| 00:10.25 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel_ (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 00:14.14 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_away (n=lemke@Ye2d8.y.pppool.de) |
| 00:39.53 | *** join/#openmoko gw280 (n=george@vm.gwright.org.uk) |
| 00:43.57 | noidd | ~seen hrw |
| 00:44.24 | apt | hrw <n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl> was last seen on IRC in channel #oe, 1h 21m 1s ago, saying: 'cu'. |
| 00:44.37 | *** join/#openmoko emulsion (n=emulsion@cpe-071-065-217-026.nc.res.rr.com) |
| 00:45.58 | *** part/#openmoko mawali (n=root@63.82.2.130) |
| 00:50.26 | noidd | wow, lagtastic |
| 00:50.51 | LoRez | noidd: um. |
| 00:50.51 | noidd | or not |
| 00:52.07 | *** join/#openmoko darmou (n=darmou@203-206-183-196.perm.iinet.net.au) |
| 01:03.03 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Yeb95.y.pppool.de) |
| 01:13.41 | *** join/#openmoko Odin-LAP (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 01:33.23 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-146-89.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 01:52.28 | emulsion | go moko! |
| 01:54.05 | thedaniel_ | fun with bots |
| 01:54.11 | thedaniel_ | example: |
| 01:54.13 | thedaniel_ | will neo have wifi? |
| 01:54.19 | thedaniel_ | dammit apt |
| 01:54.24 | thedaniel_ | ok that failed |
| 01:54.29 | thedaniel_ | apt will neo have wifi? |
| 01:54.30 | apt | RTFM RTFM RTFM |
| 01:54.43 | thedaniel_ | infobot answers those without having its name prefixed :( |
| 01:59.44 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (i=friedrij@c-75-71-138-10.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:04.28 | *** join/#openmoko jaebird (n=jae@53-89.netblk-69-41-89.coolaccess.net) |
| 02:11.20 | *** join/#openmoko l3010o (n=leo@n219079088043.netvigator.com) |
| 02:11.34 | *** join/#openmoko MacNorth (i=friedrij@c-75-71-138-10.hsd1.co.comcast.net) |
| 02:17.16 | *** join/#openmoko greentux_ (n=lemke@Yf408.y.pppool.de) |
| 03:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko tchuladdiass (n=derekp@24.12.232.138) |
| 03:05.24 | rboehme | apt |
| 03:05.49 | *** part/#openmoko tchuladdiass (n=derekp@24.12.232.138) |
| 03:10.27 | *** join/#openmoko tchuladdiass (n=derekp@c-24-12-232-138.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 03:30.26 | darmou | thedaniel_ in a word no I think you are getting mixed up with the iphone |
| 03:43.35 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@65.96.191.108) |
| 03:56.14 | *** join/#openmoko sannes (i=ace@har.sagt.no) |
| 04:15.19 | *** join/#openmoko stryderjzw (n=stryderj@216.232.85.137) |
| 04:19.09 | *** join/#openmoko b_lindei1er (n=bjorn@lindeijer.xs4all.nl) |
| 04:26.37 | aloril | counter |
| 04:26.37 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 17:33:22 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, 0 day for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 04:27.12 | Zer0HiT | cool |
| 04:27.36 | aloril | counter |
| 04:27.36 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 17:32:23 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks, for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 04:28.43 | aloril | counter |
| 04:28.43 | aloril | , 2 weeks, 2 days 17:31:16 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); , 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); , 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 04:29.03 | aloril | counter |
| 04:29.03 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 17:30:57 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 04:29.41 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar_ (n=demitar@c-212-031-191-125.cust.broadway.se) |
| 04:33.17 | Zer0HiT | not so much anymore |
| 04:35.17 | aloril | hehe |
| 04:35.29 | Zer0HiT | ;) |
| 04:36.20 | aloril | hmm http://planet.openmoko.org/ saays shipping is 2007-02-12, but I think source release is still 11 |
| 04:36.25 | aloril | 50 phones it seems |
| 04:36.58 | Zer0HiT | yea 11 is a sunday |
| 04:48.40 | l3010o | openmoko.net is password protected? |
| 04:52.26 | l3010o | it's not related to openmoko? |
| 04:54.56 | l3010o | actually wt's the 2nd generation OpenMoko device |
| 04:55.26 | l3010o | a new phone in the next year? |
| 04:59.17 | aloril | v1 device was announced 2006-11-07 it seems |
| 04:59.38 | aloril | so.. its probably similar thing: announcement about what v2 will contain and some very selected developers getting one |
| 04:59.44 | l3010o | that means openmoko is dev in 1-year cycle? |
| 05:00.06 | aloril | announcement seems to hint that, but we will see if that is actually case |
| 05:00.36 | aloril | one would think that there might be less software work with 2nd gen device |
| 05:01.18 | l3010o | i see, what about FIC? is it a company in US? |
| 05:01.26 | l3010o | coz i dont see any FIC phones in Hong Kong |
| 05:02.14 | aloril | I think FIC is based on Taiwan, big company |
| 05:02.17 | l3010o | they have a taiwan site, but no hong kong's =( |
| 05:02.29 | aloril | (more stuff than just phones) |
| 05:02.57 | l3010o | founded in 1980..wow |
| 05:02.58 | XorA | morning |
| 05:03.19 | l3010o | dont know why there isn't any FICphone in Hong Kong |
| 05:03.23 | aloril | if it gets all things people are drooling for ;-) |
| 05:04.05 | aloril | umm.. it certainly changes it, because I'm going to get one ;-) |
| 05:04.06 | l3010o | haha i hope so |
| 05:04.35 | aloril | funny order of last 2 lines ;-) |
| 05:04.41 | l3010o | it's so boring that everyone uses just a few latest models |
| 05:05.03 | l3010o | :) |
| 05:05.39 | l3010o | i may have the chance to get the phone when i enter the university |
| 05:05.50 | l3010o | dont hv much $$ now |
| 05:06.44 | l3010o | besides, any more pic on neo1973? i can just find the pic on the official site |
| 05:07.16 | *** join/#openmoko Mortimus (n=mortimus@pool-71-250-104-223.nwrknj.east.verizon.net) |
| 05:07.41 | Agrajag- | there's images of it in that youtube video |
| 05:08.33 | Agrajag- | not a fan of the look in that really, looks too much like a toy to me - hoping the ones sold to the public will look a bit better |
| 05:08.37 | l3010o | i cant load the youtube video of sean and the phone |
| 05:08.49 | aloril | l3010o: seen this?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jRvtAAXTIlg |
| 05:09.13 | l3010o | there are still some connection problems in asia |
| 05:09.30 | aloril | ah, ok, I think there was image of completely black version somewhere too |
| 05:09.38 | l3010o | i just cant load that youtube video =( |
| 05:09.51 | l3010o | can u send the clip to me pls? |
| 05:09.52 | Agrajag- | i'll take a screenie, give me a sec |
| 05:10.04 | Agrajag- | ok.. i'll convert it to xvid, give me a minute |
| 05:10.14 | l3010o | Agrajag: thank you :) |
| 05:10.35 | l3010o | i wish the phone would be a more professional one hahaa |
| 05:13.49 | Mortimus | seeing that video makes me want to get openmoko even more |
| 05:19.16 | Agrajag- | http://whatsbeef.net/philip/openmoko.avi (15megs, xvid, sorry my transcoding skills aren't up to scratch today) |
| 05:20.15 | l3010o | Agrajag: cool, downloading the video |
| 05:23.27 | l3010o | thx, watching it, the connection is kinda fast=) |
| 05:26.09 | *** join/#openmoko c (n=ix@c-24-34-23-123.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 05:29.40 | l3010o | woooooow! the one in the video is nice |
| 05:29.59 | l3010o | i thk it's better than the pic on the site |
| 05:30.22 | Mortimus | i think its a lil small but im not holding it sooo i don't know |
| 05:30.43 | l3010o | but it looks thick. cant see it clearly |
| 05:30.47 | Agrajag- | small? i drew the dimensions on a piece of paper and it looked huge compared to my currently phone |
| 05:30.59 | Agrajag- | s/currently/current |
| 05:31.18 | l3010o | it should be more or less the same size of iphone? |
| 05:31.27 | c | yep mm-wise 50% bigger on every direction than latest lg/samsung creditcard phones |
| 05:32.01 | Agrajag- | i think the large screen and excellent resolution sort of make up for it |
| 05:32.12 | l3010o | it looks like a portable game machine :) |
| 05:32.36 | c | waiting for the wifi one. tied into GSM providers is suckage.. |
| 05:32.56 | c | d-link v-click is greenphone right? |
| 05:33.08 | Agrajag- | everwhere you go you have a wifi signal? |
| 05:39.13 | Mortimus | can someone link me to a cell phone provider in Europe i would like to compare them to us monopoly's |
| 05:41.38 | aloril | this lists all GSM providers around world: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml |
| 05:42.17 | l3010o | what's the uses of wifi in phone? connecting to PCs? |
| 05:42.31 | l3010o | or the internet? |
| 05:43.58 | Agrajag- | both.. voip is a big one obviously |
| 05:44.44 | Agrajag- | im not sure how useful web browsers would be without a keyboard |
| 05:49.12 | l3010o | if neo1973 has wifi, it can use voip? |
| 05:49.24 | l3010o | thru a PC? |
| 05:50.07 | aloril | Agrajag-: you can use bluetooth keyboard or maybe there will be some nice way to input using touch screen (not plain qwerty board) |
| 05:50.22 | aloril | like maybe http://www.strout.net/info/ideas/hexinput.html |
| 05:51.11 | Agrajag- | if you're going to carry around a keyboard and browse the web you might as well have a laptop |
| 05:52.12 | aloril | sizeof(bluetooth keyboard + Neo1973) < sizeof(laptop) |
| 05:52.28 | aloril | sizeof(bluetooth keyboard) + sizeof(Neo1973) < sizeof(laptop) |
| 05:53.05 | l3010o | maybe a laser keyboard :) |
| 05:53.07 | Agrajag- | yes but you have a pissy little screen, i don't know about you, but i wouldn't want to be browsing websites on it |
| 05:53.11 | dottedmag | the same, 'sizeof' replaced with 'weight' :) |
| 05:54.47 | *** join/#openmoko mjr (i=mjrauhal@myntti.helsinki.fi) [NETSPLIT VICTIM] |
| 05:54.47 | *** join/#openmoko Shoragan (n=shoragan@datenfreihafen.org) |
| 05:56.39 | aloril | Agrajag-: one idea: http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2007-January/002101.html |
| 05:56.57 | aloril | but probably not feasible in v1 hardware :-( |
| 05:59.24 | Agrajag- | sounds pretty silly to me |
| 06:01.09 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 06:01.34 | aloril | Agrajag-: why? |
| 06:04.54 | Agrajag- | because when you think about the size of the screen and the stuff you're going to be looking at, most of those ideas just don't seem feasible to me when you take into account what you're going to entering text for and what you're trying to look at/read at the same time |
| 06:06.30 | aloril | I think even 1/3 of screen visible might be enough for current context |
| 06:07.12 | aloril | also screen under fingers could be visible (maybe some transparent hints) |
| 06:07.33 | aloril | anyway: hard to say what is possible without experimenting |
| 06:08.06 | aloril | Agrajag-: also you might look at http://www.tengo.net/ too |
| 06:41.01 | *** join/#openmoko JDStone (n=JD@adsl-69-110-128-21.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 06:41.08 | JDStone | when is this device coming out? |
| 06:41.49 | dottedmag | counter |
| 06:41.50 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 15:18:10 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 06:44.09 | CM | aloril: What time are you up in the mornigs? At the comp 5?? |
| 06:44.29 | aloril | CM: 5am - 6am |
| 06:44.48 | CM | I've been getting up at 5 all week to go to work, but it's killing me.. |
| 06:44.58 | XorA | 5am sucks |
| 06:45.04 | *** join/#openmoko The_Veginator (n=The_Vegi@adsl-70-231-229-24.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:45.44 | aloril | I think I sleep roughly 6-8h/night |
| 06:45.53 | CM | 5-6 here, but I know I need more |
| 06:46.27 | *** part/#openmoko The_Veginator (n=The_Vegi@adsl-70-231-229-24.dsl.snfc21.sbcglobal.net) |
| 06:46.27 | aloril | CM: ouch for 5am then |
| 06:46.48 | CM | On saturdays I usually wake up around 11-12 |
| 06:48.45 | JDStone | when is this device coming out? |
| 06:48.54 | JDStone | or is it already available? |
| 06:48.57 | XorA | counter |
| 06:48.58 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 15:11:02 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 06:49.44 | JDStone | oh, sorry |
| 06:49.45 | JDStone | lol |
| 06:49.47 | JDStone | duh |
| 06:49.59 | JDStone | hmm, I'll check back |
| 06:49.59 | JDStone | thanks |
| 06:50.01 | *** part/#openmoko JDStone (n=JD@adsl-69-110-128-21.dsl.irvnca.pacbell.net) |
| 06:50.36 | *** join/#openmoko friedel (n=fwolff@dsl-242-233-175.telkomadsl.co.za) |
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| 07:15.07 | *** join/#openmoko loufoque (n=lofoque@smj33-1-82-233-64-48.fbx.proxad.net) |
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| 08:16.44 | maxamillion | will openmoko come with a web browser and media support? |
| 08:17.18 | loufoque | even if it doesn't, nothing prevents you from installing those on it. |
| 08:18.45 | maxamillion | loufoque: will there be a way to ssh into it? |
| 08:19.23 | XorA | maxamillion: using ssh :-) |
| 08:20.14 | maxamillion | XorA: interface to connect to ... address that would be the destination .... ssh usr@phoneURL |
| 08:20.25 | maxamillion | ? |
| 08:20.38 | maxamillion | i assumed it ran an ssh server |
| 08:20.54 | loufoque | given that it doesn't have wifi nor ethernet ports, it probably won't support "real" ssh. |
| 08:21.22 | maxamillion | and i don't assume it to have a package manager? |
| 08:21.48 | loufoque | it uses dpkg-i |
| 08:22.04 | loufoque | ipkg sorry |
| 08:22.11 | maxamillion | you had me excited |
| 08:22.12 | loufoque | well, dpkg for embedded systems |
| 08:22.21 | maxamillion | w00t |
| 08:22.25 | maxamillion | i <3 debian .. |
| 08:24.00 | XorA | loufoque: whats wrong with usb-ethernet and bluetooth, tcp/ip isnt limited to just ethernet |
| 08:26.54 | *** join/#openmoko Eblis (n=Miranda@82.77.126.134) |
| 08:28.23 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@124.178.209.130) |
| 08:28.24 | maxamillion | XorA: would depend if there was software to support it i would assume |
| 08:29.01 | loufoque | sure, but wouldn't that restrict the usage of the usb port? I would have assumed the usb port to behave like a mass storage device. |
| 08:32.52 | XorA | loufoque: the advantage of linux is you can change your mind |
| 08:36.19 | *** join/#openmoko jessta (n=jessta@203-214-97-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 08:41.17 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@ip-217-18-181-130.static.reverse.dsi.net) |
| 08:42.08 | aloril | loufoque: you can run net over USB and/or bluetooth |
| 08:42.44 | aloril | loufoque: it can act as unpowered usb host too |
| 08:49.32 | *** join/#openmoko TRIsoft (n=mac@p57A2DC4A.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 08:55.51 | *** join/#openmoko vlo (n=valentin@lsa1pc7.epfl.ch) |
| 08:55.54 | dneary | hi |
| 08:56.25 | dneary | Anyone know what the licence is for the OpenMoko SDK? LGPL, or something else? |
| 09:00.50 | XorA | dneary: cominations of LGPL/GPL/BSD |
| 09:01.26 | loufoque | since it's based on GTK+ it's probably mostly LGPL |
| 09:04.14 | mikesh | is it possible use this adapter? |
| 09:04.15 | mikesh | http://www.ramelectronics.net/HTML/usb_ethernet_adapter.html |
| 09:04.41 | mikesh | or it needs powered usb? |
| 09:05.07 | dottedmag | btw, about counter. 02-11 starts at different time in different timezones |
| 09:05.14 | dneary | XorA: Thanks |
| 09:05.56 | dneary | Have you investigated any issues with LGPL aggregation with closed components of the phone (like the GSM stack)? |
| 09:06.08 | Eblis | dottedmag: i assume it's counting at GMT time ? |
| 09:06.44 | dneary | The question's come up for Wengo - we have a GPL softphone which we're investigating porting to GSM - we have already made proof-of-concept wifi/gsm convergence devices |
| 09:06.48 | mjr | there are no aggregation issues with the gsm stack; it's behind an UART, for most software intents and purposes a separate "modem" |
| 09:06.53 | dottedmag | probably. but whether devs count it at UTC too? :) |
| 09:07.31 | XorA | dneary: GSM is hidden behind a serial port |
| 09:08.39 | mjr | the AGPS daemon, again, is apparently a separate userland process (presumably linked to glibc and stuff but that's okay by their license) |
| 09:08.56 | dneary | OK |
| 09:09.23 | dneary | That concords with what we've been thinking - hiding things behind sockets, serial portas |
| 09:09.48 | dneary | ports (gah, fat fingers this morning) and dbus resolves aggregation issues |
| 09:13.06 | loufoque | wouldn't it be better to have an open source GSM stack? |
| 09:13.21 | mikesh | counter |
| 09:13.21 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 12:46:38 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 09:21.37 | aloril | dottedmag: true, I could change timezone, but then release dates are approximates anyway ;-) |
| 09:21.58 | aloril | I guess I could change to GMT from EET though |
| 09:22.21 | aloril | mikesh: yeah, you need (battery) powered usb hub |
