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| 00:53.16 | rwhitby | LaF0rge: great blog post. I for one am very happy to get a "fully open source Linux PDA with super-bright display" :-) It means that we (phase0 devs) have time to get comfortable with the basic hardware, before moving onto gsm and ui and apps. |
| 00:53.55 | SpeedEvil | Phase 1 does need to sort-of-work as a phone though. |
| 00:54.02 | SpeedEvil | And it's only 3 weeks ish. |
| 00:54.51 | rwhitby | Caveat emptor - as long as the state of the device is described accurately at the time when it is put up for purchase, then the purchasee can make that decision. |
| 00:55.30 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 00:55.30 | Guest_206 | Are there going to be any cell providers carrying the phone? |
| 00:55.30 | aloril | Guest_206: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 00:55.31 | SpeedEvil | It'll have a _hell_ of a lot more volume I suspect if it does. |
| 00:55.31 | SpeedEvil | Guest_206: no - it's an unlocked GSM phone. |
| 00:55.33 | SpeedEvil | Any GSM provider wil. |
| 00:55.34 | Guest_206 | okay |
| 00:55.51 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: I expect FIC/OpenMoko are looking for quality (of the people buying) rather than quantity, for the Phase1 release. |
| 00:55.54 | SpeedEvil | The eventual release one (sep) may have carriers. |
| 00:55.56 | Guest_206 | but mostly it will be sold just like an unlocked phone? |
| 00:56.02 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 00:56.09 | Guest_206 | okay, thanks |
| 00:56.16 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby 'we can make as many as you can buy' - sean of P1. |
| 00:56.27 | SpeedEvil | It's not only the devs. |
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| 00:56.44 | SpeedEvil | It's the people that think the device is cool, and can get more devs interested. |
| 00:57.10 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: absolutely, but would you rather they push the Phase1 date out to six weeks to get a dialer stable, or make it available to purchase (as a development platform, not a phone) at 4 weeks without a dialer? |
| 00:57.23 | SpeedEvil | Oh - I totally agree. |
| 00:59.48 | rwhitby | They have to carefully trade off the possibility of a stupid but influential bad reviewer getting a phase1 phone that was released too early, versus the community disappointment if phase1 is delayed for good reasons. |
| 01:00.50 | peepsalot | you guys think the processor is powerful enough for speech recognition? |
| 01:00.50 | aloril | peepsalot: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 01:01.18 | kmeyer | define 'recognition' :P |
| 01:02.36 | peepsalot | well, at the very least to be able to tell when the user says something from a predefined list of words(commands) |
| 01:02.53 | peepsalot | or saying digits |
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| 01:06.31 | peepsalot | For example to say "DIAL 555-1234". then you can replace the dialer app ;-) |
| 01:06.57 | kmeyer | sans the dash probabyl |
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| 01:07.23 | peepsalot | lol, yeah i wouldn't pronounce the dash |
| 01:09.21 | peepsalot | it could display what it heard on the screen, and wait for you to say (CONFIRM|GO|YES|AFFIRMATIVE) or (CANCEL|NO|WRONG|#$%@$) |
| 01:10.05 | peepsalot | maybe not GO and NO though, too similar |
| 01:10.24 | Sargun | ? |
| 01:10.58 | peepsalot | ! |
| 01:11.44 | Sargun | hi? |
| 01:12.04 | Sargun | why doesn't the stupid bot give me the FAQs. |
| 01:12.38 | peepsalot | it only does it once per nickname |
| 01:12.49 | peepsalot | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
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| 01:15.21 | kmeyer | how about an autorespond to something like "faq?" |
| 01:15.31 | peepsalot | !faq |
| 01:15.37 | peepsalot | dunno |
| 01:17.17 | kmeyer | I meant more like |
| 01:17.31 | kmeyer | /faq.*\?/ |
| 01:20.10 | peepsalot | FAQin' good idea |
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| 01:24.52 | parag0n | faq?? |
| 01:24.55 | parag0n | faq??? |
| 01:26.01 | kmeyer | hehh |
| 01:26.27 | parag0n | could have sworn someone said they were adding that |
| 01:26.38 | kmeyer | I said it'd be a good idea |
| 01:26.39 | parag0n | alas, twas the fevered dream of a madman |
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| 01:31.35 | rwhitby | cjb: have you look at the devirginator? |
| 01:31.43 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Devirginator |
| 01:31.51 | rwhitby | Looks like that is what you should use for your device. |
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| 01:56.55 | darmou | One would hope that seeing is how here is already an arm port of mono (I am using it on my zaurus) that this http://projects.openmoko.org/projects/dotnet/ would not take too long to release some software |
| 02:00.25 | DesktopMa | should be a breeze |
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| 02:52.41 | empty_mind | how long does it takes for a project to be approved or rejected in openmoko ? |
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| 02:54.43 | loufoque | empty_mind: five seconds |
| 02:55.22 | loufoque | but you'll have to wait until someone actually reads your request |
| 02:57.30 | jipi | hi folks, i would like to get a developer's box. when? and how? |
| 02:58.26 | peepsalot | counter |
| 02:58.26 | aloril | P0: 16:30:47 (0.688 +-0.7 days); P1: 32.376 +-10.0 (see faq) (465) |
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| 03:37.25 | paulproteus | Anyone know if it'll be possible to use the phone to record conversations? |
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| 03:46.28 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1244 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-footer/src/ (callbacks.c footer.h main.c): use DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM bus connection instead of DBUS_BUS_SESSION |
| 03:47.26 | LoDown | is it really only about a month till phase 1? |
| 03:47.28 | LoDown | dang! |
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| 03:50.13 | jipi | what is the number of developer units that will be made? |
| 03:50.23 | jipi | I hope I can get a few. |
| 03:50.47 | LoDown | jipi: i think those have already been assigned |
| 03:51.10 | jipi | LoDown: if that is the case, can we request now? |
| 03:51.25 | LoDown | jipi: unknown...you best bet is Phase 1 |
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| 03:53.24 | jipi | LoDown: Phase 1 is end March? if it is then it's ok. But if it's September then it's a long wait. |
| 03:53.32 | LoDown | counter |
| 03:53.33 | aloril | P0: 16:03:13 (0.669 +-0.7 days); P1: 32.338 +-10.0 (see faq) (466) |
| 03:53.40 | jipi | counter |
| 03:53.41 | aloril | P0: 16:03:09 (0.669 +-0.7 days); P1: 32.338 +-10.0 (see faq) (467) |
| 03:53.54 | LoDown | looks like 32 days puls minus 10 |
| 03:54.16 | jipi | LoDown: i get it now. thanks. |
| 03:55.11 | jipi | LoDown: another question, how do we get it? shipping charges? online? what type of payment methods etc.? |
| 03:55.31 | LoDown | jipi: i don't think that has been announced... |
| 03:55.40 | LoDown | i'm sure more info will be put out closer to ship date |
| 03:56.14 | LoDown | most likely it will be online from FIC's website |
| 03:56.35 | jipi | LoDown: ok. I just hope I don't miss it. (e.g. out of stock or sosmething..) |
| 03:56.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1245 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/ (callbacks.c dbus-conn.c mainmenu.c mainmenu.h mokoiconview.h): Use DBUS_BUS_SYSTEM bus connection instead of DBUS_BUS_SESSION |
| 03:56.50 | jipi | Thanks for the valuable info. |
| 03:56.54 | loufoque | paulproteus: why couldn't you do it? |
| 03:57.00 | LoDown | ::grin:: just keep up with the Wiki |
| 03:57.06 | LoDown | jipi: no problem |
| 03:57.07 | loufoque | paulproteus: you just need to write the software for it |
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| 03:59.56 | peepsalot | It would be really cool if all conversations were auto-saved to ram, and at the end you have the option of storing the previous conversation to flash. |
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| 04:22.45 | aloril | Sargun: it does give it if you say just "faq?" ;-) |
| 04:22.58 | Sargun | faq |
| 04:22.58 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 04:23.02 | Sargun | wowowow! |
| 04:23.12 | Sargun | haha |
| 04:36.45 | aloril | cool: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Manually_using_GSM |
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| 05:22.03 | jipi | counter |
| 05:22.03 | aloril | P0: 15:18:58 (0.638 +-0.6 days); P1: 32.276 +-10.0 (see faq) (468) |
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| 05:22.50 | kmeyer | counter |
| 05:22.50 | aloril | P0: 15:18:35 (0.638 +-0.6 days); P1: 32.276 +-10.0 (see faq) (469) |
| 05:22.51 | kmeyer | strike! |
| 05:22.53 | kmeyer | lol |
| 05:23.59 | noidd | 'lo |
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| 07:00.51 | Readon | "The topmost patch u-boot-20061030-qt2410-gta01.patch needs to be refreshed first." reported when openmoko building |
| 07:05.41 | Readon | i manually applied the patch, but how to continue? |
| 07:07.51 | rwhitby | Readon: are you using the MokoMakefile? |
| 07:08.29 | Readon | rwhitby, yes |
| 07:08.54 | Readon | i followed the instruction on openmoko website |
| 07:09.16 | Readon | patching file board/qt2410/u-boot.lds |
| 07:09.17 | Readon | patching file common/Makefile |
| 07:09.17 | Readon | Hunk #1 FAILED at 28. |
| 07:09.17 | Readon | 1 out of 1 hunk FAILED -- saving rejects to file common/Makefile.rej |
| 07:09.21 | rwhitby | uboot built fine for me this morning. I'll try it again now |
| 07:10.04 | Readon | NOTE: Applying patch 'u-boot-20061030-qt2410-gta01.patch' |
| 07:10.05 | Readon | Command Error: exit status: 1 Output: |
| 07:10.05 | Readon | Applying patch u-boot-20061030-qt2410-gta01.patch |
| 07:10.05 | Readon | patching file Makefile |
| 07:10.05 | Readon | Hunk #1 succeeded at 1934 (offset 21 lines). |
| 07:10.25 | Readon | two errors were returned |
| 07:10.48 | rwhitby | Readon: best to pastebin a full log, rather than pasting bits of it into the channel ... |
| 07:11.05 | rwhitby | NOTE: package uboot-gta01-1.2.0+svn20070302-r2: task do_patch: completed |
| 07:11.10 | rwhitby | no problems patching here. |
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| 07:12.30 | Readon | http://rafb.net/p/an8IsM62.html |
| 07:13.31 | rwhitby | uboot-gta01-0.0+cvs20061030 tells me you're not using latest MokoMakefile |
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| 07:14.24 | rwhitby | Readon: can you pastebin from the start, i.e. when you type "make" or "bitbake" ? |
