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| 00:41.20 | Elrond | Night people. |
| 00:41.25 | SpeedEvil | WAve. |
| 00:41.50 | Elrond | *waves* |
| 00:44.12 | paulproteus | count |
| 00:44.22 | paulproteus | Where's that countdown bot? |
| 00:44.32 | paulproteus | counter |
| 00:44.32 | aloril | 2 days 05:15:27 (2.219 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 2 days (30.219 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 days (214.219 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (197) |
| 00:44.36 | paulproteus | That's more like it! |
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| 04:11.41 | SuN | Woa, Windows Mobile 6 has automatic update support. |
| 04:11.50 | SuN | Service providers' wet dream! |
| 04:12.10 | aloril | and FBI/NSA too ;-) |
| 04:12.43 | SuN | High five! :D |
| 04:12.58 | SpeedEvil | Indeed. |
| 04:13.19 | SpeedEvil | 'Click to download a 129Mb update' |
| 04:13.31 | aloril | hmm.. that brings me to one thought: we should not trust service providers NAT, but use our own firewall |
| 04:13.53 | SuN | Actually, I'm watching a set of screenshots, the very first update is > 6000KB. |
| 04:14.03 | SuN | That's quite hefty on a service plan. |
| 04:14.27 | SuN | Data plan even. |
| 04:14.38 | aloril | otherwise they might just turn it off enough for FBI to crack into our phone (in case you haven't kept up to date) |
| 04:15.15 | SuN | Woa, if this is really Windows Mobile... it's really miles behind the competition. |
| 04:16.15 | SuN | This looks like what Motorola has produced in the nineties, only in color. |
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| 05:59.59 | aloril | counter |
| 06:00.00 | aloril | 2 days 00:00:00 (2.000 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 2 days (30.000 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 days (214.000 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (198) |
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| 08:34.05 | xkr47 | gug |
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| 10:13.13 | Eblis | http://www.ddj.com/dept/opensource/197004438?cid=RSSfeed_DDJ_All |
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| 10:23.12 | koen | old news |
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| 10:25.34 | koen | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-devel/2007-February/000286.html |
| 10:25.45 | Morgreet | Eblis: yeah, that was yet another Slashdot dupe |
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| 10:27.06 | Morgreet | They must be totally fried out of their skulls on coke in the Slashdot offices. Just totally incomprehensible. |
| 10:28.36 | Morgreet | koen: interesting. I've not played with pixops, but optimization is fun. |
| 10:29.23 | koen | Opened by Phil Blundell (reporter, points: 5) |
| 10:29.24 | koen | 2002-08-13 09:50 UTC [reply] |
| 10:29.33 | koen | over 4 and a half years old |
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| 10:32.21 | morricone | counter |
| 10:32.21 | aloril | a day 19:27:38 (1.811 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.811 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.811 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (199) |
| 10:32.52 | koen | heh |
| 10:32.54 | koen | "Changes submitted for bug 90621 |
| 10:32.54 | koen | Email sent to: federico@ximian.com, xan@gnome.org, carlosg@gnome.org, leio@gentoo.org, kmaraas@gnome.org, gtk-bugs@gtk.org, otaylor@redhat.com, mclasen@redhat.com, behdad@gnome.org, billy.biggs@gmail.com, pb@nexus.co.uk, cloos@jhcloos.com, timj-lists@gtk.org, sandmann@daimi.au.dk, bzbot@bkor.dhs.org " |
| 10:33.11 | koen | seems gnome bugzilla spams a lot of people |
| 10:41.06 | CM | Heh, 4.5 years old bug |
| 10:41.34 | koen | see the bottom part of http://dominion.kabel.utwente.nl/koen/cms/integer-pixel-operations-for-gtk |
| 10:42.46 | CM | I almost sense a bit of bitterness there.. |
| 10:42.49 | CM | ;) |
| 10:42.53 | koen | you do? |
| 10:43.00 | Morgreet | Never! |
| 10:43.01 | koen | I have no idea why ;) |
| 10:43.05 | CM | Sad but true though.. |
| 10:43.44 | Stephmw | hrmph. OT question: who still makes pci-x motherboard other than Tyan and Supermicro? need to replace an old dead one |
| 10:44.47 | Morgreet | Not really what you asked, but Dell servers still have PCI-X. I'm running a 2800 with 4 slots. |
| 10:45.41 | koen | pci-x, is that the renamed pci-64? |
| 10:46.28 | Morgreet | PCI-64 wasn't really a proper standard, I believe. But essentially, yes. |
| 10:46.28 | Stephmw | Morgreet: ok, so I could try finding a 2nd-hand one and use that instead... dare I ask about price? |
| 10:46.43 | Morgreet | Stephmw: cheap |
| 10:49.05 | Stephmw | Morgreet: got one spare? :) |
| 10:51.00 | Morgreet | Stephmw: hehe, nah, mine's working fine as an audio and file server. Putting in a graphics card was 100% required though. The built-in V9000 ATI chip generates bus errors with X11, although that's par for the course with ATI in my experience. |
| 10:51.35 | Stephmw | Morgreet: bah :) now I have to see if I can source one in London |
| 10:52.18 | Morgreet | I hope ATI's crapness doesn't take AMD down, would be a big pity. |
| 10:53.09 | koen | robtaylor, xkr47: http://0pointer.de/blog/projects/foms-lca-recap.html |
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| 10:57.16 | Morgreet | koen: that FOMS article brings to mind the comment earlier about stuff only getting into gnome rapidly if it comes form RedHat. Well that's happening in the opposite direction with Linux audio: RH's Ingo Molnar has been trying to get his full realtime patches into the kernel for some 3 years now, and it's still only partial in 2.6.20. |
| 10:57.32 | Morgreet | So unfortunately there are priesthoods everywhere in FOSS. |
| 10:57.59 | koen | yep |
| 10:58.23 | koen | but since discovering OE I don't care a lot about getting patches in mainline anymore |
| 10:58.34 | koen | OE makes it so easy to apply a shitload of patches |
| 10:58.51 | Elrond | Morgreet - Ohhh yeahhh... |
| 10:59.19 | Morgreet | And Gentoo as well, although I haven't actually done it myself. But yes, patches are applied automatically as part of the emerge process. |
| 10:59.35 | Morgreet | Hi El :-) |
| 11:00.01 | Elrond | Patches have to be kept up to date... this somtimes warrants getting them in upstream. |
| 11:00.20 | Elrond | But "priesthoods" is a good word, yes. |
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| 11:00.39 | Morgreet | Oh, it always warrants it, yes. The problem is trying to get them accepted :-( |
| 11:00.54 | Elrond | Morgreet - Right. :-( |
| 11:01.39 | Morgreet | Well I said "priesthoods" on purpose, because supposedly we are not using a Cathedral paradigm but a Bazaar. But sadly, it's a Bazaar full of cliques. |
| 11:02.07 | Elrond | Right, right. |
| 11:03.07 | Morgreet | Let's hope it's not so on OM. The openness needs to extend to contributions too. |
| 11:03.10 | Stephmw | Morgreet: do pci-x and pci-e have the same socket? http://www.scan.co.uk/Products/ProductInfo.asp?WebProductID=152791 seems to imply this |
| 11:03.18 | Morgreet | Stephmw: gosh no |
| 11:03.24 | Morgreet | Totally different |
| 11:04.09 | Stephmw | weird... I wonder where supermicro are hiding it.. http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/P4/e7221/p8sci.cfm |
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| 11:06.47 | Morgreet | PCI-X looks like a longer version of PCI, big chuncky connectors, with two different blocked locations (plastic pin) depending on whether it's a 5V or 3.3V slot. PCIe is dinkier connector, and short. (Only as long as number of lanes, 16-lane for graphics is about same length as PCI) |
| 11:07.26 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@thbh-ip-vsat-2-p254.vsat.telkom-ipnet.co.za) |
| 11:07.37 | Morgreet | Servers never have 16-lane PCIe though (why is a total mystery to me, marketting I guess), just 1, 2, 4, and 8-lane. |
| 11:07.44 | Stephmw | ahh |
| 11:08.21 | Stephmw | ok, I see how they've got that arranged on that board |
| 11:08.30 | Morgreet | Which means that PCIe graphics cards for servers are extremely rare, since 99.9999% are 16-lane. The only one I've found is Matrox G550, which is 1-lane PCIe. |
| 11:08.56 | Stephmw | short=pcie, long=pci-x+pci... they don't mention the pci-x/pci slots are shared :) |
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| 11:10.01 | Morgreet | Actually a nice card the G550, open sources drivers, and fanless. Slow compared to ATI/nVidia of course, as not GPU, just fixed pipeline. |
| 11:10.51 | Stephmw | one thing I remember from the various 1U servers I've seen is that noise reduction was never a factor... boy are those babies loud |
| 11:12.06 | Morgreet | Not just the 1U's ... :-( Dell 2800 is a monster with 8 fans, dual redundancy on most of them. In summer, it sounds like a jumbo jet. |
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| 11:13.32 | Elrond | hehe... the university department I used to admin bought dell servers. ;) Yes, they are loud. ;) |
| 11:13.42 | Elrond | dell desktops are quiet. :-) |
| 11:13.48 | Morgreet | In fact, the 2800 is dual redundant everything ... fans, power supplies, controllers, CPUs. Very industrial. |
| 11:14.03 | Elrond | Weee. |
| 11:14.12 | Elrond | What does such a biest cost (new)? |
| 11:14.33 | Morgreet | Cheap, lol. I was very surprised. |
