| 00:02.23 | alphaone | Elrond: xev is on the neo :-) |
| 00:03.41 | Shoragan | alphaone xev? |
| 00:03.53 | Psi_ | ok, i had to up the voltage on my vcr remote to 3.2v to get the led to actually work, hehe, but at 10cm a white led 9000mcd, will control a VCR! |
| 00:03.54 | alphaone | It's 2 to 3 pixels in x and 4 to 6 in y |
| 00:04.21 | Psi_ | so.. it might work |
| 00:04.30 | alphaone | Shoragan: xev - print contents of X events |
| 00:04.34 | Shoragan | ah |
| 00:04.45 | alphaone | Psi_: Hehe :-) |
| 00:05.36 | Psi_ | i tried a tube of rolled up paper to block out all other light to see if i could get more range than 10cm, but it didnt change anything |
| 00:06.14 | Elrond | Psi_ - The problem in the neo case is: There are lots of layers. And I don't know, if they like IR. |
| 00:06.31 | cworth | That's strange, ssh to root@<usb address of neo1973> is not accepting an empty password. :-( |
| 00:07.00 | alphaone | cworth: You sure it is the neo? |
| 00:07.10 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@CPE000ce54d00d0-CM0011ae92b8aa.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 00:07.17 | *** join/#openmoko jcos (n=jonathan@c-71-196-80-23.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 00:07.19 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1291 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (mmc-fixes.patch series): (log message trimmed) |
| 00:07.19 | CIA-7 | openmoko: include/asm-arm/arch-s3c24x0/regs-sdi.h (S3C2410_SDIDCON_BLKNUM_MASK): typo, |
| 00:07.19 | CIA-7 | openmoko: should be S3C2410_SDIDCNT_BLKNUM_MASK |
| 00:07.19 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/mmc.c (mmc_block_read): use S3C2410_SDIDCON_BLKNUM instead |
| 00:07.19 | CIA-7 | openmoko: of bogus S3C2410_SDIDCON_BLKNUM_MASK |
| 00:07.22 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/mmc.c (mmc_block_read): check SDIDSTA after each FIFO read |
| 00:07.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: and clear any pending errors |
| 00:07.30 | cworth | alphaone: It'd be hard to have any other ssh daemon listening on usb here... |
| 00:07.35 | alphaone | I tried sshing in to my laptop a few times |
| 00:07.53 | Psi_ | led has to be bright enough tho, i lowered the voltage until it was dim and it didnt work |
| 00:08.14 | Psi_ | that will be the question, is the neo backlight bright enough |
| 00:08.16 | alphaone | cworth: Sometimes I accidentally take my notebook usb0 address instead of the Neo one |
| 00:08.44 | cworth | alphaone: The password prompt stopped responding when I powered down the neo, so I think I've got the right address. |
| 00:08.51 | alphaone | Hmm |
| 00:09.36 | *** part/#openmoko jcos (n=jonathan@c-71-196-80-23.hsd1.fl.comcast.net) |
| 00:09.39 | Elrond | cworth - Check the sshd_config on the neo. Maybe it has hardcoded 192.168.0.200 as the "let in root only from there" adress. |
| 00:10.55 | alphaone | Elrond: Shouldn't be. First thing I did was change the IP to 192.168.1.2 |
| 00:11.01 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1292 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/mmc-fixes.patch: |
| 00:11.01 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/mmc.c (mmc_init): added SD CID extraction besides MMC CID |
| 00:11.01 | CIA-7 | openmoko: version |
| 00:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.1.19) |
| 00:11.22 | Elrond | alphaone - Well, I have things like that in my sshd_config. ;) |
| 00:11.39 | Elrond | Ahh. Mixed up something. |
| 00:11.56 | Elrond | cworth - But you can ssh out of the neo? |
| 00:12.09 | cworth | alphaone: OK. I'm an idiot... I was trying to ssh back to my laptop.. :-P |
| 00:12.19 | Elrond | *lol* |
| 00:12.53 | alphaone | cworth: Right. If you power down the Neo usb0 disappears so the prompt hangs :-) |
| 00:13.09 | cworth | alphaone: Yes, it all makes sense, of course. :-) |
| 00:13.17 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1293 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/mmc-fixes.patch: |
| 00:13.17 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/mmc.c (mmc_bread): don't need to cast "dst" anymore when |
| 00:13.17 | CIA-7 | openmoko: passing to mmc_read (was missing in earlier commit) |
| 00:13.17 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cpu/arm920t/s3c24x0/mmc.c (mmc_init): added casts to suppress warnings when |
| 00:13.17 | CIA-7 | openmoko: using an "unsigned char *" buffer in sprintf |
| 00:13.29 | *** join/#openmoko elliotf (n=elliotf@h-74-1-186-114.snfccasy.covad.net) |
| 00:13.31 | alphaone | cworth: It always does in some weird way :-) |
| 00:13.35 | cworth | Anyway, I'm glad to finally have a usable prompt on this device. |
| 00:14.47 | Elrond | cworth - You mean except "on screen keyboard and rxvt"? ;o) |
| 00:15.03 | Elrond | (is that usable at all?) |
| 00:15.34 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: It's painful, but yeah |
| 00:15.48 | Elrond | Is it worse than T9? |
| 00:15.56 | cjb | Hm. Does gcc have any support for program-guided optimization? |
| 00:16.10 | alphaone | The keyboard seems a bit broken, too |
| 00:16.17 | CoreDump|home | Elrond: oh yes (IMO) |
| 00:16.37 | Elrond | cjb - You can hint it at the "most likely value" for if (....), so it can do branch expectation stuff. |
| 00:16.53 | alphaone | If you do anything more than click on a key it seems as if the stroke interpreter is taking the input |
| 00:17.05 | Elrond | cjb - And prefix variables with "register"... but I think, it will ignore that mostly. |
| 00:17.10 | cworth | Elrond: I've never gotten anything decent from an on-screen keyboard, (particularly when trying to drive a shell). |
| 00:17.16 | alphaone | i.e. press 'e' and move the stylus to the left -> Key gets deleted |
| 00:17.26 | alphaone | move it down and it adds an enter |
| 00:17.34 | cjb | Elrond: yeah, register mostly shouldn't be used anymore. PGO is something very different to these, though. |
| 00:17.36 | cworth | Elrond: But back when I did hacking on the ipaq, I did get to where I could use character recognition for shell input quite comfortably. |
| 00:18.19 | cworth | Elrond: So I'll have to start dusting off myold xstroke code to get back to that... |
| 00:18.41 | Elrond | Ahh. :-) |
| 00:18.58 | Elrond | alphaone - Can the stroke stuff be disabled? |
| 00:19.51 | Elrond | ~change 300 eur to usd |
| 00:21.23 | Elrond | alphaone - BTW: Who owns the other two Neos? |
| 00:22.07 | *** join/#openmoko ryd (n=jens@nons.de) |
| 00:22.53 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.145.59) |
| 00:24.00 | alphaone | Elrond: I'm not sure. I don't think it is intended behavior since there is a seperate stroke recognition mode |
| 00:24.23 | alphaone | The other Neos belong to stefan_schmidt and Shoragan |
| 00:24.33 | Elrond | Ahh. :-) |
| 00:25.04 | Elrond | I remember stefan_schmidt being neary Braunschweig, right? |
| 00:25.06 | zecke | cworth: hehe and revive xstroke.org? |
| 00:25.22 | cworth | zecke: Nah, that was a mistake. |
| 00:25.40 | cworth | zecke: But I can put up similar content at cworth.org/xstroke instead. |
| 00:25.48 | zecke | hehe, I just remembered the struggle finding the source after it went offline |
| 00:26.14 | cworth | zecke: Yeah, sorry about that. |
| 00:26.35 | Elrond | Any p0 owner near FFM? |
| 00:27.10 | cworth | zecke: My employer ended up owning it, (not that they would have prevente me from buying it back, but I learned that a separate domain is a lot of hassle with little benefit). |
| 00:27.38 | zecke | cworth: right, understandable |
| 00:29.21 | *** join/#openmoko vrt (n=vrt@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 00:31.19 | alphaone | Elrond: Right, we're all going to college there |
| 00:31.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1294 10/developers/werner/TODO: |
| 00:31.52 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Cleanup and update. Removed "items done" list, since it just gets confusing. |
| 00:31.52 | CIA-7 | openmoko: It's in SVN anyway :-) |
| 00:31.55 | alphaone | Elrond: FFM? |
| 00:32.29 | Elrond | alphaone - "Frankfurt am Main". |
| 00:32.47 | Elrond | alphaone - FFM is the usual shortcut for it. |
| 00:32.55 | alphaone | Elrond: Ah |
| 00:33.26 | Elrond | Put "FFM Hbf" into reiseauskunft.bahn.de, and it knows, what you want. |
| 00:33.26 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: mickey|austria is from FFM :) |
| 00:34.08 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Ahh. :-) But he's probably "on the road" forever now. ;) |
| 00:34.36 | Elrond | Austria... I need to go there again. :-) |
| 00:35.18 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Hopefully he back from vacation soon to help getting openmoko running |
| 00:36.03 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - You any idea, wether he Will be in FFM then? |
| 00:36.25 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: no, I would guess next week. |
| 00:38.06 | Elrond | Anyway. I should go to bed. Work tomorrow. ;) |
| 00:38.34 | stefan_schmidt | night Elrond |
| 00:38.46 | alphaone | Night |
| 00:39.45 | Elrond | Night stefan_schmidt and alphaone |
| 00:44.38 | *** part/#openmoko antenagora_study (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 00:46.45 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 00:49.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1295 10/trunk/oe/packages/upstart/ (files/ files/upstart-0.3.5-pwrokfail.patch upstart_0.3.5.bb): |
| 00:49.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * add patch for SIGPWR support |
| 00:49.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * add --enable-compat to configure flags |
| 00:52.47 | alphaone | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:54.01 | cjb | yeah, batteries are usually exothermic. |
| 00:54.05 | cjb | uh. endothermic. |
| 00:56.42 | alphaone | It doesn't feel that hot |
| 01:02.32 | cworth | Hmm... I'm trying to follow the Manually_using_GSM instructions, but when I connect to the UART I get a fairly steady stream of ERROR, ERROR, ERROR, OK, (repeated over and over). |
| 01:05.46 | cworth | Oh, maybe that was me having forgotten to reduce the loglevel, (I had done it earlier, but probably rebooted again and forgot to do it again). |
| 01:05.57 | cworth | Yes, much better now. |
| 01:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@mnc02.mei.co.jp) |
| 01:08.01 | alphaone | cworth: Can you please do cat /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/battemp on your device? |
| 01:08.26 | cworth | alphaone: 50 |
| 01:08.30 | alphaone | I think it could be related to the charging problem |
| 01:08.31 | alphaone | Ah |
| 01:09.00 | alphaone | Could someone without the problem cat the batterytemperature reported? |
| 01:09.03 | cworth | alphaone: Ah, the overtemp protection could be kicking in with a misreported temperature you think? |
| 01:09.19 | alphaone | cworth: I remember reading something about temperature charge safeguards |
| 01:09.23 | alphaone | jup |
| 01:09.32 | alphaone | I'm adding it to bugzilla now |
| 01:10.05 | cworth | Where can I ask the kernel what it knows about total battery charge? |
| 01:10.26 | cworth | Does anyone know if the following means I'm supposed to substitute some data: |
| 01:10.28 | cworth | AT+CPIN="...." |
| 01:10.31 | cworth | and if so, what? |
| 01:10.47 | alphaone | cworth: apm |
| 01:10.54 | alphaone | No other way I know of |
| 01:11.09 | alphaone | Doesn't seem to be exported in /sys |
| 01:11.20 | cworth | alphaone: This? |
| 01:11.21 | cworth | $ cat /proc/apm |
| 01:11.22 | cworth | 1.13 1.2 0x02 0x01 0x03 0x08 -1% -1 ? |
| 01:11.25 | alphaone | cworth: The PIN you enter |
| 01:11.41 | alphaone | cworth: -1% means fully charged |
| 01:12.19 | jipi | counter |
| 01:12.19 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review P1: 3 weeks, 2 days 10:47:40 (23.450 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (506) |
| 01:12.24 | cworth | alphaone: I'm not aware of any PIN associated with my phone/sim. Could that be optional? Or is it something I need to learn from my cellular provider? |
| 01:12.40 | alphaone | Doesn't seem to properly report battery capacity when charging |
| 01:12.51 | alphaone | cworth: Then just skip that |
| 01:13.12 | cworth | alphaone: Cool. |
| 01:13.18 | cworth | Yeah, just got "RING". Very nice. |
| 01:14.10 | alphaone | cworth: Yeah :-) |
| 01:15.12 | cworth | Though, I'm not having as much luck with dialing out... |
| 01:15.56 | alphaone | cworth: ATD <no>; |
| 01:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko jick (n=jick@222.92.90.170) |
| 01:16.36 | alphaone | ATD <no> without semicolon is data call iirc |
| 01:16.51 | cworth | Ah, I re-ran through the REGISTRATION steps and it worked this time. Very cool. |
| 01:17.25 | cworth | Or maybe it was a missing ATH or something, (a fairly opaque state machine I'm driving here...). |
| 01:18.33 | alphaone | Heh |
| 01:19.14 | cworth | alphaone: Anyway, this is fun. I'll have to come back to play more later. |
| 01:19.25 | CoreDump|home | !praise editable CMDLINE |
| 01:19.37 | alphaone | cworth: Yeah. Too bad SMS is so complicated |
| 01:21.50 | wansti | just got home |
| 01:22.00 | alphaone | wansti: wb |
| 01:22.08 | wansti | glad you like the ringtone :-) |
| 01:22.27 | wansti | of course you can cite me on the ML, Elrond |
| 01:23.18 | alphaone | wansti: Elrond went to bed an hour ago |
| 01:23.54 | CoreDump|home | hmm to update u-boot or not to update |
| 01:23.57 | wansti | okay, i'll catch him tomorrow then |
| 01:24.29 | alphaone | CoreDump|home: :-) |
| 01:24.30 | stefan_schmidt | CoreDump|home: Wait until tomorrow. Werner has perhaps some more fixes. |
| 01:24.41 | CoreDump|home | stefan_schmidt: =) |
| 01:25.36 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 01:25.52 | stefan_schmidt | Seems we have our official ringtone already. ;) |
| 01:25.58 | CoreDump|home | indeed |
| 01:26.19 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: Like to add a pointer to your files into bug #199? |
| 01:26.27 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 01:26.45 | wansti | stefan_schmidt: sure |
| 01:26.51 | stefan_schmidt | hi LetoTo, how is going? |
| 01:27.17 | LetoTo | hey |
| 01:27.24 | LetoTo | been too busy with work :P |
| 01:27.33 | LetoTo | damn python bugs |
| 01:27.58 | stefan_schmidt | LetoTo: Python and bugs, how can that be. ;) |
| 01:29.33 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 01:30.35 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 01:31.33 | *** join/#openmoko Readon (n=xydarche@218.194.60.208) |
| 01:32.24 | stefan_schmidt | Anybody running into this with a fresh setup? |
| 01:32.26 | stefan_schmidt | NOTE: package gta01-kernel-2.6-moko7-r1_0_200703090124: task do_fetch: started |
| 01:32.26 | stefan_schmidt | NOTE: Update svn://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel;module=patches;proto=http |
| 01:32.26 | stefan_schmidt | svn: REPORT request failed on '/!svn/vcc/default' |
| 01:34.19 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Yeah |
| 01:34.34 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: You run into it? |
| 01:34.44 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: remove the $SOURCES/svn/gta01-kernel dir |
| 01:35.00 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Somehow the svn update does not work |
| 01:35.15 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: ok |
| 01:37.43 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Did it work? |
| 01:37.47 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: works like a charm, thanks |
| 01:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z7b78.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:38.40 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: np |
| 01:42.32 | wansti | stefan_schmidt: done: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=199 |
| 01:42.51 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: cool |
| 01:51.29 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@203-206-183-196.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:58.12 | wansti | good night... see you guys tomorrow |
| 01:59.07 | *** part/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 01:59.35 | alphaone | good night |
| 01:59.38 | alphaone | Wow |
| 02:00.01 | alphaone | mikmod just segfaulted and then the phone shut down |
| 02:00.13 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1296 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/callbacks.c: |
| 02:00.13 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Rearrange the New Folder and Folder Rename dialog window's button |
| 02:00.13 | CIA-7 | openmoko: position. |
| 02:00.19 | alphaone | Ah, I see |
| 02:00.25 | alphaone | Battery is too low |
| 02:04.14 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:05.13 | alphaone | So the charger problem persists |
| 02:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 02:09.06 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.145.176) |
| 02:12.39 | cjb | alphaone: which problem? |
| 02:14.22 | *** join/#openmoko slomo_ (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 02:15.06 | alphaone | cjb: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=212 |
| 02:17.02 | cjb | Think I'm seeing the same thing. people.openezx.org seems down, btw. |
| 02:19.37 | LetoTo | cjb: our channels intersect eh? :) |
| 02:19.48 | cjb | Yup. |
| 02:21.15 | alphaone | cjb: Do you have ipv6 connectivity? |
| 02:21.45 | cjb | alphaone: I do on a nearby OLPC. |
| 02:22.10 | alphaone | cjb: That's where people.openezx.org is down? |
| 02:22.28 | cjb | No. |
| 02:22.43 | cjb | Hm, possibly. Moment. |
| 02:23.11 | alphaone | cjb: openezx.org has ipv6 addresses in DNS but they currently are not configures on the actual machines. |
| 02:23.12 | cjb | hah! my desktop stole an IPv6 lease while I wasn't looking. |
| 02:23.17 | cjb | :) |
| 02:23.19 | alphaone | :-) |
| 02:23.56 | alphaone | I pinged LaF0rge about it a while ago but I guess he is too busy atm... |
| 02:27.15 | *** join/#openmoko dirakx (n=judith@200.58.198.4) |
