| 00:01.32 | SpeedEvil | What are the magic words I can see on a box that'll bridge bluetooth and IP for the neo? |
| 00:02.32 | *** join/#openmoko Sum1 (n=Sum1@80.175.142.81) |
| 00:04.21 | SuN | BNEP! |
| 00:07.28 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: NSLU2 ;-) |
| 00:13.32 | *** join/#openmoko Mortimus (n=mortimus@pool-71-250-95-89.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:13.36 | *** part/#openmoko Mortimus (n=mortimus@pool-71-250-95-89.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:16.43 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. 30% more in UK on ebay |
| 00:21.10 | *** join/#openmoko mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 00:21.12 | *** part/#openmoko mindjuju (n=mindjuju@65-121-75-195.dia.static.qwest.net) |
| 00:21.27 | *** join/#openmoko jannu (n=jannu@hoas-fe34dd00-216.dhcp.inet.fi) |
| 00:40.54 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 00:49.22 | greghunt | SpeedEvil surely you can use *nix + a bluetooth dongle? |
| 00:53.39 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 00:53.51 | SpeedEvil | I was wondering if there was a cheap dedicated box solution. |
| 00:54.02 | SpeedEvil | Cheap/small |
| 00:54.07 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 00:54.48 | SpeedEvil | As I need at least 3 nodes for my house. |
| 00:55.11 | SpeedEvil | And strings of powered USB hubs get rather silly after a while. |
| 00:55.27 | SuN | You mean something like an access point? |
| 00:55.33 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 00:55.46 | CoreDump|afk | <rwhitby> SpeedEvil: NSLU2 ;-) |
| 00:55.50 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 00:55.50 | CoreDump|afk | ;) |
| 00:56.00 | SpeedEvil | They are annoyingly more expensive in the UK than US. |
| 00:56.05 | SpeedEvil | 30% on ebay. |
| 00:56.06 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 00:56.30 | SpeedEvil | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&ih=001&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&viewitem=&item=110090437610&rd=1&rd=1 |
| 00:56.34 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 00:56.50 | rwhitby | funny looking NSLU2 .... |
| 00:57.32 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - I'm also doing house renovations. |
| 01:00.26 | rwhitby | CoreDump|afk: I use NSLU2 + USBBT100 dongle for Treo650 BT access point at home and at work. |
| 01:00.42 | CoreDump|afk | interesting! |
| 01:00.54 | rwhitby | (via dund and ppp right now, but will be via pand when I get a Neo) |
| 01:00.58 | CoreDump|afk | but the dongle eats up one possible HDD slot right? |
| 01:01.14 | rwhitby | you can use a hub if you need more than two slots |
| 01:01.42 | CoreDump|afk | interesting indeed |
| 01:01.42 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 01:02.15 | rwhitby | CoreDump|afk: I'm building "MokoSlug" firmware specifically designed to be the server companion for the Neo., |
| 01:02.25 | rwhitby | (it's a cut-down Angstrom port) |
| 01:02.35 | CoreDump|afk | =D |
| 01:02.38 | rwhitby | we're also trying to get OpenWRT running on the NSLU2. |
| 01:02.45 | SpeedEvil | Well - the easy way to get a girls attention without any risk of embarrasment is chloroform. |
| 01:02.46 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 01:03.03 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 01:03.17 | CoreDump|afk | rwhitby: umm what would be the point of *-wrt on the slug? *scratches head`* |
| 01:03.19 | rwhitby | Hmm - bathtub, cholorform. I wonder if SpeedEvil is a serial killer ... |
| 01:03.46 | SpeedEvil | I was trying to point out that there are no easy embarrasment free ways to ask girls out... |
| 01:03.50 | nbd | CoreDump|afk: small portable firmware that allows you to run a lot of stuff directly from flash |
| 01:03.51 | SpeedEvil | (to someone else) |
| 01:04.02 | rwhitby | CoreDump|afk: put a bluetooth dongle in one port, and a wifi dongle in the other. Use OpenWRT to bridge and route. |
| 01:04.42 | rwhitby | (it also makes more sense on slug-like devices like the Iomega NAS100d or the D-Link DSM-G600 or the Freecom FSG-3) |
| 01:05.17 | CoreDump|afk | bleh damn you rwhitby. I'm feeling that typical itch raise which usually only ends after spending money for shiny new hardware |
| 01:05.21 | SpeedEvil | I wonder when someone is going to come up with a 'pure' linux box cheap. |
| 01:05.29 | SpeedEvil | 5V powered hub-like. |
| 01:05.44 | SpeedEvil | But with a tiny linux box inside. |
| 01:10.50 | SpeedEvil | 1" OLED desplay on top. |
| 01:16.56 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@189.12.105.226) |
| 01:19.29 | CoreDump|afk | !praise mickeyl |
| 01:22.37 | SuN | What he do? |
| 01:22.47 | rwhitby | heh |
| 01:23.06 | thedaniel | does the bot just listen to CoreDump|afk i wonder |
| 01:23.10 | CoreDump|afk | he kinda made the day for some of us ;) |
| 01:23.12 | thedaniel | !praise thedaniel |
| 01:23.14 | thedaniel | yesss |
| 01:23.23 | rwhitby | he's the openmoko chief software platform architect dude, and an all round good guy |
| 01:23.36 | SuN | !praise the lord |
| 01:24.08 | SuN | !praise no one, eats a banana |
| 01:24.20 | SuN | Nice! |
| 01:24.25 | thedaniel | !welcome someone |
| 01:24.28 | thedaniel | hrm |
| 01:24.50 | thedaniel | what kind of bot do we have here i wonder - hand-rolled or one of the more popular ones |
| 01:25.24 | CoreDump|afk | there are several IIRC |
| 01:25.24 | SuN | -cdbot2- VERSION eggdrop v1.6.17 |
| 01:27.38 | thedaniel | !seen thedaniel |
| 01:27.41 | cdbot2 | thedaniel, go look in a mirror. |
| 01:27.44 | thedaniel | lol |
| 01:27.49 | thedaniel | !seen alp |
| 01:27.51 | cdbot2 | thedaniel, alp is right here! |
| 01:27.56 | thedaniel | !seen Tv |
| 01:27.59 | cdbot2 | thedaniel, Tv is right here! |
| 01:28.05 | Tv | thedaniel: dood |
| 01:28.05 | thedaniel | ok i will stop spamming the channel now |
| 01:28.40 | thedaniel | ... i have a thing for bots |
| 01:28.44 | CoreDump|afk | thedaniel: you can play w/ him in private messages |
| 01:28.56 | Tv | thedaniel: I think there's a latin word for that. |
| 02:22.49 | Zer0HiT | unidling, so still no update? |
| 02:24.02 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=lofoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 02:34.29 | AcidBurn1 | Hey Hey |
| 02:34.34 | AcidBurn1 | Is it finally live? |
| 02:35.03 | cbpage | couple more days iirc |
| 02:38.43 | AcidBurn1 | ah |
| 02:38.58 | AcidBurn1 | what put them behind? |
| 02:40.40 | gabaug | AcidBurn1: see the lists/planet |
| 02:40.52 | Agrajag- | spending too much time answering stupid questions that could've been found easily using "the internet" |
| 02:45.19 | AcidBurn1 | lol |
| 02:45.46 | AcidBurn1 | Can we get a demo of it? |
| 02:48.16 | rwhitby | a demo of "the internet"? sure ;-) |
| 02:59.56 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=chatzill@c-67-188-65-30.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:02.49 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1177563819.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 03:03.36 | dougt | has anyone gotten stuck building linux-libc-headers-2.6.18-r1? looks like the patch isn't applied properly (Applying patch arm-syscall-define.patch) |
| 03:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko NatureTM (n=theking@CPE-70-94-38-157.wi.res.rr.com) |
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| 03:14.59 | *** part/#openmoko jeeves_bond (n=liam@CPE000f3d6588eb-CM0013711402c2.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
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| 03:32.36 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. A consequence of the insulation work (foil backed plasterboard) I'm doing will be that I'll have no mobile reception in the house at all. |
| 03:32.59 | SpeedEvil | If only there was a cheap GSM repeater. |
| 03:36.50 | greghunt | can't it get through foil? |
| 03:37.11 | greghunt | put soem microwave sized holes in it |
| 03:43.41 | DukeOfURL | I don't know if it's available in the UK, but I just got a Hawkins WiFi repeater for the upstairs. |
| 03:43.50 | DukeOfURL | about 80USD |
| 03:44.06 | DukeOfURL | You tell it which SSID to repeat |
| 03:44.12 | DukeOfURL | works pretty good. |
| 03:44.45 | DukeOfURL | I still have to fiddle my WinXP system for about 20min every time I power it up. Just to get it to connect. |
| 03:44.53 | DukeOfURL | POS |
| 03:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko pingu (i=pingu@gentoo/developer/pingu) |
| 03:54.32 | *** part/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
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| 05:16.44 | dougt | has anyone gotten stuck building linux-libc-headers-2.6.18-r1? looks like the patch isn't applied properly (Applying patch arm-syscall-define.patch) |
| 05:17.39 | *** part/#openmoko dougt (n=chatzill@c-67-188-65-30.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
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| 06:20.15 | rwhitby | http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/smartphones/first-shot-toshiba-g900-smartphone-235658.php |
| 06:24.38 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 06:24.52 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 06:26.32 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@netblock-68-183-179-95.dslextreme.com) |
| 06:36.20 | CM | rwhitby: That's a nice phone :) |
| 06:38.12 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__147 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-2f71db4b83cfb38b) |
| 06:39.39 | aloril | it seems new phones fro Nokia will be GPRS class A, N90 being one: http://europe.nokia.com/A4346043 |
| 06:39.45 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@adsl-75-57-24-111.dsl.irvnca.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:39.59 | *** join/#openmoko dirakx (n=dirakx@Dynamic-IP-cr20011897213.cable.net.co) |
| 06:40.33 | aloril | I guess it has less dpi than Neo1973 though and of course its missing most important feature: source |
| 06:40.50 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 06:41.45 | aloril | still.. I was waiting for new communicator 0.5 year ago, but not interested anymore that Neo1973 will be there (and even less than 0.5x of price ;-) ) |
| 06:50.29 | aloril | not seen this here yet, I guess most have seen it at http://planet.openmoko.org/ about 7 months in this project: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/02/12#20070212-moko_delay |
| 06:57.09 | CM | aloril: Heh, just read it but through kernelplanet :) |
| 07:00.49 | rwhitby | I wish kerneplanet contributors used categories. |
| 07:01.28 | rwhitby | e.g. the second entry on there right now simply shouldn't be there. |
| 07:01.39 | CM | rwhitby: True, and that guy talking about dwarves never stop |
| 07:02.25 | CM | But the problem there is that I just don't get it.. ;) |
| 07:15.23 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@147.87.255.14) |
| 07:16.54 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
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| 07:21.29 | aloril | counter |
| 07:21.29 | aloril | source: 2 days 04:38:30 (2.193 days); P0: 16.193; P1: 47.193; P2: 230.193 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (289) |
| 07:21.46 | aloril | lower limit is probably about 19h (time Sean lands at NY) |
| 07:22.28 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 07:22.41 | *** join/#openmoko veroli (n=oliver@BSN-95-206-165.dsl.siol.net) |
| 07:23.12 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 07:26.44 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@thbh-ip-vsat-2-p254.vsat.telkom-ipnet.co.za) |
| 07:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 07:30.16 | buz | so someone actually makes a dual sim phone http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadgetmobile/~3/89994741/ |
| 07:40.05 | aloril | hmm... would dual radios allow 2x speed with suitable software? (or would radios that close interfere with each other too much) |
| 07:45.40 | *** join/#openmoko i386 (n=james@202.124.89.132) |
| 07:51.25 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@thbh-ip-vsat-2-p254.vsat.telkom-ipnet.co.za) |
| 07:53.20 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@rikers.org) |
| 07:55.59 | raynet | aloril: possibly when using two different operators atleast (as they would be using different frequencies) |
| 07:57.55 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-124-175-56.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 08:01.41 | koen | you'll be using different frequencies everytime you make a call |
| 08:01.51 | koen | the cell tower allocates a small band for each handset |
| 08:02.13 | aloril | for those looking at Java ME on OpenMoko, seems at least one person from Sun is/will be involved: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003245.html |
| 08:02.47 | koen | aloril: that person has been saying that for months, and we still have seen *nothing* |
| 08:03.04 | koen | "hollow barrels sound the loudest" |
| 08:03.28 | aloril | koen: OK ;-) |
| 08:08.29 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@c-24-23-175-209.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 08:09.05 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@194.152.122.177) |
| 08:09.20 | aloril | even more when actual hardware is available (-"-) |
| 08:11.25 | aloril | seems to be popular, Nokia and Apple both use it AFAIC |
| 08:11.35 | koen | and kde |
| 08:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 08:13.38 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-249-244.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 08:14.06 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 08:14.56 | buz | actually webkit and khtml aren't entirely the same |
| 08:16.44 | koen | apple's Safari browser is using webkit as well |
| 08:17.06 | buz | awful browser though |
| 08:17.28 | koen | it's pretty neat, as long as you don't add too many rss feeds |
| 08:18.04 | buz | feels jsut like osx to me. too dumb. |
| 08:21.39 | aloril | hmm.. Neo1973 being in mass storage mode (for easy access by windows machines) is problematic: I guess needs to present virtual drive or something .. (mass storage being block level access thing) |
| 08:21.53 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485F384.dip.t-dialin.net) |
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| 08:24.51 | aloril | s/window machines/anything supporting USB mass storage/ |
| 08:25.04 | aloril | s/windows machines/anything supporting USB mass storage/ |
| 08:26.57 | xkr47 | you could just have seded that sed thing, maybe .) |
| 08:27.28 | aloril | xkr47: hehe, yeah |
| 08:28.05 | aloril | anyway, reason I mentioned windows machines is "really easy way to change ringtone/background/etc.." ie.. "just" marketing thing |
| 08:28.19 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin (n=Harlekin@p3E9E2F05.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 08:29.10 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 08:31.01 | aloril | "There was an original plan by FIC (not OpenMoko) to also sell the sameGTA01* hardware with Windows CE. That plan seems currently on halt" http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-February/003277.html |
| 08:33.27 | xkr47 | aloril, oh.. |
| 08:33.36 | hrw | morning |
| 08:34.11 | xkr47 | morning |
| 08:34.14 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 08:35.23 | hrw | xkr47: scrambled eggs with bakon please |
| 08:36.22 | aloril | xkr47: that "really easy to change ringtone/background/etc.." is not any official thing, just idea I though (and has been said in one way or another in ML lists too) |
| 08:36.52 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 08:36.54 | aloril | (based on that that you can change those in many existing phones too, but most people still buy them because that is easier) |
| 08:38.49 | xkr47 | hrw, certainly :) |
| 08:39.09 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 08:39.46 | xkr47 | hehe, will there be a music composer included in the phone.. if not, that's one project that someone could take on :) |
| 08:43.23 | aloril | just quick google, but wonder if any of these is already in OE or easy to modify so works well on small screen: http://www.icewalkers.com/Linux/Software/Multimedia/Audio/Music-Composers/1550/ |
| 08:43.39 | aloril | maybe overkill ;-) |
| 08:44.09 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 08:44.49 | xkr47 | or finger, whatever |
| 08:45.04 | xkr47 | drag up & down in realtime to generate higher & lower tones :) |
| 08:46.43 | aloril | or USB-midi dongle and use real keyboard |
| 08:47.01 | xkr47 | broadcast music live over gprs ;) |
| 08:47.29 | aloril | hehe, using midi should be plenty of bandwidth |
| 08:48.09 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
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| 08:57.09 | hrw | http://www.theunwired.net/?itemid=3614 |
| 08:57.17 | hrw | I want one of those with linux :D |
| 08:59.06 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 09:00.27 | xkr47 | hrw, openmoko! |
| 09:04.11 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 09:04.21 | mikesh | it have Intel Bulverde 520MHz |
| 09:04.34 | mikesh | my home server have 400mhz cpu :O |
| 09:04.37 | mikesh | its crazy |
| 09:04.51 | Harlekin | Mhz != computing power |
| 09:04.58 | mikesh | i know |
| 09:06.50 | buz | i like the toshiba g900 better |
| 09:07.01 | buz | but the clamshell qwerty looks nifty too |
| 09:07.32 | buz | especially the XGA out |
| 09:09.17 | *** join/#openmoko _-InFeRnO-_ (n=KeKeKe@cable-84-43-138-4.mnet.bg) |
| 09:09.39 | _-InFeRnO-_ | _still_ no src? |
| 09:10.04 | hads | Patience is a virue |
| 09:10.18 | koen | counter |
| 09:10.18 | aloril | source: 2 days 02:49:41 (2.118 days); P0: 16.118; P1: 47.118; P2: 230.118 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (290) |
| 09:10.51 | aloril | _-InFeRnO-_: nope, still about 17 hours before Sean lands at NY so that is probably lower limit |
| 09:11.17 | _-InFeRnO-_ | thx |
| 09:14.54 | xkr47 | distcc for openmoko ;) |
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| 09:17.12 | aloril | that P0 date: lower limit for that is about -4 days (when Chinese New Year week long holiday ends?) |
| 09:17.40 | aloril | P1 I guess could be even almost -2 weeks |
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| 09:40.44 | buz | i wonder who makes those imate phones |
| 09:41.54 | buz | and more importantly, if that party could be convinced to release a few specs... |
| 09:42.44 | koen | buz: HTC |
| 09:42.50 | buz | i doubt it |
| 09:42.57 | buz | all new imate models werent htc |
| 09:43.10 | buz | many were inventec and one techfaith |
| 09:44.14 | buz | if it's really htc, we will see it in 2 days from 4 brands |
| 09:45.20 | Harlekin | "brands" |
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| 10:09.54 | buz | seems to me like the issue would be the very same in just about any company that wasnt open source before? |
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| 10:10.42 | jannu | yep. especially communication is piss-poor in most companies |
| 10:11.33 | koen | http://www.freelists.org/archives/linux-cirrus/02-2007/msg00026.html is interesting as well |
| 10:11.43 | jannu | most companies still think that e-mail and outlook are the holy grails |
