| 00:01.34 | *** join/#openmoko tg_ (i=tg@2001:618:1a23:0:0:0:0:1) |
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| 00:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 00:27.54 | rwhitby | Is Joe Friedrichsen here? |
| 00:30.03 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 00:30.41 | LuitvD | who is Joe Friedrichsen? |
| 00:31.00 | LuitvD | could I be Joe Friedrichsen? |
| 00:31.56 | maydaytx_ | only if you let him be you |
| 00:32.57 | *** join/#openmoko tg (i=tg@x-net.hu) |
| 00:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko MichaelKthx (n=michael@fl-76-3-183-193.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 00:33.31 | *** join/#openmoko maydaytx (n=maydaytx@cpe-67-9-70-44.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 00:33.59 | MichaelKthx | where's the openmoko wiki |
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| 00:34.37 | sixfeet | LuitvD, *gg* |
| 00:35.48 | LuitvD | :) |
| 00:36.09 | LuitvD | MichaelKthx: your guess is as good as mine ;) |
| 00:38.08 | LuitvD | I just want to do it right :) |
| 00:40.08 | sixfeet | mailto e30-turbo ;) faster |
| 00:40.38 | LuitvD | sixfeet: I don't think I understand you, and I think it's the same the other way around... |
| 00:40.46 | LuitvD | e30-turbo? |
| 00:41.07 | sixfeet | not only faster pc's *fg* |
| 00:41.15 | sixfeet | bmw e30 |
| 00:42.10 | LuitvD | booh... don't need that... |
| 00:42.48 | MichaelKthx | I just found the wiki |
| 00:42.53 | MichaelKthx | looks awesome |
| 00:43.29 | sixfeet | try youtube some nice vids |
| 00:43.58 | MichaelKthx | Since this is an open soruce phone, I'm guessing it will work fine with my ubuntu machine |
| 00:44.37 | MichaelKthx | Which would be awesome |
| 00:44.55 | MichaelKthx | as oposed to the iphone which is limited to "Mac and PC" |
| 00:44.57 | LuitvD | is it gsmd >> daemon or deamon... |
| 00:45.34 | sixfeet | d |
| 00:45.57 | sixfeet | gsm +gps |
| 00:46.02 | LuitvD | sixfeet: I've come that far myself, thanks :P |
| 00:46.10 | LuitvD | gsm daemon or gsm deamon |
| 00:46.16 | LuitvD | which of those... |
| 00:46.28 | LuitvD | (the software controlling the GSM module) |
| 00:46.40 | LuitvD | MichaelKthx: err. "would work fine with my ubuntu" is not nessessarily true... That's all up to you :) |
| 00:46.56 | sixfeet | is there an option to gpsdrive ? |
| 00:47.06 | LuitvD | MichaelKthx: but it's GNU/Linux, so it should be able to support many FOSS |
| 00:47.06 | *** part/#openmoko MichaelKthx (n=michael@fl-76-3-183-193.dhcp.embarqhsd.net) |
| 00:47.22 | LuitvD | sixfeet: what do you mean? |
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| 00:48.00 | sixfeet | the gps modul of the FIC |
| 00:48.16 | *** part/#openmoko nonick01 (n=chatzill@168.226.106.190) |
| 00:48.30 | sixfeet | sirf3 ? i don't know the specs |
| 00:50.26 | rwhitby | hammerhead |
| 00:54.25 | LuitvD | Infineon PMB 2520 IIRC |
| 00:54.53 | LuitvD | (hammerhead based indeed) |
| 00:55.01 | LuitvD | or wait... |
| 00:55.40 | LuitvD | it's simply called "Hammerhead" ... :| |
| 00:55.56 | sixfeet | i have to google |
| 00:56.07 | LuitvD | sixfeet: no, look at the wiki ;) |
| 00:56.14 | sixfeet | ^^ |
| 00:56.20 | LuitvD | sufficient amount of info there... |
| 00:56.33 | LuitvD | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Agpsd |
| 00:56.35 | LuitvD | that one... |
| 00:56.35 | sixfeet | what a surprise LuitvD |
| 00:57.07 | sixfeet | oh n1 thx |
| 00:57.10 | LuitvD | and a lot of answers there: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Hardware:AGPS |
| 00:57.12 | LuitvD | :) |
| 00:57.22 | LuitvD | (that last one has many answers) |
| 00:58.25 | LuitvD | lol, it's as if I'm writing an essay... |
| 00:58.35 | LuitvD | got 350 words already... |
| 00:59.10 | LuitvD | now at exactly 2k characters |
| 01:00.26 | LuitvD | hehehe, I love it when the spell checker wants to change my last name into van Drunken :D |
| 01:05.25 | sixfeet | hehe |
| 01:08.11 | LuitvD | that sure gives me a good excuse :) it's in the name |
| 01:09.38 | cjb | woo, we have X up on our Neo |
| 01:09.48 | cjb | is there a terminal app by default? |
| 01:10.19 | cjb | ok, I have a terminal |
| 01:10.24 | cjb | but I don't know how to type in it |
| 01:12.22 | LuitvD | :) |
| 01:12.25 | dilinger | and, how do we talk to it via usb? |
| 01:12.42 | LuitvD | dilinger: err... through usb I guess? |
| 01:12.48 | dilinger | i see usb0 shows up as an interface, and cdc_ether is loaded |
| 01:12.54 | LuitvD | using an usb cable... |
| 01:12.59 | LuitvD | and a computer with the right drivers... |
| 01:13.15 | LuitvD | :) |
| 01:17.00 | dilinger | right.. you're not actually helping |
| 01:17.30 | dilinger | let's see, cdc-acm + patch? |
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| 01:19.40 | LuitvD | dilinger: no that's right, how am I supposed to help... I don't have an Openmoko-capable device yet |
| 01:19.53 | LuitvD | :) |
| 01:22.47 | LuitvD | nearly 500 words... quite an essay that is... |
| 01:23.38 | LuitvD | never before wrote that much english in one document just for fun :) |
| 01:27.07 | LuitvD | dangit, is it 2:30 am already? :| |
| 01:27.16 | LuitvD | gotta get some rest... |
| 01:27.41 | LuitvD | good luck with y'r usb dilinger ;) |
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| 01:38.40 | dilinger | aww |
| 01:38.41 | dilinger | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Getting_Started_with_your_Neo1973 |
| 01:41.09 | aevin | excessive guidelines there :) it's left as a TODO for the first p0 dev that needs help getting started, right? ;-) |
| 01:41.42 | aevin | not RTFM but WTFM. |
| 01:46.37 | rwhitby | well, they have to ship p0 phones before the lack of info on that page becomes a problem. |
| 01:48.00 | dilinger | *nod* |
| 01:48.00 | dilinger | yea, i didn't realize they hadn't shipped yet |
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| 02:28.30 | cbpage | i wonder if the connectior engineers are back from new years yet |
| 02:34.22 | rwhitby | cbpage: there are other hardware bugs that are going to delay further - seen planet.openmoko.org? |
| 02:41.09 | cjb | http://blog.printf.net/articles/2007/02/22/unboxing-the-openmoko-phone |
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| 02:43.44 | aloril | rwhitby: they didn't sound serious "delay -wise" |
| 02:44.18 | rwhitby | well, they are delaying it into march last I heard, and maybe to well into march. |
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| 02:49.57 | aloril | late march for P1, yeah |
| 02:52.09 | rwhitby | I heard march for P0 now |
| 02:52.24 | CoreDump|afk | that would suck |
| 02:52.32 | aloril | ah? where? |
| 02:52.57 | rwhitby | it was here in IRC. from XorA|gone or hrw|gone (don't remember which) |
| 02:59.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1081 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/main.c: this is now 'barely working', after having hunted down a number of bugs. |
| 02:59.58 | aloril | hmm... hrw hard to say if that was informed guess or having some extra knowledge |
| 03:00.20 | aloril | depends on how hard to fix those hardware problems are I guess, will see it in few days I guess ;-) |
| 03:00.51 | rwhitby | http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.20070222.txt, around 17:50 ... |
| 03:02.10 | aloril | (day ago that is) |
| 03:03.10 | yellat | this is kind of a stupid question, but say you wanted to learn to program for an openmoko, what you want to go about learning? |
| 03:04.25 | cjb | yellat: GTK2, GNOME. |
| 03:04.28 | rwhitby | depends what application you want to write. |
| 03:04.55 | yellat | general stuff, maybe for syncing, networking, etc |
| 03:04.57 | rwhitby | if you're going to revamp the bluetooth<->usbnet<->gprs back-end handover code, then you might not need GTK or GNOME at all :-) |
| 03:05.37 | aloril | learning C is good idea (if you don't already know it ;-) |
| 03:05.49 | yellat | rwhitby - i seriously doubt i'd be doing that inside, a loooong while |
| 03:06.22 | yellat | aloril - c is already on the list when i have some time, lots of school right now |
| 03:07.22 | yellat | aloril - ubuntu already has a c compiler correct? |
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| 03:07.56 | aloril | yellat: if Python is bundled then learn it first (if its not bundled, it will be easy to install and probably soon have bindings for most functionality (for a lot it already has) |
| 03:08.57 | aloril | yellat: sure, gcc includes C, C++, etc..: however I don't think its installed by default, Python most likely is installed by default in ubuntu |
| 03:09.22 | aloril | if you need to learn programming, learn Python first and then go to C |
| 03:10.40 | aloril | (installing gcc of course is easy ;-) |
| 03:11.41 | yellat | I've tried python before, it was not too hard to pick up but it has been a few years. If it isn't to much to ask, what would be the differences between what you could do with gtk2/python/gnome/c |
| 03:12.24 | aloril | in short: you can code faster in Python, but code runs faster in C |
| 03:12.26 | yellat | aloril - i'm not worried about installing it, just not sure what it was called |
| 03:12.44 | yellat | gtk2/gnome is the gui basicly? |
| 03:12.53 | aloril | (you can use C code fro Python too) |
| 03:13.06 | aloril | gnome is not bundled, only gtk2 + openmoko additions |
| 03:13.12 | cjb | yellat: you can do gtk2/gnome in Python, but Python may not be shipped on the device. |
| 03:13.13 | aloril | gtk2 already has python bindings |
| 03:13.25 | cjb | aloril: there are some GNOME technologies in there, e.g. evolution-data-server. |
| 03:13.43 | aloril | cjb: OK |
| 03:13.51 | yellat | so learning c would carry over to the python/gtk2 productively |
| 03:13.56 | cjb | yes. |
| 03:14.00 | jebba | cjb, you gotta write up some more in your blog as you're nearly the only person to have actually held one of these things! :) |
| 03:14.17 | cjb | yeah, I think it's the photo with it actually turned on. |
| 03:14.19 | yellat | cjb you've handled one |
| 03:14.26 | yellat | how was it? |
| 03:15.00 | jebba | in fact, it may be the only photo with it actually running the current software and not a mockup that i've seen.... |
| 03:15.22 | cjb | yellat: good. |
| 03:15.45 | aloril | yellat: you mention of having picket up Python already, go for C then (just install gcc, gdb and maybe some IDE of your choosing) |
| 03:16.48 | yellat | cjb - thats very exciting to hear |
| 03:18.14 | SpeedEvil | cjb: If you know how to get positions out of the GPS, a strace of agpsd getting a lock from cold, then positions every half an hour would be interesting to put somewhere, for those of us interesting in cracking the hammerhead. |
| 03:20.22 | yellat | aloril - thats pretty much what i'd decided to do, was curious about other options though. off to install gcc and such |
| 03:20.29 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz_ (i=inezz@195.113.97.158) |
| 03:20.32 | aevin | yellat: to install the C compiler gcc and all the other things you need to getting started with C, just install the "build-essential" package, which will also include gcc, g++, make, libc6-dev etc. |
| 03:20.43 | yellat | k |
| 03:20.51 | yellat | thanks for answerings my questions |
| 03:21.40 | aevin | all you need after that is to decide upon a good editor/IDE to code in. |
| 03:22.23 | yellat | aevin - i'm open to suggestions there as well |
| 03:22.43 | yellat | free or cheap is the only real limit there |
| 03:25.00 | aloril | yellat: you can just develop for PC (just keep in mind of 480x640 280dpi screen), but once you want it on phone, you need to set up OE (for cross compiling, etc.., unless you install gcc in phone ;-) |
| 03:25.02 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 03:25.30 | aloril | (ie.. above is really relevant once you have actual hardware ;-) |
| 03:25.49 | yellat | aloril - pc probably compiles a lot faster though |
| 03:25.54 | aloril | (though you can do it now too if you want, but its not needed) |
| 03:26.23 | aloril | yellat: yep and you can test on PC easier too than on phone/emulator and things should run just fine on phone |
| 03:27.06 | aloril | its pretty normal Linux distribution after all, on small device |
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| 03:32.14 | yellat | i probably could, i doubt anything i write for awhile will be very intensive. is the size of sd card it can work with limited at 1/2gigs or is that unclear/driver/? related |
