| 00:10.05 | Morgreet | Yeeha, 2.6.20's out! |
| 00:10.09 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 00:11.54 | rwhitby | Morgreet: we've already got it in the nslu2-linux package feeds :-) |
| 00:14.58 | SpeedEvil | Oh jesus - stupid patent http://www.patentstorm.us/patents/5332238-description.html - they patented the gasket - as applied to a SAW touchscreen display. |
| 00:15.34 | SpeedEvil | You need a gasket to seal the display, so you hunt round to find what material works. About the third thing you try will be some sort of foam. |
| 00:15.40 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 00:16.15 | SpeedEvil | (I'm wondering about a hard-surfaced scratchproof neo and was looking for transducer makers.) |
| 00:38.12 | rwhitby | counter |
| 00:38.12 | aloril | a week 05:21:47 (7.223 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week (35.223 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week (219.223 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 00:42.14 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 00:51.16 | Morgreet | rwhitby: wow! (re kernel) It may be a Slug, but you guys are like lightning :-) |
| 00:51.55 | rwhitby | we track the -rc's closely, mainly cause we have bugfixes in them for our latest hardware. |
| 00:52.46 | Morgreet | Aha, makes sense. Not so much a love for the bleeding edge, as a desire to keep the edge non-bleeding ;-) |
| 00:57.24 | rwhitby | yeah, the next big one will be when the ixp ethernet driver enters mainline ... |
| 01:02.12 | *** join/#openmoko celluphai (n=x@ool-44c054ae.dyn.optonline.net) |
| 01:02.52 | celluphai | Any carriers picking this up in the US? |
| 01:03.35 | cjb | no, you buy it separately and add a GSM account. |
| 01:03.42 | LoRez | celluphai: it'll work with any gsm carrier. |
| 01:04.20 | celluphai | o i c . Im stuck with CDMA |
| 01:04.23 | celluphai | :( |
| 01:04.33 | cjb | eh, you can't be that stuck. |
| 01:04.48 | celluphai | 1year left in contract |
| 01:06.44 | *** join/#openmoko clinton_ (n=clinton@c-68-49-172-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:08.50 | *** join/#openmoko clinton__ (n=clinton@c-68-49-172-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:09.02 | *** join/#openmoko clinton_ (n=clinton@c-68-49-172-183.hsd1.md.comcast.net) |
| 01:29.04 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@81.193.128.244) |
| 01:55.20 | *** join/#openmoko dimigon (n=brwneyes@S01060010b50e2772.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:08.03 | *** join/#openmoko vetetux (n=vetetix@126.24-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 02:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko rep (n=rep@vs187078.vserver.de) |
| 02:31.21 | *** join/#openmoko jacobfan (n=jacob@fw.exoweb.net) |
| 02:44.08 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@c-66-30-202-112.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 02:46.06 | *** join/#openmoko cartesian1984 (n=descarte@69-161-80-217.bflony.adelphia.net) |
| 02:47.21 | cartesian1984 | Salutations. When can the wiki-equipped Neo1973 follow-up be expected? (and if you've heard a lot of this, I'm sorry) |
| 02:49.24 | cartesian1984 | Er, wifi-equipped* :) |
| 02:49.37 | cartesian1984 | Although wiki-equipped is something I'd like to see also :) |
| 02:49.48 | SpeedEvil | At least a year |
| 02:49.50 | SpeedEvil | prolly |
| 02:50.07 | SpeedEvil | Maybe 9 months if the first release is wildly successful, and there is lots of money. |
| 02:51.45 | SpeedEvil | The 6 - well, 7 months is time till the phones are released in mass. |
| 02:52.29 | cartesian1984 | Thanks. Okay. I can wait. It sounds like a lot of potential fun. Are they releasing an SDK or anything? |
| 02:54.18 | SpeedEvil | a week till the source is released |
| 02:54.23 | SpeedEvil | and some devs get phones |
| 02:54.36 | SpeedEvil | a month and a week till you can buy for $350 |
| 02:54.46 | SpeedEvil | 7 months till large scale release |
| 02:57.15 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 02:59.27 | cartesian1984 | Will the price be reduced following large scale release, and by how much, do you think? |
| 02:59.35 | SpeedEvil | No clue. |
| 02:59.51 | SpeedEvil | I expect it to depend on market conditions at the time. |
| 03:00.06 | SpeedEvil | Go and compare the current neo spec with similar phones in terms of possible features and hardware. |
| 03:00.15 | SpeedEvil | $350 isn't unreasonable. |
| 03:00.23 | cartesian1984 | True. |
| 03:00.31 | SpeedEvil | Even on a straight hardware comparison on some. |
| 03:00.31 | cjb | considering it isn't being subsidised by a carrier, yeah. |
| 03:00.49 | SpeedEvil | If it was subsidised - and that may be possible for some carriers, it could be less. |
| 03:01.05 | cjb | well, I dunno about that, the hardware seems underpowered to me. But I don't care, of course. |
| 03:01.05 | SpeedEvil | As the phone part of the phone is not open sourced, and could probably be locked to one carrier. |
| 03:01.15 | SpeedEvil | The _cpu_ is underpowered. |
| 03:01.40 | SpeedEvil | However, it can probably just about do half resolution full motion video |
| 03:01.44 | SpeedEvil | and mp3 |
| 03:01.50 | SpeedEvil | which is really all you need. |
| 03:01.55 | cartesian1984 | The phone part of the phone? What do you mean? |
| 03:01.59 | SpeedEvil | Unless you've got another killer app. |
| 03:02.06 | cjb | so is the lack of 3G, wifi, a camera.. |
| 03:02.13 | SpeedEvil | The phone part is talked to over a simple interface |
| 03:02.20 | SpeedEvil | it's not open sourced. |
| 03:02.29 | SpeedEvil | So it is pretty much just a modem. |
| 03:02.46 | SpeedEvil | That in principle could be locked to a carrier, and have that carrier subsidise the phone. |
| 03:02.52 | cartesian1984 | Thanks for answering all my questions. |
| 03:03.27 | SpeedEvil | npo. |
| 03:03.29 | SpeedEvil | np. |
| 03:03.29 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@203-206-183-196.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 03:03.53 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001310d36705.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 03:03.57 | SpeedEvil | Expect much more concrete infromation about the phone in the next couple of weeks. |
| 03:04.08 | SpeedEvil | As the first devs get their phones and post pictures/... |
| 03:11.17 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 03:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 03:40.49 | *** join/#openmoko sunzy (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 03:43.18 | sunzy | hello everyone |
| 03:44.59 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:51.39 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-144-131-228-189.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 04:26.42 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668517.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 04:31.29 | *** join/#openmoko wbx_ (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-023.eplus-online.de) |
| 04:35.38 | thedaniel | counter |
| 04:35.38 | aloril | a week 01:24:21 (7.059 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week (35.059 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week (219.059 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 04:35.54 | *** join/#openmoko sunzy (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 04:51.44 | *** join/#openmoko sunzy (n=sunzy@218.242.154.170) |
| 04:59.10 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:10.13 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 05:12.41 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@c-24-60-178-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 05:12.57 | jtoy | openmoko doesn't have wifi? |
| 05:13.00 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 05:14.18 | jtoy | that sucks: no free drivers for power-efficient chips. |
| 05:14.30 | jtoy | no wifi is really a burden |
| 05:15.02 | wbx_ | jtoy: it is a phone, not a laptop ;) |
| 05:15.18 | jtoy | gps is much easier to use with wifi in it |
| 05:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko gabau1 (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 05:21.47 | *** part/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 05:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko careo (n=djensen@208.71.31.193) |
| 05:40.52 | *** join/#openmoko Ycros (n=Ycros@gnaw.yi.org) |
| 05:44.21 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-233-175.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 05:50.28 | jacobfan | any way to add a third party wifi to the phone? |
| 05:55.04 | aloril | yes, (battery) powered USB hub |
| 06:00.00 | aloril | counter |
| 06:00.00 | aloril | 6 days 23:59:59 (7.000 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (35.000 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (219.000 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 06:00.20 | aloril | missed for exactly week ;-) |
| 06:00.52 | aloril | counter |
| 06:00.53 | aloril | 6 days 23:59:07 (6.999 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.999 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.999 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 06:01.15 | aloril | week feels almost 'soon' for source |
| 06:01.27 | Clint | almost |
| 06:27.56 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 06:31.03 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 06:44.10 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 06:45.54 | *** join/#openmoko PeteSkeet (n=pedrona@cpc3-nfds1-0-0-cust79.lei3.cable.ntl.com) |
| 06:48.07 | *** join/#openmoko osochebol (i=HPTVN@222.253.84.196) |
| 06:49.38 | *** join/#openmoko jeddy3 (n=mattiast@gw.sbg.se) |
| 06:52.48 | *** part/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 06:53.25 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 07:03.36 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 07:04.17 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|usa (n=bob@64-60-160-98.static-ip.telepacific.net) |
| 07:04.57 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-233-175.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 07:17.49 | *** join/#openmoko friede1 (n=fwolff@dsl-242-233-175.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 07:38.24 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-130-46.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 07:43.25 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC (i=chuck-th@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 07:45.54 | *** join/#openmoko eikowerk (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 07:47.17 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 07:51.50 | *** join/#openmoko meandtheshell (n=markus@85-125-230-204.dynamic.xdsl-line.inode.at) |
| 07:54.24 | *** join/#openmoko eikowerk (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 07:58.45 | rob_w|usa | koen, feels like gtk gets a lot of substantial patches these days |
| 07:59.40 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:00.46 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 08:20.06 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 08:26.51 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:29.45 | rwhitby | it will be interesting if the G(PE)2 stuff gets into OE in the next six days ... |
| 08:30.21 | koen | [09:00] koen: Do you already have OE recipes for gpephone? |
| 08:30.21 | koen | [09:04] florian: koen: yes, i just need to change the download locations and then i can push them |
| 08:30.21 | koen | [09:06] florian: I'm just uploading an OE-built VMware image with it. |
| 08:30.47 | koen | that was 30 minutes ago :) |
| 08:32.12 | koen | probably because it isn;t there yet |
| 08:32.43 | koen | I haven't discovered the screenshots yet |
| 08:32.50 | rwhitby | oh, the email was sent prematurely :-) |
| 08:36.55 | rwhitby | wow, the gpephone svn repo has a "marketing" subdir. |
| 08:39.46 | *** join/#openmoko ecraven (n=nex@eutyche.swe.uni-linz.ac.at) |
| 08:39.47 | ecraven | hey all! |