| 09:22.31 | Eblis | eet ? where are you from ? :) |
| 09:23.21 | aloril | Finland |
| 09:23.26 | *** join/#openmoko jessta_ (n=jessta@203-214-97-210.dyn.iinet.net.au) |
| 09:29.12 | *** join/#openmoko Odin-MAC (n=sbkhh@s121-302.gardur.hi.is) |
| 09:29.34 | l3010o | a silly question, why there is no admin in this channel? |
| 09:29.46 | Odin-MAC | It's a freenode thing. |
| 09:29.53 | Psi_ | hm.. i see what you all mean about the community discussion, its become too much to read |
| 09:30.11 | *** join/#openmoko hrw|gone (n=hrw@ewi546.ewi.utwente.nl) |
| 09:30.41 | l3010o | so there are working developers of openmoko here now? |
| 09:31.05 | mjr | at least intermittently |
| 09:31.23 | mjr | I don't recall if somebody is on-line right now |
| 09:32.42 | l3010o | they are "normal" users here? |
| 09:32.51 | l3010o | 0 halfops, 0 voices.. |
| 09:32.55 | mjr | loufoque, an open source GSM stack would be a good thing to have, _but_ difficult regulation-wise. You might be able to make it work by tivoization, which would somewhat defeat the purpose. |
| 09:33.03 | aloril | counter |
| 09:33.04 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 14:26:56 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 09:33.16 | aloril | should be UTC now |
| 09:34.02 | mjr | l3010o, yes; it's customary in many freenode channels to not have op powers but for authorized people to merely ask them from chanserv if necessary, btw |
| 09:34.39 | loufoque | mjr: what regulations? |
| 09:34.57 | l3010o | mjr: so who are managing this channel? e.g the topic |
| 09:35.06 | madwoota | everyone, its -t |
| 09:36.18 | mjr | loufoque, any regulations any different countries may have worldwide on how cell-phone network nodes need to be certified |
| 09:36.46 | *** join/#openmoko Morgret (n=morgaine@cpc1-hem13-0-0-cust961.lutn.cable.ntl.com) |
| 09:36.59 | l3010o | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:37.08 | dottedmag | mjr: well, at least here in Russia you just need to use allowed radio frequencies, no other regulations involved. |
| 09:37.38 | Morgret | Wow, what a channel population. That's a good sign :-) |
| 09:40.28 | l3010o | personally i thk the color scheme is a bit weird, grey + orange |
| 09:40.56 | l3010o | but why in the video the phone is white + blue but not silver+black? |
| 09:41.08 | Morgret | It's bound to be skinned. The reviewers should never be given a chance to complain about colour scheme. |
| 09:41.32 | Morgret | And if it's not currently skinned ... let's make it so. |
| 09:42.08 | buz | i wont buy a white phone |
| 09:42.09 | buz | i just wont |
| 09:42.23 | buz | best to give me a totally black one |
| 09:42.33 | buz | like that engineering dummy on some pics |
| 09:42.34 | l3010o | Morgret: do you mean that is not the finalised skin? |
| 09:42.42 | loufoque | mjr: a government that would prevent usage of free software in that case would be silly |
| 09:43.09 | Morgret | l3010o: "finalized" won't be until September I thought, when mom and dad will be introduced to them. |
| 09:43.43 | l3010o | Morgret: not even the shape, color of phone? |
| 09:44.19 | dottedmag | haha. As phone is intended to be fully open, it would be nice to sell non-coloured phone and different inks to dye it :) |
| 09:44.33 | Morgret | Form factor will probably always be the same, but new plastic shells are 2-a-penny. Even third parties could make them, not necessarily FIC |
| 09:44.57 | Morgret | dottedmag: hehe |
| 09:45.10 | *** join/#openmoko vics (n=vics@217.21.35.33) |
| 09:45.11 | l3010o | it would be cool if the phone is skinnable :) |
| 09:45.25 | mjr | loufoque, there are valid reasons to be careful with public spectrum, such as the possibility of people sabotaging reserved cell phone frequencies intentionally or by mistake, however I personally do tend to agree that free software should be allowed on gsm stacks and the like |
| 09:45.56 | Morgret | l3010o: I was talking about the software. But yes, the plastic shell should come with options, or you might lose customers just because of physical colour. |
| 09:46.15 | *** join/#openmoko koen|gprs (n=koen@212.41.157.237) |
| 09:46.30 | XorA | mjr: its got little to do with the government and more to do with the GSM organisation that doesnt allow you to distribute the GSM crypto algorithms in public |
| 09:46.31 | l3010o | Morgret: so both hardware and software is skinable, hehee |
| 09:47.05 | c | how about a wide-band radio transciever with GSM in software. you know, so we can use all that spectrum the FCC has been stealing from us for the past 100 years |
| 09:47.12 | mjr | XorA, yeah, like DVDCA doesn't want decss in public ;] |
| 09:47.21 | XorA | mjr: yup |
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| 09:49.22 | Morgret | Anyone here intending to work on GPS apps for it? We could start by porting GPSdrive, should be easy enough. |
| 09:49.44 | koen|gprs | gpsdrive sucks |
| 09:49.55 | koen|gprs | try updating the no-hildon port of maemo-mapper |
| 09:49.59 | Morgret | koen|gprs: got a better one? |
| 09:50.33 | *** part/#openmoko dotmonkey (n=root@222.79.98.233) |
| 09:52.02 | l3010o | do we need to pay for using GPS? |
| 09:52.10 | Morgret | Nope, it's just a receiver |
| 09:53.25 | l3010o | i would like to help, but i know nearly nth abt it :( |
| 09:55.10 | Morgret | But we'll need public domain maps to go with any GPS application we make. Maybe FIC could buy a proper mapset for the phone, since they've designed in GPS. |
| 09:55.50 | l3010o | in Hong Kong, all the maps are copyrighted |
| 09:56.10 | Morgret | And everywhere else, except those of NASA and some other place :P |
| 09:56.27 | Morgret | Maps of Mars are free :PPPPP |
| 09:56.29 | koen|gprs | in a lot of countries proper maps are still classified as "military inteligence" |
| 09:56.33 | l3010o | there is no open source map? |
| 09:56.55 | Odin-LAP | l3010o: Basically, noo. |
| 09:57.01 | Odin-LAP | -o |
| 09:57.15 | aloril | http://www.openstreetmap.org/ |
| 09:57.59 | Odin-LAP | aloril: A good idea, and a promising project, but it seems to be in the beginning stages... |
| 09:58.41 | aloril | Odin-LAP: maybe Neo1973 phone widely used could change that quickly |
| 09:58.49 | Morgret | So let's add to it. #1 job becomes to port their tracker to the Neo |
| 09:59.04 | so_solid_moo | openstreetmap is very well covered in some places |
| 09:59.22 | so_solid_moo | there are entire towns that have been mapped iirc |
| 09:59.31 | l3010o | but in some places *only* |
| 09:59.31 | Odin-LAP | aloril: Yes, but for the feature to be widely used it needs to be at a fairly good level. Not saying it isn't useful, mind! |
| 10:00.09 | aloril | Odin-LAP: there are 6 months between developer and mass market release ;-) |
| 10:00.50 | Odin-LAP | aloril: A fair point. |
| 10:00.51 | aloril | Odin-LAP: however, if open version is not done in time, there might be extra commercial option at mass market release |
| 10:01.05 | aloril | (based on ML talk) |
| 10:05.11 | dottedmag | Are RSS/Atom readers in the basic SDK developed? |
| 10:05.53 | koen|gprs | lifearea's buildsystem is broken |
| 10:05.54 | dottedmag | s/SDK/OS/ |
| 10:06.23 | koen|gprs | especially when you disable the gecko plugin |
| 10:06.40 | dottedmag | koen|gprs: well, Nokia people fixed it somehow. But they did not contribute fixes back to upstream :( |
| 10:06.53 | koen|gprs | nokia doesn't crosscompile |
| 10:07.15 | koen|gprs | and the maemo rss reader is crap |
| 10:07.27 | dottedmag | koen|gprs: I know, it's a liferea 0.6 heavily patched |
| 10:07.50 | dottedmag | koen|gprs: And I don't like the patches they did :) |
| 10:08.07 | koen|gprs | later all |
| 10:08.09 | Morgret | So make better ones :P |
| 10:08.23 | XorA | dottedmag: nothing stopping you checking out openembedded and giving us a patch for liferea |
| 10:08.25 | dottedmag | Morgret: will do if no other RSS reader is planned |
| 10:08.28 | XorA | dottedmag: Id like it |
| 10:08.28 | dottedmag | XorA: yep |
| 10:09.53 | Morgret | Does anyone have a spec on the resolution of the touch-sensitive overlay on the screen (which is probably not the same as the screen res)? And is someone working on Graphitti or similar? |
| 10:10.19 | XorA | Morgret: no, and there is handwriting recognition in OE |
| 10:11.13 | Morgret | XorA: oh, I didn't know that, excellent. The input res on Neo might be only enough for buttons though, not writing ... we need to know. |
| 10:12.56 | XorA | Morgret: Id say physical size of the screen is the limiter, not the res of the overlay |
| 10:14.15 | Morgret | For handwriting, it's the touch-sensitive overlay res that matters. If the screen were A4 size but only had 1-inch input dot pitch, you couldn't write text :P |
| 10:14.46 | XorA | Morgret: but dont forget neo screen is tiny, you run out of horizontal travel very quickly |
| 10:14.56 | XorA | Morgret: Ive found this on other small PDA's |
| 10:15.52 | Morgret | Hey, the touch sensitive part of a Palm is just one square inch, and it works fine! |
| 10:19.02 | *** join/#openmoko dneary (n=dneary@mne69-9-88-163-116-163.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 10:22.39 | l3010o | yea, i thk that wont be a problem for the input |
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| 10:57.53 | l3010o | will neo1973 have the sensor for horizontal and vertical? |
| 10:58.05 | stefan_schmidt | l3010o: no |
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| 11:03.35 | ynezz | is it possible to buy that phone now? |
| 11:03.55 | mjr | no |
| 11:04.07 | mjr | on March 11th on current schedule |
| 11:04.18 | ynezz | I know, but I mean some version for developers or so |
| 11:04.23 | rob_w | XorA, which handwriting recog are you talking about ? xstroke ? or figment ? |
| 11:04.26 | mjr | or Feb 11th if you can qualify for a free developer model |
| 11:04.36 | XorA | rob_w: xstroke for sure |
| 11:04.47 | spikebik1 | counter |
| 11:04.48 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 12:55:12 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 11:05.06 | ynezz | okie |
| 11:05.36 | buz | mhh zi ports ezitext to qtopia |
| 11:05.41 | buz | that looks decent enough |
| 11:06.04 | buz | if it's anything like the stuff in xp tablet edition it's actually quite useable |
| 11:06.14 | rob_w | XorA, that is gesture .. anyway |
| 11:08.57 | loufoque | are there discussions about the next generation of smartphones that will run openmoko ? |
| 11:09.09 | loufoque | I would like to see wi-fi and umts if possible |
| 11:11.49 | aloril | loufoque: and both probably will happen, I think especially wifi is quite likely |
| 11:18.41 | *** join/#openmoko apakatt (n=apakatt@89.207.216.81.static.j.siw.siwnet.net) |
| 11:19.56 | aloril | python bindings are being worked upon: http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/01/fancy_an_open_i_1.html |
| 11:21.00 | aloril | (of course python bindings for lots of stuff in there already exists) |
| 11:21.35 | buz | am i the only one who thinks its kinda weird to run linux vserver on a PHONE? |
| 11:23.23 | aloril | if you loan phone, then you would like to have one? (or also for thief protection) |
| 11:25.37 | Morgret | rob_w: do you have a figure for input overlay resolution on the Neo? |
| 11:25.57 | rob_w | no |
| 11:28.00 | rob_w | Morgret, what do you mean ? |
| 11:28.08 | XorA | Morgret: give someone a chance to actually get the phone |
| 11:28.50 | mickeyl | *yawn* |
| 11:28.51 | mickeyl | morning |
| 11:29.40 | LaF0rge | hi mickeyl |
| 11:30.21 | stefan_schmidt | hi mickeyl, LaF0rge |
| 11:30.36 | *** join/#openmoko florian (n=fuchs@217.146.132.69) |
| 11:30.59 | stefan_schmidt | hi florian |
| 11:31.14 | TRIsoft | Good, uh, morning Mickey ;-) |
| 11:31.15 | florian | hi all |
| 11:32.06 | aloril | hehe, iPhone again 'selling' Neo1973: author thinks Japanese might be more impressed with Neo1973: http://www.onecompare.com/mobile-news/article-asp~aid~227~pub~83010205~story~japan-unimpressed-over-the-iphone-mobile-phone-%E2%80%98revolution%E2%80%99 |
| 11:32.30 | Morgret | XorA: why? People don't need to receive phone before they can work on apps. We simply need to be told the spec. |
| 11:33.17 | mickeyl | morning TRIsoft |
| 11:33.44 | Morgret | Aha, people in the know, 'morning. :P Could we be told the res of the touch-sensitive overlay, in order to plan what apps we might be undertaking? |
| 11:34.36 | XorA | Morgret: because without the phone we dont know the specs :-) |
| 11:35.10 | Morgret | XorA: that's silly. Specs comec on paper, not by measuring the physical unit you receive. |
| 11:35.13 | mickeyl | hmm i would be surprised if the resolution of the ts doesn't match the resolution of the panel. but then again, i'm not a hardware guy |
| 11:37.45 | XorA | mickeyl: it should be ts_print of top left, minus ts_print of bottem right |
| 11:37.58 | XorA | mickeyl: or other way round depending which way TS is wired |
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| 11:39.56 | loufoque | aloril: how could the japanese be interested in the neo 1973 since it doesn't support 3G/UMTS ? |
| 11:40.51 | SpeedEvil | The first one isn't very interesting with 3g as you have no video. |
| 11:41.08 | aloril | loufoque: I think it should said "interested on OpenMoko" ;-) |
| 11:41.09 | SpeedEvil | there isn't enough CPU power to do it AIUI. |
| 11:41.11 | SpeedEvil | Also. |
| 11:41.26 | aloril | loufoque: actually, it didn't say interested, it said impressed |
| 11:43.04 | aloril | interesting that japan also is listed here: http://www.gsmworld.com/roaming/gsminfo/index.shtml (3G only though) |
| 11:43.39 | aloril | http://www.iphonematters.com/article/why_wont_you_be_getting_an_iphone/ is missing most important reason ;-) |
| 11:44.41 | Morgret | Found info on ts res in S3C2410 spec: |
| 11:44.49 | Morgret | The 10-bit CMOS analog to digital converter (ADC) of the S3C2410A is a recycling typed device with 8-channel |
| 11:44.49 | Morgret | analog inputs. It converts the analog input signal into 10-bit binary digital codes at a maximum conversion rate of |
| 11:44.49 | Morgret | 500KSPS with 2.5 MHz A/D converter clock. |
| 11:45.32 | Morgret | So the micro has good res for this. Now we just need to know about the panel. |
| 11:53.46 | Morgret | That's a very fast conversion rate, so handwriting recognition should be pretty good as long as nobody writes their apps with busy-waiting loops. |
| 12:00.27 | Morgret | "The S3C2410A supports hardware horizontal or vertical scrolling. The video buffer in which the image is stored should be larger than the LCD panel screen in size." Nice |
| 12:13.15 | SpeedEvil | Are there only two buttons and the touchscreen then? |
| 12:14.56 | aloril | yes |
| 12:16.19 | SpeedEvil | Thanks |
| 12:17.16 | mjr | incidentally, I asked on the list but got no response, but does anyone here know if the XVideo extension present on the Moko X server mean that the video hardware is capable of scaling (or maybe even colorspace conversion)? |
| 12:17.38 | mjr | or is the extension just pretty much of a dummy? |
| 12:18.37 | mjr | s/of // |
| 12:23.19 | so_solid_moo | i think someone said the soc doesn't support scaling |
| 12:24.18 | buz | rofl |
| 12:24.25 | buz | whining about gnu/linux but using gmail |
| 12:24.28 | buz | talk about hypocritical |
| 12:24.42 | Morgret | But it does support H/V scrolling into a larger video buffer. |
| 12:26.03 | so_solid_moo | most of the good reasons pro-gnu+linux don't really apply to phone OSes. |
| 12:27.25 | buz | in some ways, you could go whining about including cpu architecture into linux name as without microcode you wont run linux |
| 12:32.10 | SpeedEvil | You could - with open microcode. |
| 12:33.11 | mjr | buz, not really applicable, as GNU/Linux OSes can generally run on several, and if a more spesific moniker is needed, it _is_ generally used (ie. "Download the x86 version here" etc.) |
| 12:33.47 | b_lindeijer | I think Linux or GNU/Linux has nothing much to do with contribution of dependence. |
| 12:34.02 | b_lindeijer | Linux never stood for the free software philosophie. |
| 12:34.19 | mjr | but if you're just talking eg. about Debian GNU/Linux, which arcitecture would you say in the name? None, since it doesn't necessarily depend on any one. |
| 12:34.23 | b_lindeijer | contribution or* |
| 12:34.39 | Morgret | OpenMoko will run on many different types of hardware. It's being designed to be not just open but generic. For a start, it'll apply to all the OpenEZX phones too. |
| 12:35.04 | mjr | so_solid_moo, ok (on the scaling); I didn't really expect it to support scaling, just hoping since I saw the Xvideo mention |
| 12:35.37 | danilos | Morgret: oh, wonderful, so there's ongoing work to run it on A1200, for example? |
| 12:35.48 | danilos | Morgret: or is that just plans? |
| 12:36.07 | Morgret | danilos: I don't know specifically. But the two projects share at least one primary developer. |
| 12:39.19 | so_solid_moo | mjr: from looking at it, it doesn't even do colour space conversion in hardware |
