| 00:00.27 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-236-193.eunet.yu) |
| 00:18.49 | *** join/#openmoko daniel_bergamini (n=danieber@72-173-30-123.cust.wildblue.net) |
| 00:22.46 | daniel_bergamini | awfully quiet in here |
| 00:25.29 | Psi_ | *hammer |
| 00:25.34 | daniel_bergamini | didn't seem to do much good Psi_ |
| 00:25.40 | daniel_bergamini | was wondering about that |
| 00:26.41 | daniel_bergamini | the Neo1973 looks like a pretty slick device, can't wait to see all the kinks worked out |
| 00:27.05 | daniel_bergamini | just found out about it yesterday, been researching since |
| 00:27.21 | CM | Might be quiet because it's saturday night here in europe ;) |
| 00:28.37 | daniel_bergamini | that's funny it's saturday night here in the states |
| 00:28.55 | daniel_bergamini | should be closer to sunday morning in europe? |
| 00:28.56 | aloril | daniel_bergamini: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:28.57 | CM | :-P 1.28 here |
| 00:29.02 | CM | So yes, sunday |
| 00:31.10 | daniel_bergamini | aloril they should put that FAQ link right on the main wiki menu |
| 00:31.21 | daniel_bergamini | I've searched around on it a bunch and didn't see it |
| 00:31.26 | Psi_ | its 12:30pm sunday here |
| 00:31.41 | daniel_bergamini | 8:31pm saturday here |
| 00:31.53 | CM | It is called Frequently Asked Questions on the mainpage in the wiki |
| 00:31.57 | daniel_bergamini | psi where you at? |
| 00:32.02 | Psi_ | NZ |
| 00:32.04 | CM | I didn't see it first either, but it's almost at the top |
| 00:32.14 | daniel_bergamini | I'm saying it should be on the main navigation menu |
| 00:32.21 | CM | Ah, ok. True |
| 00:33.03 | daniel_bergamini | what a kick ass project though |
| 00:34.10 | daniel_bergamini | I've been desperately trying to get linux working reliably on my old HP Jornada 720 |
| 00:35.47 | daniel_bergamini | I'm guessing now I can give up and just get a real device |
| 00:37.12 | abraxa_ | Did anyone have Perl be built using the MokoMakefile? It wants to do so for me but I run into a strange 'No rule to make target `more`' error... |
| 00:39.44 | rwhitby | abraxa_: pastebin the full log please |
| 00:40.40 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p549507F9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:42.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r57 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Remove ftdi-eeprom-native from the build, cause it's broken and not generally useful for external developers anyway. |
| 00:43.12 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/399471 is the end of it, I didn't think the succeeding parts before that are of interest |
| 00:43.20 | rwhitby | jebba: ftdi-eeprom-native is badly broken (the build of it that is), and my autoconf foo is not good enough to fix it. |
| 00:44.10 | jebba | rwhitby, ok, thx for the update :) |
| 00:44.23 | rwhitby | abraxa_: no idea - it builds fine here on 32-bit Debian Etch. since it's not openmoko-specific, you should report it in #oe. |
| 00:44.33 | rwhitby | jebba: so I've removed it from the build :-) |
| 00:45.30 | abraxa_ | rwhitby: Thanks for the hint, I'll try my luck there |
| 00:48.07 | daniel_bergamini | so for $625 the whole enchilada can be mine? |
| 00:48.41 | abraxa_ | daniel_bergamini: Yeah but without cheese - that costs extra |
| 00:49.19 | SpeedEvil | (to check the actual size, whittled out of cheese) |
| 00:49.27 | abraxa_ | Show-off =( |
| 00:49.28 | daniel_bergamini | abraxa_: what does the debug board do for me? (yes I have read the description on the wiki) |
| 00:49.54 | vmaster | daniel_bergamini: mostly JTAG, but also a serial console afaik |
| 00:50.31 | SpeedEvil | basically nothing. |
| 00:50.34 | daniel_bergamini | vmaster: so if it crashes on boot or something along those lines I can figure out where? as long as the thing is booting fine, most app dev work can be done with the usb? |
| 00:50.44 | SpeedEvil | Its only normal purpose is if you manage to hose u-boot |
| 00:50.51 | SpeedEvil | you should never need to update u-boot |
| 00:50.59 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 00:51.05 | SpeedEvil | all dev work can be done without jtag |
| 00:51.18 | SpeedEvil | including kernel - you don't use it on a normal PC. |
| 00:51.36 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: you should never need to update u-boot, unless there is a bug in u-boot (as there was in P0 phones) |
| 00:51.41 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 00:52.03 | SpeedEvil | it's not like the kernel, where you update commonly for new features. |
| 00:52.09 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti541210a080-12045.bb.online.no) |
| 00:52.33 | SpeedEvil | And if you do break it, then sending it to someone with a debug board works too. |
| 00:53.52 | vmaster | it's certainly not a must-have, probably not even a nice-to-have for most users, as they wouldn't know what to do with it anyway, but once you need it you're screwed without it |
| 00:54.16 | SpeedEvil | It's pretty much exactly like re-flashing the BIOS in a PC. |
| 00:54.16 | daniel_bergamini | might be worth the money then I guess |
| 00:54.35 | daniel_bergamini | anyone know what the discount structure for the next gen phones will be for the early adopters? |
| 00:54.39 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 00:54.44 | SpeedEvil | it's not been revealed. |
| 00:55.02 | vmaster | daniel_bergamini: if you plan to play with other ARM hardware, too, you can use it as a general JTAG interface - all the signals are available on a std 20pin ARM JTAG header |
| 00:55.09 | SpeedEvil | It's implied that it will be revealed when the P1 availability is revealed. |
| 00:55.27 | SpeedEvil | (the discount structure) |
| 00:55.37 | vmaster | of course there are cheaper JTAG interfaces available |
| 00:55.41 | SpeedEvil | The final price of P1+ or P2 hasn't been revealed either. |
| 00:56.09 | daniel_bergamini | vmaster: that's good to know I believe a few of the other linux projects I work on might work then |
| 00:56.37 | vmaster | well, only ARM7/9 and XScale tbh. - no ARM11 support so far |
| 00:56.52 | vmaster | ah, and Cortex-M3 |
| 00:58.08 | daniel_bergamini | I'm pretty sure the wrt54g is arm based |
| 00:58.36 | vmaster | it's mips afaik |
| 00:58.57 | daniel_bergamini | could be |
| 00:59.34 | daniel_bergamini | I think the Jornada 720 and linksys nslu2 are though |
| 01:00.08 | vmaster | nslu2 is xscale (ixp42x), no idea about the jornada |
| 01:00.18 | *** join/#openmoko Nebukadneza (n=daddel9@HSI-KBW-091-089-006-139.hsi2.kabelbw.de) |
| 01:00.19 | Nebukadneza | hi |
| 01:00.35 | daniel_bergamini | looks like the wrt is a broadcom |
| 01:00.50 | vmaster | xscale's on consumer devices are a bit criticial, as they are often only suitable for flashing, but not for debugging |
| 01:00.57 | daniel_bergamini | though I have heard of JTAG referenced for each of those projects |
| 01:00.59 | vmaster | because of the reset circutiry |
| 01:01.23 | vmaster | yeah, but so far the only software supporting the FT2232 used on the debug board is the OpenOCD, which only supports ARM at this point |
| 01:01.55 | vmaster | if all you want to do is flashing then you're better off with a simple parallel port adapter (wiggler) |
| 01:02.32 | vmaster | the openwince jtag tool allows you to work with almost every processor (mips, powerpc, arm, ...) |
| 01:03.13 | rwhitby | yeah, we use openwince and a parport wiggler for nslu2 reflashes |
| 01:03.50 | rwhitby | but I'm hoping to use the debug board and openocd on an Iomega NAS100d (ixp4xx with 20 pin arm jtag header onboard), assuming it has the reset connected up properly |
| 01:06.08 | daniel_bergamini | part of me says to get one while I still can |
| 01:06.49 | daniel_bergamini | I'd be more inclined to jump on it if it had 802.11g (or n for that matter) |
| 01:07.16 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 01:07.22 | vmaster | that might come with P1+ (P1.5, or whatever you'd call it) |
| 01:07.27 | SpeedEvil | g or n chipsets tend to use more power. |
| 01:07.34 | daniel_bergamini | have all the other hardware issues been worked out? |
| 01:07.43 | SpeedEvil | We think so. |
| 01:07.53 | vmaster | 802.11a/b would be more than enough for a phone? |
| 01:07.58 | SpeedEvil | there are not supposed to be remaining hardware bugs in P1. |
| 01:08.04 | SpeedEvil | a is _rare_. |
| 01:08.09 | SpeedEvil | it will not happen. |
| 01:08.18 | SpeedEvil | 5.4Ghz waveband instead of 2.4 |
| 01:08.26 | daniel_bergamini | I wouldn't need it most of the time, but it would be nice for war driving or getting online where there wasn't gsm signal (but wifi) |
| 01:08.42 | SpeedEvil | There are interesting use-cases. |
| 01:08.55 | daniel_bergamini | yeah a is pretty much a special backhaul use from what I've seen |
| 01:09.02 | SpeedEvil | For example, walking past an AP which you have access to. |
| 01:09.24 | SpeedEvil | Do that, and it downloads all your favourite websites and headlines and mail and ... |
| 01:09.36 | SpeedEvil | without you taking it out of your pocket. |
| 01:09.54 | daniel_bergamini | yeah but that would require it to have wifi on at the time |
| 01:10.16 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 01:10.17 | SpeedEvil | GPS. |
| 01:10.24 | vmaster | hehehe |
| 01:10.34 | SpeedEvil | Blip the GPS every minute or so, more when you're near a point of interest. |
| 01:10.43 | SpeedEvil | turn on wifi when you get close to AP. |
| 01:10.46 | daniel_bergamini | interesting concept |
| 01:10.59 | daniel_bergamini | like pull into your driveway and wifi turns on |
| 01:11.00 | SpeedEvil | the GPS gets a position in under 1s. |
| 01:11.02 | vmaster | yeah, and it gives you another usecase for gps, too :) |
| 01:11.23 | SpeedEvil | so you can turn it on 1/60th of the time and get reasonable positions very cheaply. |
| 01:11.51 | lincoln3 | wrt54g is mips |
| 01:11.59 | aevin | and buy a battery crank as extra gear. |
