irclog2html for #openmoko on 20070228

`00:00.04`	`cjb`	`it boots all the way to GPE.`
`00:00.14`	`cjb`	`yeah, I doubt I have that, if the NAND image is from August.`
`00:00.43`	`Elrond`	`Hmm, I wonder, if you have the bad block table already...`
`00:01.40`	`Elrond`	`Anyway, if you don't fear disassembling, it's probably the easiesst.`
`00:03.13`	`cjb`	`I don't fear it, but I can't find an appropriate screwdriver :)`
`00:03.32`	`Elrond`	`;)`
`00:04.38`	`Elrond`	`If you want to update u-boot, make sure a) you check the bad block table status b) make sure, jtag works. (if you screw anything, jtag is your only way back.)`
`00:05.53`	`*** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`00:06.06`	`cjb`	`nod. we have two Neos now, and our own JTAG equipment, so shouldn't be too bad.`
`00:06.49`	`Clint`	`cjb: are they both orange?`
`00:06.58`	`cjb`	`yes.`
`00:07.25`	`cjb`	`they're the same hardware revision.`
`00:09.06`	`Elrond`	`Which revision is it?`
`00:09.25`	`cjb`	`GTA01B_v3`
`00:09.53`	`Elrond`	`That's nearly "current".`
`00:10.07`	`Elrond`	`That one only has issues with suspend/resume.`
`00:10.31`	`cjb`	`nothing important then :)`
`00:10.46`	`*** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.41)`
`00:11.21`	`Elrond`	`g`
`00:12.44`	`Elrond`	`Anyway. I need to go to bed.`
`00:12.52`	`Elrond`	`Ask me more questions in 18 hours. :)`
`00:12.54`	`cjb`	`thanks for the help!`
`00:25.08`	`*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)`
`00:27.14`	`*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net)`
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`00:34.54`	`*** join/#openmoko ping_tu (n=ping_tt2@61.185.246.242)`
`00:35.51`	`*** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171)`
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`00:41.06`	`rwhitby`	`"Most of these devices are _not_ phones."`
`00:41.37`	`cjb`	`'lo rwhitby.`
`00:41.47`	`rwhitby`	`hey cjb`
`00:41.52`	`rwhitby`	`excellent. is it working for you?`
`00:42.00`	`cjb`	`so far :)`
`00:42.15`	`rwhitby`	`(there seems to be a failure in openmoko-dailer this morning ...)`
`00:42.38`	`cjb`	`ah, oh dear. perhaps I can revert that package when I get to it?`
`00:42.38`	`rwhitby`	`cjb: now that you have hardware, what other stuff should mokomakefile be building for phase0 devs (of which I am one)`
`00:42.53`	`Kero`	`haha, I'm receiving (and decoding) dbus signals about power on my laptop !`
`00:42.57`	`cjb`	`rwhitby: ask me once I've actually managed to install an image on the hardware :)`
`00:43.15`	`rwhitby`	`cjb: hopefully, I'm only a couple of weeks behind you :-)`
`00:43.49`	`Kero`	`and USB HD stuff, too :)`
`00:45.33`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net)`
`00:57.30`	`Kero`	`and rhythmbox on the session bus, too.`
`00:57.33`	`*** join/#openmoko \|Lupin\| (n=Lupin@4aa54-2-89-80-51-65.dsl.club-internet.fr)`
`00:57.38`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Hi`
`01:00.36`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Any openmoko guy around ?`
`01:03.27`	`Kero`	`just ask what you want to know, someone might answer`
`01:04.42`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Well`
`01:04.52`	`\|Lupin\|`	`there is nothing I really want to _know_`
`01:05.03`	`*** join/#openmoko dougt (n=chatzill@gw.office.mozilla.org)`
`01:05.12`	`\|Lupin\|`	`just wanted to talk aboutthepossibility of having a phone with a keyboard rather than a touch-screen`
`01:06.15`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Regarding mobilephones, the situation for blind people is relatively frustrating because thay can hardly use a mobile phone. There are some commercial screen-readers available, but notsure how goodthey are.`
`01:06.44`	`\|Lupin\|`	`With OpenMoko there would be a chance to improve the situation, but a touch-screen is definitel not usable by a blin person, IMHO`
`01:07.05`	`cjb`	`...`
`01:07.13`	`cjb`	`\|Lupin\|: so.. they should get a different phone.`
`01:07.25`	`cjb`	`we get some very strange people in here.`
`01:09.16`	`\|Lupin\|`	`hmm... I think I made a mistake. I believed that OpenMoko is the name ofThe phone, whereas anow I believe it is just the nameofthe software, which can be run on several different models. Is this correct ?`
`01:10.20`	`Clint`	`you are correct that there is no hardware called openmoko`
`01:10.56`	`\|Lupin\|`	`okan. But on how man different hardwares can OpenMoko run ?`
`01:11.12`	`\|Lupin\|`	`s/man/many/`
`01:12.36`	`\|Lupin\|`	`wow, apt...`
`01:23.39`	`*** join/#openmoko ping_tu (n=ping_tt2@61.185.246.242)`
`01:23.51`	`*** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@203-206-59-67.dyn.iinet.net.au)`
`01:26.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Laura_Cat_38 (n=ircap@host129.200-117-61.telecom.net.ar)`
`01:26.52`	`Laura_Cat_38`	`1,1 1,1 14,14 1,6 6,64,13 1,11 1,1 1,1 1,110holas 1,1 1,1 1,11 4,13 6,6 14,14 1,1 1,1 1,1`
`01:27.44`	`CoreDump\|home`	`....`
`01:28.25`	`CoreDump\|home`	`I couldn't imagine a faster way making more "friends" in a channel than this, really`
`01:29.39`	`rep`	`;)`
`01:30.42`	`\|Lupin\|`	`?`
`01:32.22`	`CoreDump\|home`	`\|Lupin\|: the use of colors in IRC is frowned upon in many channels as it renders as useless garbage in some clients.`
`01:32.56`	`\|Lupin\|`	`ahah`
`01:33.10`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Well on my braille device I could only see some spaces`
`01:33.18`	`CoreDump\|home`	`hehe`
`01:33.42`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Seriously`
`01:33.54`	`\|Lupin\|`	`I'd definitely be happy to be ableTo use the phone`
`01:34.04`	`\|Lupin\|`	`but with a tuch-screen... not quite possible.`
`01:34.16`	`rep`	`will the neo have an infinite impropability drive?`
`01:34.29`	`rep`	`arghs typo...`
`01:35.03`	`CoreDump\|home`	`\|Lupin\|: dunno about irssi but that's what it looks like on a non-color-aware client: http://hentges.net/tmp/logs/irc/livelogs/%23openmoko.livelog#[20070228%2002:26:52]`
`01:36.27`	`\|Lupin\|`	`CoreDump\|home: okay, thanks.`
`01:36.44`	`CoreDump\|home`	`np`
`01:38.22`	`\|Lupin\|`	`One possibility is to use the Neo1973 thanks t a braille terminal which would talk toThe phone over bluetooth`
`01:38.40`	`\|Lupin\|`	`but this requires to have two devices al theTime... can be boring...`
`01:38.47`	`Clint`	`what about speech recognition?`
`01:40.13`	`rwhitby`	`\|Lupin\|: it is generally thought that there will eventually be a phone with a keyboard that runs OpenMoko. The announced official devices so far do not.`
`01:40.57`	`rwhitby`	`There is talk of HTC phones running OpenMoko, but I'm unsure of the status (i.e. are they just running the GUI, or are they actually useable as a phone)`
`01:41.29`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Clint: it might be a solution, indeed. But first this implies a lot of development I guess (to develop the voice recogtition suite) and second it max not b very easy to use this kind of software to, say, write mails or so...`
`01:42.16`	`\|Lupin\|`	`rwhitby: Okay, thanks for your infos. What exactly is /%23openmoko.livelog#[20070228%2002:26:5`
`01:42.27`	`\|Lupin\|`	`ooops let's start it again`
`01:42.36`	`\|Lupin\|`	`rwhitby: Okay, thanks for your infos. What exactly is HTC ?`
`01:42.53`	`rwhitby`	`HTC Universal is a phone`
`01:43.26`	`rwhitby`	`there are other HTC devices too - HTC is the manufacturer who also makes phones for other companies who rebrand them.`
`01:44.01`	`*** join/#openmoko mitcheloc (n=mitchelo@titaniumsoft.net)`
`01:44.26`	`\|Lupin\|`	`okay`
`01:44.34`	`\|Lupin\|`	`And how opened are these phones ?`
`01:46.11`	`*** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`01:46.22`	`*** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`01:47.03`	`rwhitby`	`\|Lupin\|: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Universal and http://www.openezx.org/`
`01:47.18`	`rwhitby`	`(there's probably a better HTC Linux site somewhere)`
`01:48.14`	`\|Lupin\|`	`ahah.`
`01:48.20`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Thanks rwhitby`
`01:48.37`	`\|Lupin\|`	`So Linux can already be installed o some phones...`
`01:48.53`	`rwhitby`	`yes`
`01:49.14`	`rwhitby`	`\|Lupin\|: how difficult is reading IRC with a braille reader?`
`01:49.15`	`mitcheloc`	`you can install linux on the htc phones? i've got a tytyn`
`01:51.02`	`*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)`
`01:51.22`	`\|Lupin\|`	`rwhitby: It's okay. Gets always easier with time going...`
`01:54.54`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Technology has some frustrating aspects.`
`01:55.19`	`\|Lupin\|`	`At th time of Gutenberg, things were printed on paper and hence simply not accessible to blin persons.`
`01:55.41`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Today with the technology, things could be accessible, but sometimes they are not.`
`01:55.45`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Too bad...`
`01:56.04`	`*** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=adutko@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net)`
`01:56.13`	`StylusEater`	`when can I buy one of these phones... :-)`
`01:56.32`	`CoreDump\|home`	`StylusEater: see topic`
`02:00.44`	`\|Lupin\|`	`Okay, enough surfing / hangin' aroundd. Goodnight folks.`
`02:02.51`	`CoreDump\|home`	`n8 \|Lupin\|`
`02:03.05`	`*** part/#openmoko \|Lupin\| (n=Lupin@4aa54-2-89-80-51-65.dsl.club-internet.fr)`
`02:05.44`	`*** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@CPE000fb55e466d-CM0012c9c84bc4.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`02:08.35`	`*** join/#openmoko vetetux (n=vetetix@187.25-218-195.adsl.internet.lu)`
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`02:09.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`tsp on #freenode-social uses a screen reader - at some 600WPM. He put up some samples of the speech - insane.`
`02:10.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`Started at 120, and just kept cranking.`
`02:11.28`	`CoreDump\|home`	`SpeedEvil: got an url?`
`02:13.25`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03jiang_li * r1153 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-simplemediaplayer/beep/mainwin.c: Thsi commit try to solve the problem of wrong position of the wheel`
`02:14.29`	`*** part/#openmoko puddingpimp (n=puddingp@gateway.quickcircuit.co.nz)`
`02:15.14`	`*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)`
`02:16.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://silenceisdefeat.org/~tspivey/eloquence.flac`
`02:18.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`Though it seems down.`
`02:18.44`	`CoreDump\|home`	`SpeedEvil: thanks!`
`02:18.50`	`CoreDump\|home`	`and yeah`
`02:18.56`	`CoreDump\|home`	`=) I'll try later`
`02:19.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`It seems unbelievable, but as he was keeping up with #fn-s at times when it was going 300wpm+, ...`
`02:20.26`	`CoreDump\|home`	`300wpm is amazing indeed`
`02:21.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`The speech file (that he uses) is at 6 - you can pretty much just hear the plosives.`
`02:22.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`Oh - I diddn't delete it. http://www.mauve.plus.com/eloquence.flac in approxiimately 3 minutes (uploading)`
`02:23.07`	`*** join/#openmoko cjb (n=cjb@pullcord.laptop.org)`
`02:23.44`	`CoreDump\|home`	`http://silenceisdefeat.org/~tspivey/eloquence.flac`
`02:24.05`	`CoreDump\|home`	`the guy besides mickeyl looks like one of the bad guys in a james bond movie hehe`
`02:24.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes - it's aa copy of that.`
`02:24.33`	`rwhitby`	`CoreDump\|home: in the final picture? that's sean.`
`02:24.43`	`CoreDump\|home`	`I know muwaha`
`02:24.54`	`CoreDump\|home`	`SpeedEvil: thanks`
`02:24.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`up now.`
`02:25.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`Just shows what training the brain can do.`
`02:25.38`	`rwhitby`	`(http://www.flickr.com/photos/32615155@N00/405229713/in/set-72157594561002629/ for those not also in #oe)`
`02:26.57`	`CoreDump\|home`	`SpeedEvil: wtf? you are not telling me that this guy actually understands this? lol!`
`02:27.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`He claims to - and if he really is blind - he seems to be able to 'read' at at least 300wpm. On balance I think I believe him.`
`02:28.18`	`CoreDump\|home`	`unf***ing believable`
`02:28.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`It did take him 6 months to build up to this speed, 1 or 2 wpm at a time.`
`02:29.06`	`CoreDump\|home`	`very impressive`
`02:29.30`	`SpeedEvil`	`Indeed - I'd previously assumed that the limit was around a third of that.`
`02:29.41`	`SpeedEvil`	`I hadn't considered non-human speakers, and a trained brain.`
`02:31.02`	`CoreDump\|home`	`rwhitby: now I know. Sean looks almost exactly like "Simon" ie: the bad guy in die hard 3 or 4`
`02:31.43`	`rwhitby`	`jeremy irons?`
`02:31.55`	`rwhitby`	`http://imdb.com/name/nm0000460/`
`02:32.29`	`CoreDump\|home`	`yep that's him`
`02:33.53`	`CoreDump\|home`	`time for bed, n8 all!`
`02:42.35`	`*** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net)`
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`02:45.20`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03laforge * r1154 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-20061030-qt2410.patch: add required CFG_UBOOT_SIZE variable to QT2410 config`
`02:50.27`	`*** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu)`
`02:53.02`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03laforge * r1155 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-dfu.patch: * add DFU relevant config fields for QT2410`
`03:04.22`	`*** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@203-206-183-196.perm.iinet.net.au)`
`03:04.37`	`*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)`
`03:05.26`	`aevin`	`where there many at the FOSDEM beerevent that were "faking it" , as talked about on the community ML ?`
`03:08.58`	`aevin`	`you know, showing off their printed-on-paper Neo? ;-)`
`03:11.17`	`*** join/#openmoko StylusEater (n=adutko@ip70-191-114-7.cl.ri.cox.net)`
`03:14.59`	`*** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p5495333E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`03:22.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`If I could have gotten there, I'd at least have made minimal effort.`
