00:01.57 | stefan_schmidt | Magon: You mean http -> https, right? |
00:02.13 | Magon | no ..all https -> http |
00:02.13 | stefan_schmidt | Magon: it's only neede for svn.o-hand.com/repos/dates/branches/private |
00:02.25 | Magon | since i have no access to https svn |
00:02.32 | Magon | but this one is abnormal |
00:02.53 | stefan_schmidt | ah, you changed it in the past |
00:03.08 | Magon | yes |
00:03.33 | Magon | No such file or directory: '/opt/openembedded/openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates/./compile-fix.patch' |
00:03.36 | Magon | ?? |
00:04.18 | stefan_schmidt | iirc the patch was removed |
00:04.40 | Magon | ok..co i need to remove it from aplaying |
00:04.49 | stefan_schmidt | yes |
00:05.15 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.102.170) |
00:05.21 | stefan_schmidt | But it should be fixed in the same commit while removing the patch |
00:05.36 | Magon | i have head..i hope |
00:05.42 | stefan_schmidt | Perhaps some caching? |
00:05.51 | *** part/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
00:05.58 | stefan_schmidt | You can try to bitbake -c clean |
00:06.25 | Magon | ok |
00:08.48 | *** join/#openmoko dirak1 (n=dirakx@69.79.145.81) |
00:10.30 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1046 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/panel-plugins/openmoko-panel-battery/ (3 files in 2 dirs): openmoko-panel-battery: first version working w/ matchbox-panel-2 |
00:11.07 | robtaylor | ooh, CIA for openmoko |
00:11.08 | robtaylor | nice |
00:11.15 | LuitvD | lol |
00:12.16 | Eleaf | but seriously.. |
00:12.19 | Eleaf | what is this moko project? |
00:12.35 | LuitvD | Eleaf: read openmoko.org ;) |
00:12.51 | Eleaf | there isn't much info there LuitvD |
00:12.54 | Eleaf | that's why I came here. |
00:13.04 | Eleaf | It's just like... get ready for an open phone...yay. |
00:13.05 | LuitvD | Eleaf: summary: It's a linux distro for mobile phones, |
00:13.19 | Eleaf | and what is the status? Support? |
00:13.28 | LuitvD | Eleaf: and the first open mobile phone will be the FIC Neo 1973 |
00:13.32 | Eleaf | It would be cool if it ran on my 15 year old cell phone. |
00:13.47 | Eleaf | hmm |
00:14.05 | LuitvD | which will be tested for a while now (the hardware has just been 'finished', and will be tested from now on) |
00:14.11 | LuitvD | and the software is Openmoko :) |
00:14.15 | stefan_schmidt | Eleaf: No chance. It uses linux. Means you need linux support for your phone. |
00:14.35 | Eleaf | hmm |
00:14.46 | Eleaf | so almost any new phone? |
00:14.56 | Eleaf | Or is it even then still restricted to a few phones. |
00:15.00 | stefan_schmidt | Eleaf: ...which has a linux port. |
00:15.13 | Eleaf | uhh |
00:15.21 | Eleaf | I have no idea which those are ;) |
00:16.17 | stefan_schmidt | People working on support for some motorola and HTC smartphones. |
00:16.33 | LuitvD | Eleaf: the Neo1973 ('the' openmoko phone for now) is quite a cool device... take a look at the specs: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Hardware |
00:17.05 | Eleaf | LuitvD, so does openmoko work with anything yet? |
00:17.20 | LuitvD | Eleaf: yes, that device |
00:17.33 | Eleaf | oh, but how well? |
00:17.36 | Eleaf | Stable? |
00:17.38 | LuitvD | though, openmoko is still in a testing and development phase |
00:17.43 | Eleaf | ah yes |
00:17.47 | LuitvD | far from stable I guess... |
00:18.01 | Eleaf | That looks like a cool phone, but quite expensive. |
00:18.12 | LuitvD | Eleaf: look at the alternatives... |
00:18.31 | LuitvD | the Greenphone is even more expensive (about $800 IIRC) |
00:18.35 | Eleaf | I'm not seeing it |
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00:18.57 | Eleaf | so then how do you connect with a service provider LuitvD ? |
00:19.20 | LuitvD | Eleaf: just insert a SIM card, and the GSM daemon will connect |
00:19.27 | LuitvD | as usual |
00:19.32 | Eleaf | hmm |
00:19.37 | LuitvD | (just like on most smartphones) |
00:19.48 | Eleaf | That's pretty cool |
00:20.10 | LuitvD | that's maybe even the most uncool part :P |
00:20.14 | SuN | Get subscription from online store -> get them to cashback the sum the provider pays so you can normally get a free phone -> not so expensive. |
00:20.22 | rwhitby | Eleaf: have you read wiki.openmoko.org yet? |
00:20.39 | rwhitby | every single question you have asked so far is answered there. |
00:20.43 | Eleaf | I was there only quickly |
00:20.49 | rwhitby | well, be there slowly :-) |
00:20.52 | Eleaf | it's interface scared me off ;) |
00:21.08 | LuitvD | Eleaf: then use the search ;) I bet you know how to use that |
00:21.12 | Eleaf | I must have gone to the mailing list page. |
00:21.21 | Eleaf | I thought I went to the wiki page ;) that's why it scared me. |
00:21.24 | rwhitby | Eleaf: asking questions here that are answered in the wiki will only get people irritated at you. |
00:21.43 | Eleaf | well I didn't know there was a wiki page. |
00:21.53 | Eleaf | Because when I tried to go to it, it just looked like a squeeze page. |
00:22.10 | Eleaf | it's more fun talking to people |
00:22.11 | LuitvD | must be lists.openmoko.org then :P |
00:22.20 | Eleaf | yea |
00:22.33 | Eleaf | err, maybe not |
00:22.47 | rwhitby | Eleaf: so you think everyone of the thousands of new people finding out about openmoko should come here and ask the same FAQ questions every time? |
00:22.58 | LuitvD | :P |
00:23.12 | LuitvD | Eleaf: start there >> wiki.openmoko.org |
00:23.22 | Eleaf | LuitvD, I have been |
00:23.31 | Eleaf | rwhitby, maybe |
00:24.37 | LuitvD | Eleaf: I guess that if everybody who wanted to know something about the project that has already been documented and still asks on the IRC channel, we won't have any time left to discuss some more serious things about this project |
00:24.56 | Eleaf | then just link to the wiki page |
00:25.10 | LuitvD | Eleaf: we do... look at the channel topic ;) |
00:25.32 | Eleaf | It just says wiki, but not a link.. |
00:25.39 | rwhitby | sigh |
00:25.45 | Eleaf | Most people don't look at long topics anyways, but I'm not arguing anything here. |
00:26.03 | natetrue | lots of clients truncate long topics |
00:26.14 | natetrue | ...but this channel's topic is by far the shortest i've seen lately |
00:26.43 | rwhitby | oh good, Harald just confirmed they have a full time developer working on qemu to get an emulator for the neo |
00:26.45 | Eleaf | okay.. |
00:26.45 | LuitvD | natetrue: yeah... |
00:26.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1047 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410-nand.patch: add nand pagesize definition |
00:27.08 | Eleaf | but there isn't a link to the wiki... doesn't matter. |
00:27.22 | LuitvD | rwhitby: i heard jannu had it running already :) |
00:27.51 | Eleaf | that's pretty darn cool though |
00:28.29 | rwhitby | LuitvD: did you get the mokomakefile build to complete? |
00:28.40 | LuitvD | not me... |
00:28.51 | LuitvD | my desktop kernel was too unstable somehow :P |
00:29.02 | LuitvD | right now I'm running a fresh Ubuntu installation |
00:29.24 | LuitvD | rwhitby: but I guess jannu did complete the mokomakefile, for qemuarm ... |
00:30.00 | LuitvD | rwhitby: he told me he'd upload it soon... the images... |
00:30.18 | LuitvD | rwhitby: and I guess he'll announce it on one of the lists |
00:30.30 | LuitvD | rwhitby: not sure which |
00:32.38 | rwhitby | LaF0rge: any possibility of getting svn://svn.projects.openmoko.org to accept connections? and the viewcvs there to show the project repos? |
00:33.20 | LuitvD | hmm, does anybody know the hardware diffrences between p0 and p1 devices? |
00:33.27 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1048 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/applications/openmoko-mainmenu/ (configure.ac src/Makefile.am src/mokodesktop.h): openmoko-mainmenu: make it build. See #184 and please ACT ASAP! |
00:33.46 | rwhitby | night mickey|zzZZzz |
00:33.50 | mickey|zzZZzz | g'night |
00:34.12 | rwhitby | LuitvD: I doubt there would be any differences, given the short time-frame between p0 and p1. |
00:34.17 | LuitvD | aargh, still hate it that I can't apply for google SoC |
00:34.40 | LuitvD | rwhitby: a month time is short? how many devices will be produced? :S |
00:35.35 | rwhitby | a month time is very short to change a production line setup and test a new hardware revision and change the software to match |
00:35.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03mickey * r1049 10/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-apps/openmoko-mainmenu_svn.bb: oe/openmoko-apps: openmoko-mainmenu depends on libmatchbox. See #184 |
00:36.19 | LuitvD | mickey|zzZZzz: updating in your sleep? :P |
00:37.29 | rwhitby | some people say prayers, some people commit their day's work ... |
00:37.37 | LuitvD | lol |
00:37.52 | LuitvD | I prefer the second one... |
00:42.26 | *** part/#openmoko Eleaf (n=ethan@geek-124.ras-2.gill.wy.vcn.com) |
00:44.54 | LuitvD | why on earth isn't the flash rom directly connected to IO_3v3? :S |
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01:00.11 | LuitvD | bye |
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01:07.56 | jebba | ok. i got openmoko qemuarm emulation going with mouse (more or less) and 480x640 video... r1004 |
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01:13.35 | accumulator | thanks for r1049 |
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01:37.22 | jebba | ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/developers/jebba/openmoko/qemu-r1004 <-- qemu images |
01:38.00 | fluffs | goodnight all |
01:42.34 | maydaytx | cool, jebba |
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01:48.08 | fabs | hi all |
01:49.01 | fabs | I am just starting linux dev, how can I get the FIC Neo1973 |
01:49.21 | jebba | fabs, see /topic |
01:49.57 | fabs | jebba: ops, sorry |
01:50.10 | fabs | can u direct me to the right place? |
01:50.26 | orospakr | openmoko.org, I think. ;) |
01:50.34 | SpeedEvil | $350, late march. |
01:50.57 | fabs | worldwide? |
01:51.01 | jaebird | jebba: is X supposed to start with your images? |
01:51.04 | SpeedEvil | yes |
01:51.06 | SpeedEvil | to anyone |
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01:51.16 | fabs | orospakr: thanks, been there and read the wiki ;) |
01:51.29 | fabs | SpeedEvil: superb, thanks |
01:51.43 | fabs | openmoko is the distro used isn't it? |
01:52.41 | fabs | I mean, is it based on some other existing stuff, say Debian or else? |
01:52.51 | pjz | orospakr: I think the only difference will be software, not hardware |
01:53.44 | orospakr | pjz: I asked that question before, and someone thought the hardware would be different. |
01:53.45 | orospakr | but they may not have actually known anything... |
01:55.35 | jebba | jaebird, what do you mean "with your images"? It's basically matchbox, with rxvt starting first. |
01:55.59 | jaebird | jebba: ok X started...I had to delete the .X0* file in the tmp dir...it is rotated 90 degrees |
01:56.17 | jebba | ah, ya. It /is/ rotated. And so is my LCD next to me. |
01:56.25 | jaebird | :) |
01:56.26 | jebba | see: /etc/X11/Xserver |
01:57.12 | jaebird | no mouse cursor...right? |
01:58.43 | loufoque | jebba: could you write a tutorial explaining how to emulate the neo1973 ? |
01:58.46 | jbnet | orospakr: I have the same problem :(... I figure I'll wait a couple weeks to see if there are any major problems and grab the Phase 1 version |
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02:00.22 | jebba | jaebird, jbnet ya, you can't see it, but it's there. I updated the README slightly. |
02:00.39 | jebba | i'm more interested in getting a current image built, then will do more of a writeup. |
02:00.51 | orospakr | jebba: hm, I just tried out your qemu images, and same here, no X. |
02:00.56 | jebba | you can see the cursor under rxvt, for example. |
02:01.01 | jaebird | jebba: thanks for making this |
02:01.06 | orospakr | yeah, thanks. :) |
02:01.21 | jaebird | orospakr: go delete the /tmp/.X0* file |
02:01.35 | jebba | ah, lemme fix that then ;) |
02:01.44 | orospakr | jaebird: done. how do I restart X? |
02:02.08 | jaebird | I restarted my qemu since `reboot` did not work :) |
02:02.24 | jaebird | startx also did not work for me |
02:02.25 | orospakr | `sync` && x button in the corner ;) |
02:02.51 | jaebird | :) |
02:03.08 | orospakr | I wonder what kind of ARM box qemu is emulating. |
02:03.18 | orospakr | it's not like there's a standard or anything. |
02:04.02 | *** part/#openmoko fabs (n=fabs@host86-131-216-96.range86-131.btcentralplus.com) |
02:04.07 | orospakr | well, X is running, and I have a sideways terminal. |
02:04.39 | orospakr | ooh, and there's the desktop. |
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02:06.29 | toxic_ | hi, quick question, is it possible using ARM ASM in openmoko |
02:06.42 | orospakr | I'd imagine so. |
02:06.48 | orospakr | do you mean regular gcc inline asm? |
02:07.28 | toxic_ | orospakr: no, pure asm files |
02:07.39 | toxic_ | maybe compiled using gas or something like that |
02:07.47 | orospakr | yeah, I'm sure you can. |
02:07.52 | orospakr | but that's all I know. |
02:08.14 | toxic_ | orospakr: thanks anyway |
02:08.20 | orospakr | sorry. |
02:08.23 | jebba | <PROTECTED> |
02:08.34 | jebba | to kill X you ctrl-alt-del :) |
02:08.57 | orospakr | jebba: I gather you have to do some incantation at the qemu monitor to do ctrl-alt-del. ;) |
02:08.59 | toxic_ | orospakr: it's fine - another thing, is gcc on the device or there is the need of cross compilation? |
02:09.14 | orospakr | I'd imagine the latter. |
02:09.17 | orospakr | toolchains are huge. |
02:09.53 | jebba | orospakr, if qemu has focus, it grabs it. Just make sure you're in the window ;) |
02:10.04 | orospakr | right. :D |
02:10.19 | toxic_ | orospakr: that's cool, thanks. |
02:11.08 | jebba | note this image is from an older revision, not the current svn... |
02:18.39 | jebba | jaebird, i put one up there that shouldn't have a lockfile in it already ;) |
02:18.52 | jaebird | ok...thanks |
02:20.35 | jaebird | jebba: no vi? |
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02:21.19 | jebba | jaebird, ya, it has vi. no vim tho |
02:21.37 | jaebird | weird version tho.. |
02:21.49 | jebba | i think it's the busybox version |
02:22.21 | jaebird | looking for @270 |
02:23.38 | jebba | in /etc/X11/Xserver under ARM section |
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02:32.49 | rwhitby | jebba: do you want to use the latest MokoMakefile to build the latest image? |
02:35.19 | jebba | rwhitby, ha. i just started it manually, but if you have a Makefile I'll do it :) |
02:36.07 | jebba | rwhitby, is it up anywhere? I checked earlier @ projects and i don't see it on your personal site. |
02:36.09 | rwhitby | jebba: what's your projects.openmoko.org username? |