| 12:39.44 | mjr | so_solid_moo, yeah well, I expected that it would be even less likely than scaling :) |
| 12:39.54 | so_solid_moo | heh |
| 12:40.07 | mjr | will just have to see how good video I can make it play back just using the CPU... |
| 12:40.19 | so_solid_moo | I guess if the codec's not too extreme it might do ok |
| 12:40.24 | mjr | (I'm not expecting miracles, but will have to try) |
| 12:40.31 | so_solid_moo | indeed |
| 12:40.40 | mjr | yeah, I was thinking like low-bitrate mpeg-1 etc |
| 12:40.48 | so_solid_moo | I would think that would work ok tbh |
| 12:42.39 | danilos | Morgret: ah, I hoped you had some inside infos :) |
| 12:43.09 | noidd | Good Morning! |
| 12:43.18 | SpeedEvil | Has any more A1200 info been released? |
| 12:48.19 | noidd | Bah, 30 mins before I have to head to work. |
| 12:48.20 | stefan_schmidt | Morgret: The projects share two atm and 4-5 after 11.02 :) |
| 12:48.20 | noidd | counter |
| 12:48.21 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 11:11:38 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 12:50.03 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: What A1200 infos you are searching for? |
| 12:50.53 | SpeedEvil | I saw the initial 'this is the linux kernel tarball, aren't we good' posts - I haven't seen any info on how to get your own apps on the phone actually interacting with the user. |
| 12:50.58 | SpeedEvil | Are there now any? |
| 12:53.09 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: You mean from Motorola? |
| 12:53.22 | stefan_schmidt | SpeedEvil: They only allow you java, as always. |
| 12:53.57 | *** join/#openmoko borg_ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 12:53.59 | SpeedEvil | Yes. Oh well. |
| 12:57.13 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=mag@dottedmag.net) |
| 13:03.29 | l3010o | counter |
| 13:03.29 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 10:56:30 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 13:05.28 | *** join/#openmoko nnpiggy (n=nnpiggy@24.crcr10.xdsl.nauticom.net) |
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| 13:13.38 | yacc | stefan_schmidt: well, can you put your own firmware image on the A1200? |
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| 13:17.10 | stefan_schmidt | yacc: No, not yet |
| 13:17.43 | stefan_schmidt | yacc: But you can boot rootfs fom microSD card |
| 13:17.53 | yacc | stefan_schmidt: So it's not really open. It's about as open as any random device that happens to have a linux kernel. |
| 13:19.01 | *** join/#openmoko [g2] (n=g2@nslu2-linux/g2) |
| 13:19.24 | stefan_schmidt | yacc: Right, at the moment it's a piece of junk on sweet hardware. :) |
| 13:19.59 | yacc | stefan_schmidt: not better then HTC winmobiles, which happen to run Linux too. |
| 13:21.05 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 13:21.25 | stefan_schmidt | yacc: Right. There are plans to change this. But expect nothing useful for users before end of 07. No time for more talk right now.Work, sorry. |
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| 13:27.42 | noidd | heaidng to work - back in 45m or so |
| 13:31.25 | Fletch | ³ |
| 13:31.29 | Fletch | ups ^^ |
| 13:38.17 | Morgret | danilos: no, I don't have any internal info, just talking to some of the early external developers. |
| 13:40.04 | Morgret | The guy I just spoke to doesn't have any details of TS input, but reckons that we won't see the 10-bit ADC output -- instead, the TS overlay is probably directly mapped to an X11 pointer, so we'll get it in X11 screen coordinates. |
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| 13:46.24 | Morgret | If we need faster response for handwriting recognition, the ADC output from TS is probably available just by openning the device raw I imagine. Since it's a readonly source, that should be possible even if X11 already has it open. |
| 13:48.04 | LittleIdiot | are you guys using the buildroot toolchain? |
| 13:48.07 | mjr | should be, if the driver supports multi-open, and hey, if it doesn't, fix it |
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| 13:53.45 | Elrond | How do TSs work anyway? |
| 13:54.18 | SpeedEvil | They have transparent conductive films on the close surfaces. |
| 13:54.30 | SpeedEvil | These touch when you touch the screen with something. |
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| 13:55.02 | SpeedEvil | Then, by measuring the resistances between the sides of the under and top layers, on various sides, you can determine where the touch is. |
| 13:55.34 | Elrond | Ahh. So it's not really super-accurate? |
| 13:55.43 | SpeedEvil | It's not bad. |
| 13:56.00 | SpeedEvil | But expecting a full 480*640 pixels may be a bit much. |
| 13:56.21 | SpeedEvil | Of course, out of the question for fingers. |
| 13:56.40 | mjr | yeah, fingers aren't really the state of the art in precision pointing :) |
| 13:56.41 | Elrond | Right. But I'd probably use a stylus anyway... |
| 13:56.58 | LittleIdiot | so multitouch won't be possible? |
| 13:57.04 | SpeedEvil | Don't forget the screen protectors... |
| 13:57.18 | SpeedEvil | Well. With this sort of touchscreen, you can sort of fake it. |
| 13:57.34 | SpeedEvil | As you can - with a couple more electrodes get a bounding touch area |
| 13:57.35 | Elrond | LittleIdiot - I heard, that the hw in the neo supports multiple touch, but the driver needs haevy hacking for that to work. |
| 13:58.09 | SpeedEvil | But without going to other technologies, you can't get 'true' multi-touch. |
| 13:58.11 | LittleIdiot | with only one adc value it won't i suppose |
| 13:59.06 | LittleIdiot | that would be like having two resistors in parallel and then telling their values from just measuring the entrire circuit - not possible |
| 13:59.06 | SpeedEvil | For example, you can shoot sound waves across the display, and do signal processing on the results, to see where it sounds 'dead'. |
| 13:59.13 | Elrond | Does anyone know, how accurate the gps+antenna will be? worse than 10m RMS? |
| 13:59.24 | SpeedEvil | Probably not. |
| 13:59.33 | SpeedEvil | More likely 4-5M RMS or so. |
| 14:00.19 | Elrond | Hmm. That's too good to be true for the size. (a sirfIII with a 3cm x 3cm x 1cm antenna has <10m. |
| 14:00.35 | SpeedEvil | Antenna is pretty irrelevant. |
| 14:00.52 | SpeedEvil | It's more in the signal processing and locking than the actual antenna. |
| 14:01.21 | SpeedEvil | Position degrades little until you lose lock. |
| 14:01.37 | LittleIdiot | hmm, well - multitouch could work! given one finger is always first. when the second finger touches the display it creates a sudden voltage drop (signifficant higher value at the adc port) so it can be done! ;) |
| 14:01.51 | Elrond | AFAIK the antenna is big part of the issue. |
| 14:02.12 | LittleIdiot | we know the value & position of the first finger, so we can measure the second one |
| 14:02.23 | Elrond | LittleIdiot - Yep. |
| 14:03.12 | Mortimus | how big do you think the antenna should be? |
| 14:03.44 | Elrond | I think, the helix antennas are 1cm sphere like. |
| 14:03.55 | SpeedEvil | As big as you can make it - but it's more a 'works at all' issue, rather than position accuracy. |
| 14:04.18 | Mortimus | as big as you can make it is not true |
| 14:04.35 | Mortimus | remember you are looking for a specific frequency |
| 14:04.57 | *** join/#openmoko borg__ (n=olaf@80.149.17.21) |
| 14:05.19 | SpeedEvil | Well, yes, up to a half wave at 1.2Ghz |
| 14:05.41 | SpeedEvil | Or larger if you want to do directional to the GPS satellites for antijamming purposes. |
| 14:06.16 | Elrond | http://trimble.com/l1l2chokering.shtml |
| 14:06.26 | Elrond | That's an antenna ;o) |
| 14:07.28 | Mortimus | i think thats a little extreme for a phone |
| 14:08.08 | Elrond | Well, I'm really looking for "free my gps". ;) |
| 14:08.21 | Mortimus | half length for 1.2 ghz would be 4.68 in |
| 14:08.41 | Mortimus | got to love those ham radio people |
| 14:09.39 | *** join/#openmoko quinton (n=quinton@84-45-151-51.no-dns-yet.enta.net) |
| 14:10.25 | Mortimus | to bad the phone won't have a detachable ground point |
| 14:11.09 | Elrond | "ground point"? |
| 14:11.42 | Mortimus | yes a reference that you could plug in for that extra boost in signal |
| 14:11.54 | Morgret | Elrond: the accuracy is usually fine. It's dependent on the linearity of resistance in the overlay film, as well as the quality of the ADC network. The SoC ts-handling itself uses a 10-bit ADC, so that's around 4 times the res of the screen, ie. very good. |
| 14:12.54 | Morgret | We don't know how good the ts linearity is, since we don't know what display module is being used. |
| 14:12.54 | Elrond | Morgret - Ahh. 4 times? 10 bit = 1024... One direction has 640. Sounds more like 2 times. |
| 14:13.19 | Morgret | 2 x 2 = 4 :P See, I'm quite a wiz at maths :P |
| 14:13.42 | Elrond | Oh, you mean for "number of pixels". |
| 14:13.50 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r (n=Rac0r@p54AA5F97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 14:13.51 | Morgret | Yeah |
| 14:14.25 | Elrond | Morgret - Ahh, you mean an antenna connector port. :) |
| 14:15.09 | Elrond | s/Morgret/Mortimus/ |
| 14:15.11 | Mortimus | wait on a 640x480 screen you have 311040 unique pixels |
| 14:15.46 | Mortimus | yea my bad for not being clear |
| 14:16.20 | Elrond | No problem. |
| 14:17.06 | Mortimus | and with 10 bits that is 1024 unique resistance values |
| 14:17.07 | Elrond | 6m RMS would be good, really. I'm currently pissed by the commercial GPS outdoor handhelds. :-( |
| 14:17.40 | Mortimus | im lost with the touch screen accuracy |
| 14:17.54 | *** join/#openmoko sabor (n=mf@fehu.rola.ch) |
| 14:17.59 | Morgret | On the GPS side, we'll have http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/ for maps one day, plus there's non-street maps like NASA of course, but it's pretty sparse atm. Ideally someone like FIC ought to make an arrangement with some map maker, seeing as they put GPS into the gadget. |
| 14:18.00 | Elrond | Morgret - 10 bits per direction. :) |
| 14:18.08 | Morgret | Elrond: yep |
| 14:18.34 | Mortimus | ahh ok got it now |
| 14:18.36 | Elrond | Morgret - 10 bits per direction. :) |
| 14:18.42 | Elrond | *grrr* |
| 14:19.02 | Elrond | Mortimus - 10 bits per direction. :) |
| 14:19.05 | Elrond | So, that's the right one. |
| 14:19.22 | Morgret | Elrond: yep. So since that's approx twice screen res per direction, it has about points available per screen pixel. Xo x 4 |
| 14:19.25 | Elrond | Morgret - I work for openstreetmap. :) |
| 14:19.44 | Morgret | ElrondL cool! Nice project |
| 14:20.01 | Elrond | And I want GPS to do the mapping. :) |
| 14:20.24 | Morgret | Indeed, this will be a nice gadget for that :P |
| 14:21.00 | Elrond | I should ask, if I get a discount, as openstreetmap probably will provide the maps. ;) |
| 14:21.02 | SpeedEvil | GPS: http://www.mauve.demon.co.uk/gps-average.gif - probability circles are for 10s averaging, red dots are 10s, green 100s, magenta 1 hour |
| 14:21.17 | SpeedEvil | this is a garmin GPS12, the one in the phone may be a little better. |
| 14:21.22 | SpeedEvil | It gives an iea though. |
| 14:21.24 | SpeedEvil | idea |
| 14:21.34 | SpeedEvil | plot of positions averaged over time. |
| 14:21.42 | SpeedEvil | from a stationary reference point. |
| 14:22.11 | *** join/#openmoko parag0n_ (n=parag0n@popeshoe.gotadsl.co.uk) |
| 14:22.56 | SpeedEvil | I'm surprised that's still up, I stopped paying the bill 3 years ago. |
| 14:23.45 | Morgret | SpeedEvil: Yeah, that's roughly what I get on my Holux GPSlim236. But vertical res is totally attrocious: it places my altitude as varying +/- 200m every few mins |
| 14:24.33 | Elrond | yuck. |
| 14:24.58 | Morgret | So I wouldn't want to fly a plane by it :P |
| 14:25.57 | noidd | use IFR :-) |
| 14:26.06 | noidd | ILR even |
| 14:26.46 | Morgret | Igneous Luminal Runifications? |
| 14:30.09 | noidd | counter |
| 14:30.09 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 09:29:50 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 14:31.22 | Elrond | 1.5 months and $350. ;) |
| 14:31.55 | Morgret | I can't wait here for 6 weeks, I'll go nuts. :P Somebody start an alternative project for it in OE :P |
| 14:35.23 | Elrond | OE? |
| 14:36.39 | Mortimus | open embedded i think |
| 14:37.33 | Morgret | Yeah |
| 14:38.35 | Elrond | Isn't the neo in openembedded anyway? |
| 14:40.23 | Morgret | Yep, but it won't be an open project until mid-March I thouht |
| 14:40.40 | noidd | Source and Respositories open in 16 days |
| 14:40.53 | leventhal | Cool! |
| 14:41.12 | Morgret | Ah that's better. Just no public commits until mid-March then, but we can work in parallel |
| 14:41.14 | noidd | Along with bugzilla, wiki and first batch of sample phones. |
| 14:41.31 | noidd | Commits are allowed from Feb 11th |
| 14:42.00 | Morgret | Counter message not right then |
| 14:42.03 | noidd | In fact, you can start developing now if you want |
| 14:42.07 | noidd | just pull OpenEmbedded |
| 14:42.41 | Mortimus | i wish i knew more programming |
| 14:42.57 | Mortimus | just finished pointers |
| 14:42.58 | Morgret | Have it for my Slug, could do with updating though |
| 14:43.03 | noidd | The only difference between a regular Gtk application and an OpenMoko themed application I'm guessing will be the addition of the OpenMoko specific widgets |
| 14:43.34 | noidd | I would bet that they inherit directly from the native widgets (mickeyl specifically said he wanted to avoid patching upstream Gtk) |
| 14:43.45 | Morgret | Good |
| 14:43.52 | noidd | so, what I am doing is writing with native widgets |
| 14:44.34 | noidd | and when the time comes, replacing the "Gtk2::Window" widget with an "Gtk2::OpenMokoWindow" (or whatever) widget I'm guessing will just work |
| 14:44.50 | Morgret | Gtk's got themes, so that'll avoid the complaints about UI colours etc, which we're already hearing hehe |
| 14:45.00 | noidd | the reason we did not use maemo was because of the amount of patched libs that had to be used. We're trying to remain more clean |
| 14:45.31 | noidd | The Gtk tk actually has a nice inherited model so you can add your own widgets to the toolkit without having to patch upstream |
| 14:45.33 | Elrond | noidd - Cool. |
| 14:45.37 | noidd | so it's a cleaner choice imho :-) |
| 14:45.48 | Morgret | Sounds good |
| 14:45.51 | noidd | Gtk themes are nasty |
| 14:46.08 | noidd | For example, they don't support widget layers |
| 14:46.13 | Elrond | Just curious: Why gtk and not qt? |
| 14:46.26 | Elrond | (I like gtk! I'm just curious for the reasons) |
| 14:46.39 | noidd | I prefer Gtk too so I'm biased. |
| 14:46.52 | noidd | I think it had to do with licencing - I could be wrong. |
| 14:47.19 | noidd | I know that mickeyl has a preference for Qt over Gtk too - so it must have been a substantial reason for him to move us in that direction. |
| 14:47.25 | Morgret | Remember that Qt is not free for commercial use. It's a fine line whether a commercial phone using Free-Qt is commercial use or not |
| 14:48.09 | Elrond | free-qt still isn't 100% free? |
| 14:48.10 | Morgret | So my guess it, they just want to avoid any issues. |
| 14:48.52 | Mortimus | your marketing the hardware |
| 14:49.22 | Elrond | open hardware... :) |
| 14:49.23 | Morgret | Free-Qt is totally free for non-commercial use. Just not for commercial use, needs licensing -- that's how Trolltech make some money. |
| 14:50.09 | *** join/#openmoko prpplague (n=dave@12.190.41.146) |
| 14:50.16 | Morgret | But since FIC couldn't sell the phone without running software (Mum and Dad wouldn't buy it), there's clearly an issue with bolshy lawyers. |
| 14:50.25 | Elrond | Morgret - Huh. I wonder, how it got through the Debian DFSG then... But I don't want to look for real now. |
| 14:50.43 | xorAxAx | Morgret: sources? |
| 14:51.06 | Morgret | xorAxAx: Trolltech licensing pages, I just read them 2-3 days ago |
| 14:51.26 | Mortimus | i remember reading them when i used kde |
| 14:51.48 | Elrond | But after buying the hw, I can install kde on it, right? ;o) |
| 14:51.51 | buz | qt4-gpl is free for commerical use |
| 14:51.56 | buz | qtopia phone is not |
| 14:52.10 | Elrond | Ahh, there's a -gpl version. :-) |
| 14:52.11 | Morgret | But remember that there is nothing stopping anyone who isn't FIC putting Qt on the phone! :P |
| 14:52.39 | buz | it would not even stop fic |
| 14:52.55 | buz | it would however stop people from releasing closed source stuff for openmoko without getting a qt license |
| 14:52.58 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@mail.backchannelmedia.com) |
| 14:53.15 | Morgret | I don't want to get into the discussion. I know lawyers, and they suck. So, I think OpenMoko is doing the safe thing. :-) |
| 14:53.29 | Elrond | Yep. |
| 14:53.55 | buz | besides it will likely be days if not hours until qt runs on openmoko |
| 14:54.04 | Morgret | Hehe, indeed |
| 14:54.13 | buz | kde on your phone, lol |
