| 00:00.06 | Elrond | Please remove the link to it from the Main Page then (if it's still there... my browser is closed, my bed waits.) |
| 00:00.28 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: good night |
| 00:01.42 | Elrond | hihi. ;) I'm closing my apps. irc is last ;o) |
| 00:04.24 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 00:05.11 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Well, this terminal is next to my bed. ;) |
| 00:05.15 | Elrond | Anyway: Good night. :) |
| 00:05.30 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 00:05.44 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
| 00:27.29 | pjz | Anyone able to get MokoMakefile to work? |
| 00:27.43 | cjb | yup |
| 00:28.20 | cjb | vmaster: Right, you only *need* JTAG in that situation, but the devirginator uses it for all of those things anyway. |
| 00:28.29 | cjb | Which is why I was kinda reluctant to use it. |
| 00:28.38 | vmaster | ah, ok |
| 00:28.56 | vmaster | well, you should be fine with your debug board, if it's got the FT2232D on it |
| 00:29.27 | rwhitby | 3/6/2007 7:28 am Arrived at DHL facility. Singapore, Singapore |
| 00:29.29 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 00:29.44 | cjb | vmaster: Yup, it does. |
| 00:30.03 | sixfeet | ok n8 alle |
| 00:30.35 | rwhitby | my neo arrived in singapore 1 hour ago |
| 00:31.24 | LoDown | rwhitby: where do you live? |
| 00:31.29 | rwhitby | Adelaide, Australia |
| 00:31.34 | LoDown | ah... |
| 00:31.38 | *** part/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
| 00:31.43 | LoDown | so still a ways to go until it gets to you :( |
| 00:31.48 | rwhitby | I doubt I'll get it today. But definitely first thing tomorrow morning. |
| 00:32.09 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 00:33.57 | rwhitby | pjz: many people. pastebin your full log if your having problems |
| 00:35.19 | pjz | rwhitby: will od, I'm retrying to get a 'fresh' failure :) |
| 00:37.42 | pjz | mtpaint failure in ./configure |
| 00:37.47 | pjz | | http://pastebin.ca/382940 |
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| 00:39.10 | cjb | pjz: perhaps your /bin/sh is not bash? |
| 00:39.29 | pjz | omfg, stupid stupid ubuntu! |
| 00:39.36 | pjz | cjb: good catch |
| 00:40.01 | cjb | huh. so what *is* ubuntu's sh? :) |
| 00:40.08 | pjz | 'dash' |
| 00:40.13 | cjb | haha |
| 00:40.14 | pjz | whatever that is |
| 00:40.35 | Clint | don't you mean stupid, stupid, unportable shell script? |
| 00:40.45 | pjz | honestly, it's really.. yeah Clint |
| 00:40.52 | rwhitby | yeah Clint is right |
| 00:40.59 | nbd | in openwrt we just use bash for compiling all the packages |
| 00:41.11 | rwhitby | hmm - now that OM is tracking OE, we should be able to fix that. |
| 00:41.31 | Clint | it's very simple to make that line posix-conformant |
| 00:41.51 | nbd | pjz: nice theory :) |
| 00:41.58 | vmaster | dash - The Debian Almquist Shell |
| 00:42.04 | vmaster | never noticed I was using that :) |
| 00:42.14 | pjz | heh |
| 00:42.44 | pjz | yeah, sorry, i'm newish to ubuntu though I've been running debian since 0.9 or so |
| 00:42.54 | cjb | pjz: if you don't hack MokoMakefile, please update the wiki page at least. |
| 00:42.58 | rwhitby | Clint: can you create a patch? |
| 00:43.13 | rwhitby | we can patch it in OE now |
| 00:43.32 | cjb | cool. (though we don't know that that's the only non-conformant script) |
| 00:44.13 | rwhitby | (it's probably not, but that's the correct place to fix it (as well as upstream)) |
| 00:44.25 | cjb | yup. |
| 00:44.39 | pjz | you could test with a virtual machine instance someplace |
| 00:45.42 | rwhitby | pjz: what actual file has that bad line? |
| 00:46.46 | cjb | rwhitby: looks like mtpaint's ./configure |
| 00:46.51 | cjb | dunno if that's generated or shipped |
| 00:47.02 | rwhitby | which line? |
| 00:47.09 | cjb | 49 |
| 00:47.20 | cjb | did you see the pastebin link? it's in there. |
| 00:47.57 | rwhitby | ok, see it now. |
| 00:48.26 | rwhitby | well, if someone (i.e. someone who wants to use ubuntu dash) wants to create a patch to fix that, I can add it to OE. |
| 00:49.04 | pjz | rwhitby: it's not that someone wants to use dash as much as it is that by default ubuntu's /bin/sh is a symlink to dash, not bash. |
| 00:49.34 | rwhitby | right, so we need someone with that (who hasn't changed it to bash yet) to create and test a patch |
| 00:49.58 | pjz | ack, I just fixed it |
| 00:50.25 | pjz | and IIRC it takes a few hours from blank to get there |
| 00:50.26 | rwhitby | the configure script looks hand written, not generated. |
| 00:50.51 | pjz | though if you can tell me what parts of oe to delete to make it get rebuilt I could do that |
| 00:51.14 | rwhitby | I believe it is mentioned in step 1 of http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro <- did you not read that? |
| 00:51.15 | pjz | some set of stamps and subdirs I'm sure would do the trick |
| 00:51.48 | rwhitby | (step 1 of http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile, which points to http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro) |
| 00:52.21 | pjz | hrm, not since that was added, apparently |
| 00:52.38 | pjz | or I missed it if so; I first tried this about 3 wks ago |
| 00:52.58 | rwhitby | (cd build ; source ../setup-env ; bitbake -c clean mtpaint) should do it |
| 00:54.26 | pjz | okay, did that, now retrying the make |
| 00:54.31 | pjz | (which should fail) |
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| 01:21.16 | pjz | okay, it failed, and I replaced the "if [ foo ]" with "if test foo" |
| 01:21.30 | pjz | is there a better POSIX construct I should use? |
| 01:21.54 | rwhitby | Clint ? |
| 01:22.07 | peepsalot | i don't understand why there is a need for ideas here: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code when this page already exists: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wish_List |
| 01:22.17 | peepsalot | can't we just pick from the existing list? |
| 01:22.46 | rwhitby | I think Google SOC projects have to be within the realms of feasibility ... |
| 01:23.22 | rwhitby | (i.e. any wishlist items which cannot be done with phase1 hardware would be excluded |
| 01:23.34 | rwhitby | and there needs to be a mentor too |
| 01:24.38 | cjb | ah, I hadn't seen that list |
| 01:24.50 | cjb | sure, items from that list that can be done in three months should go on the SoC list |
| 01:24.57 | cjb | and the SoC list page should link to that page |
| 01:27.00 | rwhitby | jebba: my rebuild is up to uboot |
| 01:27.31 | jebba | rwhitby, mine died on: CROSS COMPILE Badness: /usr/include in INCLUDEPATH: /usr/include/X11/Xtrans |
| 01:27.32 | jebba | | cc1: internal compiler error: in add_path, at c-incpath.c:362 |
| 01:28.12 | rwhitby | jebba: which recipe? |
| 01:28.18 | jebba | libx11-X11R7 |
| 01:28.46 | rwhitby | do you have the libx11-dev package installed on the host? |
| 01:28.50 | jebba | I haven't looked into it yet though, i just see it stopped there. x86_64 on etch, fwiw |
| 01:29.17 | jebba | yes, version 1.0.3-5 |
| 01:29.38 | rwhitby | hmm - dunno then |
| 01:30.12 | rwhitby | that'd be one for #oe (once you've debugged a bit further), since it's not an openmoko-specific package |
| 01:30.30 | jebba | ya, i can completely blow things out too...and start fresh |
| 01:36.49 | *** join/#openmoko greentux__ (n=lemke@Z65e9.z.pppool.de) |
| 01:39.03 | Clint | rwhitby: http://paste.debian.net/23151 |
| 01:39.04 | Clint | pjz: ^ |
| 01:40.15 | rwhitby | how about the 'function' stuff? |
| 01:40.45 | Clint | oh, that's bad too |
| 01:41.56 | Clint | rwhitby: http://paste.debian.net/23152 |
| 01:42.25 | Clint | should i yell at mtpaint upstream? |
| 01:44.26 | Clint | also >& is bad.. was that in 3.02? |
| 01:45.02 | pjz | yeah |
| 01:45.07 | pjz | what should it be? |
| 01:46.01 | Clint | >/dev/null 2>&1 |
| 01:46.25 | rwhitby | Clint: yeah, getting it fixed upstream would be great. |
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| 01:46.58 | pjz | okay, testing those fixes with dash |
| 01:47.18 | rwhitby | actually, an easier fix might be just to add "#!/bin/bash" at the top of the configure script |
| 01:47.35 | rwhitby | (until upstream fixes it) |
| 01:47.41 | Clint | rwhitby: okay, i'll email a patch to mtpaint-devel for 3.10 |
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| 02:02.45 | peepsalot | does anyone know what sort of processing power would be required for realtime ogg encoding? if it is feasible? would not have to be very high quality. |
| 02:03.09 | cjb | guess you mean vorbis. should be entirely feasible. |
| 02:03.23 | peepsalot | yeah ogg vorbis |
| 02:03.56 | rwhitby | robtaylor: ping |
| 02:04.46 | loufoque | does openmoko make use of the new ASoC kernel feature ? |
| 02:05.00 | jipi | peepsalot: what's your realtime speecs like? |
| 02:05.15 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 02:05.44 | pjz | Clint: those mods make it work fine under dash |
| 02:05.45 | peepsalot | jipi, i don't know what you mean, i just was thinking for recording conversation, because uncompressed wav would fill the ram very quickly |
| 02:05.55 | cjb | loufoque: what's ASoC? |
| 02:06.11 | cjb | loufoque: openmoko's synced up with upstream, so I suppose it will, if the feature's relevant/supported. |
| 02:06.16 | loufoque | ALSA System on Chip |
| 02:06.27 | robtaylor | rwhitby: pong |
| 02:07.01 | pjz | rwhitby: I just verified that clint's mods make mtpaint work under dash |
| 02:07.01 | jipi | peepsalot: i mean how realtime, or how much time between start encoding and end decoding for streaming |
| 02:07.20 | SpeedEvil | mp3 at 64k is just fine |
| 02:07.29 | rwhitby | robtaylor: just had a discussion with LaF0rge about the "end-user prebuilt image" idea we were talking about the other day. |
| 02:07.39 | rwhitby | the take-aways are: |
| 02:07.55 | rwhitby | 1) no proprietary software, so make it a chroot rather than a vmware image |
| 02:08.16 | rwhitby | 2) use debian sarge and updated svn/monotone where required (cause that's what the OM autobuilders will be using) |
| 02:08.19 | SpeedEvil | UML? |
| 02:08.51 | robtaylor | rwhitby: sounds sensible |
| 02:09.01 | robtaylor | hmm, sarge isn;t sensible though] |
| 02:09.11 | rwhitby | 3) he's has no opinion on MokoMakefile, but is not negative towards it |
| 02:09.44 | SpeedEvil | Signed image? |
| 02:09.48 | cjb | rwhitby: this is to run on hardware, or normal desktops? |
| 02:09.58 | pjz | from experience I can say that something MokoMakefile-ish is very helpful in general |
| 02:10.00 | rwhitby | cjb: normal desktops, for end users. |
| 02:10.03 | robtaylor | I'd prefer to be demoing open embedded, rather than the openmoko svn |
| 02:10.13 | cjb | ah. |
| 02:10.34 | rwhitby | robtaylor: as of today, mokomakefile is tracking latest OE head (and openmoko svn head) |
| 02:11.22 | robtaylor | ooh, rock |
| 02:11.32 | robtaylor | ok, lets just ignore mokomakefile |
| 02:12.13 | rwhitby | robtaylor: right - whether or not you use mokomakefile to set up the environment will be irrelevant to the end-user of the environment. |
| 02:12.49 | robtaylor | yeah |
| 02:13.06 | rwhitby | (obviously, I think MokoMakefile will be useful for end-user maintenance of the environment, and for easy updates of the environment source for subsequent releases of the image) |
| 02:13.09 | robtaylor | we'd be talking a chroot with OE already checkedout and built |
| 02:13.21 | jebba | rwhitby, could be kvm image easily enough too |
| 02:13.47 | rwhitby | robtaylor: CoreDump|home might have a present for you |
| 02:13.52 | robtaylor | whatever's easiest for users to get going fast |
| 02:13.55 | robtaylor | rwhitby: oh? |
| 02:14.39 | rwhitby | I'll let him talk to you about it :-) |
| 02:14.40 | jebba | my setup is openmoko in a vserver. A copy of that is basically a chroot too. |
| 02:14.54 | CoreDump|home | rob I have debian testing chroot running oe and compiling OM and SlugOS running here |
| 02:15.22 | CoreDump|home | if you are not in a hurry I could probably upload it |
| 02:17.13 | [g2] | CoreDump|home / rwhitby any status on qemu version of OM ? |
| 02:17.55 | CoreDump|home | [g2]: people were already build qemu images for the neo in the past |
| 02:18.28 | [g2] | CoreDump|home I'm wondering if that's in the current OE build |
| 02:18.44 | [g2] | i.e. not already folded into the borg yet |
| 02:19.09 | [g2] | rwhitby have a good lunch |
| 02:19.35 | *** part/#openmoko dirakx (n=pilar@69.79.145.81) |
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| 02:19.54 | CoreDump|home | [g2]: I have not looked into qemu yet I'm afraid. As koen|away nicely put it: Running OM on an emulator is rather pointless (as OM can be compiled for x86) |
| 02:21.29 | [g2] | CoreDump|home it depends on whether one is trying to debug the target or the x86 environment. |
| 02:22.10 | CoreDump|home | koen|away: So maybe we get the cool "lunchbox" box after all? "* Carrying Case" |
| 02:22.31 | jebba | [g2], you can build for a qemuarm MACHINE in OM/OE easily enough |
| 02:22.46 | CoreDump|home | there was a rather insightful email on the mailinglist about emulators and developing stuff |
| 02:25.40 | Clint | pjz: cool |
| 02:26.15 | pjz | Clint: so send that to whoever :) |
| 02:28.14 | Psi | well. new to me, only just checked my email :P |
| 02:30.12 | rwhitby | Psi: http://pastebin.ca/382747 |
| 02:30.59 | pjz | so it looks like the bluez-libs got upgraded on the source site, thereby breaking the build; what do folk do when this happens? it's got to be fairly common |
| 02:31.25 | Psi | rwhitby, nice |
| 02:32.02 | robtaylor | CoreDump|home: wow, brilliant :) |
| 02:32.06 | *** join/#openmoko ping_tu (n=ping_tt2@61.185.246.242) |
| 02:32.39 | Psi | hehe must be the first-time-ever any cellphone company shipped tools with the product so people could take it apart :P |
| 02:33.02 | rwhitby | not a product yet |
| 02:33.08 | Psi | true |
| 02:33.36 | Psi | but people are still going to want to add things to the phone even when it is a product |
| 02:33.46 | mitcheloc | has anyone seen the phone in person? |
| 02:33.55 | robtaylor | CoreDump|home: no hurry at all, btw |
| 02:34.13 | cjb | mitcheloc: sure. |
| 02:34.15 | Psi | obviously not everyone though |
| 02:34.34 | CoreDump|home | robtaylor: ok, I'll let you know when the upload is done |
| 02:34.44 | mitcheloc | i was just wondering, i saw it last week |
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| 02:35.17 | Psi | interesting, they shipped a 128mb sdcard instead of 512mb |
| 02:35.39 | Psi | not that it matters, id imagine everyone will be going and buying a 2gb anyway :P |
| 02:36.06 | robtaylor | CoreDump|home: rock :) |
| 02:36.07 | Psi | anyone who wants more than 128 i mean |
| 02:38.21 | rwhitby | jebba: libx11-X11R7.1-1.0.1 failed for me too - will debug later |
| 02:38.44 | jebba | ok. glad i can shirk that one ;) |
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| 02:44.15 | pjz | how do I find a recipe to deal with bluze 3.9 instead of 3.4 ? |
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| 03:05.28 | aevin | have you seen http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/ChangeLog ? |
| 03:07.18 | aevin | which time zone is LaF0rge in, since he's already writing March 8 -- or perhaps he's just writing the changelog before doing the actual changes? ;-) |
| 03:08.01 | aevin | ... minor details, i know :) |
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| 03:44.50 | aloril | based on http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-March/000006.html |
| 03:44.55 | aloril | counter |
| 03:44.55 | aloril | P1: 3 weeks, 5 days 08:15:05 (26.344 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (479) |
| 03:44.56 | aloril | counter? |
| 03:44.56 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 5 days 08:15:03 (26.344 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 3 days (194.344 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (480) |
| 03:46.21 | aloril | (moved P1 estimate 5 days sooner than previous one and reduced uncertainty from +-10 to +-7) |
| 03:46.46 | aloril | this is sample quantity though... |
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| 04:08.42 | jipi | when can we start to preorder for phase 1? |
| 04:11.32 | aloril | jipi: dunno |
| 04:11.48 | aloril | 1-3 weeks from now? (wild guess) |
| 04:12.32 | jipi | aloril: thanks |
| 04:13.42 | kmeyer | phase 1 == september mass distrobution phase? |
| 04:15.51 | aloril | kmeyer: that is Phase 2 |
| 04:16.17 | kmeyer | oh, whoop |
| 04:16.18 | kmeyer | s |
| 04:17.15 | aloril | from mail linked above: "We have finalized the next revision called GTA01Bv4, which we expect to |
| 04:17.15 | aloril | be available in sample quantities roughly at the end of the month. |
| 04:17.15 | aloril | Let's hope this time we got everything right and can immediately proceed |
| 04:17.15 | aloril | to producing larger quantities." |
| 04:18.06 | aloril | ==Phase 1 |
| 04:21.28 | aloril | jipi: note that I have no access to internal information, just making 'sensible' guess ;-) |