| 07:15.18 | rwhitby | (including where you type "make update" to make sure you had the latest patches) |
| 07:16.07 | Readon | it's the first time i make it |
| 07:16.47 | rwhitby | ok, pastebin from "make setup" onwards then |
| 07:16.51 | Readon | i use bitbake openmoko-dev |
| 07:16.58 | Readon | i use bitbake openmoko-dev-image |
| 07:17.09 | rwhitby | are you using MokoMakefile or not? |
| 07:17.21 | Readon | i did not use "make setup" |
| 07:17.24 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
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| 07:17.33 | rwhitby | sep 4 is make setup |
| 07:17.35 | Readon | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 |
| 07:17.36 | rwhitby | s/sep/step/ |
| 07:17.44 | Readon | i made this |
| 07:17.50 | rwhitby | Readon: try the other then. |
| 07:17.56 | Readon | followed this |
| 07:18.37 | CM | rwhitby: Maybe add some more make targets to that wiki page? I mean update and makefile-update and so? |
| 07:18.47 | rwhitby | CM: please do so :-) |
| 07:18.48 | CM | I can do it, but I'm not sure exactly what to do when |
| 07:18.59 | rwhitby | Readon: why did you follow that page? |
| 07:19.03 | CM | Ok, I'll add then ask if it's ok :) |
| 07:19.58 | rwhitby | CM: much better - I find it easier to fine tune other's documentation contributions that to find the time to do it myself :-) |
| 07:20.29 | CM | NP, I had thought about adding this last friday, but got stuck at some "after work" ;) |
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| 07:21.42 | Readon | i think it is official stuff for building |
| 07:23.08 | rwhitby | Readon: the page you referenced is official, but out of date and does not build. I would recommend using the MokoMakefile, which still builds the official way, but works too. |
| 07:23.37 | Readon | anyone have ideas that how to continue when i modified patches manually? |
| 07:23.42 | rwhitby | (but I'm biased, cause I wrote it) |
| 07:23.54 | rwhitby | did you use quilt? |
| 07:24.04 | Readon | rwhitby, my network is very poor i can't restart it. |
| 07:24.30 | rwhitby | Readon: sorry, I can't help you then, and I expect that no-one else here is building that old way either. |
| 07:24.33 | Readon | yes, it asked for it |
| 07:25.32 | Readon | why not remove the link from the mainpage? |
| 07:25.57 | rwhitby | the one that is after the MokoMakefile link? |
| 07:26.22 | Readon | yes, |
| 07:26.53 | rwhitby | well that link was put there by a core developer, so I prefer to let them decide whether to remove it or not. |
| 07:26.59 | Readon | it cost me 2 days, and i don't want to restart it |
| 07:27.22 | rwhitby | you can reuse the OE.mtn file, and the svn checkout (you'll need to svn update that to the latest version) and your sources directory. |
| 07:27.50 | rwhitby | read the MokoMakefile, put those things in the right places, and you should have a much smaller network download. |
| 07:28.17 | Readon | do you mean that i can continue and only remove build dir? |
| 07:28.19 | rwhitby | (and you can report in the bugzilla that the link you followed doesn't work, and ask the core developers to remove the link) |
| 07:29.40 | Readon | ok |
| 07:29.43 | rwhitby | Readon: yes, if you get everything in the right place for the MokoMakefile (I think it should all be in the right place anyway if you have followed the manual instructions) |
| 07:30.42 | rwhitby | Readon: perhaps (if the MokoMakefile works better for you) add a note to the page which doesn't work, advising others that it didn't work for you but the MokoMakefile did ... |
| 07:33.06 | CM | rwhitby: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 07:33.35 | Readon | i will try it first |
| 07:34.24 | CM | rwhitby: It's now recommended by 3 out of 3 new devs ;) |
| 07:40.10 | Readon | the same errors reported. |
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| 07:45.59 | rwhitby | CM: thx |
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| 07:55.01 | aloril | 4GB is open question: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=93 |
| 07:59.32 | rwhitby | (CM - the change was to run update-makefile first, in case the "update" target has changed, in which case you want it to run the latest one. |
| 07:59.56 | rwhitby | Readon: I doubt that you got the same errors using the MokoMakefile. |
| 08:00.16 | rwhitby | please pastebin the full log to show if that is the case, including where you run "make update" |
| 08:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko dullard (n=jim@adsl-static-1-30.uklinux.net) |
| 08:02.39 | Readon | make update |
| 08:02.40 | Readon | ( cd bitbake ; svn update ) |
| 08:02.40 | Readon | At revision 786. |
| 08:02.40 | Readon | ( cd patches ; svn update ) |
| 08:02.40 | Readon | svn: '.' is not a working copy |
| 08:02.40 | Readon | make: *** [update-patches] Error 1 |
| 08:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 08:03.32 | rwhitby | Readon: you will need to move away the patches dir, so the MokoMakefile can get the latest from svn |
| 08:03.55 | rwhitby | (BTW, that wasn't "the same errors" reported) |
| 08:04.03 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 08:04.34 | CM | rwhitby: I noticed that, thanks. :) |
| 08:05.03 | Readon | i will rebuild it totally |
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| 08:39.33 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1246 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/src/mokoiconview.c: change item activated function: item, which has been selected, will be activated |
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| 09:05.52 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56) |
| 09:08.05 | rwhitby | maybe even add an OE recipe for it ... |
| 09:10.33 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-debian (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 09:12.05 | koen | e |
| 09:12.08 | koen | nope |
| 09:13.15 | rwhitby | they have five hours left in my day to ship it on the 5th :-) |
| 09:13.28 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_alt (n=m@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 09:13.53 | koen | I hope it arrives before friday 08:26 |
| 09:14.43 | aloril | counter |
| 09:14.43 | aloril | P0: 13:22:38 (0.557 +-0.6 days); P1: 32.115 +-10.0 (see faq) (470) |
| 09:15.27 | rwhitby | I just need mine by the 19th, cause I have a local linux user group talk scheduled for then |
| 09:16.11 | aloril | hmm.. its 18:16 at Taiwan now I think? |
| 09:18.34 | buz | 17:18 |
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| 09:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko nslu2-log (i=slug@nslu2-linux/dyoung) |
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| 09:46.53 | hrw | morning |
| 09:49.47 | XorA | heh heh, its like a nest of ants in here, that people keep poking a stick in |
| 09:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 09:57.21 | koen | aloril: 7 |
| 09:57.27 | SpeedEvil | It should come in a locked box that they have to call in, and get someone to explain in detail the features of the phone as it now and will be, before they get the combination. |
| 09:58.34 | disq | koen: 42 |
| 09:59.21 | koen | aloril: maybe openmoko should go the trolltech way |
| 09:59.35 | koen | display a "this is not a phone, but a development device" at every boot |
| 10:00.40 | aevin | it could help. |
| 10:01.08 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-10-98.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:02.24 | buz | you mean reviewers read output? |
| 10:02.25 | buz | i doubt it |
| 10:02.26 | XorA | koen: and get you to hit the "select" key? |
| 10:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw[Zzzzz] (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 10:03.04 | aevin | i guess as aloril said, there's a potential that people will think the P1 phone reviews are relevant for the P2 september edition and hence be not interested. |
| 10:03.46 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@203-206-59-67.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
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| 10:04.44 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-10-98.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:05.02 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1247 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/ (9 files in 2 dirs): |
| 10:05.02 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Add realsize mode. At this mode, the sizes and locations of each keys |
| 10:05.02 | CIA-7 | openmoko: are geting from the config file. |
| 10:05.30 | aevin | at least if both phones will be named Neo1973, but with different revisions. articles (and hence people) tend to ignore revisions and other small print details to stupidify the content adequately. |
| 10:05.55 | *** join/#openmoko etf|work (n=etf|work@proxy.salfordsoftware.co.uk) |
| 10:05.58 | SpeedEvil | I've been doing 'login and comment' on all the misinformed articles I find. |
| 10:06.01 | aevin | we'll see. |
| 10:06.09 | SpeedEvil | How many people actually read the comments though... |
| 10:06.20 | aloril | detect when "clueless reviewer" is ordering P1 phone and supply alternate case with big "development version" text prominently in case ;-) |
| 10:06.34 | aevin | SpeedEvil: have you found many of such articles? |
| 10:06.45 | SpeedEvil | There are assorted ones. |
| 10:07.08 | SpeedEvil | $250 for release phone, RAM expandable to 4096M, ... |
| 10:07.12 | aevin | aloril: perhaps FIC could supply some huge sticker on the box for every P1 shipment. |
| 10:07.34 | aevin | lol. 4 GiB RAM sounds nice! |
| 10:07.43 | aloril | aevin: yeah, got same idea... maybe even put it to case directly as long as you can remove it easily without trace |
| 10:08.25 | aloril | that way "clueless reviewer might leave it on" even and reader can see from pictures it ;-) |
| 10:08.54 | aevin | true. |
| 10:09.31 | aevin | /yeah. |
| 10:09.37 | SpeedEvil | A slide show whenever you turn on a P1 phone - 'This is not a device for end users' 'It is a development platform that sort-of-works as a basic phone'... |
| 10:09.56 | buz | yeah splash with handwritten THIS IS A DEVELOPMENT DEVICE |
| 10:10.04 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r40 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (dfu-util-native.patch series): Removed dfu-util patch, as it was incorrect. |
| 10:10.15 | buz | IF YOU REVIEW IT AS FINAL PHONE, GOD WILL KILL A KITTEN |
| 10:11.06 | aevin | or perhaps rename the P1 phone to something like "Neo1973 preview edition" or something to avoid using the same name as the final (assuming Neo1973 is the final marketing name, which i don't have any reason not to think it will be) |
