| 00:00.04 | slava | or rather I already have |
| 00:00.06 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Factor? |
| 00:00.09 | slava | yes |
| 00:00.28 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Sweet. |
| 00:00.32 | slava | pr3d4t0r: i have one of these: http://gumstix.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=167 |
| 00:01.08 | CM | slava: Cool project btw, I'm impressed :) |
| 00:01.13 | slava | thanks |
| 00:01.38 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Nice. I met one of the ARM designers on an airplane a couple of months ago and stayed in touch with him. |
| 00:01.56 | pr3d4t0r | slava: In case we need one of those in-a-hurry responses not in the manuals yet :) |
| 00:02.11 | slava | pr3d4t0r: the manuals are pretty good, as far as CPU instruction set references go. |
| 00:02.24 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Yeah. ARM is a pretty nice architecture. |
| 00:02.30 | slava | pr3d4t0r: i'm looking for a usb<->serial adapter for my mac; why suggestions for a reputable online store that sells this type of thing? |
| 00:02.50 | slava | seems hard to come by. nobody cares about rs232 anymore |
| 00:03.03 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Check if Central Computer has them. If they do check the price. If you don't like the price shoot me an email and I'll get the stuff for you with my discount and ship it to you. |
| 00:03.18 | pr3d4t0r | slava: http://www.centralcomputer.com - try these guys. |
| 00:03.23 | slava | google found 'em :) |
| 00:03.27 | pr3d4t0r | slava: ;) |
| 00:03.45 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Their official list on-line and what I get may differ. But they'll ship anywhere in the world and have superb customer service. |
| 00:04.18 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Don't order from the web site; I'll give you the phone number for my sales lady here in SF and call her directly. |
| 00:04.56 | slava | pr3d4t0r: its only 20 bucks |
| 00:05.01 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Ah. |
| 00:05.15 | slava | won't break the bank if there's no discount :) |
| 00:05.24 | SpeedEvil | ebay has them for around half that. |
| 00:05.25 | pr3d4t0r | slava: My discount kicks in at $100 anyway :) |
| 00:05.38 | SpeedEvil | (incl delivery) |
| 00:07.18 | *** part/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178226191.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 00:08.37 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 00:09.21 | pr3d4t0r | slava: For other gear these guys rock. If you need anything more expensive let me know. Jonathan and I (and almost every geek I know) buy our kit here. |
| 00:09.33 | slava | sure |
| 00:09.35 | pr3d4t0r | slava: |
| 00:09.42 | slava | pr3d4t0r: |
| 00:09.43 | pr3d4t0r | slava: They are very Linux/*BSD friendly. |
| 00:10.06 | pr3d4t0r | slava: And if you need Apple-compatible kit they'll get it for you as long as you know what it is you want. |
| 00:10.32 | slava | pr3d4t0r: i'm going to upgrade the RAM in my G5 at some point in the future so i'll take you up on your offer then. |
| 00:11.18 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@c-24-128-243-228.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 00:13.02 | pr3d4t0r | slava: OKi. |
| 00:13.15 | pr3d4t0r | slava: They got me a good deal on Kensington memory for my MacBook :) |
| 00:13.46 | pr3d4t0r | slava: And if that future is more or less around early March, I may be in Canada and ship the memory to you from there -- no duties. |
| 00:13.56 | pr3d4t0r | slava: That's when I go skiing to Whistler for a week. |
| 00:13.56 | slava | whereabouts in canada? |
| 00:13.59 | slava | ah |
| 00:14.02 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Vancouver. |
| 00:14.11 | slava | fun |
| 00:14.15 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Yeah :) |
| 00:14.20 | pr3d4t0r | slava: I only ski once/year. |
| 00:14.25 | pr3d4t0r | slava: But when I do, I go all out :) |
| 00:14.52 | slava | pr3d4t0r: i gotta go out to dinner. talk to you later |
| 00:14.59 | slava | say hi to your g1rlz for me. |
| 00:15.21 | pr3d4t0r | slava: Heh. Bon appetit. |
| 00:26.04 | pr3d4t0r | Thanks everyone - have a nice wknd. |
| 00:26.05 | *** join/#openmoko ans (n=anselm@pool-71-244-143-199.chi.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 00:26.05 | *** part/#openmoko pr3d4t0r (n=cu4cu4@pdpc/supporter/active/pr3d4t0r) |
| 00:30.59 | *** join/#openmoko jessta_ (n=jessta@203-214-97-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 00:41.35 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 00:50.49 | *** join/#openmoko Anon9714 (n=Anon9714@183.pool85-52-193.static.orange.es) |
| 00:52.47 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 01:09.32 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 01:10.55 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:11.44 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 01:36.59 | *** join/#openmoko cpfr (n=fourier@nat01-mccormick-ext.Rutgers.EDU) |
| 01:39.12 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 01:45.03 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@203-206-86-98.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:46.05 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 01:49.43 | *** join/#openmoko Bipolar (n=bflong@h460582f5.area7.spcsdns.net) |
| 01:54.37 | *** join/#openmoko NAiL (n=repvik@nslu2-linux/pdpc.active.NAiL) |
| 01:54.44 | *** join/#openmoko ans_ (n=anselm@pool-71-244-253-172.chi01.dsl-w.verizon.net) |
| 02:01.28 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 02:02.40 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar (n=demitar@c-212-031-189-107.cust.broadway.se) |
| 02:10.07 | *** join/#openmoko vetetux (n=vetetix@63.27-218-195.adsl.internet.lu) |
| 02:20.34 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 02:23.04 | *** join/#openmoko ycheng (n=ycheng@dns1.2share.net) |
| 02:26.38 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001310d36705.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 02:35.25 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668517.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 02:35.52 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 02:46.54 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@dsl093-060-111.pit1.dsl.speakeasy.net) |
| 03:00.43 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 03:06.16 | *** join/#openmoko gnrfan (n=gnrfan@190.40.43.248) |
| 03:11.57 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 03:12.13 | DukeOfURL | anyone know if the cell tower ID will be accessible in the phone? |
| 03:13.11 | SpeedEvil | Probably not. |
| 03:13.28 | SpeedEvil | We only get AT commands to the phones modem. |
| 03:14.01 | SpeedEvil | I've not seen a GSM modem that supports that. |
| 03:14.07 | SpeedEvil | I may of course be completely wrong. |
| 03:15.24 | SpeedEvil | The phone part is a closed-source TI chip. |
| 03:16.36 | *** join/#openmoko faded515 (n=faded515@cpc3-hatf4-0-0-cust764.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 03:22.38 | DukeOfURL | :=( |
| 03:26.43 | SpeedEvil | Well - a truly open phone with the GSM bit open too would actually be arrestable for being in possession of in the UK. |
| 03:26.55 | SpeedEvil | And selling them has severe penalties. |
| 03:27.32 | SpeedEvil | Admittedly, it's not happened before, but people have been imprisoned for supplying phone hacking tools. |
| 03:28.30 | notsmack | you'd think the misuse would be the part that's illegal |
| 03:31.45 | DukeOfURL | In the UK, it's an arrestable offense to refuse to be searched. |
| 03:32.23 | DukeOfURL | Go figure. |
| 03:34.13 | *** join/#openmoko r4kY (n=Ladder_@ws42107.studby.hig.no) |
| 03:34.39 | orospakr | The UK hints at a police state, doesn't it? |
| 03:42.34 | DukeOfURL | Is an emulator available? |
| 03:43.01 | SpeedEvil | It's an offence to have equipmemt that can change a phones IMEI |
| 03:43.13 | SpeedEvil | and some other stuff. |
| 03:43.52 | notsmack | have a link to the relevant legal code? |
| 03:45.25 | DukeOfURL | Is Cingular going to have a problem with these phones? Ut wouldn't be difficult for them to determine the IMEI of the Neos. |
| 03:47.05 | slava | will the openmoto be usable in canada? |
| 03:48.19 | DukeOfURL | I'm guessing freenode is really, really slow tonight. |
| 03:50.57 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@c-65-96-191-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 03:51.15 | leventhal | slava: Yes, on Rogers or Fido |
| 03:51.25 | slava | ok |
| 03:51.34 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@netblock-68-183-179-95.dslextreme.com) |
| 04:39.24 | *** join/#openmoko maydaytx (i=johndoe@cpe-67-9-70-44.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 04:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 04:42.49 | *** join/#openmoko omaru (n=omaru@189.155.152.32) |
| 04:58.24 | aloril | firefox using 2334m of virtual memory ;-) |
| 05:12.00 | slava | horray for ad-hoc memory management strategies |
| 05:14.47 | *** join/#openmoko mitcheloc (n=mitchelo@titaniumsoft.net) |
| 05:20.04 | jessta_ | aloril: WTF? what have you got open in firefox? |
| 05:21.29 | aloril | jessta_: just a 'few' windows each with 'few' pages ;-) |
| 05:23.27 | jessta_ | Do these 'few' pages contain flash player movies? |
| 05:24.45 | aloril | should not, but some might, but there were like 15-20 windows open and in each from 1-10 tabs ;-) |
| 05:25.15 | aloril | though many were dummy tabs, it uses surprisingly much memory for just one line of text |
| 05:40.56 | aloril | mjr: it was a bug, now it changes context back here before sending msg to #openmoko (some spammer in other server sent private msg) |
| 05:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.132.68.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 05:42.12 | *** part/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@193.170.134.179) |
| 06:00.00 | aloril | counter |
| 06:00.00 | aloril | a week, a day 23:59:59 (9.000 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (37.000 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (221.000 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 06:00.42 | aloril | month+week+day Neo1973 |
| 06:01.09 | aloril | + almost full day ;-) |
| 06:02.59 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 06:11.47 | *** join/#openmoko Psi (n=benw@203.152.97.213) |
| 06:20.09 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 06:20.16 | aloril2 | just making sure I have fixed bug |
| 06:20.18 | aloril2 | counter |
| 06:20.19 | aloril | a week, a day 23:39:41 (8.986 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.986 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.986 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 06:21.51 | *** join/#openmoko ryoohki (n=ryoohki@adsl-71-134-237-131.dsl.pltn13.pacbell.net) |
| 06:22.37 | ryoohki | hmm |
| 06:22.41 | ryoohki | anyone here? |
| 06:22.49 | aloril | ryoohki: yes |
| 06:22.54 | ryoohki | oh good |
| 06:23.04 | ryoohki | is this phone available yet? |
| 06:23.15 | noidd | counter |
| 06:23.15 | aloril | a week, a day 23:36:44 (8.984 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.984 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.984 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 06:23.26 | noidd | bah, you keep moving the clock :-P |
| 06:23.46 | ryoohki | hmmmm |
| 06:23.48 | aloril | noidd: have changed it only twice ;-) |
| 06:24.04 | aloril | noidd: first time from EET to UTC and second time from UTC to CST + day |
| 06:24.29 | ryoohki | what about the other open phone - the one with qt? |
| 06:26.45 | ryoohki | trolltech's greenphone |
| 06:26.51 | cbpage | it definitely costs more too |
| 06:26.54 | aloril | this has basically only agpsd closed (and gsm is separate module), but no doubt that will be opened soon ;- |
| 06:27.01 | aloril | ) |
| 06:27.15 | aloril | agpsd that is |
| 06:27.29 | ryoohki | yes, it think qt has a different license but i think it's not too unaccetable for many people |
| 06:27.40 | aloril | greenphone has drm too |
