| 00:00.07 | denis^da | yeah I know |
| 00:00.10 | LuitvD | lol, i think the device is even less wide then my pda... |
| 00:00.11 | denis^da | ok ok I have to buy it :D |
| 00:00.33 | denis^da | yeaht it is a bit less wide than the Palm TX |
| 00:00.43 | sixfeet | the should start selling |
| 00:00.47 | denis^da | and thinner than the SE 700 I hava |
| 00:00.54 | denis^da | ja sollten sie :D |
| 00:00.55 | LuitvD | denis^da: SE700? |
| 00:01.08 | denis^da | yeah Sony Ericsson 700i @ LuitvD |
| 00:01.13 | LuitvD | ah :P |
| 00:01.31 | sixfeet | ale büchse :P |
| 00:01.35 | sixfeet | +t |
| 00:02.02 | denis^da | haha damals war es keine alte Büchse |
| 00:02.05 | denis^da | naja ok :D |
| 00:02.08 | LuitvD | denis^da: lol, google shows me the consulta se 700 :P |
| 00:02.08 | LuitvD | http://images.hifishop.cz/Orig_190/consulta_se_700.jpg |
| 00:02.10 | LuitvD | :P |
| 00:02.33 | LuitvD | that's a nice phone, that 700i :| |
| 00:02.40 | sixfeet | meine samsung knäcke hat garnix |
| 00:02.54 | sixfeet | shg a80 oder so ;) |
| 00:02.57 | denis^da | http://www.xonio.com/features/feature_12356322.html |
| 00:03.31 | sixfeet | loool @ LuitvD |
| 00:03.36 | denis^da | eigentlich wollte ich ja mal ein kleines Handy aber wo ich nu den Palm ablösen kann und endlich Linux haben kann, nehm ich doch glatt wieder ein größeres |
| 00:03.59 | LuitvD | sixfeet: try running linux on that se 700 :P |
| 00:04.03 | sixfeet | nice to send sms (typo-like) |
| 00:04.07 | denis^da | one device is much better than two _> |
| 00:04.26 | LuitvD | denis^da: well, in most appliances, yes |
| 00:04.28 | denis^da | without a touchscreen it sucks :> |
| 00:04.33 | sixfeet | denis^da, aber mit den features is das ok |
| 00:04.45 | denis^da | sixfeet, definitiv :> |
| 00:04.55 | sixfeet | ok wifi fehlt leider noch |
| 00:05.07 | denis^da | joa aber das zieht halt Strom wie Hölle |
| 00:05.26 | sixfeet | per taste anschalten wenn mans braucht |
| 00:05.31 | denis^da | mein Palm TX is mit Wifi so schnell leer |
| 00:05.41 | denis^da | switching |
| 00:05.44 | denis^da | to english |
| 00:05.45 | denis^da | ;) |
| 00:05.49 | CoreDump|home | ;) |
| 00:06.13 | jebba | why would it have to be an english-only channel? hmm. bits are free. ;) |
| 00:06.15 | LuitvD | denis^da: yeah, wifi really drowns your battery |
| 00:06.22 | SpeedEvil | Bits are not free. |
| 00:06.32 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: not every bit... |
| 00:06.36 | SpeedEvil | Non-reversible computation has a finite energy equivalent per bit. |
| 00:06.37 | jebba | well, i think a few german works are near enough ;) |
| 00:06.48 | accumulator | would be nice to have a solar panel on the back of the neo... |
| 00:06.53 | accumulator | to power wifi |
| 00:06.56 | LuitvD | :P |
| 00:07.01 | SpeedEvil | This means that you can put a small dollar amount on the bit. |
| 00:07.01 | jebba | accumulator, you had me with the first line |
| 00:07.04 | sixfeet | ar=armenien? |
| 00:07.04 | denis^da | yeah that would be nice :> |
| 00:07.06 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 00:07.13 | denis^da | but for what price ;) |
| 00:07.19 | SpeedEvil | The problem with that is that when it's sunny, the sun is shining. |
| 00:07.27 | SpeedEvil | And when the sun is shining, stuff gets hot. |
| 00:07.27 | LuitvD | you'd have to hold the device in a quite odd way to have any profit of it |
| 00:07.36 | accumulator | that's not a problem :) |
| 00:07.40 | SpeedEvil | Leaving your neo in the hot sun is not a good idea. |
| 00:07.40 | jebba | solar could be part of a larger add-on back cover |
| 00:08.01 | denis^da | ahhh thats SpeedEvil from the wiki :> |
| 00:08.04 | SpeedEvil | Say 50mm*50mm solar cell, that's 1/400th of a square meter. |
| 00:08.18 | LuitvD | jebba: yeah, but how would you have to use your device to get the solar cell to pick up some sunlight? :P |
| 00:08.23 | denis^da | -that +there is |
| 00:08.33 | sixfeet | yeah and a vacuum-cleaner inside |
| 00:08.38 | SpeedEvil | Which intercepts around a couple of watts of sunlight, which converts to maybe a third of a watt of electricity. |
| 00:08.48 | jebba | ok, i'll just be content with it as a beer opener ;) |
| 00:08.56 | sixfeet | what the hell should be in a phone? |
| 00:09.03 | SpeedEvil | Everything. |
| 00:09.13 | SpeedEvil | The TARDIS module needs perfecting. |
| 00:09.13 | accumulator | my 24" flat panel |
| 00:09.18 | LuitvD | jebba: i'd rather have a modified back-panel to host a full-size SD card then a modified backpanel to host beer opener :P |
| 00:09.22 | jebba | a complete workstation you doc into a panel & connect keyboard. ;) |
| 00:09.25 | parag0n | jebba, screw the beer opener, you want a microbrewery |
| 00:09.33 | jebba | heh |
| 00:09.39 | sixfeet | my digicam makes better pics and i try to phone with this thing |
| 00:09.41 | SpeedEvil | The back panel to do a full-size SD is quite simple. |
| 00:09.50 | accumulator | I want a cigarette lighter in it. and a beer opener too |
| 00:09.59 | SpeedEvil | It's just a flat cable, that slots into the existing SD socket, and connects to a larger socket. |
| 00:10.23 | LuitvD | accumulator: I want a deodorant-spray in it (A) |
| 00:10.29 | accumulator | ehehe! |
| 00:10.32 | accumulator | good one |
| 00:10.38 | SpeedEvil | To do more requires USB, which would be a whole lot nicer with an internal copy of the external USB connector. |
| 00:10.55 | LuitvD | accumulator: for 2 purposes... smell good, and make massive flames :) |
| 00:10.55 | sixfeet | look at most tests ... the telephon options aren't usefull for them .. but games aso |
| 00:11.00 | CoreDump|home | IMO the neo got the best hardware (except WiFi of course) covered. From what I read, a faster CPU would have been nice |
| 00:11.20 | SpeedEvil | Well - recent reports coming in to this channel indicate that video works. |
| 00:11.21 | jebba | i have a flashlight in my crappy fone and it's really convenient... Though the LCD with a 640x480 white screen may be a flashlight itself. |
| 00:11.25 | accumulator | LuitvD: deodorant and lighter in one |
| 00:11.26 | sixfeet | CoreDump|home, full ak |
| 00:11.37 | LuitvD | accumulator: precisely |
| 00:11.51 | SpeedEvil | 24fps half-resolution mpeg4 ffmpeg on stock mplayer with no sound. |
| 00:12.01 | LuitvD | accumulator: I'll build an API for that :P |
| 00:12.03 | parag0n | SpeedEvil, do people make microsd to sd adaptors? |
| 00:12.09 | jebba | does this ARM chip have any mpeg accelleration built in? |
| 00:12.14 | SpeedEvil | parag0n: not that I'm aware of. |
| 00:12.17 | SpeedEvil | jebba: no. |
| 00:12.43 | LuitvD | isn't the purpose of each pin exactly the same on microsd as on SD ? |
| 00:12.44 | SpeedEvil | parag0n: it's not a complex product to make, I'd probably make one from a microSD card, butchered. |
| 00:12.45 | accumulator | echo 1 > /sys/flamthrower/enabled |
| 00:12.50 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: yes. |
| 00:13.08 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: they do make microSD > SD adapters... |
| 00:13.22 | LuitvD | they give you one with almost every micro-SD card :P |
| 00:13.24 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: Sure - but probably not that will fit onto the phone. |
| 00:13.27 | accumulator | maybe a couple of grams of high explosives, and a detonator.. might be nice against thieves |
| 00:13.31 | LuitvD | accumulator: lol :) |
| 00:13.55 | LuitvD | accumulator: you've already got all the ingredients for that... |
| 00:14.05 | LuitvD | accumulator: a Lithium-Ion battery ;) |
| 00:14.10 | SpeedEvil | Alas, the flamethrower thing could be too close to home. |
| 00:14.41 | accumulator | hehe the Nukia battery |
| 00:14.55 | LuitvD | echo "SIG_OVERHEAT" > /sys/battery/chargestatus |
| 00:14.55 | LuitvD | :P |
| 00:15.00 | LuitvD | and woosh |
| 00:15.02 | LuitvD | :) |
| 00:15.15 | SpeedEvil | It's gotta make that 'exploding phaser' sound. |
| 00:15.26 | LuitvD | accumulator: got a nice vid of a laptop battery going *woosh* |
| 00:15.43 | accumulator | LuitvD: have seen some on youtube |
| 00:16.03 | SpeedEvil | Just wish that fuel cells were mature. |
| 00:16.08 | accumulator | jep |
| 00:16.11 | accumulator | me too |
| 00:16.15 | LuitvD | this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qmPm-YV9vdA&eurl= |
| 00:16.36 | LuitvD | :) that one is SOOO NICE |
| 00:17.00 | *** part/#openmoko paulproteus (n=paulprot@pool-151-196-232-71.balt.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:17.33 | SpeedEvil | Hmm - interest list up to 30 in a day. |
| 00:17.49 | LuitvD | I hope that'll never happen to my devices... :P |
| 00:18.29 | accumulator | very nice |
| 00:19.03 | accumulator | 1200mAh is pretty standard |
| 00:19.28 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning size-wise. |
| 00:19.37 | SpeedEvil | As in - is it widely available on ebay. |
| 00:19.45 | SpeedEvil | Or $40 per from FIC. |
| 00:19.51 | accumulator | I know. 1200mAh comes in lots of sizes |
| 00:20.10 | accumulator | that's what I meant :) |
| 00:21.18 | LuitvD | what battery unit goes into the FIC neo? |
| 00:21.32 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 00:21.37 | LuitvD | could it be a HL-5001? |
| 00:21.40 | SpeedEvil | I can measure the battery off the image. |
| 00:21.56 | LuitvD | looks like the battery I've got in my camera... |
| 00:22.04 | LuitvD | got a spare battery for that too :) |
| 00:22.33 | LuitvD | (those spares are only 30 bucks... hope the neo spare-batteries are about the same price... |
| 00:23.28 | LuitvD | the wiki says nothing about the battery AFAIK |
| 00:25.01 | LuitvD | all I found out is that it's a 1200mAh battery... |
| 00:25.05 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 00:25.21 | LuitvD | and either lithium-ion or lithium-polymer... |
| 00:25.45 | fluffs | or lithium-citrate... perfect to keep away the mood swings |
| 00:26.07 | accumulator | always happy |
| 00:26.40 | SpeedEvil | I make the battery 52*38mm. |
| 00:26.43 | SpeedEvil | +-1mm |
| 00:27.12 | SpeedEvil | Assuming the exterior dimensions of the neo I found are correct - at least the X and Y dimensions cross-check to within 1% |
| 00:27.14 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: what, you've got a device there? |
| 00:27.18 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 00:27.28 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: then how do you know? :S |
| 00:27.30 | SpeedEvil | I've got a case image, the published size of the device, and xv. |
| 00:27.34 | LuitvD | PCB layout? |
| 00:27.38 | LuitvD | ah |
| 00:27.39 | LuitvD | okay |
| 00:28.10 | LuitvD | hmm, it's about the standard size of a 1-cell Lithium battery |
| 00:28.11 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: Why sleep, you're in a good sending-patches mood. :) |
| 00:28.27 | LuitvD | mine's 35x53 |
| 00:29.08 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: You think about gta01 mach in 2.6.21? |
| 00:29.52 | SpeedEvil | Does the connector to yours start approximately 3mm in from the edge, with around a 2.5mm edge spacing, with three vertical contacs? |
| 00:30.11 | fluffs | stefan_schmidt: possibly |
| 00:30.23 | fluffs | certainly the bits that 2.6.21 is going to support |
| 00:30.25 | SpeedEvil | The 53 number is much harder than the 38 - I'm assuming things there. |
| 00:30.27 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: would be nice |
