| 00:01.56 | dilinger | hehe, when stap gets to be too much.. :) |
| 00:02.06 | cjb | innit. |
| 00:06.00 | fluffs | we're not doing too bad |
| 00:06.24 | cjb | ok, ready. |
| 00:06.35 | Elrond | fluffs - What do you mean? |
| 00:06.46 | fluffs | i got a nice load of patches in |
| 00:07.05 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 00:07.20 | Elrond | I'm still waiting for comments on my request. |
| 00:07.37 | rwhitby | cjb: you keeping a log of your session so you can pastebin it? |
| 00:07.41 | fluffs | which request? |
| 00:07.44 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: From Harald or other samsung stuff? |
| 00:08.01 | fluffs | samsung stuff, and sm501 driver |
| 00:08.17 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: ah, ok |
| 00:08.18 | Elrond | fluffs - http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2007-February/000000.html |
| 00:10.07 | cjb | rwhitby: sure. |
| 00:11.42 | cjb | U-Boot 1.1.6 (Jan 4 2007 - 12:28:52) |
| 00:11.42 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:11.42 | cjb | DRAM: 128 MB |
| 00:11.42 | cjb | NAND: 64 MiB |
| 00:11.45 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:12.17 | Elrond | Hey! |
| 00:12.34 | LuitvD | hey? |
| 00:12.42 | cjb | anyone know if 1.1.6 is modern enough that I don't need to upgrade it? |
| 00:12.51 | rwhitby | I'm happy to suspend normal flooding rules for cjb as he embarks on this journey. Anyone object? |
| 00:13.07 | cjb | Nah, I won't paste more than a few lines at once. |
| 00:13.16 | rwhitby | (i.e. I'd like to see cjb paste lots of stuff in-channel as he progresses) |
| 00:13.36 | Elrond | rwhitby - No problem with me. |
| 00:13.39 | rwhitby | since it is the only way we can vicariously play with the real hardware at the moment :-) |
| 00:13.40 | cjb | so, question two: what can read micro-sd cards? |
| 00:14.15 | SpeedEvil | Any SD reader with an adaptor |
| 00:14.18 | Elrond | What do you mean by "read micro-sd cards"? |
| 00:15.28 | Elrond | Ahh, you mean "write" ;) |
| 00:15.29 | Elrond | Yeah. Any sd-card reader/writer. There are adaptors out there. |
| 00:15.36 | Elrond | (even my dad has such an adaptor. Don't ask me, where he got it from.) |
| 00:15.36 | cjb | k, we should have one somewhere. |
| 00:15.40 | SpeedEvil | And many '484848 in 1' card readers will do it native. |
| 00:16.03 | cjb | oh! I think we got shipped an adaptor. That was considerate. |
| 00:16.15 | cjb | yup |
| 00:16.18 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - A friend fighted some of them and didn't get most to work under linux. |
| 00:17.32 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 00:17.35 | Elrond | s/nand/rootfs ;) |
| 00:17.41 | cjb | yup, that. |
| 00:17.44 | SpeedEvil | Well - http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=005&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWN%3AIT&viewitem=&item=150091394703&rd=1&rd=1 worked for me. Tiny SD-micro reader. |
| 00:18.08 | SpeedEvil | 2.0, 2.2.4 |
| 00:18.09 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 00:19.35 | cjb | I have a zImage-*.bin and modules-*. Is that what uboot wants, or is there another step? |
| 00:19.36 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 00:20.22 | LuitvD | hmm, free opensolaris starterkit :) |
| 00:21.13 | rwhitby | cjb: which wiki page are you following? |
| 00:21.35 | LuitvD | fluffs: lol |
| 00:22.02 | fluffs | that and the manager with the attention span of a dazed kitten |
| 00:22.08 | LuitvD | fluffs: are those FOS now? |
| 00:22.17 | Elrond | cjb - Only the zImage, I assume. The modules have to be in the rootfs. ;) |
| 00:22.21 | cjb | rwhitby: for the moment, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Bootloader#Creating_bootable_images |
| 00:22.23 | fluffs | never got it working |
| 00:22.27 | LuitvD | hehehe |
| 00:22.33 | fluffs | then left |
| 00:22.33 | LuitvD | what was it for? |
| 00:22.40 | cjb | Elrond: ok. so the build/tmp/deploy/images/ contains the modules- just in case I happen to want them outside the rootfs? |
| 00:22.43 | fluffs | network load balancing |
| 00:23.00 | cjb | ah, perhaps in case I want an initfs. hm. So I'll convert the zImage to a uimage. |
| 00:23.21 | fluffs | anyway, gone midnight here, need some sleep otherwise i'll end up toasting boards |
| 00:23.34 | LuitvD | fluffs: what boards? |
| 00:23.41 | LuitvD | fluffs: Neo boards? |
| 00:23.44 | fluffs | no |
| 00:23.58 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-246-246.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 00:23.59 | rwhitby | cjb: the last step in the kernel.bb is a uboot-mkimage - does that info help? |
| 00:24.00 | fluffs | need to do a bit of probing on a customer's board to find out what is going wrong |
| 00:24.11 | LuitvD | ah, lol |
| 00:24.13 | fluffs | nothing says instant smoke than an mis-placed probe |
| 00:24.21 | LuitvD | :) |
| 00:24.26 | cjb | rwhitby: oh, interesting. so I should have a uimage somewhere? where? |
| 00:24.33 | Elrond | fluffs - Did you look at my posting? Is it at least plausible/viable? |
| 00:25.09 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 images]$ ls |
| 00:25.09 | cjb | modules-2.6-200702281718-fic-gta01.tgz |
| 00:25.09 | cjb | openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070228171837.rootfs.ext2.gz |
| 00:25.12 | cjb | openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070228171837.rootfs.jffs2 |
| 00:25.12 | cjb | openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070228171837.rootfs.tar.gz |
| 00:25.15 | cjb | sjf2410 |
| 00:25.18 | cjb | zImage-2.6-200702281718-fic-gta01.bin |
| 00:25.20 | LuitvD | fluffs: I realized that yesterday when making two Li-Po contacts of a 30A capable battery touch the metal frame of my robot :) |
| 00:25.22 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:29.07 | LuitvD | hmm, I think I'll just stay off this channel for the rest of the week... to finish my robot... the technology seems to be pretty interesting... minor-prize winning level... |
| 00:29.40 | cjb | hmph |
| 00:29.43 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 moko]$ find . -name uImag\* |
| 00:29.43 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 moko]$ |
| 00:29.55 | LuitvD | lolz |
| 00:29.57 | Elrond | Hmm. |
| 00:31.00 | LuitvD | so... goodbye everyone... and don't be surprised of not seeing me here for a day or 2 :P |
| 00:31.12 | LuitvD | (well.... maybe just being Idle...) |
| 00:33.59 | cjb | rwhitby: guh. any ideas? it seems like the u-boot binaries weren't even built. |
| 00:34.10 | Elrond | cjb - Is the u-boot/tools/mkimage really called? |
| 00:34.15 | cjb | rwhitby: if you have a completed mokomakefile build, do you have any of this stuff? |
| 00:34.21 | cjb | u-boot/tools/mkimage doesn't exist. |
| 00:34.51 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 moko]$ find . -name mkimage |
| 00:34.52 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 moko]$ |
| 00:34.54 | rwhitby | cjb: oh, that was disabled in mokomakefile for a while cause uboot didn't build. |
| 00:35.11 | rwhitby | the current mokomakefile should build uboot and uboot-mkimage |
| 00:35.56 | rwhitby | Hmm - kernel build is failing now ... |
| 00:36.25 | cjb | ah! ok, that makes more sense. so I should pretty much restart a mokomakefile build? |
| 00:38.13 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54950A6B.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 00:39.12 | Elrond | Hmm, no idea. |
| 00:39.32 | cjb | rwhitby: in that case, perhaps I do the new mokomakefile up to the point where u-boot is built, then I run the conversion manually. |
| 00:39.54 | rwhitby | cjb: yep, that should work. |
| 00:40.03 | rwhitby | I'm looking at the kernel build failure too |
| 00:40.43 | cjb | woot. |
| 00:40.54 | Elrond | cjb - I don't know, if it's up to date, but this has some info on building the image by hand: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Migration_to_bad_block_tolerant_builds#Building_the_kernel |
| 00:41.00 | cjb | Elrond: yup. |
| 00:49.27 | Elrond | <-- needs to go to bed... |
| 00:49.45 | cjb | looks like the fun will happen tomorrow :) |
| 00:50.16 | cjb | rwhitby: unless there's a good way to go back to my old tree, with updated mokomakefile, and build u-boot? |
| 00:51.08 | rwhitby | cjb: a "make update-patches update-openmoko" would have done it. I guess I should even turn off update-openembedded until we move from a frozen rev to head |
| 00:51.16 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:51.31 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 00:51.45 | cjb | rwhitby: I still have the old tree, so can still do that. |
| 00:52.04 | cjb | but I only want to get u-boot, not start a new kernel build etc. |
| 00:55.24 | *** join/#openmoko neclimdu1 (n=necro@66-100-227-130-dyndsl.oplink.net) |
| 00:55.51 | Elrond | Night people. :-) |
| 01:03.45 | rwhitby | cjb: bitbake -b ..../uboot-svn.bb |
| 01:04.39 | jebba | bitbake uboot-gta01 |
| 01:04.55 | jebba | er.... maybe what rwhitby says ;) |
| 01:05.13 | rwhitby | jebba: same diff - yours will build any dependencies too |
| 01:05.32 | rwhitby | yeah, yours is better |
| 01:07.46 | cjb | hm, how should I be calling bitbake? |
| 01:07.55 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 bitbake]$ pwd |
| 01:07.55 | cjb | /mnt/filer/moko-20070227/bitbake |
| 01:07.55 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 bitbake]$ bin/bitbake uboot-gta01 |
| 01:07.55 | cjb | ERROR: Unable to open conf/bitbake.conf |
| 01:07.59 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:08.25 | rwhitby | cjb: source setup-env |
| 01:08.27 | rwhitby | cd build |
| 01:08.30 | rwhitby | bitbake .... |
| 01:08.51 | rwhitby | (starting from top-level dir) |
| 01:09.02 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 moko-20070227]$ source setup-env |
| 01:09.02 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 moko-20070227]$ cd build |
| 01:09.02 | cjb | [cjb@fc6 build]$ bitbake uboot-gta01 |
| 01:09.03 | cjb | ERROR: Unable to open conf/bitbake.conf |
| 01:09.05 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:09.39 | cjb | (the file exists) |
| 01:11.14 | rwhitby | hmm - that works here. |
| 01:11.31 | cjb | it does |
| 01:11.33 | cjb | stat64("conf/bitbake.conf", 0xbf9a2e28) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 01:11.33 | cjb | access("/mnt/filer/moko/build/conf/bitbake.conf", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 01:11.33 | cjb | access("/mnt/filer/moko/oe/conf/bitbake.conf", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 01:11.36 | cjb | access("/mnt/filer/moko/openembedded/conf/bitbake.conf", R_OK) = -1 ENOENT (No such file or directory) |
| 01:11.39 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 01:12.04 | rwhitby | it should find the one in openembedded/conf ... |
| 01:12.58 | cjb | oh! |
| 01:13.06 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@70-59-58-234.hlrn.qwest.net) |
| 01:13.07 | *** join/#openmoko pennystinker (n=jim@pool-71-172-46-222.nwrknj.fios.verizon.net) |
| 01:13.11 | cjb | the problem is that I moved the dir. that was silly. |
| 01:14.07 | jebba | cjb, i'm not sure how you have things set up (but /mnt makes me wonder). Just to let you know there are warnings in the OE wiki somewhere saying don't use symlinks as it breaks some stuff. Not sure what, but i've read that. ;) |
| 01:14.30 | cjb | sok, building now. |
| 01:14.47 | pennystinker | Just jumping in here: The web site still says the phone will be available in Feb. Obviously false. "Month or so" means what? March? April? thx |
| 01:14.47 | aloril | pennystinker: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once) |
| 01:14.55 | rwhitby | cjb: my kernel build failure was a local corrupted download problem - it may well build fine. |
| 01:15.06 | cjb | rwhitby: ah, cool. |
| 01:15.54 | ntnp_ | bonne nuit tlm, faites des bo reves :) |
| 01:22.32 | cjb | ok, u-boot's built. I should run whatever kernel.bb does to go from zImage to uImage. |
| 01:25.51 | cjb | .. I should find the kernel.bb. :) |
| 01:25.55 | pennystinker | botz cool! Thanks. Good luck guys can't wait to see this puppy! |
| 01:26.22 | rwhitby | cjb: have you used OpenEmbedded at all before? |
| 01:26.27 | cjb | Nope. |
| 01:29.50 | *** join/#openmoko jick (n=jick@222.92.90.170) |
| 01:32.06 | cjb | woo! I have a uImage. |
| 01:32.29 | cjb | Let's see if I can load it into RAM and boot from it. |
| 01:33.46 | sumasuma | right now i can buy the openmoko phone for development only ? |
| 01:36.09 | CoreDump|home | sumasuma: right now you can't buy it at all, see /topic |
| 01:38.29 | rwhitby | cjb: sweet |
| 01:41.13 | SpeedEvil | Under the SIM. |
| 01:41.18 | cjb | ah, thanks |
| 01:42.03 | sumasuma | CoreDump|home: there is nothing called FREE, even is someone developing applications for it ? |
| 01:43.17 | CoreDump|home | sumasuma: of course, the OM folks are kinda busy w/ it =) |
| 01:43.58 | sumasuma | CoreDump|home: thanks for the info. It also has GPS functionalities too ? |
| 01:44.11 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 01:44.20 | SpeedEvil | Look at the wiki. |
| 01:44.26 | CoreDump|home | sumasuma: indeed. wiki.openmoko.org has all the details |
| 01:46.22 | sumasuma | yes, just checked it. I could not see camera on it, does it has camera too ? |
| 01:46.28 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 01:46.32 | SpeedEvil | Nor wifi. |
| 01:46.57 | sumasuma | Looks bad for a modern phone ! |
| 01:47.14 | SpeedEvil | Don't buy it then. :) |
| 01:47.48 | sumasuma | SpeedEvil: if something is bad, really i will try to improve it to make it better, i will never go away ! |
| 01:48.02 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I like the styling. |
| 01:48.16 | sumasuma | Since it is not released, may be we can suggest the improvements in the hardware |
| 01:48.16 | SpeedEvil | I'd prefer a couple more buttons though. |
| 01:48.22 | rwhitby | sumasuma: openmoko is about the software, not the hardware. |
| 01:48.46 | rwhitby | sumasuma: please read the mailing list, the question about hardware has been done to death there. |
| 01:48.49 | sumasuma | rwhitby: if I need wifi, i can make it to work with software, without hardware ? |
| 01:49.13 | guaqua | dear darwin, where art thou |
| 01:49.23 | cjb | hmph. it said to hit a key to interrupt boot and I hit a bunch of keys and nothing happened. |
| 01:50.02 | sumasuma | i c |
| 01:50.12 | rwhitby | sumasuma: the simple fact is that NeoV1 has a certain hardware configuration, and many suggestions for improvements have been made. we're sick of discussing it, sorry. |
| 01:50.27 | rwhitby | the next phone will be different. and the one after that. |
| 01:51.05 | sumasuma | rwhitby: yes, understood. |
| 01:51.45 | cjb | and there'll be different phones too, even. if you think this one isn't useful, you're wrong; people aren't saying that about the iphone. |
| 01:52.10 | rwhitby | and things that aren't phones |
| 01:55.57 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 01:55.58 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 01:56.36 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04_ (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-216-248.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 01:56.54 | rwhitby | ftp.de.kernel.org keeps serving up bogus downloads. |
| 02:00.29 | cjb | grr. |
| 02:00.32 | cjb | pullcord:cjb~ % sudo cu -l /dev/ttyUSB1 |
| 02:00.32 | cjb | cu: open (/dev/ttyUSB1): Permission denied |
| 02:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=adutko@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net) |
| 02:02.40 | jebba | a |
| 02:04.37 | rwhitby | now that I have a good download of linux-2.6.20.1.tar.bz2, the kernel seems to be building ... |
| 02:04.50 | rwhitby | can anyone else confirm that http://ftp.de.kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.20.1.tar.bz2 gives broken downloads? |
| 02:05.06 | rwhitby | (if it does, we should patch the SRC_URI) |