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| 11:15.16 | Morgreet | Incredible amount of steel for the price (4U, no way can a person who isn't Arnie lift this thing). |
| 11:15.38 | Morgreet | Needs a very deep rack too. |
| 11:16.43 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 11:16.52 | Elrond | What is cheap in dollars? ;o) |
| 11:16.59 | Elrond | (or euro) |
| 11:17.50 | Morgreet | It's 3 years old now, but cost about a grand base GBP, and that was dual Xeon + 2G ram. |
| 11:18.45 | Morgreet | Current model is very similar though, I looked a couple of months ago. Probably called 2850 or something like that |
| 11:19.20 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 11:19.35 | Elrond | Doesn't sound like soemthing for at home anyway. ;) |
| 11:22.01 | Morgreet | Oh, looks like that range is being discontinued |
| 11:22.32 | Morgreet | They seem to be changing to Core Duo, which makes sense. But double the price. |
| 11:23.21 | Morgreet | Yeah, those servers are not really for the home, unless you have a computer room with good sound insulation. |
| 11:23.43 | hrw | coreduo or core2duo? |
| 11:23.56 | Morgreet | They only spin their fans as fast as necessary, but even so, not really for home. |
| 11:26.12 | Morgreet | hrw: actually, no, they don't seem to be Core Duo at all, but Xeon Dual Core. This is getting confusing. |
| 11:26.56 | Stephmw | Morgreet: can I keep bouncing ideas off you, or have I gone a wee bit too OT? |
| 11:28.05 | Morgreet | Stephmw: lol, we've got nothing better to do here for another 1.8 days .... :P Fire away, I'm happy to act as bouncy wall :P |
| 11:28.34 | Stephmw | true enough :) |
| 11:29.04 | Stephmw | that connector at the bottom looks like pci-x, http://www.etb-tech.com/uploads/PE2450MB1.jpg |
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| 11:30.08 | Morgreet | Back, looking |
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| 11:30.53 | Morgreet | Well it's certainly not PCIe |
| 11:31.10 | Morgreet | Bad picture though |
| 11:31.23 | Stephmw | that's one downside with these damn servers... no detailed specs on the internals :( |
| 11:33.25 | Morgreet | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peripheral_Component_Interconnect |
| 11:33.26 | mjr | so, I was away for a while, has there been talk of the gpephone project? any possible synergy? |
| 11:33.26 | Morgreet | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PCI_Express |
| 11:33.41 | Morgreet | I had a comparative graphic of the connectors that was better. |
| 11:34.13 | Morgreet | mjr: hasn't been mentioned, although Slashdot has had a duped article about GPE today |
| 11:34.36 | Morgreet | Zonk chose his name well. |
| 11:34.42 | Stephmw | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:PCIExpress.jpg is good |
| 11:35.54 | mjr | Morgreet, well, I didn't notice it was a dupe ;) |
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| 11:37.32 | koen | it already has been mentioned |
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| 11:40.37 | Morgreet | Stephmw: http://tomshardware.co.uk/2004/03/01/sneak_preview/page12.html |
| 11:43.22 | Morgreet | And 2 pages before that one for PCIe .... http://tomshardware.co.uk/2004/03/01/sneak_preview/page10.html |
| 11:44.18 | Stephmw | hmm, ok, so that poor photo we saw earlier was 64-bit, 3.3v |
| 11:44.22 | Stephmw | (pci-x) |
| 11:44.31 | Morgreet | Looked like it yes. |
| 11:45.02 | Stephmw | hmm, 40 quid, including cpus |
| 11:45.10 | Morgreet | lol |
| 11:45.25 | Stephmw | not a massive gamble ;) |
| 11:45.37 | Stephmw | 10 available too ;) |
| 11:45.42 | Stephmw | http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dell-PowerEdge-2450-Dual-CPU-Motherboard-4563T-35YXT_W0QQitemZ300079085831QQihZ020QQcategoryZ1484QQcmdZViewItem#ebayphotohosting |
| 11:46.52 | Morgreet | Very slow though |
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| 11:47.44 | Stephmw | for a NAS? |
| 11:48.30 | Morgreet | Hey, you know you might have a problem mounting that thing. |
| 11:48.52 | Stephmw | let me guess.. different mountings/backplates? |
| 11:49.25 | Morgreet | Yeah, Dell is pretty non-standard mountings for everything. |
| 11:51.01 | Morgreet | For a reason, I guess, since their machines tend to be easy-install. Eg. the 2800 is a zero-tools chassis. |
| 11:51.49 | rwhitby | no time on the Dell production line for turning screws. |
| 11:51.57 | Morgreet | Yeah |
| 11:53.15 | Morgreet | But of course, that ties you to them, which is bad. And it's terminal in the long term, once they've abandoned a particular chassis. |
| 11:54.15 | Morgreet | Commodity standards get abandoned too, but much more slowly. |
| 11:55.08 | Morgreet | I'm continually being torn between those two considerations pulling in opposite directions. |
| 11:55.53 | Morgreet | For 1U, there doesn't seem to be a choice. You have to go proprietary. |
| 11:57.16 | Stephmw | looking at yell.com, it feels like online shops have spelled the end of cheap, high-street component dealers :( |
| 11:59.17 | Morgreet | Yep. In the UK there's only Maplin left really, and a small OEM corner of some PC World stores, although that barely qualifies. |
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| 11:59.37 | benJIman | Maplin charge a fortune. |
| 11:59.45 | benJIman | and never actually have anything. |
| 12:00.10 | Stephmw | right |
| 12:00.57 | Stephmw | Morgreet: this is your beastie, right? http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Dell-Poweredge-2800-Dual-xeons-2x3-2ghz-SCSI-Drives_W0QQitemZ160081965765QQihZ006QQcategoryZ1484QQcmdZViewItem |
| 12:00.59 | benJIman | BTW any mounting problems can be solved with duct tape |
| 12:01.03 | Morgreet | benJIman: you have to do a Store Check, and go to the nearest one with what you want. It's true, your local will carry only a small selection, but not surprised really. |
| 12:01.18 | Morgreet | At least there are tons of Maplins around. |
| 12:01.25 | benJIman | Morgreet: We have a HUGE one and it still never has anything I ever want |
| 12:01.39 | benJIman | And they charge 12 month old prices for components |
| 12:02.04 | benJIman | Speaking of which I'm just off to try and find a computer store with something. |
| 12:02.08 | Morgreet | Stephmw: ebay isn't being cooperative from here atm ... |
| 12:03.05 | Morgreet | Stephmw: but yeah, judging from the URL, that's the one. |
| 12:03.42 | Morgreet | They've got the picture reversed left-right. |
| 12:05.03 | Morgreet | That's a steal for 150 quid. But frankly, you don't want one of those in your home. |
| 12:05.53 | Stephmw | I was thinking basement ;-) |
| 12:06.04 | Morgreet | The graphics make it seem smaller than it is. |
| 12:06.30 | Stephmw | 150 quid delivery, I can fill in the blanks ;) |
| 12:07.07 | Morgreet | I see you're being tempted. Well, don't say that I didn't warn you that it's a monster. :-) |
| 12:07.24 | Morgreet | And I mean it. |
| 12:08.01 | Stephmw | I'm still looking for a vanilla atx mobo with pci-x ;) |
| 12:08.10 | Stephmw | a server box is my last resort |
| 12:08.50 | Morgreet | Hell of a lot for your money though. Beware future costs though: 8 slots of U320 is fantastic ... until you consider the cost of drives versus SATA. |
| 12:09.28 | Stephmw | well, I already have a sata2 raid array, so those features are excessive :( |
| 12:09.56 | Morgreet | I have to say, this box is excessive in all respects, lol. |
| 12:10.42 | *** part/#openmoko Eblis (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
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| 12:12.12 | Morgreet | The postage costs actually tell you something about that box ... ;-) |
| 12:12.18 | Stephmw | yah |
| 12:12.29 | Stephmw | ok... found a mobo for atx cases, cpu-less though |
| 12:12.38 | Morgreet | It came on an industrial pallet. |
| 12:13.31 | Stephmw | no worries, I can lift those with my little finger |
| 12:13.39 | Morgreet | Hehe |
| 12:16.08 | Morgreet | Well I'm trying to buy a 1U Sun Fire X2100 M2. Sadly Sun are trying their darndest to not take my money. If I had Sun shares, that would worry me. |
| 12:16.54 | koen | aren't SAS and SATA sort of compatible these days? |
| 12:17.45 | Morgreet | SAS the SCSI thing? |
| 12:18.17 | Morgreet | Didn't know serial SCSI was in the wild yet, though haven't been looking. |
| 12:18.47 | Morgreet | Apart from FC of course, I meant copper. |
| 12:19.47 | koen | I think I'm behind a few generations |
| 12:21.55 | Morgreet | Hehe, I dug out a SCSI-1 machine from the box room the other day --- you know, the Centronics-type connectors ;-) |
| 12:23.09 | koen | yes |
| 12:24.31 | Stephmw | I still have a controller card for those somewhere... no boot bios though :( |
| 12:24.48 | Morgreet | Funnily enough, I've never had an IDE hard disk in any machine since the 386 came out. Started with Adaptec as soon as they came into existence, and it's been SCSI all the way. Only now with this Sun Fire that Sun seem not to want to sell me, that'll be my first ATA drive, SATA in this case. |
| 12:26.04 | Morgreet | Oh, I have a PATA drive in a USB enclosure for offline backup, but that doesn't count, not in a machine. |
| 12:29.35 | Morgreet | I wonder when the first nanoscale storage will emerge. Don't need full MNT for that, so shouldn't be long. |
