| 00:00.17 | LetoTo | hmm its' compiling gcc twice? |
| 00:00.54 | stefan_schmidt | native and cross |
| 00:02.17 | LetoTo | my native compile wasnt good enough to build a cross compiler ? :P |
| 00:04.54 | *** part/#openmoko ctuffli (i=0c921a04@gateway/web/cgi-irc/ircatwork.com/x-0a47fa83f67152d0) |
| 00:05.40 | stefan_schmidt | LetoTo: The whole embedded business lives from well known states. :) |
| 00:12.07 | rep | mmh okay i tried to find the problem myself - but i don't get it... package gta01-kernel-2.6 it wants to fetch the patches but complains about not being able to find revision 11 |
| 00:13.06 | rep | i already tried the bb files but i am not quite into OE/bitbake - at least until now... |
| 00:17.09 | LetoTo | hmm my compile is still running. but i have to go have dinner now. damn :P |
| 00:17.16 | LetoTo | and i didnt run it from a screen |
| 00:17.50 | rep | ctrl+z =) |
| 00:17.55 | rep | then hibernate the machine |
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| 00:22.24 | LetoTo | i want it to keep going :P |
| 00:22.40 | LetoTo | It's my desktop. as long as it doesnt see more rej files that requires human interaction |
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| 00:53.45 | LetoTo | Saving to: `/usr/local/movies/openmoko/sources/linux-2.6.17.14.tar.bz2' |
| 00:53.54 | LetoTo | ok, time to leave my compile alone for the rest of today :P |
| 00:59.51 | alphaone | :-) |
| 01:09.24 | LaF0rge | rep: SRCDATE is wrong |
| 01:10.01 | LaF0rge | rep: somehow the preferred_version for gta01-kernel doesn't seem to get respected in your setup |
| 01:11.20 | alphaone | That asound.state is *huge*.. |
| 01:12.45 | rep | LaF0rge: i fixed it the dirty way by falling back to a patches archive - for now... any idea where i could find the source for that problem? |
| 01:14.21 | pjz | hrm |
| 01:14.38 | pjz | anyone know why mokodesktop.c:(.text+0x48): undefined reference to `mb_util_get_homedir' |
| 01:14.41 | pjz | ? |
| 01:20.29 | pjz | Full error message at http://pastebin.ca/356360 |
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| 01:28.59 | cjb | Huh. Is OpenMoko a company? |
| 01:29.12 | pjz | no. openmoko is a software stack. |
| 01:29.13 | cjb | from the source: |
| 01:29.14 | cjb | * (C) 2006-2007 by OpenMoko, Inc. |
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| 01:29.28 | pjz | ah, hrm. good point. Have to ask them about that. |
| 01:29.44 | pjz | anyone got a hint about http://pastebin.ca/356360 ? |
| 01:35.07 | alphaone | OpenMoko, Inc. is a spin off of FIC |
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| 01:40.07 | LaF0rge | there also is a company, yes |
| 01:40.25 | LaF0rge | a legal body to represent the project |
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| 01:41.35 | spikebik1 | counter |
| 01:41.35 | aloril | P0: 2 weeks 10:18:24 (8.429 - 14.429 days); P1: 30.429 - 45.429; P2: 198.429 - 228.429 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (331) |
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| 01:41.49 | paravoid | (neo1973-unrelated) I'm trying to make gsmd work with an option globetrotter gprs card |
| 01:42.17 | pjz | any hints why my build might have failed? http://pastebin.ca/356360 is the failmsg |
| 01:42.50 | paravoid | it's not exactly a phone but I think it's following gsm07.07 |
| 01:43.50 | paravoid | the first problem, after commenting out ticalypso's initialization commands, is that I don't get a PIN event and I must enter the PIN manually (either using atcmd or by modifying shell to add a new command) |
| 01:43.55 | paravoid | any ideas? |
| 01:44.10 | paravoid | and sorry for asking neo-unrelated questions on the first day :) |
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| 02:01.02 | stefan_schmidt | night all |
| 02:03.08 | rwhitby | night stefan_schmidt |
| 02:03.56 | alphaone | night |
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| 02:11.29 | rwhitby | LaF0rge: did you see my note about OSUOSL? We've got some contacts there that might help you get a mirror site there. |
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| 03:03.04 | gw280 | how would I go about compiling the openmoko gui on my desktop? |
| 03:09.46 | jaebird | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC |
| 03:16.52 | gw280 | hrm, it seems to want the ipkg headers |
| 03:19.08 | LetoTo | wah. lost my connection to my house. now i cant watch my openmoko build anymore |
| 03:25.20 | LetoTo | joebird: so what does <svn-checkout>src/target/OM-2007 signify? |
| 03:25.32 | LetoTo | is that the same code that bitbake has checked out? |
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| 03:31.07 | jaebird | LetoTo: I believe it is: svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007 |
| 03:34.43 | aloril | hmm.. seems we are not at /. yet and don't see any big story either (6 digs), 7% increase in nick counts from 8 days ago: |
| 03:34.45 | aloril | nick count records: 106 2006-12-04; 108 2006-12-07; 109 2006-12-12; 114 2006-12-13; 116 2006-12-20; 134 2007-01-11; 141 2007-01-12; 143 2007-01-13; 157 2007-01-15; 163 2007-01-16 ; 182 2007-01-17; 185 2007-01-19 ; 197 2007-01-20 ; 201 2007-01-21; 205 2007-01-22; 206 2007-01-23; 211 2007-01-25; 215 2007-01-26; 219 2007-02-01; 228 2007-02-05; 231 2007-02-06; 238 2007-02-13; 247 2007-02-14 |
| 03:35.40 | Zer0HiT | well i know the NE america is going crazy with snow |
| 03:36.23 | Zer0HiT | i only happened to see that source was released today after i got home this afternoon |
| 03:37.33 | aloril | still wiki was down yesterday? (only read part of irc logs and mails) I guess its going to get pretty bad with bigger attention |
| 03:41.02 | rwhitby | aloril: was only down for a very short time |
| 03:48.02 | *** join/#openmoko AwayNAiL (n=repvik@nslu2-linux/pdpc.active.NAiL) |
| 03:51.43 | LetoTo | aloril. there is some backup infrstructure now that can be thrown in |
| 03:55.05 | rwhitby | Hmm - where to get qmake from ... |
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| 04:02.21 | [g2] | rwhitby qmake I think come from qt |
| 04:03.00 | rwhitby | libqt4-dev (I've updated the wiki) |
| 04:04.00 | [g2] | rwhitby did you get you phone yet ? |
| 04:04.09 | rwhitby | [g2]: see /topic |
| 04:04.17 | rwhitby | end of the month |
| 04:04.22 | [g2] | ah |
| 04:04.47 | rwhitby | hmm - /topic has not been updated with latest delays info |
| 04:05.09 | [g2] | it's a big topic :) |
| 04:05.50 | [g2] | rwhitby do you know if they are slipping month later avialability ? |
| 04:06.56 | rwhitby | counter |
| 04:06.57 | aloril | P0: 2 weeks 07:53:03 (8.329 - 14.329 days); P1: 30.329 - 45.329; P2: 198.329 - 228.329 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (332) |
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| 04:12.04 | [g2] | counter? |
| 04:12.05 | aloril | source: http://svn.openmoko.org/ ; 2 weeks 07:47:55 (8.325 - 14.325 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, 2 weeks (30.325 - 45.325 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 2 weeks (198.325 - 228.325 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (333) |
| 04:12.59 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 04:13.48 | aloril | hmm.. 2007-02-14 18:37:15 --- mickeyl has changed the topic to: OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.org | Wiki contains Mockups, not screenshots! |
| 04:14.14 | aloril | 2007-02-14 22:29:51 --- ChanServ has changed the topic to: ...(to what it is now, back to old)... |
| 04:18.44 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-143-238-193-171.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 04:19.27 | SpeedEvil | aloril: I don't think the wiki ever went down as such. |
| 04:19.33 | SpeedEvil | It just got rather slow. |
| 04:19.52 | SpeedEvil | It'll go down when it hits /. |
| 04:20.09 | SpeedEvil | What would be handy would be a .tar.gz of the whole wiki. |
| 04:20.25 | SpeedEvil | On a seperate server, updated every 6 hours or so. |
| 04:20.35 | SpeedEvil | Served up by bittorrent. |
| 04:22.32 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah |
| 04:23.33 | aloril | though this is another option: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 |
| 04:26.20 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 04:27.14 | rwhitby | aloril: just like to www.openmoko.org - they can find it from there (if they can't then they're not smart enough to do anything useful with the source code :-) |
| 04:27.14 | rwhitby | s/like/link/ |
| 04:28.00 | aloril | rwhitby: I guess so, better than just raw source |
| 04:42.40 | maydaytx_ | give it to us raw and wriggling |
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| 04:48.40 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, I guess at least kernel driver indeed is single touch: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/qt2410-touchscreen.patch |
| 04:49.49 | aloril | vibrator too is on/off but maybe with timing could achieve interesting effects ( gta01-vibrator.patch ) |
| 04:51.12 | alphaone | aloril: Though it seems that the vibrator is not connected on a PWM capable PIN |
| 04:52.09 | cbpage | shucks |
| 04:52.24 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 04:52.35 | cbpage | i guess at 1000hz you can still do some pwm |
| 04:52.46 | SpeedEvil | The vibrator current will swamp the extra current usage of doing it in the CPU. |
| 04:53.06 | cbpage | not even that much if you do it via kernel timers :) |
| 04:53.14 | alphaone | heh, true :-) |
| 04:53.18 | SpeedEvil | And you're not going to notice any jitter, in a device as lumpy as the vibrator. |
| 04:54.02 | SpeedEvil | I had - for some years - a trivial script to control my laptop fan, running every quarter of a second, and turning the fan on and off. |
| 04:54.25 | SpeedEvil | Worked fine, with no noticable variation apart from under load. |
| 04:54.28 | alphaone | Well, almost 6am here and oe bails out on openmoko-mainmenu |
| 04:54.36 | alphaone | I should really get to bed |
| 04:54.39 | cbpage | sleep well |
| 04:54.43 | SpeedEvil | WAve. |
| 04:54.45 | alphaone | good night |
| 04:54.46 | SpeedEvil | Goodnight. |
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| 05:14.01 | SpeedEvil | I think I've got most of it in my browser cache anyway. |
| 05:14.11 | SpeedEvil | Bittorrent would be really nice. |
| 05:15.23 | aloril | anyway, good for us ;-) |
| 05:15.42 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 05:15.47 | SpeedEvil | It's the utterly wrong solution. |
| 05:16.04 | SpeedEvil | As we want all the nice people from slashdot/digg. |
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| 06:00.01 | *** join/#openmoko sureshkumar (n=suresh@196.12.43.162) |
| 06:00.08 | sureshkumar | Hi all |
| 06:00.38 | sureshkumar | Can anyone tell me where I can find the features list of OpenMoko |
| 06:01.41 | *** part/#openmoko sureshkumar (n=suresh@196.12.43.162) |
| 06:04.36 | aloril | didn't wait for answer ;-) |
| 06:04.44 | bluelightning | 1 minute... that's gotta be a record |
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| 06:06.36 | *** part/#openmoko Alexaj_ (n=alexaj@c-68-38-202-112.hsd1.nj.comcast.net) |
| 06:08.04 | aloril | but then... I doubt this answer would have satisfied: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/gsm/src/gsmd/ ;-) |
| 06:08.40 | aloril | or maybe he found this page: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Gsmd |
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| 06:12.54 | pjz | aloril: I dunno, but I look forward to being able to install an emulator and devkit much like the palm-based ones |
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| 06:21.37 | pjz | qemu looks to be a good start |
| 06:24.50 | rwhitby | some interesting images here: http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/sean/specifications/images/ |
| 06:25.05 | rwhitby | (looks like the openmoko design specification) |
| 06:27.09 | rwhitby | and http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/graeme/neo1973-states/ |
| 06:27.32 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 06:29.19 | rwhitby | PCB placement files: http://people.gta01.hmw-consulting.de/sean_chiang/gta01bv3_placement.tar.bz2 |
| 06:29.32 | CM | rwhitby: I like the text in the application_manager.png picture ;) |
| 06:29.41 | CM | You can see they've really been in a hurry.. |
| 06:29.48 | *** join/#openmoko vininim (n=vininim@pdpc/supporter/student/vininim) |
| 06:35.47 | SpeedEvil | rwhitby: thanks! |
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| 06:55.43 | aloril | quit open project |
| 07:18.19 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
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| 07:24.18 | madwoota | <sureshkumar> Can anyone tell me where I can find the features list of OpenMoko <--- he was the one in here a while back trying to get a developer to tell him how the sms worked |
| 07:24.41 | *** join/#openmoko abacus (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
| 07:24.46 | aloril | yeah and again later some days ago for asking when source will be released |
| 07:25.53 | aloril | hmm.. in a sense development team with hardware doubles in size near end of this month ;-) |
| 07:25.53 | koen | hmmm |
| 07:25.56 | koen | bugzilla spam |
| 07:26.40 | *** part/#openmoko abacus (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
| 07:26.43 | *** join/#openmoko abacus (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
| 07:26.43 | aloril | actually... more than that? dunno how many internally actually have hardware ;-) |
| 07:27.09 | koen | 4 -> 54 (or 104) |
| 07:27.24 | *** part/#openmoko abacus (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
| 07:27.26 | *** join/#openmoko abacus (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
| 07:27.50 | koen | see commment #2: https://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=61 |
| 07:28.00 | aloril | hmm.. its interesting that they canceled windows version |
| 07:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko abacus (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
| 07:29.46 | aloril | in a sense it was "Windows is main product and OpenMoko version is experiment" -> "OpenMoko is main product" |
| 07:29.51 | aloril | well.. anyway, I get this feeling ;-) |
| 07:30.31 | *** part/#openmoko abacus (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
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| 07:31.57 | SpeedEvil | You mean the P1 batch is 50? |
| 07:32.05 | SpeedEvil | koen? |
| 07:32.15 | koen | SpeedEvil: 50 or 100 |
| 07:32.15 | buz | P0 |
| 07:32.24 | koen | p0, yes |
| 07:32.44 | SpeedEvil | Ah. Misread. |
| 07:33.48 | SpeedEvil | [A |
| 07:34.24 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 07:34.31 | abacus | does anybody got Neo1973? |
| 07:34.40 | SpeedEvil | Very few. |
| 07:34.47 | aloril | umm.. I heard P0 is 200 |
| 07:34.51 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, only several core devs. |
| 07:35.06 | aloril | counter? |
| 07:35.06 | aloril | source: http://www.openmoko.org/ ; 2 weeks 04:24:53 (8.184 - 14.184 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, 2 weeks (30.184 - 45.184 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 2 weeks (198.184 - 228.184 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (334) |
| 07:35.09 | SpeedEvil | Many more will have it at the end of the monthish. |
| 07:35.22 | SpeedEvil | And then anyone in a bit over a month. |
| 07:35.24 | abacus | i see |
| 07:36.40 | SpeedEvil | And hopefully several million in september :) |
| 07:39.44 | aloril | hehe |
| 07:40.03 | *** join/#openmoko matthsu (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
| 07:40.58 | SpeedEvil | There has been confirmation that worst case, the delay in a new P1 batch is 6 weeks or so. |
| 07:40.59 | aloril | if it runs out fast, then there might be up to 6 weeks delay before more are available |
| 07:41.44 | madwoota | "if" it runs out fast ? |
| 07:42.12 | SpeedEvil | If there is preorder a couple of weeks before, of course that knocks the delay down to 4 weeks. |
| 07:44.48 | aloril | hehe: mirror (expected capacity requirement for 2007: something like 300GB) from http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/02/14#20070214-the_first_load_peak |
| 07:45.11 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 07:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko tigert (n=tigert@nblzone-208-37.nblnetworks.fi) |
| 07:47.48 | matthsu | also, http://www.kernelplanet.org/ |
| 07:48.12 | buz | no place to put the stylus? |
| 07:48.24 | buz | now that's really broken design |
| 07:48.42 | matthsu | broken design? what do u mean? |
| 07:49.03 | buz | a stylus that cant be stored in the device will always get lost |
| 07:49.10 | madwoota | ^ |
| 07:49.33 | SpeedEvil | No, no place to put it. |
| 07:49.42 | SpeedEvil | At least in V1. |
| 07:50.11 | buz | hole in case but no place for stylus *shakesheadindisbelief* |
| 07:50.28 | tigert | that makes you think of finger usability fairly effectively ;^) |
| 07:50.33 | tigert | (hello people :) |
| 07:50.44 | koen | hey tigert |
| 07:51.01 | buz | it also means your screen will be even dirtiert |
| 07:51.26 | madwoota | and scratched from cleaning the oil off |
| 07:51.37 | SpeedEvil | Your screen never scratches. |
| 07:51.41 | tigert | sigh |
| 07:51.41 | SpeedEvil | Only the protecting film. |
| 07:51.51 | SpeedEvil | Which you can easily change. |
| 07:51.53 | tigert | all the same stories as in #maemo about screen protection ;) |
| 07:51.58 | tigert | now does it have a protective flap? :))) |
| 07:52.06 | madwoota | lol |
| 07:52.13 | tigert | it cannot possibly be used without one! |
| 07:52.17 | madwoota | didnt know it had a film |
| 07:52.17 | SpeedEvil | No. I was meaning a screen protector - a film. |
| 07:52.18 | tigert | :) |
| 07:52.27 | SpeedEvil | It doesn't - included. |
| 07:52.34 | koen | tigert: nokia.com didn't allow me to buy the advertised flap for the n800 |
| 07:52.36 | SpeedEvil | But you'd have to be insane not to put one on. |
| 07:52.43 | buz | eheh they want to sell you a new screen every month |
| 07:52.48 | koen | tigert: who ever designed teh nokia webshop doesn't want to sell stuff |
| 07:53.00 | tigert | my 770 screen is fine and I _abuse_ the device a lot |
| 07:53.07 | CM | buz: And maybe a stylus subscription ;) |
| 07:53.13 | buz | yes |
| 07:53.17 | tigert | koen: yeah, horror stories all around |
| 07:53.30 | tigert | CM: a new one sent to you in mail every month? :) |
| 07:53.38 | buz | i dont think i can buy a device that lets me lose the stylus so easily |
| 07:53.52 | CM | Yes, while I keep looking for the one I've just lost ;) |
| 07:53.58 | tigert | but hey, how does the build setup etc work for the openmoko? |
| 07:54.08 | tigert | do you folks use scratchbox too or something totally different? |
| 07:54.09 | *** join/#openmoko martinh (n=martinh@80.187.148.94) |
| 07:54.21 | SpeedEvil | There will probably be someone along soon with a nice case with a stylis slot. |
| 07:55.22 | tigert | hmm |
| 07:55.58 | CM | tigert: It's build with openembedded and bitbake |
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| 07:56.54 | tigert | ok |
| 07:56.54 | koen | tigert: http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch |
| 07:57.37 | tigert | do you folks have anything to run this on a desktop machine, like maemo has the scratchbox and Xephyr thing? |
| 07:57.44 | tigert | or is an actual device required? |
| 07:58.06 | SpeedEvil | Much of it can be done in X. |
| 07:58.22 | SpeedEvil | At least some of it, without even cross-compiling. |
| 07:58.46 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin (n=Harlekin@p3E9E487C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 07:59.29 | aloril | (and http://planet.openmoko.org/ ) |
| 07:59.58 | matthsu | which one is prefered environment to build openmoko? debian or ubuntu? |
| 08:00.24 | CM | tigert: Either a native build in Xoo/Xephyr or in qemu-arm |
| 08:00.41 | tigert | ok |
| 08:01.13 | CM | You change the target arch in bitbake :) |
| 08:02.07 | *** join/#openmoko denis^da (n=denis@p549BF158.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:02.22 | denis^da | good morning guys |
| 08:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-012.eplus-online.de) |
| 08:07.32 | Harlekin | how about macosx as target arch |
| 08:07.34 | Harlekin | -) |
| 08:09.01 | matthsu | it would take a long time to build opnemoko, at least 8 hours |
| 08:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko dullard (n=jim@adsl-static-1-30.uklinux.net) |
| 08:10.14 | raynet | someone should make a vmware appliance of OpenMoko toolchain and stuff precompiled |
| 08:10.30 | koen | raynet: go ahead |
| 08:11.22 | Harlekin | koen: does it build on macosx? |
| 08:11.31 | SpeedEvil | A nice completely emulated package including local GCC might be interesting. |
| 08:11.32 | raynet | koen: i might. havent had a chance to look at them yet. got a nasty fever |