| 02:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko vetetux (n=vetetix@107.24-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 02:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 02:10.04 | SpeedEvil | 48% [================> ] 20,898,984 1.30M/s ETA 00:16 |
| 02:10.21 | SpeedEvil | I wish this was my home connection. |
| 02:11.23 | SpeedEvil | bzip2 -t says ok. |
| 02:11.41 | SpeedEvil | you mean a broken internal archive? |
| 02:12.58 | cjb | gah. minicom doesn't send characters, and everything else says EACCES on /dev/ttyUSB1. |
| 02:16.13 | SpeedEvil | md5sum linux-2.6.20.1.tar.bz2 |
| 02:16.13 | SpeedEvil | 3288ad6c10ba89e85041a8416bd9644d linux-2.6.20.1.tar.bz2 |
| 02:16.23 | SpeedEvil | deleted now |
| 02:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko kmeyer (n=konrad@unaffiliated/konrad/x-000001) |
| 02:20.52 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: I get a small HTML file :-( |
| 02:21.43 | rwhitby | containing a refresh thingo point to exactly the same URL |
| 02:23.48 | *** join/#openmoko mschuoi (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 02:24.15 | SpeedEvil | I used wget |
| 02:24.38 | SpeedEvil | might you be behind a stupid proxy? |
| 02:26.04 | SpeedEvil | wget -S url to look at headers |
| 02:26.15 | cjb | guh, finally. at bootloader prompt. |
| 02:26.24 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 02:27.47 | rwhitby | cjb: woot |
| 02:28.24 | cjb | neat |
| 02:28.28 | cjb | GTA01Bv2 # fatls mmc 0 / |
| 02:28.29 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:28.29 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:28.43 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: yeah, I used wget too, and don't believe that I'm behind a proxy. |
| 02:30.58 | SpeedEvil | odd. |
| 02:33.14 | rwhitby | yeah. anyway, as it works for you I'll just put it down to a local issue and continue. |
| 02:33.26 | rwhitby | cjb: kernel build completed fine |
| 02:33.42 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: and now the kernel download works :-) |
| 02:33.48 | rwhitby | so it was a transient thing |
| 02:35.49 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 02:36.44 | cjb | bonus points for someone who can figure out how to load a kernel into RAM and jump to it. |
| 02:36.44 | cjb | GTA01Bv2 # fatload mmc 0 0x32000000 uImage |
| 02:36.45 | cjb | reading uImage |
| 02:36.47 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:36.49 | cjb | 1505720 bytes read |
| 02:36.51 | cjb | now, can I jump, or do I have to overwrite the installed kernel? 'cause, I don't have that much confidence in this one. |
| 02:36.56 | cjb | bah, let's try it. |
| 02:36.58 | cjb | hm |
| 02:37.00 | cjb | GTA01Bv2 # nand erase kernel |
| 02:37.02 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:37.04 | cjb | NAND erase: mtdids not defined, no default present |
| 02:37.06 | cjb | 'kernel' is not a number |
| 02:38.30 | cjb | hrr, nearly out of ideas. |
| 02:38.30 | rwhitby | cjb: sorry, I haven't used u-boot before :-( |
| 02:38.31 | cjb | maybe I have a pre-bbt after all or something and that's why it isn't recognising sections on the nand. |
| 02:39.05 | jebba | maybe it's called uImage? |
| 02:39.27 | jebba | `ext2ls mmc 0` total freakin' guess based on a screenshot in the wiki... |
| 02:39.38 | cjb | I'm following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot |
| 02:39.49 | cjb | jebba: I already pasted the mmc ls output, that went fine |
| 02:42.49 | cjb | this is to do with partitions/sections on the NAND not being picked up. |
| 02:44.29 | jebba | well, `printenv` may give you the line with mtdparts which may list where the kernel is (if at all) |
| 02:44.56 | cjb | interesting. |
| 02:44.59 | cjb | bootcmd=nand read 0x32000000 0x34000 0x200000; bootm 0x32000000 |
| 02:45.11 | cjb | I think I'm going to try upgrading u-boot. |
| 02:46.03 | *** join/#openmoko |PrinCo| (n=princo@84.123.42.243.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 02:46.32 | jebba | looks like you can tftp a kernel to it too... ala: `tftpboot 0x32000000` but that can be a PITA sometimes... ;) |
| 02:46.36 | rwhitby | cjb: if you load the kernel from mmc, could you just use bootm to execute it without writing it to nand? |
| 02:46.53 | cjb | rwhitby: that's what I'd like to do. do you know what the bootm command would be? |
| 02:47.07 | rwhitby | bootm 0x32000000 |
| 02:47.24 | rwhitby | see " Loading Kernel from NAND" in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot |
| 02:47.40 | jebba | `nand read 0x32000000 kernel` |
| 02:47.53 | rwhitby | that's to load it into ram from flash |
| 02:47.59 | rwhitby | cjb loaded it via serial |
| 02:48.04 | rwhitby | no, from mmc |
| 02:48.34 | cjb | good call |
| 02:48.34 | *** part/#openmoko |PrinCo| (n=princo@84.123.42.243.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 02:48.36 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:48.36 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:48.36 | cjb | GUNZIP ERROR - must RESET board to recover |
| 02:48.47 | cjb | turns out I don't know how to create uImages after all :) |
| 02:49.32 | kmeyer | lol |
| 02:52.03 | cjb | ah, I presumed a zImage was already gzipped. I guess it isn't? |
| 02:52.32 | kmeyer | lol |
| 02:52.48 | jebba | cjb: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/U-boot#Creating_bootable_images |
| 02:53.15 | kmeyer | isn't u-boot like submarine in german? |
| 02:53.17 | jebba | p'haps |
| 02:53.49 | *** join/#openmoko mschuoi (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 02:54.42 | cjb | hm |
| 02:54.45 | cjb | -rw-r--r-- 1 cjb cjb 1505656 Feb 28 12:30 zImage-2.6-200702281718-fic-gta01.bin |
| 02:54.45 | cjb | -rw-rw-r-- 1 cjb cjb 1495330 Mar 1 21:54 zImage.gz |
| 02:54.50 | cjb | looks pretty gzipped to me |
| 02:55.58 | kmeyer | lol |
| 02:56.16 | kmeyer | file zImage-2.6-200702281718-fix-gta01.bin |
| 02:56.44 | cjb | /mnt/filer/moko/build/tmp/deploy/images/zImage-2.6-200702281718-fic-gta01.bin: data |
| 02:57.02 | cjb | wacky. |
| 02:57.05 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:57.06 | kmeyer | weird |
| 02:57.14 | kmeyer | how about zImage.gz? |
| 02:57.14 | aloril | kmeyer: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once) |
| 02:57.27 | kmeyer | lol, seen the FAQ |
| 02:57.39 | cjb | correctly detects zImage.gz |
| 02:58.17 | jebba | cjb, did you do the gzipping of it? |
| 02:58.18 | kmeyer | ok |
| 02:58.46 | jebba | and did you build it with bitbake (one way would be like `bitbake gta01-kernel`) |
| 02:58.56 | cjb | jebba: mokomakefile created the zImage |
| 02:59.06 | aloril | hehe, 1-1 now for last 10 hours: 1 OK trigger, one useless ;-) |
| 02:59.07 | cjb | and would have created the uImage, but was disabled. |
| 03:00.01 | kmeyer | aloril: nah, it's nice |
| 03:00.04 | kmeyer | 2-0 |
| 03:00.47 | kmeyer | I'm reading the FAQ in its entirety now |
| 03:00.51 | rwhitby | cjb: did you kick off a kernel rebuild in the background? |
| 03:00.55 | jebba | because the zImage that is created by linux-gta01_2.6.20.1.bb goes thru all the `uboot-mkimage -A arm -O linux -T kernel -C gzip -a 30008000.........` rigamarole automatically. So it probably shouldn't be gzip'd manually after that (if htat's what you did) |
| 03:01.52 | rwhitby | NOTE: package openmoko-devel-image-1.0: completed |
| 03:02.07 | cjb | rwhitby: tell me how to? |
| 03:02.25 | rwhitby | cjb: you did the make update before? |
| 03:02.36 | cjb | no, didn't, sorry. |
| 03:02.38 | jebba | `bitbake linux-gta01` will give you a kernel |
| 03:02.46 | rwhitby | "make update-patches update-openmoko" |
| 03:02.57 | rwhitby | (that's fairly quick) |
| 03:03.09 | cjb | yup, done |
| 03:03.13 | rwhitby | then source setup-env |
| 03:03.15 | rwhitby | cd build |
| 03:03.21 | rwhitby | bitbake virtual/kernel |
| 03:03.40 | cjb | thanks! |
| 03:03.45 | rwhitby | (jebba: went one better than you with the virtual/kernel thing ;-) |
| 03:04.08 | jebba | ;) |
| 03:06.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r34 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Disable update-mtn for the moment, as it is slow and does nothing while we are at a fixed OE revision. |
| 03:07.04 | rwhitby | that'll speed up "make update" significantly |
| 03:08.43 | aloril | short interview of Sean, nothing new: http://gigaom.com/2007/03/01/openmoko-phone/ |
| 03:09.02 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r35 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Disable update-monotone too, as it depends on update-mtn. |
| 03:10.40 | aloril | (article and) interview with new info: http://voxilla.com/soapvox/2007/03/01/industry-disruption-really-168 |
| 03:11.29 | rwhitby | "make update" is now 20 seconds real time |
| 03:11.54 | rwhitby | cjb: I'm off to get some lunch |
| 03:12.16 | cjb | rwhitby: Righto. |
| 03:12.22 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 03:13.51 | jebba | aloril, voxilla article is nice... |
| 03:14.13 | aloril | umm.. not interview that second, but there is some new info about how it started |
| 03:19.03 | *** part/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 03:19.09 | aloril | wikified |
| 03:19.58 | cjb | ok, think I'll leave it here for tonight. I dunno how to solve the NAND erase thing. |
| 03:20.24 | jebba | no! we're all waiting! ;) |
| 03:20.37 | cjb | :) |
| 03:21.55 | aloril | well.. you need to turn protection off before you write some critical sectors (and if you fail, you brick your phone) |
| 03:22.33 | rwhitby | cjb: I was expecting the new kernel build to give you a file you could load from mmc and boot ... |
| 03:22.41 | cjb | rwhitby: It's still compiling. |
| 03:23.05 | rwhitby | ah |
| 03:23.37 | cjb | ah, there are steps for creating the kernel and jffs2 partitions if one is willing to erase the device. So my plan is: |
| 03:23.52 | cjb | * do kernel build, load/bootm kernel, if works, erase NAND completely, create partitions, write. |
| 03:24.19 | rwhitby | cjb: including setting it up for bbt? |
| 03:24.24 | cjb | but I have a morning meeting tomorrow so can't stay up tonight. :/ tomorrow it is. |
| 03:24.43 | rwhitby | cjb: thanks for sharing the journey with us |
| 03:24.46 | cjb | rwhitby: it should already be. |
| 03:24.48 | cjb | sure. |
| 03:25.01 | cjb | the build's finished; it did generate a uImage. |
| 03:25.04 | aloril | hmm... "128 MB SDRAM expandable to 4 GB" (by desoldering and soldering new?) |
| 03:25.06 | cjb | uImage-2.6-moko7-r1-fic-gta01.bin |
| 03:25.18 | jebba | aloril, i'm sure he confused that with SD... |
| 03:25.24 | jebba | i mean SDIO... |
| 03:25.33 | cjb | the SD's only expandable to 2G. |
| 03:25.42 | aloril | jebba: yeah, I guess so |
| 03:25.57 | jebba | though 4GB SDRAM would rock ;) |
| 03:26.04 | aloril | cjb: maybe, but maybe its just software upgrade to get to 4G and beyond .. |
| 03:26.33 | cjb | aloril: nah, think I read on the wiki earlier that it's a lack of hardware SDHC. |
| 03:26.35 | sumasuma | jebba: when there is USB available, i think we can 500G hard drive to the openmoko :) |
| 03:26.42 | jebba | cjb, he was quoting the voxilla article, which in general was fine (accurate) |
| 03:27.29 | rwhitby | cjb: I'll be looking for a MokoMakefile testimonial from you too ;-) |
| 03:27.57 | sumasuma | 4GB RAM, does wonders !, useful for video ipphone |
| 03:28.43 | SpeedEvil | cjb: it was me that added the 'probably not 4G wothough SDHC' comment to the wiki. I'm unsure it's accurate, as I've been unable to get anyone with SDHC specs... |
| 03:29.14 | SpeedEvil | 2G is certainly possible though. |
| 03:30.22 | cjb | I see. |
| 03:31.00 | *** join/#openmoko peeps (n=peeps@cpe-70-112-25-110.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 03:32.14 | sumasuma | Can i connect this phone to Data network and forward the call from data network to the GSM ? |
| 03:32.57 | jebba | sumasuma, like if you connected it to a USB hub which was connected to ethernet, you could do some asterisk magick and do a GSM/VoIP gateway, sure :) |
| 03:33.30 | rwhitby | that's what my phase-1 phone is destined to end up as ... |
| 03:33.44 | sumasuma | jebba, that is certainly possible, if possible within the device then absolutely wonderful |
| 03:34.03 | aloril | glove for gesturing: http://www.fibrestructures.com/innovations.html |
| 03:34.21 | jebba | yes, within the device. It's powerful enough for asterisk. I've done it with less (well, not to GSM, but with asterisk), such as on crappy linksys with openwrt |
| 03:34.49 | jebba | why do i think i saw that glove in 1992? ;) |
| 03:35.06 | SpeedEvil | And eye-tracker. |
| 03:35.08 | sumasuma | if we have asterisk running on it, then call management will be wonderful ! |
| 03:35.32 | rwhitby | nslu2 does asterisk for up to 4 lines easily. |
| 03:35.34 | jebba | well, i doubt it will come with asterisk, but it's certainly a possibilty. asterisk rocks. I'm surprised I don't see much discussion of it on the list. |
| 03:35.58 | SpeedEvil | Dig through the archives. |
| 03:36.03 | *** join/#openmoko LoDown (n=LoDown@dsl093-230-107.lou1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:36.09 | jebba | I did alaw to GSM and SIP to IAX2 conversion on calls on a linksys and it handled it no problem and the neo has more power for sure. |
| 03:36.11 | SpeedEvil | It was discussed earliwer IIRC. |
| 03:36.26 | jebba | SpeedEvil, ya, not that it's not mentioned at all, but i'd think it would be like every 5th email.... |
| 03:36.34 | cjb | rwhitby: just for you, I gave the zImage a try. it booted, but panicked trying to mount the nand. I guess I must've done something to the NAND partitioning. |
| 03:36.38 | sumasuma | jebba: i did that one on the http://www.neuros.com < --- a media player device, worked fine |
| 03:36.50 | jebba | http://www.blagblagblag.org/BLASTERISK <-- info on my free/open asterisk server if you'd like to poke at it. |
| 03:36.55 | SpeedEvil | (apologies for typos, I've got 5 second lag my shell server) |
| 03:37.23 | jebba | neuros.com dumped source at me, but it may be cuz i have javascript disabled. |
| 03:37.37 | SpeedEvil | It was discussed quite a lot earlier on, and I think everyone said all they had to say. |
| 03:37.50 | sumasuma | i c |
| 03:38.02 | rwhitby | cjb: booting the kernel is good enough for me. thanks! |
| 03:38.17 | jebba | ya, no kidding. kernel boots, now you can rest. ;) |
| 03:40.41 | cjb | also, I'm gonna have to start worrying about charging the battery soon. It doesn't seem to be happening when I just pull in a powered USB cable. |
| 03:41.01 | cjb | (we have two phones, and the other phone's battery is dead/not charging.) |
| 03:41.34 | SpeedEvil | Workaround. |
| 03:41.37 | cjb | does minicom have a "save everything in scrollbadk" command? |
| 03:41.45 | SpeedEvil | Do you have any nokia phone that takes a blc-5 |
| 03:41.58 | SpeedEvil | because the bateries are compatible. |
| 03:42.04 | SpeedEvil | and you can charge it in that. |
| 03:42.32 | cjb | oh, I'll just ask minicom to dump core and get scrollback that way. |
| 03:42.35 | jebba | heh |
| 03:43.37 | cjb | Linux version 2.6.20.1-moko8 (cjb@fc6.laptop.org) (gcc version 4.1.1) #1 PREEMP7 |
| 03:43.37 | cjb | CPU: ARM920T [41129200] revision 0 (ARMv4T), cr=c0003177 |
| 03:43.37 | cjb | Machine: GTA01 |
| 03:44.16 | jebba | cjb, if you could put up a whole dmesg somewhere (pastebin, your blog, whatever), that would rock. |
| 03:44.45 | cjb | jebba: I'll wait until it's actually booting, I think. |
| 03:46.29 | jebba | brainstorming: it would be "interesting" if the telephony part of the phone was all controlled by asterisk, and gsm via a chan_gsm or somesuch... |
| 03:47.18 | jebba | instead of having to write gsm applications, it could just leverage everything in asterisk. |
| 03:47.55 | SpeedEvil | Unfortunately the GSM has hardware limitations that you need to know of. |
| 03:48.06 | SpeedEvil | I mean in the app. |
| 03:50.08 | *** join/#openmoko jacobfan (n=jacob@fw.exoweb.net) |
| 03:52.11 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 03:53.07 | jebba | hey libervisco |
| 03:53.23 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 03:53.29 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1216 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/ (3 files): removed some gtk critical problem. |