| 08:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 08:43.08 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 08:46.18 | *** join/#openmoko eikowerk (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 08:49.24 | CM | koen: The first pic here looks like a screenshot: http://scap.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 08:49.59 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos_ (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 08:55.16 | Stephmw | mornin' |
| 08:55.33 | koen | hey Stephmw |
| 09:06.02 | buz | that looks nifty |
| 09:06.09 | buz | much better than the bloody orange ;) |
| 09:06.36 | *** join/#openmoko martinh (n=martinh@80.187.213.63) |
| 09:08.16 | buz | the 4:3 one is from an universal or something? |
| 09:15.30 | ecraven | would it be possible to port Qt to the neo1973? |
| 09:15.43 | hrw | qt3 or qt4? |
| 09:16.10 | ecraven | either |
| 09:16.10 | hrw | both can be used - both are in OpenEmbedded already |
| 09:16.19 | ecraven | ah, cool |
| 09:16.34 | koen | port? |
| 09:16.37 | koen | port!?!?!? |
| 09:16.39 | koen | port!?!?!?!? |
| 09:16.42 | koen | OMG PORT!!!! |
| 09:17.01 | koen | OMG ROM!!! |
| 09:17.19 | ecraven | so the neo1973 will be available around the middle of march? |
| 09:17.19 | hrw | kOEn: shut up you romcloner! |
| 09:17.19 | hrw | :D |
| 09:17.33 | hrw | march? |
| 09:17.40 | CM | counter |
| 09:17.40 | aloril | 6 days 20:42:19 (6.863 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.863 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.863 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 09:17.42 | koen | fastest cl0n3r in the w3st |
| 09:17.45 | hrw | I want it on my desk in 10 days |
| 09:18.03 | ecraven | hehe, i'm not a selected developer i think.. |
| 09:18.30 | ecraven | will it be as cool as it seems? :) |
| 09:19.07 | ecraven | what's oabi/eabi? |
| 09:19.12 | XorA | koen: remind me tomorrow to run EABI on Neo |
| 09:19.41 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 09:20.08 | XorA | actually EABI is running on my smdk2440 to it will work fine on Neo |
| 09:26.34 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 09:34.19 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-208-126.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 09:38.19 | *** join/#openmoko lardman (n=lardman@enpc-smm11.bath.ac.uk) |
| 09:39.21 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |
| 09:46.19 | *** join/#openmoko eikowerk (n=eikonos@S01060020ed569ad7.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 09:46.53 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 09:46.56 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 09:53.58 | *** join/#openmoko vics (n=vics@217.21.35.33) |
| 09:56.33 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh05 (n=amarsh04@144.131.239.79) |
| 10:20.47 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p54AA5532.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:20.54 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 10:25.58 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 10:33.17 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 10:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko pjz (n=pj@zachs.place.org) |
| 10:46.02 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2FC7F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:46.57 | *** join/#openmoko ValiSystM (n=ValiSyst@lns-bzn-50f-81-56-207-165.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 10:47.43 | *** join/#openmoko ValiSystM (n=ValiSyst@lns-bzn-50f-81-56-207-165.adsl.proxad.net) |
| 11:24.27 | *** join/#openmoko Belutz (n=belutz@ubuntu/member/belutz) |
| 11:34.05 | Belutz | hi anyone |
| 11:34.11 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 11:34.21 | Belutz | is there a good article about openmoko that i could put in my blog? |
| 11:44.41 | Stephmw | the topic lists the best resources for information currently |
| 11:45.44 | XorA | Belutz: wait for Feb 11 |
| 11:45.52 | XorA | Belutz: when people can talk |
| 11:50.09 | Belutz | XorA, so i can't post about openmoko right now? |
| 11:50.19 | Belutz | is it true that you can run "apt-get install" in open moko? :D |
| 11:50.22 | hrw | you can |
| 11:50.25 | PeteSkeet | newbie alert .. how can I buy one of these phones ? Im in UK |
| 11:50.47 | XorA | PeteSkeet: you wait until march |
| 11:50.50 | TRIsoft | PeteSkeet: You can't. Wait for March 11th. |
| 11:50.53 | PeteSkeet | thnx |
| 11:51.12 | XorA | Belutz: you can post all you like, the developers are under NDA |
| 11:51.42 | Belutz | :) |
| 11:52.34 | Belutz | can you install apache in that device? |
| 11:52.50 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 11:53.08 | hrw | yes |
| 11:53.16 | XorA | Belutz: if its in OE, then getting it on Neo will be ten minute job |
| 11:53.38 | Belutz | kewl |
| 11:54.07 | Belutz | will there be a 3G version of this device? |
| 11:55.29 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 11:55.31 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 12:00.53 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lumison.wolfsonmicro.com) |
| 12:01.47 | koen | rwhitby: MACHINE_FEATURES are meant to reflect features present "out of the box" |
| 12:02.12 | koen | rwhitby: so it would be cleaner to add bluez stuff to mokoslug-image instead of appending to MACHINE_FEATURES |
| 12:04.44 | aloril | counter |
| 12:04.44 | aloril | 6 days 17:55:15 (6.747 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.747 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.747 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 12:05.45 | aloril | Belutz: see topic roadmap link: about 3G: not yet known |
| 12:06.22 | Belutz | aloril, thanks |
| 12:09.07 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl51B66428.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 12:12.06 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178196214.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 12:12.34 | rwhitby | koen: nod |
| 12:16.49 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-47-201-252.lond-th.dynamic.dial.as9105.com) |
| 12:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl51B66428.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 12:22.51 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:23.16 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 12:24.12 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 12:25.49 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:25.50 | *** join/#openmoko cktakahasi (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 12:25.56 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
| 12:31.04 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 12:31.14 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 12:49.51 | robtaylor | koen: soundslike a good plan |
| 12:52.11 | Belutz | may i use the image of FIC Neo1973 in openmoko.com in my blog? |
| 12:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 12:55.43 | mjr | Sean authorized, via e-mail, the use of the neo images on the site under GFDL: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002080.html |
| 12:55.52 | mjr | however, I don't know if said e-mail is legally binding |
| 12:57.11 | mjr | at least the wikipedia people seem to want that in writing, though if they get it under GFDL here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:1112FIC326x550.jpg at some point, the writing is probably done |
| 12:58.13 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 12:58.40 | mjr | in a personal capacity, I'd just take Sean's mailing list word for it, but this is not legal advice :] |
| 12:58.51 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 13:01.05 | SpeedEvil | At worst, it could be - as sean is a major player in neo, his problem, if he's said something that is false. Copyright infringement is a civil, not a criminal matter, in these sorts of cases. No court anywhere would convict where you have any form of communication from the organisation saying 'yes' without further comment saying no. |
| 13:02.11 | Ycros | it would be very damaging to them to go against that word |
| 13:02.42 | koen | "Hello, our internal organization is a mess, please buy from another company" |
| 13:02.45 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - and practically, they have little reason to. |
| 13:02.56 | mjr | all true :) |
| 13:03.29 | *** part/#openmoko Zer0HiT (n=Z@cpe-24-195-252-248.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 13:06.07 | Belutz | can someone review my writing http://www.belutz.net/2007/02/05/openmoko/ thanks |
| 13:06.59 | pH5 | Belutz: "any way they ee fit." |
| 13:07.34 | Belutz | pH5, thanks :) |
| 13:07.51 | SpeedEvil | http://www.belutz.net/2007/02/05/openmoko/ thanks |
| 13:07.52 | SpeedEvil | doh |
| 13:08.42 | pH5 | SpeedEvil: I happen to know people who talk in their sleep. Never saw anyone typing, though. |
| 13:09.08 | SpeedEvil | Personally. 'movement, on a mission' ee fit -> see fit |
| 13:09.55 | SpeedEvil | ', and quality' 'and quality' |
| 13:10.32 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 13:10.33 | Belutz | thanks SpeedEvil |
| 13:10.49 | SpeedEvil | The openmoko... sentance is ratehr long. |
| 13:11.05 | Belutz | SpeedEvil, any suggestions? |
| 13:11.15 | SpeedEvil | Is the misspelling of 'kommunikations' intentional? |
| 13:11.31 | Belutz | SpeedEvil, i took it from the press release |
| 13:11.39 | Belutz | and yes it is intentional |
| 13:12.08 | mjr | considering it's a gtk phone, maybe it should've been OpenMogo ;P |
| 13:12.40 | Belutz | hahahahaha |
| 13:13.06 | SpeedEvil | Or if RMS is involved - Gnu-OpenMoko. |
| 13:13.06 | ecraven | can't it use qt too? |
| 13:13.13 | hrw | http://toys4boys.pl/show.php?id=803&pos=1 - must have for neo1973 users ;) |
| 13:13.27 | mjr | ecraven, yeah sure, but you'll probably have to install it yourself |
| 13:13.35 | mjr | ie. not in default packaging |
| 13:13.39 | SpeedEvil | I would say "with a mission" rather than "on a mission" |
| 13:14.01 | ecraven | hrw: what exactly is that? |
| 13:14.06 | mjr | coffee-warmer? |
| 13:14.10 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-151-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:14.16 | ecraven | ah.. nice |
| 13:14.24 | Belutz | SpeedEvil, ok |
| 13:14.30 | hrw | coffee warmer with powered usb hub |
| 13:14.45 | Belutz | i guess i still have to improve my english |
| 13:15.18 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux (n=sri@59.92.149.224) |
| 13:15.59 | koen | Belutz: s/apt-get install/ipkg install/ |
| 13:16.19 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl51B66428.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 13:16.27 | Belutz | koen, ok :) |
| 13:17.42 | SpeedEvil | It's much better than my ? |
| 13:18.31 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@193.170.68.74) |
| 13:19.05 | hrw | I got contact from one of Polish companies specialized in GPS, telemetrics about neo1973 ;D |
| 13:19.48 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI_ (n=chatzill@c-75-68-22-196.hsd1.nh.comcast.net) |
| 13:21.30 | SpeedEvil | Wacky. Confused ebay seller marked my 28mm SDS+ bit as paid, and sent it without me actually going through the troublesome process of paying. |
| 13:21.31 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 13:22.14 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B04187.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 13:23.50 | SpeedEvil | hrw: in what way? |
| 13:24.42 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: that's a nice seller... what else does he want to give away... err, I mean sell? |
| 13:25.08 | SpeedEvil | I assume it's a mistake - was meaning to send to a friend. |
| 13:25.13 | SpeedEvil | the line. |
| 13:25.23 | SpeedEvil | not woken up properly yet. |
| 13:25.25 | hrw | SpeedEvil: now they want to know what do I think about it |
| 13:25.32 | SpeedEvil | ah. |
| 13:25.52 | SpeedEvil | Do you mean position logging hardware? |