| 10:11.51 | koen | especially how Cirrus Logic responds to having their baords supported in mainline |
| 10:14.01 | fluffs | koen: you've noticed that too? |
| 10:14.34 | koen | fluffs: yeah, I have eo93xx board on my desk right now |
| 10:14.45 | koen | ep93xx* |
| 10:14.59 | koen | heh |
| 10:15.05 | koen | iirc I have E0 or E1 |
| 10:15.05 | fluffs | i think i have the errata somewhere... |
| 10:15.19 | fluffs | it is doing a good job of ballasting a bookcase |
| 10:15.24 | koen | the trick with the LED rc network was ingenious |
| 10:16.45 | koen | fluffs: I heard samsung is a bit better with regard to FLOSS nowadays |
| 10:17.14 | fluffs | a lot better |
| 10:17.25 | fluffs | altohugh their code output is still poor, they at least give me freebies |
| 10:17.38 | fluffs | my SMDK2443 arrived yesterday |
| 10:21.19 | rwhitby | hmm - I should try and get linksys to send me a nas200... |
| 10:21.49 | buz | are those shipping now |
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| 10:22.15 | rwhitby | I figure with over 50,000 nslu2-linux firmware downloads, and 10,000 people on the mailing lists, we must have increased their nslu2 revenue somewhat ... |
| 10:22.38 | rwhitby | buz: not that I've seen yet |
| 10:22.45 | buz | uhm cirrus seems borderline stupid |
| 10:22.54 | buz | why do something yourself that others would do for free? |
| 10:23.03 | CM | buz: Don't get it either |
| 10:23.15 | fluffs | it could be either a face saving thing, or the `not invented here` mentaility |
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| 10:23.42 | buz | maybe one should start accumulating shares in such companies and sue their management |
| 10:23.48 | buz | for obviously wasting money |
| 10:24.38 | fluffs | the trouble is that most of these chip vendors are used to people lapping up poor quality code (cf WinCE BSPs, etc) and just being able to do what they like... the linux kernel contrains a number of things including `not being stupid` and coding style |
| 10:24.40 | jannu | probably some non-dev in the company commented that lennert's code worked better than theirs |
| 10:24.53 | CM | It't not rational thinking in any way. Seems like they see it as competition instead of help |
| 10:24.57 | buz | fluffs: well yes |
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| 10:25.08 | buz | but if someone actually had code that would make it into mainline |
| 10:25.15 | fluffs | tho i seem to have become a patch junkie |
| 10:25.16 | buz | plus the offer for free driver development recently |
| 10:26.52 | jannu | could simply be that they have a couple of coders whose only job is to work on linux drivers |
| 10:27.26 | koen | jannu: they have a team in bulgaria and china to do kernel work and to work on gcc |
| 10:27.49 | koen | they don't want to fire those people, even if they produce shit |
| 10:28.03 | jannu | koen: that's what i was thinking |
| 10:28.36 | jannu | and now after this, they can just tell upper management that the kernel devs were impossible to work with |
| 10:31.18 | buz | rwhitby: do you know any details about nas200 specs? |
| 10:38.39 | buz | sim from hell http://go.theregister.com/feed/http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/02/13/orange_super_sim/ |
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| 10:45.29 | Stephmw | urgh. |
| 10:45.39 | aloril | Morgaine: I'm thinking a bit you with following, though I must admit that I was hurry and skimmed to fast trough trademark discussion a bit back |
| 10:45.45 | Stephmw | welcome to data-loaded sim cards... |
| 10:45.57 | Stephmw | buz: only sure way to wipe it will be to destroy it |
| 10:46.09 | koen | Stephmw: openmoko simcard |
| 10:46.22 | koen | "insert to free your phone" |
| 10:46.58 | aloril | trademarks, copyrights and patents: in FOSS only world copyrights and patents are somewhat irrelevant |
| 10:47.10 | aloril | however, trademarks will still be very relevant |
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| 10:47.30 | Stephmw | agreed |
| 10:48.12 | aloril | example: imagine somebody hacking into Linus Torvalds machine and then releasing new kernel in his name |
| 10:48.14 | koen | Stephmw: as an embedded professional, what would you like to see (or hear) in a presentation about OE? |
| 10:48.47 | aloril | you can't really copy trademarks without devaluing them, they are like money |
| 10:49.13 | aloril | however, value of idea (patents) and value of code (copyright) most of time increases more it is used |
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| 10:51.32 | Stephmw | koen: tool support and integration is key for me |
| 10:52.15 | aloril | I guess there is case were "author trademark" could mutate: is principal author becomes old and senile, then core team/person stepping in his/her shoes kind of inherits 'trademark' |
| 10:52.29 | Stephmw | koen: utilities to streamline development (fetch, build, package, run, debug, profile, repeat) |
| 10:53.17 | hrw | koen: collecting subjects for elc? |
| 10:53.36 | Stephmw | koen: I'd risk blasphemy and also suggest Cygwin being a supported target |
| 10:53.51 | koen | hrw: elc and bossa |
| 10:54.10 | koen | Stephmw: someone has cywin working as host and target |
| 10:54.18 | koen | time to get those patches in :) |
| 10:54.22 | Stephmw | aye |
| 10:54.36 | koen | kergoth had arm-wince-pe working a few years ago |
| 10:55.20 | Stephmw | oh, one more thing, but I don't really think it's OE-specific |
| 10:55.59 | Stephmw | ... parallel building, but not necessarily with distcc/ccache |
| 10:56.08 | Stephmw | we use pvmgmake here for instance |
| 10:56.32 | koen | OE supports both ccache and icecream |
| 10:57.57 | Harlekin | hehe |
| 10:58.31 | Morgaine | 'Mornin |
| 10:58.49 | Morgaine | Guys, a Phase 0 dev told me last night that that 7% yield problem and consequent 3-week delay actually referred to the ***PHASE 0*** phone batch, not Phase 1. Was his interpretation correct? And if so, why did Sean leave the announcement of the delay right up until yesterday, if he knew there would be a Phase 0 delay? Makes no sense to me. |
| 10:59.24 | koen | that's how I read it |
| 10:59.48 | koen | if it applied to p1 I would have had a UPS tracking number by now |
| 10:59.52 | CM | koen: gtk-theme-torturer doesn't work? |
| 11:00.06 | aloril | read it that way too, also maybe Sean was hoping until last moment to get it done before Chinese New Year .. |
| 11:00.07 | koen | CM: no, that stops after painting one widget |
| 11:00.15 | CM | Crappy |
| 11:00.28 | koen | right |
| 11:00.39 | Morgaine | I'd read the announcement as meaning a 3-week delay in the Phase 1 batch, so that there was no need to notify us about the delay yet. That's pretty non-open with the community, keeping expectation up when it was clear that even the current Phase was way off. |
| 11:00.39 | koen | timetext.c is cool, but doesn't test pixops |
| 11:01.13 | koen | Morgaine: there's a 3 week delay in the p0 batch |
| 11:01.41 | aloril | counter? |
| 11:01.41 | aloril | (actual release might happen earlier): 2 days 00:58:19 (2.040 days) for source for *all* developers (2007-02-14); 2 weeks, 2 days (16.040 days) for devices for selected developers (2007-02-28); a month, 2 weeks, 2 days (47.040 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-31); 7 months, 2 weeks, 2 days (230.040 days) for mass market (2007-09-30): see topic for more info (291) |
| 11:01.43 | Morgaine | koen: OK, thanks for confirmation. So my Phase 0 dev's info was correct. |
| 11:02.03 | koen | <- phase 0 dev |
| 11:02.31 | koen | there could be a delay in the p1 batch as well, but I don't know about that |
| 11:03.03 | aloril | those are upper limits, my guess about lower limits: source: 15 hours, P0: -4 days, P1: -2 weeks |
| 11:03.20 | aloril | well.. mail said late march for P1 |
| 11:03.27 | Morgaine | koen: indeed, but since the deadline for Phase 1 was more than 3 weeks away, there was no urgent reason to notify a 3-week delay in it. Not so for Phase 0 ... the delay should have been announced some time back. |
| 11:03.49 | mjr | mm, nice, a sun.com guy who "personally" intends to do something to java me support |
| 11:03.56 | koen | "Regarding our Neo1973 hardware, we will send out the first batch of |
| 11:03.56 | koen | phase 0 phones out around the end of this month. Sorry for not being |
| 11:03.57 | koen | able to give an absolute date. Next week is Chinese New Year (we're in |
| 11:03.57 | koen | Asia remember) and _everyone_ stops working for a full week. Having our |
| 11:03.57 | koen | newly designed FPC built before is really wishful thinking. |
| 11:03.57 | koen | All interested developers can purchase Neos starting late March. Please |
| 11:03.59 | koen | understand that phase 0 is a system of "checks and balances," so it |
| 11:04.01 | koen | simply cannot be rushed." |
| 11:04.04 | mjr | ah, aloril already mentioned that :) |
| 11:05.46 | Morgaine | koen: yeah, I didn't catch the "phase 0" in that when I read it. Probably because it "didn't compute" for me that we hadn't been notified of the delay right up until the date. |
| 11:06.22 | Morgaine | I keep forgetting that, despite the nice words, there's a company underneath this thing after all. |
| 11:07.35 | koen | 2 companies |
| 11:07.38 | koen | FIC and openmoko |
| 11:07.42 | Morgaine | True ;-) |
| 11:08.11 | aloril | Morgaine: you seen this yet?: http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/02/12#20070212-moko_delay |
| 11:08.39 | Morgaine | No, hadn't seen that. Thanks, reading. |
| 11:09.22 | koen | see planet.openmoko.org :) |
| 11:10.26 | Morgaine | Ew, poor Harold. They're sure getting their money's worth. |
| 11:10.35 | Morgaine | Harald* |
| 11:10.56 | koen | http://rejon.org/2007/02/13/the-best-book-on-open-source-software-development-needs-translation is interesting as well |
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| 11:21.26 | hrw | koen: one thing which you can add to elc/bassa: OE & external toolchains |
| 11:21.28 | Morgaine | aloril: just finished Harald's post, thanks. A very mature article, and makes many very good points. I guess what it's really saying is that changing a corporate culture to "think FOSS" takes time, and even though it's their stated goal, they're not there yet. It takes time. |
| 11:22.22 | koen | hrw: I have an item called "vender provided toolchains" |
| 11:22.30 | hrw | koen: good |
| 11:23.17 | aloril | Morgaine: yeah (btw. did you read my trademark comment 0.5h ago?) |
| 11:25.00 | Morgaine | aloril: yes I did, and I know what you're saying and I see the reasons for it. But it's not actually the only way to tackle such issues. I'll think about it a bit more, and respond. |
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| 11:33.15 | aloril | Morgaine: maybe in SL4 world trademark will have similar fate as copyright and patents in our world ;-) |
| 11:33.53 | aloril | (or maybe even SL3: several duplicates of minds) |
| 11:34.15 | aloril | above is pretty raw and quick idea ;-) |
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| 11:36.00 | Morgaine | aloril: We can simplify your scenario and still keep your point valid: replace "hacking into Linus's box" by simply acquiring the Linux kernel downstream, calling it something diifferent, and not distinguishing local changes from Linus et al's. Same issue, right? (I'm trying to remove the unauthorized entry to Linus's box from discussion, since that's not about "I.P.".) |
| 11:37.55 | aloril | Morgaine: you mean basically saying Linus did changes that person locally did, yes same idea |
| 11:38.37 | aloril | Morgaine: in this case easier to see that happened though by comparing to official one ;-) |
| 11:39.04 | Morgaine | aloril: hehe, well there's no harm in being hopeful for the future, but I've been around too long to be hopeful of fixing the world rapidly ;-)) But yes, I very much encourage young idealists to try, it's a very worthy goal ;-) |
| 11:40.14 | Morgaine | aloril: cool, I'll respond to that simpler idea in a bit then. Linus's box wasn't required for the discussion. |
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| 11:59.59 | aloril | counter |
| 11:59.59 | aloril | source: 2 days 00:00:00 (2.000 days); P0: 16.000; P1: 47.000; P2: 230.000 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (292) |
| 12:00.31 | CM | The X7500 sure looks pretty: http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2007/02/13/htc_rolls_out_h1_07_lineup/ |
| 12:07.11 | madwoota | heh, counter is a bit shorter now |
| 12:08.06 | CM | counter |
| 12:08.06 | aloril | source: a day 23:51:53 (1.994 days); P0: 15.994; P1: 46.994; P2: 229.994 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (293) |
| 12:08.33 | CM | Heh, just had to make sure it wasn't stuck at 2 days.. ;) |
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| 12:09.50 | aloril | ;-) |
| 12:12.25 | jannu | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/07/02/reg_testdrives_myorigo_motion_control/ |
| 12:13.28 | buz | CM: thats not a phone, thats a small notebook |
| 12:14.30 | jannu | and http://www.mobileburn.com/review.jsp?Page=1&Id=547 |
| 12:18.10 | buz | sounds not very useful to me |
| 12:18.14 | buz | and the 320*176 display is rather ancient |
| 12:18.38 | jannu | yes, but then again it was designed 4 years ago |
| 12:19.27 | buz | so its vaporware |
| 12:19.40 | buz | i thought it was a new design |
| 12:19.48 | jannu | no, you can actually get one on eBay or somesuch |
| 12:20.15 | Morgaine | aloril: I've got a few lines on that subject: |
| 12:20.22 | Morgaine | aloril: I see issues of trademark (and the other 3 kinds of "I.P." too / but hate that label) as being entirely different in their usefulness *within* the FOSS community versus their usefulness *against* the rest of the world. Those two things are not actually coupled in a strong way, ie. they refer to the same subject matter but don't interact. |
| 12:20.32 | Morgaine | aloril: First of all, let's eliminate the non-trademark scenario: an anti-social upstart could quite validly acquire Linux source, add unspecified changes, rename Linux as MyCoolKernel, and as long as he provided all sources, he would still be both GPL-compliant and open-source by the OSDL definition. And trademark wouldn't come into it. So far, no issues. |
| 12:20.39 | jannu | buz: it was on sale for a year or two, but didn't really succeed that well |
| 12:20.43 | Morgaine | aloril: But now let's have this same guy make some very large and fundamental non-Linuxy changes (ones that 100% of LKML would reject, for the sake of argument), and still retain the "Linux" name, and still release all his sources. So, we have no issues of GPL compliance, but just one single issue of trademark infringement. |
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| 12:20.54 | Morgaine | aloril: Now this is what I am debating: in these circumstances, what is gained by the FOSS community by bringing lawyers into the equation to stop the name clash? It's my belief that almost nothing is gained. No distro will use his false Linux, and the few people who do get confused by it will soon discover the truth when they contact any other part of the community. |
| 12:20.57 | jannu | buz: probably too much ahead of it's time |
| 12:21.05 | Morgaine | aloril: So it's my belief that *within* the FOSS community, there is pretty much nothing to be gained by embracing trademark. And that's very separate from using trademark as a weapon against the non-FOSS world outside, which is a very different --- mainly of interest to those corporations who now make money from Linux. |
| 12:21.07 | Morgaine | END |
| 12:21.10 | SpeedEvil | You have to bring lawyers to the party. |
| 12:21.21 | SpeedEvil | If you don't defend a trademark, it goes away. |
| 12:21.45 | Morgaine | SpeedEvil: so what --- read my lines |
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| 12:22.11 | LuitvD | counter! |
| 12:22.16 | LuitvD | counter |
| 12:22.16 | aloril | source: a day 23:37:43 (1.985 days); P0: 15.985; P1: 46.985; P2: 229.985 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (294) |
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| 12:27.14 | noidd | How about I cut this down to a very simple argument. |
| 12:27.19 | Morgaine | I remember at least a couple of instances of silly/greedy people using the "linux" label in inappropriate ways. Linus didn't sue. They went away, simply because the FOSS community wasn't interested. That's what it comes down to. |
| 12:27.19 | noidd | The guy asked permission. |
| 12:27.28 | noidd | The trademark owner granted it. |
| 12:27.37 | noidd | Therefor - the trademark is used with permission therefor defended. |
| 12:27.41 | SpeedEvil | If the trademark goes away, anyone can use the trademark 'Linux' or ... |
| 12:27.46 | noidd | So the whole damn argument is completely irrelevant. |
| 12:27.52 | Morgaine | SpeedEvil: so what? |
| 12:28.04 | aloril | Morgaine: lets move a bit further, lets assume there was GPL implementation of XP and then this corporation makes huge changes to Linux so that it retains maybe only few % of mainstream Linux code while it mostly actually resembles closely of GPL XP implementation |
| 12:28.21 | aloril | Morgaine: I think it would be practically cheating to call that Linux |
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| 12:29.36 | Morgaine | aloril: yes indeed, I agree entirely. And there are plenty of people that would do so (I was being generous when I merely labelled it "anti-social" above) .... but so what? It wouldn't really satisfy any community need except vengeace to bring law into it. |
| 12:29.38 | jannu | aloril: a much better example is something like a company making some crappy os of their own, with no connection to linux whatsoever and calling that linux |
| 12:30.29 | aloril | jannu: yeah, but I wanted to retain tiny part of "derivative code" ;-) |
| 12:30.29 | Morgaine | FOSS is actually extremely resilient to tampering, without the help of legal aids. |
| 12:31.14 | jannu | aloril: ok. that's just not what trademarks are about imho |
| 12:32.06 | noidd | trademarks are about protecting branding. Nothing else. |
| 12:32.21 | Morgaine | So what I'm really saying is: FOSS is actually much sturdier than any legal fictions. *Within* the community (as opposed to without), it's not actually important at all. |
| 12:32.26 | jannu | aloril: the main point of trademarks is quality control. i.e. the fact that when you go and buy a can of coke you don't get orange juice |
| 12:32.38 | aloril | Morgaine: umm.. lets change it a bit: if I say Linus Torvalds said "something gross thing that would offend a lot of people" ... |
| 12:33.30 | aloril | jannu: yeah, but I think underlying idea is same as "lying" ;-) |
| 12:33.31 | Morgaine | noidd: exactly. And within the FOSS community, "branding" is almost a non-issue -- at worst, it's just a name clash, a small annoyance. |
| 12:34.05 | aloril | umm.. lying with commercial interest |
| 12:34.18 | aloril | lying to besmirch reputation |
| 12:34.24 | jannu | aloril: i.e. marketing |
| 12:34.26 | aloril | etc.. basically its form of lying |
| 12:34.43 | aloril | jannu: hehe, but there are limits to that lying ;-) |
| 12:35.19 | Morgaine | aloril: plenty of that around, FUD of all sorts is thrown against Linux and against Linus ... but does it matter? *Within* the community, we just laugh at it. |
| 12:36.01 | Morgaine | I tell you, FOSS is extremely strong. |