| 04:22.01 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 04:22.30 | aloril | (lower limit: maybe want to have P0 out so reviews, upper limit: closer to availability is not that much pre-order) |
| 04:22.55 | aloril | but I guess real reason for pre-order not being available is that they aren't yet sure when they can deliver |
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| 04:48.55 | cbpage | hopefully the next spin'll work out of the box! |
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| 05:00.06 | aloril | this was already known, but "...and of course the OpenMoko phone being shown. I forgot about the first two and there wasn’t anymore room in the rather small auditorium, since everyone wanted to see the Neo1973." from http://www.kjoller.eu/?p=10 |
| 05:00.14 | aloril | (FOSDEM 2007) |
| 05:02.06 | aloril | (in case you haven't followed http://planet.openmoko.org : http://www.hrw.one.pl/2007/03/05/my-neo1973-has-been-sent/ ) |
| 05:02.23 | aloril | other new link from there was already pasted by koen here earlier |
| 05:06.12 | aloril | a bit like doing here at IRC, but a bit more 'permanent', but more discussion like than blog |
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| 05:14.55 | aloril | openmoko mentioned among predictions: http://www.todaysten.com/2007/03/top-10-predication-of-new-uses-for-your.html |
| 05:16.45 | *** part/#openmoko pingu (i=pingu@gentoo/developer/pingu) |
| 05:21.32 | rwhitby | Hmm still "3/6/2007 7:28 am Arrived at DHL facility. Singapore, Singapore" |
| 05:21.35 | aevin | aloril: interesting :) even second place! |
| 05:24.33 | aevin | pjz: did you figure it out? |
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| 05:44.04 | Psi | rwhitby, you are gonna be pulling your hair out if you login and it says "3/7/2007 9:28 am Package Stolen!. Singapore Police, Singapore" :P |
| 05:44.40 | rwhitby | you bet! |
| 05:45.21 | Ycros | once I was getting a package shipped to me by dhl, and it kept saying that |
| 05:45.23 | rwhitby | it's been in singapore for over 5 hours. |
| 05:45.26 | Ycros | and then the package just arrived |
| 05:45.37 | Ycros | and I checked the website and it still said that |
| 05:45.44 | Ycros | after I had the package in my hand |
| 05:45.46 | rwhitby | I hope they are just waiting for an overnight direct flight from singapore to adelaide. |
| 05:45.47 | Psi | hehe |
| 05:46.06 | rwhitby | (rather than going through sydney) |
| 05:46.21 | Ycros | mine was stuck in the sydney one |
| 05:46.22 | Ycros | heh |
| 05:46.29 | Ycros | but I am in sydney |
| 05:47.10 | Psi | do we know what the final neo will sell for? |
| 05:47.11 | rwhitby | yeah, the local office I can understand, cause the courier downloads the results at the end of the run probably. |
| 05:47.13 | Psi | or even a rough idea |
| 05:47.34 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:47.59 | Ycros | rwhitby: they could have said "despatched to courier" |
| 05:48.00 | Ycros | or something |
| 05:48.06 | Ycros | so I could expect a courier |
| 05:48.17 | rwhitby | yeah |
| 05:49.49 | Psi | would be cool to put a camera + roaming cellphone into a cardboard box and send it around the world. So you could browse to its web address and view what it sees at any time |
| 05:52.20 | Psi | expensive, but cool |
| 05:53.38 | Ycros | you could start up a website thing, explain the camera idea, and ask for people to volunteer to receive the package and post it to the next person |
| 05:53.42 | Psi | probably illegal due to rf laws while on the airplanes |
| 05:53.47 | Ycros | so the idea is, you send it to one person |
| 05:53.57 | Ycros | and they send it to another person somewhere in the world |
| 05:53.59 | Ycros | and so on |
| 05:54.12 | Ycros | and each person can show things with the camera |
| 05:54.14 | Ycros | or whatever |
| 05:54.16 | Ycros | that could work |
| 05:55.20 | Psi | you would want a camera on all 6 sides so you can always see out no matter how they pack the box |
| 05:59.35 | Ycros | I don't think you're going to see much while it's in transit |
| 06:00.46 | Psi | night vision cameras :P |
| 06:01.05 | Ycros | no, I mean, if it's inside a courier truck, or a plane, or whatever |
| 06:01.27 | Psi | with gps you could get a nice readout of exactly where the box is |
| 06:01.56 | Ycros | there are two major problems to this idea |
| 06:02.19 | Ycros | 1) what sort of phone or phones do you use to guarantee connectivity and sufficient bandwidth everywhere |
| 06:02.39 | Ycros | and I just forgot what 2 was |
| 06:02.40 | Ycros | hang on |
| 06:02.52 | Ycros | right |
| 06:02.52 | Ycros | so |
| 06:02.58 | Ycros | 2) the cost of the phone service |
| 06:03.38 | Psi | and 3) there will be laws as to what you can post |
| 06:03.40 | Ycros | would gsm (thus an openmoko) phone be sufficient? |
| 06:03.42 | Ycros | yeah |
| 06:03.45 | Ycros | well |
| 06:03.47 | Psi | im sure anything emitting rf would be bad |
| 06:04.54 | Ycros | oh, and power |
| 06:05.06 | Ycros | though I guess you'd have a big batter pack or something |
| 06:05.16 | Ycros | there might be laws against shipping battery packs which are active |
| 06:05.18 | Ycros | heh |
| 06:05.18 | Psi | dont think power would be too much of a problem |
| 06:05.27 | Ycros | it would be picked up as a bomb most likely |
| 06:05.31 | Psi | yeah |
| 06:05.37 | *** join/#openmoko tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 06:14.57 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 06:18.25 | aloril | more accurate tracking: bundle phone with actual shipping |
| 06:19.45 | aloril | might actually become common once phones get enough cheap |
| 06:20.36 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 06:29.11 | *** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
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| 06:32.14 | jipi | counter |
| 06:32.14 | aloril | P1: 3 weeks, 5 days 05:27:45 (26.228 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (481) |
| 06:32.26 | Psi | aloril, more likely some sort of rfid tag on every item and they just put sensors at all the points along the way and the package just has to come close to it to be registered |
| 06:34.00 | Psi | so you would know in realtime where any package is because there would be a rfid receiver in the warehouse which would know what boxes are there |
| 06:34.15 | Psi | same with the vans etc.. |
| 06:35.31 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@24.7.58.49) |
| 06:36.25 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@24.7.58.49) |
| 06:52.45 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r44 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Added fallback option for OE.mtn.bz2 download if monotone version is not yet supported. |
| 06:57.00 | *** join/#openmoko thresh (n=popa3d@unaffiliated/thresh) |
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| 07:15.04 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:16.17 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 07:18.20 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (i=sixfeet@p5484E0D6.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:18.53 | sixfeet | moin @ll |
| 07:30.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1252 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/ (7 files in 2 dirs): Complete changing layout when user push the "changer" button. |
| 07:32.55 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1253 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-taskmanager/ (13 files in 2 dirs): update licenses |
| 07:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 07:35.27 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07F823.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:40.25 | sixfeet | tag denis^da |
| 07:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 07:42.02 | *** join/#openmoko sumasuma (n=kurukko@61.14.86.23) |
| 07:43.24 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485E87A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 07:45.54 | denis^da | guten morgen ;) sixfeet |
| 07:46.30 | sixfeet | bist ja auch ständig hier *g* .. warteste auch auf den release? |
| 07:46.39 | sixfeet | counter |
| 07:46.39 | aloril | P1: 3 weeks, 5 days 04:13:20 (26.176 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (482) |
| 07:47.12 | sumasuma | when we buy the new phone and if there is hardware failure or ehnacement after one month, will that will be replaced? |
| 07:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
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| 07:50.16 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 07:51.36 | sixfeet | sumasuma, 2 years warranty |
| 07:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 07:53.52 | *** join/#openmoko Readon (n=xydarche@218.194.60.208) |
| 07:54.04 | Readon | ERROR: Nothing provides dependency openmoko-devel-image |
| 07:54.05 | Readon | make: *** [openmoko-devel-image] Error 1 |
| 07:54.10 | Readon | how to fix it? |
| 07:57.22 | CM | Never seen that one |
| 08:04.16 | sumasuma | Readon: Without phone you are just working with software alone ? |
| 08:05.10 | Readon | no, i am building it. |
| 08:05.45 | sumasuma | building ? the phone ? or the kernel image ? |
| 08:09.04 | Readon | the whole image |
| 08:09.11 | Readon | all of it |
| 08:11.13 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_moo (n=nmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 08:13.04 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 08:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 08:17.06 | denis^da | sixfeet, yeah I'm always here. But it is just the autojoin :). When I start working I am automatically here. |
| 08:18.08 | sixfeet | denis^da, hehe so you are in an office |
| 08:18.38 | sixfeet | most traffic in the job is caused by privat things |
| 08:21.17 | denis^da | no no really I am at home but working at home for university at the moment, sixfeet |
| 08:21.21 | denis^da | +t |
| 08:21.39 | denis^da | so it's my traffic :D |
| 08:21.48 | *** join/#openmoko moo_tang_clan (n=moo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 08:21.59 | sixfeet | ahh ok ... my job was to limit it (admin) gg |
| 08:27.03 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:28.09 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-027.eplus-online.de) |
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| 09:12.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1254 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/src/ (7 files): |
| 09:12.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: The background, changer ground and pictures of each keys only save |
| 09:12.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: as file name in the memory. They will be created when need, and |
| 09:12.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: will be free after using. |
| 09:15.28 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03alex_tang * r1255 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-messages/src/main.c: Make sure messages will only have one instance in memory. |
| 09:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081F9D0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:29.55 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-38-227.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 09:30.37 | *** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 09:34.59 | rwhitby | still "3/6/2007 7:28 am Arrived at DHL facility. Singapore, Singapore" :-( |
| 09:35.24 | hrw | rwhitby: mine is still in HongKong |
| 09:36.25 | rwhitby | 10 hours in Singapore so far ... |
| 09:37.15 | XorA | mine departed hong kong |
| 09:38.25 | rwhitby | mine departed hk 15 hours ago, and arrived at sing 10 hours ago |
| 09:38.37 | koen | March 06, 2007 10:29 Amsterdam - Netherlands, The Processed for clearance at Amsterdam - Netherlands, The |
| 09:38.43 | hrw | March 06, 2007 03:55 Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong Departed from DHL facility in Hong Kong - Hub - Hong Kong |
| 09:38.44 | koen | only 150km away now :) |
| 09:38.54 | alphaone | No! |
| 09:39.08 | alphaone | Mine is still in depart facility Hong Kong |
| 09:39.18 | alphaone | Which probably means still in the air |
| 09:39.22 | hrw | I hope that they do not want for plane HK -> Poznań ;D |
| 09:39.48 | koen | alphaone: mine arrived in .nl only 20 minutes ago |
| 09:39.55 | XorA | when I ordered zaurus it went to Amsterdam, then Frankfurt, then somewhere else in Germany, then London, then Edinburgh :-) |
| 09:40.43 | alphaone | koen: Well, I'll have to be a little more patient |
| 09:45.56 | aloril | N-button mouse using touch screen: put finger down, tap with another at any direction, direction defines 'button' |
| 09:46.13 | aloril | (single touch screen should be able to detect sudden jump from and back) |
| 09:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 09:48.09 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 09:48.11 | jeddy3 | aloril, you are on to something good there, that should really be possible |
| 09:49.39 | aloril | actually, not only tap with second finger, also could do gestures: select directly entry from right mouse button menu |
| 09:50.41 | koen | the different mouse buttons paradigm is a bit lost on touchscreens |
| 09:50.54 | koen | and OE patches gtk to use tap&hold for RMB |
| 09:52.12 | aloril | koen: ah, OK, though tap, add another finger to right might be faster than tap&hold? this needs experimenting though |
| 09:52.59 | koen | that needs to hands |
| 09:53.10 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 09:53.15 | koen | and on a 2.8 inch screen that will suck |
| 09:54.47 | hrw | NOTE: Running task 17 of 2584 (ID: 1935, /home/hrw/devel/oe/org.openembedded/packages/m4/m4-native_1.4.4.bb, do_fetch) |
| 09:54.48 | aloril | yeah, 2 hands, no thumb only usage then |
| 09:54.48 | hrw | openmoko-image has long list of tasks to do... |
| 09:54.48 | hrw | aloril: this phone is too small for two hands |
| 09:55.10 | aloril | hrw: yes, I meant you need to hold phone with one hand and do 2 finger stuff with another |
| 09:55.51 | aloril | actually maybe possible to use one hand only and 2 finger, but probably too cumbersome |
| 09:57.17 | madwoota | its possible to use one hand and 2 fingers for a lot of things :P |
| 09:58.09 | *** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 09:58.11 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 10:17.01 | Stephmw | I'm booooooooooooooooooooooooooooored. |
| 10:19.25 | *** join/#openmoko robtaylor (n=robtaylo@63.99.9.131) |
| 10:19.32 | florian | Stephmw: search for a nice open source project that needs help ;) |
| 10:23.29 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 10:25.22 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.211) |
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| 10:43.19 | Stephmw | florian: meh, wouldn't be able to work on it from work :( |
| 10:44.16 | florian | Stephmw: too bad... |
| 10:44.37 | florian | Stephmw: hum, but why... you can use irc so why ot coding? |
| 10:51.48 | Stephmw | florian: because I code for a living ;) |
| 10:51.58 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 10:52.35 | florian | Stephmw: well... that does not neccesarily means to have a conflict there :-) |
| 10:53.30 | *** join/#openmoko MDK_ (n=mdk@cs181209253.pp.htv.fi) |
| 10:53.45 | Stephmw | I'm also a contractor ;) |
| 10:54.13 | Stephmw | I don't think my current client would be all that happy if I started hacking on someone else's stuff while being paid for something else... |
| 10:54.30 | florian | :-) |
| 10:55.15 | Stephmw | it's bad enough I can't start hacking on Sun's open sourced J2ME :( |
| 10:57.34 | *** join/#openmoko jicknan (n=jick@222.92.90.170) |
| 11:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 11:05.30 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@p57AECB06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:09.25 | hrw | someone here know exim4? |
| 11:09.57 | rwhitby | hrw: nope, I always replace it with postfix ;-) |
| 11:10.41 | hrw | rwhitby: the problem is that I need MTA which wil have local delivery and transport everything outside via other smtp/ssl with smtp auth |
| 11:10.56 | XorA | hrw: postfix can do that |
| 11:11.02 | XorA | hrw: as can courier |
| 11:11.47 | vmaster | as can exim4 ;) |
| 11:12.51 | vmaster | but the ubuntu installation configured it for me, so i wont be of much help |
| 11:13.14 | vmaster | years ago i configured it on debian, and all i remember is that i didn't like it |
| 11:13.23 | hrw | XorA: as exim and other MTAs |
| 11:13.39 | XorA | hrw: then whats the problem? |
| 11:14.30 | hrw | XorA: crap docs, lack of good debug output etc |
| 11:15.46 | XorA | hrw: so switch to postfix which has good docs and good debug output :-) |
| 11:17.19 | hrw | 2007-03-06 12:17:21 1HOXfS-0002kb-SO Completed |
| 11:17.40 | hrw | fixed finally |
| 11:23.01 | *** join/#openmoko Nik0 (n=lewmnik@host-137-163-16-202.edu.hel.fi) |
| 11:30.41 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (i=me@nat/ibm/x-ce418519a267dd7c) |