| 08:12.10 | koen | raynet: I'm allergic to "someone should..." statements |
| 08:12.32 | raynet | koen: someone should do something about that allergy |
| 08:12.40 | koen | raynet: go ahead |
| 08:13.10 | aloril | anybody mind if I add link to http://www.openembedded.org/wiki/OEandYourDistro from http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch ? |
| 08:13.20 | hrw | go for it |
| 08:13.42 | koen | it's linked from GettingStarted, which is on BUIlding_om_from_scratch |
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| 08:23.03 | aloril | koen: hmmm,. it indeed is trough OpenMoko#Setting_up_an_OpenMoko_SDK link, but still... I think it makes sense for me to add it near "Gentoo users can obtain all this with" stuff anyway |
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| 08:47.30 | aloril | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch is missing link at " Start the Neo and enter the boot prompt " section to preorder page ;-) |
| 08:47.55 | koen | :D |
| 08:47.58 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 09:05.01 | rd_ | counter |
| 09:05.01 | aloril | P0: 2 weeks 02:54:58 (8.122 - 14.122 days); P1: 30.122 - 45.122; P2: 198.122 - 228.122 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (335) |
| 09:08.13 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@p85.212.175.198.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 09:08.39 | aloril | reading IRC logs: quite fast for getting OpenMoko to 2 devices: iPAQ hx4700 and HTC Universal |
| 09:09.03 | koen | aloril: that's OE for you |
| 09:10.48 | ecraven | can i build and try openmoko on my desktop? |
| 09:10.53 | hrw | yes |
| 09:11.10 | aloril | (not read logs yet, but I guess nobody yet done any Motorola phone or Nokia tablets) |
| 09:11.26 | ecraven | hrw: any howtos or tutorials on that? |
| 09:11.51 | hrw | ecraven: tried wiki? |
| 09:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko f0rked (i=f0rked@unaffiliated/f0rked) |
| 09:37.59 | *** join/#openmoko dom (n=dom@juicy.ecs.soton.ac.uk) |
| 09:39.58 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 09:41.17 | ninHer | hi all |
| 09:49.51 | florian_ | good morning |
| 09:52.38 | *** join/#openmoko arunp (i=arun@nat/cisco/x-4ff5e29629339319) |
| 09:54.04 | aloril | 3 related to this release at digg now, but all are single digit yet: http://www.digg.com/search?s=moko&submit=Search§ion=news&type=both&area=all&age=7&sort=new |
| 09:57.38 | *** join/#openmoko zecke|uni (n=ich@rosine105.inf.fu-berlin.de) |
| 10:00.58 | fluffs | morning all |
| 10:01.17 | koen | hey fluffs |
| 10:01.52 | *** join/#openmoko jim_rayner (n=jim_rayn@beyondvoice.plus.com) |
| 10:02.39 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-137-089.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:03.40 | *** join/#openmoko accumulator (n=accu@82-170-119-175.dsl.ip.tiscali.nl) |
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| 10:05.25 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 10:05.41 | LuitvD | mornin' |
| 10:06.25 | florian | hi fluffs |
| 10:09.18 | *** part/#openmoko matthsu (n=matt@202-145-72-125.adsl.ttn.net) |
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| 10:12.47 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 10:26.32 | accumulator | hi all |
| 10:28.54 | LuitvD | hello |
| 10:33.11 | *** join/#openmoko woglinde (n=heinold@leningrad.mi.fu-berlin.de) |
| 10:36.42 | *** join/#openmoko fabiand (n=fabiand@p54892423.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 10:37.00 | fabiand | hello is the neo1973 available yet? |
| 10:37.04 | accumulator | I'm having trouble getting my environment straight |
| 10:37.05 | koen | fabiand: no |
| 10:37.26 | fabiand | koen, hmm okay - i sthere some date when it will be released? |
| 10:37.26 | accumulator | ipkgapi.c wont compile |
| 10:37.45 | woglinde | fabiand hopefully int end of ferbruary |
| 10:37.58 | koen | fabiand: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-February/000003.html |
| 10:38.52 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-125-231-206.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 10:39.24 | buz | woglinde: end of march |
| 10:39.54 | accumulator | I did install libipkg from source, and added the include path, but it chokes on ‘ipkg_cb_message’ undeclared |
| 10:40.10 | koen | accumulator: did you use OE? |
| 10:40.25 | woglinde | buz :) |
| 10:40.30 | accumulator | no I followed the 'How to run OpenMoko Apps on PC' |
| 10:40.42 | koen | accumulator: there's the problem |
| 10:40.46 | accumulator | ok |
| 10:40.51 | koen | accumulator: I suspect that fails to mention that you need to patch ipkg |
| 10:41.01 | accumulator | koen: indeed |
| 10:41.17 | accumulator | it's just a simple 'run qmake' howto |
| 10:41.18 | koen | accumulator: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/ipkg/files/is-processing.patch |
| 10:41.30 | fabiand | koen, thanks |
| 10:41.32 | koen | accumulator: if that works, could you update the wiki? |
| 10:41.33 | buz | i wonder how long it will take for the flash to go bad with all that upgrading |
| 10:41.42 | accumulator | koen: thanks, will check it out |
| 10:42.24 | zecke|uni | buz: after all 2G networks were shutdown and aliens took over our planet |
| 10:42.28 | woglinde | buz which flash? |
| 10:43.25 | buz | the 64mb nand in neo |
| 10:44.06 | woglinde | hm 2 years? |
| 10:44.27 | koen | 100k write/cell, right? |
| 10:44.35 | buz | should |
| 10:44.41 | buz | hopefully jffs2 balances well |
| 10:44.45 | woglinde | koen nobody really knows |
| 10:45.00 | zecke|uni | buz: the only broken flash I have ever witnessed was in woglinde's simpad |
| 10:45.11 | woglinde | ppfffff |
| 10:45.41 | buz | best would be to simply use hardware write balanced flash thingies |
| 10:45.48 | woglinde | hm my first task in the holidays will be getting phoneME run on the simpad |
| 10:46.14 | accumulator | koen: not solved. same error, chokes on the extern definition; |
| 10:46.19 | accumulator | src/ipkgapi.c:72: error: expected ‘=’, ‘,’, ‘;’, ‘asm’ or ‘__attribute__’ before ‘ipkg_cb_message’ |
| 10:46.35 | koen | accumulator: did you patch .163 or something else? |
| 10:46.36 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 10:46.42 | accumulator | .163 for tarball |
| 10:46.46 | koen | hmmm |
| 10:46.47 | accumulator | s/for/from/ |
| 10:46.49 | koen | that should work |
| 10:46.55 | zecke|uni | woglinde: leave your work now, and come here... or should I utilize my sith power? |
| 10:47.07 | woglinde | zecke okay |
| 10:47.09 | accumulator | I thought so ;) |
| 10:47.11 | woglinde | will write one email |
| 10:48.07 | koen | accumulator: did you try a make clean? |
| 10:48.14 | accumulator | yep just did |
| 10:49.01 | accumulator | I prefixed PATH with /usr/share/qt4/bin, is that enough to force qt4 qmake to be used? |
| 10:50.28 | zecke|uni | accumulator: which qmake says what? |
| 10:50.42 | koen | woglinde: TT, enough said |
| 10:50.50 | zecke|uni | woglinde: debian, the ancient word for I can't configure Qt |
| 10:50.55 | woglinde | hm |
| 10:50.59 | accumulator | zecke|uni: trying to compile OM-2007 tree, but fails |
| 10:51.13 | woglinde | tought the but than under /usr/lib |
| 10:51.18 | woglinde | will look at home |
| 10:51.29 | zecke|uni | accumulator: didn't the readme say that the qmake system needs work? |
| 10:51.52 | zecke|uni | accumulator: http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/README it did |
| 10:53.31 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:53.43 | koen | accumulator: https://bugzilla.openmoko.org/cgi-bin/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=187 |
| 10:53.45 | accumulator | zecke|uni: the gcc lines it executes seem ok |
| 10:57.25 | *** join/#openmoko bedboi (n=bedboi@c3lab.poliba.it) |
| 10:57.29 | bedboi | hi there. |
| 10:57.42 | bedboi | there is really a lot of people here :) |
| 11:02.07 | aloril | hi bedboi |
| 11:04.44 | robtaylor | hey bedboi :) |
| 11:05.13 | bedboi | i really need a neo1973 |
| 11:06.45 | Stephmw | [politics] ... nice quote.. http://yro.slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=222474&cid=18020752 |
| 11:07.40 | *** join/#openmoko LinuxCart (n=kvirc@87.218.10.152) |
| 11:12.40 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 11:15.10 | aloril | bedboi: get in line for P1 march release ;-) |
| 11:15.31 | bedboi | ok |
| 11:15.50 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@200-171-140-32.dsl.telesp.net.br) |
| 11:23.13 | Psi_ | aloril, you really think it will still be march? |
| 11:23.42 | aloril | Psi_: that is still 1 month after P0 ;-) |
| 11:24.07 | Psi_ | yeah, but with the delays with P0, i would expect P1 to be pushed back |
| 11:24.15 | aloril | Psi_: but yeah, it could be later too, we will see (before there is any world otherwise, counter can stay that way) |
| 11:24.40 | Psi_ | have they shipped the P0 phones yet? |
| 11:24.50 | koen | Psi_: no |
| 11:24.53 | aloril | Psi_: well.. P0: 2007-02-11 -> 2007-02-2?, so .. P1: 2007-03-11 -> 2007-03-2? too |
| 11:25.01 | koen | or rather, I have no tracking number yet |
| 11:25.02 | Psi_ | well, it will probably be a month after they ship them then |
| 11:25.15 | Psi_ | thats my educated guess |
| 11:25.53 | aloril | however, source has been released, that might help so its 3 weeks instead of 1 month after P0 |
| 11:26.50 | Psi_ | they should probably take this message off http://openmoko.org/ |
| 11:27.31 | Psi_ | lol, that was quick |
| 11:28.08 | koen | Psi_: probably your browser cache |
| 11:28.21 | Psi_ | possible |
| 11:32.48 | noidd | koen: I'd figure you'd get at least an email about dispatch |
| 11:34.40 | noidd | so I would also assume that they're on winging their way around the world |
| 11:34.51 | noidd | :-) |
| 11:38.14 | Psi_ | have they said that they have posted them? |
| 11:38.46 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 11:46.39 | koen | hmmm |
| 11:46.43 | koen | europe wakes up |
| 11:47.03 | robtaylor | yoyo koen |
| 11:47.19 | koen | hey robtaylor |
| 11:47.41 | robtaylor | looks like we did some good work for the pixmaps stuff :) |
| 11:47.59 | robtaylor | lets hope plana can get it running a hella lot faster :) |
| 11:48.52 | koen | yes |
| 11:49.26 | xkr47 | ?--) |
| 11:49.52 | koen | I'm at a point where I can't distinguish between toolchain problems and downstream problems |
| 11:50.11 | xkr47 | get superman vision |
| 11:50.44 | buz | so has anyone got a qemu or vmware image? |
| 11:51.01 | buz | so the time constrained can take a look? |
| 11:51.10 | koen | buz: check the download site |
| 11:51.56 | *** join/#openmoko |dion| (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 11:53.13 | buz | uhm and where do those live? |
| 11:53.32 | koen | https://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/ |
| 11:53.41 | *** join/#openmoko veroli (n=oliver@BSN-95-206-165.dsl.siol.net) |
| 11:56.02 | accumulator | koen: the reason for not compiling might be that 'make install' for ipkg doesn't install libipkg.pc in a pkg-config dir |
| 11:56.38 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B04180.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:58.40 | xkr47 | what's the gt2410 ?-) |
| 11:58.44 | hrw | "My phone can hack your phone" - nice quote :) |
| 11:58.53 | hrw | xkr47: chinese clone of smdk2410 |
| 11:59.06 | hrw | xkr47: developer board in other words. rest in wiki |
| 11:59.08 | koen | that's the qt2410 |
| 11:59.49 | xkr47 | hrw ok thx |
| 12:01.49 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 12:06.29 | robtaylor | is it me or is the svn stuff in http://wiki.openmoko.org/index.php?title=Talk:Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 complete crack |
| 12:06.32 | robtaylor | ? |
| 12:06.33 | rwhitby | buz: did you find any qemu of vmware images there? |
| 12:06.41 | buz | not really |
| 12:06.55 | koen | qemu can boot .ext2 images as well |
| 12:06.56 | *** join/#openmoko ENd (i=user@r236058158.resnet.cornell.edu) |
| 12:07.03 | buz | i didnt find those either |
| 12:07.05 | buz | maybe i'm stupid |
| 12:07.24 | buz | there should be an images directory for those if you ask me |
| 12:07.33 | rwhitby | buz: https://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/gta01-20070201/tmp/deploy/images/ |
| 12:07.43 | buz | yeah thats not really obvious |
| 12:07.45 | koen | robtaylor: I think you can ignore the pre BBT stuff |
| 12:07.47 | buz | to go look in tmp hehehe |
| 12:08.04 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:08.08 | rwhitby | buz: it presupposes some OE knowledge |
| 12:08.30 | rwhitby | (which is why I checked whether you found them OK or not) |
| 12:08.31 | buz | ok that machine pushes 600K/s my way |
| 12:08.43 | buz | obviously bandwidth it has enough |
| 12:09.09 | koen | 40MB/s peaks suggest Gbit uplink |
| 12:09.36 | robtaylor | koen: is there any other places where they suggest makeing a flase svn script with --username passed in? |
| 12:09.45 | robtaylor | that really noobie |
| 12:09.50 | koen | robtaylor: I hope not |
| 12:09.55 | robtaylor | godthe wiki is slow |
| 12:09.57 | koen | robtaylor: .svnrc? |
| 12:10.05 | robtaylor | indeed |
| 12:10.15 | robtaylor | or just checkout with --username --password.. |
| 12:10.35 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 12:10.41 | buz | oh the machines live at hetzner |
| 12:10.44 | buz | that explains it ;) |
| 12:10.50 | koen | mentally doing s/cvs/svn/ hasn't failed me sofar |
| 12:14.06 | morricone | no, it's probably slow because it got mentioned on an major german news site |
| 12:14.21 | koen | it's slow because mediawiki is slow |
| 12:15.26 | morricone | and apache |
| 12:15.46 | hrw | morricone: and linux |
| 12:17.38 | koen | hmmm |
| 12:17.54 | morricone | something like http://www.lighttpd.net/ would be better |
| 12:17.55 | hrw | hi lardman |
| 12:18.04 | koen | no, cherokee would be better |
| 12:18.06 | hrw | morricone: thttpd is even better |
| 12:18.24 | *** join/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 12:19.17 | buz | lighttpd and php-fcgi usually beat mod_php in my tests |
| 12:21.35 | *** part/#openmoko SirCrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 12:26.31 | koen | http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/spending-some-time-with-bugzilla :) |
| 12:31.29 | xkr47 | -Werror :) |
| 12:31.49 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 12:32.53 | hrw | xkr47: whats funny? |
| 12:34.36 | xkr47 | it's a happy face, not a laughing face |
| 12:34.59 | accumulator | :D |
| 12:35.23 | xkr47 | s/face/smiley/ |
| 12:36.04 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 12:38.05 | rwhitby | e.g. "openmoko? oh, isn't that the phone software that slashdot said had more bugs in it than windows?" <- something we wouldn't want to see happen. Let's report the bugs, get them fixed, and not make a big deal about it. |
| 12:38.53 | CM | rwhitby: Well said. Something for the mailinglist maybe? :) |
| 12:39.30 | rwhitby | night all |
| 12:40.19 | accumulator | do I need a specific version of alsa? the compiler bails out with /usr/include/alsa/timer.h:108: error: field ‘tstamp’ has incomplete type |
| 12:41.24 | hrw | accumulator: you NEED to use OpenMoko recipes |
| 12:41.43 | accumulator | so i need OE regardless if I want to crosscompile? |
| 12:42.02 | hrw | accumulator: want to get something working or not? |
| 12:42.10 | accumulator | heh |
| 12:42.34 | hrw | accumulator: OE contain patches, tweaks to get it done |
| 12:42.45 | hrw | handmade buildsystems are past |
| 12:42.57 | hrw | btw: "movie" is en_US not en_GB? |
| 12:43.00 | accumulator | still learning ;) |
| 12:45.35 | Stephmw | imo, "film" is en_GB |
| 12:45.35 | *** join/#openmoko worch (n=lucian@74-134-231-43.dhcp.insightbb.com) |
| 12:47.34 | hrw | or theatre even (found on imdb) |
| 12:48.39 | buz | mhh theatre the word for cinema i believe |
| 12:48.52 | buz | not for film itself? |
| 12:51.29 | *** part/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 12:54.48 | Stephmw | buz: we use Cinema+film in London... too many Theatres (live performances) around :) |
| 12:55.05 | buz | yeah thats how i would use the words myself |
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| 13:11.18 | sircrow | ? |
| 13:14.49 | *** join/#openmoko BlackFog (n=office@lehrer.lehrer.uni-karlsruhe.de) |
| 13:14.59 | BlackFog | hi @ll |
| 13:15.09 | sircrow | Hi |
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| 13:21.11 | rboehme | counter |
| 13:21.12 | aloril | P0: a week, 6 days 22:38:48 (7.944 - 13.944 days); P1: 29.944 - 44.944; P2: 197.944 - 227.944 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (336) |
| 13:21.48 | sircrow | "/msg aloril counter? |
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| 13:26.08 | *** join/#openmoko kimuSan^ (n=kimusan@ip205.tankegang.dk) |
| 13:26.18 | kimuSan^ | hi |
| 13:27.55 | kimuSan^ | just saw that the openmoko.org site was up. Did not find any info about when the neo will be available for developers and what the price will be. |
| 13:29.25 | ecraven | about 1 month (probably a bit more), price was given as 350$ a few weeks ago |
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| 13:29.57 | kimuSan^ | sweet. |
| 13:30.10 | kimuSan^ | available worldwide or? |
| 13:30.22 | ecraven | i think so |
| 13:31.12 | kimuSan^ | nice. |
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| 13:38.01 | Elrond | Which mailinglist is for kernel related stuff on the neo? |
| 13:38.13 | stefan_schmidt | openmoko-kernel |
| 13:43.19 | hrw | http://www.hrw.one.pl/2007/02/15/valentineswopenmoko-day/ |
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| 13:48.30 | Elrond | Hmmm. When I get home, I'll help the wiki a bit. :) |
| 13:48.41 | kimuSan^ | sweet. the neo uses the BC4 for bluetooth |
| 13:50.12 | LaF0rge | kimy: thanks to marcel holtmann's suggestion |
| 13:50.34 | hrw | ~hail MH |
| 13:50.44 | apt | ACTION bows down to MH and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 13:51.07 | kimuSan^ | LaF0rge: best on the market (until the bc5 is out :-) ) |
| 13:51.19 | holtmann | And so does the new Nokia N800. |
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| 13:52.03 | holtmann | The BlueCore5 is not really different to the BlueCore4. Except you wanna have FM radio. |
| 13:52.08 | hrw | holtmann: did you tested a2dp? |
| 13:52.41 | holtmann | I stepped out of A2DP stuff some time ago. Brad and some guys from PalmSource are working on it. |
| 13:52.46 | LaF0rge | does anyone know where rtpnet.nerim.net/ipaq/patches moved to? |
| 13:53.22 | fluffs | tried www.rtp-net.org ? |
| 13:53.33 | rtp | LaF0rge: http://www.rtp-net.org/ipaq/patches/ |
| 13:53.36 | kimuSan^ | holtmann: well and a bit of other things. but yes it can seem the same. |
| 13:55.05 | rtp | LaF0rge: FYI, there's also git tree available :) |
| 13:55.18 | holtmann | All Bluetooth stuff will fall magically into place in the next few month. Only the UI will be different on the embedded devices. |
| 13:55.18 | hrw | shit.. forgot that logitech bt2.0 dongle + hid2hci == fscked mouse |
| 13:56.02 | fluffs | LaF0rge: i've had a quick look over the patches, but been busy sorting out SMDK2443... is it ok to do some cherry-picking of stuff later on today? |
| 13:57.32 | kimuSan^ | holtmann: you're the one in charge of the bt things in openmoko? |
| 13:58.07 | LaF0rge | rt: are you now maintaining s3c2410_udc ? |
| 13:58.14 | hrw | kimuSan^: he is BT Linux maintainer, not only in openmoko |
| 13:58.50 | fluffs | LaF0rge: i've been cleaning it up lately |
| 13:59.06 | kimuSan^ | hrw: I know who he is :-) just wanted to know if he was here as a maintainer or just interest :-) |
| 13:59.20 | hrw | ;D |
| 13:59.27 | LaF0rge | fluffs: sure, just go ahead. but please tell me before you submit mainline, some things might not be in their ideal shape yet ;;) |
| 13:59.30 | LaF0rge | rtp: are you now maintaining s3c2410_udc ? |
| 13:59.46 | fluffs | LaF0rge: too late for this kernel release for new drivers |
| 13:59.57 | rtp | LaF0rge: yes |
| 14:00.20 | holtmann | kimuSan^: I am not in charge. I only try to make it work. |
| 14:01.08 | LaF0rge | rtp: ok |
| 14:01.19 | LaF0rge | fluffs: I'm not talking about 2.6.21 anyway |
| 14:01.39 | LaF0rge | fluffs: would you mind subscribing to openmoko-kernel? |
| 14:01.46 | fluffs | ok |
| 14:03.42 | kimuSan^ | holtmann: ok. |
| 14:06.08 | fluffs | ok, i've replied to subscribe |
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| 15:49.49 | aloril | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-look-the-antiiphone-openmokos-neo1973-236841.php |
| 15:52.44 | noidd | nice |
| 15:52.52 | aloril | "The idea is to collaborate with developers who will create all the basic apps. OpenMoko/FIC will then certify a bundle of those apps and mass market them with the phone along with support. |
| 15:52.56 | aloril | The developers will be rewarded with some kind of revenue sharing deal for the software sold by OpenMoko. Power users will always have the ability to get freeware apps from the community as well." |