| 02:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby-away (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 02:52.02 | stefan_schmidt | *yawn* time to slep. cu later |
| 02:52.50 | alphaone | Night stefan_schmidt |
| 02:54.34 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: still tgere? |
| 02:54.41 | alphaone | s/g/h/ |
| 02:54.48 | stefan_schmidt | jup |
| 02:55.00 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: for a moment |
| 02:55.27 | alphaone | could you please cat /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/battemp ? |
| 02:55.55 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: ok, taks a moment. I need to turn on the phone again |
| 02:56.01 | alphaone | thanks |
| 02:56.40 | alphaone | and it would be great to see if you run into the same problems if the battery is empty |
| 02:57.11 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: I or Shoragan can recharge it if you have the same problem |
| 02:57.47 | rwhitby | cworth: any mokomakefile problems? |
| 02:58.01 | cworth | rwhitby: It seems to be running fine now. I'll definitely let you know if I get stuck. |
| 02:58.15 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: hmm, I like to have it working for the next days. Already enough hassle with other things. Can't you test it with the one from Shoragan? |
| 02:58.40 | *** join/#openmoko tango__ (n=tango@208.99.202.201) |
| 02:58.41 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: I will |
| 02:59.42 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: root@fic-gta01:~$ cat /sys/bus/i2c/devices/0-0008/battemp |
| 02:59.42 | stefan_schmidt | 46 |
| 02:59.50 | alphaone | hmm |
| 03:00.14 | cworth | rwhitby: Hmm.. I hit a problem. After: |
| 03:00.19 | cworth | wget -c -O OE.mtn.bz2 http://www.openembedded.org/snapshots/OE.mtn.bz2 |
| 03:00.32 | cworth | Next I see: |
| 03:00.34 | cworth | mtn: misuse: database /hda3/moko/OE.mtn is laid out according to an old schema |
| 03:00.56 | rwhitby | yeah, you need to manually upgrade, cause OE distributes a 0.32 database |
| 03:00.59 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 03:01.11 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 03:01.15 | rwhitby | does it tell you how to do that? |
| 03:01.26 | alphaone | I would have thought the temperature around 30 ° under normal conditions |
| 03:01.41 | cworth | rwhitby: I guess I'm still confused then. I ran into problems with an old monotone, (slow as to be unusable), and now problems with a new monotone. |
| 03:01.43 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Well anyways thanks and good night |
| 03:01.56 | cworth | rwhitby: It says this: |
| 03:01.58 | cworth | mtn: misuse: try 'mtn db migrate' to upgrade |
| 03:01.58 | cworth | mtn: misuse: (this is irreversible; you may want to make a backup copy first) |
| 03:01.58 | cworth | make: *** [setup-mtn] Error 1 |
| 03:02.02 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: It stays at 46 here. night |
| 03:02.15 | cworth | rwhitby: But if that is expected, shouldn't the Makefile just do that? |
| 03:02.21 | rwhitby | right - you need to upgrade the database from 0.32 format (which OE does the snapshot for) to 0.33 format (which you have) |
| 03:02.34 | rwhitby | cworth: the procedure changes every version - see the UPGRADE file on the monotone site |
| 03:02.42 | cjb | hm. I wonder if there's a way to upgrade u-boot without using "nand erase u-boot", which isn't working for me 'cause my u-boot doesn't understand nand partitions/ |
| 03:02.44 | cjb | . |
| 03:03.21 | rwhitby | alphaone: I get 48 for battemp. |
| 03:03.30 | cworth | rwhitby: Well "mtn db migrate" doesn't work. What's the command I really want? |
| 03:03.55 | rwhitby | http://monotone.ca/UPGRADE |
| 03:03.58 | cjb | cworth: someone has to use monotone :) |
| 03:04.23 | rwhitby | cworth: "mtn -d OE.mtn db migrate" ? |
| 03:04.41 | alphaone | I'm just baffled that the sample at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Kernel#Battery_temperature reads 25 |
| 03:04.55 | cworth | rwhitby: closer? |
| 03:04.57 | cworth | $ mtn -d OE.mtn migrate |
| 03:04.58 | cworth | mtn: misuse: workspace required but not found |
| 03:05.11 | rwhitby | cworth: you missed the 'db' |
| 03:05.45 | cworth | rwhitby: Oh, whoops. Thanks. |
| 03:06.18 | rwhitby | I guess I can put that command in there for the case where the exact versioned file is not found. |
| 03:06.31 | rwhitby | (since that's likely to be 0.32->0.33 right now) |
| 03:08.29 | cworth | rwhitby: Sure, and if you wanted to be really safe you could version-check mtn first. |
| 03:08.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r49 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added a db migrate step after the mtn database download, just in case. |
| 03:08.59 | alphaone | Okay, my Neo is charging again. Night all |
| 03:09.46 | rwhitby | cworth: that should cover 95% of the cases (since OE distributes the correct db format for 0.31 back to 0.27 I think) |
| 03:10.10 | rwhitby | so it's really only the 0.25 and 0.33 cases which it needs to handle. |
| 03:10.26 | rwhitby | for 0.25, it will barf, but it couldn't have fixed it anyway, so they won't be any worse off. |
| 03:10.32 | rwhitby | for 0.33 it will magically work. |
| 03:17.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1297 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/src/matchbox-keyboard-ui.c: |
| 03:17.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: At the realsize mode, Write the keyboard width and height to |
| 03:17.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: the key_uwidth and key_uheight in the MBKeyboardUI. |
| 03:19.31 | cworth | rwhitby: cool, thanks |
| 03:20.23 | cworth | rwhitby: What am I missing without this: |
| 03:20.26 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:20.26 | cworth | NOTE: Psyco JIT Compiler (http://psyco.sf.net) not available. Install it to increase performance. |
| 03:21.02 | rwhitby | nothing much these days |
| 03:21.10 | rwhitby | it speeds up bitbake a bit |
| 03:21.15 | cworth | OK |
| 03:21.18 | rwhitby | used to be a lot, when bitbake was real slow. |
| 03:21.46 | jebba | psyco doesn't work on 64bit boxes, btw |
| 03:21.48 | *** part/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 03:22.26 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 03:24.19 | rwhitby | (via usbnet) |
| 03:28.57 | jebba | rwhitby, fwiw, at the moment i'm getting this: "svn: Failed to add directory 'trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim': object of the same name already exists" I blew out that dir, but the error persists. |
| 03:29.28 | rwhitby | jebba: I got that too, but blowing away that dir fixed it. |
| 03:29.46 | rwhitby | (dunno why the moko svn is doing that) |
| 03:32.03 | jebba | well, i just `rm -rf`d it again and it gives the same error. So you got lucky ;) |
| 03:32.47 | jebba | wait, me notes he didn't really blow out the correct path.... |
| 03:33.20 | jebba | ok, correction: blowing out that dir and now `make update` goes happily. |
| 03:33.32 | rwhitby | sweet |
| 03:33.32 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2) |
| 03:35.08 | *** join/#openmoko ping_tu (n=ping_tt2@61.185.246.242) |
| 03:36.35 | jebba | rwhitby, would you find any value in something that `while true ; do make update all ;done` ... and put the images or logs or whatever up on ftp? |
| 03:37.42 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1298 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): gsmd got the incoming status OK, so the previous timeout mechanism is no more needed. the incoming disconnect can be detected immediately now. |
| 03:38.31 | rwhitby | jebba: LaF0rge does that already |
| 03:38.43 | jebba | ah ok |
| 03:39.01 | rwhitby | on buildhost.openmoko.org |
| 03:39.24 | rwhitby | (I believe OM intends to do that officially and continuously) |
| 03:40.00 | aevin | rwhitby: yes, it seems like they planned to have it on downloads.openmoko.org |
| 03:40.15 | rwhitby | (buildhost-old.openmoko.org has the old releases before their build machine had a hardware problem) |
| 03:41.14 | rwhitby | (i.e. there hasn't be a snapshot or a release since the move to the new machine, but there are old releases and snapshots on buildhost-old) |
| 03:41.46 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 03:42.14 | jebba | rwhitby, there's images there (?): http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images |
| 03:43.08 | rwhitby | jebba: right - those are like "nightly builds", rather than known good snapshots or supported releases |
| 03:50.25 | peepsalot | does anyone know a resource on how touchpad handwriting recognition works? general algorithms, etc? |
| 03:51.22 | cjb | touchpad handwriting recognition? huh> |
| 03:51.24 | cjb | ? |
| 03:51.54 | cjb | you mean stylus, or just "recognise this bitmap as a set of characters" recognition? |
| 03:52.01 | peepsalot | the main input device on the neo is a touchpad. you could for example write a letter A, and some software woudlrecognize it, how does that work |
| 03:52.01 | cjb | people usually use either neural nets or spring models |
| 03:52.43 | cjb | http://yann.lecun.com/exdb/lenet/index.html is the best neural net I've seen |
| 03:53.57 | peepsalot | is that patented? |
| 03:54.11 | cjb | no, it's published. |
| 03:57.15 | gabaug | peepsalot: have you looked at the source for the current handwriting recognition? |
| 03:57.58 | peepsalot | gabaug, no i haven't. i wouldn't even know where to look |
| 03:58.16 | gabaug | I'd start at svn.openmoko.org |
| 03:58.46 | gabaug | though it might be a standard software package from OE or something, I don't know |
| 04:01.26 | gabaug | http://svnweb.openmoko.org/ rather |
| 04:03.13 | peepsalot | yeah, i still have no clue what package i am looking for |
| 04:04.21 | gabaug | it's a panel applet that launches/controls it |
| 04:04.25 | gabaug | I'm looking too |
| 04:04.54 | peepsalot | i wasn't even sure that it existed yet for openmoko |
| 04:05.10 | gabaug | it does |
| 04:05.15 | gabaug | it shipped w/ the phase0 phones |
| 04:05.25 | peepsalot | are you a p0 dev? |
| 04:05.32 | gabaug | yes |
| 04:05.37 | peepsalot | cool |
| 04:05.57 | peepsalot | does the handwriting recognition work well? |
| 04:06.39 | gabaug | yes, for most characters...I probably just need to read some documentation about some others |
| 04:07.13 | gabaug | there's definitely room for improvement though |
| 04:09.18 | gabaug | there is http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/ |
| 04:09.26 | gabaug | you can add that applet to your panel |
| 04:09.33 | *** join/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 04:09.42 | gabaug | and then it has a dropdown arrow that lets you change it to the handwriting recognition |
| 04:10.01 | gabaug | I'm still looking for the actual code for that though.. |
| 04:12.08 | peepsalot | what is this chordmaster? |
| 04:12.45 | peepsalot | eh, some kind of guitar thing, nm |
| 04:12.45 | gabaug | my guess is a tool for emitting/testing pitches/chords |
| 04:13.31 | peepsalot | for some reason i though chord might be another word for a handwritten pattern or something |
| 04:14.44 | *** part/#openmoko dirakx (n=judith@200.58.198.4) |
| 04:16.40 | peepsalot | i am wondering if there is something where a user can define there own patterns that would act as shortcuts |
| 04:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 04:20.12 | *** join/#openmoko T2 (n=tv@207.181.6.2) |
| 04:22.10 | peepsalot | gabaug, what did you mean by "spring models" do you have a link for an example of this? |
| 04:22.47 | gabaug | peepsalot: I don't think I said that...what do you mean? |
| 04:23.04 | peepsalot | whoops, that was cjb |
| 04:23.22 | gabaug | he probably meant phase1 |
| 04:23.51 | peepsalot | no, for pattern recognition: "people usually use either neural nets or spring models" |
| 04:24.38 | gabaug | peepsalot: this looks promising: http://svn.o-hand.com/view/matchbox/trunk/matchbox-stroke/ |
| 04:26.05 | gabaug | I'm pretty sure that's it |
| 04:26.18 | peepsalot | thanks a lot! |
| 04:26.23 | *** part/#openmoko hpa (n=hpa@c-67-180-238-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 04:26.27 | gabaug | peepsalot: sure |
| 04:26.32 | gabaug | I was curious too |
| 04:27.30 | gabaug | I think this is the applet/code that does the dropdown switcher I mentioned: http://svn.o-hand.com/view/matchbox/trunk/mb-applet-input-manager/ |
| 04:30.21 | cworth | rwhitby: Hmm... "make openmoko-devel-image" failed as follows: |
| 04:30.29 | cworth | | /bin/sh @MKINSTALLDIRS@ /hda3/moko/build/tmp/staging/i686-linux/share |
| 04:30.29 | cworth | | /bin/sh: @MKINSTALLDIRS@: No such file or directory |
| 04:30.29 | cworth | | make[3]: *** [install-data-yes] Error 127 |
| 04:30.37 | peepsalot | gabaug: what sort of things have you been working on since you got your p0? |
| 04:30.43 | cworth | | make[3]: Leaving directory `/hda3/moko/build/tmp/work/i686-linux/gettext-native-0.14.1-r4/gettext-0.14.1/gettext-runtime/po' |
| 04:32.49 | cworth | peepsalot: Ah, if it's xstroke, then I'm probably to blame for it. |
| 04:33.25 | cworth | peepsalot: The original xstroke engine I wrote, (no idea if it's changed since), was extremely simple, (much simpler than anything like neural networks or spring models). |
| 04:34.12 | cworth | peepsalot: All it did was qantize the sequence of input positions into a series of 9 locations on a 3x3 grid and then do regexp-based pattern matching on the resulting sequence. |
| 04:34.25 | cworth | It was really cheap, easy to code, and surprisingly effective. |
| 04:34.48 | peepsalot | interesting |
| 04:35.26 | cworth | peepsalot: The current interface running on the neo has some problems though compared to what I originally did for xstroke: |
| 04:35.45 | cworth | 1. It runs in a little bix instead of full-screen, (so it robs a bunch of space from the application of interest) |
| 04:36.16 | cworth | 2. The drawing of the stroke lags the stylus motion considerably---that introduces a serious limit on the maximum speed of character entry |
| 04:36.38 | cworth | peepsalot: Anyway, here's a paper I wrote about the stuff I did on xstroke: |
| 04:36.40 | cworth | http://cworth.org/~cworth/papers/xstroke/ |
| 04:41.16 | peepsalot | nice, cworth |
| 04:41.26 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@125-237-70-63.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 04:50.39 | peepsalot | do you know any resources about spring models used in recognition? when I search i just find physics simulators for games, etc. |
| 04:55.59 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2) |
| 04:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-222-90.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 05:04.45 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 05:14.31 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@mnc08.mei.co.jp) |
| 05:20.39 | cworth | peepsalot: Nope. I don't know anything about it. |
| 05:21.33 | cworth | peepsalot: You could probably find some general stuff about constructing feature vectors and computing vector distances, etc. |
| 05:26.11 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 05:41.12 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 05:46.39 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet_ (i=sixfeet@p5484DFC0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 05:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko jacobfan (n=jacob@221.223.223.94) |
| 05:49.19 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.8.162.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 05:53.33 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54952117.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:56.06 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1088840342.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 06:04.45 | *** join/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 06:04.52 | Psi_ | so... now that the P0 phones are out has anyone tried to answer the really important question??? How many frames per second do you get in DOOM2 ? |
| 06:05.19 | Elixir- | hehehe |
| 06:05.49 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56) |
| 06:06.08 | Psi_ | Or even TTYQuake? |
| 06:06.24 | Psi_ | id imagine that would be easer to get running |
| 06:06.46 | peepsalot | imagine a beowulf cluster of Neo's, communicating over bluetooth |
| 06:06.52 | peepsalot | :p |
| 06:11.23 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=hongtd@222.254.26.121) |
| 06:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 06:15.03 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 06:18.17 | aloril | Psi_: added that at [[Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review]] ? ;-) |
| 06:18.49 | Psi_ | you have or you are asking me too? |
| 06:19.36 | aloril | asking you (s/added/have you added/) |
| 06:21.29 | Psi_ | ive not added it |
| 06:21.48 | Psi_ | and the wiki annoys me, its quite hard to find stuff sometimes |
| 06:22.54 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-218-21.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 06:27.07 | Psi_ | feel free to add it |
| 06:35.40 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@h-67-101-114-106.snfccasy.covad.net) |
| 06:35.56 | jackey | where I can get a P1? |
| 06:36.11 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=law@mail.stiftadmont.at) |
| 06:41.56 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@feldconf.feld.cvut.cz) |
| 06:44.57 | *** join/#openmoko Kero (n=kero@89.98.218.127) |
| 06:47.08 | *** part/#openmoko SunZhiyong (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 06:48.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1299 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/ (5 files in 2 dirs): |
| 06:48.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Update configure.ac for send_signal_to_footer. |
| 06:48.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Update cb_frBtn_clicked to close the Rename Folder Window, shall we need |
| 06:48.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: a result dialog for success/fail? |