| 03:57.56 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 03:59.05 | peeps | is it possible that openmoko could run skype software? |
| 04:00.14 | jebba | SpeedEvil, like the word "asterisk" appears zero times in the wiki (!) |
| 04:00.23 | rwhitby | peeps: only if skype open source it or port it |
| 04:00.33 | jebba | peeps, no, not unless the evilness @ skype ports it to openmoko |
| 04:00.52 | SpeedEvil | And if there was bluetooth/wifi |
| 04:01.33 | peeps | will openmoko allow closed source binaries to be installed, or is it open source only? |
| 04:01.33 | aloril | peeps: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once) |
| 04:01.49 | SpeedEvil | any biaries. |
| 04:01.50 | jebba | peeps, well, you'll have full access to it so you can install anything you want. |
| 04:02.41 | jebba | it's not 100% open source either. My understanding is the GSM and the GPS require some non-free software (correct me if i'm wrong) |
| 04:04.12 | SpeedEvil | wrong on GSM |
| 04:04.44 | jebba | well, doesn't it have a binary firmware or something? Is it all open? Hmm, perhaps i was mistaken. |
| 04:04.49 | SpeedEvil | and the GPS shhould be reverseable. |
| 04:05.04 | jebba | well, anything "should be reverseable"..... |
| 04:05.11 | SpeedEvil | the GSM is a sealed modee,' |
| 04:05.17 | SpeedEvil | modem. |
| 04:05.32 | SpeedEvil | you talk to it via AT commands. |
| 04:06.12 | SpeedEvil | the GPS is very simple hardware thoughm and all inputs are known. |
| 04:07.29 | jebba | it requires binary firmware from what i understand. |
| 04:07.51 | jebba | "Unfortunately we cannot provide many details on the GSM chipset due to very tight NDAs..." <-- from wiki |
| 04:09.01 | SpeedEvil | The firmware does not run on the host CPU. |
| 04:09.22 | SpeedEvil | It's just a serial modem. |
| 04:09.55 | DesktopMa | it's much less of an issue than people seem to make it |
| 04:10.08 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 04:10.21 | jebba | well, it runs on the device, no? |
| 04:10.29 | SpeedEvil | Especially as it'd be illegal to sell in many places if it was reely reprogrammable. |
| 04:10.45 | jebba | well, just sell it in free countries then. ;) |
| 04:10.49 | SpeedEvil | the GSM bit is a modem. It has its own CPU and flash. |
| 04:11.07 | *** join/#openmoko peeps (n=peeps@cpe-70-112-25-110.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 04:11.07 | SpeedEvil | Including the US, the UK, at least. (unable to sell) |
| 04:11.15 | *** join/#openmoko sean_chiang (n=sean@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 04:11.40 | jebba | i'd rather have a free device than one that can be sold in the US ;) |
| 04:11.40 | SpeedEvil | Dunno about .ar |
| 04:11.59 | SpeedEvil | How is it not free? |
| 04:12.05 | jebba | here you have to declare your fone when you cross customs (!) |
| 04:12.22 | SpeedEvil | Is you r computer not free as you don't have to have the firmware for the keyboard controller? |
| 04:12.54 | jebba | well, i mean in that it's a binary. Whether it's running on the CPU or some other chip on the device is a side issue. |
| 04:12.54 | jebba | SpeedEvil, yes. |
| 04:12.55 | jebba | this computer most definitely is not free (thinkpad t42 fwiw) |
| 04:13.41 | SpeedEvil | Well, anyway, phone with freely alterable GSM radio is not happening, at least mass market. |
| 04:14.23 | jebba | not yet. libgsmc ? |
| 04:15.17 | SpeedEvil | Not ever. |
| 04:15.24 | jebba | the frankenphone project looks pretty interesting from the over-difficult long acronym SVHMPC |
| 04:15.46 | SpeedEvil | In the UK for example, after the first user used it for criminal acts - changing the IMEI to forge another phone - |
| 04:16.29 | SpeedEvil | And the police tell you that they have, and that you should stop selling them, then you are guilty of supplying hardwqare used for tampering with phone netoworks. |
| 04:16.41 | SpeedEvil | If you continue to sell. |
| 04:16.47 | jebba | well, free software geeks have reverse engineered many chips. I don't expect neo's chip to be reverse engineered this year. But if the whole thing (e.g. open cell phones in general) catches on like sean is hoping, it'll likely happen. They must be far more basic that nvidia (nouveau) for example. |
| 04:16.56 | SpeedEvil | Absolutely no way any phone retailer would do htis. |
| 04:17.34 | SpeedEvil | Open GSM phones mean that people will buy them to steal service. |
| 04:17.47 | SpeedEvil | Absolutely guaranteed. |
| 04:18.02 | jebba | yet people forge caller ID and stuff like that with PCs, yet that can still be used. Plus the chip used by neo is likely in a number of other fones. |
| 04:18.15 | jebba | hmm, didn't think about that part of it. |
| 04:18.21 | SpeedEvil | It's not caller ID. |
| 04:18.26 | SpeedEvil | It's billing ingormation. |
| 04:18.28 | jebba | i mean the part people could use it for free service. |
| 04:18.45 | SpeedEvil | If you can alter the IMEI, and clone another phone, then the network cannot tell you from that phone. |
| 04:19.08 | jebba | yes, like MAC addresses, i suppose (/me notes he's heard IMEI for the first time right now...) |
| 04:19.27 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 04:19.39 | jebba | ein problem |
| 04:19.42 | SpeedEvil | And you can do stuff like jamming the network. |
| 04:20.07 | jebba | i guess we'll just have to open up the carrier side of the network too, so there's no one to charge us to make calls. |
| 04:20.26 | SpeedEvil | Doesn't work. |
| 04:20.33 | SpeedEvil | There is only a very finite amount of spectrum. |
| 04:20.52 | jebba | s/the fact/despite the fact |
| 04:21.00 | SpeedEvil | It has to be charged for, or it will be overrun. |
| 04:21.09 | jebba | oh, but there's /lots/ of spectrum. It's a big sky. |
| 04:21.17 | *** join/#openmoko sean_chiang (n=sean@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 04:21.19 | SpeedEvil | And you won't be abe to use the phone, as people with higher powered phones ovewhelm the bad. |
| 04:21.25 | SpeedEvil | No, there is not lots of specturm. |
| 04:21.32 | SpeedEvil | Not in usable bands. |
| 04:21.42 | jebba | look how much we do with wifi, and it's a teeeeeeeeeeeeeeeny slice of spectrum. |
| 04:22.11 | SpeedEvil | It's a relatively large chunk. |
| 04:22.14 | jebba | something like OLPC meshing + openmoko + voip, for example |
| 04:22.19 | SpeedEvil | a hundred megahertz or so at 2.5G. |
| 04:22.30 | SpeedEvil | Meshing doesn't work. |
| 04:22.38 | SpeedEvil | For this app. |
| 04:23.06 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that you can get interfered with by many sources that you can't recieve and decode, in the distance. |
| 04:23.08 | jebba | yes, latency gets a bit large. But that already sucks for cell. |
| 04:23.12 | SpeedEvil | This raises the noise floor. |
| 04:23.27 | SpeedEvil | And means that you can't talk to your neighbout. |
| 04:23.40 | SpeedEvil | It's not latency. |
| 04:23.48 | *** part/#openmoko sean_chiang (n=sean@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net) |
| 04:23.58 | jebba | seems it would be nice to get off the "carrier" angle of this whole thing though. |
| 04:24.22 | SpeedEvil | Consider also that if your average hop length is a thousand nodes, then the bandwidth you get of f each node is .1% onominal. |
| 04:24.32 | SpeedEvil | of nominal. |
| 04:24.40 | SpeedEvil | And that's best case. |
| 04:24.53 | SpeedEvil | In practice, you get choke points, where htere are only a few nodes. |
| 04:25.08 | SpeedEvil | and all the traffic in and out of the region wants to go to them. |
| 04:25.27 | SpeedEvil | It's not really simple. |
| 04:25.37 | jebba | woah, a thousand nodes... |
| 04:26.01 | SpeedEvil | A hundred meters per hop, that's only 100Km.l |
| 04:26.21 | SpeedEvil | Or more accurately, 60Km or so, as they won't all be in a nice line. |
| 04:26.33 | jebba | i'd think it would be much less than that. If you can sell phones that are like GSM+linksys and have them common, either you're hitting someone local more quickly or you're going LD via linksys/voip |
| 04:27.02 | jebba | so if you need to leave your city, it hits the net/voip. If it's 10 blocks away, mesh |
| 04:27.04 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - this is off topic and I'm tired. |
| 04:27.07 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
| 04:27.18 | jebba | ok. sorry. /me notes he knows he was talking a bit of nonsense... |
| 04:27.35 | jebba | but sometimes a bit of nonsense is needed... |
| 04:30.26 | *** join/#openmoko mschuoi (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 04:33.13 | kmeyer | what's the webbrowser in the openmoko qemu images? |
| 04:34.08 | jebba | kmeyer, which image? |
| 04:34.23 | kmeyer | hold on, lemme go find it again... the faq references it |
| 04:34.39 | jebba | ah, ya. ok lemme look |
| 04:34.52 | jebba | i did a different image that had dillo in it (and that could surf the net) |
| 04:34.53 | kmeyer | ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/developers/jebba/openmoko/qemu-r1190 |
| 04:35.04 | jebba | but that image using somehting "different" let me peek |
| 04:36.30 | jebba | i couldn't get it to connect to anything though. And "alt-p" which accesses it's menu (e.g. P underscored in the menu) actually switches windows (how alt-tab usually does) in matchbox. So you can't specify a URL with it |
| 04:36.55 | kmeyer | you can press alt+h and left left left from there |
| 04:37.11 | pjz | anyone got hints on solving me getting error messages about MATCHBOX_PANEL ? |
| 04:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54952121.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:37.41 | jebba | pjz, what's the error.... |
| 04:38.09 | peeps | can/will openmoko support java? |
| 04:38.32 | peeps | didn't see it in the wiki |
| 04:38.44 | pjz | jebba: trying to build the stuff to run on the PC, autoconf says checking for MATCHBOX_PANEL... configure: error: *** Required Matchbox Panel 2 >= 0.1 not installed *** |
| 04:38.55 | kmeyer | peeps: there is effort to |
| 04:39.02 | jebba | peeps, there's no reason it can't, but there has been little mention of it. The project is more in the gtk direction. |
| 04:39.35 | pjz | jebba: on an ubuntu system with libmatchbox-dev and matchbox-panel and such all installed |
| 04:39.41 | jebba | pjz, yes. i've heard that one before, so you're not alone there. Are you using mokomakefile? |
| 04:40.02 | pjz | jebba: yeah, I used it to check out the source I think, but it also failed in some way I don't recollect now |
| 04:40.59 | pjz | jebba: actualy, wait, for this I'm following the wiki page |
| 04:41.00 | jebba | pjz, i suggest using mokomakefile as it has patches to fix some common errors people encounter. |
| 04:41.25 | pjz | jebba: but it builds an image for the phone, right? it doesn't build apps to run on the local box |
| 04:41.52 | pjz | jebba: I'm looking to get enough of an environment together that I can write a toy app for the phone |
| 04:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 04:42.08 | jebba | pjz, correct, by default it does. Perhaps you can change file "build/conf/local.conf" to your target ARCH |
| 04:42.33 | rwhitby | you just change MACHINE to "x86" in conf/local.conf to build for a PC |
| 04:42.36 | jebba | pjz, the other thing is that you don't necessarily need to target the arm architecture. |
| 04:43.02 | jebba | since it's basically gtk which you'll see on a debian/fc/gentoo box, you can just develop locally for i386 or whatever. |
| 04:44.09 | pjz | jebba: well, right, but I wanted to look at the openmoko panel and such and try and get it running under Xoo/Xnest so I could get the screen size correct |
| 04:44.54 | rwhitby | pjz: have you followed the wiki page for that? |
| 04:45.12 | rwhitby | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Openmoko_working_on_host_with_Xoo |
| 04:45.15 | jebba | pjz, try Xephyr instead of Xoo. Xoo takes up way to much screen that doesn't help much. |
| 04:46.02 | pjz | rwhitby: no, hadn't read that one yet; figured compiling was the first step; I'll try it. |
| 04:46.08 | pjz | jebba: oh? I'll look at it |
| 04:46.14 | jebba | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Xephyr |
| 04:46.34 | rwhitby | pjz: yep, compiling is the first step on that page :-) |
| 04:47.47 | jebba | what's all that `sudo` stuff for that Xoo page. That shouldn't be necessary... |
| 04:58.02 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 04:58.29 | aloril | peeps: java unlikely bundled with P1 at end of this month, but likely you can install it later |
| 05:00.18 | peeps | are most of you here developers? what parts of the system do you develop? |
| 05:02.21 | aloril | jebba: yeah, that glove does look quite old |
| 05:03.04 | jebba | peeps, we're mostly lurkers waiting for gear. ;) But there are a handful of people that are devs and have gear in their hands. |
| 05:03.53 | pjz | best estimate on hardware is still end of the month? |
| 05:03.54 | peeps | Is it possible to develop with just emus? Is the framework built yet? |
| 05:04.07 | jebba | emus? |
| 05:04.15 | jebba | counter |
| 05:04.16 | aloril | P0: 2 days 06:55:44 (2.289 +-2.0 days); P1: 24.289 +-10.0 (see faq) (443) |
| 05:04.21 | peeps | lol, emulators, VMs i mean |
| 05:04.22 | pjz | peeps: it's standard linuxish framework, you can build from source on other hardware with 100% compat |
| 05:05.03 | jebba | peeps, you can develop on your own i386 laptop or whatever. Just develop a gtk application for 480x640. That's the fastest way. |
| 05:05.18 | pjz | peeps: easier to build for a local box with the hardware constraints in mind (screensize, etc) and then rebuild for the platform in the future |
| 05:05.34 | jebba | they have some libraries you can snag as well (e.g. accessing gsm) |
| 05:06.09 | peeps | i'm a developer, just doing jsp/struts for my day job, but never tried open source/linux programming |
| 05:06.29 | peeps | i just found out about this project yesterday and am pretty excited |
| 05:06.44 | jebba | hmm. http://fsf.org may give you a good intro. and see /topic about this particular project. |
| 05:08.20 | peeps | actually, i did some "linux programming" in college, but nothing with a gui ;-) |
| 05:08.23 | peeps | thanks for the info |
| 05:10.04 | aloril | peeps: you can develop with plain Linux too, that's what I do |
| 05:11.06 | jebba | i use an emulator poke XorA|gone |
| 05:11.17 | peeps | i mean, i never wrote an app that had a gui (time for me to learn the GTK library) |
| 05:11.56 | kmeyer | GTK is a bitch to learn |
| 05:11.57 | kmeyer | have fun :P |
| 05:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko PasqualeBF (n=pat@rrcs-67-78-131-202.se.biz.rr.com) |
| 05:12.05 | peeps | doh |
| 05:12.19 | jebba | i'm curious if they plan to do pyGTK. OLPC is heading that way if i understand it correctly. That would lower the programming bar somewhat... |
| 05:13.05 | pjz | I bet they do |
| 05:13.12 | pjz | or rather: I bet someone does it |
| 05:13.26 | aloril | python is already in OE, should be just install |
| 05:13.37 | kmeyer | OE? |
| 05:13.41 | aloril | (including gtk bindings) |
| 05:13.54 | aloril | openembedded.org |
| 05:14.03 | pjz | OD is OpenEmbedded |
| 05:14.10 | pjz | er, OE not OD |
| 05:14.19 | pjz | someday I'll learn to type |
| 05:14.25 | pjz | I've gotten old and slow I think |
| 05:14.43 | jebba | python-pygtk.bb and python-pygtk2.bb both exist in openembedded, so that pretty much answers it |
| 05:15.09 | kmeyer | what does openembedded offer over a more conventional source? |
| 05:15.49 | jebba | kmeyer, what do you mean? openmoko is built upon openembedded. openembedded is a free software project for embedded devices using the linux kernel. |
| 05:17.19 | pjz | wow, mokomakefile is busted. looks like file-4.18.tar.gz isn't available anymore |
| 05:17.24 | aloril | hmm.. compilation distribution/programs for all kinds of device/feature combinations |
| 05:17.54 | kmeyer | jebba: err |
| 05:17.58 | jebba | pjz, that wouldn't be in mokomakefile actually. It would be in openembedded/packages/file/file.bb |