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| 03:37.34 | aloril | 2GB at least works, bigger sizes are unclear: it might be hardware limit or it might be just software limit (which will be fixed if not already fixed in latest kernel (or latest patches)) |
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| 03:41.41 | SpeedEvil | For installed software, we really want to stick at 60M or so - leaving some space for user data, to make it simple to change SD. |
| 03:41.56 | SpeedEvil | Of course, you can install whatever on SD. |
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| 03:42.57 | yellat | oh, the sd card would be more for stuff like music, etc, just curious really. |
| 03:43.06 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
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| 03:43.27 | SpeedEvil | A second micro-SD slot would be quite nice in that respect. |
| 03:43.36 | SpeedEvil | Or the near-field vapourware SDs. |
| 03:44.05 | SpeedEvil | (non-contact reader, 10-50Kbyte/s) |
| 03:46.38 | yellat | sounds very useful |
| 03:49.16 | aloril | well.. I will consider microSD basically like second hard disk inside it, swapped basically for size upgrade only |
| 03:49.45 | aloril | use USB mass storage for other further needs and USB/bluetooth networking to move stuff |
| 03:52.17 | aloril | s/use/I will use/ |
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| 03:58.56 | SpeedEvil | I think the first thingy I'm making is a battery powered microSD reader. |
| 03:59.11 | SpeedEvil | There are some _very_ small MicroSD only readers out there. |
| 03:59.32 | SpeedEvil | Adding a li-ion AAA cell or so doesn't increase the volume too much. |
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| 04:12.11 | aloril | OT: if USA supreme court rules that software is not patentable and EU keeps its current stance, that practically means dead of idea of software patents |
| 04:17.10 | aloril | maybe should create language that uses just English and executes that directly, then you would have to say that English speech is patentable ;-) |
| 04:18.12 | aloril | ie.. no object code, no byte code, just direct intepretation |
| 04:18.22 | aloril | sure it would probably be slow, but ... ;-) |
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| 04:23.32 | aloril | hmm.. even write it in itself, then you have even metamachine in English ;-) |
| 04:28.22 | SpeedEvil | aloril: Is there a current US case? |
| 04:32.18 | aloril | http://yro.slashdot.org/yro/07/02/22/024249.shtml http://www.groklaw.net/articlebasic.php?story=20061215131844340 |
| 04:32.26 | SpeedEvil | ah |
| 04:32.33 | aloril | basically, supreme court noticed that it has never ruled on software patents ;-) |
| 04:32.38 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 04:32.44 | SpeedEvil | I hope. |
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| 04:40.22 | aloril | rwhitby: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/02/20#20070220-hardware_problems "... there are likely-to-be-working hot-fixes for the already-produced Phase-0 devices." |
| 04:40.38 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 04:41.08 | aloril | if laforge is right, then they just need that cable and software upgrade for P0 devices (P1 hardware will be different) |
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| 04:44.04 | aloril | if laforge is wrong, they would need scrap already produced P0 phones :-( |
| 04:44.29 | aloril | OT: what is most simple enforced (especially enforced by courts) software patent? |
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| 04:52.08 | SpeedEvil | The blackberry comes to mind. |
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| 04:54.06 | SpeedEvil | (the P0 bugs) |
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| 05:00.22 | SpeedEvil | counter |
| 05:00.22 | aloril | P0: 6 days 06:59:37 (0.291 - 6.291 days); P1: 22.291 - 37.291; P2: 190.291 - 220.291 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (388) |
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| 07:20.43 | CM | http://blog.printf.net/articles/2007/02/22/unboxing-the-openmoko-phone |
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| 07:35.19 | dirak1 | CM: =-O =-O =-O..great..!!! http://blog.printf.net/articles/2007/02/22/unboxing-the-openmoko-phone. |
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| 07:37.15 | CM | dirak1: Sure looks good :) |
| 07:40.25 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 07:45.38 | dirak1 | CM: ;) |
| 07:47.34 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet_ (n=sixfeet@p5484F888.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 07:51.46 | *** join/#openmoko xkr47 (i=xkr47@slashbox.net) |
| 07:54.22 | xkr47 | koen: you sent some msg via apt but I don't know how to read it :) |
| 07:54.33 | CM | xkr47: http://blog.printf.net/articles/2007/02/22/unboxing-the-openmoko-phone |
| 07:54.38 | koen | <PROTECTED> |
| 07:54.55 | xkr47 | thx |
| 07:55.16 | xkr47 | my internet has been broken for days now :P |
| 07:59.23 | *** join/#openmoko dullard (n=jim@adsl-static-1-30.uklinux.net) |
| 08:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=test@59.176.103.149) |
| 08:03.54 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth_ (i=friedrij@c-24-9-77-90.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 08:06.21 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz_ (i=inezz@195.113.97.158) |
| 08:07.34 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:10.10 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-144-101.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 08:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko Genesis_ (n=genesis@dev.aimao.org) |
| 08:10.22 | Genesis_ | hello |
| 08:12.36 | empty_mind | Genesis_, hi |
| 08:12.42 | xkr47 | CM :) |
| 08:13.02 | xkr47 | koen, very nice! |
| 08:13.45 | koen | someone was actually using pulse on their shark (200mhz strongarm) and said it was slow |
| 08:14.01 | xkr47 | without your patch ? |
| 08:14.04 | koen | yes |
| 08:14.21 | xkr47 | well I guess we'll have feedback then :) |
| 08:14.23 | koen | so 10 minutes of puzzling later, OE now set the appropriate resample method |
| 08:14.44 | xkr47 | they were using OE on the shark ? |
| 08:15.54 | koen | and OE built distro, yes |
| 08:16.00 | koen | s/and/an/ |
| 08:16.42 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B8F13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:19.01 | xkr47 | CM: you know what the resolution on the opensource laptop is ?-) |
| 08:19.29 | CM | xkr47: Doesn't that depend if you use it in monochrome or not? |
| 08:19.35 | xkr47 | I don't know :) |
| 08:21.47 | CM | Resolution: 1200 x 900 (200 dpi) |
| 08:21.47 | CM | Mono display: High-resolution, reflective monochrome mode |
| 08:21.48 | CM | Color display: Standard-resolution, quincunx-sampled, transmissive color mode |
| 08:22.14 | xkr47 | oh ok :) |
| 08:22.28 | xkr47 | standard.. :) |
| 08:22.58 | CM | well, 200 dpi is pretty high |
| 08:23.07 | CM | The screen is 7.5" |
| 08:23.13 | xkr47 | yeah, it's mokoish :) |
| 08:23.33 | CM | "the usable resolution in colour mode is closer to 400x300 than 1200x900 sadly" |
| 08:24.20 | xkr47 | mm |
| 08:26.25 | empty_mind | guys i managed to compile openmoko somehow. Now how do i start writing apps for openmoko ? |
| 08:26.27 | koen | because of marketing |
| 08:31.48 | buz | mhh so does the lcd screen use subpixels in black/white mode? |
| 08:34.54 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 08:36.57 | *** join/#openmoko _MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 08:40.21 | xkr47 | empty_mind, look for "example" stuff in the openmoko tree |
| 08:40.45 | empty_mind | xkr47, thnxs |
| 08:40.55 | xkr47 | find -iname '*example*' |
| 08:41.28 | empty_mind | xkr47, but how do i test the apps or the compiled image? |
| 08:41.38 | xkr47 | and if you want to run them on your pc, there's a "running openmoko apps on your pc" page (or similar) on the iwki |
| 08:41.51 | koen | buz: subpixels would mean 1200x300 or 400x900 |
| 08:42.09 | koen | buz: I never heard of one pixel having 9 subpixels, but of course, this could be the first :) |
| 08:42.12 | empty_mind | xkr47, thnxs again |
| 08:42.38 | buz | oh right , i forgot you have two dimensions |
| 08:42.53 | xkr47 | empty_mind, I think there's a link to that page on the top of the "building openmoko" wiki page |
| 08:42.54 | buz | seemed to work nicely with 1200/3=400 in my early morning mind |
| 08:43.03 | xkr47 | but a search for "PC" should find it I think |
| 08:45.09 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar_ (n=demitar@c-212-031-189-208.cust.broadway.se) |
| 08:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 09:00.04 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@miranda/contributor/eblis) |
| 09:05.32 | CM | Each pixel of the OLPC display can only show one color and they're lined up diagonally, you have 4 pixels for each correctly "colored" pixel you want to draw (imaginary 600x450 res) and two of those will of course be the same color, like RGGB. They do antialias and "color swizzling" to get the most readability out of it. (Normal lcd's have all three color components per pixel) |
| 09:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B8F13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:09.56 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@uekae-subnet-out.ume.tubitak.gov.tr) |
| 09:17.57 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 09:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 09:21.08 | LuitvD | good mornin' |
| 09:24.03 | LuitvD | hello bastard |
| 09:24.05 | LuitvD | :P |
| 09:24.18 | LuitvD | why LuckyBasterd? got your device already? |
| 09:24.25 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 09:24.34 | mickeyl | no, i just successfully defended my thesis |
| 09:24.34 | LuitvD | ... |
| 09:24.36 | mickeyl | yesterday |
| 09:24.41 | buz | congrats |
| 09:24.43 | LuitvD | ah yes, I read about that |
| 09:24.47 | LuitvD | gratz' |
| 09:24.51 | buz | phd thesis i take it |
| 09:25.11 | LuitvD | buz: got a response yet? |
| 09:25.11 | buz | no |
| 09:25.17 | mickeyl | buz: right |
| 09:25.18 | LuitvD | me neither |
| 09:25.23 | buz | but i figured you should send your mail to the CEO maybe? |
| 09:25.51 | LuitvD | yeah... possibly... |
| 09:25.58 | LuitvD | buy how do you get his adress :P |
| 09:26.52 | LuitvD | buz: wanna see what I sent him? |
| 09:30.41 | LuitvD | if their response is positive, I'll post the mail + response on the wiki I guess... |
| 09:34.06 | CM | mickeyl: Saw that Chris Ball had a Neo alredy.. Are they being delivered to the phase 0 ppl alread? :) |
| 09:34.43 | CM | s/alread/now/ |
| 09:34.45 | mickeyl | CM: no, we are waiting for some ugly last minute power management + gsm fixes before we can start shipping. I guess he got Sean drunk and then talked him out of his demo device. |
| 09:34.53 | mickeyl | heh |
| 09:34.55 | CM | Hehe.. Ok |
| 09:35.55 | mickeyl | i have something that really looks like a phone now. i'm going to finish my OE presentation and then load up some software onto the device to demo @ FOSDEM |
| 09:36.06 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar_ (n=demitar@c-212-031-189-208.cust.broadway.se) |
| 09:37.59 | inz | foo |
| 09:38.02 | inz | s/foo/bar/ |
| 09:38.06 | inz | cool |
| 09:38.07 | LuitvD | :P |
| 09:38.24 | inz | tr/o/a/ |
| 09:38.28 | inz | feh |
| 09:38.40 | LuitvD | too bad his script doesn't do complicated regular expressions |
| 09:39.08 | inz | Like s/feh/system("rm -RF /")/e? |
| 09:40.54 | LuitvD | more like s/([\w](3))\s([\w](5))/\\1\\0/ |
| 09:41.13 | inz | does it even do g? |
| 09:41.14 | inz | foo |
| 09:41.20 | inz | s/o/a/g |
| 09:41.22 | inz | nope |
| 09:41.29 | LuitvD | yep |
| 09:41.30 | inz | Was too quick ;) |
| 09:41.36 | LuitvD | lol |
| 09:42.08 | LuitvD | so, what does a \ do |
| 09:42.10 | LuitvD | foo |
| 09:42.17 | LuitvD | s/foo/b\ar/ |
| 09:42.20 | LuitvD | hmm |
| 09:42.24 | LuitvD | that's not nice... |
| 09:42.28 | LuitvD | foo |
| 09:42.35 | LuitvD | s/foo/b\[ar/ |
| 09:42.42 | LuitvD | :S |
| 09:42.46 | inz | foo |
| 09:42.51 | inz | s/[of]/a/g |
| 09:43.03 | LuitvD | lol |