| 06:48.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Update cb_new_folder to close the New Folder Window. |
| 06:48.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Fix the message membership window bug by modify cb_mmitem_activate. |
| 06:51.18 | aloril | jackey: no where yet, not even preorder |
| 06:51.52 | aloril | jackey: subscribe to announce list to know when: http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/announce |
| 06:51.52 | jackey | how come someone has two p1 |
| 06:52.00 | xkr47 | GOOD MORNING EveryOne! |
| 06:52.08 | xkr47 | :) |
| 06:52.11 | aloril | p1? where? |
| 06:52.23 | xkr47 | jackey, can't be.. |
| 06:52.46 | rwhitby | jackey: please substantiate that claim. |
| 06:52.57 | jackey | i was talking to someone here before |
| 06:53.08 | xkr47 | please substantiate some fried egg with bacon for me pls! |
| 06:53.26 | jackey | haha |
| 06:53.37 | jackey | just try to get one Neo |
| 06:53.46 | jackey | poor guy i am |
| 06:54.07 | jackey | morning, it is 11PM in SF now |
| 06:54.25 | aloril | jackey: maybe you are talking about P0? |
| 06:54.33 | xkr47 | good for you! it's 8:54 am here and I intend to go by that timezone, mind you :) |
| 06:54.48 | aloril | (though core team could have test version of P1, who knows) |
| 06:55.18 | rwhitby | nope, not that we've heard (and we would hear) |
| 06:56.06 | jackey | i do not care, just want to get one |
| 06:56.17 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B9E9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 06:57.26 | aloril | jackey: get in line ;-) |
| 06:57.34 | aloril | counter |
| 06:57.34 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review P1: 3 weeks, 2 days 05:02:25 (23.210 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (507) |
| 06:57.40 | rwhitby | ~ugt |
| 06:57.41 | apt | well, ugt is Universial Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html |
| 06:59.08 | rob_w | good morning |
| 06:59.24 | tigert | morning :) |
| 07:00.16 | LetoTo | http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601103&sid=aBsMTK3Z3uiQ&refer=news |
| 07:01.28 | jackey | aloril, get in line for what? |
| 07:02.36 | jackey | neo running GPE? |
| 07:03.54 | aloril | jackey: figuratively, line waiting for P1 to appear ;-) |
| 07:05.22 | jackey | when when when , where where where |
| 07:05.22 | jackey | ：ï¼ï¼‰ |
| 07:05.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1300 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/ (callbacks.c main.c): Remove all window's title. |
| 07:06.08 | aloril | jackey: subscribe to announce mailing list (link above), when: my best guess currently based on mailing list mail is above counter |
| 07:06.46 | jackey | do you know neo is running GPE or not? |
| 07:06.55 | jackey | the UI looks really cool |
| 07:08.27 | aloril | faq |
| 07:08.27 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 07:09.09 | jackey | not very much about it |
| 07:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56) |
| 07:11.05 | aloril | you read about openmoko which is linked from faq? |
| 07:16.05 | *** join/#openmoko wiskyMike (n=shaweet@ip68-100-133-129.dc.dc.cox.net) |
| 07:17.40 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 07:21.08 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning1 (n=blueligh@222-155-154-246.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 07:21.11 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-41-113-236.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 07:24.42 | aevin | good morning. |
| 07:25.40 | aloril | morning aevin |
| 07:25.52 | aevin | aloril: have you been hacking all night? |
| 07:26.01 | aevin | +neo |
| 07:26.36 | aloril | no, I go sleeping early usually and awake early too |
| 07:27.10 | CM | I go to sleep late and get awakened early :-P |
| 07:29.54 | aevin | :-) |
| 07:30.45 | aevin | any news about how the frequency characteristics of the Neo1973 speakers are, or should I add it as an "Q" on the P0 review wiki page? |
| 07:31.30 | CM | wansti should know some since he's testing the ring signals and so |
| 07:31.40 | CM | But I haven't seen any specifications |
| 07:31.54 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:31.55 | CM | Add the Q :) |
| 07:32.10 | SpeedEvil | They should be fine from there ish to 15Khz or so. |
| 07:32.12 | aevin | i mean, i don't require scientific measureing, morely whether they're really treble-ish or acceptably low band etc. |
| 07:32.20 | aevin | SpeedEvil: okay. |
| 07:32.36 | aevin | i'll add a Q anyways, if someone wants to elaborate on that. |
| 07:32.37 | aevin | :) |
| 07:32.41 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 07:32.59 | SpeedEvil | Find a nice frequency sweep mp3 that someone can play and record |
| 07:35.59 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56) |
| 07:36.26 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 07:40.16 | aevin | SpeedEvil: i found some sweeps: http://www.dr-lex.34sp.com/macast/mp3test.html#Sweeps |
| 07:40.36 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485CB02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:50.32 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-38-49.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 07:52.15 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 07:54.25 | aevin | hmmm. the video bounty annouced at the community ML and old wiki doesn't count for the hardware refreshed Neo1973 (P1.5), do you think? |
| 07:54.29 | aevin | ;-) |
| 07:54.45 | aevin | *announced |
| 07:55.09 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.102.170) |
| 08:03.31 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 08:04.18 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:05.26 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@feldconf.feld.cvut.cz) |
| 08:06.18 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 08:10.54 | *** join/#openmoko xyrouz (n=xyrouz@85.82.20.142) |
| 08:17.37 | *** join/#openmoko jzs (n=king@cpe.atm2-0-10282.0x50a09aee.bynxx12.customer.tele.dk) |
| 08:21.17 | spikebik1 | counter |
| 08:21.18 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review P1: 3 weeks, 2 days 03:38:42 (23.152 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (508) |
| 08:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko elliotf (n=elliotf@h-74-1-186-114.snfccasy.covad.net) |
| 08:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:27.14 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 08:34.00 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 08:43.45 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 08:46.42 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 08:47.09 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 08:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 08:58.14 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 09:10.00 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-027.eplus-online.de) |
| 09:13.02 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-154-246.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 09:14.19 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1301 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-taskmanager/src/ (callbacks.c taskmanager.c): remove finger wheel bottom button clicked callback function |
| 09:16.00 | sixfeet_ | moin |
| 09:20.19 | hrw | morning |
| 09:20.28 | pH5 | good morning |
| 09:32.02 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 09:36.33 | aloril | PBeck|off: Phase 2 counter: /msg aloril counter? |
| 09:38.13 | *** part/#openmoko ping_tu (n=ping_tt2@61.185.246.242) |
| 09:42.20 | *** join/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 09:46.54 | CoreDump|afk | did anyone try flashing a new u-boot from inside u-boot yet? |
| 09:49.16 | aloril | blog, ETel, some comments about OpenMoko: "...if you wanted to replace all the numbers on the touch-screen keypad with little dancing hamsters, you could" http://blogblender.faludi.com/?p=2138 ;-) |
| 09:50.57 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 09:51.49 | LarstiQ | now that's an _excellent_ idea |
| 09:53.04 | aloril | Debian, RootSync, OpenMoko: http://swik.net/Debian/Planet+Debian/Joey+Hess:+embedding+debian/z5h7 |
| 09:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko sureshkumar (n=suresh@196.12.43.162) |
| 09:54.37 | sureshkumar | Hi can anyone help me in getting the IRC channel info for KANNEL Open Source? |
| 09:55.17 | hrw | aloril: what kind of site is that swik? |
| 09:56.20 | sureshkumar | Hi can anyone help me in getting the IRC channel info for KANNEL Open Source? |
| 09:56.44 | aloril | hrw: dunno, it was just linked from google blog search |
| 10:00.20 | sureshkumar | Hi can anyone help me in getting the IRC channel info for KANNEL Open Source? |
| 10:01.27 | so_solid_moo | sureshkumar: it's a bit impolite to ask the same question again. Their website says #kannel, have you tried there? |
| 10:08.01 | *** join/#openmoko nm_ (n=hongtd@58.187.131.182) |
| 10:12.18 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:13.45 | florian | good morning |
| 10:15.14 | aloril | sureshkumar: there is nobody 'home' in that channel, it clearly exists though (topic is set) |
| 10:15.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1302 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: |
| 10:15.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: main.c (main): moved alternate setting lookup to so that print_dfu_if prints |
| 10:15.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: the correct information; removed now superfluous success report |
| 10:18.01 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-206-159.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 10:19.09 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485CB02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:20.43 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 10:21.47 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 10:23.11 | hrw | so_solid_moo: there are many irc networks.. |
| 10:23.28 | so_solid_moo | hrw: indeed, but their site indicates they're on this one. |
| 10:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 10:24.44 | hrw | kannel is developed still? |
| 10:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@p57AEC0B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:26.01 | buz | mpf |
| 10:26.13 | buz | why does oo always crash when i'm in a hurry |
| 10:31.09 | CM | buz: s/when i'm in a hurry/?/ ;) |
| 10:31.25 | buz | no usually its really stable for me |
| 10:31.31 | buz | slow maybe but not crashy |
| 10:31.42 | CM | Guess I should give it a try again |
| 10:32.43 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 10:36.56 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora_ (n=antenago@147.162.137.251) |
| 10:37.16 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 10:38.23 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@mnc03.mei.co.jp) |
| 10:39.23 | CoreDump|afk | a note of warning: u-boot images created from .dev do _not_ work yet! |
| 10:41.40 | florian | CoreDump|afk: does usbnet work for you in the oe built images? |
| 10:41.49 | CoreDump|afk | florian: yeah |
| 10:43.01 | jipi | counter |
| 10:43.01 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review P1: 3 weeks, 2 days 01:16:58 (23.053 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (509) |
| 10:45.19 | florian | CoreDump|afk: hrm strange |
| 10:45.53 | CoreDump|afk | ifdown usb0 && ifup usb0 ; ssh 192.168.0.202 |
| 10:46.06 | hrw | flashing my image now.. |
| 10:46.35 | CoreDump|afk | http://rafb.net/p/ApclnK17.html |
| 10:47.00 | florian | hmm... i wonder what went wrong here |
| 10:50.06 | hrw | shit. forgot to erase nand before flashing |
| 10:50.39 | florian | i added padding to the machine conf here.... should i push this maybe? |
| 10:53.13 | hrw | poor aux key... |
| 10:54.00 | *** join/#openmoko dom (n=dom@152.78.191.7) |
| 11:02.10 | rwhitby | So OE has a strict requirement for Python 2.4 at least now. |
| 11:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko dullard (n=jim@adsl-static-1-30.uklinux.net) |
| 11:06.00 | CoreDump|afk | florian: --pad was enabled already in .dex |
| 11:06.03 | CoreDump|afk | .dev |
| 11:06.21 | CoreDump|afk | florian: in fic-gta01.conf |
| 11:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:06.41 | zecke_ | rwhitby: where is that dep? |
| 11:06.42 | aloril | zecke_: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:06.53 | *** join/#openmoko ronny (n=r0nny@pD9E6AFDB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:06.59 | ronny | yo |
| 11:07.00 | rwhitby | zecke_: package QA uses rsplit |
| 11:07.22 | rwhitby | so that rules out RHEL4 and CentOS4 for use with OE |
| 11:07.39 | rwhitby | (and therefore OpenMoko too) |
| 11:07.39 | ronny | anyone knows when the phone will be on sale in europe ? |
| 11:07.58 | florian | CoreDump|afk: yes, but only to the end of the block and not for the full flash?! |
| 11:08.15 | zecke_ | rwhitby: let me try to remember why I have used rsplit |
| 11:08.16 | zecke_ | btb |
| 11:08.17 | zecke_ | brb |
| 11:08.18 | CoreDump|afk | florian: oops =) I thought --pad was enough? |
| 11:09.03 | rwhitby | zecke_: thx - I have been using CentOS4 for OE builds for two years now, and this is the only thing which now stops me |
| 11:09.56 | florian | CoreDump|afk: no, that only fills the last block that was started |
| 11:10.11 | CoreDump|afk | i see |
| 11:13.41 | *** join/#openmoko karwasz (i=karwasz@uptime.pl) |
| 11:13.42 | *** join/#openmoko yellat (n=tal@adsl-75-54-239-216.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:13.46 | *** part/#openmoko yellat (n=tal@adsl-75-54-239-216.dsl.chi2ca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 11:14.54 | CoreDump|afk | w000t |
| 11:15.02 | CoreDump|afk | !praise devirginator |
| 11:15.26 | CoreDump|afk | the new splascreen is cool, but the old one was nicer ;) |
| 11:15.55 | hrw | I tested angstrom image for openmoko and looks like it is time to switch to openmoko ones or get time to find what is fscked in A |
| 11:19.22 | hrw | recent uboot got 'no powerdown during dfu'? |
| 11:20.14 | CoreDump|afk | hrw: that's what I was trying to find out when the OE udev bricked my neo... |
| 11:20.44 | hrw | I do not have toolchain to build uboot |
| 11:21.14 | CoreDump|afk | well, LaF0rge has uploaded new binaries somewhere |
| 11:21.35 | rwhitby | http://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/deploy/images/ maybe? |
| 11:21.41 | vmaster | CoreDump|afk: you bricked your neo? |
| 11:21.44 | CoreDump|afk | yeah |
| 11:21.59 | CoreDump|afk | vmaster: well, yes. Unbricking now |
| 11:22.22 | rwhitby | not much of a brick if you can unbrick it without soldering ;-) |
| 11:22.52 | CoreDump|afk | rwhitby: well, I had to JTAG it :\ That's bricked enough for me =) |
| 11:23.11 | CoreDump|afk | !praise ./devirginate -1 -2 |
| 11:23.42 | CoreDump|afk | ok, round two of the "I wanna upgrade u-boot" game |
| 11:32.16 | *** join/#openmoko MBitter (n=malbi@p508CFCFB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:34.25 | hrw | CoreDump|afk: that one is simple |
| 11:34.51 | hrw | ac off, battery off, battery in, aux hold, press power |
| 11:34.54 | hrw | simple |
| 11:35.49 | CoreDump|afk | hrw: The power button is killing me ;) |
| 11:36.02 | hrw | why? |
| 11:36.20 | CoreDump|afk | it is kinda difficult to press |
| 11:37.37 | alphaone | CoreDump|afk: I think the Aux is harder to press |
| 11:37.41 | hrw | no problems with mine |
| 11:37.42 | CoreDump|afk | no here |
| 11:37.45 | hrw | aux button suxx |
| 11:37.45 | alphaone | good morning |
| 11:38.04 | hrw | rwhitby: devirginating needs touching.. |
| 11:38.38 | rwhitby | hrw: I want a long distance relationship with my Neo, so I can devirginate it remotely. |
| 11:38.48 | rwhitby | (when it's on my test rig at work) |
| 11:40.31 | *** part/#openmoko MBitter (n=malbi@p508CFCFB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:40.38 | florian | hi alphaone |
| 11:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko MBitter (n=malbi@p508CFCFB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:41.28 | CoreDump|afk | GTA01Bv3 # nand write 0x32000000 u-boot |
| 11:41.28 | CoreDump|afk | NAND write: device 0 offset 0x0, size 0x40000 |
| 11:41.28 | CoreDump|afk | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:42.07 | SpeedEvil | You can only guaranteedly re-write the first block 1000 times, remember :) |
| 11:43.03 | CoreDump|afk | heh |
| 11:43.15 | CoreDump|afk | ok, what's the deal |
| 11:43.32 | CoreDump|afk | u-boot.bin from om.org doesn't work either grrr |
| 11:44.25 | *** join/#openmoko heyya (n=asdf@c-68-55-36-148.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 11:44.30 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 11:44.45 | *** part/#openmoko heyya (n=asdf@c-68-55-36-148.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 11:46.00 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@mnc08.mei.co.jp) |
| 11:46.54 | vmaster | maybe aloril could setup a CoreDump counter? 1000, 999, 998, ... ;) |
| 11:47.05 | CoreDump|afk | not funny :\ |
| 11:47.34 | CoreDump|afk | looks like you can't upgrade u-boot from within u-boot even if the wiki says otherwise |
| 11:49.27 | alphaone | My first phone call with the Neo |
| 11:49.39 | wansti | alphaone: !!! |
| 11:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 11:49.52 | rwhitby | alphaone: did you mic work? |
| 11:49.56 | alphaone | wansti one moment |
| 11:50.06 | wansti | alphaone: call me call me call me!!! |
| 11:50.08 | wansti | :-P |
| 11:50.17 | rwhitby | I could only get my speaker to work - they couldn't hear me talking into my mic. |
| 11:50.40 | alphaone | rwhitby: http://opensource.wolfsonmicro.com/~gg/gsmheadset.working.state |
| 11:50.57 | rwhitby | ah, the .working. is the trick, hey? |
| 11:51.17 | alphaone | jup |
| 11:51.58 | *** join/#openmoko Hopscotch (n=cd@touchdown.maintech.de) |
| 11:52.23 | Hopscotch | ohmy - it's full in here :) |
| 11:55.02 | wansti | brb, phone :-D |
| 11:56.11 | wansti | it works :-D |