| 00:30.39 | SpeedEvil | Anyway. |
| 00:31.02 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: 3 contacts, first one starts 5mm from the edge, 3 mm wide each, 3mm spacing |
| 00:31.12 | SpeedEvil | Interesting. |
| 00:31.21 | SpeedEvil | possibly a match. |
| 00:31.25 | LuitvD | though i think the contacts are on the wrong side of the battery XD |
| 00:31.32 | SpeedEvil | Oh well. |
| 00:31.39 | LuitvD | *takes a good look at the pictures |
| 00:32.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 00:32.18 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: meh, contacts on the wrong side :P |
| 00:32.29 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: just as I thought... |
| 00:32.52 | SpeedEvil | I suppose real volume has hit when compatible batteries pop up on ebay for $5. |
| 00:33.55 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: you can always try to build your own batteries... |
| 00:34.31 | Elrond | So we know, wether these are standard batts or neo-specific ones? |
| 00:34.37 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 00:34.41 | LuitvD | i mean... get some cheap, high-capacity li-po cell from china, make a good housing for it, and you've got yourself a battery |
| 00:35.27 | LuitvD | Elrond: no battery is device-specific... it's the hull that makes it device specific... |
| 00:35.44 | Elrond | From some part of the wiki I guessed up, that the battery has some internal safety sircuits, so that developers can't break it too easily. |
| 00:35.59 | LuitvD | the internal circuitry is all the same, the cell in it is the same in every batt... |
| 00:36.22 | LuitvD | Elrond: all batts have internal safety circuitry |
| 00:36.28 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. 3*AAA batteries fit in the battery space, with around 4mm sticking out. |
| 00:36.45 | SpeedEvil | s/have/should have/ |
| 00:36.50 | LuitvD | alphaone: a notebook with a 12Ah lead-acid batt? :| |
| 00:37.02 | SpeedEvil | The cells come in _many_ sizes. |
| 00:37.19 | SpeedEvil | Some more common than others. |
| 00:37.21 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: not that much... |
| 00:37.48 | LuitvD | the RC-battery pack for my robot as exactly the same cells as my camera batteries |
| 00:37.51 | alphaone | LuitvD: Yeah, the old LiIon died on me so I soldered long wires on the plus and minus contacts of the notebook and had a (heavy) battery in my backpack. |
| 00:38.11 | alphaone | But it lasted for hours |
| 00:38.12 | SpeedEvil | There are common - cheaper - cells, though you can get any size if you've got the volume. |
| 00:38.21 | LuitvD | alphaone: that's nice :) what's the lifetime of a notebook on that beast? |
| 00:39.18 | alphaone | LuitvD: About 7h, but that was on my old Sony Vaio. I didn't want to ruin my X40 yet :-) |
| 00:39.19 | SpeedEvil | Will run my laptop+ADSL modem for a couple of weeks :) |
| 00:39.20 | denis^da | good night guys |
| 00:39.41 | accumulator | night |
| 00:39.42 | LuitvD | alphaone: how nice :) |
| 00:39.44 | SpeedEvil | Good night. |
| 00:39.47 | alphaone | And the extended battery gives me the same lifetime - at reduced weight. |
| 00:39.47 | Elrond | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Neo1973_Battery_Charger |
| 00:39.48 | LuitvD | denis^da: 'night |
| 00:39.58 | LuitvD | zu spät |
| 00:40.01 | Elrond | The warning box suggests, that they have done some battery internal stuff? |
| 00:40.16 | LuitvD | Elrond: that's a non-specific warinng.. |
| 00:40.29 | LuitvD | lol, my n went for a walk? :P |
| 00:40.31 | alphaone | LuitvD: The vaio had only 1.5 - 2h |
| 00:40.51 | LuitvD | alphaone: most laptops do... but how on earth did you kill a sony vaio battery? :S |
| 00:41.09 | LuitvD | alphaone: thought those were indestructible |
| 00:41.15 | leventhal | i thought those were the exploding ones |
| 00:41.23 | Elrond | *G* |
| 00:41.23 | SpeedEvil | There needs to be an option to enable charging from 'dumb' USB hosts. |
| 00:41.28 | accumulator | no those were the Dell ones |
| 00:41.34 | alphaone | LuitvD: By using it. It was more that 3 years old by that time |
| 00:41.36 | leventhal | Sony manufactuered the dell ones |
| 00:41.38 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - 100mA. |
| 00:41.42 | leventhal | manufactured them too |
| 00:41.49 | alphaone | No that was before Sony made them explosive |
| 00:41.53 | SpeedEvil | By that I mean 'USB chargers' |
| 00:41.57 | LuitvD | alphaone: how do you use your batteries? discharging down to 40%? |
| 00:42.05 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - And you can force 500mA. |
| 00:42.26 | alphaone | At the end the battery was barely enough to keep the Vaio in suspend for more than 1 day |
| 00:42.29 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:42.30 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - there have been really annoying devices that would not charge at all. |
| 00:42.33 | LuitvD | Elrond: you should try getting 0,5A out of a single USB connector :P |
| 00:42.41 | SpeedEvil | It's not hard. |
| 00:42.44 | SpeedEvil | Most will supply it. |
| 00:42.53 | LuitvD | for a second or two... yes |
| 00:42.55 | LuitvD | :P |
| 00:42.55 | SpeedEvil | Most decent hardware that is. |
| 00:42.59 | SpeedEvil | 0.5A is the spec. |
| 00:43.04 | Elrond | According to the wiki, every desktop pc gives 500mA on primary usb ports. |
| 00:43.11 | LuitvD | no, 0,25A should be the spec |
| 00:43.20 | SpeedEvil | 0.25A however is not the spec. |
| 00:43.27 | alphaone | LuitvD: More like down to 10-20% |
| 00:43.48 | LuitvD | alphaone: 40% is the optimal charge to go back up again |
| 00:43.58 | LuitvD | and it's the best charge to store it ;) |
| 00:44.04 | Elrond | according to OM-wiki, 100mA are there always. so 250mA negotiable sounds stupid. |
| 00:44.04 | SpeedEvil | In the fridge. |
| 00:44.10 | LuitvD | 40% in the fridge, indeed |
| 00:44.15 | alphaone | LuitvD: Okay, will keep that in mind. |
| 00:44.41 | LuitvD | if y're not using a lithium battery for a while, it's best to discharge to 40% |
| 00:44.46 | fluffs | 500mA per port... we always fit current limiters to our USB ports,m which tend to trip at 550mA to 590mA |
| 00:45.00 | LuitvD | it could increase the lifetime by years :) |
| 00:45.14 | SpeedEvil | Many '4 port' cheap powered hubs or PC cards don't do seperate, but fit a 2A polyfuse. |
| 00:45.22 | SpeedEvil | PCI cards. |
| 00:45.28 | alphaone | Does anyone know how the power charger (500mA) is detected? |
| 00:45.38 | LuitvD | alphaone: it isn't |
| 00:45.41 | sixfeet | ecerything only if the supply supports it ? |
| 00:46.14 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 00:46.17 | SpeedEvil | sixfeet: Generally - the worst - the absolute worst that can happen if it goes wrong is the power supply current limits, or the USB bus powers off. |
| 00:46.25 | LuitvD | alphaone: you just enable it if you're certain about the possibility of dragging 500mA |
| 00:46.28 | Elrond | 500mA is in the spec, it seems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USB#Power_supply |
| 00:46.55 | LuitvD | "Initially, a device is only allowed to draw 100 mA." |
| 00:46.56 | LuitvD | :P |
| 00:46.56 | alphaone | The wiki says the openmoko only drains 100 or 200 mA at the beginning and then negotiates via USB |
| 00:46.59 | SpeedEvil | Unless you've bought a belkin Tetrahub, that decides it'd like to put out 9V. Then you get flame. |
| 00:47.01 | SpeedEvil | :( |
| 00:47.13 | alphaone | SpeedEvil: Whoa |
| 00:47.15 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: what? :| |
| 00:47.18 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: nice... |
| 00:47.26 | SpeedEvil | I only lost a wifi dongle. |
| 00:47.30 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: how on earth do they sell those things? :P |
| 00:47.49 | alphaone | Maybe they also sell new wifi dongles :-) |
| 00:48.36 | LuitvD | alphaone: lol |
| 00:48.36 | sixfeet | reboot test |
| 00:49.02 | SpeedEvil | Then there was the other 'broken by design' hub. The power supply '5V 0.5A - sort of - outputted 5V. At rest it was 6V, with 0.5V of ripple. With 0.3A of load, it varied from 2.5-4V at 100Hz. There was no input filtering capacitor. |
| 00:49.18 | alphaone | heh |
| 00:49.28 | Elrond | alphaone - Yes. But you can force 500mA on the neo. |
| 00:49.40 | alphaone | Elrond: Right |
| 00:50.16 | SpeedEvil | plugging the neo into a suspended USB bus and doing that will stop the suspend state though. |
| 00:50.34 | SpeedEvil | Suspend is 'trickle' power to hubs to keep state and monitor plug/unplug. |
| 00:50.45 | alphaone | I was thinking about a lead acid battery powered mobile charger |
| 00:51.01 | SpeedEvil | Car charger makes sense. |
| 00:51.06 | Elrond | I wonder how those usb chargers on other phones work? |
| 00:51.12 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 00:51.15 | alphaone | I guess it would be okay if I have to enable 500mA drain on the neo |
| 00:51.20 | SpeedEvil | A substantial fraction of them have a resistor. |
| 00:51.28 | SpeedEvil | And that's it. |
| 00:51.39 | Elrond | I mean, customers don't select "I really use the supplied charger, go for 500mA"-option on the phone. |
| 00:51.43 | alphaone | Motorola's is that way |
| 00:52.10 | alphaone | With a resistor I mean |
| 00:52.13 | LuitvD | hmm, maybe it's nice to build a docking-station for the neo... |
| 00:52.23 | SpeedEvil | The charger just treats the USB as a source of 5V, and draws as much as it needs. |
| 00:52.25 | LuitvD | with some extra usb-functions :) |
| 00:52.27 | alphaone | That would be nice |
| 00:52.38 | SpeedEvil | I suggested that in the expansion dock article. |
| 00:52.43 | LuitvD | it'd be a very easy one... I could even make one myself |
| 00:52.51 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: where? |
| 00:52.55 | SpeedEvil | Large contacts on the back, to support a drop-in dock |
| 00:52.56 | gabaug | the MokoMakefile seems to take a very long time to setup...anybody considered posting a tgz of it to get people launched? |
| 00:53.41 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Wishlist:Expansion_Back |
| 00:53.47 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - So those phones wouldn't like your 9V-kill'em hub? ;) |
| 00:55.22 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: I think I can even create that myself... maybe even get the USB leads down there... |
| 00:56.01 | Elrond | Other thing: Are 100mA better for battery life? |
| 00:56.08 | LuitvD | Elrond: yes |
| 00:56.22 | LuitvD | slow charging is better |
| 00:56.54 | LuitvD | the slower you charge, the more charges you can get in there |
| 00:57.07 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: Yeah - hacking it is easy. Making it so that users can easily change the backs is harder. |
| 00:57.16 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: lol, true |
| 00:57.36 | LuitvD | Elrond: also, discharging slowly is also better then draining rapidly ;) |
| 00:57.38 | Elrond | LuitvD - Hmm, so I will like the 100mA charging... despite 12h. ;) |
| 00:57.59 | LuitvD | Elrond: I think I'll just charge overnight... |
| 00:58.07 | LuitvD | once in 3 days or something... |
| 00:58.18 | Elrond | I hope it's more than 3 days... |
| 00:58.21 | SpeedEvil | Have there been any mentions of current battery life? |
| 00:58.22 | LuitvD | every time I notice that the battery level is below 40% |