| 05:18.00 | kmeyer | what's .bb? |
| 05:18.01 | kmeyer | :P |
| 05:18.07 | jebba | it is a common issue (upstream moves .tar.gz) |
| 05:18.16 | aloril | you need to crosscompile unless you happen to have similar hardware or compile in Neo1973 itself |
| 05:18.44 | pjz | jebba: how do I get the .bb for the new version? |
| 05:18.51 | pjz | jebba: or does it exist? or what? |
| 05:19.16 | pjz | jebba: looking in the ftp dir, there's now v4.19 and v4.20 there |
| 05:19.20 | jebba | kmeyer, .bb = bitbake now rtfm ;) http://bitbake.berlios.de/manual/ |
| 05:19.37 | kmeyer | kk |
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| 05:20.09 | pjz | jebba: can I just copy the 4.18 one to a new name? |
| 05:20.37 | jebba | pjz, in the .bb file you can s/1.01/1.02 or whatever and cross your fingers, sure. it's your system ;) |
| 05:21.03 | pjz | jebba: or if I can manually find the right file, where do I put it? |
| 05:21.57 | jebba | pjz, in whatever you defined as "sources" (e.g. ~moko/sources). You also need to `touch` a file in build/tmp/stamps/ for "fetch". That's how it keeps track of each completed step. |
| 05:22.00 | pjz | jebba: oh, nm; I've got an old tree I can look at |
| 05:22.10 | pjz | jebba: oh, thanks |
| 05:27.06 | rwhitby | pjz: OE should have downloaded the tarball from downloads.openmoko.org/sources |
| 05:27.19 | rwhitby | can you pastebin the log of the file package build? |
| 05:29.24 | pjz | rwhitby: yeah, I just copied sources/* over so it won't re-download it all |
| 05:30.10 | pjz | jebba: btw, you don't have to touch the stamps/ file, it will recognize that the file exists |
| 05:35.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r36 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (openmoko-mirrors.patch series): Added openmoko-mirrors.bbclass, and enable it's use in distro/include/openmoko.inc |
| 05:37.03 | rwhitby | reported as http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=227 |
| 05:37.21 | rwhitby | that should fix all occurances of future upstream file moves |
| 05:42.01 | aloril | bundling 512MB micro SD means you can use more of NAND for apps |
| 05:44.25 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r37 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/ (openmoko-dialer.patch series): Removed patches that are not required any more. |
| 05:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko motov3 (i=motov3@S01060080c6f8f411.vs.shawcable.net) |
| 05:45.11 | motov3 | anyone know where I can find information on razr v3 modding? |
| 05:45.27 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p54951C20.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 05:45.41 | rwhitby | motov3: perhaps in an IRC channel where that is on-topic ... |
| 05:46.04 | rwhitby | (unless you're intending to port openmoko to it ...) |
| 05:46.11 | motov3 | rwhitby: i know nothing of this place, i was sent to "irc" from a friend.. im just trying to find a place :P |
| 05:46.26 | rwhitby | motov3: this aint the place then |
| 05:46.27 | motov3 | where someone can offer me a tad of insight, nothing more |
| 05:46.43 | motov3 | well, I don't suppoe you know of such a place? |
| 05:46.43 | aloril | motov3: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once) |
| 05:47.24 | rwhitby | ~botsnack |
| 05:47.24 | apt | rwhitby: aw, gee |
| 05:47.34 | motov3 | alright |
| 05:47.35 | motov3 | thanks |
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| 06:03.25 | aloril | reading logs, it seems autofaq reply during intense discussion was quite appropriate |
| 06:05.15 | jebba | your bot rocks ;) |
| 06:05.45 | aloril | unfortunately another nick was known so it didn't trigger ;-) |
| 06:05.55 | jebba | lol |
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| 06:13.04 | jebba | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr_Quintron |
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| 07:04.16 | gbv22 | is the openmoko the same as the neo1973? |
| 07:04.47 | aloril | faq? |
| 07:04.47 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 07:04.52 | kmeyer | that's the hardware it'll run on |
| 07:04.54 | Elixir- | gbv22: Neo is the hardware. OpenMoko is a software project. Check the FAQs |
| 07:05.00 | aloril | openmoko==software, neo1973==hardware |
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| 07:06.05 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 07:06.06 | gbv22 | oh ok...i understnd...but openmoko is designed to run with the neo1973 only? |
| 07:06.06 | aloril | gbv22: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once) |
| 07:06.18 | Elixir- | Seriously, read the FAQ |
| 07:06.21 | gbv22 | ok |
| 07:06.26 | Elixir- | Its amazingly informative! |
| 07:06.33 | gbv22 | lol..k |
| 07:06.36 | gbv22 | sorry |
| 07:06.42 | Elixir- | NP =] |
| 07:08.55 | gbv22 | is it safe to assume that when it is mass marketed the price will fall below 350? |
| 07:09.10 | aloril | gbv22: people have run at least part of openmoko at other devices too already |
| 07:09.22 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@feldconf.feld.cvut.cz) |
| 07:09.25 | gbv22 | oh ok |
| 07:09.28 | Elixir- | I'm mainly concerned that I won't have a cellular carrier =/ |
| 07:09.29 | aloril | gbv22: no idea about mass marked prices |
| 07:11.05 | gbv22 | maybe i'm not in the right channel..but im asking anwyas....is there a way to use linux on a regular (say nokia) cellphone? |
| 07:11.10 | gbv22 | :) |
| 07:11.39 | aloril | not currently, but see N770, N800 |
| 07:11.48 | kmeyer | so once openmoko works... how do you use it with a cellular carrier? |
| 07:12.30 | Elixir- | libgsm can interpret AT commands |
| 07:12.41 | Elixir- | So if your GSM network isn't locked out then it will talk on it |
| 07:12.55 | Elixir- | It would be fun to create my own personal WAN here in Austin =P |
| 07:13.04 | Elixir- | Find some other nerds who live downtown |
| 07:13.14 | gbv22 | lol |
| 07:13.15 | kmeyer | GSM network? |
| 07:13.15 | kmeyer | :P |
| 07:13.40 | aloril | kmeyer: yeah, about any GSM network should work with Neo1973, just insert your SIM |
| 07:13.50 | Elixir- | I live 4 blocks from my job so I wouldn't need to cover a lot of area ;) |
| 07:13.53 | kmeyer | what's GSM? |
| 07:14.13 | aloril | kmeyer: see wikipedia |
| 07:14.13 | kmeyer | I thought wifi wasn't included Elixir- |
| 07:14.36 | kmeyer | ok |
| 07:14.39 | Elixir- | It isn't. I meant GSM |
| 07:14.44 | Elixir- | Even though its illegal >=/ |
| 07:15.05 | gbv22 | i'm just curious...since we are able to run linux on ipods and other random hardware..why can't we do the same with a regular cellphone? what limits us? |
| 07:15.10 | kmeyer | it's illegal to setup your own gsm net? |
| 07:15.26 | kmeyer | weird hardware that varies a lot gbv22 |
| 07:15.34 | kmeyer | ipods are all same (among a generation) |
| 07:15.50 | Elixir- | Its illegal to broadcast in the licensed spectrum |
| 07:16.23 | gbv22 | kmeyer: true...but if it can be done for ipods..why cant it be done for a particular phone model? |
| 07:16.44 | gbv22 | what is really involved in getting linux to run on any hardware.. |
| 07:16.51 | gbv22 | :) |
| 07:17.26 | Elixir- | The vendors design the hardware to prevent people from putting on their own firmware/software |
| 07:17.40 | gbv22 | oh...i c |
| 07:17.47 | aloril | gbv22: see http://www.openezx.org/ (OpenMoko will run on those phones probably reasonably soon) |
| 07:17.51 | Elixir- | The carriers have highly restrictive agreements that keeps the "riff-raff" off their networks |
| 07:18.00 | Elixir- | Which is important because telecoms have the shittiest fucking networks |
| 07:18.07 | gbv22 | haha |
| 07:18.13 | Elixir- | Except for the IRS apparently ;) |
| 07:18.32 | peeps | hey Elixir- I live in austin |
| 07:18.54 | Elixir- | Represent |
| 07:18.59 | peeps | hehe |
| 07:19.16 | Elixir- | Where are you at? I'm 4 blocks from whole foods downtown |
| 07:19.25 | gbv22 | U of T austin in the hizzouse! :P |
| 07:19.32 | peeps | north austin, mopac & duval |
| 07:19.43 | Elixir- | nice. I used to live up there |
| 07:20.00 | neclimdu1 | hehe, I used to work at that HEB |
| 07:20.27 | gbv22 | UT isnt all tht great...:P |
| 07:20.34 | Elixir- | Better than ACC |
| 07:20.39 | kmeyer | lol |
| 07:20.45 | gbv22 | hmm..true |
| 07:20.46 | kmeyer | UW ftw |
| 07:22.01 | gbv22 | **gbv22 feels tht college is overrated..:P...but needs a job so he is pursuing a degree |
| 07:22.16 | Elixir- | So will there be a carrier here in Austin that we can use the GSM part of the Neo1973 on? |
| 07:22.24 | Elixir- | gbv22: Ditto |
| 07:22.42 | peeps | according to the wiki cingular can support it |
| 07:22.49 | kmeyer | and tmobile |
| 07:23.19 | Elixir- | Cingular towers have been getting overloaded a lot these days |
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| 07:23.51 | peeps | i get the worst reception in my apt |
| 07:23.59 | peeps | happens with any carrier though :( |
| 07:24.48 | peeps | you Austin guys working on developing some apps for openmoko? |
| 07:24.56 | neclimdu1 | I had really good luck with ATT when I was in Austin. That too bad Cingular isn't keeping it up |
| 07:25.19 | Elixir- | I want some yea |
| 07:25.29 | Elixir- | But I want easy-skinning too |
| 07:26.31 | Elixir- | Depending on if I can get t-mobile to support my GSM device then I will probably start writing stuff |
| 07:27.02 | Elixir- | However I would work less on openmoko and more on a robust UI |
| 07:27.04 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 07:27.35 | peeps | what do you mean? isn't the UI just another part of openmoko |
| 07:28.12 | peeps | the way I understand it, openmoko is the equivalent of a distro? |
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| 07:37.11 | Elixir- | Yea |
| 07:37.20 | Elixir- | I'd basically just want my own WM |
| 07:37.43 | Elixir- | I don't like the "standard" PDA interface |
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| 08:07.27 | hrw | Elixir-: define 'own' |
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| 08:16.25 | xkr47 | yo morning! |
| 08:16.32 | aloril | (changed so that faq link triggers on *first* question if just asked during first 15 min and only once for that nick) |
| 08:16.36 | aloril | hi xkr47 |
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| 08:35.45 | Psi | i never understand people asking that question |
| 08:36.19 | aloril | hmm.. maybe should have question "Q: Does OpenMoko run any other phone?" I think iPaq and some HTC are at least partial answers, but ..? |
| 08:38.45 | CM | aloril: Definitely, add that. :) |
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| 08:42.49 | kmeyer | java's already in the faq |
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| 08:49.58 | aloril | kmeyer: yeah, it was just added ;-) |
| 08:50.30 | kmeyer | I meant before 20 minutes ago |
| 08:50.36 | kmeyer | I saw it somewhere.. |
| 08:52.14 | CM | kmeyer: I searched for it in the wiki |
| 08:52.34 | CM | kmeyer: But just remove my entry if you find a duplicate |
| 08:52.44 | kmeyer | nah |
| 08:52.46 | kmeyer | too much work |
| 08:52.49 | CM | :P |
| 08:54.51 | hrw | phase0 situation is interesting.. |
| 08:54.54 | hrw | counter |
| 08:54.54 | aloril | P0: 2 days 03:05:05 (2.129 +-2.0 days); P1: 24.129 +-10.0 (see faq) (444) |
| 08:55.22 | hrw | aloril: update counter - phase0 phones can be sent next monday |
| 08:56.02 | xkr47 | can or will ?-) |
| 08:56.37 | xkr47 | (sorry) |
| 08:56.52 | rwhitby-treo | I hope mine was sent today and arrives monday :-) |
| 08:56.59 | hrw | xkr47: depend on phase0 dev choose |
| 08:57.39 | xkr47 | openmoko should be sold on play.com, smooth delivery :) |
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| 09:02.04 | aloril | hrw: counter is assuming that, though problem is what timezone? ;-) |
| 09:02.23 | xkr47 | :) |
| 09:02.28 | aloril | lower limit is when 2007-03-03 starts on earth (+2h) |
| 09:02.42 | aloril | upper limit is when 2007-03-05 ends on earth |
| 09:03.50 | aloril | anyway, it will in 3h hit lower limit and start to move ETA forward (and decrease uncertainty) ;-) |
| 09:03.59 | xkr47 | lol |
| 09:04.04 | aloril | (and counter then moves at half speed) |
| 09:04.14 | hrw | 4-6 weeks for next one |
| 09:04.36 | aloril | hrw: up to 6 weeks? |
| 09:04.50 | aloril | early April -> during first 2 weeks of April? |
| 09:06.06 | hrw | producing this modified hardware will take us |
| 09:06.07 | hrw | another four to six weeks |
| 09:06.21 | aloril | ok, I'll update that |
| 09:06.43 | hrw | phase0 version has two serious bugs |
| 09:06.48 | aloril | I'll decrease P0 uncertainty too |
| 09:07.13 | hrw | so all developers are asked do they want phase0 phone or want to wait for free one from phase1 |
| 09:10.27 | XorA | hrw: but all devs who opt for phase zero also get a phase one |
| 09:10.29 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 09:10.46 | hrw | XorA: yes |
| 09:10.57 | hrw | XorA: thats what I chosen |
| 09:11.06 | XorA | same here, that way I can get started |
| 09:12.07 | XorA | pH5: depends on your customs, some people will get reamed for VAT of 350$ plus a nasty fee |
| 09:12.18 | pH5 | ouch |
| 09:12.32 | hrw | here customs take 22% VAT |
| 09:12.42 | hrw | but as company I can get that VAT back |
| 09:12.54 | kmeyer | company producing under £10k, no? |
| 09:13.28 | hrw | kmeyer: Poland has other limits iirc |
| 09:13.43 | kmeyer | oh, I was thinking england |
| 09:16.52 | rwhitby | luckily Australia has no customs or duty until the value hits AUD$1K |
| 09:17.12 | rwhitby | So I'll gladly take all the Phase-1 phones that the other devs don't want :-) |
| 09:17.13 | hrw | rwhitby: and is closer to Taiwan |
| 09:17.25 | rwhitby | hrw: that's why I'm hoping for a Monday delivery |
| 09:17.36 | hrw | rwhitby: monday->monday? |
| 09:18.04 | rwhitby | hrw: I gave details over 24 hours ago, I'm hoping it got shipped in those 24 hours, and will arrive monday :-) |
| 09:18.13 | hrw | rwhitby: ah.. |
| 09:18.17 | kmeyer | and USD$350 isn't AUD$1k? :P |
| 09:18.23 | hrw | rwhitby: here this mail hit spambox |
| 09:18.27 | hrw | ~change 350 usd to aud |
| 09:18.46 | kmeyer | kidding |
| 09:18.47 | sumasuma | cool |
| 09:18.59 | sumasuma | ~change 350 usd to inr |
| 09:19.02 | kmeyer | one day I will have $350 |
| 09:19.06 | kmeyer | rupis? |
| 09:19.07 | kmeyer | heh |
| 09:19.13 | kmeyer | rupee, close enough |
| 09:19.28 | kmeyer | ~change 350 usd to won |
| 09:19.30 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1217 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c_mci.patch: * re-add missing Makefile hunk to actually build the driver |
| 09:19.35 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 09:19.37 | sumasuma | yes, indian average spending for phone is 25K Rupees |
| 09:20.01 | sumasuma | *mobile phone |
| 09:20.06 | kmeyer | ok |
| 09:20.27 | sumasuma | is there is any change for descrease in price startegy ? |
| 09:20.33 | sumasuma | *chance |
| 09:20.36 | sumasuma | *decrease |
| 09:20.46 | sumasuma | for the openmoko |
| 09:21.04 | kmeyer | not till mass production |
| 09:21.42 | kmeyer | night folks |
| 09:21.58 | sumasuma | i c |
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| 09:27.27 | sumasuma | anyone guide me is there is a fc6 binaries of toolchain for openmoko ? |
| 09:27.56 | sumasuma | *if |
| 09:27.58 | aevin | good morning, mokoers! |
| 09:28.33 | aevin | ~change 350 usd to birr |
| 09:28.43 | rwhitby-treo | sumasuma: have you read the wiki about that? |
| 09:29.06 | aevin | sweet. it parsed it to the right currency :) |
| 09:29.11 | sumasuma | rwhitby-treo: it said release files are under http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/ |
| 09:29.21 | sumasuma | but could not reach it |
| 09:29.31 | rwhitby-treo | search for mokomakefile |
| 09:29.49 | tigert | does moko have mokomake? :) |
| 09:30.12 | rwhitby-treo | no, just normal make and bitbake |
| 09:30.18 | tigert | "moko clean; moko; moko install" :) |
| 09:30.55 | rwhitby-treo | alias make moko |
| 09:31.37 | rwhitby-treo | sumasuma: you build your own toolchain at the moment |