| 13:25.55 | SpeedEvil | they make? |
| 13:26.09 | hrw | did not yet checked what they do |
| 13:26.33 | ecraven | is there an emulator for the neo? |
| 13:27.10 | mjr | no |
| 13:27.25 | mjr | and for most purposes, you don't need one really |
| 13:27.58 | hrw | SpeedEvil: pos logging hardware to track cars position |
| 13:27.59 | mjr | with Xoo you should be able to run the interface pretty much as is; qemu can do some ARM emulation if you really need though apparently it's a bit limited |
| 13:28.05 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 13:30.29 | ecraven | mjr: i could play around until i actually get one :) |
| 13:32.21 | SpeedEvil | In most cases - other than CPU speed, emulation isn't really very helpful. Simply because a large part of the difficulty is that matching hardware is moderately unavaialble. |
| 13:32.33 | SpeedEvil | 300DPI screens with touchscreens isn't especially common. |
| 13:32.39 | SpeedEvil | aren't |
| 13:33.24 | *** join/#openmoko l3010o (n=leo@n219079066049.netvigator.com) |
| 13:33.26 | mjr | yah |
| 13:33.43 | *** join/#openmoko lucas123 (n=Meijer@lucas.demon.nl) |
| 13:34.06 | mjr | but anyway, ecraven, you should be able to compile the code release due soon and then run it in Xoo to get some play-feel of it :] |
| 13:34.19 | ecraven | i'll have a look at xoo :) |
| 13:34.37 | koen | counter |
| 13:34.37 | aloril | 6 days 16:25:22 (6.684 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.684 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.684 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 13:39.42 | Morgreet | I've just figured out what Sun's sales division is there for: it's to prevent people buying Sun kit. What a mess. Come back Dell, all is forgiven. |
| 13:40.18 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 13:40.19 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 13:41.31 | Stephmw | Morgreet: That's a bit strong. Asking Dell back so soon? |
| 13:41.55 | Stephmw | Morgreet: Surely your datacentre would perform better with turd sandwiches linked by gb eth? |
| 13:42.22 | koen | dells gets you replacements pretty fast |
| 13:42.39 | koen | that's a good thing, since the average dell breaks monthly |
| 13:42.39 | leventhal | If you've got their gold support plan yeah |
| 13:43.06 | leventhal | I've got the best of both worlds.. sun servers and dell desktops |
| 13:43.19 | leventhal | I get the pleasure of using a dell laptop as a desktop |
| 13:43.46 | leventhal | I _hate_ how it hibernates randomly .. had it repaired twice and still does it |
| 13:43.46 | CM | GPE on /. http://linux.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/05/130208 |
| 13:44.51 | Morgreet | Stephmw: Dell's industrial stuff is actually pretty good, and their sales system is dead slick. The main issue with Dell in UK is that they sell at X2 markup, despite the factory being in Ireland -- their profits here are just outrageous. |
| 13:44.58 | koen | I wonder how much trolls will use "open" and "greenphone" in the same sentence at that /. article |
| 13:45.21 | CM | Same here.. |
| 13:45.48 | *** join/#openmoko veroli (n=n@BSN-210-239-80.dial-up.dsl.siol.net) |
| 13:48.08 | SpeedEvil | What is the greenphone? |
| 13:48.38 | hrw | trolltech phone |
| 13:48.44 | SpeedEvil | ah. |
| 13:48.49 | hrw | developer platform for qtopia phone edition |
| 13:48.52 | hrw | 2.4 kernel |
| 13:49.01 | hrw | many closed parts |
| 13:49.20 | Morgreet | koen: well, we shouldn't snigger at Greenphone lack of full openness until Sean confirms that the GPS port is open and the serial stream documented. Becuase if it isn't, then we will have to use the closed agpsd and that makes Neo/OM no more open than Greenphone. So, we'll have to wait and see. |
| 13:49.26 | CM | Looks like a phone from 1997 |
| 13:49.27 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-151-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 13:50.00 | koen | Morgreet: agpsd closed vs SXE + DRM + kernel modules |
| 13:50.26 | SpeedEvil | I don't especially care about open access to all parts of the hardware, as long as we have access to the output of all the hardware can do. Which the neo does. |
| 13:50.36 | koen | Morgreet: and don't get me started about the dual licensing |
| 13:50.39 | SpeedEvil | Even in its current form. |
| 13:51.14 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 13:51.46 | Morgreet | koen: it's more a matter of principle. Except for the fanboys which I'm sure we'll have, let's not point fingers at the Greenphone just yet. I agree it's more closed than we, but we're not saintly. |
| 13:52.08 | ecraven | are there self-powered wifi cards? |
| 13:52.17 | koen | Morgreet: right |
| 13:53.49 | Morgreet | koen: How would you rate Nokia 770/800+Maemo on openness btw, compared to Greenphone? |
| 13:54.09 | koen | compared to the greenphone? |
| 13:54.14 | koen | slightly better |
| 13:54.19 | mjr | yeah, that's my impression too |
| 13:54.32 | Morgreet | Their wifi is closed, presumably, yes? |
| 13:54.45 | koen | open driver + binary blob |
| 13:54.48 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 13:54.49 | Morgreet | k |
| 13:55.04 | Morgreet | But is the binary blod just firmware, or runs in host? |
| 13:55.08 | Morgreet | blob* |
| 13:55.12 | SpeedEvil | host |
| 13:55.15 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 13:55.18 | SpeedEvil | ignore that |
| 13:55.42 | koen | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=cx3110x |
| 13:55.47 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 13:57.00 | koen | Morgreet: http://walfield.org/blog/2007/01/29/maemo.html |
| 13:57.41 | Morgreet | Well I'll give Sun one more chance when the quote arrives ... just fax it to a reseller. If it takes me more than one phone call after that, I'll buy from Dell instead. /sigh |
| 13:58.38 | Morgreet | One gets the impression that they just don't want customers' money. |
| 13:58.47 | aloril | Morgreet: I dislike idea of DRM, I would prefer platform without it becoming common instead of DRM becoming standard |
| 14:00.01 | Morgreet | aloril: my take on DRM is simple: it's to make *MY* equipment do what someone else wants. I have no place for that, unless they want to pay me for use of *MY* equipment as theirs. |
| 14:00.19 | *** join/#openmoko so_solid_moo (n=moo@barney.alcoholicsunanimous.com) |
| 14:00.41 | aloril | Morgreet: yeah, IMHO binary agpsd is minor compared default install of binary DRM support |
| 14:01.21 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p54AA7209.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:01.29 | mjr | in-deed |
| 14:02.07 | koen | It does worry me a bit FIC needs to ask GL to compile the agpsd binary |
| 14:02.09 | aloril | nothing should break once closed binary agpsd is replaced with open binary agpsd |
| 14:02.13 | Morgreet | aloril: a little bad vs a big bad? It's still bad. But I don't really care that agpsd is closed; what I *would* care about immensely is if the h/w GPS port is closed. |
| 14:02.24 | mjr | (also, from the practical point of view, the binary agpsd will probably not prevent one from upgrades as a kernel driver might; not that I'm not going to swap it in with an open replacement the second someone comes up it one ;) |
| 14:02.33 | koen | Morgreet: the gps is on a uart |
| 14:02.47 | mjr | with |
| 14:03.06 | aloril | Morgreet: umm.. yes, but what I mean is that you can replace binary agpsd and nothing should break, but getting rid of DRM is by design nono ;-) |
| 14:03.33 | Morgreet | koen: that's why I said "documented" earlier. The whole idea of an open platform is one where you don't have to reverse engineer things that you have access to. |
| 14:03.54 | Morgreet | aloril: yep, agree totally on DRM |
| 14:04.57 | koen | http://www.broadcom.com/press/release.php?id=957622 |
| 14:05.20 | aloril | koen: I had the impression that you had already some early version of hardware (under NDA)? |
| 14:05.29 | *** join/#openmoko stefan_schmidt (n=stefan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 14:05.30 | koen | aloril: nope |
| 14:05.35 | *** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 14:05.38 | koen | aloril: just common sense :) |
| 14:05.43 | *** join/#openmoko alphaone (n=daniel@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 14:05.51 | koen | hey stefan_schmidt |
| 14:05.57 | TRIsoft | koen: Your common sense is under NDA ? |
| 14:06.04 | koen | TRIsoft: yes |
| 14:06.21 | TRIsoft | koen: Makes sense :D |
| 14:07.07 | wm_eddie | What's the input method going to be like on the Neo? |
| 14:07.41 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r` (n=Rac0r@p54AA7209.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:08.20 | aloril | wm_eddie: whatever you want ;-) (don't know about default one and I guess this will evolve in time during coming months) |
| 14:08.22 | parag0n_ | touhscreen, 2 buttons |
| 14:08.37 | *** join/#openmoko osochebol (n=osochebo@58.186.53.101) |
| 14:09.34 | wm_eddie | I was thinking of making an input method (for Japanese) based on the way Japanese cell phones do it. |
| 14:10.50 | hrw | wm_eddie: contact Laibsch on #oe for it |
| 14:11.05 | wm_eddie | Has there been a text input thread on the development ML I can look up? |
| 14:11.44 | Morgreet | koen: that's a very damning article about Nokia+Maemo. Yes, it does seem to be closed at its heart, with only a FOSS veneer. |
| 14:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@c-24-60-178-47.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 14:12.28 | aloril | wm_eddie: there is also option of bluetooth keyboard (or battery powered USB hub + USB keyboard) |
| 14:12.49 | notsmack | Morgreet: which maemo article? |
| 14:13.05 | wm_eddie | aloril: I'll just keep a USB keyboard in my pocket. That'll work. |
| 14:13.23 | Morgreet | [14:07] <koen> Morgreet: http://walfield.org/blog/2007/01/29/maemo.html |
| 14:13.25 | Morgreet | That one |
| 14:13.32 | wm_eddie | All the girls will be going "Is that a keyboard in your pocket or are you just happy to see me." |
| 14:14.55 | wm_eddie | Well, if you design a good cell phone dial pad style input method it's not too tiny and pretty fast. |
| 14:15.41 | wm_eddie | Although if we want to blow the iPhone out of the water then we'll need speech recognition. |
| 14:16.02 | wm_eddie | hmm the openembedded.org site is very very slow. |
| 14:16.49 | pH5 | http://www.openmoko.com/pixels/main_menu_press.png |
| 14:17.05 | pH5 | I'd like a scrollwheel like this that can be pulled more into the middle of the lower half of the screen |
| 14:17.34 | pH5 | so one could scroll continuously without having to lift a finger |
| 14:17.53 | pH5 | the phone is rather big, actually. |
| 14:18.06 | pH5 | not huge though :) |
| 14:18.31 | mjr | yeah I know it's not the smallest one there is, but not _that_ big :] |
| 14:18.39 | wm_eddie | Hopefully a little better sized than my Treo 600. |
| 14:19.04 | aloril | mjr: move away from your PC until its size is 7.1cm (2.8") |
| 14:20.01 | mjr | and currently I use an n-gage which is not very small either and way less useful |
| 14:20.09 | Morgreet | I wish it were bigger. I want a useful device, not a fashion statement. |
| 14:20.10 | wm_eddie | That's bigger than the treo I think. |
| 14:20.11 | Elrond | counter |
| 14:20.11 | aloril | 6 days 15:39:48 (6.653 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.653 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.653 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 14:20.24 | *** part/#openmoko notsmack (n=notsmack@70-101-76-11.dsl1-field.roc.ny.frontiernet.net) |
| 14:23.05 | aloril | mjr: might help if you make paper with 7.1cm whole in middle and keep it at distance from your eyes you would keep Neo1973 |
| 14:23.37 | aloril | and then move until you see screenshot (make me drool to see actual scree, quite impressive dpi) |
| 14:23.40 | Morgreet | The odd thing about the Neo's design is all the wasted real estate on the front. With so much unused plastic area, why not a lot more buttons for example? |