| 11:59.48 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 12:00.48 | CoreDump|afk | muwahaha |
| 12:06.49 | CM | Hopscotch: Welcome to the crowd ;) |
| 12:07.21 | Hopscotch | thanks - hi ho |
| 12:07.36 | Hopscotch | i guess, i'm one of the few lucky ones :) |
| 12:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 12:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@vnsecurity.net) |
| 12:11.55 | CoreDump|afk | GTA01Bv3 # version |
| 12:11.55 | CoreDump|afk | U-Boot 1.2.0-moko5 (Mar 9 2007 - 00:08:25) |
| 12:12.43 | hrw | CoreDump|afk: new one without powerdown on dfu? |
| 12:13.10 | CoreDump|afk | hrw: new one, yeah. Dunno about the powerdown tho |
| 12:14.48 | CoreDump|afk | hrw: the "boot_menu_timeout work-around works nicely tho |
| 12:14.49 | CM | 3 days to go.. |
| 12:17.42 | Elrond | wansti - I already cited you, but anonymously. If you want, I'll add "this was wansti". :) |
| 12:18.45 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-156-017.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:21.25 | wansti | Elrond: sure, go ahead |
| 12:22.51 | *** part/#openmoko sureshkumar (n=suresh@196.12.43.162) |
| 12:29.02 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@p57AEC0B5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:33.08 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 12:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B9E9A.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:35.05 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@teacheradsl241.eduhi.at) |
| 12:37.22 | CoreDump|afk | meeehhhhh |
| 12:37.48 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.213) |
| 12:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (i=me@nat/ibm/x-c45f91c4ea90763c) |
| 12:38.34 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:42.44 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:46.17 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 12:46.26 | buz | that SummerofCode timeframe seems kinda narrow |
| 12:47.29 | buz | one would expect google to like anything that's related to google maps |
| 12:59.29 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 12:59.46 | SpeedEvil | Not if it cuts into their ad revenue. |
| 13:02.42 | Elrond | hihi. I wonder, if they would allow openstreetmap projects. ;o) |
| 13:03.13 | pH5 | my neo just arrived :) no debug board for me though :( |
| 13:03.20 | pH5 | are there p0 devs with debug boards in berlin? |
| 13:04.08 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 13:04.17 | Elrond | pH5 - Does it have a protective screen foil applied? |
| 13:05.45 | Hopscotch | pH5: did you look into the phone-bag? |
| 13:07.42 | pH5 | Elrond: one that is supposed to be peeled off? yes. |
| 13:07.55 | pH5 | Hopscotch: yes |
| 13:08.12 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: :( |
| 13:08.32 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: zecke and LaF0rge are both in Berlin. Not sure if zecke has a debug board |
| 13:08.45 | hrw | LaF0rge has one for sure |
| 13:09.28 | Elrond | pH5 - Hmm. is it supposed to be pealed of, or is the supposed to stay there? |
| 13:09.41 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: He also has debug board v1 with this sweet big red button. :) |
| 13:10.32 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - As you seem to know a fair bit about g_serial: Is it opossible to put the kernel console on it? |
| 13:11.50 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: hmm, never thought of this. Could be difficult as it uses USB. For what usage? |
| 13:12.30 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - For all those without debug board, but who want to do kernel devel. |
| 13:12.43 | noidd | hmmm, big red button, hmmmm |
| 13:13.11 | Elrond | noidd - Is (your) neo droolproof? ;o)) |
| 13:13.20 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 13:14.07 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - For example this bug could not have a oops-trace attached without the debug board: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=245 |
| 13:14.11 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: You mean for oopses, etc? No idea. If I find something about it I let you know. |
| 13:14.15 | noidd | not since I removed the screen cover :-P |
| 13:14.48 | noidd | I still obsess over the plastic case |
| 13:15.03 | noidd | there is something about the texture of that plastic that makes me think of it as alien technology |
| 13:15.10 | noidd | I can't explain it |
| 13:15.22 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux (n=sri@59.92.188.185) |
| 13:15.51 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Indeed I directly used the debug board instead trying g_serial. Could be worth some research. |
| 13:16.32 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca) |
| 13:16.34 | *** join/#openmoko jzs (n=king@217.116.232.184) |
| 13:17.37 | Elrond | noidd - psscht. fic really is trying to rule the world using alien technology. ;o) |
| 13:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko oskude (n=osku@dslb-084-058-243-253.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:21.36 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: At least in the mainline code I see no reference for g_serial as kernel console. It just appears as ttygs* on the device. |
| 13:23.15 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 13:25.01 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Hmm. I'm not really a kernel developer, so I probably should not ask further about this. ;) |
| 13:26.09 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh, if I found something intersting for you I let you know. |
| 13:26.37 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - :-)) |
| 13:27.18 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - BTW: I like the idea to route ttySAC* to g_serial. :-) |
| 13:28.09 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: yeah, the EZX phone have something similar in the bootloader. This is really nice for rapid developing and testing. |
| 13:28.33 | pH5 | stefan_schmidt: are there any news on the qvga theme? |
| 13:29.22 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: Sadly not. My last status was Sean's promise to talk to the designers. |
| 13:30.04 | Elrond | I guess the designers are busy working for the neo. |
| 13:30.05 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: mickey|austria is on vacation right know and Sean has his 'normal 3 countries a week' travel plan. :( |
| 13:30.16 | *** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjrauhal@myntti.helsinki.fi) |
| 13:30.21 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: No. Working on openmoko.com launch. |
| 13:37.53 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@c-68-42-68-205.hsd1.mi.comcast.net) |
| 13:37.55 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Ahh. |
| 13:38.16 | Elrond | tihi... Bug#77 looks somewhat "internal" ;) |
| 13:38.37 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: But don't expect anything before end of march. |
| 13:40.43 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - I'm not panicing. :) |
| 13:43.22 | philippe | Elrond: well that's good no that they do not try to hide those things :-) |
| 13:44.00 | balrog-kun | http://img215.imageshack.us/img215/2881/20070309foobar2000re1.jpg <-- OpenMoko based theme for PalmOS App Launcher for the Zodiac :) |
| 13:44.07 | balrog-kun | err |
| 13:44.13 | balrog-kun | wonrg link |
| 13:44.25 | balrog-kun | http://www.1src.com/freeware/index.php?cid=111 this is it |
| 13:47.39 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:48.08 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 13:56.43 | *** join/#openmoko _k-s[WORK]_ (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:00.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1303 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/dont-repeat.patch: |
| 14:00.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: common/main.c (main_loop): new flag CONFIG_DONT_REPEAT to suppress automatic |
| 14:00.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: repetition of previous command |
| 14:00.26 | CIA-7 | openmoko: include/configs/neo1973.h: added CONFIG_DONT_REPEAT |
| 14:01.52 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:02.10 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 14:04.29 | jackey | hi |
| 14:04.38 | jackey | openmoko running GPE something? |
| 14:04.44 | jackey | the UI looks pretty cool |
| 14:05.00 | CM | faq? |
| 14:05.01 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 14:05.54 | jackey | i did, but can not find any information about it |
| 14:06.37 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMokoFramework |
| 14:06.49 | rwhitby | feel free to peruse other areas of the wiki too |
| 14:06.51 | jackey | matchbox? |
| 14:07.12 | CM | yes |
| 14:07.22 | CM | matchbox2 even |
| 14:09.10 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.145.129) |
| 14:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 14:09.58 | jackey | not matchbox 1.1? |
| 14:11.34 | hrw | jackey: matchbox2 use gtk instead of xlib |
| 14:11.36 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.141) |
| 14:12.17 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081E6F3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:12.51 | jackey | thx guys, trying to catch up |
| 14:13.43 | jackey | anyway i can simulate the UI on x86? |
| 14:14.01 | balrog-kun | yes |
| 14:14.03 | CM | Yes, use Xoo and Xephyr or xnest :) |
| 14:14.14 | CM | I think there's more about that in the wiki |
| 14:14.32 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC |
| 14:14.45 | rwhitby | linked on the front page |
| 14:16.16 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:18.52 | buz | stefan_schmidt: just about any nvidia based amd board should work nicely with linux |
| 14:19.20 | hrw | buz: nvidia and work nicely? |
| 14:19.27 | buz | never had issues with nforce |
| 14:19.34 | jackey | which parts of neo is not open source? |
| 14:19.49 | stefan_schmidt | hrw: not graphic, but motherboard chips |
| 14:20.12 | hrw | buz: at previous work we had computer with 2 gigE nvidia onboard. had to use pci cheap realtek to get machine workin |
| 14:20.22 | buz | in fact, aside of ati igp chipsets, i have never seen any motherboard having issues under linux |
| 14:20.35 | hrw | buz: my ati igp board works |
| 14:20.43 | buz | now they do |
| 14:20.46 | SpeedEvil | There is the almost universal 'AMD does not properly powersave in stock' ones. |
| 14:20.50 | stefan_schmidt | buz: My main problem is to find a board with fitting components. It's a jungle for. But I already got some good board suggstions. |
| 14:21.05 | SpeedEvil | At least older chips. |
| 14:21.12 | buz | just about any 2 socket baord should come with gigabit |
| 14:21.12 | roh | jackey the software on the gsm-processor and the lib for agps |
| 14:21.46 | CM | stefan_schmidt: I just have to question the "one 400gb disk" thing |
| 14:21.46 | SpeedEvil | My older motherboard would actually powersave down to near room-temp, but the sound/network/usb wouldn't work. |
| 14:21.46 | jackey | any other stacks? |
| 14:21.58 | CM | stefan_schmidt: Won't it be a lot of disk access if you'll compile a lot? |
| 14:22.04 | buz | personally i doubt this will work in the 1500EUR range |
| 14:22.06 | SpeedEvil | Mirroring, and a _large_ RAM cache may help. |
| 14:22.11 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 14:22.14 | buz | run compiles in ramdrive |
| 14:22.17 | rwhitby | jackey: only if you work for TI |
| 14:22.20 | buz | with 4GB ram that should easily work |
| 14:22.28 | SpeedEvil | With 4G of memory, most stuff should stay in RAM. |
| 14:23.04 | buz | not if alan cox has his way |
| 14:23.24 | buz | heck even with swappiness=0 i still see swapping i dont want |
| 14:23.28 | SpeedEvil | Worst case, RAMdisk :) |
| 14:23.33 | SpeedEvil | 'Laptop mode'. |
| 14:23.33 | jackey | rwhitby, i mean bluetooth stack |
| 14:23.45 | SpeedEvil | To set the 'reduce disk access at all costs' flag. |
| 14:23.47 | rwhitby | everything else is open source |
| 14:23.55 | CM | It will use bluez |
| 14:24.04 | buz | laptop mode somehow does weird thigns on my toshiba notebook |
| 14:24.09 | buz | could be a ubuntu thing though |
| 14:24.41 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 14:25.21 | Elrond | jackey - bluetooth is a standard BT chip connected via usb. |
| 14:25.28 | stefan_schmidt | buz: 1500 should be ok. 300 motherboard, 600 CPUs, 300 RAM, 100 HDD, 200 rest |
| 14:25.31 | jackey | i c |
| 14:25.47 | buz | you want a VERY good psu for that |
| 14:26.01 | buz | those generally run >150EUR alone |
| 14:26.12 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - 600 CPU's will take a bit of juice. |
| 14:26.33 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: heh |
| 14:26.53 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1304 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/dont-repeat.patch: Rejected. |
| 14:26.56 | stefan_schmidt | buz: I already have a tower, so PSU 150 should be ok. |
| 14:26.58 | SpeedEvil | I'd drop the CPU a bit maybe, and more disk. |
| 14:27.11 | stefan_schmidt | buz: 1600 is also ok. |
| 14:27.16 | Elrond | jackey - And the agps has lots of talk, so hoping for some free replacement isn't completely off the record. |
| 14:27.20 | buz | maybe core 2 quad would be cheaper |
| 14:27.22 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: perhaps |
| 14:27.24 | Stephmw | stefan_schmidt: got a few networked boxes for ccache and distcc? |
| 14:27.49 | buz | the core 2 quad is seriously bandwidth starved though |
| 14:28.07 | CM | buz: And it's surely not cheap.. |
| 14:28.17 | buz | possible cheaper than dual core opterons |
| 14:28.17 | stefan_schmidt | Stephmw: nah, one machine for my office is fine. |
| 14:28.24 | buz | or possibly not |
| 14:28.28 | SpeedEvil | I have real doubts that the GPS will be replaced with a more free one. The hardware looks good. And in a month or so whern the driver arrives, ... |
| 14:28.56 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 14:28.57 | buz | there's a 4*1,86ghz xeon for ~400EUR |
| 14:29.08 | SpeedEvil | Everyone seen amazon's virtual compute cloud? 'nimble' servers. You want a hundred servers in the next minute booted from the same image, sure! |
| 14:29.18 | SpeedEvil | Pay per hour-image. |
| 14:29.27 | buz | yeah |
| 14:29.38 | buz | but it's a pain to use for really short bursts |
| 14:29.39 | SpeedEvil | Prolly not a good idea if you're going to be running it flat out. |
| 14:30.03 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 14:30.25 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - You mean, when the binary is there, everyone will be happy with it and bobody is going to reverse engeneer it? |
| 14:30.27 | SpeedEvil | When the driver for the GPS arrives, I'd expect someone to reverse engineer it pretty quickly. |
| 14:30.55 | Elrond | Ahh, exactly what I meant by "hope is realistic". |
| 14:31.23 | Elrond | After that it will be free. ;) |
| 14:32.01 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: another problem with EC2... signup is currently closed - I'm waiting to host stuff on there |
| 14:33.02 | Elrond | ec2? |
| 14:33.30 | Stephmw | Amazon's Computing Cloud |
| 14:33.44 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 14:34.24 | Elrond | What do they host there? |
| 14:34.47 | Stephmw | anything... you upload a system image (essentially a xen instance) |
| 14:34.57 | Stephmw | google it :) |
| 14:37.23 | philippe | stefan_schmidt: multiple CPU's don't speed up so much as expected however... most time in OE goes to ./configure etc... |
| 14:37.57 | hrw | philippe: bitbake is multithreaded today... |
| 14:38.18 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: get a cpu with hardware accelerated m4 execution |
| 14:38.35 | hrw | zecke: and gcc in microcode |
| 14:38.50 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: heh, have a order link for me? |
| 14:39.05 | zecke | hrw: microcode is so 70s, RISC is the future :) |
| 14:39.16 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: no, sadly not |
| 14:39.31 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: we could build one and get rich? |
| 14:39.34 | stefan_schmidt | oe guys: What are your suggestions. You should know it best. |
| 14:40.02 | stefan_schmidt | The main reason for the beast is using oe the whole day now. :) |
| 14:40.22 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: get a barebone AMD64 x2 from alternate + ram for ~350 euro |
| 14:40.41 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: and if one is not enough get as many to fill your budget and install icecream on them |
| 14:41.35 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: but as philippe mentioned, most time is spend on autoreconf |
| 14:41.53 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: hmm, I don't like to many machine here. |
| 14:41.58 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44be55.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 14:42.25 | zecke | stefan_schmidt: they are small, place them in one big case (but one of these machines is enough) |
| 14:43.09 | guaqua | stefan_schmidt: virtualization, you could try running stuff in parallel |
| 14:43.22 | stefan_schmidt | zecke: This means I save a lot money, damn. ;) |
| 14:44.05 | stefan_schmidt | guaqua: brr, virtualization. I have enough 'fun' with that at work. :) |
| 14:44.13 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 14:44.16 | guaqua | :D |
| 14:45.41 | *** part/#openmoko mave_pan (i=me@nat/ibm/x-c45f91c4ea90763c) |
| 14:50.04 | buz | yeah i wonder if it wouldnt be more useful to get 2 cheap amd x2 |
| 14:50.18 | buz | you could even run mosix on them ;) |
| 14:53.00 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_x_ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 14:55.40 | philippe | hrw: I saw something about it, however when I added the BB_NUMBER_THREADS in my local.conf I did not see anything happening (and I believe I am using the latest bitbake svn) |