`03:22.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`Bit of wood + bandsaw + sander + 10 mins + LED + transparency = reasonable fake in 20 mins.`
`03:23.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`Well - and paint drying time.`
`03:23.47`	`*** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com)`
`03:24.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`For extra giggles, incorporate the guts of a bluetooth handset, and sell it to a gullible person. :)`
`03:28.34`	`aevin`	`haha:)`
`03:53.19`	`*** part/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com)`
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`04:18.46`	`aloril`	`"The thing we can promise at this point is a faster CPU. We're still working on the WiFi stuff. Graphics acceleration is much later. -Sean" http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003857.html`
`04:19.20`	`DesktopMa`	`atleast they're thinking about graphics :)`
`04:19.42`	`*** join/#openmoko t0nY (n=nengyu@59-124-92-123.HINET-IP.hinet.net)`
`04:21.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`:...`
`04:26.16`	`*** join/#openmoko gyaresu_ (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56)`
`04:27.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`I don't see a pressing need for it. (accelleration) Ok - it'd be nice to have slightly faster graphics, there are things I care about more though.`
`04:27.43`	`wm_eddie`	`like WiFi.`
`04:27.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`If there was to be a new chip, I'd like a MP3 chip that can talk to the SD.`
`04:27.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`(apart from widi)`
`04:28.05`	`wm_eddie`	`Aren't there any miniSD to SD adapters?`
`04:28.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`Many.`
`04:28.13`	`aloril`	`FIC founder posting in community list confirmed: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003852.html`
`04:28.30`	`wm_eddie`	`That way we could maybe use an SD wifi card on the Neo (maybe I mean SD to miniSD adapters.`
`04:28.37`	`aloril`	`so we now know for sure that nice interest goes to top`
`04:28.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yes, it's trivial to do, um_eddie.`
`04:29.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`The problem then arises that you pick between wifi, and SD.`
`04:29.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`sd-flash that is.`
`04:30.08`	`wm_eddie`	`Well, I'd mostly just like to use faster internet to read Google Reader, and e-mail faster... not download things.`
`04:30.15`	`wm_eddie`	`So it's not really a problem.`
`04:30.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`accelleration has nothing to do with internet.`
`04:30.40`	`wm_eddie`	`Switch out the WiFi card and put in the SD card to listen to your music when your done.`
`04:31.09`	`wm_eddie`	`? Are we talking about the same things?`
`04:31.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`Having only 10M or so of storage non-volatile may not be enough for many pwople.`
`04:31.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`You can use bluetooth internet too.`
`04:31.44`	`*** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-214-5.jetstream.xtra.co.nz)`
`04:32.08`	`wm_eddie`	`Yeah, you know with all those bluetooth hot-spots.`
`04:32.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`04:32.56`	`rwhitby`	`wm_eddie: yes, I have one in my home and one at work. and I read (and respond to) email and rss while riding the bus between`
`04:33.06`	`rwhitby`	`(using a Treo650 presently)`
`04:33.31`	`rwhitby`	`bluetooth is way fast enough for downloading stuff for offline usage.`
`04:33.54`	`rwhitby`	`do you use it online or offline?`
`04:34.16`	`wm_eddie`	`online via PCS Vision.`
`04:34.26`	`rwhitby`	`that's the difference then.`
`04:34.32`	`wm_eddie`	`I wish I had a wifi card so I can speed up the internet.`
`04:34.48`	`rwhitby`	`I use offline IMAP (Chatter Email) and cached web pages (Xiino)`
`04:35.09`	`wm_eddie`	`I have to use gmail because there's not a single e-mail program for the treo that can do Japanese email.`
`04:35.15`	`rwhitby`	`so I don't care how fast the connection is - as long as it can download enough stuff to keep me occupied for a half hour bus trip.`
`04:36.07`	`rwhitby`	`(No flat-rate GPRS here)`
`04:36.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`Just use it, and see if it's less stable than usual.`
`04:36.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`oops`
`04:37.00`	`wm_eddie`	`I get unlimited for $15 a month. :) It's the ONLY thing that makes Sprint worthwile.`
`04:37.26`	`*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net)`
`04:37.31`	`rwhitby`	`yep, the availability of flat rate wireless data makes a big difference in how you use a device`
`04:37.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`$60/mo here (UK) for unlimited GPRS (1 pound per day purchase)`
`04:38.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`Or 3 quid a meg.`
`04:38.48`	`wm_eddie`	`Sprint says it's unlimited but they actually limit it to 200MB a day. then they throttle you to 1KB/s`
`04:38.59`	`*** join/#openmoko disguy__160148 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-af8cc41000dc9f86)`
`04:39.05`	`rwhitby`	`AUD$5 per MB here - no unlimited`
`04:39.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`200M/day?`
`04:39.33`	`wm_eddie`	`It was kind of a problem back in the day before I had internet and was playing Final Fantasy XI via phone->laptop-PS2`
`04:39.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd love 20.`
`04:40.12`	`wm_eddie`	`It's the price one has to pay when using TDMA.`
`04:49.27`	`wm_eddie`	`(Or when one is in Japan and they charge rediculous ammounts for data dispite their 3.5gness`
`04:52.00`	`*** join/#openmoko chairuou (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)`
`04:55.28`	`*** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@70-59-58-234.hlrn.qwest.net)`
`04:59.15`	`*** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p549516AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`05:02.51`	`*** join/#openmoko jick (n=jick@222.92.90.170)`
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`05:14.33`	`aloril`	`SpeedEvil: hehe`
`05:21.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`Hmm. On reflection, I think maybe moving the whole thing to wishlist_hardware:neo1973 may be appropriate, and some splitting into wishlist_hardware:openmoko`
`05:24.27`	`aloril`	`P1 might be April 1st week, so moved date a bit (lower limit moved to 2 days forward too), also shortened`
`05:24.29`	`aloril`	`counter`
`05:24.29`	`aloril`	`P0: a week, a day 06:35:31 (-0.725 - 8.275 days); P1: 24.275 - 39.275 (see faq) (421)`
`05:24.35`	`*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)`
`05:25.43`	`aloril`	`(commenting on some past talk, sorry if you saw this already) libervisco: what makes you think they offer only EDGE and not also plain GPRS?`
`05:26.23`	`libervisco`	`they offer only GPRS, it says in their specs`
`05:26.44`	`libervisco`	`I hope EDGE could work too though`
`05:26.55`	`aloril`	`libervisco: I meant your provider`
`05:27.08`	`libervisco`	`oh`
`05:27.26`	`libervisco`	`well, I am not sure.. maybe GPRS would work`
`05:27.41`	`libervisco`	`but I doubt it, if requirements are different`
`05:27.44`	`aloril`	`3G only does exists I think, but EDGE only?`
`05:27.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`No.`
`05:27.52`	`aloril`	`well.. EDGE is basically just GPRS+`
`05:27.55`	`libervisco`	`hmm..`
`05:27.58`	`DesktopMa`	`neo? it does gprs only from what I understand`
`05:28.01`	`DesktopMa`	`no edge or 3g`
`05:28.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`EDGE is a different modulation standard for GSM over the same frequencies.`
`05:28.09`	`libervisco`	`well the company does offer GPRS internet access over mobile phones`
`05:28.12`	`aloril`	`yes, Neo1973 does GPRS only`
`05:28.16`	`libervisco`	`but they are expensive`
`05:28.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`EDGE trancievers switch between EDGE and normal GSM/GPRS as needed.`
`05:28.33`	`DesktopMa`	`data trafic is 8$ / mbyte here`
`05:28.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`Dynamically according to traffic. (on the tower)`
`05:28.40`	`DesktopMa`	`or you can get a flat fee for monthly use`
`05:29.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`I think an EDGE only phone is impossible too -`
`05:29.17`	`aloril`	`GPRS -> EDGE: some hardware and software updates in tower, but I haven't heard yet tower that would offer only EDGE and not also GPRS`
`05:29.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`as it requires GSM to negotiate.`
`05:29.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`As I understand it anyway.`
`05:29.52`	`aloril`	`3G only is possible I think?`
`05:29.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yeah.`
`05:29.58`	`DesktopMa`	`yeah you can't have edge without gprs, atleast no one is doing it`
`05:30.01`	`aloril`	`(Japan, South Korea for example)`
`05:30.01`	`SpeedEvil`	`Utterly different strandard.`
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`05:34.16`	`libervisco`	`btw`
`05:34.39`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://www.maplin.co.uk/Module.aspx?ModuleNo=99114&C=Newsletter&U=07P03-2_Office&T=-11854041 - or a neo, for cheaper!`
`05:34.47`	`libervisco`	`we're making some progress with that open mobile site :)`
`05:35.24`	`libervisco`	`SpeedEvil, nice :)`
`05:35.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`Just interesting how much some 'simple' devices can be.`
`05:36.10`	`libervisco`	`indeed`
`05:39.05`	`libervisco`	`if anyone wants to make suggestions about the new site... http://www.mobiliberty.com/shaping_concept`
`05:39.19`	`libervisco`	`anonymous comments are open :)`
`05:40.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`'written by a multiple of authors' -> many authors`
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`05:42.23`	`libervisco`	`SpeedEvil, gonna fix :)`
`05:42.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`Nothing else leapt out at me.`
`05:43.42`	`libervisco`	`np, thanks for reading`
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`05:51.19`	`mindspan`	`hi all ... I was wondering if there is a harder release date than a month or so (I know I know) ... just ran across this tonight and I'm strongly considering a rething of the hardware for a m2m project I'm working on. At this price point and feature set the Neo is about perfect for what we need, but I'm on a tight timeline and would need one asap...`
`05:52.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`no.`
`05:52.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`nothing really solid.`
`05:52.38`	`mindspan`	`ok, was afraid of that`
`05:52.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`If I was on a tight timeline, and needed one before the middle of april or the project would fail, I wouldn't consider it.`
`05:53.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`It _should_ be available late March, but...`
`05:53.43`	`mindspan`	`yeah, too bad, would save me about 60 hours of board design to integrate the pile of shite I currently have sitting here to work with :)`
`05:53.49`	`SpeedEvil`	`:/`
`05:54.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`What are you doing? Maybe there are other options that someone here would have a clue of.`
`05:55.12`	`mindspan`	`reading industrial sensors, pushing the data to a database ... needs gps and a local user interface though, so this was a fairly elegant solution`
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`05:55.56`	`mindspan`	`current plan is a rabbit semiconductor processor and a serial gprs module ... but I like easy :)`
`05:56.47`	`mindspan`	`besides, the screen is sooo pretty ... and in all it is barely more expensive than what we are currently doing ... well within budget`
`05:57.23`	`mindspan`	`seems like this always happens ... next greatest thing is announced that will work perfectly ... it's just behind on release too far to use`
`05:57.53`	`mindspan`	`or I hear about it a week after we finish the current designs :)`
`06:01.08`	`mindspan`	`anyway ...thanks for the answer`
`06:01.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`Seems always to be the way.`
`06:01.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`Good luck!`
`06:01.21`	`mindspan`	`thanks`
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`06:39.44`	`aloril`	`from old devel mail: "Second, it probably won't be worth it to develop applications on the device itself (if that were even possible given the memory constraints)."`
`06:40.00`	`aloril`	`well.. Neo1973 is like an old supercomputer really ;-)`
`06:41.43`	`SpeedEvil`	`I dunno.`
`06:41.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's not impossible to compile stuff on.`
`06:41.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`Especially overnight.`
`06:43.09`	`CM`	`Morning :)`
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`06:44.10`	`aloril`	`hall with 100 text terminals and wires and in middle of it small Neo1973 that is actually doing stuff`
`06:44.14`	`aloril`	`funny ;-)`
`06:45.16`	`CM`	`What's the default max number of ttys? 255`
`06:45.20`	`aloril`	`or circle of text terminals all connected to middle of circle`
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`06:56.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`That would be funny. A picture of 100 terminals spread round one neo on cables leading into the middle through a tree of hubs.`
`07:00.45`	`aloril`	`time travel back in time with this image when main frame meant 128MiB of memory, etc.. and lots of connected terminals`
`07:00.57`	`aloril`	`see, in future these are this small`
`07:01.01`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yeah. :)`
`07:01.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`Somewhere I've got a 24" drive platter.`
`07:01.21`	`aloril`	`oh.. btw.. here is one "takes one out of pocket" ;-)`
`07:01.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`And Io should probably throw away myu stack of 64K DRAM chips.`
`07:02.12`	`aloril`	`other person: "Woah" then you go to describe your desktop machine and other person faints ;-)`
