:07.16hrwok.
10:07.21koenhrw: ah, I figured it out
10:07.31koenhrw: I have installed openmoko-devel-image
10:07.56koenwhich has task-openmoko-demo
10:08.06hrwI have my version of openmoko-image (with added stuff)
10:08.24koenipkg install task-openmoko-demo
10:10.27hrw~lart usbnet
10:11.39koenhrw: ok, I 'fixed' openmoko-image in OE
10:11.47hrwthx
10:11.54hrwERROR: Cannot satisfy the following dependencies for task-openmoko-demo: libcairo2 (>= 1.4.2)
10:11.57hrw;D
10:12.00*** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=test@59.176.103.149)
10:13.07hrwkoen: can you?
10:13.34empty_mindlooks like pyhton on openmoko is a hot property, every second guy i talk to wants to port python on openmoko
10:13.53koenhrw: working on it :)
10:14.30empty_mindone question, if google SoC selects pyhton porting as a project, do i get to mentor the kids ?
10:15.09hrwempty_mind: join SoC as mentor?
10:16.31empty_mindhrw, i am already mentoring a second year engg. kid who has joined the project as junior developer
10:18.32*** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@147.162.137.251)
10:20.46koenhrw: try now
10:21.18*** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net)
10:21.25koenhrw: and could you ask the o-hand dudes to fix (openmoko-)dates so they don't depend on each other?
10:21.41hrwkoen: I will look at it as OH guy
10:22.27hrwkoen: its bug in packaging probably
10:22.38hrwI'm checking now
10:23.08pavelmempty: Yep, python is important... for "scripting with gui".
10:25.38hrwtime to exchange battery...
10:26.13*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)
10:26.18Elrondhrw - Hi! :)
10:28.19hrwnon-original batteries roxx
10:29.28pavelmhrw: I did not have good experience with them.
10:30.47hrwpavelm: neo charging is .... or ....
10:33.16*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-1-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
10:33.30guaquaempty_mind: has someone applied for the python work as soc project?
10:33.49pavelmhrw: I guess using nokia as a charger is nice ;-).
10:34.20hrwpavelm: I use 3rdparty battery charger
10:34.21*** join/#openmoko LWT001 (n=LWT@219.134.75.193)
10:34.28empty_mindguaqua, i got personal email asking for help in drafting the SoC application for python porting
10:34.42guaquaokay
10:34.56empty_mindguaqua, as i have no experience of SoC i could not him him much
10:35.09hrwPackaged contents of libgtkdatesview into /home/hrw/devel/build/openmoko/tmp/deploy/glibc/ipk/armv4t/libgtkdatesview_0.3.1-r2_armv4t.ipk
10:35.31empty_mindguaqua, sadly SoC started the year i finished the college, so i could never make money through SoC or join Google
10:35.43guaqua:(
10:36.28pavelmhrw: Such thing exists for nokia batteries? Wow
10:38.07Elrondcounter
10:38.07alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 6 days 01:21:52 (13.057 +-7.0 days) (585)
10:39.32empty_mindaloril, what is 585 ? number of orders ?
10:39.42koennumber of times the script was called
10:41.44hrwpavelm: I paid <2 EUR for it
10:42.13hrwkoen: dates<>openmoko-dates is more complicated even
10:42.33pavelmhrw: Be sure not to leave it plugged in when you are not watching it, then :-)
10:42.38koenhrw: that's why I asked you :)
10:42.44hrw;D
10:43.35*** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21)
10:51.02*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
10:59.32*** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-183-081.pools.arcor-ip.net)
11:08.55*** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)
11:10.36*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net)
11:14.37*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)
11:16.14*** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host81-151-189-16.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)
11:17.03*** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net)
11:19.48florianhi zecke
11:20.12*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net)
11:20.55Stephmwlol
11:21.03Stephmwwhich power jack size?
11:21.36florianStephmw: its not the jack, i use my nokia bluetooth GPS as a charger :-)
11:22.54zeckeLaF0rge: thaks I received the data
11:23.23Stephmwflorian: I'm gonna need a photo to understand - can't get my head round that ;)
11:24.22greentuxhi
11:24.33florianStephmw: its trivial... the battery is almost the same
11:24.36florianhi greentux
11:24.43*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178253187.adsl.alicedsl.de)
11:25.36Stephmwflorian: AHHHH
11:25.43Stephmwflorian: now I get you
11:25.52Stephmwflorian: I do the same thing at work
11:26.07Stephmwflorian: number of protos' software just have buggy charging
11:26.22pavelmunfortunately moko battery does not work in nokia cellphone :-(
11:26.48florianpavelm: oh
11:26.48pavelmmy nokia battery is old and broken, while moko has nice, new 1200mAh battery ;-)
11:27.29florianluckily my ld-3g charges it even if it is flat... in contrast to the neo
11:28.21Stephmwaye, occasionally you have to re-calibrate the handsets
11:29.36hrwpavelm: discharge neo and then talk ;)
11:30.14pavelmhrw: It was so dead it entered the reboot loop, already. I do not want to kill my neo on purpose, but I think I was lucky.
11:38.48*** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@feldconf.feld.cvut.cz)
11:39.32*** join/#openmoko ruoso (n=ruoso@194.65.5.235)
11:44.46*** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492987F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
11:46.02*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.62.65)
11:51.25CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1453 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/gtk-stock/ (63 files): * Rename files to match gtk+ stock filenames
11:51.52CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1454 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/gtk-stock/gtk-clean.svg: * Remove bogus file
11:51.57aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Summer_of_code]]
11:56.48*** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@213.207.210.231)
11:59.48balrog-kundoes someone have an idea what the LM4857 may be returning when you *read* from it through i2c?
12:00.10balrog-kunthere's only writing described in the datasheet
12:03.07*** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=nrwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby)
12:03.22balrog-kunor will it not ACK the address at all if you try to read?
12:04.50CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1455 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/gtk-stock/ (94 files): * Rename more files to gtk+ stock names
12:05.02pavelmbalrog: Hard to say. i2c chips are usually ugly hacks...
12:05.22philippebalrog-kun: in the best case you will get back what you wrote.
12:06.34CMAnyone has a guess what kind of battery time to expect for a P1 device?
12:07.18balrog-kuni could check it if i had an u-boot cmdline access to a Neo :/
12:07.21koenCM: 2 or 3 days standby iirc
12:07.29balrog-kuni will go for the not ACK option i guess
12:07.32CMkoen: Oh, nice :)
12:07.46*** join/#openmoko Denis (n=denis@212.98.167.86)
12:09.49*** join/#openmoko krau (n=Claudio@200.184.118.141)
12:13.48TobiX. o O ( Only 4 SoC applications for OpenMoko? I'm surprised... )
12:14.47*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-45625502d8e13fdf)
12:16.06*** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159)
12:17.42*** join/#openmoko disguy__219 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-0edddeffb704240b)
12:23.44hrwkoen: you found how to create events?
12:24.24koenhrw: yes, rsync ~.evolution/ from your host
12:24.26alphaonehrw Tap and drag
12:26.09*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-252-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
12:27.20*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca)
12:31.41*** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161)
12:33.49CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1456 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/ (209 files in 5 dirs): * Move stock icons into icon theme
12:37.25philippeYay! my Neo finally arrived!
12:37.34koenphilippe: congrats
12:38.14philippeI hope customs did not lose stuff as they opened it.
12:43.36alpi think mine got sent to my old address, i had no idea it would be delayed so much that i'd be moving out
12:45.18*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@vnsecurity.net)
12:46.13philippeohh... no debug board :-(
12:46.21*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch)
12:46.37hrwphilippe: some devs did not get it
12:47.13hrwphilippe: too bad that you got marked as such ;(
12:47.42philippehrw: I know. It might have been very useful as I am probably the only one in Finland to have one...
12:48.28hrwphilippe: pester coreteam to send you debugboard with p1 phone
12:49.20philippehrw: that's an idea :-)
12:49.46koenthe sidetone isn't too bad
12:51.57aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Documentation]]
12:53.56*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)
12:54.50*** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132)
12:55.27philippeWow! I am impressed by the screen.. Really sharp. Better than my n800
12:55.40koen50 more dots per inch
12:55.49Sup3rkiddoyou guys are making me jealous ;(
12:56.22TobiXcounter
12:56.22alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 23:03:38 (12.961 +-7.0 days) (586)
12:56.58TobiX:( - I can't wait...
12:57.53mjroo, two weeks
12:59.50*** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo)
13:06.54*** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at)
13:08.07*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
13:09.39*** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com)
13:09.54*** join/#openmoko ewanm89 (n=ewanm89@host81-151-189-16.range81-151.btcentralplus.com)
13:15.33*** join/#openmoko Matt_x (n=chatzill@pool-71-161-222-252.burl.east.verizon.net)
13:20.23*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)
13:21.46*** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com)
13:24.12*** join/#openmoko kW (n=kwkw@port4.gesell.servers.medium.net)
13:28.45DenisBYI'm trying to run openmoko on x86 arch, but got error: "GdkPixbuf-WARNING **: Can not open pixbuf loader module file '/etc/gtk-2.0/gdk-pixbuf.loaders': No such file or directory"
13:31.24*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.17.188)
13:31.55koenDenisBY: sounds like you need to install some pixbufloaders
13:32.30*** join/#openmoko Xyrouz (n=Xyrouz@0x3e42caa9.adsl.cybercity.dk)
13:32.35DenisBYyes, but I'm in chrooted env in openmoko :)
13:32.59*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@194.42.125.16)
13:33.21prpplaguekoen: ping
13:33.33koenprpplague: pong!
13:33.49prpplaguekoen: hey, i need your opinion on something
13:34.12prpplaguekoen: working with a less than perfect documentation
13:34.35prpplaguekoen: where an address is listed as "8030_807f"
13:34.54prpplaguekoen: would you take that to be 8030 thru 807f ?