| 09:32.34 | sumasuma | rwhitby-treo: looks the process is easier, i will give a try now |
| 09:32.52 | sumasuma | rwhitby-treo: thanks for the instructions |
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| 09:40.28 | aloril | counter |
| 09:40.28 | aloril | P0: 3 days 02:19:31 (3.097 +-1.0 days); P1: 35.097 +-10.0 (see faq) (445) |
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| 10:51.19 | florian | <PROTECTED> |
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| 11:11.04 | aevin | hi florian |
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| 11:26.50 | balrog-kun | hi |
| 11:27.05 | balrog-kun | has the mmc driver been tested? |
| 11:27.05 | aloril | balrog-kun: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 11:27.55 | stefan_schmidt | aloril: nice autotrigger |
| 11:28.23 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: As far as I know they work with the microSD cards already. So yes. |
| 11:28.24 | SpeedEvil | There is no way without extra hardware (cable mod) to fit an mmc. |
| 11:29.06 | stefan_schmidt | ah, ok. balrog-kun you mean mean microSD or really MMC? |
| 11:29.41 | SpeedEvil | it's micro-sd in thre neo. |
| 11:29.42 | balrog-kun | stefan_schmidt: i mean the Linux mmc driver, shouldn't it drive the microSD? |
| 11:29.57 | SpeedEvil | yes, it works. |
| 11:30.06 | SpeedEvil | there is an SD driver frtom tomtom IIRC |
| 11:30.14 | balrog-kun | i'm seeing write errors with both an own kernel and a stock one from buildhost.openmoko.com |
| 11:30.26 | balrog-kun | reading is fine |
| 11:30.38 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: mircroSD is *real* SD. I'm not aware of mmc card in micro format. |
| 11:30.58 | SpeedEvil | Oh - hardware. |
| 11:31.12 | balrog-kun | stefan_schmidt: mmc is the name of the subsystem in Linux, it drives all the different types of cards |
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| 11:31.30 | SpeedEvil | I see no erratas on SD performance on the wiki. |
| 11:31.41 | SpeedEvil | And nobody else has mentioned it. |
| 11:31.46 | balrog-kun | i was just wondering if anyone has really tried it |
| 11:31.46 | stefan_schmidt | balrog-kun: So if you just refer to the subsystem name, then the answer is yes, too. |
| 11:31.51 | SpeedEvil | Perhaps you've got a bad SD? |
| 11:31.59 | SpeedEvil | hopefully. |
| 11:32.54 | balrog-kun | it doesn't look like a card issue, i tried debugging the kernel and there indeed is one place where it gets values that i think are wrong |
| 11:34.48 | SpeedEvil | Have you a spare micro-sd to try it with? Though it may be unlikely to work. |
| 11:36.03 | balrog-kun | well, this is inside an emulator, it's an emulated card that conforms to the specs (i think, because it works with different machines) |
| 11:36.06 | alphaone | balrog-kun: On my X40 all cards I tried worked great. |
| 11:36.15 | alphaone | balrog-kun: What device are you using? |
| 11:36.17 | balrog-kun | oh ok |
| 11:36.30 | balrog-kun | i don't have the real device, only an emulator |
| 11:36.36 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 11:36.47 | SpeedEvil | Well, real micro-sd works. |
| 11:36.52 | SpeedEvil | At least somewhet. |
| 11:37.03 | SpeedEvil | Are these consistent or occasional errors? |
| 11:37.51 | balrog-kun | have you tried booting something from the card by any chance? |
| 11:37.51 | balrog-kun | they're consistent, probably the emulated mmc host |
| 11:37.51 | balrog-kun | 's fault |
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| 11:56.58 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1218 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/s3c_mci.patch: * merge s3cmci driver with 2.6.20 dma and mmc api changes |
| 12:00.30 | aloril2 | counter |
| 12:00.31 | aloril | P0: 2 days 23:59:29 (3.000 +-1.0 days); P1: 35.000 +-10.0 (see faq) (446) |
| 12:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko nroej (n=joern@heaven.cyphertext.de) |
| 12:00.34 | nroej | hello |
| 12:01.43 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 12:01.43 | SpeedEvil | Hello. |
| 12:02.10 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-138-2.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 12:02.33 | aloril2 | still have to catch up logs, but I think page in wiki about microSD cards said that there are currently problems in some non Sandisk cards (page refered frm hardware page) |
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| 12:03.52 | SpeedEvil | Well - it's emulator anyway. |
| 12:04.02 | SpeedEvil | So it's not a 'real' SD that's having problems. |
| 12:10.51 | aloril2 | yeah, but that wiki page was/is about real cards on Neo1973 (I think it was u-boot related, but might remember wrong) |
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| 12:14.00 | balrog-kun | the issue is that the driver wants to write more data with one command than it really has in the buffer at a given moment, so it thinks that some data had not been written after the hw finishes writing the contents of the buffer, that's how i'm interpreting it but it may be my wrong understanding of the specs |
| 12:14.17 | balrog-kun | the emulator attempts to be 1:1 with the hardware and real SD cards |
| 12:14.48 | balrog-kun | i haven't tried the u-boot's mmc driver, but i think it does only reading |
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| 12:52.10 | koen | alphaone, stefan_schmidt: http://www.openembedded.org/~koen/a780/ |
| 12:52.25 | koen | todays images should have the opentapi tweaks |
| 12:52.45 | univac | balrog-kun: olali ;] |
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| 12:55.23 | stefan_schmidt | koen: thanks |
| 12:55.38 | koen | although I did use the wrong channel :) |
| 12:55.52 | koen | too many #open<foo> |
| 12:56.06 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
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| 13:03.50 | Jkx | Hi guys, I'm working in a french high school, and we are looking for good plateform to work on phone. I think OpenMoko looks great for ours needs (give some works to the students around a fancy phone). I'm wondering if we can obtain a test plateform ? |
| 13:03.51 | aloril | Jkx: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 13:05.19 | stefan_schmidt | Jkx: You should contact the coreteam about this question. Moment, I search you the email address |
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| 13:05.35 | stefan_schmidt | Jkx: coreteam@openmoko.org |
| 13:05.53 | guaqua | i'd think waiting for the phase 1 would be wise, or even the consumer model |
| 13:06.00 | stefan_schmidt | Jkx: But please be patient. They have a load of 300% atm |
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| 13:06.39 | stefan_schmidt | Jkx, guaqua: Indeed. You can wait until end of the month and just buy one of them for testing. |
| 13:07.10 | guaqua | i don't think i'll be getting one before the consumer model |
| 13:07.23 | guaqua | that doesn't prevent me from participating, though :) |
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| 13:07.58 | Jkx | stefan_schmidt: ok that's look fine. Perhaps my students can work with the emulator until march |
| 13:08.48 | Jkx | I guess most of you are working with the emulator (qemu or xos) ? |
| 13:10.04 | stefan_schmidt | Jkx: For GUI only stuff I would work with x86 build and xoo |
| 13:12.25 | aloril2 | and that faq link and links from it answer many questions |
| 13:13.29 | Jkx | ok, let's give it a try. I will ask my students to works with qemu, and hope to buy a phone on March to do some real-life test |
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| 13:29.45 | alphaone | koen: Thanks |
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| 13:34.31 | pjz | who has commit rights to openembedded? |
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| 13:35.49 | zecke | pjz: the question is: Who can push to a certain server |
| 13:36.14 | pjz | zecke: ah, right, monotone, I forgot |
| 13:36.51 | pjz | zecke: anyway, basically: bug in the js package, it doesn't detect that the archive is already in sources/, it tries to download it again anyway |
| 13:37.54 | pjz | zecke: workaround is, of course, to touch build/tmp/stamps/target-arch/js-1.5-r0.do_fetch |
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| 13:39.08 | zecke | pjz: well, detecting that the source has been fetched is not a property of a package but the system (e.g. bitbake) |
| 13:39.13 | zecke | pjz: so why is it failing for js? |
| 13:40.24 | zecke | pjz: it can only fail, if fetching fails (at least this is what I believe) |
| 13:40.24 | pjz | zecke: no idea, but after I touched the do_fetch, the rest of it worked |
| 13:40.24 | pjz | zecke: well, right, fetching it failed becasue it had moved from the place it was trying to fetch it |
| 13:40.25 | pjz | zecke: but I had previously downloaded it and put a copy of what was downloaded into sources/ |
| 13:40.39 | zecke | pjz: so you propose to change the source uri, as it is currently wrong? |
| 13:41.07 | pjz | zecke: no; I propose to make it not try and fetch the archive if it already exists in sources/ locally |
| 13:41.29 | pjz | zecke: which is what the rest of the packages already do |
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| 13:41.56 | zecke | pjz: sorry, I think if fetching fails, the reason of this failure should be fixed |
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| 13:42.17 | pjz | zecke: well, sure, that too |
| 13:42.32 | pjz | zecke: but also it shouldn't try and refetch if the archive already exists locally |
| 13:42.48 | zecke | pjz: if you fix the root cause, the other symptoms will go away as well |
| 13:43.03 | pjz | zecke: but it's bad to force a refetch when it's not needed |
| 13:43.08 | pjz | zecke: doubles the bandwidth |
| 13:47.37 | pjz | hrm, now mtpaint is failing |
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| 14:27.57 | quitte | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:32.26 | Elrond | counter |
| 14:32.26 | aloril | P0: 2 days 21:27:33 (2.894 +-1.0 days); P1: 34.894 +-10.0 (see faq) (447) |
| 14:34.28 | SpeedEvil | pjz seemed to be getting a transient failure on the mirror. |
| 14:34.44 | holyduck | with my finger on the trigger. i run dot slash configure. yo this package is big. but _my package_ is bigger |
| 14:34.45 | holyduck | :D |
| 14:34.59 | SpeedEvil | Where fetching the file resulted in a copy of a HTML redirect to the same file. |
| 14:35.31 | holyduck | im bored |
| 14:35.50 | Stephmw | holyduck: doesn't take all that long |
| 14:35.53 | holyduck | true |
| 14:35.56 | holyduck | its just annoying |
| 14:36.22 | holyduck | like one group purposly broke all mplayer versions before 1.0rc1 and also vlc |
| 14:36.38 | XorA | holyduck: strange sub channels? |
| 14:36.55 | holyduck | more like 256 bits of random text at the end of lines scaled to 0 |
| 14:37.04 | holyduck | wich borked the old mplayer and vlc |
| 14:37.11 | XorA | wierdos |
| 14:37.16 | holyduck | indeed |
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| 14:50.51 | cjb | mornin'. |
| 14:52.38 | koen | cjb: good morning |
| 14:56.41 | pjz | anyone else having trouble building mtpaint? |
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| 15:04.13 | balrog-kun | are the latest kernel images built without mmc support? |
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| 15:15.26 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:16.22 | theholyduck | well im gonna wait till september |
| 15:17.04 | xyrouz | theholyduck: I think Im gonna wait till september too... Cant wait :) |
| 15:17.42 | theholyduck | i sorta wanted a greenphone. till i saw this |
| 15:17.55 | theholyduck | well my birthday is in september i might get one then |
| 15:18.01 | theholyduck | as in a present |
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| 15:19.08 | prpplague | theholyduck: me too, specially since the neo1973 uses the same processor as our product line at work |
| 15:19.27 | hrw | hi prpplague |
| 15:21.47 | theholyduck | :O |
| 15:23.59 | prpplague | hrw: howdy |
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| 15:24.06 | prpplague | hrw: whats cookin today? |
| 15:24.40 | hrw | prpplague: some gstream stuff |
| 15:24.41 | hrw | gstreamer |
| 15:24.48 | prpplague | ahh |
| 15:24.52 | hrw | my ps/2 keyboard connected via ps/2 -> usb adapter reset from time to time |
| 15:26.31 | buz | i've seen all kinds of weird behavior with those adapters |
| 15:26.46 | buz | including not working at all and working perfectly |
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| 15:30.52 | koen | hrw: there isn't any gstreamer 0.8 in OE anymore |
| 15:31.21 | hrw | koen: I know. but is in .dreambox and tmbinc was talking about this branch |
| 15:31.30 | hrw | koen: and .dreambox is OE too |
| 15:31.42 | koen | but he only use .10 |
| 15:31.46 | koen | uses* |
| 15:32.05 | hrw | sure |
| 15:32.27 | koen | later all |
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| 16:14.32 | PasqualeBF | morning. |
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| 16:32.39 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1219 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-today/ (14 files in 3 dirs): * Import of the Today application |
| 16:35.47 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1220 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/openocdcmd.pl: |
| 16:35.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: openocdcmd.pl: ignore errors from closing the pipe, because telnet reports |
| 16:35.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: remote close as an error |
| 16:36.14 | aloril | yet another idea: when you get near your PC and its been a while (day for example) it automatically backups using bluetooth |
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| 16:37.22 | PasqualeBF | thats a great idea |
| 16:37.52 | aloril | (backup==rsync, so should be pretty fast) |
| 16:38.31 | aloril | hmm.. maybe there should be some revisions actually, so that it doesn't automatically backup faulty version over OK version ;-) |
| 16:38.33 | PasqualeBF | rsync has saved me many times. |
| 16:39.18 | PasqualeBF | ahh, I was thinking you were talking about phone config // settings, etc. you wana back up the entire phone? |
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| 16:39.35 | aloril | yes |
| 16:39.45 | aloril | why limit? |
| 16:39.57 | PasqualeBF | mkdir date, and be good to go. |
| 16:40.53 | aloril | well, backing up 2GB every day without incremental stuff would consume a bit space |
| 16:41.48 | PasqualeBF | *nods* |
| 16:42.23 | buz | rsync --archive / --exclude=/music |
| 16:42.28 | buz | should be quick enough |
| 16:42.49 | PasqualeBF | heh |
| 16:43.00 | aloril | or some method to do rsync so that backup responds to latest but previous version is saved is incremental diff |
| 16:43.10 | buz | rdiff-backup |
| 16:43.15 | buz | or just rsync with hardlinks |
| 16:43.16 | aloril | (maybe keep full backup monthly or few times/year) |
| 16:43.25 | buz | (i dont trust rdiff-backup) |
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| 16:47.30 | PasqualeBF | bbl, gotta go make money to pay bills n stuff. |
| 16:47.31 | _llll_ | there are plenty of solutions to this problem for general computers, i dont think the phone is any different |
| 16:47.32 | aloril | _llll_: yup, that's to good point of it being just linux |
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| 16:57.32 | aloril | kid (<3 years) proof Neo would be nice |
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| 16:59.06 | aloril | especially if it was reasonably cheap: ten you would have unlimited amount of toys limited only by your imagination |
| 16:59.50 | aloril | s/ten /then / |
| 17:00.59 | prpplague | aloril: http://www.elinux.org/wiki/PixterMultimedia |
| 17:01.07 | prpplague | aloril: runs linux very nicely |
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| 17:08.57 | aloril | prpplague: thanks, interesting (though seems to be >=4 years) |
| 17:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti541210a080-11984.bb.online.no) |
