irclog2html for #openmoko on 20070313

00:00.45ElrondSpeedEvil - Huh (looking at your power button pic): There are white/blue Neos out there?!
00:01.09SpeedEvilAlas, no.
00:01.20SpeedEvilI just noticed the hue wheel on xv.
00:01.47aevini tried to build openmoko-devel-image yesterday night (while i was sleeping), but found out this morning that it failed because my disk (partition) was full.
00:02.02ElrondSpeedEvil - *lol*
00:02.20ElrondSpeedEvil - So did I win a free neo for spotting it first? ;)
00:02.46SpeedEvilI was trying to get it to go to dark red like the other button pic, but it doesn't do that.
00:02.55SpeedEvilOnly bright red.
00:04.49ElrondThat's trickier. :)
00:04.49ElrondBut I'm too tired to do that now.
00:04.51*** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net)
00:09.48grgeSpeedEvil, do you own a neo yet?
00:10.40grge(out of curiosity, and no desire to burglarise you :)
00:11.00SpeedEvilOnly in spirit.
00:11.20SpeedEvilAnd I _may_ have my cheese-neo somewhere.
00:11.24SpeedEvilI can't remember if I ate it.
00:11.32Elrond*lol*
00:11.44SpeedEvil(size mockup, carved from cheddar)
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00:12.16grgecheddar... it's probably sat moulding in the back of the fridge ;)
00:12.21ElrondI should have known, that *you* were the guy doing the cheese mockup. :-)
00:12.43grgeyou should have used brie
00:12.56ElrondAnyway. Good night people. I have to get up early tomorrow.
00:12.59SpeedEvilActually - the one I get isn't bad.
00:13.01SpeedEvilNight.
00:17.03DukeOfURLWhen we plug into a PC port, will the PC see the Neo's file system (like a thumb drive)?
00:17.48SuNI've been wondering how Motorola implemented that, and if it's a Linux feature by default.
00:19.14SpeedEvilAs I understand it, no.
00:19.47SpeedEvilAt least not with current software, I don't know if hardware can pretend to be arbitrary stuff.
00:19.49DukeOfURLIs it just an IP connection, then?
00:19.55SpeedEvilNo.
00:20.00SpeedEvilMass storage is not IP
00:20.06SpeedEvilIt's sort of fake SCSI
00:20.26SpeedEvilThere are actual hardware chips to do it.
00:20.35DukeOfURLThat's what I mean "like a thumb drive".  Like when I plug my camera into a PC.
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00:20.43SpeedEvilIt tends to be in hardware if it supports USB2 at good speeds in that mode.
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00:40.04DukeOfURLIf we're able to open a ssh session on the Neo from a PC, what then is the interface?
00:40.45CoreDump|homeusb0 usually
00:41.10DukeOfURLppp?
00:41.59CoreDump|homenah ethernet over usb (usbnet)
00:42.19CoreDump|homecdc_ether
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00:45.49DukeOfURLthx
00:46.43DukeOfURLheh, most people on this list don't know what core memory is...
00:47.09DukeOfURLsense amps that have to be fine tuned...
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01:07.21DukeOfURLSpeedEvil:  nice pictures.
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01:19.04SpeedEvilCrops of others, rather than my own alas.
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01:34.29gabaugrwhitby: svn.nslu2-linux.org is down?
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02:07.50rwhitbygabaug: seems up to me
02:08.10gabaugrwhitby: yeah, working now...wasn't for > 20 min there
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02:12.27CIA-7openmoko: 03jiang_li * r1332 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-simplemediaplayer/beep/ (mainwin.c mainwin.h playlist.c): add playlist function to the simple music player(all songs locate at /music folder, all m3u files locate at /Musics folder)
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02:37.07peepsalotI know the neo does not have an FPU, but can it be emulated?  I haven't ever developed for a device like this before
02:37.41peepsaloti mean, if i write a program that uses floats or doubles, can it compile for and run on this hardware?
02:43.52alphaonepeepsalot: The kernel and glibc take care of that for you
02:44.38alphaoneIt just means that floating operations are slower that integer operations.
02:44.54peepsalotok, how slow are we talking?
02:45.03Agrajag-57!
02:45.34peepsalot57 factorial? :p
02:45.46Agrajag-uhh.. yes if you want :)
02:46.10alphaonepeepsalot: I'm not sure.
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03:17.30peepsalotis it very rare to find a mobile device with pixel aspect ratio != 1:1?
03:17.59peepsalotlooks like the neo is 1:1
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04:21.27CIA-7openmoko: 03werner * r1333 10/developers/werner/TODO: Some updates to keep my readers amused.
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05:58.10CIA-7openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1334 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (28 files in 2 dirs): dynamic status displaying support.
06:04.56CIA-7openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1335 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/openmoko-dialer-window-incoming.c: incoming_0.png
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06:06.43CIA-7openmoko: 03werner * r1336 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/ (envedit.pl environment.in setup.sh): (log message trimmed)
06:06.43CIA-7openmoko: envedit.pl (readenv): make it an error to load an environment smaller than 6
06:06.43CIA-7openmoko:  bytes
06:06.44CIA-7openmoko: setup.sh: use partition names for dfu-util
06:06.44CIA-7openmoko: environment.in: added "Boot from microSD" menu option (untested)
06:06.45CIA-7openmoko: environment.in: added "regular_boot" to bootargs_base
06:06.49CIA-7openmoko: setup.sh: just do a "reset halt" after the DFU upload, no complicated and buggy
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06:11.42kmeyerr1337 you can feel it coming
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06:42.05xkr47kmeyer, :D
06:42.16kmeyer:)
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07:08.56CM_Hehe
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07:21.36Lavarhello?
07:21.36alorilLavar: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
07:22.49Lavaranyone here?
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07:32.01CMAlmost a month old, but I never saw it: http://www.linuxworld.com/news/2007/021407-podcast-n2.html
07:33.20alorilinpatient ...
07:33.32alorilat least got FAQ reply ;-)
07:33.46CMHehe.. Quite. Hopefully he waits for P2 ;)
07:34.12CIA-7openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1337 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/data/ (Makefile.am openmoko-dialer.desktop): desktop file
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07:38.29sirkha_topGads! this is what i have been looking for for YEARS, why did I just find it now?
07:38.30alorilsirkha_top: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
07:40.21alorilthis autoreply is funny sometimes ;-)
07:40.32sirkha_topi was thinking that
07:40.42sirkha_topthis may be my excuse to finally learn GTK
07:40.47CM:)
07:40.51sirkha_top(i've been avoiding it)
07:42.30alorilsurprisingly often though its correct, but still lately most people probably have already read FAQ
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07:47.38CMaloril: Maybe you should change it to say "Man, can't believe you don't know that!?" ;)
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07:50.33rob__whow do i stop at the bootloader menu ? pressing AUX again ??
07:50.47rwhitbyhold in aux while power on
07:50.52sirkha_tophmm, here is one that i can't seem to figure out: is the sd card slot accessible from the outside?
07:51.01rwhitbyno
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07:51.37sirkha_topthats unfortunate but not a deal killer (since i have to open the battery cover on my current phone anyways) i am sure there are reasons
07:51.51rob__wah i right the screenshots show that i need to use AUX to choose and power to select
07:53.01alorilCM: hehe
07:54.06rob__wshit , i was to slow ,, and now its back to its rebooting state ..
07:54.56rob__wrwhitby, do you see a chance when getting to uboot to recover this "keeps rebooting problem " ?  do you think the images is wrecked
07:55.18rob__wthe reboot happens quite early , right after the first splash screen
07:55.27rwhitbythe keeps rebooting is due to low battery charge
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07:55.37rob__woh
07:55.49rwhitbyrob__w: hit the power button once
07:56.02rwhitbythen get into the bootloader console via ttyACM0
07:56.11rwhitbythen type "neo1973 charger fast"
07:56.26alorilah, yet I need to add yet another link to FAQ: to disassembly page
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07:57.52rob__wso now ive battery and usb connected .. it is not rebooting but stays off ..
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08:00.03alorilhmm.. is "keeps rebooting problem "  addressed somewhere in wiki?
08:00.06rwhitbyrob__w: leave it off for a number of minutes for it to get some charge up
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08:00.42aloril(including "leave it off for a number of minutes for it to get some charge up", etc.. hints?)
08:00.55rob__wok will keep it charging ,, i need to run to a meeting ,, so now it can charge some hours
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08:01.15alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Phase_0 probably should have this info?
08:01.21rwhitbyrob__w: then be ready to get into the bootloader console via ttyACM0, and ready to paste in "neo1973 charger fast" before it uses up all the charge it saved up and reboots again
08:01.44rob__wuh sounds fast ..
08:02.06rob__wis there no chance that it charges up while turned off to full capacity ?
08:02.32rwhitbyhooray!  I finally have eth0, ath0 (wireless), usb0 (neo) all bridged on an Iomega NAS100d, so I can wifi connect to the neo via the nas100d.
08:02.45rob__wrwhitby, nice
08:02.48rwhitbyrob__w: it probably does, but this way you can get into it *now* :-)
08:02.57alorilprobably better somebody with device edit it so that info is correct (though I guess I could try to add some info there and let P0 owners fix it?)
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08:03.18rwhitbyaloril: the latter will be the quickest way to get it in there ;-)
08:03.27rob__wi see , will the charger fast command be saved so uboot always does this ?
08:03.33rwhitbyrob__w: no
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08:04.38rob__wrwhitby, so the rule is have it connected to usb amap
08:06.07rwhitbyso I can connect to the neo via wifi->usbnet and the neo can connect to the internet via usbnet->eth to router.
08:06.42rob__wrwhitby, ipkg update ;-)
08:06.54rwhitbyDownloading http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/ipk/armv4t/Packages.gz
08:06.59rwhitbyalready done that lots
08:07.14rob__whehe great
08:08.38rwhitbyok, now that all works, the next job is to get the nas100d able to update the firmware on the neo ...
08:08.46rob__wwhy is it that openmoko-dialer is not ready to handle the gsm direclty ?
08:09.23rwhitby(basically, this is all in preparation for a linux user group meeting I have in a week.  I bring in the neo connected to the nas100d, plug in the nas100d, and anyone in the room can wifi into the neo and have a look around.
08:11.32rwhitbyrob__w: probably just simply time
08:12.02rob__wgood , thats good reason , i was scared there is a more difficult issue
08:13.57rob__wso if i leave it at the charger for some hourse , might it boot up just normally ( reach the kernel charger fast command¸s ) ?
08:14.17rwhitbyrob__w: should do
08:14.46rob__wroger
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08:14.53rob__wthanks
08:17.00alorilrwhitby: is this "press power button" with stock P0 u-boot or after updating to latest u-boot?
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08:17.24rwhitbyaloril: mine is stock u-boot
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08:18.04rwhitby(I haven't updated anything yet, until I get a stable development/test rig so I can reproduce things easily)
08:18.08alorilis there yet solution to this problem?
08:18.54aloril(well seems that #212 has link to partial solution)
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08:23.13rob__wrwhitby, so are you paid by FIC ?
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08:23.48TRIsoftmorning
08:23.57rwhitbyrob__w: no
08:24.09alorilrwhitby: first version: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Phase_0#Reboot_cycle
08:24.15rob__wyou feel to be a major dude here
08:24.42rwhitbyrob__w: I run nslu2-linux.org, so I have some experience in helping a community grow
08:25.57kmeyerwhat's nslu2-linux.org?
08:26.39xkr47kmeyer, well open the url :)
08:26.42rob__w#212 is really long
08:27.04kmeyerway too lazy :)
08:27.18kmeyer<PROTECTED>
08:27.40rwhitbykmeyer: I have a policy that I don't tell people anything they can easily find out for themselves :-)
08:27.53kmeyermakes enough sense
08:28.03rwhitbycause if you do, they start asking things like "what's nslu2-linux.org?" ;-)
08:28.23kmeyer:)
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08:30.03rwhitby(nslu2-linux has over 10,000 subscribers on it's mailing lists, and has had over 50,000 firmware downloads in the last two years.  Also has raised almost USD$10K in donations in that time, all spent back on the project hardware infrastructure)
08:30.26rob__wwhy is the charger chip not generally trying the fast charge ?  this then would enable the device even with not bat connected
08:30.36hrwmorning
08:30.51hrwrob__w: not all usb devices can give 500mA for full charge
08:30.52rob__whey hrw
08:30.52rwhitbyhi hrw - any joy with gsm on your p0?
08:31.12rob__whrw, but the charger chip should try to get the most of all ..
08:31.26hrwrwhitby: it is still DEAD
08:31.33rwhitbyhrw: :-(
08:31.37hrw~lart neo1973 charging system
08:31.52xkr47:D
08:31.59rob__w~massacre usb chargers which dont charge in first place
08:32.02aptACTION sets seeds of discontent and difference among the usb chargers which dont charge in first place; years later two factions have formed; history will take its course
08:32.02hrwI'm more and more thinking about buying nokia dt14 or any nokia bl-5c phone
08:32.27hrwthis would allow me to atleast CHARGE batteries
08:32.35alorilhrw: tried second work around yet: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Phase_0#Reboot_cycle
08:32.51hrwaloril: to get into this you need some juice in battery....