| 14:54.34 | *** join/#openmoko ajturner_ (n=ajturner@d14-69-64-67.try.wideopenwest.com) |
| 14:55.48 | Morgret | Bah, desktops. All we need running is init, shell, and vi ;-))))) |
| 14:56.12 | Mortimus | i LOATHE vi |
| 14:56.29 | Morgret | That's OK, I'm sure it loathes you too :P |
| 14:56.32 | leventhal | vi grew on me |
| 14:56.46 | leventhal | its debatable whether that was malignant growth or not |
| 14:56.47 | Mortimus | but maybe thats because i never took the time to memorize the manual |
| 14:56.54 | prpplague | yea vi grows on you....kinda like a fungus |
| 14:57.00 | Mortimus | i like nano |
| 14:57.26 | rboehme | vi does grow on you |
| 14:57.40 | leventhal | I used nano for ages but then I started to realize that I liked having fast access to regexps, :split, and the bar at the bottom of nano chews up too much space on a phone |
| 14:57.41 | Morgret | Real programmers edit files with gdb. |
| 14:57.58 | Elrond | Mortimus - vim is good for exactly one thing: extra-hard search-and-replace. ;) |
| 14:57.59 | rboehme | much easier for me when I don't have to lift my fingers from the keyboard |
| 14:59.16 | Morgret | Elrond: that's about right. vi's forte is global edits. Emacs is simpler for text entry. But both can obviously do everything. And so can any other editor. |
| 14:59.46 | Elrond | Well, vi on the phone doesn't make much fun, having to paint a colon, a "w" and "q" to save-and-exit. ;o) |
| 15:00.00 | Mortimus | vi's plus is that it is ridiculously small |
| 15:00.18 | Morgret | Use ed if size matters ;-) |
| 15:00.19 | Elrond | vim isn't really anymore "small". ;) |
| 15:00.55 | *** join/#openmoko dottedmag (n=mag@dottedmag.net) |
| 15:01.11 | SpeedEvil | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root bin 1349284 Sep 18 2003 /usr/bin/vim* |
| 15:01.20 | SpeedEvil | And the ldd output looks like a christmas tree. |
| 15:01.24 | Sketch | i'm an emacs guy, and i think vi would be easier to use on a phone ;) |
| 15:01.34 | Morgret | That's an old vim, it's bloated now |
| 15:01.36 | Morgret | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 2429524 Oct 5 12:17 vim |
| 15:01.47 | SpeedEvil | ... |
| 15:02.18 | Elrond | 21M /usr/share/vim |
| 15:03.10 | Elrond | That would eat one third of the flash on the phone. ;) |
| 15:03.26 | *** join/#openmoko pike_ (i=pike@server1.freeshells.ch) |
| 15:03.32 | SpeedEvil | I keep feeling that software would improve if developers were forced to use a fixed hardware platform for non processor intensive apps. |
| 15:03.43 | *** join/#openmoko morricone (i=foobar@dslb-084-057-177-053.pools.arcor-ip.net) |
| 15:03.53 | SpeedEvil | Ongoing bloat gets insane. |
| 15:04.27 | Mortimus | i love industries solution to bloat |
| 15:04.35 | Mortimus | get bigger and better |
| 15:04.37 | SpeedEvil | Buy New Stuff! |
| 15:04.50 | Mortimus | so that you notice the bloat so much |
| 15:04.52 | SpeedEvil | Yes, you need a 4Ghz processor to use teh intarnets! |
| 15:05.26 | Mortimus | yea thats like having dual core but only ever using one core |
| 15:05.49 | Mortimus | and keeping it clocked at the lowest possible frequency |
| 15:05.54 | Elrond | Yeah. |
| 15:06.11 | Mortimus | it do that |
| 15:06.32 | SpeedEvil | It would be quite nice if you could take a 4Ghz processor, clock it to 400Mhz, and get the same mips/watt. |
| 15:06.32 | Mortimus | i only got it because i saw my old processor get to 72 c |
| 15:06.37 | Elrond | I have a 2.8GHz thingy on my work desktop... and what am I doing? Right: irc. ;o) |
| 15:07.07 | danilos | Elrond: can it cope, though? :) |
| 15:07.18 | SpeedEvil | Only if you don't use chatzilla. |
| 15:07.44 | Elrond | danilos - At least the fans aren't going loud, so it can't be too heavy. ;) |
| 15:07.53 | SpeedEvil | Currently I'm finding it impossible to source the alleged low-power grade of the AMD CPUs. |
| 15:08.02 | SpeedEvil | The 35W design power ones. |
| 15:08.11 | SpeedEvil | 62W are readily available. |
| 15:08.24 | Mortimus | is that the low end of the envolope ? |
| 15:08.29 | SpeedEvil | (ADD / SDD codes = 35W, ADA/SDA = 62W) |
| 15:08.29 | Morgret | Well there just won't be room on the Neo for much if we use our normal compiled apps approach. It's either a select few normal apps, or a large number of high-level scripted ones. |
| 15:08.48 | SpeedEvil | Something like firefox, could work well. |
| 15:08.54 | SpeedEvil | If only it wasn't for the leaks. |
| 15:09.23 | SpeedEvil | Maybe just install sessionsaver, and restart it every time the user stops playing with the phone :) |
| 15:09.29 | Mortimus | would the neo support cpu governors ? |
| 15:10.07 | Elrond | Morgret - well, I only want a decent gps. So the phines flash/ram should suffice for that. |
| 15:10.19 | Morgret | Aye |
| 15:10.32 | SpeedEvil | If only there were a cheap linux database available. |
| 15:10.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - sqlite. |
| 15:10.49 | SpeedEvil | ^road |
| 15:10.51 | *** join/#openmoko skome (n=skome@li4-40.members.linode.com) |
| 15:10.58 | SpeedEvil | oops |
| 15:11.10 | Morgret | Think he meant maps db |
| 15:11.15 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 15:11.26 | Elrond | openstreetmap evolves fast these days. |
| 15:11.35 | SpeedEvil | The TomTom people might be interesting to talk to - the tomtom devices run on linux, though the app is not seperately available. |
| 15:11.38 | Elrond | That's really, why I want a gps. ;) |
| 15:11.42 | SpeedEvil | In well-travelled places. |
| 15:11.50 | leventhal | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 468896 Aug 22 2005 vi |
| 15:11.52 | SpeedEvil | With large tech-interested populations. |
| 15:12.02 | leventhal | Damn, my vi is positively scrawny compared to everyone else's |
| 15:12.10 | hadara | 320 -r-xr-xr-x 6 root wheel 304508 Jun 8 2006 /usr/bin/vi* |
| 15:12.19 | *** join/#openmoko Boaz_- (n=Boaz@bull1.hereno.info) |
| 15:12.21 | SpeedEvil | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 5 Mar 3 1999 /usr/bin/vi -> elvis* |
| 15:12.24 | SpeedEvil | Even smaller! |
| 15:12.25 | SpeedEvil | :) |
| 15:12.26 | Morgret | Hehehe |
| 15:12.30 | leventhal | SE cheats |
| 15:12.34 | *** join/#openmoko Rac0r_ (n=Rac0r@p54AA5F97.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 15:12.40 | SpeedEvil | Though elvis is only 300K |
| 15:12.48 | Sketch | -r-xr-xr-x 5 root bin 240300 Feb 13 2006 /usr/bin/vi |
| 15:13.01 | Sketch | vi on solaris 10 ;) |
| 15:13.27 | Elrond | 390484 2006-10-19 01:00 /usr/bin/joe |
| 15:13.38 | SpeedEvil | Sigh. |
| 15:13.39 | Mortimus | i guess it depends what you compile it with |
| 15:13.47 | SpeedEvil | And the link options. |
| 15:13.54 | *** join/#openmoko tchuladdiass (n=derekp@c-24-12-232-138.hsd1.il.comcast.net) |
| 15:14.11 | Elrond | Anyway, I need to do some work. ;) |
| 15:14.15 | Morgret | That's nice, Sketch, small. I'll be getting a Sun Fire soon. |
| 15:14.18 | Elrond | Later guys. :) |
| 15:14.29 | Morgret | Cya Elrond |
| 15:14.30 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54007F28.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 15:14.32 | Mortimus | later |
| 15:15.14 | Sketch | SpeedEvil: the comment about ongoing bloat reminded me of the time i tried to upgrade a fully functional slackware system with X on a 40mb hard drive from a libc5 based system to a libc6 based system... |
| 15:15.16 | *** join/#openmoko aloril2 (n=aloril@kaar72.airix.fi) |
| 15:15.28 | Sketch | i didn't even have enough room to install the base system, glibc alone took up over half the drive ;) |
| 15:15.32 | Morgret | Hehe |
| 15:17.21 | Morgret | My little Slug's got a 2.2G CF-size microdrive. How tech changes |
| 15:18.37 | SpeedEvil | I've wondered about a tool that makes sparse libraries. Simply omitting stuff that's not used by a set of programs. |
| 15:19.07 | Mortimus | sounds like a binary distro |
| 15:19.17 | stefan_schmidt | counter |
| 15:19.17 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 08:40:42 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 15:19.31 | Mortimus | we have a counter |
| 15:19.37 | Mortimus | thats funny |
| 15:20.13 | Morgret | But it's stuck. No matter how many times I've looked at it today, it's always said 2 week 2 days ..... ;-) |
| 15:21.59 | *** join/#openmoko ab (n=ab@mail.samba.org) |
| 15:22.42 | Mortimus | i love how i get scan lines when using the dvd player |
| 15:22.43 | *** join/#openmoko amarsh04 (n=amarsh04@CPE-124-177-207-179.sa.bigpond.net.au) |
| 15:27.54 | *** join/#openmoko dilinger (n=dilinger@c-65-96-191-108.hsd1.ma.comcast.net) |
| 15:42.10 | *** join/#openmoko Zer0Her0 (n=Z@17.255.240.70) |
| 15:42.26 | SpeedEvil | A watched project never releases. |
| 15:43.01 | Zer0Her0 | haha |
| 15:43.24 | TRIsoft | That's why Mickey doesn't have a webcam :-D |
| 15:43.44 | Mortimus | especially if your counter is broken |
| 15:49.18 | noidd | counter |
| 15:49.18 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 08:10:41 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 15:54.05 | *** join/#openmoko orospakr (n=orospakr@bas4-ottawa23-1088826528.dsl.bell.ca) |
| 15:55.48 | *** join/#openmoko Demitar__ (n=demitar@c-212-031-191-125.cust.broadway.se) |
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| 16:09.51 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@mail.backchannelmedia.com) |
| 16:11.23 | Morgret | We're all going to be nervous wrecks by 2 weeks 2 day's time!!!! |
| 16:15.58 | *** join/#openmoko ValiSystM (n=ValiSyst@81.56.207.165) |
| 16:25.18 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=rob_w@p549B97AF.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 16:27.34 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54007F28.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 16:30.41 | hrw | I'm curious how many devs from Poland will get/buy neo1973 |
| 16:31.11 | *** join/#openmoko PirateHead (n=piratehe@ACA11086.ipt.aol.com) |
| 16:32.09 | MetaMorfoziS | detto with hungary;) |
| 16:33.30 | hrw | MetaMorfoziS: I'm the only one official OE devel in Poland ;D |
| 16:33.45 | MetaMorfoziS | :D |
| 16:46.10 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
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| 17:01.50 | Mortimus | openmoko is going to use sysvint? |
| 17:01.55 | *** join/#openmoko activity\out (i=activity@activity.rimex-ltd.com) |
| 17:02.22 | hrw | Mortimus: rather yes |
| 17:03.23 | Mortimus | i don't care for sysvint:(, I should attempt to get a dev environment going |
| 17:03.32 | Mortimus | to see if i can get initng going |
| 17:03.55 | mickeyl | sysvinit definitly until phase 1 |
| 17:04.06 | mickeyl | between phase 1 and phase 2 we are going to move to another init system |
| 17:04.12 | mickeyl | which one has not been decided |
| 17:04.14 | *** join/#openmoko goxboxlive (n=goxboxli@9.80-202-160.nextgentel.com) |
| 17:04.16 | mickeyl | it needs to be FAST |
| 17:04.25 | mickeyl | bootup time is crucial |
| 17:04.46 | Mortimus | ok, sysvinit has one thing going its STABLE |
| 17:06.03 | hrw | mickeyl: does MokoPIM has MokoToday? |
| 17:08.09 | mickeyl | hrw: yeah. at least the specs is done, but no code yet. i'm hoping to finish this in time for phase 1 |
| 17:08.18 | mickeyl | (or someone else) |
| 17:08.36 | mickeyl | openmoko-today is supposed to be the root window application |
| 17:08.50 | mickeyl | for phase 0 we will just ship a main menu and some additional apps |
| 17:09.30 | hrw | I hope that it takes plugins |
| 17:09.57 | buz | rofl |
| 17:10.05 | hrw | buz: ? |
| 17:10.12 | buz | kubuntu has kde 3.5.6 debs out before the release announcement is even out |
| 17:10.34 | buz | now pray fix that dreaded height bug in konqui |
| 17:10.34 | hrw | buz: OE often got software before release was announced |
| 17:10.35 | MetaMorfoziS | ? |
| 17:10.42 | MetaMorfoziS | kde 3.5.6 stable is out? |
| 17:10.48 | *** join/#openmoko krau (n=cktakaha@200.184.118.132) |
| 17:10.50 | buz | MetaMorfoziS: seems like it is |
| 17:10.59 | buz | riddell doesnt usually pass beta for stable |
| 17:11.01 | MetaMorfoziS | i thought that is @ 3.5.8 iirc. |
| 17:11.09 | buz | no, 3.5.5 |
| 17:11.16 | MetaMorfoziS | thats the current |
| 17:11.21 | buz | es |
| 17:11.23 | buz | yes |
| 17:11.28 | MetaMorfoziS | but the next dev version iirc that i see is 3.5.80 |
| 17:11.37 | MetaMorfoziS | http://kde.org/ |
| 17:11.38 | MetaMorfoziS | :D |
| 17:11.40 | buz | should be 3.8.20 ? |
| 17:11.48 | MetaMorfoziS | http://kde.org/announcements/announce-3.5.6.php |
| 17:12.11 | MetaMorfoziS | http://kubuntu.org/ |
| 17:12.19 | MetaMorfoziS | huh kubu guys are fast as lightning:D |
| 17:12.26 | MetaMorfoziS | i'm go to upgrade:) |
| 17:12.34 | buz | yeah me too |
| 17:12.39 | buz | now where does that gpg key live |
| 17:12.58 | buz | ah there it is |
| 17:13.00 | MetaMorfoziS | i think you have checked that minute that is before the announce and after the relase:D |
| 17:13.18 | MetaMorfoziS | why i need a new repo to add? |
| 17:13.19 | MetaMorfoziS | brah. |
| 17:13.33 | buz | always with late updates for kubuntu |
| 17:14.18 | buz | you gotta be kidding me |
| 17:14.24 | buz | that mirror delivers 50K |
| 17:14.26 | buz | on a 5mbit pipe |
| 17:14.40 | MetaMorfoziS | hoh, i try: deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde-latest instead of deb http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde-356 |
| 17:14.49 | MetaMorfoziS | because: http://kubuntu.org/packages/kde-latest/ |
| 17:15.03 | buz | oh thats neat |
| 17:15.08 | buz | i always wondered why that doesnt exist |
| 17:15.13 | *** join/#openmoko johnny67 (n=johnny67@nvg1-01.yvr.sxip.com) |
| 17:16.01 | buz | oh |
| 17:16.04 | buz | kubuntu.org is much faster |
| 17:16.17 | MetaMorfoziS | yep, the others always slow |
| 17:16.30 | buz | are we supposed to restart X after upgrade, anyway? |
| 17:16.30 | Mortimus | bleeding edge |
| 17:17.12 | Mortimus | i would recommend restarting X since you would still be running old versions of the binarys |
| 17:17.19 | Mortimus | until you restart |
| 17:17.25 | buz | yeah i figured |
| 17:17.29 | MetaMorfoziS | :) |
| 17:17.40 | MetaMorfoziS | hmm 100mb of download (with beryl upgrades) |
| 17:17.47 | MetaMorfoziS | oh, is openmoko able to run beryl? |
| 17:17.51 | MetaMorfoziS | i'm just kidding:)) |
| 17:18.01 | Mortimus | your SICK |
| 17:18.06 | buz | you might be able to run beryl on an iphone |
| 17:18.29 | MetaMorfoziS | i'm don't want a trendy bullshit phone |
| 17:18.30 | Mortimus | is that unix based like the rest of mac? |
| 17:18.51 | MetaMorfoziS | dunno |
| 17:22.09 | MetaMorfoziS | buz, did you know "yakuake"? |
| 17:24.05 | loufoque | why would you want to install KDE on OpenMoko ? |
| 17:24.39 | Elrond | loufoque - To get krusader ;) |
| 17:24.44 | MetaMorfoziS | :DDDDD |
| 17:25.01 | MetaMorfoziS | no i'm just kidding, i don'T think this device is able to run any bigger de's |
| 17:25.04 | MetaMorfoziS | '- |
| 17:25.40 | SpeedEvil | I wonder if there are any flash memories that can cope with swapping. |
| 17:25.41 | loufoque | Elrond: even rox-filer is better than that |
| 17:25.42 | MetaMorfoziS | but i'll be happy if this device have some very usefull features that kde have |
| 17:26.35 | Elrond | loufoque - Hmm, let me try rox-filer. :) |
| 17:27.47 | buz | even kde should work on 128mb |
| 17:28.26 | mickeyl | guys, please don't have too high hopes on the performance |
| 17:28.37 | cbpage | yeah |
| 17:28.41 | mickeyl | the main CPU is pretty slow. i wouldn't even think about KDE |
| 17:28.55 | mickeyl | even naked Gtk+ is sluggish at this (unoptimized) point |
| 17:29.07 | MetaMorfoziS | no way to use qt? |
| 17:29.10 | cbpage | you can use qt |
| 17:29.11 | mickeyl | ~lart lack of FPU and hardware accel |
| 17:29.14 | loufoque | so I can't use the neo1973 to do scientific computations? |
| 17:29.14 | cbpage | but you're not getting eye candy |
| 17:29.18 | cbpage | lol |
| 17:29.20 | cbpage | ;) |
| 17:29.23 | MetaMorfoziS | :DD |
| 17:29.29 | MetaMorfoziS | yep but not get a buggy widget set:D |
| 17:29.51 | XorA | mickeyl: I hope neo 2 will be DIRAC :-) |
| 17:30.01 | cbpage | if you know what the first ipaq can do, think that with a better screen |
| 17:30.03 | buz | mhh entereing formula on a touchscreen is gonna suck |
| 17:30.04 | MetaMorfoziS | XorA: my 2year old, noname notebook runs 2.5hours with kde (under working, not standying) |
| 17:30.08 | mickeyl | XorA: neo 2 will have pleeeeeeeeenty of power. and that's about all i can say |
| 17:30.10 | Elrond | mickeyl - I want a "free gps" anyway only. :) |
| 17:30.44 | buz | who makes dirac |
| 17:30.48 | buz | i only know the codec by that name |
| 17:30.51 | cbpage | ditto |
| 17:30.55 | *** join/#openmoko mikesh (n=mikesh@x133.net.upc.cz) |
| 17:31.01 | SpeedEvil | 8Ghz processor, powered by a little turbine running from the convection currents from the CPU :) |
| 17:31.03 | mickeyl | putting Qt on the device will be an interesting experience |
| 17:31.03 | buz | imx31 sound schweet tho |