| 01:12.29 | aevin | *dynamo crank |
| 01:12.42 | SpeedEvil | The battery problems are not bad - as long as you don't keep stuff on all the time. |
| 01:13.52 | aevin | with the OM phone being so functional you're gonna end up using it all the time. |
| 01:14.29 | daniel_bergamini | that's fine, I'm sick of my MDA already |
| 01:17.15 | LetoTo | I decided that anyone who can may for a 5 digit number or less is some company i dont want to receive SMSes from :P |
| 01:17.25 | LetoTo | s/may/pay |
| 01:20.01 | aevin | i'll look forward to add CAPTCHA for everyone that wants to talk to me. i guess they'll be "wtf?!" when they stumble upon it. |
| 01:21.02 | aevin | not that i suffer from any non-human phone call spamming ;) |
| 01:21.25 | abraxa_ | How would you do captchas over the phone? |
| 01:21.38 | SpeedEvil | 'Are you a human? What's 2+2? Press the button |
| 01:21.49 | abraxa_ | Ah, I see |
| 01:21.52 | SpeedEvil | If they get through it, then it rings |
| 01:22.21 | abraxa_ | Makes sense but won't stop call center agents ;) |
| 01:22.39 | SpeedEvil | 'What colour hair do I have' |
| 01:31.04 | daniel_bergamini | I might buy it for the guitar pick alone |
| 01:49.48 | *** join/#openmoko fsniper (n=yalazi@85.101.100.218) |
| 01:49.51 | fsniper | Hi |
| 01:50.00 | abraxa_ | Hellos |
| 01:50.00 | daniel_bergamini | hi fsniper |
| 01:50.49 | fsniper | I'm new to open moko and i fail building with MakeFile |
| 01:51.07 | fsniper | does ftdi-eeprom-native-0.2-r1 need confuse library on host? |
| 01:56.10 | abraxa_ | CIA-7 openmoko: rwhitby * r57 mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Remove ftdi-eeprom-native from the build, cause it's broken and not generally useful for external developers anyway. |
| 01:56.36 | abraxa_ | So I don't think you're supposed to build it in the first place, fsniper |
| 02:00.39 | *** join/#openmoko fsniper (n=yalazi@85.101.254.80) |
| 02:00.43 | fsniper | hi again |
| 02:01.10 | fsniper | I'm new to open moko and i fail building with MakeFile |
| 02:01.10 | fsniper | does ftdi-eeprom-native-0.2-r1 need confuse library on host? |
| 02:01.18 | fsniper | i lost my connection :( |
| 02:01.35 | abraxa_ | CIA-7 openmoko: rwhitby * r57 mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Remove ftdi-eeprom-native from the build, cause it's broken and not generally useful for external developers anyway. |
| 02:01.41 | abraxa_ | So I don't think you're supposed to build it in the first place, fsniper |
| 02:01.54 | fsniper | upps |
| 02:02.38 | fsniper | abraxa_: thanks. So is it a Makefile problem? |
| 02:02.57 | fsniper | abraxa_: i didn't created env from scratch. |
| 02:03.31 | abraxa_ | I'm not sure but downloading the latest makefile might help |
| 02:04.40 | fsniper | abraxa_: i tried it. Maybe i should have look on the makefile |
| 02:05.01 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 02:05.53 | abraxa_ | Well, rwhitby is here anyway so I'm sure he can say a bit more about your issue :) |
| 02:06.43 | fsniper | rwhitby: thnx for the MakeFile first :) |
| 02:07.48 | daniel_bergamini | the current Neo doesn't support EDGE? |
| 02:08.42 | daniel_bergamini | I guess 3G is out of the question then |
| 02:09.31 | abraxa_ | Is EDGE even important? Only 1 out of 4 network carriers in Germany supports it while all 4 support UMTS |
| 02:09.52 | Clint | important in the US |
| 02:10.02 | fsniper | abraxa_: in Turkey no operator supports umts. All has edge |
| 02:10.13 | abraxa_ | I see :o |
| 02:10.19 | daniel_bergamini | yeah I'm in the middle of nowhere and get 2-3 bars of EDGE in my window sills |
| 02:10.41 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 02:10.47 | fsniper | i would like to have wifi instead :) |
| 02:11.05 | abraxa_ | Same, I'm content with GPRS |
| 02:11.32 | daniel_bergamini | It never hurts to have it and not need it |
| 02:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-005.eplus-online.de) |
| 02:12.27 | DukeOfURL | Are there many hotspots in the UK and Europe? Here in the states we have to go to Starbucks and pay T-Mobile for access |
| 02:13.18 | fsniper | DukeOfURL: in Turkey there are mostly un protected home/office wifi networks |
| 02:13.59 | DukeOfURL | Here in the states most businesses have their WiFi locked down. |
| 02:14.16 | daniel_bergamini | I had not heard of UTMS before, it's basically 3GSM |
| 02:14.41 | fsniper | DukeOfURL: here they lock it down when they pay double fee :) |
| 02:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 02:17.59 | daniel_bergamini | thanks for the chat guys, I'll probably pop in and out |
| 02:21.43 | SpeedEvil | Switching is problematic. |
| 02:22.08 | SpeedEvil | Well - in a phone. |
| 02:22.27 | SpeedEvil | it means that you can't simply use pre-bought modules, you've got to make your own. |
| 02:23.13 | SpeedEvil | Or have stupidly large carriers. |
| 02:23.47 | abraxa_ | I was thinking along the side of switching the BT PCB with a WiFi PCB of the same size, for example |
| 02:25.29 | SpeedEvil | That's a bit problematic. |
| 02:25.51 | SpeedEvil | For example, you won't unless you roll your own get one that's guaranteed to remain compatible. |
| 02:26.09 | SpeedEvil | Even if todays one is, next weeks order may simply not be. |
| 02:26.31 | abraxa_ | What would change between those orders? |
| 02:26.47 | SpeedEvil | The vendor re-rolls the design to reduce costs. |
| 02:27.12 | SpeedEvil | It still works as it did before as a USB dongle, but now doesn't fit. |
| 02:27.26 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@65-78-28-38.c3-0.arl-ubr1.sbo-arl.ma.cable.rcn.com) |
| 02:27.51 | SpeedEvil | The problem with phone modules is that they are all different sizes (GSM, 3G, ...) |
| 02:27.54 | abraxa_ | If FIC only purchases the WiFi chipset, puts it on its custom-designed PCB and sells it as an "add-on" then I don't really see a problem |
| 02:28.03 | SpeedEvil | No, true. |
| 02:28.07 | SpeedEvil | But that adds cost. |
| 02:28.21 | abraxa_ | Indeed |
| 02:28.34 | SpeedEvil | It seems likely that it's going to go onto the main board anyway come P1+ |
| 02:29.20 | abraxa_ | Yeah, I'm sure it will in the long run - and you're right about the phone modules... |
| 02:29.31 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately :( |
| 02:29.34 | abraxa_ | That would get tricky or even impossible I bet |
| 02:29.49 | DukeOfURL | I have a UTStarcom F3000 WiFi phone here. Its battery life is about four hours. |
| 02:29.58 | DukeOfURL | http://www.utstar.com/Solutions/Handsets/WiFi/ |
| 02:30.12 | abraxa_ | Call or standby time? |
| 02:30.19 | DukeOfURL | standby |
| 02:30.22 | abraxa_ | Ouch. |
| 02:30.36 | DukeOfURL | Take it off the charger at eight, dead by noon |
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| 02:38.08 | SpeedEvil | Good battery? |
| 02:39.46 | DukeOfURL | They both do the same thing... |
| 02:40.27 | DukeOfURL | A customer ordered them then gave them back to me--I'm stuck with this crap |
| 02:40.52 | DukeOfURL | Makes me sensitive to the battery issues on the Neo |
| 02:41.09 | DukeOfURL | We need to get through a 16 hour day, at least |
| 02:41.34 | DukeOfURL | at the minimum |
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| 02:44.55 | SpeedEvil | Can'y you return them to the supplier? |
| 02:54.21 | peepsalot | how hard is it to switch between different connections? for example using a browser over BT, then switching to over USB, Wifi, etc |
| 02:54.34 | peepsalot | assuming they all exist in hardware |
| 02:54.37 | fsniper | Cool! I built openmoko for fic. But i don't have one! |
| 02:55.22 | SpeedEvil | It's pretty much a routing problem. |
| 02:55.42 | SpeedEvil | If it's just using a browser, then it's pretty easy. |
| 02:56.04 | SpeedEvil | you set the default route to the preferred net device. |
| 02:56.22 | SpeedEvil | where preferred is highest signal * desirability for each device |
| 02:56.35 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.101.192.70) |
| 02:56.43 | peepsalot | mail client, etc. i mean, can there be (or is there already) some program that allows you to pick from all available connections, and all other software will use that connection? |
| 02:56.52 | SpeedEvil | route |
| 02:57.20 | SpeedEvil | if you want long-running connections that seamlessly transfer, you pretty much need to do VPN. |
| 02:58.04 | peepsalot | sorry, i'm not very good with linux networking. so you are saying the linux command route could handle all this? |
| 02:58.13 | SpeedEvil | pretty much. |
| 02:58.41 | peepsalot | so all we need is a nice touchpad gui frontend for it |
| 02:58.42 | SpeedEvil | you simply change the default route to your preferred connection device with a small script that polls for the 'best' one every second or few. |
| 02:59.35 | SpeedEvil | If you've got a USB-net signal, always use that, if you've got wifi with signal >n, use that, otherwise bluetooth, and then GPRS with the user OKing each packet if they are paying. |
| 03:06.15 | peepsalot | hmm, OKing each packet seems excessive for some apps. maybe OKing all packets for a particular app for a time period |
| 03:06.26 | peepsalot | or a transfer limit |
| 03:08.00 | peepsalot | i have a phone with a java google maps app on it. By default i had to approve each connection. so every time I adjusted the map in any direction, I would have to approve the connection again |
| 03:08.07 | peepsalot | got annoying real fast |
| 03:08.18 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 03:08.37 | peepsalot | had to seem edit IIRC to make it accept the app for the whole session |
| 03:08.53 | SpeedEvil | In some cases though, people are paying $(us).5/K, which is when that might be appropriate. |
| 03:09.32 | peepsalot | so is there a way to limit connections depending on what process is asking for them? |
| 03:09.46 | SpeedEvil | You're asking meaningless questions at the moment. |
| 03:09.54 | SpeedEvil | The phone is basically a small linux PC. |
| 03:09.54 | peepsalot | :( |