13:35.13prpplaguekoen: normally i see that kind of notation with a "-" or ":"
13:35.21koen- or : would be better
13:35.22prpplaguekoen: never seen one with a "_"
13:35.48prpplaguekoen: yea
13:36.07*** join/#openmoko disguy__219 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-6680477ed7aa964e)
13:36.27prpplaguekoen: i suspect that it was translated badly
13:37.49koenI would prefer :
13:38.10*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-02c823cac4649a88)
13:38.18prpplaguekoen: yea, thats what i prefer seeing as well, the question is what these people intended to say
13:38.47CIA-16openmoko: 03mickey * r1457 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-base/ (files/session openmoko-common_svn.bb openmoko-session_svn.bb):
13:38.47CIA-16openmoko: oe/openmoko-session: launch dialer in background within session file (taken from OE)
13:38.47CIA-16openmoko: NOTE: starting dialer from main menu is just a workaround until the AUX button handling is done
13:39.18hrwso AUX will call dialer?
13:39.19CIA-16openmoko: 03mickey * r1458 10/trunk/oe/packages/sysvinit/sysvinit_2.86.bb: oe/sysvinit: bump PR
13:40.18mickey|zzZZzzhrw: yes
13:40.27mickey|zzZZzzaux tap
13:40.31mickey|zzZZzzaux hold will open menu
13:40.49mickey|zzZZzzwith "open dialer, change profile, and some additional things"
13:40.52koenmickey|zzZZzz: should the dialer be launched by default?
13:41.12mickey|zzZZzzyou mean the dialer UI?
13:41.12koenreceiving calls is a bit hard without :)
13:41.17mickey|zzZZzzah
13:41.19mickey|zzZZzzyes, of course
13:41.26mickey|zzZZzzwe consider it being a daemon
13:41.42mickey|zzZZzzit will always handle most of the phone part
13:41.45mickey|zzZZzzso it needs to run
13:42.07mickey|zzZZzzon incoming call it should bring itself into the foreground
13:42.10mickey|zzZZzzdunno whether it does that yet
13:42.16TRIsoftMickey is able to answer while sleeping :-O
13:42.23mickey|busymorning TRIsoft
13:42.27TRIsoftmorning :D
13:42.40hrwmickey|busy: no chance to get better power button?
13:42.52mickey|busyhrw: -> bugzilla
13:42.53mickey|busyHardware
13:43.00mickey|busyButton Quality
13:43.02mickey|busyplease add
13:43.05hrwok
13:43.11mickey|busyI will support this request
13:43.40mickey|busythere might be a chance left to get this in the p1 devices
13:43.55zecke|studymickey|busy: ho, I will commit the rss reader tonight
13:44.01mickey|busyzecke|study: cool!
13:44.15zecke|studymickey|busy: for the bindings I will wait until gforge is fixed
13:44.17mickey|busyzecke|study: let's show the shanghai devels how a real app using the framework can look like :)
13:44.21mickey|busyzecke|study: agreed
13:44.49zecke|studymickey|busy: and I need to look into the concept of boxing or add a method to moko_tree_view to resize my columns properly
13:44.58zecke|studymickey|busy: gtk_tree_view_columns_autosize is stupid...
13:45.14koenmickey|busy: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=296 needs to get solved before p2
13:45.43mickey|busykoen: you bet
13:49.28hrwmy neo freezed again
13:49.40Sup3rkiddohrw: froze :p
13:49.54hrwSup3rkiddo: okej
13:50.06koenroot@fic-gta01:~$ uptime
13:50.06koen<PROTECTED>
13:50.28hrwuptime suxx
13:50.34hrw14:49 hrw@home:~$ uptime 14:50:20 up 2 days,  4:26,  1 user,  load average: 0.25, 0.45, 0.70
13:50.47hrwmachine was enabled 6h ago
13:50.53alphaoneheh
13:51.48alphaonehrw: How did it freeze?
13:51.57aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Translation]] [[Talk:Translation]]
13:52.11hrwalphaone: no reaction to screen or usbnet
13:52.11alphaoneNever had that after the 64M bug was fixed
13:52.17alphaoneOuch
13:52.30hrwalphaone: 64M need uboot update?
13:52.47koenyes
13:52.58hrwthen you know why
13:53.25alphaoneOne of the address pins for the ram wasn't configured as such
13:53.26hrwuboot + dfu-util does not match for me
13:53.55koenhrw: devirginator won't work
13:54.12hrwkoen: really? I rescued two phones with it
13:54.38alphaonehrw: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245
13:54.40alphaoneThat's the bug
13:54.50koenhrw: the new uboot reports different partition names
13:55.27mickey|busyFYI: I took two hires photos of a silver/black Neo1973 and uploaded them to http://people.openmoko.org/mickey/images/
13:56.07*** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com)
13:56.17philippekoen: no way to get a new uboot flashed without debug board I guess...
13:56.32mickey|busyDFU flashes new uboots very nice
13:56.32koenphilippe: dfu-util is what I use
14:00.34*** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt)
14:00.34*** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> {www|wiki|bugzilla|planet|projects|lists|svn|svnweb } .openmoko.org | You can buy it around the end of this month for $350, see the wiki. Mass market in September.
14:00.35koenmickey|busy: sure, give me a few minutes
14:00.37philippehrw: black yes :-)
14:00.40mickey|busythanks a lot!
14:02.29*** part/#openmoko andreychek (n=eric@ion.openthoughthosting.com)
14:02.46hrwOK. I have 20070321 u-boot
14:04.05zecke|studymickey|busy: moko-themes broke
14:04.28mickey|busywhy/how?
14:04.54stefan_schmidtmickey|busy: Book cover... (/me makes a note about looking on opensource press about new books in the next months)
14:06.57mickey|busystefan_schmidt: don't hold your breath. i'm starting to write in April
14:07.04mickey|busyrelease not before 2008
14:07.05*** join/#openmoko em_a (n=em@host229-139-dynamic.60-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
14:07.24stefan_schmidtmickey|busy: heh, ok.
14:08.46hrwmickey|busy: Bug 300 has been added to the database
14:09.38zecke|studymickey|busy: #297,#299 (harald did not yet update svn on buildhost-old)
14:10.08mickey|busyah, icon-theme
14:10.11mickey|busythat's something else
14:10.22mickey|busyi guess thos is currently working on that
14:11.02mickey|busyzecke|study: would it be possible to get the log.do_<foo> output w/ the bug entries?
14:11.12mickey|busy(as attachement)
14:11.40mickey|busyso we could easily (more or less) see what's wrong
14:11.59mickey|busyhrw: thanks
14:11.59zecke|studymickey|busy: I will check why the code fails to do that
14:13.47mickey|busythanks
14:13.50mickey|busycommented on #300
14:14.22mickey|busyhmm
14:14.33hrwthx
14:14.40zecke|studymickey|busy: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=252 hmm attaching logs worked there
14:17.20*** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-41-115-20.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
14:17.46mickey|busyright
14:17.49mickey|busyit stopped doing that
14:18.02*** join/#openmoko h_ivanov (n=hivanov@213.222.54.133)
14:19.41h_ivanovhi all! i want to participate in the google SoC program, and I'm currently considering the possibilty to write something for open moko
14:20.50h_ivanovi personally think that 'Wishlist:context based to-do list' task is very interesting one. however, i haven't touched anything related to openmoko up to now.
14:20.53ewanm89I would like to but I'll have to wait till next year!
14:22.14h_ivanovany hints for some startup read? the task seems intriguing... but all i have worked with until now is kde/c++/qt development (and some basic c programs which don't count)
14:22.15alorilh_ivanov: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
14:25.24*** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com)
14:25.32h_ivanovso everything you write is gtk (pure c), right?
14:25.49hrwgtkmm will be also accepted I think
14:26.11zecke|studyh_ivanov: as long as it works on an ARM and has not too many dependencies it will be acceptable
14:26.37zecke|studyh_ivanov: e.g. objective-c or c++  are acceptable choiches, C is preferred though
14:27.05unknown_lamerwhen I get mine I'm getting guile + gnome-guile up
14:27.07h_ivanovi've been using qt for up to 2 years now, can someone tell me if there are some frapant differences with gtk?
14:27.36h_ivanovfrom what i've seen from the tutorial it's not such a big deal to learn the 'other side'
14:27.37CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1459 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/icons/openmoko-standard/scalable/ (Makefile.am stock/Makefile.am): * Add missing makefiles
14:28.21zecke|studyh_ivanov: both mickey and me are Qt hackers
14:28.40h_ivanovzecke|study: so, is there any hope in running qt things on moko?
14:28.41h_ivanovor not?
14:28.49mickey|busyshort-run: no
14:28.51mickey|busymid-run: yes
14:28.54zecke|studyh_ivanov: I'm just learning Gtk+
14:29.34Sup3rkiddoh_ivanov: gtk is quite easy mate
14:30.00h_ivanovok, that's learnable, from what i've seen, there are so many similarities
14:30.20h_ivanovjust i haven't used to program graphical things in pure c
14:30.36mickey|busytechnically it's pure C, conceptually it's OO
14:30.37h_ivanovhowever, as i said before, the idea seems very intriguing
14:30.43mickey|busyso the difference is not really far
14:30.48mickey|busys/far/huge/
14:31.30Sup3rkiddoh_ivanov: not a big deal....if you are from qt, gtk should be a piece of cake...
14:32.38*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)
14:32.57Elrond~change 350 usd to eur
14:33.13h_ivanovso, how can you folks make me think of working for open moko the most fun and enjoyable thing to do in my spare time? :) right now i'm trying to find out the following things:
14:33.28Sup3rkiddocan anyone tell me give me a rough estimate about the number of packages getting downloaded for the toolchain
14:33.35*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)
14:34.20h_ivanovfirst, are there any parts ready (besides some widgets)? the ideas for functionality suggest a pile of code should be written (gps-based positioning is the most scary part of all)
14:34.39h_ivanov(the other functionality won't be so hard to implement, though)
14:35.09hrwsomeone already used neo usbhost?