| 14:23.42 | aloril | s/scree/screen/ |
| 14:24.48 | wm_eddie | More buttons isn't exactly better. |
| 14:25.24 | Morgreet | Yes it's *exactly* better. |
| 14:34.09 | Morgreet | Yet another phone item on Slashdot, this one about Nokia and Symbian. Looks like there's trouble there. |
| 14:36.09 | mjr | (no, I really honestly don't know which, but don't you just love to put two and two together and start up completely baseless rumors) |
| 14:38.03 | mjr | anyway, we're trying to set up Sean also with some local interested community devels, hope that works out... |
| 14:38.18 | Morgreet | That article about Symbian is worth reading. Things are a right mess there, it seems. |
| 14:38.19 | mjr | (we = me and COSS, the center for open source software in Finland) |
| 14:39.20 | Morgreet | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:39.27 | Morgreet | Arggghh!!! Sorry about URL :-( |
| 14:40.00 | SpeedEvil | Buttons that don't involve covering the screen are a definite plus. |
| 14:41.16 | Morgreet | Needless to say, that was a double paste ... URL ends at .html, half way along |
| 14:42.03 | *** join/#openmoko MiniMoose (i=dave@c-24-16-216-41.hsd1.wa.comcast.net) |
| 14:42.24 | Morgreet | mjr: funny comment about the Finnish in that article ;-) |
| 14:43.19 | mjr | yea, those motherfuckers |
| 14:46.12 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p54AA7209.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:46.45 | Morgreet | Hehe |
| 14:48.17 | CM | It's slashdotted already.. |
| 14:48.25 | Morgreet | Actually a pretty good article, if the bit about Cocoa is true. I've never worked with Macs. Partly because I hate the hype and fanboyism. |
| 14:49.29 | Morgreet | Fanboys are the 3rd to go against the wall, after politicians and lawyers. :P |
| 14:50.42 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: once you've got rid of lawyer's i don;t think it'd be an issue ;) |
| 14:51.09 | SpeedEvil | Monopolies and monopolistic behaviour would if anything be worse without lawyers. |
| 14:51.57 | robtaylor | though i'd put the rockefeller's 1st |
| 14:52.16 | robtaylor | then the morgans, and so on.. |
| 14:52.47 | Morgreet | Oh, I think they're a symbiotic pair. Lawyers require politicians to turn opinion into coercion (ie. courts and enforcement), and politicians require lawyers to run the clockwork. |
| 14:53.08 | SpeedEvil | You can't really scrap the system without some means of enforcement. |
| 14:53.36 | SpeedEvil | Where existing governments have been overthrown, without a power structure to take over, it's not gone well historically. |
| 14:54.00 | paulproteus | Heya wm_eddie! |
| 14:54.02 | Morgreet | Can't actually do anything, as it's a closed system. There won't be change until we can get off this planet, on an individual basis. That won't happen for a while. |
| 14:54.21 | robtaylor | meh,individual governments are preety irrelevant in the grand scheme of things |
| 14:54.50 | SpeedEvil | Indeed, it's the global consensus on ways to control citezens. |
| 14:54.56 | Morgreet | robtaylor: yep. It's the fact that they all march in concert that's the problem. |
| 14:55.22 | robtaylor | Morgreet: well,most governments just dont have an option |
| 14:55.26 | SpeedEvil | Apart from shining lights which have no effective government. (just lots of people running around shooting at each other) |
| 14:55.39 | robtaylor | Morgreet: look at any 3rd world contry thats tried to do any thing different |
| 14:55.54 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 14:56.20 | wm_eddie | hi paulproteus, long time no see. |
| 14:57.23 | Morgreet | No point talking about it. It won't change by democratic process because that's been subverted almost everywhere by all electable parties actually supporting the same thing. |
| 14:57.37 | paulproteus | Glad to see this channel is so on-topic. (-: |
| 14:58.02 | paulproteus | wm_eddie, Yeah, I forgot to reattach to my OFTC IRC proxy for, like, three months.... |
| 14:58.11 | Morgreet | paulproteus: we exhausted the topic a week or two ago. No new info untill 11th Feb :P |
| 14:58.30 | koen | counter |
| 14:58.30 | aloril | 6 days 15:01:36 (6.626 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.626 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.626 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 14:58.30 | paulproteus | Morgreet, I'm only poking fun, I realize that. (-: |
| 14:58.34 | Morgreet | Hehe |
| 14:58.39 | paulproteus | I assume we've also talked the new QPE phone environment to death? |
| 14:59.13 | koen | paulproteus: qpe of gpe? |
| 14:59.17 | robtaylor | Morgreet: yeah, oh, agreed on 'democratic process' ;) in the end of the day, the only solution would be appling by force the theory of power being a mandata from the people |
| 14:59.19 | Morgreet | Nope. Feel free to open the topic :P |
| 14:59.35 | paulproteus | koen, http://gpephone.linuxtogo.org/ |
| 14:59.36 | robtaylor | Morgreet: ad that has a whole load of downsides |
| 14:59.48 | wm_eddie | paulproteus: piman and JZig spend most of their time talking about games now anyway (because they both now work for the CoH company) |
| 14:59.55 | paulproteus | wm_eddie, CoH? |
| 15:00.01 | paulproteus | (Does that mean piman runs non-free software!?) |
| 15:00.03 | koen | paulproteus: I hope openmoko becomes LiPS compliant as well |
| 15:00.09 | wm_eddie | City of Heroes. |
| 15:00.12 | paulproteus | BTW, the link I pasted is Slashdotted. |
| 15:00.22 | robtaylor | koen: ugh, LiPS is foul |
| 15:00.29 | SpeedEvil | LiPS? |
| 15:00.35 | Morgreet | robtaylor: aye, which is why it won't happen. So really, it's now a matter of waiting it out ... until we can leave the crap behind like the US's funding fathers did. Hopefully it won't descend into global civil war before then, but it might. |
| 15:00.35 | koen | paulproteus: I've known of gpephone for some time now :) |
| 15:00.43 | wm_eddie | paulproteus: piman has always said that if he's being paid he's ok making non-free software. |
| 15:00.50 | robtaylor | SpeedEvil: a mobile linus standardisation body |
| 15:00.55 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 15:01.04 | SpeedEvil | Because he really needs standardised. |
| 15:01.05 | koen | robtaylor: foul, but buzzword compliant |
| 15:01.05 | robtaylor | heh, linux |
| 15:01.30 | wm_eddie | piman is getting a bit annoying about talking about how much better the XBox 360 is than the PS3 though. |
| 15:01.33 | robtaylor | koen: yeah, having a policy of standards not code its just obviously the right way to go |
| 15:01.40 | robtaylor | </sarcasm> |
| 15:01.50 | robtaylor | koen: ooh :) |
| 15:02.03 | Morgreet | Oh boy, let's have an Xbox vs PS3 vs Neo now ..... ;-)))) |
| 15:02.10 | paulproteus | Morgreet++ |
| 15:02.12 | paulproteus | wm_eddie, What are you up to? |
| 15:02.24 | paulproteus | Did you finish college? I don't remember what your timeline for that was. |
| 15:02.31 | robtaylor | Morgreet: ah, but teh founding farthers didn't leave teh crap behind at all |
| 15:02.33 | wm_eddie | I'm looking to replace my Treo 600. |
| 15:02.40 | koen | robtaylor: pulseaudio is in a better shape now, so I guess I should fix up farsight now :) |
| 15:02.50 | robtaylor | Morgreet: the revolution was driven by commercial needs |
| 15:03.01 | SpeedEvil | Has there been any clarification as to where the USB socket is? |
| 15:03.02 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 15:03.02 | robtaylor | koen: that really rock :) |
| 15:03.05 | wm_eddie | paulproteus: Not yet, but I'm going to Japan for 6 months in May so I'll have some free time to work on what I need for the Neo. |
| 15:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@65.71.224.163) |
| 15:03.30 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 15:03.39 | paulproteus | wm_eddie, For a vacation? |
| 15:03.50 | wm_eddie | paulproteus: I'm going to be working for Panasonic. |
| 15:03.53 | Morgreet | robtaylor: indeed. But it worked for a while. It'll always be so. The diaspora has to be continuous, otherwise your own community turns into something just as bad as what you left behind. |
| 15:03.56 | paulproteus | wm_eddie, Oh, cool! |
| 15:04.00 | wm_eddie | Yeah :) |
| 15:04.13 | prpplague | koen: greetings earthling |
| 15:04.20 | prpplague | koen: whats cookin? |
| 15:04.21 | robtaylor | koen: i'm going to have to get a build box going so ican actaully build OE regualary |
| 15:04.22 | paulproteus | wm_eddie, In May I'll graduate from jhu.edu and work for a small San Francisco-based nonprofit, Creative Commons. |
| 15:04.34 | paulproteus | Sounds very nice to be able to have time to work on what you need for OpenMoko. |
| 15:04.48 | wm_eddie | Basicly I need the Neo to be able to read-write Japanese e-mail. |
| 15:04.52 | koen | prpplague: made some apples in puff pastry with some sugar/cinnamon/rum filling :) |
| 15:04.53 | paulproteus | Hah! (-: |
| 15:04.54 | wm_eddie | and a Dictionary would be nice too. |
| 15:05.08 | wm_eddie | Creative Commons? awesome. |
| 15:05.18 | paulproteus | Yeah, I'm really happy about that. (-: |
| 15:05.20 | koen | prpplague: how's the move coming along? |
| 15:05.44 | prpplague | koen: pastry sounds lovely |
| 15:06.01 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@mail.backchannelmedia.com) |
| 15:06.01 | wm_eddie | Time to get ready for calc. |
| 15:06.08 | prpplague | koen: well the actual move is going well, hit a snag on the actual immigration visa part for my wife |
| 15:06.11 | paulproteus | I had better get ready, too. |
| 15:06.24 | paulproteus | See you around, wm_eddie! |
| 15:06.42 | wm_eddie | see ya |
| 15:07.08 | robtaylor | Morgreet: did you really mean 'diaspora' there? |
| 15:07.42 | robtaylor | i'd have expected diaspora to always be continuous ;) |
| 15:08.38 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague^2 (n=dave@65.71.224.163) |
| 15:09.12 | Morgreet | robtaylor: yep. Community dispersal into unpopulated space. |
| 15:09.23 | prpplague^2 | koen: connection problems |
| 15:09.25 | prpplague^2 | <prpplague> koen: new US law, Adam Walsh Act, requires any US Citizen who is bringing a foreign citizen to the US to have a background check specifically to check for any convictions involving the abuse of a minor |
| 15:09.59 | prpplague^2 | koen: problem is that the US Customs and Immigration Service wasn't prepared to implement the new law when it took effect, so all there are no procedures for getting it done |
| 15:10.08 | koen | djeez |
| 15:10.23 | SpeedEvil | And some countries don't keep those sorts of records centrally. |
| 15:10.45 | prpplague^2 | SpeedEvil: hehe, its not for the foreign citizen, its for the US citizen |
| 15:10.50 | koen | robtaylor: what's the preferred place to get libjingle nowadays? |
| 15:11.17 | robtaylor | koen: tapoioca-voip on sf |
| 15:11.25 | robtaylor | i think |
| 15:11.26 | SpeedEvil | For when they are bringing in non-minors? |
| 15:11.49 | Morgreet | Libjingle is in Gentoo portage |
| 15:11.52 | prpplague^2 | SpeedEvil: the rationale is to prevent child molestors from going to the philipins(or tons of other places) and getting 14 year old brides |
| 15:11.59 | SpeedEvil | Ah. |
| 15:12.19 | koen | Morgreet: it is available from multiple places, but I want to know which one is blessed by the Rob gods :) |
| 15:12.23 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: problem is that it add just one more layer of insanity to the process |
| 15:12.34 | SpeedEvil | Personally, if they are of legal age when married, where they are. but... |
| 15:13.16 | prpplague | SpeedEvil: yea, well, these days it ain't like the movies where you get married and then you get a greencard |
| 15:13.39 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 15:13.44 | aloril | search for "mickeyl, whts the main difference between GPE and openmoko?" http://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/openmoko/openmoko.20070202.txt |
