| 00:00.00 | pavelm | coredump: You had to tweak mixer settings, and I could not get that right. |
| 00:00.34 | CoreDump|home | pavelm: some people here made actual phone calls so it's possible. |
| 00:00.49 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 00:01.02 | rwhitby | pavelm: I have made calls with P0 stock firmware. |
| 00:01.24 | rwhitby | perhaps it was your toolchain ;-) |
| 00:02.05 | pavelm | rwhitby: Or my sim card ;-) |
| 00:02.19 | rwhitby | ah, must have been your data plan |
| 00:02.27 | pavelm | rwhitby: You made _calls_? Like more than one? |
| 00:02.37 | *** join/#openmoko fthiery (n=ethernod@156-242-118-80.kaptech.net) |
| 00:02.37 | rwhitby | pavelm: yes, one from and one to. |
| 00:03.06 | fthiery | hi guys. The chan sure is crowded :) |
| 00:04.47 | rwhitby | lol: European vs Asian electrons. |
| 00:04.48 | MacNorth | strange... wget called from MokoMakefile seems blinded |
| 00:05.01 | MacNorth | Resolving www.openembedded.org... 1.0.0.0 |
| 00:05.10 | Lavar | hi, I'm having trouble making an openmoko-devel-image...there seems to be a file called features.h missing. Can anyone help? |
| 00:05.11 | MacNorth | Resolving www.openembedded.org... 85.214.40.226 (from prompt) |
| 00:05.17 | ozamosi | rwhitby: I grew sick of him... |
| 00:05.22 | rwhitby | MacNorth: weird |
| 00:05.36 | MacNorth | yeah, i'll say :) |
| 00:05.38 | MacNorth | meh |
| 00:06.16 | rwhitby | ozamosi: you forgot to say that you'd tell everyone else to get a Windows Mobile too ;-) |
| 00:06.55 | ozamosi | rwhitby: damn :( |
| 00:06.55 | MacNorth | i can't wait to make a call from zune! |
| 00:07.01 | fthiery | zune? |
| 00:07.01 | aloril | fthiery: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:07.15 | rwhitby | no botsnack |
| 00:07.38 | fthiery | ... zune.. the PMP? |
| 00:07.45 | MacNorth | yep |
| 00:07.48 | Lavar | here is my error log: http://www.pastebin.ca/393005 |
| 00:07.54 | MacNorth | it'll be totally sweet |
| 00:08.08 | rwhitby | timotimo: try rm -f /home/moko/sources/svn/openmoko-libs and rebuild |
| 00:08.21 | fthiery | ... How'd you plan to do this? |
| 00:08.35 | timotimo | ok, thanks. will see what happens. |
| 00:09.05 | rwhitby | Lavar: not sure if anyone has build OM on darwin yet. I would not expect it to work out of the box. |
| 00:10.20 | Lavar | rwhitby: Cool then I'd like to be the first, but I seem to be missing the header file features.h |
| 00:10.40 | MacNorth | i'll just fuse a Windows Mobile to the zune, and i'll have a direct line to the whole zune community! i'll be able to talk to a friend with one for three days or three calls for free! |
| 00:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko kerwood|afk (n=Marshall@c-69-255-98-58.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 00:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (i=Mac@p57A2873F.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:11.30 | fthiery | I'm currently looking into speech recognition software; seems like sphinx is the only "real" open source alternative |
| 00:11.48 | SpeedEvil | It's a shame that microsoft ate speech recognition. |
| 00:12.10 | fthiery | Ate? You mean bought a cool company? |
| 00:12.26 | SpeedEvil | Several of the ones working on speech. |
| 00:12.28 | rwhitby | Lavar: which package is building at that point? If it a general OpenEmbedded package, and not OpenMoko specific, you might get better answers in #oe (where there are likely to be more people who have run OE on darwin) |
| 00:12.31 | fthiery | (which' result is: no product available...) |
| 00:12.59 | fthiery | you mean Entropic? |
| 00:13.22 | fthiery | 5.2.7. Entropic |
| 00:13.23 | fthiery | The fine people over at Entropic have been bought out by Micro$oft... Their products and support services have all but disappeared. Their support for HTK and ESPS/waves+ is gone, and their future is in the hands of M$. Their old website as http://www.entropic.com has more information. |
| 00:13.23 | fthiery | K.K. Chin advised me that the original developers of the HTK (the Speech Vision and Robotic Group at Cambridge) are still providing support for it. There is also a "free" version available at: http://htk.eng.cam.ac.uk. Also note that Microsoft still owns the copyright to the current HTK code... |
| 00:13.25 | fthiery | oops sorry |
| 00:13.54 | fthiery | Yup, that's a shame... |
| 00:14.18 | fthiery | There's IBM viavoice, but i can't seem to find it anymore |
| 00:14.23 | fthiery | anywhere |
| 00:14.39 | fthiery | xvoice *is supposed to* rock |
| 00:15.09 | Lavar | rwhitby: this OM specific. I'm doing 'make openmoko-devel-image' and it's looking for features.h, so I figure maybe it's a file that was not checked in. Does features.h sound familiar? |
| 00:15.16 | SpeedEvil | They bought (micro0soft) earlier Kurzweil |
| 00:15.17 | fthiery | There's http://perlbox.org/ , using festival & sphynx |
| 00:15.45 | fthiery | But.. Didn't they buy checkpoint? Or a part of it? |
| 00:16.02 | fthiery | When you see the result.. |
| 00:16.06 | MacNorth | hmm, now wget isn't working from the shell :( |
| 00:17.37 | rwhitby | Lavar: openmoko-devel-image depends on a lot of packages - which individual package is being built at the time of the error (hint: pastebin lots more stuff before what you have shown us already) |
| 00:18.16 | pavelm | IIRC HTK was toolkit... nothing ready-made as sphinx is. |
| 00:19.31 | pavelm | ...new scratchbox got me working executables on openmoko, good1 |
| 00:20.50 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04__ (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-241-104.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:21.25 | pavelm | ...too bad I took -uclibc version; I can't compile tui because it uses ucs-8 |
| 00:24.52 | TRIsoft | mickeyl: still awake ? |
| 00:25.19 | Lavar | rwhitby: http://www.pastebin.ca/394030 and the individual package is package ipkg-native-0.99.163-r1: task do_compile |
| 00:26.53 | rwhitby | Lavar: ipkg-native is a standard OpenEmbedded package, not modified by OpenMoko. So you will be likely to get better answers in #oe. It also looks like your Git installation is not working (see the very first two error messages) |
| 00:27.25 | Lavar | rwhitby: ok thanks! |
| 00:30.07 | timotimo | rwhitby: tried rm -r of sources/.../openmoko-libs and also updated makefile, etc, and build clean package as per wiki. Still get same build error. |
| 00:31.54 | rwhitby | timotimo: dunno then. Does svn work on any other packages (maybe a firewall issue or something?) |
| 00:32.51 | pavelm | I got tui to work on openmoko ... after disabling sms handling (so unicode is not needed). |
| 00:33.42 | timotimo | rwhitby: yeah, it's built plenty of other packages before getting to this openmoko-libs. Can you point me to where it gets the 1331 revision? |
| 00:34.08 | timotimo | also, is this perhaps because i'm builing for xoo? are other people doing that? |
| 00:35.52 | pavelm | ...hehe, and then I got a kernel crash when tui tried accessing ttySAC0 :-( |
| 00:37.14 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@rrcs-71-42-148-130.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:37.46 | *** part/#openmoko rejon_sxsw (n=rejon@rrcs-71-42-148-130.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 00:46.09 | pavelm | Hmm, is it possible that modem state survives openmoko powerdown/powerup? |
| 00:46.19 | pavelm | ...I've now removed the battery, I hope that resets it. |
| 00:48.45 | SpeedEvil | Have you every gotten a response from the modem? |
| 00:48.56 | SpeedEvil | AIUI, some modems are reported broken. |
| 00:49.31 | pavelm | speed: Yes, it now seems to work. (My problem was not turning down kernel loglevel before talking to modem). |
| 00:49.38 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 00:50.13 | guaqua | what is AIUI? |
| 00:50.22 | guaqua | that you seem to drop every now and then |
| 00:50.32 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it. |
| 00:50.43 | guaqua | grr |
| 00:52.26 | Psi_ | so.. when phase1 starts, do you guys think the phone will be ready for GUI app developers to buy and start developing?, or are all the low level hardware guys still trying to get the thing to boot correctly? |
| 00:52.38 | SpeedEvil | It boots. |
| 00:52.49 | SpeedEvil | It should run easier when the next hardware revision comes out. |
| 00:52.54 | SpeedEvil | (power use, ...) |
| 00:53.11 | Psi_ | are most of the problems you guys are having to do with that? |
| 00:53.20 | SpeedEvil | It is usable for development. |
| 00:53.27 | Psi_ | cool |
| 00:53.35 | CoreDump|home | pretty much so yeah |
| 00:53.50 | guaqua | the gui development should be happening at the same time |
| 00:53.56 | pavelm | psi: As a low level developer I can promise you biggest problem just now is gui ;-). |
| 00:54.04 | guaqua | there should be a lighter version of mokomakefile just for gui development |
| 00:54.57 | guaqua | since building the whole shebang is like taking a train to go to the bathroom |
| 00:55.22 | Psi_ | heh |
| 00:55.24 | pavelm | gua: Nicely said :-) |
| 00:56.41 | Psi_ | has anyone made videos of the phone doing stuff yet? |
| 00:56.46 | guaqua | well if it takes 7 hours to compile a gui toolkit, it's no understatement :) |
| 00:56.55 | guaqua | or set up, would be better |
| 00:56.57 | Psi_ | ive seen a few pics, but no videos |
| 00:58.23 | DukeOfURL | pavelm: What are the GUI problems? |
| 00:58.26 | CoreDump|home | you gotta say one thing tho: Having to press the PWR button is pure toture |
| 00:58.31 | DukeOfURL | gtk+? |
| 00:58.58 | pavelm | Duke: ...like dialer not written yet? |
| 00:59.15 | DukeOfURL | Is there a separate library for finger v. pen input? |
| 00:59.18 | pavelm | Duke: gtk is fine I believe, but we seem to miss dialer application etc. |
| 00:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@atheist.ebb.org) |
| 00:59.44 | DukeOfURL | Where's the best tutorial for gtk? |
| 00:59.46 | pavelm | Duke: I do not think so. |
| 01:00.06 | Psi_ | so this app doesnt exist yet? http://www.openmoko.com/pixels/dialer.png |
| 01:00.11 | SpeedEvil | no |
| 01:00.18 | SpeedEvil | all the pics are just mockups |
| 01:00.19 | SpeedEvil | well |
| 01:00.26 | Psi_ | i see |
| 01:00.34 | SpeedEvil | some of the apps may exist, but they don't actually work propelyl. |
| 01:00.42 | Psi_ | heh |
| 01:00.59 | SpeedEvil | Proper release is still Sep. |
| 01:01.31 | Psi_ | so what are you guys all working on with your phase0 phones? |
| 01:01.38 | pavelm | ...what is the right speed to talk with the gsm modem part? |
| 01:01.40 | pavelm | psi: yes. |
| 01:01.52 | pavelm | psi: I mean... I am. |
| 01:02.01 | Psi_ | you working on the gui or lower level stuff? |
| 01:02.02 | CoreDump|home | http://stuff.pimp-your-penguin.org/screenshots/Neo1973/20070310/dialer-01.jpg <- this is the real dialer ;) |
| 01:03.41 | Psi_ | i see |
| 01:03.57 | pavelm | core: That actually looks pretty well. Can I have the binary? ;-). |
| 01:04.24 | fthiery | Did anybody take a look @ pocketsphinx? |
| 01:04.36 | fthiery | http://www.speech.cs.cmu.edu/pocketsphinx/ |
| 01:04.41 | pavelm | Actually.. this is the _real_ dialer :-) |
| 01:04.43 | pavelm | Standby |
| 01:04.43 | pavelm | 1.1 00:09:15 -99 dBm 0 |
| 01:04.43 | pavelm | not searching? |
| 01:04.43 | pavelm | Network: <unknown> |
| 01:04.43 | pavelm | usb0: : r 104 t 0 |
| 01:04.44 | pavelm | Update: 14955 |
| 01:04.52 | pavelm | ...so tui somehow works there. |
| 01:05.37 | CoreDump|home | pavelm: while it is not a mockup, it is still unuseable |
| 01:07.03 | guaqua | CoreDump|home: that does look good |
| 01:07.26 | CoreDump|home | yeah, but the theme is a "bit" too much for the phone |
| 01:08.04 | guaqua | do you know, btw is there some sort of framework for saving the sms&e-mail messages in the phone? |
| 01:08.10 | guaqua | or some standard way |
| 01:08.39 | guaqua | common libs for that kind of stuff would be handy |
| 01:08.57 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 01:09.16 | guaqua | also enables different kind of approaches easier |
| 01:09.18 | pavelm | qua: there's gnokii... and I'm using code from scmxx |
| 01:11.23 | guaqua | what's the actual use? |
| 01:11.44 | guaqua | i can only see the vcards useful in scmxx |
| 01:12.10 | guaqua | also gnokii sounds more like a hack to get proprietary stuff working |
| 01:13.17 | pavelm | gua: scmxx is useful for decoding pdu. |
| 01:13.23 | pavelm | ...as is gnokii |
| 01:13.46 | guaqua | pdu? |
| 01:14.06 | pavelm | sms messages. |
| 01:14.09 | guaqua | ahh |
| 01:14.45 | guaqua | i'll look into it |
| 01:14.53 | guaqua | but now, nighty night |
| 01:16.29 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 01:18.34 | *** join/#openmoko elliotf (n=elliotf@h-74-1-186-114.snfccasy.covad.net) |
| 01:24.25 | *** join/#openmoko lmveloso (n=lmveloso@201-40-93-254.mganm702.dsl.brasiltelecom.net.br) |
| 01:25.07 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@rrcs-71-42-148-130.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:29.02 | pavelm | I made first call with tui + openmoko, good. |
| 01:29.11 | pavelm | but that sidetone is _really_ annoying. |
| 01:29.49 | pavelm | Standby |
| 01:29.50 | pavelm | 1.1 00:13:08 -31 dBm 0 |
| 01:29.50 | pavelm | Network: "T-Mobile |
| 01:29.50 | pavelm | usb0: : r 4 t 0 |
| 01:29.50 | pavelm | Update: 243896 |
| 01:29.51 | pavelm | 3 messages |
| 01:29.51 | pavelm | 0791246080006518240C91 |
| 01:31.12 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@rrcs-71-42-148-130.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 01:31.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1349 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-appmanager/data/ (3 files): |
| 01:31.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Add the desktop files to the application manager. |
| 01:31.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: It should be changed when support multi language. |
| 01:31.58 | pavelm | ...aha, but right mixer setting makes it almost ok. |
| 01:32.07 | parag0n | so what do you reckon, will P1 have working dialer / sms support? |
| 01:32.44 | CoreDump|home | maybe a dialer but I have some doubts over sms ;) |
| 01:33.04 | pavelm | coredump: I got sms-es to work in tui :-). |
| 01:33.20 | CoreDump|home | =) |
| 01:33.48 | rwhitby | timotimo: the svn checkout just worked fine for me |
| 01:33.49 | pavelm | coredump: well... sms reading anyway... |
| 01:34.14 | rwhitby | pavelm: so when do you put tui in OE ? |