| 09:43.15 | inz | That is no regular expression... |
| 09:43.21 | LuitvD | should get you aaa |
| 09:43.50 | inz | yeah |
| 09:43.51 | inz | foo |
| 09:43.51 | LuitvD | it's not a regexp engine in his script, that is clear now :P |
| 09:43.53 | inz | s/o$/a/ |
| 09:43.57 | LuitvD | even the simplest... |
| 09:43.58 | inz | indeed it is not |
| 09:43.58 | xkr47 | enough testing!!! |
| 09:44.01 | inz | ;) |
| 09:44.04 | LuitvD | lol! |
| 09:44.08 | inz | We gonna breaks it! |
| 09:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 09:44.25 | xkr47 | we gonna /ignore you soon |
| 09:44.29 | LuitvD | DDoS attack on an IRC script... suuure |
| 09:44.29 | xkr47 | :P |
| 09:46.21 | buz | dos attack on our nerves |
| 09:46.51 | LuitvD | that's called epilepsy |
| 09:46.59 | inz | There should be a #sandbox channel for every bot feature |
| 09:47.07 | LuitvD | :) |
| 09:48.03 | inz | The only bot script I've ever written just tells me when should I leave to catch a bus. |
| 09:48.17 | LuitvD | inz, you can /msg apt |
| 09:48.17 | daxxar | :-) |
| 09:48.37 | buz | suddenly stopped worked |
| 09:48.48 | buz | ~s/worked/working |
| 09:48.51 | LuitvD | what? |
| 09:48.57 | buz | duplicity.nongnu.org |
| 09:49.03 | buz | like encrypted rdiff-backup |
| 09:49.19 | buz | for the truly paranoid like myself |
| 09:49.40 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B002D4.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 09:50.13 | LuitvD | that's a nice backup system... |
| 09:51.55 | LuitvD | why isn't +s set on this channel? |
| 09:52.43 | Stephmw | inz: there is, #flood is usually the place to go test bots... or just create a private channel |
| 10:07.27 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 10:10.29 | *** join/#openmoko nm (n=hongtd@58.187.131.143) |
| 10:12.35 | *** join/#openmoko mattions (n=mattions@nat8120.ebi.ac.uk) |
| 10:15.15 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@86.34.3.192) |
| 10:20.26 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-39-140.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 10:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@ns1.gyte.edu.tr) |
| 10:28.59 | *** join/#openmoko guru_ (n=guru@chello080108202166.3.13.vie.surfer.at) |
| 10:29.13 | mattions | hello, the device can support two different SIM at the same time? |
| 10:30.06 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-38-165.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 10:30.09 | __doc__ | can it? :) |
| 10:30.12 | __doc__ | kewl |
| 10:30.47 | LuitvD | mattions: I think so... if you have a dualsim-card... |
| 10:32.12 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 10:32.16 | mattions | well I have two different SIM at the moment |
| 10:32.37 | mattions | So it will be really handy to have the phone that can take care of the two.. |
| 10:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178228216.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 10:33.42 | mattions | When somebody try to contact me on the number A and I'm phoning on the number B it can swap the calls, as normally happen when another call arrive on the same number.. |
| 10:33.53 | mattions | I don't know if I was clear... |
| 10:34.05 | *** join/#openmoko cydork (n=vihang@unaffiliated/cydork) |
| 10:34.13 | mattions | LuitvD: what do you mean dualsim-card? |
| 10:34.18 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 10:34.22 | LuitvD | that's what I mean... |
| 10:34.29 | mattions | good.. It can? |
| 10:34.31 | mattions | really? |
| 10:34.34 | LuitvD | not sure |
| 10:34.37 | buz | you need two gsm modules for that |
| 10:34.37 | mjr | mattions, the real answer is "no it can't" |
| 10:34.52 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 10:34.56 | LuitvD | mjr: not yet? |
| 10:35.00 | buz | there is no mass market phone that can do this |
| 10:35.07 | buz | LuitvD: not ever i'd say |
| 10:35.12 | mjr | there's some operators that have dual sim cards that can change identity based on PIM on one card, which I think is what LuitvD was talking about |
| 10:35.12 | LuitvD | mjr: isn't it just a software issue? |
| 10:35.13 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B8F13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:35.23 | buz | no |
| 10:35.25 | mjr | LuitvD, no |
| 10:35.28 | LuitvD | :S |
| 10:35.33 | buz | unless you want to start hacking the gsm stack |
| 10:35.40 | mattions | but it would be really useful ... |
| 10:35.46 | LuitvD | then why can my device recognise 2 diffrent sim cards at once? |
| 10:35.59 | LuitvD | (well actually not at once, but at startup...) |
| 10:36.08 | mattions | you need to handle two signal at the same moment.. |
| 10:36.09 | buz | see, there's the difference |
| 10:36.11 | tigert | you can do call swapping in one number also |
| 10:36.15 | tigert | so whats the point? :) |
| 10:36.16 | buz | with one modem, you can have one number |
| 10:36.34 | buz | if you need more numbers, get voip |
| 10:36.43 | mattions | I mean I need the two phone working at the same time |
| 10:36.50 | tigert | you hopefully have just one mouth anyway :) |
| 10:36.51 | LuitvD | ah, that's impossible |
| 10:36.58 | buz | well it could be done |
| 10:37.15 | buz | but it would require some serious engineering |
| 10:37.32 | buz | i suspect weird things would happen with two gsm modules in the same case |
| 10:37.33 | LuitvD | but having two simcards of different providers, of which one can be chosen upon login, that's already possible in most gsm devices |
| 10:37.35 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-3-147.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 10:37.37 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@p57AEA309.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:37.37 | mjr | mattions, there's really not much market for that. Can't you do with call forwarding? |
| 10:37.41 | mattions | I mean instead of using two phone, one for A and one for B, just one phone with two number A and B, on different network. |
| 10:37.55 | mjr | LuitvD, most? I think not... |
| 10:38.01 | LuitvD | mjr: many |
| 10:38.25 | greentux | so, start the brussel journey in 10 min... cu guys. |
| 10:38.42 | LuitvD | greentux: from where? |
| 10:39.20 | LuitvD | mjr: a device like this: http://home.wanadoo.nl/hverbij/dsmp2.jpg |
| 10:39.48 | mattions | mjr: I'm not an expert... I never thought about the call fowarding.. |
| 10:39.55 | mattions | I'm pretty new to this situation. |
| 10:40.16 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BCECE.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:40.55 | mjr | LuitvD, hmm. Right. Ok, with an addon like that it will likely be possible to choose the SIM at startup _if_ the device fits into the Neo, but still not what mattions wanted |
| 10:41.30 | mattions | I think so. |
| 10:41.32 | LuitvD | mjr: there's also a device that can fit two SIM cores in the space of one card |
| 10:41.40 | mattions | Two networks signal one phone.. |
| 10:42.10 | LuitvD | two networks at once would be too difficult for one gsm module to handle... |
| 10:42.14 | LuitvD | I guess... |
| 10:42.38 | mjr | yep |
| 10:43.08 | mattions | So... it is impossible.. |
| 10:43.33 | mattions | that it means, it is going to take more times... |
| 10:45.31 | nibbler_de | these cards work via sim toolkit |
| 10:45.34 | buz | call forwarding usualyl works but might cost a lot depending on your carrier |
| 10:46.01 | buz | even worse when it's two different carriers involved |
| 10:46.34 | nibbler_de | it forwards all requests other than STK to the sim and via STK you can choose which card you want to use and then it switches the cards |
| 10:47.41 | nibbler_de | it's a really dirty hack imho and comsumes much more power than just one sim card |
| 10:48.53 | nibbler_de | there are btw. actually phones that support two simcards and have two gsm radiomodems -> benefon twin. |
| 10:52.38 | mjr | yeah, there was that |
| 10:52.45 | mjr | now that you remind me |
| 10:53.29 | nibbler_de | long long time ago :) |
| 10:53.48 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar_ (n=demitar@c-212-031-189-208.cust.broadway.se) |
| 10:54.43 | nibbler_de | nowadays the hardware is quite cheap and with all those new fancy stuff like software synthesizers i wonder why there is no vendor that sells modern multi-sim phones |
| 10:57.26 | *** join/#openmoko ynezz (i=inezz@195.113.97.158) |
| 10:58.04 | buz | rf issues could be hard |
| 10:58.17 | nibbler_de | why? |
| 10:58.40 | buz | because you have two independent radios transmitting at approximately the same frequency in a small case |
| 10:58.51 | nibbler_de | you already have bluetooth and 802.11b in modern phones - both even in the same frequency range, even overlapping |
| 10:59.04 | buz | yeah but often you can only use one at a time |
| 10:59.16 | nibbler_de | that's not true |
| 10:59.22 | nibbler_de | i've never seen such a restriction |
| 10:59.33 | nibbler_de | not with htc or nokia devices |
| 10:59.50 | buz | friends nokia e60 starts behaving weirdly when both are being used |
| 11:00.27 | nibbler_de | interesting. never had these problems with my e70 |
| 11:00.39 | nibbler_de | i use voip over wlan and a bluetooth headset - works. |
| 11:02.18 | LuitvD | what's the resolution on that e70? |
| 11:03.01 | buz | 450x320 or some such |
| 11:03.03 | nibbler_de | http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_e70-1323.php says 352 x 416 pixels, 35 x 41 mm |
| 11:03.19 | buz | ive never seen a e70 in any shop |
| 11:03.26 | buz | its a weird concept to begin with |
| 11:03.32 | nibbler_de | they have only made about 60k devices at all |
| 11:03.46 | nibbler_de | none of the operators in .eu did addopt them for marketing |
| 11:03.47 | *** part/#openmoko dirakx (n=dirakx@69.79.145.81) |
| 11:03.57 | nibbler_de | you have to order them via wholesale |
| 11:04.03 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081E84D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 11:04.05 | buz | well i give shit on what operators adop |
| 11:04.06 | buz | t |
| 11:04.12 | LuitvD | would be a nice device to run moko on :P |
| 11:04.26 | buz | na, i want it on e90 |
| 11:05.11 | buz | the form factor is just too weird |
| 11:05.12 | nibbler_de | buz: me neither - but that's the reason why you don't see it out there :) |
| 11:05.12 | nibbler_de | buz: you get used to it |
| 11:05.13 | buz | i dont see why they didnt simply do a tytnesque slider |
| 11:05.18 | nibbler_de | the biggest problem with E90 is that it's S60 |
| 11:05.25 | buz | oh wait, s60 cant do touchscreen |
| 11:05.33 | buz | thats probably why |
| 11:05.46 | buz | e90 is most hampered by absence of touchscreen |
| 11:05.51 | buz | surfing with a stick is painful |
| 11:05.56 | nibbler_de | buz: because sliders tend to break and you actually can type faster using the phone with two thumbs |
| 11:06.17 | buz | the mechasnism in e70doesnt seem very trustworthy to me either |
| 11:06.38 | buz | and it looks ugly |
| 11:07.00 | nibbler_de | communicators never needed touchscreens - they had a lot of softkeys and a clear menu structure - perfect for work. the E90 however only has two softkeys but no menu anymore - it's a crippled communicator :( |
| 11:07.12 | nibbler_de | the E70 is quite robust |
| 11:07.19 | buz | they dont need touchscreens for work |
| 11:07.23 | buz | but for the web |
| 11:07.34 | buz | navigation on a touchscreen is much nicer |
| 11:08.54 | *** part/#openmoko schurig (n=schurig@pD95F8A89.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:11.14 | nibbler_de | that in deed. |
| 11:11.33 | nibbler_de | then again - websites for mobile devices should have matching navigation :) |
| 11:11.40 | nibbler_de | ...in a perfect world of course |
| 11:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-43-169.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 11:20.56 | mattions | but it's possible to have two sims in the some device.. |
| 11:21.16 | nibbler_de | mattions: yes. the benefon twin for example |
| 11:21.23 | mattions | yeah. |
| 11:21.44 | mattions | so It's going to be possible also on the openmoko? |
| 11:22.26 | nibbler_de | i don't think the moko will have more than one transceiver |
| 11:28.47 | mattions | understood. |
| 11:29.21 | mattions | But It will be really cool, if the hardware of the openmoko could be custumizable as the user need. |