08:33.01rob__wi demand a dummy charger routine  which trys to fast charge at any time the device is off
08:33.06hrwaloril: if battery goes to 0 then neo is unable to charge it
08:33.26rob__walso i demand the usb connection if connected to a 500mA hub to power the device
08:33.36alorilhrw: ah, OK, then .. hmm where is that link to image of using another phone to charge it ..
08:33.55hrwaloril: ha ha ha.
08:34.24hrwaloril: I saw that and do not plan to combine how to destroy battery with some unknown voltage from other device
08:35.04rob__wNokia BL5C looks like a battery not a charger
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08:35.25alorilrob__w: yes, but it works in Neo1973
08:35.37hrwrob__w: "any nokia bl-5c phone" == any Nokia phone which use bl-5c
08:36.01rob__wgot it
08:36.16rob__wthose arent too expensive ,, around 8€ ..
08:36.17alorilhrw: Neo1973 batter might not fit to nokia phone though :-(
08:36.26sureshkumarHi all, can anyone help me in using the kannel wap gateway? I am unable to understand on how to use it. Kindly help me in this regard, by providing some information
08:36.46rob__ware there high cap BL5C by any chances ?
08:37.00hrwnokia 770 boot with neo battery
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08:37.42alorilhrw: can you tell me (or edit http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Phase_0 ) if you resolve your issue?
08:37.48hrwnearly dead battery...
08:38.50alorilsureshkumar: what are you doing?
08:39.08rob__wso i am also in the rebooting loop currently ,, i wil lleave it plugged some hours and then see if it comes back
08:39.40rob__wwe need matchbox-battery-applet to visualize the charger type`s
08:39.52alorilrob__w: don't leave too long on it, otherwise it might drain too much (I assume this is what happened with hrw's batter, is it so?)
08:40.07sureshkumaraloril: I didn't understand on what are you asking
08:40.22rob__waloril, it is off currently the power is attached
08:40.30rob__waloril, i  did this before
08:41.01alorilsureshkumar: why are you asking your questions? why do you need to understand wap/sms/etc..?
08:41.21sureshkumaraloril: I am trying to use kannel wap gateway by using the sample wapkannel.conf
08:41.26alorilrob__w: cool, np then
08:41.50alorilsureshkumar: why are you trying to use kannel wap gateway?
08:42.13sureshkumarTo test wap functionality over SMS
08:42.37alorilwhy do you want "To test wap functionality over SMS" ?
08:42.56sureshkumarJust setting this gateway, so that I can test my middle ware / applications
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08:44.07xkr47wap over sms sounds like 1999 once again
08:44.17xkr47:P
08:44.19alorilwhat "middle ware / applications" ?
08:44.40kmeyerwap over sms?
08:45.05xkr47yeah.. use sms instead of pigeons as transport
08:45.13xkr47^^
08:45.31kmeyeris that... workable?
08:45.35kmeyerif sms are free?
08:46.09xkr47well it depends on sms vs gsm modem pricing and surfing habits I guess
08:47.02hrwI know that making WAP pages suxx
08:47.16hrw1.5KB limit per deck suxx
08:47.39tigert_and most phones have a real browser anyway
08:49.00xkr47hrw, yeah :P
08:49.49xkr47tigert, sure.. but for some wap over sms might still be feasible
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08:54.20tigertyeah
08:54.34tigertwe tend to overestimate the amount of technology
08:54.41tigertwhen living in hitech
08:54.47CIA-7openmoko: 03laforge * r1338 10/trunk/src/target/agpsd/: create empty dir
08:54.55CIA-7openmoko: 03laforge * r1339 10/trunk/src/target/agpsd/patches/: create empty dir
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09:05.48hrwhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/419825351/ - how to check does neo battery has any juice left
09:06.46XorAhrw: you hacker you
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09:21.50hrwhttp://www.flickr.com/photos/hrwandil/419831297/
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09:24.27XorACoreDump|afk: select the right option from boot menu?
09:26.48CoreDump|afkXorA: no luck
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09:36.59alorilhow should this question read? "Q: Is it completely free software?" (not yet in FAQ, but adding it)
09:37.09aloril? "Q: Is it completely FLOSS?"
09:37.26alorilfree software/open source?
09:39.00CoreDump|afkmehhhh
09:39.13CoreDump|afk< >   USB Debugging Device
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09:39.19CoreDump|afk!slap me
09:39.50mjraloril, I think your original formulation was good
09:39.54mjr"free software"
09:42.41vmasterCoreDump|afk: did you load ftdi_sio with the correct VID/PID?
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09:43.49CoreDump|afkummm
09:43.59alorilmjr: ah, well used last one already (addresses those people that know open source but not free software too)
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09:44.33mjr*shrug*
09:44.41mjrI'm not gonna hunt down and kill you
09:44.47XorAbtw in the packaging where were peoples picks? I havent found one yet
09:45.15mjrstill, does knowing open source equate to knowing that ETLA? I dunno...
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09:45.52mjrah, free software/open source
09:45.55mjrthat's okay
09:46.38CoreDump|afkvmaster: that was indeed my problem :\ Thanks
09:47.58alorilrwhitby: thanks
09:48.05vmasterCoreDump|afk: i ran into the same problem with several of my FT2232 based USB-JTAGs as well - each vendor using his own vid/pid, and the driver ignoring it by default
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09:50.56hrwftdi_sio is available in kernel or extra?
09:53.11vmasterit's in the kernel
09:53.28vmasterhas been for quite a while - all the FT232, FT245 and FT2232 devices uses it
09:53.32vmasters/uses/use/
09:54.08vmasterbut of course it only attaches to devices with FTDI's default vid and pid
09:57.00rwhitbyhrw: but you have to give vendor and product settings in /etc/modprobe.conf for it
09:57.34rwhitbyoptions ftdi_sio vendor=0x1457 product=0x5118
09:58.15hrwthx
09:58.36rwhitbynp
09:59.35rwhitbyCoreDump|afk: see the uboot menu item checkin for boot from sd card?  no need for altboot now, hey?
10:00.44alorilhmm.. [[Neo1973]] needs rewrite, I'll do that later (with links to various announcements and mail(s) to back up claims)
10:02.38SpeedEvilWikipedia has a few inaccuracies on that page too. /me edits.
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10:04.50CoreDump|afkrwhitby: actually I don't see that entry. Did you flash a newer u-boot env by chance?
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10:09.58floriangood morning
10:10.53CoreDump|afkmorning florian
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10:12.31hrwrmmod ftdi_sio == oops ;(
10:13.01hrwsome parts of usb system died after that
10:15.50vmasterhrw: works fine here: Linux magrathea 2.6.18.1 #1 PREEMPT Sat Oct 28 21:26:50 CEST 2006 i686 GNU/Linux
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10:16.42alorilhrw: so did that Nokia770 trick save your Neo1973 battery?
10:18.47hrwaloril: no. n770 refuse to charge unknown batteries
10:18.56hrwvmaster: 2.6.21-rc3 here
10:22.06xkr47usb ab
10:23.13hrwxkr47: a->a extender cable
10:23.21xkr47I know :)
10:24.12SpeedEvilhrw: do you own a multimeter? If so - strip a USB cable, and seperate out the red and black wires. 5V should be measured across these +-0.5V. Putting a kettle in series with one of the wires, and connecting to the batteries will safely charge it. (a kettle has a resistance of around 20 ohms) Check this first - if it's under 5 ohms don't use. Then connect to + and - of battery. Monitor voltage of battery as it rises. If it gets over 4.2V, it may
10:24.20hrwno way.. usb system in kernel died
10:24.31SpeedEvilging should take several hours
10:24.56SpeedEvilThe battery will also die if you get it round the wrong way - monitor the voltage and see if it starts to drop.
10:25.15xkr47hrw, :O
10:25.29alorilSpeedEvil: cut after "If it gets over 4.2V, it ma"
10:25.39hrwSpeedEvil: or I will go and buy cheapest bl-5c already-charged battery
10:26.08aloril(447 characters seems to be limit)
10:26.53xkr47SpeedEvil, if you use irssi, install splitlong.pl script :)
10:29.21SpeedEvilmay explode
10:29.47SpeedEvilfor a dead battery at 3V ish, charging should take several hours
10:33.36hrwbrb - reboot to get usb working again
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10:40.00hrwError:   jtag.c:1181 jtag_examine_chain(): JTAG communication failure, check connection, JTAG interface, target power etc.
10:40.04hrw;(
10:40.14vmasteris the target powered?
10:40.59hrwvmaster: hard to tell. neo need lot of power to give sign of being powered
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10:48.29hrwaccording to my multimeter battery has 3.38V
10:50.02vmasterdid you try pressing the power button?
10:51.12vmasterand holding AUX down?
10:52.59hrwyes
10:53.02hrwa lot of times
10:54.17vmasteris ftdi_sio currently loaded with the debug board's vid/pid?
10:54.53hrwthis time no
10:55.32hrwmodprobing..
10:55.53vmasteruhm, no, i kind of hoped that ftdi_sio prevented the OpenOCD from grabbing the interface
10:56.02vmasterbut if you didn't have it loaded, that isn't the problem
10:57.14vmasteranyone know against which version of u-boot the neo1973 patches have to be applied? top of git?
10:57.46hrw1.1.2 or 1.1.4 i suspect
10:57.58hrw~curse ftdi_sio for oopsing
10:58.08aptMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, ftdi_sio for oopsing !
10:58.41hrwhttp://pastebin.ca/393191
10:59.18hrwand usb DIED.
10:59.21hrwfscking crap
10:59.29hrwARGHHHSFSDFS#@$@#^$@^@(^&@(*^$@&
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10:59.54hrwI will buy nokia phone
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11:00.22hrwsomething cheap, crappy and working
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11:08.51_buztry january
11:09.02_buzSCNR
11:11.58SpeedEvilWell - yes.
11:12.28SpeedEvilAlso - was there _actually_ a '25th' announcement, or was it 'Late March?'
11:13.04rwhitbyCoreDump|afk: it was just a checkin by werner that I saw noting a menu entry to boot from SD
11:13.08SpeedEvilI don't remember anything semi-official with anything other than 'late'.
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11:14.36SpeedEvilI suspect that's what's going to happen.
11:14.48_buzit would probablynot have speed up things very much
11:14.59_buzi wonder if p1 will be skippped in favor of p1.5 in the end
11:15.12SpeedEvilHowever.
11:15.33SpeedEvilYou can save a potentially moderate amount of money by ordering components and 1000 PCBs.
11:15.41SpeedEvilYou populate 50 PCBs and ship.
11:15.54SpeedEvilIf it all works, you assemble and ship the next 950
11:16.16SpeedEvilAs a new PCB is much cheaper than a PCB + stuff.
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11:17.58alorilGTA01Bv4 is actually already available, so they have almost month to test it internally
11:18.51SpeedEvilTrue.
11:19.15alorilSpeedEvil: hmm.. I don't see around 2007-03-25 anywhere either, unless it has been in FOSDEM talk?
11:19.27SpeedEvilI think that was 'late march'.
11:19.37rwhitbydo we know it's available?  I thought it was only designed, and they need 4 to 6 weeks for manufacture.
11:19.49SpeedEvil25th was just picked I think as it's a compromise between late march and end of march.
11:20.08SpeedEvil6 weeks quoted was for the LCM order time.
11:20.41SpeedEvilPCBs take under a week to make, and if you've got all the bits, and a assembly plant, then you can get samples _easily_ in a couple of weeks.
11:21.00SpeedEvilFor a rush, under a week is easily possible - for the first 10 ynits.
11:21.11aloril(video, PDF does not have that date either (late march too))
11:22.08alorilrwhitby: latest info is "We have finalized the next revision called GTA01Bv4, which we expect to be available in sample quantities roughly at the end of the month. Let's hope this time we got everything right and can immediately proceed to producing larger quantities."
11:22.11SpeedEvilIf the core team does not have a tame PCB designer, that could add more time.
11:22.29aloril2007-03-06: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-March/000006.html
11:22.46rwhitbyaloril: nod.  I stand corrected.
11:23.48SpeedEvilFinalised the next revision may not mean 'I have one in my hand'
11:24.12SpeedEvilIt may well mean 'we've got the circuit diagram changes, and sent them to the PCB layout person'
11:24.22alorilyeah
11:24.59SpeedEvilHowever, if it all dropped right, I could see hardware arriving about now.
11:25.16alorilalso they need some time for software too, I think they don't want to cell phone with only [[Manually_using_GSM]] ;-)
11:25.34alorils/cell/sell/
11:25.50SpeedEvilWe _really_ don't want 'power users' ordering phones and being utterly unable to do anything.