| 17:31.12 | MetaMorfoziS | is the "TYPING" possible humanly on this device with touchscreen? (like an onscreen keyboard?) |
| 17:31.15 | mickeyl | i would have done this earlier, but i have no time |
| 17:31.19 | loufoque | MetaMorfoziS: you probably didn't configure the battery management very well |
| 17:31.26 | SpeedEvil | Ttthere are various ways to enter text. |
| 17:31.31 | MetaMorfoziS | loufoque: really? |
| 17:31.34 | buz | i always use kde on my notebook |
| 17:31.37 | MetaMorfoziS | how can i do better |
| 17:31.38 | buz | right now, in fact ;) |
| 17:31.46 | SpeedEvil | You can have handwriting recognition, or on-screen letter-boards. |
| 17:31.52 | PirateHead | MetaMorfoziS: o rly? | loufoque: ya rly |
| 17:32.02 | MetaMorfoziS | :D |
| 17:32.06 | cbpage | yeah mx31 looks sweet |
| 17:32.11 | buz | XorA: got a spec sheet for that mysterious cpu of yours? |
| 17:32.21 | cbpage | 533mhz(+), l2 cache, mpeg-4 *encode* accell, etc |
| 17:32.24 | cbpage | http://www.freescale.com/webapp/sps/site/prod_summary.jsp?code=i.MX31&nodeId=01J4Fs2973ZrDR#orderables |
| 17:32.34 | buz | yeah that one is really neat |
| 17:32.42 | buz | tho it needs a good camera to make full use of it |
| 17:32.49 | MetaMorfoziS | i'm asking about it's usefullness, so can i code on that? can i develop on that? (text editing) |
| 17:32.54 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Is that in the base version as shipped in 2 weeks? |
| 17:32.54 | MetaMorfoziS | in humanly and relatively fast way? |
| 17:32.58 | cbpage | bluetooth keyboard |
| 17:32.59 | buz | no |
| 17:33.02 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: probably not. |
| 17:33.04 | buz | not without a keyboard |
| 17:33.11 | buz | oh my kde upgrade is done |
| 17:33.12 | MetaMorfoziS | bt keyboard? |
| 17:33.16 | buz | *restartsx* |
| 17:33.16 | MetaMorfoziS | hmm |
| 17:33.24 | MetaMorfoziS | i check out where is that exists. |
| 17:33.26 | SpeedEvil | no, it's going to be slow, entering text on a little screen. Whatever you do. |
| 17:33.39 | cbpage | targus has a nice folding one |
| 17:34.09 | cbpage | logitech *needs* to make a bt trackball though |
| 17:34.10 | cbpage | i have no idea why they haven't yet |
| 17:34.21 | SpeedEvil | Trackballs are still a bit niche. |
| 17:34.35 | MetaMorfoziS | http://www.mobilport.hu/?r=1295 |
| 17:34.41 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Is the on-screen keyboard ready? |
| 17:34.42 | MetaMorfoziS | bahahhahaaa i want one from this:DD |
| 17:34.45 | cbpage | yeah - but still if you're sitting on a couch a bt trackball is much more useful |
| 17:34.59 | SpeedEvil | Elrond: I was meaning what's possible - not what's present. |
| 17:35.11 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Ahh. ;) |
| 17:35.18 | SpeedEvil | A keyboard hung off the USB or BT ports is needed at first. |
| 17:35.30 | cbpage | meta - yeah that one :) |
| 17:35.45 | MetaMorfoziS | so this problem is solved |
| 17:35.51 | Elrond | For the usb-keyboard, you'd need a power'd hub, right |
| 17:35.52 | Elrond | ? |
| 17:35.55 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 17:36.03 | SpeedEvil | Or a self-powered keyboard. |
| 17:36.08 | MetaMorfoziS | yes, but if you have a bt one, you isn'T need a cable;) |
| 17:36.18 | SpeedEvil | Unless you insist on one. |
| 17:36.23 | SpeedEvil | It can get you better range. |
| 17:36.30 | SpeedEvil | But that's a little silly. |
| 17:37.02 | MetaMorfoziS | lol, my phone has the HID service o bluetooth, so for mouse i can use my phone, for keyboard i can use this ^^ so i'm getting lol |
| 17:37.29 | SpeedEvil | Not directlyt. |
| 17:37.38 | MetaMorfoziS | Elrond: it can |
| 17:37.48 | MetaMorfoziS | it have a bluetooth hid service |
| 17:38.05 | MetaMorfoziS | and i succesfully used my phone as a mouse, so the keyboard is possible as the same (kuuntu edgy) |
| 17:38.12 | SpeedEvil | However, you can talk to thephone likke a USB peripheral, have a network connection to it, and put the keyboard over that protocol. |
| 17:39.06 | Elrond | So this really is a geek device currently. ;) |
| 17:39.15 | *** join/#openmoko MetaMorfoziS (n=sajt@dsl54007F28.pool.t-online.hu) |
| 17:39.30 | *** join/#openmoko Matt_PI (n=chatzill@209.198.66.141) |
| 17:39.58 | MetaMorfoziS | Sysinfo for 'powa': Linux 2.6.17-10-generic running KDE 3.5.6, CPU: Intel(R)Pentium(R)DCPU2.66GHz at 2660 MHz (5320 bogomips), , RAM: 941/1003MB, 108 proc's, 2.29h up |
| 17:40.03 | MetaMorfoziS | yeppej |
| 17:40.09 | Elrond | But still looks like the better choice than a garmin gpsmap60cx ;o) |
| 17:42.12 | MetaMorfoziS | and what goes the default browser on openmoko? |
| 17:42.20 | MetaMorfoziS | ( relating: http://www.kde.org/announcements/changelogs/changelog3_5_5to3_5_6.php khtml gets hm.) |
| 17:47.25 | *** join/#openmoko bprice20 (n=brandon@216.120.224.199) |
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| 17:49.08 | PirateHead | would you use a trackball with your mobile phone? |
| 17:49.19 | PirateHead | if it were built into the phone, that would actually be really cool |
| 17:49.35 | PirateHead | Maybe if it were in the back, you could manipulate it with your pointer while looking at the screne. |
| 17:49.39 | PirateHead | screen* |
| 17:49.56 | MetaMorfoziS | trackball is the mouse that is rotated?:) |
| 17:50.05 | LoRez | PirateHead: there's one in the new Pearl phones |
| 17:50.13 | PirateHead | cool, LoRez |
| 17:50.39 | PirateHead | you could click by pushing it in |
| 17:50.52 | PirateHead | right click by pushing in and holding, like on a Mac one-button |
| 17:51.08 | PirateHead | and move by rotating |
| 17:51.11 | PirateHead | I dig it |
| 17:55.14 | *** join/#openmoko rob_w (n=bob@p85.212.149.156.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 17:59.33 | Elrond | Are the two buttons on the neo mapped to two mouse buttons? |
| 18:03.21 | *** join/#openmoko buz (n=buz@80-218-148-33.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:04.32 | *** join/#openmoko Fjodor (n=sune@0x55510b65.adsl.cybercity.dk) |
| 18:06.51 | Fjodor | While I would love to do some app for the OpenMoko, I fear my developer skills are inferior. Would there instead be interest in shipping units to strategically placed individuals, who could then act as role models? ;-) |
| 18:08.07 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 18:08.07 | cjb | Fjodor: you could just buy one. the developer models are assigned already. |
| 18:09.25 | Fjodor | cjb: Fair enough. The trouble is money, though. I am a university student |
| 18:10.09 | LittleIdiot | why don't you earn money with modeling? *g* |
| 18:10.39 | *** join/#openmoko greentux (n=lemke@195.227.105.180) |
| 18:11.10 | Fjodor | LittleIdiot: Lol. Though that is another problem. I can't earn any money on the sort of scholarship I get |
| 18:11.40 | bprice20 | the whore yourself under the table |
| 18:11.50 | bprice20 | lord knows I did** |
| 18:13.25 | Fjodor | Yes, well, I know my proposal was ridiculous, but there might have been a chance :-) At any rate, I could probably get some pretty smart guys interested in the device |
| 18:14.05 | CM | Fjodor: That's what I'm trying to too ;) |
| 18:14.21 | *** join/#openmoko Robot101 (n=robot101@light.bluelinux.co.uk) |
| 18:14.27 | noidd | I wonder... |
| 18:14.36 | Fjodor | CM :-) |
| 18:15.09 | Morgret | There's unlikely to be a shortage of developers, as soon as there is a streamlined official OE build framework. I bet apps will appear in huge numbers. |
| 18:15.16 | noidd | I wonder if apps should be written in 640x480 Gtk2::Windows |
| 18:15.25 | noidd | or whether there is a custom container widget that we should be using |
| 18:15.47 | *** join/#openmoko xerom (n=jack@bl4-145-51.dsl.telepac.pt) |
| 18:16.38 | CM | I can wait 2 weeks and see what's available by then |
| 18:17.33 | buz | noidd: afaik there are a few custom widgets |
| 18:18.32 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 18:18.33 | noidd | buz: I know, just curious as to what Gtk widget they inherit from. |
| 18:18.53 | noidd | then I can be sure I can just swap the object out with the new one and everything should "Just Work"[tm] |
| 18:19.11 | Fjodor | Btw., the February launch. Will that be to the Asian, American, European market or all of them? |
| 18:19.18 | buz | that will be devs only |
| 18:19.25 | buz | march will be world wide |
| 18:19.25 | noidd | 55 devs in total |
| 18:19.32 | Fjodor | March, ok |
| 18:19.51 | Elrond | Fjodor - 6 weeks to wait... And I want a toy now! ;) |
| 18:19.58 | XorA | :-D |
| 18:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-18-223-39.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 18:20.10 | noidd | I saw someone say that during the wee hours of the morning so take it with a pinch of salt (it wasn't being said by one of teh devs) |
| 18:20.10 | LittleIdiot | go, play with youself, i can send you some pron ;) |
| 18:20.11 | XorA | now if only the case had lego moldings |
| 18:20.14 | Fjodor | Elrond: Indeed |
| 18:20.44 | noidd | Wow, for the first time in my life I'm actually going to have a use for GtkFixed |
| 18:20.46 | noidd | :-P |
| 18:21.12 | Fjodor | XorA: Actually, at my uni, we have a course about programming the Lego Mindstorms thingy :-) |
| 18:21.24 | *** join/#openmoko neurocyt1 (n=cjvdb@p54A7493F.dip.t-dialin.net) |
| 18:21.29 | Elrond | Fjodor - fun. :) |
| 18:21.34 | Morgret | That's what we were saying earlier, that the plastic shell had better be swappable, or at least some in several shades, or the market shrinks. Some people said they wouldn't be seen dead buying the white model for example. |
| 18:22.22 | Mortimus | programming lego mindstorms in college? |
| 18:22.25 | hrw | noidd: 55? LaF0rge wrote about 50 |
| 18:22.49 | Fjodor | Mortimus: Not college. Actual university :-) |
| 18:23.11 | Mortimus | the cancer is infecting my brain |
| 18:23.12 | noidd | LaF0rge would know better than I. |
| 18:23.20 | Mortimus | tell them to learn asm |
| 18:23.27 | Fjodor | I can't remember the course name or description, but it should be fun |
| 18:23.37 | Mortimus | that will make them xplode |
| 18:23.42 | XorA | then the devs just have to hide them from any PHBs wandering around |
| 18:23.53 | noidd | I saw mickeyl talking about the processor earlier |
| 18:24.03 | noidd | I wonder how it compares to any of the Zaurii |
| 18:24.11 | XorA | noidd: SLOW!!!!!!!! |
| 18:24.22 | XorA | noidd: well approx 5500 speed |
| 18:24.57 | Mortimus | mpd would be great on that |
| 18:24.57 | Elrond | XorA - hehe. Yep. I would want to hold one in my hand, before buying. $350 is a lot for something I never have had in my hand. |
| 18:24.57 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@cpe-76-173-124-64.socal.res.rr.com) |
| 18:24.58 | Mortimus | it uses like no res |
| 18:25.07 | Elrond | mpd? |
| 18:25.09 | SpeedEvil | What's really needed for the v3: http://youtube.com/watch?v=EgiJREIYo04 Little legs. |
| 18:25.18 | Mortimus | music player daemon |
| 18:25.33 | Fjodor | Mortimus: Well, there are probably some deeper things to learn from it (and yes, they use the Java tools for programming it), but We just hear that it is a course in Lego :-) |
| 18:25.55 | Mortimus | i have to find my phone i just heard it |
| 18:26.03 | XorA | SpeedEvil: ah those irritating adverts |
| 18:26.20 | XorA | Lego rulez |
| 18:26.25 | SpeedEvil | Actual legs so it could walk across desks would be handy though. |
| 18:26.29 | marcellus | asm is overrated |
| 18:26.33 | Morgret | The Neo's S32410 is about the same speed as the CPU in the Slug, when running at its proper speed (NSLU2 is /2 underclocked): |
| 18:26.36 | noidd | 5500 speed was Ok |
| 18:26.40 | Morgret | <PROTECTED> |
| 18:26.40 | Morgret | Processor : XScale-IXP42x Family rev 1 (v5b) |
| 18:26.40 | Morgret | BogoMIPS : 132.71 |
| 18:26.48 | Morgret | Multiply x 2 |
| 18:27.36 | noidd | One of my project may be a no-go from the start then for usability reasons. |
| 18:27.42 | noidd | I'll have to dust off my Zaurii and test |
| 18:28.02 | Elrond | noidd - What did you plan? |
| 18:28.04 | Fjodor | XorA: Indeed :-) |
| 18:28.29 | Elrond | Are the 50 devs known? So we can hunt them and look at their models? |
| 18:28.48 | noidd | a set of application building modules to make it easier for non-programmers to build their own apps. |
| 18:30.26 | Mortimus | split? |
| 18:30.26 | MetaMorfoziS | a bit:) |
| 18:30.26 | Sketch | my zaurus (C3100) has an XScale-PXA270 w/ 415.33 bogomips |
| 18:30.27 | MetaMorfoziS | what is bogomips? |
| 18:30.27 | XorA | Elrond: you stalker dude :-) |
| 18:30.27 | Mortimus | ASM FORCES creativity |
| 18:30.27 | Sketch | not sure how that compares since it's a different model cpu |
| 18:30.28 | Mortimus | bogomips is just how the kernel syncs to the cpu (i think) |
| 18:30.31 | Sketch | MetaMorfoziS: a speed test of a specific loop used by the kernel (not really a good benchmark) |
| 18:30.34 | Fjodor | MetaMorfoziS: As far as I know, it is a sort of unified way to tell how much "work" a CPU can do |
| 18:30.46 | Elrond | XorA - I don't like buying stuff, I never could have taken in my hands before. |
| 18:30.47 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:30.56 | MetaMorfoziS | and what is best if its low or hi? (hi ithink?) |
| 18:30.57 | Fjodor | MetaMorfoziS: And as Sketch said, not very acurate |
| 18:31.05 | Fjodor | MetaMorfoziS: High |
| 18:31.05 | MetaMorfoziS | uhm |
| 18:31.21 | Sketch | http://tldp.org/HOWTO/BogoMips/bogo-faq.html |
| 18:32.08 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:32.22 | Elrond | Hmm, the audio for the gsm has to go through the cpu, right? |
| 18:32.58 | XorA | Elrond: go to FOSDEM |
| 18:33.52 | Elrond | XorA - Huh? |
| 18:33.55 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:34.29 | Mortimus | http://www.fosdem.org/2007/ |
| 18:34.43 | Mortimus | i think he means /\ |
| 18:35.00 | Elrond | Yeah, just found it. Belgium.... far away. |
| 18:35.15 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:35.31 | LittleIdiot | too far/expensive for me as well :/ |
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| 18:36.21 | Mortimus | anything similar for the east U.S. |
| 18:36.36 | Elrond | Oh wait. I'm on holiday at that time. ;)) |
| 18:36.55 | MetaMorfoziS | hm, bogomips is intresting |
| 18:37.01 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:37.28 | Elrond | Anyway, I'm getting home. |
| 18:37.30 | MetaMorfoziS | so if i tweak my kernel i can use this, to check the prefix of my tweak |
| 18:38.31 | LittleIdiot | bogomips is a useless value |
| 18:38.39 | Mortimus | he is right |
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| 18:38.47 | MetaMorfoziS | :/ |
| 18:39.30 | Mortimus | bogomip = needed a timing loop (the time is too short and/or needs to be too exact for a non-busy-loop method of waiting), which must be calibrated to the processor speed of the machine |
| 18:39.41 | Mortimus | thats all you need to know |
| 18:40.08 | Mortimus | used for syncing to cpu |
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| 18:42.41 | MetaMorfoziS | eh |
| 18:42.42 | MetaMorfoziS | :/ |
| 18:42.48 | MetaMorfoziS | is there a usable value? |
| 18:43.34 | MetaMorfoziS | that is usable for comparison/testing (a benchmark) |
| 18:43.38 | LittleIdiot | no. do a real benchmark. you can't compare different architectures that easily. |
| 18:43.57 | LittleIdiot | it always depends on the use case... |
| 18:44.20 | hrw | LittleIdiot: architectures is one thing. machines is second |
| 18:44.30 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:44.57 | hrw | zaurus c760 with pxa255/400 is faster then zaurus sl5600 with pxa255/400 when it comes to graphics |
| 18:45.00 | hrw | etc |
| 18:46.17 | noidd | hrw: I have a c760 and 5500. I'm guessing the neo as about the same speed as the 5500 |
| 18:46.46 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:46.59 | hrw | noidd: on desk I have 5500, 6000, 760, 3000 |
| 18:48.26 | PirateHead | LittleIdiot: I like to use Pov-Ray for benchmarks. I wonder if I can get it running on my Neo1973... and how many years it would take to render one of the standard benchmark scenes. |
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| 18:48.44 | LittleIdiot | *sigh* |
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| 18:49.46 | hrw | runniing CPU hogs on embedded platforms is useless method |
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| 18:50.32 | PirateHead | noidd: I have never understood the point of creating tools so that non-programmers can build apps. |
| 18:51.00 | PirateHead | noidd: It's tough enough to build apps when you have fine scripting control over the GUI, API, etc; as in C++ or Python. For non-programmers, things quickly become a nightmare. |
| 18:51.00 | hrw | PirateHead: do you compare speed of newest radeon to newest geforce watching 320x200 animations? |
| 18:51.31 | PirateHead | hrw: I have never owned a graphics card. Don't make me feel so inferior just because I'm poor. :-( |