| 15:53.10 | aloril | so some of business plan is revealed |
| 15:54.05 | CM | Hehe.. "Product manager Sean Moss-Pultz promised to send video today, but our BS meter immediately hit the red." |
| 15:55.09 | kimuSan^ | yep |
| 15:55.22 | noidd | its not a new model |
| 15:55.23 | aloril | "they can always download source, compile it and run it" ;-) |
| 15:55.33 | noidd | people pay for the "certified" versions of free software |
| 15:55.43 | *** join/#openmoko wiking_ (n=wiking@dsl51B799B4.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:55.53 | noidd | ie, they pay someone to verify and warrant that they won't have compatibility issuies with otehr apps. |
| 15:56.01 | kimuSan^ | gizmodo is however apple fanboys so everything not apple often get alot of bad comments |
| 15:56.26 | aloril | s/they/article writer/ |
| 15:56.32 | kimuSan^ | aloril: sure |
| 15:57.21 | *** join/#openmoko rburton (n=ross@althur.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 15:58.17 | CM | I think the endnote was quite positive: "But given the sorry state of handsets and phone platforms today, we'd be crazy not to champion open software efforts like this one." |
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| 16:00.18 | dneary | Congrats on the release! |
| 16:00.26 | rburton | hi dneary |
| 16:00.41 | dneary | hi rburton fancy meeting you here |
| 16:00.45 | rburton | :) |
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| 16:01.41 | fluffs | right, smdk2443 out of the way |
| 16:01.45 | rburton | koen: there? |
| 16:02.14 | aloril | less interesting, but new article too: http://www.onecompare.com/mobile-news/article-asp~aid~244~pub~56321102~story~openmoko-launch-the-official-portal-for-development-of-the-openmoko-platform |
| 16:03.17 | CM | aloril: adding the links to the wiki or should I? |
| 16:03.33 | xkr47 | anyone started porting openmoko to some other phones yet ? |
| 16:03.50 | CM | xkr47: Koen, look at his blog |
| 16:03.52 | stefan_schmidt | CM: wiki is for adding the stuff your own. No need to ask |
| 16:04.15 | stefan_schmidt | CM: If you add bad things, they will be reverted. :) |
| 16:04.26 | xkr47 | nice |
| 16:04.26 | CM | stefan_schmidt: Sure, I'm trying right now :) |
| 16:04.33 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: We start ezx stuff next week |
| 16:04.44 | xkr47 | stefan_schmidt, great |
| 16:04.51 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: First prblem is 320x240 |
| 16:05.09 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: It already shows up a gui on a htc universal. |
| 16:05.09 | xkr47 | openmoko site should have a paypal button :) |
| 16:05.21 | newmedian | how about a preorder button. ;) |
| 16:05.23 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: same res. Ask goxboxlive for details |
| 16:05.23 | xkr47 | stefan_schmidt, :)) |
| 16:05.34 | dottedmag | aloril: author of the article was drunk. 'OpenMoki', 'Plant OpenMoko', |
| 16:05.43 | aloril | dottedmag: hehe |
| 16:05.51 | SpeedEvil | (currently blank) |
| 16:06.08 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: Openmoko INc. Should have enough money. Donate money to devs which work you like |
| 16:06.28 | xkr47 | yeah.. so there should be a plethora of paypal buttons then ;) |
| 16:06.38 | xkr47 | paypals.openmoko.org ;) |
| 16:06.41 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: Let me rephrase. Openmoko inc. have a business model. |
| 16:06.53 | xkr47 | :) |
| 16:07.12 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: Some of the devs already have paypal buttons on their private websites |
| 16:08.09 | newmedian | So perhaps paypal links next to each developer name on summary devs page? |
| 16:08.17 | xkr47 | mickey_away, congrats on opening up the stuff! |
| 16:08.42 | xkr47 | <some_developer> but I don't use paypal.. |
| 16:08.53 | xkr47 | <bwfh> you do now |
| 16:09.13 | stefan_schmidt | newmedian: hmm, contact the dev if you like to sponsor/donate him is better. |
| 16:09.41 | stefan_schmidt | Some even don't like donations at all. Direct contact is best here. |
| 16:09.42 | SpeedEvil | Some may have enough money from their illustrious careers, and never need to work again. |
| 16:10.07 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, :) |
| 16:11.43 | bedboi | much people i know works for free in open source in order to get a better work :) |
| 16:11.52 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 16:12.02 | SpeedEvil | You don't need a resume to work on open source. |
| 16:12.04 | bedboi | i.e. a friend of mine has been hired by vmware |
| 16:12.26 | noidd | I got a job because of my open source work |
| 16:12.31 | noidd | its good resume fodder |
| 16:12.48 | bedboi | yep |
| 16:12.50 | *** join/#openmoko lulf (n=lulf@twoflower.idi.ntnu.no) |
| 16:12.51 | noidd | Forget "internship". Open Source is the new technical apprendiceship. |
| 16:12.56 | stefan_schmidt | bedboi: If you do good work and companies see this, that's cool. |
| 16:12.57 | bedboi | yep |
| 16:13.11 | aevin | so, who was first to release the news first? slashdot or digg? |
| 16:13.20 | SpeedEvil | I don't think it has been. |
| 16:13.23 | aevin | s/first// |
| 16:13.27 | SpeedEvil | It's on digg - but not high. |
| 16:13.38 | SpeedEvil | It's not actually been slashdotted yet. |
| 16:13.42 | aevin | apt_: thanks ;-) nice feature. |
| 16:13.47 | SpeedEvil | Which is probably good. |
| 16:13.53 | leventhal | I got my internship through open source in a roundabout way |
| 16:14.16 | leventhal | Just showed up with my linux laptop and gave out source to some software tools I'd written for personal use |
| 16:14.21 | SpeedEvil | As we really want it to be on a capable platform before it does. So all the nice slashdot kiddies with $350 can wade in in 'late march'. |
| 16:14.48 | aloril | aevin: neither yet (though there are single digit entries: http://www.digg.com/search?s=moko&submit=Search§ion=news&type=both&area=all&age=7&sort=new ) |
| 16:15.06 | noidd | I need to make a bootable linux rescue disk for my business card :-P |
| 16:15.22 | leventhal | noidd: That would be awesome |
| 16:15.32 | leventhal | i may have to steal that idea |
| 16:15.38 | SpeedEvil | One of the buisness card DVDs? |
| 16:15.40 | aevin | aloril: yeah, i checked it around 11 hrs ago, then there was only one with 6 diggs. |
| 16:15.46 | aloril | SpeedEvil: doubt we can keep it secret that long ;-) |
| 16:15.48 | newmedian | I would prefer to wade in with a pre-order before the late march zerg rush |
| 16:15.54 | SpeedEvil | Me too. |
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| 16:16.43 | ozamosi | Hm... I'm trying to build OpenMoKo according to the instructions in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Building_OpenMoko_from_scratch_%28pre-BBT%29 and it doesn't work (I get "DISTRO 'openmoko' not found." and similar errors when trying to build it). Am I reading the wrong documentation, are the instructions broken, or is the problem somewhere between the keyboard and my chair? |
| 16:16.51 | aloril | well.. we will probably know about preorder before /. & digg too, just like with source code |
| 16:17.01 | *** join/#openmoko the_sys0p (n=the_sys0@cpe-72-129-85-39.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 16:17.03 | SpeedEvil | If the preorders start early enough, then they can get well underway with the batch of second phones. |
| 16:17.22 | aloril | SpeedEvil: hehe, what if there was preorders page in wiki, funny .. |
| 16:17.23 | dottedmag | where is the proper place to report the glitches on website? |
| 16:17.34 | SpeedEvil | If they open up in a week, then the second batch could be along as fast as 3 weeks after the first. |
| 16:17.54 | dottedmag | I just posted screenshot to the talkpage of wiki, but not sure anyone will ever have a look |
| 16:18.42 | rburton | aloril: several hours is about half way through on a good machine |
| 16:18.51 | aloril | just note that for fedora you need to get monotone-0.32.tar.gz |
| 16:20.06 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. I don't see a reason why 'people interested in a preorder' page is unreasonable on the wiki. |
| 16:20.13 | thresh | In addition to the traditional development tools (gcc, patch, etc.), the following packages must be installed on the build host: subversion, quilt, monotone, git |
| 16:20.17 | thresh | ROTFLMAO |
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| 16:21.04 | ozamosi | aloril: those are about the same instructions. Damn, then I'm doing something wrong :( |
| 16:21.38 | SpeedEvil | I need to order new hardware first, then do that. Jammed disk, and my GTK is 1.2.0 for example. |
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| 16:22.21 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, s/preorder/interested on preorder/ might be reasonable page |
| 16:22.48 | ozamosi | Is there supposed to do anything but a conf directory containing a 3 line local.conf-file in the build directory? |
| 16:22.53 | Magon | how match disk space take to have openmoko build? |
| 16:23.14 | morricone | aprox. 7GB |
| 16:23.20 | aloril | ozamosi: yes, see OpenEmbedded build: fixes section |
| 16:24.03 | Magon | it seems i dont have enougth disk space... |
| 16:24.07 | aloril | (not leading ../ ) |
| 16:24.10 | aloril | s/not/note/ |
| 16:24.15 | morricone | last time it got stuck on compiling gettext-native, it ran 2h then i stopped it |
| 16:24.35 | aloril | there are images here: http://buildhost.openmoko.org/releases/gta01-20070201/tmp/deploy/images/ |
| 16:24.43 | Magon | i am fetching linux-gat01 with git... |
| 16:25.47 | rburton | mickey_away: when you get back i have cunning plans for fixing dates |
| 16:25.47 | ozamosi | aloril: ah, yes, but those are "almost empty", so I don't count those :) |
| 16:26.25 | ozamosi | AFAICT, bitbake cant find $OMDIR/openmoko :( |
| 16:26.38 | CM | ozamosi: I failed to get that to build too |
| 16:27.13 | Magon | i think that not everyone will want to get sources for openmoko and compile it by himself |
| 16:27.19 | ozamosi | CM: cool! That means I'm not completely retarded! :D |
| 16:27.40 | rburton | ozamosi: was it just looping over the po files? |
| 16:27.42 | Magon | probably paid soft download will be havily used |
| 16:28.14 | Magon | if there is reasonable price |
| 16:28.59 | CM | ozamosi: on #oe this morning: 09:15 <koen> rwhitby: I'm discussing moving DISTRO=openmoko over to DISTRO=angstrom for the long term with the FIC people |
| 16:29.03 | aloril | ozamosi: did you get new bitbake? (just have a vague memory that above error might have been caused by it) |
| 16:29.05 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:29.31 | aloril | dunno what obvious thing I'm missing... probably not read enough carefully docs: |
| 16:29.33 | aloril | qemu-system-arm -kernel zImage-2.6.17.14-fic-gta01-20070130164946.bin -initrd openmoko-devel-image-fic-gta01-20070201010742.rootfs.ext2 |
| 16:29.38 | aloril | neither s/initrd/hda/ works |
| 16:29.53 | aloril | it just sits with QEMU monitor screen |
| 16:30.25 | *** part/#openmoko arunp (i=arun@nat/cisco/x-4ff5e29629339319) |
| 16:30.26 | ozamosi | aloril: apparently, I don't. I'll try that |
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| 16:39.57 | aloril | blog (3 diggs), nothing new here: http://www.joetech.com/2007/02/15/openmoko-open-source-cell-phone/ |
| 16:41.08 | aloril | "The picture of the phone above is just what the model for developers looks like. Moss-Pultz told CrunchGear he’s toying with the idea of putting in a slide-out QWERTY keyboard since he intends for the handset and the OS to be a mobile-computing platform and for the fastest possible text entry a keyboard is the logical option." : |
| 16:41.10 | aloril | http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/15/openmokos-open-source-mobile-os/ |
| 16:41.41 | aloril | so black/silver for developers? |
| 16:42.19 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 16:42.50 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:43.40 | dom | as long it's not pink |
| 16:43.55 | *** join/#openmoko rodgers (n=rodgers@billings.nlm.nih.gov) |
| 16:44.08 | aloril | even then ;-) (would probably recolor it then though) |
| 16:45.48 | rodgers | hi, rick rodgers at the U.S. National Library of Medicine here |
| 16:45.57 | rodgers | anyone patying attention to the room? ;) |
| 16:46.06 | SpeedEvil | The back of the phone is interesting. |
| 16:46.25 | SpeedEvil | If you make a new back, stretched out 5mm or so, then that adds possibilties. |
| 16:46.28 | rodgers | ah sorry to interrupt, i see there is a discussion doing on |
| 16:46.43 | rodgers | u have a battery in mind? or what? |
| 16:46.58 | dom | you mean as an bottle opener? |
| 16:47.04 | SpeedEvil | For example, a flex cable from the microSD to a full size SD/SDIO socket, with a slot on the right of the phone. |
| 16:47.24 | newmedian | ~~~ waves to rodgers, just jump in if you have a question |
| 16:47.33 | SpeedEvil | Or easily switchable multi-sims. |
| 16:48.02 | rodgers | thanks |
| 16:48.21 | rodgers | is anyone else interested in the unit having a camera? |
| 16:48.21 | aloril | There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Hardware for details on what is included. |
| 16:48.26 | SpeedEvil | rodgers. No. |
| 16:48.33 | SpeedEvil | Nobody has ever brought that up. |
| 16:48.40 | rodgers | lol |
| 16:48.46 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 16:48.55 | Magon | NOTE: Fetch svn://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel;module=patches;proto=http |
| 16:48.57 | rob__w | i dont like the keyboard idea |
| 16:48.58 | aloril | cool, it autoanswer worked |
| 16:48.59 | Magon | svn: Unable to find repository location for 'http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches' in revision 11 |
| 16:49.01 | edistar | to whom will the phone be available in march? |
| 16:49.02 | Magon | any idea? |
| 16:49.06 | SpeedEvil | late march. |
| 16:49.12 | SpeedEvil | anyone |
| 16:49.13 | rob__w | i better like to boost gtk and its apps to be real touch finger based |
| 16:49.16 | SpeedEvil | with the money. |
| 16:49.22 | edistar | how much? |
| 16:49.27 | SpeedEvil | $3500 |
| 16:49.27 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 16:49.27 | Magon | it is better not to have kayboard on-board and get stand alone one over BT |
| 16:49.28 | rodgers | we have been working with linux on iPAQs for several years |
| 16:49.30 | mjr | edistar, anyone, but you get to not complain about the bugs and fix them instead |
| 16:49.31 | SpeedEvil | s/00/0/ |
| 16:49.33 | aloril | counter? |
| 16:49.33 | aloril | source: http://www.openmoko.org/ ; a week, 6 days 19:10:26 (7.799 - 13.799 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, a week, 6 days (29.799 - 44.799 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, a week, 6 days (197.799 - 227.799 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (337) |
| 16:49.43 | edistar | I would like to fix bugs myself;) |
| 16:49.47 | rodgers | with a view toward using them for mobile videoconferencing |
| 16:49.49 | edistar | thats why I want it |
| 16:49.51 | rob__w | openmoko planned theming and ui concept really look promisiing |
| 16:50.01 | mjr | edistar, good, then buy one on (late) March :9 |
| 16:50.08 | mjr | :) |
| 16:50.11 | edistar | :) |
| 16:50.11 | ozamosi | *slap in forehead* It's stupid to try to be clever, when all scripts assume I'm not. |
| 16:50.14 | edistar | 350? |
| 16:50.28 | loufoque | rodgers: you will need 3G for mobile videoconferencing |
| 16:50.28 | edistar | is there any difficulty that I live in the Netherlands? |
| 16:50.36 | mjr | edistar, no, they will ship worldwide |
| 16:50.37 | rodgers | or 802.111 |
| 16:50.38 | SpeedEvil | edistar: no. |
| 16:50.47 | rob__w | btw i wonder how Trolltech likes this all .. they want how much ??? |
| 16:50.48 | mjr | edistar, apparently there's also an EU sales rep ready |
| 16:50.54 | rodgers | we have been using 802.11 thus far on the iPAQs |
| 16:51.00 | rodgers | some latency issues, but promising... |
| 16:51.27 | aloril | edistar: they should ship from EU too |
| 16:51.44 | aloril | wifi? |
| 16:51.44 | aloril | When version 1 was designed there was no sufficiently low-power WiFi chip available which has an open driver. You can attach (battery) powered USB hub to Neo1973 and then use supported WiFi USB stick. For more information see http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/InternetAccess |
| 16:51.44 | edistar | brilliant, thanks :) |
| 16:51.48 | edistar | looking forward |
| 16:52.00 | edistar | any useable programs like dialer ready yet? |
| 16:52.24 | *** join/#openmoko mitsuhiko (n=blackbir@ubuntu/member/mitsuhiko) |
| 16:52.29 | SpeedEvil | It will work as a basic phone come late march. |
| 16:52.39 | SpeedEvil | More depends on what people do by then. |
| 16:52.48 | edistar | yes |
| 16:53.03 | edistar | so I can use it to telephone.. and sms too? |
| 16:53.13 | mjr | edistar, that's been promised, yes |
| 16:53.42 | edistar | btw, will there finally be a gcc compiler for openmoko? It is really annoying to have to use scratchbox to program for the maemo |
| 16:53.43 | loufoque | can I use it as a toaster? |
| 16:53.58 | rodgers | i apprecite the meaty technical epxlanations, aloril |
| 16:54.20 | Magon | edistar: is uses OE, so you have to get OE compiler |
| 16:54.21 | rodgers | however, by adding on the cam and 802.11, we end up with a brick, not a portable hand-held |
| 16:54.29 | edistar | open embedded? |
| 16:54.31 | Magon | yes |
| 16:54.32 | rodgers | we already have that in the iPAQ prorotype we put together 4 years back |
| 16:54.41 | Magon | the compiler will compile itself when needed :-) |
| 16:54.48 | edistar | brilliant :) |
| 16:54.56 | rodgers | we will put up a streaming video of that doing videoconferencine, some time soon |
| 16:55.05 | edistar | cause somehow with the maemo 770 its not possible!? |
| 16:55.25 | Magon | does maemo use open embedded? |
| 16:55.37 | rodgers | we are primarily interested in medical applications of such a device |
| 16:55.49 | rodgers | having a cleanable unit without a keyboard is good for that |
| 16:55.53 | mjr | hmm, the moko rekindles my interest in a steganographic filesystem |
| 16:55.58 | rodgers | having a hi-res display is also good |
| 16:56.08 | loufoque | the design of the neo1973 seems to waste quite some space |
| 16:56.15 | mjr | since on a memory device the extra seeking isn't an issue... |
| 16:56.26 | rodgers | but having a video cam -=prefaablyin a rotatable turret at the top, slong with 802.11, also seem requirment for what we are trying to so... |
| 16:56.41 | dom | apple probaply patented the rectengular phone design |
| 16:56.46 | rburton | Magon: maemo is scratchbox |
| 16:56.47 | rodgers | lol |
| 16:56.58 | rodgers | and use of stainless steel case, no doubt ;) |
| 16:57.29 | dom | yes .. and turning electronic "things" 90 degrees too |
| 16:57.54 | edistar | maemo!=OE |
| 16:58.06 | rodgers | LOL no doubt, dom |
| 16:58.13 | edistar | interesting, but I don't know why I can't have a gcc on it :( |
| 16:58.19 | aloril | from mailing list, nothing new here either: http://www.makezine.com/blog/archive/2007/02/openmoko_open_s.html |
| 16:58.23 | mjr | dom, indeed, no doubt we'll be sued if we ever turn the moko in landscape orientation for a movie |
| 16:58.23 | rodgers | all the beter reason for a Taiwanese firm to do just that lol |
| 16:58.25 | Magon | can someone help me with build problem..it seems svn doesnt want to give me something |
| 16:58.37 | aloril | mickeyl: ChanServ changed topic back |
| 16:59.17 | *** join/#openmoko dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 16:59.20 | Magon | mjr: we dont have to turn it to landscape..just turn the movie |
| 16:59.46 | edistar | :P |
| 16:59.58 | dom | can we get the orientation from the gps chip? |
| 17:00.23 | Magon | dom: what orientation? |
| 17:00.26 | loufoque | dom: no |
| 17:00.31 | aloril | edistar: I think you could regard OpenMoko as 'normal' Linux distribution, just one geared for mobile phone |
| 17:00.59 | dom | orientation: which side is looking up to the sattelite .... |
| 17:01.22 | Magon | dom: probably not |
| 17:01.29 | edistar | an xterm is available, right? so actually you could do quite a lot with it :) |
| 17:01.43 | rodgers | GSM woudl not support aht, no |
| 17:01.46 | edistar | maemo is quite a normal linux too, a kind of debian.. |
| 17:01.50 | rodgers | ooops i mean GPS of course |
| 17:02.36 | rodgers | wel off to lunch, thanks for letting me kibitz, look forward to chatign with you many more times in the coming weeks! :) |
| 17:02.43 | mjr | edistar, well, it _has_ an X server :] Dunno if a terminal is in default install, but would make sense in the developer phase at least, if it fits |
| 17:02.56 | edistar | yes |
| 17:03.08 | edistar | why shouldn't it fit? ;) |