| 11:35.04 | alphaone | Okay, I should stop staring at the DHL tracking page and start working |
| 11:35.25 | noidd | haha |
| 11:35.37 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 11:35.46 | noidd | So, lets play a game of "Where's Moko" :-) |
| 11:35.59 | noidd | anyone got theirs yet or is everyone still a day or two away? |
| 11:36.04 | rwhitby | still in hong kong |
| 11:36.16 | XorA | in flight |
| 11:36.16 | rwhitby | 12 hours there so far ... |
| 11:36.53 | rwhitby | my only hope is that they are waiting for the overnight commercial passenger flights direct to adelaide which leave hk about 23:00 |
| 11:37.00 | noidd | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:37.08 | alphaone | The Moko should be turned on. Then it could send me it's position :-) |
| 11:37.19 | alphaone | s/it's/its/ |
| 11:37.20 | noidd | that was the only thing that scared me. |
| 11:37.40 | noidd | looks like it made it through in one piece |
| 11:38.02 | koen | alphaone: I suspect it won't have the gpsd :( |
| 11:38.02 | noidd | going to call dhl now and find out what (if any) duty is due |
| 11:38.14 | alphaone | koen right.. |
| 11:38.33 | CoreDump|afk | 3/6/2007 3:55 am Depart Facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong |
| 11:38.37 | CoreDump|afk | ... |
| 11:39.12 | XorA | someone should googlemap the route each Neo taks |
| 11:40.56 | CoreDump|afk | and yay for dhl not getting their timezones right |
| 11:40.56 | alphaone | What timezone is that anyway? |
| 11:40.56 | alphaone | Local? |
| 11:40.58 | CoreDump|afk | dunno, they are not saying |
| 11:41.03 | rwhitby | I've been assuming they are all local times |
| 11:41.08 | rwhitby | (like airline flights) |
| 11:41.21 | CoreDump|afk | but: now == 3/6/2007, 3:39:14 am pt. |
| 11:41.31 | hrw | "Times given are local to the service area in which the shipment checkpoint is recorded. " |
| 11:41.47 | noidd | They don't know about duty yet - they'll send me an invoice if any is due in a few days. |
| 11:42.03 | noidd | but the phone is due at my door within 17 hours. |
| 11:42.29 | alphaone | noidd: Cool .-) |
| 11:42.38 | noidd | FIC did 2 day delivery |
| 11:42.41 | noidd | FIC++ |
| 11:42.42 | Psi | are you camped out on your front yard with a laptop and a sleeping bag waiting for it :P ? |
| 11:42.56 | rwhitby | mine's being delivered at work :-) |
| 11:43.16 | noidd | my wife is going to drive it to work for me tomorrow lunchtime |
| 11:43.21 | noidd | she just doesn't know it yet :-D |
| 11:43.26 | Psi | haha |
| 11:43.26 | CoreDump|afk | :) |
| 11:43.42 | noidd | if I lived in SF I could just go and pick it up |
| 11:43.59 | noidd | I would say "Road Trip!" but its 4500 miles :-P |
| 11:44.16 | Psi | i wonder if anyone actually did pick it up from FIC |
| 11:44.52 | noidd | I have to be honest, I've been toying with the idea of going to .tw on vacation the last few weeks ;-) |
| 11:44.56 | CoreDump|afk | I wanna know if we get the cool lunchbox ;) |
| 11:45.09 | noidd | I don't think so. |
| 11:45.27 | noidd | did anyone else notice that the cool lunchbox looks suspiciously like a suitcase nuke |
| 11:45.40 | CoreDump|afk | * Carrying Case |
| 11:45.48 | CoreDump|afk | noidd: hehe |
| 11:45.53 | Stephmw | noidd: that's ok, you can't board a plane atm anyway |
| 11:46.56 | noidd | oh, you heard about my little misunderstanding at the airport then :-P |
| 11:47.25 | Stephmw | I'd only heard about an expired passport... is there more to the story? ;) |
| 11:47.40 | noidd | Oh, forget I mentioned anything ;-D |
| 11:48.37 | Stephmw | confiscated? |
| 11:48.38 | alphaone | noidd: ? |
| 11:48.59 | noidd | I accidentally brought a banned item into the secured area and got caught |
| 11:49.16 | noidd | and, to give you an idea of scale. |
| 11:49.32 | noidd | I thought I was going to make international news and end up at camp gitmo |
| 11:49.41 | CoreDump|afk | noidd: lol |
| 11:49.52 | alphaone | noidd: Ouch |
| 11:49.58 | alphaone | What item? |
| 11:50.03 | CoreDump|afk | wth did you carry? |
| 11:50.03 | alphaone | A sharp pencil? |
| 11:50.09 | noidd | No, something serious |
| 11:50.12 | stefan_schmidt | Water bottle |
| 11:50.12 | Stephmw | a nail clipper? |
| 11:50.20 | Stephmw | dope? |
| 11:50.24 | noidd | No. |
| 11:50.27 | CoreDump|afk | laptop battery? |
| 11:50.41 | noidd | Let me put it this way. |
| 11:50.46 | Stephmw | noidd: ok, I'm out of witty ideas |
| 11:50.52 | alphaone | Sony laptop battery :-) |
| 11:50.58 | noidd | my laptop bag doubles as a (gun) range bag |
| 11:51.05 | Stephmw | LOL |
| 11:51.07 | CoreDump|afk | HEHE |
| 11:51.12 | alphaone | oh |
| 11:51.16 | Stephmw | noidd: forgot the thing was in there? |
| 11:51.36 | noidd | and I hadn't completely emptied it. |
| 11:51.37 | rwhitby | weapon or ammo? |
| 11:51.40 | Stephmw | noidd: don't they x-ray stuff before entering the secure area in the US? |
| 11:51.41 | noidd | Wasn't the gun, just ammo |
| 11:51.50 | alphaone | No constitutional right to defend yourself at the airport? |
| 11:51.51 | noidd | yeah they did - and that's where they caught it. |
| 11:52.33 | Stephmw | "Deep cavity search" |
| 11:52.41 | noidd | alphaone: US constitution is all about property rights. |
| 11:52.50 | alphaone | And you live to tell. |
| 11:52.59 | noidd | airport property owner says no fun things, then no fun things. |
| 11:53.08 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@feldconf.feld.cvut.cz) |
| 11:53.09 | noidd | I never felt so sick in my life |
| 11:53.10 | Psi | hehe i once went to Australia forgetting i had about a teaspoon of gunpowder wrapped up in my wallet |
| 11:53.10 | alphaone | heh |
| 11:53.15 | noidd | I thought that it was the end of my life. |
| 11:53.23 | *** join/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 11:53.25 | Psi | didnt get caught though |
| 11:53.27 | CoreDump|afk | =D |
| 11:54.12 | noidd | If I was in any other part of the US other than the south I would have been history |
| 11:54.19 | CoreDump|afk | well, I know _someone_ who will tripple-check his bags before entering an aitport now |
| 11:54.26 | alphaone | noidd: How long did it take you to convince them you didn't want to capture the plane? |
| 11:54.28 | XorA | bah in the EO even water is banned, just in case all 500 passengers bring some and flood the cockpit |
| 11:54.34 | XorA | s/EO/EU/ |
| 11:54.34 | noidd | I buy a new set of bags every time I travel :-P |
| 11:55.00 | moo_tang_clan | XorA: that's just on US routes, isn't it? |
| 11:55.05 | noidd | alphaone: about 20 mins, they they confiscated the ammo and mailed the magazine back to me in the post. |
| 11:55.13 | alphaone | XorA: Well, I think they are afraid of water bombs :-) |
| 11:55.29 | XorA | moo_tang_clan: no, we are limited to 100ml bottles and only the number which will fit in a 1L plastic bag |
| 11:55.39 | koen | the funny thing: Fly to US: unlock your bags |
| 11:55.48 | koen | Fly to anywhere else: lock your bags |
| 11:55.50 | Psi | some people just tick every box on the declaration form because they cant be 100% sure its not in their bag :P |
| 11:55.52 | noidd | I think they could tell by the way I was vomiting that I was telling the truth |
| 11:55.53 | CoreDump|afk | a well placed waterbomb could probably bring a plane down =) |
| 11:56.02 | alphaone | noidd: Wow. I thought you'd never see these things again |
| 11:56.12 | XorA | the wierdest thing is buy 1L vodka bottle inside secured area, take into bog, cut into glass knife |
| 11:56.20 | Psi | someone may have teleported a small hamster into my bag, better tick that box |
| 11:56.45 | noidd | The security people were awesome tho. Thorough, but awesome. |
| 11:57.11 | noidd | I've never seen so many heavily armed police arive so quickly in my life tho |
| 11:57.18 | Psi | hehe |
| 11:57.34 | noidd | They kept asking "Where's the other half of this" |
| 11:57.54 | CoreDump|afk | noidd: what a day huh? hehe |
| 11:57.57 | noidd | I kept saying its at home in the safe, I know that for sure although right about now I want to go home and double check!" |
| 11:58.06 | Psi | and you said, "where i thought this half was, at home" |
| 11:58.08 | noidd | I'll never forget it. |
| 11:58.49 | moo_tang_clan | noidd: perhaps get a separate range bag now? :) |
| 11:58.56 | noidd | Did he fly it back? |
| 11:58.56 | Stephmw | XorA: private flight? |
| 11:59.27 | XorA | Stephmw: no, she landed in london then connected with edin, and between the two airports they forgot to send the foreigners through customs/passport control |
| 11:59.54 | noidd | Well, I'm a Brit who moved to the US and honestly, I'm never moving back. |
| 12:00.27 | CoreDump|afk | noidd: that that you could ATM HEHE |
| 12:00.38 | CoreDump|afk | s/that/not |
| 12:00.40 | noidd | I love it here, everyone in the South is so friendly and heavily armed. |
| 12:00.44 | noidd | I feel so comfortable here. |
| 12:01.18 | noidd | There is going to be another civil war in the US btw, I really believe that. |
| 12:01.36 | noidd | it may be 20 years away, but you can feel it. |
| 12:01.48 | noidd | and its going to be North vs South again |
| 12:01.55 | koen | with armed bears? |
| 12:02.08 | noidd | except this time the midwest will join the South and CA will just get stoned. |
| 12:02.37 | moo_tang_clan | noidd: is that twenty years with or without hillary? |
| 12:02.54 | noidd | that will never happen |
| 12:02.59 | noidd | no way on earth |
| 12:03.10 | noidd | She is too polarizing. |
| 12:03.27 | noidd | they'll vote for a communist black lesbian before they vote for hillary. |
| 12:03.49 | noidd | a communist black lesbian named Mohummed |
| 12:04.23 | Psi | heh |
| 12:04.53 | noidd | ok, I gotta go to work |
| 12:05.02 | noidd | and keep hitting Reload on the dhl page :-) |
| 12:05.14 | Psi | its 1am here, im going to bed |
| 12:05.24 | noidd | later man |
| 12:05.28 | Psi | later |
| 12:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.141) |
| 12:12.08 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 12:12.18 | hrw | noidd: konqueror has plugin to do autorefresh ;D |
| 12:18.31 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 12:19.26 | Elrond | counter |
| 12:19.26 | aloril | P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 23:40:33 (25.986 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (483) |
| 12:19.49 | Elrond | Huh, has P1 been timewarped?! |
| 12:26.46 | SpeedEvil | counter doesn't say no preorder - does this mean... ? |
| 12:27.54 | Elrond | counter? |
| 12:27.54 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 4 days 23:32:05 (25.981 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 2 days (193.981 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (484) |
| 12:28.10 | SpeedEvil | oh |
| 12:32.19 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=adutko@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net) |
| 12:34.12 | koen | "With delivery courier" :D |
| 12:35.41 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@leningrad.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 12:40.15 | aloril | Elrond: update counter based on http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-March/000006.html |
| 12:40.27 | aloril | s/update/updated |
| 12:40.33 | woglinde | counter |
| 12:40.33 | aloril | P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 23:19:26 (25.972 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (485) |
| 12:40.43 | aloril | (earlier today, not now ;-) |
| 12:43.14 | *** join/#openmoko Nik0 (n=lewmnik@host-137-163-16-202.edu.hel.fi) |
| 12:43.34 | *** join/#openmoko esden_ (n=esden@p57AECB06.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:44.17 | Elrond | aloril - Hmm, reading that mail, it seems 2007-03-31 is the date for "v4 in sample quantities"? |
| 12:45.36 | aloril | Elrond: yes, see above "counter?" incantation ;-) |
| 12:50.01 | aloril | then anybody could 'update' counter |
| 12:50.42 | aloril | example: pre-orders become available: add url |
| 12:52.38 | XorA | apt: pre-orders |
| 12:53.03 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07F823.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:53.54 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-129-021.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:54.14 | aloril | of course topic can be updated ;-) |
| 12:55.19 | XorA | ~neo1973 |
| 12:56.55 | Elrond | apt: feed itself |
| 12:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:03.39 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 13:04.46 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.211) |
| 13:09.48 | aloril | added it: |
| 13:10.04 | aloril | counter_msg test message foo://bar |
| 13:10.04 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: test message foo://bar) |
| 13:10.08 | aloril | counter |
| 13:10.08 | aloril | (aloril: test message foo://bar) P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 22:49:51 (25.951 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (486) |
| 13:10.16 | aloril | counter_msg |
| 13:10.16 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to |
| 13:10.18 | aloril | counter |
| 13:10.18 | aloril | P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 22:49:42 (25.951 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (487) |
| 13:11.00 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 13:12.47 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 13:15.52 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca) |
| 13:16.23 | *** part/#openmoko mave_pan (i=me@nat/ibm/x-ce418519a267dd7c) |
| 13:17.07 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 13:22.32 | Hadaka | counter? |
| 13:22.32 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 4 days 22:37:27 (25.943 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 2 days (193.943 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (488) |
| 13:23.09 | Hadaka | hmh, have the P0 guys already got their devices? |
| 13:23.43 | XorA | Hadaka: we are all desperately watching DHL tracking website |
| 13:23.50 | aloril | Hadaka: closest is "2007-03-06 13:42:03 <noidd> but the phone is due at my door within 17 hours. |
| 13:23.50 | aloril | " |
| 13:24.16 | aloril | <2h ago |
| 13:24.49 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (i=matteo@147.162.137.211) |
| 13:24.54 | denis^da | please do a lot of photos and videos of the device in action :) |
| 13:25.01 | denis^da | -do +take |
| 13:25.27 | aloril | counter_msg P0: first device arriving < 1d |
| 13:25.27 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: first device arriving < 1d) |
| 13:26.18 | XorA | SpeedEvil: P1 will rock |
| 13:26.20 | koen | with some luck my neo will be here in <1h |
| 13:26.36 | XorA | koen: on the van then? |
| 13:26.55 | koen | XorA: yep, since 81 minutes ago :) |
| 13:27.00 | XorA | koen: sorted |
| 13:27.20 | aloril | counter_msg P0: <koen> with some luck my neo will be here in <1 |
| 13:27.20 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: <koen> with some luck my neo will be here in <1) |
| 13:27.29 | aloril | counter_msg P0: <koen> with some luck my neo will be here in <1h |
| 13:27.29 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: <koen> with some luck my neo will be here in <1h) |
| 13:27.50 | XorA | everyone, KOEN is the guy to mug :-D |
| 13:27.59 | aloril | hehe |
| 13:28.09 | stefan_schmidt | koen: Your mother was calling me. You have to go on a long ride....now ;) |
| 13:28.11 | alphaone | P0 |
| 13:28.35 | koen | p0wned |
| 13:28.45 | alphaone | koen: Yeah, come visit Brunswick :-) |
| 13:29.42 | Hadaka | whee! rock on guys, soon the sweetness beings |
| 13:29.43 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@81.213.159.65) |
| 13:29.44 | XorA | mine still seems to be in the air |
| 13:30.19 | XorA | that will make my series of phones P-2 P-1 P0 :-D |
| 13:30.29 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 13:30.46 | SpeedEvil | Where on the wiki would a 'things for people with hardware to do' be appropriate? I.E. Run this binary with profiling, take a zoomed picture of the GPS antenna, ... |
| 13:31.30 | aloril | Wishlist:P0_Review ? |
| 13:31.46 | aloril | (doesn't exists at the moment) |
| 13:32.44 | SpeedEvil | Sounds reasonable. |
| 13:34.01 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 13:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com) |
| 13:39.17 | Elrond | koen - No issues with customs? |
| 13:40.05 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - So you're going to play customs officer at koen's door? ;o) |
| 13:41.55 | SpeedEvil | I'm waiting for P1 on reflection. |
| 13:43.04 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - So why are you still hiding under a bush? ;o) |
| 13:43.39 | noidd | Delivery before noon tomorrow |
| 13:43.42 | noidd | I'm stoked |
| 13:44.23 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 13:45.47 | XorA | noidd: so you are second in the race currently |
| 13:49.21 | guaqua | try to get some sleep, guys :) |
| 13:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@a88-112-19-233.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 14:01.40 | hrw | koen: lucky bastard ;D |