| 18:52.35 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 18:52.48 | PirateHead | I don't get your point anyway though, hrw. Isn't the point of a graphics card to render in high-resolution? |
| 18:53.27 | PirateHead | pixel shaders and texture pipelines and all that hawtness? |
| 18:54.04 | hrw | PirateHead: the same comes to tortuting embedded devices with cpu hogs. embedded power is small size rather then power |
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| 18:58.19 | PirateHead | Well, if you're referring to my comment about Pov-Ray, I was kidding. Pov-Ray is too CPU and memory intensive for anything but a performance machine. |
| 18:58.32 | hrw | ;) |
| 18:58.53 | hrw | I had not so good day |
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| 18:59.58 | Psi_ | some new screengrabs here. (or at least. i've not seem them before) --> http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/01/fancy_an_open_i_1.html |
| 19:01.48 | buz | "They have borrowed code from TomTom for the SD card support and currently have all their core libraries in C. " |
| 19:01.53 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 19:02.03 | buz | so chances are tomtom might port their app to openmoko? |
| 19:02.21 | so_solid_moo | that's a bit of a leap :D |
| 19:02.50 | noidd | Users building apps is just the logical extension to customization |
| 19:02.52 | buz | well tomtom isnt linux unfriendly at least |
| 19:03.10 | so_solid_moo | buz: no, indeed, and I would think about buying tomtom for moko if they did it |
| 19:03.16 | buz | yeah me too |
| 19:03.28 | so_solid_moo | I wonder if the 1973 has all the stuff they need in hardware, though |
| 19:03.29 | buz | it would certainly give tomtom a lot of goodwill |
| 19:03.36 | buz | should have? |
| 19:03.47 | buz | touchscreen, gps, speaker all there |
| 19:03.51 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 19:03.51 | so_solid_moo | does tomtom know which direction it's pointing? |
| 19:04.00 | buz | not sure |
| 19:04.06 | buz | probably not |
| 19:04.09 | buz | it does run on pda after all |
| 19:04.26 | so_solid_moo | oh, that's true enough |
| 19:04.54 | buz | and if they're smart, they can also run it on maemo |
| 19:05.09 | b_lindeijer | TomTom knows the direction by comparing the last and the current position as far as I know. |
| 19:05.42 | b_lindeijer | But well alright, that's not the direction you're pointing... it'd need a compass for that heh. |
| 19:05.57 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 19:06.45 | so_solid_moo | b_lindeijer: having a direction when you start a journey would be useful |
| 19:06.58 | so_solid_moo | rather than setting off in a direction and seeing whether or not you were right :) |
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| 19:08.01 | b_lindeijer | so_solid_moo: Usually roads limit you quite a lot in which direction you can actually set off. :) |
| 19:08.13 | buz | well theres still the wrong one |
| 19:08.14 | buz | usually |
| 19:08.20 | so_solid_moo | right :) |
| 19:08.42 | b_lindeijer | I think TomTom already knows which way you're going after a few meters, not sure though. |
| 19:08.51 | b_lindeijer | Which would mean that from house to the road, it already can put the map in the right position. |
| 19:09.18 | b_lindeijer | Anyway, I'm just guessing so I should really just shut up about it. |
| 19:09.23 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 19:10.00 | buz | i only ever sit besides someone using it |
| 19:10.02 | buz | seems ok |
| 19:10.34 | b_lindeijer | Me too. |
| 19:10.50 | b_lindeijer | Though pretty soon, I will see Google Maps on my phone, displaying my current position. :P |
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| 19:11.54 | buz | mapswont give you directions |
| 19:12.10 | b_lindeijer | Hmm, but well Google Maps does. |
| 19:12.14 | buz | (it would still be more useful than most passengers looking at map) |
| 19:12.21 | buz | how? |
| 19:12.31 | b_lindeijer | At least on maps.google.com I can search for a route. |
| 19:12.38 | so_solid_moo | you click on the destination, and do 'route here / from here' |
| 19:12.54 | buz | mhh never seen that |
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| 19:13.03 | b_lindeijer | I think what so_solid_moo is talking about it in Google Earth. |
| 19:13.05 | b_lindeijer | is in* |
| 19:13.10 | so_solid_moo | no, it's on google maps |
| 19:13.12 | so_solid_moo | I use it. |
| 19:13.26 | buz | oh |
| 19:13.28 | buz | get directions |
| 19:13.34 | b_lindeijer | But on maps.google.com I see only "get directions" |
| 19:13.49 | buz | bunch of idiots |
| 19:13.55 | buz | they show me the place i live, but can't find it |
| 19:14.02 | hrw | maps.google.com has 'route here / from here' |
| 19:14.04 | b_lindeijer | Try also typing your country. |
| 19:14.14 | buz | well they do show it to me, name and all |
| 19:14.21 | hrw | brb |
| 19:14.27 | b_lindeijer | hrw: Ah I see now, but only after you search for a location it seems. |
| 19:14.33 | buz | but routing to it doesnt work |
| 19:14.48 | so_solid_moo | buz: their routing software isn't actually much good |
| 19:14.48 | buz | mhh between big cities it seems to work |
| 19:14.55 | so_solid_moo | at least, in the UK it comes out with rubbish routes |
| 19:14.55 | *** join/#openmoko Flusher (i=flusher@filer.euroserv.com) |
| 19:14.57 | buz | not very much |
| 19:15.19 | buz | weird |
| 19:15.25 | buz | it displays the name of the town, but can't find it |
| 19:15.29 | buz | what kind of fucked up db is this |
| 19:15.34 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@38.98.1.19) |
| 19:16.05 | goxboxlive | ~ibot |
| 19:16.19 | apt | it has been said that ibot is a blootbot written in perl run by TimRiker on his server. logs on http://ibot.rikers.org/<chan>/ , ibot, jbot, apt are all the same process. It uses sqlite, but mysql or other SQL storage is also supported. |
| 19:16.22 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 19:16.24 | b_lindeijer | Works fine for finding route from my parents to some address in the city: http://maps.google.com/maps?daddr=Viaductstraat,+9725+Groningen,+Netherlands&saddr=verlengde+vennootsweg+32,+een+west,+netherlands&f=l&sll=53.21053,6.57006&sspn=0.0078,0.025578&ie=UTF8&z=11&om=1 |
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| 19:29.16 | Elrond | BTW: How does one switch the neo on/off? |
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| 19:29.31 | loufoque | Elrond: probably with a button |
| 19:29.58 | Elrond | So one of the two buttons is gone for power ;) |
| 19:30.23 | loufoque | depends, it could have different meanings depending on how much time you keep it pressed |
| 19:30.43 | loufoque | those are just suppositions though |
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| 19:32.10 | Elrond | So to answer that question I have to wait untill feb/11? ;) |
| 19:34.32 | Zer0Her0 | i believe they stated each button had a short press and a long press |
| 19:34.41 | morricone | Elrond, probably you can reprogram them ;) |
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| 19:36.56 | Elrond | morricone - ;) |
| 19:37.18 | Elrond | So if I muck up with it, I have to remove the battery. ;o) |
| 19:41.27 | Zer0Her0 | http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/01/fancy_an_open_i_1.html |
| 19:41.38 | Zer0Her0 | are the last images from this article new or old images? |
| 19:47.24 | hrw | and are they images or mockups |
| 19:47.50 | Zer0Her0 | true, i've never seen them before, they look pretty descent. |
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| 19:53.41 | hrw|gone | cu |
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| 20:03.17 | Mortimus | adobe acrobat reader is TRASH on linux |
| 20:04.52 | Sketch | xpdf ftw |
| 20:05.04 | Mortimus | i should use that |
| 20:05.23 | Mortimus | but is there anything else that has a firefox extension |
| 20:06.25 | Sketch | doubt it |
| 20:07.18 | LittleIdiot | afaik xpdf's redering engine is exportable... writing a firefox plugin should be easy then |
| 20:08.04 | *** join/#openmoko cying (n=cying@adsl-75-44-16-131.dsl.pltn13.sbcglobal.net) |
| 20:08.56 | mitsuhiko | for me as a pdf light user evince is the best ;) |
| 20:09.22 | Mortimus | i use them only for spec sheets that i rarely go to |
| 20:09.34 | Mortimus | its nice to have them open within firefox |
| 20:09.46 | Mortimus | instead of having another window to lose |
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| 20:13.27 | *** join/#openmoko mitsuhiko (n=blackbir@hammett.srv.pocoo.org) |
| 20:16.55 | Mortimus | i just realized how slow this thing might be |
| 20:17.48 | SpeedEvil | I get the impression P100 is about the right aimpoit. |
| 20:17.54 | SpeedEvil | Aimpoint. |
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| 20:23.58 | Zer0Her0 | as in pentium 100? |
| 20:25.26 | *** join/#openmoko guerby (n=guerby@gut75-4-82-235-162-148.fbx.proxad.net) |
| 20:25.30 | SpeedEvil | Yes |
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| 20:34.27 | noidd | counter |
| 20:34.27 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 03:25:32 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 20:34.44 | Mortimus | that always give me a laugh |
| 20:46.08 | noidd | what, the counter borg? |
| 20:49.10 | *** part/#openmoko bprice20 (n=brandon@216.120.224.199) |
| 20:49.16 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44bf24.adsl.enternet.hu) |
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| 20:50.24 | MetaBookfoziS | hola |
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| 20:58.43 | Mortimus | what is the use of an accelerometer inside a phone? |
| 20:59.07 | Mortimus | i don't think i would use a phone for physics class |
| 20:59.35 | MDK | Mortimus: games? auto-screen rotation? |
| 20:59.58 | Sketch | perhaps navigation, combined with gps |
| 21:00.06 | Mortimus | ok got it |
| 21:00.33 | cjb | Dasher (dasher.org.uk) can write at 15wpm using an accelerometer. So, that's a huge deal if you don't have a keyboard on the device. |
| 21:01.17 | SpeedEvil | If it's small enough, you can use it like a pen. |
| 21:01.33 | SpeedEvil | And use the accellerometer to decode the normal writing motions. |
| 21:01.45 | RevTig | I would hate to try doing that on the trains around here |
| 21:01.49 | cjb | yow, that sounds hard to use. |
| 21:01.50 | RevTig | :) |
| 21:01.54 | cjb | but fun. |
| 21:03.02 | RevTig | TBH one use for an accellerometer for me would be to turn the alarm off in the morning :) just shake it untill it shuts up :) |
| 21:03.06 | SpeedEvil | It works better for logging actual pens. |
| 21:03.14 | MDK | RevTig: that would be cool |
| 21:03.25 | SpeedEvil | Or throw it against the wall. |
| 21:03.45 | RevTig | at $350 I would have to pad the wall :) |
| 21:04.06 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - it'd be nice to have actual phones that you can throw against the wall. |
| 21:04.34 | SpeedEvil | Or even a decent 'robustness' standard. |
| 21:04.59 | RevTig | It did also occur to me what to do with a gen one device when the gen two and three versions come out (hopefully) and I think I know what I will do with my gen one (assuming I can get one before the sell out) |
| 21:05.01 | Mortimus | rubber 'baby' buggy bumpers |
| 21:05.03 | SpeedEvil | drop in random orientations at various heights onto concrete, and report the failure. Repeat with carpet. |
| 21:05.11 | RevTig | I will wire it into the car :) |
| 21:05.28 | SpeedEvil | I've done interesting thigs with that. |
| 21:05.38 | SpeedEvil | Take 2 USB el-cheapo mice. |
| 21:05.41 | Mortimus | oh this could be use to get out of supporting the device |
| 21:05.47 | SpeedEvil | 8 hall effect sensors, and some magnets. |
| 21:05.57 | SpeedEvil | This gives you 4 wheel position and rotation sensors. |
| 21:06.01 | Mortimus | because it can log drops |
| 21:06.04 | SpeedEvil | With integrated counters. |
| 21:06.05 | Mortimus | and abuse |
| 21:06.32 | SpeedEvil | And you get 6 or so inputs, all nearly free. |
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| 21:08.35 | RevTig | this may sound like an odd question but I can't see it in the mailing lists unless I have missed something... where abouts is the USB socket on the NEO ? |
| 21:09.15 | Mortimus | as in where it is located |
| 21:09.15 | RevTig | because if it was bottom centre then it would be trivial to make a dock like device for it |
| 21:09.27 | SpeedEvil | I can't see that either. |
| 21:09.31 | Mortimus | a dock would be nice |
| 21:09.32 | RevTig | yes. we know it is on there but where :) |
| 21:09.49 | RevTig | if it is at the bottom then all you need is a USB cable and a guide |
| 21:10.01 | SpeedEvil | And I'm interested for slightly different reasons - can I make something that clamps onto the base of the phone, plugs into the socket, and exposes a new socket. |
| 21:10.15 | SpeedEvil | For added hardware. |
| 21:10.45 | RevTig | well would that not be the same as the dock but going straight into a powered USB hub? |
| 21:10.54 | Mortimus | developer dock! |
| 21:11.03 | RevTig | or are you on about something for on the move? |
| 21:11.06 | Mortimus | that would be awesome |
| 21:11.08 | SpeedEvil | No - camera, hampster-wheel power addition, ... |
| 21:11.39 | RevTig | I am not a USB or hardware expert but isn't USB DC? |
| 21:11.44 | SpeedEvil | Yes. |
| 21:11.56 | SpeedEvil | 5V +-10% nominal. |
| 21:12.13 | RevTig | if so can't we just with a bit of splicing and some diodes create a USB power injector? |
| 21:12.21 | *** join/#openmoko tr2x (n=alvar@80-218-185-55.dclient.hispeed.ch) |
| 21:12.26 | SpeedEvil | For what? |
| 21:12.32 | RevTig | so a sort of USB cable that you can connect a battery pack to |
| 21:12.42 | *** join/#openmoko MetaBookfoziS (n=sajt@3e44bf24.adsl.enternet.hu) |
| 21:12.47 | SpeedEvil | It's simpler - you just need to take off the power wire. |
| 21:12.55 | SpeedEvil | and connect it to a +5V source |
| 21:13.21 | SpeedEvil | The hard part is for mobile stuff that you want to shut off. |
| 21:13.27 | mjr | yeah, people have done it for the nokia 770 |
| 21:13.38 | SpeedEvil | As you need some way for the phone to turn the device off. |
| 21:13.42 | RevTig | so 4 AAA batteries strapped to the back of the USB wifi dongle :) |
| 21:13.59 | SpeedEvil | It's probably 1li-ion AAA cell, and a switching regulator. |
| 21:15.18 | MetaBookfoziS | RevTig > you can buy in the local hacker store wery small, poerfull and nice accumulators, that output is 6volt |
| 21:15.33 | RevTig | oo :) |
| 21:15.35 | MetaBookfoziS | and a simple voltage reducer or how it spelled ic |
| 21:15.40 | SpeedEvil | Regulator. |
| 21:15.44 | RevTig | hang on, where, I am in the UK :) |
| 21:15.45 | MetaBookfoziS | ^ yep |
| 21:15.48 | SpeedEvil | The hard part is getting it light ans small. |
| 21:15.57 | SpeedEvil | And ideally charging over USB. |
| 21:16.50 | MetaBookfoziS | http://www.varta-microbattery.com/en/oempages/index.htm |
| 21:16.52 | MetaBookfoziS | lol! |
| 21:16.54 | SpeedEvil | And cheap. |
| 21:16.58 | RevTig | http://www.usbcell.com/ <-- ok they are AA but.... |
| 21:16.59 | MetaBookfoziS | check the technology selectbox:D |
| 21:18.52 | *** join/#openmoko anselm (n=anselm@64.71.151.167) |
| 21:25.18 | Morgret | The Neo's got an accelerometer? Hehe, fun. Pity it doesn't have 3, then we could use it like the Wiimote :P |
| 21:25.44 | Zer0Her0 | it has bluetooth |
| 21:25.48 | Zer0Her0 | just pair it with a wiimote ) |
| 21:25.49 | Zer0Her0 | ;) |
| 21:27.14 | Morgret | Integration. You don't want to carry additional gadgets around with you. |
| 21:27.56 | mikesh | hi, do somebody know, it screenshots in this article are real? |
| 21:27.56 | mikesh | http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/01/fancy_an_open_i_1.html |
| 21:28.05 | Zer0Her0 | haha |
| 21:28.09 | Zer0Her0 | i asked this earlier |
| 21:29.03 | mikesh | and get some answer? |
| 21:29.36 | Zer0Her0 | no :( |
| 21:29.39 | mikesh | :/ |
| 21:29.39 | *** join/#openmoko zipola (n=zipola@zip.kortex.jyu.fi) |
| 21:29.51 | Zer0Her0 | the top are the same pics that have been around, the bottom ones are new to me. |
| 21:29.54 | Morgret | Real photos in marketting images? Give over. That would get you disbarred from the Marketting Guild. |
| 21:30.43 | mikesh | Morgret: i mean screenshots |
| 21:31.01 | *** join/#openmoko dougt (n=chatzill@c-67-188-65-30.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:31.40 | RevTig | I suspect those screenshots are mockups as they include what looks to be a wifi indicator |
| 21:32.03 | *** join/#openmoko bkuhn (n=bkuhn@fsf/member/bkuhn/bkuhn) |
| 21:32.20 | Zer0Her0 | that's actually what got my interest originally in the shot. |
| 21:33.06 | stefan_schmidt | I'm pretty sure this are mock-ups |
| 21:34.38 | Morgret | Does FIC manufacture a PDA based on the same SoC? Or a phone, but a traditional closed one? |
| 21:34.50 | buz | i think i read a dev complaining about the marketers giving out mockups |
| 21:35.01 | buz | Morgret: a winmobile phone |