| 17:03.10 | *** part/#openmoko the_sys0p (n=the_sys0@cpe-72-129-85-39.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 17:03.22 | edistar | should be easy to port.. doesn't need much, does it? |
| 17:03.59 | edistar | /dev/input is standard.. |
| 17:04.17 | SpeedEvil | Is this thing ever imagined that the core software will fit in the base 64M flash? |
| 17:04.31 | ynezz | why not? |
| 17:04.59 | aloril | edistar: s/port/compile/ ;-) |
| 17:05.07 | edistar | ;) |
| 17:05.09 | mjr | aloril, I was waiting for that, thanks ;) |
| 17:05.11 | Magon | SpeedEvil: consider it will all use the same library |
| 17:05.16 | ynezz | SpeedEvil: most of PDAs have 64M or less main flash space |
| 17:05.23 | edistar | sry |
| 17:05.27 | ynezz | SpeedEvil: and you can insert additional SD card... |
| 17:05.45 | ynezz | there's no need to have everything on main flash |
| 17:05.46 | mjr | anyway, the important thing is that installing an xterm shouldn't be a problem |
| 17:05.52 | ynezz | :) |
| 17:05.57 | SpeedEvil | You can insert an additional SD card. |
| 17:06.04 | ynezz | and ncurses interface |
| 17:06.17 | SpeedEvil | But if the core software does not fit on the 64M flash, then you can't change that SD card. |
| 17:06.24 | edistar | true |
| 17:06.28 | ynezz | [x] Redial [Call] [Abort] |
| 17:06.34 | edistar | but 64mb is a lot.. |
| 17:06.45 | ynezz | it is |
| 17:07.03 | SpeedEvil | It is a lot, of nice, tightly written software, with only the needed libraries. |
| 17:07.21 | newmedian | '64mb ought to be enough for anybody' ..oops. sorry, wrong o/s |
| 17:07.26 | ynezz | :) |
| 17:08.05 | buz | how much does the current image really need |
| 17:08.22 | mjr | do I recall correctly that the internal flash was even compressed? |
| 17:08.31 | pH5 | SpeedEvil: a whole lot fits in 64mb. arm code is more compact than at least x86 code and the jffs2 file system uses gzip compression. |
| 17:08.41 | mjr | pH5, thanks for the answer :9 |
| 17:08.45 | morricone | bitbake openmoko-devel-image, "NOTE: package glibc-intermediate-2.5-r4: task do_configure: started" "ERROR: function do_configure failed" *** LD_LIBRARY_PATH shouldn't contain the current directory when building glibc. Please change the nvironment variable and run configure again. |
| 17:08.54 | morricone | what can I do? |
| 17:09.31 | ynezz | look at do_configure function for clue |
| 17:09.43 | SpeedEvil | I was just wondering if there was a solid commitment saying 'This core software shall all fit in onboard flash'. |
| 17:10.08 | ynezz | why do you think it wont? |
| 17:10.35 | edistar | it has to fit on;) |
| 17:11.02 | ynezz | look at handhelds.org for images |
| 17:11.24 | ynezz | i've used some GPE image which was about 28MB |
| 17:11.25 | aloril | at some point for xterm probably s/compile/install/ ;-) |
| 17:11.25 | rburton | SpeedEvil: if the software doens't fit... how will it work? |
| 17:11.37 | SpeedEvil | rburton: bundled SD card. |
| 17:11.42 | rburton | which you can't remove. useful! |
| 17:11.48 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 17:11.53 | Stephmw | Yay... fixed my error... now to fix the memory leak I introduced alongside... |
| 17:11.57 | SpeedEvil | Indeed - that was my question. |
| 17:12.04 | rburton | SpeedEvil: trust me, 64M is plenty |
| 17:12.22 | edistar | yes |
| 17:12.26 | rburton | the nokia 770 had 64M flash |
| 17:12.38 | ynezz | SpeedEvil: i think, that you surely would have 32MB free for some onflash pr0n :) |
| 17:12.51 | edistar | yes :( that is not very much... not with all the programs(not only core) being installed |
| 17:12.58 | CM | SpeedEvil: Ask rwhitby. He only has 8mb for his nslu2 stuff :) |
| 17:12.59 | Clint | yeah, the ram was more of a problem on the 770 than the flash |
| 17:13.00 | ynezz | anyway you can make your own image just with stuff you use |
| 17:13.21 | rburton | SpeedEvil: my N800 has 80M on / and i've got a fair amount of extra stuff installed |
| 17:13.27 | rburton | also jffs2 is compressed |
| 17:13.33 | edistar | an n800 is different again ;) |
| 17:13.35 | SpeedEvil | K. |
| 17:13.41 | ynezz | what's n800 boot time? |
| 17:13.50 | edistar | my n770 has nearly full up.. |
| 17:14.15 | edistar | I mean _is |
| 17:14.17 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering as I'm writing [[expansion back]] and it would make the SD slot accessable. |
| 17:14.22 | ynezz | i wonder how fast neo boots |
| 17:14.36 | rburton | ynezz: a 50 seconds? can't recall the last time i booted it |
| 17:14.44 | ynezz | that's a lot :) |
| 17:14.54 | rburton | it only boots when i change flash |
| 17:15.02 | rburton | as a charge lasts about a week |
| 17:15.08 | ynezz | sure, but anyway it's lot :) |
| 17:15.13 | rburton | yeah |
| 17:15.16 | rburton | its being worked on |
| 17:15.19 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 17:15.32 | rburton | basically, flash is slow, and there is a lot to read |
| 17:15.34 | edistar | rburton: you need to switch it off to change flash? |
| 17:15.42 | rburton | when i reflash it |
| 17:15.46 | edistar | ah ;) |
| 17:15.51 | *** join/#openmoko philips (n=brandon@osuosl/staff/philips) |
| 17:16.04 | edistar | can you flash the n770 with the current image? |
| 17:16.11 | edistar | or is it not supported anymore? |
| 17:16.15 | rburton | you can flash the 770 with the new 770 imae |
| 17:16.23 | CM | This post mentioned startup at least: http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/46-N800-VFP-or-not-to-VFP.html |
| 17:16.25 | rburton | don't put IT2007 on it, or you'll have a brick |
| 17:16.27 | edistar | hm, is it worth it? |
| 17:16.30 | edistar | yes |
| 17:16.33 | edistar | I thought so |
| 17:16.35 | rburton | its got a few fixes in |
| 17:16.49 | ynezz | rburton: what do you mean it's worked on? do you have some link? |
| 17:16.53 | loufoque | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Messages <-- this doesn't support MMS? |
| 17:17.00 | rburton | ynezz: no |
| 17:17.46 | ynezz | you mean on linux generaly? as it was published on ce-linux dev forum? |
| 17:18.03 | borg_ | counter |
| 17:18.03 | aloril | P0: a week, 6 days 18:41:56 (7.779 - 13.779 days); P1: 29.779 - 44.779; P2: 197.779 - 227.779 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (338) |
| 17:18.17 | rburton | ynezz: there are many ways of speeding up boots |
| 17:18.41 | ynezz | true |
| 17:18.55 | edistar | well, cu soon! I will have to work for school now ;) |
| 17:19.25 | SpeedEvil | Where is the vibrator on the phone. I don't see it in the dissasembly pics, or the board layout. |
| 17:19.29 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 17:20.10 | *** part/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 17:20.11 | ynezz | it's done via electric shock between pins D1 and P0 |
| 17:20.55 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 17:21.07 | aloril | loufoque: I think that is case initially, MMS is later |
| 17:21.13 | morricone | SpeedEvil, http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973#Empty_case_frame |
| 17:21.44 | Magon | can someone tell my why is bitbake trying to fetch revision 11 instead of head fort kernel patches? |
| 17:22.19 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:22.28 | SpeedEvil | morricone: I don't see it - that's the battery connector in the middle, and the two speakers isn't it? |
| 17:22.30 | aloril | about 300GB for this year for releases 10GB each, so release every 2 or 3 weeks? I guess later you buy, more recent software it will have (which of course is irrelevant because you can anytime update to latest) |
| 17:22.50 | morricone | SpeedEvil, read the title: You can actually see the two stereo speakers beneath the translucent cover, and next to it the small vibrator motor. |
| 17:22.50 | SpeedEvil | Oh - right. |
| 17:22.58 | SpeedEvil | Next to the battery connecto |
| 17:23.30 | SpeedEvil | I'm sure those titles werne't there last I looked. |
| 17:23.31 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
| 17:24.17 | SpeedEvil | Checking history, it seems I have reading comprehension problems :) |
| 17:28.52 | rburton | koen: i believe one intltool-update.in is the same as another, as long as its new enough |
| 17:29.03 | rburton | koen: dates builds fine in poky, which is odd |
| 17:29.32 | aloril | there might be soon more articles: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-February/000410.html |
| 17:29.36 | loufoque | Where can I get information about the new case? |
| 17:30.07 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@adsl-75-17-28-48.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:30.44 | Magon | how to specify svn co revision in bb file? |
| 17:31.05 | ynezz | svn help co |
| 17:31.40 | Magon | in svn i know..but in bb file |
| 17:31.51 | Magon | rev=what_i_need |
| 17:31.52 | Magon | or how? |
| 17:32.08 | mickeyl | hi guys |
| 17:32.13 | Magon | in SRC |
| 17:32.21 | aloril | loufoque: what are you referring to? black/silver? http://crunchgear.com/2007/02/15/openmokos-open-source-mobile-os/ |
| 17:32.46 | Magon | ok..rev=head worked |
| 17:32.47 | loufoque | aloril: I've heard of a bigger case |
| 17:32.52 | mickeyl | ~botmail for accumulator alsa contains a bug wrt C99 headers. you need to patch ALSA locally like i did in OE. |
| 17:33.03 | aloril | hi mickeyl (repeat from earlier: ChanServ changed topic back ) |
| 17:33.29 | Magon | can someone tell my why bitbake kept checking out rev 11 instead of head while building linux-gta01 kernel? |
| 17:33.30 | aloril | loufoque: ah, I have heard only end user hackery speculation |
| 17:34.17 | *** join/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 17:34.47 | LetoTo | anyone seen this: |
| 17:34.50 | LetoTo | | /usr/local/movies/openmoko/tmp/work/x86_64-linux/db3-native-3.2.9-r2/db-3.2.9/dist/../include/mutex.h:647: error: expected specifier-qualifier-list before 'tsl_t' |
| 17:34.50 | LetoTo | | make: *** [db185.lo] Error 1 |
| 17:34.50 | LetoTo | | FATAL: oe_runmake failed |
| 17:35.31 | nh_work | anyone tried to get openmoko running on the E2 yet? |
| 17:36.14 | loufoque | what's the E2? |
| 17:36.32 | nh_work | loufoque: one of the motorola linux phones. |
| 17:36.38 | ynezz | loufoque: motorola rokr e2 |
| 17:47.01 | *** join/#openmoko apt (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 17:47.01 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html | unofficial Wiki @ http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 17:47.10 | Stephmw | S30 and S40 don't |
| 17:47.32 | Stephmw | (Series30 and Series40... I shouldn't shorten that too much) |
| 17:47.38 | aloril | SpeedEvil: interesting, yeah back being one big piece does offer various possibilities: I think its likely there will be alternate backs (by somebody) |
| 17:48.09 | *** topic/#openmoko by mickeyl -> OpenMoko Community Lounge <> Free Your Phone <> { www|wiki|bugzilla|planet|projects|lists } .openmoko.org <> |
| 17:48.35 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ip-174.49.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net) |
| 17:49.26 | mickeyl | aloril: thinks. fixed. |
| 17:49.30 | mickeyl | s/thinks/thanks/ |
| 17:52.05 | SpeedEvil | Even a 'simple' back, with no complex electronics is interesting. |
| 17:52.21 | SpeedEvil | As it gives SD slot, and stylus holder, and alternate SIMs. |
| 17:52.28 | loufoque | what do you guys think of the greenphone? |
| 17:52.30 | Stephmw | and a thinner phone perhaps |
| 17:52.59 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: there is no simple way to make the phone thinner. |
| 17:53.22 | SpeedEvil | You may be able to shave off a millimeter or two, by going through all the plastics. |
| 17:53.35 | SpeedEvil | And to a thinner battery. |
| 17:53.48 | SpeedEvil | This will make the phone less robust though. |
| 17:55.01 | koen | rburton: dates buils fine in OE as well, it's openmoko-dates that doesn't work |
| 17:55.09 | koen | rburton: and I can't figure out why :( |
| 17:55.19 | rburton | koen: but they should be identical in build system :/ |
| 17:55.24 | rburton | i'll run a meld |
| 17:55.41 | rburton | hopefully a small change was missed |
| 17:56.04 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 17:56.54 | rburton | koen: grrr configure etc are the same excluding the moko specific options |
| 17:57.12 | rburton | koen: building from dates head? |
| 18:06.20 | koen | rburton: dates 0.3.1 and openmoko-dates head |
| 18:06.52 | rburton | i've no idea what is going on :( |
| 18:08.50 | ajturner | koen - what are your thoughts on dates vs. gpe-cal b/w openmoko & maemo? |
| 18:09.46 | koen | ajturner: I'm hoping that gpe-calendar get an eds-backend |
| 18:09.55 | hrw | dates are very very simple |
| 18:09.57 | koen | I'm not entierly happy with the maemo dates gue |
| 18:10.03 | koen | gui* |
| 18:10.06 | xkr47 | s/people/contacts/ |
| 18:10.12 | ajturner | right - seems like GPE-cal is the future supported option? |
| 18:10.30 | koen | no idea on that |
| 18:10.47 | koen | I was one of the people that pushed mickeyl to recommend eds-dbus to fic :) |
| 18:10.47 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:12.44 | xkr47 | heated by laptop ?-) |
| 18:15.16 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 18:15.30 | LetoTo | man, I'll have to hack db3-native-3.2.9-r2 |
| 18:19.43 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 18:22.52 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 18:24.49 | *** join/#openmoko rburton (n=ross@althur.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 18:25.59 | *** join/#openmoko Dragonfire9935 (n=Administ@pool-71-251-144-37.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:27.06 | Dragonfire9935 | Question. There are several other Linux phone OS's out there, but will openMoko be available like they are? Could I flash it on my own smart phone so I wouldn't have to deal with WM5 anymore? |
| 18:27.30 | hrw | Dragonfire9935: if you will get linux on it and adapt openmoko then yes |
| 18:27.31 | hrw | cu |
| 18:27.53 | xkr47 | cu |
| 18:28.02 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=freyther@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 18:28.06 | Dragonfire9935 | Does anyone know how to get Linux on a uTStarcom xv6700? I tried previously with no luck. |
| 18:28.25 | Dragonfire9935 | I don't even know if it can for that matter, just curious. |
| 18:30.06 | *** join/#openmoko ljp (n=lpotter@203.94.178.46) |
| 18:30.35 | xkr47 | oh no, the web servers are not responding |
| 18:32.00 | fluffs | hmm, harald seems to have managed to reimplement my smdk download tool at least a year after I wrote it |
| 18:33.05 | denis^da | ahhh the load on the webserver sucks :) . It is no fun editing the wiki at the moment :/ |
| 18:33.23 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 18:33.36 | xkr47 | denis^da, it doesn't respond at all to me |
| 18:34.23 | denis^da | xkr47, for me it isn't responding as well |
| 18:34.23 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:34.24 | xkr47 | well let's not bomb it further :) |
| 18:34.24 | LuitvD | what, the wiki? |
| 18:34.24 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 18:34.25 | denis^da | LuitvD, yeah the wiki |
| 18:34.44 | LuitvD | denis^da: okay, then I won't try to take a look :P |
| 18:34.44 | Elrond | Okay, so much for helping the wiki ;) |
| 18:35.04 | xkr47 | I was going to fix a spelling mistake.. ;) |
| 18:35.11 | LuitvD | lol |
| 18:35.12 | Elrond | <-- waiting for ML subscription confirmation ;) |
| 18:35.45 | Elrond | xkr47 - I wanted to declutter the main page ;) |
| 18:35.46 | LuitvD | -does the neo lack 3G support because of the patents and royalties on 3G technologies? |
| 18:35.57 | denis^da | I wanted to transport the next things from the linuxtogo wiki but so I will have spare time :D |
| 18:36.41 | Elrond | LuitvD - I doubt it. I have no idea, why they have choosen this specific gsm module. Maybe, because it was affordable, no idea. |
| 18:36.46 | LuitvD | (umts and WCDMA) |
| 18:36.49 | Kero | "overwhelming" interest? :) |
| 18:37.03 | Kero | (the slow webserver, I mena) |
| 18:37.12 | Elrond | Kero - yep. |
| 18:37.19 | Kero | cool |
| 18:37.19 | LuitvD | Elrond: I'm starting to believe it's because of the 28,5% royalties you'll have to pay for it... |
| 18:39.11 | Elrond | LuitvD - 29% of what? The final in-shop price, or what? |
| 18:39.17 | buz | http://www.amazon.com/gp/browse.html?node=201590011 theres a place for the mediawiki |
| 18:39.19 | LuitvD | (I mean... if you wouldn't have to pay the royalties on UMTS, most devices would be 25% cheaper) |
| 18:39.31 | xkr47 | the sites work again! \o/ |
| 18:39.55 | denis^da | yeah :) |
| 18:39.58 | Elrond | LuitvD - Ahh. |
| 18:40.07 | LuitvD | Elrond: that's much huh? :P |
| 18:40.08 | denis^da | it works untill we start working :D |
| 18:40.28 | Elrond | LuitvD - Yep. :-| |
| 18:40.35 | Kero | LuitvD: is that because telco's paid so much for a UMTS license, or because of patents? |
| 18:41.01 | LuitvD | (I estimate an average UMTS phone at 300 dollars... that makes about 70 dollars on royalties for each device...) |
| 18:41.21 | LuitvD | Kero: because of the patentholders that want royalties :) |
| 18:42.13 | LuitvD | now I understand why china skipped 3G and chose to get to 4G right away |
| 18:42.15 | Kero | LuitvD: I'll bet my employer is one of those patentholders. ironical how patents slow down acceptance of a next-gen technology... |
| 18:42.36 | *** join/#openmoko zecke_ (n=freyther@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 18:42.42 | *** part/#openmoko Dragonfire9935 (n=Administ@pool-71-251-144-37.hrbgpa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 18:42.51 | Kero | does china (really) honor patents these days? |
| 18:42.51 | LuitvD | Kero: who do you work for then? |
| 18:43.11 | LuitvD | Kero: Qualcomm is the worst :P |
| 18:43.18 | Kero | LuitvD: Philips (possibly NXP has the patents now, tho) |
| 18:43.22 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, wow some nasty wallhacking there ;-) |
| 18:43.31 | SpeedEvil | xkr47 :) |
| 18:43.41 | SpeedEvil | 9" angle grinders are surprisingly fun. |
| 18:43.48 | SpeedEvil | You can whittle on walls. |
| 18:43.57 | SpeedEvil | VEry, very dusty thouhg. |
| 18:43.58 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: what? |
| 18:44.05 | fluffs | anyone managed to apply http://svn.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/kernel/patches/series to a kernel yet? |
| 18:44.22 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 18:44.24 | *** join/#openmoko freyther (n=freyther@dsl-62-220-14-162.berlikomm.net) |
| 18:44.36 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD? |
| 18:44.51 | fluffs | i've unpacked 2.6.17, applied 2.6.17.14, and then tried quilt push -a |
| 18:44.57 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: wallhack? what? where? :P |
| 18:45.01 | fluffs | and it just moans about patches needing refreshing |
| 18:45.13 | Elrond | fluffs - Only some of them should be applied. |
| 18:45.14 | xkr47 | LuitvD, check User:Speedevil on the wiki ;) |
| 18:45.19 | LuitvD | aah |
| 18:45.20 | SpeedEvil | Oh. |
| 18:45.23 | LuitvD | xkr47: kay :P |
| 18:45.33 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/walls.html is the url that's mentioned there. |
| 18:45.44 | fluffs | Elrond: ah, so the wiki is innacurae |
| 18:45.56 | Elrond | LuitvD - Regarding the royalties, I'm fine, that the Neo has no 3G. |
| 18:46.25 | Elrond | fluffs - The Hardware page has a patch URL for each hardware component. |
| 18:46.28 | LuitvD | Elrond: I want HSDPA, rather then UMTS |
| 18:46.46 | LuitvD | (and that's 3.5G I guess) |
| 18:47.30 | Elrond | Hey, I wont even use gprs. It's way too expensive. |
| 18:47.44 | LetoTo | price will go down |
| 18:47.51 | LuitvD | Elrond: HSDPA shouldn't be too expensive.. |
| 18:47.56 | LuitvD | in usage |
| 18:48.12 | LuitvD | Kero: yeah, never had a GPS device :) |
| 18:48.12 | Elrond | Kero - Right. |
| 18:48.33 | LuitvD | does anyone know a good GPS-Paining programme on linux? :P |
| 18:48.42 | Elrond | I have postponed buying a garmin for checking out neo. |
| 18:48.57 | ljp | apparently not everything is released? http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/src/target/OM-2007/openmoko-libs/libmokocore/ |
| 18:49.20 | denis^da | GPRS is getting cheaper and cheaper so it is useful for messaging. I'm looking forward getting away from writing sms because they are really expensive :) |
| 18:49.47 | LuitvD | denis^da: SMS only costs me 7 cents... |
| 18:50.11 | LuitvD | denis^da: call that expensive? |
| 18:50.13 | denis^da | LuitvD, but one day being online with jabber costs me 10 cents ;) |
| 18:50.22 | tigert | did you guys actually look more into geoclue? |
| 18:50.35 | LuitvD | denis^da: how? |
| 18:50.42 | LuitvD | denis^da: you mean at home? |
| 18:50.44 | mickeyl | ljp: everything released. |
| 18:50.45 | tigert | it was mentioned in the devel list once i remember |
| 18:50.51 | mickeyl | ljp: if there is an empty dir, then there is no code yet :D |