11:26.23hrwaloril: if at all - #256
11:27.01alorilhrw: yeah, no doubt they will have some way to test that things like that work before shipping
11:28.19alorilsample quantities might mean "first N pre-orders get it, lets wait a bit to see its all OK, then open it up for rest"
11:28.34SpeedEvilOr it might mean all P0 devs
11:28.37aloril(just guess of course)
11:28.50alorilah, yeah, true, more likely that way
11:29.08SpeedEvilOr it might mean all P0 devs who have done anything with the phone.
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11:35.41vmasterrwhitby: heh, looking at the battery problems i'd guess you p0 guys didn't have much of chance yet
11:36.10SpeedEvilIMO, I have the feeling that I could do much more than many of the P0 devs.
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11:36.28SpeedEvilI am unfortuantely realistic enought ot realise that I probably wouldn't.
11:36.50SpeedEvilI know battery problems woudln't bother me though.
11:37.08vmasterhehehe
11:37.13rwhitbyvmaster: I haven't had any real problem with the battery.  I changed mine to not autoboot into Linux, and left it that way overnight and it was in a reboot loop in the morning.  It was an easy fix, and now I know not to leave it in u-boot until the battery runs down.
11:37.38koen|galinhas_rwhitby: the southern hemisphere rocks!
11:37.55rwhitbykoen|galinhas_: always has ;-)
11:38.32rwhitbyhave you learnt yet how to lean the other way so you don't fall off the earth?
11:39.06vmasteralways wondered how you're doing that... i mean, isn't that quite some headache after a few years of standing upside-down?
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11:39.34rwhitbydamn.  I can't install openocd on the nas100d, cause it's wanting to install some libgcc-s1 package which seems to be conflicting with the real ligcc1 ...
11:40.42rwhitbys/ligcc1/libgcc1/ of course
11:41.22koen|galinhas__rwhitby: gcc/gcc-cross packaging is a bit broken
11:41.32koen|galinhas__rwhitby: I am in the process of unbreaking it
11:41.51rwhitbykoen|galinhas: excellent.  I'll go to bed now and try again tomorrow then :-)
11:42.00koen|galinhasmake that next week :)
11:42.08koen|galinhasthe beach is a bit too nice here :)
11:42.33rwhitbyI doubt your pride will allow you to leave it broken that long, beach or not.
11:42.55alorilSpeedEvil: did you apply for P0?
11:44.57koen|galinhas-force-overwrite
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11:52.17rwhitbykoen|galinhas: I don't think I want to install libgcc-s1 - I've never seen that package naming before.
11:52.30rwhitby(hence I left libgcc1 there)
11:52.44koen|galinhasrwhitby: gcc-cross renames libgcc_s to libgcc :(
11:52.59koen|galinhasI don't know why
11:53.44rwhitbyvmaster: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenOCD#OpenOCD_and_Debug_Board says use openocd svn rev 130.  If I use svn latest, would that cause "Command ft2232_vid_pid not found" and "Command ft2232_layout not found" ?
11:54.14vmasteruhm, no
11:54.17rwhitby(I'm trying to run openocd built for ixp4xxle, running on an iomega nas100d, to talk via the debug board to the neo.
11:54.32rwhitbyIt reports "Open On-Chip Debugger (2007-01-31 12:00 CET)"
11:54.35vmasterthe only difference between r130 and r131 is a fix in the libftdi support
11:54.45vmasteryeah, i notoriously forget to update that version string... :(
11:55.16vmasterdid that build enable support for the ft2232?
11:55.20vmasterit's conditionally compiled
11:55.51rwhitbyaha: EXTRA_OECONF = "  --disable-ftdi2232 --disable-ftd2xx" in stock OE
11:56.14vmasterthat's from > 1/2 year ago
11:56.46vmasteruse "--enable-ft2232_libftdi"
11:56.51rwhitbyhmm - the openocd-native_svn.bb has EXTRA_OECONF = "--enable-ft2232_libftdi --enable-parport-ppdev"
11:57.07rwhitbybut for some reason the non-native recipe is bogus.
11:57.27vmasterrwhitby: the non-native was intended to be used on the Cirrus E93xx with bit-banging
11:57.45vmasterg2 tried that almost a year ago
11:57.59rwhitbyah, and I want to use it on an ixp4xx with ftdi via usb
11:58.03vmasteri renamed the options since then
11:58.04vmasteryeah
11:58.08vmaster12:58 < vmaster> use "--enable-ft2232_libftdi"
11:58.28rwhitbywould those options still work for [g2], or am I going to break it for him?
12:00.59SpeedEvilaloril: no - I'm doing too much on my house ATM.
12:01.11SpeedEvilNo time :(
12:01.18rwhitbyvmaster: thx for the tips
12:01.28vmasterrwhitby: guess noone actually used it, and noone should use the source from back then
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12:03.25koen|galinhasrwhitby: they won't
12:03.27koen|galinhasrwhitby: and [g2] didn't make that recipe, I did :)
12:03.50rwhitbykoen|galinhas: I need to add something to make it look in staging fir ftdi.h too
12:04.26ElrondHi people.
12:04.48Elrondcounter
12:04.49alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review P1: 2 weeks, 4 days 23:55:11 (18.997 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (532)
12:04.59hrwhi Elrond
12:05.03Elrondhrw - Hi!
12:05.11Elrondhrw - How's your unbricking going?
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12:06.05friedelI think the counter is making it feel longer.
12:06.11hrwElrond: I took a look at devirginator and will probably lash environment to it. but now neo does not turn on so I skip it and do my hunt for missing symbol
12:07.02Elrondhrw - It doesn't even turn on, when getting power via usb?
12:07.09ElrondHmm, that sounds very breakish.
12:07.10*** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5492A29C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
12:08.43hrwElrond: nokia 770 starts with that battery... neo does not
12:08.51alorilhmm.. [[FAQ]] has link to [[Neo1973]] which has link to [[Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review]]
12:08.58alorilcounter_msg
12:08.59alorilaloril changed counter prefix message to
12:09.15SpeedEvilYeah.
12:09.33SpeedEvilI was going to fold some of the P0 review stuff into it.
12:10.22SpeedEvilAnd add a picture - as you can probably tell.
12:11.21alorilSpeedEvil: if I read history correctly, you added 2007-03-25 date to Neo1973, so I guess its OK to change to "Late March" (or whatever latest mail is using)
12:11.47alorilSpeedEvil: umm.. you are editing [[Neo1973]] currently?
12:12.13SpeedEvilI changed it to late march
12:12.24SpeedEvilI'm done for now.
12:12.43ozamosiIsn't the regex for the sites in the topic broken? Shouldn't it be commas instead of pipes?
12:12.54SpeedEvilno.
12:13.02*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca)
12:13.19SpeedEvil(foo|bar)ist matches fooist and barist
12:13.53ozamosiBut it's {foo|bar}, not (foo|bar)
12:14.09SpeedEvildepends.
12:14.14ozamosiThe topic
12:14.20ozamosiThe topic says {foo|bar}
12:14.25SpeedEviloh
12:14.43SpeedEvilPersonally. I'd say just link to wiki
12:15.04koen|galinhasdrat
12:15.16koen|galinhasI can't upgrade uboot because I don't have a linuxbox handy
12:15.28Lumpio-I don't think the topic is supposed to be regex, the dots aren't even escaped :P
12:16.27koen|galinhaswow, maemo has 1400 registered users at their gforge site
12:16.27koen|galinhasand 190 projects
12:16.35rwhitbykoen|galinhas: you need to carry a slug with you wherever you go ...
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12:18.52alorilrwhitby: hehe
12:20.24rwhitbybut seriously, I need to give a demo at a linux users group next week, so I'm setting up an Iomega NAS100d, with bridged wifi, eth0, and usbnet (to neo) so everyone in the room can ssh into the neo and check it out ...
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12:21.01hrwkoen|galinhas: lack of any release news?
12:21.44hrwkoen|galinhas: and how many of those maemo projects has working packages? how many of them can be installed out-of-box?
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12:22.04koen|galinhas_hrw: yes, lack of release news
12:22.14koen|galinhas_hrw: those numbers are pretty bad
12:22.47koen|galinhas_My "packaging is hell, use OE" interested a lot of nokia people :)
12:23.31hrwkoen|galinhas_: that was one of ideas why I got nokia770 ;D
12:23.55rwhitbyvmaster: I think I have openocd connectivity to the neo via the debug board now.  What's an easy way to non-intrusively test that connectivity?
12:24.19hrwrwhitby: 'reg' command?
12:24.32rwhitby(and is this the first time someone has run openocd on an ixp4xx device as the host, rather than the target?)
12:25.22rwhitbyhrw: halt then reg worked :-)
12:25.30koen|galinhas_rwhitby: I used openocd on my loft to test the package a while back :)
12:25.35rwhitby(then resume)
12:25.56rwhitbykoen|galinhas: how come the non-native package was broken then ;-)
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12:26.25koen|galinhas_"a while back"
12:27.08rwhitbyanyway, I'm calling that a success.  You can now successfully debug a neo from an ixp4xx (like nslu2 or nas100d).
12:27.13rwhitbynight all
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12:27.36hrwn8 rwhitby
12:27.38alorilnight
12:28.01hrw~lart that green thing in black case here
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12:28.21hrws/green/red ;D
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12:33.43CoreDump|afkummm, what was the driver for SD again?
12:34.07alorilmodprobe s3cmci.ko
12:34.07alorildevice is /dev/mmcblk0p0
12:34.28alorilshould that be added to P0_Review page (or somewhere else?)
12:35.13CoreDump|afkaloril: thanks! (and yes)
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12:39.10hrwCoreDump|afk: /media/card/ automatically then
12:39.17CoreDump|afki wish
12:39.32CoreDump|afkmount: Mounting /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/card/ failed: Invalid argument
12:39.39koen|galinhas_hmm
12:39.42CoreDump|afkcan't mount the damn thing at all =(
12:39.49koen|galinhas_maemo is going to have a DTMF helper
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12:41.49rwhitbyCoreDump|afk: fails for me too.  fdisk worked, mke2fs worked, mount -t ext2 failed.
12:42.12CoreDump|afkrwhitby: same here
12:42.31CoreDump|afkdid you try util-linux-mount as well? busybox mount is known to be buggy
12:43.21rwhitbyCoreDump|afk: I don't seem to have ext2 in /proc/filesystems
12:43.31CoreDump|afkahem lol
12:43.42rwhitby:-)
12:44.00CoreDump|afkCoreDump|afk: I didn't even think of that.... =D
12:44.25CoreDump|afk<PROTECTED>
12:44.27sanneswhat fs is the root filesystem on?
12:44.34rwhitbymounts fine as ext3 now :-)
12:44.36CoreDump|afksannes: jffs2
12:44.38PBeckhi
12:44.43sannesah, of course
12:44.44CoreDump|afkhi PBeck
12:44.44hrwfilesystem modules you need
12:44.50sannescounter
12:44.50alorilP1: 2 weeks, 4 days 23:15:09 (18.969 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (533)
12:44.54PBeckhey CoreDump|afk
12:45.03vmasterrwhitby: been away for lunch, but i see you already got it working, cool
12:45.19rwhitbyvmaster: yep, all sweet.  will give it a burl tomorrow.
12:45.56alorilcan you do dd on it? (assuming you have 64M fix installed)
12:46.12rwhitbydon't have 64M fix installed
12:46.45vmasterwhere should i look for complete source to the current u-boot for neo1973? installing the whole openmoko-openembedded-stuff isn't exactly what i want
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12:47.16vmasterand i'm not sure on top of which u-boot version the patches from svn are meant to go
12:47.17hrwvmaster: in svn repo
12:47.25hrwvmaster: moment..
12:47.52hrwvmaster: git head
12:47.59vmasterhrw: ah, cool, thx
12:48.12rwhitbyso the SD card quickstart is "modprobe s3cmci; fdisk /dev/mmcblk0 (and create Linux partition); mke2fs -j /dev/mmcblk0p1; mount -t ext3 /dev/mmcblk0p1 /media/card"
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12:52.45hrwneo will get mmc driver and ext2 module
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12:56.27alorilupdated from above instructions: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review#MicroSD
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12:57.22zeckeho
12:57.37TRIsofthi ho :-)
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13:03.29TheCatwow. so many people :)
13:04.26DenisBYhave problem with making openmoko-devel-image
13:04.50DenisBY| FATAL: oe_libinstall: unable to locate shared library
13:05.06DenisBYin package libelf-0.8.6-r0
13:05.29balrog-kunwhere does mb-applet-battery read the battery state from? does it only poke apm?
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13:10.41zeckeDenisBY: hehe, why do you have a i486?
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13:17.11hrwbalrog-kun: on ARM there is no other way now
13:18.35balrog-kunhrw: in familiar, on some devices, it'll read the state out of /sys
13:21.37hrwbalrog-kun: hh.org kernel team added some simple battery class but no one from outside of hh.org use it
13:21.57hrwbalrog-kun: olpc guys created something but this also is not in mainline yet.