`07:02.26`	`CM`	`I have version 1.0 of the system I work with now on a big tape roll in my desk drawer`
`07:02.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`Paper tape?`
`07:03.11`	`CM`	`Hehe, luckily not`
`07:03.27`	`CM`	`But I don't know what it is.. Says ALPHA 800/1600/6250 on it`
`07:03.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`That's 800/100/6250bpi`
`07:03.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`Is it about 1/2" wide?`
`07:04.00`	`CM`	`Yes`
`07:04.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's probably still readable in the right drive.`
`07:04.19`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03tony_guan * r1156 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (4 files in 3 dirs): resolved bug 108, please varify it. thks.`
`07:04.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`Finding one is fun.`
`07:04.34`	`CM`	`The system is still running on an old ibm vm mainframe`
`07:05.09`	`CM`	`I've asked around, the still have a reader for it`
`07:05.18`	`CM`	`Don't want to see that old APL code though`
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`07:20.51`	`*** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`07:26.08`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03zhiyong_sun * r1157 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/ (9 files in 2 dirs): add dbus message send function: when one item was selected, its name will be sent to footer`
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`07:56.54`	`CM`	`aloril: 111 now on http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Buying_Interest_List`
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`07:58.15`	`aloril`	`CM: yeah, interesting to see what people plan to do`
`07:58.27`	`CM`	`:)`
`07:58.48`	`aloril`	`CM: I suspect that actual official private preorder page would have at least 10x more ;-)`
`07:59.13`	`CM`	`Heh, I think so too`
`07:59.18`	`*** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl)`
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`08:00.33`	`aloril`	`updated counter to now include middle of range as target day +- uncertainty`
`08:00.43`	`CM`	`counter`
`08:00.43`	`aloril`	`P0: 4 days 01:59:38 (4.083 +-4.1 days); P1: 26.166 +-10.0 (see faq) (422)`
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`08:01.09`	`aloril`	`good point is that remaining time is less, bad point is that it moves slower for P0 ;-)`
`08:01.29`	`aloril`	`(for P1 there is only good point currently ;-)`
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`08:05.08`	`*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B96A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`08:10.52`	`aloril`	`s/guess/guesses/`
`08:10.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`And P0 phones in the hands of devs to find latent bugs I suspect.`
`08:11.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`P1 phones with unworkaroundable bugs that need shipped back would be _horrid_ for them.`
`08:11.19`	`aloril`	`yes and also so that however pre-orders has had chance to read P0 impressions`
`08:11.43`	`aloril`	`s/however/who/`
`08:11.44`	`*** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BED98.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`08:12.36`	`*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`08:12.36`	`aloril`	`can't they have uncertain dates in pre-order? if that is not good idea, then that also will push pre-order date close to actual P1 release data`
`08:13.01`	`aloril`	`s/data/date`
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`08:19.46`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1158 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/ (8 files in 2 dirs):`
`08:19.49`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 1. Add background picture to the keyboard`
`08:19.51`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 2. Display normal picture or pushed picture for each keys`
`08:22.11`	`*** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178218212.adsl.alicedsl.de)`
`08:22.19`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03caowai_song * r1159 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-keyboard/layouts/ (Makefile.am spacekey.png testkey.png): Remove unnecessary pictures`
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`08:22.48`	`*** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch)`
`08:27.13`	`buz`	`The thing we can promise at this point is a faster CPU. We're still`
`08:27.13`	`buz`	`working on the WiFi stuff. Graphics acceleration is much later.`
`08:27.17`	`buz`	`(thats from sean himself)`
`08:30.04`	`buz`	`what faster cpu has no graphic acceleration at all?`
`08:31.12`	`koen`	`most arm CPUs`
`08:31.48`	`buz`	`well but which ones are likely candidates?`
`08:32.07`	`koen`	`my guess would be other samsung s3c chips`
`08:35.37`	`*** join/#openmoko NatureTM (n=theking@CPE-70-94-38-157.wi.res.rr.com)`
`08:35.42`	`buz`	`oh i thought the s3c2440 had graphics accelerator`
`08:35.45`	`buz`	`but it has not`
`08:38.45`	`*** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu)`
`08:42.45`	`hrw`	`morning`
`08:44.17`	`*** join/#openmoko Harlekin (n=Harlekin@p5496B5C4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`08:45.59`	`aloril`	`easy mail, just copy faq entry ;-) (community ML)`
`08:50.11`	`koen`	`buz: btw, most 'graphic acceleration' is either useless or require closed drivers`
`08:54.54`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net)`
`08:54.59`	`denis^da`	`But it is cool to get information now about the v2 neo`
`08:55.14`	`denis^da`	`just a few but that is ok`
`08:55.16`	`*** join/#openmoko sabor (n=mf@fehu.rola.ch)`
`09:04.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`Really, really trivial accelleration can help quite a lot in many cases. Just blitters, that can do 'copy rectangle from here to here'.`
`09:06.28`	`koen`	`SpeedEvil: most 'accel' is either YUV overlay or *dct`
`09:06.44`	`koen`	`then it jumps to "3d"`
`09:07.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yeah.`
`09:07.33`	`koen`	`having a bit of fast vram would be nice`
`09:07.52`	`koen`	`that way you can do offscreen rendering that isn't dog slow`
`09:08.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`You mean a seperate accellerator core?`
`09:08.54`	`koen`	`no, just some dedicated videoram`
`09:09.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`We need to copy from the Sinclair ZX81.`
`09:09.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`'FAST' mode - that blanks the display and does no RAM access. And SLOW mode that does video output.`
`09:09.55`	`aloril`	`there is one reason for beefy FPGA: develop stuff first for it and then make ASIC for actual usage (kind of P1 vs P2)`
`09:09.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`09:10.11`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yeah.`
`09:10.20`	`aloril`	`but then.. not many want to have enough batteries with them to do above ;-)`
`09:11.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`Optimising for ASIC is hard though.`
`09:11.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`As not all optimised for FPGA designs translate cleanly AIUI.`
`09:11.33`	`aloril`	`going from FPGA to ASIC is big step?`
`09:11.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`Generally not, but the optimisations are different, as I understand it.`
`09:12.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`Plus, the number of VHDL coders is much smaller than C/..`
`09:13.43`	`SpeedEvil`	`For example, if you need a 14 input AND gate, that may not be a standard block on the FPGA, but it can be easily added to the ASIC.`
`09:13.46`	`*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`09:13.49`	`koen`	`meh`
`09:13.56`	`koen`	`openmoko stuff doesn't build again`
`09:14.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`:(`
`09:14.14`	`koen`	`can those people at least try to compile stuff after a change?`
`09:16.49`	`koen`	`~lart tony guan`
`09:17.12`	`koen`	`http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/contacts.c?rev=1147&view=diff&r1=1147&r2=1146&p1=trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/contacts.c&p2=/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/src/contacts.c`
`09:17.17`	`koen`	`that looks bogus to me`
`09:17.35`	`koen`	`var = 1 ; if (var==1)....`
`09:23.22`	`rwhitby`	`I wonder if the FIC developers have been educated about the friendly response they will get on IRC here :-)`
`09:24.06`	`koen`	`thank god they're not japanese`
`09:25.24`	`*** join/#openmoko dom (n=dom@juicy.ecs.soton.ac.uk)`
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`09:32.57`	`koen`	`well, 'svn up -r1146' fixes the problem`
`09:33.42`	`koen`	`revision 1147 does what it intends to do: you can't segfault an app that doesn't build`
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`09:46.34`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03rwhitby * r25 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-1146/: Tag patches at 1146`
`09:48.15`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03rwhitby * r26 10mokomakefile/trunk/Makefile: Freeze MokoMakefile at r1146 until head is fixed`
`09:51.06`	`CM`	`~lart Excel`
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`10:10.45`	`koen`	`it didn't help that "matchbox-panel --help" gives you the wrong syntax`
`10:13.57`	`rwhitby`	`hmm - there is no way to set individual revs for openmoko apps in the current build framework.`
`10:14.22`	`xkr47`	`koen, update wiki :-)`
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`10:15.06`	`koen`	`rwhitby: which is why I don't use all that SRCDATE="now" nonsense the moko people seem to love`
`10:15.21`	`rwhitby`	`koen: your 'svn up -r1146' was a manual set in sources/svn, right?`
`10:15.28`	`rwhitby`	`s/set/step/`
`10:15.46`	`koen`	`bitbake -b openmoko-dialer_svn.bb -c devshell`
`10:15.52`	`koen`	`svn up -r1146`
`10:16.08`	`rwhitby`	`right. not easy to automate :-)`
`10:16.21`	`koen`	`but SRCDATE_openmoko-dialer = "daybeforetonybrokeit" should work as well`
`10:16.34`	`rwhitby`	`ah, yes. thx.`
`10:17.02`	`rwhitby`	`Is there a SRCREV equivalent for the SVN fetcher?`
`10:17.59`	`koen`	`only SRC_URI = "svn://host/blah;rev=1146"`
`10:18.44`	`koen`	`in bitbake 1.7.x, that is`
`10:18.51`	`koen`	`1.6.x might not even have that`
`10:18.59`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, difficult to do on an app by app basis. looks like 1.6.x has it.`
`10:19.19`	`rwhitby`	`(difficult to do in the current openmoko-base.bbclass situation)`
`10:19.25`	`koen`	`it would be nice to have an SCMREV or SRCREV, though`
`10:20.00`	`rwhitby`	`like 'revision = Fetch.getSRCRevision(d)`
`10:20.00`	`rwhitby`	`' ...`
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`10:20.55`	`koen`	`rwhitby: it is funny that openmoko is so conservative with the OE metadata, but don't have any safeguards against their internal breakages`
`10:21.10`	`koen`	`which you solve in your makefile and I in OE proper`
`10:21.35`	`rwhitby`	`koen: I suspect that mickeyl is buffering the FIC developers from OE completely.`
`10:22.12`	`koen`	`and sadly mickeyl only has 24 hours in his day`
`10:22.21`	`hrw`	`koen: 1.6.4/1.6.6 has it`
`10:22.25`	`rwhitby`	`(hence the target/OM-2007 stuff and how the .bb files grab it from there)`
`10:23.06`	`rwhitby`	`the build instructions should really say to co openmoko/trunk/oe, not openmoko, cause the other stuff under openmoko is never used (as the svn fetch pulls it in under sources/svn ...)`
`10:23.53`	`rwhitby`	`and then the preferred-versions should have SRCREV variables in it, and should say HEAD, or a known good svn rev ...`
`10:23.57`	`Helmi`	`i'm just surfing the wiki for graphic design information for openmoko. does anyone know where i can find some or probably anyone knows the name of the font that's used in the logo?`
`10:24.02`	`koen`	`people that followed the official build instructions haven't been able to build stuff for the past weeks`
`10:24.17`	`rwhitby`	`not without mokomakefile, no.`
`10:24.24`	`koen`	`right`
`10:25.18`	`koen`	`so you need to use the mokomakefile or not use the fic bbcollection to get stuff done`
`10:25.21`	`rwhitby`	`although there are really only two downloads and two patches at the moment (one to omit uboot cause it doesn't build, and the other to mainmenu for the -lmb thingo)`
`10:25.30`	`rwhitby`	`koen: yup`
`10:25.58`	`rwhitby`	`which is why I suspect that the FIC developers are using neither, and are just working directly in the SVN without OE at all`
`10:26.13`	`koen`	`that, or they don't test at all`
`10:26.33`	`CM`	`Helmi: Do you mean for applications or just the logo?`
`10:27.01`	`Helmi`	`CM: primarly i'm interested in the logo font - didn't see any application shots yet`
`10:27.20`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, logo font would be nice for related web sites :-)`
`10:27.44`	`CM`	`Hehe`
`10:27.48`	`CM`	`Helmi: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel`
`10:28.33`	`koen`	`rwhitby: iirc chinese new year end right around now, so lets hope we'll see some improvement`
`10:28.52`	`Helmi`	`CM: thanks for the link - should i find something related to the logo font there or just the shots?`
`10:28.52`	`aloril`	`Helmi: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once)`
`10:29.12`	`CM`	`Helmi: Nothing about the logo font afaict`
`10:29.21`	`Helmi`	`CM: ok thanks anyway`
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`10:41.18`	`Elrond`	`counter`
`10:41.19`	`aloril`	`P0: 4 days 00:39:20 (4.027 +-4.0 days); P1: 26.055 +-10.0 (see faq) (423)`
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`10:44.31`	`aloril`	`this time faq autotrigger wasn't useful`
`10:46.32`	`Elrond`	`aloril - Where is the +-10 coming from?`
`10:46.48`	`aloril`	`Helmi: I guess source is your friend currently`
`10:47.14`	`aloril`	`Elrond: just guess: 2007-02-25 seems to be target date, but it can go to April too`
`10:47.27`	`aloril`	`probably - part is not correct ;-)`
`10:47.51`	`Helmi`	`aloril: sorry can't follow you!?`
`10:47.59`	`Elrond`	`aloril - s/02/03 you mean. ;)`
`10:48.28`	`aloril`	`Elrond: yeah`
`10:50.45`	`aloril`	`Helmi: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/gtkrc`
`10:50.53`	`rwhitby`	`koen: I wonder if we can convince mickeyl to put a SRCREV in openmoko-base.bbclass and use SRCREV=HEAD in preferred-versions instead of SRCDATE ...`