| 18:51.07 | LuitvD | Kero: that is VoIP over UMTS i guess... |
| 18:51.10 | denis^da | LuitvD, everywhere in my country because you just pay the amount of volume |
| 18:51.13 | Kero | mickeyl: and I was so hoping to toy with openmoko-calendar :( |
| 18:51.14 | ljp | interesting that it seems you use qmake :) |
| 18:51.19 | Kero | LuitvD: possibly |
| 18:51.21 | mickeyl | Kero ? |
| 18:51.23 | LuitvD | denis^da: is that on GPRS? |
| 18:51.31 | mickeyl | Kero: what makes you think you can't play w/ openmoko-dates ? |
| 18:51.32 | denis^da | LuitvD, yeah it is |
| 18:51.32 | Kero | mickeyl: that dir was empty on my checkout? |
| 18:51.42 | *** part/#openmoko LetoTo (n=paul@bofh.xelerance.com) |
| 18:51.47 | LuitvD | yeah, was looking for openmoko.calendar too... |
| 18:51.49 | mickeyl | ljp: only for my personal use. we use autoconf throughout the project |
| 18:51.51 | mickeyl | well |
| 18:51.55 | Kero | mickeyl: of course I can play with other things; I will :) |
| 18:51.55 | mickeyl | have a look into the oe recipe |
| 18:51.58 | rd_ | Kero, the source is out? |
| 18:51.59 | mjr | LuitvD, 140 bytes transferred for 7 cents? Damn right it's expensive. |
| 18:52.01 | mickeyl | openmoko-dates is out |
| 18:52.03 | mickeyl | just not in our svn |
| 18:52.06 | mickeyl | :D |
| 18:52.11 | Kero | mickeyl: sneaky :) |
| 18:52.14 | LuitvD | mjr: yeah.. okay... |
| 18:52.17 | denis^da | mjr, thats what I mean :) |
| 18:52.54 | ljp | you prefer qmake to autocrap, hey? |
| 18:52.54 | Kero | rd_: haven't noticed the topic change? again? |
| 18:53.08 | denis^da | LuitvD, the flatrates on GPRS are getting cheaper and cheaper so messaging through whatever messenger will be the future |
| 18:53.11 | ljp | gsmd looks interesting |
| 18:53.12 | rd_ | err, i was travelling for more since monday -.- |
| 18:53.12 | LuitvD | mjr: it's 160 bytes, at least :P |
| 18:53.36 | mickeyl | ljp: what i like is having the option to build everything in place and in one run. |
| 18:53.42 | mickeyl | and this is where qmake just rocks |
| 18:53.44 | denis^da | LuitvD, sms is just interesting for the cell phone providers :) |
| 18:53.54 | buz | is the battery rectangular |
| 18:54.06 | buz | or does it warp around the corner where the sim sits ? |
| 18:54.18 | LuitvD | denis^da: it wasn't even supposed to be used for it's current purpose... :P |
| 18:54.35 | LuitvD | buz: what do you reckon? :P |
| 18:54.39 | Kero | rd_: time flies :) I saw the stuff yesterday |
| 18:55.02 | buz | looking at http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Main_Page |
| 18:55.11 | rd_ | Kero, k, time to check it out |
| 18:55.18 | buz | if the battery leaves the right space empty, theres plenty space for cabling to go up |
| 18:55.25 | rd_ | btw, happy chinese new year to asia ppl :D |
| 18:55.37 | LuitvD | rd_: is that today? |
| 18:55.48 | LuitvD | rd_: in what timezone? :P |
| 18:55.57 | ljp | mickeyl: of course :) |
| 18:55.59 | rd_ | i was heading back home for the holidays |
| 18:56.04 | rd_ | LuitvD, not yet |
| 18:56.12 | rd_ | tomorrow |
| 18:56.18 | LuitvD | rd_: ah |
| 18:56.42 | LuitvD | well, in shanghai it's friday already... |
| 18:56.55 | ljp | in brisbane too |
| 18:56.56 | LuitvD | 3 o'clock there... |
| 18:57.11 | denis^da | where do you come from? In Germany here it is 8 pm :) |
| 18:57.20 | LuitvD | ljp: that's even further away from greenwitch |
| 18:57.36 | denis^da | you = all the guys here in the chan :) |
| 18:57.50 | LuitvD | denis^da: same timezone, guess which country |
| 18:57.52 | LuitvD | :P |
| 18:57.56 | ljp | its 5 here |
| 18:58.07 | denis^da | netherlands ;) |
| 18:58.13 | denis^da | @ LuitvD |
| 18:58.19 | LuitvD | lol |
| 18:58.27 | LuitvD | how did you know? |
| 18:58.39 | ljp | just about ready to go into work and start crackin on the greenphone |
| 18:58.43 | denis^da | I am a magician ;) |
| 18:58.45 | LuitvD | ljp: why does my pda tell me it's 5:00 in brisbane, and 6:00 in sidney? |
| 18:58.54 | denis^da | LuitvD, no just whoised you |
| 18:58.57 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__147 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-8d66d60be43335cf) |
| 18:59.00 | LuitvD | denis^da: lol |
| 18:59.08 | ljp | because sydeny is stuckup and thinks it needs daylight savings time |
| 18:59.13 | rd_ | its 2AM here, in my hometown |
| 18:59.18 | Psi_ | heh |
| 18:59.41 | denis^da | soo I will be back later on at night :) |
| 18:59.47 | LuitvD | denis^da: But I'm not from hoofddorp as /whois tells you |
| 18:59.51 | LuitvD | :P |
| 19:00.12 | LuitvD | ljp: so sidney has DST, and brisbane doesn't? :S |
| 19:00.15 | denis^da | LuitvD, :P :) buuuut from the Netherlands :D |
| 19:00.21 | LuitvD | denis^da: yes :P |
| 19:00.29 | LuitvD | denis^da: you can tell from my IP... |
| 19:00.32 | *** join/#openmoko diogenes (n=diogenes@hoas-fe35dd00-37.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:00.33 | LaF0rge | Linux version 2.6.20-moko7 (laforge@hanuman.de.gnumonks.org) (gcc version 4.1.1) #5 Thu Feb 15 19:29:04 CET 2007 |
| 19:00.36 | LuitvD | (that's how whois knows) |
| 19:00.37 | denis^da | LuitvD, you see it is magic |
| 19:00.38 | Psi_ | so.. is it possible to setup a linux box to emulate the neo processor, so ya can write programs without actually having one? |
| 19:00.52 | denis^da | LuitvD, the ip doesn't sound as good as magic ;) |
| 19:01.01 | LuitvD | denis^da: what part of germany are you from? near the border with the netherlands? |
| 19:01.06 | denis^da | so I'm afk no :) |
| 19:01.11 | denis^da | LuitvD, not really |
| 19:01.21 | LuitvD | which part? |
| 19:01.30 | denis^da | LuitvD, I'm leaving in the Bavarian part of germany near munich |
| 19:01.36 | denis^da | living :P |
| 19:01.48 | LaF0rge | well, you can leave that part, too ;) |
| 19:01.48 | denis^da | cut out the "leaving " :> |
| 19:02.02 | denis^da | LaF0rge, yeah I will leave now :D |
| 19:02.10 | LuitvD | denis^da: try s/leaving/living/ :P |
| 19:02.23 | LuitvD | next time you have a tpyo |
| 19:02.36 | LuitvD | s/tpyo/typo/ |
| 19:02.36 | ljp | LuitvD: yes, thankfully. queensland it too close to the tropics for daylight savings time to really have an effect, especially the northern half. |
| 19:02.36 | LuitvD | see? |
| 19:02.42 | LaF0rge | all people on this channel have embedded regex parsers in their brains ;) |
| 19:03.01 | *** join/#openmoko chairuou_home (i=chairuou@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 19:03.14 | rd_ | LaF0rge, :p |
| 19:03.30 | zecke | ljp: so when will you hit europe? |
| 19:03.34 | LuitvD | denis^aw: ah, is '^da' for 'present'/'here' ? :P |
| 19:04.00 | denis^aw | yeah |
| 19:04.01 | LuitvD | denis^aw: now I see :P didn't quite link german to your nickname :P |
| 19:04.07 | LuitvD | and 'da' :P |
| 19:04.12 | LuitvD | now it makes sense |
| 19:04.12 | chairuou_home | there |
| 19:04.20 | denis^aw | LuitvD, noooow you got it :) |
| 19:04.31 | ljp | i will arrive next friday |
| 19:04.38 | denis^aw | LuitvD, now I will be away for some poker round :> |
| 19:04.50 | denis^aw | LuitvD, wish me luck :D |
| 19:04.54 | LuitvD | denis^aw: good luck :P |
| 19:04.57 | stefan_schmidt | LaF0rge: All moko kernel patches are up-to-date with 2.6.20 yet? |
| 19:05.07 | ljp | zecke: only staying till monday as my son is a handful, and my wife is preggers again |
| 19:05.08 | LuitvD | denis^aw: don't loose too much money... |
| 19:05.19 | denis^aw | LuitvD, max 2,50 € ;) |
| 19:05.30 | LuitvD | denis^aw: you should still be able to buy a FIC Neo :P |
| 19:05.40 | denis^aw | LuitvD, definetly :D |
| 19:05.42 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54007F1B.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 19:05.57 | LuitvD | :( |
| 19:06.31 | ljp | trolltech is still hiring if you are a c++ developer |
| 19:06.46 | zecke | and have an australian work permit |
| 19:06.52 | LuitvD | ljp: I'm only 17 years old... what do you expect of me :P |
| 19:07.06 | LuitvD | ljp: and I don't want a greenphone... I want a Neo :P |
| 19:07.13 | cjb | LuitvD: why not go to college? |
| 19:07.16 | ljp | zecke: not required. look at me |
| 19:07.23 | LuitvD | cjb: what do you mean? |
| 19:07.54 | ozamosi | Depending on where he lives, he might be to young. Or he might go to college. |
| 19:08.03 | ozamosi | (netherlands, right?) |
| 19:08.08 | LuitvD | cjb: i'm doing my last year of high-school... (which is bloody boring) and after that I will do college... |
| 19:08.19 | LuitvD | ozamosi: yeah, got half a year to go for that |
| 19:08.30 | buz | LuitvD: enjoy HS |
| 19:08.31 | ozamosi | I've been going to college for half a year :) |
| 19:08.41 | buz | you will never do less than during that time ;) |
| 19:09.06 | LuitvD | buz: I found out about that now :P |
| 19:09.09 | ozamosi | Especially the last half year :) |
| 19:10.14 | LuitvD | s/isn't/wouldn't be/ |
| 19:10.36 | ozamosi | One two hour lecture at a college is like a 6 months class at high school. And highest grade at high school is like just passing in college. At least here, at least for me :) |
| 19:10.38 | Elrond | "Externally-accessible GPS antenna jack" |
| 19:10.40 | LuitvD | especially now... got nearly 2 weeks off |
| 19:10.44 | Elrond | Does that mean, what I think it means? |
| 19:11.23 | SpeedEvil | There is not current GPS jack AIUI. |
| 19:11.25 | LuitvD | Elrond: you think it means that you'd have to connect that to even use it? |
| 19:11.27 | SpeedEvil | s/not/no/ |
| 19:11.46 | SpeedEvil | Just a GSM one. |
| 19:12.02 | Magon | neo have GSM jack? |
| 19:12.50 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: the only connectors I've seen so-far are an USB plug and a headset jack... |
| 19:13.25 | LuitvD | http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/2/25/Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_white.jpg |
| 19:13.48 | LuitvD | isn't the brown thing on the right the GPS device? |
| 19:14.01 | LuitvD | (and bluetooth??) |
| 19:14.14 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 19:14.14 | zecke | mickeyl: did you send case/device samples to your GPS module provider? |
| 19:14.23 | SpeedEvil | Bluetooth is next to the battery, on the back. |
| 19:14.43 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: behind the battery? |
| 19:14.46 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Gta01b_v3_case_top_open_pcb_lifted.jpg |
| 19:14.48 | SpeedEvil | at the top |
| 19:14.49 | LuitvD | strange location |
| 19:15.03 | mickeyl | zecke: the gps module provider regularly visits taiwan |
| 19:15.04 | rburton | koen: hmm. re openmoko-dates. try adding inherit gnome |
| 19:15.05 | SpeedEvil | that's the bluetooth antenna. - the green board with the square thing. |
| 19:15.23 | zecke | mickeyl: I think they show a neo at their 3gsm booth |
| 19:15.29 | SpeedEvil | The GPS is the module to the left, connected by a gray wire. |
| 19:15.47 | SpeedEvil | And next to the wire is the GSM antenna - I think. |
| 19:15.51 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: that one I did know... but the bluetooth... still don't see it :P |
| 19:16.01 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: the GSM antenna is on the other side |
| 19:16.09 | LuitvD | the big black thing with some copper on it |
| 19:16.27 | LuitvD | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973#GSM_Antenna |
| 19:17.08 | SpeedEvil | The bluetooth is the one I linked to. |
| 19:17.12 | SpeedEvil | the image |
| 19:17.17 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: ah, now I see the bluetooth :P |
| 19:17.19 | SpeedEvil | it's the green board at the top of the image. |
| 19:17.25 | ozamosi | Elrond: from the Neo1973_Hardware-wiki-page: "Accessible GSM/GPRS antenna jack (if battery cover is removed)" |
| 19:17.27 | *** part/#openmoko chairuou_home (i=chairuou@unaffiliated/chairuou) |
| 19:17.32 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: on top of that metal structure, right? |
| 19:17.35 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 19:17.44 | Elrond | ozamosi - Ahh. |
| 19:17.44 | LuitvD | ah |
| 19:18.05 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: and next to/below the SIM card slot is the micro-SD card slot, right? |
| 19:18.29 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 19:18.46 | SpeedEvil | The microsd card is under the inserted SIM. |
| 19:19.07 | SpeedEvil | I'm unsure - that jack may be GPS on reflection. |
| 19:19.19 | LuitvD | what are the jackplug and the button on the non-usb side for? |
| 19:19.40 | SpeedEvil | that's the '911/extra' buytton and the audio. |
| 19:19.42 | SpeedEvil | AIUI. |
| 19:19.42 | LuitvD | there's a jack and a button on each side... |
| 19:19.59 | SpeedEvil | One side is on-off and USB, the other alternate button and audio. |
| 19:20.00 | *** join/#openmoko mccarthy (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 19:20.10 | LuitvD | and the jack on the other side is for what, headset? gsm antenna? |
| 19:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 19:20.35 | SpeedEvil | Of the USB? |
| 19:20.48 | SpeedEvil | The one ont eh other side from the USB is stereo out and mic in. |
| 19:20.49 | LuitvD | oh wait, that ain't no jack :P |
| 19:20.50 | SpeedEvil | headset |
| 19:20.52 | LuitvD | that's the antenna |
| 19:20.55 | SpeedEvil | headset. |
| 19:21.01 | LuitvD | headset... |
| 19:21.05 | LuitvD | yeah... headset :P |
| 19:21.07 | LuitvD | makes more sense |
| 19:21.27 | SpeedEvil | Teh green board - the square thing on top of it is a ceramic bluetooth antenna. |
| 19:21.38 | LaF0rge | stefan: yes, i just merged into 2.6.20. seemed less painful than expected |
| 19:21.56 | LuitvD | lol, '911/other button' :P don't think 911 works here :P |
| 19:23.10 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: the thing with the hairpin-style leads is the antenna... |
| 19:23.23 | LuitvD | right? |
| 19:23.27 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-196-208.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 19:23.29 | SpeedEvil | hang on, I'm annotating. |
| 19:23.30 | stefan_schmidt | LaF0rge: nice. That means I have to fight with genirq again, when I like to kep up-to-date. :) |
| 19:23.42 | SpeedEvil | the image on the wiki rather than explaining on IRC :) |
| 19:24.16 | zecke|food | ljp: what did you do with sandman? did you suck him into a blackhole? |
| 19:24.40 | ljp | hes still up there |
| 19:25.26 | LuitvD | poor sandman... he must be about a nanometer in diameter now... |
| 19:25.27 | zecke|food | so you tricked him to hire at the munich office just to get him to oslo? |
| 19:26.03 | ljp | not real sure which office he is at |
| 19:26.23 | ljp | but hes on our internal irc |
| 19:26.33 | zecke|food | berlin one? I should give him a call |
| 19:28.51 | Psi_ | ^^ |
| 19:29.59 | SpeedEvil | http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973#Removing_PCB_from_case_frame added text |
| 19:29.59 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: that Bluetooth antenna is quite a thick piece of PCB :P |
| 19:30.06 | SpeedEvil | It's not PCB. |
| 19:30.31 | SpeedEvil | It's some ceramic material, with stuff in it. |
| 19:31.06 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: is that true? |
| 19:31.25 | LuitvD | the ceramic-ish material is of no use, since it's no conductor... |
| 19:31.50 | LuitvD | and it does look like multi-layered PCB |
| 19:32.18 | Psi_ | its a precisely tuned piece of ceramic glass, with a inner core of dark matter... or so i heard :P |
| 19:32.34 | LuitvD | Psi_: lol, good guess... but NO |
| 19:33.02 | LuitvD | i know what a bluetooth-antenna is like... and most of the time it's just a one-layered piece of PCB |
| 19:33.18 | LuitvD | with precisely measured copper leads... |
| 19:33.39 | LuitvD | (the length/size optimally tuned to the frequency of bluetooth) |
| 19:34.16 | ozamosi | Psi_: bah... Come back when it includes a black hole :) |
| 19:34.23 | LuitvD | too bad the vibrator is a visible-moving-parts-vibrator... |
| 19:34.37 | aloril2 | (7 cents and 160 bytes)/SMS is $437.5 / 1MiB, expensive indeed: would be cheaper to buy neo and send IM/email ;-) |
| 19:35.11 | leventhal | note to self.. never attempt TCP/IP over SMS |
| 19:35.14 | LuitvD | ozamosi: black matter is a better guess then black-hole :P |
| 19:35.21 | LuitvD | leventhal: LOL |
| 19:35.57 | ozamosi | LuitvD: but black holes are cooler :) |
| 19:36.04 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 19:36.26 | LuitvD | ozamosi: but not very portable ;) |
| 19:36.40 | LuitvD | ozamosi: dark matter is very portable :P |
| 19:37.05 | ozamosi | LuitvD: we'll make it a very small black hole! |
| 19:37.24 | LuitvD | ozamosi: still very heavy.... |
| 19:37.49 | LuitvD | hell, even a needlepin-sized black hole would be at lease 10 times your weight... |
| 19:37.55 | koen | rburton: inherit gnome autotools pkgconfig gtk-icon-cache didn't work |
| 19:37.58 | LuitvD | (or 20 times mine :P) |
| 19:38.12 | LuitvD | koen: ? |
| 19:38.13 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-19-42.media.mit.edu) |
| 19:38.14 | rburton | koen: god damn it |
| 19:39.04 | LuitvD | holy hell, did they drown the bluetooth PCB in solder-flux or something? :S |
| 19:39.32 | rburton | koen: when we make this build its going to be something very embarrassing i can tell |
| 19:39.32 | koen | rburton: My main annoyance is that I don't know what to blaim :( |
| 19:40.25 | koen | rburton: I bet it's a small typo somewhere |
| 19:40.25 | LuitvD | s/blaim/blame/ ? |
| 19:40.25 | koen | LuitvD: right |
| 19:40.25 | LuitvD | :P |
| 19:40.26 | buz | good luck getting thru airport security black matter |
| 19:40.38 | LuitvD | buz: dark matter, not black matter :P |
| 19:40.47 | buz | oh right |
| 19:40.49 | buz | still |
| 19:40.51 | LuitvD | lol |
| 19:40.56 | LuitvD | it happens all the time |
| 19:41.11 | buz | it does? |
| 19:41.14 | LuitvD | it's invisible... that makes it easy to get across the border |
| 19:41.34 | LuitvD | dark matter is actually something really invisible |
| 19:41.40 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 19:41.55 | LuitvD | some people can sense it, beats me how, but it's not visible... |
| 19:42.42 | LuitvD | xkr47: phase1 customer? |
| 19:43.07 | koen | rburton: NOTE: package dates-0.3.1-r0: task do_build: completed |
| 19:43.27 | rburton | koen: i just diffed clean source trees, nothing but the moko changes |
| 19:43.35 | rburton | i'd be curious to see what is different in the builds |
| 19:43.43 | koen | rburton: nothing strange in the autofoo? |
| 19:43.49 | rburton | nothing i can see |
| 19:43.57 | xkr47 | LuitvD, well.. I'm paying for my phone and getting one when they become available :) |
| 19:43.59 | buz | maybe if the light of their flashlights is drawn towards it... |
| 19:44.16 | buz | or eaten by it |
| 19:44.19 | SpeedEvil | Ok - more text added to some images in http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Disassembling_Neo1973 I think that covers all of it. |
| 19:44.30 | LuitvD | xkr47: how? |
| 19:44.37 | LuitvD | xkr47: /me wants :P |
| 19:44.43 | *** join/#openmoko rodgers (n=rodgers@billings.nlm.nih.gov) |
| 19:44.58 | SpeedEvil | This is based on mailing list stuff, knowledge of electronics, the pictures on the wiki, and the component diagram. |
| 19:45.12 | xkr47 | LuitvD, how to get a phone.. well just order from their pages.. as soon as it's possible:) |
| 19:45.23 | LuitvD | xkr47: :) thnkx |
| 19:45.55 | xkr47 | :) |
| 19:46.04 | LuitvD | strange, when calling, the GPS module is right next to your head... isn't that dangerous? :P |
| 19:46.17 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, niiice |
| 19:46.26 | ajturner | LuitvD - gps is passive |
| 19:46.32 | LuitvD | ajturner: I KNOW ! |
| 19:46.33 | LuitvD | :P |
| 19:46.41 | ajturner | you should worry more about GSM/WiFi/BT :) |
| 19:46.48 | LuitvD | thank you captain obvious |
| 19:47.14 | ajturner | not obvious to many |
| 19:47.18 | LuitvD | ajturner: just got that reaction from someone who walked by, looking at the pictures I had on my screen |
| 19:47.23 | LuitvD | ;) |
| 19:47.23 | buz | i'd be more worried about the battery |
| 19:47.25 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: On your user page, you mention visibility when off. |
| 19:47.25 | LuitvD | wanted to post |
| 19:47.38 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: the LCD datasheet says none. |
| 19:47.52 | *** part/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 19:47.58 | SpeedEvil | There is a tradeoff between visibility when off, and transparency. |
| 19:48.16 | SpeedEvil | You can either have 70% transmission, or 35% transmission, and 3% reflection. |
| 19:48.29 | buz | no reflection? that sucks |
| 19:48.32 | koen | -#!@INTLTOOL_PERL@ -w+ #!@INTLTOOL_PERL@ |
| 19:48.37 | buz | no clock when backlight is off :( |
| 19:48.37 | koen | rburton: could that be it? |
| 19:48.42 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: it might be visible... but it'd be very faint |