13:22.46balrog-kunhrw: i see
13:22.49balrog-kunah yes, the adc class
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13:26.34alorilupdated http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 (it should now have all info I know from official sources (everything referenced))
13:27.19noiddawesome
13:28.37alorilcounter_msg http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973
13:28.37alorilaloril changed counter prefix message to http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973
13:29.11EblisImage:nice_pic_of_front_of_phone_running_openmoko.jpg|650px <- doesn't work :)
13:29.33Ebliswhen will the projects hosted on projects.openmoko.org have working svn access ? :)
13:30.08alorilSpeedEvil: umm.. should above image work?
13:33.50etf|workno images that I can find of that name
13:39.37alorildon't know any image in wiki that would fit that description
13:39.52etf|workI'd use this one http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:FIC-neo1973_small.jpg
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13:40.27alorilyeah, I guess until we have real image
13:40.40etf|workmm a real pic would be better
13:41.27etf|workany p0 guys like to donate a nice full frontal pic of the neo? :)
13:43.43hrwaloril: you can extract neo from my flickr photo
13:50.57SpeedEvilNo - it was a placeholder URL
13:51.03SpeedEvilWRL>
13:51.04SpeedEvil?
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13:54.38alphaonehttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Booting_from_SD
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13:56.16alorilSpeedEvil: OK (myself probably won't do further edits today)
13:58.11alphaoneI just finished the instructions on that page. It does work for me but if anyone needs clarification don't hesitate to ask
13:59.26DenisBYzecke, don't know. in my local.conf: BUILD_ARCH = "i686"
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14:00.10DenisBYI don't know why there is i486
14:00.26zeckeDenisBY: do you have a staging/i486-linux directory?
14:01.05DenisBYyes
14:01.13DenisBY| oe_libinstall: cd lib
14:01.13DenisBY| oe_libinstall: install -d /home/moko/build/tmp/staging/i486-linux/lib//
14:01.14DenisBY| oe_libinstall: install -m 0644 libelf.a /home/moko/build/tmp/staging/i486-linux/lib//
14:01.14DenisBY| FATAL: oe_libinstall: unable to locate shared library
14:01.50Eblishmm, are the projects on projects.openmoko.org functional ?
14:01.50zeckedon't know it was, I have seen this error on ~sunday
14:02.19zeckeDenisBY: your host is declared i486, libelf decides that shared libraries don't work on i486
14:05.11DenisBYbut why?
14:06.17DenisBY# uname -m
14:06.18DenisBYi686
14:07.38*** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161)
14:07.43zeckeDenisBY: if you start to build, does it say i686? or i486?
14:09.11DenisBYTARGET_ARCH    = "i486"
14:10.12*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)
14:12.10DenisBYbut where build system got this? where to change it?
14:12.25sannesfgrep TARGET_ARCH * -R ? :P
14:12.47zeckeDenisBY: check bitbake.conf for TARGET_ARCH
14:13.05zeckeDenisBY: redo the python code and check the result, and then fallback to the grep -rn
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14:17.02DenisBYzecke, in bitbake.conf: TARGET_ARCH = "${BUILD_ARCH}"
14:17.52zeckeDenisBY: then check BUILD_ARCH?
14:18.16DenisBYno BUILD_ARCH in this file
14:18.36DenisBYadd it?
14:18.55zeckein my universe the default value for BUILD_ARCH is not i486
14:19.06zeckeDenisBY: so it is somewhere, and set to i486
14:19.52DenisBYI know, but where? :) ok, I'll try to find
14:20.11Eblishmm, are the projects on projects.openmoko.org functional ?
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14:27.03CIA-7openmoko: 03werner * r1340 10/developers/werner/config.devirginator: Recent example config. Uses local u-boot.
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14:52.49LuitvDany dutch people around?
14:53.14LuitvDdoes anyone know about the import tax on the neo devices ?
14:53.30TRIsoftIt's simply your local VAT
14:53.43LuitvDmeh... that sucks
14:53.55LuitvD350$ + 19%
14:54.13TRIsoftNo. $350 + $xx shipping + 19%
14:54.35LuitvD316 Euro's
14:54.41LuitvD+ shipping
14:54.56LuitvDVAT over shipping cost?
14:54.58vmasterVAT goes on top of price + shipping
14:55.11TRIsoftVAT over endprice (device + shipping)
14:55.11Clintthat's quite some value
14:55.30TRIsoftGuess it'll be roughly 400 EUR.
14:55.32XorAluckilly customs offices sometimes cant count
14:55.39vmasterhehehe
14:55.46DenisBYzecke, found where it is: /home/moko/openembedded/conf/machine/x86.conf
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14:56.58LuitvDI'm glad there's no additional import tax on handheld electronic devices
14:57.42LuitvDthere's 3,5% additional import tax on CD's for instance
14:57.58LuitvDeven 14% on videocameras
14:58.12friedel€400 is getting close to a month's salary for people on some parts of the world :-(
14:58.14LuitvDand 12% on jeans XD
14:58.33LuitvDfriedel: it's more then that for me... unemployed :)
14:58.57sannesso it is true opensource people don't really have to eat .... :D
14:59.40rohsannes yes, it is... like philosophs and musicians
14:59.57djay-ilbut consider this: you pay the same money for "regular" cellphone when you sign with carrier
15:00.22LuitvDsannes: lol, nah, what do you expect of a 17-yearold
15:00.32vmasterdjay-il: heh, yeah, but you can actually make phone calls with that phone from your carrier ;)
15:01.33XorAvmaster: P0 can make phonecalls :-)
15:01.46XorAvmaster: its just very 1337 how you do it
15:04.06vmasterheh, yeah, i just wanted to point that imho you can't treat P{0,1} as a phone - and €300-400 for a 266mhz devboard with a touchscreen, gsm, gps and bt ain't that bad
15:04.16djay-ilvmaster: true, but this one runs linux :-)
15:04.48XorAvmaster: yeah for a debug board its dirt cheap
15:04.51TRIsoftvmaster: And if you call it a phone, it has to be cheaper *lookspuzzled* ?
15:05.31XorAout of interest what speed does a P0 run at
15:05.40djay-ilbesides, noone will buy this because *it can make phone calls*, but because it will do so much more
15:05.41XorAsomeone gonna look at first few lines of dmesg
15:05.46buzthat's why i still think FIC should sell the board alone, really
15:05.59pH5XorA: apparently not all of them can use GSM :( http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=256
15:06.10pH5XorA: it runs at 200MHz unless you switch to something else in u-boot
15:06.24pH5266MHz seems to be stable here, but I don't have a debug board.
15:07.12XorApH5: ah cool, Im here with a pre P0 board so I was wondering if P0 had jacked up the speed
15:07.27XorApH5: that GSM bug sucks
15:07.49XorApH5: Ill have to test my P0, as my P-1 I have actually made a phonecall on
15:08.02buzyou have a P1?
15:08.12djay-ilhey, 200Mhz is fast enough for lots of things
15:08.12vmaster-1
15:08.17XorAP (negative) 1
15:08.19buzoo
15:08.20buzright
15:08.31XorAP0--
15:10.20pH5XorA: btw, I tried to play the frequency sweeps that are linked from the wiki and I get some strange noises at high frequencies and high (amplifier) volume.
15:10.43aloril2LuitvD: there will be ordering from inside EU too, no idea about price though
15:11.12LuitvDaloril: ah, that's good :)
15:11.20XorApH5: I get quite a bit of digital interference
15:11.31XorApH5: got a wiki link?
15:12.42pH5XorA: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review#Audio
15:13.16LuitvDkoen|away: did you pay any import taxes/BTW?
15:13.16pH5XorA: it is especially audible in the linear sweep from http://www.dr-lex.34sp.com/random/20-16000HzLin10sec.mp3
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15:17.39XorApH5: the woowoo noiuse?
15:19.33pH5XorA: kind of. like a slightly noisy lower frequency that goes up and down.
15:19.53XorApH5: yeah I here it
15:19.58XorAhear
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15:20.51XorApH5: it is also there on my PC though
15:21.47XorAit does sound like aliasing to me, someone probly screwed up the encoding
15:22.07philippewell 16KHz is about the cutoff frequency for mp3 in the high tones, don't know about the low one.
15:22.07pH5XorA: I have the same on my usb sound card
15:22.28pH5XorA: but I don't hear it when playing back with my laptop's internal intel8x0
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15:37.09zeckeDenisBY: sorry, is that file included somewhere as well?
15:38.12DenisBYdon't know. changing i486 to i686 didn't help. still looking for why there is i486.
15:39.02DenisBYzecke, "OE Build Configuration". as I understand OE=openembedded?
15:39.48hrw~oe
15:39.50apti guess oe is OpenEmbedded (see http://www.openembedded.org ), or "Opportunistic Encryption" (see http://www.wavesec.org ), or an email client which is not to be spoken of.
15:40.14DenisBYthen in /home/moko/openembedded/conf/bitbake.conf: BUILD_ARCH = "${@os.uname()[4]}"
15:40.48zeckeDenisBY: you said BUILD_ARCH was not defined in bitbake.conf?!
15:41.21DenisBYnot in /home/moko/bitbake/conf
15:41.32DenisBYbut in /home/moko/openembedded/conf/
15:42.27zeckeDenisBY: config,inc, and bbclass are found using the BBPATH variable
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15:45.31DenisBYzecke, how to check value of ${@os.uname()[4]}?
15:45.49zeckepython
15:45.51zeckeimport os
15:45.57zeckeos.uname()[4]
15:46.33DenisBYexport OMDIR="/home/moko"
15:46.33DenisBYexport BBPATH="${OMDIR}/build:${OMDIR}/oe:${OMDIR}/openembedded"
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15:47.22DenisBY>>> os.uname()[4]
15:47.23DenisBY'i686'
15:47.34DenisBYmystic...
15:48.07zeckeyes, I should really implement tracing assignment of variables
15:48.20zeckeDenisBY: happy grepping
15:48.37DenisBY:)
15:49.36DenisBYI've hardcode i686 in config. same result...
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15:49.56zeckeDenisBY: copy the bitbake.conf from oe into you conf/ directory
15:50.32zeckeDenisBY: and change the last line of it to do the assignment ;) But still. find the real issue
15:51.47DenisBYdo I need to clean any cache?
15:52.03zecketry :)
15:52.21zeckeit should reparse everything, just check how much it reparsed (or judge by speed)
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16:00.08bobynbonjour everyone
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16:04.12SpeedEvilBonjour.
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16:06.56peepsalotis there working player for flac in openmoko yet?
16:07.54peepsaloti just saw the discussion of the mp3 sweeps for p0 audio reviews, seems that ideally the sweeps would be in lossless format.
16:08.06SpeedEvilIn practice, it doesn't really matter.
16:08.18SpeedEvilIf you're just using the ears as detector devices
16:08.20SpeedEvilOh
16:08.25peepsalotwell, those mp3's sound messed up on my computer
16:08.26SpeedEvilgoogle 'siggen source linux'
16:08.36peepsalotdid you listen to them?
16:08.47SpeedEvilNo - what page are they linked off
16:08.58peepsalothttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review#Audio
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16:09.55SpeedEvil<PROTECTED>
16:10.04SpeedEvilis a nice trivial signal generator package
16:10.14SpeedEvilyou will need a BT keyboard ort some text means.
16:10.50SpeedEvilactually - the keyb emulator should work
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16:12.31SpeedEvilSounds OK here.
16:12.50peepsalotlisten to the 10s linear, do you hear little glitches towards the end?
16:12.59SpeedEvilthat was the 10s log
16:13.46SpeedEvilInteresting.
16:13.49peepsalotactually the glitches for me are throughout, not just towards end.  def more noticable on linear
16:14.07SpeedEvilThere is some sort of aliasing - if it's my soundcard or not, I don't know.
16:14.12SpeedEvilAnyway 'siggen' - works well.
16:15.42SpeedEvilInteresting.
16:15.45pH5SpeedEvil: do you have a link to the siggen source?
16:15.49SpeedEvilno
16:15.57SpeedEvilwhy? has the ftp site gone down?>
16:17.20pH5looks like it, I can't resolve that host.
16:18.37peepsalothttp://freshmeat.net/projects/signalgenerator/ is this the same one?
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16:19.35pH5peepsalot: yes, thanks.
16:19.48SpeedEvilLooks like it.
16:20.53SpeedEvilyes, it is.