| 00:58.52 | LuitvD | Elrond: it's better to make the battery level hover around 40% then to fully charge and discharge ;) |
| 00:59.33 | LuitvD | though, it's always good to have a nice charge, so draining to 40%, and fully charging again would be the nicest option |
| 01:00.28 | Elrond | Yep. And that should hopefully last a week. |
| 01:00.33 | Elrond | But I doubt it. :-| |
| 01:00.34 | LuitvD | always usable (you practically never run out of battery...) and good for your battery too... |
| 01:01.19 | LuitvD | Elrond: who cares... you come home, look at the battery status and decide wether to drop it in the charger, or just drop it on your desk... |
| 01:01.21 | SpeedEvil | For the 'one LED on in the corner of the backlight' idea. |
| 01:01.44 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: why would you want to disassemble? |
| 01:01.51 | LuitvD | why one led? |
| 01:01.52 | LuitvD | what? |
| 01:01.55 | LuitvD | where? :P |
| 01:02.03 | SpeedEvil | Turn on one LED in the corner of the backlight. |
| 01:02.03 | Elrond | hehe |
| 01:02.09 | SpeedEvil | To add status information. |
| 01:02.15 | LuitvD | hmm... |
| 01:02.15 | SpeedEvil | Rather than having to turn on them all. |
| 01:02.17 | LuitvD | a red one? |
| 01:02.26 | SpeedEvil | No, one of the backlight LEDs. |
| 01:02.31 | LuitvD | lol |
| 01:02.32 | Elrond | LuitvD - I always drop my phone on the desk. ;) |
| 01:02.37 | LuitvD | ah, okay |
| 01:02.50 | LuitvD | Elrond: lol, and if it's drained? |
| 01:02.57 | LuitvD | drop it on your desk and plug it in? |
| 01:02.58 | Elrond | LuitvD - Does the number of charging reduce battery life? |
| 01:03.09 | SpeedEvil | It's more total charge and discharge amp-hours. |
| 01:03.14 | LuitvD | Elrond: battery life is measured in number of charges :P |
| 01:03.25 | Elrond | Right, if it's 20%, I'll plug the carger in the wall socket. ;) |
| 01:03.33 | SpeedEvil | 50% charge/discharge will get you half the cycles that 25% will. |
| 01:04.06 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: not completely true... |
| 01:04.21 | SpeedEvil | No, not completely false either. |
| 01:04.37 | Elrond | Hmm, so plugging to my PC in the evening and hacking on it... or just leaving it there, while I do other stuff... shouldn't hurt too much. |
| 01:05.01 | LuitvD | 50% charge/discharge cycles are less hard on your batteries then 75% |
| 01:05.04 | SpeedEvil | In any case - the battery will probably last well over a yer. |
| 01:05.16 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: other way round I meant. |
| 01:05.26 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: I reckon it'll last well over 3 years... |
| 01:05.27 | SpeedEvil | charge/discharge by 25%/... |
| 01:05.33 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - My phones current battery lasts for 5 years or so. |
| 01:05.34 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: okay :P |
| 01:06.30 | LuitvD | lol, my old M35i phone had a stupid 'battery maintenance' function XD |
| 01:06.50 | LuitvD | clearly the Siemens developers didn't know how a Lithium battery works |
| 01:07.18 | LuitvD | their battery 'maintenance' would first completely drain, and then completely charge the battery XD |
| 01:07.26 | LuitvD | fully draining a lithium-cell is BAD |
| 01:07.36 | LuitvD | stupid siemens engineers |
| 01:07.53 | LuitvD | fluffs: you allways win prizes... |
| 01:08.00 | Elrond | LuitvD - My ME45 doesn't do that. And the battery is now 5 years old and works very nicely still. |
| 01:08.18 | LuitvD | Elrond: does it have a 'battery maintenance' mode? |
| 01:08.22 | Elrond | fluffs - I wonder, if I'll get an answer on my om-kernel post. ;) |
| 01:08.39 | Elrond | LuitvD - No idea. I wouldn't use it. :) |
| 01:08.50 | LuitvD | Elrond: i think the M35 was the first and only device doing that... because they realized it wasn't that 'maintaining' :P |
| 01:08.58 | *** join/#openmoko natetru1 (n=natetrue@c-24-17-74-65.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 01:09.03 | LuitvD | it was more like killing the battery :P |
| 01:09.24 | LuitvD | if I'd hack the firmware I'd rename it to "Battery Bashing mode" :P |
| 01:09.28 | Elrond | I like my ME45 :-) |
| 01:10.08 | LuitvD | those old siemens phones are quite rugged :P |
| 01:10.26 | LuitvD | you can juggle with them, and fail, without destroying your device :P |
| 01:10.37 | fluffs | right, time to get some sleep |
| 01:10.41 | LuitvD | current phones can't even handle a drop from 10 cm high... |
| 01:11.00 | LuitvD | fluffs: I should be saying that... |
| 01:11.08 | LuitvD | it's 2:11 am here... :S |
| 01:11.12 | Elrond | rugged neo. ;) |
| 01:11.45 | LuitvD | Elrond: i think it's far from rugged... compared to some old siemens and nokia devices... |
| 01:12.49 | fluffs | 01:12am here... and today I did 1Km swim |
| 01:12.49 | Elrond | I meant: There should be a rugged edition of the neo ;-) |
| 01:12.55 | fluffs | anyway, goodnight all |
| 01:13.00 | natetru1 | hey, i've dropped my Treo 600 a few times, and its previous owner dropped it many many more |
| 01:13.02 | Elrond | Night fluffs |
| 01:13.13 | natetru1 | it survived smashing my tablet PC's screen by accident |
| 01:13.45 | LuitvD | natetrue: did your tablet-pc survive it? :P |
| 01:13.53 | natetrue | fortunately yes |
| 01:14.04 | LuitvD | lol, why are you glad about that? |
| 01:14.05 | natetrue | the screen had a piece of anti-glare glass in front, to protect against scratches |
| 01:14.11 | LuitvD | ah :P |
| 01:14.14 | natetrue | that was all that broke, fortunately |
| 01:14.19 | CM | LuitvD: Hey again. Did you get it to finish the build? |
| 01:14.21 | natetrue | i replaced it with plate glass from a hardware store |
| 01:14.44 | natetrue | what happened was i'd thrown my treo onto my bed, but i missed due to a momentary lapse of coordination |
| 01:14.54 | natetrue | it bounced off, and smashed its antenna against my tablet screen |
| 01:14.54 | LuitvD | CM: nope, my kernel is unstable today... had 3 spinlocks today :P |
| 01:15.13 | LuitvD | CM: I'll boot into my old kernel tomorrow and try again |
| 01:15.22 | CM | LuitvD: Heh, 2.6.20? Mine fails on db3-native anyway |
| 01:15.27 | LuitvD | natetrue: nice :P |
| 01:17.04 | LuitvD | damn, need to get some rest... |
| 01:17.06 | natetrue | i just found this project through make magazine |
| 01:17.14 | natetrue | tell me, how will text entry work? |
| 01:17.16 | Elrond | Night people. |
| 01:17.21 | CM | night |
| 01:17.22 | LuitvD | I've been programming my robot for 3 hours straight now... |
| 01:17.30 | parag0n | natetrue, sounds like a heart-stopping moment |
| 01:17.33 | LuitvD | got to get some sleep |
| 01:17.34 | natetrue | oh it was |
| 01:17.37 | CM | I've been drinking beer for 5.. ;) |
| 01:17.49 | LuitvD | lol |
| 01:17.54 | LuitvD | 5 weeks? :P |
| 01:18.00 | leventhal | free beer commences in 15 minutes here |
| 01:18.07 | natetrue | i know how you feel, i always get depressed after finishing an invention |
| 01:18.18 | natetrue | http://cre.ations.net/creation/the-goo-fountain just published today |
| 01:18.36 | natetrue | yet somehow i still do it |
| 01:18.36 | parag0n | like last week, when i put my chair leg on top of my powerbook, then sat on it |
| 01:18.42 | LuitvD | eww... |
| 01:18.42 | natetrue | oh man |
| 01:18.47 | natetrue | how did you manage that |
| 01:18.52 | parag0n | huge dent in the lid, but the screen is fine :D |
| 01:18.56 | LuitvD | that is nasty... a goo fountain |
| 01:18.58 | leventhal | whew |
| 01:19.02 | parag0n | it was charging, on the floor next to my desk |
| 01:19.18 | natetrue | the goal with the goo fountain was for it to be gross-looking but still interesting |
| 01:19.23 | natetrue | like, the goo is odorless and tasteless |
| 01:19.37 | natetrue | but somehow it's still 'icky' |
| 01:19.48 | LuitvD | natetrue: it should be green-ish though... |
| 01:19.49 | LuitvD | :P |
| 01:19.55 | natetrue | i thought about that |
| 01:20.00 | SpeedEvil | I have considered manufacturing chocolate fountains. |
| 01:20.04 | natetrue | i have fluorescein which makes the acid green color |
| 01:20.13 | LuitvD | cool |
| 01:20.16 | SpeedEvil | With melted chocolate, in the form of a famous internet image. |
| 01:20.18 | natetrue | but i didn't think it would look good with the wood |
| 01:20.35 | natetrue | SpeedEvil, gross |
| 01:20.44 | natetrue | yet intriguing... |
| 01:20.48 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1088840400.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 01:20.52 | LuitvD | aaah, that bubbling is gross :P |
| 01:21.10 | natetrue | i was surprised how long it continued to boil after i took it out of the microwave |
| 01:21.14 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: BUH, YUCK |
| 01:21.21 | LuitvD | natetrue: lol |
| 01:23.38 | LuitvD | well... going to sleep now... |
| 01:23.41 | LuitvD | bye y'all |
| 01:23.43 | natetrue | good night |
| 01:23.50 | natetrue | i'm going to play some wii! |
| 01:23.58 | LuitvD | natetrue: :( |
| 01:24.08 | natetrue | no, it's a happy thing |
| 01:24.59 | SpeedEvil | Better goo. http://www.west.net/~science/slime.htm |
| 01:26.25 | SpeedEvil | The thickened water has no tensile strength, you really want something that forms long strings for optimum ikkyness. |
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| 02:18.28 | rwhitby | | dates_navigator.c:24:47: error: libedataserver/e-data-server-util.h: No such file or directory |
| 02:18.44 | rwhitby | (latest failure in mokomakefile build) |
| 02:19.59 | rwhitby | Looks like stuff is being staged into staging/arm-linux/include/evolution-data-server-1.4/ |
| 02:19.59 | rwhitby | <PROTECTED> |
| 02:25.07 | rwhitby | nope, that's not it. that path is on the cmdline |
| 02:27.23 | rwhitby | e-data-server-util.h is missing from that include dir |
| 02:30.01 | alphaone | rwhitby: Wasn't there a patch that removed that include? |
| 02:34.22 | jebba | rwhitby, anyway to get your makefile to allow `make -j4` or whatever? |
| 02:36.05 | rwhitby | jebba: no idea. |
| 02:36.28 | rwhitby | alphaone: got a URL? |
| 02:38.09 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 02:38.20 | alphaone | rwhitby: It's in openmoko/trunk/oe/packages/openmoko-pim/openmoko-dates/compile-fix.patch |
| 02:38.50 | rwhitby | hmm - wonder if my svn problem caused that not to be applied. |
| 02:39.11 | alphaone | No idea. |
| 02:39.22 | alphaone | It is referenced in the .bb |
| 02:39.28 | rwhitby | sorry, rhetorical question :-) |
| 02:40.50 | alphaone | :-) |
| 02:42.04 | rwhitby | hmm - it's not referenced in the documented svn version |
| 02:42.49 | rwhitby | at some point the documented build procedure is gonna need to step forward from svn rev 1004 ... |
| 02:48.30 | rwhitby | will sort that out tonight. |
| 02:48.33 | alphaone | have fun |
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| 04:58.36 | aloril | cool answer: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ Q: Who is eligible to buy a Neo1973 in Phase 1 (developer phase)? |
| 04:58.38 | Kero | aloril: right :) |
| 04:58.38 | aloril | new quick answer added: |
| 04:58.39 | aloril | faq? |
| 04:58.39 | aloril | See http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/FAQ |
| 04:58.40 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-196-211.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 04:59.53 | aloril | so anytime somebody asks question answered there, you can answer using above line |