| 21:35.21 | buz | using the very same hardware |
| 21:35.27 | Morgret | Aha |
| 21:35.46 | buz | which i presume, is paying for the hardware development |
| 21:36.17 | stefan_schmidt | buz: Mock_ups are good and bad. Good for giving a vision of the style and bad for being unable to do all these fancy things by programing. :) |
| 21:36.32 | buz | not judging any mockups |
| 21:36.38 | buz | (tho i just hate orange) |
| 21:36.44 | Morgret | Oh, be more generous: they consume less power. :P |
| 21:37.12 | buz | somehow, i don't really see the market for a winmobile phone like that |
| 21:37.18 | buz | but that's just me |
| 21:37.32 | stefan_schmidt | buz: Then you have to create a new theme. The default theme and color of openmoko will be orange and grey :) |
| 21:37.34 | buz | ok the vga screen is still very rare |
| 21:38.01 | buz | if i could chose, i want a totally black neo |
| 21:38.44 | Morgret | I hope they get the marketting right in September, appealing to the right audience. Eg. it's the ridiculous things that will appeal to the masses, eg: "Download Free Ringtones Forever!" |
| 21:39.01 | buz | Morgret: you cant do that legally |
| 21:39.22 | buz | (besides there's tons of phones that can do that, my nearly 4year old p900 sure can use mp3 as ringtones) |
| 21:39.30 | Morgret | Marketting has never been constrained by logic nor legalities :P |
| 21:39.51 | buz | maybe not logic but legalities usually |
| 21:40.19 | Morgret | So what? All marketting makes claims that they're the first and doing something novel. You're thinking logically and sensibly. That doesn't apply in marketting ;-) |
| 21:40.41 | buz | there's a difference between lying and outright breaking the law, obviously |
| 21:41.04 | buz | then again, if you could possibly have a 7pt disclaimer pointing towards CC |
| 21:41.27 | Morgret | Not really, because the claim of "forever" is easily defended by FIC lawyers as meaning "For the lifetime of the product cycle". |
| 21:42.51 | buz | forever is not the problem |
| 21:43.04 | buz | getting the mp3 would be |
| 21:43.15 | *** part/#openmoko dougt (n=chatzill@c-67-188-65-30.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 21:43.21 | buz | then again, make it "Use all YOUR mp3" as ringtones |
| 21:43.41 | noidd | nice images on http://radar.oreilly.com/archives/2007/01/fancy_an_open_i_1.html |
| 21:43.42 | noidd | btw |
| 21:43.56 | Morgret | There are tons of copyright-free songs suitable for ringtones. And if MP3 is still encumbered, make them oggs. |
| 21:45.20 | buz | as for mp3, with a 350$ phone one would think fic could afford the license |
| 21:45.41 | benJIman | There are issues with GPLed software and patents |
| 21:45.58 | benJIman | Has to be licenced so that the licence applies to the distribution of your distributees |
| 21:47.03 | buz | then just dont put mp3 codec under the gpl |
| 21:47.23 | benJIman | The whole point of the openmoko is to be completely open |
| 21:47.27 | Morgret | That would then be out of character with the stated policy. |
| 21:47.46 | buz | then better remove the agpsd at once |
| 21:47.50 | Morgret | Indeed. If you want a non-open phone, but FIC's Win-based one |
| 21:48.15 | buz | see there's ideals and there's reality |
| 21:48.42 | Elrond | I hope for agpsd to be replaced by an open one once. |
| 21:48.43 | buz | (personally i live in a country where mp3 codecs need not be licensed anyhow) |
| 21:49.06 | Morgret | Don't even need the 'A' bit, plain RF GPS works fine |
| 21:49.21 | buz | Morgret: dont be so sure about that |
| 21:49.28 | buz | AFAIK, the whole processing is done on the hostcpu |
| 21:49.32 | buz | not in the global locate chip |
| 21:50.28 | Elrond | Still, a free gpsd would be nice. |
| 21:51.32 | Morgret | Afair, even the agps code was open, but just not GPL. |
| 21:52.35 | Morgret | After all, that's the reason they couldn't go with any Wifi chipset ... they refused to run closed code on the host SoC. |
| 21:52.58 | buz | yeah i think its kinda hypocritical myself |
| 21:53.22 | nbd | i think it's a good thing that they refused closed wifi drivers |
| 21:53.23 | buz | then again wifi driver would likely run in kernel space |
| 21:53.41 | Morgret | In what way? If the boundary line of policy is open vs closed source, they've succeeded, even if not pure GPL. |
| 21:53.52 | nbd | as openwrt developer i know how much of a pain in the ass closed source wifi drivers are |
| 21:54.14 | buz | oh you're the QoS guy? |
| 21:54.59 | nbd | i did some work on that, yes, but most of my work is kernel and build system stuff |
| 21:55.11 | buz | QoS never worked for me |
| 21:55.17 | buz | then again i dont really need it either way ;)= |
| 21:55.29 | buz | (it did work on sveasoft's evil stuff) |
| 21:55.49 | buz | anyway, thanks for making a great router ;) |
| 21:59.49 | Morgret | Has any phone manufacturer come out with an induction-based charger yet, like toothbrushes? |
| 22:00.01 | benJIman | Morgret: non-GPL kernel modules are different, they're actually violating copyright, not just ethical concerns |
| 22:00.04 | buz | dont think so |
| 22:00.41 | Morgret | benJIman: and even worse, they're violating one's confidence in the security of one's machine. |
| 22:02.39 | anselm | fwiw my friend theo runs openbsd and has a hell of a time with closed source codecs... he's had to make policy to not allow them at all in his distro. |
| 22:04.03 | FirefighterBlu3 | i think most everyone knows theo :) |
| 22:05.39 | anselm | openbsd is not as vogue as other distro's i suppose; but the hardline seems to help them avoid being surprised in ways that have affected linux; with some security and licensing issues that caused problems |
| 22:05.52 | anselm | overall it seems like trying to hold to an ideal is best anyway... |
| 22:05.52 | RevTig | OpenBSD is not a disto.... it is a full OS |
| 22:06.08 | anselm | yes i appreciate that; i didn't know the level of expertise here. |
| 22:06.37 | RevTig | assume geeks :) |
| 22:06.40 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel (n=daniel@206-72-65-12.dsl.dock.net) |
| 22:06.41 | anselm | heh |
| 22:07.02 | Elrond | anselm - Except that stayng very hard to the ideals, makes one frustrated from time to time. |
| 22:08.14 | RevTig | I totally agree |
| 22:08.28 | anselm | are there really no totally free mp3 codecs? |
| 22:08.39 | LittleIdiot | ogg |
| 22:08.58 | RevTig | I think it is a legal question not a software question but I am not an expert |
| 22:09.00 | FirefighterBlu3 | mp3 isn't free |
| 22:09.07 | anselm | sigh |
| 22:09.13 | FirefighterBlu3 | common, but not technically free |
| 22:09.25 | noidd | btw - there is more info about the agps on the list today |
| 22:09.31 | Elrond | That's, why ogg was created. |
| 22:09.32 | noidd | the A part of the GPS can be disabled |
| 22:09.36 | *** join/#openmoko rob__w (n=bob@p85.212.129.30.tisdip.tiscali.de) |
| 22:09.56 | noidd | I don't know if you still need the closed source daemon after your disable it - but you should be able to ask. |
| 22:09.57 | LittleIdiot | sorray, ogg + vorbis ;) |
| 22:10.03 | Elrond | noidd - Good news. |
| 22:10.17 | LittleIdiot | ogg is just a container |
| 22:10.28 | Elrond | Yeah, we know ;) |
| 22:10.32 | RevTig | LittleIdiot, I was going to be pedantic about that but decided against it :) |
| 22:11.29 | RevTig | I think that MP3 and it's market penetration is quite similar to GIFs really |
| 22:11.48 | Elrond | RevTig - Right. |
| 22:12.25 | SpeedEvil | gif is (now) free tho |
| 22:12.34 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@206-72-65-12.dsl.dock.net) |
| 22:12.38 | RevTig | I am not convinced that there is enough momentum to unseat Mp3 audio with a technically superior and free alternative |
| 22:13.00 | RevTig | oh yes gif is now free, pngs still don't rule the earth though |
| 22:13.17 | Elrond | RevTig - Yep. As with gif/png. |
| 22:13.33 | RevTig | PITA though :) |
| 22:13.38 | Elrond | The average customer does not care about licensing. We have to. |
| 22:15.38 | Elrond | patenting file formats is sooo un-ethical. |
| 22:15.40 | RevTig | also we have to look at licensing in a global context |
| 22:15.51 | SpeedEvil | Is ogg lower in CPU on smalll hardware? |
| 22:16.01 | Elrond | RevTig - Yp. |
| 22:16.22 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - Probably comparable. |
| 22:16.43 | RevTig | SpeedEvil, I think it is also to do with the level of compression too |
| 22:16.53 | Elrond | SpeedEvil - mp3 has been put into fixed hardware by now. That's, why people love it. ogg/vorbis has not. |
| 22:16.57 | RevTig | more compression means more processing time when decoding |
| 22:17.42 | RevTig | yep and it has got into chipsets that don't always pay all the royalties :) |
| 22:18.08 | Elrond | There's some little hope for ogg/vorbis: The newer pocket-usb-stick-music-players support it. |
| 22:21.15 | RevTig | it depends on market, I have not seen many of them in the UK anymore :( |
| 22:21.23 | SpeedEvil | On my pii/300/mplayer |
| 22:22.03 | SpeedEvil | http://xiph.org/vorbis/listen.html the mid-bitrate samples take about twice aslong to decpde as ogg |
| 22:23.22 | SpeedEvil | with ogg |
| 22:23.39 | RevTig | I stand corrected. I was thinking of various reports I had seen where ogg was using increased processing and reducing battery life, thinking about it now it never stated if mp3 decoding was being done on chip or in software, I suspect the former... |
| 22:24.29 | so_solid_moo | there are a number of ogg decoders |
| 22:24.35 | so_solid_moo | the fixed point arith one is more recent |
| 22:24.59 | SpeedEvil | not recent here. |
| 22:25.30 | so_solid_moo | I didn't say it was recent. |
| 22:25.54 | SpeedEvil | I know, this mplayer is 2006 mid I think |
| 22:26.43 | RevTig | I think the general point is that mp3 is encumbered and ogg vorbis is as effective and open when run under the same rules :) |
| 22:28.20 | RevTig | as a side note, I think an interesting hardware point is what happens when the markets gets this stuff on chipsets.... there was a press release in the UK today about one of the supermarkets selling a DVD player for £9 or about $15? ish |
| 22:28.21 | so_solid_moo | right, and encumbered for a few years yet, not matter (much) where you live |
| 22:28.41 | RevTig | 25 usd |
| 22:28.44 | RevTig | 15 usd |
| 22:28.46 | RevTig | even |
| 22:29.15 | SpeedEvil | It's closer to $17 with current exchange rates. But silly. |
| 22:29.37 | RevTig | I was winging the exchange rate :) |
| 22:29.46 | RevTig | but yes very silly |
| 22:30.37 | RevTig | somehow I suspect they are not paying all the royalty fees to all the relevant technology groups :) |
| 22:32.13 | *** join/#openmoko Sum1 (n=Sum1@80.175.142.81) |
| 22:35.59 | mjr | apparently benefon has a "Twig" GPS phone with Linux on the market, for around 500 euro, presumably closed |
| 22:36.12 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@206-72-65-12.dsl.dock.net) |
| 22:36.31 | Morgret | Well there's no doubt that more and more gadgets are using open source. And when they do, ogg gets added naturally ... so I think ogg will become more common just because FOSS is. |
| 22:36.57 | noidd | I agree with Morgret |
| 22:37.11 | mjr | which reminds me, has nokia added official ogg support for maemo? :] |
| 22:37.14 | SpeedEvil | The A1200 is based on linux. |
| 22:37.20 | SpeedEvil | But you can't do anything with it |
| 22:37.45 | RevTig | I agree, odd though this sounds the mobile market could be the biggest driving force for OGG/Vorbis and potentially Theora |
| 22:38.09 | RevTig | as the users are resigned to incompatable ringtones and videos |
| 22:38.42 | *** join/#openmoko Administrator_ (n=chatzill@p57A0813D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 22:38.54 | RevTig | so having a free, sharable and high quality format could be a big selling point |
| 22:40.00 | SpeedEvil | When does the mp3 patents run out? |
| 22:40.07 | benJIman | 2010 iirc |
| 22:40.13 | benJIman | so not long now |
| 22:41.51 | mickeyl | sounds like we should do a processing and battery benchmark w/ ogg vs. mp3 |
| 22:41.55 | mickeyl | that's what I like with the Neo... we can actually do that once the device is in developer's hands |
| 22:41.55 | *** join/#openmoko T3 (n=tv@206-72-65-12.dsl.dock.net) |
| 22:41.59 | nbd | imho when decoding ogg is easier on the hardware than mp3 |
| 22:41.59 | *** join/#openmoko thedaniel_ (n=daniel@206-72-65-12.dsl.dock.net) |
| 22:42.03 | nbd | but i guess the benchmarks will show |
| 22:42.17 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 22:42.24 | mickeyl | ogg would at least save a bit of flash |
| 22:42.26 | Morgret | Re OGG, there's another issue that's driving it now, a funny one: Shoutcast dropped free support for any streams at rates higher than 128k, which means that the great 192k MP3 streams all disappeared instantly on Jan 1st 2007. But 128k OGG is far better than 128k MP3, so it's gaining ground. |
| 22:42.34 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: We need a big todo list for all devs to take care about :) |
| 22:42.44 | SpeedEvil | Yeah - it depends on the hardware. The several tests I did said the other thing for the closest processor I have - PII/300 |
| 22:42.47 | LittleIdiot | i'd love to have the giana sisters theme as ringtone ;) |
| 22:42.56 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: we have a gazillion bugs in our bugzilla -- once it gets public it will probably get flooded :)) |
| 22:42.57 | mjr | dunno... ogg has seemed a bit heavier, but I don't know how things go with the usual fixed point codecs |
| 22:43.20 | alphaone | mickeyl: Do you already have sounds and ringtones and stuff? |
| 22:43.23 | mjr | Morgret, curious |
| 22:43.28 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Indeed bugzilla should be good for tracking things down |
| 22:43.33 | mjr | but yeah, it is better, and good for ogg, then |
| 22:43.45 | Morgret | mickeyl: well make it public and we can do something. At the moment we can only annoy, lol ;-) |
| 22:43.52 | mickeyl | alphaone: no. XorA and LaF0rge could get the audio subsystem to work for the very first time this week ;) |
| 22:44.08 | mickeyl | Morgret: you're welcome :) |
| 22:44.15 | Morgret | Hehe |
| 22:44.17 | mickeyl | I know that i would do the same if i were in your position :) |
| 22:44.30 | mickeyl | geek toy, even |
| 22:44.39 | alphaone | mickeyl: The guy who did the music for supertux lives with me in the dorm and we would like to make sounds if it is wanted. |
| 22:44.59 | noidd | mickeyl: do you know the colours that are available yet in the phone? |
| 22:45.03 | alphaone | s/we/he/ |
| 22:45.06 | mickeyl | alphaone: cool, why not. I'm a musician as well, but I probably won't have time for such a task |
| 22:45.21 | mickeyl | noidd: i know, but i dunno whether i'm allowed to tell :) |
| 22:45.37 | RevTig | tease :) |
| 22:45.46 | mickeyl | seriously, by now you should expect orange/white, of course. |
| 22:45.51 | mickeyl | it's a global theme |
| 22:45.52 | LittleIdiot | by the way... a great wakeup tone would be my girlfriend saying "darling, i'm pregnant!" |
| 22:45.56 | mickeyl | look at the planet and the screenshot |
| 22:45.59 | noidd | I would love all black... |
| 22:46.02 | noidd | but I'm biased :-) |
| 22:46.04 | SpeedEvil | I keep losing my mobile if it's not brightly coloured. |
| 22:46.05 | mickeyl | but i think there is also something for us gothic lovers |
| 22:46.07 | Morgret | Lettuce green with orange polka dots please |
| 22:46.13 | Morgret | j/k |
| 22:46.29 | noidd | 15 days to source release |
| 22:46.34 | noidd | Oh, I remember what I needed to ask you |
| 22:46.49 | *** join/#openmoko terrex (n=terrex@84-122-63-17.onocable.ono.com) |
| 22:47.05 | noidd | The Gtk apps mickeyl - should we make our root container a GtkWindow of size 480x640? |
| 22:47.12 | Morgret | As long as there's more than one colour, should be OK. Some people seem to be highly averse to white, that's the only complaint I've heard. |
| 22:47.29 | mjr | there's btw an article in the finnish it week magazine on nokia saying that gps is the future moboile phone killer app, so fic isn't alone in that regard ;] |
| 22:47.35 | *** join/#openmoko _rob (n=rob@ACB71E6D.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:47.35 | mjr | (in addition to benefon, already mentioned) |
| 22:47.38 | noidd | I'm guessing one of the openmoko widgets is inherited from GtkWindow and just swap to that on relase ? |
| 22:47.47 | Morgret | mjr: oh that's nice |
| 22:49.01 | mickeyl | noidd: you can do that to get an idea of what size you can expect. it's actually less vertically because you have to subtract the top panel and footer. |
| 22:49.11 | mickeyl | oh, and set the stock font size to |
| 22:49.12 | alphaone | mickeyl: Does the CI of the phone call for some certain theme for the music? |
| 22:49.13 | mickeyl | hold on... |
| 22:49.21 | *** join/#openmoko wansti (n=wansti@b062.apm.etc.tu-bs.de) |