| 10:12.03 | aevin | buz: yes :) |
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| 10:16.44 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 10:16.58 | CM | Why not call it Neo1876 - "Mr. Watson, come here, I want to see you." ;) |
| 10:19.05 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2EB67.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:19.31 | TRIsoft | morning :-) |
| 10:20.20 | *** join/#openmoko sjoerd (n=sjoerd@tunnel3460.ipv6.xs4all.nl) |
| 10:20.32 | hrw | hi Mac |
| 10:20.40 | rwhitby | well, all the phase0 devs have the opportunity to implement such a reviewer chastity belt ... |
| 10:20.50 | aloril | hmm.. even treating it as beta version would be wrong, its long time before software will be in beta |
| 10:21.34 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - speaking tubes hit in 1800 or so. |
| 10:21.40 | TRIsoft | so the phase0 phones are shipped ? |
| 10:21.53 | SpeedEvil | perhaps. |
| 10:21.57 | koen | TRIsoft: not according to my mailbox |
| 10:21.57 | SpeedEvil | No reports thought. |
| 10:22.18 | TRIsoft | Just read the planet entry from Harald... |
| 10:22.27 | SpeedEvil | I suppose a semaphore is a clear ancestor to SMS. |
| 10:25.37 | SpeedEvil | I wonder where you'd find a credible history of drums as communication. |
| 10:25.55 | greghunt | inthe jungle, the mighty jungle |
| 10:26.22 | rwhitby | koen: do you have dfu-util-native packaged in OE ? |
| 10:28.08 | koen | rwhitby: not that I know off |
| 10:28.13 | CoreDump|home | morning |
| 10:28.20 | koen | rwhitby: don't have hardware to test on |
| 10:28.46 | rwhitby | ok, the openmoko dfu-util-native recipe is broken. see http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=226 |
| 10:29.09 | rwhitby | I need to work out how to force a static build as LaF0rge describes. |
| 10:29.26 | rwhitby | (as the current recipe doesn't do it, and I want to have devirginator packaged before the device arrives) |
| 10:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 10:29.54 | rwhitby | (devirginator depends on openocd and dfu-util-native) |
| 10:30.11 | koen | rwhitby: and my OE buildbox is in a lab and my preferred 'flashing' device runs osx, so even with the neo, I couldn't test it |
| 10:31.01 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 10:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 10:31.51 | koen | rwhitby: feel free to add it all to OE |
| 10:43.14 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r41 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (dfu-util-native.patch series): Added a new dfu-util patch, which correctly builds dfu-util staticly linked. Thanks to zecke for the tip. |
| 10:44.37 | zecke | rwhitby: :) |
| 10:44.41 | koen | and of course we don't add it to OE to make koen's merging job harder...... |
| 10:44.50 | hrw | sure |
| 10:45.16 | rwhitby | koen: nice attitude. keep it to yourself please. |
| 10:49.09 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@p57AEC17E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:51.32 | rwhitby | dfu-utils patch reported upstream at http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=226 |
| 10:51.54 | rwhitby | (upstream == openmoko core devs in this instance) |
| 10:52.04 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:53.20 | rwhitby | Looks like openocd will need the same treatment, looking at the files that devirginator downloaded from http://buildhost-old.openmoko.org/snapshots/gta01-20070301/tmp/deploy/images/ |
| 10:58.48 | aloril | ETel report (2 images): http://www.uberpulse.com/us/2007/03/fic_wants_to_rewrite_the_rules_with_open_moko_mobile_phone.php |
| 11:01.35 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@125-237-75-243.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 11:05.31 | Stephmw | I'm fascinated by that name... wonder who thought it up |
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| 11:26.43 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r42 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (openocd.patch series): Patch to fix building of openocd-native, and to deploy the native build instead of the cross build (cause devirginator needs the native build). |
| 11:30.15 | rwhitby | reported as http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=235 |
| 11:37.52 | rwhitby | cjb: ping - what other tools have you needed to use in your first few days with the device? |
| 11:38.52 | wildfire | 'devirginator' - why isn't is called 'deflowerer' then? |
| 11:38.52 | aloril | wildfire: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:40.29 | dspstv | newbee question here: will it be possible with phase 1 devices to read the GPSA data via a say an NMEA protocol? or what kinda of protocol will the openmoko will be using? |
| 11:40.29 | aloril | dspstv: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:40.48 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 11:44.19 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 11:45.58 | SpeedEvil | briefly - yes. |
| 11:48.26 | aloril | seems that no page contains term NMEA at wiki.openmoko.org (or I'm doing something wrong with search) |
| 11:50.02 | SpeedEvil | The phone will have a plugin for the hardware, for the open-source gpsd |
| 11:50.07 | dspstv | so, to clear it, the gpsa will be working in phase 1 and developer will have access to read the data via protocols like NMEA |
| 11:50.19 | dspstv | ok |
| 11:50.47 | SpeedEvil | http://gpsd.berlios.de/xgps.html |
| 11:50.48 | aloril | hmm.. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko#GPS indirectly tells it |
| 11:50.59 | dspstv | cool, now i need to find out where to put place my order, and that not to visible in the wiki |
| 11:51.11 | aloril | dspstv: no place yet |
| 11:51.14 | SpeedEvil | Yes, it'll be working in phase 1. |
| 11:51.33 | SpeedEvil | The 'Buying Interest List' is _not_ official. |
| 11:51.45 | dspstv | i understand that |
| 11:52.15 | SpeedEvil | Maybe a _little_ hype in that last news article - 'This phone is like God in your pocket, it follows you everywhere. ' |
| 11:53.07 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if it's a jealous god? |
| 11:54.41 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 11:55.20 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 11:55.29 | SpeedEvil | GPSd supports many output methods. |
| 11:56.05 | aloril | SpeedEvil: OK, maybe it should still be mentioned here one way? http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=OpenMoko&action=edit§ion=23 |
| 11:59.54 | SpeedEvil | I'll read up on gpsd, and add the details. |
| 12:03.01 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@m26.net81-64-228.noos.fr) |
| 12:04.04 | aloril | hmm.. [[Hardware:AGPS]] is related page for [[OpenMoko#GPS]] too, but not same thing: former is about specific hardware while later is about software |
| 12:08.54 | *** join/#openmoko ministry (n=ministry@ns.bitdefender.com) |
| 12:11.00 | SpeedEvil | They are right. |
| 12:11.59 | aloril | blog about delay: http://blog.matthewgast.com/2007/03/03/good-luck-openmoko/ |
| 12:12.11 | aloril | (nothing new there) |
| 12:13.44 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__ (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-8523b1b3e938eb24) |
| 12:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko derka (n=derka@pla93-4-88-166-213-37.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 12:14.44 | derka | Hello Folks |
| 12:15.15 | aloril | hi derka |
| 12:15.21 | SpeedEvil | Most of the stuff seems still to refer to agpsd - which is wrong. |
| 12:15.26 | SpeedEvil | Welcome! |
| 12:15.38 | derka | Thanks folks |
| 12:15.41 | derka | i got a dumb question :) |
| 12:16.03 | SpeedEvil | Shoot. |
| 12:16.04 | xkr47 | who hasn't :) |
| 12:16.10 | xkr47 | we collect them ;) |
| 12:16.13 | derka | will openmoko neo1973 provide wifi ? |
| 12:16.13 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. Also some model later this year probably will include WiFi. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 12:16.39 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56) |
| 12:16.40 | xkr47 | aloril, it should prefix with nick |
| 12:16.41 | derka | :) |
| 12:17.29 | CoreDump|afk | aloril: I wonder if you could send these lengthy messages in /msg? |
| 12:18.15 | aloril | CoreDump|afk: or I could just leave link to faq |
| 12:19.06 | CoreDump|afk | right |
| 12:21.21 | derka | toobad for wifi :-( |
| 12:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 12:23.31 | aloril | derka: v2 next year most likely will include wifi and P1+ this summer *might* have wifi (they will try to get wifi to it, but no guarantee of success) |
| 12:25.32 | derka | ok |
| 12:25.42 | derka | who are you aloril |
| 12:28.59 | *** join/#openmoko _buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:29.02 | aevin | CoreDump|afk: if aloril sends them as /msg, then the channel won't know if question has been answered (if the script triggered or not). |
| 12:29.05 | aloril | derka: no official relation, just lurker developer |
| 12:30.34 | Fletch | is it possbile to buy a dev version in june or juli? or will dev version sales stop some time after sell start? |
| 12:30.50 | SpeedEvil | Dev sales continue |
| 12:30.58 | Fletch | k |
| 12:30.58 | SpeedEvil | the devices may change as dev goes on |
| 12:31.19 | SpeedEvil | software continues being developed till and through masss market release in Sep. |
| 12:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-216-248.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 12:35.26 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=adutko@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net) |
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| 12:39.05 | noidd | mornin |
| 12:42.11 | aloril | hi noidd |
| 12:43.15 | noidd | hows it going man? |
| 12:43.47 | SpeedEvil | Is the wiki very slow? |
| 12:44.20 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:44.56 | noidd | lemme lookie here |
| 12:45.11 | noidd | fast here |
| 12:48.10 | SpeedEvil | Odd. |
| 12:48.28 | SpeedEvil | Occasionally horribly slow. |
| 12:48.49 | noidd | It was on day 1 for me but I'll forgive that :-) |
| 12:49.07 | noidd | I'm just excited about the whole project |
| 12:49.15 | noidd | and patiently waiting for the fixes |
| 12:49.17 | aloril | SpeedEvil: good comment at http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/03/openmoko-details-pricing-availability-for-neo1973/ |
| 12:49.56 | SpeedEvil | Was that the double post? |
| 12:50.10 | SpeedEvil | Silly system posted it, then emailed me saying I had to confirm. |
| 12:50.15 | aloril | yeah, its double here too |
| 12:50.22 | SpeedEvil | I confirmed, and it posted it again. |
| 12:50.28 | aloril | hehe |