`10:51.19`	`Helmi`	`aloril: should this help finding the logo font from openmoko?`
`10:51.49`	`aloril`	`Helmi: from that file: font_name = "Vera Sans 16"`
`10:52.13`	`Helmi`	`hmm no - that's not the logo font (you know the one on the webpage with the nice signet next to it)`
`10:52.46`	`CM`	`I guess only the designer knows that one. I've only seen it in images and press stuff, not in any screenshot`
`10:52.47`	`aloril`	`Helmi: duh, I read it "font used in openmoko apps"`
`10:53.26`	`Helmi`	`aloril: CM asked if it's just about the logo font or the apps to and sent me a link to see some screenshots of apps - but i'm primarly loooking for the font used in the logo - thanks anyway#`
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`11:00.44`	`TRIsoft`	`morning :-)`
`11:04.22`	`rwhitby`	`aha. SRC_URI from openmoko-base.bbclass conveniently doesn't have a space at the end, so you can append ";rev=1146" to it in the .bb file ...`
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`11:07.18`	`vlad-7`	`hi all!`
`11:07.28`	`rwhitby`	`koen: any idea why 'SRC_URI .= "rev=1146"' would cause "ERROR: too many values to unpack while parsing /home/moko/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-dial`
`11:07.29`	`rwhitby`	`er_svn.bb" ?`
`11:08.03`	`koen`	`wouldn't SRC_URI_append work better?`
`11:08.26`	`rwhitby`	`that doesn't add a space?`
`11:08.38`	`rwhitby`	`(oh, only += adds a space?)`
`11:10.26`	`rwhitby`	`nope, SRC_URI_append gives the same error. I wonder if this is a bitbake 1.6.x problem ...`
`11:11.05`	`koen`	`I bet SRCDATE = "now" and ;rev=1146 don't go well together`
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`11:11.35`	`rwhitby`	`no, I looked at that specifically in svn.py, and rev overrides date.`
`11:12.35`	`rwhitby`	`(and I commented out all the svnnow stuff anyway)`
`11:16.46`	`rwhitby`	`hmm - scratch that idea then. No idea how to make that work :-(`
`11:17.33`	`koen`	`call FIC, have someone throw a bucket of water on tony to wake him up and have him fix it`
`11:17.42`	`koen`	`or just inject an antipatch`
`11:17.44`	`rwhitby`	`oh, hang on, I see my error.`
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`11:19.18`	`rwhitby`	`that's better. I just forgot the leading ';'`
`11:21.27`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03rwhitby * r27 10mokomakefile/trunk/ (5 files in 3 dirs): Freeze openmoko-dialer at r1146 until compile error is fixed. Unfreeze everything else to HEAD again. Commit a checkpoint set of patches at 1146.`
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`11:22.02`	`rwhitby`	`ok, that's a general recipe for freezing individual apps at a certain rev ...`
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`11:36.28`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03laforge * r1160 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/libgsmd/libgsmd_device.c: add missing file from Commit rev. 1155 (tony guan)`
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`11:55.09`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03laforge * r1161 10/trunk/src/target/gsm/ (5 files in 3 dirs): revert 'bug108' patch from tony guan.`
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`12:00.14`	`koen`	`heh`
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`12:00.31`	`koen`	`it seems tony is going to have a bad day`
`12:03.29`	`aloril`	`hmm.. laforge edited [[Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973]], I wonder if that means anything about shipping going to be soon?`
`12:03.31`	`aloril`	`counter`
`12:03.31`	`aloril`	`P0: 3 days 23:58:14 (3.999 +-4.0 days); P1: 25.998 +-10.0 (see faq) (424)`
`12:04.47`	`koen`	`aloril: shipping should start after chinese new year`
`12:04.50`	`koen`	`e.g. now`
`12:04.53`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03thomas * r1162 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-dialer/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/contacts.c): * Clean up configure.ac and add a check for EContactPhotoType. Fixes bug 219.`
`12:05.09`	`koen`	`yay!`
`12:12.15`	`koen`	`hmmm`
`12:12.29`	`koen`	`according to wikipedia there are still ~5 days left in chinese new year`
`12:14.15`	`aloril`	`koen: actual vacation was only 1 week of it?`
`12:14.29`	`koen`	`that's what I heard`
`12:14.32`	`koen`	`but which week?`
`12:14.54`	`aloril`	`last week?`
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`12:16.06`	`aloril`	`dunno how much additional time they need for cable + other problems, if week enough, then I guess shipping soon`
`12:20.04`	`_buz`	`http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadgetmobile/~3/97284837/ for all of those who think 2.8inch is too smal`
`12:20.09`	`_buz`	`(talk about geeky)`
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`12:33.55`	`CM`	`koen: The vacation week ended last sunday`
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`12:34.02`	`koen`	`ah, cool`
`12:34.13`	`CM`	`At least the cinese chef here is back, and that's a sure sign`
`12:34.20`	`koen`	`:)`
`12:34.59`	`CM`	`Also, read this, less good: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/28/chinese_gaming_fatality/`
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`12:48.26`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03rwhitby * r28 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/series: Disable openmoko-dialer patch, since upstream has fixed the bug.`
`12:53.36`	`greentux`	`morning`
`12:58.08`	`hrw`	`hi greentux`
`13:00.04`	`greentux`	`hi hrw`
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`13:09.12`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03rwhitby * r29 10mokomakefile/trunk/ (Makefile patches/openmoko-HEAD/series):`
`13:09.12`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: Enable mokomakefile patches which disable the 'svnnow' paradigm, and provide a`
`13:09.12`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 'force-rebuild' makefile target to allow developers to have a build environment`
`13:09.12`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: that doesn't rebuild everything every time it is executed, yet also allows them`
`13:09.12`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: to easily force the rebuild all the openmoko apps that would otherwise be`
`13:09.14`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: tracking svnnow.`
`13:09.58`	`cjb`	`rwhitby: hey, around?`
`13:10.01`	`rwhitby`	`yup`
`13:10.12`	`cjb`	`rwhitby: I was wondering what a good way to skip/revert openmoko-dialer is.`
`13:10.24`	`rwhitby`	`cjb: it's fixed`
`13:10.31`	`cjb`	`cool, I'll just rerun, then.`
`13:10.40`	`rwhitby`	`make update-patches first`
`13:11.15`	`rwhitby`	`and enjoy the new removal of the svnnow stuff, replaced by a 'force-rebuild' makefile target for when you want to rebuild the svnnow marked apps.`
`13:11.17`	`cjb`	`whoa. I just did make openmoko-devel-image again and it started at gta01-kernel-2.6.. does it not go back to the last package that didn't build?`
`13:11.22`	`cjb`	`:)`
`13:11.29`	`rwhitby`	`it didn't before. now it will.`
`13:11.54`	`cjb`	`well okay then :)`
`13:12.02`	`*** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca)`
`13:12.35`	`rwhitby`	`took me a while to work out the right perl->xargs->find->xargs->rm to force a rebuild of the precise apps that openmoko sets to svnnow.`
`13:12.43`	`cjb`	`neat.`
`13:12.54`	`cjb`	`thanks!`
`13:13.15`	`rwhitby`	`so I have a patch which comments out the svnnow stuff, and a correponding makefile target which forces the same behaviour on the next build only.`
`13:13.44`	`rwhitby`	`much more civilised (in my opinion at least)`
`13:14.15`	`koen`	`forcing SRCDATE to 'now' should never be needed`
`13:14.34`	`rwhitby`	`koen: FIC devs and OpenMoko devs are not touching PR - that's why it's being used.`
`13:14.46`	`koen`	`rwhitby: actually, now`
`13:15.06`	`koen`	`s/now/no/`
`13:15.26`	`rwhitby`	`that was the reason mickeyl gave me directly.`
`13:15.57`	`koen`	`it's because developers wanted to checkout revs they just committed`
`13:16.02`	`koen`	`which can't be done with PR`
`13:16.30`	`rwhitby`	`nod`
`13:16.55`	`rwhitby`	`koen: how would you recommend that goal be achieved?`
`13:17.06`	`koen`	`I wouldn't`
`13:17.10`	`koen`	`but if people insist:`
`13:17.22`	`*** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161)`
`13:17.23`	`koen`	`do_configure_prepend() { svn up }`
`13:18.04`	`rwhitby`	`koen: wouldn't you need to combine that with removing stamps or incrementing PRs ?`
`13:18.19`	`koen`	`not really`
`13:18.34`	`koen`	`just set no_stamp[] appropriately`
`13:19.10`	`koen`	`it will break the assumption that SRCDATE = "<date>" will always build the same rev (midnight GMT)`
`13:19.51`	`koen`	`if you want to build stuff you are working on, I'd recommend devshell`
`13:20.32`	`rwhitby`	`yeah, but mickey wants that to happen across multiple people and sites`
`13:20.53`	`rwhitby`	`(with people who don't know how to use devshell)`
`13:20.53`	`koen`	`it's fundamentally flawed`
`13:21.07`	`koen`	`OE isnt a development system`
`13:21.13`	`koen`	`even if we want it to be`
`13:21.17`	`*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)`
`13:21.36`	`rwhitby`	`I'm not arguing that point, but given the OpenMoko core devs goal, I'm looking for the best way to meet that goal (rather than arguing against their decision)`
`13:21.38`	`koen`	`but I can see the trouble trying to explain that to non open-source developers in asia`
`13:22.07`	`rwhitby`	`and meet it in a way which doesn't force a rebuild of all openmoko packages every time you type bitbake ...`
`13:22.23`	`koen`	`rwhitby: I don't think non-FIC employees would need/want srcdate-"now" behaviour`
`13:22.55`	`koen`	`especially seeing that commits to svn are rare`
`13:23.08`	`rwhitby`	`koen: agreed - that's why I've turned it off in mokomakefile now`
`13:23.15`	`koen`	`(and that half of the commits get reverted anyway)`
`13:23.56`	`koen`	`people advanced enough to want rebuild can figure out -c rebuild themselves, right?`
`13:24.32`	`rwhitby`	`ah, but one may only want to rebuild the apps which are marked as svnnow, which is what I've just added with the force-rebuild target.`
`13:24.49`	`rwhitby`	`(assuming that all others apps are having PR updated properly)`
`13:25.03`	`koen`	`I really suspect the 'now' tag is arbritrary`
`13:25.31`	`koen`	`in the sense of "we need to finish this before going public"`
`13:27.51`	`*** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-218-82.telkomadsl.co.za)`
`13:29.23`	`rwhitby`	`Anyway, I believe what i just committed to mokomakefile will give external devs the ability to not have everything rebuild every time, but be able to comply with the goal of the openmoko core devs (svnnow for a specific set of packages only) on demand`
`13:29.59`	`rwhitby`	`irrespective of the sensibility of the goal, or whether that's the best way to use openembedded or not.`
`13:32.21`	`rwhitby`	`it's early march - where's my Neo :-)`
`13:35.37`	`*** join/#openmoko quitte (n=quitte@stgt-d9beb454.pool.mediaWays.net)`
`13:36.45`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net)`
`13:46.13`	`*** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu)`
`13:51.45`	`*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net)`
`13:54.24`	`*** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch)`
`13:59.52`	`robtaylor`	`mickeyl: i'm gonna start writing a patch to get udev and hal startup times down. could you do me a favour and do /sbin/udevd --daemon; time /sbin/udevsynthesize ?`
`14:00.02`	`robtaylor`	`on the neo hardware?`
`14:00.23`	`robtaylor`	`(or in fact anyone with some neo hardware..)`
`14:02.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`We need a 'scripts for people with neos to run' on the wiki.`
`14:04.40`	`*** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd)`
`14:04.41`	`*** join/#openmoko Croute (n=kal@bob13-1-82-242-174-230.fbx.proxad.net)`
`14:04.43`	`LuitvD`	`but if I'm sane after tomorrow I'll try to do whatever I can do for openmoko :)`
`14:05.04`	`LuitvD`	`after tomorrow's presentations, I'll finally have some free time :)`
`14:05.11`	`Croute`	`lo`
`14:05.21`	`LuitvD`	`hey...`
`14:07.25`	`*** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com)`
`14:08.24`	`robtaylor`	`mickeyl: also can you tell me wether you have a /sys/subsystem with your current kernel`
`14:09.44`	`koen`	`robtaylor: try mailing mickeyl, better response time :)`
`14:10.07`	`robtaylor`	`koen:well, its not a huge rush`
`14:10.24`	`robtaylor`	`koen: just want to premtivly gather some data for convincing upstreams`
`14:11.03`	`koen`	`you could build an image for your sharp tosser`
`14:11.12`	`robtaylor`	`koen: actually, if you have any machines with a slowish processor, that'd be good`
`14:11.20`	`robtaylor`	`koen: don't have it any more:(`
`14:11.30`	`robtaylor`	`only arms i have now are omaps`
`14:11.46`	`hrw`	`sa1100/206 here is slowest`
`14:11.52`	`hrw`	`but 2.4 not 2.6 rather`
`14:12.04`	`robtaylor`	`hrw:damn, otherwise, that'd be perfect ;)`
`14:12.30`	`SpeedEvil`	`no udevd though.`
`14:12.31`	`koen`	`<PROTECTED>`
`14:12.38`	`koen`	`(600MHz armv5)`
`14:12.58`	`robtaylor`	`koen: wow, the n800 hardware really is quite good...`
`14:13.13`	`robtaylor`	`koen: 1.25 here`
`14:13.21`	`koen`	`real 0m1.375s`
`14:14.10`	`robtaylor`	`you see, my hypothesis is thatmost of this time is scanning sysfs and responding to the kevents`
`14:14.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`Sounds not unreasonable.`
`14:14.25`	`robtaylor`	`as its almost the same between udev and hal`
`14:14.43`	`robtaylor`	`so i'm a) going to make udev dump out the events`
`14:14.58`	`robtaylor`	`b) make hal able to load in the dump instead of scanning itself`
`14:15.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`I wonder how bad a canned suspend image, mounting a fixed partition would be, just before it mounts /data.`
`14:15.15`	`*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)`
`14:15.15`	`robtaylor`	`and c) make udev able to load in the dump rather than doing the scan`
`14:15.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`would be.`
`14:15.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`silly idea prolly.`
`14:15.25`	`koen`	`14:14:38.422 [I] hald_dbus.c:1038: volume.partition.uuid ->`