| 12:33.16 | Morgreet | Stephmw: http://www.matrox.com/graphics/en/crepro/products/gseries/g550pcie.php |
| 12:33.39 | Morgreet | (In case you end up with a server card with fewer than 16 lanes of PCIe. |
| 12:34.10 | Morgreet | They also do a low-profile version of same card. |
| 12:34.13 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 12:34.32 | SpeedEvil | Modern hard disks use nanoscale stuff in the coating of the platters. |
| 12:34.46 | Morgreet | "world's first PCI Express graphics card with open-source display drivers for Linux and other Unix-like operating systems" |
| 12:35.02 | Morgreet | SpeedEvil: and the heads too |
| 12:35.08 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 12:35.14 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention the chips. |
| 12:37.38 | Morgreet | Come on core team, it's time for a few more accidental leaks .... :P |
| 12:39.31 | Morgreet | I wonder if FIC is ready for Slashdot ... hope they're not running on a Slug ;-) |
| 12:39.38 | Morgreet | Or on a Neo ;+-) |
| 12:41.40 | koen | openmosix with 100k neos :) |
| 12:41.46 | Morgreet | Hehehehehe |
| 12:43.07 | Morgreet | Well since 1 Neo can trivially handle 1 HTTP session, that would probably work if the load balancer can cope :P |
| 12:49.08 | SpeedEvil | It might tax the GSM network it was connected to :) |
| 12:49.52 | Morgreet | The other meaning of "tax" might become relevant too :-( |
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| 12:50.15 | mjr | usbnet to the rescue |
| 12:50.29 | mjr | but I think one bus can only handle 127 neos, so you need quite a few |
| 12:50.36 | Stephmw | Morgreet: even slower... http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ASUS-A7M266-DUAL-PROCESSOR-MOTHER-BOARD-WITH-CPU-MINT_W0QQitemZ290079451440QQihZ019QQcategoryZ31496QQcmdZViewItem |
| 12:51.32 | Morgreet | I've not looked into usbnet. Can it be used more than just point-to-point? |
| 12:51.59 | koen | cool, the pixops awareness effort has some results |
| 12:52.40 | Morgreet | Stephmw: oh, two PCI-X? And cheap |
| 12:52.54 | Stephmw | Morgreet: only 66MHz, but at that price.. |
| 12:53.18 | Morgreet | Nothing lost at that price. |
| 12:55.54 | Morgreet | With gigabit ether integrated on so many modern boards these days, usbnet seems destined for old equipment only. |
| 12:56.37 | SpeedEvil | portable stuff too |
| 12:57.23 | Stephmw | all we need now are slimline ethernet connectors |
| 12:57.27 | SpeedEvil | If only USB had a common 'high power' mode, then it'd bacome an easy solution to plugging in laptops |
| 12:58.22 | SpeedEvil | 50 ohm slimline connectors are widely available. Back to 10base2! |
| 12:58.33 | Morgreet | Eeeek |
| 13:00.38 | Stephmw | haha |
| 13:02.24 | Morgreet | We actually need 10gig ether now, to encapsulate HDTV at the top end comfortably ... it's just slightly too fast for 1gig. |
| 13:02.52 | Morgreet | By a factor or about 2-3. |
| 13:02.55 | Morgreet | of* |
| 13:03.35 | Morgreet | Alternatively .... some decent compression. |
| 13:05.29 | Stephmw | I thought a problem with 10gig was power consumption? |
| 13:05.59 | Morgreet | I didn't know that. |
| 13:06.14 | Stephmw | lemme see if I can find the article |
| 13:06.20 | Morgreet | Cheers |
| 13:08.42 | koen | increased powerconsumption with increased bandwidth? |
| 13:08.48 | koen | who would have thought?!?!? |
| 13:08.58 | Stephmw | fucking snipers. |
| 13:09.02 | Stephmw | lost the auction |
| 13:09.09 | Morgreet | :-( |
| 13:09.54 | buz | 25W for a 10gig nic |
| 13:10.15 | Morgreet | koen: yeah, increase expected, but not to the extent of causing problems. |
| 13:10.27 | Morgreet | buz: OK, that's a problem. |
| 13:10.41 | Stephmw | yah, can't find the article, read it at work :( |
| 13:10.47 | Morgreet | k |
| 13:11.35 | buz | murphy must live inside my scanner |
| 13:11.41 | buz | whenever i close the lid, the paper moves |
| 13:11.42 | lucas123 | counter |
| 13:11.43 | aloril | a day 16:48:17 (1.700 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.700 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.700 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (200) |
| 13:13.48 | xkr47 | can we have milliseconds included ?--D |
| 13:14.09 | xkr47 | and not just apparently :) |
| 13:14.29 | Morgreet | Bah, only humans need sleep ;-) |
| 13:14.34 | SpeedEvil | Don't close the lid? |
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| 13:17.34 | Morgreet | Can anyone think of a Linux firewall distro with built-in load balancer? |
| 13:17.36 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 13:18.06 | xkr47 | do you mean QoS or link equalizer ? |
| 13:18.36 | Morgreet | xkr47: load equalizer, either just session counted or with seever feedback. |
| 13:18.38 | xkr47 | or do you mean like a machine in front of two servers ? |
| 13:18.54 | Morgreet | xkr47: yeah, multiple back ends |
| 13:18.59 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 13:19.11 | xkr47 | ok.. well I know there's some userspace software that you can pretty much install in any distro I think |
| 13:19.23 | xkr47 | maybe there are some preconfigured distros as well, dunno |
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| 13:20.15 | Morgreet | xkr47: indeed, quite a few, and I could do it longhand with Gentoo as well. But wanted to just splurge a whole image into a Xen firewall domU. |
| 13:20.26 | xkr47 | http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/3410/gentoomi2.jpg |
| 13:20.32 | xkr47 | Morgreet ^^ |
| 13:20.39 | xkr47 | (I run gentoo as well :) |
| 13:20.49 | xkr47 | Morgreet, right.. |
| 13:21.18 | Morgreet | Hehe, funny caption |
| 13:21.48 | SpeedEvil | oots |
| 13:22.16 | Morgreet | xkr47: aye, Gentoo's nice. I've run many distros for years, but Gentoo seems to be the most flexible. |
| 13:23.09 | Morgreet | And BSDs and other stuff a well. Pretty agnostic, they're just tools. |
| 13:23.44 | Morgreet | If Sun ever get their act together and I get that Sun Fire, I'll run OpenSolaris as well. |
| 13:24.49 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: cheers, will keep it in mind for the next ones |
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| 14:27.10 | aloril2 | about 9.5h to UTC 00:00:00 |
| 14:27.10 | aloril2 | counter |
| 14:27.10 | aloril | a day 15:32:49 (1.648 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.648 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.648 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (201) |
| 14:37.51 | Morgreet | What was it we were waiting for again? |
| 14:37.56 | Morgreet | Oh yeah, software. |
| 14:38.17 | Morgreet | Mp it wasn't, it was the end to unanswered questions. :-) |
| 14:38.25 | Morgreet | s/Mp/No/ |
| 14:39.26 | Morgreet | Actually, an end to the questions will take a few more days, until peeps receive their Neos. |
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| 14:43.35 | Morgreet | apt: ~man <OE/OM-manpage> ... sent to the sender by /message would be handy |
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| 14:45.56 | Morgreet | Think I'll try hooking dasher into IRC. |
| 14:47.36 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. Interesting. Response on mailing list from Sean saying 'Yes, P1 will continue to be available, even if we run out, maybe with delays'. |
| 14:47.57 | SpeedEvil | Dasher is interesting. I've got up to 60WPM with it. |
| 14:48.16 | SpeedEvil | Admittedly, that's just pulling the mouse all the way to the right, and it producing sort-of-sentances :) |
| 14:50.02 | Elrond | What is P1? |
| 14:52.08 | SuN | http://www.ddj.com/dept/opensource/197004438?cid=RSSfeed_DDJ_All <- are they f'in' blind? |
| 14:53.33 | zipola_ | They have gained some media coverage. |
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| 15:23.18 | SuN | Hm, judging from the screenshots, GPEphone could be interesting. As far as I can see it takes a more traditional approach, and it's always good to have choice. |
| 15:24.18 | Elrond | SuN - url for screenshots? |
| 15:24.33 | zipola_ | I'm interested too. |
| 15:24.33 | SuN | http://gpephone.linuxtogo.org/screenshots/index.html |
| 15:24.57 | Elrond | Thanks! |
| 15:26.52 | Elrond | On what phone is this supposed to run? |
| 15:27.29 | SuN | Any, I guess. But it seems to be aimed at something with a physical numeric keypad. |
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| 15:28.17 | Elrond | Right. |
| 15:28.20 | SpeedEvil | P1 is phase 1, which is the phones that will be on sale in around a month, for $350 |
| 15:29.15 | SpeedEvil | So in other words, they will carry on being available, if you don't order immediately. |
| 15:29.21 | Morgreet | GPE seems to be just the apps layer, so should run easily on Neo/OM. |
| 15:29.43 | SuN | It has more or less the same structure. |
| 15:30.05 | SuN | Specialized wm on an X11 layer, with GTK apps and widgets. |
| 15:31.12 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh, thanks for explaining. |
| 15:31.29 | Elrond | Are there any infos on pricing in P2 available yet? |
| 15:31.36 | SpeedEvil | Nope. |
| 15:31.46 | SpeedEvil | I'd expect it to be 'whatever the market will bear'. |
| 15:32.15 | Morgreet | Btw, does anyone know whether the GSM module can be totally powered off in the Neo, 100% not there, while everything else remains operational? |