14:35.14*** join/#openmoko rox (n=rox@84-255-206-50.dynamic.dsl.t-2.net)
14:36.07Sup3rkiddohmm...the MokoMakefile seems to be skipping packages that didnt install cleanly the first time
14:37.52koenSup3rkiddo: the makefile doesn't skip anything
14:39.36Sup3rkiddokoen: hmm...for example the last time it didnt compile gtk but complained about some missing patch...i did the usual routine when such things happen, and now it has started work with uboot...fine with me if thats normal :D
14:40.06koenSup3rkiddo: the makefile is only a tool to aid you setting up your environment
14:40.11koennothing more, nothing less
14:40.40Sup3rkiddokoen: ah ok...maybe i should do RTFM first ;P
14:41.12koenSup3rkiddo: if you can read the wiki, you don't need the makefile
14:41.41Sup3rkiddokoen: oh!..i will take a look...thanks
14:42.03koenlike I said: "the makefile is only a tool to aid you setting up your environment"
14:42.17CMSup3rkiddo: Also, the makefile will redo things like kernel and uboot when svn is updated, then continute where it stopped last time
14:42.21Sup3rkiddokoen: yup...
14:42.27Sup3rkiddoCM: ah...ok..
14:42.29CMAt least that's what happened for me
14:42.48koenCM: I think that's the bitbake patch openmoko uses, not the makefile
14:43.13Sup3rkiddovow..Makefile causes confusion ;P
14:44.04*** join/#openmoko jaytee (n=jt@jtrostel.gtri.gatech.edu)
14:44.06CMkoen: Guess I should say "When the makefile calls bitbake.." instead ;)
14:44.58koenmickey|busy: any short term plans for a 'moko-launcher' that initializes gtk+, fontconfig, pango, etc?
14:45.41Sup3rkiddoCM: any idea about the number of tarballs getting downloaded in the 'sources/'...curious to know my progress "Setting up my environment"
14:46.13mickey|busykoen: you mean quick-launch-style? yes, some plans in the back of my mind, but nothing concrete yet
14:46.22CMSup3rkiddo: I can check :)
14:46.26mickey|busykoen: would you like to add a feature-wish bug entry for that?
14:46.32mickey|busykoen: we could brainstorm a bit there
14:46.35mickey|busybbiab
14:46.37Sup3rkiddoCM: great
14:46.39*** join/#openmoko abraxa__ (n=abraxa@pD95FD1CD.dip.t-dialin.net)
14:46.42koenmickey|busy: there's a thread on the cairo list discussing a small program to initialize stuff
14:48.15DenisBYit's ok if rootfs is mounting as ro?
14:48.34DenisBYI'm trying to run it under vmware
14:48.46jayteewhat sort of battery life are people seeing so far?  (I know the standby consumption is being improved, but ...)
14:48.47aloriljaytee: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
14:49.06SpeedEvilThe current version has major hardware bugs.
14:49.16SpeedEvilThat affect the standby time.
14:49.20CMSup3rkiddo: I seem to have 216 files in the /sources/ folder and a few more in the svn and git folders in there
14:49.24koenmickey|busy: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=301
14:49.28SpeedEvilCurrently it lasts around 5.5 hours with the backlight on.
14:49.29jayteethat's what i had read
14:49.40Sup3rkiddoCM: 216? okie dokie..thanks a million
14:49.41SpeedEviland the processor running.
14:50.05jayteehmm... continually backlit?
14:50.06Sup3rkiddoCM: wierd..i have 257
14:50.21CMSup3rkiddo: That's just counting .md5 files, and I do have duplicastes of several soruce files
14:50.41Sup3rkiddoCM, ack
14:50.56CMls -l | wc -l in the folder gives 486 :)
14:51.08Sup3rkiddoCM: half way then..almost
14:51.23buzSpeedEvil: any data on battery life as mp3 player?
14:51.25koenkoen@bitbake:~/OE/monotone/org.openembedded.dev/packages/apt$ ls -l ~/OE/downloads/ | wc -l5924
14:51.31koenalmost 6k
14:51.57aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Kernel]] [[Buying_Interest_List]] [[Talk:Input_Method]]
14:52.00hrw15:51 hrw@home:~$ ls devel/sources/dl_dir/|wc -l
14:52.00hrw5991
14:53.26hrw6,8G    devel/sources/
14:57.06koen9.3G    /home/koen/OE/downloads/
14:57.09koen~lart git
14:57.32SpeedEvilbuz: /me has no hardware.
14:58.00SpeedEvilbuz: If you run the power consumption numbers of the various subsystems, it comes to some 20h.
14:58.10buzthats neat
14:58.22buzso it actually is usable as a mp3 player
14:58.29buzsome phones aren't really due to poor battery life
14:58.54buzcan mp3 decoding be done in 50mhz mode?
14:58.57SpeedEvilNo.
14:59.02SpeedEvilWell - almost certainly not.
14:59.09XorASpeedEvil: technically yes
14:59.19greghuntnot in realtime
14:59.36buzsub realtime mp3 decoding is kinda useless ;)
14:59.41XorASpeedEvil: 23% cpu at 200Mhz, that leaves a couple for overhead
14:59.44greghuntcan you get ogg decoding chips?
14:59.54SpeedEvilslow is 12Mhz.
14:59.57SpeedEvilyes, you can.
15:00.07buzi think i read about a 50mhz mode
15:00.09buzsomewhere
15:00.10SpeedEvilOGG decoding chips tend to use comparable amounts of power.
15:00.41SpeedEvilto the CPU decoding at full rate, for 1/4 of the time, and playing back in slow mode.
15:00.54buzyeah that is the obvious solution
15:01.15buzbut if you could run the cpu in a mode where it just kept up with mp3 that would probably be even better
15:01.22SpeedEvilMaybe.
15:01.22*** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081ffbe.dip.t-dialin.net)
15:01.33*** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-023.eplus-online.de)
15:01.42SpeedEvilThe CPU maker does not provide figures for speeds other than 12Mhz.
15:01.46SpeedEviland 200/266
15:01.59SpeedEvilIIRC, it can't run faster than 40MHz in the 'direct' mode.
15:02.04buzmight have been another cpu then
15:02.12SpeedEvilpower figures.
15:02.22buzoh but there are modes like that?
15:03.32SpeedEvilNo, you need to enable the PLL as I understand it for speeds of over 20, or maybe 40Mhz
15:03.35*** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn)
15:03.37SpeedEviland the PLL uses lots of power.
15:03.43SpeedEvilOn reflection, I think it was 20.
15:04.08buzthen again 20h of mp3 playing is more than good enough for me
15:05.17SpeedEvilOr was it 40h.
15:05.28SpeedEvilSearch the wiki for power estimate
15:06.35buzi'm browsing the wiki right now
15:06.47buznot sure what the idle mode does though
15:07.51buzIn this mode, FCLK to the CPU core is switched off. This reduces the power consumption to about half the typical 'Normal mode' consumption: 177mW
15:08.29SpeedEvilLook at teh bottom
15:08.37DenisBYwhy rootfs is mounting as readonly?
15:12.14Stephmwfor anyone thinking of travelling to the UK... http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/03/citizen_counter.html
15:12.22Stephmw"Have you seen someone with large quantities of mobiles?"
15:15.39koen"Tip #12: If someone asks you to deliver a trailer to the parking lot underneath a large office building and run away very fast, always check with your supervisor first.)"
15:15.57*** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host81-159-254-156.range81-159.btcentralplus.com)
15:16.04Moo^^^are these guys for real?
15:17.19philippeTip #13: People buying electronic components used to make timers should be reported to the terrorist units."
15:17.41*** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com)
15:17.47*** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@72.54.217.106)
15:19.07philippefor people who do not know the 555 ( http://homepages.westminster.org.uk/electronics/555.htm )
15:19.23hrwNE555 - universal timer making chip
15:20.54xkr47I know that one!
15:21.13xkr47I have them at home ;)
15:21.39Stephmwand a trailer?
15:21.45xkr47no
15:21.50philippexkr47: You terrorist!!!
15:21.59xkr47but you can download trailers from the internet, duh!
15:22.09xkr47philippe, yeah!
15:22.24xkr47philippe, unless I make bistable timers!
15:22.49xkr47or astable maybe, I forget
15:23.06philippexkr47: too hard to understand for people who make those rules...
15:23.49abraxa__I wonder what happens if someone crams a trailer full of electronic components, cell phones and filled water bottles and then tells someone to go park it in some building's parking lot
15:24.11philippegrrr.. I hate code like this : d0 = Exp_1 | y >> Ebits -k;
15:24.59philippeI know what it does after having to look up the precedence of the operators, but somehow don't think it does what they intended.
15:25.28abraxa__I guess brackets aren't everybody's friends after all
15:26.09philippeabraxa__: worst is that the compiler actually warns you about crap like this.
15:27.32xkr47then pin 3 is the output pin
15:28.10xkr47and I think the frequency was 0.707 * r_7_6 / (r_7_6 + r_8_7) * c_6_1
15:28.33xkr47and this I recall from having read the ne555 product sheet 15 years ago ;)
15:28.46*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.17.188)
15:28.48*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net)
15:29.00philippexkr47: so when is that bomb of yours going to explode?
15:29.08xkr47every 5 seconds
15:29.10xkr47:)
15:29.14abraxa__Too bad this kind of knowledge doesn't get you laid... I'd envy you if that were the case.
15:29.58xkr47abraxa__, if you make a blinking heart symbol using leds with that, you might have a go :)
15:30.23xkr47philippe, it's happened already.. :)
15:30.40xkr47philippe, just install a jail environment at your local linux computer and run ssh 1.0 in that jail env :)
15:30.50philippexkr47: I did not know you had internet access in guatanamo :-)
15:30.58xkr47lol
15:31.04*** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com)
15:31.40TobiX: () { :|:& }; :
15:31.52philippeabraxa__: a flashing heart on an openmoko phone might be more successful actually.
15:32.00TobiXHar, now try to jail me! :)
15:32.14XorA~jail TobiX
15:32.26xkr47TobiX, will you get lured by accidental password-in-irc pastes ?-)
15:33.15abraxa__philippe: If that openmoko phone is a gift to some girl then maybe
15:33.25TobiXxkr47: Since your are asking that way: Obviously not! Who am I? A dirty cracker?
15:34.34xkr47:)
15:35.16TobiXHmm... I re-found my first Linux installation media, let's try to set it up in a VM...