| 17:11.38 | aloril | hmm.. what about cube (with rounded edges) and 6 touch screens? possibilities.. |
| 17:11.47 | theholyduck | :O |
| 17:12.03 | theholyduck | that 1 phrase almost turned me on |
| 17:12.19 | loufoque | a phone in cube form? |
| 17:12.28 | aloril | enough sturdy and good scratch proof coating so that you can let children of any age play with it |
| 17:12.42 | _llll_ | why would you want children to play with a phone? |
| 17:12.48 | aloril | loufoque: no, child toy |
| 17:13.10 | aloril | loufoque: umm.. it can be anything, but software should be tuned to age of children playing with it |
| 17:13.21 | aloril | it could be fun even for baby with suitable software |
| 17:13.53 | theholyduck | aslong as it has apt im happy |
| 17:13.53 | theholyduck | :P |
| 17:14.06 | aloril | thedaniel: of course ;-) |
| 17:14.19 | theholyduck | thedaniel? |
| 17:14.19 | theholyduck | eh |
| 17:14.33 | theholyduck | im guessing you typed the and auto completed |
| 17:14.33 | aloril | theholyduck: and bluetooth, etc.. so you can update it while baby is playing with it |
| 17:14.35 | theholyduck | and then failed |
| 17:14.40 | aloril | yes |
| 17:14.52 | theholyduck | shock proof too? |
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| 17:14.59 | aloril | yes |
| 17:15.06 | theholyduck | could be interesting |
| 17:15.09 | theholyduck | and expensive |
| 17:15.11 | theholyduck | to build |
| 17:15.18 | theholyduck | not just 1 but 6 touch screens? |
| 17:15.19 | theholyduck | ;D |
| 17:15.30 | aloril | whatever you need so that you can sell it <= 3 year olds |
| 17:15.38 | aloril | ie.. enough sturdy so that they can't break it |
| 17:15.41 | theholyduck | :) |
| 17:15.54 | theholyduck | i got this old lappy wich is pretty much a tank |
| 17:15.55 | loufoque | just give a real computer to your kid |
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| 17:16.03 | theholyduck | its fallen 2-3 ms |
| 17:16.05 | theholyduck | into asphalt |
| 17:16.08 | theholyduck | still works |
| 17:16.10 | loufoque | teach him how to hack the kernel at 3 |
| 17:16.16 | aloril | 6 might be a bit extreme though, maybe just 2 (or 2 big ones and 4 smaller ones at sides) |
| 17:16.35 | theholyduck | if it still runs when i get kids |
| 17:16.37 | theholyduck | they gonna get it |
| 17:16.37 | theholyduck | :P |
| 17:16.45 | aloril | loufoque: umm.. how can baby play with real computer? |
| 17:17.26 | theholyduck | i could use a computer since the age of 4 |
| 17:17.30 | theholyduck | well use and use |
| 17:17.39 | theholyduck | but atleast start up stuff and play games |
| 17:17.45 | balrog-kun | aloril: my dropping it on the floor etc |
| 17:17.55 | balrog-kun | by |
| 17:18.19 | loufoque | aloril: he could chat with other kids on myspace |
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| 17:19.23 | aloril | loufoque: "goo" "goo" ;-) |
| 17:21.21 | aloril | hmm.. or several of those... add robots with touch screens, etc.. moving by themself, etc.. |
| 17:22.26 | theholyduck | :P |
| 17:22.41 | theholyduck | i saw this package in the repository the other day |
| 17:22.42 | theholyduck | 2 sec |
| 17:22.48 | theholyduck | it was this teach kids to make programs |
| 17:22.49 | theholyduck | thingy |
| 17:24.26 | theholyduck | Little Wizard |
| 17:24.29 | theholyduck | thats what it called |
| 17:25.05 | hrw | cu |
| 17:26.12 | aloril | here is one idea: how person/child could learn to play Go by just themselves: http://londerings.novalis.org/wlog/index.php?title=Go_Teaching_Program |
| 17:29.36 | _llll_ | is that implemented? |
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| 17:30.46 | aloril | engines are, GUI not, I hope to get some of GUI done before I get P1 Neo |
| 17:31.33 | aloril | there are all kinds of engines from almost random to GNU Go level (UCT Monte carlo and GNU Go being strongest) |
| 17:31.46 | aloril | and all historical GNU Go versions too |
| 17:32.08 | aloril | well.. there are Go GUI's but none for gtk2+ only |
| 17:32.22 | aloril | (except one unfinished one) |
| 17:33.34 | _llll_ | looks pretty cool anyway |
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| 17:35.34 | dneary | aloril: cgoban is pretty nice |
| 17:35.58 | dneary | What age do kids start learning go effectively? |
| 17:36.11 | dneary | I have an almost-5 year old |
| 17:36.16 | dneary | And he's definitely too young |
| 17:36.24 | theholyduck | well i guess it depends on the kid too |
| 17:36.27 | theholyduck | id say |
| 17:36.28 | aloril | dneary: I think 4 year old can learn |
| 17:36.34 | dneary | But I'm wondering if he mightn't be able to learn the rules between now & next year |
| 17:36.38 | aloril | dneary: and with program like this, maybe 2-3 year old |
| 17:37.10 | theholyduck | like i had learned how to fireup and use a dos computer by the age of 4 |
| 17:37.11 | aloril | dneary: I think chikun was something like 4-5 dan at age of 6 |
| 17:37.26 | theholyduck | so learning somthing |
| 17:37.48 | theholyduck | is fully posible |
| 17:37.48 | dneary | sheesh |
| 17:37.48 | theholyduck | sure go |
| 17:37.49 | theholyduck | is a bit harder |
| 17:37.49 | theholyduck | than using a pc |
| 17:37.51 | aloril | dneary: yeah, cgoban is option, its even more bare than gtk2+ though |
| 17:38.03 | dneary | Some say that children get better at go quicker than adults, because they don't yet reason, they play by feeling |
| 17:39.21 | aloril | theholyduck: realizing capturing is not that hard |
| 17:39.40 | theholyduck | indeed |
| 17:39.49 | aloril | theholyduck: going beyond that to actual beginner level is harder than learning chess rules |
| 17:40.01 | theholyduck | but start early. even learning only a little is better than not learning anything i guess |
| 17:40.26 | SpeedEvil | That does rather presume that learning Go is a useful goal. |
| 17:40.33 | theholyduck | hm |
| 17:40.36 | theholyduck | well i find it pointless |
| 17:40.38 | aloril | and until person is at beginner level (roughly KGS 20k) (s)he is a bit boring, so machine would be quite suitable opponent to get to that level |
| 17:40.40 | theholyduck | but thats just me |
| 17:40.57 | aloril | (adult can get to KGS 20k level in maybe 10-30 games) |
| 17:41.52 | aloril | SpeedEvil: learning to think is useful goal, could add programming, whatever later, Go is example of simple to start, but very deep complexity |
| 17:42.18 | theholyduck | why not just start with like programing? |
| 17:42.26 | theholyduck | little wizard is pretty simple |
| 17:42.32 | theholyduck | i just checked it out |
| 17:42.43 | theholyduck | even a little kid ought to be able to use it to a certain extent |
| 17:43.04 | aloril | Go is fun when you gain levels ;-) |
| 17:43.17 | theholyduck | whenever i wanna use my brain a bit |
| 17:43.29 | theholyduck | i just go into political discusion mode with myself |
| 17:43.43 | theholyduck | make a nazi. a commie, and a capitalist in my brain |
| 17:43.47 | theholyduck | and have them argue |
| 17:43.56 | theholyduck | or somthing like that |
| 17:44.06 | aloril | hehe |
| 17:44.08 | theholyduck | thats how i pass time. discuss with difrent me's |
| 17:44.37 | theholyduck | my political viewpoint is usualy what annoys the person im talking with the most |
| 17:45.37 | theholyduck | hm |
| 17:45.40 | theholyduck | im boreed |
| 17:45.56 | theholyduck | somone needs to get me a 100/10mbit line PRONTO |
| 17:47.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1221 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-core.patch gta01-pcf50606.patch): |
| 17:47.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * move 'gta01-pm-gps' and 'gta01-pm-bt' to the pcf50606 driver, where |
| 17:47.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: they can be put into the correct place in the device tree for suspend/resume |
| 17:47.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * declare them as static in that process |
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| 18:03.08 | aloril | yet another drooler ;-): http://www.oreillynet.com/etel/blog/2007/03/openmoko_1.html |
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| 18:11.10 | buz | hehe i would buy the 6 screen phone |
| 18:11.15 | buz | for kids of any age, indeed |
| 18:11.37 | Elrond | Evening people. |
| 18:12.42 | buz | i wonder if all the neo drool will make the oceans rise, poor polynesians |
| 18:18.09 | Elrond | Is it me, or is openmoko.org slowish? |
| 18:23.51 | loufoque | Elrond: so you left Rivendell? |
| 18:25.00 | balrog-kun | come visit Moria |
| 18:25.29 | Elrond | loufoque - No. Rivendell got dsl. ;) |
| 18:27.53 | parag0n | i wish they'd let people preorder for phase 1 :/ |
| 18:28.44 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:28.50 | Elrond | parag0n - They don't even have the P0 phones ready- := |
| 18:29.23 | parag0n | werent they meant to ship 2 weeks ago? :] |
| 18:29.31 | LuitvD | I can't even run openmoko on my robot ... :( |
| 18:33.01 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@ip-58-28-158-238.ubs-dsl.xnet.co.nz) |
| 18:33.01 | Elrond | counter |
| 18:33.01 | aloril | P0: 2 days 17:26:58 (2.727 +-1.0 days); P1: 34.727 +-10.0 (see faq) (448) |
| 18:33.19 | Elrond | one month to go... |
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| 18:36.27 | aloril2 | with 6 screen phone you have unlimited amount of differently colored cases (includings ones that swap themself at 30fps) ;-) |
| 18:36.50 | Elrond | 6 screen phone? |
| 18:36.50 | aloril2 | small idea: pre ring alarm |
| 18:37.13 | balrog-kun | cube desktop switch, a step further |
| 18:37.24 | balrog-kun | *switcher |
| 18:38.08 | aloril2 | Elrond: scroll back: touch screen in all 6 sides so that phone practically covered (scratch proof of course) |
| 18:38.36 | Elrond | hehe ;) |
| 18:39.09 | Elrond | I'm fine with one side. But "scratch proof" would be really important. I have no idea, how I should take the neo with me otherwise. |
| 18:40.29 | Elrond | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Icon-Style1.png The Terminal icon looks a bit weird to me. |
| 18:42.58 | LuitvD | lol |
| 18:43.04 | LuitvD | not really a terminal... |
| 18:43.31 | LuitvD | some computer with unknown small form-factor |
| 18:44.05 | don-o | counter |
| 18:44.05 | aloril | P0: 2 days 17:15:54 (2.719 +-1.0 days); P1: 34.719 +-10.0 (see faq) (449) |
| 18:44.21 | don-o | cool. :) |
| 18:44.48 | LuitvD | don-o: nobody knows if it'll be postponed again though... |
| 18:45.14 | don-o | LuitvD: yeah, slip is always a possibility. |
| 18:45.23 | don-o | LuitvD: is there a page that describes the differences between p0 and p1? |
| 18:45.41 | LuitvD | don-o: dun-o |
| 18:46.24 | don-o | LuitvD: LOL |
| 18:48.05 | atla | is openmoko driven by some payed developers or completly community based? |
| 18:48.05 | aloril | atla: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 18:48.14 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:48.36 | don-o | omg thats cool |
| 18:49.04 | LuitvD | aloril has some nice scripts :) |
| 18:49.32 | atla | will the neo be available in germany? |
| 18:50.23 | LuitvD | atla: yes, all around the world... |
| 18:50.33 | don-o | atla: its a GSM phone. im sure they'll ship anyways |
| 18:50.37 | don-o | atla: er, anywhere. |
| 18:51.17 | LuitvD | lol, nicy typo :P |
| 18:51.45 | LuitvD | atla: but this is the openmoko IRC channel... the Neo is just a product of FIC, produced for openmoko, but not by openmoko |
| 18:51.54 | Elrond | atla - You might only have fun with customs. :-| |
| 18:52.21 | atla | yeah |
| 18:52.23 | LuitvD | yup, that's one concern... customs and import taxes |
| 18:52.40 | atla | how complete is openmoko as of now? |
| 18:52.57 | Elrond | atla - It start to mature. |
| 18:53.00 | LuitvD | well... look at the Wiki for that :) |
| 18:53.11 | LuitvD | it's getting better all the time |
| 18:53.52 | Elrond | I think, they want to send a working phone for P0. |
| 18:54.08 | LuitvD | lol, nobody touched my wiki page yet :) |
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| 18:56.18 | Elrond | loufoque - Which one should we touch? ;) |
| 18:57.05 | Elrond | Huh. |
| 18:57.05 | *** join/#openmoko Taras_Bulba (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
| 18:57.16 | loufoque | Elrond: touch whatever you want |
| 18:57.16 | Elrond | LuitvD - Which one should we touch? ;) |
| 18:58.35 | *** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07CEB3.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:58.46 | LuitvD | Elrond: my User page :) |
| 18:59.43 | Elrond | LuitvD - Okay, that's no-touch-area. |
| 18:59.49 | cbpage | heh... since the neo's compatible with the bl-5c you could buy (in the us) a dirt cheap tracfone and harvest it's battery ;) |
| 18:59.56 | LuitvD | Elrond: are you sure? :? |
| 19:00.19 | LuitvD | Elrond: you mean ethically, or technically? |
| 19:00.28 | Elrond | LuitvD - by convention, I think, yes. |
| 19:00.37 | Elrond | ethically. |
| 19:00.45 | LuitvD | not on my page :P |
| 19:01.03 | LuitvD | I want you to (plural) |
| 19:01.11 | LuitvD | I don't want to write about myself... |
| 19:01.42 | cjb | is anyone who understands u-boot around? :) |
| 19:02.03 | Elrond | cjb - I only got the basics.... |
| 19:02.22 | Elrond | LuitvD - You should mark your page as "may be edited by others" then. ;) |
| 19:02.41 | LuitvD | it is... |
| 19:02.43 | cjb | I'm confused 'cause the wiki talks about these "mtdparts", but my u-boot build doesn't seem to know anything about them. |
| 19:02.57 | cjb | and I can't work out how they're defined/specified on a fresh NAND, even. |
| 19:03.23 | LuitvD | cjb: the manual is always around: http://www.denx.de/wiki/DULG/Manual |
| 19:03.41 | cjb | Yeah, but the question I have is more of a Moko question. |
| 19:03.47 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 19:04.06 | LuitvD | that + wiki can't answer your question? |
| 19:04.18 | cjb | Since this whole mtdparts thing seems to be novel somehow. |
| 19:04.42 | cjb | LuitvD: like I said, I can't work it out from the wiki. |
| 19:04.47 | Elrond | cjb - """Those calculations have been implemented as u-boot "dynpart" command. Once you issue "dynpart", the partition configuration is put in the "mtdparts" environment variable. If you "saveenv" the environment, it is saved into the non-volatile environment partition.""" |
| 19:05.00 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 19:05.15 | LuitvD | Elrond: where did that come from? :P |
| 19:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 19:05.54 | balrog-kun | cjb: try "help mtdparts" in u-boot commandline |
| 19:06.08 | balrog-kun | provided you have neo1973 patches applied |
| 19:06.30 | balrog-kun | most of them are not upstreamed yet |
| 19:08.09 | Elrond | I hope they move upstream soon. |
| 19:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 19:13.19 | cjb | balrog-kun: thanks, that is helpful. it tells me that I don't have mtdids defined. |
| 19:14.02 | *** join/#openmoko grgehunt (n=greg@88-108-51-93.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:14.26 | rwhitby | morning |
| 19:16.06 | Elrond | cjb - Shouldn't "dynpart" load them? |
| 19:16.29 | Elrond | (I still wonder, how one sets the partitions up) |
| 19:16.31 | NTNP | cjb => mtdparts is just a variable for mtd |
| 19:17.47 | cjb | Unknown command 'dynpart' - try 'help' |
| 19:17.47 | cjb | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.37 | NTNP | your have to define it like : |
| 19:19.38 | NTNP | setenv mtdparts mtdparts=physmap-flash.0:256k(uboot)ro,64k(environ)ro,640k(kernel),7mb(rootfs) |
| 19:19.42 | NTNP | sth like that |
| 19:20.09 | cjb | But I don't know what those offsets are. What if my NAND has bad blocks? The offsets would change. |
| 19:20.53 | cjb | I think the answer might be that my version of u-boot is too old. |
| 19:21.09 | cjb | Since dynpart is unknown. |
| 19:22.03 | NTNP | what is ur version u-boot ? I'm newbie on moko. I have just worked around a little bit with u-boot |
| 19:22.04 | aloril | NTNP: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (Hopefully this link answers your question. This autotrigger for new nick and question during first 15 minutes done only once.) |