| 05:00.41 | natetrue | why aren't there any photos of someone holding the neo1973 |
| 05:00.43 | aloril | some articles linked from have image of somebody holding Neo1973: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Press_Coverage |
| 05:00.44 | natetrue | ah |
| 05:00.44 | natetrue | found one, http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-look-the-antiiphone-openmokos-neo1973-236841.php |
| 05:01.14 | aloril | nick count records (pruned list): 106 2006-12-04; 116 2006-12-20; 134 2007-01-11; 157 2007-01-15; 182 2007-01-17 ; 197 2007-01-20 ; 201 2007-01-21; 211 2007-01-25; 219 2007-02-01; 228 2007-02-05; 231 2007-02-06; 238 2007-02-13; 247 2007-02-14; 251 2007-02-15; 261 2007-02-16 |
| 05:01.16 | natetrue | i always said you know a successful open-source project when their freenode chatroom has lots of people |
| 05:54.23 | aloril | moved page up in channel list: http://irc.netsplit.de/channels/?net=freenode&query=&num=20 |
| 05:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko Antitux (i=antitux@evil.antitux.us) |
| 05:54.26 | Antitux | wow |
| 05:54.26 | Antitux | lots of people here. |
| 05:54.29 | aloril | yeah, and it just keeps growing ;-) |
| 05:54.29 | Antitux | that's kinda exciting |
| 05:54.29 | Antitux | this is the kinda project i've been looking for for quite a while. |
| 06:20.07 | Antitux | I'm just trying to get a development environment together. |
| 06:20.11 | aloril | following this? http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile |
| 06:20.11 | Antitux | haven't gotten there |
| 06:20.12 | Antitux | least, not yet |
| 06:20.13 | Antitux | still working on getting a clean install done. |
| 06:20.13 | Antitux | :) |
| 06:20.14 | Antitux | sorry, I was a release engineer back in the day. I like clean environments |
| 06:20.15 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@ppp167-236-180.static.internode.on.net) |
| 06:20.15 | Antitux | well, build/release |
| 06:20.33 | Antitux | in another life. |
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| 06:21.18 | jebba | my MokoMakefile build failed at: db3-native-3.2.9-r2 |
| 06:21.20 | jebba | mutex.h:647: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'tsl_t' |
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| 06:22.55 | aloril | btw.. this is quick way to get some feel: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC |
| 06:23.05 | MacNorth | nice to see autotools adding a little bit of order finally :) |
| 06:24.18 | noidd | time to test this backup in anger |
| 06:24.18 | noidd | since I just blew away my RAID array by accident :-P |
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| 06:24.37 | aloril | jebba: is your build from scratch following http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/MokoMakefile ? |
| 06:24.37 | cjb | LaF0rge: Neat, just saw about 2.6.20. Do you think that dynticks (which Linus just pulled) will help battery life? |
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| 06:24.46 | aloril | if gprs_works and phoning_works and sms_works and updating_everything_except_uboot_safely_works: ship_it_to_me ;-) |
| 06:24.47 | aloril | this is kind of funny and common comment (from Digg): 'Why do all Apple product "killers" attempt to mimic Apple products? ' ;-) |
| 06:24.47 | aloril | it seems many don't know that Neo1973 was announced first |
| 06:24.55 | natetrue | copying them from the future is still copying |
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| 06:24.58 | aloril | hehe |
| 06:25.06 | aloril | linux booting up in actual finished Neo1973: http://popsci.typepad.com/popsci/2007/02/up_close_and_pe.html |
| 06:26.37 | noidd | the curiosity is killing me |
| 06:26.52 | noidd | what color scheme are the p0 and p1 phones going to have |
| 06:27.08 | noidd | we've seen both white/orange and black/grey in the wild now. |
| 06:27.45 | natetrue | lol, CRC errors |
| 06:27.56 | noidd | tasty errors |
| 06:28.52 | aloril | seems that black/silver is demoed for (Linux) geeks and orange is demoed for others |
| 06:29.18 | noidd | I'm still not 100% sure what I think of the lanyard hole tho |
| 06:29.52 | aloril | lanyard? wasn't that bottle opener? ;-) (yeah I know it will include lanyard in packet) |
| 06:30.21 | noidd | its tempting to attemt a casemod to do that ;-0 |
| 06:30.36 | noidd | You know, its time for "noidds law". |
| 06:30.53 | noidd | Instead of "All applications evolve until they can read email" |
| 06:31.09 | noidd | "All phones evolve until they can open a bottle of beer" |
| 06:32.10 | noidd | it was a dev snapshot |
| 06:32.17 | noidd | could be any of a thousand reasons |
| 06:32.19 | cbpage | that was a server-already-running error, which was odd |
| 06:33.33 | aloril | Sean should have logged in and removed /tmp/.X0-lock ;-) |
| 06:35.20 | natetrue | i so want one of these phones |
| 06:35.39 | natetrue | i must have one! |
| 06:37.38 | aloril | hmm.. maybe using console at the moment requires bluetooth (or powered USB hub + USB keyboard) |
| 06:38.27 | natetrue | i suppose the phones don't have an old-school serial console then? |
| 06:39.37 | noidd | meaning db9 connection? |
| 06:39.52 | aloril | natetrue: there is hackers lunchbox |
| 06:39.52 | natetrue | not necessarily |
| 06:39.53 | noidd | there is an ability to do that, yes |
| 06:40.03 | noidd | you mean rs232 right? |
| 06:40.07 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 06:40.08 | noidd | at PC levels |
| 06:40.08 | natetrue | timing-wise yeah |
| 06:40.14 | natetrue | not necessarily voltage-wise |
| 06:40.14 | noidd | ie, +12/-12 |
| 06:40.18 | noidd | not +5/-5 |
| 06:40.20 | noidd | Yes, there is |
| 06:40.26 | natetrue | i'm used to 0-3.3v ttl at rs232 timings |
| 06:40.46 | natetrue | which is what i used when i dealt with wrt54g-compatible routers |
| 06:40.49 | noidd | Well, converters are trivial using the maxi232 surface mounts |
| 06:41.04 | natetrue | and converters are entirely unnecessary with cell phone usb-serial adapters |
| 06:41.16 | natetrue | what does this lunchbox consist of? |
| 06:41.26 | natetrue | pie? |
| 06:41.32 | noidd | we don;t know for sure yet |
| 06:41.37 | aloril | in case you haven't seen: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board |
| 06:41.46 | noidd | but we *suspect*, the debug board |
| 06:41.49 | noidd | ah, see aloril |
| 06:42.48 | aloril | well.. quite likely "Hackers lunchbox"==Debug_Board, but.. there has been no official word about it yet |
| 06:43.10 | aloril | (I think some Sean mail did mention Hackers lunchbox and JTAG at same time or something like that) |
| 06:43.24 | natetrue | yeah i saw that somewhere too |
| 06:43.34 | aloril | just need to open phone and you can use debug board with any Neo1973 |
| 06:44.21 | noidd | looks like the connectivity is via one of those flexible circuit cables |
| 06:44.24 | noidd | which is kinda scary |
| 06:44.36 | natetrue | they're pretty hardy |
| 06:44.39 | aloril | is there need for one if you are not 1) doing hardware hacking 2) not writing uboot (and thus risking bricking) ? |
| 06:45.04 | natetrue | once the software is stable i bet not |
| 06:45.15 | noidd | I agree |
| 06:45.23 | natetrue | so long as you can interact with the bootloader |
| 06:45.42 | natetrue | i spent some time on the OpenWRT project, and i learned that there are different levels of bricking |
| 06:45.47 | aloril | hmm.. there was recently added USB support to uboot? (or something like that) |
| 06:48.50 | aloril | well.. I think in case of Neo1973 overwiting uboot without non functioning one would need JTAG for unbricking |
| 06:49.04 | natetrue | yeah |
| 06:49.16 | natetrue | and also if your kernel was bad, and you couldn't access the bootloader to flash a new one |
| 06:49.46 | natetrue | i'd bet there's some mechanism whereby you can load a new kernel onto the micro-sd card and boot |
| 06:50.02 | natetrue | or even always load the kernel out of the SD card |
| 06:50.29 | jebba | aloril, yes, this was a build from scratch following MokoMakefile on debian etch |
| 06:50.37 | jebba | bbiab |
| 08:05.52 | aloril | natetrue: I think there is already or will be support for loading kernel (or doing whole boot) out of SD card |
| 08:05.52 | natetrue | i know uboot supports it |
| 08:05.52 | natetrue | the Neuros OSD does that |
| 08:05.53 | natetrue | er, you can tell it to |
| 08:05.53 | natetrue | though you configure that using a serial console |
| 08:05.56 | aloril | in case of Neo1973 I think you can do this using USB (I recall mention of this, could recall wrong) |
| 08:05.57 | natetrue | heh, in the wiki there's mention of the neo having an accelerometer |
| 08:05.58 | *** join/#openmoko dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 08:06.03 | aloril | natetrue: in wishlist or somewhere else? |
| 08:06.03 | natetrue | "Computer Mouse" |
| 08:06.03 | natetrue | i guess it's filed under wishlist |
| 08:06.06 | *** join/#openmoko jebba (n=jebba@OL80-42.fibertel.com.ar) |
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| 08:06.24 | dottedmag | aloril: first |
| 08:06.24 | dottedmag | aloril: who starts will be first who finish :) |
| 08:06.26 | aloril | 7.5h reportedly on PC, so.. multiply that by hmm 100x or 1000x? |
| 08:06.27 | natetrue | heh |
| 08:06.27 | natetrue | if you don't run out of RAM |
| 08:06.27 | aloril | swap ;-) |
| 08:07.07 | natetrue | so how many people actually have neo1973's now? |
| 08:07.08 | neclimdul | 7.5 hr?! the frame work took like 1min |
| 08:07.09 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1088840400.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 08:07.12 | neclimdul | plus, seems like this might be a good place for a crosscompiler setup? |
| 08:07.17 | aloril | natetrue: probably maybe only 4 (including people inside FIC) |
| 08:07.17 | natetrue | wow |
| 08:07.17 | cbpage | i hope you can use make -j 2 |
| 08:07.17 | aloril | neclimdul: it compiles whole distribution, including crosscompiler |
| 08:07.18 | cbpage | heck distcc-cross wouldn't hurt ;) |
| 08:07.19 | neclimdul | aloril: ah, cool |
| 08:07.19 | aloril | hmm.. with distributed compiling neo can compile it, just use bluetooth to distribute compilation (to PC ;-) and download compiled binaries back |
| 08:07.19 | natetrue | that is the best idea i have heard, ever |
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| 08:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko valed (n=valed@IGLD-84-229-67-223.inter.net.il) |
| 08:08.15 | valed | hi all. :) |
| 08:08.15 | valed | a little question: did some one tried to use MokoMakefile? |
| 08:08.16 | valed | any one alive here? |
| 08:08.17 | natetrue | i am but sorry, i can't help you :) |
| 08:08.17 | natetrue | besides moral support |
| 08:08.17 | natetrue | hang in there! |
| 08:08.17 | valed | :) |
| 08:08.22 | aloril | valed: still compiling (started from scratch today with latest one) |
| 08:08.24 | valed | cool |
| 08:08.24 | valed | I'm stuck on the downloading from OE part. |
| 08:08.26 | aloril | rwhitby: you might want to look above at comments by jebba (db3-native-3.2.9-r2 and debian etch lines) |
| 08:08.27 | valed | trying to figure out what did I miss... |
| 08:08.28 | aloril | its 100MB, will take a while? |
| 08:08.29 | valed | well, when use just wget from cli it works, but makefile fails to connect to the site of OE |