| 12:37.37 | jannu | the problem imho is that without trademark protection or something similar, buying stuff would become a whole lot harder |
| 12:38.01 | jannu | i mean basically i could buy a can of coke and get spring water |
| 12:38.24 | SpeedEvil | There is 'trades descriptions' - or whatever it's called in the states. |
| 12:38.31 | SpeedEvil | The truth in advertising regs. |
| 12:38.41 | SpeedEvil | And copyright of the can design. |
| 12:38.53 | SpeedEvil | It gets harder, yes. |
| 12:39.10 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:40.04 | Morgaine | jannu: lol, indeed. But that analogy doesn't work within the FOSS community, because we have our own advertising and our own internal watchdogs --- a million observant eyes. |
| 12:40.04 | greghunt | did you hear about "dr" gillian thingy, she's not allowed to call herself a dr anymore |
| 12:40.14 | greghunt | as she paid $60 for a phd on the interblag |
| 12:40.28 | SpeedEvil | Those aren't real? |
| 12:40.35 | SpeedEvil | OMG, I was done! :) |
| 12:40.41 | LuitvD | :P |
| 12:40.58 | LuitvD | hello guys |
| 12:41.07 | SpeedEvil | Hello. |
| 12:41.33 | jannu | Morgaine: true, and with code you have all sorts of other verification systems like signed releases |
| 12:41.39 | LuitvD | (with me being the public :) ) |
| 12:41.40 | Morgaine | Hi LuitvD. We forgive you about the chocolate ... basically because we couldn't figure out a way past your AI defenses ... ;-) |
| 12:41.49 | SpeedEvil | Is the hardware being sent out on schedule? |
| 12:41.50 | LuitvD | victory :D |
| 12:41.53 | Morgaine | Hehe |
| 12:41.54 | SpeedEvil | s/is/has/ |
| 12:42.41 | Stephmw | unlikely |
| 12:43.01 | aloril | Morgaine: yes, its not white/black issue, but I think there should be some limits to lying |
| 12:43.01 | LuitvD | lol, everything is delayed here |
| 12:43.03 | Morgaine | SpeedEvil: no, it's delayed. It turns out that that 3-week delay was for the Phase 0 batch .... very odd that we weren't told about it, seeing as they knew. |
| 12:43.08 | LuitvD | which is normal for open source stuff |
| 12:43.09 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 12:44.30 | aloril | Morgaine: if jtag related cable had worked, then no delay I think |
| 12:44.45 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 12:45.18 | aloril | Morgaine: reading mails I got impression that one problem in hardware -> month delay is common |
| 12:45.19 | SpeedEvil | It's not a JTAG cable - AIUI. It's the bluetooth cable. |
| 12:45.32 | Morgaine | aloril: funnily enough, I think that one of the (possibly) unintended consequences of s/w freedom (that in most cases it ends up being free of cost too) is that "lying" hasn't caught on in the community --- because there is no money at stake within the non-corporate sphere. |
| 12:45.34 | aloril | SpeedEvil: OK, I guess I remembered wrong |
| 12:45.39 | SpeedEvil | Which has been rerouted from its original position to expose the JTAG |
| 12:46.06 | Stephmw | Morgaine: in a lot of cases it's also fairly easy to detect, even a few years down the line |
| 12:46.23 | Stephmw | Morgaine: public source control is very nice |
| 12:46.34 | aloril | Morgaine: also I got impression that this was surprise to FIC |
| 12:47.12 | Stephmw | maybe FIC had the contract saying "it *will* be done!" and the contractee defaulted? |
| 12:47.18 | aloril | but... this is bases all on just reading public ML ;-) |
| 12:47.23 | SpeedEvil | I gather that this is not FIC. |
| 12:47.32 | Morgaine | aloril: yes, manufacturing delays are very common. What's odd isn't the h/w hitch, but that Sean knew about it but chose not to say right up until the time of expected release. I guess he's under pressure. No biggie I suppose. |
| 12:47.46 | aloril | yes, problematic cable was from outside FIC IIRC |
| 12:47.52 | SpeedEvil | This is a small part of FIC, and the outside contractors making the cables are external. |
| 12:48.03 | SpeedEvil | It's usual to buy almost everything in from outside. |
| 12:48.20 | SpeedEvil | Some large makers may have their own board assembly houses. |
| 12:48.58 | SpeedEvil | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:48.58 | aloril | Morgaine: I would not attribute anything evil here |
| 12:49.00 | LuitvD | "30 frame-per-second H.264 and VC-1 decoder that supports 640 x 480 resolution" |
| 12:49.06 | SpeedEvil | ? |
| 12:49.10 | LuitvD | that would be great for Neo1973's screen |
| 12:49.14 | SpeedEvil | Haha. |
| 12:49.15 | Morgaine | What's the 3D hardware in the Dell Axim? I remember that PDA was once touted as being the only one supported accelerated 3D gaming. |
| 12:49.17 | SpeedEvil | _no_way_ |
| 12:49.31 | SpeedEvil | My laptop (PII/300 can't do that) |
| 12:49.39 | Morgaine | aloril: yeah, I agree. It's disappointing, but that's all. |
| 12:49.47 | SpeedEvil | It's at least 4 times faster than the neo processor. |
| 12:49.48 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: aha! but did they say what the stream consisted of? |
| 12:49.56 | SpeedEvil | h.264 |
| 12:49.59 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: might just be a blue screen for 5mins |
| 12:50.05 | LuitvD | Morgaine: I guess it's GoForce6100's previous model |
| 12:50.10 | SpeedEvil | Oh - yeah. It can just about keep up with blank. |
| 12:51.17 | Morgaine | Well, in any case ... I don't think there's any disputing that v2 *will* have 3D acceleration. Heck, even my watch will have 3D acceleration by Sept 2008. |
| 12:51.35 | SpeedEvil | If it diddn't it'd be horribly inconvenient. |
| 12:51.45 | SpeedEvil | Imagine having to keep your watch at the same height all the time. |
| 12:51.48 | SpeedEvil | Awful. |
| 12:51.53 | Morgaine | Hehehe |
| 12:52.59 | LuitvD | s/have/had/ |
| 12:53.07 | aloril | Morgaine: I got impression that v2 CPU is *fast*, but no hardware 3D (but I might remember wrong or gotten wrong impression) |
| 12:53.10 | SpeedEvil | Accelleration = change in velocity |
| 12:53.26 | Morgaine | LuitvD: F=ma where F is applied by wrist :-))) |
| 12:53.41 | LuitvD | :P |
| 12:53.48 | LuitvD | that one I do get |
| 12:54.04 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:54.08 | LuitvD | ah, now i see :P |
| 12:54.30 | Morgaine | Like all good jokes, a sudden change of context. |
| 12:54.46 | LuitvD | or simply the oposite of what you expect ;) |
| 12:54.53 | aloril | SpeedEvil: about big screen and real size keyboard: wear alternate reality glasses where some part of screen is replaced with virtual screen with size you want and with virtual keyboard |
| 12:55.09 | SpeedEvil | Virtual keyboards don't really work. |
| 12:55.20 | SpeedEvil | Unless you've got accurate per-finger touch feedback. |
| 12:55.58 | *** join/#openmoko gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk) |
| 12:56.04 | aloril | SpeedEvil: then add exoskeleton and force feedback gloves to simulate chair and real keyboard feeling |
| 12:56.09 | LuitvD | ideal v3 openmoko device: sunglasses with built-in screen (heck, maybe even eyeball implants :) ) and a brain implant for the user-input |
| 12:56.10 | SpeedEvil | Virtual displays tend to have problems too. First that you look like a borg. |
| 12:56.54 | LuitvD | aloril: that's a great option... |
| 12:57.04 | Morgaine | I like the idea of throat mikes, fixed to collar. Subvocalized sounds should fit in well with Unix .... "grep, awk, sed, burp" ;-))) |
| 12:57.07 | LuitvD | the exoskeleton could have many more cool features then |
| 12:57.12 | aloril | SpeedEvil: well.. as you can guess I'm assuming technology not from current time ;-) |
| 12:57.45 | aloril | SpeedEvil: above was reply to something like "pocket size full size keyboard and display" or something like that (from memory) ;-) |
| 12:57.59 | SpeedEvil | I was more meaning a nice folding one. |
| 12:57.59 | LuitvD | Morgaine: nah, then you'd be typing bullshit when clearing your throat |
| 12:58.16 | SpeedEvil | I teally want a 17" display I can crumple up and jam in my pocket. |
| 12:58.23 | aloril | SpeedEvil: OK, you were not joking then |
| 12:58.40 | SpeedEvil | Not really - it's is a _horribly_ hard engineering problem. |
| 12:58.41 | Morgaine | LuitvD: hehe. Yeah, would have to control random noises. |
| 12:59.09 | SpeedEvil | It's annoying that holograms as popular media understands them can't exist either. |
| 12:59.24 | LuitvD | clearing your nose, clearing your throat, coughing, chewing gum... |
| 12:59.25 | LuitvD | :P |
| 12:59.29 | SpeedEvil | You need some surface which you look at, that extends over the complete visual area of the display. |
| 12:59.44 | SpeedEvil | Be it fog, a spinning mirror, or ... |
| 13:00.10 | Morgaine | How come that we can see the image on LCD glasses? Obviously the eye can't focus that close. |
| 13:00.13 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: you don't exactly need that... |
| 13:00.37 | SpeedEvil | Morgaine: because the output lens covers the field of view. |
| 13:00.38 | LuitvD | Morgaine: not if a regular LCD is put into a pair of glasses |
| 13:00.53 | LuitvD | s/not// |
| 13:00.56 | SpeedEvil | And presents a correctly focussed image into the eye. |
| 13:00.59 | aloril | SpeedEvil: I guess you have seen this: http://www.aeinnovations.com/projects/ver0/ (but of course I'm talking about something much more advanced) |
| 13:01.25 | SpeedEvil | There are lots of liars and idiots not understanding the fundamental physics out there. |
| 13:01.36 | SpeedEvil | saying 'lasers' does not mean that something magically works. |
| 13:01.46 | Morgaine | Looking |
| 13:01.57 | LuitvD | idem |
| 13:01.59 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 13:02.41 | SpeedEvil | Cool. |
| 13:02.49 | SpeedEvil | You are however looking through the beamsplitter. |
| 13:03.01 | SpeedEvil | This completely covers the virtual area of the display. |
| 13:03.02 | LuitvD | lol, clicked "My next attempts" |
| 13:03.04 | LuitvD | "Pictures are worth a thousand words:" |
| 13:03.09 | LuitvD | none of the pictures work |
| 13:03.39 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yes, this is not alternate reality glasses, but example of "you don't need to look like cyborg" |
| 13:04.30 | aloril | s/this is /these are / |
| 13:05.04 | Morgaine | SpeedEvil: going back to my question about focus, I don't actually understand how covering the whole field of view makes any difference. Any given pixel in the LCD still has to be focussed as a single point on the retina. |
| 13:05.28 | aloril | it would be nice to HMD like above for some version of Neo as option (like bluetooth headsets) |
| 13:05.32 | SpeedEvil | Yes - for which, there needs to be light coming from that angle into the eye. |
| 13:05.36 | LuitvD | Morgaine: why do you think this guy has put a 3mm thick lens in front of it? |
| 13:05.36 | SpeedEvil | There is no way round this. |
| 13:05.57 | SpeedEvil | Light does not at human intensities mix with itself. It travels in straight lines. |
| 13:06.08 | Morgaine | LuitvD: LOL. You mean to say that LCD glasses actually have thick lenses in them? |
| 13:06.15 | SpeedEvil | yes. |
| 13:06.26 | LuitvD | didn't you see that device Morgaine ? |
| 13:06.35 | SpeedEvil | They have little magnifying glasses that focus on the .5cm display. |
| 13:06.43 | LuitvD | http://www.aeinnovations.com/projects/ver0/s__aeinnovations.com_gfx_tm1v2close.jpg |
| 13:06.44 | aloril | SpeedEvil: yeah, so you need to have cameras/displays at both sides covering everything ;-) |
| 13:06.46 | LuitvD | that picture |
| 13:06.56 | Morgaine | But then the rest of the world is seen out of focus! That's insane, not like a HUD at all. We need an overlaid image. |
| 13:07.03 | SpeedEvil | err - no. |
| 13:07.09 | SpeedEvil | That's what the beamsplitter is for. |
| 13:07.29 | Morgaine | Looking again. |
| 13:07.30 | SpeedEvil | It splits the constructed virtual image of the display at infinity, and the real image. |
| 13:07.32 | *** join/#openmoko vrt (n=vrt@unaffiliated/cherubiel) |
| 13:07.39 | SpeedEvil | so you can see both. |
| 13:07.43 | LuitvD | Morgaine: through that lens... yes |
| 13:07.58 | Morgaine | SpeedEvil: cool |
| 13:08.10 | SpeedEvil | You do not look at the world through that lens in goggles that overlay it with the world. |
| 13:08.22 | SpeedEvil | It's the same idea as HUDs in cars/planes. |
| 13:08.39 | LuitvD | SpeedEvil: isn't the LCD simply sandwiched between lenses? |
| 13:09.00 | LuitvD | oh wait, now i can see :P |
| 13:09.23 | SpeedEvil | It's exactly the same as having a little bit of paper, with a magnifying glass, and holding it to your eye to see it. |
| 13:09.30 | SpeedEvil | The backlight complicates thing. |
| 13:09.32 | SpeedEvil | s |
| 13:10.40 | SpeedEvil | There may also be more than one lens, to improve optical quality. |
| 13:12.13 | LuitvD | anyhow, that thing is cool :) |
| 13:12.27 | Morgaine | Just trying to sort out the basic optics in my mind, not the electronics. If I understand it for a fixed translucent object that close up, I'll understand it for an LCD. |
| 13:13.23 | LuitvD | Morgaine: the LCD isn't translucent... I guess |
| 13:13.27 | SpeedEvil | It's the same as opaque objects. |
| 13:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko friede1 (n=fwolff@thbh-ip-vsat-2-p254.vsat.telkom-ipnet.co.za) |
| 13:15.00 | Morgaine | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-up_display |
| 13:15.09 | SpeedEvil | How it works is that the lens takes each spot on the display, and projects it to a parallel beam of light. |
| 13:15.17 | Morgaine | "Aircraft information is projected with its focus at infinity. Automotive information is projected around the distance of the bumper. Doing this means that a user does not need to refocus his eyes (which takes several tenths of a second) when changing his attention between the instrument and the outside world." |
| 13:15.27 | SpeedEvil | That parallel beam of light then resolves (when the eye focusses on it) into a dot in the right place. |
| 13:15.34 | aloril | interesting how borg peripheral bluetooth headsets have rapidly been accepted by mainstream ;-) |
| 13:15.41 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 13:15.53 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081FEF9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 13:16.17 | Morgaine | LOL, Slashdot will have to change its image of Bill Gates ... else he'll become a symbol for progress ;-) |
| 13:16.35 | LuitvD | what? :| |
| 13:16.54 | SpeedEvil | the borg |
| 13:17.01 | LuitvD | ah, right |
| 13:17.10 | Morgaine | (MS stories bear an icon image of Gates wearing a Borg eyepiece) |
| 13:17.26 | aloril | if something like almost normal looking sunglas displays were commercially available and reasonable priced and Neo supported, I would certainly get one (+ Twiddler == Wearable computer) |
| 13:17.26 | LuitvD | yeah, i know |
| 13:18.15 | LuitvD | aloril: if I had eggs I'd make egg and bacon. If I had bacon... |
| 13:18.20 | LuitvD | same thing :P |
| 13:18.40 | aloril | LuitvD: yeah, though wearable computing is idea is more than 20 years old |
| 13:18.56 | Morgaine | SpeedEvil: OK, I see my mistake, I thought the LCD was being seen as-is, rather than the image being projected optically. Cool. |
| 13:19.01 | aloril | s/is idea // |
| 13:19.40 | LuitvD | aloril: timetraveling is an even older idea... |
| 13:21.08 | LuitvD | http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/13/0213259&from=rss |
| 13:21.14 | LuitvD | will the neo have that too? :P |
| 13:21.47 | LuitvD | american sign language recognition |
| 13:21.54 | LuitvD | even better then voice recognition :P |
| 13:22.18 | Morgaine | LuitvD: I know at least one OM developer interested in ASL, so the answer is almost sure to be Yes. |
| 13:22.47 | LuitvD | Morgaine: will the neo have a camera? |
| 13:22.54 | LuitvD | (can't find that anywhere) |
| 13:23.46 | Morgaine | LuitvD: camera is on the v2 wishlist, but there are issues in the community`--- eg. some people aren't allowed to take cameras into office. |
| 13:23.59 | LuitvD | ah :) |
| 13:24.06 | LuitvD | that's weird |
| 13:24.26 | Morgaine | That's why I suggested a screw-in lens cap (not easily flicked out), or an entirely removeable camera module. |
| 13:25.01 | LuitvD | you can still create an USB camera module... |
| 13:25.02 | greghunt | it seems like a solution would be to offer a couple of different hardware versions |
| 13:25.14 | LuitvD | but it has to be unpowered, right? |
| 13:25.15 | Morgaine | Alternative idea: screw-in lens. Without the lens, it's only usable as a scanner. |
| 13:25.32 | aloril | LuitvD: not just idea: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steve_Mann http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thad_Starner http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wearable_computer |
| 13:26.28 | Morgaine | And the screw-in lens idea would also make Neo2 the very first camera with swappable lenses ... a poor man's DSLR ;-)))))))))))) Marketting would love that. |
| 13:26.51 | LuitvD | lol |
| 13:27.39 | Morgaine | But the important thing about it would be that peoplecould still take the phone into their offices, as it would not take pics of anything further than a cm away. |
| 13:27.45 | greghunt | if you had like some sort of small builtin module, that could swap custom componants... |
| 13:27.52 | greghunt | like gps/camera/wifi |
| 13:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 13:28.19 | Morgaine | Actually, not even a cm ... it would have to be in contact. |
| 13:28.48 | Morgaine | Ie. without a lens, it's just a contact scanner. |
| 13:29.02 | LuitvD | Morgaine: it'd have to be on the CCD... |
| 13:29.28 | LuitvD | and it wouldn't be a contact scanner then, because there is no light |
| 13:29.36 | LuitvD | so it'd be useless |
| 13:29.39 | LuitvD | well... |
| 13:29.45 | LuitvD | not completely useless... |
| 13:29.47 | Morgaine | LuitvD: hahahaha. Good point, would need its own illumination |
| 13:29.52 | LuitvD | heh |
| 13:30.22 | LuitvD | but, without a lens, it would be a nice light-intensity meter :) |
| 13:30.25 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 13:30.43 | LuitvD | intensity and color |
| 13:30.52 | Morgaine | Well anyway, I'm not too fussed about scanning. Just trying to find a way to satisfy both the camera and no-camera people at same time. |
| 13:31.05 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-171-246.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:31.16 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 13:31.22 | greghunt | do that many people have problems with cameras? |
| 13:31.56 | Morgaine | Dunno about percentage. Some have very strong views about it. |
| 13:32.14 | LuitvD | a complaint is a complaint :) |
| 13:32.33 | Morgaine | But if a single design can satisfy both parties, all the better ;-))) |
| 13:32.42 | LuitvD | yeah |
| 13:32.46 | LuitvD | it'd be a great design |
| 13:32.51 | Morgaine | And removeable lens is a pretty cute idea. |
| 13:33.07 | LuitvD | removable lens... slide-away lens... something like that |
| 13:33.13 | noidd | <LuitvD> american sign language recognition |
| 13:33.17 | aloril | and yet almost everybody has a stereo camera, its just its storage medium is inexact and extracting images from it is a bit hard |
| 13:33.25 | aloril | ;-) |
| 13:33.26 | LuitvD | noidd: what? |
| 13:33.34 | noidd | Heh, that would rock. Not sure the phone has the computing power to render an animated avatar tho |