| 19:48.55 | rburton | koen: hmmm |
| 19:48.58 | SpeedEvil | I have never seen the display in question, it just says 'N/A' in the LCD selection matrix against reflection. |
| 19:49.03 | rburton | koen: no idea, i'll see what that does |
| 19:49.08 | SpeedEvil | One thing I've mentioned before. |
| 19:49.23 | xkr47 | SpeedEvil, ah so it's not usable without backlight ? |
| 19:49.34 | SpeedEvil | If you have one LED of the probable dozen in the backlight that's on constantly, then you can backlight a small patch. |
| 19:49.47 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: according to all information I've seen - no. |
| 19:49.50 | xkr47 | lol nice |
| 19:49.58 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: though if you can control the backlight (by PWM?) you can set the intensity, making it possible to set about 20% backlight when viewing the clock |
| 19:50.01 | xkr47 | can you control the backlight leds separately :O |
| 19:50.08 | SpeedEvil | xkr47: no. |
| 19:50.11 | xkr47 | hehe |
| 19:50.12 | buz | somehow i doubt it |
| 19:50.18 | LuitvD | lol |
| 19:50.20 | buz | tho it would be a neat thing to have |
| 19:50.25 | SpeedEvil | yes, PWMing it to a low level will give you some visibility at the cost of battery life. |
| 19:50.25 | LuitvD | would be madness to do that... |
| 19:50.28 | buz | blinkenlights |
| 19:50.38 | rburton | koen: intltool_perl, i think, is just the path to perl |
| 19:50.44 | koen | yes |
| 19:50.46 | buz | not sure if the hardware rellay likes you doing pwm on it |
| 19:50.47 | LuitvD | lol, PWM on a 10Hz frequency :P |
| 19:51.02 | LuitvD | howto: kill your eyes :P |
| 19:51.03 | koen | damn, no effect |
| 19:51.05 | rburton | koen: might be it, but why is it different? |
| 19:51.28 | LuitvD | buz: why not? |
| 19:51.31 | koen | different revisions of intltool-update I guess |
| 19:51.38 | buz | who knows |
| 19:51.47 | LuitvD | buz: what else do you think controls the backlight intensity... |
| 19:51.49 | buz | maybe it doesnt like current spikes very much |
| 19:51.54 | *** part/#openmoko diogenes (n=diogenes@hoas-fe35dd00-37.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 19:51.54 | SpeedEvil | It's LED. |
| 19:51.58 | buz | mhh point |
| 19:51.59 | SpeedEvil | LED backlights don't care. |
| 19:52.02 | LuitvD | every LED backlight I know is PWM--controlled |
| 19:52.09 | SpeedEvil | Consider http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/Image:Panel_top_panel.png |
| 19:52.26 | SpeedEvil | If this right bit only was illuminated, that would be reasonable information. |
| 19:52.27 | LuitvD | and the electronics should be adapted to accept PWM :P |
| 19:52.42 | SpeedEvil | It's software PWM as I understand it. |
| 19:53.10 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@80-192-23-26.stb.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:53.33 | SpeedEvil | Of course, there is a problem. The LCD requires frequent refreshing - probably at least 10Hz, or it will go out. |
| 19:53.38 | Elrond | yuck, so it eats cpu. |
| 19:53.39 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: I doubt that... |
| 19:53.42 | SpeedEvil | This means that the CPU would need to be on. |
| 19:53.56 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: where did you read that? |
| 19:54.00 | SpeedEvil | LCDs are not static devices, you can't write them and leave them to display images. |
| 19:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko univac (n=univac@xmms2/user/univac) |
| 19:54.06 | buz | just about any phone i've seen in the past 5 years shows clock when its on "standby" |
| 19:54.14 | SpeedEvil | There is no seperate display driver, it's integrated in the CPU. |
| 19:54.14 | LuitvD | even my microchips have at least 2 hardware-controlled PWM pins |
| 19:54.32 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: doesn't mean the CPU has to be turned on... |
| 19:54.33 | buz | SpeedEvil: neither is there for the cheap phones |
| 19:54.38 | SpeedEvil | So, you have to have the CPU at least a little on, in order to run the display. |
| 19:54.46 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: and I guess the power-control chip has a Backlight function too... |
| 19:54.50 | thedaniel | buz: my spendy htc windows mobile device does not show a clock |
| 19:54.56 | SpeedEvil | Look at the display driver chips. |
| 19:54.57 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: It even has a touchscreen interface |
| 19:54.59 | thedaniel | it has to blank the screen to go on standby |
| 19:55.02 | SpeedEvil | These are _dumb_ chips. |
| 19:55.05 | buz | that is probably more related to windows mobile than the hardware |
| 19:55.06 | Magon | PWM can be driven in semi sleep mode...all i have seen so far |
| 19:55.17 | SpeedEvil | They are just shift registers. |
| 19:55.21 | buz | my p900 shows a clockj |
| 19:55.28 | buz | but then again it has transreflective screen |
| 19:55.29 | rburton | koen: mickey might have fixed it |
| 19:55.35 | *** join/#openmoko phire (n=phire@125-238-96-112.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) |
| 19:55.36 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: shift register + clock, most likely, yes |
| 19:55.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - isn't this a tft? |
| 19:55.47 | koen | rburton: in svn? |
| 19:55.50 | SpeedEvil | There is no display RAM in there, so they can't self-refresh. |
| 19:55.51 | buz | not that i really need the clock |
| 19:55.53 | buz | but many do |
| 19:56.02 | buz | (i always and everywhere wear a watch) |
| 19:56.34 | LuitvD | darn, this chat is going way to quick for me :P |
| 19:56.37 | Elrond | buz - I can't wear a watch at work. ;) |
| 19:56.52 | buz | i don't work ;) |
| 19:56.58 | LuitvD | buz: lol! |
| 19:57.19 | *** join/#openmoko _rob_ (n=rob@ACB46155.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:57.24 | buz | not right now anyway |
| 19:57.27 | SpeedEvil | TFT displays do not maintain their state when you turn off the drive. |
| 19:57.34 | Elrond | I have to leave my phone in the office, when I go in the lab. I'd need to put off my watch too. ;) |
| 19:57.43 | SpeedEvil | They take a fair time to decay to invisibility though. |
| 19:57.56 | koen | rburton: what did mickeyl (not) do? |
| 19:58.02 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - how long? |
| 19:58.12 | *** part/#openmoko phire (n=phire@125-238-96-112.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) |
| 19:58.45 | buz | are there any battery life time experiences yet? |
| 19:58.56 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: dunno - it depends on display. On the ones I've seen (couple of notebooks) it was under a second. |
| 19:58.57 | LuitvD | Elrond: latex gloves? |
| 19:59.02 | Elrond | Note: The s3c2410 can be switched into 12MHz mode. (and takes a lot less energy then) |
| 19:59.08 | LuitvD | Elrond: latex gloves + watch is always bad :P |
| 19:59.18 | SpeedEvil | I've got to read the s3 datasheet. |
| 19:59.25 | Elrond | LuitvD - heavy static magnet fields. |
| 19:59.40 | LuitvD | Elrond: ah, I see... |
| 19:59.44 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: true - but can the display controller refresh the screen nominally then. |
| 20:00.10 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - It's an official mode of the CPU. |
| 20:00.10 | buz | Elrond: you need a PURE titanium watch ;) |
| 20:00.17 | LuitvD | Elrond: you do something chromatography-related or something? :P |
| 20:00.31 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: becasue it's a official mode does not mean that all peripherals work. |
| 20:00.36 | buz | MRI have large magnetic fields |
| 20:00.44 | buz | and potential for profound hilarity |
| 20:00.47 | SpeedEvil | Even small magnetic fields can kill stuff. |
| 20:00.55 | SpeedEvil | I lost an LCD backlight to a fridge magnet. |
| 20:00.57 | LuitvD | buz: do titanium-etch systems exist? :P |
| 20:01.08 | SpeedEvil | Saturated the magnetic transformer. |
| 20:01.13 | Elrond | buz - hilarity? |
| 20:01.20 | SpeedEvil | blew fuse - entirely repeatable. |
| 20:01.29 | buz | flying stuff fits my definition of hilarity |
| 20:01.40 | buz | then again i have a weird sense of humour |
| 20:01.44 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:01.48 | LuitvD | not at all... |
| 20:01.50 | harlekin | buz: its more eminent danger |
| 20:01.51 | LuitvD | (in my opinion) |
| 20:01.54 | harlekin | than hilarity |
| 20:02.07 | Elrond | Ahh, okay. |
| 20:02.39 | harlekin | buz: a metal knob once missed me only a little bit |
| 20:02.43 | LuitvD | buz: the magnetic field of those devices is overrated... |
| 20:02.59 | buz | i think there's different categories of mri |
| 20:03.04 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:03.38 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 20:03.39 | LuitvD | I once tried to change an NMR's magnetic field with my blood :) |
| 20:03.47 | *** part/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
| 20:03.54 | LuitvD | (iron in blood can be sensed magnetically) |
| 20:04.21 | ljp | and how did that work out for you? |
| 20:04.21 | LuitvD | stepping towards an NMR changes it's magnetic field a little :) |
| 20:04.33 | LuitvD | ljp: it felt odd... but it worked |
| 20:04.52 | koen | MRI is only ~2T |
| 20:04.54 | Elrond | LuitvD - What did you feel?! |
| 20:04.56 | harlekin | LuitvD: just think hard, thats enough |
| 20:05.02 | buz | only... |
| 20:05.09 | LuitvD | harlekin: to feel odd you mean? |
| 20:05.11 | buz | not exactly my definition of only |
| 20:05.33 | harlekin | LuitvD: no, to have impact on the mri image |
| 20:05.34 | harlekin | .-) |
| 20:05.40 | LuitvD | it felt odd because the magnets on that device were freezing cold |
| 20:05.48 | harlekin | LuitvD: guess qhy |
| 20:05.49 | LuitvD | harlekin: yeah, it's quite easy :P |
| 20:06.04 | LuitvD | harlekin: yeah, I know why, superconductance etc. |
| 20:06.06 | harlekin | LuitvD: fMRI <- thinking hard, less oxygen, different image |
| 20:06.18 | LuitvD | fMRI? |
| 20:06.25 | harlekin | functional MRI |
| 20:06.29 | LuitvD | ah |
| 20:06.36 | koen | - if grep "^AC_PROG_INTLTOOL" $CONFIGURE_AC >/dev/null; then |
| 20:06.36 | koen | + if grep "^[AI][CT]_PROG_INTLTOOL" $CONFIGURE_AC >/dev/null; then |
| 20:06.43 | harlekin | real time imaging to see _where_ the pacient is currently thinking |
| 20:06.48 | buz | fMRI is neat stuff |
| 20:06.51 | LuitvD | harlekin: no it's a diffrent device I played with... |
| 20:07.03 | buz | two economics professors at my university use them to figure out how people behave ;) |
| 20:07.05 | harlekin | LuitvD: is a different application |
| 20:07.05 | Elrond | Yep. |
| 20:07.11 | SpeedEvil | That's what we need in the neo. |
| 20:07.16 | SpeedEvil | fMRI. |
| 20:07.18 | harlekin | LuitvD: and also often a different devices as well |
| 20:07.26 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - In v4 ;) |
| 20:07.30 | buz | "Now you can read your opponents thoughts" |
| 20:07.30 | SpeedEvil | Can you get them in USB2D? |
| 20:07.32 | harlekin | SpeedEvil: yeah, a 2T field |
| 20:07.42 | LuitvD | harlekin: an NMR device to look at certain aromatic bindings... |
| 20:07.47 | koen | rburton: the change to autotools.bbclass fixed it |
| 20:07.50 | harlekin | SpeedEvil: great idea, will really fullfill its purpose as PHONE |
| 20:08.06 | harlekin | LuitvD: missed the NMR |
| 20:08.09 | harlekin | just saw MRI |
| 20:08.10 | harlekin | .-) |
| 20:08.12 | SpeedEvil | If it can read your mind, and give you information before you ask for it. |
| 20:08.13 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-196-208.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 20:08.14 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 20:08.14 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:08.17 | LuitvD | MRI is NMR too ;) |
| 20:08.18 | SpeedEvil | NMR = MRI |
| 20:08.25 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: lol, beaten |
| 20:08.27 | harlekin | LuitvD: but basicly NMR Is the same technique |
| 20:08.35 | SpeedEvil | Same thing, different name. It got renamed after 'nuclear' became a scary word. |
| 20:08.36 | LuitvD | ... |
| 20:08.36 | harlekin | SpeedEvil: LuitvD not really |
| 20:08.45 | buz | nucular==evil |
| 20:08.58 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 20:09.03 | harlekin | MRI == MRT (german) |
| 20:09.06 | LuitvD | buz: be happy you have nucliei |
| 20:09.16 | buz | Magnetic resonance imaging (MRI), formerly referred to as magnetic resonance tomography (MRT) or, in chemistry nuclear magnetic resonance (NMR), is a non-invasive method used to render images of the inside of an object |
| 20:09.16 | LuitvD | (plural of nucleus?) |
| 20:09.28 | harlekin | ii |
| 20:09.29 | buz | nucleii i think |
| 20:09.34 | SpeedEvil | yeah |
| 20:09.39 | LuitvD | buz: yeah |
| 20:09.44 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:09.48 | Elrond | hihi. |
| 20:09.55 | buz | LuitvD: i had biology/chemistry as my main topics in highschool ;) |
| 20:10.06 | Elrond | nmr alone is usually without the "I"maging. |
| 20:10.08 | LuitvD | but MRI was first called Nuclear Magnatic Resonance Imaging |
| 20:10.31 | LuitvD | the nucleii are the things that are resonating ;) |
| 20:10.40 | LuitvD | so MRI is an incomplete term... |
| 20:10.46 | harlekin | NMR != MRI |
| 20:10.47 | harlekin | .-) |
| 20:10.52 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:10.53 | LuitvD | I KNOW |
| 20:10.58 | LuitvD | but MRI is Nuclear too |
| 20:11.00 | harlekin | it is the same physical efect |
| 20:11.14 | LuitvD | yeah, that's what I'm saying :P |
| 20:11.16 | Elrond | MRI uses NMR. |
| 20:11.17 | harlekin | yeah, because it uses the spin effect of the nucleii |
| 20:11.29 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 20:11.31 | LuitvD | period |
| 20:11.32 | SpeedEvil | Magnetic field, twang it, listen to the twang. |
| 20:11.33 | harlekin | arg, in english NMR is overloaded |
| 20:11.34 | LuitvD | next subject :P |
| 20:11.38 | LuitvD | XD |
| 20:11.47 | buz | wtf is XD |
| 20:11.53 | SpeedEvil | Even works in earths normal magnetic field. |
| 20:11.58 | harlekin | basic procedure AS well as the basic effect |
| 20:11.59 | SpeedEvil | But the output frequency is really low. |
| 20:12.38 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Yep. We try to get the earth field out by applying soe coils that try to apply the inverse field. |
| 20:12.52 | SpeedEvil | http://fukung.net/v/245/1b-GSMinswearing1res.jpg |
| 20:12.53 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 20:12.55 | SpeedEvil | mischan |
| 20:13.01 | SpeedEvil | though sort of relevant. |
| 20:13.08 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:13.12 | LuitvD | gsm... |
| 20:13.32 | LuitvD | wehehe, GSM for assgoblins |
| 20:13.33 | LuitvD | nice |
| 20:13.52 | buz | lo |
| 20:13.53 | buz | l |
| 20:13.56 | LuitvD | "and that's how you get a fucking phonecall" :D |
| 20:14.18 | LuitvD | "Radio waves, they are fucking blue, shut up asshole" :P |
| 20:14.29 | LuitvD | s/shut/shut the fuck/ |
| 20:15.09 | zecke | mickey|dinner: is bitbake-1.6.4 the recommend version of bitbake? I would update the notes/wiki to not mention it :) |
| 20:16.05 | harlekin | :-) |
| 20:16.10 | LuitvD | lol, radiowaves should be red |
| 20:16.12 | LuitvD | :D |
| 20:16.58 | rd_ | a small advertising for any1 interesting in http://www.segfault.net/gsm/challenge1.txt |
| 20:16.58 | LuitvD | radiowaves are on the red side of the visible electromagnetic spectrum |
| 20:18.02 | LuitvD | rd_: what's that? |
| 20:18.19 | rd_ | LuitvD, check this project http://scratchpad.wikia.com/wiki/Gsm |
| 20:19.05 | rd_ | we're looking for more developers to join that project :) |
| 20:19.21 | LuitvD | rd_: is that... trying to decode GSM phone calls? |
| 20:19.53 | rd_ | LuitvD, yeap .. kind of |
| 20:20.02 | LuitvD | decoding GSM traffic... |
| 20:20.05 | LuitvD | right? |
| 20:20.08 | *** join/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:22.07 | buz | uhm radiowaves as in EM waves can be pretty much any part of the spectrum |
| 20:22.26 | LuitvD | buz: heuh? |
| 20:22.53 | LuitvD | radiowaves are low-frequency EM waves |
| 20:23.38 | LuitvD | the other side of the EM spectrum is gammarays and röntgen and UV and stuff... |
| 20:24.07 | buz | well if you consider stuff up to say 200mhz to be radio, then sure |
| 20:24.30 | buz | i would say UV is pretty much on the low end still |
| 20:24.56 | rd_ | LuitvD, check the "Project Stages and Schedule" section on that wiki page |
| 20:25.06 | koen | wooooo |
| 20:25.07 | buz | oh wait |
| 20:25.13 | koen | another batch of bugs fixed |
| 20:25.23 | LuitvD | buz: radio is everything below 10^9Hz |
| 20:25.41 | buz | then what is WiFi |
| 20:25.47 | buz | or GSM 1800 for one |
| 20:25.47 | LuitvD | radio |
| 20:25.52 | LuitvD | all radio |
| 20:26.41 | LuitvD | well.. 10 ^ 10 Hz is still radio :P |
| 20:27.12 | LuitvD | a bit higher and they're microwaves :) |
| 20:27.39 | *** part/#openmoko mccarthy (n=mccarthy@granular.che.pitt.edu) |
| 20:28.46 | LuitvD | at least up to 10 GHz it's all radio |
| 20:29.40 | LuitvD | rd_: I'll take a look :) |
| 20:29.52 | LuitvD | the electronics part is quite interesting |
| 20:30.36 | LuitvD | rd_: I'm more of en electronics guy then software developer :) |
| 20:32.33 | buz | i think someone wanted to build an opensource HARDWARE phone at some point |
| 20:33.09 | LuitvD | buz: the tuxphone |
| 20:33.32 | LuitvD | buz: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TuxPhone |
| 20:33.38 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 20:34.08 | buz | oh yeah now i remember why i never got one ;) |
| 20:34.12 | koen | mickey|dinner: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/391406865/ <- bug 186 fixed :D |
| 20:35.24 | LuitvD | koen: is that an actual screenshot from within openmoko? :| |
| 20:36.39 | buz | well the htc universal works quite well i hear ;) |
| 20:37.03 | SpeedEvil | What's the circular thing at the bottom left. |
| 20:37.12 | LuitvD | and the device koen uses... |
| 20:37.20 | SpeedEvil | I've seen it in a number of images and missed an explanation. |
| 20:37.29 | rburton | koen: i presume i can close 185 now? |
| 20:37.33 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: some sort of clickwheel |
| 20:37.42 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: for finger-based input |
| 20:37.53 | buz | well the ipaq isnt big on phoning |
| 20:38.18 | LuitvD | buz: true, but it has a massive cpu and a nice screen :) |
| 20:38.39 | SpeedEvil | LuitvD: ah. |
| 20:39.56 | buz | i somehow doubt it |
| 20:40.03 | buz | geeks and wood usually doesnt really fit |
| 20:40.20 | SpeedEvil | Wood can be very pretty and feel nice. |
| 20:40.37 | buz | i'm more for metal myself |
| 20:40.39 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: nice steel or aluminium cases would do... |
| 20:40.49 | SpeedEvil | Metal has subtle problems for a phone :) |
| 20:40.55 | buz | ... shit for rf reception yes |
| 20:40.56 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-196-208.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 20:41.05 | LuitvD | stainless brushed steel, or magnesium/aluminium |
| 20:41.14 | buz | titanium |
| 20:41.16 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:41.17 | SpeedEvil | If metal, I want damasteel. |
| 20:41.23 | LuitvD | damasteel? |
| 20:41.32 | buz | lol |
| 20:41.33 | SpeedEvil | Which is a fake damasus steel, made by powder metallurgy. |
| 20:41.49 | LuitvD | i'd like spring-steel :P |
| 20:42.00 | buz | brushed stainless |
| 20:42.03 | SpeedEvil | You take two sorts of micro-fine stainless powders. Print them together in a pattern sort of 3d-prototyping like. |
| 20:42.03 | buz | where can i sign up |
| 20:42.10 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:42.31 | buz | maybe if you connect the gsm antenna to the case |
| 20:42.33 | SpeedEvil | Then seal in a steel container, and under vacuum and 1000C, squeeze it together till it's homogenous. |
| 20:43.00 | SpeedEvil | This gives you a stainless (once treated) metal that's really really strong, and has pretty wood-like grain. |
| 20:43.20 | SpeedEvil | http://www.damasteel.biz/ |
| 20:43.29 | SpeedEvil | On the downside, it's as expensive as silver. |
| 20:43.35 | LuitvD | and it's several hundreds of dollars for each device? |
| 20:43.46 | SpeedEvil | Pretty much :) |
| 20:44.31 | LuitvD | as expensive as your phone :P |
| 20:45.22 | buz | silver is not really that expensive |
| 20:45.40 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: and 1000atm isn't exactly 'under vacuum' :P |
| 20:45.40 | SpeedEvil | No, it's not cheap - especially when you have to mill the stuff away to get the grain effect. |
| 20:45.52 | SpeedEvil | You evacuate the gas, then press it. |
| 20:45.58 | SpeedEvil | So that tehre are no gas bubbles. |
| 20:45.59 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: it'd be nice though... very nice... |
| 20:45.59 | LuitvD | :P |