| 15:32.15 | SpeedEvil | Though the hints on new features to be announced over the next couple of months for P2 are interesting. |
| 15:32.39 | SpeedEvil | I'd imagine you can easily suspend it with an AT command. |
| 15:32.48 | Elrond | Right. |
| 15:33.02 | mjr | Morgreet, I've seen mentions that you can put it in off-line mode. Dunon if the chip is then 100% not there, but should suffice... |
| 15:33.03 | Morgreet | SpeedEvil: I don't mean suspend. I mean off, and no power taken. |
| 15:33.03 | SpeedEvil | And it is easy to tell if it's emitting, when it says it's off. |
| 15:33.17 | Morgreet | mjr: cheers |
| 15:33.20 | Elrond | I think, someone said, that they need (FIC) power-gsm-off for flight mode. |
| 15:33.31 | buz | gpephone is a nice idea, but how's that supposed to take off without any hardware? |
| 15:33.45 | buz | neo would be about the only real phone to run it |
| 15:33.49 | Morgreet | Elrond: indeed. I want the RF to be completely not there at all, not merely not transmitting. |
| 15:33.59 | SpeedEvil | Why? |
| 15:34.08 | Elrond | a) saving power. |
| 15:34.15 | Elrond | b) Not being trackable. :) |
| 15:34.27 | Morgreet | ebecause I'm not entering a hospital with it turned on. Just me, I've got this funny thing about not killing people. |
| 15:34.31 | SpeedEvil | Saving power, I can see - though it's going to be vanishingly small if you've got the display or CPU on. |
| 15:34.47 | SpeedEvil | If the transmitter is not operating, it's not emitting anything worth talking of. |
| 15:34.57 | SpeedEvil | Certainly nothing beyond what the CPU/LCD will. |
| 15:35.03 | Elrond | c) See Morgreet's thing about killing people. :) |
| 15:35.35 | SpeedEvil | Also - recent tests in the UK by the medicines control agency (body that does this sort of thing) has found no case of medical stuff being harmed by GSM. |
| 15:35.56 | Morgreet | SpeedEvil: no no, you misunderstand --- interfering with medical equipment |
| 15:36.01 | SpeedEvil | Some get the display messed up with an operating phone next to them till you turn it off. |
| 15:36.05 | SpeedEvil | No, No, I diddn't. |
| 15:36.34 | SpeedEvil | If the transmitter is off, it's off. The reciever being on does not cause it to transmit - or the GSM module being in suspend. |
| 15:37.11 | SpeedEvil | I would imagine that suspend'll turn it all off anyway - the GSM reciever alone can't sync to a cell. |
| 15:37.30 | SpeedEvil | And can't do anything interesting like recieving calls. |
| 15:37.56 | Morgreet | There is a difference between a transmitter off and simple not transmitting. The receiver doesn't bother me. It's the Tx PA that I want to be off. |
| 15:39.09 | mjr | Sean saying "yes" for "airplane mode" on the list: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2006-November/000358.html |
| 15:39.13 | SpeedEvil | There is no difference in emitted power with modern phones. If the PA is not driven, it does not output RF. However, the PA in most cases uses a fair amount of power even static, so it will only be turned on when the phone needs to transmit. |
| 15:39.20 | Elrond | Morgreet - If you're crazy on reading specs, there are AT-commnd-specs for other gsm modules out there. ;o) That _might_ give an idea, if this sort of thing is possible. |
| 15:39.25 | Morgreet | Let's wait and see what's available at the AT command. |
| 15:39.33 | mjr | the quote talks about receivers but the meaning should be clear enough |
| 15:40.04 | SpeedEvil | It will certainly be able to be switched into 'suspend' mode of some sort, where it doesn't ever use the radio. |
| 15:41.10 | SpeedEvil | (I've been reading IC vendor leaflets, and they cover this sort of stuff. |
| 15:41.28 | Elrond | Hmm, reading that post, I wonder: Why would one need to disable gps in an airplane (not talking ITAR here) |
| 15:41.48 | SpeedEvil | Captain/airline rules. |
| 15:42.03 | Morgreet | SpeedEvil: "It won't transmit even when it's on, because our programming doesn't allow it". LOL. Unlike you, I'm a realist ;-) |
| 15:42.11 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - general paranoia? |
| 15:42.11 | mjr | well, in principle active receivers do radiate very slight amounts of harmonic frequencies |
| 15:42.47 | SpeedEvil | And ITAR is irrelevant - the ITAR laws say nothing about operating recievers, just capabilities. |
| 15:42.53 | mjr | but yeah, chalk it up to paranoia |
| 15:43.30 | SpeedEvil | For GPS, the amount emitted on the GPS frequency is two thirds of bugger all. |
| 15:43.44 | SpeedEvil | Two adjacent (5cm) GPS recievers do not interfere. |
| 15:43.52 | SpeedEvil | Which sets a really low limit on the emissions. |
| 15:44.12 | Morgreet | mjr: it's not only residual RF, that's probably fairly harmless. It's what happens in response to other junk coming in down the antenna, like the local airport's radar. Turning on your PA is just one of many things that can happen. |
| 15:45.00 | Morgreet | The only sure-fire way of being in control is having it turned off. |
| 15:45.13 | mjr | I know it's not only residual, powered receivers do actively radiate a very slight amount |
| 15:45.24 | SpeedEvil | The PA will be off in recieve mode. |
| 15:45.31 | SpeedEvil | It uses lots of power. |
| 15:45.32 | Morgreet | mjr: usually their LO's, yeah |
| 15:45.35 | SpeedEvil | Even idle. |
| 15:47.44 | Elrond | counter |
| 15:47.44 | aloril | a day 14:12:15 (1.592 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.592 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.592 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (202) |
| 15:47.52 | Elrond | ... until we know about AT commands. ;) |
| 15:48.05 | buz | i dont think anyone actually gives a damn about gsm use in hospitals anymore |
| 15:48.08 | SpeedEvil | In practice, nothing will get messed up with reciever oscillators, unless they malfunction and start oscillating at the international distress frequency. |
| 15:48.09 | buz | you see everyone using them |
| 15:48.13 | buz | including staff |
| 15:48.22 | SpeedEvil | (which has happened) |
| 15:48.31 | buz | maybe it's banned in a few select areas |
| 15:48.36 | SpeedEvil | Helicopters turning up to investigate digital TV boxes. |
| 15:48.51 | buz | i could understand not wanting GSM near sensitive radiology equipment |
| 15:49.41 | SpeedEvil | IMO, not taking into account the fact that patients (who may be unconsious or just forgetful) nowadays commonly carry tiny RF transmitters is insane. |
| 15:50.07 | SpeedEvil | Of course, there are very old designs out there. |
| 15:50.52 | SpeedEvil | And then there is the evil. |
| 15:51.07 | SpeedEvil | 'Yes, mobiles are banned.' |
| 15:51.11 | Stephmw | buz: another reason for banning patient phones is... force people to use hospital phones at 12x the standard rate |
| 15:51.31 | SpeedEvil | 'Here is a nice all-in-one TV and phone, paid for at the low rate of only 1 limb/hour.' |
| 15:51.51 | buz | i always used cells in hospital |
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| 15:52.33 | buz | nobody ever gave a damn |
| 15:52.57 | Clint | same here |
| 15:53.01 | buz | ok i suggest not to take it with you into an MRI machine |
| 15:53.03 | buz | for obvious reasons |
| 15:53.11 | koen | the docters I know are raving about their wifi/bluetooth/gsm toys being able to do cool stuff wireless inside the hospital |
| 15:53.16 | SpeedEvil | Well, any metal pretty much destroyus the picture in the area. |
| 15:53.17 | buz | yeah |
| 15:53.24 | buz | they run around with tablet pcs all day |
| 15:53.37 | buz | destroying pictures is one thing |
| 15:53.43 | koen | "but gsm aren't allowed inside the hospital" "no, patients and visitors aren't allowed gsms" |
| 15:53.48 | SpeedEvil | Not to mention the bad exploding battery possibilities. and hte 'flying at speed' thing. |
| 15:54.12 | buz | iron flying towards the machine at insane speed much another |
| 15:54.12 | Morgreet | You can design-in as much RF immunity into equipment as you like, but it all costs money, and even medical equipment is made to a price. Plus, individual items of equipment don't always meet the specs. So, I think it's pretty rational to try to avoid accidents if one has the means. |
| 15:54.37 | buz | acidents like what? heart rate being measured 0.1 beat off? |
| 15:54.48 | SpeedEvil | So you're happy if everyone dies if an aircraft with operating radar passes over? |
| 15:54.53 | buz | its not like there is terribly complex stuff going on in your average patients room |
| 15:55.09 | SpeedEvil | In general - RF immunity is not complex. You add filters. |
| 15:55.23 | SpeedEvil | Nothing at all in the body generates frequencies over 200Hz or so. |
| 15:55.30 | buz | besides, there's gotta be shitloads of rf in a hospital any |
| 15:55.30 | koen | SpeedEvil: awacs routes are classified, so you'll never know what caused the failure ;) |
| 15:55.31 | buz | way |
| 15:55.46 | Morgreet | Guys, I'm not trying to convert you to being over-cautious. Don't try to convert me to being under-cautious, please. |
| 15:56.07 | buz | fine, if i ever visit you in hospital, i'll turn my neo off |
| 15:56.19 | Morgreet | Thanks buz. |
| 15:57.24 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 15:58.35 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.133.110.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 15:59.50 | Morgreet | SpeedEvil: "In general - RF immunity is not complex. You add filters." --- ROFL. You clearly know bugger all about RF, SpeedEvil. It's not like the simple model we teach students in class, unfortunately. |