| 01:36.47 | *** part/#openmoko kerwood|afk (n=Marshall@c-69-255-98-58.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:37.14 | pavelm | rwhitby: No, question is when do you pull it :-). |
| 01:39.24 | rwhitby | pavelm: it was worth a try ;-) |
| 01:40.08 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1350 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-appmanager/src/appmanager-window.c: |
| 01:40.08 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Because the windows-manager will sure that the application will only |
| 01:40.08 | CIA-7 | openmoko: run once, remove the unuseful code in the application manager. |
| 01:41.19 | pavelm | And with "simulate keyboard on touchscreen" hack, I can even place calls directly from openmoko... |
| 01:41.36 | pavelm | ...but entering the numbers using up/down arrows, only, is a bit tiring. |
| 01:42.13 | pavelm | anyway, I guess I should get some sleep now. |
| 01:48.11 | CoreDump|home | rwhitby: excellent reply on the ML btw |
| 01:48.56 | *** join/#openmoko dou213 (n=x@e181177147.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 01:56.04 | [g2] | any clue on what it would take to run mono on openmoko ? I'm wondering if Tomboy will run |
| 01:57.23 | cjb | [g2]: I think they've had an ARM port for a long time. It'll be many tens of megabytes for mono+gti-sharp+etc, though |
| 01:57.30 | cjb | ahd the NAND is small |
| 01:59.34 | [g2] | cjb, I've got a 1GB microSD card |
| 02:00.24 | [g2] | he** Ubuntu Feisty with plenty of room left over would work if there was enough RAM |
| 02:02.02 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1351 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-appmanager/data/ (Makefile.am openmoko-appmanager.desktop): Now the application-manager.png will install to /usr/share/pixmaps |
| 02:02.27 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03ken_zhao * r1352 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/data/Makefile.am: change openmoko-dialer.desktop install directory |
| 02:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z66e0.z.pppool.de) |
| 02:07.58 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03ken_zhao * r1353 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/data/ (Makefile.am openmoko-dialer.desktop): change Icon in openmoko-dialer.desktop and install directory |
| 02:12.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1354 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/data/ (Makefile.am openmoko-mainmenu.desktop): Fix the problem that the application icon install to wrong directory |
| 02:14.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1355 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-taskmanager/data/ (Makefile.am openmoko-taskmanager.desktop): Fix the problem that the application icon install to wrong directory |
| 02:21.11 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@mnc07.mei.co.jp) |
| 02:24.40 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03ken_zhao * r1356 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/data/openmoko-mainmenu.png: change icon for main menu |
| 02:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 02:53.32 | noidd | I need more CPU cycles for cross-compiling :-P |
| 02:54.45 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1357 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/ (dbus-conn.h mokoiconview.c): change item activate function. |
| 02:58.08 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 03:00.52 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 03:09.04 | jebba | rwhitby, for the last day or so i've been getting "configure: error: can't find confuse library". |
| 03:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko ljm_tw (n=ljm_tw@220-133-42-47.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:12.17 | ljm_tw | Hi |
| 03:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko ljm_tw (n=ljm_tw@220-133-42-47.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:16.01 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-202-86.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 03:16.15 | ljm_tw | Hi everyone |
| 03:16.40 | ljm_tw | I'm interested in OpenMoko. Is it possible to catch the second release of develop device? |
| 03:16.41 | aloril | ljm_tw: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 03:17.11 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@dsl092-076-224.bos1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:17.51 | *** join/#openmoko pingu (i=pingu@gentoo/developer/pingu) |
| 03:23.42 | ljm_tw | aloril: reading. Tkx. |
| 03:23.42 | *** join/#openmoko b_lindeijer (n=bjorn@lindeijer.xs4all.nl) |
| 03:24.17 | *** join/#openmoko tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 03:24.22 | ljm_tw | aloril: Then I'll try to work first with emulator. $350 is much for me XD |
| 03:26.26 | ljm_tw | quit |
| 03:26.37 | *** join/#openmoko ljm_tw (n=ljm_tw@220-133-42-47.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 03:29.21 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 03:31.39 | rwhitby | jebba: pastebin please |
| 03:39.18 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 03:40.24 | rwhitby | but I've wired a serial controlled relay up to the reset switch on the debug board :-) |
| 03:46.24 | jebba | rwhitby, http://pastebin.ca/394237 |
| 03:54.30 | rwhitby | jebba: patch coming |
| 03:56.10 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r54 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (ftdi-eeprom-native.patch series): Patched ftdi-eeprom-native to add missing confuse-native dependency. |
| 03:56.37 | rwhitby | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=266 |
| 04:00.25 | aevin | jebba: are you building for fic-gta01 ? |
| 04:04.56 | jebba | aevin, yes, for that and qemuarm. both showed the error (iirc) |
| 04:05.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1358 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): revert the show_all & hide splashing ugly method for now. I have to for the phone call debugging. |
| 04:06.04 | jebba | unfortunately download.savannah.gnu.org is hanging for me @ the moment... |
| 04:15.53 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2) |
| 04:25.10 | aloril | it sounds like you can get dataplans in USA from cingular/t-mobile without contract and without phone |
| 04:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 04:26.58 | aloril | ah, it might have been about UK "It is possible to take your sim free phone & join a network without being locked into a 1 - 2 year contract.": http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/4956_Unlocking_the_Phone.php |
| 04:27.32 | Tv | aloril: umm, there's a rumor you can use t-mobile prepaid for unlimited data, but I understand that hole has been blocked |
| 04:27.59 | Tv | aloril: and the only thing you can get without a contract is prepaid |
| 04:28.44 | Tv | aloril: this is US |
| 04:29.41 | Tv | I should work on a talk about newfangled mobiles |
| 04:32.39 | aloril | Tv: ah, so you *need* 2 year contract in USA with cingular/t-mobile |
| 04:33.07 | aloril | ? |
| 04:33.17 | Tv | aloril: apparently so; the prepaid thingie can do web surfing limited to sites they like and aim/icq/msn chat, that afaik everything else is blocked |
| 04:33.29 | Tv | aloril: haven't had time to test |
| 04:33.58 | aloril | ouch, so only way to cancel contract is to move to cheapest plan ;-) |
| 04:34.06 | aloril | 'cancel' |
| 04:34.36 | Tv | that's why it's a 2-year contract.. |
| 04:35.39 | Tv | what's <1 EUR? |
| 04:35.43 | Tv | I know saunalahti is 10 EUR/mo |
| 04:36.01 | aloril | I mean if you don't actually use phone |
| 04:36.10 | Tv | ah, that doesn't really count ;) |
| 04:36.13 | aloril | or only answer calls ;-) |
| 04:36.15 | Tv | the 10 EUR is fixed |
| 04:36.30 | Tv | flat rate gprs woo! |
| 04:36.44 | aloril | yeah, but can you get "answer only voice calls" in USA cheaply? hmm.. I guess prepaid is that... |
| 04:36.49 | aevin | jebba: I am having the same problem too: Connecting to download.savannah.gnu.org|199.232.41.75|:80... failed: Connection timed out. |
| 04:36.55 | Tv | aloril: you pay for incoming here |
| 04:37.30 | aevin | i'll do it later. |
| 04:37.48 | aloril | oh..so for emergency phone cheapest is prepaid and not use it at all, just keep it on ;-) |
| 04:37.53 | Tv | yeah |
| 04:38.00 | Tv | aloril: and even then, the minutes will expire |
| 04:38.20 | Tv | aloril: so you pay something like $10/3 mo minimum |
| 04:38.36 | aloril | still I think in Finland you can have plan with less than 1 EUR in month that is free incoming calls and does allow any data (maybe 5 EUR/meg or so), etc.. |
| 04:38.36 | Tv | I think my saunalahti gsm base rate is 0.66 EUR/mo ;) |
| 04:38.55 | Tv | and I can get some GPRS on top of that starting at I think 1 EUR/mo |
| 04:38.59 | Tv | and flat rate gprs for 10 EUR/mo |
| 04:39.10 | Tv | so 10.66 EUR/mo = flat rate gprs plus infinite incoming calls |
| 04:39.11 | aloril | of course if you actually GRPS, then it makes sense to get flat rate ;-) |
| 04:39.51 | aloril | but anyway, requiring 2 year contract, that is quite <censored> |
| 04:40.13 | MacNorth | rwhitby: a few files appear to have gone missing -- http://rafb.net/p/jxnJIw45.html |
| 04:40.21 | aloril | with phones I understand but, not having alternative without 2 year contract and without phone .. |
| 04:40.36 | MacNorth | openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates_svn.bb does not exist |
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| 06:08.27 | jipi | counter |
| 06:08.27 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 4 days 05:51:32 (18.244 +-7.0 days) (535) |
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| 06:22.10 | aloril | sometimes providing faq link doesn't work: person just proceeds to ask questions from it .. |
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| 06:32.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03ken_zhao * r1359 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/main.c: remove warnings for openmoko-mainmenu:main.c |
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| 06:54.53 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03ken_zhao * r1360 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/callbacks.c: remove compile warnings for openmoko-mainmenu:callbacks.c |
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| 07:04.00 | rwhitby | MacNorth: you need to "make update" before "make setup", so you get the latest patches. |
| 07:04.15 | rob_w | ok , i got out of the infiite rebooting loop by loading the device one day and now i reached uboot , changed to fast charge and its booting up gracefully |
| 07:04.54 | rwhitby | yeah, I got out of my reboot loop by wiring the reset switch on the debug board to serial controlled relay, and leaving it in reset for a couple of hours. |
| 07:05.51 | rob_w | the battery tells me now 73 % |
| 07:06.01 | rob_w | but i guess it should have reach 100 already |
| 07:12.48 | CM | Am I the only one who never gets past perl-native-5.8.7-r3 with the Moko makefile? |
| 07:13.28 | rwhitby | CM: got a full pastebin? |
| 07:15.45 | CM | rwhitby: http://pastebin.ca/394340 |
| 07:16.14 | CM | It's always IPC::SysV failing on not finding asm/page.h |
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| 07:17.14 | rwhitby | Hmm - x86_64. I'd build on a 32 bit OS if you want least problems. |
| 07:18.08 | rwhitby | anyway, you should report it in #oe (and just say you're building perl-native, don't say you're running MokoMakefile, cause it's a standard OE package failure to build on your host). |
| 07:18.24 | guaqua | CM: i get past it, just never get anything compiled due to missing GTK+ 2.6 requirement that autogen.sh brings up |
| 07:18.36 | CM | Yes, I looked in the oe bugzilla but didn't find anything about it |
| 07:19.14 | CM | I don't have any 32bit os, but I guess I could run one in vmware :) |
| 07:26.17 | Hopscotch | good morning |
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| 07:29.47 | rwhitby | CM: I do all my OE builds in Debian Etch in vmware. |
| 07:29.55 | CM | I know ;) |
| 07:30.19 | guaqua | i'm thinking about switching to eg |
| 07:30.21 | guaqua | etch |
| 07:31.01 | CM | I have a xubuntu machine, but it's 300mhz P2 with 128mb ram.. |
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| 07:33.37 | kmeyer | I have a fc6 machine, but it's a 133MHz P1 with 128MiB ram... :P |
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| 07:42.45 | aloril | kmeyer: should give reasonable speed simulation ;-) |
| 07:43.03 | kmeyer | :) |
| 07:43.10 | kmeyer | it's my router :) |
| 07:44.21 | CM | Mine is a home-made "tablet" from some old dell laptop parts |
| 07:44.41 | CM | Not exactly portable though since the battery is broken |
| 07:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko kart_ (i=kartik@202.141.96.29) |
| 07:47.31 | kmeyer | :) |
| 07:47.44 | kmeyer | why am I smiling so much? |
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| 08:11.26 | buz | http://www.nanoradio.com/?NavID=267 HTF do they arrive at such power consumption? |
| 08:13.22 | buz | also, where can i get it on a pcmcia card ;) |
| 08:16.43 | kmeyer | buz: is that low or high? ;P |
| 08:24.53 | SpeedEvil | lows' |
| 08:29.21 | SpeedEvil | If you want to know more about us, our products and services, we need to sign a joint Non-Disclosure-Agreement. |
| 08:29.30 | SpeedEvil | Oh what fun, I love signing those... |
| 08:32.23 | SpeedEvil | How is the code density compared to x86? |
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| 08:40.26 | buz | if they dont even give out specs without NDA i doubt they will allow GPL drivers |
| 08:40.47 | buz | i wouldn't be surprised if there was patent violations, either |
| 08:41.37 | buz | but such low power requirements would be killer in a phone |
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| 08:46.11 | SpeedEvil | For MP3, it's not horribly hard to do. You simply turn the radio off in between bursts of a meg or so. |
| 08:46.26 | SpeedEvil | That gets you really low power. |
| 08:46.46 | SpeedEvil | Voice is harder, as it needs actual support. |
| 08:47.10 | SpeedEvil | Because you've got to be active >10 times a second. |
| 08:47.13 | buz | they list 15s transfer times |
| 08:47.25 | buz | i assume that means streaming in one bit |
| 08:47.29 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 08:47.38 | aloril | was in that site power usage when transmitting? |