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16:50.55CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1341 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (8 files in 3 dirs):
16:50.55CIA-7openmoko: first attempt at pulling today's event from eds
16:50.55CIA-7openmoko: src/today-main.c: pull all events and quickly show them using the existing infoline widget
16:50.55CIA-7openmoko: tests/ecal-test.c: cooked up some tests to ease ecal functions debugging
16:51.01CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1342 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/src/today-main.c: Show events starting dates
16:51.03CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1343 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/configure.ac: remove -Werror flag
16:51.07CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1344 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/src/today-main.c:
16:51.07CIA-7openmoko: first attempt at pulling today's event from eds
16:51.07CIA-7openmoko: src/today-main.c: pull all events and quickly show them using the existing infoline widget
16:51.09CIA-7openmoko: tests/ecal-test.c: cooked up some tests to ease ecal functions debugging
16:51.16CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1345 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/src/today-main.c: unfuck last rebase from the work branch
16:51.23CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1346 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (7 files in 3 dirs): (log message trimmed)
16:51.23CIA-7openmoko: Initial commit of the TodayEventsArea widget
16:51.23CIA-7openmoko:  * src/today-events-area.c,h: initial attempt at coding an
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16:51.25CIA-7openmoko:  EventArea widget that takes a list of ECalComponent representing
16:51.27CIA-7openmoko:  a list of event and showing these events "page by page".
16:51.29CIA-7openmoko:  You can select events, and cycle through the event pages.
16:51.31CIA-7openmoko:  * src/today-main.c: use the new EventArea widget for testing
16:51.38mickeyl"unfuck last rebase"
16:51.39mickeyltsss
16:52.11SpeedEvilShould it be hyphenated?
16:52.20SpeedEvilun-fuck? :)
16:52.20mickeylheh
16:52.22pH5SpeedEvil, peepsalot: I get those noises with siggen's swgen, too.
16:52.35SpeedEvilTurn the volume down.
16:52.53SpeedEvilYou can get lots of odd artifacts when you are clipping on the speaker.
16:53.04SpeedEvilor electrically.
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16:57.14ElrondSpeedEvil - un-*cemsored* ;o)
16:59.25CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1347 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (ChangeLog autogen.sh): Remove specifif --prefix from autogen.sh
16:59.30CIA-7openmoko: 03dodji * r1348 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/configure.ac: Revert specifics from configure.ac
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17:02.37hrwhi Dodji
17:02.40Dodjihello
17:02.42Dodjihey hrw
17:03.15Dodjimickey|bbi1h: sorry for my bad language. I will take greater care about it from now on.
17:03.45mickey|bbi1hheh, no problem ;)
17:04.18mickey|bbi1hwelcome on board, btw!
17:04.29Dodjimickey|bbi1h: thank you :-)
17:04.37pH5SpeedEvil: that obviously helps :) (it's not the speakers, though. with zero amp and full pcm volume the noise is very loud, but with full amp and only half pcm volume it is nearly inaudible) --> solution: keep pcm volume low, use amp instead (or don't play loud 10kHz -> 16kHz sweeps).
17:06.11SpeedEvil:)
17:06.16SpeedEvilOverall impression of the sound?
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17:07.34ElrondHi Dodji
17:08.15DenisBYzecke, r u still here?
17:08.25zeckesort of
17:08.33DenisBYzecke, finaly i've found...
17:08.36Elrond<-- heading home.
17:08.48DenisBYit's in /home/moko/openmoko/trunk/oe/conf/machine/x86.conf
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17:09.25DodjiElrond: hello
17:09.40zeckeDenisBY: now you have two options. Fix libelf and the stupid assumption on i486 and shared libs
17:10.24zeckeDenisBY: or change the assignment to ?=
17:13.45BrianHVout of sheer curiosity, where would a person be located if such a person were an application developer for openmoko?
17:14.28SpeedEvilOn the way to amarillo?
17:14.38DenisBYzecke, what you recommend? :)
17:15.29stefan_schmidtBrianHV: You can work from everywhere.
17:16.06BrianHVinnnnteresting.
17:16.22zeckeDenisBY: both
17:16.26BrianHVif only my experience were with gtk, and not with wx and .net...
17:16.30Stephmwstefan_schmidt: everywhere could be painful... how about anywhere? :)
17:16.45stefan_schmidtStephmw: heh, indeed you're right.
17:16.54stefan_schmidt~lart myself for bad english
17:17.04Stephmwlol
17:17.29Stephmwstefan_schmidt: meh, don't worry about it - most english-native people aren't too hot at the language
17:21.03SpeedEvilYou can work from everywhere - but I don't think we've got many omnipresent devs.
17:23.17DenisBYmay be you (or someone) need a sysadmin? :)
17:23.30*** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com)
17:27.45pH5SpeedEvil: it is loud :)
17:27.58*** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@189.16.225.25)
17:30.07pH5SpeedEvil: I think, the sound is quite good, but of course the speakers are too small to be taken seriously, and I don't have much to compare. The call speaker feels very high-quality when playing back sounds. I hope the S/N ratio will be as good when it is fed by the GSM modem.
17:33.31*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)
17:33.33SpeedEvilIt won't, alas. Not at GSM bitrates.
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17:43.20pH5SpeedEvil: There are phones that sound worse than what GSM could be made responsible for. So I hope that GSM and not the TI phone firmware will be the weakest link in the chain. The WM codec / amp / speakers certainly won't be.
17:43.26SpeedEvilTrue.
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17:46.00rbs-titoAny joy on the wireless chipset woes then?
17:46.01alorilWhen version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some model later this year probably will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F
17:46.17*** join/#openmoko Mandarina (n=embo@253.pool85-50-102.dynamic.orange.es)
17:46.32MandarinaHello!
17:46.37rbs-titoHello
17:46.44*** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl)
17:47.12MandarinaI got a few questions about OM... could I do it here?
17:47.14alorilMandarina: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
17:47.24Mandarinajejejje xD
17:47.38vmasterhehe, these triggers do an amazing job :)
17:47.42helb:D
17:48.04rbs-titoah, a bot. Thats how it answered so fast.
17:48.51MandarinaThere are a good developers around... xD It has logic...
17:49.36MandarinaSome of you dispose of Neo device?
17:50.01rbs-titoAs in thworing the Neo away?
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17:52.40Mandarinaye
17:54.22tito|bbiabMandarina: Are you insane???
17:54.23aloriltito|bbiab: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
17:54.46tito|bbiabaloril: I doubt that is on the FAQ, stupid bot.
17:54.52balrog-kunheh
17:55.19Mandarinajejejeje
17:55.27*** join/#openmoko koen|galinhas (n=koen@189.16.225.25)
17:55.55Mandarinatito insane? Why?
17:56.44balrog-kundispose mean something like destruir or echar in english
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17:58.45MandarinaMe has pillado :P Supongo que serás de habla castellana xD
17:59.49MandarinaRepeat: do some of you have one Neo device?
18:00.05SpeedEvilThe phase 0 developers have got phones.
18:00.11SpeedEvilThere are 36 of them.
18:00.20SpeedEvilYou can buy it at the end of march.
18:00.33MandarinaAnother bot?
18:00.39balrog-kuni'm not really authoritative in either spanish or english :(
18:00.51balrog-kunbut i speak some
18:01.51balrog-kunMandarina: yes, some people here are the happy Neo owners :p
18:02.16Mandarinacool! You are a VIP :P
18:02.29peepsalotSpeedEvil, Stab in a human way?  Like as opposed to a (robotic|zombie|ape) way?  Or you mean humane way?
18:03.26MandarinaI'm feeling like a lam :(
18:03.33SpeedEvilIn a non-robotic way.
18:03.56peepsalotah, ok ;-)
18:04.02balrog-kuni see no reason for robots to not stab people :p
18:04.40SpeedEvilIt's needed if we are ever to implement CTCP STABINFACE.
18:06.06MandarinaI'll do a stupid question.... in wich color did you receive Neo?
18:06.16SpeedEvilMost of them are black/silver
18:06.23SpeedEvilsome are orange/white
18:06.26SpeedEvilone is red/white
18:06.32SpeedEvilAs I understand it.
18:07.08Mandarinajejej thanks :)
18:08.05MandarinaSorry for my questions bombing
18:08.15SpeedEvilNo problem.
18:08.27balrog-kunin the red/white one, red is the stripe or the rest of the case?
18:08.35SpeedEvilred srripe
18:08.54SpeedEvilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_AUX_button
18:08.58SpeedEvilHas a closeup
18:09.17*** join/#openmoko koen|galinhas_ (n=koen@189.16.225.25)
18:09.19balrog-kunoh nice
18:09.52aevinSpeedEvil: nice 'shopping ;-)
18:09.52Mandarinoyeah like a cherry :P
18:09.59balrog-kunis there are reason for making one phone in different colours?
18:10.34Mandarinobalrog in Spain we say: "Para gustos los colores" :P
18:10.34SpeedEvilaevin: The red one is actually real.
18:11.01balrog-kunheh
18:11.07SpeedEvilI was trying to make the other button photo match this one, but couldn't.
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18:11.28aevinaha, so it was the other one you were shopping, then.
18:13.29MandarinoWhat can I do to be the 37 cool developer who "disposes"/has a Neo, before end of March....?
18:13.29alorilMandarino: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
18:13.55SpeedEvilYeah - I could get it to a bright red, but XV diddn't do moderating the brightness at the same time, just hue.
18:13.55Mandarinoaloril ...... keep in peace
18:14.07SpeedEvilNothing.
18:14.14SpeedEvilAll the phase 0 phones are now sent.
18:14.18aevinSpeedEvil: i see from the history the aux button image is cropped from the nomad prototype cover:)
18:14.31SpeedEvilyeah.
18:14.50SpeedEvilActually - no.
18:15.11SpeedEvilIt diddn't really show it well.
18:15.20SpeedEvilThis is a crop of a picture by Kown
18:15.29SpeedEvile/w/e/
18:15.29mickeylbuz: somewhere this year
18:15.29SpeedEvils/w/e/
18:15.34SpeedEvilsigh.
18:15.36buzi now ;)
18:15.37MandarinoWhen the phase 0 was closed?
18:15.39buzknow
18:15.55SpeedEvilNovember?
18:16.10buz(however, free as in gratis would be killer ;)
18:16.36aevinSpeedEvil: haha. apt is funny.
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18:20.35Mandarinoaish aish.......
18:20.52*** join/#openmoko cworth (n=cworth@c-67-160-161-141.hsd1.or.comcast.net)
18:21.20MandarinoActually are you developing some app or module :?
18:22.48*** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-33-130.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
18:25.03MandarinoI think that I'll create a spanish comunity of Neo Moko:P
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18:26.54SpeedEvil:) There isn't a spanish version of anything on the wiki. You might add to that.
18:28.04koen|galinhas_mickeyl, LaF0rge: http://www.mail-archive.com/linux-usb-devel@lists.sourceforge.net/msg50334.html
18:28.18MandarinoPerfect
18:28.38Mandarinotomorrow I design the strategy :P
18:28.53*** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@miranda/contributor/eblis)
18:30.42buzi wonder which created more stir, the offer of a gratis phone or wifi ;)
18:30.50MandarinoWhen do we know the concrete date for the phase 1?
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18:34.32SpeedEvilLate march.
18:34.38SpeedEvilIs as good as we've gotten.
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18:43.33Mandarinouhms... are you one of admin of this project?
18:43.57SpeedEvilThere are no admins as such that hang out here.
18:44.11SpeedEvilMost of the core team is actually working/coding stuff.
18:46.27MandarinoHow many people compose the core team :? .... It became an interrogatory :P
18:51.05SpeedEvil4-5?
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18:54.32MandarinoEnough!
19:00.27guaquai'm not too impressed the plans on the messages software
19:00.35guaquaimpressed of, that is
19:00.47hrw1265224 files to consider
19:00.49hrwops
19:00.50guaquai think i'm going to compile a list of stuff that needs to be there
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19:18.06Mandarinoput me there :P
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19:27.58aloril2Mandarino: if you aren't subscribed to announce list, you might want to subscribe so you will be informed when Phase 1 pre-ordering becomes available
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19:31.35MandarinoOk aloril2, I'll do
19:32.55MandarinoTomorrow I begin with the wiki and suscribing at all :)
19:34.43mjroh sheesh
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19:35.12mjrthat guy on the community list rambling about how fic should ascertain with which providers and plans you can get the Neo on-line _worldwide_
19:35.30mjrfucking asshole, 'scuse my freedom
19:40.35Mandarino:?
19:40.41MandarinoYou talk to me? xD
19:41.40mjrif you're Mike <fromlists@talkingspider.com>
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19:46.48Mandarinono xD
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19:49.58MandarinoI have to go :P
19:50.05MandarinoSee you tomorrow :)
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20:26.58guaquahas someone got openmoko-libs to compile on ubuntu?
20:27.27guaquai'm thinking ditching the whole distro for easier making of packages because of this
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20:29.00vmasterguaqua: do you have /bin/sh link to /bin/dash?
20:29.21guaquano
20:29.30guaquagtk+ 2.6 is the problem
20:29.33vmasterah, ok
20:29.51vmasterjust remember reading something in this channel about problems with the ubuntu default /bin/sh
20:30.43guaquayeah, removing dash was in the wiki tutorial
20:31.27guaquai'm just not very enthusiastic about trying to work around the distro to get stuff working, i'd rather work on stuff i understand about - like compiling the stuff myself :S
20:31.44guaqua-about
20:32.19Hadakaif dash is a problem, then I'd blame openmoko
20:32.28parag0ni wonder why nobody has make a .deb that encompasses everything we need for moko development
20:33.15cjbBecause you need an entire distribution>
20:33.16cjb?