| 15:14.27 | SpeedEvil | I'm of the opinion that immigration for pretty young disease free females should be drastically eased. :) |
| 15:14.39 | SpeedEvil | Anyway, back on topic... |
| 15:14.41 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 15:15.53 | SpeedEvil | Was there any answer on the USB connector position? |
| 15:15.59 | SpeedEvil | oops, just asked, mn. |
| 15:16.03 | SpeedEvil | nm |
| 15:16.37 | koen | robtaylor: I got it from http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=146406 |
| 15:16.39 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w|usa (n=bob@64-60-160-98.static-ip.telepacific.net) |
| 15:16.43 | koen | robtaylor: adding it to OE now |
| 15:17.08 | robtaylor | koen: i think that's right. I'm no longer the libjingle maintainer though :( |
| 15:17.21 | Morgreet | aloril: that chat log makes it sound like OM is reinventing wheels for look'n'feel reasons :-( |
| 15:18.29 | aloril | Morgreet: more integrated also |
| 15:18.45 | Morgreet | aloril: which means what, outside of marketting? |
| 15:19.10 | koen | that you don't have to enter the same info in 6 places |
| 15:19.18 | koen | and can access stuff from different apps |
| 15:19.29 | aloril | Morgreet: well.. it does sound a bit like there are (will be) now 3 alternatives: OpenMoko, GPE, QTopia |
| 15:19.35 | Morgreet | koen: all you need is a single database for that kind of integration. |
| 15:19.37 | koen | e.g. both the dialer and email app use the contacts app |
| 15:19.59 | aloril | Morgreet: sure, but does GPE do that? (I don't know it ..) |
| 15:20.14 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 15:20.23 | robtaylor | koen: btw, check out http://live.gnome.org/High5/PeopleBrowser |
| 15:20.39 | Morgreet | Well Linux/Unix as a whole doesn't do that, because the whole idea is that what the user wants is more important than any marketting design. |
| 15:20.49 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 15:20.57 | koen | robtaylor: sort of what maemo does |
| 15:21.20 | robtaylor | koen: yeah, pretty much |
| 15:22.04 | robtaylor | koen:should be a better ui though. the maemo one still sucks ;) |
| 15:23.19 | koen | robtaylor: NOTE: package farsight-0.1.5-r0: task do_build: completed |
| 15:23.48 | robtaylor | koen: rocking :) |
| 15:24.06 | Morgreet | In any event, focussing on look'n'feel now (rather than for Sept) is like worrying about the colour of your square wheel. Style won't matter until the mass market of Phase 2. |
| 15:24.08 | robtaylor | koen: are you gonna build gossip as well? |
| 15:24.37 | koen | robtaylor: I can try |
| 15:25.06 | robtaylor | aloril: i'm really not impressed that G(PE)^2 seems oto have ignored eds, where everyone else is using it |
| 15:25.33 | *** join/#openmoko jebba (n=jebba@OL80-42.fibertel.com.ar) |
| 15:25.36 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.115.27.72) |
| 15:25.40 | koen | robtaylor: it's using tinymail which uses eds |
| 15:25.55 | koen | robtaylor: but yeah, I have been pushing for gpe to move to eds-dbus for some time now |
| 15:26.00 | robtaylor | koen: i thought tinymail just sued camel |
| 15:26.44 | robtaylor | *used. sueing camels isn't going to help anyone... |
| 15:26.51 | Morgreet | No EDS in portage. Does it have another name? |
| 15:27.02 | robtaylor | Morgreet: evolution-data-server |
| 15:27.07 | Morgreet | tnx |
| 15:27.15 | koen | NOTE: package gossip-0.22-r0: task do_configure: started |
| 15:27.28 | aloril | btw.. does Neo1973 have enough CPU to use encryption? (to guard against stolen phones for cases where thief has too much clue and takes battery out until reflashes it) |
| 15:27.36 | robtaylor | koen: though i have to admit that EDS-dbus still needs a lot of cleaning up. and there are some difficult problems |
| 15:27.45 | Robot101 | koen: the libjingle in tapioca svn leaks threads like a biatch, if you're just using farsight there's a cut-down and less buggy libjingle in http://projects.collabora.co.uk/darcs/farsight/libjingle/ |
| 15:27.53 | robtaylor | koen: like it breaks libebook's abi |
| 15:28.17 | koen | robtaylor: not to mention dbus 1.x being broken on arm when launched from inside a session |
| 15:28.42 | robtaylor | Robot101: ah, cool. |
| 15:28.57 | robtaylor | Robot101: are the taopioca guys gonna drop theirs now? |
| 15:29.02 | robtaylor | Robot101: oh, right |
| 15:29.36 | robtaylor | koen: it is? what way, is there a bug for that? |
| 15:29.44 | Robot101 | the farsight patches are mergable up into tapioca, but we're doomed ultimately |
| 15:29.53 | Robot101 | google sneaked a libjingle 0.4 tarball onto sf.net |
| 15:29.59 | robtaylor | oh, joyful |
| 15:30.11 | Robot101 | it doesn't compile though, and it's basically unmergable with the 0.3 that everyone's using now |
| 15:30.12 | robtaylor | completely different? |
| 15:30.18 | koen | robtaylor: http://bugs.openembedded.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1567 |
| 15:30.22 | Robot101 | not completely, but vigorously fucked |
| 15:30.33 | robtaylor | woo.gogo google |
| 15:30.33 | Robot101 | like broken API, ABI, namespaces and violated encapsulation |
| 15:30.52 | Robot101 | I'm transplanting the useful bit into 0.3 :D |
| 15:31.02 | Robot101 | the super top-secret relay support |
| 15:31.26 | robtaylor | koen: oh, yeah i vagely remember that |
| 15:31.36 | robtaylor | koen: how come it works on maemo? |
| 15:31.46 | koen | robtaylor: I added more backtraces and verbose spew |
| 15:31.58 | Robot101 | robtaylor: they start the session bus in init, near enough :P |
| 15:31.58 | koen | robtaylor: maemo probably launches it differently |
| 15:32.02 | robtaylor | Robot101: ah, yeah, soooo secret and secure ;) |
| 15:32.16 | koen | robtaylor: and/or patch it to osso hell |
| 15:32.20 | robtaylor | Robot101: ah, right, what could possibly go wrong |
| 15:32.43 | robtaylor | koen: Kimmo's actually not terrible at submitting patches back upstream |
| 15:33.05 | robtaylor | he raped the debian packaging though |
| 15:33.14 | Robot101 | yeah, most of the osso dbus patches are upstream backports |
| 15:33.15 | *** join/#openmoko JustPandan (i=joelc@lenin.acc.umu.se) |
| 15:33.33 | koen | robtaylor: I suspect dbus doesn't like that we exec gpe-dm, which spawns the xsession |
| 15:33.42 | SpeedEvil | aloris: yes, it has enough CPU to use encryption - AES or something. It will basically slow it down depending on data access rate. The CPU should manage 1 megabyte/second. |
| 15:34.05 | SpeedEvil | So, it will probably not work for encrypted video. |
| 15:34.16 | SpeedEvil | Or if it does, it's a severe constraint. |
| 15:34.22 | *** join/#openmoko xorAxAx (n=xorAxax@ampleforth.srv.alexanderweb.de) |
| 15:34.39 | robtaylor | koen: added some more tracing in the child? i guess its dieing straight away |
| 15:34.59 | robtaylor | oh, oh, or never getting launched. PATH problem? |
| 15:35.22 | koen | I showed you my patch that fixes segfaults, right? |
| 15:35.33 | robtaylor | koen: is it in dbus bugzilla? |
| 15:35.51 | koen | http://www.openembedded.org/repo/org.openembedded.dev/packages/dbus/dbus/fix-segfault.patch is |
| 15:36.13 | robtaylor | koen: upstream is actually active, plzusebugzillakthxbye |
| 15:36.19 | koen | but giving my experiences with fdo bugzilla my time is better spent carrying water to the see |
| 15:36.25 | koen | sea* |
| 15:36.33 | robtaylor | koen: what's the problem? |
| 15:36.39 | koen | it's /dev/null |
| 15:36.46 | robtaylor | not for dbus or dbus-glib |
| 15:36.52 | koen | ah |
| 15:37.01 | robtaylor | i know havoc reads over the dbus busgs |
| 15:37.08 | robtaylor | and i read over the dbus-glib bugs |
| 15:37.22 | robtaylor | koen: oh, i remember that bug |
| 15:37.32 | robtaylor | koen: i still think you need to fix it properly ;) |
| 15:37.42 | koen | *I* need to fix it? |
| 15:38.01 | koen | I couldn't code my way out of a wet paper bag |
| 15:38.13 | robtaylor | koen: well neither havoc, j5 nor i have access to the hardware it occurs on |
| 15:39.20 | robtaylor | koen: well, its worth sicking it in bugzilla with a description of the problem, havoc might have an inspired guess |
| 15:39.20 | koen | ? |
| 15:39.44 | koen | robtaylor: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/show_bug.cgi?id=9882 |
| 15:39.48 | koen | is it fixed yet? |
| 15:39.50 | koen | and now? |
| 15:40.22 | robtaylor | koen: :P |
| 15:40.34 | koen | :p |
| 15:40.46 | koen | hmmm |
| 15:40.51 | koen | gossip needs half of gnome |
| 15:44.57 | robtaylor | koen: ooh, look, someone responded to the bug. aren't those dbus maints fast? :) |
| 15:46.45 | *** join/#openmoko MiniMoose (i=dave@c-24-16-216-41.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 15:49.56 | koen | robtaylor: eval `DBUS_DEBUG_OUTPUT=1 /usr/bin/dbus-launch --auto-syntax --exit-with-session` ? |
| 15:50.11 | robtaylor | koen: and DBUS_VERBOSE |
| 15:51.29 | robtaylor | koen: (the babysitter process redirects stdout and stderr to /dev/null normally. with DBUS_DEBUG_OUTPUT=1, it doesnt redirect stderr) |
| 15:54.31 | koen | robtaylor: do you want it pasted inline or attached? |
| 15:56.17 | koen | robtaylor: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=8597&action=edit |
| 15:57.16 | robtaylor | koen: 3143: Failed to open directory /usr/local/share/dbus-1/services: Failed to read directory "/usr/local/share/dbus-1/services": No such file or directory |
| 15:57.19 | robtaylor | slightly suspect |
| 15:57.34 | koen | duh, I have no /usr/local |
| 15:59.03 | koen | root@hx4700:/# ls /usr/share/dbus-1/services/ |
| 15:59.03 | koen | gconf.service |
| 15:59.40 | robtaylor | koen: yeah, looks like you're not passingthe right stuff to configure.... |
| 15:59.56 | koen | it find the gconf one |
| 16:00.15 | koen | if dbus crashed on not finding /usr/local I'm going to swear |
| 16:00.33 | robtaylor | i don't actually think its that |
| 16:00.59 | koen | data point, it works if I run it from a terminal |
| 16:01.13 | koen | if only fails when run from inside that Xsession |
| 16:02.42 | gw280 | robtaylor: heylo |
| 16:02.53 | robtaylor | hey gw280 |
| 16:03.08 | gw280 | robtaylor: how's life? |
| 16:04.14 | koen | robtaylor: same machine, from a terminal: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=8598&action=edit |
| 16:04.15 | robtaylor | gw280: not too bad, no work on at the moment, so hacking on a people browser for gnome |
| 16:04.40 | alp | people browser? |
| 16:05.09 | gw280 | robtaylor: my project to create a telepathy backend for my phone is still pending :) |
| 16:05.14 | robtaylor | koen: that seems to have been run as root |
| 16:05.15 | koen | | peekaboo-applet.c:(.text+0x340): undefined reference to `panel_applet_set_background_widget' |
| 16:05.27 | robtaylor | koen: 3258: No cache for UID 0 |
| 16:06.07 | robtaylor | gw280: heh, well i'd guess when ksen finished building the stack in OE, there'd be q bit more interest in it ;) |
| 16:06.49 | gw280 | :P |
| 16:07.33 | robtaylor | koen: very strange, all that seems different is that the waitpid fails |
| 16:09.04 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 16:09.07 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 16:09.41 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=lofoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 16:10.35 | *** part/#openmoko osochebol (n=osochebo@58.186.53.101) |
| 16:11.52 | gw280 | robtaylor: going to fosdem? |
| 16:12.24 | robtaylor | gw280: aye :) |
| 16:12.39 | gw280 | robtaylor: woot |
| 16:12.41 | koen | robtaylor: doing it as a regular user also works |
| 16:12.48 | gw280 | robtaylor: I'm still on hold for that... bloody university :P |
| 16:13.21 | *** join/#openmoko lightyear (n=lightyea@p54876489.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 16:15.15 | koen | robtaylor: weird bug, eh? |
| 16:16.06 | robtaylor | koen: its all very odd |
| 16:16.44 | robtaylor | i mean, "EOF in dbus-launch reading PID from bus daemon" must be the cause |
| 16:17.19 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 16:17.42 | robtaylor | but the daemon is obviously running |