02:36.19 | jebba | uh, jebba if I got one ;) |
02:36.32 | rwhitby | (anon svn isn't working there yet, so I'll make you a mokomakefile dev) |
02:37.21 | jebba | ok, gimme a minute to get an acct |
02:38.58 | rwhitby | added you |
02:39.21 | rwhitby | upload your ssh key, and checkout mokomakefile trunk with svn+ssh (it might take an hour for your ssh key to be recognised) |
02:44.14 | jebba | ok, can you just mail it to me or something in the interim so i can get the build started? moe@blagblagblag.org |
02:47.35 | loufoque | what does projects.openmoko.org use CVS and not SVN like openmoko itself? |
02:47.38 | jebba | my key is up there...awaiting cron.... /me goes to food |
02:47.39 | loufoque | why* |
02:47.55 | jebba | it is using svn (perhaps both) |
02:56.45 | rwhitby | loufoque: it can use both - I'm using svn |
02:57.14 | rwhitby | jebba: the new Makefile gets the patches from there, so it's easier just to wait |
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03:14.03 | PasqualeBF_ | good evening all. |
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03:36.59 | xkr47 | Elrond, I think adding categories could maybe be flagged as "minor edit".. :) |
03:37.56 | natetrue | whoa mokomakefile is still going |
03:37.59 | natetrue | i'd forgotten about it! |
03:39.26 | xkr47 | that's linux! |
04:01.12 | jebba | rwhitby, Checked out revision 8 |
04:01.55 | rwhitby | jebba: give that one a go - I tested it on 1041, but mickey|zzZZzz has checked in some more stuff since then and I haven't done a new build yet. |
04:02.49 | rwhitby | jebba: Feel free to check in any fixes required to get it to build latest. |
04:07.01 | aloril | nice, wifi? was tripped automatically twice and both in right context |
04:08.02 | aloril | rwhitby: thanks for mokomakefile, finished now here (it fixed some problems automatically, wiki had some, I fixed rest) |
04:08.29 | rwhitby | aloril: great. |
04:09.13 | aloril | arm-linux-gcc: /usr/local/src/htmlpp: No such file or directory |
04:09.26 | aloril | for rxvt-unicode-7.9-r0 |
04:09.57 | aloril | (fixed by editing Makefile and removing last part of ...aging/arm-linux/lib -lXpm -lX11 /usr/local/src/htmlpp ) |
04:09.57 | jebba | aloril, i didn't have a problem with rxvt but i do remember someone mentioning issues with it.... |
04:12.05 | aloril | config.log had this: PERLLIB='/usr/local/src/htmlpp' |
04:16.15 | aloril | last 2 nick count records: 261 2007-02-16; 263 2007-02-19 |
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04:35.24 | jebba | rwhitby, build 200702200115: completed |
04:35.47 | rwhitby | that was quick |
04:35.59 | rwhitby | what rebuilt? |
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04:36.49 | rwhitby | (note that mokomakefile currently removes all the SRCDATE="now" stuff to stop everything rebuilding every time, but that might cause some things not to rebuild if the moko folks have not updated PRs. |
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04:45.52 | jebba | rwhitby, openmoko-devel-image-qemuarm-20070220041540.rootfs.* Not much directly rebuilt with the makefile (a few openmoko-*) as I had been running a `bitbake openmoko-devel-image` while waiting for makefile svn (and I had already resync'd to oe/om). |
04:46.12 | rwhitby | nod |
04:46.22 | jebba | ya, I saw that patch. I didn't get why it was there (SRCDATE), but now it make sense. Seems like that may come bite us sometime though. |
04:47.11 | rwhitby | yeah, I'm not sure how to handle that yet. We definitely don't want to rebuild everything every time, but we do want have a way to force the rebuild of all that stuff that they set to "now" |
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05:08.57 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1050 10/ (6 files in 2 dirs): Experimental splash screen support. |
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05:31.53 | jebba | ok newer image, ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/blag/developers/jebba/openmoko/qemu-r1049/ |
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06:01.08 | dottedmag | Heh. Where do I put bugs related to the openmoko sites? bugzilla does not seem to contain 'infrastructure' project or component. |
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06:13.17 | LetoTo | jebba: cool. |
06:13.24 | LetoTo | except for the sideways display :) |
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06:52.22 | rwhitby | jebba: what version of qemu are you using? |
06:52.33 | rwhitby | (and is there a pre-packaged deb for debian etch?) |
07:01.06 | jebba | I am currently running 0.9.0 (just released a couple weeks ago) on my "fc6" laptop. The debian-etch buildbox has qemu 0.8.2 (apt-get install qemu...), which I believe is fine for this. |
07:01.33 | jebba | rwhitby |
07:01.53 | rwhitby | sweet, installing that now |
07:06.56 | dottedmag | rwhitby: 0.9 is in debian experimental |
07:11.55 | dirakx | <PROTECTED> |
07:12.27 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03rwhitby * r9 10mokomakefile/trunk/patches/openmoko-HEAD/openmoko-mainmenu.patch: Refreshed the openmoko-mainmenu patch - it still requires the -lmb: addition |
07:14.14 | aloril | ah, "-M versatilepb" was that magic missing thing .. |
07:18.32 | rwhitby | jebba: know any keybindings to make up for the lack of a visible mouse? |
07:21.19 | rwhitby | Aha - Alt-F4 exits an app. |
07:24.22 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
07:24.45 | rwhitby | hey koen |
07:26.22 | rwhitby | Paavo: spill ... |
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07:27.26 | Paavo | Didn't have the chance to try any of the software, but the device felt nice in your hand. Sturdy. Not too big. |
07:27.31 | tigert | morng |
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07:29.48 | glm2k | one question i have is ... what's with the "handle" like thingie at the bottom? |
07:29.59 | tigert | the loop? |
07:30.04 | glm2k | you don't need a loop that big do you? |
07:30.17 | tigert | ever seen asian people with cellphones? |
07:30.22 | tigert | neck strap goes there :) |
07:30.24 | glm2k | unless there's an antenna there i dunno about ... |
07:30.27 | glm2k | aahh |
07:30.28 | glm2k | lol |
07:30.31 | tigert | there is an antenna too |
07:30.31 | glm2k | figures |
07:30.44 | glm2k | looks sturdy enough to hang oneself from |
07:31.07 | glm2k | ...bad joke but the japs seem the have that demographic cornered ... |
07:31.28 | tigert | those phone straps are coming.. |
07:31.35 | tigert | we have the cellphone jewelry now too |
07:31.39 | glm2k | wow |
07:31.40 | tigert | that was hot in 1999 |
07:31.42 | tigert | in korea |
07:31.54 | tigert | we totally follow asia in this crap |
07:31.55 | glm2k | um, do we have any female hackers here to try them on? ;) |
07:32.04 | glm2k | cuz i'm not ... :D |
07:32.39 | tigert | I am sure there are "dude" versions too |
07:32.39 | glm2k | well, it's lost on me |
07:32.59 | glm2k | even while i was working in asia, i never went for eyecandy...if it fit in my pocket it's the model i bought |
07:33.27 | tigert | a friend lives on tokyo |
07:33.33 | tigert | he has ~2 hour commute to work |
07:33.43 | tigert | the cellphone is his communication device |
07:33.49 | tigert | he does mail etc there on the train |
07:33.52 | tigert | chat etcetera |
07:33.59 | tigert | you dont keep your phone much in your pocket :) |
07:34.07 | glm2k | hehe, agreed |
07:34.20 | tigert | and thus the neck strap does make a lot of sense in that kind of situation |
07:34.27 | tigert | its there when you need it |
07:36.19 | glm2k | can't wait for march |
07:36.34 | CM | It's fun to see 50 year old business men in japan take out their phone from the suit pockets and it has a big pile of hello kitty and furry trolls and stuff hanging from it :) |
07:36.40 | tigert | yep |
07:36.51 | tigert | that stuff is not just for girls there |
07:36.54 | glm2k | haven't been this excited since buying an ipaq years ago...just to run linux on |
07:37.00 | tigert | glm2k: :) |
07:37.05 | tigert | the device is cute |
07:37.08 | glm2k | i saw |
07:37.09 | Harlekin23 | hehe |
07:37.20 | glm2k | anyone with a black/silver graphic? |
07:37.23 | Harlekin23 | japanese girly style |
07:37.26 | glm2k | for comparison? |
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07:46.15 | koen | hey rwhitby |
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07:50.55 | aloril | CM: its nice that people have started to put comment by default too (Buying_Interest_List) |
07:51.25 | CM | aloril: Yes, nice to know what people are interested in doing :) |
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08:11.07 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1051 10/developers/werner/splash/imghs.pl: Raw framebuffer image converter, with HWSWP enabled |
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08:52.56 | Elrond | Is the wiki a bit slowish just now? |
08:53.25 | Elrond | (specifically the "recent changes" page) |
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08:56.22 | koen | Elrond: it seems that way |
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09:01.47 | koen | I wonder if the fix designers realize that pixels are atomic |
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09:05.25 | koen | 10.329 is not 10 1/3 pixels, but a coordinate! |
09:05.42 | Harlekin | yeah, since a good gui is not pixel based |
09:05.48 | Harlekin | but point based |
09:06.47 | Kaco | and rendered with subpixel accuracy? |
09:07.03 | Harlekin | and the question is, to which pixel does 10.329 map |
09:07.10 | rwhitby | (X.Y, WxH) |
09:07.10 | Harlekin | which is depending on the dpi |
09:07.13 | Harlekin | and res |
09:07.42 | Harlekin | at least a modern UI _should_ be that way |
09:08.50 | Harlekin | but in this image |
09:08.55 | Harlekin | 10.329 might mean |
09:08.58 | Harlekin | x 10 y 329 |
09:09.20 | Harlekin | or it pretty sure does |
09:09.36 | Harlekin | but still might be point based, not pixel based |
09:09.37 | Harlekin | .-) |
09:09.43 | Harlekin | but I doubt that |
09:10.13 | Harlekin | :-) |
09:10.28 | Harlekin | european? |
09:11.13 | Harlekin | anyway, how far is gtk+ regarding resolution independence? |
09:13.52 | Kaco | anyway yes it might be european |
09:14.03 | Kaco | hmm but wait it's not :) |
09:14.17 | Kaco | '.' is being used as thousands separator |
09:14.25 | Kaco | like 10.000,00 |
09:14.28 | Kaco | that is 10 thousand |
09:14.40 | Kaco | coordinates are always with ',' |
09:14.53 | Harlekin | i ment if koen is |
09:15.00 | Kaco | lol |
09:15.04 | Kaco | no idea, but i am :) |
09:15.09 | Harlekin | since in europe you would use , or ; |
09:15.13 | Kaco | yeah |
09:15.38 | Harlekin | isn't the mockup designer in asia? |
09:15.41 | Harlekin | chinese? |
09:15.49 | Kaco | taiwanese? |
09:16.03 | Harlekin | if you talk to a chinese there is no difference |
09:16.05 | Harlekin | *g* |
09:16.10 | Kaco | actually no |
09:16.14 | Kaco | i spent one year in asia |
09:16.23 | Kaco | they're all different .. be it korean, japanese, chinese, vietnames |
09:16.26 | Harlekin | that was a "political" remark |
09:16.29 | Kaco | haha |
09:16.29 | Kaco | ok |
09:17.12 | Harlekin | since the "peoples republic" of china does not accept Taiwan as a state |
09:17.23 | Kaco | yeah damn those communists :-D |
09:17.30 | Kaco | same for hong kong |
09:17.39 | Harlekin | those with the wildest capitalism you can imagine |
09:17.42 | Harlekin | :-) |
09:18.05 | Kaco | hehe the strangest kind of communists |
09:18.10 | Kaco | money changed them ;-) |
09:18.30 | Kaco | but still better than those real in north korea |
09:20.20 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
09:22.31 | koen | Harlekin: shall we normalize the coords and take a bet how long it takes for the designers figure it out? |
09:22.54 | eugene | Kaco: there are some chinese in this channel, i.e. me :) |
09:23.43 | Kaco | eugene, but you're not in government right? :) |
09:23.52 | eugene | Kaco: lol :) |
09:23.56 | Kaco | eugene, anyway I know what I am speaking about... |
09:24.07 | Kaco | eugene, we were controlled by russians and had communism till 1989 |
09:24.16 | Kaco | eugene, then we kicked them out :) |
09:24.20 | eugene | hehe |
09:24.39 | Kaco | maybe you heard of slovakia (or czechoslovakia) in europe |
09:24.45 | eugene | yes |
09:24.49 | Kaco | ok |
09:25.13 | Kaco | well i guess it's not that bad in china, except so called freespeech |
09:25.23 | eugene | hehe, true, very true. |
09:25.26 | Kaco | :) |
09:25.29 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin23 (n=Harlekin@p5496A252.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
09:25.49 | Harlekin23 | ups, my ISP just upgraded my dsl connection |
09:26.00 | Kaco | Harlekin23, increased speed? :) |
09:26.13 | Harlekin | yes |
09:26.28 | Harlekin | now 17690/1183 |
09:26.39 | Kaco | wtf? :) |
09:26.40 | Kaco | not bad |
09:26.45 | Kaco | i'm on 1024/256 |
09:26.52 | eugene | ... |
09:26.57 | XorA | only 512/224 here |
09:27.00 | XorA | :-( |
09:27.07 | eugene | i'm only 512/128 |
09:27.09 | eugene | ... |
09:27.10 | Kaco | hmm max with DSL here is probably 2048 |
09:27.18 | koen | 1M/128 iirc here |
09:27.26 | Kaco | when i was in korea i was on 70000/15000 |
09:27.30 | Kaco | at home :) |
09:27.49 | Kaco | and it was really cheap ... i wish i can get it here |
09:27.58 | Harlekin | especially 1 mbit upload is nice for video conferencing |
09:28.09 | Kaco | yeah |
09:28.17 | Kaco | 256 upload sometimes sucks even for Skype |
09:29.43 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
09:29.52 | LuitvD | hello there |
09:29.55 | Psi | Kaco, was that 70mbit/15mbit? |
09:30.47 | LuitvD | :o |
09:30.51 | LuitvD | koen: how? |
09:31.08 | koen | LuitvD: by living on campus |
09:31.18 | LuitvD | ah, nice :) |
09:31.38 | LuitvD | koen: a friend of mine has 10M/10M at home :) |
09:31.43 | Kaco | Psi, yes :) |
09:31.45 | Psi | i just upgraded to 4.6mbit/700kbit from 1mbit/256kbit |
09:32.17 | Kaco | Psi, every apartment there had such connection ... in fact this was minimal available |
09:32.33 | Psi | heh |
09:33.06 | Kaco | for $10/mo |
09:33.22 | Psi | nice |
09:33.24 | Kaco | usually it was part of rent |
09:33.51 | Kaco | well south korea is the most wired country in the world ... around 70% of people have broadband at home |
09:34.28 | Kaco | i'm wondering if Neo1973 will work there, since they're not using GSM |
09:34.43 | Kaco | but CDMA, but that is what they've got in US too right? |
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09:34.54 | Kaco | is Neo GSM/CDMA? |
09:35.00 | mjr | neo1973 is gsm-only |
09:35.05 | Kaco | so no US? |
09:35.38 | Kaco | only europe/asia? |
09:35.38 | mjr | US has two large GSM providers plus a load of smaller ones, from what I've heard |
09:35.39 | Kaco | ah ok |
09:36.02 | mjr | AT&T / Cingular and T-mobile were the names, I think |