| 08:11.19 | valed | does some one know what the 'mtn' means in the Makefile? I think this is the reason the Makefile fails at my station. |
| 08:11.48 | valed | is it monotone for OE? |
| 08:14.57 | aloril | mtn --version |
| 08:14.58 | aloril | monotone 0.32 |
| 08:15.04 | aloril | check that you have above version |
| 08:15.24 | valed | yep. compiling it. :) |
| 08:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@206.80-202-161.nextgentel.com) |
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| 09:27.42 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 09:27.48 | LuitvD | mornin' |
| 09:28.12 | koen | hey LuitvD |
| 09:28.24 | LuitvD | hello koen |
| 09:29.28 | koen | bluetooth keyboard? |
| 09:29.29 | LuitvD | would a terminal-mouse service + on-screen terminal keyboard be possible? |
| 09:29.32 | koen | powered usb keyboard? |
| 09:29.36 | koen | serial keybaord? |
| 09:29.52 | LuitvD | meh, I want it on the device... |
| 09:29.59 | LuitvD | not on some peripheral |
| 09:30.21 | dottedmag | koen: the best one would be telepathic keyboard. |
| 09:30.26 | koen | I don't think having raw tty access is in FIC's goals for the neo |
| 09:31.01 | LuitvD | koen: nope, but for some developers (the ones hacking X11?) |
| 09:31.07 | LuitvD | it would be usefull... |
| 09:31.25 | LuitvD | and I know I'd like to have some sort of raw tty shell... |
| 09:31.53 | koen | tty or a terminal emulator? |
| 09:31.56 | LuitvD | what shell will be used? bash? |
| 09:31.57 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BF0CD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 09:32.01 | koen | no bash |
| 09:32.07 | koen | busybox |
| 09:32.18 | LuitvD | koen: raw shell, no graphic interface + virtual terminal... |
| 09:32.32 | koen | serial console or ssh over bnep |
| 09:32.53 | LuitvD | serial console... |
| 09:33.07 | LuitvD | is there a way to get to the serial port pins?? :P |
| 09:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.197) |
| 09:33.16 | koen | use the debug board |
| 09:33.31 | LuitvD | koen: hmm, yeah... |
| 09:33.32 | koen | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Debug_Board |
| 09:33.38 | LuitvD | what's the price of that thing? |
| 09:33.59 | koen | free for p0 devs? |
| 09:34.48 | LuitvD | meh, I'm not a p0 dev am I :P |
| 09:34.57 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.163.158.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 09:36.52 | LuitvD | and I don't think I can become one, now can I? |
| 09:38.31 | koen | nope |
| 09:38.49 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 09:41.05 | CM | jebba: db3-native failed for me too. See: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1765 |
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| 11:30.29 | ninHer | hi all |
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| 12:39.23 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1025 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: |
| 12:39.23 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * set minimum resolution to 240x320 (needs LCM SPI support, though) |
| 12:39.23 | CIA-7 | openmoko: * set minimum bit depth to 1 |
| 12:39.26 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BF0CD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 12:39.58 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1026 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: get rid of commented-out 3rd uart definition |
| 12:41.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1027 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: |
| 12:41.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Tidy the initialisers in mach-gta01.c and use named |
| 12:41.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: initialisers for the struct |
| 12:41.48 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 12:43.24 | Hadaka | a quick question - what is the maximum transfer rate of the GPRS in the Neo1973? |
| 12:43.49 | mjr | good question, haven't really seen that anywhere |
| 12:44.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1028 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: |
| 12:44.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Remove the IORESOUCRE_MEM flags from resources that are GPIO |
| 12:44.18 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 12:44.27 | mjr | we know it's not edge, but that still leaves a bit of leeway |
| 12:44.36 | Hadaka | 2.5G, not EDGE - odes that mean that the transfer rate is the same as with the original gprs or something better? |
| 12:44.47 | mjr | original gprs |
| 12:45.16 | mjr | but as said, there are differences in how many timeslots a gprs device can use, so it depends a bit |
| 12:45.28 | mjr | not a lot, but a bit |
| 12:46.03 | *** join/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 12:46.22 | sircrow | Hi @ll |
| 12:46.24 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-196-211.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 12:46.40 | *** join/#openmoko vrt_ (n=vrt@122.167.42.32) |
| 12:46.40 | Hadaka | okay, so definitely less than 100kbit/s anyway? |
| 12:46.48 | mjr | Hadaka, correct |
| 12:47.09 | Hadaka | okay, thanks |
| 12:48.27 | mjr | it can theoretically get up to 80kbit/s downlink, if it's a multislot class 8 or 10-12 |
| 12:50.24 | mjr | same uplink if it's class 12. Wouldn't count on it. |
| 12:50.55 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1029 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: (log message trimmed) |
| 12:50.55 | CIA-7 | openmoko: The use of IORESOURCE_MEM is an potential bug wrt to |
| 12:50.55 | CIA-7 | openmoko: the platform driver which ensures that the ranges |
| 12:50.55 | CIA-7 | openmoko: for IORESOURCE_MEM and IORESOURCE_IO are available |
| 12:50.55 | CIA-7 | openmoko: when the device is registered. |
| 12:50.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Temporarily remove IORESOURCE_MEM flag until either they |
| 12:51.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: can be removed by moving to the hardware SPI driver |
| 12:53.35 | *** join/#openmoko taulen (n=saldong@236.80-202-247.nextgentel.com) |
| 12:53.46 | mjr | can't easily find it on the web |
| 12:54.42 | mjr | I'll just check the logs later if one of the developers in the know happen to answer :] |
| 12:56.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1030 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: |
| 12:56.00 | CIA-7 | openmoko: The board_size for hard SPI was being set |
| 12:56.01 | CIA-7 | openmoko: from the wrong value. Also remove & from |
| 12:56.01 | CIA-7 | openmoko: the pointers to the board_info. |
| 12:56.01 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 12:56.59 | *** part/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 12:58.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1031 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: |
| 12:58.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: There should be no need to call spi_register_board for either of the s3c24xx |
| 12:58.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: drivers as they both register the devices specified in their platform data. |
| 12:58.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Also change SPI CS pin to high on init |
| 12:58.56 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 13:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko CSDexter (i=csdexter@89.37.42.189) |
| 13:08.42 | CSDexter | [shy] Hello everyone :-) |
| 13:11.43 | empty_mind | CSDexter, |
| 13:13.07 | CSDexter | empty_mind> yes? |
| 13:13.23 | *** part/#openmoko PhilKC (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 13:13.28 | empty_mind | CSDexter, just replied to your hello |
| 13:15.39 | *** join/#openmoko mako_ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 13:18.31 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1032 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: |
| 13:18.31 | CIA-7 | openmoko: The .bus field of the spi driver is initialised |
| 13:18.31 | CIA-7 | openmoko: when you register the driver with the spi system |
| 13:18.31 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 13:18.33 | CSDexter | empty_mind> oh, ok :) |
| 13:18.57 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 13:19.18 | CSDexter | Cool, commits are relayed to the channel as well :) |
| 13:20.42 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1033 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: give MACH_GTA01 a more reasonable name |
| 13:21.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1034 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-jbt6k74.patch: |
| 13:21.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Select the drivers that this build depends on |
| 13:21.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: in the Kconfig to ensure that the build does |
| 13:21.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: not fail |
| 13:21.46 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 13:22.22 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
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| 13:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 13:30.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1035 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-pcf50606.patch: |
| 13:30.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Select the drivers that this build depends on in the Kconfig to ensure that the |
| 13:30.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: build does not fail |
| 13:30.05 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 13:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
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| 15:03.18 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 15:03.20 | CoreDump|home | morning |
| 15:03.21 | goxboxlive | Is there a way to let the "Dial" button show in landscape mode? http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 15:03.21 | goxboxlive | As you see it is hidden |
| 15:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko cheesy (n=cheesy@mnch-4db0c0ba.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:03.23 | cheesy | is there a new release date? |
| 15:03.23 | goxboxlive | ? |
| 15:03.23 | mikesh | counter |
| 15:03.23 | aloril | P0: a week, 4 days 22:19:58 (5.931 - 11.931 days); P1: 27.931 - 42.931; P2: 195.931 - 225.931 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (351) |
| 15:03.25 | cheesy | great |
| 15:03.25 | cheesy | i just can't wait :) |
| 15:03.29 | *** part/#openmoko so_solid_moo (n=nnmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 15:03.29 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_moo (n=nnmoo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 15:03.30 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 15:05.38 | *** join/#openmoko Kaco (n=kanzels@adsl-dyn183.91-127-116.t-com.sk) |
| 15:05.38 | Kaco | afternoon everybody |
| 15:05.47 | koen | oh dear |
| 15:05.48 | pH5 | control freak designers :) |
| 15:05.48 | Kaco | looks good, i'm curious if this is possible with GTK+ :) |
| 15:05.49 | Kaco | i mean pixel precision |
| 15:05.50 | Kaco | but maybe with some pixmap hacks |
| 15:05.50 | pH5 | poor mickeyl |
| 15:05.51 | Kaco | as far I remember GTK+ doesn't work with absolute Pixel coordinates... but rather with table-like layout .. as in HTML tables |