| 12:51.41 | noidd | btw, did you see that microsoft have patented two-tone colouring on mobile electronic devices |
| 12:51.45 | noidd | I shit you not. |
| 12:53.12 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 12:53.31 | TRIsoft | noidd: Source ? |
| 12:53.36 | noidd | sec |
| 12:53.58 | noidd | I'll find it for you now, one sec |
| 12:54.16 | TRIsoft | noidd: Thanks.... one more thing to investigate :-( |
| 12:54.35 | noidd | http://www.engadget.com/2007/03/04/zune-watch-out-apple-patented-doubleshot/ |
| 12:54.41 | noidd | it may not be the same thing |
| 12:54.47 | noidd | but it may be, I don't know |
| 12:54.56 | noidd | it rang alarmbells in my head when I read the summary |
| 12:55.26 | koen|lab | SpeedEvil: your errata are almost bigger as the original post :) |
| 12:55.43 | TRIsoft | noidd: Hmmm. Unbelieveable. |
| 12:58.10 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (i=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 13:00.45 | _buz | these moko means snot in spanish posts are kinda superflous |
| 13:01.01 | noidd | and redundant |
| 13:01.02 | _buz | the spanish are used to weird product names, just think of the pajero SUV |
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| 13:07.23 | aevin | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS#Q:_Is_an_open-source_GPS_daemon_able_to_be_distributed_by_FIC.3F wow, what a bunch of silly problems we'll have to solve, all thanks to the U.S. of A. |
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| 13:10.15 | SpeedEvil | aevin: :( |
| 13:10.23 | SpeedEvil | It's not actually a horrible problem. |
| 13:10.43 | SpeedEvil | All it means is that FIC may not be able to distribute a fully open source GPS daemon. |
| 13:10.53 | SpeedEvil | (depending on legal advice). |
| 13:11.02 | SpeedEvil | It does not mean that users can't install one. |
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| 13:20.17 | aloril | here are questions I'm looking answer to once P0 arrives (I'm not one of recipients): microSD speed (depends on card though, but there do exists reasonably fast 1GB cards (SanDisk ultra II for example)) |
| 13:20.36 | aevin | SpeedEvil: i know, but it's sad if it's gonna be like most GNU/Linux distros and patentable media codecs, only a hassle for the new inexperienced users. |
| 13:21.01 | aloril | 2) touch screen feel/etc.. (raw dump of it would be nice... but probably not likely) |
| 13:21.19 | aloril | 3) closeup of screen |
| 13:21.29 | SpeedEvil | Why? It's a screen? |
| 13:21.47 | SpeedEvil | It's a touchscreen. They are all pretty much alike, apart from DPI andbrightness. |
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| 13:23.24 | aloril | SpeedEvil: I meant raw dump of from s3c2410-ts device |
| 13:23.32 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 13:23.39 | aloril | as you move finger, stylus, etc.. |
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| 13:23.54 | SpeedEvil | You mean noise, ... 'in practice' ? |
| 13:24.00 | aevin | aloril: you better write a wish list to the P0 devs. |
| 13:24.05 | aloril | yes, noice, etc.. |
| 13:24.43 | aloril | closeup of screen: no real reason, just one more image of it ;-) |
| 13:24.49 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 13:25.08 | aevin | how many dpi was it ? |
| 13:25.11 | aloril | curious to see actual pixels compared to traditional big LCD's ;-) |
| 13:25.19 | aloril | 280dpi vs normal 90-100dpi |
| 13:25.28 | hrw | aloril: neo screen is nice |
| 13:25.32 | SpeedEvil | They look ... Smaller! |
| 13:25.37 | aevin | ah, sounds great. |
| 13:25.55 | aevin | high definition mobile phone :) |
| 13:25.58 | aloril | hrw: I believe that, just want to see image of letter a in both neo screen and normal screen and paper compared |
| 13:26.29 | aloril | (a letter being physically same size in all mediums) |
| 13:26.30 | hrw | my 20" lcd has 98 dpi |
| 13:26.37 | xkr47 | xdpyinfo | grep dots |
| 13:27.29 | gw280 | hrw: it's exactly 100dpi, surely? |
| 13:27.40 | gw280 | hrw: 20" is 16" wide and 12" tall, and they're 1600x1200 |
| 13:27.40 | xkr47 | why would it be :) |
| 13:28.02 | hrw | gw280: 1680x1050 20" |
| 13:28.08 | gw280 | hrw: ah |
| 13:28.10 | madwoota | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T221 |
| 13:28.20 | aloril | hmm.. could compare microSD speed on card reader vs neo |
| 13:28.21 | hrw | 14:09 hrw@home:git$ xdpyinfo | grep dots resolution: 98x98 dots per inch |
| 13:28.42 | hrw | aloril: neo: slower, good card reader: faster |
| 13:28.49 | XorA | hrw: perfect for gnome then |
| 13:28.52 | hrw | aloril: enough compare? |
| 13:29.01 | hrw | XorA: why gnome? |
| 13:29.06 | pH5 | hmm. my 15" screen has 133.3dpi, but X thinks it is 96dpi... |
| 13:29.07 | aloril | anyway, about that sd speed: no sense to buy more expensive ultra II cards if it can't do that speed, if it can, then there is dilemma: get fast 1 GB or slower 2 GB ;-) |
| 13:29.12 | pH5 | 96dpi is gnome default? |
| 13:29.14 | XorA | hrw: gtk+ has many hardcodings to 96 dpi |
| 13:29.18 | aevin | on my 12" (1024x768) thinkpad: resolution: 104x108 dots per inch |
| 13:29.29 | hrw | XorA: you know what I think about gtk ;D |
| 13:29.29 | SpeedEvil | hrw: read/write speeds would be nice.. |
| 13:29.32 | aloril | hrw: yeah, but how much slower? |
| 13:29.43 | XorA | hrw: you worship the ground it deploys on :-) |
| 13:29.56 | hrw | aloril: depends how good reader/card will be used |
| 13:30.25 | xkr47 | wiki says "Smallest Visible Pixel Size for a Hand Held Device" is ~350dpi |
| 13:30.36 | aevin | do you know what brand of the SD card that will be bundled? |
| 13:30.39 | XorA | aloril: on the hi-speed cards the faster read/write speed is noticable even if you cant make full use of it |
| 13:31.52 | aloril | hmm.. so maybe question is better phrased like "What is speed with various micro SD cards?" |
| 13:33.00 | XorA | neither of my microSD cards have speed listed |
| 13:34.50 | madwoota | you're lucky to max usb1(.1) to em |
| 13:36.31 | aloril | XorA: yeah usually only fast cards list speed, thus testing with reasonable card reader could indicate speed to some degree |
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| 14:02.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1248 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-contact-pane.c): |
| 14:02.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 2007-03-05 Thomas Wood <thomas@openedhand.com> |
| 14:02.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (field_button_add_cb), |
| 14:02.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: (make_widget), (update_ui): Keep a reference to the GtkSizeGroup for |
| 14:02.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: adding later fields with |
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| 14:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca) |
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| 14:15.22 | greentux | counter |
| 14:15.22 | aloril | P0: 10:52:19 (0.453 +-0.5 days); P1: 31.906 +-10.0 (see faq) (471) |
| 14:15.30 | greentux | a half day... ok :) |
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| 14:28.19 | SpeedEvil | Or 1 hour ago. |
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| 14:30.49 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: :) |
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| 14:31.33 | noidd | end of today in theory for P0.5 |
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| 14:35.15 | noidd | P0.5 makes no sense. scrap that. |
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| 15:01.46 | CM | OM mentioned briefly, old picture: http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2007/03/eight_great_lin.html |
| 15:02.00 | CM | Neo1973 mentioned I should say.. |
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| 15:24.44 | jebba | rwhitby, openmoko-dates.patch fails |
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| 15:33.33 | SpeedEvil | dspstv: yes, you can get NMEA data out of gpsd. The simple way is apparently 'gpspipe -r' which outputs NMEA sentances. |
| 15:33.48 | SpeedEvil | (added to wiki too) |
| 15:36.02 | *** join/#openmoko r4kY (n=Ladder_@ws42107.studby.hig.no) |
| 15:36.46 | SpeedEvil | The right way isn't to use that though, it's to use the libgpsd functions in your program directly. Usually easier. |
| 15:37.46 | noidd | Damn, I gotta go - hot water heater blown so gotten deal with flooding |
| 15:37.47 | noidd | later |
| 15:38.03 | SpeedEvil | Wave(s). |
| 15:42.22 | koen|lab | yay! |
| 15:42.22 | koen|lab | p0 devices are shipping |
| 15:42.28 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 15:42.52 | koen|lab | Maart 05, 2007 21:51 Taipei - Taiwan Vertrokken van DHL vestiging in Taipei - Taiwan |
| 15:43.52 | noidd | !! |
| 15:44.10 | paulproteus | SpeedEvil, That's very exciting news. (-: |
| 15:44.16 | noidd | how long ago did that email hit koen? |
| 15:44.32 | koen|lab | noidd: no email :) |
| 15:44.44 | XorA | they were shipping when I logged on a 9am GMT this morning |
| 15:46.04 | noidd | how did you get notification then if not by email? |
| 15:46.28 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 15:46.34 | XorA | noidd: got given a tracking number |
| 15:46.36 | koen|lab | noidd: magic :) |
| 15:46.49 | noidd | wtb tracking number :-P |
| 15:49.46 | koen|lab | time to plan some staying-at-home-for-dhl |
| 15:50.48 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 15:51.29 | koen|lab | iirc the dhl dude passes my house at ~11.00 each day |
| 15:52.04 | alphaone | Need to give him a call |
| 15:52.28 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: hmm, goes my package to brunswick, too? |
| 15:52.39 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: I believe so |
| 15:52.40 | stefan_schmidt | s/to/through/ |
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| 16:04.28 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:40.41 | _buz | maybe i should print those openmoko screenshots at 300dpi ;) |
| 16:41.12 | _buz | on overhead slides then put it in front of a light source ;) |
| 16:41.29 | loufoque | or just bring the phone |
| 16:42.27 | _buz | if i had one |
| 16:42.40 | loufoque | you want one? |
| 16:42.49 | loufoque | counter? |
| 16:42.50 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; 09:38:35 (0.402 +-0.4 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-03-04); a month (31.804 +-10.0 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-04-05); 6 months, a week, 3 days (194.804 +-15.0 days) for mass market (2007-09-15): see topic for more info (472) |
| 16:43.08 | _buz | actually i want the summer refresh |
| 16:43.11 | _buz | whatever it brings ;) |
| 16:43.20 | jipi | cool |
| 16:43.42 | hrw | * Neo1973 GSM Smartphone rev. GTA01Bv3 (Color: Black and Silver) |