09:36.13 | Kaco | hm Cingular ... so iPhone is GSM too? :) |
09:36.14 | LuitvD | T-mobile i'm certain about :P |
09:36.23 | Kaco | yes t-mobile is GSM, even in my country |
09:36.51 | Harlekin | Kaco: iPhone is GSM (us version |
09:36.53 | Harlekin | ) |
09:37.01 | LuitvD | Kaco: in all of europe T-Mobile is GSM (+ 3G in some places) |
09:37.13 | mjr | so then you can use it in their network; no fancy 3G, but the first neo doesn't do 3G anyway |
09:37.30 | Harlekin | who is their |
09:37.36 | LuitvD | all network carriers in the netherlands do GSM and GPRS :) |
09:37.36 | Kaco | ok |
09:37.38 | mjr | T-Mobile, apparently |
09:37.42 | Harlekin | 3g is not that wide spread in the US |
09:37.53 | Kaco | we've got 3G here |
09:37.59 | LuitvD | Kaco: where? |
09:38.03 | Kaco | and even that faster .... was it HDSPA? HDSCA? |
09:38.05 | Kaco | Slovakia |
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09:38.12 | LuitvD | NL has about 50% coverage of HSDPA |
09:38.13 | Harlekin | Kaco: 2.5G |
09:38.29 | LuitvD | Harlekin: no, 3,5G |
09:38.33 | Kaco | :-D |
09:38.35 | LuitvD | hsdpa is 3,5G |
09:38.35 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
09:38.43 | Harlekin | LuitvD: ups. yes |
09:38.44 | Kaco | well i'm not using it, i would prefer if Neo had wifi :) |
09:38.51 | LuitvD | :P |
09:39.09 | LuitvD | hmm, script doesn't trigger... |
09:39.18 | Harlekin | LuitvD: was thinking about EDGE |
09:39.27 | LuitvD | Harlekin: ah :P |
09:39.42 | Harlekin | was somehow still in the iPhone context |
09:39.54 | LuitvD | shame on you :) |
09:40.13 | Harlekin | yeah, real life sometimes interferes |
09:40.37 | florian | good morning |
09:41.31 | LuitvD | bluh, I hope my PDA and cellphone are still worth some money... |
09:41.47 | LuitvD | going to sell both and buy a Neo ASAP |
09:42.22 | Harlekin | LuitvD: so you do not need a reliable phone? |
09:42.58 | zoolooc | hi folks, is the Neo already available? Do you insider guys know when a Wifi + BT enabled version will hit the market? |
09:42.58 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess |
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09:44.12 | Kaco | aloril, that will work, but it's not very convinient |
09:44.35 | Harlekin | and probably not very mobile |
09:44.38 | aloril2 | counter? |
09:44.38 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, 2 days 02:15:21 (3.094 - 9.094 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 2 days (25.094 - 40.094 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 2 days (193.094 - 223.094 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (366) |
09:44.44 | Psi | zoolooc, im pretty sure they said they plan to keep the current distribution cycle, so, following the current one, you should be able to buy the next neo model march 11th 2008 |
09:45.25 | Psi | thats a pretty big extrapolation tho, there are many factors to consider |
09:45.25 | zoolooc | alright, thanks Psi |
09:45.47 | aloril2 | about wifi version: either september or next year (guesses) |
09:45.58 | Psi | yeah |
09:46.03 | zoolooc | guess so.. I hope that openmoko will be usable on other pda-phones, too |
09:46.22 | zoolooc | what open-source GPS app is supposed to be used? |
09:46.35 | zoolooc | how is the map material situation? |
09:46.45 | Psi | no idea |
09:46.46 | d0tslash | [x] openstreetmap |
09:46.54 | tigert | the young man is asking tough questions :) |
09:46.59 | Psi | heh |
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09:48.04 | d0tslash | zoolooc: and gpsdrive was available for zaurus too. it might work as well. and it also supports openstreetmap data in newer versions afaik |
09:48.12 | koen | heh |
09:48.18 | koen | gpsdrive suckls donkey ass |
09:48.25 | koen | I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole |
09:48.37 | tigert | maemomapper would fit nicely I guess |
09:48.38 | d0tslash | koen: yeah, but do you have a better one? :> |
09:48.39 | tigert | its nice and small |
09:48.48 | koen | and I know of no sane person that wants to work on it after seeing the source |
09:48.52 | koen | d0tslash: yes, maemo-mapper |
09:49.00 | d0tslash | i have seen the source when i tried to fix some bug ... |
09:49.07 | d0tslash | i was ... shocked |
09:49.12 | d0tslash | but it works after all O_o |
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09:50.09 | d0tslash | thanks for the hint, i'll have a look at maemomapper .. |
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09:52.10 | LuitvD | Harlekin: reliable? what do you mean reliable? Everything I run has open-source software in beta-testing fase... |
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09:52.35 | Harlekin | LuitvD: you might want to consider to keep your other phone while doing development on the neo |
09:53.49 | LuitvD | Harlekin: I'm not going to develop my own kernel or gsmd... so I guess it'll always be able to make a phone call... |
09:53.50 | aloril2 | phase 2 phone probably has some hardware changes from phase 1, but don't know if those changes will include wifi; also developers byuing phase 1 phone will get discount |
09:53.56 | tigert | LuitvD: if you hack something, there will be times when it won't boot or such |
09:54.22 | LuitvD | aloril2: what kind of discount? :O |
09:54.30 | koen | "rm /sbin/init" oopos |
09:54.36 | koen | -o |
09:54.58 | LuitvD | haveing both p1 and a p2 device would be nice :) |
09:55.21 | koen | what's the difference between those? |
09:55.22 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-155-70.telkomadsl.co.za) |
09:55.25 | LuitvD | tigert: if I hack the wrong something then I won't be able to boot... |
09:55.41 | LuitvD | koen: what aloril2 said... |
09:55.46 | aloril2 | LuitvD: that was not specified |
09:56.00 | LuitvD | koen: a possible difference... |
09:56.13 | LuitvD | koen: if the p2 device has wifi, I'd love to have that one too :P |
09:56.20 | koen | LuitvD: maybe a small board layout change, that's it |
09:56.22 | koen | no wifi |
09:56.27 | LuitvD | ah, okay |
09:56.48 | Psi | yeah, id be very surprised if they added wifi to p2 |
09:56.55 | LuitvD | me too :) |
09:56.57 | koen | added *anything* |
09:57.24 | Psi | there was something about a external jtag connector that i read somewhere |
09:57.32 | koen | that's in p0 as well |
09:57.41 | hrw | from recent mails it looks like they will add few i2c pins available |
09:57.53 | LuitvD | anyways, I'm off to install linux on a friend's computer |
09:57.55 | LuitvD | bye all |
09:58.00 | Psi | isnt p0 jtag an internal connector? |
10:00.45 | koen | yes |
10:00.58 | koen | but why on earth would FIC make it external? |
10:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
10:01.28 | Psi | i can imagine that undoing the phone every time you want to use jtag might be quite annoying |
10:01.48 | koen | how many times do you want to use jtag? |
10:01.56 | vmaster | you wont have to use JTAG very often unless you're working on the bootloader |
10:02.04 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
10:02.15 | vmaster | or maybe some linux driver development |
10:02.28 | hrw | vmaster: even bootloader can be tested inside of bootloader |
10:02.38 | Psi | isn't jtag also used for general debugging of applications? |
10:02.49 | vmaster | Psi: no, you can use gdbserver for that |
10:02.49 | hrw | vmaster: you can load uboot into ram, jump to it from uboot/flash and do testing |
10:02.50 | koen | Psi: no, that's gdb |
10:02.52 | mjr | aloril2, IIRC it's been clear enough that phase 2 may change a bit (though I also doubt very much there will be large changes like wifi) |
10:02.52 | aloril2 | if hardware is same in p2 than p1, why would you needto buy new? just reflash new software ;-) |
10:02.55 | Psi | ah, ok |
10:03.30 | Psi | fair enough then |
10:03.30 | vmaster | hrw: well, if I have JTAG available I would use it for bootloader development, as it makes things easier, but that's probably a matter of personal taste |
10:04.06 | hrw | vmaster: I wonder why people likes to work on bootloaders... if it works dont fix it |
10:04.12 | Lunved | I'm trying to run openmoko under xoo, but it looks for openmoko-footer which doesn't exist |
10:04.21 | XorA | hrw: s/fix/broke/ |
10:04.26 | Lunved | Does this mean I need to do a native build? |
10:04.28 | mjr | anyway as said I'll probably buy p2 too so I'll use that and my SO will get my p1 and we'll be able to use all the nifty communications apps that you guys have developed at that point ;) |
10:04.50 | vmaster | koen: that never worked afaik |
10:05.22 | hrw | mjr: what about p0/p1/p2 collecting? |
10:05.33 | Lunved | If so, does a native build mean setting MACHINE=x86? |
10:05.37 | koen | vmaster: oh well, I managed to avoid bricking stuff the past 4 years, so I'll manage it another few years from now as well :) |
10:06.21 | vmaster | koen: heh, yeah, but with the number of developers openmoko is attracting i believe it's quite likely that at least some of them manage to brick their phone |
10:06.35 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
10:07.01 | Psi | i agree |
10:07.02 | koen | vmaster: the people on the mailing seem capable of bricking their precious emulator |
10:07.33 | mjr | hrw, yes well. Not getting a p0 *snif*. I'll have to buy one used it seems... |
10:07.59 | koen | XorA: part0! |
10:08.38 | hrw | right, part0 - because why waste it |
10:09.07 | vmaster | hehehe |
10:09.56 | koen | hrw: right, how needs a bootloader when the BIOS can boot linux just fine |
10:10.02 | koen | s/how/who/ |
10:12.51 | Psi | getting the 3.3v wont be easy |
10:13.03 | Psi | its not like there is an external 3.3v plug on the phone |
10:13.22 | XorA | Psi: or Vbatt -> DCDC -> 5v as thats easy |
10:13.36 | mjr | it won't be hard, since the connectors are visible when you open the back |
10:13.44 | Psi | ah, do you mean, put a little dcdc inside the phone casing? |
10:14.09 | XorA | Psi: yeah, I expect someone to do the mod to get a wireless dongle running :-) |
10:14.45 | Psi | looking at the pics of inside the phone there doesn't look to be much room |
10:14.59 | XorA | Psi: it would have to be an extended back |
10:15.10 | Psi | that would work :) |
10:17.19 | hrw | XorA: you have case for neo or not? |
10:17.26 | XorA | hrw: I do |
10:17.26 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=mag@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
10:17.52 | hrw | XorA: so you can tell does it fit or how much it will not fit |
10:18.27 | XorA | hrw: there is no way it would fit with the back as is, but any plastic bender should be able to fit a new back |
10:18.47 | XorA | hrw: also note, its not the real case I have |
10:18.57 | hrw | hm I have to check dimensions of phone to compare with current one |
10:19.38 | parag0n | i'm sure theres enough room in there for a smt linear reg + thin wires |
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10:34.20 | rwhitby | XorA: do you know what host distro the core team members such as yourself, mickey|zzZZzz and LaF0rge use? |
10:34.50 | rwhitby | (i.e. is there a "standard" host distro config that you guys have chosen) |
10:35.13 | *** join/#openmoko fish_ (n=fish@freigeist.org) |
10:35.18 | fish_ | hi |
10:35.26 | XorA | rwhitby: Im not core, I work for Wolfson, I personally use openSuSe |
10:36.03 | rwhitby | XorA: do you know what the others use? |
10:36.31 | hrw | rwhitby: debian |
10:37.02 | XorA | rwhitby: I beleive mickey|zzZZzz is a Mandriva man |
10:37.23 | robtaylor | rwhitby: as in you're thinking of making one? |
10:37.45 | rwhitby | robtaylor: gathering info to see whether it is possible to converge on one. |
10:38.08 | XorA | rwhitby: the easieast way to do it would be a debian chrootable/vmwareable image |
10:38.17 | rwhitby | (i.e. there is no point in making one if it's not the same as the majority of the core devs are using) |
10:38.19 | robtaylor | rwhitby: i was actually going to look at doing a vmware/livecd developers environ today |
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10:39.23 | robtaylor | rwhitby: really, it doesnt matter |
10:39.34 | robtaylor | rwhitby: oe isn;t very distro-dependant |
10:39.56 | rwhitby | robtaylor: I'm thinking things like software like on this page, not OE: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board |
10:40.00 | robtaylor | and everyone just uses terminal windows and vim :) |
10:40.19 | rwhitby | i.e. making sure it has the right ftdi drivers and stuff. |
10:41.42 | rwhitby | and qemu, and xoo, .... |
10:41.47 | *** part/#openmoko pengwen (n=pengwen@156.80-203-38.nextgentel.com) |
10:43.18 | rwhitby | and openocd |
10:44.58 | rwhitby | or at least have all those things buildable natively (with the right configurations and patches) in OE ... |
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10:51.20 | robtaylor | rwhitby: but... noone's going to be using the debug boards |
10:52.30 | robtaylor | rwhitby: i'd vote debian or ubuntu. I can always package the tools up as and when they're neede |
10:52.33 | robtaylor | d |
10:52.39 | rwhitby | robtaylor: all phase0 devs get a debug board apparently |
10:52.59 | robtaylor | oh, thats a new one to me :) |
10:53.02 | rwhitby | robtaylor: I use Debian Etch here |
10:53.39 | robtaylor | yeah, etch is probably the right thing. |
10:54.34 | rwhitby | robtaylor: on openmoko-devel, I asked Werner "Is a debug v2 board included in the Phase 0 dev package?" and the response was "Yep. It'll be optional for phase 1, though." |
10:54.36 | robtaylor | rwhitby: any good at packaging? :) |
10:55.05 | rwhitby | robtaylor: I use VMWare with Debian for all my development, but have never tried to package anything ... |
10:55.33 | robtaylor | rwhitby: ok, i'll get openocd and ftdi packaged up then |
10:55.48 | robtaylor | if noone's already done it |
10:58.10 | rwhitby | they are packaged, but need bleeding edge patches it seems. |
10:59.50 | robtaylor | rwhitby: already in etch? |
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11:01.19 | robtaylor | rwhitby: where's the packaging you've seen? |
11:01.38 | rwhitby | http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/dpkg |
11:03.09 | robtaylor | cool |
11:03.46 | robtaylor | hmm, badly packaged, actually :/ |
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11:45.28 | Genesis_ | yo |
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11:49.02 | raster | crapola there are a lot of peeps in here |
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11:56.01 | Genesis_ | thanks to put photo of the neo without case |
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12:06.44 | Magon | does anyone had problems with intltool and openmoko-dates package? |
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12:31.22 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@wolgograd.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