| 15:05.52 | Kaco | but still hoping :) |
| 15:05.52 | *** join/#openmoko mako (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 15:05.53 | koen | pixel based GUIs are so 1990's |
| 15:05.54 | Kaco | :-D |
| 15:05.57 | Kaco | well so maybe this would be better with some SVG powered UI |
| 15:05.57 | koen | scalable guis with proper hinting would rock |
| 15:05.57 | Kaco | yeah |
| 15:05.57 | *** join/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 15:05.57 | Kaco | but that is going to require more power from CPU, 266MHz ARM won't do that |
| 15:05.58 | Kaco | will all those glassy effects there |
| 15:05.59 | xkr47 | hmm |
| 15:05.59 | Kaco | anyway I heard that MacOSX Leopard is going to have some kind of vector UI |
| 15:06.00 | Kaco | ok now something kinda offtopic |
| 15:06.00 | *** join/#openmoko markit (n=konversa@host119-245-static.72-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 15:06.01 | Kaco | do you think somebody will be interested to do some image editing with OpenMoko? |
| 15:06.01 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1036 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/ (gta01-core.patch gta01-vbus_draw.patch series): merge gta01-vbus_draw into gta01-core.patch |
| 15:06.02 | Kaco | i mean you know, you take some pictures, edit them and then send them over internet |
| 15:06.02 | xkr47 | well cropping at least |
| 15:06.03 | Kaco | i'm thinking of porting this program to OpenMoko: http://www.kanzelsberger.com |
| 15:06.03 | Kaco | well not cropping ... but let's say Photoshop in phone :) |
| 15:06.03 | Kaco | some LE version |
| 15:06.05 | SuN | Kaco: a lot of phones have simple editing, mainly to use with shots taken with the onboard camera. My E680i has a simple image editor, but I can't say I've used it much -- can't think of anything I'd do with it. |
| 15:06.05 | xkr47 | lol |
| 15:06.06 | Kaco | SuN, i'm thinking of those newspaper photographing guys ... not common phone users :) |
| 15:06.07 | markit | yes, only cropping or changing exposure could be usefull, OMHO |
| 15:06.07 | Kaco | I didn't mean taking pictures with Neo :) |
| 15:06.07 | markit | and not a "bloated" application will be very useful, don't add features that are not important |
| 15:06.07 | SuN | The resolution of the images those people work with, will probably make that impossible. |
| 15:06.07 | Kaco | let's say OpenMoko will work on ARM PDAs and Smartphones |
| 15:06.08 | *** join/#openmoko apardo_ (n=apardo@87.217.145.61) |
| 15:06.08 | Kaco | SuN, you can put 4Gb SD card to smartphone |
| 15:06.09 | SuN | Storage is not the thing I'm worried about -- CPU and RAM are. |
| 15:06.09 | Kaco | yeah |
| 15:06.09 | Kaco | well i know, it will be slow ... but properly designed it won't need a lot of RAM |
| 15:06.10 | *** part/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 15:06.10 | Kaco | but still better to carry smartphone/PDA than notebook |
| 15:06.11 | SuN | True |
| 15:06.11 | Kaco | well i have to think about it more :) |
| 15:06.11 | Kaco | and still no openmoko here :( |
| 15:06.11 | SuN | I can imagine some use cases, but they're pretty limited, I guess. But if you have the time... go for it ;) |
| 15:06.14 | CIA-7 | openmoko: 03laforge * r1037 10/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/gta01-core.patch: |
| 15:06.14 | CIA-7 | openmoko: The udc_command field is checked by the udc driver for being non-null, so we |
| 15:06.14 | CIA-7 | openmoko: can use the revision passed in to set the ucd_command field at initialisation |
| 15:06.14 | CIA-7 | openmoko: time. |
| 15:06.14 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Also changed gta01_udc_pullup to gta01_udc_command |
| 15:06.15 | CIA-7 | openmoko: Signed-off-by: Ben Dooks <ben-linux@fluff.org> |
| 15:06.15 | markit | images should occupy a lot of ram, once decompressed for editing, I guess |
| 15:06.15 | Kaco | well i would like to contribute to openmoko somehow ... will see when I get Neo in my pocket :) |
| 15:06.16 | Kaco | markit, yes but that's not what I meant .... you can work on small thumbnail ... and after you're done you can apply the changes to whole file |
| 15:06.18 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B03DB2.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:06.26 | koen | pH5: yay! |
| 15:06.27 | koen | pH5: maybe the openezx dudes can help you with that |
| 15:06.28 | pH5 | for now it's just editing gtkrcs and hunting pngs through convert, but we can build on that |
| 15:06.28 | xkr47 | is the TI Calypso one single chipset or is it a chipset family with chips with varying feature sets? |
| 15:06.28 | pH5 | probably need some artists with a lot of time to clean up those 50% scaled pngs :) |
| 15:06.28 | xkr47 | pH5, nice |
| 15:06.29 | pH5 | xkr47: no idea, not much info on the net about this platform |
| 15:06.30 | xkr47 | I found some phones with "TI Calypso" and they claim to have class B gprs with multislot 10 |
| 15:06.32 | pH5 | xkr47: what is multislot 10? |
| 15:06.32 | pH5 | I have this in a command of my chipset init sequence |
| 15:06.33 | SuN | Hm, "source" for the images would be nice.. PSD or Gimp files, I mean. |
| 15:06.33 | *** join/#openmoko Kaco (n=kanzels@adsl-dyn183.91-127-116.t-com.sk) |
| 15:06.33 | xkr47 | pH5, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gprs#The_GPRS_capability_classes |
| 15:06.34 | Kaco | damn it, got disconnected and missed all messages |
| 15:06.35 | xkr47 | SuN, yeah |
| 15:06.36 | xkr47 | Kaco, just 3 :) |
| 15:06.38 | *** join/#openmoko kbral (n=bravehea@201.14.163.215) |
| 15:06.39 | pH5 | xkr47: thanks. |
| 15:06.40 | pH5 | hmm. |
| 15:06.40 | pH5 | gsmd doesn't like sending ATPRIM="GMM","CONFIG MULTISLOT_CLASS=<10>" |
| 15:06.41 | jebba | CM, yep, exact same error with 64 bit box... #1765 |
| 15:06.41 | pH5 | it splits the command at the space |
| 15:06.42 | pH5 | s/ATPRIM/AT%CPRIM/ |
| 15:06.43 | xkr47 | pH5, you have a phone ? |
| 15:06.44 | xkr47 | I mean neo.. |
| 15:06.45 | pH5 | not yet, for now I use my trusty old htc magician. |
| 15:06.45 | koen | pH5: gsmd works on your magician? |
| 15:06.45 | pH5 | koen: like a charm, hacky patches are on the gsmd-devel list. |
| 15:06.46 | jebba | aloril, CM pointed out the bug. Not a problem with Makefile. OE #1765 |
| 15:06.48 | koen | xkr47: better make it tag based |
| 15:06.48 | koen | "vga, qvga" |
| 15:06.48 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.160.193) |
| 15:06.49 | koen | that encourages people to make one theme for more displays |
| 15:06.49 | xkr47 | koen, good |
| 15:06.51 | xkr47 | like multislot etc |
| 15:06.58 | dwery | pH5: congrats for the htc port! |
| 15:06.59 | rep | damnit... my reiserfs somehow got some corrupt and faulty inodes - i think i have to bake the devel-image again :(( |
| 15:06.59 | pH5 | dwery: no need for congratulations yet, it's an ongoing process :) |
| 15:07.09 | dwery | :) |
| 15:07.10 | koen | pH5: OE thins libgsmd is insane |
| 15:07.11 | koen | hmmm |
| 15:07.12 | koen | the second run doesn't |
| 15:07.13 | zecke | yeah, I had this issue with glibc-dbg yesterday :} |
| 15:07.13 | pH5 | I like the gsmd design though. Compared to the mess that are phoneserver of *shudder* gnomunicator. |
| 15:07.14 | pH5 | s/of/or/ |
| 15:07.24 | *** join/#openmoko dom (n=dom@juicy.ecs.soton.ac.uk) |
| 15:07.39 | *** join/#openmoko jzs (n=king@217.116.232.184) |
| 15:07.41 | jannu | does anyone knwo about the status of gtk+ and cairo wrt vector-based uis? |
| 15:07.42 | koen | you can make a vector based theme-engine with recent gtks |
| 15:07.42 | CoreDump|home | I'm wondering if the AGPS unit in the neo can be accessed by the mobile operator to pinpoint the users localtion w/o the user knowing? |
| 15:07.42 | jannu | how about the performance? i.e. could you design the ui layout pased on real-world units (millimetres) and have it run on something like the Neo |
| 15:07.42 | koen | CoreDump|home: it's hooked up to the CPU uart, so it would need a userspace helper to do that |
| 15:07.44 | CoreDump|home | koen: that is good to know, thanks |
| 15:07.44 | koen | jannu: recent versions of cairo should be fast enough to get a reasonable performance for simple GUIs |
| 15:07.45 | jannu | koen: ok. great |
| 15:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko empty_mind (n=orion@59.176.111.177) |
| 15:07.48 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe34dd00-216.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 15:07.49 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.145.63) |
| 15:08.00 | jebba | koen, any chance you could apply the one-liner patch in OE bug #1765 ? :) |
| 15:08.09 | koen | jebba: I don't use my opteron in 64bit, so I can't test |
| 15:08.10 | jebba | i can test it :) |
| 15:08.11 | jebba | so can CM |
| 15:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@sd5116826.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 15:08.14 | LuitvD | hello :) |
| 15:08.16 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=luitvd@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 15:08.17 | LuitvD | hello |
| 15:08.17 | LuitvD | :P |
| 15:08.18 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning_ (n=blueligh@222-155-136-185.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 15:08.19 | *** join/#openmoko mako_ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 15:08.21 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 15:09.54 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB770C6.ipt.aol.com) |
| 15:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko mako__ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 15:21.44 | jannu | the ui mockups in the wiki are just unbelievable |
| 15:22.22 | jannu | I mean, who on earth calls people primarily by dialing their number? |
| 15:23.11 | SuN | You're right, the dialpad isn't nearly as important as good contact management. |
| 15:23.40 | SuN | But the dialpad isn't the obvious entry point for calling anyway, I normally use my address book. |
| 15:23.55 | benJIman | address book involves putting people in it, which is hassle |
| 15:24.14 | SuN | A one time hassle that will save a lot of time later on :) |
| 15:24.22 | jannu | koen: me too |
| 15:24.40 | koen | benJIman: I sync my contacts from my laptop via bluetooth, no hassle at all |
| 15:24.55 | jannu | benJIman: remembering people's numbers involves remembering |
| 15:25.39 | SuN | I used to know a lot of phone numbers. I don't know a lot of numbers anymore. I use the space for stuff that's actually useful. :P |
| 15:26.04 | markit | jannu: I've 10 friends, 10 relatives, but 200 customes... with multiple numbers each, can't use memory for them |
| 15:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 15:26.59 | SuN | My situation is similar, I guess. 10 friends, 10 relatives and a few dozen of superficial contacts, which I do occasionally need to call, however. |
| 15:27.31 | jannu | so, for calling imho a much better approach would be an addressbook view, with a list of people you call often at the top |
| 15:27.34 | *** join/#openmoko mako (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 15:27.44 | jannu | markit: that too. |
| 15:28.04 | koen | or easy to use categories, groups, tags, etc |
| 15:28.06 | jannu | markit: and even the 20 number slots can be used for something actually useful |