| 13:33.35 | noidd | :-) |
| 13:33.36 | Morgaine | Slide away lens won't overcome the office objections. |
| 13:33.53 | noidd | or do video recognition |
| 13:33.58 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@p57AE9D12.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:34.02 | greghunt | what cpu does it have anyway? |
| 13:34.03 | LuitvD | noidd: yeah, as of now, that is |
| 13:34.20 | noidd | also - deaf people would rather type and read in text honestly than sign at their camera |
| 13:34.24 | LuitvD | noidd: if the next-gen phone gets an imageon cpu (a new AMD mobile chip) |
| 13:34.27 | noidd | although it is a cute gimmick |
| 13:34.47 | LuitvD | noidd: read the article ;) |
| 13:34.59 | noidd | I'll tell you what would be great tho |
| 13:35.02 | Morgaine | Bah, this thing has more power than a VAX 780 a few decades ago, and that powered a whole university .... we just need to optimize. ;-))) |
| 13:35.24 | noidd | is the video translation service |
| 13:36.21 | noidd | "The current wireless telephone network has inadvertently excluded over one million deaf or hard of hearing Americans." |
| 13:36.28 | noidd | I fundimentally disagree with that statement |
| 13:36.37 | LuitvD | Morgaine: even my microchip can crunch more MIPS |
| 13:36.41 | noidd | I've yet to meet a Deaf person who doesn't have a cellphone./ |
| 13:36.49 | Morgaine | noidd: You reckon it was intentional? |
| 13:36.49 | LuitvD | (*uses a PIC18F4431 in his robot) |
| 13:36.56 | noidd | They tend to be data-centric like using the Sidekick from Suncom / T-Mobile |
| 13:37.16 | noidd | and Suncom does Data-Only (with no voice minutes) plans for people who are deaf |
| 13:37.21 | noidd | so I call bullshit on that statement. |
| 13:37.37 | Morgaine | LuitvD: hehe, nice. I've messed with PICs a bit, but prefer Atmels. |
| 13:37.54 | fluffs | Morgaine: yeah, we're using avr32s for pm on new board |
| 13:37.58 | aloril | wiki is good idea, but also a bit problematic, for example wikipedia closes some pages to anonymous editing and some other even more |
| 13:38.07 | LuitvD | Morgaine: why? |
| 13:38.23 | Morgaine | LuitvD: got a URL? |
| 13:38.28 | aloril | imagine wiki, but instead of text it would be code that you would be running: if this can be made to work, then ... |
| 13:38.29 | LuitvD | of what? |
| 13:38.37 | noidd | "This material is based upon work supported by the National Science Foundation under Grant No. 0514353." - There is your answer :-P |
| 13:38.51 | LuitvD | Morgaine: URI of what? wanna see my robot or something ? :P |
| 13:38.58 | Morgaine | LuitvD: oh, just more resources, and a bit higher level instruction set. PICs are fun, but not as handy for C for example. |
| 13:39.25 | Morgaine | LuitvD: if there's something on project, yeah, that would be nice to see. If exists |
| 13:39.42 | LuitvD | Morgaine: C programming works fine for me :P SDCC works great |
| 13:39.42 | noidd | I'm trying to work out what they are trying to achieve |
| 13:40.00 | noidd | It looks like video compression which is higher detail in signing areas |
| 13:40.10 | LuitvD | Morgaine: a not-so-recent image of my robot: http://img.luitvd.nl/robot.png |
| 13:40.15 | noidd | they're not trying to try and interpret ASL tho, thank God. |
| 13:40.30 | LuitvD | Morgaine: about a week ago, with no motors connected yet |
| 13:40.37 | Morgaine | LuitvD: * dev-embedded/sdcc |
| 13:40.37 | Morgaine | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:40.39 | LuitvD | (for testing the chip's capabilities) |
| 13:40.39 | Morgaine | Installing |
| 13:41.04 | LuitvD | Morgaine: get that off the repositry |
| 13:41.13 | LuitvD | they've got 2,4 already |
| 13:42.22 | noidd | I'm going to forward that article to my (Deaf) cousin and ask his opinion on signing to a cellphone |
| 13:42.32 | noidd | I have a sneaky suspicion I know what he'll say |
| 13:42.46 | noidd | also - how on earth are you going to sign at a cellphone |
| 13:42.53 | noidd | sit it on a shelf and sign from a distance? |
| 13:43.04 | noidd | and then get up close so you can see a reply? |
| 13:43.07 | noidd | makes no sense |
| 13:44.06 | LuitvD | noidd: you're right... it doesn't make sense... |
| 13:44.14 | LuitvD | but it's a nice feature :P |
| 13:44.23 | greghunt | how would you sign with 1 hand? |
| 13:44.40 | greghunt | and surely typing is faster and more secure ;p |
| 13:44.45 | LuitvD | greghunt: using the ASL alphabet |
| 13:45.23 | LuitvD | that's one-handed |
| 13:45.43 | greghunt | surely a better feature would be one of those hearing aid hooks |
| 13:45.44 | LuitvD | Morgaine: get the SVN version !!! :P |
| 13:45.48 | aloril | step 1) combine wiki and git/arch/etc.. that allows easy forking |
| 13:45.49 | greghunt | that transmits to it |
| 13:46.03 | greghunt | or a textto phone thing |
| 13:46.30 | greghunt | if you want to go for the deaf market |
| 13:47.01 | aloril | step 2) some authors are considered more reliable based on past or their record makes them more reliable |
| 13:47.21 | aloril | step 3) there are authors who combine stuff from several authors (mini distros) |
| 13:48.03 | aloril | step 4) then person(s) that edit mainstream tree whose work mostly consists of combining stuff from previous steps |
| 13:48.23 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 13:48.43 | aloril | simple spelling/other obvious fixes would be accepted rapidly by even '4' level authors, more complex, more upstream person needs to accept it |
| 13:49.50 | aloril | maybe something like this could combine fast changes, good reviews, anybody can edit, authority, etc.. |
| 13:50.11 | aloril | problem is that this idea is missing actual details on how to do it ;-) |
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| 13:51.04 | aloril | actually all trees would be viewable by anybody, but it moves to mainstream only once somebody has approved it |
| 13:51.35 | aloril | you yourself can select which branch you like, so there isn't necessarily one mainstream |
| 13:52.41 | greghunt | that sounds very complex and difficult to maintain |
| 13:53.04 | aloril | greghunt: maybe, maybe this idea could be simplified |
| 13:53.18 | aloril | s/,/ or/ |
| 13:53.30 | greghunt | or do you mean something like on freebsd, with different CVS tags |
| 13:53.49 | greghunt | RELEASE_1_0 1_1 etc and a CURRENT for actuve development |
| 13:53.53 | aloril | anyway, hopefully I managed to convey basic idea? |
| 13:53.55 | greghunt | new stuff can be backported |
| 13:54.09 | aloril | greghunt: yes, but it would be editable like wiki by anybody |
| 13:54.40 | greghunt | that sounds somewhat risky, having people send in patches that can be reviewed by a trusted source |
| 13:54.46 | aloril | but.. initially anonymous edits might not be visible by default: depends on article though |
| 13:55.00 | aloril | greghunt: yes, that is indeed risky |
| 13:55.03 | greghunt | though it would encourage participation |
| 13:55.43 | aloril | for wiki and low volume article default mainstream commit works (though I guess there could be 5min - 15min delay or something ...) |
| 13:56.39 | noidd | greghunt: signing is much faster than typing. People can sign faster than you can talk. |
| 13:56.39 | aloril | for code though I doubt can never go with anonymous mainstream ;-) |
| 13:56.39 | noidd | greghunt: hearing aid hooks don't help Deaf people :-P |
| 13:56.40 | noidd | Meeting - back soon. |
| 13:56.42 | greghunt | most people seem to have partial deafness though |
| 13:58.02 | aloril | this model would be both fork friendly (trivial to fork) and fork hostile (you want to eventually get your changes back to mainstream) |
| 13:58.51 | rboehme | counter |
| 13:58.52 | aloril | source: a day 22:01:07 (1.917 days); P0: 15.917; P1: 46.917; P2: 229.917 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (295) |
| 13:59.13 | aloril | I guess for code/articles that are contentious forks would be likely |
| 13:59.57 | jeddy3 | isnt 22:01:07, like 0.9 days...not 1.9? :) |
| 14:00.21 | koen | a day + 22:01:07 |
| 14:00.50 | jeddy3 | oh!, right |
| 14:03.44 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=daniel@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 14:04.00 | Elrond | Hi people. |
| 14:04.15 | LuitvD | heya |
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| 14:39.47 | Elrond | So are any service yet public? |
| 14:40.00 | Elrond | (except the already known ones planet,projects) |
| 14:40.19 | hrw | none |
| 14:41.08 | SpeedEvil | I want hardware details. "the usb port is 30.5mm from the left of the phone"... so I can try making hardware. |
| 14:41.48 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - "making hardware"? |
| 14:41.53 | SpeedEvil | To fit the neo. |
| 14:42.17 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 14:42.29 | Elrond | BTW: I like LaF0rge's posting! |
| 14:42.33 | SpeedEvil | For example - it's quite possible to make USB plugs that don't stick out much if at all. |
| 14:42.55 | SpeedEvil | Then there are cheap USB peripheral chips that'd let you run buttons or things. |
| 14:43.20 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahhh. |
| 14:43.20 | SpeedEvil | At the moment, I'm making a new case. |
| 14:43.38 | SpeedEvil | Out of two ceramic 60*60cm floor tiles, and 12 10*20cm glass tiles. |
| 14:44.06 | SpeedEvil | The entire edge will be gently lit. |
| 14:44.12 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 14:44.30 | Elrond | *g* :) |
| 14:44.45 | Elrond | I'm exactly a non-hardware-hacker. ;) |
| 14:44.48 | SpeedEvil | It's a table/computer case. |
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| 14:55.08 | CM | mickeyl: Seen LaF0rges blog post? |
| 14:55.20 | mickeyl | which one? |
| 14:55.23 | SpeedEvil | url? |
| 14:55.28 | koen | planet.openmoko.org |
| 14:55.30 | mickeyl | http://gnumonks.org/~laforge/weblog/2007/02/12#20070212-moko_delay ? |
| 14:55.55 | CM | Yes, that one |
| 14:56.04 | SpeedEvil | I think most have. |
| 14:56.22 | mickeyl | yeah, that's a really good article imo |
| 14:56.30 | CM | Good post, well written |
| 14:56.37 | SpeedEvil | Hang on - is that shrinking the P0-P2 window by a month? |
| 14:56.37 | Elrond | Yes! |
| 14:56.39 | SuN | I like the honesty in there. |
| 14:57.00 | Elrond | SuN - Yep! |
| 14:57.18 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - 2 weeks, I'd say. |
| 14:57.25 | SuN | I bet if that were a 100% corporate environment (say, non-FOSS), he'd be seriously reprimanded by his boss/manager/superior. |
| 14:57.29 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 14:57.47 | SuN | I need to get used to this, but I think I like it :) |
| 14:57.49 | SpeedEvil | Well - I've seen small companies do essentially the same. |
| 14:58.08 | koen | "commit early, commit often" |
| 14:58.15 | harlekin | :-) |
| 14:58.16 | fluffs | yep |
| 14:58.35 | koen | quality or polishing is irrelevant |
| 14:58.40 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - small companies, yes. |
| 14:59.03 | SpeedEvil | Big companies and governments tend to suffer from an obsession with corporate voice. |
| 14:59.07 | SuN | "Why fix it when you can have someone else do it" makes sense :) |
| 14:59.09 | koen | "if it isn't in the SCM, it doesn't exist" |
| 14:59.16 | SpeedEvil | Which is undcerstandable, but annoying. |
| 14:59.20 | SuN | "someone else" being the global FOSS community. |
| 14:59.56 | Elrond | SuN - I like this honesty so much! |
| 15:00.23 | SuN | I do too, but for some people I guess it would be a bit harsh. |
| 15:00.51 | SuN | It's the truth, but if you're one of FIC's coding minions, you won't be happy ;) |
| 15:01.18 | Elrond | I wonder, what the FIC officials would think, when they'd read that. |
| 15:01.41 | SuN | As do I, methinks they should maintain a blog as well. |
| 15:04.25 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@12.190.41.146) |
| 15:04.29 | Elrond | "Do they really know, what "we" are doing here?", etc |
| 15:05.34 | SuN | All in all I think this entire project is a revolution in the FOSS world though. |
| 15:05.35 | koen | in the foss world it's an evolution |
| 15:05.45 | koen | in the CSS world it's a revolution |
| 15:05.57 | SuN | Yeah, I guess you can say that. |
| 15:06.36 | koen | documentation and programmer for the gsm module would be a revolution |
| 15:07.17 | SuN | Let's take this.. one step at a time :) |
| 15:08.41 | daxxar | counter |
| 15:08.42 | aloril | source: a day 20:51:19 (1.869 days); P0: 15.869; P1: 46.869; P2: 229.869 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (296) |
| 15:08.57 | SuN | That's more or less like NVidia open sourcing their driver. I wonder if I will live to see that. |
| 15:09.23 | SuN | Did the counter flip or was it adjusted? |
| 15:09.46 | leventhal | Probably adjusted, the text string is entirely different now |
| 15:09.55 | Clint | adjusted to compensate for the delay |
| 15:09.59 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin (n=Harlekin@mnch-4db01703.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 15:10.20 | SuN | Hm... wondering why they didn't just register "zwei.de". |
| 15:12.46 | Elrond | mickeyl - Do you have any infos on what "FIC offials" say/think about this? Or did you sign an NDA? ;) |
| 15:12.59 | mickeyl | sorry, lacking context |
| 15:13.03 | mickeyl | what's the question? |
| 15:14.08 | Elrond | mickeyl - We were just wondering, what FIC officials would think about LaF0rge's latest blog entry. |
| 15:14.29 | mickeyl | ah |
| 15:15.15 | mickeyl | actually i have no idea. the only one FIC official i know backs it up though |
| 15:15.16 | Elrond | mickeyl - You can read that as a much more general question like: "Do they even know, what crazy project they fund there?"... or anything like that. |
| 15:15.31 | mickeyl | hehe, yes, they know about the project |
| 15:15.42 | mickeyl | and they are excited |
| 15:15.45 | mickeyl | because they see the value |
| 15:15.50 | mickeyl | but they don't understand the "mechanics" yet |
| 15:16.27 | koen | "What's this 'indenting' you all keep talking about?" |
| 15:16.40 | Elrond | koen - *G* Yeah. :-) |
| 15:17.01 | SuN | "Hey, this vaguely resembles VB6. Is this machine code?" |
| 15:17.46 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081FCD8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:17.55 | koen | I know the trouble I had teaching students "best practices when crosscompiling" |
| 15:18.15 | Elrond | mickeyl - Do they try to understand the "mechanics"? Or is just "another black box, hopefully giving money at the end"? ;) |
| 15:19.07 | mickeyl | Elrond: as far as i can tell they see the value in open solutions, it's just that they have no idea how to be a part of the community. but we're slowly teaching them |
| 15:19.08 | SuN | I can imagine about two dozen other black boxes with a bigger chance of being profitable, but you never know in corporate world :) |
| 15:19.31 | Elrond | mickeyl - Ahh, cool. :-)) |
| 15:19.42 | SuN | Slap Symbian on it -> market as a SE clone -> profit! |
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| 15:20.26 | aloril | SuN: there is still long version available: just add '?' (works here (answering questions) and "/msg aloril counter?" too) |
| 15:20.51 | SuN | Yeah I saw that, was just wondering about the validity of the ETA though. |
| 15:21.37 | mickeyl | eagle eyes |
| 15:21.38 | mickeyl | :) |
| 15:21.50 | Stephmw | hey mickeyl |
| 15:21.51 | aloril | SuN: that is upper limit estimate based on latest announce mail |
| 15:22.14 | koen | we all hope the plane uses an afterburner :) |
| 15:22.17 | Elrond | koen - hehe, I noticed them too. ;) Only the projects one has content for the ordinaries like us. ;) |
| 15:22.18 | SuN | aloril: alright, thanks for clearing that up. |
| 15:22.19 | aloril | lower limit is from -1 day to -few weeks |
| 15:23.10 | aloril | of course lower limit is also guess based on that same and earlier mail ;-) |
| 15:23.12 | Stephmw | what's will be the p0 production volume? also 1k devices? |
| 15:23.32 | aloril | 50-100? |
| 15:23.38 | mickeyl | iirc 200 |
| 15:25.05 | LuitvD | back :) |
| 15:25.17 | koen | so you need 50% yield to supply all p0 devs |
| 15:25.24 | LuitvD | aloril: none of those will be sold? |
| 15:25.27 | LuitvD | :P |
| 15:25.36 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: The new links on p.o.o were changed against the old feed links? They are missing again. :) |
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| 15:26.23 | alphaone | stefan_schmidt: You should be learning :-) |
| 15:26.40 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: arg, got me. |
| 15:26.47 | stefan_schmidt | alphaone: iirc you, too. :) |
| 15:27.17 | stefan_schmidt | sigh, back to Wahrscheinlichkeitstheorie :( |
| 15:27.29 | koen | heh |
| 15:27.48 | Elrond | Wahrscheinlichkeitstheorie huh... long ago that. |
| 15:27.48 | koen | s/the/to/ |
| 15:27.51 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: sure? i can see the links here |
| 15:28.06 | mickeyl | just mousehover over them |
| 15:28.39 | Stephmw | Elrond: yeah, very long ago... so long I've forgotten everything about it |
| 15:28.41 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: hmm, the links for the *planet* feeds? They were under the subscriber links box once ago. |
| 15:28.56 | koen | th eopml, atom and rss ones |
| 15:29.15 | stefan_schmidt | koen: right |
| 15:29.27 | mickeyl | oh these ones |
| 15:29.30 | mickeyl | right |
| 15:29.35 | mickeyl | they're gone |
| 15:29.41 | koen | a turing test ;) |
| 15:29.50 | Elrond | Stephmw - IÄm supposed to know that all still. ;) |
| 15:30.46 | stefan_schmidt | anyway, another learn session is waiting on me. cu later. |
| 15:30.55 | mickeyl | good luck |
| 15:31.18 | Elrond | Stephmw - Yep, good luck. |
| 15:31.27 | Elrond | stefan_schmidt - Yep, good luck. |
| 15:31.55 | buz | http://feeds.feedburner.com/~r/weblogsinc/engadgetmobile/~3/90253825/ that looks like one neat chip |
| 15:33.12 | koen | I heard FIC is going to put a quadcore opteron in v2 |
| 15:33.26 | buz | probably comes with binary nvidia blob |
| 15:33.30 | Stephmw | koen: only after the V12 gives it power |
| 15:33.33 | aevin | koen: what? not a V8 engine? |
| 15:33.46 | aevin | ah, V12 :) |
| 15:33.47 | Stephmw | ~V12 |
| 15:33.49 | apt | methinks v12 is the next must-have in the Neo1973, http://www.ultimatestupidity.com/pics/1/diesel/ |
| 15:33.50 | buz | actually the nvidia thingy is intended to power phoens ;) |
| 15:34.08 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B916C.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 15:34.38 | fluffs | buz: you assume that nvidia will release source for their chips |
| 15:34.54 | buz | actually i think it comes with x86 only drivers *EG* |
| 15:36.03 | Stephmw | fluffs: didn't they eventually do that for forcedeth? |
| 15:43.19 | *** join/#openmoko marcfiu (n=mef@aegis.CS.Princeton.EDU) |
| 15:43.35 | marcfiu | Hello OpenMoko World! |
| 15:44.17 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 15:46.31 | Elrond | Hi marcfiu |
| 15:47.00 | fluffs | anyone taking bets on wether they'll meet the next code deadline? |
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| 15:49.00 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 15:49.10 | marcfiu | Hey Elrond |
| 15:50.33 | Stephmw | fluffs: well, with 'them' in here... it's a little, I dunno, impolite? at least do it behind their backs :) |