| 14:02.20 | hrw | mine is somewhere between hongkong and next place |
| 14:03.27 | inz | Maybe it wanted to go exploring and parachuted out of the plane? |
| 14:06.52 | koen | NEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 14:06.53 | Elrond | inz - It was hacked by BT and escaped? ;) |
| 14:08.23 | moo_tang_clan | koen: not arrived yet, no? |
| 14:08.27 | moo_tang_clan | shame. |
| 14:08.30 | aloril | counter_msg P0: <koen> NEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
| 14:08.31 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: <koen> NEO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!) |
| 14:09.26 | noidd | who is first? |
| 14:10.15 | Elrond | noidd - koen tries to. But all neo-fanatics except us are waiting in front of his door ;o) |
| 14:10.18 | aloril | noidd: sounds like koen's Neo arrived |
| 14:11.08 | koen | ooooooh |
| 14:11.13 | koen | a laser stylus |
| 14:11.22 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 14:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 14:11.40 | guaqua | so koen has one already? |
| 14:11.48 | SpeedEvil | Allegedly. |
| 14:11.58 | aloril | guaqua: definitely sounds like it ;-) |
| 14:12.13 | guaqua | bitch |
| 14:12.22 | guaqua | can you make a call with it, koen? :) |
| 14:12.33 | buz | wtf is a laser stylus |
| 14:12.36 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:12.37 | moo_tang_clan | koen: I would love to see a piccy |
| 14:12.39 | buz | oh and can you make a picture of it |
| 14:12.47 | SpeedEvil | It's a stylus, with a laser pointer in it. |
| 14:12.50 | buz | oh |
| 14:12.51 | buz | nice |
| 14:12.51 | moo_tang_clan | that's cool. |
| 14:12.55 | buz | but still no place to store it |
| 14:12.58 | SpeedEvil | I don't know. |
| 14:13.04 | SpeedEvil | It means it's quite large. |
| 14:13.28 | buz | and needs batteries |
| 14:13.57 | alphaone | koen: Sweeeet |
| 14:14.27 | alphaone | I guess koen has just logged off to play with his cool new toy |
| 14:14.35 | alphaone | I know I would have :-) |
| 14:15.32 | alphaone | koen: Is it a green laser? :-) |
| 14:15.34 | buz | now we will see if it is droolproof |
| 14:15.43 | alphaone | lol |
| 14:16.05 | buz | maybe fic should ship a surgical mask with it |
| 14:16.05 | SpeedEvil | Green lasers are considerably more expensive and current consuming. |
| 14:16.34 | SpeedEvil | Blue lasers are just silly, as are violet. |
| 14:16.36 | buz | i want a laser that cuts stuff in my stylus ;) |
| 14:16.47 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: I know. |
| 14:16.55 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B8538.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 14:17.08 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 14:17.44 | alphaone | Okay, so we have two uses until now: Laserpointer and stylus. Or did I miss anything? |
| 14:18.00 | buz | now if it can also write.... |
| 14:18.10 | alphaone | buz :-) |
| 14:18.29 | buz | i think i once saw a combo palm/pen/laserpointer |
| 14:18.52 | buz | and since you cant store it in the device anyway, it better be unsmall |
| 14:19.16 | Elrond | it better be unbreakable. |
| 14:19.46 | buz | like the one in naked gun |
| 14:19.53 | buz | unbreakable except when wet |
| 14:21.07 | noidd | keon: did it arrive? |
| 14:21.26 | koen | http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412590339/ |
| 14:21.41 | noidd | koen wins |
| 14:21.46 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:21.46 | Elrond | Of course "unlosable" would also be cool. But I guess, they haven't yet found a way to add this attribute during production ;) |
| 14:21.57 | prpplague | koen: your neo arrived? |
| 14:22.02 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: That's trivial. |
| 14:22.05 | noidd | lets see it then |
| 14:22.07 | alphaone | And flickr is going down :-) |
| 14:22.09 | SpeedEvil | Chain it to the user. |
| 14:22.38 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:22.43 | alphaone | prpplague: koen can't answer. He's too busy playing around and taking photos I guess :-) |
| 14:22.50 | prpplague | hehe |
| 14:23.12 | koen | the picture that you all want to see is uploading now |
| 14:23.16 | prpplague | koen: that an aquapad in your photos? |
| 14:24.01 | koen | I have no idea what an aquapad is |
| 14:24.15 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_x (n=chatzill@c-75-68-22-196.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 14:24.36 | noidd | its there |
| 14:24.39 | noidd | ohh, shiny! |
| 14:24.43 | *** part/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 14:24.49 | noidd | http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ |
| 14:25.21 | moo_tang_clan | that's a big stylus. |
| 14:25.44 | prpplague | koen: the webpad from FIC |
| 14:26.00 | prpplague | koen: yea its a progear |
| 14:26.00 | noidd | koen: whats the serial#? :-) |
| 14:26.02 | buz | are those real inear (think shure like) headphones? |
| 14:26.19 | stefan_schmidt | exactly the same. :) |
| 14:26.20 | aloril | counter_msg P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ |
| 14:26.20 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/) |
| 14:26.28 | alphaone | This looks soooo sweet |
| 14:26.47 | buz | if that is everything you get for 350$ this is really good value |
| 14:26.50 | aloril | counter_msg P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ |
| 14:26.50 | aloril | aloril changed counter prefix message to (aloril: P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ ) |
| 14:26.52 | buz | usually you have to buy that stuff |
| 14:27.00 | moo_tang_clan | I definitely want the plectrum |
| 14:27.20 | aloril | buz: debug board is not part of $350 |
| 14:27.23 | buz | the pen looks huge |
| 14:27.29 | buz | aloril: ah well yes |
| 14:27.31 | buz | but aside of that |
| 14:27.47 | rob_w | nice pic .. cool that we get black ones |
| 14:27.59 | buz | those little black thingies in the plastic bag are in ear pieces right? |
| 14:28.22 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 14:28.45 | aloril | well, torx drive neither, etc.., but then 512MB instead of 128MB card (and probably some other differences) |
| 14:29.05 | buz | well but headset, pouch, lanyard... |
| 14:29.31 | *** join/#openmoko etis (n=etis@cev75-2-82-66-209-178.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 14:30.12 | *** join/#openmoko thomasez (n=thomasez@castle.linpro.no) |
| 14:30.18 | buz | theres little dots in the pen case? batteries??? |
| 14:30.41 | alphaone | yeah |
| 14:30.59 | buz | so koen can the pen write on paper? |
| 14:31.06 | koen | buz: yes |
| 14:31.15 | buz | whoa neat |
| 14:31.16 | koen | twist left -> stylus, twist right -> pen |
| 14:31.16 | alphaone | Stylus/pen/light/laserpointer combo |
| 14:31.23 | buz | omg |
| 14:31.33 | buz | i can nearly forgive not being able to store it in the device ;) |
| 14:31.38 | XorA | just realised due to a local strike I probably not get a P0 neo until Saturday |
| 14:31.50 | noidd | XorA: Oh man, that sucks. |
| 14:32.02 | SpeedEvil | XorA: Your new career as a mediator beckons. |
| 14:32.37 | alphaone | Now I can update two sites: DHL and koen's flickr stream |
| 14:32.49 | XorA | noidd: I already have P-2, P-1 x 2 so not too upset |
| 14:34.05 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 14:34.21 | *** part/#openmoko thomasez (n=thomasez@castle.linpro.no) |
| 14:34.22 | Elrond | That charger thing does not look like it will work in .de ;o) |
| 14:34.34 | XorA | Elrond: just needs a hammer |
| 14:34.39 | prpplague | the P0's are for developers? |
| 14:34.41 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.141) |
| 14:34.49 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:34.49 | buz | looks us'ian |
| 14:35.06 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: it's just a USB charger. |
| 14:35.27 | buz | which are 1$ on ebay |
| 14:35.33 | buz | plus 12$ shipping, of cours |
| 14:35.39 | SpeedEvil | I'd recomment the 'swiss travel' charger. |
| 14:35.42 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: so will the hackers lunchbox still be available with later phases? |
| 14:35.45 | SpeedEvil | US/EU/japan/... |
| 14:35.47 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 14:35.50 | SpeedEvil | $200 more though |
| 14:36.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea thats pretty high |
| 14:37.05 | SpeedEvil | http://www.ebuyer.com/UK/product/106335 |
| 14:37.42 | SpeedEvil | The debug board for P1 will probably be different to the P0 one though. Exactly how is an interesting question. |
| 14:38.40 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 14:38.53 | SpeedEvil | As with many 'swiss' products, I suspect the company has little to do with there. |
| 14:39.00 | *** join/#openmoko vlad-7 (n=chatzill@verniyi-mihayilov9-vpn-450.tsnet.ru) |
| 14:39.07 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, i'd simply use my ft2232 based jtag board myself |
| 14:39.31 | SpeedEvil | The connector may be a problem. |
| 14:39.41 | SpeedEvil | However. |
| 14:39.50 | SpeedEvil | For 99.99% of stuff, you don't need JTAG. |
| 14:40.10 | Elrond | 99.9%. If you screw u-boot, you need it. |
| 14:40.17 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 14:40.25 | SpeedEvil | Or you send it to someone with one. |
| 14:40.29 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 14:40.37 | noidd | The main reason I want the debug board is for access to console over serial |
| 14:40.48 | noidd | I just like having that seperate. |
| 14:40.55 | SpeedEvil | What's wrong with usb-serial? |
| 14:41.08 | noidd | going to be using usb for network |
| 14:41.22 | stefan_schmidt | noidd: serial over debug baord diables GSM. Just as a note. |
| 14:41.40 | Elrond | I have admin'd boxes over the net for 13 years... so usbnet/usbserial is fine. I just have to be careful not to touch u-boot ;) |
| 14:41.57 | Elrond | ... so I hope, they P1+ phones have a "no need to update"-u-boot. |
| 14:43.00 | SpeedEvil | Oooh - Koen has pics of it on. |
| 14:43.28 | CM | koen: Nice pics! (The lens polishing worked.. ;)) |
| 14:43.38 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: its just an fpc connector right? |
| 14:43.44 | Obitus | Do the JTAG kit used with linksys-routers fit? |
| 14:43.44 | aloril | Obitus: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 14:43.45 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: based on the photo koen posted |
| 14:44.06 | prpplague | Obitus: jtag is jtag, just gotta connect the wires |
| 14:44.06 | SpeedEvil | yes, it's FPC |
| 14:44.29 | SpeedEvil | It's detailed on the hardware disssasembly page on the wiki |
| 14:44.30 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 14:44.41 | Obitus | ok thanks, I'll go read that :) |
| 14:44.45 | prpplague | Obitus: only think is you have to make sure the voltage levels are the same, and in the case of the s3c2410 its 3.3v |
| 14:45.07 | prpplague | Obitus: my suggestion is if you don't have alot of jtag experience, buy the hackers lunchbox |
| 14:46.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, when i finally get around to getting a neo, i plan to drop uboot and go with apex instead |
| 14:46.30 | koen | who wanted a shot of the gps antenna? |
| 14:47.13 | SpeedEvil | That was an example. |
| 14:47.14 | Elrond | koen - SpeedEvil probably ;) |
| 14:47.16 | SpeedEvil | I don't. |
| 14:47.17 | aloril | S/N: 000176 |
| 14:47.34 | rob_w | koen, can you shoot the device while the ui is visisble ? |
| 14:47.42 | SpeedEvil | I really want pics of the upper side of the case, from the inside :) |
| 14:47.56 | SpeedEvil | Though only if you are dissasembling anyway. |
| 14:47.58 | Elrond | rob_w - http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412601697/ |
| 14:49.05 | Elrond | Stupid question: Is there any pic on the wiki, where I can see the aux(911) button? |
| 14:49.49 | rob_w | ok cool |
| 14:51.01 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux (n=sri@59.92.165.78) |
| 14:51.21 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 14:51.24 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: wish i could find a vendor that had that WM chip at a reasonable cost |
| 14:51.25 | hrw | Elrond: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412598318/ in bottom corner is iirc 911 button |
| 14:52.34 | alphaone | looks mor like power |
| 14:52.38 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: it's shown sort-of on one of the hardare dissasembly pages. |
| 14:53.49 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 14:53.50 | Elrond | alphaone - Yeah, I always see "the button next to usb". ;) |
| 14:54.06 | alphaone | Elrond: :-) |
| 14:55.06 | inz | koen, you killeds it! |
| 14:55.23 | CM | Who do you set the 911 number? |
| 14:55.35 | CM | s/Who/How/ |
| 14:56.09 | *** join/#openmoko mako_ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 14:56.18 | aloril | so font is in physical size similar to size 4 or size 5 on regular LCD? |
| 14:56.49 | aloril | (about 1.5-2mm) |
| 14:56.59 | Lumpio- | Hm, is a physical 911 button required by law? |
| 14:57.31 | koen | Powerbook-2:~ koen$ cu -l /dev/cu.usbmodem00000001 -s 115200 |
| 14:57.31 | koen | Connected. |
| 14:57.31 | koen | In: usbtty |
| 14:57.32 | koen | Out: usbtty |
| 14:57.32 | koen | Err: usbtty |
| 14:57.32 | koen | GTA01Bv3 # |
| 14:58.50 | hrw | koen: create new photoset from those pictures |
| 14:58.51 | Elrond | "neo1973 charger status" ;o) |
| 14:59.13 | koen | gah |
| 14:59.21 | koen | it suspends while being in uboot |
| 15:00.00 | denis^da | koen you have to shoot a video of the whole device :) |
| 15:00.53 | koen | hrw: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/sets/72157594573486523/ |
| 15:02.02 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 15:04.11 | amarsh04 | CM in gsm-land 112 is the emergency number, whereever you are |
| 15:06.48 | CM | amarsh04: Aha, thanks :) |
| 15:07.07 | xkr47 | even in us ? |
| 15:07.18 | aloril | updated http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:P0_Review (last item already has been practically answered) |
| 15:07.20 | CM | xkr47: I just checked on WP |
| 15:07.24 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 15:07.29 | CM | Yes, all GSM networks |
| 15:07.51 | CM | It's rerouted to the correct local emergency number |
| 15:08.00 | *** join/#openmoko jipi (n=jipi@cm128.delta240.maxonline.com.sg) |
| 15:11.22 | aloril | (paper seems to have better resolution as black/white as excepted) XorA, koen: I wonder how does it compare in practice to paper? |
| 15:13.30 | noidd | koen: do you have a SIM card to put in it ? |
| 15:14.54 | koen | not yet |
| 15:16.00 | aloril | Date code: 20070207: yeah, seems like almost month delay because of cable |
| 15:16.14 | moo_tang_clan | that's a shame :/ |
| 15:16.54 | Elrond | koen - Any issues with customs? |
| 15:17.06 | Elrond | moo_tang_clan - That's "industry reality". |
| 15:17.09 | koen | Elrond: not that I know off |
| 15:17.24 | moo_tang_clan | Elrond: oh, indeed. it's just a bit of bad luck, and it's a shame it happened. |
| 15:19.17 | Elrond | Ahh, those notess answer my "questions you wanted to ask, but didn't try"-section ;) |
| 15:19.44 | Elrond | koen - Nice. :-) Let's see, how customs in .de will work. ;) |
| 15:20.20 | aloril | koen: can you get even closer image of screen? (including some text too) |
| 15:20.45 | koen | aloril: not in this light |
| 15:20.56 | koen | it will either be too blurry or too grainy |
| 15:21.03 | stefan_schmidt | Elixir-: They refer to engineering on the box. It should be fine. |
| 15:21.51 | aloril | koen: ah, OK (so screen itself is not enough bright?) |
| 15:22.51 | Elrond | IMHO the lanyard has too many logos on it. |
| 15:22.52 | koen | aloril: to bright for the ambient light |
| 15:23.49 | Lumpio- | Eh, did the guitar pick and screwdriver came in the same package? |
| 15:24.06 | aloril | koen: yes, getting screen and case at same time is hard, what about closeup of screen only? |
| 15:24.26 | koen | I'll try to get a shot after cooking and dinner |
| 15:24.38 | Elrond | Lumpio- - Yes. |
| 15:25.22 | Elrond | Lumpio- - But only for P0 people. |
| 15:26.02 | aloril | koen: cool |
| 15:26.20 | noidd | Once I get my phone and have verified I know how to reflash it I will put it online and let y'all ssh into it.\ |
| 15:26.52 | Lumpio- | oo |
| 15:27.11 | Lumpio- | But... but... I want a cool MAIKURO DORAIBAA too |
| 15:27.20 | Lumpio- | Nowait, I already have a T6 :I |
| 15:27.24 | alphaone | noidd: With a valid ISM card? :-) |
| 15:29.58 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@thurgood-marshall.sflc.info) |
| 15:32.38 | Elrond | <-- getting home now. |
| 15:35.51 | aloril | incidentally closeup of screen will give also answer to "how bright it is?" (by looking at Exif data) |
| 15:36.22 | noidd | alph: sure |
| 15:36.32 | noidd | :-D |
| 15:38.10 | koen | OMG |
| 15:38.12 | koen | http://lists.linuxtogo.org/pipermail/openembedded-users/2007-March/000078.html |
| 15:38.24 | koen | this guy can't be serious |