| 03:10.12 | SpeedEvil | with some sort-of-functioning prototype software on it. |
| 03:10.53 | SpeedEvil | It's going to be a fairly long time - months - before these questions really become relevant - when there is a sensible range of mostly working software on it. |
| 03:11.28 | SpeedEvil | Wander over the wiki wishlist, and apps pages, and if you see important features missing, add them. |
| 03:11.55 | peepsalot | yeah, i guess i'm just wondering if that software or something close to it exists. or if it will need to be built from scratch. isn't OM taking and using a lot of things that already exist in OE? |
| 03:12.03 | SpeedEvil | But asking 'can it do' isn't really relevant at the moment - as it can't. |
| 03:12.14 | SpeedEvil | It depends. |
| 03:12.41 | SpeedEvil | The phone apps are really pretty custom wrappers over in some cases more general apps. |
| 03:12.52 | SpeedEvil | Some will be just ported versions of more general apps. |
| 03:14.23 | SpeedEvil | OE is mostly a tool to make a 'distribution' for an architecture not on your PC. |
| 03:15.10 | SpeedEvil | So you can easily download it, and suitable scripts, hit 'go' and out pops an image you can load onto the neo. |
| 03:15.25 | SpeedEvil | It's not got end-user software on. |
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| 03:54.11 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List]] |
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| 04:55.11 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Game]] [[Footer]] |
| 05:31.01 | aevin | counter |
| 05:31.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 06:28:58 (16.270 +-7.0 days) (560) |
| 05:34.30 | aloril2 | one more day and counter is back to where it was |
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| 05:55.11 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wishlist:Games]] [[Talk:Main_Menu]] |
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| 06:41.30 | Sup3rkiddo | hi everyone..whom do i contact for the Google SoC? |
| 06:41.30 | aloril | Sup3rkiddo: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 06:55.11 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
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| 07:26.04 | Sup3rkiddo | hi all..who is incharge of SoC? |
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| 07:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
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| 08:19.04 | tuxmaniac | counter |
| 08:19.05 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 03:40:55 (16.153 +-7.0 days) (561) |
| 08:24.16 | PBeck | hi |
| 08:26.50 | koen|lisboa | heh |
| 08:26.56 | koen|lisboa | http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/gsm/files/gsmd?rev=1394&view=auto |
| 08:27.08 | gambler | counter |
| 08:27.09 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 03:32:52 (16.148 +-7.0 days) (562) |
| 08:27.13 | koen|lisboa | why does FIC think people can make calls with a GPS??!?!?! |
| 08:30.07 | xkr47 | lol what |
| 08:30.11 | pH5 | koen|lisboa: nice mixture of ${GPS_DEV}, ${GSM_DEV} and /dev/ttySAC0 :) |
| 08:30.23 | PBeck | koen|lisboa: gsm not gps ... |
| 08:30.38 | koen|lisboa | PBeck: that's not what that file says |
| 08:30.44 | xkr47 | :) |
| 08:30.54 | koen|lisboa | "echo "No ${GPS_DEV} device, aborting gsmd startup."" |
| 08:31.09 | koen|lisboa | must be a pretty cool AGPS chipset ;) |
| 08:31.50 | PBeck | koen|lisboa: ok my mistake :P |
| 08:32.17 | koen|lisboa | fixed in OE |
| 08:32.36 | koen|lisboa | people still building from svn will continue to get broken stuff |
| 08:33.07 | PBeck | GSM_DEV="/dev/ttySAC0" |
| 08:33.15 | PBeck | thats only a typo, or? |
| 08:33.31 | koen|lisboa | no, that one is actually correct |
| 08:33.44 | koen|lisboa | serial device names on ARM will get fixed in kernel 2.5.x |
| 08:34.01 | koen|lisboa | (no, that's not a typo) |
| 08:34.09 | PBeck | the variable is right |
| 08:34.22 | PBeck | but we have a typo in the phrase you posted |
| 08:35.11 | Hopscotch | good morning |
| 08:35.25 | PBeck | hi Hopscotch |
| 08:36.21 | koen|lisboa | lets see how many bugs I can fix while waiting for my plane |
| 08:36.31 | koen|lisboa | 5 hours and 54 minutes left... |
| 08:36.49 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 08:37.01 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:37.47 | PBeck | koen|lisboa: :) |
| 08:38.19 | koen|lisboa | bluetooth on the neo will get fixed in ~2 weeks |
| 08:38.54 | koen|lisboa | as soon as Marcel is back in .de |
| 08:39.28 | Sup3rkiddo | guys...a box with amd xp 2000+ and 768 megs of RAM is enough for poking around openmoko..right? |
| 08:39.30 | pH5 | koen|lisboa: what is broken? |
| 08:39.46 | koen|lisboa | pH5: every neo has the same MAC address for starters.... |
| 08:41.46 | guaqua | Sup3rkiddo: the more power, the faster the builds...but there's no reason that shouldn't work for dev |
| 08:42.08 | Sup3rkiddo | guaqua: oh ok..thanks |
| 08:42.27 | Sup3rkiddo | koen|lisboa: check userfriendly today...theres a protoype |
| 08:44.11 | pH5 | koen|lisboa: I see. |
| 08:45.16 | koen|lisboa | pH5: xorg 7.3 will use D-Bus and HAL for hotplug and config stuff |
| 08:45.37 | guaqua | open source google phone? |
| 08:46.31 | pH5 | koen|lisboa: yeah, I'm looking forward to it. |
| 08:47.00 | pH5 | has anybody tried to use avahi-autoipd for IP address configuration yet? |
| 08:47.08 | koen|lisboa | not yet |
| 08:54.19 | *** part/#openmoko ML-37 (n=^_^@tuxhacker/pdpc.supporter.sustaining.loft306) |
| 08:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[User_talk:Parag0n]] [[Wishlist:Games]] |
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| 09:08.21 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@teacheradsl241.eduhi.at) |
| 09:11.12 | Hopscotch | ok... some beginner question here: |
| 09:11.25 | Hopscotch | i want to build oe with the openmoko overlay |
| 09:11.39 | Hopscotch | is there some page in the wiki were the whole setup-process is explained... |
| 09:11.52 | Hopscotch | either i'm blind or most of the pages are out of date, etc... |
| 09:12.49 | Magon | Hopscotch: try MokoMakefile |
| 09:12.50 | guaqua | mokomakefile |
| 09:13.25 | Hopscotch | ah, i see - someone else had the same problem :) |
| 09:14.15 | Hopscotch | ok - let's start over: rm -Rf oe |
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| 09:19.00 | *** join/#openmoko mandarino (n=embo@121.pool85-50-105.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 09:19.06 | mandarino | Hello :) |
| 09:19.37 | mandarino | Eo SpeedEvil |
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| 09:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] [[Talk:WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
| 09:58.34 | *** part/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
| 10:01.41 | koen|lisboa | pH5: and the bluetooth <> audio connections are not setup right in the driver yet |
| 10:02.24 | mandarino | :? |
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| 10:42.56 | mandarino | uhms... |
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| 10:45.48 | zecke|hangover | mickey|guests: as of python-openmoko. I think python works fairly well on ARM, and we have plenty of modules in OE. So this is more like a documentation project :) |
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| 10:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[MokoMakefile]] |
| 10:58.25 | wbx | fg |
| 10:58.45 | wbx | oops. |
| 11:04.04 | *** part/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@teacheradsl241.eduhi.at) |
| 11:08.41 | *** join/#openmoko terre1 (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 11:08.48 | _buz | counter |
| 11:08.49 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 00:51:11 (16.036 +-7.0 days) (563) |
| 11:09.12 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492B989.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:09.16 | Hadaka | oo, not long |
| 11:09.26 | _buz | mhh my birthday is in second week of april |
| 11:09.46 | Hadaka | so it's probable to get the phone in time :) |
| 11:10.11 | _buz | well i'm much more tempted by P1+ neo |
| 11:10.33 | *** join/#openmoko wbx_ (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-005.eplus-online.de) |
| 11:10.34 | mandarino | jejeje |
| 11:11.09 | _buz | i guess it depends on the discount they will give for p1+ |
| 11:11.26 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:11.34 | rwhitby | mickey|guests: ping - typo in gsmd init script 'if [ -e "${GSM_POW} ]' |
| 11:11.44 | rwhitby | (missing terminating '"') |
| 11:13.51 | mandarino | Hadaka: where are you from? |
| 11:13.55 | Hadaka | mandarino: finland |
| 11:15.06 | mandarino | uh :P Nokiero :P |
| 11:15.28 | Hadaka | mandarino: heh, well I *have* worked there when I was young |
| 11:16.18 | mandarino | In wich department? |
| 11:17.32 | Hadaka | mandarino: NMT, AD side, was like 10 years ago |
| 11:18.04 | Hadaka | but alas, I gotta flee, going swimming |
| 11:18.04 | Hadaka | ta ta |
| 11:18.21 | mandarino | Cool! |
| 11:18.49 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
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| 11:36.39 | Mandarino | Res |
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| 11:40.05 | Mandarino | counter |
| 11:40.05 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 2 days 00:19:54 (16.014 +-7.0 days) (564) |
| 11:40.25 | Mandarino | help |
| 11:40.44 | Mandarino | terrex: eres español? |
| 11:40.52 | terrex | si Mandarino |
| 11:40.57 | Mandarino | xD |
| 11:41.01 | Mandarino | rLz |
| 11:41.01 | terrex | por? |
| 11:41.01 | terrex | xDD |
| 11:41.06 | *** join/#openmoko fsniper (n=yalazi@85.101.255.13) |
| 11:41.10 | fsniper | Hi |
| 11:41.17 | Mandarino | La DNS de Ono te delató xD |
| 11:41.18 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:41.44 | terrex | JaJaJaJaJaJa |
| 11:42.15 | Mandarino | Qué te trajo por aqu� |
| 11:44.05 | terrex | pos una noticia en barrapunto jajja |
| 11:44.18 | terrex | esk kiero un pda movil gps que no tenga windows X-D |