| 06:28.04 | ryoohki | agpsd? is that the sd driver? there is an open sd card driver |
| 06:28.11 | ryoohki | oh |
| 06:28.17 | aloril | ryoohki: GPL is OK for me, but it has DRM and something else what I don't recall now closed |
| 06:28.18 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@133.27.240.160) |
| 06:28.42 | aloril | ryoohki: in past even qtopia was closed but better now I think, anyway, 2x price, 1/4 screen pixels ;-) |
| 06:29.31 | ryoohki | better scree |
| 06:29.32 | ryoohki | n |
| 06:29.43 | ryoohki | yup |
| 06:29.57 | aloril | ryoohki: agpsd: user space GPS daemon, it has cheap GPS chip that does only some simple stuff and actual calculations are done in closed binary daemon |
| 06:30.03 | ryoohki | i like the openmoko |
| 06:30.11 | ryoohki | huu |
| 06:30.13 | ryoohki | h |
| 06:30.33 | aloril | ryoohki: no doubt somebody will decipher protocol and use GPL code to replace proprietary module |
| 06:30.52 | ryoohki | i just went to fry's and the wrt54gl costs a bit more than the other wrt54g's |
| 06:30.59 | ryoohki | good! |
| 06:31.41 | *** join/#openmoko rd_ (n=redragon@dewey.mag.keio.ac.jp) |
| 06:32.05 | ryoohki | verizon nickles and dimes their customers. they actually supply the gps to you - hope you don't get lost in a remote area and the phone is useless |
| 06:34.33 | cbpage | yeah they cost reduced the regular g's - and then changed chipsets altogether |
| 06:34.53 | *** join/#openmoko initself (n=mike@wsip-68-15-84-25.oc.oc.cox.net) |
| 06:35.11 | initself | Is this phone going to work on CDMA networks? |
| 06:35.12 | cbpage | the latter happened about the same time linux hackers managed to make it fit in the first nerfed version |
| 06:35.14 | cbpage | nope |
| 06:35.25 | cbpage | even if it did verizon et al probably wouldn't activate it |
| 06:35.45 | ryoohki | problem is, you have to carry about a bluetooth keyboard |
| 06:35.46 | initself | What network/vendor embraces this kind of enterprise? |
| 06:35.54 | cbpage | GSM networks |
| 06:36.00 | cbpage | in the US that's tmobile and cingular |
| 06:36.04 | initself | Period, all providers? |
| 06:36.11 | cbpage | yeah all GSM providers |
| 06:36.13 | initself | Nice. |
| 06:36.16 | ryoohki | the zaurus or jornada 720 clamshell design avoided that |
| 06:36.30 | initself | no wifi? |
| 06:36.34 | cbpage | nope |
| 06:36.40 | initself | :( |
| 06:36.46 | ryoohki | will it had sdio? |
| 06:36.58 | cbpage | no sdio - that's encumbered |
| 06:37.07 | ryoohki | no, there is a driver |
| 06:37.08 | cbpage | same with all known low-power wifi chips |
| 06:37.13 | cbpage | ok :) |
| 06:37.18 | cbpage | but it's micro-sd under the battery |
| 06:37.19 | aloril | micro SD is under battery |
| 06:37.39 | cbpage | in practice using sdio would be... tricky |
| 06:37.53 | ryoohki | under the battery? you have to powerdown to eject? |
| 06:38.15 | cbpage | *nod* |
| 06:38.28 | cbpage | so get one card that's big enough for everything you want ;) |
| 06:38.29 | ryoohki | there should be a faq bot |
| 06:38.33 | cbpage | there are 1gb and 2gb cards |
| 06:39.16 | aloril | ie.. something like this: "wifi?" triggers it also if nick has not been seen earlier and says wifi.*\? then trigger too (once of course) |
| 06:39.44 | cbpage | wonder if we can persuade them to put a full-sd card in v2 |
| 06:39.51 | cbpage | if nokia can be talked into it with the 770->800 ;) |
| 06:40.02 | aloril | or if that is not enough, get battery powered USB hub + battery powered USB hard drive (up to 160GB) |
| 06:40.21 | cbpage | i want usb2 more than wifi |
| 06:40.35 | cbpage | did i just say that? ;) |
| 06:40.40 | ryoohki | no - wifi is important |
| 06:41.11 | ryoohki | they need to add a phone to the 770 - 800 series |
| 06:41.41 | cbpage | i wonder how the openembeded builds are going for the 770 |
| 06:41.50 | cbpage | since it looks like nokia won't be releasing much more new firmware for it |
| 06:41.59 | ryoohki | no perfect phone |
| 06:42.27 | cbpage | . o O (get in touch with Washu - she could do it!) |
| 06:42.57 | ryoohki | i would take the zaurus 3200 and make the hd accessable, and add a camera on a roll bard like to cute sonys used to have |
| 06:43.14 | ryoohki | (;_:) |
| 06:43.40 | ryoohki | =(-*-)= |
| 06:44.52 | cbpage | don't they have gsm cf cards that work with the z? |
| 06:46.32 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 06:51.41 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 06:53.30 | ryoohki | do they? that would be too cool! i want a zaurus that powers on when a call comes in |
| 06:59.34 | ryoohki | gotta go, bye all! |
| 07:04.39 | *** join/#openmoko matsch (n=matsch@dyndsl-085-016-047-088.ewe-ip-backbone.de) |
| 07:07.40 | *** join/#openmoko lightyear (n=lightyea@p54874DE9.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:05.47 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 08:20.35 | *** join/#openmoko bluelightning (n=blueligh@222-155-149-46.jetstream.xtra.co.nz) |
| 08:27.55 | *** join/#openmoko l3010o_ (n=leo@n219079066049.netvigator.com) |
| 09:00.36 | *** join/#openmoko Eludias (n=eludias@wingding.demon.nl) |
| 09:12.45 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-251-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 09:16.03 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 09:17.01 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:40.23 | *** join/#openmoko jessta (n=jessta@203-214-97-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:40.36 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:43.19 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 09:47.18 | *** join/#openmoko koljoman (n=nenni@rb4d109.net.upc.cz) |
| 09:47.29 | koljoman | hi a"moko"s |
| 09:48.28 | SpeedEvil | notsmack: http://www.unlocks.co.uk/nokiaunlock-law.php |
| 09:58.08 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 10:08.42 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-221-230.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 10:14.20 | SpeedEvil | notsmack: my bad - last time I read it - not in neo context - I skipped over the 'with makers consent' option - with which it's legal (in the uk to change IMEI). It's only illegal to supply if you know or believe it's being used for criminality. |
| 10:17.37 | SpeedEvil | Which of course as soon as volumes are sold, and you are told by the police that it is, you (the distributor) are now liable to go to jail if the court then holds that knowledge that a fraction of your goods being used criminally = 'he knows or believes that the person to whom the thing is supplied intends to use it unlawfully for that purpose or to allow it to be used unlawfully for that purpose.' |
| 10:19.23 | *** join/#openmoko jessta_ (n=jessta@203-214-97-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 10:25.25 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 10:27.32 | *** join/#openmoko l4rs (n=laprican@hsiproxy.astra-net.com) |
| 10:32.25 | *** join/#openmoko Morgreet (n=morgaine@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust961.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 10:37.36 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p5081D896.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 10:47.14 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 10:51.52 | SpeedEvil | Updated by http://www.opsi.gov.uk/acts/acts2006/60038--f.htm#62 though irrelevant in this case. |
| 10:56.01 | *** join/#openmoko rd__ (n=redragon@segfault.net) |
| 10:57.22 | Morgreet | You FUD'ing the project again, SpeedEvil? |
| 11:00.32 | SpeedEvil | No - this is a completley irrelevant bit to the neo. |
| 11:02.09 | SpeedEvil | Was a question earlier about the legislation which stops reprogramming the IMEI of phones in the UK. |
| 11:03.29 | Morgreet | I'm glad to hear it's irrelevant. But talking about legal things that are irrelevant creates FUD. It raises a spectre over the project. |
| 11:03.31 | SpeedEvil | Was a question earlier about the legislation which stops reprogramming the IMEI of phones in the UK. |
| 11:05.17 | SpeedEvil | It's not quite, there was a question on how open the GSM part was, which I answered. It would be nice for it to be fully open, but there is no way it wouldn't be used for crime, and get in trouble :( |
| 11:05.28 | SpeedEvil | counter |
| 11:05.28 | aloril | a week, a day 18:54:31 (8.788 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.788 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.788 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 11:06.41 | madwoota | need a counter counter |
| 11:06.46 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 11:06.55 | madwoota | count how many "counter"s |
| 11:06.56 | madwoota | :P |
| 11:07.09 | Stephmw | there's this fascination with any geek to go tinker ;) it's hard to accept the GSM part as being hout of bounds |
| 11:07.29 | Stephmw | then again, how many people go and rewrite their Intel x86 microcode? |
| 11:07.33 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - there are so many fun things that could be done. |
| 11:07.39 | SpeedEvil | None, as it's signed. |
| 11:07.41 | madwoota | i'm more of a "if it works, dont mess with it" type :P |
| 11:07.49 | SpeedEvil | And there is no docs. |
| 11:08.08 | Morgreet | Well since the Neo is fully open only to the point where the host SoC meets the serial interfaces to the various devices, any talk about what might or might not be legal if we had access *behind* those interfaces is irrelevant to us. But it still stirs doubt among those who don't know the difference, and that's unhelpful. |
| 11:08.34 | madwoota | isnt the the D from FUD ? :) |
| 11:08.38 | madwoota | that the * |
| 11:09.00 | Morgreet | Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt |
| 11:09.16 | madwoota | rhetorical question ^ |
| 11:09.18 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I think it's interesting to discuss what it is possible to open, and what bits legalities prevent. |
| 11:09.31 | SpeedEvil | Even if those legalities are really, really annoying. |
| 11:09.54 | Stephmw | ... only kidding |
| 11:10.03 | Jo2 | Opening radio on consumer products will always present legal problems |
| 11:10.07 | Morgreet | It might be a good idea, Stephmw. |
| 11:10.45 | Stephmw | Morgreet: I'm afraid it might imply there's actually serious legal chatter in such a chanenel (people may infer some tenuous backing from FIC where none exists) |
| 11:10.45 | SpeedEvil | True - but AIUI, nobodies been arrested for wifi hacking. People have for phone hacking. |
| 11:10.58 | SpeedEvil | And even sent down. |
| 11:11.06 | Jo2 | that is a different scenario |
| 11:11.22 | SpeedEvil | (which can't be done on the neo) |
| 11:11.26 | Morgreet | Stop casting FUD!!!! We are not hacking this phone! It's an open phone by design, fer crissake! |
| 11:11.32 | Stephmw | a better forum for legalistic discussions really is the mailing list, people can give more considered answers and questions |
| 11:11.59 | Stephmw | freenode's a network for techies, let's keep it that way :) |
| 11:12.05 | Morgreet | Yeah |
| 11:12.08 | madwoota | huh ? |
| 11:12.11 | madwoota | since when ? |
| 11:12.12 | madwoota | lol |
| 11:12.22 | SpeedEvil | I am not casting FUD - I have throughout the GSM thing said that this does not apply to the neo, though it would to an 'open' GSM phone. |
| 11:12.24 | Jo2 | Morgreet: What FUD? Had too much cafeine today? ;) |
| 11:12.28 | Stephmw | madwoota: I should've said geeks ;) |
| 11:12.40 | Stephmw | madwoota: but wanted to exclude the legal-geeks :) |
| 11:12.46 | SpeedEvil | The supply part at least. |
| 11:13.13 | madwoota | i'm obviously in too many of the wrong types of channels |
| 11:13.26 | SpeedEvil | (not relevant to neo) it's legal to change the IMEI on your own devices, with the makers consent. |
| 11:13.40 | Morgreet | Jo2: spreading fear about what might happen if we program our Neo is exactly what FUD means. Look it up. |
| 11:14.14 | madwoota | copying dvd's is also "illegal" in most countries, but dvd recorders are still sold |
| 11:14.23 | Jo2 | Morgreet: Nothing here is spreading fear |