| 16:43.44 | hrw | YES! |
| 16:44.07 | koen | CoreDump|afk: It seems we don't get the cool lunchbox case, but do get the contents of it (debug board, torx, etc) |
| 16:44.11 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 16:44.29 | koen | * Guitar Pick (for case/housing disassembly) |
| 16:45.07 | loufoque | guitar pick !? |
| 16:46.13 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl51B664DC.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:47.09 | hrw | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guitar_pick |
| 16:47.20 | koen | http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/phase-0-is-shipping |
| 16:47.27 | hrw | A guitar pick is a type of plectrum designed for use on a guitar. And we will use it to open case |
| 16:47.32 | koen | "plectrum" |
| 16:47.47 | koen | reminds me of the tenacious D movie :) |
| 16:48.20 | dspstv | SpeedEvil, tx again for clarifying the status of gpsd, i added myself to the buyers list, i guess thats good for nothing, will have to wait til the "phones" arrive to europe |
| 16:48.48 | koen | "Extra heavy Jim Dunlop Stubby pick is exactly 2.0 mm thick, measured by precise instrument" |
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| 16:50.13 | loufoque | hrw: I know what a guitar pick is. |
| 16:50.40 | noidd | source of the detailed report? :-) |
| 16:50.40 | loufoque | I just don't understand how you play guitar with the neo 1973 |
| 16:51.23 | parag0n | the pick is to taake the case apart |
| 16:51.25 | koen | noidd: dhl.com |
| 16:51.49 | noidd | Well, you had the advantage of a tracking # |
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| 16:53.20 | MetaMorfoziS | counter |
| 16:53.20 | aloril | P0: 09:33:20 (0.398 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.796 +-10.0 (see faq) (473) |
| 16:53.27 | MetaMorfoziS | ehh |
| 16:53.51 | MetaMorfoziS | it is out 3days before my birthday;) |
| 16:53.59 | koen | noidd: they shipped 36 devices today, maybe you're #37? |
| 16:54.29 | loufoque | MetaMorfoziS: when is your birthday |
| 16:54.31 | alphaone | koen: Isn't the carrying case the cool lunchbox? |
| 16:55.07 | MetaMorfoziS | 03.09 |
| 16:55.20 | koen | alphaone: I have no idea |
| 16:55.29 | koen | alphaone: I'm trying not to get my hopes up |
| 16:55.48 | dspstv | im 123 :( |
| 16:55.59 | noidd | koen: that number is significant. |
| 16:56.04 | Fletch | MetalMorfoziS: we have the same birthday :) |
| 16:56.21 | noidd | koen: If we assume the initial run was 500 items, 36 is 7% |
| 16:56.22 | alphaone | koen: Right |
| 16:56.28 | noidd | which was the initial failure rate. |
| 16:56.33 | loufoque | third of november of ninth of march? |
| 16:56.36 | noidd | well, success rate |
| 16:56.41 | alphaone | We can always celebrate even more afterwards :-) |
| 16:56.45 | loufoque | s/of ni/or ni/ |
| 16:59.10 | SpeedEvil | It's been said that P1 will be different hardware though. |
| 16:59.19 | jipi | hi folks, i'm trying to build the openmoko devel image.. roughly how long does it take? |
| 16:59.19 | SpeedEvil | With a new PCB. |
| 16:59.40 | SpeedEvil | So if the 36 was true, then there are 460+ sort-of-working boards out there. |
| 17:01.01 | hrw | p1 is p0 with few PCB fixes |
| 17:01.03 | noidd | I'm hypothisising and probably completely wrong |
| 17:01.04 | alphaone | 3/6/2007 12:42 am Arrived at DHL facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong |
| 17:01.06 | alphaone | :-) |
| 17:01.11 | noidd | gratz alphaone |
| 17:01.13 | hrw | bbl |
| 17:01.18 | loufoque | jipi: ten minutes |
| 17:01.42 | jipi | loufuque: sounds great... compared to the nslu2 or zaurus |
| 17:01.43 | loufoque | just a wild guess |
| 17:01.54 | jipi | loufoque:!!! |
| 17:02.47 | loufoque | you compile it for x86 right? |
| 17:03.40 | borg_ | counter |
| 17:03.40 | aloril | P0: 09:28:09 (0.395 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.789 +-10.0 (see faq) (474) |
| 17:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko aeXin (n=brootvor@150.80-203-127.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:07.19 | jipi | loufoque: openmoko? or nslu2 or zaurus? |
| 17:07.46 | loufoque | openmoko |
| 17:08.32 | daxxar | nslu2? |
| 17:08.39 | daxxar | isn't that the NAS-thing? |
| 17:09.13 | jipi | loufoque: i am at make setup... not there yet... it is still pulling some OE.mtn.bz2 frm seomwhere |
| 17:09.29 | jipi | daxxar: ya |
| 17:10.13 | jipi | ok need to zzz.. i'll jut leave it running and see. |
| 17:14.11 | noidd | 3/5/2007 9:27 pm Arrived at DHL facility. Taipei, Taiwan |
| 17:14.15 | noidd | shiny! |
| 17:14.27 | noidd | Now we wait to fight with Customs |
| 17:17.19 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
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| 17:33.44 | Elrond | counter |
| 17:33.44 | aloril | P0: 09:13:08 (0.384 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.768 +-10.0 (see faq) (475) |
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| 17:43.34 | aevin | i just read the community ML thread "Idea: Mass Text Messaging". |
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| 17:44.45 | aevin | i don't know how the state is with current up-to-date mobile phone software (I still use a nokia3310!), but i know that on semi-old phones (like SE T610) there was a problem ... |
| 17:46.05 | aevin | if you mass sent to a list of receipients and the sending somehow failed to some individuals, there was no way to identify which individuals that got the message and who didn't. |
| 17:46.24 | aevin | but this is mostly fixed in nowadays phones, or what? |
| 17:47.17 | aevin | anyways.. at least it will be fixed on our open Neo1973 :) |
| 17:47.18 | jackey | that is not phone's problem I guess |
| 17:47.20 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:47.36 | jackey | operators problem in somehow |
| 17:48.20 | aevin | no. a mass text messaging is just implementing an automated way to send several individual messages in series, rihgt? |
| 17:48.42 | aevin | so the software should be able to tell how far it managed to get through the list. |
| 17:49.09 | jackey | yup, it send over to the operator by a Q, FIFO |
| 17:49.39 | aevin | you mean, like in a burst. so that you only get one collective report of a failure for the whole Q ? |
| 17:49.46 | aevin | if so, that sounds like stupid. |
| 17:50.00 | aevin | i've always thought it was a software flaw. |
| 17:50.31 | jackey | the message did not go through because it was rejected by operator's transmission |
| 17:50.55 | jackey | those transmission received messages and sent messages automatically |
| 17:51.21 | jackey | all messages are operated in memory most of time |
| 17:51.35 | jackey | it called mem database something. |
| 17:51.54 | aevin | i don't think i understand you. |
| 17:51.59 | jackey | haha |
| 17:52.11 | aevin | :) |
| 17:52.53 | jackey | that is ok. Just let you know that if you have some failures on sending mass messages, it is very normal. |
| 17:53.00 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 17:53.06 | jackey | not just your phone's problem, also be your operator's problem too. |
| 17:54.59 | jackey | operator has a max. capacity for messages. |
| 17:54.59 | aevin | jackey: shouldn't you get an individual error report for each SMS / receipient ? |
| 17:55.00 | aevin | or do you say that mass messages uses an other protocol than sending individual messages quickly in a series? |
| 17:55.00 | aevin | s/series/row/ |
| 17:55.16 | jackey | i really do not think so. |
| 17:55.54 | jackey | Operator does not care about that. At least, I am sure that China Mobile does not care. |
| 17:56.35 | aevin | we'll find out when the Neos are around :) at least we can write the software to check it out. |
| 17:56.42 | jackey | Let me give you a short example. I have a 4M memory, I can only store 2000 contacts with 4M. |
| 17:56.46 | aevin | maybe , as you say, it's network/carrier dependant. |
| 17:57.01 | jackey | in order to add new contacts, i have to drop some old ones first. |
| 17:57.09 | aevin | -dEnt |
| 17:57.35 | jackey | yup, it is network/carrier thing |
| 17:57.36 | aevin | jackey: so you say there's an upper limit? |
| 17:57.38 | aevin | ok. |
| 17:58.13 | jackey | en, messages will not store in hard drive, it is transmited in memory |
| 17:58.36 | aevin | i don't know how it's like with your operator, but according to your experience you get charged the same as for sending X individual messages, right? |
| 17:58.37 | jackey | you get a failure response because your message is timeout in Q |
| 17:59.28 | jackey | that is something that i do not know. 99% people does not care. |
| 18:00.02 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 18:00.15 | jackey | During Chinese New Year Festival, people like to send greeting to everyone they knew. |
| 18:00.22 | aevin | i was just wondering if your operator had some special mass messaging support implemented and if we were talking about the same thing. |
| 18:00.42 | jackey | Messages were lost or sent one week later. |
| 18:01.58 | jackey | My english is not that good. But I am confident that operators have their limitation. |
| 18:02.13 | LarstiQ | jackey: your English is rather good, really |
| 18:02.27 | jackey | Especially in China, 52M new mobile users every month |
| 18:04.03 | jackey | I worked with operators. Since may be different when you have to handle over too many mobile users, e.g. 5 billion. |
| 18:04.45 | jackey | China Mobile made 11 billion in Chinese New Year Festival (only a week) |
| 18:05.29 | hrw | english billion? as 10^9 |
| 18:05.50 | jackey | just for mobile messages, 11 billion RMB close 1.x Billion USD |
| 18:06.13 | parag0n | an english billion is 10^12 |
| 18:06.41 | jackey | each message is less than $CNY 0.10, 11B / 0.10 = lots lots |
| 18:06.41 | loufoque | a billion is a thousand millions |
| 18:06.52 | hrw | loufoque: it depends.. |
| 18:06.58 | jackey | lots lots of messages |
| 18:07.12 | hrw | loufoque: in Polish we have milion (10^6), miliard (10^9), bilion (10^12) |
| 18:07.28 | koen | hrw: same in .nl |
| 18:07.45 | loufoque | in English, a billion is what you would call a miliard |
| 18:07.52 | jackey | last experience, they had at least 20% drop off ( failed to send messages ) |
| 18:07.53 | koen | hrw: but in europe we understand the metric system :) |
| 18:07.56 | loufoque | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billion |
| 18:08.07 | aevin | hrw: same in .no :) |
| 18:08.22 | jackey | thanks, good to know loufoque |
| 18:09.45 | jackey | hey, anyone here had a neo? |
| 18:09.59 | loufoque | not yet |
| 18:10.04 | loufoque | it's being shipped |
| 18:10.14 | loufoque | from taipei |
| 18:10.22 | jackey | you ordered? |
| 18:10.25 | jackey | how? |