15:35.41xkr47TobiX, I have it too.. slackware on diskettes A1-A6, B1-B4, C.. :)
15:35.53xkr47there's approximately 3-8 tgz files one each disk :)
15:37.41TobiXOh, floppys... My original DOTT floppies got damaged :( - F***ing magnetic media...
15:37.52TobiXBut CD-Rs and DVD-/+Rs are even worse...
15:38.39xkr47punch-hole tapes ftw
15:41.28Moo^^^thanks for reminding.. I need buy DVD discs for back-up
15:42.20*** join/#openmoko Sup3rkiddo (n=sudharsh@59.92.32.53)
15:43.42*** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44be55.adsl.enternet.hu)
15:44.49PBeckhi
15:45.52*** join/#openmoko kn0x (n=pinochle@67.176.194.29)
15:47.52MagonIOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/opt/openembedded/tree/openembedded/packages/gtk+/gtk+-directfb-2.10.9/./directfb_pixbuf_deprecated_fix.patch'
15:47.55Magonany idea?
15:48.33*** part/#openmoko dmp (n=dmp@unaffiliated/dmp)
15:48.57Magonthis issue is in both OE and openmoko
15:49.04mickey|busyi can hardly believe that
15:49.11mickey|busysince openmoko recommends a certain revision
15:49.20Magonoh...it is head
15:49.21mickey|busywhich doesn't has that bug
15:49.23mickey|busy*nod*
15:49.27mickey|busythat's the root of your problem
15:49.44mickey|busyuse PREFERRED_PROVIDER_<foo> = "gtk+"
15:49.44hrwmickey|busy: lack of PREV_PROV for gtk?
15:49.49mickey|busyya
15:49.51Magonprobably..i can work around that, but shouldn;t someone fix it ? ;-)
15:49.59koenuse angstrom
15:50.20Magonwith one should i use?
15:57.37*** join/#openmoko nonickatm (n=chatzill@168.226.104.196)
16:02.51hrwcu
16:05.30*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178253187.adsl.alicedsl.de)
16:07.02Magonmickey_away: PREFERRED_PROVIDER_gtk+ = "gtk+" ?
16:07.41nonickatmI have some suggestions for http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#FM.2FDigital_Radio.28DAB.29_Reciever : can also be included MW radio, and if possible make the radio integrated?
16:08.44*** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2)
16:09.11nonickatmthere is no more shortwave stations, isn't there?
16:09.30floriannonickatm: what makes you think that?
16:10.58nonickatmbecause here there SW hasn't got any emissor
16:12.31*** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@c83-252-108-234.bredband.comhem.se)
16:12.39nonickatmhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Hard_Drive omg the most annonying suggestion ever
16:12.57Magonthere is line
16:12.58MagonPREFERRED_VERSION_gtk+ = "2.6.10"
16:13.12Magonso why it tries to install gtk+-2.10.9?
16:14.08DenisBYsomeone tried to run openmoko in vmware?
16:14.30florianI suspect the directfb stuff is guilty - everything seems to default to directfb now (sdl, gtk) and there is no gtk-directfb 2.6.x
16:15.00DenisBYcan't get Xfbdev run in proper resolution
16:15.06Magonok..so how to force it to doesnt use directfb?
16:15.40florianDenisBY: should be quite easy if you use a bigger resolution and Xoo - i made the same for G(PE)^2
16:15.54zecke|studyMagon: how many parse errors did you get?
16:16.03Magonno
16:16.29*** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz)
16:16.35Magonjust errors in compile after not finding patch file
16:16.38DenisBYflorian, no, I'm not using Xoo. I'm just copy rootfs to separete drive and boot from it
16:16.58*** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159)
16:17.20DenisBYand Xfbdev just run in 640x480 in 4 colors only
16:17.58florianDenisBY: set video=788 or something like this in the kernel command line
16:18.12DenisBYif I define more, for example 8, it complain about memory allocation
16:18.43DenisBYok, I'll try
16:18.51Magoni convinced bitbake to use gtk+ :-)
16:19.06Magonsrashed again
16:25.09MagonERROR: log data follows (/opt/openembedded/tree/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/gtk+-2.6.10-r8/temp/log.do_configure.15998)
16:25.12Magon| /opt/openembedded/tree/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/gtk+-2.6.10-r8/temp/run.do_configure.15998: line 314: storcenter-image_do_configure: command not found
16:25.17Magonwhat is that?
16:26.03*** join/#openmoko ciastek (n=ciastek@procent.miedzylesie.waw.pl)
16:26.05zecke|studyMagon: there is something broken with your configuration
16:27.20Magoni did nothing..it works again....
16:29.56DenisBYalso I can't understand why rootfs is mounting readonly...
16:38.47CoreDump|afkrobtaylor: I had to cancel the upload due to too many aborts / disconnects :\
16:39.19CoreDump|homehi
16:48.04DerCornymh, after reading the backlog i'm not the onlÃy one with gtk+ pobs atm?
16:50.23*** part/#openmoko h_ivanov (n=hivanov@213.222.54.133)
16:50.31*** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21)
16:52.57aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
16:54.18MagonDerCorny: i have solved that
16:56.45DerCornyMagon: how? i think my problem is slightly different, it cant find certain patches
16:57.00DerCornyIOError: [Errno 2] No such file or directory: '/home/corny/moko/openembedded/packages/gtk+/files/./disable-tooltips.patch'
16:57.12Magonit is the same
16:57.25Magonput somewhere this
16:57.25MagonPREFERRED_VERSION_gtk+ = "2.6.10"
16:58.27DerCornywhere "somewhere" is my local.conf?
16:58.40Magonie
17:01.05DerCornycrap, still fails :(
17:01.48*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)
17:02.21*** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=_law_@213.173.86.202)
17:03.17*** part/#openmoko ciastek (n=ciastek@procent.miedzylesie.waw.pl)
17:03.39*** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@66.213.213.146)
17:04.56*** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@2001:638:602:af01:219:d2ff:fe05:bdce)
17:06.26DerCornyno clue, i started yesterday
17:07.17Magonyou have still the same error?
17:07.30Magonyou are probably usin mokomakefile, yes?
17:07.57koendownload makefile ; disable brain
17:08.37Magonkoen: best thing about it is that it have patch set....
17:11.00DerCornyseems like it tries to build an old version of gtk+-directfb
17:11.22*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)
17:11.50Magonit still tries gtk+-directfb ?
17:12.20DerCornyhttp://rafb.net/p/J6d0b795.html
17:14.09Magonok..still problem
17:16.15Magonand do you have in openmoko.inc PREFERRED_VERSION?
17:18.26*** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-175-23.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at)
17:18.55koenpH5: it is
17:19.08koenpH5: hrw|gone and I suggested that a while back
17:20.01zecke|studypH5: hehe
17:21.07DerCornyMagon: there are a couple of PREFERRED_VERSIONs in there, but none for gtk+
17:22.14pH5I think just reordering providers_list at that place in taskdata.py could be sufficient.
17:22.17Magonwhat about line like that
17:22.18MagonPREFERRED_VERSION_gtk+ = "2.6.10" ?
17:24.34pH5oh noes, it wouldn't.
17:25.01DerCornyMagon: not in there, added it, still faails. i'll edit taskdata.py now
17:25.23*** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-121.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
17:28.50*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180)
17:31.23TF_Void_Ptris nonickatm a troll?
17:31.24alorilTF_Void_Ptr: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
17:31.31nonickatmno
17:31.43nonickatmwhy?
17:31.46TF_Void_Ptrwhy do you hate the hd suggestion?
17:31.52TF_Void_Ptrseems plausible to me. (I didn't post it, btw)
17:32.14nonickatmI see it quite useless
17:32.21TF_Void_Ptrin essence it makes the device capable of being an integrated media and music player
17:32.29TF_Void_Ptrcan dump ipod and whatever else
17:32.51nonickatmyou can do the same thing with a hotswappable sd card
17:32.59TF_Void_Ptrexcept sd cards have limited size
17:33.13TF_Void_PtrI'm thinking something like 60gb flash micro-drive type thing
17:33.16DerCornyu dhe, dont have that file
17:33.51TF_Void_PtrAND in current design of case, the sd card is anything but hot-swappable. ;)
17:34.14pH5koen: hmm. this bug is already fixed in bitbake trunk?
17:34.52koenpH5: dunno, gtk+ was already built before gtk-directfb was added
17:36.30pH5I think it is. I can't reproduce it here with dummy packages.
17:36.31*** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de)
17:36.55pH5one more reason to switch to bitbake 1.8 soon.
17:37.37CIA-16openmoko: 03thomas * r1460 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog src/today-main.c):
17:37.37CIA-16openmoko: * src/today-main.c: Add support for icon themes, and assign applications to
17:37.37CIA-16openmoko: the remaining launchers
17:37.57nonickatmbesides, other problem is size, how do you pretend a 60gb hdd in a mobile phone? it should be enourmus
17:38.59TF_Void_Ptrnot necessarily
17:39.13TF_Void_Ptrseen latest solid state drives? or holographic?
17:39.29nonickatmnokia n series has got mini hd and those are 4gb ones
17:39.37TF_Void_Ptryou will soon (within 2-3 years) be able to store .5tb on something the size of a thumbnail
17:40.04TF_Void_Ptrdon't underestimate how tiny these things will get before too long
17:41.28DukeOfURLwhat will the connectors look like?
17:41.44TF_Void_Ptr<-- doesn't have a crystal ball
17:41.58philippeMagon, DerCorny : as a temporary workaround I removed the directfb bb recipes.
17:42.11Magonphilippe: it works for me already :-)
17:42.17TF_Void_PtrI'm just saying having something larger than 2gb for storage of movies and music is desirable.
17:42.26TF_Void_Ptrand possible.
17:42.35Magonbtw: how do you try openmoko apps? compile for x86, or qemu?
17:42.58DerCornyx86 over here
17:43.06Magonand xoo?
17:44.16mjrMagon, either; native compilation seems the more preferred solution
17:44.16mjr(native for x86)
17:44.43Magonmy problem is how to jail it?