| 14:55.57 | philippe | Anyway I'll make sure it is the latest svn before I start complaining :-) |
| 14:56.50 | stefan_schmidt | Seems everybody likes to save me money here. Thanks guys. :) I still takes some time before I can order. Enough time to sleep over it. |
| 14:58.34 | SuN | After paying twice as much for the first one? ;) |
| 14:58.58 | philippe | SuN: It was way cheaper than anything comparable I could build myself. |
| 14:59.09 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:59.09 | SuN | Nice |
| 14:59.31 | philippe | SuN: Of course I did not take any options like extra memory or bigger disks as they charge huge amounts for that. |
| 15:00.05 | SuN | Yeah, the thing with Dell is, as long as you stick to what they want you to buy, they can be pretty cheap. |
| 15:01.04 | philippe | I did have some trouble to find a store who would sell me registered DDR2 with ECC, but apart from that I expanded the rest myself |
| 15:01.11 | guaqua | dell is pretty cheap. just that their remote management tools suck...or this is what i've heard... |
| 15:01.32 | thresh | ssh sucks? |
| 15:01.40 | guaqua | lights out management |
| 15:01.42 | philippe | guaqua: for a workstation you don't need them anyway :-) |
| 15:01.56 | guaqua | when you have no way to get to the server... |
| 15:02.11 | guaqua | then you come to appreciate hp's iLO |
| 15:02.28 | guaqua | philippe: for a workstation, no :) |
| 15:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 15:04.19 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 15:04.22 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-218-21.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 15:09.02 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. http://gps.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/activeGetZip.asp I click to download GPS offsets from the site (delayed alas) and I get a shareware nag-screem |
| 15:09.04 | SpeedEvil | n |
| 15:09.07 | SpeedEvil | Impressive. |
| 15:09.47 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:11.32 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 15:12.27 | balrog-kun | there's no backup battery in the Neo, right? |
| 15:12.37 | SpeedEvil | I thought I saw one. |
| 15:12.42 | SpeedEvil | Next to the microphone. |
| 15:12.45 | balrog-kun | oh ok |
| 15:13.22 | balrog-kun | the PCF50606 register dump at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/PCF50606 indicates that there's a backup battery connected, looking at PCF50606 specs so i was wondering |
| 15:13.23 | SpeedEvil | It got deleted after I added it to the hardware wiki |
| 15:13.23 | SpeedEvil | and no comment made, so possibly not. |
| 15:13.39 | SpeedEvil | Oh yeah. |
| 15:14.44 | PBeck | this mean that the data will be stored, when akku is commplety empty? |
| 15:14.48 | PBeck | +the |
| 15:14.58 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Power_Management |
| 15:15.00 | SpeedEvil | says there is one. |
| 15:15.07 | SpeedEvil | w |
| 15:15.10 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 15:15.10 | *** join/#openmoko ArtificialSynaps (n=Navi00@165.139.116.252) |
| 15:15.16 | balrog-kun | ah good to know that |
| 15:15.24 | SpeedEvil | The main battery has enough energy to keep the device in suspend-RAM for a year. |
| 15:15.47 | balrog-kun | provided Linux suspends everything correctly :) |
| 15:16.04 | SpeedEvil | If you shut off the device when there is 5% battery left, then you've still got 2 weeks in suspend-RAM. |
| 15:16.09 | SpeedEvil | Or you can suspend to SD. |
| 15:16.21 | SpeedEvil | For more closely zero power use. |
| 15:16.28 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: the data storage is not like the palm, or? |
| 15:16.29 | balrog-kun | is suspend to SD implemented? |
| 15:16.36 | PBeck | there can i lost data, yes? |
| 15:16.40 | SpeedEvil | Almost certainly not (to SD) |
| 15:16.52 | SpeedEvil | It's like a PC. |
| 15:16.57 | balrog-kun | i haven't seen suspend to SD anywhere on Linux |
| 15:17.12 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: ok thx |
| 15:17.13 | SpeedEvil | If you turn it off without suspending, it loses stuff in memory |
| 15:17.18 | *** part/#openmoko ArtificialSynaps (n=Navi00@165.139.116.252) |
| 15:17.20 | SpeedEvil | files on disk (SD in this case) are OK. |
| 15:17.30 | SpeedEvil | suspend to SD should 'just work' AIUI. |
| 15:17.36 | Lumpio- | (Is suspend to SD any different from suspend to HD?) |
| 15:17.44 | balrog-kun | yeah, or flash |
| 15:17.45 | SpeedEvil | Briefly, yes. |
| 15:18.06 | balrog-kun | though i would expect dumping 128MB to SD to be quite power consuming |
| 15:18.09 | SpeedEvil | But it's not _very_ different, the standard case won't catch it, you'll probably need a 5 line bash script and an initrd. |
| 15:19.05 | SpeedEvil | In practice. |
| 15:19.20 | SpeedEvil | If everything is designed sanely, and supports 'save now' power interrupts. |
| 15:19.34 | SpeedEvil | then you don't really need to suspend to SD, you just save all content, and power off. |
| 15:20.10 | SpeedEvil | The way firefox/sessionsaver copes with crashes'd probably be the standard to aim for. |
| 15:20.25 | balrog-kun | also it would take probably like 5 minutes to write 128MB to SD |
| 15:20.56 | SpeedEvil | It's not _that_ bad. |
| 15:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko xyrouz (n=xyrouz@62.79.112.57.dhcp.ro.tiscali.dk) |
| 15:21.07 | SpeedEvil | I got a meg and a half a second last time I tried IIRC. |
| 15:21.23 | Lumpio- | Hm, still would take like 1.5 minutes... |
| 15:21.29 | Lumpio- | Uber-highspeed cards can do like 10MB/s right? |
| 15:21.30 | SpeedEvil | Does it matter? |
| 15:21.37 | SpeedEvil | I think so. |
| 15:21.46 | Lumpio- | Well, it doesn't really matter, but... |
| 15:21.54 | SpeedEvil | 1.5 minutes of slow-mode power isn't that much. |
| 15:21.55 | hrw | Lumpio-: if controller can... |
| 15:22.04 | balrog-kun | on a palm pda 300 KB/s was the max i could squeeze out of the mmc bus |
| 15:22.23 | SpeedEvil | I make it around a milliamp-hour. |
| 15:22.38 | balrog-kun | but that bus didn't support the 4-wire mode |
| 15:22.40 | SpeedEvil | Or 1/1200th of the battery. |
| 15:22.59 | buz | suspend to disk does never write everything to disk |
| 15:23.12 | SpeedEvil | I know. |
| 15:23.14 | SpeedEvil | Usually. |
| 15:23.23 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora_study (i=antenago@147.162.137.251) |
| 15:23.25 | buz | if the algorithm is anything like sane you only write data to disk |
| 15:23.28 | SpeedEvil | Unless you're a bit into swap, and you've got very little bugger cache. |
| 15:23.38 | buz | the rest you can always fetch from nand |
| 15:23.45 | SpeedEvil | Normally it can throw away quite a lot. |
| 15:26.07 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 15:39.42 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora_study (n=antenago@147.162.137.251) |
| 15:40.09 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1305 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/cmd-unzip.patch: common/cmd_mem.c: changed maximum argc of "unzip" from CFG_MAXARGS to 4 |
| 15:43.37 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (n=bflong@146.145.26.91) |
| 15:45.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1306 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: |
| 15:45.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: drivers/usbdfu.c (handle_dnload): free stale dynamically allocated buffer |
| 15:45.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: before starting new download (plugs memory leak after failed downloads) |
| 15:45.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: drivers/usbdfu.c (dfu_init_strings): corrected partition name creation logic |
| 15:46.41 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@ppp-82-135-86-39.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 15:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko thresh_ (n=popa3d@tower.pp.ru) |
| 15:51.54 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 15:56.30 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081E0EA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:56.59 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 16:00.08 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 16:15.32 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 16:16.29 | *** join/#openmoko codo (n=codo@122.167.82.251) |
| 16:16.37 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 16:16.42 | SpeedEvil | I assume the touchscreen works just like a mouse over apps? |
| 16:17.39 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: cat /dev/ts will show you |
| 16:17.55 | SpeedEvil | No, it won't :( |
| 16:18.01 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: the info encoding is very straightforward though |
| 16:18.05 | SpeedEvil | Well, not for a monthish |
| 16:18.36 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 16:18.41 | SpeedEvil | is there a dump of /dev/ts? |
| 16:19.05 | Stephmw | last I tried that on a Zaurus it gave blocks of pressure, x, y |
| 16:19.20 | SpeedEvil | k |
| 16:19.23 | Stephmw | (possibly in a different order) |
| 16:19.30 | Stephmw | and binary, not ascii :) |
| 16:19.35 | balrog-kun | the omoko kernel has /dev/ts ? |
| 16:19.53 | Stephmw | it's a standard device, I'd hope so |
| 16:20.07 | balrog-kun | tsdev was deprecated in favour of evdev like a couple of years ago |
| 16:20.17 | Stephmw | what does it expose? |
| 16:20.48 | balrog-kun | they have similar protocols, |
| 16:21.28 | balrog-kun | evdev sends the x, y, pressure, touch events as separate events, and it is the same protocol that's used for mice and all HID |
| 16:21.38 | Stephmw | fair enough |
| 16:21.52 | hrw | touchscreen expose /dev/input/eventX which in most of OE distros is symlinked to /dev/input/touchscreen0 by udev |
| 16:22.02 | balrog-kun | tsdev sends a simple struct with x, y, and pressure (i think it was called Compaq protocol) |
| 16:22.16 | MBitter | trunk/oe/packages/tslib/tslib-1.0/fic-gta01/tslib.sh says something like this: TSLIB_TSDEVICE=/dev/input/touchscreen0 |
| 16:22.29 | balrog-kun | tslib supports both things |
| 16:22.43 | Stephmw | wonderful |
| 16:22.50 | hrw | balrog-kun: and tsdev is on way to be removed from kernel (if not even already removed) |
| 16:23.10 | Stephmw | that makes writing a Java-input driver trivial (Java without X is nice) ;) |
| 16:23.21 | balrog-kun | hrw: finally. i don't know if it even compiles now |
| 16:23.45 | balrog-kun | tsdev also does the strange thing of calibration being done in kernel |
| 16:23.48 | aloril2 | Counter |
| 16:23.57 | aloril2 | counter |
| 16:23.58 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Neo1973_P0_Review P1: 3 weeks, a day 19:36:02 (22.817 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (510) |
| 16:26.24 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
| 16:28.49 | hrw | balrog-kun: on day I will write kernel driver for mt510 touchscreen which I have in progear webpad here |
| 16:35.45 | *** join/#openmoko ronny_ (n=r0nny@pD9E6BBB0.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:38.30 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1307 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ (gsmd.c vendor_ti.c): move CTZR into vendor_ti.c, since not all GSM Modems support it (Philipp Zabel) |
| 16:41.41 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z7b78.z.pppool.de) |
| 16:42.33 | *** join/#openmoko clem-vangelis (n=vangelis@AOrleans-152-1-101-139.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 16:45.27 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@cm128.delta240.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 16:46.10 | *** join/#openmoko FamiliaFernandez (n=chatzill@168.226.107.252) |
| 16:46.17 | *** part/#openmoko FamiliaFernandez (n=chatzill@168.226.107.252) |
| 16:46.19 | balrog-kun | hrw: is this the device that sat at the OE table on FOSDEM with abiword running on it saying something like "this machine runs OE"? |
| 16:46.37 | *** join/#openmoko nonickatm (n=chatzill@168.226.107.252) |
| 16:47.52 | *** join/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@61-230-75-67.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 16:48.19 | balrog-kun | it had the biggest LCD of all devices there :) |
| 16:48.32 | nonickatm | what? |
| 16:48.32 | aloril | nonickatm: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 16:48.46 | Stephmw | lol |
| 16:49.22 | so_solid_moo | hehe |
| 16:50.49 | nonickatm | the 'why not camera' discussion ended right? |
| 16:51.26 | hrw | balrog-kun: yes |
| 16:51.57 | hrw | balrog-kun: 12" XGA |
| 16:52.08 | hrw | balrog-kun: or 10.4" - I do not remember |
| 16:52.10 | SuN | You can still have a discussion about that, but neither winning or losing that discussion will get you a camera in P0 or P1 :) |
| 16:52.17 | SuN | 10.4 |
| 16:52.21 | balrog-kun | i only remembered the Progear name |
| 16:52.24 | SuN | (just read up on it) |
| 16:52.26 | balrog-kun | which i had never heard before |
| 16:52.58 | SuN | I think it's a nice idea for $500, but for $1500 it is not. |
| 16:53.10 | nonickatm | a question: the display (NOT resolution) of the iphone is bigger than the neo1973 right? |
| 16:55.17 | SuN | If you look up the screen sizes of the iphone and the neo for me, I'll tell you. |
| 16:55.24 | mjr | SuN :) |
| 16:55.26 | mjr | yeah |
| 16:55.30 | SuN | Because I'm not about to google them myself :D |
| 16:55.48 | mjr | I have the impression that iPhone will have a slightly larger display but it's not based on any hard data |
| 16:57.06 | nonickatm | but the neo1973 has better resolution |
| 16:57.15 | mjr | that's for sure |
| 16:58.46 | hrw | mjr: iphone: 3.5" 320x480, neo: 2.8" 480x640 |
| 16:59.08 | guaqua | the resolution difference is major |
| 16:59.16 | hrw | cu |
| 16:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 16:59.57 | nonickatm | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List_-_Hardware#Video-capable_camera <- if that is going to happening in neo1973 v2, please use only a vga camera because: |
| 16:59.58 | nonickatm | 1. even the best camera for mobile phones can not take great pictures because of the small size of the lens |
| 17:00.00 | nonickatm | 2. the megapixels tells the max resolution, not quality ;) |
| 17:02.39 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 17:03.26 | nonickatm | also further devices designs will include some without touchscreen (this is, standard phones) |
| 17:03.27 | *** join/#openmoko Sarp (n=Miranda@d50h127.public.uconn.edu) |
| 17:03.40 | nonickatm | I forgot the ? |
| 17:03.52 | balrog-kun | state this on the wiki page |
| 17:04.06 | guaqua | there's no official neov2 |
| 17:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@85-124-254-11.wels.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 17:23.19 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@cable-vrk-feb6dd00-89.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 17:23.40 | buz | nonickatm: clearly you have never seen pics by the n95 |
| 17:24.00 | buz | (or any other decent 2-3mp camera phone, for that matter) |
| 17:24.22 | nonickatm | that's because the lens are bigger |
| 17:24.40 | nonickatm | and n95 wasn't yet released |
| 17:24.49 | buz | there are shots from pre release models around |
| 17:25.16 | buz | hell, look at n73 even that one is by leaps and bounds better than any vga cam i've ever seen |
| 17:26.12 | *** join/#openmoko nslu2-log (n=nslu2-lo@nslu2-linux/dyoung) |
| 17:26.23 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:27.54 | nonickatm | well I hear that the nokia 5300 (1.3mpx) shoots better photos than a SE k750 (2mpx!) |
| 17:28.24 | buz | well the se k750 is at least one year older |
| 17:32.03 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 17:32.15 | nonickatm | well after all... a 5 mpx mobile phone cam will never reach the quality of a digicam with the same resolution |
| 17:38.14 | SpeedEvil | Lens size is important in lower light, as is noise. |
| 17:40.43 | SuN | Current cellphone camera quality is pretty much sufficient for the target use though, which is MMS and (mobile) blogging, I guess. |
| 17:40.55 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-110-215.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:43.52 | nonickatm | about providers, someone knows what company can be the best for argentina (or south america in general). Here are only three providers: movistar, personal and CTI (this last one is the one with more diversity of devices) |
| 17:44.44 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485CB02.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:45.44 | SpeedEvil | Any GSM provider that doesn't whitelist phones. |
| 17:45.57 | SpeedEvil | You've looked on the wiki? |
| 17:46.39 | SpeedEvil | Alternatively, [[GSM]] on wikipedia may be worth a look. |
| 17:47.54 | balrog-kun | isn't Telefonica S.A. a provider in Argentina? |
| 17:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko rep_ (n=rep@vs187078.vserver.de) |
| 17:50.55 | nonickatm | movistar is from telefonica, personal from telecom and cti is a national provider |
| 17:51.09 | balrog-kun | ah i see |
| 17:51.48 | balrog-kun | i was thinking that Telefonica has its evil powers everywhere in south america |
| 17:51.55 | nonickatm | also in the wiki's faq there is no section called "finding providers for each country" or similar |
| 17:52.01 | nonickatm | yes, that's right |
| 17:52.48 | *** join/#openmoko clem-vangelis (n=vangelis@AOrleans-152-1-54-165.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 17:53.47 | nonickatm | telefonica here bought a provider that was cooperating with cti so where cti has no coverage, then the other provider (movicom) makes the role of server |
| 17:54.23 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gabe@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 17:55.59 | nonickatm | and now it's planning to buy telecom for monopolyzing (don't know exact word :S) the mobile phones services here, in south america and parts of europe |