| 15:28.13 | SuN | Yeah, and/or quick sorting. |
| 15:28.24 | jannu | koen: yes. those too |
| 15:28.36 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BF0CD.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:28.47 | jannu | I was thinking of a tab-based approach |
| 15:28.55 | koen | and big "add to addressbook" buttons everywhere |
| 15:29.23 | koen | if you want to see how not to do it, get a motorola a780 with the asian firmware |
| 15:29.56 | jannu | koen: from my experience almost all motorolas are a great inspiration |
| 15:30.29 | koen | jannu: I compared the european and asian firmwares and the result is astounding |
| 15:30.55 | SuN | The latest E680i firmware isn't that bad, all the features are there, just not always in logical places. The options menu in the address book doesn't fit the screen though, that's a pretty bad mess-up. |
| 15:31.04 | koen | you get the impression that people in asia only want to play java games with bright colours and loud music, but not make phonecalls |
| 15:31.25 | jannu | ok. so it's just good old motorola |
| 15:31.30 | CoreDump|home | =) |
| 15:31.32 | SuN | That, and send each other silly mock-up pictures. |
| 15:32.03 | jannu | for a minute there I was thinking that part of it could be explained by the different requirements of asian glyphs |
| 15:32.52 | *** join/#openmoko b_lindeijer (n=bjorn@lindeijer.xs4all.nl) |
| 15:32.58 | koen | jannu: on my nokia it's "addressbook hotkey -> higlight name -> press green button" to make a phone call |
| 15:33.25 | koen | jannu: a780 "menu -> adressbook -> select name -> select number -> dial -> dial" |
| 15:33.36 | koen | yes, you need to press dial *twice* |
| 16:49.08 | SuN | That's weird, what does it do between those 2 presses? |
| 16:49.08 | jannu | koen: yes, I know. consequently I don't know anyone who's owned more that one motorola phone |
| 16:49.09 | koen | SuN: it's uses the second press to confirm |
| 16:49.09 | SuN | dial -> msgbox "no fucking way". dial again -> msgbox: "well alright then."? |
| 16:49.09 | SuN | That's silly indeed. |
| 16:49.11 | SuN | "Are you sure you want to call your mother?" |
| 16:49.13 | LuitvD | :P |
| 16:49.13 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-249-244.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 16:49.13 | jannu | actually i'm surprised it's not menu -> menu -> addressbook -> addressbook -> select name -> select name -> select number -> select number -> dial -> dial" |
| 16:49.14 | SuN | Motorola's select name then select number does make sense in a way, they're simply not assuming you're 1) wanting to call them, but might want to send an e-mail or message instead and 2) people do have multiple numbers sometimes. |
| 16:49.14 | SuN | But there's no reason there can't be a default number that gets called when you highlight, then dial. |
| 16:49.15 | jannu | SuN: yes, but you might just as well show all the numbers of one person in the first list |
| 16:49.16 | jannu | SuN: so select name and number |
| 16:49.18 | jannu | besides, the whole idea that you need to go to the addressbook to make a call is just inane |
| 16:49.19 | SuN | I wouldn't wantall the numbers of my contacts in that same list, I have about 100 contacts. |
| 16:49.19 | dwery | koen, jannu: the Sony V800 is 'addressbook hotkey' -> highlight name -> (select the number/email with left/right keys or accept the default) -> dial key |
| 16:49.19 | markit | btw, address book structure is not good for me and for a lot of people I know... |
| 16:49.19 | koen | my nokia remembers the last called person, while my old s55 remember the last called person+number |
| 16:49.20 | jannu | what you should do is have a separate call button, which would take you to a view designed just for calling |
| 16:49.20 | markit | https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=110350 for a description of what I mean |
| 16:49.21 | koen | so when trying home->office->cell, the s55 would have 3 entries in "recently called" and the nokia only 1 |
| 16:49.21 | koen | I'm not sure yet which I prefer |
| 16:49.21 | pH5 | koen: more 240x320 screenshots at scap.linuxtogo.org, I guess that needs some more work :) |
| 16:49.23 | markit | in addition I suggest developers to read Alan Cooper's books like "about face" and "inmates are running the asylum", and also Joel Spolsky book as well |
| 17:22.43 | jannu | koen: how about a combination. i.e. something like Person A from number A or Person A at number A |
| 17:22.44 | jannu | koen: and those would be grouped under the same entry if found consecutively |
| 17:22.51 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 17:22.51 | koen | pH5: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/a460d46db31bde70afde15f5accb50ea.png and http://scap.linuxtogo.org/files/d70356e8f47a1ed2cc24a22e284d90a5.png looks pretty decent |
| 17:22.54 | koen | pH5: I'm wondering how to proceed with the qvga stuff |
| 17:22.55 | koen | pH5: open an enhancement bug or send a post to openmoko-devel |
| 17:22.55 | koen | (or both) |
| 17:22.55 | jannu | SuN: if 100 contacts seems like too much for the calling screen, IMHO it means just that the scrolling ui sucks |
| 17:22.58 | jannu | lists of 100 items should be made easy to handle. after all, with bigger memory cards we'll be looking at song lists of 1000 or more |
| 17:22.58 | LuitvD | openembedded should become a mentoring organisation at SoC ... |
| 17:22.58 | LuitvD | would be great for openmoko :) |
| 17:22.59 | SuN | It just doesn't make sense to me to have ~100 contacts and display 3 or more numbers/e-mail addresses per contact in that same list. |
| 17:22.59 | SuN | Doesn't have a lot to do with the scrolling gui, it's about how much info does a person need and how much can he handle. |
| 17:23.00 | SuN | I'm perfectly happy with 1 entry per contact in the list with a default number attached to it, and a separate, second screen in case I don't want to call the default number. |
| 17:23.00 | mjr | xkr47, thanks for the info; if indeed it's the same chip with multislot 10, that would be fairly good then |
| 17:23.01 | *** join/#openmoko bigbang14 (n=pattuzzi@88-106-205-238.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 17:23.02 | SuN | 99% of the cases I will not need the other info, I just want to call that contact as fast as possible. |
| 17:23.05 | jannu | SuN: exactly. that's why the interface and information needs to be tailored for the function |
| 17:23.05 | bigbang14 | is it possible to test openmoko without the phone? |
| 17:23.06 | SuN | Yes. At this point I've lost the point of our discussion :) |
| 18:09.06 | jannu | SuN: what I mean is that the approach of using the same addressbook view for calling, messaging and contact management just doesn't work |
| 18:09.06 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@80-192-23-26.stb.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:09.06 | jannu | SuN: precisely for the reason you stated |
| 18:09.07 | SuN | I agree, then. |
| 18:09.08 | jannu | SuN: but if instead of that you have a separate addressbook/callee view, which only shows the relevant information (i.e. definitely not e-mail addresses or shoe sizes), it's a whole another story |
| 18:09.10 | bigbang14 | hello? |
| 18:09.10 | SuN | Hello! |
| 18:09.11 | jannu | you can do all sorts of useful stuff like appending the most often called people/numbers to the top of the default view |
| 18:09.13 | bigbang14 | is it possible to test openmoko without the phone? |
| 18:09.13 | SuN | You can build and run the apps for x86, if you wish. |
| 18:09.14 | SuN | Or use something like qemu. |
| 18:09.14 | mjr | yes, and in addition, you should be able to mostly run it in qemu |
| 18:09.14 | mjr | yeah |
| 18:09.15 | bigbang14 | qemu? |
| 18:09.16 | SuN | Come on, it's just as fast to type that into google. |
| 18:09.17 | SuN | Why do people insist on putting other people to work? |
| 18:09.17 | aevin | laziness |
| 18:09.18 | bigbang14 | sorry |
| 18:09.18 | aevin | convenience |
| 18:09.18 | SuN | (and yes, I realize I could have typed the answer with equal effort). |
| 18:09.18 | bigbang14 | i was typing in google at the same time |
| 18:09.19 | aevin | SuN: busted! ;-) |
| 18:09.19 | mjr | well, to be fair, conversational information gathering still comes reflexively for many people ;) |
| 18:09.19 | SuN | Let it go, people! It's not the 80s anymore! ;) |
| 18:09.21 | bigbang14 | mjr:dam straight! |
| 18:09.21 | aevin | often a person gives better (short, condensed) than an avg search engine does. |
| 18:09.22 | aevin | +answer |
| 18:09.22 | jebba | there is a qemuarm (armqemu?) MACHINE in OE, iirc |
| 18:55.20 | bigbang14 | how could i use qemu to run a test of openmoko |
| 18:55.20 | jebba | But I don't think MACHINE = "fic-gta01" can be used directly in qemu (yet). Or at least I haven't figured out how. |
| 18:55.20 | SpeedEvil | jannu: I'd hope that at least some of that (1000s of songs) would be made easier with subdirectories. ID3 tag extraction, and faking it, if they are dumped in a directory may be an interesting option. Scrolling through a 1000 entry list is rarely the right solution. |
| 18:55.21 | jebba | bigbang14, i don't know how to get qemu to do it yet, that's just all I've come across. I haven't seen a working cookbook example of it yet. |
| 18:55.22 | SuN | Motorola's realplayer indexes your directories and extracts id3 so you can browse by artist, album, etc. It works, but relies on the accuracy of your tags. |
| 18:55.24 | SpeedEvil | It'd be a nice alternative. |
| 18:55.26 | SuN | Ideally I'd like a choice for "browse directories" and "browse by id3" or something. |
| 18:55.28 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - the id3 would be mainly for when the user shovels on 1000 files in one dir. |
| 18:55.28 | SuN | Which isn't completely senseless, I guess. |
| 18:55.28 | bigbang14 | is there a fixed date for the neo releases |
| 18:55.29 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. I wonder if a database of the first 4 seconds of each song would be 'fair use'. |
| 18:55.29 | SpeedEvil | To enable a (large) server to simply do a comparison between a sample you feed it and the database. |
| 18:55.29 | SpeedEvil | For auto-tagging. This isn't really neo directly though. |
| 18:55.30 | SuN | Ironically, the MP3 warez scene usually takes good care of id3 tags. |
| 18:55.30 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 18:55.31 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 18:55.32 | mjr | and as ironically, the media companies have been known to commit fraud wrt. labeling and naming of files in p2p network ;) |
| 18:55.34 | jannu | SpeedEvil: well, obviously you'll need a media player which can read id3 tags and categorise the media accordingly |
| 18:55.35 | jannu | SpeedEvil: Anything less in this day and age would just be an insult |
| 18:55.37 | jannu | SpeedEvil: not to mention replaygain support in a player designed to be used with headphones |
| 18:55.39 | bigbang14 | what countries will the phone be released in |
| 18:55.42 | jebba | koen, the patch in #1765 allowed me to build for x86_64 |
| 21:37.47 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 21:37.47 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> { www|wiki|bugzilla|planet|projects|lists } .openmoko.org <> |
| 21:37.49 | koen | pH5: ehm, I accidentally added 12MB of uboot source.... |