| 11:14.29 | Jo2 | chill |
| 11:14.29 | madwoota | disclaimers are a wonderful thing |
| 11:14.32 | Jo2 | hehe |
| 11:15.16 | Stephmw | madwoota: what are you doing in #donkeys-are-teh-sexzi ? |
| 11:15.27 | madwoota | aww crap |
| 11:15.39 | madwoota | thought it was +s :( |
| 11:15.49 | Morgreet | FIC is specifically designing this thing for the FOSS community to program as they want. That's the goal, that's Sean's vision. And FIC has plenty of lawyers that will have checked that it's in order. |
| 11:16.26 | Jo2 | Everything is in order...teh questionable parts (ex. the radio) are closed |
| 11:16.42 | SpeedEvil | I have no argument with the legality of the phone as shipped currently. I am certain it is legal. |
| 11:16.44 | madwoota | some things dont *need* to be user configurable tho |
| 11:16.51 | Stephmw | madwoota: I wasn't going to mention #sex-toys-for-mobiles |
| 11:17.03 | madwoota | thanks :P |
| 11:17.11 | madwoota | oh wait |
| 11:17.17 | madwoota | its #mobiles-are-sex-toys |
| 11:17.21 | Jo2 | hehe |
| 11:17.23 | SpeedEvil | I have doubts about the legality of it shipping with a hypothetical - as yet to be installed OSS gps daemon. |
| 11:17.23 | madwoota | vibrate function ! |
| 11:17.39 | SpeedEvil | You do know that there are bluetooth 'devices' ? |
| 11:17.49 | Jo2 | btw, does the gps unit 'require' a net connection to operate? |
| 11:17.53 | SpeedEvil | no. |
| 11:17.53 | Morgreet | SpeedEvil: well doubts about the legality of us programming it are *precisely* the FUD we don't want. |
| 11:18.02 | Jo2 | good....read something that gave me doubts |
| 11:18.18 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 11:18.28 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: yeah, saw one on TheRegister... |
| 11:18.44 | SpeedEvil | The GPS gets fixes rapidly when turned on 'warm' |
| 11:19.00 | SpeedEvil | which is something like if it's been on for 30 seconds in the last 24 hours. |
| 11:19.24 | Jo2 | well, as long as I don't need to use GPRS to get tables I'm happy |
| 11:19.35 | Morgreet | Here we go, the FUD starts. We badly need to get Sean to comment here, before SpeedEvil sends this project down the tubes. |
| 11:19.51 | SpeedEvil | It will get slower fixes if it's been off for some time, or you've moved several thousand km. |
| 11:19.57 | Jo2 | Morgreet: what are you talking about now? |
| 11:20.21 | SpeedEvil | The data speeds lock times up if the GPS has not been on for 30s in the last few hours. |
| 11:20.23 | Stephmw | madwoota: you almost made me snort my tea :) |
| 11:20.37 | SpeedEvil | And also knowledge of position speeds lock up if you've moved. |
| 11:20.55 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:21.16 | Jo2 | I don't care how long I need to wait for it to warm up...As long as a connection via GPRS isn't necessary |
| 11:21.24 | Jo2 | Too expensive here |
| 11:22.20 | SpeedEvil | For a phone plugged into a computer, it[s probably reasonable whenever you go to charge it to upload the ephimerides. |
| 11:22.33 | SpeedEvil | This will help battery life by a tiny amount. |
| 11:22.43 | SpeedEvil | If you only want occasional fixes. |
| 11:23.39 | Jo2 | I don't want ANY dependence on a connection in order for GPS to function |
| 11:23.47 | SpeedEvil | There isn't. |
| 11:23.54 | SpeedEvil | It's just slightly faster. |
| 11:24.26 | SpeedEvil | The absolute worst case - no position or time knowledge still gets you a position in several minutes. |
| 11:25.37 | SpeedEvil | Annoyingly the brief datasheet doesn't give power information, so it's not clear how much power just keeping the GPS on all the time will take. |
| 11:26.14 | SpeedEvil | Probably not much. |
| 11:27.01 | madwoota | and a configurable update time will probably keep it low |
| 11:27.12 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 11:27.34 | SpeedEvil | You should be able to get position several times a minute cheaply. |
| 11:27.43 | SpeedEvil | Which will be just fine for many apps. |
| 11:28.35 | SpeedEvil | Though in any case, the display will utterly swamp it, so interactive uses are not affected. |
| 11:29.04 | Stephmw | it'd be interesting to have an adaptive update rare |
| 11:29.07 | Stephmw | *rate |
| 11:29.21 | Stephmw | movememnt detected->faster updating |
| 11:29.41 | SpeedEvil | True. An accellerometer would be nice for triggering that. |
| 11:29.49 | koen | no, a FPGA! |
| 11:30.04 | SpeedEvil | If the A/D on the mic is not _too_ expensive. |
| 11:30.21 | SpeedEvil | Then running it all the time, you can add a 'whistle a tune' to locate me. |
| 11:30.41 | madwoota | a field programmable gate array ? |
| 11:30.55 | koen | OMG FPGA!!! |
| 11:30.57 | koen | OMG WIFI!!! |
| 11:30.59 | koen | OMG GNU!!! |
| 11:31.09 | SpeedEvil | Using the CPU to decompose the incoming signal into fuzzy frequency bins, then feeding to a fuzzy time matcher, it can respond only to a particular tune. |
| 11:31.11 | koen | there, now we have covered all topics |
| 11:31.22 | Morgreet | You forgot ponies :P |
| 11:31.26 | SpeedEvil | Even with minor pitch/speed variations. |
| 11:31.35 | madwoota | donkeys > ponies ! |
| 11:31.38 | SpeedEvil | No, it's going to be a Gnu. |
| 11:31.44 | SpeedEvil | Not a pony. |
| 11:32.37 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: I was thinking of doing it on the cheap... compare last two position fixes... if they're past a certain threshold, increase frequency, otherwise decrease |
| 11:32.49 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - that's of course possible. |
| 11:33.08 | Stephmw | gps reception is fully passive, right? |
| 11:33.11 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 11:33.20 | Stephmw | wonder how that fares inside a cabin |
| 11:33.28 | SpeedEvil | Depends on the roof. |
| 11:33.41 | Stephmw | I'm thinking 737-style cabins :) |
| 11:33.42 | SpeedEvil | My garmin GPS 12 will sort-of lock under some thin roofs. |
| 11:33.55 | SpeedEvil | Ah - in that case, only against a window. |
| 11:33.56 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 11:34.04 | Stephmw | SpeedEvil: good, that's a relief |
| 11:34.22 | SpeedEvil | The GPS on the neo is 8 times more sensitive. |
| 11:34.43 | SpeedEvil | So it may work inside many buildings. |
| 11:34.57 | Stephmw | buildings are mostly ok, planes would be a concern |
| 11:35.11 | SpeedEvil | Single story non-metal roofed buildings. |
| 11:35.18 | Morgreet | My SIRF-III one is fine indoors, even with another floor above, except in certain parts of the ground floor. |
| 11:36.17 | SpeedEvil | It's going to depend a lot on construction details - for example, some insulation board has foil liners. |
| 11:36.41 | koen | gps doesn't really work inside a plane |
| 11:36.51 | koen | sirf3 freaks out on 4 digit speeds |
| 11:36.53 | SpeedEvil | I'm currently insulating my house - and incidentally killing mobbile reception inside :( |
| 11:36.58 | Stephmw | koen: shhhh, you've ruined my FUD business |
| 11:37.11 | SpeedEvil | 4 digit speeds? |
| 11:37.18 | Morgreet | Yep. UK roofs tend to contain no metal, just a wood frame, tar fabric and tiles, so no problem. |
| 11:37.19 | koen | 1000km/h |
| 11:37.42 | Stephmw | well, that rules concorde out |
| 11:38.00 | Stephmw | don't think most commercial flights exceed 700km/s |
| 11:38.38 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 11:38.43 | SpeedEvil | 99% of commercial stuff cruises at 820. |
| 11:38.48 | SpeedEvil | err mach .82 |
| 11:38.57 | Stephmw | ah, my mistake |
| 11:38.58 | SpeedEvil | 870 |
| 11:39.03 | Stephmw | s/700/870/ |
| 11:39.05 | Stephmw | all fixed |
| 11:39.06 | SpeedEvil | that's long-hail |
| 11:39.08 | SpeedEvil | haul |
| 11:39.31 | SpeedEvil | As that's about where the fuel burn is lowest for jets at altitude. |
| 11:39.48 | SpeedEvil | (this does not apply to neo battery life) |
| 11:40.01 | Stephmw | ;) |
| 11:42.28 | Stephmw | non-moko related... I wonder if an optical mouse could be modded to scan barcodes... |
| 11:42.46 | Jo2 | why wouldn't it be able to |
| 11:42.49 | Jo2 | ;) |
| 11:42.54 | Morgreet | I hope the Silent profile implements muting far down the sound chain, beyond what normal apps can change, or Neo will get a bad rep in cinemas when arbitrary FOSS code activates sound. ;-) |
| 11:43.16 | Stephmw | :) |
| 11:43.39 | Jo2 | Maybe the sound can be cross checked to determing the environment |
| 11:44.32 | Morgreet | Well that was part of Sean's vision for it :-) |
| 11:44.40 | Jo2 | like the way some companies want to use your computer microphone to determing what movie you may be watching |
| 11:44.44 | Stephmw | Jo2: looks like my thought is pretty old.. http://slashdot.org/articles/06/01/08/1536200.shtml |
| 11:45.58 | Jo2 | Hmm, actually, the GPS would be much better suited for a solution to that problem |
| 11:46.43 | Jo2 | A table of GPS locations that are downloadable for setting standard environment |
| 11:47.02 | SpeedEvil | Even a sharable wiki type thingy. |
| 11:47.02 | Jo2 | silent environment |
| 11:47.19 | Jo2 | updateable sould be necessary, yet |
| 11:47.22 | Jo2 | yes |
| 11:47.32 | SpeedEvil | If you have not been in an environment before, but another user has put their phone on quiet there, then it vibrates and asks you if it should be. |
| 11:47.46 | Morgreet | The world's too big for that. But configuring your office and home coordinates into it for setting profiles, yep, that's a good use. |
| 11:47.48 | Jo2 | well, that sounds a bit irritations |
| 11:47.51 | Jo2 | irritating |
| 11:48.05 | Jo2 | lots of places I haven't been yet |
| 11:48.15 | Jo2 | wouldn't want to be bugged every few minutes |
| 11:48.25 | SpeedEvil | Or maybe if most people have put their phone on quiet there. |
| 11:48.29 | SpeedEvil | That might be more sane. |
| 11:48.43 | SpeedEvil | As an option of course. |
| 11:48.50 | Jo2 | But when putting a phone on silent, an option to update the database with that as a standard recommendation..... |
| 11:49.00 | SpeedEvil | yeah. |
| 11:49.03 | Jo2 | If it isn't already there |
| 11:50.05 | SpeedEvil | If we have a 2G card as standard, then storing a few hundred thousand locations isn't that bad. |
| 11:50.26 | Jo2 | So, if anyone here thought that was an interesting idea, go for it. That idea is now GPL'ed. :D |
| 11:51.03 | Jo2 | You wouldn't need so many locations....depends on were you are...the rest of the world isn't a concern |
| 11:51.12 | Jo2 | until you get there ;) |
| 11:54.20 | Jo2 | using the GPS information to determine precise area for setting might be a challange though |
| 11:54.26 | Morgreet | Ooooh ... just occurred to me that we could use the Neo's USB for not only time-lapse photography with a camera, but triggered photography, eg. when the mike detects sound. |
| 11:55.11 | Jo2 | Neo security platform |
| 11:55.13 | Jo2 | hehe |
| 11:56.05 | Morgreet | Jo2: indeed ... and it can phone out to notify of the detection. |
| 11:56.05 | Jo2 | just missing wifi |
| 11:56.33 | Jo2 | too bad there's no built-in camera |
| 11:56.59 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (i=Mac@p57A2B2B9.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 11:57.08 | Morgreet | Jo2: no no, the controller must be hidden in a security platform. |
| 11:58.06 | Jo2 | Using an ethernet to USB adapter with PoE...... |
| 11:58.16 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R352f.r.pppool.de) |
| 11:58.18 | Morgreet | Jo2: and to extend the idea, one could add additional external sensors communicating their alters via Bluetooth. |
| 11:58.22 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R352f.r.pppool.de) |
| 11:58.30 | Morgreet | s/alters/alerts/ |
| 11:59.28 | Jo2 | gotta test that |
| 11:59.37 | Jo2 | s/gotta/have to/ |
| 11:59.39 | Jo2 | hehe |
| 12:00.07 | Jo2 | never thought of that before |
| 12:01.07 | *** join/#openmoko libervisco (n=libervis@tuxhacker/libervis) |
| 12:01.29 | Morgreet | What about electronic door keys? The GPS detects when you're at your front door, the Bluetooth device address gives a minimal validation to open up a channel to the lock, and then OM uses ssh to do the real secure unlocking operation. |