| 11:45.38 | Mandarino | Probaste el A780 ? |
| 11:45.39 | terrex | nop |
| 11:45.39 | terrex | de ke marca? |
| 11:46.08 | Magon | mickeyl: do you have a minute? |
| 11:46.13 | mickeyl | sure, go ahea |
| 11:46.14 | mickeyl | d |
| 11:46.35 | Mandarino | Motorola |
| 11:46.51 | Magon | you have mentioned that for SoC is also suitable some openmoko-libs work |
| 11:47.11 | mickeyl | yes, we have some missing features that would need to be implemented |
| 11:47.31 | mickeyl | if you can propose interesting new features we're all ears as well |
| 11:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lisboa (n=koen@213.63.0.186) |
| 11:48.00 | Magon | my problem is oposite |
| 11:48.09 | Mandarino | mickeyl: you are always all ears :P |
| 11:48.13 | Magon | i want to code something for openmoko using SoC |
| 11:48.22 | Magon | but i doesnt know what exaxtly is needed |
| 11:48.44 | Magon | so if you point me to something i will be glade t odo it |
| 11:49.19 | Magon | and do the To-Do later..i need good todo for my personal use |
| 11:49.30 | *** join/#openmoko Morgaine (n=morgaine@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust961.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 11:50.04 | fsniper | i found a bug with glibc-intermediate package is it gnulibc? or something else? |
| 11:50.57 | mickeyl | Magon: have a look at the bug tracker |
| 11:51.04 | mickeyl | see openmoko-libs product |
| 11:51.24 | Magon | mickeyl: i found there just 6 bugs...let me have better look |
| 11:51.54 | fsniper | :) |
| 11:51.59 | mickeyl | there is something like |
| 11:52.01 | mickeyl | add dbus API |
| 11:52.04 | mickeyl | add statusbar API |
| 11:52.06 | mickeyl | etc. |
| 11:52.19 | *** part/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 11:52.23 | Magon | i am a bit more familiar with trac than bugzilla |
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| 11:54.39 | Magon | mickeyl: btw: are you considering being mentor? |
| 11:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Buying_Interest_List]] |
| 11:55.30 | mickeyl | Magon: I'm afraid I need to, yeah |
| 11:55.41 | Magon | :-) |
| 11:56.34 | Magon | ok..all of the bugs are from you...so let see |
| 11:56.46 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: any ETA on merging svn completely into .dev? I'm getting a bit tired of seeing random people checking in broken stuff into openmoko svn |
| 11:57.37 | Magon | btw: openmoko head is in openmoko tree or in OE already? |
| 11:59.16 | koen|lisboa | Magon: it's in OE |
| 11:59.27 | Magon | koen|lisboa: thx |
| 11:59.38 | koen|lisboa | if you want a working gsmd, don't use svn |
| 12:00.16 | Magon | koen|lisboa: no need for that one, i need head for developing and bugfixing |
| 12:01.52 | Magon | mickeyl: footer with dbus api seems promising |
| 12:02.09 | mickeyl | koen|lisboa: I'm afraidsorry, but this won't happen soon. |
| 12:02.39 | mickeyl | i don't have time to start the discussion now, but we can't track a floating .dev now |
| 12:02.39 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: ok, I will continue to cherrypick the few good bits |
| 12:02.42 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 12:02.56 | mickeyl | we really try to merge frequently until the complete merge |
| 12:02.57 | koen|lisboa | you might want to fix gsmd in svn |
| 12:03.06 | zecke|hangover | mickeyl: I don't have a strong opinion on python-openmoko and 'bindings'. I think OE offers a great amount of python modules already |
| 12:03.07 | mickeyl | is it broken? |
| 12:03.24 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: severely |
| 12:03.25 | zecke|hangover | mickeyl: so his project will be more documenting how to ipkg install them and how to do development |
| 12:03.48 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 12:03.58 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: have a look at http://www.openembedded.org/viewmtn/diff.psp?id1=65373f0b51c390a7fb00a61b6a92e0f30d2c1eda&id2=dc7b99f90d2f57f9c74a1f48545658b2d9fd46a4 |
| 12:04.16 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: unless you want to tell me the gps chip can do gsm ;) |
| 12:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 12:04.46 | mickeyl | heh |
| 12:04.49 | mickeyl | that's our new super chip |
| 12:04.50 | mickeyl | *cough* |
| 12:04.52 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 12:04.52 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: marcel and brad will start working on bluetooth as soon as they get near their neos |
| 12:05.06 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 12:05.10 | mickeyl | marcel should already have one!? |
| 12:05.10 | rwhitby | mickeyl: also a typo in gsmd init script 'if [ -e "${GSM_POW} ]' |
| 12:05.22 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: marcel will be in .br for another week |
| 12:05.28 | mickeyl | ah |
| 12:06.24 | Magon | does anyone think that StatusBar(Footer) app is not worth of SoC? |
| 12:07.54 | *** join/#openmoko carrumba (n=jemen@194.208.66.47) |
| 12:08.04 | mickeyl | i think it's worthy. it's not that trivial. the client side API in libmokoui is probably easy, however since the footer app needs to keep do the demultiplexing, it's an interesting task |
| 12:08.54 | Magon | interesting is that i would have to write a lot of dbus bindings |
| 12:09.09 | rwhitby | mickeyl: is it just me, or have the latest OM builds lost rxvt running on boot, and no panel thingos for keyboard and battery and stuff. |
| 12:09.30 | mickeyl | rwhitby: yeah. while i was away, LaF0rge changed the matchbox session file for some reason ... |
| 12:09.38 | mickeyl | i'll put this all back asap |
| 12:09.47 | mickeyl | right now my focus is gsm and dialer though |
| 12:09.52 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: IOW, you will sync with .dev ;) |
| 12:10.00 | mickeyl | yes ;) |
| 12:10.31 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 12:11.00 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: AFAIK a mentor has to apply and the admin needs to approve |
| 12:11.05 | mickeyl | ah, that way |
| 12:11.05 | bmidgley | koen|lisboa: still traveling? |
| 12:11.15 | koen|lisboa | bmidgley: stuck at lisbon for 8 hours..... |
| 12:11.27 | bmidgley | ouch |
| 12:11.41 | koen|lisboa | bmidgley: yes |
| 12:13.47 | koen|lisboa | and all the bookstores here only have stuff in portugese |
| 12:14.05 | Magon | 2500 words abstract...that is crazy |
| 12:15.02 | koen|lisboa | Magon: editing it is pretty tedious, so get it right the first time |
| 12:15.40 | Magon | ok...but do i need to write 2500 words? |
| 12:15.53 | Magon | characters.... |
| 12:16.17 | koen|lisboa | last year it was a 'hint' not a 'rule' |
| 12:16.30 | koen|lisboa | haven't looked at this years version |
| 12:17.30 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=fjjfjf@mauve.plus.com) |
| 12:17.37 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: speaking about gsm and dialer, did the collabra guys contact you yet? |
| 12:17.44 | mickeyl | no |
| 12:19.00 | Magon | does the devices of phase0 have working GSM? |
| 12:19.01 | koen|lisboa | mickeyl: Robot101 had some ideas about how to implement sms |
| 12:19.54 | koen|lisboa | (inside the telepathy framework) |
| 12:20.06 | rwhitby | Magon: my phase0 gsm works fine. some don't apparently. |
| 12:20.51 | Magon | wont some one write me an abstract? it seems to be more difficult than the application |
| 12:21.30 | mickeyl | koen|lisboa: sounds good. i have no idea who is in charge of SMS at this point of time, IIRC one in fic.tw, so best throw this via openmoko-devel or bugzilla |
| 12:22.08 | koen|lisboa | Robot101: now you know what to do :) |
| 12:26.46 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.101.192.70) |
| 12:27.19 | Magon | http://www.ms.mff.cuni.cz/~kupem6am/abstract.txt - good so far ? |
| 12:28.59 | koen|lisboa | Magon: the first sentence is missing an 'a' |
| 12:29.28 | Magon | koen|lisboa: better? |
| 12:29.38 | koen|lisboa | yes |
| 12:29.58 | Magon | problem..what next? :-) |
| 12:30.06 | vmaster | interactions has only one 'r' |
| 12:30.25 | Magon | reloa |
| 12:30.26 | Magon | d |
| 12:30.46 | Magon | i am not native speaker..it is probably easy to notice |
| 12:30.55 | vmaster | and there's no plural of information |
| 12:31.12 | Magon | vmaster: oh..good point i completly forgot that |
| 12:31.12 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Reminder: Google SoC application deadline in 6 days |
| 12:31.39 | SpeedEvil | 'switching between the two most-' |
| 12:32.04 | SpeedEvil | 'catches events from the environment' or 'catches environmental events' |
| 12:32.18 | SpeedEvil | displays current status |
| 12:32.22 | SpeedEvil | of the device |
| 12:32.52 | Magon | SpeedEvil: ok the i got the second..but have no idea what is wrong in the former |
| 12:33.03 | SpeedEvil | sorry - which one? |
| 12:33.24 | Magon | 13:31 < SpeedEvil> 'switching between the two most-' |
| 12:33.52 | SpeedEvil | you have "switching between two most-recent applications' |
| 12:34.02 | SpeedEvil | to me, it flows better with 'the' in the middle. |
| 12:34.04 | Magon | o i see |
| 12:34.35 | SpeedEvil | Also 'most of the interactions >are< through d-bus services' |
| 12:35.02 | Magon | that was stupind mistake.... |
| 12:36.01 | Magon | you can get good image of you school system...i have best marks in english :-) |
| 12:36.19 | SpeedEvil | Also - indications is not a commonly used word. |
| 12:36.20 | Magon | next problem..what to add? |
| 12:36.34 | vmaster | "displaying specific information" - do you mean 'application specific information'? |
| 12:36.34 | SpeedEvil | dialogs? I dunno. It's not incorrect. |
| 12:36.56 | Magon | vmaster: yes |
| 12:37.16 | vmaster | and there's still a "the" missing in "current status of device" |
| 12:38.12 | Magon | after each note reload pls |
| 12:38.43 | Magon | vmaster: that was not to you...i hadn't is corrected |
| 12:38.43 | SpeedEvil | I'd lose the 'also' before 'provides an API' |