| 08:47.40 | buz | if that can be done in that power envelope it's REALLY impressing |
| 08:47.57 | buz | i found a press release 130ma while transmitting, doesnt say what voltage :( |
| 08:48.10 | buz | (what idiot lists ampers without voltage anyway) |
| 08:48.53 | buz | does standby in wifi world mean waiting for a package to come? |
| 08:49.35 | SpeedEvil | bAssume 3.3 |
| 08:49.43 | SpeedEvil | 5 is rare these days. |
| 08:49.54 | SpeedEvil | And lower voltage tends to be noted. |
| 08:52.58 | buz | only a complete idiot would use 5v in a mobile chipset |
| 08:53.03 | buz | but maybe its lower than 3.3v |
| 08:53.54 | SpeedEvil | If it is, they'd not it. |
| 08:53.57 | SpeedEvil | ote |
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| 09:21.41 | rwhitby | might as well find out what falls over now, so it can be fixed for the masses doing ipkg upgrades later ... |
| 09:22.30 | rwhitby | Package uucp wants to install file /usr/bin/cu |
| 09:22.30 | rwhitby | <PROTECTED> |
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| 09:22.44 | rwhitby | looks like some update-alternatives work is required there ... |
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| 09:24.21 | TRIsoft | morning |
| 09:24.34 | rwhitby | morning TRIsoft |
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| 09:27.46 | rwhitby | root@neo:~$ ipkg upgrade |
| 09:27.47 | rwhitby | Segmentation fault |
| 09:27.58 | rwhitby | I guess I probably filled the jffs2 by doing a big ipkg upgrade. |
| 09:28.24 | CM | Heh |
| 09:31.27 | florian | good morning |
| 09:31.43 | TRIsoft | morning florian |
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| 09:34.32 | aloril | rwhitby: if you hit ram > 64MiB, it will crash: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245 |
| 09:35.12 | aloril | so you probably want to update u-boot for anything serious |
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| 09:44.07 | aloril | SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo1973_Hardware&diff=5981&oldid=5929 |
| 09:44.10 | aloril | 2007-03-07 22:52:27 <koen> LaF0rge: do you have an ETA when we can start asking GPS related questions (e.g. next week, next month, etc) 2007-03-07 22:52:42 <LaF0rge> koen: I would say one month is a good idea |
| 09:44.20 | aloril | does above edit refer to later comment? |
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| 09:45.57 | aloril | + this: 2007-03-07 22:53:00 <LaF0rge> keon: We still have too many questions on our own now. Sean himself is looking into this |
| 09:51.05 | *** part/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 09:52.58 | rwhitby | aloril: yeah, I was intending to upgrade everything tonight anyway, u-boot, kernel, rootfs. |
| 09:53.36 | rwhitby | the flash didn't fill, so it was probably the 64MB ram bug. trying ipkg upgrade again :-) |
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| 10:12.02 | balrog-kun | is you pass mem=64m this should neutralise the bug without upgrading |
| 10:20.27 | XorA | morning |
| 10:21.29 | TRIsoft | morning XorA |
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| 10:34.05 | Jkx | Hy all, I'm trying to build the latest tool-chains, but I get this:"monotone: misuse: database schemas do not match: wanted e372b508bea9b991816d1c74680f7ae10d2a6d94, got 9988f135a16fe7fd593f2f49fd8147bba919e32f. try migrating database |
| 10:34.35 | Jkx | somebody with a idea ? (I used MokoMakefile) |
| 10:35.12 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-132-018.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:35.14 | CM | Jkx: What version of monotone do you have? |
| 10:35.27 | Jkx | monotone 0.18 (base revision: e8c9e4eb0534a4c6e538935576330de34ec42052) |
| 10:35.51 | CM | Heh, 0.32 is what you need |
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| 10:37.12 | Jkx | CM Ok thanks .. |
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| 10:41.09 | rwhitby | 0.18 - wow! |
| 10:41.37 | rwhitby | Jkx: anything from 0.28 to 0.33 will do, 0.32 will make you wait the least time. |
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| 11:12.15 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1361 10/trunk/oe/packages/libftdi/ (ftdi-eeprom-native_0.2.bb ftdi-eeprom_0.2.bb): oe/libftdi: add missing dependencies to confuse{-native}. thanks rwhitby for spotting. closes #266 |
| 11:12.25 | mickeyl | hmm |
| 11:12.34 | mickeyl | s/laforge/mickeyl/ |
| 11:12.35 | hrw | does someone brick totally his Neo? |
| 11:13.04 | TRIsoft | hrw: Yes, i think hrw did it :D |
| 11:13.04 | XorA | hrw: even jtag doesnt work? |
| 11:13.11 | *** join/#openmoko Cindy (n=cindy@c-24-34-99-237.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 11:13.31 | hrw | XorA: jtag need machine which can be powered. |
| 11:13.42 | hrw | I will have charger for battery in next week probably |
| 11:14.28 | hrw | mickeyl: in all next versions add small led which will say "I am working" |
| 11:15.14 | mickeyl | XorA: what was this magic steps of operation again to make it at least powered up for jtag? something like disconnect everything, replace battery, press power button for 2 seconds, connect FPC and try w/ jtag again? |
| 11:15.20 | mickeyl | hrw: i'm pushing!!! |
| 11:15.33 | mickeyl | but it's obviously tough |
| 11:15.44 | vmaster | holding the reset button down is supposed to slowly charge it |
| 11:15.53 | hrw | mickeyl: I know that you are pushing. I just remind |
| 11:15.56 | XorA | mickeyl: I have no idea, I just kept the neo on usb and kept trying to turn it on until it finally did |
| 11:15.58 | hrw | vmaster: for longer then 8h? |
| 11:16.15 | vmaster | hrw: don't think so |
| 11:16.17 | XorA | mickeyl: my bv2 doesnt suffer the bug and the Phase 0 I havent had time to play with properly |
| 11:16.35 | mickeyl | ah |
| 11:16.38 | hrw | the problem is probably connected with fact that it felt to floor from ~80cm |
| 11:16.50 | mickeyl | darn |
| 11:17.04 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 11:18.50 | vmaster | is it possible to power the neo just from usb, without having the battery inserted? |
| 11:19.30 | mickeyl | unfortunately not with the current hardware design. AIUI it's a limitation of the PM IC |
| 11:20.19 | hrw | here it does not start with BP-5L battery from nokia770 |
| 11:20.34 | hrw | atleast not lcd |
| 11:21.08 | vmaster | did you try to connect via JTAG with the nokia's battery? |
| 11:21.27 | hrw | not yet |
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| 11:21.40 | hrw | mickeyl: can gps antenna be disconnected from neo mainboard? |
| 11:21.47 | XorA | time to check for cracked solder joints from the fall |
| 11:22.36 | mickeyl | hrw: i think so. how's it attached? |
| 11:23.29 | hrw | mickeyl: looks like removable |
| 11:23.35 | mickeyl | yep, it is |
| 11:23.41 | mickeyl | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 shows that as well |
| 11:23.45 | mickeyl | i never did it on a device though |
| 11:24.14 | hrw | I think that cable to that antenna will break first |
| 11:24.44 | mickeyl | well... depends on how often you will want to detach/attach ;) |
| 11:25.34 | hrw | mickeyl: p0 with covers taken off can be connected to debug board. but this need taking gps antenna off. so jtag == floating antenna on thin cable |
| 11:26.04 | mickeyl | hmm d'oh |
| 11:26.11 | mickeyl | that surprises me |
| 11:26.21 | mickeyl | perhaps they moved the position of the debug connector |
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| 11:27.10 | hrw | mickeyl: p0 is like http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware first photo |
| 11:27.11 | mickeyl | on my pre-p0 thingy i can attach the debug FPC right after removing the upper case |
| 11:27.45 | hrw | mickeyl: here too. but FPC is blocked by gps antenna cable |
| 11:27.56 | mickeyl | hmm aaah |
| 11:28.06 | mickeyl | you mean the angle is pretty steep |
| 11:28.09 | mickeyl | but it's not really blocked |
| 11:28.13 | mickeyl | that's the 'F' in FPC ;)) |
| 11:28.25 | hrw | I need to take gps antenna off the case to use fpc |
| 11:28.50 | mickeyl | could be i have not the final antenna |
| 11:28.55 | mickeyl | and that yours may be larger |
| 11:28.57 | XorA | on pre-p0 I have to take antena off to fit fpc, but I can put it back after fitting |
| 11:33.18 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@feldconf.feld.cvut.cz) |
| 11:33.38 | hrw | I will write to second Polish developer so we will make small hack session tomorrow |
| 11:34.03 | hrw | I will check does my fpc, debugboard, neo, neo battery are working or not |
| 11:35.07 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@c-68-42-68-205.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
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| 11:37.10 | *** join/#openmoko koen|galinhas (n=koen@189.16.225.25) |
| 11:37.35 | hrw | and all on Ania laptop which does not have Linux installed... |
| 11:38.01 | hrw | looks like sooner or later I will have to buy laptop ;( |
| 11:38.22 | buz | thats nearly as hard as buying a linux phone |
| 11:39.44 | hrw | buz: I think that it is easier to buy working linux laptop then working linux phone |
| 11:39.52 | buz | yes |
| 11:39.54 | buz | but still hard |
| 11:40.02 | buz | especially when you want a small one |
| 11:40.20 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r55 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (ftdi-eeprom-native.patch series): Removed ftdi-eeprom-native patch - now in OM svn. |
| 11:42.01 | rwhitby | XorA: on P0, I can put the antenna back in place after attaching debug cable. |
| 11:44.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1362 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: |
| 11:44.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: drivers/usbdfu.c (handle_upload): work around memory corruption caused by |
| 11:44.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: copying to too small buffer in URB |
| 11:49.26 | LarstiQ | buz: the X60s seems to work fine with Linux |
| 11:51.22 | hrw | LarstiQ: and is quite expensive |
| 11:51.30 | borg_ | my x41 works pretty nice with ubuntu |
| 11:51.40 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 11:51.41 | borg_ | even the thinklight und things linke this are working |
| 11:51.58 | borg_ | but this ibm/lenovo things are a bit expensive, yes |
| 11:52.02 | LarstiQ | hrw: compared to what? |
| 11:52.22 | *** join/#openmoko xyrouz (n=xyrouz@62.79.112.57.dhcp.ro.tiscali.dk) |
| 11:52.45 | hrw | LarstiQ: for 1000 EUR I prefer to buy amd64 x2 from asus |
| 11:53.36 | LarstiQ | hrw: The a6t? |
| 11:53.56 | hrw | LarstiQ: probably |
| 11:54.39 | hrw | LarstiQ: I have two choices. |
| 11:54.40 | *** join/#openmoko jsgotangco (n=jsg123@ubuntu/member/jsgotangco) |
| 11:54.48 | CM | LarstiQ: What about a macbook? |
| 11:54.49 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081E6FE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:54.57 | hrw | 1. fast laptop which will replace current desktop (which will be a buildbox) |
| 11:55.18 | hrw | 2. small laptop which I can get with when going for somewhere |
| 11:55.57 | LarstiQ | CM: waay to heavy |
| 11:56.23 | LarstiQ | hrw: after my current laptop breaking my back I've given up on the fast laptop, just want a light one |
| 12:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:01.19 | LarstiQ | hrw: ah, the a6t is also +- 1.5 kg above my limit |
| 12:05.57 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh_ (n=mikesh@feldconf.feld.cvut.cz) |
| 12:07.05 | florian | hrw: I'm pretty happy with 2. |
| 12:08.00 | hrw | florian: now the problem is: what to choose |
| 12:08.45 | buz | X60 have ridiculously low resolution |
| 12:08.50 | buz | at the very least, i want WXGA |
| 12:08.53 | buz | but i'd prefer SXGA+ |
| 12:09.03 | florian | hrw: I just bought an old X31, that's even fast enough to build OE if necessary. Nils has the same for some time now in still likes it. |
| 12:09.13 | buz | the killer would be panasonic Y5 but that's really pricey |
| 12:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 12:09.37 | buz | 14" sxga+, core duo, 1.5kg |
| 12:09.53 | buz | http://www.google.com/url?q=http://rover.ebay.com/rover/1/711-43310-8196-0/2%3Floc%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fcgi.ebay.com%252FPanasonic-Lets-Note-Toughbook-Y5-CF-Y5K-NEW-IN-BOX_W0QQitemZ220086054871QQcmdZViewItem&e=14823&fr=AA5D9z0OD0VOp9gkarRGEiAwMj6eRCWa8wAAAAAAAAAA&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=result&cd=2&usg=__DeXSrj-9ZNZiC105gEtZdNwEvMg= |
| 12:10.09 | florian | hrw: an additional fast workstation is that cheap that i bought one for home and one for work :-) |
| 12:10.22 | buz | florian: but its one more machine to admin |
| 12:10.34 | buz | i've gotten so lazy that i usually just use the docked notebook ;) |
| 12:11.16 | rwhitby | I got a note from one of the OpenMoko team (who shall remain nameless to protect his identity) regarding the Mike thread: "This guy is hilarious...somebody should call his mom and ask her to slap him ;-)" |
| 12:11.28 | florian | buz: right, but with Debian/Ubuntu rather trivial. |
| 12:11.38 | LarstiQ | buz: oh nice! |
| 12:11.48 | florian | I in fact have more or less the same config on all machines. |
| 12:11.49 | hrw | florian: does it take 1G ram? |
| 12:11.53 | buz | florian: true and you need a box with big disks anyhow |
| 12:12.02 | florian | hrw: yes |
| 12:12.23 | florian | hrw: 2 is max. iirc... ebay knows ;) |
| 12:12.26 | buz | LarstiQ: been drooling over the panasonic for a month now, i can see it coming, it must be bought at some point |
| 12:12.47 | buz | but i want it with international warranty |
| 12:12.53 | hrw | buz: r5 is nice. Sean has such |
| 12:13.06 | florian | buz: that panasonic looks pretty nice too, any idea if they survive several years of mobile use? |
| 12:13.27 | buz | florian: panasonic claims that they have been dropped from 1m in labs without any issues whatsoever |
| 12:13.47 | buz | mind you, panasonic also builds those toughbooks, they should know a thing or two about building durable notebooks |
| 12:13.49 | florian | buz: it does not look like i want to try it ;) |
| 12:14.21 | buz | mhh the r5 screen is too low resolution for me |
| 12:14.45 | buz | XGA is just soo 2000 |
| 12:14.48 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca) |
| 12:15.26 | buz | i can't, i already find 1600*1200 too small ;) |
| 12:15.30 | florian | That's what we have multiple desktops for... |