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| 15:51.48 | marcfiu | hey cprf, your down rt 1 from me. What does a ocaml hacker want with a linux phone? :) |
| 15:52.28 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
| 15:54.23 | marcfiu | fluffs: stuff slips all the time... hardware is well, hard to get right. I think most of us are hoping they'll catch a break and deliver something soon. Personally, I'm fine with the software not being perfect. |
| 15:55.54 | marcfiu | On a different topic, from what I gather everything will be open except for the driver that controls the GSM radio. Is that about right? |
| 15:56.37 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 15:58.15 | koen | marcfiu: no |
| 15:58.19 | Morgaine | Since the 3-week delay is only for the hardware (just 3 days for software), it's no big deal really ... just means that more work has to be done under emulation, but that's probably easier/faster than on the real hardware. |
| 15:58.30 | koen | marcfiu: the gsm part is a seperate module, so no driver needed |
| 15:58.42 | koen | marcfiu: the only closed part is the gps daemon |
| 15:58.54 | koen | "emulation" |
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| 16:00.09 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 16:00.32 | Elrond | Morgaine - Hi! And yes. |
| 16:02.01 | Morgaine | koen: aye, I didn't mean emulation, hehe, I meant running your stuff native in your host, within xoo. It's nothing to do with emulation, but what's the word for that? |
| 16:03.07 | koen | "make belief" |
| 16:03.13 | Morgaine | HJehehehe |
| 16:04.12 | Morgaine | Wish I could find a USB graphics device for the Slug, just for that kind of ting. |
| 16:04.18 | Morgaine | thing* |
| 16:04.52 | Morgaine | Rare as hen's teeth |
| 16:05.00 | SpeedEvil | USB2? |
| 16:05.09 | SpeedEvil | The slug |
| 16:05.09 | Stephmw | not manufactured, or just hard to find? |
| 16:05.16 | buz | there is one |
| 16:05.24 | Robot101 | Morgaine: like what, VGA, or just a little display? |
| 16:05.27 | Morgaine | They used to be around, just rare nowadays |
| 16:05.38 | koen | it's about 50 euros, available from mulitple webshops |
| 16:05.49 | Morgaine | Robot101: no no, it's a graphics adapter, but hangs off USB. No display |
| 16:05.50 | marcfiu | koen: thanks for the info. |
| 16:05.53 | SpeedEvil | Linux drivers are questionable for many AIUI. |
| 16:06.50 | Morgaine | Robot101: just like you get USB audio adapters, same idea. |
| 16:06.57 | Robot101 | yeah |
| 16:07.18 | SpeedEvil | On the other hand, I'd quite like a 1" OLED USB thing. |
| 16:07.31 | SpeedEvil | 128*128 or so. |
| 16:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081FCD8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:07.47 | Stephmw | like those funky 3-key oled usb things? |
| 16:07.52 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 16:08.07 | SpeedEvil | Look at the price of low end MP3 players with oled screens. |
| 16:08.22 | SpeedEvil | Mono, or area colour. It can't be high in volume. |
| 16:08.32 | marcfiu | koen: I have a rather dumb question... as a future project I might have an opportunity to collaborate with someone who has a software-based BTS and if possible I'd like to have the openmoko phone communicate with this BTS using the conventional GSM protocols within an unlicensed frequency band. Is it possible to tune the frequencies that the phone will use in order to do this? |
| 16:08.38 | Morgaine | Would be nice to stick on the front of machines too. Those 16x2 serial LCDs are a bit long in the tooth. |
| 16:09.28 | Morgaine | ~bts |
| 16:09.32 | apt | bts is probably a bug tracking system, or http://bugs.kde.org |
| 16:09.33 | Elrond | marcfiu - Probably not in a open documented way. |
| 16:09.50 | SpeedEvil | My ideal 'hacker' device at the moment would look like a small 4 port powered USB hub, have a 1" OLED display on top, run linux on a 200Mhz+ processor, with 64M ROM and RAM. |
| 16:09.50 | mickeyl | marcfiu: that's not a dumb question. unfortunately the answer is "no". we don't have access to that kind of functionality, since the gsm module handles everything in a transparent way throught an AT interface. |
| 16:10.00 | marcfiu | koen: that is, we can likely futz around with the frequencies that the software-based BTS will work with, so I am looking for a "hackable" phone that I can do this with. |
| 16:10.11 | SpeedEvil | BTS? |
| 16:10.19 | mickeyl | there is no way you get such a phone approved |
| 16:10.24 | mickeyl | your best bet is OSSRP |
| 16:10.46 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081FCD8.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:11.01 | marcfiu | SpeedEvil: BTS == base transceiver station. The thing that mobile phones communicate with. |
| 16:11.06 | ynezz | marcfiu: i don't know about such phone, you've to build one yourself probably... |
| 16:11.08 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 16:11.19 | SpeedEvil | Yep. |
| 16:11.20 | Morgaine | marcfiu: radio amateurs want that kind of stuff too. But that sort of frequency programmability will never appear in commercial cellphone gear. |
| 16:11.32 | SpeedEvil | I don't know. |
| 16:11.38 | SpeedEvil | With 'one chip' phones, it might. |
| 16:11.51 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 16:12.02 | SpeedEvil | If they can be cracked and linux run on them. |
| 16:12.15 | SpeedEvil | However, this means writing your own GSM stack, which is complex. |
| 16:12.16 | ynezz | no way via AT commands |
| 16:12.21 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 16:12.48 | marcfiu | mickeyl: I'm not really a radio / cell phone type of person... what is OSSRP? |
| 16:12.58 | Morgaine | It's not really related to bug tracking systems at all though. This is more general topic of "flexible/open amateur RF device". |
| 16:13.01 | mickeyl | open source software controlled radio stack |
| 16:13.36 | mickeyl | but you may have a hard time implementing a gsm stack using that |
| 16:13.40 | mickeyl | gsm is _huuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuge_ |
| 16:13.47 | marcfiu | mickeyl: understood. |
| 16:14.01 | SpeedEvil | And the networks generally will really not want you doing this. |
| 16:14.03 | Morgaine | marcfiu: you want a modular phone, where you can unplug the GSM module (or the camera or whatever) and plug in your special purpose RF module. |
| 16:14.05 | marcfiu | mickeyl: of course, the company that has the BTS has something closed source. |
| 16:14.07 | Elrond | mickeyl - Huh, is gsm really that annoying? |
| 16:14.17 | SpeedEvil | GSM is really complex. |
| 16:14.18 | mickeyl | Elrond: worse! :) |
| 16:14.26 | SpeedEvil | And there is no cheap way to test it. |
| 16:14.27 | *** join/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
| 16:14.28 | mickeyl | there's billions of $$$ IP in a gsm stack |
| 16:29.53 | *** join/#openmoko apt_ (i=ibot@pdpc/supporter/active/TimRiker/bot/apt) |
| 16:29.54 | *** topic/#openmoko is OpenMoko Developer Lounge | http://www.openmoko.com | http://lists.openmoko.org | 2007 Roadmap: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/announce/2007-January/000000.html | unofficial Wiki @ http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/ |
| 16:30.25 | Elrond | Hmm, except my dad's phone, there's nothing with BT I could reach. :-| |
| 16:30.30 | *** join/#openmoko rboehme (n=rboehme@dsl001-156-033.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:30.35 | LuitvD | Morgaine, Elrond: upgraded my defence system with 3 backup systems of AI v13.3.7 |
| 16:31.02 | Morgaine | LuitvD: see if we care. /me munches a Danish pastry instead |
| 16:31.12 | LuitvD | :| |
| 16:31.14 | LuitvD | meh |
| 16:31.54 | LuitvD | have my chocolate, I'm off for some 'chokoflockenkuche' :) |
| 16:32.17 | Morgaine | Hmmm ... wonder if Babfish will cope with that |
| 16:32.22 | koen | ch9ocolate chip ccookie? |
| 16:32.23 | LuitvD | lol |
| 16:32.28 | LuitvD | cake |
| 16:32.35 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: found em... we just need www.phidgets.com to make oled-based stuff :) |
| 16:32.46 | burbuja | 0_o |
| 16:32.48 | LuitvD | koen: go find some at the Lidl, it's great stuff :P |
| 16:33.02 | Morgaine | burbuja: hi Bubbles ;-) |
| 16:33.37 | Morgaine | As opposed to "bruja" |
| 16:33.39 | burbuja | Morgane: Hiiiiiii :D |
| 16:33.45 | Elrond | Morgaine - curd with tangerines for dessert here. :) |
| 16:33.48 | burbuja | Morgane: jejejeje |
| 16:34.28 | Morgaine | Elrond: not had curd for a decade at least |
| 16:34.40 | burbuja | I'm not a "bruja" I'm a powerpuff girl jejeje XD |
| 16:34.49 | Morgaine | burbuja: Eeek |
| 16:34.57 | burbuja | ajajaja |
| 16:35.11 | LuitvD | burbujajajajaja? |
| 16:35.17 | LuitvD | :P |
| 16:35.18 | burbuja | yeaaah ajajaja |
| 16:35.27 | Clint | dios mio |
| 16:35.43 | LuitvD | burbuja: http://www.iiiiiiii.com/ ? |
| 16:35.44 | burbuja | spanish? jiji |
| 16:35.47 | Morgaine | The language of beaches |
| 16:36.01 | burbuja | LuitvD: click |
| 16:36.03 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: a start... but $750 is the price for eval boards :( http://www.domaintec.com/A3P-OLED.html#OrderingInformation |
| 16:36.03 | LuitvD | :) |
| 16:36.27 | Elrond | Morgaine - You need political asylum? ;o) |
| 16:37.19 | Morgaine | Elrond: hehehehehe. Not AFAIAA, but I've often wondered if I'd be let into USA as I'm highly critical of politicians ;-) |
| 16:37.42 | burbuja | LuitvD: http://www.homestead.com/coquetas/burbio.html |
| 16:38.03 | Elrond | Morgaine - I'm not in that country. I don't want to go there either. :) |
| 16:38.17 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: another one, but the OLED is tiny.. $49 http://www.luminarymicro.com/products/ekk-lm3s811_evaluation_kit.html |
| 16:38.20 | LuitvD | burbuja: lol, that's not what I meant... ajajajaj made me think of iiiiiiii.com :P |
| 16:38.32 | burbuja | LuitvD: ajajajaja |
| 16:38.36 | Morgaine | LOL, coquetas, funny |
| 16:39.42 | burbuja | :) |
| 16:40.58 | Morgaine | ardilla is squirrel, yes? |
| 16:41.06 | burbuja | yap |
| 16:41.10 | Morgaine | k |
| 16:41.43 | Morgaine | I don't usually ask for squirrels, it's cerveza more often |
| 16:42.27 | burbuja | cerveza? jejejeje i like a lot, specially the Artesanal Red |
| 16:45.14 | Elrond | Anyway. I'm getting home. commiting some stuff or fixing the laser cooling for the hyperspace beam thing. ;) |
| 16:45.31 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: and lastly, the optimus stuff, http://store.artlebedev.com/catalog/computer_add-ons/ |
| 16:45.40 | LuitvD | Stephmw: what about that oled stuff? |
| 16:45.54 | Morgaine | Hehe, cyl El |
| 16:45.58 | LuitvD | Stephmw: what should it be used for again? |
| 16:46.03 | Elrond | Morgaine - Laters. :) |
| 16:46.17 | Stephmw | LuitvD: any odd gadget ;-) |
| 16:46.39 | LuitvD | Stephmw: phidgets are way to expensive |
| 16:48.21 | LuitvD | I have an OLED display here (20x2 chars) for about 10 bucks, I can get a microcontroller for about the same amount of money, a pair (10 actually) of mosfets for 3 bucks, and a bunch of connectors for about 5 bucks |
| 16:48.57 | LuitvD | add 10 bucks to that for the PCB and you have the same thing for about 40 bucks |
| 16:49.30 | fluffs | but you'd have to spend money building it |
| 16:49.52 | Stephmw | and at lease a few cents on shipping |
| 16:49.56 | Stephmw | *least |
| 16:50.03 | fluffs | that little board looks like fun |
| 16:53.56 | Stephmw | pricy though :( |
| 16:54.07 | Stephmw | god knows how much the fullsize keyboard will cost |
| 16:54.26 | hrw | Stephmw: BT one? |
| 16:54.35 | Stephmw | hrw: that Optimus OLED one |
| 16:54.50 | Stephmw | hrw: don't think the neo will have enough juice to power it :) |
| 16:58.46 | hrw | ;) |
| 17:04.31 | SpeedEvil | Stephmw: somewhere I found a 1.5" or so OLED for 20 quid. |
| 17:05.05 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I'd be interested in a similar device ;) |
| 17:06.37 | Morgaine | Stephmw: with power by PoE, that would be nice. |
| 17:08.19 | SpeedEvil | Aha. |
| 17:08.22 | SpeedEvil | http://www.sparkfun.com/commerce/categories.php |
| 17:09.17 | SpeedEvil | 1.4" 128*128 OLED - 17 quid. |
| 17:09.21 | SpeedEvil | $35 US |
| 17:09.42 | Morgaine | The D-Link DWL-P200 PoE units have never given me any trouble btw, in case anyone's considering one. |
| 17:11.16 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: doesn't seem to include the controller |
| 17:11.52 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 17:12.59 | SpeedEvil | It actaully does have the controller. |
| 17:13.08 | SpeedEvil | It's not USB, or ... though. |
| 17:16.41 | cbpage | it's SPI at least |
| 17:17.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 17:17.33 | Stephmw | I think we're trashing sparkfun's server ;) |
| 17:18.21 | SpeedEvil | They do have some interesting stuff. |
| 17:19.51 | prpplague | Stephmw: they are moving servers this week |
| 17:19.56 | SpeedEvil | 'GSM module with GPS', ... |
| 17:20.56 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko maydaytx_ (i=johndoe@cpe-67-9-70-44.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 17:22.25 | maydaytx_ | counter |
| 17:22.25 | aloril | source: a day 18:37:34 (1.776 days); P0: 15.776; P1: 46.776; P2: 229.776 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (297) |
| 17:23.59 | Stephmw | koen: what kinds of framerates can your usbvga dongle sustain? |
| 17:23.59 | *** join/#openmoko rejo1 (n=rejon@adsl-75-5-124-98.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 17:24.18 | maydaytx_ | so it got delayed a couple of weeks? |
| 17:24.39 | SpeedEvil | Looks like hardware, yes. |
| 17:24.46 | SpeedEvil | there were problems with internal cabling. |
| 17:25.07 | SpeedEvil | Source delayed a few days too. |
| 17:25.32 | maydaytx_ | i see |
| 17:26.36 | maydaytx_ | well, have a good day...gotta get back to work |
| 17:27.48 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 17:28.48 | *** join/#openmoko mlpug (n=user@a85-156-253-211.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 17:29.25 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: no prices, http://www.trident-uk.co.uk/component_displays/colour_modules/oled/ |
| 17:30.03 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.144.23) |
| 17:30.10 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux_ (n=sri@59.96.35.104) |
| 17:30.35 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - there are lots and lots of places with no prices. |
| 17:33.41 | Stephmw | found one... optional usb interface too |
| 17:33.58 | Stephmw | http://www.dontronics-shop.com/product.php?productid=16535&cat=263&page=1 44 EUR |
| 17:39.10 | burbuja | :/ |
| 17:40.09 | *** join/#openmoko apardo (n=apardo@87.217.144.23) |
| 17:41.49 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.174.192.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 17:41.50 | koen | the finnish thing? |
| 17:41.50 | mjr | (he's visiting Finland before FOSDEM) |
| 17:41.53 | mjr | yea |
| 17:42.23 | mjr | st... stupid English ordinal number system ;) |
| 17:43.04 | rob_w | hey all |
| 17:46.17 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 17:51.33 | *** join/#openmoko avm (n=avm@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 17:53.19 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=loufoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 17:53.59 | zipola | Any further information about visit to Finland? |
| 17:59.05 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@p5485F384.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:00.45 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=irc@d14-69-228-190.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 18:01.20 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-72-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:02.37 | LuitvD | lol, speeding up :) |
| 18:06.09 | burbuja | LuitvD: i'm bored too :( |
| 18:06.50 | LuitvD | ? |
| 18:07.05 | LuitvD | V2 what? |
| 18:07.05 | SpeedEvil | Doesn't everyone want an early IRBM? :) |
| 18:07.33 | LuitvD | lol, I certainly do |
| 18:08.21 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@80-192-23-26.stb.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 18:09.03 | *** join/#openmoko whereisbot (n=whereisb@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 18:09.17 | ajturner | whereisbot: help |
| 18:09.18 | whereisbot | Hi, I'm whereisbot (a http://highearthorbit.com/project/whereisbot/) |
| 18:09.19 | whereisbot | Commands: iamhere, whereami, wherearethey, whereis, whereisresp, whereisspeak |
| 18:09.20 | LuitvD | whereisbot? |
| 18:09.21 | whereisbot | Try "whereisbot: help command?" if stuck. My owner is ajturner. |
| 18:09.22 | ajturner | play with whereisbot |
| 18:09.24 | ajturner | .whereami |
| 18:09.26 | whereisbot | [off] ajturner is probably in Royal Oak, MI, US [42.5086 x -83.1546] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.5086,-83.1546+(ajturner) |
| 18:09.32 | ajturner | .whereis LuitvD |
| 18:09.33 | LuitvD | whereami |
| 18:09.34 | whereisbot | LuitvD is hiding behind the tapestries (beigetower/luitvd) |
| 18:09.39 | LuitvD | :D |
| 18:09.41 | LuitvD | wohoo |
| 18:09.43 | ajturner | .whereis SpeedEvil |
| 18:09.46 | whereisbot | SpeedEvil is hiding behind the tapestries (tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:09.51 | ajturner | bah - tor! |
| 18:09.57 | LuitvD | .whereis ajturner |
| 18:09.59 | ajturner | .whereis incinerator |
| 18:10.01 | whereisbot | [off] ajturner is probably in Royal Oak, MI, US [42.5086 x -83.1546] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.5086,-83.1546+(ajturner) |
| 18:10.03 | whereisbot | [off] incinerator is probably in Dundee, UK (guessed) [56.5 x -2.9667] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=56.5,-2.9667+(incinerator) |
| 18:10.19 | ajturner | you can use iamhere |
| 18:10.24 | ajturner | whereisbot: help iamhere |
| 18:10.26 | whereisbot | '.iamhere <location name> - Sets your current location (e.g. San Francisco, CA)' |
| 18:10.30 | *** join/#openmoko burbuja (i=c850ce04@gateway/web/cgi-irc/linuxpreview.org/x-c6745506e4710dd7) |
| 18:10.32 | LuitvD | whereisbot: help .iamhere |
| 18:10.34 | burbuja | ups |
| 18:10.34 | whereisbot | Sorry, no documentation for .iamhere. |
| 18:10.43 | LuitvD | whereisbot: help iamhere |
| 18:10.45 | whereisbot | '.iamhere <location name> - Sets your current location (e.g. San Francisco, CA)' |
| 18:11.03 | SpeedEvil | .iamhere 15m nw of http://maps.google.co.uk/?q=56.21678+-3.111850+(home)&ie=UTF8&z=11&ll=56.249836,-3.111877&spn=0.146489,0.531464&om=0&iwloc=addr |
| 18:11.10 | whereisbot | Sorry, I don't know where that is |
| 18:11.14 | ajturner | SpeedEvil, give the city/country name |
| 18:11.15 | LuitvD | .iamhere Zeist, Utrecht, NL |
| 18:11.17 | whereisbot | now I know you're in Zeist, NETHERLANDS [52.099998 x 5.23] |
| 18:11.22 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:11.26 | ajturner | yup |
| 18:11.50 | ajturner | want to write a client to optionally set your location using your Neo1973 ;) |
| 18:11.58 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:11.59 | LuitvD | yay |
| 18:12.20 | ajturner | right now it's using hostip.info |
| 18:12.26 | LuitvD | ajturner: wrong statement, it should be: "I want a Neo1973" ;) |
| 18:12.40 | ajturner | I have filed my requests & reasoning w/ the core team |
| 18:12.41 | ajturner | I do |