| 12:02.13 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 12:02.27 | Stephmw | Morgreet: errr |
| 12:02.31 | Stephmw | Morgreet: no thanks :) |
| 12:02.49 | Stephmw | Morgreet: I'd rather not have such an automated door entry |
| 12:02.50 | Morgreet | Stephmw: fair enough ... but why? |
| 12:03.09 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:03.28 | Stephmw | Morgreet: I like the hassle of multiple keys :) |
| 12:03.37 | Jo2 | Better to apply things that are applicable today |
| 12:04.01 | Morgreet | Jo2: this is all trivial today though, hehe |
| 12:04.45 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
| 12:05.23 | Jo2 | Wish they would have put in wifi in the first version |
| 12:06.10 | Morgreet | Jo2: or powered the USB, so that we could attach a tiny wifi dongle. |
| 12:06.13 | Jo2 | would have opened up for so many other options, given it's a mobile device |
| 12:06.42 | Jo2 | Well, the battery is quite weak...would be drained quickly with an external device |
| 12:07.05 | Jo2 | but a USB hub with battery...... |
| 12:08.14 | Morgreet | Well, that's a tradeoff for the user, each person can decide if they want the power drain or not. Could be useful even just for a few mins, then switch off. |
| 12:08.56 | Jo2 | true...if the bettery can even support the current required in addition |
| 12:09.08 | Jo2 | s/bettery/battery/ |
| 12:09.14 | Jo2 | :D |
| 12:10.03 | Jo2 | remember, powered USB has certain requirements for power |
| 12:10.17 | Jo2 | might not have been doable |
| 12:11.13 | Morgreet | Oh it's doable, but just requires a bit more circuitry, ie a DC upconverter from 3.6V to 5V |
| 12:11.56 | Jo2 | I mean that a powered USB device is required to maintain the voltage with a given current. The battery may not have enough left after normal operation to support that |
| 12:12.02 | *** part/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-241-221-230.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 12:12.17 | Morgreet | And if the upconverter can be switched off by software, it needn't impact on normal battery life. |
| 12:12.28 | *** join/#openmoko LoneTech (i=yann@h1290a.a-berga.net) |
| 12:13.11 | Jo2 | without hurting itself or exploding hehe |
| 12:13.30 | Morgreet | I hope Neo's battery isn't a Sony ... |
| 12:15.30 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 12:17.23 | Stephmw | GPS+Sony battery... == BOOM |
| 12:17.25 | LoneTech | I'm curious about the agps system. does it operate as a standalone gps receiver at all? |
| 12:20.10 | Morgreet | Agps is done (currently) by a closed-source daemon. The Hammerhead chip itself should give us plain GPS, yes. |
| 12:20.45 | Morgreet | That's the theory, to the best of our knowledge atm. |
| 12:21.40 | LoneTech | thanks |
| 12:23.19 | buz | as for gps power consumption there was some number on the list once |
| 12:23.32 | buz | i think 5mAs for one fix |
| 12:23.33 | koen | 6A |
| 12:23.44 | koen | since you can only do gps with 5 FPGAs |
| 12:23.49 | SpeedEvil | The hammerhead chip gives raw data that needs cooked in the daemon. |
| 12:23.52 | koen | according the the community list |
| 12:24.01 | buz | no problem, you can always power the FPGA with a V12 |
| 12:24.12 | SpeedEvil | I thought it was a pony on a treadmill. |
| 12:24.42 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B0287E.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 12:26.18 | Morgreet | Wow, wifi prices in freefall -- http://www.blueunplugged.com/p.aspx?p=115010&gclid=CM7ll9SWkooCFTpYMAodqjthkA |
| 12:27.12 | *** part/#openmoko Eblis (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
| 12:27.36 | Morgreet | Can Linux handle USB wifi dongles like that one? Or is there the driver issue, just like with raw wifi chipsets? |
| 12:27.46 | buz | Morgreet: depends on the chipset |
| 12:27.51 | buz | ralink ones work fine i'm told |
| 12:28.01 | SpeedEvil | Some vendors ship linux source drivers. |
| 12:28.02 | Morgreet | tnx |
| 12:28.05 | SpeedEvil | Zydas, for example. |
| 12:28.28 | SpeedEvil | The only binary is the blob that gets loaded into the chipset RAM. |
| 12:29.19 | Morgreet | K, well that's not a problem as long as the blob is redistributable. That seems to vary. |
| 12:29.28 | LoneTech | same thing with Ralink, who iirc were more cooperative about gpl drivers |
| 12:30.10 | Morgreet | So couldn't a Zydas wifi device been included in Neo, if it has open-source drivers? |
| 12:30.15 | SpeedEvil | The blob was redistributable. |
| 12:30.22 | SpeedEvil | Maybe power issues. I dunno. |
| 12:30.29 | SpeedEvil | It's certainly pretty small. |
| 12:30.50 | LoneTech | most likely time constraints on design and shipping have a bigger effect |
| 12:30.50 | SpeedEvil | One of the smallest USB dongles I've seen. |
| 12:31.34 | LoneTech | also, I must note that the zydas dongle I've used was extremely power hungry. |
| 12:31.48 | buz | thats the reason why it wasnt integrated then |
| 12:32.05 | buz | when is olpc supposed to ship? is their driver done? |
| 12:32.07 | LoneTech | probably improved since |
| 12:32.45 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg.demon.co.uk) |
| 12:33.16 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
| 12:33.28 | buz | typical current consumption: 150mA (idle), 200mA (sending) |
| 12:33.33 | Morgreet | buz: good point. I bet a lot of projects will go for that when the driver is done. |
| 12:33.59 | LoneTech | that one uses a marvell based solution.. would be interesting to find out more about it |
| 12:34.03 | fluffs | buz: very probably the design has been finished before htey could make any changed |
| 12:34.15 | fluffs | hardware spins are expensive |
| 12:34.18 | buz | yes |
| 12:34.25 | buz | then again, the design wasnt set in stone until january |
| 12:34.32 | buz | bluetooth was there but they didnt know if it actually worked |
| 12:34.34 | LoneTech | http://www.marvell.com/press/pressNewsDisplay.do?releaseID=479 |
| 12:34.58 | Morgreet | Oh, and the reason why OLPC wanted that device because the onboard micro could work standalone with the laptop off, to preserve grid comms. That would suit a Neo2 very nicely too! |
| 12:35.14 | buz | seems over the top for a phone |
| 12:35.21 | SpeedEvil | AIUI, the driver is binary. |
| 12:35.28 | fluffs | LoneTech: marvell are bloody difficult even if you are buying large quantites of parts... |
| 12:35.29 | Morgreet | Nothing is over the top .... ever! Rule 1 of geekdom :P |
| 12:35.32 | buz | SpeedEvil: olpc is developping an OSS one i thin |
| 12:35.48 | fluffs | most of the peopple i know who do pxa designs are now looking for other chips... |
| 12:35.49 | LoneTech | http://www.laptop.org/laptop/hardware/specs.shtml |
| 12:35.57 | buz | as for TCP IP offloading, I don't care much for that |
| 12:36.05 | SpeedEvil | Wake on wifi might be nice. |
| 12:36.18 | buz | wake on wifi might suck a lot of juice |
| 12:36.20 | SpeedEvil | but AIUI, it's not really low power. |
| 12:36.24 | LoneTech | afaict it doesn't end up being offloading so much as they've put an entire system in there. |
| 12:36.36 | SpeedEvil | At least 100mW, so what's that... |
| 12:36.51 | SpeedEvil | 36 hours for that alone - or so. |
| 12:36.56 | buz | Wireless: Marvell Libertas 88W8388+88W8015, 802.11b/g compatible; dual adjustable, rotating coaxial antennas; supports diversity reception |
| 12:37.09 | ynezz | it have some kind of rewritable memory inside? in case there's a bug in tcp/ip stack... |
| 12:37.16 | Morgreet | I don't have a feel for the actual size of the Neo. 'Think I'll make a cardboard cutout. |
| 12:37.17 | buz | ynezz: most likely |
| 12:37.23 | SpeedEvil | AIUI it has a loadable blob. |
| 12:37.24 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 12:37.28 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 12:37.30 | lrg | fluffs: audio stuff almost in alsa-kernel. a few minor things to sort out |
| 12:38.21 | ynezz | i wonder how one can review what's doing with tcp/ip inside :) |
| 12:38.23 | buz | if only i could buy an OLPC |
| 12:38.25 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 12:38.30 | buz | i'd plae a few of them around the flat |
| 12:39.41 | Morgreet | ynezz: same as with any Unix-type box. It's all open and visible, you can monitor your networking traffic. |
| 12:41.01 | SpeedEvil | Though 802.11 can be a little bit harder than ordinary stuff. |
| 12:41.10 | SpeedEvil | Especially if you're interested in the diversity |
| 12:41.42 | fluffs | lrg: i saw, thanks |
| 12:42.09 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 12:42.30 | lrg | fluffs: I just need to ask Graeme to check his warnings next time ;) |
| 12:42.34 | fluffs | lrg: i shall look at upgrading our next vendor patch once 2.6.20 is out |
| 12:42.45 | lrg | fluffs: cool |
| 12:42.48 | fluffs | lrg: warnings are bad, mmmkay |
| 12:42.57 | koen | hey lrg |
| 12:43.00 | lrg | hey koen |
| 12:43.55 | lrg | koen: are you bringing nbp to fosdem ? |
| 12:44.22 | Morgreet | Is there a date for 2.6.20 non-rc release yet? |
| 12:44.34 | fluffs | lrg: i've got a driver for the tlv320aic33 now, but for alsa not asoc |
| 12:44.42 | koen | lrg: once I find time to revive it |
| 12:44.58 | koen | lrg: atm I'm pissed off no-one can give me the kernel build tools |
| 12:45.06 | SpeedEvil | Does the sound chip just stream it to the CPU? |
| 12:45.11 | SpeedEvil | Or is there any buggering? |
| 12:45.12 | SpeedEvil | err |
| 12:45.14 | SpeedEvil | buffering |
| 12:45.19 | koen | and very pissed of at those simtec dweeps not responding to mails |
| 12:45.19 | Morgreet | lol |
| 12:46.40 | koen | maybe with the main person ignoring those mails in this channel I can finally get an answer |
| 12:47.16 | koen | It irritates me I can't contract a kernel hacker to do the port because the tools build a kernel images are 'secret' |
| 12:48.07 | fluffs | koen: really, i just don't have the time to do anythign about it |
| 12:48.40 | lrg | fluffs: can you see my pm. I wonder if I'm registered atm |
| 12:48.52 | fluffs | lrg: yez |
| 12:49.02 | lrg | fluffs: cool :) |
| 12:49.15 | lrg | I though I wasn't regisered |
| 12:50.02 | SpeedEvil | Matching font on the headings to the logo |
| 12:50.04 | SpeedEvil | oosp |
| 12:50.56 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@81.193.135.96) |
| 12:52.12 | fluffs | koen: i have no idea what legality about releasing the nbp stuff... and we haven't had the time to do any investigation |
| 13:18.35 | *** part/#openmoko LoneTech (i=yann@h1290a.a-berga.net) |
| 13:20.41 | *** join/#openmoko incinerator (n=sabine@82-41-24-164.cable.ubr04.edin.blueyonder.co.uk) |
| 13:22.18 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 13:25.05 | *** join/#openmoko Zer0Her0_ (n=Z@17.232.17.195) |
| 13:30.18 | *** join/#openmoko BioGeek (n=jeroen@d54C53EBE.access.telenet.be) |
| 13:44.46 | *** join/#openmoko srikantux (n=sri@59.92.140.31) |
| 13:58.46 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84.122.65.39) |
| 14:00.57 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 14:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko Psi_ (n=benw@203.152.97.213) |
| 14:04.40 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookFozis (n=sajt@dsl54007EDE.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 14:25.33 | *** join/#openmoko Sum1 (n=Sum1@80.175.142.81) |
| 14:28.24 | *** part/#openmoko Jo2 (n=Joe@217-170-144.541110.adsl.tele2.no) |
| 14:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
| 14:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko faded515 (n=faded515@cpc3-hatf4-0-0-cust764.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 14:49.09 | *** join/#openmoko silwol (n=silwol@193.170.68.74) |
| 14:51.45 | koljoman | is it planned to be intergrated with camera |
| 14:52.18 | noidd | in v2 |
| 14:52.27 | noidd | maybe |
| 14:52.28 | noidd | not in v1 |
| 14:52.48 | koljoman | do u know why not v1 |
| 14:53.01 | koljoman | coz all modern phones have one |
| 14:54.11 | koen | no camera there |
| 14:54.29 | koen | lots of goverments don't allow cameraphone in their offices |