17:45.41DerCornyphilippe: hehe, good idea, seems to work
17:46.49philippeDerCorny: dirty and easy. No gtk+-directfb recipes, no provides... :-)
17:51.58aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[IPhone]]
17:55.08DerCornysweet, i'm past the gtk+ part. thx everybody
17:55.26*** join/#openmoko nonickatm (n=chatzill@168.226.104.196)
17:56.28*** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be)
18:02.10*** join/#openmoko Matt_x (n=chatzill@pool-71-161-222-149.burl.east.verizon.net)
18:04.16*** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@pD9EBC2F4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
18:06.27*** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3ee3f820.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:07.58*** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159)
18:08.27koenk-s[WORK]: did you really mean to link to http://lists.libsdl.org/pipermail/sdl-libsdl.org/2001-April/016483.html ?
18:13.02DerCornyhttp://rafb.net/p/DAASTs32.html *sigh* no luck for me
18:13.07*** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@2001:638:602:af01:219:d2ff:fe05:bdce)
18:13.15DerCornyis the makefile not the recommended way to build the image?
18:13.32*** join/#openmoko xyrouz (n=xyrouz@0x3e42caa9.adsl.cybercity.dk)
18:17.18*** join/#openmoko t[cc]smar (n=[cc]smar@gw.ptr-62-65-142-223.customer.ch.netstream.com)
18:17.24*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180)
18:18.19CMDerCorny: That depends on who you ask ;)
18:18.41*** join/#openmoko TomaszD (n=tom@unaffiliated/tomaszd)
18:21.41DerCornylol
18:21.59robtaylorCoreDump|home: hey, how big is it?
18:25.12k-s[WORK]koen: yep
18:25.31k-s[WORK]koen: evas doesn't operate on 16bpp, but 32bpp
18:26.02k-s[WORK]koen: showing them people use it since that time may help :-)
18:26.06k-s[WORK]brb
18:26.22koenmickeyl: as you might have guessed, k-s[WORK] is working on making evas fast on ARM :)
18:26.35*** join/#openmoko k-s[WORK] (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132)
18:27.41k-s[WORK]back
18:28.44DerCornyCM: he, i see you ran into the same bug
18:29.11CMDerCorny: Was it the perl one?
18:29.32DerCornyhttp://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1765 (probably, checking the fix atm)
18:32.17mickeylin general i found adding BUILD_SYS=i686 and doing the uname trick a necessity to get stuff built on x86_64
18:32.40koendoesn't 'linux32' do all that without OE hacks?
18:33.15mickeylno idea
18:33.19mickeyli don't own such a thing
18:33.23mickeyli just happen to build on it
18:33.35koenit did for me, when I ran OE in 64bit userspace
18:33.50mickeylin summer i'm going to use a Mac Pro
18:33.56mickeylhopefully we can build natively on that
18:34.03mickeylelse it would suck a bit
18:34.06koenmickeyl: we can
18:34.08mickeylin parallels *shrugh*
18:34.14mickeylwe can? good!
18:34.23koenmickeyl: if you fix bitbake's path escaping
18:34.41mickeylwill look into that then
18:34.56koenmy FW disk has spaces and ' in its name
18:35.12mickeylah
18:35.14mickeylKoen's disk
18:35.21koenright
18:35.24mickeyli remember
18:35.30guaquais there some sort of gps application on the drawing board? is it a project of the core team, or should a project be started?
18:35.30mickeylok, i see what i can do
18:35.33koen(valid dutch, invalid english)
18:35.41koenguaqua: maemo-mapper
18:35.44guaquaand what is the general state of the gps code?
18:36.03mickeylguaqua: a project should definitly started, however i would seriously recommend taking a look at all existing solutions (there are at least 4) and trying to contribute to either one or merge 'em
18:36.05guaquai.e. can you actually get readings from the gps?
18:36.14mickeylhmm
18:36.15mickeylthe state of gps
18:36.19mickeylhow should i say
18:36.21SpeedEvilbroken!
18:36.25SpeedEvilBuggered!
18:36.26mickeyl"not yet working" is the official answer
18:36.29SpeedEvilNot yet working!
18:36.30koenharald said to ask again in ~2 weeks
18:36.36mickeyl"a negotiation nightmare" is the inofficial answer
18:36.58guaquareason i'm asking is because i'm thinking of SoC project relating to it
18:37.29koenguaqua: proper hildon/gtk/moka abstraction for https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-mapper would be nice
18:37.34koenmoko*
18:37.58sannesnegotiation nightmare?
18:38.18SpeedEvilGlobal locate are closed source
18:38.24SpeedEvilthey have never done open source before.
18:38.26koensannes: IPR
18:38.34guaquakoen: basically thinking of just porting maemo-mapper to run on openmoko and using libmokoui & friends?
18:38.41nonickatmwill be possible to listen fm radios via wifi and mms://?
18:38.52SpeedEvilAs a main asset is the way they convert from the raw hardware signals to the final position.
18:38.56koenguaqua: yes, but in a sane way :)
18:38.57SpeedEvilWhich is all in software.
18:39.22SpeedEvilSo it's ending up as a binary plugin to gpsd
18:39.57sanneskoen: Intellectual Property? :P
18:40.08guaquain plain english, not a new application, but alternative bindings
18:40.10koenyep
18:41.50sannesso, anyone know what kind of data that they read from the gps? because I bet (no money, they are all going to P[123]) I can make an algorithm to give me a position ..
18:42.48robtaylormickeyl, guaqua: worth taking a look at GeoClue, a project that got started at gnome bosten summit
18:42.56koensannes: the plan is to make is use gpsd, so you can assume it will give nmea in some way
18:43.04robtaylorhttp://live.gnome.org/GeoClue
18:43.10koenrobtaylor: 'bitbake geoclue' :D
18:43.20robtaylorsome guys from garmin were involved...
18:43.44robtaylorkoen: heh :)
18:44.28*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-1-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
18:45.07*** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=redragon@vnsecurity.net)
18:45.31guaquarobtaylor, koen: geoclue actually looks exactly what may people would like to see in openmoko
18:45.42robtaylorguaqua: yep!
18:51.58aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User:KayHH]] [[Buying_Interest_List]]
18:52.25*** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com)
18:54.52*** join/#openmoko KeKeSeB (n=kekeseb@cl-306.bru-01.be.sixxs.net)
18:57.00*** join/#openmoko thomasg_gpm (n=thomasg@p57aff2b8.dip.t-dialin.net)
18:58.00thomasg_gpmhi. in the openmoko wiki I read, that the Neo mobile phone will be available at 25th march. is this information still up to date?
18:58.00alorilthomasg_gpm: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
18:59.05Fletchcounter
18:59.05alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 17:00:56 (12.709 +-7.0 days) (587)
18:59.25Fletchu need to wait ;)
18:59.44thomasg_gpmhehe
18:59.47thomasg_gpmI want to have it! :)
19:00.15Fletchu r not alone :)
19:00.19*** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159)
19:01.30thomasg_gpmhopefully it will be available in europe in quantities
19:03.44*** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.99.50)
19:07.53thomasg_gpmif the neo is ready, it will be the last of my devices with a open os. :) on my pc, my laptop and my DAP I already use open systems.
19:08.49*** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5b07fa92.dip.t-dialin.net)
19:09.00koenit's a bit ehm...
19:09.06koen'unpolished' right now
19:09.28koenbut the development pace is picking up
19:09.37*** join/#openmoko Magon_ (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
19:10.01thomasg_gpmwell, its very new. I'd like to support FIC so they can release even better phones in future
19:10.01CMI'm not expecting to be able to use it as my everyday phone for quite a while
19:10.37koenCM: my guess is early 2008
19:10.38thomasg_gpmhm, I have about 5 sim cards, so it is no problem for me to use it as 2nd, 3rd or 4th mobile phone
19:10.50guaquai'm hoping the python bindings got to be usable and there was an easy way to run openmoko either in virtualized environment or through xoo
19:10.52CMkoen: I'm hoping for christmas ;)
19:11.04thomasg_gpmI hope that enlightenment DR17 will run on it in future :)
19:11.35koenthomasg_gpm: it runs on it *right now*
19:11.42thomasg_gpmreally?
19:11.42koenbitbake e-wm ; ipkg install e-wm
19:11.50thomasg_gpmcool :)
19:12.11thomasg_gpmI heard that e17 is not running on Kdrive right now
19:12.21koennonsense
19:12.27thomasg_gpmhm, good to know
19:12.31koenI've been running it on kdrive for the past year or so
19:12.43koenkdrive is a normal xserver
19:12.53CIA-16openmoko: 03zecke * r1461 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-rssreader/ (19 files in 3 dirs):
19:12.53CIA-16openmoko: openmoko-rssreader: Add the RSS Reader as announced on the mailinglist
19:12.53CIA-16openmoko:  This application requires libmrss for feed reading. The application
19:12.53CIA-16openmoko:  will eventually hang or segfault if you have at-spi running in your
19:12.54CIA-16openmoko:  desktop as ATK/Gail/Orbit is not thread safe.
19:12.58zeckekoen: yeah :)
19:13.01pH5yay
19:13.05thomasg_gpmdo you own a phase0 device koen?
19:13.11pH5zecke: what about the python bindings?
19:13.16koenthomasg_gpm: yes
19:13.22zeckepH5: hehe, I just wanted to say something
19:13.33zeckepH5: bindings will go gforge once fixed
19:13.48zeckepH5: I think I have talked mickeyl into using svn:external for integrating projects from gforge
19:13.51thomasg_gpmhow fast is the device? and is there a good video showing some apps or something like this? I only know the video which shows the basic call function
19:14.15pH5zecke: great!
19:14.35zeckepH5: this allows easy ACL and more people contributing
19:14.41zeckeanyway, I will get some food now
19:14.47zeckebbl
19:15.41*** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd)
19:15.42*** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz)
19:15.54LuitvDhello mikesh
19:15.56LuitvD:P
19:16.12LuitvDcounter
19:16.12alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 16:43:52 (12.697 +-7.0 days) (588)
19:16.12mikeshhi LuitvD
19:16.34thomasg_gpmstop that counter! :)
19:17.06LuitvDWHY??