| 12:15.33 | guaqua | does panasonice have small laptops, like 12 inch monitor etc? |
| 12:15.47 | LarstiQ | florian: I usually work fullscreen, so they don't help there ;P |
| 12:15.51 | buz | guaqua: panasonic w5 is 12inch and 2.6pound |
| 12:15.57 | buz | LarstiQ: so do it |
| 12:16.05 | buz | multiple monitors help |
| 12:16.11 | florian | LarstiQ: hmmm? why this? |
| 12:16.15 | LarstiQ | buz: quite |
| 12:16.22 | buz | i just might kill for dual vga out laptop |
| 12:16.35 | LarstiQ | florian: while I might be able to deal with 1024x764, it still feels claustrophobic ;) |
| 12:16.37 | florian | buz: usb? :) |
| 12:16.59 | guaqua | what kind of price is that w5? |
| 12:17.05 | guaqua | arm, leg and a pair of trousers? |
| 12:17.08 | buz | 2000usd ish |
| 12:17.17 | florian | i must admit that i have 3200x1024 on my workstation (yes, two screens) |
| 12:17.49 | buz | guaqua: http://www.dynamism.com/w5/specs.shtml |
| 12:18.01 | buz | but dynamism is very expensive |
| 12:18.04 | buz | ebay should be a lot cheaper |
| 12:18.53 | guaqua | buz: yeah |
| 12:19.07 | buz | plus i have no idea if those things run linux |
| 12:19.16 | buz | basically, they should but who knows if suspend works |
| 12:20.04 | guaqua | might require a bit hacking |
| 12:20.13 | guaqua | looks sweet though |
| 12:20.26 | buz | with 2.6.20 it works beautifully on my toshiba portege |
| 12:20.34 | buz | even to encrypted swap, yeah |
| 12:21.22 | guaqua | gotta go now, later |
| 12:23.49 | koen|galinhas | heh |
| 12:23.59 | koen|galinhas | the community ml is great to kill time till the next talk |
| 12:24.04 | hrw | florian: so you suggest x31 or x32? |
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| 12:29.29 | florian | hrw: if i remember correctly the difference x30/x31 was critical, but if i remember correctly the x32 had a better cpu than the x31 |
| 12:29.33 | *** join/#openmoko dom__ (n=dom@juicy.ecs.soton.ac.uk) |
| 12:30.08 | florian | hrw: the x30 is too old to buy now, it has an old mobile (not M) cpu and shared memory graphics. |
| 12:31.12 | hrw | I saw that, so x31/x32 to consider. |
| 12:31.17 | robtaylor | hrw: x40 is nice if you can get a good price |
| 12:31.30 | hrw | robtaylor: what is good price for it? |
| 12:32.19 | florian | hrw: one of the reasons why quite a lot of us here have older ibm laptops is all sorts of replacement parts and useful accessories are cheap. |
| 12:32.31 | robtaylor | hrw: well i can see on one ebay uk for 578GBP |
| 12:32.40 | florian | the x40 should be another good choice |
| 12:32.56 | robtaylor | mine cost 1300GBP new |
| 12:33.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 12:33.22 | hrw | ~change 578 gbp to pln |
| 12:33.36 | buz | thats much too expensive |
| 12:33.43 | hrw | robtaylor: 2800 pln here |
| 12:33.48 | buz | i wouldnt pay more than 500EUR (tops) for a X40 |
| 12:34.01 | buz | you must also consider that you will likely have to buy a new battery soo |
| 12:34.04 | buz | n |
| 12:34.25 | florian | robtaylor, hrw: The disadvantage of the x40 might be the disks and lacking firewire iirc |
| 12:35.01 | hrw | florian: my desktop is second machine with firewire (which I never used) |
| 12:35.11 | robtaylor | florian: yeah, its a 1.7" disk, whch is a bugger to upgrade |
| 12:35.20 | florian | yep |
| 12:35.56 | florian | hrw: ah ok, i have several firewire disks so i really missed it in my x24 |
| 12:36.01 | robtaylor | but its a beautiful machine ;) |
| 12:36.43 | robtaylor | buz: yeah, if you're bidding you can probably get an x40 for <500 |
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| 12:37.48 | robtaylor | tbh though, i always buy my laptops new and with an extended warranty |
| 12:37.58 | robtaylor | safer that way :) |
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| 12:55.40 | ozamosi | Sean doesn't understand my humour :( |
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| 13:06.39 | florian | That reminds me that the battery of my 110CT is dead :-( |
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| 13:17.09 | Elrond | ozamosi - (assuming you posted the electron parody) I like your humor. :) |
| 13:17.45 | aloril | ozamosi: maybe he is thinking now "doh" ;-) |
| 13:18.20 | Elrond | Probably. ;) |
| 13:18.42 | TRIsoft | Hmm. So it was a joke ? Damn. We just finished the website with 10 / 50 / 100 litre bags with genuine Asian electrons... |
| 13:21.18 | Elrond | TRIsoft - How many electrons are that per litre? |
| 13:21.52 | XorA | Elrond: compressed or normal? |
| 13:22.00 | TRIsoft | Elrond: Just about a million. These are premium selected big electrons with extra power. |
| 13:22.56 | Elrond | XorA - RLE or lzma compressed? ;o) |
| 13:23.47 | XorA | TRIsoft: surely its 6.022x10^23 x number of electrons on a gas molecule, which is a whole lot more that a million |
| 13:24.19 | renihs | XorA, omg? |
| 13:24.20 | renihs | :) |
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| 13:24.33 | renihs | what molecule are you speaking about :) |
| 13:24.37 | XorA | for hydrogen 6.02x10^23 x 2 |
| 13:24.41 | renihs | nooo |
| 13:24.42 | TRIsoft | XorA: Yes, these are the US / European cheap electrons. The Asia premium ones are much bigger. |
| 13:24.47 | renihs | hydrogen has s1p1 |
| 13:24.48 | Elrond | XorA - I expect it to be proton and neutron free super premium electrons. ;) |
| 13:24.48 | pH5 | I wonder if big electrons are as sour as the ones in ordinary batteries. |
| 13:25.18 | TRIsoft | Sure. Only the red balls are real electrons :D |
| 13:25.19 | renihs | H = s1 :) |
| 13:25.20 | XorA | renihs: hydrogen gas is H2 though so two electrons a molecule |
| 13:25.26 | renihs | ya |
| 13:25.44 | renihs | why the 6.02x10^23 then? |
| 13:25.47 | renihs | :p |
| 13:25.55 | XorA | renihs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Avogadro's_number |
| 13:26.07 | renihs | ah ya but thats not the number of electrons :) |
| 13:26.12 | renihs | i new that number was familiar :) |
| 13:26.29 | XorA | renihs: thats why I said times number electrons on a molecule |
| 13:26.33 | Elrond | renihs - number of electons per Mol. |
| 13:26.37 | renihs | yaya :) |
| 13:26.45 | vmaster | heh, i wouldn't call distant memories of long lost chemistry lessons "familiar", but i remembered that number, too :) |
| 13:26.49 | Elrond | One Mol = 23l at 1bar, 20 degree C. ca. |
| 13:27.00 | renihs | 23LITER? |
| 13:27.03 | renihs | erm |
| 13:27.08 | Elrond | Yep. |
| 13:27.11 | Elrond | ca. |
| 13:27.12 | renihs | .... |
| 13:27.27 | XorA | I forgot the divide by 23 |
| 13:27.42 | XorA | its been 18 years |
| 13:27.49 | Elrond | XorA - ;o) |
| 13:27.52 | *** join/#openmoko koen|galinhas__ (n=koen@189.16.225.25) |
| 13:28.00 | Elrond | Hi koen|galinhas__ ! :) |
| 13:28.10 | renihs | :P |
| 13:28.26 | Elrond | koen|galinhas__ - Have you already ordered genuine premium asian electrons for your neo? ;o) |
| 13:28.58 | koen|galinhas | Elrond: no, I changed the PMU to be able to use unlocked electrons |
| 13:29.27 | XorA | koen|galinhas: overclock them as well then |
| 13:29.35 | XorA | koen|galinhas: and reun gentoo on them |
| 13:29.49 | SpeedEvil | Just don't use any 'electrons' you mayu have left over from trips to mirror universes. |
| 13:30.05 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *lol* :-) |
| 13:34.58 | Elrond | Hi mickeyl! |
| 13:35.32 | mickeyl | cheers Elrond |
| 13:37.05 | koen|galinhas | mickeyl: the collabra dudes want to get telepathy and farsight running on openmoko |
| 13:37.05 | mickeyl | koen: nice! |
| 13:37.29 | koen|galinhas | I'm updating the bits in OE right now, but screen decided to break :( |
| 13:38.38 | Elrond | mickeyl - I heard, you're in FFM from time to time? |
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| 13:39.44 | mickeyl | hehe, from time to time... yeah |
| 13:39.50 | mickeyl | actually i'm living there since 35 years |
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| 13:42.23 | Elrond | mickeyl - Ahh. :-) (I'm in Darmstadt) |
| 13:42.48 | mickeyl | quite around the corner |
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| 13:42.58 | atla | not that far away from heidelberg! :P |
| 13:43.45 | hrw | 1.5h by plane from here |
| 13:44.31 | Elrond | atla - Yeah. ;) |
| 13:48.46 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 13:49.01 | LuitvD | hello |
| 13:49.20 | Elrond | Hi LuitvD |
| 13:50.05 | LuitvD | hello Elrond |
| 13:51.10 | LuitvD | got a broken HTC Wizard battery... think it's worth replacing it? |
| 13:51.15 | LuitvD | anyone? |
| 13:51.57 | XorA | LuitvD: I like the Wizard |
| 13:52.33 | LuitvD | XorA: got one of a friend... broken, he thinks :P |
| 13:52.40 | LuitvD | I think it's just the battery |
| 13:52.55 | XorA | LuitvD: pity its an annoying 5 terminal job |
| 13:52.59 | LuitvD | (battery is completely dead, 0V on the terminals) |
| 13:53.15 | LuitvD | XorA: 5-terminal? 6 pins :) |
| 13:53.34 | XorA | LuitvD: misremebered, Im currently surfing on mine :-) |
| 13:53.42 | LuitvD | lol |
| 13:54.04 | Elrond | Using a good lab PSU is a bad idea? |
| 13:54.12 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 13:54.13 | Elrond | (I wouldn't be brave enough, really) |
| 13:54.24 | SpeedEvil | 0V on terminals may not mean dead battery. |
| 13:54.37 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: then what? :P |
| 13:54.46 | SpeedEvil | Some batteries require two pins to be connected before they will present voltage on the output trems. |
| 13:54.50 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: it won't charge, and it won't hold charge |
| 13:55.02 | XorA | lab PSU is great, you just start at zero amps and ramp up slowly |
| 13:55.05 | SpeedEvil | Dissect it, and replace the cells. |
| 13:55.16 | LuitvD | err... |
| 13:55.23 | LuitvD | I guess it's a 1-cell battery |
| 13:55.51 | SpeedEvil | s/lls/ll/ |
| 13:55.53 | XorA | LuitvD: go into mobile phone shop and see if they lend you a battery for 5 mins :-) |
| 13:56.02 | LuitvD | :) |
| 13:56.07 | LuitvD | might be a nice option |
| 13:57.23 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: and where on mars do i find a new battery cell? |
| 13:57.23 | SpeedEvil | If the cell is actually at 0V, there is a non-zero risk in recharging it. |
| 13:57.30 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: ebay. |
| 13:58.05 | SpeedEvil | Look for one of approximately right dimensions, connect up the new cell to the old connectors, and preserve any connections to thermistors or stuff. |
| 13:58.28 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@251.9.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 13:58.41 | LuitvD | i can get a brand new battery pack for 24 bucks including shipping... |
| 13:59.05 | Hadaka | hmmh, the battery on the phone was nokia compatible, wasn't it? |
| 13:59.08 | LuitvD | think getting a li-ion cell is worth more then getting a brand new li-po device? |
| 13:59.32 | LuitvD | Hadaka: the battery in the FIC Neo is compatible with some nokia batteries |
| 13:59.48 | LuitvD | Hadaka: we're talking about the HTC Wizard 200 atm |
| 13:59.56 | Hadaka | LuitvD: ah, sorry, didn't pay attention |
| 13:59.57 | LuitvD | (the WIZA16 model) |
| 14:00.21 | Hadaka | but, well, atleast I won't be running out of replacement batteries for the FIC Neo then :) |
| 14:00.55 | LuitvD | I hope I won't need a replacement battery ;) |
| 14:01.14 | LuitvD | those things should last for 10 years with the correct use |
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| 14:01.52 | SpeedEvil | $10 on ebay. Not a problem :) |
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| 14:15.01 | Elrond | LuitvD - How much costs a new battery in a shop? |
| 14:15.24 | LuitvD | found a nice online shop which ship it at 24 euros |
| 14:16.01 | LuitvD | dunno what shops in my town ask for one... I'll go find out tomorrow :) |
| 14:16.04 | Elrond | LuitvD - Well, a good shop lets you first try it, and if it doesn't work, you can give it back. |
| 14:16.53 | LuitvD | yeah |
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| 14:36.39 | buz | 24EUR? sounds expensive considering you can buy nokia phones for 50EUR |
| 14:36.44 | buz | unsubsized |
| 14:37.25 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 14:41.02 | LuitvD | the HTC Wizard is a bit more then just a phone :P |
| 14:41.08 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 14:47.43 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 14:48.23 | buz | oh i thought you were talking about the bl-5c |
| 14:48.30 | buz | but HTC is eeeeevil |
| 14:48.34 | buz | very much dark side |
| 14:52.02 | TRIsoft | gtg bye |
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| 15:02.34 | *** join/#openmoko koen|galinhas (n=koen@189.16.225.25) |
| 15:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko MandarinoatWork (n=Mandarin@131.Red-80-26-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:04.59 | MandarinoatWork | ;) |
| 15:05.05 | MandarinoatWork | Hi Bot? |
| 15:05.06 | aloril | MandarinoatWork: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 15:05.08 | MandarinoatWork | xD |
| 15:06.13 | *** join/#openmoko wookieface (n=benjamin@x1-6-00-03-2f-29-99-b9.k334.webspeed.dk) |
| 15:06.29 | aevin | haha :) |
| 15:07.28 | Mandarino | aevin: how are you? |
| 15:08.06 | aevin | i'm fine. just got up. having breakfast. |
| 15:08.11 | aevin | doh! |
| 15:08.21 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@131.Red-80-26-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:08.37 | aevin | 16:09 < aevin> i'm fine. just got up. having breakfast. |
| 15:08.42 | Mandarino | sorry |
| 15:08.45 | aevin | Mandarino: having trouble with your connection? |
| 15:08.59 | aloril | Mandarino: hehe |
| 15:09.07 | Mandarino | No I click on the "x" |
| 15:09.19 | Mandarino | I'm cool |
| 15:09.27 | wookieface | is the "neo1973 phase 2" the phone with the "hardware refresh"(including wifi)? |
| 15:09.28 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some model later this year probably will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 15:09.51 | wookieface | lol |
| 15:10.43 | buz | yeah phase2 *should* have wifi |
| 15:11.26 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3E7F8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:11.37 | wookieface | ok |
| 15:11.55 | wookieface | and that would be the "mass market one", right? |
| 15:12.22 | aevin | yes. phase 2 targets mass market (september-ish) |
| 15:12.44 | wookieface | ok, nice |