| 20:46.22 | buz | yeah it looks nice |
| 20:46.32 | buz | but titanium would be fine by me ;) |
| 20:46.38 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:46.45 | SpeedEvil | I'm in the process of making a flashlight with some of this. |
| 20:46.58 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 20:47.12 | buz | titanium is $$$ |
| 20:47.34 | SpeedEvil | Titanium however can be molded. |
| 20:47.44 | SpeedEvil | Or pressed. |
| 20:48.01 | LuitvD | I think a magnesium-aluminium hull would do fine... it's strong, it looks nice, you can anodize it in any color you like... |
| 20:48.05 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-196-208.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 20:48.06 | LuitvD | and it still is metal |
| 20:48.22 | LuitvD | and doesn't interfere with the RF signals that much |
| 20:48.27 | SpeedEvil | Err - what? |
| 20:48.29 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 20:48.38 | SpeedEvil | It's completely opaque to RF. |
| 20:48.39 | LuitvD | ? |
| 20:48.42 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@80-192-23-26.stb.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 20:48.51 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: that's what I'm saying... |
| 20:48.53 | SpeedEvil | magnesium-aluminium. |
| 20:48.56 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:48.57 | LuitvD | doesn't interfere... |
| 20:49.01 | LuitvD | interfere.. |
| 20:49.05 | LuitvD | hmm, is that the correct word? :P |
| 20:49.59 | SpeedEvil | You could use transparent aluminium. (lab-grown-sapphire) But that'd be silly :) |
| 20:50.02 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:50.28 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:50.31 | *** part/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:50.41 | buz | make it blue |
| 20:50.46 | buz | and sell it as ultimate bling |
| 20:51.01 | LuitvD | buz: black... anodized black |
| 20:51.08 | buz | yeah |
| 20:51.08 | LuitvD | like the Palm TX |
| 20:51.12 | LuitvD | :) |
| 20:51.15 | LuitvD | that's black alu |
| 20:51.23 | buz | black gold ehehehe |
| 20:51.34 | LuitvD | and it does look kinky: http://www.digitaltechnews.com/news/images/palm_tx_handheld.jpg |
| 20:52.00 | buz | saphire plated screen |
| 20:52.01 | *** join/#openmoko jgm (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 20:52.06 | buz | now THAT would be something |
| 20:52.08 | LuitvD | lol |
| 20:52.11 | SpeedEvil | I've suggested that. |
| 20:52.17 | SpeedEvil | With a SAW touchscreen. |
| 20:52.21 | LuitvD | that'd be bad for the touchscreen... |
| 20:52.24 | SpeedEvil | (more expensive though. |
| 20:52.28 | LuitvD | saw? |
| 20:52.35 | LuitvD | with multitouch :P |
| 20:52.37 | SpeedEvil | SAW touchscreens use sound bounced around inside the glass. |
| 20:52.44 | SpeedEvil | They can be multitouch. |
| 20:53.05 | *** part/#openmoko sircrow (n=sircrow@sd511685b.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:53.10 | SpeedEvil | Actually - diamond plated glass isn't that expensive. |
| 20:53.17 | SpeedEvil | It's sold as barcode scanner windows. |
| 20:53.21 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 20:53.32 | SpeedEvil | For use dragging tins over all day. |
| 20:53.40 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: damasteel with the openmoko-logo as the pattern :) |
| 20:53.46 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 20:53.59 | LuitvD | that'd be a work of art... |
| 20:53.59 | koen | SAW as in surface acoustic wave? |
| 20:54.03 | LuitvD | nearly impossible |
| 20:54.10 | LuitvD | koen: most likely |
| 20:54.30 | SpeedEvil | koen: yes. |
| 20:54.46 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe34dd00-216.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 20:54.48 | SpeedEvil | It's used in touchscreens that have to be pretty robust. |
| 20:55.34 | mitsuhiko | whois XorA|gone |
| 20:56.00 | LuitvD | s/whois/\/whois/ :P |
| 20:56.50 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: it can be used to make a chalkboard act like a touch-screen :) |
| 20:59.24 | SpeedEvil | Well - the material needs to be carefully chosen to not absorb audio. |
| 21:00.20 | Elrond | The wiki is again slashdotted? |
| 21:00.36 | LuitvD | :P |
| 21:00.53 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.1.19) |
| 21:01.06 | LuitvD | not slashdotted I guess... |
| 21:01.14 | LuitvD | but something with similar symptoms |
| 21:01.30 | SpeedEvil | digg? |
| 21:02.00 | SpeedEvil | ttp://news.google.co.uk/news?client=firefox-a&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=neo1973&btnG=Google+Search&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wn |
| 21:02.02 | LuitvD | beats me |
| 21:02.07 | SpeedEvil | slashgear an hour ago |
| 21:02.09 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 21:02.35 | LuitvD | and gizmodo :) |
| 21:02.41 | SpeedEvil | http://www.slashgear.com/openmoko-and-fic-neo1973-updates-153926.php |
| 21:02.42 | LuitvD | 6 hours |
| 21:02.45 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 21:02.48 | LuitvD | looking at that now |
| 21:03.32 | Elrond | So it's slashgear'd. ;| |
| 21:04.41 | LuitvD | bah, the white+orange device looks too plastic-ish |
| 21:05.03 | SpeedEvil | On one of the sites: and next 'Next up, we have a very risque picture of Sports Illustrated bikini model Marisa Miller wearing nothing more than an iPod. Could Apple ask for a cooler bit of free advertising? I think not. ' |
| 21:05.11 | SpeedEvil | We need someone to step up. ;0 |
| 21:05.57 | LuitvD | :P |
| 21:06.14 | LuitvD | the fic is bigger then an ipod... so ... it should be easyer :P |
| 21:07.39 | buz | TWO babes |
| 21:08.22 | LuitvD | XD |
| 21:08.33 | buz | but please not paris f***** hilton |
| 21:08.44 | buz | i swear i wont buy it if she advertises it |
| 21:08.55 | Elrond | http://www.slashgear.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/__-15tif-16604.jpg |
| 21:09.03 | leventhal | i don't know.. good tech is very seductive |
| 21:09.03 | SpeedEvil | 'falling off a cliff, after being distracted by the shinyness of her new neo.' |
| 21:09.05 | Elrond | What are the things there from top to bottom? |
| 21:09.06 | leventhal | i bought a hiptop in spite of her |
| 21:09.10 | LuitvD | buz: that's one more Neo for my if I'd get her to do it :) |
| 21:10.28 | Elrond | The big thingy is usb, right? |
| 21:10.28 | SpeedEvil | GSM jack (I think, may be GPS) USB button, left speaker grill. |
| 21:11.03 | buz | you do three somes with yours? |
| 21:11.11 | SpeedEvil | s/B b/B,b/ |
| 21:11.42 | LuitvD | Elrond: it's mini USB or something ... |
| 21:11.45 | SpeedEvil | I would check the wiki to see if anyones corrected my assertion that it's GSM, but... |
| 21:11.51 | SpeedEvil | A/B socket or something. |
| 21:11.56 | SpeedEvil | It's standardish. |
| 21:12.07 | LuitvD | yeah, it's on the back of my phone too... |
| 21:12.14 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - So the headset jack is on the other side? |
| 21:12.15 | LuitvD | think it's for the GSM antenna... |
| 21:12.19 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 21:12.47 | LuitvD | the thing next to the USB isn't a jackplug ;) |
| 21:13.02 | SpeedEvil | yes, jack on the other side. |
| 21:13.11 | SpeedEvil | I've prolly got a copy of the page locally, hang on |
| 21:13.19 | LuitvD | 2.5mm or 3.5mm? |
| 21:13.46 | Elrond | What I still haven't gotten: According to the datasheet (and looking at kernel stuff), it seems, the CPU has two usb connections (host _and_ device). Which one is going outside? |
| 21:13.51 | Elrond | LuitvD - I think 2.5mm |
| 21:14.12 | Elrond | LuitvD - I think, someone complained about not-3.5mm ;o) |
| 21:14.31 | LuitvD | Elrond: yeah, but someone mistyped 3.5mm here :P |
| 21:14.41 | buz | the host device combo is going outside |
| 21:14.43 | LuitvD | not here... on some website |
| 21:14.43 | Elrond | LuitvD - Hmm. ;) |
| 21:14.46 | buz | i think |
| 21:14.58 | LuitvD | Elrond: so I just wanted to be sure |
| 21:15.04 | SpeedEvil | No - I don't. |
| 21:15.14 | Elrond | LuitvD - Okay, just ignore my answers better. |
| 21:15.18 | SpeedEvil | Both host and device. |
| 21:15.24 | SpeedEvil | It's switchable. |
| 21:15.26 | LuitvD | yeah, both |
| 21:15.32 | LuitvD | like the palm livedrive |
| 21:16.05 | Elrond | Ahh. I haven't seen any switching patches for the kernel though? |
| 21:17.48 | LuitvD | Elrond: too bad there's no such thing as a selective /ignore :P |
| 21:18.00 | SpeedEvil | http://www.m |
| 21:18.12 | SpeedEvil | http://www.mauve.plus.com/apart.tar.bz2 |
| 21:18.20 | SpeedEvil | Is a copy of the dissasembly page |
| 21:18.33 | SpeedEvil | with my notes of what everything is - I think this is the current one on the wiki |
| 21:18.38 | SpeedEvil | 800k |
| 21:18.45 | SpeedEvil | Don't /. it :) |
| 21:19.19 | LuitvD | :P |
| 21:19.30 | LuitvD | don't tell me not to :P |
| 21:20.16 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.1) |
| 21:20.22 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 21:22.28 | *** join/#openmoko jg1 (n=jgm@host-87-74-179-156.bulldogdsl.com) |
| 21:27.17 | *** join/#openmoko dion (n=dion@xen.inhex.net) |
| 21:32.45 | *** join/#openmoko etheisen (n=etheisen@user-11210ka.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 21:35.48 | LuitvD | wow, firefox really likes to crash today... :S |
| 21:36.02 | SpeedEvil | Mine hasn't. |
| 21:36.12 | LuitvD | which version? |
| 21:36.13 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.1) |
| 21:36.38 | LuitvD | everything on this Fedora installation seems to be crashing... |
| 21:36.46 | LuitvD | xmms, firefox, gaim...:S |
| 21:36.46 | SpeedEvil | 1.5 |
| 21:36.56 | LuitvD | (not alltogether ofcourse) |
| 21:37.04 | LuitvD | hmm, I'm using 2.0 |
| 21:37.14 | LuitvD | (like the new functions of 2) |
| 21:38.16 | SpeedEvil | Ok - indirect confirmation - it's a GSM jack on the side, not GPS. |
| 21:38.36 | SpeedEvil | Harald went through my additions to the wiki, and diddn't nuke that bit, though he did a couple of other errors. |
| 21:38.46 | thresh | that's ok, fedora is meant to be that |
| 21:40.34 | LaF0rge | I always do error |
| 21:40.40 | LaF0rge | it's a GPS jack on the side |
| 21:40.47 | LaF0rge | the GSM jack is behind the battery cover |
| 21:40.59 | Elrond | Oh, so the other way round? |
| 21:41.00 | koen | isn't it labeled 'GPS'? |
| 21:41.14 | koen | silkscreened on the pcb? |
| 21:41.16 | LaF0rge | please update the wiki |
| 21:41.26 | LaF0rge | koen: what is labelled GPS? |
| 21:41.35 | LaF0rge | we have three antenna sockets on the pcb |
| 21:41.38 | LaF0rge | two are for GPS, one for GSM |
| 21:41.42 | LaF0rge | GPS internal / external |
| 21:42.29 | koen | LaF0rge: http://wiki.openmoko.org/images/thumb/4/45/Gta01b_v2_debugport_closed.jpg/600px-Gta01b_v2_debugport_closed.jpg |
| 21:44.27 | LaF0rge | koen: there is no connector there |
| 21:44.27 | koen | LaF0rge: no troubles with EABI in userland, only uboot (and hence the kernel) are giving troubles |
| 21:44.30 | LaF0rge | koen: there are GPS_rxd/txd/cts/rts test pad |
| 21:44.37 | koen | ah, I see |
| 21:44.41 | LaF0rge | that's for the UART |
| 21:45.41 | LaF0rge | :) |
| 21:45.52 | LaF0rge | isn't that debug port pic close enough? |
| 21:46.09 | koen | to show the port, yes |
| 21:46.20 | cjb | are there any photos of a device with the screen actually turned on? |
| 21:46.28 | koen | a lot |
| 21:46.36 | cjb | whereabouts? |
| 21:47.10 | koen | http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos// |
| 21:47.29 | koen | e.g. http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01bv2_omoko/img_5391.jpg |
| 21:47.35 | LuitvD | omg, what did you do to that poor thing |
| 21:47.50 | LuitvD | DAMN that resolution is awesome |
| 21:47.58 | LuitvD | http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos/gta01bv2_omoko/img_5391.jpg |
| 21:48.00 | LuitvD | sorry |
| 21:48.05 | LuitvD | wrong window/channel |
| 21:48.08 | LuitvD | :P |
| 21:49.37 | LuitvD | http://people.openmoko.org/laforge/photos//GTA01v3_tuxboot_highres.jpg |
| 21:49.40 | LuitvD | that one is even nicer |
| 21:49.44 | LuitvD | to show the resolution |
| 21:51.11 | cjb | okay, rephrase: are there any photos of the device, with the case on, and the screen on? :) |
| 21:51.21 | LuitvD | lol |
| 21:51.38 | LaF0rge | cjb: mh, I don't think I've taken such pictures yet |
| 21:51.48 | cjb | since it looks like any generic development board with the case off :) |
| 21:51.52 | LaF0rge | cjb: Sometimes I have real work ;). And apparently nobody else takes pictures so far |
| 21:52.13 | LaF0rge | cjb: will try to remember it if I'm taking pictures for a different purpose anyway |
| 21:52.38 | cjb | thanks :) |
| 21:53.20 | cjb | by the way, condolences on your setbacks. We've seen all too similar things happen at OLPC, including having to do all the culture shock work. |
| 21:53.39 | stefan_schmidt | mickey|dinner: Is http://wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/How_to_run_OpenMoko_Apps_on_PC intended to work with latest svn? Fails to find some gtk header files even if they are installed. |
| 21:53.57 | cjb | Embedded companies often expect you can take a kernel from a year or two ago, hack it around, and ship like that. |
| 21:55.06 | koen | cjb: only 2 years ago? You optimist |
| 21:55.08 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr_ (n=orospakr@ip-174.49.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net) |
| 21:56.26 | *** join/#openmoko etheisen (n=etheisen@user-11210ka.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 21:56.41 | Elrond | LaF0rge - Can you read the console with only your normal eyes (like in the GTA01v3_tuxboot_highres.jpg pic) |
| 21:57.20 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: Where does it break? |
| 21:58.04 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: http://rafb.net/p/jmJ5bk50.html |
| 21:58.09 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: hi, btw |
| 21:58.16 | cjb | moko-alignment.h:22:30: error: gtk/gtkalignment.h: No such file or directory |
| 21:58.35 | xkr47 | has anyone thought of transporting the material from the inofficial wiki ? |
| 21:58.41 | stefan_schmidt | cjb: So you have the same problem? |
| 21:59.05 | cjb | no |
| 21:59.25 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: Do it asap and delete the old one to keep the stuff at one place |
| 21:59.31 | koen | xkr47: did I hear you volunteering? |
| 21:59.44 | fluffs | cjb: you are lucky you picked a cpu where at least one `embedded company` cares enough to keep track with the current kernel |
| 22:00.43 | xkr47 | koen, well I could help with the stuff I know what do about |
| 22:00.44 | *** join/#openmoko zecke (n=ich@91.64.160.193) |
| 22:00.47 | xkr47 | s/about/with/ |
| 22:01.30 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: I have a different error one file later. |
| 22:01.37 | cjb | fluffs: it's true. it wasn |
| 22:01.48 | alphaone | In moko-application.c |
| 22:01.51 | cjb | wasn't the CPU we had problems with, though :) |
| 22:02.30 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: http://rafb.net/p/MvDPMI84.html |
| 22:02.51 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: hmm, perhaps it is intended to break right now. We should wait for mickey|dinner, or fix it and send patches.:) |
| 22:03.05 | alphaone | This seems to be caused by the strange escaping in -DPKGDATADIR=\\\"/\\\" -DDATADIR=\\\"/\\\" -DG_LOG_DOMAIN=\\\"mokoui\\\" |
| 22:04.07 | alphaone | I can fix that error by replacing the defines with ='"/"' |
| 22:04.46 | alphaone | But I'm still looking for the place to change it in one of the makefile.am or whatever files... |
| 22:05.04 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: its qmake. mickey|dinner pet. |
| 22:05.40 | LaF0rge | xkr: you should see our internal wiki ;) |
| 22:05.43 | SpeedEvil | LaF0rge: About antenna connectors. The two GPS connectors (internal and external) are next to each other, and the GSM one is not accessible without taking the original antenna off? |
| 22:05.57 | loufoque | Can I use Python on openmoko? |
| 22:06.04 | zecke | yeah, spare time starts :) |
| 22:06.07 | LaF0rge | speed: no, the GSM is accessible as soon as you remove the back cover |
| 22:06.16 | LaF0rge | the internal antenna doesn't need aconnector |
| 22:06.20 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, :) |
| 22:06.46 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, do you have another such page for the calypso ?-) |
| 22:06.46 | *** join/#openmoko IcE-bOy (n=javi@203.red-82-158-30.user.auna.net) |
| 22:07.04 | alphaone | zecke: Hi |
| 22:07.04 | LaF0rge | xkr: no, but I have a couple of hundred pages printed paper on it |
| 22:07.39 | LaF0rge | xkr: and a calypso devel board. if only i had time to play with it... |
| 22:08.01 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 22:08.18 | SpeedEvil | LaF0rge: Ah - right, misunderstood the geometry. Adding to wiki. |
| 22:08.28 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, you mean there are unused features in the calypso currently or..? |
| 22:08.30 | LaF0rge | speed: thanks |
| 22:09.23 | LaF0rge | xkr: yes, there's a lot of stuff unused in there, but we'll never going to be able to use them. that chip is bascially a full feature phone chip, it contains its own LCD controller, keypad matrix interface, etc. |
| 22:09.34 | xkr47 | :O |
| 22:09.56 | IcE-bOy | hi |
| 22:09.57 | xkr47 | so is it in use in as full capacity as it will ever be ? |
| 22:10.06 | fluffs | calypso board? |
| 22:10.07 | IcE-bOy | are there any way to sync a nokia 9300 with evolution ? |
| 22:10.29 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: the gsm chip |
| 22:10.33 | fluffs | ah |
| 22:10.50 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, sorry forgot to prefix |
| 22:11.47 | LaF0rge | xkr: yeah. it's really hard even for us to get firmware changes done |
| 22:11.51 | SpeedEvil | LaF0rge: is there a seperate USB port on the devel plug, or is it just wired to the existing one? |
| 22:12.02 | LaF0rge | xkr: currently waiting for a firmware update just because of some minor sound config issue |
| 22:12.13 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, understandable.. well I guess you're happy with what it does anyway :) |
| 22:12.26 | LaF0rge | xkr: it sucks if you don't have the source. I even know which bit in whcih register to set (due to hw docs). |
| 22:13.44 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, any page on what hardware you have evaluated ? |
| 22:13.46 | LaF0rge | speed: there's no usb on the debug connector |
| 22:13.52 | SpeedEvil | K. |
| 22:13.54 | LaF0rge | speed: the FPC can't transport enough power |
| 22:13.57 | SpeedEvil | Is there a pinout? |
| 22:14.28 | LaF0rge | speed: it will be public. but the current pinout is changing from v3 -> v4 (debug board will be compatible) |
| 22:14.50 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@ip-174.49.99.216.dsl-cust.ca.inter.net) |
| 22:14.50 | LaF0rge | so there's no point in publicizing the current one, if the lines will not be there ;) |
| 22:15.24 | SpeedEvil | Ok. I'm just trying to work out possibilities for [[expansion back]] - user-plug-in-able hardware upgrades. |
| 22:15.29 | alphaone | LaF0rge: But p0 phone is v3 or is that old info on the wiki? |
| 22:15.41 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-212-120.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:16.47 | LaF0rge | alpha: no, p0 phone is v3. they're already produced, just waiting for the bluetooth module |
| 22:16.57 | *** join/#openmoko vetetix (n=vetetix@241.25-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 22:17.53 | alphaone | LaF0rge: Ah okay. Do you happen to know what color the p0 phones will be? |
| 22:18.14 | alphaone | Not that that matters for a devphone, but... :-) |
| 22:18.26 | stefan_schmidt | wb mickeyl |
| 22:19.37 | alphaone | Okay, now I'm stuck at compiling openmoko-contacts |
| 22:19.40 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, off you go! :) |
| 22:19.59 | LaF0rge | xkr: too late now anyway, and there are no good delivery places here :( |
| 22:20.05 | kimuSan^ | what do one need to do to get hands on a developer version when they are out? |
| 22:20.12 | koen | hey mickeyl |
| 22:20.14 | kimuSan^ | of Neo that is |
| 22:20.29 | xkr47 | LaF0rge, sounds familiar :/ well hopefully you got something to eat.. :P |
| 22:20.34 | koen | mickeyl: http://www.flickr.com/photos/koenkooi/391406865/ |
| 22:20.39 | stefan_schmidt | kimuSan^: Just order one |
| 22:21.16 | kimuSan^ | stefan_schmidt: ahhh thought that there was no possibility to order one before it is available in the final version |
| 22:21.28 | kimuSan^ | can I order it already ? |
| 22:22.08 | stefan_schmidt | kimuSan^: dev versions can be order late march |
| 22:22.11 | LaF0rge | kimu: nope. but I think Sean is working on a pre-order site |
| 22:22.12 | mickeyl | koen: neat! The wheel and the buttons will change soon though |