12:39.50 | tigert | robtaylor: I wonder if openmoko could run on scratchbox? |
12:41.59 | robtaylor | tigert: why would you want to do that? |
12:42.46 | robtaylor | tigert: OE's the build environment, so there's not much point in using sb |
12:43.08 | tigert | robtaylor: to use my existing sbox :) |
12:43.11 | robtaylor | (and OE is a lot nicer a build env than sb ;) |
12:43.56 | robtaylor | tigert: its a bit like asking about building linux without gmake |
12:44.15 | tigert | :) |
12:44.24 | tigert | I tried building emacs on IRIX |
12:44.25 | tigert | once. |
12:44.39 | robtaylor | indeed =) |
13:01.18 | *** join/#openmoko longshot (n=gl@CPE-61-9-147-123.static.vic.bigpond.net.au) |
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13:23.43 | Fletch | counter |
13:23.43 | aloril | P0: a week, a day 22:36:16 (2.942 - 8.942 days); P1: 24.942 - 39.942; P2: 192.942 - 222.942 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (367) |
13:24.45 | SpeedEvil | A week is a long time in politics. |
13:24.59 | SpeedEvil | s/po/p0/ |
13:25.37 | xkr47 | 39.942 would suit me perfectly |
13:25.51 | SpeedEvil | ? |
13:25.55 | koen | not 39.963? |
13:26.07 | xkr47 | certainly not!! |
13:26.08 | xkr47 | :) |
13:26.25 | xkr47 | I'm busy with moving to a new flat in march so.. :) |
13:26.32 | xkr47 | better not have any distractions :) |
13:26.42 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
13:27.59 | andrerav | as a regular consumer not afraid to hack, should I buy an openmoko now or wait? |
13:28.17 | eugene | 0/j #linux.conf.au |
13:29.15 | xkr47 | andrerav, it's like asking an investor whether to invest :) |
13:29.30 | andrerav | hm :) |
13:29.30 | xkr47 | INVEST!! is the only answer you can get :) |
13:29.42 | andrerav | you got one? |
13:29.52 | xkr47 | in 39.9 days yes |
13:29.57 | xkr47 | not yet |
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13:36.18 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: I'm editing the 1-wire suggestion - USB is high power and there isn't a spare port in the phone. I2C is daisy-chainable. Adding 1-wire suggestion (as one app of an externally accessible I2C bus) |
13:37.34 | xkr47 | so there is i2c-to-1wire also ? |
13:38.06 | XorA | careful with that i2c bus |
13:38.25 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, thanks.. it was just an idea after all.. 1wire has some nice easily usable, quite small parts that can be used for a lot of stuff |
13:38.37 | xkr47 | XorA, elaborate ? |
13:39.14 | XorA | xkr47: remeber that the chips internally are controlled, so dont fsck the bus or the phone will cease to work/damage itself in interesting ways |
13:40.36 | SpeedEvil | 1 wire has lots of nice small parts. |
13:40.36 | xkr47 | yeah.. some diodes etc should be placed on the 1wire side to protect the stuff |
13:40.36 | SpeedEvil | But the interface chips are quite large. |
13:40.45 | SpeedEvil | It'd make more sense to bring out I2C, if possible, and use an I2C - 1-wire bridge. |
13:40.53 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, is 10x15mm too large? |
13:41.10 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, I was more thinking of fitting it inside somewhere.. |
13:41.15 | xkr47 | at least the temperature sensor |
13:41.21 | *** join/#openmoko al3x (n=alex@217.27.212.195) |
13:41.26 | SpeedEvil | Compared to 1*2mm for a stand-alone I2C sensor, yes. |
13:41.46 | xkr47 | the ds1820 is quite reactive and certainly would beat the current nokia temperature meter which is ~5-10 degrees off :) |
13:41.48 | SpeedEvil | Which does not need an interface chip, and just sticks on to the I2C bus somewhere. |
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13:42.13 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, I'm not into i2c, sounds from you like there are temp sensors already directly for i2c.. |
13:42.20 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
13:42.37 | SpeedEvil | Also I2C - 1wire bridges. |
13:42.50 | xkr47 | but I think XorA's point is valid.. some protection is needed if i2c is going out from the phone |
13:43.32 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, thanks for updating the article :) |
13:43.42 | xkr47 | or if you didn't, for the discussion :) |
13:44.10 | SpeedEvil | True. |
13:45.52 | xkr47 | how about the debug card, where does it get it's usb port from? does it take over the onboard usb port ? |
13:46.53 | *** join/#openmoko jzs (n=king@217.116.232.184) |
13:47.11 | SpeedEvil | AIUI - it doesn't have one. |
13:47.21 | SpeedEvil | The USB port is to talk to the debug board. |
13:47.24 | daxxar | AIUI? |
13:47.28 | daxxar | As I understand it? |
13:47.29 | SpeedEvil | As I Understand IT. |
13:47.41 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
13:47.46 | xkr47 | daxxar is fast on the keys, slow on the brain bandwidth :) |
13:47.46 | XorA | xkr47: I will also point at http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/i2c-permit_invalid_addrs.patch and swear about chips that dont follow i2c spec |
13:47.57 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
13:48.00 | xkr47 | good point |
13:48.01 | daxxar | xkr47: xD |
13:48.04 | daxxar | True |
13:48.15 | xkr47 | no worries, I'm like that too |
13:48.20 | daxxar | Oh, can't wait for the phone. |
13:48.31 | DukeOfURL | counter |
13:48.32 | aloril | P0: a week, a day 22:11:27 (2.925 - 8.925 days); P1: 24.925 - 39.925; P2: 192.925 - 222.925 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (368) |
13:48.38 | daxxar | Wish I had prior experience with embedded development so I could get one of those developer-prereleases. |
13:48.43 | SpeedEvil | I'm pretty sure it was one of the people with existing hardware. |
13:48.54 | daxxar | Horrendous pain being a simple C-developer ;P |
13:49.09 | SpeedEvil | You diddn't need embedded skills really. |
13:49.15 | xkr47 | daxxar, heh |
13:49.22 | SpeedEvil | Just a sort-of-relevant history. |
13:49.31 | daxxar | Hm, I recall reading something about prior embedded experience |
13:49.40 | SpeedEvil | That's a plus, of course. |
13:49.51 | SpeedEvil | However, too late now. |
13:50.00 | daxxar | Yepyep |
13:50.20 | *** part/#openmoko eugene (i=eugene@redhat/eugene) |
13:50.27 | vmaster | regarding debug: I found the wiki entry for the OpenOCD with the list of known bugs - I think I fixed the libftdi initialization in revision 131, would be nice if the person who reported that bug could check if this works now |
13:51.09 | SpeedEvil | <LaF0rge> speed: there's no usb on the debug connector |
13:51.17 | DukeOfURL | What's the protocol between a cellphone and the BT earpiece? |
13:51.30 | koen | DukeOfURL: depends on the earpiece |
13:51.30 | DukeOfURL | Is there an IP stack on both sides? |
13:51.36 | DukeOfURL | Bluetooth |
13:51.38 | SpeedEvil | It's not IP. |
13:51.40 | daxxar | Wouldn't IP be a bit overkill? :o |
13:51.55 | koen | you can run IP over bluetooth |
13:52.01 | DukeOfURL | s/IP/ethernet/ |
13:52.04 | koen | that's what PAN and NAP do |
13:52.05 | SpeedEvil | Sure - but the headsets don't. |
13:52.07 | koen | as well as BNEP |
13:52.24 | daxxar | koen: Does that change the fact that using it for 1:1-communcation with a headset would be overkill/bloat? |
13:52.32 | DukeOfURL | Is it ethernet, or is there a different protocol? |
13:52.36 | koen | newer headsets do a2dp, no idea what older ones use |
13:52.50 | koen | daxxar: no idea |
13:52.50 | DukeOfURL | a2dp? |
13:54.06 | XorA | koen: you dont normally run GSM over A2DP |
13:54.07 | DukeOfURL | is Bluetooth another MAC layer with discovery capabilities? |
13:54.07 | koen | XorA: a2dp is the hifi thing? |
13:54.28 | XorA | koen: yeah, lossy comrpession running over the data link |
13:54.59 | koen | DukeOfURL: http://www.bluetooth.com/Bluetooth/Learn/ |
13:55.22 | DukeOfURL | Yea, I'm looking at the wikipedia now |
13:55.48 | DukeOfURL | Koen: thx |
13:56.45 | koen | man, some of my fellow students really are ignorant |
13:57.19 | DukeOfURL | huh? |
13:57.19 | koen | "I discovered this site abread (russia I guess) with all the answer to our assignments" |
13:57.25 | koen | the link: http://www.sm.luth.se/csee/courses/sms/028/engelska.html |
13:57.32 | SpeedEvil | ... |
13:57.35 | vmaster | lol |
13:57.42 | SpeedEvil | Yes, because .se means russia, you see. |
13:58.15 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=mag@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
13:58.27 | DukeOfURL | se=Singapore? |
13:58.35 | SpeedEvil | .sg |
13:59.01 | koen | sweden |
13:59.39 | xkr47 | se = sweden |
13:59.44 | xkr47 | oops |
13:59.47 | koen | it was an example of how saying less can make you seem more intelligent |
14:00.08 | xkr47 | and I did the opposite example as well |
14:00.26 | koen | nah, you were just making sure :) |
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14:03.45 | DukeOfURL | So it looks like BT has a lower media layer with 27 upper layer "profiles", one of which is a2dp |
14:04.02 | DukeOfURL | Probably a different API for each profile. |
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14:11.08 | xkr47 | DukeOfURL, are you adding a2dp support to openmoko so it will be more on par with iphone ?-) |
14:12.26 | DukeOfURL | I would like to develop a headset emulator, over the USB cable as well as over BT. This is all a learning experience for me. |
14:14.05 | DukeOfURL | the Neo would be the headset and the PC would run the softphone program. |
14:14.27 | DukeOfURL | So when you're at your PC you wouldn't be using GSM |
14:15.24 | xkr47 | nice |
14:15.27 | koen | you could (ab)use pulseaudio for that |
14:15.45 | koen | that already has network capabilities and should be installed on your desktop |
14:16.05 | koen | http://pulseaudio.org/ |
14:16.11 | DukeOfURL | looks like the audio stream to a BT headset is 8KHz. would that be uLaw or aLaw? |
14:16.32 | Magon | koen: had you problems with intltool while building openmoko-date? |
14:16.48 | koen | I had, and I solved them, see bugzilla |
14:16.54 | Magon | ok |
14:17.08 | Magon | thx |
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14:19.15 | DukeOfURL | I read somewhere that the Bluetooth organization tightly controls the name--that before you can say your device is BT compatible it must be blessed by the organization. Is this true? |
14:19.59 | DukeOfURL | I remember that megabucks were involved in product certification |
14:20.24 | koen | correct |
14:20.51 | Magon | koen: bugzilla.openmoko.org? |
14:21.09 | koen | Magon: yes |
14:21.20 | Magon | cannot find it |
14:25.00 | tigert | call it cyanjaws? :) |
14:27.08 | *** part/#openmoko dirak1 (n=dirakx@69.79.145.81) |
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14:49.24 | aloril2 | counter? |
14:49.25 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, a day 21:10:35 (2.882 - 8.882 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, a day (24.882 - 39.882 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, a day (192.882 - 222.882 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (369) |
14:49.43 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux (n=sri@59.92.134.203) |
14:50.22 | aloril2 | a month, a week, a day and many hours for upper limit of phase 1 |
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14:57.42 | xkr47 | but I was pretty tired and I think it was some cvs server of some matchbox-panel-2 or so that didn't answer |
14:57.48 | xkr47 | might even be my firewall blocking :P |
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15:08.07 | SpeedEvil | If they are available early enough, they could speed up the second batch. |
15:08.22 | SpeedEvil | Unless FIC get the prediction right (or wrong the other way) |
15:09.01 | SpeedEvil | I can only afford one ATM. |
15:09.09 | SpeedEvil | I'm going to be playing with adding hardware. |
15:09.55 | SpeedEvil | I think first off is a torch, fitted next to the GPS antenna. |
15:10.59 | SpeedEvil | Why would it brick itself then? |
15:11.17 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, maybe one of those torches with this magnetic thing - if you shake it, it generates electricity |
15:11.23 | xkr47 | so you can charge your moko by shaking it :D |
15:11.38 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, I've heard my friends n800 did it just by battery discharging |
15:11.50 | xkr47 | s/I've heard // |
15:12.02 | SpeedEvil | Yes! Let's call it the Free Alternative Power Moko |
15:12.07 | SpeedEvil | Or FAP-Moko. |
15:12.12 | xkr47 | :D |
15:12.32 | SpeedEvil | To recap a post I made over on candlepowerforums. |
15:12.35 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: blue or white led ? |
15:12.44 | SpeedEvil | The arm + moko weighs a couple of kilos. |
15:13.07 | xkr47 | not to mention the leg! |
15:13.08 | SpeedEvil | The magnet moving weighs maybe 20g, or 1% of the total weight. |
15:13.30 | LetoTo | no blue leds! :P |
15:13.33 | LetoTo | that are overused :) |
15:13.33 | xkr47 | I think an external generator would be quite nice |
15:13.35 | SpeedEvil | The efficiency of extracting the energy is perhaps 10% - for .1% overall efficiency. |
15:13.44 | LetoTo | can we have one of the photon led colours? : |
15:13.46 | SpeedEvil | So to charge at .1W, you need to provide 100W. |
15:13.47 | xkr47 | if anyone know any sold online, let me know :) |
15:13.49 | SpeedEvil | Personally. |
15:13.55 | SpeedEvil | I'm going with a 1W Cree LED. |
15:14.07 | SpeedEvil | As bright as a 4W halogen bulb. |
15:14.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: interesting, wonder what the current draw is |
15:14.31 | SpeedEvil | 1W, 3.?V |
15:14.38 | SpeedEvil | 350mA |
15:15.04 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: ahh had to do a double take, didn't realize you had 1W there |
15:15.15 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: not enough coffee eyt this morning |
15:15.24 | xkr47 | I have a 12V 100mA 18-led halogen-cased light |
15:15.42 | SpeedEvil | LEDs vary a hell of a lot though. |
15:15.43 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: hehe that's more than the entire rest of our 2440 system |
15:15.52 | xkr47 | I put it on my bicycle, it works great, much brighter and less power |
15:16.00 | SpeedEvil | You can easily get 10* variations in efficiency. |
15:16.15 | SpeedEvil | The cree is nice in that at low powers it gets even more efficient. |
15:16.51 | PBeck | hi |
15:16.52 | SpeedEvil | I'm probably wiring it across the vibrator motor, with a extra transistor. |
15:16.56 | SpeedEvil | Hi. |
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16:15.00 | LuitvD | hello |
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16:17.31 | jebba | hey LuitvD. IIRC you were asking about the qemu images yesterday. i mailed the list. They're here: ftp://ftp.blagblagblag.org/pub/BLAG/developers/jebba/openmoko/ |
16:18.13 | LuitvD | jebba: thnkx |
16:18.23 | LuitvD | that was me :) |