`14:15.25`	`koen`	`14:14:38.431 [I] blockdev.c:352: entering; exit_type=0, return_code=0`
`14:15.26`	`koen`	`Segmentation fault`
`14:15.28`	`koen`	`woops`
`14:15.43`	`robtaylor`	`koen: urrk, is that with latest git?`
`14:15.58`	`koen`	`root@hx4700:/usr/bin# hald --version`
`14:15.59`	`koen`	`HAL package version: 0.5.8.1`
`14:16.22`	`robtaylor`	`koen: ah, i'm not entirely suprised then`
`14:16.31`	`hrw`	`my husky (pxa255/400) lack time command and run secret things`
`14:30.30`	`*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B96A6.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`14:36.31`	`gtodd`	`openmoko for Africa :-)`
`14:36.45`	`gtodd`	`www.connectivityafrica.org`
`14:39.23`	`Elrond`	`Is PXA arm compatible?`
`14:39.30`	`pH5`	`yes`
`14:39.31`	`koen`	`no`
`14:39.34`	`koen`	`PXA is arm`
`14:39.55`	`Stephmw`	`ARM doesn't manufacture chips, they just sell the specs :)`
`14:40.10`	`koen`	`"IP"`
`14:40.28`	`Stephmw`	`koen: wash your mouth out with soap, young man`
`14:40.37`	`Stephmw`	`can't believe I hear such foul language`
`14:41.59`	`pH5`	`:)`
`14:43.18`	`Elrond`	`G`
`14:43.52`	`Elrond`	`I'm looking at the HP iPAQ hw6915 and wonder, if neo's agpsd would run on the CPU.`
`14:45.35`	`koen`	`it's not a question of cpu`
`14:45.43`	`koen`	`it's a question of how you compile it`
`14:45.50`	`koen`	`and agpsd doesn't exist anymore`
`14:46.01`	`koen`	`global location is making it a plugin for regular gpsd`
`14:46.11`	`pH5`	`koen: will they provide oabi/eabi versions?`
`14:46.29`	`koen`	`pH5: I asked for an eabi version a while ago`
`14:47.10`	`koen`	`that's not hard`
`14:47.18`	`koen`	`since the gps is connected to a uart`
`14:47.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`However, it's probably bidirectional.`
`14:47.57`	`*** join/#openmoko jebba_ (n=jebba@OL80-42.fibertel.com.ar)`
`14:48.09`	`Elrond`	`SpeedEvil - I have an offer for the hw*. Doing the strace is top on my list.`
`14:48.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`some sort of communication in the other direction, or at least hopefully.`
`14:48.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`14:48.32`	`Elrond`	`SpeedEvil - But I must check some other things first.`
`14:48.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`It would be _really_ nice to when we wake up, be able to inform the hardware about relative satelite motion, before it starts looking.`
`14:49.01`	`Elrond`	`(I don't want to take the hw*, if I'm the lonesome cowboy trying to hack for it... I'm not really a hardware hacker.)`
`14:49.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`This would dramatically speed lock time - but it may not be able to do this.`
`14:49.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`Or agpsd /... may not support.`
`14:49.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`:)`
`14:50.14`	`Elrond`	`Yeah. It's rumoured, that the hw* has the same hammerhead. Although I have doubts. Reading some stuff about thw hw* it seems, it has two cjips for gps. While I guess the neo has only one.`
`14:50.58`	`Elrond`	`koen - Well, the "matter of compiling": As global locate does not proide sources, the provided binary has to run on the cpu.`
`14:51.29`	`SpeedEvil`	`the hammerhead, and a canned CPU will output 'normal' GPS.`
`14:52.32`	`SpeedEvil`	`which would probably be the usual route, if you diddn't care overly about cost.`
`14:52.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`Of course, there will be another chip, that's just an RF amp.`
`14:53.14`	`Elrond`	`Ahh.`
`14:53.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`If it's >10 pins or so, it won't be an RF amp.`
`14:53.42`	`Elrond`	`So the neo also has two chips? One "gps" and one "rf amp"?`
`14:54.04`	`Elrond`	`For the hw it seems to be this combo.`
`14:54.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yes - the GPS signal goes through a preamplifier and filters before hitting the hammerhead.`
`14:54.25`	`Elrond`	`Ahh, that makes it again more likely, that the chips are the same.`
`14:54.30`	`*** join/#openmoko tn1 (n=tnb@sdgsystems.net)`
`14:54.53`	`Elrond`	`Still leaves the question, if the plugin (for the neo) works on the hw*-cpu`
`14:55.01`	`koen`	`Elrond: I can give you binaries that run on a s3c2410 cpu, but not on your neo, unless you recompile the base image`
`14:55.18`	`koen`	`Elrond: so yes, it's a matter of compile options`
`14:55.30`	`SpeedEvil`	`Well - the RF amp will not usually appear on any busses.`
`14:55.46`	`SpeedEvil`	`it's a dumb, very small (mechanically) part.`
`14:56.20`	`*** join/#openmoko Matt_PI (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141)`
`14:57.11`	`Elrond`	`SpeedEvil - Sounds much like the hw* descriptions I've read.`
`14:58.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`http://www.maxim-ic.com/appnotes.cfm/appnote_number/3447 is probably a similar chip - apart from the fact that it outputs slightly less cooked information, in an analog, not digital form.`
`14:58.49`	`Elrond`	`SpeedEvil - http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=SableGPS has some data on the hw* GPS`
`14:58.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`the filters and stuff leading to it'll be similar.`
`15:02.06`	`*** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl)`
`15:02.49`	`Elrond`	`http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#AGPS suggests, that the neo has only one chip, that does both? (amplify and process) ?`
`15:03.37`	`*** join/#openmoko spikebik1 (n=bill@iris.t-s.net)`
`15:03.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`no, it doesn't.`
`15:04.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`The global locate chip referred to on the wiki is a bit smarter than teh hammerhead AIUI.`
`15:04.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's certainly a different chip.`
`15:04.37`	`Elrond`	`So the wiki is "wrong"?`
`15:04.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`Sorry - I was wrong.`
`15:05.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`The hammerhead needs no RF preamp.`
`15:05.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`I was assuming, as every other GPS chip I'd seen did.`
`15:05.41`	`Elrond`	`So the ipaq hw* and the neo have different gps hardware?`
`15:06.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yes - according to the wiki page posted earlier.`
`15:06.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`The ipaq has a RF amp, and a different GPS chip.`
`15:07.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`The writeups are very different - it's hard to say what the exact differences are, due to the poor spec of the hammerhead.`
`15:07.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'd love to know where global locate get 'An estimated 65.2 million users will be playing location games by 2008.'`
`15:08.10`	`Elrond`	`lol`
`15:08.24`	`Elrond`	`They probably refer to geocache. ;o)`
`15:08.35`	`Elrond`	`(I have not geocache numbers.)`
`15:08.55`	`so_solid_moo`	`I think they mean hide and seek.`
`15:09.08`	`Elrond`	`G`
`15:09.42`	`SpeedEvil`	`Ah - yes. the GL-20000 uses a 'front end' chip, which converts the satellite signal to a ~1Mhz digital stream.`
`15:10.00`	`SpeedEvil`	`which is the one in the hw* gps`
`15:10.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`The hammerhead is a 'one chip' solution, which goed from GPS-CPU in one chip.`
`15:11.25`	`Elrond`	`Yep.`
`15:11.31`	`*** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com)`
`15:11.44`	`Elrond`	`But due to bad specs, we know nothing about the procotol of both.`
`15:11.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`Also, 1s to first fix (5m) for hammerhead.`
`15:12.25`	`*** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com)`
`15:12.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`So, you can probably turn it on and off every 30s for 1/30th of the power - around a milliwatt, or 2% battery per day.`
`15:15.01`	`LuitvD`	`does the chip support interrupt timers like that?`
`15:15.18`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03thomas * r1163 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/artwork/themes/openmoko-standard/gtk-2.0/mokodetailswindow:`
`15:15.18`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: * Set MokoDetailsWindow background as per mockup on`
`15:15.19`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: <http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Look_%26_Feel#Native_Stylus-Based>`
`15:15.45`	`Elrond`	`LuitvD - You mean the CPU of the Neo? Yes.`
`15:15.53`	`LuitvD`	`hmm, nice :)`
`15:16.05`	`*** join/#openmoko jserv2 (n=jserv@linux3.cc.ntu.edu.tw)`
`15:16.22`	`*** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com)`
`15:16.24`	`*** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@mail.americanmicrosystems.com)`
`15:16.29`	`LuitvD`	`knew my microchips had that feature (using a osc/64 timer to interrupt for 5 cycles, and go back to sleep)`
`15:17.14`	`LuitvD`	`(or even more... can do OSC/65536 timers on some of my microchips... with built-in interrupt)`
`15:17.24`	`SpeedEvil`	`Unfortunately.`
`15:17.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`There is no 'deep suspend' mode.`
`15:17.43`	`SpeedEvil`	`The lowest power mode is 50mW or so.`
`15:17.57`	`LuitvD`	`that's low enough...`
`15:18.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`So this means getting suspend to ram working.`
`15:18.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`or living with 2 day ish battery life.`
`15:18.22`	`LuitvD`	`2-days?`
`15:18.31`	`LuitvD`	`err...`
`15:18.35`	`LuitvD`	`what do you mean?`
`15:18.37`	`SpeedEvil`	`50mw = around 2-3 days battery life.`
`15:18.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`with the processor on in slow mode.`
`15:18.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`You need to suspend it to RAM to get better.`
`15:19.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`And yes, it's got wakeup interrupts.`
`15:19.11`	`_buz`	`1200mah*3.6V~4000mwh`
`15:19.27`	`LuitvD`	`yeah...`
`15:19.31`	`LuitvD`	`hmm...`
`15:19.48`	`SpeedEvil`	`I was using 3*1200, as there is some inefficicncy in the regulators.`
`15:19.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`which is 70 hours or so.`
`15:19.58`	`LuitvD`	`so on a 1200mAh battery it's 3-4 days at 50mW`
`15:20.15`	`_buz`	`yeah but you need some for gsm module too`
`15:20.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`IIRC 30mW was mentioned on the wiki.`
`15:20.42`	`SpeedEvil`	`for GSM`
`15:20.42`	`_buz`	`2d is really not much`
`15:21.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yeah - we _really_ need suspend-RAM to work well.`
`15:23.54`	`_buz`	`mhh samsung has full docs for s3c2443 online`
`15:24.19`	`noidd`	`and its at moments like this we're happy we have a small amount of RAM`
`15:24.29`	`vmaster`	`_buz: that one is really interesting - didn't know about a ARM920t that goes up to 533mhz`
`15:24.35`	`noidd`	`speaking of - can I ask a really stupid newb question`
`15:24.51`	`SpeedEvil`	`It doesn't have a camera.`
`15:24.52`	`noidd`	`actually, nm. I think I just answered it`
`15:24.54`	`noidd`	`hah`
`15:25.00`	`noidd`	`is the RAM non-volatile ?`
`15:25.08`	`noidd`	`I'm guessing not`
`15:25.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`no.`
`15:25.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`but, it uses negligable power in self-refresh.`
`15:25.20`	`_buz`	`now if i could find power consumption data`
`15:25.21`	`noidd`	`so if you have 128M of flash and 64M RAM`
`15:25.21`	`vmaster`	`it has a quite low-poer self-refresh`
`15:25.23`	`noidd`	`...`
`15:25.26`	`SpeedEvil`	`IIRC it'll last around a year.`
`15:25.31`	`noidd`	`doesn't that mean you`
`15:25.31`	`prpplague`	`_buz: yea, samsung is trying to push all of its current 2440 customers into going with the 2443`
`15:25.32`	`noidd`	`bingo`
`15:25.41`	`_buz`	`the stacked one is interesting, comes with upto 512mbit ram and 2gbit nand on the same module`
`15:25.45`	`prpplague`	`_buz: problem is they increased the pin count on the 2443`
`15:26.07`	`prpplague`	`_buz: and the cost for using a 2443 instead of a 2440 is pretty high`
`15:26.19`	`_buz`	`2440 is not even linked to anymore`
`15:26.19`	`SpeedEvil`	`CPU makers love stacking.`
`15:26.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`Because they control the vertical, _and_ the horizontal.`
`15:26.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`(sorry).`
`15:26.53`	`prpplague`	`_buz: thats actually an accident that has never been corrected, they still make the 2440 and haven't even considered EOL'n it yet`
`15:27.04`	`prpplague`	`_buz: just can't seen to get anyone to fix the website`
`15:28.01`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: 03thomas * r1164 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-contacts/ (ChangeLog src/contacts-contact-pane.c):`
`15:28.01`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: * src/contacts-contact-pane.c: (make_widget): Set a widget name for the field`
`15:28.01`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: label`
`15:28.01`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: (contacts_contact_pane_set_editable): Save the contact when switching to view`
`15:28.02`	`CIA-7`	`openmoko: mode`
`15:28.08`	`prpplague`	`we calculated an increase of around $18 to go with a 2443 instead of a 2440`
`15:28.09`	`_buz`	`Samsung Electronics has added iPhone to a rapidly expanding list of consumer electronics devices from Apple Inc. for which it supplies the primary SoC,`
`15:28.13`	`_buz`	`now that would be a surprise`
`15:28.46`	`_buz`	`i dont see how that gui would work without graphics acceleration`
`15:28.58`	`prpplague`	`_buz: if samsung is providing the SoC for apple i suspect it will be one of the 2442 series`
`15:29.52`	`_buz`	`or maybe apple gets a custom one`
`15:29.55`	`*** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@80-192-23-26.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk)`
`15:30.06`	`_buz`	`2442 has no acceleration either it seems`
`15:30.41`	`_buz`	`stacked config MCP4 : 512Mb mSDRAM (x32) + 2Gb NAND (x8)`
`15:30.48`	`_buz`	`bummer it cant be had with 128MB`
`15:31.24`	`pjz`	`anyone give me a hint why, when I try and build openmoko-panel-demo, I get complaints 'Required Matchbox Panel 2 >= 0.1 not installed' ?`