| 18:11.33 | hrw | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_and_short_scales |
| 18:12.02 | hrw | jackey: I played with two protos |
| 18:12.07 | jackey | aevin, your problem will also depend on the base station served your mobile. |
| 18:12.27 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 18:13.20 | jackey | aevin, if you are taking about GSM network. I am pretty sure that some base station will drop messages somehow. |
| 18:13.32 | aevin | yes. i think you earlier might have been thinking of the case when the network is congested when there may be a long delay until the message is delivered. |
| 18:14.27 | aevin | i was more thinking of the case when you have low SNR and the transmission partly failed (with ~instant delivery through the network). |
| 18:14.38 | jackey | that is right. >= 60 % mobile were designed in China, especially in Taiwan. |
| 18:15.27 | jackey | Mobile hardware vendors are doing pretty good jobs in last decade |
| 18:16.29 | jackey | yup |
| 18:16.38 | jackey | hrw, p0 and p1? |
| 18:17.00 | hrw | jackey: no. p-1 both |
| 18:17.37 | hrw | jackey: prototypes. p0 is first non-prototype, p1 is/will be first usable phone |
| 18:17.38 | jackey | hrw, wow. P1 is ready to make/receive a call? |
| 18:17.53 | *** join/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
| 18:18.04 | hrw | jackey: p0 is ready but has sidetone during call which make it unusable |
| 18:18.14 | koen | too loud sidetone |
| 18:18.15 | aloril2 | counter |
| 18:18.16 | aloril | some shipped P0: 08:50:52 (0.369 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.737 +-10.0 (see faq) (475) |
| 18:18.21 | koen | every unit will have some sidetone |
| 18:18.47 | aevin | sidetone? noise from the power supply ? |
| 18:18.54 | jackey | how is UI looks like? Same as pics on website? |
| 18:19.05 | LarstiQ | hmm, P1 date got moved into the future? |
| 18:19.35 | jackey | I think GTK is a better solution for mobile linux, less license problems |
| 18:19.52 | aevin | jackey: better than ... ? |
| 18:20.42 | jackey | than nothing, hehe. |
| 18:20.58 | aevin | i agree ;-) |
| 18:21.13 | loufoque | hrw: I am French, and we avoid the problem very easily : we don't use the words "billion" or "trillion". |
| 18:21.26 | aevin | btw, better than nothing may perhaps be misinterpreted... :) |
| 18:22.14 | jackey | aevin, No comments on that. :-) |
| 18:22.35 | hrw | aevin: then Qt |
| 18:22.55 | jackey | :-O |
| 18:22.56 | aevin | hrw: i think i still agree :) |
| 18:23.10 | jackey | No comments on that too. |
| 18:23.23 | hrw | Qt == GPL or pay |
| 18:24.30 | aevin | you know that guy (knut yrvin, trolltech) asking questions after about 29 mins into the video from the OpenMoko presentation at FOSDEM... |
| 18:25.03 | aevin | ... he had a presentation about greenphone at my univ approx two weeks earlier. |
| 18:25.38 | aevin | then i asked him if he'd heard about openmoko and if he regarded it as a serious competitor vs their qtopia. |
| 18:25.41 | aloril2 | LarstiQ: lower limit is still 2007-03-25, but yeah, its probably a bit later |
| 18:26.27 | sannes | aevin: what did he answer? :P |
| 18:26.34 | aevin | he mostly laughed and said he didn't want to specify too much on who was considered to be the biggest competitor and that he thought FIC was crazy being too open about things . |
| 18:26.59 | LarstiQ | aloril2: where do you update that information from? |
| 18:27.46 | aevin | and then he mentioned that he thought FIC would have trouble to get permission to sell them, with that FCC/some operators doesn't allow open source phones due to risk of sabotage to the network etc. |
| 18:28.21 | aevin | but that was kind of weird that he said that, because he just had been us that the greenphone had been running into the same "problem", of course. |
| 18:28.59 | aevin | and they too went for a solution with a seperate radio/GSM chip running proprietary sw and using AT commands etc. |
| 18:29.10 | jackey | honestly, openmoko has a long way to go. |
| 18:29.52 | aevin | but i think he/trolltech had understood it as they were only allowed to sell it (after some debate with some carriers) since they marketed it as a developer phone, and not for end user. |
| 18:30.31 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=adutko@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net) |
| 18:30.36 | aevin | and that openmoko/neo1973 would run into more trouble because it was supposed to also be marketed for end users/mass market. |
| 18:30.52 | jackey | In my viewpoint, Mr Yrvin laughted: Go ahead, you will be ... down anyway. |
| 18:32.11 | aevin | besides that he also said that openmoko was a kind of confirmation that they were doing the right thing, as sa credit to them, by using linux on the mobile phone (but it's not that trolltech tries to free the phones, most of their customers develops for locked linux phones, i guess) |
| 18:32.55 | aevin | ... and that he thought linux on mobile would grow enourmously |
| 18:33.05 | jackey | Actually, i think that openmoko is good for them in many ways. |
| 18:33.11 | aevin | -u |
| 18:33.42 | jackey | aevin, he is right. |
| 18:33.49 | aevin | jackey: yes, since the phone is free there's nothing stopping them from starting their own Qt-based DE / distro. |
| 18:34.26 | jackey | i am thinking that may be we could run qtopia on neo and show to him. |
| 18:34.34 | aevin | it mostly depends on the commmunity, if someone really want a Qt phone. |
| 18:34.42 | jackey | See, it works with Qtopia, can we sale it now? |
| 18:37.27 | jackey | Qtopia 4.2 Phone Edition is much better than 2.2. Unfortunately, most of applications running on 2.2 will not work on 4.2 |
| 18:39.36 | aloril2 | LarstiQ: ml, fosdem video/slides and irq |
| 18:39.56 | aevin | irq? |
| 18:39.58 | LarstiQ | aloril2: ho hum |
| 18:40.17 | LarstiQ | aloril2: I thought I've been paying attention to all of those |
| 18:41.50 | aevin | jackey: but i don't think yrvin was raising those questions and being skeptic about things _just_ because the OM distro will use GTK+ instead of Qt. |
| 18:42.53 | Elrond | counter |
| 18:42.53 | aloril | some shipped P0: 08:38:33 (0.360 +-0.4 days); P1: 31.720 +-10.0 (see faq) (476) |
| 18:43.07 | jackey | haha, you are right. Biz is biz |
| 18:43.24 | aevin | i think (at least i hope) he was trying to be sincere with his concerns, based on their experiences by moving open source phone into the market. |
| 18:44.25 | jackey | Lots of design houses are moving their focus onto Linux. ACCESS did so. |
| 18:44.37 | aevin | btw, it seems like there won't be much choice between possible operators if you live in the US. (but I don't really know the whole american market) |
| 18:44.58 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@Z4c18.z.pppool.de) |
| 18:45.15 | jackey | American Market is small compare to Chinese market. |
| 18:45.28 | aevin | if AT&T/cingular requires the Neo1973 to be white-listed, will there only be T-Mobile, or is there other GSM (virtual) operators to choose from? |
| 18:45.36 | don-o | p0 shipped woot. anyone know in what quantity? |
| 18:45.41 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 18:46.04 | jackey | Rogers maybe |
| 18:46.18 | jackey | in Canada |
| 18:46.30 | Elrond | "white listed"?! What's that? |
| 18:47.12 | koen | Elrond: only approved phones can make calls |
| 18:47.13 | aevin | Elrond: i think i read it on the community ML. i assume it is that only phones approved by the operator is allowed access to the network. |
| 18:47.25 | Clint | based on what identifier? |
| 18:47.31 | koen | Elrond: they add your imei to /etc/ethers ;) |
| 18:47.49 | jackey | aevin, for biz, profit is a must |
| 18:48.15 | Elrond | That's another way of vendor lock in. C00l. ;o) |
| 18:48.18 | aevin | jackey: yeah. let's hope FIC will succeed (too). |
| 18:48.54 | Elrond | Another reason not to move to .us ;) |
| 18:49.03 | koen | when the 2.6 port is finished we can run openmoko on the greenphone |
| 18:49.45 | stefan_schmidt | koen: zecke is making good progress? |
| 18:49.46 | *** join/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 18:49.50 | aevin | koen: they're upgrading the kernel from 2.4 ? |
| 18:50.07 | koen | aevin: no, zecke is doing a 2.6 port on his own |
| 18:50.18 | stefan_schmidt | aevin: Not trolltech, your friendly neighbour hacker. :) |
| 18:50.27 | aevin | cool :) |
| 18:51.43 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.17.186.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 18:52.33 | aevin | btw, in that greenphone presentation with Yrvin, he complained some about their kernel supplier (was it a company in australia? i don't know) mentioning some difficulties to collaborate with them and hinting that they _might_ perhaps look for a new kernel supplier. |
| 18:53.36 | aevin | but he couldn't say anything (but he wasn't hard to read) as nothing was official and they're a public company etc. lol. |
| 18:53.39 | Ryushin | So I guess it's not very likely that we'll see a phone doing cdma and evdo this year in the US. |
| 18:53.40 | koen | there are 17 binary only modules in the greenphone kernel |
| 18:54.05 | koen | so the next person that says "open" needs to think about what it really means |
| 18:54.30 | CM | don-o: 36 phones shipped yesterday |
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| 18:56.33 | aloril2 | LarstiQ: latest change is mostly influences by hrw's estimate of 4-6 weeks from last week in this channel (hrw has been right about delays earlier too), also I think at fosdem it was said late March or early April too |
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| 18:58.08 | hrw | aloril2: thx for having faith in me ;D |
| 18:58.18 | hrw | or how it will be in english |
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| 19:00.33 | hrw | cu |
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| 19:01.21 | LarstiQ | aloril2: ok |
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| 19:27.44 | sixfeet | hi |
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| 19:31.16 | PBeck | hi |
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| 19:46.21 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1249 10/branches/oe/: oe branches |
| 19:47.23 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1250 10/branches/oe/pre-20070305/: branch off the old pre-20070305 'oe' bb collection, 'trunk' will update to current OE. |
| 19:47.45 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p5B07DE95.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:50.07 | *** part/#openmoko ds1 (n=dpfleger@nat0.xsigo.com) |
| 19:52.01 | _buz | http://www.meizume.com/showthread.php?t=852 i dont believe the price |
| 19:52.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1251 10/trunk/oe/ (32 files in 26 dirs): |