| 11:32.56 | *** join/#openmoko Cockroach- (n=saaskoli@gw.solution.yomi.com) |
| 11:36.18 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 11:40.53 | buz | hows customizable hardware supposed to work witha phone |
| 11:41.07 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 11:41.14 | mattions | buz: no idea |
| 11:41.19 | buz | LOL |
| 11:41.28 | buz | ok a compact flash slot would be eminently useful to me |
| 11:41.49 | mattions | I know what I want, I don't know how to get it working :) |
| 11:42.05 | buz | develop your own phone |
| 11:43.09 | buz | you can buy gsm modules |
| 11:43.10 | mattions | well i will try to contribute to this one.. |
| 11:43.18 | mjr | well, neo1973 will have only one transceiver, it might be conceivable that openmoko should support also multiple ones, but that's probably not a focus of anyone currently developing, since it'd need the hardware too ;) |
| 11:43.19 | mattions | if I have enough time.. |
| 11:43.38 | mattions | yeah.. I can wait.. |
| 11:43.42 | buz | mhh maybe there are bluetooth gsm modules LOL |
| 11:43.53 | buz | i think they are called mobile phones ;) |
| 11:43.54 | mattions | ghgh |
| 11:43.57 | dottedmag | buz: wifi ones :) |
| 11:44.01 | mjr | buz, :D |
| 11:44.10 | buz | i'm still waiting for the BT wifi gw |
| 11:44.25 | buz | and a response from e28 for that matter |
| 11:44.30 | mjr | buz, yeah, no more on the discs then? |
| 11:44.46 | buz | never heard of it after the initial announcement |
| 11:47.27 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 11:48.46 | buz | sirf3 has open source drivers yes? |
| 11:58.37 | *** join/#openmoko _MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 12:08.12 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 12:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@212.41.157.237) |
| 12:15.15 | LuitvD | buz: the sirf star 3 is a widely used chipset... I think it's well supported... |
| 12:17.37 | SpeedEvil | buz: It depends on the UI - surfing with a stick - I so most of my surfing that way (laptop with thumbstick). Especially combined with mousegestures (click right + drag in direction = back/forward/...) it's quite acceptable. |
| 12:18.44 | SpeedEvil | nibbler_de: The not-as-good alternative - switching between two SIMs would be relatively simple with [[Expansion Back]] - an additional n SIMs in sockets on the back of the phone. |
| 12:19.57 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 12:21.05 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
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| 12:25.40 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 12:26.03 | SpeedEvil | I was thinking of perhaps stealing the side-button for a gesture button. |
| 12:26.13 | nibbler_de | SpeedEvil: sure - but that's ugly :) |
| 12:26.49 | SpeedEvil | I don't know it'd be ugly - it's 3-5mm thicker. For a lot of options. |
| 12:27.50 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@80-192-23-26.stb.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 12:31.34 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@miranda/contributor/eblis) |
| 12:32.03 | nibbler_de | expansion pack for more features, yes. for just more simcards? no. |
| 12:32.20 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 12:32.45 | SpeedEvil | And the multiple SIMs would only be usable one at a time. |
| 12:33.00 | SpeedEvil | As otherwise requires support in hardware. |
| 12:33.05 | SpeedEvil | (the GSM hardware) |
| 12:33.54 | nibbler_de | E70 is for ssh, mail, webstuff. k800i is for private use, photos, mp3, rss, news. good ol' 6310i is the AS250 noc phone which is passed arround occassionly |
| 12:34.31 | SpeedEvil | That's quite an array :) |
| 12:35.03 | nibbler_de | yeah - but it's the a nice combination and a complete featureset :) |
| 12:35.20 | nibbler_de | it solves also the problem that there are no tariffs that fit my need. |
| 12:35.29 | SpeedEvil | It'd probably be lighter to take a laptop with a datacard that does multiple SIMs :) |
| 12:35.33 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-136-062.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:35.48 | nibbler_de | nah - wouldn't fit into my pockets :) |
| 12:36.46 | nibbler_de | however i have an additional datacard an a T42p in my backpack with me almost all the time (alongtogether with a motorola iridium phone - but admiting this clearly puts me into the communication maniac corner) |
| 12:36.58 | *** join/#openmoko rboehme (n=rboehme@dsl001-156-033.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 12:38.19 | SpeedEvil | Aha! /me goes to add 'Iridium capability' to hardware:wishlist :) |
| 12:38.42 | nibbler_de | haha :) |
| 12:38.49 | nibbler_de | nah - thuraya is cooler |
| 12:39.15 | nibbler_de | you can roam with many gsm sims in thuraya these days |
| 12:39.21 | nibbler_de | incoming sms for free, etc. |
| 12:39.41 | nibbler_de | though they only have limited coverage... but adorable tiny handsets |
| 12:41.13 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: Iridium and Gallileo |
| 12:42.04 | *** join/#openmoko Marex-debian (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 12:43.54 | SpeedEvil | GLONASS! :) |
| 12:44.21 | nibbler_de | TELEDESIC for the win! :) |
| 12:44.35 | nibbler_de | ultramobile satellite broadband |
| 12:44.42 | nibbler_de | total media convergence. |
| 12:47.39 | *** join/#openmoko denis^weg (n=denis@p549BED0E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:51.00 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - I diddn't realise GLONASS is actually having new satellites put up. |
| 12:51.23 | SpeedEvil | And they're lifting the P-code restrictions, to make it similar to GPS. |
| 12:51.45 | SpeedEvil | Still be 2009 before it's fully up and running though worldwide - it's not got enough satellites yet. |
| 12:51.47 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 12:53.52 | SpeedEvil | nibbler_de: The first gallileo recievers will be combined GPS/gallileo ones. |
| 12:54.04 | SpeedEvil | There are already combined GPS/glonass chipsets. |
| 12:54.38 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:56.45 | aloril2 | counter |
| 12:56.45 | aloril | P0: 5 days 23:03:14 (-0.039 - 5.961 days); P1: 21.961 - 36.961; P2: 189.961 - 219.961 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (389) |
| 12:57.38 | SpeedEvil | And the first GPS recievers sucked because hardware of the required complexity was expensive - it now no longer is. |
| 13:00.05 | SpeedEvil | The advantage is that if you have more satellites in view - even of different systems, you can get better positions. Especially in cities with tall buildings that block satellites. You're more likely to have several in view. |
| 13:01.20 | dottedmag | SpeedEvil: GPS/glonass? Are they transportable :) |
| 13:01.34 | SpeedEvil | transportable? |
| 13:01.39 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1082 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/ (3 files in 2 dirs): panel-plugins/README: catch up w/ forthcoming move to matchbox-panel-2 |
| 13:02.27 | dottedmag | SpeedEvil: I think any technology box related to the Russian army is at least 10kg :) |
| 13:03.05 | SpeedEvil | Ah. There are GPS/GLONASS chipsets out there that don't use much power. |
| 13:07.52 | nibbler_de | SpeedEvil: that's true in deed - but with regard to the umts hardware... there has been many tinkering until they had it working and reasonably small - of course gallileo is less complex than umts |
| 13:08.31 | SpeedEvil | Well - not really. |
| 13:08.57 | SpeedEvil | There are many differnces - GPS knowledge can pretty much be ported straight over to gallileo. |
| 13:09.11 | SpeedEvil | There are no technically hard bits, or bits that required high power. |
| 13:09.42 | SpeedEvil | There are technically hard parts in the UTMS spec - at least at first, due to it being designed at the leading edge of technology. |
| 13:09.57 | nibbler_de | what's the difference anyway? can't be that much - satellites emmiting a known signal floating arround on known positions... |
| 13:10.16 | nibbler_de | i guess the wcdma is the hardest part |
| 13:10.20 | SpeedEvil | They are all subtly different, and incompatible for 'security' reasons. |
| 13:10.26 | nibbler_de | needs heavy dsps... |
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| 13:18.56 | *** part/#openmoko donpeyote (n=donpeyot@89-180-25-186.net.novis.pt) |
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| 14:58.25 | PBeck | hi |
| 15:01.45 | LuitvD | hello |
| 15:03.50 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@miranda/contributor/eblis) |
| 15:06.43 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
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| 15:08.38 | LuitvD | hmm, openembedded gets more interesting now :) finally start seeing the power of it |
| 15:10.34 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=user@a85-156-253-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 15:12.08 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
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| 15:44.13 | LuitvD | CM: already listened 200 modtracker files, because of that thing about ringtones on the Neo :P |
| 15:46.28 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (i=proxy@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
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| 15:53.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1083 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (10 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 15:53.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: preboot-override.patch: execute command string from RAM (overrides normal |
| 15:53.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: operation) |
| 15:53.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: uboot-neo1973-resume.patch: adjusted to fit with the other start.S patches |
| 15:53.51 | CIA-7 | openmoko: boot-from-ram-and-nand.patch: decide whether to boot from RAM or NAND at run |
| 15:53.54 | CIA-7 | openmoko: time |
| 15:53.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: dynenv-harden.patch: "dynenv set" also updates environment offset in running |
| 15:58.12 | *** join/#openmoko Ryushin (n=Ryushin@windwalker.openinnovations.com) |
| 16:09.16 | *** join/#openmoko T2 (n=tv@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net) |
| 16:12.52 | LuitvD | is it okay for me to draft a wiki page in my User_talk page, and move it when it's ready? |
| 16:13.01 | LuitvD | I'm not that good with wiki's :) |
| 16:13.11 | SpeedEvil | Sure. |
| 16:13.36 | SpeedEvil | You can draft it by 'show preview' too. |
| 16:13.41 | *** part/#openmoko keverets (n=flynn@U54.N62.QueensU.CA) |
| 16:13.53 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca) |
| 16:16.14 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: yeah I know... but I don't really know how to create a new page XD |
| 16:16.24 | LuitvD | oh wait... now I do... :P |
| 16:16.37 | LuitvD | just enter the desired name, and it's there :D |
| 16:16.44 | SpeedEvil | Magic, isn't it. |
| 16:17.07 | SpeedEvil | Slackware for the win! |
| 16:17.08 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 16:17.32 | jebba | LuitvD, you can slap your own user page around all you want ;) |
| 16:17.37 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 16:17.44 | LuitvD | jebba: yay, thanks :D |
| 16:17.44 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 16:19.46 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@86.34.3.192) |
| 16:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 16:20.55 | LuitvD | is this good enough for a new panel application? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/User_talk:LuitvD |
| 16:22.49 | LuitvD | shall I make a new page out of that? |
| 16:23.16 | jebba | if you do, i think you're supposed to do it as a Wishlist: page |
| 16:23.49 | LuitvD | why? ... because there's no real plans yet? |
| 16:24.40 | LuitvD | jebba: in a way that it can always be moved to the real place? |
| 16:25.01 | SpeedEvil | IIRC wishlist pages have an automatic disclaimer at teh top saying 'this is future struff that doesn't work' |
| 16:25.22 | SpeedEvil | that doesn't go away until you put in the magic incantation, |
| 16:25.39 | LuitvD | ... |