| 15:38.57 | aloril | about 120dpi (128x128 pixel) Nokia screen: can get about to about 15x15 pixels in image for each screen pixel (f/3.7, 1/10s, ISO 100) |
| 15:41.46 | aloril | HP L1940T LCD is 1/50s |
| 15:42.19 | XorA | koen: people dont read errors they just report them |
| 15:43.53 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 15:44.26 | noidd | that mail is awesome btw :-) |
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| 15:45.34 | koen | aloril: picture of screen coming up |
| 15:45.41 | cjb | cool, congrats on the Neo recipients :) |
| 15:46.58 | xkr47 | :)) |
| 15:47.27 | xkr47 | guitar pick ?--) |
| 15:47.51 | cjb | xkr47: for opening the case, I think. |
| 15:48.12 | koen | it's in the message |
| 15:48.33 | rob_w | i demand openmoko drumsticks ;-) |
| 15:51.28 | koen | aloril: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412663954/ |
| 15:53.03 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (n=bflong@146.145.26.91) |
| 15:54.30 | florian | koen: hrm... obviously there are no direct cargo flights to germany... my one is in Hongkong |
| 15:55.06 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 15:57.55 | aloril | koen: thanks, quite nice screen! |
| 15:59.41 | aloril | (also about same brightness as HP L1940T screen and about 4x more bright than this screen in older Nokia phone) |
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| 16:15.39 | cjb | koen: the DPI on the screen is nice, huh. |
| 16:15.52 | koen | it is |
| 16:16.07 | koen | although the new casing made a bigger impression |
| 16:16.21 | cjb | you like it? I like the orange. |
| 16:16.45 | koen | did you get one with the new 'soft' plastic? |
| 16:17.18 | cjb | guess not, I just have the orange one you've probably seen pics of. |
| 16:17.37 | cjb | I think we didn't ask for first-round p0 phones 'cause we can do plenty with the orange until fully-working hardware appears. |
| 16:17.38 | koen | yeah, I handled one of those at fosdem |
| 16:20.29 | XorA | the code is total and utter bullshit. It definitely falls into the |
| 16:20.29 | XorA | category of "lets blindly write code without any reference to what is |
| 16:20.30 | XorA | actually required" and "test? what's that? you must be mad, I don't |
| 16:20.30 | XorA | test the code I write!" |
| 16:22.02 | PBeck | hi |
| 16:22.34 | aloril | on black and white printer 'clearly' wins, but on color photos might be comparable (and maybe on some printers worse)? |
| 16:27.18 | SuN | Am I missing like... a huge block of context here? ;) |
| 16:28.56 | aloril | counter |
| 16:28.56 | aloril | (aloril: P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ ) P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 19:31:04 (25.813 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (489) |
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| 16:53.11 | aloril | (Sean gave talk here) "F2C: Freedom to Connect Day One Highlights": http://blogs.nmss.com/communications/2007/03/f2c_freedom_to_.html |
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| 17:18.51 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p213.54.168.170.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 17:20.35 | rob_w | ohh mine is still in Hong Kong |
| 17:21.58 | florian | same here :) |
| 17:22.05 | pH5 | mine isn't even sent. |
| 17:22.10 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 17:22.24 | rob_w | pH5, thats bad |
| 17:26.16 | Stephmw | rob_w: records aren't always updated |
| 17:26.42 | Stephmw | rob_w: I have received a lens... 4 weeks ago, but the courier still says it's in transit over the US somewhere |
| 17:27.21 | don-o | the "unboxed" photo shows the phone's motherboard outside of the phone. does it come with "some assembly required"? |
| 17:27.51 | hrw | don-o: disassembly tools provided in package |
| 17:27.51 | don-o | oh nm, the photo notes show it as the 'debug board' |
| 17:28.17 | don-o | guitar pic? :) |
| 17:28.37 | SpeedEvil | No, the first pics show it cased. |
| 17:28.42 | hrw | DHL... my package nearly 22h ago left hongkong and still nowhere.... |
| 17:29.15 | koen | drat |
| 17:29.17 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:29.21 | koen | dfu-util doesn't work on sx |
| 17:30.33 | rob_w | Stephmw, hehe nice |
| 17:32.08 | loufoque | koen: where is your phone? |
| 17:32.16 | koen | next to my OSX laptop |
| 17:32.30 | loufoque | so you received it? |
| 17:32.32 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:32.43 | koen | counter? |
| 17:32.43 | aloril | P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; P0: devices shipped at 2007-03-05; 3 weeks, 4 days 18:27:16 (25.769 +-7.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 6 months, a week, 2 days (193.769 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (490) |
| 17:32.47 | koen | yes :) |
| 17:34.04 | loufoque | isn't the stylus a bit big? |
| 17:34.31 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't fit in the phone, and is a laser+pen+stylus+phase plasma rifle in the 40w range. |
| 17:35.03 | don-o | ask steve jobs, styluses are out. |
| 17:35.06 | loufoque | phase plasma rifle? |
| 17:35.18 | SpeedEvil | Sorry, bad terminator reference. |
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| 17:39.26 | koen | hmmm |
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| 17:40.15 | don-o | is there something i should know about using a P1 device in the USA? something about carrier whitelists? |
| 17:40.24 | loufoque | koen: think about the time it takes for shipping, that should refrain you from stabbing it |
| 17:41.10 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 17:41.26 | koen | loufoque: it also helps that the neo is in another room :) |
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| 17:43.41 | rob_w|tablet | hehe |
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| 17:46.19 | hrw | cu |
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| 17:52.13 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> {www|wiki|bugzilla|planet|projects|lists|svn|svnweb } .openmoko.org | You can buy it around the end of this month for $350, see the wiki. Mass market in September. |
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| 17:58.31 | balrog-kun | i'd change the "Bad block table found at page..." message to "Bad-block table" or "BBT" |
| 17:58.41 | balrog-kun | otherwise it looks like an error message |
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| 18:05.31 | balrog-kun | do i send a diff? |
| 18:06.10 | Elrond | koen - How robust does the neo feel? |
| 18:06.49 | koen | Elrond: like a regular phone |
| 18:07.17 | thresh | tried irssi on it yet? |
| 18:08.13 | balrog-kun | i tried moon-buggy over UART :) |
| 18:09.13 | balrog-kun | there's no hardware keys for playing anything in console :( |
| 18:09.52 | Elrond | balrog-kun - You got a neo?! |
| 18:10.25 | balrog-kun | a virtual one |
| 18:10.32 | balrog-kun | but i touched a real one once :P |
| 18:10.47 | Elrond | hehe ;) |
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| 18:19.33 | Elrond | koen - dfu-util from linux works? |
| 18:19.37 | SpeedEvil | Google-video neo1973 page now has 13400 hits. |
| 18:20.28 | MetaBookfoziS | i add +1 where is that , can you link that? |
| 18:20.44 | SpeedEvil | http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3742589179435830945http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3742589179435830945 |
| 18:20.49 | MetaBookfoziS | thanx |
| 18:20.50 | SpeedEvil | http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3742589179435830945 I mean. However. |
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| 18:21.14 | SpeedEvil | http://rapidshare.com/files/18781887/rect.avi is a much better quality one. |
| 18:21.19 | SpeedEvil | Of the talk at FOSdem. |
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| 18:25.57 | SpeedEvil | I think he's busy. |
| 18:26.08 | MetaBookfoziS | http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-3076348385043013605 |
| 18:26.36 | koen | vmaster: heh |
| 18:29.18 | guaqua | any ideas web browsers for neo? |
| 18:29.25 | SpeedEvil | firefox? :) |
| 18:29.31 | thresh | lynx |
| 18:29.56 | SpeedEvil | I did some testing, and firefox actually works OK at 480*640. |
| 18:30.00 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: wouldn't that be heacy? |
| 18:30.07 | guaqua | heavy i mean, for neo? |
| 18:30.17 | SpeedEvil | And I did use it with a 128M machine PII/300 for ages. |
| 18:30.26 | buz | well a non chrome browser would likely be faster |
| 18:30.30 | Elrond | w3m. ;) |
| 18:30.43 | SpeedEvil | I've now updated to 192M, but the processor is only 3-4 times faster. |
| 18:30.44 | buz | isnt galeon gecko+gtk? |
| 18:30.52 | guaqua | Elrond: :) |
| 18:31.11 | buz | SpeedEvil: personally i find it barely bearable on a 1G machine with 1,6ghz pentium m |
| 18:31.12 | SpeedEvil | It's probably a bit silly, but the main concern would not be slowness, but battery life, due to comparatively high CPU usage. |
| 18:31.20 | *** join/#openmoko hpa (n=hpa@c-67-180-238-27.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 18:31.26 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 18:31.27 | SpeedEvil | Oddly, it seems to slow down disproportionally on faster machines. |
| 18:31.28 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I use it on a regular basis on a PII/350 with 256M. (and used to have 128MB on it, running qemu next to ff.) |
| 18:31.31 | SpeedEvil | I have _no_ idea why. |
| 18:31.50 | guaqua | my main problem with firefox has been with the latency of the gui |
| 18:32.03 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, I have 192M RAM in my PII/300, and some 30 tabs open. |
| 18:32.05 | guaqua | it's been horrible |
| 18:32.11 | buz | lol and here i am looking for ajustification to buy a core 2 duo machine ;) |
| 18:32.24 | SpeedEvil | 10010 is06 15 0 98136 81M 15652 S 0.0 43.3 242:03 0 firefox-bin |
| 18:32.34 | buz | i dont even use firefox very often anymore |
| 18:32.38 | buz | usually i just stick to konqueror |
| 18:32.46 | buz | that one is in ram anyway |
| 18:32.48 | SpeedEvil | I like the extension options. |
| 18:32.53 | buz | yeah so did i |
| 18:33.01 | buz | but unless i actually develop web apps i dont really need any of them |
| 18:33.02 | guaqua | i prefer opera over firefox - and then konqueror when opera doesn't work for something |
| 18:34.37 | guaqua | which engine would you choose if you were to develop a new mobile browser, gecko or khtml? |
| 18:34.43 | buz | webkit |
| 18:34.54 | buz | khtml would need qt |
| 18:35.02 | buz | then again that will eventually end up on openmoko anyway |
| 18:35.22 | buz | (can you run kde in 128mb?) |
| 18:35.30 | mikesh | what about minimo? (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/minimo/) |
| 18:35.35 | SpeedEvil | Remember also, swapping. |
| 18:35.36 | guaqua | i'm just thinking of how light it is and also how does it conform to the standards? |
| 18:35.53 | buz | when i think 128mb i dont think plus swap myself ;) |
| 18:35.55 | SpeedEvil | Swapping to flash is comparatively a bad idea. |
| 18:35.55 | jebba | rwhitby, it built for me this time around so x11-dev issue was fixed somehow/somewhere |
| 18:36.26 | guaqua | mikesh: minimo looks promising |
| 18:36.32 | buz | is minimo even alive? |
| 18:36.46 | _ASK | bad idea = flash degrades with use |
| 18:36.56 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 18:37.04 | buz | with 100000 writes, you can swap for a while |
| 18:37.05 | guaqua | minimo looks like a pure windows ce app |
| 18:37.11 | SpeedEvil | 100K writes per block. |
| 18:37.15 | Elrond | opera is free as in bear, right? |
| 18:37.17 | buz | guaqua: i think it is a pure wince app |
| 18:37.21 | _ASK | no, you can't, it's swapping man. |
| 18:37.22 | buz | Elrond: only for desktop |
| 18:37.30 | mikesh | oh, damn :/ |
| 18:37.38 | guaqua | buz: sure about that= |
| 18:37.41 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 18:37.42 | buz | quite |
| 18:37.44 | guaqua | i didn't pay any for my mobile version |
| 18:37.54 | buz | but the opera guys will surely release an openmoko version |
| 18:38.00 | buz | i guess sooner rather than later even |
| 18:38.04 | guaqua | yep |
| 18:38.07 | jebba | minimo exists outside of windoz, but i don't think it has seen much devel recently. |
| 18:38.19 | guaqua | you can get opera mini for free for mobiles |
| 18:38.20 | jebba | there's dillo... |
| 18:38.31 | jebba | opera isn't free (speech) |
| 18:38.39 | balrog-kun | you can swap to an SD card, i've done that on a Palm PDA |
| 18:38.46 | guaqua | or you can use it for free |
| 18:38.46 | SpeedEvil | For 100 swaps/sec, |
| 18:38.57 | SpeedEvil | you get 10 million swaps per day. |
| 18:39.01 | jebba | guaqua, then why bother with a project like openmoko? |
| 18:39.02 | buz | we dont have java so far |
| 18:39.03 | _ASK | exactly |
| 18:39.05 | SpeedEvil | that's 100 blocks worth. |
| 18:39.29 | guaqua | jebba: ... |
| 18:39.42 | buz | SpeedEvil: which isnt that much |
| 18:39.44 | guaqua | jebba: i'm not the dark jedi here, just checking the alternatives |
| 18:39.48 | buz | but speed will suck badly |
| 18:39.50 | SpeedEvil | If the wear leveling works properly, you can do this for 10000 days, or 300 years. |
| 18:39.54 | _ASK | without mentioning that you never know when to stop using the blocks because individual bits will start to fail prematurely |
| 18:40.01 | balrog-kun | you will never get 100 swaps/sec |
| 18:40.14 | SpeedEvil | Why not? |
| 18:40.17 | buz | _ASK: the flash controller should deal with that |
| 18:40.23 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (i=gabe@nat/ibm/x-8f0bbc0b9ddfc3b6) |
| 18:40.39 | guaqua | jebba: dillo does look good for the platform, at least as a starting point |
| 18:40.40 | balrog-kun | linux only swaps memory that's not used too much, |
| 18:40.40 | _ASK | yeah, but what about the FS sctructure? |
| 18:40.47 | buz | besides, you dont even need to swap everything, if your vm is smart enough code should not ever swap |
| 18:41.01 | buz | cause you can always get the code from the fs |
| 18:41.25 | SpeedEvil | You can wind up memory pressure until it gets slow. |
| 18:41.27 | _ASK | wish they had MRAM ready. |
| 18:41.27 | *** part/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 18:41.32 | SpeedEvil | This will depend on the app load. |
| 18:41.58 | _ASK | nah, they sold one million phones last year |
| 18:42.02 | balrog-kun | well, OPIE runs fine on 16 MB of RAM devices without swap |
| 18:42.07 | _ASK | more than one million neos is unlikely. |
| 18:42.18 | buz | especially P0 ones |
| 18:42.26 | SpeedEvil | FIC don't care about >1 million neos. |
| 18:42.38 | buz | i wonder if the P0 edition will stop shipping once P1 version arrives |
| 18:42.47 | SpeedEvil | They care about being able to ship devices running OpenMoko selling to end users. |
| 18:42.57 | SpeedEvil | Because on that market, they can compete with nokia. |
| 18:42.59 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178101001.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:43.11 | SpeedEvil | Rather than being one of a large number of subcontractors that gets peanuts. |
| 18:43.32 | buz | fic will likely still prefer being subcontractor to not selling anything at all |
| 18:43.37 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 18:43.52 | buz | (tho i have known companies who dont think like that) |
| 18:44.00 | SpeedEvil | However, if they can get into the selling direct to end-users model, then they do not _nearly_ need to sell the same volume. |
| 18:44.05 | _ASK | OPIE looks nice |
| 18:45.47 | _ASK | if they produce a good phone, be sure that Mexico will be among first adopters |
| 18:46.02 | _ASK | TELCEL is buying and rebranding chinese phones |
| 18:46.07 | buz | seems kinda expensive for mexico |
| 18:46.24 | _ASK | no way... they annouce the treo 680 |
| 18:46.30 | _ASK | they sell it for like $600 |
| 18:46.43 | buz | LOL |
| 18:46.49 | buz | i wouldnt buy it for half |
| 18:47.07 | _ASK | well, i tell you, good phone and i'm sure they'll sell it |
| 18:47.48 | buz | i doubt i'll see subsidized neos in switzerland anytime soon |
| 18:48.32 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54950F44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:49.13 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 18:50.12 | Elrond | In Sep, I'll make local carrier phone shops crazy by asking for the neo ;o) |
| 18:50.24 | woglinde | elrond *g* |
| 18:50.27 | _ASK | come on... in switzerland, at $350, and you still need subsidy? |
| 18:50.56 | Elrond | _ASK - add customs and VAT. |
| 18:51.09 | _ASK | oh, that. |
| 18:51.22 | buz | VAT is actually humane in switzerland at 7.6% |
| 18:51.32 | buz | however, competing against mostly free with contract phones is hard |
| 18:51.50 | buz | and you can get the like of sony ericsson KG800 for free these days |
| 18:52.03 | Elrond | buz - I should import my neo via switzerland ;) |
| 18:52.21 | buz | i doubt that works |
| 18:52.54 | _ASK | well, VGA screen and a decent os, is worth paying a bit for the thing |