| 14:55.21 | koljoman | it is true and for big companies too, but i have never heard of someone not let in the office coz of his phone |
| 14:55.32 | noidd | I have |
| 14:55.51 | noidd | in fact, I know one company that doesn't even allow cellphones in the building |
| 14:57.05 | koljoman | yes, may be in some research areas, like BMW factory for engineers |
| 14:57.53 | koen | they don't dissallow people because of their phones |
| 14:58.04 | koen | they just have them leave the phone at the security desk |
| 15:00.02 | Stephmw | a number of camera-less mobiles are due out this year |
| 15:00.20 | Stephmw | specially for those markets |
| 15:01.12 | fluffs | ls |
| 15:02.20 | Bipolar | fluffs: you need to set your WM to "Focus follows eyes" :) |
| 15:02.45 | koen | and I object to the use of the word 'camera' in cameraphones :) |
| 15:05.38 | Morgreet | The more integrated peripherals the better. I'd guess that there's no camera in v1 simply because they wanted to avoid the cost. |
| 15:06.08 | Bipolar | camera phones suck |
| 15:06.14 | Eblis | i agree with koen |
| 15:06.32 | Bipolar | rather... the 'cameras' in camera phones suck |
| 15:07.34 | Morgreet | It's just a peripheral. Sure, they suck as cameras. So use it as a scanner, or whatever. It's just optical input :-) |
| 15:07.36 | koen | the lack of a proper lens and too much signal amplication makes them suck |
| 15:08.10 | Sketch | and no (real) flash |
| 15:08.22 | koen | http://linuxdevices.com/news/NS2797442785.html |
| 15:08.33 | Eblis | i'd rather have something else in the phone instead of the camera |
| 15:08.40 | Sketch | the one in my phone actually takes decent pictures as long as you take them outdoors in bright sunlight |
| 15:09.22 | Sketch | which is not where i spend most of my time... |
| 15:14.30 | koljoman | with or without camera, it is really personal, and I am sure a lot of people would like one with cam, nevertheless cam is not with high quality |
| 15:29.10 | l3010o | i thk if neo has a camera, more ppl will buy it, yet the quality is a bit low |
| 15:29.27 | l3010o | coz many of the users like to take pics but do not care with the quality |
| 15:30.21 | noidd | I view cameras in the same way I view guns. |
| 15:30.59 | maydaytx | down the end of a barrel? |
| 15:31.02 | noidd | A small calibre gun you have on you at all times is better than the hand-cannon you left in your car. |
| 15:31.06 | Sketch | cameras don't kill people, people kill people? |
| 15:31.25 | SpeedEvil | There are _so_ many uses. |
| 15:31.31 | noidd | ditto cameras. The crappy camera that's always with you because its in your phone is better than the DSLR you leave in the car. |
| 15:31.56 | Sketch | it would be nice if it was a little less crappy |
| 15:31.58 | noidd | When I know i'm going to take pictures, I'll bring the DSLR |
| 15:32.11 | noidd | otherwise, I just take random shit. |
| 15:32.13 | noidd | :-) |
| 15:32.14 | SpeedEvil | For example, if I had my neo v2 phone with camera with me yesterday, I would have taken a photo of the price label on some stuff in the shop I was in yesterday, rather than trying to remember. |
| 15:32.16 | Sketch | i can carry around a compact camera that is the same size of my phone which is 100x0 better |
| 15:32.20 | madwoota | shitty vga cameras can piss off |
| 15:32.23 | noidd | I am a huge user of MMS |
| 15:32.35 | SpeedEvil | Rather than forgetting it. |
| 15:32.37 | Sketch | er, 1000x |
| 15:32.44 | noidd | SE: I do that too! I take photos of the pricetags which also show the model numbers |
| 15:32.54 | Stephmw | noidd: I'd be a bigger one if most of my contact's phones supported it :) |
| 15:32.58 | noidd | then I can go home and do research |
| 15:33.04 | madwoota | heh |
| 15:33.10 | madwoota | so i'm not the only one that does that |
| 15:33.12 | SpeedEvil | Also, in some stores, where they don't have barcodes reliably stuck to everything, you can take a picture of the stock label. |
| 15:33.20 | SpeedEvil | And then simply read it off at the till. |
| 15:33.22 | Sketch | that's a good idea, i'll have to remember that one |
| 15:33.42 | madwoota | i always feel like ubergeek takin pics of stuff in a store and walking out tho :P |
| 15:33.47 | noidd | My wife and I randomly send MMS pictures to each other through the day. |
| 15:34.05 | noidd | she usually sends my cat pictures |
| 15:34.13 | noidd | I usually send her food pictures |
| 15:34.17 | noidd | like, constantly |
| 15:34.55 | l3010o | counter |
| 15:34.56 | aloril | a week, a day 14:25:04 (8.601 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.601 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.601 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 15:35.40 | NAiL | a month :-( |
| 15:36.04 | SpeedEvil | It's only one with 28 days though. |
| 15:37.14 | buz | so with the revolver you randomly shoot people and with the shotgun you decide first on whom you're gonna shot... |
| 15:37.25 | buz | i rather don't wanna meet you then ;) |
| 15:37.59 | noidd | just because I believe is personal gun ownership doesn't mean I'm going to hunt you down :-P |
| 15:38.33 | buz | well you said you treat cameras like guns ;) |
| 15:38.45 | noidd | ah... |
| 15:38.50 | l3010o | it's useful when the dslr isnt in my hand to shoot ppl and thgs:p |
| 15:38.55 | *** join/#openmoko apokryphos (n=francis@unaffiliated/apokryphos) |
| 15:38.56 | noidd | only insomuch as integration |
| 15:39.13 | noidd | haha, request for functionality in neov2. .45 cal derringer - 2 shot |
| 15:39.14 | noidd | :-D |
| 15:39.34 | buz | i'm pro gun within limits |
| 15:40.05 | noidd | so are most people. The issue there is the word "limits" |
| 15:40.13 | noidd | I'm sure those vary between you and me :-) |
| 15:40.18 | buz | well the rabid ones dont have any |
| 15:40.41 | buz | and the other side has ONLY limits |
| 15:40.41 | noidd | I probably qualify for rabid in your book :-) |
| 15:40.56 | buz | then again i dont even own one |
| 15:41.27 | noidd | its nice and relaxing |
| 15:41.47 | buz | to me it would be more trouble than relaxin |
| 15:41.53 | noidd | sniping is more relaxing that any of that far east meditiation stuff |
| 15:42.22 | noidd | if that's how it is to you then I won't encorage you to try it |
| 15:42.27 | noidd | but I really enjoy it |
| 15:42.31 | buz | oh i've shot some guns |
| 15:42.35 | buz | even uzis |
| 15:42.46 | noidd | having to slow your breathing and heart rate down and hone those fine motor skills |
| 15:42.49 | buz | but paintball is much more enjoyable |
| 15:43.08 | noidd | See, I hate paintball :-) |
| 15:43.29 | noidd | this little detail called not getting hurt :-P |
| 15:43.47 | buz | that largely depends on your gun and how much pressure you use |
| 15:43.55 | buz | high pressure guns can hurt quite a bi |
| 15:44.03 | noidd | Well, I'm more worried about other peoples paintball guns |
| 15:44.03 | *** part/#openmoko apokryphos (n=francis@unaffiliated/apokryphos) |
| 15:44.22 | buz | well obviously, you don't shoot yourself ;) |
| 15:44.31 | noidd | one would hope not |
| 15:45.06 | noidd | although a friend of mine who was an (incompetant) police officer succeeded in shooting himself |
| 15:45.10 | noidd | accidentally. |
| 15:45.39 | noidd | he was actually in a firefight so he gets some relief from torment :-) |
| 15:45.49 | noidd | but he fired on a suspect several times |
| 15:46.01 | *** join/#openmoko PeteSkeet (n=pedrona@cpc3-nfds1-0-0-cust79.lei3.cable.ntl.com) |
| 15:46.02 | noidd | and re-holstered his weapon with his finger in the trigger guard |
| 15:46.14 | noidd | pushing down of course he pulled the trigger |
| 15:46.23 | noidd | and blew a nice hole in his leg |
| 15:46.29 | noidd | haha, that was funny |
| 15:46.32 | noidd | I need that video ;-D |
| 15:47.23 | noidd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rqEFdb9ioM0 |
| 15:47.25 | noidd | :-D |
| 15:47.27 | noidd | funny as hell |
| 15:48.00 | buz | i read somewhere that police shoots more innocent bystanders than subjects |
| 15:51.40 | *** join/#openmoko gambler (n=orion@203-206-86-98.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 15:52.34 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@dsl51B66455.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:53.19 | noidd | perfect example here: |
| 15:53.20 | noidd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o9HWPkgYAY |
| 15:57.16 | *** join/#openmoko disguy__147 (i=ariel@gateway/tor/x-1fb97d6ee8773ad1) |
| 15:59.46 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668517.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 16:01.21 | Morgreet | Well the real question about having a 2-shot .45 cal derringer integrated in Neo2 is ... will the host SoC be able to program it? ;-) |
| 16:01.28 | *** join/#openmoko pH5 (n=ph5@e178212013.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 16:02.48 | *** join/#openmoko Marex_ (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 16:07.44 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg.demon.co.uk) |
| 16:08.24 | *** join/#openmoko cyberix (n=cyberix@hoas-fe17dd00-69.dhcp.inet.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:08.51 | *** join/#openmoko cprf (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:09.49 | *** join/#openmoko marcususesthis (n=marcus@195.159.95.163) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:09.55 | *** join/#openmoko Paavo (i=jplauril@a88-113-2-185.elisa-laajakaista.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:10.20 | *** join/#openmoko maydaytx (i=johndoe@cpe-67-9-70-44.hot.res.rr.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:10.37 | *** join/#openmoko philippe (n=fille@a91-153-17-113.elisa-laajakaista.fi) |
| 16:11.27 | *** join/#openmoko cpfr (n=fourier@nat01-mccormick-ext.Rutgers.EDU) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:12.16 | noidd | heh |
| 16:13.08 | *** join/#openmoko Agrajag- (n=filip@c211-30-4-5.artrmn1.nsw.optusnet.com.au) |
| 16:13.18 | *** join/#openmoko hrw|gone (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:15.11 | *** join/#openmoko Morgreet (n=morgaine@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust961.lutn.cable.ntl.com) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:17.06 | *** join/#openmoko rejon (n=rejon@c-24-23-175-209.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:17.14 | *** join/#openmoko hadara (i=hadara@2001:7d0:0:1:2d0:b7ff:feb7:f667) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:18.01 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 16:18.15 | *** join/#openmoko sjoerd (n=sjoerd@tunnel3460.ipv6.xs4all.nl) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 16:20.26 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-41-253-49.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 16:35.45 | koen | splitnode |
| 16:40.50 | Morgreet | Yeah |
| 16:41.40 | Morgreet | Is there a release date for .20, or still more rc's to come? |
| 16:42.35 | fluffs | i'd expect this is the last rc |
| 16:43.26 | Morgreet | Looking forward to it. There's quite a bit of realtime goodness for musician's reqs in it they say. |
| 16:45.37 | Morgreet | Hmmm, I wonder whether it'll be feasible to use the Neo touchscreen as a MIDI trigger pad. Just wonder how robust it would be to repeated tapping. |
| 16:46.05 | SpeedEvil | Tapping should not be bad. |
| 16:46.14 | SpeedEvil | As long as it's with a finger. |
| 16:46.26 | SpeedEvil | Don't use drumsticks :) |
| 16:46.31 | Morgreet | Hehehe |
| 16:46.37 | Morgreet | Indeed, no polyphony. |
| 16:47.14 | Morgreet | Conversion time is easily fast enough, just 50us apparently. But slow SoC, can't give it much synthesis work. |
| 16:47.59 | SpeedEvil | Well - it's fine for playing canned samples. |
| 16:49.26 | Morgreet | Yeah, just no reverb or chorus, should be fine. |
| 16:50.07 | Morgreet | Not a serious instrument anyway, just for passing the time on trips. |
| 16:51.46 | Morgreet | But could be a useful control surface, just needs to send out MIDI traffic over Bluetooth. Could have all kinds of binary, linear, or 2D controllers. |
| 16:51.48 | SpeedEvil | You can can reverb easily. |
| 16:51.56 | SpeedEvil | As it's got plenty storage. |