`15:32.00`	`vmaster`	`nice, samsung is planning an Cortex-A8N at up to 800mhz`
`15:32.22`	`_buz`	`i wonder why samsung can put whole manuals free for anyone`
`15:32.32`	`_buz`	`whereas Ti wont say a workd`
`15:32.38`	`vmaster`	`hehehe`
`15:32.41`	`vmaster`	`or Marvel`
`15:32.51`	`vmaster`	`or *`
`15:33.33`	`*** join/#openmoko gyaresu (n=gyaresu@124.243.158.56)`
`15:33.33`	`_buz`	`then again, samsung is in another league than marvel`
`15:34.16`	`*** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu)`
`15:40.24`	`PBeck`	`hi`
`15:40.45`	`*** join/#openmoko Matt_PI_ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141)`
`15:54.52`	`*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)`
`15:57.26`	`*** join/#openmoko chaoticz-blue (n=leo@213-140-11-133.fastres.net)`
`16:01.05`	`libervisco`	`http://www.mobiliberty.com/sean_moss_putz_openmoko_speech_fosdem_2007`
`16:04.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`Is that a better res version?`
`16:05.56`	`pH5`	`SpeedEvil: 640x480, 700something kbps mpeg-4`
`16:06.28`	`SpeedEvil`	`I mean, is the text visible.`
`16:07.03`	`libervisco`	`SpeedEvil, should be`
`16:07.16`	`libervisco`	`I only viewed the first few minutes so far, but it's a 350MB file`
`16:07.21`	`libervisco`	`google one is 80MB`
`16:08.26`	`libervisco`	`oh it's definitely better (just checked the google version, too small) :)`
`16:09.53`	`LuitvD`	`google version you can't even get the general idea of what's projected on that screen :P`
`16:10.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`This I think is maybe the one that I transcoded the google one from.`
`16:10.21`	`SpeedEvil`	`the google onewas 100M when uploaded.`
`16:10.29`	`libervisco`	`oh`
`16:10.59`	`*** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com)`
`16:11.03`	`*** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com)`
`16:11.19`	`*** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk)`
`16:11.32`	`libervisco`	`well, to be honest I don't know the details, I was given a private link from Ole in response to the thread about MobiLiberty on mailing list, because his bandwidth is too expensive..`
`16:11.32`	`*** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@194.152.122.177)`
`16:11.46`	`libervisco`	`so I uploaded to my server and then archive.org`
`16:12.40`	`libervisco`	`or more like downloaded to my VPS directly via SSH (my private upload is too expensive as well) :P`
`16:13.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`15fps?`
`16:13.15`	`Matt_PI_`	`get a torrent of it`
`16:14.25`	`Matt_PI_`	`if you create the torrent Ill seed`
`16:14.45`	`*** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@251.9.39-62.rev.gaoland.net)`
`16:14.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'm trying to work out how to upload video without google video transcoding it.`
`16:14.57`	`SpeedEvil`	`As that's a bit silly.`
`16:15.40`	`Matt_PI_`	`try DivX stage 6`
`16:15.57`	`libervisco`	`SpeedEvil, why not use Archive.org?`
`16:15.59`	`Matt_PI_`	`they will host the full video`
`16:16.21`	`libervisco`	`Matt_PI_, I'll try, never actually created torrents before (any my private connection doesn't support them)`
`16:16.32`	`Matt_PI_`	`ok`
`16:16.48`	`libervisco`	`can't be hard though, gonna give it a go :)`
`16:17.08`	`Matt_PI_`	`but DivX stage 6 is not a bad idea either`
`16:17.31`	`*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net)`
`16:18.56`	`Matt_PI_`	`Im not at home at the moment and on a slow wireless connection`
`16:19.23`	`Matt_PI_`	`but when I get home Ill download and superseed`
`16:20.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`I'm downloading the 350M video, and cropping off the screeen, and making it rectangular.`
`16:21.02`	`SpeedEvil`	`projector screen`
`16:21.28`	`Matt_PI_`	`Im hoping that p2p developers will code for open moko`
`16:21.48`	`Matt_PI_`	`I know of one developer that is serious about the platform`
`16:22.02`	`koen`	`cause bittorrent over gprs is soo much fun`
`16:22.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`It's just anohter frontend.`
`16:22.29`	`SpeedEvil`	`there are a number of command line p2ps.`
`16:22.38`	`*** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net)`
`16:22.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`from mldonkey, to the bittorrent original.`
`16:25.08`	`Matt_PI_`	`well that what he was considering he works for a commercial p2p comapny that has distribution agreements with the studios and record labels`
`16:25.56`	`*** join/#openmoko t0nY1 (n=nengyu@61-230-75-67.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`16:26.16`	`Matt_PI_`	`and then have streaming from your home server`
`16:26.23`	`*** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128)`
`16:26.25`	`SpeedEvil`	`That's a whole nother thing.`
`16:26.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`'legal' P2P is a silly concept in many ways IMO.`
`16:27.21`	`SpeedEvil`	`As the download cost of providing a server is a very small portion of the cost of song.`
`16:27.42`	`SpeedEvil`	`And why the hell should I pay twice (through reduction of upload quota) for a song?`
`16:28.23`	`Matt_PI_`	`his p2p system gives you a system credit`
`16:28.30`	`Matt_PI_`	`for uploading`
`16:29.06`	`*** part/#openmoko t0nY1 (n=nengyu@61-230-75-67.dynamic.hinet.net)`
`16:29.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`Ah.`
`16:29.18`	`Matt_PI_`	`and even with advertising they can revenue share with users`
`16:29.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`That's not so unreasonable then.`
`16:30.05`	`Matt_PI_`	`But bittorent is going to have a hard time convining paying customers to seed`
`16:30.57`	`aloril`	`that VGA version is a bit more clear, but still probably not enough to see all (well.. in theory probably possible to 'decode', but in practice not so easy)`
`16:32.57`	`*** join/#openmoko dom (n=dom@juicy.ecs.soton.ac.uk)`
`16:33.07`	`*** join/#openmoko dom__ (n=dom@juicy.ecs.soton.ac.uk)`
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`16:43.46`	`cjb`	`rwhitby: hm, everytime I restart make it's starting at the kernel again, and taking a few hours to get to the software. any ideas?`
`16:44.02`	`cjb`	`I'm running make openmoko-devel-image.`
`16:55.05`	`*** join/#openmoko msorc (n=mmm@nss.tns.org.ua)`
`16:55.41`	`*** part/#openmoko msorc (n=mmm@nss.tns.org.ua)`
`16:58.33`	`Magon`	`cjb: use prefered-version patchs`
`17:03.59`	`_buz`	`i would seed. in exchange for free movie of course`
`17:04.29`	`_buz`	`heck i might even throw a few 10mbit colo accounts at that ;)`
`17:04.46`	`_buz`	`but vga, no way`
`17:06.46`	`cjb`	`hm: svn: PROPFIND of '/repos/dates/branches/openmoko': Server certificate verificat`
`17:06.46`	`cjb`	`ion failed: issuer is not trusted (https://svn.o-hand.com)`
`17:06.46`	`cjb`	`NOTE: Task failed: Fetch failed: openmoko`
`17:06.54`	`cjb`	`how should I add that key to svn?`
`17:09.51`	`hrw`	`cjb: press 'p' when it ask what to do`
`17:10.18`	`cjb`	`it didn't ask; it failed out of the makefile.`
`17:10.33`	`cjb`	`so I'm trying svn co svn://svn.o-hand.com/repos/dates/branches;module=openmoko;proto=https, but that just hangs`
`17:10.37`	`cjb`	`does it work for anyone else?`
`17:10.50`	`*** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668268.dsl.bell.ca)`
`17:12.01`	`hrw`	`cjb: then change https to http`
`17:12.25`	`cjb`	`tried that, I think. does it work for you?`
`17:12.33`	`*** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`17:12.52`	`hrw`	`cjb: I did not yet build openmoko`
`17:13.09`	`hrw`	`cjb: and if I will try then I will use OE .dev instead of openmoko version`
`17:13.20`	`CM`	`~change 1375000 SEK to USD`
`17:13.21`	`cjb`	`I guess I'm wondering if just svn co svn://svn.o-hand.com/repos/dates/branches;module=openmoko;proto=http works for anyone`
`17:13.21`	`cjb`	`<PROTECTED>`
`17:15.04`	`aloril`	`about 8 minutes to rm 283GB file (22s sys time) ;-)`
`17:15.23`	`buz`	`ONE file?`
`17:15.47`	`cjb`	`aloril: which fs?`
`17:15.59`	`aloril`	`one file, ext3`
`17:16.15`	`cjb`	`huh. I must misunderstand ext3 unlinking.`
`17:17.18`	`*** join/#openmoko aevin (n=brootvor@150.80-203-127.nextgentel.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`17:17.23`	`*** join/#openmoko jebba_ (n=jebba@OL80-42.fibertel.com.ar)`
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`17:17.48`	`*** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-161-154.pools.arcor-ip.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`17:18.11`	`*** join/#openmoko CM (i=cm@shaka.acc.umu.se) [NETSPLIT VICTIM]`
`17:27.15`	`*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)`
`17:30.57`	`koen`	`hrw\|gone: wait till tomorrow to build openmoko, to get a bugfix in the dialer source`
`17:31.38`	`Elrond`	`counter`
`17:31.39`	`aloril`	`P0: 3 days 21:14:10 (3.885 +-3.9 days); P1: 25.770 +-10.0 (see faq) (425)`
`17:31.57`	`LuitvD`	`:)`
`17:32.18`	`LuitvD`	`oh, yesterday it was 8 days, now it's 4 :P`
`17:32.31`	`Elrond`	`Yes, +-4 days ;o)`
`17:32.32`	`LuitvD`	`+/- 8 (still makes eight)`
`17:32.39`	`LuitvD`	`s/8/4/`
`17:38.09`	`*** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz)`
`17:38.18`	`*** join/#openmoko PirateHead (n=piratehe@AC96BC96.ipt.aol.com)`
`17:38.48`	`PirateHead`	`The neo1973 is hawt.`
`17:39.13`	`koen`	`especially since it doesn't exist yet`
`17:40.28`	`Magon`	`is it possible to use /dev/random in chroot? or chrooted enviroment just cannot use /dev/files i get permision denie each time i try`
`17:42.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`mkdir dev`
`17:42.13`	`SpeedEvil`	`cp -r /dev/random dev`
`17:42.55`	`Magon`	`i did this...well i made new node but i looks like the same`
`17:42.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`I mean -R`
`17:42.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`Oh...`
`17:43.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`I wonder if it's something specific to random.`
`17:43.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`try urandom`
`17:43.27`	`Magon`	`the same`
`17:44.04`	`SpeedEvil`	`chrooted environment certainly can use random devices.`
`17:44.12`	`SpeedEvil`	`I know, as I use mldonkey in a chroot, and it wants them.`
`17:44.23`	`SpeedEvil`	`'normal' linux?`
`17:44.34`	`Magon`	`yes..just normal linux`
`17:44.40`	`so_solid_moo`	`mknod?`
`17:45.23`	`Magon`	`ok..have it..mount --bind /dev/ dev/`
`17:45.38`	`Magon`	`but not shure why mknod dev/random c 1 8`
`17:45.43`	`Magon`	`doesnt work`
`17:45.53`	`SpeedEvil`	`Shouldn't actually be needed without security stuff.`
`17:46.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`The user has permission to access it?`
`17:46.32`	`Magon`	`chrooted as root`
`17:46.48`	`Magon`	`i have not found a way how to chroot as normal user..need to be root`
`17:47.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`I mean stuff like making the binary suid user, then chroot . binary`
`17:48.01`	`Magon`	`ok another problem..is there a way how to run X app in chrooted enviroment?`
`17:48.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`Sure.`
`17:48.17`	`koen`	`just start them`
`17:48.44`	`Magon`	`but they have no DISPLAY, and when i set display it complains it cannot find one`
`17:48.58`	`SpeedEvil`	`I used to start the slackware installer, point it at /dir, then just when it finished, chroot . ldconfig, then chroot . bash`
`17:49.06`	`Magon`	`maybe i shall run X in the chroot?`
`17:49.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`Worked well.`
`17:49.25`	`*** join/#openmoko ericthefish (n=ivan@82-71-36-214.dsl.in-addr.zen.co.uk)`
`17:52.03`	`*** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180)`
`17:53.34`	`Magon`	`SpeedEvil: just build x86 rootfs chroot in it and run X apps?`
`18:03.24`	`*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-12-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`18:05.17`	`*** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21)`
`18:06.56`	`*** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p549516AB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`18:07.31`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes.`
`18:07.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`you need to sort out the X authorisation if you want to run on the 'host' display.`
`18:08.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`xhost localhost`
`18:08.04`	`Magon`	`SpeedEvil: but it have no DISPLAY env variable..you use chroot or fakechroot?`
`18:08.10`	`SpeedEvil`	`and DISPLAY=:0`
`18:08.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`and DISPLAY=0:0`
`18:08.16`	`SpeedEvil`	`works`
`18:08.22`	`SpeedEvil`	`chroot`
`18:08.42`	`Magon`	`ok..so xhost and than sed display?`
`18:08.54`	`SpeedEvil`	`The default DISPLAY of :0 can't work, as it's looking for a unix socket, which can't be accessed in the chroot.`
`18:08.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes.`
`18:09.15`	`SpeedEvil`	`DISPLAY=0:0;xeyes`
`18:09.16`	`Magon`	`s/sed/set`
`18:09.18`	`SpeedEvil`	`should work.`
`18:09.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`For example.`
`18:09.29`	`SpeedEvil`	`xhost on the existing X.`
`18:11.15`	`*** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21)`
`18:11.58`	`cjb`	`rwhitby: yay, build complete!`
`18:13.29`	`*** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21)`
`18:13.33`	`Magon`	`SpeedEvil: in notchroot run xhost localhost; than in chroot DISPLAY=:0.0 xeyes?`
`18:15.06`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes`
`18:15.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`no`
`18:15.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`DISPLAY=0:0`
`18:15.43`	`SpeedEvil`	`:0 is looking for /tmp/X0* or whatever it calls the socket.`
`18:16.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`0:0 is the tcp/ip connection to the X server.`
`18:16.08`	`SpeedEvil`	`You may need to enable that.`
`18:16.23`	`Magon`	`ok thx`
`18:16.56`	`SpeedEvil`	`telnet localhost 6000 - if it just hangs, then you can use tcp/ip`
`18:18.28`	`cjb`	`Hm. Where is "$OMDIR/build/tmp/deploy/images", in MokoMakefile speak?`
`18:18.49`	`Magon`	`telnet: Unable to connect to remote host (127.0.0.1): Connection refused`
`18:20.20`	`SpeedEvil`	`Ok - you need to enable it in X config`
`18:20.56`	`Magon`	`ok...working on it`
`18:22.06`	`_llll_`	`why not just 'ssh -X' instead of telnet btw?`
`18:22.08`	`Magon`	`shouldnt that be 6600?`