20:34.01guaquadunno, but this isn't working
20:34.04hrwparag0n: install openembedded-essential package from http://www.openembedded.org/dl/packages/
20:34.05SpeedEvilIt'd just be a few hundred M iso.
20:34.30parag0nin fact, an entire distro would work quite well >:)
20:34.36guaquadid that, hrw
20:34.38Hadakavmware player/kvm virtual machine would probably be a good idea in any case
20:34.40guaquastill not enough
20:34.42SpeedEvilYou don't even need to install it.
20:34.46SpeedEvilchroot works OK.
20:35.03hrwguaqua: what missing?
20:35.50vmasterhrw: how's your phone doing?
20:36.03hrwvmaster: DEAD
20:36.07vmasterouch :(
20:36.08hrwFUCKING DEAD
20:36.26guaquachecking for GTK... configure: error: *** Required Gtk+ Library >= 2.6 not installed ***
20:36.33hrwtomorrow I will spend 20-30 EUR and buy Nokia phone which use BL-5C to get battery
20:36.34guaquahrw: that's about it
20:36.40hrwguaqua: OE does not need gtk
20:36.49guaquathis is openmoko-libs
20:36.56guaquaand the provided autogen.sh
20:37.45hrwguaqua: works for me (OE not openmoko versions)
20:37.55hrwguaqua: we can discuss that tomorrow
20:37.56hrwcu
20:38.15guaquayeah. i have a research paper due friday anyway, so better get to that :)
20:39.49*** join/#openmoko mako-sam1 (i=1000@89.148.25.29)
20:43.58*** join/#openmoko andymk (n=andy@adsl-static-1-193.uklinux.net)
20:44.58*** join/#openmoko denis^weg (n=denis@p54928FDE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
20:48.44CMI hope they get some good applications sent in about the job in that announce mail
21:02.17*** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114)
21:06.00*** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-42-90.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
21:08.14*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@ectalion.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
21:18.57*** join/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34)
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21:27.17*** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz)
21:27.29pavelmHeya, everyone
21:28.14*** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@189.16.225.25)
21:28.15CMmorning ;)
21:31.14xkr47gug
21:31.15pavelmIt is actually almost 11pm here :-). Anyway...
21:31.16pavelm...did anyone get compiler compatible with openmoko working?
21:31.17CMpavelm: Here too, .se, but rules are rules.. :P
21:31.17CM~ugt
21:31.31apti heard ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
21:31.31CMapt: Wake up!
21:31.33aptACTION throws a barrel-full of ice water on up! and shouts "GOOD MORNING!!!!"
21:31.34CMugt?
21:31.52*** join/#openmoko gabaug (i=gabe@nat/ibm/x-330f931e3b00a4cf)
21:31.53CMHeh, oups. Hadn't seen that one before
21:31.54pavelm:-)
21:32.42pavelmAlternatively... do you know if channel for olpc exists? (That's probably offtopic here).
21:33.03pavelm...native compiler for openmoko would help, too :-).
21:33.19k-spavelm: you can check by enter it... or create one ;-)
21:33.23CMpavelm: That channel exists
21:33.30ElrondHi pavelm!
21:33.54pavelmHi, elrond.
21:34.24pavelmTrying to get my text-mode phone software to run on openmoko, but I do not have compatible compiler :-(.
21:34.42CMpavelm: Tried using the mokomakefile?
21:34.55pavelmCM: I'm afraid I do not have 7GB free.
21:35.19SpeedEvilI have a spare 12GB IDE drive you can have :)
21:35.22pavelmCM: Does it have reasonable dependencies? This is old debian system :-(.
21:35.42CMAha, well, monotone 0.32, bitbake 1.6..
21:35.49pavelmSpeed: :-))) Thanks for offer. Do you have compiler working?
21:36.03*** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-42-90.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
21:36.14k-spavelm: which kind of sw is that?
21:36.38pavelmk-s: ?
21:36.48SpeedEvilNo - I'm having hardware problems of my own - http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls.html - house hacking. I really need to reinstall pretty much everything here - slackware 8 or something here.
21:37.53*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)
21:38.08guaquaslackware, hmm
21:38.23k-spavelm: <pavelm> Trying to get my text-mode phone software to run on openmoko
21:39.07pavelmk-s: tui.sf.net... simple hacks I created for siemens sx1.
21:39.16*** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti541210a080-0076.bb.online.no)
21:39.48guaquaslackware still comes with 2.4 kernel as default
21:40.32k-spavelm: does it implement any known profile?
21:40.46k-spavelm: have you heard about "selfone"?
21:40.57k-shttps://garage.maemo.org/projects/selfone/
21:41.19k-sit implements handsfree profile, which enables you to dial, answer, ...
21:41.43pavelmk-s: Known profile?
21:41.44k-syou can choose to not open SCO connection, so you'll just remote control it
21:41.56k-spavelm: like handset, handsfree, ...
21:42.03k-ss/handset/headset/
21:43.12pavelmk-s: it is intended to run on linux machine, and it will allow you to make calls.
21:43.28*** join/#openmoko atla_ (n=atla@p3EE3F82C.dip.t-dialin.net)
21:43.31pavelmk-s: It does not know anything about mixers, so it will use whatever audio is connected to gsm unit.
21:43.32k-spavelm: have a check at selfone
21:44.39k-spavelm: we have 2 separated modules, bt-handsfree and bt-sco. The first just controls RFCOMM channel, so nothing related to mixers, sound output... just control of who is calling, ring notification, ...
21:45.09k-spavelm: maybe it works for you and you want to join the project and cooperate :-)
21:47.40andymkbye
21:49.20k-spavelm: bt-sco and bt-handsfree there should be shared objects in future, but it lacks some work yet
21:49.37pavelmk-s: I'm not interested in bluetooth audio.
21:49.54k-spavelm: but you don't need the audio :-)
21:50.02*** part/#openmoko GhoSt_DoG (i=Spirit@81.20.244.2)
21:50.03k-spavelm: that's what I'm talking
21:50.18k-spavelm: bt-sco == audio, bt-handsfree != audio
21:50.20pavelmk-s: some kind of dialer is needed on openmoko... like gomunicator. But that's graphical beast - hard to compile.
21:50.39pavelmk-s: Ok, so I do not want the bluetooth, either ;-)
21:51.17k-spavelm: ok... we could split AT from rfcomm, if you're interested :-)
21:51.39k-spavelm: you could provide your own socket/fd to it
21:52.04k-spavelm: how do you connect to it? /dev/ttyS0?
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21:53.25pavelmk-s: Yes, something like that.
21:53.31ucordeswhat is open moko?
21:53.31alorilucordes: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.)
21:53.54*** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-144-166.dsl.telepac.pt)
21:54.02ucordes!botsnack
21:54.15ucordesgood bot!
21:54.30zipolaYou have this great bot here :)
21:54.59BrianHVno kidding.  my bot never catches the snacks.  they always hit the floor...
21:55.09ucordes:D
21:55.17ucordesthe wiki is not loading though
21:55.24k-spavelm: well... I want to get this selfone project ahead
21:55.57ucordesdo you know a guy called stefan_schmidt?
21:56.13pavelmk-s: The device is at /dev/ttySAC0,
21:56.27k-spavelm: it's really simple, if you want to try just open your FD and put it in bt_handsfree_t->rfcomm, if it does what you want just let me know and I'll split the RFCOMM connection from it, so it's more generic and you can use it too
21:56.56pavelmk-s: Do you have arm binaries...? My biggest problem is I can't compile anything at the moment.
21:57.00ucordesok it loaded- i'm a a man without patience
21:57.11pavelmk-s: openmoko just refuses my binaries with "illegal instruction".
21:57.14k-spavelm: I can provide some, but I'm using scratchbox atm
21:57.34k-spavelm: I don't have any openmoko yet, just maemo
21:57.41k-spavelm: but it should work, same abi
21:58.14pavelmk-s: What version is your toolchain?
21:58.25pavelmk-s: Mine is /scratchbox/compilers/arm-gcc-3.3.4-glibc-2.3.2/bin/arm-linux- -- broken on openmoko :-(
21:58.34k-ssbox-arm-linux-gcc (GCC) 3.4.4 (release) (CodeSourcery ARM 2005q3-2)
21:59.26*** part/#openmoko cyrilRomain (n=cyrilRom@AToulouse-157-1-32-2.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr)
21:59.51ucordesis moko using dpkg?
22:00.15*** join/#openmoko paulproteus (n=paulprot@pool-151-196-111-202.balt.east.verizon.net)
22:00.16pavelmk-s: You have slightly newer version; not sure if that is enough.
22:00.35pavelmk-s: Do you have binaries somewhere?
22:00.41k-spavelm: I can ship you my test using DCC?
22:01.16k-sjust build a version withoit minimal dependencies
22:01.19k-s[sbox-CANOLA-ARM: ~/Development/svn/selfone] > ldd test-handsfree-sound_file
22:01.19k-s<PROTECTED>
22:01.19k-s<PROTECTED>
22:01.19k-s<PROTECTED>
22:01.20pavelmk-s: not sure if I can control my irc client to receive that. Can you possibly mail them to pavel at ucw.cz (unless they are >2MB or so...)
22:01.50k-s96kb unstripped
22:01.55k-sshould I strip it?
22:02.08pavelmk-s: No, 96kb is fine.
22:02.11k-sby providing gdb info you can do some hacks
22:02.12k-sok
22:02.38pavelmk-s: so selfone runs on n800, issues AT commands etc?
22:02.53pavelmk-s: What does it use for user interface? It is not linked to gtk+...
22:03.12k-spavelm: no ui yet
22:04.13k-spavelm: on n800 it runs just fine, but SCO doesn't work since Bluetooth driver sends data to null instead of HCI/userspace
22:04.21*** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@88.134.99.50)
22:05.51*** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net)
22:05.51zeckehey
22:05.52*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net)
22:08.26ucordeswhere can I buy your phone, people?
22:09.40pavelmk-s: test does not work on openmoko: file not found. Presumably that means missing libraries.
22:09.42pavelmroot@fic-gta01:~$ strace ./delme_test-handsfree-sound_file
22:09.42pavelmexecve("./delme_test-handsfree-sound_file", ["./delme_test-handsfree-sound_fil"...], [/* 12 vars */]) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory)
22:09.42pavelmdup(2)                                  = 3
22:09.42pavelmfcntl64(3, F_GETFL)                     = 0x2 (flags O_RDWR)
22:09.42pavelmfstat64(3, {st_mode=S_IFCHR|0620, st_rdev=makedev(136, 1), ...}) = 0
22:09.44pavelmmmap2(NULL, 4096, PROT_READ|PROT_WRITE, MAP_PRIVATE|MAP_ANONYMOUS, -1, 0) = 0x4001b000_llseek(3, 0, 0xbed1bb3c, SEEK_CUR)     = -1 ESPIPE (Illegal seek)
22:09.47pavelmwrite(3, "strace: exec: No such file or di"..., 40strace: exec: No such file or directory
22:09.49pavelm) = 40
22:09.51pavelmclose(3)                                = 0
22:09.53pavelmmunmap(0x4001b000, 4096)                = 0
22:09.55pavelmio_submit(0x1, 0x1, 0 <unfinished ... exit status 1>
22:09.57pavelmProcess 1134 detached
22:09.59pavelmroot@fic-gta01:~$  ./delme_test-handsfree-sound_file
22:10.01pavelm-sh: ./delme_test-handsfree-sound_file: not found
22:10.03pavelmroot@fic-gta01:~$
22:12.13*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)
22:14.17ucordesplease tell me where i can buy the phone
22:14.45threshnowhere yet
22:14.50pavelmucordes: You can't ... for a few months, anyway.
22:15.06ucordespavelm: a few month?
22:15.06*** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-42-90.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)
22:15.08ucordesman
22:15.10ucordesi need it!
22:15.11ucordesnow
22:15.25ucordescan't i be beta tester?
22:15.34LarstiQwhat do you need it for?
22:15.41SpeedEvilYou can buy maybe at the end of the month. It will be _very_ basic. At most a touchscreen phone.
22:15.50SpeedEvilAnd no other functions working than the phone.
22:15.58ucordesSpeedEvil: what about usb devices?
22:16.11SpeedEvilSure, they work, if you code the app yourself.
22:16.23SpeedEvilAnd provide the required power (USB is unpowered)
22:16.26ucordesSpeedEvil: what app?
22:16.35ucordesSpeedEvil: i know how to build battery
22:16.36SpeedEvilwhatever you want to use the USB for.
22:16.45ucordesSpeedEvil: like external storage?
22:16.54SpeedEvilOh - that you can just mount.
22:16.58*** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-19-110.media.mit.edu)
22:17.09ucordesSpeedEvil: how about 802.11 devices?