| 16:52.16 | Morgreet | Yeah, but takes CPU, same for chorus. |
| 16:52.32 | SpeedEvil | Mixing samples together is cheap. |
| 16:52.52 | SpeedEvil | And if you store a reverbed version of the sample, then it's not bad at all. |
| 16:54.02 | SpeedEvil | IMO, inspect carefully, and megger it. |
| 16:54.03 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 16:55.09 | Morgreet | Long time since I heard of meggers, hehe. |
| 16:55.20 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 16:56.45 | Morgreet | The sign segment has gone on my Fluke ... have to hold it near horizontal to sign if it's pos or neg. |
| 16:56.54 | Morgreet | to see* |
| 16:57.17 | SpeedEvil | You can try opening it up and cleaning the zebra strip. |
| 16:57.21 | SpeedEvil | That can work well. |
| 16:57.36 | Morgreet | Might as well, nothing to be lost. |
| 16:57.45 | SpeedEvil | Or ebay even. |
| 16:58.05 | noidd | aye |
| 16:58.32 | Morgreet | Well, most of the time I know what the sign is anyway, if I know what I'm doing, so I manage. |
| 17:09.52 | *** join/#openmoko DukeOfURL (n=chatzill@vc7-1-39.dsl.netrack.net) |
| 17:12.48 | mjr | excellent news on the list; the Neo1973 hardware can do full-screen QVGA also |
| 17:13.23 | mjr | so playing back decent portable video just got a bit easier, though of course things on that front are still iffy |
| 17:14.52 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 17:15.14 | buz | is there any brightness rating for the screen? |
| 17:15.24 | SpeedEvil | That's just nitpicking. |
| 17:15.59 | SpeedEvil | (nits are a measure of brightness) |
| 17:16.08 | buz | only at samsung it appears |
| 17:16.43 | mjr | (the software support for the QVGA mode isn't yet there but LaF0rge said he can provide switching code at least after phase-1) |
| 17:16.43 | buz | but the soc not being able to rotate the screen sucks |
| 17:17.13 | mjr | that would be useful, but I'm fully prepared to re-encode for the Neo anyway, so I can rotate the video files themselves |
| 17:17.26 | mjr | (if a rotating player would suffer some performance penalty) |
| 17:17.27 | buz | video, sure |
| 17:17.30 | buz | but other apps? |
| 17:17.42 | mjr | yeah, that |
| 17:18.16 | pH5 | buz: that's not a problem. as it's a frame buffer device, kdrive can rotate in software just fine. |
| 17:18.16 | mjr | for some things you could perhaps settle for software rotation in the x server (not implemented), but it would be a drain |
| 17:18.29 | mjr | oh, was it implemented? |
| 17:18.31 | mjr | ah well :] |
| 17:18.34 | pH5 | xrandr |
| 17:18.38 | Morgreet | If the display is memory-mapped, get the MMU to trap and remap accesses. :-))) [Joking, it would slow it down.] |
| 17:19.05 | mjr | pH5, yeah, as long as kdrive has the support |
| 17:19.36 | pH5 | mjr: it has :) |
| 17:21.33 | mjr | good for it |
| 17:23.17 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 17:24.01 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - rotation is prety much mandatory for ebooks/... |
| 17:27.18 | Morgreet | I was really tempted by those E-Ink readers that came out last year, Sony's and the Iliad. But Sony's price was outrageous, and didn't have money for the Iliad (more expensive, but loaded with features). |
| 17:28.03 | Morgreet | I see a lot of future for ebooks and similar, even though the pundits reckon not. |
| 17:28.34 | SpeedEvil | I was trying to get samples of the e-ink film. |
| 17:28.58 | SpeedEvil | For a pull-out reader, where the film is stored in the body, and you pull it out to 'print' on the film. |
| 17:29.20 | SpeedEvil | They won't play though. |
| 17:29.24 | *** join/#openmoko friede1 (n=fwolff@dsl-241-221-230.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 17:30.52 | Morgreet | If it wasn't strictly licensed, I bet E-Ink devices would be all around us by now. Progress is being held back everywhere by crummy commercial interests. |
| 17:32.28 | Morgreet | Pretty much why the great Sony of yesteryear is no more. They used to manufacture great hardware. Now they mainly manufacture lawyerese. |
| 17:32.57 | koen | Morgreet: the iliad is OE powered as well :) |
| 17:35.04 | SpeedEvil | Basically - an electrostatic printer - sort-of in a line along the device, which prints the display when you unroll it. |
| 17:37.14 | Morgreet | koen: !!!! I didn't know that! Super! |
| 17:37.46 | koen | Morgreet: they do still have a problem with GPL compliance |
| 17:37.55 | koen | I hope they resolve that soon |
| 17:37.57 | Morgreet | koen: aha |
| 17:38.17 | koen | crap, I forgot to drink beer with the irex dudes last week |
| 17:38.35 | Morgreet | That was the company, yeah, irex |
| 17:40.38 | fluffs | hmm, how do i tell grep to match X, and not X_something |
| 17:40.50 | Morgreet | That E-Ink film is lovely, can be 3D-"printed" out in arbitrary sizes in principle, so the cost could be negligible, in principle. Unfortunately ... licensing means it'll stay extortionate, until some competitor makes one based on a different principle. Patents suck rocks. |
| 17:41.21 | *** part/#openmoko friede1 (n=fwolff@dsl-241-221-230.telkomadsl.co.za) |
| 17:41.26 | Morgreet | grep 'X$' if your X is at end of line |
| 17:41.34 | *** join/#openmoko andres (n=andres@200.63.231.116) |
| 17:41.36 | andres | hello |
| 17:41.49 | Morgreet | If it's not at end of line, then specify the char it's NOT as a delimeter |
| 17:42.03 | fluffs | that might just work |
| 17:42.17 | Morgreet | Eg. grep 'X[^z]' ... if it's not 'z' |
| 17:42.41 | fr500 | will openmoko work on other phones and embedded devices? |
| 17:43.13 | Morgreet | In theory, yes. It's being designed to be generic. |
| 17:43.15 | mjr | fr500, not at the start, but it's an open platform, so others can use it on their hardware if they will |
| 17:43.26 | fr500 | cool |
| 17:43.30 | mjr | (or third parties may port it to others' hardware) |
| 17:43.39 | fr500 | mjr, so far only the neo1973 are targetted right? |
| 17:43.59 | mjr | yes |
| 17:44.19 | *** join/#openmoko bitstorm2 (n=root@ppp-70-243-80-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 17:45.20 | Morgreet | fr500: a lead developer of OpenMoko is also heading the OpenEZX project, so you can expect it to work with Motorola phones pretty soon after. |
| 17:45.50 | fr500 | the only thing i don't understand right is the wifi support thingy |
| 17:46.02 | fr500 | is it a driver or a hardware issue? |
| 17:46.06 | Morgreet | fr500: easy: there is none in v1 |
| 17:46.52 | so_solid_moo | there's no hardware because they didn't think they could solve the driver issue |
| 17:48.20 | fluffs | Morgreet: thanks, just realises that since it was a makefile it handly had $(X) |
| 17:49.20 | Morgreet | It's an openness issue. The phone is designed as an open phone, and wifi couldn't be included because no open drivers were available for any wifi chipset. If the phone isn't open, it has no reason to exist. :-) hence, no wifi. |
| 17:52.14 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@213.23.202.22) |
| 17:52.30 | Morgreet | That said, I'm still wondering why a closed wifi module wasn't given a wee microcontroller of its own with internal driver and placed behind a UART barrier. Then we could have wifi without openness issues. |
| 17:52.39 | mjr | hehe |
| 17:52.43 | Morgreet | Just like with GSM. |
| 17:52.56 | mjr | price, price, price |
| 17:53.05 | Morgreet | Yeah, think you';re right. |
| 17:53.27 | mjr | (and devel time) |
| 17:54.08 | *** join/#openmoko giggls (i=anonymou@e180086222.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 17:54.12 | Morgreet | But remember that you can get a wifi USB dongle for UKP 8.50 ... so "price" is not an answer that I'll accept without further investigation. |
| 17:54.32 | mjr | how about the "devel time" bit? :] |
| 17:54.41 | Morgreet | Yeah, there is that :-) |
| 17:54.55 | mjr | wifi chips just are a bit of a pain still with linux |
| 17:55.23 | mjr | maybe that marvell chip they have in the olpc laptop will prove useful in future models, or something else |
| 17:55.42 | mjr | (they have a free kernel driver and are developing free firmware replacement) |
| 17:55.48 | Morgreet | I'd love to see that used. It would take us far beyond normal wifi operation. |
| 17:56.22 | mjr | yeah the mesh network thingy |
| 17:56.30 | Morgreet | And OLPC |
| 17:56.37 | Morgreet | And OLPC |
| 17:56.37 | fr500 | but, wouldn't it be possible for a developer to add propieatry drivers for personal use and use wifi with an usb powered hub? |
| 17:56.51 | Morgreet | Sorry, keyboard trouble |
| 17:57.01 | mjr | fr500, it should well be possible to use externally powered usb wifi, yes |
| 17:57.13 | mjr | (though the usb is 1.1, so you won't get top speed, but still) |
| 17:57.22 | *** join/#openmoko giggls (i=sven@irc.fuchsschwanzdomain.de) |
| 17:57.29 | fr500 | mjr, doesn't care that much in a phone i guess |
| 17:57.48 | giggls | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:57.53 | mjr | oooops |
| 17:57.58 | Morgreet | fr500: yes, but if you're going to take powered hubs and separate wifi equipment out with your mobile, you might as well just take your wifi laptop out and be done with. |
| 17:57.59 | giggls | *argl* |
| 17:58.00 | mjr | better change your pass right about now |
| 17:58.00 | Eblis | oooops |
| 17:58.06 | giggls | shure |
| 17:58.57 | fluffs | i admit wifi is the one thing i'm missing, since it would be useful to allow voip when at home / office |
| 17:59.09 | mjr | anyway, buz noted that the new blutooth/wifi disks that seagate announced it's going to be selling are marketed as having open systems inside; for when you really need wifi, it could be fun if one of those could be coaxed to bridge between bt/wifi |
| 17:59.18 | mjr | fluffs, that can be done with bluetooth |
| 17:59.39 | mjr | wifi's major advantage is installed access point base |
| 17:59.57 | maydaytx | //////// |
| 18:00.06 | NAiL | giggls: Nice trick that avoids the nickserv mistake. Use your nickserv pass as a server password. |
| 18:00.07 | mjr | but for home and work, it shouldn't be much of a problem to plug bt dongles on your workstations and connect through that |
| 18:00.09 | Morgreet | And OLPC have the same reqs as cellphone users .... extremely low power. They need it for grid operation and because power means physical cranking/yoyoing in remote locations. We need low power for mobile battery lifetime. It's good for both parties. |
| 18:00.39 | mjr | Morgreet, yeah |
| 18:01.41 | Morgreet | mjr: re Seagate's DAVE ... it'll only be useful if he doesn't get into an argument with HAL ;-) |
| 18:01.59 | NAiL | heh |
| 18:02.10 | NAiL | that's been beaten to death over at slashdot ;) |
| 18:02.33 | SpeedEvil | They'll turn up on eBay soon. |
| 18:02.35 | Morgreet | NAiL: I only recycle old jokes :P |
| 18:02.54 | NAiL | you're enviromentally friendly, in other words |
| 18:03.37 | Morgreet | NAiL: god no. We need all the carbon we can get into the atmosphere. After all, come nanotech, people will need it for nanofacturing their houses. ;-) |
| 18:03.44 | SpeedEvil | Not really. Some old jokes can be buried in landfill, and generate lots of methane. |
| 18:05.02 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@212-139-251-135.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 18:05.38 | buz | thats because the jokes are so old only old farts still make them |
| 18:05.45 | NAiL | hahaha |
| 18:06.06 | *** join/#openmoko danilo-out (n=danilo@147.91.66.183) |
| 18:06.15 | Morgreet | There was a funny stat doing the nanotech rounds a few years ago: the extra CO2 injected by Man into the atmosphere over the last hundred years is enough to build a 6-acre diamondoid mansion for every person on the planet. ;-) |
| 18:07.09 | cbpage | too bad we can't convert it ;) |
| 18:07.24 | NAiL | That's be cubic zirconia, I presume :-P |
| 18:07.37 | maydaytx | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Utility_fog |
| 18:07.38 | Morgreet | Therefore, the obvious thing for engineers to aim for is to solve global warming and the housing shortage simultaneously. :-)))) |
| 18:07.58 | maydaytx | i want me some foglets |