| 18:12.44 | mjr | zipola, about the Finland visit; mjr.iki.fi/openmoko/openmoko4.pdf (mostly finnish) |
| 18:12.52 | mjr | +http:// |
| 18:12.56 | ajturner | going to several location confs this spring/summer and want to demo it during my talks |
| 18:13.19 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@e179242120.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:13.20 | zipola | mjr: Thanks. |
| 18:13.21 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:13.28 | mjr | oh, also http://www.coss.fi/web/coss/events?p_p_id=86 |
| 18:13.41 | mjr | (mostly English) |
| 18:13.44 | ajturner | .whereisspeak on |
| 18:13.46 | whereisbot | whereis new user announcement turned on |
| 18:13.53 | ajturner | this usually weirds people out |
| 18:14.00 | ajturner | wait for the next person to join the channel |
| 18:14.15 | LuitvD | ajturner: hostip.info tells me I'm in Leiden... |
| 18:14.21 | ajturner | update it |
| 18:14.21 | LuitvD | that's 50km off |
| 18:14.26 | ajturner | that's also a problem w/ IP geolocation |
| 18:14.32 | ajturner | but if you tell it, it learns |
| 18:14.45 | ajturner | probably someone else witha similar IP used it in Leiden |
| 18:14.53 | LuitvD | lol |
| 18:14.56 | ajturner | I was just in Amsterdam in Sept :) |
| 18:14.59 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-41-120-47.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:15.02 | LuitvD | nope, I've got a dynamic IP |
| 18:15.05 | ajturner | even worse |
| 18:15.13 | whereisbot | [off] cying is probably in (Unknown City?), XX [ x ] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=,+(cying) |
| 18:15.22 | ajturner | mobile IP is even worst |
| 18:15.33 | ajturner | I've been located in Texas - over 1500miles away |
| 18:15.53 | *** part/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 18:15.56 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@beigetower/luitvd) |
| 18:15.59 | whereisbot | [off] LuitvD is in Zeist, Utrecht, NETHERLANDS (set) [52.1 x 5.23] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.1,5.23+(LuitvD) |
| 18:16.03 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:16.06 | ajturner | yup |
| 18:16.07 | LuitvD | now it knows :) |
| 18:16.25 | LuitvD | aah, it points to the wrong place |
| 18:16.26 | ajturner | btw - [off] is there since any channel loggers usually ignore [off] commands as 'off the record' |
| 18:16.45 | ajturner | how so? |
| 18:16.56 | ajturner | bah - google geocoding |
| 18:17.13 | LuitvD | ajturner: it's the wrong part of this city :P |
| 18:17.38 | ajturner | this is what comes up when you just search googlemaps: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Zeist,+Utrecht,+Netherlands&ie=UTF8&sll=52.108825,5.239105&sspn=0.261461,0.592575&z=11&ll=52.114939,5.262451&spn=0.261426,0.817795&om=1 |
| 18:17.49 | ajturner | yeah, the mapping for various providers is known to be bad in regions |
| 18:17.56 | LuitvD | try 52.081024,5.225541 |
| 18:17.59 | ajturner | yahoo - for example - is abysmal in New Zealand & Australia |
| 18:18.04 | ajturner | I don't own gmaps data ;) |
| 18:18.04 | LuitvD | that's the exact location of my computer : |
| 18:18.06 | LuitvD | :P |
| 18:18.08 | ajturner | nice |
| 18:18.15 | LuitvD | the exact place :P |
| 18:19.00 | LuitvD | look at the sattelite images |
| 18:19.09 | LuitvD | and zoom DOWN |
| 18:19.15 | LuitvD | aaaall the way doooown |
| 18:19.17 | ajturner | try iamhere with the lat/lon |
| 18:19.17 | LuitvD | :P |
| 18:19.28 | LuitvD | .iamhere http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.081024,5.225541 |
| 18:19.32 | LuitvD | :P |
| 18:19.34 | whereisbot | now I know you're in MILTON, US [38.4266 x -82.1441] |
| 18:19.34 | ajturner | no, just lat,lon |
| 18:19.51 | LuitvD | wow, that's far off |
| 18:20.01 | LuitvD | .iamhere 52.081024,5.225541 |
| 18:20.04 | whereisbot | now I know you're in , [52.081024 x 5.225541] |
| 18:20.11 | LuitvD | .whereami |
| 18:20.13 | whereisbot | [off] LuitvD is in ,, (set) [52.081 x 5.22554] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.081,5.22554+(LuitvD) |
| 18:20.25 | ajturner | well, map is right - just doesn't let you know where that is ;) |
| 18:20.37 | ajturner | hrm, guess I should add reverse geocoding |
| 18:20.38 | LuitvD | well... |
| 18:20.53 | LuitvD | it's off about 3 meters |
| 18:20.54 | LuitvD | :P |
| 18:21.11 | koen | .whereami |
| 18:21.15 | whereisbot | [off] koen is probably in Enschede, NL [52.2167 x 6.9] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.2167,6.9+(koen) |
| 18:21.16 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:21.22 | LuitvD | enschede... |
| 18:21.26 | LuitvD | is that true? |
| 18:21.49 | koen | yes |
| 18:21.52 | SuN | Why would he lie about it? :D |
| 18:22.09 | LuitvD | it told me I was in Leiden... |
| 18:22.29 | *** part/#openmoko SportChick (n=essy@about/essy/stouterik/pdpc.base.SportChick) |
| 18:22.43 | LuitvD | and IIRC, my house is in zeist :) |
| 18:23.02 | ajturner | LuitvD - obviously you're misinformed |
| 18:23.07 | SuN | Hah |
| 18:23.31 | LuitvD | lol |
| 18:24.40 | hrw | LuitvD: you flooder |
| 18:24.57 | LuitvD | hrw: :) |
| 18:24.58 | hrw | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:25.06 | LuitvD | no usefull conversations going now, so it's okay... right? |
| 18:25.12 | hrw | bye LuitvD - few days in ignore list |
| 18:25.52 | LuitvD | :) tried /ignore LuitvD for myself... It won't work |
| 18:27.03 | LuitvD | ^^ |
| 18:27.47 | koen | rebooterola |
| 18:27.56 | LuitvD | heuh? :P |
| 18:27.57 | hrw | craporola? |
| 18:28.17 | LuitvD | notorola |
| 18:28.20 | koen | I have a new catchphase |
| 18:28.26 | koen | OMG PRODUCTIVE!!!!! |
| 18:28.31 | LuitvD | ? |
| 18:28.38 | SuN | Well let's hope it's indeed a phase. |
| 18:28.51 | koen | where 'productive' means 'do nothing for 4 years' |
| 18:29.43 | SuN | Hey, it's open source. Fix it yourself ;) |
| 18:30.28 | buz | koen must be talking about phd students |
| 18:30.29 | SpeedEvil | Threy've done something. |
| 18:30.29 | koen | SuN: heh, the case in point is the fix being available, but gtk+ people being too lazy to apply the patch |
| 18:30.32 | koen | I can't fix that myself |
| 18:30.37 | SpeedEvil | My GTK 1.1 libs aren't new enough to build anything against anymore... |
| 18:30.39 | koen | short of forking gtk+ |
| 18:30.42 | buz | i'm just angry about the one writing the exam tomorrow... |
| 18:30.46 | SpeedEvil | 1.2 |
| 18:30.53 | koen | SpeedEvil: xmms |
| 18:31.46 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 18:31.54 | whereisbot | [off] greentux is probably in Ulaanbaatar, MN (guessed) [47.9167 x 106.883] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.9167,106.883+(greentux) |
| 18:32.15 | LuitvD | .whereis whereisbot |
| 18:32.16 | buz | .whereami |
| 18:32.17 | whereisbot | [off] whereisbot is in NORTHVILLE, MI, US (set) [42.431 x -83.4846] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.431,-83.4846+(whereisbot) |
| 18:32.20 | whereisbot | [off] buz is probably in Basel, CH (guessed) [47.55 x 7.58333] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.55,7.58333+(buz) |
| 18:32.36 | buz | mhh not really but close enough on a global scale |
| 18:33.27 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:33.35 | whereisbot | [off] goxboxlive is probably in Oslo, NO [59.95 x 10.7] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=59.95,10.7+(goxboxlive) |
| 18:33.45 | *** part/#openmoko hrw (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 18:33.45 | *** join/#openmoko hrw (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 18:33.51 | leventhal | .whereami |
| 18:33.54 | hrw | will it guess or not? |
| 18:33.55 | hrw | ah. |
| 18:34.05 | whereisbot | [off] leventhal is probably in Enschede, NL [52.2167 x 6.9] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.2167,6.9+(leventhal) |
| 18:34.07 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 18:34.12 | leventhal | Heh. Way off. |
| 18:34.13 | whereisbot | [off] dottedmag is probably in Novosibirsk, RU [55.0333 x 82.9167] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=55.0333,82.9167+(dottedmag) |
| 18:34.14 | whereisbot | dottedmag is hiding behind the tapestries (rtfm.google-it.info) |
| 18:34.15 | hrw | .whereami |
| 18:34.16 | ml8128 | .whereami |
| 18:34.21 | whereisbot | [off] ml8128 is probably in Rouen, FR [49.4333 x 1.08333] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=49.4333,1.08333+(ml8128) |
| 18:34.29 | whereisbot | [off] ml8128 is probably in Enschede, NL [52.2167 x 6.9] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.2167,6.9+(ml8128) |
| 18:34.38 | maydaytx | .whereami |
| 18:34.41 | ajturner | sorry - it doesn't handle multiple requests at once well |
| 18:34.43 | whereisbot | [off] maydaytx is probably in Temple, TX, US (guessed) [31.0977 x -97.3635] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=31.0977,-97.3635+(maydaytx) |
| 18:34.45 | hrw | .whereami |
| 18:34.59 | whereisbot | [off] hrw is probably in Enschede, NL [52.2167 x 6.9] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.2167,6.9+(hrw) |
| 18:34.59 | goxboxlive | about 20Km fauil in airline :-) Cool though |
| 18:35.17 | goxboxlive | .whereami |
| 18:35.21 | whereisbot | [off] goxboxlive is probably in Oslo, NO [59.95 x 10.7] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=59.95,10.7+(goxboxlive) |
| 18:35.22 | hrw | ajturner: it check hostname? |
| 18:35.34 | koen | hrw: wanna grab a beer, since your in enschede? |
| 18:35.49 | leventhal | ajturner: Does it handle ipv6? |
| 18:35.55 | hrw | koen: if I would be there I would call you directly instead of being on irc ;D |
| 18:36.00 | koen | :) |
| 18:36.04 | hrw | cu |
| 18:36.14 | ml8128 | ircbots contest till sources are out ? :) |
| 18:36.14 | ajturner | leventhal - no |
| 18:36.20 | ajturner | heh |
| 18:36.30 | ajturner | hrw - using IP addr |
| 18:36.31 | leventhal | Ah, okay.. that'd explain why it was off |
| 18:36.43 | leventhal | Canadian using a british ipv6 tunnel here |
| 18:37.00 | ajturner | .whereis leventhal |
| 18:37.03 | whereisbot | leventhal is hiding behind the tapestries (rtfm.google-it.info) |
| 18:37.34 | ajturner | yeah, so it's currenlty using hostip.info |
| 18:37.37 | *** join/#openmoko hrw (n=hrw@c33-187.icpnet.pl) |
| 18:37.41 | whereisbot | [off] hrw is probably in Poznan, PL (guessed) [52.4166 x 16.8833] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.4166,16.8833+(hrw) |
| 18:37.44 | hrw | .whereami |
| 18:37.49 | whereisbot | [off] hrw is probably in Poznan, PL (guessed) [52.4166 x 16.8833] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.4166,16.8833+(hrw) |
| 18:37.56 | hrw | whereisbot: now better ;) |
| 18:37.58 | hrw | cu |
| 18:38.05 | ajturner | want to update it to use a Neo client ;) |
| 18:39.29 | greentux | .whereami |
| 18:39.33 | whereisbot | [off] greentux is probably in Ulaanbaatar, MN (guessed) [47.9167 x 106.883] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.9167,106.883+(greentux) |
| 18:39.58 | greentux | hohoho |
| 18:40.54 | nbd | .whereami |
| 18:40.57 | whereisbot | nbd is hiding behind the tapestries (openwrt/developer/nbd) |
| 18:41.04 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:41.08 | whereisbot | [off] Tv is probably in Los Angeles, CA, US [34.1121 x -118.411] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=34.1121,-118.411+(Tv) |
| 18:41.33 | Tv | hah, somebody loves their bots |
| 18:41.42 | Tv | also, not that accurate |
| 18:41.46 | buz | .whereis whereisbot |
| 18:41.48 | whereisbot | [off] whereisbot is in NORTHVILLE, MI, US (set) [42.431 x -83.4846] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.431,-83.4846+(whereisbot) |
| 18:41.56 | Tv | .icbm whereisbot |
| 18:41.59 | Tv | ;) |
| 18:42.02 | Clint | .whereami |
| 18:42.02 | buz | lol |
| 18:42.07 | whereisbot | [off] Clint is probably in Albuquerque, NM, US (guessed) [35.1172 x -106.625] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=35.1172,-106.625+(Clint) |
| 18:42.32 | buz | those adultfriendfinder porn ads are much more accurate |
| 18:43.29 | zipola | I vote for kicking the bot. |
| 18:45.15 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 18:45.17 | whereisbot | TimRiker is hiding behind the tapestries (pdpc/supporter/bronze/TimRiker) |
| 18:45.54 | fluffs | .whereami |
| 18:45.59 | whereisbot | [off] fluffs is probably in Hildesheim, DE (guessed) [52.15 x 9.95] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.15,9.95+(fluffs) |
| 18:46.20 | fluffs | not even the right country |
| 18:46.58 | ajturner | fluffs - where are you |
| 18:48.05 | fluffs | Manchester, UK |
| 18:48.33 | *** join/#openmoko slomo (n=slomo@ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 18:48.35 | whereisbot | slomo is hiding behind the tapestries (ubuntu/member/slomo) |
| 18:48.49 | ajturner | fluffs - update your info at hostip.info |
| 18:49.04 | fluffs | the machine i connect via is in london |
| 18:49.35 | ajturner | see - perfect need for a Neo geo-client, to know where *you* (well, your mobile) is |
| 18:49.52 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:49.53 | whereisbot | [off] thedaniel is probably in Los Angeles, CA, US [34.1121 x -118.411] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=34.1121,-118.411+(thedaniel) |
| 18:53.09 | LuitvD | .whereami |
| 18:53.12 | whereisbot | [off] LuitvD is in ,, (set) [52.081 x 5.22554] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=52.081,5.22554+(LuitvD) |
| 18:53.13 | LuitvD | :) |
| 18:53.23 | LuitvD | does know where, but doesnt know where |
| 18:53.42 | LuitvD | lets see if I can set both city and lat/long |
| 18:54.09 | LuitvD | .iamhere Zeist, Netherlands [52.081 x 5.22554] |
| 18:54.21 | whereisbot | now I know you're in STAFFORD, US [38.4501 x -77.4008] |
| 18:54.22 | LuitvD | ... |
| 18:54.33 | LuitvD | took some time, and he's got it wrong :P |
| 18:54.36 | LuitvD | .whereami |
| 18:54.39 | whereisbot | [off] LuitvD is in STAFFORD, VA, US (set) [38.4501 x -77.4008] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=38.4501,-77.4008+(LuitvD) |
| 18:55.04 | LuitvD | .iamhere Zeist, Utrecht, NL 52.081,5.22554 |
| 18:55.07 | whereisbot | now I know you're in STAFFORD, US [38.4501 x -77.4008] |
| 18:55.11 | LuitvD | ... |
| 18:55.14 | ajturner | LuitvD - that won't work |
| 18:55.15 | LuitvD | right... |
| 18:55.20 | LuitvD | .iamhere Zeist, Utrecht, NL |
| 18:55.20 | ajturner | whatever you pass after the iamhere is geocoded |
| 18:55.22 | whereisbot | now I know you're in Zeist, NETHERLANDS [52.099998 x 5.23] |
| 18:55.35 | ajturner | close enough - now ninjas won't storm your house |
| 18:55.39 | LuitvD | .iamhere 52.081,5.22554 Zeist, NETHERLANDS |
| 18:55.42 | whereisbot | now I know you're in Zeist, NETHERLANDS [52.099998 x 5.23] |
| 18:55.46 | LuitvD | :( |
| 18:55.49 | LuitvD | .iamhere 52.081,5.22554 |
| 18:55.54 | whereisbot | now I know you're in , [52.081 x 5.22554] |
| 18:56.02 | Tv | .iamhere 42,42 Noneof, YOURBIZ |
| 18:56.05 | whereisbot | Sorry, I don't know where that is |
| 18:56.11 | LuitvD | hehehe, nice one Tv |
| 18:57.01 | ajturner | well, the interesting thing is that it's not doing something that anyone else couldn't do on their own |
| 18:57.07 | ajturner | any website you visit can track you |
| 18:57.38 | ajturner | well, unless you use tor |
| 18:58.01 | LuitvD | lol, my school sure does need venti-lights |
| 18:58.13 | LuitvD | (a project of the local healthcare department) |
| 18:58.47 | LuitvD | a device measuring the quality of the air in classrooms... |
| 18:59.05 | LuitvD | and our school sure has the worst of all |
| 18:59.34 | burbuja | uuh argentina no tiene puntos de referencia aún :( |
| 18:59.48 | thresh | doubt it, there's a school with nuclear stuff in it |
| 18:59.55 | thresh | seen some news a week ago about it |
| 19:00.26 | LuitvD | in the netherlands? |
| 19:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44acce.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:02.23 | whereisbot | [off] MetaBookfoziS is probably in Heves, HU [47.6 x 20.2833] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.6,20.2833+(MetaBookfoziS) |
| 19:03.03 | MetaBookfoziS | it isn't true:) |
| 19:03.09 | MetaBookfoziS | but yes, heves is in hungary |
| 19:03.16 | MetaBookfoziS | as me:) |
| 19:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko whitedrought (n=Jeff@70.98.72.130) |
| 19:03.50 | whereisbot | [off] whitedrought is probably in Woodinville, WA, US (guessed) [47.7462 x -122.112] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=47.7462,-122.112+(whitedrought) |
| 19:04.15 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 19:04.18 | whereisbot | PhilKC is hiding behind the tapestries (freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 19:04.54 | LuitvD | who is running this whereisbot? |
| 19:05.20 | LuitvD | its annoying... |
| 19:05.41 | whitedrought | not to mention wrong |
| 19:05.47 | LuitvD | lol |
| 19:06.02 | whitedrought | arizona <> washington |
| 19:06.14 | MetaBookfoziS | whereisbot whereisbot |
| 19:06.18 | LuitvD | that's quite a diffrence |
| 19:06.23 | MetaBookfoziS | whereisbot help |
| 19:06.26 | MetaBookfoziS | eh:/ |
| 19:06.37 | whitedrought | /wherisbot |
| 19:06.39 | LuitvD | whereisbot: help |
| 19:06.41 | whereisbot | Hi, I'm whereisbot (a http://highearthorbit.com/project/whereisbot/) |
| 19:06.42 | zipola | .whereisspeak off |
| 19:06.45 | whereisbot | Commands: iamhere, whereami, wherearethey, whereis, whereisresp, whereisspeak |
| 19:06.48 | whereisbot | Try "whereisbot: help command?" if stuck. My owner is ajturner. |
| 19:06.52 | whereisbot | whereis new user announcement turned off |
| 19:06.59 | mey | ... |
| 19:07.08 | burbuja | LuitvD: well in the maps i can't see my ubication, but with the panoramio i can jiji that's /me --> http://www.panoramio.com/photo/800708 |
| 19:07.09 | mey | one very noisy bot |
| 19:07.10 | LuitvD | zipola: good one |
| 19:07.17 | zipola | Thank my channel logs. |
| 19:07.25 | *** part/#openmoko whitedrought (n=Jeff@70.98.72.130) |
| 19:07.34 | Clint | can you tell it to disconnect now? |
| 19:07.37 | LuitvD | \m/ |
| 19:07.54 | Elrond | whereisbot: whereami |
| 19:08.45 | LuitvD | Elrond: try .whereami |
| 19:08.51 | Elrond | .whereami |
| 19:08.55 | whereisbot | [off] Elrond is probably in (Unknown city), DE (guessed) [ x ] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=,+(Elrond) |
| 19:09.06 | LuitvD | lol |
| 19:09.25 | LuitvD | .wherearethey |
| 19:10.06 | mey | .whereami |
| 19:10.11 | whereisbot | [off] mey is probably in Woburn, MA, US [42.4855 x -71.1552] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=42.4855,-71.1552+(mey) |
| 19:10.15 | zipola | .whereami off |
| 19:10.17 | LuitvD | whereisbot: help whereisresp |
| 19:10.19 | whereisbot | ".whereisresp - bot internals - please don't look, it's embarrasing." |
| 19:10.21 | whereisbot | [off] zipola is probably in (Unknown city), EU (guessed) [ x ] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=,+(zipola) |
| 19:10.33 | LuitvD | .whereisresp |
| 19:10.41 | zipola | Someone needs to kill that bot. |
| 19:10.48 | mey | where is an op? |
| 19:10.56 | *** join/#openmoko bipolar (n=bflong@146.145.26.91) |
| 19:10.58 | zipola | I mean, it is quite annoying. |
| 19:11.19 | Elrond | .whereis Morgaine |
| 19:11.23 | whereisbot | [off] Morgaine is probably in (Unknown City?), XX [ x ] http://maps.google.com/maps?q=,+(Morgaine) |