| 19:22.31 | Elrond | *G* |
| 19:25.03 | cjb | Hah. Battery just ran out, it seems. |
| 19:25.10 | cjb | I don't know how to charge it. |
| 19:25.58 | Elrond | connect the usb port to a desktop PC. done. |
| 19:26.08 | don-o | usb charging++ |
| 19:26.31 | Clint | haha |
| 19:26.45 | Clint | i remember what happened when i tried that |
| 19:28.20 | cjb | Elrond: that would be great, but it doesn't actually work. |
| 19:29.40 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti541210a080-7707.bb.online.no) |
| 19:30.34 | Elrond | cjb - What does "neo1973 charger status" give in u-boot? |
| 19:30.56 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 19:32.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1222 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-backlight.patch: |
| 19:32.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: drivers/video/backlight/gta01_bl.c (gta01bl_probe): moved hardware |
| 19:32.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: initialization to new function gta01bl_init_hw |
| 19:32.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: drivers/video/backlight/gta01_bl.c (gta01bl_init_hw): added #if 1 ... #endif |
| 19:32.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: around mysterious initialization code |
| 19:32.07 | CIA-7 | openmoko: drivers/video/backlight/gta01_bl.c (gta01bl_resume): call gta01bl_init_hw |
| 19:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 19:34.32 | *** join/#openmoko dyrne (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 19:45.28 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 19:45.30 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 19:45.49 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 19:47.10 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.1.19) |
| 19:47.40 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081DCE7.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 19:52.33 | PBeck | hm i have a question, what can be refreshed at the hardware refresh in june? Give it infos? Can be wifi added? |
| 19:53.15 | Magon | PBeck: it seems more like bug-fixing |
| 19:53.28 | stefan_schmidt | PBeck: Read the slides from Sean's fosdem talk |
| 19:53.52 | stefan_schmidt | PBeck: The update CPU and *perhaps* add something new. |
| 19:56.37 | *** part/#openmoko Spooktino (n=x6Th8maf@74-140-44-176.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 20:02.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1223 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01/ (defconfig-2.6.20-fic-gta01 defconfig-2.6.20.1-fic-gta01): |
| 20:02.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * four VT devices are enough |
| 20:02.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * include QT2410 button driver |
| 20:02.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * disable legacy pty's |
| 20:02.06 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * make sure MMC core is part of linked kernel |
| 20:02.28 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1224 10/trunk/oe/conf/machine/fic-gta01.conf: we want s3cmci to be part of the root filesystem |
| 20:03.06 | don-o | stefan_schmidt: got a URL? |
| 20:04.07 | stefan_schmidt | don-o: http://openmoko.com/files/OpenMoko_Neologics.pdf |
| 20:04.31 | don-o | stefan_schmidt: thx |
| 20:05.34 | *** join/#openmoko theholyduck (n=theholyd@ti541210a080-7707.bb.online.no) |
| 20:07.35 | PBeck | thanks Magon and stefan_schmidt |
| 20:09.03 | PBeck | hm stefan_schmidt where can i read about the hardwarerefresh? |
| 20:09.08 | theholyduck | hm |
| 20:09.12 | PBeck | i look at the slides .. |
| 20:09.14 | theholyduck | ubuntu feisty fawn is pretty decent |
| 20:09.45 | theholyduck | im testing it on my lappy |
| 20:10.06 | LuitvD | yeah :) |
| 20:10.09 | LuitvD | running it here |
| 20:10.22 | LuitvD | (as my only OS at the moment) |
| 20:10.31 | LuitvD | feisty fawn herd 4 |
| 20:10.34 | theholyduck | ditto |
| 20:11.12 | LuitvD | the only problem I seem to have is the absence of window borders in beryl and compiz |
| 20:11.24 | LuitvD | but I don't care, coz' beryl and compiz are quite useless |
| 20:12.00 | don-o | woah these slides take a left turn on page 9 about a line-drawing language |
| 20:15.13 | PBeck | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:15.13 | PBeck | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:15.14 | PBeck | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:15.44 | PBeck | hm something else everyone has been asking for, can only be wifi? |
| 20:15.46 | SpeedEvil | It's the teleporter, isn't it! |
| 20:16.01 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe the beer tap. |
| 20:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54953CB8.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 20:17.39 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: oh that can it be too :P |
| 20:17.54 | PBeck | i like teleporters. I like to go to Rio? :P |
| 20:18.19 | PBeck | thats a german advertising ^^ |
| 20:19.55 | don-o | page 40 of the slides has the best photo of the neo1973 ive seen to date |
| 20:22.06 | PBeck | don-o: thats very very nice |
| 20:22.24 | PBeck | i think you are right |
| 20:22.45 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 20:23.04 | PBeck | i hope that many photos came online, when phase1 is started |
| 20:23.30 | LuitvD | s/came/come/ |
| 20:23.45 | PBeck | argh sorry ;) |
| 20:23.58 | LuitvD | s/came/will come/ even... |
| 20:24.08 | LuitvD | i guess... |
| 20:24.19 | LuitvD | but what's the difference... |
| 20:24.51 | LuitvD | I hope some P0 developers will take nice pictures of it |
| 20:26.19 | PBeck | LuitvD: my english is not so good, so i hope you can help me ;) |
| 20:26.41 | PBeck | my english can me better. So i can edit the wiki in the future ^^ |
| 20:26.44 | PBeck | *be |
| 20:26.48 | LuitvD | PBeck: I'm just a dutch 17 year-old... my english is bad too |
| 20:26.49 | PBeck | +only |
| 20:27.23 | PBeck | LuitvD: ok than can we learn together ^^ |
| 20:27.32 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:28.38 | PBeck | hm i hope "something else everyone ask-feature will be wifi :D |
| 20:28.44 | PBeck | +the |
| 20:28.50 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 20:29.54 | theholyduck | yeh wifi would be usefull |
| 20:31.02 | *** join/#openmoko neclimdu1 (n=necro@66-100-227-135-dyndsl.oplink.net) |
| 20:31.12 | SpeedEvil | I don't have any BT devices ATM. |
| 20:31.15 | PBeck | LuitvD: i hope i can buy the phase 2 device with my own money and wifi :p |
| 20:31.31 | SpeedEvil | I have a wifi USB stick that should fit in the space tbe BT module takes. |
| 20:31.42 | LuitvD | PBeck: you'll have to wait quite a while for that though... |
| 20:32.05 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: cool :) |
| 20:32.12 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: i dont think so. BT and wifi should be together in de device |
| 20:32.18 | SpeedEvil | Well, yes. |
| 20:32.21 | SpeedEvil | They should be. |
| 20:32.22 | PBeck | LuitvD: september |
| 20:32.31 | SpeedEvil | They will not be unless I do something to it though. |
| 20:32.32 | LuitvD | PBeck: yeah... that's a long time :P |
| 20:32.33 | PBeck | s/de/the |
| 20:32.48 | *** join/#openmoko theike01 (n=istuart@67-131-153-130.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 20:33.13 | SpeedEvil | It is - if it does fit - and from the images it looks like it does - only a 10 minute mod. |
| 20:33.15 | PBeck | LuitvD: my contract period is running till september |
| 20:33.19 | PBeck | so thats ok ;) |
| 20:33.23 | LuitvD | PBeck: de? are you dutch or something? :P |
| 20:33.33 | univac | pl ;p |
| 20:34.15 | PBeck | LuitvD: hm i would write "dem" the german word for the |
| 20:34.25 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:34.42 | LuitvD | PBeck: are you german then? |
| 20:35.27 | LuitvD | Scotty? |
| 20:35.28 | PBeck | alternatively it mean der. the have many significances |
| 20:35.28 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:35.41 | PBeck | LuitvD: i am from germany, yes |
| 20:35.55 | univac | uhm |
| 20:36.47 | don-o | http://picasaweb.google.com/don.park/Phone/photo#5037428520552270466 |
| 20:37.04 | don-o | thats the page from the PDF for those who want something simple to view :) |
| 20:37.41 | LuitvD | only 2 desktops? :D |
| 20:37.50 | PBeck | don-o: hehe |
| 20:37.53 | LuitvD | s/desktops/workspaces/ |
| 20:38.05 | *** join/#openmoko ntnp_ (n=ntnp@63.187.103-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 20:38.11 | don-o | LuitvD: lol. two is plenty. |
| 20:38.15 | PBeck | hm i use one workspace, but i have only a few windows ^^ |
| 20:38.29 | LuitvD | don-o: well, for me it isn't :P |
| 20:38.49 | LuitvD | don-o: used 6 workspaces simultaniously yesterday |
| 20:38.54 | LuitvD | (my record) |
| 20:38.57 | don-o | LuitvD: good golly. |
| 20:39.09 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:47.19 | natetrue | hi everyone |
| 20:47.44 | PBeck | hi natetrue |
| 20:48.09 | natetrue | sup |
| 20:48.16 | LuitvD | you |
| 20:48.17 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.1.19) |
| 20:48.17 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:48.40 | LuitvD | (the alternative way to say nut'n) |
| 20:48.58 | LuitvD | hi natetrue |
| 20:49.02 | natetrue | hi |
| 20:49.24 | natetrue | been quiet on openmoko for the last couple weeks |
| 20:49.28 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 20:49.55 | LuitvD | the neo p0 devices being postponed didn't do much good I guess.. |
| 20:50.44 | stefan_schmidt | imho, it's nice to be more quiet here. |
| 20:50.51 | natetrue | can't wait to get my hands on a neo |
| 20:51.08 | natetrue | linux in my pocket, i love making little useful apps |
| 20:51.50 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:51.58 | LuitvD | you're not the only one |
| 20:51.59 | PBeck | natetrue: i like nice apps too, that i can use :D |
| 20:52.18 | PBeck | *they |
| 20:52.24 | natetrue | i'm especially excited about the GPS |
| 20:52.30 | PBeck | yes iam too |
| 20:52.38 | PBeck | i like the openstreetmap project |
| 20:52.44 | LuitvD | same here |
| 20:52.56 | LuitvD | but the biggest pro is still that it's just a linux pda too |
| 20:52.59 | PBeck | i hope it will be a navigation possible in the future |
| 20:53.15 | LuitvD | which I like... so I can throw away my Palm PDA |
| 20:53.33 | PBeck | LuitvD: yes thats right. I hope the neo will sync with evolution very well |
| 20:53.41 | natetrue | if not you can fix it |
| 20:53.52 | PBeck | you mean the sync? |
| 20:54.22 | PBeck | hm iam not a programmer, so thats not so easy, but i look forward to help ;) |
| 20:54.24 | LuitvD | natetrue: fix what? my Palm? |
| 20:55.00 | PBeck | hm i think a evolutio light server run on the neo |
| 20:55.27 | PBeck | so it would be easy so sync with evolution. I hope ^^ |
| 20:55.39 | LuitvD | damn, it seems like I burnt my microchip ... or something similar... |
| 20:55.44 | LuitvD | it won't do anything... |
| 20:57.59 | SpeedEvil | Openstreetmap will simply never happen for a couple of decades in many places. |
| 20:58.04 | PBeck | LuitvD: hm we can use the openstreetmap files to navigate but we need first any ^^ |
| 20:58.14 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:58.35 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: who knows what will happen... |
| 20:58.45 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: sadly you are right :/ |
| 20:59.03 | PBeck | but i hope the converse ^^ |
| 20:59.04 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: the amount of data entry needed is _huge_. |
| 20:59.05 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: maybe some major commercial streetmaps will help openstreetmap some day... |
| 20:59.09 | LuitvD | though I doubt it |
| 20:59.21 | SpeedEvil | And the cost of generating reliable maps is large. |
| 20:59.27 | LuitvD | yup |
| 20:59.46 | PBeck | yes |
| 20:59.58 | SpeedEvil | I think it's much more likely that maps will be available to users at a reasonable cost. |
| 21:00.07 | SpeedEvil | As the numbers go up. |
| 21:00.17 | PBeck | i would add my town to openstreetmap, when i give a client for the neo |
| 21:00.36 | SpeedEvil | You will drive every street in your town, and add all streetnames? |
| 21:00.52 | SpeedEvil | That's a rather large project, for any but the smallest towns. |
| 21:01.11 | SpeedEvil | And then you're going to make errors. |
| 21:01.28 | SpeedEvil | VErifying is at least as hard as the initial mapping. |
| 21:01.40 | PBeck | not i i mean it above, argh ... |
| 21:01.54 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: hm i think thats possible |
| 21:02.12 | PBeck | what can we do all with gps, when we have no maps? |
| 21:02.27 | SpeedEvil | Google-maps works. |
| 21:02.35 | SpeedEvil | To an extent. |
| 21:02.56 | PBeck | can i save the maps on the neo |
| 21:02.56 | SpeedEvil | Wander round the area you're going with a browser with a large cache. |
| 21:03.10 | SpeedEvil | Then you can read the maps from cache. |
| 21:03.23 | SpeedEvil | Doing mmuch more violates google-maps TOS. |
| 21:03.31 | PBeck | give it a option to combinate the google maps with gps? |
| 21:03.59 | SpeedEvil | With cheap internet access, google-maps is almost a good solution. |
| 21:04.08 | SpeedEvil | Without it, well... |
| 21:04.15 | PBeck | but i dont can look where i am |
| 21:04.33 | LuitvD | s/dont can/cannot/ ;) |
| 21:04.49 | SpeedEvil | You can goto maps.google.co.uk/w=3&n=3 or something. |
| 21:04.51 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: it would be a nice application of google maps |
| 21:04.52 | PBeck | LuitvD: thanks ;) |
| 21:05.00 | SpeedEvil | And go to 3 degrees west, 3 degrees east |
| 21:05.05 | SpeedEvil | picking the URL off the GPS. |
| 21:05.44 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: oh ok thats a good alternative |
| 21:05.53 | SpeedEvil | It does need an internet connection. |
| 21:05.59 | PBeck | we need a phone flatrate :D |
| 21:06.05 | rwhitby | you'd be back where you started (3 degrees west, 3 degrees east) |
| 21:06.38 | rwhitby | :-) |
| 21:07.07 | SpeedEvil | I've used the 'cache browser' option with a laptop before. |
| 21:07.39 | SpeedEvil | The zoom/pan works fine, as long as the tiles are in cache. |
| 21:08.11 | PBeck | SpeedEvil: hm ok thats ossible |
| 21:08.13 | PBeck | possible |
| 21:08.23 | SpeedEvil | google gpsdrive too. |
| 21:08.30 | LuitvD | wow, my robot's software has some strange bugs... |
| 21:08.43 | SpeedEvil | Is it stalking you, wielding a chainsaw? |
| 21:08.44 | natetrue | is it going berserk and harming people |
| 21:10.09 | PBeck | so i go offline now |
| 21:10.14 | PBeck | bye ;) |
| 21:11.10 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 21:11.57 | LuitvD | lol |
| 21:15.16 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1225 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/ (Makefile setup.sh): |
| 21:15.16 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh: added option -t to create a portable tarball (UNTESTED) |
| 21:15.16 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh: moved test whether file exists locally into "download" |
| 21:15.16 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh: added download of dfu-util and, optionally, openocd and openocd.cfg |
| 21:15.16 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Makefile: added tarball creation (UNTESTED) |
| 21:16.36 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Is the "My Account" thing an idea or foreseeable reality? |
| 21:21.08 | Elrond | Ahh, found the link on the main page. |
| 21:23.36 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin (n=Harlekin@p54969B64.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:31.51 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:32.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Is it okay, if I put the standard wishlist disclaimer to the "My Account" page? |
| 21:43.27 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 21:43.32 | SpeedEvil | Forgot it. |