19:17.11LuitvDdouble the speed
19:17.13LuitvDnot stop
19:17.16thomasg_gpmhehe, ok :)
19:17.27thomasg_gpmbtw. koen, a screenshot/photo of the Neo with e17 would be great ;)
19:17.30LuitvDactually waiting for P1+, not P1
19:18.10koenthomasg_gpm: it would, but I like the phone to be useable as a phone ;)
19:18.40LuitvDor for a response from e28
19:18.43DukeOfURLHas anyone spoken with Sean about the availability of P1 phones?  Are they on schedule?
19:20.15rohyou guys are much too stressed about dates. it will be there when its done and working. we don't want any buggy hardware for the price of a few days
19:22.35DukeOfURLExcept that today I'm writing a development plan...  Kinda tough to do development without a platform.
19:23.27koenDukeOfURL: depends on the kind of development
19:23.36DukeOfURLUh, software
19:23.57_llll_cant you use qemu for the software stuff?
19:24.01DukeOfURLAlso writing a marketing plan.  Kinda tough to execute without a product.
19:24.52*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-252-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
19:26.13roh_llll_ you can actually.. but its note done yet
19:26.42DukeOfURLMy marketing window is starting to close (competition).  Should I be looking at Motorola EZX or wait for Neo?
19:27.32rohDukeOfURL that depends on your timeframes and your requirements on hardware/software
19:27.34*** join/#openmoko TobiX (i=tobias@zoidberg.org)
19:29.09DukeOfURLI'd like to begin marketing in the 4th quarter.  For hardware I need GSM/GPRS, AGPS, and Linux with VGA display.
19:30.57DukeOfURLIf the Neo is slipping for, say, six months then I'll need another platform.  What other platforms will run external apps?
19:33.39rohdoes the EZX have gps? afaik it only has 320x200 or so as displayresolution
19:34.02koenthe european a780 has gps
19:34.09koenbut as you say, qvga
19:35.17rohDukeOfURL 4th quarter should be fine when you develop the software before the mass-production runs fully
19:37.05rohas far as i'm informed the P1 devices which we all await should be hw-bug free (at least of all bugs we currently know of) so they are the primary test-targets for app-development from my view (p0 is more system-level development)
19:37.18xkr47does the openmoko draw less energy when using a lower resolution on the display ?
19:37.26SpeedEvilxkr47: yes
19:37.29SpeedEvilunless it's buggy
19:37.43SpeedEvilRAM takes a fair bit of power.
19:37.48LuitvDlol, less processing power should ensure less use of power...
19:37.52xkr47säp
19:38.00LuitvDsäp?
19:38.07SpeedEviland 640*640*16*60Hz uses a lot of RAM bandwidth
19:38.18xkr47säp == oops :)
19:38.24LuitvD60Hz refresh rate? really?
19:38.25xkr47among my friends :)
19:38.53pH5wow, I need irc in my shower, too.
19:38.58*** join/#openmoko Anon0363 (n=fn-javac@cm137199.red.mundo-r.com)
19:39.08LuitvDheheh
19:39.33Anon0363hoho
19:39.57*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-1-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
19:40.14rohinterresting question.. how much power we can save there.. but i'm afraid you can save much more by just dimming the display brightness a bit
19:40.16Anon0363lpksofkogusapifiusDA
19:40.29SpeedEvilIt may be a fair bit.
19:40.50SpeedEvilFor example, IIRC I get 10% of extra battery life on my PII/300 notebook in X in 4 bit mode than 24.
19:41.20LuitvDand a bloody ugly bit of graphics
19:42.43xkr47pH5, you just need a water-resistant openmoko, that's all
19:42.44xkr47:)
19:43.17*** join/#openmoko balrog-k1n (n=balrog@cly83.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl)
19:43.40DukeOfURLOpenEZX doesn't look to be that far along.  
19:46.29*** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net)
19:46.42*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-1-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
19:46.49*** join/#openmoko SBKch (n=SBKch@254.224.unknown.vectranet.pl)
19:47.45*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ip-31.48.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net)
19:52.58aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]]
19:53.26*** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@244.pool85-50-102.dynamic.orange.es)
19:53.32MandarinoYuhú :)
19:53.56Mandarinocounter
19:53.56alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 16:06:03 (12.671 +-7.0 days) (589)
19:58.34MandarinoAnybody will go to fostel?
19:59.32*** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p5495234c.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:07.55guaquawhat do you guys think about gpsd?
20:08.08*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-252-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
20:09.11guaquaspecifically this: http://gpsd.berlios.de/
20:10.47*** join/#openmoko Matt_x_ (n=chatzill@pool-71-161-222-149.burl.east.verizon.net)
20:11.02thomasg_gpm<PROTECTED>
20:11.54guaquacorrect
20:17.54*** join/#openmoko Longfield (n=valentin@d83-180-76-84.cust.tele2.ch)
20:18.15SpeedEvilthe gps will be based on gpsd
20:18.19SpeedEvilwith a binary plugin
20:18.50guaquaokay
20:20.43*** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz)
20:22.18*** join/#openmoko ronny (n=r0nny@pd9e6b1a0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:23.36tigerthave you folks looked into geoclue btw?
20:23.48tigerthttp://live.gnome.org/GeoClue
20:23.59koentigert: yes, it doesn't compile at the moment
20:24.03tigertits sorta preliminary thingy but I think we need a location framework
20:24.09tigertkoen: duh, so keith broke it
20:24.10tigertduh
20:24.26tigertgps is no good indoors
20:25.38*** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
20:25.38*** join/#openmoko wildfire` (n=wildfire@203.7.227.146)
20:25.51koentigert: wait for sift7 ;)
20:25.57tigertkoen: it builds okay for me
20:26.29tigertbut the idea is to build a framework for all things geolocative
20:26.55koentigert: did you see the slashdot story about the wifi db?
20:26.59tigertie, "I am in N 60° 10' 32''E 24° 56' 3''" - what city is this?"
20:27.16tigertkoen: no, but I heard there were some things
20:27.24tigertthere is of course plazes.com too which is nice
20:27.35SpeedEvilGPS used to be no good indoors.
20:27.39SpeedEvilIt now depends.
20:27.42tigertyeah
20:27.52tigertbut wlan is one good way to locate you
20:28.07SpeedEvilMy GPS12 (ancient garmin unit) is 10dB less sensitive than the one on the neo.
20:28.10tigertthus geoclue's idea is to have many backends so one of them at least should tell you some idea where you are
20:28.13CoreDump|homedo we have a working gpsd for neo yet?
20:28.18SpeedEvilwhich would make it dolid location inside.
20:28.21SpeedEvils/dol/sol/
20:28.24SpeedEvilCoreDump|home; no
20:28.30SpeedEvil(inside here at least)
20:28.30CoreDump|hometo bad
20:28.40koentigert: http://rafb.net/p/pUtD1271.html
20:28.44tigertit depends on your idea of "inside" too
20:28.48SpeedEvilWell - 'we' being the community that is - global locate may or may not.
20:28.50tigertsome buildings block more than others
20:28.52*** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo)
20:28.53koentigert: could be the usual gspd is broken thingy
20:28.54SpeedEvilinside my house.
20:29.05SpeedEvilIt will not work inside many large buildings.
20:29.10*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-1-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
20:29.40tigertkoen: oh, I built on x86, hmm
20:30.26tigertSpeedEvil: yeah, where many people work
20:30.29tigertwhere the location service would be useful
20:30.35tigertthus, the idea to start geoclue
20:30.55tigertthe idea was to have one dbus service to ask for where you are
20:31.04tigertand it'd try to give you the best guess it has
20:32.25SpeedEvilwireless networking isn't really great either.
20:32.31SpeedEvilThe signal varies horribly.
20:32.40SpeedEvilEven without taking into account body position.
20:33.15SpeedEviland for a phone, you're going to see a factor of several differnence depending on body and phone orientation.
20:33.28koentigert: could you convince the geoclue people to drop the gnomepanel dep?
20:33.43koentigert: gnomepanel pulls in half of gnome
20:33.56koenand orbit, which we loathe and replaced with dbus for most stuff
20:34.01*** join/#openmoko ich (n=ich@88.134.99.50)
20:34.26*** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44be55.adsl.enternet.hu)
20:34.51tigertkoen: oh, its the panel applet
20:34.56tigertkoen: I guess one could make it optional
20:34.57koenright
20:35.05tigertwill mail keith
20:35.28koenthanks
20:35.58aloril(script) openmoko-devel: Harald Welte <laforge at openmoko.org> Re: FeedReader for OpenMoko
20:36.39CMSpeedEvil: I was part of a indoor mapping project using the wifi accesspoint strenght to triangulate a location. Bad thing is we had to build a map for it by walking around each floor and storing reference points.
20:36.54CMAt the uni that is..
20:37.29tigertCM: in MIT?
20:37.31tigertI read about this
20:37.49tigertkoen, CM, others btw: we have #geoclue in gimpnet (irc.gimp.org) if you are interested
20:38.09tigertthe idea is to make this framework something useful for many of us
20:38.17CMtigert: Naaa, was Umeå university in my home town, 4 years ago or so
20:38.21SpeedEvilCM: yeah - for a phone, you've got the whole body interaction thing.
20:38.22tigertCM: ok
20:38.26tigertMIT had something similar
20:38.26SpeedEvilWhich sucks.
20:38.36*** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz)
20:38.37CMYes, they did :)
20:39.58SpeedEvilCM: results? What were you surveying with?
20:40.58*** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-020.eplus-online.de)
20:41.15CMSpeedEvil: We just used a standard orinocco wifi card and polled the signal strength from all accesspoints we could reach. Wrote all code ourselves
20:42.18koentigert: I know about #geoclue, trying to cut down of the number of irc channels I'm in
20:43.27tigertyeah :P
20:43.49tigertI have 79 windows in irssi (most of old queries though)
20:43.52tigertI know what you mean
20:44.03guaquaurgh
20:44.09guaquai don't even know how to use that many
20:44.36tigertyea, I just clean up when I get over some annoyance threshold
20:47.56MandarinoWhy in the buying list appears people comments about 8 GB+ Storage :? There are some new improvement?