| 12:39.29 | Magon | ok..but what next..i have 2500 characters to use..that seems like 200 at most |
| 12:39.43 | Magon | but do anyone know what is this for? |
| 12:40.19 | Magon | mickeyl: do you need even more specific detailed info ?(displayed only to mentors) |
| 12:41.12 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Reminder: Google SoC application deadline in 6 days |
| 12:41.30 | mickeyl | sorry, I can't afford time to read now |
| 12:41.43 | mickeyl | you'll be able to refine it afterwards if it shouldn't be sufficient |
| 12:41.48 | mickeyl | so just go ahead for the first run |
| 12:41.49 | mickeyl | :) |
| 12:42.14 | Magon | mickeyl: i am jsut writting the public part..and have no idea what to write to the private one |
| 12:42.26 | mickeyl | i wish i could remember from last year |
| 12:42.29 | Magon | you probably know more than me what i will be writting |
| 12:42.47 | Magon | btw: it is my first time at SoC |
| 12:43.08 | mickeyl | welcome on board. i've been a mentor before, but never was a student :) |
| 12:43.18 | Magon | :-) |
| 12:43.20 | mickeyl | (at GSoC at least) |
| 12:43.43 | Magon | i suppose you have been a student..at some school at least :-) |
| 12:43.58 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 12:44.07 | mickeyl | 1993-2001 |
| 12:44.12 | Magon | :-) |
| 12:44.19 | mickeyl | 8 fun years w/ computer science |
| 12:44.38 | Magon | yes...i am having something like that now |
| 12:45.00 | Magon | but as always..students are always short of money |
| 12:46.13 | Mandarino | SpeedEvil: Good morning :P |
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| 12:52.49 | Magon | vmaster, SpeedEvil: what about that(just one sentence added to end) |
| 12:53.08 | guaqua | who is in charge of the Google SoC for OpenMoko? |
| 12:53.22 | Magon | i have no idea ;-) |
| 12:53.39 | Magon | but i probably found my mentor |
| 12:56.10 | bmidgley | koen|lisboa: fwiw, no neo here still. hoping it would be waiting for me |
| 12:56.24 | koen|lisboa | bmidgley: ah, too bad |
| 12:58.40 | Magon | so you says that the abstract is correctable? |
| 12:59.46 | Magon | how the proccess of choosing projects work? |
| 12:59.58 | koen|lisboa | Magon: iirc it was last year |
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| 13:07.30 | Magon | there is easy way for changing abstract...but how the hell change detailed info? |
| 13:12.31 | zecke|hangover | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:12.51 | mickeyl | heh |
| 13:13.03 | mickeyl | at this point of overload you shouldn't even consider asking me |
| 13:13.09 | zecke|hangover | hehe |
| 13:13.12 | zecke|hangover | right |
| 13:14.00 | _buz | koen|away: i think double listing is partly because nobody really knows what is truly gpl friendly and what blob |
| 13:14.38 | Magon | mickeyl: application send |
| 13:17.37 | guaqua | who are the mentors in the moko community? i'd be interested in backup solutions and with contact syncing etc? |
| 13:19.29 | _buz | i think sync is being tackled by funambol |
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| 13:20.23 | guaqua | okay |
| 13:20.49 | guaqua | how about that mapping application? |
| 13:21.47 | Magon | how many students can openmoko have? |
| 13:22.02 | guaqua | i think it's about mentors |
| 13:22.10 | guaqua | google pays the bill |
| 13:22.13 | Magon | :-) |
| 13:23.49 | vmaster | guaqua: is there any free provider of map data? |
| 13:24.37 | guaqua | openstreetmaps is one, i think |
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| 13:37.19 | guaqua | i'd really like to do a lot for the openmoko project, but i've mostly done programming in python and java |
| 13:37.37 | guaqua | and at the moment python bindings are on the todo-list :S |
| 13:39.30 | vmaster | heh, might be the right time to learn a real programming language ;) |
| 13:39.50 | guaqua | http://openlayers.org/gallery/ |
| 13:39.55 | guaqua | real :F |
| 13:40.03 | guaqua | i've done some c and c++ |
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| 13:50.15 | koen|lisboa | heh |
| 13:50.39 | koen|lisboa | it seems the python-openmoko dude started a project without checking the existing stuff and now gets all pissy about it |
| 13:51.24 | koen|lisboa | so it's on par with the java-openmoko project |
| 13:51.34 | koen|lisboa | no code, just lots of noise |
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| 13:53.01 | guaqua | what would work on the bindings involve? writing a python module? |
| 13:53.39 | koen|lisboa | guaqua: extending the work zecke already did |
| 13:56.12 | aloril | (script) openmoko-devel: "Michael 'Mickey' Lauer" <mickey at openmoko.org> Re: python bindings |
| 13:56.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1395 10/trunk/oe/packages/gsm/ (files/gsmd libgsmd_svn.bb): oe/gsm: fix remainders of gpsd start script. taken from OE upstream |
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| 14:11.08 | daxxar | aloril: counter? |
| 14:11.08 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 2 weeks, a day 21:48:51 (15.909 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-02); 5 months, 4 weeks (181.909 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (565) |
| 14:11.16 | daxxar | \o/ |
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| 14:18.46 | Moo^ | muahahaa. this is hilarious (at least my point of view) http://scuba.kapsi.fi/temp/SneakPictureOfAslidePresentedAtMotorola.JPG |
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| 15:09.30 | zecke | guaqua: don't be shy ask here |
| 15:10.08 | guaqua | okay |
| 15:10.30 | guaqua | well in general, what does the python-openmoko do in practice? |
| 15:10.44 | zecke | guaqua: libmokoui is the framework library used to create OpenMoko applications. Each widget/class is a GObject |
| 15:10.45 | guaqua | provides python bindings to the gtk? |
| 15:11.01 | guaqua | so libmokoui is the python library? |
| 15:11.14 | zecke | guaqua: GObjects can be easily wrapped into other languaged like Python (http://www-128.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-wrap/) |
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| 15:11.38 | guaqua | does the work basically mean adding more gobjects then or? |
| 15:12.16 | zecke | guaqua: it is mainly documenting the classes, keeping track of the libmokoui development and writing python examples |
| 15:12.24 | guaqua | mm |
| 15:12.25 | guaqua | okay |
| 15:13.41 | guaqua | so is python-openmoko-0.2 already usable? |
| 15:14.29 | zecke | guaqua: I was able to show a MokoWindow, I have 0.3 which wraps every mokoui class |
| 15:14.41 | zecke | and I'm waiting for the svn to work to import it then |
| 15:14.51 | guaqua | okay |
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| 15:15.53 | zecke | guaqua: the main issues are: Writing examples, making the wrappers more Gtk'ish, and keeping track of libmokoui changes |
| 15:16.45 | guaqua | and documentation |
| 15:17.23 | gambler | how hard is it too get started with openmoko? |
| 15:17.28 | gambler | s/too/to |
| 15:17.36 | gambler | the sw dev environment |
| 15:18.41 | loufoque | get started and you'll see |
| 15:18.51 | guaqua | gambler: see mokomakefile |
| 15:18.57 | guaqua | it's not hard |
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| 15:28.41 | gambler | guaqua: how long did it take u in hours |
| 15:30.06 | guaqua | maybe 6 |
| 15:30.19 | guaqua | this is not a high-end machine however |
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| 15:42.52 | antenagora | counter |
| 15:42.52 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, a day 20:17:07 (15.845 +-7.0 days) (566) |
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| 16:14.20 | _buz | is it normal that monotone sits there for like 5minutes at a time during make setup in mokomakefile |
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| 16:17.42 | abraxa_ | buz: Seems that way as I experienced similar behavior |
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| 16:18.15 | _buz | mhh maybe OE SCM is overloaded or something like that |
| 16:18.20 | _buz | cant be my cpu or bandwidth |
| 16:21.04 | kart_ | will openmoko available in India? :) |
| 16:21.04 | aloril | kart_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
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| 16:51.57 | peepsalot | Does anyone have experience with rendering svg on a device like this. I want to write an app that would ideally use SVG for it's main display, but I don't know how much processor is necessary for this |
| 16:53.02 | peepsalot | mainly i need to be able rotate an svg image without it looking too jerky |
| 16:53.37 | peepsalot | i'm just wondering if going that route would be wasting my time |
| 16:53.48 | peepsalot | ...if the processor can't handle it |
| 16:53.59 | _ASK | well, it's probably going to be CPU expensive, because SVG allows for non regular shapes |
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| 16:55.34 | peepsalot | i'm guessing a lot of FP operations are involved in rendering svg too |
| 16:56.59 | _ASK | well, i suppose you would use an already written SVG engine, will you? |
| 16:57.23 | _ASK | because i don't think you're going to write your own; if you were to, you could do it with fixed point math |
| 16:57.31 | peepsalot | yes, i was thinking cairo |
| 16:57.39 | peepsalot | that is the only one I really know of anyways |
| 16:59.26 | carrumba | was hast du noch vor? |
| 16:59.27 | aloril | carrumba: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 17:01.08 | _ASK | wer? |
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| 17:03.35 | _ASK | peepsalot: you can try using a web browser |
| 17:04.20 | peepsalot | _ASK, what do you mean? using it for what? |
| 17:04.31 | _ASK | the speed of SVG rendering |
| 17:04.53 | peepsalot | well, i don't have a device to test it on |
| 17:04.59 | pH5 | peepsalot: I think cairo uses 16.16 fixed point internally (mostly). |