| 17:56.44 | SuN | Aren't there any federal trade laws in your country? |
| 17:57.04 | SuN | Specifically ones that counter monopolism. |
| 17:58.22 | cworth | rwhitby: ping |
| 17:59.24 | balrog-kun | well, Telefonica's only reason for still being in the business is holding total monopol in a number of countries, including Spain |
| 17:59.38 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_compatible_cellphone_providers is the page |
| 17:59.48 | SpeedEvil | which does not mention Argentina. |
| 17:59.52 | balrog-kun | they would lose most of their clients immediately if there were alternatives |
| 18:00.11 | balrog-kun | err, customer |
| 18:00.12 | balrog-kun | s |
| 18:00.14 | nonickatm | I think the most apropiate provider is cti |
| 18:00.17 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@83.240.224.34) |
| 18:00.25 | greentux | hi koen |
| 18:00.28 | SuN | So why aren't there any alternatives? |
| 18:01.00 | SuN | You'd say there's a viable market. |
| 18:01.03 | balrog-kun | i don't know, some political reasons |
| 18:01.17 | koen|lisboa | hey greentux |
| 18:02.08 | nonickatm | they are the provider that brings more phones variety here |
| 18:02.36 | balrog-kun | on the other hand telefonica was quite advanced, maybe 50 years ago, and before WWII, they funded lots of research |
| 18:03.00 | balrog-kun | kindof like Bell and Cisco in spanish speaking countries |
| 18:04.56 | nonickatm | movistar or personal attract more the public here because cti in Buenos Aires and environs (google traduced :$) doesn't work very well |
| 18:07.40 | SuN | Here in NL, we have 5 networks competing over 15 million people. |
| 18:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 18:08.08 | guaqua | in finland the ratio is the same |
| 18:08.09 | SuN | Sounds to me either cti should fix things, or some other company should jump in, because there's a large market there. |
| 18:08.18 | guaqua | 3 major players on the market with their own networks |
| 18:08.41 | guaqua | and maybe like 3 more that rent network capacity |
| 18:08.48 | guaqua | that's for 5 million people |
| 18:09.04 | guaqua | ermm |
| 18:09.09 | guaqua | ratio is smaller :S |
| 18:09.13 | aevin | SuN: 5 different infrastructures (carriers) or does that include virtual operators as well? |
| 18:09.56 | SuN | 5 separate networks, a few additional virtual operators as well. |
| 18:10.34 | aevin | SuN: sounds nice. tough competition must be good. |
| 18:10.38 | SuN | All 5 of those networks have coverage in the high 90s. |
| 18:11.04 | aevin | "high 90s" =? |
| 18:11.10 | aevin | as in 90 m above sea level? |
| 18:11.16 | SuN | No, percentages :) |
| 18:11.24 | guaqua | "the roarin' 90s" :) |
| 18:11.50 | aevin | lol. i thought is was some .nl expression. you're country is so flat, isn't it? ;-) |
| 18:12.10 | SuN | Yeah, we don't have that many areas that are 90m above sea level. |
| 18:12.25 | nonickatm | comparison of network coverages here (can be out of date): |
| 18:12.27 | nonickatm | CTI: http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=ar&net=cc |
| 18:12.28 | nonickatm | Personal: http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=ar&net=tp |
| 18:12.30 | nonickatm | Movistar: http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=ar&net=tc |
| 18:12.31 | nonickatm | (I think that the two last ones are very out of date because phones running in different locations than the marked have coverage |
| 18:13.36 | SuN | http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=nl&net=pt |
| 18:13.49 | SuN | http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=nl&net=du |
| 18:14.05 | SuN | http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=nl&net=pr |
| 18:14.21 | SuN | http://www.gsmworld.com/cgi-bin/ni_map.pl?cc=nl&net=li |
| 18:14.25 | buz | in switzerland we have 3 networks 7.5 million people and about 6 MVNO |
| 18:14.29 | SuN | Woa Argentina looks awful. |
| 18:14.50 | nonickatm | I think that the best option for here will be the three companies because none is the best |
| 18:15.03 | nonickatm | yes, here the telecomunications are a disaster :S |
| 18:15.36 | SuN | I guess NL is a pretty ideal country for a GSM network though. |
| 18:16.05 | SuN | Closely inhabited, flat and enough high buildings. |
| 18:17.14 | SuN | Direct line to god, I would assume. |
| 18:17.19 | nonickatm | movistar has roaming agreements with t-mobile in usa for better information |
| 18:19.10 | nonickatm | cti with cingular, suncom, t-mobile and cincinatti bell wireless |
| 18:19.42 | nonickatm | personal with cingular and t-mobile |
| 18:20.00 | nonickatm | some info that can be necesary |
| 18:24.56 | *** join/#openmoko clem-vangelis_ (n=vangelis@AOrleans-152-1-79-2.w90-21.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 18:26.00 | *** join/#openmoko s34n (n=chatzill@ip-206-159-190-125.mvdsl.com) |
| 18:26.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1308 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (7 files): |
| 18:26.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * Add a command line option to to the dialer to show the gui on first run |
| 18:26.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * Make sure no windows are shown and then hidden in openmoko-dialer |
| 18:29.41 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-26-161.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:34.16 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora_study (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 18:34.47 | *** part/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@61-230-75-67.dynamic.hinet.net) |
| 18:45.55 | *** join/#openmoko ebel (n=rory@A-72-132.cust.iol.ie) |
| 18:48.47 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 18:49.09 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-26-161.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:49.31 | *** join/#openmoko unique (n=chatzill@L05fa.l.pppool.de) |
| 18:52.42 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 18:53.22 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=user@a85-156-253-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 18:54.12 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-118-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:55.39 | greentux | what are you doing in lisboa koen|lisboa ? |
| 18:59.20 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 18:59.45 | ebel | I'm interested in getting a phase1 phone. Do I need to put my name down somewhere? How many units will be available? |
| 19:00.07 | Psi_ | no,as many as needed |
| 19:00.13 | LuitvD | ebel: look at the wiki |
| 19:00.38 | LuitvD | ebel: information will appear there as soon as there is some |
| 19:01.06 | ebel | OK. I'm just worried about all the phase1 units going and having to wait till septemeber. :( |
| 19:01.30 | LuitvD | ebel: there'll most likely be a phase1+ too... |
| 19:01.49 | LuitvD | ebel: so there's 2 chances for you to get it before september/mass-market |
| 19:02.14 | *** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07F7ED.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:02.57 | Psi_ | LuitvD, phase1+ ? are you thinking their could be a new hardware revision after phase1 is out? |
| 19:02.58 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54952117.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:03.21 | LuitvD | Psi_: read the wiki :) |
| 19:03.26 | Psi_ | hehe |
| 19:03.31 | LuitvD | Psi_: something about a Hardware Refresh |
| 19:03.34 | LuitvD | ;) |
| 19:05.11 | ebel | Oooh, shipping from EU. No customs. :) |
| 19:06.11 | Psi_ | meh, cant find anything about phase1+ or a hardware refresh |
| 19:07.16 | Elrond | ebel - Where do you have that from? Any definite source? |
| 19:08.03 | ebel | Elrond, it says so on the wiki: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_When_can_I_buy_a_Neo1973.3F |
| 19:08.12 | ebel | Doesn't really back it up though. |
| 19:08.47 | Psi_ | ah, found it, just not on the wiki |
| 19:09.57 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.129) |
| 19:12.54 | SpeedEvil | Argh. |
| 19:13.05 | SpeedEvil | I had a brilliant idea when I was hanging a door for an app. |
| 19:13.14 | SpeedEvil | Of course, I now can't remember it. |
| 19:13.44 | *** part/#openmoko don-o (n=donp@206.163.122.98) |
| 19:13.51 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah, as usual. |
| 19:13.54 | so_solid_moo | SpeedEvil: some kind of software spirit level? :) |
| 19:14.44 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 19:15.05 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:15.45 | SpeedEvil | No :) |
| 19:19.38 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: I usually have other things on my mind when hanging a door :P |
| 19:22.14 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - You there? |
| 19:22.27 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: more or less |
| 19:22.43 | LuitvD | both :) |
| 19:22.55 | LuitvD | oh wait, that wasn't a question :) |
| 19:24.11 | SpeedEvil | It was the boring bit - got hinges on, everything fits, now take off half an inch of wood with a plane. |
| 19:24.47 | *** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9bebf46.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 19:25.03 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - "I could life with that solution, but why not extend g_serial with a paramter to communicate directly with another tty?". It would allow dynamic rerouting of one g_serial "virtual usb serial". ;) |
| 19:25.03 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-118-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:26.37 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: hmm, I don't see a use case for this dynamic rerouting. Anyway, if it needs to be done this way for mainline inclusion it's ok. |
| 19:27.03 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I like to get some more feedback from the usb guys about this. |
| 19:27.19 | *** join/#openmoko elliotf (n=elliotf@h-74-1-186-114.snfccasy.covad.net) |
| 19:27.21 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - What I wonder: Do you need to change the SAC0 code too? |
| 19:27.53 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I hope not. |
| 19:29.31 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Hmmm.. From userspace, both (SAC0 and g*) are really two normal serial lines out of the device. Not much difference. Only one major difference: The g* can change its com.-parameter "myserisouly" (the usb-host does it). |
| 19:30.17 | Elrond | s/myserisouly/mysteriously |
| 19:30.22 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: yeah, and we need to communicate this to SAC0 somehow |
| 19:31.30 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1309 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/vendor_ti.c: fix typo in last commit |
| 19:32.36 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Hmm, so you really only need one "callback" from g*: A hook, when the "mystery" happens. The rest (forwarding data from here to there, the new kernel module should be able to do on its own, I'd guess. |
| 19:35.25 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Indeed, something like this. I just got another answer from Felipe. That's the first thing I'll try. |
| 19:36.04 | felipe | felipe ftw! :D |
| 19:37.12 | Elrond | Hmm, I don't see felipe's answer on -kernel? |
| 19:39.20 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: He cc'ed it. Perhaps take some time for mail delivery |
| 19:39.45 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: He suggested to change the Major and Minor for fast test. |
| 19:40.43 | Elrond | Huh? How does that aid in a fast test?! |
| 19:44.56 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.101.192.70) |
| 19:45.21 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Change to the Major from tty SAC0. I'll test it out later this night. |
| 19:46.51 | Elrond | I doubt, that it'll work. But that's me. |
| 19:48.11 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I tell you tomorrow. Or just read the ml. :) |
| 19:49.19 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 19:52.22 | *** join/#openmoko BenSee (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 19:53.22 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@85-124-254-11.wels.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 20:04.40 | nonickatm | is possible to code a image editor for openmoko or it will be too hard? |
| 20:04.47 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora_study (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 20:05.27 | SpeedEvil | It depends on your definition of hard. |
| 20:05.50 | SpeedEvil | And what you want in an editor. There may even be ones that suit already. |
| 20:06.14 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 20:06.23 | rwhitby | morning |
| 20:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko koen|lisboa (n=koen@83.240.224.34) |
| 20:07.36 | nonickatm | I mean if it will be hard to use |
| 20:08.00 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, it's a meaningless question. |
| 20:08.19 | SpeedEvil | There is no final software list that will go out on phones in September. |
| 20:08.32 | SpeedEvil | There are some people coding things that may turn into final apps. |
| 20:09.06 | SpeedEvil | Wander round the wiki, and if you don't see it in the software list, contribute to a page. |
| 20:09.31 | SpeedEvil | Maybe someone will code it. |
| 20:09.39 | SpeedEvil | Or suggest an app to port. |
| 20:13.44 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1310 10/trunk/oe/packages/tasks/task-openmoko.bb: remove mplayer from rootfs to save space |
| 20:16.56 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-a491ae9dceec548d) |
| 20:17.20 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 20:18.26 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=hello@mail.wjsgroup.com) |
| 20:20.31 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1311 10/trunk/oe/conf/distro/include/openmoko.inc: increase ext2.gz size to 128M |
| 20:22.18 | balrog-kun | hmm nice |
| 20:22.27 | balrog-kun | so the philips touchscreen controller in the pcf50606 chip can measure not only touch pressure but also touch area |
| 20:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko kn0x (n=pinochle@c-67-176-194-29.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 20:24.36 | kn0x | hello |
| 20:25.08 | rwhitby | g'day |
| 20:25.44 | kn0x | well, i was just curious, what the roadmap for beta release is... |
| 20:26.07 | kn0x | im looking at the site and its not to clear |
| 20:30.16 | rwhitby | kn0x: define "beta" |
| 20:31.27 | kn0x | rather the developer edition |
| 20:31.39 | SpeedEvil | End of month or so. |
| 20:31.53 | SpeedEvil | For buying the version which will have little more than a basic phone software workingt. |
| 20:32.12 | rwhitby | (assuming you're talking about the neo hardware, not the openmoko software) |
| 20:32.12 | kn0x | see im in the market for a new phone... and after reading about the project, i'd be interested in doing some work on it. I am pretty good with qtopia.... |
| 20:32.39 | kn0x | right right |
| 20:32.47 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-118-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:32.56 | kn0x | but i see, in september there planning to release a 2ng gen phone? |
| 20:32.56 | aloril | kn0x: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 20:33.26 | kn0x | nice |
| 20:33.29 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-55.media.mit.edu) |
| 20:33.33 | SpeedEvil | Software development continues till mass market releas in September. |
| 20:33.37 | kn0x | wow, im impressed |
| 20:33.38 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_x_ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 20:33.41 | SpeedEvil | s/ill/rough/ |
| 20:33.53 | SpeedEvil | through |
| 20:34.07 | kn0x | but i wouldnt want to spend 400 bucks and then find out 6months later they've released new hardware with a camera and wifi |
| 20:34.25 | SpeedEvil | There will be a version with wifi, probably in June. |
| 20:34.48 | SpeedEvil | Anyone buying the earlier version gets an (unspecified) discount on it. |
| 20:35.30 | kn0x | ahh |
| 20:35.45 | kn0x | what kind of development has taken place with the OpenMoko suite? |
| 20:37.29 | *** part/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 20:38.01 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 20:40.47 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-118-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 20:48.38 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 20:50.43 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB749C4.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:50.54 | alphaone | LaF0rge: ping |
| 20:54.20 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 20:55.56 | hrw | SpeedEvil: who told that there will be wifi in v1.5? |
| 20:56.07 | SpeedEvil | Sorry - I overstated. |
| 20:56.38 | SpeedEvil | It's widely assumed that the 'something that everything has been asking for' as said by Sean in the talk last month at FOSdem is wireless. |
| 20:57.31 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: And since there is no dementi from openmoko one could assume they are looking into that option |
| 20:57.45 | hrw | but it is not granted |
| 20:57.46 | SpeedEvil | dementi? |
| 20:57.52 | SpeedEvil | No, it's not. |
| 20:58.04 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 20:58.12 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: :-) |
| 20:58.18 | hrw | and we can tell that v1.5 will have 1G ram |
| 20:58.53 | SpeedEvil | I suppose it could be 3G/UTMS/... |
| 20:59.19 | alphaone | And it will have a v12 |
| 21:00.22 | PBeck | i would have wifi :P |
| 21:00.35 | PBeck | that is the feature that we musst have |
| 21:00.43 | SpeedEvil | I'm probably going to be the first one with wifi I think. |
| 21:00.52 | PBeck | linux without network is how a biker without a bike :P |
| 21:01.00 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: why? |