| 16:00.04 | Morgreet | <-- ex Uni lecturer in Elec Eng. |
| 16:00.18 | koen | you just add shielding :) |
| 16:00.35 | koen | "just add lead(TM)" |
| 16:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54007FBA.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:00.49 | Morgreet | Only in the irelevant case of zero external interfaces. |
| 16:01.05 | koen | yeah |
| 16:02.22 | Morgreet | Aye. It's one of the hairiest parts of EE. |
| 16:02.51 | Elrond | I have all that live and in color in the lab. ;o) |
| 16:03.13 | Morgreet | Gratz, and sympathies ;-) |
| 16:03.16 | Elrond | People switching on the He-measurement thing and the main RF-based measurement goes wrong. ;o) |
| 16:03.46 | koen | birds and MWatt transmitters are compatible as well |
| 16:03.48 | Elrond | They needed 2 weeks to find out. |
| 16:04.35 | Elrond | People ran around and acused everything of disturbing the experiemnts. ;) |
| 16:04.44 | koen | Morgreet: the university had a great plan to make some money: allow a big radio station to put their broadcast stuff on the uni terrain |
| 16:04.56 | koen | Morgreet: on top of the EE labs....... |
| 16:05.02 | Morgreet | And the funny thing about all this is that people think they're leaving all that mess behind by going digital ... without realizing the very small noise margins used in digital signalling so that rates can be kept up. :-) |
| 16:05.18 | Morgreet | koen: LOL, great :P |
| 16:05.20 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1177563819.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:05.39 | Stephmw | there's also all those impulse harmonics generated by having nice, square, waves |
| 16:05.59 | koen | heh |
| 16:06.08 | Stephmw | hmmm... not sure about the spelling |
| 16:06.10 | koen | rect -> sinc(w) |
| 16:06.12 | Morgreet | Stephmw: Hehe. You should try Walsh functions then :P |
| 16:07.08 | Morgreet | koen: nice :-) You can program our DSP in v2 ;-) |
| 16:07.14 | koen | :) |
| 16:07.17 | Stephmw | Morgreet: thing that got me was that we had to discover for ourselves that integrating over -1/2t -> 1/2 was a nice shortcut... all the problem questions were always in the positive periods |
| 16:07.26 | Stephmw | Morgreet: effing lecturers |
| 16:08.33 | Elrond | AT+CFUN=2 disable TX |
| 16:08.44 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@203-206-26-220.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 16:08.44 | Elrond | ... for another gsm module. |
| 16:08.52 | Morgreet | Stephmw: well, the thing about lecturers (I'm allowed to criticize myself) is that the way Unis are structured, teaching is just a distraction from the only thing that's professionally important, which is publication. It's a very bad system. |
| 16:09.07 | Elrond | =4 disable TX and Rx. |
| 16:09.09 | Elrond | strange. |
| 16:09.49 | Stephmw | Morgreet: agreed |
| 16:10.50 | Stephmw | Morgreet: alas, that comes out as a major case of elitism and a lack of care :( |
| 16:10.51 | *** join/#openmoko k-s (n=gustavo@189.12.105.226) |
| 16:10.57 | Elrond | Okay, that's the wrong command. It's only power saving. incoming calls will wake it up... |
| 16:11.53 | Stephmw | Morgreet: and graduates that know jack all |
| 16:11.54 | Morgreet | Indeed. It's very sad. |
| 16:12.23 | Morgreet | In general I recommend school leavers to go to research-free polytechnics and colleges. The whole point of lecturing then becomes to *teach*. |
| 16:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 16:12.39 | greentux | counter |
| 16:12.40 | aloril | a day 13:47:20 (1.575 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.575 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.575 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (203) |
| 16:18.32 | Morgreet | And polys tend to be a bit more vocationally-oriented too, which isn't bad. There's no harm in being able to do something practical on day 1 after you get your degree. ;-) |
| 16:20.09 | Morgreet | And anyway, education is a life-long thing, not just a 3-year period. The very highest quality 3-year degree stint will get you nowhere if you abandon learning when you finish it. |
| 16:21.08 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 16:25.56 | buz | some people with 3 year degree beat the living shit out of many phds i know |
| 16:26.14 | buz | length of education is barely important |
| 16:27.09 | buz | but going to a non research uni isn't the solution in my view. most lectures by people who dont do research in their field just plain suck |
| 16:28.47 | *** join/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 16:28.56 | nomeata | Hi |
| 16:29.20 | nomeata | Just wondering: I have to get a new phone anyways, around March/April, and a really free phone would be very nice. |
| 16:29.25 | Morgreet | buz: yeah, that's true, it's not really possible to generalize about people. But the Uni system of not rewarding good lecturing at all doesn't help matters. |
| 16:29.39 | buz | thats true |
| 16:29.44 | nomeata | But how probably is it that I can indeed order the phone in march? |
| 16:29.57 | koen | counter |
| 16:29.57 | aloril | a day 13:30:02 (1.563 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.563 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.563 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (204) |
| 16:30.10 | koen | reading the topic helps a lot |
| 16:31.22 | nomeata | Well, I know the dates. I’m wondering whether I can trust them. Are there rumors that the schedule can’t be kept? |
| 16:31.30 | SpeedEvil | None. |
| 16:31.35 | nomeata | That sounds good. |
| 16:31.37 | SpeedEvil | Well, less you're starting one. |
| 16:31.45 | nomeata | No intention :-) |
| 16:31.49 | nomeata | And they also ship to Germany? |
| 16:32.09 | TRIsoft | Wait and see ;-) |
| 16:32.32 | nomeata | Hmm. I’d rather plan and see :-) |
| 16:32.41 | Morgreet | nomeata: The future is uncertain. If it weren't, I'd be a millionaire. ;-) |
| 16:32.53 | SpeedEvil | Morgreet: yes - it's horribly more complex than that. For passive probes, not really a lot more complex, as you can simply filter insanely. For active probes, it gets a hell of a lot more complex. (filtering) |
| 16:33.10 | nomeata | So they just say, they ship to anyone, but now where anyone has to live? |
| 16:33.34 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 16:33.37 | TRIsoft | The Neo will be avail worldwide for developers / all people from March 11th |
| 16:33.42 | SpeedEvil | The neo designers do not say where you have to live. |
| 16:33.50 | SpeedEvil | You can live anywhere you like! |
| 16:34.01 | nomeata | GSM would be good, I guess. |
| 16:34.02 | nomeata | :-) |
| 16:34.14 | SpeedEvil | Most places seem to be going GSM nowadays. |
| 16:34.52 | SpeedEvil | They'll ship anywhere, if that's what you are asking. |
| 16:35.13 | nomeata | But what about the power plugs for the charger? Localized packages would be good. |
| 16:35.24 | SpeedEvil | USB |
| 16:35.30 | SpeedEvil | No charger included AIUI. |
| 16:35.30 | TRIsoft | It comes with a USB charger, so don't worry. |
| 16:35.31 | koen | nomeata: go google before wasting our time |
| 16:35.41 | SpeedEvil | You can pick one up from ebay for your location for cheap. |
| 16:35.51 | buz | that's right, we rather waste it ourselves with stupid geeky discussions ;) |
| 16:36.01 | Morgreet | It'll be charged over Bluetooth. (J/K!!!!!!!!!!!! ... worth saying, just in case) |
| 16:36.02 | TRIsoft | buz: Yer |
| 16:36.37 | SpeedEvil | Point-point charging with IR laser isn't completely insane. |
| 16:36.51 | nomeata | allright, thx for the info and enjoy your discussions |
| 16:36.52 | *** part/#openmoko nomeata (i=nobody@nomeata.de) |
| 16:36.56 | TRIsoft | Yep. But the Neo doesn't have an IR port :D |
| 16:37.09 | SpeedEvil | The efficiency is some 50%. Admittedly, you do need interlocks to detect stuff getting in the beam. |
| 16:37.19 | SpeedEvil | And it can set stuff on fire if you get it wrong. |
| 16:37.47 | buz | i said it before, we need PoWifi |
| 16:38.14 | SpeedEvil | And you think the anti-radiation freaks objected to wifi :) |
| 16:38.16 | Morgreet | Already been done. I think they called it Star Wars. |
| 16:38.35 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I'd be happy if USB could power 90% of stuff. |
| 16:38.43 | SpeedEvil | That would cut down a hell of a lot of the clutter. |
| 16:39.09 | koen | yeah |
| 16:39.24 | *** join/#openmoko weez (n=weez@rrcs-24-173-249-242.sw.biz.rr.com) |
| 16:39.48 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=lofoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:39.48 | SpeedEvil | Even if there was just a 'high power' mode at 30V/0.5A, that'd suffice for a vast majority of stuff. One 'high power' enabled hub, and you just plug everything into it. |
| 16:40.10 | SpeedEvil | (of course, it'd only be allowable to turn it on if all the hardware OK that voltave) |
| 16:40.23 | Morgreet | Twas one of the design goals of Firewire. |
| 16:40.47 | koen | eye-triple-e 1394 |
| 16:41.53 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B04735.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:44.20 | Morgreet | There's good progress on FreeBoB, it could become quite a feather in the cap for Linux in the musicians area. USB isn't much liked because of latency. |