| 22:49.24 | mickeyl | alphaone: don't think so |
| 22:49.33 | wansti | hi |
| 22:49.49 | alphaone | hi wansti |
| 22:50.04 | mickeyl | noidd: font_name = "Vera Sans 16" |
| 22:50.10 | alphaone | mickeyl: wansti ist who knows music :-) |
| 22:50.16 | mickeyl | heya |
| 22:50.17 | alphaone | I just enjoy it :-) |
| 22:50.26 | wansti | :-) |
| 22:50.28 | wansti | hey |
| 22:50.29 | alphaone | is the guy even |
| 22:50.45 | mickeyl | how about you look at the screenshots and let yourself be inspired |
| 22:50.50 | mickeyl | cool would be |
| 22:50.51 | Morgret | I saw the H/V panning in the S32410 spec, but didn't notice orientation flipping menioned. Can the h/w do that? |
| 22:50.52 | mickeyl | one ring tone |
| 22:50.54 | mickeyl | one alarm tone |
| 22:50.57 | mickeyl | one incoming sms tone |
| 22:50.59 | mickeyl | :) |
| 22:51.13 | Elrond | So it can handle sms? |
| 22:51.13 | wansti | mickeyl: sounds good |
| 22:51.15 | mjr | one tone to rule them all |
| 22:51.37 | mickeyl | Morgret: nope. if we want it we need to go xrandr. but given the s3c2410's speed we should forget that right now :/ |
| 22:51.43 | mjr | I should hope it can handle sms :) |
| 22:51.45 | mickeyl | Elrond: of course. it's a phone |
| 22:51.47 | wansti | how long should they be? and what'll the speakers be capable of? |
| 22:51.56 | Morgret | mickeyl: righto |
| 22:52.02 | pjz | I thought the x server could do orientatino flipping |
| 22:52.09 | Elrond | mickeyl - It's a geek toy, no? ;) |
| 22:52.25 | mickeyl | wansti: well, i guess around 15 seconds max for ring and alarm, 5 seconds for sms would be ok |
| 22:52.32 | mickeyl | the speakers are 1w "stereo" |
| 22:52.37 | mickeyl | but probably no hifi ;) |
| 22:52.44 | wansti | heh, okay |
| 22:52.51 | mickeyl | we can use 16bit/32Khz probably |
| 22:52.57 | pjz | I wonder how much electrostatic speakers would cost |
| 22:52.58 | mickeyl | don't think we can hear 44.1 |
| 22:53.03 | Morgret | What? Not hifi??? Oh I'm definitely not buying it then .... ;-)))))) |
| 22:53.04 | mickeyl | Elrond: right |
| 22:53.07 | mjr | what, no hifi? |
| 22:53.13 | pjz | could put in some huge electrostatic speakers on the back or something |
| 22:53.16 | mjr | (echo) |
| 22:53.44 | pjz | XxorAxAx: you should be able to - there's a headphone jack, right? |
| 22:53.50 | xorAxAx | in order to catch the younger people as potential customers, the speakers have to loud |
| 22:53.52 | Elrond | mickeyl - But as there is not text entry, I can't write an sms, right? ;) |
| 22:54.01 | xorAxAx | pjz: yes, but i want 96 KHz, 24 bit, stereo :) |
| 22:54.03 | mickeyl | Elrond: umpf... right. not yet :/ |
| 22:54.05 | wansti | okay... i'll try to make one or two original ringtones at least, and i'm pretty sure i won't be able to resist making a SuperTux ringtone :-) |
| 22:54.13 | mickeyl | Elrond: you can scp text files over to the phone ;) |
| 22:54.16 | pjz | xorAxAx: is the headphone jack not stereo!? |
| 22:54.25 | *** join/#openmoko Kerberos (n=Kerberos@207.248.51.46) |
| 22:54.26 | pjz | xorAxAx: oh, wait! Bluetooth! |
| 22:54.36 | noidd | pjz: X11 flipping is xrandr |
| 22:54.44 | xorAxAx | pjz: stereo is not an issue, the sampling rate and depth is |
| 22:54.50 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase_ (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 22:54.50 | Elrond | mickeyl - It runs sshd? And I would do IP via bt or usb? |
| 22:54.57 | noidd | mickeyl: UI wise, should application devs try to stick to one fullsize window? |
| 22:55.04 | tchuladdiass | Elrond: the phone has 2 buttons, so either enter text in binary or in morse code. |
| 22:55.05 | stefan_schmidt | Elrond: both |
| 22:55.07 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@pool-72-93-172-89.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 22:55.09 | noidd | mickey: ie - avoid dialogue windows etc |
| 22:55.30 | Elrond | tchuladdiass - *lol* |
| 22:55.37 | mickeyl | Elrond: both ways will work sooner or later |
| 22:55.42 | LittleIdiot | is the "audio jack" just for headphones or can plug a microphone into it? |
| 22:56.09 | Morgret | Sound will be as hifi as the audio DAC on chip allows at the earphone socket, unless some mistake's got into the analogue circuit coming off the SoC. Use good headphones, it should be hifi enough. |
| 22:56.17 | noidd | mjr: I've been toying with the idea of building a bluetooth enabled "keyboard" which is really an iambic paddle :-D |
| 22:56.20 | mickeyl | noidd: yeah. it's a phone really. for most apps one main window and (few) full screen dialogs should do. we have classes that define the common look&feel (together with the theme) for main window and full screen modal dialogs |
| 22:56.36 | noidd | mjr: so I'm right with you. 40wpm input with a fingerheld paddle |
| 22:56.51 | Morgret | noidd: old radio hams will love you :PP |
| 22:57.19 | noidd | mickeyl: Those classes I'm guessing are derived from GtkWindow etc so I can write my app now and just switch them out and the inheritance will do (mostly) the right thing? |
| 22:57.36 | *** join/#openmoko PirateHead (n=piratehe@AC84ED11.ipt.aol.com) |
| 22:57.47 | noidd | Morgret: THere is a reason I just threw $100 at a PIC programming kit and components |
| 22:58.02 | Morgret | noidd: haha, good use for it |
| 22:58.29 | mickeyl | noidd: not quite, i.e. mainwindow derived from GtkVPaned to recreate our common 4 part look&feel |
| 22:58.32 | Morgret | Athough getting a Bluetooth stack into a PIC will be a challange |
| 22:58.35 | mickeyl | 1.) menubox |
| 22:58.41 | mickeyl | 2.) navigation window |
| 22:58.44 | mickeyl | 3.) tool bar |
| 22:58.46 | mickeyl | 4.) details window |
| 22:58.54 | mickeyl | navigation window often containing a tree view or what not |
| 22:59.02 | mickeyl | details window containing info about the selected entity |
| 22:59.08 | mickeyl | that concept works for a whole lot of apps |
| 22:59.12 | mickeyl | consistently |
| 22:59.49 | Elrond | mickeyl - Bad apps can use the full screen, if they want to? ;) |
| 23:00.19 | Morgret | Hehe, look'n'feel will go out the window after a few cycles of FOSS scratching personal itches. |
| 23:00.21 | Elrond | counter |
| 23:00.21 | aloril | 2 weeks, 2 days 00:59:38 for source availability and devices for selected developers (2007-02-11); 1 month, 2 weeks for any developers (2007-03-11); 7 months, 2 weeks, 4 days for mass market (2007-09-11) |
| 23:00.27 | mickeyl | Elrond: well, you can convince matchbox to overlap the docks, yes |
| 23:00.35 | mickeyl | full screen is probably important for SDL stuff |
| 23:00.53 | Elrond | I want my mapp fullscreen. ;o) |
| 23:01.00 | mjr | yesyes, give me my full screen video (even if it's crappy due to cpu limitations) |
| 23:01.07 | mickeyl | heh |
| 23:01.07 | Morgret | Do you have SDL ported to it? |
| 23:01.09 | mickeyl | you will enjoy 1fps ? |
| 23:01.18 | mickeyl | not much to port, really |
| 23:01.24 | mickeyl | but we need to adapt it |
| 23:01.30 | mickeyl | or else you won't get "back" from a SDL fullscreen app |
| 23:01.34 | mickeyl | remember... no buttons |
| 23:01.47 | mjr | righto |
| 23:01.53 | tchuladdiass | maybe this would be a good place to use guestures? |
| 23:02.03 | mickeyl | uh oh |
| 23:02.05 | Morgret | Non-glacial FPS will be a challange. But hey, that's the fun of it. |
| 23:02.05 | mjr | "guesture" |
| 23:02.06 | mickeyl | have fun teaching that to x11 |
| 23:02.07 | mjr | nice word |
| 23:02.19 | tchuladdiass | to get back from sdl full screen |
| 23:02.21 | *** join/#openmoko cyphase_ (n=cyphase@c-71-202-49-23.hsd1.ca.comcast.net) |
| 23:02.25 | noidd | So, if I give the window manager the hint maximise - will it fot between the top menu and the status bar ? |
| 23:02.39 | noidd | or overlap the whole thing? |
| 23:03.02 | mjr | Morgret, would be easier if the hw could scale evenjust a qvga fb onto the full screen... |
| 23:03.18 | mickeyl | noidd: you will be able to try all that in Xoo soon |
| 23:03.25 | mickeyl | dunno exactly |
| 23:03.34 | mickeyl | or check matchbox now |
| 23:03.36 | Elrond | "Xoo"? |
| 23:03.41 | mickeyl | Xoo is my preferred devel tool atm. |
| 23:03.49 | mickeyl | "poor man's device emulator" |
| 23:03.52 | mickeyl | see o-hand / projectx |
| 23:03.54 | mickeyl | projects, even |
| 23:04.53 | tchuladdiass | mickeyl: would it be possible to teache gestures to sdl, instead of x11? |
| 23:05.05 | noidd | are you writing in native and then cross-compile |
| 23:05.33 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 23:05.33 | noidd | or using an arm emulator? |
| 23:05.37 | mickeyl | both |
| 23:05.42 | mickeyl | regularly using qemu |
| 23:05.46 | mickeyl | most of the time using xoo |
| 23:05.48 | mickeyl | on x86 |
| 23:05.53 | mickeyl | tchuladdiass: no idea, frankly |
| 23:06.14 | noidd | I've not settled on one method over the other yet |
| 23:06.44 | stefan_schmidt | heh, 'ask mickeyl' hour. :) |
| 23:06.46 | pjz | I was going to ask if there's an openmoko emulator yet |
| 23:07.02 | mickeyl | stefan_schmidt: indeed. i almost have no chance to do some developmet :D |
| 23:07.28 | *** join/#openmoko andymk (n=andy@adsl-static-1-193.uklinux.net) |
| 23:07.28 | noidd | don't let sean hear you say that :-P |
| 23:07.33 | mickeyl | *cough* |
| 23:07.54 | noidd | I'm guessing sean doesn't hang out here because he knows he's going to be barraged with questions that he doesn't want (or can't) answer :-) |
| 23:08.02 | wansti | hmm... it's not exactly easy to come up with something that doesn't get annoying fast when it comes out of a telephone speaker :-P |
| 23:08.12 | Morgret | Just found xoo-0.7 in Portage |
| 23:08.37 | mjr | wansti, I had an ice-cream truck ring tone once, because that one doesn't _get_ annoying |
| 23:08.46 | noidd | there is a neo1973 skin on the un-official wiki |
| 23:08.51 | noidd | for xoo |
| 23:09.12 | pjz | sweet |
| 23:09.18 | stefan_schmidt | Morgret: If you like to look it like a neo use the skin: http://www.datenfreihafen.org/~stefan/OpenMoko/neo1973-xoo-device.tar.bz2 |
| 23:09.41 | stefan_schmidt | heh, guys you're to fast for me |
| 23:09.57 | mickeyl | wansti: indeed. |
| 23:10.14 | mickeyl | the best sound i ever heard from a phone is the alarm tone on the new sony ericsson k800i |
| 23:10.22 | mickeyl | it's so sweet on the ears |
| 23:10.31 | mickeyl | i almost use it regularly instead of my old alarm clock |
| 23:10.49 | noidd | The most useless ringtone ever is on a blackberry |
| 23:10.56 | noidd | we use them on-call here at Time Warner |
| 23:11.06 | noidd | and it rings twice and then goes silent for the rest of the ring |
| 23:11.16 | noidd | useless for waking up an on-call UNIX geek |
| 23:12.09 | Morgret | Oh cool, thanks stefan, I'll grab that in a bit |
| 23:12.25 | *** join/#openmoko jtoy (n=jtoy@pool-72-93-172-89.bstnma.east.verizon.net) |
| 23:12.36 | wansti | lol mjr |
| 23:13.25 | Elrond | PirateHead - Some buttons are good. It makes it easy for me to andswer the phone without looking at it. :) |
| 23:14.42 | SpeedEvil | And I'd like the lower button on the face of the thing to be a stick. |
| 23:14.45 | SpeedEvil | 5-way. |
| 23:15.06 | Morgret | I'm used to 80 buttons on my Nokia Communicator ... just 2 buttons is going to be a challange ;-) |
| 23:15.40 | mickeyl | yeah |
| 23:15.42 | mickeyl | and tbh |
| 23:15.44 | mickeyl | i don't like it |
| 23:15.50 | Elrond | tbh? |
| 23:15.53 | mickeyl | to be honest |
| 23:15.56 | RevTig | but two buttons makes it very efficient : you can have one labelled "Go Away" and the other "I'm Busy" :) |
| 23:15.56 | Elrond | Ahh. |
| 23:15.59 | mickeyl | i like the feel of real keys |
| 23:16.12 | mickeyl | today i played wii |
| 23:16.25 | mickeyl | and they have a vibrator in the controllers which is active if you point over a button |
| 23:16.27 | mickeyl | i like that |
| 23:16.28 | stefan_schmidt | mickeyl: Great toy |
| 23:16.32 | mickeyl | but i'm afraid it kills battery life |
| 23:16.37 | Morgret | Neo#2 should have 3 accelerometers :P |
| 23:16.37 | Elrond | I start to feel outdated with all your tlas... ;) |
| 23:16.39 | mickeyl | (so said the low level guy) |
| 23:16.49 | SpeedEvil | It's probably cheaper to electrocute the user. |
| 23:16.53 | SpeedEvil | Powerwise. |
| 23:16.57 | mickeyl | heh |
| 23:17.07 | SpeedEvil | Well - tingle. |
| 23:17.21 | SpeedEvil | Could be a killer app. |
| 23:17.26 | Morgret | lol |
| 23:17.43 | xorAxAx | mickeyl: so the next rev needs big caps and inductive energy transmission |
| 23:17.58 | mickeyl | yeeeah |
| 23:18.01 | mickeyl | i make sure it does |
| 23:18.02 | Elrond | neo_v2 with electro-chocker, so you can go in the night to the parking house. Yes. ;) |
| 23:18.06 | mickeyl | (if i'm going to be involved...) |
| 23:18.18 | mjr | which reminds me, mickeyl, if one hooks up a bt keyboard, will your default apps take input from that too, or should that be a todo? :] |
| 23:18.23 | noidd | actually - if I had a choice of any additional sensor on Neov2 it would be a fingerprint sensor. |
| 23:18.26 | xorAxAx | mickeyl: i mean the wii :) |
| 23:18.29 | mickeyl | mjr: definitly a todo. but we want that! |
| 23:18.34 | mickeyl | xorAxAx: oh right :) |
| 23:18.36 | SpeedEvil | Fingerprint sensors done right are interesting. |
| 23:18.36 | Morgret | Yep. Wifi, a whole row of buttons, 3 accelometers, inductive charging, and an espresso fitting. |
| 23:18.38 | noidd | Forgot locking your phone with a pin number ... |
| 23:18.45 | variant | Morgret: lol |
| 23:18.45 | SpeedEvil | They can do a joystick |
| 23:19.02 | SpeedEvil | you just read the sensor like an optical mouse using the finger as a 'surface' |
| 23:19.02 | variant | vga output too please |
| 23:19.09 | mjr | ah well, sleep now, g'work day ;) |
| 23:19.10 | noidd | You could even switch profiles depending on the user who touches the phone |
| 23:19.18 | noidd | swicth email accts, calenders etc |
| 23:19.24 | SpeedEvil | Also, you can have per-finger switching. |
| 23:19.27 | variant | noidd: thats some good arguments |
| 23:19.37 | mickeyl | sleeping is a good idea |
| 23:19.38 | Morgret | Graphics can be done via USB, no need for VGA port. Too big anyway |
| 23:19.40 | mickeyl | g'night guys |
| 23:19.42 | noidd | Hell - I could use my left index for personal and my middle finger for business :-D |
| 23:19.54 | noidd | later mickeyl |
| 23:19.59 | *** join/#openmoko Tv (n=tv@206-72-65-12.dsl.dock.net) |
| 23:20.02 | RevTig | I suppose it does open the door to social GPS based games.. I know some of the gps devices have a "snake" like game, what if you had two players and player one had to guide player two around a virtual maze with the location of player two being determinded by GPS |
| 23:20.06 | variant | Morgret: what about my printer? it;s parralel port only |
| 23:20.08 | variant | ;) |
| 23:20.17 | Morgret | variant: Bluetooth |
| 23:20.25 | Elrond | noidd - DNA detectors, like in all those scifi movies. ;o) |
| 23:20.28 | SpeedEvil | RevTig: Cliffs = lawsuits. |
| 23:21.02 | noidd | Elrond: DNA detectors don't differenciate between fingers. |
| 23:21.10 | RevTig | SpeedEvil, :) "Do not use within 500m of anything you can fall into, stumble onto or end up in a legally binding contract with |
| 23:21.11 | RevTig | :) |
| 23:21.21 | noidd | haha RevTig - that's hillariuos |
| 23:21.26 | noidd | back tomorrow |
| 23:21.28 | SpeedEvil | Wave. |
| 23:21.30 | noidd | y'all have a good evening |
| 23:21.35 | RevTig | night night :) |
| 23:21.36 | Morgret | cya |
| 23:25.54 | *** join/#openmoko ninHer (n=ninHer@unaffiliated/ninher) |
| 23:26.36 | RevTig | right night all. |
| 23:26.39 | *** part/#openmoko RevTig (n=Tig@82.153.215.237) |
| 23:28.11 | Elrond | Huh. Everyone running away. |
| 23:28.20 | Elrond | And I still haven't got a handheld gps. ;) |
| 23:28.39 | Morgret | You know, with the rate of change of technology, by the time of release of #2, it's going to have to have a high res screen and 3D acceleration. All the pundits are saying interactive is the future of mobile tech. |
| 23:29.37 | wansti | http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0019680/tmp/sms_gm015.ogg |
| 23:29.48 | wansti | very simple and easy on the ears :-) |
| 23:32.39 | stefan_schmidt | wansti: Not bad. A little bit to 'church' for me. :) |
| 23:34.26 | wansti | heh |
| 23:39.37 | xkr47 | one could run that through a distortion filter to get a c64 version of sms_gm015.ogg :) |
| 23:39.51 | *** join/#openmoko koen|gprs (n=koen@212.41.157.237) |
| 23:40.10 | wansti | xkr47: a mobile phone speaker is a perfectly good distortion filter :-P |
| 23:40.19 | xkr47 | :D |
| 23:48.26 | variant | wansti: what a truely awfull message tone |
| 23:48.27 | variant | :P |
| 23:51.37 | wansti | variant: still trying out different things |
| 23:51.59 | wansti | at this early stage, even destructive criticism is helpful :-P |
| 23:52.34 | variant | wansti: that ring tone would make me smash rather than read.. |
| 23:52.35 | variant | :) |
| 23:53.04 | wansti | depending on the contents of the SMS, you might thank me for that later :-) |