`18:22.25`	`Magon`	`ok not`
`18:22.36`	`SpeedEvil`	`ssh would work`
`18:22.47`	`SpeedEvil`	`just not the way I did it.`
`18:23.03`	`_llll_`	`anything else is just making things more complicated than it needs imo`
`18:23.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`Err - ssh -X means that you need a sshd up in the chroot.`
`18:23.41`	`SpeedEvil`	`doesn't it?`
`18:23.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`which gets a little complex.`
`18:23.56`	`greghunt`	`-X is x forwarding, no?`
`18:24.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`yes - but if you ssh to localhost, you will get to the non-chrooted side`
`18:24.16`	`_llll_`	`yes, you need to be able to ssh to the chroot`
`18:24.40`	`_llll_`	`got to chroot, 'aptitude install ssh xbase-clients' or whatever`
`18:25.06`	`Magon`	`SpeedEvil: do you know relevant line in xorg.conf? i have just 0.0.0.0:6000 tcp/ip`
`18:25.34`	`SpeedEvil`	`I don't do xorg.`
`18:25.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`Sorry - I've got xf86 still.`
`18:26.28`	`Magon`	`:-(`
`18:26.28`	`Magon`	`ok`
`18:26.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`#xorg?`
`18:26.47`	`Magon`	`google`
`18:28.45`	`*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-12-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`18:29.30`	`buz`	`soon it will be called GNU/OpenSolaris http://www.osnews.com/story.php?news_id=17387`
`18:30.06`	`cjb`	`maybe, maybe not. the opensolaris developers recently put out a post saying they don't like gplv3.`
`18:30.13`	`*** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl)`
`18:30.28`	`LuitvD`	`cjb: just like linux?`
`18:30.44`	`LuitvD`	`s/x/s/`
`18:30.59`	`cjb`	`LuitvD: right.`
`18:31.15`	`LuitvD`	`linus didn't like GPLv3 either... but why?`
`18:31.27`	`cjb`	`different reasons.`
`18:31.37`	`cjb`	`linus thinks that "tivoisation" is fine`
`18:31.57`	`cjb`	`the GPLv3 doesn't, 'cause the GPL never has.`
`18:32.10`	`*** join/#openmoko borg__ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21)`
`18:35.27`	`*** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@207.181.6.2)`
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`18:56.40`	`buz`	`linus should change his name`
`18:56.43`	`buz`	`would make things easier`
`18:57.41`	`*** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E56D.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`18:59.19`	`LuitvD`	`buz: LOOL`
`19:00.37`	`buz`	`i suggest he call himself GNU`
`19:00.42`	`Kero`	`so eds uses dbus. what do the messages/signals look like?`
`19:01.48`	`CM`	`Kero: I don't know, but I guess it depents on the language binding you use`
`19:02.17`	`CM`	`Kero: If you run gnome, just start dbus-monitor in a terminal and look :)`
`19:02.20`	`mickeyl`	`robtaylor: real 0m 44.33s; user 0m 5.21s; sys 0m 15.66s`
`19:03.06`	`robtaylor`	`mickeyl: christ`
`19:03.08`	`sixfeet`	`counter p1`
`19:03.14`	`sixfeet`	`^^`
`19:03.14`	`koen`	`mickeyl: wow`
`19:03.43`	`robtaylor`	`mickeyl: i'd start worrying about your hardware a bit`
`19:04.09`	`koen`	`robtaylor: I have to admit that the hx4700 kernel config was tweaked to make udev faster`
`19:05.02`	`Kero`	`CM: depending on the language binding? that seems weird... and of course I can monitor, but that has the risk of being rather incomplete...`
`19:05.56`	`robtaylor`	`koen: ah yeah, without the 256 ttys..`
`19:06.10`	`koen`	`mickeyl: you're famous: http://www.burtonini.com/blog/computers/tasks-2007-02-28-18-20`
`19:06.34`	`mickeyl`	`hehe, fun`
`19:06.36`	`CM`	`Kero: I thought you meant what calls you use to send or pick up signals`
`19:06.40`	`woglinde`	`he mickeyl`
`19:06.44`	`cjb`	`is tasks going into the mokomakefile build?`
`19:07.40`	`mickeyl`	`anyone remember how to make vorbis-tools build against tremor?`
`19:07.59`	`robtaylor`	`mickeyl: do you have a /sys/subsystem ?`
`19:08.01`	`koen`	`cjb: why would it?`
`19:08.14`	`mickeyl`	`robtaylor: yes`
`19:08.16`	`koen`	`cjb: mokomakefile is just idiot proofing`
`19:08.28`	`robtaylor`	`mickeyl: ah, thats good to know`
`19:08.46`	`robtaylor`	`koen: interstingly the n800 has 64 ttys`
`19:08.51`	`robtaylor`	`and thats 1.2 s`
`19:08.56`	`cjb`	`koen: because other o-hand stuff (e.g. dates) is already in there`
`19:09.03`	`koen`	`cjb: sigh`
`19:09.18`	`koen`	`cjb: the other stuff is in OE, not some stupid makefile`
`19:09.28`	`cjb`	`I guess I mean into the OE build, rather than into mokomakefile? whatever I mean, I'm wondering if tasks will show up in the moko NAND images.`
`19:09.34`	`cjb`	`right.`
`19:10.44`	`Elrond`	`Evening people.`
`19:11.35`	`*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)`
`19:12.29`	`koen`	`cjb: update OE, 'bitbake tasks' and it will spit out an installable package`
`19:14.45`	`cjb`	`koen: yay.`
`19:15.25`	`koen`	`cjb: altough mickeyl and I still don't get why 'tasks' isn't integrated into dates`
`19:15.38`	`mickeyl`	`yea`
`19:15.42`	`koen`	`cjb: so openmoko might have it integrated into dates later on`
`19:15.44`	`cjb`	`koen: screen real estate?`
`19:16.20`	`koen`	`no, since 'tasks' are inherently events`
`19:17.57`	`buz`	`all pda's i've ever used had a distinction between calendar and todo list`
`19:17.57`	`SirCrow`	`counter`
`19:17.57`	`aloril`	`P0: 3 days 20:21:10 (3.848 +-3.8 days); P1: 25.696 +-10.0 (see faq) (426)`
`19:20.31`	`woglinde`	`hm right`
`19:20.33`	`woglinde`	`counter`
`19:20.33`	`aloril`	`P0: 3 days 20:19:43 (3.847 +-3.8 days); P1: 25.694 +-10.0 (see faq) (427)`
`19:20.42`	`woglinde`	`3 days`
`19:20.43`	`woglinde`	`hu`
`19:21.40`	`*** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com)`
`19:21.42`	`LuitvD`	`woglinde: +/- 4 days`
`19:21.52`	`koen`	`ooooh`
`19:21.54`	`woglinde`	`luitvd we will se tomorrow`
`19:21.57`	`LuitvD`	`lol`
`19:21.58`	`koen`	`p0 mail`
`19:22.11`	`LuitvD`	`mail or e-mail? :P`
`19:22.21`	`koen`	`"We want to ship the phone on February 11th"`
`19:22.30`	`LuitvD`	`...`
`19:22.37`	`LuitvD`	`this year?`
`19:22.37`	`LuitvD`	`:P`
`19:23.09`	`LuitvD`	`has it been postponed for 18 days already? :S`
`19:25.13`	`noidd`	`koen: wierd huh`
`19:25.31`	`noidd`	`koen: so are you meant to re-sub your info?`
`19:25.46`	`pH5`	`I don't get it. Must have been a mistake?`
`19:26.13`	`Elrond`	`noidd - Are you the only one who got it again?`
`19:26.17`	`mickeyl`	`ignore this mail`
`19:26.25`	`mickeyl`	`accidantly the wrong mail was sent`
`19:26.28`	`mickeyl`	`a new one will follow`
`19:27.26`	`koen`	`the dutch customs are being extremely unhelpfull`
`19:27.51`	`koen`	`their website says one should declare them, but that it also might get done by the courier`
`19:28.07`	`koen`	`but no info on how to declare the items`
`19:29.09`	`Elrond`	`koen - Oh, that sounds like nearly as much fun as german customs. ;)`
`19:29.33`	`woglinde`	`elrond hm yes`
`19:29.43`	`koen`	`so my previous statement "mark as gift and pray" still holds`
`19:30.13`	`Elrond`	`koen - For the P0 phones... that should be even 99% legal.`
`19:30.36`	`Elrond`	`But for the P1 phones FIC probably will not do that.`
`19:30.57`	`stefan_schmidt`	`hmm, no backlog. What's about this phase0 update mail? The text has not changed.`
`19:31.27`	`stefan_schmidt`	`Just to make sure I submitted the needed informations?`
`19:31.32`	`koen`	`[20:26] mickeyl: ignore this mail`
`19:31.32`	`koen`	`[20:26] mickeyl: accidantly the wrong mail was sent`
`19:31.32`	`koen`	`[20:26] mickeyl: a new one will follow`
`19:31.34`	`Kero`	`lots of dbus messages... for launching Dates and creating a new Event...`
`19:32.50`	`Kero`	`(some gconf stuff in there, too)`
`19:32.57`	`*** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com)`
`19:32.58`	`stefan_schmidt`	`koen: thanks. (perhaps I should backlog the whole channel and not only private msgs)`
`19:34.09`	`SpeedEvil`	`Ok - have the screen blown up to nearly fullscreen, and rectangular. Investigating filters to make it clearer.`
`19:36.26`	`Elrond`	`gconf here, hal there. What next? windows registry over there? ;o)`
`19:36.50`	`vmaster`	`hehehe`
`19:37.15`	`rob__w`	`koen, to germany there is no tax on computers at all , but you need to pay the local FAT`
`19:37.31`	`*** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACAE20C5.ipt.aol.com)`
`19:38.12`	`rob__w`	`i hope they will delcare the item as product sample .. with 0 value ,, then even that tax will not be needed`
`19:38.27`	`robtaylor`	`wow udev forks for every event`
`19:38.45`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net)`
`19:38.50`	`Elrond`	`rob__w - you sure?`
`19:38.53`	`rob__w`	huhu quite some rob`s here around
`19:39.21`	`rob__w`	`the question is : " Do you have a commercial advantage of this item ..`
`19:39.45`	`rob__w`	`say you expect it tobe used as a spare parts source to repair working units ,, then yes you have a advantage ..`
`19:40.00`	`rob__w`	`but if you only demo it and dont sell it , then not`
`19:40.05`	`*** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-12-5.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com)`
`19:40.14`	`Kero`	`Who's working on those dbus messages / protocols between applications? Any standardisation? ad hoc?`
`19:40.24`	`rob__w`	`i had to go through this some weeks ago`
`19:40.26`	`koen`	`aloril: 20070305`
`19:40.44`	`Kero`	`Will e.g. GPS daemon and/or gsm daemon have a protocol over dbus to talk to?`
`19:40.53`	`koen`	`aloril: "we will send you the current phone no later than Monday, March 5"`
`19:41.22`	`Elrond`	`Kero - gpsd will probably use the standard gpsd-thing. gsmd uses its own protocol, whicgh �ibgsmd can talk.`
`19:41.42`	`*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)`
`19:41.45`	`rob__w`	`koen, is there a way to double check the send shipment informations ,, or dedicated confirmation email with the supposed adresses , just in case ?`
`19:41.56`	`koen`	`rob__w: no idea`
`19:42.19`	`*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)`
`19:42.45`	`rob__w`	`koen, how is that possible ?? ;-)`
`19:43.16`	`Kero`	`Elrond: newsgroups comp.hardware.gps.gpsd.* apply to "standard gps thing" ?`
`19:43.42`	`koen`	`excerpt from the mail: http://rafb.net/p/1BfxZE41.html`
`19:43.55`	`Elrond`	`Kero - I have no idea, but sounds likely.`
`19:43.59`	`rob__w`	`libgsm already talks to dbus i think`
`19:44.24`	`Elrond`	`How hard is dbus in plain C?`
`19:44.28`	`koen`	`Kero: global locate is modifying gpsd, so I suspect we'll have to wait till the release to see`
`19:44.28`	`Kero`	`Elrond: the oidgsmd, typo?`
`19:44.32`	`rob__w`	how many phase zero`s are planned ?
`19:44.38`	`koen`	`Elrond: better use dbus-glib`
`19:44.38`	`SpeedEvil`	`50`
`19:44.44`	`SpeedEvil`	`AIUI.`
`19:44.59`	`SpeedEvil`	`Phase 1, "as many as you can buy".`
`19:45.05`	`rob__w`	`SpeedEvil, ah thanks`
`19:45.09`	`Kero`	`Elrond: not too hard. Wrote dbus in RUby in the last few days.`
`19:45.25`	`Kero`	`Elrond: hardest was to find the very first byte in the spec to transmit`
`19:47.05`	`Kero`	`koen: mm, is there some mock-gpsd? or will there be? would it be useful?`
`19:47.17`	`Kero`	`same Q for gsm daemon`
`19:47.28`	`Elrond`	`Kero - s/oid/lib/ ;)`
`19:47.33`	`koen`	`Kero: AIUI they are modifying gpsd to have a plugin interface and a saner dbus interfacce`
`19:47.59`	`Kero`	`(somehow, with P0 in 3 days, I guess devs won't be writing mocks today :)`
`19:48.10`	`*** join/#openmoko Matt_PI__ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141)`
`19:48.10`	`Kero`	`Elrond: ah, ok :)`
`19:48.14`	`koen`	`Kero: 6 days`
`19:48.19`	`Elrond`	`Kero - Mock-gpsd is simple: Buy some useless gps transceiver and run stock gpsd. ;)`
`19:48.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`Any more bets?`
`19:48.44`	`woglinde`	`under 5 days`
`19:48.51`	`koen`	`the mails says "march 5"`
`19:48.55`	`buz`	`any estimate for p1?`
`19:48.59`	`Kero`	`koen: if they improve it, fine with me :) I'm P1 at best :P`
`19:49.02`	`Elrond`	`Kero - I think, there even ecists some fake-gpsd, which can be fed with a .nmea file ;)`
`19:49.03`	`rob__w`	`hehe new mail arrived .. what a question -- OPTION 1 i choose :-O`
`19:49.08`	`buz`	`better than the counter ;)`
`19:49.35`	`*** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081E205.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`19:49.54`	`Kero`	`seems there is a fake gpsd in Perl`
`19:50.12`	`rob__w`	`is harald in the chat ?`
`19:51.23`	`Elrond`	`rob__w - in theory yes. In theory his idle time is 9mins. In practice I haven't seen him talk here. ;)`
`19:52.07`	`buz`	`maybe theres a harald bot`
`19:52.22`	`*** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be)`
`19:58.01`	`Elrond`	`SpeedEvil - apropos LCM fading out (due to RAM refresh,whatever) Search for "fade" in http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2007-February/000046.html ;)`
`19:58.38`	`Magon`	`SpeedEvil: i had bad rule in iptable :-((`
`19:59.42`	`robtaylor`	`koen: oh, wow. if i kill ke-recv on the N800, time udevsynthesise goes down to 0.45s real`
`19:59.55`	`SpeedEvil`	`yeah - LCMs do slowly decay. An interesting question is can the LCD self refresh, it says it has memory on the datasheet.`
`20:00.05`	`SpeedEvil`	`Magon :)`
`20:00.30`	`Magon`	`but now i cannot do many thing..i destroyed a bit X system...probably will need restart`
`20:00.45`	`SpeedEvil`	`:/`
`20:00.51`	`Elrond`	`SpeedEvil - Well, if the main CPU is halted due to JTAG, it seems, that it does not refresh itself?`
`20:01.12`	`Elrond`	`... hmm, or does it need some *CLK for that, which the main CPU generates?`
`20:01.14`	`SpeedEvil`	`It may have a command that needs to be sent though.`
`20:01.16`	`pH5`	`SpeedEvil: didn't fluffs say the LCM is clocked by the CPU's HCLK?`
`20:01.24`	`*** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.28.26.tisdip.tiscali.de)`
`20:01.41`	`SpeedEvil`	`Yes - but that's not really relevant if the LCM has its own memory`
`20:01.52`	`SpeedEvil`	`as it could possibly be put in 'self refresh' mode.`
`20:02.06`	`pH5`	`SpeedEvil: but how is it supposed to work if it doesn't get a clock?`
`20:02.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`Internal clocking, who knows.`
`20:02.40`	`*** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-19-86.media.mit.edu)`
`20:02.40`	`SpeedEvil`	`I was really surprised that the minimal data page says it's got RAM.`
`20:03.01`	`SpeedEvil`	`If that's correct, then it'd only really generally make sense to use it when it wasn't getting clocked.`
`20:03.24`	`rob_w`	`hmm my dsl provider speed changed`