22:17.23ucordeslike atheros chipset usb sticks
22:17.30ucordesor rausb
22:18.03vmasterif wifi is criticial you might probably want to wait for the "hardware refresh" that /could/ to bring wifi support
22:18.29ucordesvmaster: it is
22:18.54SpeedEvilAll hardware devices will work just like a normal linux box.
22:18.58SpeedEvil(if you power them).
22:19.02vmasterafaik the problem with wifi usb sticks is that they require 5V power supply, which is difficult to provide
22:19.10ucordesvmaster: what exactly do you mean by hardware refresh? a revision of the device and its components itself or a kernel upgrade bringing  the possibility to add external devices?
22:19.12pavelmspeed: and if you have right modules for your kernel
22:19.17SpeedEvilyeah
22:19.23vmasterucordes: ah new hardware revision
22:19.24SpeedEvilso no binary modules.
22:19.30ucordesvmaster: don't say that. a friend of mine has such a device
22:19.36pavelmspeed: I'd not expect openmoko to support all the different usb devices out of the boxx.
22:19.38ucordesconnected to a different non powered device
22:19.49SpeedEvilOpenmoko, no. The base OS, sure.
22:19.57vmasterucordes: it's certainly not impossible, but difficult
22:19.58SpeedEvilAt this stage, OM doesn't support much anyway.
22:20.07Elronducordes - the kernel is fully open. You can compile anything you need/want.
22:20.20ucordesSpeedEvil: what do you mean by base os yes?
22:20.29SpeedEvilI mean the underlying linux system.
22:20.40ucordesSpeedEvil: so that's what i basically wanted to know
22:20.43SpeedEvilYou can install stuff that is not supported by the openmoko framework.
22:20.47ucordesif there is a possibility of getting it to work
22:20.57SpeedEvilbut you will have to write your own app to talk to it.
22:21.00*** part/#openmoko oskude (n=osku@dslb-084-058-225-055.pools.arcor-ip.net)
22:21.14ucordesSpeedEvil: i see. is there any way of non gui working?
22:21.17SpeedEvilIf you want, you can put a USB oscilloscope on there, and write teh code.
22:21.26ucordeslike tty with on screen keyboarD?
22:21.26SpeedEvilYou can start an xterm.
22:21.30SpeedEvilyes
22:21.34ucordesSpeedEvil: nice
22:21.52SpeedEvilThere may be better text interfaces as time goes on.
22:22.04ElrondSpeedEvil - Or if you're happy, just recompile the code. :-)
22:22.07pavelm...or you can connect bluetooth keyboard.
22:22.08SpeedEvilAs in text entries.
22:22.13SpeedEvilYeah.
22:22.44Elrondgcc, make,  will probably be the first stuff I'll put on the thing. :-)
22:22.53vmasterlol
22:23.04Elrond(I don't want to cross compile, unless there's a openmoko-gcc thing in debian. ;o)
22:23.09SpeedEvilI wonder how long a full OM build will take native.
22:23.11ucordesi saw some presentation about the phone
22:23.19ucordesthey said something about apt-get install
22:23.27balrog-kunthere is an arm-gcc version in debian afaik
22:23.31ucordesdoes the neo use dpkg?
22:23.32Elronducordes - They meant ipkg. ;-)
22:23.35ucordesi see
22:23.53ucordesElixir-: doesn't the Zaurus use ipkg too`?
22:23.54SpeedEvilThe eventual user version will be some friendly wrapper. That probably verifies signatures.
22:24.03SpeedEvilUnless you turn on 'expert' mode.
22:24.19balrog-kunucordes: OE uses ipkg
22:24.56balrog-kunOE is the common denominator of openmoko, familiar, intimate, openzaurus, opensimpad, poky etc
22:24.57ucordeswell i heard about the phone 20 minutes ago and i really have to say
22:25.06ucordesi will most likely buy it
22:25.13ucordesvery convincing your whole thing here!
22:25.22SpeedEvilHave a look on teh wiki.
22:25.43SpeedEvilIt's pretty comprehensive, thoguh could be better organised.
22:25.53ucordesa friend asked me how much eur the phone will be
22:25.59ucordesanything on that yet?
22:26.06SpeedEvil$350 US dollard
22:26.16Elrondbalrog-kun - Hmm, is it in standard debian? Can't easily see it.  And is it OE compatible?
22:26.18SpeedEvilwhatever that is - 300 euro?
22:26.25*** join/#openmoko maydaytx (i=johndoe@cpe-72-178-73-122.hot.res.rr.com)
22:26.28Elrond~change 350 usd to eur
22:26.53Elrondadd tax, shipping, maybe... so I'd assume 300Eur.
22:27.04LarstiQas a minimum
22:27.29SpeedEvilWell...
22:27.42balrog-kunElrond: there's at least one ARM gcc (in packages with random names),
22:27.44SpeedEvilIf they consider it as a strict buisness case.
22:27.47ElrondLarstiQ - Well, 300Eur is my limit.
22:27.51balrog-kunElrond: one is in palmos-sdk
22:28.07SpeedEvilThere is a powerful argument for selling them at a mild loss - to get dev volume.
22:28.24balrog-kunthere should be more of them
22:28.34SpeedEvilAs a few hours of skilled dev time is worth much more than that small loss would be.
22:28.47balrog-kunit's enough for a compiler to be able to produce ARM ELF32 file to work on openmoko afaik
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22:29.17pavelmbalrog-kun: Are you sure?
22:29.21Elrondbalrog-kun - There was this eabi thingy?
22:29.38ElrondSpeedEvil - Yep.
22:29.39pavelmbalrog: my arm-linux-gcc certainly does not produce openmoko-compatible binaries :-(
22:29.52balrog-kundoesn't the defaul kernel have OABI compatibility compiled in?
22:30.14ucordeswill moko support playback of propietary file formats?
22:30.16ucordeslike mp3
22:31.05SpeedEvilIf you install an mp3 player, sure.
22:31.06pavelmucordes: mp3 should be no problem.
22:31.14balrog-kunpavelm: if OABI compatibility is compiled int and if you link statically it must work :p
22:31.16ucordesi don't mean support but rather playback out of the box
22:31.21SpeedEvilI'm not sure if there is one in the default build, I know mp3 got pulled out.
22:31.25ucordeslike the integrity of licensing for that purpose
22:31.31Elronducordes - If you install the players. After all it's just a mostly normal linux thingy.
22:31.42ucordesSpeedEvil: because it is propietary?
22:31.49Elronducordes - That licensing is probably left to the end user. ;o)
22:31.52SpeedEvilerr
22:31.56SpeedEvilmplayer got pulled out.
22:32.04SpeedEvil(becauyse it's too large for the moment)
22:32.13ucordesElrond: ah i see
22:32.53pavelmbalrog: How do I check for that? /proc/config* is not there :-(
22:33.16Elronducordes - As is with your linux based PC. :-)
22:33.34Elrondpavelm - You have a P0 device?
22:33.35ucordesElixir-: i'm using the debian based ubuntu linux
22:33.41balrog-kunpavelm: by running an OABI program i guess :p ae you using the default kernel?
22:34.26pavelmElrond: Yes, I should have phase0 device here.
22:34.33Elronducordes - And ubuntu paid all the royalties for you? ;))
22:34.43Elrondpavelm - :-))
22:35.01pavelmbalrog: And no, I did not have time to change kernel, yet.
22:35.03Elronducordes - BTW: Your tabbing is wrong. I'm not Elixir- ;-)
22:35.22pavelmelrond: it says: gta01b_v3
22:35.32ucordes^^
22:35.34Elrondpavelm - Yep. That's P0.
22:35.35ucordessorry
22:35.36SpeedEvilV3 = P0
22:35.38balrog-kunit appears EABI is disabled iinthe the defconfig alltogether
22:35.39SpeedEvilV4 = P1
22:36.27pavelmbalrog: It would be nice to have EABI enabled -- new enough toolchains are hard to find.
22:37.08balrog-kunEABI is the new thing, OABI is the old thing, meaning that there's only OABI support in the defconfig
22:38.17pavelmbalrog: Then I'm confused... but openmoko does not seem to run old binaries.
22:38.29ElrondHuh?!
22:38.48Elrond<-- more than confused.
22:38.54balrog-kunmay they have switched since i cloned/checked-out, i'm not sure
22:39.05balrog-kunbut for this they would need to change the rootfs too
22:39.14balrog-kunmaybe they only have a modified glibc
22:39.42peepsalotwhat is EABI?
22:39.44ElrondWould a simple "file binary" tell the difference?
22:39.59balrog-kunlemme check
22:40.12pavelmelrond: non-working binary: /home/pavel/sf/tui/phone-arm: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM), for GNU/Linux 2.0.0, statically linked, for GNU/Linux 2.0.0, not stripped
22:40.28pavelmelrond: working binary: sh: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, ARM, version 1 (ARM), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), for GNU/Linux 2.4.0, stripped
22:41.16ElrondThe only difference _I_ can see is the 2.0 vs. 2.4 thing.
22:41.43pavelmelrond: yep, and static vs. dynamic link
22:42.39buzcan someone ban this Mike dude from the mailinglist
22:42.46buzhis trolling is not even entertaining
22:42.48buzit's just dumb
22:43.21*** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p5495053E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
22:43.23*** join/#openmoko bjvest (n=bjvest@0x55511640.adsl.cybercity.dk)
22:43.39Elrondbuz - I would have put that more "political correct". ;-)
22:43.51buzintellectually challenged
22:44.03ElrondBut even I -- and I don't know lots about gsm -- know, that my current GSM provider would just work.
22:44.03balrog-kunduh... -sh: file: not found
22:44.04NatureTMany ballpark guesses on when I might see wifi on one of these badboys?
22:44.12NatureTMheh
22:44.12*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)
22:44.18buzNatureTM: with some luck in summer
22:44.27NatureTM0.0
22:44.27buzi dont know jack about gsm
22:44.33buzi just know, gsm works with any gsm phone
22:44.50*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)
22:44.52SpeedEvilIt's not a completely silly question.
22:45.03buzthe way he poses it is
22:45.06SpeedEvilPrices, especially GPRS prices can vary dramatically per provider.
22:45.11SpeedEvilyeah.
22:45.21buzlike it is the device vendors business to tell him what plan to get
22:45.25SpeedEvilBut 'FIC should tell me' is perhaps a little naive.
22:45.26buzdoesnt really get much more stupid than that
22:45.27ElrondSpeedEvil - Yeah. But he should just ask his provider, really.
22:45.35Elrond... or post a new thread.
22:45.41buzi propose he gets a winmobile device
22:45.42buzand STFU
22:45.51balrog-kunno, there's no difference in "file" output between EABI and OABI
22:45.53SpeedEvilI'd say a group about mobiles in his area.
22:45.57ElrondSTFU?
22:46.05buzmaybe bill gates will tell him what provider to use
22:46.23LarstiQElrond: http://www.voidspace.org.uk/gallery/silly/html/big_cup_of_STFU.html
22:46.26buzElrond: that's the VERY politically incorrect thing to say ;)
22:46.29vmasterhehehe
22:46.54pavelmbalrog: you obviously have a working toolchain...
22:47.02*** join/#openmoko bjvest (n=bjvest@0x55511640.adsl.cybercity.dk)
22:47.03pavelmbalrog: ...is there easy way for me to get it?
22:47.24balrog-kunpavelm: yes, there are more than one ways,
22:47.34balrog-kunyou can use openmoko itself to build one
22:47.43pavelmbalrog: Get monotone/oo/bitbake working is not the easy way.
22:47.47ElrondAhh. ;)
22:47.51pavelmbalrog: I have nightmares from day I tried that.
22:48.16balrog-kunor you can use scratchbos or crossdev or crosstool, or just the sources for binutils and gcc and compile them (that's what i do)
22:48.25balrog-kunscratchbox
22:48.36pavelm...is latest scratchbox known to work?
22:48.37buzno word yet on p1.5 cpu right?
22:48.47balrog-kuni don't know with openmoko,
22:48.56balrog-kunbut static binaries for practiacally anything should work
22:49.02pavelm...because I have scratchbox here -- just old one -- and it seems to be broken.
22:49.15pavelmbalrog: that's what I thought. Let me try again.
22:49.23balrog-kunhave you tried linking with -static?
22:50.55pavelmbalrog: I believe I  tried that; will retry with hello world.
22:51.28balrog-kunokay
22:51.36balrog-kunif you run it and it just hangs without outputting anything, that often means ABI mismatch
22:56.22ucordescan i expect a moko phone end of march?
22:56.53SpeedEvilThat is the latest information.
22:56.56balrog-kunyou can probably expect a moko device
22:57.05balrog-kunit's not known if it'll be usable as a phone by then
22:57.12Elronducordes - Don't hold your breath though.
22:57.12SpeedEvilIt may not actually work very well as a phone.
22:57.41ElrondIs scratchbox2 the current thing?