16:19.03 | xkr47 | I think the domain is a bit overbranded :) |
16:19.04 | LuitvD | jebba: doesn't qemu need a .img file? |
16:19.27 | jebba | .ext2 works |
16:20.06 | LuitvD | oh wait, now I see how XD |
16:20.23 | LuitvD | yeah, directly passing the ext2 file to the kernel |
16:22.10 | LuitvD | thanks a lot :) |
16:22.43 | Magon | does anyone know how to solve intltool problem in openmoko-devel-image? i cannot find the bug in bugzilla |
16:23.40 | LuitvD | Magon: if there's no bugzilla report... then maybe it's an unknown bug? |
16:24.02 | Magon | LuitvD: koen saied that he made a bug in bugzilla |
16:24.05 | koen | or you didn't search good enough |
16:24.26 | LuitvD | lol |
16:24.55 | LuitvD | koen: like I said... "if there is no ..." not "if you can't find a ..." |
16:25.13 | koen | http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/buglist.cgi?short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=intltool&long_desc_type=allwordssubstr&long_desc=&bug_file_loc_type=allwordssubstr&bug_file_loc=&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=RESOLVED&bug_status=VERIFIED&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&votes=&c |
16:26.09 | LuitvD | that's a nasty url :P |
16:26.10 | Magon | i see just first 126 bugs....why?? |
16:26.16 | Magon | btw thx |
16:27.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1052 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410-splash.patch: |
16:27.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: include/configs/neo1973.h: remove #if 1 ... #endif around video definitions |
16:27.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: common/cmd_mem.c: new command "unzip srcaddr dstaddr [dstsize]" to unzip from |
16:27.42 | CIA-7 | openmoko: memory to memory, and option CONFIG_UNZIP to enable it |
16:28.47 | Magon | koen: my pardon....i had choosed wrong status ;-(( |
16:30.29 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
16:31.25 | Elrond | I hope werner tries to get his stuff upstream too. |
16:31.27 | LuitvD | Magon: filters, lol |
16:31.54 | Magon | LuitvD: i have not noticed that filters |
16:32.16 | Magon | btw: simply adding intltool to dependency is not solving this |
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16:33.36 | hrw | openmoko has too old intltool iirc for some stuff |
16:34.04 | Magon | it have 0.35_rcXX |
16:34.31 | Magon | and it is sufficent |
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16:52.41 | _-InFeRnO-_ | it seems that OpenMoko is considered to be ported to Greenphone |
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16:53.36 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03thomas * r1053 10/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokoui/moko-alignment.c: |
16:53.36 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * Remove access to private parent struct |
16:53.36 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * Don't set the padding in the size request. Fixes bug 186. |
16:53.47 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: it would be nice... though I'd prefer to buy the FIC-neo1973 instead of the greenphone |
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16:54.10 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yes, but i find stylus and touch screen very unconfortable |
16:54.18 | _-InFeRnO-_ | and VGA screen is way too big |
16:54.26 | _-InFeRnO-_ | (i want to put it in my pocket) |
16:54.47 | LuitvD | (featuring WiFi and a keypad doesn't make it 2x as expensive...) |
16:55.01 | LuitvD | err... want to fit in in your pocket? the screen is 2,8" IIRC |
16:55.20 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yes but its touchscreen |
16:55.24 | _-InFeRnO-_ | it's very fragile |
16:55.29 | LuitvD | not really.. |
16:55.36 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i must remove it from the pocket |
16:56.12 | LuitvD | my PDA is now being used without any extra pocket or case, and it's been that way for months |
16:56.16 | LuitvD | without any problems |
16:56.19 | Stephmw | touchscreens usually mean protective membrane...oh and don't keep your keys in the same pocket |
16:56.24 | _-InFeRnO-_ | at least if i want the device to live atleast 3 yrs |
16:56.30 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: and the Greenphone features a touchscreen too |
16:56.43 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: then you should treat the device well :P |
16:56.48 | Stephmw | smartphone-class device ==> touchscreen these days |
16:56.56 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: there's a thing called "screen protector" |
16:57.03 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
16:57.07 | _-InFeRnO-_ | even so, i find keypad more familiar |
16:57.20 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: and the greenphone has a touchscreen too |
16:57.22 | LuitvD | :) |
16:57.24 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yes |
16:57.35 | LuitvD | and is twice as expensive as the Neo1973 |
16:57.38 | LuitvD | more then twice |
16:58.10 | Clint | and less free |
16:58.17 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yes, but a Neo1973 model with a keypad (with softkeys) and a TS protector i find very nice to have |
16:58.26 | LuitvD | and the SDK of the greenphone is another FIC Neo1973 :P |
16:58.53 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: a touchscreen protector is just a regular piece of adhesive plastic |
16:59.14 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: universal screenprotectors work on every touchscreen device you know... |
16:59.20 | _-InFeRnO-_ | maybe this is the case only with IPAQ |
16:59.37 | *** join/#openmoko tuxperger (n=mv@geo9.hut.fi) |
16:59.37 | _-InFeRnO-_ | (it says "remove device from pocket before sitting) |
17:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
17:01.07 | LuitvD | jebba: the /etc/X11/Xserver you refer to in the README... is that in the .ext2 file? |
17:03.03 | loufoque | koen has a weird face |
17:03.33 | _-InFeRnO-_ | people are different |
17:04.35 | LuitvD | :P |
17:04.43 | LuitvD | loufoque: wth? :P |
17:05.32 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
17:06.03 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i wonder if N1973 is available in PRC |
17:06.03 | loufoque | or maybe I just confused a tree with his ear. |
17:06.09 | _-InFeRnO-_ | (FIC is taiwanese) |
17:08.37 | Magon | where to search for SRCDATE...just conf/site.conf or is there another location? |
17:09.50 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181209253.pp.htv.fi) |
17:10.35 | *** part/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
17:10.48 | *** join/#openmoko holtmann (n=holtmann@nikita.holtmann.net) |
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17:11.51 | _-InFeRnO-_ | i'm sorry for the stupid question, but is Neo1973 made by request of OpenMoko, or by initiative of FIC |
17:14.28 | *** join/#openmoko jzs (n=king@217.116.232.184) |
17:19.32 | Elrond | _-InFeRnO-_ - FIC. |
17:19.52 | Elrond | _-InFeRnO-_ - But FIC listens to the OpenMoko people for hardware design issues. |
17:20.10 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
17:20.45 | *** join/#openmoko Elixir- (i=mixed@cpe-66-68-172-127.austin.res.rr.com) |
17:22.15 | Elixir- | So how does the OpenMoko community direct development? Is the Wiki a living design doc or is something else in use? |
17:24.06 | SpeedEvil | pretty much. |
17:24.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
17:24.30 | SpeedEvil | That, and the mailing lists. |
17:24.33 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
17:24.42 | SpeedEvil | And project.openmoko.org |
17:25.23 | SpeedEvil | At the moment - the number of devs with hardware is 4? In a weekish, it rises to 50 |
17:25.25 | Elrond | s/project/projects/ I think. |
17:25.30 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
17:25.34 | SpeedEvil | well - 54 |
17:25.50 | SpeedEvil | So I expect discussion to rise at that point. |
17:25.51 | Elixir- | Is the initial run only 50 units?! |
17:26.01 | SpeedEvil | For phase 0 developers |
17:26.12 | SpeedEvil | In phase 1 - late march, ayone can buy. |
17:26.16 | SpeedEvil | for $350 |
17:26.27 | SpeedEvil | and that'll presumably be several hundred units. |
17:26.43 | Elixir- | Yea thats when I plan on nabbing one |
17:26.51 | SpeedEvil | With further batches if those all sell in 6 weeks. |
17:27.34 | Elixir- | I just wish GSM was cheaper here ;) |
17:28.14 | SpeedEvil | here=? |
17:28.42 | Elixir- | Texas/USA |
17:28.52 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
17:29.07 | SpeedEvil | Here it's relatively cheap - but GPRS is still pounds/meg. |
17:29.38 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
17:31.40 | *** join/#openmoko msroest (n=msroest@coloc1.beyond.ca) |
17:32.44 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - BTW: is the usb connector at the neo side (mini-usb-dunno) hutplug-able? Or only the side to the PC? |
17:33.36 | Elrond | Elixir- - Yeah. I'd assume so too. Just want to be sure. |
17:34.04 | Elrond | For example the device side of magellan units definitely is not hutpluggable. |
17:34.04 | _-InFeRnO-_ | here (bulgaria) UMTS is 5 leva per MB |
17:34.10 | _-InFeRnO-_ | 5 leva = 2.5 EUR |
17:34.20 | _-InFeRnO-_ | it's relatively cheap |
17:34.24 | Elrond | ~change 5 leva to eur |
17:34.39 | Elrond | hoho |
17:34.54 | Elrond | apt, cluehammer yourself |
17:34.59 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ~change 5 bgn to eur |
17:35.11 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ha ha |
17:35.17 | Elrond | *G* |
17:35.30 | _-InFeRnO-_ | actually |
17:35.36 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ~change 4.9 bgn to eur |
17:35.46 | _-InFeRnO-_ | exactly |
17:35.48 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: what do you mean hotpluggable? Why would it not be? |
17:36.17 | SpeedEvil | Acting as a device - certainly, it's just a cable. |
17:36.19 | LuitvD | *munch* *munch* |
17:36.45 | SpeedEvil | Acting as a host - it's rather more complex, as some hubs don't like hosts with no power. |
17:36.47 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
17:36.55 | SpeedEvil | In no case should the neo catch fire. |
17:36.59 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - I think, usb hotplugability (at least for devices without battery) depends on the right order of pins getting out, etc. |
17:37.38 | SpeedEvil | Generally |
17:37.58 | SpeedEvil | it seems to work just fine - if you pretend that 5V is always connected |
17:38.07 | SpeedEvil | For the neo that is. |
17:38.17 | SpeedEvil | The data line connection order is not specified |
17:39.01 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p549515AC.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
17:39.18 | SpeedEvil | I'm basing this off experience with plugging other stuff into powered-all-the-time adaptors. |
17:39.57 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=SirCrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
17:40.04 | Elrond | Some magellan units specifically note, that you first should unplug at the pc, then at the unit (the connector at the unit are big connections plates at the back. Much like a mini-docking-station. You can't guarantee ordering there.) |
17:40.25 | SpeedEvil | That's pretty irrelevant - none of the USB wires care. |
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17:40.59 | *** part/#openmoko SirCrow (n=SirCrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
17:40.59 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba_ (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
17:42.28 | *** join/#openmoko mikl-dk (n=mikl-dk@0x573ce559.abnxx9.adsl-dhcp.tele.dk) |
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17:43.25 | LuitvD | is a regular 3-wire 2,5mm jackplug dangerous in the 4-wire 2,5mm jackplug socket of the neo? |
17:43.36 | SpeedEvil | no. |
17:43.45 | SpeedEvil | the connections are the same. |
17:43.58 | SpeedEvil | it's only the 'end' connector whihh is used for the headset IITC |
17:44.01 | SpeedEvil | IIRC |
17:44.02 | Elrond | So you basicly say "It might not be spec'd for hutpluggability, but it generally works out good"? |
17:44.19 | Elrond | (for usb) |
17:44.19 | SpeedEvil | USB is specced for hotplug. |
17:44.43 | SpeedEvil | The Neo isn't quite USB compliant. |
17:44.49 | SpeedEvil | But in general, mostly works. |
17:44.49 | Elrond | Doesn't the spec require pin-order for unplugging to be compliant? |
17:45.22 | SpeedEvil | It may require it - the worst that'll happen is a slightly unclean shutdown. |
17:45.54 | Elrond | Hmm. |
17:45.58 | SpeedEvil | I doubt even that though. |
17:46.21 | SpeedEvil | And if the USB stack gets notified in 50ms later than it should after an error timeout, it doesn't really matter. |
17:47.56 | mikl-dk | Good evening. I'm new here - just want to say hi. I have a small question: is the Neo1973 still going to be available within the next month if you're interested in developing to it? |
17:48.15 | SpeedEvil | yes |
17:48.18 | SpeedEvil | counter |
17:48.18 | aloril | P0: a week, a day 18:11:41 (2.758 - 8.758 days); P1: 24.758 - 39.758; P2: 192.758 - 222.758 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (370) |
17:48.22 | Elrond | mikl-dk - Try: "/msg aloril2 counter?" |
17:48.30 | SpeedEvil | sometime next month |
17:48.40 | Elrond | mikl-dk - Try: "/msg aloril counter?" |
17:48.43 | Elrond | That way. |
17:48.46 | mikl-dk | ahh, cheers, SpeedEvil and Elrond |
17:49.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - What is not usb compliant on the neo? |
17:50.28 | mikl-dk | how many "specially selected developers" are there - just wondering :-)? |
17:51.34 | Elrond | mikl-dk - The rumours say 50. |
17:52.54 | mikl-dk | Elrond, okay :-) Well, I look forward to being able to order this little bastard of a mobile beauty :-) |
17:54.10 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
17:55.40 | Elrond | I will wait at least until some people have done some basic testing.(How robust is it? How long does the battery life in the real world? Is the gps really comparable to a sirfIII? That sort of questions) |
17:56.31 | koen | "does the software actually do anything?" is also a good criteria |
17:56.39 | mikl-dk | yeah - maybe; but I hope to have the money to get one to "play" with - but I'm studying so the money are not just floating around :-) |
17:56.41 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
17:56.41 | LuitvD | hmm, what would be the best option... €2,38/MB, or €0,24/min? |
17:56.49 | koen | criterium even |
17:57.01 | Elrond | koen - Oh you mean like "Does it at least work as a normal phone?" ;o) |
17:57.05 | LuitvD | (for GPRS+EDGE+HSDPA) |
17:57.17 | LuitvD | (and UMTS) |
17:57.28 | koen | Elrond: right now the addressbook and calender app don't work |