| 16:26.27 | LuitvD | should I make it "Wishlist: Data Traffic Monitor" and ask one of the core people to concider making a feature out of it? |
| 16:28.07 | *** join/#openmoko sam_ (n=sam@gw.drjays.com) |
| 16:33.26 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:33.28 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 16:34.13 | LuitvD | :) |
| 16:35.31 | jebba | LuitvD, basically if it's not a feature yet, it should be a Wishlist: article for clarity. |
| 16:35.45 | LuitvD | jebba: done :) |
| 16:39.18 | jebba | ya, looks nice ;) |
| 16:43.31 | LuitvD | thanks :) |
| 16:52.03 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 16:53.18 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p213.54.21.203.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
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| 17:10.35 | _-InFeRnO-_ | hello |
| 17:10.53 | _-InFeRnO-_ | anyone knows if i can compile OM on FreeBSD |
| 17:11.05 | _-InFeRnO-_ | or i shouldn't bother |
| 17:12.26 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ? |
| 17:14.03 | LuitvD | yes |
| 17:14.20 | _-InFeRnO-_ | but without kernel or trivial userspace utils? |
| 17:14.30 | LuitvD | err... |
| 17:14.41 | LuitvD | you'll need some software... |
| 17:14.46 | LuitvD | http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro |
| 17:14.47 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yes |
| 17:14.49 | LuitvD | take a look at that first |
| 17:15.03 | _-InFeRnO-_ | but i want the OM userspace only |
| 17:15.14 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i'll try to make that run on FBSD |
| 17:15.20 | LuitvD | err... don't know how to do that :P |
| 17:15.31 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i have to go through MokoMakefile |
| 17:15.54 | LuitvD | you might... |
| 17:16.07 | LuitvD | it's not mandatory... but it's the easyest way :P |
| 17:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:16.28 | _-InFeRnO-_ | no |
| 17:16.35 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i mean editing it |
| 17:17.17 | LuitvD | ah, well... yes |
| 17:18.47 | *** join/#openmoko orion_ (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
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| 17:23.39 | _-InFeRnO-_ | aaargh |
| 17:23.46 | _-InFeRnO-_ | the mokomakefile is too confusing |
| 17:24.09 | _-InFeRnO-_ | this bugs me |
| 17:26.29 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-244.media.mit.edu) |
| 17:29.46 | _-InFeRnO-_ | crap. I fetch from SVN, but it freezes at the 20th or so file |
| 17:31.04 | jebba | just let it keep running.... |
| 17:31.31 | _-InFeRnO-_ | it's at uboot, something that I don't need |
| 17:33.30 | _-InFeRnO-_ | for how much time it's supposed to fetch |
| 17:33.47 | cjb | _-InFeRnO-_: dude, relax. :) |
| 17:34.43 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i'm in a rush to hack mercilessly code |
| 17:35.41 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yaay it's now fetching all text files |
| 17:37.09 | _-InFeRnO-_ | is OM right now capable of Bluetooth OBEX |
| 17:38.03 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:38.14 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
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| 17:44.26 | jebba | _-InFeRnO-_, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware#Bluetooth |
| 17:47.02 | _-InFeRnO-_ | no |
| 17:47.09 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i want to know about software |
| 17:47.47 | SpeedEvil | It's as capable as linux. |
| 17:47.52 | _-InFeRnO-_ | no |
| 17:47.53 | SpeedEvil | There are no actual apps written yet. |
| 17:47.58 | _-InFeRnO-_ | does it have support in the apps |
| 17:48.02 | SpeedEvil | There are no actual apps written yet. |
| 17:48.07 | _-InFeRnO-_ | (filemanager) |
| 17:48.27 | SpeedEvil | Or the apps that are are in a very, very basic state. |
| 17:48.40 | SpeedEvil | It's 7 months till release time, it'll work then. |
| 17:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko inz (i=inz@inz.fi) |
| 17:57.41 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ne1 knows where i can download the QVGA gtk theme? |
| 17:58.27 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
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| 18:05.07 | jebba | _-InFeRnO-_, qvga is 320x240, ya? this thing is 480x640 |
| 18:05.39 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@53d82b8d.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 18:06.11 | dottedmag | jebba: which thing? openmoko != neo1973 :) |
| 18:07.07 | jebba | well, i kind of assumed he's thinking neo1973 as there are no other openmoko devices, but i understand your point... |
| 18:11.27 | LuitvD | but who was wroking on the QVGA theme? |
| 18:11.30 | buz | there might be some others |
| 18:11.39 | LuitvD | appeared somewhere in the bugzilla... |
| 18:11.40 | buz | Stefan Schmidt i believe |
| 18:11.58 | LuitvD | buz: still no mail? |
| 18:12.06 | buz | no |
| 18:12.11 | LuitvD | same here |
| 18:13.53 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 18:15.19 | dottedmag | LuitvD: yep, bug #197 |
| 18:17.52 | *** join/#openmoko helb (n=helb@84.244.90.159) |
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| 18:22.19 | LuitvD | thanks dottedmag |
| 18:26.52 | LuitvD | yeah, qvga theme right after fosdem :D |
| 18:28.06 | buz | now we just need e28 to cooperate |
| 18:28.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1084 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (preboot-override.patch uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch): |
| 18:28.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: common/env_common.c (env_relocate): if preboot_override is set, always use the |
| 18:28.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: default environment |
| 18:28.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: board/neo1973/neo1973.c (board_late_init): activate the LCM before the |
| 18:28.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: backlight, to avoid white flash |
| 18:28.34 | LuitvD | lol, that's a nice patch :D |
| 18:33.41 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
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| 18:39.16 | hadara | _-InFeRnO-_: mokomakefile seems to work just fine under fbsd after you install devel/monotone and use gmake instead of make to invoke it |
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| 19:11.12 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin23 (n=Harlekin@p54968BCF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:11.52 | rep | counter? |
| 19:11.52 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; 5 days 16:48:07 (-0.300 - 5.700 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, 5 days (21.700 - 36.700 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 5 days (189.700 - 219.700 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (390) |
| 19:12.17 | LuitvD | yay, lower release limit of p0 passed :P |
| 19:12.39 | SpeedEvil | I assume there'd be something on the ML saying 'shipped - WOO!' if they had. |
| 19:12.56 | LuitvD | yeah... something like that... |
| 19:13.10 | LuitvD | so it's not shipped on the lower limit of the expected range |
| 19:13.21 | LuitvD | any day now :) |
| 19:13.44 | SpeedEvil | I assume they are trying the hardware fixes for P0 phones, before releasing em. |
| 19:14.01 | LuitvD | yeah :) |
| 19:14.14 | LuitvD | were some power management problems I heard... |
| 19:14.25 | LuitvD | s/.../ of.../ |
| 19:15.07 | LuitvD | oh noes, rain :( |
| 19:15.41 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:17.43 | LuitvD | neogirls? |
| 19:17.49 | LuitvD | lol |
| 19:20.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1085 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): |
| 19:20.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: patches/uboot-neo1973-resume.patch, |
| 19:20.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: uboot-s3c2410-norelocate_irqvec_cpy.patch: |
| 19:20.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cpu/arm920t/start.S: make better use of the condition field |
| 19:20.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: patches/uboot-s3c2410-nand_mmc.patch: removed, it's now in ~nand and ~mmc |
| 19:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 19:31.07 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 19:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 19:36.23 | sixfeet | afk |
| 19:39.56 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@65.212.203.130) |
| 19:42.22 | buz | so there ARE black neos |
| 19:42.24 | buz | thank goodness |
| 19:42.34 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 19:42.41 | buz | http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/af9aa618ea7c0110vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd/2.html |
| 19:43.43 | buz | personally i'd even vote for black edges |
| 19:47.21 | LuitvD | :) |
| 19:47.41 | LuitvD | yay, finally, screen and case :D |
| 19:48.26 | buz | thats order of magnitude better than the white one |
| 19:48.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1086 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (3 files): (log message trimmed) |
| 19:48.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: uboot-20061030-neo1973.patch: |
| 19:48.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: include/configs/neo1973.h: added CFG_UBOOT_SIZE, the number of bytes to load |
| 19:48.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: from NAND |
| 19:48.49 | CIA-7 | openmoko: uboot-s3c2410-nand.patch: |
| 19:48.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cpu/arm920t/start.S: use CFG_UBOOT_SIZE instead of hard-coded 0x30000 |
| 19:48.52 | LuitvD | omg, that thing actually looks so perfect :| |
| 19:48.54 | CIA-7 | openmoko: nand-dynamic_partitions.patch: |
| 19:48.55 | buz | (i just wonder why it shows up at popsci of all places) |
| 19:50.18 | LuitvD | it's great the neo doesn't have shiny plastic, which get's ugly/dirty easily |
| 19:50.50 | buz | the white one looks shiny to me |
| 19:51.11 | LuitvD | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:52.19 | *** join/#openmoko davi (n=davi@41.Red-217-127-236.staticIP.rima-tde.net) |
| 19:52.20 | LuitvD | so, who'se device is that? |
| 19:52.29 | loft306 | lol |
| 19:54.18 | *** join/#openmoko ml8128 (n=ml8128@127.105.100-84.rev.gaoland.net) |
| 19:55.28 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 19:58.12 | LuitvD | oeh, I'd like an anti-RFID wallet :D |
| 19:59.09 | LuitvD | http://www.popsci.com/popsci/whatsnew/8d93eed0735ae010vgnvcm1000004eecbccdrcrd/17.html |
| 19:59.31 | buz | should be trivial to do |
| 19:59.41 | buz | old faraday should greatly help there |
| 19:59.46 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:00.01 | LuitvD | it's done the good old faraday way |
| 20:00.11 | LuitvD | so no permanent damage to rfid chips |
| 20:00.25 | buz | which is probably advantageous |
| 20:00.44 | buz | mhh would tinfoil be enough? |
| 20:01.48 | LuitvD | not really... |
| 20:02.00 | LuitvD | you need some sort of grid... |
| 20:02.21 | LuitvD | special grid, depending on frequency of the desired filtered signal |
| 20:02.23 | buz | it's been half a decade since my last physics course ;) |
| 20:02.44 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 20:02.49 | LuitvD | neways... going to watch some television |
| 20:05.13 | *** join/#openmoko MagicFab (n=magicfab@ubuntu/member/magicfab) |
| 20:08.19 | glm2k | this is another look at those black neos http://www.engadget.com/gallery/openmoko-neo1973/161336/ |
| 20:09.33 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@88.128.13.181) |
| 20:12.38 | buz | these are real ones i take it? |
| 20:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@miranda/contributor/eblis) |
| 20:18.21 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 20:22.30 | *** join/#openmoko denis^weg (n=denis@p549BE92B.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 20:23.40 | *** join/#openmoko puddingpimp_work (n=puddingp@gateway.quickcircuit.co.nz) |
| 20:25.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1087 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (lowlevel_foo.patch series): |
| 20:25.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Merged low_level.bin from http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/tmp/bbt-20070206/ |