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| 17:34.29 | Moo^^^ | pH5: generally, did cairo have 3d accelerated backend? |
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| 17:40.28 | DukeOfURL | The u-boot NAND is separate from the 64MB NAND Flash, correct? |
| 17:41.05 | pH5 | Moo^^^: the glitz backend uses opengl |
| 17:41.16 | pH5 | DukeOfURL: incorrect :) |
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| 17:41.43 | Moo^^^ | pH5: thank you! I wasn |
| 17:41.59 | Moo^^^ | pH5: thank you! I wasn't sure whether I head survived from the yesterday's relaxing |
| 17:42.39 | DukeOfURL | The SoC docs say "NAND Flash bootloader". How does that fit in with the Neo design? |
| 17:43.08 | DukeOfURL | Or is it the same NAND flash? |
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| 17:43.54 | balrog-kun | no, it's the same NAND, there's only one chip |
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| 17:44.39 | DukeOfURL | So we'll be using the NAND flash controller on the SoC chip to access NAND? No internal flash on the SoC? |
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| 17:47.29 | DukeOfURL | Java is like C++ without the guns and knives. I realize Java has a huge footprint for embedded devices. What are your thoughts on programming languages for user-space apps? |
| 17:47.55 | balrog-kun | DukeOfURL: there's no internal flash |
| 17:49.58 | MacNorth | Duke: bash, baby ;) |
| 17:50.07 | DukeOfURL | heh |
| 17:50.18 | Vegar | why not C? |
| 17:50.52 | MacNorth | C is nice; C++, too |
| 17:51.06 | DukeOfURL | I can do C, but what higher level languages do you like? Perl? Python? |
| 17:51.20 | Stephmw | DukeOfURL: what's your definition of 'huge' and which Java? J2SE? J2ME? |
| 17:51.32 | DukeOfURL | J@SE |
| 17:51.36 | MacNorth | i like python |
| 17:51.47 | DukeOfURL | J2SE. Never user J2ME. |
| 17:51.49 | Vegar | perl is so hackish |
| 17:51.57 | xkr47 | perl is so cute |
| 17:52.02 | Stephmw | DukeOfURL: ok, then yes, it's too big. J2ME is better suited |
| 17:52.05 | Vegar | python rocks |
| 17:52.10 | SpeedEvil | Perl is so everything. |
| 17:52.11 | Vegar | it can do anything so easily |
| 17:52.19 | SpeedEvil | Awk is good for quick hacks. |
| 17:52.22 | xkr47 | python is nice but I don't like whitespace languages |
| 17:52.24 | MacNorth | perl _is_ so everything |
| 17:52.27 | SpeedEvil | For text processing. |
| 17:52.30 | Stephmw | Perl can do everything... 1000 different ways. |
| 17:52.39 | Stephmw | 999 of which can't be maintained |
| 17:52.43 | SpeedEvil | I've even done realtime DSP in awk - that was silly :) |
| 17:52.47 | xkr47 | Stephmw, :D |
| 17:52.49 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@atheist.ebb.org) |
| 17:53.04 | MacNorth | awkward :) |
| 17:53.08 | xkr47 | Stephmw, the good thing about perl is that 999/1000.. every time you look at your code, you have to rewrite it -> better code :D |
| 17:53.17 | MacNorth | heh |
| 17:53.36 | Hadaka | I wonder how critical disk footprint/memory footprint/speed is going to be |
| 17:53.41 | DukeOfURL | so should I run down to B&N and buy a Python book? |
| 17:53.52 | MacNorth | no, use diveintopython.org |
| 17:53.56 | ajturner | DukeOfURL - or use one of the free python tutorials |
| 17:54.13 | guaqua | Hadaka: wondering the same |
| 17:54.20 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 17:54.29 | Vegar | docs.python.org is great |
| 17:54.31 | SpeedEvil | For P1+ - it's been reported that we get 1G base nand. |
| 17:54.31 | Hadaka | *if* phase 1+ is going to have 1GB of on-board flash |
| 17:54.38 | SpeedEvil | So ... |
| 17:54.48 | Hadaka | then I'd say the whole on-disk footprint is really irrelevant |
| 17:54.53 | SpeedEvil | IMO, 60M base code would be a good idea. |
| 17:55.10 | SpeedEvil | We do not want apps taking seconds to load. |
| 17:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[FAQ]] [[Higher_level_language_options]] [[Main_Page]] |
| 17:55.17 | MacNorth | battery-powered begs to be efficient |
| 17:55.24 | DukeOfURL | On shutdown, is the rootfs compressed and flashed? |
| 17:55.31 | SpeedEvil | Probably not. |
| 17:55.37 | SpeedEvil | It can suspend to RAM for around a year |
| 17:55.48 | SpeedEvil | if the device can do that efficiently. |
| 17:56.05 | DukeOfURL | When a new app is instaled/updated, is the rootfs flashed? |
| 17:56.22 | rob_w | SpeedEvil, not having gsm listening |
| 17:56.26 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 17:56.29 | SpeedEvil | that's suspend only |
| 17:56.37 | SpeedEvil | you get a week ish with just GSM on. |
| 17:56.53 | rob_w | DukeOfURL, it is written to flash |
| 17:57.06 | DukeOfURL | when the battery is removed, is RAM lost? |
| 17:57.09 | Hadaka | DukeOfURL: the root filesystem is directly on the flash, using jjfs2 as the filesystem |
| 17:57.14 | SpeedEvil | However, it takes a fraction of a percent of battery to dump memory to SD. |
| 17:57.14 | xkr47 | DukeOfURL, you don't need to reflash the whole rootfs just to add a file.. |
| 17:57.28 | SpeedEvil | So suspend to SD should be quite possible. |
| 17:57.30 | Hadaka | DukeOfURL: that is, every change is written to the flash immediately (well, write caches and all) |
| 17:57.50 | DukeOfURL | so rootfs isn't in RAM? |
| 17:57.55 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 17:57.57 | Hadaka | DukeOfURL: no |
| 17:58.00 | SpeedEvil | It's in NAND flash |
| 17:58.14 | DukeOfURL | what about high activity files such as logs? |
| 17:58.23 | SpeedEvil | It's not really a problem. |
| 17:58.27 | pH5 | DukeOfURL: /var is on a tmpfs |
| 17:58.34 | SpeedEvil | If the wear leveling works OK, you can even swap to it. |
| 17:58.35 | DukeOfURL | ok |
| 17:59.09 | DukeOfURL | what are the write timings for NAND? |
| 17:59.17 | rob_w | do we have only the normal micro sd spec size free in the nano ? |
| 17:59.20 | Hadaka | DukeOfURL: jjfs2 is a filesystem meant for flash disks - it will handle even often changing data well |
| 17:59.32 | SpeedEvil | rob_w: It's pretty packed. |
| 17:59.43 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-247-152.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 17:59.53 | rob_w | SpeedEvil, i saw a mico sd wifi at cebit and it looked quite fitting |
| 18:00.16 | rob_w | but the taiwanese marketing guy was not able to tell me the measurments |
| 18:00.25 | SpeedEvil | microSD are all the same size |
| 18:00.33 | SpeedEvil | there will be a bit sticking out the end though |
| 18:00.39 | SpeedEvil | that's a non-standard size though |
| 18:00.40 | xkr47 | DukeOfURL, extra memory added through the microSD slot however does not need to use jffs2 file system - the microSD chips already do the same as jffs2 automatically |
| 18:01.02 | rob_w | SpeedEvil, correct |
| 18:01.03 | Hadaka | mono makes a rather strong case for running in openmoko I think http://www.mdk.org.pl/articles/2007/01/28/clone-wars |
| 18:01.52 | DukeOfURL | so we have soldered-on NAND flash, soldered-on RAM, and socketed SD flash? |
| 18:01.55 | SpeedEvil | With NAND flash - which all modern storage flash is - you get 100K writes to each block on average guaranteed, before bad blocks develop to an extent to drop the free space below nominal |
| 18:01.57 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:01.59 | DukeOfURL | and socketed SIM |
| 18:02.07 | SpeedEvil | and USB |
| 18:02.16 | SpeedEvil | where 100K may vary a bit |
| 18:02.39 | guaqua | Hadaka: java #2? |
| 18:02.58 | SpeedEvil | the filesystem in the case of the internal NAND flash does the wear leveling to keep each block written to a sane number of times, on external cards (apart from smartmedia) they do this for you. |
| 18:03.01 | Hadaka | guaqua: well, I guess |
| 18:04.09 | Hadaka | guaqua: but java with nice gtk/dbus/etc. bindings |
| 18:04.16 | SpeedEvil | In theory. How well it works in practice for pathalogical load cases is an interesting question. |
| 18:04.29 | *** join/#openmoko Taras_Bulba (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
| 18:04.57 | Hadaka | guaqua: and used for actual desktop applications installed by default in distributions (http://beagle-project.org/), unlike java |
| 18:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@121.pool85-50-105.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 18:07.14 | Mandarino | re |
| 18:08.10 | DukeOfURL | Is NAND flash able to detect when a block goes bad? |
| 18:08.17 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:08.17 | Stephmw | Hadaka: that's kinda pointless war to fight... RH also ship that type of software based on Java by default |
| 18:08.32 | SpeedEvil | there are algorithms that you have to follow to avoid data loss. |
| 18:08.36 | SpeedEvil | they aren't that bad. |
| 18:08.54 | Stephmw | Hadaka: as does Sun on Solaris (not that I think it's a good idea mind you) |
| 18:09.11 | DukeOfURL | Is it possible to corrupt the file system (quark from the sun,etc)? How do you recover? |
| 18:09.17 | Hadaka | Stephmw: oh I agree, just saying why it's a bit different |
| 18:09.36 | MacNorth | gotta watch out for those high-engery particles! |
| 18:09.39 | SpeedEvil | worst case, you upload new image through u-boot |
| 18:09.51 | Stephmw | Hadaka: imo, the only use for Java _at the moment_ is to provide coverage for all those J2ME games already on the market |
| 18:09.54 | SpeedEvil | well - worst case, you need to re-flash it with the JTAG thingy |
| 18:10.02 | guaqua | what it really comes down to is developers |
| 18:10.09 | Stephmw | Hadaka: if we can get away with using Mono to simulate .net compact, all the better :) |
| 18:10.19 | guaqua | what language they want to use and which one has best bindings and documentation |
| 18:10.31 | Hadaka | guaqua: quite right |
| 18:11.25 | Hadaka | if python isn't *too* bad in anything on the phone, I think it'll prevail anyway |
| 18:12.21 | guaqua | yep |
| 18:12.56 | guaqua | maybe with parts written in c/c++ |
| 18:14.06 | DukeOfURL | I've never used it, but does glade have any relevance? Are there other high-level GTK tools? |