| 19:52.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: update our 'oe' recipie collection to upstream OE. This is known to build with |
| 19:52.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: upstream OE mtn version 'e2dbb52fe39df7ef786b6068f6178f29508dfded' from 20070305 |
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| 20:59.49 | CM | StylusEater: Great nick :-) (Btw, you know there's no stylus holder on the Neo?) |
| 21:01.14 | Elrond | Is there already a wishlist filed for the stylus holder? |
| 21:01.45 | CM | Don't know, maybe in the "holder" or what it was.. |
| 21:02.39 | BrianHV | is the developer phone going to be limited to any particular group besides those willing to pay $350? i.e., can I buy one? ;) |
| 21:02.39 | aloril | BrianHV: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 21:02.52 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 21:03.04 | Elrond | ~change 416.5 usd to eur |
| 21:03.30 | Elrond | BrianHV - You can buy one. |
| 21:03.38 | BrianHV | nice. |
| 21:03.40 | Elrond | ... provided you wait approx a month. |
| 21:03.51 | BrianHV | I don't have any free time until april, anyway. |
| 21:04.10 | BrianHV | and seeing as I'm on CDMA, it would only be to tinker, so no rush. |
| 21:04.30 | Elrond | CDMA? |
| 21:04.43 | Elrond | rwhitby - So your phone is also in transit?! |
| 21:04.49 | BrianHV | the cell protocol in the US that isn't GSM |
| 21:05.01 | CM | They sent 36 yesterday |
| 21:05.45 | Elrond | CM - Ahh. Using a carrier with online tracking? |
| 21:06.03 | stefan_schmidt | 3/6/2007 3:55 am Depart Facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong |
| 21:06.12 | stefan_schmidt | :) |
| 21:06.25 | Elrond | Ahh. :) |
| 21:06.30 | Elrond | Which timezone is that? ;o) |
| 21:06.43 | CM | Elrond: DHL. LaF0rge said that it was 36 units shipped earlier in #oe |
| 21:06.53 | rwhitby | 3/6/2007 2:43 am Depart Facility. Kowloon, Hong Kong |
| 21:06.54 | CM | Also, nice that they're merging with oe |
| 21:07.13 | Elrond | Yes. |
| 21:07.19 | Elrond | I hope they merge with u-boot too. |
| 21:08.27 | Psi | "<CM> They sent 36 yesterday" NICE! |
| 21:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@CPE0016b6230168-CM0014e827107e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 21:09.38 | *** part/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@CPE0016b6230168-CM0014e827107e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 21:10.27 | don-o | hopefully someone will do a blog entry about the actualy p0 units. |
| 21:10.35 | don-o | s/actualy/actual/ |
| 21:12.38 | Elrond | rwhitby - Take pics of the box before opening it. Please resist the immediate "I need to open it NOW" pressure. :) |
| 21:12.50 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 21:14.08 | LoDown | hopefully enought to hold me over until I can afford a unit |
| 21:14.08 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 21:14.15 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Yeah, I guess so too. But seldom they have "boxes before opening" ;) |
| 21:14.18 | LoDown | speaking of the devil |
| 21:15.17 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Can be. Personally I have no camera at all. :) |
| 21:15.49 | Elrond | CM - hehe, "show pix" ;o) |
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| 21:17.35 | CM | 266 ppl here.. Quite popular :) |
| 21:17.54 | CM | apt: And you |
| 21:17.55 | apt | i'm a broken bot |
| 21:18.08 | CM | koen: :P |
| 21:18.39 | Elrond | apt: botsnack |
| 21:18.39 | apt | Elrond: :) |
| 21:19.57 | rwhitby | I'm sure koen will have much better photos than I - I'm not really a photography enthusiast like he is. |
| 21:20.21 | rwhitby | but I expect I won't get it for 24 hours at this rate anyway. |
| 21:20.46 | koen | rwhitby: I still haven't managed to capture my toys as nice as you did with yours |
| 21:21.13 | rwhitby | koen: you mean "SlugCentral" ? |
| 21:21.33 | koen | yep, that one |
| 21:21.35 | rwhitby | http://www.nslu2-linux.org/gallery/slug-central |
| 21:23.18 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=adutko@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net) |
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| 21:35.31 | thresh_ | rwhitby: must be a bug somewhere |
| 21:36.26 | rwhitby | thresh_: yes, there always is - no such thing as bug-free software |
| 21:36.53 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-1-87.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:40.59 | rwhitby | hmm - cathay pacific (dhl partner flying out of hong kong) only flies direct to adelaide on mon,wed,..., so I won't get it today. |
| 21:44.35 | rwhitby | Neo1973 GSM Smartphone rev. GTA01Bv3 (Color: Black and Silver) |
| 21:44.39 | rwhitby | black and silver. yes!! |
| 21:45.01 | rwhitby | has anyone pastebin'd the phase0 email for you guys yet? |
| 21:45.33 | cjb | ooh, black and silver? |
| 21:45.47 | cjb | I think the orange on mine goes better with OLPCs than silver :) |
| 21:46.08 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: What, no black silver OLPC? |
| 21:46.09 | stefan_schmidt | ;) |
| 21:46.26 | rwhitby | http://pastebin.ca/382747 <- phase0 email |
| 21:46.34 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: maybe, maybe :) |
| 21:47.14 | rwhitby | including the torx bit is a nice touch. |
| 21:47.17 | cjb | one of the reasons to use pastel colours is that we want the laptops to be as childlike as possible, to avoid people stealing them |
| 21:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko hadara (i=hadara@bsd.ee) |
| 21:47.23 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: You know something about the deal with buying 2 OLPC get one for you and one for a child. Would be more then happy to do so. (Need a edu pc for my godchild anyway. :)) |
| 21:47.50 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: It's just an idea that someone unassociated the project proposed, so there are no concrete plans to do it. Makes sense to me, though. |
| 21:47.50 | daxxar | OLPC? |
| 21:48.33 | cjb | For the moment, I think US people who want one should just get a $350 Dell laptop instead. The OLPCs are pretty specific to problems people in the developing world have, like no power or network infrastructure. |
| 21:49.25 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: OK, I can wait. Would be a nice idea IMHO. I know many people would like to help children and get one for hacking. We shall see. |
| 21:49.27 | stefan_schmidt | daxxar: One Laptop Per Child project |
| 21:49.42 | daxxar | ah |
| 21:49.48 | daxxar | Heard of that :) |
| 21:50.02 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: Indeed I can buy another pc with more power, but I like the children friendly design and ideas. |
| 21:51.46 | cjb | :) |
| 21:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 21:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178079155.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 21:57.18 | noidd | rwhitby: there seem to be asterisks where your trackling number should be :-) |
| 22:05.04 | rwhitby | noidd: indeed :-) |
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| 22:16.09 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 22:22.21 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Without any idea of it or any implied warranties (I just was pointed by someone at it and I have NOT yet looked a lot at it): www.koolu.com. As I understand it, this wants to be this "one pc for you, one for a someone who needs it) |
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| 22:25.43 | *** join/#openmoko shwag (n=steven@cpe-76-80-88-199.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 22:25.53 | shwag | when can I get the 1973 ? |
| 22:26.01 | shwag | see topic |
| 22:26.22 | don-o | shwag: say 'counter' |
| 22:26.28 | shwag | counter |
| 22:26.28 | aloril | some shipped P0: 06:46:45 (0.282 +-0.3 days); P1: 31.565 +-10.0 (see faq) (477) |
| 22:26.41 | don-o | shwag: 31 days left. |
| 22:26.51 | shwag | whats P0 and P1 ? |
| 22:26.55 | shwag | phase.. |
| 22:26.59 | SpeedEvil | P0 = shipped dev devices |
| 22:27.02 | don-o | shwag: see the faq :) (they are hardware revs) |
| 22:27.07 | SpeedEvil | P1 = to-ship dev-user devices. |
| 22:27.14 | SpeedEvil | P2 = mass market (Sep) |
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| 22:31.21 | woglinde | ../../src/share/tools/javazic/sun/tools/javazic/Time.java:164: sun.util.calendar.CalendarDate is abstract; cannot be instantiated CalendarDate date = new CalendarDate(year, month, day); |
| 22:31.26 | woglinde | args |
| 22:34.37 | b_lindeijer | woglinde: Date date = (new Calendar().set(year, month, day)).getTime() ? |
| 22:34.54 | woglinde | b_linderje sorry wasnt meant in this channel |
| 22:35.21 | woglinde | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:35.22 | b_lindeijer | Hehe. |
| 22:35.44 | b_lindeijer | Also, I noticed now that Calendar() is protected, and you probaly should use GregorianCalendar. :) |
| 22:36.11 | woglinde | he its not my code |
| 22:36.56 | b_lindeijer | Alright, just trying to help out. |
| 22:37.13 | woglinde | dont know why they release such crappy things |
| 22:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 22:41.13 | Elrond | woglinde - *duck* "Because the community will do the work for free"? ;o) |
| 22:41.45 | woglinde | elrond yes |
| 22:42.03 | CoreDump|home | w000t |
| 22:42.24 | CoreDump|home | "(Color: Black and Silver)" |
| 22:44.25 | woglinde | hm its in a function called getLocalTime |
| 22:44.32 | CoreDump|home | nice, it's even an express shipment |
| 22:44.38 | woglinde | coredump hehe how long last the akku? |
| 22:44.40 | SpeedEvil | CoreDump|home: Could you document that on the wiki? |
| 22:44.56 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: At the worst, 2 days. |
| 22:44.57 | CoreDump|home | I don't have it yet |
| 22:45.04 | woglinde | lol |
| 22:45.06 | CoreDump|home | Just saying =) |
| 22:45.08 | SpeedEvil | woglinde: actual numbers have not bee published. |
| 22:45.14 | SpeedEvil | 3-4 hours of video. |
| 22:45.22 | CoreDump|home | they will be very bad for p0 devices tho |
| 22:45.28 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 22:45.43 | woglinde | speedevil this the reason I suspended it |
| 22:45.45 | SpeedEvil | However, they should be accurate in normal mode. |
| 22:45.54 | SpeedEvil | suspended what? |
| 22:46.14 | SpeedEvil | CoreDump|home Put it on [[Neo1973:Dance]] |
| 22:46.22 | CoreDump|home | SpeedEvil: hehe |
| 22:46.26 | CoreDump|home | no cam here |
| 22:46.29 | woglinde | speedevil the phone |
| 22:46.38 | CoreDump|home | would look rather stupid anyway hehe |
| 22:46.49 | SpeedEvil | How can you suspend a phone you don't have? |
| 22:46.54 | CoreDump|home | woglinde: so you are one of the 14 ;) |