20:48.13SpeedEvilI think perhaps confusion.
20:48.32*** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de)
20:48.37SpeedEvilThere was mention of 1GB upgrade to the NAND in P1+
20:48.50SpeedEvilThis was 1 gigabit
20:48.51CMSpeedEvil: Heh, I just read our old report.. It's in swedish :P
20:49.49Mandarino1.   Aloril  With Multi-touch and 8GB+ Storge]]
20:50.03Mandarino8.   KayHH  With Multi-touch and 8 GB+ Storage
20:50.53*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-252-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
20:51.28*** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de)
20:52.08MandarinoxD
20:52.58aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Neo1973_Phase_0]]
20:58.20*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net)
21:03.33guaquahas someone already been thinking of the olpc mesh and how to implement it on openmoko? :)
21:03.37koenSpeedEvil: probably a hint at the iphone
21:03.51koenguaqua: kinda hard without wifi
21:03.53guaqua8 GB+ :D
21:03.59guaquathat plus :D
21:04.15guaquakoen: wifi is going to happen one day
21:04.37koensure
21:04.53abraxa__I finished building the OpenMoko image and would like to build an automake-based program using the build environment that was used for the OpenMoko image as well - namely the one in build/tmp/rootfs. Can anyone give me a hint how I can do this? I tried various approaches but none worked unfortuantely.
21:05.02guaquathere is so much potential in this. i just wish the foundation got ready :)
21:05.03koenless range, but lower power and more bandwidth
21:05.11orospakrguaqua: the only driver that supports that is libertas, for the marvell 8388 chipset.
21:05.30orospakrit could possibly be implemented in other Free drivers for softmac cards
21:05.32koenabraxa__: write a recipe and bitbake it
21:05.36guaquakoen: true true. wifi is the standard anyway
21:05.55guaquaorospakr: so there is hope? (i know nothing about these things)
21:06.28koenthey are meeting with wifi vendors this week I heard
21:06.29orospakrguaqua: depends on the chipset the FIC guys choose!
21:06.48guaquaorospakr: okay :)
21:07.08abraxa__koen: I thought there had been a common method for this like giving the configure script some neat param - but thanks, I'll try that then
21:07.50koenyou can do olpc meshing with any chip, you'd just consume more power by doing routing in the CPU instead of wifichip
21:08.55MandarinoI think this could be an idea for the Neo: http://javierperez.eu/bloqueo-y-desbloqueo-de-pantalla-por-detector-de-presencia-en-ubuntu-con-bluetooth-aimtooth/
21:08.59guaquaspeech synthesizer stuff again: http://espeak.sourceforge.net/
21:09.36tigerthm
21:10.16guaquatigert: i actually asked a blind person, and he gave me this one :)
21:10.43tigertit sounds quite much like flite judging from the sample ogg
21:10.52guaquathis isn't supposed to sound as natural as flite, but he said this is easier to listen to for a longer time
21:11.08guaquai didn't listen to it yet
21:12.10tigertit sounded quite artificial though
21:12.27tigertthere are pretty amazing commercial ones  too
21:12.36guaquai can't make anything out of the sample on the website
21:13.28zeckemickeyl: could we switch to a different sf.net mirror to make dejavu fetchable?
21:15.19buzlike you need UWB bandwidth on neo
21:15.28buzfor what, streaming 1080p video?
21:15.35buzMPEG2 encoded, no less
21:17.44guaquaraw mped :>
21:17.55*** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-24-1-39-131.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:18.13*** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@c-24-1-39-131.hsd1.il.comcast.net)
21:18.15koen640k is enough for everyone!
21:18.42guaquathere are going to be 4 to 5 computers in the world in 2000
21:19.15*** join/#openmoko nonickatm (n=chatzill@168.226.104.196)
21:19.30buzstuffing UWB into neo is like putting 8mb ram into a PC XT
21:20.17koenit will give you WiNet and WiUSB
21:20.19nonickatmI am wondering if will be possible listen radio via gprs / wifi
21:20.39guaquait will be
21:20.40buzWiNet without access points is mostly useless
21:20.52guaquagprs is enough for radio stream. mostly
21:20.53buzgprs: not really, wifi when it comes definitely
21:21.02buzbluetooth too
21:21.08guaquanot good quality over gprs though
21:21.16buz32kbit yes
21:21.59buzif you're really lucky 56
21:22.12guaquai've listened to virgin radio stream on my nokia 6600
21:22.18*** join/#openmoko LWT001 (n=LWT@61.145.140.192)
21:22.26buzi'd prefer FM to 56kbit mp3 myself
21:22.27guaquait has to buffer from time to time, so it's not very usable
21:22.54*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-4e15a31e13314e27)
21:23.18buzwhat about the rumours of faster GSM for P1.5?
21:23.31*** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)
21:23.35*** join/#openmoko disguy__219 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-1424cdccc45477dd)
21:23.36buzEDGE would be more than enough for IP radio
21:23.51buznibbler_de: your e70 is a umts phone ;)
21:24.01nibbler_delooks like i have to wait for the next moko in deed, yeah
21:24.13guaquaedge would be ideal
21:24.15nibbler_deno umts really is somewhat of a showstopper
21:24.22buznot for me
21:24.23guaquathere's no real addition from umts in my book
21:24.37buzi dont really see the use case for UMTS
21:24.39nibbler_deguaqua: what do you mean by that?
21:24.46buzEDGE, sure
21:24.50nibbler_debuz: streaming video? less latency?
21:24.56buzbut watching streaming video on 2.8"???
21:24.59guaquaat the moment you can't play video well
21:25.11buzbesides, UMTS doesnt necessarily have less latency
21:25.12guaquathere's no decoding chip etc
21:25.17buzsome reports say quite the oppposite
21:25.46guaquai wouldn't object to umts, off course
21:25.58buztruth to be told, i dont care for video on 2,8"
21:26.11nibbler_debuz: i've been using various umts and gprs equipment for some years now - in almost all cases umts has less jitter and less latency
21:26.18buzheck i consider 32" tv to be too small (TM)
21:26.57buznext tv i buy must be at the very least 40"
21:27.23nibbler_dethe question is... what resolution ;)
21:27.55nibbler_dethey still sell TVs over here that don't do at least 720p on >20"
21:28.13buzfor most tv, 720p is good enough
21:28.23nibbler_deat 40" there would be just one reasonable resolution: 1080p
21:28.25buzonce you come into 50" territory 1080p is ok
21:28.36buz(actually, my beamer currently does about 70" at SVGA)
21:28.44buzstill beats the shit out of 95% tv outthere
21:29.02nibbler_desvga really isn't acceptable >12" ;)
21:29.15buzfor computers, SVGA is NEVER acceptable ;)
21:29.36buzbut considering that HDTV content is still rare, the SVGA beamer does good enough for now
21:29.37nibbler_deeven for movies etc.
21:30.04buz(for political reasons i cant get sat tv, so hdtv is out for now)
21:30.24nibbler_dethen again - i really enjoy watching stuff like family guy on my k800i or E70
21:30.29nibbler_debut not at home ;)
21:30.42nibbler_debuz: you have internet, right? why bother sat tv then? ;)
21:31.40nibbler_de10 years? ;)
21:31.41buzuntil then, the beamer+crt tv will do fine ;)
21:31.56buzi'd expect about 2
21:32.22buz50" 720p should be there in short time ;)
21:33.38buzplasma still suffers of burn in
21:33.57buznot as badly as a few years ago, but still
21:34.21*** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@212.2.172.164)
21:36.48*** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-121.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
21:40.19*** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com)
21:40.34*** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-027.eplus-online.de)
21:42.00*** part/#openmoko _law_ (n=_law_@213.173.86.202)
21:45.16MetaBookfoziSIs there anybody, who can tell me, how can i get neo from budapest?
21:45.55MetaBookfoziSjust a question, actually:/
21:46.06guaquayou can't, at the moment
21:46.41*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
21:46.41philippecan anybody tell me how I can make sure all the openmoko programs get build?
21:46.57philippeI tried adapting the tasks, but it seems to ignore my changes.
21:47.03mitsuhikointeresting. is the gpsd really closed source?
21:47.19*** join/#openmoko ewanm89_ (n=ewanm89@host86-153-88-121.range86-153.btcentralplus.com)
21:48.09buzmitsuhiko: just the plugin talking to the gps chip i believe
21:58.20*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-1-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
22:03.08*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-252-29.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
22:10.05*** join/#openmoko Demitar_ (n=demitar@c-212-031-183-175.cust.broadway.se)
22:10.17spikebik1counter
22:10.17alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 13:49:42 (12.576 +-7.0 days) (590)
22:10.33spikebik1mitsu yes
22:13.07philippeAha found out why... patching file trunk/oe/packages/images/openmoko-devel-image.bb ...in mokomakefile...
22:23.33*** join/#openmoko giggls (i=sven@irc.fuchsschwanzdomain.de)
22:23.52*** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl)
22:26.08*** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com)
22:29.25*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-1-184.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
22:29.56*** join/#openmoko disguy__219 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-e645d070a8c77c2b)
22:30.00*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-37c69f9d7d7bc712)
22:32.51Moo^^^philippe: already having headache with new toy? :)
22:38.38*** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins)
22:41.35zeckehmm the moko theme is slow over remote X...
22:42.57*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)
22:43.46SpeedEvilGoogle DXPC
22:43.52SpeedEvildifferential X protocol compressor.
22:43.55SpeedEvilWorks fairly well.
22:44.26zeckeSpeedEvil: well, it looks like the moko theme is uploading all images into the server...
22:44.37SpeedEviloh - it generally does that (X)
22:44.48zeckewhich is slow, as for cairo it is likely that these images are downloaded again :)
22:45.00zecke~seen cworth
22:45.44aptcworth <n=cworth@c-67-160-161-141.hsd1.or.comcast.net> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 7d 5h 49m 23s ago, saying: 'apaulsen: Would it be better to just get newer gconf into OE ?'.