| 22:22.28 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: you need qmake from qt4 |
| 22:22.36 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: but really, use autotools, that's supported. |
| 22:22.37 | SpeedEvil | LaF0rge: earlier a [[People interested in preorder]] page was mentioned. Bad idea? |
| 22:22.52 | koen | mickeyl: I assumed the wheel was, well... a wheel |
| 22:22.58 | LaF0rge | speed: there's no point in that page anyway. and it raises data protection issues ;) |
| 22:23.10 | kimuSan^ | LaF0rge: great. |
| 22:23.11 | koen | mickeyl: bit I found it's just 2 buttons |
| 22:23.39 | SpeedEvil | Not really. Just notes saying 'I'm interested in 2' from logged in users. |
| 22:23.46 | kimuSan^ | just need to get my boss to allow me to order a couple of them :-) |
| 22:23.47 | SpeedEvil | No paypal :) |
| 22:23.50 | mickeyl | koen: the wheel wheel be (kidding) |
| 22:23.51 | mickeyl | will be |
| 22:23.55 | koen | mickeyl: actually 3 buttons: up, down, crash |
| 22:24.02 | mickeyl | *sigh* |
| 22:24.08 | mickeyl | yeah, shanghai still didn't fix the crash |
| 22:24.16 | mickeyl | i can only do so much... |
| 22:24.24 | mickeyl | it's going to be a wheel eventually |
| 22:24.33 | mickeyl | like a GtkRange |
| 22:24.37 | koen | crash > OOM + crash |
| 22:24.38 | mickeyl | emitting absolute and relative modes |
| 22:24.50 | koen | so it's a net improvement |
| 22:25.29 | kimuSan^ | was the bluetooth chip delayed or? |
| 22:26.01 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: ok, i try autotools |
| 22:26.37 | mickeyl | *nod* |
| 22:26.38 | koen | mickeyl: apart from panel-demo I can build task-openmoko without the FIC bbcollection |
| 22:26.58 | mickeyl | thanks for the bug reports, koen. i'll find may way through 'em in the next 2h |
| 22:27.02 | mickeyl | bbiab |
| 22:27.48 | zecke | koen: hehe, you manage to keep it |
| 22:31.24 | koen | mickeyl: http://svnweb.openmoko.org/trunk/?rev=996&view=rev is in OE now |
| 22:35.46 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.250.163.171) |
| 22:36.01 | *** join/#openmoko sixfeet (n=sixfeet@p5484D6F9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:36.01 | fluffs | updating 2.6.17 => 2.6.20 shouldn't have been too bad |
| 22:36.05 | sixfeet | re |
| 22:36.28 | koen | fluffs: mostly genirq related breakage |
| 22:36.32 | koen | I'd guess |
| 22:36.42 | xkr47 | hmm.. the lcd manufacturer says the mass production of the LCD used in neo started/starts Q1/07 |
| 22:36.42 | LaF0rge | fluffs: no, was surprisingly easy. most time was spent hunting the framebuffer bug and the asoc dma alloc bug |
| 22:36.43 | sixfeet | are there release news?? |
| 22:36.45 | LaF0rge | koen: workqueue |
| 22:36.59 | koen | and of course workqueue :) |
| 22:37.09 | koen | how could I forget the endless threads on LAK about it |
| 22:37.29 | fluffs | LaF0rge: ah, yes, dma api changed slightly, and the fb bug is, iirc found |
| 22:38.04 | koen | LaF0rge: lrg said he's aiming for neo-alsa in 2.6.22 |
| 22:38.18 | LaF0rge | koen: I'm aiming for ARCH_GTA01 in 2.6.22 ;) |
| 22:38.22 | fluffs | yeah, he said that to me too... I'd like to migrate our boards to ASOC |
| 22:38.34 | fluffs | LaF0rge: ARCH_ ? |
| 22:38.38 | fluffs | MACH_ please |
| 22:38.40 | sixfeet | !bot |
| 22:38.54 | koen | asoc should be in .21 |
| 22:39.18 | fluffs | yeah, might take a while to get everything else in |
| 22:39.20 | LaF0rge | fluffs: MACH, sorry ;) |
| 22:39.34 | LaF0rge | fluffs: I would love to rename it to NEO1973, but it's already in mach-ids for serveral months |
| 22:39.46 | fluffs | LaF0rge: i'll ask rmk nicely |
| 22:39.49 | kimuSan^ | how did it end with the touchscreen? was it single or multi input? |
| 22:40.04 | stefan_schmidt | kimuSan^: single |
| 22:40.05 | koen | kimuSan^: single |
| 22:40.12 | kimuSan^ | ok |
| 22:41.09 | kimuSan^ | could be nice with multiple though :-) have been playing around with the new xinput but it is just not as fun with 2 mice instead of using two fingers |
| 22:41.32 | koen | I just realise I don't have any boards using uboot |
| 22:41.41 | mickeyl | uboot rocks |
| 22:41.52 | mickeyl | at least together with a Welte wizard ;) |
| 22:41.58 | koen | mickeyl: look at its buildsystem and dare to say it again |
| 22:42.42 | koen | mickeyl: you can't 'configure' it, since 'configure' will start building uboot when all I need is the mkimage tool |
| 22:43.43 | LaF0rge | well, uboot is really a huge pile of chunks of code from various sources, hacked together |
| 22:44.06 | fluffs | -j5 is quite nice and fast |
| 22:44.21 | *** join/#openmoko rodgers (n=rodgers@billings.nlm.nih.gov) |
| 22:44.30 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 22:44.59 | *** join/#openmoko etheisen (n=etheisen@user-11210ka.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 22:45.07 | fluffs | I think I need a chastity belt for my wallet |
| 22:45.13 | rodgers | lol |
| 22:45.16 | koen | fluffs: expanding your s3c collection? |
| 22:45.19 | LaF0rge | fluffs: well, you'll get the neo for free ;) |
| 22:45.19 | fluffs | yeah |
| 22:45.21 | rodgers | hand it to me ill take care of it for you |
| 22:45.42 | fluffs | which is great |
| 22:45.57 | koen | fluffs: my girlfriend has me on a 'grades to toys' programs |
| 22:46.13 | koen | fluffs: I have to pass an exam each time I want to buy something :) |
| 22:46.23 | rodgers | just PASS? |
| 22:46.54 | kimuSan^ | ahh I want a program like that :-) |
| 22:47.38 | koen | well, of course stuff like the EFIKA and moko dev programs get a bit in the way :) |
| 22:47.55 | kimuSan^ | My girlfriend just thinks im mad every time I bring home some new gadgets. fortunately the company pays for most of them, else she probably like it a bit |
| 22:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin23 (n=Harlekin@p3E9E487C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:49.03 | loufoque | kimuSan^: offer me a neo1973 then |
| 22:49.10 | rodgers | anyone know of anyone inteh dev community who might be interested in developiung an AccesGrid client for OpenMoko? |
| 22:49.31 | rodgers | presuming that we can eventually get 802.11 put into a second gen. unit? |
| 22:50.37 | LaF0rge | rodgers: just ask on the community list |
| 22:50.51 | rodgers | ah good suggestion -- guess i can find that on the mail list web site |
| 22:50.55 | kimuSan^ | loufoque: pays them for me. not you :-) |
| 22:50.57 | LaF0rge | rodgers: we're betting on one supplier. if everything wokrs, phase2 can have it |
| 22:51.03 | fluffs | right, this may be the first post to openmoko-kernel |
| 22:51.25 | koen | LaF0rge: phase2 or v2? |
| 22:51.41 | parag0n | i wish there were some photos of a neo1973 in someones hand |
| 22:51.43 | kimuSan^ | loufoque: need to convince them tomorrow that I need a neo to play around with....maybe I should add a BC5FM to it such that we can get FM radio into it :-) |
| 22:51.45 | rodgers | so yur optimisitc about 802.11 then? |
| 22:51.48 | parag0n | so i can get some ideo of how big it is |
| 22:51.57 | SpeedEvil | parag0n: hands vary. |
| 22:51.58 | loufoque | kimuSan^: tell them you need two of those |
| 22:52.01 | Elrond | fluffs - I have the first post to -kernel ;o) |
| 22:52.04 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 22:52.09 | fluffs | Elrond: bah! humbug |
| 22:52.10 | SpeedEvil | Mobile phone companys seem to have a list of people with very large hands. |
| 22:52.18 | SpeedEvil | For modelling purposes. |
| 22:52.35 | rwhitby | morning |
| 22:52.35 | rodgers | a career id never thought of... |
| 22:52.37 | SpeedEvil | Print out the pictures at teh right scale. |
| 22:52.52 | SpeedEvil | laminate on a bit of 10mm plastercine or something. |
| 22:52.55 | parag0n | OK then, the great leveller, a coke can :P |
| 22:53.44 | parag0n | also, where the hell does the stylus fit |
| 22:54.02 | rodgers | what stylus???? lol |
| 22:54.04 | CoreDump|home | hi |
| 22:54.07 | fluffs | bah, posted from wrong account |
| 22:54.15 | fluffs | can someone approve my post to openmoko-kernel please |
| 22:54.46 | LaF0rge | mh, s3c2410_udc seems to sometimes loose RESET interrupts |
| 22:54.52 | SpeedEvil | parag0n: look at http://www.sizeasy.com/page/comp/153 |
| 22:54.55 | LaF0rge | fluffs: will do |
| 22:55.01 | SpeedEvil | compare it to whatever. |
| 22:55.59 | rodgers | very clever site SpeedEvil |
| 22:56.19 | rodgers | so the OpenMoko is quite a bit larger than the iPhone, Im surprised somehow |
| 22:56.28 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 22:56.36 | SpeedEvil | The shapes are rather different. |
| 22:56.52 | kimuSan^ | the iPhone is quite big for a mobile phone. |
| 22:56.53 | fluffs | LaF0rge: the drive was trying to report an error and going splat in an nasty way... you may need to tweak the platform data to fix the root cause |
| 22:56.58 | rodgers | true - but the iPhone calso cintains a camera... |
| 22:57.07 | rodgers | not compared to my Treop 650 lol |
| 22:57.09 | koen | COMPATIBLE_HOST = "arm.*-linux" |
| 22:57.09 | koen | COMPATIBLE_MACHINE = 'fic-gta01' |
| 22:57.38 | SpeedEvil | If the neo was 6mm shorter, it'd fit entirely inside a coke can. |
| 22:57.44 | koen | LaF0rge: could you remove that COMPATIBLE_HOST? It breaks eabi and is superfluous combined with COMPATIBLE_MACHINE |
| 22:57.50 | SpeedEvil | Which of course raises the question... |
| 22:57.56 | rodgers | but yur right SpeedEvil, the roudned ends of the OpenMoko make the enclosing box look larger than it really is... |
| 22:57.56 | kimuSan^ | rodgers: treo's are designed for mutants :-) |
| 22:58.10 | LaF0rge | koen: where is that? mickey is the OE guy ;) |
| 22:58.18 | koen | LaF0rge: in the kernel recipes |
| 22:58.22 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-212-120.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 22:58.29 | rodgers | i proudly proclaim myslef a mutant ;) |
| 22:58.37 | LaF0rge | koen: just unconditionally remove it ? |
| 22:58.39 | koen | mickeyl: why do all the moko howto's set BUILD_ARCH manually? |
| 22:58.42 | koen | LaF0rge: yes |
| 22:58.53 | mickeyl | because all buildhosts were using x86_64 |
| 22:58.54 | koen | LaF0rge: unless you has a MIPS neo1973 on your desk ;) |
| 22:58.55 | mickeyl | :D |
| 22:59.57 | rodgers | tho i remain a mutant who woudl like to get rid fo the stupid thumb-board |
| 23:00.51 | koen | mickeyl: could you replace 'arm-linux-<foo>' in the moko recipes with '${TARGET_PREFIX}<foo>'? |
| 23:00.58 | rodgers | gotta dash, bye all |
| 23:01.17 | mickeyl | koen: in kernel? |
| 23:01.37 | koen | mickeyl: the kernel needs arm-linux-objcopy -> ${OBJCOPY} |
| 23:02.47 | mickeyl | oh yes |
| 23:03.04 | koen | I'll fix it in OE tomorrow |
| 23:03.09 | mickeyl | thanks. I'll just sync. then |
| 23:03.17 | Elrond | fluffs - hihi: X-Disclaimer: I speak for me, myself, and the other one of me. |
| 23:06.19 | *** join/#openmoko mtm (i=mtm@nat/google/x-a87390666c41dd0d) |
| 23:07.05 | *** join/#openmoko phire (n=phire@125-238-96-112.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) |
| 23:07.10 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-178-212-120.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 23:07.30 | parag0n | does the neo have a stylus or not? i see lots of mentions of stylus only apps on the wiki |
| 23:08.01 | mickeyl | stylus yes, compartment, no |
| 23:08.28 | parag0n | hmm :/ |
| 23:08.37 | kimuSan^ | then you just need a thumb strap-on stylus |
| 23:08.38 | fluffs | right, fixed SMDK2440 display as well |
| 23:08.54 | Shoragan | mickeyl will phase2 have a compartment? |
| 23:09.06 | parag0n | or i could cultivate my thumb nail into a spike |
| 23:09.11 | mickeyl | i doubt that there will be case modifications |
| 23:09.23 | mickeyl | but don't quote me on that |
| 23:10.03 | Shoragan | otherwise i'll lose my stylus after 2 days ;) |
| 23:10.13 | kimuSan^ | are there any great ideas behind the bulky round look? or is it just the "to be different" factor? |
| 23:10.49 | mickeyl | *shrug* that's a question for the case designer |
| 23:11.05 | Stephmw | case designers are a little special... like case modders |
| 23:11.27 | mickeyl | some guys in .tw |
| 23:11.43 | kimuSan^ | mickeyl: ahh explains it :-) |
| 23:11.48 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 23:12.57 | koen | mickeyl: at what time do you become pingable tomorrow? |
| 23:13.28 | mickeyl | around 14 to 18 |
| 23:13.31 | mickeyl | CET |
| 23:13.49 | mickeyl | probably not earlier since I'm spending half of the day for thesis preparation |
| 23:13.56 | rep | mmh need some help here... i switched off my machine here yesterday - and now i wanted to resume the bitbaking - but bitbake complains about a missing cache... which directory should i set CACHE to? tmp/cache/fic-gta01 doesn't work... |
| 23:14.21 | koen | mickeyl: I'll be at the uni before lunch :) |
| 23:14.44 | mickeyl | oops :) |
| 23:15.13 | mickeyl | fluffs: yah, that's kind of odd isn't it? one would expect these kind of changes to be tested beforehand :/ |
| 23:15.44 | fluffs | ok, i'm not perfect, but i generally get it right |
| 23:15.53 | kimuSan^ | that how it normally goes with quickfixes :-) |
| 23:15.53 | fluffs | i'm suprised that bug hasn't been fixed earlier |
| 23:15.55 | koen | or fix it after finding out |
| 23:16.10 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 23:16.57 | alphaone | Yay! |
| 23:17.01 | kimuSan^ | nite all |
| 23:17.13 | alphaone | night |
| 23:17.20 | koen | 'night all |
| 23:18.27 | fluffs | hmm, 9 patches outstanding |
| 23:18.50 | greentux | mickeyl comes to fosdem as "dr. mickeyl" :) |
| 23:19.09 | mickeyl | :) |
| 23:19.11 | mickeyl | hopefully |
| 23:19.14 | mickeyl | if i pass the defense |
| 23:19.15 | mickeyl | ... |
| 23:19.35 | greentux | mickeyl: that would be good for the beer event... |
| 23:19.46 | mickeyl | no kidding. that will be just one day after the defense :D |
| 23:19.57 | mickeyl | i'm going to be blasted ;) |
| 23:20.05 | kimuSan^ | mickeyl: thesis is about what? |
| 23:20.08 | greentux | mickeyl: I now.... so you can clear your mem |
| 23:20.25 | mickeyl | kimuSan^: Component-based adaptive Middleware for mobile distributed systems |
| 23:20.26 | greentux | the defense is open I assume? :) |
| 23:20.31 | mickeyl | greentux: yeah |
| 23:20.32 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 23:20.54 | kimuSan^ | mickeyl: nice |
| 23:21.11 | mickeyl | indeed. took me 5 years |
| 23:21.18 | mickeyl | but it was fun time |
| 23:21.41 | mickeyl | 3 of them were probably spent w/ open source |
| 23:21.44 | mickeyl | but don't tell anyone |
| 23:21.45 | mickeyl | :D |
| 23:22.16 | kimuSan^ | heh |
| 23:22.35 | kimuSan^ | PhD or ? |
| 23:22.40 | mickeyl | yep |
| 23:22.42 | kimuSan^ | ok |
| 23:22.52 | mickeyl | actually I get |
| 23:22.56 | mickeyl | Dr. phil. nat. |
| 23:23.01 | mickeyl | but it's comparable |
| 23:27.37 | alphaone | mickeyl: Is there a way to let only one application use a different gtk theme? |
| 23:27.55 | mickeyl | heh, i can feel your pain |
| 23:27.58 | mickeyl | i'm afraid not |
| 23:28.03 | alphaone | okay |
| 23:28.07 | mickeyl | but i didn't look that hard to find a solution |
| 23:28.17 | mickeyl | our gtkrc looks odd on a lot of desktop programs :) |
| 23:28.35 | alphaone | I really do like the theme for my notebook, too |
| 23:28.52 | mickeyl | needs some fixes for the small pixmaps |
| 23:28.57 | mickeyl | but other than that it looks cool |
| 23:29.09 | alphaone | exactly |
| 23:29.24 | alphaone | So I'll have matching themes :-) |
| 23:29.48 | *** join/#openmoko etheisen (n=etheisen@user-11210ka.dsl.mindspring.com) |
| 23:29.59 | alphaone | yay :-) |
| 23:30.34 | alphaone | If you ignore the scrollbars sylpheed claws looks real slick now :-) |
| 23:30.58 | ag | so where can we get an openmoko phone? |
| 23:31.09 | SpeedEvil | ag: buy in a month |
| 23:31.14 | SpeedEvil | ag $350 |
| 23:31.25 | ag | excellent! ;) |
| 23:31.41 | SpeedEvil | It won't be finished by then. |
| 23:31.42 | sixfeet | worldwide ? |
| 23:31.45 | SpeedEvil | yes |
| 23:31.49 | sixfeet | n1 |
| 23:31.52 | SpeedEvil | It will be a sort-of-usable phone. |
| 23:32.00 | SpeedEvil | Anyone can purchasse it. |
| 23:32.09 | sixfeet | i would do german support if needed |
| 23:32.22 | SpeedEvil | Basic functionality will be there, but more may vary. |
| 23:32.34 | ag | SpeedEvil: and how long to wait to get the final version? |
| 23:32.42 | sixfeet | gps and touchscreen are my favs |
| 23:32.42 | SpeedEvil | September. |
| 23:32.56 | SpeedEvil | Though it won't really be 'final' in the usual phone sense. |
| 23:33.05 | SpeedEvil | As new apps and upgrades will carry on rolling. |
| 23:33.10 | rep | open-source is my fav ... |
| 23:33.16 | sixfeet | gg |
| 23:33.55 | SpeedEvil | The V2 hardware - which may be what ships in September may or may not have wifi/camera. The ones in a month won't. |
| 23:34.01 | sixfeet | there will be some rev. if the first series is sold |
| 23:34.18 | mickeyl | please don't confuse |
| 23:34.24 | mickeyl | v2 is _not_ what ships in September |
| 23:34.33 | *** join/#openmoko Imp3 (i=dennis@m0hr.de) |
| 23:34.45 | SpeedEvil | It's not - I misinterpreted something LaForge said earlier. |
| 23:34.47 | mickeyl | v2 is totally different hardware which will be _announced_ in September |
| 23:34.50 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 23:35.05 | SpeedEvil | not? that was of course. |
| 23:35.10 | SpeedEvil | Thanks. |
| 23:35.19 | sixfeet | other design too? |
| 23:35.29 | SpeedEvil | A new version, with more goodies. |
| 23:35.34 | parag0n | even though some apps will need a stylus, i hope the basic phone apps dont... making a phonecall, sending a text message... |
| 23:35.35 | SpeedEvil | Which may or may not include camera/wifi. |
| 23:36.29 | SpeedEvil | parag0n: there are many input methods. Some will work with fingers. |
| 23:36.42 | SpeedEvil | Some may be faster or more accurate with a stylus. |
| 23:36.49 | ag | SpeedEvil: i suppose v2 will get 3G HDSPA, won't it? |
| 23:36.56 | SpeedEvil | Well... |
| 23:37.02 | SpeedEvil | I don't want HDSPA. |
| 23:37.09 | SpeedEvil | As it would be utterly wasted for me. |
| 23:37.13 | SpeedEvil | I'd want UTMS. |
| 23:37.21 | mickeyl | 3G. |
| 23:37.24 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 23:37.25 | mickeyl | no details known |
| 23:37.28 | sixfeet | gsm |
| 23:37.57 | SpeedEvil | GSM is the current phone - which is essentially worldwide, apart from some areas in the US. |
| 23:38.12 | mjr | well, that and japan |
| 23:38.42 | mjr | but yeah, gsm covers a lot of the world so smart move for the first ed |
| 23:38.59 | sixfeet | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:39.03 | mjr | (one would expect nothing less) |
| 23:39.22 | SpeedEvil | As I understand it for faster than GSM, it gets complex. There isn't a worldwide standard. And the USA goes on its own. |
| 23:39.28 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 23:39.39 | mjr | SpeedEvil, yeah, that's a shame |
| 23:39.43 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention there are some nasty license conditions. |
| 23:40.24 | SpeedEvil | It may be that in 6 months time, chipsets will have moved on. |
| 23:40.24 | SpeedEvil | s/chipsets/modules/ |
| 23:41.02 | fluffs | right, time for me to go and get some sleep |
| 23:41.06 | mickeyl | i'm pretty sure it will feature umts |
| 23:41.09 | mickeyl | g'night ben |
| 23:41.14 | SpeedEvil | Night. |
| 23:42.52 | fluffs | goodnight people |
| 23:43.47 | mjr | mickeyl, good for us europeans if so; is that used in asia where fic lives (you know, aside from Japan)? |
| 23:43.57 | stefan_schmidt | night fluffs |
| 23:44.01 | mickeyl | hmm umts in asia? |
| 23:44.04 | mickeyl | no idea offhand |
| 23:44.06 | rwhitby | yes |
| 23:44.28 | rwhitby | Singapore and Hong Kong at least, I've experienced personally. |
| 23:44.35 | rwhitby | Australia too :-) |
| 23:44.42 | cbpage | :) |
| 23:45.54 | rwhitby | seemant: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High-Speed_Uplink_Packet_Access |
| 23:45.56 | cbpage | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2657814070.html |
| 23:46.04 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 23:46.08 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag-_ (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 23:46.16 | rwhitby | oops. sorry seemant, completion got me. |
| 23:46.48 | Psi_ | <PROTECTED> |
| 23:47.43 | mjr | I checked, and apparently not |
| 23:47.48 | rep | umts |
| 23:48.15 | SpeedEvil | Please assume that any acronyms from me may swap any adjacent letters. |
| 23:48.18 | rep | Psi_: it's UMTS... |
| 23:48.20 | rep | :) |
| 23:48.22 | rwhitby | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Universal_Mobile_Telecommunications_System |
| 23:48.24 | stefan_schmidt | night all |
| 23:49.17 | mickeyl | n8 stefan_schmidt |
| 23:49.28 | *** part/#openmoko phire (n=phire@125-238-96-112.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz) |
| 23:53.25 | alphaone | night |