| 22:46.59 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 22:47.24 | woglinde | speedevil no problem |
| 22:47.27 | woglinde | :) |
| 22:47.35 | CoreDump|home | Shipment Reference: ENGINEERING SAMPLE |
| 22:47.36 | CoreDump|home | =D |
| 22:47.37 | SpeedEvil | What wakeup sources does it support? |
| 22:47.46 | SpeedEvil | I thought it couldn't wakeup when suspended. |
| 22:48.03 | woglinde | no no |
| 22:48.10 | woglinde | I will get it later |
| 22:48.14 | woglinde | thats all |
| 22:48.21 | woglinde | next hw-revision |
| 22:48.37 | SpeedEvil | The first hardware revidsion you can buy will not thave those bugs. |
| 22:48.55 | SpeedEvil | It's only the P0 phones that are going out to core developers that have bugs. |
| 22:49.01 | CoreDump|home | woglinde: while tax might be a bitch, It rocks to have one phone for hacking and one for err "Phoning" |
| 22:49.28 | woglinde | coredump we will see |
| 22:49.39 | woglinde | but my actual cellphone is broken |
| 22:49.55 | CoreDump|home | woglinde: ah :\ |
| 22:50.23 | woglinde | battle? |
| 22:50.41 | CoreDump|home | it looks like it has been two both world-wars =) |
| 22:50.55 | CoreDump|home | s/two/to |
| 22:51.04 | CoreDump|home | at...whatever |
| 22:51.18 | *** join/#openmoko dyrne (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 22:51.47 | woglinde | hm you set it on fire? |
| 22:52.39 | CoreDump|home | I always carry it in my pants. It has scratches all-over and is missing color in some spots =). The backplate is kinda dented as well |
| 22:53.58 | CoreDump|home | hmmm, I can't find the specs of International Express on DHL.com |
| 23:06.43 | *** join/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@71.58.61.130) |
| 23:06.49 | *** part/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@71.58.61.130) |
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| 23:09.00 | *** part/#openmoko billstevenson (n=billstev@c-71-58-61-130.hsd1.pa.comcast.net) |
| 23:09.49 | woglinde | hm |
| 23:10.31 | woglinde | I think I have the java error, the jvm loads its own Classes for some Classes instead of the phoneme classes |
| 23:15.58 | rwhitby | LaF0rge: for MokoMakefile, should I freeze at the new OE revision, or let the OE revision float? |
| 23:20.01 | rwhitby | jebba: there is no openmoko-dates.patch any more in mokomakefile - you need to update |
| 23:21.17 | rwhitby | CoreDump|home: with mokomakefile it only builds once per day. and LaF0rge has a cunning plan for fixing that permanently too. |
| 23:21.46 | CoreDump|home | yeah, I read about it. Nifty idea |
| 23:22.50 | rwhitby | pity the initial reaction from OE was "how come you didn't talk to us" instead of "great, let's all work together on this, since you have the cash to pay someone to do it" |
| 23:23.24 | jebba | hmm, but i did update. There is one in patches/openmoko-HEAD/openmoko-dates.patch "At revision 10" (`make update-makefile && make update-patches`) |
| 23:23.49 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.19.201.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 23:24.12 | rwhitby | jebba: we're at revision 42 now. |
| 23:24.23 | CoreDump|home | could be easily done w/ a bbclass |
| 23:24.24 | jebba | peculiar |
| 23:24.39 | rwhitby | (you must have missed the move from projects.openmoko.org to svn.nslu2-linux.org due to anon svn not working on proj.om.org |
| 23:25.55 | rwhitby | jebba: grab a new copy of the Makefile from www.rwhitby.net and move away the patches dir to get a new one |
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| 23:29.32 | jebba | ah, ok. Ya, now it's giving me rev 42.... (i was wondering what had happened there....) thanks :) |
| 23:30.29 | rwhitby | wait for a couple of minutes before you kick off a new build |
| 23:31.36 | *** join/#openmoko tg (n=tg@valinor.mokk.bme.hu) |
| 23:31.57 | rwhitby | jebba: you'll want the next rev which will appear soon |
| 23:32.21 | jebba | ctrl-c |
| 23:32.52 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r43 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Removed freeze on OE revision, and reinstated update-mtn and update-openembedded dependencies, as per latest OM core dev usage. |
| 23:33.02 | rwhitby | give that a go |
| 23:41.19 | stefan_schmidt | REMINDER: For the students here: If OpenMoko should attend Google summer of code we need more ideas. Please add, serious one, to the wiki until 2007-03-09. http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Summer_of_code |
| 23:41.20 | jebba | `make update` ... good so far. We're gonna have one helluva polished build system by the time we actually get fones ;) |
| 23:41.21 | rwhitby | jebba: I'm working on adding devirginator build assistance to mokomakefile next |
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| 23:41.24 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: added one |
| 23:41.25 | rwhitby | don-o: three out of three new developers recommend it ... |
| 23:41.27 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: thanks |
| 23:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko shwag (n=steven@cpe-76-80-88-199.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 23:41.28 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: added another :) |
| 23:41.29 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 23:41.29 | rwhitby | cjb: what other tools have you needed in your first week with the neo? what should be added to mokomakefile to make it easier for phase0 devs? |
| 23:41.32 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: Let me know if OpenMoko would like help running/mentoring SoC; I was one of the admins for GNOME's SoC last year. |
| 23:42.38 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 23:42.46 | LuitvD | so, is there a p0 device yet? |
| 23:42.47 | cjb | rwhitby: Did a great job for me; I've only needed the uImage, u-boot and NAND image, and it creates all of them. |
| 23:42.49 | LuitvD | counter |
| 23:42.49 | aloril | some shipped P0: 06:08:35 (0.256 +-0.3 days); P1: 31.512 +-10.0 (see faq) (478) |
| 23:42.51 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: I think they could need help. I talk to mickey|austria about it and send you a mail. What's your address? |
| 23:43.06 | stefan_schmidt | LuitvD: Shipped yesterday in .tw |
| 23:43.09 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: cjb =at= laptop.org |
| 23:43.10 | LuitvD | nice |
| 23:43.11 | rwhitby | LuitvD: http://pastebin.ca/382747 |
| 23:43.16 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: nice one :) |
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| 23:43.54 | LuitvD | rwhitby: printed version of both GPL and LGPL? lol |
| 23:44.13 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: I hope to mail you on sunday. |
| 23:44.34 | LuitvD | nice package... debugboard and all :| |
| 23:44.35 | cjb | stefan_schmidt: Sure. |
| 23:45.31 | Elrond | cjb - BTW: Did you find out about the partitioning? |
| 23:46.21 | rwhitby | cjb: did you try out devirginator? |
| 23:46.34 | cjb | Elrond: looks like I need a u-boot update |
| 23:46.45 | cjb | rwhitby: no, because my debug board has no JTAG populated |
| 23:46.53 | rwhitby | ah |
| 23:46.58 | cjb | we have our own JTAG hardware here, but I haven't used it with OpenOCD. |
| 23:47.06 | cjb | so I'd rather just flash u-boot from inside u-boot |
| 23:47.19 | cjb | and then do the kernel/NAND updates in u-boot too |
| 23:48.26 | vmaster | cjb: no FTDI chip on your debug board? |
| 23:49.26 | Elrond | cjb - Didn't the debug board work? I thought you already got the serial console using it? Then openocd should work. |
| 23:49.39 | Elrond | cjb - But updating u-boot from inside u-boot should work. |
| 23:49.51 | cjb | Elrond: the serial comes over the debug ribbon. I think JTAG goes over J10, which is a different port on the debug board. |
| 23:50.06 | cjb | and my J10 is unpopulated; it looks populated in the photo on the wiki. |
| 23:50.19 | *** join/#openmoko grge (n=greg@88-108-1-87.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:50.20 | vmaster | cjb: that's just if you want to use the debug board for a non-Neo target |
| 23:50.38 | cjb | oh! that's awesome. |
| 23:51.05 | vmaster | cjb: the jtag signals go through whatever that flat plastic cable is called |
| 23:51.10 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: the ftdi chip on the boards gives you both jtag and serial. Both over usb |
| 23:51.11 | vmaster | the FTDI chip does the JTAG |
| 23:51.25 | cjb | awesome. thanks both. I'll try the devirginator instructions tonight, then. |
| 23:51.27 | Elrond | cjb - The big ribbon is jtag + serial console (+ spi + i2c + .... for the v04 phone) |
| 23:51.46 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: vmaster is the guy behind OpenOCD. He should be able to give you some hints. :) |
| 23:52.04 | cjb | :) |
| 23:52.05 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 23:52.38 | cjb | I presumed from the actual port being unpopulated that our debug board v2 was like a debug board v1 (which didn't have JTAG). That clears it up, though, thanks. |
| 23:53.32 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - You should ask aloril to put it in his scriptlets ;o) |
| 23:53.37 | vmaster | the OpenOCD doesn't allow you to flash the NAND though, so you would still use u-boot |
| 23:53.56 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: heh |
| 23:54.02 | vmaster | you really only /need/ JTAG when you killed the u-boot in the NAND and in RAM |
| 23:54.33 | vmaster | to load an u-boot image that then does the flashing |
| 23:55.20 | stefan_schmidt | vmaster: I'm not sure about the NAND flashing offhand, but the devirginator app allows you a complete *reflash* of the device. Of course using openocd and all the other tools. |
| 23:55.47 | stefan_schmidt | s/complete *reflash*/*complete* reflash/ |
| 23:55.49 | Elrond | vmaster - (probably asking the wrong, but it seems you might know) Can u-boot load itself into ram and start itself? (which I would do, when I wanted to upgrade u-boot: First load into RAM, start to see, if it works, then flash it.) |
| 23:56.45 | vmaster | that's how it's used by the devirginator as I understand it |
| 23:57.09 | stefan_schmidt | jup |
| 23:57.17 | vmaster | I just browsed the SVN, and they're using the OpenOCD to load u-boot to RAM, which then does the flashing, but you can also use u-boot to load a new u-boot to RAM |
| 23:57.32 | Elrond | I thought devirginator would use sjf2410-something to flash u-boot and then reset the thing... |
| 23:57.47 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 23:57.50 | vmaster | that only works with the parallel port JTAG of the v1 debug board |
| 23:58.09 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: sjf2410 is old cruft. :) |
| 23:59.34 | Elrond | Ahh. |