| 18:08.33 | Morgreet | Unfortunately, GW Bush has seen to it that instead of nanomachines we'll be rolling in nanoscale sunscreen instead. |
| 18:08.43 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 18:09.13 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=mauve@212.159.7.165) |
| 18:09.51 | buz | nanoscale titanium oxide must be very good |
| 18:09.54 | buz | for you |
| 18:10.12 | buz | lets wait how long it takes them to figure out it's even more carcinogenic than sun itself |
| 18:10.23 | Morgreet | A bit bland. OK with chilli sauce though. |
| 18:10.46 | maydaytx | well, if the nanobots can cure our cancer, it wont matter :P |
| 18:11.08 | *** join/#openmoko SpeedEvil (n=mauve@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 18:13.25 | buz | the nanobots wont cure it |
| 18:13.29 | buz | they will just hold it at bay |
| 18:13.38 | buz | and need be refreshed every 6 hours |
| 18:13.45 | buz | how else is big pharma gonna make money? |
| 18:13.57 | SpeedEvil | nanotech. |
| 18:14.14 | SpeedEvil | It literally grows on money trees. |
| 18:14.19 | SpeedEvil | With the hologram too. |
| 18:16.10 | Morgreet | Well the ICI's of this world are basically like the RIAA ... why bother with progress, when the old macroscale manufacturing and business model brings us such huge profits ... |
| 18:16.22 | buz | actually, it doesnt really |
| 18:16.33 | buz | manufacturing is not where the margins are at |
| 18:17.13 | buz | just ask some chinese odm why they are trying to get their own brands to market |
| 18:17.25 | Morgreet | buz: the profits are in manufacturing because it's *exclusive*, that's all. Ie. you have to have billions to create the large plants for volume production. |
| 18:17.42 | buz | thats true for only very few items actually |
| 18:18.00 | Morgreet | It's not the manufacturing per se that's profitable ... just the high volume plants. |
| 18:18.02 | SpeedEvil | processors and RAM is about it. |
| 18:18.08 | SpeedEvil | For the 'really expensive'. |
| 18:18.09 | buz | i might buy it for cars or airplanes |
| 18:18.19 | buz | as for ram, that's a commondity process |
| 18:18.21 | buz | dirt simple really |
| 18:18.30 | SpeedEvil | The plant is really expensive though. |
| 18:18.38 | buz | yes |
| 18:18.42 | buz | but its highly competitive |
| 18:18.46 | SpeedEvil | True. |
| 18:18.48 | buz | not much margins usually |
| 18:18.54 | buz | now cpus, there i agree |
| 18:19.19 | buz | but still, even there money is coming mostly from owning the IP |
| 18:19.20 | Morgreet | Dirt simple, cheap, small margin .... but you need hugely expensive plants to make it. And that exclusivity is what ensures your profits, because it means you have few competitors. |
| 18:19.39 | buz | by that logic LCD manufacturers should rake in cash |
| 18:19.43 | SpeedEvil | You only really need one or two competitors to really screw things up. |
| 18:19.48 | SpeedEvil | Not dozens. |
| 18:20.05 | buz | lcd industry often runs at A loss |
| 18:20.22 | Morgreet | Whereas nanotech has the *potential* to make everyone a manufacturer, without capital outlay as it's a kitchen-sink tech in principle. And that scares billion-dollar manufacturing peeps shitless. |
| 18:20.23 | buz | just because the plants are so expensie you cant afford to shut them down |
| 18:20.40 | buz | i believe theyd love it |
| 18:20.51 | buz | saves them from all risk in buuilding up capital |
| 18:20.56 | buz | and even higher margins form selling IP |
| 18:21.21 | buz | get prepared for real right management |
| 18:21.49 | Morgreet | If they looked at it widely enough, yes, they'd see the opportunities. But like the RIAA, they don't -- instead they'd rather keep their old business models because it's safe. |
| 18:22.25 | Morgreet | That's why ICI prefers sunscreen to researching molecular nanotech. |
| 18:22.52 | buz | i dont think so |
| 18:23.02 | buz | for the first break thru in nanotech theres huge profits to be made |
| 18:23.12 | buz | thats entirely unlike th RIAA's position |
| 18:23.15 | buz | RIAA can only lose |
| 18:25.33 | Morgreet | Well, it's just a view, but I've been with nanotech since Drexler's EoC came out. The debacles with Smalley and the NNI and all that only make sense to me only by seeing the establishment as heavily weighing towards safe business options. The sunscreen outcome was pretty predictable. |
| 18:26.15 | buz | as for safe, we odnt know if nanotech is safe yet |
| 18:26.27 | Morgreet | No, I mean financially safe. |
| 18:26.27 | buz | not in an environmental view anyway |
| 18:26.47 | buz | well in the the liability is enormous if its not environmentally safe |
| 18:27.06 | buz | us |
| 18:27.12 | Morgreet | There ya go ... "financially safe" again ;-) |
| 18:27.28 | Morgreet | liability is just a business cost |
| 18:29.07 | *** join/#openmoko chrustinho (n=christop@p57B00D7D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:29.57 | Morgreet | As for its actual safety ... nanotech is not just one thing, asking if it's safe is like asking "Are chemical safe?". It's a nonsense question. It'll have to be taken on a case-by-case basis, there is no other possibility. |
| 18:30.08 | buz | thats obviously true |
| 18:33.19 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg.demon.co.uk) |
| 18:34.59 | NAiL | nanotech is kinda like linux. Incredible opportunities. And endless possibilities of shooting oneself in the foot ;-) |
| 18:36.14 | zipola | OpenEmbedded uses the weirdest tools. I've never heard about some of them :) |
| 18:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R352f.r.pppool.de) |
| 18:36.20 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:36.21 | *** part/#openmoko comicinker (n=simeon@R352f.r.pppool.de) |
| 18:36.27 | zipola | And the getting started challenge continues... |
| 18:38.05 | Morgreet | NAiL: I think you got Linux mixed up with some quite about unsafe languages, like C or C++. Linux (and all Unixes) close down the opportunities for shooting yourself in the foot. It's got the hard VM protections for each process, and user+group protections, etc. So that quote didn't apply. |
| 18:38.25 | Morgreet | s/quite/quote/ |
| 18:38.36 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 18:38.44 | NAiL | Morgreet: "rm -rf /" :-P |
| 18:39.41 | Morgreet | rm -rf / does nothing except to your own files .... and if you do that as root, then errrr ... well, try not doing admin when drunk :P |
| 18:39.49 | NAiL | hehe |
| 18:41.02 | fr500 | is the source code for openmoko available now? |
| 18:41.17 | fr500 | can i try the interface on a linux envieronment? |
| 18:41.38 | Eblis | no, it will be available in one week |
| 18:41.48 | Morgreet | fr500: on the 11h. But 99% of the environment is the same as OpenEmbedded. |
| 18:42.02 | zipola | fr500: Check out the links in the channel topic. |
| 18:42.21 | koen | counter |
| 18:42.21 | aloril | a week, a day 11:17:38 (8.471 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.471 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.471 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 18:43.15 | Kero | mm, how to become a (recognized :) developer |
| 18:44.21 | fr500 | and an emulator? |
| 18:44.23 | fr500 | :p |
| 18:44.37 | Morgreet | Kero_: Easy. Develop good stuff :-) |
| 18:44.41 | koen | fr500: Xoo |
| 18:46.31 | Kero | Morgreet: :) but I'll only start doing that once I have the unit. ah, well. perhaps I can do some stuff while exercising patience :D |
| 18:46.39 | fr500 | koen, and is it possible to try it now, or do i have to wait 8.471 days |
| 18:47.47 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-148-178.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 18:48.22 | Morgreet | Kero: indeed. We're all waiting for the official environment to become available on the 11th Feb. From then untill 11th March when dev units are on sale, we'll have to work with the emulator. |
| 18:48.36 | *** join/#openmoko andres_ (n=andres@200.63.231.116) |
| 18:49.18 | Kero | Morgreet: emulator would be cool; since I'm definitely not on the list for feb 11 |
| 18:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko cathal (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 18:53.23 | Kero | 'coz gps + being on-line, gives plenty of opportunity for apps. |
| 18:56.12 | Morgreet | Well for a start, hopefully every Neo owner will run the OpenStreetMap code and help us build street maps for every town. |
| 18:58.30 | Morgreet | I think the intention is to automate the data gathering, so that whenever you enter a street you haven't been on before, it records the path without assistance. |
| 18:59.22 | NAiL | hmm |
| 18:59.58 | Kero | things like that, too. proprietary databases only work until someone makes one for free. |
| 19:00.01 | NAiL | complete with street address and stuff |
| 19:00.10 | Eblis | Morgreet: you're talking about US only cities, right ? |
| 19:00.29 | Morgreet | Eblis: no no, OSM is worldwide |
| 19:00.48 | Kero | NAiL: be careful with intellectual property, then ? |
| 19:01.16 | zipola | Wow, OSM sounds cool. |
| 19:01.32 | zipola | That would also ease travelling abroad etc. |
| 19:01.34 | Morgreet | NAiL: not allowed to use proprietary maps in OSM. Either find maps dating from before 1940, and VERIFY that they're public domain, or use your own GPS. |
| 19:01.58 | NAiL | Morgreet: Well, I could try to get them open ;) |
| 19:02.25 | Morgreet | NAiL: you'll be lucky. :-( But hey, please try, yes. :-) It'll have to be in writing. |
| 19:02.31 | NAiL | of course |
| 19:02.40 | Morgreet | Would be terrific. |
| 19:02.47 | mjr | yeah, if you're in a position to try, go for it |
| 19:03.12 | NAiL | my work is on a database containing (more or less) every single building in norway, with street address and coords. |
| 19:03.26 | SpeedEvil | Have there been any talks with TomTom about a version? |
| 19:03.38 | cjb | NAiL: and who did the mapping for the database? |
| 19:03.46 | Morgreet | Who was our OSM guy? Was it CM? |
| 19:04.11 | NAiL | cjb: That'd be the state. |
| 19:04.28 | NAiL | I know my company sells the info to other companies |
| 19:04.52 | Eblis | can you portions of google maps ? |
| 19:05.03 | mjr | if they sell it, it'd seem a bit of a stretch to get them to release the info to OSM |
| 19:05.04 | SpeedEvil | Google maps are not vectoer. |
| 19:05.07 | SpeedEvil | Vector. |
| 19:05.13 | SpeedEvil | They are just bitmaps. |
| 19:05.23 | SpeedEvil | Which makes routing really really hard. |
| 19:05.25 | Morgreet | And most Google maps are proprietary too. Google just licenses them. |
| 19:05.30 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 19:05.39 | Eblis | aha |
| 19:05.41 | SpeedEvil | There are generous conditions. |
| 19:05.52 | Eblis | so i can forget about seeing my city in the gps :) |
| 19:05.56 | SpeedEvil | But 'download them all and make them freely available' probably isn't there. |
| 19:06.02 | Morgreet | NASA maps are free, but not sure if that's all of them. Mars maps are free ;-)))) |
| 19:06.25 | Eblis | hmm, isn't there a program from nasa that does about the same things as google earth does ? |
| 19:06.35 | SpeedEvil | Personally, I'd not object to paying for maps. |
| 19:06.38 | Morgreet | Yeah, Whorldwind |
| 19:06.39 | Kero | gps says "You are... on Mars!" |
| 19:06.43 | Morgreet | Worldwind |
| 19:06.54 | Morgreet | Kero : hehe |
| 19:06.55 | SpeedEvil | Good maps. |
| 19:07.14 | cjb | Kero: you can interpret it that way if you like, it's not like GPS tells you which planet you're on.. :) |
| 19:07.22 | Eblis | uhh, Worldwind is using .Net ? |
| 19:07.29 | Eblis | good thing i'm trying to port Mono :D |
| 19:07.32 | SpeedEvil | You can in principle pick up earth GPS from mars. |
| 19:07.39 | SpeedEvil | You will need a kilometers wide dish. |
| 19:07.49 | Morgreet | We'll have to program up our GPS daemon to report: "GPS: you are Out To Lunch" |
| 19:08.55 | SpeedEvil | Actually I was wrong. |
| 19:09.00 | SpeedEvil | It's only around 700m. |
| 19:09.19 | *** join/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 19:09.26 | SpeedEvil | Tricky to fold into a handheld though. |