| 21:02.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: which one is that? |
| 21:02.28 | SpeedEvil | It's a Zydas model. |
| 21:02.47 | SpeedEvil | It seems to be discontinued in that form - it was from ebay. |
| 21:02.58 | SpeedEvil | Zydas are nice in that they do source on the CD. |
| 21:03.12 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: you build out the bluetooth modul? |
| 21:03.24 | SpeedEvil | Yes - I have no BT stuff at the moment. |
| 21:03.27 | aevin | use the source! |
| 21:03.44 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: we look ;) Perhaps we have wifi on board |
| 21:03.58 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 21:04.02 | s34n | PBeck: network = wifi is flawed logic |
| 21:04.10 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe yea, i have a hand full of those, we found that actually the ralink dongles had better power usage and performance |
| 21:04.20 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-86-200.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:04.21 | PBeck | wifi is a feature that we absolute need |
| 21:04.25 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - it does kind of suck with regards to power. |
| 21:04.29 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 21:04.39 | mjr | PBeck, "we" as in you guys there maybe |
| 21:05.01 | SpeedEvil | I was assuming 'smart' power saving. |
| 21:05.07 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the ralink has an ldo you can remove and just run at 3.3v but you void the fcc rating |
| 21:05.19 | SpeedEvil | The zydas too IIRC. |
| 21:05.39 | PBeck | s34n: yes usb ethernet .. super ... |
| 21:05.45 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, but the zydas draws about 40mA more |
| 21:05.49 | PBeck | mjr: you dont need wifi? |
| 21:06.02 | mjr | frankly, no |
| 21:06.12 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: 40mA more without any noticeable difference in performance over the ralink |
| 21:06.23 | mjr | it will be nice when we have wifi-enabled models, but I don't _need_ it |
| 21:06.25 | SpeedEvil | Power saving as in a packet-saving VPN. |
| 21:06.34 | PBeck | voip and all other features how surfing the internet or update easily the programms |
| 21:06.43 | PBeck | that will be very good with wlan |
| 21:06.48 | SpeedEvil | Just login to the AP every few seconds and look for new packets for you. |
| 21:06.55 | s34n | PBeck: it seems to me that battery would be more important than wifi |
| 21:07.02 | PBeck | mjr: what you need? |
| 21:07.09 | mjr | PBeck, yes, but also can be done over bluetooth, gprs or usbnet |
| 21:07.09 | SpeedEvil | You don't have to turn the battery on. |
| 21:07.11 | PBeck | s34n: for what you will use the phone? |
| 21:07.12 | SpeedEvil | Err - wifi on. |
| 21:07.18 | s34n | but wifi would be interesting |
| 21:07.33 | s34n | PBeck: um... calling people? |
| 21:07.34 | aloril | s34n: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:07.40 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I could possibly live with the BT if it was high power. |
| 21:08.06 | PBeck | mjr: gprs is slow. bluetooth ... have you ever seen a bluetooth access point? at home perhaps a good alternative. |
| 21:08.14 | PBeck | s34n: lol |
| 21:08.30 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: actually i'm looking forward to the 88w8388 being available in a standard dongle |
| 21:08.51 | mjr | speed isn't an issue for most stuff on the road really |
| 21:08.53 | PBeck | s34n: than would 350 Dollar to expensive for me :P |
| 21:09.04 | cjb | SpeedEvil: It's the OLPC/XBox 360 wireless chip. |
| 21:09.04 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: libertas chipset from marvell, which is being used in the OLPC to do the mesh networking |
| 21:09.12 | PBeck | i will surf the internet and navigate in the future ;) |
| 21:09.27 | SpeedEvil | speed isn't an issue - but when it's a choice between wifi, or non-existant bletooth APs, or GPRS, wifi looks a lot better. |
| 21:09.29 | PBeck | and of course, organiz my live and sync it with my pc ^^ |
| 21:09.32 | mjr | but of course for home I'll hook it up via my workstation over bt |
| 21:09.33 | s34n | PBeck: I didn't spend $350 for my PC |
| 21:09.49 | mjr | 'course it's better where available |
| 21:10.03 | PBeck | s34n: how you mean? |
| 21:10.04 | mjr | I'm just tired of these people saying that "we" absolutely need it |
| 21:10.43 | s34n | PBeck: $350 is too much to pay for a PDA |
| 21:11.07 | SpeedEvil | If you're in many countries, there is no other way to inexpensively connect on the road. |
| 21:11.14 | s34n | PBeck: but a phone/PDS/usb drive.... |
| 21:11.22 | PBeck | mjr: we musst to satisfy no geeks with a good hardware |
| 21:11.26 | s34n | *PDA |
| 21:11.33 | SpeedEvil | MP3 player, GPS, ... |
| 21:11.45 | PBeck | nobody knows the software or system openmoko |
| 21:11.46 | s34n | right |
| 21:11.49 | PBeck | that is not easy |
| 21:11.55 | mjr | PBeck, newsflash: non-geeks aren't the target group for this release |
| 21:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB30AB9.ipt.aol.com) |
| 21:12.09 | PBeck | we musst show that people that we have many options to do with this hard and software |
| 21:12.39 | PBeck | mjr: hm i think the september relase would be for end user |
| 21:13.03 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=user@a85-156-253-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 21:13.07 | mjr | true enough, we'll see then |
| 21:13.15 | PBeck | and sean mean that we have than a full functional phone |
| 21:13.45 | s34n | PBeck: my father-in-law just showed me what he considered a really cool feature on his cell phone - google weather |
| 21:13.49 | PBeck | when we musst call over the console it would be a geek-phone ... |
| 21:13.57 | s34n | PBeck: no wifi involved |
| 21:14.26 | SpeedEvil | Google-weather, and google-fu of any sort needs GPRS if it has no wifi. |
| 21:14.49 | SpeedEvil | GPRS is $6/Mb here (UK) in many cases. |
| 21:15.00 | PBeck | s34n: gprs is not cheap when we need a flatrate |
| 21:15.22 | SpeedEvil | Flat-rates are some $60 or more. |
| 21:15.25 | PBeck | and when we often use gprs it would be very fast expensive |
| 21:15.34 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: wow very expensive |
| 21:15.40 | SpeedEvil | :( |
| 21:15.42 | s34n | PBeck: he was 1000 miles from his house when he showed me the feature |
| 21:16.01 | PBeck | in germany it would be cheaper |
| 21:16.03 | s34n | PBeck: with no access to his or any other wifi |
| 21:16.23 | PBeck | s34n: with gprs, yes? |
| 21:17.03 | s34n | PBeck: I can only guess. I wasn't actually that interested. |
| 21:17.16 | mjr | one should like to point out that many quite useful network apps don't require a lot of bandwidth |
| 21:17.23 | SpeedEvil | GPRS/wifi is pretty much on-topic for openmoko. |
| 21:17.24 | mjr | rwhitby, it would be nice |
| 21:17.25 | PBeck | s34n: lol |
| 21:17.30 | SpeedEvil | Many apps don't. |
| 21:17.32 | s34n | PBeck: my point was, he didn't have to dhcp an address and think it out |
| 21:17.54 | PBeck | yes of course we need no wifi, it give other options, but this it at time a very usefull technic |
| 21:17.56 | s34n | PBeck: users don't care if it is wifi or tinkerbell |
| 21:18.01 | rwhitby | mjr: and offline download (e.g. imap) and processing on the road is a key use case for me, using bluetooth access points at both ends (work and home) |
| 21:18.01 | SpeedEvil | Much stuff can be compressed down into a 256 byte packet when each side has its own dictionaries. |
| 21:18.37 | mjr | PBeck, yessureitis. |
| 21:18.46 | mjr | </discussion> |
| 21:18.54 | s34n | PBeck: pulling up a list of local SSIDs and surfing on somebody else's net is questionable behavior |
| 21:18.55 | PBeck | lol |
| 21:19.40 | PBeck | i not surf on other official access points .. |
| 21:19.41 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 21:20.01 | PBeck | +not |
| 21:20.12 | zecke | LaF0rge: please apply this http://page.mi.fu-berlin.de/~freyther/autobuild-classes-r0.patch |
| 21:20.17 | s34n | PBeck: only your own? |
| 21:21.06 | s34n | PBeck: or did you want to ad-hoc betweeb phones? |
| 21:21.06 | PBeck | s34n: yes of course. and on public access points |
| 21:21.23 | PBeck | on airports and so on .. |
| 21:21.31 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-b5c96590a285a941) |
| 21:21.33 | PBeck | s34n: how you mean? |
| 21:21.36 | Elrond | s34n - ad-hoc would work via bt too. ;o) |
| 21:21.42 | kn0x | so how does the neo compete/compare to the greenphone? |
| 21:21.51 | s34n | Elrond: exactly |
| 21:21.55 | mjr | ah well |
| 21:22.15 | mjr | kn0x, by being more open, most significantly for me |
| 21:22.38 | Elrond | s34n - Or for security paranoid via mini-a <-> mini-b usb cable. ;) |
| 21:23.10 | s34n | Elrond: I thought the usb wasn't powered |
| 21:23.16 | PBeck | i am be right back |
| 21:23.27 | SpeedEvil | It's not, but you can talk to another neo on it. |
| 21:23.31 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 21:23.39 | Elrond | s34n - It doesn't need to be powered for neo-to-neo. ;) |
| 21:23.49 | s34n | cool |
| 21:24.03 | mjr | the Neos both have their own power, and I'd be really surprised if a Neo didn't know how to talk to an unpowered host |
| 21:24.24 | Elrond | mjr - Right. |
| 21:24.43 | mjr | (this has been a topic on the community list; presumably other self-powered usb gadgets may work too, but that's not to be taken for granted) |
| 21:24.58 | Elrond | Can someone add neo-to-neo-via-usb to the wishlist:p0_review page? |
| 21:25.04 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-43-212.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:25.18 | rwhitby | nslu2 talks happily to the neo |
| 21:25.20 | mjr | there's also reportedly a powered hub that doesn't work with an unpowered host... |
| 21:25.41 | s34n | My point is that I think bluetooth and usbnet meet networking requirements for now. I'd put resources into other things before wifi. |
| 21:26.11 | Elrond | s34n - Yeah, I add to this. |
| 21:26.12 | mjr | s34n, yes that's right; especially adhoc moko-to-moko-comms are important, but handled |
| 21:26.22 | rwhitby | my point is that it's a waste of time discussing the hardware, other than as a wishlist item (and everyone has different wishes). |
| 21:26.42 | rwhitby | the v1 hardware *is* what it is. accept that and start improving the software. |
| 21:26.59 | mjr | yes thanks |
| 21:27.06 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i have a usb ralink usb module i did with two 18650 batteries to power it |
| 21:27.19 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: so i can run the module with a non-powered usb host |
| 21:27.27 | Elrond | rwhitby - Well, the v1 hardware might change in small aspects, if/when we find bugs. ;o) |
| 21:28.29 | mjr | Elrond, yeswell, I won't mention a certain e-mail now since that'd just be fuel to the fire :] |
| 21:28.45 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: http://www.batteryspace.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=3118 |
| 21:29.42 | rwhitby | why do people feel they need to convert other people to their idea of their own wishlist items for the hardware? FIC will make that decision, based on many factors, the least of which will be an individual's wishlist. They already know that many people want wifi. arguing about it isn't going to change their decision very much. they already know the pros and cons much better than the people arguing about it. |
| 21:30.04 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:30.20 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-43-212.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:30.26 | prpplague | rwhitby: agreed |
| 21:30.39 | Elrond | rwhitby - Yep. I don't argue about wifi for that reason. |
| 21:30.52 | prpplague | rwhitby: too many people don't realize that companies make products so they can make money, not please everyone |
| 21:31.26 | Elrond | prpplague - Some companies at least try to please a few people. :-) |
| 21:31.50 | rwhitby | yeah, the people who are getting the money made ... |
| 21:31.52 | prpplague | Elrond: yea, but you can't please everyone and still turn a profit |
| 21:32.09 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 21:33.02 | Elrond | Some companies would make more profit, if they'd do a little "pleasing". But that's another issue, OT. |
| 21:33.19 | prpplague | hehe |
| 21:36.17 | PBeck | rwhitby: yes you are right, but the right hardware and software is at the end the final judgment |
| 21:36.27 | PBeck | if the user buy the phone |
| 21:36.35 | PBeck | or not |
| 21:36.51 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 21:37.02 | rwhitby | yes, but it's a personal decision, the criteria for which varies widely from one person to the next. |
| 21:37.05 | Elrond | PBeck - When it would be that, than my dad wouldn't buy the neo, as it has no IR. ;o) |
| 21:37.27 | rwhitby | so there is no point in trying to change someone else's opinion about it. |
| 21:37.39 | Elrond | Right. |
| 21:37.41 | PBeck | rwhitby: yes, FIC musst find the medium |
| 21:38.01 | rwhitby | and people must accept their decision |
| 21:38.13 | rwhitby | (or make their own hardware for openmoko) |
| 21:38.21 | PBeck | rwhitby: or easy not buy the phone ... |
| 21:38.46 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 21:38.51 | PBeck | to find the medium is not easy, so i think they make here job good |
| 21:39.36 | PBeck | s/here/the |
| 21:40.36 | PBeck | rwhitby: yes we musst accept their decision but i think they would hear our ideas ;) |
| 21:40.52 | PBeck | in hard and software :) |
| 21:41.04 | PBeck | this not mean that the would realize |
| 21:41.13 | PBeck | *they |
| 21:41.33 | Elrond | PBeck - They already know the ideas. |
| 21:41.48 | PBeck | Elrond: all? i dont think so ;) |
| 21:42.06 | Elrond | PBeck - They can read Wishlist:* in the wiki. job done. |
| 21:42.15 | rwhitby | PBeck: there is a clear difference between sending FIC a well-thought-out idea for hardware; vs bickering or complaining that they didn't build the hardware someone wanted. |
| 21:42.17 | PBeck | we have mass on ideas, they would blast the wiki ;) |
| 21:43.01 | rwhitby | the former is constructive, the latter is just hot air |
| 21:43.04 | prpplague | rwhitby: amen |
| 21:43.32 | Elrond | Okay, can we stop this discussion, that leads nowhere? Or can someone wake me up, when it's over? |
| 21:43.43 | rwhitby | Elrond: amen :-) |
| 21:43.51 | PBeck | rwhitby: yes of course |
| 21:44.16 | rwhitby | perhaps someone can make a FAQ out of this discussion ;-) |
| 21:44.34 | PBeck | hm is this a bad discussion? i think a channel is to dicuss about all related to openmoko and neo ;) |
| 21:44.48 | PBeck | *this |
| 21:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org) |
| 21:45.26 | PBeck | we can of course disuss about new cool photos of the neo :D |
| 21:45.32 | PBeck | *discuss |
| 21:45.46 | Elrond | *giggle* |
| 21:45.54 | PBeck | my typos argh -.- |
| 21:46.01 | Elrond | I'm still waiting for a photo of the aux button. ;o) |
| 21:46.07 | PBeck | hehe |
| 21:46.15 | Elrond | And SpeedEvil wants one of the top case from inside. ;o) |
| 21:46.28 | Elrond | (with a ruler nearby) |
| 21:47.30 | rwhitby | my neo is 15km away |
| 21:48.43 | s34n | rwhitby: I guess you don't want to talk about wimax then? :) |
| 21:48.44 | Elrond | s34n - *lol* |
| 21:48.44 | SpeedEvil | Wimax is over-hyped. |
| 21:49.11 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: there is one - check recent additions on the wiki |
| 21:49.22 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ohh. *checking* |
| 21:49.23 | SpeedEvil | Admittedly, from the inside |
| 21:49.27 | rwhitby | s34n: I'm happy to talk about anything in a constuctive manner (i.e. not "why didn't they put wimax on there, *everyone* needs wimax, they won't sell a single device without wimax, ...") |
| 21:49.55 | PBeck | what is wimax? |
| 21:50.36 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54952117.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:50.38 | Elrond | PBeck - over-hyped (to cite SpeedEvil) way of doing wifi with more range. |
| 21:50.43 | *** join/#openmoko timotimo (n=timotimo@216.127.56.5) |
| 21:50.44 | SpeedEvil | It will replace wires for internet access, and be cuter than kittens. |
| 21:50.45 | s34n | rwhitby: how about, "Why don't they do only wimax--nothing else?" |
| 21:51.16 | Elrond | s34n - Because I wouldn't buy it then. ;) |
| 21:51.48 | PBeck | ah ok ;) |
| 21:52.02 | rwhitby | s34n: they probably looked coverage maps vs population densities for their target markets. |
| 21:52.03 | s34n | and these things should come with kittens, too |
| 21:52.15 | ozamosi | Why didn't they include wifi, wimax, edge and 3g? No phone is complete without those :( |
| 21:52.19 | wansti | http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0019680/tmp/vocal_ringtone.mp3 |
| 21:52.20 | SpeedEvil | 60GHz waveband networking'll be interesting. It's inherently limited range, so that you don't get interference from distant stations that you can't decode, and yet have very lare bandwidth. |
| 21:52.33 | wansti | a spontaneous ringtone jam session with my girlfriend ;-) |
| 21:52.34 | SpeedEvil | ge |
| 21:52.59 | SpeedEvil | wget http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0019680/tmp/vocal_ringtone.mp3 |
| 21:53.02 | SpeedEvil | sigh |
| 21:53.24 | wansti | (in german) |
| 21:53.34 | rwhitby | cute |
| 21:53.40 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 21:53.51 | SpeedEvil | Also cute. |
| 21:54.01 | SpeedEvil | She does sound about 8. |
| 21:54.10 | alphaone | lol |
| 21:54.21 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: It sounds post processed |
| 21:54.32 | wansti | the copyright holder hereby prohibits any further use of this file :-) |
| 21:54.36 | SpeedEvil | I can't really properly heat it. |
| 21:54.39 | SpeedEvil | Hear. |
| 21:54.53 | Elrond | wansti - _any_? |
| 21:54.59 | SpeedEvil | I think it's a crumb. |