| 21:37.58 | pH5 | :) |
| 21:38.09 | koen | it seems FIC likes to have that in their OE repo....... |
| 21:39.00 | koen | pH5: DEPENDS = "image-magick-native" do_compile() { convert foo bar ; conver bar baz;} ;) |
| 21:39.02 | stefan_schmidt | so just some webspace for a tar.gz and the rest in oe. |
| 21:39.28 | pH5 | koen: ! |
| 21:39.30 | stefan_schmidt | koen: No, please not. Perhaps we adjust some images manuell |
| 21:40.12 | koen | that was a smiley, not a bashism :) |
| 21:40.24 | pH5 | koen: ah, who can tell, these days :) |
| 21:40.40 | stefan_schmidt | koen: ups, have not seen this one. :) |
| 21:41.28 | koen | stefan_schmidt: do you have probability theory yet? |
| 21:41.35 | koen | s/have/hate/ |
| 21:42.44 | stefan_schmidt | koen: hmm, good question. I find it interesting, but some stuff was hard to understand. I'll get the test results in two weeks |
| 21:43.30 | buz | statistic is a lot of black magic |
| 21:44.04 | koen | stefan_schmidt: I'm starting to hate it because they are applying it to signal theory |
| 21:44.16 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 21:44.41 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: Fine if I attach the gtkdrc patch in your name to the bug? |
| 21:45.41 | pH5 | stefan_schmidt: of course. |
| 21:46.17 | koen | heh |
| 21:46.26 | koen | I was talking about pass-through earlier |
| 21:46.32 | koen | LaF0rge beat me to it: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=195 :) |
| 21:47.21 | jannu | when you think about porting apps and uis don't think 480x640. |
| 21:47.47 | koen | think "small phone screen with big fingers" |
| 21:47.49 | jannu | think something like 170x227 |
| 21:48.26 | jannu | or better yet, think 43,2x57,6mm |
| 21:48.35 | stefan_schmidt | pH5, koen: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=197 |
| 21:48.49 | Kero | which apps in openmoko already use dbus? |
| 21:49.34 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: comments welcome |
| 21:50.06 | koen | Kero: almost all, eds, gconf,bluez, gpsd and gnome-vfs all use dbus |
| 21:50.26 | *** part/#openmoko dyrne (n=happy@74-140-134-102.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 21:51.16 | Kero | koen: good! gives enough processes on my PC to test hings with, too :) |
| 21:53.46 | Kero | dbus looks like a RPC+event-mechanism on the right system level |
| 21:54.03 | pH5 | stefan_schmidt: great, let's see whether you can get it to work on your moto easily. |
| 21:54.59 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: atm I fight some other problems, but I have much more time the next weeks. |
| 21:55.02 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: :) |
| 21:55.38 | koen | hey mickeyl |
| 21:55.39 | pH5 | hi mickeyl |
| 21:55.41 | stefan_schmidt | wb mickeyl |
| 21:56.07 | noidd | 'sup |
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| 21:58.59 | ecraven | is there any reason my svn co stops after trunk/oe/packages/uboot/files/arm_flags.patch ? |
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| 22:00.14 | mikesh | counter |
| 22:00.14 | aloril | P0: a week, 4 days 13:59:45 (5.583 - 11.583 days); P1: 27.583 - 42.583; P2: 195.583 - 225.583 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (353) |
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| 22:05.45 | pH5 | koen: I don't think scaling the gtkrc values during runtime is worth the effort - we need a separate theme anyway because of the pixmaps. |
| 22:06.06 | koen | ah, right |
| 22:06.22 | koen | I was already thinking in vector terms :) |
| 22:07.05 | stefan_schmidt | pH5: Like to upload your already scaled images and add a link to bug? |
| 22:11.04 | koen | stefan_schmidt: 0) add ezx support to gsmd? |
| 22:11.34 | koen | stefan_schmidt: did you see http://lists.openmoko.org/mailman/listinfo/gsmd-devel yet? |
| 22:11.41 | stefan_schmidt | koen: wow, first I like to see a openmoko images booting on ezx. |
| 22:11.52 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I'm already on it. |
| 22:12.41 | stefan_schmidt | koen: I'll take a look into add moto vendor plugin for ts0710 after fosdem |
| 22:13.06 | stefan_schmidt | aarg, that remains me that I need to get my slides ready. :( |
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| 22:15.37 | Kaco | anyway |
| 22:15.54 | Kaco | i'm worried about GPS .... if it's going to be supported by linux kernel .... there are no GPS apps for Linux |
| 22:15.59 | Kaco | anybody plans to write it? or? |
| 22:16.10 | Kaco | there was some opensource GPS mapping project, can't find it right now .... |
| 22:16.10 | koen | what has gps todo with the linux kernel? |
| 22:16.19 | Kaco | GPS chip support |
| 22:16.22 | Kaco | i meant :) |
| 22:16.38 | koen | what has a gps chip todo with the linux kernel? |
| 22:16.39 | Kaco | you know when you install Linux on some PDA/phone ... usually half of hardware is not working there |
| 22:16.52 | Kaco | there's a driver in kernel? |
| 22:16.58 | koen | it's attached to the serial port, no kernel driver needed |
| 22:17.03 | Kaco | ah |
| 22:17.06 | Kaco | really? |
| 22:17.09 | koen | yes |
| 22:17.10 | Kaco | that's clever |
| 22:17.19 | Kaco | but still it's inside the phone right? |
| 22:17.39 | Kaco | ok so it's like standard GPS interface? |
| 22:17.55 | Kaco | so the only thing needed is some GPS app for Linux |
| 22:17.57 | Elrond | Kaco - "maemo-mapper" I heard... no URL. |
| 22:18.11 | koen | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/maemo-mapper |
| 22:18.40 | Kaco | ok |
| 22:18.50 | Kaco | thanks |
| 22:18.56 | Elrond | Kaco - a gps app, that works with gpsd. |
| 22:19.09 | CM | Kaco: For maps, look at this effort: www.openstreetmap.org |
| 22:19.39 | Elrond | Someone was porting meamo-mapper to gtk for getting it to OM. |
| 22:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko Victor_ (n=chatzill@ANantes-151-1-160-224.w86-199.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 22:20.40 | Victor_ | hello |
| 22:20.51 | Victor_ | http://www.fourmigration.com/link.php?pid=15&cont=5 |
| 22:21.04 | Kaco | CM, thanks, that's what I was looking for |
| 22:21.06 | Elrond | spam? |
| 22:21.33 | Elrond | Kaco - If you have questions on Openstreetmap... :) |
| 22:21.38 | Victor_ | no nw game |
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| 22:22.11 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: http://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=197 comments welcome |
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| 22:22.37 | Elrond | koen - You have segments? |
| 22:22.51 | Kaco | Elrond, well I'm just wondering if there's real usage for those on OpenMoko |
| 22:22.56 | koen | Elrond: yes |
| 22:24.03 | Elrond | koen - Choose select-tool; Shift - Select the segments you want to make a road from; Choose "way"-tool; Click 'Yes', when asked, if you want to convert n segments to way.; Go tagging the way; done. |
| 22:24.07 | *** part/#openmoko NAiL (n=repvik@nslu2-linux/pdpc.active.NAiL) |
| 22:24.40 | koen | Elrond: ehm, that looks like it's designed by a motorola engineer |
| 22:24.50 | koen | why can't there be a button for that? |
| 22:25.11 | koen | select with mouse -> [road] and *voila* |
| 22:25.15 | Elrond | koen - Alternatively: select nothing; choose "Way"-tool; Add segments by clicking segments. |
| 22:25.38 | stefan_schmidt | heh, that's why I was talking about a easy client. It takes me hours to get something working. That sucks |
| 22:26.04 | Elrond | There's a qt based client out there. |
| 22:26.27 | Elrond | I helped fixing some bugs in it. |
| 22:27.04 | Elrond | But the real answer is: There is no good GUI paradigm for this thing, that fits all needs. |
| 22:28.26 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: The client I like to see for openmoko is one with a minimum user interactions. |
| 22:29.18 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - It will be hard. |
| 22:29.58 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: I know, but we should at least try our best. |
| 22:30.08 | Elrond | Yep. |
| 22:31.02 | Elrond | What I fear a bit: More crap data in osm. I already am cleaning behind the guy, who did most of the "get the gps data" for my city. |
| 22:32.40 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: Yeah, that right. Same problem for wikis. You need a critical mass from users acting as moderator and cleaning up the mess of others. |
| 22:33.02 | SpeedEvil | The only real way to fix that is multiple users have to enter the same data before it gets validated. |
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| 22:33.41 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: Of course one way, but also slows down the process. |
| 22:34.15 | Elrond | It's hard to moderate, really. |
| 22:35.11 | Elrond | And entering the data two times isn't easy either. Start out with gps coord accuracy; end with tagging freedom. ;) |
| 22:36.16 | SpeedEvil | This is why map databases are expensive :) |
| 22:38.40 | koen | Elrond: so what happens after I made a 'way' and hit 'upload'? |
| 22:39.12 | spikebik1 | some map databases are free |
| 22:39.46 | Elrond | koen - It's put in the db. That's it. |
| 22:41.49 | koen | Elrond: what do I have to do to get it visible on http://www.openstreetmap.org/index.html ? |
| 22:42.00 | denis^da | I got a question. Is it allowed to post screenshots from MacOS apps in order to user them as reference for the look and feel of the phone ? |
| 22:42.28 | cjb | of course. |
| 22:42.52 | denis^da | ok thanks. I wasn't sure because of copyright stuff |
| 22:43.17 | cjb | copyright doesn't do what you think it does :) |
| 22:43.33 | Elrond | koen - Depends on which layer (click the "+" in the upper right) you want to see it on. |
| 22:43.40 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:44.17 | denis^da | cjb, kk :) |
| 22:44.34 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:45.27 | Elrond | <PROTECTED> |
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| 22:56.34 | koen | Elrond: is there an osm viewer that downloads osm's based on your currentpositions and makes a SVG out of it? |
| 22:56.54 | koen | preferably a SGVtiny SVG |
| 22:59.05 | Elrond | What is SGVtiny? |
| 22:59.23 | Elrond | I don't know of such a viewer. |
| 22:59.47 | Elrond | It could be hacked around osmarender4, which produces large svgs. ;) |
| 22:59.54 | Elrond | (but quite pretty.) |
| 23:00.49 | koen | svgtiny is a subset of svg |
| 23:01.06 | koen | Elrond: http://www.w3.org/TR/SVGMobile/ |
| 23:01.33 | koen | "The first profile, SVG Tiny, is defined to be suitable for cellphones; the second profile, SVG Basic, is suitable for PDAs." |
| 23:02.11 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 23:02.34 | koen | something like gpsdrive, but with osm maps |
| 23:03.12 | Elrond | osmarenders SVG is heavy, I think. It looks good in inkscape, but not that pretty in firefox. |
| 23:03.45 | Elrond | koen - I think, some navi-apps for linux are trying to get to osm. But I odon't know much about it. |
| 23:04.25 | koen | anyway, ZZZZZ time |
| 23:04.30 | koen | 'night all |
| 23:04.34 | Elrond | Night koen. |
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| 23:34.10 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: *nod* commented on 197 |
| 23:35.27 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: thanks |
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