| 15:12.46 | aevin | and the hardware refresh will be between phase 1 and phase 2 (some like to clal it phase 1.5) |
| 15:13.15 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:13.29 | wookieface | do you know if the audio jack will be a 3.5 at that time? |
| 15:13.31 | aevin | counter |
| 15:13.31 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 20:46:28 (17.866 +-7.0 days) (536) |
| 15:13.58 | aevin | wookieface: no. i haven't heard any mention of that they're gonna change the 2.5 mm to a 3.5 mm one. |
| 15:14.13 | wookieface | ok, than i'll have to buy an adapter.. :p |
| 15:15.12 | buz | is sdio wifi standardised in anyway? |
| 15:15.27 | aevin | but they haven't been specific about what to refresh, so who knows. but i doubt they'll make too big changes in the hardware layout, but a audio jack shouldnt be that had to change, but would need a small redesign of the casing. |
| 15:15.49 | buz | i think the audio jack was already ruled out |
| 15:16.12 | buz | small changes to casing are actually very expensive, as sean told the list last night |
| 15:16.29 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 15:16.30 | aevin | some months ago i saw a RF company displaying some prototypes they had with WiFi integrated in the SIM card. |
| 15:16.44 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 15:17.35 | aevin | buz: okay. i haven't caught up on the list yet, but i'm not surprised. we'll survive with 2.5 mm :) |
| 15:20.22 | buz | i still wonder if it is really that expensive to retool a case |
| 15:20.39 | buz | especially considering just who owns fic |
| 15:20.56 | Stephmw | volumes I guess |
| 15:21.01 | XorA | aevin: jack change is pointless as its a 4pole jack anyway so you would still need an adapter for headphones |
| 15:21.30 | buz | maybe you could get away with some smart jack |
| 15:21.35 | buz | and no adapter |
| 15:21.36 | SpeedEvil | Not if the jack for the headset was compatible. |
| 15:21.48 | buz | something along the line of the shuffle2 jack |
| 15:21.53 | buz | which also serves as usb connector |
| 15:21.58 | aevin | XorA: okay. thanks for info :) |
| 15:22.42 | SpeedEvil | The tooling for the case - for volume is many, many thousand dollars. |
| 15:22.57 | SpeedEvil | Per case then is tiny fractions of a dollar. |
| 15:23.36 | prpplague | i would guess that the tooling for the neo was in the order of about $40k USD |
| 15:23.59 | SpeedEvil | That's probably in the ballpark. |
| 15:24.07 | buz | that doesnt seem that prohibitive to me considering they are already yanking the cpu in rev2 |
| 15:24.19 | SpeedEvil | Yanking the CPU may be almost free. |
| 15:24.27 | SpeedEvil | Depending on design. |
| 15:24.35 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: probably another $10k or so if they went with an extra hard metal |
| 15:24.37 | buz | or better deal with the new vendor |
| 15:24.49 | SpeedEvil | If it's a pin-for-pin compatible CPU, you just change the order number, and some firmware. |
| 15:25.00 | SpeedEvil | Even if not pin compatible, you hit 'route' on the autorouter. |
| 15:25.01 | buz | i dont think there is one |
| 15:25.03 | SpeedEvil | and you're done. |
| 15:25.19 | SpeedEvil | There is no large up-front cost with PCBs. |
| 15:25.24 | *** join/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
| 15:25.35 | prpplague | buz: i'm currently working on sdio wifi interface for the marvell libertas chipset |
| 15:25.46 | prpplague | buz: also with the s3c24xx as the host cpu |
| 15:25.51 | prpplague | buz: and its slow going |
| 15:25.58 | buz | any chance to get that working? |
| 15:26.11 | SpeedEvil | You mean for the chip alone, or using a SDIO card? |
| 15:26.20 | prpplague | buz: absolutely, got to get it working withing the next 30-45 days, hehe |
| 15:26.21 | buz | i wonder if one could simply stick the whole chip with sdio interface onto the board |
| 15:26.28 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: actually both |
| 15:26.31 | buz | did you tell sean? |
| 15:26.36 | buz | sort of like soldered in sdcard |
| 15:27.19 | prpplague | http://www.zcomax.com/1mbfile/G%20product/XG-880M_specification%20.pdf |
| 15:27.19 | prpplague | buz: don't know sean |
| 15:27.22 | buz | that doesnt really matter ;) |
| 15:27.41 | buz | i'm sure he'd love to hear from you ;) |
| 15:27.46 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@131.Red-80-26-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:28.15 | prpplague | buz: hehe, well, someone would have to point me to an email adress or nick |
| 15:28.15 | SpeedEvil | Happen to know ballpark BOM for the marvell? |
| 15:28.17 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 15:28.27 | SpeedEvil | Community mailing list archives |
| 15:29.07 | buz | sean@openmoko.com |
| 15:29.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i do, but i can't say, but its very reasonable |
| 15:29.32 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: sean is with FIC? |
| 15:29.40 | buz | he's the project lead |
| 15:29.50 | SpeedEvil | sean@ openmoko.com |
| 15:30.00 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:30.34 | Elrond | Am I the only one, who got Sean's "thanks" mail duped? |
| 15:30.39 | parag0n | i reckon it'd be better to have a second internal SDIO slot, which ships with the wifi card already in it |
| 15:30.46 | inz | buz, he is the project ;) |
| 15:30.50 | prpplague | http://www.sparklan.com/product_details.php?prod_id=80 |
| 15:30.52 | SpeedEvil | SDIO is bulky. |
| 15:30.58 | aevin | Mandarino: are you still hitting that 'X' ? ;-) |
| 15:30.59 | buz | Elrond: no got it double as well |
| 15:31.03 | parag0n | that way if poeple dont want it, they can yank it and stick in a second SD card |
| 15:31.20 | prpplague | parag0n: and if generally have to pay license for actual "slots" |
| 15:31.23 | buz | parag0n: according to sean, sd slot is not gonna happen in 1.5 |
| 15:31.25 | prpplague | parag0n: no slot, no fees |
| 15:31.34 | SpeedEvil | SDIO card internal means that you need a large internal volume for the antenna. |
| 15:31.47 | SpeedEvil | As there is no real standard position/size. |
| 15:31.55 | buz | dont you always need space for an antenna |
| 15:31.57 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD_ (n=luitvd@sd5116826.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 15:31.58 | SpeedEvil | Or lock it in to one card. |
| 15:32.11 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@c83-252-108-234.bredband.comhem.se) |
| 15:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@251.9.39-62.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 15:32.26 | prpplague | buz: yes, but not always directly at the area where the card is |
| 15:32.27 | SpeedEvil | Yes - but locking it in to one card, with a certain antenna size, when it might be EOL'd by the maker in the next week... |
| 15:32.42 | buz | sdio cards are way too expensive |
| 15:32.45 | buz | it needs to be integrated |
| 15:32.45 | SpeedEvil | yeha |
| 15:32.53 | buz | or fic needs to make one |
| 15:32.55 | prpplague | agreed |
| 15:33.07 | buz | and commit to shipping it over whole of neos life time |
| 15:33.56 | SpeedEvil | A microSD sized 'TYPE V' sort of card - 10mm thick might be interesting. |
| 15:33.57 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: there are 4 or 5 other companies making the 88w8385 sdio modules, so zcomax isn't the only choice |
| 15:34.09 | SpeedEvil | For camera/wifi cards. |
| 15:34.45 | buz | what is the power envelope for the marvell chip? |
| 15:34.46 | SpeedEvil | And large storage capacity cards. - say 40G. |
| 15:35.24 | buz | SpeedEvil: when half of the phones using microsd are thinner than 10mm its not really very realistic |
| 15:36.02 | prpplague | buz: pretty standard, around 350mA peak during tx |
| 15:36.10 | prpplague | buz: but has some power saving modes |
| 15:36.11 | buz | prpplague: that driver of yours, is it gpl? |
| 15:36.58 | prpplague | buz: yea, its based on the libertas driver from the olpc project http://projects.linuxtogo.org/projects/marvell8385/ |
| 15:37.01 | parag0n | if its going to have wifi, it'd better have WPA support! |
| 15:37.14 | parag0n | it'd be useless without ;) |
| 15:37.17 | buz | agreed |
| 15:37.20 | buz | WPA2 even |
| 15:37.23 | parag0n | aye |
| 15:38.16 | *** join/#openmoko Mandarino (n=Mandarin@131.Red-80-26-116.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 15:38.20 | Mandarino | re :( |
| 15:38.25 | Mandarino | Fax sux |
| 15:41.02 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 15:41.06 | prpplague | parag0n: yea the wpa support works with the cf interface right now |
| 15:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko yacc (n=andreas@h1634.serverkompetenz.net) |
| 15:41.11 | prpplague | TimRiker: TIMMMY! |
| 15:41.28 | parag0n | prpplague, awesome |
| 15:41.48 | buz | prpplague just might get that free phone |
| 15:41.56 | prpplague | buz: ? |
| 15:42.11 | buz | sean promised a free phone for the guy who finds him a working chipset |
| 15:43.06 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 15:43.12 | yacc | Just wondering, is the Neo now buyable to the general public (it might be buggy, but basically useable as a simple phone)? |
| 15:43.28 | thresh | counter |
| 15:43.28 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 20:16:31 (17.845 +-7.0 days) (537) |
| 15:43.45 | buz | prpplague: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-March/000007.html |
| 15:45.22 | mjr | yacc, it will be, in p1 (see aloril's time estimate) |
| 15:46.00 | prpplague | buz: looks like sean already ruled out using the libertas chipset |
| 15:46.05 | mjr | yacc, though it'll be targeted for developers, you don't actually have to show a developer certificate or anything :] |
| 15:46.40 | yacc | mjr: I can live with that. I can hack gtk/c well enough so that even that would be fun :) |
| 15:48.05 | yacc | mjr: My problem is that my current 9500 is starting to fail, and I see no point trying to do Symbian developement on Linux. It's a PITA at best. ;) |
| 15:48.15 | buz | same with my p900 |
| 15:48.35 | buz | but i'm trying to hold out until summer |
| 15:48.39 | buz | i realllly want wifi |
| 15:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 15:55.13 | yacc | Well, there will be rabate for p1 buyer. |
| 15:55.39 | yacc | I admit I tend to use up phones usually below one year. |
| 15:56.06 | yacc | No idea why nobody does sensible smartphones that are stable for everyday usage ;) |
| 15:56.16 | mjr | heh |
| 15:56.19 | ecraven | ah, 2 weeks! |
| 15:56.25 | mjr | I've used my n-gage for several years now |
| 15:56.29 | mjr | works for gprs... |
| 15:56.30 | buz | well i first want to know how that discount looks like |
| 15:56.34 | ecraven | how are opinions on the neo so far? |
| 15:56.51 | buz | invalid |
| 15:56.58 | buz | the current device is a very early one |
| 15:57.21 | ecraven | will there be hardware changes after P1? |
| 15:57.37 | yacc | ecraven: yes |
| 15:58.00 | CM | ecraven: Sean suggested that in the FOSDEM talk, and some more in mails to the list |
| 15:58.04 | yacc | ecraven: the cpu will be faster, and one mystery addition, albeit no one knows what they'll manage to come up with. |
| 15:58.23 | buz | prpplague: look at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko |
| 15:58.40 | CM | yacc: In the last announce mail they were looking for a wifi chip with gpl drivers.. |
| 15:58.40 | buz | We really need a chipset (and even beyond that: Somebody manufacturing SMT modules with that chipset) |
| 15:58.48 | ecraven | so it might be worth it to wait longer than P1 to get one :) |
| 15:59.10 | TimRiker | prpplague: heya! where you at? |
| 15:59.21 | buz | looks to me like zcomax could fill the call |
| 15:59.24 | *** join/#openmoko wiskyMike (n=shaweet@ip68-100-133-129.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 15:59.54 | SpeedEvil | The mailing list needs avatars. |
| 16:01.18 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-218-21.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 16:03.30 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:06.00 | SpeedEvil | I hadn't realised how low SDIO wifi adaptors have gotten. Around 18 quid ($35) on ebay. |
| 16:06.40 | XorA | we just need that SDIO wifi class driver in mainline |
| 16:06.54 | SpeedEvil | Is there a SDIO wifi class? |
| 16:07.05 | SpeedEvil | I thought there was only GPS, bluetooth, and camera |
| 16:07.56 | XorA | gah I was hoping there was a WiFi one to save us chasing non existant specs |
| 16:08.09 | SpeedEvil | I'm _pretty_ sure that tehre isn't. |
| 16:09.23 | buz | prpplague: i added this to the wiki "According to prplague on #openmoko, http://www.zcomax.com/1mbfile/G%20product/XG-880M_specification%20.pdf for which he is writing a GPL driver might fit the requirements." |
| 16:10.50 | aevin | the small chipset manufacturers that works with the FOSS community by giving out specs for GPL'd drivers needs to be rewarded by getting some volume too. |
| 16:11.26 | buz | yeah |
| 16:11.30 | aevin | i'm glad Sean seems to be more strict about his freedom policy than the OLPC team. |
| 16:11.33 | renihs | yaaaa wifi wifi wifi!!!! |
| 16:11.51 | renihs | i dont wanna to plug a usb-wifi card to use it :( |
| 16:12.00 | SpeedEvil | You don't have to. |
| 16:12.05 | renihs | i dont? |
| 16:12.11 | renihs | i thought neo didnt include wifi |
| 16:12.12 | SpeedEvil | You can desolder the bluetooth module, and fit a wifi one. |
| 16:12.17 | renihs | ah ok |
| 16:12.19 | buz | aevin: if there IS one of those manufacturers |
| 16:12.42 | aevin | buz: true. let's hope so. |
| 16:12.45 | renihs | SpeedEvil, so there will be an option of getting it with wifi OR bluetooth? |
| 16:12.53 | buz | nanoradio looks reaaaally impressive |
| 16:12.58 | SpeedEvil | Only if you have a soldering iron license. |
| 16:13.09 | renihs | SpeedEvil, a what what? |
| 16:13.21 | SpeedEvil | It is not an option. |
| 16:13.35 | renihs | i dont catch your drift :) |
| 16:13.36 | aevin | i don't know what volumes FIC can use as bait with the chip vendors, but ... probably less than OLPC project, so. we'll see. |
| 16:13.56 | SpeedEvil | It is 'take the bluetooth module off' 'find a wifi USB module that fits in the same space' 'attach wifi module.' |
| 16:14.06 | SpeedEvil | Entirely unsupported. |
| 16:15.28 | aevin | buz: yes, i had a look at nanoradio too. didn't say too much about their specs, now did it? but power consumptions og gpl compatability is still unanswered, but there's a hope though. |