| 21:55.37 | wansti | Elrond: you are allowed to download it, listen to it, laugh, and delete it ;-) |
| 21:56.02 | Elrond | wansti - Heh, not even copy it? ;) |
| 21:56.05 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-9-14.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:56.10 | Elrond | wansti-drm? ;o) |
| 21:56.11 | SpeedEvil | I'm not sure about vocalesque ringtones. |
| 21:56.19 | wansti | Elrond: nope :-) |
| 21:56.25 | PBeck | wansti: rofl - das ist wirklich gut ;) |
| 21:56.28 | SpeedEvil | I tend to prefer really simple ringtones. |
| 21:57.02 | PBeck | wansti: warst du der "bimmel" ;) |
| 21:57.02 | wansti | PBeck: yup |
| 21:57.26 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: There are plenty people who really like them |
| 21:57.32 | PBeck | wansti: sebr scb+ |
| 21:57.40 | PBeck | wansti: sehr schön. klasse gemacht |
| 21:57.43 | alphaone | And we need general acceptance. :-) |
| 21:57.50 | PBeck | (wollte wieder zu schnell schreiben) |
| 21:57.54 | alphaone | wansti: Now do the frog from MTV :-) |
| 21:58.28 | wansti | alphaone: LOL |
| 21:58.48 | *** join/#openmoko MBitter (n=malbi@p508CFCFB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:58.57 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-89-205.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:59.15 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I'm not saying it's bad. I think that the neo should be for _everyone_. (well, OM) it should have 'tween' settings, with myspace type apps, ... Granny settings with a real rotating dial phone, ... |
| 22:00.00 | cjb | http://www.guardian.co.uk/Columnists/Column/0,,2026580,00.html |
| 22:01.19 | SpeedEvil | Wacky, first page to seggfault FF in a while. |
| 22:01.23 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - geek settings, where you need to know Manually_using_gsm by hard. ;o) |
| 22:01.43 | cjb | SpeedEvil: shame, it's a great page. |
| 22:04.02 | hrw | cu |
| 22:04.21 | SpeedEvil | Apparently random. Works now. |
| 22:04.50 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: I really like the rotating dial phone idea :-) |
| 22:05.06 | SpeedEvil | Another reason for a hardware jog-wheel! |
| 22:06.27 | *** part/#openmoko Sarp (n=Miranda@d50h127.public.uconn.edu) |
| 22:07.06 | SpeedEvil | 'My advice when buying a new product is type in the name of the product along with the word 'crap' into google and see how many hits you get.' |
| 22:07.12 | SpeedEvil | That's damn fine advice. |
| 22:08.10 | aevin | any idea why i get this http://rafb.net/p/P2OU9657.html error when trying to build openmoko-devel-image ? |
| 22:09.04 | rwhitby | aevin: no idea |
| 22:09.44 | MacNorth | is mplayer new to OM, or did i mess the first go-round? |
| 22:10.04 | MacNorth | _miss_ |
| 22:10.10 | rwhitby | new |
| 22:10.27 | rwhitby | new to the image at least |
| 22:11.00 | rwhitby | and LaF0rge took it out of the image a couple of hours ago anyway |
| 22:11.39 | aevin | rwhitby: okay, thanks for looking. i'll update and try to restart the building.) |
| 22:13.32 | balrog-kun | there are already 245 bugs? o_0 |
| 22:13.35 | balrog-kun | hehe |
| 22:14.11 | rwhitby | only 245? I would expect there are 10 times that - they just haven't been found (or injected) yet ... |
| 22:14.25 | cjb | yeah, I was thinking the same. |
| 22:14.27 | aevin | the image i was trying to build is getting old even before it's done. |
| 22:14.28 | alphaone | Yeah |
| 22:14.48 | balrog-kun | i mean 245 revealed bugs ofcourse |
| 22:14.51 | SpeedEvil | This is a _needed_ feature 'a special wobbly typeface so that SMS recipients will be able to tell you're smashed out of your face without you having to waste at least five to nine characters spelling out the word 'drunk' (with optional 'im' and punctuation). |
| 22:15.30 | aevin | when P1 launches there'll probably be a bug storm from all the testers. |
| 22:16.30 | balrog-kun | 245 bugs in a couple of weeks is either an extremely buggy or extremely popular project |
| 22:17.45 | balrog-kun | alphaone: have you tried to reproduce this with soft-lockup detect enabled? |
| 22:18.55 | rwhitby | balrog-kun: the bugzilla was used internally before P0 |
| 22:18.56 | alphaone | balrog-kun: Not yet. |
| 22:21.58 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-89-205.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:27.15 | wansti | http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0019680/tmp/windstille-nightfall.ogg |
| 22:27.35 | wansti | nothing openmoko-related, just something i made for an open source game |
| 22:27.44 | wansti | ...in case anyone's interested |
| 22:28.59 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-34-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 22:36.08 | *** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@84-74-83-99.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:45.33 | PBeck | wansti: good work :) |
| 22:45.42 | PBeck | how you make this? |
| 22:46.57 | PBeck | which game is it? |
| 22:47.24 | wansti | PBeck: Windstille, an action adventure game that is currently in the making |
| 22:48.32 | PBeck | http://windstille.berlios.de/screenshots.html <= that? |
| 22:48.35 | wansti | how i make it? you mean, with what tools? or composing techniques? |
| 22:48.39 | wansti | yep, that |
| 22:48.47 | SuN | Interesting place for that major chord :) |
| 22:49.21 | wansti | PBeck: although those screenshots are pretty outdated |
| 22:49.49 | SuN | I like the scheme, are you going to add percussion though? |
| 22:50.03 | PBeck | wansti: both |
| 22:50.40 | wansti | btw, here's a redone version of the SuperTux "level done" sound... I currently have a monophonic version of that as an SMS sound on my ME45: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0019680/tmp/leveldone.ogg |
| 22:50.53 | wansti | this one's like the "royal mail" version :-P |
| 22:51.25 | PBeck | wansti: oh that is cool :D |
| 22:51.33 | wansti | SuN: thanks! about the percussion, i'm not quite sure yet... i'll have to experiment with it a bit and see how it sounds |
| 22:53.02 | wansti | PBeck: as far as tools go, i use Rosegarden as a sequencer, Audacity for recording, a MIDI master keyboard and a hardware tone generator |
| 22:53.35 | SuN | Though with some synths and a good beat, the scheme would be very suited for a techno-rock kind of style as well. |
| 22:54.15 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:54.20 | SuN | Hi |
| 22:54.30 | wansti | as for technique, most of the times i work from top (i.e. melody) to bottom (i.e. percussion) - whenever i can think of a nice melody i write it down and build up the rest around it |
| 22:54.41 | PBeck | wansti: ah ok |
| 22:54.58 | SuN | That's how I would approach it as well, I think. |
| 22:55.02 | aevin | hmm. now another build error: http://rafb.net/p/PklopQ47.html any obvious diagnosis? seems too be an extra trailing slash. how to strip it off? |
| 22:55.03 | PBeck | wansti: you can make a openmoko start sound :D |
| 22:55.10 | wansti | sometimes, however, i do it exactly the other way around: start with a nice percussion loop and then build a baseline and a melody on top of that |
| 22:55.34 | wansti | SuN: interesting idea, i'll play around with that a bit |
| 22:55.52 | wansti | PBeck: yeah, i'd like to do that |
| 22:56.07 | PBeck | wansti: i think you would make your job very good ;) |
| 22:56.19 | SuN | I can almost hear the synth arpeggio in my mind :D |
| 22:56.26 | aevin | wansti: do you compose on your computer (with a tracker or something) or do you use a lot of extra hardware, sequencer, keyboard etc? |
| 22:56.27 | wansti | PBeck: but it has to capture the spirit of the project... which means, i'll have to hang around some more :-) |
| 22:56.27 | PBeck | create a wikipage ;) |
| 22:56.35 | zecke | aevin: you really build on a i486? |
| 22:57.15 | PBeck | wansti: yes ;) |
| 22:57.35 | aevin | wansti: i see you almost just answered my question. |
| 22:57.51 | wansti | aevin: at the moment, i do all the composing in software (i.e. Rosegarden) |
| 22:58.23 | aevin | zecke: it's a i686. i am trying to build it for using it with Xoo/Xnest. |
| 22:58.35 | wansti | although i use the keyboard to play around with melodies, of course |
| 22:59.20 | wansti | unfortunately, it's pretty hard to find hardware that fully works with linux |
| 22:59.41 | zecke | aevin: then change BUILD_ARCH, I doubt Mr. Drepper supports i486 |
| 23:00.04 | zecke | aevin: feel free to pastebin your config.log to see why it thought it can't build a shared library |
| 23:00.04 | aevin | the build/conf/local.conf file is for bitbake, right? is there another .conf file in addition to that one? |
| 23:00.45 | wansti | everything that is compliant to standards like MIDI works fine, of course... but all the little extras of the hardware - those are quite hard to get to work |
| 23:00.48 | aevin | zecke: my local.conf has BUILD_ARCH="i686", MACHINE="x86", DISTRO="openmoko" |
| 23:00.50 | wansti | ...if at all |
| 23:01.05 | zecke | aevin: interesting |
| 23:01.08 | SuN | wansti: what kind of extras are you talking about? |
| 23:01.35 | aevin | zecke: is there another config file that i am missing somewhere? |
| 23:02.01 | wansti | SuN: for example, for the tone generator there's a windows/mac software that lets you save presets, effect settings and such |
| 23:02.07 | zecke | aevin: unlikely, I wonder why it thinks you are on a i486 |
| 23:02.25 | wansti | so if you open a piece in your win/mac software, presets are automatically loaded |
| 23:02.31 | aevin | hm. perhaps i have some other env variables saying that.. *check* |
| 23:02.37 | SuN | Hm alright... no way to do that with sysex dumps? |
| 23:02.39 | *** join/#openmoko quitte_ (n=quitte@stgt-d9beb2df.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 23:02.56 | wansti | this doesn't work in linux, so if i use any of the effects, i have to set up the tone generator manually every time |
| 23:03.03 | PBeck | so i go offline now |
| 23:03.03 | PBeck | bye |
| 23:03.10 | SuN | Bye |
| 23:03.13 | wansti | bye |
| 23:04.47 | wansti | so anyway... what should the "Official OpenMoko Startup Jingle" sound like? |
| 23:05.12 | wansti | geeky, undoubtedly :-P |
| 23:05.28 | aevin | zecke: after a failing run of make openmoko-devel-image should the variables in local.conf be exported into the shell or not? at least i can't find them. |
| 23:05.39 | wansti | any suggestions? |
| 23:05.56 | aevin | maybe my config fails and then it defaults to i486? |
| 23:06.04 | aevin | somehow. |
| 23:06.24 | zecke | aevin: the variables will not be exported to your shell |
| 23:06.35 | aevin | okay. |
| 23:06.55 | aevin | i only have $BBPATH and $OMDIR exported. |
| 23:07.02 | SuN | My only suggestion would be "short and unobtrusive", I guess, but I like my phones to be subtle. |
| 23:07.05 | zecke | aevin: uname -a says i486 right? |
| 23:07.22 | aevin | no. |
| 23:07.24 | aevin | aevin@mango:/home/moko$ uname -a |
| 23:07.26 | aevin | Linux mango 2.6.17-11-386 #2 Thu Feb 1 19:50:13 UTC 2007 i686 GNU/Linux |
| 23:07.55 | aevin | i am running the generic kernel for SMP (core duo). |
| 23:08.14 | aevin | i thought. hmm. |
| 23:09.40 | zecke | aevin: start python type import os\nprint os.uname()[3] (\n means press enter, return or whatever key you have to do this) |
| 23:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko quitte__ (n=quitte@stgt-d9beb38c.pool.mediaWays.net) |
| 23:10.28 | rwhitby | aevin: if using mokomakefile, source setup-env to get the variables |
| 23:11.15 | aevin | rwhitby: yes, but that's also sourced when doing make openmoko-devel-image, right? |
| 23:11.34 | zecke | do you guys have something like a wiki maintainer? ChangeLog and the Build Description needs syncing |
| 23:12.12 | aevin | zecke: ('Linux', 'mango', '2.6.17-11-386', '#2 Thu Feb 1 19:50:13 UTC 2007', 'i686') |
| 23:12.54 | aevin | seems like i'm not running the kernel i thought i did. i'll reboot and pick the right one with grub. |
| 23:12.57 | aevin | :) |
| 23:13.23 | zecke | aevin: but there is still no sign for i486 |
| 23:13.37 | zecke | aevin: before you reboot, please pastebin the config.lof of libreadelf |
| 23:14.26 | zecke | ~lart bugzilla |
| 23:15.35 | zecke | CoreDump|home: what feature do you miss? |
| 23:15.46 | CoreDump|home | xml exports =) |
| 23:16.05 | CoreDump|home | and the default interface of bugzilla is awful |
| 23:16.10 | CoreDump|home | oe.org rocks |
| 23:16.23 | rwhitby | aevin: sourced, but inside a new shell, so not exported I don't think. |
| 23:16.38 | rwhitby | (not exported outside the make process) |
| 23:16.38 | Elrond | "In a recent survey, the number one use people have for their phones is telling the time, making up something like 80% of phone usage.".... tihi... how true. |
| 23:17.15 | zecke | CoreDump|home: there is no bugzilla backport for debian stable, so we need to stop sabotaging the etch release |
| 23:17.24 | alphaone | wansti: It should sound open. |
| 23:17.49 | CoreDump|home | zecke: to bad :\ |
| 23:18.03 | CoreDump|home | !ombug 245 |
| 23:18.04 | cdbot2 | * * Bug 245, Status: , Created: |
| 23:18.05 | alphaone | wansti: Final frontier kind of |
| 23:18.05 | cdbot2 | * * : |
| 23:18.06 | cdbot2 | * * http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/show_bug.cgi?id=245 |
| 23:18.11 | CoreDump|home | ^^^ no xml ;) |
| 23:18.20 | SuN | It should feature excerpts from the Free Software Song too! |
| 23:20.30 | aevin | Elrond: how do we best fix that when the screen is hardly readable without backlight? we'll perhaps need to make the light go on without having to unlock it, just to check the time .. ? |
| 23:21.20 | SpeedEvil | stroke it for the time? |
| 23:21.40 | wansti | alphaone: yeah... |
| 23:21.41 | SpeedEvil | just a drag all the way across the screen lights it up for 10s? |
| 23:22.01 | wansti | the Free Software Song? |
| 23:22.54 | aevin | wansti: check the video at youtube / google video. |
| 23:22.57 | SuN | Don't... actually make it sound like that, I was kidding :) |
| 23:23.52 | wansti | actually, the SuperTux Theme contains a baseline made from the melody of the decss song, with the main melody of the theme built on top of that |
| 23:24.35 | wansti | nobody ever noticed, but it's still very, very geeky :-) |
| 23:25.17 | wansti | ...so you see, you could actually incorporate the Free Software Song without having it sound like it |
| 23:25.27 | aevin | zecke: sorry, i already rebooted. i'm in generic (SMP) kernel now. still interested in those files? (i havent restarted the building yet) |
| 23:25.37 | zecke | aevin: sure |
| 23:26.13 | aevin | zecke: do you know ~where they're suppose to be located? |
| 23:26.17 | *** join/#openmoko apadiss (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:26.47 | Elrond | aevin - My current phone does that. If I press the "power-off"-button long enough: 1) it switches to the unlock screen and turns the light on 2) After a a sec, it switches back to the lock'd screen (which has the round clock on it) and the light is still on. |
| 23:27.27 | zecke | aevin: tmp/work/i486-linux/libreadelf*? |
| 23:27.32 | Elrond | s/powrr-off/power-off|on/ |
| 23:27.58 | Elrond | Hey? apt has stopped doing s/.../ ? |
| 23:28.18 | SuN | My E680i displays a clock if you hold the camera button for a while, it stays locked though, the clock stays visible for a few seconds. |
| 23:28.36 | SuN | Or rather, the backlight stays on for a few seconds :) |
| 23:29.01 | aevin | zecke: there's no libreadelf* there :-( |
| 23:29.59 | zecke | aevin: hehe, it was libelf |
| 23:30.05 | aevin | i got that :) |
| 23:30.17 | zecke | aevin: and according to your log it is in /home/moko/build/tmp/work/i486-linux/libelf-0.8.6-r0/ |
| 23:30.17 | Elrond | SuN - is it a nice round (analog) clock? |
| 23:31.36 | SuN | Yep |
| 23:31.41 | Elrond | :-) |
| 23:32.28 | SuN | It's more or less xclock with a background pixmap. |
| 23:33.51 | *** join/#openmoko davi (i=davi@41.Red-217-127-236.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 23:34.39 | aevin | zecke: here's config.log http://rafb.net/p/KboEQw90.html |
| 23:34.50 | aevin | i'll restart the i686 build now. |
| 23:35.35 | zecke | aevin: line 1611: configure:8688: WARNING: shared libraries not supported for i486-pc-linux-gnu |
| 23:38.41 | aevin | yeah. but i still don't quite get why it thinks the host is i486. |
| 23:39.06 | aevin | but i'll give it another try. thanks for the help! :-) |
| 23:41.10 | zecke | aevin: ask for refund and a real core duo? but yes this is a interesting question |
| 23:42.12 | *** join/#openmoko lincman (n=LINCMAN@adsl-216-102-232-14.dsl.lsan03.pacbell.net) |
| 23:43.04 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 23:43.45 | lincman | so whats new and exciting on the moko front today? |
| 23:44.48 | wansti | about the startup sound... |
| 23:45.02 | wansti | ...does anyone have a free sample of the sound of a V12 engine? :-) |
| 23:45.12 | lincman | heheh |
| 23:45.26 | lincman | maybe it should be a jet winding up |
| 23:45.38 | aevin | zecke: lol. it _is_ a real core duo ;-) |
| 23:45.56 | zecke | aevin: a Co Processor does not qualify as CoreDuo |
| 23:48.03 | lincman | so how many here have the P0 unit? |
| 23:51.48 | lincman | that many huh? |
| 23:53.52 | aevin | hm. the OE build config lists the BB+OE version, target arch, target os, machine, distro etc..., i.e. TARGET_ARCH="i486" , while my local.conf had BUILD_ARCH="i686" ( TARGET_ARCH unset) |
| 23:54.12 | lincman | is there a list of what people are actually working on? |
| 23:54.16 | aevin | lincman: there's 36 P0 developers that's got their Neo shipped. |
| 23:54.36 | lincman | aevin, how many are here tho |
| 23:55.45 | aevin | lincman: i think it varies, different time zones etc. perhaps 15? (some are idleing) |
| 23:56.05 | lincman | cool |
| 23:56.14 | lincman | are you one of them aevin? |
| 23:57.18 | aevin | lincman: no, I am waiting for P1. |
| 23:57.59 | aevin | lincman: have you seen the wiki website? |
| 23:58.07 | lincman | is there a good place to watch who is doing what? |
| 23:58.12 | lincman | aevin yes |