| 19:12.03 | *** part/#openmoko burbuja (i=c850ce04@gateway/web/cgi-irc/linuxpreview.org/x-c6745506e4710dd7) |
| 19:12.34 | *** part/#openmoko marcfiu (n=mef@aegis.CS.Princeton.EDU) |
| 19:12.50 | Elrond | apt: Feed whereisbot and get it out. |
| 19:12.52 | apt | ACTION Takes and get it out., hands it to a profesional 5 star restaurant staff, who expertly shove and get it out. down whereisbot's throat then throws whereisbot out into the back alley with the rest of the trash. |
| 19:15.53 | LuitvD | Elrond: can apt kick whereisbot? :P |
| 19:16.06 | ajturner | .whereisspeak off |
| 19:16.09 | whereisbot | whereis new user announcement turned off |
| 19:16.14 | LuitvD | ajturner: already done |
| 19:16.15 | ajturner | iz quiet |
| 19:16.50 | ajturner | it was there to amuse the bored LuitvD |
| 19:16.59 | LuitvD | ajturner: ah, right... |
| 19:17.22 | ajturner | apt_ , now now, no need to beat up on whereisbot like some thug |
| 19:17.43 | ajturner | it was just doing it's assigned, menial task of locating you in it's cute, pink, targeting icon |
| 19:19.46 | *** part/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 19:20.12 | Elrond | counter |
| 19:20.12 | aloril | source: a day 16:39:47 (1.694 days); P0: 15.694; P1: 46.694; P2: 229.694 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (298) |
| 19:20.19 | LuitvD | strike! |
| 19:20.20 | robtaylor | koen: do you know if openmoko will be EABI? |
| 19:21.15 | Elrond | BTW: Reading Laf0rge's posting, it seems, that the main CPU has some control over battery charging?! |
| 19:21.56 | fluffs | robtaylor: depends on how you build the kernel |
| 19:22.05 | fluffs | iirc, the kernel version is new enough to configure for EABI |
| 19:22.23 | robtaylor | fluffs: well, by default? |
| 19:22.25 | LuitvD | eabi? |
| 19:22.41 | fluffs | Elrond: depends on the battery charging circuit... some chips have i2c/spi type control channels, others can be controlled by gpio |
| 19:22.45 | fluffs | robtaylor: dunno about default |
| 19:22.56 | robtaylor | LuitvD: standard arm abi, rather than made up linux arm abi |
| 19:23.12 | fluffs | robtaylor: linux/arm is the old APCS |
| 19:23.36 | fluffs | and i don't understand the compunction to use EABI anyway |
| 19:26.53 | Elrond | fluffs - Well, laf0rge's posting suggests, that the cpu has control over the charging thing. |
| 19:27.37 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 19:29.45 | DukeOfURL | counter |
| 19:29.45 | aloril | source: a day 16:30:14 (1.688 days); P0: 15.688; P1: 46.688; P2: 229.688 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (299) |
| 19:31.40 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 19:32.34 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@200.184.118.132) |
| 19:33.04 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-72-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:34.37 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@86.34.3.192) |
| 19:34.47 | koen | robtaylor: p0 will be oabi, p2 will be eabi |
| 19:34.53 | koen | robtaylor: according to mickeyl |
| 19:35.09 | koen | robtaylor: my neo will be eabi pretty fast as well :) |
| 19:35.11 | Eblis | and p1 ? :) |
| 19:35.51 | koen | no idea on that |
| 19:36.18 | LuitvD | p0 is the device the selected devvers will get right? |
| 19:37.00 | robtaylor | koen: heh, cool :) |
| 19:37.01 | Eblis | about my portable .net port - are you waiting for the new stable release of portable .net before adding it to OE or do you think it's better if there's only one implementation of .Net in OE (Mono) ? |
| 19:38.46 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-171-246.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 19:38.58 | koen | more implementations is better, but I think mono is the way to go |
| 19:39.10 | koen | robtaylor: that's why I asked for an eabi agpsd on the list :) |
| 19:40.56 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 19:41.28 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-19-89.media.mit.edu) |
| 19:41.56 | mey | is there going to be an emulation environment? |
| 19:42.06 | thresh | ...linux? |
| 19:42.28 | LuitvD | qemu? |
| 19:42.29 | koen | what would you want in an 'emulation environment'? |
| 19:42.58 | *** join/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:43.05 | mey | koen, something that can simulate liminitations of the phone, tapi, and interaction |
| 19:43.28 | koen | you still won't have a 300dpi touchscreen no matter what emulation you throw at it |
| 19:44.00 | so_solid_moo | eh, run the software in black and white |
| 19:44.06 | koen | nor a gsm modem |
| 19:44.11 | so_solid_moo | then scale it down onto a 16bit grayscale :D |
| 19:44.26 | thresh | and emulate gps with gmaps |
| 19:45.02 | mey | is the touchscreen multitouch? |
| 19:46.10 | robtaylor | wel, lets hope mickey et al will be cool with us integrating it all into OE :) |
| 19:47.11 | koen | robtaylor: mickeyl should be doing 'mtn commit ; mtn push' tomorrow :) |
| 19:47.25 | robtaylor | rock :) |
| 19:47.25 | thresh | mtn? |
| 19:47.36 | thresh | m...mercurial? |
| 19:47.43 | robtaylor | tr2x: yep |
| 19:47.49 | thresh | oh. |
| 19:47.56 | robtaylor | oope, s/tr2x/thresh/ |
| 19:48.01 | thresh | nevermind :) |
| 19:48.16 | koen | not mercurial |
| 19:48.16 | robtaylor | though i so wish it was in git instead |
| 19:48.19 | thresh | monotone. |
| 19:48.21 | robtaylor | mercurial is so slow |
| 19:48.23 | thresh | yeah, me too. |
| 19:48.40 | robtaylor | oh, yeah =) |
| 19:48.41 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44acce.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 19:48.42 | koen | mercurial servers crash if the client does ctrl-c during transmit |
| 19:48.49 | robtaylor | koen: nice :) |
| 19:49.09 | robtaylor | git is teh coolest, just incredibly hard for new users |
| 19:49.20 | tr2x | robtaylor: no problem, you just woke me up ;-) |
| 19:49.33 | robtaylor | tr2x: sorry! |
| 19:49.34 | MetaBookfoziS | ~counter |
| 19:50.03 | LuitvD | strike! and a miss |
| 19:50.08 | LuitvD | ... |
| 19:50.13 | LuitvD | try without the ~ |
| 19:50.15 | LuitvD | :P |
| 19:52.42 | *** join/#openmoko supmork (n=supmork@host-84-222-30-55.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:52.47 | MetaBookfoziS | counter |
| 19:52.47 | aloril | source: a day 16:07:12 (1.672 days); P0: 15.672; P1: 46.672; P2: 229.672 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (300) |
| 19:52.50 | MetaBookfoziS | brr |
| 19:57.22 | *** join/#openmoko greghunt (n=greg@88-108-72-56.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 19:57.38 | *** part/#openmoko edistar (n=edwinloc@ip503ddd09.speed.planet.nl) |
| 19:59.14 | *** part/#openmoko supmork (n=supmork@host-84-222-30-55.cust-adsl.tiscali.it) |
| 19:59.45 | *** join/#openmoko LuitvD (n=LuitvD@sd5116826.adsl.wanadoo.nl) |
| 20:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko RevTig (n=Tig@82.153.215.237) |
| 20:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag- (n=filip@c211-30-185-177.artrmn2.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 20:07.03 | koen | robtaylor: any sample code for pixbuf scaling? |
| 20:09.37 | koen | robtaylor: I have jorn's timetext.c as an example |
| 20:09.41 | *** part/#openmoko avm (n=avm@jabber.hst.ru) |
| 20:09.52 | koen | s/example/skeleton/ |
| 20:19.45 | robtaylor | koen: hmm, its just a single line |
| 20:19.46 | robtaylor | <PROTECTED> |
| 20:20.02 | robtaylor | pixbuf is orginial, ret is the the scaled one |
| 20:20.47 | robtaylor | koen: you got devhelp up? |
| 20:21.07 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Z5596.z.pppool.de) |
| 20:21.21 | robtaylor | koen: to load in an image into a pixbuf |
| 20:21.22 | koen | nope |
| 20:21.41 | robtaylor | koen: get it up, its very useful when codeing gtk :) |
| 20:21.54 | robtaylor | koen: you suck! |
| 20:22.16 | koen | does gdk_pixbuf_from_file exist? |
| 20:22.22 | robtaylor | gdk_pixbuf_loader_new to create a new pixbuf loader |
| 20:22.46 | robtaylor | oh i mean |
| 20:22.46 | robtaylor | gdk_pixbuf_loader_new |
| 20:22.50 | robtaylor | gnng |
| 20:22.54 | robtaylor | gdk_pixbuf_new_from_file |
| 20:23.09 | robtaylor | don't even need to use a pixbuf-loader |
| 20:25.08 | Elrond | Morgaine - I've fixed laser cooling, it's now using a license free injection coil. :-) |
| 20:25.48 | *** join/#openmoko Magon (n=Magon@213.155.227.226) |
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| 20:34.21 | robtaylor | koen: if you want me to check over your code, or anything other help, just ping :) |
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| 20:37.11 | koen | robtaylor: do you have an OE checkout handy? |
| 20:38.04 | robtaylor | koen: unfortunatly not, i dont have enough free disk on this machine |
| 20:38.21 | robtaylor | koen: that reminds me, i need to get an OE build machine up and ready, i;ll do that now :) |
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| 20:45.52 | koen | robtaylor: http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/gtk+/pixops-test/pixops-test.c |
| 20:47.34 | ajturner | it would be great for someone to publish an vmware image of a OE-setup |
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| 20:51.11 | MacNorth | counter |
| 20:51.12 | aloril | source: a day 15:08:48 (1.631 days); P0: 15.631; P1: 46.631; P2: 229.631 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (301) |
| 20:51.22 | koen | robtaylor: do you spot any obvious errors? |
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| 21:22.43 | _inca | does anyone have a rough calendar date for this to hit the market? |
| 21:23.32 | koen | counter |
| 21:23.32 | aloril | source: a day 14:36:27 (1.609 days); P0: 15.609; P1: 46.609; P2: 229.609 (long: "/msg aloril counter?") (302) |
| 21:24.45 | koen | _inca: 229.6 days |
| 21:25.15 | koen | robtaylor: my test only succeeds in taking 100% cpu and locking up the machine :( |
| 21:26.39 | _inca | cool |
| 21:30.20 | CM | _inca: That's the official launch date |
| 21:30.48 | CM | _inca: about one and a half month until developers can buy it |
| 21:31.09 | _inca | interesting |
| 21:31.18 | _inca | how much? |
| 21:31.24 | koen | $350 |
| 21:31.24 | SpeedEvil | $350 |
| 21:31.28 | thresh | not euro? |
| 21:31.31 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 21:31.32 | SpeedEvil | dollards |
| 21:31.36 | SpeedEvil | ^s |
| 21:31.39 | thresh | oh nice! |
| 21:31.49 | _inca | and what carrier(s) are onboard? |
| 21:31.53 | SpeedEvil | SIM only. |
| 21:31.56 | SpeedEvil | So no carrier. |
| 21:32.02 | SpeedEvil | Any GSM carrier. |
| 21:32.31 | koen | ~change 350 usd to rru |
| 21:32.41 | koen | hmmm |
| 21:32.41 | thresh | hehe |
| 21:32.46 | thresh | ~change 350 usd to rur |
| 21:32.51 | koen | I guess rru isn't roubles |
| 21:33.01 | thresh | ~change 350$ to rur |
| 21:33.08 | SpeedEvil | ~change 350$ to rbl |
| 21:33.09 | thresh | oh well, i'd better use google directly. |
| 21:33.18 | koen | ~change 350 usd to rur |
| 21:33.28 | thresh | 350 U.S. dollars = 9 231.215 Russian rubles |
| 21:33.58 | koen | ~change 350 usd to rub |
| 21:34.10 | thresh | heh, byelorussian ones. |
| 21:34.22 | Clint | that's messed up |
| 21:34.39 | thresh | ~change 350 usd to rus |
| 21:34.47 | thresh | heh |
| 21:36.23 | Magon | ~change 350 usd to eu |
| 21:36.32 | thresh | :D |
| 21:36.43 | Magon | ~change 350 usd to euro |
| 21:36.56 | _inca | looking pretty sparse... http://www.rentcell.com/coverage-map-usa-gsm.htm |
| 21:37.08 | Magon | ~change 350 usd to czk |
| 21:37.19 | Magon | great |
| 21:37.23 | SpeedEvil | ~change 350 usd to usd |
| 21:37.32 | SpeedEvil | Woo! |
| 21:37.42 | Elrond | ~change 350 usd to eur |
| 21:37.50 | Clint | ~change 350 usd to rouble |
| 21:38.02 | SpeedEvil | Still ~170 quid. |
| 21:38.26 | SpeedEvil | Is it just defaulting to that, when it can't find any other? |
| 21:38.53 | SpeedEvil | ~change 350 usd to qqq |
| 21:41.23 | _inca | bots are evil |
| 21:41.37 | *** join/#openmoko giggls (i=sven@irc.fuchsschwanzdomain.de) |
| 21:44.02 | loufoque | 350 USD makes 500 EUR according to Microsoft |
| 21:46.21 | giggls | With electronic devices I usually calculate with an approximate exchange Rate of 1:1 over here in Germany |
| 21:46.44 | SpeedEvil | Much stuff is still ~30% more in the UK than US. |
| 21:46.52 | SpeedEvil | It depends really. |
| 21:46.55 | SpeedEvil | Not all. |
| 21:49.29 | giggls | SpeedEvil: given the real exchange Rate between USD and EUR this looks like a realistic rate for germany as well - its EU after all |
| 21:51.36 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 21:53.18 | DukeOfURL | It's because of VAT that your prices are higher. |
| 21:53.37 | SpeedEvil | It's not solely that. |
| 21:54.35 | DukeOfURL | I was filling my tank on the autobahn one day, doing mental arithmetic and currency conversion, and clicked off at 1/2 tank, $75. |
| 21:55.04 | SpeedEvil | Fuel duties are way higher. |
| 21:55.08 | giggls | DukeOfURL: Fule Taxes != VAT |
| 21:55.17 | *** join/#openmoko tg_ (n=tg@cube0.sch.bme.hu) |
| 21:55.21 | SpeedEvil | Petrol costs 80p/litre or so. |
| 21:55.23 | DukeOfURL | Ok then, UK taxes. |
| 21:55.46 | SpeedEvil | Which is what - 3.70 or so per american litre. |
| 21:55.57 | SpeedEvil | or $7.30 or so. |
| 21:56.01 | SpeedEvil | (us) |
| 21:56.05 | SpeedEvil | per gallon. |
| 21:56.21 | NAiL | how much is a gallon? ;) |
| 21:56.29 | DukeOfURL | I filled up yesterday at $1.89, .56 was tax. |
| 21:56.44 | NAiL | ~change 11 NOK to USD |
| 21:56.44 | SpeedEvil | A US gallon is 4.05 litres IIRC |
| 21:56.54 | SpeedEvil | A UK gallon is 4.54l. |
| 21:57.16 | NAiL | I pay 1.77USD/Litre |
| 21:57.16 | NAiL | nowadays |
| 21:57.35 | so_solid_moo | http://freespace.virgin.net/john.cletheroe/uk/petrol.htm |
| 21:57.39 | DukeOfURL | The US sales tax is charged only to the end user. As I understand, VAT is charged at each stage of the manufacturing process. |
| 21:57.54 | SpeedEvil | Err - no. |
| 21:57.55 | so_solid_moo | DukeOfURL: that's not quite correct |
| 21:58.06 | SpeedEvil | VAT is charged on the difference between buy and sell price. |
| 21:58.12 | DukeOfURL | That's why I said "as I understand" |
| 21:58.21 | SpeedEvil | So if you buy at 9 pounds and sell at 10, you pay VAT on the 1 pound. |
| 21:58.43 | SpeedEvil | It _totals_ 17.5% across the whole supply chain. |
| 21:59.04 | SpeedEvil | Till it hits the end customer who pays it. |
| 22:00.37 | DukeOfURL | I lived in London for two years, and I came home because of taxes. Taxes on the health insurance I purchased, taxes on the car allowance, etc. |
| 22:01.22 | DukeOfURL | I loved London, and would have liked to stay. And I believe Englanders are probably the nicest people in the world. |
| 22:01.34 | DukeOfURL | But your taxes suck big time. |
| 22:01.44 | fluffs | DukeOfURL: UK you charge vat to the customer, and you pay vat on anything you buy. you claim the vat back from the tax office |
| 22:02.33 | DukeOfURL | Yes, have you ever tried that. I had 10K GBP in hotel bills that I tried to claim. After five years I', still waiting. |
| 22:02.49 | DukeOfURL | I'm |
| 22:03.22 | *** part/#openmoko _inca (i=inca@gateway/tor/x-3e72c8b830d61af2) |
| 22:03.44 | fluffs | yeah, although i was suprised when i got a refund the next year for overpaid taxes i didn't realise i'd overpaid... work miscalculated and didn't get my tax bracket right for the first three months i was there |
| 22:06.06 | *** join/#openmoko merriam_ (n=merriam@84-12-152-141.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 22:06.36 | fluffs | hmm, no merge yet... |
| 22:07.43 | *** join/#openmoko merriam (n=merriam@84-12-152-141.dyn.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 22:08.31 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: How works the whole merge process on a-l-k? I've seen no patches from you russel could merge. No public review via ml, just patch tracker? |
| 22:13.39 | fluffs | stefan_schmidt: big stuff gets sent to linux-arm-kernel for review, otherwise generally the smaller stuff goes to rmk's patch tracker |
| 22:14.38 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: ok |
| 22:14.48 | fluffs | the list is subscriber only |
| 22:15.05 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: patch tracker list? |
| 22:15.13 | fluffs | no, there isn't one of those |
| 22:15.19 | LuitvD | i'll be back tomorrow :) |
| 22:15.27 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: ah, I'm already on a-l-k |
| 22:15.34 | fluffs | post patches, people will comment |
| 22:15.46 | fluffs | if you have a url, i'll view after pixxa |
| 22:15.49 | fluffs | pizza even |
| 22:16.23 | fluffs | the nice thing about the patch tracker is that at least you know at least rmk is going to look at em, even if he just says no |
| 22:16.28 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@ppp137-76.lns3.mel6.internode.on.net) |
| 22:16.30 | fluffs | anywya, shower, pizza, patche |
| 22:16.50 | stefan_schmidt | ~bon appetit |
| 22:16.59 | apt | rumour has it, bon appetit is smacznego. Guten Appetit. Eet Smakelijk. God Appetitt. Buon Appetito. Buen apetito Bom Apetite. buen apetito Smaklig måltid!. Hyvää ruokahalua. Bo Proveito |
| 22:17.04 | darmou | this is what openmoko should be running on http://news.com.com/2300-1035_3-6158987-1.html |
| 22:17.04 | stefan_schmidt | ~bon appettit |
| 22:17.06 | darmou | I love the slide out keyboard |
| 22:17.30 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: It's not ready for inclusion now, but if you like you can take a look: http://www.openezx.org/download/patches-2.6.16-2.6.16.13-ezx8.tar.bz2 |
| 22:20.11 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: Once I understand the genirq there will even be a patch to a newer kernel. |
| 22:20.13 | stefan_schmidt | It's time that lectures stop for this semester. Need more time for hacking. |
| 22:23.00 | *** join/#openmoko summatusmentis (n=summatus@72.168.202.219) |
| 22:23.20 | summatusmentis | why was gsm chosen over cdma? |
| 22:23.24 | *** join/#openmoko Robot101 (n=robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk) |
| 22:23.28 | SpeedEvil | Much more common. |
| 22:23.43 | SpeedEvil | cdma is only used in some third world backwaters. |
| 22:23.46 | stefan_schmidt | summatusmentis: cdma is US only and hopefully dead soon. :) |
| 22:23.52 | summatusmentis | SpeedEvil: in the US? or worldwide? |
| 22:24.01 | SpeedEvil | GSM is essentially everywhere. |
| 22:24.01 | summatusmentis | bummer |
| 22:24.01 | stefan_schmidt | summatusmentis: The world uses GSM |
| 22:24.12 | SpeedEvil | CDMA is even being turned off in parts of the states. |
| 22:24.18 | summatusmentis | so there's no likelyhood that there'll be an openmoko version for cdma huh? |
| 22:24.22 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 22:24.47 | SpeedEvil | And with the lowering volume of CDMA, fewer phones will be offered for it in the future. |
| 22:25.29 | stefan_schmidt | summatusmentis: cdma is a complete different tech. Not easy to change. |
| 22:25.47 | summatusmentis | figures, as soon as I lock into a new 2 year contract, they start talking about the neo |
| 22:25.49 | summatusmentis | :-/ |
| 22:26.09 | stefan_schmidt | :( |
| 22:26.09 | summatusmentis | well, and the iPhone for that matter, but I'm more excited about the neo |
| 22:26.23 | SpeedEvil | :( |
| 22:26.50 | summatusmentis | bummer, alright, looks like I'll be waiting two years, unless I can convince my parents that I'll get better reception on GSM |