17:57.54 | koen | well, they display, but you can't add, edit or import stuff |
17:58.04 | Elrond | Oh well. |
17:58.10 | Magon | and building head image is a bit pain ;-) |
17:58.42 | high-rez | Whose your carrier? The company I work for has a decent unlimited HSDPA/UMTS/EDGE/GPRS plan. |
17:59.10 | Elrond | Well, for the mum-dad-phase, this all has to become rockstable. |
17:59.48 | Magon | koen: i have fixed the eds-dbus to prodide right header, but still get dates.desktop no rules...how did you solved this one? |
18:00.04 | koen | maybe when people get their heads out of their ass^W^W^Wemulater they might start bugfixing |
18:00.15 | LuitvD | high-rez: t-mobile has an unlimited-internet plan too... 9,50 on top of the normal costs |
18:00.36 | Magon | i am just trying to build it..than start bugfixing |
18:00.47 | Magon | but i need at least compileable head |
18:00.55 | koen | I fixed it OE, and mickeyl fixed it in svn |
18:00.58 | high-rez | Luitvd: Are you .eu or .us? TMobile hasn't deployed a WCDMA network (hsdpa/umts) in the US yet. |
18:00.58 | Elrond | koen - Yeah. I hope, that P0 will give lots of bug fixes. |
18:01.34 | Magon | i am updating eo... |
18:01.38 | *** join/#openmoko rep (n=rep@vs187078.vserver.de) |
18:02.05 | koen | Magon: updating OE won;t help if you use the svn bbcollection |
18:02.13 | LuitvD | high-rez: europe... the netherlands does have HSDPA coverage of nearly 50% i guess... |
18:02.49 | LuitvD | high-rez: though, I won't be able to use it for my to-be openmoko device |
18:02.51 | koen | Elrond: if people need the 'real device' placebo to start developing I don't have high hopes for the amount or quality of bugfixes |
18:03.05 | Magon | koen: i use svn..so where is it fixed? |
18:03.39 | LuitvD | but is €2,38 / MB a decent GRPS traffic cost? |
18:04.02 | high-rez | Sounds high to me, I'd rather pay the 9.50 for unlimited. |
18:04.03 | koen | LuitvD: no |
18:04.09 | Elrond | koen - I can't convince myself to setup the buildenv for my desktop yet. So the placebo might get me to do it ;) |
18:04.20 | LuitvD | koen: why not? |
18:04.29 | LuitvD | :O |
18:04.31 | LuitvD | koen: where |
18:04.37 | koen | wirelesscircle.nl |
18:04.37 | LuitvD | koen: which carrier? |
18:04.46 | koen | kpn/telfort |
18:05.14 | high-rez | Is telefort any good? They would let my device register (cosmote) but I could never figure out how to make a call while I was in the .nl on telefort. |
18:05.25 | LuitvD | koen: that's a nice one :D |
18:05.48 | LuitvD | thanks |
18:07.25 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
18:07.32 | high-rez | Man, I wish you could buy prepay sims at schipol. ;( |
18:08.18 | *** join/#openmoko jim_rayner (n=jim_rayn@beyondvoice.plus.com) |
18:08.42 | LuitvD | high-rez: lol, found a shop :) |
18:08.50 | LuitvD | found ... euhh... create? |
18:09.36 | high-rez | LuitvD: Come again? |
18:10.10 | high-rez | LuitvD: Are you sayin there's a shop in schipol (airport) that sells prepaid sims? :D |
18:10.13 | LuitvD | high-rez: you should start a shop for prepaid cards at schiphol :P |
18:10.26 | _-InFeRnO-_ | BTW why you have chosen GPRS and not EDGE or UMTS |
18:10.52 | LuitvD | _-InFeRnO-_: you mean for the device? |
18:11.00 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yes |
18:11.01 | koen | EDGE == gprs |
18:11.05 | LuitvD | :P |
18:11.10 | _-InFeRnO-_ | yes |
18:11.11 | LuitvD | really? |
18:11.13 | _-InFeRnO-_ | but edge is faster |
18:11.27 | koen | multislot gprs, e-gprs, edge all the same thing |
18:11.42 | _-InFeRnO-_ | ok, and why not UMTS |
18:11.53 | koen | "we need a different word, it's FASTER!!" - gsm marketing dude |
18:11.54 | high-rez | LuitvD: Hey, I'm sure it would be great business. I bet the airpor has a regulation against it though, otherwise one of the 10000 electronics stores in the airport would sell em. ;) I was through schipol 6 times last year. |
18:12.07 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
18:12.30 | LarstiQ | high-rez: you sure they don't? |
18:12.40 | LuitvD | high-rez: hmm... maybe the electronics stores don't know there's a market in prepaid-sims :P |
18:13.07 | LuitvD | recife? |
18:13.28 | high-rez | UMTS (wcdma) considerations would be cost for the chipset (due to all of the patents involved), battery life associated with it, and the fact that it's a fairly segmented market at the moment. |
18:14.14 | high-rez | LarstiQ: Man I looked all over for one. I don't think they sell them as it would compete with the communications desk / phone card provider. It's truly lame though. |
18:16.03 | koen | high-rez: I'll look around in ~3 weeks when I'm at schiphol |
18:16.14 | koen | that reminds me.... |
18:16.34 | koen | vaccination against yellow fever |
18:16.39 | LarstiQ | high-rez: weird, I'd expect them to be sold alongside power plugs |
18:16.58 | LuitvD | koen: where're you going then? |
18:17.02 | high-rez | koen: Let me know if you find one there. My wife is going to be roaming through schipol. The Cosmote sim I had would roam onto the providers there, but didn't seem to be able to make a call. |
18:17.37 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
18:17.37 | koen | LuitvD: http://www.bossaconference.org/public.php |
18:18.08 | koen | high-rez: schiphol does have *really* bad reception with any network |
18:18.40 | koen | it could be your antenna wasn't beefy enough |
18:18.44 | LarstiQ | hmm, another approach for crosscompiling? |
18:18.48 | high-rez | koen: I was going a voice recording, but i couldn't understand what was being said when I tried to dial out. |
18:19.00 | koen | ah |
18:19.17 | koen | I hate those |
18:19.22 | high-rez | koen: That said, I can understand the but about poor reception. Additionally, I only have a 850/1800/19000mhz device - so I wasn't able to try the 900mhz providers. |
18:19.26 | koen | they are always in a language I don't understand |
18:19.56 | high-rez | koen: Yeah, in this case it was in dutch. :) My dutch skills are lacking. :) |
18:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI_ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
18:21.12 | high-rez | I love going to .eu but the 10 hour flight to schipol sucks. |
18:22.09 | koen | schiphol is a mess behind the scenes |
18:22.19 | koen | especially the MPs guarding it |
18:22.54 | high-rez | koen: I never left the "international area". I really need to one day and go see amsterdam. |
18:24.36 | noidd | schipol is amsterdam right? |
18:24.47 | koen | close |
18:25.17 | koen | noidd: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=nl&q=schiphol,+nederland&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=25.900485,74.970703&ie=UTF8&z=11&ll=52.349183,4.774933&spn=0.15561,0.810928&om=1 |
18:25.28 | noidd | I vaugly remember that through my sex + drug induced haze |
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18:30.34 | *** part/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
18:38.55 | DukeOfURL | I jumped onto a United flight in Dallas, just as they were closing the doors. Thought I was going to Frankfurt. The flight landed at Schipol. Had a great time in Holland! |
18:41.00 | *** join/#openmoko aeXin (n=brootvor@150.80-203-127.nextgentel.com) |
18:45.33 | Stephmw | DukeOfURL: You're lucky you didn't get shot ;) |
18:47.02 | *** join/#openmoko NatureTM (n=theking@CPE-70-94-38-157.wi.res.rr.com) |
18:48.29 | DukeOfURL | Heh. I almost did get shot once at Zurich airport. I grabbed my suitcase off the cart while walking on the tarmac and into the terminal building. They *really* didn't like that... |
18:48.58 | DukeOfURL | Those Swiss guards with the machine guns sure are big! |
18:49.03 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@p85.212.185.44.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
18:49.19 | Stephmw | Aye, I wouldn't try that with the French ones either |
18:49.41 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1054 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: Add headphone insertion GPIO to list of gta01kbd resources |
18:50.23 | *** join/#openmoko mako_ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
18:51.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1055 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-pcf50606.patch: |
18:51.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Implement suspend/resume for those registers of the PMU that don't survive |
18:51.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: STANDBY mode. This might be bogus, since we can't switch the PMU to standby |
18:51.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: in Power_off CPU mode anyway. Anyway, it doesn't make things worse to have it ;) |
18:51.42 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1056 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-inputdevice.patch: |
18:51.42 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * add HOLD key support to gta01kbd |
18:51.42 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * make both HOLD and 911 key events wake-up sources |
18:52.19 | DukeOfURL | Gotta reboot for the new OSX security updates. |
18:52.53 | *** join/#openmoko vmaster_ (i=vmaster@p5B07E22E.dip.t-dialin.net) |
18:53.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1057 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-s3c2410-mmc.patch: |
18:53.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: cosmetic cleanup, as requested by u-boot folks |
18:53.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * use 'debug' function rather than custom macros |
18:53.24 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * fix indentation |
18:54.33 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1058 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/uboot-cramfs_but_no_jffs2.patch: Incorporate cleanup as per u-boot developers reviews |
18:54.53 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
18:54.59 | *** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org) |
18:55.13 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@datenfreihafen.org) |
18:55.35 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1059 10/trunk/src/target/u-boot/patches/ (series uboot-neo1973-resume.patch): add (not yet working) suspend/resume from/to RAM support (Ben Dooks) |
18:58.05 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
18:58.43 | DukeOfURL | Hmmm. I don't feel any more secure. |
18:59.27 | PBeck | re |
19:02.35 | *** join/#openmoko mako__ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
19:07.34 | *** join/#openmoko mako (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
19:08.47 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
19:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko pirulo_ (n=andres_p@65.19.28.123) |
19:10.25 | *** join/#openmoko koen_ (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
19:11.42 | *** join/#openmoko Lazerdye (n=thaddock@82-41-154-116.cable.ubr01.linl.blueyonder.co.uk) |
19:12.11 | Lazerdye | Hi, I have openmoko running in qemu-arm, but is there a quick/easy way to get a cursor? |
19:12.52 | jebba | alt-tab to rxvt and you can see it on that screen. ;) It really is there, you just can't see it. |
19:13.23 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54950ADB.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
19:14.06 | Lazerdye | jebba: thanks, that's one way to do it :) |
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19:17.21 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p54953C46.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
19:18.33 | DukeOfURL | Two or three years ago I read where a Japanese company was offering cat translation--it supposedly translated your pet cat's meows into human speech. Was this a put-on, or is there really such a device? |
19:18.56 | k-y | such a device exists; whether or not it actually works is an exercise to the buyer |
19:19.14 | k-y | they also have devices that can supposedly translate dog barks and baby noises |
19:19.16 | DukeOfURL | If it was for real, can you imagine how many Neos we could sell with this application... |
19:23.14 | Elrond | DukeOfURL - *lol* |
19:24.00 | DukeOfURL | Not kidding. One must be a cat/dog lover to realize the importance of knowing what your pet is telling you. |
19:24.35 | DukeOfURL | A portable device like the Neo would be perfect. |
19:24.56 | Elrond | yeah. |
19:25.02 | SpeedEvil | 'Take this damn phone off me, it's heavy'. |
19:25.04 | Lazerdye | Just give your cat a Neo and she can call you whenever she wants. |
19:25.06 | Elrond | I wonder, wether the builtin mic is good enough. |
19:25.24 | Clint | [OT] http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/biztech/03/24/tech.dogs.language.reut/index.html |
19:25.34 | DukeOfURL | A BT dongle hanging from the cat collar... |
19:25.49 | DukeOfURL | :=) |
19:25.58 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *g* :-)) |
19:26.19 | DukeOfURL | I see I'm driving people off the IRC. ok, enough cat talk |
19:27.23 | Elrond | Next the cat will use the neo to open the bt-powered door. ;) |
19:27.34 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI__ (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
19:28.09 | DukeOfURL | With my cats, it would be the refridgerator door... |
19:29.52 | DukeOfURL | On a serious note... |
19:30.22 | Elrond | Wont be long until they rule the world. :) |
19:30.25 | SpeedEvil | Cat claws are bad for touchscreens. |
19:30.59 | DukeOfURL | I've lost a lot of my hearing, and hearing aids don't filter the ambient (background) noise. The ambient noise is a problem when trying to understand speech. |
19:31.18 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - They'll control the neo by meowing anyway. ;) |
19:31.51 | DukeOfURL | With the Neo and some signal processing, one could filter the ambient noise without having to purchase a $2500 hearing aid. |
19:32.37 | Elrond | DukeOfURL - Don't expect too much from the CPU. It's like a Pentoum at 200MHz or so. |
19:33.03 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-157-055.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
19:33.29 | DukeOfURL | Heh. Are you odl enough to remember the Z80? We did a lot of stuff on that one. |
19:33.36 | DukeOfURL | old |
19:34.08 | koen_ | z80? |
19:34.12 | prpplague | hehe |
19:34.17 | Elrond | koen_ - yeah. ;) |
19:34.18 | koen_ | almost every highschool kid has one nowadays |
19:34.18 | prpplague | koen_: zx81 |
19:34.31 | prpplague | koen_: i have a whole box of those, hehe |
19:34.34 | koen_ | with those TI83 graphing calculators |
19:34.52 | koen | the only assembly I enjoyed writing :) |
19:35.30 | DukeOfURL | address space was 64K |
19:35.36 | Elrond | Hmm. In those days I playd with 8890 (370 clones) running VM/ESX ;o) |
19:35.53 | DukeOfURL | yup. 1ms cycle time. |
19:36.14 | DukeOfURL | s/1ms/1us/ micro sec |