| 21:43.44 | SpeedEvil | It's a forseeable reality - if FIC is interested. |
| 21:44.11 | SpeedEvil | Without FIC, it's vanishingly unlikely to succeed. |
| 21:44.55 | SpeedEvil | The code isn't exactly very difficult. |
| 21:45.53 | SpeedEvil | Simple web-database. One-way trasform from IMEI to account number. |
| 21:46.00 | SpeedEvil | Account number printed on phone. |
| 21:46.50 | hrw | what with SIM cards with disabled gprs connections? |
| 21:47.09 | hrw | or phones where user want to use few simcards? |
| 21:47.21 | Elrond | hrw - What do you mean? |
| 21:47.35 | SpeedEvil | IMEI does not change. |
| 21:47.36 | LuitvD | I hope I can write as much C code for Openmoko as I did for my robot just now... :| |
| 21:47.38 | SpeedEvil | It's per-phone. |
| 21:47.52 | SpeedEvil | Cannot be changed, without TIs internal docs. |
| 21:48.23 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: is the IMEI linked to the GSM module? |
| 21:48.23 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 21:48.23 | hrw | user can use card which do not have possibility to do any gprs connection |
| 21:48.25 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: does a dual-phone have two IMEI codes then? |
| 21:48.30 | SpeedEvil | It's the unique serial number that's at the heart of GSM phones. |
| 21:48.39 | SpeedEvil | It is the phones identity to the GSM network. |
| 21:48.51 | SpeedEvil | Clone it, and you have a cloned phone, that can make calls on the original number. |
| 21:48.53 | LuitvD | so then a dual-phone should have two... |
| 21:49.20 | SpeedEvil | A true 'dual phone', with two radios, capable of simultaneous operation - yes. |
| 21:49.25 | LuitvD | :) |
| 21:49.58 | SpeedEvil | It's illegal (in the UK) to alter the IMEI., |
| 21:50.00 | Elrond | hrw - So what... you can't do gprs... so what? |
| 21:50.22 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: so what will a true doal phone do when asked for *#06# ? |
| 21:50.28 | LuitvD | :P |
| 21:50.30 | SpeedEvil | I have no idea. |
| 21:50.37 | SpeedEvil | Find one, and type it. |
| 21:50.38 | LuitvD | s/doal/dual/ |
| 21:50.40 | LuitvD | :S |
| 21:50.49 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: lol, i'd love to |
| 21:50.52 | SpeedEvil | The logical thing to do would be to present it on the screen. |
| 21:50.55 | SpeedEvil | (s) |
| 21:51.03 | LuitvD | present both... |
| 21:51.08 | *** join/#openmoko rep (n=rep@vs187078.vserver.de) |
| 21:51.16 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@2001:638:602:af01:20a:e4ff:fe2e:2869) |
| 21:52.07 | SpeedEvil | I probably shouldn't have made the 'And they can even make you hear voices' to the 'My Account' thread on the list... |
| 21:52.43 | rwhitby | I thought it was funny :-) |
| 21:54.26 | LuitvD | XD |
| 21:54.26 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 21:54.27 | SpeedEvil | i assume it's possible for 'someone' with the access to phone an IMEI. |
| 21:54.27 | SpeedEvil | If it's on their net. |
| 21:54.27 | rwhitby | someone who uses a gsm phone, and doesn't think that the cellular operator has the ability to track and listen to everything they do, is a bit naieve. |
| 21:55.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1226 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/ (Makefile config.example setup.sh): |
| 21:55.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh: renamed OPENOCD_CONFIG to OPENOCD_CFG |
| 21:55.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh, Makefile: renamed output file from devirg-... to devirginate-... |
| 21:55.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: config.example: added OPENOCD and OPENOCD_CFG |
| 21:55.41 | SpeedEvil | Moko-Alibi. Use speech recognition to cue, and a recording of your voice to hold a conversation with a third party. Someone in a call center working from a script is ideal. Leave the phone in the location, do the crime, come back to pick it up later! |
| 21:55.45 | hrw | cu |
| 21:57.19 | LuitvD | I think my next robot will be something like this :D http://www.metacafe.com/watch/445498/robotic_beer_launching_refrigerator/ |
| 21:57.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *lol* |
| 21:57.44 | LuitvD | making it aim for my neo's Bluetooth signal :) |
| 21:58.35 | SpeedEvil | And on his gravestone was written "Killed by a flying cold one". |
| 21:59.00 | *** join/#openmoko antenagora (n=antenago@217.171.42.114) |
| 21:59.21 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 21:59.37 | Stephmw | interesting concept.. http://www.neokeys.com/en/nk_en.html |
| 21:59.54 | Stephmw | I'd rather have the keys have the display on them |
| 22:00.55 | SpeedEvil | I thought about that. |
| 22:00.59 | SpeedEvil | It's _hard_ to do. |
| 22:01.19 | SpeedEvil | The only way I came up with was actual little displays on the keys. |
| 22:01.25 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: why do you use _this_ all the time, doesn't this work? |
| 22:01.38 | SpeedEvil | Otherwise you get focus and point of view problems. |
| 22:01.58 | LuitvD | doesn't ctrl + b work for you |
| 22:02.01 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I was thinking of opaque membranes |
| 22:02.02 | LuitvD | (bold) |
| 22:02.02 | *** join/#openmoko rodgers (n=rodgers@billings.nlm.nih.gov) |
| 22:02.11 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 22:02.17 | Stephmw | testbold |
| 22:02.21 | SpeedEvil | That worked. |
| 22:02.26 | Stephmw | hmm, works in irssi, interesting |
| 22:02.27 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 22:02.27 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:02.39 | LuitvD | is this bold? |
| 22:02.39 | Stephmw | underlines? |
| 22:02.40 | Elrond | I already saw some tft-on-key thingy... someone pasted the url here. |
| 22:02.51 | Elrond | underline |
| 22:02.55 | LuitvD | lol |
| 22:02.56 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - the problem with tactile buttons is that the button is of course raised over the display. |
| 22:02.58 | LuitvD | how did you do that? |
| 22:03.02 | Elrond | reverse |
| 22:03.05 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 22:03.06 | LuitvD | how |
| 22:03.27 | SpeedEvil | If the button is raised above the display, this means that when you move the phone, you get parallax problems. |
| 22:03.35 | Elrond | Ctrl-_ for underline. Ctrl-V for reverse. |
| 22:03.36 | SpeedEvil | And if the face of the button isn't flat, you get lensing. |
| 22:03.37 | Stephmw | that's true enough |
| 22:03.47 | Elrond | don't abuse. It's annoying on the screen. |
| 22:04.04 | LuitvD | in irssi? |
| 22:04.13 | SpeedEvil | And the problem of having an air-layer under the keys is that it makes the optical transmission worse. |
| 22:04.17 | LuitvD | doesn't work in Xchat :) |
| 22:04.33 | SpeedEvil | It is solvable, but not trivially, to get it to look good. |
| 22:04.48 | SpeedEvil | If you accept it looking 'Ok', then you can get away with more. |
| 22:05.14 | LuitvD | isn't just using a touch-screen like sensor more convenient for that purpose? |
| 22:05.14 | Elrond | LuitvD - Don't ask me how to enter it in $yourircclient. These codes are plain on the wire. |
| 22:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
| 22:05.44 | SpeedEvil | Not really - tactile buttons are really great for blind input. |
| 22:05.50 | SpeedEvil | The labels are just hints. |
| 22:05.59 | SpeedEvil | As are the numbers on a conventional phone. |
| 22:06.07 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 22:06.25 | LuitvD | hmm, can't you put some reliëf in the touchscreen then? |
| 22:06.48 | SpeedEvil | In theory, yes. |
| 22:06.57 | LuitvD | i bet "reliëf" isn't the right word... |
| 22:07.00 | SpeedEvil | in practice, it's another thing to go wrong. |
| 22:07.11 | SpeedEvil | relief pretty much is. |
| 22:07.12 | rodgers | to LuitvD; happy to find another xchat user :) |
| 22:07.18 | LuitvD | lol |
| 22:07.38 | SpeedEvil | One of its meanings is 'an engraved pattern' or something. |
| 22:07.39 | LuitvD | rodgers: I think I'll switch back to irssi soon though... |
| 22:08.42 | rodgers | LuitvD: dont know it - does it run on my SPARC/Solaris box? ;) |
| 22:09.02 | LuitvD | rodgers: ask irssi ;) |
| 22:09.10 | LuitvD | rodgers: your guess is as good as mine |
| 22:09.18 | rodgers | LuitvD: touche |
| 22:10.26 | Stephmw | irssi, just like BitchX just depends on ncurses |
| 22:10.33 | Stephmw | so it should run on just about anything |
| 22:12.03 | SpeedEvil | libm, libcrypt, libresolv, libc, ld-linux |
| 22:12.48 | LuitvD | and now that Solaris got released under GNU-GPL it's a matter of time before it's supported (if it isn't supported already) |
| 22:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 22:12.53 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178069007.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:13.11 | rodgers | good point |
| 22:13.44 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 22:14.03 | SpeedEvil | Will it even run on the neo? |
| 22:14.09 | LuitvD | heheh, maybe... |
| 22:14.21 | LuitvD | will need some hacking of the solaris-kernel I guess... |
| 22:14.32 | LuitvD | I bet solaris isn't supporting ARM yet... |
| 22:14.46 | LuitvD | but maybe it is already... who knows |
| 22:14.53 | woglinde | counter |
| 22:14.53 | aloril | P0: 2 days 13:45:06 (2.573 +-1.0 days); P1: 34.573 +-10.0 (see faq) (450) |
| 22:15.10 | philips | LuitvD: It is still under cddl according to opensolaris.org |
| 22:15.28 | LuitvD | philips: is it? :| |
| 22:15.55 | Stephmw | I think that's under review |
| 22:15.59 | philips | LuitvD: The majority of OpenSolaris code is released under the Common Development and Distribution License (CDDL) Version 1.0. |
| 22:16.29 | LuitvD | Stephmw: yeah, they had their doubts about GPLv3, not? |
| 22:16.41 | LuitvD | (just like Linus) |
| 22:16.48 | Stephmw | LuitvD: dunno about doubts - atm it's just prudent to wait and see |
| 22:17.13 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:17.20 | LuitvD | and order a free dev. starter kit |
| 22:17.37 | Stephmw | the GPL+linking exception that Sun took for the OpenJDK is an interesting proposition |
| 22:18.01 | Stephmw | it's better suited to core libraries and apis |
| 22:19.22 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 22:25.12 | *** join/#openmoko nslu2-log_ (i=slug@nslu2-linux/dyoung) |
| 22:25.23 | LuitvD | well, I think it's time for me to sleep for a while... |
| 22:25.43 | LuitvD | and I don't think I'll come back till monday |
| 22:25.57 | LuitvD | gonna finish the work on my robot this weekend I think... |
| 22:26.02 | LuitvD | bye y'all |
| 22:27.04 | LuitvD | good luck on living through these last days before p0 |
| 22:27.05 | LuitvD | counter |
| 22:27.05 | aloril | P0: 2 days 13:32:54 (2.565 +-1.0 days); P1: 34.565 +-10.0 (see faq) (451) |
| 22:27.08 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:27.27 | *** join/#openmoko MoRpHeUz (n=morphbr@200.184.118.132) |
| 22:27.59 | SpeedEvil | I suppose in around a week we'll have some p0's in hands of devs. |
| 22:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:52.26 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:53.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1227 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/ (Makefile openocd.in setup.sh): |
| 22:53.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh, Makefile: use an explicit list of files to include, not just all that |
| 22:53.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: happens to be in tmp/ |
| 22:53.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Makefile, setup.sh: changed tarball directory from devirginator-... to |
| 22:53.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: devirginate-... |
| 22:53.19 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Makefile: added tarball dependencies |
| 22:53.23 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh, openocd.in: replaced all absolute path names with relative ones |
| 22:54.02 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 22:55.18 | MetaBookfoziS | what is display size in width and height? |
| 22:55.27 | MetaBookfoziS | i think the specification is bad, on the vendor's site |
| 22:55.30 | MetaBookfoziS | http://blog.printf.net/articles/2007/02/22/unboxing-the-openmoko-phone |
| 22:56.16 | MetaBookfoziS | in this picture, i don't think the screen is only 5*6cm (iirc) as described on the vendor's site (linked from wiki) |
| 22:56.51 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@tmo-034-81.customers.d1-online.com) |
| 22:57.15 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:57.48 | MetaBookfoziS | Active Area 43.2 x 57.6 |
| 22:58.08 | MetaBookfoziS | as i see this is bigger, not? |
| 23:11.53 | *** join/#openmoko apadiss (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:12.27 | SpeedEvil | What do you mean? |
| 23:12.38 | SpeedEvil | Yes, the screen is only 2.8". |
| 23:12.54 | SpeedEvil | That picture makes the screen look large because it is close to the camera. |
| 23:13.40 | MetaBookfoziS | ok:/ |
| 23:18.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1228 10/trunk/src/host/devirginator/ (Makefile config.phase0 setup.sh): |
| 23:18.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh: always download the index file from the Web (the current logic would |
| 23:18.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: only "cache" in case of problems anyway) |
| 23:18.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Makefile: commented out "devirginate" target causing double execution of |
| 23:18.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: setup.sh |
| 23:18.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: config.phase0: phase 0 sample configuration |
| 23:21.41 | buz | is it just me or does the car holder look rather half baked? |
| 23:22.44 | buz | it seems usable, but fugly |
| 23:25.09 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3CFAB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 23:26.02 | maydaytx | the wha? |
| 23:26.47 | *** join/#openmoko lucas123 (n=Meijer@lucas.demon.nl) |
| 23:26.51 | atla | the wha starts now |
| 23:26.53 | atla | :) |
| 23:30.51 | SpeedEvil | I don't think it's up to the job. |
| 23:30.58 | SpeedEvil | There is no way you could lift a car with that. |
| 23:31.27 | buz | (i half expected that reply) |
| 23:31.28 | CoreDump|home | my thoughts exactly. Rippoff |
| 23:32.51 | buz | 75$ seems step for it anyhow |
| 23:33.00 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 23:33.05 | SpeedEvil | Especially when it doesn't charge. |
| 23:33.15 | buz | so it's just dumb plastic? |
| 23:33.25 | buz | (instead of dumb plastic with some dumb wires) |
| 23:33.29 | SpeedEvil | It may have an antenna connector on, I don't know. |
| 23:33.47 | buz | i have never needed antenna connector with any phone in a car |
| 23:33.49 | SpeedEvil | It can't have GPS, as that'd be visible, as would the charging connector. |
| 23:34.21 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 23:34.42 | buz | if this is really just a passive holder, 20$ would be more appropriate in my view |
| 23:34.55 | SpeedEvil | But it's 'designed'. |
| 23:34.58 | buz | (especially considering just how half baked it looks) |
| 23:35.11 | buz | designed to look like home made? |
| 23:35.26 | SpeedEvil | It's not just any shape, it's been carefully designed by a skilled designer, on _quality_ drugs. |
| 23:35.57 | buz | lol, i was playing wario smooth moves on a wii today. those people must have been on quality drugs too |
| 23:36.14 | buz | (and i finally believe that games COULD be harmful to kids, but it's not the violence oh no) |
| 23:37.26 | buz | anyway, time to go to sleep |
| 23:37.28 | buz | night |
| 23:37.33 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
| 23:39.56 | *** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56) |
| 23:45.22 | *** join/#openmoko mrlua (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 23:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko atla (n=atla@p3EE3CFAB.dip.t-dialin.net) |