`20:03.35`	`SpeedEvil`	`If it's wrong, well, it's almost certain that the LCD can't be used in slow mode.`
`20:04.17`	`SpeedEvil`	`That's not a big annoyance - as the backlight uses around as much energy as the CPU in normal mode when idle.`
`20:09.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz)`
`20:10.11`	`*** join/#openmoko ajturner_ (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com)`
`20:11.50`	`koen`	`robtaylor: interesting`
`20:14.36`	`Magon`	`so finally after about 2 week(or 3) after openmoko source release, i have it up and partially running in xoo on x86 host`
`20:18.47`	`LuitvD`	`:P`
`20:19.57`	`*** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`20:21.16`	`Magon`	`thy is in utilities->panel wifi monitor??`
`20:22.57`	`*** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`20:31.22`	`loufoque`	`Magon: would you mind sending me your binary?`
`20:31.35`	`Magon`	`not..`
`20:31.37`	`Magon`	`wait a sec`
`20:31.53`	`Magon`	`you want rootfs?`
`20:32.03`	`loufoque`	`what's rootfs?`
`20:32.04`	`noidd`	`Do we know what shipping company FIC will use?`
`20:32.35`	`Magon`	`but it is probably not able to root in qemu..it is without kernel i think`
`20:33.58`	`Magon`	`http://www.ms.mff.cuni.cz/~kupem6am/openmoko-devel-image-x86-20070227064250.rootfs.tar.gz`
`20:34.42`	`Magon`	`if you uncompress it and chroot in it with /bin/sh it shall work`
`20:34.46`	`Magon`	`"work"`
`20:35.15`	`buz`	`LuitvD: http://www.mobile-review.com/pda/review/htc-vox-en.shtml that is a neat form factor`
`20:35.41`	`*** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@85-211-206-159.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk)`
`20:35.51`	`LuitvD`	`buz: yeah, have been looking at that too`
`20:35.59`	`loufoque`	`Magon: I can't download it, it seems I only get an empty file`
`20:36.12`	`buz`	`on the outside, it looks like a regular phone`
`20:36.24`	`buz`	`i think you must hand in your geek card if you buy that`
`20:38.02`	`Magon`	`ok me the same..fixinf`
`20:38.11`	`*** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com)`
`20:38.16`	`*** part/#openmoko PirateHead (n=piratehe@AC96BC96.ipt.aol.com)`
`20:38.24`	`buz`	`screen is too small`
`20:38.42`	`LuitvD`	`wow, booting windows mobile does take some time there...`
`20:38.43`	`LuitvD`	`:S`
`20:38.45`	`loufoque`	`buz: the keyboard must be unusable`
`20:39.04`	`buz`	`bigger than a treo keyboard`
`20:39.08`	`buz`	`and those arent that bad`
`20:41.36`	`Magon`	`i exceeded disk quota..fixing`
`20:42.15`	`LuitvD`	`wonder what they say the lifetime is... on one charge...`
`20:42.21`	`LuitvD`	`the batt is only 1050mAh`
`20:44.05`	`LuitvD`	`damn, I guess I just toasted my pic18F4431...`
`20:44.06`	`LuitvD`	`:(`
`20:44.06`	`buz`	`2-3days it says`
`20:46.36`	`buz`	`more than p0 neo obviously`
`20:47.15`	`buz`	`MP3 Trimmer. A small application that has much potential inside. It serves for cutting MP3 track, and thus makes them suited for use as ring tones`
`20:47.20`	`buz`	`that could be a good idea`
`20:51.12`	`*** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru)`
`20:52.47`	`*** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B025CE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de)`
`20:53.50`	`LuitvD`	`wowz... slammed 7V through a 5V rated PIC chip, and didn't break it...`
`20:53.54`	`LuitvD`	`phew...`
`20:54.19`	`*** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081D5C2.dip.t-dialin.net)`
`20:54.24`	`LuitvD`	`damn, I really wished I'd be finished with this, so I can focus on ARM chips, instead of miserable PIC chips`
`20:56.13`	`buz`	`still the robot`
`20:56.38`	`buz`	`obviously it needs a neo to find its way`
`21:00.03`	`SpeedEvil`	`PICs are nice, robust, and use nearly no power if you pick the right ones.`
`21:00.33`	`SpeedEvil`	`For some reason, when I saw 'MP3 trimmer' I thought of something that played tunes while it cut grass.`
`21:02.28`	`*** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171)`
`21:04.38`	`buz`	`omfg just how hard can you make it to take money from customers?`
`21:04.54`	`buz`	`(the creditcard interface for my prepaid must have been designed by complete nitwits)`
`21:05.52`	`loufoque`	`buz: mp3 is patented`
`21:06.12`	`buz`	`not sure if you actually need to implement the codec to cut files`
`21:07.06`	`loufoque`	`anyway there are zillions of mp3 splitters around`
`21:07.09`	`buz`	`besides, no softpats in switzerland ;)`
`21:07.21`	`buz`	`yeah but how many on a phone?`
`21:07.33`	`loufoque`	`you don't need a special phone GUI for it, just use the command line`
`21:08.01`	`Magon`	`loufoque: working`
`21:08.31`	`loufoque`	`Magon: thanks, so I just need to chroot into it?`
`21:09.33`	`buz`	`oh it gets better, after the refill the prepaid card now no longer exists`
`21:09.36`	`Magon`	`loufoque: yes`
`21:09.57`	`Magon`	`and probably need to install xoo, and enable tcp/ip in X`
`21:10.00`	`Magon`	`from localhost`
`21:10.39`	`*** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=nrwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby)`
`21:10.55`	`buz`	`lol, phone number: (null)`
`21:12.12`	`LuitvD`	`:)`
`21:13.28`	`Magon`	`buz: where ?`
`21:13.33`	`*** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-18-229-143.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`21:14.00`	`loufoque`	`Magon: how do I start running the GUI?`
`21:14.23`	`Magon`	`x-window*`
`21:14.48`	`Magon`	`but set DISPLAY as DISPLAY=localhost:0`
`21:15.06`	`Magon`	`is it on wiki?? i will try to write one`
`21:17.06`	`rwhitby`	`morning all`
`21:17.53`	`loufoque`	`I get some "could not find XKB extension" errors`
`21:18.10`	`rwhitby`	`cjb: did you sort out the rebuild problem?`
`21:18.51`	`Magon`	`loufoque: do you have xoo running outside of chroot?`
`21:20.10`	`loufoque`	`yes`
`21:20.47`	`buz`	`in the webgui of my cell carrier`
`21:27.30`	`*** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.160.193)`
`21:28.16`	`Magon`	`loufoque: so it complains about XKB and stopps working?`
`21:28.44`	`loufoque`	`Magon: actually my chroot wasn't really working since I was only calling /bin/sh from /bin/bash`
`21:28.51`	`*** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl)`
`21:29.13`	`loufoque`	`Magon: I fixed that problem but now it complains about nonexistent /dev/null and about the fact it can't open the display`
`21:29.32`	`Magon`	`yes.. do mount --bind /dev/ rootfs/dev`
`21:29.45`	`Magon`	`loufoque: will make a wiki page tonight`
`21:29.49`	`loufoque`	`according to Xoo, the display used is :1, so I wrote DISPLAY=localhost:1`
`21:30.03`	`Magon`	`ok`
`21:31.53`	`*** join/#openmoko raisoman (n=raisoman@ip8.ds1-ynoe.adsl.cybercity.dk)`
`21:33.14`	`*** join/#openmoko larstobi_ (i=larstobi@theseus.fa-s.ntnu.no)`
`21:35.42`	`*** join/#openmoko C7 (n=C7@84-74-83-99.dclient.hispeed.ch)`
`21:37.46`	`loufoque`	`Magon: how do I get that rootfs thing working? I thought rootfs was part of the kernel`
`21:38.11`	`Magon`	`rootfs is just all binaries you need to get system working`
`21:38.37`	`Magon`	`loufoque: what is crashing now?`
`21:44.09`	`loufoque`	`well, mount --bind /dev/ rootfs/dev says rootfs is not found`
`21:45.55`	`Magon`	`rootfs substitue for folder you have unpacked the file`
`21:48.05`	`loufoque`	`I lost the whole dev directory when unpacking the archive`
`21:48.28`	`*** join/#openmoko ultralisk (n=twistx@12.154.85.111)`
`21:49.10`	`Magon`	`need to unpack as root..or just make another dev dir`
`21:49.23`	`Magon`	`the mount will probably create all files needed`
`21:49.28`	`mickey\|zzZZzz`	`g'night`
`21:50.10`	`*** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-138-217-198-52.sa.bigpond.net.au)`
`21:51.00`	`noidd`	`later mickey`
`21:51.47`	`*** join/#openmoko disguy__160148 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-2d266d109869cbf1)`
`21:57.39`	`Magon`	`loufoque: does it work with the devs ?`
`22:04.14`	`*** join/#openmoko cworth (n=cworth@c-67-160-161-141.hsd1.or.comcast.net)`
`22:05.21`	`*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net)`
`22:12.07`	`*** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl)`
`22:14.55`	`*** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net)`
`22:20.42`	`*** join/#openmoko Lumpio- (n=matti@dsl-jklbrasgw1-fe1cdc00-91.dhcp.inet.fi)`
`22:20.59`	`*** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis)`
`22:22.34`	`ultralisk`	`this rocks`
`22:32.00`	`*** join/#openmoko behda1 (n=behdad@63.250.163.171)`
`22:46.09`	`*** join/#openmoko mschuoi (n=typn@unaffiliated/chairuou)`
`22:53.34`	`LuitvD`	`it's not very awake here atm...`
`22:53.46`	`ultralisk`	`not at all`
`22:54.22`	`LuitvD`	`where did you suddenly come from :P`
`22:54.24`	`ultralisk`	`unless everyone's just staring at their screen`
`22:54.40`	`LuitvD`	`could be...`
`22:54.43`	`MacNorth`	`this screensaver is pretty cool!`
`22:54.45`	`ultralisk`	`well, i was staring at my screen ;)`
`22:54.46`	`MacNorth`	`oh, damn`
`22:54.50`	`LuitvD`	`lol`
`22:56.19`	`Magon`	`LuitvD: what kind of robot?`
`22:56.20`	`*** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-008.eplus-online.de)`
`22:56.39`	`LuitvD`	`Magon: just some school project... balancing robot (segway-like)`
`22:56.40`	`ultralisk`	`is it a roomba?`
`22:56.45`	`ultralisk`	`ah`
`22:57.15`	`LuitvD`	`it's cooler then a roomba.. if it does what it should do`
`22:58.39`	`LuitvD`	`and it has to be working tomorrownight`
`22:58.43`	`LuitvD`	`:(`
`22:59.20`	`ultralisk`	`hrmm`
`22:59.31`	`LuitvD`	`gotta show it tomorrow...`
`22:59.39`	`ultralisk`	`yeah... it sounds cooler than a roomba`
`22:59.51`	`LuitvD`	`and the stupid motor controller is shorting out all the time... i guess...`
`23:00.11`	`LuitvD`	`(luckily, the battery pack can drag 33A peak currents)`
`23:01.08`	`LuitvD`	`this is what it looks like: http://img.luitvd.nl/robot.png`
`23:01.32`	`ultralisk`	`nice`
`23:02.00`	`*** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu)`
`23:02.06`	`ultralisk`	`how is it controlled?`
`23:02.06`	`aloril`	`ultralisk: See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ (this autotrigger for new nick and 2 question marks during 15min done only once)`
`23:02.31`	`ultralisk`	`aloril, be quiet bot`
`23:03.10`	`LuitvD`	`:)`
`23:03.25`	`LuitvD`	`it's controlled by the big black 40-pinned chip in the middle`
`23:03.41`	`LuitvD`	`Microchip PIC18LF4331 that is`
`23:04.15`	`LuitvD`	`a very nice programmable chip with 8 A/D converters and 8 PWM channels`
`23:04.31`	`ultralisk`	`cool`
`23:04.33`	`LuitvD`	`and a whole bunch of general purpose IO pins`
`23:04.57`	`ultralisk`	`looks like a fun project`
`23:04.58`	`*** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net)`
`23:05.21`	`LuitvD`	`it is a fun project... as long as you can take your time...`
`23:05.27`	`LuitvD`	`and I've already taken too much`
`23:05.48`	`LuitvD`	`gonna use all day tomorrow to get it up and running (again) for the presentations tomorrownight`
`23:07.02`	`LuitvD`	`just disassembled an old calculator...`
`23:07.27`	`LuitvD`	`it has 2 huge chips, and a simple PCB with leads that are all wider then 1mm`
`23:07.28`	`LuitvD`	`:P`
`23:07.41`	`LuitvD`	`it just can't break :P`
`23:07.55`	`ultralisk`	`sweet`
`23:08.15`	`LuitvD`	`the device can't do jack-shit, but the screen is fun :)`
`23:08.30`	`LuitvD`	`9-digit 7-segment display :)`
`23:08.37`	`LuitvD`	`LED, and very small`
`23:09.03`	`*** join/#openmoko dom__ (n=dom@juicy.ecs.soton.ac.uk)`
`23:13.52`	`*** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`23:20.22`	`*** join/#openmoko disguy__160148 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-d9b239b3538d2b97)`
`23:23.17`	`*** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu)`
`23:24.43`	`CoreDump\|home`	`hi`
`23:25.45`	`rwhitby`	`hey CoreDump\|home - like the news of dual p0 phones?`
`23:26.02`	`CoreDump\|home`	`rwhitby: I didn't get the 2nd email`
`23:26.16`	`CoreDump\|home`	`ok there it is...`
`23:26.27`	`rwhitby`	`oh, you must be one of the 25 they had to chop off so they could send two phones to the others ...`
`23:27.00`	`CoreDump\|home`	`hehe`
`23:27.33`	`CoreDump\|home`	`wow, they are actually sending a _second_ phone once the h/w is fixed?`
`23:28.12`	`rwhitby`	`yep, that really indicates they are serious about this phase0 deal.`
`23:28.48`	`CoreDump\|home`	`indeed. I was following the channel via livelog from work. I thought we would just have to live w/ the "immobile" mobiles hehe =)`
`23:30.28`	`rwhitby`	`mine p-1 phone is probably going to end up as a gsm sms gateway after I've finished hacking on it.`
`23:31.17`	`CoreDump\|home`	`rwhitby: you are going to buy a 3rd phone? heh`
`23:31.39`	`rwhitby`	`CoreDump\|home: once it has a keyboard, yes.`
`23:31.47`	`rwhitby`	`(to replace the Treo650)`
`23:31.57`	`CoreDump\|home`	`keyboard?`
`23:32.20`	`rwhitby`	`yup, and a 5-way d-pad.`
`23:32.50`	`rwhitby`	`a touchscreen will get a dent in it when I push the "delete" key on 200 mailing list messages every morning ...`
`23:33.02`	`CoreDump\|home`	`rwhitby: lol`
`23:33.36`	`rwhitby`	`I guess I could program the neo to move the delete key over the screen by a small amount each day ... "wear leveling". hmm - I wonder if there is a patent in that ...`
`23:34.05`	`CoreDump\|home`	`if you think about it, the situation is brilliant. We get a non-mobile unit for hacking and dev stuff, and a real phone to use as cell phone =)`
`23:34.22`	`CoreDump\|home`	`rwhitby: =)`
`23:35.07`	`rwhitby`	`CoreDump\|home: absolutely. Given that I always buy two of any device I hack seriously, this was ideal.`
`23:35.25`	`CoreDump\|home`	`I still can't belive OM is _that_ cool`
`23:36.53`	`CoreDump\|home`	`*believe`
`23:40.03`	`*** join/#openmoko cying_ (n=cying@adsl-75-18-222-174.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net)`
`23:43.36`	`*** part/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-7-58-49.hsd1.ca.comcast.net)`
`23:45.29`	`Magon`	`I added page to wiki about running openmoko in xoo on host...when you find error, bug, wrong use of language or anything else feel free to corret it or be angry to me and fill my talk page`
`23:45.42`	`*** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net)`
`23:58.48`	`*** join/#openmoko jackey (n=jackey@CPE0016b6230168-CM0014e827107e.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com)`
`23:59.16`	`jackey`	`anyone here want to talk about openmoko?`

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