| 20:25.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: into regular u-boot build. |
| 20:26.06 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 20:30.54 | *** join/#openmoko Ar1 (n=arihut@N253-118.surffi.net) |
| 20:32.08 | *** join/#openmoko RedDog (n=reddog@mastersword.de) |
| 20:36.58 | *** part/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:39.57 | glm2k | buz: i believe so |
| 20:55.58 | *** join/#openmoko denis__ (n=denis@p549BDF39.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:06.31 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 21:10.02 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:13.23 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:14.25 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:14.57 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 21:17.05 | rwhitby | morning |
| 21:18.35 | jebba | hey rwhitby :) |
| 21:19.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1088 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/usb_dfu.h: add dfu file header structure |
| 21:20.18 | rwhitby | jebba: anything interesting happen in the last 18 hours? |
| 21:20.30 | SpeedEvil | There were rumors of P0 delays. |
| 21:20.35 | SpeedEvil | No clarification though. |
| 21:20.42 | SpeedEvil | Not bad delays. |
| 21:20.48 | SpeedEvil | No mention of P1. |
| 21:20.53 | jebba | oh, i'm just figuring out *.bb packages a bit. And I think I chose a PITA package to start with (doing an updated dasher 4.3.3...) |
| 21:21.13 | jebba | a few more fotos appeared on the 'net of the device. The OLPC folks got one somehow :) |
| 21:21.26 | rwhitby | yep, saw that one, thanks. |
| 21:21.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1089 10/trunk/src/host/dfu-util/src/ (main.c sam7dfu.h): |
| 21:21.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * add new '-t' option to specify transfer size |
| 21:21.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * fix '--help' message indentation |
| 21:21.33 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * enable up/download |
| 21:21.33 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * limit transfer size to PAGE_SIZE, since usbdevio (linux kernel) can't handle bigger control xfers |
| 21:21.34 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * add new sam7dfu.h header file |
| 21:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:23.06 | *** join/#openmoko DesktopMa (i=server@ghybel332.grm.hia.no) |
| 21:23.21 | DesktopMa | evening. just read the specs for the phone, very impressive |
| 21:23.33 | DesktopMa | will try to get one of the early models (I've done embedded dev before) |
| 21:23.46 | mjr | get in line ;) |
| 21:23.50 | DesktopMa | :) |
| 21:23.59 | DesktopMa | bit curious to why it has no edge and/or 3g though :) |
| 21:24.21 | rwhitby | openmoko != neo1973 |
| 21:24.31 | DesktopMa | yeah I know |
| 21:24.32 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:24.38 | rwhitby | the neo is just the first device |
| 21:24.38 | DesktopMa | but it's pretty much only one phone in question so far :) |
| 21:24.59 | rwhitby | actually, not so. there are reports of htc universal working |
| 21:25.06 | DesktopMa | cool |
| 21:25.18 | mjr | edge probably a cost issue thingy, and as for 3g, better start with gsm which is more globally usable |
| 21:25.26 | rwhitby | (not sure if it's actually made a call yet) |
| 21:25.29 | mjr | (probably a cost thing there too) |
| 21:25.55 | rwhitby | I'm glad it's not 3G, cause that would cost me more to use it. |
| 21:26.21 | DesktopMa | yeah I guess it's not very nice for those who can't actually use the things with added costs |
| 21:26.29 | DesktopMa | but a model with 3g would surely sell well in europe |
| 21:26.53 | rwhitby | I'm sure there will be a 3g version sooner or later |
| 21:26.58 | DesktopMa | yep |
| 21:27.08 | DesktopMa | still want to get the dev version though, from a dev perspective |
| 21:27.29 | mjr | me too, plus from an "I wants it, my preciousss" perspective |
| 21:27.46 | rwhitby | yeah, from an *openmoko* point of view, gsm vs 3g makes no difference (until the software platform is in a state where it could actually do video and stuff) |
| 21:27.53 | DesktopMa | yeah |
| 21:27.59 | DesktopMa | mjr: lol exactly |
| 21:28.04 | DesktopMa | early hardware is sexy |
| 21:28.22 | rwhitby | (i.e. gsm/gprs vs 3g is not going to affect the contacts application and the writing of location-aware profiles for instance) |
| 21:28.47 | rwhitby | given that the whole point of the project is the sofware platform, not the hardware ... |
| 21:28.49 | DesktopMa | would also prefer a 2d accelerator (low end nvidia embedded perhaps), to give the user end a response boost |
| 21:28.56 | DesktopMa | yep |
| 21:29.40 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:29.44 | rwhitby | maybe they intentionally made it low-end, to encourage embedded developers who know how to optimise for space and speed, rather than people who just port desktop java apps to a phone ... |
| 21:29.53 | DesktopMa | hehe |
| 21:30.03 | DesktopMa | sounds unlikely |
| 21:30.08 | DesktopMa | more of a cost/design issue |
| 21:30.44 | rwhitby | of course, but it does have that nice side effect of sorting out real functionality apps vs glitz apps. |
| 21:30.52 | LuitvD[foo] | rwhitby: got an error on the mokomakefile... |
| 21:31.02 | LuitvD[foo] | though I think it itsn't the mokomakefile being wrong... |
| 21:31.09 | mjr | well, considering they want some of that glitz too in the theme... ;) |
| 21:31.13 | rwhitby | LuitvD[foo]: you need to become a developer to get the lastest patches ... |
| 21:31.24 | LuitvD[foo] | really? :S |
| 21:31.29 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54952F1E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:31.36 | LuitvD | why? |
| 21:32.07 | rwhitby | cause anon svn access is not working on projects.openmoko.org, so you can't see all the latest work otherwise. |
| 21:32.33 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p54952740.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:32.46 | LuitvD | rwhitby: but can the mokomakefile do the work for me, if I could access the svn? |
| 21:33.00 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 21:33.12 | rwhitby | yes, I'm talking about the openmoko svn repo, which holds the patches needed to build head properly |
| 21:33.55 | LuitvD | err... |
| 21:34.04 | rwhitby | LuitvD: did you see my email to openmoko-devel about that the other day? |
| 21:34.11 | LuitvD | it does get a lot of patches... |
| 21:34.34 | MacNorth | ( http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-February/000417.html ) |
| 21:34.44 | LuitvD | thanks MacNorth |
| 21:35.13 | MacNorth | no worries :) |
| 21:35.30 | LuitvD | but I'm not sure if that's the one... |
| 21:35.38 | LuitvD | that's the first mail about mokomakefile... |
| 21:35.48 | MacNorth | the thread has some help |
| 21:36.37 | MacNorth | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-February/000506.html and http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-February/000541.html to be more specific |
| 21:36.48 | DesktopMa | I played a bit around with palm os dev a while ago |
| 21:36.56 | DesktopMa | It made me never want to dev for palm again |
| 21:37.03 | LuitvD | lol |
| 21:37.18 | DesktopMa | most horribly patched wreck of a tool chain ever. |
| 21:37.40 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@archangel.kolej.mff.cuni.cz) |
| 21:39.09 | MetaBookfoziS | why this little one is builded to the openmoko? |
| 21:39.19 | cjb | MetaBookfoziS: it's an awesome display. |
| 21:39.26 | rwhitby | MacNorth: yeah, those are the things which have been fixed at projects.openmoko.org/mokomakefile, but anonymous svn access to that new version of MokoMakefile doesn't work. |
| 21:39.36 | cjb | you can read really small stuff on it |
| 21:39.36 | MetaBookfoziS | ? |
| 21:39.50 | MetaBookfoziS | i know, but it's useless as a touchscreen |
| 21:39.54 | MetaBookfoziS | (i think) |
| 21:40.06 | MetaBookfoziS | for example, howyou contruct an on screen display? |
| 21:40.48 | *** join/#openmoko T2 (n=tv@72-254-192-46.client.stsn.net) |
| 21:41.00 | rwhitby | e.g. https://projects.openmoko.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=mokomakefile |
| 21:41.16 | cjb | MetaBookfoziS: huh? the touchscreen works fine. |
| 21:41.20 | rwhitby | and "svn checkout svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org//var/lib/gforge/chroot/svnroot/mokomakefile" doesn't work either |
| 21:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 21:41.53 | MetaBookfoziS | works works, but your finger pushes the 20%of the screen... |
| 21:42.15 | MacNorth | no kidding, 'Repository not found' |
| 21:42.27 | MacNorth | good thing I'm friedrij :) |
| 21:42.42 | MetaBookfoziS | yep, sorry, so neo, and i know it isn't changeable |
| 21:42.46 | rwhitby | hey MacNorth/friedrij :-) |
| 21:42.52 | MetaBookfoziS | but i wonder why ... |
| 21:43.06 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 21:43.08 | rwhitby | MacNorth: is head building for you? |
| 21:43.10 | buz | wtf is it useless as touchscreen |
| 21:43.21 | buz | the p900 screen is barely larger and eminently useable as touchscreen |
| 21:43.22 | MacNorth | was going to ask a question about that |
| 21:43.26 | MetaBookfoziS | it's small |
| 21:43.29 | MetaBookfoziS | not? |
| 21:43.36 | buz | big enough |
| 21:43.41 | MetaBookfoziS | 43.2 x 57.6 |
| 21:43.48 | MacNorth | using MokoMakefile grabes everything under the sun practically |
| 21:43.50 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 21:44.11 | MetaBookfoziS | 4cm*6cm is not "big" :/ |
| 21:44.17 | rwhitby | MacNorth: everything required to build openmoko-devel-image, yes. |
| 21:44.20 | MacNorth | how do you build head? do you move/copy the makefile to another place or build it in your svn repo |
| 21:44.34 | buz | big enough |
| 21:44.41 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:45.22 | rwhitby | MacNorth: check out the MokoMakefile svn repo to a new dir, so you have Makefile and patches dir. Then that makefile does the work. |
| 21:45.53 | rwhitby | or if you have an existing mokomakefile from the website, just svn co over the top of it. the Makefile from the svn repo replaces the one from the website. |
| 21:46.30 | MacNorth | right, but if i start MokoMakefile in the new svn co directory, then openmoko's svn co is nested in a sense. i was hoping to keep things a bit more flat |
| 21:46.51 | rwhitby | no, that's intentional, to keep the two svn repos separate. |
| 21:47.03 | rwhitby | (since we don't have write access to the openmoko repo) |
| 21:47.11 | MacNorth | a 'svn st' would fill screens :) |
| 21:47.25 | *** part/#openmoko Ar1 (n=arihut@N253-118.surffi.net) |
| 21:48.11 | rwhitby | no, because the top-level svn doesn't know about the lower level ones, so it ignores them. |
| 21:48.42 | MacNorth | but all of the downloaded files and stamps would be in the top level dir. |
| 21:48.45 | rwhitby | (i.e. neither of bitbake or openmoko have been 'svn add'ed to the top-level |
| 21:48.58 | MacNorth | a lonely MokoMakefile creates and populates 5 directories |
| 21:49.00 | rwhitby | no, they are in subdirs bitake, openmoko, openembedded |
| 21:49.24 | buz | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6896388758.html what a waste, using a tasty imx31 to do gsm |
| 21:49.25 | rwhitby | yes, the top-level populates the 5 subdirs from their respective source repositories. |
| 21:51.30 | Genesis_ | what's the website for opensource project of cartography that shoud be good for openmoko ? |
| 21:51.31 | Genesis_ | can't remember and i don't find :( |
| 21:51.32 | rwhitby | MacNorth: the only difference between the MokoMakefile from www.rwhitby.net and the one from the MokoMakefile svn repo is that the latter grabs it's mokomakefile-specific patches (the ones that fix problems in the official stuff) from an svn repo. everything else is the same. |
| 21:51.32 | rwhitby | Genesis_: openstreetmaps? |
| 21:51.32 | Genesis_ | yeap merci |
| 21:51.32 | Genesis_ | thanks |
| 21:51.41 | Genesis_ | bookmarked this time |
| 21:52.17 | MacNorth | alright, i'll give it a shot. :) silly to speak from inexperience |
| 21:52.18 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:52.18 | LuitvD | lol |