| 22:27.23 | summatusmentis | that is, when I move away for college |
| 22:28.05 | summatusmentis | thanks |
| 22:29.50 | *** join/#openmoko Harlekin (n=Harlekin@mnch-4db01703.pool.einsundeins.de) |
| 22:31.16 | darmou | Australia used to have a cdma network but it's now moving to 3g gsm technolgies, just when the iphone and neo are going back to 2.5g lol back to the future ... |
| 22:32.24 | stefan_schmidt | v2 will hopefully have 3G |
| 22:32.24 | SpeedEvil | 3G is comparatively expensive electronically, and with power. |
| 22:32.31 | darmou | more to the point hopefully it will have wireless every other phone in this category has wireless except the neo |
| 22:32.34 | jannu | stefan_schmidt: what for, if I may be so bold to ask |
| 22:32.40 | *** part/#openmoko Xentac (n=jchu@archlinux/developer/Xentac) |
| 22:32.47 | SpeedEvil | darmou: that's not actually true. |
| 22:33.00 | SpeedEvil | Go and look at the 'sim free' phones at the $350 price point. |
| 22:33.13 | SpeedEvil | Every one has a camera (pretty much) and bluetooth. |
| 22:33.22 | SpeedEvil | Wireless is not that common. |
| 22:33.31 | summatusmentis | a lot of the US is getting 3G, or EDGE(cdma based?) |
| 22:33.41 | stefan_schmidt | jannu: Ideally I don't like to care where I work. Mail, web, ssh, scm, file transfer, ... |
| 22:33.52 | SpeedEvil | Of course, $350 has not been said to be the definative final price. |
| 22:34.08 | jannu | and wireless is even worse than 3g in terms of hardware price and power consumption |
| 22:34.08 | stefan_schmidt | jannu: I know even 3G is not very good for this, but it's a start. |
| 22:34.16 | darmou | I was thinking about the new breed of phones such as the iphone or http://news.com.com/2300-1035_3-6158987-1.html or the prada |
| 22:34.17 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 22:34.54 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 22:34.55 | jannu | stefan_schmidt: if you use the 3g phone as a modem for a laptop, it's actually almost as good as wifi in my experience |
| 22:35.13 | stefan_schmidt | jannu: But I don't have wifi everywhere. |
| 22:35.41 | darmou | jannu problem is price, if you are at home with own wireless network why pay exorbitant bandwidth prices |
| 22:36.07 | darmou | jannu hence my stickytape idea lol |
| 22:36.07 | stefan_schmidt | darmou: You can get 3G flat in germany |
| 22:36.19 | jannu | darmou: if you are at home with own wireless network why do anything high bandwidth with your phone? |
| 22:36.30 | darmou | not in Australia it's very expensive here |
| 22:36.33 | stefan_schmidt | Smooth switching between wifi and 3G is also fine |
| 22:36.42 | jannu | darmou: I mean, you have a computer as well, right? |
| 22:36.48 | stefan_schmidt | darmou: ok, that's a problem then |
| 22:37.06 | darmou | jannu things like listening to internet radio stations ro VOIP is what I would be using it for |
| 22:37.31 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway, I will stay without 3G until v2. :) |
| 22:37.40 | jannu | darmou: ok, yeah. those are pretty good use cases |
| 22:38.17 | jannu | darmou: and will both cost an arm and a leg if you can't get a flat rate data contract |
| 22:39.33 | jannu | the only point of edge is internet radio and the only point of 3g is voip |
| 22:39.39 | darmou | jannu I did hear that 3g hutchinson was going to be offering a VOIP service so if they did that depending on cost that would be one app fixed |
| 22:40.56 | darmou | I think there was some info that the reason why no wireless was because of drivers is that right? |
| 22:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko suspence (n=spencer@208.187.196.34) |
| 22:41.28 | darmou | I thought there were some opensource drivers for wireless but perhaps not the right kind? shrug |
| 22:42.09 | summatusmentis | darmou: probably not for chips that are small enough... |
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| 23:09.04 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: ppp works stable now on the sx1? |
| 23:12.10 | pjz_ | what's an sx1? |
| 23:13.09 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: Siemens SX1 phone. Normally runs symbian, but now even runs linux. |
| 23:13.23 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: Hardware is old but cheap. |
| 23:13.40 | pjz_ | interesting. |
| 23:14.02 | pjz_ | I've got a moto A780 and am eagerly awaiting you guys getting full functionality out of it =) |
| 23:14.17 | stefan_schmidt | Not sure if the hardware is capable for a fat openmoko framework. Perhaps openmoko-light. |
| 23:14.34 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: heh, we are working on it. |
| 23:15.01 | pjz_ | is the only way to reflash it still the stupid windows-only reflasher? |
| 23:15.18 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: Next steps are reliable at stuff (sms, voice) and openmoko port afterwards. |
| 23:15.35 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: You can use ezxflash. |
| 23:15.49 | pjz_ | if I can reload the A780 without booting windoze then I can help play betatester at least |
| 23:16.30 | pjz_ | what's broken with it? |
| 23:17.10 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: chip gets recognized but not fully working. I don't have the message at hand. |
| 23:17.21 | pjz_ | I'm in the middle of putting a new ubuntu load on this box so I can set up an openmoko dev environment - maybe I should set up an openezx one too |
| 23:17.42 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: Thanks, once we have something useful for beta test I make a call on the ml |
| 23:18.25 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: Only if you like kernel dev. We hope to use openmoko for all userland stuff. |
| 23:18.49 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: Ideally openezx would only care about system level. |
| 23:20.34 | pjz_ | yeah, I've done some minor kernel dev in the past (on the Agenda VR3, if you know what that is) |
| 23:21.03 | stefan_schmidt | hmm, never heard. |
| 23:21.21 | pjz_ | and yeah, I like the idea of making openmoko work on openezx |
| 23:21.50 | pjz_ | it was a linux based PDA about, uh... 5 yrs ago? something like that. |
| 23:22.08 | stefan_schmidt | Only problem can be limited hardware. 48MB ram is not that much. We shall see. |
| 23:23.35 | pjz_ | yah - maybe why it will only run 1 java app at a time right now =) |
| 23:24.04 | stefan_schmidt | ah, Agenda VR3 was a linux pda |
| 23:24.22 | pjz_ | yah |
| 23:24.51 | pjz_ | talk about limited hardware - 8MB flash, no expansion slot |
| 23:25.14 | stefan_schmidt | ups |
| 23:25.18 | pjz_ | oh, hey, does the Neo1973 have a stylus slot? |
| 23:25.21 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 23:25.26 | SpeedEvil | No stylus or slot. |
| 23:25.31 | pjz_ | innnnteresting |
| 23:25.41 | SpeedEvil | Maybe version 2. |
| 23:25.45 | SpeedEvil | Who knows. |
| 23:25.55 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: You're sure with no stylus? |
| 23:26.00 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 23:26.07 | cjb | huh, I hadn't realised that. |
| 23:26.12 | pjz_ | one feature that was quite useful on the VR3 was a 'stylus present' switch in the stylus slot |
| 23:26.15 | SpeedEvil | Well - nobody has mentioned the existance of one anywhere on the mailing list. |
| 23:26.35 | SpeedEvil | And I've never seen mention elsewhere. |
| 23:26.46 | SpeedEvil | Or piccys. |
| 23:26.52 | stefan_schmidt | hmm |
| 23:27.11 | stefan_schmidt | We see when the p0 phones are out |
| 23:27.15 | stefan_schmidt | hi mickeyl |
| 23:27.29 | mickeyl | hey stefan_schmidtf |
| 23:27.30 | SpeedEvil | That's one thing I'd like now, and I can't see any reason not to do it. A lot of pics, even without it working, for hardware fitting-on reasons. |
| 23:27.36 | stefan_schmidt | pjz_: What was the switch used for? |
| 23:27.40 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: how's your openezx presentation progressing?` |
| 23:27.49 | SpeedEvil | Turn off without it present, and it starts to cry. |
| 23:28.02 | *** join/#openmoko nnpigg1 (n=nnpiggy@qiqinebs.chi.il.us) |
| 23:28.11 | pjz_ | stefan_schmidt: hints to the phone on how to behave: if the stylus gets taken out, turn on the lcd. if it gets put back, go to sleep. |
| 23:28.30 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Don't remember me. Have a test at staturday. Need to translate, add, review and upload it next week. |
| 23:29.45 | pjz_ | oh yah, is the openmoko source out yet? |
| 23:29.53 | stefan_schmidt | tomorrow |
| 23:30.00 | stefan_schmidt | lunch GMT+1 |
| 23:30.42 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) |
| 23:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko bezlemin (n=bezlemin@cpe-72-179-41-19.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 23:31.38 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: if you want me to review, i'll take a look |
| 23:31.54 | mickeyl | (after translation) |
| 23:31.55 | mickeyl | :) |
| 23:32.09 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Thanks, I came back to you. |
| 23:32.25 | mickeyl | okik |
| 23:33.30 | *** join/#openmoko pbryan (n=pbryan@S010600095baae0ff.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 23:33.51 | pbryan | Has dev version of OpenMoko been released yet? |
| 23:34.05 | mickeyl | hehe |
| 23:34.19 | stefan_schmidt | pbryan: Next two days |
| 23:34.34 | pbryan | Thanks. |
| 23:34.46 | stefan_schmidt | But hey, anybody here knowing a Motorola manager? |
| 23:34.53 | stefan_schmidt | heh |
| 23:36.23 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: btw, we need a openmoko developer meeting on a rock in a snowboarder village. ;) |
| 23:36.46 | stefan_schmidt | I really need a snowbaord week this year. |
| 23:36.49 | *** part/#openmoko pbryan (n=pbryan@S010600095baae0ff.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 23:37.16 | pavelm | stefan: sorry for long pause. Watching interesting film :-) |
| 23:37.37 | pavelm | stefan: No, I was not able to get gprs working in stable way. Waiting for openmoko now :-) |
| 23:38.07 | mickeyl | not yet |
| 23:38.11 | pavelm | stefan: it needs debugging multiplexor (probably), and multiplexor is non-standard, anyway :-( |
| 23:38.18 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: You mean it would be useable on the SX1? |
| 23:38.39 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: i'll be in Skiwelt Amade right after FOSDEM |
| 23:38.40 | mickeyl | :D |
| 23:38.53 | mickeyl | come join us ;) |
| 23:39.27 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: moto mux is even non standard. :( |
| 23:39.48 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Oh, how much I would love doing this. :) |
| 23:40.32 | stefan_schmidt | ~lart less money in my pocket |
| 23:41.05 | mickeyl | which is not that much better ;) |
| 23:41.05 | stefan_schmidt | Right, that also bad |
| 23:41.18 | stefan_schmidt | s/that/that is/ |
| 23:41.47 | mickeyl | well, if all turns out, i'll be working 3 to 4 hours a day for June and July |
| 23:41.56 | mickeyl | that will be a hell of a summer |
| 23:42.04 | stefan_schmidt | sounds nice |
| 23:42.16 | stefan_schmidt | book or other project? |
| 23:42.23 | mickeyl | the book. |
| 23:42.29 | mickeyl | got a contract w/ opensourcepress |
| 23:42.32 | mickeyl | :) |
| 23:42.34 | pavelm | stefan: parts of multiplexer would probably be usable, but sx1 seems to have some kind of weird power management stuff in it. |
| 23:42.36 | stefan_schmidt | congrats |
| 23:42.38 | mickeyl | thanks |
| 23:42.48 | mickeyl | it's like the best publisher for this kind of stuff |
| 23:42.51 | *** join/#openmoko c45713 (i=glenn@b072b.studby.ntnu.no) |
| 23:43.02 | stefan_schmidt | They translate into english for you, right? |
| 23:43.18 | pavelm | stefan: Unfortunately... with 16MB ram and no touchscreen... sx1 is likely to be bad match for openmoko. |
| 23:43.18 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: that's the plan yeah. I'll write the german issue and eventually they handle the translated issue |
| 23:43.37 | mickeyl | pavel machek? |
| 23:43.41 | pavelm | stefan: At least upper layers of openmoko, anyway. |
| 23:43.47 | pavelm | mickey: Yep, hi1 |
| 23:43.52 | mickeyl | pavelm: cheers. nice to find you in here :) |
| 23:43.56 | pavelm | (Hi! -- sorry, bad shift key). |
| 23:44.19 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: right, parts of the moto mux are also useable. Smells like an addition to the ts07.10 line descipline Harald has written. Can't wait to take a look at the code. |
| 23:44.33 | pavelm | mickey: Nice to meet you, too. Found no openmoko in the morning mail, so I went to irc to find out what is going on. |
| 23:44.58 | mickeyl | pavelm: hehe, yes. very sorry about the delay, but we're working as fast as we can |
| 23:45.15 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: phase 0 phone? |
| 23:45.19 | pavelm | stefan: Yes; it is 07.10 with some extensions, so harald's code will definitely be useful. |
| 23:45.31 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: same here |
| 23:45.32 | pavelm | stefan: I hoped for one ;-). |
| 23:45.58 | pavelm | I hear the discussion of "no stylus"... |
| 23:46.01 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: The Moto E2 has 48 ram and also no touchscreen. |
| 23:46.16 | pavelm | ...how is text entry supposed to work without one? |
| 23:46.20 | mickeyl | ? there is a stylus. |
| 23:46.26 | pavelm | stefan: E2 looks like nice toy. |
| 23:46.41 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: We need a version for non touchscreen phones on a long term anyway |
| 23:46.41 | pavelm | mickey: Aha, so I misunderstood. So it was only "no switch that stylus is present"? |
| 23:46.52 | mickeyl | likely :) |
| 23:47.02 | pavelm | stefan: Yes, I guess so. |
| 23:47.30 | mickeyl | the Neo comes with a fancy stylus. there is just no slot in the phone for it to rest :/ |
| 23:47.30 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: Yeap, E2 is pretty neat. At least for you touchscreen hater. ;) |
| 23:47.31 | pavelm | stefan: 16MB may be barely enough to run X after some stripping down, so... |
| 23:47.41 | pavelm | mickey: Really? Stylus but no place to hide it? |
| 23:47.54 | pavelm | mickey: That's showstopper, no? |
| 23:48.03 | mickeyl | heh |
| 23:48.06 | mickeyl | no showstopper |
| 23:48.10 | mickeyl | but a misdesign |
| 23:48.10 | mickeyl | yes |
| 23:48.51 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: The whole case is a, hmm, not that good design. :) |
| 23:48.51 | pavelm | stefan: I have machines with touchscreen, I'm not _hating_ them pers se. But.. I like my phone small, and with tactile feedback. |
| 23:48.59 | xFallenAngel | make sure reordering a stylus is not that expensive, many people will lose it and be annoyed if its too expensive |
| 23:49.04 | xFallenAngel | at least for v1 |
| 23:49.20 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: some love it, some hate it... |
| 23:49.23 | pavelm | mickey: v2 is the first version that is going to be sold "for real"? |
| 23:49.33 | mickeyl | pavelm: no, that's v1/phase 2 |
| 23:49.43 | mickeyl | v2 is the thing that comes after Neo1973 |
| 23:49.50 | mickeyl | completely new hardware |
| 23:49.51 | SuN | I like touchscreens a lot, I just wish Motorola's EZX was more finger-friendly. |
| 23:50.15 | pavelm | xfallen: I've seen pen with stylus selectable. If you have no slot for stylus, anyway, you can just use your pen that way. |
| 23:50.26 | pavelm | ...or I can use my zaurus to store stylus, I guess. |
| 23:50.46 | SuN | The entire point of a smartphone is so you can leave your PDA at home :P |
| 23:51.04 | pavelm | mickey: Neo1973 is same hardware that is supposed to run windows, no? |
| 23:51.08 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: I think both input methods have their group of lover on cellphones. Keys are faster, but ts is more flexible imho |
| 23:51.51 | pavelm | mickey: I think that windows users _will_ need place to store their stylus. |
| 23:51.52 | SuN | Keys aren't faster if the interface is smart enough. |
| 23:52.10 | mickeyl | pavelm: that was the initial plan, but it was put on hold |
| 23:52.12 | pavelm | stefan: touchscreen is nice from programmers point of view; it is not very different from mouse at least. |
| 23:52.14 | SuN | It makes a lot of sense in screens where you have to select stuff from larger lists, like the address book. |
| 23:52.20 | pavelm | mickey: Aha, ok. |
| 23:52.51 | pavelm | stefan: But try using touchscreen while sitting on the horse -- preferably moving horse. |
| 23:52.55 | SpeedEvil | a big problem with lists and fingers, or vibrating users is hard. |
| 23:53.01 | pavelm | stefan: All touchscreen designs I know needed two hands to operate. |
| 23:53.13 | pjz_ | mickeyl: it should have a 'presence' switch too, I'm sure you have some spare gpio pins =) |
| 23:53.13 | stefan_schmidt | pavelm: Indeed |
| 23:53.23 | SuN | Well it shouldn't be _too_ small, of course. |
| 23:53.23 | mickeyl | pjz_: ;) |
| 23:53.50 | pavelm | mickey: I hope "no windows version" does not mean "price is going up through the roof" :-) |
| 23:53.53 | pjz_ | and I have to flip it oven even |
| 23:53.56 | pjz_ | open even |
| 23:54.22 | SuN | But Motorola sabotaged a lot of things regarding finger use. |
| 23:54.23 | jannu | pjz_: i was thinking of a presence clickwheel earlier |
| 23:54.46 | pavelm | sun/pjz: but doing that properly would mean designing interface in quite strange way, no/ |
| 23:54.59 | jannu | pjz_: with 4 or 5 colour coded, configurable positions |
| 23:54.59 | SuN | Not strange, just.. appropriate. |
| 23:55.05 | pavelm | ...like all active areas big and in the bottom part of the phone so they can be reached with finger holding the phone. |
| 23:55.06 | mickeyl | pavelm: no. |
| 23:55.16 | mickeyl | it just means internal reallocation of resources |
| 23:55.27 | mickeyl | nothing to really worry about |
| 23:55.51 | SuN | Active areas should indeed be large enough... but I can easily operate my E680 with my thumb in the places where Motorola intended me to. |
| 23:57.04 | pavelm | mickey: Good... and good luck with the commercial side. |
| 23:57.15 | SuN | The menus are about half a cm high and 2.5cm wide, that's sufficient for me. |
| 23:57.24 | pavelm | sun: okay, I only had a1200 for a short while. |
| 23:57.31 | jannu | there's also the added benefit that making clickable areas larger for thumb input means that you can show more information in each button |
| 23:58.04 | pavelm | sun: compared to nokia 6230, it was pretty much unusable. Bad joystick also played some part... |
| 23:58.11 | jannu | which (properly designed) can make the interface a lot more intuitive |
| 23:58.37 | pavelm | jannu: It also means that interface ends up very different from standard PC interface. |
| 23:58.50 | pavelm | jannu: And at that point you can design |
| 23:58.52 | SuN | I'm not sure how much the A1200 firmware differs from the E680i, but I find it very useful on some occasions, but not so much in others. |
| 23:58.59 | jannu | pavelm: which, in a mobile phone is a good thing |
| 23:59.00 | pavelm | jannu: ...for 0-9*# interface as well :-) |
| 23:59.19 | pavelm | jannu: It means a lot of porting work :-(. |
| 23:59.48 | SuN | The A1200 seems a bit awkward to hold, especially when operating the touchscreen, but I've never touched one so I could be wrong. |