| 18:14.35 | SpeedEvil | In a way, it might have been a mistake to announce 1G on P1+ |
| 18:14.57 | vmaster | hehehe |
| 18:14.58 | SpeedEvil | One thing that we really, really don't want is multiple ways of doing things, all loaded into RAM at once. |
| 18:15.10 | LetoTo | 1G? |
| 18:15.11 | Hadaka | hmmh, how speedy is the processor on the P1 device compared to N770/N800 btw? |
| 18:15.13 | vmaster | 1gb nand |
| 18:15.30 | SpeedEvil | Hadaka: think pentium 100-133 |
| 18:16.05 | Hadaka | yeah, which ever higher level language is picked, it would be nice if it could either have a small ram footprint or share lots between other processes |
| 18:16.23 | Hadaka | python is kinda bad in that - ram footprint is not tiny, and each process loads the libraries invidually |
| 18:16.25 | SpeedEvil | 1GB gives the 'easy' option of just installing several. |
| 18:16.38 | guaqua | java is better :S |
| 18:16.41 | SpeedEvil | Which means higher memory load, slower load times, ... |
| 18:16.45 | balrog-kun | Hadaka: N800 has a slightly faster processor |
| 18:16.54 | Hadaka | balrog-kun: okay, thanks |
| 18:17.03 | Hadaka | P1+ might go faster than N800 then? |
| 18:18.23 | DukeOfURL | is floating point in hardware or librarues? |
| 18:18.31 | balrog-kun | i don't know, are they planning to change the processor for P1+ ? |
| 18:18.32 | DukeOfURL | libraries |
| 18:18.50 | balrog-kun | there was some talk about using a PXA in the future, btu i think that's only plans for now |
| 18:18.51 | Hadaka | balrog-kun: yes, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 |
| 18:18.58 | SpeedEvil | there is no FP |
| 18:19.01 | SpeedEvil | it's software |
| 18:19.05 | Hadaka | "The thing we can promise at this point is a faster CPU." |
| 18:19.14 | SpeedEvil | there is no graphics accellerator, it's 'dumb'' |
| 18:19.24 | SpeedEvil | that's proabbyl not with FP either. |
| 18:19.33 | Mandarino | estoy flipando xD |
| 18:19.56 | balrog-kun | :) |
| 18:25.53 | Hadaka | hmmh, the N770 is quite okay with program speed and all - not perfect, but quite usable - and python works nicely as well, so I guess python will be fine on P1 as well |
| 18:32.16 | _buz | PXA? sucks way too much power |
| 18:32.31 | _buz | s3c244X maybe |
| 18:33.59 | Moo^^^ | I was wondering could it be possible to use memory card as swap? |
| 18:34.08 | Moo^^^ | or has somebody implemented thing like this already |
| 18:34.21 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: hi |
| 18:34.22 | Moo^^^ | because I hate when pocket devices run out of memory when surfing |
| 18:34.35 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: nice to meet you here :-) |
| 18:35.40 | _buz | Moo^^^: theoretically, you can use swap(file) on sd |
| 18:35.51 | _buz | not sure if you want to though |
| 18:36.32 | Moo^^^ | _buz: too slow? can it be slower than hd? |
| 18:36.53 | _buz | much slower |
| 18:37.04 | Moo^^^ | actually, how fast it is? |
| 18:38.29 | _buz | not sure |
| 18:38.35 | _buz | good microsd cards might make 10mb/s |
| 18:38.40 | _buz | but i doubt the controller is that fast |
| 18:41.25 | Moo^^^ | _buz: I just asked on the maemo channel |
| 18:41.28 | Moo^^^ | maemo does it |
| 18:41.36 | Moo^^^ | it even has a contron panel setting for it |
| 18:41.39 | _buz | their cpu isnt remotely comparable |
| 18:42.09 | Moo^^^ | I thought it was more about IO speed |
| 18:42.39 | _buz | sure |
| 18:42.45 | _buz | but the cpu provides sd controller |
| 18:42.52 | balrog-kun | jserv2: hiya |
| 18:42.54 | _buz | (or soc if you want) |
| 18:43.26 | Moo^^^ | SoC is sd controller? I thought everyone was refering to Google Summer of Code :D |
| 18:43.49 | balrog-kun | i think everyone's referring to System-on-Chip |
| 18:44.00 | Moo^^^ | ack |
| 18:47.07 | jzs | Does anyone know if there's any other plans for imput than a on screen qwerty keyboard ? I was thinking of on screen numerical keyboard(like normal phones) |
| 18:47.15 | jzs | input* |
| 18:47.26 | guaqua | there's screen numerical in the dialer app |
| 18:47.56 | jzs | i was thinking on text input in other apps. |
| 18:48.27 | Moo^^^ | jzs: I was working on keyboard on MyDevice. Hint me if you need help. |
| 18:48.35 | balrog-kun | jzs: should be trivial to implement |
| 18:48.45 | guaqua | copypaste code |
| 18:49.01 | guaqua | or maybe it'll be some sort of module |
| 18:49.13 | Moo^^^ | copy-paste code = nightmare to maintain |
| 18:49.21 | jzs | sure. Maybe me that didn't think too far |
| 18:49.47 | Moo^^^ | there was so funny priorization issues. e.g. should dialog boxes pop-up above on-screen keyboard and so on |
| 18:50.00 | Moo^^^ | what happens to keyboard when call comes in? |
| 18:50.00 | Moo^^^ | etc. |
| 18:50.07 | Moo^^^ | in the end, it was not trivial after all |
| 18:50.39 | SpeedEvil | Only if you've got a 4" or bigger display, and even then it's not really important. |
| 18:51.04 | balrog-kun | Moo^^^: in case of a numerical keyboard it's just supplying a different keymap for the current on-screen keyboard |
| 18:51.07 | balrog-kun | no coding involved |
| 18:51.53 | Moo^^^ | balrog-kun: true |
| 18:51.58 | DukeOfURL | can Palm-like Graffiti be used with finger strokes? |
| 18:52.07 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 18:52.13 | balrog-kun | there's xstroke and rosetta |
| 18:52.17 | SpeedEvil | it's a bit tricky IMO. |
| 18:54.13 | Moo^^^ | DukeOfURL: Easier than Graffiti: http://depts.washington.edu/ewrite/ |
| 18:54.25 | SpeedEvil | IME ratehr. |
| 18:55.00 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_x (n=chatzill@c-75-68-22-196.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 18:55.05 | jserv2 | balrog-kun: are you planning to write system emulator for Neo1973 ? |
| 18:55.12 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
| 18:56.09 | balrog-kun | jserv2: maybe |
| 18:56.26 | jserv2 | cool |
| 19:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko dirakx (n=judith@adsl201-232-233-63.epm.net.co) |
| 19:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F088.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:09.31 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 19:23.10 | guaqua | how is the gps data read? |
| 19:23.25 | guaqua | it's a daemon, right? |
| 19:23.47 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 19:23.56 | SpeedEvil | look at [[hardware:gpsd]] |
| 19:23.58 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
| 19:24.13 | SpeedEvil | it's a standard gpsd |
| 19:24.15 | SpeedEvil | with a plugin |
| 19:24.34 | *** join/#openmoko User4092 (n=user4092@e177180082.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:27.41 | *** part/#openmoko cyrilRomain (n=cyrilRom@AToulouse-157-1-76-143.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 19:28.07 | SpeedEvil | I assume it's a two-part GPL and binary thing, to avoid GPL problems. |
| 19:30.27 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@206.pool85-50-116.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 19:38.15 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@pool-71-106-99-82.lsanca.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 19:40.49 | suma | my build failed at this point |
| 19:40.53 | suma | any suggestions ? |
| 19:40.54 | suma | Update svn://svn.o-hand.com/repos/dates/branches/;module=openmoko;proto=http |
| 19:42.34 | *** join/#openmoko eidgenosse (n=freespir@84-74-49-140.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 19:43.55 | *** join/#openmoko kumbalae (n=suma@cm115.omega176.maxonline.com.sg) |
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| 19:47.44 | *** join/#openmoko shwag (n=suran@cpe-76-80-88-199.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 19:47.46 | shwag | hi |
| 19:47.49 | eidgenosse | hi |
| 19:48.46 | shwag | is it all programmed in c? |
| 19:49.26 | kumbalae | shwag: yes |
| 19:50.07 | kumbalae | shwag: i'm building a single image for more than 3 days :) looks crazy |
| 19:50.26 | eidgenosse | have you got the hardware? |
| 19:50.35 | shwag | kumbalae: uhh....compile time 3 days? |
| 19:50.49 | shwag | eidgenosse: no. ive been following so I know when to get one. |
| 19:50.56 | LetoTo | you're compiling ON the phone? :) |
| 19:51.08 | eidgenosse | I've l |
| 19:51.21 | eidgenosse | I've listened to the ccc podcast and I'm very intrigued |
| 19:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko User4093 (n=user4092@e177180082.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 19:51.47 | eidgenosse | but the first version of the hardware looks ... well ... quite special ;) |
| 19:51.47 | kumbalae | LetoTo: i'm compiling on Pentium i686 and going crazy |
| 19:52.17 | LetoTo | ccc podcast? there was on on openmoko? |
| 19:52.43 | eidgenosse | yes. http://chaosradio.ccc.de/cre042.html |
| 19:52.46 | LetoTo | time to get some food, then get the nat-t patch ready for openmoko |
| 19:52.49 | LetoTo | ah thanks |
| 19:52.57 | eidgenosse | np |
| 19:53.40 | eidgenosse | RL is calling. cu laters. :) |
| 19:54.24 | theholyduck | ewww RL |
| 19:54.25 | theholyduck | :P |
| 19:55.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] |
| 19:58.00 | kumbalae | that is true, without wifi now a days a phone is not a phone |
| 19:58.36 | Moo^^^ | do you recall what kind of item phone used to be ;) |
| 19:58.42 | Moo^^^ | disc dialer and so on |
| 19:58.54 | kumbalae | ha ha |
| 19:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54953A21.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:59.21 | kumbalae | wired wifi is a nice term |
| 19:59.26 | pH5 | quick, somebody make a disc dialer for the touchscreen. |
| 20:06.20 | *** join/#openmoko davi (i=davi@41.Red-217-127-236.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 20:11.38 | *** part/#openmoko User4093 (n=user4092@e177180082.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 20:11.44 | _buz | watch out apple might think you clone the ipod ;) |
| 20:12.13 | balrog-kun | the ipod has a disc dialer? |
| 20:12.37 | _buz | no but inside the RDF, the two might look similar |