22:57.41ucordesSpeedEvil: :O
22:58.01ucordesSpeedEvil: will i be able to make phone calls with it and write short messages?
22:58.08SpeedEvilMaybe.
22:58.14pavelmbalrog: Not even hello world works :-(
22:58.16SpeedEvilThe software is being developed.
22:58.27SpeedEvilHopefully, yes. If not, it should work 'shortly'.
22:58.36pavelmpavel@amd:~/sf/tui$ echo 'void main(void) { printf("Hello world\n"); }' > hello.c
22:58.38pavelmpavel@amd:~/sf/tui$ /scratchbox/compilers/arm-gcc-3.3.4-glibc-2.3.2/bin/arm-linux-gc
22:58.38pavelmarm-linux-gcc        arm-linux-gcc-3.3.4  arm-linux-gcov
22:58.38pavelmarm-linux-gcc-3.3    arm-linux-gccbug
22:58.38pavelmpavel@amd:~/sf/tui$ /scratchbox/compilers/arm-gcc-3.3.4-glibc-2.3.2/bin/arm-linux-gcc hello.c -o hello -static
22:58.38pavelmhello.c: In function `main':
22:58.39Elronducordes - As we talk, people try to get this code created.
22:58.40pavelmhello.c:1: warning: return type of `main' is not `int'
22:58.42pavelmpavel@amd:~/sf/tui$
22:58.47pavelmroot@fic-gta01:~$ ./hello
22:58.48pavelmIllegal instruction
22:59.03SpeedEvilOMG - instruction police!
22:59.05ucordesElrond: hurry up my friends :)
22:59.07SpeedEvil:(
22:59.08ucordesi need your code
22:59.11ucordes<PROTECTED>
22:59.38Elronducordes - Code is in s*version.
22:59.40ucordesgot any weapons or drugs? its the code police arriving
22:59.57balrog-kunpavelm: :(
23:00.19Elronducordes - I have my brain. ;-)
23:00.30*** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-47160ace00cc82d4)
23:01.20ucordesElrond: it may be a terrible weapon for your competitors
23:01.50ElrondDon't know, what the code police thinks. ;)
23:02.00*** join/#openmoko Lemmih (n=lemmih@13.22.235.85.dk-obr.res.sta.perspektivbredband.net)
23:02.41*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z7d7d.z.pppool.de)
23:02.58*** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de)
23:03.10pavelmbalrog: Could you possibly mail me some simple executable at pavel @ ucw.cz ?
23:03.35balrog-kunmhm
23:03.49balrog-kunlemme look for a good one
23:04.22*** join/#openmoko mitsuhiko (n=nblackbi@hammett.srv.pocoo.org)
23:05.20ElrondSo Mike messed up Sean's thread?
23:05.50rwhitbyMike should take his marbles and go home.
23:06.25rwhitbypavelm: use "rm_work" to reduce the space requirements for OE.  See the tips section on the MokoMakefile wiki page.
23:06.27*** join/#openmoko denis__ (n=denis@p54928371.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:07.18balrog-kunpavelm: sent out, it's a small busybox
23:07.32balrog-kunno EABI, statically linked
23:08.32*** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54928663.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:08.45CoreDump|homehi
23:08.56rwhitbyhey CoreDump|home
23:09.21*** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-005.eplus-online.de)
23:10.32pavelmbalrog: It seems to work, thanks a lot. So I guess I should just install latest scratchbox?
23:11.10balrog-kunyes scratchbox should work
23:11.13*** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net)
23:12.28ElrondIs scratchbox the "simple, easy way to get a cross toolchain up and running" or is there something simpler?  (Heh, I don't want to sit there a day just to get a toolchain up. Nor do I want to waste 300MB just for that)
23:12.28*** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net)
23:14.54balrog-kunElrond: afaik it's rather simple, i've never installed it
23:15.33balrog-kunbut, it may be that only static executables work on openmoko, built from scratchbox
23:15.59ElrondHuh.
23:16.09balrog-kuncrosstool si also simple, btu scratchbox can be installed from binaries
23:17.00*** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-238-55.sa.bigpond.net.au)
23:17.03*** part/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34)
23:17.12*** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com)
23:17.16ElrondAhh.
23:17.22ucordeshave a good time people and keep up the good work!
23:19.10ElrondBye ucordes.
23:21.54ElrondIs it only me, or is Mike just not getting it?
23:22.12SpeedEvilHe's really from Apple.
23:22.48ElrondOkay, that explains something. But still no excuse. ;o)
23:23.35MacNorthreminds me about a recent google tech talk with two devs from the svn project
23:23.40ElrondSomeone should thank all the people who try to help him anyway.  Just I have no ideas on the right words for that.
23:27.03mjr"You're well-meaning answers have been noted with gratitude by  people other than the original poster; in the future you would be as well adviced to direct your energies in helping people who don't fight it all the way kicking and screaming, though"?
23:27.15mjrYour
23:27.24mjrI can't believe I made that mistake
23:27.40MacNorthits no problem ;)
23:27.58mjrindicates the necessity for horizontalisation
23:29.12MacNorthHow Open Source Projects Survive Poisonous People: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4216011961522818645
23:30.20ElrondMacNorth - Is there a summary somewhere in text? Most of my boxes don't like video. ;)
23:31.14MacNorthsummary on the page: Every open source project runs into people who are selfish, uncooperative, and  ... all » disrespectful. These people can silently poison the atmosphere of a happy developer community. Come learn how to identify these people and peacefully de-fuse them before they derail your project. Told through a series of (often amusing) real-life anecdotes and experiences.
23:32.00MacNorthBen Collins-Sussman and Brian Fitzpatrick speaking
23:32.23ElrondHmm. I would have needed that 6 years ago.
23:32.29balrog-kuni've seen it in a pdf somewhere a couple of months ago, i don't know if it's the same presentation
23:32.47MacNorthcould be, they mentioned that they've given it a few times
23:33.42LarstiQthe pdf was mostly obvious hints, should watch the video
23:33.55balrog-kundownloading it now :)
23:34.07MacNorthhere's a more detailed summary, Elrond: http://www.oreillynet.com/conferences/blog/2006/07/oscon_how_open_source_projects.html
23:34.38*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net)
23:34.52rwhitbyElrond: you could use scratchbox to compile OM apps, yes.  But please don't ask for support when they don't work.  We (the developers) need to focus on fixing real bugs, not on fixing toolchains other than the one that the core OM developers are using.
23:35.49timotimoAnyone around who can help me with a build problem? I'm trying to build OpenMoko to run on top of Xoo but am getting a build error when trying to build openmoko-libs.
23:36.04ElrondMacNorth - I'll try to get video installed on my box at work. ;)
23:36.26rwhitbytimotimo: pastebin your full log of the failure.
23:36.30*** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil_ (n=kjdjkj@mauve.plus.com)
23:36.36timotimoIt's trying to fetch revision 1330, but the current version on downloads.openmoko.org is 1149.
23:38.21Elrondrwhitby - So for support, I'm supposed to go through the whole OE/bitbake/etc hoops?
23:39.12rwhitbyElrond: it's up to you - you can either use the officially supported toolchain, or you can use your own toolchain and support it yourself.  You cannot seriously expect others to support a toolchain that is not the official toolchain, can you?
23:39.44rwhitby~pastebin
23:39.57apti guess pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try  http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites, or dpaste.com is a very nice pastebin as well
23:40.31rwhitbydo *not* paste it to IRC, use pastebin and then paste *just* the URL it gives you.
23:40.37Elrondrwhitby - No I can't. :-)  But a statement on the lines of "this-toolchain is lean, mean, and reportedly works for people. We don't support it. Full Stop." would be nice. :-)
23:40.55Elrondrwhitby - Don't get me wrong. I do understand your point fully.
23:41.03timotimopastebin. got it. thanks.
23:41.07ElrondI'm NOT complaining.
23:41.15DesktopMaa debian package would be fun fucking tastic :P
23:41.21*** part/#openmoko AndrewB (n=andy@tuxhacker/pdpc.supporter.student.AndrewB)
23:41.40rwhitbyDesktopMa: what if you don't use Debian?
23:42.03DesktopMathen you do it manualle
23:42.03DesktopMay
23:42.08DesktopMalike any other linux app :P
23:42.49MacNorthheh _a_ deb package....  just think how many would be made for all things OM
23:43.02rwhitbyI just don't want to see the attention of the core developers (or the third-party developers who know about toolchains) being diverted from keeping one official toolchain working (which is not an easy job in itself) and fixing real bugs.
23:43.32*** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com)
23:43.59rwhitbyAnd I especially don't like seeing blog entries that seem to be blaming OpenMoko because applications built with a different toolchain don't work on OpenMoko.
23:44.32*** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org)
23:45.52timotimorwhitby: build error posted at <http://pastebin.ca/393991>.
23:46.06rwhitby(but that's just my opinion, I don't want to stifle innovation if someone comes up with a perfect replacement for the official build system that works automatically for *everyone* and never has any problems ...)
23:46.20CoreDump|homerwhitby: yeah lol. What's up with that? If you use a custom tool-chain be prepared for major breakage. Nothing to see here, please move along
23:47.25ElrondCoreDump|home - Yeah. If I run xyz on non-supported base system, I have to expect issues.
23:47.36rwhitbymore than half the effort of an embedded development is getting the toolchain right.  when one works, you don't mess with it
23:47.48Elrond<rant> Unless I were Mike. ;o)) </rant>
23:48.14CoreDump|homeElrond: hehe
23:48.20CoreDump|homehe is kinda spamming the ML....
23:48.42DukeOfURLfor anyone dissatisfied with the core developer's efforts, please send me your phone.
23:48.47balrog-kuna gentoo overlay with all openmoko things would be great :)
23:49.14ElrondAnyway.
23:49.17ElrondNight people. :-)
23:49.29CoreDump|homen8 Elrond
23:49.31balrog-kunthere actually is an verlay with a lot of GPE in it, it may be not very difficult to add openmoko
23:49.49CoreDump|homeDukeOfURL: you'll have to pry it out of my dead cold hands =)
23:50.13DukeOfURLThen you're satisified...
23:50.21DukeOfURL?
23:50.39*** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p54928663.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)
23:50.39CoreDump|homeI got way more than I expected.
23:51.13CoreDump|homeNeo rocks.
23:51.18DukeOfURLwho is this "Mike"
23:51.34CoreDump|homeDukeOfURL: check the community ML...
23:51.45MacNorth'Crossroads' thread
23:51.59DukeOfURLoh, the guy who wanted an analysis of plans?
23:52.02rwhitbyCoreDump|home: did you see I got openocd working on the nas100d?
23:52.29CoreDump|homerwhitby: yeah I saw that. "Mobile flashing station" hehe very cool
23:52.31rwhitbyI now have a nice little portable wireless neo development system :-)
23:52.58CoreDump|homerwhitby: this is beyond geekdom ;)
23:52.58DukeOfURLI have the latest Cingular brochure here in front of me.  Questions?
23:52.59SpeedEvilbattery powered?
23:53.00rwhitbywill have to see if MokoMakefile builds on an ixp4xx as the host.
23:53.14*** join/#openmoko pavelm (n=pavel@gprs189-60.eurotel.cz)
23:53.23rwhitbySpeedEvil: when I move it to the NSLU2, it can be powered by 4 AA batteries.
23:53.44MacNorth<Mike>I have one, DukeOfURL: which one is guaranteed to work so i don't have to think?</Mike
23:54.18pavelmhuh, seems like my connection was silently closed due to timeout?
23:54.21pavelmbalrog: does scratchbox-toolchain-arm-gcc4.1-uclibc20061004 sound like right thing
23:54.21pavelm+to install?
23:55.33balrog-kunpavelm: openmoko uses glibc - for static binaries that doesn't mtter (uclibc will be even better), for dynamic linking you need a glibc based toolchain
23:56.27DukeOfURLMacNorth:  please explain what guarantees we have in life.  As a developer, what guarantees do you have?
23:56.56MacNorthi guarantee that i write bugs and that someday my bugs will outlive me :)
23:57.08LarstiQDukeOfURL: are you an official OM spokesperson? </mike>
23:57.22LarstiQMacNorth: heh
23:57.44pavelmbalrog: Okay, I guess I'll use static linking for now.
23:57.52DukeOfURLNo, I'm just sitting here in my kitchen wishing I had a platform to develop on.
23:58.22SpeedEvilTable?
23:58.30DukeOfURLCOUNTER
23:58.35pavelmBTW, are there any news of updated firmware? Like some that could make calls?
23:58.41MacNortha bench is way better
23:58.42DukeOfURLSorry, kitchen counter
23:58.55Elrondcounter
23:58.55alorilhttp://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973 P1: 2 weeks, 4 days 12:01:04 (18.501 +-7.0 days) (534)
23:58.56pavelmduke: you can buy siemens sx1 in nearest used-phones-shop for ~$100
23:59.08CoreDump|homepavelm: the original firmware could already make calls. Via manually usign AT commands =)
23:59.32pavelmcoredump: not even that worked.

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