| 16:16.26 | aevin | renihs: SpeedEvil is talking about modifying the phone yourself, by exchange the BT chip with a Wifi chip. not somehting the average Joe is going to do. |
| 16:16.27 | SpeedEvil | I've clicked the 'become a partner' link, with minimal contact info. |
| 16:16.39 | SpeedEvil | On the nanoradio site. |
| 16:16.54 | SpeedEvil | They probably won't respond. |
| 16:17.21 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@teacheradsl241.eduhi.at) |
| 16:17.43 | aevin | i bet nanoradio really notices the bump in web traffic caused by OpenMokoers :) |
| 16:17.47 | renihs | aevin, ah i have no problem with that, but i guess i cant get it without a bluetooth pre-wired at all? |
| 16:18.13 | aevin | renihs: nope. |
| 16:18.28 | renihs | narf |
| 16:18.31 | SpeedEvil | XorA: There is a SDIO function code for wifi. |
| 16:19.14 | *** join/#openmoko ucordes (n=ucordes@dslb-084-062-047-101.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 16:19.14 | ucordes | hey all |
| 16:20.57 | ucordes | aevin: have fun :) |
| 16:21.25 | SpeedEvil | You should really eat it at 3:48:58AM though. |
| 16:22.02 | SpeedEvil | Err 3:49:20 |
| 16:22.21 | XorA | 3:14:16 |
| 16:22.58 | SpeedEvil | No - 3:49:20 AM on 3/14 |
| 16:23.03 | ucordes | 5:22:14 |
| 16:23.16 | SpeedEvil | Which is 3.14 15926 fractional day |
| 16:23.36 | ucordes | do you have a firm release date for the neo phone? |
| 16:23.40 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:23.48 | SpeedEvil | 'Late march' is as good as anyone has. |
| 16:23.49 | aevin | 3.141593 -> march 14 @ 15:93 ;-) |
| 16:24.06 | aevin | or march 14 , year 1593 |
| 16:24.11 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: is it possible to open the sales so quick? |
| 16:24.19 | SpeedEvil | I don't know. |
| 16:24.30 | SpeedEvil | That is the latest information there is. |
| 16:24.39 | ucordes | for me something around late march sounds like late june or so :( |
| 16:24.51 | SpeedEvil | They have been pretty good in announcing delays in the past. |
| 16:24.59 | ucordes | are there phone providers that ordered it yet? |
| 16:25.08 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 16:27.25 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 16:27.25 | ucordes | or is that secret :) |
| 16:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 16:28.28 | SpeedEvil | No phone providers at this stage. |
| 16:28.34 | SpeedEvil | You buy it from openmoko.com |
| 16:28.45 | ucordes | can i pre order? |
| 16:28.53 | PBeck | hi |
| 16:29.13 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:29.17 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: are you interested in beta testers=?# |
| 16:29.23 | ucordes | i would like to contribute :) |
| 16:29.28 | SpeedEvil | Well, you can, but not yet, and the preorder site hsan't been opened. |
| 16:29.37 | SpeedEvil | Adn all the beta testers have been sent their hardware. |
| 16:29.57 | SpeedEvil | There is no way you can get it before when the handsets go on sale, in late march. |
| 16:30.23 | SpeedEvil | Well - you could offer several thousand dollars for a P0 phone. |
| 16:30.26 | aloril | ucordes: mass market is at september (phone providers, etc..) |
| 16:30.28 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: I'm really excited on this |
| 16:31.18 | ucordes | aloril: ok i see. you have any approximations if there are phone providers willing to buy it? |
| 16:31.33 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: how many beta testers do you have? |
| 16:31.36 | aloril | ucordes: you can subscribe to announce mailing list to know when pre-ordering becomes available http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/announce |
| 16:31.48 | SpeedEvil | Tehre are 36 people with hardware |
| 16:32.00 | aloril | ucordes: well.. I think Sean has mentioned somewhere that there is interest |
| 16:32.04 | SpeedEvil | and I'm not one of them - or a core team member, just an interested party. |
| 16:32.05 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: I hope they are useful |
| 16:32.22 | ucordes | aloril: who's sean? |
| 16:32.24 | ucordes | connery? :P |
| 16:32.42 | aloril | ucordes: he started this whole project |
| 16:32.45 | *** part/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@61-230-74-81.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 16:32.51 | ucordes | aloril: oh ok |
| 16:33.15 | ucordes | so you people are his emloyees? |
| 16:33.29 | LarstiQ | no, mostly interested third party people |
| 16:33.59 | SpeedEvil | There are no employes active at teh moment. |
| 16:34.13 | SpeedEvil | Some people with hardware are lurking here. |
| 16:34.17 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: but you they will sell your platform. won't you get money for this? |
| 16:34.24 | SpeedEvil | Most of us are just waiting for late march. |
| 16:34.30 | SpeedEvil | It's not my platform. |
| 16:34.37 | SpeedEvil | And not directly. |
| 16:34.50 | SpeedEvil | I plan on making some money by making specific hardware for the neo. |
| 16:35.25 | ucordes | so you're not one of the openmoko devs? |
| 16:35.47 | aloril | ucordes: you might want to read http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ , http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 and http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review if you haven't read them already |
| 16:35.53 | ucordes | SpeedEvil: well i will donate some for you if you will make an atheros wireless interface for it :) |
| 16:36.15 | ucordes | ok |
| 16:36.20 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 16:36.21 | ucordes | I have to thanks for the info |
| 16:39.33 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
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| 16:42.59 | LuitvD_ | hmm. does anybody here know which pins on the battery terminal of the HTC Wizard need to be connected, and at what voltage? |
| 16:43.00 | aloril | LuitvD_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 16:43.17 | LuitvD_ | lol, wrong trigger? :P |
| 16:44.49 | CM | LuitvD_: It missed because of your _ ;) |
| 16:44.50 | aloril | hehe, you haven't talked yet using this nick ;-) |
| 16:45.13 | LuitvD_ | hmm |
| 16:45.18 | LuitvD_ | how did that _ get there :P |
| 16:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-42-90.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 16:49.25 | noidd | Anyknow know if you have to nand wipe the uboot section of memory before you reflash uboot? |
| 16:56.46 | aloril | he is out? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-March/004290.html |
| 16:57.19 | aloril | (actually 2 messages backwards) |
| 16:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 17:00.04 | buz | sounds too good to be true |
| 17:01.14 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 17:03.09 | prpplague | TimRiker: finally back in the DFW area, however, my wife's visa is on hold again |
| 17:04.20 | noidd | who'd have thought it |
| 17:06.14 | noidd | I really wish j suggs had not written what he had tho |
| 17:06.26 | noidd | it is one thing to be privately happy that someone has left |
| 17:06.37 | noidd | it is quite another thing and unprofessional to behave like they did |
| 17:06.59 | noidd | Whether people realise it or not every post reflects on the project and FIC |
| 17:07.08 | noidd | people need to remmeber that before they post bullshit like that. |
| 17:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_x (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 17:12.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
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| 17:24.35 | aloril | noidd: yeah, its almost always better keep 'cool' |
| 17:25.18 | prpplague | hmm, who here is Gabriel Ambuehl? |
| 17:25.27 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:28.09 | DukeOfURL | Speed: how will you package your add-in hardware? As a USB device or internal to the phone? |
| 17:30.00 | aloril | P0 blog: http://bluelightningnz.blogspot.com/2007/03/openmoko.html |
| 17:31.21 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: add in hardware? whatcha planning to add? |
| 17:37.00 | SpeedEvil | See [[Extension Back]] |
| 17:37.16 | SpeedEvil | Oh good! We now have a GPL licensing discussion on the mailing list. |
| 17:37.20 | SpeedEvil | That's always fun/. |
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| 17:41.49 | Elrond | No, really? (just came home... have to boot the mailer) |
| 17:42.32 | *** join/#openmoko mako__ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 17:47.34 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: "See [[Extension Back]]" ? |
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| 17:53.29 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: for what its worth, i updated the wiki page with some additional information http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/WiFi_support_in_OpenMoko |
| 17:55.20 | loufoque | GPL is stupid, but it serves a useful purpose. |
| 17:58.07 | vmaster | hehehe |
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| 18:02.45 | loufoque | I don't even understand how you can prevent linking by legal means. |
| 18:03.37 | cjb | loufoque: huh? it doesn't; linking is use, not distribution. |
| 18:03.42 | cjb | perhaps you need to re-read the GPL. |
| 18:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 18:04.53 | loufoque | it prevents distribution of applications that need GPL code to be linked to be used, or applications that link GPL code at runtime. |
| 18:04.55 | prpplague | buz: i tweaked your wiki entry |
| 18:06.43 | loufoque | at least, there were several lawsuits related to those issues |
| 18:07.25 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: where did you see some sdio stacks for bt and camera in the main tree? |
| 18:08.24 | MacNorth | rwhitby: thanks, i updated the mokomakefile wiki page to reflect that |
| 18:12.09 | LuitvD | hmm, SpeedEvil still here? |
| 18:12.11 | *** join/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 18:12.39 | aloril2 | loufoque: abolish copyright, then there is less need for GPL |
| 18:12.46 | prpplague | LuitvD: think he's afk |
| 18:14.03 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@141.60.168.3) |
| 18:14.18 | LuitvD | anybody know if this is any good for it's price? http://cgi.ebay.ie/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=180049504098&ssPageName=MERCOSI_VI_ROSI_PR4_PCN_BIX_Stores&refitem=180094622131&itemcount=4&refwidgetloc=closed_view_item&refwidgettype=osi_widget |
| 18:14.27 | SpeedEvil | proplague: no - it's just that IIRC there is a standard interface. |
| 18:14.47 | SpeedEvil | For example, GPS has a standard presentation as a 16550 mapped onto the memory space. |
| 18:14.51 | LuitvD | 13 euro's for a battery + shipping |
| 18:15.10 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: is it worth it's cost? |
| 18:15.26 | LuitvD | htc wizard battery shipped for 13 |
| 18:15.58 | SpeedEvil | I have no idea. If you are happy with the cost, then it's possibly worth it to you. |
| 18:16.18 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh ok |
| 18:16.33 | SpeedEvil | prpplague: [[foo]] is a general term to refer to the page on 'foo' on a wiki |
| 18:16.45 | SpeedEvil | in this case, the openmoko wiki at wiki.openmoko.org |
| 18:16.47 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: think it's possible to find any cheaper? |
| 18:17.01 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: because i've writen my own interace for the s3c2410 sdio controler based on keffels sd driver |
| 18:17.06 | SpeedEvil | I have no idea. Generally ebay is a cheap source of batteries. |
| 18:17.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i thought so, but i didn't get a page back for that |
| 18:17.38 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Expansion_Back |
| 18:18.06 | SpeedEvil | IME, you won't generally find cheaper than ebay locally, if that's what you mean. |
| 18:18.11 | prpplague | ahh, was searching for "extension" |
| 18:18.52 | SpeedEvil | Sorry. |
| 18:19.28 | buz | you tweaked it like how? |
| 18:19.33 | buz | i dont see any difference ;) |
| 18:19.36 | *** part/#openmoko b_lindeijer (n=bjorn@lindeijer.xs4all.nl) |
| 18:20.14 | buz | doesnt matter though ;) |
| 18:20.38 | buz | SpeedEvil: according to your earlier calculation that costs 40K setup costs ;) |
| 18:20.50 | SpeedEvil | The key is to memorise the whole wiki, then you just read the diffs. |
| 18:20.52 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 18:20.54 | prpplague | buz: added some info with url's and some notes about the sychip chipset |
| 18:20.57 | SpeedEvil | That's for mass production. |
| 18:21.00 | buz | ah |
| 18:21.02 | buz | sure |
| 18:21.08 | SpeedEvil | I would not be doing mass production, but onesy-twosy. |
| 18:21.08 | buz | the ar6k stuff looks promising |
| 18:21.20 | loufoque | aloril2: I doubt artists would like it |
| 18:21.26 | buz | custom injection molding is prohibitively expensive |
| 18:21.43 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: you can get SLA's done for around $300USD each |
| 18:22.08 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: problem we found with the USB dongles for wifi is that consume way too much power |
| 18:22.09 | hrw | cu |
| 18:22.10 | SpeedEvil | Abolish the insane copyrights that we currently have. Make it 15 years, or 10 years after death. |
| 18:22.13 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:22.15 | prpplague | hrw: later |
| 18:22.23 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. If you keep them on all the time. |
| 18:22.25 | hrw | prpplague: I added some infoto wifi page |
| 18:22.33 | prpplague | hrw: cool deal |
| 18:22.37 | SpeedEvil | For some apps it's fine. |
| 18:22.47 | buz | 10 years after dead? try ten years after registration |
| 18:22.54 | hrw | embedded works have 10x10x2mm chips |
| 18:23.03 | buz | i truly dont see why anyone should be allowed to make money from stuff they did 50 years ago |
| 18:23.09 | MacNorth | rwhitby: nevermind, the error persists: http://rafb.net/p/OCQLvb37.html |
| 18:23.10 | hrw|conference | cu Monday |
| 18:23.20 | SpeedEvil | 15 years max, and capped at 10 years from production if the author dies. |
| 18:23.22 | MacNorth | openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates_svn.bb DNE |
| 18:23.30 | prpplague | hrw|conference: yea, problem we had with embedded works is they don't want to sell you the module without their driver development licenses |