| 16:46.00 | koen | usbs main failure is that it re-encodes every bit at every hub |
| 16:46.03 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 16:46.22 | koen | so latency increases with every hub |
| 16:48.59 | loufoque | Morgreet: what's FreeBoB? Never heard of it |
| 16:49.00 | Morgreet | Oh, USB audio latency wouldn't be an issue at all if it were only 1 bit time. |
| 16:49.27 | SpeedEvil | It reencodes every bit at the hub - that causes microseconds of delay over the chain though. |
| 16:50.07 | Morgreet | loufoque: oh it's a higher level interface running on top of Firewire. A lot of commercial gear uses the BeBoB firmware, and FreeBoB is basically the FOSS reimplementaion. |
| 16:51.06 | Morgreet | freebob.sf.net |
| 16:52.25 | *** join/#openmoko Bipolar (n=bflong@70.44.55.112) |
| 16:53.22 | Morgreet | I've got a MIDI keyboard that can accept a Firewire interface card, quite cheap, and it's on the FreeBoB compatibility list, so I think I'll give it a try. |
| 17:03.28 | robtaylor | koen: yeah, i already saw :) |
| 17:05.05 | *** join/#openmoko christoph_ (n=christop@p57B03F35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:33.57 | koen | counter |
| 17:33.57 | aloril | a day 12:26:02 (1.518 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.518 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.518 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (205) |
| 17:37.59 | robtaylor | oooh |
| 17:39.53 | xkr47 | uuh aah |
| 17:44.02 | morricone | mmh … may it be that the counter is wrong? On my clock it's ~ 6 h till 2007-02-11 |
| 17:44.48 | xkr47 | I guess it counts until monday since they supposedly don't deliver on sundays.. |
| 17:45.45 | *** join/#openmoko wonea (n=wonea@wonea.demon.co.uk) |
| 17:46.00 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: They must deliver on sunday. I like to _have_ mine on monday. ;) |
| 17:46.11 | xkr47 | lol |
| 17:46.17 | xkr47 | the happiest monday in your life :) |
| 17:46.51 | stefan_schmidt | Not really. Write a test on monday and saturday. Means I have no time before sunday anyway. |
| 17:46.51 | fluffs | stefan_schmidt: no idea if koreans work sundays or not |
| 17:46.52 | xkr47 | robtaylor will be getting two ?-) |
| 17:47.08 | robtaylor | xkr47: no such luck.. |
| 17:47.13 | xkr47 | I'll get mine in a month |
| 17:47.22 | xkr47 | or maybe not even then |
| 17:47.36 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: Even if they do. They need to send him directly to germany. :) |
| 17:47.38 | xkr47 | I just bought an apartment 3 hours ago so I might be busy with moving in there :D |
| 17:47.47 | koen | robtaylor: did you see http://0pointer.de/blog about fixedpoint resampling? |
| 17:47.50 | robtaylor | xkr47: congrats :) |
| 17:47.53 | stefan_schmidt | xkr47: congrats |
| 17:47.53 | xkr47 | thx :) |
| 17:47.56 | koen | xkr47: cheers |
| 17:48.16 | xkr47 | I will get my openmoko when the dust settles, that's for sure :) |
| 17:48.21 | robtaylor | koen: yeah, i was going to point it out toyou yesterday, but you were offline =) |
| 17:48.25 | robtaylor | koen: happy days :) |
| 17:48.28 | fluffs | stefan_schmidt: yeah, may take a day or two |
| 17:48.40 | xkr47 | thx stefan_schmidt & koen too :) |
| 17:49.15 | stefan_schmidt | fluffs: Next saturday is fine for me. More time to learn. :) |
| 17:51.20 | stefan_schmidt | Anyway I like to see the code opened. Just build it for x86 and play with it during learn phases. |
| 17:51.26 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081E71F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:52.36 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r_ (n=Rac0r@p5081DEE1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 17:55.40 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54007E2A.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:56.17 | fluffs | which timezone is the counter working in? |
| 17:56.30 | SpeedEvil | The appropriate one AIUI. |
| 17:56.34 | koen | CST iirc |
| 17:56.44 | koen | the one FIC seems to use for their press releases |
| 17:57.25 | SpeedEvil | I looked at the .tw post office site. Their local post offices do open reduced hours on sat and sun. |
| 17:57.41 | SpeedEvil | Oh - is it .kr? |
| 18:00.41 | fluffs | hmm, it will be interesting to know if we get some tracking info... mine is off to work address, but i'm only in the office one day this comming week |
| 18:05.51 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 18:06.49 | koen | fluffs: I sure hope we'll get some tracking info |
| 18:11.19 | SpeedEvil | They could just activate the GPS, and have it SMS you its location. |
| 18:12.36 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 18:13.09 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - *giggle* |
| 18:13.20 | Elrond | "Hey, where's my phone gone?" ;o) |
| 18:13.45 | TRIsoft | afaik they ship with UPS, so don't worry about tracking ;-) |
| 18:14.34 | leventhal | counter |
| 18:14.34 | aloril | a day 11:45:25 (1.490 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.490 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.490 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (206) |
| 18:16.58 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@66.109.220.148) |
| 18:17.00 | morricone | xkr47: but they release the source on sunday ;) |
| 18:17.14 | xkr47 | ah yeah |
| 18:17.28 | DukeOfURL | counter |
| 18:17.28 | aloril | a day 11:42:31 (1.488 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.488 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.488 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (207) |
| 18:19.54 | fluffs | TRIsoft: better than DHL i suppose (Drop, Hide, Lose) |
| 18:20.36 | TRIsoft | *lol* nice one |
| 18:21.12 | fluffs | UPS (Usually Pranged Somewhere) |
| 18:21.29 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:21.48 | TRIsoft | :-) |
| 18:21.49 | rd_ | i hope that they can sell limited number of phone to developer ealier |
| 18:25.44 | *** join/#openmoko Bipolar (n=bflong@70.44.55.112) |
| 18:26.30 | SpeedEvil | It's only a month. |
| 18:27.43 | mjr | doesn't seem likely that the current timetable would be accelerated... |
| 18:29.35 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 18:32.19 | *** join/#openmoko _stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 18:36.43 | *** join/#openmoko lucas123 (n=Meijer@lucas.demon.nl) |
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| 18:49.20 | aloril2 | morricone: 23:59:59.9999 CST for counter |
| 19:07.37 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 19:10.37 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:11.39 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB7FD46.ipt.aol.com) |
| 19:12.55 | *** join/#openmoko paulproteus (n=paulprot@pool-151-196-232-71.balt.east.verizon.net) |
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| 19:29.26 | Morgreet | "<SpeedEvil> They could just activate the GPS, and have it SMS you its location." --- I loved that, really laughed out loud here. :-) And you know, with v2 (assuming it has wifi) we could actually do effectively that, ie. send us its location by email every time it passes through a wifi hotspot. ;-) |
| 19:30.54 | Elrond | *G* |
| 19:31.27 | Morgreet | Although hopefully we can buy v2 directly from shops. Still, it's a very funny idea. |
| 19:31.33 | Elrond | Well, if enough neos are out there, we can do uucp style mail over BT ;o) |
| 19:31.56 | Morgreet | lol |
| 19:32.02 | Morgreet | I haven't heard anyone mention uucp in a long time. Hiya old timer ;-) |
| 19:32.17 | Elrond | Yep. ;) |
| 19:32.25 | Elrond | You know, elves are old ;o) |
| 19:32.45 | Morgreet | Oh yeah! LOL, hadn't made the connection ;-) |
| 19:33.22 | Elrond | The interesting question is: How do we know, that a neo will travel in the right direction? |
| 19:33.35 | Morgaine | Well Morgaine was a Gujal, also thousands of years old ;-) |
| 19:33.42 | Elrond | ;) |
| 19:34.32 | Morgaine | (The Chronicles of Morgaine -- C.J. Cherryh. Nothing to do with Arthurian legend) |
| 19:35.05 | Morgaine | It's a heavily overloaded name |
| 19:36.24 | Morgaine | Actually, if we tracked them directly with GPS, I bet we'd find all manner of horrors in UPS/DHL/etc logistics. |
| 19:36.49 | Elrond | *G* Yep. |
| 19:37.07 | Elrond | Anyway, my court cook has finished the meal. I'll be back later. ;) |
| 19:37.08 | LittleIdiot | well, if the battery lasts that long... i doubt it ;) |
| 19:37.53 | Morgaine | Oh, how about this as a simpler alternative, doable with v1 !!!! --> Just record the path, don't transmit! Battery will last much longer, and we'll get a giggle on receipt. :-))) |
| 19:39.22 | SpeedEvil | hopefully the phone can do wake on RTC. |
| 19:39.39 | Morgaine | That would be dead useful. |
| 19:39.49 | SpeedEvil | For months 'on' time, polling networ for missed calls every few min. |
| 19:41.20 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis_ (n=Miranda@86.34.3.192) |
| 19:43.26 | LittleIdiot | you can poll for missed calls? |
| 19:44.09 | SpeedEvil | On some nets at leat AIUI |
| 19:44.25 | SpeedEvil | st |
| 19:45.23 | Morgaine | Ahh ... problem with the record-delivery path idea. I bet there's courier rules and legislation about putting live gadgets in the post. |