| 18:53.07 | _ASK | although... well, i would like to see openmoko in my treo. |
| 18:53.30 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:53.41 | balrog-kun | _ASK: have you tried? |
| 18:53.51 | buz | now wtf happened just now |
| 18:53.53 | buz | _ASK: it is for me |
| 18:53.57 | buz | i gladly shell out 350$ for it |
| 18:54.06 | buz | in fact, throw wifi into the mix and i'll go higher even |
| 18:54.10 | buz | but for most? no |
| 18:54.12 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 18:54.25 | _ASK | they'll release new models later |
| 18:54.30 | _ASK | this is mostly for development |
| 18:55.00 | balrog-kun | the kernel does run on the Treo 650 and 680, you should be able to boot openmoko off the SD |
| 18:55.41 | _ASK | i'll try when it's a bit more stable |
| 18:55.59 | _ASK | http://www.clubimate.com/ultimate/ <- tough competition |
| 18:58.53 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-95-218.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:59.16 | xkr47 | I hope they will keep selling openmoko with the current setup |
| 18:59.24 | xkr47 | at a lower price if possible |
| 18:59.31 | xkr47 | and then keep inventing new models with more stuff |
| 18:59.58 | _ASK | well, it's better, economically speaking, to add more deatures than to sell the old model for less |
| 19:00.04 | _ASK | more features doesn't cost that much |
| 19:00.21 | xkr47 | well.. there have often been SX processors, celerons etc |
| 19:00.44 | xkr47 | people buy them because they are cheap |
| 19:00.47 | _ASK | yeah, but they charge offensively for the high end models, which i doubt FIC does on the neo |
| 19:00.51 | *** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E725.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:00.55 | xkr47 | true |
| 19:00.59 | xkr47 | well, let's see |
| 19:01.21 | _ASK | hope they release a phone like the ultimate 8150 |
| 19:01.27 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=cworth@c-67-160-161-141.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:01.29 | _ASK | 94mm x 50mm x 11mm with 2.6 VGA... =) |
| 19:02.02 | xkr47 | I'd like openmoko to have screwholes along the sides |
| 19:02.14 | SpeedEvil | That's easy to do. |
| 19:02.15 | xkr47 | so there could be 3rd party hardware that you could just screw on :) |
| 19:02.24 | SpeedEvil | See [[Expansion Back]] |
| 19:02.44 | SpeedEvil | It's actually pretty much possible to do quite a lot with just a replacement back. |
| 19:02.49 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, :) |
| 19:03.06 | cworth | Why would people trust source code to a tool in that state? |
| 19:03.09 | _ASK | do you guys know fastap? |
| 19:03.11 | xkr47 | yeah.. I'd like a typical 12-button keyboard for speedy sms typing with thumb |
| 19:03.21 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure. |
| 19:03.56 | SpeedEvil | I don't really need the feel of the buttons for texting so much. |
| 19:04.03 | _ASK | i think in Asia they underestimate the value of a decent keyboard |
| 19:04.28 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - as sequential char selection may take weeks per char in some sets :) |
| 19:04.34 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 19:04.35 | cworth | _ASK: "decent" is quite unavailable at this form factor of course... |
| 19:04.56 | _ASK | well, yes... by decent i mean one key per letter |
| 19:05.36 | cworth | _ASK: Go binary! Only two keys needed! |
| 19:06.02 | cworth | (Though, yes, in general, the more physical buttons the better as far as I'm concerned.) |
| 19:06.07 | guaqua | i'd like to see a good morse code input ;) |
| 19:06.16 | cworth | And LEDs---clearly the neo1973 could use some LEDs. |
| 19:06.19 | _ASK | i can type nearly as fast on the treo as i can on my laptop |
| 19:06.32 | guaqua | traditional style here, no fancy two-button automatic keyers ;) |
| 19:06.47 | cworth | guaqua: Perfect. The neo does give you exaclty the one button you need. |
| 19:07.03 | guaqua | cworth: but the software, that's more complicated :) |
| 19:08.01 | DesktopMa | just hook up a wiimote, lots of buttons :P |
| 19:08.21 | *** join/#openmoko Nik0 (n=lewmnik@dsl-hkigw8-feedf900-96.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:08.34 | *** join/#openmoko cworth (n=cworth@c-67-160-161-141.hsd1.or.comcast.net) |
| 19:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 19:12.20 | Elrond | cworth - I don't really care for LEDs. Having the lcd transflective might be nicer. |
| 19:16.16 | stefan_schmidt | philippe: How was my bottle of beer? :) |
| 19:17.10 | woglinde | hi stefan |
| 19:17.10 | prpplague | stefan_schmidt: what kind of beer? |
| 19:17.18 | philippe | hi stefan_schmidt |
| 19:17.18 | stefan_schmidt | hi woglinde |
| 19:17.36 | philippe | stefan_schmidt: I expect it to be good. Had no time yet to drink it :-) |
| 19:17.56 | philippe | But if you come next year again I will make up for it and pay you some. |
| 19:18.24 | stefan_schmidt | prpplague: No idea. It was my speaker gift at fosdem, but I forget it. |
| 19:18.28 | *** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk) |
| 19:18.37 | stefan_schmidt | philippe: I'll will be there. No question. |
| 19:18.47 | philippe | prpplague: Achel trappist |
| 19:18.49 | stefan_schmidt | philippe: Was a nice event |
| 19:19.22 | philippe | I missed a few people and would have liked to hang out a bit more at the OE booth |
| 19:19.30 | *** join/#openmoko _law_ (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 19:19.53 | stefan_schmidt | philippe: That's the problem doing a job at the fosdem. But somebody has to do it and you did it well |
| 19:20.20 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.141) |
| 19:20.43 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, 270 people here. Would be interesting when we get the 300. |
| 19:21.09 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway, I have a long night of openmoko work in front of me. cu later. |
| 19:21.42 | prpplague | philippe: oh lovely |
| 19:24.16 | philippe | stefan_schmidt: you lucky guy... mine is somewhere in Germany atm... |
| 19:25.31 | stefan_schmidt | philippe: ah, no. I don't have it yet. But there is enough other stuff to do. I like to be prepared when it arrives. |
| 19:28.20 | *** join/#openmoko timotimo (n=timotimo@216.127.56.5) |
| 19:29.37 | *** join/#openmoko Nik0 (n=lewmnik@dsl-hkigw8-feedf900-96.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:29.49 | cworth | philippe: FOSDEM was almost insanely hectic. I had hoped to meet a lot more openmoko/openembedded people there than I had time to. |
| 19:30.04 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@132.Red-88-9-90.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:31.14 | philippe | cworth: those things happen... and with an estimated 4500 to 5000 people that can happen... |
| 19:44.07 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-42-136-192.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:46.15 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 19:46.16 | cworth | Ah, nice. The phone isn't orange after all. :-) |
| 19:46.53 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-819e95da94a427da) |
| 19:47.33 | cworth | But I'm feeling too stupid to figure out how to put the microSD card in... :-} |
| 19:47.57 | aloril2 | previous nick count record was 270 at 2007-02-26 (a bit ago was 272) |
| 19:48.22 | parag0n | you got one? |
| 19:48.33 | parag0n | the microsd card goes under the SIM doesnt it? |
| 19:48.34 | cworth | parag0n: Yes, just arrived. |
| 19:48.59 | parag0n | luxureh! |
| 19:49.38 | parag0n | can;t wait5 until p1 starts ^__^ |
| 19:50.39 | loufoque | I thought I was going to buy a p1 phone but then I realized the hardware was gonna be improved a while after that |
| 19:50.41 | cjb | cworth: yeah, the micro SD slot does come up if you pull hard enough. |
| 19:50.53 | cjb | I made a coworker do it. ;-) |
| 19:51.10 | cworth | parag0n: I admit that I'm somewhat embarrassed to be singled out for early access. |
| 19:51.24 | cworth | cjb: Oh. So clearly I wasn't daring enough... |
| 19:51.29 | parag0n | well, if you dont want it... ;) |
| 19:51.56 | parag0n | huzzah, p1 will have SPI on the debug header |
| 19:52.02 | parag0n | harware modding ftw |
| 19:52.03 | buz | http://www.varioptic.com/res/products/AFCM-MI285-Camera-Module-v2.pdf one should fit that into neo's hole |
| 19:52.30 | cjb | parag0n: ooh. is there a PLCC socket or something? |
| 19:52.44 | SpeedEvil | I wanted SPI/USB/VCC on a connector next to the battery - inside,. |
| 19:52.48 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 19:52.52 | cjb | or do you just get to write SPI and lose horribly if it goes wrong? |
| 19:52.58 | SpeedEvil | A flat circuit cnnector. |
| 19:53.02 | parag0n | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_top.jpg <-- top left of there |
| 19:56.14 | buz | so maybe SPI is the thing everyone wanted? |
| 19:57.18 | buz | The Neo1973 has one microSD aka Transflash slot. This supports cards up to 2Gb. It does not support SDHC, so will not support some cards over this. No card of over 4G will work. |
| 19:57.30 | buz | shouldnt it in fact read no card over 2G will work? |
| 19:57.48 | LaF0rge | speed: no usb |
| 19:58.03 | LaF0rge | who states that it doesn't support sdhc? |
| 19:58.10 | buz | the wiki |
| 19:58.10 | LaF0rge | stop spreading rumours! |
| 19:58.23 | stefan_schmidt | buz: It support sdhc just not tested |
| 19:58.31 | buz | thats what i thought |
| 19:58.32 | stefan_schmidt | buz: micrSD starts at 4GB |
| 19:58.42 | buz | microsdhc yes |
| 19:58.42 | LaF0rge | true is: we don't know if it supports SDHC. we have not yet been able to obtain a 4GB sample |
| 19:58.53 | stefan_schmidt | buz: right |
| 19:58.56 | LaF0rge | even FIC can't find one in taiwan |
| 19:59.10 | buz | LaF0rge: i think they dont actually exist yet |
| 19:59.30 | buz | (its hard enough to get minisdhc) |
| 20:00.18 | SpeedEvil | :) /me goes to correct the wiki. Why not simply take a 4G card and an adaptor? |
| 20:00.30 | SpeedEvil | fullsize -> micro |
| 20:00.34 | buz | i dont think i've seen big to small adaptors yet |
| 20:00.38 | stefan_schmidt | buz: If the wiki stated no microSDHC could you please fix this? Would be nice. |
| 20:00.55 | buz | must create account first ;) |
| 20:01.15 | buz | SpeedEvil: http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Neo1973_Hardware&action=edit§ion=11 |
| 20:01.17 | stefan_schmidt | buz: SpeedEvil does it for you. :) |
| 20:01.20 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: thx |
| 20:01.54 | *** part/#openmoko _law_ (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 20:01.55 | LaF0rge | i have some interesting adaptor picture, but its in the internal wiki :( |
| 20:01.56 | buz | neov2 must have 5.1 sound |
| 20:02.05 | buz | (not sure what for, it just needs it) |
| 20:02.29 | buz | (just like we all need to upgrade 5.1 homecinema to 7.1 for some reason) |
| 20:02.29 | parag0n | and a projector! |
| 20:02.40 | buz | parag0n: THAT would actually make some sense |
| 20:02.48 | parag0n | and bluray / hddvd playback at 1080p |
| 20:02.54 | buz | of course |
| 20:02.56 | vmaster | could we add popcorn machine and a beer cooler? |
| 20:03.05 | buz | and that samsung 7inch 1080p lcd |
| 20:03.12 | guaqua | have you read about those really small projectors? |
| 20:03.17 | buz | yes |
| 20:03.25 | buz | seem kinda useless with current light output |
| 20:04.18 | SpeedEvil | The Neo1973 has one microSD aka Transflash slot. It should support SDHC, but this has not been tested. If this works, cards >2G should work with no problems. As there are no microSD cards over 2G at the moment, it hsan't been tested. |
| 20:04.32 | SpeedEvil | sigh |
| 20:05.59 | parag0n | there probably will be regular microSD 4GB cards sometime soonish |
| 20:06.08 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:06.10 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 20:06.11 | parag0n | since you can get 4gb SD cards |
| 20:06.20 | SpeedEvil | It's a trivial adaptor to make though. |
| 20:06.45 | buz | i'm not sure about those regular SD 4G cards |
| 20:06.52 | buz | they are beyond the standard in any case |
| 20:07.07 | SpeedEvil | Iit's the 2G cards that can be beyond the standard AIUI. |
| 20:07.13 | buz | starting at 4G, you are in SDHC territory |
| 20:07.17 | SpeedEvil | The 4G ones are all SDHC |
| 20:07.27 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 20:07.31 | buz | actually there are some that dont say a thing of SDHC |
| 20:07.37 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 20:07.39 | buz | but maybe thats just the vendor being especially daft |
| 20:07.51 | buz | 2G is covered by SD standard i believe |
| 20:07.52 | SpeedEvil | Or perhaps not wanting to pay the extra fee. |
| 20:08.00 | buz | those have been shipping for along time now |
| 20:08.08 | SpeedEvil | I assume there is an extra fee. |
| 20:08.33 | noidd | So, Michael S is claiming first neo in the wild |
| 20:08.33 | Elrond | Did I hear that right, that the P1 will include a 512M microsd? |
| 20:08.37 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 20:08.42 | noidd | do we know who got it first - him or Koen? |
| 20:08.44 | SpeedEvil | IIRC koen said 512 came. |
| 20:08.45 | buz | who cares |
| 20:08.57 | buz | 1G is now about 6EUR |
| 20:09.03 | noidd | It's a bit of fun - hardly serious :-P |
| 20:09.04 | SpeedEvil | Not micro |
| 20:09.08 | koen | I heard sean saying p1 will have 512 |
| 20:09.09 | buz | sure |
| 20:09.14 | SpeedEvil | micro is a bit more. in ones. |
| 20:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko jetpeach (n=chatzill@dhcp196-120.ee.washington.edu) |
| 20:09.17 | buz | 1G kingston microsd is 10CHF |
| 20:09.23 | buz | which is roughly 7EUR |
| 20:09.26 | SpeedEvil | K. |
| 20:09.38 | SpeedEvil | Maybe my vendor just sucks. |
| 20:09.45 | Psi | be nice if we could pay abit more for p1 and get a 1gb card with it |
| 20:09.48 | Elrond | buz - In the normal "next door reseller store"? |
| 20:09.50 | rwhitby | "3/6/2007 10:42 pm Depart Facility. Singapore, Singapore" :-( |
| 20:09.57 | buz | Elrond: lowest price online |
| 20:10.04 | buz | in next door store probably 3 times that |
| 20:10.06 | Psi | saves having a 512 card left over |
| 20:10.13 | SpeedEvil | I want the 512 card to have a 'restore from backup' option on it. |
| 20:10.21 | Psi | hehe\ |
| 20:10.22 | SpeedEvil | Keep it in a keyring case. |
| 20:11.14 | buz | cheapest price shipped is more like 12EUR though |
| 20:11.26 | Elrond | I like the current hardware choosing. Only thing I dislike curenntly is the logos all over the lanyard. I'm probably not going to use it. ;) |
| 20:11.29 | buz | (from a reputable source even) |
| 20:11.41 | buz | does anyone really wear a phone around their neck? |
| 20:11.48 | buz | i dont even do that with usb stick mp3players |
| 20:11.55 | SpeedEvil | I wear a torch - that's about 1/2 the weight. |
| 20:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko Sufflope (n=Sufflope@crj95-3-82-237-151-219.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:11.59 | *** join/#openmoko law|ibook (n=_law_@213.173.86.202) |
| 20:12.06 | SpeedEvil | And have worn mp3 players there. |
| 20:12.08 | buz | the neo is rather heavy as far as phones go |
| 20:12.09 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54950F44.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:12.12 | Elrond | I wear my monocular. ;) |
| 20:12.17 | SpeedEvil | Typically under a t-shirt. |
| 20:12.17 | buz | i wear a shuffle at my collar |
| 20:12.47 | buz | but honestly, i have never seen anyone wearing a PHONE |
| 20:13.09 | SpeedEvil | For pocket wear though, it'll need a hardcase. |
| 20:13.55 | buz | i have carried my p900 for 3+ years without any case in my pockets |
| 20:14.03 | Elrond | Yeah, a hardcase would also be nice instead of the lanyard. My current phone is rugged, which I like a lot. |
| 20:14.09 | buz | sure, the silly silverish makeup wore off, but it still lives |
| 20:15.01 | buz | more important: if it gets a cam, it should have a sliding lenscover |
| 20:15.22 | Elrond | hehe. I don't want a cam on it. :) |
| 20:15.37 | SpeedEvil | I want a cam that can be removed from the back. |
| 20:15.59 | buz | get an usb webcam and stick it into the hole |
| 20:16.04 | guaqua | i'm thinking a cam can only be useful when it has edge/3g |
| 20:16.11 | SpeedEvil | Of course not. |
| 20:16.22 | buz | a good cam would be eminently useful |
| 20:16.24 | guaqua | so that it can be used in video calls |
| 20:16.26 | buz | but good cams are very rare |
| 20:16.32 | buz | video calls is one truly useless feature |
| 20:16.33 | SpeedEvil | You can use the cam for gesture interfacing, taking pictures of things , ... |
| 20:16.39 | SpeedEvil | barcodes |
| 20:16.46 | buz | ... women ... |
| 20:16.49 | SpeedEvil | note-taking. |
| 20:17.00 | guaqua | taking pictures |
| 20:17.05 | benJIman | Gesture interfacing, heh, sounds like a way of saying "Please steal my phone" |
| 20:17.08 | SpeedEvil | And the stereotypical 'pictures of drunk friends' use. |