22:45.46*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net)
22:45.58aloril(script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: Calculator for OpenMoko
22:46.37gigglsapropos X, how Do I get a non US keyboard layout with Xephyr?
22:49.32*** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby)
22:50.11*** join/#openmoko felipe (n=felipe@my.nada.kth.se)
22:50.12rwhitbymorning
22:50.23mickeylcheers rod
22:51.51zeckemickeyl: hi :)
22:51.52rwhitbyhey mickeyl - did an OpenMoko talk at the Linux SA users group the other night.
22:52.06rwhitbydid a demo of a GSM call of course :-)
22:52.12mickeyl:)
22:53.20high-rezmickeyl: I never heard back from Sean :(
22:53.30mickeylhi high-rez
22:53.32mickeylsorry bout that
22:53.33mickeylthis man is so overloaded it's crazy. Once all the most pressuring hardware issues are sorted out (two or three weeks from now), things should calm down and he will be more open to anything else
22:53.54mickeylsame here ,btw.
22:53.58mickeylworking on two projects atm.
22:54.01mickeylbad timing
22:54.10mickeyl~lart mickey for prematurely signing contracts
22:54.11high-rezThe 800lbs gorilla wants his attention.
22:54.35zeckemickeyl: make sabine start hacking!
22:54.43mickeylzecke: hehe, yeah
22:54.48mickeylactually she once hacked
22:54.49*** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2)
22:54.49zeckemickeyl: she should be more capable than both of us
22:54.57mickeyloh she would be, but she absolutely hates it
22:55.06mickeylshe was hacking crypto libraries for about 1 year
22:55.11mickeyland boy she really really loathed it
22:55.50mickeylthe fun part was that we actually had some cool discussions
22:55.58aloril(script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: FeedReader for OpenMoko
22:55.58mickeylgcc, -ldl and stuff
22:56.46mickeylthat script is nice
22:58.39philippe~hail mickeyl for not crumbling under the pressure
22:58.48aptACTION bows down to mickeyl for not crumbling under the pressure and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!"
22:58.48rwhitbymickeyl: now that my LUG demo is over, I can finally switch the Neo to the latest builds :-)
22:58.54mickeyl:))
22:59.04*** part/#openmoko giggls (i=sven@irc.fuchsschwanzdomain.de)
22:59.22mickeylrwhitby: how was your talk received?
22:59.33*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)
22:59.33rwhitbyvery well - were about 30 or so people there.
22:59.41zeckemickeyl: I hate autosize of GtkTreeView
22:59.55zeckemickeyl: either I hardcode for VGA, or I subclass GtkTreeView :}
23:00.00mickeylzecke: me too, can we override that somehow in MokoTreeView ?
23:00.19rwhitbywe had a projector for the ssh session, and a video camera showing the neo screen.
23:00.20mickeylslick
23:00.32mickeyland you used the dialer to call?
23:00.38rwhitbyand then the neo got passed around so everyone could feel the alien technology of the case.
23:00.38zeckemickeyl: yes, I'm searching for something like a QResizeEvent
23:00.50rwhitbyno, I was using Phase0 software.
23:01.06high-rezcounter
23:01.07alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: a week, 5 days 12:58:53 (12.541 +-7.0 days) (591)
23:01.13ElrondYuck. apt has a cat-o-nine-tails?
23:01.22rwhitby(cause the day before the demo I flashed latest, and gsmd hung, so I backed out back to something I knew worked - cmdline gsm
23:01.38Elrondhigh-rez - BTW: I also got no answer from Sean on my last mail to him. ;)
23:01.59mickeylplease bear with Sean, he really gets about 500 mails per da
23:02.01mickeyly
23:02.11rwhitbya number of people got to play with the neo at pizza afterwards too - all people thought it was cheap at USD$350.
23:02.18mickeylatm. due to the guys visiting Taiwan hardware engineering all is very busy
23:02.20philippeNow I can do something more than just some bugzilla work
23:02.26high-rezElrond: I was really hoping to introduce to our future technologies group.
23:02.50mickeylrwhitby: i agree. it's really a good price -- even if the SoC is so slow
23:03.03mickeylP1+ hw will even improve the price/performance ratio
23:03.24rwhitbymickeyl: I presume sean has factored in the hw upgrade pricing into the $350, so the $350 won't change for P1+ or even P2 perhaps.
23:03.47mickeylno idea actually
23:03.56mickeylpricing and marketing is outside my department ;)
23:04.04mickeylbut you could be right
23:04.10mickeylit shouldn't get more costly
23:04.17rwhitbyyeah, pricing usually has no correlation to actual hardware cost in *any* company :-)
23:05.08*** join/#openmoko morpheus (n=morpheus@DSL01.83.171.180.223.ip-pool.NEFkom.net)
23:05.21mickeylyeah
23:05.30mickeylthe BOM's are actually well kept secrets
23:05.39ElrondDoes that mean, that P1 hw will get cheaper or just "run out"?
23:05.59rwhitbyElrond: no one here would be able to answer that, even if they did know.
23:06.32Elrondrwhitby - hehe, some speculations and rumours would also work. ;)
23:06.58mickeylif i learned one thing during all these years, it's not holding off a purchase due to future stuff. even if that meant that sometimes i was irritated. but most of the times i bought when i actually had use for the device, and so it was ok ;)
23:07.59ElrondWell, "use"... I don't _need_ a phone. ;)
23:08.13mickeyldevelopment fun is also a use ;)
23:08.17ElrondSo I can purchase the neo whenever I feel like it.
23:08.20Psihm.. i can never find my way from the wiki to the page that list all the dates for P0 P1 P1+ P2 etc..
23:08.20rwhitbyyep, you either buy something *now* according to features you can hold in your hand today, or you wait forever.
23:08.23*** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@2001:638:602:af01:219:d2ff:fe05:bdce)
23:08.47high-rezI just wish the Neo had 850/1900/2100mhz wcmda.
23:08.47Elrondrwhitby - Hey, I already wait for months for the neo ;o)
23:09.00zeckerwhitby: I'm holding back any purchase and waits for slug's with quad core ARM core :)
23:09.19rwhitbyzecke: hehe
23:10.03ElrondAnd holding back a purchase of a costly garmin gps. ;)
23:10.09zeckerwhitby: two core's for one USB slot :)
23:10.51high-rezmickeyl: So what's the long term plan?  Do you guys expect to have resellers subsidize the device and resell, or are you going just after direct-consumer sales?
23:11.55Elrondhehe, that question is probably on the same "secret"-level as mine. ;)
23:12.27Elrond<rumour>Alternatively, FIC / Openmoko Inc. doesn't even know it themselves</rumour> ;o))
23:13.09mickeylhigh-rez: sorry, marketing is out of my scope
23:13.28rwhitbymickeyl: and I bet you want to keep it that way too :-)
23:13.34mickeylyeah!!!
23:13.39mickeyl:)
23:13.59mickeylit's hard enough for me as a technician sometimes having to argue about why the world needs an open phone
23:14.05high-rezOutside of the US, GSM awareness is such that a good percentage of the population buys their device seperate from their plan, anyways.  The US market, however, is pretty much driven by teh carriers (although that's changing, i see a lot of devices we don't sell using our systems).
23:14.10morpheuswhere can i buy the Neo1973 kaufen.
23:15.45Elrondmorpheus - a) buy and kaufen are the same verb ;o)  b) See FAQ
23:15.47Elrondfaq?
23:15.47alorilSee http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ
23:16.52morpheusElrond: :-) I know -> copy paste ;-)
23:22.01Elrondhigh-rez - In Germany, it's half/half I guess. I got my phone to birthday (without SIM). :)
23:22.02morpheusaloril: thanks
23:22.38*** join/#openmoko nslu2-log_ (n=nslu2-lo@nslu2-linux/dyoung)
23:26.00philippeoff to sleep. Night all
23:26.16ElrondDoes the new charger include an usb-host-chip or what?!  ( http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Phase_0#Solution_5 )
23:27.57mickeylg'night philippe
23:28.40mickeylno
23:28.46mickeylthis is about usb-gadget
23:28.53mickeylor rather usb low level protocol
23:29.00mickeylto negotiate charging current
23:29.20zecke<PROTECTED>
23:29.30mickeylhrh
23:29.33mickeylif you say so :D
23:29.38mickeylthat makes me even less motivated to look at WM
23:29.47mickeylthank god i have enough jobs that i don't need to
23:29.56high-rezmickey: Do you get the digital gsm/fr/hr/arm stream to/from the radio chip, or are you using a DAC to sample the audio for call recording etc?
23:30.21Elrondmickeyl - That usually works via "SET_CONFIGURATION". which implies, that the charger can talk that?!
23:30.39mickeylhigh-rez: TI calypso is connected via analog lines
23:30.47mickeylso if you want to record, you need to AD
23:30.51mickeylon the host processor
23:31.21mickeylElrond: hmm sorry, that's way beyond my depth. please ask LaF0rge when he's back from .tw
23:31.23Elronds/host processor/WM* audio codec, then postprocess digital on host cpu/
23:31.34Elrondmickeyl - Okay.
23:33.45high-rezmickeyl: Can't wait to get asterisk working on it.  :D
23:33.54Elrond*G*
23:34.45*** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128)
23:36.27*** join/#openmoko cedric (n=cedric@mieuh.bluebugs.org)
23:40.48CIA-16openmoko: 03mickey * r1462 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-gsm/ (13 files in 2 dirs):
23:40.48CIA-16openmoko: openmoko-panel-gsm: add non-GPRS signal strength images and use them
23:40.48CIA-16openmoko: NOTE: The GPRS signal strength images are only to be used when a data connection is active
23:40.48CIA-16openmoko: NOTE2: _please_ watch your svn:executable properties
23:41.40*** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins)
23:43.25*** join/#openmoko nslu2-log_ (n=nslu2-lo@nslu2-linux/dyoung)
23:45.34ElrondNight people. :)
23:45.41mickeyln8
23:52.58aloril(script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]]
23:55.13*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)

Generated by irclog2html.pl by Jeff Waugh - find it at freshmeat.net! Modified by Tim Riker to work with blootbot logs, split per channel, etc.