| 19:48.04 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB1413F.ipt.aol.com) |
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| 20:00.09 | leventhal | counter |
| 20:00.10 | aloril | a day 09:59:50 (1.417 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.417 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.417 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (208) |
| 20:00.17 | rwhitby | morning |
| 20:01.56 | Morgaine | 'Morning. Or something ;-) |
| 20:04.04 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|tablet (n=bob@p85.212.133.110.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 20:09.43 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 20:19.16 | *** join/#openmoko markit (n=konversa@host119-245-static.72-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 20:28.36 | aloril2 | it's 2007-02-11 already on some parts of world and in UTC that day starts in 3.5h |
| 20:30.09 | aloril2 | v1 counter would have claimed it relased in 1.5h (00:00:00 EET), v2 in 3.5h: I doubt either would have been right |
| 20:37.52 | Morgaine | Hehe |
| 20:46.18 | rwhitby | aloril2: it's 7:15am on 11 Feb 2007 here right now. |
| 20:47.01 | SuN | This channel is number one on the obsession-o-meter. |
| 20:47.13 | Morgaine | Number 0!!!! |
| 20:47.46 | Morgaine | Tomorrow is going to be plain frightening. |
| 20:47.55 | Stephmw | Obsession? What obsession? Oh. You mean the stopwatch? |
| 20:48.03 | Morgaine | Hehe |
| 20:48.27 | SuN | What if it's all a hype! |
| 20:48.54 | Morgaine | Then I applaud and bow to our hypemaster overlords ;-) |
| 20:49.12 | rob_w|tablet | thats right, its quite abuzz |
| 20:50.01 | *** join/#openmoko liberfiasco (n=libervis@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 20:50.16 | Morgaine | Jeez --> new Slashdot article about two under-18 teens prosecuted for sending "racy" pictures of each other to each other, and to nobody else. |
| 20:50.24 | Morgaine | It made me think about Neo ... we could make inter-phone exchanges encrypted by default to people in your own circle of friends, with GPG keys exchanged over Bluetooth. |
| 20:51.14 | SpeedEvil | There have been quite a few prosecutions in the UK for that. |
| 20:52.01 | Morgaine | Wouldn't surprise me, but we're a nanny state evolving rapidly into a police state. Whereas that prosecution was in Florida. |
| 20:52.02 | rob_w|tablet | SpeedEvil, nothing new there u just misss the "..enc my racy pic" ui |
| 20:53.10 | SpeedEvil | It's actually legal to take a 16 yo girl out for a nice gangbang, but illegal to take a 'erotic' picture of her. |
| 20:53.17 | SpeedEvil | Insane. |
| 20:53.17 | *** join/#openmoko tuxperger (n=Martin@85-156-81-230.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 20:53.18 | Morgaine | lol |
| 20:53.48 | rob_w|tablet | tsts |
| 20:54.04 | SpeedEvil | Anyway - V1 has no camera, so this is all moot :) |
| 20:54.58 | rwhitby | SpeedEvil: self-powered usb camera |
| 20:55.02 | rob_w|tablet | v2 has my vote for also not having one |
| 20:55.18 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I want a camera. |
| 20:55.32 | SpeedEvil | I don't so much want it for taking pictures of friends vomiting, or ... |
| 20:55.37 | rwhitby | I presume the lack of camera is due to the parallel use of the hardware for a large Chinese government conract. |
| 20:55.45 | SpeedEvil | I want it for taking pictures of price labels in shops. |
| 20:55.58 | SpeedEvil | And for reminding myself of the colour of those tiles. |
| 20:55.59 | Morgaine | SpeedEvil: ditto |
| 20:56.12 | Morgaine | And as a barcode reader |
| 20:56.15 | SpeedEvil | And for remembering where on the car that screw went. |
| 20:56.16 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 20:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@86.34.3.192) |
| 20:56.34 | SpeedEvil | Plus, gesture interfaces may be interesting. |
| 20:57.38 | SuN | Like... sticking your middlefinger up, and it'll call your boss? |
| 20:57.40 | tuxperger | A camera is handy... just found out that a camera we bought doesn't work with gnomemeeting |
| 20:58.03 | Morgaine | However, some people aren't allowed to take cameras into work. I wonder if that issue could be handled with a simple lens cap? If they don't trust you to keep the lens cap on, you really don't want to work for them. |
| 20:58.04 | aloril | There is no camera included. With (battery) powered USB hub, you should be able to attach to (almost) any external camera. See http://www.linuxtogo.org/gowiki/OpenMoko/Hardware for details on what is included. |
| 20:58.42 | rwhitby | hehe - wonder who triggered that. |
| 20:58.44 | SpeedEvil | There can always be a version without the camera, replacing it with a FPGA. |
| 20:58.48 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 20:58.58 | Morgaine | aloril is over-eager ;-) |
| 20:59.11 | rwhitby | bit hard to do a cmos sensor on an fpga though ... |
| 20:59.29 | SuN | Woa, is SD memory really down to < 10 EUR per GB? |
| 20:59.30 | SpeedEvil | Naah - all you need is a transparent package :) |
| 21:00.20 | tuxperger | Any info on the devel environment? |
| 21:00.20 | Morgaine | rwhitby: a compromise on my fully-modular suggestion? Just one optional plugin module, either camera or .... something. |
| 21:00.38 | SuN | I _think_ I saw my provider advertise a wireless camera. |
| 21:01.47 | SpeedEvil | I suppose it wouldn't be too impossible to swap the lens for one that focussed on its surface, to do a fingerprint scanner only. |
| 21:02.31 | Morgaine | Even better and simpler, just make the camera an easy plug in/out jobbie .... then those who aren't allowed to take cameras into the office can just leave the module at home. |
| 21:03.49 | SpeedEvil | Which makes the case rather harder. |
| 21:03.54 | Morgaine | And that has a HUGE benefit for an open phone: the camera module will be upgradeable as technology improves! |
| 21:03.58 | SuN | Weird... it's a remote controllable UMTS camera. |
| 21:04.06 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - saw that. |
| 21:05.19 | SpeedEvil | I suppose if you could do it as a removable from the back |
| 21:05.19 | SpeedEvil | and you pull the battery to take it out... |
| 21:05.20 | Morgaine | Good idea. |
| 21:05.20 | SuN | http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=11838 |
| 21:05.20 | SuN | (expensive) bluetooth camera |
| 21:06.45 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@DN800cc50b.Stanford.EDU) |
| 21:07.24 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 21:07.26 | Morgaine | Not bad actually ... nice that it has an optical viewfinder too, for DSLR fans. |
| 21:08.42 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 21:08.51 | Morgaine | Hehe |
| 21:08.57 | SpeedEvil | And a folded 10cm diameter lens. |
| 21:09.19 | Morgaine | Those multi-folded lenses are a nice idea. |
| 21:09.26 | SpeedEvil | Actually - a good VGA is OK. |
| 21:09.28 | SpeedEvil | Well. |
| 21:09.33 | SpeedEvil | I'm not sure for a phone. |
| 21:09.41 | SpeedEvil | For a phone, I want something robust. |
| 21:09.54 | SpeedEvil | I do not want something that is going to be damaged by sand, ... |
| 21:10.15 | SpeedEvil | Dust gets into folded lenses lots easier. |
| 21:10.15 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 21:11.03 | koen | dust gets into dslrs pretty quick as well |
| 21:12.13 | SpeedEvil | I was meaning 'any lenses with gaps'. |
| 21:13.11 | koen | saves you a subscription to a gym as well |
| 21:13.30 | rwhitby | hmm - that's gonna make the phone bulky when they integrate that into v2 ... |
| 21:13.33 | Morgaine | Quite a few have weather seals. Nikon D200 and Canon 5D too. |
| 21:13.47 | koen | 5d doesn't have real weather sealing |
| 21:14.37 | Morgaine | Odd, at that price ... |
| 21:15.27 | koen | that's canon for you |
| 21:15.41 | koen | anything outside the 1D line is dumbed down |
| 21:15.47 | koen | expensive, but dumbed down |
| 21:16.39 | *** join/#openmoko esden (n=esden@p54994CF1.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 21:19.14 | Morgaine | I've got Nikons, but I'm agnostic. I've bought Sony for family, and have been recommending Konica-Minolta (now bought by Sony, sadly) to friends, and will prolly buy a Panasonic compact for self. |
| 21:20.38 | koen | I went for canon because they have the best macro equipment |
| 21:20.39 | Morgaine | And a FIC cameraphone :-))))) |
| 21:21.38 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 21:22.12 | *** part/#openmoko markit (n=konversa@host119-245-static.72-81-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 21:22.13 | WillySilly | the Panasonics are nice |
| 21:22.21 | Morgaine | Canon do lots of great stuff. They really rose in my estimation with the anti-dust tech in the 400D, after years of them saying that "dust is not a problem". |
| 21:22.34 | WillySilly | I have a Nikon D70s |
| 21:22.53 | Morgaine | Very nice, the D70s. I have a D70. |
| 21:22.54 | koen | dust is not a problem if you don't use your camera |
| 21:23.03 | Morgaine | koen: hehehe |
| 21:23.27 | WillySilly | I also have a speedlight |
| 21:23.40 | Morgaine | Me too, SB800 |
| 21:23.45 | WillySilly | same here |
| 21:24.07 | Morgaine | Very cool to control a pile of flashes remotely. |
| 21:24.19 | koen | indeed |
| 21:24.22 | WillySilly | Yeah |
| 21:24.27 | koen | but somehow it annoys my girlfriend |