| 16:18.01 | koen | yep |
| 16:18.04 | robtaylor | its noticable that the fd's used are different, which is slightly suspect |
| 16:18.15 | koen | maybe it needs another magic printf :) |
| 16:18.43 | robtaylor | i really hope not |
| 16:21.08 | robtaylor | koen: can you add a "%s\n",strerror (errno) to line 552? |
| 16:21.18 | robtaylor | of tools/dbus-launch.c |
| 16:21.24 | koen | sure |
| 16:21.32 | robtaylor | ( |
| 16:21.32 | robtaylor | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.32 | robtaylor | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:21.36 | robtaylor | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:22.45 | *** part/#openmoko dottedmag (n=mag@dottedmag.net) |
| 16:22.52 | koen | fprintf (stderr, "Failed waitpid() waiting for bus daemon's parent %s\n",strerror (errno)); ? |
| 16:24.31 | robtaylor | koen: aye |
| 16:25.32 | *** part/#openmoko Yagami_Light (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 16:27.25 | koen | robtaylor: 3472: parent exiting |
| 16:27.25 | koen | Failed waitpid() waiting for bus daemon's parent No child processes |
| 16:27.26 | koen | Failed to waitpid() for babysitter intermediate process: No child processes |
| 16:28.06 | robtaylor | crap |
| 16:28.16 | *** join/#openmoko Marex_ (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 16:29.45 | robtaylor | koen: is this with glibc, ooi? |
| 16:29.47 | *** join/#openmoko TimRiker (n=timr@216.49.181.128) |
| 16:30.05 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 16:32.44 | robtaylor | koen: its just weeeird |
| 16:34.23 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (i=bur@ccfit.nsu.ru) |
| 16:36.22 | robtaylor | koen: completely off-topic, are you staying at hotel astrid for FOSDEM? |
| 16:36.33 | koen | robtaylor: yes |
| 16:36.48 | koen | most OE people are there |
| 16:36.50 | robtaylor | koen: ok, cool, i'll try get some rooms there then :) |
| 16:38.08 | *** join/#openmoko pleemans (n=peter@d51A5E76A.access.telenet.be) |
| 16:39.11 | koen | robtaylor: need any other printfs? |
| 16:39.36 | koen | gdb isn't being terribly helpfull with fork() stuff |
| 16:39.40 | robtaylor | koen: well, cna you just confirm its glibc? |
| 16:39.48 | koen | glibc 2.5 |
| 16:40.06 | koen | gcc 4.1.1 |
| 16:40.11 | koen | binutils 2.17.something |
| 16:40.38 | robtaylor | its just so odd, as waitpid is obviouslytwaiting, but then returning ECHILD |
| 16:40.54 | robtaylor | i have no idea why it'd do that |
| 16:41.58 | robtaylor | maybe just print out child_pid in bothj waidpids, just to sanity check |
| 16:42.36 | koen | do the whatwhat where? |
| 16:44.23 | *** join/#openmoko rboehme (n=rboehme@dsl001-156-033.blt1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 16:44.48 | *** join/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.211) |
| 16:44.57 | robtaylor | koen: line 552, print out child_pid as well |
| 16:45.20 | robtaylor | and same line 967 |
| 16:46.04 | robtaylor | (though i can't see have line 967 could possibly go wrong ;)) |
| 16:47.14 | koen | Failed waitpid() waiting for bus daemon's parent. child_pid: 3583 errno:No child processes |
| 16:47.37 | robtaylor | koen: need the whole log to see what pids are what |
| 16:47.57 | robtaylor | (attach to bug) |
| 16:47.59 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
| 16:50.31 | koen | robtaylor: https://bugs.freedesktop.org/attachment.cgi?id=8599&action=edit |
| 16:52.12 | koen | robtaylor: are there any unsigned chars in that code? |
| 16:54.39 | dottedmag | counter |
| 16:54.39 | aloril | 6 days 13:05:20 (6.545 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.545 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.545 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 16:54.58 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@193.170.68.74) |
| 16:55.00 | koen | robtaylor: rebooting the router, brb |
| 16:55.37 | *** join/#openmoko ArtificialSynaps (n=Navi00@165.139.116.252) |
| 16:59.58 | *** join/#openmoko koen (n=koen@dominion.kabel.utwente.nl) |
| 17:05.03 | *** join/#openmoko christoph_ (n=christop@p57B03FC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 17:05.43 | koen | re |
| 17:07.21 | koen | ~lart debian |
| 17:07.32 | koen | it seems testing doesn't like nfsroot anymore |
| 17:07.49 | Clint | file a bug |
| 17:08.10 | koen | dhclient stomps down eth0, which is not funny when that is being used for nfsroot |
| 17:08.14 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl51B66428.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:13.05 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:14.04 | *** join/#openmoko behdad (n=behdad@63.115.27.72) |
| 17:14.33 | Clint | it.. stomps? |
| 17:15.45 | robtaylor | koen: POSIX.1-2001 specifies that if the disposition of SIGCHLD is set to SIG_IGN or the SA_NOCLDWAIT flag is set for SIGCHLD (see sigaction(2)), then children that terminate do not become zombies and a call to wait() or waitpid() will block until all children have terminated, and then fail with errno set to ECHILD. (The original POSIX standard left the behaviour of setting SIGCHLD to SIG_IGN unspecified.) Linux 2.6 conforms to this specification. |
| 17:16.34 | robtaylor | koen: sounds like a possibility. what is execing dbus_launch? |
| 17:17.00 | Robot101 | robtaylor: oh! |
| 17:17.19 | Robot101 | robtaylor: I fixed a bizzare bug in Gaim which was caused by gdm fucking up the signal tables |
| 17:17.20 | koen | robtaylor: gpe-dm start Xsession which does eval `dbus-launch --foo --bar --baz` |
| 17:17.54 | robtaylor | Robot101: interesting, what was the fix? |
| 17:18.18 | robtaylor | koen: does gpe-dm touch SIGCHILD or sigaction? |
| 17:19.13 | Robot101 | robtaylor: 1 sec, looking through the repositories |
| 17:19.22 | robtaylor | Robot101: cool, thanks :) |
| 17:19.49 | Robot101 | robtaylor: it's because it was forking for DNS lookups or sound playing or something, and was leaking children like nobodies business under GNOME only |
| 17:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko koljoman (n=nenni@rb4d109.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:20.50 | robtaylor | oh! so gdm sets SA_NOCLDSTOP on linux |
| 17:20.56 | robtaylor | and gpe-dm isn't |
| 17:20.59 | robtaylor | perhaps |
| 17:21.24 | robtaylor | oh, i mean gdm wasn't or isn't setting SA_NOCLDSTOP |
| 17:24.59 | Robot101 | http://gaim.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/gaim/trunk/gaim/src/aim.c?r1=3119&r2=3153&pathrev=4763 |
| 17:25.25 | Robot101 | almost 5 years ago. |
| 17:26.59 | Robot101 | robtaylor: ^^ could be a red herring, but just came to mind when you were talking about SIGCHLD |
| 17:27.24 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl51B66428.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:27.43 | robtaylor | Robot101: hmm, it could be related.I'll go have a look at gpe-dm |
| 17:28.53 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 17:29.03 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 17:29.25 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 17:29.28 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R1464.r.pppool.de) |
| 17:29.52 | koen | robtaylor: http://projects.linuxtogo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/base/gpe-dm/?root=gpe |
| 17:30.40 | koen | or http://projects.linuxtogo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/base/gpe-dm/gpe-dm.c?rev=8312&root=gpe&view=auto |
| 17:31.09 | robtaylor | koen: yeah,just looked though,no obvious suspects |
| 17:33.25 | koen | volunteers for a neo version: http://ramnet.se/~nisse/blog/?p=39 |
| 17:33.42 | robtaylor | koen: ooi, does it work without --exit-with-session? |
| 17:34.39 | robtaylor | oh, no that won't make a difference |
| 17:35.40 | Robot101 | robtaylor: you can still test if setting sigchld to sig_dfl helps, even if you don't know why it's like that :D |
| 17:35.53 | robtaylor | Robot101: yeah, i was just thinking that |
| 17:37.14 | robtaylor | koen: can you try adding signal(SIGCHILD, SIG_DFL) at line 625? |
| 17:37.31 | koen | of dbus-launch or gpe-dm? |
| 17:37.36 | robtaylor | koen: dbus-launch |
| 17:38.30 | robtaylor | umm, SIGCHLD, sorry |
| 17:39.07 | robtaylor | lol |
| 17:40.06 | koen | robtaylor: you're my hero |
| 17:40.24 | koen | ~hail robtaylor |
| 17:40.26 | apt | ACTION bows down to robtaylor and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 17:40.30 | robtaylor | ~hail Robot101 |
| 17:40.31 | apt | ACTION bows down to Robot101 and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 17:40.36 | robtaylor | heh |
| 17:40.55 | robtaylor | koen: i'm not sure what the right fix is though |
| 17:41.07 | robtaylor | maybe adding that to gpe-dm is the right thing |
| 17:41.11 | Robot101 | hmm |
| 17:41.14 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@frrrc01.vic.sfl.net) |
| 17:41.14 | Robot101 | :) |
| 17:41.44 | Robot101 | funny how we're being bitten by the same problem 5 years on |
| 17:42.20 | robtaylor | koen: try reverting that, and instead adding it after signal (SIGTERM, shutdown); in gpe-dm.c |
| 17:42.42 | *** join/#openmoko wimpies (n=u19809@cable-195-162-217-191.upc.chello.be) |
| 17:42.45 | Robot101 | tbh it might be the difference between being run by a shell or not |
| 17:42.54 | Robot101 | shells might clean this kinda stuff up for you |
| 17:43.50 | robtaylor | Robot101: hmm, but surely gpe-launch is being run from a shell |
| 17:43.58 | robtaylor | otherwise it'd be pointless |
| 17:44.23 | wimpies | mickeyl : are you around ? |
| 17:44.24 | robtaylor | it could be dash being minimal though |
| 17:48.46 | koen | robtaylor: the patch to gpe-dm doesn't seem to work |
| 17:49.59 | robtaylor | koen: interesting |
| 17:52.03 | *** part/#openmoko StylusEater_Work (n=StylusEa@148.141.31.211) |
| 17:56.00 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 17:57.26 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:57.34 | *** join/#openmoko whyme (n=yonatan@82-41-10-244.cable.ubr02.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 17:59.04 | whyme | Hi all, Sorry about the millionth time you must have heard this, but does anyone know *when* the fic neo 1973 will be out in the uk... more importantly, when the *second* version of this device (the one with bluetooth and wifi) will be out here in europe? thanks :) |
| 17:59.22 | koen | whyme: see topic |
| 18:00.36 | wimpies | whyme: It should become available anywhere directly. The second version should be around september (that's what one told us) |
| 18:00.57 | wimpies | I 'think' the first version also has bt ? |
| 18:01.06 | koen | wimpies: see topic |
| 18:01.32 | wimpies | koen : sorry . |
| 18:01.43 | wimpies | koen ? Dutch ? |
| 18:02.32 | koen | robtaylor: I patched dbus 1.0.2 in OE |
| 18:02.42 | *** join/#openmoko cpfr (n=fourier@nat01-mccormick-ext.Rutgers.EDU) |
| 18:03.06 | robtaylor | koen: i'm still wondering what's blocking sigchld |
| 18:05.43 | whyme | koen: yea, read that now... it's long, but happy reading... apart for having to wait till sep to get wifi... :P |
| 18:06.07 | koen | whyme: september 2008 |
| 18:08.02 | buz | with any luck you might get a phase1 v2 in march 08 |
| 18:12.23 | buz | mhh so openembedded is sort of a meta distribution and angstrom is an actual distro? |
| 18:12.33 | koen | no |
| 18:12.35 | buz | (trying to make sense of koen's blog post) |
| 18:12.36 | koen | OE is a buildsystem |
| 18:12.55 | *** join/#openmoko Coder7 (n=bhook@164.113.205.197) |
| 18:13.10 | buz | i guess one could consider a meta distro to be that ;) |
| 18:13.15 | koen | "OpenEmbedded is a full-featured development environment allowing users to target a wide variety of devices. Supporting multiple build, release paths and configurations, OpenEmbedded extends the capabilities of your build and release engineers. OpenEmbedded uses compilation and configuration caching at most levels to increase developer productivity. |