| 18:23.59 | hrw|conference | prpplague: add to wiki |
| 18:24.02 | hrw|conference | bye |
| 18:24.05 | prpplague | hrw|conference: will do |
| 18:24.08 | prpplague | hrw|conference: later |
| 18:24.16 | buz | ah yes that's more like it |
| 18:24.22 | buz | and if copyright holder is a company,5 year |
| 18:24.38 | buz | something similar for patents |
| 18:24.54 | loufoque | If you abolish copyrights then that means artists could only earn money through concerts. |
| 18:25.05 | buz | why not |
| 18:25.20 | buz | stuff thats basically free to make should not have arbitrarily high costs |
| 18:25.22 | buz | prices |
| 18:25.32 | loufoque | patents shouldn't exist |
| 18:25.57 | buz | ah well theres a case to be made for patents |
| 18:26.02 | buz | just not for 17 years |
| 18:26.03 | SpeedEvil | _novel_ patents should. |
| 18:26.14 | SpeedEvil | And probably not for 17 years in software. |
| 18:26.19 | nbd | i think patents in general are ok, just software patents suck |
| 18:26.21 | SpeedEvil | I f you allow those at all. |
| 18:26.31 | *** join/#openmoko _etf|work (n=etf|work@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 18:26.39 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i'm constantly surprised that the USB group didn't make a 3.3v standard for USB |
| 18:26.46 | balrog-kun | if we were gardeners we would think gardenind related patents suck :p |
| 18:26.51 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: seems like they would have learned from the mistakes of pcmcia and cf |
| 18:26.55 | SpeedEvil | At the time it wasn't a very standard voltage. |
| 18:27.14 | SpeedEvil | 5V was needed for much stuff. |
| 18:27.35 | nbd | balrog-kun: no, the difference is with regular patents you have to encourage innovation, because research typically involves a lot more costs, e.g. for materials |
| 18:27.38 | SpeedEvil | If we're arguing about voltages, there should have also been a 30V 'high power' mode, that'd run most stuff without the need for power bricks. |
| 18:27.44 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: agreed, but at the time of release, it was already obvious that pcmcia and cf cards were moving to 3.3v support because of mobil useage |
| 18:27.50 | nbd | balrog-kun: with software, you don't have all these costs, and you can basically produce it for free |
| 18:28.08 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe, no argument, just comparing |
| 18:28.09 | SpeedEvil | You have a 'power hub' that has a large power supply, and provides 30V to all ports that want it. |
| 18:28.10 | nbd | balrog-kun: thus software is special in that area |
| 18:28.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea |
| 18:28.36 | balrog-kun | nbd: yea perhaps you're right |
| 18:28.37 | buz | software is already (over)protected by copyright |
| 18:28.40 | SpeedEvil | So for example, you could just plug in one cable to charge and use battery devices. |
| 18:28.51 | nbd | buz: yeah |
| 18:29.19 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z66e0.z.pppool.de) |
| 18:29.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: is the sd socket on the neo actually connected to the s3c2410's sdi or is it a spi based socket? |
| 18:29.29 | nbd | another thing is: patents were temporary monopolies only granted in return for a company sharing its secrets with everybody |
| 18:29.30 | SpeedEvil | No idea. |
| 18:29.35 | nbd | with software, the secret is out once the product is sold |
| 18:29.45 | nbd | thus the temporary monopoly is granted in return for essentially nothing |
| 18:29.49 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 18:29.54 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hmm |
| 18:29.57 | SpeedEvil | There is the argument that they encourage research. |
| 18:29.59 | buz | actually, with softpats and binary only, the secret is never truly shared |
| 18:30.10 | buz | SpeedEvil: they most likely do |
| 18:30.15 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 18:30.17 | buz | but shorter time spans would do too |
| 18:30.41 | SpeedEvil | IIRC there was a list of addresses on the SPI bus, that diddn't mention anything about the card. |
| 18:30.44 | nbd | buz: binary only doesn't stop people from reverse engineering |
| 18:30.46 | SpeedEvil | So... |
| 18:30.50 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti541210a080-12045.bb.online.no) |
| 18:30.53 | nbd | buz: reverse engineering software is a lot easier than reverse engineering hardware |
| 18:31.15 | buz | any idiot could RE the hardware that was in use at the time patents were invented |
| 18:31.54 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: you most likely could use the sd slot for a 88w8388 based card |
| 18:32.14 | buz | i thought sean explicitely said that one wont work |
| 18:32.21 | SpeedEvil | Sure it will. |
| 18:32.28 | SpeedEvil | Put a microSD-SD cable on it. |
| 18:32.31 | SpeedEvil | plug into the end. |
| 18:32.31 | buz | not for them |
| 18:32.39 | SpeedEvil | Of course, you lose the microSD. |
| 18:32.47 | SpeedEvil | There are also SPI-USB chips. |
| 18:32.51 | SpeedEvil | Which are fun. |
| 18:33.05 | SpeedEvil | Host and peripheral, $4 or so. |
| 18:34.02 | prpplague | buz: i'd have to see the schematic, or possible some kernel code, but if they used the sdi controller on the s3c2410 to the microsd slot, then you should be able to run as sdio |
| 18:34.39 | buz | i dont really want to sacrifice expansion memory though |
| 18:35.20 | SpeedEvil | It'd be nice if someone would do a SDIO-SDIO bridge chip. |
| 18:35.27 | prpplague | buz: you can add some sd/mmc easy with spi interface |
| 18:35.28 | SpeedEvil | SDIO cards can have 7 functions. |
| 18:35.37 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea |
| 18:35.44 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i was looking at that myself |
| 18:35.57 | SpeedEvil | If you made a 'bridge' chip, it could fake multiple function cards out of multiple cards. |
| 18:36.07 | buz | sdio hub |
| 18:36.09 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: once i have some stuff working, i'm gonna try using an avr to simulate a sdio device |
| 18:36.20 | SpeedEvil | Why? |
| 18:36.42 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:36.46 | buz | is there even any space in neo to stuff a minisdio card |
| 18:36.51 | buz | with cable i mean |
| 18:36.58 | SpeedEvil | A flat cable. |
| 18:37.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: to be able to use some specific hardware designs we need |
| 18:37.06 | SpeedEvil | It would fit round the SIM, out to the back. |
| 18:37.11 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 18:37.20 | buz | i dont want no flatcable outside the device |
| 18:37.28 | buz | thats gonna last for like 3minutes |
| 18:37.29 | buz | tops |
| 18:37.32 | SpeedEvil | I mean to an [[expansion back]] |
| 18:37.45 | buz | oh right. THAT one ;) |
| 18:38.22 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe, add a se955 symbol barcode scanner to your expansion pack too |
| 18:38.32 | SpeedEvil | Camera. |
| 18:38.34 | guaqua | i'd start drooling instantly if there was neo with wifi :/ |
| 18:39.34 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: oh, and also, if you are using the usb host controller on the s3c2410, its just usb 1.1 which means you will never get full G bandwidth |
| 18:39.46 | roh | you can remove a part of the plastic-resonator for the stereo-speakers and fiddle something small in there and wire it to the gpio/usb |
| 18:40.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: if you are happy with B bandwidth usb would be ok |
| 18:40.29 | SpeedEvil | Do I really care? The microSD probably can't even write at 54g speeds. |
| 18:40.38 | SpeedEvil | err 11g |
| 18:40.42 | buz | 1mbit wifi would be plenty |
| 18:40.52 | SpeedEvil | And you certainly can't do video at that rate. |
| 18:41.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, the sdi controller on the s3c2410 can do around 100mhz |
| 18:41.27 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: sorry 25mhz |
| 18:41.32 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: x4 |
| 18:41.43 | SpeedEvil | well - maybe you can, but just uncompressed. |
| 18:42.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: 4 bits with a 25mhz clock , which basically give 100mbps |
| 18:43.17 | SpeedEvil | Oh - sure, I just mean that at that speed you'll fill RAM in a few seconds. |
| 18:44.13 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:44.56 | aloril2 | loufoque: artists have been 'brainwashed': not all artist realize that they are not only producers, but also consumers; especially good artists are consumers (example Shakespeare): copyright makes this much harder than back then |
| 18:45.05 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i've been able to get a solid 54mbps connection with the 88w8385 , most of the time the actual transfer speed is about 48mbps |
| 18:45.38 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 18:46.18 | loufoque | aloril2: how does a book writer earns money without copyright? Anyone is free to sell books without giving any money to the author. |
| 18:46.18 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/M5900 |
| 18:46.39 | loufoque | aloril2: a solution would be to pay the author to write |
| 18:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 18:47.51 | loufoque | aloril2: that isn't such a bad idea, since you're paid for the work you do instead of being paid for how many samples are bought once the work is done. |
| 18:47.55 | prpplague | loufoque / aloril2 : i'm no sysop here, and i've wandered off-topic a number of times myself, but i wish you guys would carry your discussion somewhere else |
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| 18:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 18:54.02 | aloril2 | about patents: just look at current problems in finding GPL compatible WiFi chipsets: why are they hiding stuff if patent system is working? |
| 18:54.26 | aloril2 | (or GPUs) |
| 18:54.47 | Stephmw | because lawyers are paranoid |
| 18:55.02 | Stephmw | just because it's working *now* means it'll work tomorrow... |
| 18:55.05 | Stephmw | </sarcasm> |
| 18:56.38 | Elrond | Has anyone read the long paragraph at the end of this mail? http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-March/004269.html |
| 18:56.54 | Elrond | I hope the P1 phones aren't "for the shelf"... |
| 18:57.34 | buz | thats not what was originally promised, anyway |
| 18:57.47 | buz | and it would be really bad for the project |
| 18:58.46 | Stephmw | Elrond: unlikely for the Neo, but his assessment of engineering samples in general agrees with my experience |
| 18:58.54 | SpeedEvil | There is essentially no reason for it to. |
| 18:59.06 | SpeedEvil | Leaving stuff in the makefile is 'free'. |
| 18:59.11 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much at this level. |
| 18:59.12 | philippe | Elrond: He mainly means the P0 phones in that mail |
| 18:59.22 | buz | p0 phones are free |
| 18:59.34 | SpeedEvil | 'developers buying the engineering samples'... |
| 18:59.45 | SpeedEvil | should think of them as essentially |
| 18:59.45 | SpeedEvil | disposable with a shelf-life of 6 months. |
| 18:59.54 | buz | you simply shouldnt sell engineering samples |
| 19:00.02 | philippe | As I understood the P1 would be close to final HW. |
| 19:00.06 | alphaone | hi wansti |
| 19:00.12 | philippe | or be final HW |
| 19:00.14 | buz | thats what i was lead to believe to |
| 19:00.22 | buz | however, now it might be p1.5 that is close to final |
| 19:00.51 | loufoque | aloril2: so that people wouldn't see they're infringing patents |
| 19:00.52 | philippe | And P0 phones were indeed free or stuck at customs as is mine :-( |
| 19:01.04 | SpeedEvil | Still? |
| 19:01.46 | buz | only ms and possibly apple generally sell engineering samples |
| 19:01.56 | loufoque | do we know yet what P1+ will have as new hardware? |
| 19:02.09 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:02.10 | wansti | hi there |
| 19:02.13 | SpeedEvil | Not for certain. |
| 19:02.18 | wansti | hey alphaone |
| 19:02.28 | philippe | SpeedEvil: yep... :-( |
| 19:03.11 | philippe | with a bit of luck I might get it by september... |
| 19:03.44 | Stephmw | philippe: might want to go pick up your P1 device in person ;) |
| 19:03.58 | philippe | probably :-) |
| 19:04.40 | philippe | I just wish DHL would not be in between me and customs so I could actually figure out what the problem is. |
| 19:05.00 | *** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F22C.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:07.15 | guaqua | philippe: which country is this? |
| 19:08.47 | philippe | guaqua: Finland |
| 19:09.27 | philippe | Seems they absolutely want to tax me for a free engineering sample. |
| 19:09.34 | SpeedEvil | Nokia have people in customs, holding it up. |
| 19:09.51 | SpeedEvil | Well - worst case, pay the $70 |
| 19:09.56 | SpeedEvil | or whatever. |
| 19:10.16 | philippe | SpeedEvil: I would not mind too much, if they just could make up their mind. |
| 19:10.32 | guaqua | and you can't call the customs directly? |
| 19:10.38 | philippe | And everything has to pass through DHL so I have no clue what is going on. |
| 19:10.50 | SpeedEvil | I'd try calling customs direct. |
| 19:11.15 | philippe | guaqua: As DHL is in between I don't even know who is handling it, and they seem to keep the package at DHL. |
| 19:11.55 | philippe | so customs cannot help me. |
| 19:11.55 | guaqua | so no-one takes responsibility and nothing happens...gotta love the bureucracy |
| 19:11.58 | philippe | especially since I have no invoice as I did not have to pay for it... |
| 19:12.10 | Elrond | philippe - Just get to customs and tell them, that they have something from you, and you want it. |
| 19:12.26 | philippe | If they were not 300km away I would |
| 19:12.30 | guaqua | hmm |
| 19:12.47 | guaqua | where is it exactly located at? |
| 19:12.55 | Hadaka | hmmh, DHL has been rather helpful in resolving customs issues in my experience - but the customs office is a real pain in the butt |
| 19:12.56 | Elrond | philippe - No customs office near you? |
| 19:13.09 | Elrond | I'm in the middle of germany, and there's a customs office in my city. |
| 19:13.23 | philippe | Elrond: there is one here in Tampere. I could try to go there. |