| 21:52.37 | LuitvD | rwhitby: now where do I get the right mokomakefile to run overnight? |
| 21:52.57 | MacNorth | nice |
| 21:53.02 | LuitvD | rwhitby: or do I need to register to subversion to get the mokomakefile to work... |
| 21:53.15 | rwhitby | LuitvD: you need to be registered on projects.openmoko.org, and I need to add you as a dev on the MokoMakefile project, then you need to upload your ssh key, then you need to check out the repo and then you have it. |
| 21:53.34 | LuitvD | hmm |
| 21:53.39 | rwhitby | (this is all only until they fix anon svn access, in which case anyone will be able to check it out anonymously and run it) |
| 21:54.02 | LuitvD | err... |
| 21:54.26 | LuitvD | so it might be fixed in a day or two, making this move unnessesary? |
| 21:55.12 | rwhitby | Since it looks like anon svn access is not going to be fixed any time soon (as LaF0rge is busy with more important stuff), I'll probably just change it so it publishes the patches to the web somewhere and the Makefile grabs them from there instead of getting them by anon svn. |
| 21:55.17 | LuitvD | is it a problem with anon subversion, or did they intend to deny anonymous access? |
| 21:55.33 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 21:55.34 | LuitvD | ah |
| 21:55.34 | rwhitby | I believe it's just a GForge setup problem. |
| 21:55.43 | MacNorth | i can see the anon ftp space |
| 21:55.52 | MacNorth | ftp://mokomakefile.projects.openmoko.org/pub/mokomakefile/ |
| 21:55.58 | LuitvD | that's not ftp space.... |
| 21:56.04 | LuitvD | that's subversion isn't it? |
| 21:56.15 | MacNorth | it's what Gforge calls 'ftp' :) |
| 21:56.29 | LuitvD | oh, wait :P |
| 21:56.35 | LuitvD | that one :P |
| 21:56.43 | LuitvD | thought you were browsing svnweb |
| 21:56.52 | rwhitby | svnweb is not working either. |
| 21:57.42 | rwhitby | basically, projects.openmoko.org is not really useable at the moment - it's sort of 'write-only' unless you have developer access to the repo you're interested in. |
| 21:58.04 | rwhitby | (I'm not complaining, cause LaF0rge is doing more important stuff like getting my P0 phone to work :-) |
| 21:58.30 | rwhitby | So I'll work around it sometime over the weekend or next week. |
| 21:59.02 | MacNorth | the svn snapshot link appears to work http://projects.openmoko.org/snapshots.php?group_id=11 |
| 21:59.39 | rwhitby | yeah, but the time delay will cause lots of support overhead, cause I'll fix a problem but people won't be able to see the fix for 12 - 24 hours. |
| 22:00.26 | rwhitby | no, I'll just set it up so that I can push the set of patches to a web site, and the Makefile just grabs them from there. Otherwise I'll just move the svn repo to svn.nslu2-linux.org until svn.projects.openmoko.org works. |
| 22:01.44 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 22:01.59 | rwhitby | LuitvD: you could start with the snapshot that MacNorth just pointed to. That should build head. |
| 22:02.33 | LuitvD | strange, currently the first mokomakefile hangs on something stupid... |
| 22:02.42 | rwhitby | it will be a pain to keep up to date without svn access. |
| 22:02.46 | LuitvD | libx11-X11R7 |
| 22:04.46 | LuitvD | :S |
| 22:04.48 | LuitvD | why? |
| 22:05.02 | LuitvD | is it because one of those patches missing? |
| 22:05.23 | rwhitby | probably |
| 22:05.31 | *** join/#openmoko jasonwilson_ (n=jasonwil@71.39.11.38) |
| 22:05.39 | LuitvD | that sucks... |
| 22:06.05 | rwhitby | LuitvD: you can get latest MokoMakefile and patches from http://projects.openmoko.org/snapshots.php?group_id=11 |
| 22:06.19 | LuitvD | thnx |
| 22:08.18 | LuitvD | ugh, can't wait for that e28 response... |
| 22:08.45 | rwhitby | LuitvD: did you publish the email you sent somewhere? |
| 22:08.45 | LuitvD | I really hope the response is in the form of a device :) |
| 22:08.46 | SpeedEvil | phone them? |
| 22:08.59 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: I can't speak chinese :P |
| 22:09.06 | rwhitby | (e.g. pastebin it?) |
| 22:09.12 | LuitvD | and international calls are REALLY expensive |
| 22:09.20 | LuitvD | rwhitby: just a sec... |
| 22:11.41 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54952368.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:12.54 | DesktopMa | I'm not up to date on call technologies, will the current phone work in europe? (scandinavia) |
| 22:12.54 | rwhitby | NOTE: package openmoko-devel-image-1.0: completed |
| 22:13.00 | rwhitby | head still builds |
| 22:13.02 | MacNorth | nice ;) |
| 22:13.43 | LuitvD | rwhitby: with anon svn? |
| 22:13.57 | glm2k | DesktopMa: it should. asia and europe share similar gsm bands |
| 22:15.54 | *** join/#openmoko whitedrought (n=Jeff@70.98.72.130) |
| 22:16.26 | LuitvD | rwhitby: can you view this? http://docs.google.com/a/luitvd.nl/Doc?id=dvbgvdq_0hb2sqv |
| 22:16.40 | LuitvD | or do I need to dump it as plain text on my domain? |
| 22:18.34 | rwhitby | LuitvD: can't see that. Just pastebin it. |
| 22:18.57 | rwhitby | ~pastebin |
| 22:18.59 | apt | from memory, pastebin is a place to paste your stuff without flooding the channel - try http://pastebin.ca, or http://channels.debian.net/paste, or http://rafb.net/paste/, or http://pastebin.com is usually painfully too slow and unresponsive to use, use one of the other pastebin sites |
| 22:19.57 | LuitvD | http://pastebin.com/887592 |
| 22:20.32 | rwhitby | heh, apt was not joking about pastebin.com being slow ... |
| 22:20.38 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:20.45 | MacNorth | pastebin.ca is a bit better |
| 22:21.08 | LuitvD | thought google docs was slow... pastebin.com was working at the same speed |
| 22:22.03 | LuitvD | rwhitby: I hope I didn't tell any false facts in that mail... |
| 22:24.11 | buz | maybe some more people should inquire |
| 22:24.16 | buz | so they see there is interest? |
| 22:24.30 | LuitvD | wow, I'd love to see something like this from openmoko: http://opie.handhelds.org/gallery/main.php/v/opie12/console.png.html |
| 22:24.32 | LuitvD | :D |
| 22:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko DeVol (n=DeVol@dD5E041D3.access.telenet.be) |
| 22:24.49 | LuitvD | that's VGA res.. look at the amount of space there :D |
| 22:25.08 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 22:25.10 | *** join/#openmoko axelm3 (n=aa@host34.200-45-137.telecom.net.ar) |
| 22:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39.dyn.user.ono.com) |
| 22:25.14 | buz | yeah, only on the neo it will be about 1/4 as big as on your screen |
| 22:25.37 | LuitvD | yeah :) |
| 22:25.39 | LuitvD | well... |
| 22:25.45 | LuitvD | 1/3 |
| 22:25.50 | buz | if you want THAT |
| 22:25.54 | buz | get an universal |
| 22:26.04 | LuitvD | my screen is 96dpi |
| 22:26.17 | LuitvD | the neo is 280? |
| 22:26.39 | mjr | 285 was it |
| 22:26.40 | LuitvD | err. i don't want THAT, i want that amount of info... |
| 22:26.56 | buz | be sure to carry a magnifiying glass |
| 22:27.17 | LuitvD | then it's 2,96875 times bigger on my screen then on a neo :D |
| 22:27.27 | buz | i thought you had decided that you dont really need vga |
| 22:27.32 | mjr | what, you people don't have good eyes? ;) |
| 22:28.09 | LuitvD | buz: haven't decided just yet... |
| 22:28.24 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 22:28.29 | LuitvD | buz: those real-life pictures of the black neo blew my mind |
| 22:28.42 | buz | sure |
| 22:28.43 | axelm3 | anybody know the public release date for the neo1973? |
| 22:28.56 | buz | still, if e28 was cooperative, id get a 2881 |
| 22:28.56 | mjr | counter |
| 22:28.57 | aloril | P0: 5 days 13:31:03 (-0.437 - 5.563 days); P1: 21.563 - 36.563; P2: 189.563 - 219.563 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (391) |
| 22:29.11 | LuitvD | buz: yeah, I guess I'd do so too... |
| 22:29.21 | buz | somehow i doubt it, though |
| 22:29.22 | axelm3 | counter |
| 22:29.22 | aloril | P0: 5 days 13:30:37 (-0.437 - 5.563 days); P1: 21.563 - 36.563; P2: 189.563 - 219.563 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (392) |
| 22:29.34 | buz | considering they dont answer to mails in 30h |
| 22:29.39 | LuitvD | I'd already do it if the e2881 is cheaper then the neo1973 |
| 22:29.59 | buz | i dont really care for price so much |
| 22:30.12 | buz | as long as its not in the road region |
| 22:30.13 | LuitvD | well, it's 6:30 am there now... |
| 22:30.35 | buz | still they had a full day |
| 22:30.48 | LuitvD | lol, if linuxdevices tells us it's a low-cost phone... then I don't expect it to be road-like |
| 22:30.52 | buz | at least coming back with: "we're investigating it" would be nice |
| 22:30.55 | LuitvD | err. it's weekend there now :) |
| 22:31.03 | buz | not sure |
| 22:31.13 | buz | china runs on another time than we do, really |
| 22:31.20 | LuitvD | yeah, that'd be awesome, if one of those E28 guys would drop by in this channel would be cool too |
| 22:31.37 | LuitvD | buz: my world-clock tells me it's saturdaymorning, half past six |
| 22:31.49 | buz | technically thats true |
| 22:31.55 | axelm3 | P0 is for public release? sorry, i don't know what p0,p1 and p2 mean |
| 22:31.55 | buz | but that doesnt mean people dont work on saturday |
| 22:32.00 | LuitvD | so if they work on saturdays, we can expect a response today |
| 22:32.19 | LuitvD | and if they don't, we might even have to wait till monday |
| 22:32.25 | cjb | it's Chinese New Year right now, everyone has the entire week off. |
| 22:32.27 | LuitvD | or tuesday for that matter |
| 22:32.37 | cjb | also, Taiwan != China. |
| 22:32.41 | Clint | ROC |
| 22:32.49 | buz | oh its chinese new year? |
| 22:32.51 | LuitvD | why on earth is that always in a week like this XD |
| 22:32.53 | Clint | year of the piggy |
| 22:32.59 | LuitvD | yay |
| 22:33.05 | LuitvD | let's hug the piggies |
| 22:33.07 | buz | stupid new year keeps moving right? |
| 22:33.15 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:33.23 | MacNorth | 'taiwan != china' depends who you ask ;) china would disagree |
| 22:33.41 | buz | MacNorth: which is why i usually dont get into that discussion on irc ;) |
| 22:33.46 | DeVol | sorry to interrupt, just learned about OpenMoko... Is there actually any hardware available ? |
| 22:34.00 | axelm3 | same question here |
| 22:34.02 | LuitvD | DeVol: almost |
| 22:34.03 | buz | DeVol: prototypes |
| 22:34.07 | LuitvD | axelm3: same answer |
| 22:34.09 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:34.09 | buz | final will ship in march |
| 22:34.22 | buz | (should, anyway) |
| 22:34.29 | LuitvD | that's not final... |
| 22:34.40 | LuitvD | that's more like public beta :P |
| 22:34.40 | DeVol | first appaerance looks frightingly similar to iPhone... |
| 22:34.45 | DeVol | which is a good thing ofcourse ;) |
| 22:34.54 | LuitvD | DeVol: nah... it's better :) |
| 22:35.05 | buz | not very much similarity to the iphone, actually |
| 22:35.09 | LuitvD | DeVol: why would you want it to look like an apple product? :S |
| 22:35.12 | buz | besides being touchcsreen only |
| 22:35.18 | DeVol | does it support normal GSM ? |
| 22:35.22 | LuitvD | yes |
| 22:35.23 | buz | yes |
| 22:35.25 | LuitvD | and GPRS |
| 22:35.31 | DeVol | WIFI ? |
| 22:35.31 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ#Q:_What_is_the_rationale_behind_the_exclusion_of_WiFi.3F |
| 22:35.34 | LuitvD | LOL |
| 22:35.46 | LuitvD | owned by aloril's script once again :) |
| 22:35.59 | buz | FPGA |
| 22:36.00 | DeVol | i only recently discovered Trolltech's Greenphone.. i thought that was cool |
| 22:36.10 | buz | V12 |
| 22:36.11 | LuitvD | DeVol: yeah, and expensive |
| 22:36.19 | axelm3 | what is the msrp on these phones? |
| 22:36.22 | DeVol | yeah similar to iPhone |
| 22:36.23 | buz | mhh no scripts for those, bummer |
| 22:36.26 | buz | 350$ |
| 22:36.36 | LuitvD | DeVol: you can get at least two Neo's for the price of one Greenphone |
| 22:36.36 | DeVol | only 350? :p |
| 22:36.38 | SpeedEvil | And MSRP = price. |
| 22:36.46 | DeVol | so whats the price of the neo? |
| 22:36.50 | SpeedEvil | as there are no other ways to uy them. |
| 22:36.54 | buz | 350$ |
| 22:36.59 | buz | plus shipping |
| 22:37.16 | DeVol | MSRP? |
| 22:37.21 | axelm3 | that would put it at about 500 or more here in my country (argentina) |
| 22:37.26 | DeVol | and where do they ship from ? :0 |
| 22:37.31 | axelm3 | manuf sugg retail price |
| 22:37.32 | LuitvD | taiwan? |
| 22:37.33 | buz | taiwan likely |