| 18:13.15 | koen | OpenEmbedded is a tool which allows developers to create a fully usable Linux base for various embedded systems. It has been designed to be able to handle different hardware architectures, support multiple releases for those architectures, and utilize tools for speeding up the process of recreating the base after changes have been made. Currently it can run on any Linux distribution, and plans are in place to allow it to work under Windows. |
| 18:13.16 | koen | OpenEmbedded uses the Bitbake task executor in combination with the OpenEmbedded metadata to do all of the above, and it's using monotone as its version control system. |
| 18:13.19 | koen | OpenEmbedded is the successor of the great OpenZaurus project. Basically OpenEmbedded is a build system that can generate (cross-compile) Software packages for embedded targets. This may include Bootloader, Linux and Applications. It started as a dream and BrainStorming, on how this could be done, and it's already used in real life. " |
| 18:14.02 | koen | buz: OE is as much a distribution as dpkg-buildpackage or portage is |
| 18:14.36 | buz | mhh i might consider dpkg or portage trees to be meta distros in their own right |
| 18:15.00 | buz | it's what you build distros of |
| 18:15.30 | koen | as does gcc |
| 18:15.32 | koen | and make |
| 18:15.42 | koen | and scons |
| 18:15.44 | koen | and cmake |
| 18:15.45 | koen | and ... |
| 18:16.48 | whyme | :'(... curses! I don't think I'll be able to wait that long.... |
| 18:17.39 | buz | mhh id consider make et al one level deeper still |
| 18:17.40 | buz | but maybe thats just my own hierarchy ;) |
| 18:21.08 | nh_work | anyone looked into the limo foundation much? |
| 18:24.52 | *** join/#openmoko pvanhoof (n=pvanhoof@d54C0EE14.access.telenet.be) |
| 18:29.09 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 18:33.14 | *** join/#openmoko Ebli1 (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
| 18:33.36 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@e179250222.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 18:34.46 | cbpage | http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.asp?Item=N82E16820134409 |
| 18:34.51 | cbpage | dunno if they're as cheap everywhere else ;) |
| 18:37.47 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__147 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-4e611661aa453c01) |
| 18:38.40 | noidd | heh |
| 18:43.42 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 18:45.56 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:48.54 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:56.34 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-151-125.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:56.43 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B03FC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:59.45 | *** join/#openmoko Quobor (n=Quobor@pD9FF9D7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:59.48 | Quobor | Hi there |
| 19:00.21 | Quobor | Would you tell me what openmoko is? |
| 19:00.38 | koen | see topic |
| 19:00.56 | koljoman | challenge |
| 19:01.44 | SpeedEvil | response |
| 19:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 19:02.10 | Quobor | I already read the sites content - but i cant figure out what its all about |
| 19:02.41 | SpeedEvil | It's the software underpinnings of an open-source phone. |
| 19:03.02 | Quobor | Sounds great |
| 19:03.16 | Quobor | Thanks :D |
| 19:03.18 | *** part/#openmoko Quobor (n=Quobor@pD9FF9D7E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:03.33 | buz | http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS9462245331.html |
| 19:03.49 | koen | I guess he didn't click on the 'press' linl |
| 19:03.52 | koen | link* |
| 19:04.25 | buz | The partnership could also produce a Linux-based mobile phone reference design, according to Wind River. |
| 19:04.35 | buz | the more the merrier i guess |
| 19:04.41 | koen | windriver + ti = closed source crap |
| 19:05.26 | koen | (from experience) |
| 19:05.48 | koen | probably using kernel 2.0 or something equally unhackable |
| 19:06.32 | buz | windriver should have stuck with BSDI |
| 19:06.42 | buz | that one they could do closed source properly |
| 19:14.12 | koen | ~hail robtaylor |
| 19:14.14 | apt | ACTION bows down to robtaylor and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 19:21.11 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 19:30.44 | noidd | koen: I seem to be having huge problems building the final image for c7x0 when I try. |
| 19:30.58 | noidd | get CRC errors which just wierded me out |
| 19:31.17 | noidd | so i don't think my OE environment is fully straight yet |
| 19:32.39 | koen | crc errors? |
| 19:32.44 | koen | sounds like you have a bad HD |
| 19:33.56 | noidd | wierd huh? |
| 19:34.01 | noidd | HD is fine |
| 19:34.45 | noidd | when I boot the machine back up again I'll put the OE buildlog up for you to laugh at. |
| 19:37.59 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (n=daijobu@c-75-71-250-33.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 19:44.45 | philippe | would be nice to be able to type stuff, play games. listen to music and check your calendar while on the plane |
| 19:45.39 | prpplague | philippe: i think thats going to be hard to convince the flight crew that the phone portion is turned off |
| 19:46.05 | philippe | well if you use a nice barred through connectivity icon that should be possible |
| 19:46.35 | koen | "Is the plane crashing? No? Then it's off" |
| 19:47.06 | spikebik1 | still can't use em during takeoff and landing |
| 19:47.11 | prpplague | koen: hehe, yea, i doubt that would be suffiencient in the US |
| 19:47.38 | koen | prpplague: it does get you an all expenses paid trip to GITMO |
| 19:47.45 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:47.47 | prpplague | koen: probably |
| 19:48.04 | prpplague | koen: or atleast added to the "no-fly" list |
| 19:48.17 | marcellus | but can you use it on _that_ trip |
| 19:49.37 | prpplague | lovely, 2.6.20 was released over the weekend |
| 19:51.26 | Sketch | of course it was, i just compiled 2.6.19 on friday! |
| 19:51.59 | prpplague | hehe |
| 19:53.01 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr_ (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668517.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 19:53.05 | prpplague | now if i can just get all my patches submited and signed-off by 2.6.22 i'll be as happy as a pig in mud |
| 19:53.28 | *** join/#openmoko bpl (n=blarsen@CPE001217be860c-CM00111ae01934.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:53.37 | *** part/#openmoko bpl (n=blarsen@CPE001217be860c-CM00111ae01934.cpe.net.cable.rogers.com) |
| 19:55.19 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 19:58.08 | *** join/#openmoko ircNuser (n=email@log77-2-82-242-11-232.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 20:00.19 | *** part/#openmoko ircNuser (n=email@log77-2-82-242-11-232.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:00.24 | *** join/#openmoko ircNuser (n=email@log77-2-82-242-11-232.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:00.30 | ircNuser | hello |
| 20:01.59 | *** part/#openmoko ircNuser (n=email@log77-2-82-242-11-232.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:01.59 | *** join/#openmoko blobster (i=enne@amadeus.cc.tut.fi) |
| 20:02.00 | koljoman | guys, what about fingerprint locking |
| 20:02.00 | *** join/#openmoko boulix (n=email@log77-2-82-242-11-232.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:02.00 | koljoman | unlocking |
| 20:02.03 | boulix | Hello everybody. |
| 20:02.08 | *** join/#openmoko bezlemin (n=bezlemin@cpe-72-179-41-19.austin.res.rr.com) |
| 20:03.15 | boulix | does anybody know when the FIC Neo1973 will be available? |
| 20:03.19 | Clint | counter |
| 20:03.20 | aloril | 6 days 09:56:40 (6.414 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.414 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.414 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 20:04.11 | *** part/#openmoko xorAxAx (n=xorAxax@moinmoin/coreteam/alexander) |
| 20:05.06 | hads | Excellent |
| 20:05.31 | boulix | cool! thanks for your answer. |
| 20:05.47 | koen | Clint: actually the topic is a clever turing test |
| 20:06.08 | Clint | irc is a funny thing |
| 20:06.15 | koen | Clint: I suspect that people who aren't wise enough to read the topic can't handle a webstore either |
| 20:06.51 | Clint | i think you'd be surprised |
| 20:07.30 | koen | ignorance never seizes to amaze me |
| 20:07.38 | hads | I'm surprised how many people can't handle using a web store. |
| 20:07.53 | *** join/#openmoko Virtuall (n=virtuall@who.is.virtuall.info) |
| 20:07.57 | Clint | i'm surprised by how many vendors can't handle running one properly |
| 20:09.23 | koen | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS6848613546.html also has a hammerhead |
| 20:09.23 | hads | That's also true. My experiences have been generally positive thus far. |
| 20:11.09 | Morgreet | koen: it's a reverse Turing test. Computers actually read things, whereas humans (new gen at least) have an attention span limiter that chops off after the 5th word ... |
| 20:11.16 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@wireless-19-49.media.mit.edu) |
| 20:12.52 | prpplague | koen: interesting device, would be nice if they had an OEM version for integration into products |
| 20:12.57 | hads | One thing I haven't seen is info on distribution etc. I'm guessing that info is waiting for the mass market release. |
| 20:13.19 | Morgreet | "One Platform, No Limits" ... sheesh, pure marketting bull by Trolltech. |
| 20:14.25 | Morgreet | 7-inch LCD!!!!! |
| 20:14.32 | Morgreet | OK, I want one of those. |
| 20:14.43 | hads | I have customers (devel type customers) who would prefer to purchase off a local store. |
| 20:15.22 | koen | hads: FIC is talking with at least one distributor |
| 20:15.50 | prpplague | koen: distribution was always the problem with FIC's aquapads |
| 20:16.07 | prpplague | koen: more people would have purchased them, but just couldn't get your hands on them |
| 20:16.13 | *** join/#openmoko gabaug (n=gburt@207-229-164-50.alc-bsr1.chi-alc.il.cable.rcn.com) |
| 20:16.14 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 20:16.15 | *** join/#openmoko mako_ (n=mako@bork.hampshire.edu) |
| 20:16.36 | hads | koen: Cool. Do you/anyone know if there's going to be those commercial type announcements on the announce list? |
| 20:17.46 | Morgreet | 5V battery on that gadget, so any USB socket can be powered. |
| 20:18.18 | koen | hads: no idea |
| 20:18.42 | hads | No worries. Cheers for the info anyway |
| 20:19.20 | prpplague | Morgreet: you don't have to have 5v battery to power a usb host socket |
| 20:19.34 | koen | charge pump! |
| 20:19.36 | SpeedEvil | Just a converter. |
| 20:19.40 | SpeedEvil | Not a charge pump. |
| 20:19.45 | prpplague | exactly |
| 20:19.49 | SpeedEvil | Charge pumps are horribly inefficient. |
| 20:20.08 | SpeedEvil | And 5V (nominal) batteries don't really exist. |
| 20:20.10 | prpplague | the latest line of stuff is pretty darn good |
| 20:20.29 | Morgreet | You may not need a 5V battery in theory, but in practice you do --- since the 3.6V battery on the Neo is the reason why we aren't getting powered USB. |
| 20:20.33 | SpeedEvil | Well, you could hook 5 standard cells inseries if you were insane. |
| 20:20.49 | SpeedEvil | You neeed a battery, and a converter to 5V. |
| 20:20.53 | prpplague | our latest handheld is using 3.6v lipoly and we get 5v on the host port with no problems |
| 20:20.55 | SpeedEvil | You do not need a 5V battery. |
| 20:21.21 | prpplague | up to 500mA for the port, but in practice you probably don't want to exceed 120mA |
| 20:21.37 | Morgreet | Well tell FIC that, not me. :P The fact is, power was ommitted from Neo and that is bad for a whole lot of reasons. |
| 20:21.58 | Morgreet | And the only main justification given was that the battery was natively 3.6V. |
| 20:22.06 | prpplague | Morgreet: no reason you can't add a wedge |