| 20:17.39 | Elrond | hehe. |
| 20:17.41 | xkr47 | heh alcometer-by-gestures |
| 20:17.43 | guaqua | well the pictures of drunk friends is the most useful thing in a cam |
| 20:18.05 | guaqua | or moreso the stunts they pull |
| 20:18.21 | buz | for that video is more useful |
| 20:18.43 | SpeedEvil | Also - radom stuff, like pictures of price labels in shops, when looking round for prices. |
| 20:19.12 | guaqua | SpeedEvil: how many times have you actually done that? |
| 20:19.14 | SpeedEvil | Or for stuff that the label has fallen off, you take a picture of the shelf label, to make it so that they don't have to go back and look. |
| 20:19.21 | SpeedEvil | Quite commonly actually. |
| 20:19.32 | guaqua | i did it once and then ended deleting the pictures cos they were of so bad quality |
| 20:19.37 | buz | i dont buy stuff that lacks labels usually |
| 20:19.37 | SpeedEvil | DIY stuff, comparing prices for stuff I'm considering buying on ebay. |
| 20:20.03 | koen | I must admit that I'm using the stylus more than the neo |
| 20:20.04 | buz | guaqua: these days there are decent cams |
| 20:20.07 | buz | not many but a few |
| 20:20.08 | SpeedEvil | I mean stuff like expanded metal mesh, that the barcode label falls off of. |
| 20:20.08 | koen | laser! |
| 20:20.23 | buz | mhh now we only need some sharks |
| 20:20.39 | SpeedEvil | USB-interfaced sharks. |
| 20:20.53 | buz | bluetooth |
| 20:20.53 | SpeedEvil | With waterproof neo cases. |
| 20:21.12 | SpeedEvil | Don't be silly, bluetooth doesn't penetrate water. |
| 20:21.19 | SpeedEvil | It'd be no use for controlling sharks. |
| 20:21.24 | *** join/#openmoko ozzloy (i=ozzloy@unaffiliated/ozzloy) |
| 20:21.24 | guaqua | some sort of cover for the display is my number one addition |
| 20:21.56 | SpeedEvil | A protective film is vital - but even with that, breaking a touchscreen is easy. |
| 20:22.07 | buz | i dont think so |
| 20:22.19 | buz | i regularly break all kinds of stuff |
| 20:22.23 | buz | never broke a touchscreen |
| 20:22.23 | SpeedEvil | easy for carelss people. |
| 20:23.20 | buz | a bluetooth watch to go with neo |
| 20:23.23 | buz | ow that would be neat |
| 20:23.38 | guaqua | haven't been able to break my nokia, but considering it's keypad works at about 50% rate (not half the buttons, but most buttons half the time) i don't think i'm taking risks with good hardware :) |
| 20:24.49 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - What should one avoid? |
| 20:25.00 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 20:25.18 | Elrond | ... so not to break the touchscreen. |
| 20:25.20 | SpeedEvil | Sitting on it is bad. |
| 20:25.28 | Psi | avoid putting the phone in your pocket when there are other things in there |
| 20:25.30 | buz | lol |
| 20:25.37 | buz | dont put your phone in the back pocket |
| 20:25.44 | Psi | give your phone its own pocket :P |
| 20:25.46 | SpeedEvil | Putting the touchscreen face-out is even worse than face-in. |
| 20:25.52 | buz | and maybe not in the same pocket as pointy things |
| 20:25.55 | SpeedEvil | If you're in confined spaces. |
| 20:26.48 | Elrond | Hmm, my current phone lives in its own trouser pocket. |
| 20:26.53 | guaqua | my old palm used to have a flap |
| 20:27.12 | Psi | ive always kept my phone in my left pocket where nothing else is, so ill just keep doing that |
| 20:27.13 | guaqua | which actually worked and didn't take too much extra space |
| 20:27.56 | buz | Psi: yeah that works good |
| 20:28.36 | Elrond | Psi - Yeah, ilke me... We need a screen lock. ;) |
| 20:28.42 | buz | just leatherman and phone doesnt really mix very well |
| 20:28.58 | Psi | it will have a screen lock by the time its a real product |
| 20:29.02 | Psi | i have no doubt of that |
| 20:29.03 | Elrond | buz - keys and phone nicer. |
| 20:29.19 | Elrond | s/nicer/neither/ |
| 20:29.19 | buz | depends on the keys really |
| 20:29.21 | guaqua | it'll have a screen lock by the time it is actually used by someone :) |
| 20:29.28 | buz | most modern keys we have here are totally rounded |
| 20:29.34 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-027.eplus-online.de) |
| 20:29.39 | Psi | heh |
| 20:29.56 | Elrond | buz - I still have lots of old style keys. |
| 20:30.06 | buz | only car is old style here |
| 20:30.15 | buz | and i never carry that one unless i have the car |
| 20:30.41 | guaqua | none of my keys are rounded |
| 20:31.04 | Elrond | I still wonder, how rounded keys look. |
| 20:31.13 | guaqua | yes |
| 20:31.45 | buz | http://www.kaba.ch/produkte/schliesssysteme/mechanik.html?&L=1 like this |
| 20:32.46 | buz | (8 and 20 are very common here) |
| 20:34.15 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah. ;) |
| 20:34.18 | Elrond | <-- gets food. |
| 20:34.34 | buz | i doubt the manufacturer will post actual keys on their page |
| 20:35.17 | buz | i want that meizu m8 to be for real |
| 20:35.23 | buz | and able to run openmoko |
| 20:35.35 | vmaster | wasn't there a voting machine for which they successfully manufactured keys just using pics from the web? |
| 20:39.03 | PBeck | counter |
| 20:39.03 | aloril | P0: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/ P1: 3 weeks, 4 days 15:20:56 (25.640 +-7.0 days) (see faq) (491) |
| 20:39.36 | PBeck | cool pics :D |
| 20:41.37 | ultralisk | man i can't wait to get one |
| 20:43.16 | PBeck | is the pen with laser and so on, in every basic kit? |
| 20:43.47 | PBeck | i mean the combi stylus ^^ |
| 20:44.07 | PBeck | the case is nice too :) |
| 20:44.14 | PBeck | an of course the phone ;) |
| 20:44.17 | PBeck | *and |
| 20:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB555BC.ipt.aol.com) |
| 20:46.42 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 20:47.03 | buz | sean was hinting at a "very nice stylus" |
| 20:47.09 | buz | so i think this is the standard one indeed |
| 20:48.06 | buz | those sell for 1.60$ on ebay btw ;) |
| 20:48.39 | buz | http://cgi.ebay.com/4in1-PDA-Stylus-LED-Light-Torch-Laser-Pointer-Pen-h7_W0QQitemZ280089656134QQi |
| 20:48.43 | buz | looks rather similar |
| 20:49.36 | ultralisk | i'd forget that i had it on the pen and write on my screen... |
| 20:50.06 | buz | yeah i think its the same |
| 20:50.10 | buz | possibly minus the led light |
| 20:50.26 | buz | http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=412593301&size=l looks identical |
| 20:51.01 | buz | (and the thing is huge compared to the phone) |
| 20:53.58 | parag0n | buz, you have a neo? |
| 20:54.03 | disq | comes with a guitar pick? |
| 20:54.03 | buz | no |
| 20:54.11 | parag0n | :< |
| 20:54.18 | buz | but koen does |
| 20:54.26 | parag0n | can someone who has one take a photo of it next to a coke can? |
| 20:54.38 | parag0n | i need to get some perspective on the size ;) |
| 20:54.49 | ultralisk | i have a coke can but no neo :) |
| 20:54.59 | buz | i have neither |
| 20:55.04 | SpeedEvil | It almost entirely fits in a coke can. |
| 20:55.10 | SpeedEvil | 2-3mm sticks out the top. |
| 20:55.26 | SpeedEvil | And it's a little shorter than the diameter. |
| 20:55.35 | SpeedEvil | narrower I mean. |
| 20:57.06 | disq | it looks like your common S60 phone size |
| 20:57.30 | disq | or SE's walkman phones |
| 20:57.31 | buz | slightly thicker maybe |
| 20:57.41 | buz | mhh the walkman phones are smaller i think |
| 20:57.50 | SpeedEvil | Get a bit of cheese, and start whittling. |
| 20:58.07 | buz | ? |
| 20:58.22 | SpeedEvil | cheese + measurements + picture. |
| 20:58.27 | SpeedEvil | = model neo. |
| 20:58.42 | buz | LOL |
| 20:58.47 | buz | i keep my p900 as reference |
| 20:58.51 | greghunt | cheese is too tasty |
| 20:58.53 | buz | slightly wider and slightly higher |
| 20:59.21 | buz | maybe SpeedEvil is referring to what is sold as cheese in the us |
| 21:03.03 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081F9D0.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:03.11 | PBeck | hm its only so big how a walkman phone from se? |
| 21:03.20 | buz | slightly bigger |
| 21:03.31 | buz | think small pda |
| 21:04.08 | PBeck | btw to my dicussion above: The pen/laser/stylus are cool :D |
| 21:04.22 | PBeck | buz: that sounds good |
| 21:04.40 | PBeck | we need a paper modell, how the iphone ^^ |
| 21:04.48 | buz | i think someone did one |
| 21:07.11 | rwhitby | wow - someone translated the MokoMakefile wiki page into russian. thanks! |
| 21:07.13 | PBeck | http://www.iphonecountdown.com/iphone_readymech.pdf <= hehe |
| 21:07.15 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile/ru |
| 21:07.44 | disq | so what does 1973 symbolize? the year? |
| 21:07.53 | SpeedEvil | first cellphone call. |
| 21:07.56 | Stephmw | good lord. http://www.micronovae.com/CSP.html |
| 21:08.32 | disq | first cellphone call costed $1973? that's a hell of an airtime |
| 21:08.56 | moo_tang_clan | disq: it was to a premium rate number |
| 21:09.20 | disq | that explains it |
| 21:17.37 | cjb | It's somewhat surprising we aren't all using the same NAND image. |
| 21:17.47 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 21:18.34 | buz | http://www.flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=412663954&size=l wow that one is really impressing |
| 21:19.43 | cjb | wonder if anyone's managed to actually use the GSM yet. |
| 21:19.52 | cjb | or is that one of the broken hardware parts? |
| 21:20.07 | buz | half broken anyway |
| 21:20.28 | cjb | D'oh. How? |
| 21:20.32 | PBeck | the neo is to thin how my w800i |
| 21:21.08 | PBeck | but its a big wider and longer |
| 21:21.19 | buz | makes weird noise i believe |
| 21:21.29 | cjb | huh. |
| 21:21.41 | PBeck | s/to/so |
| 21:21.59 | stefan_schmidt | cjb, buz: loud sidetone. Fixable with a firmware update for BP |
| 21:22.32 | cjb | what's BP? |
| 21:22.44 | vmaster | baseband processor |
| 21:22.51 | vmaster | as opposed to AP, application processor |
| 21:23.03 | cjb | ah. can you do that on p0 units, in the field? |
| 21:23.22 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: good question |
| 21:24.16 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: The problem is the windows firmware flasher from TI and the distribution of the firmware itself. |
| 21:24.38 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: There is no clear statement about it right now. |
| 21:24.48 | cjb | yuck. they didn't give you redistributable firmware? |
| 21:25.16 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: hmm, perhaps I'm wrong here. |
| 21:25.48 | rwhitby | stefan_schmidt: that's my understanding as well, from what LaF0rge said |
| 21:25.49 | buz | i think you cant do it in the field |
| 21:25.54 | buz | (from what i understand) |
| 21:26.06 | rwhitby | you can, but are not allowed to, is my understanding. |
| 21:26.10 | vmaster | always thought you'd need to sign some kind of faustian deal to get anywhere near GSM baseband |
| 21:26.16 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: Should be mentioned on the wiki or ml when we have something definitiv about it. |
| 21:26.46 | *** join/#openmoko oskude (n=osku@dslb-088-068-024-038.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 21:26.57 | stefan_schmidt | vmaster: Right. I'll take a long look at the NDA before signing it. :) |
| 21:27.08 | buz | rwhitby: yes, can, but must not do it |
| 21:27.09 | stefan_schmidt | vmaster: Not baseband but other docs |
| 21:27.21 | vmaster | stefan_schmidt: heh, ok |
| 21:27.28 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 21:27.42 | buz | so managed to call anyone yet? |
| 21:27.43 | rwhitby | koen: bastard. mine is still in flight. |
| 21:27.50 | woglinde | lol |
| 21:28.09 | woglinde | mean everyone should switch to .nl hahaha |
| 21:28.12 | stefan_schmidt | All P0 devs with such a phone get another one without this bug anyway. So it should not be such a big problem. |
| 21:28.40 | stefan_schmidt | And for a hacking only phone the sidetone should be ok |
| 21:29.01 | rwhitby | stefan_schmidt: does sidetone affect what the other party hears, or what you hear in bluetooth headset? |
| 21:29.13 | stefan_schmidt | rwhitby: no idea |
| 21:30.24 | balrog-kun | has anyone tried following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/NAND_bad_blocks ? how's u-boot supposed to know where the environment is located after reboot? |
| 21:37.35 | *** join/#openmoko mave_pan (n=me@dD5763251.access.telenet.be) |
| 21:39.51 | Elrond | balrog-kun - Search for dynenv. |
| 21:39.54 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54952112.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:40.23 | Elrond | balrog-kun - The block of the env is stored in the first block. |
| 21:41.22 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p54952CC5.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:41.55 | Elrond | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_Product_IDs |
| 21:42.10 | Elrond | Why does the kernel need different IDs for different services?! |
| 21:43.51 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Because the application on the host detect the service on the ID |
| 21:44.01 | buz | so the host can know what to do? |
| 21:44.11 | stefan_schmidt | buz: Yes |
| 21:44.19 | buz | lol |
| 21:44.23 | buz | i was too slow |
| 21:44.34 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 21:44.34 | Elrond | I think, USB can have more than one "function" per ID/device. |
| 21:44.54 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: It can |
| 21:45.21 | balrog-kun | Elrond: oh ok, it appears u-boot knows where the environemnt is, it was just failing crc comparison (now checking why) |
| 21:45.53 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - So hosts get confused by that? |
| 21:46.25 | Elrond | balrog-kun - You got a neo?! |
| 21:47.30 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Every usb config can have different interfaces (which has again endpoints) |
| 21:47.43 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@CPE001839ecaf97-CM00407b87b341.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:48.07 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: But it's cleaner to have a different ID anyway |
| 21:49.04 | balrog-kun | Elrond: a virtual one :P |
| 21:49.44 | Elrond | I don't understand, why this is cleaner. It's one phone, one usb connector. One ID should be the right thing. |
| 21:51.04 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Some of the ID ranges are already used in drivers. |
| 21:51.15 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Driver for usbnet, usb-serial... |
| 21:51.42 | Elrond | They have openmoko specific IDs already in there? |
| 21:52.02 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-102-0.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:52.04 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: If you like to get all the deep technical details you have to ask LaF0rge |
| 21:52.42 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - tihi. I wonder, if he has a little more time, as the p0-stress has stopped. |
| 21:53.13 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Even more stress. There is *a lot* to do for P1 |
| 21:53.36 | Elrond | I guessed that. |
| 21:54.01 | SpeedEvil | Can the neo talk 'directly' to two different bluetooth headsets, without going through the audio path? For example, for them to act as an intercom? |
| 21:54.45 | LoDown | SpeedEvil: i would think that would be dependant most upon the BT chip in the phone |
| 21:54.54 | *** join/#openmoko infernix (i=nix@unaffiliated/infernix) |
| 21:54.54 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: huh, no idea. There was not much bt testing yet. |
| 21:56.16 | SpeedEvil | It's more a generic question on the protocol - I'm wondering how much hardware and how much is software in the stack. |
| 21:56.30 | SpeedEvil | I suppose I should do more reading. |
| 21:57.46 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (i=gabe@nat/ibm/x-5207352d8ab0d1d8) |
| 21:59.05 | *** join/#openmoko marcel_ (n=marcel@gentoo/contributor/marcel) |
| 21:59.55 | Elrond | Is the included headset BT or wired? |
| 22:00.01 | SpeedEvil | wire |
| 22:00.22 | SpeedEvil | From what I saw in the pics. |
| 22:01.18 | Elrond | One of the wishlist ideas is to turn the neo into a BT headset emulator. ;) |
| 22:02.05 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. Intercom between multiple BT headsets might be cool too. |
| 22:02.40 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z65e9.z.pppool.de) |
| 22:04.41 | Elrond | hehe, you mean like in the movies? ;) |
| 22:04.49 | SpeedEvil | yeah - wired http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/412593301/in/set-72157594573486523/ |
| 22:05.07 | peepsalot | use neo to emulate a bt headset? like to use with another phone? why? |
| 22:05.39 | SpeedEvil | To make it so that you can have another phone on your person, and not need to take it out of your pocket. |
| 22:06.01 | Elrond | peepsalot - Like to use with your BT enabled sound equipment. ;) |
| 22:06.05 | SpeedEvil | Or that. |