| 22:37.52 | buz | but phones are light |
| 22:37.58 | DeVol | so its actually a company building this hardware? |
| 22:37.58 | LuitvD | taiwan/china/japan shipping isn't that expensive ... |
| 22:37.59 | buz | shipping should not be that bad |
| 22:38.11 | axelm3 | taxes here are the prob |
| 22:38.18 | LuitvD | DeVol: it's First International Computer Inc. |
| 22:38.19 | buz | it highly depends on what you're shipping how fast |
| 22:38.28 | LuitvD | DeVol: shortly FIC Inc. |
| 22:38.31 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 22:38.34 | buz | i've seen laptop sized packages cost 200$ |
| 22:38.45 | LuitvD | from taiwan? |
| 22:38.50 | DeVol | So FIC started up the OpenMoko software project too then ? |
| 22:38.51 | buz | hongkong |
| 22:38.56 | buz | broadly similar |
| 22:39.04 | buz | but that was 48h guaranteed |
| 22:39.20 | LuitvD | i've had 2kg shipping from HK for 10 dollars |
| 22:39.26 | LuitvD | :) |
| 22:39.33 | LuitvD | that was 4 weeks guaranteed :P |
| 22:39.37 | DeVol | pitty i'm more of a Qt than a Gnome fan :( |
| 22:39.45 | buz | guaranteed to take AT LEAST 4 weeks |
| 22:39.54 | LuitvD | nope |
| 22:39.58 | DeVol | my gp2x costed an additional 50euros in taxes |
| 22:40.03 | DeVol | also from hk |
| 22:40.21 | DeVol | to belgium that is |
| 22:40.24 | buz | well you can put qt on neo no problem there |
| 22:42.04 | buz | even real qt, not just qtopia |
| 22:42.29 | axelm3 | too bad gprs is a rip off in my country, otherwise the business oportunities are incredible |
| 22:42.34 | buz | IF iget a neo, my quest will be to run kde on it |
| 22:43.24 | LuitvD | mine will be to run both moko and opie/gpe (one of those two) |
| 22:43.38 | LuitvD | (so two graphic environments installed) |
| 22:43.41 | buz | that should be comparably simple |
| 22:43.43 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 22:43.50 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 22:43.58 | LuitvD | I somewhat liked opie on my Palm PDA |
| 22:44.00 | buz | kde might run into resource constraints |
| 22:44.05 | LuitvD | (320x320 screen) |
| 22:46.45 | axelm3 | counter :) |
| 22:47.15 | LuitvD | axelm3: please, /msg aloril counter |
| 22:47.19 | LuitvD | :P |
| 22:48.36 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 22:50.07 | buz | think about it, amarok on a phone |
| 22:50.42 | LuitvD | dream on :P |
| 22:50.43 | Clint | too many buttons and tabs |
| 22:51.06 | SpeedEvil | The MP3 decoder is interesting. |
| 22:51.17 | buz | by far best musc player ever |
| 22:51.21 | axelm3 | i can think of at least 6 commercial applications that I could develop on this :) |
| 22:51.23 | DeVol | yeh i was just wondering, does it have audio out / in ? |
| 22:51.27 | SpeedEvil | If the CPU can without causing audio clicks be switched from slow to fast mode, and back. |
| 22:51.46 | axelm3 | does everything have to be released GPL? |
| 22:51.46 | buz | DeVol: yes |
| 22:51.48 | DesktopMa | that shouldn't be a problem |
| 22:51.49 | SpeedEvil | Then it makes much more sense to decode in fast mode to a large buffer, and squirt it out in slow mode. |
| 22:51.52 | DesktopMa | you'd buffer a small part anyway |
| 22:51.58 | cjb | axelm3: well, free software of some sort. |
| 22:52.02 | SpeedEvil | I mean several meg of output. |
| 22:52.13 | DesktopMa | it would probably make sense to decode all of it even |
| 22:52.13 | axelm3 | i mean, if i develop an app on this platform, can it be closed source? |
| 22:52.18 | buz | basically whole free ram |
| 22:52.20 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 22:52.20 | SpeedEvil | axelm3: syre. |
| 22:52.21 | Harlekin | cjb: actually it does not |
| 22:52.23 | buz | axelm3: yes |
| 22:52.31 | Harlekin | cjb: afair all libs are lgpl |
| 22:52.52 | buz | which is why it isnt qtopia in the fist place |
| 22:53.29 | Harlekin | buz: you can develop closed source stuff for qtopia, you just have to buy teh comercial version |
| 22:53.36 | SpeedEvil | Slow mode/active fast 1/3 of the time takes around 150mW, just going idle only gets you to 250mW. |
| 22:53.39 | buz | which is $$$$ |
| 22:53.42 | Harlekin | yes |
| 22:53.54 | cjb | axelm3: *on* the platform, it can be whatever you can persuade people to buy (although I don't know why you expect people buying an open-source phone to pay for software). *For* the platform, ie. part of the platform, must be free software. |
| 22:54.02 | Harlekin | actually I am puzzled what happens if you buy that license, but want to run hte app on the gpl version |
| 22:54.33 | cjb | Harlekin: what's puzzling about it? |
| 22:54.42 | cjb | the gpl applies to distribution, not use. |
| 22:54.55 | axelm3 | i'd pursuade them to buy the phone because of the endless list of open source apps that can complement my application |
| 22:54.57 | Harlekin | cjb: buz was talking about qtopia |
| 22:55.13 | cjb | Harlekin: I know.. |
| 22:55.41 | Harlekin | cjb: i guess you would need to build it static against comercial qtopia to run it on gpl qtopia |
| 22:56.31 | buz | i guess you have license for qtopia |
| 22:56.39 | buz | trolltech will hardly care |
| 22:57.08 | buz | would be stupid forcing people to link against the very same lib statically |
| 22:57.44 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (i=woglinde@e178090013.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:57.57 | Harlekin | law is not very bendable |
| 22:58.06 | buz | dual licensing is |
| 22:58.37 | buz | if you're the copyright holder (and trolltech obviously is) you can bend qtopia's license whatever way you are |
| 22:58.38 | buz | want |
| 22:58.41 | *** join/#openmoko Plouj (n=Plouj@dsl-207-112-70-4.tor.primus.ca) |
| 22:58.42 | Plouj | hi |
| 22:58.50 | Harlekin | and the commercial license states that it is ok to link runtime against a gpl one? |
| 22:58.59 | buz | dunno |
| 22:59.09 | buz | dont see why it should prevent it |
| 22:59.13 | Harlekin | and that does not violate the gpl? |
| 22:59.18 | Plouj | anyone making this for openmoko: http://www.yorku.ca/mack/CHI99a-f4.jpg ? |
| 22:59.20 | cjb | Harlekin: the license doesn't care about what yoy use, it cares about what you distribute. |
| 22:59.44 | Plouj | http://www.yorku.ca/mack/CHI99a.html |
| 22:59.45 | buz | the gpl doesnt apply when you have paid for the commercial license |
| 23:00.04 | axelm3 | what kind of keyboard is that? |
| 23:00.11 | Plouj | axelm3: a soft keyboard |
| 23:00.33 | buz | that looks really werd |
| 23:00.54 | Plouj | it's supposedly very quick to use for a single pointer input device |
| 23:00.57 | Plouj | read the page |
| 23:01.02 | buz | language specific keyboard suck |
| 23:01.25 | Plouj | buz: the point is that it's designed to be quick to use |
| 23:01.30 | buz | yes |
| 23:01.34 | Plouj | see how the most used keys are in the center |
| 23:01.34 | buz | but also only for english |
| 23:01.44 | DeVol | if i'm correct you just have to buy a per-developer-license if you want to distribute (sell) your qt-based software closed source |
| 23:01.55 | Plouj | buz: one could generate the most used letters for a different language and arrange the keys on the same keboard for that language |
| 23:02.06 | buz | DeVol: thats true for qt for sure, not sure about qtopia though |
| 23:02.08 | Plouj | just need a dictionary |
| 23:02.24 | buz | Plouj: so when i switch from german to english (which i do all the time) i need to use a nother keyboard= |
| 23:02.26 | buz | boy that sucks |
| 23:02.32 | DeVol | these licenses start from 1500$ orso |
| 23:03.11 | axelm3 | i guess i'll just have to get exxonmobil to pay those 1500 for me then ;) |
| 23:03.17 | DeVol | axelm3: exxonmobil is your employer? :) |
| 23:03.20 | Plouj | buz: well, it sure isn't a finished product. It's just a research project. |
| 23:03.30 | axelm3 | nope, my customer |
| 23:03.40 | LuitvD | lol |
| 23:03.54 | axelm3 | they have hundreds of technicians doing maintenance on the gasoline stations |
| 23:04.07 | axelm3 | a nice logistics app running on one of these phones would be fantastic |
| 23:04.12 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1090 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/lowlevel_foo.patch: Makefile change broke build dependency, oops :-( |
| 23:04.27 | Plouj | any idea if any Canadian carriers are gonna support/provide bundles with openmoko? |
| 23:04.32 | axelm3 | gps, manager signature, online gprs transmission to the coordination center |
| 23:04.54 | DeVol | axelm3; you work for tokheim? |
| 23:05.06 | axelm3 | you can connect a USB fingerprint scanner and get the manager to "lend" the finger no make it non-refutable |
| 23:05.19 | axelm3 | nope |
| 23:05.33 | DeVol | what company then? i work for tokheim btw ;) |
| 23:05.34 | axelm3 | used to work for one of the big guys in that market |
| 23:05.43 | axelm3 | used to for gvr |
| 23:05.53 | DeVol | and where are you ? |
| 23:05.56 | axelm3 | arg |
| 23:06.13 | axelm3 | and u? england? |
| 23:06.42 | buz | anyway |
| 23:06.42 | DeVol | belgium |
| 23:06.43 | buz | night |
| 23:06.51 | LuitvD | 'night baz |
| 23:07.02 | LuitvD | sweet dreams (not about the e2881 !! ( |
| 23:07.10 | buz | loool |
| 23:07.16 | buz | i dont want to wake up in a lake of drool |
| 23:07.27 | LuitvD | heheh |
| 23:07.34 | axelm3 | does this phone have a camera |
| 23:07.35 | axelm3 | ? |
| 23:07.47 | LuitvD | better then with a dry mouth |
| 23:07.58 | LuitvD | axelm3: what 'this phone' ? |
| 23:08.03 | axelm3 | neo1973 |
| 23:08.14 | LuitvD | nope |
| 23:15.23 | axelm3 | Devol: check pm please |
| 23:15.40 | DeVol | there is no |
| 23:16.18 | DeVol | someting wrong? |
| 23:16.33 | axelm3 | i dunno, i'm writing but apparently you arent receiveing |
| 23:17.13 | axelm3 | i have 2 register my nick |
| 23:17.18 | axelm3 | gime a sec |
| 23:18.19 | LuitvD | axelm3: /msg nickserv register <password> |
| 23:18.20 | LuitvD | ;) |
| 23:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
| 23:20.55 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@S01060040f41dad58.cg.shawcable.net) |
| 23:21.42 | *** join/#openmoko vetetix (n=vetetix@74.25-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 23:24.05 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 23:25.07 | LuitvD | hi CoreDump|home |
| 23:25.19 | CoreDump|home | counter |
| 23:25.19 | aloril | P0: 5 days 12:34:40 (-0.476 - 5.524 days); P1: 21.524 - 36.524; P2: 189.524 - 219.524 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (393) |
| 23:25.28 | CoreDump|home | any news on P0? |
| 23:25.34 | LuitvD | not really... |
| 23:25.42 | LuitvD | CoreDump|home: will you recieve one? |
| 23:26.15 | CoreDump|home | yep, I'm one of the lucky bastards =D |
| 23:26.15 | rwhitby | hey CoreDump|home |
| 23:26.17 | CoreDump|home | hi rwhitby |
| 23:26.23 | LuitvD | basterd :P I want one too |
| 23:26.27 | LuitvD | and an e2881 |
| 23:26.40 | CoreDump|home | hehe |
| 23:27.28 | LuitvD | nslu2? |
| 23:27.41 | LuitvD | that router? |
| 23:27.43 | CoreDump|home | rwhitby: I'm still not used to the 3 bazillion different images available for the slug |
| 23:28.09 | rwhitby | CoreDump|home: unslung, slugos, debian - only three really (and slugos has be and le flavours) |
| 23:28.31 | rwhitby | what can I say, it's a versatile little device :-) |
| 23:28.34 | LuitvD | damn, I really should get some sleep... |
| 23:28.46 | LuitvD | screaming headache |
| 23:28.49 | LuitvD | later all |
| 23:29.30 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.101.243.163) |
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| 23:40.34 | DeVol | anyone here ordered there neo already or is that not possible yet? |
| 23:41.45 | CoreDump|home | DeVol: the first free-for-all neos will be available for purchase at the end of march |
| 23:41.55 | CoreDump|home | (~350$) |
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| 23:42.59 | DesktopMa | cool |
| 23:44.07 | DeVol | yeh i know but i was just wondering if you can order them already |
| 23:44.24 | CoreDump|home | you can't :\ |
| 23:44.47 | DeVol | some here already have a version i guess? |
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| 23:48.39 | CoreDump|home | very few have one already. The core devs got theirs only very recently, or so I heard =) |
| 23:49.05 | CoreDump|home | the first non-core developers will get their neo in 5 to 20 days |
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