| 21:26.12 | *** join/#openmoko CoreDump|home (n=mhentges@hentges.net) |
| 21:26.15 | *** join/#openmoko tuxperger (n=Martin@85-156-81-230.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 21:29.11 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@205.147.39.198) |
| 21:32.40 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 21:54.27 | Morgaine | I rather like the idea of gathering/exchanging GPG keys from friends automatically over Bluetooth, and then using them by default for comms. Just wondering how to control it, and whether it should be fully automatic or partly manual for trust assignment. |
| 21:55.02 | rwhitby | automatic gathering, manual trust assignment. |
| 21:55.25 | Morgaine | Unsync'd? Do trust assignment later? |
| 21:55.42 | rwhitby | (since you need to do id verification so as not to weaken the web of trust) |
| 21:56.20 | rwhitby | it should pop up a "fingerprint is XXXX - Accept and Trust?" |
| 21:56.27 | Morgaine | Yeah. I guess it could be an option whether to require trust assignment at point of gathering or not. |
| 21:57.29 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1177563819.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:57.37 | SpeedEvil | If it's user initiated, then 'I've met him/her" shouold be a reasonable default. |
| 21:58.00 | SpeedEvil | With the phones playing a little tune at the same time to indicate sync. |
| 21:58.12 | SpeedEvil | And make sure you're not getting someone elses key. |
| 21:58.21 | rwhitby | as long as you check the fingerprint at the same time, to prevent man-in-the-middle bluetooth attacks :-) |
| 21:58.40 | rwhitby | CoreDump|home: hey - I need to talk to you about altboot! |
| 21:58.42 | SpeedEvil | I've got PDF0 version. |
| 21:58.49 | SpeedEvil | It sucks. |
| 21:58.50 | Morgaine | Yeah, that's the issue with after-the-event trust assignment ... did you get the key while looking at the person you know, or was it later after you were passing Eve. |
| 21:58.53 | SpeedEvil | Though it is very thin. |
| 21:59.07 | CoreDump|home | rwhitby, hi there |
| 21:59.36 | rwhitby | CoreDump|home: can we discuss altboot in #oe? |
| 22:04.52 | *** join/#openmoko RevTig (n=Tig@82.153.215.237) |
| 22:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive_ (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 22:11.14 | RevTig | just listening to OpenMoko @ LugRadio with the interview with MickeyL |
| 22:11.46 | CoreDump|home | ~praise mickey|sports |
| 22:11.56 | apt | All hail mickey|sports! |
| 22:14.14 | CoreDump|home | there's an interview w/ sean on youtube |
| 22:14.29 | RevTig | an aspect that they did not cover, and I might be reading this wrong, but isn't one of the reasons FIC is supporting OpenMoko is to create a standard platform that any manufacturers can run and then all the HW manufacturers can get back to building devices without them all having to run their own in house software teams |
| 22:15.23 | RevTig | and then the manufacturers can roll their own Openmoko installs for teens, grans and geeks ? |
| 22:16.12 | Morgaine | RevTig: in an ideal world, maybe. In this one, I think FIC's doing it just because Sean has a vision. ;-) |
| 22:16.39 | RevTig | ah yes :) and all hail the vision :) :) :) |
| 22:17.01 | Morgaine | It's what drew me to OpenMoko, more than any corporate stance. ;-) |
| 22:17.04 | CoreDump|home | !praise The Vision (TM) |
| 22:18.34 | RevTig | damnit I must stop posting when on holiday in other worlds :) |
| 22:18.42 | Morgaine | Hehehe |
| 22:19.37 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B03F35.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:20.35 | Morgaine | We're all in slightly different worlds. Just ask Einstein, Lorentz, and the QM guys with their many-worlds interpretation. ;-) |
| 22:21.36 | CoreDump|home | what is it w/ FIC and sunday anyway? |
| 22:21.45 | RevTig | eh? |
| 22:22.05 | CoreDump|home | The developer launch is due next sunday |
| 22:22.44 | RevTig | They want to party late and have a valid excuse of putting off the monday morning e-mail deluge? |
| 22:22.50 | RevTig | for even |
| 22:23.09 | CoreDump|home | hmm, sounds like a worthy plan then |
| 22:24.04 | RevTig | any invites going? :) |
| 22:24.05 | Morgaine | Well, while both the 11-Feb and 11-Mar events are on Sundays, the 11-Sep one is a Tuesday ... so the real question is, what's up with FIC and the number 11? ;-) |
| 22:24.15 | RevTig | hmm |
| 22:24.21 | SpeedEvil | Sean has 11 fingers, diddn't you know? |
| 22:24.25 | Morgaine | Hahahahaha |
| 22:24.27 | CoreDump|home | =D |
| 22:24.31 | CoreDump|home | good one |
| 22:24.38 | RevTig | that explains his 400 wpm typing :) |
| 22:24.45 | Morgaine | lol |
| 22:25.49 | Psi_ | the first cellphone call was made on April 3, 1973, so thats not where 11 comes from |
| 22:26.17 | RevTig | aye, I was wondering if it is a lucky number in TW |
| 22:27.00 | RevTig | either that and there is going to be something insanely geeky involving unix timestamps :) |
| 22:27.50 | CoreDump|home | heh |
| 22:28.09 | SpeedEvil | The unix epoch should have begun on the day of the first moon landing. |
| 22:29.11 | RevTig | ah yes but in this human rights culture on the internet, we must take into account the beliefs of the people who believe the moon landings were faked |
| 22:29.26 | RevTig | :P |
| 22:29.38 | mjr | 11 is a clear reference to the Kingdom of Loathing on-line game |
| 22:29.49 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 22:30.16 | RevTig | ooo where is my turtle... |
| 22:30.18 | Morgaine | They were obviously faked. Al Gore didn't invent the Moon until much later. |
| 22:30.24 | RevTig | GPWM |
| 22:30.47 | RevTig | and also Ted Stevens had not got a drainpipe up there too |
| 22:30.54 | benJIman | http://xkcd.com/c202.html |
| 22:31.02 | mjr | http://kol.coldfront.net/thekolwiki/index.php/Eleven ; also has Eleven-references at the end |
| 22:31.10 | mjr | perhaps FIC got it from Spinal Tap |
| 22:32.19 | Psi_ | damnit, so close |
| 22:32.36 | RevTig | ah our volume control goes to 11 ? |
| 22:33.04 | Psi_ | damni, if you xor all the ascii values for the guy's name who made the first callphone call, "Martin Cooper" you get 10 |
| 22:33.33 | RevTig | that was geeky |
| 22:33.37 | Psi_ | totally |
| 22:33.50 | Elrond | counter |
| 22:33.50 | aloril | a day 07:26:09 (1.310 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.310 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.310 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (209) |
| 22:35.41 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-137-9.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 22:36.36 | CoreDump|home | n8 all |
| 22:43.59 | *** join/#openmoko holycow (n=buzz@S01060016b6b53675.vf.shawcable.net) |
| 22:45.42 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@86.34.3.192) |
| 22:46.42 | Elrond | Morgaine - the recipient in moko-uucp should be declared using gps coords. ;o) That way, the phone can decide, if it is traveling in the right direction and should relay the message or forget it after a week. ;o) |
| 22:58.59 | SpeedEvil | You wrote it? |
| 22:59.00 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 22:59.58 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - No, it's spec-ware. ;o) |
| 23:00.24 | Elrond | counter |
| 23:00.25 | aloril | a day 06:59:35 (1.291 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.291 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.291 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (210) |
| 23:00.31 | SpeedEvil | Mischan :) |
| 23:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko emulsion (n=emulsion@cpe-071-065-217-026.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 23:02.22 | Elrond | "Mischan"? |
| 23:02.33 | Kero | mischief? |
| 23:02.44 | SpeedEvil | It was a communication on the incorrect channel. |
| 23:03.01 | Kero | twice :P |
| 23:03.08 | Morgaine | As in "misstell" in MMOGs |
| 23:03.19 | Clint | or ECHAN |
| 23:03.39 | Elrond | STATUS_WRONG_CHANNEL *duck* ;o) |
| 23:04.21 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 23:13.07 | RevTig | night all |
| 23:13.16 | Morgaine | NN |
| 23:14.41 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-189-208.cust.broadway.se) |
| 23:22.23 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@205.147.39.198) |
| 23:29.36 | *** join/#openmoko damg (n=damien@adsl-68-21-14-60.dsl.chcgil.ameritech.net) |
| 23:37.41 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 23:42.51 | ajturner | counter |
| 23:42.51 | aloril | a day 06:17:10 (1.262 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a day (29.262 days) for devices for *ANYBODY* for $350 (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a day (213.262 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info (211) |
| 23:54.25 | holycow | cool |
| 23:55.19 | Morgaine | I think I've just encountered my first DVD produced by a sane techie, instead of by an ego-tripping artist directed by a media marketting droid. It's a cheap transfer of Leon, and it launches directly into a menu containing the word "Setup" as an option. No adverts, no copyright warnings, no noise, and no image cycling. A complete revelation. ;-) |
| 23:56.27 | holycow | thtas mostly because it wasn't produced by a holywood production |
| 23:56.42 | holycow | in the us they have requirements for all that stuff |