19:36.55 | Elrond | DukeOfURL - Hmm... an order 20 IIR should work out, yes... Don't know if that is good enough filtering. |
19:38.37 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
19:39.08 | DukeOfURL | maybe, is there's any room left on the board, sean could give us a signal processing IC |
19:40.16 | DukeOfURL | Seriously, how many hearing disabled persons would like to use a cell phone? |
19:40.35 | Elrond | I have no idea. |
19:41.20 | Elrond | Who would tune the IIR for them? |
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19:45.52 | tuxperger | ? |
19:48.26 | SpeedEvil | The CPU can be put in both sides. |
19:48.31 | SpeedEvil | And can do pitch bending. |
19:48.49 | SpeedEvil | So if you can't hear high pitched, it can reduce frequency. |
19:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
19:49.56 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yeah. |
19:50.31 | Elrond | tihi, the neo can be used for voice obfuscation ;) |
19:51.03 | buz | uhm |
19:51.16 | buz | isnt the gsm module connected to the microphone directly |
19:51.21 | SpeedEvil | No. |
19:51.29 | Elrond | buz - No. |
19:51.30 | SpeedEvil | It's connected through the sound mixers. |
19:51.37 | buz | but analog yes? |
19:51.48 | Elrond | The gsm is analog, yes. |
19:51.53 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
19:51.54 | tuxperger | window show 2 |
19:52.01 | SpeedEvil | Which is a bit annoying. |
19:52.06 | Elrond | So for any "through CPU", it's always ADC->DAC. |
19:52.24 | SpeedEvil | It'd be nice if we could throw raw 'GSM' data to it. |
19:52.43 | *** join/#openmoko jobi (n=jobi@sipdev.ssvl.kth.se) |
19:53.17 | SpeedEvil | I note that voice codec data is 13K, which with FEC and lots of error coding could be fun. |
19:53.42 | Elrond | FEC? |
19:53.54 | SpeedEvil | Forward Error Correction |
19:54.02 | Elrond | Ahh. |
19:54.13 | SpeedEvil | Basically - you add correction bits, in the knowledge that there will be errors. |
19:54.22 | SpeedEvil | Rather than correct afterwards. |
19:54.28 | Elrond | Yeah, I know. |
19:54.51 | Elrond | Shouldn't libgsm do all that fun for us? |
19:54.57 | *** part/#openmoko tuxperger (n=mv@a88-112-60-192.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
19:55.00 | Elrond | (not libgsmd) |
19:55.12 | SpeedEvil | No - the modem does all of this on its own. |
19:56.09 | Elrond | Yes, I know. |
19:56.40 | Elrond | But IF we could send raw data, libgsm should do the encoding for us. So it should be easy. |
19:56.54 | SpeedEvil | In theory |
19:57.03 | SpeedEvil | the modem may not let us |
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20:01.12 | loufoque | if we could send raw data there would be no purpose to the proprietary libgsm |
20:01.40 | Elrond | loufoque - libgsmd is not proprietary. |
20:02.18 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p5495297C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
20:02.27 | Elrond | At least I would be very surprised, if it was. That would really kill the base point of the phone. |
20:02.31 | loufoque | I didn't write libgsmd |
20:03.37 | Elrond | loufoque - libgsm is in debian main. |
20:03.47 | stefan_schmidt | Anyone tried native (i686) builds? MACHINE=fic-gta01 and qemuarm worked fine with the fixes from the wiki. |
20:04.31 | *** join/#openmoko TarasBulba (n=gorkem@81.214.127.147) |
20:05.08 | loufoque | Elrond: I don't know what the components of the gsm stack is, I just meant that we couldn't send raw data since there was some proprietary things somewhere trying to control what's being sent |
20:05.59 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc_ (n=Zoolooc@p54953C13.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
20:06.33 | Elrond | loufoque - _inside_ the gsm module. Which is outside the cpu. |
20:07.25 | buz | ubuntu seems a wee bit weird |
20:07.34 | buz | where did qemuarm get lost |
20:08.52 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p54952BCF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
20:09.50 | mikesh | counter |
20:09.50 | aloril | P0: a week, a day 15:50:09 (2.660 - 8.660 days); P1: 24.660 - 39.660; P2: 192.660 - 222.660 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (371) |
20:10.54 | greentux | Elrond: dont expect more then 2400bit/s thru speech gsm channel. under best conditions. |
20:11.20 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.144.34) |
20:11.52 | leventhal | hm, that little? I got ~9600 off tdma back in the day |
20:12.13 | greentux | leventhal: via data channel yes. but they talked about the gsm speech channel I assume |
20:12.15 | SpeedEvil | I really doubt 2400. |
20:12.34 | SpeedEvil | The GSM codec is an encryption - for all purposes. |
20:12.48 | SpeedEvil | It converts bit errors mostly into things that sound similar. |
20:12.48 | greentux | SpeedEvil: no that is also some compression |
20:13.34 | SpeedEvil | If you then try to reverse what it sounds like to reconstruct what the non-errored wavelenth was, it gets horribly complex. |
20:14.02 | SpeedEvil | non-errored bitstream |
20:14.21 | greentux | its complex yes. |
20:14.55 | greentux | there is a modem on the market. 2400 bit/s. max. |
20:15.04 | SpeedEvil | Oh - in that case... |
20:15.19 | SpeedEvil | I'm not arguing with extant hardware, that'd be silly :) |
20:15.43 | buz | "people saying it's impossible should not interfere with people doing it" |
20:16.04 | SpeedEvil | 2400 is quite an achievement. |
20:16.16 | greentux | SpeedEvil: you need some DSP or a powerful cpu |
20:16.23 | *** part/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
20:16.24 | SpeedEvil | Lots of. |
20:16.31 | greentux | and all these a/d d/a converter are not very helpful |
20:16.36 | SpeedEvil | True. |
20:16.54 | SpeedEvil | You have to do the 56K - alike thing. |
20:16.58 | goxboxlive | stefan_schmidt: I saw your post at planet-openmoko. On HTC universal we have Openmoko running. I have also managed to receive a call, but we havent got the sounddriver ready yet so there where no sound. |
20:17.22 | SpeedEvil | Especially if you don't have greater than the output of the GSM board A/D than D/A |
20:17.55 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Neat. You really need a complete sound driver or only audio routing. |
20:18.05 | goxboxlive | I have also tried to make calls, but it dies when trying. I have to look further in to it, but anyway openmoko runs ok |
20:18.30 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: On EZX it seems we only need audio routing. BP handles audio on is own. |
20:18.56 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Anyway, one more reason to play with a HTC device at some point. :) |
20:19.00 | goxboxlive | I know, cr2 is looking in to it, and some other guy is trying to make a asoc driver. |
20:19.13 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: nice |
20:19.19 | koen | goxboxlive: I merged in htc-universal support into the xserver startup scripts openmoko uses, so if you're building for the universal, don't use the OE stuff from openmoko svn |
20:19.53 | greentux | SpeedEvil: in german: http://www.virtualuniversity.ch/telekom/modem/20.html |
20:19.59 | goxboxlive | koen: ok |
20:20.15 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: We'll perhaps try a small audio-routing-only hack first and start porting to ASoC afterwards. Audio drivers are still a bit scarry for me. :) |
20:20.29 | goxboxlive | cr2 says the same |
20:20.54 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-19-71.media.mit.edu) |
20:21.02 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: ASoC is the right way, but I never done audio stuff before.:) |
20:21.19 | goxboxlive | we had the same problem with gomunicator and uucp. The soundchip is quite complex on uni |
20:21.25 | goxboxlive | i c |
20:22.04 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Seems sounds chips on phones are always strange. The EZX stuff is... eh ... strange. |
20:22.29 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: What would be the best HTC to play with? |
20:22.29 | goxboxlive | yes i have heard that |
20:22.42 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Will you be at FOSDEM? |
20:22.54 | goxboxlive | Well if you ask me i think the HTC Universal because of it's screen |
20:23.30 | goxboxlive | no, i will not join the FOSDEM. |
20:23.42 | stefan_schmidt | ok, 640x480? |
20:23.45 | goxboxlive | yes |
20:23.47 | stefan_schmidt | It's a pity |
20:23.50 | goxboxlive | and querty |
20:23.56 | stefan_schmidt | usual price? |
20:24.24 | greentux | SpeedEvil: leventhal : in english http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/N.Katugampala/pubs/iee03.pdf part 2 |
20:24.27 | greentux | very interesting |
20:24.28 | goxboxlive | i dont know now, but i guess ebay is a goos place. It's still expensive here in Norway |
20:24.47 | goxboxlive | I mean the only think Universal is missing is gps |
20:24.55 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: OK, I'll take a look. |
20:25.10 | goxboxlive | I have just bought a A780 now |
20:25.17 | goxboxlive | Got it on Ebay |
20:25.18 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: In one week I'll have two GPS phones anyway. ;) |
20:25.23 | goxboxlive | :-) |
20:25.33 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Ah, with GPS this time? |
20:25.37 | goxboxlive | yes |
20:25.39 | goxboxlive | :-) |
20:25.46 | stefan_schmidt | sweet |
20:26.52 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Is that the one you mean? http://cgi.ebay.de/VPA-IV-HTC-Universal-Qtek-9000-neuwertig_W0QQitemZ190085029743QQihZ009QQcategoryZ38331QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem |
20:27.24 | goxboxlive | yes thats the onbe |
20:28.02 | goxboxlive | It comes as diffrents branding, QTEK 9000, I-mate JasJar and so om |
20:28.36 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Not that cheap. Seems I have to wait . :( |
20:29.04 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: A search for QTEK 9000 gives some cheaper results. |
20:29.20 | stefan_schmidt | goxboxlive: Some times branding is funny |
20:29.38 | stefan_schmidt | oh, even umts. cool |
20:29.38 | goxboxlive | :-) yes still expensive. It's succesor is just about to enter the market (with 5" and gps) so i guess it will drop in the next months |
20:29.53 | goxboxlive | everything beside gps and edge |
20:30.27 | stefan_schmidt | nice |
20:30.37 | stefan_schmidt | I'll have a look at it. |
20:30.56 | goxboxlive | http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=HTC_Universal |
20:31.29 | goxboxlive | well, Prison Break is calling. bbl |
20:31.49 | stefan_schmidt | bye |
20:34.14 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc (n=Zoolooc@p54952764.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
20:34.32 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1060 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/linux-gta01_2.6.20.bb: bump to 2.6.20.1 kernel to get nfs bugfix |
20:38.38 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1061 10/trunk/oe/packages/linux/ (3 files in 2 dirs): 2.6.20.1 gets a different bbfile and defconfig |
20:39.36 | *** join/#openmoko pirulo (n=andres_p@65.19.28.123) |
20:45.31 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
20:47.09 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
20:47.38 | LuitvD | jebba: do you think both mounting the .ext2 file and using it in qemu can go wrong? |
20:48.03 | mjr | yes, yes it can |
20:48.28 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@AC9E9EDA.ipt.aol.com) |
20:48.34 | LuitvD | mjr: ah, okay :P |
20:49.14 | mjr | if you want it available on both, use nfs or something over the simulated network |
20:49.35 | LuitvD | :P |
20:50.05 | LuitvD | or just edit the settings in the virtual serial terminal |
20:50.20 | *** join/#openmoko flaviothunder (n=flavio@200.207.54.75) |
20:55.47 | LuitvD | anybody else using the qemuarm build of openmoko? |
20:56.00 | LuitvD | if so, how do I rotate the screen? :P |
20:59.30 | koen | LuitvD: see the developers lists |
20:59.33 | LuitvD | cjb: you have a device already? |
20:59.40 | LuitvD | koen: okay... |
20:59.41 | koen | LuitvD: mickeyl answered that a few hours ago |
20:59.51 | LuitvD | good, |
21:00.00 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
21:00.28 | koen | lists.openmoko.org -> devel -> by date would be faster |
21:01.43 | cjb | LuitvD: yeah, a friend has one and brought it into work. |
21:04.04 | Clint | you and the rest of the channel |
21:04.23 | koen | cjb: did you see the screen in action yet, or was the battery completely dead? |
21:04.55 | cjb | koen: dead so far. apparently it works if you hack the requisite voltage onto the other end of a USB cable, so we'll do that. |
21:07.29 | koen | cjb: yeah, it should trigger the charging circuit if no communication was received in ~30 secs |
21:07.41 | koen | so any 'dumb' usb charger should work |
21:07.58 | Clint | like one for a blackberry? |
21:09.46 | koen | the ones with a wallsocket plug and a usb plug |
21:10.05 | *** join/#openmoko Trular (n=chatzill@ti231110a080-5449.bb.online.no) |
21:10.31 | Clint | too bad i have one of those |
21:10.34 | koen | cjb: does the olpc have bt? |
21:11.56 | roh | koen afaik not |
21:12.07 | koen | it's missing from the spec page |
21:12.15 | Clint | last i heard you need a usb dongle for it |
21:12.29 | buz | what do you need BT for on OLPC |
21:12.46 | koen | to use the neo for internet access :) |
21:12.48 | *** join/#openmoko MDK (n=mdk@cs181209253.pp.htv.fi) |
21:13.03 | mjr | well, you can do that with usb too :] |
21:13.10 | buz | rofl |
21:13.23 | buz | that thing is harder to come by than neos ;) |
21:13.25 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B00B99.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
21:13.41 | koen | especially if I'm stuck in a small seat |
21:13.47 | koen | i.e train and bus |
21:14.17 | roh | koen but as long as http://www.golem.de/0702/50615.html is true... i think it will be a big flop |
21:15.26 | koen | heh |
21:16.56 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
21:18.44 | LuitvD | so... mickeyl built a patch for the qemuarm rotation config... and it needs to be rebuilt to use that? |
21:20.03 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
21:21.13 | parag0n | haha, wtf, sg1 are using alienware laptops |
21:21.28 | parag0n | wrtong room |
21:21.32 | parag0n | but still :P |
21:25.04 | LuitvD | :)_ |
21:27.06 | *** join/#openmoko andymk (n=andy@adsl-static-1-193.uklinux.net) |
21:28.28 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
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21:40.38 | DukeOfURL | Any thoughts on an FSK modem on top of GSM? For short bursts of data? |
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21:42.31 | *** join/#openmoko Zoolooc__ (n=Zoolooc@p54952683.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