| 19:14.09 | Eblis | can OSM somehow build maps from gps data ? |
| 19:15.56 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 19:17.43 | SpeedEvil | Yes, they take tracks, and you can add street names. |
| 19:17.46 | SpeedEvil | That's the idea. |
| 19:17.53 | Eblis | aha, niiiiiice |
| 19:18.03 | Eblis | maybe i'll have my city on it after all :) |
| 19:18.57 | Eblis | very nice idea |
| 19:19.10 | Eblis | it is certain that OpenMoko will run OSM ? |
| 19:19.16 | SpeedEvil | The problem is that maps have a whole heap of data. |
| 19:19.32 | SpeedEvil | openmoko will basically run any X application. |
| 19:19.53 | SpeedEvil | To varying degrees of usability as there is no keyboard and the 'mouse' is the screen |
| 19:21.22 | Eblis | how about having this in v2 :D ? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ac0E6deG4AU |
| 19:23.06 | koen | that's not actually a touch interface iirc |
| 19:23.31 | SpeedEvil | What we really need is little legs for the phone to run after you if you forget it. |
| 19:25.40 | Eblis | some sort of sound ping for the times you forget where your phone is |
| 19:28.56 | giggls | Eblis: the phone will easily be able to send you an email including a kml file with its current location or anythin simular to this |
| 19:29.07 | Eblis | hehe |
| 19:29.26 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-128-244.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 19:30.10 | Stephmw | although, just to punish you for losing it in the first place, it'll send it using IP/SMS |
| 19:34.18 | wiml | I love it when my phone punishes me |
| 19:40.43 | *** join/#openmoko lrg (n=liam@lrg.demon.co.uk) |
| 19:53.26 | *** join/#openmoko MiniMoose (i=dave@c-24-16-216-41.hsd1.mn.comcast.net) |
| 19:57.28 | DukeOfURL | why not just call the phone and listen for the ring??? |
| 19:57.44 | SpeedEvil | If you're far enough away. |
| 19:58.15 | *** join/#openmoko netx (n=rlange@osiris.darkempire.org) |
| 19:58.25 | koen | or only have 1 phone |
| 19:58.28 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 19:58.30 | SpeedEvil | Payphone. |
| 19:58.54 | SpeedEvil | Or web->sms |
| 19:59.40 | DukeOfURL | Payphone? Whan's the last time you saw a payphone (not at the airport)? |
| 20:00.04 | DukeOfURL | When's |
| 20:00.21 | SpeedEvil | The UK still has a decaying network. |
| 20:00.33 | DukeOfURL | Those red things? |
| 20:00.42 | SpeedEvil | They are no longer actually red. |
| 20:00.48 | SpeedEvil | That design got ditched. |
| 20:01.09 | DukeOfURL | I saw one in the north of Scotland--it was 20 miles from the nearest civilization. |
| 20:01.38 | DukeOfURL | Maybe BT forgot about it |
| 20:06.40 | SpeedEvil | Some of them got listed IIRC |
| 20:06.53 | SpeedEvil | So BT can't change them. |
| 20:07.17 | DukeOfURL | Histerical monument thing? |
| 20:07.31 | DukeOfURL | Historical :=) |
| 20:08.47 | SpeedEvil | Yeah. |
| 20:08.48 | DukeOfURL | SpeedEvil: are you in London? |
| 20:08.52 | SpeedEvil | No. |
| 20:09.11 | SpeedEvil | A listed building is one that has been protected under the listed buildings act IIRC. |
| 20:09.20 | SpeedEvil | It basically means that you can change it in very limited ways. |
| 20:09.34 | DukeOfURL | I lived in London for two years--had a great time. |
| 20:10.19 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 20:10.22 | SpeedEvil | mischan |
| 20:10.23 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-65-39.onocable.ono.com) |
| 20:10.27 | terrex | el pc |
| 20:11.01 | DukeOfURL | As an American, our horizon is about 200 years back. It's quite a shock to go to UK and visit cathedrals build in 1100. |
| 20:11.10 | SpeedEvil | Yep. |
| 20:11.12 | DukeOfURL | built |
| 20:11.30 | DukeOfURL | And then Bath blows my mind. |
| 20:17.28 | leventhal | I'd like to check out Oxford one day |
| 20:19.03 | maydaytx | theres a few structures from the 1600s |
| 20:20.22 | SpeedEvil | I _think_ my house is ~1700. |
| 20:20.32 | cjb | much earlier than that, in Oxford. There are churches from the 1300s. |
| 20:20.55 | maydaytx | im talking about in the US |
| 20:20.57 | SpeedEvil | Though it has fallen down mostly at maybe 1920, and been rebuilt in 1940, and 1980. |
| 20:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko cathal_ (n=cathal@89.100.101.244) |
| 20:24.32 | high-rez | whats the countdown? |
| 20:24.44 | SpeedEvil | countdown? |
| 20:25.05 | high-rez | to the dev release? |
| 20:25.08 | SpeedEvil | cointer |
| 20:25.11 | SpeedEvil | coutnee |
| 20:25.19 | SpeedEvil | bah. |
| 20:25.49 | NAiL | counter |
| 20:25.49 | aloril | a week, a day 09:34:10 (8.399 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.399 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.399 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 20:25.52 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54009E6C.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 20:34.54 | *** join/#openmoko carmen (n=ix@c-24-34-23-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:37.01 | wiml | is there much detailed info on the phone hardware internals yet (beyond the one post to the -announce list)? Or do we just wait for the source code release and try to suss it out from that? |
| 20:38.19 | *** part/#openmoko carmen (n=ix@c-24-34-23-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 20:39.50 | Eblis | there's some info in the unofficial wiki |
| 20:40.04 | Eblis | i don't know if it says anything new or not |
| 20:40.17 | mikesh | hi, do somebody know pocket heroes for pocket pc? |
| 20:40.51 | SpeedEvil | There is little hardware internal info. |
| 20:40.55 | SpeedEvil | counter |
| 20:40.56 | aloril | a week, a day 09:19:04 (8.388 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.388 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.388 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 20:41.25 | SpeedEvil | In around a couple of weeks, the first external batch of devs will have their phones, and will be posting all the tech details. |
| 20:41.27 | *** join/#openmoko wbx (n=wbx@gprs-pool-1-012.eplus-online.de) |
| 20:43.58 | noidd | ~~ |
| 20:45.02 | xkr47 | ^^ |
| 20:45.21 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 20:45.49 | noidd | yeah |
| 20:45.58 | noidd | I hit the keyboard as I picked it up fgrom the floor |
| 20:46.08 | noidd | its 15:45 and I need to think about food |
| 20:46.44 | xkr47 | kebab, pizza, hamburger, sandwich, |
| 20:46.57 | xkr47 | there you go, something to think about :) |
| 20:48.39 | *** part/#openmoko bitstorm2 (n=root@ppp-70-243-80-122.dsl.austtx.swbell.net) |
| 20:50.45 | cpfr | mmm |
| 20:53.48 | noidd | damn you |
| 20:53.50 | noidd | grr |
| 20:53.56 | noidd | now I have to go out and get something |
| 20:57.04 | *** join/#openmoko RevTig (n=Tig@82.153.215.237) |
| 21:06.52 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 21:07.02 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas11-ottawa23-1128668517.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 21:13.42 | *** join/#openmoko BenC__ (n=bcollins@collinsap1.phunnypharm.org) |
| 21:13.50 | *** join/#openmoko FalanOldum (n=yeah@85.101.56.156) |
| 21:14.22 | *** part/#openmoko FalanOldum (n=yeah@85.101.56.156) |
| 21:16.27 | *** join/#openmoko BenC (n=bcollins@debian/developer/bcollins) |
| 21:18.27 | *** join/#openmoko rwhitby (n=rwhitby@nslu2-linux/rwhitby) |
| 21:34.04 | RevTig | in the tradition of IRC has someone put a bot on here with a countdown to the release date? |
| 21:34.25 | koen | counter |
| 21:34.25 | aloril | a week, a day 08:25:34 (8.351 days) for source for *all* developers and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); a month, a week, a day (36.351 days) for anybody (targeting developers) (preorders: not yet) (2007-03-11); 7 months, a week, a day (220.351 days) for mass market (2007-09-11): see topic for more info |
| 21:34.59 | RevTig | jolly good :) the balance of the universe has been restored :) |
| 21:39.39 | RevTig | <fanboy mode on> actually koen, can I just thank you for all the work you have done with OpenZaurus :) Stunning work :) Sadly the battery on my Collie is now knackered and it is getting a bit slow now which is why the Neo interested me so much :) I did see it as huge endorsement though when I saw you were involved with the project as it added credibility to the concept. |
| 21:39.59 | koen | heh |
| 21:40.05 | koen | I did very little work on OZ |
| 21:40.21 | koen | mickey|tv or hrw|gone deserve the credit for that |
| 21:40.39 | RevTig | modest :) but you were very vocal :) |
| 21:40.52 | koen | It is getting very creepy |
| 21:40.58 | RevTig | I main |
| 21:41.01 | RevTig | sl |
| 21:41.03 | RevTig | l |
| 21:41.27 | koen | last week I went out to dinner and someone I didn't know said "I already know who you are, I have a zaurus" |
| 21:41.35 | Stephmw | koen: hahaha |
| 21:41.40 | RevTig | Rockstar!!!! |
| 21:42.06 | wiml | open source is your road to fame!!! |
| 21:42.16 | rwhitby | ~worship koen |
| 21:42.26 | apt | ACTION prostrates himself before koen. "I'm not worthy!" |
| 21:42.34 | cbpage | :) |
| 21:42.35 | koen | ~hail rwhitby |
| 21:42.37 | apt | ACTION bows down to rwhitby and chants, "I'M NOT WORTHY!!" |
| 21:42.41 | Stephmw | ~botsnack |
| 21:42.41 | apt | aw, gee, Stephmw |
| 21:44.51 | *** join/#openmoko koljoman (n=nenni@rb4d109.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:48.35 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 21:49.00 | *** part/#openmoko koljoman (n=nenni@rb4d109.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:49.12 | *** join/#openmoko koljoman (n=nenni@rb4d109.net.upc.cz) |
| 21:53.30 | *** part/#openmoko wiml (n=wiml@underhill.hhhh.org) |
| 21:53.52 | RevTig | Does anyone know if FIC have a register of interest somewhere? |
| 21:54.18 | RevTig | or the initial production run numbers/ |
| 21:55.44 | Stephmw | RevTig: the 1st I think the mailing list and this channel qualifies |
| 21:55.51 | Stephmw | RevTig: no news on the 2nd |
| 21:56.40 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 21:56.45 | RevTig | ta, I just was wondering if I need to be up all night hitting refresh on the website :) |
| 22:03.46 | cbpage | revtig - koen@uberbox:~$ gcc -O11 -o mokoware mokoware.c |
| 22:05.01 | RevTig | arf :) :) |
| 22:12.37 | *** join/#openmoko danilo-out (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 22:13.37 | *** join/#openmoko eikowerk (n=eikonos@S0106001310d36705.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 22:17.28 | *** join/#openmoko maydaytx (n=maydaytx@cpe-67-9-70-44.hot.res.rr.com) |
| 22:19.43 | *** part/#openmoko Eblis (n=loki@86.34.3.192) |
| 22:19.51 | *** join/#openmoko loft306 (n=^_^@tuxhacker/pdpc.supporter.sustaining.loft306) |
| 22:21.02 | *** join/#openmoko eikonos (n=eikonos@S0106001310d36705.gv.shawcable.net) |
| 22:28.09 | *** join/#openmoko Marex (n=Marex@85.132.236.161) |
| 22:29.11 | *** join/#openmoko nirom (n=nirom@bas3-montrealak-1128548725.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 22:29.44 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:38.11 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:41.30 | *** join/#openmoko fabian2_de (n=fabian@p57A3F62D.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:55.00 | zipola | Wow, I got the OpenEmbedded environment running. |
| 22:55.13 | cpfr | is that much of an adventure? |
| 22:57.17 | *** join/#openmoko fabian_ (n=fabian@p57A3B7DA.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 22:57.54 | zipola | Not exactly since the howto is rather good. |
| 22:58.33 | *** join/#openmoko danilos (n=danilo@adsl-233-130.eunet.yu) |
| 23:02.53 | *** join/#openmoko alex_joni (n=juve@emc/board-of-directors/alexjoni) |
| 23:10.23 | *** join/#openmoko zween (n=zween@80-43-57-126.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com) |
| 23:17.30 | *** join/#openmoko Stephmw (n=steph@212.69.51.139) |
| 23:19.19 | *** join/#openmoko cprf_ (n=rzinkov@oss-staff.rutgers.edu) |
| 23:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB6C906.ipt.aol.com) |
| 23:33.21 | *** join/#openmoko PhilKC (i=greece@freenode/staff/about.linux.philkc) |