| 22:06.24 | peepsalot | speedevil: lol, i guess. who carries around two phones though, and if you already had the neo out, why not just call from it |
| 22:06.51 | Elrond | Because the other phone is for your $work/$company. |
| 22:07.09 | peepsalot | ok. i guess it would be neat to use as a PC mic |
| 22:07.20 | SpeedEvil | Or transparent VOIP, ... |
| 22:07.28 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 22:07.35 | Elrond | But for that BTnet would suffice. |
| 22:08.03 | Elrond | Hmm. BT mic for winblows apps. ;) |
| 22:08.07 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning for a headset for a VOIP phoneset. |
| 22:08.33 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p213.54.168.170.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 22:08.50 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh. Well, the neo could do voip via BTnet too then. :) (of course, if you mean voip phone at $company. Yeah.) |
| 22:12.46 | *** join/#openmoko peepsalot (n=peepsalo@cpe-70-112-25-110.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 22:15.50 | Elrond | Hmm, if the neo-bt really does like 50m or so, it could be a nice 2way radio. :) |
| 22:16.28 | SpeedEvil | Alas - no. |
| 22:16.37 | SpeedEvil | It's been stated earlier that it's 10m or so only. |
| 22:16.44 | Elrond | Oh, okay. |
| 22:17.00 | SpeedEvil | It would be very nice if that's wrong of course. |
| 22:17.48 | Elrond | koen can try, IF he has some other BT equipment... or much later, when he gets the p1 one. |
| 22:18.00 | SpeedEvil | That true. |
| 22:18.24 | SpeedEvil | I don't know what BT's status is now. |
| 22:19.17 | rob_w | i never saw BT bigger then 10m .. really i mean |
| 22:19.41 | SpeedEvil | It's got to have the high power on both ends is the problem. |
| 22:19.58 | SpeedEvil | So headsets/... won't work to long distances. |
| 22:20.21 | Elrond | rob_w - I always hear those stories of people in conferences (on security) starting their BT eqipment and getting the phnoe in the other rooms. |
| 22:20.27 | buz | there supposedly is high powered BT |
| 22:20.30 | buz | never seen it though |
| 22:20.51 | SpeedEvil | Metal does wierd stuff to BT. |
| 22:20.53 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 22:21.00 | buz | Elrond: well that might be special BT equipment there |
| 22:21.06 | buz | not your average USB dongle in any case |
| 22:21.37 | rob_w | for walls like in germany , with concrete , you hardly will get 10M wifi connections if there are 2 walls in your direct path |
| 22:21.41 | SpeedEvil | If you've got a metal corner, it can act as a reflector, for example. |
| 22:21.54 | rob_w | and i meant 802.11x |
| 22:21.57 | SpeedEvil | I can lose my wireless AP from 4m away. |
| 22:22.06 | SpeedEvil | 1m stone walls. |
| 22:22.36 | rob_w | this kinda radio is notbe reflected .. your data will go crazy and you actually cant establish i think |
| 22:22.43 | SpeedEvil | 800Mhz GSM works well. |
| 22:22.50 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Where do you live, that you have 1m stone walls? |
| 22:22.57 | SpeedEvil | 1.2, or 2.4, not so well. |
| 22:23.10 | rob_w | in an autralian cave |
| 22:23.11 | SpeedEvil | It's the middle-chimney wall of a small cottage. |
| 22:23.22 | SpeedEvil | It used to have fireplaces on both sides. |
| 22:23.42 | Elrond | Ahh |
| 22:23.56 | SpeedEvil | I think it's from the 1600s, the original shell. |
| 22:24.30 | SpeedEvil | Left to ruin around 1940, then refurbished then, 1960, and 1980. |
| 22:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko MeTa (n=sajt@53d830b3.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 22:27.03 | SpeedEvil | There is something wierd going halfway up the neck. |
| 22:27.05 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:27.33 | cjb | SpeedEvil: I hear it's known as "the head". |
| 22:28.32 | *** join/#openmoko lucas2 (n=lucas@lucas.demon.nl) |
| 22:28.37 | SpeedEvil | Err - no. It was a question in another channel. |
| 22:29.04 | peepsalot | is there another OM or Neo channel? |
| 22:29.12 | woglinde | no? |
| 22:29.59 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 22:31.54 | mjr | well yes, #openmoko-fi with 3 finns in it ;) |
| 22:32.02 | woglinde | lol |
| 22:33.18 | Elrond | #openmoko-de is empty ;o) |
| 22:33.45 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:50.57 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: does anyone know if FIC is going to make the neo1973 available as OEM modules? |
| 22:51.08 | SpeedEvil | I don't know. |
| 22:51.17 | SpeedEvil | Practically speaking. |
| 22:51.21 | SpeedEvil | the case costs nothing. |
| 22:51.41 | SpeedEvil | If you want the device to build into a new box, you may as well just buy one. |
| 22:51.45 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, but the case is not acceptable for our needs |
| 22:51.57 | SpeedEvil | Rip it off and start again. |
| 22:52.03 | SpeedEvil | It's only a couple of torx screws. |
| 22:52.17 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea well, be difficult to do with 2500-3000 at a time |
| 22:52.43 | SpeedEvil | Not really, but if you're talking that sort of volume, ask a question on the mailing list. |
| 22:52.54 | SpeedEvil | They might well be interested. |
| 22:53.02 | parag0n | if you're buying that many, i'm sure they would |
| 22:53.22 | SpeedEvil | Would you just be wanting the board, or the board + LCD? |
| 22:53.45 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: probably board+lcd |
| 22:53.49 | SpeedEvil | It should be possible to change the LCD a bit, within reason. |
| 22:53.54 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea |
| 22:53.59 | SpeedEvil | All you'd need is another cable. |
| 22:54.14 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: the lcd is small than what we normally use |
| 22:54.34 | SpeedEvil | It's a shame that generic small USB screens are not available. |
| 22:54.54 | Lumpio- | An USB screen... |
| 22:55.01 | Lumpio- | That would really be really handy at times :\ |
| 22:55.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: most of the newer tft's come with SPI support |
| 22:55.30 | Lumpio- | ...or well |
| 22:55.48 | SpeedEvil | True - occasionally it'd be nice to get a nice little canned 'case badge' sized LCD/OLED, with a USB cable on it though. |
| 22:55.59 | CoreDump|home | wow |
| 22:56.05 | CoreDump|home | USB screen hmmmm |
| 22:56.06 | Lumpio- | What about a small portable VGA screen |
| 22:56.13 | Lumpio- | For fixing headless servers that have totally borked |
| 22:56.20 | Lumpio- | Without having to lug a whole monitor around |
| 22:56.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: about what size? |
| 22:56.22 | SpeedEvil | I was more meaning 1 or 1.5". |
| 22:56.27 | Lumpio- | :P |
| 22:56.33 | Lumpio- | Wait, 1.5"? o_O |
| 22:56.35 | Lumpio- | What would you use that for |
| 22:56.38 | SpeedEvil | Just basically a replacement for 2*10 line char displays. |
| 22:56.43 | Lumpio- | Ah |
| 22:56.44 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh |
| 22:56.53 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: that darn easy to do |
| 22:56.55 | Lumpio- | Well I was thinking slightly larger, not a full-size monitor though |
| 22:57.11 | SpeedEvil | It's easy to do. It's not especially cheap to do in ones. |
| 22:57.39 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: qualify cheap |
| 22:58.07 | SpeedEvil | As cheap as the MP3 players with the same size of OLED would be nice. |
| 22:58.11 | prpplague | actually that should be quantify |
| 22:58.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: you could do a 128x128 color display with a usb interface for about $35.00 |
| 22:58.54 | SpeedEvil | At the moment I'm looking for a couple of 'guages' for my car. |
| 22:59.02 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh |
| 22:59.19 | SpeedEvil | There isn't really a good solution for this, yes you can get nice 2.5" composite monitors. |
| 22:59.26 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: i assume you've seen the ones on sparkfun |
| 22:59.34 | SpeedEvil | Driving multiple composite monitors isn't easy from laptops. |
| 22:59.35 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 22:59.50 | SpeedEvil | Then there is the whole issue of writing the driver. |
| 23:00.15 | SpeedEvil | In the end I gave up, and compromised on a large 4*20 alphanumeric screen. |
| 23:00.20 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe, thought about grabbing some juiceboxes? |
| 23:01.09 | prpplague | i think overstock.com still has a ton |
| 23:01.53 | prpplague | yea looks like they still have a bunch |
| 23:02.20 | SpeedEvil | I only see a strokes single. |
| 23:02.40 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ? |
| 23:02.54 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: http://www.overstock.com/cgi-bin/d2.cgi?PAGE=PROFRAME&PROD_ID=2192839 |
| 23:03.04 | SpeedEvil | Ah - space in the middle. |
| 23:03.14 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 23:03.46 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/JuiceBox |
| 23:04.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: uses the s3c44b0x , the s3c2410's little arm7tdmi cousin |
| 23:05.58 | SpeedEvil | No interfaces though. I'd need it to somehow talk to a laptop. |
| 23:06.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: its got rs-232 and lots of gpio |
| 23:06.23 | SpeedEvil | I diddn't see the GPIO. |
| 23:06.41 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: not directly listed, but all the pins are available on the board |
| 23:06.55 | SpeedEvil | Anyway. I can hack one together. I was just bemoaning that they are not actually available as a commodity product. |
| 23:07.04 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea |
| 23:07.24 | SpeedEvil | As if I decide I want another one later, I'm then faced with trying to source the same hardware again, and going through an annoying process. |
| 23:07.31 | SpeedEvil | Rather than simply buying one. |
| 23:07.57 | prpplague | yea, seems like crystalfontz has some, but they are really expensive |
| 23:08.36 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: http://www.crystalfontz.com/products/index-usb.html |
| 23:08.44 | SpeedEvil | One key from the 'Optimus' 3-key keyboard would almost be reasonable at that price. |
| 23:08.48 | SpeedEvil | at a third of sticker. |
| 23:09.38 | SpeedEvil | In the end the one I got had RS232 + VT100, 1cm high chars, for not much on ebay. |
| 23:09.51 | SpeedEvil | Anyeay, I'd better stop wibbling off-topic. |
| 23:10.00 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, sorry |
| 23:11.19 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - We're also here for OT fun. :) |
| 23:11.30 | CoreDump|home | indeed |
| 23:11.34 | SpeedEvil | But people do read the backscroll. |
| 23:11.44 | SpeedEvil | For actual neo-related information. |
| 23:12.31 | Elrond | So we should include big markers? "**** OT start ****" and "**** OT end ****"? ;o) |
| 23:13.26 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 23:14.12 | Elrond | Or some stop logging, we want to talk private command to the logging bots ;) |
| 23:15.31 | Elrond | like on enterprise "computer, stop eavesdroping, this is private" ;) |
| 23:15.39 | CoreDump|home | rwhitby: :\ |
| 23:15.52 | rwhitby | so maybe this arvo, or tomorrow morning at latest. |
| 23:15.53 | CoreDump|home | I'll get mine tomorrow =) |
| 23:16.37 | Elrond | Hey, don't complain. You get one for free, you'll be able to wait another few hours. |
| 23:19.29 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
| 23:19.59 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - They'd go up, quite well. ;) |
| 23:21.28 | parag0n | wait, so they have 14 spare phones just sat around? |
| 23:21.56 | CoreDump|home | indeed they have =) |
| 23:22.13 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 23:22.23 | SpeedEvil | There were 14 insane people chosen to be devs. |
| 23:22.23 | CoreDump|home | I imaging LaF0rge is flooded w/ emails about these 14 devices =) |
| 23:25.24 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 23:25.34 | Elrond | Wont be long until they're on ebay. ;) |
| 23:26.45 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.102.170) |
| 23:28.00 | woglinde | speedevil *g* |
| 23:29.56 | sixfeet | hmm |
| 23:32.21 | Stephmw | you'd hope the p0's wouldn't end up on ebay until the p1's had shipped at least |
| 23:32.54 | SpeedEvil | P1 shipment is supposed to continue for some time. |
| 23:32.59 | SpeedEvil | s/./0/ |
| 23:33.02 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 23:33.06 | SpeedEvil | P0 |
| 23:33.10 | SpeedEvil | Err |
| 23:33.15 | SpeedEvil | I was right first time. |
| 23:35.04 | Elrond | Hmm. "Engeenering sample" do not need to pay customs/VAT? ;) |
| 23:36.07 | Elrond | (On koen's thing it's "enginnering sample") |
| 23:37.08 | Stephmw | usually that cost is based on the declared value... regardless of content |
| 23:38.14 | Elrond | Stephmw - I heard -- for .de -- that it also depends on wether you have a financial win by getting the thing. |
| 23:39.12 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 23:40.11 | Stephmw | Elrond: interesting - I've not come across that before, but I'm in the UK |
| 23:40.38 | SpeedEvil | Importing stuff up to 17(?) pounds value attracts no duty into the UK. |
| 23:40.52 | grgehunt | i managed to import a gps from the USA for nothing extra :D |
| 23:40.59 | grgehunt | it's pot luck if customs catch you |
| 23:41.00 | SpeedEvil | Stuff over that may get hit with 6% import duty, and then 17.5% VAT. |
| 23:41.29 | SpeedEvil | And 'samples' can be charged too. |
| 23:41.32 | SpeedEvil | It's pot luck. |
| 23:41.35 | SpeedEvil | IME. |
| 23:41.41 | grgehunt | hell i managed to post a machete home :) |
| 23:41.58 | SpeedEvil | Express shipment tends to be more likely to attract customs. DHL IIRC collect it for customs. |
| 23:42.06 | SpeedEvil | It may vary. |
| 23:42.25 | grgehunt | if it's a gift it's exempt usually |
| 23:42.38 | SpeedEvil | No, it's not. |
| 23:42.44 | SpeedEvil | Only if it's under 17 quid. |
| 23:42.48 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 23:42.53 | grgehunt | also i thought they had (in the uk) varying different duties, you can be charged upto 90% depending on what it is, IIRC |
| 23:43.49 | SpeedEvil | Any goods purchased from outside the EC are liable for duty and in some cases VAT. If you have been sent a gift and the value is under £36 you will not be liable, over that amount you will be charged depending on the product. For purchases bought by yourself with a value over £18 you may have to pay duty depending on the product; it may also be liable to VAT. Under that amount you will not be liable. |
| 23:44.09 | SpeedEvil | http://customs.hmrc.gov.uk/channelsPortalWebApp/channelsPortalWebApp.portal?_nfpb=true&_pageLabel=pageImport_FAQs&propertyType=document&columns=1&id=HMCE_PROD_008654 |
| 23:44.16 | balrog-kun | what happened to the daily builds at https://buildhost.openmoko.org/tmp/gta01/deploy/images/ ? |
| 23:44.38 | balrog-kun | they were quite useful |
| 23:44.54 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: try buildhost-old as hostname |
| 23:45.12 | parag0n | arent the european ones shipping from within the EU though? |
| 23:45.12 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: Hardware troubles and new machine |
| 23:45.27 | balrog-kun | stefan_schmidt: oh, thanks |
| 23:45.30 | stefan_schmidt | parag0n: Not P0, this should start at P1 |
| 23:45.37 | balrog-kun | this worked |
| 23:45.37 | parag0n | ah |
| 23:46.48 | Elrond | Hmm. How's duty/VAT from within the EU/EC? |
| 23:47.10 | SuN | Non-existent :) |
| 23:47.28 | balrog-kun | however this host doesn't have the 20070302010255 :p |
| 23:47.37 | balrog-kun | 20070302010255 build |
| 23:47.51 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 23:48.00 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 23:48.14 | SuN | Goods travel freely, but you do pay taxes to the country you're buying from, as if you were in the country. |
| 23:50.38 | Elrond | So, if fic is sitting in the uk, we have to pay 17.5% VAT? |
| 23:51.04 | SuN | Yep |
| 23:51.37 | grgehunt | uk seems to have one of the better rates of VAT |
| 23:51.49 | grgehunt | it's just the other taxes you have to watch out for ::) |
| 23:51.51 | SuN | It's always better than importing, though you can always end up lucky like koen. |
| 23:52.02 | SuN | It's 19% here since 2001. |
| 23:52.52 | Elrond | It's also 19% here since this year. |
| 23:53.20 | borg_ | it was 16% before 2007 in .de ;) |
| 23:53.37 | Elrond | ~change 411.25 usd to eur |
| 23:54.14 | Elrond | Hmm. + S&H... |
| 23:54.39 | grgehunt | is xe based off of the forex, or what you would get as a peon? |
| 23:55.02 | Elrond | grgehunt - I have no idea. |
| 23:56.24 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: FedEx also collect for customs |
| 23:58.04 | Elrond | *G* |
| 23:59.36 | stefan_schmidt | 3/6/2007 11:00 pm Processed for clearance Cologne, Germany |
| 23:59.49 | *** join/#openmoko mhamrick (n=mhamrick@yancy.pkiclue.com) |