21:46.09 | LuitvD | is the TI GPRS module a class-A GPRS device? |
21:47.55 | mjr | apparently B |
21:48.03 | mjr | not sure though |
21:48.35 | LuitvD | class A would be nice :) |
21:48.41 | mjr | well |
21:50.11 | SpeedEvil | DukeOfURL: seee the earlier refereenced PDF |
21:50.47 | DukeOfURL | today? |
21:50.57 | SpeedEvil | yes |
21:51.02 | SpeedEvil | 4 hours ago? |
21:51.05 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
21:51.07 | SpeedEvil | oops |
21:51.16 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
21:51.16 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
21:51.17 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
21:53.37 | DukeOfURL | got it, thx |
21:57.30 | LuitvD | lol, I wonder ... would a USB HSDPA modem work on the gsmd? |
21:59.04 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r_ (n=Rac0r@p5081FEA1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
21:59.31 | DukeOfURL | Just out of curosity, was the previous discussion about encryption or about data over GSM? |
21:59.41 | DukeOfURL | speech encryption? |
22:01.53 | LuitvD | speech encryption I guess... |
22:03.12 | SpeedEvil | It's generic data over GSM voice. |
22:03.22 | SpeedEvil | You can put voice there if you want. |
22:04.36 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
22:05.01 | DukeOfURL | What about DTMF? How does DTMF handle it? |
22:05.12 | DukeOfURL | How does GSM handle DTMF? |
22:05.25 | SpeedEvil | Yes, it can do DTMF |
22:07.15 | anselm | counter? |
22:07.15 | aloril | source: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ; a week, a day 13:52:44 (2.578 - 8.578 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, a day (24.578 - 39.578 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, a day (192.578 - 222.578 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (372) |
22:09.34 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
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22:22.36 | al3x | win 26 |
22:23.13 | koen | loose 38 |
22:24.50 | al3x | win 42 |
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22:34.00 | greentux | dtmf is only via signalling channel done. |
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22:55.49 | CoreDump|home | hi |
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22:58.34 | CoreDump|home | I'm wondering if you can access the serial console via Neo-USB <-> Debug Board <-> Notebook or if you need to take apart the neo and use the "debug-port connector"? The wiki isn't entirely clear on this part. |
22:58.51 | SpeedEvil | Serial via usb works fine. |
22:59.11 | CoreDump|home | SpeedEvil: excellent, thanks =) |
22:59.12 | SpeedEvil | The debug board is only for when you _really_ have problems. |
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23:00.41 | CoreDump|home | so one can indeed access kernel messages and similiar things via Neo's normal USB port? |
23:00.55 | SpeedEvil | I presume so, and do other USB-serial stuff over it. |
23:01.08 | SpeedEvil | I mean serial-console |
23:01.26 | CoreDump|home | righto |
23:01.27 | SpeedEvil | I don't know if you get the messages before the USB subsystem comes up. |
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23:01.50 | CoreDump|home | That's what I was wondering ;) As USB is usually brought up quite late |
23:02.07 | SpeedEvil | Remember - it's a USB gadget, it's not a USB host. |
23:02.15 | SpeedEvil | I don't know where that's brought up. |
23:02.30 | SpeedEvil | s/where/when/ |
23:02.48 | CoreDump|home | yeah, well, we'll see heh |
23:03.23 | SpeedEvil | And if extra debug flex cables'd be available. |
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23:05.12 | CoreDump|home | Someone hinted the P0 phones ship w/ one |
23:05.24 | SpeedEvil | Someone stated flat out that they did. |
23:05.38 | SpeedEvil | I don't remember if it was here or the ML. |
23:05.39 | rwhitby | CoreDump|home: it was stated by Werner on the list as a direct answer to my direct question :-) |
23:05.48 | SpeedEvil | Optional extra for P1. |
23:07.05 | LuitvD | hmm |
23:07.21 | LuitvD | but for how much? with the P1 devices... |
23:07.39 | vmaster | in most cases you wont have to use the debug board |
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23:07.50 | vmaster | it is of zero use for application development |
23:08.00 | vmaster | people have done driver development without JTAG debugging for ages |
23:08.09 | CoreDump|home | righto |
23:08.34 | SpeedEvil | What's brought out on the debug board? AIUI, there is JTAG, and a serial port. Is it more than that? |
23:08.40 | vmaster | of course, using the OpenOCD is the right thing (tm) ;) - but maybe I'm biased |
23:09.32 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: a USB hub I guess... |
23:09.58 | SpeedEvil | I meant on the connector |
23:10.15 | SpeedEvil | the board has - IIRC a parallel port - sorta - and a serial port and hub. |
23:10.47 | Elrond | counter |
23:10.47 | aloril | P0: a week, a day 12:49:12 (2.534 - 8.534 days); P1: 24.534 - 39.534; P2: 192.534 - 222.534 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (373) |
23:11.16 | SpeedEvil | the parallel port talks to the JTAG bits, and the serial port to the internal serial port. |
23:11.29 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: Only v1 |
23:11.45 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: v2 uses a ftdi chip for jatg and serial |
23:11.53 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
23:11.58 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: USB connection to host |
23:12.06 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: Power over usb |
23:12.08 | SpeedEvil | I'd forgotten aout the spiffier FTDU chips |
23:12.22 | Elrond | Will P0-people get that board? |
23:12.26 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: and a usb hub the psb |
23:12.39 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I hope so. :) |
23:12.53 | vmaster | 00:05 < rwhitby> CoreDump|home: it was stated by Werner on the list as a direct answer to my direct question :-) |
23:13.01 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Not complete sure. But I think it is included. |
23:13.14 | vmaster | rwhitby gave that answer 8 minutes ago |
23:13.15 | stefan_schmidt | hi vmaster |
23:13.19 | vmaster | hey stefan_schmidt |
23:13.19 | stefan_schmidt | ah |
23:13.32 | stefan_schmidt | So it should be in |
23:13.41 | stefan_schmidt | Will see in ~a week |
23:13.50 | CoreDump|home | counter |
23:13.51 | aloril | P0: a week, a day 12:46:08 (2.532 - 8.532 days); P1: 24.532 - 39.532; P2: 192.532 - 222.532 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (374) |
23:13.55 | stefan_schmidt | vmaster: Promoting OpenOCD or just hanging around? |
23:14.05 | CoreDump|home | lets hope the hardware is ready in days =) |
23:14.07 | Elrond | a week + shipping + fun at customs. ;) |
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23:14.43 | vmaster | stefan_schmidt: waiting for someone to mention the list of known bugs that's on the wiki - I believe I fixed the libftdi initialization bug, and I've never heard about the CP15 problem mentioned |
23:15.45 | vmaster | stefan_schmidt: well, and a bit of hanging around, as openmoko seems to be /really/ interesting |
23:16.32 | stefan_schmidt | vmaster: hmm, LaF0rge and werner doing most of the system level stuff. Would be best to ask what the bugs refer to. |
23:16.32 | Elrond | LuitvD - I guess for the full 40 days... they will only ship, when the base software on the phone is stable enough for the average hacker. |
23:16.59 | LuitvD | Elrond: well... what makes you think the P0 isn't 'stable' ? |
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23:17.36 | stefan_schmidt | LuitvD: I'm not even sure if I need to flash the first image myself. :) |
23:17.48 | LuitvD | :P |
23:18.09 | LuitvD | stefan_schmidt: you mean flash through the development-board? |
23:18.50 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03werner * r1062 10/developers/werner/notes/ (. openocd): My OpenOCD setup and usage notes. |
23:18.53 | stefan_schmidt | LuitvD: Perhaps. I will see when the box arrives |
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23:19.19 | stefan_schmidt | vmaster: heh, werner reads our minds... |
23:19.44 | vmaster | stefan_schmidt: heh, do you happen to know where /developers/werner/notes/ is? |
23:19.58 | stefan_schmidt | https://svn.openmoko.org/developers/werner/notes/openocd |
23:19.58 | LuitvD | please do take many pictures :) |
23:20.13 | vmaster | thanks |
23:20.27 | stefan_schmidt | LuitvD: http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/ is not enough? |
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23:20.52 | stefan_schmidt | btw, we not even know which color we'll get |
23:21.12 | LuitvD | stefan_schmidt: last time I checked there were no images with both the lid on and the screen on ;P |
23:21.33 | LuitvD | that's what I'm waiting for, a picture of the hardware and the software together |
23:21.40 | CoreDump|home | puuulleeeeezz not the orange thingy |
23:21.43 | stefan_schmidt | LuitvD: I'm pretty sure the will be *many* images once the first boxes arrives. |
23:21.45 | CoreDump|home | ;) |
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23:22.13 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: already have good black paint... |
23:22.14 | CoreDump|home | the black one looks sexy |
23:22.18 | LuitvD | yeah... |
23:22.26 | LuitvD | it looks awesome |
23:22.31 | Elrond | LuitvD - Well: The average hacker probably will not have the devel-board. Take this into account. |
23:22.33 | LuitvD | though the white-orange is nice too... |
23:22.39 | CoreDump|home | right |
23:22.51 | LuitvD | and the hardware is the same... |
23:22.57 | LuitvD | it's the inside that counts :) |
23:23.10 | CoreDump|home | yeah. |
23:23.19 | CoreDump|home | shiny new hardware =D |
23:23.25 | LuitvD | (just like my desktop computer... it's ugly as hell, and I'm very happy with what it does :) |
23:24.06 | SpeedEvil | My desktop is currently in an advanced composite ceramic case. |
23:24.20 | SpeedEvil | (AKA on top of a floor tile, on some bits of wood) |
23:24.29 | CoreDump|home | hehe |
23:24.30 | LuitvD | if there'll be no black devices before P2 I guess I'll still buy a P1 device, and paint it myself :) |
23:24.41 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: lol |
23:24.41 | Elrond | hihi |
23:24.43 | SpeedEvil | Paint sucks though. |
23:24.50 | vmaster | stefan_schmidt: heh, that's a serious case of mind reading - he ain't in this channel |
23:24.51 | SpeedEvil | Leather might work. |
23:24.52 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: not if you buy the right paint |
23:25.03 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: or suede :D |
23:25.10 | Elrond | LuitvD - I guess, they will offer both for P1. If you pay bugs, they can really offer some color. |
23:25.27 | LuitvD | Elrond: yeah, guess so... but what if ;) |
23:25.34 | SpeedEvil | Through coloured is always better. |
23:25.36 | SpeedEvil | IMO. |
23:25.42 | SpeedEvil | Even though you don't get metallic. |
23:25.50 | SpeedEvil | Well - unless it's stainless. |
23:25.54 | stefan_schmidt | vmaster: heh |
23:26.55 | Elrond | Are there more pics on the wiki? ;) |
23:27.07 | LuitvD | hmm, it could be cool to have uncoloured plastic fronts... |
23:27.44 | SpeedEvil | Uncoloured has issues. |
23:27.45 | SpeedEvil | The colourant tends to mask 'functional' additives. |
23:27.45 | LuitvD | why? |
23:27.45 | SpeedEvil | That add strength to the plastic, impact resistance and stuff. |
23:27.54 | Elrond | Ahh. |
23:27.55 | SpeedEvil | That's why you tend to get translucent at best. |
23:28.05 | LuitvD | i mean blank, not transparent... |
23:28.10 | SpeedEvil | Or really scratchy - polycarbonate. |
23:28.15 | SpeedEvil | blank? |
23:28.21 | LuitvD | just plain white, or some other easily dyable color |
23:28.24 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
23:28.30 | LuitvD | yeah, blank, no added pigments |
23:28.36 | SpeedEvil | Plastic doesn't really dye. |
23:28.39 | LuitvD | so you can dye it yourself.. |
23:28.53 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: candypaint works good enaugh for me :) |
23:28.54 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't have pores for the dye to sink into generally. |
23:29.38 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: if you heat up the plastic a little, it'll become soft |
23:30.01 | LuitvD | (not all plastics, only some) |
23:30.24 | SpeedEvil | Yes, there are ways to paint plastics. My problem is that it always wears off, then looks horrible. |
23:30.32 | SpeedEvil | Maybe I just abuse stuff too much. |
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23:31.14 | LuitvD | lol |
23:31.24 | CoreDump|home | hehe you guys should see my poor Collie Zaurus |
23:31.27 | LuitvD | anyways, everybody likes the black+silver version |
23:31.28 | LuitvD | :P |
23:31.35 | CoreDump|home | There basically no color left =) |
23:31.41 | LuitvD | CoreDump|home: show us :) |
23:31.48 | CoreDump|home | no cam |
23:31.52 | CoreDump|home | hmm |
23:32.09 | CoreDump|home | maybe tomorrow I'll make a picture |
23:32.15 | LuitvD | my Palm T|E2 has a kind of bare patch on the back :P |
23:32.33 | SpeedEvil | I had bad experiences painting a 486/75 laptop. The oven I put it in to dry the paint malfunctioned, and melted most of the case. |
23:32.33 | LuitvD | the paint ruffend up, and finally chipped off |
23:32.47 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: lol, too hot |
23:33.36 | LuitvD | bye :) |
23:33.44 | CoreDump|home | n8 LuitvD |
23:33.55 | SpeedEvil | WAve. |
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23:34.54 | aevin | i read about the flash partitioning and the BBT (bad block table) in the wiki. why is it desirable to distinguish between factory-bad flash blocks and worn-out flash blocks? |
23:36.08 | Elrond | aevin - I wondered that too. Have no answer. |
23:37.37 | aevin | i guess there is a reason since the partitioning uses the last working blocks for BBT rather than storing the non-working blocks in the OOB. |
23:37.59 | Elrond | Weee... I didn't know, there is a standard for firmware update in usb devices... Cool! |
23:38.45 | aevin | you mean on all usb devices? do you think most devices implements it? |
23:38.54 | Elrond | I'll have fun and kick some stupid vendors at it and ask them, why they don't support a standard. ;) |
23:39.07 | Elrond | aevin - Not many implement it. sadly. |
23:39.11 | SpeedEvil | IIRC the factory bad bad blocks are marked specially at the factory - the whole block is locked off. |
23:40.34 | Elrond | aevin - See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/USB_DFU |
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