| 19:13.41 | Hadaka | they just don't take "no invoice" for an answer - but the do accept any kind of pdf that hardly even resembles an invoice |
| 19:13.43 | guaqua | so it's being kept in helsinki, right? |
| 19:13.50 | Elrond | philippe - Just go there and keep sitting there until they help you. ;o) |
| 19:13.56 | philippe | guaqua: well at DHL Helsinki. |
| 19:14.44 | philippe | Next time I make them send it to Nokia. They have people who deal with this kind of thing. |
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| 19:15.36 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 19:15.44 | Hadaka | and I'm pretty certain I could also get the contact information for the customs person handling the issue from DHL |
| 19:16.23 | philippe | Hadaka: I bugged her today (well planned too) but she already left (and it was only 14h30) so I mailed. |
| 19:16.47 | guaqua | philippe: i have some free time on friday |
| 19:17.05 | Hadaka | philippe: well that's a bummer |
| 19:17.06 | guaqua | so if there is a physical need to go somewhere to sort things, i might be able to help |
| 19:17.40 | Hadaka | the DHL head office moved to vantaa though :/ |
| 19:18.01 | philippe | guaqua: kiitos |
| 19:19.41 | guaqua | their head place's location however... |
| 19:19.41 | Elrond | Will this end in a flame war, if I reply to this "buying engeneering samples" mail? |
| 19:19.52 | guaqua | it's somewhere in the middle of nowhere |
| 19:20.10 | Hadaka | guaqua: yeah, they were in meilahti, but moved to vantaa :( |
| 19:20.28 | guaqua | meilahti would've been really nice |
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| 19:21.47 | Hadaka | there's a tiny DHL office on aleksanterinkatu though and atleast when sitting there, somebody has to do something about the issues |
| 19:22.34 | SpeedEvil | Or call the police. |
| 19:22.59 | philippe | Hadaka: I'll see what DHL answers |
| 19:23.11 | philippe | if that does not help I'll bug customs |
| 19:23.14 | philippe | SpeedEvil: :-) |
| 19:23.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - instruction police? ;) |
| 19:23.48 | Elrond | Or is there some some "#OM police"? ;o) |
| 19:24.11 | *** join/#openmoko prom (n=prom@fuckup.club.berlin.ccc.de) |
| 19:24.22 | loufoque | the openmoko police is prpplague |
| 19:24.45 | guaqua | gotta go for a while now |
| 19:24.47 | guaqua | later more |
| 19:27.07 | *** part/#openmoko jonib1 (n=jonas@ua-83-227-144-18.cust.bredbandsbolaget.se) |
| 19:27.52 | prom | good day everyone. i just got a neo1973 from harald to play with. and so i thought id stick my noses in here, see whats going on. ;) |
| 19:27.58 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 19:28.09 | SpeedEvil | Not much. |
| 19:28.20 | SpeedEvil | Just debate on when P1 will ship. |
| 19:28.46 | loufoque | I wonder why isn't UMTS seriously considered |
| 19:28.57 | loufoque | is the hardware that expensive? |
| 19:29.37 | SpeedEvil | It's more expensive, and less global. |
| 19:32.39 | prom | actually, now that i have my neo (GTA01Bv2) opened up, i have a question too. does anyone know which of the wirewrapped patches does what? i had a problem getting through to the GSM module and one of the wires got clamped. |
| 19:32.39 | aloril | prom: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:33.37 | roh | prom i have the same patch here on mine... near some crystal and adding some smd-transistor? |
| 19:34.14 | loufoque | doesn't Japan not support GSM? |
| 19:35.02 | prom | roh: no, the transistor patch is fine. this one goes from between the three big inductors and the PCF50606 to $somewhere_below_the_display. |
| 19:35.12 | roh | uhm |
| 19:35.34 | roh | prom we should try if mine has the same problems |
| 19:36.13 | prom | roh: yapp. but harald allready mentioned that he got some more reports of GSM not working and suspects software issues. |
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| 19:51.58 | prpplague | TimRiker: re |
| 19:52.30 | rwhitby | morning all |
| 19:52.38 | prpplague | rwhitby: greetings |
| 19:52.57 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1363 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: |
| 19:52.57 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Add support for enabling/disabling fast charge |
| 19:52.57 | CIA-7 | openmoko: FIXME: if we disable fast charge, we should go back to trickle/pre charge! |
| 19:53.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1364 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): Add support for two USB configurations, one of which is 500mA and the other one is 100mA. Once the host issues SET_CONFIGURATION, the apropriate charging mode is selected |
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| 19:57.33 | SpeedEvil | Woo! |
| 19:57.58 | SpeedEvil | I suspect most peoples charging problems just got sorted. |
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| 20:02.39 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 20:08.38 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: I asked this before but missed your answer. How are you implementing additional hardware? USB dongle? Internal to the Neo? |
| 20:09.11 | woglinde | counter |
| 20:09.11 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 15:50:48 (17.660 +-7.0 days) (538) |
| 20:09.40 | DukeOfURL | On the ML we're discussing data over the GSM voice channel. Could you implement a 103-type modem in hardware? Software? |
| 20:17.36 | buz | Elrond: good post |
| 20:21.40 | MacNorth | rwhitby: OM svn HEAD doesn't have any bb files for openmoko-pim http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/?rev=1358 |
| 20:21.47 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-202-86.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 20:21.52 | MacNorth | patches can't be applied :) |
| 20:23.41 | rwhitby | MacNorth: mokomakefile head doesn't have any patches for openmoko-pim |
| 20:23.51 | rwhitby | you need to make update |
| 20:24.12 | MacNorth | i did: http://rafb.net/p/OCQLvb37.html |
| 20:27.38 | rwhitby | oh, you're still using the old rep. sorry. |
| 20:27.45 | rwhitby | mv patches patches.old |
| 20:27.49 | rwhitby | make update-makefile |
| 20:27.55 | rwhitby | make setup |
| 20:28.04 | MacNorth | i svn co'ed yesterday :( |
| 20:28.34 | rwhitby | I moved the mokomakefile repo to svn.nslu2-linux.org until projects.openmoko.org gets anon svn access fixed. |
| 20:28.45 | MacNorth | ah, gotcha |
| 20:30.05 | MacNorth | i'll revert the wiki edit |
| 20:35.42 | Elrond | buz - Thanks. I hope not to start another Mike-ish thread... |
| 20:37.21 | rwhitby | MokoMakefile unique IP downloads has hit 1107 |
| 20:39.11 | DukeOfURL | rwhitby: when we meet in person I'm going to buy you a beer. Or two. |
| 20:39.52 | rwhitby | DukeOfURL: Coopers Pale Ale please. Two. |
| 20:40.01 | DukeOfURL | k |
| 20:40.23 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 20:40.28 | DukeOfURL | I'm in Denver Colorado. |
| 20:43.10 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 20:43.27 | rwhitby | Next time my US flights take me via Denver, I'll take you up on that :-) |
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| 20:51.49 | MacNorth | coopers pale?! little creatures, thanks |
| 20:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 20:53.36 | Fletch | mobile.de |
| 20:55.30 | DukeOfURL | MacNorth: where in Denver? |
| 20:55.42 | MacNorth | near the hospitals on 20th |
| 20:58.20 | loufoque | rwhitby: 1001, you forgot me |
| 20:59.06 | rwhitby | loufoque: no, you evened out the people who's IP address changes. |
| 21:00.47 | Elrond | rwhitby - You didn't include the slashdort fudge factor in your unique ip calc. ;o)) |
| 21:01.19 | rwhitby | Elrond: what's that factor? I wasn't aware that MokoMakefile had been slashdotted. |
| 21:02.13 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL [[expansion back]] |
| 21:02.41 | Elrond | rwhitby - Well, if MM was slashdotted, the factor would be lots different. But you can assume, that some people just download MM, try it, don't understnad anything and throw it away again. ;o) |
| 21:03.01 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: there are several ways - USB, I2C - which in P1 will require solder, or passive means like reading the vibrator motor driver for output only. |
| 21:03.50 | rwhitby | Elrond: right, and as the email said, that balances out the developers who don't use MokoMakefile at all. |
| 21:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 21:05.11 | rwhitby | (i.e. there is no *real* way to measure this, so you pull some real figures from somewhere (MokoMakefile downloads), wave your hands around a bit, then call it a milestone) Please don't bring actual correctness of figures into a marketing stunt :-) |
| 21:05.16 | balrog-kun | has anything openmoko-related been slashdotted in the end? |
| 21:05.32 | balrog-kun | i haven't noticed anything |
| 21:05.33 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:05.57 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: no, it's been unusually un-noticed by slashdot. |
| 21:06.02 | Elrond | balrog-kun - The wiki was slashdotted. |
| 21:06.13 | SpeedEvil | When? |
| 21:06.20 | SpeedEvil | Oh - you mean right at the start. |
| 21:06.22 | Elrond | Very close after being opened. |
| 21:06.27 | balrog-kun | ah ok |
| 21:06.28 | rwhitby | I don't believe that was slashdotted - that was just mailing listed. |
| 21:06.47 | balrog-kun | rwhitby: good, slashdotting will be quite good at some point |
| 21:06.49 | Elrond | slashdotted in the wider sense. ;o) |
| 21:06.51 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 21:07.10 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if the OM website can cope with a full /. |
| 21:07.24 | *** part/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
| 21:07.30 | SpeedEvil | Or if a 'reduced bandwidth' static copy would be a good idea. |
| 21:09.55 | DukeOfURL | MokoMakefile: NOTE: Task failed: /home/mike/moko/build/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/db3-native-3.2.9-r2/temp/log.do_compile.28384 |
| 21:10.02 | DukeOfURL | ? |
| 21:10.33 | rwhitby | DukeOfURL: pastebin please (including the do_compile logfile referenced) |
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| 21:21.24 | DukeOfURL | rwhitby: http://pastebin.com/899063 |
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| 21:27.18 | spikebik1 | counter |
| 21:27.18 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 14:32:41 (17.606 +-7.0 days) (539) |
| 21:28.05 | rwhitby | DukeOfURL: pastebin.ca (or one of the others) is much faster than pastebin.com |
| 21:30.20 | MacNorth | ffs why is wget wonky? |
| 21:30.50 | rwhitby | DukeOfURL: I think that's a known problem on 64 bit in OE - can you ask in #oe? |
| 21:32.21 | DukeOfURL | k |
| 21:32.21 | DukeOfURL | thx |
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| 22:01.29 | MacNorth | yosh got wget working again -- actiontec router dproxy bug |
| 22:01.35 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: does sean ever show up here? |
| 22:02.48 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 22:03.14 | SpeedEvil | A couple of the core dev team do. |
| 22:03.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh ok |
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| 22:05.07 | buz | if i was him, i would only show up incongnito |
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| 22:09.33 | Elrond | I saw Sean exactly once in here. |
| 22:09.49 | Elrond | Sean incognito? I doubt it. |
| 22:09.56 | Elrond | (wishful thinking?) |
| 22:15.34 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 22:22.43 | buz | just think what would happen if he came here. everyone would ask what service to get. after all we need an official answer |
| 22:22.54 | SpeedEvil | Fan service! |
| 22:22.56 | SpeedEvil | (sorry). |
| 22:23.07 | Stephmw | Adult service! |
| 22:23.10 | buz | oh and of course |
| 22:23.15 | buz | Wifi? |
| 22:23.16 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some model later this year probably will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 22:23.35 | buz | V12 |
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| 22:35.59 | Elrond | no mail on community@ for an hour? |
| 22:38.36 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-144.media.mit.edu) |
| 22:39.47 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-144.media.mit.edu) |
| 22:40.59 | Elrond | Stephmw - We had that discussion already here. I'm not going to cite any details, but the ideas included things with BT. ;o) |
| 22:41.31 | Stephmw | teledildonics... yes, I read TheRegister too ;) |
| 22:42.04 | Elrond | I haven't read "TheRegister". |
| 22:42.24 | Elrond | Did I miss anything? |
| 22:43.09 | Stephmw | not recently afair |
| 22:43.23 | Stephmw | Elrond: theregister.co.uk - tech news |
| 22:43.49 | Elrond | Yeah, I know it. But just don't read it very often. |
| 22:43.53 | Stephmw | ah |
| 22:44.02 | Stephmw | I just use the rss feed |
| 22:45.47 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56) |
| 22:46.01 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Does Fan service include Sean signed phones? ;o) |
| 22:47.22 | Stephmw | Elrond: maybe they'll give them the Vertu treatment |
| 22:47.56 | Elrond | Vertu? |
| 22:48.34 | Stephmw | http://www.vertu.com/homepage.jsp?lang=en |
| 22:49.32 | Stephmw | http://www.mobiledia.com/reviews/vertu/signature-2006/page1.html |
| 22:49.40 | Stephmw | ... we're not at all the target market segment :) |
| 22:51.20 | Elrond | tihi ;) |
| 22:51.43 | Stephmw | "$60K for the platinum (with solitaire diamond), Vertus are not for the faint of heart, or wallet." |
| 22:52.22 | SpeedEvil | Why not? |
| 22:52.45 | SpeedEvil | You think the rich don't deserve decent phones too? :) |
| 22:53.19 | Elrond | *G* |
| 22:53.19 | Stephmw | that's the thing... these are basic phones :) |
| 22:53.35 | SpeedEvil | An actual well-done phone - good SAW diamond faced touchscreen, ... |
| 22:53.49 | Elrond | You mean, the Neo is "better"? ;o) |
| 22:54.09 | SpeedEvil | No - I mean a neo with an upgraded display and case. |
| 22:54.13 | Stephmw | :D |
| 23:06.50 | Elrond | *G |
| 23:06.52 | Elrond | * |
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| 23:46.22 | don-o | counter |
| 23:46.22 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 3 days 12:13:37 (17.509 +-7.0 days) (540) |
| 23:46.52 | *** part/#openmoko don-o (n=donp@206.163.122.98) |
| 23:54.02 | MacNorth | counter-- |