| 20:17.45 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACAD7613.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.99.50) |
| 20:21.52 | _buz | does the touchscreen *input* also have 285dpi? |
| 20:22.50 | *** join/#openmoko wanst1 (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 20:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko peyote (n=KVIrc@port-87-234-140-77.dynamic.qsc.de) |
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| 20:27.42 | kumbalae | anybody please help me with the problem in building the openmoko image ? |
| 20:27.43 | balrog-kun | _buz: someone reported that the touchscreen is very inaccurate |
| 20:30.17 | guaqua | kumbalae: what is the problem? |
| 20:30.43 | _buz | balrog-kun: that would suck |
| 20:30.47 | guaqua | zecke: have you managed to upload to svn yet? |
| 20:30.51 | _buz | inaccurate TS are a major PITA |
| 20:32.51 | zecke | guaqua: is the svn fixed yet? |
| 20:33.03 | guaqua | download works |
| 20:33.17 | guaqua | i don't have access to the dev side |
| 20:33.27 | zecke | guaqua: http://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=bindings |
| 20:33.44 | zecke | guaqua: I think no external people commit to the OpenMoko tree yet |
| 20:33.58 | zecke | guaqua: and thanks to svn:external attribute this is not even necessary |
| 20:35.16 | guaqua | i've been thinking about applying to do GSoC on the python bindings and how to develop software with python for openmoko |
| 20:36.02 | guaqua | documentation, tools to package python apps etc |
| 20:36.08 | kumbalae | guaqua: NOTE: Update svn://svn.o-hand.com/repos/dates/branches/;module=openmoko;proto=http |
| 20:36.09 | kumbalae | svn: REPORT request failed on '/repos/dates/!svn/vcc/default' |
| 20:36.09 | kumbalae | svn: REPORT of '/repos/dates/!svn/vcc/default': 200 OK (http://svn.o-hand.com) |
| 20:36.17 | kumbalae | this is the problem i get |
| 20:36.21 | guaqua | o-hand.com? |
| 20:36.23 | kumbalae | and the build gets stalled |
| 20:36.27 | *** join/#openmoko TeringTuby (n=maarten@70-100-dyn.ipact.nl) |
| 20:36.36 | guaqua | do you use the mokomakefile? |
| 20:36.41 | kumbalae | yes i do |
| 20:37.08 | guaqua | what is it trying to build there? |
| 20:37.19 | kumbalae | nothing hifi |
| 20:37.23 | *** part/#openmoko peyote (n=KVIrc@port-87-234-140-77.dynamic.qsc.de) |
| 20:37.27 | kumbalae | make openmoko-devel-image |
| 20:37.37 | kumbalae | just interested to setup the development environment |
| 20:37.38 | guaqua | yes, but at that point of the process? |
| 20:38.08 | kumbalae | i never did anything more other than what is mentioned in the intial setup |
| 20:39.27 | guaqua | well you do at least see what it says in the console? |
| 20:39.46 | kumbalae | http://pastebin.ca/400631 |
| 20:40.09 | kumbalae | you can see there what is there in the whole console |
| 20:40.19 | kumbalae | i don't know what information you are looking for |
| 20:40.32 | guaqua | first of all, don't build as root |
| 20:40.53 | guaqua | it isn't required, and it might mess up your system if some path isn't quite right |
| 20:40.57 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 20:40.57 | kumbalae | is that is the problem here ? |
| 20:41.49 | guaqua | no, it says 404 earlier and can't access downloads.openmoko.org |
| 20:42.02 | kumbalae | yes there is no file like that there |
| 20:42.12 | guaqua | that's why it's failing |
| 20:42.18 | guaqua | have you updated the mokomakefile? |
| 20:42.35 | kumbalae | any changes in the last 36 hours ? |
| 20:42.59 | kumbalae | i'm spending my 3 days in getting this simple stuff working |
| 20:42.59 | guaqua | could be |
| 20:43.08 | kumbalae | looks like i will be loosing interest |
| 20:43.19 | guaqua | try updating the mokomakefile first |
| 20:43.30 | guaqua | then do the make again |
| 20:44.31 | kumbalae | doing it now ... |
| 20:45.15 | *** part/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@206.pool85-50-116.dynamic.orange.es) |
| 20:45.38 | Hopscotch | while compiling openmoko and building perl: |
| 20:45.39 | Hopscotch | | SysV.xs:7:25: error: asm/page.h: No such file or directory |
| 20:45.42 | Hopscotch | any thoughts? |
| 20:46.27 | *** join/#openmoko handir (n=handir@pD9EB826F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:46.53 | guaqua | zecke: can't access the url you gave |
| 20:47.16 | kumbalae | Hopscotch: there is no good thoughts from my side regarding the toolchain installation for openmoko, looks like i will drop this project |
| 20:48.01 | guaqua | kumbalae: did you update the mokomakefile? |
| 20:48.30 | kumbalae | guaqua: i have done that and running it, will give a final try and waiting for the results |
| 20:48.30 | Hopscotch | kumbalae: i think the toolchains is awsome - you just need a bit patience until everything works |
| 20:48.51 | *** join/#openmoko shwag (n=suran@cpe-76-80-88-199.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 20:48.57 | Hopscotch | i bricked my p0 today - but i will fix some wiggler-jtag-thingy and bring it back to life |
| 20:49.04 | Hopscotch | don't give up too easily |
| 20:49.59 | kumbalae | Hopscotch: this is not the first time working in embedded, but i never faced problems like this to have the basic toolchain installaed already 36 hours gone in the air |
| 20:49.59 | Hopscotch | hehe, me too |
| 20:50.09 | Hopscotch | but i built a full devkit for an embedded device myself - i know how difficult it is |
| 20:50.22 | CM | Hopscotch: That perl thing is a gentoo issue |
| 20:50.27 | CM | I had it too |
| 20:50.39 | Hopscotch | CM: ah, righto - gentoo here |
| 20:50.41 | CM | You have to create some symlinks |
| 20:50.45 | kumbalae | guaqua: http://pastebin.ca/400647 |
| 20:50.47 | Hopscotch | CM: cool |
| 20:51.02 | CM | I'll give you the bug |
| 20:51.05 | CM | http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1988 |
| 20:51.54 | guaqua | kumbalae: please, use the mokomakefile's own update function |
| 20:52.15 | guaqua | but i have no idea why it doesn't find it |
| 20:52.24 | guaqua | it worked for me when i started build this morning |
| 20:52.41 | CM | My build worked for the first time this morning too |
| 20:52.55 | guaqua | i built earlier already |
| 20:53.20 | guaqua | but i built for neo platform and i don't have the phone so.. |
| 20:53.23 | CM | guaqua: Was some issues building on a 64-bit host before, but now all seems to be fixed |
| 20:53.25 | guaqua | now building for x86 |
| 20:55.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko]] [[Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review]] |
| 20:56.16 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-46-191.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 20:56.51 | Hopscotch | CM: thanks - works better now :) |
| 21:04.07 | *** part/#openmoko dirakx (n=judith@adsl201-232-233-63.epm.net.co) |
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| 21:16.19 | *** join/#openmoko _kaiser_ (n=kaiser@74-131-118-200.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:23.25 | CM | Hopscotch: Glad you got it working :) |
| 21:25.40 | Hopscotch | :) |
| 21:30.41 | CM | Nice SoC mail to the -devel list |
| 21:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko wiking (n=wiking@huwico/staff/wiking) |
| 21:35.40 | unmadindu | CM: which one ? |
| 21:35.40 | aloril | unmadindu: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:36.04 | CM | unmadindu: The one about gstreamer things |
| 21:36.24 | CM | From Sayamindu Dasgupta |
| 21:36.27 | unmadindu | CM: do you think I should send it to the community-list as well ?? |
| 21:37.34 | CM | unmadindu: Hmm.. Some people dislike cross-postings, but I'm not on the community list so I don't know how much SoC discussions are going on there. |
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| 21:38.18 | unmadindu | CM: yeah, that's what I thought - but now I notice that most of the other SoC related discussions are actually proceeding on the community list |
| 21:38.43 | unmadindu | maybe I should wait a bit, and if there's no response, I'll send it to community |
| 21:39.00 | SpeedEvil | Oh - Summer of Code. I was thinking System on a Chip |
| 21:39.05 | CM | I'm not sure. Good mail, so I think you could send it there |
| 21:39.16 | CM | SpeedEvil: Hehe.. You're always thinking hardware ;) |
| 21:39.47 | unmadindu | CM: okie, thanks :-) |
| 21:40.30 | CM | unmadindu: I'm just a long-time channel lurker and have no authority what so ever. ;) |
| 21:40.41 | unmadindu | CM: hehe :-) |
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| 22:27.55 | pjz | anyone got a countdown? |
| 22:28.16 | guaqua | counter |
| 22:28.16 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, a day 13:31:45 (15.564 +-7.0 days) (567) |
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| 22:32.56 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.42 the cheaper keyboard alternative :) |
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| 23:00.04 | SpeedEvil | http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.849 pointer |
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| 23:06.47 | carrumba | any detailed information about the security aspects of the openmoko? |
| 23:07.42 | balrog-kun | what security aspects are there? |
| 23:07.43 | carrumba | for example detecting of deactivated encryption or incoming service sms? |
| 23:08.24 | balrog-kun | the gsm daemon doesn't exist yet, hard to say what it detects and what it doesn't detect |
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| 23:15.34 | carrumba | i listened to the interview harald welte gave in the chaos radio. he mentioned it is capable to detect deactivated encryption, but not if the user gets informed about that. |
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| 23:28.54 | massis | ciao |
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| 23:56.13 | aloril | (script) wiki RecentChanges: [[Wish_List_-_Hardware]] |
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