| 20:22.53 | koen | pssst: the bt dongle is on internal usb |
| 20:23.31 | prpplague | koen: probably running at 3.3v anyway |
| 20:24.17 | prpplague | atleast 50% of usb devices these days actually run at 3.3v (or less) anyway |
| 20:24.48 | buz | "The H9 comes with a generous 4000mAh, 5-volt rechargeable lithium battery." what kind of weirdo li battery is that anyway |
| 20:25.43 | prpplague | buz: sounds fishy to me |
| 20:26.48 | SpeedEvil | li-ion batteries go bang at 5v. |
| 20:26.59 | buz | li potential is the usual 3.6V |
| 20:27.05 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 20:27.06 | buz | which is the highest potential there is IIRC |
| 20:27.12 | buz | and the reason we use li in the first place |
| 20:28.08 | noidd | I am so impatient |
| 20:28.25 | noidd | I wonder what class of postal mail they're going to send the devices out under |
| 20:28.28 | noidd | 2 day air |
| 20:28.31 | noidd | or land :-P |
| 20:28.35 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e70d936.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 20:28.47 | noidd | ugh, land would take 6 weeks to get from .tw to .us |
| 20:28.55 | buz | fedex does asia EU in justa bout 48hours |
| 20:29.07 | buz | and thats expensive |
| 20:29.12 | buz | any faster than that, you're talking very expensive |
| 20:29.39 | buz | expensive as in "sure, we'll send a guy with your package" expensive |
| 20:29.57 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668517.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 20:31.07 | SpeedEvil | Actually - LiF batteries can get 5.8V. |
| 20:31.23 | buz | F as in flourine? |
| 20:31.33 | buz | yeah i dont think i want that in my pocket |
| 20:32.38 | prpplague | man, kernel.org must be getting hammered |
| 20:32.39 | buz | halogens on the whole are a pretty evil bunch |
| 20:35.43 | prpplague | whats funny to me is the pcmcia/cf association went through the whole deal of have 5v devices and then moved to 3.3v, and then even supporting 1.8v devices, all the while the USB specs were always set at 5v with no real design ideas for lower voltages |
| 20:36.18 | prpplague | seems like they would have learned from the pcmcia/cf groups evolution |
| 20:37.58 | buz | pcmcia and cf have vastly more pins |
| 20:38.14 | buz | but you'd think USB could somehow negotiate voltage after some point... |
| 20:39.16 | prpplague | buz: yea, i mean like i have 10+ 802.11 dongles here, not one of them actually use 5v |
| 20:39.47 | buz | you mean they work with 3,6v? |
| 20:40.00 | buz | itd be vastly easier to feed them 3,6v |
| 20:40.07 | prpplague | buz: 3.3v |
| 20:40.47 | prpplague | buz: you can remove the switcher and just jumper across it, then just feed 3.3v in from the host, regulated of course |
| 20:41.26 | buz | i'd rather just use a bog standard 3,6v lion without any sldering... |
| 20:42.21 | prpplague | buz: yea, i'd have to check the values on the switcher, but 3.6 probably would work, but not below 3.4 |
| 20:42.59 | prpplague | buz: but my main point was that it would be easy to have a 3.3v version of USB |
| 20:43.28 | buz | yeah sure |
| 20:43.32 | buz | would make a lot more sense too |
| 20:43.39 | buz | or maybe go straight to 1.8V |
| 20:43.54 | prpplague | buz: without the switcher going from 5v to 3.3v on average we save about 50mA |
| 20:43.56 | buz | i mean besides 2.5hds, what actually pulls 5V |
| 20:44.47 | prpplague | buz: yea, if a device is big enough to need 5v its probably a stationary device like a printer or scanner |
| 20:45.05 | buz | are there buspowered printers? |
| 20:45.21 | prpplague | buz: and in that case you plug it into the wall |
| 20:45.22 | prpplague | buz: rarely |
| 20:45.22 | buz | ive seen bus powered scanners |
| 20:45.29 | prpplague | buz: oh yea? |
| 20:45.33 | buz | i think |
| 20:46.14 | prpplague | still they make all these bus powered peripherals for laptops and such, you'd think they'd be more power concerned |
| 20:47.35 | buz | well bus power is a nice idea in theory |
| 20:47.52 | buz | its obviously more efficient to produce 5V centrally than give a wall wart to every little thing |
| 20:50.33 | Morgreet | After politicians, lawyers, and fanboys, designers of wall warts will be the 4th up against the wall ;-))))) |
| 20:50.58 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 20:51.43 | SpeedEvil | 3.6v li-ion is only 3.6 for a short time |
| 20:51.53 | SpeedEvil | it goes from 4.2-3 |
| 20:52.06 | Morgreet | Cosmologists need to look closer to home when looking for the missing mass of the universe. It's not Dark Matter. It's all those wall warts. |
| 20:58.45 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 21:00.06 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@193.170.68.74) |
| 21:01.51 | noidd | I'd be happy with 48hrs :-) |
| 21:11.29 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-131-73.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 21:13.55 | *** join/#openmoko jessta_ (n=jessta@203-214-97-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 21:16.10 | *** join/#openmoko ozamosi (n=ozamosi@cust.fiber-lan.vnet.lk.85.194.49.186.stunet.se) |
| 21:25.13 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B03FC9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 21:29.02 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague^2 (n=dave@12.190.41.146) |
| 21:35.45 | *** join/#openmoko zween_ (n=zween@212-139-177-131.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 21:43.54 | *** part/#openmoko koljoman (n=nenni@rb4d109.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:44.22 | *** join/#openmoko nomasteryoda (n=nomaster@224.sub-75-203-145.myvzw.com) |
| 21:44.30 | nomasteryoda | wow |
| 21:44.44 | nomasteryoda | seems quite a few folks are interested in this phone |
| 21:44.50 | nomasteryoda | but where to buy? |
| 21:45.07 | Clint | counter |
| 21:45.07 | aloril | 6 days 08:14:52 (6.344 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.344 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.344 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 21:45.14 | nomasteryoda | oh cool.. Agrajag- is in here... |
| 21:45.35 | philippe | nomasteryoda: you'll have to wait until halfway march |
| 21:45.41 | nomasteryoda | ic |
| 21:46.01 | nomasteryoda | well, does that mean verizon or cingular will be selling them? |
| 21:46.20 | nomasteryoda | =D |
| 21:46.45 | philippe | nope, then the developer devices will be available .... |
| 21:46.52 | nomasteryoda | ic |
| 21:46.53 | nomasteryoda | ok |
| 21:47.07 | nomasteryoda | well then i guess i'll have to get a cheap phone until this baby comes out... |
| 21:47.15 | *** join/#openmoko raynet (i=raynet@thalassa.inside.org) |
| 21:47.16 | philippe | nomasteryoda: good idea :-) |
| 21:47.20 | nomasteryoda | if i can help, i'll certainly be willing to help |
| 21:47.32 | nomasteryoda | been using/supporting Linux since 1999 |
| 21:52.46 | *** join/#openmoko wbx_ (n=wbx@e179246027.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 22:01.26 | *** join/#openmoko Zer0HiT (n=Z@cpe-24-195-252-248.nycap.res.rr.com) |
| 22:03.49 | *** join/#openmoko abliss (i=abliss@nat/google/x-8b71c919d8ae9f99) |
| 22:03.53 | abliss | Jeez, sorry about that |
| 22:04.04 | abliss | Stupid firefox keeping its own pastebuffer! I thought I was pasting the url |
| 22:04.11 | abliss | http://pastebin.ca/341847 |
| 22:04.47 | cjb | abliss: thihk I'm missing context. |
| 22:04.51 | *** join/#openmoko omal (n=omal@24.164.111.184) |
| 22:05.12 | omal | quick dumb question from a guy who knows little about the openmoko project |
| 22:05.34 | abliss | er, sorry. wrong channel I guess :) |
| 22:05.36 | omal | i'm not really much of a developer, but might be interestede in getting one of these devices to monkey around with. is that even feasible at this point? |
| 22:05.46 | *** part/#openmoko abliss (i=abliss@nat/google/x-8b71c919d8ae9f99) |
| 22:05.58 | cjb | omal: see the website. |
| 22:06.29 | omal | referring to the frontpage that suggests devs email lists of what they've done? |
| 22:07.00 | cjb | yes. |
| 22:07.10 | cjb | if you don't feek comfortable doing that, of course you'll have to buy one. |
| 22:07.15 | cjb | s/feek/feel/ |
| 22:07.36 | omal | right, i'd be wasting someones time purporting to be a valuable coder |
| 22:07.46 | cjb | right. so what's your question? |
| 22:07.57 | omal | if it were possible to purchase one to play with now |
| 22:08.21 | cjb | it'll be possible in a month. |
| 22:08.35 | omal | ok, thats all i needed. thanks, and keep up the good work :D |
| 22:09.09 | *** part/#openmoko omal (n=omal@24.164.111.184) |
| 22:13.30 | *** join/#openmoko apadiss (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 22:22.04 | *** join/#openmoko Morgreet (n=morgaine@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust961.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 22:35.57 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB6D0D3.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:38.18 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e70d936.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 22:41.47 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@pjmvpc2rlc3.pjmv.aber.ac.uk) |
| 22:44.47 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg.demon.co.uk) |
| 22:46.28 | *** join/#openmoko nomasteryoda (n=nomaster@203.sub-75-202-188.myvzw.com) |
| 23:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 23:15.59 | noidd | counter |
| 23:15.59 | aloril | 6 days 06:44:00 (6.281 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, 6 days (34.281 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, 6 days (218.281 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 23:19.10 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-154-8.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 23:22.25 | aevin | hang in there. keep up the waiting :) |
| 23:26.15 | SpeedEvil | counter++ |
| 23:26.53 | Clint | wouldn't --counter be a better idea? |
| 23:30.45 | SpeedEvil | Hmm. |
| 23:35.27 | Morgreet | It seems that Free software use in Russia just got a boost from Bill Gates. Using unlicenced MS software preloaded on his PC has earned a Russian schoolteacher 5 years in a Siberian prison. (Slashdot story, 4th down) |
| 23:35.59 | SpeedEvil | That probably wasn't the real offence though. |
| 23:38.37 | Morgreet | And that's not the real story either. Agendas everywhere. The real story, but not a new one, is that the copyright/piracy lobbies have distorted justice around the world, and the judicial systems are being pressured through WIPO etc. |
| 23:40.09 | mjr | 5 years eh |
| 23:40.45 | SpeedEvil | Well - no. In that case the real story was probably completely unrelated to his real offence. |
| 23:40.45 | mjr | I just heard about it, only that Gorbachev himself has pleaded the teacher's case to Bill Gates |
| 23:40.45 | *** join/#openmoko thresh (n=popa3d@unaffiliated/thresh) |
| 23:40.49 | Morgreet | Clint: count = 0; /* expect your Neo's in the post tomorrow. */ :-) |
| 23:40.55 | thresh | hi guys |
| 23:41.01 | SpeedEvil | As they were looking for something, anything on the books to charge him with. |
| 23:41.16 | Clint | Morgreet: hurrah |
| 23:41.19 | Clint | hopefully they have my address |
| 23:42.35 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e70d936.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 23:43.24 | Morgreet | Any software used in education should be free, anyway. In fact, s/w makers should PAY for their software to be used in education, as it's blatant indoctrination. |
| 23:43.46 | mjr | indeed |
| 23:44.00 | mjr | we're trying to lobby a bit here for free software usage in education |
| 23:44.23 | mjr | a few schools are going for it, hopefully they do well enough for others to follow |
| 23:50.26 | Morgreet | Too many teachers succumb to the "But this isn't what my kids will be using at work" complaint. The answer should be "We are not in the business of vocational training." |
